Voltaire, Voltaire and again Voltaire.

[M0JFK]

Voltaire... "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

A little quote moderators should bare in mind when closing/locking a thread. Especially when it is a thread that is a critique of someone in the alternative media like AJ of PP.

Censorship as no place on PA and more so for the feeble excuse the (Is AJ contelpro) was closed/locked out for.

I have noticed (quite a lot) that where moderators operate (on any website) that censorship often runs hand in glove with them.

Moderators tend to get drunk on their power and go overboard and you find sooner or later that it is the petty actions of the moderator that inevitably kill's the site.

Or is it just me and the bit of Anarchist in me from my old Sex Pistols days?

[ZooLife]

Copy and past, Sierra?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82642-No-criticism&p=966291&viewfull=1#post966291

[Bill Ryan]

Voltaire... "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

A little quote moderators should bare in mind when closing/locking a thread. Especially when it is a thread that is a critique of someone in the alternative media like AJ of PP.

Censorship as no place on PA and more so for the feeble excuse the (Is AJ contelpro) was closed/locked out for.

I have noticed (quite a lot) that where moderators operate (on any website) that censorship often runs hand in glove with them.

Moderators tend to get drunk on their power and go overboard and you find sooner or later that it is the petty actions of the moderator that inevitably kill's the site.

Or is it just me and the bit of Anarchist in me from my old Sex Pistols days?


Thanks for the quote and the thread! I heartily endorse it... to quite a large extent.

Allow me to expand on that.

Where the lines are drawn are (for me) not about WHAT is said — but HOW it's said.

For instance, I personally consider all views which take the idea of a Flat Earth seriously to be highly flawed. I simply don't participate in those threads (and there are a few here)... I consider them a distraction from many more important issues.

But if one of the scientists among us then were to start waging war on the poor Flat Earther, calling him or her [maybe] stupid, moronic, uneducated, intellectually challenged, or much worse — fill in your own gaps! :) — then that is NOT okay, and I do NOT defend a person's right to be abusive, arrogant, crass or belittling of honest others.

[Bill Ryan]

------

And, invoking Voltaire, let me explain/share a little more. :bigsmile:

Here's part of the forum that no members see.... the applications. All of you reading this will be aware that we do not accept everybody. But would Voltaire insist that we allow everyone into the forum to say whatever they like? (That's a GOOD rhetorical question, by the way.)

Sometimes an applicant member will, with genuinely admirable honesty and transparency, declare why they want to join the forum... and cite that they are a passionate Fundamentalist Christian and we much all know the Truth; or they're a diehard solipsist (someone who believes that everything that exists is a figment of one person's imagination — presumably YOU, the reader (the only one there is!) reading this :) ); or they are a racist neo-Nazi (we get those, occasionally); or, of course, Flat Earthers who believe that every word that any authority has ever told them is by definition, a lie.

And even one or two people who seem to be literally insane, or whose application is filled with abuse. We get those, too. Members never see any of this. I often think I'd like to share some of them (some of them are as truly moving and inspiring as others are dreadful)... but of course, we cannot.

We do NOT allow those people free access to the forum to say their piece. We gently decline them. That's why the forum membership has the quality it has.

It'd be very nice if the world was different... but at this stage in humanity's journey, sadly, it's the way it is.

Speed the day when no moderators are necessary on a forum except to handle routine administration... or when applications are no longer necessary, because every human being is wise, stable, loving and wonderful. But we're just not there yet.

[darthtoaster]

I recently watched the Tom Campbell interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump thanks to a link here. Thank you BTW to who posted that.

Consciousness decays if entropy increases. Thriving conscious systems must replace entropy with order to maintain or thrive. This would apply with forums just as any other system composed of consciousness. Those who have been in the forum business know this truism. Fighting and unruly conversation in place of ordered, polite discussion are forum killers. Order is a must ... just the way it is.

[Bill Ryan]

------

And even more. :)

Sometimes, the moderators act when the agenda/ interest/ drum-a-member-wants-to-beat makes its appearance AFTER the application has been accepted... and we accepted them based on missing or misleading information. Then, we invoke the Retrospective Rule — one I invented myself, and encourage all the rest of the team to adopt as an aid to decision-making.

The Retrospective Rule asks: if we'd known [such-and-such] about this member when they submitted their application, would we have accepted them?If the answer is No, then we may ask them to leave. In other words... retrospectively decline their application, even though they are already a member.

[ZooLife]

Where the lines are drawn are (for me) not about WHAT is said — but HOW it's said.


I get what you are saying and understand the reasoning.

Is that why either one of the recent threads were close? How it was said and not so much the content of information?

If that is the case I must have not read every word that lead to the locking of the thread(s).

[Troy Martin]

You know, god is the source of karma/soul damage. It's the way a temporal being parents a temporal being. Karma slows down or stops people when they are unethical, unloving, or untruthful. Its a way of being responsible for your creation of a space and in god's case, the universe. So if we create or manage a space, it is a sense of responsibility and act of love to do the same as god and restrict unethical, unloving or untruthful actions and in a place like a forum things like social engineering can happen and that is a power and force that need not be. So I would not call this censorship but rather an act of ethical social responsibility.

[ThePythonicCow]

Voltaire... "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

A little quote moderators should bare in mind when closing/locking a thread. Especially when it is a thread that is a critique of someone in the alternative media like AJ of PP.

Censorship as no place on PA and more so for the feeble excuse the (Is AJ contelpro) was closed/locked out for.



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82642-No-criticism&p=966291&viewfull=1#post966291

Censorship is a frequent criticism of moderations on this forum, and I suppose on other moderated forums.

I am beginning to form a different view of such criticisms and such moderations.

Sometimes we (any of us) have clear and perceptive awareness of something; sometimes we don't. Sometimes we accept our limited awareness of something that we'd rather understand better and sometimes we endeavor to change or to deny our inadequate awareness. Much of life (mine anyway) seems energized by a search for better understanding, whether of one little line of computer code or of cosmic awareness, and much in between. So far, so good ... or at least so human.

The denials become more "risky". If we deny by shutting out, ignoring, paying no mind to, something we're not choosing to understand better for now, that's a potentially more confined response (though avoiding understanding why one's marriage or parenting isn't working well effects others too.) Not quite so good, but perhaps at least of limited harm to the "rest of us".

Mahatma Gandhi's famous quote applies here in an odd way: 'First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.' In the present case that I am considering here, at first we ignore that which we don't understand, then we ridicule it, then we fight it, and then we understand.

It's the fighting stage that presents the more obvious risks to others. Sometimes the fighting turns inward on one's self - overwhelming thoughts of one's own worthlessness and failings can be deadly. Sometimes the fighting turns outward, commonly as projections onto others. That which we adamantly refuse to see within ourselves we sometimes project onto others, angrily or nastily rejecting (what we see as) their failings. That can become dangerous, though not always. A three year old's temper tantrum likely presents little physical risk to a strong and healthy parent (though a lamp might get broken.) Some raging projections are more dangerous, potentially deadly or dispiriting to those around one. But if simply that, many of us can protect ourselves, and chuckle with amused awareness that Alex Jones is off on one of his rants again, acknowledging that there might be some truth, and some confusion, deception or oversimplification, to his words.

In the world of words, whether spoken in person or written on a forum or elsewhere (words come in many forms), one of the more serious dangers occurs when the words are shaped so as to covertly draw in others to the confusion, hostility and projected denial . Words can become like the improvised explosive devices (IED roadside bombs) that have killed and wounded so many in the Empire's so many foreign wars. Their actual potential for damage can be hidden in innocuous phrasing, drawing in the listener unawares to their confusion, hostility and projected denial.

That is the common role of neuro-linguistic-programming (NLP - see the link above to Sierra's words in my quote from ZooLife.)

Such covert projection of hostile denial of understanding is harmful to this forum, to our purpose here, and to those of us here who and when we get caught up in such. We, this forum's moderators, endeavor to remove such, like weeding a garden. If a particular member persists in such, we moderators too will persist, however far necessary.

Just as keeping toxins and poisons out of the food we share is not trying to starve people, similarly keeping persistent misunderstanding that is projected using harmful and covert means is not trying to censor people.

If you want to consume glyphosate, fluoride, heavy metals, or a vast array of other toxins, that's essentially your problem. But if you persist in trying to sneak large quantities of such toxins into the food eaten by myself or (as in this case) others about me, I'll do what I have to to stop you. If I managed a restaurant, and you persisted in poisoning the food we served, I'd not allow you in the kitchen; if I moderated a forum and you persisted in toxic posts after being asked to stop, I'd not allow you to post.

This is so regardless of the positions you took, even if (as in this case with Alex Jones) I happened to agree with a substantial portion of what you (or some former member) were (was) saying.

[Flash]

“Men use thought only as authority for their injustice, and employ speech only to conceal their thoughts.”
― Voltaire

Here it tells you what Voltaire really thought.

Your quote "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

is not Voltaire's but Hall's and you quoted it wrong too:


In The Friends of Voltaire Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"[4] (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself) as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.[5][6] Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.

Voltaire is our Sheakespeare for French people. He is very nuanced. He has to be quoted within context but mostly, rightly quoted.

I like this one from Voltaire yet better, in the context of this thead


Les opinions ont plus causé de maux sur ce petit globe que la peste et les tremblements de terre.

Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.

Letter to Élie Bertrand (5 January 1759).

[Lancet]

self moderation and self censorship is often the best form of forum censorship.
even if one has to get a point of view across, one need not be crude.
that is why we have english and literature, proses, quips and quotes- to get the message across elegantly.
i think most forumers will understand if you have a beef with a particular issue, you can express it and give your reasoning/conclusions.

there is also an "edit" button... if you have typed something wrongly in a fit of anger.....

JT

[Agape]

Copy and past, Sierra?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82642-No-criticism&p=966291&viewfull=1#post966291




Would the world be a better place if Alex didn't exist? My answer is no... he's woken up literally millions of people. If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory. :)


It's side stepping
merely suggest
It's pretty clear that myself, and the others here
not address the facts
merely saying
same sad, dismissive
merely a way
dismiss any actual, valid
just shrug off
just as dismissive
completely disregards
in no way addresses
those of us
manipulation
very obvious tactics
We are doing something
We are attempting
rest of the herd
We are attempting
obvious deception
sold to masses
We are digging
those psychological tactics
in fact, Bill,
even based
clearly designed
anger and hostility
you dodged
At no point
the clear psychological
the tactics used
steer and manipulate
beyond easy to fool
psychology of the masses
beyond easy to control
understand how to exploit
control society
really bad
ridiculously over-emoting, disingenuous, painfully bad
I find it alarming
obvious corruption and deception
so easily deceived
same exact tactics
I find it alarming
so easily swayed
clearly not
poisoned



There are other French poets whose art paraphrases slogans and what you call NLP these days ( and ... I have very little taste for them personally ...). Similar to Alex Jones , I don't think that it is how language should be used , especially not in public media that serve to educate and 'enlighten' masses .

I don't think that A.D. was referring or answer Bill in his post , he was clearly paraphrasing Alex Jones . Anyone who has listened to Alex for 5 minutes at least would find out .

But that's unless this is how 'you talk' . It may be about 'your mass entertainment' that is not my mass entertainment .
I actually have issues with this times to times , disability to tolerate people who are being too loud or too rude . It's almost rule of thumb that many of them have hearing disability in early old age or diagnosed with some kind of organic abnormality in their brain they had to live with for most life ,
something that is literally pushing on their brain stem and makes them 'perform' , instinctively , sometimes it's a gift other times curse .
There had probably been many other great artists in this category .

It's fairly hard for more sophisticated people accustomed to gentle kind of education to listen to Alex without feeling offended or disgusted at the same time .
Even if you're not one of the 'bastards' he refers to you don't want to address problems in the same manner .

Or maybe you do and that's what pumps your adrenaline and ultimately , does lead to fights even if you swear you're all for peace and non-violence .

Alex is certainly an artist - if not an actor - and his performing style looks quite more prominent way to me on how to gain 'trust' of the 'hearty' underprivileged class of people who are also genuinely fed up with the system .

In the times of old communist regimes in Europe and when they collapsed like apple eaten by worms from inside , it came to peoples knowledge how some of the most prominent public entertainers and speakers were actually 'payed shills' .
Funny as it sounds, the old generation would still continue to listen to them ..

I was too young to be told but later I understood why some of these 'painted entertainers' gave me a goose bumps and would do so now as well .
The point seems to be .. they pretend to be on 'peoples side' and may be governments best means on how to recognise and tag 'dissent' .

There's just no way to find out really ... until it's 'all over' . Btw , many if not all of these people , heavily involved with media and entertainment industry , exposed to electronics and strong EM fields everyday , alcohol parties and whatever makes the world of art 'real' ended up with cancers or other sudden and strange diseases in their old age . The system safely disposed of them , simple as that .

I'm sorry if someone would find this disconcerting and I'm not debating moderator actions . I think that A.D. clearly referred to Alex , not Bill , in his post .



:star:

[Flash]

Yes AD refered to Alex in his post, it is clear to me too Agape.

As for Alex style, have you listened to Fox News which is not about news? The style is pretty much the same in terms or screaming, loud voice, etc, although the content is different.

Alex may be paid shill, but I doubt it truly. He has this loud American style. I have seen it in hôtels with American tourists, while waiting in the lobby for their bus to the airport, I have seen it on the beach, I have seen it in their homes. It is an American style of talking/behaving. This is self centered at times, but efficient in America. It is culturally based. (sorry Americans, loud behavior is a no no no in many cultures). I think we may have to understand Americans in order to understand Alex.

It is funny because there is a British, the taxi driver, who swear like a dog and has a loud style too. But to me, this guy is gross, only because he is British and in England, this is not the usual style, in my views, yet it is quite similar to Alex. I have been culturally programmed:jaw:

[Agape]

Culturally programmed ... Flash ... no , I don't think it's exactly that way and from what I've experienced since tiny childhood , I'm sure I had a choice ,
and of course ... I'm thankful for having any such a choice ... and there were probably times in my life when I made entirely wrong decisions
but my inner compulsion towards gentleness is not something I can deceive easily .
And I have pretty good nose for authenticity ( and shills , = not necessarily all of them are 'payed ' or 'government' ) too .

I have hard times ( but adventurous ones ) in life descending to the lows , to touch the ground because I believe it's only right and necessary lesson about the biological and psychological nature of humanity ..
but can't say I'd have been 'of them' at the first place . I have no story of 'sheep' being couched by anyone and turned to easter lamb or butterfly ,
and if there are some , anyone around ( I'm sure there aren't ) who would think that they could have a 'way' with me thus ,
I think .. they'd have to deploy the head of CIA :ROFL: to make me do something .

I used to show these 'gents' out of the door as a kid even , including my own dad when he used 'rude word' .


It's simply the way how some of us experience ourselves from within, peace seeking, harmony and beauty loving creatures . I love maths for the same reason.
Beauty has to do with symmetry a lot in my opinion .

Yes I listened to the Fox News and know what you mean and well, I probably don't dream of Alex Jones but there are still about 299 million Americans out there ..some of whom are quite like us Flash


Happy Birthday :cake: :Music::flower:

[M0JFK]

You can always tell the genuine by their very nature. Examples to all are Bill Ryan, Former Sergeant Major Robert Dean and Jordan Maxwell. I am always glued to the laptop when I listen to the above...genunie people with no ego to feed.

[M0JFK]

“Men use thought only as authority for their injustice, and employ speech only to conceal their thoughts.”
― Voltaire

Here it tells you what Voltaire really thought.

Your quote "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

is not Voltaire's but Hall's and you quoted it wrong too:


In The Friends of Voltaire Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"[4] (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself) as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.[5][6] Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.

Voltaire is our Sheakespeare for French people. He is very nuanced. He has to be quoted within context but mostly, rightly quoted.

I like this one from Voltaire yet better, in the context of this thead


Les opinions ont plus causé de maux sur ce petit globe que la peste et les tremblements de terre.

Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.

Letter to Élie Bertrand (5 January 1759).



Dot the I's and cross the T's if you must...but people got the drift Flash.

[M0JFK]

Copy and past, Sierra?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82642-No-criticism&p=966291&viewfull=1#post966291




Would the world be a better place if Alex didn't exist? My answer is no... he's woken up literally millions of people. If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory. :)


It's side stepping
merely suggest
It's pretty clear that myself, and the others here
not address the facts
merely saying
same sad, dismissive
merely a way
dismiss any actual, valid
just shrug off
just as dismissive
completely disregards
in no way addresses
those of us
manipulation
very obvious tactics
We are doing something
We are attempting
rest of the herd
We are attempting
obvious deception
sold to masses
We are digging
those psychological tactics
in fact, Bill,
even based
clearly designed
anger and hostility
you dodged
At no point
the clear psychological
the tactics used
steer and manipulate
beyond easy to fool
psychology of the masses
beyond easy to control
understand how to exploit
control society
really bad
ridiculously over-emoting, disingenuous, painfully bad
I find it alarming
obvious corruption and deception
so easily deceived
same exact tactics
I find it alarming
so easily swayed
clearly not
poisoned



There are other French poets whose art paraphrases slogans and what you call NLP these days ( and ... I have very little taste for them personally ...). Similar to Alex Jones , I don't think that it is how language should be used , especially not in public media that serve to educate and 'enlighten' masses .

I don't think that A.D. was referring or answer Bill in his post , he was clearly paraphrasing Alex Jones . Anyone who has listened to Alex for 5 minutes at least would find out .

But that's unless this is how 'you talk' . It may be about 'your mass entertainment' that is not my mass entertainment .
I actually have issues with this times to times , disability to tolerate people who are being too loud or too rude . It's almost rule of thumb that many of them have hearing disability in early old age or diagnosed with some kind of organic abnormality in their brain they had to live with for most life ,
something that is literally pushing on their brain stem and makes them 'perform' , instinctively , sometimes it's a gift other times curse .
There had probably been many other great artists in this category .

It's fairly hard for more sophisticated people accustomed to gentle kind of education to listen to Alex without feeling offended or disgusted at the same time .
Even if you're not one of the 'bastards' he refers to you don't want to address problems in the same manner .

Or maybe you do and that's what pumps your adrenaline and ultimately , does lead to fights even if you swear you're all for peace and non-violence .

Alex is certainly an artist - if not an actor - and his performing style looks quite more prominent way to me on how to gain 'trust' of the 'hearty' underprivileged class of people who are also genuinely fed up with the system .

In the times of old communist regimes in Europe and when they collapsed like apple eaten by worms from inside , it came to peoples knowledge how some of the most prominent public entertainers and speakers were actually 'payed shills' .
Funny as it sounds, the old generation would still continue to listen to them ..

I was too young to be told but later I understood why some of these 'painted entertainers' gave me a goose bumps and would do so now as well .
The point seems to be .. they pretend to be on 'peoples side' and may be governments best means on how to recognise and tag 'dissent' .

There's just no way to find out really ... until it's 'all over' . Btw , many if not all of these people , heavily involved with media and entertainment industry , exposed to electronics and strong EM fields everyday , alcohol parties and whatever makes the world of art 'real' ended up with cancers or other sudden and strange diseases in their old age . The system safely disposed of them , simple as that .

I'm sorry if someone would find this disconcerting and I'm not debating moderator actions . I think that A.D. clearly referred to Alex , not Bill , in his post .



:star:

Exactly Agape...my only dislike of Alex is his interviewing techniques. He often interupts his guest and often puts words into their mouths if they are not saying what he wants them to say. Apart from that Alex does good work. On the other side if you look into his background and who funds his radio show you do tend to ask yourself if AJ can be a trusted truther.

[M0JFK]

One guy I did like was Mr Bill Cooper...God he was blunt and never would suffer fools. And even he too got it wrong at times but had the heart to admit it and correct himself with a sincere apology. And a very good example too of somone who gets bumped off for revealing to much truth. If his death was not engineered that day I will show my rear end on the tower of London.

[Carmody]

Violent, pugilistic,and purposely confused/mirrored/manipulated communications are not communications, they are attempts to dominate an exchange so that the one given side can hope to project their thoughts and desires into others.

It is not a form of communication. It is a form of violent injection of self into other.

The vast majority of the people out here and everywhere..are not of this type, and can be overwhelmed and/or driven off and away form the given communication forum or venue.

Fixing the world involves cutting off and cutting down those who attempt to dominate either people, locations, or, in this case....even something as simple as forum conversations.

One recognizes it, and they cut it off (with extreme prejudice) (no, that does not mean emotion), so that the given forum does not disintegrate into a mosh pit of external control by animalism disguised as conversation.

People are not required to rise up into a war like condition ----people who can do it, are required to recognize war mongers and cut them down.

To say otherwise, to get people to rise up, is to ask the world, in the minute and global inclusive...to be a war machine. Which is the very thing we are trying not to mirror into existence. That has been the plague of humanity for the history of humanity, the very thing that kills us, so..in essence..no. No pugilistic communications on the forum, it is totally contrary to the evolution and erudition of humanity.

Only in very specific and unusual circumstances would beating a human into confusion be capable of bringing enlightenment. That is not the norm. it is the extreme exception. So it cannot be the norm on a functioning forum. And if it is allowed to be... it, by force, by being the bull in a china shop, it overreaches and steps on everything and becomes the norm.... and the war machine the injected 'control by enabling confusion machine', the contrarian rises -in violence, and we are back to where we started. Injected confusion as a form of control of thought and conversation, which becomes societal control. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrarian)

Thank ye, but no.

[Cardillac]

Voltaire was very aware person and stated a lot of very insightful things; like start with: "in order to find out who rules over you just find out who you are not allowed to criticize"- then enter Israel...

ohh, forget it...

Larry

[Gaia]

“Men use thought only as authority for their injustice, and employ speech only to conceal their thoughts.”
― Voltaire

Here it tells you what Voltaire really thought.

Your quote "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

is not Voltaire's but Hall's and you quoted it wrong too:


In The Friends of Voltaire Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"[4] (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself) as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.[5][6] Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.

Voltaire is our Sheakespeare for French people. He is very nuanced. He has to be quoted within context but mostly, rightly quoted.

I like this one from Voltaire yet better, in the context of this thead


Les opinions ont plus causé de maux sur ce petit globe que la peste et les tremblements de terre.

Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.

Letter to Élie Bertrand (5 January 1759).



''L'écriture est la peinture de la voix'' ''Les beaux esprits se rencontrent'' Merci mon amie :)

[Project_Buggy_Beach]

One of my favorite Voltaire quotes, "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." -Voltaire

[ZooLife]

Alex may be paid shill, but I doubt it truly. He has this loud American style. I have seen it in hôtels with American tourists, while waiting in the lobby for their bus to the airport, I have seen it on the beach, I have seen it in their homes. It is an American style of talking/behaving. This is self centered at times, but efficient in America. It is culturally based. (sorry Americans, loud behavior is a no no no in many cultures). I think we may have to understand Americans in order to understand Alex.


I do not believe you have even seen even half of America by your statement. I can guarantee you that your generality is invalid. I am born and raised in American, traveling extensively in the same.

Is 'some' Americans that way? Definitely. But it is not the norm, definitely not the norm.

[dianna]

Alex may be paid shill, but I doubt it truly. He has this loud American style. I have seen it in hôtels with American tourists, while waiting in the lobby for their bus to the airport, I have seen it on the beach, I have seen it in their homes. It is an American style of talking/behaving. This is self centered at times, but efficient in America. It is culturally based. (sorry Americans, loud behavior is a no no no in many cultures). I think we may have to understand Americans in order to understand Alex.


I do not believe you ... even [understand] America[s] by your statement.

Agreed. As an American living in Canada for the last 20 years, I can tell you I prefer the "warm" "open" "unreserved" "honest" nature of the people where I come from (and it seems to be the consensus of many immigrants here) to the "reserved" "cold" "condescending" "Milli Vanilli" speak/way of the natives that I have come across here (are all Canadians like this ... NO! ... it is a stereotype that I have experienced ... in the particular city I live in)

[Sierra]

I'm sorry if someone would find this disconcerting and I'm not debating moderator actions . I think that A.D. clearly referred to Alex , not Bill , in his post .


Yes AD refered to Alex in his post, it is clear to me too Agape.

Wow... I respectfully disagree Flash, Agape. I believe he is addressing Bill, and Bill's opinion throughout the entire post.

What I see: A.D. is explaining here, how Bill and his opinion are wrong about AJ, he even refers to Bill by name below. Which is fine, one can disagree respectfully with others, but that is not what happened here. He sets Bill up with a question:






@ Bill Ryan... I have a serious question for you. What are your thoughts on this type of behavior and mannerism in this yt clip below? ]

Not smart (at all). :) Bill agrees with A.D.'s opinion of the four minute clip and goes on to provide the balance of his opinion

Remember, though, he's on air, 100% live and in real time, for 1,000 hours a year. It's quite easy, with a little patience, to pick out four and a half minutes like this.

One could also compile MANY more minutes when he's at his inspiring, balanced, informative best. In Myers-Briggs terms, he's a high-volume ENFP. His passion goes with his personality, and fuels all his work. It's all a package.

Here's an equally serious quesation (to all reading this): What are YOU doing to inspire/educate/inform people of the perils we're in? (And those perils, many of which he describes pretty clearly, are REAL.)

Would the world be a better place if Alex didn't exist? My answer is no... he's woken up literally millions of people. If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory. :)

A.D. ignores the answer, the why, the explanation that Bill gives for his opinion. A.D. goes directly to how his four minute extraction is the only evidence that should be used to formulate an opinion of AJ.

A.D. says:
It's side stepping the discussion at hand to merely suggest that if you don't like him, don't listen to him. Telling Bill he is merely sidestepping the discussion. It's pretty clear that myself, and the others here trying to point out that tactics used by Jones are deceptive and he's not what he says he is, don't listen to him any more. A.D. says no one should listen to AJ.

Fox News, which has been the number one news network for years now for example, is blatant, transparent propaganda used to steer and manipulate the masses. When pointing out the tactics and deceptions Fox News uses to achieves its ends, it's very easy to dismiss that reality and not address the facts by merely saying "well if you don't like it just go watch some other news channel".Bill is dismissing reality. A.D. misquotes Bill entirely, and conflates Bill's opinion with the tactics and deceptions Fox News uses, because Bill dismisses the facts, and, has the attitude of "well if you don't like it just go watch some other news channel".

That is the same sad, dismissive argument people use when you point out the corruption and deception of America. "If you don't like it, go live somewhere else". Bill uses sad, dismissive arguments, and tells people to live somewhere else. That is not what Bill said. Bill said, "If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory." Which does nothing to address the corruption and deception. It's merely a way of saying "haters gonna hate" and dismiss any actual, valid criticism. Bill dismisses actual, valid criticism.

So to just shrug off the discussion A.D. again accuses Bill of shrugging off the discussion (Is it a discussion at this point? Respectful yet?) . that Jones and his tactics are designed to manipulate and steer the alternative media audience and scene by saying "if you don't like him, don't listen", is just as dismissive and completely disregards the discussion Bill is dismissive and completely disregards the discussion.at hand and in no way addresses the claims being made here that Jones is a controlled agent put in place to steer the alternative media scene as is evidenced by his actions, behavior and words. Bill ignores evidence, does not address claims.

As for your question about what any of us are doing to inform / inspire / educate others of the perils we're in... which is a bit of a backed handed way to say Jones is out there doing something, whereas his detractors are merely just complaining from the peanut gallery and doing nothing... those of us in this thread pointing out the reality of the great deception that is Jones, are attempting to educate and inform those reading this thread of the peril presented by the manipulation and corruption of the alternative media landscape. We are sounding alarm bells and trying to jump up and down and point out the very obvious tactics being used. We are doing something. We are attempting to help others from blindly running off a cliff with the rest of the herd. We are attempting to get people to open their eyes to the obvious deception being sold to masses of people. We are digging beneath the surface to show you the dirt, to show you the roots of the problem at hand.

And speaking of those psychological tactics, so far, no one has been able to argue against them... Says Bill dodges questions, when Bill actually gave his opinion, in fact, Bill, directly addressing Bill and his faults.when presented with the question if you think Alex's behavior, even based off a 4 minute sampling from 1000's of hours, isn't clearly designed to evoke anger and hostility, you dodged the question and said you just think it's "not smart" and then go on to say he's woken up millions and if you don't like it don't listen. At no point addressing the clear psychological manipulation of the viewer and the tactics used by Jones to steer and manipulate the landscape. You do what all Jones supporters do when confronted with the reality of his tactics and dismiss it as him just being "passionate" and look no deeper. Is the pot calling the kettle black re evoking anger and hostility, manipulating, steering, hello?

Snip...

I find it alarming that anyone who is doing any kind of investigative journalism, anyone who has abandoned mainstream journalism due to it's obvious corruption and deception and sought out the alternative media landscape in hopes to battle that corruption and shine light on the truth, can be so easily deceived and won over by the same exact tactics they saw being used in the mainstream media. Bill is again conflated with the mainstream media tactics, as one who will allow Avalon members to be deceived, because of his opinion of AJ.

I find it alarming Bill, that you who has to do very diligent discernment it vetting the people you interview, can be so easily swayed and won over by a man who is clearly not who he says he is.

Snip...

I don't think any of us would enjoy having our opinion addressed this way. Distorted with misquotes, sarcasm, contempt, and NLP tactics. It would be a violation of self, and spirit. It would hurt badly, mentally, and emotionally to be treated so. Bill has a tougher skin than most.

And yes, we moderate/censor, and breaking the guidelines did get A.D. banned, NOT his opinion of AJ. I'm sure many people have or have come to have the same opinion about AJ, as they gained in knowledge, and understanding. But holier than thou self righteous clubbing of people with a different opinion is not the way to conduct a conversation.

No, I am not perfect. Of course. No, the mod team is not perfect. Of course. There are always people who disagree with the banning of their friends. Of course. Or disagree with what we said about a situation. Of course. People disagree with what we don't say about a situation too. Of course. Nobody likes to be kept in the dark about a drama, but would you want your private issues published for all to see? All I can say is the team of volunteers keeping the lights on at Avalon do the very best they can, with the information they have to work with.

I know many, many people appreciate Avalon is a moderated/censored forum, because a large proportion of our apps say this is the first forum they've found where they are coming home at last to people of the same experiences, interests, desire to develop... And where people are NOT allowed to act as A.D. did, and as so many alternative forums allow. It is destructive, and damaging behavior that the guidelines attempt to ameliorate. That *is* the intent of moderation.

Regards, Sierra

[ThePythonicCow]

Wow... I respectfully disagree Flash, Agape. I believe he is addressing Bill, and Bill's opinion throughout the entire post.
Note also the title of A.D.'s last thread here: Closed Alex Jones Thread - for shame Project Avalon!!! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82640-Closed-Alex-Jones-Thread-for-shame-Project-Avalon---)

[Troy Martin]

Apart from that Alex does good work. On the other side if you look into his background and who funds his radio show you do tend to ask yourself if AJ can be a trusted truther.

Being that Alex repeatedly, on his show, tells people that no group or tax dollars funds his show. It's funded by the products on his site (health products, apparel, books, etc) and memberships. So who do you believe funds his show?

[Carmody]

I believe that Alex gets to chose who funds his show. That he gets to chose the advertisers.

Life is also tied to doing your own research and developing you own thoughts. People can only be protected so far. After a certain point, they are on their own. Parenting instincts are a good thing, but beyond a certain point, people have to deal with their own issues.

Note that 'enlightenment' as they call it, is purely an individual thing. If not, it would be a death.... not an upward trend in 'life'.

So, in logical premise, as analysis..one should not try to uplift everyone-as a group. All you can do is enable the conditions for an individual to uplift themselves. Even in that, one has to be careful to not do the work for people, to not create 'free rides on treadmills'. That would be the direction of bacteria, plants, instinct, and so on. That would be the retardation of growth.

If you uplift everyone, outside of their own efforts, that is the motion of the creation and enabling of a dead thing. That would contrary to the idea and reality of 'life', contrary to growth and growth within the given individualism.

That means we can all get there, but..no floaters. Everyone must work for it. No free rides.

Wake up, individually, or sink, individually. Within that context, rises the potential for the average whole. It really is that simple.

~~~~~~~

Elitist use of fear enables a group instinctual response, so people can be herded and remain or become as that of a commodity. The kind of thing we do to animals, or food, so to speak. A downturn away from intelligence and individuality.

Fear is used as it is the base controlling response pattern of an avatar or individualism vehicle called a human body. The most over-arching, the most thought shifting, thought coloring, thought disabling response of all. The most perfectly matched herd patterning, or instinctual non-individualizing animal response we have.

As we now know that cell phone use is making us more stupid, as it disables thought, it does not enable it..it 'treadmills' the mind, into a pattern. a pattern of constant gibberish. Growth is like physical workouts. The growth comes not from the workout, but from the rest period. The silence in the mind is the area and space of growth. That old enlightenment axiom, that one cannot add to a cup that is already full.

I have a smart phone but I have no desire to use it to make myself stupid. Most of the time it sits around with the battery removed, so it does not clutter my life into animal repetition patterning - which would move to making me stupid, via removing the silences that allow for the rise of individual thought. It should be obvious, for example, that attempts at being alive and growing, have no place for television in them.

In the same way, fear, as constant pressure..is a downturn away from developing intelligence, into a herd-like, controllable, animal mentality. One that really is making people more stupid, more malleable.

Think about it. It takes time, by hey.........it's a long term plan.

[kemo]

He was a right one wasn't he that Voltaire with those memorable one-liners of his. Not exactly funny, but I expect he had em hanging on every word expecting some new bon mots. Wonder if he got invited to parties much.