For or Against accepting refugees from Syria??

[Malgorzata]

I am posting this as I have seen a tremendous amount of hate and bigotry among Polish people (I am from Poland) concerning the taking in of the Syrian refugees. People there are scared of Islamization, violence and destruction that might come from that. I was shocked to see that almost 90% of population is against taking them in. To be honest, as I told in one of the Polish forums, I am more afraid for the Syrians´ safety in Poland now, than for Polish people being ¨invaded by the destructive Muslims¨.

Now, my own personal opinion is that notwithstanding what might happens, we SHOULD accept them whenever our country´s economic situation allows it, as our primary human responsbility towards another human being is to help. No matter what. We will deal with the consequences later, if any. Now all I see is people in dire need of help. It doesnt matter to me they are Muslims. We cant be driven by fear, which, as we know, is mostly programmed in us by media.

What do YOU think? I respect Avalon Community so I am curious to see what your opinions are.

[Lasuh]

I think any country that is capable of helping refugees should accept them, but I also think that people should stop running and stand together and face the enemy of mankind, our only weakness that we do not have enough courage to stay united against the negative force.

[Pilgrim]

Majority of so called refugees are not really war refugees. They are mostly economical migrants who seek for advantages of social system and benefits in EU countries. There is a clear legislation in EU which they can use very simply when applying for a status of war refugees. They would be granted then via official channels. However, those people (not only Syrians, there are much more many nationalities present among those crowds) are forcing themselves to enter EU countries violating many different laws without any recognition or respect to domestic legal system, situation, people or countries. They simply don´t care of those. They stream to most generous social system countries - Germany, Sweden, Denmark, UK and Finland. Nevertheless, they already crossed many countries where the situation is peaceful, normal, stable or without any violent environment. Where they could stay and seek for status of war refugees. They would be accommodated there the without any problems. Although, they don't...

I am in opinion that the whole situation is not normal neither natural. It is sophistically planned and orchestrated event with logistics, finances and goals behind. This is the event to destabilize Europe, divide EU countries among themselves, weaken EU economically, deepen social problems in respective countries and more or mainly to change legislation in EU to get less democracy for their citizens at the end (problem-solution trick). When you have a look at recent months there is still such a passivity and empty talks among EU representations and EC without real actions which make one quite wonder what is really going on.

No surprise Visegrad countries are reluctant to obey dictated measures from Brussels, Germany and France. I do understand why is that.

Further on, there are many groups which benefit on situation of migrants robbing them of large sums of money when smuggling them in EU. However, without permission superpowers or PTB that would not occur in this way. The whole situation is quite weird. However, when you look at larger picture and filling dots you would find why is that.

Frankly, I have my concerns regarding the future of EU too. Mass media propaganda which is on-going currently everywhere reminds me communistic propaganda in old socialistic times. I ma not really joking. That is the fact. Who expresses his/her concerns or opinion is labelled immediately as chauvinist, xenophobes, islamophobs and I don't know which other phobias they would find against normal people reasoning, using intelligence, common sense and instinct.

Talking about real war refugees, yes, they deserve help, safety of EU and social support. Those who are eligible they should be welcome as those they do. However, there is much more behind that story.

For instance - rich Gulf Countries - close culturally due to religion don´t accept them - why is that?

IMHO there is nefarious motive behind whole thing to export violence, cultural conflicts, state terrorism in order to destabilize Europe. Regarding poor people - PTB abuse their situation to conduct
that.

[Malgorzata]

I am in opinion that the whole situation is not normal neither natural. It is sophistically planned and orchestrated event with logistics, finances and goals behind.

Who is it planned by? I mean, there are false flag operations regarding Islam being en enemy. Who is planning this event now then and why?

All is becoming a bit too complex for me and tricky, what is real and what is not..All I see is fellow humans in need of help, the conspiracies behind the curtain aside. Am I being naive wanting to help them? We have complicated it all so much with politics and war games.

[Deega]

Thanks Malgorzata, for human sake, the creators (US, Saudis, Qatar, Britain, some Europe Nations) of the Wars in Syria, Iraq, Lybia, Afghanistan should somehow be held responsible (shelter, training while adaptation, etc) for the refugees, but the Geographic condition guide Refugees to go nearest States they can.

Poland would be an example State receiving Refugees, but they should send a bill to the above States for expenses incured taking care (basic needs, training, adaptation, etc.) of Refugees.

Fate of some Refugees are in the hand of Poland authorities, may the best happened to both Poles, and Refugees.

[Selkie]

...IMHO there is nefarious motive behind whole thing to export violence, cultural conflicts, state terrorism in order to destabilize Europe. Regarding poor people - PTB abuse their situation to conduct
that.

I think this ^^^ is it, in a nutshell.


...Who expresses his/her concerns or opinion is labelled immediately as chauvinist, xenophobes, islamophobs and I don't know which other phobias they would find against normal people reasoning, using intelligence, common sense and instinct.

I also think this ^^^ is right on.

I mean, look at the OP,


I am posting this as I have seen a tremendous amount of hate and bigotry among Polish people (I am from Poland) concerning the taking in of the Syrian refugees. People there are scared of Islamization, violence and destruction that might come from that...

(my emphasis)

As if the Poles could not possibly have any rational reasons for not wanting the Syrians, as if the only reason they do not want them is because the Poles are bigots, etc. Time will tell if the Syrian refugees are willing to integrate themselves into the mainstream of European society, or whether non-Muslim European women will have to live in fear of rape, etc.

So long story short, I am an American (and so this subject has not touched me personally** yet) but I am with you, Pilgrim. I see this tidal wave of immigrants as a tool to destabilize the heart of Europe, not to mention that there are undoubtedly plenty of ISIS fighters, whose job it will be to create mayhem in Europe, hidden among the refugees, for which the refugees will be blamed.

** The ISIS map, labeled Islamic Caliphate 2019, shows that ISIS has drawn a bead on the northeastern parts of Canada and the United States.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-t5UuXQR0IMw/VTn-S_VoibI/AAAAAAAAA8g/n2iSUbRMdjE/s1600/isisinvasion.jpg

[Malgorzata]

Ok, but lets dig digger. This doesnt answer the question, WHO IS planning this to destabilize Europe? The ISIS guys themselves? But I thought the whole war was of the American-European product to have an excuse to invade THEIR land? So are you saying they are now using this war, invented and fueled by US-Europe Illuminati, to conquer Europe now? Somehow Im missing the plot. I repeat: WHO IS planning to destabilize Europe?

[ghostrider]

I say help where you can ... the ET's say no way ... instead of fixing your country , you just run to another's country , live off their resources , in a country you didn't help build or sustain ( their thoughts not mine ) ...they view it as giving up your personal responsibility for your country in which you were born ... when good people just run away , bad things happen for everyone ...

[Malgorzata]

Where are the ETs saying that?

[Selkie]

Ok, but lets dig digger. This doesnt answer the question, WHO IS planning this to destabilize Europe? The ISIS guys themselves? But I thought the whole war was of the American-European product to have an excuse to invade THEIR land? So are you saying they are now using this war, invented and fueled by US-Europe Illuminati, to conquer Europe now? Somehow Im missing the plot. I repeat: WHO IS planning to destabilize Europe?

You're kidding, right?

[Lifebringer]

I'm thinking the bigotry level is too high at this time in this country, and that alone would make them uncomfortable in that climate, after being invaded by US ME policy that started this mess in the 1st place. Identifying them would be feasible, but the bigotry and fear of Muslim extremists would probably get them labeled as an ISIS cell by our paranoid extremist, and tormented by the populace on the" right-wing media viewership," for ratings.

I think the billionaire has the right idea, to buy an island to give them shelter and tools to presume a peaceful as close to normal life again. They have all suffered enough and they are citizens already skilled in business, medical field, and construction. So let them restart their lives on a safe island, with oversight, by UN and the nation allowing them sanctuary. That is the best as the cultural differences "at this time" will add to more woes. WE can participate in the buying of the island with the EU nations that participated, however, trying to convert them to Christianity at the point of a gun, is not good.(Hungary) Showing them the ways of Christ is better. Showing is always better than just talking about it. God does it and we need to start that practice of just doing what needs to be done together in unity.

[Lifebringer]

Didn't EU ditch the Central banks for the new "BRICS ASIAN DEVELOPEMENT BANK?"
Could be the reason the are attacking former allies with sense enough to jump ship and save their soul as whistleblowers. I bet those who are responsible for this matrix are crapping their pants for what's to come. Some wishing they would have passed on by now.

[WhiteLove]

The word "Syria", is just an unnecessary label. The word "country", is just an unnecessary label. The words "land", "immigrant" and "refugee" are also unnecessary labels. The word "US", "EU" etc. are also unnecessary labels. It's all a world of labels to help structure and control the thinking patterns and behaviors of the masses. True freedom is about moving freely. True freedom is about together harnessing free energy. True freedom is about coming together as one - everybody are equally unlimited and happy. From that unlimited point of view, what is called immigration rules, borders, patriotism, division, separation, war, violence that's just stuff for people that are stubborn and ego driven enough to be asleep.

So the answer to the question is. Of course yes. Let the borders of the nations fall, let the people's diversity be harmonized, let's mix really well and then take over the planet as one people in peace. I have experienced such a place, and it's fantastic when that peace and truth exists, you no longer need to communicate with words, your communication takes place using emotions. Nothing is hidden and false, all interaction is felt through emotional communication in truth and in that peaceful state of being your greatest dreams come true because everything synchronizes once the truth releases the false. The depth, beauty and emotion of that kind of life is incredible!!

[Malgorzata]

You're kidding, right? No. Why? WHO are you referring to REALLY, when you say THEY are trying to destabilize Europe? Im just asking cause the plot seems to escape me.

[Malgorzata]

I'm thinking the bigotry level is too high at this time in this country, and that alone would make them uncomfortable in that climate, after being invaded by US ME policy that started this mess in the 1st place. Identifying them would be feasible, but the bigotry and fear of Muslim extremists would probably get them labeled as an ISIS cell by our paranoid extremist, and tormented by the populace on the" right-wing media viewership," for ratings.

I think the billionaire has the right idea, to buy an island to give them shelter and tools to presume a peaceful as close to normal life again. They have all suffered enough and they are citizens already skilled in business, medical field, and construction. So let them restart their lives on a safe island, with oversight, by UN and the nation allowing them sanctuary. That is the best as the cultural differences "at this time" will add to more woes. WE can participate in the buying of the island with the EU nations that participated, however, trying to convert them to Christianity at the point of a gun, is not good.(Hungary) Showing them the ways of Christ is better. Showing is always better than just talking about it. God does it and we need to start that practice of just doing what needs to be done together in unity.

This idea is not bad at all, not sure how feasible it would be when put to practice but yes. In short, the way I feel it in the essence of my heart, we cant be driven by fear and politics when trying to decide whether to let them in or not. My love for humanity´s ESSENCE is unconditional and my responsibility to alleviate their suffering is principal even if it means possibly altering ¨negatively¨ the course of European affairs in the future. As rationally as I try to view it all with all the mental arguments of this war(s)´ politics (read: virtual game), my heart just tells me ACCEPT them. No less no more. Simply that. Call me naive. :ohwell:

[Malgorzata]

The word "Syria", is just an unnecessary label. The word "country", is just an unnecessary label. The words "land", "immigrant" and "refugee" are also unnecessary labels. The word "US", "EU" etc. are also unnecessary labels. It's all a world of labels to help structure and control the thinking patterns and behaviors of the masses. True freedom is about moving freely. True freedom is about together harnessing free energy. True freedom is about coming together as one - everybody are equally unlimited and happy. From that unlimited point of view, what is called immigration rules, borders, patriotism, division, separation, war, violence that's just stuff for people that are stubborn and ego driven enough to be asleep.

So the answer to the question is. Of course yes. Let the borders of the nations fall, let the people's diversity be harmonized, let's mix really well and then take over the planet as one people in peace. I have experienced such a place, and it's fantastic when that peace and truth exists, you no longer need to communicate with words, your communication takes place using emotions. Nothing is hidden and false, all interaction is felt through emotional communication in truth and in that peaceful state of being your greatest dreams come true because everything synchronizes once the truth releases the false. The depth, beauty and emotion of that kind of life is incredible!!

MY FEELINGS EXACTLY! I am so gald someone feels the same THANK YOU! :flower:When I think about this whole mess I feel this precisely. Its ALL absurd and I dont understand ANY of this. Politics, wars, borders, separations, labels, fears,....I cant explain but its like all of these concepts are completely foreign to me and I cant grasp any of it! I KNOW there are other ways of existence. And yes, I know it sounds utopian and its not how things are right now at this three dimensional strange planet, but hey...I didnt come here at this time to adapt to it! I came to assist with the changes! And participating in fear/separation mentality is certainly not it. No matter what. I just cant.

[Selkie]

You're kidding, right? No. Why? WHO are you referring to REALLY, when you say THEY are trying to destabilize Europe? Im just asking cause the plot seems to escape me.

Then you should go back and review the material. That way you will understand it, even if you disagree with the conclusions that Pilgrim and I (and others) have drawn from it.

[Tesseract]

I think people ought to consider the fact that Syria has a commendable history of accepting refugees from the region, mostly Iraqis, Palestinians and Lebanese. All from different religions and branches of religions, which gives the lie to the claim that the Syrian government is and has been sectarian in nature. In recent times the number of refugees in Syria was well over 1 million, most of them fleeing the war in Iraq. If Syria hadn't absorbed these people, the next stop would have been Europe, in fact it would have been trivial for the Syrian government to usher them through to Europe, given Syria's access to the Mediterranean sea and the Turkish border. So its kind of a slap in the face for Syrians not to be accepted when they seek mercy themselves in a time of need. And when the west decided to destabilise Syria, where did they think the people would go? Iraq, Libya, Syria - all once prosperous secular states, have been wrecked by foreign interference. Where did they think the people would go, the congo?


The Syrians should be accepted into Europe, because the danger of staying in Syria is extremely high. There are some countries where people may try and exaggerate the danger in order to secure a place abroad, but for Syria the danger is clearly real. The people need to be bought to safety immediately, the discussion of what to do long term can then begin. Ironically many of the right wing folks of Europe that most strongly oppose acceptance of refugees will inevitably vote for the very people who destabilise the middle east and create the refugee problem.

[Malgorzata]

Ironically many of the right wing folks of Europe that most strongly oppose acceptance of refugees will inevitably vote for the very people who destabilise the middle east and create the refugee problem.

Thats exactly what originated my question above: who is really doing the destabilization of Europe by the ¨Islamic invasion of refugees¨? The western countries (US/Europe) were behind the destabilization of Middle East in the first place, to then this dominoeing into destabilization of Europe? Its very ironic indeed. Thats why it didnt seem right to me. I WILL review your ¨material¨ again Selkie. Its possible I didnt understand something there for sure (given I dont understand politics almost at all). Tesseract, great observation in general and my thoughts exactly also! :) :handshake:

[Malgorzata]

Then you should go back and review the material. That way you will understand it, even if you disagree with the conclusions that Pilgrim and I (and others) have drawn from it.

Ok Selkie, I reviewed it back and dont see anything about WHO is trying to destabilize Europe? Are you referring to Muslims themselves or someone else behind them? :twitch:

[Selkie]

Then you should go back and review the material. That way you will understand it, even if you disagree with the conclusions that Pilgrim and I (and others) have drawn from it.

Ok Selkie, I reviewed it back and dont see anything about WHO is trying to destabilize Europe? Are you referring to Muslims themselves or someone else behind them? :twitch:

Surely you cannot be ignorant of the backstory to the immigrant crisis. :twitch: , indeed.

[Malgorzata]

If I was all knowing I wouldnt be here right? I AM pretty ignorant of many facts, I dont follow politics, and no shame to admit that, I already said that above. Are you going to help me understand whats going on or just bask in your all knowingness? :focus:

[Selkie]

If I was all knowing I wouldnt be here right? I AM pretty ignorant of many facts, I dont follow politics, and no shame to admit that, I already said that above. Are you going to help me understand whats going on or just bask in your all knowingness? :focus:

I am not basking in anything. I am trying to get you to investigate the backstory for yourself.

p.s. If you read my post, then you must realize there is a huge backstory to all of this that deserves investigation.

[giovonni]

Then you should go back and review the material. That way you will understand it, even if you disagree with the conclusions that Pilgrim and I (and others) have drawn from it.

Ok Selkie, I reviewed it back and dont see anything about WHO is trying to destabilize Europe? Are you referring to Muslims themselves or someone else behind them? :twitch:

Surely you cannot be ignorant of the backstory to the immigrant crisis. :twitch: , indeed.

a very viable culprit ...

“Greater Israel”: The Zionist Plan for the Middle East (http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815)

[ghostrider]

Where are the ETs saying that?

the Plejaren , who visit Edward Meier in Switzerland almost every Sunday as they are working on the book of names ... Edjana comes every Sunday and they are working on 12,000 names man and woman and their meanings ... it's not in the contact notes but , they talk about it in the documentary film , As the Time Fulfills ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogpandrwS0

[Malgorzata]

If I was all knowing I wouldnt be here right? I AM pretty ignorant of many facts, I dont follow politics, and no shame to admit that, I already said that above. Are you going to help me understand whats going on or just bask in your all knowingness? :focus:

I am not basking in anything. I am trying to get you to investigate the backstory for yourself.

p.s. If you read my post, then you must realize there is a huge backstory to all of this that deserves investigation.

Exactly right and thats why I am here as a part of my investigative efforts. I thought this forum was for that? As i just voted in the WHY ARE YOU ON AVALON, I see the majority is here to LEARN too. Ok, moving on. Lets see what other members think about the topic. Peace. :)

[Selkie]

If I was all knowing I wouldnt be here right? I AM pretty ignorant of many facts, I dont follow politics, and no shame to admit that, I already said that above. Are you going to help me understand whats going on or just bask in your all knowingness? :focus:

I am not basking in anything. I am trying to get you to investigate the backstory for yourself.

p.s. If you read my post, then you must realize there is a huge backstory to all of this that deserves investigation.

Exactly right and thats why I am here as a part of my investigative efforts. I thought this forum was for that? As i just voted in the WHY ARE YOU ON AVALON, I see the majority is here to LEARN too. Ok, moving on. Lets see what other members think about the topic. Peace. :)

Oh, well then, you are aware of the backstory. I thought so.

[Malgorzata]

Where are the ETs saying that?

the Plejaren , who visit Edward Meier in Switzerland almost every Sunday as they are working on the book of names ... Edjana comes every Sunday and they are working on 12,000 names man and woman and their meanings ... it's not in the contact notes but , they talk about it in the documentary film , As the Time Fulfills ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogpandrwS0

Thank you. I bookmarked the video and will check it out. Something though is telling me I am not sure the ETs would really get involved as much as to ADVISE to stay in ¨to fight for your country¨. It wouldnt sound like an advanced race? As far as I am feeling it, they dont focus on what divides us. I will check out the video though. :)

[Malgorzata]

Oh, well then, you are aware of the backstory. I thought so.

I am aware of bits and pieces of it...just reading David Icke´s latest book where he talks about some of it. Its all very complicated for me though and it seems there are agendas behind agendas behind agendas mixing with other agendas behind agendas. And the principal truth of my heart, behind all the game just tells me: HELP them as they are suffering. Thats the bottom line for me I think.

[giovonni]

somemore ...


The Richie Allen Show

On What The Migrant/Refugee Crisis Is Really All About ?

Published on Sep 4, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu2VTw2atdE

[Selkie]

Oh, well then, you are aware of the backstory. I thought so.

I am aware of bits and pieces of it...just reading David Icke´s latest book where he talks about some of it. Its all very complicated for me though and it seems there are agendas behind agendas behind agendas mixing with other agendas behind agendas. And the principal truth of my heart, behind all the game just tells me: HELP them as they are suffering. Thats the bottom line for me I think.

I feel for them, too, you know. But they are being exploited. They were made to suffer in the first place so that they could be exploited. And people with good hearts who want to help are being exploited.

[Malgorzata]

Thank you! Two videos bookmarked. :) Yes Selkie I do have a feeling they are being exploited in some strange occult way but my heart still tells me: they suffer, I want to alleviate it. Am I giving in to the ruthlessly preprogrammed trap? I dont know. Maybe. There is a part of me that just doesnt care though and wants to help nonetheless. Hmmm....

[Selkie]

Thank you! Two videos bookmarked. :) Yes Selkie I do have a feeling they are being exploited in some strange occult way but my heart still tells me: they suffer, I want to alleviate it. Am I giving in to the ruthlessly preprogrammed trap? I dont know. Maybe. There is a part of me that just doesnt care though and wants to help nonetheless. Hmmm....

The problem is, if you help the immigrants, you are playing into the hands the people who drove them out of their country in the first place. The Syrian refugees, minus any ISIS sleepers, are being used as pawns in a game high-stakes international chess.

[Malgorzata]

So how would you help them not giving in to this plan at the same time? Any ideas? Thats why I ask what IS the exact plan in the first place and WHO is planning it, to know what the next move should be exactly. Helping them in some way though MUST be a part of that move.

[ghostrider]

Where are the ETs saying that?

the Plejaren , who visit Edward Meier in Switzerland almost every Sunday as they are working on the book of names ... Edjana comes every Sunday and they are working on 12,000 names man and woman and their meanings ... it's not in the contact notes but , they talk about it in the documentary film , As the Time Fulfills ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogpandrwS0

Thank you. I bookmarked the video and will check it out. Something though is telling me I am not sure the ETs would really get involved as much as to ADVISE to stay in ¨to fight for your country¨. It wouldnt sound like an advanced race? As far as I am feeling it, they dont focus on what divides us. I will check out the video though. :)

their whole agenda for coming here for the last 13,500 years and most recent since 1975 , to get us Earth humans to be responsible for our thoughts , actions , and feelings ... to take charge of our world and make it better ...

[Selkie]

Thats why I ask what IS the exact plan in the first place and WHO is planning it, to know what the next move should be exactly.

No one knows that except the people at the very top of the game.


...Helping them in some way though MUST be a part of that move.

edited: If you want to help them, no one is preventing you. Are you taking personal responsibility? Are you sending them money; would you go to Germany and help them get settled? Would you take a Syrian family into your home in Spain?

[Pilgrim]

I am working currently at Balkans. I can see when travelling around large groups of migrants here since there is one of these 2 main routes which they use here. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds each day walking around freely as no real government of regional countries exist. Isn´t that a bit suspicious? Isn´t that odd? We are talking about European countries where the law is exercised, governments in place, all offices working daily normally...

What is striking though is the fact (seeing on my own eyes) 99.99 % of them are young men, age between 15-35, looking strong, well dressed, well equipped and not completely poor since seeing them paying by cash or credit cards at gas stations. In fact, I have not seen any elderly persons among them, no children, very few women. At some places it can be different, of course, there are some women and children on the way too, however, not in such numbers which you would expect or media report. I am talking about events which I witness(ed).

Wouldn´t be expected that all these young men, wandering around, would rather defend their families, their villages, their beloved, fighting against barbarism and "middle age militant philosophy", fighting for the cause of their countries' freedom, democracy, human rights, peace, prosperity, future and civilized modern society?

Are there any ISIS fighters infiltrating among migrants into EU? Of course, they do (many Intel agencies and officers warn of that however political elite strangely don´t listen to). This is one of intentions of ISIS and PTB who created the whole situation at Syria. Are they coming to EU to integrate, expend their mind, learn about European culture and accept way of life of local people? Answer yourselves...

Remember, G. Bush Junior words at begging of millennium (not citing completely, my own paraphrase): "We have several countries and their regimes on our list at Middle East, North Africa and else where which we going to invade and change". Syria was one of them. You observe current reality which events had been pre-planned long time ago. Nevertheless, there are definitely more players involved in Syria war story. Many threads on the forum are dedicated to that background. I advise to do some research here in the Forum while using your reason and intuition to capture the core of it.

On making "good" or "saving world" and welcome everyone with "open hearts" I would advise to be a little bit cautious by pointing out: Marxists and Leninists wanted to do also so much good for their own people building socialism - millions and millions died, other millions and millions or even whole nations were supressed for long period of time...

Future will only tell us, however, before that happen: we can still learn from hard made mistakes from our own history to prevent another European conflict by exercising intelligence, knowledge, common sense and intuition.

I don´t disregard spiritual aspects of the whole thing, I can see that, however, we should see things as they are. For instance" if there is fire on the roof of your house I guess we would not pry only, asking God for help, staying passively in, we would likely go and try to extinguish flames by ourselves or calling fire-fighters or neighbours to help us to save our house in order to prevent fire spreading and other houses would caught fire...

[Shannon]

It's scary that people are so quick to run than be ready to fight. This happened how? years in the making I guess, but I just can't see people giving up like this...

Pilgrim, your post (the first part) disturbs me. Thanks for bringing that up though. I feel like molgorzata and want to help because their are people suffering...it's just so frustrating.

[Selkie]

It's scary that people are so quick to run than be ready to fight. This happened how? years in the making I guess, but I just can't see people giving up like this...

Pilgrim, your post (the first part) disturbs me. Thanks for bringing that up though. I feel like molgorzata and want to help because their are people suffering...it's just so frustrating.

I know...it is a terrible ethical dilemma. There are innocent people suffering.

But don't forget what Pilgrim posted here,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85205-For-or-Against-accepting-refugees-from-Syria&p=998366&viewfull=1#post998366

Quote Pilgrim:
"What is striking though is the fact (seeing on my own eyes) 99.99 % of them are young men, age between 15-35, looking strong, well dressed, well equipped and not completely poor since seeing them paying by cash or credit cards at gas stations. In fact, I have not seen any elderly persons among them, no children, very few women. At some places it can be different, of course, there are some women and children on the way too, however, not in such numbers which you would expect or media report. I am talking about events which I witness(ed)."


This, alone, should make people very suspicious that something is afoot, and that the situation is not nearly as obvious as it seems.

[Malgorzata]

...Helping them in some way though MUST be a part of that move.

edited: If you want to help them, no one is preventing you. Are you taking personal responsibility? Are you sending them money; would you go to Germany and help them get settled? Would you take a Syrian family into your home in Spain?

Funny you mentioned that as I just had this conversation with my boyfriend last night telling him how I wish I could take a family in! I would love to do that! The problem is I have zero money and barely surviving myself. :(

[Malgorzata]

Wouldn´t be expected that all these young men, wandering around, would rather defend their families, their villages, their beloved, fighting against barbarism and "middle age militant philosophy", fighting for the cause of their countries' freedom, democracy, human rights, peace, prosperity, future and civilized modern society?

Great commentary Pilgrim..just not sure I can totally agree with this one. No one but no one should be held responsible, morally or otherwise, to participate in the cruelty of war. Neither children, nor women, nor men. They are not even the ones who are really fighting this war, its the guys behind the curtain, let THEM do the dirty job. So I am not blaming them for fleeding. That there are so many young and healthy ones there, paying with cards though and seeming doing well, thats quite baffling for sure.

[Selkie]

...Helping them in some way though MUST be a part of that move.

edited: If you want to help them, no one is preventing you. Are you taking personal responsibility? Are you sending them money; would you go to Germany and help them get settled? Would you take a Syrian family into your home in Spain?

Funny you mentioned that as I just had this conversation with my boyfriend last night telling him how I wish I could take a family in! I would love to do that! The problem is I have zero money and barely surviving myself. :(

Well, then, can you see the problem with saying that "we" should do "something", and that "something" "must" be done? If you are in that position, don't you think that a great majority of the people of Europe are in the same straits? Especially after "austerity" has been imposed upon so many for so long?

http://www.wildmind.org/blogs/on-practice/idiot-compassion

[Selkie]

Wouldn´t be expected that all these young men, wandering around, would rather defend their families, their villages, their beloved, fighting against barbarism and "middle age militant philosophy", fighting for the cause of their countries' freedom, democracy, human rights, peace, prosperity, future and civilized modern society?

Great commentary Pilgrim..just not sure I can totally agree with this one. No one but no one should be held responsible, morally or otherwise, to participate in the cruelty of war. Neither children, nor women, nor men. They are not even the ones who are really fighting this war, its the guys behind the curtain, let THEM do the dirty job. So I am not blaming them for fleeding. That there are so many young and healthy ones there, paying with cards though and seeming doing well, thats quite baffling for sure.

Actually, its not "baffling" at all, in light of the backstory.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85205-For-or-Against-accepting-refugees-from-Syria&p=998326&viewfull=1#post998326

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85205-For-or-Against-accepting-refugees-from-Syria&p=998335&viewfull=1#post998335

[Malgorzata]

Yes, but I am an individual person with REALLY no means to support one of those families. Countries as a whole do have the means to take in some or do ¨something¨. They do without a doubt. And I am sure those families what they mostly need is to be safe at the moment. They are not asking for a lot, just want to live (at least for now). Thanks for the links. Will look at them.

[Selkie]

...Countries as a whole do have the means to take in some or do ¨something¨...

That isn't necessarily true. I would bet that in order to support so many immigrants, countries would have to borrow to do it, and get themselves even further in debt to the Cabal than they already are. What that means is that their citizens would be on the hook for the money, and even further austerities would be imposed upon them in the future.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

[joeecho]

Displaced refuges are no doubt part of the ongoing plan for a one world government.

The funny thing about a one world government.....

In a one world government there are TWO and ultimately opposing worlds, the government and the people.

[Selkie]

Displaced refuges are no doubt part of the ongoing plan for a one world government...

Yes, and they always have been. For example, during the Vietnam War, the U.S. actually airlifted, sealifted and otherwise "assisted" more than 1,000,000 North Vietnamese into South Vietnam, which at that time was a village economy with nowhere to house or employ them...forcing them to steal, etc., in order to survive...and then called them "insurgents", which gave the U.S. a pretext to invade.

[joeecho]

The refuge 'problem' forces the general populous to focus on the humanitarian needs of a suffering people instead or the root cause.

[Heartsong]

In looking at the "Syrian" immigration problem I've also wondered about the thousands of North Africans who have drowned trying to get to Spain. Boatloads have sunk. Few have been successful. This has been going on for several years yet there is little press coverage in the U.S. There has been no outcry at all. Could this be because these people are black?

[Selkie]

In looking at the "Syrian" immigration problem I've also wondered about the thousands of North Africans who have drowned trying to get to Spain. Boatloads have sunk. Few have been successful. This has been going on for several years yet there is little press coverage in the U.S. There has been no outcry at all. Could this be because these people are black?

I think its because NATO would prefer to start WW III in central Europe. If the Cabal (or the PTB, or whatever one wants to call them) had an immediate use for those deaths, they would be trumpeting them from the roof-tops, you can be sure.

[bogeyman]

These so called refugees are a multitude of different peoples, ranging from genuinely desperate, criminals, terrorists, economic migrates and many others types. You also have to take into consideration that some make carry high infectious diseases, including food products which could effect that crops in the countries they are eventually going to settle into. If we allow too many, people are going to risk the journey to come to Europe, because we are encouraging them. Do we have the resources to cope with all the problems they bring with them....no frankly.

[Malgorzata]

The refuge 'problem' forces the general populous to focus on the humanitarian needs of a suffering people instead or the root cause.

The root cause for sure needs to be looked at, without a doubt, its buried so deeply though down the rabbit hole. The humanitarian needs to be addressed always, along with the root cause.

[Malgorzata]

Looking at all the comments here, I am glad at least that there are some people who are reluctant to help not because ¨these people are muslim and bring along violence, rape and islamization¨, the argument the majority of Polish people resort to blindly, but because the more complex chess game is being perceived. At least we have a talk of Qabal. On Polish forums its all just ¨Muslims are bad and will rape you at night¨ sort of arguing back and forth. They have no clue. :/

[Selkie]

Looking at all the comments here, I am glad at least that there are some people who are reluctant to help not because ¨these people are muslim and bring along violence, rape and islamization¨, the argument the majority of Polish people resort to blindly, but because the more complex chess game is being perceived. At least we have a talk of Qabal. On Polish forums its all just ¨Muslims are bad and will rape you at night¨ sort of arguing back and forth. They have no clue. :/

Well, that is convenient for those who would like to turn a very complex situation, with many ramifications, into a simple black-or-white issue.

[joeecho]

The refuge 'problem' forces the general populous to focus on the humanitarian needs of a suffering people instead or the root cause.

The root cause for sure needs to be looked at, without a doubt, its buried so deeply though down the rabbit hole. The humanitarian needs to be addressed always, along with the root cause.

I agree in empathy but on the flip side the PTB know that attention is a limiting resource.

Kind of like when masterminds plan a big heist. The bigger the heist the bigger the distractions from that heist have to be.

[Shannon]

I just listened to NBC nightly news and they made it sound really bad in Hungary and Serbia, because now with the fence and the border guards given the ok to use bullets if needed, there will be violence. If they're trying to make people scared it's working. :/...

[Lost N Found]

All very good responses, totally agree about this is just or not about syrian refugees. We see in the MSM that America is or has not taken any refugees. Wait just a minute there folks We are receiving thousands and thousands of refugees across our borders from the south on a daily basis and who is paying attention to that? They are also coming in from the Northern Borders. So what do we do? Well I do agree with somewhat of what I read, the US Inc has created as well as the other criminal organizations, this mass problem of folks wanting to get out of the war zones. Geez, who is making all the money by doing what is happening around the world. Just saying who is not besides America not receiving refugees?

Now here is some very interesting information from another side of all of this.

http://removingtheshackles.blogspot.ca/2015/09/the-refugees-distraction-and-trojan.html

Saturday, 12 September 2015
The Refugees: Distraction and Trojan Horse
With so much focus on the Syrian/Libyan/war torn Middle East Refugee and "Migrant" situation that is being spun by the media, it is vital to dig through the stories, the bull**** and the point out the lies and see the spin doctored agendas and the propaganda that has been designed to distract and deceive.

Click on link and read the rest of this, I think Dani may have another very important view of this entire deal.`

[Malgorzata]

Thanks! Great read. And as it was stated in this article...we gotta look who is behind ISIS itself: ¨

Yes, it IS a "Trojan Horse", and yea.... you could say it is planned out by ISIS. but then you have to remind people WHO IS BEHIND ISIS!?!¨

I am sorry if I sound ignorant. I kind of am. Who is behind ISIS and why?

[yuhui]

Hi Malgorzata~There is a thread here where you might find some answers, I think:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85140-The-ISIS-Conspiracy-Origins-The-Creation-of-Israel-By-Brandon-Martinez-on-Red-Ice-Radio

[Malgorzata]

Thank you!

[Aviator]

I am in opinion that the whole situation is not normal neither natural. It is sophistically planned and orchestrated event with logistics, finances and goals behind.

I agree 100%. The so called wars in Syria, Iraq, Libya etc. have been created from outside. They are part of an agenda running on a much bigger level with the final goal to enslave this planet completely. The huge floods of refugees to Europe are organized to destroy national power and remove strong nation states within Europe.


It is a war created by the cabal against all people of this planet. All other factors like different religions, beliefs, economic status etc. is just used to support conflicts among us.

[Carmody]

Order of operations:

Refugees from Syria: symptom.

Fascists, corporations and oligarchs, hiding in the backdrop ---who displaced them: Primary target and source point.

Lesson: Don't get lost in distractions. After a while you find that the trail of wounded and dying never ends, that the need to bandage wounds never ends.

Final analysis and action point: Go to the reason the wound appears, or you are wasting your time. You have to make a decision to go after the source point ....and move away from walking emotional circles around symptoms.

Observation: No major media ever talks about source points, they only speak of symptoms. If they speak as if they are talking of a given source point ... it is a distraction into their agenda, and it is layered and a partial truth (at best) that fits their agenda. This is the sad tale of such influences and power structures - for thousands of years.

Lesson: Don't read mainstream media, don't listen to mainstream media, and don't watch mainstream media.... it will distract you from fundamentals... into paths that end in the desires and directions of oligarchy.

I personally don't watch their shows ---None of their media, none of their entertainment. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

For almost 20 years now, and my head is 100-200-500% better for it.

One cannot claim their thought processes back ...when allowing such external input into a system which is essentially designed to be a hypnotic input system. A body data intake system... that takes things in subconsciously as a first order premise in design and operation.

Think Your Conscious Brain Directs Your Actions? Think Again (http://singularityhub.com/2015/08/02/think-your-conscious-brain-directs-your-actions-think-again/)

[sunpaw]

I welcome people, and I don't see them as symptoms, terrorists, part of a game, plan or a threat.

I see people who suffer right now, who are kept out, being starved, beaten, tear gassed, killed, men, women, children who walk from one hell through another, to pose a threat because they had the luck to be born at the wrong place, the wrong time, the wrong gender, the wrong age, the wrong physical appearance.
BECAUSE: where they come from terrorists go to or come from.
So even if they somehow make it to a place where they are welcomed or even born there - a lot of people around the world still see them as a threat, a terrorist.

I am aware views differ.
I will continue to welcome, help, share, protect. I feel inspired, at peace and even for my future as old person I see joy and bright.
So I will concentrate on that and continue to have people experience the same.
I did this before all those new people were on the move. If inspiration, peacefulness, happiness are wrong - then I don't know..

If welcoming and changing laws to give people sooner a chance for a normal life, giving them jobs, homes, displaying strong company policies against haters and discrimination is wrong and is bringing 'down' the EU - I am for a split rather than blocking out people and have them still starve, beaten up, tear gassed, sent back to be bombed and killed and continue with 'my life'.

I am grateful, very happy and proud that I live among people who care, help, share, protect.
I don't think kindness and being humane can be pretended nor triggered - so still if its a big trickery I am rather glad I got the opportunity to help and care and wished for everyone to survive and arrive than anything else.
Last year I was worried sick what I would/could do if shtf - and it came clearer I would stay to help people who need help and get help from people who care about me. Which my neighborhood already does. So its no difference where, how someone was born.
I hoped I never had to execute this - because it would mean terrible circumstances happened. However it arrived - and it is like I thought.
A community I like to live in - seeing stepping up like naturally.
So even in case of welcoming people brings war on the doorstep - I am sure we handle that, even the blame.
And by then I at least I know where not to go and what to expect of people.

[Octavusprime]

I feel that any country able to take in Syrian refugees has the responsibility to do so. Especially those countries who have helped to wage war in the middle east. The US has announced plans to take in 10,000 refugees and I know people in the US are freaking out. They fear that it will be used by ISIS terrorist to enter the country. This is valid point but I think the risks outweigh the rewards in this one. Anything that can be done to ensure they are truly in need and not trying to harm us should be explored. It's tough.

This makes me think of WW2 when the US was refusing to take in Jews running from persecution. It wasn't until the last year of the war that we finally started letting in refugees. By that point it was too late.

In the long term I think my country needs to take a more isolationist approach with regards to war. The whole strategy of arming rebels to overthrow governments has always back fired. Military weapons and gear always end up in the wrong hands and get turned on us. Of course that may be part of the plan all along. The people need to fight to rein in their warmongering governments but that is a discussion for a different time.

Cheers,

Octavusprime

[greybeard]

Germany reinstates border controls, scraps concession for Syrians


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/germany-reinstates-border-controls-minister-150935432.html#w3E7HwV



Germany is reinstating temporary border controls with immediate effect, Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said Sunday, as the country buckles under pressure from a record influx of refugees.

"The aim of this measure is to stop the current influx to Germany and to return to an orderly process," he said, as the city of Munich recorded an influx of 63,000 asylum seekers in two weeks.

"It is also urgently needed due to security reasons," the minister added.

Additionally, Berlin will no longer allow refugees to pick which European countries should host them, de Maiziere said Sunday, essentially reversing a measure that has sent record numbers of asylum seekers into Europe's top economy.

The asylum seekers must understand that "they cannot chose the states where they are seeking protection," he told reporters.

"Under current European rules, Germany is not the authority responsible for most of the asylum seekers, and the registration process stands for all member states in the future. That means that a member state should not only register but also carry out the asylum process," he added.

Under EU rules, the first country of entry is required to deal with the asylum seeker's request for protection. But Germany had earlier in practice waived the rule for Syrian refugees.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I feel for the refugees. But I also know the agenda. They want a central bank in Syria. It is one of the last countries without one. And they hate Assad - he must be on the wrong side of "the brothers'" little power struggle... Enlilites got Enki and his crowd on the run.

I cannot imagine what life in a war-torn country must be like, but my parents still duck at loud noises seventy years after the big war...it must be hell.

If I was young I would seek asylum too - or if I loved my country I would fight against the evil.

Europe cannot afford these migrants however, not financially or politically. Most of the countries are homogenous states of a single ethnicity. The migrants will disrupt the social order of these countries. They are not the USA or Canada - the mixing states of all ethnic backgrounds.

It is quite a pickle. Can't stop them from arriving, can't send them back, can't afford to keep them...

It again falls to the common man, to accept a little less, to pay a little more and put up with the inconvenience and the social unrest.

Just another dent in the status quo, I guess.

Yes, we have to take them, like it or not. Since we bombed the "Shiite" out of them, we got to take the refugees that we have caused. It is the ethical thing to do after the immoral act of bombing them back to the stone age.

[Shannon]

Germany reinstates border controls, scraps concession for Syrians


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/germany-reinstates-border-controls-minister-150935432.html#w3E7HwV



Germany is reinstating temporary border controls with immediate effect, Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said Sunday, as the country buckles under pressure from a record influx of refugees.

"The aim of this measure is to stop the current influx to Germany and to return to an orderly process," he said, as the city of Munich recorded an influx of 63,000 asylum seekers in two weeks.

"It is also urgently needed due to security reasons," the minister added.

Additionally, Berlin will no longer allow refugees to pick which European countries should host them, de Maiziere said Sunday, essentially reversing a measure that has sent record numbers of asylum seekers into Europe's top economy.

The asylum seekers must understand that "they cannot chose the states where they are seeking protection," he told reporters.

"Under current European rules, Germany is not the authority responsible for most of the asylum seekers, and the registration process stands for all member states in the future. That means that a member state should not only register but also carry out the asylum process," he added.

Under EU rules, the first country of entry is required to deal with the asylum seeker's request for protection. But Germany had earlier in practice waived the rule for Syrian refugees.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how all these people were getting to Germany without already claiming asylum in the country they came thru first.

I also heard that Germany was expecting double by next weekend(pbs report, 40,000 this weekend --numbers are always different I just think "a buttload of people" when i see numbers like these ---40,000,weekend 60,000 week,80,000next weekend) .

So many people, just way too much too fast it seems. Why are they leaving their homes? These 80,000 people plus didn't want to try and defend their home? Their country? What made them all leave like this? Idk. I feel like I'm missing something in the narrative here. As a matter of fact ,I'm sure I am. ...*sigh*

[greybeard]

They are looking for a better life ---isn’t everyone!!!
Cant blame them for that.
Some will be in genuine fear for their lives.
However I doubt the majority are.
Just seems an enormous number for any country to accommodate.

Ch

[Constance]

[QUOTE=Carmody;998602]O
Lesson: Don't get lost in distractions. After a while you find that the trail of wounded and dying never ends, that the need to bandage wounds never ends. [QUOTE]

What you said reminds me of this quote.

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."

Henry David Thoreau

I am not saying that we allow people to suffer, far from it. We need to be able to put a stop to all this suffering as soon as possible.

And you are spot on Carmody.

It really is like a wound that will never stop bleeding out.

I can think of over a hundred ways that everyone on this planet is suffering. My heart just breaks at how people are suffering. Even those who I am closest to are suffering.

I don't read newspapers, watch T.V, or look at mainstream media because it would do my head in. I can't let that happen.

I feel that I have to stay balanced, focused and concentrate on finding what we can all do together both individually and collectively so that we can have lasting peace on earth. We need an answer to the whole overall situation.

I know that different people are doing different things all over the planet to try to change the situation we are in but it is all so compartmentalised and fragmented in much the same way that society is still compartmentalised and fragmented.

I feel that collectively we are so much stronger.

The closest analogy I can think of at the moment is with a piece of rope. The strongest piece of rope is equal to the number of strands that it has.

The more of us that can get together collaboratively on ideas that will help us go in the direction of peace, the better.
Someone wrote a great idea on a post on another thread - Maybe it was Conk? about getting all of the alternative health practitioners together around the world to form a natural health alliance.

Building upon that idea, I'd like to think we could unite all the different groups who are working towards our freedom and do it in a way that no one has done before. It has to be groundbreaking, innovative and under the radar.

Join all the dots together in a picture and you have one big dot!



[QUOTE]Final analysis and action point: Go to the reason the wound appears, or you are wasting your time. You have to make a decision to go after the source point ....and move away from walking emotional circles around symptoms.[QUOTE]

What is your opinion Carmody about what the 'source point' is or have you referred to this in other posts I am not aware of?:idea:

[Sungazerer]

It is a interesting development that Corbyn has just been elected as Labour leader. He is very much in favour of accepting refugees and it has been reported that certain members on the right in Labour might vote with the government's 2nd proposal to bomb Syria. Whether it be an escalation within the region on humanitarian grounds or a step closer to a Greater Israel, the election of Corbyn would seem to suit a globalists agenda. I certainly don't think Corbyn is aware of it if this is the case, but at any stage he could be taken out politically on the nuclear issue, the UK is very proud of their battling history. However an awful lot of people are questioning the refugee official story & it might well be that shortly we will be one step ahead of them through a seismic shift in consciousness.

[KiwiElf]

Beware of the Trojan Horse ;)

[Selkie]

This article was written by a Pole, an eyewitness at the Italian-Austrian border, to the behavior of the "refugees",

http://www.rense.com/general96/musrefugees.html

Maybe the Poles are not so prejudiced after all. Can anyone blame them for not wanting people who act like that?

[Ernie Nemeth]

When I hear of someone complaining of these refugees I always immediately agree with their sentiment at first. Then I always broaden my focus to see that it is the way of the west, the way of this society, to crush their rivals utterly and to have no compassion for their plight. I realize that our society uses this meme on our own people as well. There are western poor too - in every city and town in every developed nation on the planet. We have virtually no problem institutionalizing poverty but we have no will to eradicate it - that would cost us all a portion of what little we have already accumulated for ourselves...

The western world imposes itself on the rest of the world, insisting on their rules, on their goals, and on their values. We are all steamrolled into accepting the meme or to be sidelined, marginalized and rendered obsolete, redundant or worthless. Just as in our society, the bottom thirty percent have no credit or savings or any hope at ever attaining any - thirty percent of the population of the planet is in the same boat. No one gets a choice, it is either comply or be left behind.

Is it a wonder then that given the chance to be part of the mad rush of capitalism the down trodden will do anything, accept any hardship, to grasp the brass ring?

And what could be the outcome of such a mass exodus but to lower the income of all people everywhere. We are the frontier of the new third world. A place where politics will bog down to ineffectual partisan bickering and endless minority governments unable to address any issue for fear of losing their small base of supporters or risk the chance to woo others into their ranks. If we have accepted the meme fully and we expect things to continue as before we are doomed. Only an entirely new way of thinking and of being will win the day. Anything short of a radical rethink will only bring disaster.

The world cannot afford the shock and awe of unbridled capitalism any longer. And these refugees are in for a rude awakening...it is not so rosy over here either - and now with them here, it will only make things worse.

The thing that irks me the most though is, that the captains of industry get to walk away with their profits, made on our shoulders, while we are left to pay for the mass immigration of poor people with no means of their own.

[Tangri]

We must look under de-population of the local geography. Recently Turkey has 3 million refugees from Syria, it happened 18 months ago.

Turkey had to supply food, placement, health and education need for those refugees for 18 months now. Western countries and their citizens did not move any of their fingers for a long time.

According to the international law ; Refugees from war zones can not be denied by any country. First arrived country ( Turkey) can not restrict their movement until they chose not to exercise their rights.

German and Sweden made a declaration " who could come till their(German, Sweden) border they will be given citizenship.

It was a bold offer with it's low probability in reality.

But desperation creates stamina and determination. They are moving toward(walking) to German and Sweden.

Mostly They chose Turkey _ Greece root (many of them losing their life to pass sea barrier between Turkey and Greek islands) Then they move Greece's main land , and continue to the north west. Hungary and Poland just a simple root to German.

There is a humanity's test here. Maybe every body will need a sanctuary one day.

Maybe one day Americans are going to look for sanctuary in Canada or Mexico or we all will look sanctuary at south america continent.
Also, It can be occurred for any of European country, in the near future.

Think honestly, what you are going to be asking to others for help, if it was happened to you and your family.

[yuhui]

two very interesting articles from the perspective of astrology:
Refugees: Jupiter-Neptune In Action (http://www.oxfordastrologer.com/2015/09/refugees-jupiter-neptune-in-action.html)
"Last week, I did a talk at Aquarius Severn which included a short picture essay. I’ll show it to you here.Remember that Neptune and Jupiter, the planets that promote flow, meet across the mutable Virgo-Pisces axis once a century."
Here Are Refugees (http://www.oxfordastrologer.com/2015/08/here-are-refugees.html)
"The current opposition between the mighty rulers of Pisces, Neptune and Jupiter is pulling old rules apart and changing the shape of long-established borders. The sheer weight of human misery bursting out of the Middle East is challenging compassion and dissolving old boundaries. Both these planets tend to magnify events and when they work together we can expect mass experiences. Virgo-Pisces is the axis of healing, of course, but also of service, suffering and sacrifice. Right now they are at their maximum distance, embracing the whole Zodiac."

[Pam]

I am posting this as I have seen a tremendous amount of hate and bigotry among Polish people (I am from Poland) concerning the taking in of the Syrian refugees. People there are scared of Islamization, violence and destruction that might come from that. I was shocked to see that almost 90% of population is against taking them in. To be honest, as I told in one of the Polish forums, I am more afraid for the Syrians´ safety in Poland now, than for Polish people being ¨invaded by the destructive Muslims¨.

Now, my own personal opinion is that notwithstanding what might happens, we SHOULD accept them whenever our country´s economic situation allows it, as our primary human responsbility towards another human being is to help. No matter what. We will deal with the consequences later, if any. Now all I see is people in dire need of help. It doesnt matter to me they are Muslims. We cant be driven by fear, which, as we know, is mostly programmed in us by media.

What do YOU think? I respect Avalon Community so I am curious to see what your opinions are.



Corruption has permeated everything to the point that nothing is as it seems. At the very basic level, we should always help those in need, but nothing is that simple anymore.


Majority of so called refugees are not really war refugees. They are mostly economical migrants who seek for advantages of social system and benefits in EU countries.
quote from Pilgrim.


The above quote is an example of this. Maybe I have fallen to the place where our governments would like us all to be, bewildered and confused.


All that I know is that nothing is as it seems. I also know that no one should go hungry, be cold or be in severe pain without assistance from others.

[viscountvlad]

Well! What a lot to read and think about. Here's my take.

Conflict and instability in various nations had been caused by meddling by western powers or as a result of proxy wars over power, money, resources, the usual.

There seem to be extremist groups operating in a the middle east and threatening to spread hate and fear as far as they can. These may be funded by covert ops or be genuinely radicalised Muslims. If you are on the receiving end of bombs and bullets, it doesn't matter that much who paid for them.

As usual, the ordinary people suffer as a result of fighting between corrupt governments and various military movements.

These ordinary people fear for their lives and flee.

They brave many odds to reach places where they think they will be able to prosper. literally risking their lives to cross the sea, in the hope of finding peace. walking thousands of miles and crossing seas, militarised boarders and entering the grand bureaucracy of Europe.

Europe is, for the most part a stable place to live which is why they want to come.

Some opportunistic migrants have joined the refugees because they too feel that they want to live a better life with more opportunities. Who can blame them. Not me. I don't like to suppose I deserve the luxuries or opportunities I have. I don't deserve them more or less than any other human.

So, was this mass movement of people part of a great plan by shadowy cabals? Maybe.

Will ISIS agents infiltrate western countries along with refugees? Maybe. Time will tell.

Will Western governments use terrorism as an excuse for spying on it's citizens? It seems very likely as they do already!

Are there real people driven from their homes and heading to new lands driven by hope? Yes.

Should the wickedness of corrupt powers stop us from doing good?

These refugees and migrants are your brothers and sisters. Most want peace and stability and a chance to prosper.

When a fellow human reaches out we can reach back or we can pull away.

They may be being used as pawns but that is no reason for us to treat them as such. They are human.

The choice is, (as it often is) fear or love.

Fear for your nation, of change, of the different, of challenges to your own philosophy.
or
love for those who are in real need or are seeking opportunities that I have been lucky to have and can't deny another.


The root causes are important and must be addressed, but right now there are fellow humans asking our nations for help. Right now. in my opinion it should be given.

If you believe in such things as dark forces behind the seats of power, what energy do they want spread, to feed on? Fear, divisions, nationalism, hatred, mistrust, chaos. Will you give them a feast or a famine?

I choose love and hope over fear.


Sorry for the long ramble, just wanted to say my piece!

Love to you all.

[Selkie]

One problem I just thought of is that if I give aid to a refugee or refugees, and he/she/they turn out to be terrorists in disguise, the gov't of the United States could come down on me like a ton of bricks, and through no fault of my own I could end up with problems ranging from being put on the no-fly list all the up to and including prison. Even if it was just a simple case of mistaken identity, the same thing could happen. Do I want to risk that? I don't know. Not to mention that many terrorist funding networks use charitable organizations as fronts, AND those fronts are often run by the CIA, etc.

[viscountvlad]

One problem I just thought of is that if I give aid to a refugee or refugees, and he/she/they turn out to be terrorists in disguise, the gov't of the United States could come down on me like a ton of bricks, and through no fault of my own I could end up with problems ranging from being put on the no-fly list all the up to and including prison. Even if it was just a simple case of mistaken identity, the same thing could happen. Do I want to risk that? I don't know. Not to mention that many terrorist funding networks use charitable organizations as fronts, AND those fronts are often run by the CIA, etc.

Fair point, but consider this; there are real people working for charities that are doing good, give to them if you can/ want to. Our financial system means that all the money will trickle to the rich and powerful eventually whether via CIA or terrorist hands. Maybe it can help someone along the way. Use charities who help refugees/migrants, then you aren't implicated directly if that worries you. A genuine act of kindness carries its own energy and it's own value. Just because some people are doing bad doesn't mean we should hesitate to do good, they'll be bad anyway. Up the world's goodness levels! x

[Selkie]

Thank you, Viscountvlad :)

There are many subtle nuances to be considered when thinking about and discussing this subject, that's for sure.

[Pam]

[QUOTE=Carmody;998602]Order of operations:

Refugees from Syria: symptom.

Fascists, corporations and oligarchs, hiding in the backdrop ---who displaced them: Primary target and source point.

Lesson: Don't get lost in distractions. After a while you find that the trail of wounded and dying never ends, that the need to bandage wounds never ends.

Final analysis and action point: Go to the reason the wound appears, or you are wasting your time. You have to make a decision to go after the source point ....and move away from walking emotional circles around symptoms.

Observation: No major media ever talks about source points, they only speak of symptoms. If they speak as if they are talking of a given source point ... it is a distraction into their agenda, and it is layered and a partial truth (at best) that fits their agenda. This is the sad tale of such influences and power structures - for thousands of years.

Lesson: Don't read mainstream media, don't listen to mainstream media, and don't watch mainstream media.... it will distract you from fundamentals... into paths that end in the desires and directions of oligarchy.

I personally don't watch their shows ---None of their media, none of their entertainment. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

For almost 20 years now, and my head is 100-200-500% better for it.

One cannot claim their thought processes back ...when allowing such external input into a system which is essentially designed to be a hypnotic input system. A body data intake system... that takes things in subconsciously as a first order premise in design and operation.

Think Your Conscious Brain Directs Your Actions? Think Again (http://singularityhub.com/2015/08/02/think-your-conscious-brain-directs-your-actions-think-again/)[/QU




You hit the nail on the head, Carmody. You are so right. The flow will be never ending unless we address the cause. I can't help but think of the following comparison. I work in animal rescue and it never ceases to amaze me how people will donate thousands and thousands of dollars to help one animal because of their emotional response to that particular animals story. There is nothing wrong with this, and believe me, I am grateful there are those willing to help, but every time that happens I think of how much more good would be done putting that money towards spaying and neutering. In other words, going to the source of the problem, but the emotional story will always win out over the cold, hard facts.

[Peace of Mind]

More Divide and conquer tactics. Get the people to be at odds with each other...even on the littlest things like sports and games. Make them learn to like and indulge in constant debates, have them judge others that they themselves know very little about, fill them with false pride and self righteousness, make a society of "haves and have nots", have both sides thinking they are better then the other, and when things start to get rough for our hired officials, allow them to hinder the economies so they can blame it on the deeds and the will of the many, again.

The lack of trust and compassion within man will ultimately destroy humanity. When humans neglect their responsibilities and fail to harness courage… they will adopt a life of suffering and resentment. Regulating a corrupt few to manage the well being of the many is a sign of a dying species. How can such a being, intellectually superior to most other native species allow themselves to be killed off, softly?

No one owns anything in this realm other than their word and actions. Earth has never given permission to anyone to rule over her. As soon as the egotistical driven creature known as “human” realizes this…the better off the species will be.
Setting standards, claiming land that is and will never be truly yours… only aids to the decline in the equality of life. Parasitic tendencies, like a mosquito/flea/leech will inevitably meet resistance from that it intends to harm and feed off of. Tales of ancient civilizations facing extinction may be the results of human’s arrogance and deniability. As man continues to see no fault within himself… he will continue to make the same mistakes and be extinguished for them time after time, or shall I say… eon’s after eons. Outsmarting himself for ages, but not to the point of liberty and harmony…but to the point of global annihilation, leaving only Earth’s desirable to restart the process again.

Not sure if we will get it right this time around, hard to tell when we can easily come up with excuses to not get involved, it's hard to tell when we are so comfortable in disregarding and/or pretending to not see the opportunities that will make this “go around” an example of our divine awareness. Awareness that many claim to have but fail to exhibit it.

Society is filled with phonies, people acting like they care, people acting like they're better then what they've presented, acting like they can do no wrong, acting against what they feel is right deep down in their soul. With the rise in electronic devices...the social being known as human is becoming less social by the day. Media modes the mind and a world of thespians scuttle about with blinders on. People subconsciously wanting to be tv characters, wanting to dress, smell, look, walk like "fake" people...then look in the mirror spending precious time modifying your facial features just to meet the false standards of someone else's insecurities.

Life is easy, just ask the animals/insects/species around you how they do it?
Nothing works, unless you work.

Peace

[Jhonie]

http://www.rense.com/general96/musrefugees.html

I saw how they surrounded a car of an elderly Italian woman, pulled her by her hair out of the car and wanted to drive away in the car. They tried to overturn the bus in I travelled myself with a group of others. They were throwing feces at us, banging on the doors to force the driver to open them, spat at the windscreen … I ask for what purpose? How is this savagery to assimilate in Germany? - See more at: http://www.rense.com/general96/musrefugees.html#sthash.oNe7Q4jE.dpuf

[Selkie]

This is what troubles me. Some of them act like looters. They act like they hate us...they act like they hate the very people who they want to take them in and give them aid.

[greybeard]

Unfortunately there are some who spoil it for genuine refugees in need or even in danger in their own country.

You could say the world is a sad story. (not my view)

On the Scottish News the presenter said that one fifth of children here live below the poverty line.

There are obvious dangers in taking in a mass of people with an entirely different culture, particularly over a short period of time.
Most countries have difficulty in housing and employing their own people ie those born there and generations of forefathers who built the country.

There is nothing for nothing and dash little for sixpence.

You can see that those who spent a lot of effort in building a prosperous society while whilst wanting to help may eventually get annoyed and frustrated with incomers particularly those who have little intention of contributing to the stable structure and relative prosperity of that country.

No easy answer

Chris

[Jhonie]

Would you want a Muslim for president?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/25/a_muslim_president_was_ben_carson_right_128207.html

After all Muslims believe Sharia law overrides our constitution.

[Selkie]

If that nitwit county clerk woman who refused marriage licenses to gays is any example, many Christians believe the same thing about their religion...that it overrides the Constitution.

For myself, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A THEOCRACY. NOT ANYONE'S THEOCRACY. I DON'T CARE WHOSE IT IS. And yes, I am shouting, lol.

To me, our secular way of life is precious...very, very precious.

[Jhonie]

Well if I have to choose between the two I take christians but I wish there were no religions.

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/america-sharia-law.html

As the number of court cases that involve conflicts between civil law and Sharia law rise in America, majority of American states have introduced bills banning courts from accommodating Sharia law.

But those bills have been stalled by well-financed challenges in court by Muslim groups that also campaign against politicians who sponsor and/or support such bills. Oklahoma's law banning Sharia law from courts has been struck down, and only seven other conservative states (Louisiana, Arizona, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Kansas and Alabama) have been able to pass Sharia law-limiting legislation, and only after watering them to not even mention the word, "Sharia."

[Jhonie]

Difference is she didn't get away with it. Under Sharia law the gays would just be shot dead.

I did not realize until recently just how bad the problem is. It may come to war, the third world war maybe?

Edit. This crap has been happening while I have been distracted by all the other crap going on, has it all been a distraction I wonder.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRp6GKSFU8

Sharia law in Egypt?

[Selkie]

Difference is she didn't get away with it. Under Sharia law the gays would just be shot dead.

I did not realize until recently just how bad the problem is. It may come to war, the third world war maybe?

Edit. This crap has been happening while I have been distracted by all the other crap going on, has it all been a distraction I wonder.

I agree...she didn't get away with it, this time. But just wait...because there are plenty more like her waiting in the wings.

p.s. I've been wondering the same thing...will WWIII be a world religious war?

[Matthew]

I'm enjoying this side discussion, I'm just going to slip in something that's been said but I wanted to put a fine point on it: The mainstream media call them 'Syrian' when they are only partly made up of Syrians. I believe this is because TPTUtB* want war with Syria and want everyone to agree. Please don't fall for the confused labeling. As I understand it more accurate to call them 'mostly not syrian'. For the record my view is we have to accept the influx and bend to it, make it work. Fair or not, refugees or migrants, uncouth and or terrorists included it doesn't matter now, the flow has started. We have no choice but to make it work somehow, and yes with our eyes wide open I agree and I say all this while being a little scared which helps me keep my eyes open ;)

But main point being how the media are somewhat famously being inaccurately calling them Syrian refugees. Why be inaccurate? Who would profit from that?

*"The powers that used to be" I love that

[Jhonie]

I think I will register to vote so I can vote against Sharia law.

[Pilgrim]

Couple of points observed recent days (excerpts) nothing philosophical though poor facts:

"Refugees" escaping war atrocities complain is too boring to be in Finland since there are no people in streets, no bars, restaurants and nothing to do. Further it is cold there... So, some of them packed and left for Sweden.

"Refugees" escaping war make demonstration since Finland doesn´t treat them well. They don´t like food provided. Portions of Meal are not enough. Authorities say the food comes from same source as school cantinas have...They share their experience on social media advising their brothers and sisters don´t go to Finland it is terrible there.

"Refugees" of war after being provided by hosted society free food, accommodation, health care, pocket money wander around the town ringing on door bells of local inhabitants begging for money since they need to buy cigarettes and other needed things...

"Refugees" escaping war fight among themselves in centres therefore police need to intervene with riot units since present police officers didn´t manage to stop escalation when 400 people battled (it is revealed later on none of involved fighting groups are actually Syrians).

"Refugees" escaping war dismantle furniture in their accommodation to manufacture weapons to fight each others due to some disputes. Police intervene and seize the weapons.

"Refugees" escaping war leave mess around everywhere they come burning provided tents, blankets, clothe and other equipment not to carry it with since on social media shared when you get to another country you would be provided everything again.

"Refugees" rape and abuse women in centres. Prostitution is on rise there. Organized crime flourish there too police sources informally admit to journalists.

"Refugees" escaping war reach a safe country, one of EU countries, everything is provided to them free of charge, however, they attack centres staff, demolish interior of centre and calm down a bit only when riot police arrives. They shout in crowd being still aggressive they want to go (since thy decided) to Germany with their hand gestures and cheering Allahu Akbar.

"Refugees" throw on ground provided food and water demonstrating they are displeased due to "human rights violation". "Human rights violation" means from their point of view to follow instruction of local authorities officials to exercise the valid law on migration (registering them, checking documentation etc.).

Authorities admit there is only 20% Syrians among migrants...

Police hide data about rising criminality of migrants on local population (rape are reported frequently). Unknown source.

Fake and original Syrian passports are traded elsewhere for decent sum of money (Middle East and Europe).

EU representatives agreed on quotas of distribution of "refugees" among other EU state members to share the burden. 4 countries disagreed, one doesn´t vote. Quotas are accepted even though as such a vote violates legal system of independent countries. There is no legal frame work for such an act. Despite of that EU countries which disagreed are threaten if they don´t obey.

Do you want more? More is coming. Get ready.

[Selkie]

What a lovely bunch (sarcasm)