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marielle
18th August 2015, 19:46
Although I gave this thread a catchy title, I’m really only going to discuss my experiences over the last 18 months with menopause, doctors, and hormone replacement therapy. My opinions are controversial and I’m not telling anyone what to do—every woman must find her own way through this “change-of-life”.

Summary
After being on trans-dermal bioidentical estradiol (estrogen) and progesterone for about a year, I have personally seen the following conditions completely reversed:

• Hot flashes gone
• Chronic urinary tract infections cured (vaginal atrophy is GONE!)
• Painful intercourse gone (another symptom of vaginal atrophy)
• Hair loss reversed—full head of hair again
• Premature grey hair turned back to brown
• Insomnia gone—sleeping well now
• Sore joints gone
• High cholesterol gone
• Heart palpitations almost gone (I’ve had them all my life, though)
• Extreme angst and temper flare-ups gone

Other conditions that are reversed by estradiol that I have NOT experienced because I wasn’t deficient long enough for these to manifest (thank God):

• Bone loss
• Brain fog (early sign of dementia)
• Mid-section weight gain (muffin top)
• High blood pressure

My Experience
Menopause hit me like a ton of bricks. In the first half of 2014 I went from feeling great to wanting to jump off a bridge. I talked to my primary doctor about hormone replacement therapy but she refused because I would not get a mammogram. Fine. I really wanted to avoid hormones anyway, because, like most women, I believed the narrative that they are “bad” for me. I researched and tried many natural solutions that did absolutely nothing to help me.

Finally, I found some information on bioidentical hormones to treat menopause. Bioidentical hormones are made from plants but are molecularly identical to the human versions. Looking at them under a microscope, a scientist cannot tell the difference between them. I ended up finding an anti-aging doctor who put me on his particular protocol of trans-dermal bioidentical hormones, paleo diet, and supplements. My first blood test, before I started taking the hormones, showed my estradiol level was that of an eighty year old woman! No wonder I was so miserable—my hormone levels literally fell off a cliff.

The protocol I’m on involves “cycling” or taking daily estradiol and 12 consecutive days of progesterone per month to trigger a withdrawal bleed. In other words, 2 days after I stop taking the progesterone, I have a period for 3-4 days, even though I’m no longer ovulating. Most of my friends have balked at that right then and there! In order to reverse all my symptoms (and many more that I hadn’t had the pleasure of experiencing yet) I need to take high doses of estradiol. To minimize the risk to my uterus of endometriosis, I have to “clean it out” every month. To cycle every month is controversial, even among doctors that treat menopause with bioidenticals, but it’s working for me.

I have a long-time boyfriend and, although I need to make sure he does not come into contact with my hormones, he couldn’t be more pleased with the results. Sex is fun again. But, he is really jealous of my brown hair! He couldn’t believe it when the grey started disappearing. Actually, I was pretty shocked, too, because I wasn’t expecting it. I did wonder why my four brothers, close in age to me, had no grey yet I had a full head of it. Well, it turns out that my hair had turned grey prematurely and was falling out due to the loss of estrogen. Once I replaced the estrogen, it started growing in dark and full again.

Breast Cancer?
What about breast cancer? Yes, this is controversial because so many people are screaming about estrogen and breast cancer, but, in my opinion, the evidence that implicates estrogen as causing breast cancer is flawed. I’m not going to argue this at all. Many doctors who specialize in treating menopause have come to the same conclusion. The truth is out there and there is also a lot of bad information. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

More information:
http://www.amazon.com/Screaming-Heard-Hormonal-Connections-Suspect/dp/0871319144
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Hormone-Balance-Women-Exuberance/dp/0743406664
http://www.menopausepower.com/ (I only purchased her book for $27)

I also have about ten other books that I have purchased and studied thoroughly but the ones above are the best and they are all written by medical doctors that specialize in treating menopause.

Follow the Money
Unfortunately, the medical and pharmaceutical industries make a FORTUNE treating all the symptoms of menopause. Examples of these treatments are taking statin (cholesterol lowering) drugs, bisphosphonates for bone loss, antacids, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), sleeping pills, antidepressants, and anti-anxiety medications. My primary doctor wanted me to start taking low-doses of antibiotics full time to address my chronic urinary tract infections. No thanks!

All of this suffering could be avoided entirely by simply treating menopause since many of those conditions are caused by the loss of estrogen. Here is a quote from Menopause Power by Dr. Schwarzbein:


That the loss of E2 [estradiol] & P4 [progesterone] causes and exacerbates metabolic imbalance is the reason to view menopause in a whole new light -to appreciate its inevitable, damaging effect on a woman's health and longevity.
Back when most women died in their fifties and sixties, primarily from infectious disease, they were not living that many years after the onset of menopause. Therefore, the absence of E2 & P4 did not have a substantial impact on their health. They died before the detrimental effects manifested. Today, however, women are living into their seventies, eighties, and beyond, and typically die from degenerative diseases, which, as you now understand, are caused by metabolic imbalance. They are living with the absence of E2 & P4 for decades, and it is becoming more and more evident that the loss of the sex hormones plays a significant role in undermining their health and promoting and accelerating the degenerative diseases of aging. The good news is, women are living longer. The bad news is, we are living long enough for metabolic imbalance to catch up with us and cause us to "fall apart."

Conclusion
This treatment isn’t cheap, unfortunately. I’m spending about $1500 to $2000 a year on compounded creams, doctor visits, and labs every three months. However, since my quality of life would be unacceptable without it, I make it work out. I would prefer to just be able to buy estradiol over the counter, though. Progesterone is already available OTC, but estradiol is the critical hormone I need.

If you feel motivated to look for a doctor that uses bioidentical hormones to treat menopause, please make sure to listen to your own body! It seems like the Wild West out there—every doctor has a different protocol and not many doctors are willing to let you experiment to figure out what works best for you. My body knows best and I’ve had to tweak the protocol from my doctor (I substantially reduced the amount of progesterone I use) and I doubt he would be willing to let me try estradiol pellets inserted in my arm every three months, which I’d like to try because it would just be much easier. I’m still researching and tweaking this and that…and sometimes suffering the consequences. This has not been an easy road at all, but I have no other alternatives. For me, life without estrogen is not worth living.

Good luck :heart:

Addendum 1 : Cheaper Options
If a woman is suffering from a lack of estrogen, then any estrogen is better than nothing. My Mom has been taking Premarin (horse estrogen!) for 30 years and stubbornly refused to switch to anything else. Recently her insurance company stopped paying for it, and, since it’s quite expensive, I was able to get her to ask her doctor for an Estrace prescription. He gave her a prescription for generic Estrace for 3 months and it was filled by the local CVS pharmacy for $30 (90 tablets of .5 mg estradiol) and it was NOT covered by her insurance, either. Taking estrogen orally is not ideal because the liver gets a first pass at the hormones which produces metabolites that must be excreted. Many women who take Estrace have found ways to make the most of their doses by dissolving them in their cheeks, under their tongues, or inserting vaginally. Here is a website that discusses this:

http://surmeno.blogspot.com/2006/04/transbuccal-use-of-estrace-support-for.html

But, even taking Estrace (estradiol) orally is better than nothing.

Selkie
18th August 2015, 19:52
Wow...I am so glad that you found something that makes you feel better. I never went on estrogen, myself, but then, I didn't really feel the need, so I guess I'm lucky.

prc
18th August 2015, 21:24
Thank you for sharing this experience on the forum. I did not realise that high cholesterol could be due to low estrogen level.
Kind Regards! :)

Violet
18th August 2015, 22:49
Hi Marielle, thanks for sharing your story with us. Out of curiosity. Was fenugreek among the natural remedies you tried out prior to this treatment?

marielle
18th August 2015, 23:12
Hi Marielle, thanks for sharing your story with us. Out of curiosity. Was fenugreek among the natural remedies you tried out prior to this treatment?

No, I tried black cohosh and a mix of herbs called Estroven and I just looked at the bottle--no fenugreek. I also tried an OTC remedy from Amazon called Estro-Life, which contains bioidentical estriol, which is a much weaker form of human estrogen. This product actually did help with the hot-flashes but I had already made my appointment with the doctor and decided to keep it. I'm glad I did because my body needed estradiol to reverse *all* the degenerative effects, not just address the hot-flashes.

However, this stuff did work for my hot flashes:

http://www.amazon.com/Estro-life-Irritability-Fragrance-Free-Bio-Identical-competitor/dp/B004XJIDEO

Violet
18th August 2015, 23:39
Thank you, Marielle. The reason I'm asking is because in the mediterranean countries (e.g. Italy, Greece, and wider North Africa) women have been known to use fenugreek for "female problems" for centuries, and when you said natural that's the first thing I thought of. These problems include lactating (which only becomes a problem when there isn't enough milk; fenugreek stimulates milk production. I tried this myself, comparatively, it does work), hormonal fluctuations tout court and also menopause. The only problem is the smell, it will come right out of your pores the very next day, but it's efficient enough for the women to keep recommending it, and the key is...estrogen:


Abstract
BACKGROUND & OBJECTIVES:
Trigonella foenum graecum commonly known as fenugreek, has been widely cultivated in Asia, Africa and Mediterranean countries for the edible and medicinal values of its seeds. Earlier reports show that fenugreek seeds provide a mastogenic effect resulting in enhanced breast size. However, very little is known about its estrogenic effect. The present study investigated the effect of chloroform extracts of fenugreek seeds (FCE) in breast cancer cells for its estrogenic effect, and to assess its capacity as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy (HRT).


METHODS:
The effect of FCE on cell proliferation of estrogen receptor (ER) positive breast cancer cells, MCF-7 was studied by MTT assay at a concentration range of 20 to 320 microg/ml. The competitive ER binding assay (HAP assay) was done to find out the ER binding capacity of the extract. Transfection and reporter assay (DLR assay), and RT- PCR with an estrogen responsive gene pS2 were done to find out the transcriptional regulatory activity of FCE.

RESULTS:
FCE stimulated the proliferation of MCF-7 cells, showed binding to ER (IC(50) = 185.6 +/- 32.8 microg/ ml) and acted as an agonist for ER mediated transcription via ERE. It also induced the expression of estrogen responsive gene pS2 in MCF-7 cells.


INTERPRETATION & CONCLUSION:
Our study provided the evidence for estrogenic activities of fenugreek seeds. Further in vitro and in vivo studies could demonstrate its suitability as an alternative to HRT.

From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571172

Michelle Marie
19th August 2015, 00:21
Wow...I am so glad that you found something that makes you feel better. I never went on estrogen, myself, but then, I didn't really feel the need, so I guess I'm lucky.

I never went on estrogen or saw a medical dr when I went through menopause. I went through the natural process naturally. However, I did receive an amazing food supplement from an aryvedic dr, and it was from India and it tasted really good.

In fact, in my experience, the more I listen to my body and respond, the happier I am that I've maintained my own authority over my body. The less I go to pharma-trained med Drs, the healthier I am. (Never)

I honor whatever works for each person, and am happy to be sovereign and responsible for my health choices and learning more and more consciousness techniques for perfect health. Health happens from the inside out, from my experience, not from the outside in--including whose idea will win and effect my physical experience.

Thanks for sharing!

Loads of love,
Michelle Marie

marielle
19th August 2015, 15:28
I added an addendum for cheaper options to the bottom of my opening post.

marielle
19th August 2015, 16:03
Unfortunately, many women discount accelerated signs of aging because they don’t realize those signs and symptoms are due to their ovaries not producing the estrogen needed by the rest of their bodies to function well.

I have a good friend, a screenwriter in her 50s, and last December we had lunch. The conversation went along like this:


L: I haven’t been able to write or focus on anything. I’m just feeling down and like I’m in a rut all the time. I just can’t seem to break out of this funk!

M: Maybe it’s because of menopause—your brain needs estrogen to function at its peak.

L: But I’m not having any hot flashes. I had some hot flashes earlier this year but they went away.

M: It doesn’t matter, your whole body needs estrogen—every part of it and every metabolic system. I have some in my purse and you can try for a few weeks if you like.

A couple of weeks later, she called to say she just had her first full night’s sleep in 2 years and asked if the estrogen was helping her sleep better? I told her, yes, estrogen can definitely help with your sleeping problems. Well, it’s been 8 months and she is now an estrogen junkie like me :bigsmile: and has written 3 screenplays this year.

In fact, I’m squirreling away extra tubes of estradiol cream to supply two of my friends since neither of them will go to a doctor for this.

My screenwriter friend took her dog to the vet recently (she spends more on her dog’s medical care than her own) and casually told him how the estrogen she was taking had turned her life around. He actually got mad and said she should just accept the fact she’s aging and deal with it. It’s amazing our society feels this way when there is such an easy solution—replacing the estrogen our ovaries used to make with an identical copy.

marielle
20th August 2015, 16:40
Dr. Robert Wilson was a gynecologist in the New York area who practiced from the 1920's to the 1960's. In 1965, he published a book called "Feminine Forever" about his experiences with giving his patients hormones. He also briefly discusses how a woman's menopause affects men.

Here is an excerpt from the book of an incident that happened (I'm guessing) in the 1940s or 1950s.

"If you don't cure her, I'll kill her."


A melodramatic and, in retrospect, amusing incident that occurred in my own practice many years ago illuminates the intensity of some husbands' feelings about their wives' menopause.

It was quite late in the evening, toward the end of my consulting hours, when my receptionist told me there was a man in the waiting room who wished to see me. Male patients being a rarity in a gynecologist's practice, I agreed to talk to him, even though he had come without appointment.

A skinny man in his fifties with a sharp and sallow face slid rather furtively through the door. His manner was an unpleasant mixture of embarrassment and agressiveness. For a while he just fidgeted.

"Doc," he finally blurted out, "they tell me you can fix women when they get old and crabby."

I ignored the implied question and let him tell more of his story: "She's driving me nuts. She won't fix meals. She lets me get no sleep. She picks on me all the time. She makes up lies about me. She hits the bottle all day. And we used to be happily married.

"She's been to three doctors already," he continued. "They all tell her it's 'the change' and nothing can be done about it. Now she tells me to get out and never come back. But I won't. It's my home. And if anyone's going, she is."

He reached into his back pocket-in those days shoulder holsters were still unknown-and quietly laid a .32 automatic on the edge of my desk.

"If you don't cure her, I'll kill her."

I looked at him doubtfully. "You think that would be better for you?" I asked cautiously, my mind reeling with all I had heard about armed madmen in doctors' offices. But I was wrong. The man was completely rational.

"I got advanced T.B.," my visitor explained. "I was X-rayed again just last week. My doctor tells me that I have less than a year to live. I want to die in peace-­and I can't if she's around."

My client, I later discovered, was a prominent member of the Brooklyn underworld. The proposed method of dealing with his wife apparently seemed to him quite proper and businesslike. Fortunately no calamity occurred. I accepted his wife as a patient and she responded well to intensive twice-a-week estrogen injections. Her disposition improved noticeably after three weeks, and soon she was very busy taking care of her sick husband.

I heard no more from him directly. He died on schedule and I received an invitation to his elaborate funeral.

I'll be posting more excerpts from this, and other interesting and controversial books, as time permits.

marielle
23rd September 2015, 15:45
Here is a quote from a book called “Sex, Lies, and Menopause”*:

There is a certain faction of the women’s movement that feels that no hormones at all are your best bet for a natural adjustment to aging. They frequently quote the venerable anthropologist Dr. Margaret Mead when describing the “joy” of unmedicated, natural menopause and the thrill of entering the second half of life unencumbered by the responsibilities of children or a career. This has become feminist “gospel” and their credo is best summed up with a term coined by Dr. Mead, postmenopausal zest. …

Gail Sheehy reported in Silent Passages, the “menopausal version” of her best-selling Passages, that Margaret Mead’s daughter testified to the fact that her mother received estrogen shots once a week from midlife until she died. That’s how Margaret ran the Natural History Museum, worked her way through three husbands, reported on exotic cultures, and appeared frequently on The Tonight Show, The Dick Cavett Show, and Merv Griffin.

Maybe Margaret didn’t consider the human-equivalent estrogen she was shooting-up to be a drug? Who knows but I’m not letting anyone make me feel inferior or weak-willed because I now require estrogen to stay sane and happy and healthy.

*This book outlines the Wiley Protocol for bio-identical hormone replacement therapy. I am NOT using this protocol since it mandates high doses of progesterone (too high for me and many other women).

Gatita
2nd October 2015, 02:57
I was on estrogen for a while, following surgical menopause. Slow forward 16 years, and I've discovered that many of my problems, including the berserk uterus and ovaries, we're quite possibly due to an improperly managed case of Hashing two's thyroiditis. I went through the "you're getting older," spiel. Of course of I'm getting older. Time, as we perceive it, is linear. Where is it written in stone, that getting older has to mean falling apart? Nowhere! It might be written in pencil, but I'm not even sure of that. I've recently fired two doctors over their inability to listen. I've considered firing my husband and grandkids for the same reason, but I don't pay them, so it wouldn't really count. I recommend that everyone advocate for yourself. If the doctor gets upset, it's time to find a new one. They work for us, not the other way around.

Nurse Cat