What the Apollo 11 NASA Mission Control engineers really saw

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, All:

This exchange below was between myself and Ted Twietmeyer, who posted first (before I replied) on Victor Martinez's now rather famous UFO-oriented e-mail list. Members include ex and current military, authors, scientists, engineers, researchers, experiencers, whistleblowers, and spooks. (To ask to join, write to Victor Martinez here: victorgm@webtv.net)

The information that Ted shares is fascinating, and in my opinion can be considered high quality testimony. Read with interest:


Ted Twietmeyer:

Stanley Kubrick is known to have secretly produced a film of the first Moon walk, in case something went wrong or unexpected.

His video secretly played in parallel with the live mission, so the live video feed could be switched to that backup on a moment's notice. It was so important to President Kennedy that Apollo 11 be successful no matter what.

When you watched Apollo 11 live on television during the last landing phase, that was Kubrick's film. NASA allowed the press to see tape-delayed Moon landing.

My friend was watching the live raw video feed from Apollo in mission control, before the tape delay. NASA quickly switched to Kubrick's film during the last few minutes during the final descent to the Moon's surface, after UFOs starting flying around the lander.

Press was kicked out of the building and doors locked. They were sworn to secrecy since none of them talked. A quick meeting was held by NASA to decide whether or not to scrub the mission. It was decided to continue, without live video.

How do I know this? This revelation came out when I told my professional friend about a straight-edged white area on the Lunar surface near the lander during the first Moon walk video was all wrong, and how the area looked like the edge of a elevated stage.

There is a video of this on YouTube some people claim is a TV commercial. Yet no one can find it as a commercial. During the "One small step for man" speech a light bar comes crashing down and uniformed men rush onto the elevated stage to help the astronaut-actor back up the ladder.

Problem with this being a TV ad? This video is 38 seconds long - far too long for any standard 30 sec. commercial which are all 28 seconds long and too short for a 1 minute commercial.

After hearing this, my friend innocently explained to me how the public never saw the real video feed. He stated




"I was there for engineering support for systems sold by my company ______ to NASA. NASA demanded support by vendors for critical equipment bought for that mission."
He then explained what he saw happen first hand in mission control that December day in 1969. He was there, watching a non-delayed TV Moon feed, when UFOs began flying around the lander. He and other engineers had nothing else to do but stand around and watch live raw video direct from the Moon.

I have known him for many decades; we both worked in the same electronics engineering field for many years. He is extremely honest and thought nothing of telling me all this, just as though it wasn't a big deal at all.

To this day you will not find his name anywhere on the web. He absolutely refuses any publicity. Within a few hours he was threatened by a red screen, self-deleting email after telling me about this and other events I will never reveal.

He innocently thought the Moon mission fiasco and other ops were no longer secret. The next morning a courier hand delivered a letter to his home. A pentagon general stated those events and operations years ago you think are no longer unclassified still remain top secret.

I was previously cleared to secret for a federal contract, which might be why I was not threatened. There IS another space agency that most of the public is unaware of.

Anyone who foolishly believes that the government cannot keep anything secret is an idiot. One example: Manhattan Project developed the first A-bomb. It ran for many years before the first desert explosion and involved thousands of people. The uranium enrichment project used 2/3 of the power generated by Hoover Dam. This is why the Manhattan project was located where it was.

NO ONE in the public ever knew about the desert operation until some time after that first explosion. And those were the days before the NSA existed to listen in on everything people are doing.

Security methods and systems were extremely crude and primitive. If you left the project facility you ate a bullet. A late friend of mine worked on that project in a lab; he refused to ever speak about it until he died 20 years ago. That's the level of fear the fed can put into people to keep them quiet for life.

Secrecy agreements for top secret projects have a clause - violate the agreement and "the government has the right to terminate your contract with extreme prejudice." We all know what means.

Snowden? He's just another black op. Why? If the fed really wanted to shut him up they would have. For over 20 years, we have had variable power, chemically powered terawatt lasers mounted in aircraft used for missile defense. These weapons easily destroy a missile, are not a secret and have been in the media.

At low power they are used for targeting, and can quickly switch to high power for the kill. These weapons could also be used to silently kill anyone from over 100 miles away with pin-point precision. Infrared beam is invisible. Beam is stabilized by a precision servo-motor driven mirror mounted under the nose of the aircraft, similar to how helicopter cameras are stabilized.

In conclusion, yes, we DID go to the Moon. But the public was not allowed to see the actual first Moon walk.

Most likely these NASA activities in 1969 will never be made public by NASA. Revealing it will accomplish nothing and do great damage to both America's credibility and NASA's credibility.

Historically we already know Dr. Wernher Von Braun was the overall designer of the Moon mission. He probably knew all about what happened from his many friends at NASA; he was still alive and didn't die until 1977 in Alexandria, VA. As a scientist who came to America from Germany under operation paper-clip, he knew better than to speak out about it. Coming from Nazi Germany he already knew how people can be silenced.


Bill Ryan:

Hi, Ted:

Many thanks for your most interesting and detailed piece. With you all the way. Yes, the Apollo landing films were clearly faked, and the informed jury looks to fully agree they was directed by Kubrick... a very talented man, the only person for the job in that era.

Re the 'Moontruth' clip (the very funny video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_GzwzaJuwY) of the stage lighting falling to hit 'Neil Armstrong' on the head) — it does appear to be a clever joke (not a hoax per se). Do read here, for the record:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040405160116/http://www.moontruth.com/full.htm


Ted Twietmeyer:

A non-internet friend of mine told me he was standing in mission control when Apollo 11 made the descent to the Moon's surface. I had told my friend more than 10 years ago about the stage light falling down, and that with other evidence appeared to shed a negative light on the television video NASA aired that very day and how it appeared to be fake. I've known him for decades and his character is impeccable.

He casually replied to me about the fake video,



"What else could it be? I was standing in Mission control doing support for the ______ system the company I worked for built. A lot of us were there at NASA's request in case something went wrong any of the equipment. We didn't have anything else to do but stand around and watch the TV monitors since everything was working OK. As the lander made was nearing it's last minutes of descent, these objects started flying around it. NASA kicked the media out of the building and locked the doors. They held a hasty meeting to decide whether or not to scrub the mission. They decided to continue since so much was at stake."It is also public knowledge that the Lunar Lander commander took manual control at the last minute, supposedly because they found out the automated lander program was heading straight for a boulder field. Boulder field is of course BS. Several unmanned missions to the Moon in the sixties sent detailed topographic video and pictures back to Earth.

Another late friend of mine who worked on the Manhattan project, and later in life at Eastman Kodak's spy satellite division, told me that in the 50's film from a satellite was sent back to Earth. It showed a man was mowing his lawn on one satellite pass, and on the next pass....photographed a pack of Lucky Strike cigarettes left on a trash can in his backyard. And that was in the MID FIFTIES.

Just last night on television, a 2015 episode of Ancient Aliens vindicated my friend's testimony from 10 years ago. Indeed, according to former NASA astronauts on the TV show unknown objects DID fly around the Lunar Lander. But of course, the show could not have known about the first-hand testimony of what went on in mission control that day and therefore said nothing about it.

Here's my conclusion based on all the facts: NASA switched to Kubrick's pre-made studio video to cover up the flying objects, not to avoid a boulder field.

[WhiteLove]

Bill, very very interesting read! I am also very convinced that the NASA Apollo 11 mission did in fact take place and that they reached the moon, but since they never really continued going there I am very much expecting they encountered stuff they did not want to disclose to the public, it went black when they noticed they were not alone and from there the cover up became the norm in regards to all activities in space and I find it likely that it was at this point that the secret space program was born and that they secretly resumed investigating the moon Mars etc. in the secret space program while gradually fading out their planned manned future moon missions. For this reason I find it very likely that all of the pictures sent from these missions back to earth have gone through strict cover up protocols before reaching the public. The "core resolution" has probably been selected such that eventhough there is infrastructure there, you cannot possibly notice that because of the low resolution. If they wanted to they could have captured very very high resolution images covering the whole moon and make them available to the public, but they haven't and that shows they are keen to hide certain details about the moon. So I think we are dealing with a vast cover up here, not only of the moon but of our entire solar system and beyond.

[Gaia]

I have just recently discovered the internet archive and the wealth of information and visuals it offers. It truly is what the internet should have been about.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=apollo%2011


And also the Apollo 11 Lunar surface Journal

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11main.html

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/images11.html

Interesting photos, videos, and audio, raw voice transcripts etc.

Like this one about Lunar dust combustion:

''Aldrin - "Lunar surface activities are not as precise and crisp as other things in the spacecraft: (that is, times outside the LM) where you're setting up to do something and then something else happens. They're sort of very subjective and kind of reactive. And maybe that was different for me during this portion of the mission than the others."]

[I asked if they had much of a chance to talk with the 12 crew before heading out on their world tour.]

[Armstrong - "Not as much as we would have liked, because the world tour and all of the other things we were involved in really took us away from that conversation with later crews. Nonetheless, we had some and they would certainly talk to us when it was convenient."]

[Aldrin - "We weren't totally inaccessible."]

[During the 1969 Technical Debrief and the discussion of the dropped Hasselblad magazine, Buzz asked Neil if "the film magazine hit the pad or dropped right to the surface".]

[Armstrong, from the 1969 Technical Debrief - "I think it hit the surface clear of the pad, on the right side, which would be the spacecraft's left. I wasn't worried about the (possible fire hazard from dust on the) contingency sample, because that was inside a bag. If anything was going to catch fire, it was going to be my whole suit, because it was just covered with that stuff."]

[When asked in early 2014 about the source of speculation about spontaneous combustion of lunar dust when exposed to oxygen in the LM cabin, Jack Schmitt wrote, "This was another stink bomb that Tommy Gold threw over the transom - that is Tommy Gold of 'sinking out of sight in dust' fame. NASA could never say 'shut up' to Gold, so we played lip service to worrying about pyrophoricity but basically ignored the question. There was no scientific rationale to think this was a problem." See also, pages 18-19 in Donald A. Beattie's Taking Science to the Moon: Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program.]''

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.clsout.html

[Cardillac]

"It was so important to President Kennedy that Apollo 11 be successful no matter what"- wasn't Kennedy was already dead (1963) before the Apollo missions even began?- please inform me (and how did Kennedy know back then that Apollo "11" would be the one to land on the moon?)-

"Anyone who foolishly believes that the government cannot keep anything secret is an idiot. One example: Manhattan Project developed the first A-bomb"- the Manhatten Project did NOT develop the first A-bomb!!!- German scientists were the first to split the atom; it was first publicized in 1938 if my read sources are correct (probably happened long before 1938 but first became known in '38); then read the documented research of Dr. Joseph P. Farrell who states German scientists did two successful atomic bomb tests in 1945 before the war was over and how enriched uranium plus all the technology behind it (like start with the A-bomb) was handed over to the US thanks to Operation Paperclip; the despicable bombs lobbed on Japan were a German technology and NOT a US-American technology;

now let's go under a microscope: once the space race began the Soviets were waaay ahead of the US; but their space program ended because they stated it would be impossible to penetrate the van Allen radiation belt;

my point being: if/IF the moon landings took place they were NOT done by NASA but by a much more advanced secret space program that has NAZI roots;

another thing to consider: why did the supposed Apollo moon landings stop so abruptly and why has no-one else gone to the moon since then (technology continues to advance)?-

for more info on this subject do read Jim Fetzer's "And I suppose we didn't go to the Moon, either" (available at Amazon)-

please stay well all-

Larry

[Cidersomerset]

Here's my conclusion based on all the facts: NASA switched to Kubrick's pre-made
studio video to cover up the flying objects, not to avoid a boulder field.

There have been many threads and posts about the moon landings, my current thoughts after
watching many docs and researchers comments and views on the subject is . If there has been
a secret space programme , set up soon after Roswell and we have explored our galaxy and
beyond and have bases off world then yes , Apollo 11 could of got to the moon aided. If
not who knows there are other theories ? Or the ' tin can express' did get there under its
own ' steam ' , metaphorically speaking as the technology that got them there , though
supposedly cutting edge for 1969 , seems primitive a bit like comparing Stephenson 'Rocket'
to the TR 3B.

Anyway the Stanley Kubrick claims seems logical and prudent from NASA's point of view.
The 1960's were the height of the 'Cold War' , 'Mk Ultra' the US was bogged down in
Vietnam. Civil Rights and anti war protests were wide spread . The US government
needed the Apollo programme to distract the public and win a massive propaganda victory.
It would be unthinkable there were not contingency plans for the filming of the landings...

So I think the astronauts got to the moon one way or another , and its telling none
of them seem to remember much about the most high profile adventure of the 20th
century. The landings were also filmed on the set of 2001 by Stanley Kubrik and it
was spliced together as many suggest....But I'm always open to knew suggestions.


Jay Weidner Stanley Kubrick and the Apollo Moon Landings . Jay has done many
videos and interviews on the subject , also other researchers have put up many
interesting documentaries.


===================================================
===================================================

A relatively recent radio interview.....

Published on 26 Jan 2015

Jay Weidner Stanley Kubrick and the Apollo Moon Landings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk03zcSVOWg

Jay Weidner Stanley Kubrick and the Apollo Moon Landings. Jay Weidner is an
author, filmmaker and hermetic scholar, considered to be a "modern-day Indiana
Jones" for his ongoing worldwide quests to find clues to mankind's spiritual destiny.
He returns to Red Ice to talk about his film, Kubrick's Odyssey. Jay presents
compelling evidence of how Stanley Kubrick directed the Apollo moon landings. He
reveals that the film, 2001: A Space Odyssey was not only a retelling of Arthur C.
Clarke and Kubrick's novel, but also a research and development project that
assisted Kubrick in the creation of the Apollo moon footage. Weidner also tells how
Kubrick's film, The Shining is the story of Kubrick's personal travails as he secretly
worked on the Apollo footage for NASA.

[Cidersomerset]

RICHPLANET TV - Apollo Conspiracy .....

This is an in depth discussion and analyst of some of the Moon landing photos
and the lunar exclusion modules fly by of the moon and alleged photos of
the landing sites.A good discussion between Rich Hall and Avalon member
Andy Johnson.


yNI61LbYHzI

Published on 17 Jan 2015.........recorded 2013


Apollo conspiracy -2 parts spliced together into a 1hr 50 min movie from Richplanet TV.

Anyone who is convinced rockets got man to and from the surface of the moon
should not dismiss this show. There seem to be some glaring pieces of evidence
which are beyond dispute that cast massive doubt over whether the Apollo
technology actually landed on the lunar surface. That is not to say there may be a
secret space programme using something other than rockets which has travelled
much further. Are we to believe that the rocket technology developed from the
1940's is still the only thing capable of getting a vehicle into space? Were the Apollo
and Space Shuttle programmes just something to put on public show while the elite
continued anti-gravity development in secret? Mainstream documentaries on such
issues do not present the best evidence and are not independently produced
therefore cannot be trusted.

==================================================

I changed over vids as the Corbett report is more about Kubricks career...

The Kubrick Question

fFxJFv_wpqw

[Cardillac]

@Cidersomerset

You're right on the mark, Baby- please continue-

Larry

[Matt P]

Here's my conclusion based on all the facts: NASA switched to Kubrick's pre-made
studio video to cover up the flying objects, not to avoid a boulder field.

There have been many threads and posts about the moon landings, my current thoughts after
watching many docs and researchers comments and views on the subject is . If there has been
a secret space programme , set up soon after Roswell and we have explored our galaxy and
beyond and have bases off world then yes , Apollo 11 could of got to the moon aided. If
not who knows there are other theories ? Or the ' tin can express' did get there under its
own ' steam ' , metaphorically speaking as the technology that got them there , though
supposedly cutting edge for 1969 , seems primitive a bit like comparing Stephenson 'Rocket'
to the TR 3B.

Anyway the Stanley Kubrick claims seems logical and prudent from NASA's point of view.
The 1960's were the height of the 'Cold War' , 'Mk Ultra' the US was bogged down in
Vietnam. Civil Rights and anti war protests were wide spread . The US government
needed the Apollo programme to distract the public and win a massive propaganda victory.
It would be unthinkable there were not contingency plans for the filming of the landings...

So I think the astronauts got to the moon one way or another , and its telling none
of them seem to remember much about the most high profile adventure of the 20th
century. The landings were also filmed on the set of 2001 by Stanley Kubrik and it
was spliced together as many suggest....But I'm always open to knew suggestions.


Jay Weidner Stanley Kubrick and the Apollo Moon Landings . Jay has done many
videos and interviews on the subject , also other researchers have put up many
interesting documentaries.


===================================================
===================================================

A relatively recent radio interview.....

Published on 26 Jan 2015

Jay Weidner Stanley Kubrick and the Apollo Moon Landings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk03zcSVOWg

Jay Weidner Stanley Kubrick and the Apollo Moon Landings. Jay Weidner is an
author, filmmaker and hermetic scholar, considered to be a "modern-day Indiana
Jones" for his ongoing worldwide quests to find clues to mankind's spiritual destiny.
He returns to Red Ice to talk about his film, Kubrick's Odyssey. Jay presents
compelling evidence of how Stanley Kubrick directed the Apollo moon landings. He
reveals that the film, 2001: A Space Odyssey was not only a retelling of Arthur C.
Clarke and Kubrick's novel, but also a research and development project that
assisted Kubrick in the creation of the Apollo moon footage. Weidner also tells how
Kubrick's film, The Shining is the story of Kubrick's personal travails as he secretly
worked on the Apollo footage for NASA.

I concur with this and Bill's thread, that we did go to the moon but showed the world fake video and pictures, which has been well documented (Jack White comes to mind, as well as a few others).
I do not believe we got there in that "tin can." As Richard Hoagland explained, when Von Braun put that first satellite in orbit and it was late coming around the earth to reestablish contact [edit: because it had settled in a much higher orbit than they expected], that was the moment he realized there was some unusual physics going on, which I believe led to the development of the anti-gravity propulsion, which he kept to himself and probably just a few trusted others. Something in me believes this secret technology was used to get us to the moon... and that it wasn't the typical combustion type engine we're told. Obviously, none of the official account can be taken as pure fact.

Matt

[Carmody]

Take this for what it is worth:

I was warned to not OBE, astral project, or 'remote view' the moon.

I did it anyway. Time period, 2010'ish (year)

I looked for specific human landing sites. Not the 'other', due to the issues that were spoken of in Ingo's book. I was careful to not look for anything else, as that sort of attention....

What I did find was a site where three or four advanced looking human 'space suited' individuals were all dead, with their helmets opened. Around them, were some crates. Nothing else. I surmised that it was an abandoned landing, or specifically a recovery loading site. I surmised that the individuals left there had possibly made a choice. That it was was cargo....or them. No room for both. They chose cargo, and stayed behind. My best guess was it was a deep space program artifact recovery attempt, from the early 70's, with more advanced gear (space suits) then we then (or now) know of. The other option is that it may not have been possible to recover these men. Their being left there may have been out of the hands of those involved.

[Cidersomerset]

I was warned to not OBE, astral project, or 'remote view' the moon.


Funny you should bring this up and a interesting observation you had.

I saw the below article yesterday and it showed how seriously the military
and other agencies took remote viewing and presumably still do.
Courtney does not seem to have looked at our moon , though his
team has done Mars and Iapetus one of Saturns moons and found
ancient alien ruins and other anomalies.

Courtney Brown - Aliens On Iapetus

ivW2p-k52MY

====================================================
====================================================

I was contemplating posting this as a thread , but will post here for now....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84093-COURTNEY-BROWN-REMOTE-VIEWING-THE-PHOENIX-LIGHTS--live-stream-on-29-July-2015-&p=986330#post986330


Remote Viewing Revelations From the US Military to the British MoD

By ickonic on 6th August 2015 Mysteries, What is Reality?

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/RemoteViewing-1200x675.jpg

====================================================

http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/WT-Logo-Color-Orange-Red-Fade-1.png


Remote Viewing Revelations From the US Military to the British MoD
By WakingTimes August 5, 2015

http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Remote-Viewing.jpg

‘Surprising new evidence reveals that the British Government showed an active interest
in using psychics for espionage purposes. In a document obtained under the Freedom of
Information Act by UFO author and investigator Timothy Good, it was discovered that the
British Ministry of Defence (MoD) undertook a study between 2001 and 2002 to investigate
the efficiency of remote viewing.

For those who don’t know, remote viewing – also called ‘travelling clairvoyance’ – is the
ability to perceive places, persons and actions using psychic means. As is now well known,
the US Army and various other tax payer supported government agencies, including the CIA,
investigated and utilised remote viewing during the 1970s and 1980s.

Now that it’s been declassified, all of the documentation pertaining to the British MoD’s remote
viewing study can be obtained from their website – or so they claim. In one section it states
that the results they obtained were largely unsuccessful and “undoubtedly disappointing with
no one achieving any useful performance as an RV subject.” However, given the fact that
untrained novices were used in the study, as well as the fact that the remote viewing methods
they employed left much to be desired, this is not surprising.’

Read more: Remote Viewing Revelations From the US Military to the British MoD

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/08/05/remote-viewing-revelations-from-the-us-military-to-the-british-mod/

[Cidersomerset]

There were a couple of other related threads posted yesterday by Gaia & Chancy

No Alien base on the other side. I am disappointed.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif


DMdhQsHbWTs

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84301-No-Alien-base-on-the-other-side.-I-am-disappointed.



====================================================
Aliens on the Moon - The Truth Exposed

2BHJfCTomXI


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84287-Aliens-on-the-Moon-The-Truth-Exposed

[Cidersomerset]

Another related article from todays headline page , though I
think we have already developed the technology decades ago,
whether thru back engineered ET vehicles , Technology swop,
or clever humans developing Teslas ideas.

======================================

Quantum Spacecraft & Other Hidden Truths: Snowden’s ‘Black Budgets’

By ickonic on 7th August 2015 Illuminati Criminals, Mysteries, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Black-Budget-Spacecraft.jpg

Black-Budget-Spacecraft

Though I tend to think they look possibly more like this......

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/signtimes6_02.jpg

======================================

http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/WT-Logo-Color-Orange-Red-Fade-1.png

Christina Sarich, Contributor
By WakingTimes August 6, 2015

‘Not long ago Edward Snowden, a former intelligence contractor leaked the very first
documentation that proves the existence of clandestine black budget operations. You
can read more about that here. So what discoveries lay hidden that are open to
reasonable speculation?

When Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House in the 1970s, the whole
world thought we were about to enter a new era of alternative energy. As soon as
was elected, however, he took them down, taking us back to the dark ages of
and marking several more decades of dependency on a polluting, non-renewable
substance – oil. Conspiracy theories abound regarding why this happened, but the
energy crisis goes down a deeper rabbit hole in Alice’s little wonder world than some
of us could have imagined – enter quantum spacecraft, and a few other little secrets.’

In order to travel light years away, compelling the forces of gravity to work in one’s
favor is just the first of numerous challenges to overcome. You need an energy
source that could not only lift tons of steel or metal off an object as gravity-
influenced as planet earth, but could also propel you into space for several million
miles. Even our own moon, at its closest point in orbit, is over 225,000 miles away.
Aunt Bertha’s Dodge Plymouth just isn’t going to get you there.

In addition to the numerous UFO landings on earth and extraterrestrial visits that
the secret government (related CE article: Black Budget) has veiled from public
view, they have also hidden alternative energies – some so powerful they could
carry a ship across the galaxy. You can read more about the UFO/extraterrestrial
phenomenon here.

Several years ago, a nineteen-year-old Egyptian student invented and patented
a ‘new’ kind of propulsion system that relied not on thrusters, but quantum physics.
Bypassing the normal limitations of space travel due to the need for fuel, Aisha
Mustafa developed silicon plates that ‘mirrored’ the quantum particle sea, utilizing
what is known as the ‘Casimir effect’ to propel a ship into space.


Read more: Quantum Spacecraft & Other Hidden Truths: Snowden’s ‘Black Budgets’


http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/08/06/quantum-spacecraft-other-hidden-truths-snowdens-black-budgets/

[Ewan]

Great thread, please keep it going. Have we all read 'Who Built the Moon' by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler (also 'Civilis(z)ation One', and the megalithic yard)?

Was the moon 'put' in place as an observatory, and in its placement, creating the tides necessary for a whole now set of conditions allowing life to flourish.

It's not off topic, just a tangent. Was the moon a space laboratory and observatory, did it start that way but has become something else?

[KiwiElf]

My understanding from the numerous threads about the Moon Landing (on Avalon and plenty of info "out there"), is that yes we did go to the Moon but the Apollo had some "advanced technology" (translate as ET reverse engineered tech) to allow it to do so, ie

1. A very thin shielding was used to protect against the radiation
2. Propulsion system of the Lander was partially anti-grav

... and yes, a good deal of what the public saw in the way of photographs and video was staged, faked or altered to hide "items of interest" ;):

With the telescopic surveillance power we had back then, (usually pointed downward), how hard would it have been to point it at the Moon and see evidence of ET artifacts/bases etc? It's my belief the JFK already had this knowledge prior to the Apollo program. Realising it was too big a secret for any one government or country to possess and that sooner or later Russia might get access to it first, this may have been the reason Kennedy wanted to do a joint co-operative mission with Russia and share in the discoveries openly. As the conspiracy theory goes, that upset MJ-12 plans and Kennedy became the subject of an "expediancy" (assassinated).

It might also be one of the reasons the Vietnam war went ahead under Johnson's Presidency, reversing Kennedy's decision NOT to invade. Why? According to William (Bill) Cooper's testimony in Behold A Pale Horse, - downloadable on Avalon - Vietnam was crawling with UFO bases at the time, and MJ-12 wanted the technology at all costs for their own secret space program.

This then diverges down an even bigger rabbit hole when we consider the growing possibility that the Nazi's may have beaten everyone to it as early as 1942 - before the end of WWII - but that's another story. :)

Other Recommended reading... and every other thread on the subject here on Avalon;):

Somebody Else Is On The Moon by George H. Leonard, 1976 (Also downloadable here on Avalon from the Interesting Books thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9462-Interesting-Free-Books-in-PDF

[Jake]

Incredible! I detailed my Moon experiments in mee wee book...


""""My next chance came on April 21st, not quite a month later. Another mid-day OBE that was crystal clear and lucid. I went out into the street, located the moon, charged up energy, focused all my thought and will, and, poof; NOTHING. Instant-projecting to far away locations is has been a very basic undertaking in many OBE’s. Not this one. I remember grinning and being quite tickled at the fact that something seemed to be stopping me from my ’moon-jump’ attempts. I sat Indian-style and hovered in the street with my eyes closed. I tried again. I remember feeling the same sensations that I had felt in the past when traveling long distances. Very amazing feeling. Everything went pitch black. I know that I had made it to the moon, but I had lost my vision. To make matters worse, I was suddenly hit with the strongest urge to get the hell out of there. It was sudden and intense! So, I got the hell out of there! There seems to be more to the moon than meets the eye, and I am wondering if I should continue with theses experiments. I certainly had other things that I could be doing.  

    One of my final attempts to make it to the moon occurred on Sunday, May 6th 2007. After a fairly easy exit, I made it out into the dining room area before I remembered my goals/experiments. I was going to try to get to the moon again. That is where my memory of this event ends abruptly. I do not know how long it had been, but when I came to, I was sobbing from whatever had been occurring. I had a dreadful feeling about trying to get to the moon, and I had an overwhelming experience that I did not remember, but the message came through loud and clear. STAY AWAY FROM THE MOON! I wanted to remember what happened but, at the same time, I was terrified at what I thought probably happened. I do not know the details, but I feel strongly that there are intelligences that are not human that are protective of the moon! As absurd as it may sound, this is what I learned while I was out of my body! I decided that I had had enough of this particular experiment. I would still keep it on the ‘back burner’ but I will not actively pursue the moon experiments too much from here on.

    I was learning a lot. It seemed that I had opened up a can of worms. My OBE’s started becoming more ASTRAL than dense-astral, or, RTZ. The information fields that I was ‘surfing’ were not going to be kind to me. Some of the truths that we find are going to be dreadful. Much of the information is devastating, as I am becoming aware of different groups of multidimensional E.T.’s. This was not the answer that I was expecting to get. I was just trying to get to the moon for fun. Be careful what you ask for. (Or be prepared, whichever works best for you.)""""









Take this for what it is worth:

I was warned to not OBE, astral project, or 'remote view' the moon.

I did it anyway. Time period, 2010'ish (year)

I looked for specific human landing sites. Not the 'other', due to the issues that were spoken of in Ingo's book. I was careful to not look for anything else, as that sort of attention....

What I did find was a site where three or four advanced looking human 'space suited' individuals were all dead, with their helmets opened. Around them, were some crates. Nothing else. I surmised that it was an abandoned landing, or specifically a recovery loading site. I surmised that the individuals left there had possibly made a choice. That it was was cargo....or them. No room for both. They chose cargo, and stayed behind. My best guess was it was a deep space program artifact recovery attempt, from the early 70's, with more advanced gear (space suits) then we then (or now) know of. The other option is that it may not have been possible to recover these men. Their being left there may have been out of the hands of those involved.

incredible!

Jake

[amor]

As this subject is on topic and the question is whether they did go to the moon, I will repeat a post I made here in the past. On the day that they were supposed to have blasted off to the moon, I knew nothing of this event. However, I was asleep next to my husband and had an extremely frightening experience from which I awoke in relief and looked at my husband's watch. It was exactly 4 pm day light savings time. I was on a Caribbean Island. While I was sleeping, something grabbed my brain and I was experiencing what I have interpreted to have been the sensation of many times G force as one might experience blasting away in a rocket ship. Simultaneously, there were the sound of many voices such as one would hear from the control room of NASSA as one voice in the foreground said, "This is a spaceship."

The next day on the radio, I heard about the Apollo 11 flight to the moon and a statement which explained my experience to me, "The radio transmission was the most powerful one ever transmitted on Earth!" We had gone to see the live African Ballet the evening before the day of the terrifying dream and I was introduced to Claudette Colbert, all a group of memorable events.

Subsequently, I concluded that whatever else may have been taking place with the Apollo 11 team, someone was undergoing terrifying accelleration and sent out the message that he was in a spaceship. A UFO, by all accounts, does not let the occupants experience G forces. Perhaps this information added to everything else will reveal the truth.

[amor]

Before the thought leaves me, we have been hearing about the kidnapping of millions of adults and children and this has been attributed to Aliens feeding on humans; however, could they be spirited away in mass to other planets to work as slaves as well? The Nazi's having the flying saucer would have been first to the moon from the present surface of the Earth. We know that the creatures who look like devils live under the Earth and have flying saucers and are responsible for human mutilations. Other posts re the moon say the Rothschilds have resorts on the moon, a mountain of gold exists there in the open, probably the result of years of mined gold; and I, personally, while viewing telescope views of the Moon feel certain I saw giant humans among trees in one of Jose Escamilas videos. One view suggested these giants were looking over the side wall of a crater while viewing a human installation at the bottom.

[ceetee9]

One problem I have with Mr. Twietmeyer's story about being present in mission control for the Apollo 11 moon landing is this statement: "He then explained what he saw happen first hand in mission control that December day in 1969." Apollo 11 landed on the moon on July 20th, 1969 not December. Perhaps he was talking about the Apollo 17 mission which, I believe, was in December of 1972.

[Operator]

Could it be that they are trying to salvage the Apollo missions myth? My strongest gut feeling is that none of the
Apollo missions made it to the moon at all. Now by releasing/admitting to an alternative (acceptable?) version they
try to reinforce the believe that Apollo missions were still capable to fly to the moon and stick as close as possible
to the original story line. :facepalm:

[bogeyman]

All this really bothers me, unverifiable information or verifiable from dubious sources, and the worse thing people lap it up like it was fact. I have noticed people in so called UFO circles like the hype, the sensational, and the sigma of the whole leaked information entourage, which is wide open to misinformation and disinformation from government and non government sources, and the worse of all some of it could be true, yet there is no way except to the believers of providing evidence to such a degree to stand up under intensive scrutiny. People wish to believe, which in some occasions isn't based upon rational investigative techniques or information, but an sensational appetite to believe because they wish to believe it.

[Jake]

Speak for yourself before you speak for anyone else! Painting everyone with that broad statement is not necessary. This is a discussion! Do we have your okay to continue?

I read your post several times, looking for the value. This can't be verified so there is no use in discussing it? Clearly you are wrong. We can bounce this info off each other if we want to! If you would rather not discuss it, by all means,, move along.




All this really bothers me, unverifiable information or verifiable from dubious sources, and the worse thing people lap it up like it was fact. I have noticed people in so called UFO circles like the hype, the sensational, and the sigma of the whole leaked information entourage, which is wide open to misinformation and disinformation from government and non government sources, and the worse of all some of it could be true, yet there is no way except to the believers of providing evidence to such a degree to stand up under intensive scrutiny. People wish to believe, which in some occasions isn't based upon rational investigative techniques or information, but an sensational appetite to believe because they wish to believe it.

[bogeyman]

Speak for yourself before you speak for anyone else! Painting everyone with that broad statement is not necessary. This is a discussion! Do we have your okay to continue?

I read your post several times, looking for the value. This can't be verified so there is no use in discussing it? Clearly you are wrong. We can bounce this info off each other if we want to! If you would rather not discuss it, by all means,, move along.




All this really bothers me, unverifiable information or verifiable from dubious sources, and the worse thing people lap it up like it was fact. I have noticed people in so called UFO circles like the hype, the sensational, and the sigma of the whole leaked information entourage, which is wide open to misinformation and disinformation from government and non government sources, and the worse of all some of it could be true, yet there is no way except to the believers of providing evidence to such a degree to stand up under intensive scrutiny. People wish to believe, which in some occasions isn't based upon rational investigative techniques or information, but an sensational appetite to believe because they wish to believe it.

Drawing wrong conclusions. Do not believe anything without verification, some of this could be true, but some believe for the sake of believing or because the masses believe it. I have been doing documented research for 25 years in the intelligence field, I have had all sorts of information and frankly dirty tricks come my way. Caution is the better part of valour as they say. Discuss yes, try to find strengths and weaknesses in all this yes, but keep an open mind, for there is a lot of manipulation going on in UFO circles, this is why I keep out of the entire UFO community some of which is bickering amongst themselves but that is down to personality some times and your going to get that any way in any field. Also some excepting outlandish stories discredits real research and some I know of in the scientific circles keep quiet about all this because of all the sigma attached to the UFO subject. And the fact I have to waste my time responding to all this rather than trying to find the facts or some trail of evidence indicates all that is wrong with so called UFO investigations.

[Jake]

Speak for yourself before you speak for anyone else! Painting everyone with that broad statement is not necessary. This is a discussion! Do we have your okay to continue?

I read your post several times, looking for the value. This can't be verified so there is no use in discussing it? Clearly you are wrong. We can bounce this info off each other if we want to! If you would rather not discuss it, by all means,, move along.




All this really bothers me, unverifiable information or verifiable from dubious sources, and the worse thing people lap it up like it was fact. I have noticed people in so called UFO circles like the hype, the sensational, and the sigma of the whole leaked information entourage, which is wide open to misinformation and disinformation from government and non government sources, and the worse of all some of it could be true, yet there is no way except to the believers of providing evidence to such a degree to stand up under intensive scrutiny. People wish to believe, which in some occasions isn't based upon rational investigative techniques or information, but an sensational appetite to believe because they wish to believe it.

Drawing wrong conclusions. Do not believe anything without verification, some of this could be true, but some believe for the sake of believing or because the masses believe it. I have been doing documented research for 25 years in the intelligence field, I have had all sorts of information and frankly dirty tricks come my way. Caution is the better part of valour as they say. Discuss yes, try to find strengths and weaknesses in all this yes, but keep an open mind, for there is a lot of manipulation going on in UFO circles, this is why I keep out of the entire UFO community some of which is bickering amongst themselves but that is down to personality some times and your going to get that any way in any field. Also some excepting outlandish stories discredits real research and some I know of in the scientific circles keep quiet about all this because of all the sigma attached to the UFO subject. And the fact I have to waste my time responding to all this rather than trying to find the facts or some trail of evidence indicates all that is wrong with so called UFO investigations.

You don't HAVE to do anything here. You are not the information police! This discussion holds value wether you like it or not! It is merely a discussion... Your point is taken. Thank you. We are All researching here!

I haven't been able to verify, physically,, that the moon even exists... But for the sake of conversation,, im going to assume it exists...

I am quite turned off by folks who demand that their Beliefs be considered as evidence.. you and I would agree..

An experienced researcher shouldn't simply throw stones! If you walk only where there is proof, then you walk in a very small box.

I HAVE verified it for myself! I do NOT demand or even ask that you BELIEVE me. This is a discussion!

Trust me, I lament the "AH BLEEZE!" Argument as much as you!

Can we move forward?
Jake

[bogeyman]

Speak for yourself before you speak for anyone else! Painting everyone with that broad statement is not necessary. This is a discussion! Do we have your okay to continue?

I read your post several times, looking for the value. This can't be verified so there is no use in discussing it? Clearly you are wrong. We can bounce this info off each other if we want to! If you would rather not discuss it, by all means,, move along.




All this really bothers me, unverifiable information or verifiable from dubious sources, and the worse thing people lap it up like it was fact. I have noticed people in so called UFO circles like the hype, the sensational, and the sigma of the whole leaked information entourage, which is wide open to misinformation and disinformation from government and non government sources, and the worse of all some of it could be true, yet there is no way except to the believers of providing evidence to such a degree to stand up under intensive scrutiny. People wish to believe, which in some occasions isn't based upon rational investigative techniques or information, but an sensational appetite to believe because they wish to believe it.

Drawing wrong conclusions. Do not believe anything without verification, some of this could be true, but some believe for the sake of believing or because the masses believe it. I have been doing documented research for 25 years in the intelligence field, I have had all sorts of information and frankly dirty tricks come my way. Caution is the better part of valour as they say. Discuss yes, try to find strengths and weaknesses in all this yes, but keep an open mind, for there is a lot of manipulation going on in UFO circles, this is why I keep out of the entire UFO community some of which is bickering amongst themselves but that is down to personality some times and your going to get that any way in any field. Also some excepting outlandish stories discredits real research and some I know of in the scientific circles keep quiet about all this because of all the sigma attached to the UFO subject. And the fact I have to waste my time responding to all this rather than trying to find the facts or some trail of evidence indicates all that is wrong with so called UFO investigations.

You don't HAVE to do anything here. You are not the information police! This discussion holds value wether you like it or not! It is merely a discussion... Your point is taken. Thank you. We are All researching here!

I haven't been able to verify, physically,, that the moon even exists... But for the sake of conversation,, im going to assume it exists...

I am quite turned off by folks who demand that their Beliefs be considered as evidence.. you and I would agree..

An experienced researcher shouldn't simply throw stones! If you walk only where there is proof, then you walk in a very small box.

I HAVE verified it for myself! I do NOT demand or even ask that you BELIEVE me. This is a discussion!

Trust me, I lament the "AH BLEEZE!" Argument as much as you!

Can we move forward?
Jake

This is an emotional and frankly irrational response, and bewildering to say the least, if I behaved like this trying to obtain information from the various intelligence elements in the US and elsewhere I wouldn't get very far, I do not involve the personal in any of this only the evidence that can be seen, and research well in the document field in UFO circles is few and far between. Don't take things to heart think clearly, and unemotionally this is why so called researchers in the UFO field fail because they are way too emotionally and always trying to prove a point, a point which frankly hasn't been forthcoming regarding verifiable scientific evidence that would be sustainable in mainstream scientific circles, hence the UFO subject remains in the realms of quackery to some. This also indicates why I keep out of all this, it is peoples mentality, I do not have any beliefs as such, only what can be verify as evidence in scientific circles or officially confirmed that can be verified by evidence which is expectable under investigation by professionals. The Moon has been proved to exist and moon rocks have been obtained by the Apollo missions, I and many others in the scientific fields have seen and been provided evidence. Go to a museum you can seen the moon rocks there.

[Jake]

This is an emotional and frankly irrational response, and bewildering to say the least, if I behaved like this trying to obtain information from the various intelligence elements in the US and elsewhere I wouldn't get very far,

This is a discussion forum! Not the intellegence community! Frankly ive got zero faith left in the INTELLEGENCE community!

Your bewilderment is your own!

Has someone shown you proof that there is nothing on the moon? No, of course not! That is simply your BELIEF!!

Anyone in the Intelegence community have proof of the same? No, of course not! Does this community demand proof when they have none themselves? Yes, of course they do! That's not an intelligent community whatsoever!

Your angle is appreciated! Its just not that helpful.... If we refuse to discuss anything because nobody can offer proof, then we cant discuss Most things! This is not a court of law.. it's a DISCUSSION!

Jake.

[Bill Ryan]

The Moon has been proved to exist and moon rocks have been obtained by the Apollo missions, I and many others in the scientific fields have seen and been provided evidence. Go to a museum you can seen the moon rocks there.

Interesting discussion — let's stay calm, and we can maybe all learn something from one another! (And from external sources, too)

Re the moon rocks, they may well come from the moon (I'm not qualified to say or know!). But we have no idea how they got back here, really. They could have been retrieved by entirely different missions, which we don't know about, and then used to bolster the Apollo story. One has to admit that's possible.

Regarding witness testimony, well — it'd be admissible in court. That's what witnesses do: report on what they experienced when no-one else present was there to know. It has to count for something.

Here, we're a degree of separation away from that — we're being told what a witness reported, but we don't know his name or face. But it still counts for something.

In a realm where most of us are flying pretty much blind, and are dependent on information fed to us by others closer to the scene(s), we have little choice but to weed through everything we're shown or told, and then make up our own minds what's likely to be true. Solid, cast-iron proof of anything? It may never happen. People are still arguing about whether the Earth is round. :)

Do please read this post of mine from a few days ago, where I talk about the distinction between evidence and proof, and what we're all (kind of!) trying to do here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83133-The-Corey-Goode-affair-various-updates-from-David-Wilcock&p=985726&viewfull=1#post985726

These are all dots on the graph, that make up a shape. What we see the shape to be may depend on our own filters and beliefs, but personally, what seems to emerge clearly for me is that we did indeed go to the moon (somehow), but the footage we all saw was created in a studio by Stanley Kubrick. At what point the video feed was switched, and why, are interesting questions. Ted Twietmeyer's story seems to add to that mounting pile of evidence... again, in my eyes.

[bogeyman]

The Moon has been proved to exist and moon rocks have been obtained by the Apollo missions, I and many others in the scientific fields have seen and been provided evidence. Go to a museum you can seen the moon rocks there.

Interesting discussion — let's stay calm, and we can maybe all learn something from one another! (And from external sources, too)

Re the moon rocks, they may well come from the moon (I'm not qualified to say or know!). But we have no idea how they got back here, really. They could have been retrieved by entirely different missions, which we don't know about, and then used to bolster the Apollo story. One has to admit that's possible.

Regarding witness testimony, well — it'd be admissible in court. That's what witnesses do: report on what they experienced when no-one else present was there to know. It has to count for something.

Here, we're a degree of separation away from that — we're being told what a witness reported, but we don't know his name or face. But it still counts for something.

In a realm where most of us are flying pretty much blind, and are dependent on information fed to us by others closer to the scene(s), we have little choice but to weed through everything we're shown or told, and then make up our own minds what's likely to be true. Solid, cast-iron proof of anything? It may never happen. People are still arguing about whether the Earth is round. :)

Do please read this post of mine from a few days ago, where I talk about the distinction between evidence and proof, and what we're all (kind of!) trying to do here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83133-The-Corey-Goode-affair-various-updates-from-David-Wilcock&p=985726&viewfull=1#post985726

These are all dots on the graph, that make up a shape. What we see the shape to be may depend on our own filters and beliefs, but personally, what seems to emerge clearly for me is that we did indeed go to the moon (somehow), but the footage we all saw was created in a studio by Stanley Kubrick. At what point the video feed was switched, and why, are interesting questions. Ted Twietmeyer's story seems to add to that mounting pile of evidence... again, in my eyes.

Something taught me a lesson about evidence it is very subjective. Evidence to one isn't to another, including personal testimony and scientific evidence this is where peoples person experiences, mentality, education and many other factors come into question. We could even question our reality as such....there has to be a cut off point. Court testimonies can be false then so can official statements, documents, and scientific evidence. It can also be consider true now, but not in the future, so you could say it is all a fluid constantly changing with time. Each person sees the world differently from everybody else, this too effects judgements, evidence and all sorts of other things, and has many ramifications.

High strangeness cases regarding UFO matters are a dilemma, and whether evidence even comes into it is questionable, it is a matter of personal experience which may be separate from what is deemed expectable evidence in some countries and not deemed expectable in others.

[Jake]

I cannot disagree with any of this! :) I'll maybe even go further and say that Proof is much more slippery, in that it forces a judgement on already subjective evidence. I posit that if one looks at the evidence without bias or judgment, then -proof- disapears. It seems to me that the word Proof indicates a bias! Not altogether, of course. I don't recommend that we throw proof out the window! Lol...

Sorry, Bill if we took this a bit off topic.

Cheers,
Jake









The Moon has been proved to exist and moon rocks have been obtained by the Apollo missions, I and many others in the scientific fields have seen and been provided evidence. Go to a museum you can seen the moon rocks there.

Interesting discussion — let's stay calm, and we can maybe all learn something from one another! (And from external sources, too)

Re the moon rocks, they may well come from the moon (I'm not qualified to say or know!). But we have no idea how they got back here, really. They could have been retrieved by entirely different missions, which we don't know about, and then used to bolster the Apollo story. One has to admit that's possible.

Regarding witness testimony, well — it'd be admissible in court. That's what witnesses do: report on what they experienced when no-one else present was there to know. It has to count for something.

Here, we're a degree of separation away from that — we're being told what a witness reported, but we don't know his name or face. But it still counts for something.

In a realm where most of us are flying pretty much blind, and are dependent on information fed to us by others closer to the scene(s), we have little choice but to weed through everything we're shown or told, and then make up our own minds what's likely to be true. Solid, cast-iron proof of anything? It may never happen. People are still arguing about whether the Earth is round. :)

Do please read this post of mine from a few days ago, where I talk about the distinction between evidence and proof, and what we're all (kind of!) trying to do here:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83133-The-Corey-Goode-affair-various-updates-from-David-Wilcock&p=985726&viewfull=1#post985726

These are all dots on the graph, that make up a shape. What we see the shape to be may depend on our own filters and beliefs, but personally, what seems to emerge clearly for me is that we did indeed go to the moon (somehow), but the footage we all saw was created in a studio by Stanley Kubrick. At what point the video feed was switched, and why, are interesting questions. Ted Twietmeyer's story seems to add to that mounting pile of evidence... again, in my eyes.

Something taught me a lesson about evidence it is very subjective. Evidence to one isn't to another, including personal testimony and scientific evidence this is where peoples person experiences, mentality, education and many other factors come into question. We could even question our reality as such....there has to be a cut off point. Court testimonies can be false then so can official statements, documents, and scientific evidence. It can also be consider true now, but not in the future, so you could say it is all a fluid constantly changing with time. Each person sees the world differently from everybody else, this too effects judgements, evidence and all sorts of other things, and has many ramifications.

High strangeness cases regarding UFO matters are a dilemma, and whether evidence even comes into it is questionable, it is a matter of personal experience which may be separate from what is deemed expectable evidence in some countries and not deemed expectable in others.

[Cidersomerset]

I was on jury service for two weeks in feb this year at Taunton Crown Court and I
sat on three cases and it was a sobering experience , in a intimidating old court
room , knowing that the fate of the defendant could ultimately be in the hands of
me and my fellow 11 jurors. Unless the decision does not go to the jury room. We
all listened to the same facts and presentations from both prosecution and
defence , but we did not all agree on the verdict of one of the cases and another we
did and the third , the case collapsed and the defendant changed his plea . So the
point is as humans we may see/hear facts , but interpret them differently for
various reasons , that's the point of this discussion we are not all going to agree
and 'gut' reaction and intuition comes into play . The Judge told us time and time
again to stick to the facts , but that's not how the human mind works .

==============================================
==============================================

Another factual argument is the 'false flag' attack on the Liberty, and I have
watched 8 or 9 vids and articles on the incident yesterday and today and its pretty
obvious to me it was a deliberate attack. Yet the official Israeli view it was a
mistake and the US is still officially trying to cover it up.

Ironically the most comprehensive doc so far is a BBC one from 2001 , which if I
had watched first would of been the headline on the thread. It covers the basic
account of the events by survivors and official sources then goes into 'operation
Cyanide' , a joint CIA/Mossad plan to destroy the Liberty blame Egypt and nuke
Cairo and create greater Israel 40 years earlier than they are still trying to do in the
Middle East now.

Far fetched ? That's the official view yet a mainstream BBC and other docs claim its
true with a few variations , and all the crew and military involved knew at the time
it was a deliberate attack , and covered up immediately by Admiral Kid , acting
under the orders of the commander in chief President Lyndon Johnson.

USS Liberty Dead in the Water (Full Movie) Americans Murdered by Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52U-uXmhJ_M

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84321-Al-Jazeera-The-Day-Israel-Attacked-America-the-first-false-flag-.....-USS-Liberty&p=986895&viewfull=1#post986895

==============================================
==============================================

The Jimmy Saville thread is speculation , but much of whats on it is
true and is going on daily , and there are many other threads discussed
that you either believe or not , or are just unsure ?

Anyway back to the moon this is a interesting presentation. Marcus
Allen a professional photographer is analysing many photos and
commenting on them...

The Moon Landings Fact or Fiction complete fixed

0mzh-CWImMA

Published on 23 Mar 2013

Marcus Allen a photographer for over 40 years looks into the moon landings....
He starts off comparing the Soviet space programme at the time. He shows
how the propaganda game was played and shows some photos of cosmonauts
who were airbrushed from official history to hide failure. In fact Yuri Gagarin
was the 10th Russian Cosmonauts in orbit not the first....


http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/146084main_yurig_516.jpg

[kirolak]

Incredible! I detailed my Moon experiments in mee wee book...


""""My next chance came on April 21st, not quite a month later. Another mid-day OBE that was crystal clear and lucid. I went out into the street, located the moon, charged up energy, focused all my thought and will, and, poof; NOTHING. Instant-projecting to far away locations is has been a very basic undertaking in many OBE’s. Not this one. I remember grinning and being quite tickled at the fact that something seemed to be stopping me from my ’moon-jump’ attempts. I sat Indian-style and hovered in the street with my eyes closed. I tried again. I remember feeling the same sensations that I had felt in the past when traveling long distances. Very amazing feeling. Everything went pitch black. I know that I had made it to the moon, but I had lost my vision. To make matters worse, I was suddenly hit with the strongest urge to get the hell out of there. It was sudden and intense! So, I got the hell out of there! There seems to be more to the moon than meets the eye, and I am wondering if I should continue with theses experiments. I certainly had other things that I could be doing.  

    One of my final attempts to make it to the moon occurred on Sunday, May 6th 2007. After a fairly easy exit, I made it out into the dining room area before I remembered my goals/experiments. I was going to try to get to the moon again. That is where my memory of this event ends abruptly. I do not know how long it had been, but when I came to, I was sobbing from whatever had been occurring. I had a dreadful feeling about trying to get to the moon, and I had an overwhelming experience that I did not remember, but the message came through loud and clear. STAY AWAY FROM THE MOON! I wanted to remember what happened but, at the same time, I was terrified at what I thought probably happened. I do not know the details, but I feel strongly that there are intelligences that are not human that are protective of the moon! As absurd as it may sound, this is what I learned while I was out of my body! I decided that I had had enough of this particular experiment. I would still keep it on the ‘back burner’ but I will not actively pursue the moon experiments too much from here on.

    I was learning a lot. It seemed that I had opened up a can of worms. My OBE’s started becoming more ASTRAL than dense-astral, or, RTZ. The information fields that I was ‘surfing’ were not going to be kind to me. Some of the truths that we find are going to be dreadful. Much of the information is devastating, as I am becoming aware of different groups of multidimensional E.T.’s. This was not the answer that I was expecting to get. I was just trying to get to the moon for fun. Be careful what you ask for. (Or be prepared, whichever works best for you.)""""









Take this for what it is worth:

I was warned to not OBE, astral project, or 'remote view' the moon.

I did it anyway. Time period, 2010'ish (year)

I looked for specific human landing sites. Not the 'other', due to the issues that were spoken of in Ingo's book. I was careful to not look for anything else, as that sort of attention....

What I did find was a site where three or four advanced looking human 'space suited' individuals were all dead, with their helmets opened. Around them, were some crates. Nothing else. I surmised that it was an abandoned landing, or specifically a recovery loading site. I surmised that the individuals left there had possibly made a choice. That it was was cargo....or them. No room for both. They chose cargo, and stayed behind. My best guess was it was a deep space program artifact recovery attempt, from the early 70's, with more advanced gear (space suits) then we then (or now) know of. The other option is that it may not have been possible to recover these men. Their being left there may have been out of the hands of those involved.

incredible!

Jake

Fascinating! FWIW, have also tried to project to the moon, but had to turn back in a state of sheer terror as the moon face loomed up in front of me. . .even the word moon, or moons, is enough to disturb me now, it actually makes me nauseous.

[bogeyman]

Many questions here, and I will speculate or ponder towards the following possibilities:

Moon landing footage was doctored to some degree due to the present of unknowns in the background
Pictures were doctored while on the Moon due to structures found, and UFO activities.
Transmissions to and from Apollo spacecraft were cut in some places due to unusual noises and other activities including astronauts reporting UFO activity
Political ramifications if something when wrong regard the Apollo missions
Interference with the spacecraft's from an outside source
Dark side of the moon could have possible structures on them disenable by those aboard Apollo and other missions

There is a book called Our Mysterious Space Ship Moon by Don Wilson which alleged provided some transcripts of some of the usual activity encounter by Apollo and other missions in space. If activity is numerous and detected by the militaries around the world and under our oceans then it is a possibility that it occurred in space with equal intensity.

[Carmody]

well, that little moon admission has the ramifications that such things tend to have.

I saw two ufo's the next day, ie, yesterday. One in the afternoon, a largish mothership type that looked like an oversized plane, so big that I've never seen a plane that big. bigger than an antanov 225 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya). There is actually nothing known to be bigger. It was moving at below stall speed. I asked a friend if they saw it, and not they did not.

Later in the same day, in the evening, about 10pm (well after dark), another.

Which lead to an immediate astral projection, when first falling asleep but 'exiting' with such speed, that I'd swear I was being pulled out, not moving naturally. I slammed it to a stop, immediately.

And that is where things sit for the moment.

[KiwiElf]

If we go back through historical info, early astronomers have noted "strange things" moving around on the moon over the last two centuries; lights, "UFO's" changing landscapes and so on (and that's just on the side we see!)

[Carmody]

well, that little moon admission has the ramifications that such things tend to have.

I saw two ufo's the next day, ie, yesterday. One in the afternoon, a largish mothership type that looked like an oversized plane, so big that I've never seen a plane that big. bigger than an antanov 225 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya). There is actually nothing known to be bigger. It was moving at below stall speed. I asked a friend if they saw it, and not they did not.

Later in the same day, in the evening, about 10pm (well after dark), another.

Which lead to an immediate astral projection, when first falling asleep but 'exiting' with such speed, that I'd swear I was being pulled out, not moving naturally. I slammed it to a stop, immediately.

And that is where things sit for the moment.

And then another UFO, the next day, in the middle of the afternoon, moving between two clouds overhead, in the middle of a thunderstorm.

[take]

It was moving at below stall speed. I asked a friend if they saw it, and not they did not.

Later in the same day, in the evening, about 10pm (well after dark), another.

Which lead to an immediate astral projection, when first falling asleep but 'exiting' with such speed, that I'd swear I was being pulled out, not moving naturally. I slammed it to a stop, immediately.

Reminds me when a friend of mine had similar experiences once.. turned out to be schizhophrenia.
I'm genuinely worried about you.

[quiltinggrandma]

Yes cardillac,it was richard nixon.

[araucaria]

It was moving at below stall speed. I asked a friend if they saw it, and not they did not.

Later in the same day, in the evening, about 10pm (well after dark), another.

Which lead to an immediate astral projection, when first falling asleep but 'exiting' with such speed, that I'd swear I was being pulled out, not moving naturally. I slammed it to a stop, immediately.

Reminds me when a friend of mine had similar experiences once.. turned out to be schizhophrenia.
I'm genuinely worried about you.
I don’t think you need to worry overly for Carmody. You are using a diagnostic term applied to a condition not fully understood by western medicine whereby the symptoms are being dysfunctional in normal society. Such people are only dysfunctional to the extent that they don’t know what is happening to them and there is no one with a proper explanation. Carmody on the other hand, who will doubtless explain for himself, has experiences that he does understand to a considerable degree and which he controls, that is until he reaches the barrier of outside interference.