View Full Version : Higher Vibration is Not Necessarily Always Better ~ New Age Mind Control Operations ~ Mapping Electromagnetics
I have been talking about this for a while on multiple forums. I never thought to write a blog article on it until I read theruiner sum it up absolutely flawlessly. I'm curious what type of reception this will get. When I have posted about it on Avalon I'm pretty sure my post was thankless and got no response. lol. Maybe with theruiner saying things about it it will have a better reception :)
Higher Vibration is Not Necessarily Always Better ~ New Age Mind Control Operations ~ Mapping Electromagnetics
After critically thinking about the vibration stuff for some months/years in the past, and being fully aware much of the new age is infiltrated psy op material, as well as seeing this summed up in a flawessly concise form by a friend, I decided this deserves attention. I have spoken about this before in new age circles and gotten no response and I imagine a bad reaction from some of the readers.
However some may be able to objectively weigh things even if it goes against their belief(i practice this at least).
Quoting a former illuminati, a friend of mine who goes by the name of theruiner777 on the net:
"The intended audience is already aware of this mind control program. Higher vibration is vibrating faster, it does not imply 'better'."
I could not agree more. I have had some very high frequency fears before which is what made me question the higher vibration stuff. So high frequency of technological fears it is vibrating much faster than natural love. I have also experienced some kind of lower frequency love feelings that were amazing just as the higher frequency love feelings can be amazing.
The New Age is largely a Psychological Operation IMO. According to my contacts it is based on a knowing that there would be a New Age Movement/Truth Movement upon the invention of the internet. All the shadow government had to do was ask dark ETs who overstand them. The Dark Extraterrestrials have witnessed the invention of the internet on infiltrated worlds, and know well how to manipulate such a thing.
The tactics used by the shadow government are beyond black ops agents intelligence I would say a good portion of the time(just my speculation after conversing with some black ops agents in the past).
The power one gains by mapping electronic telepathy methods such as microwave hearing and other electromagnetic directed energy communication methods is monumental in terms of knowledge of the mind.
As said in my mapping electromagnetics article, the entire universe and every thought form, concept, conscious energy, emotion, and more can be deciphered by electromagnetics via electronic telepathy.
I can explain this science well. Brainwaves are ultra low frequency electromagnetic waves, every possible brainwave can be reproduced with technology. Through mapping all the different brainwaves and other mental things which are within electromagnetic electronic telepathy methods one has access to all knowledge in existence.
All knowledge is encoded into brainwaves and electromagnetic forms.
The shadow government as well as extraterrestrials have mapped out all thought forms in existence, and apply their knowledge to psychological operations worldwide, every culture has psychological mind control operations on Earth, and no group is left out of consideration. I know this is something people who only like positive info may not like, but I think a reality check is a good thing...
In saying they know all thought forms in existence this doesn't necessarily mean they know everything for the human powers that be. There are countless illusory thought forms as there are countless one's that work scientifically in reality and so on.
I also know vibration can be 100% controlled by technology. Part of the mind control operation with vibration is that it makes one immune to external influence. This is absolutely untrue. A better emotional complex and practicing emotional and mental hygiene can be very beneficial, and makes one able to detect certain limited forms of mind control, and even makes the decisions for influence less in ways for the mind controllers. A person who has the qualities the new age attributes to a "higher vibration" can still be very manipulated.
Explore Reality. Scrutinize Even Conspiracy and Alternative Information. Know the Truth. :)
Source Link: http://omnisense.blogspot.com/2015/07/higher-vibration-is-not-necessarily-always-better-new-age-mind-control-operations-mapping-electromagnetics.html
Thoughts?
greybeard
7th July 2015, 19:36
Omniverse all of your OP is most likely true.
However I doubt that you can control all of the people all of the time.
Best wishes
Chris
Omniverse all of your OP is most likely true.
However I doubt that you can control all of the people all of the time.
Best wishes
Chris
Oh they can't control people all of the time., I agree.
Baby Steps
7th July 2015, 20:29
We know that higher 'dimensions' are described as higher vibrationally. And we know that higher dimensional beings can be quite negative so it fits.
One of the new age theories I quite like is that we are in the game of vibration raising, and shortly this involves a light/dark fork in the road, so some beings will be vibrationally refining and building their darkness.
I think such beings go on, and it's a separate path back to oneness, but I am speculating.
ghostrider
7th July 2015, 20:45
Without spiritual knowledge\learning higher vibrations are the most dangerous thing a person can have... It caused some huge problems in the past, started a global war that spread out to three planets , and was the source for murder and suffering on earth , and we are still stuck in the mindset of confusion ... All over getting too smart too fast without knowing and using the fruits of the spirit... Love, peace, freedom, harmony,joy, oneness with nature, and basic respect for all life ...
betoobig
7th July 2015, 21:46
What i am learning is that non vibration is better than other, just different. what you do with a diferent vibe or the way, path in between and through out them is the point. i feel higher vibes and feel absolutly great. Thanks to the rise of vibes i´m flowing through all the outside caos ...
...And i am ready for a diferent dimension, yesterday; enhough of this one.
BTW Our brain is prepared for higher vibes in fact only will work 100% in higher dimensions.
Much LOVE high vibe
Juan
We know that higher 'dimensions' are described as higher vibrationally. And we know that higher dimensional beings can be quite negative so it fits.
One of the new age theories I quite like is that we are in the game of vibration raising, and shortly this involves a light/dark fork in the road, so some beings will be vibrationally refining and building their darkness.
I think such beings go on, and it's a separate path back to oneness, but I am speculating.
What i am learning is that non vibration is better than other, just different. what you do with a diferent vibe or the way, path in between and through out them is the point. i feel higher vibes and feel absolutly great. Thanks to the rise of vibes i´m flowing through all the outside caos ...
...And i am ready for a diferent dimension, yesterday; enhough of this one.
BTW Our brain is prepared for higher vibes in fact only will work 100% in higher dimensions.
Much LOVE high vibe
Juan
I think when one is tired they are lower vibration, and when they are lets say wired on coffee they are higher vibration. At least I feel like my consciousness is higher vibration when I drink coffee. I could be wrong about that theory but I doubt I am. If that is wrong other people are judging vibration wrong I bet too.
Every conscious energy and emotion can be higher or lower. I have had high fears and low fears. High loves and low loves. In general I can agree a higher vibration can be better. But it doesn't mean better in every case.
I think ghost is onto something in that higher vibration may cause someone to act on things more or be more active, and I add more prone to attention problems and ADHD in some forms of it. ADHD is a high vibrational problem IMO.
The very highest vibrations possible in consciousness do not mean suitable or desirable. In fact I would say they are undesirable. Kind of like how when you have sound volume too high. Even an orgasm loses its goodness once you go too high in the range of orgasmic feelings,...I have felt many technological orgasms including ones that go too far, too much of the electrical signal or something, and it makes it not as good as the perfect zone for the orgasm,....sry for the topic material maybe TMI but its purely scientific/for analysis of truth... I mean senses are kind of like cheese. Gouda cheese is best(IMHO) after 9-12 months of aging. Any more and its starts to lose it's rich taste. There is a sweet spot for cheese. Just like there is a sweet spot for vibration.
I think it is much more about finding the right particular truth frequencies of mind and programming, than actually going on a linear scale of higher lower. The highest vibrations are too high. Just like the sound spectrum. The best sounds are never in the extreme of the EQ/frequency. They are more in the middle, although bass and highs can be both awesome. I have had some zen moments of low frequency in sleep deprivation that were absolutely amazing...
Maybe consciousness could be related to sound. It's about finding the right sound, not about finding the highest frequency sound.
Maybe consciousness could be related to sound. It's about finding the right sound, not about finding the highest frequency sound.
could it be perhaps like music, harmony in music, how you go from high to low and low to high, how you blend the different vibes. maybe consciousness is not a singular vibration but a collective vibration blended together which by itself a singular part of still a bigger collective vibration. As far as I can tell existence is vibratory it goes from highs and lows and lows and highs. Being aware of the bigger collective vibration makes you adept to tuning your own vibration to the collective thus existence becomes more desirable. So in general its about tuning in your own and tuning in to the collective and not about high or low vibes. just a thought
Maybe consciousness could be related to sound. It's about finding the right sound, not about finding the highest frequency sound.
could it be perhaps like music, harmony in music, how you go from high to low and low to high, how you blend the different vibes. maybe consciousness is not a singular vibration but a collective vibration blended together which by itself a singular part of still a bigger collective vibration. As far as I can tell existence is vibratory it goes from highs and lows and lows and highs. Being aware of the bigger collective vibration makes you adept to tuning your own vibration to the collective thus existence becomes more desirable. So in general its about tuning in your own and tuning in to the collective and not about high or low vibes. just a thought
I totally agree. I was just on skype not long ago talking to a friend about this who is into vibration stuff. You can isolate any energy, like love. I related it to a song. There are highs, there are lows. It has both elements in the song. Love can be both high and low frequency. The rapidity of the rate does not determine the actual energy itself, just the frequency of the wavelengths. You can experience love in any vibration of consciousness, it just may have some nice sweet spots in both low and high frequency mindsets.
Lancet
8th July 2015, 02:34
Omniverse
what is your take on solfeggio frequencies? Is that a "sweet spot" for humans?
tq
Omniverse
what is your take on solfeggio frequencies? Is that a "sweet spot" for humans?
tq
I do not go by hz I go by what sounds the best. I think there is definitely something to different than standard modalities of audio expression though(couldnt find the word for it, expression will do). Sometimes those sounds sound a lot worse than industry standard ones. I am not sure humanity standard for music is right, but if something sounds the best that is what I go with.
I don't know which hz is best, or what the different hz do. All sorts of psy ops so I think it's possible some of the stuff on youtube claiming stuff doesn't do what it says. But I'm open minded.
I wouldn't consider myself very in the know when it comes to solfeggio frequencies though.
Ultima Thule
8th July 2015, 06:32
I find this very plausible. If one thinks of higher vibration as better, the idea imho probably is wrong. I would suggest it is what you DO or how you EXIST with your vibration is what matters. I´ll just throw in an idea: perhaps the service to self vs service to others or fear vs love -pairs might describe your relationship to your vibration.
UT
Edit: perhaps one other way to put it is: being in tune vs out of tune, be it a low or high vibration it needs to be in tune with the other music to be of help.
Baby Steps
8th July 2015, 07:01
If someone on the light path raises their vibration, they face challenges as unresolved darkness is turbo charged. It's two steps forward and one step back. It is the path of healing.
In my experience, when people start working like this, something nasty pops up (to be healed/integrated), and they cannot face it & they stop progressing.
That is the challenge!
as I was saying:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-and-related-matters.&p=976523&viewfull=1#post976523
yelik
8th July 2015, 07:44
I think the understanding of vibration/ frequency/ energy / harmonics and resonance is a very important subject.
When we hear certain harmonies and sounds our body knows in an instant whether we like it or not.
I generally saw raising our vibrational level as realisation of the deception of the system of Governance and ditching certain out dated human frailties like greed, lust for power and materialism, where we have respect and genuine inclination to help others, especially those in greatest need. Any positive changes to our vibrational activity, for want of a better word, will occur naturally and without great effort or trying to force the issue, we are what we are!
Many levels of conciousness exist that largely remain unexplored, according to Dr Richard Millar at least 7 different levels exist.
At the same time this does not mean we put aside common sense and stupidly forgive the Cabal for their crimes against humanity, that must not be allowed to go unpunished, in my opinion.
Unfortunately the Cabal utilise frequency combinations tuned into our brain patterns outside normal hearing to influence our will to act in a negative way.
As I understand healing beds based around harmonics and light do exist and likely operate at the DNA level.
kirolak
8th July 2015, 07:48
When I used to practise both energy work, mantra and void meditation over several hours each day, I felt so abstract that it was hard to stay focussed in the world, and not to drift out of body. And I felt disturbed by noise, crowds, light. . . . it was hard even to go shoping for food. So I believe that raising the vibration too high while attempting to live a normal life at the same time is often counter-productive. Often we need grounding more than anything else; I now meditate (Vipassana) for about 30 minutes each day & incorporate energy work into my short morning yoga practise. I hope my experiences may be valid for others as well . . .Namaste All!
RunningDeer
8th July 2015, 18:04
Tai Chi is a moving meditation. The root (grounding) is an important part of the art. My Tai Chi play has changed since 1988. Early on, practice was for outward expansion. Now I engage and flow with the different levels rather than follow the ancient traditions.
My current belief is astral tricksters may hitch a ride on the energy when one is lost to present moment, i.e., overly yin, head in the clouds, imbalance of right brain activity. There is also it’s opposite; over analyzing, mind chatter, abundance of yang energy, imbalance of left brain activity. Both extremes are free tickets for the tricksters.
Attention to grounding, purpose of experience and connection of physicality, and earth connection are parts of the experience. As well as experiencing inner and outer as one in the same. The reality? The aforementioned is done when I go for a walk. More often than not, it’s an automatic response when I hear the birds squawk and sing. It grounds me into present moment while at the same time I use it to merge with wherever my imagination takes me; the flower, the tree, the bird and wind…
I keep it simple. Mind, body, spirit grounded and present. It changes the energy patterns. At times, I feel that I dial the energy up or down. I get confirmations that’d be meaningless beyond myself. The inner knowing is enough to enjoy and in-joy the mysteries.
<3
Aspen
8th July 2015, 18:32
I agree that there is likely manipulation going on regarding teachings that higher frequencies are superior. It is possible that it is easy to manipulate humans in this area because frequency and vibration is not visible to the human eye. I find it frustrating to think about clearly because I don't clearly understand the terms. Can we define some of the terms please? What is the difference between low and high frequency , resonance, vibrations etc. Maybe then we can pinpoint where are we being muddled in our thinking, where the weakness lies in the argument that higher frequency is somehow more spiritually evolved? I think it is likely that we are comparing apples and oranges. Love and service to others are supposed to be higher frequency - but are they really??? I also wonder how this topic relates to radionics? Maybe a good understanding of how radionics works would help us to clarify our terms and know when frequency manipulation is helpful or not. I often use bach flower remedies after having worked with clients with symptoms of PTSD. It seems to help me release any heavy emotions, sadness or fear that I may have picked up from my clients. These remedies work through energy healing. Each flower has a specific frequency.
Like others, I have noticed that some low vibrations are very pleasurable. For example, drumming. I have large buffalo hide drum and the vibrations from it are definitely low frequency and the experience of the low frequency is soothing for my clients and myself when they are drumming. I have also found, like Running Deer has mentioned, that spending some time in nature is very calming too me. After an hour long walk in the forest nearby I feel grounded. Nature is likely a complex mixture of various frequencies, like a symphony. I wonder if all this focus on high frequency of an artificial nature is ungrounding for us and keeping us in an anxious state? A trick of some kind. . . .
Aspen
8th July 2015, 18:41
jveKIYyafaQ Higher frequencies definitely are more painful to listen to . . .
Aspen
8th July 2015, 21:36
I found an article based on research using machines to discover the average frequency of the human body when it is healthy and also the frequency of specific essential oils. http://www.biospiritual-energy-healing.com/vibrational-frequency.html Very interesting! Some of this research may be the basis of the idea that higher frequency is better for the human body and our health:
"Studies conducted in 1992 by Tainio Technology, as an independent division of Eastern State University in Cheny, Washington, reinforce the findings of these earlier researchers. Tainio and colleagues determined that when a person's frequency drops below the optimum healthy range, the immune system is compromised. Findings supported by this research indicate that:
•Human cells can start to change (mutate) when their frequency drops below 62MHz.
•58 MHz is the frequency of your body when you have a cold or the flu.
•When candida is present within your body, you vibrate at a frequency of 55MHz.
•52 MHz is the frequency of a body with Epstein-Barr virus present.
•42 MHz is the frequency of a body wherein cancer can appear.
•When the death process begins - the frequency has been measured at 20 MHz."
However, for a substance or environmental influence, just being of a higher frequency does not guarantee healthful effects for humans. Another key idea is that any frequencies we are exposed to should be of harmonious frequencies, that is, harmonious to us. Electronic devices can create frequencies that are chaotic for humans, that is, be incompatible or disharmonious.
"
Effects of Outside Influences on Body Frequency
The study of frequencies raises an important question – how do the frequencies of substances found in our environment affect our personal frequency? Based on his studies, researcher Nikola Tesla said that, if we could eliminate certain outside frequencies that interfered in our bodies, we would have greater resistance toward disease.
Pathogens have a low frequency. Pollutants - both particulate and radiation (EMF) - lower a healthy frequency. Processed and canned food having a frequency of zero can greatly diminish a person's own frequency.
Even thoughts and feelings have a vibratory quality that forms a measurable frequency. A negative mental state can lower a person's frequency by 10-12 MHz.
Likewise, a substance or influencing factor - such as thoughts, emotions, and frequency devices - in our internal and external environments can also serve to raise our frequencies. For example, a positive mental attitude, prayer or meditation can raise it by 10-15 MHz.
A substance with a higher frequency can raise a lower frequency due to the principle of entrainment - the tendency for two oscillating bodies to lock into phase so that they vibrate in harmony. This principle is key to understanding the effect essential oils can have on our personal electromagnetic frequency.
However, different types of frequencies can have a chaotic or a harmonizing effect on our own systems. When something vibrates at many dissonant frequencies, it produces “chaotic or incoherent frequencies.” (David Stewart, The Chemistry of Essential Oils Made Simple).
For example, all of the electrical devices in your home – lamps, television, radio, phone, microwave – emit electromagnetic vibrational frequencies that are incoherent and chaotic. Their effect is to fracture the human electrical field.
By contrast, Dr. Rife’s frequency generator and most naturally occurring substances –including essential oils – have coherent frequencies that resonate harmoniously with the electrical field of the human body."
Then there are skeptics who claim that there is no evidence whatsoever for energy healing or the power of sound or other forms of frequency and vibration to heal http://skepdic.com/vibrationalmedicine.html
But if this is true how is it possible that scientists claim that they have instruments that measure the sound produced by DNA? Apparently it sounds quite beautiful according to a May 2014 article http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/03/05/reprogram-dna-heal-ourselves-frequency-vibration-energy/
"Russian linguists, Dr. Pjotr Garajajev and Vladimir Poponin found that DNA does follow similar patterns and rules to human language, but this is not the most interesting information, by a long shot. In fact, biologist, Dr. David Deamer and Susan Alexjander, who holds an MA in music, have discovered that DNA makes its own beautiful music before we even try to alter it. The two measured the actual molecular vibrations of DNA and recorded it using an infrared spectrophotometer. They exposed each section of DNA to infrared light and measured the wavelength it absorbed, and therefore determined its sound frequency. What it made was ‘hauntingly beautiful’ music. “Some of the combinations of frequencies,” Alexjander said, “. . .they are just stunning. It sounds alive to me.”
The article concludes that "While certainly an interesting idea to muse, hard evidence that frequency and vibration can directly effect DNA and the body’s healing processes is still forthcoming, however, there is an ample body of experiential human evidence to inspire and warrant further examination of this topic." Can science measure frequency and vibration or not? It seems it can, but somehow proving that it is healing or beneficial has not been satisfactorily proven to mainstream science.
There appears to be obfuscation going on. I suspect it has to do with the fact that conventional medicine produces a lot of profit. If they allowed energy healing into research hospitals and discovered they worked as effectively as conventional medicine it could save sick people a lot of money.
For those interested in how energy medicines claims are being tested with machines in a mainstream scientific way here is a pdf of a 2015 conference. It shows how light therapy is being used effectively in hospitals, among other therapies http://www.issseem.org/content/uploads/files/PDF_conference2015/2015_ISSSEEM_-_Maret.pdf
Flash
9th July 2015, 04:16
DNA music
some sound from Suzan Alexjander: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/salexjander
the first piece is at and is the insulin DNA music at minute 18:20.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEkcHhXC5i4
Finefeather
9th July 2015, 14:44
As said in my mapping electromagnetics article, the entire universe and every thought form, concept, conscious energy, emotion, and more can be deciphered by electromagnetics via electronic telepathy.
From an esoteric point of view your post has many errors…
Having said that, and without going into great detail, I would offer this comment on just this one statement you have posted.
I should remind readers that it is up to each of us to come to our own experienced conclusions and not any which is based on what is read or believed.
The above statement is largely untrue... let alone impossible in some instances, from a physical world level.
First the entire universe is made up of multiple levels of atomic worlds...49 in fact… most of which are, from a physical measurement point of view, inaccessible to man made machines or devices.
The highest vibration/atomic world level that can be accessed is only what is known and called electromagnetic... and this is only so because of the capabilities of these inductive type devices. Man made devices have limits and can certainly not reach the entire universe's frequency ranges.
At the very best these devices can only reach one level above the physical gaseous…which is know in quantum terms as the plasma level or 4th state of matter.
I would remind those who are aware of this, that man made detecting devices are only capable of detecting matter in a relatively low state of vibration, from a Cosmic point of view… almost insignificant compared to the entire vibration range of the Cosmos.
Thought forms... which are mentally created emotional world manifestations... are manifest in the emotional/'astral' world which no man made device is capable of detecting… simply because they are above the range of man made equipment.
“Conscious energy”… as you call it… does not exist, because consciousness is not energy… consciousness is awareness… thought is a consciousness expression… so it is not consciousness which manifests energy it is thought which manifests energy.
The only thing that man made devices are capable of measuring or manipulating or recording are those which arise from organic etheric worlds… and whilst these may appear to be thought waves… they are definitely not.
The human organism is controlled by etheric energy which is electrical in nature, and this electrical impulse, which runs through our nerves, is a result of the consciousness expression of the Being/Self/Soul who has incarnated into that body…
So if we design a machine which can control the electric/nerve circuit of our organic body… and there are many in existence… then it is only the organic body which is affected and NOT the Being/Self/Soul… it only appears as if the Self is being manipulated because most people think that they are their body.
So...lf I may then just comment on your basic premise that "higher vibration is not necessarily better":
This statement is misleading and incorrect, to say the least.
Higher vibration is ALWAYS BETTER than lower vibration… because the entire Cosmos is formed from the top down in ever decreasing rates of vibration… until we get to the physical world... AND thus ever increasing rates of density.
By using the word 'better' you are displaying an ignorance… and I use the word ignorance in the nicest way, which is a lack of knowledge… of the nature of the Cosmos and it's manifestation.
'Better' is a relative term based on our limited understanding of what life is all about… for some people better is not always better because they simply do not know what's good for them and what's bad for them
I also notice that you mention “dark ETs” in your post as if this is some common reality..
There are no such thing as “dark ETs”.. this is a common deliberate indulgence made by many who pretend to write truth and use this term to impress the ignorant reader that they have some first hand experienced knowledge of this non existent fictitious phenomena.
Dark forces are only capable of existing in the physical/ emotional/ 'astral'/ mental worlds, because of the nature of Cosmic manifestation… and these worlds are part of this planet's constitution… the Beings which are classed as dark are humans like you and I who have just slipped deeper into the darkness of human despair and evil ways… they are not ETs … they are our brothers who need our higher vibration of love and our higher vibration of care.
Take care
Ray
I am not saying that ET's don't exist, I am saying there is no such thing appearing in our planet... they are not allowed in this planet's space.
Flash
9th July 2015, 15:15
Thanks for your comments and mostly for your take on helping our human counterparts who felt in utter darkness, with vibrations of love and care.
It is very difficut for me to explain that technologies are only useful to help the human body and perceptions in some aspects, in 3D world, while the humans are not truly developed yet, but that most powerful and "higher" states can be reached without technologies, that the human body is built to be refined sufficiently to reach those states. We can be staying without technologies and still reach the higher states with unimaginable powers dstributed with love and wisdom. This, many do not see.
- Talking to Omni here: Being hook in technologies to have expériences of full love looks like addiction. Filled state of love can be reached naturally, coming in few moments to start with and then increasing. Manipulating the brain to feel love is not love. It is chemical manipulation of the brain, no more than adding any chemical or addiction to some love hormones for example. There is no comparison in worderment between what is lived in the first state (naturally achieved innerly love) and the technologically induced one. Can you imagine???
However, I have one remaining question for you FInefeather, that has been there for years and years. You say that dark forces are only capable of existing in the physical, emotional, astral, mental worlds. On this planet, I agree. But what about cosmis dark forces, implementing fear on this planet. Do they exist? Are they taking the form of reptilians once here? How come would human beings be diving in such darkness as we see on earth? Isn't there something pushing it on them?
I understand that if those cosmic forces exist, this is not my work to deal with it, I leave it to higher beings. My work is on earth, with earth beings and mostly with myself. However, my question remains. I cannot come to term with thinking that human beings are creating those dark forces all by themselves, even at cosmic levels, although it may be it too.
One thing I know for sure is that going above/more Inside, the physical, emotional, astral, mental worlds, means that darkness has no more reach.
As said in my mapping electromagnetics article, the entire universe and every thought form, concept, conscious energy, emotion, and more can be deciphered by electromagnetics via electronic telepathy.
From an esoteric point of view your post has many errors…
Having said that, and without going into great detail, I would offer this comment on just this one statement you have posted.
I should remind readers that it is up to each of us to come to our own experienced conclusions and not any which is based on what is read or believed.
The above statement is largely untrue... let alone impossible in some instances, from a physical world level.
First the entire universe is made up of multiple levels of atomic worlds...49 in fact… most of which are, from a physical measurement point of view, inaccessible to man made machines or devices.
The highest vibration/atomic world level that can be accessed is only what is known and called electromagnetic... and this is only so because of the capabilities of these inductive type devices. Man made devices have limits and can certainly not reach the entire universe's frequency ranges.
At the very best these devices can only reach one level above the physical gaseous…which is know in quantum terms as the plasma level or 4th state of matter.
I would remind those who are aware of this, that man made detecting devices are only capable of detecting matter in a relatively low state of vibration, from a Cosmic point of view… almost insignificant compared to the entire vibration range of the Cosmos.
Thought forms... which are mentally created emotional world manifestations... are manifest in the emotional/'astral' world which no man made device is capable of detecting… simply because they are above the range of man made equipment.
“Conscious energy”… as you call it… does not exist, because consciousness is not energy… consciousness is awareness… thought is a consciousness expression… so it is not consciousness which manifests energy it is thought which manifests energy.
The only thing that man made devices are capable of measuring or manipulating or recording are those which arise from organic etheric worlds… and whilst these may appear to be thought waves… they are definitely not.
The human organism is controlled by etheric energy which is electrical in nature, and this electrical impulse, which runs through our nerves, is a result of the consciousness expression of the Being/Self/Soul who has incarnated into that body…
So if we design a machine which can control the electric/nerve circuit of our organic body… and there are many in existence… then it is only the organic body which is affected and NOT the Being/Self/Soul… it only appears as if the Self is being manipulated because most people think that they are their body.
So...lf I may then just comment on your basic premise that "higher vibration is not necessarily better":
This statement is misleading and incorrect, to say the least.
Higher vibration is ALWAYS BETTER than lower vibration… because the entire Cosmos is formed from the top down in ever decreasing rates of vibration… until we get to the physical world... AND thus ever increasing rates of density.
By using the word 'better' you are displaying an ignorance… and I use the word ignorance in the nicest way, which is a lack of knowledge… of the nature of the Cosmos and it's manifestation.
'Better' is a relative term based on our limited understanding of what life is all about… for some people better is not always better because they simply do not know what's good for them and what's bad for them
I also notice that you mention “dark ETs” in your post as if this is some common reality..
There are no such thing as “dark ETs”.. this is a common deliberate indulgence made by many who pretend to write truth and use this term to impress the ignorant reader that they have some first hand experienced knowledge of this non existent fictitious phenomena.
Dark forces are only capable of existing in the physical/ emotional/ 'astral'/ mental worlds, because of the nature of Cosmic manifestation… and these worlds are part of this planet's constitution… the Beings which are classed as dark are humans like you and I who have just slipped deeper into the darkness of human despair and evil ways… they are not ETs … they are our brothers who need our higher vibration of love and our higher vibration of care.
Take care
Ray
I am not saying that ET's don't exist, I am saying there is no such thing appearing in our planet... they are not allowed in this planet's space.
Don't you think the whole concept of "better" or being better is a psy-op as well?
I do find what you are saying worth considering and appreciate your work. It has opened my mind up to many more possibilities.
Finefeather
9th July 2015, 16:25
However, I have one remaining question for you FInefeather, that has been there for years and years. You say that dark forces are only capable of existing in the physical, emotional, astral, mental worlds. On this planet, I agree. But what about cosmis dark forces, implementing fear on this planet. Do they exist? Are they taking the form of reptilians once here? How come would human beings be diving in such darkness as we see on earth? Isn't there something pushing it on them?
The goal of life is consciousness growth... now you can look at this from any angle you like... and from any religion or philosophy you like... in all the many groups and collectives.
Most people do not see that we all have equal rights to the TOTAL Cosmic consciousness which exists… nothing prevents us from knowing it all except our own effort. We also do not see that our individual share which we are capable of been aware of, at any point in time, is just what we have experienced up to the present moment.
And so we should realise that some have made more effort to realise a greater amount of the total consciousness of our Cosmos.
So although we are equal in potential and have equal rights… we are not equal in consciousness growth… and this means that there are those out there who are further advanced than we are… much further.
As we grow in consciousness we become aware of the nature of evil and what affects it has on our growth… and what becomes more difficult or less difficult to attain.
We start to realise the nature of evil in our Cosmos and how it prevents consciousness growth… and how it causes suffering and pain… even if this is actually self generated because of ignorance of the laws of nature and the laws of life.
Cosmic evil is no more than the evils which prevent Cosmic consciousness and evil cannot exist in higher worlds because it takes a greater amount of consciousness to be able to access or become part of these higher worlds.
Life is an electric phenomena which is of such a nature that lower levels of frequency (vibrations) cannot exist in higher levels of frequency… BUT higher levels can exist in lower levels...that is simple science even at our gross physical level.
The nature of evil is gross dense and of a low vibration… there is no 'evil' which displays a refined nature and a high vibration…
So Cosmic evil is a myth created by those of us who do not fully understand the nature of the higher worlds in the Cosmos. Evil can only exist in lower worlds because that is the nature of electric phenomena.
There is no God playing policeman preventing those who are evil from accessing higher worlds… it is the laws of nature and life which prevent this from happening… and they are unmoving in their exactness… no one can ascend to higher worlds without the correct vibrational signature which comes from obedience to the laws.
Humans will never gain access to any technology which could upset Cosmic balance because there is still too much 'evil' in play… and as I said 'evil' is a vibrational form which needs to be discarded.
No Being (Self/Monad)... or race of Beings...no matter which planet they inhabit are immune to the laws of this Cosmos.
So any Extraterrestrial Race of Beings who have earned the right to access advanced technology know that they have earned this by consciousness growth and rejection of 'evil'…
There are no Extraterrestrial Race of Beings in this Cosmos who have advanced technology and use it to prevent earth humans from achieving consciousness growth… the only Beings who are able to do this in earth are humans themselves in there desperation and jealosy of those who have achieved more than they have.
There is much much more that we could discuss here and it is a complex issue… no doubt… and who am I to think I know all the answers.
With love
Ray
Finefeather
9th July 2015, 16:35
Don't you think the whole concept of "better" or being better is a psy-op as well?
I can certainly agree with you here in some instances... but we need to keep our perspective.
Example: When someone bribes someone... who has little idea of what life is all about... with say a new free car or money, for some dark favour... the person's life may become better physically from his/her point of view... but someone who understands the nature of 'evil' and it's many disguises would reject this offer knowing that it is not the right thing to do.
The problem lies in the knowledge we have of life and it can take many many lifetimes and trials and errors before we get the picture.
Take care
Ray
Thank you, Ray... You keep me thinkin,,, and humbled... You are patient, yet direct and my admiration for you cannot be measured..
I have a question about this,,,
So any Extraterrestrial Race of Beings who have earned the right to access advanced technology know that they have earned this by consciousness growth and rejection of 'evil'…
What of the races who HAVE NOT engaged conscious growth and/or rejected evil,, yet still have technology? A monkey can shoot a gun!
Humans, by your definition, have not earned the right to high technology, yet we have begun to explore the cosmos in our physical spacecraft.. I certainly hope if we come across a race of less intelligent folks,, they don't assume that our high tech is a sign of our deserving it... Because back on planet earth, it is a damn shame what we do with it... no, I can't assume that at all..
Your post was brilliant, btw... leave it to me to point out the one thing I disagre with... lol...
Peace
jake
Finefeather
9th July 2015, 18:12
I have a question about this,,,
So any Extraterrestrial Race of Beings who have earned the right to access advanced technology know that they have earned this by consciousness growth and rejection of 'evil'…
What of the races who HAVE NOT engaged conscious growth and/or rejected evil,, yet still have technology? A monkey can shoot a gun!
Humans, by your definition, have not earned the right to high technology, yet we have begun to explore the cosmos in our physical spacecraft.. I certainly hope if we come across a race of less intelligent folks,, they don't assume that our high tech is a sign of our deserving it... Because back on planet earth, it is a damn shame what we do with it... no, I can't assume that at all..
Your post was brilliant, btw... leave it to me to point out the one thing I disagre with... lol...
Peace
jake
Hi dear Jake
It would be natural to assume that something might be out there to spoil our well intended picnic... :) but at some point in our growth we begin to realise something called trust in life.
Trust in life eventually comes from a knowing based on 10s of thousands of incarnations in many different places and worlds. It comes in the form of recognition of how life has treated us and what should and should not be done and what we are capable of with our current knowledge and experience.
A monkey can only shoot a gun because it has been shown how to do this and gained access to the gun by the ones who thought up the device and the idea of killing other beings… be they animal or humans… for their own reasons and agenda.
Those who have advanced in consciousness and who have attained such characteristics as unconditional love know now the 'evils' which humans get up to with these weapons of destruction.
There comes a time, with greater consciousness growth, when people will turn from the use of such devices even if it meant that their lives were in danger because they know that they are not the body, which is the only thing in danger… they will also know that there is a law of cause and effect which cannot be dodged if they needed to work through it in one of their lives.
How many times have you heard of people 'cheating' death with what might be called 'some miracle”… of course we know now that there are no miracles… only good and bad reaping of our past actions.
Lets look at the 'high tech' you talk of…
Not one thing that man has 'invented'... be it a space craft... or a trip to the moon... or a device to examine the internal workings of the body… or whatever we think is 'amazing' has actually contributed one thing towards us becoming more peaceful, or has improved the brotherhood of man, or even remotely has allowed us to know that we are in fact Monads who incarnated into organic bodies for the purposes of consciousness growth.
Everything we 'invent' is either to make money from... or to use on people to make money from… or to divide people by killing those who we do not want in our group.
Name me one high tech thing which has brought humans closer… as in real brotherhood.
Name me one high tech thing which has made one human love another...truly
There is not one 'high tech' 'invention' which we depend on for life… try to name one.
Everything we have 'invented' and 'created' as 'high tech' is a failure when it comes to the true goal in life.
Basically we are still largely in the barbaric stage and probably 95% of what we think we know is based on fiction...our history is false...we don't know who we are, where we come from... and where we are even meant to go...we are basically very ignorant...we just think we are so intelligent.
On the other hand when we advance in consciousness and into higher worlds, spacecraft become obsolete because we do it in our light bodies at thought speed…
We can form bodies out of atomic matter in what ever shape and size we want.
Disease becomes obsolete… so we need no drugs and pills and shots and scans and messy bloody operations to fix our bodies which we have messed up because of ignorance.
We do away with all the 'high tech' we have today because it serves no purpose.
Need I continue :)
With love
Ray
Ray, yes please continue.. :) if only just a bit... I agree with you 1000 percent about high tech and humans. It is very much BECAUSE of that that I would not assume that any space-bound race has rejected evil just because they have much more sophisticated technology. I think we, as a developing race, are in the throws of adolescence, and are experiencing many of the pains of natural growth... And we, as a race, will eventually be able to look back and see how we have 'grown up'. In my mind, you are spot on,, every developing race would eventually realize and except these fundamental/universal laws in their path. -Eventually-... That does not mean that Every space-bound race is developing, or even cares to... I can point to at least one aggressive, warring, non-deserving race that is space-bound,,, Humans...
And,, I appreciate your council,,, you are right.... at least for my part,,, my biggest problem these days is trust... There will come a point where I will transcend that too... That does Not mean that there isnt a Reason, to not trust,, only that I remove myself from the path of deceit. That layer of deceit is still alive and well... And that is not okay... A regressive race CAN hold another in bondage.. We do it to every other species on this planet, regardless of their conscious growth...
Love to all..
jake
greybeard
9th July 2015, 19:21
Ray I agree with what you say within the limits of my understanding.
For me the prime thing is Self realisation---the ego is the cause of bigger, faster, better society, which seems more preoccupied with materialism than the well being of even their neighbour.--There are many exceptions of course.
I am aware that Self Realisation, Enlightenment is not as far as evolution goes but possibly this is highest vibration possible in this heavy density environment.
We are contaminating the environment with wifi signals, these are far from healthy and people rarely talk face to face--its mainly on mobile, face book or forums Lol
Im not at all convinced that TPTB are as powerful or as much in control as they would like us to think they are.
Anyway the more one does to raise their vibration the better placed they are to resist "negativity" in all its shades and forms.
Chris
As said in my mapping electromagnetics article, the entire universe and every thought form, concept, conscious energy, emotion, and more can be deciphered by electromagnetics via electronic telepathy.
From an esoteric point of view your post has many errors…
The errors are in your own understanding and mis-perceptions.
The above statement is largely untrue... let alone impossible in some instances, from a physical world level.
First the entire universe is made up of multiple levels of atomic worlds...49 in fact… most of which are, from a physical measurement point of view, inaccessible to man made machines or devices.
...
What exists in the universe, that cannot be held within the mind? Consciousness can understand everything in the universe. So basically you are saying technology cannot reproduce the electromagnetic and other signals our brain uses to interpret these things.
It can, and does. I have witnessed it. Electronic Telepathy can reproduce every conscious energy, emotion, frame of mind, all of it.
Extraterrestrials use electronic telepathy for communication all over the universe... What use would it be if it couldn't express everything you can express in the mind?
Every thought and emotion you have has scientific mechanics that are behind such. Nothing comes from nowhere... It all has functions and processes. Every process can be reproduced by technology.
So no, I am not incorrect. Although I'm sure I'm incorrect from a certain "standpoint". An incorrect one that has no experience with these technologies.
I have witnessed countless full in depth images in my mind via electronic telepathy. So it is easily assumable they could put any image.
I have witnessed countless different conscious energies and telepathic voices via electronic telepathy. It can reproduce any telepathic voice(that explains all the disinformation in the contactee field reasonably to me).
I have witnessed enough words via electronic telepathy to know all language can be conveyed with electronic telepathy.
I have witnessed emotions via electronic telepathy. All of them are possible via full electronic telepathy suite.
I have witnessed over a dozen different extraterrestrial conscious energy signatures via electronic telepathy. All of them can be reproduced with the correct electromagnetics.
And much more. Basically every thoughtform you can have can be redone by technology. This will all likely be proven in my lifetime if i live to be an average age(next 40 years I'd say).
You can't witness the lack of something in the universe so easily, but you can witness the presence of it much more clear sometimes... :)
The highest vibration/atomic world level that can be accessed is only what is known and called electromagnetic... and this is only so because of the capabilities of these inductive type devices. Man made devices have limits and can certainly not reach the entire universe's frequency ranges.
What black project manmade devices do you have access to? Are you saying manmade technology on a public level is the end game? I'm finding logical holes in your reasoning... The most advanced technologies can reproduce every electromagnetic form in nature, minus maybe some cosmic events like perhaps the size of the center of a galaxy, things of that nature etc. Something on the scale of a human? They can do.
"Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do.”
~Ben Rich, Former Lockheed Martin Skunk Works Employee ~ Thought of as the "Father" of the Stealth Bomber
I do not get my knowledge from that quote though. I just know it's a good quote ;)
At the very best these devices can only reach one level above the physical gaseous…which is know in quantum terms as the plasma level or 4th state of matter.
I would remind those who are aware of this, that man made detecting devices are only capable of detecting matter in a relatively low state of vibration, from a Cosmic point of view… almost insignificant compared to the entire vibration range of the Cosmos.
What I meant by the entire universe being deciphered is all knowledge that is in existence, which is a finite amount, can be conveyed via electronic telepathy. If you can think it, it can be done by technology.
Thought forms... which are mentally created emotional world manifestations... are manifest in the emotional/'astral' world which no man made device is capable of detecting… simply because they are above the range of man made equipment.
Firstly, thoughtforms in the way I meant it include concepts, energies, emotions, etc. All frames of mind. Meaning everything possible within a consciousness. I know this to be fact from experience, you seem to know what you know from something other than witnessing it... One of the most important parts of disillusionment is to know when you know something, and to know when you do not...
Secondly, you are talking about natural ones. I am talking about synthetically created ones. It is not controlling the soul. The soul cannot be controlled by human sources(as far as I know). The soul I guess could be seen as being in the "astral" world... However it too is subject to technology...
I do note that all variances of what we experience mentally can be reproduced by technology. So telling if it is fake, would be you were helped, or the source isn't sophisticated enough. I know this first hand Finefeather. So I know you are mistaken.
I have had countless synthetic emotions and experienced every sense barraged by technology. I guess what you mean by saying 'not within esoteric knowledge' is you read it somewhere and assume it's true(probably a new age website)...
This will all be proven by science, what I say. Hopefully soon. So while I doubt you will be able to consider this post(its for the readers really), eventually it will be self evident hopefully.
“Conscious energy”… as you call it… does not exist, because consciousness is not energy… consciousness is awareness… thought is a consciousness expression… so it is not consciousness which manifests energy it is thought which manifests energy.
I find it logically unsound to categorize consciousness as "awareness". At best if you want to put it philosophically into a word it could be "perception", although that is much more scientific as well than your description(although perhaps not all encompassing).
Mankinds knowledge about the soul is not very good right now. So it is easy to get away with misinformation or worse...
There is all sorts of disinformation in the alternative fields of esoteric knowledge. If you are targeted by black ops for 8 years overtly and with high intensity and see what they do to people you would recognize it everywhere as well.
The only thing that man made devices are capable of measuring or manipulating or recording are those which arise from organic etheric worlds… and whilst these may appear to be thought waves… they are definitely not.
You are no expert on this. You appear to think you are...
So if we design a machine which can control the electric/nerve circuit of our organic body… and there are many in existence… then it is only the organic body which is affected and NOT the Being/Self/Soul… it only appears as if the Self is being manipulated because most people think that they are their body.
Technology can do much more than you realize. You are basing your knowledge on what is known in a very infantile society. The soul cannot be controlled ***by human sources***(as far as I know), but the mind can. The soul can also be negated from affecting the consciousness. That is essentially fallen angel transhumanism. Replacing the soul and genetics with AI. And yes it is quite real...
So...lf I may then just comment on your basic premise that "higher vibration is not necessarily better":
This statement is misleading and incorrect, to say the least.
Higher vibration is ALWAYS BETTER than lower vibration… because the entire Cosmos is formed from the top down in ever decreasing rates of vibration… until we get to the physical world... AND thus ever increasing rates of density.
In a song I created yesterday the lower vibration sound I love much more than the higher vibration (; You are incorrect. The universe is more complicated than a linear higher lower standard when it comes to consciousness. You can experience love while in a lower rate of vibration. Wouldn't that be better than fear in your normal state of vibration?
I think you are basing your knowledge on psy ops(things like channeling and New Age Black Ops Infiltrated Sources) to be honest.
By using the word 'better' you are displaying an ignorance… and I use the word ignorance in the nicest way, which is a lack of knowledge… of the nature of the Cosmos and it's manifestation.
I really don't understand how using the word better is ignorance, anymore than stating this as you just did:
"Higher vibration is ALWAYS BETTER than lower vibration…"
You just used the word yourself.
'Better' is a relative term based on our limited understanding of what life is all about… for some people better is not always better because they simply do not know what's good for them and what's bad for them
What you are talking about the perception of what is better. A case in which the person is incorrect in thinking it's better. Dumbfounding you would call me ignorant for that usage. I guess I hit a nerve with opposing your beliefs... jeez.
I also notice that you mention “dark ETs” in your post as if this is some common reality..
There are no such thing as “dark ETs”.. this is a common deliberate indulgence made by many who pretend to write truth and use this term to impress the ignorant reader that they have some first hand experienced knowledge of this non existent fictitious phenomena.
Humanity is an ET to the rest of the universe. Dark humans exist. There are countless worlds on our own level of development if you do not count the malevolent races that evolved to be dark. So conclusively ETs are dark out there in the universe...
The darkness on this world is not by coincidence or simply greed and hatred etc IMO. I guess we are at different states of knowing, however we may lie on the scale of truth...
Dark forces are only capable of existing in the physical/ emotional/ 'astral'/ mental worlds, because of the nature of Cosmic manifestation… and these worlds are part of this planet's constitution… the Beings which are classed as dark are humans like you and I who have just slipped deeper into the darkness of human despair and evil ways… they are not ETs … they are our brothers who need our higher vibration of love and our higher vibration of care.
Offer love to a psychopath and you will be used. Reptile ETs are very dark at times, almost the entire field of UFOlogy agrees with me. What explains abductions with Greys? What explains people waking up with a Mantid ET standing over them in their bed? At the very best you could say "look what humans do to animals, its the same". That isn't an adequate answer to me. What humans do to animals is a dark thing to do in the context spoken about.
I am not saying that ET's don't exist, I am saying there is no such thing appearing in our planet... they are not allowed in this planet's space.
I have seen ETs in person as well as their ships, but ok :)
I sent one of the best neuroscientists on the planet my article about mapping electromagnetics. This is what he replied with:
Dear Omnisense,
I have read the information you suggested.
Your concepts are thoughtful and systematic. They are consistent with the emerging areas of quantum biology and the re-emergence of Mach's principle, Eddington's concept of the perception of the universe, and Bohr's suggested equivalence between the incremental components of changing energies in electron shells and thought.
The operations and principles within your statements can be tested. The limit of most experiences involves the determination of the validity of the attribution (source). This is a variant of Goedel's incompleteness theorem. In the final analyses that might be least important compared to the discoveries that are made because of those assumptions.
Thank you for your e-mail.
Dr. Persinger
Thinking about this further:
If you don't think emotions have something to do with the brain, why do drugs change people's emotions. Doesn't seem so "astral" to me...
3(C)+me
9th July 2015, 20:57
Ray, I agree with you more than disagree with you.
Omni, you have seen many things, and have gone through some difficult situations. But remember all this techo wizardy you swear by all takes place within a certain frequency range. It is for the purposes of empire, control and manipulation in very dense matter. But...do I think for a minute that these same devices and tactics can be used at frequencies that are less dense and have done away with working with extreme density and control. Who come from a heart based sensibility?
These same gods/darpa/Cia, psy-ops can only really get to you if you are operating within a certain frequency range, fear is the best tool in their toolbox. If you operate outside of that range, no dice.
Ray, I agree with you more than disagree with you.
Omni, you have seen many things, and have gone through some difficult situations. But remember all this techo wizardy you swear by all takes place within a certain frequency range. It is for the purposes of empire, control and manipulation in very dense matter. But...do I think for a minute that these same devices and tactics can be used at frequencies that are less dense and have done away with working with extreme density and control. Who come from a heart based sensibility?
These same gods/darpa/Cia, psy-ops can only really get to you if you are operating within a certain frequency range, fear is the best tool in their toolbox. If you operate outside of that range, no dice.
I have conquered fear. What conquering fear is, is basically not allowing fear to effect your decisions. I can still have fear, but my decisions(unless controlled) come from reason. Conquering fear also makes fear pretty much useless of a tactic used against you.
What you are basically saying is I am a dark or flawed human being. The people who know me know otherwise. I have been in the best mood around, very great vibes, love common, and been mind controlled before, also attacked... This stuff works on everyone, it's easy to say it doesn't work on you when they do not target you(at least to your knowledge).
I am not saying they are all powerful. The biggest thing protecting anyone from covert transhumanization is exopolitical parties. The second biggest is just the mechanics of being resistant to these technologies. Nobody is immune though.
RE: Fear; I have had so many technological fear experiences of intensity that natural fears cannot reach. As result of them hitting me so hard with their fear tactics and chakra fears as tortures I have become immune to them. I even have liked a certain blue fear in my chakras put there before(I would not want it though as I believe fear is dissonant).
You speak from a place of truly unknowing from where I sit. People desire that to be, so they just believe it because it's more comfortable.
"I've come to realize that the biggest problem anywhere in the world is that people's perceptions of reality are compulsively filtered through the screening mesh of what they want, and do not want, to be true"
~Travis Walton
Once the targeting goes overt on you unless you are majorly psy op'd with technological illusions(which does happen) you get to understand it's capabilities. It can control happy loving people just as it can control dark people. What really takes more hold on dark people and dysfunctional people is external mind control methods. Internal mind control and electronic harassment can happen to anyone. Nobody is immune to it. For example I get hit with a scalar technology to make me super nauseated. Nothing can stop that. High vibration low vibration, good vibration, bad vibration, it does not matter.
And the fact of the matter is the mind has no firewall. Ask the pentagon, they wrote a study on it. What I speak of will all be proven. If you need some evidence watch this video:
Fledgling neuroscience that shows promise in these technologies:
_O_aGlm9QjU
Omni
10th July 2015, 00:10
It is for the purposes of empire, control and manipulation in very dense matter. But...do I think for a minute that these same devices and tactics can be used at frequencies that are less dense and have done away with working with extreme density and control. Who come from a heart based sensibility?
Everything in the universe has a purpose(probably lots of purposes). All these technologies can be used for just about any purpose, and for any agenda. Technology is largely neutral IMO(minus a few things like nukes), and the user of it makes it good or bad or both. These technologies are used 99%+ on earth right now in negative ways, so I can agree there. But in the future we will be using these to make life quality better and communicate better. Electronic telepathy will revolutionize the world... And that is right around the corner.
I have experienced the good sides of this technology. If I had the choice I would still be doing electronic telepathy, virtual reality, chakra technology, even mind control in ways(the implantless mind control). You've never truly heard everything music has to offer until you try music enhancing mind control technology, but I'm sure this will be a thankless post on Avalon from saying that. People here hate technology, and the programming related to mind control will not allow a clear view of such things I tend to think. I got a lesson in programming recently, it is so strong........... Anyway, I do not dislike technology, even after being so violated by it.
I challenge any Avalonian to go to a skeptic website and debate. You r eally get an introspection into programming, and you also get to see where your own debate is faulty if you are enlightened enough to see your own faults..........
In 200 years from now people will have a much better life quality as result of technology, I doubt they will be talking about densities and ascension though, other than why did people believe that.
Stuff like chakra altering technology can cure most mental ailments/illnesses without any negative physiological side effects. It can do things like remove all physical pain, and reduce so many forms of suffering. The end game technologies are nothing like smartphones, end game technologies are largely spiritual technologies to me. Technologies that enhance the experience... My words will be found as self evident in science not too long from now in the grand scheme of things... For the record, the beginning stages of human technology I would not touch at all, in fact I wouldn't touch any human technology when it comes to internal things in my mind.
Finefeather
10th July 2015, 11:15
That does not mean that Every space-bound race is developing, or even cares to... I can point to at least one aggressive, warring, non-deserving race that is space-bound,,, Humans...
(I need to warn anyone reading this that they should not blindly accept what I am writing here… you may keep this in mind as an alternative hypotheses but do not believe anything you read without first experiencing it first hand.)
Hi Jake
I see were you want to go here :) so lets explore this a bit.
You are saying that because humans are what they are... there must or might be others with the same bad attitude as us, and these are the guys we might need to be concerned about?
There are 7 different paths of evolution in our Cosmos... we only have access and a fair amount of knowledge of 2 of these…
1. The Human path of the evolution of consciousness... and
2. The Deva path of the evolution of matter .
We also know, based on the trinity, that the 3rd path is that of the evolution of energy or motion. The other 4 are sub evolutions of the matter aspect…
I'm not going to say anything more about this.
Our Cosmos is a class 2 Cosmos… which means it has gone through 1 entire consciousness evolutionary cycle and we are now in the second round and we are in the 4th 'phase'...Aquarian age... of this 2nd cycle… so we have 3 'phases' to go.
When the first cycle completed there were Monads/Selves who failed to complete their advancement to the 5th natural kingdom… which is one above the human or 4th natural kingdom.
These laggards :) from all over the Cosmos...from various planets...were rounded up and now form part of the current human collective of Monads incarnating into organic bodies… together with a new cycle of individualised Monads/Selves from the animal kingdom.
So we currently have a very large and colourful collection of Monads/Selves linked to this planet... and as you should note not one Self is left out...we can exercise our divine right and advance at our own pace... no one forces anyone and there is no retribution...we are all brothers.
This earth planet is the only planet in our Solar System which has organic life... all the other planets in our Solar System have their lowest level in the etheric world because of their higher level of advancement than those on earth.
For example Venus has the most highly advanced Selves in our Solar System.
They are known as bringers of light, and have assisted current humans during their early days of incarnation into bodies some 20 million years ago.
They did this by incarnating into the same bodies as humans... so they sacrificed greatly in their service to us...and there are still those who find fault and confuse them with Satanic practices in the confusion of names like Lucifer.
All other races on inhabited planets in other Solar systems have bodies formed from molecular/atomic matter in what is called a 'rupa' body...which is simply a name used in Hinduism and Buddhism for material objects.
So as strange as it may seem there are no barbaric races in this Cosmos… all the younger Selves and Older ones who have decided to take a while longer...they are all here in this planet...in many states of negativity and also not to forget those who come here in the name of true love and unity.
There is a Cosmic government which runs the workings of the Cosmos… there is also a Solar government and even down to a Planetary Hierarchy. These are the Selves who have all refined themselves and are highly advanced and are champions of unconditional love, unity and brotherhood.
We could chat about this for many weeks ... and thank you for your interest :)
With love
Ray
kirolak
10th July 2015, 11:20
We know that higher 'dimensions' are described as higher vibrationally. And we know that higher dimensional beings can be quite negative so it fits.
One of the new age theories I quite like is that we are in the game of vibration raising, and shortly this involves a light/dark fork in the road, so some beings will be vibrationally refining and building their darkness.
I think such beings go on, and it's a separate path back to oneness, but I am speculating.
What i am learning is that non vibration is better than other, just different. what you do with a diferent vibe or the way, path in between and through out them is the point. i feel higher vibes and feel absolutly great. Thanks to the rise of vibes i´m flowing through all the outside caos ...
...And i am ready for a diferent dimension, yesterday; enhough of this one.
BTW Our brain is prepared for higher vibes in fact only will work 100% in higher dimensions.
Much LOVE high vibe
Juan
I think when one is tired they are lower vibration, and when they are lets say wired on coffee they are higher vibration. At least I feel like my consciousness is higher vibration when I drink coffee. I could be wrong about that theory but I doubt I am. If that is wrong other people are judging vibration wrong I bet too.
Every conscious energy and emotion can be higher or lower. I have had high fears and low fears. High loves and low loves. In general I can agree a higher vibration can be better. But it doesn't mean better in every case.
I think ghost is onto something in that higher vibration may cause someone to act on things more or be more active, and I add more prone to attention problems and ADHD in some forms of it. ADHD is a high vibrational problem IMO.
The very highest vibrations possible in consciousness do not mean suitable or desirable. In fact I would say they are undesirable. Kind of like how when you have sound volume too high. Even an orgasm loses its goodness once you go too high in the range of orgasmic feelings,...I have felt many technological orgasms including ones that go too far, too much of the electrical signal or something, and it makes it not as good as the perfect zone for the orgasm,....sry for the topic material maybe TMI but its purely scientific/for analysis of truth... I mean senses are kind of like cheese. Gouda cheese is best(IMHO) after 9-12 months of aging. Any more and its starts to lose it's rich taste. There is a sweet spot for cheese. Just like there is a sweet spot for vibration.
I think it is much more about finding the right particular truth frequencies of mind and programming, than actually going on a linear scale of higher lower. The highest vibrations are too high. Just like the sound spectrum. The best sounds are never in the extreme of the EQ/frequency. They are more in the middle, although bass and highs can be both awesome. I have had some zen moments of low frequency in sleep deprivation that were absolutely amazing...
Maybe consciousness could be related to sound. It's about finding the right sound, not about finding the highest frequency sound.
In my experience, coffee/sound does not make a Higher Vibration - only a FASTER vibration, & I suspect we might be confusing the two?
Finefeather
10th July 2015, 11:35
Thinking about this further:
If you don't think emotions have something to do with the brain, why do drugs change people's emotions. Doesn't seem so "astral" to me...
Hi Omniverse
I am not going to get into a blow by blow match with you and reply to your extensive post above… because it simply further confirms my post.,, and the fact that you are missing the very basics of what life is all about.
But lets look at this new statement you made above.
It is clear to me that you might have good intentions and desires to assist others but the problem is that if we have no idea what humans are and what their constitution is… and most importantly what their true goal is, then all we are doing is sowing disinformation.
But allow me to respond to your post by attempting to give a basic idea of who we are… which will hopefully show you why you are not correct in your assumptions.
We all have 3 envelopes surrounding us… there are others, but we'll just concentrate on the first 3 because most people have only activated these 3...these envelopes… which I have seen on numerous occasions out of body...are what some know as the aura… some call these bodies… like astral body etc… but that term is not strictly correct.
They are the etheric/physical envelope, the emotional('astral') envelope, and the mental envelope.
A forth one called the causal envelope is only consciously activated in higher evolves Selves and although there are many currently incarnated… most would not recognise them even if they were staring them in the face… let alone understand what they say.
Every human is a monad or primordial atom to start off... and as we evolve through the kingdoms...the mineral, the plant, the animal and to the human we become more and more aware (conscious) until we reach the human kingdom where we become a true separate Self… separate from previous group 'soul' collectives as it is in the animal kingdom.
This separate Self/Monad/Primordial Atom… (current humans) now incarnating into an organic body is centred in one of these 3 envelopes...starting at the etheric/physical then moving to higher envelopes as we progress and become more conscious.
Currently the majority of humans have their Self centred in the emotional enveloped but there are also many in the mental envelope and as I have mentioned also those Selves who are centred in the Causal envelope.
So we can have an Emotional Human Being and a Mental Human Being and others…
The human brain is nothing more than a kind of step down transformer… it receives instructions from the 'Being' in which the Self is centred in.
So if we do some research and especially take note of those around us we will find people who are more emotionally oriented, and those who are more mentally orientated.
So...Drugs do not affect the Self they affect the organism and if the Self is centred in the emotional envelope then that Emotional Human Being will display many different types of results...all of them emotionally tainted.
And it is a known medical fact that many people can be cured of organic dis-ease simply by giving them a sugar pill.
Mentally oriented people will display very different results because they like to analyse things and they are not swayed easily by emotion.
So in real life we see many different kinds of people but there is 3 distinct boxes you could place most of them in..
Physically oriented… the body builders and those who are obsessed by their bodies and have all sorts of things done to make them look better etc.
Emotionally oriented… these people are swayed largely by whatever makes them feel good and are easily indoctrinated and controlled by emotional telepathy originating from group or collective forces… like when you go to a soccer match the emotions literally take over people lives.
Mentally oriented… these are the scientists and thinkers… they are usually level headed but can be dogmatic and can become stuck in the very hole they dug for themselves when they decided that a hole was the right thing to dig for themselves.
Of course we could go on and on here but if you pay attention to people and their reactions when they receive externally, you can tell a lot about them… you will certainly notice the very different reactions people have when taking drugs… be they recreational or pharmaceutical.
So the only thing the emotions have to do with the brain is that the emotions use the brain to control physical reaction.
And all brain wave logging and recording is just the organic effect which takes place when a Self/Being directs the organic body via the brain.
And did you know we have another brain as well?...known as the Solar Plexus it is used mostly in emotional interaction and we can notice this clearly if we are emotional because we get this feeling in the stomach area... which is the solar plexus chakra having some exercise :)
Take care
Ray
Finefeather
10th July 2015, 12:17
It is for the purposes of empire, control and manipulation in very dense matter. But...do I think for a minute that these same devices and tactics can be used at frequencies that are less dense and have done away with working with extreme density and control. Who come from a heart based sensibility?
Everything in the universe has a purpose(probably lots of purposes). All these technologies can be used for just about any purpose, and for any agenda. Technology is largely neutral IMO(minus a few things like nukes), and the user of it makes it good or bad or both. These technologies are used 99%+ on earth right now in negative ways, so I can agree there. But in the future we will be using these to make life quality better and communicate better. Electronic telepathy will revolutionize the world... And that is right around the corner.
I have experienced the good sides of this technology. If I had the choice I would still be doing electronic telepathy, virtual reality, chakra technology, even mind control in ways(the implantless mind control). You've never truly heard everything music has to offer until you try music enhancing mind control technology, but I'm sure this will be a thankless post on Avalon from saying that. People here hate technology, and the programming related to mind control will not allow a clear view of such things I tend to think. I got a lesson in programming recently, it is so strong........... Anyway, I do not dislike technology, even after being so violated by it.
I challenge any Avalonian to go to a skeptic website and debate. You r eally get an introspection into programming, and you also get to see where your own debate is faulty if you are enlightened enough to see your own faults..........
In 200 years from now people will have a much better life quality as result of technology, I doubt they will be talking about densities and ascension though, other than why did people believe that.
Stuff like chakra altering technology can cure most mental ailments/illnesses without any negative physiological side effects. It can do things like remove all physical pain, and reduce so many forms of suffering. The end game technologies are nothing like smartphones, end game technologies are largely spiritual technologies to me. Technologies that enhance the experience... My words will be found as self evident in science not too long from now in the grand scheme of things... For the record, the beginning stages of human technology I would not touch at all, in fact I wouldn't touch any human technology when it comes to internal things in my mind.
My view on this is that you are far too technology oriented and you forget... or may not even know... that no technology will EVER aid humans in their goal of consciousness growth... because consciousness growth is an inner exercise.
Technology is and will always be an effect and never a cause of human consciousness growth.
But don't get me wrong...I am not apposed to technology...it is a wonderful thing which has and will one day...when all the greedy guys have got over their addiction...be very useful... as a lot of technology is even today.
I can already brush my teeth now without moving my arm and do many things just by sitting on my aarse and pressing buttons...:)
The real technology is yet to come in the form of that which stems from the third aspect of life which is energy or electric phenomena etc..
And you are dead right about sound and music for the purposes of healing... it is already in use...
BUT... as humans grow and advance, machines to enhance and repair the body will slowly die out because we only think these technologies are useful now because we have not found the right way to treat our bodies yet...we are still too ignorant.
Already all over the world people are changing their quality of life by eating correctly and living in accordance with the laws of nature and life...for example...vegetarianism is not just a fad where you can now say you don't eat your friends anymore... but it is a way to refine our envelopes as part of our goal of consciousness growth and ascending to the next or 5th natural kingdom...free from disease and in a collective state of individualised harmony and unity.
We will begin to realise the part played by refining our molecular and atomic states.
Now this statement of yours intrigues me :)
In 200 years from now people will have a much better life quality as result of technology, I doubt they will be talking about densities and ascension though, other than why did people believe that.
You seem to have the impression that life on earth is the goal and that in 200 years things will start to look like a science fiction movie with craft flying over all the buildings and everything else we see in a Star Wars movie or what ever the movie is that tickles our science fiction fancy.
This is illusion and fiction at it's best and I would suggest that this would be the road to take if we want our website and writings to one day be just part of the pile of fiction and disinformation which was written back in the 21st century.
Take care now
Ray
Omni
10th July 2015, 13:15
We know that higher 'dimensions' are described as higher vibrationally. And we know that higher dimensional beings can be quite negative so it fits.
One of the new age theories I quite like is that we are in the game of vibration raising, and shortly this involves a light/dark fork in the road, so some beings will be vibrationally refining and building their darkness.
I think such beings go on, and it's a separate path back to oneness, but I am speculating.
What i am learning is that non vibration is better than other, just different. what you do with a diferent vibe or the way, path in between and through out them is the point. i feel higher vibes and feel absolutly great. Thanks to the rise of vibes i´m flowing through all the outside caos ...
...And i am ready for a diferent dimension, yesterday; enhough of this one.
BTW Our brain is prepared for higher vibes in fact only will work 100% in higher dimensions.
Much LOVE high vibe
Juan
I think when one is tired they are lower vibration, and when they are lets say wired on coffee they are higher vibration. At least I feel like my consciousness is higher vibration when I drink coffee. I could be wrong about that theory but I doubt I am. If that is wrong other people are judging vibration wrong I bet too.
Every conscious energy and emotion can be higher or lower. I have had high fears and low fears. High loves and low loves. In general I can agree a higher vibration can be better. But it doesn't mean better in every case.
I think ghost is onto something in that higher vibration may cause someone to act on things more or be more active, and I add more prone to attention problems and ADHD in some forms of it. ADHD is a high vibrational problem IMO.
The very highest vibrations possible in consciousness do not mean suitable or desirable. In fact I would say they are undesirable. Kind of like how when you have sound volume too high. Even an orgasm loses its goodness once you go too high in the range of orgasmic feelings,...I have felt many technological orgasms including ones that go too far, too much of the electrical signal or something, and it makes it not as good as the perfect zone for the orgasm,....sry for the topic material maybe TMI but its purely scientific/for analysis of truth... I mean senses are kind of like cheese. Gouda cheese is best(IMHO) after 9-12 months of aging. Any more and its starts to lose it's rich taste. There is a sweet spot for cheese. Just like there is a sweet spot for vibration.
I think it is much more about finding the right particular truth frequencies of mind and programming, than actually going on a linear scale of higher lower. The highest vibrations are too high. Just like the sound spectrum. The best sounds are never in the extreme of the EQ/frequency. They are more in the middle, although bass and highs can be both awesome. I have had some zen moments of low frequency in sleep deprivation that were absolutely amazing...
Maybe consciousness could be related to sound. It's about finding the right sound, not about finding the highest frequency sound.
In my experience, coffee/sound does not make a Higher Vibration - only a FASTER vibration, & I suspect we might be confusing the two?
A higher vibration is a faster vibration. Unless you are just talking about "better" in saying higher and not talking about frequency. That is what makes something higher frequency, the vibration/wavelength going faster. That was basically my point and theruiners point. A higher vibration is just faster, it isn't always better. It is about finding the right sweet spots IMO in frequency/vibration. Not a linear thing IMO.
Omni
10th July 2015, 13:34
Take care
Ray
Did you watch the Dr. Persinger video?
Jake
10th July 2015, 14:50
Omni? What is it about the astral that you must discredit? So you haven't experienced natural, organic sojourning? Persingers god helmet is a joke... I can poke a braind and cause strange effects too.. Science and phisics is about EVIDENCE not PROOF... Proof is a political term wher one uses evidence to support their claims.. Evidence is is raw and unjudged. When the evidence fits ones own PRECONCLUSIONS they tend to call it PROOF,, and they do so out of their own lack of EVIDENCE...
You have a strong, solid mind... Deny the astral all you want.... Deny in your heart the experiences of people... But dont get angry or confused when it comes back to you... Be strong in what you know. You, clearly, have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to astral, obe etc... So why do you pretend to... You say some difficult things to take in... Then you poo poo other experiences? What are you trying to PROVE to which you have zero EVIDENCE.. ?
Your belief -yes, BELIEF- in technology is unhealthy, if you intend to attempt to discredit others with it..
You have some amazing realizations ahead of you... Your experiences dont make you an expert on all things... nor do mine...
I listen to what you say with great amazement.. I cant believe that you would spend a single minute attempting to discredit what you dont know... I wouldn't do that to anyone... Ive been out of my body more than IN it.. Believe what you want to about it, no matter... What will you do when you find yourself beyond physicality, able to think perfectly clear,,, but nothing physical to CLING to??? Will you still worship technology?
Dude.. im backing off your threads... once someone becomes so sure of themselves that they discredit others, its time to move along, for me...
You have a solid piece of the puzzle... Without the other pieces,, we are flying blind... Please dont simply assume that your puzzle piece in any way gives a right to judge others... I had to learn that... please dont go down that path. It is a path that most folks wont go!!!
You havent experienced it, so it must be false? Well I havent experienced what you have... I wont judge you the same way, brother... :)
I think you are an amazing mind...
jake
Finefeather
10th July 2015, 15:02
Did you watch the Dr. Persinger video?
Hi Omniverse... yes I did watch the video...thanks.
First...You need to know that my presence on this forum is not to hurt people or deliberately put people down...I seek only to serve life...and have been doing this virtually all my life.
I am well aware of what can take place with the use of devices and the brain... but there are a few things we need to keep in mind so we don't rush off in a panic.
Telepathy is a natural human phenomena which most people have no idea is even taking place in their minds... animals are particularly good at it...humans have lost this conscious art since they were individualised because of the separation which took place and the fact that we now have our own causal envelope...and a host of other reasons we'll just skip now.
I often hear people say things like..."my intuition tells me this or that" when in fact it is not intuition it is telepathy... very few people have true intuitive experiences.
In the distant future telepathy amongst humans will become a conscious natural occurrence and language as we know it might even be discarded.
We are influenced telepathically by many things which surround us... and by other people, mind to mind...also from the sub conscious and even the super conscious...these all take place in our emotional and mental envelopes.
The video you presented is not telepathy because telepathy takes place at a higher level than electromagnetics.
We should not forget that electromagnetic waves are particle of matter... photons... which disturb a target like the brain in various ways...by force...the same as a sound wave or a light wave.
The brain transmits the senses it receives from physical matter...like music or speech...via the audio receiving section of the brain...to the Self in whatever envelope the Self is centered in at any point in time.
What is happening in this video is that brain audio is been stimulated by electromagnetic waves...a physical thing...and just bypassing the normal audio canal as it does when we listen to music...for example.
In the same way we can stimulate different sections of the brain to make us think that we are experiencing all sorts of things which we would experience with our 5 senses.
Of course in the wrong hands this technology could be used...and is being used...to confuse people...and those who are weaker can easily be controlled also.
It's a bit like placing a filter in front of our eyes and preventing us from seeing the real nature of some object.
We should not forget that our bodies are just a means to experience physical reality and if the body is messed with then the Self...the driver...the Being will be compromised...but ONLY for that life.
Scientists...including Dr Persinger have no idea what is taking place in higher realms of our being...they are all still too hooked on physical stimulation because most of them do not believe or even entertain the idea of a Self which incarnated into a body...let alone do they know what mind is or what consciousness really is.
As I have stated elsewhere...currently science is unaware of the true constitution of a human and everything they do is based on...and limited by inadequate technology.
I have some 30 years ago played around with tape recorders where we tried to contact the 'dead' and basically these devices are a failure simply because we have not yet uncovered the technology to contact this world...and influence it in any way.
Science has got no further yet...but it will in the future when humans are less aggressive and inclined to use such technology as some kind of weapon against the bad guys...depending on which side you're on.
Take care brother
Ray
Omni
10th July 2015, 16:13
Omni? What is it about the astral that you must discredit?
Please quote where I discredited the astral. Finefeather said emotions are astral developments and cannot be done by technology. That was the only reason I was mentioning it. If you reread the posts you will see i merely stated that what finefeather was saying comes from a natural sources, can be reproduced by technology. I never denied it. If you can't see your post was wrong after I have mentioned all this in this entire post, I'm not sure what to say... Please read the whole thing as you have entirely misjudged me.
So you haven't experienced natural, organic sojourning? Persingers god helmet is a joke... I can poke a braind and cause strange effects too.. Science and phisics is about EVIDENCE not PROOF... Proof is a political term wher one uses evidence to support their claims.. Evidence is is raw and unjudged. When the evidence fits ones own PRECONCLUSIONS they tend to call it PROOF,, and they do so out of their own lack of EVIDENCE...
Quick to throw out evidence you do not agree with, yet when science says reality isn't real you see it as greatness. I have experienced all this, so It has been proven to me. I am only relaying evidence as I see it. I'll take neuroscience over "esoteric standards(of the new age)" in many subjects.
How can it be a joke when people have had religious conversions just from experiencing it. I have never seen a religious conversion in my life in a one day process. You are being just as bad as the scientists you criticize. You throw out evidence as you see fit, and take science as proof when you see fit(See the reality is an illusion thread).
You have a strong, solid mind... Deny the astral all you want....
I do not deny it. But after experiencing what AI can do and knowing these technologies have been abundant for thousands of years influencing people, and may have not even been correctly identified for just as long,.... I theorize astral could be virtual reality technology, but with real beings. A sort of intranet where they initiate people to esoteric realities(the benevolent influence of it), and also psy ops(to control people's perceptions of reality). All that being said it is a theory of mine. I have believed it at times and other times been closer to on the fence. I can see the fallibility of belief. So I do not say I know astral isn't real.
You have misinterpreted me. If you don't think so, quote where I denied the astral. You wont find it. It didn't happen.
Deny in your heart the experiences of people...
I do not deny their experiences... If you actually paid attention you would realize Finefeather was denying my experiences, while I was just telling him there is an alternative to natural thinking.
I may deny or question their interpretation of their experiences though after being fooled of countless illusions over the years and overcoming them myself. Unless they are initiated to it's capabilities, nobody is a match for discerning this technology 99.999% of the time when it is ET grade methodologies being used(aka the safely covert methods with a very in depth psych and mind profile). It was a very hard lesson for me to learn.
You are basically denying my experiences if you say technology cannot reproduce any frame of mind, because I have experienced it and relayed that many times. So both you and Finefeather deny my experiences. Then I get accused of it. So often people are doing what they accuse me of. It's uncanny... I am like a mirror on forums.
But dont get angry or confused when it comes back to you...
I did not get angry. What would make you say that? When someone calls me ignorant they can expect a more brutally honest reply from me. I was perfectly calm.
Be strong in what you know. You, clearly, have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to astral, obe etc...
What is incorrect about what I have said about astral or OBE? I have had OBE experiences.
So why do you pretend to... You say some difficult things to take in... Then you poo poo other experiences? What are you trying to PROVE to which you have zero EVIDENCE.. ?
I linked Edward Snowden, a politicans brother, and one of the most famous scientists of the 21st century supporting my claims, as well as my own testimony(testimony is evidence jake, dont be like a skeptic....).
If you had researched mind control you would know it's credible. But this is the cream of the crop info about mind control. Most of it is crap about sex slaves and multiple personality's. That doesn't even begin to cover it.
And Jake, if you notice, I say things like:
"Very possible your experience was remote influencing technology."
Note how i do not say an absolute if I can help it(sometimes they do implant absolutes in my text via mind control, this is what i have to deal with day to day along with torture).
You are just being overly defensive and assumptive, your post against me is based on delusions about what I was saying, what I was doing, and what I know.
You wont see ascension in the next 3 years. You wont see a global revolution 99% chance. Nor will you see Jade Helm execute martial law and America destroyed. It's all psy ops. Hopefully Avalon will survive that long to prove me right to you(and you remember it).
I have a question for you Jake.
First some truth: They have known about controlling the mind in complex fashions since at the very latest the 1970s. Dr. Jose Delgado's book was published in 1969
Here are a couple quotes from his book(for yet more evidence you will likely deny):
“He shows how, by electrical stimulation of specific cerebral structures, movements can be induced by radio command, hostility may appear or disappear, social hierarchy can be modified, sexual behavior may be changed, and memory, emotions, and the thinking process may be influenced by remote control.”
Dr. José Delgado - Project MKULTRA Yale Neuroscientist, Physical Control of the Mind: Toward a Psychocivilized Society; inside the first page of the book on the sleeve.
“Autonomic and somatic functions, individual and social behaviors, emotional and mental reactions may be evoked, maintained, modified, or inhibited, both in animals and in man, by electrical stimulation of specific cerebral structures. Physical control of many brain functions is a demonstrated fact. It is even possible to follow intentions, the development of thoughts, and visual experiences.”
Dr. José Delgado, Physical control of the mind: toward a psychocivilized society
These were scientific observations in the 1960s or prior. This was public neuroscience in the 1960s. Hitler may have been doing this stuff in the 40s(Himler was assigned to the Nazi mind control project that eventually formed into mkultra).
Now it takes a little bit of logic,...
50 years of covert development, and probably the most assets used on mind control out of any black project... What do you think they have? Do you honestly think they have not progressed from public neuroscience in the 60's? Do you really think once they figured out they could control the minds of people remotely they wouldn't go ballistic on producing satellites that can do this?
And the real clincher, how often do you recognize remote influencing technology being used on the public? From where I sit someone even from a state of unknowing, it would be logical to assume it is relatively abundant by now once you realize what it is capable of just by going by official sources, not counting the real deep end of it from people like me.
My point: If you do not identify these technologies used often, or potentially being used, you are blind to them. Like Snowden said, this is used on millions of people, probably much more than even he knew. And Jake I take a bit of offense to you calling my knowledge of technology unhealthy. You do not really know me if you think I am unhealthy in any way other than how I take care of my body at times... I am not mentally unhealthy in the slightest.
Your knowledge of mind control is lesser than public neuroscience in the 1960s Jake...
Your belief -yes, BELIEF- in technology is unhealthy, if you intend to attempt to discredit others with it..
It is no longer a belief when proven under some definitions. What I speak of in the article was proven to me(the technology). I guess calling out potential psy ops based on extensive first hand experience has it side effects. One being what you just said.
You have some amazing realizations ahead of you... Your experiences dont make you an expert on all things... nor do mine...
I am not discussing all things in this thread nor have I ever professed to be an expert on all things. I am defending the OP article after being called ignorant and supporting disinformation.
I listen to what you say with great amazement.. I cant believe that you would spend a single minute attempting to discredit what you dont know...
You are right to not believe it. I did not discredit the astral.. If you mean my comment OBE's can be created with virtual reality technology and other imagery technology, that isn't discrediting it. I never said astral or OBE doesn't exist. I merely pointed out my knowledge on the subject, which seems to be absent in the world and in much need of exposure... And I get called unhealthy for it. Oh well...
I wouldn't do that to anyone...
What you have done is worse. You have called me unhealthy as a human being. Merely denying a belief of someone is pretty dam common on avalon. Calling someone unhealthy isn't.
I never denied astral or OBE in this thread at all, reread my posts. Seems you have programming against hearing OBE can be done by technology, either there is real OBE and synthetic OBE, or just synthetic, that is where I stand.
Either I have had an experience where they could control my mind, just being a soul out of body, or I had synthetic OBE experiences(where I was tortured profusely, i was just a ball of consciousness). I have been shown by ETs the ins and outs of virtual reality. It can reproduce any state of mind, and any visuals, including the real world when hooked up to imagery technology. You seem to have a negative reaction to the truth. That isn't my problem.
Ive been out of my body more than IN it.. Believe what you want to about it, no matter... What will you do when you find yourself beyond physicality, able to think perfectly clear,,, but nothing physical to CLING to??? Will you still worship technology?
This is a ridiculous distortion Jake. I do not worship technology. I like aspects of it, dislike other aspects. Your post is pure character assassination....
You have a solid piece of the puzzle... Without the other pieces,, we are flying blind... Please dont simply assume that your puzzle piece in any way gives a right to judge others... I had to learn that... please dont go down that path. It is a path that most folks wont go!!!
Quote where I judged others in this thread. Finefeather called me ignorant, you called me unhealthy . I did not judge either of you. I merely noted speculation and/or my knowledge about certain beliefs. More accusing me of what you are doing, also I'd note I am not doing what you accuse me of doing...
You havent experienced it, so it must be false?
I never said the Astral wasn't real, or OBE in any of my posts in this thread at all Jake. You are projecting bigtime. You seemed to thank every post disagreeing with me, and stated yourself you disagree with me. Would this be accurate with you and mind control?:::
"You havent experienced it, so it must be false?"
Technology is a huge part of the rabbit hole. It is behind a lot. I know this for a fact. People on this planet barely know anything about it. Which is why I speak up. Sometimes when I post I will post what I see that is missing. This can be unpopular I've noticed but it is contributing more than other strategies at times... The technological side is majorly missing on Avalon other than my own posts. It's almost always the mystical side. So I bring my own wisdom and knowledge to the table about technology that almost nobody else can bring. And you have devalued that now to readers who are influenced by your post...
Edit: Just found out the Snowden article is a hoax. I will take it down. Still have good evidence regardless IMO with the Jose Delgado book quotes and Dr. Persinger video...
Jake
10th July 2015, 17:26
:) You are brilliant, but quite one sided...
A reflexologist can make my finger twitch by poking my arm.. He can prove it to others as well... If he concludes that there is no sentient being that can make a choice to move their own finger then they are quit foolish...
Very well,, use words like -ridiculous- and say I am -character assassinating-... Ive got a mirror and a smile for you my friend...
Technology can only mimic or trigger what comes naturally.... Your contacts have the technology to travel interdemensionally, a fool I would be to deny that.. I did it 2 nights ago!! No technology required, whatsoever... A fool one would be to deny that...
Cheers..
jake
Omni
10th July 2015, 18:03
:) You are brilliant, but quite one sided...
A reflexologist can make my finger twitch by poking my arm.. He can prove it to others as well... If he concludes that there is no sentient being that can make a choice to move their own finger then they are quit foolish...
Very well,, use words like -ridiculous- and say I am -character assassinating-... Ive got a mirror and a smile for you my friend...
The Character Assassination:
"Will you still worship technology?"
1. I do not worship anything Jake. Not God, Not Jesus, Not Source, Not ETs, Not Technology. Worship is not a desirable programming to me, and is far out of my tastes. Stating I worship technology may alter how people view my whistleblowing testimony on technology...(information assassination)
"I cant believe that you would spend a single minute attempting to discredit what you dont know... I wouldn't do that to anyone..."
2. You saying I'm discrediting something when I am not, merely noting it is more complex than most realize.(information assassination)
3. You wouldn't do that to anyone, aka I do things to people that are bad (character assassination)
"You havent experienced it, so it must be false?"
4. Misleading, I never said astral or OBE wasn't real anywhere in this thread. (Spawning Misjudgments of Me)
5. The notion of rejecting something because one hasn't experienced it is wholly part of a flawed character and intellect (character + information assassination)
"Your experiences dont make you an expert on all things..."
6. Insinuating I am a flawed enough character to think I am an expert on all things (character assassination)
"I cant believe that you would spend a single minute attempting to discredit what you dont know..."
7. Stating I'm attempting to discredit something on purpose. This takes a flawed character and is so far from who I am Jake (character assassination)
"Your belief -yes, BELIEF- in technology is unhealthy, if you intend to attempt to discredit others with it.."
8. Stating I'm unhealthy (character assassination)
9. Stating I'm attempting to discredit others with my information (Both character assassination and information assassination)
10. Stating my testimony is a belief and not fact based observation (information assassination)
"What are you trying to PROVE to which you have zero EVIDENCE.. ?"
11. Misleading, I do have evidence (information assassination)
"Omni? What is it about the astral that you must discredit?"
12. Stating I want to discredit the astral (character assassination + information assassination)
"You, clearly, have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to astral, obe etc..."
13. Stating I have no clue about OBE when I actually have had OBE experiences (information assassination)
14. Stating I speak about what I have no clue about (information assassination + character assassination)
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Jake, seems you were offended by what I said in your misinterpretations and judgments. Your judgment of me was not sound in the slightest.
You can admit that can you, that you were wrong after reading my previous long post? For example stating I say something doesn't exist, when all I said was synthetic means can reproduce the same things.... If you say you are right, quote me where I stated OBE and astral do not exist in this thread. And for the record part of my post I edited after realizing the snowden article was a very calculated hoax(aligning truth with hoaxes is another psy ops tactic.......).
Nobody can ever quote me in these threads when they say Ive said something in them(falsely I may add). And nobody can debate well either. Notice how I have not judged you or Finefeather, yet both of you have judged me(as a person, we are not our beliefs).
Notice how neither of you respond to my questions or debate my points. You just go on about other things(at least finefeather showed great centeredness for the most part with slightly stabby energy i give him that). It is always character assassination or information assassination, and zero debate, and total throwing out of science whenever one sees fit. That is almost the entire internet for debating...... Everyone is so divided by their beliefs. So programmed to be offended when someone says a contradictory or alternative explanation.... You are not your beliefs. And I do not hold grudges, but others do...
Jake
10th July 2015, 19:06
I just want to say, for the record,, to whomever may be reading/participating,, Omni and I have engaged many of these -science vs spirituality- topics between one onother for a long time now, and can be a bit abrasive to one another without becoming too distraught..
Omni, I would never character assassinate anyone... im not even that clever.. Over and over and again I have said you are amazing, brilliant, and that your input is valid and important... Please stop with that... quote whatever definition you want,, you are only seeing what you want to in this regard...
You cannot say that because technology has been used against yo in unspeakable ways to synthesize realities,,, that THAT is the way of the world... You are projecting your experience onto others, and that is not your call.. I only know that because I had to tackle that issue myself.. It would be completely invalid for me to demand that my experience is the truth for All.. In a universe of impossibilities,, that would just be silly..
Now without giving you a reason to feel attacked,,,,,,,
Your notion that these types of experiences, and -new age- mindsets are a result of high technology and a-psy op- is wildly speculative.. And it puts the genuine experiencer of such things in the -victim- box.... If you must have that overall view of the human condition,,, please leave me out of it..
Jake
Finefeather
10th July 2015, 19:11
Notice how I have not judged you or Finefeather, yet both of you have judged me(as a person, we are not our beliefs).
Omniverse I never judged you once...please be real.
I said you were ignorant and you are...we all are...and if you think you are not then you have a very real ego problem.
I also specifically worded that “you are displaying an ignorance… and I use the word ignorance in the nicest way, which is a lack of knowledge “ because I know the sensitivity which people can display when using the word ignorant. In no way was I been derogatory...it is just that your ego was bruised in the altercation.
Reaction to external comment is a sure way of assessing a persons emotional status.
You also say you never judged me...but what could we call these statements by you... to me, then?
The errors are in your own understanding and mis-perceptions.
You are no expert on this. You appear to think you are...
Here you are clearly judging my perception and my self-esteem...not that it is of any significance to me...I have had too many judgements to mention...and I have learnt to listen to them and not reject them until I am satisfied that I have understood them and set them aside as either true or false.
It is not unknown that people who write books and articles on the internet need to be steadfast in their beliefs of the things they claim as facts.
It becomes a life locked into a belief which is often not easy to break out of because it might indicate an unsound mind… or bad research... if suddenly the facts presented are altered.
When these claims are challenged...and if one is only after truth one should be willing to accept criticism and judgement of the written claims.
One should also be prepared to admit to errors even if it means that our writings would be scattered in the pile of untruths because it does not belong in the truth section.
It is my view that you have not considered all aspects of the Cosmic vastness and complexity and have thus made claims which you will some day realise to be untue.
Take care
Ray
Omni
10th July 2015, 19:30
I've looked for what i thought I read, must have been reading too fast over the part you did say ignorant. Must have been mistaken. Sorry Finefeather.
I only said you were a little stabby because i interpreted you calling me ignorant, you did say ignorant somewhere, not sure how I read it wrong. I have been up 30 hours so maybe I shouldn't be posting. I have been under intense sleep deprivation via electromagnetic stimulants lately. I can only sleep once out of 3 days with the way they are using this tech. It is literally impossible to fall asleep unless they drop the stim, when they drop the stim I could fall asleep within 5 second if i was laying down. I heard DMT and the pineal gland(maybe pineal gland, very sketchy memory there) alter when we sleep. Well all that can be controlled...
I do disagree with this though:
no technology will EVER aid humans in their goal of consciousness growth...
The internet aids humans in conscious growth IMO. You've never grown from knowledge on the internet? I guess you could say one has to discern it and apply it and yes it is themselves, but technically that is "aiding" when you get fine info from places, spiritual info, scientific info, philosphical quotes, predictive programming and other dark tactics info(knowing it makes it a good deal less effective in my experieces), etc... Has Avalon never aided you in any way consciously for growth? It has for me.
I wont even get into end game techs, because almost nobody understand them. Sad the black ops agents are largely the only ones who know the full truth about these technologies. It certainly isn't well known on the net.
Omni
10th July 2015, 19:48
It is not unknown that people who write books and articles on the internet need to be steadfast in their beliefs of the things they claim as facts.
If I ever come to an area I know I was wrong I admit it. I did such on the david icke forum when I figured out it was not Greys and Reptilians torturing me but humans. I am very good in that department, too good really. I've taken a beating on the icke forum for that from people stating "you changed your story"... As if trillion dollar technology couldn't fool you either at first...
Basically an equivalent of what you are trying to tell me would be like me trying to tell you that you cannot consciously explore places when you sleep just because I read it somewhere and had never experienced it for myself. It's misinfo at best, and if these posts survive when all this is public science and you look back at them I think you will be embarassed. I'm tired of this thread, was in an amazing mood until i saw jakes post. It's lowering my energy to a negative lower state. Too many character assassinations and insinuations on me being flawed. I guess one could expect that if I am right in the OP. There is resistance to dislodging any psy op in the masses, if anything from their natural programming. If you are good at it good luck....
I may not respond again in this thread. If I see something too wrong about me that people might believe without me clarifying I will be obligated to post though...
Finefeather
10th July 2015, 20:16
The internet aids humans in conscious growth IMO. You've never grown from knowledge on the internet?
Actually it does not.
You are mistaking consciousness with physical memory knowledge accumulation.
Knowledge is certainly important but it means nothing if we do not have first hand experience of that knowledge...you cannot read or learn your way to higher consciousness.
Consciousness is the ability to be aware of or have perception in higher molecular and atomic worlds.
A simple example: You can read and remember as many websites as you like it will never get you to become clairvoyant.
Clairvoyance is the ability to see into the emotional/'astral' world, which most people cannot do.
Consciousness growth is a refinement of the envelopes which surround us and form part of our constitution...they can only be refined by inner self commitment to service to humanity and a striving towards unity...all of which are methods which reshape our true Self to attain a vibration signature which allows us to be conscious in higher worlds.
No amount of knowledge can do that...if that were so everybody would be gurus by now with all the amount of time people spend on the internet. :)
Ray
Omni
10th July 2015, 21:23
The internet aids humans in conscious growth IMO. You've never grown from knowledge on the internet?
Actually it does not.
You are mistaking consciousness with physical memory knowledge accumulation.
Knowledge is certainly important but it means nothing if we do not have first hand experience of that knowledge...you cannot read or learn your way to higher consciousness.
Consciousness is the ability to be aware of or have perception in higher molecular and atomic worlds.
A simple example: You can read and remember as many websites as you like it will never get you to become clairvoyant.
Clairvoyance is the ability to see into the emotional/'astral' world, which most people cannot do.
Consciousness growth is a refinement of the envelopes which surround us and form part of our constitution...they can only be refined by inner self commitment to service to humanity and a striving towards unity...all of which are methods which reshape our true Self to attain a vibration signature which allows us to be conscious in higher worlds.
No amount of knowledge can do that...if that were so everybody would be gurus by now with all the amount of time people spend on the internet. :)
Ray
I am not mistaking anything Finefeather, I just have a point of view that is not compatible to yours, so you cannot comprehend it without it being told to you. This is what I think(Have also had ET contact from Blond ETs and confirming):
The soul grows over time IMO. I think it can be programmed by what we do, feel, think, our logic, our beliefs, our heart, etc. So deep quotes I believe actually help grow the soul. What else would grow the soul but our experiences?
Monica Vogan
11th July 2015, 20:16
I've been following this thread from the beginning...just patiently biding my time and diligently taking in all responses from all participants.
I will not comment on anything said or implied...I feel this thread has pretty well run its course.
Forums are places where people of all walks of life can come and share their notions, knowledge, and thoughts without being
made to feel any less important.
It's virtually impossible for all participants on any particular thread...to all agree on what has been shared...
So let's all cut ourselves some slack and focus on what's truly important with regards to the state of our cherished existence on this Earth.
Omnisense started this thread and it has garnered interest and numerous responses... I think someone who can capture our interest in this way..deserves our respect.
I've followed Omni's work for quite some time now and along with over 1000 members following his work...have often
Marvelled at his gracious and patient demeanor towards my multitudes of questions.
Music producer, creator of numerous blogs, years of informative articles, completed Ebook with more to come...all these endeavours take a very healthy productive mind to create...nuff said.
Hervé
12th July 2015, 10:49
:mod: This thread does happen to have a topic... right? :mod:
:focus:
PS: I deleted 6 Off Topic, thread derailing posts.
Hervé
12th July 2015, 12:32
I am closing this thread for further consultation with all mods and admins!
Bill Ryan
12th July 2015, 13:04
I am closing this thread for further consultation with all mods and admins!
Thanks. :sun: I'd not read the thread before, and have done so now. It's a highly-charged topic, and an interesting and important one. It totally belongs here on Avalon.
Ray (Finefeather), Jake and Omni had been having an intelligent, spirited and energetic conversation. All healthy and good, and totally what the forum's for. Kudos to everyone. :highfive:
Ray then seemed to get a little upset (see his post #55 above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=977517&viewfull=1#post977517)) with Monica's harmless and well-intended post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=977357#post977357), and the quality of the conversation deteriorated to a degree. Hervé was right to remove those posts from the discussion.
(Note: if anyone ever wants to be sent copies of anything that's been deleted, we will of course do that. No posts re ever hard-deleted, and the content can be retrieved by the mods very easily for any member's personal reference.)
To help us all in our learning, if any of us, however impassioned, use words like 'ignorant' and 'disinformation', others are sure to be upset. The challenge we all face is to engage in healthy debate (the purpose of which is NOT to prove ourselves right, but to explore issues so that we all emerge wiser and with more understanding not only of each other, but of the issues at hand).
I'm re-opening the thread, which is a valuable one. Thanks to all for your contributions. No bad guys here — I am sure — but what we do have as a variety of views and perspectives (and thank goodness for that!). If we can find ways to express those with respect for all concerned, then everyone here wins.
:sun:
RunningDeer
12th July 2015, 13:37
I therefore request that my membership be deleted.
Take care all.
Ray
Ray, please stay.
I’ve been following this thread and have appreciated and learned from your perspective and Jake and others. I've taken notes, too. They're all color coded. :blushing:
I follow Omniverse to better understand him as an individual. But my journey is to experience through the mind, body, spirit, organically.
Omniverse, this isn't a put down. What happens when I read your material is my mind goes blank and/or I'm unable to retain it even when I've read a post(s) 3-4 times. Based on my experiences, it means the information is not for me. Not that it's 'negative'. My journey takes me down different roads.:hug:
Love,
Paula
Wind
12th July 2015, 14:09
I concur, Ray shouldn't leave. Disagreements happen sometimes and that's okay.
Finefeather
12th July 2015, 14:18
I am closing this thread for further consultation with all mods and admins!
Thanks. :sun: I'd not read the thread before, and have done so now. It's a highly-charged topic, and an interesting and important one. It totally belongs here on Avalon.
Ray (Finefeather), Jake and Omni had been having an intelligent, spirited and energetic conversation. All healthy and good, and totally what the forum's for. Kudos to everyone. :highfive:
Ray then seemed to get a little upset (see his post #55 above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=977517&viewfull=1#post977517)) with Monica's harmless and well-intended post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=977357#post977357), and the quality of the conversation deteriorated to a degree. Hervé was right to remove those posts from the discussion.
(Note: if anyone ever wants to be sent copies of anything that's been deleted, we will of course do that. No posts re ever hard-deleted, and the content can be retrieved by the mods very easily for any member's personal reference.)
To help us all in our learning, if any of us, however impassioned, use words like 'ignorant' and 'disinformation', others are sure to be upset. The challenge we all face is to engage in healthy debate (the purpose of which is NOT to prove ourselves right, but to explore issues so that we all emerge wiser and with more understanding not only of each other, but of the issues at hand).
I'm re-opening the thread, which is a valuable one. Thanks to all for your contributions. No bad guys here — I am sure — but what we do have as a variety of views and perspectives (and thank goodness for that!). If we can find ways to express those with respect for all concerned, then everyone here wins.
:sun:
Hi Bill
First 'Ray' never ever got a little upset...I have long since conquered my dependence on emotional subjugation....for humans to become true Selves one group should not dominate another...We see too much emotional drama getting in the way of growth.
Then I would like to just point out that the word 'ignorant' is a legitimate term used to signify a lack of knowledge...and as I was once enlightened as to...this word may also be used as in 'ignoring' some existing truth or facts out there which, after having encountered such knowledge, or after having not ignored it, one might come to a different conclusion to what is currently in someone's thinking and belief.
Instead of being rational about our state of knowledge we are egocentric in thinking that we individually know it all...I have on many occasions in posts stated that I am ignorant, and, I happen to know it very well...but that is only possible...and only dawned on me... as and when I became more and more aware and conscious of the big picture of life and the vastness of the Cosmos.
Then the word 'disinformation' is something which most here on Avalon are well aware of... after.. on a number of occasions...after many many members were drawn in to the 'truth' of someone's fictitious claims... and who many members have hailed as god's gift to us... was proved and found out to be just someone's imaginative emotional self created illusion, based on the power of the ego trying to become a 'bringer of truth'.
It is good and fair and necessary to maintain a state of integrity on a forum of this nature...but when it becomes filled with fiction it becomes a place of conflict and division because as much as our ego's don't like it...there are people out there and in this forum who know when something is truth or not.
I have never willingly belittled anyone on this forum...and if it is going to take a few words to upset some...then it is time for us to realise that life is not about stroking peoples bruised egos...but to gain sovereignty over our lives by knowing exactly who we are...and only straight talk can do that.
I wish you well
Ray
Bill Ryan
12th July 2015, 14:49
-------
Many thanks, Ray — all very much appreciated. I was just pointing out that 'ignorant' and 'disinformation' are quite charged words, likely to upset or offend others and work counter to moving the discussion constructively forwards.
Many members get things wrong sometimes on the forum, and we're all on our journeys of learning... sometimes proffering incorrect views, or citing incorrect sources, with all the best motivations.
But 'disinformation' implies knowing malintent, and I don't see that here (regardless of whether you personally agree or not with aspects of Omni's presentation). Saying that you think that someone doesn't have it all quite right has quite a different tone — and a different effect on the reader, and, importantly, the person you're talking about. :)
Agape
12th July 2015, 15:53
I am not mistaking anything Finefeather, I just have a point of view that is not compatible to yours, so you cannot comprehend it without it being told to you. This is what I think(Have also had ET contact from Blond ETs and confirming):
The soul grows over time IMO. I think it can be programmed by what we do, feel, think, our logic, our beliefs, our heart, etc. So deep quotes I believe actually help grow the soul. What else would grow the soul but our experiences?
But do you actually, understand and appreciate any of Rays point Omni ,
not to speak of others who do not automatically agree with your theory and statement , yes I speak on the topic here ,
and it won't go away with further arrogance and simple social bashing that's been used repeatedly in your threads Omni
such as : ''you're not expert imho '' or ''to my knowledge i am the only person/contactee to whom this information is available'' .
I stood fully against anyone who would use the same tactics against you when I thought you may use some protection but here,
this is absolutely not personal , not towards you Omni , not towards Bill, Ray or moderators team ,
this is not a game where one of you states "I am strong enough to take you down , with your opinions and theories'' and ''you weaklings get out of my thread'' .
Do I sense something of that sort occurring here ?
Yes I do.
Great topic IF you were also willing to accept broader frame of knowledge AND experience offered to you here by others ,
without either 'knower' or 'experiencer' taking each other down .
I can't agree with the general thesis of this thread being the only one or accurately understood .
It's not 'your thesis' after all, there are thousands of scientists working on the 'theory of consciousness' these days and those coming like you , from purely agnostic ( no need to insert any 'theism' to the equation here ) and technical backgrounds position their opinion somewhere , very close to yours .
I call this tunnel vision ( in scientific trends ) and effort to proof by brute force ( as in programming ) that consciousness can be subjugated , programmed , that Life itself is really not more than pattern programable into inorganic matter .
The same people are somewhat infamous , sorry to say , for their arrogance in general and blindness to ancient sources and scientific explorations of old that predated them and relied on different principles .
There's little place for apology here ..
either your topics/threads are meant only for your followers and those who agree with your theories without compromise ( in order to avoid word arguments and immature offences ) ,
or they're part of larger forum , I'd say more than international forum ,
where people bring their knowledge in, sometimes much deeper than you can 'scan' by surface views , number of thanks bellow their posts , number of followers or any such methods of 'evaluation' your generation considers so substantial ,
not all also come forwards with their deep experiences of ET contact , for similar reason,
humankind has choices , many ways to go .
If you feel so dominant and certain with your theories however as your sub-culture dictates ( it's simply also that not in all cultures 'knowers' are automatically also famous, boasters and cheered by crowds everyday )
it may be .. sort of .. culturally unacceptable that someone like me partakes in intelligent discussion here,
no, I don't deserve or need being 'taught' about anything from you here and being told I'm not expert enough ,
and looked down by some who are only stirred by crowd movements and numbers of subscribers .
I'm happy to learn on my level, with love, grace and courtesy .. for I've learned a lot already ..
and in my world , what I saw occurring in this thread has no place , no meaning .
:sun:
bruno dante
12th July 2015, 17:15
I was just reading some of the fascinating dialogue here between some of our highly intelligent members, and I was wondering Ray where you're getting your information. You seem quite certain of yourself...not in an arrogant way or anything, just certain...and it's made me curious.
I only ask because I'm familiar with Omni's background - he's written of it quite extensively. And I'm familiar with some of Jake's experiences. It gives me a point of relativity from which to operate in a way. I'd certainly be interested in some of your backround and experiences. Your ideas are very interesting and I'd love to know how some of them originated.
Thanks.
Aspen
12th July 2015, 17:36
Wow . . . I came back to this thread because I wanted to post a youtube video that I thought would be relevant to the original discussion. I hope it is not now too tangential. I don't quite understand what all the conflict is about as I do not have the time to read through the entire thread. However, I do think the issue is a very important one. I do believe that there has been manipulation and lies about the value of higher frequencies. I do suspect it has something to do with a false New Age religion ( the powers that be try to infiltrate everything). While it is true that healthy people generally have a slightly higher frequency than people with depression ( for example). And that, therefore, people in general benefit from raising their frequency a bit (because of all the stress most people are under) it does not mean that it is beneficial to raise our frequencies above a certain range. Maybe our planet is increasing in vibration because of forces beyond our control (from space clouds of dust or changes internal to the earth) , but that does not mean we are all going to become spirit and go off to nirvana by staying with the frequency of the earth. Teaching that higher frequencies are better is a very general and rough way of twisting and lying about a complicated topic. This is my personal take on it coming from the trauma therapy point of view (and Bach Flower practitioner point of view). Generally I see people with PTSD and in almost every instance I am encouraging people to intentionally calm down, slow down, be gentle with themselves. It is only when we are calm and feeling emotionally safe that we can release residual fear that is stored in us. A calm state is alpha or theta and means lowering the frequency of our brain waves. It also leads to clearer and more rational thinking, creativity. I do agree that using natural means of slightly raising our frequency (such as eating living foods, spending time with nature, spending time with other people who are healthy, exercising, engaging in creative pursuits) are a safe way to increase frequency a bit and becoming coherent energetically.
Many people on this forum will be like myself coming back to this important topic wondering what the conflict is all about that has developed on this thread. I wonder if the two sides of the conflict could summarize their points of view?
I noticed from studying the Schumann Resonance yesterday that many New Age type people who believe in spiritual ascension are posting that the Schumann Frequency of 7.83 hz( the heartbeat of planet earth, and the normal human heartbeat or on this frequency) are saying that the Schumann frequency has been increasing. This appears to be a lie. Apparently the Schumann Resonance is a an average or composite frequency that is affected by solar activity and other factors like daytime and nighttime (on the NASA site) but that in general it is determined by the diameter of the earth. A man who has been monitoring it for 40 years says it is NOT rising. Our sun is going into a solar minimum cycle now and so solar activity is not going to be increasing the Schumann Frequency. It appears that someone is using numbers to fool the New Agers. T2bJYUz-NiY
Finefeather
12th July 2015, 18:07
I was just reading some of the fascinating dialogue here between some of our highly intelligent members, and I was wondering Ray where you're getting your information. You seem quite certain of yourself...not in an arrogant way or anything, just certain...and it's made me curious.
I only ask because I'm familiar with Omni's background - he's written of it quite extensively. And I'm familiar with some of Jake's experiences. It gives me a point of relativity from which to operate in a way. I'd certainly be interested in some of your backround and experiences. Your ideas are very interesting and I'd love to know how some of them originated.
Thanks.
Hi bruno
It is not for me to tell you who I am because it would be a little like writing my own CV...besides there are so many who just love to be their dark selves and attempt to attack... But I can give you a short idea.
When I was 27 I had an experience which activated my memory of past knowledge.
Over the next number of years I was retrained in out of body work of which most of my time was spent in the mental world and I was lead to certain writings on this plane which helped me remember a large amount of my knowledge stored in my causal envelope. I spend some time in a Buddhist retreat centre to refine my thinking in order to understand the knowledge from my new perspective in this century.
I am part of a group of servers who agreed to return here to try to give out the true knowledge which Pythagorus brought during his time on this plane.
Pythagorus is a non human who came prior to Christ. ..also a non human to attempt a reintroduction of the truth about reality.
Today this knowledge...which is the only knowledge approved by the planetary hierarchy. ..is found in the Hylozoics writings...which is based on the true esoterics...which is freely available to those who feel they might understand it...in lea of the fact that humans have been so completely indoctrinated with fiction from writings inspired by the dark brothers in this planet.
I am an aspirant on the path of consciousness development in the causal world which is one world higher than the mental world.
The rest I cannot make public, and thank you for your interest.
Generally and certainly I am a brother to all and my sole intention is to serve and promote unity and unconditional love.
Take care
Ray
Flash
12th July 2015, 19:26
I concur, Ray shouldn't leave. Disagreements happen sometimes and that's okay.
Definitely, nor Ray, nor Omni (ok ok this is his thread), should leave.
I do think that this discussion on this thread is in fact extremely important and I thank Omni for bringing it up.
It is in a way a discussion between transhumanism proponents or technology proponents and carbon based development proponents (human development, a more or less natural way, where technologies are used only as a transient help, not as a permanent structure within the carbon based beings).
We can also see, reading the thread, the different universe (cosmos) conception of two different and more approaches. I do think that we could come back to this thread in 10 years and still discover new meanings, it would still make us go further.
All those posting here are of upmost value.
And this discussion is absolutely necessary. Here are the kind of perceptions that will make our world slide one way or the other. This is why is lying down most of our true choices. Those we have to make in the coming two or three years.
Please, go on.
I thank all those who participated up to now, and those who will later.
---------------------
Now, Omni, I do see or think that you cannot for the moment open up to Ray's comment - why? I am not sure. But please, bare with him and us, it is impossible that you will not see at some point.
With all my affection and love
Flash
3(C)+me
12th July 2015, 20:06
I will say a few things that for me are quite obvious concerning this tread.
I do know Omni has many threads and followers that will support him no matter what he does, I understand this.
From where I am sitting Omni has repeatedly stressed that his argument is right. Higher frequencies are not something we should be striving for because as he says electronic manipulation can reach everyone everywhere and there is nothing we can do about it. His implications: so why try.
Other people have come on and had a different views and Omni will insist they are attempting to harm him for various reasons that have nothing to do with the argument at hand. He goes right back to his reset position, ignores other's argument but will insist they are belittling him.
He said previously he is under attack and is not sleeping and has not read others posts correctly. I wonder if he is electronically programed to start this post for reasons' other than for feedback. He reminds me of a phase that goes like this "there is no use arguing with a drunk" this is the feeling I get from reading his replies. But what is Omni drunk on?
Is he being electronically manipulated?
Does he feel driven to write these replies that just go round and around like a closed loop?
(if I am the only person who has thought this while reading this thread I will be very very surprised).
Ok please do not come at me with guns firing (why this thread has gone so emotional I have no idea) I am just bringing this up for further discussion.
Peace be with you brothers and sisters.
Cristian
12th July 2015, 20:07
Finefeather was/is always special. He always makes me shut up. Often there is nothing to add below his posts , below his knowledge and wisdom . As much as I like to feel special...sometimes is best to shut up.
Thanks Ray...for the weird feeling and induced silence.
Aspen
12th July 2015, 21:13
S9RqyEwpRBs tangential to the flow but I was wondering if Omni and Finefeathers and the others that have participated in this thread would agree with the basic information in this video about the brainwaves. It definitely explains how alpha and theta are better for healing and is a slower frequency.
I think that the danger is in subjecting oneself to electronic brain entrainment. Natures frequencies have subtle nuances in them that the electronic likely lacks. Also how can you trust that the frequencies for meditation on youtube are actually what they say they are? Beware!
Also there seems to be a lack of consensus on the web about where the cut offs are for alpha beta and theta. Hmmm? The video below seems to say that the 7.83 brain wave frequency (Schumann also) falls into the Theta range. If anyone could point us in the direction of solid information on human brain waves and their cut offs. . .emvqA-_7BGM
I like how this guy explains that all of the frequencies are going on all of the time, and that in assessing human brain waves we are assessing which ones predominate.
I found it strange to that just when I wanted to post this information the server went down. But it was only for a moment, I guess. . . .
Omni
12th July 2015, 21:31
An example of the "sweet spots" in frequency I'm talking about in audio form(I made this morning after cleansing myself of the negative energy of this thread):
https://omnisense.bandcamp.com/album/cryptoverse
#7 a remix i did of Philosophy of Sound/KOshowKO's dubby song that turned into my favorite song of any artist.
The last 3 minutes of #7 at the link is what I'm talking about....should be listened to with decent speakers that have bass that aren't too EQ'd in any direction. or headphones for maximum effect. Clearly slower vibrations can be better than higher ones if consciousness is anything like sound. Which the universe does tend to be structured in metaphors and maths that are similar to each other(or the same).... Knowing consciousness and sound rather well I can say they appear to be designed side by side. I do not believe in a conscious creator but either way sound and consciousness are closely linked IMO.
Maybe some will not like the song linked, it is pretty intense electronica, but its my favorite song ever. And it has very little high frequency. I transpose my experiences into music... If I was mentally unsound from all the torture I probably would not be able to make comprehensible music...
Agape
12th July 2015, 21:39
I will say a few things that for me are quite obvious concerning this tread.
I do know Omni has many threads and followers that will support him no matter what he does, I understand this.
From where I am sitting Omni has repeatedly stressed that his argument is right. Higher frequencies are not something we should be striving for because as he says electronic manipulation can reach everyone everywhere and there is nothing we can do about it. His implications: so why try.
Other people have come on and had a different views and Omni will insist they are attempting to harm him for various reasons that have nothing to do with the argument at hand. He goes right back to his reset position, ignores other's argument but will insist they are belittling him.
He said previously he is under attack and is not sleeping and has not read others posts correctly. I wonder if he is electronically programed to start this post for reasons' other than for feedback. He reminds me of a phase that goes like this "there is no use arguing with a drunk" this is the feeling I get from reading his replies. But what is Omni drunk on?
Is he being electronically manipulated?
Does he feel driven to write these replies that just go round and around like a closed loop?
Ok please do not come at me with guns firing (why this thread has gone so emotional I have no idea) I am just bringing this up for further discussion.
Peace be with you brothers and sisters.
Perhaps a little clarification from my side on what you're discussing here would help ,
I will give it a try though, I've seen people believing various curious fictional possibilities here ( even with respect to Omniverse ) so , for clarity sake , I may only give it a try .
From what I've seen and experienced on this Earth , EM fields in use currently are still very crude , unrefined where it comes to biological interface but there's much work going on , in medical fields for example ,
both diagnostics and therapy to mention the more sensitive scales .
Some of you are probably familiar with how biofeedback devices work , and there are several types of them ,
reading your EEG , ECG , pulse wave , skin resistance , more parameters the better but none are sophisticated enough to surpass your own ability , the 'feedback' you receive is calculated basing on 'bio-pulse' your organism exhibits ,
the fluctuation of which turns to 3D curve in front of your eyes , for example , the wave you see is still based on collection of data points .
It's how any monitoring device of that sort works after all , contrary to what it seems it does not 'read your brainwaves' , it collects impulses and tries to re-draw linear ( or any other ) pattern based on that collection.
In reality of course, you ( Life ) are not collection of data points . That's a basic though huge difference between you and the computer ( one of differences ),
computing and any other electronic device so far , including the future 'quantum computing' , AI .. universally speaking .. has to be constructed/based on certain parameters agreed on , forming grid that is capable of reading binary code , 0s and 1s.
Why so , because any living intelligence building an AI aims to control the AI at the first place and enable communication that would be practically convertible to any unit , it has to have mathematical laws entwined to it .
In short, the way we communicate with any-thing , computerised intelligence included is through mathematical laws in 'our head' ,
now who put those laws to your head ? No one . Science or maths , for that sake are not creating physical laws , it can merely uncover , isolate , replicate some of those .. maybe billions upon billions of laws running this Universe and beyond .
The same subtle laws are reflected , condensed in what we jointly call 'living intelligence' or form of Life .
Even if you are not taught by anyone but spend considerable amount of time contemplating nature of Space and using your natural thinking capacity you can well create anything from great works of philosophy , art , mathematical or cosmological systems or whole religions ,
you alone , reflecting on the Space your observe .
In these hectic times and civilisation based on constant feed and demand for feed , I fear that not many people ever take the chance to discover that ,
themselves fully .
No matter what is affecting you the Universal laws are always bigger . No matter what kind of AI you build there's always more intelligence left in you as its creator .
Life is also sensitive and vulnerable beyond measure , at the same time it's unbelievably resilient, if it was not we would not be here since long ago ,
on this raw planet .
Of ET technologies .. each are evolved to serve particular purpose , on particular frequency ( or time scale ) . No one in the Universe has the time and interest to watch over a planet all the time , to the minutest detail and ruin your life .
Your experience may differ but you should still stick to your logical, healthy reasoning and use other examples in your real life to be able to judge yourself correctly .
Any journey of self-discovery starts not with 'I know now' but rather with 'I don't know' . If you can't accept any form of self-doubt you can't experience the rest either , you can't empathise and can't find more than what you're currently holding to.
The grip itself shows /is fear . It's more than common that people hold to their convictions for very long time if not for life times ,
simply because they fear they'd 'lose themselves' if they let go .
It's how some people fear their meditation experience as well ...
So for example , you may experience ETs ( or your mother , girlfriend , anybody for that sake ) influencing - controlling you all the time .
They're probably not , I mean , hardly so . But what happens is that happen to impose strong enough 'control impulse' on you at points you won't forget for long
and so you feel their presence and responses with you at all times .
It's basically what happens , as living intelligence you're a fluid .. communication , interaction, happens through points and dots . You're always left with huge advantage , one advantage you have is an ability to compute and act out of the 'dots' , the control pattern imposed on you .
Another one is that you can basically recalculate and discard, or disregard the pattern if it's of no convenience .
You are free to forget the communication totally if you make point strong enough with yourself that will surpass the 'intelligence' offered to you.
The only reason you respond the communication patterns offered is because it presents you with evolutionary advantage .
Even that is a temporary judgement , organic judgement however . When I use terms like judgement I don't mean that you're producing such on conscious level .
Decision making happens on several levels in every living organism , your biological intelligence foremost is responsible for some your 'decisions' .
And when I say such are temporary .. it's exactly because the same biological intelligence tests its interactions over time and re-valuates , periodically , what's the best course of action for its survival and well being .
Higher vibrations : as human being , you are bound to operate under circumstances within certain vibrational range that is extendable and individual as well ..
observe, most objects in this world are made to suit your tastes , human tastes . Whatever goes too low or above your accustomed frequency range it appears either repulsive , non-attractive or 'weird' to you .
The same goes for others and perhaps all around the Universe . Your highs may be my lows , and vice versa .
On personal note , I know millions of humans working with computers and other electronics without it would disturb them a lot . To me , as biological entity , the same EM fields cause lots of fatigue and headaches , in short time .
That's how I either focus sharp and fast , on what I do on computer and limit the exposure or I relax , just as about anyone else but do very little ..
on the other hand , and that's also well tried personal experience compared to others in real life ,
I can hold on certain 'higher frequencies' without harm for considerably longer time than most people find even viable simply because I'm accustomed to ( biologically ) to another frequency range .
There's a long reasoning i better won't go to now ..
Peace to all
:angel:
Finefeather
13th July 2015, 08:30
Teaching that higher frequencies are better is a very general and rough way of twisting and lying about a complicated topic. This is my personal take on it coming from the trauma therapy point of view (and Bach Flower practitioner point of view). Generally I see people with PTSD and in almost every instance I am encouraging people to intentionally calm down, slow down, be gentle with themselves. It is only when we are calm and feeling emotionally safe that we can release residual fear that is stored in us. A calm state is alpha or theta and means lowering the frequency of our brain waves. It also leads to clearer and more rational thinking, creativity. I do agree that using natural means of slightly raising our frequency (such as eating living foods, spending time with nature, spending time with other people who are healthy, exercising, engaging in creative pursuits) are a safe way to increase frequency a bit and becoming coherent energetically.
Hi Aspen
You are quite right with your findings and experience about higher or lower frequencies in the human field you are in...but there is a very big difference between what you are presenting and what Omniverse is claiming.
The human body is an object in a consciousness world...the physical...which has it's optimum frequencies which are right for it to operate in, higher frequencies are not good simply because the body organs cannot survive in frequencies outside those which are optimum for them.
Other physical objects might require lower frequencies, like lead... which when heated easily melts...and other's much higher frequencies, like steam which condenses when cooled.
Physical world Consciousness is what we all have in this physical world... and within this world there are manifested objects like minerals, plants and animals and humans...each of these different manifestations have their optimum frequency levels in which they best perform and are capable of surviving in.
Frequency levels in our physical world consciousness, ranges from a higher to a lower...and manifestation is optimum within certain frequency ranges for different objects...organic or inorganic.
You cannot talk about consciousness, and what frequencies are good or bad for us in the physical word in the same breath...they are two different concepts.
Consciousness is the ability to be aware or to be able to perceive in a certain frequency band or spectrum...and the higher it is the more conscious we become.
In the physical world this spectrum ranges for humans from very low to very high depending on which sense we use...this allows us to operate and live in a physical world.
When we operate in a higher world...like the emotional/'astral or the mental world things are all at a much higher frequency and our goal is to grow or refine our consciousness in order to be able to perceive in these higher frequencies.
When you are in the emotional/'astral' or in the mental world you have no physical body and yet we are able to perceive in these worlds...but there are different rules there, which are far different to those in this very much lower physical world from a frequency point of view.
Take care
Ray
¤=[Post Update]=¤
but I was wondering if Omni and Finefeathers and the others that have participated in this thread would agree with the basic information in this video about the brainwaves. It definitely explains how alpha and theta are better for healing and is a slower frequency.
Thanks Aspen
I agree with this completely as I have explained in my above post.
Finefeather
13th July 2015, 08:54
An example of the "sweet spots" in frequency I'm talking about in audio form(I made this morning after cleansing myself of the negative energy of this thread):
https://omnisense.bandcamp.com/album/cryptoverse
#7 a remix i did of Philosophy of Sound/KOshowKO's dubby song that turned into my favorite song of any artist.
The last 3 minutes of #7 at the link is what I'm talking about....should be listened to with decent speakers that have bass that aren't too EQ'd in any direction. or headphones for maximum effect. Clearly slower vibrations can be better than higher ones if consciousness is anything like sound. Which the universe does tend to be structured in metaphors and maths that are similar to each other(or the same).... Knowing consciousness and sound rather well I can say they appear to be designed side by side. I do not believe in a conscious creator but either way sound and consciousness are closely linked IMO.
Maybe some will not like the song linked, it is pretty intense electronica, but its my favorite song ever. And it has very little high frequency. I transpose my experiences into music... If I was mentally unsound from all the torture I probably would not be able to make comprehensible music...
Hi Omniverse
As explained in my post to Aspen...and as I tried to explain in a previous post...which you have not read...or did not want to respond to... you are trying to compare consciousness with our perception and preferences in the physical world.
I am well aware what music may instill in us... and that some will like one song or another... or one key or another...
I took music lessons and was playing music when I was in junior school...we always had musical instruments in our house...I was a profession musician for many years after college and played keyboard instruments like the B3 Hammond organ, Moog Synthesizer and electric pianos of all shapes and sizes.
We were the resident band at many venues and often had to accompany various casual artists and they all had their preferred register and key in which they sang or played.
So you cannot compare this with consciousness they are not the same concept...what you are pointing out is a preference and it is subjective to each person.
Take care
Ray
Agape
13th July 2015, 09:43
Finefeather ..and all ,
to my knowledge and practical experience , it's the 'intention' that needs to be purified before any sort of vibration/consciousness yoga ( use terms like work or practice ) starts .
As you probably know there's an ancient discipline of Nada Yoga ( Nada = Sound in Sanskrit ) among all other kinds of Yogas that works exactly with pure tones , chakras , dimensions and states of consciousness .
My first Yoga teacher actually practised and taught this kind of Yoga , her name was Nada Shakti and she lived somewhere between Hawaii , California and India but travelled worldwide and sang beautifully ,
both pure tones and mantras and vedic and other religious chants . She was not to talking as much as to real practice and angel like being with great inner powers .
The 'pure tone' practice is more powerful in my opinion than even chanting ( though such can be very powerful if/when done correctly ) or any other kind of music ,
in India many other kinds of musical yogas were based on this Nada Yoga .
Musical instruments played in certain way are famous in inducing states of consciousness , Indian ragas and Sitar in particular are famous for this ability .
There are stories of musicians ( in all cultures , if you recall Orpheus and his harp and so on ) who could move heavens and earth by their music .
But then again, I say both intention and the musical ability has to be purified .
From my experience , live music and real time practice is always more powerful in this respect than anything played from tape though , the later has its fixed place in todays peoples lives ,
such music is seldom used/played with full consciousness and care . Tones, tunes , music you produce from your own heart ,
it's when your consciousness 'makes music' tends to be the most liberating and beautiful experience .
Once you start meditating on consciousness ( actually, instead of 'outer phenomena' ) you may start hearing 'inner sounds' , on the yoga path , natural 'hum' , vibration of space ,
it changes from one environment to another .
If there's intrusion to your vibrational field you probably recognise it immediately as well .
I get easily overwhelmed nowadays by any auditory input , I was this way as kid as well .. so I never voluntarily listened to music until much later , I preferred spoken word .
Here in the city vibrations 'in the air' can feel like constant buzz . Once I'm out of the 'zone' it feels like huge relief to me.
Few days ago I tried new Quantum/iNfinity Application on my iPad , one of those that experiment with frequency healing and tonal feedback.
I can imagine it works with most 'dense' human beings simply because they can absorb the spectrum easily, without harm .
I tried this on me , with diligence so to say ... can't say I'd approve of the results .
Silent spaces are one of the best , mountain tops for example ..
:sun:
Baby Steps
13th July 2015, 11:20
Dear all,
speaking as a learner and audience member in this excellent thread I would like to thank you and send you my love for your participation.
These powerful and considered but diverse views from such great minds have the potential to reach a synthesis that can be healing and a great leap forward!
Meanwhile, somewhere deeper in the murky waters I am just working on my vibration:
How much of my time do I spend in different states?
- Misery/despair/disempowerment/hatred/fear
- Ego/showing off
- Intellectually self indulgent fripperies & distractions
-Giving/loving/helping/nurturing/healing
-Ecstatic state
So I am concentrating on the process of minimising the former ones & maximising the latter ones
We all do this as we 'grow up'
For avoidance of doubt, THE UNIVERSE PROVIDES TOOLS FOR EVERYBODY to progress, JUST ASK!!
Just that knowing is so powerful
The higher states are not connected to the outer conditions one finds oneself in
Love to all
Finefeather
13th July 2015, 13:39
Knowing consciousness and sound rather well I can say they appear to be designed side by side. I do not believe in a conscious creator but either way sound and consciousness are closely linked IMO.
I have just pulled this statement out separately to address this.
Of course you are right...sound(energy) and consciousness are closely linked...they are in fact 2 aspects of the trinity of life...the other being matter...everything is connected in some way...and not one can exist without the other...BUT the way you are presenting it, is not in accordance with logic.
Your mind is very active and you are thinking...and that makes you far more advanced than a lot of people out there, who care only to use their life in less fruitful ways.
A lot of people write before they know. They have 'light-bulb' moments and believe they must publish this to the world when it is only just a small step in their growth to a greater truth.
I have always maintained that we should keep a record of our growth by writing down what we think we know about a subject of life which interests us...and without fail in 10 years time we will realise how we have grown when we now present a new idea from what we thought 10 years ago.
Humans cannot know what life is all about in one life...it takes 10s of thousands of lives to even get to the point where we become interested in what it is all about...of course there are many difference in this period...it's up to each of us to work on this...but there is no rush and there is no pressure...only the beauty that awaits us in higher worlds.
All of those on this forum who have turned their interests towards the meaning of life have been working on this for ages...it is not just a sudden fad thing that comes over us by chance.
We can see consciousness growth all around us...there are so many people at so many different stages of development.
The reason why we have so much fiction around in the name of truth is simply because our egos tell us that we have made it to the top of the mountain and so we write things which are far from reality...and we don't even know it because we don't even know what we don't know.
So in my view you might know sound 'rather well' but you do not fully understand consciousness yet…and that might be why you are presenting your view as you are...take some time to think about what is been presented...you might gain by it...I am not here to silence you...I am here to walk in harmony with you.
You must know that I have no problem with other views...we are all at some stage of our growth and we all have things to learn...and as I said many times I am more ignorant today than I was yesterday, and more than most people, because the more I learn about reality, the more I realise just how little I know...there are things we don't even know that we don't know.
It would be a task too big to explain fully what consciousness is and how it relates to energy and matter and the mystery is that it takes consciousness to understand what consciousness is...and this can only come from many life times of experience...obedience to the laws of nature and live...and right attitude.
All I can say now...and it is for each of us to experience this...is that consciousness is only possible because there is something to be conscious about...if there was nothing materialised by matter and energy...and there is not one thing which is not...consciousness would not be possible.
Now I know that there are those Indian gurus and philosophers out there who claim that there is a state called formless or matter-less and that everything is consciousness...but that is just because they have not reached very high levels of consciousness where we learn and experienced that matter is finer than we believe.
You cannot learn consciousness you have to refine your Self and it's envelopes to become more conscious...and you can do this in various ways...but they all involve doing what is right...one of these methods was given to us by Buddha in the Noble Eightfold Path...they are:
Right view
Right intention
Right speech
Right action
Right livelihood
Right effort
Right mindfulness
Right concentration.
Notice it says nothing about having to go out of body...achieving nirvana...or any other mystical practice.
Every single bit of suffering in this planet...through murders, rape, abduction, torture, etc etc is a result of nothing else but bad human actions...these actions which we call 'evil' are what our dark brothers are into...simply because they do not know any better and even those who know it and still do it...are merely blind to what life is about...they need our love more than ever.
Life is about humans seeking unity and brotherhood with one another and this can only come if we allow each his own space and practice unconditional love.
Take care
Ray
sunpaw
13th July 2015, 17:27
I enjoyed the article.
I thought about the topic before frequently and found my thoughts in there.
The technological angle regarding the topic is somewhat new to me. In the article it got a personal element - which is rather new to me. Before that I only came across scientific approaches.
I also think because of the personal element (as in forum member, and not 'far away in some kind of experiment which is partially published') its new to find a way 'to handle it' (for me).
However I found it interesting.
Aspen
14th July 2015, 18:14
I find the topic highly fascinating and would like to learn more about it. Presently I feel quite confused. I am thinking it is mostly due to a lack of knowledge on the subject. One of the questions that I feel most confused about is:
1. Is higher frequency (and vibration) the same thing as higher consciousness?
It seems to me that maybe we need to define our terms. Are we comparing apples to oranges? In describing brain waves we are staying within the physical electromagnetic spectrum. Is consciousness outside of the known electromagnetic spectrum?
I read through most of the posts on this thread today and Finefeather and Agape both made statements that seem to imply that higher consciousness is of the highest frequencies. But maybe I am misunderstanding this. Some of the statements also seem to indicate that the 3 D reality that most humans are presently living in is at a certain frequency range, and that we generally lack awareness of beings living outside of our frequency range.
However, if this is true then why is it that when humans meditate and engage in practices where they are trying to increase their consciousness, they engage in practices that lower their brainwave frequencies? For example meditation takes humans into predominantly the alpha, theta and even delta range of brain frequencies. If their brain waves are going lower, how does it help their consciousness to go higher????? I know this is a complex topic, but any further elucidation would be helpful.
I do tend to agree with Omniverse, that technology is likely being used to create entrainment of human brain patterns in an attempt to control masses of the population. I know also, that many people like my son love the electronically produced music and have been helped by it. I know it has helped my son to cope with his anxiety. It calms him down. But how do we use this technology and knowledge about electronics wisely? How do we guard ourselves against abuse of frequency and vibration being used to manipulate us?
From what I have learned so far on the topic of raising ones consciousness it seems likely that we use lower frequencies to entrain to the earth, to remain grounded calm and alert in order to think and act effectively in the three D world. So to move into higher consciousness do we go lower first in order to release any blockages or energy traps that we have attached ourselves to and then move into a higher state of vibration after we clear ourselves (similar to detoxing our bodies by eating vegetarian and drinking clean water). Or are consciousness and frequency different things altogether.
If they are different subjects then maybe it would be easy to fool people and create false New Age religion by teaching the raising of frequency and vibration as being good. We can easily be deceived in this area since our humans senses only pick up and read a very narrow range of frequencies.
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Have our belief systems been intentionally engineered to prevent us from understanding the difference between consciousness and frequency? Can we all develop this power of our consiousness? Did humans always have abilities that have remained dormant such as telepathy, remote viewing etc. ?
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Finefeather
14th July 2015, 22:10
1. Is higher frequency (and vibration) the same thing as higher consciousness?
Hi Aspen
I am going to answer all of the sections in your post but I am a little busy right now and so will just do this first one for now...I will do the others in the next day on.
It is important that you treat everything I say as a hypothesis for now. If it makes sense to you then all is well and it would seem that you just needed a reminder...but if it is foreign to you, or if you find it incompatible with your current thinking then just consider it for now.
Humans have been indoctrinated by fiction for around 20 000 years since the dark brothers forced their way into leadership positions and as a result truth is difficult to accept because it is so far from what has been accepted as truth today.
Virtually 95% of everything humans think is truth today is in fact fiction and lies created by forces which are powerful and convincing to say the least...this situation is been dealt with by the introduction and incarnation of millions of servers who go by the name of "The new group of world servers"...they do not know who they are but you can see them in action every day around the world...in protests and all sort of anti government and anti corrupt establishments and organisation all over the world.
Lets get to your first question: "Is higher frequency (and vibration) the same thing as higher consciousness?"
I need to give you some background here first.
The answer is yes. Just to get one thing out of the way... all vibrations have a frequency which we designate as Hertz, or cycles per second...so a higher vibration is a higher frequency.
This Cosmos has 49 atomic levels...and I am not going into that now...each of these atomic levels are known as worlds...each of these worlds have a frequency range in which they manifest in...and yes they do merge into each other and there are no walls in between them :) these levels are ALL in the same space and time as the physical world...their boundaries are determined by molecular density.
The first level is the highest and it is the first because everything started there in a primordial state and everything will end there in a state of total consciousness of the whole Cosmos...in other words we will have come full circle at the end of our consciousness growth in this Cosmos.
Everything that exists in this Cosmos is a primordial atom or monad... and only primordial atoms/monads exist in this Cosmos in various degrees and states of consciousness.
Humans of today moved from a primordial state down the chain of atomic worlds in a process called involution where on their way down they formed...in their very early stages part of the very material objects we see around us now on this physical plane.
Of course they were not humans then yet...I am just addressing this towards the current humans...there have been many humans before us and there will be many more after us...we did not start off as humans and we will not end as humans.
When humans reached the mineral state in the 49th atomic world...which is the physical world we are in now...they began their evolutionary cycle.
So Involution is down towards denser states and evolution is up to higher states.
Humans of today have evolved from the mineral kingdom... through the plant kingdom... through the animal kingdom...as a group soul...and now as humans in the human kingdom they are finally completely individual and their task is to become self aware and to do this they must grow in consciousness so they can advance or ascend to the next kingdom of non humans known as Essential Selves.
So can you see the vast range in which the physical world operates?...from minerals to humans.
This entire range of frequencies in the physical world is known as physical consciousness.
But humans are more advanced than just physical consciousness...humans have emotional consciousness which is atomic world no 48...and mental consciousness which is atomic world no 47.
The end goal is to return to atomic level no 1 which is 46 levels of consciousness to go.
Each of these atomic worlds have a frequency range in which they manifest and to be able to perceive these higher level of consciousness we need to refine our Selves...we need to increase our frequency levels...but what increases?...in humans it is the physical(etheric) 49, the Emotional 48, and the Mental 47 consciousness which needs refining.
Just to give you a rough idea of the difference between the physical level molecular density and the next one up which is level 48 or also known as the emotional world...or it has also been called the 'astral' world...
Physical world molecular density starts at 281474976710656 times that of the primordial or highest level...and the emotional world molecular density starts at 140737488355328 times that of the primordial or highest level.
Thus the physical world's highest frequency is only half that of the emotional worlds highest level and here is the crux of the stunning truth...
Humans have not yet even come close to the physical world's real atomic level...they have only got to the 4th level or plasma level which is still 3 levels away from the real physical level atom.
Now if you consider what the frequency is of what humans call molecules...from Wiki..."and the typical frequencies of molecular vibrations range from less than 10^12 to approximately 10^14 Hz." that's 10 with 12 zeros!
10 000 000 000 000 = 10 000 GHz
So our molecules are vibrating at 10 000GHz. that's much higher than microwave and all radio frequencies we have invented up to now...?
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 12:07
However, if this is true then why is it that when humans meditate and engage in practices where they are trying to increase their consciousness, they engage in practices that lower their brainwave frequencies? For example meditation takes humans into predominantly the alpha, theta and even delta range of brain frequencies. If their brain waves are going lower, how does it help their consciousness to go higher????? I know this is a complex topic, but any further elucidation would be helpful.
Well you are right about this but don't forget that you are looking at brain waves which are lowering... and this is just an effect of the meditation… it is not the lowering which created the meditative state...it is the meditative state that effects the brain waves and lowers them.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 12:16
However, if this is true then why is it that when humans meditate and engage in practices where they are trying to increase their consciousness, they engage in practices that lower their brainwave frequencies? For example meditation takes humans into predominantly the alpha, theta and even delta range of brain frequencies. If their brain waves are going lower, how does it help their consciousness to go higher????? I know this is a complex topic, but any further elucidation would be helpful.
Well you are right about this but don't forget that you are looking at brain waves which are lowering... and this is just an effect of the meditation… it is not the lowering which created the meditative state...it is the meditative state that effects the brain waves and lowers them.
That does not answer the question.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 12:49
However, if this is true then why is it that when humans meditate and engage in practices where they are trying to increase their consciousness, they engage in practices that lower their brainwave frequencies? For example meditation takes humans into predominantly the alpha, theta and even delta range of brain frequencies. If their brain waves are going lower, how does it help their consciousness to go higher????? I know this is a complex topic, but any further elucidation would be helpful.
Well you are right about this but don't forget that you are looking at brain waves which are lowering... and this is just an effect of the meditation… it is not the lowering which created the meditative state...it is the meditative state that effects the brain waves and lowers them.
That does not answer the question.
Well it does...you are supposed to think a little yourself :)
If the meditative state causes the lowering of the brain waves then what could be taking place?
The consciousness has moved from the lower physical...and is no longer centered in the physical etheric brain...hence the lowering of activity of the brain waves... to a higher level...whatever that might be, based on the individual's growth.
The brain waves will only go so low...unless death has occurred...consciousness can only go so high for each individual...depending on our consciousness growth.
So the question " If their brain waves are going lower, how does it help their consciousness to go higher?????" actually makes no sense at all.
The level of the brain waves is not an indication of how high consciousness is.
Brain waves lower when we sleep or go out of body because the Self has moved out of the body.
It.s like putting your car on idle/standby while you go shopping
Hope that sound better to you :)
Ray
Selkie
15th July 2015, 13:59
...It.s like putting your car on idle/standby while you go shopping
http://betabrainwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/brain-waves.gif
Fast waves are for dealing with the everyday world, or danger situations, as you can see from the chart. Slower waves are for rest and repair, etc.
So I would think that slower waves, whether during sleep or meditation, are when consciousness expands, rather than rises (or raises). That expansion is what lets us go "out-of-body" and have all kinds of "mystical" experiences, gives us cosmic consciousness, etc. The expansion would feel like consciousness is "rising", but it is actually expanding.
http://themindunleashed.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/braib-wavees.png
So it would not be a matter of "higher" versus "lower" consciousness, but of expanded, or broadened consciousness versus contracted, or narrowed or concentrated consciousness. When brain waves are slow, consciousness is expanded and when they are fast, it is contracted or concentrated.
And so I think that is the answer to Aspen's question, which I think was very astute.
p.s. Just as an aside, and not to take the thread off topic into a discussion about drugs, LSD and similar drugs have a consciousness-expanding effect. I have been reading Colin Wilson, and he says that LSD and similar drugs put the left brain to sleep, which allows consciousness to expand because the right brain takes over. I would bet that meditation does something similar.
http://www.hermes-press.com/topbrain.jpg
Selkie
15th July 2015, 14:14
Btw, in reply to the OP, no, "higher" vibration (expanded consciousness) is not necessarily better.
Consciousness is just a brain function like memory, not a miracle cure-all. Meditation does not solve many problems on its own. Meditation gives us needed relaxation by making us forget the very real problems we are all born with. Beyond a certain modest level, enlargement of consciousness has no functional benefit whatsoever. People take a very wrong turn when they equate expanded consciousnesses with expanded wisdom and virtue. History proves superconsciousness often leads to self-deception and delusions of grandeur.
Cosmic consciousness adds emphasis and ecstasy to life, but it does not change the final outcome of our lives, and it does not help feed, clothe, and shelter the human race. There is no other "spiritual" world for us to escape to. We are all here together sharing this ONE WORLD, which is formed by living cells and time-energy-matter-space, not by souls, reincarnation, and karma. Meditation is an absolutely wonderful and spectacular brain phenomena, but we should not oversell it or we create the curses of religion, cults, and "belief systems" based on ignorance and wishful thinking.
http://meditation-handbook.50webs.com/osho2.html
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 14:51
Fast waves are for dealing with the everyday world, or danger situations, as you can see from the chart. Slower waves are for rest and repair, etc.
I could agreed with that up to a point...body repair is largely an automated process of the organic life and takes place even if we are running a marathon...or singing a song.
So I would think that slower waves, whether during sleep or meditation, are when consciousness expands, rather than rises (or raises). That expansion is what lets us go "out-of-body" and have all kinds of "mystical" experiences, gives us cosmic consciousness, etc. The expansion would feel like consciousness is "rising", but it is actually expanding.
Well yes...I agree with you...but expansion of consciousness means raising the consciousness level...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
So it would not be a matter of "higher" versus "lower" consciousness, but of expanded, or broadened consciousness versus contracted, or narrowed or concentrated consciousness. When brain waves are slow, consciousness is expanded and when they are fast, it is contracted or concentrated.
Well yes you are right...up to the point you started talking about brainwaves...and once again you are just saying the same thing. When we expand our consciousness we expand it into higher realms of consciousness or worlds.
And you never understood my post...or did some meditation on it. :(
In actual fact brainwaves do not have to be slow for consciousness to expand because someone who has naturally higher consciousness can be more highly conscious than another...even in the normal state of physical consciousness AND brain wave activity.
The slowing down of brainwaves in the process is because the Self is moving out of the physical consciousness and into the level of higher consciousness...not the other way around...brainwaves do not first slow down then we expand our consciousness.
Brainwave activity is an effect of consciousness expression not a cause of higher consciousness.
We are not the brain.
p.s. Just as an aside, and not to take the thread off topic into a discussion about drugs, LSD and similar drugs have a consciousness-expanding effect. I have been reading Colin Wilson, and he says that LSD and similar drugs put the left brain to sleep, which allows consciousness to expand because the right brain takes over. I would bet that meditation does something similar.
I would put money on that :)
In my experience with LSD and morphine and some other drugs I found that they move or expand or raise our consciousness to the emotional/'astral' consciousness level...and when we are in this state we create all sorts of illusions and experiences which are present in our minds...some can be scary and some mystical depending on your state of mind before you took them.
Take care Silkie
Ray
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 14:55
Consciousness is just a brain function like memory, not a miracle cure-all.
We are not the brain. Consciousness is an aspect of the true Self and is a miracle cure.
Whoever wrote this is a physicalist and does not have much idea of the constitution of the monad/Self and it's envelopes of incarnation.
Aspen
15th July 2015, 14:58
Thank you Silkie and Finefeather for continuing the conversation. I agree with Silkie that simply stating that higher consciousness is higher vibration or frequency does not answer the question. If the consciousness goes somewhere else (that leads to a higher consciousness expansion or raising of consciousness) when the brain is in a lower frequency state such as theta or delta (sleep, meditation, OBE), then it seems to me that consciousness is something quite different than the electrical activity going on in our brain. If the Self, that is our consciousness, is going somewhere analogous to "shopping" while our brain is "parked in idle" in a lower vibrational state, then how can you say that Higher Consciousness equates to higher frequency and vibration? If you are saying the consciousness goes somewhere else, or leaves the body, then is that not proving the theory that consciousness is something quite different than the physical body? I wonder if Agape has something to say on this matter? I think she believes that consciousness IS connected to the biological entity. Or anyone else?
Perhaps we have to go lower (in vibreational state) in order to go higher perhaps perhaps the process of raising ones consciousness is complex. But I think that this is the crux of the matter. I think this is where the deception may lie, if there is a deception, in regards to the New Age movement. Perhaps there is a gross oversimplification that is going on here that can lead people into all kinds of errors of thinking? Overall, the message from the New Age thinking has consistently been that we need to be raising the vibration of the physical body in order to "ascend."
But is that really what is happening? And if so, how does it relate to keeping grounded, keeping to the Schumann frequency of earth (which is quite low) and practicing things like meditation and self soothing activities that lower the frequency of the brain? Perhaps it is more like Silkie has said, that our left brain goes into neutral and the right brain activities are the key to going "somewhere else."
I respect you Fine Feathers because you obviously have put a lot of study, and practise into your current system of thought and action, however I am not sure I can wrap my mind around the idea of the 49 different levels of evolution and devolution. I don't mean to sound unappreciative, I just don't want to put a lot of effort into another system of belief at this time in my life. The point about human molecules vibrating at a much faster rate than that of minerals is interesting though. I wonder if there are easily accessible sources of research to back that up?
Actually, since about 6 months ago I have been fascinated with the Bohdgaya Event and the implication of that with regards to human evolution and spiritual growth. Agape has introduced me to it and it won't leave my mind. Since the time of Eric von Daniken people have wondered if perhaps we were seeded here by other ET races. But what if it is true that human ancestors were a highly advanced race that accidentally landed on earth and then their spacecraft was so damaged that it couldn't leave? And what if these beings had evolved in a different solar system and on a planet that was much bigger than earth or more gaseous? According to the experiencer of this event,the beings who originally came to Earth were tall semi transparent beings with a kind of homogeneous plasma or energy body. This body would correspond to what Fine Feather is talking about on a molecular level, it was probably vibrating at a much higher frequency than we are now. Probably the Schumann type frequency on their home planet was quite different as well. The molecules in these bodies were somewhat analogous to water vapour that then collapsed and formed structures (such as water does when it goes into a frozen state) when these beings left the space ship. (According to the story of the Bohdgaya Event) These beings physically collapsed, were damaged on a molecular level and and were very traumatized by the event and forgot who they were. Ever since then, the theory goes, they have been gradually evolving back to the higher state that they were in. This would explain why other ET races that came here and found us became fascinated with the genetic possibilities???
Maybe the Earth frequency range is holding us back? We assume we evolved here, but what if that is not our original home? To me this makes more sense as a theory of human origins than the conventional mainstream theory of the Origin of the Species. I suppose it also relates to what Fine Feather was talking about in regards to devolution followed by evolution. I mean, the Austrailian Aborigines talk about the dreamtime and some of the ancestors becoming rocks or mountains. So maybe some of us went all the way back to becoming minerals.
Sorry for all the woo woo thinking and speculation to those who aren't into that kind of thing! However, I think having a clear understanding of how the invisible world of frequency and vibration relates to our health and wellbeing is of vital importance. And for those of us who do believe in the value of spirituality it is important to try to understand what the connection may be, if any, between the electric universe we live in and the moral values we attempt to live by.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 15:10
I just don't want to put a lot of effort into another system of belief at this time in my life.
Aspen
It's never too late to learn new things...
Most of what I know today I realised in the last 10 years of my life..
Anyway keep well
And much love to you and your son
Ray
Selkie
15th July 2015, 15:13
...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
You have to define your terms. When you say "raising" your "consciousness", are you referring to brain waves, or do you mean something more like "social consciousness", which would more accurately be called conscience? Because it is totally possible for someone to have a very expanded consciousness (brain waves) and yet have the morals (conscience) of a sewer rat.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 15:47
Consciousness is just a brain function like memory, not a miracle cure-all.
We are not the brain. Consciousness is an aspect of the true Self and is a miracle cure.
Whoever wrote this is a physicalist and does not have much idea of the constitution of the monad/Self and it's envelopes of incarnation.
Whoever wrote that was a realist who spend decades with various gurus who have expanded consciousness, and knows whereof he speaks.
There is no proof at all that the monad/self is not brain-based, based on experiences of expanded consciousness. I am not saying that it does not exist, just that there is simply no proof. There is no proof because no one has ever come back from the dead to tell us what, if anything, is out there.
p.s. I am not referring to near-death experiences. Near-death is not death. No one has ever come back (woken up in the same body) who was well and truly dead.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 16:02
...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
You have to define your terms. When you say "raising" your "consciousness", are you referring to brain waves, or do you mean something more like "social consciousness", which would more accurately be called conscience? Because it is totally possible for someone to have a very expanded consciousness (brain waves) and yet have the morals (conscience) of a sewer rat.
Consciousness, means being aware of yourself or the world and the worlds around you...note the many worlds.
Conscience, is a moral understanding, an inner feeling, of right and wrong. Your conscience would be that little angel on your shoulder, telling you the right thing to do (and to ignore the little devil on the other side). And morals are dependant on each persons view.
When we talk about consciousness in spiritual terms it is usually about our awareness in different...what some call realms/dimensions/planes...I call it worlds because there are beings living there.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 16:25
...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
You have to define your terms. When you say "raising" your "consciousness", are you referring to brain waves, or do you mean something more like "social consciousness", which would more accurately be called conscience? Because it is totally possible for someone to have a very expanded consciousness (brain waves) and yet have the morals (conscience) of a sewer rat.
Consciousness, means being aware of yourself or the world and the worlds around you...note the many worlds.
Conscience, is a moral understanding, an inner feeling, of right and wrong. Your conscience would be that little angel on your shoulder, telling you the right thing to do (and to ignore the little devil on the other side). And morals are dependant on each persons view.
When we talk about consciousness in spiritual terms it is usually about our awareness in different...what some call realms/dimensions/planes...I call it worlds because there are beings living there.
Ok, and thanks :)
So then, in answer to this,
...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
I would say that to use the term raising one's consciousness is a misnomer, because in those states to which you refer as raised consciousness, consciousness is actually lowered, just as Aspen pointed out.
So maybe the whole idea that it takes a raised consciousness to access those worlds
...what some call realms/dimensions/planes...I call it worlds because there are beings living there...
is incorrect. Since we access those realms through meditation, which actually lowers brain waves, and hence lowers consciousness, maybe we have been shooting ourselves in the foot. Maybe those realms exist on longer, slower vibrations, and not higher, faster ones at all.
addition It is like, the closer you get to stillness, the more you can see, and slow brain waves are closer to stillness than fast waves.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 16:32
Whoever wrote that was a realist who spend decades with various gurus who have expanded consciousness, and knows whereof he speaks.
There is no proof at all that the monad/self is not brain-based, based on experiences of expanded consciousness. I am not saying that it does not exist, just that there is simply no proof. There is no proof because no one has ever come back from the dead to tell us what, if anything, is out there.
p.s. I am not referring to near-death experiences. Near-death is not death. No one has ever come back (woken up in the same body) who was well and truly dead.
I am not going to judge anyone's integrity but I consider and judge what they write...because that is what they put out into the world, and it is that, that other's tend to believe blindly...especially if someone claims to be a guru...and to me after around 40 years of practice...my opinion stands.
I have read the writings of dozens of gurus and they all...without exception...have not yet reached levels of consciousness where they would find information regarding monads...because this is only found in the Causal world and they have only ever got as far as the higher emotional/'astral' worlds.
There are certain truths no one will be able to prove in the physical world...you can only prove them to yourself when you reach these worlds.
Everyone want proof...life is about finding our own truth and proving it to ourself...if we believe any guru or expert we are in trouble because we still will not know for sure until we prove it to ourself.
So proof in spiritual terms cannot be learnt from belief...it comes from personal experience.
Why would someone be able to come back from a near death experience and bring back anything more than they already know.
When you have a near death experience the best that will happen is that you will end up in one of the emotional/'astral' worlds and everything in those worlds can be as chaotic and ignorant as life in the physical.
3(C)+me
15th July 2015, 16:45
Suppose you have two people,
Person 1, not very aware of other processes around them. Goes to work, eats, sleeps and thinks this is all there is. Money is everything. Fully ensconsed into this illusion and never questions or is curious about the reality or life they are living in. Is not interested in other points of view. If you can't see it, it does not exist.
Person 2, aware of the field of existence apart of it's physicality. Money, not that important. Realizes he/she creates there own reality, is responsible about who and what he lets into his/her space because he is aware of highjackers. Understand that polarity is how this game is played here. Creates and holds himself responsible for his creations.
One is not better than the other, because for each person this is what they choose to experience and how choose to live.
These two individuals goes through the same brain waves everyday, delta, theta. they sleep (but their dreams are different not because of their brainwaves but because of their awareness of the field and how they interact with that field) and daydream, the brain goes through the same brain wave states, yet, their awareness or consciousness is at different levels and they interact with their environment in completely different ways, while awake, asleep or daydreaming.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 17:06
So then, in answer to this,
...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
I would say that to use the term raising one's consciousness is a misnomer, because in those states to which you refer as raised consciousness, consciousness is actually lowered, just as Aspen pointed out.
So maybe the whole idea that it takes a raised consciousness to access those worlds
...what some call realms/dimensions/planes...I call it worlds because there are beings living there...
is incorrect. Since we access those realms through meditation, which actually lowers brain waves, and hence lowers consciousness, maybe we have been shooting ourselves in the foot. Maybe those realms exist on longer, slower vibrations, and not higher, faster ones at all.
addition It is like, the closer you get to stillness, the more you can see, and slow brain waves are closer to stillness than fast waves.
Sorry I cannot follow your logic Silkie and you are not considering what I am saying in my posts about the brain...but I'll say it again...slightly differently...:)
The brain has nothing to do with consciousness...other than been a medium through which consciousness is realised...the 5 senses...when the Being/Self withdraws from the brain the brainwaves are less active until it is only the electric impulses which are a result of the brain as an organ. So it is not the brain that causes any higher consciousness no matter how low the brainwaves are...the brainwaves become lower because the real Being/Self has left the brain in a 'free' state...just like when we meditate...we move into higher realms...hopefully...and we no longer focus in the brain...so it slows down.
If I am the driver of my car...'I' being the real Self...and my car is the body...when I get in my car(body) and drive it the engine revs fast...but if I get out my car then it will just idle away waiting for me to return. :)
The car(body) has nothing to do with me knowing what I know(consciousness)...but it relies on me when I am inside it to be able to drive...it cannot drive unless I rev the engine(consciousness expression) :)
Anyway it seems as if we are unlikely to agree on this...so lets just pause...
Thanks for the chat...and keep well...
Ray
Selkie
15th July 2015, 17:07
...These two individuals goes through the same brain waves everyday, delta, theta. they sleep (but their dreams are different not because of their brainwaves but because of their awareness of the field and how they interact with that field) and daydream, the brain goes through the same brain wave states, yet, their awareness or consciousness is at different levels and they interact with their environment in completely different ways, while awake, asleep or daydreaming.
The whole problem revolves around assuming that just because someone can access mediational states or the delta state, or other unusual states of consciousness, that it means they automatically become a better person.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 17:19
...Brainwaves have nothing to do with consciousness...other than been a medium through which consciousness is realised...when the Being/Self withdraws from the brain the brainwaves are less active until it is only the electric impulses which are a result of the brain as an organ. So it is not the brain that causes any higher consciousness no matter how low the brainwaves are...the brainwaves become lower because the real Being/Self has left the brain in a 'free' state...just like when we meditate...we move into higher realms...hopefully...and we no longer focus in the brain...so it slows down.
But I do understand what you are saying, Ray. I really do. But I disagree with you because for the human being, brain waves have everything to do with consciousness. After all, we define death as brain-death...as being "flat-line"...in other words, as a lack of brain waves. The brain could not be more "free" than when it is flat-line, and yet, there is no glimmer of consciousness there, human or otherwise.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 17:32
Everything we do with our physical body is a result of our Self performing a consciousness expression.
A consciousness expression is a thought which we direct...using energy...for some body action.
We can do nothing with our body without expressing energy through it...and we do this by consciousness expression.
And every conscious body action is thought of before the body actually does what is thought.
Every thought that we express is a telepathic process and often our partner or even our pet knows what we are going to do before we even physically do it.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 17:36
...I think this is where the deception may lie, if there is a deception, in regards to the New Age movement. Perhaps there is a gross oversimplification that is going on here that can lead people into all kinds of errors of thinking? Overall, the message from the New Age thinking has consistently been that we need to be raising the vibration of the physical body in order to "ascend."
...And if so, how does it relate to keeping grounded, keeping to the Schumann frequency of earth (which is quite low) and practicing things like meditation and self soothing activities that lower the frequency of the brain?
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? What you are describing is a double-bind, when one is damned if one does, and damned if one doesn't.
addition I am not saying that I think the double-bind is deliberate. It could just be sloppy thinking on the part of New Age theorists. But in any case, it is a contradiction, and it causes a lot of trouble.
Aspen
15th July 2015, 17:39
Finefeather,
Does the telepathic process you describe have anything to do with the observer effect? In that case would it require thought processes that involve the brain?
Perhaps our thoughts arise from outside the brain? Perhaps the physical brain limits our thinking? Can the telepathic thoughts be measured? The aura can be sensed through electronic means. Humans are commonly excluded from scientific experiments because their presence interferes with the processes that are set in motion. This relates to the idea that "a watched pot never bold." Is this a sign of the consciousness that we all have? If so, does this consciousness even possess frequency and waves that can be measured?
LFSRTsLOiv0 In the first few minutes of this video it talks about how in the field of physics as far back as 1927 there was a theory proposed about how the minds of the researchers affected the experiments. At minute 3 in this video it talks about how "a spirit is not a mechanical force like gravity, electromagnetism, or the strong or the weak force - a spirit is consciousness." I wonder what others think about this assertion? I wonder if this concept fits in with the explanation that Finefeathers is giving about the link between frequency, vibration, wavelengths and consciousness. There does seem to be an effect of consciousness on mechanical processes,proved by the observer effect that is commonly accepted within physics.
But in regards to the OP and what Omniverse is saying, can there be an effect of frequency and vibration, especially those produced by electronics, and possibly Haarp, Cern and highly developed technologies we are not even aware of - on consciousness? Can these technologies be used to suppress or prevent the evolution/expansion/raising (don't know which word to use) of consciousness? Or is it all smoke and mirrors? Do they just want us to believe that it can be affected and really consciousness is beyond this?
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 17:53
But I do understand what you are saying, Ray. I really do. But I disagree with you because for the human being, brain waves have everything to do with consciousness. After all, we define death as brain-death...as being "flat-line"...in other words, as a lack of brain waves. The brain could not be more "free" than when it is flat-line, and yet, there is no glimmer of consciousness there, human or otherwise.
But Silkie what you are saying is not true...in the context in which we are discussing...yes consciousness from the doctors point of view ceases but that is only because we are addressing consciousness as if it is the body that is conscious...it is not so.
When we 'die' or go flat line we are still conscious...exactly as we were before death...the only difference is that we no longer have the 5 senses of the body.
The brain is only flat line because the life force has been removed from the heart plexus and the brain...so yes the brainwaves will now stop because there is no one to drive the body anymore.
We don't think with our brain...thinking takes place in the envelope in which we are focused in life...usually the emotional envelope...which is connected to our brain and body via the etheric envelope.
The brain is only active whilst the Self is present and incarnate...
Brainwaves are only just an indication that someone is present...and we then say we are conscious because we are operating through the body...
We go on after 'death' as normal...without a body...in another world where we came from.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 17:54
...Perhaps our thoughts arise from outside the brain? Perhaps the physical brain limits our thinking? Can the telepathic thoughts be measured? The aura can be sensed through electronic means. Humans are commonly excluded from scientific experiments because their presence interferes with the processes that are set in motion. This relates to the idea that "a watched pot never bold." Is this a sign of the consciousness that we all have? If so, does this consciousness even possess frequency and waves that can be measured?
I know that you asked Ray, and not me, but honestly, if it wasn't for our brains, we would not be aware of any of it.
Flash
15th July 2015, 17:55
...Brainwaves have nothing to do with consciousness...other than been a medium through which consciousness is realised...when the Being/Self withdraws from the brain the brainwaves are less active until it is only the electric impulses which are a result of the brain as an organ. So it is not the brain that causes any higher consciousness no matter how low the brainwaves are...the brainwaves become lower because the real Being/Self has left the brain in a 'free' state...just like when we meditate...we move into higher realms...hopefully...and we no longer focus in the brain...so it slows down.
But I do understand what you are saying, Ray. I really do. But I disagree with you because for the human being, brain waves have everything to do with consciousness. After all, we define death as brain-death...as being "flat-line"...in other words, as a lack of brain waves. The brain could not be more "free" than when it is flat-line, and yet, there is no glimmer of consciousness there, human or otherwise.
Silkie, you seem to be mixing the human body and its higher self. When the human body is refine enough, through meditation, service to others, and probably many many incarnations, the higher self can then incarnate into it, and use it as it want. Before this our body is mainly animal and our awareness too, living through the brain and the senses. But consciousness is the higher self prerogative. It is connected with the higher self, not with the body.
When we talk of soul or spirit, we are starting to talk about consicousness.
Most of us have a very reduce consciousness because we are not refined enough to receive its full power, which would probably be a deadly blow if taking the body as it is actually for most humans.:bigsmile:
So this time, if you want to argue, lets speak with the same language parameters.
Consciousness = not located in the body = higher self
awareness = located in the brain and processed through the senses = 3D humans
Ray, correct me please if I am wrong. but it is the way I understand your descriptions.
As for the brain and body, they are here to allow for the higher self to experiment 3D incarnation and evolution, god experimenting himself. But God's consciousness is elsewhere, as is the consciousness of its parts (our higher self). Brain awareness is useful only in 3D, and is discarted when not necessary anylonger (death).
With all my love to you Silkie and to Omiverse, so that you can experiment, while in the body, the tiny bits of your higher self incanating slowly, as your body and brain allows, trickle by trickle. (and I wish more of it to myself and all humans). You would then KNOW that the soul exist and is not just a fantasy as in your reference above
And your text is false here, how often are people brain dead and are seeing themselves below, on the operating table for example, and hearing what the staff is talking about. There is hundreds of testimonies to that. Brain dead is brain dead, not consciousness (although seeing oneself that way is not real consciouness in my views, not yet)
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 18:01
Finefeather,
Does the telepathic process you describe have anything to do with the observer effect? In that case would it require thought processes that involve the brain?
Perhaps our thoughts arise from outside the brain? Perhaps the physical brain limits our thinking? Can the telepathic thoughts be measured? The aura can be sensed through electronic means. Humans are commonly excluded from scientific experiments because their presence interferes with the processes that are set in motion. This relates to the idea that "a watched pot never bold." Is this a sign of the consciousness that we all have? If so, does this consciousness even possess frequency and waves that can be measured?
I am not sure I understand what you mean by the 'observer effect...but the brain does not think...it is basically a transformer to pass signals(experiences) from the 5 senses to the consciousness.
Our consciousness...which is an aspect of the Self/monad...is found in one or another of the envelopes which surrounds our physical body...it is not in our body or brain.
Aspen
15th July 2015, 18:11
Sorry Silkie and Finefeathers, I was busy taking a walk and editing and didn't notice the conversation had continued on:) I guess I shouldn't have directed the question only to Finefeathers. I would be curious about anyones response that has thought about these things.
Finefeather's explanation makes sense. But it still doesn't explain how consciousness is connected to the contention that when we evolve we are higher frequency or vibration. If we are not even in a body I don't see how frequency and vibration are important at all? Can frequency be measured in the etheric envelope, for example? I was hoping that Finefeathers would explain how the entire New Age mantra of higher frequency being the road to ascension was not true. I was hoping he would say it is one of the deceptions the Dark handlers her mentioned, have foisted on us. But it seems, there is still a piece of understanding that I am missing here. I was thinking about music being an expression and how complex music is inspiring and uplifting. Maybe it is of higher frequency or raises our frequency. Would an analogy to music help us to understand how the physical frequencies and etheric realm and consciousness are all interconnected?
Flash
15th July 2015, 18:15
You may be assuming that attaining different brain levels makes one a better person, Silkie, but I am not. However, what I see then is individuals who are Learning to control their body and their brain waves. This might be useful later on to their higher selfs. They are certainly developing some abilities. Now, dark one can meditate too, but not with the same intent but rather a self centered intent. I think.....
...These two individuals goes through the same brain waves everyday, delta, theta. they sleep (but their dreams are different not because of their brainwaves but because of their awareness of the field and how they interact with that field) and daydream, the brain goes through the same brain wave states, yet, their awareness or consciousness is at different levels and they interact with their environment in completely different ways, while awake, asleep or daydreaming.
The whole problem revolves around assuming that just because someone can access mediational states or the delta state, or other unusual states of consciousness, that it means they automatically become a better person.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 18:16
...When we 'die' or go flat line we are still conscious...exactly as we were before death...the only difference is that we no longer have the 5 senses of the body.
The brain is only flat line because the life force has been removed from the heart plexus and the brain...so yes the brainwaves will now stop because there is no one to drive the body anymore.
We don't think with our brain...thinking takes place in the envelope in which we are focused in life...usually the emotional envelope...which is connected to our brain and body via the etheric envelope.
The brain is only active whilst the Self is present and incarnate...
Brainwaves are only just an indication that someone is present...and we then say we are conscious because we are operating through the body...
We go on after 'death' as normal...without a body...in another world where we came from.
Then with respect, we must agree to disagree, because I think, rather, that it is the body/brain which generates the Self**. And I think so because every experience of other worlds by anybody has been by someone in a body, with at least the semblance of a functioning brain, who has been able to tell us of their experiences. I know that what I am saying is heresy, or even blasphemy, to some, but :ohwell:
** Btw, that does not mean that I am dismissing consciousness as some sort of meaningless epiphenomenon, a la the behaviorists. Far, far from it!
Flash
15th July 2015, 18:26
those kind of proofs would be like trying to prove to my dog that human can read and write, when the dog cannot even use language yet! How could he understand reading and writing?
One single contact with the soul and one's knows it exist and that we are eternal. The proof is there. The sound of an A in the alphabet (equivalent to Learning to speak the sound A for my dog, and knowing it is an A).
Whoever wrote that was a realist who spend decades with various gurus who have expanded consciousness, and knows whereof he speaks.
There is no proof at all that the monad/self is not brain-based, based on experiences of expanded consciousness. I am not saying that it does not exist, just that there is simply no proof. There is no proof because no one has ever come back from the dead to tell us what, if anything, is out there.
p.s. I am not referring to near-death experiences. Near-death is not death. No one has ever come back (woken up in the same body) who was well and truly dead.
I am not going to judge anyone's integrity but I consider and judge what they write...because that is what they put out into the world, and it is that, that other's tend to believe blindly...especially if someone claims to be a guru...and to me after around 40 years of practice...my opinion stands.
I have read the writings of dozens of gurus and they all...without exception...have not yet reached levels of consciousness where they would find information regarding monads...because this is only found in the Causal world and they have only ever got as far as the higher emotional/'astral' worlds.
There are certain truths no one will be able to prove in the physical world...you can only prove them to yourself when you reach these worlds.
Everyone want proof...life is about finding our own truth and proving it to ourself...if we believe any guru or expert we are in trouble because we still will not know for sure until we prove it to ourself.
So proof in spiritual terms cannot be learnt from belief...it comes from personal experience.
Why would someone be able to come back from a near death experience and bring back anything more than they already know.
When you have a near death experience the best that will happen is that you will end up in one of the emotional/'astral' worlds and everything in those worlds can be as chaotic and ignorant as life in the physical.
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 18:32
Sorry all our power has just failed and I need to wait for it to restore. Be back when it comes on.
I take too long typing on a phone keyboard. Fingers to big :)
Love you all
Ray
Selkie
15th July 2015, 18:33
...Consciousness = not located in the body...
I disagree with this, Flash. I don't know how this dogma came about, but I do not think it is true.
...how often are people brain dead and are seeing themselves below, on the operating table for example, and hearing what the staff is talking about. There is hundreds of testimonies to that. Brain dead is brain dead, not consciousness (although seeing oneself that way is not real consciouness in my views, not yet)
If they come back, even if the machine that was reading their brainwaves showed flat-line, then they were not truly dead and they must have been in a state that was so still that the machine did not recognize it as life. But it must have been, because they came back.
Flash
15th July 2015, 18:35
Come on Silkie, I am from another mother tongue, I have learned English late in life and I understand those meanings and the différences between awareness and consciousness and raising versus expanding.
Brain waves ARE NOT consciousness and have little to do with it. They are the car driven by consciousness. But on earth, with the ego dominating, most people's car is driven by itself. It does avoid accident because it has environment detectors, but nobody is giving it direction or destination. the driver is absent, and we see the results.
So please, stop talking about the car (body/brain, brain waves, awareness, etc) when we are trying to explain about the driver (soul, higher self, consciousness).
...what do you think the difference is between raising your consciousness, and expanding your consciousness?
You have to define your terms. When you say "raising" your "consciousness", are you referring to brain waves, or do you mean something more like "social consciousness", which would more accurately be called conscience? Because it is totally possible for someone to have a very expanded consciousness (brain waves) and yet have the morals (conscience) of a sewer rat.
¤=[Post Update]=¤
Because you have not lived it. You did not get YOUR proof. So until there, believe me, or Finefeather, or Carmody, or Ulli, or Jake, or....not much other choices. And I am not a guru thank god.
...Consciousness = not located in the body...
I disagree with this, Flash. I don't know how this dogma came about, but I do not think it is true.
...how often are people brain dead and are seeing themselves below, on the operating table for example, and hearing what the staff is talking about. There is hundreds of testimonies to that. Brain dead is brain dead, not consciousness (although seeing oneself that way is not real consciouness in my views, not yet)
If they come back, even if the machine that was reading their brainwaves showed flat-line, then they were not truly dead and they must have been in a state that was so still that the machine did not recognize it as life. But it must have been, because they came back.
No, some may not have been flat line, rarely, because they are hooked to everything you may think of and brain activity is zero. But lets say some are not flat lined. But other came back hours later, so please, and they describe something very different than what the brain is able to conceive.
But still, YOUR proof will come, no doubts about it, because you want it. For the moment, just wait. And as it is not in the brain, as long as your are using your brain to find it, you won't.
This has been and still is one of the very hard lesson I had/have to learn. I too have a heavy tendency to rely on my intelligent brain.
And I am not frighten for not being eternal, frankly, when I see what those "eternal" ones who have pushed their body to survive by any means (the highest cabal), I do not want to be eternal. When relying only on the body and brain, the human being becomes crazy. When the driver is absent, crazyness in the body follows.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 18:36
those kind of proofs would be like trying to prove to my dog that human can read and write, when the dog cannot even use language yet! How could he understand reading and writing?
One single contact with the soul and one's knows it exist and that we are eternal. The proof is there. The sound of an A in the alphabet (equivalent to Learning to speak the sound A for my dog, and knowing it is an A).
Whoever wrote that was a realist who spend decades with various gurus who have expanded consciousness, and knows whereof he speaks.
There is no proof at all that the monad/self is not brain-based, based on experiences of expanded consciousness. I am not saying that it does not exist, just that there is simply no proof. There is no proof because no one has ever come back from the dead to tell us what, if anything, is out there.
p.s. I am not referring to near-death experiences. Near-death is not death. No one has ever come back (woken up in the same body) who was well and truly dead.
I am not going to judge anyone's integrity but I consider and judge what they write...because that is what they put out into the world, and it is that, that other's tend to believe blindly...especially if someone claims to be a guru...and to me after around 40 years of practice...my opinion stands.
I have read the writings of dozens of gurus and they all...without exception...have not yet reached levels of consciousness where they would find information regarding monads...because this is only found in the Causal world and they have only ever got as far as the higher emotional/'astral' worlds.
There are certain truths no one will be able to prove in the physical world...you can only prove them to yourself when you reach these worlds.
Everyone want proof...life is about finding our own truth and proving it to ourself...if we believe any guru or expert we are in trouble because we still will not know for sure until we prove it to ourself.
So proof in spiritual terms cannot be learnt from belief...it comes from personal experience.
Why would someone be able to come back from a near death experience and bring back anything more than they already know.
When you have a near death experience the best that will happen is that you will end up in one of the emotional/'astral' worlds and everything in those worlds can be as chaotic and ignorant as life in the physical.
Many people are frightened by the thought that perhaps they (or some part of them) is not eternal. But it doesn't bother me.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 18:39
You may be assuming that attaining different brain levels makes one a better person, Silkie, but I am not...
No, Flash...I meant just the opposite. I think that attaining different brain states does not automatically make someone a better person.
Flash
15th July 2015, 18:44
You may be assuming that attaining different brain levels makes one a better person, Silkie, but I am not...
No, Flash...I meant just the opposite. I think that attaining different brain states does not automatically make someone a better person.
I know you meant the opposite. I just wanted to make you react.
and this one below is soooooo funny, however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
Btw, that does not mean that I am dismissing consciousness as some sort of meaningless epiphenomenon, a la the behaviorists. Far, far from it!
And I am not frighten for not being eternal, frankly, when I see what those "eternal" ones who have pushed their body to survive by any means (the highest cabal), I do not want to be eternal. When relying only on the body and brain, the human being becomes crazy. When the driver is absent, crazyness in the body follows.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 18:47
...Brain waves ARE NOT consciousness and have little to do with it. They are the car driven by consciousness.
This is nothing but dogma.
Because you have not lived it. You did not get YOUR proof. So until there, believe me, or Finefeather, or Carmody, or Ulli, or Jake, or....not much other choices. And I am not a guru thank god.
You are wrong, Flash. I have lived it. Just because I came to a different conclusion about things than you did does not mean that I have not lived it.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 18:55
You may be assuming that attaining different brain levels makes one a better person, Silkie, but I am not...
No, Flash...I meant just the opposite. I think that attaining different brain states does not automatically make someone a better person.
I know you meant the opposite. I just wanted to make you react.
So you were trolling me? It makes me sad that you would do that to me, Flash. Don't you realize that from now on, I cannot trust you to be sincere?
Flash
15th July 2015, 18:59
Yes, in one post only, to poke your intelligence, because I do like our exchanges, even if they do look edgy at times.
I am a kitten, and poked you that way (not trolled you) as I would do a good friend and then start laughing with him/her. Like cats playing with their hearts. No need for distrust, on the contrary, I rarely do that on the forum except for Nat Lee whom I love dearly.
You may be assuming that attaining different brain levels makes one a better person, Silkie, but I am not...
No, Flash...I meant just the opposite. I think that attaining different brain states does not automatically make someone a better person.
I know you meant the opposite. I just wanted to make you react.
So you were trolling me? It makes me sad that you would do that to me, Flash. Don't you realize that from now on, I cannot trust you to be sincere?
Selkie
15th July 2015, 19:00
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Flash
15th July 2015, 19:03
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Bon... Silkie is angry instead of having fun. Take my post with heart Silkie because they are, all of them, filled with heart. And I do not want to approve you or judge you or anything of the sort. I just want to play, have fun, exchange and let you be you. When I elected thread killer of the month, we both had fun doing it and playing with it. This is what I mean.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 19:05
...Silkie, you seem to be mixing the human body and its higher self...
Not mixing. The body is the Self. They are one and the same.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 19:08
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Bon... Silkie is angry instead of having fun...
I am not angry. I am saddened, and I feel unsafe.
addition So you take pleasure in the thought that I am not having fun, and that you hoped to make me angry? Why would you do that?
Flash
15th July 2015, 19:13
Sorry for this, and more sorry if I am the source of your sadness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuHalaLzjs
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Bon... Silkie is angry instead of having fun. Take my post with heart Silkie because they are, all of them, filled with heart. And I do not want to approve you or judge you or anything of the sort. I just want to play, have fun, exchange and let you be you. When I elected thread killer of the month, we both had fun doing it and playing with it. This is what I mean.
I am not angry. I am saddened, and I feel unsafe.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 19:17
Sorry for this, and more sorry if I am the source of your sadness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuHalaLzjs
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Bon... Silkie is angry instead of having fun. Take my post with heart Silkie because they are, all of them, filled with heart. And I do not want to approve you or judge you or anything of the sort. I just want to play, have fun, exchange and let you be you. When I elected thread killer of the month, we both had fun doing it and playing with it. This is what I mean.
I am not angry. I am saddened, and I feel unsafe.
You are also the source of my feeling of un-safety because you deliberately tried to anger me by deliberately misunderstanding me.
Flash
15th July 2015, 19:24
We are right now derailing the thread, i sent you 2 pms. We can continue discussing frustration, sadness, unsafety there if you do not mind.
Sorry for this, and more sorry if I am the source of your sadness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuHalaLzjs
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Bon... Silkie is angry instead of having fun. Take my post with heart Silkie because they are, all of them, filled with heart. And I do not want to approve you or judge you or anything of the sort. I just want to play, have fun, exchange and let you be you. When I elected thread killer of the month, we both had fun doing it and playing with it. This is what I mean.
I am not angry. I am saddened, and I feel unsafe.
You are also the source of my feeling of un-safety because you deliberately tried to anger me by deliberately misunderstanding me.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 19:28
We are right now derailing the thread, i sent you 2 pms. We can continue discussing frustration, sadness, unsafety there if you do not mind.
Sorry for this, and more sorry if I am the source of your sadness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuHalaLzjs
...however it is the show case for being entirely in ones' brain - at least try the heart too!!!
I do not have to answer posts to meet with your approval, Flash. No one does.
Bon... Silkie is angry instead of having fun. Take my post with heart Silkie because they are, all of them, filled with heart. And I do not want to approve you or judge you or anything of the sort. I just want to play, have fun, exchange and let you be you. When I elected thread killer of the month, we both had fun doing it and playing with it. This is what I mean.
I am not angry. I am saddened, and I feel unsafe.
You are also the source of my feeling of un-safety because you deliberately tried to anger me by deliberately misunderstanding me.
I hardly think it is a good idea to discuss safety with you, since you deliberately tried to anger me.
Not to mention that this thread was on topic quite nicely until you came at me, here
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=978676&viewfull=1#post978676
Now, I would love to get back-to-topic.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 20:26
Sorry Silkie and Finefeathers, I was busy taking a walk and editing and didn't notice the conversation had continued on:) I guess I shouldn't have directed the question only to Finefeathers. I would be curious about anyones response that has thought about these things.
Finefeather's explanation makes sense. But it still doesn't explain how consciousness is connected to the contention that when we evolve we are higher frequency or vibration. If we are not even in a body I don't see how frequency and vibration are important at all? Can frequency be measured in the etheric envelope, for example? I was hoping that Finefeathers would explain how the entire New Age mantra of higher frequency being the road to ascension was not true. I was hoping he would say it is one of the deceptions the Dark handlers her mentioned, have foisted on us. But it seems, there is still a piece of understanding that I am missing here. I was thinking about music being an expression and how complex music is inspiring and uplifting. Maybe it is of higher frequency or raises our frequency. Would an analogy to music help us to understand how the physical frequencies and etheric realm and consciousness are all interconnected?
If I may add my two cents, I think at least a partial answer to your question may be here,
Now, dark one can meditate too, but not with the same intent but rather a self centered intent. I think.....
I think Flash is correct, because a wave is just a wave, no matter what its frequency, and, if I understand things correctly, waves as such do not carry information (intent). It is not until waves are pulsed that they become carriers of information (intent). So a wave would pulse according to the intent it carries. So any frequency could be malign or benign. It would depend upon how the waves are pulsed. Just a thought.
Aspen
15th July 2015, 20:34
I don't understand the concept of "pulsed." I have never heard that before. I feel quite out of my element with all this physics stuff, pulse, wave, frequency etc. Maybe the "dark" ones are just people that have given themselves over to evil - like the concept of "selling your soul" but are actually still humans or humanoid ETs. Just a thought. From what I have read of the archons, they don't have real life and are parasitical so maybe we don't need to worry so much about those dark ones and their thoughts. . . . Well maybe talking about dark ones is going to be even more vague than trying to figure out how increasing frequency in humans works . . . .
Finefeather
15th July 2015, 20:47
Then with respect, we must agree to disagree, because I think, rather, that it is the body/brain which generates the Self**. And I think so because every experience of other worlds by anybody has been by someone in a body, with at least the semblance of a functioning brain, who has been able to tell us of their experiences. I know that what I am saying is heresy, or even blasphemy, to some, but :ohwell:
Ok Silkie last post from me...promise :)
I have no problem if we disagree, I am not here to convince anyone of anything...I just sit and write when I have time...if you like what I write that also ok by me.
Usually when I write I have Harvey the cat walking all over the keyboard and I have to continually drag him away from the screen so I have a lot of fun as well.
You should read up a bit on the Monroe Foundation website for some interesting research and information they have brought back from out of body journeys.
Even our Jake has written a little book and then we have SirDipswitch who has a great thread about OB...and not to mention TraineeHuman and Greybeard and Ulli and many other interesting threads that might be of interest to you.
I have been going out of body for a number of years...around 40...and been to other worlds...out of my body...with my consciousness as it is in the physical... and even to halls of learning where I was taught many things...which I am now writing about in some of my posts.
But the thing we should never be content with is our knowledge because we never know when we will get some bit of information which will tip our skeptical mind into another reality for us...which could start us off on the next exciting phase of our growth...this is why I never sit still to watch the flowers when I can flit off somewhere into another world and see the beauty that awaits us in some distant future.
Thanks again for the chat
With love
Ray
Selkie
15th July 2015, 21:24
...out of body journeys.
Even our Jake has written a little book and then we have SirDipswitch who has a great thread about OB...and not to mention TraineeHuman and Greybeard and Ulli and many other interesting threads that might be of interest to you.
I have been going out of body for a number of years...around 40...and been to other worlds...out of my body...with my consciousness as it is in the physical... and even to halls of learning where I was taught many things...which I am now writing about in some of my posts.
Thanks again for the chat
With love
Ray
I go "out of body", too, and I've done LSD and mushrooms, although never morphine, and I lived in a meditative state nearly continuously for more than two years, in a situation of intense social isolation. But I see going "out of body" and related phenomena as being examples of expanded consciousness based on lowered (in other words, slow...sometimes very slow...brain waves. slower than our machines have mapped, perhaps) brain waves.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=978560&viewfull=1#post978560
I also think that even our normal, everyday consciousness is sometimes much more expanded than we realize, hence, ESP, pre-cognition, etc. So basically, I see it as not being necessary to posit that consciousness is not of the brain or body. It is only necessary to posit that sometimes, our consciousness expands without our awareness that it has done so, and when this happens, we meet other consciousnesses who are in the same state: in bodies, but expanded, close (or just closer) to the point of stillness, where all are one. Or we "go" to places that we normally cannot not go, etc.
Selkie
15th July 2015, 21:45
I don't understand the concept of "pulsed." I have never heard that before. I feel quite out of my element with all this physics stuff, pulse, wave, frequency etc. Maybe the "dark" ones are just people that have given themselves over to evil - like the concept of "selling your soul" but are actually still humans or humanoid ETs. Just a thought. From what I have read of the archons, they don't have real life and are parasitical so maybe we don't need to worry so much about those dark ones and their thoughts. . . . Well maybe talking about dark ones is going to be even more vague than trying to figure out how increasing frequency in humans works . . . .
If I understand things correctly, it is like the test pattern on a tv. When there is a signal, but no content, you get the test pattern, with its characteristic sound, but when there is a program on, the signal is pulsed, and you receive a show of some kind. If I open my mouth and intone "aaaaaaaaaaaa..." there is a wave, but it is not carrying information (intent). But if I say, "I am opening the door" (for instance), I have pulsed the frequency and filled it with intent (information). That is how I understand things, but I am simple-minded about these things :blushing:
Agape
15th July 2015, 21:58
I won't be long today but want to add this much ..
Brain waves ARE NOT consciousness and have little to do with it. They are the car driven by consciousness. But on earth, with the ego dominating, most people's car is driven by itself. It does avoid accident because it has environment detectors, but nobody is giving it direction or destination. the driver is absent, and we see the results.
Brainwaves are to Consciousness ... as .. ( draw your own parallels ) waves and ripples are to the Sea . It's more like that , less mechanical than some of todays 'computer bioengineers' try to imagine .
Imagine there's no brainwave , state zero .. there you say brain is dead . There's no Sea without waves and ripples ,
even in the most sublime, subliminal state of 'consciousness' there's still activity , like at the sea bottom . Consciousness as also brain are more like fluid , liquid , livid ,
more than they'd be schematic .
This is where 'crash' occurs between any technology and the brain, like a large fishing net you throw to the Sea so is computer interface .
It can 'catch brainwaves' and map the biotope as when fishermen net fish for marine life .
It gives them 'some idea' about the nature of the biotope . It does not describe who you are and how deep the sea goes and creatures in its depths .
It shows whether you're calm and clear or have undercurrents of another activity in you and so forth . The way you react .
You or your doctor are obliged to know yourself much better than that
:panda:
Selkie
15th July 2015, 22:55
..even in the most sublime, subliminal state of 'consciousness' there's still activity , like at the sea bottom...
Yes, and it is known that the longest, slowest waves (infrasound) carry the farthest, and with very little diminishment over distance. So I wonder if the analogy to infrasound could apply to consciousness? Consciousness does not produce infrasound, but perhaps the long, slow waves like delta (or even slower) can carry very far...much farther than anyone dreams they can, and with the same lack of diminishment over distance that infrasound exhibits. Those long, slow waves could be seen, then, as the "infrasound" of consciousness, by analogy.
MrCasual
15th July 2015, 23:23
I was never really into the 'new age' movement, but for me there is something about moving into a higher vibration. I started meditating to a sound I heard inside about a year and half ago, first time ever meditating. I worked on it, tried to control it and raise it. It wasn't long before I started to hear multiple frequencies. At first they would come and go, but now they are on all the time. My body literally vibrates all the time now, so hard to get sleep sometimes. I am thinking a 'higher vibration' in not only a mental state but a physical state. Back in April I found a YouTube video, that seemed to explain what I was hearing inside and feeling.
xX7AG5uEslY
Selkie
15th July 2015, 23:56
I was never really into the 'new age' movement, but for me there is something about moving into a higher vibration. I started meditating to a sound I heard inside about a year and half ago, first time ever meditating. I worked on it, tried to control it and raise it. It wasn't long before I started to hear multiple frequencies. At first they would come and go, but now they are on all the time. My body literally vibrates all the time now, so hard to get sleep sometimes. I am thinking a 'higher vibration' in not only a mental state but a physical state. Back in April I found a YouTube video, that seemed to explain what I was hearing inside and feeling.
xX7AG5uEslY
This is interesting to me because that is how things started for me, too, when I lived near an extinct volcano, in central California.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutter_Buttes
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Sutter_Buttes_Bird's_eye_view.jpg/280px-Sutter_Buttes_Bird's_eye_view.jpg
It started with a high-pitched tone and then went to pulses and multiple tones. The whole time I lived there, for 7 years, I had the most amazing dreams and often felt like I far away at night, in my sleep, which I later found out was probably OBEs.
p.s. I have never formally meditated, but when I was living very isolated, I used to go into what I now know was a meditative state, just to stand the isolation.
Also, with infrasound, when a wave comes through, although you can't (usually) hear it, it can set off a harmonic in your ears and make them ring. There is a feeling like you have been buffeted on the head, and then a feeling like your ears have been muffled, and then, sometimes, your ears will ring, which is the harmonic.
Oh, and they are directional. You can always tell what direction the wave comes from.
Agape
16th July 2015, 00:07
..even in the most sublime, subliminal state of 'consciousness' there's still activity , like at the sea bottom...
Yes, and it is known that the longest, slowest waves (infrasound) carry the farthest, and with very little diminishment over distance. So I wonder if the analogy to infrasound could apply to consciousness? Consciousness does not produce infrasound, but perhaps the long, slow waves like delta (or even slower) can carry very far...much farther than anyone dreams they can, and with the same lack of diminishment over distance that infrasound exhibits. Those long, slow waves could be seen, then, as the "infrasound" of consciousness, by analogy.
My thoughts too . I asked about it since long ago , still when I was a kid , I thought ..thoughts have to be a form of subtle energy that can actually travel between people ,on long waves through thin air
we may be coding that energy , now the first person who can prove thoughts can travel and what's the frequency are in for Nobel price i presume
so statistically taken there's probably at least 100 people around the globe trying to work this out at the moment ,
lets hope they succeed :bigsmile:
I think now , ''what is awareness'' . The part of consciousness we are acutely aware of is more less like water surface , the 'edge' frequency where transformation happens from one state of matter-consciouses to another state of matter-consciousness .
The latter is mostly , still 'invisible' to us on the level of gross awareness alone .
The surface ...is where 'awakened consciousness' = alpha waves occur the most ,
I am sorry for using my own classification system now
the surface also acts like a mirror .
:coffee:
MrCasual
16th July 2015, 00:29
Silkie I am new to these forums. I just posted my experiences in the Spiritual section... very deep from my end. And it is still going, I have not share notes after the beginning of this year.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83656-The-Old-Souls-Madman-Notes
I was never really into the 'new age' movement, but for me there is something about moving into a higher vibration. I started meditating to a sound I heard inside about a year and half ago, first time ever meditating. I worked on it, tried to control it and raise it. It wasn't long before I started to hear multiple frequencies. At first they would come and go, but now they are on all the time. My body literally vibrates all the time now, so hard to get sleep sometimes. I am thinking a 'higher vibration' in not only a mental state but a physical state. Back in April I found a YouTube video, that seemed to explain what I was hearing inside and feeling.
xX7AG5uEslY
This is interesting to me because that is how things started for me, too, when I lived near an extinct volcano, in central California.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutter_Buttes
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Sutter_Buttes_Bird's_eye_view.jpg/280px-Sutter_Buttes_Bird's_eye_view.jpg
It started with a high-pitched tone and then went to pulses and multiple tones. The whole time I lived there, for 7 years, I had the most amazing dreams and often felt like I far away at night, in my sleep, which I later found out was probably OBEs.
p.s. I have never formally meditated, but when I was living very isolated, I used to go into what I now know was a meditative state, just to stand the isolation.
Also, with infrasound, when a wave comes through, although you can't (usually) hear it, it can set off a harmonic in your ears and make them ring. There is a feeling like you have been buffeted on the head, and then a feeling like your ears have been muffled, and then, sometimes, your ears will ring, which is the harmonic.
Oh, and they are directional. You can always tell what direction the wave comes from.
Selkie
16th July 2015, 16:18
..even in the most sublime, subliminal state of 'consciousness' there's still activity , like at the sea bottom...
Yes, and it is known that the longest, slowest waves (infrasound) carry the farthest, and with very little diminishment over distance. So I wonder if the analogy to infrasound could apply to consciousness? Consciousness does not produce infrasound, but perhaps the long, slow waves like delta (or even slower) can carry very far...much farther than anyone dreams they can, and with the same lack of diminishment over distance that infrasound exhibits. Those long, slow waves could be seen, then, as the "infrasound" of consciousness, by analogy.
My thoughts too . I asked about it since long ago , still when I was a kid , I thought ..thoughts have to be a form of subtle energy that can actually travel between people ,on long waves through thin air
we may be coding that energy , now the first person who can prove thoughts can travel and what's the frequency are in for Nobel price i presume
so statistically taken there's probably at least 100 people around the globe trying to work this out at the moment ,
lets hope they succeed :bigsmile:
I think now , ''what is awareness'' . The part of consciousness we are acutely aware of is more less like water surface , the 'edge' frequency where transformation happens from one state of matter-consciouses to another state of matter-consciousness .
The latter is mostly , still 'invisible' to us on the level of gross awareness alone .
The surface ...is where 'awakened consciousness' = alpha waves occur the most ,
I am sorry for using my own classification system now
the surface also acts like a mirror .
:coffee:
Yes. And the different rhythms each have their own purposes and reasons for being. We would not have them all if we did not need them all; I mean, after all, if you wander around a busy city in alpha rhythm, you risk getting hit by a bus.
In relation to the OP, it is said that the Archons feed on fear. Well, fear is part of the beta rhythm, as you can see from the chart (far right).
http://betabrainwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/brain-waves.gif
And clearly, beta is a fast (high) vibration. So it makes me wonder if the Archons are fast (high) vibe entities. It's weird, though, that the Grays usually appear to people while they are sleeping, which is when the person is in theta. It is almost like the Grays inject a shot of fear into the sleeping person, who then wakes up terrified while they are in theta and high beta, simultaneously, aka, in sleep paralysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
Because it is very weird that people are almost always terrified, and have terrifying hallucinations, when they wake up in sleep paralysis.
p.s. I have had sleep paralysis myself (although not for a long, long time) and the fear comes before I wake up. It is not like I wake up and then become afraid. The fear is there first, and it is the fear, itself, that wakes me. I have never seen Grays, although I do have a scoop mark.
p.s. Although it is said that the Archons feed on fear, I think this is basically correct, though inaccurate. I think they feed on some physiological product of the human body that accompanies the feeling of fear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenochrome
(In the spirit of credit where credit is due, a hat tip to John Lash for that one.)
Aspen
16th July 2015, 18:39
Maybe they feed on Beta energy? I am still trying to grasp the concept of the long slow wave and how it may reach somewhere else, into another realm??? "Yes, and it is known that the longest, slowest waves (infrasound) carry the farthest, and with very little diminishment over distance. So I wonder if the analogy to infrasound could apply to consciousness? Consciousness does not produce infrasound, but perhaps the long, slow waves like delta (or even slower) can carry very far...much farther than anyone dreams they can, and with the same lack of diminishment over distance that infrasound exhibits. Those long, slow waves could be seen, then, as the "infrasound" of consciousness, by analogy." - Silkie
I am also encouraged by Agape's theory that electronic surveylance of all the social media or an attempt at reading our thoughts electronically (such as Jade 2 AI) cannot possibly capture all the nuances any more than a fishermans net in the ocean will give the fisherman a full picture of all that goes on in the ocean.
Last spring I went to see a psychic (one of the few times I have done so) and she said it would be helpful for me to listen to whale sounds for healing and letting go of unhealthy energies that I might be holding onto.
All these thoughts remind me of the blue whales and the deep sounds they make that carry many miles, I think a hundred miles. The sound waves must be VERY long! lol
savCAd6RyPI
the sounds are more intense and louder starting at the middle of this video
I thought it was curious that today on facebook I came across this article about a Tibetan monk who is registering unusual levels of gamma waves. http://themindunleashed.org/2013/08/a-buddhist-monk-shows-unheard-of-brain.html For all those who meditate out there, is this even possible? Gamma rays are very fast frequencies. I thought that the goal of meditation is to slow the mind down and therefore delta or theta brain wave activity would be the predominant one?????? Is this article a lie or is it possible that by quieting some parts of the mind down that we could speed up other parts and experience higher frequencies that are unusual, as this article asserts????
Maybe it relates to the analogy of the deep ocean with nuances that are undetected on the surface???
A Buddhist Monk Shows “Unheard Of” Brain Activity During Meditation
“Meditation is the dissolution of thoughts in eternal awareness or pure consciousness without objectification, knowing without thinking, merging finitude in infinity.” ―Voltaire
The first part of this article was written by: Rachel Nuwer, SmithsonianMag.com
Matthieu Ricard, a 66-year old Tibetan monk and geneticist, produces brain gamma waves—linked to consciousness, attention, learning and memory—never before reported in neuroscience, leading researchers to conclude that Ricard is the world’s happiest man. The secret to his success in achieving bliss? Meditation, he claims.
“Meditating is like lifting weights or exercising for the mind”, Ricard told the Daily News. “Anyone can be happy by simply training their brain”, he says.
To quantify just how happy Ricard is, neuroscientists at the University of Wisconsin attached 256 sensors to the monk’s skull. When he meditated on compassion, the researchers were shocked to see that Ricard’s brian produces a level of gamma waves off the charts. He also demonstrated excessive activity in his brain’s left prefrontal cortex compared to its right counterpart, meaning he has an abnormally large capacity for happiness and a reduced propensity towards negativity, the researchers say.
During the same study, the neuroscientists also peeked into the minds of other monks. They found that long-term practitioners—those who have engaged in more than 50,000 rounds of meditation—showed significant changes in their brain function, although that those with only three weeks of 20-minute meditation per day also demonstrated some change."
http://themindunleashed.org/2013/08/a-buddhist-monk-shows-unheard-of-brain.html
Please, if you meditate, could you comment on this. Does, quieting the chatter, lead to increased capacity for happy or high energy feelings? Or is this article claiming something that is not true in an attempt to get more people to meditate????
Aspen
16th July 2015, 18:43
..even in the most sublime, subliminal state of 'consciousness' there's still activity , like at the sea bottom...
Yes, and it is known that the longest, slowest waves (infrasound) carry the farthest, and with very little diminishment over distance. So I wonder if the analogy to infrasound could apply to consciousness? Consciousness does not produce infrasound, but perhaps the long, slow waves like delta (or even slower) can carry very far...much farther than anyone dreams they can, and with the same lack of diminishment over distance that infrasound exhibits. Those long, slow waves could be seen, then, as the "infrasound" of consciousness, by analogy.
My thoughts too . I asked about it since long ago , still when I was a kid , I thought ..thoughts have to be a form of subtle energy that can actually travel between people ,on long waves through thin air
we may be coding that energy , now the first person who can prove thoughts can travel and what's the frequency are in for Nobel price i presume
so statistically taken there's probably at least 100 people around the globe trying to work this out at the moment ,
lets hope they succeed :bigsmile:
I think now , ''what is awareness'' . The part of consciousness we are acutely aware of is more less like water surface , the 'edge' frequency where transformation happens from one state of matter-consciouses to another state of matter-consciousness .
The latter is mostly , still 'invisible' to us on the level of gross awareness alone .
The surface ...is where 'awakened consciousness' = alpha waves occur the most ,
I am sorry for using my own classification system now
the surface also acts like a mirror .
:coffee:
So when you say transformation do you mean evolution or improvement of some kind? Or is the transformation from one state of consciousness to another simply a kind of exploration, we are simply exploring another realm? Like people do when they travel astrally? The youtube video that MrCausal posted also talked about moving into the sound, the high pitched sound, and reaching a horizon "where you will find something phenomenal." This particular meditation where you are allowing the high pitched sounds to become louder and moving into them seems like the kind of thing you were describing Agape. Have you ever used this practise and does it relate to the yoga practices using sound that you described earlier?
I have recently had much louder ringing in the ears than before in my life, but have never consciously tried to meditate on it for any length. I have often wondered what it was, if maybe someone was thinking about me or sending a thought telepathically.
Selkie
16th July 2015, 20:39
...“Meditation is the dissolution of thoughts in eternal awareness or pure consciousness without objectification, knowing without thinking, merging finitude in infinity.” ―Voltaire
...When he meditated on compassion...
About that article, the above strikes me as a contradiction. If meditation is the dissolution of thoughts, then how can anyone meditate on anything?
...for the mind to simply acknowledge its content without becoming identified with that content,[1] or as an end in itself.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation
From personal experience, I know that the meditation really is the dissolution of thought. I got to where I could hold that state for very long periods of time, and I still can, when I want to, but overall, I found that my experience of being in a prolonged meditative state to be really quite harmful.
Mediation can cause a reaction called meditation-induced anxiety.
http://www.suggestibility.org/surprise.php
If a person becomes anxious during meditation, they should stop, because continuing to meditate when it makes you anxious can be very, very harmful. Too much meditation can also render one chronically dissociated and makes one extremely suggestible.
http://www.suggestibility.org/surprise.php
http://thehumanist.com/magazine/september-october-2007/features/can-meditation-be-bad-for-you
Many meditation practitioners have complained of difficulty doing simple arithmetic and remembering names of close friends after prolonged meditation. The effect is rather like that of Newspeak’s obliteration of the English language in George Orwell’s 1984.
Meditation can also lead to hallucinations and psychosis in some people, even though they have no history of mental illness.
http://thehumanist.com/magazine/september-october-2007/features/can-meditation-be-bad-for-you
There were a few occasions where I felt as though I was “one with the universe”, and I once began hallucinating that the trees outside were vibrating with white light, convinced I could hear the sacred Om sound booming through the Himalayan night.
I did not get meditation-induced anxiety, but I do have a problem with chronic dissociation that is still lingering. It is not a pleasant feeling, let me tell you.
So in answer to your question, I think that, yes, the PTB do want everyone to meditate. And they want us to meditate because it can severely undercut critical thinking and makes people passive and suggestible.
addition I think this link would be useful here, too:
http://www.strippingthegurus.com/ebook/The%20Internal%20Mystery%20Plays.pdf
The Internal Mystery Plays: The Role and Physiology of the Visual System in Contemplative Practices
Aspen
16th July 2015, 23:29
Yes, I can see how for people who dissociate easily that meditation could be dangerous or even habit forming. It would be just another form of dissociation. I remember I gave a client a guided imagery relaxation CD a couple of months ago, thinking it would help prepare her for a trial where she had to be a witness to calm her down. She told me about two months later that she had probably listened to it a hundred times!
I don't meditate much myself. Only 15 minutes or so at a time. Mostly I try to focus on grounding and quieting down the mental chatter that I normally have (obviously). I sit outside in nature or do walking meditation like Tich Naht Han taught, where I am trying to focus on the now moment.
I wonder for people who meditate for years, if this article rings true? It seems like the propaganda of ascension, encouraging people to focus on higher frequencies. But maybe there really is such a thing. The high pitched tone that another member posted here definitely seems like a higher frequency. I wonder if other people intentionally attempt to focus on higher frequencies? It seems to me that increased anxiety would naturally be the result. . . . But I think that sensitive people will have higher anxiety from any number of causes so maybe it is hard to prove it is just this one cause.
I hadn't heard that meditation can increase anxiety. I thought the opposite was true. good links.
Recently in the profession of psychotherapy it has been discovered that dissociation is much more common than previously realized. It is being talked about in the mainstream psychology lately. I wonder if this is because humanity in general is stressed these days or maybe from intergenerational traumas that have never been healed. Dissociation is caused by a person going into the freeze state because their life feels threatened. It is a type of coping behaviour (Fight flight freeze). The freeze state is more likely to occur when a person is a child because the nervous system is only partially developed. If a person does not fully recover from this after the trauma, then it is more likely that he or she will go into freeze (or dissociation) as a preferred coping - the next time they experience a trauma. There are degrees of dissociation, a sliding scale. Many of us dissociate slightly when we are in traffic on the way home after a long day at work. But some people literally leave their body and see their abuse happening from the doorway ( I have met survivors of childhood sexual abuse where this happens). Some never really fully embody their physical self again, for example, after years of witnessing domestic violence. I could see how people with a history like that would need to be very cautious. http://psychcentral.com/lib/in-depth-understanding-dissociative-disorders/
Maybe the elite have known about dissociation for a long time? Any of them involved with milab or mind control through childhood sexual abuse or other severe traumas intentionally done to children would be very aware of dissociation. Maybe they have hit upon the idea of increasing the prevalence of dissociation in the collective population in order to make it easier to control us. But maybe dissociation and anxiety have been around for generations. For example, it could not have been easy to be a peasant in Europe with all the wars and famines and plagues. But maybe under the serf system life was quite stable. A couple of hundred years ago the average person didn't venture more than 20 miles from where they lived and often had large extended family.
Agape
17th July 2015, 10:47
And clearly, beta is a fast (high) vibration. So it makes me wonder if the Archons are fast (high) vibe entities. It's weird, though, that the Grays usually appear to people while they are sleeping, which is when the person is in theta. It is almost like the Grays inject a shot of fear into the sleeping person, who then wakes up terrified while they are in theta and high beta, simultaneously, aka, in sleep paralysis.
In my knowledge and opinion - mostly , at this point - the Universe and living Beings can entertain almost endless number of variations and modulations of such 'brainwaves' .
Speaking of real time encounters between two distant civilisations ( or two species , look to what kind of 'communication' do we have with whales , or say ants , on this very planet for that purpose ) ,
there's certain frequency spectrum we can match - or say 'hijack' , in case of less developed species it may be more perceived in that way ,
if you start 'howling' with dogs or chirping with birds or mimic dolphin sounds and whistles , we're essentially 'hijacking' their communication frequencies there ,
so there's certain spectre we can share but not the rest . Each individual species are uniquely complex in the way they function.
It makes good sense to me with regards to close ET-Human encounters , leaving the generally confused debate about who is benevolent here or not aside ,
all of my encounters beyond human level were benevolent ,
it does not mean they were all easy to understand .
As you have mentioned ( greys ) and other such entities and their communications are mostly happening on subliminal level for humans .
It means they're using either the part of frequency spectre that we as living organisms share in common or/and they're accessing /hijacking our 'pure awareness' , frequency reserved for more open minded deliberations and communications .
From my knowledge and experience , most of the advanced beings in the Universe operate mentally on much higher/faster frequency level than what you call gross 'beta' - in my analogy of ocean and its surface , the 'edge' of our waking consciousness vibe that has to deal with dense reality , and beyond .
My own frequency is hardly accustomed to the same range , of course I can adjust ( more or less perfectly ) but lets say , I'm home more on the subliminal level - for most humans - that's why I 'don't talk' and vice versa.
I can empathise quite well with what's happening on their frequency , a bit like if you hijack police radio communication but I don't think they can successfully understand mine - quite yet .
The science is evolving .. if we start matching unique frequency ranges with alphabet letters it would be clear soon enough they we contain them all ,
and more .
Agape
17th July 2015, 11:44
So when you say transformation do you mean evolution or improvement of some kind? Or is the transformation from one state of consciousness to another simply a kind of exploration, we are simply exploring another realm? Like people do when they travel astrally? The youtube video that MrCausal posted also talked about moving into the sound, the high pitched sound, and reaching a horizon "where you will find something phenomenal." This particular meditation where you are allowing the high pitched sounds to become louder and moving into them seems like the kind of thing you were describing Agape. Have you ever used this practise and does it relate to the yoga practices using sound that you described earlier?
I have recently had much louder ringing in the ears than before in my life, but have never consciously tried to meditate on it for any length. I have often wondered what it was, if maybe someone was thinking about me or sending a thought telepathically.
I'm talking /thinking of tangible biological ( in broad sense also physical ) phenomenon and what is actually happening with so called 'consciousness' of any organism,
again, using the analogy of body of water ( ocean ) and its surface ( the edge of awareness ) and what happens on the surface,
practically .
Sublimation happens , water evaporates to satiate the 'bubble' of planetary atmosphere , the surface receives most of the Sun heat ; we all do , else we'd be maximally icy beings on icy planet :bigsmile:
So when we see water evaporating it does not 'disappear' , it fills the atmospheric bubble and can rain on us back later, it's an elementary transformation we observe .. matter changing state from one form of density to another .
Obviously , gas is also a state of matter , so is plasma and many other material states todays physics ( and biology ) did not describe yet . The 'transformation' happens on frequency level so also particle level and any other method you use to describe how/why one form of element changes to another .
From my perspective : the physical pulse ( and other biological markers ) we can currently measure in human beings are merely like scratching the surface,
they're the grossest manifestation of more subtle organism .
From one perspective , you don't perceive the 'subtle' as real .. you even don't see your own self unless offered a 'mirror' on the same frequency .
You think there's 'nothing' beyond the 3D density ( not you .. any disgruntled reader , just drawing a perspective ) .
Couple of things may happen in the ionosphere so also in what we could call 'bio-field' of any living being .
Through the edge of awareness ... may be heightened awareness ( such as in stress states ), accomplished awareness ( closing on big problem or question of lifetime ..as an example ), excited awareness ( great joy, even great sadness though the later is disputable , excitation, bliss ) it's fairly possible to say for example : that electrons and their bounds reach higher excitation state ,
they start to vibrate faster , reach higher level of conscious awareness where you can still perform logical processes ( as opposed /complimentary to level of such awareness you naturally entertain but can't 'operate' consciously on such frequency/level )
your awareness 'manifests' another body = which is who you are in original anyway = that works as long as it is charged enough on that particular frequency/vibration level .
So in fact , any living entity can manifest such 'high excitation state' under conducive circumstances ,
the problem ( of observability ) is that in most people such state happens a/all the time, continuously .. as a form of slow evolutionary process , so that over generations and generations higher state of conscious ( excitation ) thinking process can be reached
b/for short time in 'manifested way' , under circumstances but since we are not accustomed to such level of awareness globally ,
it usually fades and 'falls back' ,
either because lack of will and purpose in the 'participant' or because common frequency of human species ( shared, social awareness ) does not quite support such frequency level
The society ( frequency ) aspect phenomenon is very important to this in my opinion,
since it essentially forms 'frequency field' where most fit, communicate or are nudged and soft forced to fit and communicate .
This shared 'frequency field' serves multiple purposes for any species and it's livid , fluid intelligence quite like the 'greater ocean' .
It too experiences its sublimation to its own 'oversoul' or 'atmosphere' , now : it may sound funny but the moment I 'd insert the term 'spirit' in here ,
frequency automatically switches between rational to irrational .. and it's not my intention here to lead you that way .
Back to the beginning of the sentence then .. : This shared 'frequency field' serves multiple purposes, it supports and nourishes species awareness , cohesion and communication,
it stores information over much longer periods of time than any individual can entertain on their own ,
it also shields/protects the species from intruders .
Now whether we experience sublimation process ( or any form of 'enlightenment' ) seems to be only relevant with respect to the frequency of the greater whole,
either it can recognise and entertainyour frequency range or not .
It's a long learning curve for all species - mankind - and how much discernment are we able to process on conscious level , in my opinion. We call it 'intelligence' after all , without assigning strict definition to that term , any 'intelligence' depends on discerning abilities and how many 'details' are you able to read and process , globally .
We process much more ( ocean deep ) on subliminal - subconscious levels of consciousness - that's where our 'human potentials' are merely emerging so far ,
there's (sub)conscious processing of that sort on DNA level, on energetic level , on abstract level of maths patterns to the way molecules and particles in you conduct themselves in you .
Whether some people call this jointly a 'soul' , a 'spirit' , spiritual journey and so forth ..these are just names for something most people do not understand quite well .
Future science will but it's still .. long way to go , to become complete .
From what I've seen ( advanced ET technology =wise ) and experienced ( as an entity and observer to human life ) all of the above are biologically and physically explainable phenomena though .
Human science and understanding have long way to go yet ..
if we discussed this say , at the beginning of 1st century A.D. or 10th century .. some 'pundits' would always feel like they have the science 'in their hands' but due to lifes' utmost complexity , and complexity of human situation on this planet ..
there's always more needing to be recognised yet .
:flower:
Agape
17th July 2015, 12:52
Please, if you meditate, could you comment on this. Does, quieting the chatter, lead to increased capacity for happy or high energy feelings? Or is this article claiming something that is not true in an attempt to get more people to meditate????
Hello Aspen , again .. there are many kinds of meditations : all well described in Vedas, the Yoga teachings , even more in Buddhism who sort of 'specialises' in meditation ,
if you say 'to meditate' or 'meditation' in the West people often either 'don't know what it means' or have some kind of uniform idea , or think of quieting thoughts : that's of course, essential to any meditation.
But .. there's much more 'colourful ' mind work in the science and practice of meditation than you imagine .
For example , in Tibetan Buddhism ( and tantra such as Guhyasamaja, Chakrasamvara, the Kalachakra and so and so forth ) there's long ( and arduous for some ) visualisation practise , as part of the 'higher yogas' .
It's very similar ( retrospectively speaking ) to what some mnemonics adepts train in order to be able to remember large amounts of information,
they 'visualise' mansions ( for example ) with rooms , of certain colours and features and then , 'place information' to those rooms .
With help of such visualisation process they claim to be able to retrieve information much faster later , when asked for it , as long as it's attached to 'environments' , grid they built , mentally .
Similarly , you might say ... especially in the past ... old India or Tibet , students could memorise long texts often relying on auditory input - more than on books ( books were not that plentiful as they're now, they were shared , took time to copy by hand etc. ) and could recite them , by heart for the rest of their lives ( if they were good students ).
It is still possible to meet some of those people in India who can recite all the epos of Ramayana by heart for example ( and sometimes , do that for living :))
Within Buddhism itself there are 3 main branches ( schools of thought ) , each with specific array of meditation practices though the 'essentials' and principles are shared in common.
In Theravada ( Hinayana ) traditions thought to be the 'authentic teachings' of Buddha with stress on simplicity and purity of discipline ,
main 2 meditations practised are either 'shamatha' ( stillness ..) and 'vipassana' ( watchfulness , awareness type of meditation ).
These 2 are considered 'meditation basics' in Buddhism , uniting principle to all .
There's of course also 'metta' meditation in Theravada , metta = friendship , loving kindness , it's practised in 'soft way' , or should be ..
in extending your heart to all living beings and meditating on love and friendship to each and all .
It should not/does not produce any such dramatic effects for most Theravada monks or practitioners but then , this largely depends on individual.
In Mahayana Buddhism ( the 'Great Vehicle' Buddhism ) there's more reliance on meditation than in the previous lineage ( vis various 'Zen'= Dhyana= Meditation schools popular through China to Japan and back here in the West ) and there's more intense effort to reach enlightenment by means of diligent meditation practice .
The 'Zen' state of Mind too has been explored neurologically and there's even one type of neurofeedback device based on the principle called 'Roshi' ( google 'Roshi neurofeedback' ) that supposedly works very smart way ..
it reads your 'brainwave' and sends a complimentary /mirror wave back to your brain for processing , thus making ( not you but ..) your brain aware of its processing and brining it back to state of balanced stillness .
Third .. Vajrayana Buddhism ... evolved the largest number of meditations possible, some inherited and inspired by old yogis and siddhas ( adepts ) of India ,
from them several tantric lineages and yoga systems came to being,
one commonly accepted through most Vajrayana lineages are '6 yogas of Naropa' .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Yogas_of_Naropa
These are 'essence of essence' of much larger array of practices and teachings ,
to put some to perspective ,
each tantra ( teaching ) is described in detail in scriptures of its own title and provenance , some thousands of pages long and you need to receive oral instructions ( and initiation, empowerment ) to perform that practice correctly .
So whatever is being taught to people here in the West as presumed meditation practices of Vajrayana category , without these people ever studying the theory and practising step by step , for many years,
are snippets , 'glimpses' to these ancient sciences .
There , under guidance and supervision of your teacher , you can meditate in very special way on anything - powerful emotions such as compassion, even anger ( righteous or 'divine' anger you might say ) , you can meditate on envy or jealousy as a powerful transformatory way to accomplishment , but there .. much caution is needed since much could be also misinterpreted and easily misunderstood
unless done in correct state of mind .
So yes I can imagine ( and experienced myself , and therefor , I warn from going too far with this ) that intense meditation on love and compassion can produce exceptionally challenged and 'moved' states of mind,
it's something I did as well .. since this is everyday part of practice in Tibetan Buddhism no matter what else you do,
the 'balanced ' meditation state ( you'd say anti-dote ) for this practice is meditation on emptiness ( again, it's 'relativity' to be more correct ) and neither 'compassion' or 'relativity' alone can lead to good results, without the other .
Effects I have experienced were more than real , in form of much heightened sensitivity and empathy to living beings , that's both positive and sometimes negative if your feelings go over the edge each time you see someone suffer .
I was ( naturally ) much cooler before though, I'd consider myself ( and think others too ) empathetic creature since I was kid I could pride myself on keeping cool head, was not crying easily or being swayed by emotions.
But what I experienced then was sometimes, almost uncontrollable flow of emotion ..
when I saw TV news here after more than 6 years or so , there were showing one of the massacres they're showing almost every other day anyway,
I felt so much pain, so much 'torture' in heart and broke to tears . I knew it's not 'the way to go' psychologically , and it took me years , still does .. not to let myself being affected by what I see ,
it was a loop of sorts , I'm almost sure I wanted to experience this : it's how people 'feels' . It's very painful or very joyous , in either case it's human emotion.
Can't compare myself to Mathew however since he's as Buddhist monk, most probably 'full fledged human' . His physiological normative is different from mine .
But what it shows .. is the excellence of meditation method , like scientific method .. if practised correctly you get certain type of result .
:heart:
Aspen
17th July 2015, 13:35
Wow, thank you Agape for all the detailed breakdown of the different kinds of Tibetan meditation. I had heard of some of these things but only in passing. You are certainly right that the west only knows snippets. I found myself attracted to the "Metta" meditation in Theravada. I will have to look into it more. Who is Matthew? Is it one of the posters on this thread?
I guess the main form of meditation that I have been practicing a bit is mindfulness. It is becoming accepted within mainstream psychotherapy as an approach for treatment of depression, anxiety, PTSD and dissociation.
I was interested in the description of balance you described, that when you meditate on a powerful emotion such as compassion or anger, that you also balance it by meditating on emptiness. Very interesting and logical!
I think that many people are traumatized by the news. They think they are being desensitized, but I believe that the desensitization is probably a form of dissociation. When one thinks about the BOhdgaya Event and the teaching it brings about the possibility that humans may have come here in a spaceship from a much more peaceful civilization - it seems that we have been traumatized for a long time here on earth.
I wonder if tuning into the high pitched sound as a form of meditation is anything you have ever heard of. I was trying to do it yesterday for about an hour and now today I keep hearing these high pitched sounds all morning.
Aspen
17th July 2015, 13:44
So when you say transformation do you mean evolution or improvement of some kind? Or is the transformation from one state of consciousness to another simply a kind of exploration, we are simply exploring another realm? Like people do when they travel astrally? The youtube video that MrCausal posted also talked about moving into the sound, the high pitched sound, and reaching a horizon "where you will find something phenomenal." This particular meditation where you are allowing the high pitched sounds to become louder and moving into them seems like the kind of thing you were describing Agape. Have you ever used this practise and does it relate to the yoga practices using sound that you described earlier?
I have recently had much louder ringing in the ears than before in my life, but have never consciously tried to meditate on it for any length. I have often wondered what it was, if maybe someone was thinking about me or sending a thought telepathically.
I'm talking /thinking of tangible biological ( in broad sense also physical ) phenomenon and what is actually happening with so called 'consciousness' of any organism,
again, using the analogy of body of water ( ocean ) and its surface ( the edge of awareness ) and what happens on the surface,
practically .
Sublimation happens , water evaporates to satiate the 'bubble' of planetary atmosphere , the surface receives most of the Sun heat ; we all do , else we'd be maximally icy beings on icy planet :bigsmile:
So when we see water evaporating it does not 'disappear' , it fills the atmospheric bubble and can rain on us back later, it's an elementary transformation we observe .. matter changing state from one form of density to another .
Obviously , gas is also a state of matter , so is plasma and many other material states todays physics ( and biology ) did not describe yet . The 'transformation' happens on frequency level so also particle level and any other method you use to describe how/why one form of element changes to another .
From my perspective : the physical pulse ( and other biological markers ) we can currently measure in human beings are merely like scratching the surface,
they're the grossest manifestation of more subtle organism .
From one perspective , you don't perceive the 'subtle' as real .. you even don't see your own self unless offered a 'mirror' on the same frequency .
You think there's 'nothing' beyond the 3D density ( not you .. any disgruntled reader , just drawing a perspective ) .
Couple of things may happen in the ionosphere so also in what we could call 'bio-field' of any living being .
Through the edge of awareness ... may be heightened awareness ( such as in stress states ), accomplished awareness ( closing on big problem or question of lifetime ..as an example ), excited awareness ( great joy, even great sadness though the later is disputable , excitation, bliss ) it's fairly possible to say for example : that electrons and their bounds reach higher excitation state ,
they start to vibrate faster , reach higher level of conscious awareness where you can still perform logical processes ( as opposed /complimentary to level of such awareness you naturally entertain but can't 'operate' consciously on such frequency/level )
your awareness 'manifests' another body = which is who you are in original anyway = that works as long as it is charged enough on that particular frequency/vibration level .
So in fact , any living entity can manifest such 'high excitation state' under conducive circumstances ,
the problem ( of observability ) is that in most people such state happens a/all the time, continuously .. as a form of slow evolutionary process , so that over generations and generations higher state of conscious ( excitation ) thinking process can be reached
b/for short time in 'manifested way' , under circumstances but since we are not accustomed to such level of awareness globally ,
it usually fades and 'falls back' ,
either because lack of will and purpose in the 'participant' or because common frequency of human species ( shared, social awareness ) does not quite support such frequency level
The society ( frequency ) aspect phenomenon is very important to this in my opinion,
since it essentially forms 'frequency field' where most fit, communicate or are nudged and soft forced to fit and communicate .
This shared 'frequency field' serves multiple purposes for any species and it's livid , fluid intelligence quite like the 'greater ocean' .
It too experiences its sublimation to its own 'oversoul' or 'atmosphere' , now : it may sound funny but the moment I 'd insert the term 'spirit' in here ,
frequency automatically switches between rational to irrational .. and it's not my intention here to lead you that way .
Back to the beginning of the sentence then .. : This shared 'frequency field' serves multiple purposes, it supports and nourishes species awareness , cohesion and communication,
it stores information over much longer periods of time than any individual can entertain on their own ,
it also shields/protects the species from intruders .
Now whether we experience sublimation process ( or any form of 'enlightenment' ) seems to be only relevant with respect to the frequency of the greater whole,
either it can recognise and entertainyour frequency range or not .
It's a long learning curve for all species - mankind - and how much discernment are we able to process on conscious level , in my opinion. We call it 'intelligence' after all , without assigning strict definition to that term , any 'intelligence' depends on discerning abilities and how many 'details' are you able to read and process , globally .
We process much more ( ocean deep ) on subliminal - subconscious levels of consciousness - that's where our 'human potentials' are merely emerging so far ,
there's (sub)conscious processing of that sort on DNA level, on energetic level , on abstract level of maths patterns to the way molecules and particles in you conduct themselves in you .
Whether some people call this jointly a 'soul' , a 'spirit' , spiritual journey and so forth ..these are just names for something most people do not understand quite well .
Future science will but it's still .. long way to go , to become complete .
From what I've seen ( advanced ET technology =wise ) and experienced ( as an entity and observer to human life ) all of the above are biologically and physically explainable phenomena though .
Human science and understanding have long way to go yet ..
if we discussed this say , at the beginning of 1st century A.D. or 10th century .. some 'pundits' would always feel like they have the science 'in their hands' but due to lifes' utmost complexity , and complexity of human situation on this planet ..
there's always more needing to be recognised yet .
:flower:
Wow Agape, a lot to digest! Thank you for the fuller explanation of the analogy. I am fascinated by the concept of plasma. Will have to look into it more. Also fascinated by the idea of the collective consciousness and how that it provides a frequency too and provides safety for all of us. The idea that pulse or frequency is only a small sign of the whole of all that it going on is also intriguing. I will have to read those more carefully and reread over the coming days. So, it seems, that everyone is agreed that the bliss state, and joy state are a higher frequency. I wonder what they measure at. So much more to learn . . . in awe.
Aspen
17th July 2015, 18:01
Just found a paper that talks about gamma rays being bliss, joy, etc. but also cautions that when the brain is in beta and gamma at the same time that this is a highly anxious state. The key seems to be having part of the brain in alpha or theta through meditation practices. Apparently those who meditate a great deal have a greater likelihood of more gamma, the kind this is joy (not fear). I wonder when this paper was written? Its by a Phd. http://drjoedispenza.com/files/understanding-brainwaves_white_paper.pdf
Stanford University has also done research involving measuring brainwaves of monks and how it enhances brain function. Here are the 2015 updates http://web.stanford.edu/group/hopes/cgi-bin/hopes_test/meditation-and-hd/
I haven't had time to look through all this but it might provide source of info from which to assess electronic entrainment (good or bad) and the new age mumbo jumbo about ascension. I suspect that the healthy direction is EXPANSION of consciousness and developing those abilities that can't be controlled by electronics and fear porn propaganda!
Selkie
17th July 2015, 18:24
Just found a paper that talks about gamma rays being bliss, joy, etc. but also cautions that when the brain is in beta and gamma at the same time that this is a highly anxious state. The key seems to be having part of the brain in alpha or theta through meditation practices. Apparently those who meditate a great deal have a greater likelihood of more gamma, the kind this is joy (not fear). I wonder when this paper was written? Its by a Phd. http://drjoedispenza.com/files/understanding-brainwaves_white_paper.pdf
Stanford University has also done research involving measuring brainwaves of monks and how it enhances brain function. Here are the 2015 updates http://web.stanford.edu/group/hopes/cgi-bin/hopes_test/meditation-and-hd/
I haven't had time to look through all this but it might provide source of info from which to assess electronic entrainment (good or bad) and the new age mumbo jumbo about ascension. I suspect that the healthy direction is EXPANSION of consciousness and developing those abilities that can't be controlled by electronics and fear porn propaganda!
I just wish these articles would also discuss the dangers of meditation. It will not do to simply say that danger lurks for unguided or untrained meditators, as that clearly is not the case, as I show here
http://thehumanist.com/magazine/september-october-2007/features/can-meditation-be-bad-for-you
The Bhagwan, at his first lecture after the man’s suicide, tried to reassure us by saying the man had already reincarnated as a more enlightened soul. But I was quite upset and remember thinking how strange it was that someone should kill himself after a meditation course. Isn’t meditation something you do to get–at the very least–peace of mind? I wondered whether he might have had a mental illness and perhaps shouldn’t have taken the course in the first place. Even if he had, shouldn’t the meditation have helped? It didn’t occur to me that the meditation itself might have caused a mental imbalance that tipped him over the edge–that meditation could be dangerous for some people. Has such a notion ever appeared in the mainstream media, let alone the myriad New Age magazines?
and here
http://www.suggestibility.org/surprise.php
This was yet another mental reservation "for They didn't tell you at the introductory lectures that unpleasant things may result from the practice of TM? your own good." They didn't want to scare you off which would keep you from gaining the "benefits" of TM. They meant well.
But this is the point at which some people do indeed began to experience significant negative effects from the practice of TM. This is because all of this dissociation turns out not to be a normal or "natural" thing at all.
These negative effects can take the form of lingering dissociation after meditation, or after coming home from a residence course. You may have trouble getting out of that "spacey" condition. In fact, as you increase your TM dosage and frequency you may reach a stage where you never get out of the "spacey" state at all, i.e. you may experience chronic dissociation. Chronic dissociation is the most dangerous effect of TM, and can become very very serious.
TM can also actually significantly increase anxiety in some people. This is a well-known phenomenon called "relaxation induced anxiety."
Another very common negative effect is to have "headaches in meditation". This can happen even doing just "twenty minutes twice a day", but it is especially common during and after periods of toxically increased "dissociation dosage" such as at a residence course.
The negative effects can also take the form of unpleasant physical sensations or involuntary twitching of large muscle groups.
Agape
17th July 2015, 19:51
I wonder if tuning into the high pitched sound as a form of meditation is anything you have ever heard of. I was trying to do it yesterday for about an hour and now today I keep hearing these high pitched sounds all morning.
I think so , yes , I think I've mentioned it earlier in this thread itself where I also spoke of Nada Yoga practice ( the sound yoga ).
According to the Upanishads , the great Vedic treatises on the nature of Self, the Universe and what is it that is called 'reality' in common,
one explanation of the Universe and how it first came to Being is through Om - the AUM - primordial vibration .
Mandukya Upanishad especially states ( on the origins of Universe ) Om is Pranava .
Pranava means pra- nava , an original sound , cosmic voice , it's what many theologians of various faiths like to call 'the voice of god' .
Everything surrounding us Space inclusive is in vibration state we can perceive in many ways , depending on how well you tune your ears .
In Yoga science they say any advanced meditation adept whose energy is even partially awakened can start hearing sounds in their meditation,
they even go far enough to describe you can hear 4 type of sounds :
one similar to sound of swarm of bees
lion roars or eagle squeaks and similar type of sounds
sound of drums and thunderstorms
flute or a song being sang to you
and so forth .
I think, I can 'hear things' sometimes, before I see them . Big and small . I remember when cell phones were still scarce ( the beginning of them in Dharamsala ) so very few opportunists had them and i really did not want one at all for i thought it'd invade my privacy ,
we sat with group of people in open air , between mountains ( there's good noise isolation in every deep valley but of course satellite signal can reach there ) , far enough from closest village and there was friend walking on a path to us ,
could be three quarters a mile of distance which was not anything unusual and we all knew him.
And then i start hearing this sharp high pitch tune in my ear as we sat there and it would not go . I even tried to rub my ear and laughed about it and told others i keep hearing this .
It faded roughly when the friend reached us and in few minutes he pulled this bran new tiny nokia cell phone from his pocket and started to toy with it ,
but it was interesting because it happened on more than one occasion and i am almost certain the noise i heard was tight to the cell phone .
:coffee:
Agape
17th July 2015, 20:24
I just wish these articles would also discuss the dangers of meditation. It will not do to simply say that danger lurks for unguided or untrained meditators, as that clearly is not the case, as I show here
It's fairly complicated subject to discuss in total , I agree . It's very important if people can agree to educate themselves on the subject when they start exploring it .
In my view understanding Vedas or Tibetan Buddhism is impossible without knowing it's base , Sanskrit and Pali which is very close to Sanskrit and native language of Buddha and people of that time.
Sanskrit is predecessor of all Euro-asian language groups and its seedlings , if you can understand Sanskrit you can read Vedas .
It's called sans-krit' , the purified language , it speaks in true , pure and beautiful terms . As opposed to naga-krit' , the urban language that also prevailed in every time .
Both originate in pra'krit' the ancient language once practised by exiled proto-Iranian culture .
The remnants of this culture were also inevitably seeded in India and grew their roots there through maintaining this pure Vedic tradition.
It's teachings are bountiful and plentiful , Truth is One and Sages speak of it Differently .
In order to know Truth , no meditation is required .
However , meditation is not a discipline or an ability to perfect , it's natural, relaxed state of mind , also body , it's when you relax on your sofa in the afternoon and have a light nap .
You can't overdo that but yes , I've heard of some bad cases in America , people who overdid naps . :ROFL:
:heart:
Selkie
17th July 2015, 21:02
I just wish these articles would also discuss the dangers of meditation. It will not do to simply say that danger lurks for unguided or untrained meditators, as that clearly is not the case, as I show here
It's fairly complicated subject to discuss in total , I agree . It's very important if people can agree to educate themselves on the subject when they start exploring it...
I never said that the subject is complicated.
The point of this article and quote
http://thehumanist.com/magazine/september-october-2007/features/can-meditation-be-bad-for-you
The Bhagwan, at his first lecture after the man’s suicide, tried to reassure us by saying the man had already reincarnated as a more enlightened soul. But I was quite upset and remember thinking how strange it was that someone should kill himself after a meditation course. Isn’t meditation something you do to get–at the very least–peace of mind? I wondered whether he might have had a mental illness and perhaps shouldn’t have taken the course in the first place. Even if he had, shouldn’t the meditation have helped? It didn’t occur to me that the meditation itself might have caused a mental imbalance that tipped him over the edge–that meditation could be dangerous for some people. Has such a notion ever appeared in the mainstream media, let alone the myriad New Age magazines?
(of both quotes from the link below, actually)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=979346&viewfull=1#post979346
is that people can and do educate themselves, and even take courses by trained teachers, and they can still be damaged by meditation because the information that they need is swept under the rug.
So it is not that the subject is complicated, because there is nothing complicated about offering balanced information about meditation, which would include the info that it can be damaging. Since meditation can damage some people, it should be required that anyone offering meditation courses should be educated about the dangers it can hold, and be required to inform their clients, so that they do not inadvertently damage their clients, and so the clients can make good decisions for themselves. And the same thing should be required of magazines, internet sites, etc., that deal with meditation.
As a matter of fact, if New Age magazines, meditation teachers, etc., had an ethical bone in their bodies, they would offer that info of their own accord, out of concern for their clients. But they do not. How "high vibe" is that?
greybeard
17th July 2015, 21:29
Meditation is a natural state and what's natural is completely safe.
People make complex that which is simple.
You just get comfortable and close your eyes and be aware, without responding to anything that arises--i.e. thoughts.
For people new to meditation the mind will be quite busy at first but with perseverance over a few weeks it will quieten and you will be at peace.
Fifteen minutes in the morning same again at night will be fine to start.
You can follow the breath --in and out to start with.
With practise the moment the eyes are closed there is relative silence which grows to complete silence and the peace that goes with this stillness of mind.
In time you might spend an hour meditating but that's to much to begin with.
You may well find that your life becomes more peaceful and challenges easier coped with.
You could say your spiritual vibration is being raised by this.
Ramana Maharshi said "You can measure spiritual progress by the degree of quietness of the mind"
Chris
Selkie
17th July 2015, 21:42
...and what's natural is completely safe...
That just isn't so, Chris, and I am sure that you are aware of it, alcohol being natural, too, after all.
Agape
17th July 2015, 22:01
Silkie , vis the article you posted about and above and all seriousness ..
people don't usually kill themselves because of their meditation retreats .
There are millions of people who go in and out of such everyday on this planet .
As a matter of fact : people experience themselves first of all ( and they're fully entitled to do so in numerous ways ) , you could here tell us the number of daredevils and all form of extreme sports adventurists who are getting ready all their lives and get killed in the avalanche , is that surprising to anyone really ?
People have all sorts of discrete , sometimes latent difficulties and mental or even other, more physical conditions that can manifest if you ask them to sit still for a while and observe their minds.
I'm lucky enough that nothing of that sort ever happened when I was a teacher but if you have crowd of people ( potential even) in front of you, be sure at least one or two of them have some mental anguish accumulated in them or frailty that will manifest if you ask them to do what everyone else does .
Meditation really is not 'extreme sport' , comparing meditation to alcohol is really unfitting this forum . I'd have to far enough to say what I think of various 'new age leaders' and their methods though and how much mess was created in name of someones fake spirituality .
And since this extends far beyond original topic of this thread , I won't say more on this right now ,
also time for rest
:angel:
Selkie
17th July 2015, 22:20
...you could here tell us the number of daredevils and all form of extreme sports adventurists who are getting ready all their lives and get killed in the avalanche , is that surprising to anyone really ?
I did not compare meditation with extreme sports. Why are you?
...People have all sorts of discrete , sometimes latent difficulties and mental or even other, more physical conditions that can manifest if you ask them to sit still for a while and observe their minds.
I'm lucky enough that nothing of that sort ever happened when I was a teacher but if you have crowd of people ( potential even) in front of you, be sure at least one or two of them have some mental anguish accumulated in them or frailty that will manifest if you ask them to do what everyone else does .
And when you were a teacher, did you inform your students that there are dangers involved with meditation? Did you even know that there are dangers involved? And yes, you were lucky...and more to the point, your students were lucky...that nothing ever happened to any of them. But the article says that damage can occur to people who have no history of mental illness. But, given that there could be vulnerable people in the crowd, don't you think that peeps should be warned about the known dangers of meditation? Because those dangers are known, or else there would not be articles about them.
...comparing meditation to alcohol is really unfitting this forum .
I did not compare meditation to alcohol. Chris said that anything natural is completely safe,
...what's natural is completely safe.
and I refuted him, based on his own knowledge that that is not so.
...I'd have to far enough to say what I think of various 'new age leaders' and their methods though and how much mess was created in name of someones fake spirituality .
and I am saying the same thing, except peeps are talking about meditation as if it is some sort of sacred cow, not to be critically examined, as if they have some sort of emotional investment in it.
Wind
17th July 2015, 22:27
If there is something you should be wary of, then it's fear itself. The human mind is one hell of a tool, but also quite an obstacle when it comes to attaining peaceful state and liberation. Some people are perhaps afraid to meet themSelves in meditation and just let go. Letting go can be quite hard, because most of our lives we tend to cling to this earthly life so much that we completely forget the meaning of it all. Resistance and control creates friction, the act of letting go will eventually bring peace. That's the way it has been and that's the way it will always be. Our leaders should learn from that and perhaps one day they will.
Agape
17th July 2015, 22:33
Silkie : if you have ever noticed , there are couple of good folks around you here who have many years , GOOD time experience with meditation.
I think you can rise this topic in Spirituality sections for example and MANY will answer you .
My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds,
nor I have the time plus energy to do that .
There are thousands of good books and traditions , and teachers who can provide with reliable guidance and thousands more of others who don't .
You're a seeker to find and test your own results, meditation is not about creating a following or following someone/something because others do that.
It's in essence , anti-self-knowing path . You're your own teacher to find your own way to truth .
This is being someones elses discussion though.
:hand:
My apologies for disturbing you .
Selkie
17th July 2015, 22:37
If there is something you should be wary of, then it's fear itself. The human mind is one hell of a tool, but also quite an obstacle when it comes to attaining peaceful state and liberation. Some people are perhaps afraid to meet themSelves in meditation and just let go. Letting go can be quite hard, because most of our lives we tend to cling to this earthly life so much that we completely forget the meaning of it all. Resistance and control creates friction, the act of letting go will eventually bring peace. That's the way it has been and that's the way it will always be. Our leaders should learn from that and perhaps one day they will.
Wind, that is not so. People do not become damaged from "meeting themselves". They become damaged from what meditation does to their brain.
http://www.lorinroche.com/dangers/homeless.html
The Taboo Against Honesty in Meditation
I don't know why meditation is such a deceptive field, so full of lies. Maybe it is because yoga and meditation come from Hinduism, and Yoga is "by definition" a perfect system, therefore if you get hurt, it's your bad karma. You must have been thinking impure thoughts...
For some reason or set of reasons, there is almost no information about the dangers of meditation. It is taboo to even think about it. Meditation is presented as an omni-beneficial activity. We are in the odd situation that the field that is supposed to be about truth, is presented in a deceptive manner. Discussion of the real obstacles and hazards of meditation is met with denial.
also
http://www.new-synapse.com/aps/wordpress/?p=350
¤=[Post Update]=¤
Silkie : if you have ever noticed , there are couple of good folks around you here who have many years , GOOD time experience with meditation...
Well, of course I noticed, lol. But no one has mentioned that it can cause harm...has been documented to cause harm...and so I mentioned it.
Selkie
17th July 2015, 22:50
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to educate yourself or inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Agape
17th July 2015, 23:07
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to educate yourself or inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Off tangent comment Silkie .
You seem to fly high in your mind to come to tell me such news ...
and you don't know me at all , innocence kills , that's correct.
That's right and that's for goodnight :sleep:
Selkie
17th July 2015, 23:14
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Please can you go inform yourself much better before you ask to discuss meditation with me online, I hate to say that but I dislike arguments of all sorts .
It's you having 'problem with meditation' or more precisely with 'information you found on the web' and no one is going to spend time on convincing you otherwise ,
there are books I recommend to friends who are serious with meditation,
but I seldom do this online, I work with individuals ( if at all ) , not with crowds .
Meditation is very individual matter for every person further you go and yes you show us example how things can go and refuse to be part of your problem here .
I answer your post because I think , it's polite to offer you an explanation for what I'm not answering,
not fitting .
:flower:
Meditation teacher or not, it looks to me like you are the one who needs to inform themselves about meditation, and you just don't want to do it. I just hope that if you are still teaching meditation, that you continue to be lucky, as you said,
...I'm lucky enough that nothing of that sort ever happened when I was a teacher but if you have crowd of people ( potential even) in front of you, be sure at least one or two of them have some mental anguish accumulated in them or frailty that will manifest if you ask them to do what everyone else does .
and none of your students get hurt, since it sounds like you have no intention of educating yourself or informing them.
Agape
17th July 2015, 23:18
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Please can you go inform yourself much better before you ask to discuss meditation with me online, I hate to say that but I dislike arguments of all sorts .
It's you having 'problem with meditation' or more precisely with 'information you found on the web' and no one is going to spend time on convincing you otherwise ,
there are books I recommend to friends who are serious with meditation,
but I seldom do this online, I work with individuals ( if at all ) , not with crowds .
Meditation is very individual matter for every person further you go and yes you show us example how things can go and refuse to be part of your problem here .
I answer your post because I think , it's polite to offer you an explanation for what I'm not answering,
not fitting .
:flower:
Meditation teacher or not, it looks to me like you are the one who needs to inform themselves about meditation, and you just don't want to do it. I just hope that if you are still teaching meditation, that you continue to be lucky, as you said, and none of your students get hurt, since it sounds like you have no intention of educating yourself or informing them.
You seem to be mind controlled :ROFL:
Selkie
17th July 2015, 23:22
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Please can you go inform yourself much better before you ask to discuss meditation with me online, I hate to say that but I dislike arguments of all sorts .
It's you having 'problem with meditation' or more precisely with 'information you found on the web' and no one is going to spend time on convincing you otherwise ,
there are books I recommend to friends who are serious with meditation,
but I seldom do this online, I work with individuals ( if at all ) , not with crowds .
Meditation is very individual matter for every person further you go and yes you show us example how things can go and refuse to be part of your problem here .
I answer your post because I think , it's polite to offer you an explanation for what I'm not answering,
not fitting .
:flower:
Meditation teacher or not, it looks to me like you are the one who needs to inform themselves about meditation, and you just don't want to do it. I just hope that if you are still teaching meditation, that you continue to be lucky, as you said, and none of your students get hurt, since it sounds like you have no intention of educating yourself or informing them.
You seem to be mind controlled :ROFL:
Ah, out comes the ad hominem stuff.
Definition of AD HOMINEM. 1. : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect. 2. : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made.
Agape
17th July 2015, 23:29
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Please can you go inform yourself much better before you ask to discuss meditation with me online, I hate to say that but I dislike arguments of all sorts .
It's you having 'problem with meditation' or more precisely with 'information you found on the web' and no one is going to spend time on convincing you otherwise ,
there are books I recommend to friends who are serious with meditation,
but I seldom do this online, I work with individuals ( if at all ) , not with crowds .
Meditation is very individual matter for every person further you go and yes you show us example how things can go and refuse to be part of your problem here .
I answer your post because I think , it's polite to offer you an explanation for what I'm not answering,
not fitting .
:flower:
Meditation teacher or not, it looks to me like you are the one who needs to inform themselves about meditation, and you just don't want to do it. I just hope that if you are still teaching meditation, that you continue to be lucky, as you said,
...I'm lucky enough that nothing of that sort ever happened when I was a teacher but if you have crowd of people ( potential even) in front of you, be sure at least one or two of them have some mental anguish accumulated in them or frailty that will manifest if you ask them to do what everyone else does .
and none of your students get hurt, since it sounds like you have no intention of educating yourself or informing them.
If you state nonsense how can it be answered ? You just made up a theory from one article and posted it in the middle of discussion about brainwaves, consciousness and meditation ,
and if you're as blatantly simple as you're trying to show here , these are about 10000 years old news Silkie .
Can you get that right ? I don't think so.
:Angel:
Your signature :
"The biggest coward is the man who awakens a woman's love with no intention of loving her." Bob Marley
"Go through them like tissues..." John Lamb Lash to a young man, on the subject of women, Andalucía, 2014.
"Truth is the best cover." John Lamb Lash to me, many times, Andalucia.
"I don't accept anger from women." John Lamb Lash to me, many times, Andalucía.
I AM mind-controlling you..." John Lamb Lash to me, December, 2013, Andalucía.
Please paraphrase .
:ROFL:
Selkie
17th July 2015, 23:43
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Please can you go inform yourself much better before you ask to discuss meditation with me online, I hate to say that but I dislike arguments of all sorts .
It's you having 'problem with meditation' or more precisely with 'information you found on the web' and no one is going to spend time on convincing you otherwise ,
there are books I recommend to friends who are serious with meditation,
but I seldom do this online, I work with individuals ( if at all ) , not with crowds .
Meditation is very individual matter for every person further you go and yes you show us example how things can go and refuse to be part of your problem here .
I answer your post because I think , it's polite to offer you an explanation for what I'm not answering,
not fitting .
:flower:
Meditation teacher or not, it looks to me like you are the one who needs to inform themselves about meditation, and you just don't want to do it. I just hope that if you are still teaching meditation, that you continue to be lucky, as you said,
...I'm lucky enough that nothing of that sort ever happened when I was a teacher but if you have crowd of people ( potential even) in front of you, be sure at least one or two of them have some mental anguish accumulated in them or frailty that will manifest if you ask them to do what everyone else does .
and none of your students get hurt, since it sounds like you have no intention of educating yourself or informing them.
If you state nonsense how can it be answered ? You just made up a theory from one article and posted it in the middle of discussion about brainwaves, consciousness and meditation ,
and if you're as blatantly simple as you're trying to show here , these are about 10000 years old news Silkie .
Can you get that right ? I don't think so.
:Angel:
I hardly made up a theory. I simply posted info about meditation that is unpopular, and that may be threatening to some folks, and that is swept under the rug by the meditation industry. So you are complaining that I have posted information about meditation in a thread that includes discussion and about mediation?
But to answer your question, if I am talking nonsense, you should be able to refute me calmly and rationally, which you seem to be unable to do, therefor this,
You seem to be mind controlled :ROFL:
which is an ad hominem attack.
And so is this,
if you're as blatantly simple as you're trying to show here
Selkie
17th July 2015, 23:56
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Please can you go inform yourself much better before you ask to discuss meditation with me online, I hate to say that but I dislike arguments of all sorts .
It's you having 'problem with meditation' or more precisely with 'information you found on the web' and no one is going to spend time on convincing you otherwise ,
there are books I recommend to friends who are serious with meditation,
but I seldom do this online, I work with individuals ( if at all ) , not with crowds .
Meditation is very individual matter for every person further you go and yes you show us example how things can go and refuse to be part of your problem here .
I answer your post because I think , it's polite to offer you an explanation for what I'm not answering,
not fitting .
:flower:
Meditation teacher or not, it looks to me like you are the one who needs to inform themselves about meditation, and you just don't want to do it. I just hope that if you are still teaching meditation, that you continue to be lucky, as you said,
...I'm lucky enough that nothing of that sort ever happened when I was a teacher but if you have crowd of people ( potential even) in front of you, be sure at least one or two of them have some mental anguish accumulated in them or frailty that will manifest if you ask them to do what everyone else does .
and none of your students get hurt, since it sounds like you have no intention of educating yourself or informing them.
If you state nonsense how can it be answered ? You just made up a theory from one article and posted it in the middle of discussion about brainwaves, consciousness and meditation ,
and if you're as blatantly simple as you're trying to show here , these are about 10000 years old news Silkie .
Can you get that right ? I don't think so.
:Angel:
Your signature :
"The biggest coward is the man who awakens a woman's love with no intention of loving her." Bob Marley
"Go through them like tissues..." John Lamb Lash to a young man, on the subject of women, Andalucía, 2014.
"Truth is the best cover." John Lamb Lash to me, many times, Andalucia.
"I don't accept anger from women." John Lamb Lash to me, many times, Andalucía.
I AM mind-controlling you..." John Lamb Lash to me, December, 2013, Andalucía.
Please paraphrase .
:ROFL:
I did not attack your character or say call you names.
You seem to be mind controlled :ROFL:
if you're as blatantly simple as you're trying to show here
addition
Your signature :
"The biggest coward is the man who awakens a woman's love with no intention of loving her." Bob Marley
"Go through them like tissues..." John Lamb Lash to a young man, on the subject of women, Andalucía, 2014.
"Truth is the best cover." John Lamb Lash to me, many times, Andalucia.
"I don't accept anger from women." John Lamb Lash to me, many times, Andalucía.
I AM mind-controlling you..." John Lamb Lash to me, December, 2013, Andalucía.
Please paraphrase .
:ROFL:
I broke with him in October of 2014 and am no longer under his control, and he knows it.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 00:19
...My point really is ( conversation diversion but needs to be said ) : I do not intend to discuss or teach meditation on these grounds...[
Are you saying that even though now that you know that meditation has been documented to cause harm to some people, that you are not going to educate yourself or inform your students about it, thereby denying them the right to informed choice?
Off tangent comment Silkie .
You seem to fly high in your mind to come to tell me such news ...
and you don't know me at all , innocence kills , that's correct.
That's right and that's for goodnight :sleep:
I don't understand your hostility. I have not been hostile to you. Nor do I understand what you mean by those comments.
addition I may have posted information about meditation that you don't like, but that is hardly a reason to get hostile and call names. I also asked you a direct question about your intentions toward this information vis-à-vis your students. You may not have liked that, either, but that is also no reason to get hostile and call names.
Agape
18th July 2015, 00:55
Please do understand this much : we may come from different cultural backgrounds where our respective knowledge of meditation, and its extend and implications go and it would cover pages and pages of text that would be boring to many people anyway,
much has been written by sages of all ages and yes all known to me have been warned and more will ..
it's like : driving a motorcycle , it's statistically far more dangerous activity yet millions of people do that ,
suppose i don't have driving license how could I possibly discuss with you the perks of motor drive for entertaining discussion ?
So I merely repeat what you brought up is old news , tragedies sometimes do happen on all walks of life and since i've not been present to that incident i can't comment on its individual nature . Albeit , the pace of thread was peaceful and slow , we all have things to do , i am writing this voluntarily and at my own time and energy expense ,
certainly not time for ANY sort of hostility of any kind,
not what you need for your goodnight or good mornings .
I merely informed you that your comments were probably addressed on that respective level to another entity . If that's not clear enough .. i apologise, honestly .
Between us there's no problem . I'm sorry to hear about your break down .
It's purely cultural difference : when you say meditation we mean something entirely else, I'm not and never been part of the 'meditation industry' neither i am supporting it . I perfectly agree on what you mean there is correct
tho
I'm also bound to understand things on my half of hemisphere , thank you for your understanding me.
:heart:
Selkie
18th July 2015, 01:06
Please do understand this much : we may come from different cultural backgrounds where our respective knowledge of meditation, and its extend and implications go and it would cover pages and pages of text that would be boring to many people anyway,
much has been written by sages of all ages and yes all known to me have been warned and more will ..
it's like : driving a motorcycle , it's statistically far more dangerous activity yet millions of people do that ,
suppose i don't have driving license how could I possibly discuss with you the perks of motor drive for entertaining discussion ?
Love and peace to you, too.
So I merely repeat what you brought up is old news , tragedies sometimes do happen on all walks of life and since i've not been present to that incident i can't comment on its individual nature . Albeit , the pace of thread was peaceful and slow , we all have things to do , i am writing this voluntarily and at my own time and energy expense ,
certainly not time for ANY sort of hostility of any kind,
not what you need for your goodnight or good mornings .
I merely informed you that your comments were probably addressed on that respective level to another entity . If that's not clear enough .. i apologise, honestly .
Between us there's no problem . I'm sorry to hear about your break down .
It's purely cultural difference : when you say meditation we mean something entirely else, I'm not and never been part of the 'meditation industry' neither i am supporting it . I perfectly agree on what you mean there is correct
tho
I'm also bound to understand things on my half of hemisphere , thank you for your understanding me.
:heart:
I can see that you are being conciliatory, and I accept, but what I posted about the dark side of meditation is not old news to many, many people, and I would rather anger any number of people than not post it, because people have the right to that information so that they can make fully-informed decisions about what is best for themselves.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 01:12
...your comments were probably addressed on that respective level to another entity...
I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you explain? In a PM perhaps, if you are inclined.
addition Oh, do you mean John Lash? No, I was not addressing him. What I was addressing was the lack of info about the dark side of meditation, and the unthinking, knee-jerk rejection of it, not just by you, but by others, too.
Hey, peeps, don't kill the messenger next time, ok?
Omni
18th July 2015, 03:55
People are so easily divided by beliefs :(
Selkie
18th July 2015, 05:16
People are so easily divided by beliefs :(
Yes, and interestingly, I never said I was against meditation, although some people reacted as if I had. What I said is that I am against the unbalanced way it is presented when the harm it can do is a documented fact. And I would ask people: don't those facts matter? Do people not have the right to all the information, so that they can make the proper decisions for themselves? Should vital information be kept from people to protect the sacred cow of meditation? What in the world is so threatening about those facts, anyway?
Now, people get to reject information if they wish, but they do not get to try to drown out those who would present facts that make them uncomfortable for one reason or another.
So what peeps witnessed here tonight was cognitive dissonance in action, when information I presented clashed with the beliefs of some of those here. And what did some folks do? They tried to silence the messenger, one of them even going so far as to use ad hominem attacks.
greybeard
18th July 2015, 08:45
"Power vs Force--the hidden determinates of human behaviour" by Dr David Hawkins is a book I would recommend.
Within it are explanations of all the levels of consciousness (Vibration) and the effects of the relevant vibration.
A map of consciousness
Higher vibration is not better than--just different from lower vibration.
The human is complex and the mind has parts which may be in harmony or in opposition which is why some have a difficulty in coming to a decision which might satisfy the needs of some parts, though not all.
The late Dr Hawkins was a Psychiatrist of note--having the largest practice in US ----he was open minded and revolutionised Psychiatry.
He was also Enlightened.
On the forum I/we-- tend to quote books/text/videos rather than our own experience---thats ok but an outside authority is not necessarily correct in his her writings.
My personal experience of meditation is, beneficial.relaxing,safe and the effects extend into everyday life in that Im more mature and balanced.
As far as alcohol goes Silkie I was not aware it was a natural substance--whatever I drank was processed in some way.
Alcohol was not the problem it was my reaction to it and with it.
I have an addictive nature/personality Im ok with that as being aware I can channel that into persevering, keeping going, in a single minded way till the "job" is done. It just seems to happen.
Chris
Innocent Warrior
18th July 2015, 09:06
People are so easily divided by beliefs :(
Ya. It would serve us well to be more aware of the great opportunity this offers those who are out to conquer.
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 10:38
Wind, that is not so. People do not become damaged from "meeting themselves". They become damaged from what meditation does to their brain.
Well, of course I noticed, lol. But no one has mentioned that it can cause harm...has been documented to cause harm...and so I mentioned it.
Silkie you are quiite right that meditation can cause harm...but what harm?
I understand, as Agape has given us, that there are many people doing many different things in the name of meditation, but most of those are just training to control the wonderings of the mind...and many have even turned their 'gift' into a way of making money out of tourists and other gaping audiences...no doubt after some effort and time.
The true end goal of meditation is to focus ones mind on some aspect of life...and thus to gain the best knowledge from our trained focus on the subject....and this ability is of use in all facets of life and not only in the pursuit of spiritual insight.
The entire process is concentration–meditation–contemplation–illumination...
During concentration we pay attention to what we are going to meditate about.
During meditation we examine the object of our focus.
During contemplation we absorb that which we have examined.
And if all was done correctly we experience illumination of the subject.
We should not forget however that meditation is usually just a subjective experience...unless we have achieved true emotional or mental objective consciousness...in which case it can be used in emotional telepathy and mind projection.
The dangers of meditation are largely due to a wrong idea of what meditation is... and these people can open their minds to astral influences which can be very destructive to the hold which the person meditating has on his organic brain, etheric envelope and thus body.
This mostly and more easily occurs when we sit in meditation and attempt to blank out our thoughts...which is not meditation...because meditation is about focused attention...
This blanking of the mind has been taught by some as a means to allow 'spiritual' knowledge to flow into the mind...AND...although this is possible... if we ensure the safety of our mindless body...this state can lead to dark forces fooling the ignorant person that he/she has contacted some benevolent 'spirit' or Being...who is now going to tell them all the truth they need.
A blank mind is an invite for a hijacking...like when we leave our car running when we nip out to the store for a Mars bar...:)
We were never supposed to blank out our minds... after all what is our mind for...we are meant to use our minds constructively...so we need to train our minds to focus...just like we teach our children to focus their wondering minds.
Test your mind by seeing how long you can focus on one thing before it starts wondering off into the noise of your life.
Train your mind to meditate...by spending 30min each day at the same time...and focus on anything you like...even a beautiful flower.
Take care
Ray
PS. Of course your can use meditation just as effectively for physical examination.
PSS. And any guru or master or teacher who tells you to blank out your mind should be given a wide berth.
Agape
18th July 2015, 12:31
...your comments were probably addressed on that respective level to another entity...
I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you explain? In a PM perhaps, if you are inclined.
addition Oh, do you mean John Lash? No, I was not addressing him. What I was addressing was the lack of info about the dark side of meditation, and the unthinking, knee-jerk rejection of it, not just by you, but by others, too.
Hey, peeps, don't kill the messenger next time, ok?
I'd suggest again , with best intents , that you open a thread on this important topic ( possibly in either Spirituality section or Conspiracy theory , whichever suits you the best ) , addressing the 'Dangers of Meditation' ( from your news and experiences ) and welcome others to share what they know ,
it's a loaded subject and I believe many will have their say .
I see every post of yours being thanked by Bob ( old time friend who has got to some trouble recently, so 'hi Bob, I hope all is well' :heart: ).
This thread was dedicated more to frequency discussion that's how it rolled to meditation experiences of some , i shared with rather good and innocent motivation here but I'm not willing to debate the topic with you here, much sorry,
it's not the intention of this thread .
It's simply another subject and to enter to a discussion one needs to have intention to do so , first of all.
I am not ( never been) advertising any religions, cults, groups, methods or services, or products , they're not 'mine' .
If that can not be understood , while I've apologised about 3 times from answering or not answering 'question' that does not fit my understanding ,
I ask one of the moderators to kindly delete my posts from this thread ( all of them, best ).
I am not willing to take part in another unspoken PA war or agenda : now , this is NOT towards you Silkie or anyone participating in this thread,
so be so good to practice little restrain ( if can ) and do not answer this .
I'm completely uncertain of what agendas and hostilities are running through heads of some PA members , from top to bottom, unless they tell me ( honest and genuine people CAN talk to each other , usually )
but I can read their reactions , and absence of words where words would be fitting and vice versa .
The summer is hot and tiring for all of us , life is tough but coming to place that makes you feel more like a stranger, mad among mad , psychopath among psychopaths and so forth . , is not really healthy life option .
We can have obviously have some nice discussions here .. till someone who are actually hostile ( or been for long time ) with each other come to play out their emotions .
It's ''interesting'' for such individuals are happy to skip over many meaningful and intelligent posts and prefer to choke themselves on pages of silly chatter .
:cow:
Selkie
18th July 2015, 12:33
Silkie you are quiite right that meditation can cause harm...but what harm?
Do you see the problem with this sentence of yours, Ray? You contradict yourself, because first, you agree that meditation can cause harm, but then you turn around and ask "but what harm?". Well, since you already said that you agree with me, then you, yourself, should be able to tell folks the harm it can causes, otherwise, why would you agree with me?
But in answer to your question, I have posted several links in this thread that expose the dangers of meditation, and so you should peruse my posts, click on those links, and start reading. I am also sure that if you Google "the dangers of meditation" or similar search terms, you will find plenty of links for yourself. I am not going to do your leg-work for you, since I already provided plenty of evidence right here, on this thread, if you would but check.
The dangers of meditation are largely due to a wrong idea of what meditation is...
All methods of meditation involve the dissolution of thought, a blank mind.
http://izquotes.com/quote/191179
“Meditation is the dissolution of thoughts in Eternal awareness or Pure consciousness without objectification, knowing without thinking, merging finitude in infinity.”
―Swami Sivananda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivananda_Saraswati
http://www.freemeditation.com/meditation-basics/
(this site did not allow me to copy and paste)
http://www.krishnamurtiaustralia.org/articles/meditation%201.htm
Meditation really is a complete emptying of the mind
So according to two highly regarded masters, mediation is not concentration or "mindfulness" or anything else: it is, quite simply, the cessation of all thought.
...Test your mind by seeing how long you can focus on one thing before it starts wondering off into the noise of your life.
As you can see from this chart, below, the brainwaves of meditation are actually below that of the pre-sleep state....theta, the realm of dreams...below alpha, whereas the brainwaves of concentration, or "focus" are in the beta range.
http://betabrainwave.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/brain-waves.gif
So it looks like it is you, and possibly others, who has a mistaken idea of what meditation actually is.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 12:44
.. till someone who are actually hostile ( or been for long time ) with each other come to play out their emotions...
Agape, the only person to show hostility and who let their emotions run away with them was you. I know that you apologized, and I accepted your apology, but that does not mean that you did not do what you did.
...It's ''interesting'' for such individuals are happy to skip over many meaningful and intelligent posts and prefer to choke themselves on pages of silly chatter .
Posting info and links about the dark side of meditation, so that peeps can make good decisions for themselves, is hardly what I would call "silly chatter".
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 12:53
Silkie you are quiite right that meditation can cause harm...but what harm?
Do you see the problem with this sentence of yours, Ray? You contradict yourself, because first, you agree that meditation can cause harm, but then you turn around and ask "but what harm?". Well, since you already said that you agree with me, then you, yourself, should be able to tell folks the harm it can causes, otherwise, why would you agree with me?
If you read the post completely...you would have realised that the "but what harm?" was a lead in into me giving my opinion about the harm.
Anyone with a brain can pick out a sentence out of context and understand it differently to what it was intended...so be real.
So I certainly did not contradict myself...you are trying to find fault with anything that people say so you can appear as if you are the tank of knowledge we all came to Avalon to discover...
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 13:04
All methods of meditation involve the dissolution of thought, a blank mind.
Incorrect...you rely too much on people who don't know the truth of the matter, and without enough meditation experience yourself personally.
You actually know very little other than what you read about.
Go out and get some personal experience and stop relying on belief because when you start to do that you will realise how wrong some people are who write the fiction you rely on as facts.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 13:33
All methods of meditation involve the dissolution of thought, a blank mind.
Incorrect...you rely too much on people who don't know the truth of the matter, and without enough meditation experience yourself personally.
You actually know very little other than what you read about.
Go out and get some personal experience and stop relying on belief because when you start to do that you will realise how wrong some people are who write the fiction you rely on as facts.
So, then, I guess that J. Krishnamurti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti
doesn't know what he is talking about? There are many millions of people around the globe who would disagree with you.
Or Swami Vivekananda, either, I suppose? Tens of thousands, or even millions, would disagree with you there, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivananda_Saraswati
And actually, I have plenty of experience with meditation. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that it is true that mediation is the cessation of all thought. I have been there. I lived in that state most days for nearly two years. So I am not speaking from belief at all.
Because of the alacrity with which you answered my post, am I correct in assuming that you did not visit the links I provide which document the dangers of meditation?
Selkie
18th July 2015, 13:40
Silkie you are quiite right that meditation can cause harm...but what harm?
Do you see the problem with this sentence of yours, Ray? You contradict yourself, because first, you agree that meditation can cause harm, but then you turn around and ask "but what harm?". Well, since you already said that you agree with me, then you, yourself, should be able to tell folks the harm it can causes, otherwise, why would you agree with me?
If you read the post completely...you would have realised that the "but what harm?" was a lead in into me giving my opinion about the harm....
Ray, I read the post completely, and I did not take the sentence out of context. You simply contradicted yourself. The rest of your post has nothing to do with the first sentence, as anyone can see when they read it.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=979571&viewfull=1#post979571
Agape
18th July 2015, 13:49
All methods of meditation involve the dissolution of thought, a blank mind.
Incorrect...you rely too much on people who don't know the truth of the matter, and without enough meditation experience yourself personally.
You actually know very little other than what you read about.
Go out and get some personal experience and stop relying on belief because when you start to do that you will realise how wrong some people are who write the fiction you rely on as facts.
So, then, I guess that J. Krishnamurti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti
doesn't know what he is talking about? There are many millions of people around the globe who would disagree with you.
Or Swami Vivekananda, either, I suppose? Tens of thousands, or even millions, would disagree with you there, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivananda_Saraswati
And actually, I have plenty of experience with meditation. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that it is true that mediation is the cessation of all thought. I have been there. I lived in that state most days for nearly two years. So I am not speaking from belief at all.
Because of the alacrity with which you answered my post, am I correct in assuming that you did not visit the links I provide which document the dangers of meditation?
That's why there's such a thing as meditation on love&compassion, prayers , if you're genuine seeker you ask after the meaning
many people get stuck somewhere on their path, some 'do' drugs, others 'do' art , others do meditation for lifetime .
In Tibetan Buddhist tradition talking of emptiness ( thought dissolution ) or advanced stages of meditation in front of unripe audience or arguing about such sacred topics
or compromising someones sanity in open etc etc . are considered break of your ethical vows .
So I wish to apologise for 4th time .. for adding to your mess here , no hostility that I'd notice
:angel:
Selkie
18th July 2015, 13:59
...Higher vibration is not better than--just different from lower vibration.
I agree with this completely.
...My personal experience of meditation is, beneficial.relaxing,safe and the effects extend into everyday life in that Im more mature and balanced.
I happy for you about this, Chris. I am happy for everyone who has had good experiences with meditation. But I am concerned for the people who have not, and who have been harmed. All of the good experiences that billions of people have had with meditation must not be used to whitewash the dangers of it. For instance, most people can drink alcohol with no problem, but it would be dishonest to use that fact to whitewash the harm it can cause, wouldn't you agree? How would you feel if, knowing from personal experience that alcohol can be very harmful to some people, that fact was covered up? You wouldn't like it, would you?
...As far as alcohol goes Silkie I was not aware it was a natural substance--whatever I drank was processed in some way.
Alcohol was not the problem it was my reaction to it and with it.
I have an addictive nature/personality Im ok with that as being aware I can channel
Actually, it is a combination of both. The reason I say that is because alcohol is a toxin, and it actually does not belong inside the human body. Some of us handle that toxin better than others, and those who do not handle it well owe it to themselves to stay away from it, but make no mistake, it is a toxin...a very nasty one.
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 14:00
Ray, I read the post completely, and I did not take the sentence out of context. You simply contradicted yourself. The rest of your post has nothing to do with the first sentence, as anyone can see when they read it.
Silkie you are quiite right that meditation can cause harm...but what harm?
The dangers of meditation are largely due to a wrong idea of what meditation is... and these people can open their minds to astral influences which can be very destructive to the hold which the person meditating has on his organic brain, etheric envelope and thus body.
This mostly and more easily occurs when we sit in meditation and attempt to blank out our thoughts...which is not meditation...because meditation is about focused attention...
This blanking of the mind has been taught by some as a means to allow 'spiritual' knowledge to flow into the mind...AND...although this is possible... if we ensure the safety of our mindless body...this state can lead to dark forces fooling the ignorant person that he/she has contacted some benevolent 'spirit' or Being...who is now going to tell them all the truth they need.
A blank mind is an invite for a hijacking...like when we leave our car running when we nip out to the store for a Mars bar...:)
We were never supposed to blank out our minds... after all what is our mind for...we are meant to use our minds constructively...so we need to train our minds to focus...just like we teach our children to focus their wondering minds.
You should read more carefully...this has everything to do with the dangers of meditation.
And by the way you quoted the wrong post.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 14:08
...That's why there's such a thing as meditation on love&compassion, prayers , if you're genuine seeker you ask after the meaning...
I am glad that you have defined your terms :) but according to tradition, that is not "true" meditation. From what I have read, that form of "meditation" was introduced because most people find it very difficult to empty their minds. So it was a marketing ploy. The kind of "meditation", where you focus you mind, is much safer than traditional meditation. But by definition, since focused attention resides in the beta range, it is not true meditation, which lies in the theta range, below alpha.
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 14:09
So, then, I guess that J. Krishnamurti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti
doesn't know what he is talking about? There are many millions of people around the globe who would disagree with you.
Or Swami Vivekananda, either, I suppose? Tens of thousands, or even millions, would disagree with you there, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivananda_Saraswati
And actually, I have plenty of experience with meditation. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that it is true that mediation is the cessation of all thought. I have been there. I lived in that state most days for nearly two years. So I am not speaking from belief at all.
Because of the alacrity with which you answered my post, am I correct in assuming that you did not visit the links I provide which document the dangers of meditation?
You are quite right I never read what you linked because it says nothing about the dangers of meditation.
Both of these experts which you quoted have never got further than the astral planes in their life....
Krishnamurti is a warning example of the risks involved in the forced cultivation of latent
qualities. Everything he wrote during the years of his training was the memorized lessons of
the school-boy. That day in Ommen, when asked whether he was the new world teacher, he
affirmed this, he severed the connection with the planetary hierarchy unconsciously but
definitively. His later production indicates that he lapsed to the stage of the mystic, and from
there to life-blind fictitiousness, rather reminiscent of Zen Buddhism, according to which one
experiences “true reality” by emptying one’s consciousness of all its content acquired
throughout one’s incarnations. In that procedure one is supposed to attain to nirvana or
annihilation. Is there any crazy idea that people will not swallow?
Krishnamurti was one of the many cases that only the esoterician can explain. Like all
“false prophets” he succeeded in misleading many of those all too many people who believe
they know and comprehend but do not understand.
Why don't you give us you version of the dangers of meditation rather than quoting people who are basically ignorant of esoteric truths.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 14:16
Ray, I read the post completely, and I did not take the sentence out of context. You simply contradicted yourself. The rest of your post has nothing to do with the first sentence, as anyone can see when they read it.
Silkie you are quiite right that meditation can cause harm...but what harm?
The dangers of meditation are largely due to a wrong idea of what meditation is... and these people can open their minds to astral influences which can be very destructive to the hold which the person meditating has on his organic brain, etheric envelope and thus body.
This mostly and more easily occurs when we sit in meditation and attempt to blank out our thoughts...which is not meditation...because meditation is about focused attention...
This blanking of the mind has been taught by some as a means to allow 'spiritual' knowledge to flow into the mind...AND...although this is possible... if we ensure the safety of our mindless body...this state can lead to dark forces fooling the ignorant person that he/she has contacted some benevolent 'spirit' or Being...who is now going to tell them all the truth they need.
A blank mind is an invite for a hijacking...like when we leave our car running when we nip out to the store for a Mars bar...:)
We were never supposed to blank out our minds... after all what is our mind for...we are meant to use our minds constructively...so we need to train our minds to focus...just like we teach our children to focus their wondering minds.
You should read more carefully...this has everything to do with the dangers of meditation.
And by the way you quoted the wrong post.
I read that, Ray, and the dangers of meditation (lets call it "traditional meditation" or "true meditation") have nothing to do with the astral, and everything to do with what blanking you mind out very often, or for long periods of time, does to the brain. By definition, focused attention meditation cannot be traditional, or true, meditation because during it, the brain is in the beta range...in the range of everyday consciousness. Traditional, or true, meditation takes the brainwaves down into the theta range, the realm of sleep and dreams. The human brain is not meant to spend too much time in the theta range; it is dangerous, and can lead to chronic dissociation and a host of other harms, which have been documented, and which I provided links to elsewhere in this thread.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 14:33
So, then, I guess that J. Krishnamurti
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti
doesn't know what he is talking about? There are many millions of people around the globe who would disagree with you.
Or Swami Vivekananda, either, I suppose? Tens of thousands, or even millions, would disagree with you there, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sivananda_Saraswati
And actually, I have plenty of experience with meditation. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that it is true that mediation is the cessation of all thought. I have been there. I lived in that state most days for nearly two years. So I am not speaking from belief at all.
Because of the alacrity with which you answered my post, am I correct in assuming that you did not visit the links I provide which document the dangers of meditation?
You are quite right I never read what you linked because it says nothing about the dangers of meditation.
Both of these experts which you quoted have never got further than the astral planes in their life....
Krishnamurti is a warning example of the risks involved in the forced cultivation of latent
qualities. Everything he wrote during the years of his training was the memorized lessons of
the school-boy. That day in Ommen, when asked whether he was the new world teacher, he
affirmed this, he severed the connection with the planetary hierarchy unconsciously but
definitively. His later production indicates that he lapsed to the stage of the mystic, and from
there to life-blind fictitiousness, rather reminiscent of Zen Buddhism, according to which one
experiences “true reality” by emptying one’s consciousness of all its content acquired
throughout one’s incarnations. In that procedure one is supposed to attain to nirvana or
annihilation. Is there any crazy idea that people will not swallow?
Krishnamurti was one of the many cases that only the esoterician can explain. Like all
“false prophets” he succeeded in misleading many of those all too many people who believe
they know and comprehend but do not understand.
Why don't you give us you version of the dangers of meditation rather than quoting people who are basically ignorant of esoteric truths.
Ray, I have provided plenty of links to the dangers of meditation through out this thread. Simply go to the posts that have them and start reading. I have also talked about some of the damage it did to me elsewhere in this thread. So again, just go to my posts and start reading.
His later production indicates that he lapsed to the stage of the mystic, and from
there to life-blind fictitiousness, rather reminiscent of Zen Buddhism, according to which one
experiences “true reality” by emptying one’s consciousness of all its content acquired
throughout one’s incarnations. In that procedure one is supposed to attain to nirvana or
annihilation. Is there any crazy idea that people will not swallow?
I agree that it is a crazy thing to do! That is why I have been saying that it is dangerous! And the fact remains that that is exactly what traditional meditation tells people to do, and it is still the method that a lot of people teach and practice. And it is also a fact that the modern, "focused" meditation is not true meditation at all. True meditation...even though it can be harmful...takes the brain down into the theta range. "Focused" meditation does not.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 14:56
...That's why there's such a thing as meditation on love&compassion, prayers , if you're genuine seeker you ask after the meaning:
To meditate "on" something is to have thoughts. If you are having thoughts, then by definition you are not meditating because you are not in the theta range of brainwaves.
It also explains why that monk went into gamma, which is above beta...he was concentrating (beta/gamma)....he was not meditating (theta). He was concentrating on bliss, so naturally, eventually he felt bliss.**
So, somewhere along the line, someone (I don't mean Agape or Ray) switched the meaning of what it means to meditate, and the result is a morass of confusion.
**As an aside, I wonder if people go into gamma sometimes when they have a sexual orgasm?
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 14:59
And it is also a fact that the modern, "focused" meditation is not true meditation at all. True meditation...even though it can be harmful...takes the brain down into the theta range. "Focused" meditation does not.
Focused meditation is not a modern thing it was the way before all the gurus you quote fictionalized it...and you are too caught up in the part the body plays in it...which is nothing...meditation is a mind exercise and your constant referencing to the brain wave frequencies is merely an effect of the mind...not the other way around...
Try meditating on this and use your logic...
The brain is not the Self...The Self is that which lives on after the brain is dead...The Self controls the brain...Anything the Self does changes the brain wave frequencies...the brain has no way of influencing the Self.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 15:07
The brain is not the Self...The Self is that which lives on after the brain is dead...The Self controls the brain...Anything the Self does changes the brain wave frequencies...the brain has no way of influencing the Self.
Those are religious beliefs, Ray.
Jake
18th July 2015, 15:10
The Monroe Institute, in Virginia did electro-mapping experiments with monks, nuns, etc,, in ongoing efforts to refine the hemi-sync technology developed at Monroe Labs. (Yes, they are always careful to point out potential pitfalls and dangers with any meditative effort..)
They would have them meditate whilst many electronic leads would record brainwave patterns and information... The information was then incorporated into to 'tones' that play during hemi-sync,, and were able to recreate the same specific meditative state as the monk or nun!!
They take one tone and isolate it in one ear, and a different tone in the other ear (just out of tune with each other) and when the two hemispheres of the brain adjust and merge to create a single tone,, hemisphere synchronization has occurred within the context of these experiments..
As you can imagine,, it is a bit controversial in the same ways we are discussing here. It can be dangerous! We are talking mild mental state reprogramming via electronic means,, and the implications are scary... If one is careful, properly informed and responsible,, (which is how we should approach meditation anyways) hemi-sync is harmless... a double edge sword...
A strobe light is perfectly harmless.. But you can't tell that to an epileptic person!
If one know themselves then they can NO , themselves... lol...
I am not classically trained in meditation.. I had to learn to quiet my mind to get the energy body/OBE stuff under control... Meditative states are natural,, and ignoring natural process is degenerative.
If I don't quiet my mind before an OBE then ig is chaotic, dark, slow, muddy, lots of snags etc..
If one thinks that meditation is dangerous, then one should not do it,, maybe?
I would say that a neverending chaotic stream of monkey chatter and random repeating thoughts is much more dangerous than a clear mind...
I sing a different tune when it comes to energy work and energy body stimulation,, especially direct work with primary energy centers/chakras... Special care and precautions should be first and foremost..
Meditation and controlled breathing are perfectly natural and healthy!
I learned to meditate naturally,, then I read about it in a book... lol...
Jehovas witness once threw up his hands in anger because I told him I meditate... lol... Maybe the devil sneaks in? Lol...
Meditation is a platform for more sophisticated mental states. In these endeavors, precautions should be taken and great care given to any experimentation.
Clearing ones mind of monkey chatter is dangerous??? That's a new one on me..
cheers
jake
Selkie
18th July 2015, 15:16
...Clearing ones mind of monkey chatter is dangerous???
Of course it is not dangerous. I never said that it was. But that is not what I have been talking about, and it is not what I have documented with links and my own personal experience. I am talking about deep mind-emptying, and I think that everybody knows that, and so why they keep arguing with me about it, I do not know.
p.s. in the kind of meditation I am talking about, one's mind is not simply clear. It is empty, just like traditional meditation says it is.
Jake
18th July 2015, 15:22
I can't do quotes as readily on this tablet, so please forgive me..
did you not liken meditating unto drinking alcohol with regards DANGER?
Of course it is not dangerous. I never said that it was.
Then I missed something, forgive me...
Jake
Finefeather
18th July 2015, 15:25
The brain is not the Self...The Self is that which lives on after the brain is dead...The Self controls the brain...Anything the Self does changes the brain wave frequencies...the brain has no way of influencing the Self.
Those are religious beliefs, Ray.
Even if you think they are religious beliefs...which they are not...it still indicates a preponderance to what's out there...instead of been trapped in a physically controlled set of beliefs.
There is nothing more that the dark anti-evolutionary forces want more than to keep you in their zone of perpetual indoctrination.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 15:28
I can't do quotes as readily on this tablet, so please forgive me..
did you not liken meditating unto drinking alcohol with regards DANGER?
Jake
Yes...the kind of deep mind-emptying meditation I have been taking great pains to define and document over and over again, throughout this thread. I cannot understand how people can still not know to what I am referring. Deep, empty-mind meditation can be dangerous. I have documented that over and over again, with links and with my own, personal experience.
¤=[Post Update]=¤
The brain is not the Self...The Self is that which lives on after the brain is dead...The Self controls the brain...Anything the Self does changes the brain wave frequencies...the brain has no way of influencing the Self.
Those are religious beliefs, Ray.
Even if you think they are religious beliefs...which they are not...it still indicates a preponderance to what's out there...instead of been trapped in a physically controlled set of beliefs.
There is nothing more that the dark anti-evolutionary forces want more than to keep you in their zone of perpetual indoctrination.
Thank you for your concern, Ray.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 15:33
I can't do quotes as readily on this tablet, so please forgive me..
did you not liken meditating unto drinking alcohol with regards DANGER?
Of course it is not dangerous. I never said that it was.
Then I missed something, forgive me...
Jake
No problem.
p.s. this forum has really nice software.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 15:40
..and you are too caught up in the part the body plays in it....
I will decide for myself what "too caught up in the part the body plays in it" is. I have not said that you are not paying enough attention to the role the body plays in things, have I?
Jake
18th July 2015, 16:00
My goodness,,,,,,
I will decide for myself what "too caught up in the part the body plays in it" is.
likewise,, folks can judge for themselves the dangers of meditation... my o my...
id never suggest someone take up drinking to help solve problems... but I have and will continue to suggest meditation...
jake
Selkie
18th July 2015, 16:15
My goodness,,,,,,
I will decide for myself what "too caught up in the part the body plays in it" is.
likewise,, folks can judge for themselves the dangers of meditation... my o my...
id never suggest someone take up drinking to help solve problems... but I have and will continue to suggest meditation...
jake
Yes, and so would I, as long as I specify to them that I do not mean the empty-mind kind that takes peeps into theta rhythm too much.
Carmody
18th July 2015, 16:22
There is also the point that intelligence, or a rise into knowing, etc... cannot be dumbed down.
One must make the attempt, be the attempt to rises into it. Anyone or anything that proposes otherwise is full of it,and attempting a con, or is illiterate, or some derivation thereof.
Work for it, walk away, lie to one's self, whatever the case may be.
Along the way there will be all beauty possible and all pain that is possible. All manners of love, and beauty and all manners of horror and pain... that with both stretch and defy, nay... break your capacity to comprehend. That is the nature of change and growth.
Deal with it, get on with it, or stay where one is.
No free rides.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 16:33
p.s. to everybody, I also know from personal experience that it is totally possible to empty-mind meditate with your eyes open, because that is what I did. What happens is that you see what is in front of you, but you have no thoughts about it. You have no thoughts about anything. The mind truly becomes empty. And in that state, you start to see all kinds of things. I did not see any scary or dangerous things. I mainly saw telluric currents and earth energy. It actually looks like this
https://41.media.tumblr.com/cd6535a0f5c952864f91c4a50209f57b/tumblr_inline_nq4cy3UNyz1skc9nk_540.jpg
I also see this, even now,
http://optics.nuigalway.ie/people/alfredo/tear_web_figure_1.jpg
also this,
http://www.themandala.co.il/vault/images/%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%94%20%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%AA.png
and this, below, only what I see is translucent white, and not yellow,
http://www.rennes-le-chateau.tv/back/images_article/2203112016061111.jpg
I don't talk about it, much.
And I am still struggling with after-effects, like chronic dissociation and memory problems.
addition Those things, with the exception of the telluric currents, are easier for me to see now than they were when I was in Spain. I just get still, and I see them. I see the concentric circles at night, and the water-pond drop and Fibonacci double spiral during the day. Just for clarification.
Jake
18th July 2015, 18:34
Agreed with the eyes wide open scenario,,, there are quite a number of different meditative approaches. Some will be more natural than others for different people. It took me half a lifetime of esoteric searching before I discovered something about me that was very basic and quite pragmatic. Simply put,, I drop into trance very easily and seamlessly... In fact, I've had sleep studies done and verified it with medical professionals. Thus the natural tendancy for sleep paralysis etc...
When I meditate, I only do it for short periods. I WILL drop into trance quickly! Most folks cannot drop into trance, or they have to work at it.. I do not,, quite the opposite, I must -ride my brake- so to speak.. I do any energy work Separate from meditating for the same reasons.. Simple energetic flow is amplified by how deep a trance state one is in,, and these energetic states can be intense, (to say the least).
I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of OBEs... In the meantime, I was careful to document (for myself) the process,,, In doing so, I was able to get ahold of things starting with simple meditation.. it is all quite pragmatic and natural, and meditation be a platform for this type of discovery! The only real dangers are our own ignorance of it...
ie,, one who endeavors to know themselves,, does not walk in ignorance, , and has removed danger from their path....
That is not to say that this process cannot be hijacked by degenerate bastards with high technology. :(:(
I think I have categorically agreed and disagreed with everyone here! Lol...
Silkie,, I promise to take the time to read the articles you linked! :) Meditation is a tool... Though once one clears the mind and gently observes,, it DOES beg the question, -who is doin the observing?- :)
Self? Dunno,, Someone, though... :)
Jake
Selkie
18th July 2015, 19:06
Agreed with the eyes wide open scenario,,, there are quite a number of different meditative approaches. Some will be more natural than others for different people. It took me half a lifetime of esoteric searching before I discovered something about me that was very basic and quite pragmatic. Simply put,, I drop into trance very easily and seamlessly... In fact, I've had sleep studies done and verified it with medical professionals. Thus the natural tendancy for sleep paralysis etc...
When I meditate, I only do it for short periods. I WILL drop into trance quickly! Most folks cannot drop into trance, or they have to work at it.. I do not,, quite the opposite, I must -ride my brake- so to speak.. I do any energy work Separate from meditating for the same reasons.. Simple energetic flow is amplified by how deep a trance state one is in,, and these energetic states can be intense, (to say the least).
I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of OBEs... In the meantime, I was careful to document (for myself) the process,,, In doing so, I was able to get ahold of things starting with simple meditation.. it is all quite pragmatic and natural, and meditation be a platform for this type of discovery! The only real dangers are our own ignorance of it...
ie,, one who endeavors to know themselves,, does not walk in ignorance, , and has removed danger from their path....
That is not to say that this process cannot be hijacked by degenerate bastards with high technology. :(:(
I think I have categorically agreed and disagreed with everyone here! Lol...
Silkie,, I promise to take the time to read the articles you linked! :) Meditation is a tool... Though once one clears the mind and gently observes,, it DOES beg the question, -who is doin the observing?- :)
Self? Dunno,, Someone, though... :)
Jake
Thanks, Jake :)
I did not know that I was meditating. I was living in a Spanish half-ruin with no electricity, and had only a track phone. The half-ruin was intensely romantic...my house was last house at the very top of the southern-most, south-facing valley in Spain, in Andalucía, near the town of Gaucin. I could see Gibraltar and the Mediterranean from where I was, and when the weather was right, I could smell Africa. I was surrounded by olive trees and carob trees and sheep and goats and the black pigs and griffon vultures. I loved it so much. But he was abusing me, and I was very isolated...in fact, he was using social isolation to try to break me, although I did not know that at the time. And I started to do this "thing". I did not know what it was. I would just go still. Because I loved it, and him, so much and I did not want to leave, and that was my way of enduring the isolation and abuse. Before that, I was isolated, too, but not so badly. Before I moved into the half-ruin, I had internet as well as my phone. So I lived in that half-ruin for 7 months. I learned to cook by candle light, and I saw things (natural things) that I will never forget, like the vultures, which used to perch in my trees.
But my memory has gone to complete ****, and I find it very hard to focus. I just hope that the after-effects go away eventually. I am working with a very wonderful therapist, who knows his stuff about cults and psychopaths. So when I talk about this stuff, I am not talking from an armchair. And I am not talking about stuff I have only read about.
greybeard
18th July 2015, 19:26
Silkie I am absolutely convinced that your only aim is to help to prevent people from being hurt.
However you seem to be the opposition party--picking holes in what others post.
For my self I don't mind you being very correct with what I post.
Im not that articulate these days anyway.
Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water---lots of good spiritual "teachers", pointers to the Truth out there.
With respect you seem to be a bit blanket in your statements at times.
Agree that open eyed meditation is effective as is walking about meditation.
I just become aware that Im not doing the walking--its happening all by itself, as are many other things.
For me spirituality has become very simple.
Chris
Selkie
18th July 2015, 19:44
Silkie I am absolutely convinced that your only aim is to help to prevent people from being hurt.
However you seem to be the opposition party--picking holes in what others post.
For my self I don't mind you being very correct with what I post.
Im not that articulate these days anyway.
Just don't throw the baby out with the bath water---lots of good spiritual "teachers", pointers to the Truth out there.
With respect you seem to be a bit blanket in your statements at times.
Agree that open eyed meditation is effective as is walking about meditation.
I just become aware that Im not doing the walking--its happening all by itself, as are many other things.
For me spirituality has become very simple.
Chris
I have said several times that I am not against meditation, and I specifically told you that I am happy for those who have benefitted from meditation. I have also specified, repeatedly, exactly what kind of meditation I am talking about. If that isn't NOT throwing the baby out with the bathwater, then I do not know what is.
p.s. I could not care less about being the "opposition party", nor do I always play that role. But sometimes someone has to provide balance, and if I did not post what I know about the dangers of meditation, it would be totally remiss of me.
Nor do I "pick holes" in other's posts. Those holes are already there. I only point them out.
Flash
18th July 2015, 20:20
Pointing holes in other posts and only pointing the holes, IS picking on holes.
Chosing to be THE "opposition party" Under the pretext of giving oneself the role of providing balance IS being oppositional. Nobody asked for that. Then comes the dogmatism and stiffiness.
And this is all thread I have seen you in Silkie. YOU becoming the CENTER of attention, by almost ONLY pointing holes, BEING the opposition party, in a dogmatic way, and bringing little information altogether (but telling us you have experienced it, whatever you mention or we mention - ex: meditation, when it is obvious you did not train yourself into it, ever).
The thread is ALL around and ABOUT YOU at the present time, HERE, at present, everybody answering YOUR comments.
If there is any hole here, it seems to be either the craving ATTENTION SEEKER, or worst, the action of a troll.
And then, you offer the olive branch to some by going on pm, while refusing the olive branch of others, I Wonder on which premises.
If you want to play the "pointing" or finding holes in others posts, it would be very easy to do it with yours. But the, you would accuse the doer of harassment.
I am not, as Greybeard, convinced your doing what your are doing for the good of all.
Now, a reminder of what a troll' behavior is, for those who either have never read it or do not see it in action, when it happens:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416#post979416
There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:
1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
2) It's never too late to call out a troll. Even after you are five or more responses into the thread when you finally realized that you've been suckered, you may be incline to stick with it out of some misplaced pride or anger. Don't. You can't win debating a troll. All you can do is lower yourself to their level.
Tools for trolls
#1) Name-calling and ridicule: That doesn't mean just calling people names. The objective is to goad other people in the debate to start name-calling. That means use baseless caricatures and stereotypes, generally directed at the author, to get an emotional response. Appeal to people's prejudices and fears.
#2) Play Dumb: You are immune to facts, and all news sources are suspect. Even common sense logic is to be questioned.
#3) Demand complete and fool-proof solutions to the problems: How can you bother other people with these problems unless you also have the solutions? And not just any solutions, but solutions that have been scientifically tested and work. What? You aren't an expert in the field? Then why should we care what you say? This method is most effective when the proof you demand is impossible.
#4) Build and Destroy a Strawman: Create the elements of your opponents arguments, as you define them, and then tear them down. [This is one of my favorites]
#5) When in doubt, declare victory!: You have no idea what the debate is actually about, and all your other debating methods have failed. So why no celebrate? After all, it's all about you.
#6) It's hopeless, so why try?: Nothing can ever change. We are all doomed. The powers-that-be will always win. [This appears to be a recent favorite on the internet, and obviously the most useful for maintaining the status quo]
#7) It's old news: Never mind that the newspapers seem to care for some reason, anyone who's been paying attention had to know that this has been going on forever. [This is related to #6 and #4]
#8) Suggest extreme solutions: The government did something wrong? Then let's get rid of the government! Kids are having trouble in schools? Then public schools must go!
#9) Wax indignant: (aka "How dare you!") Obviously if someone said something you didn't like then you should take it personally because it was meant to offend you.
#10) Shout down others: This is accomplished by posting a bunch of messages before your opponent has a chance to respond. You can do this because you have more time on your hands than most people.
#11) Army of sock puppets: This method depends on your resources. It's extremely effective. If you are a government agency or a corporation, then this method may have the most bang for the buck.
#12) Hit and Run: You won't stop debate with this method, but you sure can disrupt it. This method is most effective when used with #1.
#13) Question motives: This is an oldie but a goodie. Obviously if someone wants to call attention to something then they have something to hide, and it is your duty to expose it. What sort of partisan agenda is he/she pushing anyway?
#14) Invoke Authority: You are an expert on the subject, and these accusations are nothing more than wild rumors and conspiracy theories.
#15) Demand that they solve the crime: Why should we get excited over this unless we know every single detail? After all, this is an extremely complex situation and difficult to understand.
#16) Come half-clean: By admitting to unimportant facts then you can appear to be completely honest. [This is a last-resort method]
#17) Make **** up: Another oldie-but-goodie. If you demand your opponent prove things wrong then he/she isn't able to focus on the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic. Plus, if they are unable or unwilling to spend the time disproving your BS, you can say that you have "proven" their arguments to be false and go declare victory.
#18) Make even the slightest mistake something important: If you opponent makes a typo or isn't clear about something, then obviously they have no credibility. If the newspaper they are sourcing once made a mistake, or is from another country, then they can't be trusted.
There probably is more methods that I am forgetting, but these are the primary ones. If you think of others, please put them in the comments so that I may add them to the list.
Several people have pointed out that many of these methods are a) commonly used tools to "blow up a troll", b) that can be used for non-troll activities, and c) sometimes get used by good people on an off-day.
This is all true.
In another post on that tread: "trolling the trolls" = reverse psychology ... How to discern between a fake trolls, wannabe trolls and a real trolls.
Some (smarter) trolls play dumb just to test you if you take the bait ... but most trolls ARE really dumb (what is worse?).
..........
Most trolls use their intelligence NOT to contribute but to do the opposite.
"MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" ?
preventing baseless insinuations, unnecessary insults, racist remarks, cheap name-callings no intelligent content.
Extreme baseless accusations that begged to be corrected: if you DO correct them they laugh at you that you took the bait, in other words your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't.
Deliberately misquoting out of context & (extreme) misrepresentations serving NO ONE - Off topic dogmatic derailing real constructive conversations!
.....
~most trolls totally lack empathy but often "demand" empathy from others about their "point of view" or "conclusions" ... that's hilarious!
counter trolling can often look as trolling, since it is counter manipulative tactics - therefore relating to manipulation.
And in case YOU did not know, my own history here is one of defending the outstanding members when wrongly accused of taken apart, and otherwise being quite "balanced!" in my writings.
It is THE FIRST TIME I am the one to call on someones behavior when they are not attacting someone directly. I am convinced of what I am saying here.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 20:28
Pointing holes in other posts and only pointing the holes, IS picking on holes.
Chosing to be THE "opposition party" Under the pretext of giving oneself the role of providing balance IS being oppositional. Nobody asked for that.
And this is all thread I have seen you in Silkie. YOU becoming the CENTER of attention, by almost ONLY pointing holes, BEING the opposition party, and bringing little information altogether (but telling us you have experienced it, whatever you mention or we mention - ex: meditation, when it is obvious you did not train yourself into it, ever).
The thread is ALL around and ABOUT YOU at the present time, HERE, at present, everybody answering YOUR comments.
If there is any hole here, it seems to be either the craving ATTENTION SEEKER, or worst, the action of a troll.
And then, you offer the olive branch to some by going on pm, while refusing the olive branch of others, I Wonder on which premises.
If you want to play the "pointing" or finding holes in others posts, it would be very easy to do it with yours. But the, you would accuse the doer of harassment.
I am not, as Greybeard, convinced your doing what your are doing for the good of all.
Now, a reminder of what a troll' behavior is, for those who either have never read it or do not see it in action, when it happens:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416#post979416
There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:
1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
2) It's never too late to call out a troll. Even after you are five or more responses into the thread when you finally realized that you've been suckered, you may be incline to stick with it out of some misplaced pride or anger. Don't. You can't win debating a troll. All you can do is lower yourself to their level.
Tools for trolls
#1) Name-calling and ridicule: That doesn't mean just calling people names. The objective is to goad other people in the debate to start name-calling. That means use baseless caricatures and stereotypes, generally directed at the author, to get an emotional response. Appeal to people's prejudices and fears.
#2) Play Dumb: You are immune to facts, and all news sources are suspect. Even common sense logic is to be questioned.
#3) Demand complete and fool-proof solutions to the problems: How can you bother other people with these problems unless you also have the solutions? And not just any solutions, but solutions that have been scientifically tested and work. What? You aren't an expert in the field? Then why should we care what you say? This method is most effective when the proof you demand is impossible.
#4) Build and Destroy a Strawman: Create the elements of your opponents arguments, as you define them, and then tear them down. [This is one of my favorites]
#5) When in doubt, declare victory!: You have no idea what the debate is actually about, and all your other debating methods have failed. So why no celebrate? After all, it's all about you.
#6) It's hopeless, so why try?: Nothing can ever change. We are all doomed. The powers-that-be will always win. [This appears to be a recent favorite on the internet, and obviously the most useful for maintaining the status quo]
#7) It's old news: Never mind that the newspapers seem to care for some reason, anyone who's been paying attention had to know that this has been going on forever. [This is related to #6 and #4]
#8) Suggest extreme solutions: The government did something wrong? Then let's get rid of the government! Kids are having trouble in schools? Then public schools must go!
#9) Wax indignant: (aka "How dare you!") Obviously if someone said something you didn't like then you should take it personally because it was meant to offend you.
#10) Shout down others: This is accomplished by posting a bunch of messages before your opponent has a chance to respond. You can do this because you have more time on your hands than most people.
#11) Army of sock puppets: This method depends on your resources. It's extremely effective. If you are a government agency or a corporation, then this method may have the most bang for the buck.
#12) Hit and Run: You won't stop debate with this method, but you sure can disrupt it. This method is most effective when used with #1.
#13) Question motives: This is an oldie but a goodie. Obviously if someone wants to call attention to something then they have something to hide, and it is your duty to expose it. What sort of partisan agenda is he/she pushing anyway?
#14) Invoke Authority: You are an expert on the subject, and these accusations are nothing more than wild rumors and conspiracy theories.
#15) Demand that they solve the crime: Why should we get excited over this unless we know every single detail? After all, this is an extremely complex situation and difficult to understand.
#16) Come half-clean: By admitting to unimportant facts then you can appear to be completely honest. [This is a last-resort method]
#17) Make **** up: Another oldie-but-goodie. If you demand your opponent prove things wrong then he/she isn't able to focus on the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic. Plus, if they are unable or unwilling to spend the time disproving your BS, you can say that you have "proven" their arguments to be false and go declare victory.
#18) Make even the slightest mistake something important: If you opponent makes a typo or isn't clear about something, then obviously they have no credibility. If the newspaper they are sourcing once made a mistake, or is from another country, then they can't be trusted.
There probably is more methods that I am forgetting, but these are the primary ones. If you think of others, please put them in the comments so that I may add them to the list.
Several people have pointed out that many of these methods are a) commonly used tools to "blow up a troll", b) that can be used for non-troll activities, and c) sometimes get used by good people on an off-day.
This is all true.
In another post on that tread: "trolling the trolls" = reverse psychology ... How to discern between a fake trolls, wannabe trolls and a real trolls.
Some (smarter) trolls play dumb just to test you if you take the bait ... but most trolls ARE really dumb (what is worse?).
..........
Most trolls use their intelligence NOT to contribute but to do the opposite.
"MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" ?
preventing baseless insinuations, unnecessary insults, racist remarks, cheap name-callings no intelligent content.
Extreme baseless accusations that begged to be corrected: if you DO correct them they laugh at you that you took the bait, in other words your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't.
Deliberately misquoting out of context & (extreme) misrepresentations serving NO ONE - Off topic dogmatic derailing real constructive conversations!
.....
~most trolls totally lack empathy but often "demand" empathy from others about their "point of view" or "conclusions" ... that's hilarious!
counter trolling can often look as trolling, since it is counter manipulative tactics - therefore relating to manipulation.
I told you that we are a lot alike, Flash.
Flash
18th July 2015, 20:29
Oh no, we are not alike. Not with what I see here. I have given you the benefit of the doubt in other threads and tried to pass it humourously, but no more.
Pointing holes in other posts and only pointing the holes, IS picking on holes.
Chosing to be THE "opposition party" Under the pretext of giving oneself the role of providing balance IS being oppositional. Nobody asked for that.
And this is all thread I have seen you in Silkie. YOU becoming the CENTER of attention, by almost ONLY pointing holes, BEING the opposition party, and bringing little information altogether (but telling us you have experienced it, whatever you mention or we mention - ex: meditation, when it is obvious you did not train yourself into it, ever).
The thread is ALL around and ABOUT YOU at the present time, HERE, at present, everybody answering YOUR comments.
If there is any hole here, it seems to be either the craving ATTENTION SEEKER, or worst, the action of a troll.
And then, you offer the olive branch to some by going on pm, while refusing the olive branch of others, I Wonder on which premises.
If you want to play the "pointing" or finding holes in others posts, it would be very easy to do it with yours. But the, you would accuse the doer of harassment.
I am not, as Greybeard, convinced your doing what your are doing for the good of all.
Now, a reminder of what a troll' behavior is, for those who either have never read it or do not see it in action, when it happens:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416#post979416
There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:
1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
2) It's never too late to call out a troll. Even after you are five or more responses into the thread when you finally realized that you've been suckered, you may be incline to stick with it out of some misplaced pride or anger. Don't. You can't win debating a troll. All you can do is lower yourself to their level.
Tools for trolls
#1) Name-calling and ridicule: That doesn't mean just calling people names. The objective is to goad other people in the debate to start name-calling. That means use baseless caricatures and stereotypes, generally directed at the author, to get an emotional response. Appeal to people's prejudices and fears.
#2) Play Dumb: You are immune to facts, and all news sources are suspect. Even common sense logic is to be questioned.
#3) Demand complete and fool-proof solutions to the problems: How can you bother other people with these problems unless you also have the solutions? And not just any solutions, but solutions that have been scientifically tested and work. What? You aren't an expert in the field? Then why should we care what you say? This method is most effective when the proof you demand is impossible.
#4) Build and Destroy a Strawman: Create the elements of your opponents arguments, as you define them, and then tear them down. [This is one of my favorites]
#5) When in doubt, declare victory!: You have no idea what the debate is actually about, and all your other debating methods have failed. So why no celebrate? After all, it's all about you.
#6) It's hopeless, so why try?: Nothing can ever change. We are all doomed. The powers-that-be will always win. [This appears to be a recent favorite on the internet, and obviously the most useful for maintaining the status quo]
#7) It's old news: Never mind that the newspapers seem to care for some reason, anyone who's been paying attention had to know that this has been going on forever. [This is related to #6 and #4]
#8) Suggest extreme solutions: The government did something wrong? Then let's get rid of the government! Kids are having trouble in schools? Then public schools must go!
#9) Wax indignant: (aka "How dare you!") Obviously if someone said something you didn't like then you should take it personally because it was meant to offend you.
#10) Shout down others: This is accomplished by posting a bunch of messages before your opponent has a chance to respond. You can do this because you have more time on your hands than most people.
#11) Army of sock puppets: This method depends on your resources. It's extremely effective. If you are a government agency or a corporation, then this method may have the most bang for the buck.
#12) Hit and Run: You won't stop debate with this method, but you sure can disrupt it. This method is most effective when used with #1.
#13) Question motives: This is an oldie but a goodie. Obviously if someone wants to call attention to something then they have something to hide, and it is your duty to expose it. What sort of partisan agenda is he/she pushing anyway?
#14) Invoke Authority: You are an expert on the subject, and these accusations are nothing more than wild rumors and conspiracy theories.
#15) Demand that they solve the crime: Why should we get excited over this unless we know every single detail? After all, this is an extremely complex situation and difficult to understand.
#16) Come half-clean: By admitting to unimportant facts then you can appear to be completely honest. [This is a last-resort method]
#17) Make **** up: Another oldie-but-goodie. If you demand your opponent prove things wrong then he/she isn't able to focus on the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic. Plus, if they are unable or unwilling to spend the time disproving your BS, you can say that you have "proven" their arguments to be false and go declare victory.
#18) Make even the slightest mistake something important: If you opponent makes a typo or isn't clear about something, then obviously they have no credibility. If the newspaper they are sourcing once made a mistake, or is from another country, then they can't be trusted.
There probably is more methods that I am forgetting, but these are the primary ones. If you think of others, please put them in the comments so that I may add them to the list.
Several people have pointed out that many of these methods are a) commonly used tools to "blow up a troll", b) that can be used for non-troll activities, and c) sometimes get used by good people on an off-day.
This is all true.
In another post on that tread: "trolling the trolls" = reverse psychology ... How to discern between a fake trolls, wannabe trolls and a real trolls.
Some (smarter) trolls play dumb just to test you if you take the bait ... but most trolls ARE really dumb (what is worse?).
..........
Most trolls use their intelligence NOT to contribute but to do the opposite.
"MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" ?
preventing baseless insinuations, unnecessary insults, racist remarks, cheap name-callings no intelligent content.
Extreme baseless accusations that begged to be corrected: if you DO correct them they laugh at you that you took the bait, in other words your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't.
Deliberately misquoting out of context & (extreme) misrepresentations serving NO ONE - Off topic dogmatic derailing real constructive conversations!
.....
~most trolls totally lack empathy but often "demand" empathy from others about their "point of view" or "conclusions" ... that's hilarious!
counter trolling can often look as trolling, since it is counter manipulative tactics - therefore relating to manipulation.
I told you that we are a lot alike, Flash.
Selkie
18th July 2015, 20:35
Oh no, we are not alike. Not with what I see here. I have given you the benefit of the doubt in other threads and tried to pass it humourously, but no more.
Pointing holes in other posts and only pointing the holes, IS picking on holes.
Chosing to be THE "opposition party" Under the pretext of giving oneself the role of providing balance IS being oppositional. Nobody asked for that.
And this is all thread I have seen you in Silkie. YOU becoming the CENTER of attention, by almost ONLY pointing holes, BEING the opposition party, and bringing little information altogether (but telling us you have experienced it, whatever you mention or we mention - ex: meditation, when it is obvious you did not train yourself into it, ever).
The thread is ALL around and ABOUT YOU at the present time, HERE, at present, everybody answering YOUR comments.
If there is any hole here, it seems to be either the craving ATTENTION SEEKER, or worst, the action of a troll.
And then, you offer the olive branch to some by going on pm, while refusing the olive branch of others, I Wonder on which premises.
If you want to play the "pointing" or finding holes in others posts, it would be very easy to do it with yours. But the, you would accuse the doer of harassment.
I am not, as Greybeard, convinced your doing what your are doing for the good of all.
Now, a reminder of what a troll' behavior is, for those who either have never read it or do not see it in action, when it happens:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416#post979416
There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:
1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
2) It's never too late to call out a troll. Even after you are five or more responses into the thread when you finally realized that you've been suckered, you may be incline to stick with it out of some misplaced pride or anger. Don't. You can't win debating a troll. All you can do is lower yourself to their level.
Tools for trolls
#1) Name-calling and ridicule: That doesn't mean just calling people names. The objective is to goad other people in the debate to start name-calling. That means use baseless caricatures and stereotypes, generally directed at the author, to get an emotional response. Appeal to people's prejudices and fears.
#2) Play Dumb: You are immune to facts, and all news sources are suspect. Even common sense logic is to be questioned.
#3) Demand complete and fool-proof solutions to the problems: How can you bother other people with these problems unless you also have the solutions? And not just any solutions, but solutions that have been scientifically tested and work. What? You aren't an expert in the field? Then why should we care what you say? This method is most effective when the proof you demand is impossible.
#4) Build and Destroy a Strawman: Create the elements of your opponents arguments, as you define them, and then tear them down. [This is one of my favorites]
#5) When in doubt, declare victory!: You have no idea what the debate is actually about, and all your other debating methods have failed. So why no celebrate? After all, it's all about you.
#6) It's hopeless, so why try?: Nothing can ever change. We are all doomed. The powers-that-be will always win. [This appears to be a recent favorite on the internet, and obviously the most useful for maintaining the status quo]
#7) It's old news: Never mind that the newspapers seem to care for some reason, anyone who's been paying attention had to know that this has been going on forever. [This is related to #6 and #4]
#8) Suggest extreme solutions: The government did something wrong? Then let's get rid of the government! Kids are having trouble in schools? Then public schools must go!
#9) Wax indignant: (aka "How dare you!") Obviously if someone said something you didn't like then you should take it personally because it was meant to offend you.
#10) Shout down others: This is accomplished by posting a bunch of messages before your opponent has a chance to respond. You can do this because you have more time on your hands than most people.
#11) Army of sock puppets: This method depends on your resources. It's extremely effective. If you are a government agency or a corporation, then this method may have the most bang for the buck.
#12) Hit and Run: You won't stop debate with this method, but you sure can disrupt it. This method is most effective when used with #1.
#13) Question motives: This is an oldie but a goodie. Obviously if someone wants to call attention to something then they have something to hide, and it is your duty to expose it. What sort of partisan agenda is he/she pushing anyway?
#14) Invoke Authority: You are an expert on the subject, and these accusations are nothing more than wild rumors and conspiracy theories.
#15) Demand that they solve the crime: Why should we get excited over this unless we know every single detail? After all, this is an extremely complex situation and difficult to understand.
#16) Come half-clean: By admitting to unimportant facts then you can appear to be completely honest. [This is a last-resort method]
#17) Make **** up: Another oldie-but-goodie. If you demand your opponent prove things wrong then he/she isn't able to focus on the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic. Plus, if they are unable or unwilling to spend the time disproving your BS, you can say that you have "proven" their arguments to be false and go declare victory.
#18) Make even the slightest mistake something important: If you opponent makes a typo or isn't clear about something, then obviously they have no credibility. If the newspaper they are sourcing once made a mistake, or is from another country, then they can't be trusted.
There probably is more methods that I am forgetting, but these are the primary ones. If you think of others, please put them in the comments so that I may add them to the list.
Several people have pointed out that many of these methods are a) commonly used tools to "blow up a troll", b) that can be used for non-troll activities, and c) sometimes get used by good people on an off-day.
This is all true.
In another post on that tread: "trolling the trolls" = reverse psychology ... How to discern between a fake trolls, wannabe trolls and a real trolls.
Some (smarter) trolls play dumb just to test you if you take the bait ... but most trolls ARE really dumb (what is worse?).
..........
Most trolls use their intelligence NOT to contribute but to do the opposite.
"MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" ?
preventing baseless insinuations, unnecessary insults, racist remarks, cheap name-callings no intelligent content.
Extreme baseless accusations that begged to be corrected: if you DO correct them they laugh at you that you took the bait, in other words your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't.
Deliberately misquoting out of context & (extreme) misrepresentations serving NO ONE - Off topic dogmatic derailing real constructive conversations!
.....
~most trolls totally lack empathy but often "demand" empathy from others about their "point of view" or "conclusions" ... that's hilarious!
counter trolling can often look as trolling, since it is counter manipulative tactics - therefore relating to manipulation.
I told you that we are a lot alike, Flash.
How is it not-contributing to post about the dark side of a certain kind of meditation?
Flash
18th July 2015, 20:37
I am not answering anymore, up to other eyes to see what I see.
Gosh you are self centered. To an extreme. Or well paid.
Oh no, we are not alike. Not with what I see here. I have given you the benefit of the doubt in other threads and tried to pass it humourously, but no more.
Pointing holes in other posts and only pointing the holes, IS picking on holes.
Chosing to be THE "opposition party" Under the pretext of giving oneself the role of providing balance IS being oppositional. Nobody asked for that.
And this is all thread I have seen you in Silkie. YOU becoming the CENTER of attention, by almost ONLY pointing holes, BEING the opposition party, and bringing little information altogether (but telling us you have experienced it, whatever you mention or we mention - ex: meditation, when it is obvious you did not train yourself into it, ever).
The thread is ALL around and ABOUT YOU at the present time, HERE, at present, everybody answering YOUR comments.
If there is any hole here, it seems to be either the craving ATTENTION SEEKER, or worst, the action of a troll.
And then, you offer the olive branch to some by going on pm, while refusing the olive branch of others, I Wonder on which premises.
If you want to play the "pointing" or finding holes in others posts, it would be very easy to do it with yours. But the, you would accuse the doer of harassment.
I am not, as Greybeard, convinced your doing what your are doing for the good of all.
Now, a reminder of what a troll' behavior is, for those who either have never read it or do not see it in action, when it happens:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416#post979416
There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:
1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
2) It's never too late to call out a troll. Even after you are five or more responses into the thread when you finally realized that you've been suckered, you may be incline to stick with it out of some misplaced pride or anger. Don't. You can't win debating a troll. All you can do is lower yourself to their level.
Tools for trolls
#1) Name-calling and ridicule: That doesn't mean just calling people names. The objective is to goad other people in the debate to start name-calling. That means use baseless caricatures and stereotypes, generally directed at the author, to get an emotional response. Appeal to people's prejudices and fears.
#2) Play Dumb: You are immune to facts, and all news sources are suspect. Even common sense logic is to be questioned.
#3) Demand complete and fool-proof solutions to the problems: How can you bother other people with these problems unless you also have the solutions? And not just any solutions, but solutions that have been scientifically tested and work. What? You aren't an expert in the field? Then why should we care what you say? This method is most effective when the proof you demand is impossible.
#4) Build and Destroy a Strawman: Create the elements of your opponents arguments, as you define them, and then tear them down. [This is one of my favorites]
#5) When in doubt, declare victory!: You have no idea what the debate is actually about, and all your other debating methods have failed. So why no celebrate? After all, it's all about you.
#6) It's hopeless, so why try?: Nothing can ever change. We are all doomed. The powers-that-be will always win. [This appears to be a recent favorite on the internet, and obviously the most useful for maintaining the status quo]
#7) It's old news: Never mind that the newspapers seem to care for some reason, anyone who's been paying attention had to know that this has been going on forever. [This is related to #6 and #4]
#8) Suggest extreme solutions: The government did something wrong? Then let's get rid of the government! Kids are having trouble in schools? Then public schools must go!
#9) Wax indignant: (aka "How dare you!") Obviously if someone said something you didn't like then you should take it personally because it was meant to offend you.
#10) Shout down others: This is accomplished by posting a bunch of messages before your opponent has a chance to respond. You can do this because you have more time on your hands than most people.
#11) Army of sock puppets: This method depends on your resources. It's extremely effective. If you are a government agency or a corporation, then this method may have the most bang for the buck.
#12) Hit and Run: You won't stop debate with this method, but you sure can disrupt it. This method is most effective when used with #1.
#13) Question motives: This is an oldie but a goodie. Obviously if someone wants to call attention to something then they have something to hide, and it is your duty to expose it. What sort of partisan agenda is he/she pushing anyway?
#14) Invoke Authority: You are an expert on the subject, and these accusations are nothing more than wild rumors and conspiracy theories.
#15) Demand that they solve the crime: Why should we get excited over this unless we know every single detail? After all, this is an extremely complex situation and difficult to understand.
#16) Come half-clean: By admitting to unimportant facts then you can appear to be completely honest. [This is a last-resort method]
#17) Make **** up: Another oldie-but-goodie. If you demand your opponent prove things wrong then he/she isn't able to focus on the topic at hand. It doesn't matter if your "facts" are irrelevant to the topic. Plus, if they are unable or unwilling to spend the time disproving your BS, you can say that you have "proven" their arguments to be false and go declare victory.
#18) Make even the slightest mistake something important: If you opponent makes a typo or isn't clear about something, then obviously they have no credibility. If the newspaper they are sourcing once made a mistake, or is from another country, then they can't be trusted.
There probably is more methods that I am forgetting, but these are the primary ones. If you think of others, please put them in the comments so that I may add them to the list.
Several people have pointed out that many of these methods are a) commonly used tools to "blow up a troll", b) that can be used for non-troll activities, and c) sometimes get used by good people on an off-day.
This is all true.
In another post on that tread: "trolling the trolls" = reverse psychology ... How to discern between a fake trolls, wannabe trolls and a real trolls.
Some (smarter) trolls play dumb just to test you if you take the bait ... but most trolls ARE really dumb (what is worse?).
..........
Most trolls use their intelligence NOT to contribute but to do the opposite.
"MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" ?
preventing baseless insinuations, unnecessary insults, racist remarks, cheap name-callings no intelligent content.
Extreme baseless accusations that begged to be corrected: if you DO correct them they laugh at you that you took the bait, in other words your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't.
Deliberately misquoting out of context & (extreme) misrepresentations serving NO ONE - Off topic dogmatic derailing real constructive conversations!
.....
~most trolls totally lack empathy but often "demand" empathy from others about their "point of view" or "conclusions" ... that's hilarious!
counter trolling can often look as trolling, since it is counter manipulative tactics - therefore relating to manipulation.
I told you that we are a lot alike, Flash.
How is it not-contributing to post about the dark side of certain kinds of meditation?
Selkie
18th July 2015, 20:39
...Or well paid.
Isn't that trolling? Trying to provoke me? Like you admitted you did the other day?
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=978676&viewfull=1#post978676
Only you called it "poking", and excused yourself as being a "kitten".
You may be assuming that attaining different brain levels makes one a better person, Silkie, but I am not...
No, Flash...I meant just the opposite. I think that attaining different brain states does not automatically make someone a better person.
I know you meant the opposite. I just wanted to make you react.
For the record, my husband and I live on $2,800.00 per month, half of which comes from his social security payments, which he took early, at the age of 63.
Hervé
18th July 2015, 21:21
[...]
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416#post979416
There are two things to keep in mind about trolls:
1) They don't want to talk about the topic at hand. They want to talk about you, or themselves.
[...][...]
So far, what I have seen is quite a number of members talking about Silkie and how she should do this or that and quit doing this and that with ad hominem added (all points directed about the person Silkie) whereas said Silkie keeps getting all delinquents back on trak about certain aspects of meditation and the so-called "raising of vibrations."
So, who's trolling according to that first point?
:focus:
Hervé
18th July 2015, 22:11
I am closing this thread until futher consultations with all mods and admins.
:closed:
ThePythonicCow
19th July 2015, 01:02
I tend to tread gently in such cases as these threads ... the energies involved here are not stuff I am expert in, and it is easy for me to become reactive and destructive, just adding to the mess. The available mods on duty are discussing this ... hang on ..
An addendum from Bill, early morning North American time, Sunday: Yes, the mods are all looking closely at the thread and what has happened. We have lots of reading to do. :)
As per my note a week ago (post #55, in similar circumstances!)
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83447-Higher-Vibration-is-Not-Necessarily-Always-Better-New-Age-Mind-Control-Operations-Mapping-Electromagnetics&p=977544&viewfull=1#post977544
There are no bad guys here... we respect and value everyone who has posted and who has become so impassioned. And it's an important subject. My provisional personal view is that there may be something in the thread that is triggering good people to become a little reactive. The very nature of triggers is that we don't often see them or know what they are in real time. Please bear with us while we drink our morning :coffee: and catch up properly. :bearhug:
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