Teenager into self-cutting

[kirolak]

I'm hoping someone may have some advice on a very sensitive matter - I have recently discovered that my teenager daughter has taken to cutting herself when depressed, which is often. . .she is on Fluoxetine, prescribed by a psyhiatrist, as it is.:(

She is beautiful, talented, self-aware and creative - but cuts (lightly, no scars so far) into her skin to draw blood. She says everyone at school does it.

The school psychologist does not seem overly woried, and thinks it is a phase many girls go through; and apparently the private psychiatrist asks the same sort of questions and gives the same sort of advice that I do myself, so no great insights there. She does not allow me to be present at the sessions.

My daughter has just come to me now, carrying a bloodied white shirt, and saying she needs help - and I feel powerless to provide it. I've asked her what I can do to help, what would make her life "all right", quite apart from all the other approaches I have been advised to take, but nothing has worked for more than a few days.

Apparently the depression is genetic, from her father's side - he has OCD, depression and is close to being an alcoholic, which is why he does not live with us.

I'm at the end of my tether. . . . has anyone been through anything like his, and how did it resolve itself?

Namaste all!

[Heartsong]

I have no advice for you but you have my sympathy. It is a painful time when a child is in mental pain and all you can do is watch and love. If she allows it, love her as you would a small child. She's having trouble coping with her world and feeling protected may help. Get some counseling for yourself. Mom needs to be a secure, stable influence through all this. You'll both make it.

[ulli]

You have the wrong psychiatrist.
Sorry to be that blunt.
Anyway, I feel for you, and you have my sympathy.
But you get results you need to first question if she is getting the right kind of help.

[chanda]

MMS (sodium chlorite) has done miracles for many and for our family too. You can look into it.

[Matt P]

I agree with Ulli and was about to say the same thing. That drug is nasty and the listed side effects indicate what's happening happens to lots of people who take it and could just be "normal" side effects.

http://www.drugs.com/fluoxetine.html

Have you heard of Gwen Olsen? Pharmaceutical executive turned pharmaceutical educator. She wrote a book called Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher.

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Drug-Pusher-Gwen-Olsen/dp/1935278592

There are natural ways to treat depression, anxiety, etc.

Matt

[Noir]

Hi,
I sent you a PM.
I hadn't seen you are from spain!
Now I feel stupid, haha. I'm from south america so i think the next PM will be in Spanish :P

[Rich]

I used to cut when I was younger. It's a way of distracting from the emotional pain.
You ''have to'' let go beliefs of being unworthy.
Also ask her how she is getting along with her classmates and teachers or if she is being bullied etc....
Conventional medicine is often based on suppressing symptoms but the symptoms are an attempt of healing from the body.
Anti depressants cause a chemical imbalance in the body.

[Agape]

I'm hoping someone may have some advice on a very sensitive matter - I have recently discovered that my teenager daughter has taken to cutting herself when depressed, which is often. . .she is on Fluoxetine, prescribed by a psyhiatrist, as it is.:(

She is beautiful, talented, self-aware and creative - but cuts (lightly, no scars so far) into her skin to draw blood. She says everyone at school does it.

The school psychologist does not seem overly woried, and thinks it is a phase many girls go through; and apparently the private psychiatrist asks the same sort of questions and gives the same sort of advice that I do myself, so no great insights there. She does not allow me to be present at the sessions.

My daughter has just come to me now, carrying a bloodied white shirt, and saying she needs help - and I feel powerless to provide it. I've asked her what I can do to help, what would make her life "all right", quite apart from all the other approaches I have been advised to take, but nothing has worked for more than a few days.

Apparently the depression is genetic, from her father's side - he has OCD, depression and is close to being an alcoholic, which is why he does not live with us.

I'm at the end of my tether. . . . has anyone been through anything like his, and how did it resolve itself?

Namaste all!


My friends teenager did it . Kirolak - it's serious and it does not 'resolve itself' . Take your daughter to side for chat and explain to her that self-harming is no go,
under any circumstances and that even little cut can result in serious infection, internal injury , bleeding leading to life long disability and so forth .

If she says that 'other children do it' , it'd be worth to rise the issue with other parents and teachers ( one of them at least , whoever is sensitive and trustable ) and explain to the class how serious this is and what can be the consequences of such behaviour .

I don't believe ( personally ) that pharmacotherapy is good especially in children and young people whose brains are still evolving - and , they keep evolving to your 30s or 35s in certain areas .. and psychiatric drugs can make the whole problem much more complicated and worse ,

the solution really is in good psycho-therapy with most people and helping them to win over themselves and their depressions .

As I've said , friends of mine kid has been through this for many years and she's on disability now and never returned to the education system ( she was bullied by other teenagers which basically triggered the chain reaction for her ) so this can really turn to nasty, long term , debilitating disease .

I tend to feel depressed under circumstances .. and I'm on very easy edge to hurt myself anytime but generally, I don't do .
Explaining them about principles of non-violence and how compassion needs to be applied to ones own self so it's understood correctly will help in my opinion.

Compassion .. and education .. should go hand in hand .



:heart:

[Selkie]

This is very sad. My heart goes out to your daughter and you.

[grannyfranny100]

I agree with Ulli and Matt. "You have the wrong psychiatrist." You and your daughter need to have some joint sessions,too, so you can get better educated. I am sure the new psychiatrist can recommend reading material for both of you.

Your daughter's call for help is serious. Don't settle for home remedies and risk her life. She needs attention now. So what if she is put on antidepressants now. It might take some time to find the right one until she is healthy enough to tapper off them.

The fact that she will not allow you to attend sessions may also suggest that she has some issues with you. Maybe cutting herself is the only way she feels she can reach you. Be willing to seek help for yourself if the new psychiatrist thinks this would help.

It is time to seek help!

[Rhah]

I'm very sorry to hear that Kirolak... You have my deepest sympathy.

I have also been depressed and suicidal for all of my teenage years so I not only know how hard it can be for your daughter, but also the impact it can have on a parent.
I think the most important thing is to find out what is causing her depression. Because you simply can't fix a problem if you don't know what's causing it. Do you have any idea what the cause of her depression could be?

You say that she does not allow you to be present at her sessions so I'm not sure how your relationship is with your daughter, but do you think that you could talk about it with her? Could you ask her why she feels depressed?
If she's not willing to talk about it, however, do you think you could perhaps get in contact with her psychiatrist or psychologist instead to get a better understanding of her situation? They might not be willing to disclose that information due to doctor-patient confidentiality, but if you make clear that you want to help her but simply don't know what's bothering her they might be willing to tell you after all. (although, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if they're of much help to her, judging from their reactions about her situation. Saying that self-harming is just a phase that she has to go through really is a despicable thing to say imo.)

Ultimately I think it's vitally important that you do not judge her actions or get angry at her (not saying that you do). For the last thing that you want right now is to drive her away from you. That'll only make things worse.

For me, my depression was mainly caused by the fact that I couldn't understand and cope with the way the world works these days and how we are expected to live our lives, combined with the feeling that I wasn't loved and appreciated by my parents. I simply felt worthless, didn't know what the heck I was doing here on earth and would therefore rather die than have to go through this suffering any longer.
The first part was fortunately cured by my awakening. I haven't felt those feelings since, thank god. The second part I am currently still working on with the help of my psychologist and family therapy sessions.

During these therapy sessions I notice that talking things through and opening up about your feelings truly is of great help. Even though it can be incredibly difficult at times.
I have come to realise that because my relationship with my parents was pretty much non-existent for many years, as we would hardly talk to eachother, I started to assume how they felt and thought about me, without actually knowing for sure. And that's why simply talking about it can be so extremely helpful. Because I now realise that my assumptions were often times incorrect.

I would also advise against taking drugs, if I can be completely honest. I personally don't have any experience with the drugs your daughter is taking so I can't make any claims about it, but I was also prescribed anti-depressives during my depression and from my personal experience I can tell that they simply weren't of any help to me. I could feel absolutely miserable when I was on them, and feel really great when I happened to forget to take them. All they did was make me physically feel weird. On top of that it also scared me as I noticed that my body was getting dependant on the drugs rather quickly, as I would feel really sick if I didn't take them.
That's why I decided for myself to just stop taking them. I'm actually still supposed to be on the drugs but I honestly feel much better without them.
Though again, I obviously can't decide whether or not your daughter should continue taking her drugs. But perhaps it's something that she would be willing to try. You simply never know. Especially with the current state of the pharmaceutical industry.

I sincerely hope that this was of any help to you Kirolak... please don't give up on your daughter and keep giving her your love and appreciation. She can be helped.

Love,

Rhah

PS. As I am currently coming out of my own depression and learning how to deal with my thoughts and feelings, I am always willing to talk to you about your situation in private if you ever feel the need. Who knows, I might just be able to help someone else with my own experiences.

[betoobig]

Hello Kirolak, i like to say that your daugther asking for help is great. There you have your first step, embraise her and tell her she is not alone and you trust her unconditional; she needs you first, so walk this path toguether.Not saying it is easy. I agree about the psychiatrist. WHy don´t you try some hypnosis, perhaps a small tryp toguether out of the regular daily life or city.
I know you are both gonna overcome this issue and this will strength your relation.
In a physical level boosting the inmune system is allways helpfull (check on Turkey tail mushrooms)
Personally i will avoid any kind of drugs, we all have done some crazy stuff when teenagers.
COnfidence.
Sending you both much loving energies... now... breath it please.
I would also let her read what we are saying.
LOVE
Juan

[Guish]

I used to cut when I was younger. It's a way of distracting from the emotional pain.
You ''have to'' let go beliefs of being unworthy.


While I had my own battle with emotional pain, the battle stops when you stop fighting it.

I'd advise to look at the cause of the pain and work on it till you realise that the cause itself is just an illusion. Every human being is perfect. Social conditioning and fake standards make people feel inferior and that's so sad. Healing from trauma is a long journey but we all fall to learn how to get up.

[Violet]

I went through a similar phase at probably similar age. I was on nothing, just that some particular people, and situations, were making my life very hard on me. I needed help. No one did anything (useful), everyone just observed,...My mother thought I must be possessed, I won't even talk about what she considered solutions.
What struck me was the general reaction: taking distance from me...

If any help were offered back then, I would have probably rejected it. But now, I wish that back then someone would have had the guts to force help on me.

I resolved it by myself, I guess, hanging in there.

Find help, all you can get, don't stick to the school psychologist. My school failed me epically on this, the teachers were watching and they did nothing for me: shame on them! Shame, with a capital letter.

[Flash]

Yes, me and Mini Flash have been through this.

Does you daughter speak English or French? How old is she? She would probably listen to someone slightly older than her. I may ask Mini Flash if she wants to Skype with her. Mini has had this Skype help, so she may be willing to give back.

As for depression, 5HTP works wonders, is natural and is non addictive. Mini took 200 mg per day (this is a high dosage, but it works). It is a precursor to serotonine make up, in other words, it help the glands producing serotonine to do their work. It is not a re-uptake inhibitor as anti-depressant are. Therefore, non addictive. However, it has to be stopped slowly to get the body used to producing serotonine by itself again.

Also, her guts has to be taken care of. She will feel soooooo much better if her guts is sane and if she absorbs the right nutrients. Compulsive disorders and dépressions often comes from an intestinal flora that is going nuts. This is for your ex as well. 5HTP and vitamins are the only things I forced her to do, I begged her to do only this for me. I accepted that she misses days of school (but mine would still study by herself to do the exams).

Also, a male help would help, replacing somewhat the absent father, if you can find a gentle person who would not exploit the situation.

Genetic stuff is only a tendency, don't buy too much of it. If you take care of the body and have an environment that if favorable, the genetic unhelpfull expression will never show up.

Repeat to her over and over and over again how much you love her, over again, over again. She may go into fits that are irrecuperable, just stay beside her then, rock her if she let you. She will be angry at times, let her be. Just take it. Go down with her, but do not let this put you down (there is a difference in between). Just accompany her at times, at other times, tell her this hurting herself is forbidden by natural law. And if you can, get the screamo and heavy metal music out of the house (which I did not do).

Well, this is what I did, but to tell the truth I became desperate too, ended up getting help from someone, I would have taken any kind of help at this point. Ended up in a depression myself and finally we both got out of it.

I am reading others comments on this thread, they are excellent too,

And take care of yourself. Get help from family and friends for her, and take off, my advice, otherwise you will end up in depression too, which won't help.



I'm hoping someone may have some advice on a very sensitive matter - I have recently discovered that my teenager daughter has taken to cutting herself when depressed, which is often. . .she is on Fluoxetine, prescribed by a psyhiatrist, as it is.:(

She is beautiful, talented, self-aware and creative - but cuts (lightly, no scars so far) into her skin to draw blood. She says everyone at school does it.

The school psychologist does not seem overly woried, and thinks it is a phase many girls go through; and apparently the private psychiatrist asks the same sort of questions and gives the same sort of advice that I do myself, so no great insights there. She does not allow me to be present at the sessions.

My daughter has just come to me now, carrying a bloodied white shirt, and saying she needs help - and I feel powerless to provide it. I've asked her what I can do to help, what would make her life "all right", quite apart from all the other approaches I have been advised to take, but nothing has worked for more than a few days.

Apparently the depression is genetic, from her father's side - he has OCD, depression and is close to being an alcoholic, which is why he does not live with us.

I'm at the end of my tether. . . . has anyone been through anything like his, and how did it resolve itself?

Namaste all!

[TigaHawk]

As someone who's been there....

I started off after an argument with my mother. She has this thing where we'd have an argument.... she'd go away for 10-15min then she'd come back and continue it.... this would happen 4-5 times. I was in my room and she wanted to come in my room to continue the argument. She pushed her way half in and me... having had enough pushed back to get her out of my room. I slammed the door against her as hard as I could and I hurt her arm / shoulder. I felt so badly about the fact that I had hurt her, and so ****ty about the situation and life in general at the time (teenage years + school + other stuff = hell) that I was not coping with it all. So much emotional pain / hurt was inside of me and I had no way to vent it. I'm unsure how I came up with the idea but it made perfect sense at the time, and I actually believe it helped me. The act was transferring emotional pain into something physical. Something I could see heal and go away rather than something invisible that would feel like it would never go away. I concealed what I had done. My mother never found out until much later - the school psych did find out but was as useful as tit's on a bull for the most part people don't take them or their advice seriously but will play along to get time out of class as it can be a quiet retreat.

When you are a teenager your view of life is restricted. Your entire world is primarily your life at school and the rest is your home life, or the time spent with friends outside of both. It's impossible to think/comprehend/understand that those years are temporary and life gets a lot better once your done. I do not think it helps one bit that the entire education system is designed to restrict you, dumb you down and make you obedient to authority rather than enrich you with knowledge and let loose your creativity.


I think she needs an outlet for all the emotion's she is bottling up inside.



I'm 29 now and feel kinda stupid for what I did, but at the same time I still think it helped me (at the time) and I turned out OK so... When I look at the scars I feel a bit of shame for doing it but it's a reminder of what I was feeling at the time and has since turned into a reminder that what your feeling now is temporary and time can change everything.

[Guish]

Interesting. When I was a teenager, my way of dealing with anxiety was still physical. However, I used to go out and run many kilometres till I feel calm again. This helped me till the start of my adult life as well. Spending months looking for a job and going to so many interviews was depressing. I needed the exercise and there was also heavy metal music to vent out anger.

[grannyfranny100]

If one is not disciplined about taking antidepression meds, one plays whacko with moods and emotions. It takes time for them to build up and to take effect. Forgetting to take them for a day or two will not make one feel better instantly. If they are not helping after two to three weeks, one probably needs a different one.

I know it isn't fashionable to be in favor of antidepressants these days. But if one is close to suicide, the thought that you might get some relief in another week or two helps one to have courage to avoid suicide. That's clinical depression.

If it is just situational short term depression, it is basically a call for attention by one's inattentive parents. Most shrinks pass on such cases to MSW therapists for cognitive behavioral treatment. Such talk therapy can help with low doses of antidepressants. Between how unpleasant schools are these days, unavailable parents are, the uncivil bullying behavior of teens, even menstrual problems is a lot to handle. But the first thing is to get a good shrink that can decide the kind of therapy and medication one needs.

[TigaHawk]

I'd be weary of anti-depressants. Especially ones that have side effects such as suicidal thoughts.... Kind of negates the whole point of anti depressants.

[latina]

Hi Kirolak: I’m a single mother with two children but never had that problem they are now 26 and 23. I remember clearly when my son started to get depressed and to be a rebel in high school. I really did not know what to do but my sister advise me in spending a lot of time together and I did, for instance I would invite my son to take a cup of coffee with me while I was cooking dinner with the excuse of not wanting to be by myself in the kitchen and then we started talking about simple things, I allowed him to bring his CDs and listen to his music, basically metal and heavy rock (which I don’t like at all). Little by little I started to ask him to help me with dicing the onions, tomatoes, whatever I needed at the moment and he did (He is a great cook now). It wasn’t easy but we started talking more about each other, sometimes I offered him a small glass of sangria or lemonade, anything was a good excuse for talking. I asked him to help me around the house a lot and helping me in the yard with physical labor like raking the leaves in the fall, I always showed gratitude for his help and all the time I used to hug and kiss him on the cheek. We are very affectionate with each other as a family.

In short, I tried to get him busy doing physical things, minimize his time by himself in his room and I showed him affection all the time. We live in a time now where children do almost nothing besides going to school and they are alone in their rooms after school a great deal of time, spending hours playing games or in internet but not with the family. Adolescence is a time when hormones make feel them depressed, they feel they don’t fit anywhere, etc. They need a lot of affection too, they want to feel loved and appreciated, they need to know they have a place in this world and they are important to their families.

With my son, I was always asking questions but not like interrogating him and never showing judgment but trying to understand his point of view on everything. Yes, sometimes I disagreed with his opinions or the way he did things but always I said things like this: While I disagree with you on this I’m going to let you to take that decision and have the consequence for it and if you make mistakes I’m loving you just the same.
I know this advice sounds too simple but it’s not. Be with your daughter all the time, do things together from watching a movie on her bed or yours, share with her chores around the house as an activity not as an obligation, make it fun, play her music; even when they don’t like it they feel they belong to something, show physical affection, I did this with my daughter and always reassured her about her beauty, intelligence, personality etc. If you don’t do it they are going to look for love and appreciation in the wrong places. The more time they spend alone by themselves the bigger the problem. Look for excuses to be together doing anything from chores to funny things. Never judge just be present. Don't let her spend a lot of time alone. People get depressesed when they have too much free time and they are alone.

My reward by doing this is that now I have two very healthy, affectionate, responsible, honest, wonderful children who are my pride and joy. It has been many times that friends and coworkers ask me how I did it because they are really exceptional.

Remember Kirolak “Love is the answer, always”

[kirolak]

Haha, thank you - I was from Spain originally, but have not lived there for many years. . . can't really speak it properly any more! :blushing:

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I agree, Ulli - only there are not many to choose from here

[kirolak]

Thanks, grannyfranny! BTW it is the psychiatrist who wants one-on-one, not my daughter. . :(

[kirolak]

Thank you, Rhah, and everyone else for the insightful replies!

It seems her depression is genetic, it began at puberty about 5 years back. . .in addition, she has formed a long-distance relationship with a boy who turned out to be a trans-gender girl; she was very upset at first, then realized that it was the person she cared about, not the outward gender, so they talk on skype all day long and are emotionally there for one another. She often tells me that the world is not the place she would choose to be if she had the option.

I like the idea that someone expressed, of showing compassion to ones self as well as towards others, I will put that to her. She is not bullied at school; in fact she is very popular, but hates compliments or praise as she feels it places her under an obligation to be or do more than she can. Very complex soul. . . :(

You guys are great, did anyone ever tell you that? :clapping:

[Agape]

You know what Kirolak ? They have a new condition *label* available in psychiatry nowadays called ''psycho-spiritual crisis'' .

It's medically accepted *diagnosis* nowadays though some/many old fashioned doctors may not be familiar or say 'fond of' the diagnose ,
it seems to be popular and useful now with new generation of psychologists and mental healthcare centres ,
there's of course high prevalence of teenagers who suffer from 'spiritual crisis' but it concerns virtually people of ANY age ,
coming to terms with their own , sometimes abrupt , philosophical evolution.


Because of the gaining recognition of the overlap of spiritual/mystical experiences and mental health problems, in the early 1990s authors Lukoff, Lu, & Turner (Turner et al., 1995, p. 435) made a proposal for a new diagnostic category entitled "Religious or Spiritual Problems". The category was approved by the DSM-IV Task Force in 1993 (Turner et al., 1995, p. 436) and is included in the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) (American Psychiatric Association, 1994). The inclusion marks increasing professional acceptance of spiritual issues in the assessment of mental health problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_crisis



Symptoms ( accepted ) seem to be similar to what people frequently describe on this and other pages under ''ascension symptoms'' label or some of them ,
depression and fatigue are just one of them .

Young brains are developing fast at the same time , there are non-pathological organic changes happening in brain in adolescence that seem to be responsible for many such symptoms - brain is *expensive* in energy consumption and also , the whole neurotransmitter and hormone chain affecting the rest of body depends on it so whenever something is happening , even healthy process , in the brain we are 'doomed' .

But the tragedy of our society- as I see it - is that very few parents, teachers, doctors , priests etc. are helping these young people to pass the process successfully , without harm ,
remember 'rites of passage' in many old cultures ,

instead they're given medication and sent to 'their own corner' very often while this is happening for years , their brains and world views , emotions and intellect are undergoing the most critical changes at that time and what they may really need is freedom ..to experience themselves as they are .




:heart:

[conk]

I would suggest the book by Dr. David Perlmutter, Brain Maker. Your daughter may be in need of nutritional help. Dr. Perlmutter shows very well how gut microbes can heal the brain and alleviate depression and anxiety. I believe many on this forum would agree this subject of gut bacteria needs to be taken very seriously.

And please stop the drug. These drugs have serious long term consequences and even cause more of the symptoms they purport to end. Much love and many blessings!

[Sunny]

There are Bach Flower Remedies that can be useful for depression. Mustard is for depression that comes on for no apparent reason. Gorse is for a sense of hopelessness. The remedies are easy to buy and to use.

[Bubu]

we all have our ups and downs although Im not into suicidal tendency but whenever I am down I just went to the bushes whenever I can its very calming there. Sometimes I listen to music, go for a long bike ride or a swim. anything to distract and just wait out the storm to pass. little things works wonders.

best wishes to both of you

[grannyfranny100]

Latina, what a wonderful, wonderful post. I never had children but I did have a great influence on a young man while living with his dad. Our relationship was much as you described. I would never tell him what to do. I might suggest some options, ask questions he might not have asked himself or tell him a story of my life in a similar situation. He is now a successful business man that headhunters approach about job openings, married a delightful gal with a critical care nursing career and they will have their first child next month. Unfortunately his sister was impossible to help. What works with one child may not work on another.