All Things Vegan!

[Constance]

I'd like to share some of my recipes here if that is okay with everyone? :heart:

I have this saying "Anything you can make that is non-vegan you can also make vegan"

I modify/adapt/embellish every recipe I come across that takes my fancy and I turn it into a vegan dish!

I find that if I do this, I never run out of ideas.

It keeps the family happy and me constantly creating new dishes.

I'm starting with ice cream because it is my favourite food of the moment and it is very easy to make.

We are now heading into an early summer and I am ready for icecream!

Constance's Black gold icecream

Ingredients:

125mls or half a cup of coconut nectar (you can replace this with any other liquid sweetener available to you ie rice syrup, agave nectar, maple syrup)

2 tablespoons of black sesame seed paste (black tahini)

1 cup of coconut milk (I make my own but if canned works for you, go for it)

1 tsp. vanilla powder (Or essence will do - for those who don't want alcohol in their vanilla, you can buy vanilla essence without alcohol)

Method:

For the coconut milk:

Make your coconut milk really thick - I used a ratio of 2 cups of shredded coconut to 3 cups of water and this comes out really creamy...
I use a high speed blender so if you don't have one of those, the best option is to buy canned coconut milk.

Here is a recipe for making coconut milk

http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2013/09/easy-homemade-coconut-milk-using-shredded-cocoonut/

Once you have the coconut milk ready, in a blender mix all the ingredients together. Pour ingredients into a container and freeze, remembering to mix every two hours :)

We make these into icy poles too for convenient eating.

http://www.justonecookbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Black-Sesame-Ice-Cream.jpg

[Akasha]

I'd like to share some of my recipes here if that is okay with everyone? :heart:

By all means! Sharing recipes was one of the main reasons for getting this thread going and this one sounds amazing!


.....remembering to mix every two hours :)

Are these the magic words of home-made ice-cream making (without an ice-cream maker)?

[Constance]

Are these the magic words of home-made ice-cream making (without an ice-cream maker)?

Excellent :clapping: I'll keep posting recipes whenever I get the opportunity.

And yes... :bigsmile: I don't have an icecream maker so all my recipes are for home-made ice cream without an ice cream maker!

[Noir]

Sorry, I found this around and... I couldn't resist.

[Akasha]

I just watched the following video and thought I'd share it. It highlights the fact that veggies (vegans and vegetarians) literally have more empathy than omnivores. The question as posed in the video is what came first, the chicken or the egg? In other words, were more empathic people more likely to become veggie or did their dietary change lead to the higher levels of empathy? Given the increase in veganism relative to population, I'd like to think that the evolution in consciousness is playing an unseen part in the transformation. Empathy will naturally be a by-product of conscious awareness.

2uXUsPMYSMA

[Akasha]

More breathtakingly insane parkour from vegan free runner and outspoken animals' advocate: the one, the only, Mr. Tim Shieff:

pNncoN145Fo

[bettye198]

On the subject of veganism, here is my own insight. I manage my husbands Advanced Nutritional Testing Practice, all holistic and energetic. We have actually had some vegans refuse the raw food organic supplements a century old because they include bovine DNA RNA and PMGs. Yet we are so quick to forget that we share similar DNA RNA and cellular responses with mammals. That was a God thing. To be vegan one would have to find a way to bring in B12 that is the factor for creating red blood cells in the gut as well as a healthy brain and nervous system. It combines with folate so many people wind up taking Folic Acid B12 as they are deficient. This is a big big deal. I am not a big advocate of meat, but what I do see with vegans is deficiencies. My family tried to go vegan for 3 mos. All three of us got sick and I am a great cook. We were forced into fake eggs and soy protein isolate. Well that ended quickly and then we got a whole lot smarter about what we put into our bodies. Plant based, organic eggs from roaming pasture chicks which are vital, coconut or MCT oils for brain and fatty acid formation, and rarely, some air chilled organic chicken or turkey and fruit nuts and seeds. I prefer to see whole foods as they are not made into something that resembles a food I used to eat.

[Akasha]

Hi Bettye and thanks for your input. I'd first like to address the following in your post.


…..We have actually had some vegans refuse the raw food organic supplements a century old because they include bovine DNA RNA and PMGs…..

Veganism is about not consuming any animal products, so the idea that "some" vegans refused supplements with bovine DNA just illustrates how conscious they were of their intake. All of those professing to be vegan should technically have abstained from your supplements if they had animal derivatives in them. Of course different folk are at different points on their journey of awareness into such matters and I'd suggest that aspect of your post reflects this.


…..To be vegan one would have to find a way to bring in B12…..

Vitamin B12 is certainly an issue for everyone, not just vegans. Livestock is increasingly given B12 injections (http://eerainuh.com/supplementation-of-vitamin-b12-in-cattle-and-sheep-to-prevent-deficiency/) as modern farming methods ensure the ongoing depletion of cobalt within pastures. Of course, with much of modern livestock not even seeing pasture, such supplementation is even more essential.

I can appreciate that with a return to more traditional farming methods such as those you mention, livestock would be less likely to need such supplementation, but factory farming has become the market standard because it is able to feed the omnivorous masses - a feat which pasture fed livestock agriculture simply doesn't have the space to do.


.....My family tried to go vegan for 3 mos. All three of us got sick and I am a great cook.....

In 2009, 1% of the US population was vegetarian or vegan. That figure has now risen to 5% (http://news.therawfoodworld.com/16-million-people-us-now-vegan-vegetarian/) with more than half of those being vegan. I'm managing it easily in Hungary (and I just had a blood test to prove it) which, compared to the US has a lousy vegan selection, so (and don't take this the wrong way but) how did you, as a "great cook" manage to fail at it when so many others are clearly succeeding? How did you go about it? What vegan food did you prepare which made you "get sick"? Your willingness to try it suggests if the problems could be highlighted and overcome, you'd still be doing it so maybe we could brainstorm you and your family back to a vegan diet, but this time one that works.

[Constance]

On the subject of veganism, here is my own insight.

From my own personal observations and research, the intelligent vegan aims to put back what is missing from their bodies because from what I can gather, we are all starting out nutritionally deficient before we even leave the womb.

The intelligent vegan eats whole, natural, organic and unprocessed foods, gets the mineral supplementation they need through having a diverse diet and they eliminate excesses of sugar, fat and protein.

There is such a variety and abundance of plant-based foods available. Some rich with fatty acids we need, some rich in minerals and others rich in vitamins.

There are trillions of different plants throughout all the world. All have different roles, all as diverse as we are.
Whilst I cannot name all plants with all the roles they play in our diet, I can attempt to group foods into six categories. Nuts, seeds, grains, fruit, vegetables and legumes.

I place a huge question mark around the whole subject of Vitamin B12 and the source of because I have friends who are long-term or life-long vegans with excellent B12 levels. They don't ever supplement. They seem to have a lifetime supply of it. Some of these friends are now in their seventies. How can this be?

Could it be that intergenerationally, the grandmother and mother had excellent B12 levels themselves and passed this on in-utero, providing a lifetime supply of B12?

Could it be that the very air itself contains vitamin B12 and they are efficiently up taking this source?

Could it be that their neural pathways remain switched on enough to allow the uptake of these B12 nutrients to be absorbed by the body?

Could it be the very synergic nature of their diet - the alchemy in itself creating the vitamin B12?

Could it be that by sheer nature of their diet on a spiritual level that the body, restored to its natural state is creating the vitamin B12?

Could it be that Vitamin B12 is created by the bacteria in soil and from the sheer volume of vegetables eaten they are receiving it from the microbes?

I started asking the same questions around minerals and vitamins in the body and the same questions applied starting in the reverse and then new questions emerged.

Could it be that we intergenerationally have become nutrient deficient due to a lack of nutrients in the soil and food we eat?

Could it be that our mothers were lacking in nutrients either through their diet or a lifetime of nutritional deficiencies so that there was nothing to pass on to in-utero that could be utilized?

Could it be that all the man-made chemicals received by the mother due to consuming a processed, GMO diet is passed on to the fetus?

Could it be that all the man-made chemicals found in the infant block or shut down those neural/elimination pathways that absorb the nutrients?

Could it be that the immunizations we have endured intergenerationally have shut down the pathways required for utilizing nutrients?

Could it be the birth trauma most suffer when born into an artificial environment that shuts down all the nutrient pathways we require to uptake nutrients?

I have been researching the work by Tony Wright - he may provide some more clues as to how we can revolutionize how we eat.

[Constance]

Anna Breytenbach, animal communicator - communicates with the great white shark consciousness.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTdlMC6NZU4

[Akasha]

.....I place a huge question mark around the whole subject of Vitamin B12 and the source of because I have friends who are long-term or life-long vegans with excellent B12 levels. They don't ever supplement. They seem to have a lifetime supply of it. Some of these friends are now in their seventies. How can this be?.....

I've been meat-free for 12 years or so now and vegan for getting on for 2 years and last month I had the inevitable vegan's B12 panic attack so in an effort to get some answers I watched Doug Graham (http://foodnsport.com/index.php) who essentially said it wasn't necessary provided one was eating organic fruit and vegetables:

M_0GcpVahr8

.....and then I watched Michael Greger (http://nutritionfacts.org/) say that supplementation was essential:

48IYo8XSGQM

.....so what to do?

Well, I came across a report by Cyanotech (http://www.cyanotech.com/pdfs/spirulina/spbul52.PDF), a spirulina grower which, while not as yet peer-reviewed, came up with some interesting results, namely that spirulina pacifica is a source of B12, so, given that symptoms of B12 deficiency normally takes several months if not years to manifest and given that spirulina is a well established super-food regardless of it's B12 content, I've bought a bag of the stuff in order to take it regularly for a bit and see how things go. I intend to wait a few months and then get my B12 levels tested and then report back so watch this space.

In the meantime, any personal B12 stories, good or bad, would be greatly appreciated and welcomed on this thread. Cheers.

[Akasha]

https://www.vegetarianbutcher.com/serverspecific/dvs/cache/img/1dbc136f7453c284713c80396d4d1f48cb2f58aa/Jaap_Slagersmes.jpg

Jaap Korteweg, winner of the Best Dutch Entrepreneur 2015 title for his development of plant based 'meat' shares his testimony at TED:

HMl6DaJ4Um0

[Pam]

.....I place a huge question mark around the whole subject of Vitamin B12 and the source of because I have friends who are long-term or life-long vegans with excellent B12 levels. They don't ever supplement. They seem to have a lifetime supply of it. Some of these friends are now in their seventies. How can this be?.....

I've been meat-free for 12 years or so now and vegan for getting on for 2 years and last month I had the inevitable vegan's B12 panic attack so in an effort to get some answers I watched Doug Graham (http://foodnsport.com/index.php) who essentially said it wasn't necessary provided one was eating organic fruit and vegetables:

M_0GcpVahr8

.....and then I watched Michael Greger (http://nutritionfacts.org/) say that supplementation was essential:

48IYo8XSGQM

.....so what to do?

Well, I came across a report by Cyanotech (http://www.cyanotech.com/pdfs/spirulina/spbul52.PDF), a spirulina grower which, while not as yet peer-reviewed, came up with some interesting results, namely that spirulina pacifica is a source of B12, so, given that symptoms of B12 deficiency normally takes several months if not years to manifest and given that spirulina is a well established super-food regardless of it's B12 content, I've bought a bag of the stuff in order to take it regularly for a bit and see how things go. I intend to wait a few months and then get my B12 levels tested and then report back so watch this space.

In the meantime, any personal B12 stories, good or bad, would be greatly appreciated and welcomed on this thread. Cheers.



I have been using methylcobalamin b12 supplement, which is vegan. It is also supposed to be the most readily absorbed and does not require the intrinsic factor for conversion as it is usable as it is.

[Akasha]

.....I have been using methylcobalamin b12 supplement, which is vegan. It is also supposed to be the most readily absorbed and does not require the intrinsic factor for conversion as it is usable as it is.

Thanks peterpam. You wouldn't happen to know what your B12 levels were like before supplementing would you?

[Akasha]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ElQ6uj_xmu0/Szdl-oNrhmI/AAAAAAAAA-w/LFQDbHcMogs/s640/avatavr-illuminati-blue-movies-hollywood-masons.jpg

https://explorers.org/uploads/James_Cameron_ECAD.jpg

Epic movie director, James Cameron (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000116/) lets the sustainability secret out of the bag in a recent interview with Fortune.com:


…..one of the things that gave me the most hope was when I realized what an enormous contributor the animal agriculture was to greenhouse gases. It’s 14.5%. It’s greater than the entire transportation sector combined, not by much, but all the tailpipe and smokestack emissions from ships and jet engines and everything on the planet combined is about 13.5%. So this is an area where we could make a big immediate change just by empowering people to make a change in their lifestyle and their behavior…..

Full interview here (http://fortune.com/2015/09/14/james-cameron-sustainable-food/).

[lake]

Nice thread.

And I have read it all, thank you.
Whats the quote ....

“If you have no other choice then you must eat us. But remember we are sentient just as you are. We love, feel and fear just as you do. Eat us if you must—but only if you must. We will know if your intent is sincere. And so we will harmonize with your intention and not be toxic to your fill.”
:clapping:

http://rattlereport.com/rattleberry/2014/2014-04-16

my empathy to you

[Akasha]

Nice thread.....

http://rattlereport.com/rattleberry/2014/2014-04-16

Hey Lake, thanks for your input and the link to that article. I enjoyed reading it and I've cut and pasted some of the bits which particularly jumped out at me.
Some of those bits mention 'archons': a term I don't personally acknowledge (for better or worse) in the sense of an exterior, malevolent, disembodied form of consciousness. Rather I see that energy signature as the lower aspect of ourselves, but hey that's just me, and I'd say the author's words still make sense even if such concepts are interchanged:


…..Any entity that wishes to cultivate a denser vibration within a societal construct would most certainly promote meat consumption.  And not just for meat’s sake- but for the brutality associated with it.  The industry doesn’t simply sell meat—they push it!  They exploit it, sexualize it and associated it with virility, masculinity and a host of other nonsensical things.  But those with vision can see through the disturbing machinations and elevate above it.  


We hear terms such as “Archons” and other supposedly malevolent entities that perhaps feed upon our aggression and fear.   If so, then war must certainly be a scrumptious buffet for them.   Now for some this is outlandish speculation.  Pure bunk!  I understand.  But I have felt this vibration called “Archon” and I know it’s real and I will not do its bidding.   And so I refuse to eat meat.  I will never go back to my former level of aggression.  In the modern world we have a choice and we have access to high-quality food that is vegan and vegetarian and it all tastes really good too.    The transition is liberating and enlightening.  And when one feels the internal strength associated with not needing meat anymore, it is uplifting and absolutely empowering.


When one accepts the slaughter of intelligent animals, then how far of a stretch is it really to accept the brutal slaughter of our own kind?   Does looking at torn and packaged ribs on a supermarket shelf somehow desensitize us to brutality?  Do we see the ground meat under a cellophane wrap and ever wonder how different it might be from our own?  Do we simply shrug our shoulders and dismiss these thoughts because they’re uncomfortable?  Do we simply shrug our shoulders and dismiss the horrors of war because it’s too uncomfortable?  How far do we go with the erosion of our awareness?  Where does this erosion lead us?  These are the sort of questions I ponder.  I’ve found this does not make for good dinner conversation…..

…..for my concern, meat consumption seems to compromise spiritual growth and psychic abilities.  By eating meat one seems always one step away from that first step toward enlightenment. 


The meat eater’s blood chemistry is necessarily different from the vegetarian.  There’s a surplus of specialized enzymes that aid in digestion depending if the diet is solely plant or meat based.  Since most people consume both plant and meat there are abundant enzymes to handle both challenges.  These differences manifest outwardly in the shape, size and what some would call the “scent” of the aura.   Yes, you are energetically influenced by what you eat and it illuminates through your aural expression.
 
Scent of the Aura
 
As I alluded to earlier, there seems to be a different kind of energy enveloping those who do not eat meat.  I see a different radiance in their skin and gentleness in their energetic persona.  I’m not able to directly see auras but I can sense them.  The vegetarian frequently (but not always) has the kind of aura that seems to fill a room.  They are happy and radiant.  Animals seem especially sensitive to this vibration and are frequently drawn to the energy of the vegetarian and vegan.

Some say the “scent” of the vegan is sweeter, perhaps because there are no byproducts of animal tissue metabolism emanating from their pores.  But this is not something I’ve personally experienced.  Maybe it’s true, maybe not….

…..When we feed upon the animal there’s an aspect that feeds within us.  The (Archons) take delight in our aggressiveness, cluttered consciousness and our clear disconnect with animals.  They also seem well aware of the long-term repercussions.  Such hostile energies serve as doorways and passages that lead into deeper and darker places.  So we pontificate over the violent and egregious acts of war as we cut the gizzard from a turkey and fling it in the trash.  In the meantime our children are absorbed in a surreal world of death culture, scandalous sex and mayhem onboard their TV and video games.  Since the oldest has been misbehaving you’re looking forward to the day he can enlist in the Army.  That’ll straighten him out.  And the beat goes on……  

…..So here’s the main point I’d like to make.  We’re not really carnivore—or if you prefer, omnivore.  For starters, a true omnivore would not cook their meat.  Rather strange when one thinks about it.  We’re the only species that does.  Must have been something the (Archons) tricked us into.  And do you fancy the smell of blood?  Not likely - so that’s not very omnivore of you.  Finally, does the idea of eviscerating a living and squealing pig appeal to you?  For a hungry wolf that is likely true.  But unless one is seriously deranged, the Human would be horrified by such an act.  And we certainly don’t have anywhere near the pH level in our stomachs that the omnivore wolf has.  It’s necessary of course, to kill the various parasites and toxic microbes embedded in the raw flesh.   In a sense, they “cook” their meat in a highly acidic stomach……

…..When you look in the eye of an animal, you just might see your own reflection.  We’re not so far apart really.  These beautiful entities will respond to your words and touch and will not judge you nor pass condemnation.   And though we hear from time to time how animals will occasionally bond with another species, Humans can bond with virtually any species— from hippos, rhinos and elephants to rabbits, tigers and bears.   Not only are we capable of loving them- they love us back…..

[Akasha]

Emily (Bite Size Vegan - website (http://bitesizevegan.com/) / Youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/BiteSizeVegan/featured)) has done an outstanding job of documenting the history of veganism from the earliest references of the lifestyle in ancient times through the middle ages and, just recently completed, the renaissance with the enlightenment and recent history planned to finish off the series very soon.

Enjoy:

BXlR8if5hok

wbfV5sbscFo

O7QpIUGs6Gk

[Pam]

.....I have been using methylcobalamin b12 supplement, which is vegan. It is also supposed to be the most readily absorbed and does not require the intrinsic factor for conversion as it is usable as it is.

Thanks peterpam. You wouldn't happen to know what your B12 levels were like before supplementing would you?


I'm sorry, Akasha, I don't have those numbers. What I do know is that I have had a life long tendency to be anemic and after I started with this B12 my hematocrit and hemoglobin levels have improved, which tells me that the B12 deficiency was probably the cause. Since I was not raised as a vegan or vegetarian I believe that I did not have the intrinsic factor and was probably deficient of B12 most of my life until I started with the methylcobalamin. So I think it really does do the trick.

[Akasha]

.....I have been using methylcobalamin b12 supplement, which is vegan. It is also supposed to be the most readily absorbed and does not require the intrinsic factor for conversion as it is usable as it is.

Thanks peterpam. You wouldn't happen to know what your B12 levels were like before supplementing would you?


I'm sorry, Akasha, I don't have those numbers. What I do know is that I have had a life long tendency to be anemic and after I started with this B12 my hematocrit and hemoglobin levels have improved, which tells me that the B12 deficiency was probably the cause. Since I was not raised as a vegan or vegetarian I believe that I did not have the intrinsic factor and was probably deficient of B12 most of my life until I started with the methylcobalamin. So I think it really does do the trick.

There was never any doubt in my mind as to its efficacy. I was just wondering if you needed it or not based on actual numbers. In other words, were the levels actually low before supplementing but it seems pretty clear that, even without those stat's, it's obviously solved what was a clear, defined problem. I guess the question is if you had a life long tendency to be anemic anyway, was the vegan diet actually an issue? Obviously I wouldn't expect an answer to this question since it would involve coming off the stuff again to form a 'baseline level'. Just pondering...

[iamnoone]

Funny timing! Had to start a round of B12 shots on Thursday. Thanks for this. Chemical free seems to be synonymous with veganism but I'm not of that mind myself. I read the start of the thread Akasha but not the middle but I wanted to say thank you! I was certainly spiritually inspired to become vegan. Eating meat just no longer felt right. I was vegetarian for years but have now transitioned to vegan. Like you I've been vilified for my choices amongst the awakening community. I sought support elsewhere but most of the vegans I met were pretenders, just trying to be 'cool'. The reality is that meat eating is cruel and heartless and evil and anyone arguing otherwise is in the grips of cognitive dissonance and they will fight hard but there is no moving beyond that. There's no debate necessary. Murder is murder. And what the body was built to do or what it needs is superfluous. There are nutritional require that cannot be met through a complete plant based diet. That's okay. I don't need to prove otherwise to anyone. I don't need to prove that I can live on plants alone. I can't. But we do live in age of science and what the earth can't provide, science can. I'll take my iron tablets and have my b12 shots because that's what I need to do to live free.

And if anyone's interested, watch Cowspiracy. We are trapped in a conspiracy - to eat meat and the whole world is falling for it.

Also, research is proving more and more that meat eating is fast becoming the major cause of cancer. Google it!

[Noir]

Well, I came across a report by Cyanotech (http://www.cyanotech.com/pdfs/spirulina/spbul52.PDF), a spirulina grower which, while not as yet peer-reviewed, came up with some interesting results, namely that spirulina pacifica is a source of B12, so, given that symptoms of B12 deficiency normally takes several months if not years to manifest and given that spirulina is a well established super-food regardless of it's B12 content, I've bought a bag of the stuff in order to take it regularly for a bit and see how things go. I intend to wait a few months and then get my B12 levels tested and then report back so watch this space.

In the meantime, any personal B12 stories, good or bad, would be greatly appreciated and welcomed on this thread. Cheers.

I would advice you trying with yeast and nutritional yeast instead of spirulina. Nutritional yeast in one of the best sources of B12 and most naturals.
Several studies has suggested that the B12 in Spirulina is not really B12 but a vitamin that's very similar. The problem is that these substance cannot be used by the body like the "real" B12 and if you ingest this B12like vitamin from spirulina it will stay in your body (for a long time) and block the receptors that enable the absorbtion of the real B12 instead. Thus you cannot absorb the B12 even if you were supplementing.

Besides spirulina is an algae/sea weed that has extremely strong tendencies to suck all the toxins possible from its environment. Wich is in itself a good thing, but if the air or water were the algae was cultivated was slightly contaminated you are probably puting that into your system as well. It is risky.

Love to you all.

[Akasha]

Funny timing! Had to start a round of B12 shots on Thursday. Thanks for this. Chemical free seems to be synonymous with veganism but I'm not of that mind myself. I read the start of the thread Akasha but not the middle but I wanted to say thank you! I was certainly spiritually inspired to become vegan. Eating meat just no longer felt right. I was vegetarian for years but have now transitioned to vegan. Like you I've been vilified for my choices amongst the awakening community. I sought support elsewhere but most of the vegans I met were pretenders, just trying to be 'cool'. The reality is that meat eating is cruel and heartless and evil and anyone arguing otherwise is in the grips of cognitive dissonance and they will fight hard but there is no moving beyond that. There's no debate necessary. Murder is murder. And what the body was built to do or what it needs is superfluous. There are nutritional require that cannot be met through a complete plant based diet. That's okay. I don't need to prove otherwise to anyone. I don't need to prove that I can live on plants alone. I can't. But we do live in age of science and what the earth can't provide, science can. I'll take my iron tablets and have my b12 shots because that's what I need to do to live free.

And if anyone's interested, watch Cowspiracy. We are trapped in a conspiracy - to eat meat and the whole world is falling for it.

Also, research is proving more and more that meat eating is fast becoming the major cause of cancer. Google it!

Thanks for your frank and honest post there iamnoone and welcome to Avalon. I have to say that I agree with your statement regarding the cold reality of meat. As Gary Francione has repeatedly said, veganism is the moral baseline. Folk can take that or leave it but the soul can't be fooled by the ego: murder is always murder.

[Akasha]

As I promised in the OP of this thread I won't bring my 'plant-based' opinions into other folk's threads but I will do so on this thread so I'm taking advantage of that privilege now.

The thread or rather the Youtube video in question is this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86262-lonely-homeless-man&p=1012939&viewfull=1#post1012939). I was touched by it as much as many others right up until the point when they started tucking into what was clearly animal flesh. At that point the focus of my compassion was diverted to the nameless but intelligent creature, the murder of whom that poor homeless man had, with clearly as much thought as he could muster, just invested in. Just another lump of flesh in the ongoing seemingly perpetual holocaust and yet the vast majority don't even notice or acknowledge the horror of it…..but I noticed it.

[iamnoone]

Funny timing! Had to start a round of B12 shots on Thursday. Thanks for this. Chemical free seems to be synonymous with veganism but I'm not of that mind myself. I read the start of the thread Akasha but not the middle but I wanted to say thank you! I was certainly spiritually inspired to become vegan. Eating meat just no longer felt right. I was vegetarian for years but have now transitioned to vegan. Like you I've been vilified for my choices amongst the awakening community. I sought support elsewhere but most of the vegans I met were pretenders, just trying to be 'cool'. The reality is that meat eating is cruel and heartless and evil and anyone arguing otherwise is in the grips of cognitive dissonance and they will fight hard but there is no moving beyond that. There's no debate necessary. Murder is murder. And what the body was built to do or what it needs is superfluous. There are nutritional require that cannot be met through a complete plant based diet. That's okay. I don't need to prove otherwise to anyone. I don't need to prove that I can live on plants alone. I can't. But we do live in age of science and what the earth can't provide, science can. I'll take my iron tablets and have my b12 shots because that's what I need to do to live free.

And if anyone's interested, watch Cowspiracy. We are trapped in a conspiracy - to eat meat and the whole world is falling for it.

Also, research is proving more and more that meat eating is fast becoming the major cause of cancer. Google it!

Thanks for your frank and honest post there iamnoone and welcome to Avalon. I have to say that I agree with your statement regarding the cold reality of meat. As Gary Francione has repeatedly said, veganism is the moral baseline. Folk can take that or leave it but the soul can't be fooled by the ego: murder is always murder.

Thanks for the welcome. At some point you just have draw a line in the sand and move on. I have been on Avalon for long but I've been in this space for decades now and tbh all I really see going on anywhere is a bunch of opinionated self important drivel. When does it end? At what point do we say enough is enough? Cut the bull**** and get cracking? The greatest thing about veganism is that finally there's a line, you might not agree with it, you might want to resist it as much as you can, but I can let it go and walk away. It is the one thing I feel absolutely no need to argue about or defend. I don't care what cavemen or my ancestors or the ancients did. I don't care if my diet is not completely natural. I don't care if I occasionally eat chemicals to stay well. I don't ingest animal flesh, I don't engage in animal harm or cruelty and I don't murder animals and I think that anyone who does is staining their souls with the cries of billions of defenceless beings. I will shout it from the rooftops and I have no interest in anyone's opinions, freewill or right to choose in this matter. I no longer care. The line is drawn. Get with the program or you have no business being in this space.

[Akasha]

.....Nutritional yeast in one of the best sources of B12 and most naturals.....

To be clear.....


.....Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 unless they are fortified with it..... (source - veganhealth.org here (http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources))

.....and the only brand available in my Hungarian town is not fortified with the stuff :/


.....The problem is that these substance cannot be used by the body like the "real" B12 and if you ingest this B12like vitamin from spirulina it will stay in your body (for a long time) and block the receptors that enable the absorbtion of the real B12 instead. Thus you cannot absorb the B12 even if you were supplementing.

Besides spirulina is an algae/sea weed that has extremely strong tendencies to suck all the toxins possible from its environment. Wich is in itself a good thing, but if the air or water were the algae was cultivated was slightly contaminated you are probably puting that into your system as well. It is risky.....

This is very interesting. Thanks for highlighting it. Looks like I may have to rethink the spirulina intake.

[betoobig]

Processed meat causes cancer, says WHO
http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/26/news/red-meat-processed-cancer-world-health-organization/
love

[Pam]

Funny timing! Had to start a round of B12 shots on Thursday. Thanks for this. Chemical free seems to be synonymous with veganism but I'm not of that mind myself. I read the start of the thread Akasha but not the middle but I wanted to say thank you! I was certainly spiritually inspired to become vegan. Eating meat just no longer felt right. I was vegetarian for years but have now transitioned to vegan. Like you I've been vilified for my choices amongst the awakening community. I sought support elsewhere but most of the vegans I met were pretenders, just trying to be 'cool'. The reality is that meat eating is cruel and heartless and evil and anyone arguing otherwise is in the grips of cognitive dissonance and they will fight hard but there is no moving beyond that. There's no debate necessary. Murder is murder. And what the body was built to do or what it needs is superfluous. There are nutritional require that cannot be met through a complete plant based diet. That's okay. I don't need to prove otherwise to anyone. I don't need to prove that I can live on plants alone. I can't. But we do live in age of science and what the earth can't provide, science can. I'll take my iron tablets and have my b12 shots because that's what I need to do to live free.

And if anyone's interested, watch Cowspiracy. We are trapped in a conspiracy - to eat meat and the whole world is falling for it.

Also, research is proving more and more that meat eating is fast becoming the major cause of cancer. Google it!

Thanks for your frank and honest post there iamnoone and welcome to Avalon. I have to say that I agree with your statement regarding the cold reality of meat. As Gary Francione has repeatedly said, veganism is the moral baseline. Folk can take that or leave it but the soul can't be fooled by the ego: murder is always murder.

Thanks for the welcome. At some point you just have draw a line in the sand and move on. I have been on Avalon for long but I've been in this space for decades now and tbh all I really see going on anywhere is a bunch of opinionated self important drivel. When does it end? At what point do we say enough is enough? Cut the bull**** and get cracking? The greatest thing about veganism is that finally there's a line, you might not agree with it, you might want to resist it as much as you can, but I can let it go and walk away. It is the one thing I feel absolutely no need to argue about or defend. I don't care what cavemen or my ancestors or the ancients did. I don't care if my diet is not completely natural. I don't care if I occasionally eat chemicals to stay well. I don't ingest animal flesh, I don't engage in animal harm or cruelty and I don't murder animals and I think that anyone who does is staining their souls with the cries of billions of defenceless beings. I will shout it from the rooftops and I have no interest in anyone's opinions, freewill or right to choose in this matter. I no longer care. The line is drawn. Get with the program or you have no business being in this space.



iamnoone, thank you for speaking out!!! You are so right, there is nothing to answer for, except our selves. I do not want to live the rest of my life where what I believe does not match up to what I do. It took me quite awhile to get to this point. I have been a weak person for a lot of my life. I found my strength when my children, who first became aware of how farm animals were treated quit eating meat, just like that. And they have never gone back. When, I saw their strength, I realized that I too, could match what I believe with what I do. No more, excuses...no more, I'll do it later.. that was many years ago and I have never regretted that decision.

I hate to see animals, marginalized in the media. Made to look silly and ridiculous, so that we can have a laugh at their expense. Nature shows, that are really nothing more than opportunities to kill animals seem to be abundant. I am making it a point to speak out when I see this. We have no right to ridicule animals. Is it not enough that we have made most of their lives a living hell? We have no hope, as human beings, if we do not learn to have respect for all living things. I do not see how one can have personal integrity and allow the murder and pillaging of all living things.

Once again, thank you iamnoone, to me you are someone that is very special.

[Robin]

I just wanted to link this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86303-Doctor-Sells-Practice-Starts-Treating-People-With-Food) over to this one as it is relevant and inspiring to the Vegan movement. It is great to see that another Mainstream Doctor has seen the benefits of a Whole Foods plant-based diet on the prevention and management of disease and cancer. I really like his word to describe his new lifestyle...Farmacy.

I hope one day to see a headline on the news saying something like, "And Another Conspiracy Therapist opened up a Farmacy for the Benefit of the Whole Planet!" :)

[Akasha]

I just wanted to link this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86303-Doctor-Sells-Practice-Starts-Treating-People-With-Food) over to this one as it is relevant and inspiring to the Vegan movement. It is great to see that another Mainstream Doctor has seen the benefits of a Whole Foods plant-based diet on the prevention and management of disease and cancer. I really like his word to describe his new lifestyle...Farmacy.

I hope one day to see a headline on the news saying something like, "And Another Conspiracy Therapist opened up a Farmacy for the Benefit of the Whole Planet!" :)

Oh no, not another one of those crazy 'let food be thy medicine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates)' type doctors!!! Don't they know we've got expensive drugs for everything these days? :)

But seriously, thanks for the heads-up, Robin. It looks like a great thread!

[idiit]

"FAKE" MEAT CAUSES CANCER


Does Red Meat – or FAKE Meat – Cause Cancer?
Posted on October 26, 2015 by WashingtonsBlog



The World Health Organization said today that eating even unprocessed red meat “probably” causes cancer.

But as we reported in 2012, it may not be red meat – but FAKE meat – that’s killing us.

Specifically, the modern factory farm creates meat that is much higher in saturated fats – and much lower in healthy omega 3s – than traditional grass-fed cows.

Feedlot cows are also dosed with large quantities of antibiotics and estrogen.

Worse, the FDA allows a drug banned in 160 nations and responsible for hyperactivity, muscle breakdown and 10 percent mortality in pigs to be added to animal feed shortly before slaughter.

While the practice of feeding cow parts to other cows – one of the main causes of mad cow disease – has been banned on paper, cow blood “products”, feather meal, pig and fish protein, and chicken manure are all still fed to cows. Remember – unlike bacteria or viruses – heat does NOT kill the deadly prions which cause mad cow disease. (And cows are fed to chickens, pigs and fish – which are then fed back to the cows – so cows may end up eating the prions from other cows anyway.)

And yet the government is so protective of the current model of industrial farming that private citizens such as ranchers and meat packers are prohibited from testing for mad cow disease.

And genetically-engineered meat isn’t even tested for human safety. (Read this if you think there is a scientific consensus that gm foods are safe.)

On top of that, there are a slew of meat additives added after butchering.

So yes … factory-farmed, mass-produced red meat may be bad for us. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that organic, grass-fed meat is …

…

^ http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/does-red-meat-or-fake-meat-cause-cancer.html


How Pervasive are GMOs in Animal Feed?

By Ryan Beville • July 16, 2013 •




Where do these GMOs go?

While supporters of GMO crops argue that GMOs are essential to feeding a growing world population, the truth is that in the United States (the world’s foremost GMO producer and consumer) and in other major GMO producing countries, an overwhelming majority of the GMO crop is not even consumed directly by humans. In the US, livestock has been fed genetically engineered crops since these crops were first introduced in 1996 and each of the top 6 GMO crops (soy, cotton, corn, canola, sugar beet, and alfalfa) are heavily utilized by the US and global animal feed market.


http://gmoinside.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Global-Area-of-Biotech-Crops.png

http://gmoinside.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/The-Worlds-Biggest-GMO-Lovers-Mother-Jones.png


Recent statistics show that GM varieties account for approximately:

94% of US soy crops (which by volume accounts for just under half of all the GM crops grown worldwide)
90% of US cotton plantings
88% of the US corn crop
90% of the US canola crop
95% of US sugar beet plantings
Alfalfa (first planted in 2011)
Papaya (most of Hawaiian crop; approximately 988 acres)
Zucchini, yellow summer squash (approximately 25,000 acres)

http://gmoinside.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Biotech-Share-of-U.S.-Cultivation.png



The commercial animal feed industry is by far the largest purchaser of US corn and soybean meal; the majority of these US crops are genetically modified: corn 88% and soybeans 94%.
Of the two largest GMO crops in the United States, 98% soy and 79.5% of corn goes directly into feeding animals and fueling cars in the US

LOTS MORE AT LINKED ARTICLE:
^http://gmoinside.org/gmos-in-animal-feed/

[Akasha]

.....So yes … factory-farmed, mass-produced red meat may be bad for us. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that organic, grass-fed meat is …..

I get what you are saying, idiit, and thanks for your post.

Here's the link to the original article by the World Health Organization, entitled 'Q&A on the carcinogenicity of the consumption of red meat and processed meat (http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/)'

It doesn't stipulate between grass and grain-fed red meat when reporting it's findings and perhaps this is misleading to some extent…..

however…..

…..I'd highly recommend you watch Cowspiracy (click this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82470-Cowspiracy-the-sustainability-secret--2014-&p=1009872&viewfull=1#post1009872) for a post I made to allow you to watch it for free).

It will quickly become clear that grass-fed beef whilst no-doubt less detrimental to health than feed-lot beef is still not viable for the majority due to the amount of space needed to rear such livestock, and even if there were the space for such an enterprise, the environmental impact would still be as devastating, if not due to the large swathes of rain-forest being cleared to grow the feed, then still due to the methane, CO2 and other greenhouse gases generated by the animals themselves.

[idiit]

thanks akasha. I think I "over posted". :)

i'm pretty sure that eating meat is not necessary and is spiritually not as evolved as eating plants/veggies and maybe a few nibbles of "forbidden fruit".

I was making a point. point made.

ppl I admire don't eat meat. some say at some time I will totally give up the practice of meat eating.

I have cut down a lot on meat intake.

joke time:

in my yoga group they are mostly indian and don't eat meat. I went up to the head dude looking sad. :(

he asked me what's wrong.

I said "Krishna's mad at me.

he sincerely asked me why Krishna's mad at me.

I said "i keep eating his pets! :)

true story.

he didn't think it was funny. :)

point made.

pets aren't for dinner.

[Akasha]

.....joke time:

in my yoga group they are mostly indian and don't eat meat. I went up to the head dude looking sad. :(

he asked me what's wrong.

I said "Krishna's mad at me.

he sincerely asked me why Krishna's mad at me.

I said "i keep eating his pets! :)

true story.

he didn't think it was funny. :)

point made.

pets aren't for dinner.

"many a true word......"

Coincidentally I watched the following short vid' last night on the subject of vegans and jokes (caution - language) :

3wxGcrKxPZA

[Akasha]

Tyson 'Foods' atrocities exposed by undercover cameras........AGAIN. Caution - graphic (if we were truly omnivorous would I have to attach such a warning?) :

0L2mGC4zezM

[idiit]

FDA Confiscates Several Thousand Chickens From KFC Farms As Mutations Worsen

Posted on October 28, 2015

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/Off-Topic/OT_The_Political_Party/31620863-fda-confiscates-several-thousand-chickens-from-kfc-farms-as-mutations-worsen

http://now8news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/4-legged-chicken.jpg

http://now8news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/4eccf6436d537.jpg

chicken porn!

me so horny.

honesty is the quickest path to vegan. :)

[Akasha]

FDA Confiscates Several Thousand Chickens From KFC Farms As Mutations Worsen

Posted on October 28, 2015

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/Off-Topic/OT_The_Political_Party/31620863-fda-confiscates-several-thousand-chickens-from-kfc-farms-as-mutations-worsen.....

I think that's actually a hoax article.

Go to Now8News (http://now8news.com/) (source of the story) and scroll down the home page to get the idea. That's not to say the following video is in anyway fake:

HjhkJUDm9nQ


.....honesty is the quickest path to vegan.....

....worked for me : ) and is imho the main reason ag-gag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag) mechanisms are so important to the livestock industry.

[Baby Steps]

HELP PLEASE

I thought about starting a thread called 'Butter, Ghee, or neither?' I will be honest-I am trying to move towards a more vegan regime as I have studied enough to grasp the reasons why,but for me it cannot be about labels - like I am going veggie or whatever. Too many faddish people say this then have problems and lapse.
For me it is currently about practically coming up with ways of transitioning-ways of eating, that will facilitate permanent moves in the right direction.

I have a craving for putting some butter like fat on my bread, pasta, veggies etc. I do not rule butter out due to its saturated fat content, but rather to its IGF-1 content. This is one factor linking all dairy to cancer.

I found a site that states this about butter but then goes on to promote GHEE. How could this be? Could it be that the heating of the Ghee denatures the IGF-1???

Its easy to go out and buy lovely sounding non dairy spreads, but most of these appear to contain other 'bad guys' such as Sunflower or Canola oil. These are likely heated in the extraction process, so are contaminated and highly oxidising.

Any suggestions?

Its actually not difficult to make your own margarine using soy lecithin.(there are warnings about this too.)
So now I am thinking I can churn up GHEE with lecithin, and healthy oils, and maybe arrive at something healthy and buttery

Or am I disappearing up my own back passage?

[RunningDeer]

HELP PLEASE

I thought about starting a thread called 'Butter, Ghee, or neither?' I will be honest-I am trying to move towards a more vegan regime as I have studied enough to grasp the reasons why,but for me it cannot be about labels - like I am going veggie or whatever. Too many faddish people say this then have problems and lapse.
For me it is currently about practically coming up with ways of transitioning-ways of eating, that will facilitate permanent moves in the right direction.

I have a craving for putting some butter like fat on my bread, pasta, veggies etc. I do not rule butter out due to its saturated fat content, but rather to its IGF-1 content. This is one factor linking all dairy to cancer.

I found a site that states this about butter but then goes on to promote GHEE. How could this be? Could it be that the heating of the Ghee denatures the IGF-1???

Its easy to go out and buy lovely sounding non dairy spreads, but most of these appear to contain other 'bad guys' such as Sunflower or Canola oil. These are likely heated in the extraction process, so are contaminated and highly oxidising.

Any suggestions?

Its actually not difficult to make your own margarine using soy lecithin.(there are warnings about this too.)
So now I am thinking I can churn up GHEE with lecithin, and healthy oils, and maybe arrive at something healthy and buttery

Or am I disappearing up my own back passage?
Kate’s Creamery 100% Pure Butter (http://www.kateshomemadebutter.com)
Batch Churned “the Old Fashioned Way”
Farm Made in Maine
From cows NOT treated with Artificial Growth Hormones
GLUTEN FREE

I follow my intuition on what to add and remove from my diet. My body has never been able to take in vitamins no matter how pure or expensive. One example is my face breaks out within hours.

I’ve always had the feeling even before I ‘woke’ that everything I needed to heal was within. I still do, but add counter measures for the nano-tech, water, fluoride, etc. Whole foods are the way I stay healthy, that and the willingness to change up things as my body/spirit-body evolve.

One example is I use to adhere to the macrobiotic lifestyle. I even went to the Kushi Institute in Kiental, Switzerland for certification. Those books now collect dust. Some no-no’s in macrobiotics included very little to no fruits and most oils.

I introduced Kate’s Creamery Butter into my diet about three years ago. It’s a quality product and to name one benefit it’s an important part of brain function.


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/kates-butter_zpszplbd6oq.JPG

[Akasha]

HELP PLEASE

I thought about starting a thread called 'Butter, Ghee, or neither?' I will be honest-I am trying to move towards a more vegan regime as I have studied enough to grasp the reasons why,but for me it cannot be about labels - like I am going veggie or whatever. Too many faddish people say this then have problems and lapse.
For me it is currently about practically coming up with ways of transitioning-ways of eating, that will facilitate permanent moves in the right direction.

I have a craving for putting some butter like fat on my bread, pasta, veggies etc. I do not rule butter out due to its saturated fat content, but rather to its IGF-1 content. This is one factor linking all dairy to cancer.

I found a site that states this about butter but then goes on to promote GHEE. How could this be? Could it be that the heating of the Ghee denatures the IGF-1???

Its easy to go out and buy lovely sounding non dairy spreads, but most of these appear to contain other 'bad guys' such as Sunflower or Canola oil. These are likely heated in the extraction process, so are contaminated and highly oxidising.

Any suggestions?

Its actually not difficult to make your own margarine using soy lecithin.(there are warnings about this too.)
So now I am thinking I can churn up GHEE with lecithin, and healthy oils, and maybe arrive at something healthy and buttery

Or am I disappearing up my own back passage?

Hi Baby Steps, thanks for your post and no you aren't disappearing 'up there' and you aren't alone. Many of us have faced the same dilemma.
Ultimately if the plant-based spreads and the animal secretion-based spreads are both unhealthy, the only aspect left is ethics.

That said, I make a spread using 1/3 unsweetened soya milk and 2/3 cold-pressed sunflower oil (the more expensive ones have a more desirable, neutral taste) which I season with nutritional yeast and salt according to taste and then blend with a hand blender for about 10 seconds until it goes thick. More nutritional yeast will give a 'cheesier' flavor. I'm not going to pretend it's like butter but I do enjoy it and easily prefer it to the vegan margarines I've tasted so far, although I've heard some U.S vegans raving about vegan butter which may be available in the UK too by now. Incidentally the basic soya milk/sunflower oil foundation is ideal for making vegan mayonnaise. Just replace the nutritional yeast with some lemon juice and a dash of vinegar.

[Akasha]

.....Kate’s Creamery 100% Pure Butter (http://www.kateshomemadebutter.com)
Batch Churned “the Old Fashioned Way”.....

Hi Running Deer and thanks for the post.

Kate's butter may be better than the rest because she doesn't jack up her herd with synthesized bovine somatotropin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin) courtesy of Eli Lilly or Monsanto but her products still contain IGF-1 because it occurs naturally in cows and humans for that matter and its link with cancer growth is well established. Check the following short video by Dr. Michael Greger of nutritionfacts.org (http://nutritionfacts.org/) for clarification (of the peer-reviewed information not the butter ; )

ayuVb9-nFVo

I noticed that Kate is affiliated with the Humane Farming Association. Since the HFA has instigated a veal boycott which I'm sure everyone here will agree is a good thing, what do you think happens to all the male calves born to her cows now?

[Baby Steps]

deleted-Akasha kindly and excellently answered- will try that!

[Elainie]

HELP PLEASE

I thought about starting a thread called 'Butter, Ghee, or neither?' I will be honest-I am trying to move towards a more vegan regime as I have studied enough to grasp the reasons why,but for me it cannot be about labels - like I am going veggie or whatever. Too many faddish people say this then have problems and lapse.
For me it is currently about practically coming up with ways of transitioning-ways of eating, that will facilitate permanent moves in the right direction.

I have a craving for putting some butter like fat on my bread, pasta, veggies etc. I do not rule butter out due to its saturated fat content, but rather to its IGF-1 content. This is one factor linking all dairy to cancer.

I found a site that states this about butter but then goes on to promote GHEE. How could this be? Could it be that the heating of the Ghee denatures the IGF-1???

Its easy to go out and buy lovely sounding non dairy spreads, but most of these appear to contain other 'bad guys' such as Sunflower or Canola oil. These are likely heated in the extraction process, so are contaminated and highly oxidising.

Any suggestions?

Its actually not difficult to make your own margarine using soy lecithin.(there are warnings about this too.)
So now I am thinking I can churn up GHEE with lecithin, and healthy oils, and maybe arrive at something healthy and buttery

Or am I disappearing up my own back passage?
Kate’s Creamery 100% Pure Butter (http://www.kateshomemadebutter.com)
Batch Churned “the Old Fashioned Way”
Farm Made in Maine
From cows NOT treated with Artificial Growth Hormones
GLUTEN FREE

I follow my intuition on what to add and remove from my diet. My body has never been able to take in vitamins no matter how pure or expensive. One example is my face breaks out within hours.

I’ve always had the feeling even before I ‘woke’ that everything I needed to heal was within. I still do, but add counter measures for the nano-tech, water, fluoride, etc. Whole foods are the way I stay healthy, that and the willingness to change up things as my body/spirit-body evolve.

One example is I use to adhere to the macrobiotic lifestyle. I even went to the Kushi Institute in Kiental, Switzerland for certification. Those books now collect dust. Some no-no’s in macrobiotics included very little to no fruits and most oils.

I introduced Kate’s Creamery Butter into my diet about three years ago. It’s a quality product and to name one benefit it’s an important part of brain function.


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/kates-butter_zpszplbd6oq.JPG



I think we may have touched on this before- I too studied with Kushi and became an associate level teacher (back in the 80's) married a senior macro teacher who taught in Kiental as well. We no longer adhere to that diet (it's been so many years now since) and I too follow my own path dietary wise which is unique to me.

Of note- my ex step kids were part of the Dutch/Boston rickets study with macro kids. Their mom (a senior macro teacher) added to their diet back then (cheese and butter) in order to take steps to reverse the deficiencies. We saw many in macro children.


It should also be noted that Doug Graham's own daughter Faychesca had lost a lot of her teeth (to decay) as well as Doug himself. The 811RV community is another dietary "rabbit hole" I went down as well.

[Akasha]

deleted-Akasha kindly and excellently answered- will try that!

I'm not going to pretend that large quantities of any oil are healthy but the desire for them, for me at least, is a symptom and indicator of how deep my dairy addiction was/is......which segues nicely into Kerry McCarpet's latest offering on the subject of addiction, especially in light of how the media and the public at large is reacting to the WHO's recent report on cancer and processed meat (https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2015/pdfs/pr240_E.pdf) (very occasional strong language) :

zykDTEcam0s

[Elainie]

On ghee, according to ayurvedic practice it is an essential item. A local ayurvedic MD here uses copious amounts during panchakarma retreats. I have not tried it myself although my cousin visits and does panchakarma with this doctor. Here is an article by said doctor, although perhaps it should have it's own thread since this is a vegan thread and I don't want to turn it into a debate- just merely offering information. I just came back from meditation teacher training where we were served ayurvedic food all weekend (no ghee or dairy for me as I requested no lol).

Edited to add- I have friends (Viktor Kulvinskas) that have cleansed with large amounts of olive oil over the years internally. I like olive and coconut oil as fats as well as whole seeds/nuts on occasion and fatty fruits like avocado. I also use cacao butter as an internal fat.


http://lifespa.com/top-ten-reasons-cleanse-ghee/

[Constance]

I really like hemp as part of a whole food diet. I love hemp meal and butter. It provides me with those kick ass sources of fatty acids for the brain :blackwidow: and makes super awesome smoothies...

In Australia, we have crazy legislation which makes it illegal for a person to consume any kind of hemp.

However, whilst it is illegal for us, it is perfectly legal for animals.

So, every health food here stocks hemp protein with a label warning that hemp is not fit for human consumption. It's very popular...;)

I can feel a recipe coming on...

Breal's banana and choc smoothie

Ingredients

bananas x 2
hemp protein or meal x 2 teaspoons
macadamia x 1/4 cup
raw cacao x 2 teaspoons
blueberries x 1 handful - frozen or fresh
cinnamon x 1/4 teaspoon
coconut sugar/nectar - sweeten to taste - or use dates if you prefer as a substitute
water x 2 cups (for a runnier consistency you can add more water) or coconut water if you have it
cashews x 1/4 cup

Method
blend the nuts and the water first until you have a creamy liquid, add the rest of the ingredients, blend and enjoy!

[Akasha]

On ghee, according to ayurvedic practice it is an essential item. A local ayurvedic MD here uses copious amounts during panchakarma retreats. I have not tried it myself although my cousin visits and does panchakarma with this doctor. Here is an article by said doctor, although perhaps it should have it's own thread since this is a vegan thread and I don't want to turn it into a debate- just merely offering information. I just came back from meditation teacher training where we were served ayurvedic food all weekend (no ghee or dairy for me as I requested no lol).

Edited to add- I have friends (Viktor Kulvinskas) that have cleansed with large amounts of olive oil over the years internally. I like olive and coconut oil as fats as well as whole seeds/nuts on occasion and fatty fruits like avocado. I also use cacao butter as an internal fat.


http://lifespa.com/top-ten-reasons-cleanse-ghee/

We purchased The Ayurvedic Vegan Kitchen Cookbook (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ayurvedic-Vegan-Kitchen-Finding/dp/1570672865) not long ago and it's great. Highly recommended.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nNVQencxL._SX437_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

On the subject of ghee, there could be a hundred reasons to cleanse with it, but they are all trumped by the fact that it's not ours to take.

Debate? Here? Be my guest. Whilst I'd hoped this thread would be an asylum for vegans, I also wanted it to be a place where disagreement can be forged into common awareness through discourse......so......release the Kraken!!! (well you didn't think I was going to endorse its ongoing imprisonment did you? ;))

[Constance]

This is an audio talk with Dr. Vaidya Priyanka.

Here is another perspective on Ayurvedic healing.

She is from a matriarchal lineage of 700 years of ayurvedic healing. She has been vegan since the age of 4.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGYGBG_4yNU&feature=uploademail


Whilst I eat a plant based food diet because this is where I am at, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that all foods are medicine.

All foods can be used to heal relative to an individual and where they are at.

I want to get past the whole notion that foods are either good or bad for us because if I was not able to do that, how could I honour all beings?

Instead, I would rather take the approach, what is the highest and purest source of foods that I can experience right now?

[Akasha]

This is an audio talk with Dr. Vaidya Priyanka.

Here is another perspective on Ayurvedic healing.

She is from a matriarchal lineage of 700 years of ayurvedic healing. She has been vegan since the age of 4.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGYGBG_4yNU&feature=uploademail

Thanks, breal. I was looking for her but you beat me to it. She's full power!

SuDOZl5EbBk

[Elainie]

Thank you for above link on ayurveda sans dairy. That is needed as the standard party line is ghee and I think other forms of dairy. I haven't delved into ayurveda too much as it was never a dietary phase I experimented with.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



On ghee, according to ayurvedic practice it is an essential item. A local ayurvedic MD here uses copious amounts during panchakarma retreats. I have not tried it myself although my cousin visits and does panchakarma with this doctor. Here is an article by said doctor, although perhaps it should have it's own thread since this is a vegan thread and I don't want to turn it into a debate- just merely offering information. I just came back from meditation teacher training where we were served ayurvedic food all weekend (no ghee or dairy for me as I requested no lol).

Edited to add- I have friends (Viktor Kulvinskas) that have cleansed with large amounts of olive oil over the years internally. I like olive and coconut oil as fats as well as whole seeds/nuts on occasion and fatty fruits like avocado. I also use cacao butter as an internal fat.


http://lifespa.com/top-ten-reasons-cleanse-ghee/

We purchased The Ayurvedic Vegan Kitchen Cookbook (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ayurvedic-Vegan-Kitchen-Finding/dp/1570672865) not long ago and it's great. Highly recommended.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nNVQencxL._SX437_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

On the subject of ghee, there could be a hundred reasons to cleanse with it, but they are all trumped by the fact that it's not ours to take.

Debate? Here? Be my guest. Whilst I'd hoped this thread would be an asylum for vegans, I also wanted it to be a place where disagreement can be forged into common awareness through discourse......so......release the Kraken!!! (well you didn't think I was going to endorse its ongoing imprisonment did you? ;))



That cookbook looks nice, just placed it in my Amazon cart. I have a bunch of Indian vegan cookbooks but there is always room for more.

[Akasha]

....That cookbook looks nice, just placed it in my Amazon cart. I have a bunch of Indian vegan cookbooks but there is always room for more.

It's by no means exclusively Indian cuisine. I'd describe it as a general vegan cookbook coming from the Ayurvedic perspective of balancing the doshas through food.

[Elainie]

....That cookbook looks nice, just placed it in my Amazon cart. I have a bunch of Indian vegan cookbooks but there is always room for more.

It's by no means exclusively Indian cuisine. I'd describe it as a general vegan cookbook coming from the Ayurvedic perspective of balancing the doshas through food.

Yes, thanks ~ had looked at the reviews and see it's mostly non Indian recipes.

[Baby Steps]

THE DANGERS OF PROTEIN

This lady is a highly qualified vegetarian advocate. I have learned a lot. Some foods, principally dairy, CONTAIN IGF-1. High protein foods, such as animal protein, including dairy, and even soy protein extract, all promote PRODUCTION of IGF-1.

If you test human blood against cancer cell lines, the Cancer fighting ability of the blood varies 8-fold between a donor who eats a lot of animal protein, and a donor who lives from a plant based diet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R07FL1wVo4

[Akasha]

THE DANGERS OF PROTEIN.....

That's creepy because I literally just dropped by to post this:

Inflammatory response in kidneys triggered by animal protein but not plant protein:

58PBof9oUK8

Where do YOU get your protein?

post edit: ...just finished watching the protein video, Baby Steps, and I found it highly informative. Thanks a lot for sharing. I've just subscribed to vshvideo (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClWvuf-DKVw1uooIfrXoLvQ) to ensure I don't miss any more gems like that one!

[lake]

Akasha, hello my friend, I just spent some time reading posts of yours out side of this thread .... and you make me smile.

For which I thank you.

Nothing else ....... keep on being you

:clapping:

[Akasha]

Richard of Vegan Gains (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2eKhGzPhN5RPVk5dd5o3g) fame/infamy addressing some of the pro-meat backlash against the World Health Organization's report on processed meat's link with cancer:

-6aAFKlr7hs

[idiit]

keshe is doing some kids workshops on plasma. episode 6 is entirely devoted to keshe's thoughts on vegan, vegetarian and meat eating. it's controversial imo. it's 40+ minutes in duration and me thinks you need to view start to finish to get valid grasp on his take. I think it was interesting. i'm open minded on his take.


6th Kids Knowledge Seekers Workshop Nov 12 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL5Hm3cmxXE

[Akasha]

.....keshe's thoughts on vegan, vegetarian and meat eating.....

Cheers for that idiit.

I listened to this last year. It's essentially the "plants have feelings too' argument.....again, but unfortunately for Mehran, he is not a biologist.

When someone declares themselves to be the messiah (I like to label it messianic psychosis), they will invariably start vocalizing their gospel, in this case the gospel according to Mehran Keshe, and when they have sufficient self-reassurance, perhaps nurtured by the fact that they are actually highly competent in one or more fields (in his case nuclear physics), it often leads to unchecked waxing lyrical which when encouraged by the devotion of those sufficiently lost to think they have found a legitimate saviour in such a character can lead to no end of senseless babble.

His notion that the Hindus were somehow more passive, because of a lack of energy due to their vegetarian diets, than their muslim neighbours illustrates how he misunderstands the dynamic. The Hindus would accommodate and tolerate their aggressive neighbours' actions to a point because of their own deep revulsion towards violence, but when the threshold was reached they repeated illustrated that they had more than enough energy to deal with their aggressors in very, shall we say, uncompromising ways.
His 'vegans are weaker' idea is ludicrous and totally ignorant of the facts, many of which are illustrated in many posts in this thread pertaining to some of the most outstanding athletes on the planet.

Essentially, Keshe is a meat eater and he will, I suspect continue to justify his ongoing murder of animals with the same old tired arguments vegans are more than just a little bit familiar with, but in his case, interspersed with occasional plasma-fuelled techno-babble.

For example all his advice about transitioning to a vegetarian diet over a period of years is based on pure speculation on his part because he has never tried it himself. He talks about 'organs having to be reprogrammed (wtf)' when in reality all they care about is getting the 8 essential amino acids, which are absorbed far more safely when taken via plants because the chances of an auto-immune response is dramatically lower.

He says 'to go vegan takes three generations'. Where does this information come from?
With respect, he's pulling it out of his gans.

'Have you ever heard the cry of an apple when you pick it off a tree? Have you ever heard the pain of a lettuce when you cut it off at its roots?' (TFP (http://worldseriesdreaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/blog3.jpg))

Has he? No of course not, but the slaughterhouse screams continue unabated.

The 'but plants' argument is so done, but I have to say he's managed to resurrect it in a highly amusing way. The thing is, unlike Icke (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83021-All-Things-Vegan-&p=983734&viewfull=1#post983734) (a far closer representation of the messiah archetype), we're laughing at you, Mehran, not with you.


I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.

Bill Hicks

Feel free to share the points of his presentation which particlularly stood out to you, idiit. I'd be more than happy to discuss them.

[Constance]

.....keshe's thoughts on vegan, vegetarian and meat eating.....

Cheers for that idiit.

I listened to this last year. It's essentially the "plants have feelings too' argument.....again, but unfortunately for Mehran, he is not a biologist.

When someone declares themselves to be the messiah (I like to label it messianic psychosis), they will invariably start vocalizing their gospel, in this case the gospel according to Mehran Keshe, and when they have sufficient self-reassurance, perhaps nurtured by the fact that they are actually highly competent in one or more fields (in his case nuclear physics), it often leads to unchecked waxing lyrical which when encouraged by the devotion of those sufficiently lost to think they have found a legitimate saviour in such a character can lead to no end of senseless babble.

His notion that the Hindus were somehow more passive, because of a lack of energy due to their vegetarian diets, than their muslim neighbours illustrates how he misunderstands the dynamic. The Hindus would accommodate and tolerate their aggressive neighbours' actions to a point because of their own deep revulsion towards violence, but when the threshold was reached they repeated illustrated that they had more than enough energy to deal with their aggressors in very, shall we say, uncompromising ways.
His 'vegans are weaker' idea is ludicrous and totally ignorant of the facts, many of which are illustrated in many posts in this thread pertaining to some of the most outstanding athletes on the planet.

Essentially, Keshe is a meat eater and he will, I suspect continue to justify his ongoing murder of animals with the same old tired arguments vegans are more than just a little bit familiar with, but in his case, interspersed with occasional plasma-fuelled techno-babble.

For example all his advice about transitioning to a vegetarian diet over a period of years is based on pure speculation on his part because he has never tried it himself. He talks about 'organs having to be reprogrammed (wtf)' when in reality all they care about is getting the 8 essential amino acids, which are absorbed far more safely when taken via plants because the chances of an auto-immune response is dramatically lower.

He says 'to go vegan takes three generations'. Where does this information come from?
With respect, he's pulling it out of his gans.

'Have you ever heard the cry of an apple when you pick it off a tree? Have you ever heard the pain of a lettuce when you cut it off at its roots?' (TFP (http://worldseriesdreaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/blog3.jpg))

Has he? No of course not, but the slaughterhouse screams continue unabated.

The 'but plants' argument is so done, but I have to say he's managed to resurrect it in a highly amusing way. The thing is, unlike Ike (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83021-All-Things-Vegan-&p=983734&viewfull=1#post983734) (a far closer representation of the messiah archetype), we're laughing at you, Mehran, not with you.


I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.

Bill Hicks

Feel free to share the points of his presentation which particlularly stood out to you, idiit. I'd be more than happy to discuss them.

Do you want to hear something funny?

I was in an organic fruit and veg shop one day, rhapsodizing over the presence and scent of a mangosteen I had picked up when I got this distinct pyschic impression that all the mangosteens wanted to come home with me! :bigsmile: Maybe intent has much to do with how a plant responds because I always get the feeling that plants want us to eat them.
I've done a bit of strawberry picking in my time and the fields are ever so welcoming and beautiful to be in. I always eat more than I take home (which is always included in the picking price) and I feel ever so radiant. Call me a hippy but I know what makes me happy.

[Akasha]

.....Call me a hippy.....

You're a hippy!!!......but so am I :)

The symbiotic relationship between us and plants is so obvious from a biological perspective and, as you mentioned, an emotional one too. Mehran is clearly displaying his disconnect with nature judging by the statements he made in the video idiit shared. I'm in no way bashing his FE stuff - not being an engineer, I'm in no position to judge although I have my reservations about him bringing it to the world, but when he blunders into the realm of ethics with regard to animals, he can expect a backlash from the likes of me every time.

[Akasha]

A light-hearted look by ViolentVegan (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuaWOk5SWzHy4jeFEcd4jLw) (he's anything but) at many of the common mistakes practically all vegan noob's and some seasoned ones have made at one point or another along our respective journeys so far (pause 3 seconds before end of vid' to avoid obscenity):

n8BkVtAjXuY

[Akasha]

From the Cowspiracy thread, to avoid going off topic over there:





I love the 'harvest' euphemism. Why do you feel the need to disguise such actions with wordplay?

Are you really that far into cognitive dissonance?

Vegans choose to harvest plants, Omnivores harvest plants and animals, no matter what is being harvested for consumption it follows the same basic tenants: Before the harvest it is alive, afterwards it is not..... now the supposed Vegan moral high ground (which is really quite funny, the pot calling the kettle black etc..) is not really so high, in fact it's rather silly.

btw:


verb (used with object)
6.
to gather (a crop or the like); reap.
7.
to gather the crop from:
to harvest the fields.
8.
to gain, win, acquire, or use (a prize, product, or result of any past act, process, plan, etc.).
9.
to catch, take, or remove for use:
Fishermen harvested hundreds of salmon from the river.

You see we both harvest, vegans just seem to choose some arbitrary distinction on life and assume your better because of it.


Regarding what to do with the 155 animals in your care? Let them live out their lives. You shouldered that burden when you acquired them and they remain your responsibility.

We have formed a symbiotic relationship with many animals and plants, I don't think we should violate it as they have come to depend on us for our survival.

http://www.peta2.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/vegan-sidekick-comic-24.jpg

btw:


slaughter
ˈslɔːtə/
verb
verb: slaughter; 3rd person present: slaughters; past tense: slaughtered; past participle: slaughtered; gerund or present participle: slaughtering

1.
kill (animals) for food.
"the animals have been slaughtered according to Islamic laws"
synonyms: kill, butcher
"more than 150 bison were slaughtered to provide meat"
kill (people or animals) in a cruel or violent way, typically in large numbers.
"innocent civilians are being slaughtered"
synonyms: massacre, murder, butcher, kill, kill off, annihilate, exterminate, execute, liquidate, eliminate, destroy, decimate, wipe out, mow down, cut down, cut to pieces, put to the sword, put to death, send to the gas chambers; literaryslay
"innocent civilians are being slaughtered"
informal
defeat (an opponent) thoroughly.
"the first team were slaughtered"
synonyms: defeat utterly, trounce, annihilate, beat hollow, drub, give a drubbing to, crush, rout; More
informalhammer, clobber, thrash, paste, pound, pulverize, massacre, crucify, demolish, destroy, wipe the floor with, take to the cleaners, make mincemeat of, murder, flatten, turn inside out;
informalstuff, marmalize;
informalshellac, blow out, cream, skunk;
informalown
"the first team were slaughtered"

noun
noun: slaughter

1.
the killing of animals for food.
"thousands of calves were exported to the continent for slaughter"
the killing of a large number of people or animals in a cruel or violent way.
plural noun: slaughters
"the slaughter of 20 peaceful demonstrators"
synonyms: massacre, murder, murdering; More
mass murder, mass killing, wholesale killing, indiscriminate killing, mass homicide, execution, mass execution, destruction, mass destruction, annihilation, extermination, liquidation, decimation, carnage, butchery;
pogrom, genocide, ethnic cleansing, holocaust, Shoah, night of the long knives;
literaryslaying;
rarebattue, hecatomb
"the slaughter of 20 peaceful demonstrators"
carnage, bloodshed, indiscriminate bloodshed, bloodletting;
bloodbath
"a scene of slaughter"
informal
a thorough defeat.
"a magnificent 5–0 slaughter of Coventry"
synonyms: crushing defeat, annihilation, drubbing, trouncing, rout; More
informalmassacre, hammering, thrashing, caning, demolition, going-over, licking, pasting, pounding;
informalshellacking
"a desperate attempt to avoid their imminent electoral slaughter"

bbtw:


euphemism
ˈjuːfəmɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: euphemism; plural noun: euphemisms

a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.
"the jargon has given us ‘downsizing’ as a euphemism for cuts"
synonyms: polite term, substitute, mild alternative, indirect term, understatement, underplaying, softening, politeness, genteelism, coy term
"‘professional foul’ is just a euphemism for cheating"

[Constance]

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2014/08/116526/do-gut-bacteria-rule-our-minds

http://www.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/styles/2014_wysiwyg_full/public/fields/field_insert_file/news/gutheader.jpg?itok=wjy9vYx4




It sounds like science fiction, but it seems that bacteria within us – which greatly outnumber our own cells – may very well be affecting both our cravings and moods to get us to eat what they want, and often are driving us toward obesity.

In an article published this week in the journal BioEssays, researchers from UC San Francisco, Arizona State University and University of New Mexico concluded from a review of the recent scientific literature that microbes influence human eating behavior and dietary choices to favor consumption of the particular nutrients they grow best on, rather than simply passively living off whatever nutrients we choose to send their way.

A Power Struggle Inside the Gut
Bacterial species vary in the nutrients they need. Some prefer fat, and others sugar, for instance. But they not only vie with each other for food and to retain a niche within their ecosystem – our digestive tracts – they also often have different aims than we do when it comes to our own actions, according to senior author Athena Aktipis, PhD, co-founder of the Center for Evolution and Cancer with the Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center at UCSF.

http://www.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/styles/2014_wysiwyg_full/public/fields/field_insert_file/news/gut2.jpg?itok=WQNvlhiq
Are we at the mercy of our gut bacteria? The above image illustrates how microbes can "pull our strings," driving us to crave foods that give them the nutrients they need, including fat and sugar.
While it is unclear exactly how this occurs, the authors believe this diverse community of microbes, collectively known as the gut microbiome, may influence our decisions by releasing signaling molecules into our gut. Because the gut is linked to the immune system, the endocrine system and the nervous system, those signals could influence our physiologic and behavioral responses.

“Bacteria within the gut are manipulative,” said Carlo Maley, PhD, director of the UCSF Center for Evolution and Cancer and corresponding author on the paper. “There is a diversity of interests represented in the microbiome, some aligned with our own dietary goals, and others not.”

Fortunately, it’s a two-way street. We can influence the compatibility of these microscopic, single-celled houseguests by deliberating altering what we ingest, Maley said, with measurable changes in the microbiome within 24 hours of diet change.

“Our diets have a huge impact on microbial populations in the gut,” Maley said. “It’s a whole ecosystem, and it’s evolving on the time scale of minutes.”

There are even specialized bacteria that digest seaweed, found in humans in Japan, where seaweed is popular in the diet.

The Connection Between Digestive Tract and Brain
Research suggests that gut bacteria may be affecting our eating decisions in part by acting through the vagus nerve, which connects 100 million nerve cells from the digestive tract to the base of the brain.


Athena Aktipis, PhD

Carlo Maley, PhD
“Microbes have the capacity to manipulate behavior and mood through altering the neural signals in the vagus nerve, changing taste receptors, producing toxins to make us feel bad, and releasing chemical rewards to make us feel good,” said Aktipis, who is currently in the Arizona State University Department of Psychology.

In mice, certain strains of bacteria increase anxious behavior. In humans, one clinical trial found that drinking a probiotic containing Lactobacillus casei improved mood in those who were feeling the lowest.

Maley, Aktipis and first author Joe Alcock, MD, from the Department of Emergency Medicine at the University of New Mexico, proposed further research to test the sway microbes hold over us. For example, would transplantation into the gut of the bacteria requiring a nutrient from seaweed lead the human host to eat more seaweed?

The speed with which the microbiome can change may be encouraging to those who seek to improve health by altering microbial populations. This may be accomplished through food and supplement choices, by ingesting specific bacterial species in the form of probiotics, or by killing targeted species with antibiotics. Optimizing the balance of power among bacterial species in our gut might allow us to lead less obese and healthier lives, according to the authors.

“Because microbiota are easily manipulatable by prebiotics, probiotics, antibiotics, fecal transplants, and dietary changes, altering our microbiota offers a tractable approach to otherwise intractable problems of obesity and unhealthy eating,” the authors wrote.

Implications for Obesity, Diabetes and even Cancer
The authors met and first discussed the ideas in the BioEssays paper at a summer school conference on evolutionary medicine two years ago.

Aktipis, who is an evolutionary biologist and a psychologist, was drawn to the opportunity to investigate the complex interaction of the different fitness interests of microbes and their hosts and how those play out in our daily lives. Maley, a computer scientist and evolutionary biologist, had established a career studying how tumor cells arise from normal cells and evolve over time through natural selection within the body as cancer progresses.

In fact, the evolution of tumors and of bacterial communities are linked, points out Aktipis, who said some of the bacteria that normally live within us cause stomach cancer and perhaps other cancers.

“Targeting the microbiome could open up possibilities for preventing a variety of disease from obesity and diabetes to cancers of the gastro-intestinal tract. We are only beginning to scratch the surface of the importance of the microbiome for human health,” she said.

The co-authors’ BioEssays study was funded by the National Institutes of Health, the American Cancer Society, the Bonnie D. Addario Lung Cancer Foundation and the Institute for Advanced Study, in Berlin.

UC San Francisco (UCSF), now celebrating the 150th anniversary of its founding, is a leading university dedicated to promoting health worldwide through advanced biomedical research, graduate-level education in the life sciences and health professions, and excellence in patient care. It includes top-ranked graduate schools of dentistry, medicine, nursing and pharmacy, a graduate division with nationally renowned programs in basic, biomedical, translational and population sciences, as well as a preeminent biomedical research enterprise and two top-ranked hospitals, UCSF Medical Center and UCSF Benioff Children’s Hospital San Francisco.


Are we at the mercy of our gut bacteria?

Based upon what I have seen and heard over many years and also in relation to what I have experienced myself, I say yes. And...I also propose that the extent of the cravings can include meat and other animal products.

This theory could also be a possible explanation for why some vegans start eating meat again. It may be the bacteria craving the meat and not the person.

more to follow....

[Akasha]

‪"Eating Cholesterol Doesn't Raise Cholesterol" Debunked‬

A look at the research tricks used to promote cholesterol as well as the actual effects of cholesterol on the body.

vBtfzd43t8o

[Akasha]

A couple of articles within the past week discussing the potential legal ramifications of the W.H.O.'s I.A.R.C. report on processed and red meat's link with colo-rectal cancer:

Where’s the beef? Are stricter warning label requirements on the horizon for the meat industry? (http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=dbdaea65-3adc-4b3b-845f-10ba5f5f03d0)

Meat industry, California could head to court over cancer warning labels (http://www.sacbee.com/news/article43578408.html)

[Constance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWurAmtf78

Introduction from the TedTalk website


Bonnie Bassler discovered that bacteria "talk" to each other, using a chemical language that lets them coordinate defense and mount attacks. The find has stunning implications for medicine, industry — and our understanding of ourselves.

Transcript




Bacteria are the oldest living organisms on the earth. They've been here for billions of years, and what they are are single-celled microscopic organisms. So they are one cell and they have this special property that they only have one piece of DNA. They have very few genes, and genetic information to encode all of the traits that they carry out. And the way bacteria make a living is that they consume nutrients from the environment, they grow to twice their size, they cut themselves down in the middle, and one cell becomes two, and so on and so on. They just grow and divide, and grow and divide -- so a kind of boring life, except that what I would argue is that you have an amazing interaction with these critters.
00:51
I know you guys think of yourself as humans, and this is sort of how I think of you. This man is supposed to represent a generic human being, and all of the circles in that man are all of the cells that make up your body. There is about a trillion human cells that make each one of us who we are and able to do all the things that we do, but you have 10 trillion bacterial cells in you or on you at any moment in your life. So, 10 times more bacterial cells than human cells on a human being. And of course it's the DNA that counts, so here's all the A, T, Gs and Cs that make up your genetic code, and give you all your charming characteristics. You have about 30,000 genes. Well it turns out you have 100 times more bacterial genes playing a role in you or on you all of your life. At the best, you're 10 percent human, but more likely about one percent human, depending on which of these metrics you like. I know you think of yourself as human beings, but I think of you as 90 or 99 percent bacterial.
01:47
(Laughter)
01:48
These bacteria are not passive riders, these are incredibly important, they keep us alive. They cover us in an invisible body armor that keeps environmental insults out so that we stay healthy. They digest our food, they make our vitamins, they actually educate your immune system to keep bad microbes out. So they do all these amazing things that help us and are vital for keeping us alive, and they never get any press for that. But they get a lot of press because they do a lot of terrible things as well. So, there's all kinds of bacteria on the Earth that have no business being in you or on you at any time, and if they are, they make you incredibly sick.
02:29
And so, the question for my lab is whether you want to think about all the good things that bacteria do, or all the bad things that bacteria do. The question we had is how could they do anything at all? I mean they're incredibly small, you have to have a microscope to see one. They live this sort of boring life where they grow and divide, and they've always been considered to be these asocial reclusive organisms. And so it seemed to us that they are just too small to have an impact on the environment if they simply act as individuals. And so we wanted to think if there couldn't be a different way that bacteria live.
03:01
The clue to this came from another marine bacterium, and it's a bacterium called Vibrio fischeri. What you're looking at on this slide is just a person from my lab holding a flask of a liquid culture of a bacterium, a harmless beautiful bacterium that comes from the ocean, named Vibrio fischeri. This bacterium has the special property that it makes light, so it makes bioluminescence, like fireflies make light. We're not doing anything to the cells here. We just took the picture by turning the lights off in the room, and this is what we see.
03:32
What was actually interesting to us was not that the bacteria made light, but when the bacteria made light. What we noticed is when the bacteria were alone, so when they were in dilute suspension, they made no light. But when they grew to a certain cell number all the bacteria turned on light simultaneously. The question that we had is how can bacteria, these primitive organisms, tell the difference from times when they're alone, and times when they're in a community, and then all do something together. What we've figured out is that the way that they do that is that they talk to each other, and they talk with a chemical language.
04:07
This is now supposed to be my bacterial cell. When it's alone it doesn't make any light. But what it does do is to make and secrete small molecules that you can think of like hormones, and these are the red triangles, and when the bacteria is alone the molecules just float away and so no light. But when the bacteria grow and double and they're all participating in making these molecules, the molecule -- the extracellular amount of that molecule increases in proportion to cell number. And when the molecule hits a certain amount that tells the bacteria how many neighbors there are, they recognize that molecule and all of the bacteria turn on light in synchrony. That's how bioluminescence works -- they're talking with these chemical words.
04:51
The reason that Vibrio fischeri is doing that comes from the biology. Again, another plug for the animals in the ocean, Vibrio fischeri lives in this squid. What you are looking at is the Hawaiian Bobtail Squid, and it's been turned on its back, and what I hope you can see are these two glowing lobes and these house the Vibrio fischeri cells, they live in there, at high cell number that molecule is there, and they're making light. The reason the squid is willing to put up with these shenanigans is because it wants that light. The way that this symbiosis works is that this little squid lives just off the coast of Hawaii, just in sort of shallow knee-deep water. The squid is nocturnal, so during the day it buries itself in the sand and sleeps, but then at night it has to come out to hunt. On bright nights when there is lots of starlight or moonlight that light can penetrate the depth of the water the squid lives in, since it's just in those couple feet of water. What the squid has developed is a shutter that can open and close over this specialized light organ housing the bacteria. Then it has detectors on its back so it can sense how much starlight or moonlight is hitting its back. And it opens and closes the shutter so the amount of light coming out of the bottom -- which is made by the bacterium -- exactly matches how much light hits the squid's back, so the squid doesn't make a shadow. It actually uses the light from the bacteria to counter-illuminate itself in an anti-predation device so predators can't see its shadow, calculate its trajectory, and eat it. This is like the stealth bomber of the ocean.
06:20
(Laughter)
06:21
But then if you think about it, the squid has this terrible problem because it's got this dying, thick culture of bacteria and it can't sustain that. And so what happens is every morning when the sun comes up the squid goes back to sleep, it buries itself in the sand, and it's got a pump that's attached to its circadian rhythm, and when the sun comes up it pumps out like 95 percent of the bacteria. Now the bacteria are dilute, that little hormone molecule is gone, so they're not making light -- but of course the squid doesn't care. It's asleep in the sand. And as the day goes by the bacteria double, they release the molecule, and then light comes on at night, exactly when the squid wants it.
06:57
First we figured out how this bacterium does this, but then we brought the tools of molecular biology to this to figure out really what's the mechanism. And what we found -- so this is now supposed to be, again, my bacterial cell -- is that Vibrio fischeri has a protein -- that's the red box -- it's an enzyme that makes that little hormone molecule, the red triangle. And then as the cells grow, they're all releasing that molecule into the environment, so there's lots of molecule there. And the bacteria also have a receptor on their cell surface that fits like a lock and key with that molecule. These are just like the receptors on the surfaces of your cells. When the molecule increases to a certain amount -- which says something about the number of cells -- it locks down into that receptor and information comes into the cells that tells the cells to turn on this collective behavior of making light.
07:46
Why this is interesting is because in the past decade we have found that this is not just some anomaly of this ridiculous, glow-in-the-dark bacterium that lives in the ocean -- all bacteria have systems like this. So now what we understand is that all bacteria can talk to each other. They make chemical words, they recognize those words, and they turn on group behaviors that are only successful when all of the cells participate in unison. We have a fancy name for this: we call it quorum sensing. They vote with these chemical votes, the vote gets counted, and then everybody responds to the vote.
08:19
What's important for today's talk is that we know that there are hundreds of behaviors that bacteria carry out in these collective fashions. But the one that's probably the most important to you is virulence. It's not like a couple bacteria get in you and they start secreting some toxins -- you're enormous, that would have no effect on you. You're huge. What they do, we now understand, is they get in you, they wait, they start growing, they count themselves with these little molecules, and they recognize when they have the right cell number that if all of the bacteria launch their virulence attack together, they are going to be successful at overcoming an enormous host. Bacteria always control pathogenicity with quorum sensing. That's how it works.
09:01
We also then went to look at what are these molecules -- these were the red triangles on my slides before. This is the Vibrio fischeri molecule. This is the word that it talks with. So then we started to look at other bacteria, and these are just a smattering of the molecules that we've discovered. What I hope you can see is that the molecules are related. The left-hand part of the molecule is identical in every single species of bacteria. But the right-hand part of the molecule is a little bit different in every single species. What that does is to confer exquisite species specificities to these languages. Each molecule fits into its partner receptor and no other. So these are private, secret conversations. These conversations are for intraspecies communication. Each bacteria uses a particular molecule that's its language that allows it to count its own siblings.
09:54
Once we got that far we thought we were starting to understand that bacteria have these social behaviors. But what we were really thinking about is that most of the time bacteria don't live by themselves, they live in incredible mixtures, with hundreds or thousands of other species of bacteria. And that's depicted on this slide. This is your skin. So this is just a picture -- a micrograph of your skin. Anywhere on your body, it looks pretty much like this, and what I hope you can see is that there's all kinds of bacteria there. And so we started to think if this really is about communication in bacteria, and it's about counting your neighbors, it's not enough to be able to only talk within your species. There has to be a way to take a census of the rest of the bacteria in the population.
10:35
So we went back to molecular biology and started studying different bacteria, and what we've found now is that in fact, bacteria are multilingual. They all have a species-specific system -- they have a molecule that says "me." But then, running in parallel to that is a second system that we've discovered, that's generic. So, they have a second enzyme that makes a second signal and it has its own receptor, and this molecule is the trade language of bacteria. It's used by all different bacteria and it's the language of interspecies communication. What happens is that bacteria are able to count how many of me and how many of you. They take that information inside, and they decide what tasks to carry out depending on who's in the minority and who's in the majority of any given population.
11:23
Then again we turn to chemistry, and we figured out what this generic molecule is -- that was the pink ovals on my last slide, this is it. It's a very small, five-carbon molecule. What the important thing is that we learned is that every bacterium has exactly the same enzyme and makes exactly the same molecule. So they're all using this molecule for interspecies communication. This is the bacterial Esperanto.
11:48
(Laughter)
11:49
Once we got that far, we started to learn that bacteria can talk to each other with this chemical language. But what we started to think is that maybe there is something practical that we can do here as well. I've told you that bacteria do have all these social behaviors, they communicate with these molecules. Of course, I've also told you that one of the important things they do is to initiate pathogenicity using quorum sensing. We thought, what if we made these bacteria so they can't talk or they can't hear? Couldn't these be new kinds of antibiotics?
12:18
Of course, you've just heard and you already know that we're running out of antibiotics. Bacteria are incredibly multi-drug-resistant right now, and that's because all of the antibiotics that we use kill bacteria. They either pop the bacterial membrane, they make the bacterium so it can't replicate its DNA. We kill bacteria with traditional antibiotics and that selects for resistant mutants. And so now of course we have this global problem in infectious diseases. We thought, well what if we could sort of do behavior modifications, just make these bacteria so they can't talk, they can't count, and they don't know to launch virulence.
12:53
And so that's exactly what we've done, and we've sort of taken two strategies. The first one is we've targeted the intraspecies communication system. So we made molecules that look kind of like the real molecules -- which you saw -- but they're a little bit different. And so they lock into those receptors, and they jam recognition of the real thing. By targeting the red system, what we are able to do is to make species-specific, or disease-specific, anti-quorum sensing molecules. We've also done the same thing with the pink system. We've taken that universal molecule and turned it around a little bit so that we've made antagonists of the interspecies communication system. The hope is that these will be used as broad-spectrum antibiotics that work against all bacteria.
13:37
To finish I'll just show you the strategy. In this one I'm just using the interspecies molecule, but the logic is exactly the same. What you know is that when that bacterium gets into the animal, in this case, a mouse, it doesn't initiate virulence right away. It gets in, it starts growing, it starts secreting its quorum sensing molecules. It recognizes when it has enough bacteria that now they're going to launch their attack, and the animal dies. What we've been able to do is to give these virulent infections, but we give them in conjunction with our anti-quorum sensing molecules -- so these are molecules that look kind of like the real thing, but they're a little bit different which I've depicted on this slide. What we now know is that if we treat the animal with a pathogenic bacterium -- a multi-drug-resistant pathogenic bacterium -- in the same time we give our anti-quorum sensing molecule, in fact, the animal lives.
14:27
We think that this is the next generation of antibiotics and it's going to get us around, at least initially, this big problem of resistance. What I hope you think, is that bacteria can talk to each other, they use chemicals as their words, they have an incredibly complicated chemical lexicon that we're just now starting to learn about. Of course what that allows bacteria to do is to be multicellular. So in the spirit of TED they're doing things together because it makes a difference. What happens is that bacteria have these collective behaviors, and they can carry out tasks that they could never accomplish if they simply acted as individuals.
15:06
What I would hope that I could further argue to you is that this is the invention of multicellularity. Bacteria have been on the Earth for billions of years; humans, couple hundred thousand. We think bacteria made the rules for how multicellular organization works. We think, by studying bacteria, we're going to be able to have insight about multicellularity in the human body. We know that the principles and the rules, if we can figure them out in these sort of primitive organisms, the hope is that they will be applied to other human diseases and human behaviors as well. I hope that what you've learned is that bacteria can distinguish self from other. By using these two molecules they can say "me" and they can say "you." Again of course that's what we do, both in a molecular way, and also in an outward way, but I think about the molecular stuff.
15:56
This is exactly what happens in your body. It's not like your heart cells and your kidney cells get all mixed up every day, and that's because there's all of this chemistry going on, these molecules that say who each of these groups of cells is, and what their tasks should be. Again, we think that bacteria invented that, and you've just evolved a few more bells and whistles, but all of the ideas are in these simple systems that we can study.
16:19
The final thing is, again just to reiterate that there's this practical part, and so we've made these anti-quorum sensing molecules that are being developed as new kinds of therapeutics. But then, to finish with a plug for all the good and miraculous bacteria that live on the Earth, we've also made pro-quorum sensing molecules. So, we've targeted those systems to make the molecules work better. Remember you have these 10 times or more bacterial cells in you or on you, keeping you healthy. What we're also trying to do is to beef up the conversation of the bacteria that live as mutualists with you, in the hopes of making you more healthy, making those conversations better, so bacteria can do things that we want them to do better than they would be on their own.
17:01
Finally, I wanted to show you this is my gang at Princeton, New Jersey. Everything I told you about was discovered by someone in that picture. I hope when you learn things, like about how the natural world works -- I just want to say that whenever you read something in the newspaper or you get to hear some talk about something ridiculous in the natural world it was done by a child. Science is done by that demographic. All of those people are between 20 and 30 years old, and they are the engine that drives scientific discovery in this country. It's a really lucky demographic to work with. I keep getting older and older and they're always the same age, and it's just a crazy delightful job. I want to thank you for inviting me here. It's a big treat for me to get to come to this conference.

[Constance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-icXZ2tMRM

This TedTalk by Rob Knight is titled:

How our microbes make us who we are

This is the transcript as follows.


We humans have always been very concerned about the health of our bodies, but we haven't always been that good at figuring out what's important. Take the ancient Egyptians, for example: very concerned about the body parts they thought they'd need in the afterlife, but they left some parts out. This part, for example. Although they very carefully preserved the stomach, the lungs, the liver, and so forth, they just mushed up the brain, drained it out through the nose, and threw it away, which makes sense, really, because what does a brain do for us anyway? But imagine if there were a kind of neglected organ in our bodies that weighed just as much as the brain and in some ways was just as important to who we are, but we knew so little about and treated with such disregard. And imagine if, through new scientific advances, we were just beginning to understand its importance to how we think of ourselves. Wouldn't you want to know more about it?
01:06
Well, it turns out that we do have something just like that: our gut, or rather, its microbes. But it's not just the microbes in our gut that are important. Microbes all over our body turn out to be really critical to a whole range of differences that make different people who we are. So for example, have you ever noticed how some people get bitten by mosquitos way more often than others?
01:30
It turns out that everyone's anecdotal experience out camping is actually true. For example, I seldom get bitten by mosquitos, but my partner Amanda attracts them in droves, and the reason why is that we have different microbes on our skin that produce different chemicals that the mosquitos detect.
01:47
Now, microbes are also really important in the field of medicine. So, for example, what microbes you have in your gut determine whether particular painkillers are toxic to your liver. They also determine whether or not other drugs will work for your heart condition. And, if you're a fruit fly, at least, your microbes determine who you want to have sex with. We haven't demonstrated this in humans yet but maybe it's just a matter of time before we find out. (Laughter)
02:14
So microbes are performing a huge range of functions. They help us digest our food. They help educate our immune system. They help us resist disease, and they may even be affecting our behavior. So what would a map of all these microbial communities look like? Well, it wouldn't look exactly like this, but it's a helpful guide for understanding biodiversity. Different parts of the world have different landscapes of organisms that are immediately characteristic of one place or another or another. With microbiology, it's kind of the same, although I've got to be honest with you: All the microbes essentially look the same under a microscope. So instead of trying to identify them visually, what we do is we look at their DNA sequences, and in a project called the Human Microbiome Project, NIH funded this $173 million project where hundreds of researchers came together to map out all the A's, T's, G's, and C's, and all of these microbes in the human body. So when we take them together, they look like this. It's a bit more difficult to tell who lives where now, isn't it?
03:17
What my lab does is develop computational techniques that allow us to take all these terabytes of sequence data and turn them into something that's a bit more useful as a map, and so when we do that with the human microbiome data from 250 healthy volunteers, it looks like this. Each point here represents all the complex microbes in an entire microbial community. See, I told you they basically all look the same. So what we're looking at is each point represents one microbial community from one body site of one healthy volunteer. And so you can see that there's different parts of the map in different colors, almost like separate continents. And what it turns out to be is that those, as the different regions of the body, have very different microbes in them. So what we have is we have the oral community up there in green. Over on the other side, we have the skin community in blue, the vaginal community in purple, and then right down at the bottom, we have the fecal community in brown. And we've just over the last few years found out that the microbes in different parts of the body are amazingly different from one another. So if I look at just one person's microbes in the mouth and in the gut, it turns out that the difference between those two microbial communities is enormous. It's bigger than the difference between the microbes in this reef and the microbes in this prairie. So this is incredible when you think about it. What it means is that a few feet of difference in the human body makes more of a difference to your microbial ecology than hundreds of miles on Earth.
04:45
And this is not to say that two people look basically the same in the same body habitat, either. So you probably heard that we're pretty much all the same in terms of our human DNA. You're 99.99 percent identical in terms of your human DNA to the person sitting next to you. But that's not true of your gut microbes: you might only share 10 percent similarity with the person sitting next to you in terms of your gut microbes. So that's as different as the bacteria on this prairie and the bacteria in this forest.
05:15
So these different microbes have all these different kinds of functions that I told you about, everything from digesting food to involvement in different kinds of diseases, metabolizing drugs, and so forth. So how do they do all this stuff? Well, in part it's because although there's just three pounds of those microbes in our gut, they really outnumber us. And so how much do they outnumber us? Well, it depends on what you think of as our bodies. Is it our cells? Well, each of us consists of about 10 trillion human cells, but we harbor as many as 100 trillion microbial cells. So they outnumber us 10 to one. Now, you might think, well, we're human because of our DNA, but it turns out that each of us has about 20,000 human genes, depending on what you count exactly, but as many as two million to 20 million microbial genes. So whichever way we look at it, we're vastly outnumbered by our microbial symbionts. And it turns out that in addition to traces of our human DNA, we also leave traces of our microbial DNA on everything we touch. We showed in a study a few years ago that you can actually match the palm of someone's hand up to the computer mouse that they use routinely with up to 95 percent accuracy. So this came out in a scientific journal a few years ago, but more importantly, it was featured on "CSI: Miami," so you really know it's true. (Laughter)
06:35
So where do our microbes come from in the first place? Well if, as I do, you have dogs or kids, you probably have some dark suspicions about that, all of which are true, by the way. So just like we can match you to your computer equipment by the microbes you share, we can also match you up to your dog. But it turns out that in adults, microbial communities are relatively stable, so even if you live together with someone, you'll maintain your separate microbial identity over a period of weeks, months, even years.
07:04
It turns out that our first microbial communities depend a lot on how we're born. So babies that come out the regular way, all of their microbes are basically like the vaginal community, whereas babies that are delivered by C-section, all of their microbes instead look like skin. And this might be associated with some of the differences in health associated with Cesarean birth, such as more asthma, more allergies, even more obesity, all of which have been linked to microbes now, and when you think about it, until recently, every surviving mammal had been delivered by the birth canal, and so the lack of those protective microbes that we've co-evolved with might be really important for a lot of these different conditions that we now know involve the microbiome.
07:47
When my own daughter was born a couple of years ago by emergency C-section, we took matters into our own hands and made sure she was coated with those vaginal microbes that she would have gotten naturally. Now, it's really difficult to tell whether this has had an effect on her health specifically, right? With a sample size of just one child, no matter how much we love her, you don't really have enough of a sample size to figure out what happens on average, but at two years old, she hasn't had an ear infection yet, so we're keeping our fingers crossed on that one. And what's more, we're starting to do clinical trials with more children to figure out whether this has a protective effect generally.
08:26
So how we're born has a tremendous effect on what microbes we have initially, but where do we go after that? What I'm showing you again here is this map of the Human Microbiome Project Data, so each point represents a sample from one body site from one of 250 healthy adults. And you've seen children develop physically. You've seen them develop mentally. Now, for the first time, you're going to see one of my colleague's children develop microbially. So what we are going to look at is we're going to look at this one baby's stool, the fecal community, which represents the gut, sampled every week for almost two and a half years. And so we're starting on day one. What's going to happen is that the infant is going to start off as this yellow dot, and you can see that he's starting off basically in the vaginal community, as we would expect from his delivery mode. And what's going to happen over these two and a half years is that he's going to travel all the way down to resemble the adult fecal community from healthy volunteers down at the bottom. So I'm just going to start this going and we'll see how that happens.
09:25
What you can see, and remember each step in this is just one week, what you can see is that week to week, the change in the microbial community of the feces of this one child, the differences week to week are much greater than the differences between individual healthy adults in the Human Microbiome Project cohort, which are those brown dots down at the bottom. And you can see he's starting to approach the adult fecal community. This is up to about two years. But something amazing is about to happen here. So he's getting antibiotics for an ear infection. What you can see is this huge change in the community, followed by a relatively rapid recovery. I'll just rewind that for you. And what we can see is that just over these few weeks, we have a much more radical change, a setback of many months of normal development, followed by a relatively rapid recovery, and by the time he reaches day 838, which is the end of this video, you can see that he has essentially reached the healthy adult stool community, despite that antibiotic intervention.
10:26
So this is really interesting because it raises fundamental questions about what happens when we intervene at different ages in a child's life. So does what we do early on, where the microbiome is changing so rapidly, actually matter, or is it like throwing a stone into a stormy sea, where the ripples will just be lost? Well, fascinatingly, it turns out that if you give children antibiotics in the first six months of life, they're more likely to become obese later on than if they don't get antibiotics then or only get them later, and so what we do early on may have profound impacts on the gut microbial community and on later health that we're only beginning to understand. So this is fascinating, because one day, in addition to the effects that antibiotics have on antibiotic-resistant bacteria, which are very important, they may also be degrading our gut microbial ecosystems, and so one day we may come to regard antibiotics with the same horror that we currently reserve for those metal tools that the Egyptians used to use to mush up the brains before they drained them out for embalming.
11:26
So I mentioned that microbes have all these important functions, and they've also now, just over the past few years, been connected to a whole range of different diseases, including inflammatory bowel disease, heart disease, colon cancer, and even obesity. Obesity has a really large effect, as it turns out, and today, we can tell whether you're lean or obese with 90 percent accuracy by looking at the microbes in your gut. Now, although that might sound impressive, in some ways it's a little bit problematic as a medical test, because you can probably tell which of these people is obese without knowing anything about their gut microbes, but it turns out that even if we sequence their complete genomes and had all their human DNA, we could only predict which one was obese with about 60 percent accuracy. So that's amazing, right? What it means that the three pounds of microbes that you carry around with you may be more important for some health conditions than every single gene in your genome.
12:22
And then in mice, we can do a lot more. So in mice, microbes have been linked to all kinds of additional conditions, including things like multiple sclerosis, depression, autism, and again, obesity. But how can we tell whether these microbial differences that correlate with disease are cause or effect? Well, one thing we can do is we can raise some mice without any microbes of their own in a germ-free bubble. Then we can add in some microbes that we think are important, and see what happens. When we take the microbes from an obese mouse and transplant them into a genetically normal mouse that's been raised in a bubble with no microbes of its own, it becomes fatter than if it got them from a regular mouse. Why this happens is absolutely amazing, though. Sometimes what's going on is that the microbes are helping them digest food more efficiently from the same diet, so they're taking more energy from their food, but other times, the microbes are actually affecting their behavior. What they're doing is they're eating more than the normal mouse, so they only get fat if we let them eat as much as they want.
13:23
So this is really remarkable, right? The implication is that microbes can affect mammalian behavior. So you might be wondering whether we can also do this sort of thing across species, and it turns out that if you take microbes from an obese person and transplant them into mice you've raised germ-free, those mice will also become fatter than if they received the microbes from a lean person, but we can design a microbial community that we inoculate them with that prevents them from gaining this weight.
13:54
We can also do this for malnutrition. So in a project funded by the Gates Foundation, what we're looking at is children in Malawi who have kwashiorkor, a profound form of malnutrition, and mice that get the kwashiorkor community transplanted into them lose 30 percent of their body mass in just three weeks, but we can restore their health by using the same peanut butter-based supplement that is used for the children in the clinic, and the mice that receive the community from the healthy identical twins of the kwashiorkor children do fine. This is truly amazing because it suggests that we can pilot therapies by trying them out in a whole bunch of different mice with individual people's gut communities and perhaps tailor those therapies all the way down to the individual level.
14:37
So I think it's really important that everyone has a chance to participate in this discovery. So, a couple of years ago, we started this project called American Gut, which allows you to claim a place for yourself on this microbial map. This is now the largest crowd-funded science project that we know of -- over 8,000 people have signed up at this point. What happens is, they send in their samples, we sequence the DNA of their microbes and then release the results back to them. We also release them, de-identified, to scientists, to educators, to interested members of the general public, and so forth, so anyone can have access to the data. On the other hand, when we do tours of our lab at the BioFrontiers Institute, and we explain that we use robots and lasers to look at poop, it turns out that not everyone wants to know. (Laughter) But I'm guessing that many of you do, and so I brought some kits here if you're interested in trying this out for yourself.
15:34
So why might we want to do this? Well, it turns out that microbes are not just important for finding out where we are in terms of our health, but they can actually cure disease. This is one of the newest things we've been able to visualize with colleagues at the University of Minnesota. So here's that map of the human microbiome again. What we're looking at now -- I'm going to add in the community of some people with C. diff. So, this is a terrible form of diarrhea where you have to go up to 20 times a day, and these people have failed antibiotic therapy for two years before they're eligible for this trial. So what would happen if we transplanted some of the stool from a healthy donor, that star down at the bottom, into these patients. Would the good microbes do battle with the bad microbes and help to restore their health? So let's watch exactly what happens there. Four of those patients are about to get a transplant from that healthy donor at the bottom, and what you can see is that immediately, you have this radical change in the gut community. So one day after you do that transplant, all those symptoms clear up, the diarrhea vanishes, and they're essentially healthy again, coming to resemble the donor's community, and they stay there. (Applause)
16:48
So we're just at the beginning of this discovery. We're just finding out that microbes have implications for all these different kinds of diseases, ranging from inflammatory bowel disease to obesity, and perhaps even autism and depression. What we need to do, though, is we need to develop a kind of microbial GPS, where we don't just know where we are currently but also where we want to go and what we need to do in order to get there, and we need to be able to make this simple enough that even a child can use it. (Laughter)

[Constance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJkxwv45xho

The Effects of Meat on Blood by Dr Brian Clement

[Constance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XDSpuMIMPs

Fat, sick and nearly dead documentary by Joe Cross

Well worth a watch!

My beautiful son and I went to meet Joe at one of his juicing stands because I wanted my son to see, first hand who Joe was and what Joe was all about.
I found him incredibly inspiring and uplifting to be with. He was so approachable and one of the most genuine souls I have ever encountered.
Whilst he is not vegan himself, he has done a lot of great work to educate people through his own journey into wellness regarding the uptake of nutrients from the sun.

[Constance]

Warning! This may tip over the apple cart for anyone with any beliefs about humanity in the past being hunters and gatherers. :p

Introduction to Christina Warinners TedTalk: Debunking the paleo diet: Christina Warinner at TEDxOU


TED Fellow Christina Warinner is an expert on ancient diets. So how much of the diet fad the "Paleo Diet" is based on an actual Paleolithic diet? The answer is not really any of it.

Dr. Christina Warinner has excavated around the world, from the Maya jungles of Belize to the Himalayan mountains of Nepal, and she is pioneering the biomolecular investigation of archaeological dental calculus (tartar) to study long-term trends in human health and diet. She is a 2012 TED Fellow, and her work has been featured in Wired UK, the Observer, CNN.com, Der Freitag, and Sveriges TV. She obtained her Ph.D. from Harvard University in 2010, specializing in ancient DNA analysis and paleodietary reconstruction.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8

[Constance]

http://thevegantruth.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/a-compilation-of-long-term-vegans-our.html

A compilation of long term vegans - So many of my long term vegan Aussie friends are not on that list but should be!

[Constance]

Janette and her husband and running buddy Alan now live in Melbourne.

I've met her a few times now at various functions and meetups.

When I first got introduced to her, she appeared to be a very intense individual and I often wondered why...once I got chatting with her however, I got to understand why...And so here is her story...

http://rawveganpath.com/about-us/janettes-story/


When Janette Murray-Wakelin was diagnosed with highly aggressive carcinoma breast cancer over six years ago, she was ‘given’ six months to live. The tumour was 3cm and the cancer had spread into the chest wall and the lymph nodes. It was recommended that she undergo conventional chemotherapy and radiation treatment, which may possibly extend her life a further 6 months.
At 52 years, a mother of two and grandmother of one, she was not willing to accept this prognosis.
“I had lived a very healthy lifestyle, being vegetarian for 25 years and vegan for the previous 15 years,” Janette explains. “I have also been extremely physically active all my life, so I was quite shocked with the diagnosis.”
"Family is foremost in my life, food and fitness feature prominently, fun and happiness provide fulfillment, ...there is no room for fear." -Janette
“Family is foremost in my life, food and fitness feature prominently, fun and happiness provide fulfillment, …there is no room for fear.” -Janette
“However, the power of intention is far greater than that of fear,” Janette continues, “and I had every intention of staying around for a long time!”
Janette was alerted to the possibility of cancer being present when her little grandson inadvertently found the tumour. “I had been carrying him all day as we walked around a local festival and he had fallen asleep in my arms,” she remembers. “When we finally got home and I put him down, I noticed some pain in the breast area where he had been holding on to me. It was then that I discovered the lump.”
“I was not overly perturbed, ” Janette said. “I had always done regular self breast examinations and had never had any sign of a problem. In fact,” she notes, “apart from a bout of scarlet fever and measles as a tiny child, I have never been sick in my life. I have never had so much as a cold and I’ve never taken any drugs, not even an aspirin! I thought it was just bruising to the tissue from being held onto for hours by my grandson.”
It was Janette’s daughter who suggested she should have it looked at and the following day she had an ultrasound and biopsy, which proved the diagnosis.
“My intuitive response to the recommended treatment was that it did not make sense to compromise the body’s system further,” Janette explains. “ It seemed obvious to me that I should be helping the body to rejuvenate and rebuild, thereby reversing the problem.”
“My instinct told me that treating the symptoms would not address the cause. I was also convinced that I was not meant to die of cancer, so I treated the diagnosis as a challenge,” she said. “It seemed to me that this was just a message from my body that there was a problem I needed to deal with.”
A year earlier, Janette had been present at her grandson’s birth and had held his little hand for his first 24 hours of life. “I promised him that we would have many wonderful times together over the years and that I would always be there for him,” she recalls. “Now he had brought this to my attention so that I could take care of the problem and be able to keep my promise!”
Janette and her husband Alan have spent most of their lives traveling together worldwide. They married and their two children were born while still in their early twenties. In search of a healthy lifestyle for their little family, this adventurous couple sailed from their home country of New Zealand when their children were very small. Their sailboat was completely self-sufficient, relying on the four winds to take them throughout the South Pacific; visiting, living and working in places like the Tongan Islands, Micronesia and Papua New Guinea.
“Our time on the ocean was incredible,” Janette recalls. “We learned a lot about ourselves from living on the sea. Most of the time it was so serene, but there were moments of awe when the storms raged around us! It was fun home-schooling our children and as a family, we grew very close,” she mused. “It was a carefree life with very little stress, our food was mostly fresh fruit and vegetables and our environment was pretty clean and green.”
It was hard for Janette to think of what the cause may have been given the healthy lifestyle she had been living. However, during a maintenance refit for the sailboat, she did suffer an accident, which exposed her to a high dose of toxins.
“I was painting the boat when the scaffolding collapsed under me,” she recalls. “It happened so fast that I was still holding the can of paint when I hit the ground! I was completely covered in marine paint that has toxic antifouling properties, it was in my hair, my eyes, nose, ears and mouth. I ingested quite a bit, but most of my skin was covered in paint. It took 3 months before my normal skin colour came back and since the skin is the largest organ of the body, over-exposure for me was inevitable!”
After four years sailing in the South Pacific, the family embarked on a new adventure for a further four years; living and working on a cargo ship on the inland waterways throughout Europe.
“This adventure is another story in itself,” Janette says, “but during that time I was also exposed to toxic fall-out from the Chernoble disaster. Looking back over my life and remembering those two times when I was over-exposed to toxins, I realized that my body must have been highly compromised.”
Whether it was one incident or the other, or perhaps the combination of both, Janette was sure that the toxic load in her body predisposed her to the onset of cancer.
“I could think of no other explanation, but once I had established the cause,” she said, “I felt more empowered to do something about it. I was no longer guessing, taking a gamble on treatment, nor in fear of the outcome. I knew that I could take control of the situation myself, doing 100% the best I could for my body.”
The family’s initial reaction to the diagnosis was to research all they could about breast cancer, the possible causes and the treatments that were recommended, as well as looking into natural holistic therapies and making lifestyle changes that would be most likely to result in a positive outcome.
“We needed to know all the possibilities so that I could make an informed choice as to the best course of action to take,” Janette said. “I knew that it made sense to do everything I could to give the body the tools it needed to take me on my journey to optimum health. Our extensive research not only gave us the knowledge to do just that, but also the confidence to know that I had made the right choice.”
With the help of Janette’s naturopathic physician, she established a regime that focused on the holistic approach of mind, body and spirit. This intensive regime included intravenous immune therapy; Infrared detoxification therapy; increasing the amount of oxygen to the body through ozone treatment, conscious breathing and aerobic exercise; visualization, meditation, positive thinking and spiritual awareness; and maximizing the amount of nutrients taken into the body through juicing, wheatgrass and living food nutrition.
For the following six months after receiving the diagnosis, Janette spent 3 hours a day, 5 days a week at the naturopathic clinic having therapy to help boost the immune system. “I used the time sitting hooked up to the intravenous drip to relax. It also gave me time to do more research,” she said.
She increased the amount of exercise that she was already doing on a daily basis, incorporating yoga and long distance running. “With yoga I was able to reunite with myself. I came to know my inner self and to love myself unconditionally. My running became more meditative. I chose to run on trails in the mountains or barefoot in the sand along the beach. I could feel again the sense of freedom that I remembered when I ran as a child.”
“I visualized achieving personal goals that I had long since put aside – perhaps I would write, perhaps I would paint. I visualized myself proudly looking on at my grandson’s wedding; going full circle and being present at his child’s birth,” Janette smiles.
Daily sessions in the infrared sauna maximized the detoxification process. “I could feel the body ridding itself of toxins while enjoying the feeling of complete relaxation during the sessions,” she said.
“My nutritional intake took a huge leap. I started juicing in earnest. It made sense that I could consume more nutrients by juicing because I just wouldn’t be able to eat that amount of food. If it takes 4 cups of carrots to produce 1 cup of juice, and I could drink 4 cups of juice per day, I knew I was way ahead of the game,” she said. “I think I was close to consuming a truckload of carrots every week during those 6 months! My hands turned carrot-coloured, but I didn’t care! I was alive and running!”
“I also started taking wheatgrass,” Janette adds. “When I learned that one ounce of wheatgrass juice has the equivalent nutritional value of 2lbs of green leafy vegetables, (that’s more than most people eat in a week!), I never hesitated.”
Apart from having all the vitamins and most of the minerals the body needs to be healthy, wheatgrass juice also has all the amino acids making it a complete protein. Like all greens, wheatgrass is also very high in chlorophyll, which is pure oxygen to the body. When taken, the juice goes directly to the bloodstream, oxygenating the blood and the whole body.
“I knew from the research that we had done, that this was a crucial factor in stopping the mutation of cancer cells,” Janette explains. “Cancer cannot survive in an oxygenated environment, therefore the more oxygen I could pump into the body through exercise, conscious breathing and drinking wheatgrass, the better!”
Although Janette had been vegetarian and vegan for most of her life, she decided that if she was going to “give it 100%”, she would also eliminate all cooked food, thereby getting the maximum amount of nutrients from all foods she consumed.
“I couldn’t believe the difference in the way I felt within only one week of changing to 100% RAW food,” she exclaims. “The first thing I noticed was my clarity of mind was intensely heightened. I no longer had to think about decision making. Everything became very clear, there was no hesitation.”
“I lost 15lb within the first month of eating 100% RAW food, which took me just below my recommended weight per height ratio. The following month my weight came back up a few lbs and has not changed since,” she says.
During the first 6 months, Janette’s body revisited old injuries that had obviously not completely healed. For example, during her accident with the paint, she sustained an injury to her elbow that had left her unable to straighten her arm. She experienced ten days of pain in the elbow, similar to that which she had endured at the time of the accident, but when the pain stopped she could straighten her arm again!
“I also found I had much more energy than before and that it lasted longer. It was especially evident during my long training runs and my physical performance level increased,” she said. “There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that consuming 100% RAW food made a huge difference to my recovery time and to my overall healing.”
It is interesting that although the lifestyle changes Janette made were minimal, the positive results were profound.
“I really only had to stop eating the odd muffin, a sandwich now and then, eliminate the pasta and stop wokking my vegetables!” she laughs. “I had already eliminated meats as a child, dairy in my teens and I had never eaten processed or junk food. So the change to 100% RAW food for me was not that big, but the change to my overall health was huge. Not only did I immediately experience clarity of mind, increased energy, specific injury healing and a feeling of well-being, but I actually cured myself of cancer!”
Within the six months that Janette was ‘given’ after her diagnosis, she received a clean bill of health. There was no longer any sign of cancer cells in her body. She finished the immune therapy regime, but has continued with all other aspects of her RAW lifestyle.
Janette is quick to mention that those crucial six months were also filled with love, laughter and lots of support from her family and friends.
“I am blessed with a loving family who rallied for me with the research, with physical and mental support, and most of all,” she emphasizes, “with their unwavering conviction that the path I had chosen was mine to choose. I believe having unconditional support is also paramount in healing the body.”
“I now have two more grandchildren whom I believe I would never have known had I not made these informed choices to follow a RAW lifestyle,” she says with passion and conviction. “My diagnosis of cancer and resulting journey to optimum health has been an experience I am truly grateful for. I know for certain that I will continue on the RAW path, as I continue to experience more health benefits and an ever-increasing enlightened consciousness. Every day is exciting when you are RAW!”
As a result of her life changing experience, Janette and Alan established a Centre for Optimum Health on Vancouver Island, BC, Canada, where they offered RAW Lifestyle Programs based on the holistic approach of mind, body and spirit. Health presentations, seminars and workshops were offered by over 40 holistic practitioners affiliated with the Centre on a weekly basis and international health educators spoke monthly. The Centre had a RAW Lifestyle Store, a Conscious Book, Film & Internet Library, a Fitness Studio, and an Infrared Sauna Spa. They also sponsored weekly and monthly RAW Food Potlucks and offered RAW Food Preparation Classes in the RAW Vegan Restaurant within the Centre. Both she and Alan are 100% RAW and their staff of 20 also followed the RAW Lifestyle.
Janette has a life partner, two adult children (and their partners), and five grandchildren!

[Constance]

Something more to chew on...:pop2:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/


Human Ancestors Were Nearly All Vegetarians
By Rob Dunn | July 23, 2012 | 100
Paleolithic diets have become all the rage, but are they getting our ancestral diet all wrong?

Right now, one half of all Americans are on a diet. The other half just gave up on their diets and are on a binge. Collectively, we are overweight, sick and struggling. Our modern choices about what and how much to eat have gone terribly wrong. The time has come to return to a more sensible way of eating and living, but which way? One group of self-help books suggests we give up carbohydrates, another that we give up fats, another still that we lay off the protein. Or maybe we should just eat the way our ancestors did. A new class of very popular self-help books recommends a return to the diets of our ancestors. Paleolithic diets, caveman diets, primal diets and the like, urge us to remember the good ole days. Taken too literally, such diets are ridiculous. After all, like all wild species, sometimes our ancestors starved to death and the starving to death diet, well, it ends badly. The past was no panacea; each generation we made due with the bodies and foods available, imperfect bodies and imperfect foods. But let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that it would be a good idea to eat like our ancestors ate. Just what did they eat?

Here is where the trouble starts. Collectively, anthropologists have spent many a career attempting to hone in on the diets of our most recent ancestors. Typically, they focus on our stone age (AKA Paleolithic) human ancestors or our earlier pre-human, hominid ancestors. Even if we just consider our stone age ancestors—those folks whose stories span the time between the first stone tool and the first agriculture—the sides of the debate are polarized. If you listen to one camp, our ancestors got most of their nutrition from gathered fruits and nuts; successful kills of big mammals may have been more of a treat than an everyday reality. A paper out just this month suggests that even Neanderthals--our north country cousins and mates-- may have eaten much more plant material than previously suspected. Meanwhile, more macho camps of academics paint a picture of our ancestors as big, bad, hunters, who supplemented meaty diets with the occasional berry "chaser." Others suggest we spent much of our recent past scavenging what the lions left behind, running in to snag a half-rotten wildebeest leg when the fates allowed. In other words, athough “Paleolithic” diets in diet books tend to be very meaty, reasonable minds disagree as to whether ancient, Paleolithic diets actually were. Fortunately, new research suggests answers (yes, plural) to the question of what our ancestors ate.

The resolutions come, in part, from considering the question of our diets in a broader evolutionary context. When we talk about "paleo" diets, we arbitrarily tend to start with one set of ancestors, our most recent ones. I want to eat like Homo erectus or a Neanderthal or a stone age human, my neighbors testify. But why do we choose these particular ancestors as starting points? They do seem tough and admirable in a really strong five o’ clock shadow sort of way. But if we want to return to the diet our guts and bodies "evolved to deal with" (a concept that wrongly assumes our bodies are fine tuned by engineers rather than cobbled together by natural selection), perhaps we should also be looking our earlier ancestors. In addition to understanding early humans and other hominids, we need to understand the diet of our ancestors during the times when the main features of our guts, and their magical abilities to turn food into life, evolved. The closest (albeit imperfect) proxies for our ancestral guts are to be found coiled inside the living bodies of monkeys and apes.

I should start by explaining what the “gut” is and does; I use the term too loosely. What I really mean is the alimentary canal and all of its gurgling bells and whistles. This canal is the most important and least lovely waterway on Earth. It takes you from the mouth through the body all the way down to the anus. But while most canals take the shortest course between two points, the one inside you takes the longest. The longer the canal, the more area over which digestion can occur. Food enters the canal through the mouth, where it is chewed and slimed with saliva. It then hits the stomach, where proteins are digested (and, I think, bacteria are filtered). Next, it is on down to the small intestine where simple sugars are absorbed. If you have just eaten a twinkie, the process essentially ends there. Everything worth consuming has been absorbed. But if you have eaten broccoli, an artichoke or a fig, things are just beginning. It is in the large intestine, where harder to break down carbohydrates (such as cellulose, the most common plant compound on Earth) are torn asunder. This system evolved so as to provide us with as many calories as possible (long to our benefit) and, also, as many of the necessary but hard to produce nutrients. The alimentary canal is, evolutionarily speaking, a masterwork. It makes energy from the food we are lucky enough to find 1.

Although all guts are sublime, just how they do what they do varies among species, much as do the leaves on trees or beaks on birds. When considering evolution’s great innovations, Darwin dallied among the beaks, but he might just as well have focused on the gut or even simply colons2. A beak can pick something up, maybe crush it. Big deal. A colon can jump start the process of turning a bit of rotten fruit or leaf into usable energy and ultimately life. Science can replicate a beak; it is still working on making a good replica of a colon, much less replicating the great variety of colons and guts more generally found in nature. Carnivores such as lions have smooth stomachs big enough to hold a good sized hunk of a small antelope. In them, the muscles of prey are returned to the bits of protein out of which they are made. The stomachs of some herbivores on the other hand are dense with hair-like villi and, moving among them, the bacteria that aid in the breakdown of plant cell walls and their cellulose. The stomach of a cow is a kind of giant fermenter in which bacteria produce huge quantities of specific fatty acids the cow can easily use or store (You eat some of those fatty acids when you eat a cow). In other species, the stomach scarcely exists and fermentation takes place in a greatly enlarged large intestine.

Yet, for all of the vulgar and magnificent elaborations on the theme of tubes to be found inside animals, the guts of humans are boring (although see footnote 5). Our guts are remarkably similar to those of chimpanzees and orangutans--gorillas are a bit special--which are, in turn, not so very different from those of most monkeys. If you were to sketch and then consider the guts of different monkeys, apes and humans you would stop before you were finished, unable to remember which ones you had drawn and which ones you had not. There is variation. In the leaf-eating black and white colobus monkeys (among which my wife and I once lived in Boabeng-Fiema, Ghana) the stomach is modified into a giant fermentation flask, as if the colobus were kin to a cow. In leaf-eating howler monkeys the large intestine has become enlarged to take on a similarly disproportionate role, albeit later on in digestion. But in most species things are not so complex. An unelaborated stomach breaks down protein, a simple small intestine absorbs sugars and a large (but not huge) large intestine ferments whatever plant material is left over. Our guts do not seem to be specialized hominid guts; they are, instead, relatively generalized monkey/ape guts. Our guts are distinguished primarily (aside from our slightly enlarged appendix) by what they are missing rather than what they uniquely possess. Our large intestines are shorter than those of living apes relative to the overall size of our gut (more like 25% of the whole, compared to 46% of the whole in chimps). This shortness appears to make us less able to obtain nutrients from the cellulose in plant material than are other primates though the data are far from clear-cut. The variation in the size and details of our large intestines relative to those of apes or gorillas have not been very well considered. In a 1925 study the size of colons was found to vary from one country to the next with the average Russian apparently having a colon five feet longer than the average Turk. Presumably the differences among regions in colon length are genetically based. It also seems likely that the true human colonic diversity has not yet been characterized (the above study considered only Europe). Because of the differences in our colons (and ultimately the number of bacteria in them) we must also vary in how effectively we turn cellulose and other hard to break down plant material into fatty acids. One measure of the inefficiency of our colons is our farting, which we all know varies person to person. Each stinking fart is filled with a measure of our variety.3 Aside then from the modest size of our colon, our guts are strikingly, elegantly, obviously, ordinary.





So what do other living primates eat, the ones with guts mostly like ours, eat? The diets of nearly all monkeys and apes (except the leaf-eaters) are composed of fruits, nuts, leaves, insects, and sometimes the odd snack of a bird or a lizard (see more about chimpanzees). Most primates have the capacity for eating sugary fruit, the capacity for eating leaves and the capacity for eating meat. But meat is a rare treat, if eaten at all. Sure, chimpanzees sometimes kill and devour a baby monkey, but the proportion of the diet of the average chimpanzee composed of meat is small. And chimps eat more mammal meat than any of the other apes or any of the monkeys. The majority of the food consumed by primates today--and every indication is for the last thirty million years--is vegetable, not animal. Plants are what our apey and even earlier ancestors ate; they were our paleo diet for most of the last thirty million years during which our bodies, and our guts in particular, were evolving. In other words, there is very little evidence that our guts are terribly special and the job of a generalist primate gut is primarily to eat pieces of plants. We have special immune systems, special brains, even special hands, but our guts are ordinary and for tens of millions of years those ordinary guts have tended to be filled with fruit, leaves, and the occasional delicacy of a raw hummingbird4.



“But wait dude,” you might say, you have not gone far enough back in time. After all, most of the details of our guts, the size and shape of its different parts, are even older. Even prosimians, lemurs and their other adorable kin have guts similar to our guts. Maybe they were carnivores and we can still be “paleo” and eat a ton of meat? Maybe in thinking about our guts, we should look to the prosimians. Sure enough, most prosimians are (and likely were) carnivores. They eat and ate meat, BUT most of that meat comes from insects. And so if you are serious about eating a really old school paleo diet, if you mean to eat what our bodies evolved to eat in the “old” days, you really need to be eating more insects. Then again, our guts aren’t so different from those of rats. Maybe the rats… 4.

Which paleo diet should we eat? The one from twelve thousand years ago? A hundred thousand years ago? Forty million years ago? If you want to return to your ancestral diet, the one our ancestors ate when most of the features of our guts were evolving, you might reasonably eat what our ancestors spent the most time eating during the largest periods of the evolution of our guts, fruits, nuts, and vegetables—especially fungus-covered tropical leaves.


Of course, there might be differences between our digestive system and those of other species that have gone relatively undetected. Maybe someone will discover rapid evolution in the genes associated with our digestion over the last million years, the sort of evolution that might signal that we had evolved specialized (but so far hidden) features to deal with diets heavier in meat, an adaptationist just so story that makes a big steak seem not like an indulgence but instead our evolutionary birthright. If you want a justification for eating a meaty "paleodiet," in other words, the search should be for evidence that some aspect of our bodies evolved in such a way as to be better able to deal with extra meat or other elements of our stone age diets that differed from the primate norm. It could be there, as of yet undetected.

If you want my bet, the majority of the recent (last few million years) changes in our guts and digestion will prove to have had more to do with processing food and, later, agriculture rather than with meat-eating per se. As hominids and/or humans switched to eating more meat, their bodies might have evolved so to be able to better digest meat. I could be convinced. But, we know our human digestive systems DID evolve to deal with agriculture and the processing (fermenting and cooking) of food. With agriculture, some human populations evolved extra copies of amylase genes, arguably so as to better be able to deal with starchy foods. The case of agriculture is the most clear. With agriculture, several human populations independently evolved gene variants that coded for the persistence of lactase (which breaks down lactose) so as to be able to deal with milk, not just as babies but also as adults. Drinking milk of another species as an adult is weird, but some human populations have evolved the ability. With agriculture, the species in our guts seem to have evolved too. Some populations of humans in Japan have a kind of bacteria in their guts which appears to have stolen genes for breaking down seaweed, a foodstuff that became popular along with the post-agricultural Japanese diet. With agriculture, human bodies changed so as as to cope with new foods. Our bodies bear the marks of many histories. As a result, if you want to eat what your body “evolved to eat” you need to eat something different depending on who your recent ancestors were. We already do this to some extent. If your ancestors were dairy farmers, you can drink milk as an adult without trouble, you've "got lactase." But if they were not, you tend to get diarrhea when you drink milk and so you probably avoid the stuff (lest your friends avoid you). But the truth is, for most of the last twenty million years of the evolution of our bodies, through most of the big changes, we were eating fruit, nuts, leaves and the occasional bit of insect, frog, bird or mouse. While some of us might do well with milk, some might do better than others with starch and some might do better or worse with alcohol, we all have the basic machinery to get fruity or nutty without trouble. And anyway, just because some of us do better with milk or starch or meat than others doesn't mean such foods are good for us, it just means that those individuals who couldn't deal with these foods were more likely to die or less likely to mate.

What might be different, either between you and me or between you and me and our ancestors is the sort of gut bacteria we have to help us digest our food (which might also relate to the size and particulars of our colons). The new era in study of gut bacteria (and their role in digestion)—the era of the microbiome—may reveal that our stone age ancestors, by eating a little more meat, cultivated bacteria that help break down meat, which they then passed on to us (during birth which is messy and has long been), their maybe meat-eating descendents. Recent research by Joanna Lambert at the University of Texas, San Antonio and Vivek Fellner at North Carolina State University (my home institution) have revealed that the gut microbes of chimpanzees and gorillas do seem to work a little differently than those of monkeys (or at least the monkeys they studied). Bacteria from the guts of gorillas and chimps seem to produce more methane as waste than do those from monkey guts. Maybe this is just the tip of the fecal berg and the guts of different primates are fine-tuned to their diet in very sophisticated ways, including the fine-tuning of our own guts for eating more meat! Possibly, the next years will be exciting, both in terms of understanding the unique attributes of our microbes and the unique elements of our immune systems and the ways in which they regulate the composition of those microbes. These changes in bacteria might be mediated by changes in our immune systems themselves and how they relate to the microbes processing our planty food. Interestingly, if our gut bacteria responded rapidly to shifts in diets toward more meat during the stone age, they might be expected to have shifted again when we began to farm, at least for those of us with ancestors who began to farm early. When our gut bacteria met up with our agricultural diets, beginning twelve thousand years ago or so, they would have begun to compete with new microbial species that kicked ass at living off wheat, barley, corn, rice or any of the other grasses that have come to dominate the world, sometimes at our expense. This may even mean that which diet is best for you depends not only on who your ancestors were, but also who the ancestors of your bacteria were.



So, what should we eat? The past does not reveal a simple answer, ever. Our bodies did not evolve to be in harmony with a past diet. The evolved to take advantage of what was available. If the best diet we can, with billions of dollars invested in nutritional studies, stumble upon is the one that our ancestors of one or another stage happened to die less when consuming, we are in trouble. Should we take our evolutionary past into account when figuring out the optimal diet. Yes, definitely. But there are two big caveats. First, our evolutionary history is not singular. Our bodies are filled with layers of evolutionary histories; both recent and ancient adaptations, histories that influence how and who we are in every way, including what happens to the food we eat. The recent adaptations of our bodies differ from one person to the next, whether because of unique versions of genes or unique microbes, but our bodies are all fully-equipped to deal with meat (which is relatively easy) and natural sugars (also easy, if not always beneficial), and harder to digest plant material, what often gets called fiber.5 Our ancient evolutionary history influences how we deal with these foods, as does our stone age past, as do the changes that occurred to some but not all peoples as agriculture arose. With time, we will understand more about how these histories influence how our bodies deal with the food we eat. But the bigger caveat is that what our histories and ancestral diets offer is not an answer as to what we should eat. It is, more simply, context. Our ancestors were not at one with nature. Nature tried to kill them and starve them out; they survived anyway, sometimes with more meat, sometimes with less, thanks in part to the ancient flexibility of our guts.

As for me, I’ll choose to eat the fruits and nuts like my early ancestors, not because they are the perfect paleodiet but instead because I like these foods and modern studies suggest that consuming them offers benefits. I'll supplement them with some of the great beans of agriculture, too much coffee, maybe a glass of wine and some chocolate. These supplements are not paleo by any definition, but I like them. What should you eat? The truth is that many different diets consumed by our ancestors--al insect diet, mastodon diets or whatever you please--would be, although some perfect panacea, better than the average modern diet, one so bad that any point in the past can come to seem like the good ole days, unless you go too far back to a point when our ancestors lived more like rats and probably ate everything, including their own feces. Sometimes what happens in paleo should really stay in paleo6.

1-Well, into you and into excrement.

2- It would have suited him. After all, he took great pains to document his own bowel movements.

3- The most widely cited comparison of the guts of chimps, humans, gorillas and orangutans has sample sizes of one individual for both chimps and orangutans, so just how much larger the large intestines of chimps or orangutans are relative to ours is not yet known. Our relatively short large intestines might be an adaptation to our special diet, but might also be the consequence of a tradeoff between investing in big brains and big intestines. Or some mix thereof. Along these lines, it has been suggested that our shift to eating more meat historically might have allowed investment in bigger brains which might, in turn, have required us to eat more meat so as to feed the bigger brain and simultaneously made our large intestines and their fermentation less necessary. This idea is interesting and many-layered and comes with a number of untested but testable predictions. It would be fun to explore the genes associated with the changes in the size of our large intestine and when and whether they underwent strong selection.

4-For a review of the ecology and evolution of primate guts, see the excellent work by my friend and colleague, Joanna Lambert. For example… Lambert JE. Primate nutritional ecology: feeding biology and diet at ecological and evolutionary scales. In Campbell C, Fuentes A, MacKinnon KC, Panger M, and Bearder S (eds): Primates in Perspective, 2nd Edition, Oxford University Press or Lambert, JE (1998) Primate digestion: interactions among anatomy, physiology, and feeding ecology. Evolutionary Anthropology. 7(1): 8-20.

5-Sometimes it takes a friend to say things just right. In defense of human guts, my friend Gregor Yanega at Pacific University offered, "Our guts are special because they are less specialized. They can accomodate so many changes in the foods that surround us, can accomodate unusual abundance and a certain amount of scarcity: we can even eat some of the world's more difficult foodstuffs: grains, leaves, and plants. Berries, nuts, meats, sugars, those are easy. Eating them together is pretty rare."

6-I know, what I have shown is not that our ancestors were vegetarians but instead that they tended to mostly eat vegetable matter. Here though I am using the definition of vegetarian that most humans use where someone is a vegetarian if they decline meat in public but occasionally, when no one is looking, sneak a beef jerky. The modern vegetarian's illicit beef jerky is the ancestral vegetarian's crunchy frog.

For another take on the troubles with looking to history for idealized answers to our modern problems see Marlene Zuk's great article in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20essa.html

[Constance]

This was very timely.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86731-Examples-of-Mind-Control-in-Nature

Tony Wright has some theories about the link between our diet and our evolution

Here is what he has to say about men in particular.

8mwjrpfmn7E

This is his website

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/

An investigation into the evolution of the human brain.
A journey to the edge of the human mind.



The human brain, over a period of perhaps a million years, expanded at an increasingly rapid rate then, some 200,000 years ago, this expansion suddenly stopped. There is, to date, no plausible scientific explanation for either of these linked events.
Religious and mythic traditions of paradise inform us that we once lived in a benign state of perpetual wonder and joy but from this we regressed. The reasons for this are obscure. Do these apparently unrelated perspectives have something in common?
The new theory presented here and in Left In The Dark proposes the extraordinary evolution of our brain was influenced by changes in the activity of our own hormones. Such a seemingly innocuous idea has dramatic ramifications. It not only explains a number of recently uncovered anomalies within the human mind, but also makes sense of the stories of human degeneration that are preserved in virtually all cultural myths and religions from around the world.
Both perspectives tell the same unexpected and shocking story, humanity is suffering from a progressive neurodegenerative condition that has distorted our perception and altered our sense of self. This seemingly dire situation however has a positive side ,we still have unimaginable potential just waiting to be unlocked. There is a very real possibility of regaining our lost perceptual heritage.

‘Release the genius inside you – Shut down your brain’ announced the cover of the New Scientist in April 2004.
For the last three years scientists at the Centre for the Mind have been attempting to find out if a higher level of mental functioning may be available to all of us. Professor Allan Snyder has proposed that such functions are latent in everyone and are suppressed by the activity of the ‘evolutionary advanced’ rational side of the brain. By ‘switching off’ the left side of the brain, they hoped to turn ‘normal’ people into ‘geniuses’.

Initially treated with scepticism, recent results have caused shock waves in the scientific community. It appears that a whole new layer of function lies dormant in all of us. Have they found the key to our future evolution or have they unknowingly unlocked an ancient mystery that has its origins in prehistory?

A new theory of human evolution, proposed by Tony Wright and Graham Gynn in ‘Left in the Dark’, convincingly argues that the human brain owes part of its extraordinary development to the biochemistry of a specialist fruit diet. The hormone-related chemicals in tropical fruit initiated an internal hormone mechanism that increasingly promoted brain growth and elevated neural activity. When humans were forced from their tropical forest ‘Garden of Eden’ some two hundred thousand years ago, this link with biochemically rich fruit was lost.

The internal hormone mechanism that fuelled brain expansion stalled, and the process went into reverse. This caused a breakdown in part of the brain; some functions were lost and our sense of self changed for the worse – a golden age descended in stages to our present materialist, fear-based age of plastic and Prozac. These neurological effects are now being revealed and verified by today’s cutting edge science.

Professor Allan Snyder has suggested that the rational/conceptual mind functions by editing out much of the raw data (reality) that we gather via all our senses. He believes that many processes and skills are lost in this screening. The latest results from the Centre for the Mind do indeed show that if the rational brain areas are ‘shut down’ enhanced artistic and mathematical ability and improved memory emerge. These skills mirror those of autistic savants and also occur in some patients in which the left hemisphere has been damaged. Snyder thinks the human brain has ‘traded in’ these skills for the benefits of the logical reasoning mind. However his research may be beginning to uncover a much larger story. A number of his subjects have reported perceptual changes too – feelings of euphoria and bliss more normally associated with ‘peak experiences’ and meditation.

If the rational mind suppresses a ‘second self’ that, not only has a number of enhanced skills but also a sense of self that is vibrant, peaceful and connected, could there be something wrong with it? Could it be that all our stressful, niggling mental activity really does hide a place of energetic calm and well-being? It can be no coincidence that religious practices from all traditions and ages have been designed to pacify or negate the activities of the logical mind to allow a different sense of consciousness to come through.

A New Perspective

Virtually all cultures preserve myths with an almost identical theme; that from a past golden age humanity has suffered a progressive degeneration. Is this near universal tradition based on real events? The answer appears to be ‘yes’. Recent scientific evidence supports the idea that we suffer from an inherited hormonal condition that has damaged part of our brain. In an unexpected twist, it is the damaged part that is not only driven to play the major role in telling us who we are but also dominates our basic biological functions.
Such a scenario explains some extraordinary anomalies that have emerged from research into how our brains function. It provides an underlying reason for the present crises in health, from the dysfunction of the immune system to the declining age of puberty. It also makes sense of the diverse mystic and religious practices that are said to lead to enlightened states or ‘oneness with God’.
If our common experience of near constant low-level fear and anxiety is actually a consequence of a neurological disorder, there may be a fundamental solution to the problem. We all know that fear, distrust and a lack of connection lead to conflict and ultimately war. Such a solution therefore could be of crucial importance to our global future.

[Akasha]

This was very timely.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86731-Examples-of-Mind-Control-in-Nature

Tony Wright has some theories about the link between our diet and our evolution

Here is what he has to say about men in particular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwjrpfmn7E

This is his website

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/

An investigation into the evolution of the human brain.
A journey to the edge of the human mind.

Thanks sooo much for introducing me to Tony Wright. I've just ordered his book......... and a special thanks for the other valuable recent posts too!

Incidentally I posted on Janette here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65910-Couple-In-Their-Sixties-Running-a-Marathon-a-Day-For-a-Year---) a couple of years ago.

[Constance]

Thanks sooo much for introducing me to Tony Wright. I've just ordered his book......... and a special thanks for the other valuable recent posts too!

Incidentally I posted on Janette here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65910-Couple-In-Their-Sixties-Running-a-Marathon-a-Day-For-a-Year---) a couple of years ago.

:bearhug: You are very welcome Akasha :bearhug:


Yes. I had friends who volunteered at different points around Australia for Janette and Alan to help them out. Some even drove hundreds of kilometres to assist!

[Constance]

Here is an interview with Tony Wright. He talks about the common threads that are the underlying cause for the human condition.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OVDRYcA_sk

[tnkayaker]

when I was 18 I knew I had to change something I was gaining weight and didn't like how I looked went total vegan and lost 35lbs and over the years have gone back and forth but now for sure vegan and not going back I do get cravings but I wait a while and it changes to something vegan old programming stays with you a long time maybe your whole life but im thin still and don't have meat issues like having a bad scent about myself I haven't used deodorant in 40 years once I opened my pores and stopped eating meat there was little by products coming out of me and I would ask my fellow waiters if I I needed to use anything and they always said u don't smell like anything they all knew about my eating healthy ,no fried foods, no fast foods, only extra virgin olive oil ,whole grain breads and such etc, im def a fan of the lifestyle good luck with the threads/posts I hope to read some good stuff ,I can add a few things along the way once I think about it I cooked professionally for years but I still ate vegan lol peace,d

[promezeus]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/35d8d24c4f8ad379e7cbb7fa120064ae/tumblr_nxgqb7QZpn1tl8u0ko1_540.gif

[Constance]

http://cholesteroldeception.squarespace.com/blog/2015/11/14/health-benefits-of-eating-raw-food-1.html


HEALTH BENEFITS OF EATING RAW FOOD
Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 03:19AM
At both a personal and scientific level I have no doubt about the health benefits of increasing the raw component in your food. There is growing scientific evidence that a higher consumption of raw, plant-based foods is beneficial to human health. Increased consumption of raw foods can lead to a reduction in allergies and strengthening of the immune system. As a result, the risk of cancer and other chronic diseases is reduced. Other health benefits such as a lower Body Mass Index (BMl), lower blood pressure, and beneficial levels of lipids, lipoproteins, glucose, insulin, HDL cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and triglycerides can also be attributed to raw food consumption. Raw diets lead to a decrease in obesity and cardiovascular disease through less consumption of processed carbohydrates and sugars. All of the people I have encouraged to consume more raw food, usually through having a vegetable smoothie have all lost weight and reported more energy. An increase in raw vegetable protein also decreases bone loss and the risk of bone fractures.

In a study of blood pressure for 2,195 participants, intakes of both total raw and total cooked vegetables were inversely related to BP. However, the study found raw vegetables had a stronger effect on blood pressure than cooked vegetables. In a study that followed 32 individuals on diets containing at least 40% uncooked foods (vegetables, seeds, nuts, fruits, and certified raw milk) for six months; intakes were significantly associated with lower blood pressure of participants but increased to previous levels when switched from high raw food diets back to cooked diets (without altering caloric or Na intake). You might recall the raw blood pressure smoothie I wrote about last year. Just by having a raw vegetable smoothie peoples blood pressure dropped by as much as 50 mmHg. Such large drops in blood pressure are unheard of in medicine. A recent cohort study of 20,000 men and women in the Netherlands, using food frequency questionnaire data on seven raw vegetables and 13 cooked vegetables, reported that raw vegetable intake was significantly inversely associated with ischemic stroke and raw fruit and vegetable consumption was also inversely related to coronary heart disease.

Studies of patients suffering fibromyalgia showed a marked improvement in their condition after following a raw food diet. Improvements included better sleep and digestion, along with less pain, fatigue, anxiety and depression. The reversal of chronic metabolic acidosis, as well as improvements in people suffering from diabetes, can be achieved through a raw diet.

A raw food diet also results in numerous mental benefits. Eating raw foods leads to better sleep and hormone regulation. One report found that patients who were suffering from anxiety, depression and eating disorders showed significant improvement in their condition after beginning a raw food diet.

Overall raw food has the potential to have a major positive impact on our health and out lives and the benefits are derived not just from the additional nutrients and improved digestion but also from exposure to a lower level of cooking based toxins.

Pre-digestion

Pre-digestion by food enzymes occurs in every creature on earth, the only exception is humans on a cooked enzyme-deficient diet. When we eat raw foods, physical contact, heat and moisture in the mouth activate the enzymes in the food. Once active, these enzymes digest a significant portion of what we ingest.

The stomach has two distinctive sections – the upper Fundus and the lower Pylorus. The bolus of food remains in the upper part, the fundus for up to one hour where predigestion of raw foods takes place. All raw foods come with their own digestive enzymes, thus saving the pancreas from supplying all the enzymes needed for digestion. You don’t want to waste too much of our “Life Force”. Cooked foods, which have no enzymes as the break down around 48oC, must wait in the Fundus and can only rely on enzymes from the pancreas, which means a lot more work for our body, and the feeling of fatigue after eating a big cooked meal.

There are two zones of protein digestion in the stomach one has a pH of 1-2.5 at which, the enzyme pepsin is most active. The other zone with a pH of 3.3-4 at which, the enzymes naturally occurring in raw foods are still active. The amount of digestion in both zones is approximately equal. For example, raw meat has its own supply of cathepsin so if you eat raw meat like all other carnivorous or omnivorous animal, up to 50% of the digestion occurs before it even comes in contact with the pepsin from the gut. The same happens with plant based proteins. Digestion can continue without the use of our body's own digestive enzymes when the pH changes in the intestines allowing the foods natural digestive enzymes to become active again.

Enzymes are essential for the digestive process and when food is cooked the naturally occurring enzymes are destroyed, meaning that the digestive system has to work so much harder to digest food. Additionally, digestive enzymes help to cleanse our colon – foods that are not digested properly are stored in our colon and digestive problems can begin. Undigested protein putrefies, carbohydrates ferment, and fats turn rancid in our colon. Unpleasant isn't it?

The most obvious symptoms of enzyme deficiency are easily identified, particularly after meals, which can include:

Acid reflux.

Heartburn.

Bloating, gas and cramping.

Constipation and poor elimination.

Diarrhoea.

Cooking food can have a negative effect on digestion, by both destroying enzymes and other nutrients that aid in the digestive process such that heat and processing, reduces the amount of co-factors and co-enzymes, which are essential for efficient digestion. Co-factors are inorganic microntrients, which includes, zinc, iron and copper, which are important for the function of many digestive enzymes. Co-enzymes are organic molecules, such as vitamins, that also assist in digestion.

Digestive Enzymes cleanse our colon. Foods that are not digested properly are stored in our colon and digestive problems can begin. Undigested protein putrefies, carbohydrates ferment, and fats turn rancid in our colon. The enzymes from live raw foods prevent this from happening. Excess enzymes from these foods can also be absorbed into the blood and assist with numerous health conditions, including attacking cancer and viruses.

Poor or inefficient digestion can cause a number of health conditions, ranging from arthritis to Azheimer's, to cardiovascular disease to cancer, as well as, diseases of the digestive system. An estimated 40% of Australians have lower gut disorders and one in five Australians is known to suffer from irritable bowel syndrome, and the number is on the rise. Other conditions of the digestive system include: colitis, Crohn's disease, leaky gut, gluten intolerance, bloating, acid reflux, heartburn, constipation, diarrhoea and food allergies. Other health problems that can develop as a result of poor digestion include: fatigue, yeast overgrowth, acne, depression, obesity, high blood pressure, circulatory problems, chronic inflammation and auto-immune disorders.

Enzymes are literally the life force and it is well established the higher the supply of enzymes you have in your body, the slower you will age and the more resistant you are against degenerative diseases. In general the duration of life varies inversely with our enzyme activity and the older we get, the weaker our enzyme activity becomes - this is not just an indication of lost enzyme potential, but a reduction in the enzyme potential of the whole body, both digestive and metabolic enzymes.

If you take you health seriously I suggest start with a raw plant based smoothie each day. You might be surprised at not only how good it is for you but also how quickly you can make it.

[Akasha]

Vegan diet misinterpreted and misrepresented as calorie restriction by yet another failed vegan…..who just happens to have a new book out at the moment too….hmmmmm:

NeBFP6t-DaY

[promezeus]

Having experiemented with all diets but having been long time vegan myself, I can say that there is a difference between the usual vegan diet and the usual meat based diet that has gone unnoticed by most. The difference is yin and yang. Meat is generally yang and vegetables are generally yin, so vegan diet tends to be yin unless cooking and salt are used judiciously.
So the failures of vegan diet can be mostly attributed to this lack of understanding. Vegan diets can be just as tasty as meat based diets when the use of cooking and salt is understood and applied as did our asian and indian vegan ancestors.

[iamnoone]

Thanks PeterPam! Sorry for the late reply! I broke my leg a few weeks ago and have been holed up in a hospital bed. You're not weak at all, speaking out, living free, is almost impossible in this world as we know it. Anything any of us can do in this space requires enormous courage and a huge leap of faith. I'm just very grateful for the opportunity to join with others who feel the same way, to feel the love, support and respect I don't get from my actual community so thank you for your very kind words, you've just made my day :)

[iamnoone]

Comment moved!

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Vegan diet misinterpreted and misrepresented as calorie restriction by yet another failed vegan…..who just happens to have a new book out at the moment too….hmmmmm:

NeBFP6t-DaY

I'm guessing the meateaters love a shocking vegan story. It assuages their guilt and any pressure they may be experiencing to convert...

[Constance]

Here is something that I came across on my desk today and is for all those who fully embrace a plant-based diet.
Warning!! It is very brutal and to the point. This guy, does not take any prisoners.:blackwidow: :shielddeflect:




There are a lot of ignorant and arrogant people who want to challenge those on a vegan diet. Many want to argue ‘scientific facts’ and debate ‘dietary and nutritional principles’. However, the one Law that bypasses all such conflict and confusion is that all living Beings share the One Spirit. If anyone is unable to perceive Spirit as a whole, then it stands to reason that they will not be able to see the whole Truth in any other aspect of Life.

Many people say they are upset from having been abused for being a vegan. However, much of the time, these people inadvertently brought on the abuse by trying to convince and convert someone who wasn’t genuinely interested. It is essential to understand that you don’t try to ‘help’ someone wake up or get healthier UNLESS they specifically ask you to do so! Even then, you are required to read their intentions and communicate based on the depth of their conviction. It is pointless trying to communicate with someone who is not ready, willing or able to be sensitive to the suffering of animals used to produce ‘food’.

Ultimately, the barbarism of killing and eating animals should be self-evident, indisputable and undeniable. However, not everyone is aware that all living forms are in fact the Self in another form. It never occurs to most people that the true meaning of the word spiritual is to honour the spirit-you-all.

It may be hard to imagine how someone could go through life and never connect with the Presence within a creature - but many people simply do not have the pathways to be able to have that experience. This state is a direct result of consuming animal products!

If everyone did have the pathways required to genuinely honour and revere all forms of Life as the expression of the One Spirit, then this conversation wouldn’t even be necessary. So don’t waste your breath arguing and debating anything that should go without saying. There is never any need to debate or argue with anyone who is void of all Reference Points of Truth.

No one in their Right Mind would ever cause harm to another living Being, but humanity is now so far removed from its natural state that those seeking to live and share the Truth are being vehemently opposed. Therefore, if you ever find yourself being accused by a fool, just smile and wave as you walk away.

Just live by example and remember that humanity is stuck in The Human Condition through no fault of its own. Stand silently in your Truth, and only share it with those who are awake - and show compassion for those that aren’t yet aware.
Brian Gerard Schaefer

[tnkayaker]

Eating meat is the #1 taboo on ProjectAvalon and I wonder why.
Are we insidiously being manipulated in being Vegan? Why is being Vegan so closely linked to spirituality?

In human terms, we seem te be on top of the food chain. We are also highly dependant on it. On the short term, a vegan diet kan clense the body very much.
For a longer time, we will see a lot of infirtility problems. Being vegan simply is NOT sufficiënt for a human body.

The people of earth knew this. THERE IS NOT 1 KNOWN PRIMITIVE FOLK WHO LIVED VEGAN. NOT EVEN VEGETARIAN!! They all lived highly on animal fats and organ meats.
These people where highly developed spiritualy, mentally, fysically and emotionally. They where one with nature and the animal life and where capable of keeping themselves healthy for thousands of years.

For reference: Check Weston Price for his pictures of these people and his findings. The photo's he made of these people are highly illustrative.
its not about being on the top its about being in alignment with more than we can understand ourselves, and this doesn't have to do with killing animals for protein ,its an old and adulterated theory that ancestors passed down, eat meat or u wont be strong, strength comes from with in not fed necessarily from a meat or food we consumed, we bring this energy up from with in from the understandings we live by , not necessarily by what we just ate, its a totally different way of understanding why we eat what we eat and all of the things connected to it, as a professional chef for many years I have seen and heard all the arguments , it simply comes from with in that's the only way I can explain it, u know ur done with it and want to seek other fun flavors not involved with commercial killing of animals and a better way to align ones self with better thoughts and energies that's the only way I can say whats coming from my heart right now, buts thanks and hope we all think before we put something down our gullets, lol peace,d

[promezeus]

Here is something that I came across on my FB page today and is for all those who fully embrace a plant-based diet.
Warning!! It is very brutal and to the point. This guy, does not take any prisoners.:blackwidow: :shielddeflect:


There are a lot of ignorant and arrogant people who want to challenge those on a vegan diet. Many want to argue ‘scientific facts’ and debate ‘dietary and nutritional principles’. However, the one Law that bypasses all such conflict and confusion is that all living Beings share the One Spirit. If anyone is unable to perceive Spirit as a whole, then it stands to reason that they will not be able to see the whole Truth in any other aspect of Life.

Many people say they are upset from having been abused for being a vegan. However, much of the time, these people inadvertently brought on the abuse by trying to convince and convert someone who wasn’t genuinely interested. It is essential to understand that you don’t try to ‘help’ someone wake up or get healthier UNLESS they specifically ask you to do so! Even then, you are required to read their intentions and communicate based on the depth of their conviction. It is pointless trying to communicate with someone who is not ready, willing or able to be sensitive to the suffering of animals used to produce ‘food’.

Ultimately, the barbarism of killing and eating animals should be self-evident, indisputable and undeniable. However, not everyone is aware that all living forms are in fact the Self in another form. It never occurs to most people that the true meaning of the word spiritual is to honour the spirit-you-all.

It may be hard to imagine how someone could go through life and never connect with the Presence within a creature - but many people simply do not have the pathways to be able to have that experience. This state is a direct result of consuming animal products!

If everyone did have the pathways required to genuinely honour and revere all forms of Life as the expression of the One Spirit, then this conversation wouldn’t even be necessary. So don’t waste your breath arguing and debating anything that should go without saying. There is never any need to debate or argue with anyone who is void of all Reference Points of Truth.

No one in their Right Mind would ever cause harm to another living Being, but humanity is now so far removed from its natural state that those seeking to live and share the Truth are being vehemently opposed. Therefore, if you ever find yourself being accused by a fool, just smile and wave as you walk away.

Just live by example and remember that humanity is stuck in The Human Condition through no fault of its own. Stand silently in your Truth, and only share it with those who are awake - and show compassion for those that aren’t yet aware.
Brian Gerard Schaefer

this guy is a deluded, typical new ager. Obviously some beings/animals were created to be carnivores. Their whole phyisical design is shaped and suited for it. HOwever human beings are not designed like that as others have shown. Our intestines, our teeth, etc We have 4 carnivore teeth out of 36, so maybe it could be said that up to 10% of our diet could be animal products if we wanted.

[Akasha]

These look bl**dy dangerous so I thought I'd share:

tbihTFu13LQ

[Constance]

Check out what Dr. Flanagan has to say at around the 14:00 mark where his cat goes vegan! (the cat lived for nearly 20 years)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdrCxZzPvlo

[Akasha]

Check out what Dr. Flanagan has to say at around the 14:00 mark where his cat goes vegan! (the cat lived for nearly 20 years)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdrCxZzPvlo

When Patrick mentioned his cat preferring meat treated with pyramid power, I was thinking yeah yeah, assuming that was the point you were highlighting. Imagine my surprise when he continued to share how after sleeping in a pyramid bed for 6 months, it became vegan. Bonkers!!! Any pyramid experts care to chime in on reasons that might have happened?

[Constance]

Krishnananda, at the 1936 Allahabad Kumbha Mela, with his tame vegetarian lioness.

http://www.yogananda.net/ay/lion.jpg

[Constance]

Little Tyke - The vegetarian Lion

http://www.vegetarismus.com/vegepet/tyke.htm

http://www.vegetarismus.com/vegepet/images/tyke.jpg


At four years old, the mature African lioness weighed 352 pounds. Her body stretched 10 feet 4 inches long and could run 40 miles per hour. Her skull, highly adapted to killing and eating prey, possessed short powerful jaws. Normally, African lions eat gnus, zebras, gazelles, impalas, and giraffes. This particular big cat, in her prime and perfect health, chose a more gentle way of life, vegetarian!

A Violent Birth
Georges and Margaret Westbeau, standing outside the thick steel bars of the cage, watched nervously. Inside, a vicious, raging beast baring razor claws and glistening fangs, roared. Flinging herself at the couple, who watched from barely three feet away, her suffering amber eyes defied their presence.
Always, in the past, this lioness destroyed her offspring as soon as they were born. Four times in the last seven years, her powerful jaws had crushed her newborn cubs, furiously throwing them against her cage's bars where they tumbled, lifeless.
Denying the normal instincts of motherhood, what possessed this lioness? Her life mocked its former freedom. She lived a caged animal, taken from the wild and tortured by those who captured her. Did she feel that by destroying her cubs they would be spared the humiliation that she endured?
Suddenly, the newborn cub came flying towards the people anxiously watching. Georges quickly grabbed the cub through the bars before it could be killed. Its right front leg dangled helplessly from its mother's brutal jaws. In the face of such fury the only thing the human could say was, 'You poor little tike'.
The Westbeaus took the three-pound 'Little Tyke' to their Hidden Valley Ranch near Seattle and there it joined the menagerie of other animals including horses, cattle, and chickens. Curious peacocks lined the housetop, kittens peered through a picket fence, and two terriers danced with joy for the new addition to the household.
Drinking bottles of warm milk, Little Tyke began the long road to recovery.

Mysterious reaction
With the advice of experts the Westbeaus began weaning Little Tyke onto solid food at three months. Leaving only a favorite doll, they removed most of her rubber toys, replacing them with bones from freshly slaughtered beef. They carried the small cub to the bones. Unexpectedly, she violently threw up!
Experts told them in no uncertain terms that lions couldn't live without meat. In the wild, lions ate only flesh - eleven pounds a day for an adult female. Alarmed at Little Tyke's strange behavior, they wondered at how they could introduce meat into her diet? In the meantime, they continued feeding Little Tyke baby cereal mixed with milk.
A well meaning friend suggested mixing beef blood with milk, in increasing proportions. Given milk containing ten drops of blood, Little Tyke would have nothing to do with it. They mixed in five drops of blood, and hid that bottle. As she sucked on the plain milk they quickly switched bottles. Again she refused it. In desperation they added one drop of blood to a full bottle of milk, but Little Tyke refused this bottle as well, and they could only stare in amazement.
Another friend suggested putting plain milk in one hand, and milk mixed with hamburger in the palm of the other hand. Little Tyke readily licked the milk from one hand, but when Georges changed hands, she immediately turned away. Sensing her distress, Georges wiped his hands on a nearby towel and picked her up. Hissing in fear and cringing away, she looked sick from the danger-smell of meat on his hand. She only settled down when given a fresh bottle of milk held in washed hands.

Thousand-dollar reward
At nine months old and weighing sixty-five pounds, Little Tyke had the splints and bandages on her leg taken off for the last time. She slowly learned to depend on the healed leg, and mingled with other animals on the ranch.
Since the ranch didn't earn enough income to make ends meet, the Westbeaus ran a small cold storage plant in town. Little Tyke came with them when they went to work and word got around about this vegetarian lioness. When she was four years old, the Westbeaus advertised a thousand dollar reward for anyone who could devise a method tricking Little Tyke into eating meat. Numerous plans met with failure since Little Tyke refused to have anything to do with flesh.

The answer
The caretakers of this gentle animal sought out animal experts, always asking them about diet. Finally, one young visitor set their mind at ease. With serious eyes he turned to them and asked, 'Don't you read your Bible? Read Genisis 1:30, and you will get your answer.' At his first opportunity Georges read in astonishment, 'And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.' At that point, after four years, the Westbeaus finally stopped worrying.

Little Tyke's meals
A typical meal consisted of various grains, chosen for their protein, calcium, fats, and roughage. Margaret always cooked a few days' supply ahead of time. At feeding time, a double handful of the cooked grains along with one-half gallon of milk with two eggs, supplied Little Tyke a delicious meal. She had one condition before eating. Her favorite rubber doll had to be right next to her!


Little Tyke with Becky
For teeth and gums, the Westbeaus supplied rubber boots, since she refused bones. They attracted her to the boots by sprinkling them with perfume. One boot lasted almost a month.
Little Tyke had many close animal friends. Her favorites were Pinky (a kitten), Imp (another kitten), Becky (a lamb) and Baby (a fawn). Her favorite and closest friend, however, was Becky, who preferred Little Tyke's company to any of the other animals.

National publicity
You Asked For It, the popular television show hosted by Art Baker, once featured Little Tyke. The producers wanted a scene with chickens, which didn't bother Georges since Little Tyke roamed easily among chickens at Hidden Valley Ranch. When the film crew brought the chickens in, they turned out to be four little day-old chicks!

Slurp of the tongue
Little Tyke's only previous experience with new chicks had been with a hen and her chicks who had wandered onto the lawns around their home on the ranch. Georges thought nothing of it until he saw Little Tyke acting peculiarly, slinking into the house, and looking guilty with lips tightly closed over obviously open jaws. He called 'Tyke! What have you got?' Instantly her mouth opened and a little chick popped out, unharmed. Flapping it's little down-covered wings, it almost flew back to its upset mother. Apparently Little Tyke had affectionately licked the tiny chick, as she was prone to do when, with one huge slurp of the tongue, the little chick had popped into her mouth, and she hadn't known how to fondle it further!
With the amazed camera crew filming, Little Tyke strode over to the chicks, hesitated long enough to lick the chicks carefully and gently with the very tip of her tongue, and moved away with a yawn. A moment later she came back to lie down among the chicks. They immediately made their way into the long silky hair at the base of her great neck where they peered out from the shelter of their great protector.
Another scene saw a new kitten, after an introduction, walk over to Little Tyke's huge foreleg and sit down. Little Tyke crooked one paw around the tiny creature and cuddled it closer.
In front of cameras, Art Baker picked up the Bible and read: 'The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock.'
Mail poured into the producers, making this episode one of the most popular in the show's history.

Little Tyke's death
Unfortunately, while spending three weeks in Hollywood for the show, Little Tyke contracted virus pneumonia, a disease that took her life a few weeks later. The sudden change in climate may have been a contributing factor. She succumbed quietly in her sleep, retiring early after watching television.

Inspiring to this day
Her life is over, but her teachings live on. Of the many lessons she taught, not the least is that love removes fear and savagery. Little Tyke reflected the love and care shown to her after the first few moments of her precarious birth.
Thousands saw photographs of her lying with her lamb friend, Becky, inspiring many to see the world a fresh way: two such diverse natures enjoying each other's love! One eminent attorney kept a huge enlargement of this photograph in his office, and pointed to it as he counciled couples on the verge of divorce.

Scientific dilemma
Science is at a loss when it comes to Little Tyke. Felines are the strictest of carnivores. Without flesh she should have developed blindness, as well as dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), a degenerative disease that turns heart muscles flabby and limits their ability to pump blood. This is because her diet didn't contain an adequate source of the amino acid, taurine.
Little known in the 1950's, subsequent research at UC Davis in 1976 proved that taurine is an essential nutrient for felines, the lack of which would cause degeneration of the retina. later research implicated inadequate taurine levels in dilated cardiomyopathy as well. For cats with DCM, if the disease has not progressed too far, administering taurine causes an almost miraculous recovery. Formerly, cats lived only a few days to weeks after diagnose.
Taurine is non-existent in natural non-animal sources. It is present in minute amounts in milk and eggs. Little Tyke could have gotten her taurine requirement from milk, if she drank 500 gallons per day, or from eggs, if she ate more than 4000 per day. How did Little Tyke get taurine?

Challenge
Perhaps even more important, why did Little Tyke disown her species' instincts? Little Tyke is a curiosity to the public, aberation to zoologists, anomaly to scientists, and an inspiration to idealists.

Little Tyke wasn't alone. A photograph taken at Allahabad, India in 1936 shows another awesome lioness.
In Autobiography of a Yogi, Paramahansa Yogananda wrote:
...Our group left the peaceful hermitage to greet a near-by swami, Krishnananda, a handsome monk with rosy cheeks and impressive shoulders. Reclining near him was a tame lioness. Succumbing to the monk's spiritual charm - not, I am sure, to his powerful physique! - the jungle animal refuses all meat in favor of rice and milk. The swami has taught the tawny-haired beast to utter "Aum" in a deep, attractive growl - a cat devotee!
These vegetarian lionesses are lion lights. By example, these luminaries invite us as well to discover a less violent world, turning away from slaughterhouses that fed our dogs and cats prior to this age of enlightenment.

The article is from the book "Vegetarian Cats & Dogs" by James A. Peden.
There's also a book about Little Tyke, titled "Little Tyke" by Georges Westbeau available from the Theosophical Society in England, Phone (800) 669 9425.

[Constance]

I am cross-posting this documentary because this is very revealing.

This is an incredible look at how our genes can be altered by environmental conditions.


Pembrey and Begran had the first conclusive proof of an environmental effect inherited in humans. The impact of a famine being captured by the genes in the eggs and sperm and a memory of this event was being carried forward to affect the grandchildren generations later.
We are changing the view of what inheritance is. You can't in life, in ordinary development and living, separate out the gene from the environmental effect, they are so intertwined. Pembrey and Begrans work showed clearly what our grandparents ate could affect our health. Increasingly it appeared that all sorts of environmental events were capable of affecting the genes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1x8IWacUiI

[Akasha]

Why is it that many of those that supposedly support hunting go out of their way to kill the real hunters? (caution: frequent 'f' bombs, after all, the author is very passionate about the subject) :

sHcKWPxqEd8

[Akasha]

Lots of good news in this week's episode of Plant Based News:

NDUL4itxTQ8

[tnkayaker]

Alegro Vegitarian Pot(atoe) Roast .....


i have been using the alegro marinade line of botteld seasoning for years now, and in the season of over eating, i thought id offer up a flavorful pot roast that has low calories and protien and doesnt have any meat for those that want a filling meal and not too many calories, ok so here it is,
alegro makes a few differnt kinds of hot and spicy bottles of marinade, i use the orange lable one ,says hot and spicy on it but its not really that hot and spicy, this basically is conpromised of soy sauce, a dash of sugar, dried onion, and dried garlic,lime juice,salt and peper, and some dried heat of some kind,

it doesnt say on the label , but i think it is some kind of crushed chili paste or powder, so if u cant find this product make some up and use it in the same manner, i use about 1/4 cup of alegro, and a cup and a 1/2 of water, dash of salt in the liquid in a smaller saue pot, that u can put a lid on,

i guess it would be called a 1 quart or 2 quart sauce pan deoending on how many ppl ur feeding, i add small potatoes, called salt potatoes, ( thats whay they r calld here),u can use redskins but the ones that look white and r small size work best for some reason, add a half of white onion roughy cut, one carrot, but in big peices, a bit of fresh tyme, and rosmary, and a bay leaf if u like that, i do sometimes, add a few roma tomatoes whole washed of course just liek everything else u put in as u will not strain this, so think ahead on that one,

for this recipe anyways,

then add some tomato sauce of some kind, a cup of ragu, or what ever u have, u can always improvise on this ingrediant, i like to put in white beans and some kind of pasta, now u can use spagetii that u made the previous night and cut it into bite size peices, or make some shell pasta or any kind of pasta in anohter pot, cook to directions then strain and add into the roast pot,

let this come to a boil then turn it down to low simmer and watch until the potatoes start to split apart, then ull know every thing is ready, thats it, it ususaly takes about 15 mins, from start to finsh, u can eat it like a thick soup, or stew, or strain the components with a slotted spoon, and serve with other things, anything u want, but it is not afdvised to mix ur starches, so dont mix rice with potatoes,

books say its better for digestion and ur body to break down one kidna starch at a time, u could bake a whole chicken in the oven if u want a larger meal , but i make this when im hungry and want something lighter, but full of flavor and hearty even though it doenst have any meat, good luck and enjoy, if u have any questions let me know id be glad to help out,
peace,dennis

[Akasha]

Is humanity collectively suffering from a certain eating disorder?

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[Akasha]

I've long speculated that our collective increased resistance to antibiotics is partly a response to the massive increase in their being administered to livestock over more recent years. Doctors are busy laying the blame at lackadaisical patients who forget to finish their courses and of course there is much truth in that, however there is an elephant (or rather cow, chicken and pig) in the living room which up until now appears to have gone unnoticed, at least in the eyes of the consumer.

https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/images/4/47/Naturally-yours-antibiotics-animals.jpg


Antibiotic use in food fuels resistance to vital drugs – report (The Guardian - 8.12.2015)

The use of antibiotics in agriculture is fuelling drug resistance and must be cut back or even banned where they are important for humans, a report commissioned by David Cameron has warned.

The Review on Antimicrobial Resistance said global use of antimicrobials in food production at least matched that by humans, extending even to the widespread application in some areas of “last resort” antibiotics for humans – which cannot be replaced when ineffective – to animals.

Just as rising levels of human use of antibiotics are leading to growing resistance, the same is happening in agriculture, the review said in its latest paper, published on Tuesday. It acknowledges that the proper use of antibiotics is essential for treating infections in animals, as in humans, and offers considerable benefits for food production. But the authors say that “excessive and inappropriate” deployment, including to stop development of infections within a flock or herd, or simply to increase the pace at which animals gain weight, is a problem.

Jim O’Neill, the economist and former chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management who is chairing the review, said: “I find it staggering that in many countries, most of the consumption of antibiotics is in animals rather than humans. This creates a big resistance risk for everyone, which was highlighted by the recent Chinese finding of resistance to colistin, an important last-resort antibiotic that has been used extensively in animals......Read more here (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/08/antibiotic-use-food-fuels-humans-resistance-vital-drugs-report)

There is an informative resource page on the subject here (https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Antibiotic_Use_for_Farm_Animals) at Microbe Wiki. Here's it's conclusion:



The two main uses of antibiotics in livestock is to fight bacterial infections and to promote growth. Both of these aim to produce a healthier stock of animals. Because humans eat the majority of these animals, we are exposed to traces of the different antibiotics that the livestock consume. This has lead to the growth of resistant bacteria in humans. Because of concerns over increasing antibiotic resistance, there have been some moves to contain usage. Since 1970’s the FDA has known about misuse of antibiotics in agriculture yet little has been done until recently. Starting in 1970, a task force from the Food and Drug Administration in the US recommended that some human antibiotics should not be used in animals. From this point on, more information has become available about the usage and affects of antibiotics in farm animals and how it affects humans. While the European Union banned antibiotic use for growth production in 2006, the FDA did not do the same until early 2012. Antibiotic resistance is likely to diminish or lessen in prevalence and strength when antibiotic use is decreased or continued. Many of the antibiotics given to animals are of the same class as those used to treat human infections. While some people debate the argument that antibiotic use in livestock production is the only cause of human antibiotic resistance, it is certainly proven to be a main cause.

[Akasha]

So Arnie just went from this:

989BuHYwZiw

to this (caution: one f-bomb near the end of the video):

5aOGuPZKkzs

He might even be vegan by next year. Who knows? Fingers crossed! One thing's for sure - considering the projected increase in global population, push is going to come to shove sooner or later (probably sooner).

[Baby Steps]

a carbon tax on MEAT, that is what I say!!

[Akasha]

a carbon tax on MEAT, that is what I say!!

Just removing all the subsidies on meat and dairy would go a long way to addressing the issue. Many cite the cost of being vegan as a reason not to make the transition, but if meat and dairy were actually sold for the price it cost, there would be far fewer customers. The image below illustrates, in billions of dollars, the scale of the phenomenon back in 2012:

http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Screen-Shot-2014-01-15-at-10.40.49-AM.png


…..Direct Meat Subsidies

Many governments directly subsidize animal agriculture ventures by paying farmers for each animal they have, providing as much as 40 percent of the cost of new animal housing, and directly subsidizing fodder crop businesses (which make the animal feed costs much lower for farmers). The sums of money we’re talking about here are shocking and “these subsidies are often distributed true to the motto: the bigger the company, the higher the subsidy.” This means that vast sums of money are being paid to huge multinational companies, helping them to increase their profits, whilst simultaneously sentencing more and more animals to the horrific conditions of these factory farms…..

Full article here (http://www.care2.com/causes/the-true-cost-of-meat-demystifying-agricultural-subsidies.html)

[Akasha]

Melanie Joy (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83021-All-Things-Vegan-&p=972162&viewfull=1#post972162) just did a TED presentation. Concise, comprehensive and compelling as ever:

O_zR4qD7-po

[promezeus]

Melanie Joy just did a TED presentation. Concise, comprehensive and compelling as ever:


I thought it was the least compelling speech I ever heard promoting veganism. Just goes to show how 2 advanced degrees can turn someone into a highly respected blithering academic. And I've been mostly vegan for some 50 years.

[Akasha]

Veganism is the red pill:

S8lH7pWhjz8

[Akasha]

Melanie Joy just did a TED presentation. Concise, comprehensive and compelling as ever:


I thought it was the least compelling speech I ever heard promoting veganism.....

Sharing the most compelling one you've heard would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance :)

[promezeus]

Melanie Joy just did a TED presentation. Concise, comprehensive and compelling as ever:


I thought it was the least compelling speech I ever heard promoting veganism.....

Sharing the most compelling one you've heard would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance :)

hi akasha,
well I don't remember names of videos after all these years of being vegan as I don't watch them unless posted someplace like here.

I already posted brief reasons why humans are natural vegans
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83021-All-Things-Vegan-&p=1020420&viewfull=1#post1020420
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83021-All-Things-Vegan-&p=1020075&viewfull=1#post1020075

[Hip Hipnotist]

Melanie Joy just did a TED presentation. Concise, comprehensive and compelling as ever:


I thought it was the least compelling speech I ever heard promoting veganism. Just goes to show how 2 advanced degrees can turn someone into a highly respected blithering academic. And I've been mostly vegan for some 50 years.

"Blithering academics" usually get standing ovations.

I'm waiting with baited ( vegan ) breath for your 'almost 50 year a mostly vegan' presentation.

Jeez. :facepalm:

[promezeus]

akasha, you might find this guy's vids interesting as he is vegan md with lots of clinical experience.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

[Akasha]

.....At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?” ~ Rumi.....

.....We may share our love for animals while inwardly calling a meat-eater a murderer......

The author is clearly confused.

[giovonni]

.....At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?” ~ Rumi.....

.....We may share our love for animals while inwardly calling a meat-eater a murderer......

The author is clearly confused.

And injecting your personal opinion into the author piece is confusing as well.

Takes all kinds ... :(

[Akasha]

.....At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?” ~ Rumi.....

.....We may share our love for animals while inwardly calling a meat-eater a murderer......

The author is clearly confused.



And injecting your personal opinion into the author piece is confusing as well.

Takes all kinds ... :(

Not my personal opinion. The glaring contradiction between her words and choice of quotes is all her own work.

[giovonni]

And injecting your personal opinion into the author piece is confusing as well.

Takes all kinds ... :(

Not my personal opinion. The glaring contradiction between her words and choice of quotes is all her own work.

Correct ...

But does adding your observational opinion only really add to the snobbery she is speaking of ?

It is my observation - that all human beings (including Gandhi himself) have often acted out in confusing contradictions.

[thunder24]

.....At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?” ~ Rumi.....

.....We may share our love for animals while inwardly calling a meat-eater a murderer......

The author is clearly confused.

now i confused, can you please expand on your comment

[Akasha]

Not my personal opinion. The glaring contradiction between her words and choice of quotes is all her own work.

Correct ...

But does adding your observational opinion only really add to the snobbery she is speaking of ?

It is my observation - that all human beings (including Gandhi himself) have often acted out in confusing contradictions.

Look Giovonni, I'm not here to criticize her until she chooses to criticize someone for the grand crime of living vegan.

She was so incensed by the fact that one of her vegan yoga students decided to stop financing her ongoing funding of the suffering of innocents, totally under the misguided illusion that it was all about her. It wasn't. Her student wasn't doing it to be snobby - he was doing it because veganism is about choosing to opt out of animal suffering where-ever and when-ever possible. If that includes changing your yoga instructor to one who is more compassionate then so be it (even if it means back pain - that's called sacrifice, not snobbery).

And regarding her illusory perspective on meat and its inextricable link with murder, until we have such luxuries as lab' meat commercially available, I'm afraid meat is and will continue to be as such. If I'm a snob for merely pointing out simple facts such as that, then so be it too.

(could you indicate your emboldening of my text in future. It's a little misrepresentative - cheers)

[Akasha]

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I'm not sure if I added this video correctly, but it's Mark Passeo's excellent analysis of the new Age meme and it's implications and motivations. One aspect of it is the use of meditation and Yoga. In essence he is saying those practices while beneficial are distorted and used to keep people focused on them selves and away from taking any real action in the world. The New Age meme, like the Hippie meme (see Weird Science in the Canyon, by David McGowan) are filled with paradoxes, like the one you point out, because it is not based on universal truths, but spun out by Government Intel operatives to manipulate the masses. The New Age meme is social engineering, using the same old manipulations wrapped in new paper; that some people are better than other people. In our society they teach, advertise, those with money, a certain skin color, an education or beauty are better. With the New Age meme it's what level of density one is from, what color their aura is, how spiritually evolved they are. As you noted these people are making judgments based on Yoga and food choices. They are doing just what the spin doctors want. Focus on the individual and not the structure, because if we did we would tare it down in a day.

Interesting that you are referencing Mark Passio since, whilst highlighting much of the new-age movement as B.S, food choices, as you so euphemistically put it, was not one of the subjects he tackled in that regard. Quite the contrary in fact. His presentations on carnism are well known here on Avalon. He was also careful to ensure that those phoning into to his show in defense of carnism should first watch Earthlings. I've linked to that at the bottom too:

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4txSH7ThXPE

vtLttQ-kgYw

VQSkZiEnMck

VlNXG1_gheI

[Lifebringer]

Wow sounds like strict constructive teaching. I like Avalon because people respect your voice here, if you've something to post.

[Lifebringer]

Oh my God they are savages. I feel so heart, why can't they use a guillotine and end the suffering if they must have animal flesh. Even a fish's head is cut off first on the shore and put on ice after rinsing These karmetic horrors I see, are the reason for what is coming to man, and boy oh boy their cry is heard on high because they are closer to God than we are in consciousness. OMG, I've cut down to chicken but even that is now a problem and slowly but surely as I find vitamin and protein intake to stay healthy, I'm becoming a vegan and using tofu, and mushrooms for fillers on the meat. Soups, and broths are better for the digestive tract anyway.
God have mercy on their souls, I too used to work at tysons, but they had a system of decapitation right after hanging in a dark room to lull chickens to sleep before the sling blade sliced through like Indiana Jones booby trap. It was the taking them out the crates, and hanging room that were occasionally a problem if a cage got caught up, or hanger was taking things out on chickens(squishing them by hand and shooting poo out the bird. They do this to new recruits to get them prepared for chicken crap.

[giovonni]

Correct ...

But does adding your observational opinion only really add to the snobbery she is speaking of ?

It is my observation - that all human beings (including Gandhi himself) have often acted out in confusing contradictions.

Look Giovonni, I'm not here to criticize her until she chooses to criticize someone for the grand crime of living vegan.

She was so incensed by the fact that one of her vegan yoga students decided to stop financing her ongoing funding of the suffering of innocents, totally under the misguided illusion that it was all about her. It wasn't. Her student wasn't doing it to be snobby - he was doing it because veganism is about choosing to opt out of animal suffering where-ever and when-ever possible. If that includes changing your yoga instructor to one who is more compassionate then so be it (even if it means back pain - that's called sacrifice, not snobbery).

And regarding her illusory perspective on meat and its inextricable link with murder, until we have such luxuries as lab' meat commercially available, I'm afraid meat is and will continue to be as such. If I'm a snob for merely pointing out simple facts such as that, then so be it too.

(could you indicate your emboldening of my text in future. It's a little misrepresentative - cheers)

I saw you coming at your first post Akasha ...

This would not be the first time on the forum yov'ue tried to turn something into about eating meat ...

This is one for you ... :)


hmm ...

Meet the Beast Burger

'More protein than beef, more iron than steak, more omegas than salmon,
more calcium than milk ...

No wonder Bill Gates and others have invested millions in Beyond Meat's products.'

BeyondMeat (http://www.beyondmeat.com/)

Published on Dec 8, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UI1tnO2aAY

[giovonni]

Correct ...

But does adding your observational opinion only really add to the snobbery she is speaking of ?

It is my observation - that all human beings (including Gandhi himself) have often acted out in confusing contradictions.

Look Giovonni, I'm not here to criticize her until she chooses to criticize someone for the grand crime of living vegan.

She was so incensed by the fact that one of her vegan yoga students decided to stop financing her ongoing funding of the suffering of innocents, totally under the misguided illusion that it was all about her. It wasn't. Her student wasn't doing it to be snobby - he was doing it because veganism is about choosing to opt out of animal suffering where-ever and when-ever possible. If that includes changing your yoga instructor to one who is more compassionate then so be it (even if it means back pain - that's called sacrifice, not snobbery).

And regarding her illusory perspective on meat and its inextricable link with murder, until we have such luxuries as lab' meat commercially available, I'm afraid meat is and will continue to be as such. If I'm a snob for merely pointing out simple facts such as that, then so be it too.

(could you indicate your emboldening of my text in future. It's a little misrepresentative - cheers)

Then I'm supposing you only do commerce with non meat eaters Akasha ?

[giovonni]

And by the way, I choose not to eat meat.

[Lifebringer]

I'm diggin the "Beyond Meat" thingy. "I'll bite!";)

[TargeT]

If I'm a snob for merely pointing out simple facts such as that, then so be it too.


your a snob only because you assume your passion and what you speak of are facts, and not opinions.



Here's 24 seconds of visual explanation:
SWrG6l-5CAg


You're doing this thread justice however, nothing like a vegan for "snobbery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snob)" exemplification.

[Akasha]

…..Then I'm supposing you only do commerce with non meat eaters Akasha ?

Sadly, not always, but I vote with my feet where-ever and when-ever possible. I did boycott a local health food shop recently, making it clear that I'd return my custom when she stopped selling meat. After a couple of months, she stopped. I could have been nonjudgmental and continued my custom with her despite her selling meat and she'd probably still be selling it now. Instead, I chose to voice my opinion. There was a positive effect.

I agree with much of what the O.P said, especially about love and light and all that crap but when she can't see the conflict between her diet and her desire for a world with more love and kindness, I'll speak up.

[Akasha]

If I'm a snob for merely pointing out simple facts such as that, then so be it too.


your a snob only because you assume your passion and what you speak of are facts, and not opinions…..

…..You're doing this thread justice however, nothing like a vegan for "snobbery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snob)" exemplification.

Explain to me how meat being inextricably linked to murder is just an opinion, dear TargeT.

Your definition of a snob says:


a person who believes there is a correlation between social status and human worth

I'm interested in neither nor the correlation between them. I continue to voice my opinion in opposition to the most brutal violence against the innocent. That's all. I couldn't give a rat's a*** how that helps my social status or my human worth (whatever that is!).

[TargeT]

If I'm a snob for merely pointing out simple facts such as that, then so be it too.


your a snob only because you assume your passion and what you speak of are facts, and not opinions…..

Explain to me how meat being inextricably linked to murder is just an opinion, dear TargeT.

You're fallacious use of the word "Murder" is the perfect example.

Just for a refresher:


Murder is the killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse, and it is especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder)




I continue to voice my opinion in opposition to the most brutal violence against the innocent.

Why not support your only species first?


You know who the most annoying people in the world are? those that shove their opinions into topics that are barely related to them... That group is JUST behind the "black lives matter" type of group that runs into public settings and disrupts events by shouting their mantra to try and get attention.

It's juvenile behavior and shows a complete lack of understanding on human nature, how cognitive processes work and just plain simple Rhetoric.

in summary:

Your efforts could be re-directed to a higher effect, I applaud that you are attempting to break out of the typical "vegan echo chamber" that most vegan's tend to pigeon hole themselves into; but really... this thread was about attitudes like yours "I'm better because I'm vegan, your worse because you rape babies and eat bunnies"; that's why I think your participation is vaguely ironic.

[Akasha]

…..You're fallacious use of the word "Murder" is the perfect example…..

If the word murder had not been defined within a speciesist environment, it would have encompassed all sentient life.


…..Explain to me how meat being inextricably linked to murder is just an opinion…..

If I interchange the word murder with premeditated killing of all with the ability to suffer ,there is a very real link to meat which I'm sure you can accept as beyond my opinion.

Re supporting my species, we represent the majority of the biomass on this planet, so no need for extra support there.


I applaud that you are attempting to break out of the typical "vegan echo chamber" that most vegan's tend to pigeon hole themselves into; but really... this thread was about attitudes like yours "I'm better because I'm vegan, your worse because you rape babies and eat bunnies"; that's why I think your participation is vaguely ironic.


Your last statement is vaguely ironic since I don't have that attitude (although it seems you're determined to project that image on to me). As I've said previously I don't consider myself better or worse. I just want the unnecessary suffering of animals to stop as soon as possible.

[TargeT]

…..You're fallacious use of the word "Murder" is the perfect example…..

If the word murder had not been defined within a speciesist environment, it would have encompassed all sentient life.

Then make a new word up for the situation, a good term for the basis of a theory is important when discussing the theory; trying to twist a word and use a previously established emotional impact is just very manipulative and not accurate at all.



…..Explain to me how meat being inextricably linked to murder is just an opinion…..

If I interchange the word murder with premeditated killing of all with the ability to suffer ,there is a very real link to meat which I'm sure you can accept as beyond my opinion.

Killing all with the ability to suffer? .. no, I cannot accept that statement as is. The word "all" is a tough one to use in any definitions (any is hard too)... you need a less exaggerated and more focused and nuanced argument (which doesn't get the same attention, right?)




Re supporting my species, we represent the majority of the biomass on this planet, so no need for extra support there.

You know you can LITERALLY google ANYTHING? we live in an age where a good portion of all human knowledge is at your finger tips via smartphone, or any computer with an internet connection (which is the majority).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass_(ecology)

we do NOT represent the majority of the biomass on this planet, Humans are not even CLOSE!



I don't have that attitude

Maybe you don't, but you use the same language tricks "they" use, you use a lot of the same "catch phrases" and are well versed in that infosphere; it had to have influenced you... perhaps you consciously do not support that attitude, but your actions do, the subconscious is programmed by its environment.... the level you have inundated your self in that culture (veganism) has undoubtedly effected your subconscious.

your mind is like your body, too much of anyone thing is bad, especially if it's an "ism".

[Akasha]

.....we do NOT represent the majority of the biomass on this planet, Humans are not even CLOSE.....

Correct. I made a mistake. I Meant to say we represent a significant percentage of the megafauna biomass. Certainly significant enough not to warrant concern.


.....too much of anyone thing is bad, especially if it's an "ism".

That would include carnism too, right?

[giovonni]

just passing it along ...

**** New Age Meat Eaters Say To Vegans

"Special note for those who get offended, just get over it!"

Published on Dec 12, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drG1-zxnnNc

[norman]

As far as I know, life eats life to live.

Obviously, there's a chicken n egg paradox there somewhere, but I can't find it.

[Flash]

Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter, what matter are your own development, with or without meat, but without at certain places in the development process may make it easier.

I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men, for having eaten humans in masses for millions of years. Not the other way around.(having animals suffer may be another thing altogether when it comes to karma).

It is part of evolution on this planet, eating meat.

It is part of evolution on this planet to have to deal with spiritual snobery as well. The ego misconduct that is said to be one of the most difficult to get rid of.



Paul, that video is freaking awesome.

This thread is quite close to the idea of spiritual materialism.

They both deal with situations where new age seekers imagine or delude themselves to have acquired some kind of artefacts of achievement, worn like a badge! (Hence material).

I can stick my leg behind my neck and don't eat meat, therefore I have gained spiritual "rank".

If that is your deal, then surely it is obvious that you are progressing in a hierarchical fashion - superiors and inferiors - this is a service to self trait, not a service to others trait.

It is not material, it is immaterial.

To me spiritual snobbery, or spiritual materialism is a trap of delusion. A pretty obvious one when you have seen yourself in it a few times - I know I have :)

I agree 100% with forgetting about badges and poses. In the context of the golden rule, they are, to coin your word whilst utilizing it's other meaning, immaterial.

However, it's difficult, impossible even (for me at least) to forget about diet in the context of the golden rule.

Of course the golden rule is also immaterial, but will it adopt the first definition or the second?

[Akasha]

…..In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter…..

…..I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men…..

Are you able to share who told you this?

[Flash]

The first one was a master ((mastering her own being) who was using her talent as a spiritual meeting organiser (small groups) and was also a massotherapist i had 28 years ago (she was curing people by her sheer presence and hands imposition before Reiki existed). She also became a friend but died 20 years ago. she is the first one who told me not to worry about meat, explained to me the vibrational work and told me that in cold climates as ours here, we should not be so adamant about meat eating or not.

The second one was another master, who is teaching, not known much (small groups only). He is the one who eplained that it makes it easier to be a vegetarian at certain places in one's development, but was not a necessity and mostly not advised for everyone, depending on the genetic make up (we are always thinking of cold climates here, and body made for these climates). Then, a bit later (few years), he mentioned that the animal kingdom had eaten humans for aons, and karma was playing when we were eating them back.

Two things that are very detrimental to spiritual development: Fear, Under all its aspects, and guilt (it makes one be in the victim/perpetrator vicious circle). Putting guilt on those eating meat is in fact, from my bird view of the human psyche, hampering the human spiritual development.

Awareness offered about animal suffering and vibrations is one thing, accusing meat eaters of being killers is entirely another one, which is playing with manipulation to instill guilt, consciously or not. In my views of course.

We need awareness, not accusations and guilt or anger creating speeches.



…..In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter…..

…..I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men…..

Are you able to share who told you this?

You are from Hungary as I read. Hungary is quite temperate. It is easier to live on a veges only diet and your bodies are not made, through générations, to survive in harsh winters when there is about no veges available, as it is the case in lots of Russia, Scandinavia, Middle West in the USA, and Canada. Our veges and fruits here are all imported in winter - have been trucked for thousands of miles, picked not ripe and put chemical to get them ripe upon arrival, often radiated, not counting the pesticides used for cultivating. Fast freeze food is much better in nutrient content. Just to tell you. I cannot even imagine an Inuit trying to be vegetarian, They will end up really sick with lack of proteins. Their diet is entirely based on hunting and fishing and seal meat, etc. No fruits or veges there.

[promezeus]

My favorite Vegan recipe:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSrJl1Dskzs&feature=youtu.be

[Akasha]

The first one was a master ((mastering her own being) who was using her talent as a spiritual meeting organiser (small groups) and was also a massotherapist i had 28 years ago (she was curing people by her sheer presence and hands imposition before Reiki existed). She also became a friend but died 20 years ago. she is the first one who told me not to worry about meat, explained to me the vibrational work and told me that in cold climates as ours here, we should not be so adamant about meat eating or not.

The second one was another master, who is teaching, not known much (small groups only). He is the one who eplained that it makes it easier to be a vegetarian at certain places in one's development, but was not a necessity and mostly not advised for everyone, depending on the genetic make up (we are always thinking of cold climates here, and body made for these climates). Then, a bit later (few years), he mentioned that the animal kingdom had eaten humans for aons, and karma was playing when we were eating them back.

Two things that are very detrimental to spiritual development: Fear, Under all its aspects, and guilt (it makes one be in the victim/perpetrator vicious circle). Putting guilt on those eating meat is in fact, from my bird view of the human psyche, hampering the human spiritual development.

Awareness offered about animal suffering and vibrations is one thing, accusing meat eaters of being killers is entirely another one, which is playing with manipulation to instill guilt, consciously or not. In my views of course.

We need awareness, not accusations and guilt or anger creating speeches.



…..In fact, I did ask that questions many times and a few times was answered that it does not matter…..

…..I was also told that the animals are going through karma when eaten by men…..

Are you able to share who told you this?

You are from Hungary as I read. Hungary is quite temperate. It is easier to live on a veges only diet and your bodies are not made, through générations, to survive in harsh winters when there is about no veges available, as it is the case in lots of Russia, Scandinavia, Middle West in the USA, and Canada. Our veges and fruits here are all imported in winter - have been trucked for thousands of miles, picked not ripe and put chemical to get them ripe upon arrival, often radiated, not counting the pesticides used for cultivating. Fast freeze food is much better in nutrient content. Just to tell you. I cannot even imagine an Inuit trying to be vegetarian, They will end up really sick with lack of proteins. Their diet is entirely based on hunting and fishing and seal meat, etc. No fruits or veges there.

Thanks for sharing that, Flash.

Regarding karma, don't you think that repaying animals' killing of humans with more killing of animals will just result in the wheel continuing to rotate around instead of upwards? Is it possible that the increasing number of people like me are an indication that this karmic debt has been repaid? I don't know - just thinking out loud.

Regarding guilt, ignorance is bliss. Becoming conscious of wrong action is becoming aware of guilt. Doing something about it goes someway to alleviating it. You can't "put guilt" on people if it doesn't already exist. Nothing wrong with bringing something to someone's attention especially if there is an innocent, suffering third party in the equation.
I didn't like being told I was a killer either. My dislike didn't make it a false statement though, no matter how unpleasant it made me feel…..and being repeatedly exposed to that unpleasant truth ultimately made me think differently.

Regarding victims, it's the animals.

I think you're brave to take someone else's word that it's ok to take sentient life, no matter how enlightened that someone appears to be. Personally, I've not met a single one that could convince me yet, regardless of the caliber of their spiritual gymnastics. Gurus who say what people want to hear are always more popular.

I'm actually English although I do live in Hungary. Until the last few years, winters over here could easily drop to minus 20 degrees Celsius. Even so, heated greenhouses would and still do supply pretty much all of Hungary's vegetable needs through the winter months as I'm sure is the case in most if not all of the countries you mentioned too. Of course it's not as ideal as sun-ripened food and the increase in price reflects the overheads of such operations. I appreciate that a proportion of the veggies are going to be imported where it is more economical to do so too, but over here they are a small minority of the winter veggies.

[Flash]

regarding guilt, you have not been raised catholic, the guilt masters lollllllllllllllllllllll

Whatever I write Akasha, you wil turn it around to make sure your point is won. And i will not play that game.

Take what I write as face value, from a good intentioned heart, and that is it. I do not need to be right at any price, all the time. And I am sorry if you seem to need to be right at all time regarding being vegan.

To me, it looks more like a religion when presented that way than something purely sensible. But hey, this is your life, and on the other side of the world, this is mine.

And if you think I have been doing spiritual gymnastic with false gurus, as if I do not experience and work myself on myself, well, up to you to judge others, based on I do not know what criteria. But i certainly do not need to tell you more while answering a question of yours, to be turned into a judgment.

Opening one's heart for its fellow human being seems to be appropriate here. Without it, there is no exchange possible.

[KiwiElf]

Geee does this mean that other animals shouldn't eat each other too? :) Sorry, it's NATURE.

[Akasha]

.....if you think I have been doing spiritual gymnastic with false gurus, as if I do not experience and work myself on myself, well, up to you to judge others, based on I do not know what criteria. But i certainly do not need to tell you more while answering a question of yours, to be turned into a judgment.

Opening one's heart for its fellow human being seems to be appropriate here. Without it, there is no exchange possible.

I don't think you are doing spiritual gymnastics. I think those who you profess to follow are.

To take Yoga Sutras of Patanjali 2.35 (http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-23545.htm#2.35) as an example:


As a Yogi becomes firmly grounded in non-injury (ahimsa), other people who come near will naturally lose any feelings of hostility.
(ahimsa pratishthayam tat vaira-tyagah)

Those who can interpret that the way your masters have done are performing very elaborate gymnastics, not to mention a great disservice to the original text.

It says very plainly, non-injury. Anyone who can turn that around 180 degrees to mean injury, and then employ all manner of karmic and cosmic shenanigans to support their arguments so that they and their followers can continue killing sentient, suffering beings is abusing their position.


Take what I write as face value, from a good intentioned heart,

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but you already knew that cliche, right?

If you listen to your heart, I guarantee it doesn't want any part in the meat industry.

[Akasha]

Geee does this mean that other animals shouldn't eat each other too? :) Sorry, it's NATURE.

Good point, KiwiElf. I think we should start marking our territory with urine and greeting one another by sniffing each others' backsides too.:)

[promezeus]

Good point, KiwiElf. I think we should start marking our territory with urine and greeting one another by sniffing each others' backsides too.:)

I agree akasha. How come animals get to do all that fun stuff ?

My dog laughs when I pee in the toilet.

[Akasha]

PLANT BASED NEWS (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJRjK20fHylJyf-HiBtqI2w) presents Vegan 2015 - The Film. A summary of this year in veganism and quite a year it's been! :

BYzlfPdpAeY

¤=[Post Update]=¤





Good point, KiwiElf. I think we should start marking our territory with urine and greeting one another by sniffing each others' backsides too.:)

I agree akasha. How come animals get to do all that fun stuff ?

My dog laughs when I pee in the toilet.

You pee in the toilet?!!!!

[giovonni]

così sia ... ;)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0f/80/c9/0f80c950d369cbbf9408fb6ab7f3296f.jpg

[Akasha]

Taking on SeaWorld, Circuses and the fight to free Lolita from the Miami Seaquarium is no small feat. But 12 year old animal activist Dominic Geragi is a 5-year veteran. Having successfully banned the use of bullhooks and electric prods at circuses in Margate, Florida, Dominic continues to speak out against the cruel captivity of animals in aquariums, circuses, zoos and amusement parks. He encouraged other kids to get involved with their communities and hopes to one day live in a world where all animals are free.

g65vZjLQZgs

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

My son visited me for the holidays. He lives in LA and his current girlfriend is a vegan animal rights activist. After some discussion and some research into the dairy and meat industries, I made the decision to avoid certain animal products. I still eat wild caught fish and hunted animals - if I know the fishermen and the hunters. My decision is simply to NOT support industries that cause unnecessary animal suffering and fear.

We are fortunate to live in a day and time in which our nutritional needs can be met without lots of animal products. i respect each persons choice, but I am surprised at the outright hostility that many people have towards veganism and/or vegetarianism. Maybe as a result of ingesting to much fear and violence themselves??

A happy New Year. May all beings be happy and free.

[DeDukshyn]

Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. ...

Just to add a similar in one sense, but somewhat different perspective ...

My dad was raised in Telkwa BC, a small town at the convergence of the Telkwa and Bulkley rivers, mid north BC. It is mostly a native community, and my father mostly ended up hanging out and learning from Native people; one of his foster parents I think may have been native as well. At the time, and in this place (Canada, -- long winters), being a vegan was neither practical, nor really desired anyway. At the time in that area most people hunted their own meat (1 moose can easily provide enough meat for a family of 5 for a year), and my dad learned a great many hunting tips from the natives, not the drunken ones you see begging for change, these people still had their connection to Gaia herself and their old ways. My dad was taught that when hunting, it is imperative that you kill the animal instantly, without them knowing your presence. Whether with a rifle or a bow, that means a one shot kill from a distance. The natives (at least what my dad conveyed) said that if the animal dies in fear and distress, the meat will be ruined, and the kill will be deemed improper.

On analysis, I took this to mean that the vibrations of fear in the meat itself, make the meat far less desirable for consumption; both physically and spiritually (meat from an animal that died in great fear and distress apparently doesn't taste as good either). This really makes some sense to me, and unfortunately with western agra practices, most, if not all of our current feed animals live their entire lives in fear and distress.

I support veganism as I think it just an important part of our evolution as meat eating has been (let's face it, it has been required for the survival of our species through the last ice age); at the same time I also do also find a certain "snobbery", as discussed when the view is made personal rather than keeping a broad perspective and respect level and care for all humans.

I don't condemn meat eating, (I am still rather omnivorous), but if I were to start somewhere, it would be to lead people away from anything from big agra to start with - both meat and your garbage GMO vegetables and grains. Go local and go organic. Next step would to go even more local - grow a good garden, and if you want meat, raise and process it yourself; this can be a fair bit of work, and might shift perspectives when you have to say, squeeze pig **** out of intestine tubes so you can make sausages or whatever - disgusting.

At the same time, many of those in northern climates can't easily take on veganism, as prices sometimes become unaffordable; even trying to get fruit to say Svalbard or somewhere in Nunavut is not really feasible in the winter. Oddly enough, the people who live in these climes already process much of their own meat, so they know what it is about and have accepted it -- fine with me.

My issue is with the horribly fear saturated meat 90% of us are buying from the grocery store ... if my interpretation of the natives that gave tips to my father is correct, it appears to me that there are better and far worse ways of utilizing the living creatures, when the become a necessity. Two meals with meat every day of the week is not remotely a necessity for the average desk clerk, pencil pusher, gas attendant, office worker, etc. It has been pushed on us by the industry and maintained, despite a changing landscape ...

Those who live closer to the land, with rugged, demanding lifestyles, in rugged demanding places on earth, that process their own meat - more power to you guys - I don't see the problem here, unlike our (purposely) reliance on the "fear factories" to get our meats.

Rambling thoughts .... :) and am I really the only one who liked the to****en video? I laughed my ass off!

[Hym]

I loved the To....en video too. Hilarious, given her calm and direct attitude about it all, but I wonder if she is even a vegan or a vegetarian, though I have known some heavy people in both.
I have friends who are hunters and guides who don't ever eat any meat from stores, because they get sick from it. They do have a profound reverence for the animals they eat and they use everything they get from the hunt. I was only worried for them when the wasting disease, akin to mad-cow disease, was found in the animals a little north of here, but they told me that you can tell when an animal has it by the way it moves and the way it looks.
Haven't had meat in 42 years and I'm probably more alive because of it. My reason for not eating meat was it, even when tasty and "healthy', cut into my endurance, speed, power and ultimately my ability to deeply relax.
When someone is an ass about us being vegetarian I tell them that in their case I just might consider a BBQ, if I get to prepare the meat...But really, who wants to eat the hind flank of an ass?

[DeDukshyn]

Hmmm ... BBQ ass flank you say ... ;)

[Hym]

Well, on second thought, Maybe I was wrong about that delicious, well-cooked, perfectly spiced, smoked ass....

[Mike]

Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. ...

Just to add a similar in one sense, but somewhat different perspective ...

My dad was raised in Telkwa BC, a small town at the convergence of the Telkwa and Bulkley rivers, mid north BC. It is mostly a native community, and my father mostly ended up hanging out and learning from Native people; one of his foster parents I think may have been native as well. At the time, and in this place (Canada, -- long winters), being a vegan was neither practical, nor really desired anyway. At the time in that area most people hunted their own meat (1 moose can easily provide enough meat for a family of 5 for a year), and my dad learned a great many hunting tips from the natives, not the drunken ones you see begging for change, these people still had their connection to Gaia herself and their old ways. My dad was taught that when hunting, it is imperative that you kill the animal instantly, without them knowing your presence. Whether with a rifle or a bow, that means a one shot kill from a distance. The natives (at least what my dad conveyed) said that if the animal dies in fear and distress, the meat will be ruined, and the kill will be deemed improper.

On analysis, I took this to mean that the vibrations of fear in the meat itself, make the meat far less desirable for consumption; both physically and spiritually (meat from an animal that died in great fear and distress apparently doesn't taste as good either). This really makes some sense to me, and unfortunately with western agra practices, most, if not all of our current feed animals live their entire lives in fear and distress.

I support veganism as I think it just an important part of our evolution as meat eating has been (let's face it, it has been required for the survival of our species through the last ice age); at the same time I also do also find a certain "snobbery", as discussed when the view is made personal rather than keeping a broad perspective and respect level and care for all humans.

I don't condemn meat eating, (I am still rather omnivorous), but if I were to start somewhere, it would be to lead people away from anything from big agra to start with - both meat and your garbage GMO vegetables and grains. Go local and go organic. Next step would to go even more local - grow a good garden, and if you want meat, raise and process it yourself; this can be a fair bit of work, and might shift perspectives when you have to say, squeeze pig **** out of intestine tubes so you can make sausages or whatever - disgusting.

At the same time, many of those in northern climates can't easily take on veganism, as prices sometimes become unaffordable; even trying to get fruit to say Svalbard or somewhere in Nunavut is not really feasible in the winter. Oddly enough, the people who live in these climes already process much of their own meat, so they know what it is about and have accepted it -- fine with me.

My issue is with the horribly fear saturated meat 90% of us are buying from the grocery store ... if my interpretation of the natives that gave tips to my father is correct, it appears to me that there are better and far worse ways of utilizing the living creatures, when the become a necessity. Two meals with meat every day of the week is not remotely a necessity for the average desk clerk, pencil pusher, gas attendant, office worker, etc. It has been pushed on us by the industry and maintained, despite a changing landscape ...

Those who live closer to the land, with rugged, demanding lifestyles, in rugged demanding places on earth, that process their own meat - more power to you guys - I don't see the problem here, unlike our (purposely) reliance on the "fear factories" to get our meats.

Rambling thoughts .... :) and am I really the only one who liked the to****en video? I laughed my ass off!


Hey great post here Duk!

One of the more balanced and realistic takes on this topic ive read in some time.

[Akasha]

Lots of spiritual masters (meaning those mastering their being into spiritual awakening) do not eat meat - because the vibrations of the animal who are of a lower development in the evolutionary scale, counteract their own developing vibrations, it has not much to do with killing. ...

Just to add a similar in one sense, but somewhat different perspective ...

My dad was raised in Telkwa BC, a small town at the convergence of the Telkwa and Bulkley rivers, mid north BC. It is mostly a native community, and my father mostly ended up hanging out and learning from Native people; one of his foster parents I think may have been native as well. At the time, and in this place (Canada, -- long winters), being a vegan was neither practical, nor really desired anyway. At the time in that area most people hunted their own meat (1 moose can easily provide enough meat for a family of 5 for a year), and my dad learned a great many hunting tips from the natives, not the drunken ones you see begging for change, these people still had their connection to Gaia herself and their old ways. My dad was taught that when hunting, it is imperative that you kill the animal instantly, without them knowing your presence. Whether with a rifle or a bow, that means a one shot kill from a distance. The natives (at least what my dad conveyed) said that if the animal dies in fear and distress, the meat will be ruined, and the kill will be deemed improper.

On analysis, I took this to mean that the vibrations of fear in the meat itself, make the meat far less desirable for consumption; both physically and spiritually (meat from an animal that died in great fear and distress apparently doesn't taste as good either). This really makes some sense to me, and unfortunately with western agra practices, most, if not all of our current feed animals live their entire lives in fear and distress.

I support veganism as I think it just an important part of our evolution as meat eating has been (let's face it, it has been required for the survival of our species through the last ice age); at the same time I also do also find a certain "snobbery", as discussed when the view is made personal rather than keeping a broad perspective and respect level and care for all humans.

I don't condemn meat eating, (I am still rather omnivorous), but if I were to start somewhere, it would be to lead people away from anything from big agra to start with - both meat and your garbage GMO vegetables and grains. Go local and go organic. Next step would to go even more local - grow a good garden, and if you want meat, raise and process it yourself; this can be a fair bit of work, and might shift perspectives when you have to say, squeeze pig **** out of intestine tubes so you can make sausages or whatever - disgusting.

At the same time, many of those in northern climates can't easily take on veganism, as prices sometimes become unaffordable; even trying to get fruit to say Svalbard or somewhere in Nunavut is not really feasible in the winter. Oddly enough, the people who live in these climes already process much of their own meat, so they know what it is about and have accepted it -- fine with me.

My issue is with the horribly fear saturated meat 90% of us are buying from the grocery store ... if my interpretation of the natives that gave tips to my father is correct, it appears to me that there are better and far worse ways of utilizing the living creatures, when the become a necessity. Two meals with meat every day of the week is not remotely a necessity for the average desk clerk, pencil pusher, gas attendant, office worker, etc. It has been pushed on us by the industry and maintained, despite a changing landscape ...

Those who live closer to the land, with rugged, demanding lifestyles, in rugged demanding places on earth, that process their own meat - more power to you guys - I don't see the problem here, unlike our (purposely) reliance on the "fear factories" to get our meats.

Rambling thoughts .... :) and am I really the only one who liked the to****en video? I laughed my ass off!

Granted, in the grand scheme of things, the problem is not hunting (unless you're the hunted), it's animal agriculture. Vegan activist, Will Tuttle elaborates:

PoTAKFIqNdE

[cecilmeyer]

I have been a vegetarian not vegan for about 30 years.The only animal product I still eat from time to time is cheese and eggs.I cannot speak for members on this forum but I will give my opinion why they and I believe eating meat is taboo.Some living creature has to die in our current age to supply meat.Lab grown is coming but still in its development stages.I guess most of us have empathy for the beings life that is being taken just for the sole purpose of the taste rather than survival.When I drive down the highway and see animals that are going to the slaughterhouses packed in cattle cars in subzero weather I can only think of when humanity has done the same thing to his fellow man not to used as food but as slaves.When you see these beings up close and see they have emotions, feelings and they suffer and feel fear your conscious will fully awaken and see what we are doing is truly wrong.We share this world with other beings and they have a right to thrive too.And no I do not believe a mosquito has a right to spread malaria or ticks have a right to spread disease.I am a hypocrite in that regard!!And finally I am 50 years old and have very little health issues I am not overweight and I am on no prescription drugs so eating vegetarian has been very good for my health and my conscience.Hope that helps and if you have any questions about being a vegetarian or a vegan please feel free to ask.

[cecilmeyer]

All I can say is incredible.This brilliant man is close to 100 and he looks great and has all his mental faculty's still with him.He looks much younger than my Grandfather who passed away at 70 and my Grandfather was bedridden and almost to a vegetative state when he died.I can only hope others will listen to what this man has to say.

[Akasha]

My favorite Vegan recipe:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSrJl1Dskzs&feature=youtu.be

Apologies for missing this amongst the turmoil of the festive period. To****en brilliant! Coincidentally, I did a marinated tofu bake today. Instructions below:

2 cups warm water

1 TBS vegan bouillon

1/4 cup finely chopped onion

4 cloves finely chopped garlic

1 TBS sugar

1 tsp salt

2 TBS olive oil

2 bay leaves

4 TBS soy sauce/tamari

1 block of tofu

First stir the dry and wet ingredients together in a jug (minus the tofu). Then squeeze the tofu between 2 plates to get rid of excess water. Then cut it in half and place in an oven-proof container. I find 2 loaf tins are best for this. One to contain the tofu and marinade and the other to act as the lid. After 30 minutes in a hot oven (200 degrees C 'ish' depending on the oven) the lid can be removed and after a further 15 minutes the tofu can be turned over to caramelize the bottom too. 15 minutes after that, it's done. The marinade will have reduced to a delicious gravy too. I normally bake a bunch of spuds at the same time to get more value out of the whole process.

Bon appetit!

[Akasha]

All I can say is incredible.This brilliant man is close to 100 and he looks great and has all his mental faculty's still with him.He looks much younger than my Grandfather who passed away at 70 and my Grandfather was bedridden and almost to a vegetative state when he died.I can only hope others will listen to what this man has to say.

A warm welcome to Avalon, Cecil. Is this the man you mentioned above?

hGQTpxjbwaM

[Akasha]

One of Neo HUMAN Eve (https://www.youtube.com/user/neohumaneve)'s audio-visual experiences, entitled The Vegan Zeitgeist. Fat bass, cool beats and imaginative visual editing come together to deliver a powerful message (watch on highest def' possible):

eCq2wb9KikA

[DeDukshyn]

I think I'm going to try this recipe today, "Curried roasted cauliflower and carrot soup" -- I've got some extra carrots and a cauliflower head that needs using, this should be perfect.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/228566/roasted-carrot-and-cauliflower-curried-soup/

I'll have to pick up some limes and coconut milk. I'll post back and give my opinion if I get this done.

[bettye198]

Great thread and good Q and A. And one big comment, we need not to go the direction of one thing, one lifestyle suits all. Especially since we are a mix of DNA and culture and belief systems. I say this with great respect for health as I manage my husbands nutritional practices in two locations. He studied with some very avant garde physicians and practitioners all his professional life crossing the United States to find who is not afraid to work with energetic means and nutritional means to attain perfect health. Perfect may be a misnomer but it is a goal that resides in our spiritual being while walking the Earth.

Everything we eat requires evaluation. And not all the food we THINK is good for us has issues we need to always consider. I will not go into all that but just share what we eat. Gluten free flours if we are creating a waffle or pancake. Happy organic free range eggs ( I probably would not be a happy vegan without an egg) lots of vegetables freshly cooked,organic beans, lentils, peas. Quinoa, millet and so far unsalted organic butter. I have not found the sheep or goat butter yet. Goat yogurt, Goat kefir, make our own almond milk. Smoothies rich with vegies and some fruit and coconut milk. I am rethinking organic chicken. No red meat. Fish rare. Raw nuts and seeds.Coconut creamer for anything needing milk product.

[DeDukshyn]

I think I'm going to try this recipe today, "Curried roasted cauliflower and carrot soup" -- I've got some extra carrots and a cauliflower head that needs using, this should be perfect.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/228566/roasted-carrot-and-cauliflower-curried-soup/

I'll have to pick up some limes and coconut milk. I'll post back and give my opinion if I get this done.

Well ... I ended up modifying it a lot (and doubled it) and ended up with a nice product. The recipe was a nice base. I added a red pepper, roasted sesame oil, garam masala and smoked paprika, forgot to buy broth - used an all vegetable -'chicken' bouillon, and a vegetable bouillon instead. Chopped a bunch of fresh basil in at the end. Turned out a bit tasting like a squash or pumpkin soup. I quite enjoyed it.

[Akasha]

I think I'm going to try this recipe today, "Curried roasted cauliflower and carrot soup" -- I've got some extra carrots and a cauliflower head that needs using, this should be perfect.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/228566/roasted-carrot-and-cauliflower-curried-soup/

I'll have to pick up some limes and coconut milk. I'll post back and give my opinion if I get this done.

Well ... I ended up modifying it a lot (and doubled it) and ended up with a nice product. The recipe was a nice base. I added a red pepper, roasted sesame oil, garam masala and smoked paprika, forgot to buy broth - used an all vegetable -'chicken' bouillon, and a vegetable bouillon instead. Chopped a bunch of fresh basil in at the end. Turned out a bit tasting like a squash or pumpkin soup. I quite enjoyed it.

Tweaking (no, not Miley Cyrus style dancing) is often the order of the day when dealing with online recipes. Sounds like your mod's made it more tasty for sure!

[Akasha]

Orcas at Seaworld are on cocktails of drugs including benzodiazepines and antipsychotics:


Many SeaWorld orcas were on daily drugs to treat chronic stress, several of the park's former trainers have told The Dodo.

"We had whales who were on medication every single day of their life," said John Hargrove, who was a trainer at SeaWorld San Diego and SeaWorld San Antonio for a combined 14 years.

Hargrove recently wrote a book about his experience at the park.

The Dodo spoke to Hargrove and former trainers Samantha Berg, John Jett, Carol Ray and Jeffrey Ventre about the medications they administered to captive orcas at SeaWorld's three parks.

From antipsychotics (to decrease testosterone) to benzodiazepines (to calm the animals), the orcas needed a wealth of drugs to survive in a tank, and some of the drugs were so powerful they even put humans administering them at risk, the trainers allege.

While supporters of orca captivity argue that these drugs help orcas stay healthy, marine mammal scientist Naomi Rose of the Animal Welfare Institute told The Dodo that life in a tank is the root of the problem....

Full article here (http://www.businessinsider.com/former-seaworld-trainers-on-whales-diets-2016-1)

[DeDukshyn]

Orcas at Seaworld are on cocktails of drugs including benzodiazepines and antipsychotics:


Many SeaWorld orcas were on daily drugs to treat chronic stress, several of the park's former trainers have told The Dodo.

"We had whales who were on medication every single day of their life," said John Hargrove, who was a trainer at SeaWorld San Diego and SeaWorld San Antonio for a combined 14 years.

Hargrove recently wrote a book about his experience at the park.

The Dodo spoke to Hargrove and former trainers Samantha Berg, John Jett, Carol Ray and Jeffrey Ventre about the medications they administered to captive orcas at SeaWorld's three parks.

From antipsychotics (to decrease testosterone) to benzodiazepines (to calm the animals), the orcas needed a wealth of drugs to survive in a tank, and some of the drugs were so powerful they even put humans administering them at risk, the trainers allege.

While supporters of orca captivity argue that these drugs help orcas stay healthy, marine mammal scientist Naomi Rose of the Animal Welfare Institute told The Dodo that life in a tank is the root of the problem....

Full article here (http://www.businessinsider.com/former-seaworld-trainers-on-whales-diets-2016-1)

While I do think "zoos" or whatever could be possibly made well accommodating for many animals, ones that normally would not survive in the wild for example, marine mammals are just not in that category. They need huge areas of ocean to live properly. A tank? That is just not right. No wonder they have to give them drugs to sedate them.

We should be going out to them to see them in their territory ... they seem to actually enjoy that anyway ...

QaihEthj4qs

Or ... it could be trying to lure him into the water ... :shocked:

[Akasha]

.....Or ... it could be trying to lure him into the water ... :shocked:

I certainly wouldn't put it past him.

But regardless, that clip trumps all Seaworld "performances" in existence. Thanks for sharing :).

[Akasha]

Why Vegan? Well there are a multitude of reasons, at least 150 billion per year (http://www.adaptt.org/killcounter.html) as it happens, not to mention all the ethical, ecological and health related issues. The following short presentation nails it (no graphic content so click away):

y2k4NHjAP84

[Akasha]

We're living in a nation
where there's growing condemnation
of what is done to those who cannot talk

I was blind to all their pain
so I couldn't feel the shame
in that broken piece of body on my fork

Then I wondered could any child
breed a bird that can't be wild
to eat its wings, take off its legs and head?
no.

So we pay for hidden slaughter
'til we've addicted sons and daughters
to our habit of eating the dead

And it's not so very long
since who could see the wrong
in breeding humans as slaves without pain

It could be a woman without a vote
or killing a leopard for its coat
did we ever see the evil of the day?

So do you think you're any better
now the animals we fetter
outnumber every human ten to one?

And many children hardly eat
because their food has fed your meat
while the blame for this shame you pass on

so give me avocados
and I'll eat tofu burgers
you can even give me black bean curd

but please, don't give me bread
if it's wrapping the dead
remains of the body of a bird………

Full recital of this powerful poem in the short video below

PbjOafxvU-o

[lunaflare]

Great thread and good Q and A. And one big comment, we need not to go the direction of one thing, one lifestyle suits all.
Agreed. Great thread. Veganism is way more than one lifestyle "suiting all", however.
The ramifications of adopting this mentality are literally world shattering. paradigm breaking.
It is the overt and covert cruelty directed at living creatures enslaved to slaughterhouses and factory farms, that blatantly reveal the state of our human consciousness.
The terror, grief and fear associated with killing animals powerfully contributes to the vibration here in this dimension.
Not for better, for worse.
Animals deserve dignity and respect, yes?
We don't need meat to survive. We have become addicted, mind-controlled and sufficiently compassionless to contribute to a grossly cruel industry.
And stupid. Animal products are not good for one's health.

[Olam]

I read this tread for a while, when I was at the phase of deciding what kind of diet I was to adopt now.
After doing lots of research I decided to go the Ketogenic type of diet which is radically different from Vegan.
I was pondering going vegan for a long while, but I just knew that I was not to be satisfied with what it offers.
To each his own and whatever diet one undertakes, as long as you are happy eating that way, I think its the most important detail.

Basically, it boils down to two choices of fuel for the body.
You either burn glucose (Vegan lifestyle and many others), or you burn ketones(fat).
When I saw the ketogenic lifestyle I just knew it was for me...but with some tweaks.
Some people on keto eat dairy products, coffee, I don't.
As far as the choice of meats as yes meat is essential in this type of diet, I also choose to be strict on that.
So right now I don't eat red meat as I have no source of grass fed beef around and I don't eat the meat from cows boxed in and fed genetic crap.
I do have organic chicken, butter and eggs and so this is what I get.
I only eat wild caught fish too.

Now I don't mean to derail this great thread, I'm just offering options to whomever are "shopping" around for a new diet lifestyle.

Lastly, one reason I chose this diet was for very practical reasons, if you are vegan, you burn glucose and so you have to deal with blood sugar rises, insulin variations and all the complications this can have on the system. If you eat a big bowl of fruits, you are bound to have somekind of sugar crash at some point and you have to eat more often.
When your body burns fat(ketones) instead of glucose, you have no insulin issues of sugar rising in the blood. The fat burns at a slow pace and so I only have 2 meals a day now and I am never hungry in between meals, I never have sudden losses of energy and its just more simpler for me!
Oh and the food is great as we all know what fat tastes like. I have not been on it long enough to see the effect on blood fat, but as far as I know, the people on this for years have actually very healthy blood as the body burns out the extra fat.
Anyhow, sorry for the rant, I just thought it would be pertinent to add this to the thread.

[Akasha]

.....Anyhow, sorry for the rant, I just thought it would be pertinent to add this to the thread.

Apology accepted, although this thread is fairly specifically labelled.

Now if you want to talk about vegan ketogenic diets, that would be a different story although those pioneering them seem few and far between, essentially getting by on avocados and nut butters and not much else.

If/when you start to have cardiovascular issues due to the quantity of LDL cholestrol you are consuming, perhaps you'd be good enough to let us know that all that animal fat wasn't such a good idea after all.

Dr. Kim A. Williams, president-elect of the American College of Cardiology takes a different approach:


Advice From a Vegan Cardiologist

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/08/05/health/well_cardiologist/well_cardiologist-articleInline-v2.jpg

Dr. Kim A. Williams, the president-elect of the American College of Cardiology, often sees patients who are overweight and struggling with hypertension, Type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol. One of the things he advises them to do is to change their diets.

Specifically, he tells them to go vegan.

Dr. Williams became a vegan in 2003 because he was concerned that his LDL cholesterol — the kind associated with an increased risk of heart disease — was too high. Dr. Williams wrote about his reasons for going vegan and his belief in the cardiovascular benefits of a plant-based diet in a recent essay at MedPage Today..... Full article here (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/advice-from-a-vegan-cardiologist/?_r=0)

Regarding the misconception, that fruit makes you crash, the data says the opposite. When fructose is consumed in whole form, i.e. eating the whole fruit raw and unrefined, the glycemic load is always sufficiently slow release and more than manageable for anyone with a normally functioning pancreas.
Of course refined sugars are an entirely different story and, as you say lead to inevitable "crashes".

Have you considered sharing your keto-experience over time in its own thread? Positive, or negative, it would be valuable for anyone considering such a diet. Just don't forget those blood tests!!!

[TargeT]

Finally, Vegan meat! (err... yeah?)

Y027yLT2QY0
http://www.memphismeats.com/

[Akasha]

Finally, Vegan meat! (err... yeah?)

Y027yLT2QY0
http://www.memphismeats.com/

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!

Ironically, being that authentic in taste would probably turn my stomach given that it's been such a long time since I ate meat. However it no doubt represents yet another viable transitional vehicle for many of those wishing to go plant-based, not to mention less cows being bred for slaughter and the ecological implications linked with that......which reminds me (again), did you manage to finish Cowspiracy (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82470-Cowspiracy-the-sustainability-secret--2014-&p=964377&viewfull=1#post964377) yet (or shall I just stop asking:silent:)?

[Olam]

.....Anyhow, sorry for the rant, I just thought it would be pertinent to add this to the thread.

Apology accepted, although this thread is fairly specifically labelled.

Now if you want to talk about vegan ketogenic diets, that would be a different story although those pioneering them seem few and far between, essentially getting by on avocados and nut butters and not much else.

If/when you start to have cardiovascular issues due to the quantity of LDL cholestrol you are consuming, perhaps you'd be good enough to let us know that all that animal fat wasn't such a good idea after all.

Dr. Kim A. Williams, president-elect of the American College of Cardiology takes a different approach:


Advice From a Vegan Cardiologist

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/08/05/health/well_cardiologist/well_cardiologist-articleInline-v2.jpg

Dr. Kim A. Williams, the president-elect of the American College of Cardiology, often sees patients who are overweight and struggling with hypertension, Type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol. One of the things he advises them to do is to change their diets.

Specifically, he tells them to go vegan.

Dr. Williams became a vegan in 2003 because he was concerned that his LDL cholesterol — the kind associated with an increased risk of heart disease — was too high. Dr. Williams wrote about his reasons for going vegan and his belief in the cardiovascular benefits of a plant-based diet in a recent essay at MedPage Today..... Full article here (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/advice-from-a-vegan-cardiologist/?_r=0)

Regarding the misconception, that fruit makes you crash, the data says the opposite. When fructose is consumed in whole form, i.e. eating the whole fruit raw and unrefined, the glycemic load is always sufficiently slow release and more than manageable for anyone with a normally functioning pancreas.
Of course refined sugars are an entirely different story and, as you say lead to inevitable "crashes".

Have you considered sharing your keto-experience over time in its own thread? Positive, or negative, it would be valuable for anyone considering such a diet. Just don't forget those blood tests!!!

Thanks for your info, yes I am now getting the papers for a blood test, but the real answer will be sometime in a few months to see how it has changed.

[Enola]

http://bridgetnielsen.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/listen-to-your-body-eat-less-dense-food-and-get-free-energy.jpg

[Akasha]

A high class Swiss restaurant is expanding its range of dishes:

HuC0uZ28hTI

https://www.latablesuisse.com/

[TargeT]

ryET4YCiwgg

:ROFL:

[Akasha]

….. the more we got involved, I said oh my gosh, casein, if we use the criteria which is used for determining what's a carcinogen, casein is the most relevant chemical carcinogen ever identified. Make no mistake about it!.....

T. Colin Campbell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Colin_Campbell)

xEWAf6sOGv0

[Akasha]

ryET4YCiwgg

:ROFL:

Oooh, you troll, you!

Btw, how's that Cowspiracy rebuttal coming along?

[TargeT]

Oooh, you troll, you!

Btw, how's that Cowspiracy rebuttal coming along?

You gotta watch his one on becoming gluten intolerant... his has a few hilarious videos.

I still haven't even finished my solar install so I'm not watching videos at home yet.. if it was on youtube I could catch it at work... I'd say my time here at my desk is the calmest part of my week... haha

[Akasha]

.....You gotta watch his one on becoming gluten intolerant... his has a few hilarious videos....

I was subbed to his channel for a bit and some of his vid's are gold for sure. I'll check out the gluten one.

Good luck with the solar install.

Edit:

Oht9AEq1798

[TargeT]

Good luck with the solar install.


I've got a good 3 hours of raw video from the install so far, should be able to get a good video up showing the basics (it's not that difficult, paying for a solar install is a pretty big waste if you have any inclination to DIY) I'll post them on PA some wheres when I'm finished :)



Ironically, being that authentic in taste would probably turn my stomach given that it's been such a long time since I ate meat.

I wonder if the length of time would have much to do with it or if it would taste terrible because you have a strong psychosomatic response built up. .

To me it seems like the psychosomatic response would be the key factor, I've done a pretty good job of training myself via mantra's & habitual behaviors to avoid sugar, and even more recently to reduce calorie intake. I started with sugar, just associating the word with poison; eventually I just did not want to eat sweat things & have tried to hang onto that since.

[Akasha]

.....
Ironically, being that authentic in taste would probably turn my stomach given that it's been such a long time since I ate meat.

I wonder if the length of time would have much to do with it or if it would taste terrible because you have a strong psychosomatic response built up. .

To me it seems like the psychosomatic response would be the key factor, I've done a pretty good job of training myself via mantra's & habitual behaviors to avoid sugar, and even more recently to reduce calorie intake. I started with sugar, just associating the word with poison; eventually I just did not want to eat sweat things & have tried to hang onto that since.

I think it would taste terrible due to the realisation of the terror intrinsic to such flavours. It's not as if I've consciously programmed myself to dislike it like you've done with sugar etc. Rather I just became aware of the cruelty. You can't really put that back in the box.
Eating sentient beings, once you've deprogrammed yourself from the typical parental dietary guidance is pretty f****n alien to be honest. On the other hand, eating fruit, vegetables, nuts and legumes just seems to come naturally.

Thinking out loud - I wonder if there is a link between the high number of vegetarians in India and the fact that over the millennia they have collectively become all too familiar with the smell of human flesh roasting on the funeral pyre unlike us more "civilized" types with our crematoriums.

[TargeT]

.....
Ironically, being that authentic in taste would probably turn my stomach given that it's been such a long time since I ate meat.

I wonder if the length of time would have much to do with it or if it would taste terrible because you have a strong psychosomatic response built up. .

To me it seems like the psychosomatic response would be the key factor, I've done a pretty good job of training myself via mantra's & habitual behaviors to avoid sugar, and even more recently to reduce calorie intake. I started with sugar, just associating the word with poison; eventually I just did not want to eat sweat things & have tried to hang onto that since.

I think it would taste terrible due to the realisation of the terror intrinsic to such flavours.

I don't think lab grown meat has any intrinsic terror, though I haven't seen the full proccess... there could be some very scary test tubes... some of the style choices of scientists are pretty terrifying :shrug:




It's not as if I've consciously programmed myself to dislike it like you've done with sugar etc. Rather I just became aware of the cruelty. You can't really put that back in the box.

Oh I don't know, I'd say I've done the exact same thing, refined sugar is a poison (though realistically, anything at the proper dose is toxic). I guess I just became aware of the cruelty sugar is doing to humanity (decades of diabetes, heart issues, obesity and all the others is a pretty good challenge for slaughter house cruelty, even feed lots + slaughter houses are shorter term).


Eating sentient beings, once you've deprogrammed yourself from the typical parental dietary guidance is pretty f****n alien to be honest. On the other hand, eating fruit, vegetables, nuts and legumes just seems to come naturally.

I thought we were talking about lab meat? You draw your line at sentient, but lab meat probably isn't.



Thinking out loud - I wonder if there is a link between the high number of vegetarians in India and the fact that over the millennia they have collectively become all too familiar with the smell of human flesh roasting on the funeral pyre unlike us more "civilized" types with our crematoriums.

Ever smelt a burnt human? I have, it's a disturbingly delicious smell to an omnivore, like roast pork... that never made me want to eat meat though (only been around burn victims that were 3rd+ degree twice, so maybe the more you're exposed it changes?)

[Akasha]

I should have inserted the word "historically" into the sentence about the terror in meat.
Obviously lab meat represents a fantastic leap away from terror. My bad for not being clearer.

Regarding roast human, you illustrate my point with your observation of its similarity to pork. I'm just suggesting that after a decade or so without meat it may not have such a "disturbingly delicious" aroma as it does for you now.

I went past the kolbász (Hungarian pork sausage) stall at the market today and it turned my stomach. Perhaps when you've been meat-free for a decade or so, it'll turn yours too.

[Akasha]

Catching up on the Jonestown - Is / isn't He? thread and came cross this nugget:


.....Be selfish, but do so in a way that is detrimental to nothing.

That is divine, IMO & the highest calling I've found so far.....

Would veganism not be aligned with that calling?

Why save horses (which I greatly admire by the way), play with dogs (which I'm also partial to) but eat cows, pigs, chickens etc.... or is there some micro-print after "nothing" which says "except cows, pigs, chickens etc...."?

[Akasha]

…..so…..pubmed.org (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/), National Library of Medicine, it's the biggest medical library in the world, so they have the largest database of medical science in the world….you go there and you do this - you put in "chicken" space "obesity" and hit enter and you tell me what you find…..

Dr. Michael Greger of nutritionfacts.org (http://nutritionfacts.org/) shares his comments on some of the "nutritional advice" given by some well known Youtubers (this is pretty funny - at least it would be if it these 'tubers didn't have such large numbers of subscribers):

uqzXLIlwgTI

[Akasha]

Vegan MMA fighter, Nate Diaz (http://vegan-kitchen.co.uk/nate-nick-diaz-vegan-ufc-fighters/) just took out Conor McGregor in the second round.



.....The MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada played host to one of the craziest ever nights of UFC action when both Conor McGregor and Holly Holm were defeated in an incredible night of upset victories at UFC 196.....full article here (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/mma/conor-mcgregor-nate-diaz-ufc-196-lost-submission-knockout-featherweight-champion-loses-holly-holm-a6915131.html)

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/03/06/08/conor-mcgregor-AP536987861536.jpg

One more nail in the "vegans are weak" coffin.

[Agape]

I should have inserted the word "historically" into the sentence about the terror in meat.
Obviously lab meat represents a fantastic leap away from terror. My bad for not being clearer.

Regarding roast human, you illustrate my point with your observation of its similarity to pork. I'm just suggesting that after a decade or so without meat it may not have such a "disturbingly delicious" aroma as it does for you now.

I went past the kolbász (Hungarian pork sausage) stall at the market today and it turned my stomach. Perhaps when you've been meat-free for a decade or so, it'll turn yours too.



So depressive . They feed on each other . They're meat who eat meat . I've read that somewhere recently .. :heart:


WHY call artificial meat a meat . It's a soya or crickets or worse .. do i care how it tastes . I'd better go on hunger strike :bigsmile: :alien:

[TargeT]

Catching up on the Jonestown - Is / isn't He? thread and came cross this nugget:


.....Be selfish, but do so in a way that is detrimental to nothing.

That is divine, IMO & the highest calling I've found so far.....

Would veganism not be aligned with that calling?

Why save horses (which I greatly admire by the way), play with dogs (which I'm also partial to) but eat cows, pigs, chickens etc...

The Ying must be balanced by the Yang ;)

I accept my dark side, I understand that the majority of all human desires and goals are entropic in nature, but nature shows us the necessity of duality.

For me to exist, somethings will be impacted; there is no way around it.


or is there some micro-print after "nothing" which says "except cows, pigs, chickens etc...."?

Well it certainly doesn't stop at plants or planets either ;)

Balance is key of course, don't let the dark get out of hand, but it has a place & is necessary; with out entropy the house we live in wouldn't exist (that is an entropic expression on the environment, of course the environment always wins in the end)

[Akasha]

Catching up on the Jonestown - Is / isn't He? thread and came cross this nugget:


.....Be selfish, but do so in a way that is detrimental to nothing.

That is divine, IMO & the highest calling I've found so far.....

Would veganism not be aligned with that calling?

Why save horses (which I greatly admire by the way), play with dogs (which I'm also partial to) but eat cows, pigs, chickens etc...

The Ying must be balanced by the Yang ;)

I accept my dark side, I understand that the majority of all human desires and goals are entropic in nature, but nature shows us the necessity of duality.

For me to exist, somethings will be impacted; there is no way around it.


or is there some micro-print after "nothing" which says "except cows, pigs, chickens etc...."?

Well it certainly doesn't stop at plants or planets either ;)

Balance is key of course, don't let the dark get out of hand, but it has a place & is necessary; with out entropy the house we live in wouldn't exist (that is an entropic expression on the environment, of course the environment always wins in the end)

I guess it all depends on where you draw the line between yin and yang as you put it. For me that line is sentience. The destruction I'm inevitably responsible for whilst here on this planet will at least then be limited in that regard.

(You didn't just play the plants tho' card again did you? ;))

[TargeT]

I guess it all depends on where you draw the line between yin and yang as you put it. For me that line is sentience. The destruction I'm inevitably responsible for whilst here on this planet will at least then be limited in that regard.

(You didn't just play the plants tho' card again did you? ;))

your choice on which multi-celled organisms are more important and mine differ.

Plants are about the most peaceful thing there is, they generally don't even eat other plants & vegetarianism chooses to eat them solely based on some emotion (mostly compassion, or guilt it seems). To me this is logically backwards, a thing that eats other things to live, choosing the least traumatically impactful life out there & only eating it because... compassion?

Nope, sounds like more human hypocrisy to me, at first glance; then the pious attitudes and elitist behaviors held by some sealed the deal..... veganism is just like any other human run "ism" hypocritical and manipulative with little logic present. There's some good backwards rationalization going on in the vegan circles, some of it is interesting; but the core belief for most followers is based on the above contradictory eating philosophy.


So yeah, for me (in regards to vegan-ism) "plants" are a highly curious central subject to what I see as the main flaw to the idealism.

[Akasha]

.....PS Sheep are not only eaten Akasha, they also produce wool, and need to be rounded up to be shorn.

lovin' the "produce" euphemism. I can picture them all now...... "producing" away at the local wool manufacturing plant.

[TargeT]

"producing" away at the local wool manufacturing plant.

Real vegans don't wear wool right?

http://29wa8r1atuhavaklx3zonor1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/peta-sheep-pens-patagonia_h.jpg

you guys only wear what you eat right? (plant stuffs?)

[Akasha]

"producing" away at the local wool manufacturing plant.

Real vegans don't wear wool right?

http://29wa8r1atuhavaklx3zonor1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/peta-sheep-pens-patagonia_h.jpg

you guys only wear what you eat right? (plant stuffs?)

Not only plant-based clothing such as hemp and cotton. Man-made textiles and materials too.

The above image certainly epitomizes everything that's wrong with the speciesist mindset. Thanks for sharing.

[Akasha]

Brilliant cows:

-jd2qhZuFXw

[Akasha]

Is lab meat vegan? Emily from the highly informative vegan Youtube channel, Bite Sized Vegan (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCluiFIVPK1uGkB8TFUVgX5w) addresses the question and the answers are not as clear cut as you'd think (short answer with current technology = no).

kt7x5JRjPc8

[Enola]

One thing, I ran out of fruit over Easter. I normally like to eat at least 50% fruit.

So things went pretty far downhill over the weekend. My brain cells would run out of energy all the time so I had to keep taking rests. The whole body stiffened up pretty bad, there was a real difference when doing yoga exercises. I also needed more sleep to feel rested.

Kind of suprised it would have that much of an effect. And especially by the dramatic improvement after finding one orange. There is also the life-force aspect, I guess, when you're accustomed to eating living food.

[TargeT]

One thing, I ran out of fruit over Easter. I normally like to eat at least 50% fruit.

So things went pretty far downhill over the weekend. My brain cells would run out of energy all the time so I had to keep taking rests. The whole body stiffened up pretty bad, there was a real difference when doing yoga exercises. I also needed more sleep to feel rested.

Kind of suprised it would have that much of an effect. And especially by the dramatic improvement after finding one orange. There is also the life-force aspect, I guess, when you're accustomed to eating living food.

That's because your metabolism is so used to having access to easy sugars it doesn't really burn fats anymore for energy (fats are what we are designed to burn for energy.. that's why we have fat!) its very hard to get fats eating just plants.
You can reset your metabolism by eating less sugary fruits and more fatty nuts or what ever your diet restrictions allow for good fats (avocados are great for MUFA's (Mono-Unsaturated-Fatty-Acids) which are highly desierable for every type of eater)



So this wasn't too surprising to me, since I am pretty sure humans are designed to eat meat:



Long term vegetarianism can lead to genetic mutations which raise the risk of heart disease and cancer, scientists have found.

Populations who have had a primarily vegetarian diet for generations were found to be far more likely to carry DNA which makes them susceptible to inflammation.

Scientists in the US believe that the mutation occured to make it easier for vegetarians to absorb essential fatty acids from plants.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03311/boysveg_3311659n.jpg
But it has the knock-on effect of boosting the production of arachidonic acid, which is known to increase inflammatory disease and cancer. When coupled with a diet high in vegetable oils - such as sunflower oil - the mutated gene quickly turns fatty acids into dangerous arachidonic acid.
The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters, a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

Researchers from Cornell University in the US compared hundreds of genomes from a primarily vegetarian population in Pune, India to traditional meat-eating people in Kansas and found there was a significant genetic difference.

“Those whose ancestry derives from vegetarians are more likely to carry genetics that more rapidly metabolise plant fatty acids,” said Tom Brenna, Professor of Human Nutrition at Cornell.
“In such individuals, vegetable oils will be converted to the more pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid, increasing the risk for chronic inflammation that is implicated in the development of heart disease, and exacerbates cancer.

“The mutation appeared in the human genome long ago, and has been passed down through the human family.”




o make the problem worse, the mutation also hinders the production of beneficial Omega 3 fatty acid which is protective against heart disease. Although it may not have mattered when the mutation first developed, since the industrial revolution there has been a major shift in diets away from Omega 3 – found in fish and nuts - to less healthy Omega 6 fats - found in vegetable oils.

"Changes in the dietary Omega 6 to Omega 3 balance may contribute to the increase in chronic disease seen in some developing countries,” added Dr Brenna.
http://3s9h7h3y0i6u2n9j4h5vgkf1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cancer.jpg
“The message for vegetarians is simple. Use vegetable oils that are low in omega-6 linoleic acid such as olive oil.”

The mutation is called rs66698963 and is found in the FADS2 gene which controls the production of fatty acids in the body.

Previous studies have shown that vegetarianism and veganism can lead to problems with fertility by lowering sperm counts.

Separate research from Harvard University also found that a diet high in fruit and vegetables may impact fertility because men are consuming high quantities of pesticides.

Many vegetarians also struggle to get enough protein, iron, vitamin D, vitamin B12 and calcium which are essential for health. One study found that vegetarians had approximately five percent lower bone-mineral density (BMD) than non-vegetarians.

However other research suggests vegetarianism lowers the risk of diabetes, stroke and obesity.

The new research was published in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12206669/Long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-DNA-raising-risk-of-cancer-and-heart-disease.html

[cecilmeyer]

Eating meat is the #1 taboo on ProjectAvalon and I wonder why.
Are we insidiously being manipulated in being Vegan? Why is being Vegan so closely linked to spirituality?

In human terms, we seem te be on top of the food chain. We are also highly dependant on it. On the short term, a vegan diet kan clense the body very much.
For a longer time, we will see a lot of infirtility problems. Being vegan simply is NOT sufficiënt for a human body.

The people of earth knew this. THERE IS NOT 1 KNOWN PRIMITIVE FOLK WHO LIVED VEGAN. NOT EVEN VEGETARIAN!! They all lived highly on animal fats and organ meats.
These people where highly developed spiritualy, mentally, fysically and emotionally. They where one with nature and the animal life and where capable of keeping themselves healthy for thousands of years.

For reference: Check Weston Price for his pictures of these people and his findings. The photo's he made of these people are highly illustrative.

Hi Joey.

The hostility I have repeatedly experienced as a vegan on Avalon suggests it is veganism which is taboo. Not the other way round. People rarely lose friends advocating a continuation of the status quo.

Personally speaking, my heart told me to go vegan, rather than some insidious, hidden power structure, although with many high profile celeb's making the change I totally understand why you might ask that question.

Regarding Weston Price, maybe check his wiki page (here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price)).


Price made a whirlwind tour of primitive areas, examined the natives superficially, and jumped to simplistic conclusions. While extolling their health, he ignored their short life expectancy and high rates of infant mortality, endemic diseases, and malnutrition.

Maybe cite sources for the claims you made so I can check them out.

Cheers.I became a vegetarian because my conscience kept gnawing at me.I just could not enjoy a meal knowing some innocent being suffered so I could have food that satisfied my taste and not my nutritional needs.I agree 100% with what you said about its vegans and vegetarians that are bullied and scorned.When I mention at work that I do not eat meat the first response I almost always get is "What do you eat?" And my response is "Is meat all you eat?" I think the powers that be love for humans to prey upon their fellow species.It makes us callous and cold to the sufferings of other beings including other humans.

[Enola]

I became a vegertarian when I started thinking for myself as a teenager and it just didn't feel right. I didn't have any second thoughts, it was just what was right for me. My sisters also quit as I did and it has worked very well for us.

It's strange how much people can make out of giving up meat. Although I don't see myself becoming a vegan anytime soon and eat dairy to get some fat and protein. I just notice I feel so much better when I have a lot of fruit.

[Akasha]

One thing, I ran out of fruit over Easter. I normally like to eat at least 50% fruit.

So things went pretty far downhill over the weekend. My brain cells would run out of energy all the time so I had to keep taking rests. The whole body stiffened up pretty bad, there was a real difference when doing yoga exercises. I also needed more sleep to feel rested.

Kind of suprised it would have that much of an effect. And especially by the dramatic improvement after finding one orange. There is also the life-force aspect, I guess, when you're accustomed to eating living food.

That's because your metabolism is so used to having access to easy sugars it doesn't really burn fats anymore for energy (fats are what we are designed to burn for energy.. that's why we have fat!) its very hard to get fats eating just plants.
You can reset your metabolism by eating less sugary fruits and more fatty nuts or what ever your diet restrictions allow for good fats (avocados are great for MUFA's (Mono-Unsaturated-Fatty-Acids) which are highly desierable for every type of eater)



So this wasn't too surprising to me, since I am pretty sure humans are designed to eat meat:



Long term vegetarianism can lead to genetic mutations which raise the risk of heart disease and cancer, scientists have found.

Populations who have had a primarily vegetarian diet for generations were found to be far more likely to carry DNA which makes them susceptible to inflammation.

Scientists in the US believe that the mutation occured to make it easier for vegetarians to absorb essential fatty acids from plants.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03311/boysveg_3311659n.jpg
But it has the knock-on effect of boosting the production of arachidonic acid, which is known to increase inflammatory disease and cancer. When coupled with a diet high in vegetable oils - such as sunflower oil - the mutated gene quickly turns fatty acids into dangerous arachidonic acid.
The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters, a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

Researchers from Cornell University in the US compared hundreds of genomes from a primarily vegetarian population in Pune, India to traditional meat-eating people in Kansas and found there was a significant genetic difference.

“Those whose ancestry derives from vegetarians are more likely to carry genetics that more rapidly metabolise plant fatty acids,” said Tom Brenna, Professor of Human Nutrition at Cornell.
“In such individuals, vegetable oils will be converted to the more pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid, increasing the risk for chronic inflammation that is implicated in the development of heart disease, and exacerbates cancer.

“The mutation appeared in the human genome long ago, and has been passed down through the human family.”




o make the problem worse, the mutation also hinders the production of beneficial Omega 3 fatty acid which is protective against heart disease. Although it may not have mattered when the mutation first developed, since the industrial revolution there has been a major shift in diets away from Omega 3 – found in fish and nuts - to less healthy Omega 6 fats - found in vegetable oils.

"Changes in the dietary Omega 6 to Omega 3 balance may contribute to the increase in chronic disease seen in some developing countries,” added Dr Brenna.
http://3s9h7h3y0i6u2n9j4h5vgkf1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cancer.jpg
“The message for vegetarians is simple. Use vegetable oils that are low in omega-6 linoleic acid such as olive oil.”

The mutation is called rs66698963 and is found in the FADS2 gene which controls the production of fatty acids in the body.

Previous studies have shown that vegetarianism and veganism can lead to problems with fertility by lowering sperm counts.

Separate research from Harvard University also found that a diet high in fruit and vegetables may impact fertility because men are consuming high quantities of pesticides.

Many vegetarians also struggle to get enough protein, iron, vitamin D, vitamin B12 and calcium which are essential for health. One study found that vegetarians had approximately five percent lower bone-mineral density (BMD) than non-vegetarians.

However other research suggests vegetarianism lowers the risk of diabetes, stroke and obesity.

The new research was published in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12206669/Long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-DNA-raising-risk-of-cancer-and-heart-disease.html

Our primary energy stores are fat-based but that doesn't mean we are designed to run on fat. That's just the most efficient way to store energy which isn't being used right now, so to quote and you with some rather crucial added context, "that's what we are designed to burn for energy" when there is no food to eat and we are in starvation mode.

Our common primate ancestry makes it pretty clear that we evolved on a diet primarily of fruit.

Regarding cancer and India, India doesn't even make the top 50 of countries with highest rates of cancer unlike good ol' USA which is currently number 6 according to World Cancer Research Fund International.

http://www.wcrf.org/int/cancer-facts-figures/data-cancer-frequency-country

It's strangely ironic how the countries with the highest rates of all the diseases associated with consumption of animal products (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, stroke, obesity) are busy trying to deflect the reality of the situation with their self-fulfilling prophecies…ahem…research.

[Akasha]

.....It's strangely ironic how the countries with the highest rates of all the diseases associated with consumption of animal products (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, stroke, obesity) are busy trying to deflect the reality of the situation with their self-fulfilling prophecies…ahem…research.....

Here's a classic example of what I mentioned above, impressively researched by the very diligent and very Welsh Veganism Unspun (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZGSr8b2WWr2hfEn8nGFC2Q):

cahCrXeKugg

tccNcppa44Q

[Akasha]

One thing, I ran out of fruit over Easter. I normally like to eat at least 50% fruit.

So things went pretty far downhill over the weekend. My brain cells would run out of energy all the time so I had to keep taking rests. The whole body stiffened up pretty bad, there was a real difference when doing yoga exercises. I also needed more sleep to feel rested.

Kind of suprised it would have that much of an effect. And especially by the dramatic improvement after finding one orange. There is also the life-force aspect, I guess, when you're accustomed to eating living food.

That's because your metabolism is so used to having access to easy sugars it doesn't really burn fats anymore for energy (fats are what we are designed to burn for energy.. that's why we have fat!) its very hard to get fats eating just plants.
You can reset your metabolism by eating less sugary fruits and more fatty nuts or what ever your diet restrictions allow for good fats (avocados are great for MUFA's (Mono-Unsaturated-Fatty-Acids) which are highly desierable for every type of eater)



So this wasn't too surprising to me, since I am pretty sure humans are designed to eat meat:



Long term vegetarianism can lead to genetic mutations which raise the risk of heart disease and cancer, scientists have found.

Populations who have had a primarily vegetarian diet for generations were found to be far more likely to carry DNA which makes them susceptible to inflammation.

Scientists in the US believe that the mutation occured to make it easier for vegetarians to absorb essential fatty acids from plants.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03311/boysveg_3311659n.jpg
But it has the knock-on effect of boosting the production of arachidonic acid, which is known to increase inflammatory disease and cancer. When coupled with a diet high in vegetable oils - such as sunflower oil - the mutated gene quickly turns fatty acids into dangerous arachidonic acid.
The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters, a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

Researchers from Cornell University in the US compared hundreds of genomes from a primarily vegetarian population in Pune, India to traditional meat-eating people in Kansas and found there was a significant genetic difference.

“Those whose ancestry derives from vegetarians are more likely to carry genetics that more rapidly metabolise plant fatty acids,” said Tom Brenna, Professor of Human Nutrition at Cornell.
“In such individuals, vegetable oils will be converted to the more pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid, increasing the risk for chronic inflammation that is implicated in the development of heart disease, and exacerbates cancer.

“The mutation appeared in the human genome long ago, and has been passed down through the human family.”




o make the problem worse, the mutation also hinders the production of beneficial Omega 3 fatty acid which is protective against heart disease. Although it may not have mattered when the mutation first developed, since the industrial revolution there has been a major shift in diets away from Omega 3 – found in fish and nuts - to less healthy Omega 6 fats - found in vegetable oils.

"Changes in the dietary Omega 6 to Omega 3 balance may contribute to the increase in chronic disease seen in some developing countries,” added Dr Brenna.
http://3s9h7h3y0i6u2n9j4h5vgkf1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cancer.jpg
“The message for vegetarians is simple. Use vegetable oils that are low in omega-6 linoleic acid such as olive oil.”

The mutation is called rs66698963 and is found in the FADS2 gene which controls the production of fatty acids in the body.

Previous studies have shown that vegetarianism and veganism can lead to problems with fertility by lowering sperm counts.

Separate research from Harvard University also found that a diet high in fruit and vegetables may impact fertility because men are consuming high quantities of pesticides.

Many vegetarians also struggle to get enough protein, iron, vitamin D, vitamin B12 and calcium which are essential for health. One study found that vegetarians had approximately five percent lower bone-mineral density (BMD) than non-vegetarians.

However other research suggests vegetarianism lowers the risk of diabetes, stroke and obesity.

The new research was published in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12206669/Long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-DNA-raising-risk-of-cancer-and-heart-disease.html

Organicadventureshow has a go at rebutting the above report you shared, TargeT. I think he does a pretty good job considering the the wide array of medical acronyms at play but if you want the two word answer, flax oil.


dVsCaaBm8QI

[RunningDeer]

A serendipitous find by way of new Avalon member, SunFruitDan (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?29672-sunfruitdan), from his YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOqfbDaPl-e5puj3MN1krPA/videos). It’s a snippet of Tulani and Dakar's healthy lifestyle from Kevin Cosmo’s HighEnergyParenting Channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/HighEnergyParenting/videos).


What Raw Vegan Kids Eat In A Day - Fruitarian
dsecvo3gYSk


Published on Apr 16, 2016

High energy parenting Youtube channel run by Kevin Cosmo shows what his lovely two kids eat in a day as raw vegans since birth. Check out his channel here (https://www.youtube.com/user/HighEnergyParenting/videos?spfreload=10).

Tulani and Dakarai have been two happy and healthy raw vegans since their respective births. Kevin Cosmos first child was born while his partner was on a standard western diet and their 2nd child was born of a vegan pregnancy. The oldest was breastfed until ~40 months of age, and very occasionally still nurses. The youngest, ~30 months old, still regularly nurses throughout day and night.

Get free health tips and more to achieve the health and life you desire by signing up here:

Email Subscription (http://sunfruitdan.com/email-subscription/)
My Website: http://www.sunfruitdan.com
My Instagram: https://instagram.com/sunfruitdan

[TargeT]

I wonder if you find the same situation in meats.... probably.......


Prescription meds get trapped in disturbing pee-to-food-to-pee loop
New irrigation methods mean veggies and fruits serve up used pharmaceuticals.
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/6922458949_23846ea1c1_z-640x421.jpg
If you love something, set it free… so the old adage goes. Well, if the things you love are pharmaceuticals, then you're in luck. Through vegetables and fruits, the drugs that we flush down the drain are returning to us—though we’ll ultimately pee them out again. (Love is complicated, after all)

In a randomized, single-blind pilot study, researchers found that anticonvulsive epilepsy drug carbamazepine, which is released in urine, can accumulate in crops irrigated with recycled water—treated sewage—and end up in the urine of produce-eaters not on the drugs. The study, published Tuesday in Environmental Science & Technology, is the first to validate the long-held suspicion that pharmaceuticals may get trapped in infinite pee-to-food-to-pee loops, exposing consumers to drug doses with unknown health effects.

While the amounts of the drug in produce-eater’s pee were four orders of magnitude lower than what is seen in the pee of patients purposefully taking the drugs, researchers speculate that the trace amounts could still have health effects in some people, such as those with a genetic sensitivity to the drugs, pregnant women, children, and those who eat a lot of produce, such as vegetarians. And with the growing practice of reclaiming wastewater for crop irrigation—particularly in places that face water shortages such as California, Israel, and Spain—the produce contamination could become more common and more potent, the authors argue.

“The potential for unwitting exposure of consumers to contaminants via this route is real,” the authors wrote, adding that their study provides real world data that proves exposure occurs.

For the study, researchers recruited 34 healthy adults—excluding vegetarians, vegans, and people who take carbamazepine. The participants were all from Israel, where farmers use reclaimed water for 50 percent of the country’s irrigation needs. California, which grows a large portion of US produce, currently uses reclaimed water for six percent of its irrigation needs, but is looking to increase its usage.

First, the researchers measured what was in each participant’s pee, then randomly assigned them to one of two groups. While each participant got a big basket of produce to eat over one week and another basket for a second week, the contents varied depending on their group. Those in group one unknowingly started off with produce irrigated with reclaimed water and then got a batch irrigated with fresh water for the second week. Group two started with produce irrigated with fresh water, then were switched to crops bought at a local grocery store. (The authors admit that they meant to switch the second group to produce grown with reclaimed water for that second week, but they ran out.) The researchers weren’t sure what type of water was used to grow the grocery store produce, but they assumed it was a mix.

Throughout the two weeks, researchers sampled each participant's urine, looking for carbamazepine and its metabolites—forms of the drug that have been modified in the human body.

At the start, the participants had mixed levels of carbamazepine in their urine, with ~38 percent having undetectable amounts, ~35 percent having detectable amounts that were too little to quantify, and ~26 having low but quantifiable amounts. After the first week, all of the participants in the first group, which noshed on produce irrigated with reclaimed water, had quantifiable amounts of the drug and its metabolites in their urine—some of the amounts hiked up by more than ten-fold from the start. Those in group two, however, didn’t change from their initial measurements.

In the second week, after the veggie swap, the levels of carbamazepine dropped back down to baseline levels in group one participants. Drug levels in participants in group two stayed about the same in the second week, despite some of the grocery store produce testing positive for carbamazepine.

Both of those findings—that drug levels can quickly drop after exposure and the mixed supermarket food didn’t alter levels—is relatively good news for public health, the authors note. Still, the unintentional drug doses in food are a concern worth more attention by the public health community, the authors conclude. Previous studies have found a variety of drugs in crops, including cholesterol medications, caffeine, and triclosan.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/04/drugs-we-pee-out-are-returning-to-us-in-our-salad-bowls-to-get-re-peed/

[DeDukshyn]

Blasted "Big Agra" ... best to grow your own food folks.

[Akasha]

Is the reversal of cellular aging Dr. Dean Ornish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Ornish) demonstrated with lifestyle changes due to the plant-based diet, the exercise or just to the associated weight loss?

Dr. Michael Greger (http://nutritionfacts.org/) analyses the peer-reviewed studies which explored these questions.

rVyQlbi5sWI

[Agape]

What I figured out during my life long :~) research is .. the need to minimise and qualify the intake of essential nutritients ,
reduce over consumption of anything . My mum who had hard to treat digestion problems in times when IBS was not considered even legitimate disease here

she would say wish we could eat few capsules a day and i said in future we will ..

The trick may be in eating just that little bit of what fits with you perfectly instead just compulsively eating plates and plates of food that is not filling anymore.

It's said that at times of our ancestors eating bowl of rice could sustain you for a week . Todays nature is exhausted by generations of replicating the genome of cereals,
now that we have sequenced its genome ..

it needs to be treated cautiously.


Essentials is good for you :raining:

[Akasha]

Many vegans still suffer from heart attacks. why is this? In a word, oil!

Mic. the Vegan (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJq0eQZoFSwgcqgxIE9MHw) explores the various studies highlighting how and why plant-based oils such as olive and coconut oil essentially still raise LDL levels as high as butter.

Low fat, plant-based, whole food diet FTW!

LbtwwZP4Yfs

[Akasha]

So some if not most will have just heard about Harambe the gorilla (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36410841) who was shot to death because of perceived threats to the safety of a child who had managed to get into his enclosure.

One of my favourite YouTubers / animal rights advocates, AV 57 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwLobypiKwsgpCDR7HQKycg), tackles the subject and pulls no punches so be warned: strong language throughout and…..oh yeah……f*ck zoos! We might have all been taken to one as kids, but if we're honest with ourselves, we all know what we saw there.

NfTY9XQFypw

[Sean]

Serious question: Does a raw/vegan diet boost psychic abilities?

[Enola]

I believe it does in an indirect way. By increasing life-force and decreasing negative energy, making you more perceptive. When you purify on all levels you become more and more sensitive to energies, for sure.

[GloriousPoetry]

All vegan is not for everyone. ..... I understand if your body truly rejects meat or any animal products then being vegan perhaps is the right energetic signature path for you but to solely become vegan due to a created moral code is questionable to me. .I don't believe it's humanity as a whole's next step into higher spiritual development. ...to believe this is like believing in a program like religion which has hijacked morality and keeps people locked into a bubble of all love and light like the new age movement which to me is also another religion and keeps people dociled and pacified.
Everything on this planet consumes something to survive and to some degree it's nature's way of keeping a balanced ecosystem. It's not pretty .........mice are killed to grow grains and so on and so on.....does it make it right.......yes for survival..........is it ugly?.....indeed it is.
I eat clean meat and organic dairy products because my body energetically thrives on proteins from animals and does not do well on grains. I'm aware of the over production of meat in our world and the harsh realities of animals harvested for food which is not pleasant and I'm also aware of the over production of genetically modified grains.......both are not designed for a balanced ecosystem.
My point here is this........why attach a moral code to our individual energetic signature on this physical existence in relation to food consumption for survival?

Food consumption for survival and attaching a moral code to it is my point here. .I'm not advocating hunting as a sport or other frivolous activities humans take part in with relation to animals since some vegans and vegetarians are quick to lump everything together.

[Akasha]

All vegan is not for everyone. ..... I understand if your body truly rejects meat or any animal products then being vegan perhaps is the right energetic signature path for you but to solely become vegan due to a created moral code is questionable to me. .I don't believe it's humanity as a whole's next step into higher spiritual development. ...to believe this is like believing in a program like religion which has hijacked morality and keeps people locked into a bubble of all love and light like the new age movement which to me is also another religion and keeps people dociled and pacified.
Everything on this planet consumes something to survive and to some degree it's nature's way of keeping a balanced ecosystem. It's not pretty .........mice are killed to grow grains and so on and so on.....does it make it right.......yes for survival..........is it ugly?.....indeed it is.
I eat clean meat and organic dairy products because my body energetically thrives on proteins from animals and does not do well on grains. I'm aware of the over production of meat in our world and the harsh realities of animals harvested for food which is not pleasant and I'm also aware of the over production of genetically modified grains.......both are not designed for a balanced ecosystem.
My point here is this........why attach a moral code to our individual energetic signature on this physical existence in relation to food consumption for survival?

Food consumption for survival and attaching a moral code to it is my point here. .I'm not advocating hunting as a sport or other frivolous activities humans take part in with relation to animals since some vegans and vegetarians are quick to lump everything together.

Hi GloriousPoetry and thanks for your contribution. I certainly agree with you that the new age movement is a religion to control the masses just as Bailey, Blavatsky et al no doubt designed it to be, however veganism is not about what you do, it’s about what you don’t do.

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

That’s the definition as coined by one of the Vegan Society’s early members, Leslie J. Cross.

It’s not a “belief system”, nor a route to “higher spiritual development” in and of itself although many would attest to it being just that over time.
Basically, as I see it, there is no moral code attached except the golden rule, namely, do to others as you would have them do to you, or if you prefer the negative which may be more poignant given the topic, don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to you.
If we are here individually and collectively to learn one thing, IMO, it’s that, as well as exploring the possibilities of where such a simple philosophy could take us if we could manage to apply it sustainably to all aspects of our existence.

As a free thinking human being with the appropriate “individual energetic signal”, you are at liberty to extend that rule to non-human animals or not. The choice is yours. Personally, my heart made it all to clear to me what that choice should be.

Regarding survival, I accept that there are those in more rural areas who would struggle without animals and their flesh and secretions, however, I’d venture to say that if you have an internet connection, you could enjoy a vegan lifestyle without too much inconvenience although there are, no doubt, some exceptions. If you are really one of those exceptions, so be it.

Regarding animal protein or grain, if I were you I’d be looking into legumes for the bulk of your protein such as beans, peas, chickpeas, lentils, soy (tempeh, tofu) etc…just remember to soak them appropriately and then drain and rinse thoroughly before cooking or sprouting. Getting away from wheat and into wholegrain rice, oats, millet, quinoa, amaranth, buckwheat etc…. can often lead to solutions to digestive problems too……..and of course more fruits and veggies with as many different colours as possible! The average American doesn’t come close to getting their recommended daily allowances of those food groups, leading to all manner of health problems.

[Akasha]

Some folk here will be familiar with the term, pinkwashing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT)), which is a portmanteau compound word of the words pink and whitewashing. In the context of LGBT rights, it is used to describe a variety of marketing and political strategies aimed at promoting a product or an entity through an appeal to queer-friendliness, primarily by political or social activists.

The term has been used to describe one of Israel’s many PR tactics and has led to the establishment of LGBT organisations such as Pinkwatching Israel (http://www.pinkwatchingisrael.com) to highlight and oppose the strategy.

Now, there has also been recent talk of Israel having the highest vegan population of any country per capita, not to mention the IDF adopting a vegan friendly menu (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.633837) and non-leather shoes and wool-free berets for its vegan members.

Any establishment making these changes is a good thing and to be applauded, however when Israel started using progressive themes such as LGBT and animal rights to obscure blatant and horrific human rights abuses, many vegans on both sides of the (security) fence decided to voice their opinion.

The following interview is with Laura, a Jewish vegan, Palestinian solidarity activist, theatre artist and educator. The interview is highly informative and covers the following points:


0:00 How did Laura first become involved in the Palestinian solidarity movement (despite being of Jewish heritage and being raised in a pro-Israeli household)?

4:55 What is the history of the Israeli occupation? Why is it even called an occupation or an apartheid?

19:12 People say that "Arabs living in Israel are living such better lives than if they were living in other Arab countries," because it's the "only democracy in the Middle East." Is that true?

21:56 Brief mention of the problems with the Two State Solution

22:25 What is the diference between anti-Semiitism and anti-Zionism?

25:13 On Israel being the “Vegan Mecca of the World”: Veganwashing and Pinkwashing

28:30 Gary Yourofsky

31:23 There are Israeli vegan movements that stand is in solidarity with Palestine. Support them!

34:00 How can we stand in solidarity with Palestine? What is BDS? What are news sites to learn about the occupation?

35:55 Join "Disrupt Zionism,” a Facebook group specifically for vegans to learn about the occupation

41:00 Why you should know about the Palestinian Animal League

LAhcgrtlKwQ

[Agape]

Many vegans still suffer from heart attacks. why is this? In a word, oil!

Mic. the Vegan (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJq0eQZoFSwgcqgxIE9MHw) explores the various studies highlighting how and why plant-based oils such as olive and coconut oil essentially still raise LDL levels as high as butter.

Low fat, plant-based, whole food diet FTW!



It's very true probably . I've been eating only too healthy for years ( and years ) so no matter how well or unwell I'm lab results are always 'in norm' but noticed slightly elevated HDL cholesterol each time .
Interestingly also .. even if ate very little protein as such ..it never showed any change in blood tests .

But traditionally , since childhood I can't digest fats , including much of the healthy 'olive oil' or even use it externally .
So eating an equivalent of a spoon of oil a day or some butter with bread will still cause the 'bad cholesterol' markers go up .

The healthiest option I 'intuited' through would be walnut oil , almond oil or apricot kernel oil .

Being 'fruitarian' would be probably just fine but I'd have to eat apples everyday :ROFL:

[Enola]

I eat 50% fruit. I like red fruits, like cherries, strawberries, and red grapes the most. And bananas. Apart from that, I mostly just eat some bread and dairy.

I don't cook, or seem to have lost all interest in it. I used to like cooking vegetarian food, but I want more raw food these days. What I should be eating is more nuts/seeds and vegetables.

[Akasha]

Two more vegan UFC fighters won in the last week:

1wE0lOwVbhs

-P_PsPnurMw

VEGAN FTW

[Agape]

Two more vegan UFC fighters won in the last week:



Distributing punches and making someone bleed is not very 'vegan' with me at all, if you can guess what I mean ,
it kind of ..defies the purpose .
I know no one here will like me for saying this but I could never watch these 'extreme sports' and especially when they punch each other .
But it's a strange thing .. there are medical doctors who do sports and things 'like that' so also there are vegans .

Reminds me of the photos of famous Muhammad Ali passing away few days ago all over the papers and I can't help myself from feeling incredibly sorry for him and those like him,
being dragged to the 'circle' sometimes full of blood , seeing half eye , bruised all over ..
the papers say MA spent last 30 years of his life battling Parkinsons .

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-parkinsons/85399772/

I wish we had the power to stop the animal slaughter and manslaughter and bloody fights , for money, going on..

[Akasha]

Two more vegan UFC fighters won in the last week:



Distributing punches and making someone bleed is not very 'vegan' with me at all, if you can guess what I mean ,
it kind of ..defies the purpose .
I know no one here will like me for saying this but I could never watch these 'extreme sports' and especially when they punch each other .
But it's a strange thing .. there are medical doctors who do sports and things 'like that' so also there are vegans .

Reminds me of the photos of famous Muhammad Ali passing away few days ago all over the papers and I can't help myself from feeling incredibly sorry for him and those like him,
being dragged to the 'circle' sometimes full of blood , seeing half eye , bruised all over ..
the papers say MA spent last 30 years of his life battling Parkinsons .

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-parkinsons/85399772/

I wish we had the power to stop the animal slaughter and manslaughter and bloody fights , for money, going on..

I totally understand where you are coming from, Agape but think about the impact on the millions if not billions of people who do (religiously) watch UFC, a large proportion of whom will most likely be chowing down on flesh burgers and deep-fried bird's limbs as the above fighters drop the V-bomb.

Destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype is going to be an important factor in making the sorts of changes we want to see, particularly for young males.

[Agape]

I totally understand where you are coming from, Agape but think about the impact on the millions if not billions of people who do (religiously) watch UFC, a large proportion of whom will most likely be chowing down on flesh burgers and deep-fried bird's limbs as the above fighters drop the V-bomb.

Destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype is going to be an important factor in making the sorts of changes we want to see, particularly for young males.

As I think I do Akasha. But can't resist the gig of what destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype would really mean to some people
and whether it's philosophically, the right way to go ( not for me . ).

I think these are possibly some recurring evolutionary options that follow either of the principles of

1. perfecting ethics and developing the mind ... ( the 'vegan extremist' )

2. kalokagathia (http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/humans_web_04/beauty/beauty.pdf)... harmony of body and mind , preservation of the human race

3. survival of the fittest ...( the body builder , corporeal culture )

They seem to coexist together . I've not heard of the case often when 'vegan extremists' would try to wipe out 'body builders' out of history but it's often happened the other way around , and usually ..due to negligence ..


:bigsmile:

[Akasha]

I totally understand where you are coming from, Agape but think about the impact on the millions if not billions of people who do (religiously) watch UFC, a large proportion of whom will most likely be chowing down on flesh burgers and deep-fried bird's limbs as the above fighters drop the V-bomb.

Destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype is going to be an important factor in making the sorts of changes we want to see, particularly for young males.

As I think I do Akasha. But can't resist the gig of what destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype would really mean to some people
and whether it's philosophically, the right way to go ( not for me . ).

I think these are possibly some recurring evolutionary options that follow either of the principles of

1. perfecting ethics and developing the mind ... ( the 'vegan extremist' )

2. kalokagathia (http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/humans_web_04/beauty/beauty.pdf)... harmony of body and mind , preservation of the human race

3. survival of the fittest ...( the body builder , corporeal culture )

They seem to coexist together . I've not heard of the case often when 'vegan extremists' would try to wipe out 'body builders' out of history but it's often happened the other way around , and usually ..due to negligence ..


:bigsmile:

TBH, i rushed that last post a bit. Perhaps I should have replaced "destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype" with "dispelling the myth of vegans not being physically competitive". Does that have a better ring to it?

[Agape]

TBH, i rushed that last post a bit. Perhaps I should have replaced "destroying the weak and vulnerable vegan stereotype" with "dispelling the myth of vegans not being physically competitive". Does that have a better ring to it?

I think I'd say 'competent' rather than 'competitive' unless you meant the same thing .

But please you are of great help here and I am not going to pretend for a moment I'm picking up on words here,
if there's something I can't wrap my mind around it would be how -or why- seemingly intelligent , vegetable fed people go punching each other to face .

There's no excuse for me to that 'sport' .

I like the eastern sorts of martial arts much better , Aikido for example and all the rest and as long as they use it for self-defence and do not break the true warriors code .

From what's known to me .. some of the oldest Shaolin masters were also , mostly vegetarians . Those famous founders of martial arts like Tai-Chi learned the art by living in seclusion in mountains and forests and observing animal movements and learning from them .
Those 'old masters' were tiny people , they did not feel the need for huge display of muscles and body art . The real art was in the technique .

Younger generations almost always fall from some of the principles , gradually , generation after generation and that's how the knowledge degrades and impure elements get in.
Young people today think that martial arts are all about developing body and style and being good at shows .

eZwmluSn_T0


Shaolin 8 Treasures Soup : http://www.veganearthgirl.com/eight-treasures-congee.html


Now i'm getting hungry :flower:

[Akasha]

Interesting that you linked to the congee recipe. Whilst not exactly the same, we cooked a similar Indian dish by the name of Kitchari (https://www.ayurveda.com/online_resource/kitchari_recipe.html) yesterday comprising of red wholegrain basmati rice, mung bean dhal, yellow beans, tomatoes and spices (we replaced the ghee with coconut oil).

Staying on the subject of food, Impossible Foods (http://www.impossiblefoods.com) are almost ready to start initial release of their Impossible Burger to selected restaurants in LA, San Fransciso and New York. The story of its development is fascinating. Commercial release is set to be at the end of the year.

rZT00TgZQ40

[Agape]

Hello Akasha, kitcheri ( not sure with spelling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khichdi) but there are varieties of both spelling and kitcheri :)) is very tasty and simple to make too,
in India it's often prepared from leftover rice and dahl ( lentils , lentil soup ) and vegetable and eaten for the 'next meal' .
Kitcheri is the 'fish&chips' of India , the sandwich and the toast :ROFL:

Not only it tastes so good but is easy to digest.

The burger looks little suspicious to me . But so did the European 'soya salami' looked after 6 years away from this 'foodie culture'. I found strange eating something that actually tried to 'resemble meat product' .

I'd recommend falafel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falafel) instead . The ingredients , variety of recipes and tastes .. are all well balanced , middle-eastern , original, almost ancient .
The only disadvantage , it's another fried food so not good for everyday consumption.

[Akasha]

VEGANS ARE BULLIES!

xF5aytAcSmc

[Akasha]

If they tell you to eat more meat to be strong, don't buy it!!! - Arnold Schwarzenegger

xHSkahIFDF4

[Antagenet]

Is there or can we please have a thread with just vegetarian and vegan recipes, and not all the theory about it? Anyone interested?

[DeDukshyn]

Is there or can we please have a thread with just vegetarian and vegan recipes, and not all the theory about it? Anyone interested?

Even as an (current) omnivore ... I love the idea of a 100% dedicated vegetarian / vegan recipe thread - no comments - just recipes! (alright maybe review comments - but that is it!)





If they tell you to eat more meat to be strong, don't buy it!!! - Arnold Schwarzenegger

... <trim> ...

Loved it.

[Akasha]

Is there or can we please have a thread with just vegetarian and vegan recipes, and not all the theory about it? Anyone interested?

Great idea! Next time I share a recipe, I'll do so through a new, dedicated vegan recipes thread, unless anyone else beats me to it. Deal?

[Akasha]

…..and there is now a general consensus that animal agriculture is the leading cause of not just global warming but also water depletion, deforestation, species extinction, ocean dead zones and antibiotic resistance…..

The following short film details the progress of veganism in 2016 highlighting how its growing popularity is largely due to people waking up to the horrors of animal agriculture and its effects on the planet, not to mention increased health benefits and compassion for other beings.

G5ufn_Gy_Ns

[Akasha]

Baileys has introduced a vegan option (bottoms up!!!)

http://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/05/23/12/almond.jpg


Happy hour just got happier for vegans, as Baileys has announced it is the latest company to offer a dairy-free alternative.

If you like your cocktails creamy, the options have just gotten a whole lot easier for non-dairy drinkers, as the famous coffee-flavoured liqueur recipe has now been adapted to include almond milk as its base ingredient......full article here (http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/foodanddrink/vegan-dairyfree-baileys-is-now-a-thing-a3254721.html)

[DeDukshyn]

Baileys has introduced a vegan option (bottoms up!!!)

http://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/05/23/12/almond.jpg


Happy hour just got happier for vegans, as Baileys has announced it is the latest company to offer a dairy-free alternative.

If you like your cocktails creamy, the options have just gotten a whole lot easier for non-dairy drinkers, as the famous coffee-flavoured liqueur recipe has now been adapted to include almond milk as its base ingredient......full article here (http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/foodanddrink/vegan-dairyfree-baileys-is-now-a-thing-a3254721.html)

I like Bailey's but I always thought the cream was just a bit too much (too rich / fatty (besides the harvesting another animals mammary excretions - it is a bit weird)) - especially if just sipping straight, or lightly mixed with something else ... this version sounds waay better! I think I will try a bottle if I ever see it.

[lake]

These are not my words, they are in my opinion the words of a psychopath....but I do agree with them!
Now is that not strange that a being with no empathy could type something which I could be in accord with? Whilst beings which should feel this, through empathy, do not!!!!


Most in the west are familiar with the concept of YIN YANG...the interrelationship of seeming opposite forces. I encourage you to become familiar with this TRUTH and look for examples in your experiences. See if it rises to the level of a NATURAL LAW in your reality!

Let us start simply!

"Night" cannot exist without "Day".

"Truth" cannot exist without "Lies"

"Problems" cannot exist without "solutions"

One gives form, creation and life to another.

A straight line cannot exist in nature!

There is no timeline...there is no past and no future. Because there IS no PAST...there cannot be a FUTURE.

Leaving only NOW, or REALITY. Keep this in mind.

Moving on to the concept of food!

You, presumably are an ANIMAL...a mammal.

You were a product of the insemination of egg by sperm. You were a live birth (again presumably) and a nursing mammal! Slow to mature and capable of complex cognitive interactions with your environment. Perhaps 300 million possible iterations of YOU, with one prevailing!

Sentient...capable of feeling pain, of growing and evolving.

What, of the attributes noted, differ from the animals you choose to eat? Say a PIG or COW...slaughtered by the hundreds of millions per year...and slaughtered without observing the laws and rituals of nature!

Most importantly, slaughtered on YOUR BEHALF!

It is well understood that these animals suffer greatly in their lifelong confinement (look up VEAL PRODUCTION for a "taste" of the sacrifice of YOUTH), are injected with all sorts of unnatural poisons and pharma effluents, fed genetically modified "grains" in a filthy environment.

Fear permeates their environment...misery unto DEATH.

Their complete existence is a MISERY from birth to death.

SLAUGHTER.

Where does all that fear and misery accumulate? Where does it go? Would YOU want to live in this existence? Do you APPROVE of these miseries being inflicted by those who act as your AGENT? Do you realize that AGENTS actions are lawfully binding upon the principal? As you BUY meat, you buy and legitimize this "system" of misery.

These mechanisms allow modification of thought perception which lead to such things as the aborting of human babies! Self-inflicted genocide! Astounding!

What will the next big advancement of humanity be?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Laughing out loud!

In the US, mcdonalds serves up billions of these little misery bombs...brightly wrapped and served by a grotesque clown character.

Eat up, Kiddies!

Eating animals is eating one's own. It is not a FOOD SOURCE per se, but cannibalism.

Consider another source of food. Plants.

Along the YIN YANG meridian, plants are opposite/complementary in most respects. Life forms, sure, and many realize now sentient.

However, plants and humans are symbiotic! One respirates Co2 and the other o2. One cannot live without the other!

Plants take non organic elements from the earth and make them digestible for humans. In fact, the only true source of minerals for human consumption come from plants. Elemental sources cannot be metabolized and end up causing sickness and death in humans.

Laughing out loud!

Human faeces is PLANT FERTILIZER! That which is SHAT is life giving food to plants!

Humans and plants have evolved together. There is much WISDOM which plants can impart to humans. One need only EAT!

Laughing out loud!

Let's create a small food chain scenario easily accomplished by MOST first world inhabitants.

You have, or acquire, a small plot of land. The land is fertile or reasonably so...or, worst case, can be rehabilitated with a small amount of knowledge of earthworms .

You plant a variety of green plants and vegetables...the type that humans normally consume. The cost of seeds is very small and through some miracle of life, you discover that the plants which grow also produce seeds...which can be kept for future growings! Food for now and the means of production for later!

You learn that by selecting the type of plants grown, you can make an ideal combination specific to your blood type and nutritional constitution. After some study, you learn that food can, indeed, be your "medicine"...just like that old guy said a few thousand years ago!

Laughing out loud!

After a period of systemic adjustment, you realize that your health has improved and you are bursting with abundant energy. You are never ill! No colds, no flu...no flesh eating bacteria!

The idea that one would need health insurance (socialist or private) becomes an absurdity!

At some point, you realize that the digestive tract you inherited required constant grazing...such as elephants, horses and cows do...and learn of JUICING! Most of the nutritional value can be extracted and made portable along with other benefits. You adopt this regimen after carefully weighing the pros and negatives and find an increase of super-charged energy....along with a small mountain of grindings from the juicing process...from vegetables and plants grown by yourself, with your labor...in your own garden!

You elect to form a relationship with a CHICKEN. Or maybe TWO CHICKENS!

You find that the chickens greedily eat the fibrous grinding remains along with bugs and anything else they can find...and, in exchange, give you a small nutrient bomb of proteins, high quality fats, organic minerals and other good stuff. They, in essence, extract the rest of the nutrition from the vegetables and produce it in a highly assimilatable form...complete amino acid profile, proportioned correctly.

Seeing an opportunity, you add this marvel of human nutrition to your green juicing! Raw!

Because the egg is UNFERTILIZED, there are no karmic issues with its consumption! Because you are providing a safe and healthy environment to the chicken; supplying it with healthy vegetables grown from the sweat of YOUR BROW...your toil...it is a perfectly symbiotic relationship!

Quid pro quo!

Now, the chicken ages and stops laying.

What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO??

Why, you continue to care for the chicken...to feed it and respect it during its "life" as you did while it was producing eggs! RESPECT, YO!

YOU DO NOT EAT THE CHICKEN! It lives out its life according to its NATURE and GENETIC PROGRAMMING. You are living according to the NATURAL LAW OF BOTH!

Why? Because you are living in the NOW! There being no timeline, there is only NOW. The killing of the chicken affects the Eggs...ALL the eggs concurrently. Betray the chicken NOW and poison the eggs NOW.

And you don't want to eat poisoned eggs, do you?

It's really very simple, actually.

So now, by the sweat of your own brow (and admittedly, taking very little actual sweat) you are feeding yourself and have taken responsibility for your own health. You are full of energy and brimming with positive POWER!

You grow your own food, maintain your own health and have no need for the pharma or poisoned ag industry!

At the same time, your need for fiat has been reduced significantly, so the need to toil in some dreary cubicle has been reduced or eliminated! You spend your life in the sunshine, in nature, producing and consuming your own labor.

How can ANY entity tax the fruit of your labors? Sadly, the various bureaucracies are not set up to process CHICKENS!

Laughing out loud!

This is but one very simple action ANYONE can take which changes their lives completely and allows them to take a new path. This earth truly is a biblical GARDEN OF EDEN!

Profoundly simple, and now laid out clearly for all to see!

Who will now take this information and start a new life for themselves and their family? What I have told you is true and in conformance to NATURAL LAW. Best of all, YOU can PROVE OR DISPROVE this by your own experimentation, and engagement costs little if anything to begin!

Now consider...WHO is truly the villain in the misery which is your life?

Will YOU stand accountable for the sloth and mistakes YOU have made?

Will you look in the mirror to see who is to blame for your condition?

We shall see!

Laughing out loud!

[TargeT]

I like how he justifies eating eggs because they aren't fertilized.. haha!


and this line...


you realize that your health has improved and you are bursting with abundant energy. You are never ill! No colds, no flu...no flesh eating bacteria!

Uhh,, maybe for a few people; not for very many however...

The fact is, this is the one diet where if your not vigilent, you can die (or kill someone in your care) (http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/04/10/parents-of-toddler-whose-vegan-diet-led-to-death-sentenced-to-30-months).

Or cause mental issues (http://www.womenshealthmag.com/food/side-effects-of-vegetarianism)

or increased prevalence of three chronic diseases: “allergies”, “cancer” and “mental illness” (http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/04April/Pages/Vegetarians-have-poorer-quality-of-life-study-claims.aspx)

For some people they can handle the strange diet.. most people cannot however, we need the bio available fats and proteins from animals, we are designed for them.

[Akasha]

Hey T, Long time no C :)


.....


you realize that your health has improved and you are bursting with abundant energy. You are never ill! No colds, no flu...no flesh eating bacteria!

Uhh,, maybe for a few people; not for very many however...

The fact is, this is the one diet where if your not vigilent, you can die (or kill someone in your care) (http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/04/10/parents-of-toddler-whose-vegan-diet-led-to-death-sentenced-to-30-months).

Or cause mental issues (http://www.womenshealthmag.com/food/side-effects-of-vegetarianism)

or increased prevalence of three chronic diseases: “allergies”, “cancer” and “mental illness” (http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/04April/Pages/Vegetarians-have-poorer-quality-of-life-study-claims.aspx)

For some people they can handle the strange diet.. most people cannot however, we need the bio available fats and proteins from animals, we are designed for them.

You could be a fruitarian with all that cherry-picking:ROFL:

[Akasha]

Thanks a lot for sharing, Lake, and with the exception of the chicken-period bit, I agree too!!


These are not my words, they are in my opinion the words of a psychopath....but I do agree with them!......

I must say I'm intrigued by the "psychopath" bit. Who wrote it?

[Akasha]

Legendary plant-based doctor, John McDougall focuses on the numerous negative effects of the Standard American Diet on children, covering everything from constipation and acne to premature puberty and lack of physical ability as well as calling it what it is - child abuse.

AXsLX2CDbZo

[AwakenedWarrior]

Hello everyone! I don't believe in judging anyone or forcing my opinions on them. I'd just like to offer my perspective and knowledge, so if anyone has any questions about "Veganism" (which is just the label of the lifestyle I live, not the reality of it), feel free to ask. Or if anyone else here is vegan and wants to talk about it in anyway, I'd be down for that too. Peace!

[Dianamar]

Hello , id like to ask a few questions.

First: what difference has being vegan had on your health and well being ?

Second: Do you have any nice recipes to share ?

[Akasha]

Hello , id like to ask a few questions.

First: what difference has being vegan had on your health and well being ?

Second: Do you have any nice recipes to share ?

Before I went vegan, a hard bony lump developed on one of my toe knuckles. After being vegan for a couple of months, the lump completely disappeared. Read into that what you will.
I’ve also managed to lose several unwanted kilos since going vegan.

Regarding well being, I’ve felt a tremendous weight of guilt lifted in knowing that I’m not contributing to the unnecessary suffering and exploitation of sentient beings. Straight-forward stuff really considering our collective labeling of ourselves as animal lovers.

Regarding recipes, there are several posts in this thread (maybe start at the beginning :) ) offering up delicious cruelty-free cuisine. Beyond that, I would highly recommend a couple of YouTube channels, namely The Vegan Corner (https://www.youtube.com/user/thevegancorner) and The Vegan Zombie (https://www.youtube.com/user/ZombieGate) (don’t be put off by the name, their recipes are delicious).

Another very simple tip is to Google a recipe for a dish you already enjoy and simply add "vegan" to the search. This method is normally very successful although you may have to vet the results and use your judgement to decide which will be the best recipe.

Recipes aside, the chances are that if you've got access to an internet connection, you've most likely got access to some plant-based alternatives to animal products. Try them out and decide which ones do it for you. Some are already disturbingly convincing and with brands like Tofurkey, Linda McCartney, Gardein, Daiya, Beyond Meat and Impossible foods leading the way it's never been easier to transition to a more compassionate diet.

[Dianamar]

http://www.merelymarie.com/2014/07/cauliflower-steak-diane/

i finally found one i'm going to try tonight !

thank you Mark :flower:

[AwakenedWarrior]

I feel more alive than I ever have going vegan. I feel like I have that much more control over my life as well. I don't contribute to the suffering of millions of innocent lives anymore, and sleep a lot better knowing that. The way I also see it is, if there is an optimal lifestyle/diet for us, wouldn't that be the default way for us to live?

[Akasha]

the ideal (on the sign) and the reality (in the actions):

sdSYZckDAq0

[Akasha]

40 year MD veteran, Dr. Michael Klaper delivers a fantastic, provocative and personal presentation at VegFest 2016.

He shares his transformative journey toward veganism, driven by the question “Are you really that hungry?”

He also highlights how many of “truths” he was conditioned to believe in med’ school turned out to demonstrably false. “Truths” essentially saying that atherosclerosis, hypertension and diabetes (to name a few) were incurable, at best able to be treated with surgery and / or a life time supply of appropriate drugs.

He goes on to illustrate how all these health issues (as well as many others) can be reversed with a whole foods, plant-based diet.

Anyone suffering with any of the health problems mentioned above as well as auto-immune problems, angina, rheumatoid arthritis, migraines, kidney failure, obesity, lung disease and / or errhem, erectile disfunction (as well as a few other ailments I've missed out) needs to watch this:

G2g7iIag4zE

Dr Klaper's website here (http://doctorklaper.com/)

[Akasha]

Amazing footage of Sea Shepherd activists freeing a large whale from a net off the coast of Gabon in west Africa:

cnm-T0GiuSY

[Akasha]

Bone Broth - no, just no...........(and here's why)

HiIx6FBxHvk

[Akasha]

Emily's latest presentation, delivered to an Irish audience and targeting the misconceptions of animal agriculture in Ireland:



The Best We Have To Offer? | Inside Ireland’s “Humane” Farming

Most people are against factory farming—but what about grass-fed, free-range, humane agriculture? Nowhere is animal agriculture more idealized and visually stunning than the rolling green landscape of Ireland. Undercover videos of animal abuse are exceedingly scarce and Ireland’s farmers pride themselves on higher standards and better regulations. So let’s take a close look at these higher standards—the very best we have to offer—and see if our assurances of “humane treatment” stand. Is it REALLY ‘not like that here?’

YBy5BqCv4us

[Akasha]

Since the W.H.O released its report on meat and cancer (http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/world-health-organization-says-processed-meat-causes-cancer) last year many naysayers have been clutching at straws with claims of its results not applying to "white" meat or "grass-fed" meat. If you currently fall within that demographic and care about your health, maybe watch the following 3 minute video:

yE6Mh4rVyFg

[Akasha]

Investors urge food companies to shift from meat to plants

By Simon Jessop | LONDON

A group of 40 investors managing $1.25 trillion in assets have launched a campaign to encourage 16 global food companies to change the way they source protein for their products to help to reduce environmental and health risks.

The investors, which include the fund arm of insurer Aviva and several Swedish state pension funds, wrote to the food companies on Sept. 23 urging them to respond to the "material" risks of industrial farming and to diversify into plant-based sources of protein.

Among the companies targeted were Kraft Heinz, Nestle, Unilever, Tesco and Walmart, a statement by the Farm Animal Investment Risk & Return Initiative, which organized the investor group, said on Monday.

"The world's over reliance on factory farmed livestock to feed the growing global demand for protein is a recipe for a financial, social and environmental crisis," said Jeremy Coller, founder of the FAIRR initiative and chief investment officer at private equity company Coller Capital.

Pollution from intensive livestock production is already at too high a level, while safety and welfare standards are too low and the industry cannot cope with the projected increase in global protein demand, Coller said.

"Investors want to know if major food companies have a strategy to avoid this protein bubble and to profit from a plant-based protein market set to grow by 8.4 percent annually over the next five years," Coller said.

The campaign follows an Oxford University study which said $1.5 trillion in healthcare and climate change-related costs could be saved by 2050 if people reduced their reliance on meat in their diet.......full article here (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-investors-food-idUSKCN11W0KH)

.....times they are a changin'.....

[Akasha]

Following on from the huge and continuing success of Cowspiracy (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82470-Cowspiracy-the-sustainability-secret--2014-), Netflix has just added another vegan documentary to its list.

Live and Let Live (http://www.letlivefilm.com/en/) provides a comprehensive perspective on veganism covering all aspects of the movement from its inception to ethics to health to the environment and beyond. It avoids any graphic imagery, instead focusing on personal testimony from a wide array of individuals who have made the transition ranging from activists to nutritionists, psychologists to environmentalists to name a few.

I’ve just finished watching it and thoroughly enjoyed it, not surprising given its 7.8 IMDb rating (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3408558/).

Here (https://www.netflix.com/hu/watch/80113787)’s the Netflix link or if you don’t have access to Netflix, click here (https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/12268559/Live_and_Let_Live_(2013)_720p_x264) and well….you know what to do (if that link is blocked in your country, try going here (https://proxybay.one/) and using one of the proxies).

[Akasha]

Mercola recently interviewed ex-vegetarian Mara Kahn who has spent the last 6 years writing a book about how bad veganism is.

The following review comment on the book’s Amazon page sums up the whole picture perfectly:


Vegan fear mongering is a great strategy to sell books. The non vegan majority is salivating over books like this, which become the pretext for decrying, "See now I know why I'm not vegan!" The ultimate betrayal is still our betrayal of infant and adolescent age animals who we inflict suffering upon because we claim that the recycled nutrients we get from their flesh and secretions is somehow more digestable than from the plant foods. Without the necessity fiction, our moral premise for causing their suffering collapses. This book is a case in point (from here (https://www.amazon.com/Vegan-Betrayal-hunger-plants-only-world/dp/0990341321))


In the following video, Mic. the Vegan responds to many of their claims:

r8ob4JCETaI

[lunaflare]

We have been mind-controlled for so long that many accept the erroneous notion that meat is good for you and necessary for one's survival. It is not.
We have come to accept that the cruelty of "growing" animals in cages is normal.
We steal babies from their mothers and create vortexes of grief, sorrow and fear.

Factory Farming, and the business of live export/import, is shameful.
From this perspective, humans are not an evolved species.

Veganism, for today's human, is revolutionary.
It is the ancient art and practice of a conscious life.