Katherine Albrecht: Windows 10 Is Full Blown Electronic Tyranny [Archive]

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Omni

23rd August 2015, 06:35

deleted---

WhiteLove

23rd August 2015, 09:03

Omniverse, thanks for this! Anyone here know any YouTube video demonstrating the keylogger data being sent over the network? That would be an incredible YouTube video that I'm sure would generate millions of views...! But it's probably sent encrypted in kernel mode so you can't even easily tap into that stream of data eventhough you have "full" access to the machine (and who knows maybe someone else has more access), pretty scary stuff...

Found this:

6XjCA9q7WsQ

cSZ04AZhyM4

Please note, the guy in the video above does not know anything, he has no clue (all he did was to copy a few lines of code from a forum and added his own personal ideas/opinions to it), these things you must confirm by capturing the raw data being logged. The entire possible scope of key logging must be captured since the privacy agreement does not state what the scope of the keylogging is and what processes go into that scope. Now, that information might be out there somewhere, but so far I have not seen it. The only real way you can find out this is by monitoring all data being sent from any network adapter from a computer with W 10 installed, decrypt possible encryptions and then find out exactly what is being sent, how and when. And that requires tons of expertise. If this feature has the origin it seems to have, you can bet that it's not going to be easy to find and turn it off, in fact I think it might not even be possible to turn it off without kernel level access which users or administrators don't have.

There is another issue here as well, which is that the way the data is being collected does not necessarily need to be done through a keylogger. Those characters could be collected at the system level by the system at the receiving end, if the system did not have access to the raw data being received from the user, it could not read it. So the way the data is being collected is important relative to what is stated in the privacy agreement. Every time a new OS is being made, the owners of the OS can decide what access, how the access is distributed and why, in regards to their own access and the normal user/administrator access. How the data is synced up to the cloud might for instance be during wake up/shutdown when the memory is recalled/released, it could be buffered so that chunks of data portions at a time are sent so that users cannot notice anything.

Also, if they don't state how this works, its scope and how you turn it off, then that is an indicator that access to the whats, hows and whys about this are denied to the public.

In general, this is bad news.

I think the real question here is: Can one find the data being logged and sent and prove it. And I bet one can't unless you are a highly skilled security specialist/researcher having inside information about how the OS was built and know how and where to look for it, how it has been embedded/encrypted... The implications of not being able to find the data stream containing the keys being logged, yet at the same time having agreed to allow the keys being logged, those are enormous!

I would like to know what encryption is trusted so much that this is done. I mean it's one thing to want access to all of the users data and get that, it's a different thing if it leaves the system vulnerable to third parties picking up the same data. Just the existence of something like this in an OS appears to make that system unsecure. So the scenario here could be that the whats, hows, and whys about all of this might be unaccessible for "those" security reasons. This in turn leaves normal users with nothing left but a choice that needs to be made.

Cardillac

23rd August 2015, 15:05

if what I've read so far is true Windows 10 is a user's nightmare (we all need to realize anyone who uses Windows has opened up their PC to surveillance); and I continue to be bombarded with ads trying to convince me to "upgrade" to Windows 10 which I flatly refuse; but just coming from a user's standpoint (surveillance aside- we already have that regardless of Windows program labeling) if what I've read is true trying to navigate through Windows 10 is like entering a labyrinth...

please be well all-

Larry

Daughter of Time

23rd August 2015, 19:02

I decided to watch a film on TV last night. During the commercial break, I saw the first ad for "Windows 10". It goes like this:

One happy baby, after another happy baby, after another happy baby, are playing in their cribs on in a play pen, etc.,

The voice says something like this: "their lives will be greatly enhanced because they will grow up with 'Windows 10'".

It made me wonder how on earth these babies' lives would be enhanced! The OP video explains exactly how.

If I were a naïve, unsuspecting parent, would I buy what the commercial promises? Maybe!

Brain washing becomes more subtle and more sophisticated day by day!

Hervé

23rd August 2015, 19:33

Well, their "Free upgrade" is so screwy that it wouldn't even install on my brother's laptop... he got tired of seeing the "Free Upgrade" pop-up window keeping coming back that he finally clicked on the "Yes/OK"... and I spent a good portion of my afternoon attempting to get it to revert to Windows 7... which it finally did.

The latter, though, makes me wonder what kind of "leftovers" are remaining from the botched install?

Anyone remembers the big troubles they had with Windows 8? You know, the one that completely fried some laptops and PCs because the install was performing some "Firmware updates" on some components?

Maybe, with Windows 10, they are more successful with "Firmware updates"? You know... this kind of "Firmware updates": How the NSA’s Firmware Hacking Works and Why It’s So Unsettling (http://www.wired.com/2015/02/nsa-firmware-hacking/)

Karezza

23rd August 2015, 20:21

Thanks Omniverse for the information, I am in agreement with you over your preferred operating systems. Of course whether one is on Windows 10 or another version of Windows may not matter, Microsoft could just have easily packaged those spy features on other versions of Windows through their regular Windows Updates and people would possibly not notice. Once a computer is connected to a network especially one that is online privacy can become scarce. It is believed president Putin and if I remember correctly the Clintons prefer to type up sensitive information by using a particular version of typewriter.

Hervé

23rd August 2015, 20:34

With respect to the "Keylogger" thingy... it's been around for a long while... and I just discovered it not long ago because my cooling fan was hyperventilating... checked "Taskmgr"...

"Monitor.exe" was gobbling up 16 CPU units... ixQuicked "Monitor.exe":

http://www.file.net/img/screenshot/taskman-monitor-exe.png
Monitor.exe process in Windows Task Manager

Description: Monitor.exe is not essential for the Windows OS and causes relatively few problems. Monitor.exe is located in a subfolder of "C:\Program Files". Known file sizes on Windows 8/7/XP are 397,312 bytes (25% of all occurrences), 352,256 bytes and 94 more variants (http://www.file.net/process/monitor.exe.html#). http://www.file.net/img/space.gif

Monitor.exe is not a Windows system file. The program is not visible. The application is loaded during the Windows boot process (see Registry key: MACHINE\Run, MACHINE\User Shell Folders, Run, User Shell Folders, Winlogon\Shell). Monitor.exe is able to record keyboard and mouse inputs and monitor applications. Therefore the technical security rating is 45% dangerous, however you should also read the user reviews.... you know... the things that one sends out as a report to Microsoft when an application quits working... most of the report is made by what "Monitor.exe" recorded just prior to the crash to get the data on what caused the crash... well, at least that's the justification given for its existence.

ThePythonicCow

23rd August 2015, 21:45

Steve Gibson, of Spinrite fame (see Steve's website at http://grc.com -- the "grc" stands for Gibson Research Corp), is one of the all time premier Windows programmers out there, and has been so since the early days of DOS. He runs Windows on all his main systems and knows its internals very well, all the way down to the assembly and hardware levels.

Earlier this year, in his weekly Security Now (https://www.youtube.com/user/TWiTSecurityNow) podcast with Leo Laporte (a must listen to series, now starting its eleventh year, if you're interested in the details of PC and Web security), Steve Gibson mentioned now and then that he was looking forward to trying Windows 10, and would be deciding whether to upgrade his main system(s) to it.

Steve Gibson has now tried Windows 10. He now openly refers to it as a turd (and Steve seldom uses foul language), and he has vowed to never run Windows 10 on his systems.

Ouch :).

ThePythonicCow

23rd August 2015, 21:48

... you know... the things that one sends out as a report to Microsoft when an application quits working... most of the report is made by what "Monitor.exe" recorded just prior to the crash to get the data on what caused the crash... well, at least that's the justification given for its existence.
Microsoft is on my "do not trust" list ... and has been so for a long time. Windows 10 has earned them a higher place on this list.

Calz

23rd August 2015, 22:18

Who is to say with all the "automatic updates" these things won't be slipped into all Windows platforms???

Right?

RunningDeer

23rd August 2015, 23:02

I decided to watch a film on TV last night. During the commercial break, I saw the first ad for "Windows 10".
“A more human way to do.”

Introducing Windows 10 - The future starts now
AFJ1a1D4hdo

Introducing Windows 10 - The future starts now
Gu6vmNz-PhE

Published on Jul 19, 2015
Now with #Windows10 you can create and share in ways you never thought possible. Windows recognizes you, responds to you and even learns with you. Welcome to a more human way to do. Get started at http://windows.com/10

KiwiElf

23rd August 2015, 23:56

Harley

24th August 2015, 03:15

Speaking of updates . . .

Microsoft Kills Patch Notes, Will No Longer Explain Most Windows 10 Updates

August 21, 2015

When Microsoft debuted Windows 10, it began offering significantly less information about KB updates in any given package. Instead of getting a clickable link that provided more than a bare sentence of information, users have to manually search for KB articles based on the given name. While this isn’t difficult, it’s an example of how Redmond has made it a bit more difficult to know what the OS is doing or why it’s doing it. Now, the company has stated that this obfuscation isn’t an artifact of a rushed launch — the company will not explain feature updates unless it deems them significant.

Over the past few weeks, Microsoft has drawn increasing fire for its update policies. To date, Microsoft has released three KB Cumulative Updates (CUs) — KB 3081424 (August 5), KB 3081436 (August 12) and KB 3081438 (August 14). All are described in precisely the same way: “This update includes improvements to enhance the functionality of Windows 10.” All three cumulative updates contain an unexplained bug that traps some PCs in an endless reboot cycle, according to InfoWorld. Some users, who successfully installed the patch, have begun having trouble accessing the Windows Store and downloading updates from it. Others, who had problems with the store after the first CU, have reported that the second or third fixed their problem.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/WU-Update-640x238.png

These cumulative updates are different from previous Windows Update releases in Windows 7 / 8.1. In the past, each KB was downloaded and applied individually, if Microsoft detected that the update should be offered to your system. Now, each cumulative update contains all previous updates. In theory, this allows for a streamlined download and installation process. In practice, it’s causing major problems. Microsoft no longer distinguishes between most security updates, feature updates, and bug fixes. It also gives no information about what bug fixes or feature updates do, which makes it nearly impossible to troubleshoot any given problem.

The Register reached out to Microsoft, hoping for clarification on what level of patch notes the company planned to issue in the future. According to Microsoft, “As we have done in the past, we post KB articles relevant to most updates which we’ll deliver with Windows as a service. Depending on the significance of the update and if it is bringing new functionality to Windows customers, we may choose to do additional promotion of new features as we deploy them.”

Read more at EXTREMETECH (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/212724-microsoft-kills-patch-notes-will-no-longer-explain-most-windows-10-updates?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fextremetech+%28Extremetech%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view)

With their Operating System being proprietary like it is, they are gradually taking away more and more control over it by the End User.

With that on top of all the virus and malware problems you have to contend with, PLUS all of the Third-Party Software/Programs that you (are supposed to) have to buy, I said Forget It years ago and I've been happy ever since.

I'd much rather spend a little time learning something new than I would spending lots of money, I have full control of what comes in and what goes out, and I don't have to be concerned by viruses and malware.

Ubuntu Linux for the past five years.

:)

KiwiElf

26th August 2015, 21:50

Who is to say with all the "automatic updates" these things won't be slipped into all Windows platforms???

Right?

My recommendation would be to get Windows 7 while copies still remain and permanently disable Windows Updates (along with a good malware/virus checker) - and stay off dodgy sites ;)

Either that, or buy an Apple Mac (or run Linux)

Your suspicions are correct, Calz: this from BIN: (readers may wish to click on the link to get all the sublinks in the article)

Windows 7/8/8.1 Updates Spy on You Just Like Windows 10 - How to Disable Telemetry
Tuesday, August 25, 2015 21:39

http://beforeitsnews.com/science-and-technology/2015/08/windows-788-1-updates-spy-on-you-just-like-windows-10-how-to-disable-telemetry-2780752.html

(Before It's News)

There’s been a lot of discussion about Telemetry in Windows as well as avoiding the Windows 10 upgrade. Here is the list of service bulletins we compiled and what they do. It should be noted that even when not installed, they may appear again so this will require some effort on your part. Most people will simply not bother with this but it’s great information for any tech to have at their disposal or simply for research purposes.

If you have already installed Windows and did a few updates, then head over to Control Panel > Programs and Features > View Installed Updates then go from the top to the bottom through the list to ensure none of them is installed, if you do find one installed, then uninstall it, reboot, then check for updates and once it appears right click on it and hide it.

KB2505438 (Although it claims to fix performance issues, it often breaks fonts)
KB2670838 (This update often breaks AERO on Windows 7 and makes some fonts on websites fuzzy. A Windows 7 specific update only, do not install IE10 or 11 otherwise it will be bundled with them, IE9 is the max version you should install to avoid this.
KB2952664 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2976978 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2977759 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2990214 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB3021917 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparatioon + Telemetry)
KB3022345 (Telemetry)
KB3035583 (Windows 10 upgrade preparation)
KB3068708 (Telemetry)
KB3075249 (Telemetry)
KB3080149 (Telemetry)

Thanks Matrix Leader for putting together this list of service bulletins.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/story/windows_updates_to_hide_to_avoid_telemetry_or_windows_10_upgrade.html
Microsoft is pushing KB3075249 and KB3080149 updates for Windows 7/8/8.1 users which can spy on you

Windows 10 has been launched and already installed by more than 50 million users worldwide. It is now a known fact that Windows 10 user data is being reported to Microsoft servers back in Redmond. The jury is still out on whether this is a good or bad practice, but many of the Windows 10 Apps like Cortana depend on getting your preferences correct to serve you better.

This being the case, many Windows users who are not happy with the spying ways of Windows 10, are preferring to stay on with Windows 7/Windows 8 and Window 8.1 as the case (version) might be. For these Windows 7/8/8.1 users, there are a few updates which Microsoft has been pushing through over the last few days.

Namely, KB3075249 and KB3080149, if installed, are known to report your data back to Microsoft servers.

KB3075249 update adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7. The Microsoft support page gives following description for them :

KB3075249 “Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 ”

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/3075249

KB3080149 “This update aligns down-level devices on the same UTC binary that’s released in Windows 10. This update would enable all the down-level devices to receive the software updates, design updates, and additional power and performance tuning.”

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/3080149

In simple words, both these updates, if downloaded and installed, will snoop on you and report back certain data to the Microsoft servers.

Once you have updated your Windows 7/8/8.1 with these updates, your PC is no better than Windows 10, as it will report back your user data.

There is little news about these updates but tech forums are already abuzz about their spying ways. Some users on forums have reported additional updates from Microsoft which are to be avoided :

KB2505438
KB2670838 – Windows 7 Only (breaks AERO functionality and gives you blurry fonts on some websites)
KB2952664
KB2976978 – Windows 8 only
KB3021917
KB3035583
KB3075249

If you are a privacy lover or dont want your data to be sent to unwanted entities, avoid the above updates. All these updates are optional and will not harm your PC if you do not install them.

To stop your Windows 7/8/8.1 PC from downloading these updates, go to your Windows Update, click on the check box besides this updates and hide them.

Do remember, these updates may reappear after a reboot. Therefore keep a check on what your Windows 7/8/8.1 PC updates before you install them.

http://www.techworm.net/2015/08/new-windows-788-1-updates-spy-on-you-just-like-windows-10.html

The following updates bring more thorough telemetry and data collecting features to your older operating systems:

kb3068708
kb3022345
kb3075249
kb3080149

If you don’t wish to share any data whatsoever with Microsoft, you should not install these updates.

http://winaero.com/blog/telemetry-and-data-collection-are-coming-to-windows-7-and-windows-8-too/

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2505438

Symptoms
On a computer that is running Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2, you may experience slow performance in applications that use the DirectWrite API (for example, Windows Internet Explorer 9). Performance traces show that each application is loading all the available fonts instead of relying on the FontCache service to render the fonts.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/kb-2670838-the-evil-update/
KB 2670838 – The EVIL UPDATE
MU
MS7 user asked on
Microsoft:
Why don’t you fix the errors caused by KB 2670838 instead of having my computer re-install it as part of IE 10 without giving me any warning that it was going to do that?
This update has two effects on my system*; 1. For whatever reason, it turns the lower taskbar turquoise, 2. Explorer 9 or 10 and Chrome 25 get a 60 delay in information typed into them with internet speeds reminiscent of dial-up, while Firefox 19 ceases to function at all; The internet becomes essentially non-usable.
I wasted an entire day on this two weeks ago including an hour on the phone with one of your technicians when it was first installed. He had no idea what the problem was and I eventually gave up and uninstalled it. My problems ceased immediately upon its removal.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/kb-2670838-the-evil-update/08bfdb2b-6896-4c34-89c2-16896a25dc3d?auth=1

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2952664
telemetry win 7

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2976978
Compatibility update for Windows 8.1 and Windows 8
The MANIFEST files (.manifest) and the MUM files (.mum) that are installed for each environment are listed separately

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2977759
”Additional file information for Windows 7″ section. MUM, MANIFEST, and the associated security catalog (.cat) files
telemetry

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2990214
Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 7 to a later version of Windows
Important Do not install a language pack after you install this update. If you do, the language-specific changes in the update will not be applied, and you will have to reinstall the update. For more information, see Add language packs to Windows.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3021917
Update to Windows 7 SP1 for performance improvements
This update performs diagnostics in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) in order to determine whether performance issues may be encountered when the latest Windows operating system is installed. Telemetry is sent back to Microsoft for those computers that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP). This update will help Microsoft and its partners deliver better system performance for customers who are seeking to install the latest Windows operating system.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3022345
Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
This update has been replaced by the latest update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry that was first released on June 2, 2015

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583
Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
This update applies to Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) and Internet Explorer 11 (IE11). Before you install this update, check out the Prerequisites section.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3068708
Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
This article describes an update for Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1), and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1. Before you install this update, check out the Prerequisites section.
About this update
This update introduces the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service to existing devices
Additional information
The included service uses SSL (TCP Port 443) to download manifests and upload data to Microsoft when data is available for upload. The service uses the following DNS endpoints:
vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com
This update contains the following two manifests that are occasionally updated by the Diagnostic Tracking Service:
telemetry.ASM-WindowsDefault.json
utc.app.json
The two files are marked as static files in the update. When an advanced user runs the System File Checker Tool (sfc.exe), the files are unintentionally flagged as corrupted. There is no impact or actual corruption on a device that is running this update, and this issue will be fixed in a later service update.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3075249
Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
About this update
This update adds telemetry points to the User Account Control (UAC) feature to collect information on elevations that come from low integrity levels.
This update is provided as an Optional update on Windows Update.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080149
Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
This article describes an update for Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1)
About this update
This package updates the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service to existing devices.

and don’t for get put Updates on > Notify me but don’t automatic download or install then

You pick only the good ones ):- be good or Microsoft will RAT you out.

or get a mac or linux

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MarkMonitor

MarkMonitor Inc. is an American software company founded in 1999. It develops software intended to protect corporate brands from Internet counterfeiting, fraud, piracy and cybersquatting. It also develops and publishes reports on the prevalence of brand abuse on the Internet. MarkMonitor acquired AllDomains in 2001 and DtecNet in 2010

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/markmonitor-to-provide-data-to-help-microsoft-protect-customers-from-phishing-55673552.html

MarkMonitor to Provide Data to Help Microsoft Protect Customers From Phishing
SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ — MarkMonitor(R), a leader
in online corporate identity protection, announced today that it is working
with Microsoft to help combat online identity theft. MarkMonitor’s fraud
detection and response services monitor the Internet around the clock to
detect and confirm phish attacks and other online fraud on behalf of financial
institutions and other corporations.
As a result of this agreement with Microsoft, MarkMonitor will deliver
information about confirmed phish attacks against its customers directly to
Microsoft for use by the company’s Microsoft(R) Phishing Filter and
SmartScreen(TM) Technology.

spacejack

31st August 2015, 18:46

Now is a good time to switch to a linux version such as Ubuntu, or linuxMint (others to).

The Windows free updrade to 10 is simple. Its all about the data. Literally everything you do on your pc will be logged, processed, sold and/or used.

This is done in a lot of ways currently, most programs ask for permissions to access and store certain usage data. Google Chrome is a big example of this, how much data they can take by default without users really knowing (search "google opt out")

The data collection isn't just for quality assurance. Its to monetize your daily life by tracking locations, interests, hobbies, relationships, etc. Also they will provide a sort of low entry point for programs to utilize this data as well. Similar to your phones ability to share location (gps), or tilt controls.

For example they will be able to determine the follow info by default for every windows 10 user:
Business or personal use
male or female
age
accessed websites, duration, frequency
usage cross device
apps installed, accessed, duration etc
usage details (time logged on, time active, clicks, words per minute,)
profession
estimated income
political party
relationships status, related computers/users
location
places traveled
usage intentions (where you will go each day, etc)
So much more

And with this information (and more) they can extrapolate even more. They have algorithms to figure out the info that is more abstract and make predictions. Similar to how Amazon predicts when you will reorder based on consumable purchases.

All this type of tracking is already going on but its been so broken up that there is a lot of guess work due to current privacy restrictions. But basically Windows 10 opens the flood gates for data and its purpose is to monetize anyway possible.

I urge everyone to consider OS alternatives. The main one to suggest is Ubuntu, or another linux flavor. There are versions for whistleblowers that are super secure.

Hopefully this thread can be built on with information displaying these points and with help to move onto another system.

Sean

31st August 2015, 18:55

I'll probably go with ubuntu..so sick of microsoft and their BS..

greybeard

31st August 2015, 19:24

I'll probably go with ubuntu..so sick of microsoft and their BS..

I have used Ubuntu for about 6 years--its fast, trouble free, self maintaining---the speed does not decrease.
Have never had a virus
Most soft ware is free in particular the word processor.
The reason I say that is my wife Rosaline has Windows and has to pay for Word not once, but every year--you can only rent it a year at a time.

I therefore have no hesitation in recommending Ubuntu, if you have enough space on your hard drive you can partition it and put Ubuntu in one section and keep your current windows.
Oh and you can get Ubuntu free
Best wishes
Chris

KiwiElf

31st August 2015, 19:42

There are already two other threads about this, spacejack - perhaps they could be merged? Windows 7 - 8.2 are now equally vulnerable to Updates too. Thanks for the extra warning tho... I'll stick to my Mac ;)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84739-Katherine-Albrecht-Windows-10-Is-Full-Blown-Electronic-Tyranny&p=993122#post993122

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84149-Windows-10-DOOM&p=984432#post984432

Harley

31st August 2015, 20:10

There is a huge amount of resources on the internet, and a simple Google Search will almost always direct you to answers to or help with any problems you might have.

Whether you're just getting started or been using it for awhile, I personally recommend this site:
Easy Linux tips project (https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/Home)

Easy Linux Tips For Beginners And For Advanced Users

Complete starters' guide for Linux Mint and Ubuntu: both are "Linux made easy", or even "Linux for dummies". They are eminently suitable for beginners with Linux, and have become very popular because of that. Both are entirely free, so they won't cost you anything!

Also, to add to what Chris mentioned about the word processor: It is compatible with MS Office/Word.

The program currently provided with the Ubuntu distribution is LibreOffice.

And it's all free! :)

Cardillac

31st August 2015, 21:24

if what I've read is true (not much but very telling) Windows 10 is a nightmare because it's incredibly tedious to navigate, just for starters-

Larry

lucidity

31st August 2015, 23:08

Richard S.

1st September 2015, 13:06

I'd love to be one of those that is dumping Microsoft altogether, but...

How will I get MS Outlook, my IPhone5 to sync their data.

I've looked at SOGO, but I am not convinced it would fit the bill.

Any suggestions?

Snoweagle

2nd September 2015, 09:43

Quite agree about Windows 10 but will go further and state that ALL Microsoft products and enterprises are not for the benefit of the user.

Considering Linux? Then do some research and you will find that Ubuntu is considered by Linux pros as becoming as commercially orientated as Microsoft. Unlike true derivations of Linux providing free open source software, Ubuntu stands accused of promoting proprietary commercial products which trap users into dependance on a sole supplier. Just as Microsoft did and does. Your choice.

Am an ex Microsoft user and now using Linux. Did some research and selected Debian/KDE as my preferred install. But I had a problem in that I didn't know how the "core" system behaved when left to itself. Or in other words, just how good were these free open source programmers?

So I installed the complete package of Debian Wheezy onto an encrypted disc and everything worked super staright out of the box. I also decided to not update at all, any of the packages and simply monitor any corruption or failure during normal usage. (heap loads more in Linux as standard). Other than some tweeks to my settings and preferences, nothing has been updated for nearly a year.

Watching my system being compromised has been insightful. Yes "they" have adjusted some things and my system is now root kitted even though it doesn't register with chkroot, which claims I am safe. Well it isn't, but here is the thing. The invader I believe to be NSA/GCHQ level of insertion which is fine by me as other than monitoring my usage they do not engage in adverts and unnecessary aggro. As I do not do any development on this system I have no fears of intellectual loss. My ISP, Virgin Media has denied me SSL on my email so I dont use it unless an absolute emergency.

But why would I do this and compromise my activities? Quite simple actually, unless you know how they are going to attack you, which I didn't, the only way was to leave the doors unlocked and see how "we" fare with each other. And now having seen how the compromise works I intend preparation of other drives based on my usage with all the protections maxed.

And of course the sweet spot is once my data is backed up I can delete the entire drive and reinstall a new operating system at will wiithout compromising licenses. Ad infinitum.

I'm not an expert in Linux per se though have been a user on and off for a very long time, more focussed on access to embedded projects than anything internet orientated.

My recommendation is research Linux. Try Debian as it provides three or four "front ends" of which my preference is KDE. Install ALL updates. Use only Debian approved scripts and advisements for each activity you perform. I strongly recommend this system for your children as they will take to this as they would an amusement park. (many of the YouTube "pros" teaching Linux are children, young teens, check it out).

There are many derivations of Linux, most are free though some are now creeping towrds the Microsoft and Apple models with proprietary software either compromising privacy or added costs.

Gaia

16th October 2015, 18:52

So what's the deal with Windows 10?

I recently upgraded to Windows 10 1 week ago and it is the worst thing I have done. After the installation, nothing works. My printers, both USB-connected and wireless, do not work. My speakers work but at a very low volume that I can’t hear.

After researching for the cause/solution this is what I found.

1. HP printers purchased before August 2013 do not have drivers for Windows 10.

2. Sound for Dell Studio XPS does not work because there are no drivers from Dell.

Grrrr!!

Lessons learned, dont try to change the Windows OS installed on the pc you buy. Eventually this same trend is going to start hitting mobile. When everyone has a smartphone that can run any app with ease and feel very snappy, the upgrade cycle is going to start to get longer.

shadowstalker

16th October 2015, 18:57

I say never upgrade unless you have no choice.
Try to uninstall windows ten if you can, i am sure there are instructions somewhere on the net for that process

skyflower

16th October 2015, 19:11

My friend has an older computer that was running windows 7. I guess she didn't pay attention to her update settings, and her computer upgraded to Win10 on its own.
Well, next thing you know, her computer goes into power save mode after boot up and does not turn back on.
Oh, she did see the win 10 welcoming window before it went dead.

Limor Wolf

16th October 2015, 19:28

Gaia, sounds like a bummer, perheps you would like to move away from windows

Here is another discussion on the 'wonders' of Windows 10

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84149-Windows-10-DOOM&p=984318&viewfull=1#post984318

Sierra

16th October 2015, 19:36

Nasu

16th October 2015, 19:57

get a mac IMHO... I haven't had a virus since the nineties or any os problems since os 9, again in the late nineties.. Get a mac, if pos... N

Loren

16th October 2015, 20:08

I upgraded recently to 10 and had so many things frustrate me I immediately uninstalled back to windows 8. Mine gave me the option to do so and said I could upgrade back to 10 at any time. Seems to be a common problem.

fifula

16th October 2015, 20:15

@Gaia, don't worry. Lessons learned. Format C drive, install you previous Windows back and stay away from Win10 junk :) Linux distros are great alternative if you're not glued to products like Photoshop or Lightroom (No adobe products on linux I'm afraid). I've tried many of linux distros and can honestly recommend few if you'd like.

@Nasu, you haven't had any viruses because they dont need them to transfer your personal data back to their servers ;)

EWO

16th October 2015, 20:38

MS has tried really hard to update me to Win 10. I followed online guides to hide the updates but MS keeps releasing them again and again with a different size, same name.
Now I have multiple copies of same update in my hidden section.
If you dont want to update sent your win update settings to notify only, then you decide which updates you want to install, and hide any new win 10 ones.

For years MS has been making it difficult for people to get windows unless they pay, and now they are forcing a free upgrade on everyone.
Well there is no such thing as free, it must have a terrible price associated with it.

I have a feeling that the privacy concerns with Win 10 are just the tip of the iceberg.

Inmortal719

16th October 2015, 21:48

Agreed I didn't want to upgrade but my brother said it was cool, however he did said that a lot of things weren't working, I don't know why I did it but after the upgrade I had thousand of troubles with the sound card drivers and stuff, the wifi also had issues and touchpad wasn't working, had to replace and look for troubleshoots to fix everything, fixed it all but the sound card drivers sometimes refuse to work properly because Windows forces other drivers to be installed and used even though I don't request it and have the do not install windows drivers option marked!!!!

Mozart

16th October 2015, 22:01

EWO

16th October 2015, 22:59

I've got this stupid Windows 10 icon that's been parked at the bottom of my computer for quite a while -- I noticed it immediately when it first arrived, so I've inquired into how to get rid of the damn thing, as I do NOT want to "upgrade" into Windows 10.

So, how do I delete that damn icon?

Of course there are search engines that can answer this question -- I'm posting it for the benefit of others here.

I wish that I had gone with Apple years ago...

I followed this article.
The issue i had was after I hid and uninstalled the required updates, they came back again, same name different size, so I had to do it couple of times.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2974479/microsoft-windows/how-to-get-rid-of-the-your-upgrade-to-windows-10-is-ready-lock-on-windows-update-in-win7-and-8-1.html

Gaia

16th October 2015, 23:04

I've got this stupid Windows 10 icon that's been parked at the bottom of my computer for quite a while -- I noticed it immediately when it first arrived, so I've inquired into how to get rid of the damn thing, as I do NOT want to "upgrade" into Windows 10.

So, how do I delete that damn icon?

Of course there are search engines that can answer this question -- I'm posting it for the benefit of others here.

I wish that I had gone with Apple years ago...

Apple sound great but I'm thinking to move to Linux and dont know nothing about it. Someone said to me that Linux was another world...

TargeT

16th October 2015, 23:04

Every OS has a back door & "Bill" is hardly a consideration at Microsoft anymore.

Do not be afraid of windows 10, it's new and buggy but it will get better & it's a very impressive operating system.

I wouldn't upgrade now though, not yet anyway.... too many bugs to fix. This PC is windows 10 and it took me a good 10 days to track down bugs that stopped software I wanted to use from working. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85243-Using-social-media-to-boost-conventional-businesses&p=1007785&viewfull=1#post1007785)

The aggressive upgrade campaign is just smart marketing, if you get users used to an OS at home its much more likely they will implement it at the "corporate" level as well, this is the way that free Linux distro's like Red Hat make money. It's basically a large corporate strategy that honestly benefits you (free upgrades don't get offered often).

If your on windows 7 I'd stay with that OS, at least for a while.. otherwise an upgrade isn't a terrible idea (in a few months when the bugs are figured mostly out) if you have somewhat newer hardware.

Gaia

16th October 2015, 23:06

Gaia

16th October 2015, 23:19

TargeT

16th October 2015, 23:54

I will not touch Windows 10. That being said, I'm sure all big corporations/military/government/other government can see everything I do.

Here is some information on what your "free" installation has given your consent to:

http://blog.emsisoft.com/2015/09/02/the-truth-about-windows-10-spying-on-almost-everything-you-do/

http://bgr.com/2015/08/14/windows-10-spying-prevention-privacy-tools/

I got a question: Is it all about Cortana?

Nope, just a gimmic.

and yes, the OS matters not, it's what goes over the WIRE that matters. you can be LINUX, MAC, UNIX, PC it doesn't matter... in the end all enformation is carried by the TCP/IP stack and as standardization goes: is easily readable.

If your paranoid learn about encryption, that's the only way to be MOSTLY sure you're information is only going to who you intend it to.

Information Technology has been my career for 16 years now, there are a LOT of misnomers and confusion out there (especially in these communities); but it's a complex topic so that is to be expected I suppose.

Canonman

17th October 2015, 00:18

I'm one of the lucky ones to make uneventful transition to window 10 from the 64 bit 7 pro. As you said, there's nothing to be afraid of, all other PC operating systems have bug reporting tools and myriad of other means to spy on you. There is an active key-logger hiding there in win 10, a google search can reveal the CMD commands to remove it. The ETL file collected can be accessed at C:\ Program Data\Microsoft\Diagnostics\ETLLogs\AutoLogger. Just delete the ETL file found there regularly, or run the commands you find on google. Disable any webcams or microphones, so Cortana won't access them, or disconnect them from your PC.(I don't have neither webcam nor microphone connected to mine). Apple isn't any better as far as security and privacy, at least the ipad is just as intrusive as anything else from either Microsoft or Google's Android. I tried to load some PDF files on my ipad recently, and it refused to display them until the files were recorded to the Apple cloud trough iTunes! I don't mean to defend Microsoft, I loath the company religiously, but personally I find windows 10 their best effort to date. My workstation boots up much faster, and it also seems to run 10%-15% faster than it did with windows 7.

gripreaper

17th October 2015, 01:32

I am still running XP Professional and Firefox backs it up still.

Me too. Every once in awhile a notice will appear on my screen that there is a Windows update available, and I just ignore them. They come saying: This is a "critical update" which is code for...we can't access all of your personal and vital information unless we load back door access, so we would really appreciate it if you would let us load the back door crap, or you could upgrade to Windows 10 where it is automatic.

So, about once every two years, a friend and I save all of my files to an external drive, including all of my Firefox folders, and then we clean sweep my hard drive, reload all of my software from the disks I have for "MY" software, and I start fresh.

I also use CCleaner after every session, sometimes more when I hear stuff running in the background, or when stuff shows up on my Facebook feed or suggestions on You Tube which should not have any apparent link. Where I go and what I look at is nobody's business, even though they want to make everything about me their business.

I wont buy any hardware that does not have the disks with it, be it a printer or whatever. I guess I am just an old school dinosaur with an old school desktop with old school XP, with old school disks, and old school ideas...

Oh well.

Operator

17th October 2015, 05:17

---
So, how do I delete that damn icon?
---

In short: Uninstall of KB3035583 and then hide it when it shows up again, I had to patch the registry also ...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx

I had to create a new key (Gwx), a new 32-bit DWORD named DisableGwx and set its value to 1.

In more details explained near the bottom of this page:
http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/

muxfolder

17th October 2015, 08:13

I think Windows 10 was actually pretty good. At least it did work on both my computers. But the thing is, it's not at all ready yet. The present users of Windows 10 are only a huge testing group for troubleshooting bugs and so on. And then there's of course the spying thing which they already have added to Windows 7 and 8 too.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/microsoft-accused-of-adding-spy-features-to-windows-7-8/

My advice is don't let Windows update automatically. I am using the Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them -option. By the way, there's a rollback option in Windows 10 if you want to uninstall it and get back to the old os. Only you'll have to do it within 30 days.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/rollback-from-windows-10

Apophenia

17th October 2015, 12:00

In the grand scheme of things, what difference is there in the additional NSA infringements on our privacy?

We use machines developed by the Western Allies for code-breaking and espionage during the Second World War, using network databases and internet systems pioneered by the US Navy in the 80s, and when it was released; coincided with the construction of military bases the world over involving information gathering and storage courtesy of our defence forces, the CIA, MI6, ASIO, and others all over the Anglosphere, with satellite surveillance and then some.

These same groups are publicly known to possess data mining utilities and hardware that can find every conceivable point of access or files made on any HDD or SSD at any point in time, even if it has been formatted a hundred times, and even had its binary data scrambled by magnets. This doesn't include anything they have since designed that could access data on a machine in ways the overwhelming majority of the public aren't familiar with.

Unless you know how to open up a HDD and destroy the physical, readable disk inside... then its highly probable everything you've ever typed or read on a PC machine has become known.

You could tell me you were using Windows 3.1 or were behind a dozen proxies on a VPN, and I still wouldn't believe your data is 100% secure from any given government agency.

17th October 2015, 13:22

I love my Mac...(s)

eris23

17th October 2015, 13:39

I'm curious about Linux. is in more secure? Is it difficult for beginners?

Operator

17th October 2015, 17:16

I'm curious about Linux. is in more secure? Is it difficult for beginners?

Hard to say ... how much time did it take you to get used to Windows (or OSX) ?
What do you use your computer for the most ?

E.g. if you use it to browse the internet and use Firefox there will be not much difference. I recently installed
OpenSuSe Linux and Firefox + transferred the Firefox profile on an old spare laptop. I hardly noticed any difference.
Font-types appear slightly different perhaps ...

But of course there is a lot more to it before you are at that point ... you need to download it, make bootable media
and install it. Additionally you need to know how to set preferences etc. It is not very difficult but it will take some
of your time and patience I guess. And you need to be a kind of go-getter who does not give up easily.

If this is the first time you try it you should either install it on a spare computer first or at least as a dual boot system.
There are also distro's (releases) that can run from CD/DVD (like Ubuntu) without installation so that you can first get
some touch and feel experience before installing it.

Perhaps some others here can expand a bit more on the Mint release. I think that one is easy to install and has the
simplest desktop user interface.

Tangri

17th October 2015, 22:15

Before you installing you should read the "Microsoft Privacy agreement"

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to: 1.comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; 2.protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone; 3.operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or 4.protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services – however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer’s private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement.

TargeT

17th October 2015, 23:13

I personally see it as very damaging to humanity), latest technology software. Do not get me wrong, Technology can be very good and helpful. I have seen it be so damaging myself to the humanity of our beings simply because of the way it has been brought about.

I understand your angst, but honestly you do not have issue with technology. You have issues with people.

PEOPLE make the decision to loose themselves in technology, or drugs, or even books. We are quick to assume the "new thing" is an issue, when really it just allows people to express what has always been there.

I've come to the conclusion that we have almost no issues outside of our selves, and never really have... I could expand on this ad nauseum but it's not really on topic.

I'm curious about Linux. is in more secure?

Yes and no. it's more "secure" like Apple is more secure... less people use it so there's less chance that someone will write malware (malicious software) for it.

Other than that, no it's not more secure (though if you get into the technical bits Linux does handle files differently and if you know what your doing can be locked down very tightly; but that knowing takes a lot of doing ;) haha)

Perhaps some others here can expand a bit more on the Mint release. I think that one is easy to install and has the
simplest desktop user interface.

Install Mint on a thumb drive and try it out (a 32gb thumbdrive should cost 32$ or less, you can get away with smaller if needed, but don't go below 8) it will run completely off the thumbdrive and your computer will not be altered, a great way to see if you like it.
XKI024wUTUw

I use LINUX distro's for my computer forensics work, it's a great light operating system that doesn't ask for much hardware wise, though you also loose a lot of features.

I'm curious about Linux. Is it difficult for beginners?
anymore Linux is VERY user friendly and will operate, for the most part, exactly like the windows environment you are used to. And with the ability to install the entire OS on a thumbdrive and boot from it it's a very easy operating system to get into.

Before you installing you should read the "Microsoft Privacy agreement".

what do those words MEAN to you? will they alter your every day life in anyway? is that the fact that you are OPENLY told that different from the fact that it's SECRETLY going on all the time?

Is this really worth the effort of a being that has a 1 in 400 trillion chance of existing?

Use the tools offered with good intent, everything else will follow.

guayabal

18th October 2015, 04:20

It's not fair to put linux and the the apple's OS at the same level when talking about computer privacy or control. There are linux distributions completely based on open source meaning that you can read/aprove/change every program (source code/compile) you intend to run... if you know how to do it and have the time to such kind of fun, basically you have all the power to really control your computer. Macs and Windows OSs are closed source, you could never know what they put in there on the core to monitor/abuse their users.

Harley

18th October 2015, 06:15

Microsoft is calling it an "Error". I'm calling it a Strategy.
i.e. If it doesn't work on your old computer, then buy a new one.
You see, when you buy a new computer the new Operating System comes with it preinstalled.
The more computers sold = the more Operating Systems sold = more profit.
If computer sales drop then Microsoft's profits drop.
(This should be placed in the "Wake-Up" category!) :)

Published yesterday, October 16, 2015 on EXTREMETECH (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/216360-windows-update-error-forces-some-users-to-upgrade-to-windows-10?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fextremetech+%28Extremetech%29&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view)

Windows Update Error Forces Some Users To Upgrade To Windows 10

http://i.imgur.com/LMwZb8g.jpg

Ever since Microsoft launched Windows 10, the company has come under fire for its aggressive update policies. In the weeks following launch, Windows 7 users were greeted with a giant “Reserve your upgrade today!” banner, every time they launched IE11 (if set to the default home page). At least one of our own writers had a system surprise-install the operating system, despite not being told to do so. And now, in an apparent repeat of what we thought was an odd corner case, Microsoft made an error in Windows Update that’s forcing people to upgrade to Windows 10, whether they wish to do so or not.

The problem, according to Microsoft, is that the Windows 10 Update was switched from “Optional” to “Mandatory” and automatically distributed to users who had “Download and install updates automatically” enabled. PCWorld reports that in at least some cases, users are now locked into an update cycle that they can’t cancel, as shown below. Images courtesy of GWX Control Panel developer Josh Mayfield.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Upgrade-to-Windows-10-Is-Ready-640x313.png
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Windows-Update-Reschedule-Start-640x426.jpg

If you see either of the two screens above, it means Microsoft has already downloaded the update and decided to apply it. It’s not yet clear if this can be reversed, or simply delayed. Ars Technica reports that the installer requires manual intervention to proceed, but in at least some cases that evidently defaults to a timer and a reboot counter, as shown above. In a statement, Microsoft said, “In the recent Windows update, this option was checked as default; this was a mistake and we are removing the check.”

This is just the latest ridiculous outcome from Microsoft’s upgrade push. Last month, we found out the company was stealth-downloading the Windows 10 installer, and before that, there were the aforementioned banner ads and obnoxious system tray advertisements.

This Is Why People Don’t Trust Microsoft

As a Windows 7 user who has never allowed Microsoft to perform automatic updates, this kind of problem is precisely why I don’t trust the company to do non-security patches by default. It’s not a question of malicious intent but simple human error. Someone hit the wrong button somewhere, and now people who trust Microsoft have a new headache to deal with. Microsoft’s attempts to create a universal update system for Windows 10, in which all updates are shoved out automatically, is a profound mistake. How long before another switch gets hit by accident and a patch or driver pushes out to systems that shouldn’t actually be running it?

It’s going to happen. The only question is how many people get burned when it does. If you’re on Windows 7 or 8.1, the problems have already started.

Operator

18th October 2015, 13:57

---
Ever since Microsoft launched Windows 10, the company has come under fire for its aggressive update policies. In the weeks following launch, Windows 7 users were greeted with a giant “Reserve your upgrade today!” banner, every time they launched IE11 (if set to the default home page). At least one of our own writers had a system surprise-install the operating system, despite not being told to do so. And now, in an apparent repeat of what we thought was an odd corner case, Microsoft made an error in Windows Update that’s forcing people to upgrade to Windows 10, whether they wish to do so or not.
---

There's no way I let Microsoft update automatically but I noticed some weeks ago that a giant update download was taking place without any notice.
A little later my shutdown button showed the exclamation mark informing me that an update was about to take place when shutting down the computer.

Fortunately that never happened but that annoying exclamation mark stayed there, even after I downloaded and installed updates that I wanted and
needed !?! I guess they forced a download because they have to work with time-slots 'serving' people who might decide to install it. You WILL get it
even when you never said yes ... ? :tape2:

KevBoh

18th October 2015, 13:58

Operator

18th October 2015, 14:28

I say never upgrade unless you have no choice.
Try to uninstall windows ten if you can, i am sure there are instructions somewhere on the net for that process

That's the Problem, on some PC's there are 2 Hard drives. So if you only have one HDD and you either upgrade and keep all files ( I would advise back up everything, and if upgrading, when you get the option it will ask, choose what to keep and Choose the 'Nothing' Option') When choosing The nothing Option, It will perform a clean Install, Once this is chosen, you only have one partition to choose from. If you perform this action from windows 7, 8 or 8.1 once it is finished installing, the hard drive 'thinks' it's never been used before as it has been through a format during the upgrade, meaning it is impossible to uninstall, as the PC will think Windows 10 is the only OS it has ever used.

If you are upgrading from a PC with 2 Hard drives, check in 'my computer' and check which hard drive your current OS is on, and put the Windows 10 on the other Hardrive. This will then giving you an option when booting up the PC of which OS you want to use. Giving you the choice. Which I think is handy.

I think Windows 10 is faster, my speakers are louder, it's sharp, crisp, effortless, so in that sense, to me, it is better than all previous versions of Windows.

Hope this helps :)

There are also free partition managers like Partition Master Free 10.8 (http://www.easeus.com/partition-manager/epm-free.html) which can virtually split
your disk into more partitions. I always do when installing new systems. There's a lot to be gained here ... even when you are not installing dual boot systems.

I always create a separate partition with label 'Data'. I never use the Downloads, Documents, Music, Pictures folders that Windows offer in the explore windows.
Even my Profiles for Waterfox, Thunderbird etc. I keep on that separate partition. When your system crashes or needs a new installation you can wipe the C:
partition clean and format it without losing your data.

Unfortunately it is not possible (or at least very tricky) to move the hidden AppData folder to a separate partition too. In that folder a lot of software settings
are stored. But on the other hand ... they don't change that much over time so you can usually take a snapshot and backup the most important settings.

If you're starting completely from scratch you can also start the drive manager at the beginning of the installation process delete all existing partitions and
create a new set of partitions in the way you like before you start the actual install process.

Lost N Found

18th October 2015, 17:17

Okay just one more thing, Listen to the folks that are in here that can help with the latest tech stuff. Good advice and great help I am sure. Here is a link to go to that supposedly will help you to uninstall the nasties.

https://www.hackread.com/microsoft-updates-spy-on-windows7-8-users/

Good luck folks.

TargeT

18th October 2015, 17:26

meaning it is impossible to uninstall, as the PC will think Windows 10 is the only OS it has ever used.

Just an FYI, it's never impossible to uninstall, you could very easily format your drive and start fresh, this is nothing more than a HUGE inconvenience at worse (since you CAN go back to original OS if you desire) I suggest a "clean install" every 6 months if you can manage it (back up what you want, format your drive and re-install your OS)...

I would HIGHLY recommend using windows update, and letting it go automatically. The majority of my job currently is applying these patches, and others every week; due to the HUGE amount of vulnerabilities that are constantly found these patches are mandatory (in my mind). There's no way a single person could keep up with the amount of exploits that come out, patching is the best option you have to ensure your computer doesn't fall victim to a script kiddie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie).
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/files/2015/07/scriptkiddie.jpg
I also suggest a minimum of Zone Alarm (http://www.zonealarm.com/software/free-firewall/) and Bit Defender (http://www.bitdefender.com/solutions/free.html)

Also (with patching in mind) this software has been a god send, I never let my score drop below 95%. Secunia PSI (http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/) (this software will look at everything installed on your computer and check if there are any updates available. Since around 80% of the attacks out there are against unpatched software; this software is tremendous help.

but, to each their own eh?

chiki

19th October 2015, 07:25

It simple everyone switch to linux and you'll never have a problem! Ubuntu a great one to start with. I switched over 10years ago and never looked back, Yes I still have a small partition on my hard-drive of windows, as one of the main programs for my job only works on windows, but you can do almost everything these day on linux, And you can get most of the programs that you need in linux for free Yes FREE,
without all the hassles or having to pay big $$$ dollars for them, and most of them are the leading edge programs.

Lost N Found

4th November 2015, 16:08

Just saying, Does not matter.

http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/2015/11/alert-microsoft-admits-windows-10.html

Wednesday, November 4, 2015
ALERT: MICROSOFT ADMITS WINDOWS 10 AUTOMATIC SPYING CANNOT BE STOPPED

Cidersomerset

4th November 2015, 17:14

I put these articles on the Snowden thread when I see them
on the headline page or other sites, just for ref ( I don't
understand the tech bits) but I post them anyway...LOL

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59919-Edward-Snowden-the-whistleblower-behind-the-NSA-surveillance-revelations&p=1016422&viewfull=1#post1016422

============================================

Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

By David Icke on 4th November 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/device_laptop_mini_start_cortana.jpg

TechThe Little Black Book of Billionaire Secrets
Nov 2, 2015 @ 12:00 PM 410,352 views

Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

‘Last week changes to the Windows 10 upgrade path mean it is going to
become increasingly difficult for any non-techy users to avoid being
pushed to Microsoft MSFT +1.85%’s new operating system. But given
Windows 10 is better than Windows 7 and Windows 8, why would that
be a problem? Because of policies like this…

Speaking to PC World, Microsoft Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore
explained that Windows 10 is constantly tracking how it operates and
how you are using it and sending that information back to Microsoft by
default. More importantly he also confirmed that, despite offering some
options to turn elements of tracking off, core data collection simply
cannot be stopped:’

Read more: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/11/02/microsoft-confirms-unstoppable-windows-10-tracking/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&ref=yfp

Gaia

4th November 2015, 22:32

Aha! Notice the MS Executive at 2:11....Cidersomerset :)

JI8AMRbqY6w

SilentFeathers

4th November 2015, 23:12

Windows 10 downloaded on one of my computers a month or so ago and I haven't had any issues with it. As for the spying? Well, I really don't see what interest they'd have tracking my boring as hell life! Track away assholes!
Sheesh, how could they possibly watch 7 billion plus people all at the same time in real time???? I reckon psychopath control freaks feel empowered and get off on brainwashing people in to believing they are being watched 100% of the time and can not ever hide anything anymore......and not even take a crap in peace anymore!

TargeT

5th November 2015, 02:12

ThePythonicCow

7th November 2015, 04:22

As for the spying? Well, I really don't see what interest they'd have tracking my boring as hell life! Track away assholes
The question is not usually whether one has some reason to want privacy at some moment. The question is whether freedom can long endure under a power capable of violating anyone's privacy, anytime.

A little hint: it can't.

TargeT

25th November 2015, 14:13

Here's a great tool that will fix most the problems of the built-in spying on windows 10,8 & 7.

Spybot Anti-Beacon:
Spybot Anti-Beacon is a standalone tool which was designed to block and stop the various tracking (telemetry) issues present in Windows 10. It has since been modified to block similar tracking functionality in Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 operating systems.

Anti-Beacon is small, simple to use, and is provided free of charge. It was created to address the privacy concerns of users of Windows 10 who do not wish to have information about their PC usage sent to Microsoft. Simply clicking “Immunize” on the main screen of Anti-Beacon will immediately disable any known tracking features included by Microsoft in the operating system.If any issues occur with your PC while using Anti-Beacon, undoing the changes made can be done by clicking the “Undo” button in the main window. This will re-enable all tracking services. If you experience any issues using Anti-Beacon or have any suggestions/recommendations, please be sure to let us know on the forum thread relating to this tool.
https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

Mutchie

27th November 2015, 07:46

Lol my Lap top is still running on XP its so old it even has a kickstart on it ...but it works fine ...never had any bother

OMG

3rd February 2016, 09:27

ZooLife

3rd February 2016, 13:15

How odd, going from having to pay to upgrade to a new version of Windows all these years to a 'free' (almost) compulsory Windows upgrade.

I wonder what spin Microsoft offers for this change in their business model. It doesn't add up IMO.

Clear Light

3rd February 2016, 13:38

How odd, going from having to pay to upgrade to a new version of Windows all these years to a 'free' compulsory Windows upgrade.

I wonder what spin Microsoft offers for this change in their business model. It doesn't add up IMO.

Ah, but it's only free up until around the end of July after which time I guess they'll start asking loadsamoney for it LOL :)

ZDNet : What happens to those free Windows 10 upgrades after July 29, 2016? (http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-happens-free-windows-10-upgrades-after-july-29-2016/)

Calz

3rd February 2016, 14:03

I heard (somewhere ... no idea how valid) the download would be automatic but there would yet be an option to deny the installation.

In other words it would be downloaded to your machine yet it won't be a forced upgrade to 10 ... at least initially.

With the people (read corporations/UN/TPP/Agenda21 and so on) I expect it is simply a matter of time before "the worst" is foisted upon us without consent.

... but that's me ...

Richard S.

3rd February 2016, 15:15

"If you haven't already downloaded Windows 10, your computer may do it for you automatically as soon as this week.

Microsoft has made Windows 10 a "recommended update," for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users, the company confirmed today."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/windows-10-upgrade-1.3430469

You can remove the "imposed" upgrade option by removing Windows Update KB3035583, it's the one creating the system tray icon with the option to update to Windows 10.

OMG

3rd February 2016, 19:52

[QUOTE=OMG;1043381]
You can remove the "imposed" upgrade option by removing Windows Update KB3035583, it's the one creating the system tray icon with the option to update to Windows 10.

Sweet!

:)

sheme

3rd February 2016, 20:08

As google chrome was going to stop supporting vista and windows 7- I figured that chrome and windows had had a big fall out. I just had to get a replacement PC as mine was terminal. New PC has windows 8.1 which was not getting good feedback so I installed 10 which really hates Google Chrome but I find it intuitive and like to use it... So have Bill Gates and the CIA fallen out?

Richard S.

3rd February 2016, 20:22

Chrome is dropping support for Windows XP & Windows Vista, support for Windows 7 is still there. It is the Windows of choice, especially Pro.

Browser of choice IS Firefox, just add the AdBlocker to it.

Chrome is great and fast, however. It's just that it falls under the corporate cloak that bothers me.

I use all 3, depending on what I do.

The most secure being Tor.

As google chrome was going to stop supporting vista and windows 7- I figured that chrome and windows had had a big fall out. I just had to get a replacement PC as mine was terminal. New PC has windows 8.1 which was not getting good feedback so I installed 10 which really hates Google Chrome but I find it intuitive and like to use it... So have Bill Gates and the CIA fallen out?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Keep in mind, you lose that hard drive with Windows10 installed, you lose the Windows 10, IF it is after July 2016. You'd have to revert to your original Windows you had before 10.

How odd, going from having to pay to upgrade to a new version of Windows all these years to a 'free' compulsory Windows upgrade.

I wonder what spin Microsoft offers for this change in their business model. It doesn't add up IMO.

Ah, but it's only free up until around the end of July after which time I guess they'll start asking loadsamoney for it LOL :)

ZDNet : What happens to those free Windows 10 upgrades after July 29, 2016? (http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-happens-free-windows-10-upgrades-after-july-29-2016/)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

It's free-ish, until July 2016...

How odd, going from having to pay to upgrade to a new version of Windows all these years to a 'free' (almost) compulsory Windows upgrade.

I wonder what spin Microsoft offers for this change in their business model. It doesn't add up IMO.

TigaHawk

3rd February 2016, 22:31

The windows 10 upgrade is "free" as they state - but you should know there is a string attached. I will explain what that is to you.

When you upgrade to windows 10 - your current license changes to an OEM key. This is a single use key - which is bound to the ID of your motherboard.

If your computer fails - or you upgrade - and specifically change the motherboard - your windows license is null and void - unless you replace the motherboard with one of the exact same make / model - which is extremely hard in the computer world with ever changing technologies.

I have a "full" windows 7 key. Which means i can upgrade my motherboard or change pc's completely and re-install using the same key. If you bought your Windows licesnse from the windows store - or a physical box you will have a full key. If you got your copy of windows with your computer when you bought it - or a little white pack that has OEM on it - you have an OEM key.

There is a significant price difference between an OEM key and a Full key as well - Full key's are generally double that of an OEM key.

So yes - this "Free" upgrade does have a price. One that I am sure you will start hearing of in the future when people go to upgrade or their pc's fail.

p.s stick with windows 7... windows 10 is fully up to date and much better at spying on you than it is with 7.

Caliban

3rd February 2016, 23:42

I'm still on Windows 7 and had to go through some real gymnastics to avoid getting 10 when they first tried to force it down our throats. And they don't let up -- just a minute ago I checked for Updates manually and of about eight "updates" only one pertained to Windows 7 -- the rest were all to do with UpGrading to 10.

What you do is highlight the update and click on "More Information" on the right side. That'll open another window where you'll see what that update is about. Then you go back and right click on it and choose "hide". The thing is -- they keep coming back at you with the same updates every few weeks. And I know they'll open me up to some automatic Windows change to 10. Boy are they sneaky, or what!

Richard S.

4th February 2016, 00:49

Since I removed KB3035583, haven't been bothered...

I'm still on Windows 7 and had to go through some real gymnastics to avoid getting 10 when they first tried to force it down our throats. And they don't let up -- just a minute ago I checked for Updates manually and of about eight "updates" only one pertained to Windows 7 -- the rest were all to do with UpGrading to 10.

What you do is highlight the update and click on "More Information" on the right side. That'll open another window where you'll see what that update is about. Then you go back and right click on it and choose "hide". The thing is -- they keep coming back at you with the same updates every few weeks. And I know they'll open me up to some automatic Windows change to 10. Boy are they sneaky, or what!

Caliban

4th February 2016, 01:00

Since I removed KB3035583, haven't been bothered...

What about when you go to download the updates? You don't see all the ones that prep. the system for Windows 10 ?

Richard S.

4th February 2016, 01:06

Caliban

4th February 2016, 01:57

Nope, KB3035583 is the base for it.

Remember some of the first ones I did that were pretty immersed into the updates, and up to the point where pop-ups would appear for Windows 10.

That's when I blew my top, and decided to get rid of it once and for all.
Looked it up, and it all starts with KB3035583. Once removed, Windows 10 is gone.:bigsmile:

Although, I wouldn't be surprised you may have to backtrack some of them to get back to the point where you just get the little flag on the system tray, to finally get rid of KB3035583, and hide it thereafter...

Since I removed KB3035583, haven't been bothered...

What about when you go to download the updates? You don't see all the ones that prep. the system for Windows 10

I don't think you're getting me. I already removed that KB3035583. I don't get that thing at the system tray that tells me W10 is downloading. What I mean is when you go to update your system and a list comes up. I'm seeing a bunch of updates (not 3035583) that have to do with "prepping" your current OS to switch to 10. I hide those and download security and Win. Defender updates. Voila.

mojo

4th February 2016, 03:49

I'm currently in the process of building a system. I purchased a windows 7cd operating system for when the project is complete. Now hearing about the devious way Microsoft is pushing windows 10 I'm beginning to wonder if I should go to a Linux system. In another thread I made a member suggested that there might be problems with Linux and the build. It seems nothing is perfect to choose for OS. But, now I'm leaning more to Linux because of Microsoft spying and forcing what to use.

CurEus

4th February 2016, 03:55

It is a little bit more involved but I found this guide usefull!

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-block-windows-10-upgrade-downloads-if-youre-not-1730024570

OMG

4th February 2016, 04:18

It is a little bit more involved but I found this guide usefull!

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-block-windows-10-upgrade-downloads-if-youre-not-1730024570

Even sweeter!
:)

Richard S.

4th February 2016, 13:12

Fair enough, although, I did just one or two that were heavily into it, pop-ups and all. I remember removing some instances of other updates.

So far, when I do remove the main update for it, everything else disappears, I see no other updates "prepping" for it.

Nope, KB3035583 is the base for it.

Remember some of the first ones I did that were pretty immersed into the updates, and up to the point where pop-ups would appear for Windows 10.

That's when I blew my top, and decided to get rid of it once and for all.
Looked it up, and it all starts with KB3035583. Once removed, Windows 10 is gone.:bigsmile:

Although, I wouldn't be surprised you may have to backtrack some of them to get back to the point where you just get the little flag on the system tray, to finally get rid of KB3035583, and hide it thereafter...

Since I removed KB3035583, haven't been bothered...

What about when you go to download the updates? You don't see all the ones that prep. the system for Windows 10

I don't think you're getting me. I already removed that KB3035583. I don't get that thing at the system tray that tells me W10 is downloading. What I mean is when you go to update your system and a list comes up. I'm seeing a bunch of updates (not 3035583) that have to do with "prepping" your current OS to switch to 10. I hide those and download security and Win. Defender updates. Voila.

conk

4th February 2016, 19:47

I heard Bill Gates was trying to sell a laptop with a built in syringe. You don't even have to go out to get your vaccines.

KiwiElf

6th February 2016, 02:01

Another solution here:

How to Stop Windows 7 or 8 from Downloading Windows 10 Automatically

http://www.howtogeek.com/228551/how-to-stop-windows-7-or-8-from-downloading-windows-10-automatically/

ThePythonicCow

6th February 2016, 02:42

Steve Gibson, of grc.com (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84739-Katherine-Albrecht-Windows-10-Is-Full-Blown-Electronic-Tyranny&p=992144&viewfull=1#post992144), recommends using the GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/gwx-control-panel-troubleshooting-guide.html) to control Microsoft's persistent efforts to upgrade your Windows system to Windows 10.

mojo

6th February 2016, 06:59

Paul what are your thoughts about spybot anti-beacon? A youtube video recommends it as it does remove things like telemetry loading from windows 10.

ThePythonicCow

6th February 2016, 13:54

Paul what are your thoughts about spybot anti-beacon? A youtube video recommends it as it does remove things like telemetry loading from windows 10.

I don't have a clue :).

Richard S.

6th February 2016, 14:42

3(C)+me

7th February 2016, 22:04

Another solution here:

How to Stop Windows 7 or 8 from Downloading Windows 10 Automatically

http://www.howtogeek.com/228551/how-to-stop-windows-7-or-8-from-downloading-windows-10-automatically/

Thank you soooo much. I have windows 7 and want to keep it and I was worried about "how not to get windows 10"

very simple for a electronically challenged person such as myself.

ThePythonicCow

8th February 2016, 01:29

Seems okay, but I am all-ways weary of installing additional apps to control what I want Windows to do. I prefer to research it, and get it done manually, helps in the comprehension aspect.

Not for the novice users, as some level of understanding and technique is required, that's when these third-party add ons are helpful...

Steve Gibson, of grc.com (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84739-Katherine-Albrecht-Windows-10-Is-Full-Blown-Electronic-Tyranny&p=992144&viewfull=1#post992144), recommends using the GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/gwx-control-panel-troubleshooting-guide.html) to control Microsoft's persistent efforts to upgrade your Windows system to Windows 10.

Another solution here:

How to Stop Windows 7 or 8 from Downloading Windows 10 Automatically

http://www.howtogeek.com/228551/how-to-stop-windows-7-or-8-from-downloading-windows-10-automatically/

Thank you soooo much. I have windows 7 and want to keep it and I was worried about "how not to get windows 10"

very simple for a electronically challenged person such as myself.

That HowToGeek.com (http://www.howtogeek.com/228551/how-to-stop-windows-7-or-8-from-downloading-windows-10-automatically) link is to an article from Sept 2015.

Unfortunately, Microsoft keeps changing what it does to get Windows 10 installed, as it works around or disables the various methods people are reporting.

That's one advantage of the GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/gwx-control-panel-troubleshooting-guide.html) that Gibson recommended ... it has been updated several times since then, to adapt to Microsoft's changes.

OMG

11th February 2016, 19:24

"Back in November Microsoft confirmed Windows 10’s worst kept secret: its extensive telemetry (or ‘spying’ as it has been labelled) cannot be stopped. What no-one realised until now, however, is just how staggering the extent of this tracking really is…"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-levels/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix#37d8a2017aa9

mojo

11th February 2016, 20:27

I think it can be stopped and mentioned it your other thread. Spybot ant-beacon. Check it out, tell us if it as good as it sounds...

Tommy

11th February 2016, 22:38

Just read an article on this subject earlier today. Seems this buzz is somewhat inaccurate or at least blown somewhat out of proportion.

While the data from the Voat post has since been deleted, Gordon Kelly claims that Microsoft has responded to his article and has decided to release updates “later this year” which will enable users to fully control all background telemetry and data tracking. Here’s what Kelly wrote:

Contacting me again a Microsoft spokesperson explained the company now wanted to speak about the issue. In short: Microsoft is taking action. It has decided to release updates “later this year” which will enable users to fully control all background telemetry and data tracking and, if desired, disable it completely. Microsoft also asked me to stress that disabling these background operations is something it would “strongly recommend against.

also:

Microsoft however has made no announcements about any changes to consumer editions of Windows 10, even upcoming ones, and Kelly’s most recent statements appear to be inaccurate or misguided, or both.

An Ed Bott post on ZDNet questioned the original data Gordon used, claiming that amongst other basic networking things, the data from the Voat “investigation” shows Windows is just trying to make a simple connection using its IPv6 capabilities, or checking the time, etc.

Like I have said before; If they want to spy on you they will spy on you. It does not matter what OS you are using.. Well perhaps if you are completely offline, but then again, there are other ways..

Source:
http://www.winbeta.org/news/reports-upcoming-changes-windows-10-data-collection-policies-inaccurate

DeDukshyn

12th February 2016, 00:14

Hervé

12th February 2016, 00:51

Also note that non-essential patches have been "silently" applied to windows 7 that do much of the same new tracking we see in windows 10. I ended up removing some of these updates from my system - I think four altogether. Interested users can google or search youtube for info.

This thread could be a good start: Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84971-Microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-Windows-7-and-8-systems)

chancy

20th March 2016, 06:22

Hello Everyone:
Here's an easy way to not get windows 10 on your computer.
Good luck.
chancy

Link:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/don-t-want-anything-windows-131539843.html

Article:
Don’t want anything to do with Windows 10? Here’s how to banish it for good
Justin Pot
Digital Trends
March 19, 2016

Windows 7 and 8 users know all about Windows 10. They’ve probably seen an icon advertising the new operating system in their system tray for more than half a year, and put up with more than a few pop-up ads asking them to install the free upgrade. If you have Windows Update enabled, the install files are likely already on your computer, and there have even been reports of Windows 10 installing without any authorization from users whatsoever. Isn’t there some way to outright stop Windows 10 from installing on your machine? And moreover, to make that icon and the pop-ups, just disappear? As it turns out, there is.

Windows 10 is a free upgrade for users of Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users, and we recommended it. At the same time, we know not everyone wants the latest system from Microsoft, for a variety of reasons. Maybe you depend on software that’s not supported, or maybe you just don’t want to switch operating systems right now. Here are two ways to make sure this doesn’t happen.
The easy way: Install GWX Control Panel, then click some buttons

The simplest way to make sure you won’t accidentally end up with Windows 10 is a program called GWX Control Panel. You can download it free from the Ultimate Outsider website. There’s an install file, and a portable instance of the application.

Related: Windows 10 coming to devices with 7, 8, 8.1, RT

Once downloaded, open the program and you’ll see an overview of various Windows 10-related settings on your computer, along with a number of features that help “protect” you from Microsoft’s free OS upgrade.

This can be intimidating at first glance, but don’t panic. The top boxes show you which upgrade-centric features are currently enabled on your computer, and the Status and settings summary box sums it all up in plain English. The buttons at the bottom of the application are where the real action is, though. These let you stop Windows 10 from installing. Let’s go through these buttons, explaining what they do.

The Disable ‘Get Windows 10’ App button will disable the tray icon that keeps “reminding” you about the Free Windows 10 upgrade, as well as the periodic pop-ups.

The Prevent Windows 10 Upgrades button will stop any and all Windows Updates related to Windows 10, and stop the “Upgrade to Windows 10” message from being prominently placed in Windows Update.

The Delete Windows 10 Download Folders button will delete the parts of Windows 10 already downloaded to your system, if they’re there.

The Delete Windows 10 Programs button will remove programs on your computer designed to get your system ready for Windows 10 upgrades.

The Change Windows Update Settings button opens up a new window, where you can stop Windows Update from automatically installing new updates. You probably don’t need to do this to stop Windows 10 from installing, and it could be a security risk if you forget to install patches, but some users might want to be sure.

The Click to Clear Windows Update Cache button will clear out lingering download information that may or may not be related to Windows 10.

The Enable Monitor Mode button will set GWX Control Panel to run in the background of your computer, with an icon on the system tray. From here, it can let you know if anything related to Windows 10 is changed on your system.

If you’re feeling overwhelmed, don’t panic. Just click the Disable ‘Get Windows 10’ App and the Prevent Windows 10 Upgrades buttons and you should be covered. For a little extra protection, click Enable Monitor Mode and you’ll be warned if anything changes. The rest of the buttons might be overkill, but worth using if you’re extremely worried about Windows 10 showing up.
The hard way: Toggle Windows Update yourself, then watch it closely

If you’d rather not rely on a third-party application to stop Windows 10 from installing, you could become hyper-vigilant instead. Head to the Control Panel, then System and Security, then Turn automatic updating on or off.

Michael Moewes

20th March 2016, 17:05

Very easy to use, actually.
Thanks a lot for sharing.
I've put it into action already.

mojo

20th March 2016, 17:55

I hope spybot ant-beacon will stop windows 10 as well. It does a great job of stopping telemetry going to microsft.

joeecho

20th March 2016, 18:33

I hope spybot ant-beacon will stop windows 10 as well. It does a great job of stopping telemetry going to microsft.

I had not heard of this program, mojo. Downloaded it and applied as soon as I saw your post.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

Sierra

20th March 2016, 18:51

Ran GWX, and Spybot. Very easy process. I'm so glad to get away from the constant Windows 10 upgrade messages!

Thank you Chancy, thank you mojo!

:clapping::shielddeflect::clapping:

Lancelot

21st March 2016, 08:36

Thanks for this.

Installed software and deleted all windows 10 nonsense popups in about 2 minutes- here's the link-

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

I've been harassed constantly by Microsoft windows popping up asking me to upgrade for free without giving me any choice. Just 2 days ago it started installing without my authorisation and I had to quickly unplug my pc. Its tried the same trick twice since ! Hopefully this has sorted the problem

Lancelot

21st March 2016, 08:41

Do you pay for spybot anti beacon?
Went to their website and after entering my email address I was directed to a payments page.
A link to a free download would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance

markoid

21st March 2016, 09:36

Here ya go Lancelot

https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

DouglasDanger

23rd March 2016, 03:52

Is this because you are all afraid of something new or did someone convince you that it is a new computer bogey man like they tried with XP and then rightfully so with Vista, which they fixed with 7 and then rebutchered with 8 and cobbled together 8.1....... Explain to me why Windows 10 is so much more evil than XP, Vista, 7, 8 , 8.1 ?

Windows 10 runs quite well, I would say better than 7 and 8, 8.1, I have done from scratch installations(new builds) as well as upgrade installations with Windows 10, this OS is far superior than its predecessors.

P.S. Windows 10 will not install on computer hardware it cannot run on, it will self abort the installation telling you why and leave your old operating system intact, I know this from experience.

mojo

23rd March 2016, 05:15

Yeah all those people on youtube telling us about the windows 10 bogey man...They all must be wrong especially about all the telemetry collected using that system. Is that ok with you too? But hey read the title of the thread. "Don't want anything to do with windows 10?" There are other things going on, it's more about the loss of our privacy...

norman

23rd March 2016, 07:46

That word "upgrade" makes me laugh, on a good day.

I suppose there have been political and legislative upgrades, too. The PATRIOT Act was an upgrade, right?

Wouldn't it be good if political and legislative changes were all handled by a notification window on our PC.

A. Instal automatically
B. Notify me when udates are available
C. Never ask again.

dim

23rd March 2016, 08:29

There's always a bypass,
for whatever this corporation have come up with all those years, there's always a work around,
an entire community of people working/inventing/scripting/hacking to tame this OS
and without getting too technical here, i can assure you that the one that cares enough
and has the courage to go through it, there are ways to enjoy a snappy/fast/tight/stable windows 10 OS
like one you never had before since the days win7 came out
because yes, behind all the bloat, win 10 are actually as good as 7 were.

Enough to say that after months of working on it, balancing between bloat and crippling the OS
i can now enjoy a tiny win10 installation of 2.5G than runs entirely from ram
that misses no features and without leaking anything to anyone.

If you just concerned solely about privacy and you're not computer savy
give yourself some peace of mind (relatively):
shutup10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10)
data-harvesting-hosts (https://github.com/dfkt/win10-un****/blob/master/data-harvesting-hosts.txt)

The brave ones feeling they can put their hands on and whip 10 can ask for details.

ThePythonicCow

29th March 2016, 12:51

Steve Gibson has released a new utility, called "Never 10". You can download it to your Windows 7 or 8 system, to prevent Microsoft from upgrading it to Windows 10. You can find more details and the download for "Never 10" at https://www.grc.com/never10.htm.

halcyon026

29th March 2016, 18:09

I'm a Senior Systems Engineer, I decided to look into Windows 10 concerns. Between that & talking with the Security guys at work I setup 1 PC with Windows 10, as did one Security guy at work and logged network traffic after a plain jane install for 10 and then after using some tools to see if we could reduce what Microsoft is doing. The tools do help.

My setup of Windows 10 feels more like an updated Windows 7 and I like it just fine.

As for tools (in no certain order)

1. Spybot Anti-beacon (for windows 7-10)
2. GWX Control Panel
3. Never 10 by GRC

I also wanted to comment on concerns I've seen about Smart Devices.

1. Don't leave cameras attached to PC's.
2. Don't leave mic's attached to my PC's.
3. Don't have Wifi or Ethernet (no internet access) to your Smart devices, leaving them dump devices.

If you are really concerned with security & anonymity and must get online, consider using Linux and the Tor Network.

Ascension

29th March 2016, 18:45

Word of warning...

If "Never 10" updates your older version of Windows 7 by installing Windows Update KB3065987, requiring a restart, you must then run "Never 10" again to disable the Windows 10 OS upgrades.

seah

30th March 2016, 14:16

It seems there is a fallout between the CIA and Apple with the recent concerns about hacking security of iphones and ipads.
I wasn't concerned but recently my ipad behaved in a suspicious manner while I was interacting on PA, which leads me to believe that most definitely there is some cause for concern. I've wanted to report this to a mod but didn't know whom to correspond with.

TrumanCash

29th May 2016, 18:26

3(C)+me

29th May 2016, 18:38

I installed the GWX control panel and I run it everytime on go online. It will notify me if their are any windows 10 installs and in the control panel I can delete it.
So it's running pretty good and I like the fact that it will monitor and let me know if any thing is amiss. I guess we will see if I run into any problems later on since Bill Gates is dead set an pushing his new system. I use thor more now then ever.

greybeard

29th May 2016, 19:02

My son bought me a new laptop with Windows 10 installed.
I gave it a fair crack of the whip.
Dont go there its a disaster---
It has built in apologies.
like Oops try again later --thats for simple things like changing pass word.
and a lot of other admits that something is wrong--not your fault.

I installed the latest UBUNTU--I have used that for years.
That is not quite up to speed but a preferred option.

Now and again the Internet connection fails but the icon remains as though connected--I have to double click on the provider to rectify.

If another UBUNTU user has experienced this and has a fix please PM me with the info.

Chris

KiwiElf

29th May 2016, 22:52

Further to TrumanCash' post above:

Windows 10 Hijacking Computers - DON'T Click on the "X" to close the Upgrade Pop-Up Window!
Thursday, May 26, 2016 9:19

(Extracted from Article at Before It's News - full Article at Link)
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2016/05/cia-secrets-of-the-it-industry-finally-revealed-why-bill-gates-went-from-computers-to-vaccines-overnight-3358843.html

Microsoft changed the coding on the “X” so that clicking it now instructs MS to “upgrade” your computer to Windows 10. Yes, really.

Editor’s Note: Within the last week, four news editors on WND’s small editorial staff have had their computers forcibly taken over by Microsoft and left unusable for up to 90 minutes while the software giant upgraded the computer’s operating system, without user permission, to Windows 10.

Microsoft has turned “nasty” in its campaign to coerce hundreds of millions of customers to upgrade to its Windows 10 operating system, a program critics condemn as privacy-invading, data-swiping and “brimming with freemium services and ads.”

Microsoft has been trying to lure computer users into its new operating system for months, bombarding them with unending pop-up screens. But many users are comfortable with the systems they have, have no interest in learning new operations and have simply clicked the “X” to get rid of the unwanted solicitation.

You can’t do that anymore.

Microsoft changed the coding on the “X” so that clicking it now instructs MS to “upgrade” your computer to Windows 10. Yes, really.

In fact, the two options on the page, “OK” and “Upgrade Now,” do the same thing as the “X.”

To avoid the forced “upgrade,” a user has to go into the fine print.

Inside a logo box in the ad is a scheduled date for a mandatory upgrade. The user must look in the tiny type just below that line and find where it says “here” and click on that to avoid the upgrade.

“Police State USA: How Orwell’s Nightmare is Becoming Our Reality,” marshals the terrifying evidence to show the world of Big Brother is much closer than we want to admit.

Tech world reaction has been strongly negative to what one analyst called a “deceptive” action.

But is Microsoft concerned? Not really.

Multiple requests from WND for answers to pertinent questions were met with links to company promotions for Windows 10.

Then there was Microsoft’s offer several times to go “on background” to answer questions, an offer WND declined. It apparently would have been information a reporter is supposed to hear about Windows 10, but not the general public.

What do YOU think? Sound off on Windows 10 ‘hijacking’ U.S. computers

PC World addressed the issue under the headline, “How Microsoft’s tricky new Windows 10 pop-up deceives you into upgrading.”

Senior editor Brad Chacos explained what ticked him off.

“This morning, the unthinkable happened: My wife, an avowed PC user who long ago swore to never touch an Apple device, started shopping around for a Mac Mini. And it’s all thanks to Windows 10. Or rather, the nasty new way that Microsoft’s tricking Windows 7 and 8 users into automatically updating to Windows 10.”

He said he already was no fan of Microsoft’s “strongarm” tactics, writing several months ago when Microsoft said buyers of Intel’s Skylake processors “have to upgrade to Windows 10 in the next 18 months, or forgo all but the most critical security patches – and those will be available to Windows 7 and 8.1 users only if said patches don’t ‘risk the reliability or compatibility’ on non-Skylake systems.”

Chacos called the news a “bombshell.”

“Making sure new hardware works with old operating systems no doubt consumes valuable time and resources, and hardware and software are intertwined now more than ever before, but aggressively forcing users (including businesses) to upgrade to Windows 10 before the end of the operating system’s initial stated support cycle ends is unprecedented in the Windows world,” he said.

“That nasty trick resulted in my wife’s beloved Windows 7 PC being sneakily upgraded to Windows 10 this morning. Sure, she has 30 days to roll it back to Windows 7, but she feels so betrayed – like Microsoft forcibly removed her control over her own PC – that she’s strongly considering embracing the Dark Side and buying a Mac, instead.”

BBC technology reporter Zoe Kleinman explained how Microsoft’s decision to force users to upgrade has “caused confusion.”

Microsoft, he says, essentially changed the “X” from “close window and begone” to “I agree to your company taking over my computer for an indefinite period and installing whatever you want and then I further agree to be subjected to a bombardment of ads as well as pilfering of my private files.”

At InfoWorld, Woody Leonhard wrote: “Microsoft has ratcheted up its Win10 upgrade efforts, going from an irritating advertising campaign to ‘reserve’ an upgrade (reserving free bits – what a marketing concept) to ‘accidentally’ forced upgrades to increasingly dicey signup notices (‘Upgrade Now/Upgrade Tonight’) to hidden folders with 3GB to 6GB of unwanted downloaded data to GWX processes that automatically restart themselves. Those are the more noticeable dirty tricks.”

He posted an explanation on how users can roll back if they’ve already been upgraded, but he warned, “the rollback can take many minutes or even hours.”

“Note that rolling back may not keep new files you’ve created, depending on where they’re stored.”

While he said he uses and likes Windows 10, “this forced updating is, in my opinion, the most customer-antagonistic act Microsoft has ever undertaken.”

Chacos left no doubt about his thoughts: “So after more than half a year of teaching people that the only way to say ‘no thanks’ to Windows 10 is to exit the GWX application – and refusing to allow users to disable the pop-up in any obvious manner, so they had to press that X over and over again during those months to the point that most people proably just click it without reading now – Microsoft just made it so that very behavior accepts the Windows 10 upgrade instead, rather than canceling it.

“That’s gross.”

He went back to his wife’s issue.

“Thanks to the deceitful new update, there’s a very high chance that my wife will be a new OS X convert by the end of the day. You may have ostensibly achieved another Windows 10 upgrade to pad your adoption stats, Microsoft, but you very well may have lost a lifelong PC user who swore she’d never switch to Apple. Which means that I may have to learn how to troubleshoot Macs.

“Dammit, Microsoft.”

Microsoft did send WND some comments it thought would be “helpful.”

“As we shared in October, Microsoft has been helping customers who received the Windows 10 upgrade as an ‘Optional’ (and now ‘Recommended’) update, to schedule their upgrade. Once a customer’s upgrade is scheduled, they will receive a notification that states the time their upgrade is scheduled for, with options to reschedule or cancel if they wish. If the customer wishes to continue with their upgrade at the designated time, they can click ‘OK’ or close (‘X’ out of the notification) with no further action needed.”

That’s from the ubiquitous “Microsoft spokesperson.”

What do YOU think? Sound off on Windows 10 ‘hijacking’ U.S. computers

Wayne Williams wrote at BetaNews, “Even if you like Windows 10, you should be angry at Microsoft.”

The “relentless pushing” from the software company is “scummy behavior, totally unbefitting of a company of Microsoft’s size and reputation.”

“The latest trick … should have people brandishing pitchforks and flaming torches and marching on Redmond, but it doesn’t. Why?Because Microsoft’s s—– g tricks are now what we expect from the company which doesn’t care in the slightest about its customers.

“Microsoft wants to get Windows 10 on a billion devices, and it’s going to hit that target even if Satya Nadella has to smash his way into your home and install it on your PC while you sleep. Sure, your computer might not work afterwards, but who cares, right? Certainly not Microsoft.”

He wrote: “Type ‘Windows 10 is’ into Google and the autocomplete suggests, among other things, the operating system is ‘bad’, ‘slow, ‘spyware’, and a ‘virus’. Bing pulls even fewer punches, saying Windows 10 is ‘rubbish’, ‘crap’, ‘awful’, ‘horrible’, and ‘slow’. Neither search engine suggests anything positive about Windows 10.

“Microsoft says once the free period expires on July 29, the Get Windows 10 (GWX) app will be removed from Windows 7 and 8.1 machines which have survived the bombardment, but will that be the end of Microsoft’s dirty campaign tricks? Somehow I doubt it.”

Want to give Microsoft a piece of your mind? Post a message on Microsoft’s Facebook page and the Windows Facebook page, call Microsoft’s headquarters at (425) 882-8080 or fax (425)706-7929.

Microsoft makes it nearly impossible to email the corporate office with user feedback, so hundreds of angry customers have flooded its Facebook page in the last 24 hours with complaints about the forced Windows 10 “upgrade,” including the following:

Hey Microsoft nerds. Back in high school, when a girl said no to your advances, she meant no. Same goes here when users tell you no they do not want Windows 10. I know high school was tough on you, but learn from it. No means no. – Abraham Yang

I am writing my congressional officials. This practice has got to stop. For Microsoft to take over people’s computers is an outrage! – Judy DeTuccio

Major class-action lawsuit incoming regarding forced Window 10 upgrades. Will be in the billions. – Jake Rappoport

SLAMMED BY MICROSOFT! I have patiently declined the offer to “upgrade” to Windows 10 each day for several months. This morning Microsoft slammed all of the machines in my office without my permission. The process took more than 2 hours out of our work day to reverse, which equates to several thousand dollars of lost productivity. This is an unacceptable business practice by a company I had come to trust and respect. When telephone companies employed similar practices, they were sued and criminally prosecuted! Restitution should be made to me and other impacted businesses who have suffered from this insane action on the part of Microsoft! Shame on you, Microsoft!!!! – Rick Biers

NO, NO, NO Microsoft!!! We don’t want automatic upgrades to Windows 10, and you have NO RIGHT to alter software we have paid for, on machines we own!!!! – Al Freeman

This whole Windows 10 update thing is really shady. Shame on you, Microsoft. My next OS will be Linux. – Derek Davis

Johnny

30th May 2016, 01:08

KiwiElf

30th May 2016, 01:47

A prediction: in a year +, users of windows have to pay an amount annually to continue to use it, and by that time they also embedded

everything called telemetry (spying) in the operating system so it can not be removed !

Do you know this one: http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/16588-event-viewer-clear-all-event-logs-windows.html

Johnny :)

Not helped by the "programmed mindset" that you must have the latest and greatest. How long before the older OS's we prefer to use become obsolete and unusable by more of Microsoft's hacking (and that's what it is - ILLEGAL HACKING!)

And Microsh*t aren't alone in "devious software practices". For some time now, faithful users of Adobe Photoshop & others of their product line can no longer get the standalone programs in a box, you now have to pay a monthly "subscription" to use it/them and only available online. (Oh, of course, you get ALL the latest "upgrades").

Personally, there hasn't been a significant upgrade of Photoshop since version 7 and I'd advise users to stay with that. ;) Screw them - download a bootleg copy! :)

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right?" :thumbsdown:

Michelle Marie

30th May 2016, 02:21

Another lifelong PC user gone. Goodbye Microsoft. Hello! Mac.

Unethical business practices are the straw that broke the camels back. My son has been trying to get me to go to Mac for years. Now, for sure, I will do it. I was just about to buy another PC. NOT NOW!

MM

KiwiElf

30th May 2016, 02:41

@ Michelle Marie - When you buy a Mac with an Intel Chip - ie any Mac made in the last 5+ years, you can partition your hard drive and activate Bootcamp, a utility which comes with every Intel Mac. This allows you to install your preferred version of Windows (there are still a few new copies of Windows 7 available out there) on the partition, effectively giving you both Mac & PC platforms in one box for considerably less than buying 2 x separate computers. (I'd recommend you have 2 Hard Drives installed - one for back-up)

I've used both platforms - Mac & PC - for a long time and still do. But I'll continue using the PC with Windows XP (or Windows 7/Bootcamp on the MacBook, with Windows Updates permanently turned OFF (and above utilities installed with a good AntiVirus Program).

Yep - the Mac is still my favourite!

Johnny

30th May 2016, 02:55

greybeard

30th May 2016, 10:11

I do not know Mac, but I know Linux: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Dual-boot-Linux-and-Windows-on-a-PC-with-W/ (remember to push the 'next' button ! or 'view all steps'.)

I do not like Ubuntu with Unity (Unity is what you see at the screen, the desktop) (Sorry Chris :) ) I like the Cinnamon desktop. Try Linux Mint 17.3, but there will be an Linux mint 18 out in june.

Johnny :)

Thanks for this info.
Im downloading the Cinnamon 17.3 to try.
You can run it from a DVD and keep Windows till you are shure you want to keep it then operate either in partitions or opt to go completely for Cinnamon (Ubuntu)

Chris

Johnny

30th May 2016, 11:19

You can run it from a DVD and keep Windows till you are shure you want to keep it then operate either in partitions or opt to go completely for Cinnamon (Ubuntu)

Chris

It will be much faster with an USB- stick.

For the newbees: you can use 'rufus' to make an iso file when you have downloaded the Linux 'standard-model' you want . Google: Rufus - Create bootable USB drives the easy way. And also use the option you have just before

the installation of Linux, to check the input.

Just to clarify, Linux mint 17.03 is based on Ubuntu (if I remember correct Ubuntu 12.04), but one have various options for the desktop part, Linux Mint 18 is based on Ubuntu 16.04. (year 16 month 4)

And for the newbees again: Linux is a mess, because there are so many options (try to Google ' Linux timeline' :) It is like buying a new car,
what brand of car you want ?,
what model do you want ?,
what kind of gearbox do you want ?,
diesel or gasoline ?,
do you want the side mirrors to fold in when you park ?
what color do you want ? etc. etc. (but often many parts of the cars are the same brand)

BUT Linux is FREE !!!

Johnny :)

Hervé

30th May 2016, 11:38

[...]
It will be much faster with an USB- stick.
[...]

For those interested in concocting their own, multi-boot, versatile, USB repair/start-up stick: http://www.easy2boot.com/

uzn

30th May 2016, 14:13

KiwiElf

30th May 2016, 15:34

I wonder what spin Microsoft offers for this change in their business model. It doesn't add up IMO.

Let me give you an insight into how this came to be. Apple made a sinister move against Microsoft, they made their Operating System (OSX) a while ago completely for free for everyone, well knowing that this would hit Microsoft very hard since Microsoft made most of their money with their OS (Windows). Now you had two really good operating systems, one for free the and the other costs money. Which one do you choose? Microsoft had to react to this. That´s why Microsoft made the Update to Windows 10 for free for all. It was a reaction not an action.

I don't really want to get into an Apple versus Windows argument here but that's really not very accurate nor an "insight": :) Mac's OS has been free for as long as I can remember (as since 1984?, as were their system upgrades) and considering how few Macs there were/are compared to Windows operated PC's (ie Mac at less than 4 % of the market at the time and not much bigger now at barely 7% compared to Windows @ over 86% - "Other" OS's are about 7%. Windows 7 still has almost 50% of the OS market at this time), it was and is not really much of a threat. Nor was (or ever has) there been a Mac OS that has been forced on Mac users without their knowledge (or sneakily installed behind their backs).

The computers themselves were a different story. Macs were originally considered "prohibitively expensive" (almost twice the price for an original Mac SE in 1986), compared to a "PC" running windows and are still a premium price today. But in all fairness, I'd say you do get what you pay for (and most Macs have been relatively trouble free since their inception).

One of the most understated advantages of a Mac is their quality and longevity. Many PC's are made from inferior components (hence their "cheap price") and in the end, they could cost you more. I've had one Mac outlast 3 PC's and still going strong (it's 15 years old btw!). We're comparing Porsches vs Fords here. Windows vs the Mac OS is pretty comparable there too. Anyone who knows Microsh*t's history knows that DOS was an "incomplete" OS. They just kept piling the problems on top of the problems (and they've NEVER fixed it. Windows is literally a pile of dung). The Mac just plugs in and goes, no problems.

Likewise the choice of software applications for a Mac is still very small compared to what's available for Windows, (but games aside, how many word processors do you need? ;)). Everything the "typical user" of a computer needs is more than amply available for a Mac, and then some. Keep in mind that anything brilliant on your computer was largely pioneered on a Mac first. Windows at best, was a crappy copy. Sometimes, it worked.

So what were you saying about "sinister moves"???? :facepalm:

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

uzn

30th May 2016, 16:45

I meant giving out the OSX even if you did not buy a Mac/Macbook.
Most modern people have Macbooks nowadays. Most young people have duadboot Macbooks, with OSX and Windows on them. PC sales are dropping since several years now. Maybe your numbers are a bit old. I also work at a University and have hundreds of young Students infront of me, so I see stuff quite clear and I see what gear they prefer.

I am a professional, I use Mac´s and PC´s. Just to give you an example, the guys from Pixar came to our University some months back to present their latest work and promote Renderman. And guess what they all had Macbooks with them to work on and to use for their presentation.

Kiwielf you said:
Likewise the choice of software applications for a Mac is still very small compared to what's available for Windows.

What? All the professional Software (Design, Production, 2D, 3D) is available on OSX, even some really cool stuff you don´t get on the PC. Even AutoCAD is now available on OSX, the program our World is build with (Bridges, Skyscrapers, etc.)Of course there are some small programs you don´t have on the Mac, but not much. Check the Macstore and have a look.

KiwiElf

30th May 2016, 16:59

I meant giving out the OSX even if you did not buy a Mac/Macbook.
Most modern people have Macbooks nowadays. Most young people have duadboot Macbooks, with OSX and Windows on them. PC sales are dropping since several years now. Maybe your numbers are a bit old. I also work at a University and have hundreds of young Students infront of me, so I see stuff quite clear and I see what gear they prefer.

Ummm did you check out the link in the above post UZN? Clearly most people do NOT have MacBooks. Mac have always been heavily supportive of the education sector but that depends what subjects you teach. I fail to see why anyone would want the Mac OS if they didn't have a Mac to run it on? The link I provided is fairly up-to-date (April 2016) :) Nor are classrooms of students representative of all demographics.

The University I worked for was very PC biased, I was one of only a handful of lecturers who used a Mac as my area was and is graphic design/advertising. Their networked PC's were hopeless for the task. It's true that the graphics side of computer use is largely Mac driven (approx 80%) but less so today.

Biggest is not always best, at least, as far as Windows is concerned ;)

uzn

30th May 2016, 17:14

I think you are more right than me. I had a look at the statistic, horrifying that so many still use Windows XP and 7. Thats like sailing with a ship full of holes.

What I wrote above why Mircosoft made the Update free was Microsoft internal explanation for it. Can be that the real reason was something completely different.

But one could install OSX on a PC now. But I have not heard of anyone who actually did this.

KiwiElf

30th May 2016, 18:05

Well, you're talking to a fellow uni lecturer and dedicated Mac User (since 1984!) who teaches graphics - the use of Macs by our students in our industries is definitely favourable toward Macs (always has been) :).

For "the rest of the world," (ie software that is not graphic, movie or music-based), that isn't the case. Yeah, spreadsheets work just as well on a Mac as they do on Windows. But that's a bit of the sheep mentality for you. Most people don't like change.

(The arguments I had with the clods and bean counters in the computer department who made the decisions on what computers to buy! "Macs were too expensive ra ra ra." was the biggest reason...) Yes,... and PC's weren't up to running the graphic software that you and I are used to, (especially on a network!), nor did the "arty" graphic-oriented businesses out there in the fields we represent use Windows - the bean counters just couldn't understand that simple fact ;) . Imagine every time you clicked on an InDesign or PhotoShop Page your whole PC window went blank for a minute while the PC/network tried to catch up!). Forget 3-D! And in fairness, Macs on a network weren't too crash hot either!
Despite my demonstrating that Macs could read most Windows-based documents that we all used, they just would not be convinced.

I gave up! I may as well been talking to a brick wall.

The truth was, they (the computer buyers & IT for the University) were bought up on PC's/Windows, they didn't have a clue what to do with Macs, and "cheapest is best". They were scared of what they didn't understand and they weren't even prepared to look. Change was HARD. Glad to see it IS changing.

The main reason people prefer Macs was/is their ease of use, quality, reliability, they're faster and as you well know - they do the "arty" side brilliantly. They rarely get viruses (they can get viruses, contrary to popular myth, but not very serious), and nor did or do they need the number of updates that Windows used to need. In other words, the Mac was quite a painless and pleasurable way to go for most users. (It's also true that you may be unlucky enough to buy a dud - even Apple make a few "Monday Macs").

(I used to say, Mac = Porsche, Windows = Truck... with racing stripes and mag wheels pretending to be a "sports car") - and you generally DID get what you paid for. Mac were the innovators and Windows was a poor, clunky copy.

But also as a fellow gamer, you'll appreciate there are far more choices out there for PC's. That's why I use both. (The only reason I bought a PC myself was to use Microsoft Flight Simulator and other games that weren't so available on the Mac pre Intel Macs). When this PC dies, it'll be replaced with another Mac dual/boot :)

The biggie?... If you like to tinker on a computers innards and workings, then a Mac was/is pretty much a closed box. The tinkerers prefer PC's.

Yes, Mac are definitely catching up, and deservedly so, but Apple's real success was with the iPod, iTunes and iPhones. Those users started taking a look at the Mac OS as well, and hey, they could get two (OS's in one box) for a bit more than the price of one (dual-boot) and all of the other "good stuff" they were used to. You've got a whole new generation of computer users and the younger ones are seeing things a whole lot differently (thank god!) :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Ummmm not sure about Mac OS on a PC - the internal hardware and firmware is a bit different. I have yet to see Mac OS running on a PC. Oddly enough, Macs were able to simulate Windows with software even before they became Intel based.
Mac don't advertise the Bootcamp aspect even now... they want you to buy a Mac to use Mac software :)

uzn

30th May 2016, 18:48

Wow Kiwielf, couldn´t have said it better ;)
And sure if you want to play games on a computer than the Mac feels like a dried out desert. But nowadays I mostly play on Consoles, not on PC. It´s so much easier and always works ;)

Update:
I have high hopes for the Surfacebook, this could be the first real alternative for a Macbook.

KiwiElf

30th May 2016, 19:04

I have high hopes for the Surfacebook, this could be the first real alternative for a Macbook.

Please tell us more! :)

uzn

30th May 2016, 21:09

Just got it, feels amazing. All touch by fingers with a really good pressure-sensitive pen. 3000x2000 pixels native, GeeForce. You can take off the screen and its basically an iPad. You can attach the Screen 180 degrees around and its a Sandwich-iPad on steroids. Something like this I would have expected from apple. And since the Hardware is really optimized for Win10 it´s all running very smoothly. One thing that bugs me a bit is that the Pen only has 2 main Buttons, so the middle-mouse-button is missing. For the 2D Apps like Photoshop that ok, but the 3D Programs use the Middle-mouse-button quite heavily.
I hope I don´t go offtopic to much here.

ThePythonicCow

31st May 2016, 01:22

Bill Gates is now forcing Windows 10 on Window 7 users!
I recommend you download and run Steve Gibson's Never 10 (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm).

Until a couple weeks ago, clicking the [x] in the upper right corner of those Windows 10 upgrade screens was sufficient to stop the install, at least for a while.

But Microsoft changed that behavior, without changing the wording of the screen ... now apparently there is some nearly hidden link within the text that lets you click to some other screen(s) where you can delay the install for a while longer. But just closing the unwelcome upgrade notification Window is taken as a final consent and invitation to commence the upgrade soon thereafter. ... disgusting.

If you use Steve Gibson's "Never 10," then Windows 10 should be banished for the forseeable future from your PC, until you choose to rerun "Never 10" and open the door for Windows 10.

The Borg's obnoxious pushing of Windows 10 upgrades has been a major source of disgust in the geek community since late 2015.

The other most popular tool to keep stop Windows 10 upgrades is the GWX Control Panel. This, and Never 10, are compared in this article: Steve Gibson's Never10 vs. Josh Mayfield's GWX Control Panel (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3049165/microsoft-windows/steve-gibsons-never10-vs-josh-mayfields-gwx-control-panel.html).

As I noticed early this year 2016, in Post #21 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88648-Windows-10-Turn-off-automatic-update-or-else...&p=1044136&viewfull=1#post1044136), above, Steve Gibson had been recommending GWX himself, when GWX was the best game in town, before Steve came out with his own Never10.

greybeard

31st May 2016, 11:24

AND another thing LOL

I did a Windows 10 recovery on a USB stick
When I inserted this into the laptop with UBUNTU to re format it, to re use---its presence was not even recognized
I had to insert it into an old Windows PC we have--recognized there and reformatted, but!!! still not recognized in UBUNTU--I changed the title of the stick which was still showing Recovery after formating---then finally it is usable in UBUNTU .

I hope this is helpful.

Really I dont get why Windows 10 was released with so many errors.

Chris

bluestflame

31st May 2016, 11:56

a multi billion dollar company bends over backwards to get people installing a free full version of thier latest operating system , those that for whatever reason, after a certain undefined time period have not chosen to install/upgrade, will have it stealthily installed without thier permission

i would have thought that this would be ringing alarm bells for a lot more people than it seems to have other than the normal buzz of irate online venting at the bugs of each new OS

as i read elsewhere in the early saga EVEN to people with illegal copies of previous versions of windows

KiwiElf

31st May 2016, 12:22

I'm amazed Microsoft didn't include a free syringe with Windows 10 so we could vaccinate ourselves as well! :p. (Steve Jobs must be having the last laugh!)
I'll stick to Macs ;)

Mark (Star Mariner)

31st May 2016, 13:11

The other most popular tool to keep stop Windows 10 upgrades is the GWX Control Panel. This, and Never 10, are compared in this article: Steve Gibson's Never10 vs. Josh Mayfield's GWX Control Panel (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3049165/microsoft-windows/steve-gibsons-never10-vs-josh-mayfields-gwx-control-panel.html).

As I noticed early this year 2016, in Post #21 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88648-Windows-10-Turn-off-automatic-update-or-else...&p=1044136&viewfull=1#post1044136), above, Steve Gibson had been recommending GWX himself, when GWX was the best game in town, before Steve came out with his own Never10.

Aweome Paul, appreciate the link, many thanks. Exactly what I've been looking for.

My only fear is Microsoft will try to stealth some bypass of Never10 and GWX in a future update.

Carmody

31st May 2016, 13:12

windows 10 is hardcore spyware, and gates is a hardcore globalist.

This is very destructive for a multi-billion dollar corporation; the real reasoning behind it appears to be slightly out of our sight.

Confusion abounds, anger abounds.......for reasons we cannot truly see or fathom.

We can decide and create a reason based on our given individual level of perception (which we are all individually doing), but note that it does not fit the reality of what a major global corporation should be doing, at all.

No matter what our reasoning, it makes no sense. At all.

Perceived Black, is truly white, in this enforced upgrade into known universal (single platform) spyware.

A blatant attempt to net as many people as possible into being on the same observational spyware platform.

Whence does this corporate and legal/litigation insanity arise from..... and where is it going?

These things tend to tie together. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90967-Push-To-Implement-Basic-Income-For-All&p=1071797&viewfull=1#post1071797)

bluestflame

31st May 2016, 13:56

answer could be obvious " PROGRAMMING" literally

on another not something about googles AI bet bill(gates to hell) has his own pet project, is this where transhumanism gets its big kickstart , we know he also has a big interest in nanotechnology , perhaps new OS has imbedded software to enable some form of activations

just imagining things i'm sure they can imagine far worse

one thing i DO get it's something about hijacking all win10 computers to form some sort of background super computer or the like( stealthily of course) whatever it is , it's not in our best interests , it's all about the stealth ( am sure it's covered in the user agreement somehow vaguely referenced to in casr it fails and they want to cover thier arses legally in the aftermath)

OR after reading the link carmody posted IT'S a SELECTION PROCESS

TrumanCash

31st May 2016, 15:59

Bill Gates is now forcing Windows 10 on Window 7 users!

I bought my computer with Windows 8 on it, but later paid to have Windows 7 installed on it.

I always got the little window on the bottom right of the screen that said Windows 10 recommended but I always clicked on the "x" to get rid of that little window.

Today, however, I got a larger window in the middle of the screen that said Windows 10 will be installed in 7+ minutes unless I click on the do-it-later button. That window had never appeared before. I would not agree to the do-it-later option because I did not want it at all--ever. So I just clicked on the "x" to get rid of the window.

Nothing else happened at that time.

However, a few minutes later I went out of the room and then came back in a few minutes only to find Windows 10 installing! Arghhhh!

So I pulled out the internet cable and shut down the computer to stop the install.

Fortunately, it worked and did not install.

In other words, if you are not always watching your computer when it is on and connected to the internet, Windows 10 may be installed without your knowledge or consent! :facepalm:

Here's an update from my post two days ago:

No windows to force an update appeared for two days but this morning a new and different window (even larger) appeared when I turned the computer on. The window gives two choices: "Your upgrade is ready to install" or "Schedule it for later".

Here was also something new and different: There was no "x" or other button to close the window!

Fortunately, I now always unplug the ethernet cable when I leave the room or shut down the computer so it was not connected to the internet. So turned the computer off and restarted it and the window did not appear again.

Thanks Paul for your advice. I downloaded the "GWX Control Panel" and found it very quick and easy to get rid of that Windows 10 upgrade beast off my computer.

Right now Macs are looking really good to me. It feels good to just to say "No!" to that sociopathic, depopulation, needle-poking, poison pusher Bill Gates!

TLC

Johnny

31st May 2016, 16:42

The window gives two choices: "Your upgrade is ready to install" or "Schedule it for later".

TLC

LOL, and when I pushed the 'Schedule for later' it started the installation !

Johnny :)

ThePythonicCow

31st May 2016, 19:56

windows 10 is hardcore spyware, and gates is a hardcore globalist.
Unfortunately even my beloved Linux is (potentially) going the way of the globalist dogs.

All the major Linux Distributions except a few such as Arch Linux and Devuan (a Debian fork) have adopted a Windows like piece of humongous, always changing, inscrutable, runs as SystemAdmin, system management software called Systemd. I found Windows Registry easier to deal with. Red Hat, SuSE, Ubuntu, and Debian have all folded and joined the Systemd bandwagon.

It is beyond impossible to audit even an existing version of Systemd for security holes and leaks, much less keep up with the constant stream of updates. For almost 40 years, I have been able to understand and trace what happens with all the key system level services that I might take an interest in, running on any Linux or Unix platform. No longer can I come close to doing this on any Systemd managed system.

The next chance I get, I will be moving from Debian (which I only moved to a year ago, to get away from even greater chaos in the Kubuntu distribution I had been using) to Arch Linux.

Johnny

31st May 2016, 20:20

The next chance I get, I will be moving from Debian (which I only moved to a year ago, to get away from even greater chaos in the Kubuntu distribution I had been using) to Arch Linux.

Too late, according to this: http://www.howtogeek.com/216454/how-to-manage-systemd-services-on-a-linux-system/

Johnny :)

ThePythonicCow

31st May 2016, 20:40

Too late, according to this: http://www.howtogeek.com/216454/how-to-manage-systemd-services-on-a-linux-system/

Johnny :)
The key is (or was?) that Arch supports (ed?) removing Systemd: http://systemd-free.org/

I guess I should consider alternatives: Free/Open Source Operating systems without systemd in the default installation (http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Operating_systems_without_systemd_in_the_default_installation).

KiwiElf

1st June 2016, 03:27

If you're planning on staying with Windows 7 or 8, this older article may be of interest, pre the release of Windows 10 - it's still relevant and primarily refers to Windows 7 & 8. Related articles at link)

8 Reasons Why Even Microsoft Agrees the Windows Desktop is a Nightmare

http://www.howtogeek.com/174939/8-reasons-why-even-microsoft-agrees-the-windows-desktop-is-a-nightmare/

Let’s be honest: The Windows desktop is a mess. Sure, it’s extremely powerful and has a huge software library, but it’s not a good experience for average people. It’s not even a good experience for geeks, although we tolerate it.

Even Microsoft agrees about this. Microsoft’s Surface tablets with Windows RT don’t support any third-party desktop apps. They consider this a feature — users can’t install malware and other desktop junk, so the system will always be speedy and secure.

Malware is Still Common

Malware may not affect geeks, but it certainly continues to affect average people. Securing Windows, keeping it secure, and avoiding unsafe programs is a complex process. There are over 50 different file extensions that can contain harmful code to keep track of.

It’s easy to have theoretical discussions about how malware could infect Mac computers, Android devices, and other systems. But Mac malware is extremely rare, and has generally been caused by a problem with the terrible Java plug-in. Macs are configured to only run executables from identified developers by default, whereas Windows will run everything. Android malware is talked about a lot, but Android malware is rare in the real world and is generally confined to users who disable security protections and install pirated apps. Google has also taken action, rolling out built-in antivirus-like app checking to all Android devices, even old ones running Android 2.3, via Play Services.

Whatever the reason, Windows malware is still common, while malware for other systems isn’t. We all know it — anyone who does tech support for average users has dealt with infected Windows computers. Even users who can avoid malware are stuck dealing with complex and nagging antivirus programs, especially since it’s now so difficult to trust Microsoft’s antivirus products.

Manufacturer-Installed Bloatware is Terrible

Sit down with a new Mac, Chromebook, iPad, Android tablet, Linux laptop, or even a Surface running Windows RT and you can enjoy using your new device. The system is a clean slate for you to start exploring and installing your new software.

Sit down with a new Windows PC and the system is a mess. Rather than be delighted, you’re stuck reinstalling Windows and then installing the necessary drivers, or you’re forced to start uninstalling useless bloatware programs one-by-one. After uninstalling the useless programs, you may end up with a system tray full of icons for ten different hardware utilities anyway. The first experience of using a new Windows PC is frustration, not delight.

Yes, bloatware is still a problem on Windows 8 PCs. Manufacturers can customize the Refresh image, preventing bloatware from easily being removed.

Finding a Desktop Program is Dangerous

Want to install a Windows desktop program? Well, you’ll have to head to your web browser and start searching. It’s up to you, the user, to know which programs are safe and which are dangerous. Even if you find a website for a reputable program, the advertisements on that page will often try to trick you into downloading fake installers full of adware.

While it’s great to have the ability to leave the app store and get software that the platform’s owner hasn’t approved — as on Android — this is no excuse for not providing a good, secure software installation experience for typical users installing typical programs.

Even Reputable Desktop Programs Try to Install Junk

Even if you do find an entirely reputable program, you’ll have to keep your eyes open while installing it. It will likely try to install adware, add browse toolbars, change your default search engine, or change your web browser’s home page.

Even Microsoft’s own programs do this — when you install Skype for Windows desktop, it will attempt to modify your browser settings to use Bing, even if you’ve specially chosen another search engine and home page. With Microsoft setting such an example, it’s no surprise so many other software developers have followed suit.

Geeks know how to avoid this stuff, but there’s a reason program installers continue to do this. It works and tricks many users, who end up with junk installed and settings changed.

The Update Process is Confusing

On iOS, Android, and Windows RT, software updates come from a single place — the app store. On Linux, software updates come from the package manager. On Mac OS X, typical users’ software updates likely come from the Mac App Store.

On the Windows desktop, software updates come from… well, every program has to create its own update mechanism. Users have to keep track of all these updaters and make sure their software is up-to-date. Most programs now have their act together and automatically update by default, but users who have old versions of Flash and Adobe Reader installed are vulnerable until they realize their software isn’t automatically updating. Even if every program updates properly, the sheer mess of updaters is clunky, slow, and confusing in comparison to a centralized update process.

Browser Plugins Open Security Holes

It’s no surprise that other modern platforms like iOS, Android, Chrome OS, Windows RT, and Windows Phone don’t allow traditional browser plugins, or only allow Flash and build it into the system. Browser plugins provide a wealth of different ways for malicious web pages to exploit the browser and open the system to attack. Browser plugins are one of the most popular attack vectors because of how many users have out-of-date plugins and how many plugins, especially Java, seem to be designed without taking security seriously.

Oracle’s Java plugin even tries to install the terrible Ask toolbar when installing security updates. That’s right — the security update process is also used to cram additional adware into users’ machines so unscrupulous companies like Oracle can make a quick buck. It’s no wonder that most Windows PCs have an out-of-date, vulnerable version of Java installed.

Battery Life is Terrible

Windows PCs have bad battery life compared to Macs, IOS devices, and Android tablets, all of which Windows now competes with. Even Microsoft’s own Surface Pro 2 has bad battery life. Apple’s 11-inch MacBook Air, which has very similar hardware to the Surface Pro 2, offers double its battery life when web browsing. Microsoft has been fond of blaming third-party hardware manufacturers for their poorly optimized drivers in the past, but there’s no longer any room to hide. The problem is clearly Windows.

Why is this? No one really knows for sure. Perhaps Microsoft has kept on piling Windows component on top of Windows component and many older Windows components were never properly optimized.

Windows Users Become Stuck on Old Windows Versions

Apple’s new OS X 10.9 Mavericks upgrade is completely free to all Mac users and supports Macs going back to 2007. Apple has also announced their intention that all new releases of Mac OS X will be free.

In 2007, Microsoft had just shipped Windows Vista. Macs from the Windows Vista era are being upgraded to the latest version of the Mac operating system for free, while Windows PCs from the same era are probably still using Windows Vista.

There’s no easy upgrade path for these people. They’re stuck using Windows Vista and maybe even the outdated Internet Explorer 9 if they haven’t installed a third-party web browser. Microsoft’s upgrade path is for these people to pay $120 for a full copy of Windows 8.1 and go through a complicated process that’s actaully a clean install.

Even users of Windows 8 devices will probably have to pay money to upgrade to Windows 9, while updates for other operating systems are completely free.

If you’re a PC geek, a PC gamer, or someone who just requires specialized software that only runs on Windows, you probably use the Windows desktop and don’t want to switch. That’s fine, but it doesn’t mean the Windows desktop is actually a good experience. Much of the burden falls on average users, who have to struggle with malware, bloatware, adware bundled in installers, complex software installation processes, and out-of-date software. In return, all they get is the ability to use a web browser and some basic Office apps that they could use on almost any other platform without all the hassle.

Microsoft would agree with this, touting Windows RT and their new “Windows 8-style” app platform as the solution. Why else would Microsoft, a “devices and services” company, position the Surface — a device without traditional Windows desktop programs — as their mass-market device recommended for average people?

This isn’t necessarily an endorsement of Windows RT. If you’re tech support for your family members and it comes time for them to upgrade, you may want to get them off the Windows desktop and tell them to get a Mac or something else that’s simple. Better yet, if they get a Mac, you can tell them to visit the Apple Store for help instead of calling you.

That’s another thing Windows PCs don’t offer — good manufacturer support.

KiwiElf

1st June 2016, 03:44

windows 10 is hardcore spyware, and gates is a hardcore globalist.
Unfortunately even my beloved Linux is (potentially) going the way of the globalist dogs.

Probably only a matter of time and my beloved Apple will go that way, too (some devoted iPhone and iPad (not OSX) users are already expressing that view ;))

Johnny

1st June 2016, 09:17

In my search about systemd (you don't know what you have done to me Paul :) !!) I came across this information !

Samsung: Don't install Windows 10. REALLY

source dated 31. may 2016: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/31/windows_10_samsung_fail/

Johnny ;)

Ewan

1st June 2016, 11:39

I had a rather unsettling experience this morning. My boy called me away for a few minutes and when I returned the screen was white. Alt Tab did nothing, not Ctrl Alt Del, in the end I had to hard reboot. I selected start Windows normally at the prompt and Windows failed to load, the splash screen still there after 10 minutes. Another reboot led me to selecting Windows attempt to repair. When offered a chance to use System Restore I declined. Windows finally informed me it could not repair the computer.

Another reboot and chose safe mode admin, this time I selected a system restore and was given two options. First one from 01:56 this morning labelled 'critical update', second choices was from 3 days ago. With relief I selected the second option and waited.

Now here we are, I have just run malwarebytes and checked various settings. Computer is clear and Windows Update is turned off (just like it is meant to be). When I check System Restore points it informs me there are no SRP's created on this computer.

Completely puzzled. Windows reports last check for updates was done in march and I have to go back to dec 2015 for last updates installed. However when I look at update history there is one continuing update process going on all the time, Windows Defender Definition Updates, and there was indeed one at 01:56 this morning.

At 01:56 this morning I was in bed sleeping so unless Windows turned itself on and installed a critical update for Defender I have no idea what just happened. Why did my computer freeze when unattended and appear broken when attempting to restart, only a fortuitous system restore rescued the situation.

(edit: BTW, this is in Windows 10 as I had turned off all the updates and removed the various KB's suggested. I thought this might have been a Win10 install attempt initially and am still not certain one way or the other.)

KiwiElf

1st June 2016, 13:01

Apple's latest OSX showing a dramatic increase in use (doubled from the previous OSX release), since the introduction of Windows 10 (refer to the second graphic table below). This is from the link I provided earlier (might explain Microsofts' underhanded approach):

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

33558

33559

Carmody

1st June 2016, 13:33

I'll play the paranoid other side of the table, expand on my prior post in this thread....and debate that:

They (Microsoft) don't seem to care about possible litigation, as if they are playing a game.... where the outcome.... is that: litigation is not a worry. As in - they are possibly....playing past the potential for litigation. In a space where the litigation simply won't matter. This is due to the forced upgrade being entirely possible to be seen as a direct and full about-faced lie.

Where Microsoft knowingly lies to you, directly, and fully. Where you say no upgrade and their software goes directly against what they themselves have indicated.

Meaning there's something fishy going on. No major corporation, of that size and scope, with that many lawyers, is going to open themselves up to that sort of litigation potential, without a good reason. Losing ground to another bit of software, is not a big enough reason to commit that heinous of a direct crime.

Microsoft is seemingly playing a game that is past, or beyond (in time) the potential for litigation. What is that game, and why is it taking place? (This is 'alarm bells going off in the mind' territory. Spidey sense is tingling, kinda thing)

We are talking about a $100 billion company, with $176 billion in assets, with 118,000 employees, and a row of lawyers a literal mile long, and 41 years of experience in software platforms and how that works, combined with law and litigation.

As in, no matter what a given individual may think and project as a 'logical reason', such an experienced and long live 'tour de force' of that given environment, simply does not make these kinds of legally prosecutable mistakes. The beast of Microsoft is too big, too experienced and too evolved to make such a simple mistake. The real reasoning has to be deeper than that simple surface analysis.

KiwiElf

1st June 2016, 13:40

Yes - Microsoft have very conveniently reworded their EULA agreement for Windows 10, but some big law companies are now actively seeking a Class Action Lawsuit

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/consumer/windows-forced-downloads/

Carmody

1st June 2016, 14:01

To add, major corporations are pretty good a steering themselves, when left to their own complex devices.

when things go against logic, like this move has done, it indicates interference from some small quarter, of a few people, at best.

When a major evolved corporation has a small leadership cadre, that dictates it's moves, when and where the small cadre desires, it starts to look like imperial moves, imperial motions. Like a king or emperor who is steering a massive machine to their will, outside of the logic of how the massive system should work.

We know that Microsoft is globalist oriented. We know that in times of war, as in during and after the second world war, major corporations began to gain 'advisors', who were embedded and/or from the black projects and poltical/elitist interests. Where the evolved company or corporations have a observer advisor who is always near enough to the CEO or controlling group, to dictate to the corporate boardroom controllers, exactly what the corporation is going to do. Via intimidation or whatever methodology. Not all the time, to stay in the shadows and out of the way, so to speak..but... just inference and steering... when this controllist group may desire to have a thing done. To come slowly out of the shadows and tell the corporate boardroom controller(s)s of the given major corporation, exactly what is going to happen.

In such scenario, when addressed as a tool in a toolbox....The corporation might do something that is akin to being a hand or arm, or fist, as opposed to being a corporation that is free to enrich it's own fortunes in a clear and open logical progressive way. Ie, Microsoft's motion(s) here, today.... which seem illogical.... is probably imperialist, oligarchical, and partial.... part of something, not an act of a whole singular independent uncoupled nature.

This is what I see in this move from Microsoft. An out of sight hand ~a hidden hand~.... is seeming to move them about on the global field of war.

Something stinks badly, and the idea of being fearful of losing market share...simply won't cut it. It won't cover up this mess in any logical fashion. It might work with folks with a limited logic reach who then take the simple answer at face value, as they have no experience and no possible potential to reach through layers of logic and levers in the depth of what is really going on out there.

Essentially, I think that someone has tweaked Mircosoft to do this, for reasons that are slightly out of sight.

Hervé

1st June 2016, 14:33

Well...

I downloaded and ran "Never-10"... and got a notice there are 57 updates available to download and install for my Win 7 OS... which I disabled months ago (the scanning and notification for updates).

And, of course, the infamous KB2952664 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2952664#/en-us/kb/2952664) and kb:3035583 (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583#/en-us/kb/3035583) have been re-submitted as "important" updates...

:frusty:

See: Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84971-Microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-Windows-7-and-8-systems)

----------------------------------------------------------------

The Win 10 spies on Win 7:

Win 10 spies
http://www.hakspek.com/security/windows-script-to-remove-all-windows-10-telemetry-updates/ [Defunct]
(http://www.hakspek.com/security/windows-script-to-remove-all-windows-10-telemetry-updates/)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3021917 – “Performance tracker update”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583 – “Get Windows 10 App” (delivers ready to use UAC backdoor as bonus)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2990214 – “Upgrade to Windows 10”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3044374 – “Upgrade to Windows 10”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2952664 – “Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3022345 – “Customer experience and diagnostic telemetry”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3068708 – “Customer experience and diagnostic telemetry”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080149 – “Customer experience and diagnostic telemetry”
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3075249 – “Telemetry points to consent.exe” **this update adds spyware functionality to UAC**

KiwiElf

1st June 2016, 14:42

Yeah, I got the same with "Never 10" tonight (wouldn't work unless I installed all the Windows 7 updates I've avoided). Have had Windows Update turned off for months before they announced Windows 10. However the GWX worked just fine and notified me (despite having Windows Update OFF), that it was "open" for download. One quick click fixed that. Fortunately, it came up clean! No sign of any Windows 10 crap (so far!!).

Bill Ryan

1st June 2016, 14:47

.
Get a Mac. :)

:focus:

ThePythonicCow

2nd June 2016, 15:01

I recommend you download and run Steve Gibson's Never 10 (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm).
So far, as of the time I am posting this, there has been 849,190 downloads of Steve Gibson's Never 10 (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm).

At the rate it's currently going, 35,912 downloads/day, he'll have over one million downloads in the next 4 or 5 days.

That's a lot of people wanting to stop Windows upgrades ... and this is not the only popular tool for doing that.

ThePythonicCow

2nd June 2016, 15:07

.
Get a Mac. :)

:focus:

Tsk, tsk ... Go Go Power Penguin

http://thepythoniccow.us/linux_inside_tux_the_linux_penguin_logo.jpg

ThePythonicCow

2nd June 2016, 15:34

After tightening the screws down a bit on my tin foil hat, which better enables me to pick up the secret spread spectrum transmissions made by beating Smart Power Meter emissions with cell phone tower signals, over a HAARP signal baseband, I was able to pick up a partially garbled message that seemed to imply that:

Microsoft was "under the gun", as Carmody describes above, to get some more easily centrally controlled and monitored software on as many systems as it could.
Apple had pretty much already accomplished that same goal (witness the death at too early an age of Steve Jobs), and the Apple vs FBI flap over unlocking some false flag shooter's cell phone was just a con job, to make us think that Apple was the one we could trust.
The Linux systemd effort is similarly driven, with a similar goal of getting as many systems as possible under the control and watch of a central power.

I concluded that I need to step up my efforts to change my primary PC from a systemd infected Linux distribution (Debian, in my case, presently) to something I can better trust.

ThePythonicCow

2nd June 2016, 17:28

I concluded that I need to step up my efforts to change my primary PC from a systemd infected Linux distribution (Debian, in my case, presently) to something I can better trust.
There's a good chance I will use Qubes (https://www.qubes-os.org/tour/), which uses a bare metal Xen hypervisor, and places the rest, kernels and all, in lightweight Virtual Machines, that share a common terminal, keyboard and mouse interface. I could for example keep each of the following in separate VMs, unable to access each other without my explicit permission:

Web browser sessions with my bank(s),
Web browser sessions with my Fastmail.fm primary email service,
my wanderings to other strange and less trustworthy corners of the web,
my ProjectAvalon administration and backup,
my custom full system backup utility that I've been refining for many years,
my custom DNS server setup,
my super secret keys for Steve Gibson's upcoming Secure Quick Reliable Login (SQRL) (https://www.grc.com/sqrl/demo.htm) login service,
my other super secret private keys (here's my public key (http://thepythoniccow.us/Paul_Avalon_PGP_Public_Key.html)),
my (itsy bitsy) bitcoin wallet,
a Windows 7 boot which supports a more recent Skype than Linux Skype (the other VMs above would be some decent Linux distro),
another Windows 7 boot for occasional testing with Internet Explorer and Edge browsers, ...
etc.

Obviously the above list of VMs I might use in Qubes is custom to my particular circumstances, but it might give an idea of what's practical.

I have tried going to multiple virtual machines a few times before, with VMWare, virtualbox, and kvm, but they were too cumbersome for me to become comfortable with for long term use. Qubes looks promising as the first virtual machine setup that is well enough developed and refined for such use that I can "fit it inside" my brain.

See also this recent DistroWatch review of Qubes: Isolating processes with Qubes OS 3.1 (https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160411#qubes).

Ilie Pandia, another Avalon admin, has long been using virtual machines for his various endeavors, but he runs on native Windows, not native Linux (or Xen). Virtual machine support is apparently more refined on Windows.

I don't recommend using multiple virtual machines unless your system has lots of RAM memory.

===

P.S. -- A Qubes presentation a couple of years ago by Joanna Rutkowska (http://blog.invisiblethings.org/about/), the creator of Qubes:
CqONg8w5nkw

ThePythonicCow

2nd June 2016, 21:40

It's not just our operating systems (and I presume our smart phones and all our Internet traffic) that are likely deeply compromised, it's the CPU (central processing unit) running inside each of our computers.

I and others have commented above that it seems to the paranoid amongst us that Windows, Mac OS X and Linux (via systemd, at least) are at risk of being deeply compromised by selected minions of the bastards in power.

It's perhaps worse than that. Joanna Rutkowska (http://blog.invisiblethings.org/about/), the creator of Qubes that I mentioned in my previous post just above, has written an analysis of the The Intel Management Engine (ME) which is a computer within the computer, running inside any recent Intel CPU, even when the computer seems shutdown, if power is available. Our handheld and wireless devices often never shutdown, so long as their battery has power, so that they can "wake up" on an incoming message or call.

The Intel ME has absolute privilege over any system software running on the CPU. The Intel ME could for example do things like scan RAM memory for things that look like private crypto keys and send them out over the Internet, unbeknownst to us. The Intel ME is almost entirely hidden from us peons. It makes the infamous Clipper Chip (https://www.epic.org/crypto/clipper/) of the 1990's look like an eight inch (8") floppy disk in comparison. The Intel ME is a security nightmare.

Here is Joanna Rutkowska's blog post describing and linking to her paper: Intel x86 considered harmful (http://blog.invisiblethings.org/2015/10/27/x86_harmful.html)

Here is a direct link to her actual paper: Intel x86 considered harmful (pdf) (http://blog.invisiblethings.org/papers/2015/x86_harmful.pdf)

Here is the free 238 page book, that Rutkowska mentions, written by a lead Intel developer, describing what's publicly provided about this Intel Management Engine (ME): Platform Embedded Security Technology Revealed -- Safeguarding the Future of Computing with Intel Embedded Security and Management Engine, By Xiaoyu Ruan (pdf) (http://thepythoniccow.us/Intel_Management_Engine_Platform_Embedded_Security.pdf)

Joanna concludes her paper with these remarks:

Finally, the Intel Management Engine (ME) technology, which is now part of
all Intel processors, stands out as very troublesome, as explained in one of the
chapters above. Sadly, and most depressing, there is no option for us users to
opt-out from having this on our computing devices, whether we want it or not.
The author considers this as probably the biggest mistake the PC industry has
got itself into she has every witnessed.

Bob

2nd June 2016, 22:18

ThePythonicCow

2nd June 2016, 23:21

This is pbly a dumb question Paul, but isn't there firewalls (apps) which can be turned on to analyze any outgoing and incoming packets, and block selectively any data-dump to any 3rd party?

In task-manager in windows 7 one can turn off all the tasks that obviously send out reports to MS and others.

What's the issue with proper packet management then?
A bulk, unencrypted, frequently sent, data dump could likely be seen.

A covert channel, perhaps say by manipulating the CPU's random number generating instruction to make subtle (invisible if you don't know what to look for) choices of certain random encryption keys, or that perhaps was never even invoked until some magic incoming Internet packet with a "special" byte sequence, would be virtually impossible to find if you didn't know what you were looking for.

The volume of data, the variety of data formats, many encrypted, and the complexity and speed of the hardware and possible connections involved ... makes it almost certain that a sufficiently capable party, such as Intel, could hide covert intelligence gathering indefinitely.

PathWalker

3rd June 2016, 09:38

windows 10 is hardcore spyware, and gates is a hardcore globalist.
All the major Linux Distributions except a few such as Arch Linux and Devuan (a Debian fork) have adopted a Windows like piece of humongous, always changing, inscrutable, runs as SystemAdmin, system management software called Systemd. I found Windows Registry easier to deal with. Red Hat, SuSE, Ubuntu, and Debian have all folded and joined the Systemd bandwagon.

Greetings Paul, and I follow along with your rant.:clapping:
As you wisely noted the systemd challenge/controversy is not technical anymore.
The core of the controversy are:
1. Linux philosophy (the kiss principle)
2. Trust in the community process (contributors + maintainers)
3. Convergence vs divergences in the Linux community

Without getting into the technical details (technical is my comfort zone) making sense to the common reader.
Your rant is a symptom of maturing OSS (Open Source Software) community. We see few trends indicating this maturity.
1. Convergence on few dominant contemporary technologies (programming technologies, virtualization, hardware interfaces...)
2. Complexity increase exponentially with divergent technologies and backward compatibility
3. Emergence of open standards, dominating the market place

I am glad to see these trends in the OSS community.
And the main reason I am sticking my neck to stay with OSS platforms (such as Linux) solutions is:
1. I trust the OSS communities, for technical and political decisions. Better than I trust the commercial alternatives (NO Mac thank you!!!)
2. Controlled system evolution with ease of migration across competing Linux distributions (I control what is upgraded and when. Also I can easily change my Linux distributions, all my data is mounted on a pluggable disk).
3. I embrace the OSS evolution path. Mistakes will/do happen and will be replaced/corrected (as happened to many OSS projects, I can name allot).

I endorse the OSS statement "With freedom comes responsibility".
I am a geek and can easily destroy a system.
Common sheople want simplicity and conformity. Let them have Android, iOS and Windows.
If a person want to regain her/his freedom than take the responsibility, and control your computing environment.

For the uninitiated I suggest the following:
1. Use Ubuntu (as your first introductory Linux), its easy simple and very Android/Smartphone like.
2. Port all your data into a pluggable encrypted disk (not cloud, since cloud requires Internet connection, use cloud for backup)

There are many instructional videos on YouTube for many tasks.
Good luck and enjoy your freedom.
PathWalker

ThePythonicCow

3rd June 2016, 17:34

It just got one notch even worse for Windows 7 or 8 users who don't want Windows 10.

The little [x] in the upper right corner of the pop-up to "Schedule your upgrade" has now been removed entirely. That little [x] is the usual icon on Windows to close a pop-up with no further action.

The only options are (1) upgrade now, or (2) schedule an upgrade.

If scheduled, the scheduled time cannot be changed later on, and your Windows PC will upgrade at the scheduled time, or if turned off, at the next time your PC is turned on.

Here's the screen shot that was originally posted at TheRegister:

http://thepythoniccow.us/upgrade_or_else.png
Here's the article on TheRegister reporting this: Windows 10 nagware: You can't click X. Make a date OR ELSE – reader (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/01/windows_10_nagware_no_way_out/).

Hervé

3rd June 2016, 18:35

If anyone gets that screen ^^^ (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88648-Windows-10-Turn-off-automatic-update-or-else...&p=1072552&viewfull=1#post1072552), before unplugging the internet or shutting one's computer down, one can run "taskmgr."

Running "taskmgr": Type taskmgr.exe in the "Start" ---> "Run..." box ---> "Enter"

In the "Applications" tab, see if there is anything Win-10 related that's running and if so: highlight/click on the application line then click "End Task." If there is nothing Win-10 related there, switch to the "Processes" tab and look for any Win-10 related processes and highlight/click the(se) process(es) which correspond to that window (one may need to click on "Show processes from all users" in the "Processes" tab, first) and click: "End process" to close that window and terminate its attending processes.

Download GRC's Steve Gibson's "Never 10 (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm)" and run it!

Download GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/gwx-control-panel-troubleshooting-guide.html) and run it! It will show what's left to do, delete or fix.

ThePythonicCow

3rd June 2016, 18:38

3. Emergence of open standards, dominating the market place
Systemd is not, at heart, in the way that it is evolving, an open standard.

Granted, it is open source, in the sense that it is licensed under a Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) (http://www.freeopensourcesoftware.org) compliant license.

But its content is crammed down onto the open source community from a few arrogant people, beginning with Systemd's creators, Lennart Poettering amd Kay Sievers, at a rate, and in a manner, and with an unending expansion of features and complexity, that is antithetical to the spirit of good open source software, and that is antithetical to how quality, reliable, secure software must be developed.

A couple of years ago, Linus Torvalds, the king penguin of Linux, even banned Kay Sievers from working on the Linux kernel, as described here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/05/torvalds_sievers_dust_up/).

This is not the first time that key Red Hat developers endeavored to encapsulate and gain control over key kernel or classic low level system code in user space, wrapping it in an additional layer of inscrutable and expanding complexity. I had a similar, smaller battle myself, with another Red Hat developer, Ulrich Drepper, the primary developer of the GNU C library (glibc) for many years. I was the primary creator of Linux kernel cpusets, which is used to manage the assignment of the memory and processors on large (thousands of CPUs in a single shared memory system image) systems to various jobs. Ulrich set forth a plan to have glibc to replace some of the actual kernel system calls for managing a systems CPUs and memory, with a more limited wrapper he was designing. I won that battle, though not before my manager called me out on the carpet for not working well with other companies, such as Red Hat in this case, in the open source community. Ulrich eventually stepped down from his role as the primary glibc maintainer, though not after a long record of pissing people off with his attitude. For the last six years, Ulrich has been a Vice President of the Technology Division, at Goldman Sachs. (What the heck ... is that a payoff to Ulrich for doing so much to sabotage glibc?)

PathWalker

3rd June 2016, 20:28

ThePythonicCow

3rd June 2016, 21:59

Well, well, well ... as I chuckle gleefully under my breath. All that work, for almost a year now, trying to give Windows 10 away for free, and when that wasn't working, forcing it on people for free ... and

Windows 7 remains the King of the Hill, with almost half the entire market, and with nearly three times the market share of Windows 10.
Here are recent stats, based on the identify of the operating system of users of major web sites (after excluding the big search bots), from http://netmarketshare.com/:

http://thepythoniccow.us/Screenshot_PC_OS_Market_Share_May_2016.png

KiwiElf

4th June 2016, 00:43

And the million dollar question... WHAT is this leading to? WHY are MS so determined to get every Windows operated PC out there onto Windows 10 and WHY such a blatantly forceful approach? [somewhat of a rhetorical question I know, and I guess the answer(s) would be speculation, but there MUST be a reason, and I doubt, good for us!...]. I dread to think what this must be costing companies dependent on Windows :facepalm:

This recent article explains some of it (full article at link) - the comments following are well worth the read

33583

Why Windows 10 Sucks or Everything Wrong with Windows 10

Table of contents

Why Windows is dead
Why every Windows version sucks
Why Windows 10 sucks
How to partially fix Windows 10
Why Windows 10 is spyware
Busting Windows 10 myths
I've got Windows 10 preinstalled on my PC/laptop, I hate it, what should I do?
Comments

http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

VL4gY-aF1PA

seah

4th June 2016, 14:16

My daughter came home for the summer with windows 10 on her laptop. A friend downloaded it for her thinking he was 'helping', now it's too late to remove it. I have found using google on it quite interesting. When I searched how to remove windows 10, it found no websites, and when searching on fringe subjects it is inadequate as well...first options seem to clearly be obfuscations, as if I've rendered it confused with my search.

ThePythonicCow

4th June 2016, 20:20

Oops - Microsoft is pissing off the Chinese too :).

From Chinese Users Criticize Microsoft’s Push for Windows 10 Upgrade (Fortune Magazine) (http://fortune.com/2016/05/28/china-microsoft-windows-10-upgrade/):

===========

Chinese users of Microsoft products are criticising the software company’s push to get them to mandatorily upgrade their Windows operating systems, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Friday.

Posts critical of Microsoft on microblog site Weibo relating to the Windows 10 upgrade, which Microsoft users must switch to, have grown to over 1.2 million in number, it said.

“The company has abused its dominant market position and broken the market order for fair play,” Xinhua quoted Zhao Zhanling, a legal adviser with the Internet Society of China, as saying.

...Xinhua said Windows’ pop-up upgrade window does not offer a “decline” option, only an option to upgrade later, while computers with older versions of Windows would automatically start the update at a recommended time if users ignored the pop-up.

Yang Shuo, a worker at a Beijing-based public relations company, told Xinhua that the sudden update interrupted his drafting of a business plan and led to a meeting cancellation for a deal worth 3 million yuan ($457,735).

“Just because I didn’t see the pop-up reminder does not mean I agreed,” he said.
===========

gord

4th June 2016, 21:19

One Windows Way. Just say Gnu!

Hervé

6th June 2016, 15:46

Even in remotest Africa, Windows 10 nagware ruins your day: Update burns satellite link cash (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_satellite_link/)

3 Jun 2016 at 22:11, Iain Thomson (http://www.theregister.co.uk/Author/2395)

Lives could have been put at risk by pushy upgrade

https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/06/03/chinko_project.jpg?x=648&y=348&crop=1
Protectors ... Anti-poachers on patrol for the Chinko Project (Source (https://vimeo.com/95532257))

(https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_satellite_link/&title=Even%20in%20remotest%20Africa%2C%20Windows%2010%20nagware%20ruins%20your%20day%3A%20Update%20b urns%20satellite%20link%20cash&summary=Lives%20could%20have%20been%20put%20at%20risk%20by%20pushy%20upgrade) When you're stuck in the middle of the Central African Republic (CAR) trying to protect the wildlife from armed poachers and the Lord's Resistance Army, then life's pretty tough. And now Microsoft has made it tougher with Windows 10 upgrades.

The Chinko Project (http://www.chinkoproject.com/) manages roughly 17,600 square kilometres (6,795 square miles) of rainforest and savannah in the east of the CAR, near the border with South Sudan. Money is tight, and so is internet bandwidth. So the staff was more than a little displeased when one of the donated laptops the team uses began upgrading to Windows 10 automatically, pulling in gigabytes of data over a radio link.

And it's not just bandwidth bills they have to worry about.

"If a forced upgrade happened and crashed our PCs while in the middle of coordinating rangers under fire from armed militarized poachers, blood could literally be on Microsoft's hands," said (https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/) one member of the team.

"I just came here recently to act as their pilot but have IT skills as well. The guy who set these PCs up didn't know how to prevent it, or set a metered connection. I am completely livid."

The Reg has been reporting a lot (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/26/microsoft_clarifies_upgrade_trick/) on the Windows 10 upgrade fiasco, so decided to investigate – and the story checks out. A team member told us the Chinko Project uses satellite communications for internet access and gets charged quite a lot for data, so the multi-gigabyte automatic upgrade was even more frustrating than for the rest of us.

"We don't need to upgrade our internet, as the limited bandwidth we have is sufficient. But we just can't abide these forced upgrades and secret downloads," one member, who asked to remain anonymous, told El Reg. "We have donated laptops with Windows 7 and 8 all over the place that I'm trying to track down and fix."

To add insult to injury, the team had only just got their satellite system up and running again after a storm tore open the roof of the building housing the setup. After taking a battering, the hardware is operational again, but is needed for far more serious things than pumping up Windows 10 usage figures.

https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/06/03/blocking_upgrade.jpg (https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/06/03/blocking_upgrade.jpg)
Stopped ... One of the project's satellite-linked computers installing a Windows 10 blocker
[GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/gwx-control-panel-troubleshooting-guide.html)]

It's not easy running something like the Chinko Project. The non-profit group is trying to protect a huge amount of land containing forest and savannah elephants, as well as lions, leopard, and the beautiful Bongo antelope.

The project set up motion-activated cameras over the area to catalogue and research the surrounding wildlife, and has collected over 700,000 sightings. It works with local people to provide employment and education in its quest to preserve this unique part of Africa.

However, they are having to deal with armed ivory poachers who see the preserve as a source of quick cash, as well as cattle herders harvesting bush meat for sale. The Lord's Resistance Army, a religious cult, has also been spotted in the CAR, adding to the site's troubles.

The project has rangers who patrol the area as much as possible against well-armed and determined foes. To do this more efficiently, the project has a small aircraft that can coordinate movements and track both wildlife and incursions.

Sadly, an unexpectedly rough landing has put the aircraft out of action and the group is now trying to raise the funds to get a new one. It's vitally important to get the team airborne again, so if you want to do some good check out the fundraising site (https://www.generosity.com/animal-pet-fundraising/the-chinko-project-african-anti-poaching-team) and contribute some beer vouchers if you can, and Microsoft should also hand over a big donation for inconveniencing and potentially endangering the group. ®

KiwiElf

7th June 2016, 04:20

Interesting that MS is DENYING automatic & forced upgrade and according to their EULA, they can't be sued. Logically, if you had Windows 10 forcefully installed, you never had a chance to read, agree or disagree to it. Last time I checked, the EULA appears BEFORE the install commences. If it were an "upgrade", then it would be 8.2 not 10. It's a complete OS replacement. Please lawyers,... wake up to this and start kicking MS's butt where it hurts?

Good article, and the comments after (on the original link) are pretty heated! Written back in March this year, compare what MS have done since, in just two short months!

Updategate: Microsoft is reportedly upgrading PCs to Windows 10 automatically

Chris Merriman

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2450852/updategate-microsoft-is-reportedly-upgrading-pcs-to-windows-10-automatically

MICROSOFT HAS faced its critics headlong, albeit two weeks later and not very well, with a statement to the INQUIRER clarifying its position on automatic updates to Windows 10 Professional.

We're asked to point to Microsoft article KB3080351, entitled 'How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options'.

In it, Microsoft answers almost all the burning questions which we've had following the mass of complaints regarding the process, apart from, um, round about none of 'em.

The company includes details of what the upgrade arrangements are for Windows 10 Professional and how they can be overridden. However, this is all information that (to use Microsoft's own language) needed 'transparency' before the run of complaints from users who don't read every blog and Knowledge Base article like it's a holy scripture because they're, you know, doing their jobs and that.

It has the feeling of Arthur Dent's experience with the local council in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

"It was on display at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard."

It quoth, "Qualified computers and devices that are deployed in your organization and that are running Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1 Pro are eligible for the free Windows 10 upgrade offer and will be able to upgrade through Windows Update."

In other words "Professional doesn't mean Enterprise, so you'll get an upgrade".

The company previously issued a statement denying claims from users that Windows 10 has begun to install automatically onto their machines.

It emphasised that users still have control over when their update takes place. The statement reads

"We shared in late October on the Windows Blog, we are committed to making it easy for our Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 customers to upgrade to Windows 10. As stated in that post, we have updated the upgrade experience to make it easier for customers to schedule a time for their upgrade to take place," a Microsoft spokesperson told the INQUIRER.

"Customers continue to be fully in control of their devices, and can choose to not install the Windows 10 upgrade or remove the upgrade from Windows Update (WU) by changing the WU settings."

The blog in question says, "Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a "Recommended Update". Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device.

"Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade (our recommendation!), then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don't love it."

Customers are, however, still feeling that for whatever reason, they are not in control over the process, claiming that it has started updating automatically. Whether that is because the process has gone wrong, or because the wording of the update has been phrased to make it sound inevitable is debatable and that part we've had no clear explanation of.

This is already happening with the "Upgrade Now" and "Upgrade Tonight" options which don't have a clear explanation of how to opt out. So not "transparent" at all then. Microsoft may choose to argue that they are giving you the option, however obtusely it is phrased.

More worrying, however, is the fact that all this still fails to engage with the hundreds of users who claim that their update has started automatically and is a problem.

A discussion on Reddit first claimed that users of Windows 7 Professional, which already had a payload of nagware for Internet Explorer dumped on it last Patch Tuesday, have seen their machines updating without any user intervention at all.

"This came up on all of our work computers. I told IT. They basically said oh f**k," said one Redditor.

The action led to comments where life was actually being put at risk by the unilateral action: "I needed to set up my department's bronchoscopy cart quickly for someone with some sick lungs. I **** you not, when I turned on the computer it had to do a Windows update."

Microsoft had promised to ramp up its efforts to enforce updates last year within Windows Update as it pushes to meet its target of over two billion devices running Windows 10 by 2017.

However, the company has come under increasing scrutiny for the heavy-handed approach to the process, which is having disastrous consequences for some.

"It broke my dad's Bootcamp configuration for OS X. Windows 10 loves to switch to using UEFI and can break other boot loaders."

The problem seems to be affecting all manner of organisations.

"We've been getting calls trickling in all week from doctor's offices, dental practices, B&Bs, and roofing companies - among others - that have been hit by this and it's a ****ing mess.

"In some cases the upgrade went OK and the user is just really confused. In others Windows 10 is asking for a login password the user set years ago and hasn't used since, that was fun. In still another it's screwed up access to their shared folders.

"I'm >this < close to telling the techs to disable automatic updates completely for all business customers."

Others have likened the experience to being violated.

"It happened to me last week. I'm still furious. It feels like someone broke into my house, installed spyware on my computer and rendered my favorite applications useless. **** you Microsoft. **** you to hell."

The problem reportedly affected even system administrators who had previously blocked the upgrade as Microsoft appears to have reclassified it, meaning that it has to be blocked again to avoid this happening.

In the interest of balance, an Australian reader wrote to us overnight with an angry retort exclaiming that they had no problem whatsoever with the upgrade process and that we ought to mention it. So now we have. It's not affecting everyone. But we knew that.

Even if this turns out to be an accident, this is the second one since Windows 10 was launched and the company has to make sure that there isn't a third. Next time it could be a life-support machine. An extreme example, and we realise that the chances of a life support machine being left this vulnerable are tiny. But the point remains.

This level of power without responsibility will eventually end up killing somebody.

PS - Just had a distraught friend call, Windows 10 forcefully installed itself onto her computer which has turned it into a brick. I suggested she do the rollback (she's scared that will make it worse), and turn Windows Update OFF and get one of the previously mentioned utilities to get rid of it. She is pissed off big time (all her work-related stuff is gone - she's now considering getting a Mac...)

ThePythonicCow

7th June 2016, 09:53

The key is (or was?) that Arch supports (ed?) removing Systemd: http://systemd-free.org/
These instructions for removing Systemd from an Arch installation work. I wouldn't recommend Arch, or these instructions for someone who is not fairly experienced in such things. But for those who are experienced, the instructions, and the Arch distribution (now running on a system near me) could be well worth considering.

KiwiElf

7th June 2016, 10:29

The "thing" is though, that most computer users just want to plug it in and it goes, no problems. If Windows was a car, would you keep it or demand a full refund and buy something else?

That was and is Apple's basic philosophy. You shouldn't have to "get under the bonnet and tune the damned thing up" every other week! :)

KiwiElf

7th June 2016, 10:59

Need more convincing to go to Mac?

http://www.macworld.co.uk/review/mac-software/os-x-yosemite-vs-windows-10-comparison-review-3591944/

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10 compared

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10 - Which is best: Mac OS X or Windows 10 UPDATED
Who’s better, who’s best? We all have our preferences but does the all-new Windows 10 release have enough features to knock Yosemite off its perch?

by Keir Thomas | 14 Aug 15

Free (Yosemite); Windows 10: Free upgrade for Windows 7/8/8.1 home users within upgrade period; corporate users and/or users of Windows Enterprise should consult their vendors

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10 compared

It's been a rough few years for Microsoft but Windows 10, which was released on 29 July 2015, has seen a resurgence of interest. It’s feels like the 1990s all over again as PC users coo with delight at what appears to be a genuinely usable version of Windows. But while PC users might be thrilled, how does Microsoft’s latest offering compare to OS X Yosemite?

The similarities lie in more than the version number. In fact, Windows X – sorry, that should be Windows 10 – is spookily similar to OS X in many key areas.

Read our OS X Yosemite review Plus: Doesn't Windows 10 sound rather like OS X to you...

And here’s what is coming in the next version of OS X and our preview of OS X El Capitan

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Price

Apple has been giving OS X away for free since it introduced Mavericks in 2013. Just open the App Store and click Updates, or click Apple > Software Updates, and you can upgrade for zero cost if you haven’t already. If you buy a new Mac then you get all the iWork and iLife apps free too.

Well, wouldn’t you know but Windows 10 is a completely free upgrade too! There are conditions. This is Microsoft, after all. You need to be an existing Windows 8/8.1, Windows Phone 8.1 or Windows 7 user (sorry Vista users!) and you also need to be relatively quick because you’ve only a year in which to upgrade after the “Get Windows 10” app first appeared uninvited on your system. (It’s not yet clear what happens once the year is up but Microsoft moots a $110 fee in the upgrade app.) The free upgrade doesn’t stretch to corporate users who are covered by volume licensing.

How get Windows 10 free

Windows 10 is free for home users running Win7/8/8.1, but only for a limited period while Microsoft’s feeling generous

Windows 10 deprecates quite a few features and sometimes asks for cash if you want them back. You might have to pay £11.59 for Windows DVD Player, for example, although this is free for some Windows 7 users for an unspecified “limited time” – although tread carefully because early reports say the app is both basic and might not even work correctly.

Even the Windows stalwart de-stressing tools Minesweeper and Solitaire now feature in-app purchases and must be installed manually via the Windows Store.

Any thoughts Microsoft turned a new leaf and become generous like Apple are dashed pretty quickly.

If you want to play DVDs then you might need to hand over cash for the Windows DVD Player app

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Desktop

Yosemite’s desktop was visually overhauled with a new flat look but functionally is mostly identical to earlier releases of OS X. You get the Dock, from which you can launch apps, or open files and folders via Stacks. Mission Control lets you see what apps and documents are open, and switch between them via a graphical representation of their program windows as thumbnails. Spaces lets you switch between apps running in full-screen mode and also create or switch to additional desktops.

OS X Yosemite’s desktop is simple, elegant, functional and very pretty – the perfect workspace

Apple was also clever enough to know that it’s not yet time – if there ever will be a time – when desktop and mobile can be merged into one sticky whole.

Windows 8’s basic fault was not understanding this, of course, and for desktop users Windows 10 apologises by restoring the Start menu, which was mostly banished from Windows 8. We don’t wave goodbye to Windows 8’s Live Tiles because the new Start menu is a hybrid. At the left is the familiar listing of features and apps – it’s here you’ll click the Power link to shutdown or suspend, for example, or access a list of your installed apps – while at the right are Live Tiles similar to those in Windows 8. This makes the desktop Start menu now firmly landscape in orientation, rather than vertical, but this makes sense considering most laptop and desktop screens are widescreen nowadays.

Windows 10’s Start menu is a mishmash of the traditional and the new Windows 8 Live Tiles. It works surprisingly well

Windows 10 doesn’t abandon the Metro-style apps that came with Windows 8, such as News, Money, Sports and Weather. These continue to eschew ribbons, icon bars or menus in favour of a sparse web-page-styled approach but they do run in program windows when Windows 10 is used in the default desktop mode. It’s still a little jarring that some apps have toolbars and/or menus, and others don’t, but it’s less irksome than you might think. It’s sacrilege compared to the elegant homogeneity that defines the OS X experience but, hey, Windows users aren’t even aware of such things are possible.

If you just can’t live without the everything-fullscreen-all-the-time approach of Windows 8 switch to Tablet Mode – although this means the Start menu and all apps, including traditional desktop apps like Office, fill the screen. In fact, Windows 10 includes Continuum, which makes switching between desktop and tablet modes automatic for those who use hybrid devices that feature detachable keyboards. This simply isn’t an issue for Apple laptops, of course – and hopefully never will be. If you want a tablet then get an iPad. If you want a laptop then get a MacBook. It’s super simple.

Windows tablet mode

If you really liked the Windows 8 fullscreen approach you can switch to Tablet Mode, and Windows Continuum can do this automatically for laptops with detachable keyboards

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Notifications

Significantly boosted in Yosemite, the Notification Area lets your apps and OS X tell you important stuff, and also provides a home for widgets that show information like weather, or that let you perform quick and dirty tasks like calculate sums. Third party apps can add in their own useful widgets too. You can open Notification Area by clicking the icon at the top right of the desktop, or swiping in on a trackpad from the right-hand side with two fingers, but it otherwise keeps out of the way.

Notifications on a Mac

Notification Area on Yosemite provides widgets for quick functionality as well as a way of telling you about recent events and emails

Surprise, surprise – Windows 10’s Action Centre is almost identical to Notification Area, although is named after a similar feature on the older Windows Phone OS. You open Action Centre on the desktop by clicking an icon at the bottom right and, like Notification Area, it slides in from the right of the screen. New email notifications appear here, for example, but in reality the equivalent functionality of OS X’s Notification Area is spread across both the Action Centre and the new Start menu’s Live Tiles. These are “Live” because most update to show relevant information -- the Weather tile shows current conditions, for example. Provided its set to Wide or Large mode (you can choose by right-clicking it), the Mail Live Tile will list your latest emails – even though these are also listed in the Action Centre. True, the Action Centre’s listing is longer and more detailed, but you may find yourself bouncing between two desktop features that logically and easily could be combined into one – as Apple demonstrates.

Do Not Disturb on OS X and iOS lets you turn off notifications for a set period, controlled in System Preferences on a Mac. This too has been half-inched for Windows 10, with the equivalent feature within Action Centre being Quiet Hours.

Action Centre on Windows

It’s fair to call Action Centre a rip-off of Notification Area, and it even includes a clone of Do Not Disturb in the form of Quiet Hours

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Window organisation

Yosemite firms-up Apple’s goal for apps to run either as traditional program windows or full-screen. It does this by switching the maximise button (the green blob at the top left of windows) to a full-screen option. Working full-screen in apps courtesy of Mission Control and Spaces makes life significantly easier on smaller screens such as those on MacBooks.

As mentioned, Windows 10 splits out full-screen working to a dedicated tablet mode that you can switch on and off – a little irksome if you use a laptop with a small screen, although apps can still be maximised to occupy most of the desktop in the same way that’s been possible for a few decades now.

But more signs of Microsoft’s (ahem) homage to OS X Yosemite can be found in Windows 10’s new Task view – named with a typical lack of imagination. This looks, feels and smells like Mission Control, even allowing you to create new desktop spaces if you’re switched to Desktop Mode. In Tablet Mode it merely lets you switch between fullscreen apps. Task view replaces the ages-old Alt+Tab switcher, so forms a central part of the Windows 10 experience.

WIndows 10 Taskview

Look familiar? Task View is basically Mission Control, which has been a key part of OS X for years. It’s more basic although still allows access to additional desktop spaces

Windows 7 introduced the Snap window organisation tool, which lets you click and drag windows to the top or side of the screen in order to arrange them neatly into full-screen or half-screen sizes. Windows 10 enhances this with a little of the Task view magic – bash a window into the left of the screen, for example, and it’ll be arranged so it fills half the screen while the right will fill with a Mission Control-like thumbnail listing of windows. Selecting any will then fill the remainder of the screen.

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Search

The Spotlight search tool is one of OS X’s greatest features. As Steve Jobs pointed out when he introduced it back in 2004, it makes the concept of a file system redundant and provides access to all types of data. You can use Spotlight to open files, start apps, search emails, and much more. In Yosemite it’s also been expanded to perform ultra-rapid web, Wikipedia, App Store, and map searches. Use Spotlight right and it will form the heart of your Mac experience.

Spotlight on a Mac

Spotlight is central to the OS X experience in that it can find files, provide dictionary look-ups, and much more

It’s with search that Microsoft has arguably leapfrogged OS X Yosemite because Windows 10 brings Cortana to the desktop. This is Microsoft’s Siri-a-like personal assistant that was introduced to mobile devices with the Windows 8.1 update. A new search field declaring the user should “Ask me anything” appears to the right of the Start button, and here you can type your query: “What’s the weather going to be tomorrow”, for example, or “What’s the most recent Arsenal score”. If you’ve a microphone plugged-in then you can just say “Hey Cortana” and start speaking – not entirely unlike saying “Hey Siri” when your iPhone or iPad is charging.

Cortana arguably isn’t as clever or elegant as Siri, and can spend a lot of time “thinking” about what you ask. More often than not you’ll be booted off to a Bing web search in any event. The Notebook feature lets you directly inform Cortana about yourself, which is a nice touch, but we’re not convinced personal assistants need to be instructed in this way. We’d rather they just learned from our existing queries.

Cortana is Microsoft’s clone of Siri and it arrives on Windows 10 in the form of a search field alongside the Start button

However, the inclusion of Cortana is a win for Microsoft. We remain baffled as to why Apple hasn’t yet ported Siri to OS X. It’s such an obvious trick to integrate it with Spotlight. Read: Siri for Mac launch date
OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Continuity features

While its operating systems are unique, Apple offers a number of features that unify both OS X and iOS. Apple has unified these features underneath the banner of Continuity and they include Airdrop, which is significantly boosted in Yosemite to let you share files between not just desktop computers, but also iOS devices.

Continuity on OS X lets you make calls or send genuine SMS via your iPhone, and it works extremely well

Windows 10 simply has nothing similar, which is somewhat crazy considering that the Windows 10 “Core” runs on all devices.

You have been able to send SMS messages to other iCloud users on your Mac since Mavericks in 2013, but now you can text anyone from your Mac, regardless of what smartphone they are using. Also new in Yosemite is the ability to make and receive calls on your Mac using your iPhone number (your iPhone just needs to be nearby with Bluetooth turned on).

Again, there’s nothing in Windows 10 that even comes close to this level of integration. The nearest equivalent is IP-based messaging services like Skype. If you're sending an SMS and both parties use Skype, Windows 10 will automatically flip to Skype so you can have a real-time conversation, whether that's continuing to use IM, or switching to a voice or video call.
OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Apps

Apple travelled more than a few steps down the path of unifying work patterns across iOS devices and Macs in Yosemite. Another new Continuity feature lets apps share data instantly between OS X and iOS. Thanks to Handoff, you can start an email on your iPad and you can pick it up instantly on your Mac, and vice versa. While there are separate versions of, for example, Apple's iWork apps, Pages, Numbers and Keynote, for each device, all documents are kept in sync so that you can easily pick up from where you left off on one device and continue working on another. Since Yosemite all documents can be stored on iCloud Drive and accessed on any device.

Because it's the same operating system across all devices, Universal Apps designed for Windows 10 will work with phones, small tablets and PCs. If you are using one Windows device you should find that apps look and feel the same across different devices and screen sizes. Data will be saved and will sync automatically via Microsoft's OneDrive. Full Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Outlook will be included on phones - complete with the familiar Office Ribbon. The full Word engine will be built into the email app so you can format text just as you would in a document. A recent documents list will be available to all Windows 10 devices.

Many apps are getting an overhaul for Windows 10. For example, the Photos app has been improved so you'll see the same photo stream across your Windows 10 devices. This sounds a lot like the soon to launch iCloud Photo Library, currently in beta which will allow you to access all your photos from any of your Apple devices, and even a non Apple device via iCloud on the web.

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: App Store

Apple introduced the App Store concept to the world and it was immediately stolen by Google and Microsoft. Still, Apple’s used to that kind of thing. However, at least Microsoft is showing some initiative because Windows 10 unifies the Windows Store across all devices. Desktop and mobile versions of Windows 10 share APIs making it easy for developers to create a single app that’ll work on tablets and desktop computers. For users this means simplicity and perhaps the ability to buy an app once and use it everywhere.

In contrast, the iOS App Store and its Mac brother are entirely separate affairs. While there would be little sense in users running most iOS apps on OS X, and it’d be preposterous to suggest OS X apps should work on iOS, the ability to play iOS games on a Mac would certainly be welcome. This is technically feasible using existing software provided to developers so wouldn’t take a lot of adaptation to be integrated into a future release of OS X.

So, with its improved app store, Windows 10 scores a point over Yosemite!

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Gaming & gimmicks

Windows 10 brings Xbox Live to the desktop. Players will also be able to play Xbox One games on their PC by streaming them directly from their console to their Windows 10 tablet or PC within their home. Windows 10 gamers will be able to play against people on their Xbox One in multiplayer games. Game recording is also built into Windows 10 for Windows games.

Xbox in Windows 10

Microsoft cleverly extends its Xbox gaming empire onto Windows 10, allowing you to play games from your console on your PC screen

Microsoft is also working on an augmented reality system called HoloLens, using a headset a little like Google Glass. Windows 10 will be the first holographic computing platform and a set of APIs will mean developers can create holographic experiences in the real world. Apparently HoloLens lets you interact with 'holograms' that you see. You could use HoloLens to play games in a virtual 3D environment.

Outside of basic puzzlers, OS X has never been much of a gaming platform. The introduction of Steam is changing this slowly but Apple’s hardly pushing hard here. Additionally, so far modern-era Apple has steered clear of gimmicks like virtual reality headsets. We’ve got to say that we’re in no rush for this state of affairs to change.

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: iCloud vs OneDrive

Both iCloud and OneDrive offer the ability to sync files and settings via a magical shared folder whose contents are automatically duplicated on each of your computers and devices. However, OneDrive bears more resemblance to DropBox. Given iCloud’s issues – some of which are very serious – we have to say this mimicry is no bad thing. OneDrive is hard-coded into Windows 10, just like iCloud is in Yosemite and El Capitan, in that both appear in Finder/File Explorer.

iCloud is OS X’s cloud storage option and it just about works, although there remain quite a few usability hurdles that Microsoft’s OneDrive has already leaped over

OneDrive also provides remote access to ALL files on a user’s hard disk – including network shares if they’re mapped to drive letters. This a little like Back To My Mac on OS X, although much easier to setup because file transfer is handled via OneDrive rather than via a complicated port mapping setup that frequently doesn’t work. We have to say that OneDrive wins here again.

Any sensible person on either OS X or OneDrive will use Dropbox instead. But while OneDrive is far from innovative, we have to say it’s a more solid offering than iCloud – at least right now. It’s also quite a lot cheaper to buy space.

While most sensible people will simply use Dropbox, OneDrive is a compelling clone that’s significantly cheaper than iCloud – and it’s built into Windows 10’s File Explorer

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Internet and PIM tools

The Safari browser gained much in Yosemite, including a whole new look providing more space for browser tabs and a significant speed boost. Safari’s developers have been focussing on features over the last few years, adding useful tools such as Reading List for offline browsing, and Shared Links for keeping up to date with your favourite sites and tweeted links. In Yosemite Mail gained the ability to annotate pictures and diagrams – a genuinely useful quick tool – while AirDrop takes care of large attachments that some mail providers balk at. Calendar gained the ability for users to input natural language instructions: “Appointment at 2pm next Wednesday with John”, for example.

Calendar for Mac

Calendar is built into OS X and in Yosemite brings with it the ability to type natural language queries in order to create new appointments

Windows 10 brings with it two built-in browsers. There’s Internet Explorer if you’re a masochist, or over the age of 70, although the system defaults to Edge. This was formerly known as Project Spartan, which tells us a lot about its intentions. The hated ActiveX has gone forever, for example, although Microsoft being Microsoft means there’s already a slew of bolted-on features – the ability to annotate web pages, for example, and reading view akin to Safari’s Reading List. Cortana is also built-in.

Microsoft’s new Edge browser promises faster browsing speeds and finally kills off the hated ActiveX

Windows Mail and Calendar are Metro-style apps that do the job but are much more basic than the OS X equivalents. Even the ancient Windows Express looks sophisticated in comparison. However, most people using Windows will arguably be using Outlook. Microsoft Office available for a bargain price to students, for example, while corporate and home office desktops can’t really live without it. If Windows + Office are indeed a pony and trap arrangement then all Microsoft’s really done is made the pony free of charge but continued to charge a hefty subscription fee for the trap in the form of Office 365.
OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Mobile integration

Where Apple has always maintained that two separate operating systems are necessary: one for mobile devices, one for computing, Windows 10 will run on PCs, smartphones, tablets and even Xbox One. There will no longer be a separate version of Windows for phones. The benefit of this strategy is that it means the same apps will be available on all Windows 10 devices.

Of course Apple's philosophy, initially outlined by Steve Jobs prior to that famous quote about not using styluses, is that an operating system that relies on mouse input isn't suitable for use on a mobile phone where the finger or thumb becomes the means of input (if you resort to using a stylus on the phone you have failed).

How is Microsoft addressing this issue? Continuum Mode isn’t Microsoft’s answer to Continuity, it’s Microsoft’s answer to the dilemma of what happens when you disconnect the tablet part of the Surface from its base. The Windows OS will detect the loss of a keyboard or mouse and switch to the tablet (touch) usage modes.

That said, Microsoft is tailoring the OS to devices 8in and above, with a slightly different version for Windows phones and small screen tablets. This 'mobile' version of Windows 10 isn’t a successor to Windows Phone 8, it’s still the same OS as runs on PCs, however there are some tweaks. The mobile version includes the ability to float the keyboard around the screen.

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Internet Browser

The Safari browser gained much in Yosemite, including a whole new look providing more space for browser tabs and a significant speed boost. Safari’s developers have been focussing on features over the last few years, adding useful tools such as Reading List for offline browsing, and Shared Links for keeping up to date with your favourite sites and tweeted links. In Yosemite Mail gained the ability to annotate pictures and diagrams – a genuinely useful quick tool.

What can we say about Internet Explorer that hasn’t already been said? The user interface is still clumsy, with browser tabs crammed into the top right of the screen alongside the address bar. In terms of features it’s straight out of the previous century. Back in 2014 Microsoft was boasting a litany of under-the-hood improvements including HTTP2, but this is like a car manufacturer boasting their engines have new and improved sparkplugs.

However, in the consumer preview we learned more about Microsoft's new Window's 10 browser, code named 'Project Spartan'. Spartan is to be Microsoft’s new web browser, shipping with Windows 10. Built with interoperability in mind, according to Microsoft, Spartan has a new rendering engine that's "compatible with today's web".

It has a new look and feel, and it has three significant features, according to Microsoft. These include a reading mode and the ability to annotate with a keyboard, pen or a finger before you share an article. There's also integration with Cortana, so that when you're on a web page for a restaurant Cortana can make a booking. Spartan lets you create a reading list that shows up on all your devices, this content is then available to read offline, so it won't matter if you have no internet connection. Spartan’s reading mode also supports PDFs natively.

OS X Yosemite vs Windows 10: Mail

Apple's Mail offered new features in Yosemite including Mail Drop, which takes the hassle out of sending large files because Apple looks after the upload and download of files over 5MB so that you don't need to rush off to DropBox or similar in order to send emails without crashing the server, or that of your recipient.

The default (and only) email app on Windows 10 is Mail, a tablet app. This is basic. Forget about creating mail rules, for example. Even the ancient Windows Express looks sophisticated in comparison. Anybody who receives more than a few messages a day will be crying out for the likes of Outlook, which comes as part of Office 365. It’s not cynical to suggest that this is all part of Microsoft’s plan, of course.

Windows Mail is basic and no use for those who receive more than a handful of messages a day
Verdict: Windows 10 versus Yosemite

The bare truth of the matter is that Windows 10 steals the best bits from Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Mac OS X.

Such an approach isn’t guaranteed to work, of course, and could end-up an inelegant mishmash. If Microsoft deserves any kind of praise it’s that, at the end of the day, Windows 10 is a genuinely useful operating system. It really does feel like Microsoft’s got its groove back.

Is there anything that Apple can learn from Windows 10? Aside from integrating Siri, which we suspect Apple is avoiding for fear or being accused of prematurely merging mobile and desktop, the answer has to be a resounding no. Windows 10 just isn’t innovative.

Nor will Windows 10 make any OS X user in their right mind more likely to switch. There’s a whole bunch of reasons why we won’t be using Windows any time soon. Installation is as much of a nightmare as it always has been, for example. Who wants to spend hours trying to track down hardware drivers? Then there’s the fact that Windows 10 still uses NTFS disk technology, more than a decade after both OS X and Linux switched to the more fault-tolerant journalled file systems. If your laptop dies without hibernating, for example, then the use of NTFS means there’s still the risk of lost data, and still a lengthy start-up scan phase to try and repair things. This is despite the fact that Microsoft has ReFS is ready and waiting to be a swap-in.

Then there’s the weird error messages that you only find in Microsoft products, or the usual Microsoft bugs that recently meant an system update (which are now automated by the way) meant that some PCs entered an endless reboot cycle. It’s all incredibly tiresome, especially for those who’ve seen this kind of thing countless times before. Why can’t Microsoft ever just get a grip?

We also have a comparison preview of El Capitan and Windows 10 here
OUR VERDICT

Mac OS X remains so far out in front of Windows in terms of innovation and features that Microsoft may never close the gap. But one thing Microsoft knows well is that Windows only has to be good enough for most users. Forget about elegance. Forget about design. Windows just has to work. And version 10 definitely ticks this box.

Hughe

7th June 2016, 14:18

Avoid Linux distribution that uses systemd as default service manager such as Ubuntu. Unfortunately there are few Linux distributions that provide systemd as an option: Gentoo, Devuan, Slackware.

systemd is maintained, has developed by programmers under coporates' paycheck, notoriously the Red Hat.
It exceeded half million lines of code. systemd developers keep saying it makes Linux user friendly like Windows. Can you believe it?
To me, systemd is a result of corporate take over Linux.

In 2015, Debian adapted systemd blatantly whatever motives behind it. Many hackers and hard-core users left Debian because systemd directly conflicts against FOSS policy. Most Linux users do not aware the potential implication of systemd. I personally run Devuan (Debian without systemd).

The block diagram of systemd components.
https://i2.wp.com/zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/10/05/7aae1747-4ce3-11e4-b6a0-d4ae52e95e57/resize/770x578/4a975803117e2bffc6a1dd3d5d8dba64/systemdcomponents-svg.png

https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2016-June/014964.html

> * systemd-resolved now implements RFC5452 to improve resilience against
> cache poisoning. Additionally, source port randomization is enabled
> by default to further protect against DNS spoofing attacks.

systemd-resolved requires a forwarder. It is not a full DNS recursive
server. So source port randomization is pretty useless as you are most
likely just doing DNS on the local network.

Also, "improve resilience against cache poisoning" is quite the weasel
wording. Especially since it trusts faster answers over slower ones over
different interfaces. The design is still horribly broken.

At devconf, the systemd people described the system to us. Things might
have changed since then and we should verify that. With that, let me
mention what I remember:

- It uses nsswitch to basically take over gethostbyname*() and
getaddrinfo(). This means any software using a DNS library like ldns,
unbound, bind, knot, etc bypasses this system and gets an inconsistent
DNS view from the rest of the system. It explictely does not support
those kind of applications. Due to its issues below, this is a problem
for applications insisting on DNSSEC answers (eg postfix). It does not
supply a "local DNS server" that those dns libraries could use to get
a consistent view.

- it fudges with /etc/resolv.conf, but it does not provide a DNS server.
So it cannot put 127.0.0.1 in resolv.conf. This means ANY application
using /etc/resolv.conf that does not use glibc is going to go around
systemd-resolvd. Yet systemd-resolvd messes with resolv.conf.

- The process turns a request for binary DNS data into into XML, feeds it
into the sytemd/dus ecosystem, which turns it into binary DNS to send
it to the forwarder. The binary DNS answer then gets turned into XML
goes through systemd/dbus, then is turned back into binary DNS to feed
back into glibc. Apart from errors in this process, like last year's
CVE on cache poisoning attacks, this means the systemd people need to
very actively maintain their code whenever a new feature or RRTYPE is
added to the DNS protocol. Maintenance and bugfixes is not systemd's
strong point. This architecture is overly complex and unneccessary.

- It won't work well with applications that have their own DNS code
itside. Such as browsers. This becomes worse when you think about
browsers supporting draft-shore-tls-dnssec-chain-extension.

- It is yet another program/daemon that runs races with other software
in controlling /etc/resolv.conf. Eg VPN software adding nameservers.

- There is no option to become a full recursive DNS server. It depends
on a forwarder being obtained via DHCP. This means any broken
forwarder leads to a broken setup. eg an upstream that strips DNSSEC.

- It accepts DNS forwarders for all its interfaces. That means if you
are on wifi and 3g, or ethernet and wifi, you have more than one
DNS server from logically different networks. With no way of
guaranteeing which logical network you asking.

- It sends out a DNS queries over all its obtained DNS servers all the
time. This means DNS queries for split-DNS view resources leak all
over the internet.

- It accepts the first valid answer. This could be an unsigned answer.
This means a local attacker (eg wifi hotspot) has an advantage over
the actual real DNS forwarders.

- It prefers an answer over an NXDOMAIN as workaround for the above.
So if some A record does not exist, the NXDOMAIN is ignored in
favour of a forged, or rogue wildcard type, answer.

- It does not implement RFC-5011 properly. It might remove trusted keys
upon seeing the revoke bit instead of waiting the time period
specified in RFC-5011.

- I believe it does not support DNS-over-TLS

- I _believe_ it does not support network changes that requre a cache
flush, for instance a VPN network with an internal *.corp.company.com
whose entries need to be removed from the cache when the network is
lost.

- I _believe_ it does not handle trust anchors linked to DNS nameserver
IP addreses. Needed for DHCP servers relaying multiple domain names
for resolving and VPN situations like draft-pauly-ipsecme-split-dns-01

- I _believe_ it will not able to reconfigure forwarders on the fly.

KiwiElf

18th July 2016, 06:44

Just when you thought Microsoft couldn't get more sneaky... (I was almost going to start a new thread on this but probably better to keep it in one place - it just keeps getting worse! These are two related articles - emphasis is mine - KE: ).

Jul 14, 2016 @ 10:30 AM 818,585 views
Microsoft Confirms Windows 10 New Monthly Charge

Gordon Kelly ,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/07/14/microsoft-confirms-windows-10-new-monthly-charge/#7e555b20dfab

Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

For months Microsoft has been describing Windows 10 “as a service” and now we know why. Microsoft is going to introduce a monthly subscription fee for Windows 10 usage…

That cost will be $7 per user per month but the good news is it only applies to enterprises, for now. The new pricing tier will be called “Windows 10 Enterprise E3” and it means Windows has finally joined Office 365 and Azure as a subscription service.

Of course the big question is now: How does this new subscription pricing affect the millions of consumers who upgraded to Windows 10 on the promise of it being free?

The good news is Microsoft has gone on record to say it is not being passed down to consumers at this stage: “This new subscription model is not associated with our current upgrade offering or applicable to the Windows 10 consumer edition,” a Microsoft spokesperson told PC World.

Could Microsoft eventually introduce Windows 10 monthly subscriptions for consumers? Without doubt, but I would be highly sceptical they would apply to anyone who has already upgraded. That said there is likely to be a threshold in future where Microsoft will draw a line in the sand for the ongoing addition of new features without a fee.

Why? Because Microsoft has confirmed on many occasions that Windows 10 is the “last version of Windows” meaning it will be updated on a rolling basis with no Windows 11 to replace it. Consequently there will have to be a cut off point somewhere, sometime – mostly likely when Microsoft feels Windows 10 is at the ‘Windows 11’ stage of development.

At that point I suspect Microsoft may simplify things and just rename it ‘Windows’. Here is when all Windows pricing could become subscription only given even upfront costs would expire at some point and become a messy marketing exercise.

But in the meantime the rush is on for those who still want to upgrade to Windows 10 while it is free. The window for this closes on July 29th and Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro will then cost $119 and $199 respectively for consumers who didn’t upgrade.

Out of interest at the $7 per month enterprise rate, consumers would get 17 and 28 months use out of Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro respectively. This isn’t a great deal for Home users and shows a new consumer-focused pricing tier would likely need to be introduced to make it more appealing should Microsoft go down that path in future.

Until then Windows 10 will remain free a little longer and for millions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 users it is make up your mind time…

Microsoft Warns Windows 7 Has A Serious Problem

Gordon Kelly ,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/05/04/microsoft-warns-windows-7-boot-up-problem/#1fa2b02a395e

Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

Earlier this year Microsoft warned users that Windows 7 has serious problems. I dismissed its claims as a desperate attempt to shift copies of Windows 10 (and I still do), but now Microsoft has warned of a new serious Windows 7 problem that is very real – even though it makes no sense whatsoever…

In short: Microsoft has made a seemingly small yet completely bizarre tweak to Windows Update on Windows 7 and confirmed it is crippling many users’ PCs.

The tweak? It switched the status of Windows 7 update KB3133977 from ‘Optional’ to ‘Recommended’. The bizarre part? Despite acknowledging the problems, Microsoft knew they would occur in advance and it has no plans to do anything about it.
Windows 7 users are being pushed to upgrade to Windows 10. Image credit: Gordon Kelly

Ok, let’s put some meat on these bones.

PCs That Suddenly Won’t Start

It all centres around Asus motherboards.

Now 27 years old, Asus is one of the largest PC component makers and supplies motherboards to many of the world’s biggest PC makers. Recently it enabled Secure Boot in UEFI on all its motherboards. This wasn’t a problem for older PCs because Windows 7 didn’t support Secure Boot, that is until KB3133977 came along in March and enabled it.

Initially the fallout was small. Asus confirmed the problem, Microsoft confirmed the problem. But the best news was KB3133977 was an optional Windows 7 update so it had to be manually installed to take effect. The solution was simple: just steer clear of KB3133977 (aka do nothing) and you’d be fine.

Then last month – for some bizarre reason – Microsoft made KB3133977 a ‘Recommended’ update. The result was every user running Windows 7 and default Windows Update settings (the vast majority) would find the update now installed automatically.

And then everyone with an Asus motherboard was hit.

A Global Problem

As InfoWorld’s Windows expert Woody Leonhard notes “I’m now seeing problems reported from all over the globe about Windows 7 machines that suddenly won’t boot”. Affected machines simply show a red box which says:

All of which does nothing to pinpoint the problem or solve it for those without a second secured boot device. In short: you’d be screwed.

The Good News And Staying Safe

The good news is Asus has now issued a workaround to get PCs booting up again. Furthermore Asus must take some of the blame for not reacting faster when KB3133977 presented a potential landmine and issuing new updates to its motherboards.

How do you know if you have an Asus motherboard in your Windows 7 PC? Go to: All Programs > Accessories > System Tools and select System Information. This will list your PC’s components, including the motherboard.

One downside: some major PC makers like Dell and HP rebrand the motherboard as the computer’s model number. In which case you should do a web search on your model or call the manufacturer directly.

The Bad News And What Comes Next

As for the bad news? It’s Microsoft’s reaction.

On the plus side, Microsoft did update the support document for KB3133977 with a warning which states: “After you install update 3133977 on a Windows 7 x64-based system that includes an Asus-based main board, the system does not start”.

But Microsoft also uses the document an opportunity to promote upgrades to Windows 10:

Microsoft has also done nothing to modify KB3133977 or release a new patch so users with Asus motherboards don’t run into this problem in the first place. Furthermore, at the time of publishing, KB3133977 remains a ‘Recommended’ in Windows Update for Windows 7.

Needless to say, conspiracy theorists will have a ball seeing it as yet another new way Microsoft can push users to Windows 10. Especially with upgrade rates slowing in April. This in itself is remarkable given the increasing number of heavy handed and devious ways Microsoft has been pushing Windows 10 onto Windows 7 and Windows 8 users.

Regardless, the message is clear: life is going to become increasingly uncomfortable for Windows 7 users from now on. Whether they like it or not…

petra

21st July 2016, 22:17

This post is making me want to kill myself :P

DeDukshyn

21st July 2016, 22:59

... trim ...

For months Microsoft has been describing Windows 10 “as a service” and now we know why. Microsoft is going to introduce a monthly subscription fee for Windows 10 usage…

That cost will be $7 per user per month but the good news is it only applies to enterprises, for now. The new pricing tier will be called “Windows 10 Enterprise E3” and it means Windows has finally joined Office 365 and Azure as a subscription service.

Of course the big question is now: How does this new subscription pricing affect the millions of consumers who upgraded to Windows 10 on the promise of it being free?

... trim …

I can understand this move (although I hate M$ - not really defending them, just defending some logic). Previous (I'm thinking NT / XP days) "Enterprise Editions" of windows were priced according to approximate number of users. If a corporation had 1000 users the would pay a flat fee - maybe $50,000 or something, and you would get a single copy for deployment throught the corporation. The issue back then was that "enterprise editions" required no activation even. You just paid for it, and it would be deployed, and it worked.

However, because there was no activation, anyone could install this edition. I had a friend once give me a copied disc of an enterprise version of windows once. I just installed it, and it worked. All updates - everything - nothing compromised at all.

So I can see this approach potentially being hugely abused especially in countries where laws are a little more lax -- someone gets a hold of one of these copies, sells them for 10 or 20 bucks a piece, and he has a new wonderful source of income.

A way to address this issue would be to charge monthly, per user, to the enterprise.

I doubt you'll see that happening anytime soon for the consumer copies, but if windows is having issues with piracy with the consumer versions, it will likely be coming at some point.

The whole reason that Adobe has moved to cloud based monthly subscription for their Creative Suite software was to combat piracy of their products. (dear Adobe and M$, we know how much it costs to create a copy of a program and put it on a disc ... about $1 ... we also know that your software is hundreds or thousands of dollars --- we wouldn't be trying to rip you off, if you hadn't started trying to rip us off. You started it. Own up)

chancy

4th August 2016, 23:37

Hello Everyone:
Yes, this topic has been on alot but now there's an anniversary windows 10 version that will update everyones computer it appears regardless of saying yes or no to the download. The download will take place this week according to the article.
chancy

Link:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/david-pogue-windows-10-anniversary-000000025.html

Article:
What to expect when the Windows 10 Anniversary Update installs itself on your computer
David Pogue – Tue, 2 Aug, 2016 3:33 PM EDT
Nobody ever accused Microsoft (MSFT) of having consistent naming sequences. Let’s see: Windows versions have been named, in order, 1, 2, 3, 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 10.
And today, there’s a new version: Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Why use three syllables when 10 will do?
Windows 10 was already very good. Beautiful, fast, coherent,and compatible with those 4 million Windows apps the world depends on. What Windows 10 AU offers, though, is mostly catchup and refinement. It’s a bunch of features that follow in Google’s and Apple’s footsteps (haters, relax — yes, we know those companies have also stolen from Microsoft), and a lot of fleshing-out of features thatwere bare-boned in the original Windows 10.
Since Windows 10 AU is free, and since every copy of Windows 10 will soon begin auto-installing the update, you may as well know what you’re getting into. Here’s a quick rundown of what you have to look forward to.
Edge browser
Microsoft’s speedy but stripped-down new web browser, Edge, has finally started to fill in its bald spots. The big news is that it can now accept extensions — feature plug-ins from other companies — just like Firefox, Chrome, and Safari can. There aren’t many so far, but the essentials — ad blockers, password memorizers and so on — are already available.
Edge can now pass along notifications (they appear with your other notifications, in the Action Center) from websites that offer them.
You can now pin a tab in Edge (shrink it to an icon that’s anchored at the left end of the tab bar), so that you can’t close it accidentally.
Finally, Edge uses up a lot less battery power than its rivals, according to Microsoft.
Log in with your face
Already, on Microsoft tablets and laptops, you can teach the special camera (an Intel RealSense camera) to recognize you, and log you in with your face. Yes, you can unlock your tablet or laptop just by looking at it — fast, clean, foolproof. (Literally. No photo, sculpture of your head, or even twin can fool this feature.)
That face recognition, along with fingerprint recognition on appropriately equipped laptops, is part of a feature called Windows Hello — and now, Microsoft says, apps and websites can use it, too. Someday soon, you could, in theory, log into your email or bank site just by looking at it.
If it catches on, that will be a huge feature. No more passwords, no more stupid Captcha puzzles to solve. You, and only you, can log in. (Your face or fingerprint is stored only on your machine, and never transmitted.)
If you were kind enough to buy a Microsoft tablet or touchscreen laptop, the company wishes to thank you by bringing you a wagon full of gifts.
You know the pen that came with your recent Surface tablet? You can now program the clicker on the top to do some cool stuff — like opening the new Ink Workspace, a collection of pen-friendly apps like Stickies, Sketchpad (for freeform drawing, featuring a virtual ruler you can use as a straightedge), Screen Annotation (lets you draw on a screenshot), and OneNote. (There’s a taskbar icon that opens this Workspace, too.
The new Stickies app recognizes handwritten phone numbers, stock symbols, times, and web addresses (they turn blue once recognized), and offers to dial, look up, create reminders for, or open them when you tap them. That’s neat.
The best part of all of this: You can set up the pen-clicker thing to bring up the Ink Workspace even before you’ve logged in — at the Lock screen. Finally, a tablet is as useful as a legal pad. You’re suddenly getting the phone number of somebody attractive? Click your pen and start writing it down, without first logging in like some kind of painful nerd.(All of this, Microsoft says, may also work with other companies’ Bluetooth pens.)
The Start menu
Microsoft continues to tinker with the Start menu, the all-knowing oracle that gives you access to everything useful on your PC. Now, the All Programs button is gone; instead, the left side of the Start menu is your All Programs list. (The File, Settings, Power and account buttons are now tiny icons at the even farther left of the menu).
This change makes screaming sense. Every OS includes both a master list of apps and a customizable subset of the ones you use most often — think of the Home screens in Android, or the Dock on the Mac. In Windows 10, the fly-out tiles are your custom subset; the left-hand column should display the master list. You’ll fall in love with this feature fast.Too bad you can’t type-select an app’s name once the list is open, though. (You can type-select only before you’ve opened the Start menu, using the Search box.)
Cortana upgraded
Cortana still isn’t as smart as Siri or Google Now (here’s my comparison). But it’s getting steadily better. In AU, you can speak reminders that aren’t associated with a particular time or place (“Remember that my Delta frequent flyer is …”), and even add photos to them.
Apps and web pages can be programmed to add reminders directly to your list, too. For example, you can save a Map directly into Cortana’s reminder list.

Better yet, you can use certain Cortana commands at the lock screen — before you’ve even logged in. You can ask her about the news, stocks, or weather, for example, or ask her to tell you a joke. None of this is personal information, so none of it requires signing in.
Taskbar updates
If you click the clock, you now get a pop-up mini-calendar; click a number to see your appointments for that day. And if you click the volume icon, you can switch playback sources — from speakers to headphones, for example.
“Badges” can now appear on app icons, too, just as on the Mac or the iPhone, showing you (for example) how many new messages or emails have come in.Finally, the Action Center (notification list) at the right side has been redesigned— it has its own icon to the right of the clock, which sprouts a number to show you how many notifications have piled up — and so has its corresponding Settings screen.
Phone-PC communication
Apple may have introduced the world to the marvels of using your computer to send and receive calls and texts, using your smartphone as a cellular antenna. But in Windows 10 AU, Microsoft has its own version.
The idea is that if you have an Android phone with the Cortana app (or if you’re among the six people with Windows phones), all of its notifications and even low-battery alerts can now appear on your Windows desktop, as pop-up alerts. It’s pretty crude — still in beta — and making it work involves crawling through a bunch of settings on both machines. And, of course, it’s not as slick as Apple’s; for example, you can’t use your laptop or tablet as a speakerphone, as you can on Macs and iPads. But this is a start.
Lots of misc.
Windows 10 AU reserves more slots (10 instead of 5) for ads
among your Start-menu tiles (though you can remove them).
Your email address no longer appears on the Lock screen.
You can four-finger swipe between virtual desktops.
You can now use both Microsoft’s free antivirus program
(Windows Defender) and one that
you’ve bought. Defender acts like a second opinion.
New emoji symbols, including bacon and various skin shades.
Lots of the basic starter apps have sprouted new refinements
of their own.

Get it?

Windows 10 AU will probably install itself onto your Windows 10 machine this week, or soon; only the subtle Start menu and taskbar changes will alert you that something has changed.

Fortunately, there’s very little to dislike in the Anniversary Update. There are very few changes that make you slap your forehead and say, “Why did they DO that?!”

According to the company, 350 million people are already happily using Windows 10. And with the Anniversary Update, most of them will be even happier.

David Pogue is the founder of Yahoo Tech; here’s how to get his columns by email. On the Web, he’s davidpogue.com. On Twitter, he’s @pogue. On email, he’s poguester@yahoo.com

TigaHawk

4th August 2016, 23:47

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

Download and install GWX Control panel.

Prevent that turd from installing on your PC before it's too late.

ThePythonicCow

5th August 2016, 02:26

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

Download and install GWX Control panel.

Prevent that turd from installing on your PC before it's too late.
According to what Microsoft says, the aggressive push to upgrade existing Windows 7 and 8.x systems to Windows 10 ended on 29 July 2016.

KiwiElf

5th August 2016, 06:10

Hahahah

According to the company, 350 million people are already happily using Windows 10. And with the Anniversary Update, most of them will be even happier.

Riiiiiight - it was forced down their throat. Might be the accurate number downloaded - but... Happy???? (and I bet they interviewed every one of those 350 million users... NOT! ) :whistle:

ThePythonicCow

5th August 2016, 19:06

Hahahah

According to the company, 350 million people are already happily using Windows 10. And with the Anniversary Update, most of them will be even happier.
I'm one of those 350 million, who installed Windows 10. I'm rarely an active Windows user, and never a happy one :).

A couple of weeks ago, I copied my existing Windows 7 installation to a cheap, old SSD drive that I had on hand, and upgraded that copy to Windows 10, in order to get the free upgrade. I then removed that Windows 10 SSD and restored the Windows 7 drive to that PC. For the forseeable future, I will continue to use Windows 7 when I need to use Windows. But if I do ever have to use Windows 10, I can swap the drives and boot a registered Windows 10 installation. This should work so long as that PC keeps its same motherboard and CPU, off that particular drive ... if I start changing hardware, the Windows 10 registration will become invalid after some point that the Windows licensing software decides I no longer have the same PC.

Fanna

5th August 2016, 20:16

norman

5th August 2016, 21:04

If anyone would like a tutorial on how to put your computer on Linux while retaining access to all the programs you need through Windows Emulation and open source alternatives, please send me a message. I would be more than happy to wipe more Windows machines off the map and free computers to do the wonderful work they were meant to do.

I'm trapped in Windows ( XP, actually ) because of the applications I use a lot ( mostly audio ). I'd like to really know how things pan out regarding getting the maximum speed out of old 32 bit and single thread assembled ( PC x86 ) machine code, while running in emulation mode on modern 64bit multi-threaded systems.

Until someone convinces me otherwise, my hunch is that performance is probably limited to the speed of a single core of however many the CPU has. With multicore technology driving average CPU speeds down again, that's potentially a step backwards for me.

Am I wrong?

ThePythonicCow

5th August 2016, 21:14

Fanna

5th August 2016, 21:25

I'm trapped in Windows ( XP, actually ) because of the applications I use a lot ( mostly audio ). I'd like to really know how things pan out regarding getting the maximum speed out of old 32 bit and singe thread assembled ( PC ) machine code, while running in emulation mode on modern 64bit multi-threaded systems.

Until someone convinces me otherwise, my hunch is that performance is probably limited to the speed of a singe core of however many the CPU has. With multicore technology driving average CPU speeds down again, that's potentially a step backwards for me.

Am I wrong?

Efficiency is the key word. Windows has always been a bit ... heavy. Cut it down to what works and older machines will fly as fast as new ones with the heavy load they carry. It doesnt take a jet engine to fly a smaller craft. I can even teach you how to turn old powerbook macs without intel chips over to the modern world.

My machine is an old dual core lenovo I picked up from a company upgrading their computers and throwing out their old ones. Photoshop, 3d modeling, browsing, games, office, audio programs for the guitarist in my life, all of it can be open source if we remember what the word Ubuntu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(philosophy)) really means.

Fanna

5th August 2016, 21:30

Running the better audio apps is one of the reasons that I run Windows. I would not expect some major audio apps to work consistently well on Linux, whether native Linux ports, or within a Windows emulator. Linux has struggled with audio for years, and emulators add another layer of difficulty to the problem.

Ubuntu Studio (http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/) isnt an end all for audiophiles, but it is certainly a start that can be modified to fit the needs of an individual. Remember, it isnt about the program you use, it is about what you create with it.

Johnny

5th August 2016, 21:33

norman

5th August 2016, 21:43

Johnny

5th August 2016, 21:46

Ubuntu Studio (http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/) isnt an end all for audiophiles, but it is certainly a start that can be modified to fit the needs of an individual. Remember, it isnt about the program you use, it is about what you create with it.

Never heard about UBUNTU Studio before, it looks interesting. Thanks for that.

Johnny :)

Ewan

5th September 2016, 18:28

Bill Ryan

20th September 2016, 12:57

.
Here's a consumer report from a diehard Mac User. :)

I have never liked Windows. But recently, when both my Macs died, and rather painted into a corner, I found myself obliged to revert to Windows for a few weeks on an old, broken-screen machine while optimum solutions were on the way (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92928-In-Search-of-an-Apple-MacBook-Pro-that-runs-Snow-Leopard-For-Bill-Ryan).

An engineer I gave the machine to for a short while 'helpfully' updated it to Windows 10 (OMG :facepalm: ) and having read this thread before, I was disconcerted.

But, to my surprise, it was a very Mac-like experience. In fact (sacrilege here!) there were one or two features that I found even more user-friendly than the Mac. Steve Jobs' vision for high user-friendliness is clearly industry-infectious. He set the bar pretty high, and Bill Gates had to raise his game.

But -- and this is what this thread is about, a BIG but -- the OS was clearly communicating with Microsoft all the time.

24/7, whether I liked it or not. It was reporting back about big things and little things, and there was nothing I could do to stop it except disconnect from the net. Even if I powered it down frequently, it'd just do its thing as soon as I turned it on again.

If I was doing sensitive work (Ha!), I'd not trust it at all. It seemed to know exactly what I was doing, all the time, and was continuously offering to help, like an over-enthusiastic Jeeves.

An interesting experience... but now I'm back on Mac again, and I do feel much more secure.

Ron Mauer Sr

20th September 2016, 14:19

.
Here's a consumer report from a diehard Mac User. :)

I have never liked Windows. But recently, when both my Macs died, and rather painted into a corner, I found myself obliged to revert to Windows for a few weeks on an old, broken-screen machine while optimum solutions were on the way (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92928-In-Search-of-an-Apple-MacBook-Pro-that-runs-Snow-Leopard-For-Bill-Ryan).

An engineer I gave the machine to for a short while 'helpfully' updated it to Windows 10 (OMG :facepalm: ) and having read this thread before, I was disconcerted.

But, to my surprise, it was a very Mac-like experience. In fact (sacrilege here!) there were one or two features that I found even more user-friendly than the Mac. Steve Jobs' vision for high user-friendliness is clearly industry-infectious. He set the bar pretty high, and Bill Gates had to raise his game.

But -- and this is what this thread is about, a BIG but -- the OS was clearly communicating with Microsoft all the time.

24/7, whether I liked it or not. It was reporting back about big things and little things, and there was nothing I could do to stop it except disconnect from the net. Even if I powered it down frequently, it'd just do its thing as soon as I turned it on again. <snip>

There must be some smart programmers out there who could write software to monitor and control (if needed) both incoming and outgoing data. Sure it would take some overhead but it might be worth it.

Where are the bright programmers who can save us from Windows10?

I wonder if Linux is a better choice than Win10. A MAC may be more secure but they are a bit pricey.

ThePythonicCow

20th September 2016, 17:40

I wonder if Linux is a better choice than Win10.
I made a valiant effort to convert Bill to Linux during his latest computer complications ... but failed :).

Linux is totally better than Windows 10 - yes - though it is not without its drama.

I've spent the last 5 or 10 days rebuilding my main system without SystemD (http://systemd-free.org/). SystemD embodies the "Window-fication" of Linux. It has been adopted by (or imposed on) all the major Linux distributions. The date of 11 Feb 2014 is a date that shall live in infamy, when Bdale Garbee cast the deciding vote to convert Debian to SystemD (https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00405.html).

I'm now running Arch Manjaro OpenRC (https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=OpenRC,_an_alternative_to_systemd) (and a fair sized helping of software I wrote myself.) I don't know whether or not this approach would be suitable for someone without the deep experience I have in such software.

We've seen things like this happen before in technology. In the days of my grandfather, it was expected that a car owner would do most of their own maintenance, or have a trusted friend or family member do it. Cars were simple, at least for the mechanically inclined. Nowadays, that's impossible for most of us, and only those of us driving 10 or 20 year old "simpler" cars can still be reasonably confident that their car can't easily be tracked and controlled at the whim of sufficiently technically capable "adversaries" (which includes the minions of the Elite Bastards.)

Or perhaps a better analogy - radio (including more recently TV and cable). It would have been difficult to imagine, back in the early days of radio that the day would come when 99.99% of all "radio" users (broadcast or mass media or social media or cell phones) no longer have the means or ability to commuicate with their fellow human beings, outside of the deep control and surveillance of the minions of the Elite Bastards. Only a few old codger ham radio operators and the like stand a chance, and they could all easily be turned into grease spots, by drones or such, as soon as they turned their transmitters on.

"Transmitting" over the Internet is much the same. Only a few old geeks such as myself have much ability to track, control, and exchange IP packets over the Internet, outside of the officially blessed or tolerated means, and we too could be identified and taken out or shut down, at the whims of those minions.

As to tracking what Windows 10 tracks, by monitoring the network traffic ... the multiple layers of encryption and obfuscation and complexity, buried in a monstrous pile of baroque (and broken) software, makes that essentially impossible for all but those "state actors" with sufficient resources to hack into Microsoft's source repositories and to invest the substantial effort it would take to make useful sense of what's there.

DeDukshyn

20th September 2016, 20:16

The Applications substitution issues are 2 pronged.

There's the Drivers and all things under the bonnet that have to behave the same. Then there's the "Front End".

Decent productivity depends entirely on a good interface between the human and the machine. While there are certain obvious design functions that are universal, there are enormous amounts of fiddly things that have to be learned and become automatic-ish for the person. And, there's the hands on comfort and simplicity, for e.g. a quick right click and drag instead of opening a menu or worse.

"Audacity" is a very capable audio editor, so I'm always told, but it's interface is either not thought out like my brain works, or is just stupid. I've installed it 4 or 5 times over the years, just to see how it's been coming along ( as an open source project ). I've never been inclined to stick with it though, always preferring my Cooledit Pro 2, by a long mile.

I was just about to say "Find an old copy of cool edit pro" as I was reading about your audacity "incompatibilies" :). I also have issues with using audacity. I now use Adobe Audition, which is "Cool Edit Pro" after Adobe bought it from the original author. It sucks that they charge what they do for it now, but it's nice to have a very familiar interface from way back - adobe has altered it a fair bit over the years, but mostly for the better and the interface has stayed pretty much the same -- I used to use cool edit Pro ~20 years ago. :)

Anyway, just a sidebit ... back to topic.

Blacklight43

21st September 2016, 21:24

Johnny

22nd September 2016, 11:31

Microsoft is adding the Linux command line to Windows 10, and they need help :ROFL:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11331014/microsoft-windows-linux-ubuntu-bash

:focus:

Johnny :)

KiwiElf

23rd September 2016, 00:07

I'm a new convert! Just made the leap from bill gates and his crap to an I-Mac! Now the learning process begins again. I have been using pc's and windows products and HP and various machines (6) since early 2000. Figured with all I have spent on machines and repairs I would have been money ahead to have gone with Apple in the first place. So I've made the switch and hopefully won't have to buy a new machine again. At my age I'm looking for this to be my last purchase.!!! Windows 10 was put on my machine over my objections and I hate it! Can't use my optic drive now. Since I have to buy an external I'll do it for the IMac.

Thanks for letting me vent!!!

Welcome to the club :) (& what should be a more pleasant and economical experience). As noted earlier, my Mac has outlasted 3 x PCs. When you add the cost of those 3 machines plus the wasted time of reinstalling everything 3 x, the Mac's "pricey" (sorry Ron ;)) initially more expensive cost is worth it. Ford or Porsche? (Buy the Porsche!) ;)

Also, running Bootcamp, you are effectively getting a Mac OS & Windows OS (pre Windows 10) in ONE box. All you need to do is run Bootcamp & install Windows 7-8 on a partition on your Mac. - Of coz, once installed, turn Windows Update OFF! :)

ThePythonicCow

2nd October 2016, 20:58

I've spent the last 5 or 10 days rebuilding my main system without SystemD (http://systemd-free.org/). SystemD embodies the "Window-fication" of Linux. It has been adopted by (or imposed on) all the major Linux distributions. The date of 11 Feb 2014 is a date that shall live in infamy, when Bdale Garbee cast the deciding vote to convert Debian to SystemD (https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00405.html).

I'm now running Arch Manjaro OpenRC (https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=OpenRC,_an_alternative_to_systemd) (and a fair sized helping of software I wrote myself.)
I continue to run Arch Manjaro OpenRC (https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=OpenRC,_an_alternative_to_systemd), and continue to be quite pleased with it.

My decision to get rid of SystemD is reconfirmed by this report, of a trivial bug (trivial code error, and trivial to cause) that has been in SystemD for two years now, that allows any running code, by any user, to easily crash the master process PID == 1: How to Crash Systemd (https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet).

As this article states:

Systemd's problems run far deeper than this one bug. Systemd is defective by design. Writing bug-free software is extremely difficult. Even good programmers would inevitably introduce bugs into a project of the scale and complexity of systemd. However, good programmers recognize the difficulty of writing bug-free software and understand the importance of designing software in a way that minimizes the likelihood of bugs or at least reduces their impact. The systemd developers understand none of this, opting to cram an enormous amount of unnecessary complexity into PID 1, which runs as root and is written in a memory-unsafe language.

Hervé

5th October 2016, 16:46

Anyway, for those of us using Windows and wanting to prevent it from calling home with all of one's specifics; there is an additional tool which can be used and provided by Spybot/Safer-Networking (https://www.safer-networking.org/dl/) (bottom of page):

Spybot Anti-Beacon (https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/) our tool to disable telemetry options in Windows.To add to the "GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/11/gwx-control-panel-troubleshooting-guide.html)" and "Never 10 (https://www.grc.com/never10.htm)" tools.

PS: Revisiting Steve Gibson's site, there is this notice:

NOTICE!! New Windows OPTIONAL Update REMOVES the GWX Crapware! (KB3184143)
Microsoft as released an OPTIONAL (you must enable it in Windows Update,
or obtain it from their website). This removes all of the GWX (Get Windows
10) nonsense from PCs. HERE IS THE MICROSOFT LINK TO THE UPDATE (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3184143).

Hervé

14th November 2016, 18:48

Kaspersky attacks Microsoft as anti-competitive (https://www.rt.com/business/366851-kaspersky-accuses-microsoft-anticompetitive-bundle/)

Published time: 14 Nov, 2016 10:56
Edited time: 14 Nov, 2016 14:23
Get short URL (http://on.rt.com/7v2b)

https://img.rt.com/files/2016.11/original/58299593c36188b45f8b4595.jpg
Eugene Kaspersky, CEO of Kaspersky lab © Vladimir Trefilov / Sputnik

The founder of cybersecurity firm Kaspersky Lab has accused US software giant Microsoft of making it unfairly difficult for antivirus companies to complete following a Windows 10 update.

“Microsoft has created obstacles to third-party products and is acting against the interests of the antivirus developers,” company CEO Eugene Kaspersky wrote in a blog post entitled Enough is enough (http://e-kaspersky.livejournal.com/#post-e_kaspersky-351430).

Microsoft has reportedly reduced the period for independent developers to adapt their antivirus software to the Windows 10 operating system to just six days, compared with two months for earlier versions.

Russia's Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) opened an investigation into Microsoft after Kaspersky filed a complaint.

“As Microsoft is the firm developing Windows Defender antivirus software, which plugs in automatically, if third-party software fails to adapt to Windows 10 in due time, these actions are leading to unreasonable advantages for the company in the software market,” said Deputy Head of FAS Anatoly Golomolzin.

Kaspersky Lab is also planning to file complaints against Microsoft in the EU for being anti-competitive, according to company representative Julia Ilyina.

Kaspersky claims to have spent “months of fruitless discussions and multiple exhausting attempts to resolve the issue directly with Microsoft.”

“The trend is clear: Microsoft is gradually squeezing independent developers out of the Windows ecosystem if it has its own application for this or that purpose,” Kaspersky wrote.

Related:
Russia's Kaspersky Lab, Intel & Europol take on ransomware (https://www.rt.com/business/353335-intel-kaspersky-europol-ransomware/)

Hervé

21st February 2017, 18:21

Windows 10 Devices Continue to 'Collect Everything You Do, Say and Write' (https://sputniknews.com/science/201702211050916456-windows-10-privacy-breach/)

Sputnik Tech (https://sputniknews.com/science/)20:19 21.02.2017

https://cdn2.img.sputniknews.com/images/105091/66/1050916638.jpg
© Photo: Pixabay

European Union data protection authorities have expressed fresh concerns about the privacy of Microsoft's Windows 10 operating system, despite tweaks being made to the OS after questions were raised about its treatment of personal data last year.

In a letter (http://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/just/item-detail.cfm?item_id=50083), the Article 29 Working Group said it still has "significant concerns" about how Microsoft collects and processes users' personal data, and whether it obtains fully informed consent from users to do so.

"There is an apparent lack of control for users to prevent collection or further processing of such data. As a result, the Working Party specifically requests further explanatory information from Microsoft, as to how the opt-outs, default settings and other available control mechanisms presented during the installation of Windows 10 operating system provide a valid legal basis for the processing of personal data under the Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31995L0046:en:HTML). This is especially of concern where Microsoft would rely on consent as a legal basis for the processing of personal data," the statement said.

Windows 10 launched in July 2015, and almost immediately (https://sputniknews.com/society/201508131025720992/) garnered criticism for the use of default settings to harvest voluminous amounts of user data, such as web browsing history, WIFI network names and passwords, in order to display personalized adverts as users browse the web or play games. User data is also fed in to train Microsoft's Cortana digital assistant.

While users were given the ability to opt-out of data collection (https://sputniknews.com/us/201507311025283047/), the process for doing so was criticized for being complex and opaque, comprising 45 pages of privacy policy documents, with opt-out settings spread across 13 different screens and housed on an external website.

In response, the Article 29 Working Party instigated an investigation, as did several national data protection authorities, including France's CNIL. Their independent conclusions were much the same; the company must stop excessive data collection.

Among the breaches CNIL accused Microsoft (https://www.cnil.fr/fr/windows-10-la-cnil-met-publiquement-en-demeure-microsoft-corporation-de-se-conformer-dans-un-delai) of were failing to obtain notice for data transfers, breaking cookie law requirements, having inadequate security protections for personal data, failure to file an authorization request for processing personal data for fraud prevention purposes, and breach of cross-border data transfer restrictions.

CNIL set a deadline of January 31 for Microsoft to comply with their recommendations, although the Working Group's warning suggests the tech giant is yet to fulfil their obligations, meaning it can be fined. In all, Microsoft could face fines of up to US$3.2 million for breaches of domestic privacy laws.

The EU General Data Protection Regulation (https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/data-protection-reform/overview-of-the-gdpr/), due to come into force May 2018, increases the potential penalties for companies breaching EU data protection law, with fines of up to four percent of annual turnover for enterprises found to be non-compliant.

The issue of informed consent in respect of data sharing has also seen Facebook and WhatsApp (https://sputniknews.com/europe/201612211048842257-eu-facebook-charges-whatsapp/) fall foul of European regulators; the companies were forced to suspend data sharing after making a change to WhatsApp's privacy policy that pushed users to consent to sharing information such as their mobile phone number with the messaging app's parent company.

In a statement (https://sputniknews.com/science/201702211050916456-windows-10-privacy-breach/...one%20can%20say%20that%20Microsoft%20basically%20grants%20itself%20very%20broad%20rights%20to%20c ollect%20everything%20you%20do,%20say%20and%20write%20with%20and%20on%20your%20devices%20in%20order% 20to%20sell%20more%20targeted%20advertising%20or%20to%20sell%20your%20data%20to%20third%20parties.%2 0The%20company%20appears%20to%20be%20granting), European Digital Rights said Microsoft "grants itself very broad rights to collect everything you do, say and write" on Windows 10-equipped devices in order to sell more targeted advertising or to sell your data to third parties.

"The company appears to be granting itself the right to share your data either with your consent "or as necessary." Microsoft's updated privacy policy is not only bad news for privacy. Your free speech rights can also be violated on an ad hoc basis," the statement said.

Hervé

24th March 2017, 22:01

Windows 10 has been logging everything you type — here's how to stop it (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/windows-10-logging-type-stop/)

Claire Bernish The Free Thought project (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/windows-10-logging-type-stop/)
Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:31 UTC

https://www.sott.net/image/s19/385845/large/windows10.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s19/385845/full/windows10.jpg)
© The Free Thought Project

According to a startling new report, if you use Windows 10, every, single keystroke you've ever entered on your computer has been logged.

If that weren't alarming enough to the privacy-minded among us, all of that information is being sent directly to Microsoft.

All of which begs the question, is this why Microsoft was so insistent its users download Windows 10 as soon as it became available?

"You know those nagging questions during the installation process that ask you whether or not you want to 'help' improve Windows by sending data to Microsoft? If you happened to answer 'yes' to one of these questions, or if you went with the Microsoft default installation, there is a real possibility that everything you have done on your computer from the get-go, including sending 'secure' messages (because the keyboard logger captures your keystrokes before they appear in your secure messaging app), is now a part of a massive user database somewhere," reports (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/security-alert-windows-10-has-been-quietly-logging-every-keystroke-you-type-and-sending-it-to-microsoft-this-is-how-to-stop-it_03232017) SHTFPlan.com.

"It's been reported that Microsoft has been using the data to improve artificial intelligence writing and grammar software, but it's not clear what else they are doing with it."

Unlike recent headlines of security breaches, hacks, and compromised database information, this rather contentious little issue has a few rather simple solutions.

If you have yet to upgrade to Windows 10, you're in luck — just select "custom install" and make sure to check "no" for each of the questions asked about sending information out to Microsoft or any third party.

"To find out whether everything you type is being logged, SHTFPlan notes,

Simply click on your Windows 10 Start Menu. From there, go to Settings (or the gear icon) -> Privacy -> General.

You'll want to turn off the option that says, 'Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future.'

International Business Times explains (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/windows-10-keylogger-how-stop-microsoft-tracking-everything-you-type-1613157) what to do if you've already upgraded:

If you have Windows 10 installed, then you need to go to the Start menu and then select Settings > Privacy > General. Turn off the option that reads, 'Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future'. To be safe, restart your computer after selecting this option.

For those with technical knowledge, there are additional steps you can take to eradicate the gossip line between your computer and Microsoft — but they come with the caveat the methods have been discovered by the Windows 10 users community, so they cannot be guaranteed to be safe or effective.

Windows Update MiniTool

"The Windows Update MiniTool freeware by MajorGeeks allows users to check for Windows Updates and see a description of what they do. You can decide whether you want to install the available updates, hide the ones you don't like and even delete updates that have been installed that you disagree with," IBT explains.

This software explains software updates simply and makes an uninstall easy if necessary.

Reduce Updates

By reducing the number of extraneous updates Microsoft sends your computer — keeping vital security patches and the like — users with low bandwidth have an option.

"To do this, go to the Start menu and then select Settings > Network & Internet > Wi-Fi. In Wi-Fi, click 'Advanced Options' and then select 'on' for the option 'Set as metered connection'."

Turn Off All Updates

Although this method is not at all advised and thus must be done at your own risk, "Go to the Start menu and type 'Run' in the search field. Click on the program, type 'services.msc' and then click 'OK'. Look in the list of services, find the 'Windows Update' listing and double-click on it. Click on the drop down menu for 'Startup type' and select 'Disabled', then click OK to confirm and restart your computer."

While these fixes might take Microsoft's nose out of your business, keep in mind we have recently become privy to the CIA's egregiously invasive spying program — a mirror twin of the already-dubious NSA domestic spy dragnet and more.

norman

25th March 2017, 02:35

I've heard of people switching things off in Win 10 and then finding that they are switched back on again after updates.

I've fallen out with windows post WinXP. I cannot work with a system that bosses me around and denies me access to folders I've created myself, even, to organise work files.

Before anyone says 'get a Mac', I tried one briefly, a macbook, and got very close to throwing the thing at the wall.

I've been using computers since MS DOS and have always expected them to be bit crunching tools that I can have complete control over, not a like-it-or-lump-it service access point that I don't even want to subscribe to.

I recently found out about a project that's trying to create an open source windows XP replacement. I saw a youtube vid of someone trying it out but he was having lots of problems with it. I hope they get it sorted. That could be perfect for me.

I've only ever heard one really good thing about Windows 10. Isn't that a terrible state of affairs ? They've completely redone the audio handling engine in Win 10 to make it handle hi-res audio correctly. I've no idea if Mac got there first, but that makes no difference to me anyway, I won't be using either in the foreseeable future, which most likely really means in this lifetime.

BlueMoon

2nd September 2017, 11:25

Synopsis: A rundown of the things people agree to by installing windows 10, which includes:
-Keyloggers sending every keystroke you do to Microsoft and Inherently the Shadow Govt
-Microphone records anything it can hear, and sends it to Microsoft

I just wanted to add something about the microphone part. I don't know if the computer sends the recordings to Microsoft, what I do know is, that there is a microphone, not listed in the Windows 10 "recording devices" settings, recording all the time.
First time I noticed this was a few months ago when I was recording some music. I pressed the record button and even though I later discovered there was no microphone plugged in, my DAW still recorded some signal, very very silent. I had no idea where the microphone that's picking up the signal would be. I still don't know, maybe someone can help.

Posting some images for better understanding whats going on. For musicians/producers out there, I used Reaper software. Input signal for recording: "Windows Sound Mapper". The signal on the second picture was what the hidden microphone was picking up when I was clapping, and you can see that none of the microphones listed in the recording devices windows are picking up any signal at all.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/0s8g82PMRhu3xCHSh85dYA.png

https://image.prntscr.com/image/8BY6ps16SGu-tP1LE1KydA.png

EDIT: I found out that windows sound mapper option was picking up my microphone, plugged into my scarlett soundcard, but the gain on the soundcard was set on 0. After I increased the gain it became obvious that that was the signal I was receiving. I can't seem to find the hidden microphone now ...

Harley

2nd September 2017, 20:12

EDIT: I found out that windows sound mapper option was picking up my microphone, plugged into my scarlett soundcard, but the gain on the soundcard was set on 0. After I increased the gain it became obvious that that was the signal I was receiving. I can't seem to find the hidden microphone now ...

Hi BlueMoon,

As you may or may not know, a microphone and a speaker work on the same principle of converting sound to electricity and vice-versa. Depending on the material they are made of, some will work quite well bidirectionally where others maybe not so well. But they all will work bidirectionally, and this can be controlled with the proper use of Software Mapping.

Now I don't know what kind of computer you're using, but now days almost all computer-controlled consumer devices - including your automobile, kitchen appliances, household tv/entertainment systems, and personal computers/electronics (cell phones, etc) - have a small System Speaker installed which is typically used for providing System Alerts and Troubleshooting Codes.

However if any of these devices are connected to any external communication source (internet, wifi, bluetooth, etc) they can also be either controlled or monitored with the use of software.

The System Speaker may be an actual mini-speaker which is attached to the chassis of larger hardware (usually found in older equipment).

(Examples of a Desktop PC Case Speaker/Computer Motherboard Buzzer)
http://storage3.static.itmages.com/i/17/0902/h_1504377423_2142117_ffb1e8342b.jpeg
http://storage2.static.itmages.com/i/17/0902/h_1504378114_4016863_0248e873a3.jpeg

Or it may be a Piezoelectric Transducer (sometimes called a Button Speaker) which is embedded on the hardware motherboard.

(Example of an Embedded Speaker.)
http://storage4.static.itmages.com/i/17/0902/h_1504378333_6987648_2f7e850c9f.jpeg

Here are a couple of short articles:

Why Do Computers Have Speakers on Their Motherboards? (http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/67186.aspx)

Piezoelectric Microphones (https://sensorsandtransducers.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/piezoelectric-microphones/) (Also called Piezoelectric Transducers).

This is just covering the basics but hope it helps!

:)

BlueMoon

2nd September 2017, 20:50

As you may or may not know, a microphone and a speaker work on the same principle of converting sound to electricity and vice-versa. Depending on the material they are made of, some will work quite well bidirectionally where others maybe not so well. But they all will work bidirectionally, and this can be controlled with the proper use of Software Mapping.
Very interesting, thank you Harley!
I know how the speakers and microphones work but I didn't know they can be used bidirectionally. I know there are speakers on the motherboard, I suspected there might be some microphones there as well. Guess I was right!

Hervé

17th December 2017, 13:37

From Jim Stone (http://82.221.129.208/.zo7.html):

Windows update alert: (http://82.221.129.208/.zo7.html)

This one is VERY STRANGE

The windows machine I have that has never been used online AT ALL, EVER and was brand new when I bought it two months ago, despite NEVER being used online, it suddenly started doing an update that took over an hour.

This computer has no internet connection available to it at all, unless Microsoft has set Windows up to illegally connect to WIFI it has never been told to connect to before. By illegal I mean, password protected "no access" WIFI.

After the update it ran like crap so I tried to force it to re-install from the manufacturer's embedded partition. When I started this from windows it hung at 9 percent for a half hour. I tried again and it always hung at 9 percent.

I then shut the computer off and pushed the NOVO button, (this is something Lenovo computers have, it is a great feature) got into the bios based recovery routine (that totally bypasses microsoft), launched the manufacturer's recovery from there, and it went very quickly, totally re-installed windows, and it runs like new again.

This happened despite:
1. Having all updates for all applications including windows disabled.
2. Never having the computer online EVER.
3. Never having the computer set up to access any WIFI connection at any time whatsoever.
4. Having wifi disabled in the bios.
5. Having the computer shut off for two consecutive months, only to turn it on after being boxed up for two months just to burn the Linux DVD'S. After that, the battery was charged but it was shut off and unplugged. It was only on for about 7 hours.
I turned it on this morning to see how it behaved with flash Linux. Immediately the first thing it did was start updating Windows. The update took a couple hours. Then it looked normal and ran horribly. I then put the other computer through the exact same steps (to see if a virus somehow got onto flash) and nothing happened.

So Windows will ignore being told to not update, and has a secondary channel through which it can pull in updates even if you have Wifi disabled and never configured it to get Wifi from anywhere. The processor was an AMD A8. It has a UEFI bios.

The other computer (which is identical) has had the WIFI card out of it since day one and usually has the hard drive unplugged while it runs Knoppix from flash.

Nothing weird has happened with the other computer.

So it is important to know:
If your machine is modern [with a] Microsoft [OS], it will defy all orders and ram updates onto itself no matter what, even if you don't have internet and never go online with it.
Most likely these happen in the dark behind your back, most often; but I happened to catch it doing it.

Hervé

19th December 2017, 17:47

From Jim Stone:

Crapware pre-packaged with Windows 10 allows complete and easy password theft (http://82.221.129.208/.zo4.html)
(http://82.221.129.208/.zo4.html)
A password manager called "keeper" is installed in Windows 10 by default. It allows easy password theft. Microsoft knew this months ago, and kept this vulnerability wide open in the latest update.

The following was posted to bugs.chromium.org (https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1481&desc=3) :

keeper: privileged ui injected into pages (again)
I recently created a fresh Windows 10 VM with a pristine image from MSDN, and found that a password manager called "Keeper" is now installed by default. I'm not the only person who has noticed this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6dpj78/keeper_password_manager_comes_preinstalled_now/

I assume this is some bundling deal with Microsoft. I've heard of Keeper, I remember filing a bug a while ago about how they were injecting privileged UI into pages (issue 917 (http://82.221.129.208/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=917)).

Amazingly, they're doing the exact same thing again with this version. I think I'm being generous considering this a new issue that qualifies for a ninety day disclosure, as I literally just changed the selectors and the same attack works.

Nevertheless, this is (again) a complete compromise of Keeper security, allowing any website to steal any password. Here is a working demo that steals your twitter password:
https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/keepertest.html

Please consider adding regression tests before releasing an update for this issue, as I do not plan on creating new issues for every piece of UI I can dispatch events to, and attackers will certainly check them all.

This bug is subject to a 90 day disclosure deadline. After 90 days elapse or a patch has been made broadly available, the bug report will become visible to the public.
My [Jim Stone's] comment: It could not be any more obvious that Microsoft allowed this intentionally in a way they could push the blame off on someone else. This will allow subversive political groups a way to:
1. Get countless false posts in the names of many people in whatever locations they feel are highly strategic politically.

2. Give them a doorway into every opponent's life, so they can destroy that opponent and the opponent will never know what hit them. That opponent could be as benign as your grandma when it is made this easy for an attacker.

3. Steal whatever they want.
This kind of security hole is a zionist's dream come true. They can destroy absolutely anyone with it. Not at all surprising it is Microsoft allowing it.

Michelle Marie

20th December 2017, 09:40

Hervé

20th December 2017, 13:09

[...]
Herve,
Is it ALL of Microsfts operating systems?
[...]
Jim didn't specify the OS his new computer(s) came pre-installed with, but, from the following lines, I infer it/(they) came with Windows 10 installed:

The windows machine I have that has never been used online AT ALL, EVER and was brand new when I bought it two months ago...
[...]
The other computer (which is identical) has had the WIFI card out of it since day one and usually has the hard drive unplugged while it runs Knoppix from flash.

Nothing weird has happened with the other computer.Now, IIRC, Windows 8 got into troubles when people realized the OS was re-wiring computers' firmwares without telling anyone and turned some computers into heaps of scrap metal. That was "corrected" with Windows 8.1 which, I therefore assume, might be susceptible to similar tricks as Windows 10.

Apparently, no such troubles with Windows 7.

Of course, it is also possible that such an update can be made compatible with previous OS versions... a standalone which could be installed courtesy of some "intelligence" agencies... no end to the possibilities :facepalm:

TargeT

20th December 2017, 13:19

Michelle Marie

20th December 2017, 17:09

Thanks Herve and TargeT,

One thing I do is always put in my settings "always ask for updates" and at least I know when updates are being installed and I can do it at a time when it is convenient for me.

I had heard of Windows 7 being automatically updated to windows 10 before, but as I mentioned, that computer has not been on the Internet for over 5 or 6 years.

The other one, with Vista, I get the updates. TargeT, I tried to avoid them for awhile, thinking I'd be safer, but a friend of mine who helps keep my computer efficient admonished me: "Get your updates!" For exactly the same reason you mentioned. Didn't I read somewhere that Vista is no longer supported?

I've lagged behind on purpose in getting the latest operating systems because I did not want to be a beta tester. I'm so glad I did stay behind!

I have had the feeling before, though, that just because A computer is not on the Internet, doesn't mean it is entirely safe.

Maybe the newer, the less safe. I also have computers with Windows 98, and Windows XP. I still have floppy disks in storage! I started working with PCs back in the days of dos. GUIs made it much more easy and fun initially. Now, they do too many things automatically. I've created my own ways of managing files, for example.

Thanks for your help--both of you.💞

💕🎀💕MM💕🎀💕

Ewan

20th December 2017, 17:28

Herve,

Is it ALL of Microsfts operating systems?

What we see from un-IT-savy is highly reminiscent of early mysticism....

There no witches, but there ARE some very... "poor"... decisions that were made in the implementation of data gathering / patching and inclusion of back doors.

Updates are good... they keep you "one step ahead" of the script kiddies.... avoiding them (patches) is like hanging a sign up on your internet connected computer saying "hey, I'm susceptible to this easily exploited un-patched vulnerability".

not a high return on effort issue to worry over.

Oh there are witches, there are definitely witches. Whether they are involved in patch updates I couldn't really say but is it not conceivable that some of these "poor" decisions might have been poor by design at some higher level.

With all the information we have seen, suggesting if not proving, that out of control agencies intent on data gathering have designed backdoors here, there and everywhere then a, relatively speaking, secure Win7 environment just has to be patched to the users detriment in that kind of mindset.

I turned off Windows update manually, I had to in order to stop the Win 10 rollout that was most insistent in installing certain aspects of itself on my machine whether I wanted it or not. In fact I uninstalled certain KB's and rolled back, turning it off (superficially it transpired) by asking windows not to update anything without asking me - but the machine would switch on in the small hours and reinstall regardless. So I cut it off at source and update simply cannot run anymore.

Through a combination of Zone Alarm and NoScript I have had a malware/virus free machine for near two years now and I have no anti-virus running.

Having said all that I fully expect to find my computer locked in 3, 2, *hi*!.

EDIT: BTW, the beauty of my machine is there is no wireless capacity, if the cable is not connected there is no possibilty of external input. Or so I believe.

Michelle Marie

20th December 2017, 17:57

Ewan

20th December 2017, 18:04

Michelle Marie

20th December 2017, 18:24

Thanks, Ewan! Advice not taken. 😉

Got the link/info though, in case "a friend" wants it. LOL

🌋🌌🌠MM🌠🌌🌋