Do you think Hell really exists?

[AMystic3434]

its kind of scary to think that hell exists for anyone but how to you explain where all the bad people go when they die. Im sure there is life after death but is it possible that not everyone goes to a good place when they die. Ive researched Near Death Experiences and while most of them are positive there are also negative scary ones where people go to a hell like place. Which makes me think there is such a place.

Ive read a few Dolores Cannon books and she says there is no hell. But again how would you explain where the truly evil people go. There are some really bad people in the world. But when Dolores cannon brings people back to there time of death and they explain what happens its kind of similar to what people explain they see when they have a near death experience which makes me think there is some truth to what she does.

What do you think?

[KiwiElf]

Only for those who believe it does :)

[t2016]

Being a Buddhist, I believe so.

[Aviator]

I think, the truth behind all this concepts is, that nobody goes really anywhere because the concept of a location is always connected with an experience during an existence in any kind of universe and therefore is just a temporary consideration depending on somebodies viewpoint. But yes, anybody can temporarily create his own "hell" in his current universe if he likes to. Nobody else will do that for him. This is all part of the game.

[Isserley]

Heaven and hell are largely in our mind. If you treasure a negative thought, then you are creating hell. Heaven and hell can be experienced every day.

[idiit]

the ed's say that all possibilities exist since as a possibility and creator beings creating because that's what they do all possibilities are naturally manifested in simultaneous dimensions.

I have listened to tolec and ray from st. Louis. ray has come out and stated that his 4 ed friends state there will be a stratification after the event. I intuitively think this is correct.

the malicious types love being malicious around a bunch of nice ppl. I doubt they would like being a lower tier entity in a very malicious environment; prey instead of predator in a spiritually predatory environment ( - spiritual environment ).

I hear a lot of Barney ( the purple dinosaur) " I love you, you love me, we're all one great big happy family" talk. yeah, if you are around similar spiritual entities. after the stratification ppl will exist in the spiritual environment of their choosing/nature.

being a bottom tier malevolent type in a very malevolent environment would be hell imo.

these spirits would have a learning experience that would serve as a foundation for choosing the next type of spiritual environment they would like to be reincarnated in with all spirits eventually returning to source.

the golden rule says treat others as you would like to be treated. the way one treats others including lower sentient life forms would determine the next spiritual context one would reincarnate to.

^ deft take on the subject imo.

[delfine]

I can recommend Michael Newton´s 2 books: "Journey of souls" and "Destiny of souls". His work is similar to Dolores Cannon´s, but better IMO.
As far as I remember he relates that hellish afterlife experiences can happen, but that they are temporary, like a purgatory, and largely self-created and that eventually we all end up with our soul-group and spiritual guide(s) again in the afterlife. Most people recieve healing in the afterlife, and the so-called bad people recieve the strongest and longest healing. There is no punishment as such, people learn from their mistakes. Only the cruellest and incorrigible risk to get their souls split up and re-used in other beings. They loose their right to individualized life.

[AMystic3434]

ya ive read the Michael newton books but wouldn't hypnosis be shady and playing with peoples minds. I don't know

[Innocent Warrior]

Hell is not a place, it's a state of being. It's self imposed, God doesn't send anyone to hell. Hell can be experienced in dreams, life, and after life.

[betoobig]

Many people experiences hell right here on earth. Isserley nailed it.
Hell is whenever you turn your back to source.
Love...Evol

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Love Rachel´s take.

[WhiteFeather]

IMO....No it doesn't. However you can create a Hell scenario if you choose that path In the way you live your life. Hell on Earth, if you so desire. And the same goes with Heaven or Haven, if you will.

[Aspen]

No. a myth used to control us. A fear tactic. Life here on earth is hard enough and for many a kind of hell.

[Pam]

I have been to Hell many times!!! Self created right between my 2 ears. When I buy into the egoic thoughts of separation in my head and allow that to become my reality, I have created many different intensities of a hell like mental state. When I let those thoughts of separation and self centered nature move right on through, I have a much more harmonious relationship with the world. Hell or heaven is totally up to me.

[Deega]

I think a definition may help.

hell
n.
1. Christianity
a. often Hell The place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, often imagined as being presided over by Satan and his devils.
b. A state of separation from God; exclusion from God's presence.
2. The abode of the dead in any of various religious traditions, such as the Hebrew Sheol or the Greek Hades; the underworld.
3.
a. A situation or place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction: "War is hell" (William Tecumseh Sherman).
b. An extremely difficult experience; torment or anguish: went through hell on the job.
4.
a. The spirits in hell or the powers of evil: All hell could not stop him.
b. Informal One that causes trouble, agony, or annoyance: The boss is hell when a job is poorly done.
5. A sharp scolding: gave the student hell for cheating.
6.
a. A tailor's receptacle for discarded material.
b. Printing A hellbox.
7. Informal
a. An outstanding or noteworthy example: You are one hell of a good cook.
b. Used as an intensive: How the hell should I know?
8. Archaic A gambling house.
intr.v. helled, hell·ing, hells Informal
To behave riotously; carouse: out all night helling around.
interj.
Used to express anger, disgust, or impatience.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hell


I like the 5th to 8th, the other one above relate to religions.

[Lefty Dave]

http://www.leftydave.com/How-Long.wma

bridge....explains how I feel about heaven and hades....what do you think ?

Not sure this is going to work...I'm so computer illiterate ....it says.....

I'd believe in heaven, but I don't think I'm going there...until that kingdom will be here
And I've heard about hades...but I don't think I'm going there...might be making my own hell right here.

blessings all....

end of line

[idiit]

I think the ppl living on mars are probably living in a hellish environment.



being a sex slave run by psychopathic criminals sounds pretty hellish to me.


I use the word hell more broadly than others.

I believe that some very hellish worlds worse than our imaginations exist. real deal real hells. not talking about miserable conditions here on earth.

[Jake]

Hell is not a place, it's a state of being. It's self imposed, God doesn't send anyone to hell. Hell can be experienced in dreams, life, and after life.

Couldn't thank this enough! :) I've always had it in my mind that Hell is ANY place, state of mind, state of being, dementional locale, etc,,, where you cannot see the light of God/Source!

There's no room in the popular concept of Hell, for me.. (No room in hell for me,, lol... please excuse this terrible pun.)

Jake

[Akasha]

Yes - I'm cast into it every time I speak to my pentecostal parents. Oh the irony!

[Sean]

Of course hell exists.

But due to "branding issues", bad reputation, etc, they changed the name.

It's now called "Los Angeles" :)

[Ted]

Hell is not a place, it's a state of being. It's self imposed, God doesn't send anyone to hell. Hell can be experienced in dreams, life, and after life.

I agree, we make our own hell. In a sense the bible thumpers are correct. They are famous for telling people: "repent ye sinners, or face hell and damnation!". My interpretation of this is that if you don't wake up and realize what your escape options are (repentance), you're bound to come back here (hell and damnation). Actually, we don't go anywhere, but rather stay where we are. What can be more hellish than our perceived separation from unconditional love.

[Bubu]

Of course hell exists.

But due to "branding issues", bad reputation, etc, they changed the name.

It's now called "Los Angeles" :)

I was in hell couple of weeks back but Im sure its not LA. hell there are many hells:facepalm:

[Selkie]

I don't think hell, as a place we go to after we die, really exists, but sometimes I wish it did, because there are several people of my acquaintance who I hope will go there.

addition People of my 3-D acquaintance, that is.

[Jhonie]

I don't think Source would create a hell for anyone. I mean would YOU pour gasoline on your kid and set it on fire? No, you would not. LOVE would never do such a thing.

[Agape]

I believe it was J.W. Goethe who said ''All deeds are repayed on Earth'' ( can't find the source though ) .

Go to see the world .. it's 4 sides and 12 corners .. and you will find both, heavens and hells.

But don't dwell upon them , teach righteousness by good deeds ..

good deeds may lead to Heaven

bad deeds lead to Hells.



:heart:

[kemo]

Yes indeed, to answer the question one would have to know what one defines as hell and what one means by "exist". It's not a place as neither is heaven. I think a liberal Christian view (as opposed to brimstone and standing on one's head drinking cups of tea until the 'back on your heads' order (it's an very old joke)) would be that hell is the absence of God. If one believes in a universal sentience I'm not sure that is possible either. I'm reminded of a line on a Gilbert O'Sullivan (remember him?) "nothing is stillborn or lost". I'd go with that, or I don't know what God or the source or whatever you wish to call it means.

[bearcow]

without a doubt there are hellish regions of the astral world, and some beings are trapped there for long periods of "time"

Anyone who has genuine experience in astral projection knows this is true

[Kryztian]

Hell would be eternal damnation.

Eternal.
Forever.
Irrevocable.

Keep that idea in mind while you contemplate another one: "God is Love."

I believe the two ideas are incompatible. Wouldn't God always be open to giving you another chance? Would (s)he really want you to suffer without hope, when there is always a chance for you do improve yourself?

As a Roman Catholic, I think the concept of Purgatory is much more reasonable than Hell (with apologies to my Protestant friends and others) and as a reader of Dolores Cannon, I think our life on Earth is part of it. It is a school for souls and the longer we spend here, the better they become, the more suited they will be for some higher plane of vibration, aka "heaven".

[lake]

I thought that this 'place' was hell, I researched it in many ways then considered it for a long time.
I came to the conclusion that even with the removal of 'man' from the equation, this Terra was still Hell.
I now find myself re-reading my own words and whilst I can find value in my past thoughts I can no longer conceive of this creation as hell.
It is very harsh to mine eyes but there is vastly more involved within it.

The sea of thought which we as a being sail upon includes individual and collective ripples, each of which funds the next wake which our perception considers singular pasts and so we each act a part within this sea of thought, described by our own unique limitations.

There is not a singular hell but multitudes manifest by lack of interaction with a natural want which has been replaced by artificial means.

This will change .... ....... thankfully

[Robin]

Everybody is responsible for their own actions. Those who incur harm onto others accumulate Karma in their next lifetime. Karma is the universe's immune system to ensure that evil is not rewarded.

On a macro scale, Hell is a metaphor for winter, because the sun (Jesus) "dies." Please see my post here. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81805-The-Blog-of-The-Ruiner-Inside-the-Illuminati-Mind&p=992613&viewfull=1#post992613)

On a micro scale, Hell is a metaphor for our Root Chakra, which is responsible for our base desires, and our ego. Please see my post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81805-The-Blog-of-The-Ruiner-Inside-the-Illuminati-Mind&p=981626&viewfull=1#post981626).

[ghostrider]

Hell is not real in my opinion ...hell is a construct for the mind to keep people under control and following the marching orders of King James ... people have NDE's and always say they saw a bright light full of love and they wanted to stay there forever ...

[Lost N Found]

I was going to post here this morning and show just what hell we create and live with daily. My post was going to show a video of PTSD and the affects on veterans,firefighters, leos,EMTs and any other peoples that deal with death and destruction on a daily basis. Hell you say, We create this ourselves, Governments create it for us. Any entity that seeks to control or destroy human or any kind of life is hell. the word hell and heaven have come from the books of religion created by man through out time. So our concepts have been instilled into us from birth. We have always had some hell and heaven through out our lives.

So for those of us that deal with everyday living here in America, not so bad is it but bring it down to personal contacts or stuff in life and we get to experience that hell or that heaven. All the while never really experiencing the broader afflictions of life. Kind of becomes a personal experience then doesn't it. So Hell is real for us in the here and now of what is going on within our lives or heaven is real the same way.

Now I or you go to war in a foreign country, it still is personal but on such a broader scope. Watch a buddy get his head blown off right next to you, watch a friend get shot right before your eyes and do everything you can to save his life essence. Either succeed or not, This is pure hell folks so don't ever think that it does not exist. WAR is hell. Walking in the mountains with no harm or devastation is heaven, Watching a sunset on the beach or in the mountains is heaven, So seeing all of this and having the concept within ones self defines heaven and hell. Without being in a WAR one can go through heaven or hell. Women get beat and totally mistreated by men. Men can be done to the same way. Children are beaten, sexually abused and harmed so bad while just trying to grow up. This then is hell is it not? Heaven only arrives when none of this is happening anymore and all affliction is healed. Just concepts folks but reality causes one or the other.

I have some apocrypha that I have picked up from gnostic writings and others so I will post this for you to peruse. Just some interesting angles of heaven and Hell.
this may be a bit long but take your time and even download on to the harddrive.

The Apocalypse (or Revelation) of Peter
Note that a separate (and entirely different) text
of this same name is found in the Nag Hammadi Library.

From the Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. X

INTRODUCTION TO THE REVELATION OF PETER.
The fragment here translated was discovered in 1880 by the French Archaeological Mission in an ancient burying place at Akhmim in Upper Egypt. It was published at Paris in 1892 (Bouriant, Mèmoires publiès par les membres de la Mission Archèologique Francaise au Caire, T. ix., fasc. 1, 1892). The ms. is now in the Gizeh Museum and has been held to be of a date between the eighth and twelfth centuries. Until the discovery of the fragment, the following was all that was known about the Revelation of Peter.
1. The so-called Muratorian Fragment, a list of sacred writings, first published by Muratori in 1740, and found by him in a seventh or eighth century ms. belonging to the Ambrosian Library in Milan, but which had previously belonged to the Columban Monastery of Bobbio, is assigned on internal evidence to the third quarter of the second century. (Vide Westcott, Canon of the N. T., p. 514.) At line 60 it says: "the Apocalypses also of John and Peter only do we receive, which (latter) some among us would not have read in church."
2. Clement of Alexandria (fl. c. 200 a.d.) in his Hypotoposes, according to the testimony of Eusebius, H. E., vi., 14, gave "abridged accounts of all the canonical Scriptures, not even omitting those that are disputed, I mean the book of Jude and the other general epistles. Also the Epistle of Barnabas and that called the Revelation of Peter." Also in his Eclogoe Propheticae, chapters 41, 48 and 49, he gives three, or as some think, four quotations from the Revelation of Peter, mentioning it twice by name.
3. The Catalogue Claromontanus, an Eastern list of Holy Scriptures, belonging to the third century, gives at the end the Revelation of Peter (v. Westcott, Canon, p. 55). This catalogue gives the length of the various books it enumerates measured in stichoi. Our book is said to have two hundred and seventy, which makes it rather longer than the Epistle to the Colossians which has two hundred and fifty-one.
4. Methodius, bishop of Olympus in Lycia in the beginning of the fourth century, in his Symposium, ii., 6, says, "wherefore we have also learned from divinely inspired Scriptures that untimely births even if they are the offspring of adultery are delivered to caretaking angels." Though Peter is not here mentioned, the purport of the passage is the same as that of one of the quotations given by Clement of Alexandria.
5. Eusebius (_ c. 339 a.d.), in his Ecclesiastical History, iii., 25, expressly mentions the Revelation of Peter along with the Acts of Paul and the Pastor as spurious books, while at iii., 3, he says: "as to that which is called the Preaching and that called the Apocalypse of Peter, we know nothing of their being handed down as Catholic writings. Since neither among the ancients nor among the ecclesiastical writers of our own day, has there been anyone that has appealed to testimony taken from them."
6. Macarius Magnes (beginning of fifth century) in his Apocritica,, iv., 6 quotes as from a heathen opponent of Christianity the following: "Let us by way of superfluity cite also that saying in the Apocalypse of Peter. It thus introduces the heaven as being about to undergo judgment along with the earth. `The earth, 'it says, `shall present all men before God at the day of judgment, being itself also to be judged along with the heaven also which encompasses it.'" And at iv., 16, he examines this passage again, naming the revelation of Peter, and supporting the doctrine of the passage by the authority of prophecy (Isaiah 34:4) and the Gospel (Matthew 24:85).
7. Sozomen (middle of fifth century), H. E., vii., 19, says: "For instance, the so-called Apocalypse of Peter which was esteemed as entirely spurious by the ancients, we have discovered to be read in certain churches of Palestine up to the present day, once a, year, on the day of preparation, during which the people most religiously fast in commemoration of the Saviour's Passion" (i.e., on Good Friday). It is to be noted that Sozomen himself belonged to Palestine.
8. In the list of the Sixty Books which is assigned to the fifth or sixth century the Revelation of Peter is mentioned among the Apocrypha (v. Westcott, Canon, p. 551).
9. The so-called Stichometry of Nicephorus, a list of scriptures with notes of their extent, ascribed to Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople, 806-814 a.d., includes the Revelation of Peter among the antilegomena or disputed writings of the New Testament, and gives it three hundred stichoi or thirty more than the above-mentioned Catalogus Claromontanas.
10. The Armenian annalist Mkhitan (thirteenth century) in a list of the New Testament antilegomena mentions the Revelation of Peter, after the Gospel of Thomas and before the Periodoi Pauli, and remarks that he has himself copied these books. (Cf. Harnack, Geschichte der altchristlichen Literatur.)
Up till lately these facts represented all that was positively known of the Revelation of Peter. From them we gather that it must have been written before the middle of the second. century (so as to be known at Rome and included in the Muratorian Canon), that it had a wide circulation, that it was for some time very popular, so that it would appear to have run a considerable chance of achieving a place in the canon, but that it was ultimately rejected and in the long run dropped out of knowledge altogether. But even previously to the discovery at AkhméÆm, the general character of the book had been inferred from the scanty fragments preserved in ancient writers and from the common elements contained in other and later apocalyptic writings which seemed to require some such book as the Revelation of Peter as their ultimate source. Such writings are the (Christian) Apocalypse of Esdras, the Vision of Paul, the Passion of S. Perpetua and the visions contained in the History of Barlaam and Josaphat. (Cf. Robinson, Texts and Studies, i., 2, p. 37-43, and Robinson and James, The Gospel according to Peter and the Revelation of Peter, 1892.)
The Revelation of Peter affords the earliest embodiment in Christian literature of those pictorial presentations of heaven and hell which have exercised so widespread and enduring an influence. It has, in its imagery, little or no kinship with the Book of Daniel, the Book of Enoch, or the Revelation of S. John. Its only parallels in canonical scripture, with the notable exception of the Second Epistle of Peter, are to be found in Isaiah lxvi., 24, Mark ix., 44, 48, and the parable of Dives and Lazarus in Luke xvi., 19. It is indeed Judaic in the severity of its morality and even in its phraseology (cf. the frequent use of the word righteous, and the idea that God and not Christ will come to judge sinners). Rut the true parallels for, if not the sources of, its imagery of the rewards and punishments which await men after death are to be found in Greek beliefs which have left their traces in such passages as the Vision of Er at the end of Plato's Republic.
The heaven of the Petrine Apocalypse is akin to the Elysian Fields and the Islands of the Blest. In it the saints are crowned as with flowers and beautiful of countenance, singing songs of praise in the fragrant air, in a land all lighted up with the light of the sun.1 We are reminded of "the Elysian Fields and the world's end where is Rhadamanthus of the fair hair, where life is easiest for men. No snow is there, nor yet great storm, nor any rain; but alway Ocean sendeth forth the breeze of the shrill West to blow cool on men" (Odyssey, iv., 568), and of the garden of the gods on Olympus, which "is not shaken by winds, or ever wet with rain, nor doth the snow come nigh thereto, but most clear air is spread about it cloudless, and the white light floats over it" (Odyssey, vi., 43, Butcher and Lang's transl.). Perhaps the most striking parallel of all is afforded by the fragment of a dirge of Pindar: "For them shineth below the strength of the sun, while in our world it is night, and the space of crimson-flowered meadow before their city is full of the shade of frankincense trees, and of fruits of gold. And some in horses, and in bodily feats, and some in dice, and. some in harp-playing have delight; and. among them thriveth all fair-flowering bliss; and fragrance streameth ever through the lovely land, as they mingle incense of every kind upon the altars of the gods" (Pindar, E. Myer's transl., p. 116). Beside this heaven the New Jerusalem of the canonical Apocalypse is austere. Rut it is the spiritual city. "For the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon to shine on it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb were in the midst of it and the Lamb was the light thereof."
So likewise in the case of the torments of the wicked as presented in the Revelation of Peter. We are not here in the Jewish Sheol, or among the fires of the valley of Hinnom, so much as among the tortures of Tartarus and the boiling mud of the Acherusian Lake (cf. Plato, Phaedo, p. 113; Aristophanes, Frogs, line 145), or where "wild men of fiery aspect... seized and. carried off several of them, and Ardiaeus and others, they bound head and foot and hand, and threw them down and flayed them with scourges, and dragged them along the road at the side, carding them on thorns like wool, and declaring to the passers-by what were their crimes, and that they were being taken away to be cast into hell" (Republic, x., p. 616, Jowett's transl.). It is not surprising that in later visions of the same kind the very names of the Greek under-world are ascribed to localities of hell. It is across the river Oceanus. It is called Tartarus, In it is the Acherusian Lake. Notice in this connection that the souls of innocent victims are present along with their murderers to accuse them.
The Revelation of Peter shows remarkable kinship in ideas with the Second Epistle of Peter. The parallels will be noted in the margin of the translation. It also presents notable parallels to the Sibylline Oracles (cf. Orac. Sib., ii., 225 sqq.), while its influence has been conjectured, almost with certainty, in the Acts of Perpetua and. the visions narrated in the Acts of Thomas and the History of Barlaam and Josaphat. It certainly was one of the sources from which the writer of the Vision of Paul drew. And directly or indirectly it may be regarded as the parent of all the mediaeval visions of the other world.
The fragment begins in the middle of an eschatological discourse of Jesus, probably represented as delivered after the resurrection, for verse 5 implies that the disciples had begun to preach the Gospel. It ends abruptly in the course of a catalogue of sinners in hell and their punishments. The fragments preserved in the writings of Clement of Alexandria and Methodius probably belonged to the lost end of the book; that preserved by Macarius Magnes may have belonged to the eschatological discourse at the beginning. Taking the length of the whole at from two hundred and seventy to three hundred stichoi, the Akhmim fragment contains about the half.
The present translation is made from Harnack's edition of the text, 2d ed., Leipzig, 1893.
There is another and later Apocalypse of Peter in Arabic, of which mss. exist in Rome and Oxford. It is called the Apocalypse of Peter, or the narrative of things revealed to him by Jesus Christ which had taken place from the beginning of the world and which shall take place till the end of the world or the second coming of Christ. The book is said to have been written by Clement, to whom Peter had communicated the secrets revealed to him. The writer himself calls the book Librum Perfectionis or Librum Completum. Judging from the analysis of its contents quoted by Tischendorf (Apocalypses Apocr.) it has no connection with the present work.


The Apocalypse of Peter
1. ... many of them will be false prophets, and will teach divers ways and doctrines of perdition: but these will become sons of perdition.
3. And then God will come unto my faithful ones who hunger and thirst and are afflicted and purify their souls in this life; and he will judge the sons of lawlessness.
4. And furthermore the Lord said: Let us go into the mountain: Let us pray.
5. And going with him, we, the twelve disciples, begged that he would show us one of our brethren, the righteous who are gone forth out of the world, in order that we might see of what manner of form they are, and having taken courage, might also encourage the men who hear us.
6. And as we prayed, suddenly there appeared two men standing before the Lord towards the East, on whom we were not able to look;
7, for there came forth from their countenance a ray as of the sun, and their raiment was shining, such as eye of man never saw; for no mouth is able to express or heart to conceive the glory with which they were endued, and the beauty of their appearance.
8. And as we looked upon them, we were astounded; for their bodies were whiter than any snow and ruddier than any rose;
9, and the red thereof was mingled with the white, and I am utterly unable to express their beauty;
10, for their hair was curly and bright and seemly both on their face and shoulders, as it were a wreath woven of spikenard and divers-coloured flowers, or like a rainbow in the sky, such was their seemliness.
11. Seeing therefore their beauty we became astounded at them, since they appeared suddenly.
12. And I approached the Lord and said: Who are these?
13. He saith to me: These are your brethren the righteous, whose forms ye desired to see.
14. And I said to him: And where are all the righteous ones and what is the aeon in which they are and have this glory?
15. And the Lord showed me a very great country outside of this world, exceeding bright with light, and the air there lighted with the rays of the sun, and the earth itself blooming with unfading flowers and full of spices and plants, fair-flowering and incorruptible and bearing blessed fruit.
16. And so great was the perfume that it was borne thence even unto us.
17. And the dwellers in that place were clad in the raiment of shining angels and their raiment was like unto their country; and angels hovered about them there.
18. And the glory of the dwellers there was equal, and with one voice they sang praises alternately to the Lord God, rejoicing in that place.
19. The Lord saith to us: This is the place of your high-priests, the righteous men.
20. And over against that place I saw another, squalid, and it was the place of punishment; and those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their raiment dark like the air of the place.
21. And there were certain there hanging by the tongue: and these were the blasphemers of the way of righteousness; and under them lay fire, burning and punishing them. 22. And there was a great lake, full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness, and tormenting angels afflicted them.
23. And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up: and these were they who adorned themselves for adultery; and the men who mingled with them in the defilement of adultery, were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire. And I said: I did not believe that I should come into this place.
24. And I saw the murderers and those who conspired with them, cast into a certain strait place, full of evil snakes, and smitten by those beasts, and thus turning to and fro in that punishment; and worms, as it were clouds of darkness, afflicted them. And the souls of the murdered stood and looked upon the punishment of those murderers and said: O God, thy judgment is just.
25. And near that place I saw another strait place into which the gore and the filth of those who were being punished ran down and became there as it were a lake: and there sat women having the gore up to their necks, and over against them sat many children who were born to them out of due time, crying; and there came forth from them sparks of fire and smote the women in the eyes: and these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion.
26. And other men and women were burning up to the middle and were cast into a dark place and were beaten by evil spirits, and their inwards were eaten by restless worms: and these were they who persecuted the righteous and delivered them up.
27. And near those there were again women and men gnawing their own lips, and being punished and receiving a red-hot iron in their eyes: and these were they who blasphemed and slandered the way of righteousness.
28. And over against these again other men and women gnawing their tongues and having flaming fire in their mouths: and these were the false witnesses.
29. And in a certain other place there were pebbles sharper than swords or any spit, red-hot, and women and men in tattered and filthy raiment rolled about on them in punishment: and these were the rich who trusted in their riches and had no pity for orphans and widows, and despised the commandment of God.
30. And in another great lake, full of pitch and blood and mire bubbling up, there stood men and women up to their knees: and these were the usurers and those who take interest on interest.
31. And other men and women were being hurled down from a great cliff and reached the bottom, and again were driven by those who were set over them to climb up upon the cliff, and thence were hurled down again, and had no rest from this punishment: and these were they who defiled their bodies acting as women; and the women who were with them were those who lay with one another as a man with a woman.
32. And alongside of that cliff there was a place full of much fire, and there stood men who with their own hands had made for themselves carven images instead of God. And alongside of these were other men and women, having rods and striking each other and never ceasing from such punishment.
33. And others again near them, women and men, burning and turning themselves and roasting: and these were they that leaving the way of God

Fragments of the Apocalypse of Peter.
1. Clemens Alexandrinus, Eclog. 48. For instance, Peter in the Apocalypse says that the children who are born out of due time shall be of the better part: and that these are delivered over to a care-taking angel that they may attain a share of knowledge and gain the better abode [after suffering what they would have suffered if they had been in the body: but the others shall merely obtain salvation as injured beings to whom mercy is shown, and remain without punishment, receiving this as a reward].
2. Clem. Alex. Eclog. 49. But the milk of the women running down from their breasts and congealing shall engender small flesh eating beasts: and these run up upon them and devour them.
3. Macarius Magnes, Apocritica iv., 6 cf. 16. The earth, it (sc. the Apoc. of Peter) says, "shall present all men before God at the day of judgment, being itself also to be judged, with the heaven also which encompasses it."
4. Clem. Alex. Eclog. 41. The scripture says that infants that have been exposed are delivered to a care-taking angel, by whom they are educated and so grow up, and they will be, it says, as the faithful of a hundred years old are here.
5. Methodius, Conviv. ii., 6. Whence also we have received in divinely-inspired scriptures that untimely births are delivered to care-taking angels, even if they are the offspring of adultery.

[Mandala]

Idilt, your post used the term "stratification" could you explain that to me? I'm not familiar with it.

"I have listened to tolec and ray from st. Louis. ray has come out and stated that his 4 ed friends state there will be a stratification after the event. I intuitively think this is correct."

Also since we are talking about hell, then I have to ask is the devil real? Are there really angels and demons? Are the demons the fallen angels who supposedly fought a war against each other. And the Nephilim are the offspring of the daughters of men and the angels?

And, while we're at it can someone help me with the Sumerian tablets and how the biblical stories are related through parable?
Enki and Enli, two Anunnaki half-brothers quite aggressive towards each other.

From a Biblical perspective, it was Enki who (with the critical assistance of his half-sister, Ninki, aka Nin-khursag) created Adam and Eve. It was Enlil, on the other hand, who created “Edin”. Enki was the serpent in the garden, who urged Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (which was infinitely beneficial to their spiritual growth). It was Enlil, who drove them out of Edin, while Enki was there to clothe them. It is worth noting that Zecharia Sitchin [2] claims that the biblical word for “snake” is nahash, which comes from the root word NHSH, and which means “to decipher, to find out.” In other words, Enki, the God of Wisdom.

In the time of Noah, it was Enlil who either created the Great Deluge/Flood as a means of wiping out mankind (because they supposedly made too much noise), or else refused to warn the humans or do anything to save them or help them to save themselves. Enki, on the other hand, apparently against orders of the Anunnaki (who Enlil now controlled), provided the boat plans for Noah to build his Ark, and thus save him, his family (and likely a fair number of helpful artisans and their families). Enki included as well the seed of other living things (a “natural” kind of thing to do).

In the Sumerian texts, we have the stories of Enki and Enlil, and for the most part there is portions devoted to each. But in Genesis, Enlil seemingly reigns supreme.

And while we are talking, can someone explain how Cern figures into opening portals which may let out inter-dimensional demons?

Please, help me out here.

[Gatita]

I used to work there.

Cat

[T Smith]

To wrap your brain around it this way, concepts like "good" and "bad", or "heaven" and "hell" are really but manifestations of polarity consciousness, which is the defining mechanism of human consciousness at its current state of development. Does Hell exist? Yes, but...there is really no such thing as good or bad, there just IS. Judgement is thus a unique characteristic of polarity consciousness (as all the various Masters who have ascended polarity consciousness seem to convey in one way or another). It is how we humans process What Is, e.g., positive/negative, good/evil, joy/suffering, right/wrong, etc. These are all human constructs.

Some call this polarity state 3rd density consciousness, or the 3rd dimension, whereas there are even lower, heavier densities of being (likely much more hellish experiences of being in terms of our present understanding of things), and higher, lighter densities of being (likely much more loving and joyful experiences of being). Souls trekking on this journey of spiritual experience might consider our 3rd dimension as some kind of common ground where souls (perhaps even a collective of souls--as in the species itself) moving in both directions in their travels coalesce and interact together, to learn from another, to draw from their common experiences and move on to their respective higher/lighter densities above, or to to their lower/heavier densities below. There are even some accounts of humanity itself falling and rising en masse to and from 4th density, from times dating back to Lemuria and before where there was a collective descent to where we are now, a sort of "falling from grace" to put judgement or Biblical terms on it, whereas we all know about the opposite awakening of the species, to higher and lighter densities. Our species--or 3rd density consciousness--is on both journeys. And our reality is a launching ground for souls readying themselves for both experiences. Ascension vs. descension. Heaven vs. Hell. This is all by choice and free will. So if hell scares you, you decide.... (although a word of caution, if you are scared of Hell and want to avoid it at all costs, you are likely moving in that direction...fear is most certainly a characteristic of densities further away from Source than closer).

So to answer your question, does Hell exist? Yes, but it's not necessarily a punishment. It's merely a state of consciousness for the soul to learn from and expand from. From our perspective it is probably horrifying and terrifying, yes. But from an expanded perspective, it's all part of What Is.

If you want to take it further, one would ask why in Hell (pun intended) would some souls be descending to what might seem a terrifying abyss? Remember, underlying this whole journey is free will and choice. To that question I would posit the journey is all cyclical; there is no judgment. No experience is better or worse than any other experience. It just IS. So on our journeys we are all ascending to be One with Divine, but once we get there there may be only one way to keep expanding in consciousness, and that may be to separate from Divine and begin our descent back down through the various rungs of spiritual existence. This journey is a never ending circle, up and down, up and down, ad infinitum. Infinity, or ∞.

We might just envisage 3rd density as the intersection point in our symbolic sideways figure eight, where we just so happen to be in an vibratory state of being where the journey, for all of us, is upon a two-way street.

[Joe Akulis]

I think the best people to seek out for questions like this are the ones who have experience doing "astral rescue" work. Bruce Moen, a student of the Monroe Institute wrote a few books based on his experiences, and they tell about all the things he learned as he became more adept at it.

We also have a few folks here at Avalon who have valuable experience doing this, and can provide a lot of information to help clarify things. I'm still a fan of Robert Monroe's books because I'm very analytical, and like to pick everything apart, and I like the way he categorized different "territories" in the "afterlife" by their characteristics, as you increase in consciousness. This, combined with some threads here at Avalon, like the long running one that TraineeHuman was so gracious to put so much time into, have done a lot to help me understand what it is that people are seeing when they have these visions of people in the afterlife suffering one torment or another.

Edgar Cayce mentioned a few times how, as he was travelling back and forth to the higher levels of consciousness where the Akashic Records exist, he would have to not pay any attention to the lower levels that he would have to pass by, where the darker things are taking place. Monroe liked to call these the "belief system territories".

One thing you have to keep in mind is that this next layer of conscious that most people refer to as the afterlife, it is almost immediately responsive to your thoughts. So if you believe you belong somewhere when you die, your own mind can help make that true for you by creating that place, or by finding and taking you to one that already exists and matches your beliefs.

What else can your mind do to you? It can close off a tunnel of light that would have probably taken you to a higher, more peaceful place in the astral, if all you do is believe that you are not worthy of what's on the other side.

You mind can also take you anyplace in the astral as fast as you can think it. BUT, it helps if you've been there before, and you know where you're going! :-) Otherwise, you have to trust in the tunnels of light to take you to someplace that you want to go, but don't know the way yet. However, it seems if you're interested in visiting another person, people seem to zip around to other people lickety split, without as many tunnels to those trips. *shrug* Just relaying things I've read.

You can summon the help of higher beings, like guardian angels or the spirits of other humans who are there simply waiting for rookies to ask for help with their thoughts. (Not to say that guardian angels can't be humans. :-)

If you kick the bucket tomorrow and you find yourself in the void and not sure what to expect, don't wait for something to happen to you, just ask to be taken to the Park. It's a place that resides above the middle layer of belief system territories, where you can take stock of your new situation in a place of peace, where there are loads of people hovering around waiting for you to ask a question.

Some people like to go find their own quiet, unoccupied spot and create their own home away from the physical. Like, using your mind to create your own beach, and just zen out for a while.

If you're looking for me, I'll be at a place that looks like my avatar photo. :-)

Oh, by the way, I hate to break it to folks who are new to some of this, but there's hundreds of hells in those lower levels, and then up above those, at a higher layer of consciousness, there are also hundreds of heavens, where astral travelers like William Buhlman have witnessed priests and their congregations sitting around in perfect paradises with green grass, and pies on the windowsills, all waiting and wondering in hushed tones why this "heaven" seems someone limited, but are all too afraid to give voice to their concerns.

I say don't waste your time and skip all of that!

Much love to all on this thread.

[Jhonie]

What if it were ALL bullocks? All of it.

[Avuso]

Hell, as a wide variety of incredibly limited and unpleasant, but temporary experiences in the astral realms, exists, but isn't something to fear.

After death it becomes impossible to hide our unconscious beliefs, true intentions, past deeds, and our general level of consciousness, or vibration if you prefer. You are drawn to a plane that exactly matches your vibrational signature so the people around you are about as nice or mean as you are, for better or for worse.

One thing that happens in this state is that extended periods of time, say 50 years, can pass without it seeming more than a day. When people do wake up to the state of their poor spiritual condition, often helped by other more evolved beings, it can seem like it was a bad dream.


I don't think Source would create a hell for anyone. I mean would YOU pour gasoline on your kid and set it on fire? No, you would not. LOVE would never do such a thing.

Personally I'm inclined to think Source did not create this world, so an unpleasant hellish experience is possible both here and after death. Yes, we were created from Source, we are loved, but we're caught in a dream state, believing ourselves to be individuals instead of remembering our true home with God.

If we really are sorted after death based on our true inner state, it sure is encouragement to look closely and honestly at all that we think, believe and do. We can bull**** for awhile, but it will catch up to us. So remember we are not guilty, we do not deserve punishment, there is powerful divine help available, and it's all just a bad dream- heavenly realms included! :)

Good discussion y'all!

[Snoweagle]

(Heaven and) Hell are both products of enforcement of OBEDIENCE. Promoted by various religions to enforce capture of supplicant apostates. All religious beliefs have Hell as it works a treat to subserviate the congregation. Five thousand year old Mind Control.

Hell is driven by fear. Favoured tool is the unknown, horror and spectacle.

IMO: Summary. Heaven and Hell do not exist, never had and never will. (Think of it as Fiat money: The banks do not have any "money" yet we depend on them for doing so.) ROFLMAO

[Wind]

Besides the lower astral (the underworld, I presume), I say like many others have said here, hell is indeed a state of mind. Bliss and unconditional love are the opposites. We can experience both heaven and hell here on Earth... Although eventually we can fully transform this place into a literal heaven, it will just take some patience and effort.

[araucaria]

Hell certainly exists as a literary experience, i.e. it exists at the very least in the minds of certain writers, in communicable form, i.e. in ways that can be reflected in our 3D reality. Try Malcolm Lowry’s Under the Volcano.


http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/05/100-best-novels-observer-malcolm-lowry-under-the-volcano
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Volcano

[OBwan]

The belief in Hell or Past Lives cannot be proven or disproved. I was taught as a child the fear perspective of Hell. The fear of eternal damnation was an un-healthy outlook.

When I chose to believe Past Lives, this lead me on a path to love and healing. My spiritual path of Past Live resulted in me becoming a person with less fear, less judgmental, and more compassionate.

Ron Mauer Sr in his posting “My theories. And yours?” succinctly discusses a Non-Hell theory that my spiritual belief encompass.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84725-My-theories.-And-yours&p=992037#post992037

If one cannot prove or disprove a belief it then comes down to a choice. If living with the belief of Hell or Past Lives makes you have less fear, less judgment, more compassionate, more peaceful, more loving then chose that that thought. A belief is nothing more than a thought one continues to think.

[Omni]

I have not read this thread yet, but in my view heaven and hell are states of mind, not places. Much like how paradise is a state of mind, not a place IMO. These both exist for various types of agendas and beings on our planet I'd say. I live an extremes of duality life with severe electronic tortures and some very great moments from time to time. I'd say I've experienced the universal planetary 3D heavens and hells to some degree, in terms of experiences.

Palestine seems to be what hell might be like. Or other countries. Certainly more having to do with hell than some dimension where people get tortured for eternity after one short lived lifetime... At least Allah saves people from hell. From what christianity says god sends people to hell and has them tortured forever and/or destroys their soul. This is pure fiction IMHO.

[Sunny-side-up]

If you can consider who you truly are on a Spiritual level, that is a 'Light being, a Soul! If you can consider where such a being is naturally meant to be, well that is heaven, so where are we now?

This was once Eden but not now!

The word 'Hell' is a control device to keep us in fear and yes a state of being! Not a real place.
Think also " Is anything real?"

[Lost N Found]

Hell no, wait, hell yes, No wait, oh crap I am so confused. Okay you can laugh now and stop being so damn serious all the time. Shoot, I posted here before and all the folks posting have some very great ideas and thoughts of this concept. As I stated before, the only thing about hell that I can see is what we create on a daily basis. If anyone wants to contemplate on what they think based on man made religions, man written books and man made definitions that is perfectly fine. I just do not see how anyone living in this fleshly skin can actually understand something that is totally existential in thought. I would ask, have you died and gone their and can you actually write this down and exhibit real pictures and artifacts to us on this plane so that we may all believe? I am not saying that something is not real that may be a belief, I am merely saying that how can we know. Same thing with trying to wrap a mind around what the scientists say about the dinosaurs. How the (hell) can they know, ain't a one of them that were around 65 millions of years ago yet they foisture upon us some carbon dating crap that has already been debunked. Same thing with the Climate Change crap that started with good old al gore gone who has made billions off our ignorance.

Hell no, Wait, Hell yes, wait wait just a minute here.

[gripreaper]

Ah what the hell, I was just going to breeze over this discussion since I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about, but hell, I felt this is one hell of a subject and I'd join in just for the hell of it.

But, why in the hell should I do that when all hell could break loose depending on the hellish things I might say, so some one might respond if I join in, "like hell you will" and I might just respond "What the hell did you just say?" I might just then run like hell and not come back till hell freezes over. Why the hell not?

You might just tell me to get the hell outa here and I might just say "hell yea" and leave cause that would be one hell of a reaction. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyone here know what the hell I'm talking about cause I sure as hell don't.

[jagman]

Hell is the Grave. We know nothing, We feel nothing, We may dream but
We are not in pain we are not conscious but we still exist. at least that what
Lazarus said except the dreaming part but i imagine we do dream. I think
we are at peace. IMO

[earthdreamer]

Hell is pollution.
Hell is drought.
Hell is war, nuclear devastation, radiation poisoning.
Hell is thirst and no clean water.
Hell is gridlock.
Hell is self-hate.


It is possible to experience hell, even if you're a "good" person. Since the Soul can feel one's self outside of Time, Eternity is always near, E-T-E-R-N-I-T-Y is hell waiting for Love to stop it.

[heyokah]

Ah what the hell, I was just going to breeze over this discussion since I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about, but hell, I felt this is one hell of a subject and I'd join in just for the hell of it.

But, why in the hell should I do that when all hell could break loose depending on the hellish things I might say, so some one might respond if I join in, "like hell you will" and I might just respond "What the hell did you just say?" I might just then run like hell and not come back till hell freezes over. Why the hell not?

You might just tell me to get the hell outa here and I might just say "hell yea" and leave cause that would be one hell of a reaction. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyone here know what the hell I'm talking about cause I sure as hell don't.

Grip, since I'm not a native English speaker, I thank you for teaching me some more English here.
Just now you showed me that Hell is the same as Fu*k....... and a Fu*k really exists. So Hell must exist too.
:ohwell: Ehh, yeh, well. Am I making a silly twist now?

[araucaria]

Ah what the hell, I was just going to breeze over this discussion since I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about, but hell, I felt this is one hell of a subject and I'd join in just for the hell of it.

But, why in the hell should I do that when all hell could break loose depending on the hellish things I might say, so some one might respond if I join in, "like hell you will" and I might just respond "What the hell did you just say?" I might just then run like hell and not come back till hell freezes over. Why the hell not?

You might just tell me to get the hell outa here and I might just say "hell yea" and leave cause that would be one hell of a reaction. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyone here know what the hell I'm talking about cause I sure as hell don't.

Grip, since I'm not a native English speaker, I thank you for teaching me some more English here.
Just now you showed me that Hell is the same as Fu*k....... and a Fu*k really exists. So Hell must exist too.
:ohwell: Ehh, yeh, well. Am I making a silly twist now?


If that’s the way you feel, heyokah :) then you need to watch this vid, and maybe follow a couple of links:

well, remember to...

92i5m3tV5XY


Ahhh... soulbalm.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=977455&viewfull=1#post977455
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83503-Pre-emptive-good-bye-and-thanks-so-much&p=979879&viewfull=1#post979879

[heyokah]

Ah what the hell, I was just going to breeze over this discussion since I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about, but hell, I felt this is one hell of a subject and I'd join in just for the hell of it.

But, why in the hell should I do that when all hell could break loose depending on the hellish things I might say, so some one might respond if I join in, "like hell you will" and I might just respond "What the hell did you just say?" I might just then run like hell and not come back till hell freezes over. Why the hell not?

You might just tell me to get the hell outa here and I might just say "hell yea" and leave cause that would be one hell of a reaction. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyone here know what the hell I'm talking about cause I sure as hell don't.

Grip, since I'm not a native English speaker, I thank you for teaching me some more English here.
Just now you showed me that Hell is the same as Fu*k....... and a Fu*k really exists. So Hell must exist too.
:ohwell: Ehh, yeh, well. Am I making a silly twist now?


If that’s the way you feel, heyokah :) then you need to watch this vid, and maybe follow a couple of links:

well, remember to...

92i5m3tV5XY


Ahhh... soulbalm.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=977455&viewfull=1#post977455
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83503-Pre-emptive-good-bye-and-thanks-so-much&p=979879&viewfull=1#post979879

Hey, I just felt the fu*king nonsence float away.... :becky:

One link for you #45853
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=977325&viewfull=1#post977325

[araucaria]

One link for you #45853
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=977325&viewfull=1#post977325
Thanks, yes. That is "chicken Buddhism" as in "the chicken Qabala (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=795467&viewfull=1#post795467)":