Worked on WTC in 70s

[East Sun]

My brother and I worked side by side on the WTC during construction. So it has a special place in our hearts.
He still lives in NYC, one of the boroughs. I live in MA.

Whenever I talk with him I always bring up, what I believe to be absolute fact, that 9/11 was an inside job with many facets.
He is totally opposed to me calling me crazy and much worse. Yesterday when I mentioned false flags and gave him a few facts, he said I should be committed.

The reason I bring the WTC up in conversation is that over the years I thought he would have gotten info, that would have changed his mind. But he probably will never accept the facts.

We are very different as you can imagine but it kind of grieves me that he is not willing to even listen to pros and cons.

How different we all are.

[Selkie]

My brother and I worked side by side on the WTC during construction. So it has a special place in our hearts.
He still lives in NYC, one of the boroughs. I live in MA.

Whenever I talk with him I always bring up, what I believe to be absolute fact, that 9/11 was an inside job with many facets.
He is totally opposed to me calling me crazy and much worse. Yesterday when I mentioned false flags and gave him a few facts, he said I should be committed.

The reason I bring the WTC up in conversation is that over the years I thought he would have gotten info, that would have changed his mind. But he probably will never accept the facts.

We are very different as you can imagine but it kind of grieves me that he is not willing to even listen to pros and cons.

How different we all are.

This is very sad, and I feel for you. It is the same for me, with my family. They simply cannot "go there", and we are estranged because of it, and for other reasons, as well.

But my parents are 80-plus, and so it is understandable. They were born during the Depression, and were young during WWII. They came to adulthood and had children during the 50's, only to see the United States crumble into chaos, confusion and ruin since the 60s. My sister is very intelligent, but she is totally invested in conventional society and has no interest in anything alternative, and none of them can see that what has happened has been deliberate and executed with malice aforethought.

So I feel for you...I really do.

[Citizen No2]

Thank you for sharing that East Sun.

For what it is worth, I have found, over the years, that you cannot foster your views upon anyone.

As someone far cleverer than me once said:


It is far easier to convince someone of a lie, than it is to convince them that they have been lied to

And the old maxim:


Ignorance is bliss


Regards.

[Selkie]

On a less personal note, though, I also wanted to say that I think we are very fortunate to have someone who worked on the WTC in our midst, and I would love to hear your take on what happened...on how it was dustified, as Dr. Judy Wood says. If you are willing to share, that is.

[Gaia]

What the WTC attacks suggested was that the difference between life and death, peace and war, security and insecurity is paper thin and well outside our control. The 9/11 alternative theories offer us a way around that cognitive dissonance. Turns out, we aren't actually in danger of a random stranger blowing up our local supermarket it's the governement. It was always them. True, the idea that our governement will kill us readily for its own ends is terrifying, but we expect that our governement is powerful and that it has secrets. We expect that we shouldn't trust everything that the people in governement do. And at the time of the Bush administration, with an unpopular president and a controversial approach to policy-making, it was easy to convince people that at least a portion of our governement was abusing their power. And the WTC attacks are traumatizing for that reason your brother in my very own opinion.


The other option is the accept that a few random guys on a plane had the power of life and death that day.

It’s hard to believe but there are still millions of people in the US and Canada who believe that is what happened! Most of the rest of the world looks on the US like “The Truman Show” and can’t believe how many people in the show don’t realize it’s not real...

[Watching from Cyprus]

My brother and I worked side by side on the WTC during construction. So it has a special place in our hearts.
He still lives in NYC, one of the boroughs. I live in MA.

Whenever I talk with him I always bring up, what I believe to be absolute fact, that 9/11 was an inside job with many facets.
He is totally opposed to me calling me crazy and much worse. Yesterday when I mentioned false flags and gave him a few facts, he said I should be committed.

The reason I bring the WTC up in conversation is that over the years I thought he would have gotten info, that would have changed his mind. But he probably will never accept the facts.

We are very different as you can imagine but it kind of grieves me that he is not willing to even listen to pros and cons.

How different we all are.

It will not help to keep on trying to bring your brother into your minds belief, as he is he and you are you.. I am awaken like you are Sir. My elder brother is in the middle and understands to a degree but my sister who is the oldest is far to conditioned, although she now does see what i told her years ago seems to be coming to pass (they own some real-estate and finally decided to convert their loans to 30 year fixed @ 3%) , but of cause it is not because i told her but because she has the best banker in the world :-) :-) .. Ha.. it does not matter at all.. and it is not about family as we see family.. it is about family as we who awaken are family.. nothing to do with brother, sister, mother, father..

Leave your brother alone... it does not matter at all what he thinks about your point of view.

Let me tell you how cruel it gets.. My aunt got cancer in the tong and i tried to help her via her daughter (my cousin) to have look at Dr. Simoncini's protocol. I live abroad and my sister speaks to my cousin often.. what this attempt to help resulted in, was that my sister told my cousin that I am full of it, and she should not listen to me.. my aunt who i loved dearly, had radiation therapy and passed away shortly thereafter.. i have not heard from my cousin since then and she is not responding to my attempt to contact her, and this is 2 years ago..

No folks, this nonsense about family bonds being so important is just another stupid illusion .

I cant wait till one day when hopefully a friendly alien race pops by here, and i will be the first one to ask for a hike.

I do love ya all, especially the ones of you who have no self petty .

Peter

[moekatz]

Illusions come in all forms including "family." When we move toward unconditional love we find a tolerance and empathy that helps one to accept not only others but self. This journey is filled with all the drama one needs to sort out a better path. I find co-actors/family filling in parts that I need to grow. How about all of you?

[Matt P]

I bet most of us around here have stories like this. My own parents simply refuse to consider the government is lying about 9/11. "It would be impossible to cover that up" they say. My father was a 60's hippy and still believes the official JFK story! I'm like, "Really Pop??!!" Most of my family in the city I live is the same, including my own brother. I've found their ignorance of 9/11 extends to many other topics. They trust what their authorities have told them to believe and they have stopped thinking for themselves in most cases. They are proof that the decades long propaganda has worked beautifully. I have a VERY difficult time being around them anymore as a result. Most of their conversation is rooted in current and past events and understandings that are fake. How does one just put on a happy face, pretend to be one of them and enjoy their conversations and go about maintaining those important relationships? While the police state creeps all the closer and more complete... Hell if I know. I wish someone would tell me because I find it to be MUCH healthier for me and my energy and peace of mind to not be around them. It's sad because we used to have such a great family. It is definitely me who has left the circle and the longer is goes the harder it is to see a way back in...and I'm not even sure I want to. Thank God for my wife and kids, who are all pretty aware. My 9-year-old knows more about the issues we discuss here than 95% of adult Americans! Tough issue here!! How to reconcile family differences on such earth moving topics....

Matt

[Citizen No2]

Matt wrote:


I have a VERY difficult time being around them anymore as a result.

Pheeeeeeeeeewwwww............ Sorry to take this side-ways for a minute, but I have to air this.

I have been with my partner for 24 years now. My kids are young adults. Like all couples we've had tough times, but great too.

The thing is....... I don't think we are gonna make it. My whole perception has changed, of everything. As a result I am am finding myself on a more spiritual path.

So I have become a completely different person to the one I was. I know we all change through-out our lives, but this is 180 degrees. My partner is a very intelligent woman, very driven and an excellent mother. I was finding myself becoming more and more frustrated.

This saddens me at times, I used to get angry but have worked on that, but also have come to a level of acceptance that we are no longer compatible. I am not saying this for any type of sympathy, more just to 'say it', it just is.

I know there must be people here who have experienced the same.

I tell you, this whole 'aware' business is a bummer at times.


Regards.

[Chris Gilbert]

This is why I don't generally try to discuss alternative theories and research with my family or social circle. The best you can do is subtly nudge them in the right direction while also cultivating bonds with those who better understand you.

[robinr1]

This is why I don't generally try to discuss alternative theories and research with my family or social circle. The best you can do is subtly nudge them in the right direction while also cultivating bonds with those who better understand you.



this is the absolute truth.

[East Sun]

On a less personal note, though, I also wanted to say that I think we are very fortunate to have someone who worked on the WTC in our midst, and I would love to hear your take on what happened...on how it was dustified, as Dr. Judy Wood says. If you are willing to share, that is.

All I can say is that listening to architects and demolition experts should convince anyone that the official story is absurd. Gasoline flames can not melt steel.
People who are in denial just avoid learning the facts and that is sad.

The thing that bothers me most is that politicians rely on the fact that most people are conditioned and gullible and when proof is given they don't want to hear it.
It will take something big to make the necessary change and they may get it fairly soon.
ES

[Fellow Aspirant]

Amen.

You're probably speaking for 90 -95% of the members of this forum, I'm afraid.

At least we've got each other! :bearhug:

Brian

[Fellow Aspirant]

Sorry to hear that, Citizen No2.

I myself have been threatened with divorce for just those reasons. It was very dicey for awhile (a year or two) but I swore that I would not push it (calling her one of the Sheeple was just about it).
Since then, I've used my new-found spirituality to focus on loving her and my kids and nurturing our common interests. I still have my "hobbies" that I share with a widening (slowly) group of friends, but it seems to be working. She refers to my alternative investigations as being the result of my "Side B". I think she has a point. Most members of this forum, I think, are forced to live double lives.

Namaste and best wishes, my Fellow Aspirant. ;)

Hang in there - a support group that accepts you for what you are is still a valuable thing! :flower:

Brian

[amor]

When my parents brought us to NYC I was 13. The first lung full of air held an EVIL aura. In the classrooms they spoke unrelenting about what a FREE country this was. I thought, if it is so free why are you talking about it all the time? It was obviously brainwashing. When the towers went down I was watching it on TV. I knew instantly that it was the Government. The reasons leaked out later, but my inner knowing is always in tact. 1. The buildings were unstable and had to come down, so why not do it and get the insurance? 2. There was a vast amount of gold which was to be sent to the Chinese the next day. Voila! no gold to ship. Building 7 held the secret services, Enron's evidence, etc., etc. 3. And best of all, it was a perfect excuse to grab Iraq's resources, take away the people's freedoms and have an out and out takeover, and on and on.

I worked in the city for corporations and never made a friend there. The place made my skin crawl. The undercurrent of evil was palpable.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

My brother and I worked side by side on the WTC during construction. So it has a special place in our hearts.
He still lives in NYC, one of the boroughs. I live in MA.

Wow, this is a hell of an opportunity.

I researched those towers for several years after 9/11 and you might be able to help me with a few questions, if you don't mind.

First of all, what exactly did you do during the construction process?

[Baby Steps]

Sorry to hear that, Citizen No2.

I myself have been threatened with divorce for just those reasons. It was very dicey for awhile (a year or two) but I swore that I would not push it (calling her one of the Sheeple was just about it).
Since then, I've used my new-found spirituality to focus on loving her and my kids and nurturing our common interests. I still have my "hobbies" that I share with a widening (slowly) group of friends, but it seems to be working. She refers to my alternative investigations as being the result of my "Side B". I think she has a point. Most members of this forum, I think, are forced to live double lives.

Namaste and best wishes, my Fellow Aspirant. ;)

Hang in there - a support group that accepts you for what you are is still a valuable thing! :flower:

Brian

I was talking to my partner about MH70- how someone had supposedly managed to upload a GPS photo from Diego Garcia - and she said - ' I will believe 9-11 was an inside job if you can get an i-phone up your ****!'

[East Sun]

What is the purpose of your questions? Everything you or anyone else would need to know is available on u tube in interviews with experts.

[East Sun]

I bet most of us around here have stories like this. My own parents simply refuse to consider the government is lying about 9/11. "It would be impossible to cover that up" they say. My father was a 60's hippy and still believes the official JFK story! I'm like, "Really Pop??!!" Most of my family in the city I live is the same, including my own brother. I've found their ignorance of 9/11 extends to many other topics. They trust what their authorities have told them to believe and they have stopped thinking for themselves in most cases. They are proof that the decades long propaganda has worked beautifully. I have a VERY difficult time being around them anymore as a result. Most of their conversation is rooted in current and past events and understandings that are fake. How does one just put on a happy face, pretend to be one of them and enjoy their conversations and go about maintaining those important relationships? While the police state creeps all the closer and more complete... Hell if I know. I wish someone would tell me because I find it to be MUCH healthier for me and my energy and peace of mind to not be around them. It's sad because we used to have such a great family. It is definitely me who has left the circle and the longer is goes the harder it is to see a way back in...and I'm not even sure I want to. Thank God for my wife and kids, who are all pretty aware. My 9-year-old knows more about the issues we discuss here than 95% of adult Americans! Tough issue here!! How to reconcile family differences on such earth moving topics....

Matt

Thanks Matt,
We were carpenters, as I believe you are, nothing to do with design etc. but all that steel to disappear? or be liquified. I believe nano thermo technology was used. Sorry, can't go into specifics here but the info is available for anyone if they just look. And the remaining 'material' was shipped to China. Must have cost millions.

Be well. ES

[A Voice from the Mountains]

What is the purpose of your questions? Everything you or anyone else would need to know is available on u tube in interviews with experts.

Not quite. There are a few things that were never settled for me and it would take someone who was actually there at the construction site to settle them. Things that have to do with the construction process and the structure itself.

The architect made his designs, which seem to be in public domain now. The engineers then did their work based on this, and those structural documents are not in public domain. The Port Authority then revised what the engineers did in some way and effectively classified the end result, which was put into practice during construction.

The questions I have are pretty generic in nature, but depending on the stage of construction you were involved in you may or may not have any knowledge of things. I don't want to tell you too much up front because I don't want to front-load you with expectations of exactly what data I'm going for, because I don't want you to tell me what I want to hear or vice versa. I just want some data, if you don't mind.


I just noticed above that you said you were a carpenter. Did you come in to work after the drywall was set up, or before? And did you get to see any of the concrete being poured by chance?

[East Sun]

What is the purpose of your questions? Everything you or anyone else would need to know is available on u tube in interviews with experts.

Not quite. There are a few things that were never settled for me and it would take someone who was actually there at the construction site to settle them. Things that have to do with the construction process and the structure itself.

The architect made his designs, which seem to be in public domain now. The engineers then did their work based on this, and those structural documents are not in public domain. The Port Authority then revised what the engineers did in some way and effectively classified the end result, which was put into practice during construction.

The questions I have are pretty generic in nature, but depending on the stage of construction you were involved in you may or may not have any knowledge of things. I don't want to tell you too much up front because I don't want to front-load you with expectations of exactly what data I'm going for, because I don't want you to tell me what I want to hear or vice versa. I just want some data, if you don't mind.

I have heard it said that the towers were built to be demolished. That could be, but I did not see or hear anything that would indicate that,
ES

[A Voice from the Mountains]

There is a piece to that story specifically that I wanted to try to confirm, but you would have had to have been around when the concrete was laid. A part of that theory is based on rumors of the concrete being laid in a certain way, according to another man who says he was involved in the construction process.

There was also something else I wanted to know regarding the core structure. I don't know if you paid much attention to it when you were there.

[ThePythonicCow]

What is the purpose of your questions? Everything you or anyone else would need to know is available on u tube in interviews with experts.
Of course, as you've likely already considered, any of us who might have been fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to be in the right place at the right time to see something that some powerful beings would rather not be public need to exercise additional caution at even hinting what we might have seen. Nothing sent over the Internet, except perhaps with special attention to secrecy, is secret from the most powerful.

I am glad I've never been at the right place, at the right time :).

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Of course, as you've likely already considered, any of us who might have been fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to be in the right place at the right time to see something that some powerful beings would rather not be public need to exercise additional caution at even hinting what we might have seen. Nothing sent over the Internet, except perhaps with special attention to secrecy, is secret from the most powerful.

On the other hand, I will always have an immense amount of respect for those who have had the courage to come out with information that helps, in its own small way, to set humanity free and disempower those evil beings.

In this case there have been others already that have come out with more specific information, just not many of them. There is also some strong photographic evidence contradicting the structure depicted in the NIST and FEMA reports. NIST is already looking at the potential of having lawsuits filed against it by AE911. Twenty years from now the public will likely have a much, much different view on those events, for those of us who haven't gone down the favored timelines of the psychopaths.

[ThePythonicCow]

On the other hand, I will always have an immense amount of respect for those who have had the courage to come out with information that helps, in its own small way, to set humanity free and disempower those evil beings.
Indeed .. immense respect for some, death for others, ...

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Well, the info here makes little difference. In the NIST reports, the core is depicted as consisting only of steel columns, 47 of them if I remember correctly, most of them gargantuan box columns inches thick, but tapering off in thickness towards the top. They were supposedly surrounded only by drywall.

In pictures and videos of WTC1 and 2 collapsing, it can be seen in both cases that parts of the core structure remain standing after the exterior portion has fallen away, and it appears as though the core columns were also encased in concrete, not just surrounded by drywall. This makes little difference ultimately, because the steel alone was so thick and redundant in its design strength that NIST gave up on the idea of trying to attribute the collapses on anything to do with the core structure, despite the fact that the core is variously described as carrying a 60/40 or 50/50 ratio of the total global loads in comparison with the 300 some perimeter columns and could have stood on its own (and in fact did, very briefly) even if the perimeter columns pancaked down all around them.

Concrete would have served to have shielded the steel columns from the heating of the fires, but since NIST's own worst case scenario models could not produce the amount of heating required in the core anyway, the fact that the core was encased in concrete would not be relevant to NIST's final hypothesis, but it would be relevant to the fact that the structural information they presented in their report was not even accurate. The structural documentation was never published in full, only in small bits and pieces, preventing anyone in the public from even being able to replicate NIST's computer simulations.

Their final hypothesis was that the trusses sagged from heating, pulling the perimeter columns inward by some totally unexplained force. When trusses heat and sag at extreme temperatures (which also could not be reproduced in physical tests, which is why they called these physical tests "calibrations" and then moved on to computer simulations where they kept ramping up temperatures) they sag due to the steel trying to elongate, because metal expands when it heats up. Since the truss is fastened solid on both ends against strong columns, the relatively frail truss can't expand in these directions and so it bends outward in the center. Rather than being a "pulling" force (which would imply an additional horizontal load on the exterior columns, something heat alone would obviously not provide), the expanding steel in the truss should produce a pushing force against the outer column. In other words it should have produced a force in the exact opposite direction that NIST assumes.

If this sounds too elementary for a team of engineers to screw up, then just consider this image from NIST's predecessor, the FEMA report:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/official/docs/fig_2_20.gif


Notice that the first two diagrams show columns buckling outward (and where is the core structure here?), while the 3rd diagram shows the columns buckling inward. These are two completely contradictory actions that requiring force to be applied in two completely contradictory directions. FEMA could not figure how either one made any more sense than the other apparently so they sent the job over to NIST, and NIST wrote up their 10,000+ pages, the vast majority of which had nothing at all to due with their actual hypothesis, but random data like how many people went down the stairwells and when.


Here's a picture of a portion of WTC1's core still standing after the exterior of the building has been explosively blown away:

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/media/56016/site1074.jpg


All of that gray dusty material that seems to be sublimating off of it looks an awful lot like the fine particulate covering the entire area after the "collapses", does it not?

WTC2's core structure more clearly appears to be encased in concrete:

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif


These remaining core structures vanished within seconds. WTC1's lingered for maybe half a minute before collapsing straight down onto itself like a traditional controlled demolition. WTC2's is obscured and I've never seen a video of it actually disintegrating or collapsing.

Again, according to NIST and FEMA, there should have been no concrete in the core structure except in the floors themselves. Only gypsum board around the columns, elevator shafts and various ducts.

Appendix C of FEMA's report also gives a chemical analysis of steel from the WTC that was corroded and melted below its normal melting point due to a eutectic reaction. This is exactly how thermite works. The evidence left behind on the steel indicated the presence of chemicals such as sulphur that lowered the melting temperature of steel (in very fine particulate form that was in intimate contact with the steel) exactly as it would in nanothermites developed by the DoD.

[East Sun]

bsbray,

I remember that there was re-enforced steel that was in the floors and columns and that the concrete was 'poured' by being brought there in small dumper-type
vehicles and just 'dumped' on the floors. I payed a minimal amount of attention to the process as you can imagine.
ES

If you have a question, ask and if I know I will tell you.
ES

Well, I guess, no questions.

[winstonsmith]

[QUOTE=East Sun;985940]bsbray,

I remember that there was re-enforced steel that was in the floors and columns and that the concrete was 'poured' by being brought there in small dumper-type
vehicles and just 'dumped' on the floors. I payed a minimal amount of attention to the process as you can imagine.

***********************************************************************************************

The recurring question about concrete cores is easily explained by a carpenter who worked on the structures. Do you recall ever seeing formwork being erected and removed that would indicate concrete was being poured for walls?

My study has found no such evidence. It appears that many floors were erected before one floor was poured.

The construction specifications found in the NIST report show only heavy gypsum drywall boards surrounding the core columns. I have seen not one construction photo or video that shows any concrete walls near the core area. Even in the basement, the rooms were only made of concrete blocks, where high security was required.

See NCSTAR 1-1A, Page 8, PDF page 44

[observer]

My brother and I worked side by side on the WTC during construction. So it has a special place in our hearts.
He still lives in NYC, one of the boroughs. I live in MA.

Whenever I talk with him I always bring up, what I believe to be absolute fact, that 9/11 was an inside job with many facets.
He is totally opposed to me calling me crazy and much worse. Yesterday when I mentioned false flags and gave him a few facts, he said I should be committed.

The reason I bring the WTC up in conversation is that over the years I thought he would have gotten info, that would have changed his mind. But he probably will never accept the facts.

We are very different as you can imagine but it kind of grieves me that he is not willing to even listen to pros and cons.

How different we all are.

I resonate with your frustration, East.

I don't understand how any critically thinking individual can come away from just a two hour presentation by Dr. Judy Wood on the subject of Directed Energy Weapons, and not understand what happened on 9/11.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqbcsU0_RjU

Show this video to your brother on Thanksgiving, or at Christmas. Better yet, give him the book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0615412564?*Version*=1&*entries*=0).

[winstonsmith]

In this NBC video (@ mark 21:20) watch closely right @ 21:45. You can see the core fall straight down, like the bottom was removed all at once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDK4tUDYX94

That core was very, very strong. It should have remained standing. Something attacked it near the foundation.