Tellinger v Credo

[JPM45]

I am guessing that the paths that have led every member here, were as twisting and scenic as mine. Fifteen years ago, my partner was (is) the librarian/guardian at the PRS library in Los Feliz and though initially enthralled by Manly P Hall, I found myself drawn more and more to the work of Madame Blavatsky. Three years later and I emerge, blinking in the sunlight and find myself ghosted into Black Isis, an Austrian Masonic lodge. Ten years later, the idea that man co-existed alongside dinosaurs re-established itself when I discovered the Cuneiform texts of Sumer. I have always thought I could handle a fifth language, a dead one preferably....and then bumped in to Michael Tellinger. I put myself forward as an Ubuntu candidate, and though a " world without money" needs more thought, it is best I Marshall my ideas the best I can. Yesterday I spotted briefly a thread, where Bill and David Icke met Credo Mlawi, and though happily the dialogue was settled at 50/50 I wondered at a couple of things. Credo questioned how a white man could understand the history of South Africa....to my mind, indeed through experience of the oft-warped history of England...cultural, tribal and heraldic reports suffer from over embellishment and fade quickly to fable. An outsider might be more objective. Now, undoubtedly, to be in the presence of this man must be quite something....but....the doughnut stone that Tellinger crashed the TSA system with, points happily towards the high magnetic readings he gleaned from the stone circles of Adam's Calendar...and when asked how you would get in and out of these closed circles, Credo said, by elephant...then noted how African elephants could be trained....and weaned.....on human milk. Did I hear that right? Slurp, gone, slurp gone...etc....the only people I don't trust are those who say " trust me" ....and I'm having a hard time right now, believing a man called "I believe." I apologise for meandering...I'll go skim the excess froth off my head....any thoughts?

[craig mitchell]

Now, undoubtedly, to be in the presence of this man must be quite something....but....the doughnut stone that Tellinger crashed the TSA system with, points happily towards the high magnetic readings he gleaned from the stone circles of Adam's Calendar...and when asked how you would get in and out of these closed circles, Credo said, by elephant...then noted how African elephants could be trained....and weaned.....on human milk. Did I hear that right? Slurp, gone, slurp gone...etc....the only people I don't trust are those who say " trust me" ....and I'm having a hard time right now, believing a man called "I believe."

Yea boy, when I heard the elephant explanation my brain crinkled a bit, but then the human milk part kicked in and the brain did a quick computation about quantity needed per elephant per day, the amount of milk per milking (breast pump anyone?), the number lactating women required,.......and the ol cranium blew a fuze! Still can't grok that amazing utterance.

Credo is probably an amazing guy but has gone through untold abuse, deprivation, torture, his sons' death, beaucoup whiteman lies and who knows what else. Story telling being as old as humanity, and whitey not to be trusted, perhaps things get twisted around consciously or unconsciously. Anyway, I wish Credo and Tellinger the best, we're all fighting our battles in the inner and outer worlds daily, so we're not always putting our best foot forward. Forgiveness needed like a thick healing poultice around us all.

Thanks for the post. You've no doubt expressed what lots of us have been unable to grasp. And JMP455, I've been 'round the barn so many times chasing this and that, I should leave the doors at each end open the better to see who's being chased this time, and use my intuition to save on the footwork!

[sdv]

Hi folks

Don't want to discredit anyone here, nor make anyone a hero ... if you want to see Credo Mutwa as some kind of personal guru then that is your choice and your path in life and probably what is best for you.

However, for some perspective, here is how most South Africans view Credo Mutwa (and most South Africans are black):
1. He is still remembered as an apartheid collaborator (his earlier work strongly supported apartheid as natural and divine law - which is not only morally repugnant but also scientific hogwash).
2. The title of 'High Sanusi' does not come from any Zulu tradition but is a self-proclaimed title. The official recognition of this self-proclaimed title came from the apartheid government and not the Zulu people.
3. After making predictions in the media every year and none of them coming true, he is now ignored by the media in South Africa.
4. For him to say that he is the one true holder of African history through folk tales is to insult all other Africans in South Africa. Are we supposed to believe that every other Zulu woman, man and child is telling fake stories and only Credo Mutwa knows the true stories? Please respect Africans and don't treat them like a bunch of stupid people who do not know their own history.

As an artist and a poet he is very creative and talented and has a very rich imagination; he is not the authentic voice for African traditional religion (folklore is about storytelling and so there is nothing wrong with his making up stories, but what is significant is that he is not regarded as an authentic voice for Africans nor even the Zulu people).

Claim him as your own personal guru but please do not claim him to be an authentic guru (whatever) of African people - he is not.

[JPM45]

Hmmm... I don't believe neither I, nor Mr Mitchell were flying a flag for Credo Mutwa in the slightest...and I appeal to any fair-minded reader of this thread, that our subtext was indeed the opposite. Many of my better hours have been in the company of such characters...a single malt, a roaring fire and a twinkly-eyed ship captain...a sweat lodge, heart songs, a chief and some drums...and I sit silent, suitably agog, my heart choking with want...for a story, a past, and a time I would never know, and cap in hand, I bow before their wisdom and feel every nuance of hurt and pride, catch every ray of light and every wistful look, though weakened and weary now, one that emanated somewhere, but still carries an ancient rumble...and is making it's way into my soul right now. Gurus are ten a penny..I care not a jot for them....I am wholeheartedly interested in the propagation of humankind, of building bridges between disparate peoples and helping to forge a worldview that demands fairness, displays forgiveness and hunts the truth in everything it sees. I demand it, my sons deserve it, and so do yours. Mr Credo has his story, good or bad (Mandela did too) but it's like putting a Boticelli next to a Banksy...Credo can have my ears and a place in my heart, but that bright spark Tellinger gets the rest. NB..you seemed to jump at just the sound of his name...sorry if I set you off...peace x

[Flash]

Thank you and thanks SDV and Craig Mitchell for your comments. I truly do not care if you see Credo Mutwa as a Zulu representative or not, a guru or not , although I personnally think he is neither , but I must say something here JPM 45: you are an outstandingly good writer. I would read you for hours (taking into account that English is not my mothertongue ). You must have publised already. Can you tell us about it?


Hmmm... I don't believe neither I, nor Mr Mitchell were flying a flag for Credo Mutwa in the slightest...and I appeal to any fair-minded reader of this thread, that our subtext was indeed the opposite. Many of my better hours have been in the company of such characters...a single malt, a roaring fire and a twinkly-eyed ship captain...a sweat lodge, heart songs, a chief and some drums...and I sit silent, suitably agog, my heart choking with want...for a story, a past, and a time I would never know, and cap in hand, I bow before their wisdom and feel every nuance of hurt and pride, catch every ray of light and every wistful look, though weakened and weary now, one that emanated somewhere, but still carries an ancient rumble...and is making it's way into my soul right now. Gurus are ten a penny..I care not a jot for them....I am wholeheartedly interested in the propagation of humankind, of building bridges between disparate peoples and helping to forge a worldview that demands fairness, displays forgiveness and hunts the truth in everything it sees. I demand it, my sons deserve it, and so do yours. Mr Credo has his story, good or bad (Mandela did too) but it's like putting a Boticelli next to a Banksy...Credo can have my ears and a place in my heart, but that bright spark Tellinger gets the rest. NB..you seemed to jump at just the sound of his name...sorry if I set you off...peace x

[JPM45]

Hey, Flash! (Always wanted to say that!) thank you for your kind comments, I do indeed write...heavily...I have just finished the screenplay for 1066 The Battle for England, a battle for land and title, but also a battle of languages, yours and mine, which I'm happy to say we lost. I do some comedy stuff for Nickleodeon too and I'm writing a dry, local comedy for Jellylegs, Craig Cash's production company....alas the mechanics of life have dictated that I must do something less whimsical to pay the bills...I have been a chef for the past twenty odd years, but five years doing this in Paris killed me...I suppose nature fits the back to the burden, but now I'm ensconced in the Cheshire countryside, lying on said back and now just cooking for family and friends and churning out words. Not really overjoyed with the weather in the UK though...I swear the next generation of Brits will be born with fog lamps and flippers. Not that interesting, but thanks for asking.