Another mass shooting in the US, Umpqua Community College, Oregon

[Cidersomerset]

Umpqua Community College Shooting MULTIPLE VICTIMS: at least 15 DEAD, More than 20 WOUNDED in Oregan


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http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

At least 10 killed in college shooting in Oregon

16 minutes ago.....From the section US & Canada

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16819/production/_85858129_2e11e071-91ed-4c44-9e32-42736bc66d92.jpg
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/CB4E/production/_85864025_screenshot2015-10-01at14.33.19.png
The college is located in a small, rural area in southern Oregon

At least 10 people have been killed in a shooting at Umpqua Community College in the US state of Oregon, US media report.

A local fire department confirmed the shooting on Twitter and advised people to stay away from the area.

The attacker is reportedly down after the shooting at the 3,000-student school.

At least 20 people have been taken to local hospitals for treatment.

The college is located in Roseburg, Oregon, about 175 miles (281 km) south of Portland.

Short vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34419802


http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/7D2E/production/_85864023_oregonroseburg4641015.png

Roseburg, pinpointed here, is located in the southwest region of the US state of Oregon

Roseburg is located in the southwest region of the US state of Oregon

Police told CNN the attacker has been taken into custody.

Agents from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms are on their way to Roseburg.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34419802

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[joeecho]

Where: Umpqua Community College, Roseburg, Oregon

When: 10/1/15

Roseburg is a city of about 22,000 people located about 70 miles south of Eugene, Oregon, and some 180 miles south of Portland.

Douglas County Commissioner Chris Boice told CNN that the shooter is in custody.


I will be really interested on how MSM spins this story in the weeks ahead.

Note to mods, merge with the post made by Cidersomerset. We posted at about the same time.

[Selkie]

Not again :( !!!

[Cidersomerset]

BREAKING: SHOOTING AT OREGON COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN ROSEBURG, 15 Dead and 20 Injured

" well they took this off U'tube quick" !! Copy right issues I suppose.....

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Published on 1 Oct 2015


BREAKING: SHOOTING AT OREGON COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN ROSEBURG, 10 Dead and 20 Injured

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Reports of multiple casualties in shooting at Oregon community college

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Published on 1 Oct 2015


mass shooting at a community college in Roseburg, Oregon, several media outlets
were reporting Thursday afternoon.Earlier reports put the initial death toll at 10..
The Umpqua Community College campus is on lockdown and The Associated Press
reported that Oregon State Police spokesman Bill Fugate confirmed seven people
killed and 20 injured.

[joeecho]

KTLA channel 5 is reporting that first responders found "multiple patients in multiple classrooms".

News of the injured: Michael Griffiths, CEO of Life Flight, says he's been told there are at least six critically injured patients at the community college.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpuqTRxjMyg

[Zaya]

Apparently, the person who did it was posting on 4Chan last night. It has been deleted off the site, but people on the internet have linked to a cache showing the messages. People were encouraging the shooter.... Wow.

Check it out: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Cidersomerset]

Thanks Jeecho for streaming link above. Its way to
early to know whether its another Sandy Hook.
Or another sad event that does happen from time
to time ?

[Lone Bean]

I am so jaded now as to all the false flag shootings and crisis actors doing their thing, that I will consider this another false flag unless it can be proved otherwise.

[Zaya]

I am so jaded now as to all the false flag shootings and crisis actors doing their thing, that I will consider this another false flag unless it can be proved otherwise.

I hear you. I think we are all jaded, but we don't know enough yet to make any calls and in my book assuming something is fake without knowing the facts is just as bad as assuming something is real without knowing the facts. Right now, we are simply in a place to see the information as it comes.

[Selkie]

I am so jaded now as to all the false flag shootings and crisis actors doing their thing, that I will consider this another false flag unless it can be proved otherwise.

Yup, me, too.

[Andynko]

I hear it was also a gun free zone

[Cidersomerset]

2RembfBhyUo

Published on 1 Oct 2015


A shooter at Umpqua Community College in Oregon has killed 10 and critically
injured more than a dozen others. CBS News homeland security correspondent
Jeff Pegues and former FBI Assistant Director Ron Hosko spoke to CBSN about the attack.

[Heartsong]

Roseburg is a small community but the hub of many smaller towns. It's a timber and lumber town, lots of outdoorsmen and sportsmen. No one would bat an eye at seeing a shotgun on a rack in the back of a pickup. It's deer season or almost. Politically it's conservative for Oregon. There is one public hospital and one VA hospital in Roseburg. Any notions of false flag are misplaced.

[rgray222]

I will be really interested on how MSM spins this story in the weeks ahead.


It will be equally interesting to see how the alternative media spins this story in the weeks ahead.

[Bill Ryan]

Apparently, the person who did it was posting on 4Chan last night. It has been deleted off the site, but people on the internet have linked to a cache showing the messages. People were encouraging the shooter.... Wow.

Check it out: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OZGEjT1ilSUJ:https://archive.moe/r9k/post/22785729/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Archived here as a PDF in case it disappears.

http://projectavalon.net/1_Oct_Oregon_shooter_forum_thread.pdf

[Selkie]

...Any notions of false flag are misplaced.

Or maybe not. A false flag in such a place would be a perfect way to cause small towns where people have felt pretty safe to "get the fear" a la the Charlie Manson.

[Zaya]

http://imgur.com/fMVjxJw

I thought this was very interesting.

Had to edit this to be a link... the image tag wasn't working.

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

At least 13 killed in college shooting in Oregon

51 minutes ago......From the section US & Canada

A woman is comforted as friends and family wait for students at
the local fairground after a shooting at Umpqua Community College
in Roseburg, Ore., on 1 October 2015.Image copyright AP

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/57AE/production/_85864422_0f8620c6-869d-40b9-95ce-24313d77378d.jpg
Students were taken a local fairground after shooting

At least 13 people have been killed in a shooting at Umpqua
Community College in the US state of Oregon.The 20-year-old
gunman died after exchanging fire with police officers inside a
classroom about 10:30 local time (18:30 BST), officials said.

Oregon State Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum said that at
least 20 people were wounded.The 3,000-student school is
located in Roseburg, Oregon, a rural area about 175 miles
(280 km) south of Portland. Douglas County Sheriff John
Hanlin said more than 100 police officers have responded
to the shooting inside the college's Snyder Hall building.
In audio from police radio channels an officer can be heard
saying the suspect was down and that there were "multiple
gunshot wounds" and calling for multiple ambulances to the scene.

The suspect supposedly used a "long gun".

A White House official said President Barack Obama was
briefed on the situation and will continues to receive updates.
FBI agents are on the scene at the college and more are on
their way from across Oregon, FBI Portland Field Office
spokesperson Beth Steele told the BBC.

Police search students outside Umpqua Community College
in Roseburg, Ore., Thursday, Oct. 1, 2015, following a deadly
shooting at the college.Image copyright AP
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/2C5C/production/_85865311_88c8b19f-35b6-4475-83c4-68bd5ab2c3b5.jpg
Police searched students and their bags after the shooting

Students, staff and faculty are evacuated from Umpqua
Community College in Roseburg, Ore. on 1 October 2015,
after a deadly shooting.
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8634/production/_85865343_c2b596e4-f1c8-4da1-880b-99ae346ac856.jpg
More than 100 police officers have responded to the scene of the shooting

Authorities respond to a report of a shooting at Umpqua
Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, on 1 October
2015Image copyright AP
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/D454/production/_85865345_1fce9adb-e633-4d78-b5e2-b5ade2aa3902.jpg
Police said they killed the 20-year-old gunman

Marilyn Kittelman, the mother of a student at the college, told
CNN her son said he heard no sound from the "30 some shots",
suggesting a suppressor may have been used on the gun,
despite there not being an official count of those shot yet.

Sgt Aaron Dunbar of the Roseburg Police Department told
CNN the "entire college went into lockdown very quickly".
Students were transported by bus to a local fairground to
be reunited with their loved ones.

According to Umpqua Community College's website, the
average age of students is about 38. The college is 58%
female and 42% male. The two-year college is made up
of about 16 buildings on 100 acres of land along the Umpqua River.

Sheriff Hanlin said the school is the only place of higher
education in Douglas County and that both young people
and adults seeking continuing education attend the school.

A former president of the school, Joe Olson, said the school
has no formal security staff, and that there was debate over
whether to have armed security guards on campus last year.

Are you in the area? Please stay safe. If you are safe and
are willing to share your story, please email 
haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk with your experiences.
If you are happy to speak to a BBC journalist,
please include contact details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34419802

[joeecho]

Obama is speaking now. Talk about predictive programming......

http://media2.giphy.com/media/1nW3fu4YBzKve/giphy.gif

[Cidersomerset]

President Obama Addresses Oregon School Shooting (FULL VIDEO)

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Published on 1 Oct 2015


'Thoughts and Prayers Are Not Enought' President Obama Angry Speech
over Umpqua Community College Mass Shooting in Roseberg Oregon.
Obama Delivers Remarks: Majority wants 'common sense' gun laws,
no 'sufficient gun safety laws' in U.S.

[Bill Ryan]

http://imgur.com/fMVjxJw

I thought this was very interesting.

Had to edit this to be a link... the image tag wasn't working.

Here:

http://i.imgur.com/fMVjxJw.png

[Omni]

This comes on a day in Oregon where they just legalized cannabis sales in stores. Retaliation maybe? Seems the overlords of the human PTB do like to take retribution in my experiences... And that kind of thing is offensive to them. Cannabis is a spiritual herb IMHO. It helps with trauma based mind control in my experiences quite a lot. I hear Cathy O'Brien said the same.

[SilentFeathers]

b327cXW86Ps

It will be interesting when they identify this shooter....it is really strange they are not saying who the shooter is.....

[observer]

Artificial Telepathy Technology - an active program since at least the first Gulf War (and most likely since long before that).

Problem - Reaction - Solution

They are very clever at what they do....

[SilentFeathers]

This is interesting, no wonder they aren't releasing the shooters identity yet, they probably haven't figured out how to spin this one yet!


UPDATE: The New York Post is reporting that the shooter demanded that people state their religion and that he would then shoot anyone in the head who said they were Christians. According to that publication:

A woman who claimed to have a grandmother inside a writing class in Snyder Hall, where a portion the massacre unfolded, described the scene in a tweet.

“The shooter was lining people up and asking if they were Christian,” she wrote. “If they said yes, then they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn’t answer, they were shot in the legs. My grandma just got to my house, and she was in the room. She wasn’t shot, but she is very upset.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/01/report-at-least-10-dead-in-oregon-school-shooting/?

[Bubu]

Artificial Telepathy Technology - an active program since at least the first Gulf War (and most likely since long before that).

Problem - Reaction - Solution

They are very clever at what they do....

UN Goal 11. "Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable"

[Cidersomerset]

SB-941, Ordinary law abiding citizens will become criminals according to Oregon Sheriff's

OGTBZIoo4w0

Published on 25 Apr 2015

Oregon House Committee On Rules 2015-04-22 SB-941
Tim Svenson - Yamhill County Sheriff
John Hanlin - Douglas County Sheriff

https://www.facebook.com/timsvensonforsheriff

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There is a fair bit about Tim on the web , a interview 2 months into the job. He
talks about how he became a law enforcer , and his early new role as sheriff .
He seems a pretty good experienced officer as far as I can see from his web
footprint. I liked his comment about 'facebook' not being private , even if you set
it to that mode.

Sheriff Tim Svenson on Local Matters with Ken Moore

-v90QtTBOrc

Local Matters with Ken Moore

Published on 10 Mar 2015 .....I think its from around 2013
The Sheriff and I talk Law & Order

[jake gittes]

I am so jaded now as to all the false flag shootings and crisis actors doing their thing, that I will consider this another false flag unless it can be proved otherwise.

Yup, me, too.

Ditto.

From Jim Stone - http://82.221.129.208/ah3index.html :

KEEPING THIS SHORT, SO THE ISIS VIDEO CAN STAY ON TOP: SHOOTING IN OREGON FAKE. INSTANT PROOF:
Remember that train shooting in Paris a month or two ago where two Americans stopped the attack before anything happened, Well, this new shooting in Oregon happened at the teeny tiny community college one of those Americans, Alek Skarlatos, attends. Only he was not there, because he was doing a rehearsal for "dancing with the stars". Figure the odds. Nuff said, this one is in the bag. And I just don't want to waste my time with another hoax shooting LIKE THE BAT MAN SHOOTING, A PROVEN HOAX, THEY RELEASED THE PHOTOS OF THE THEATER AND IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THEM CHECK THIS OUT! .

Speaking of Batman....

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/57AE/production/_85864422_0f8620c6-869d-40b9-95ce-24313d77378d.jpg

[Citizen No2]

It's all about the timing.

Guess what the spot-light of attention has been diverted from................... ?


Syria and the Russians.



Oh, and with that many young people involved in this........... shooting event ........... young people who are constantly plugged into social media......... not one video. Not one solitary video up-loaded to any of the video sharing websites, such as LiveLeak........


This so called event is nothing more than a concept.



Regards.

[Cidersomerset]

This could be a scene from a 'Dystopian movie'.......

http://www.trbimg.com/img-560da44b/turbine/la-na-oregon-community-college-shooting-pictures/650/650x366

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3918/14589021809_e49587dbf6_m.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNuuKcvWcAINktx.jpg

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Militarized Oregon police put UCC students into prisoner lockdown formations…
Hands behind your head, fingers laced together… Illegal searches of personal
backpacks

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015


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https://kauilapele.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/natural_news_logo_1.jpg?w=320&h=67

Militarized Oregon police put UCC students into prisoner lockdown formations...
Hands behind your head, fingers laced together... Illegal searches of personal backpacks

Friday, October 02, 2015
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Tags: UCC shooting, militarized police, prisoner lockdown


(NaturalNews) No shooting crisis in America -- real, staged or otherwise -- ever takes
place without law enforcement exploiting the crisis to indoctrinate the local population
with police state totalitarianism.

Following the mass shooting at the Umpqua Community College (UCC) in Oregon, students
and staffers were treated like violent prison felons, forced into prisoner lockdown formations
by heavily armed, militarized law enforcement toting large ammo loads and dressed for
combat in Afghanistan.

As the photos reveal here, students and teachers were ordered by police to march in
prisoner formation with hands behind their heads, fingers laced together. Police then
engaged in illegal, unconstitutional searches of students' personal belongings, with
no search warrant and no evidence of wrongdoing.

The only "crime" of these students was being present. Merely by being present on
the same campus as the shooter, they were all treated like suspected criminals and
potential terrorists. This is the new police state in America, by the way, accurately
described by John W. Whitehead in the outstanding book Battlefield America: The
War on the American People.

Look closely at the following photos and ask yourself: Is this still a free country?
Why are these innocent students being subjected to military tactics, prisoner
lockdowns and illegal searches at gunpoint?

http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/articles/Umpqua-shooting-police-state-search-600.jpg
Notice the prisoner lockdown formations: Hands behind your head, fingers laced,
legs spread, standing in place, ordered at gunpoint, while the police rifle through
all your personal belongings without a warrant.

http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/articles/Umpqua-shooting-police-state-search-2.jpg
UCC students are marched in prisoner formation, ordered by militarized police
to obey instructions or risk being arrested or shot.Here are more students
surrendering their freedom to local law enforcement even though they've done
nothing wrong and have committed no crime.
http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/articles/Umpqua-shooting-police-state-search-3.jpg


http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/articles/Umpqua-shooting-police-state-search-4.jpg
Oregon police officers, like most police, go "full military" by donning the weapons,
equipment and uniforms of frontline battle soldiers in Afghanistan. Notice the
ridiculous quantities of ammunition on their waist pouches and chest rigs. The cop
on the left has a ballistic helmet equipped with a night vision mounting point, plus
what looks like a medical pouch on his chest and possibly as many as six rifle mags
on his rig. (Notice the dump pouch on his left waist and something else under his
left arm that's suspended from his shoulder... probably more ammo mags.)

The stocky copy in the center of this picture has at least two pistol ammo pouches
in addition to whatever rifle ammo mags he's also carrying. These cops are geared
up like they're about to be air-dropped into Panama on an illegal raid to kidnap
Manuel Noriega... No doubt they also have a Pentagon-provided mine-resistant
assault vehicle parked in the background somewhere, too.

On one hand, I'm always happy when LEOs do a good job and stop the bad guys,
and I'm very happy they did their job here with zero casualties of LEOs. However,
do they really need to turn America's colleges into police state prisoner zones to do
their jobs? One lone shooter running around killing people does not justify the
destruction of the individual rights and liberties of everyone else.

Oh, and by the way, that silly forest pattern camo gear you're wearing doesn't hide
you against campus walls and indoor hallways. Next time, try A-TACS urban camo.
If you're gonna play soldier, at least dress for the proper tactical environment instead
of showing up looking like you just finished a paintball game in the Oragon forrest.


Crisis actors reused ? Mystery witness at Oregon College and Sandy Hook ?

PkOxuEAk9FE

Published on 1 Oct 2015
Same crappy Anonymous actress. Another ridiculous story.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/051410_UCC_shooting_militarized_police_prisoner_lockdown.html#ixzz3nOTvrt85

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Multiple Fatalities Reported in Oregon College Campus Shooting

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015 The Police State, War and Terror

http://images.dailykos.com/images/167910/large/gun.JPG?1443753786

‘An active shooter situation at a community college in Oregon has left ten dead and
seven injured, according to unconfirmed reports. The gunman has been identified
as 26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer, according to CBS News, citing law enforcement
sources. He has been confirmed dead.

Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin has confirmed that the shooting resulted in ten
fatalities with an additional seven injuries.’

Read more: Multiple Fatalities Reported in Oregon College Campus Shooting

http://sputniknews.com/us/20151001/1027872033/Oregon-College-Shooting.html

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Oregon college shooting: Nine dead in Roseburg attack

4 hours ago..... From the section US & Canada

Nine people have been killed and seven injured in a
shooting at a college in the US state of Oregon, say police.

The gunman, 26, opened fire at Umpqua Community College
on Thursday morning and was killed in a police shootout.

There were conflicting reports on casualties but Douglas
County Sheriff John Hanlin said 10 dead, including the
gunman, was "the best" figure.

Police have not identified the attacker but un-named officers
have told US media his name is Chris Harper Mercer.

pTqfw7HuRyU

Read more....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34419802

[cursichella1]

Early reports stated that ATF Officers arrived on scene within minutes, which seemed unusual. But then there's this:

In February, a local auction house (in Wilbur, 3 miles North of UCC and very near where Harper-Mercer lived in Winchester (yes, really...) was burglarized. 20 firearms were stolen:



Award offered for stolen firearms in Wilbur area

By Sara Mattison Feb 20, 2015
WILBUR, Ore. -- The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the National Shooting Sports Foundation - the trade association for the firearms industry - have announced a reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those responsible for the theft of firearms from the Federal Firearms Licensee Wilbur Auction located in Douglas County.

In the early morning hours of Thursday, February 5, 2015, Wilbur Auction, located at 8005 Old Highway 99 N., Wilbur, Oregon was burglarized.

Approximately 20 firearms, including pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, and AR-15 type lower receivers were stolen.

"One person wouldn't be able to quickly get in and out so I assume probably a couple people were involved," said WIlbur Auction owner Larry Hill.

"It's suspected that the entry was forced into the business," said Dwes Hutson with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. "Firearms were removed and at this point it's still under investigation."

Anyone with information should contact ATF...

[muxfolder]

It was said on the news that Obama wants your guns again. :P

[Selkie]

It was said on the news that Obama wants your guns again. :P

Why the tongue emoticon? Are you making fun of our predicament? I am really asking :)

[Bill Ryan]

.
This is a very well-written, careful, considered, summary article. It's worth reading.

http://activistpost.com/2015/10/oregon-shooting-13-troubling-signs-of-potentially-yet-another-false-flag.html (http://www.activistpost.com/2015/10/oregon-shooting-13-troubling-signs-of-potentially-yet-another-false-flag.html)


Oregon Shooting: 13 Troubling Signs Of Potentially Yet Another False Flag

OCTOBER 2, 2015
By Bernie Suarez (http://truthandarttv.com/oregon-school-shooting-13-troubling-signs-potentially-another-false-flag)


When you practice something all the time you eventually get very good at it. The one thing many awakened and vigilant Americans have become good at over the past few years is sniffing out government false flags because they have so much practice at it. You may find that the events surrounding the recent Umpqua Community College shooting in southern Oregon may ring a few familiar false flag bells after you consider what the mainstream media is saying about the shooting. It is at least extremely reasonable to suspect that this is yet another gun control shooting false flag event since it has many of the characteristics of it.

Sounds crazy? Yes, it always does. False flags are supposed to divide people in addition to tricking them. But as I’ve said repeatedly in the past, when considering a suspected false flag event you have to start somewhere. Look for the beneficiaries of course and look for common patterns. I think many of us know the patterns by now and what to look for when suspecting a false flag shooting.

The college where the latest shooting took place is located six miles north of Roseburg, Oregon and was a very small town where you would expect everyone to be known to most people yet early on it appears this is not the case. Thirteen so far unknown people are said to be murdered and another 20 wounded.

So, should we believe that the Oregon shooting is legitimate with no government involvement? I would like to think so, but as always many things surrounding this latest shooting force us to consider if we’re dealing with yet another gun grab shooting designed to push anti-gun legislation. With the new world order’s Agenda 2030 pushed last week with help from the Pope, we know that Obama now has gun control as one of the remaining major items on the top of his list before he leaves office in 2016. The administration desperately needs this gun-control agenda to be pushed through and we’ve seen a laundry list of proven false flag shootings over the past several years.

Are you someone who wants to believe this is not so? Then deal with these 13 points which at the very least bring into question this latest shooting.

1 – Grandiose mainstream media headline demanding your attention to this story.

Without the same grandiose mainstream media headline, I myself would not have noticed this story online. Here we go again? This is now the latest 24/7 story that the mainstream media seems to want and need you to be fascinated by. This alone is a huge tell-tale sign no one should overlook.

2 – Immediate call for gun control in the story sub-headlines.

This latest Oregon school shooting comes with no holds barred. Even in the very headline there was a quick post announcing the need for gun control. Whenever you have gun control pushed on you before you can understand what just happened, that should be a red flag.

3 – Obama himself immediately calls (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-gun-laws-must-be-changed-gun-owners-must-speak-up/ar-AAf11mv?li=BBkWgwN&ocid=mailsignout) for gun control seizing the moment Sandy Hook style.

Obama even admits his desperate gun control agenda is political.

“This is something we should politicize,” he said, calling on Americans of all political stripes to hold their elected leaders accountable for acting on the issue.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=526e032390&view=fimg&th=15028f9b55de93ef&attid=0.0.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ_qOKB0pFE9waijK16luyUVCzaH1A33F9i8UjE2i_7xcl38k4fx5m38XxHa1HipE1n5M54s0b6txAax8hbFdVQio Y-ZWjGliKigCp4bocHHxj-XGPScXmJ1l7g&sz=w550-h458&ats=1443796506750&rm=15028f9b55de93ef&zw&atsh=1 (http://activistpost.net/ammo.html)It goes without saying that whenever Obama jumps into a topic you should run the other way and fast. Very few actions tell me this shooting has an agenda behind it more than seeing Obama immediately calling for gun control on cue. I’m thinking, doesn’t Obama have presidential work to do? Why is he so involved in specific stories that perfectly fit the new world order agenda? Are we to ignore this or consider this timing coincidental?

4 – Shooter is dead as usual.

We all know the script by now and once again and as usual the shooter does not live to tell the tale or defend his intent. That’s because dead men tell no tales. Consequently, the story as usual is left to the story tellers. And with the usual dead shooter there is much less need to worry about any account conflicts or future revelations of government involvement. Some things for everyone to consider are the following – Did the shooter try to lower his gun? What circumstances led to police actually killing the shooter? Are police reports available for us to see? Don’t police disable people any more?? Isn’t there policy for this? Did police follow correct procedure?

5 – Shooter identity completely unknown but repeated mention of “4 guns” very known.

How often does a shooting take place and no one knows who the shooter is (as of the time of this article)? Students didn’t recognize their own classmate? Or did the shooter decide to shoot a bunch of strangers in a school that he’s never attended? How is it that no one knows the shooter? This certainly was not the case in the Virginia Tech shooting of 2007 or Columbine shooting where everyone seem to know or recognize the shooter. Consider this carefully.

6 – “Conflicting reports” in the number of dead people. Identity entirely unknown as well.

Who are these dead people? What are their names? And why is there confusion as to how many people are dead at a small school. Is the body count that high? That difficult? You decide what this might mean given the context of all the facts coming out. It would certainly not be the first time we’ve heard conflicting stories and body counts.

7 – Oregon is recent state of political interest to Neocon former NYC Mayor (http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2014/10/michael_bloomberg_provides_125.html) Michael Bloomberg.

It’s not a far stretch to imagine that a good town for a false flag shooting would be one where trusted criminals have influence or are in power. Is it just me or has anyone else been wondering what the heck in former Mayor Bloomberg was doing in Oregon? Is it a coincidence that former NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been dumping a lot of money into pushing legislation in Oregon? In the past, others within alternative media have called for watchful eyes in Oregon given this connection. No big deal? You decide.

8 – Social media controversy already brewing.

Recall after the Sandy Hook shooting false flag we saw criminal Lt Paul Vance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw7A1g_-5U) come on TV and call social media exposure of the Sandy Hook shooting “disinformation” and a “crime” to be “prosecuted.” Similarly, again we are seeing an early immediate attack and discrediting of social media in an attempt to control the information. Perhaps they are doing this knowing that soon more information will come out. Everyone should consider that this social media stunt may be purposely bogus to discredit social media. I suspect this may be what is happening. This is just another attempt by the controllers to condition people into thinking that the only reliable news comes from mainstream media sources.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=526e032390&view=fimg&th=15028f9b55de93ef&attid=0.0.2&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ80cUWU47zcgNNyWqvK1BlRQ_rhE3yjklGvBum8ikNeX5SVkwkPLC15RMlEBPvzHbN87l5u09wby9SqG-l5N7gVM4-9K39aLs402GDIlvY-aa1g8S8RZ9vC0dw&sz=w2-h2&ats=1443796506751&rm=15028f9b55de93ef&zw&atsh=1
9 – Initial images and videos show no ambulances, no blood or dead bodies.

If anyone has these images please provide them so we can see them but as of the time of this article this evidence was not available.

This reminds us of almost every shooting false flag where the mainstream media hides the images of the crime scene. Where are the images of the police yellow tape? The blood on the floor? The bodies? The ambulances and emergency vehicles?? By hiding all of these images all of the story and images is left to your imagination and this allows for maximum control of the information.

10 – Shooting has a divisive religious twist to it – opens door for blaming Islam, others later on.

Without any further explanation we’re told that the shooter demanded that his victims state what their religion was before shooting them. No one seems to offer what the intent of this was or what does this mean. Is this an attempt to leave the door open for a possible blaming of ISIS or some other extremist related patsy? Consider that the shooter up to now (the time of this article) can be anyone. Conveniently the controllers have held back the identity of the shooter.

11 – No clear cut witnesses actually saw the shooting.

Yes, believe it or not. After reading the story it appears there are only 3 witnesses accounted for. The closest thing to an eyewitness is Kortney Moore:

Kortney Moore, 18, told the local News Review newspaper that she was in her writing class in Snyder Hall when a gunshot came through the window and struck her teacher in the head.

The remaining 2 supposed witnesses only HEARD the gunfire according to reports.

Student Cassandra Welding told CNN that she heard 35 to 40 shots.

Student Brandy Winter, in a posting on Facebook, said she was in a classroom in Snyder Hall, next door to the room where the shooting began and ran, along with her classmates, when they heard the gunfire.

Winter also says that “from talking with a student in the classroom where it happen, almost every person in the room was shot by a man with four guns,” admitting she herself did not witness the shooting.

Anyone who knows about guns might find this statement a bit peculiar since you can only shoot someone with a gun one bullet at a time. You cannot fire 4 guns at once. Also, studies show that when someone is shot with a gun most of the time they will actually survive the shooting since the bullet must penetrate vital organs. Also people who are severely shot won’t die right away giving them time to potentially tackle the shooter. So it’s not easy to actually shoot and kill a room full of people with 4 guns. Also surely after the first few rounds everyone afraid for their lives would have run full speed out of the room.

So where are the people who actually saw the shooting with their own eyes? And, again, why did no one tackle the shooter as he switched guns given that most likely he could get off no more than 10 rounds at a time? I’m sure we’ll hear from the wounded victims much later on like the interview we saw with Greta Van Susteren and the Virginia Shooting survivor crisis actor (http://www.activistpost.com/2015/09/virginia-shooting-hoax-theres-always-someone-to-tell-the-story.html).

12 – All students quickly treated as strip-searched suspects instead of victims.

Did the police not want the students to get a good view of the evidence and scene as they passed by? Was this part of the drill to condition students to give up their 4th amendment rights Boston bombing style under shooting conditions? And why were students joking?? Were these students not just exposed to a shocking bloody gruesome scene? I find this a little odd.

“They walked us straight through the crime scene with our hands up,” 18-year-old freshman Andi Dinnetz said. “It was more tense outside. In the classroom, everyone was trying to make jokes and keep it from being as serious as it was.”

13 – Social media manifesto (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oregon-shooting-threat-may-have-circulated-on-social-media/ar-AAf16zH?li=BBkWgwN&ocid=mailsignout)-like messages once again posted to further substantiate shooter intent.

Mainstream media is posting a chain of messages posted by an anonymous character on 4chan.org (http://4chan.org) the night before:

Don’t go to school tomorrow if you are in the northwest.

Once again, a would-be shooter in America whose shooting would quickly serve the gun control agenda just so happens to pre-post threats announcing or hinting at what he is going to do. This is another trademark of false flag shootings.

Conclusion

I want to believe this latest shooting is not a false flag. I have no other information except what mainstream media wants us to know. I (we) have an obligation to receive the information in the right context. And what context is that? That the globalists are desperate and they are running out of time to get more gun legislation in. The context that a month ago they suffered a horrific failure in Virginia when overwhelming evidence clearly shows the shooting was a false flag. Following this, the Virginia TV Reporter shooting disappeared completely from mainstream media news, and it disappeared for a reason. Surprisingly and ironically there was no mention of the late August Virginia TV Reporter shooting in this recent story which, by the way, mentions several of the other shootings from the past. Given that it only happened a month ago isn’t this a little odd?

Also consider this story in the context of the embarrassment that the U.S. is suffering with respect to ISIS being called out and bombed in Syria. The U.S. and the new world order is in the midst of a tumultuous period. They need a victory soon and just as everyone is looking at the ISIS/Syrian crisis failure here comes a new shooting to get your attention away from Syria.

Is this latest shooting a perfectly coincidental event for the globalists or just another false flag shooting? You consider the evidence for yourself and decide. I’m sure new evidence will emerge. Whether that evidence debunks my suspicions or confirms it will remain to be seen.

[Selkie]

All of these false flags are another way the PTB are breaking down our sense of reality and putting us into a twilight world where we can't tell what is real from what is not.

[muxfolder]

It was said on the news that Obama wants your guns again. :P

Why the tongue emoticon? Are you making fun of our predicament? I am really asking :)

Of course not. It's very sad these shootings are happening and these days it's not just in the US but everywhere. I was just pointing out the obvious that this is another fake reason trying to confiscate your guns. It's that same old song really and it's starting to get rather silly. Problem, reaction, solution.

[Gaia]

As a non-American looking in from the outside, gun violence is a cancer in American life, whether its maniacs or drugs or whatever. You have nearly as many gun deaths as Mexico, for god's sake. The refusal to acknowledge this reality is an appalling example of market triumphing over public good. The Carthaginians had the practice of Moloch, the Romans had their gladiatorial matches, the Aztecs had the Flower Wars, and Americans have the schools shooting.

My thoughts to the families :heart:

[Selkie]

It was said on the news that Obama wants your guns again. :P

Why the tongue emoticon? Are you making fun of our predicament? I am really asking :)

Of course not. It's very sad these shootings are happening and these days it's not just in the US but everywhere. I was just pointing out the obvious that this is another fake reason trying to confiscate your guns. It's that same old song really and it's starting to get rather silly. Problem, reaction, solution.

Thank you for your explanation, muxfolder :)

Yes, the targeting of our Second Amendment right to bear arms is a terrible thing to people who understand why it was enshrined in the Bill of Rights. And it is even worse that our government is trying to take that right away by stealth.

This exchange between Josey Wales and Ten Bears illustrates why it is so important that "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWCvi-XvQuo

p.s. The Outlaw Josey Wales was taken from the book Gone To Texas, by Forrest Carter, a Native American.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ls2wAAAAIAAJ&hl=en

[Carmody]

The most important part is that violence in the world is DOWN, lower than it has ever been (per capita measurement). We are far more peaceful than we have ever been, in all known human history.

No matter what you are being force fed in the news, it is indeed a most real and true data point.... that humanity, overall, is more peaceful than it has ever been.

You are being gamed, you are being manipulated....via modern tactics, methods, and device.

[muxfolder]

A staunch believer in the Second Amendment, he fired off a letter two years ago to the vice president saying he would never comply with any gun control law coming from the Obama administration.

Now that he's having to contend with a shooting by a man clothed in body armor who carried four guns and killed nine people, some analysts wonder if he will change his position.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-sheriff-john-hanlin/index.html

[Selkie]

A staunch believer in the Second Amendment, he fired off a letter two years ago to the vice president saying he would never comply with any gun control law coming from the Obama administration.

Now that he's having to contend with a shooting by a man clothed in body armor who carried four guns and killed nine people, some analysts wonder if he will change his position.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-sheriff-john-hanlin/index.html

That is really creepy. It implies that this false flag was designed specifically to discredit this sheriff, and that they were just waiting for the right moment to pull it off. In other words, they were willing to kill nine people to pressure one man into changing his tune.

[Gaia]

The most important part is that violence in the world is DOWN, lower than it has ever been (per capita measurement). We are far more peaceful than we have ever been, in all known human history.

No matter what you are being force fed in the news, it is indeed a most real and true data point.... that humanity, overall, is more peaceful than it has ever been.

You are being gamed, you are being manipulated....via modern tactics, methods, and device.

I do agree with you Carmody! The reality is that the news media, regardless of ideology, exists to sell itself for eyeshare and clickshare with alarmism and theatrical "news" shows sell ad time and generate revenue. Some categories of violence, like rampage shootings and terrorist attacks, are riveting dramas but (Outside war zones) kill relatively small numbers of people. Sadly, most Americans have no idea that they are being lied to...

It’s hard to believe we are in greater danger today than we were during the two world wars, or during other perils such as the periodic nuclear confrontations during the Cold War. England, Canada, and most other industrialized countries have also seen their homicide rates fall in the past decade. Among the 88 countries with reliable data, 67 have seen a decline in the past 15 years.

''That humanity, overall, is more peaceful than it has ever been'' Very well said!

Fyi: Overblown: How Politicians and the Terrorism Industry Inflate National Security Threats, and Why We Believe Them.
by John Mueller

[joeecho]

A staunch believer in the Second Amendment, he fired off a letter two years ago to the vice president saying he would never comply with any gun control law coming from the Obama administration.

Now that he's having to contend with a shooting by a man clothed in body armor who carried four guns and killed nine people, some analysts wonder if he will change his position.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-sheriff-john-hanlin/index.html

That is really creepy. It implies that this false flag was designed specifically to discredit this sheriff, and that they were just waiting for the right moment to pull it off. In other words, they were willing to kill nine people to pressure one man into changing his tune.

Just one man's opinion:

I cannot see a production of this magnitude for just one man but there a stranger goings on in this world of ours so who knows.

One thing I thought of about 'false flag' operations that may not always be apparent to all:

False flag operations do not have to be an all or nothing situation. What I mean by that is there can be specified effort to create an event....set the stage, lighting, timing, actors or reporters to augment the story etc. etc. and give the illusion that it is a completely random and spontaneous event when it is anything but. There can even be a 'real' element of tragedy to innocent lives but STILL be a false flag operation.

It doesn't have to be all false or all true to make it a false flag operation or not.

[Selkie]

Well, they bring down whole planes to get one person, so I don't know why they wouldn't kill nine to force one influential man** to change his mind. I'm not saying that is what they did. I'm just saying that its not outside the range of possibility.

** Influential in his neck of the woods, that is.

[Mike]

I thought the president's speech was a good one. I found myself nodding and agreeing the whole way.

I think we all have to take off our conspiracy hats for a minute. Sometimes people do crazy things without the aid of mkultra. Having access to all these guns is utter insanity. I wouldn't trust myself with one, let alone half the country.

If I hear one more person say that asinine line ...'guns don't kill people, people kill people', I may actually get a gun myself and shoot you. These are the same people that say we actually need more guns...to keep people safe. Somewhere Orwell is turning over in his grave..Wishing he thought of that line.

Mass shootings. Right. The only reason they're "mass" is due to the nature of the gun. You can stand back and spray dozens of bullets into a crowd and kill many many people. It's easy and convenient...And economical, as far as time and space are concerned. It's the only way these people can kill a large amount of people in a small period of time..or anyone at all for that matter!

Notice there's never any "mass stabbings"...or anything of that nature. Because it's impossible to run around stabbing 20 people in a small room without everyone a)scattering or b)gang tackling the guy.

Make no mistake: GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Especially here in the wild wide west

[Calz]

Don't remember the source ... but allegedly there have been 19 instances of genocide on the planet ...

Each was proceeded with removing guns from the populace.

No one (with a conscience) wants to see innocents killed ... no one.

Genocides can and have killed many millions.

Do the math.

[Gaia]

I thought the president's speech was a good one. I found myself nodding and agreeing the whole way.

I think we all have to take off our conspiracy hats off for a minute. Sometimes people do crazy things without the aid of mkultra. Having access to all these guns is utter insanity. I wouldn't trust myself with one, let alone half the country.

If I hear one more person say that asInine line ...'guns don't kill people, people kill people', I may actually get a gun myself and shoot you. These are the same people that say we actually need more guns...to keep people safe. Somewhere Orwell is turning over in his grave..Wishing he thought of that line.

Mass shootings. Right. The only reason they're "mass" is due to the nature of the gun. You can stand back and spray dozens of bullets into a crowd and kill many many people. It's easy and convenient...And economical, as far as time and space are concerned. It's the only way these people can kill a large amount of people in a small period of time.

Notice there's never any "mass stabbings"...or anything of that nature. Because it's impossible to run around stabbing 20 people in a small room without everyone a)scattering or b)gang tackling the guy.

Make no mistake: GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Especially here in the wild wide west

''I think we all have to take off our conspiracy hats off for a minute. Sometimes people do crazy things without the aid of mkultra. Having access to all these guns is utter insanity. I wouldn't trust myself with one, let alone half the country''.

Violence of any sort doesn't happen in a vacuum. Schools shooting are the American way, just like mass sacrifices to Huitzilopochtli was the Aztec way. They are a ritual tolerated to justify other aspects of status quo and guns control improbability.

[Selkie]

People who want to commit mayhem will always find access to guns, even if they have to make them themselves, not to mention that criminals, by definition, don't obey the law, so why would they obey anti-gun laws?

It makes no sense to disarm the whole population simply because a few people go mad every year (assuming this incident isn't a false flag). The guy could have plowed a car into a crowd of students. Should we outlaw driving, or the ownership of cars?

Maybe instead of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" the saying should be "People who want to kill people will find a way to do it."

[joeecho]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

Exception: Maximum Overdrive (1986) ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac5DO8DiIps

[Mike]

Don't remember the source ... but allegedly there have been 19 instances of genocide on the planet ...

Each was proceeded with removing guns from the populace.

No one (with a conscience) wants to see innocents killed ... no one.

Genocides can and have killed many millions.

Do the math.


You're referring to Hitler or Stalin, right? Something like that?

I can't really speak to that Calzy. It seems there was always some curvaceous girl in tight jeans sitting in front of me during high school history...you know, something more important..

This is always 1 of the many reasons cited for gun insanity..I mean ownership in the US. And I always sort of think... it would still be quite easy for the most powerful military in the world to overtake a bunch of unorganized cowboys waving 9mm guns, wouldn't it? And I don't think it would have been much harder for the Russians or the Nazis at the time. Might slow them down a little...

I dunno bud. I'm not necessarily for removing ALL guns from the population. But something's gotta change..

[Meggings]

Do...not...allow...guns...to...be..taken...away...from the population.
When an authority points a gun at you demanding you do something, will you do it or be shot dead?
Without a way to defend what matters to you, you are at the mercy of those who have taken authority over you.

Recall the forced immunizations done in Africa, where a small group ran and hid in the jungle.
They were found and forced AT GUNPOINT to accept the immunization needles, compliments of Bill Gates' "charity".

Keep your ability to say "no".
Defend your rights as a citizen to defend yourself against coercion that goes against your best interests.
Even though Bush Jr. said that the constitution is "only a piece of paper" - it was put in place for the individual.
As Eleanor Roosevelt said, the rights of an individual take precedence over the rights of the state.

[Mike]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

No it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

[Selkie]

I tend to think its a false flag,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-Collage-Oregon&p=1005431&viewfull=1#post1005431

Bill provided an excellent link in this post ^^^

Time will tell. We are getting better and better at detecting false flags.

[Inmortal719]

To be honest, USA has a everyone should have a gun policy, Fear porn is everywhere and that only makes it worse, as far as I know everyone can purchase one or have the right to do so...
Here in Mexico the only people who have guns are the police, the army and federal agents, people that rob with guns probably got them in the black market, usually imported somehow, or belonged to the cartels (and guess where they bought those guns, yup, USA).. however it is very very dangerous to do that and only to mention that in public can scare people off or have you arrested....

These gun availability is what makes the shootings so common in the USA, Bullying and fear is just the trigger...
We've never had any in our schools...Not one that I know of in my entire life..

[Calz]

Do...not...allow...guns...to...be..taken...away...from the population.
When an authority points a gun at you demanding you do something, will you do it or be shot dead?
Without a way to defend what matters to you, you are at the mercy of those who have taken authority over you.

Recall the forced immunizations done in Africa, where a small group ran and hid in the jungle.
They were found and forced AT GUNPOINT to accept the immunization needles, compliments of Bill Gates' "charity".

Keep your ability to say "no".
Defend your rights as a citizen to defend yourself against coercion that goes against your best interests.
Even though Bush Jr. said that the constitution is "only a piece of paper" - it was put in place for the individual.
As Eleanor Roosevelt said, the rights of an individual take precedence over the rights of the state.


That's the line in the sand then isn't it???

... at least one of them.

The One World Everything UN will at some point come to collect the guns.

Forced vaccinations ... list goes on.

Agenda 21 (now 2030) ... hello???

All documented ... no conspiracy ... quite clear and long planned for.

Those with eyes to see have witnessed these plans unfolding like clockwork for several decades.

Not suggesting those plans will continue unimpeded ... guess that's up to us then eh?

[Gaia]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

Not it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

No, no Joeecho is right! guns kill people in USA with their own accord...:

1. The gun lobby now spends 6 times as much for lobby fees than the anti gun lobby.
2. A majority of Americans claim to want some type of national gun regulations but the NRA opposes this.

Columbine happened while I went to school there, and there was so much collective shock in reaction. But we aren't shocked anymore. I guess we're numb to it? We expect it? Mass shootings dismay us, but they don't surprise us anymore. What I find sad is that today's tragedy was pretty terrible. Had it happened 20 years ago, the nation would be in shock. But we're now over shock?

[Selkie]

...But something's gotta change..

No, it doesn't.

The reason I say this is because the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, which is part of the Constitution. The only way to change the Second Amendment is to change the Constitution, something the PTB would just LOVE to do. To change the Second Amendment, a Constitutional Convention would have to be called (if I remember civics class correctly),


A constitutional convention is a gathering for the purpose of writing a new constitution or revising an existing constitution. A general constitutional convention is called to create the first constitution of a political unit or to entirely replace an existing constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_convention_(political_meeting)

Do you really think that the power-mad psychopaths would stop at changing the Second Amendment? I don't. I think that if the Second Amendment were used as a pretext to call a Constitutional Convention, we would be left with no Bill of Rights and no Constitution at all.

[Lone Bean]

Hammers kill people! Don't use them or you'll get killed! Water kills people! Don't go swimming or you'll drown! Cars kill people! Don't drive or you'll get killed! Planes kill people! Don't fly or you'll get killed! Knives kill people! Don't use them or you'll bleed to death! Sugar kills people! Don't eat it or you'll DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gaia]

Hammers kill people! Don't use them or you'll get killed! Water kills people! Don't go swimming or you'll drown! Cars kill people! Don't drive or you'll get killed! Planes kill people! Don't fly or you'll get killed! Knives kill people! Don't use them or you'll bleed to death! Sugar kills people! Don't eat it or you'll DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

Evil! We seemed to see it everywhere :jaw:...

Hey look! That's the first mass shooting this month in USA. Are you not tired of mass shooting in school? Blame it on yourself... And do something about guns control!!! Wake up guys!!!


Like your post Lone Bean Merci! ''Don't eat it or you'll DIE!!!!!!!!!!!'':p

[East Sun]

False flags are 'engineered' to fool the gullible into giving up their right to bear arms. Don't buy into their deception.

[observer]

I respect Jim Marrs with the highest degree of honor. Jim has said many times (and I paraphrase), "as long as there is one individual with a gun on the planet, and I don't care if it's even the police or the military, than by gosh, I'm gonna have a gun."

Makes sense to me. Where's the argument?

Now.... perhaps those members supporting, "taking the fire arms away", should do some deeper research into what is really going-on. That's what the Avalon experience is supposed to be about....

[Mike]

...But something's gotta change..

No, it doesn't.

The reason I say this is because the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, which is part of the Constitution. The only way to change the Second Amendment is to change the Constitution, something the PTB would just LOVE to do. To change the Second Amendment, a Constitutional Convention would have to be called (if I remember civics class correctly),


A constitutional convention is a gathering for the purpose of writing a new constitution or revising an existing constitution. A general constitutional convention is called to create the first constitution of a political unit or to entirely replace an existing constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_convention_(political_meeting)

Do you really think that the power-mad psychopaths would stop at changing the Second Amendment? I don't. I think that if the Second Amendment were used as a pretext to call a Constitutional Convention, we would be left with no Bill of Rights and no Constitution at all.



I don't think the men writing the constitution ever imagined the possibility of school shootings. How could they? They were clearly very wise men, and i think if they were alive today they'd be wise enough to endorse some form of gun restriction. The 2nd Amendment exists because at that time states were at war with states and there were renegade indians running wild etc...it was a very dangerous time

The constitution is a wonderful document, but as humanity grows and evolves, it needs its laws to reflect that.

I don't think it serves anyone to cling to laws or ideas that no longer serve us. If we did, I s'pose we'd still be killing people who worked on the sabbath:)

I'm not suggesting all guns be removed from the population and declared illegal. But something must change. If it doesnt, these events will continue ad nauseum. I mean, are you OK with this???...as some sort of lesser of the evils evil??? I don't really follow you on this one Selkie..

[Gaia]

False flags are 'engineered' to fool the gullible into giving up their right to bear arms. Don't buy into their deception.

Fyi to all : https://shar.es/17QJy2

[Calz]

I don't think the men writing the constitution ever imagined the possibility of school shootings. How could they?



Fair enough ... I don't think those writing the constitution envisioned mind control so complete that there could be nearly an unlimited number of "postal people".

[Mike]

False flags are 'engineered' to fool the gullible into giving up their right to bear arms. Don't buy into their deception.



This is a very lazy way of justifying gun ownership, imo.....to sit back and without emotion declare all these events "false flags". It's profoundly arrogant and not very intelligent. It conveniently removes all responsibility from oneself and places it on some very easy to blame conspiracy theory. It's the easy way out...and its totally lacking in intelligence, compassion and just plain common sense.

[Selkie]

..I'm not suggesting all guns be removed from the population and declared illegal. But something must change. If it doesnt, these events will continue ad nauseum. I mean, are you OK with this???...as some sort of lesser of the evils evil??? I don't really follow you on this one Selkie..

I know you're not suggesting that, Mike. But clearly the PTB have it as their goal.

Its not that I'm "ok" with it. I hate these mass shootings as much as anyone. Its that I understand that crazy or bad people abusing our freedoms is one of the risks involved in living in a free society.

Someone will always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS abuse our freedoms, and the people who want us to have NO freedoms will always use that as a pretext to take all of our freedoms away from us in the name of the greater good.

So I say that we...yes we...should be willing to run the risk that some nut or nuts (if this is not a false flag) will abuse a basic freedom just so that we can have those basic freedoms.

[Cidersomerset]

Don't remember the source ... but allegedly there have been 19 instances of genocide on the planet ...

Good point Calz you got me thinking and I know your point , which is why
the first right to bear arms was included. The 13 colonies had just come
out of a civil war with Britain as until independence they were still
subjects of the German British King , that's why there were 'Hessian'
mercenaries , Scots ,Irish , welsh , English ,native Americans and
others fighting for the crown, and more or less the same ethnic groups
fighting for independence some of which were multi generational colonists who
thought themselves loyal to their 'State ' first , Crown second and the united states,
after hostilities began at Concorde and Bunker Hill, and if it was not for French
intervention and luck , Cornwallis would of won the Yorktown campaign and who
knows how long the war would have dragged on and who would of won. Though as
the States were moving west and south taking new states from other former French
and Spanish colonies and native peoples traditional lands. The US would have
eventually been formed one way or another, which eventually leads to the second
civil war between the north and South , and the genocide thru wars and disease of
the native American population.

Add to this it was only a decade or so after the Anglo / French American wars
part of the seven years war in Europe .When the British and colonist and native
forces defeated Gen Montcalm at Quebec and took over the former French colony
of Canada. This is partly why the French were willing to recognise the colonies
fight against Britain and sent a French army and fleet to aid General Washington
which was the deciding factor in the surrender of Gen Cornwallis at Yorktown.
Which more or less signalled the end for the crown as war was brewing in Europe
again and the empire was expanding elsewhere, and the rest is history...

http://www.aaanativearts.com/expansion.gif

War Profiteers & Population Control - USA at War 222 Years out of 239 Since 1776
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?84489-War-Profiteers-Population-Control-USA-at-War-222-Years-out-of-239-Since-1776


Which is a long winded answer that America was born by the gun and its part
of the culture and its a complex issue.

[Mike]

I don't think the men writing the constitution ever imagined the possibility of school shootings. How could they?



Fair enough ... I don't think those writing the constitution envisioned mind control so complete that there could be nearly an unlimited number of "postal people".


I believe some forms of mind control exist. I also believe false flags have occured.

But we use these things carelessly and indiscriminately and irresponsibly Calzy. We externalize (thanks Ulli) waaaay too much on this forum. Way too much. It's a way of avoiding responsibility and the burden of rational thought.

That's my take

[Cidersomerset]

Don't remember the source ... but allegedly there have been 19 instances of genocide on the planet ...

I went completely off topic with my answer above , genocide some could consider
the 'flood' the first act of genocide but from the ancient world and possibly even
earlier 'galactic wars' Man has been killing man with what ever weapon they could
find or conceive. History is full of them from Biblical slaughter to the ancient
empires , to the Romans ,thru the centuries to the century of industrial death the
20th right up to today in the Middle East. It should be pointed out the Rwanda
massacres were done with machettes and other weapons.So it is not necessarily
the weapon but the 'conditioning' of the user . I looked on the genocide page and
there is a wide definition from many different cultures thru out history.
Not just the obvious ones like Germany , USSR and China there are many more
as you know.


This is an incomplete list that may never be able to satisfy particular standards for
completeness. You can help by expanding it with reliably sourced entries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

[Mike]

..I'm not suggesting all guns be removed from the population and declared illegal. But something must change. If it doesnt, these events will continue ad nauseum. I mean, are you OK with this???...as some sort of lesser of the evils evil??? I don't really follow you on this one Selkie..

I know you're not suggesting that, Mike. But clearly the PTB have it as their goal.

Its not that I'm "ok" with it. I hate these mass shootings as much as anyone. Its that I understand that crazy or bad people abusing our freedoms is one of the risks involved in living in a free society.

Someone will always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS abuse our freedoms, and the people who want us to have NO freedoms will always use that as a pretext to take all of our freedoms away from us in the name of the greater good.

So I say that we...yes we...should be willing to run the risk that some nut or nuts (if this is not a false flag) will abuse a basic freedom just so that we can have those basic freedoms.




I mean I agree with some of this...but to do nothing or to change nothing is insane!

(I wonder what Keel would say?:bigsmile:)

[risveglio]

Notice there's never any "mass stabbings"...or anything of that nature.

Especially here in the wild wide west

Good rant, absolutely no truth to it but a good rant

China mass stabbing: Deadly knife attack in Kunming
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26402367

Mass Stabbing Reported at Houston-Area Community College
http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/04/09/mass-stabbing-reported-at-houston-area-community-college

Mother arrested for murder after 8 children found stabbed to death in Australian home
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-australia-stabbing-20141218-story.html

'Shy' student held in mass stabbing at Pa. school
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/09/pa-school-stabbings/7498911/

Matthew de Grood charged in Calgary's 'worst mass murder'
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/matthew-de-grood-charged-in-calgary-s-worst-mass-murder-1.2610465

I can list about 20 more in a few minutes


... And the Wild West was not really that wild, that's all Hollywood.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Not-Wild-West-Economics/dp/0804748543

[Selkie]

..I'm not suggesting all guns be removed from the population and declared illegal. But something must change. If it doesnt, these events will continue ad nauseum. I mean, are you OK with this???...as some sort of lesser of the evils evil??? I don't really follow you on this one Selkie..

I know you're not suggesting that, Mike. But clearly the PTB have it as their goal.

Its not that I'm "ok" with it. I hate these mass shootings as much as anyone. Its that I understand that crazy or bad people abusing our freedoms is one of the risks involved in living in a free society.

Someone will always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS abuse our freedoms, and the people who want us to have NO freedoms will always use that as a pretext to take all of our freedoms away from us in the name of the greater good.

So I say that we...yes we...should be willing to run the risk that some nut or nuts (if this is not a false flag) will abuse a basic freedom just so that we can have those basic freedoms.




I mean I agree with some of this...but to do nothing or to change nothing is insane!

(I wonder what Keel would say?:bigsmile:)

But change it how? The only way to change the Constitution is with a Constitutional Convention, but that opens up the entire Constitution to be changed, or even to be morphed by the psychopaths into a form that is unrecognizable to us. The reason being that the Second Amendment cannot be changed any other way than through a Constitutional Convention. The PTB know this.

A lower law cannot change a higher law, and so the only way to effect real gun control would be to bring about a Constitutional Convention so that the Second Amendment, itself, could be changed.

But the PTB psychos will not stop there! They would like to do away with the US Constitution entirely. And that is what will happen if a Constitutional Convention is ever called in order to change the Second Amendment.

[Calz]

I mean I agree with some of this...but to do nothing or to change nothing is insane!



But change it how? The only way to change the Constitution is with a Constitutional Convention, but that opens up the entire Constitution to be changed, or even to be morphed by the psychopaths into a form that is unrecognizable to us. The reason being that the Second Amendment cannot be changed any other way than through a Constitutional Convention. The PTB know this.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oMAOs53Eh1Q/TiL1hWOFdRI/AAAAAAAAMIs/RfKd-Dz-BOU/s640/bush.jpg

[risveglio]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

No it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

Ok, its like saying spoons make people fat?

[Calz]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

No it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

Ok, its like saying spoons make people fat?

:rofl:

yes but forks and table knives are much more deadly :)

[risveglio]

Don't remember the source ... but allegedly there have been 19 instances of genocide on the planet ...

Each was proceeded with removing guns from the populace.

No one (with a conscience) wants to see innocents killed ... no one.

Genocides can and have killed many millions.

Do the math.

http://jpfo.org/pdf02/genocide-chart.pdf

[Mike]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

No it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

Ok, its like saying spoons make people fat?


That's cute. There must be some kind of book out there where you freaks draw these goofy sayings from...and you're so proud of them!

That China event involved militants. Terrorists. And there was something like 5 of them. Sure, set them loose on a crowd and bad things are going to happen...knives or no knives. I'm talking about the lone gunman syndrome we have here in the US..

The woman in Australia attacked children. Children. Pretty easy targets. It was described as domestic too. Not that hard to do when your have 'em all rounded up in a room. Again, you're missing the point entirely...

The last one is valid. Ok, fine. Exceptions to every rule.

All I can say is, thank God they didn't have guns! It would have been 100x worse!

[Calz]

This is an ever continued debate.

Will the nitwits that be continue to stage these "events" to push the gun grab ... well yes.


To be quite honest ... and I will throw in a twist ... with all the advanced black op toys I don't thing gun ownership matters one iota at this point.


Torch and pitchfork days have gone.


There are myriads of ways to eliminate mass quantities of people if and when the time comes.


With that happy thought ... I have to pick up my kid from school :)

[East Sun]

There seems to be an abundance of 'Manchurian candidates' involved in many if these shootings. And when they are shot they are gone, out of sight, out of mind. They seem to be 'chosen' because of their 'weaknesses' and can be manipulated to their detriment.

There will always be more of them to be exploited. Keep an eye out for more of this kind of thing.

[Mike]

There seems to be an abundance of 'Manchurian candidates' involved in many if these shootings. And when they are shot they are gone, out of sight, out of mind. They seem to be 'chosen' because of their 'weaknesses' and can be manipulated to their detriment.

There will always be more of them to be exploited. Keep an eye out for more of this kind of thing.



I agree Eastsun. I do. I know this happens. I'm thinking of Kennedy and John Lennon here...

But don't you get tired of us blaming every single one of these events on "them"? God I find it so tiresome.

I apologize if I was rude to you earlier. This is an emotional topic for me.

[DouglasDanger]

Solution - Disarm Every one, the police, the military, the world and guess what happens next? The mentally unstable then pick up their swords and hack as many as they can before being cut down. This is why guns where invented to stop the bullies with size and might from brutalizing those with less size and might IMHO.

Realy look at where these shootings are happening, gun free zones. Most of you probably have forgotten about the 1989 Polytechnique massacre aka the Montreal Massacre, we have stricter gun laws here in Canada this did not stop a mentally unstable person getting a gun and going on a rampage at a school.

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre )

The truth is these mentally unstable people will always go for the weaker targets, people they know they can dominate. I have yet to read or hear about a mentally unstable person walking into a gun show show and opening fire.
This all boils down to Cowardess. Another Coward with no true courage strikes again. whatever your reason is when you pick a weaker unarmed target you are a Coward. My family member shot an unarmed Jesse James in the back and has been branded a Coward for eternity, In reality he only killed one murderous bank robbing thug and did America a favor. So how about We start branding these shooters as the true cowards they are. lets start to change history and realize that puting Murderous thugs on pedestals who prey on the weaker unarmed people in the right place and stop sensationalizing this sort of behavior maybe then these mentaly unstable people will start to choose different paths Like getting help for their mental illnesses.

[risveglio]

Sorry but I have two female relatives that have used a gun to defend themselves from a sexual predator. Guns are used in self defense far more than they are for mass shootings. Whenever a gun is used to stop a mass shooting, you don't hear about it in the news. Police kill more in a year then are killed in mass shootings. The ban guns argument is an awful one. The US has a huge gun culture since its inception and all the shooting are happening now and if I am not mistaken, every single one of these shooters are on some sort of pharmaceutical drug. Want to put the blame somewhere, blame big pharma!

More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226493660?redirect=true&pldnSite=1

[Calz]

Well although I put forth the idea that personal arms will not do much to stop the top weapons (if that line is crossed) what is important is that one of the most likely scenarios (again if "they" opt to go down that path) would be to cut the grid and let everyone fight among ourselves for food.

*THAT* is why you need a weapon (or five).

Police have become so militarized they are really a domestic army (homeland security ... what the heck is the post office doing buying weapons and ammo ... sorry I digress).


You protect yourself and your family from the roving hungry people ...

Make sense?

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Oregon college shooting: Gunman 'targeted Christians'

13 minutes ago......From the section US & Canada

Hannah Miles: "We heard three or four more gun shots and everybody just
looked at each other"

Oregon college shooting

Army vet 'hero' in Oregon shooting

The gunman who killed nine people and wounded seven others in
Oregon had targeted Christians, the father of one of the victims says.
Named as Chris Harper Mercer, the gunman opened fire on Thursday
inside a classroom at Umpqua Community College.Thirteen weapons
were recovered, six at the school and seven at his home, the police
said. All were bought legally.Mercer had body armour, three pistols
and a rifle when he was shot and killed by police officers after a gun
battle.On Friday, US President Obama repeated his calls for Congress
to toughen up the gun laws.


And he urged the public to apply pressure to their local politicians.

"You have to make sure that anybody who you are voting for is on
the right side of this issue."

Earlier, Stacy Boylan, whose daughter survived the shooting, told US
television network CNN that his daughter described to him how the
gunman asked his victims to state their religion before shooting them.

"'Are you a Christian?' he would ask them, 'and if you are a Christian
stand up,'" the father recalled.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/176CC/production/_85884959_hi029406334-1.jpg
A vigil was held for the victims


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone

[joeecho]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

No it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

You're mind's eye is myopic.

[Inmortal719]

The US has a huge gun culture since its inception and all the shooting are happening now and if I am not mistaken, every single one of these shooters are on some sort of pharmaceutical drug.

Agreed on the gun culture but it's not happening right now, it has happened since forever, and no, not all shooters were on drugs or something, I'm telling you fear and bullying is the trigger!,
Almost all school shooters were phisically bullied, I mean a gun for safety, that's ok!, but 13 guns and body armour? ok what is the people afraid of??? I wouldn't be surprised if you can purchase a Rocket launcher in the US, I think you can actually get a .50 cal anti tank rifle, Barrett M82....

[Calz]

Remember the lame stream media is overwhelmingly for gun grabbing (don't bite the hand that feeds you).

For every story about killing there are about 10 that only get published in alt media (aka aj or whatever) about the citizens defending themselves against those breaking into their homes with bad intent.

Make guns illegal will simply make the innocent helpless to defend themselves against the criminals who *will* be armed.


Why this is still an issue I find puzzling.


Yes ... every time there is a mass shooting it comes up ... and *that* is the reason for the false flags (although I agree we should not assume all mass shootings to be such).

[East Sun]

The shooter was obviously mentally unhinged, to target children because of their religion. Take a look always at the mental state of the shooter(s).
And ignore those with an agenda to disarm. What a ludicrous thought, to disarm citizens who have a total right to protect themselves and their families by whatever means necessary.

Mods. in my opinion name callers need a reminder as to how to behave.

[Rocky_Shorz]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Oregon college shooting: Gunman 'targeted Christians'

13 minutes ago......From the section US & Canada

Hannah Miles: "We heard three or four more gun shots and everybody just
looked at each other"

Oregon college shooting

Army vet 'hero' in Oregon shooting

The gunman who killed nine people and wounded seven others in
Oregon had targeted Christians, the father of one of the victims says.
Named as Chris Harper Mercer, the gunman opened fire on Thursday
inside a classroom at Umpqua Community College.Thirteen weapons
were recovered, six at the school and seven at his home, the police
said. All were bought legally.Mercer had body armour, three pistols
and a rifle when he was shot and killed by police officers after a gun
battle.On Friday, US President Obama repeated his calls for Congress
to toughen up the gun laws.


And he urged the public to apply pressure to their local politicians.

"You have to make sure that anybody who you are voting for is on
the right side of this issue."

Earlier, Stacy Boylan, whose daughter survived the shooting, told US
television network CNN that his daughter described to him how the
gunman asked his victims to state their religion before shooting them.

"'Are you a Christian?' he would ask them, 'and if you are a Christian
stand up,'" the father recalled.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/176CC/production/_85884959_hi029406334-1.jpg
A vigil was held for the victims


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone


according to Sorch's report, the shooter tried to go to Syria through Turkey in September to join isis, "Also important to be noted was Mercer’s association with the ISIS/ISIL terrorist Mahmoud Ali Ehsani, who is banned in Russia [Русский], and was one of only two of Mercer’s MySpace “friends” and who praises the Islamic State, calls for the killing of Jews and glorifies in pictures on his MySpace page his rapture of these terrorists." link (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1921.htm)

[observer]

Fact - in the States it can take the police 20 minutes to a full hour to respond to a active shooter call, especially if you live in a rural area. Taking fire arms away will disarm the innocent.

I reiterate, these mass shootings are the product of Artificial Telepathic Technology. The Global Elite want law abiding citizens disarmed. Those are more a threat to the power structure than the criminals.

[Selkie]

...This is an emotional topic for me.

That is natural and human and commendable.

Unfortunately, it is also how the PTB intend these things to be. Whether they are true mad-gunman shootings or false flags, the goal is to get you to feel rather than to think, because the human animal, except for the poets, literally cannot do both at the same time.

The PTB will use always use these occurrences, no matter how they happen, for their own purposes. So our job becomes to keep our heads, even while our hearts ache, the better to see what those purposes are.

In this case, we don't need to look very far because Obama is already making hay for gun control on the heels of this occurrence, despicable slime devil that he is.

[Mike]

GUNS KILL PEOPLE is like saying parked cars run over and kill people of their own accord.

No it's not. In fact, that's a really dumb thing you just said there. Just dumb.

You're mind's eye is myopic.



I don't even really know what that means, but ok Joe..fair enough.

I've got one foot in both worlds, mainstream and so called conspiracy. I think it's a healthy place to be. But it makes things difficult sometimes. Sometimes my views represent the conspiracy culture, and sometimes they represent mainstream culture. mostly it's a mishmash. But it's tough when a subject like guns comes up...because it seems people either believe in an oligarchal shadow government that will soon declare martial law and take away all our rights(and therefore guns are necessary to defend oneself) ...or they don't (in which case they're not quite as necessary). I see very little middle ground here. That scares me...more than guns even!

I like to think I represent the middle ground. I guess you could call me a moderate. But to gun people, I'm a radical....not because I want to confiscate all their guns or make them illegal, but because I simply want to rationally explore gun laws and make the changes that are required to curtail this culture of violence.

Now, of course in a mad max dystopian future guns make a lot of sense. In the relatively civilized society we live in today, not so much. So, we have to weigh the probability of that mad max future occuring against all the atrocities that are occuring today and start making some wise decisions. We've been predicting doom n gloom since I joined the forum in 2011. I'm still waiting for it to happen..4 years later. And I suspect 4 years from now we'll all be relatively ok..but still predicting more nonsense that will never happen...and justifying our guns because of it. Meanwhile, people are dying...

I think what troubles me most about some gun owners here is this: even if they didn't have this concern about OrwellIan government interference or takeover, they'd still find some other reason to own guns. Even if they lived in a peaceful area, they would still stubbornly cling to the things...as some form of misguided rebellion. They refuse to listen to reason. It's turned into a pride issue now. There will never be a good enough reason to not own guns..even as schools are getting shot up left n right...

OUwb3Z2Klrk

I_0MmjEyDb4

[Calz]

Fact - in the States it can take the police 20 minutes to a full hour to respond to a active shooter call, especially if you live in a rural area. Taking fire arms away will disarm the innocent.

I reiterate, these mass shootings are the product of Artificial Telepathic Technology. The Global Elite want law abiding citizens disarmed. Those are more a threat to the power structure than the criminals.


I don't live in California so this is 2nd hand ... take it or not for what you will ...

Some districts are so broke they don't dispatch units in many circumstances ...

As the economy continues to crumble watch for that happening to a district near you ... ????


... and yet there seems to be no shortage of moneys to get swat teams to invade organic farms or off the grid preppers ...

is this a great country or what???

[ThePythonicCow]

"People who want to kill people will find a way to do it."
and "Tyrants who want to find a way to mass murder and enslavement will (likely) find a way to do it." :)

[ThePythonicCow]

I dunno bud. I'm not necessarily for removing ALL guns from the population. But something's gotta change..
I suggest that the mass media get some balls and stop over-hyping these sometimes partially, sometimes entirely, fake events, as the headline news of the day, and instead start reporting what are the real causes of mass death, enslavement, poverty, ignorance, and disease.

[ThePythonicCow]

False flags are 'engineered' to fool the gullible into giving up their right to bear arms. Don't buy into their deception.



This is a very lazy way of justifying gun ownership, imo.....to sit back and without emotion declare all these events "false flags". It's profoundly arrogant and not very intelligent. It conveniently removes all responsibility from oneself and places it on some very easy to blame conspiracy theory. It's the easy way out...and its totally lacking in intelligence, compassion and just plain common sense.

Please go easier on calling the postings of others lazy, dumb, or arrogant ... if you could.

It is the nature of events such as these, and of the way in which they are "reported", to get us acting out of our more base emotions, shutting out awareness of other aspects that are perhaps, even likely, in the end analysis, far more important to the life, well being and freedom of humanity.

[Mike]

I dunno bud. I'm not necessarily for removing ALL guns from the population. But something's gotta change..
I suggest that the mass media get some balls and stop over-hyping these sometimes partially, sometimes entirely, fake events, as the headline news of the day, and instead start reporting what are the real causes of mass death, enslavement, poverty, ignorance, and disease.



right, but unfortunately the victims aren't fake dying:). i think we completely dehumanize these people by reducing them to pawns in a conspiracy theory nearly 100% of the time.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




False flags are 'engineered' to fool the gullible into giving up their right to bear arms. Don't buy into their deception.



This is a very lazy way of justifying gun ownership, imo.....to sit back and without emotion declare all these events "false flags". It's profoundly arrogant and not very intelligent. It conveniently removes all responsibility from oneself and places it on some very easy to blame conspiracy theory. It's the easy way out...and its totally lacking in intelligence, compassion and just plain common sense.

Please go easier on calling the postings of others lazy, dumb, or arrogant ... if you could.

It is the nature of events such as these, and of the way in which they are "reported", to get us acting out of our more base emotions, shutting out awareness of other aspects that are perhaps, even likely, in the end analysis, far more important to the life, well being and freedom of humanity.


no problem.

[ThePythonicCow]

... but unfortunately the victims aren't fake dying:).
Often they are fake dying, while the real millions of murder victims are "over there somewhere ... "

You might try reading some of Miles Mathis (http://mileswmathis.com/updates.html) :). He presents some pretty good evidence and analysis that much of our headline news is deeply faked infotainment.

[joeecho]

Sometimes a picture/ meme says things so well and to the point.

http://jpfo.org/images16/guncontrol-poster-450.jpg.

[awakeningmom]

I don't think calling something a "false flag" implies a lack of compassion for the real victims --or a lack of desire to have the shootings stop. It simply suggests that the perpetrator was not some random mentally ill lone gunman dude who just so happened to go out with his guns loaded to kill him some "Christians" and that there is a larger agenda at play.

IMO, as many have already stated, and at least from what I've heard so far, the Oregon UCC shooting has all the trappings of a false flag event -- but not necessarily a fake event. We've got the repeat of the ISIS theme of killing Christians, we've got politicians and the President all over the media demanding swift gun control measures before anyone can even figure out what really happened. We've got lots and lots of media attention, but very few details about the event itself. So I'm suspicious.

Were there real victims in this case? Maybe. I don't have enough information yet to decide. But maybe the perps finally realized that fake victims weren't playing too well with the public -- and that putting laughing "parents" of the victims on the air less than 24 hours after their child was allegedly gunned down to advocate for gun control raised too many red flags....so maybe this event involved real victims. Why would the PTB have any qualms about doing that?

And in that way, you've got the perfect scenario for everyone to turn against each other rather than to demand real answers from those who are feeding us this story and narrating how it happened. Seriously, it's demonically brilliant: plant enough clues so that the "conspiracy crowd" is freaking out over all the inconsistencies and tell-tale false flag signs, and then kill some real innocents so that the people shocked and outraged by the real killings are agreeing that gun control is the only answer and that those who are opposing that solution are conspiracy nuts, rednecks, lacking compassion, etc.

No normal person wants innocent people to die. No normal person wants school shootings to occur. And if we all believed that keeping guns only in the hands of the military and police would actually prevent that from happening, this wouldn't be such a divisive issue.

But once you believe that the government/military/police -- or some faction of it -- was behind even ONE of these high-profile shooting events, then a potentially real event by a real mentally ill lone gunman dude who wasn't mind controlled or a patsy or a black op mercenary, if there is really such a thing, still won't convince you that gun control is the answer. Dismantling the PTB is the answer, IMO.

Unfortunately, although I currently believe most of these high-profile shooting events are false flags (with real victims) to get more people rallying for gun control, I actually don't believe that the federal government is at all concerned about the limits of the Constitution. When they are ready to take the guns away, they will -- and without need to call a Constitutional Convention. Congress makes laws that violate the Constitution all the time. The President issues executive orders that also violate its terms. The Supreme Court is supposed to be the final arbiter to prevent that from happening....and we all know how that's been working out...

[ghostrider]

False flag again... They interviewed a girl whose friend was shot and sent to the ER , and the girl could not stop smiling while on camera being filmed, and on and on ... The PTB are still trying to shape public opinion and control the narrative... Give up your guns and you will be safe -haha ... :shielddeflect:

[jake gittes]

This is a very lazy way of justifying gun ownership, imo.....to sit back and without emotion declare all these events "false flags". It's profoundly arrogant and not very intelligent. It conveniently removes all responsibility from oneself and places it on some very easy to blame conspiracy theory. It's the easy way out...and its totally lacking in intelligence, compassion and just plain common sense.

Talk about arrogance and lack of intelligence. Sheesh.

This is a lazy was of justifying gun banning:


I think what troubles me most about some gun owners here is this: even if they didn't have this concern about OrwellIan government interference or takeover, they'd still find some other reason to own guns. Even if they lived in a peaceful area, they would still stubbornly cling to the things...as some form of misguided rebellion. They refuse to listen to reason. It's turned into a pride issue now. There will never be a good enough reason to not own guns..even as schools are getting shot up left n right...

A law-abiding citizen who prefers to own a gun "clings" to it out of "misguided rebellion?" Umm, maybe they "cling" to it because they wish to protect themselves and their family. Maybe they like to hunt non-GMO food. Maybe they want to be able to shoot a rabid skunk in the event it is threatening a child or pet. Or shoot a home-invader. Or they live in an area like Umpqua Community College, Oregon that isn't always "peaceful."

What schools are getting shot up all left and right? Sandy Hook? FAKE. This one in Oregon - where a guy allegedly asks their religion, then shoots? Seriously? LOL. I'll wait to judge before more facts come in, but it's looking pretty fake already. If it really was real, and the guy who "charged the gunman and got shot 7 times and survived (and is already smiling in his hospital bed)" had a gun instead could have just shot him.

but unfortunately the victims aren't fake dying

Yeah, they are. Little Noah Pozner keeps dying, in fact.

[Heartsong]

for Oregon TV coverage: www.kgw.com or www.kezi.com or www.npr.org

[jagman]

I dunno bud. I'm not necessarily for removing ALL guns from the population. But something's gotta change..
I suggest that the mass media get some balls and stop over-hyping these sometimes partially, sometimes entirely, fake events, as the headline news of the day, and instead start reporting what are the real causes of mass death, enslavement, poverty, ignorance, and disease.



right, but unfortunately the victims aren't fake dying:). i think we completely dehumanize these people by reducing them to pawns in a conspiracy theory nearly 100% of the time.

¤=[Post Update]=¤




False flags are 'engineered' to fool the gullible into giving up their right to bear arms. Don't buy into their deception.



This is a very lazy way of justifying gun ownership, imo.....to sit back and without emotion declare all these events "false flags". It's profoundly arrogant and not very intelligent. It conveniently removes all responsibility from oneself and places it on some very easy to blame conspiracy theory. It's the easy way out...and its totally lacking in intelligence, compassion and just plain common sense.

Please go easier on calling the postings of others lazy, dumb, or arrogant ... if you could.

It is the nature of events such as these, and of the way in which they are "reported", to get us acting out of our more base emotions, shutting out awareness of other aspects that are perhaps, even likely, in the end analysis, far more important to the life, well being and freedom of humanity.


no problem.


Mike, You have one of the smartest minds here at Avalon!
I have great respect for your intellect and your whit. These
new Avalonians need to go and look at some of your old threads!
I don't know what's going on in your life but this place needs
a voice of reason!!! We have to have the ability to challenge!
I think you bring a very unique voice to Avalon! Your friend
Jason. PS I hope you make it back soon!

[Calz]

Mike, You have one of the smartest minds here at Avalon!
I have great respect for your intellect and your whit. These
new Avalonians need to go and look at some of your old threads!
I don't know what's going on in your life but this place needs
a voice of reason!!! We have to have the ability to challenge!
I think you bring a very unique voice to Avalon! Your friend
Jason. PS I hope you make it back soon!

Mike will be back.

We all live with tough choices and decisions.

Mike has a beautiful soul and is quick to jump into the fray ...

Damn his ass ... for some reason he always drags me in along with him.


I love you Mike ...


Don't stay away too long

[gripreaper]

OK, I guess I’ll wade into the pool after six pages, and Mike on sabbatical. Of course this is an emotional topic. NO ONE wants to see innocent people gunned down, but aside from the actual event, let’s try and see the biggest picture possible.

Yes, we do live in an age which has an extremely powerful oligarchy with an agenda to keep all of the populations of planet earth in subservience and slavery. This agenda of extracting the energy of the masses for a few psychopaths, who history has shown to not be human or from this planet, continues unabated.

These psychopaths now have technology which can and does manipulate the very energetic matrix, down to the very brain waves of individuals and groups, and can create whatever memes and beliefs it chooses on a mass scale. They have the technology to go into the very brain of an individual and trigger a disturbed individual into such behaviors.

How this is done is to sever ones humanity through divisiveness, using the baser primal emotions. ALL of the mass shootings have the same signature: A lone gunman, who is young and disturbed, has some mental disorder and is loaded up on psychotropic drugs to mitigate their illness. The individual’s emotions are out of control, and are stimulated, the main aberrant emotion being rage. Hand this child a gun and mess with their mind, and it works pretty well.

These psychopaths also know how to make a psychopath, and they do this with their own progeny, through separation in infancy as well as torture and auto-suggestion, coupled with a painful or pleasurable response to the stimulus. This is basic operant conditioning, getting Pavlov’s dog to salivate when you ring the bell.

Couple this with a society which is taught and brainwashed into memes of divisiveness and war, is stimulated with images of guns and violence all through childhood, raised in a family where there is no nurturing, where isolation, aloneness, and rage are allowed to be fostered, and then load them up with drugs to keep them from expressing themselves, and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.

As a society we disdain mothers who stay at home and nurture their infant children, rather than go out into the workforce and chase materialism. We are forced into debt based commerce to provide for our basic needs, and in most cases it takes both parents working to support a household budget. We are born broke and most of us die broke, with the one percent psychopaths at the top retaining all of the wealth of this planet and using in for their own personal aggrandizement, or some ancient alien off world agenda. You name their pleasure, as there are as many as can be imagined, like the “Breakaway Civilization”.

All of our institutions in society are designed to keep us in slavery, governments, militaries, corporations, universities, media, and most of all religion. We are taught and have been taught for centuries that we come to earth as damaged goods and we need to be managed because our fellow man is evil, and this evil gene can be activated at any time.

So, over the last few years we have been inundated, with increased frequency, with these mass shootings. We are being conditioned, just like Pavlov’s dog, to salivate when the bell is rung. The memes of consciousness being pounded into our brains, when our emotions are running high, are that we are basically evil, we need a centralized control system, and we need more legislation to control behavior and to make us safe.

There have been more guns and ammo purchased since these memes of violence have been conditioned in the last few years. The rhetoric is that we need more gun legislation, but the reality is that we are being armed to the teeth. It’s almost as if they are setting up the scenario where everyone is armed, and then when a major failure in commerce occurs, some EMP which knocks out the electronic grid and forces us into civil disobedience, then we will kill each other to survive and they won’t have to waste one bullet on us cause we will do it ourselves DEMANDING a solution which ushers in a fully centralized digital system of commerce and behavior.

This is all bullsh1t. Humans are inherently empathic and are able to be in community and love each other and be compassionate towards each other. WE MAKE psychopaths by the way our society is set up!

We can also choose to get rid of the bastards at the top of the power pyramid, dismantle the structures of slavery, honor mothers and the nurturing of children, and teach the truth of the history of this planet and the nature of humanity, and participate in exchanging our energies without debt and subservience, and stand in our power and take responsibility for ourselves.

This is where we start if we want the killings to stop. It starts by going to the mirror and having a chat with the guy in the mirror. It then continues when you go hug your child and listen to them and nurture them, and teach them the truth. It continues when your child has a strong sense of boundary and their emotions are in balance and their intuition and common sense are fully developed. It continues when they can think for themselves and READ at least 12 books a year. It then continues when you STOP supporting the debt commerce structure as much as possible, and take personal responsibility for your own actualization and your own evolution and care.

Those who will benefit the most if guns are taken away are the tyrants. Until we destroy the tyrant/victim memes of divisiveness and war, and we have a shift in consciousness, then guns will be a part of our culture. When we grow up and quit playing like a bunch of spoiled kids in the cosmos, blowing up sh1t and freaking out the galactic community, we will not be invited to leave the quarantine of this planet. Until we fire the psychopathic controllers and send them back to where they came from and take responsibility for our OWN actions, then nothing will change. Till we dismantle the control grid, then we will remain at this level of consciousness.

It’s up to us. Mike, you can come back now.

[observer]

What he said.... cubed ^^^^

[Cidersomerset]

These can be seen as related.....'Problem Reaction Solution' ...Slowly
leading us towards the 'Totalitarian Tiptoe ' and a NWO.

Big Pharma and the medical drug cartels are certainly in the 'mind control ' mix.....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNuuKcvWcAINktx.jpg
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama Wants Your Guns, While U.S. Military Murders Millions with their Guns

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Untitled-33.jpg

‘Here we go again!

Following the tragic event in Oregon, New World Order puppet, United States
president Barack Hussein Obama, has been marched out to try to convince us
once more that guns are bad for us.Too bad the politician fails to mention that
the U.S. war machine, now under his control, is responsible for ruthlessly
murdering millions of innocent civilians, just in the past 14 years.’

President Obama Delivers a Statement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfmXxwC8P_M#t=1505

Read more: Obama Wants Your Guns, While U.S. Military Murders Millions with their Guns

http://americanfreepress.net/obama-wants-your-guns-while-u-s-military-murders-millions-with-their-guns/

================================================
================================================
================================================


US Seeks to Cut Europeans Out of Syria Peace Talks

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015 War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/get-attachment-21.jpg

‘With the UN General Assembly setting up a growing call for international negotiations
on ending the Syrian Civil War, the Obama Administration is taking a risky position,
reportedly trying to keep all Western European nations from taking part in the negotiations.

The international nature of the talks had most assuming that the P5+1 would be formally
involved, as they were with the Iran nuclear negotiations, but while the US is okay with
Russia being at the talks, they want to cut out the other four, meaning China and all
three EU members would be sidelined.

The real risk of including France, Germany, and Britain is the appeal to reasonableness
they are liable to bring to the table, as the US can count on the Saudis and Turkish
government to both unconditionally spurn any unity deal that keeps Assad in power
in any form, while the European nations are more likely to push for some sort of
compromise deal that starts a transition.’

Read more: US Seeks to Cut Europeans Out of Syria Peace Talks

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/01/us-seeks-to-cut-europeans-out-of-syria-peace-talks/

=================================================
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=================================================

Related to the greater geo - political picture...

World Leader Accuses Obama of TREASON on the Floor of the United Nations

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015


http://govtslaves.info/world-leader-accuses-obama-of-treason-on-the-floor-of-the-united-nations/

====================================================
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If the Neo - Con right wing NWO agenda has run its course. Change the clothing
and promote a Socialist Left wing NWO. Either way the 'Totalitarian tip toe' continues..

----------------------------------------------------------------------


At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015

----------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW AMERICAN.....


Monday, 28 September 2015
At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism
Written by Alex Newman

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/b17eca5e74a5bfc1213f152e4d983e7d_XL.jpg

‘A far-reaching United Nations plot to re-engineer civilization and impose
global socialism on humanity, variously dubbed “Agenda 2030” and the
“Sustainable Development Agenda,” was ushered in on Friday with a
“thunderous standing ovation,” the UN Department of Public Information
reported. Every one of the 193 UN member governments on the planet
— from communist and Islamist dictatorships to those ruling what remains
of the “Free World” — vowed to help impose the UN’s controversial goals
on their subjects. Indeed, according to the UN and the global agreement
itself, not a single human being will be allowed to escape what one prominent
internationalist ominously referred to as the next “Great Leap Forward.”’

Read more: At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-28/minority-report-40-years-ahead-schedule-fictional-world-has-become-reality

[Cidersomerset]

I know this is a big post and a lot of info , but it is related imo and you can pick
which article that takes the eye...

====================================================

Medicated to Death: SSRIs and Mass Killings

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015

An interesting James Corbett report on the connecting medication with violence.
Then add this to mind control , you have a potential time bomb.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Medicated to Death: SSRIs and Mass Killings

KeM0W9duWPg

Published on 16 Apr 2014


SUPPORT BFP: http://ur1.ca/ge4h7
TRANSCRIPT AND SOURCES: http://www.corbettreport.com/?p=9056

SSRI stands for Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor, and it is a class of
drugs that is often used to treat depression and anxiety. It includes Prozac,
Zoloft, Celexa, Paxil and a host of other commonly prescribed antidepressants.
And the perpetrators of a raft of school shootings, mass murders and other
violent incidents in recent years have been taking them.

Find out more about the correlation between SSRIs and mass murder in this
week's edition of the BoilingFrogsPost.com

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Psychiatric Drugs and Mass Shootings

SOJzZjK4XHk

Published on 15 Dec 2012


Fact: At least fourteen recent school shootings were committed by those taking or
withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 109 wounded and 58 killed (in other
school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither
confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs.)

Fact: Between 2004 and 2011, there have been over 11,000 reports to the U.S.
FDA's MedWatch system of psychiatric drug side effects related to violence. These
include 300 cases of homicide, nearly 3,000 cases of mania and over 7,000 cases of
aggression. Note: By the FDA's own admission, only 1-10% of side effects are ever
reported to the FDA, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most
certainly higher. http://www.cchr.org/

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

The Marketing of Madness: The Truth About Psychotropic Drugs

IgCpa1RlSdQ

Uploaded on 16 Oct 2011


Now showing on TON (The Occult Network): www.theoccultnetwork.com


The Marketing of Madness is the definitive documentary on the psychiatric drugging
industry. Here is the real story of the high income partnership between psychiatry
and drug companies that has created an $80 billion psychotropic drug profit center.


====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

There is one natural herbal remedy that may be used rather than medical and illegal
stronger drugs , for those in need. I have not taken drugs apart from the odd pint
of cider and that is getting less these days. Certainly what has been happening since
Corporate Pharma took over



First of Its Kind Study Finds Virtually No Driving Impairment Under the Influence of Marijuana

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015 The Police State

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/517500261.jpg

‘As cannabis prohibition laws crumble seemingly by the day, it’s allowing more
research to be performed on this psychoactive substance that has long been a part
of the human experience.

The first study to analyze the effects of cannabis on driving performance found that
it caused almost no impairment. The impairment that it did cause was similar to
that observed under the influence of a legal alcohol limit.’

Read more: First of Its Kind Study Finds Virtually No Driving Impairment Under the Influence of Marijuana

http://unreportedtoday.com/first-of-its-kind-study-finds-virtually-no-driving-impairment-under-the-influence-of-marijuana.html

===================================================
===================================================

Humanity v Insanity: Cannabis Oil cures cancer?

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015

HUMANITY vs INSANITY - #53 : PROOF Cannabis Oil CURES Cancer

PwqKkn0rIj8

Published on 30 Sep 2015


Less than 12mths ago, Cristina was given eight weeks to live and had her children
taken away from her as she was too ill to care for them. Despite being an NHS
Nurse for 30yrs, Catherine knew that orthodox Chemo & Radio-therapy treatment
would KILL Cristina ... but she was determined Cristina would defeat the Cancer.

This is their story ....

Gerald Heddell Director of the MHRA, is the socio-psychopath directly responsible
for witholding alternative treatments from the British public : https://youtu.be/wnppbrQv15E

====================================================
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Reality Check: Marijuana Did Not Kill Carly Fiorina’s Daughter, So What Did?

By David Icke on 30th September 2015

vfDRy5LakQI

Published on 22 Sep 2015
www.twitter.com/@benswann_
Carly Fiorina claimed in the CNN debate that drug addiction killed her daughter and
then stated that marijuana is not safer than alcohol... but Reality Check, marijuana
had nothing to do with her daughter's death... but alcohol did

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================


Corporate Pharma is by no means a US problem...


Your GP is being paid by the Tory government NOT to send you to hospital

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/get-attachment-120.jpg
===================================================

THE TELEGRPH......

How your GP is paid to stop you going to hospital

Doctors are being offered financial incentives to reduce outpatient referrals,
including two-week cancer waits and emergency admissions, study finds

By Victoria Ward, and Laura Donnelly
10:00PM BST 01 Oct 2015

Family doctors are being offered bonuses of thousands of pounds to reduce the
number of cancer patients sent to hospital, an investigation has found.

GP’s are being paid up to £11,000 to stop them sending cancer patients to hospital
and to stay within government guidelines.This blatant conflict of interest is being
slammed by the General Medical Council and is in direct opposition to the
governments targets which promised an 80% increase in tests for cancers.

Read more: Your GP is being paid by the Tory government NOT to send you to hospital

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11904082/How-your-GP-is-paid-to-stop-you-going-to-hospital.html

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" NO PROFFITS IN CHEAP CURES "...............


Cuba Developed a $1 Lung Cancer Vaccine but We Can’t Have It

By David Icke on 30th September 2015 Medical/Health

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/awright_cuba_01543-21.jpg

====================================================

http://www.wakingtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/WT-Logo-Color-Orange-Red-Fade-1.png

By WakingTimes September 29, 2015 13 Comments

Cuba Developed a $1 Lung Cancer Vaccine but We Can’t Have It


‘Most people would be quite surprised to learn that there is a vaccine for lung
cancer, one which has been proven effective in over 25 years of intense research
and several years of clinical use. So why is most of the world only learning about it
now? The answer is complicated by back-room dealings in the dark recesses of
government, and by the unhealthy influence that pharmaceutical companies have
on the availability of life-saving medications.

Cuba has faced many public health issues over the last few decades, one of the
gravest being related the country’s most famous export, tobacco. A rise in cases of
lung cancer prompted this small nation to develop a drug called CimaVax EGF,
which is now one of the most effective medications in existence to treat lung cancer.’

Read more: Cuba Developed a $1 Lung Cancer Vaccine but We Can’t Have It

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/09/29/cuba-developed-a-1-lung-cancer-vaccine-that-works-but-we-cant-have-it/

[Curt]

This is one of the smartest, most well-thought-out posts I've read in 4 years on this forum. My pressing thanks just wasn't going to cut it. It gets right to the heart of this issue in a rational, dispassionate way that brings clarity to the topic. Thank you.


I don't think calling something a "false flag" implies a lack of compassion for the real victims --or a lack of desire to have the shootings stop. It simply suggests that the perpetrator was not some random mentally ill lone gunman dude who just so happened to go out with his guns loaded to kill him some "Christians" and that there is a larger agenda at play.

IMO, as many have already stated, and at least from what I've heard so far, the Oregon UCC shooting has all the trappings of a false flag event -- but not necessarily a fake event. We've got the repeat of the ISIS theme of killing Christians, we've got politicians and the President all over the media demanding swift gun control measures before anyone can even figure out what really happened. We've got lots and lots of media attention, but very few details about the event itself. So I'm suspicious.

Were there real victims in this case? Maybe. I don't have enough information yet to decide. But maybe the perps finally realized that fake victims weren't playing too well with the public -- and that putting laughing "parents" of the victims on the air less than 24 hours after their child was allegedly gunned down to advocate for gun control raised too many red flags....so maybe this event involved real victims. Why would the PTB have any qualms about doing that?

And in that way, you've got the perfect scenario for everyone to turn against each other rather than to demand real answers from those who are feeding us this story and narrating how it happened. Seriously, it's demonically brilliant: plant enough clues so that the "conspiracy crowd" is freaking out over all the inconsistencies and tell-tale false flag signs, and then kill some real innocents so that the people shocked and outraged by the real killings are agreeing that gun control is the only answer and that those who are opposing that solution are conspiracy nuts, rednecks, lacking compassion, etc.

No normal person wants innocent people to die. No normal person wants school shootings to occur. And if we all believed that keeping guns only in the hands of the military and police would actually prevent that from happening, this wouldn't be such a divisive issue.

But once you believe that the government/military/police -- or some faction of it -- was behind even ONE of these high-profile shooting events, then a potentially real event by a real mentally ill lone gunman dude who wasn't mind controlled or a patsy or a black op mercenary, if there is really such a thing, still won't convince you that gun control is the answer. Dismantling the PTB is the answer, IMO.

Unfortunately, although I currently believe most of these high-profile shooting events are false flags (with real victims) to get more people rallying for gun control, I actually don't believe that the federal government is at all concerned about the limits of the Constitution. When they are ready to take the guns away, they will -- and without need to call a Constitutional Convention. Congress makes laws that violate the Constitution all the time. The President issues executive orders that also violate its terms. The Supreme Court is supposed to be the final arbiter to prevent that from happening....and we all know how that's been working out...

[Cidersomerset]

Oregon Shooting: 13 Troubling Signs Of Potentially Yet Another False Flag

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015 Problem-Reaction-Solution

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/false-flag-b1b-c.jpg

==============================================

ACTIVIST POST.......

Oregon Shooting: 13 Troubling Signs Of Potentially Yet Another False Flag

2nd October 2015

‘When you practice something all the time you eventually get very good at it.
The one thing many awakened and vigilant Americans have become good at
over the past few years is sniffing out government false flags because they
have so much practice at it. You may find that the events surrounding the
recent Umpqua Community College shooting in southern Oregon may ring a
few familiar false flag bells after you consider what the mainstream media is
saying about the shooting. It is at least extremely reasonable to suspect that
this is yet another gun control shooting false flag event since it has many of
the characteristics of it.

Sounds crazy? Yes, it always does. False flags are supposed to divide people in
addition to tricking them. But as I’ve said repeatedly in the past, when considering
a suspected false flag event you have to start somewhere. Look for the beneficiaries
of course and look for common patterns. I think many of us know the patterns by
now and what to look for when suspecting a false flag shooting.’

Read more: Oregon Shooting: 13 Troubling Signs Of Potentially Yet Another False Flag

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/10/oregon-shooting-13-troubling-signs-of-potentially-yet-another-false-flag.html

[jake gittes]

Bill posted that here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005431&viewfull=1#post1005431

[Cidersomerset]

Bill posted that here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1005431

Thanks Jake , I should have noticed that, must have been the 'Flag caption'...LOL


======================================================
In this 'Hang Out' discussion they discuss the shootings first 20 mins aprox, then
bring in the 2030 UN agenda , an article is posted in # 110 above. Then they
branch out into other alternate subjects.....


'REAL TALK' LIVE 10/2/15

_ajQxMuitZI

Streamed live on 2 Oct 2015


www.undergroundworldnews.com

https://twitter.com/dahboo7

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http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Oregon shooting: Gunman Chris Harper Mercer had 13 guns

3 October 2015
From the section US & Canada

The gunman who killed nine people in a shooting rampage at a college in Oregon
had 13 weapons, federal agents said.

Dressed in a flak jacket, Chris Harper Mercer brought six guns to Umpqua
Community College in Roseburg and opened fire on Thursday morning.

He was killed by police in a gun battle and another seven weapons were found at
his home. All 13 were bought legally.

Police have released the names of the victims, who ranged in age from 18 to 67.
The oldest was a teacher.

Survivors have been telling their stories.

Medicine student Sharon Kirkham told the BBC her friend Kim died in her arms
after being shot three times.

Read More....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34428410

[Selkie]

...I actually don't believe that the federal government is at all concerned about the limits of the Constitution. When they are ready to take the guns away, they will -- and without need to call a Constitutional Convention. Congress makes laws that violate the Constitution all the time. The President issues executive orders that also violate its terms. The Supreme Court is supposed to be the final arbiter to prevent that from happening....and we all know how that's been working out...

(my emphasis)

I wish I could agree with you, A.M., but I don't. The reason I don't is because if they try a gun grab, there will be open rebellion. Much better to make people want to change the Constitution.

I mean, if they can just grab the guns, why all the false flags (real victims or not)?

I think we are witness a manufacturing of consent, a manufacturing of consent that will give them the chance to change the Constitution so that everything unconstitutional they are doing now becomes the supreme law of the land.

Surveillance enshrined as the law of the land. Torture enshrined as the law of the land. No habeas corpus ever again. The ultimate dystopian society, the goal of utter control.

"...give me absolute control over every living soul, and lie beside me, baby, that's an order."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97OxHZzBeQ

Or maybe they will go for a gun grab and cause open rebellion. Maybe that's why all those federal departments and agencies have been buying hollow point bullets hand over fist?

[observer]

I live in a rural area. Everyone I know is a fire arm owner.

I can testify what Selkie said above ^^^^ is absolutely correct. I don't know a single individual fire arms owner who wouldn't tell you, "they'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers".

[heyokah]

Beside 2 or 3 members of the UK, there are no European members contributing to this thread and I can understand why.
This whole gun possession thing is so far 'from our beds' and almost a non-issue for us.

No, we're not allowed to have guns here in Europe. Still we're doing fine here up till now, as the EU murder rate is far lower than the US.

In the US almost 11.730 people were murdered last year by firearms.
The US has 3.3 murders per 100,000 citizens. (About 32 per day!).

In comparison:
Japan has 0.4 murders per 100,000 residents. Canada, 0.5. Australia 0.1

In Europe:
The Netherlands 0.3 - Germany has 0.2 - France 0.1 - and Britain, who has recently garnered media attention for being the most dangerous wealthy European nation, has 0.1 murders per 100.000. (About 38 per year).

Could there be any correlation between gun restrictions and the number of humans being killed?

Those reptoids, feeding on the human species are having an extra dessert in this Eye for an Eye society.
Or is there an other reason for "this form of blood sacrifice"?

I think Grip sums it up very well.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005778&viewfull=1#post1005778

*
I think I'm not realizing yet what I did just now, by daring to post about this issue, as one of those scary socialist Europeans, but I jumped into the water, blindly, with the risk to be torn into pieces by the Brave and the Free :wink:

****The two first ones have arrived already.:clapping:

[Cidersomerset]

Obama Ignores Shootings In Heavy Gun Restricted Chicago

5NGIJzSRs68

Published on 2 Oct 2015

Following the mass shooting in Oregon Thursday, the president delivered a 12
minute tirade about the need for stricter gun control laws, and admitted he was
politicizing the incident before the body count was even in.
http://www.infowars.com/selective-out...

http://www.teapartytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/facebook.com-thomas-jefferson2.jpg

====================================================


President Obama said that when other countries like the UK ,which in many
respects share the same culture. Fire arms is a big difference , the civil
police , 'Bobbies' on the beat are still unarmed and there is an unwritten respect
between the police and the population as a whole. There are exceptions
in the big cities and Towns, but on the whole 'fire arms' have not been a big part
of 'protection or hunting' as our wild west / frontier period happened in the sword &
sandal period so to speak.

We only needed a couple of possible 'false flag ' shooting events in the late
198O's/90's . Hungerford in England and Dunblane in Scotland. At the time most
people believed what we were told, and as only a very few people had guns , they
were able to put gun control into place. Apart from Northern Ireland as the
'troubles ' were still full flow , and the 30 years of 'terrorism'played out on TV most
evenings was also part of our national psyche to expect the state to protect us in
exchange for loss of some privacy. Also the cold war was still going on and after
with the war on terror meme now playing , Cameras and other surveillance has
been excepted on the whole. Except they do not seem to work when a 'false flag'
attack happens !!

So trying to do the same in the US , which is a vastly bigger country and has a
massively bigger private gun ownership. It just is not going to happen peacefully
as far as I can see...


Hungerford massacre 1987

http://www.pacovilla.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/th9-300x199.jpg
Michael Ryan in 1986
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

Dunblane school massacre 1996

http://www.policeoracle.com/news/files/file625.jpg
Thomas Hamilton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

http://angryblackladychronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/20121215-172140.jpg

=============================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Mass shootings and gun control

2 June 2010 ...From the section UK
Multiple shootings are extremely rare in the UK and most incidents involving
two or more deaths have been related to organised crime, such as feuds
between drug dealers or gangs.

The Cumbria incident is the third mass-shooting incident in the UK in which
a lone gunman has roamed around seeking out victims. Each of the previous
incidents led to greater restrictions on firearms.

Hungerford: 19 August 1987


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10216955


==========================================

Although you cannot compare the US and UK situation.Gun control or not you
cannot stop a genuine 'shooter' As the BBC article above said both Hungerford and
Dunblane were catalysts for gun control. That's why the third one below was
probably genuine.

Cumbria shootings

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/04/article-1283871-09DC1AD0000005DC-673_224x332.jpg

The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010
when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others
before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford
massacre, the 1989 Monkseaton shootings, and the 1996 Dunblane school
massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history.

The series of attacks began in mid-morning in Lamplugh and moved to Frizington,
Whitehaven, Egremont, Gosforth, and Seascale, sparking a major manhunt by the
Cumbria Constabulary, with assistance from Civil Nuclear Constabulary officers.

Bird, a 52-year-old local taxi driver, was later found dead in a wooded area,
having abandoned his vehicle in the village of Boot. Two weapons that appeared
to have been used in the shootings were recovered. A total of 30 different crime
scenes were investigated. The event was the worst shooting incident in Britain
since the Dunblane school massacre, in which 18 people died.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

[Selkie]

Those anti-gun laws sure worked real great to protect everyone during the Charlie Hebdo attack,


This cartoon cover, by the French satiric magazine Charlie Hebdo, is credited with provoking last week’s deadly attack in Paris against the magazine’s offices. It depicts a caricature of the prophet Muhammad for the special “Sharia Hebdo” issue, declaring, “100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter!"

http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/featured/cov-cartoon-mohamed.jpg

http://www.jewishjournal.com/jesuisjuif/article/freedom_to_offend_a_collection_of_cartoons



Charlie Hebdo editor and cartoonist Stephane Charbonnier, known as Charb, was among the 12 people killed in a terror attack Wednesday, January 7, at the magazine's offices in Paris. On January 9, four hostages were killed when a gunman seized a Jewish grocery store and killed them before police moved in


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30708237

At 11:30 local time (10:30 GMT) on Wednesday 7 January, a black Citroen C3 drove up to the Charlie Hebdo building in Rue Nicolas-Appert. Two masked gunmen, dressed in black and armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles got out and approached the offices.

They burst into number 6, Rue Nicolas-Appert, before realising they had the wrong address. They then moved down the street to number 10 - where the Charlie Hebdo offices are on the second floor.

Once inside, the men - now known to be brothers Cherif and Said Kouachi - asked maintenance staff in reception where the magazine's offices were, before shooting dead caretaker Frederic Boisseau.

One of the magazine's cartoonists, Corinne Rey, described how she had just returned to the building after picking up her daughter from day care when the gunmen threatened her, forcing her to enter the code for the keypad entry to the newsroom on the second floor - where a weekly editorial meeting was taking place.

The men opened fire and killed the editor's police bodyguard, Franck Brinsolaro, before asking for editor Stephane Charbonnier, known as Charb, and other four cartoonists by name and killing them, along with three other editorial staff and a guest attending the meeting.

Witnesses said they had heard the gunmen shouting "We have avenged the Prophet Muhammad" and "God is Great" in Arabic while calling out the names of the journalists.

Police, alerted to a shooting incident, arrived at the scene as the gunmen were leaving the building.

[observer]

[....snip]
I think Grip sums it up very well.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005778&viewfull=1#post1005778




[....snip]
Those who will benefit the most if guns are taken away are the tyrants. Until we destroy the tyrant/victim memes of divisiveness and war, and we have a shift in consciousness, then guns will be a part of our culture. When we grow up and quit playing like a bunch of spoiled kids in the cosmos, blowing up sh1t and freaking out the galactic community, we will not be invited to leave the quarantine of this planet. Until we fire the psychopathic controllers and send them back to where they came from and take responsibility for our OWN actions, then nothing will change. Till we dismantle the control grid, then we will remain at this level of consciousness.

My emphasis,

These are the words I read in grip's summation that resounded with me.

I agree totally with what he said, "When we grow up and quit playing like a bunch of spoiled kids in the cosmos", but allow me to ask, whom will you allow the authority to 'wake-up' the Masses? The current psychopathic Global Masters? Not on the soil where I was born!

It is the Masses that must wake-up first. When that time comes, the fire arms will be willingly laid-down.

[Selkie]

I will let Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp, the woman who survived the Lubby's Cafeteria shooting, to speak for herself,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sEYGcXSmpQ

[Cidersomerset]

Britains worst known modern Mass Murderer was a doctor !!!

Apart from Blair , Bush and the gang & other historical figures.

http://galacticconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/get-attachment-2211-560x339.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Harold Shipman: The killer doctor

http://www.wikinoticia.com/images/depsicologia/depsicologia.com.wp-content.uploads.shipman4_thumb.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3391897.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harold Shipman Biography

Murderer, Doctor (1946–2004)

British serial killer Harold Shipman, who worked in England as a
medical doctor, killed over 200 of his patients before his arrest in 1998.

http://www.biography.com/people/harold-shipman-17169712#synopsis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Which ties in nicely with the article I posted earlier above..# 111...LOL


Corporate Pharma is by no means a US problem...


Your GP is being paid by the Tory government NOT to send you to hospital

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/get-attachment-120.jpg
===================================================

THE TELEGRPH......

How your GP is paid to stop you going to hospital

Doctors are being offered financial incentives to reduce outpatient referrals,
including two-week cancer waits and emergency admissions, study finds

By Victoria Ward, and Laura Donnelly
10:00PM BST 01 Oct 2015

Family doctors are being offered bonuses of thousands of pounds to reduce the
number of cancer patients sent to hospital, an investigation has found.

GP’s are being paid up to £11,000 to stop them sending cancer patients to hospital
and to stay within government guidelines.This blatant conflict of interest is being
slammed by the General Medical Council and is in direct opposition to the
governments targets which promised an 80% increase in tests for cancers.

Read more: Your GP is being paid by the Tory government NOT to send you to hospital

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11904082/How-your-GP-is-paid-to-stop-you-going-to-hospital.html

[risveglio]

Gun related crimes in the US is down 66% since 1993. Overall crime rate is down from 8% to less than 2%. Gun ownership is up 50%. For the US, more guns means far less crime.

[heyokah]

[....snip]
I think Grip sums it up very well.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005778&viewfull=1#post1005778



[........ snip]

I agree totally with what he said, "When we grow up and quit playing like a bunch of spoiled kids in the cosmos", but allow me to ask, whom will you allow the authority to 'wake-up' the Masses? The current psychopathic Global Masters? Not on the soil where I was born!

It is the Masses that must wake-up first. When that time comes, the fire arms will be willingly laid-down.

That's exactly what I meant !

[Selkie]

Britains worst known modern Mass Murderer was a doctor !!!

Apart from Blair , Bush and the gang & other historical figures.

http://galacticconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/get-attachment-2211-560x339.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Harold Shipman: The killer doctor

http://www.wikinoticia.com/images/depsicologia/depsicologia.com.wp-content.uploads.shipman4_thumb.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3391897.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harold Shipman Biography

Murderer, Doctor (1946–2004)

British serial killer Harold Shipman, who worked in England as a
medical doctor, killed over 200 of his patients before his arrest in 1998.

http://www.biography.com/people/harold-shipman-17169712#synopsis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Which ties in nicely with the article I posted earlier above..# 111...LOL


Corporate Pharma is by no means a US problem...


Your GP is being paid by the Tory government NOT to send you to hospital

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/get-attachment-120.jpg
===================================================

THE TELEGRPH......

How your GP is paid to stop you going to hospital

Doctors are being offered financial incentives to reduce outpatient referrals,
including two-week cancer waits and emergency admissions, study finds

By Victoria Ward, and Laura Donnelly
10:00PM BST 01 Oct 2015

Family doctors are being offered bonuses of thousands of pounds to reduce the
number of cancer patients sent to hospital, an investigation has found.

GP’s are being paid up to £11,000 to stop them sending cancer patients to hospital
and to stay within government guidelines.This blatant conflict of interest is being
slammed by the General Medical Council and is in direct opposition to the
governments targets which promised an 80% increase in tests for cancers.

Read more: Your GP is being paid by the Tory government NOT to send you to hospital

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11904082/How-your-GP-is-paid-to-stop-you-going-to-hospital.html

Very low murder rate, no guns, blah...blah...blah, and yet Britain still feels the need to surveil its people half to death,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6108496.stm

I prefer to take my chances with armed nuts and false flags to being watched all the time, wherever I go.

[Selkie]

Gun related crimes in the US is down 66% since 1993. Overall crime rate is down from 8% to less than 2%. Gun ownership is up 50%. For the US, more guns means far less crime.

Yes. It always has, and it always will. Not to mention that most of the homicides are black-on-black,

http://mantalk.mobi/media/race%202.png[COLOR="red"]

[Cidersomerset]

Very low murder rate, no guns, blah...blah...blah, and yet Britain still feels the need to surveil its people half to death,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6108496.stm

I prefer to take my chances with armed nuts and false flags to being watched all the time, wherever I go.

Its not that bad and most of the cameras do not work , Its great in the 'shires' .
But we must not be complacent and that could change. Luckily for you America
is big and I expect you can dodge the bullets. But its the next steps that are
worrying. Cashless society, micro chipping , NWO chaos to gain control.

The old maxim 'Order out of chaos'.......Luckily enough I don't think it will happen
as long as the 2nd amendment is not repealed , so in a odd way what happens with
guns in the US will effect what might happen here.Though I would like to see better
gun control , with a gradual reductions of weapons that have flooded the US
recently. There will still be plenty for those who want one.

The bigger problem is illegal weapons used by the gangs and cartels , that
does muddy the waters and should not be thrown in with lawful gun owners
who aquire and keep their weapons responsibly.

[Selkie]

*
I think I'm not realizing yet what I did just now, by daring to post about this issue, as one of those scary socialist Europeans, but I jumped into the water, blindly, with the risk to be torn into pieces by the Brave and the Free :wink:

****The two first ones have arrived already.:clapping:

(my emphasis)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/announcement.php?f=3

2. ‘TROLLING’
• An internet ‘troll’ (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) is someone who posts controversial, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as our forum, with the intention or agenda of provoking (‘hooking’) other users into an emotional response — or to generally disrupt normal, healthy, on-topic discussion. Members who seem to be trolling risk losing their membership and posting rights.



(my emphasis)

This is a sensitive and highly-charged subject, and comments such as the ones above are not helpful.

[Selkie]

Very low murder rate, no guns, blah...blah...blah, and yet Britain still feels the need to surveil its people half to death,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6108496.stm

I prefer to take my chances with armed nuts and false flags to being watched all the time, wherever I go.

Its not that bad and most of the cameras do not work , Its great in the 'shires' .
But we must not be complacent and that could change. Luckily for you America
is big and I expect you can dodge the bullets. But its the next steps that are
worrying. Cashless society, micro chipping , NWO chaos to gain control.

The old maxim 'Order out of chaos'.......Luckily enough I don't think it will happen
as long as the 2nd amendment is not repealed , so in a odd way what happens with
guns in the US will effect what might happen here.Though I would like to see better
gun control , with a gradual reductions of weapons that have flooded the US
recently. There will still be plenty for those who want one.

I'm glad to hear that the surveillance is not that bad...seriously. In the States they make it sound like it is very bad. I suspect that they so something similar with the gun violence here in the States.

[gripreaper]

Currently there are over 600,000 laws on the books, by a globalist corporatocracy masquerading as national sovereign governments, using corporate administrative agencies to profiteer off of human resources and using their administrative courts to foster compliance, through debt, to their global slave agenda.

Do we really want these corporate administrative agencies who answer to no one other than the globalists to tighten control and remove the last vestiges of sovereignty from the people? Do we really need more legislation to control behavior? Do we really believe that centralizing control and giving more power to the very ones who generate the Manchurians who do these mass shootings, is a good idea? Do we really want to march in lockstep with their memes of consciousness, their fear mongering, their ritualistic sacrifice, and their eugenics agendas?

Of course there are legitimate lone gunman who have lost their humanity and blame it on someone who they feel they need to kill to avenge their pain, but I've addressed this in an earlier post. The way this thread seems to be headed is we need more legislation by the controllers who foment these types of incidents, to restrict behaviors and to increase monitoring of the populace. I just don't see how that is going to help, and those who "think" they can just fly under the radar because they are good empathic souls and are not breaking any laws, so are therefore safe, are deluding themselves.

[awakeningmom]

...I actually don't believe that the federal government is at all concerned about the limits of the Constitution. When they are ready to take the guns away, they will -- and without need to call a Constitutional Convention. Congress makes laws that violate the Constitution all the time. The President issues executive orders that also violate its terms. The Supreme Court is supposed to be the final arbiter to prevent that from happening....and we all know how that's been working out...

(my emphasis)

I wish I could agree with you, A.M., but I don't. The reason I don't is because if they try a gun grab, there will be open rebellion. Much better to make people want to change the Constitution.

I mean, if they can just grab the guns, why all the false flags (real victims or not)?

I think we are witness a manufacturing of consent, a manufacturing of consent that will give them the chance to change the Constitution so that everything unconstitutional they are doing now becomes the supreme law of the land.

Surveillance enshrined as the law of the land. Torture enshrined as the law of the land. No habeas corpus ever again. The ultimate dystopian society, the goal of utter control.

"...give me absolute control over every living soul, and lie beside me, baby, that's an order."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97OxHZzBeQ

Or maybe they will go for a gun grab and cause open rebellion. Maybe that's why all those federal departments and agencies have been buying hollow point bullets hand over fist?

Hi Selkie,
I agree with you that what is going on right now with all the false flags is an attempt to manufacture consent. I also agree that there will likely be open rebellion from at least a portion of Americans if there were an overt gun grab.

My point, however, is that effective gun control can happen without the need for a Constitutional Convention, which is an extraordinarily difficult method of change, requiring 2/3rd of all state legislatures to first call for an amendment, with later ratification required by 3/4th of the state legislatures. (I believe a proposal to amend the Constitution can also be initiated by Congress by a vote of two-thirds of both the House and the Senate, followed by a ratification of the proposed amendment by 3/4 of the state legislatures -- but that isn't technically a Constitutional Convention). Any other attempts to literally change or dismantle the Constitution via other amendments would have to go through the same laborious process....

So, if I were part of the evil PTB, I'd think: Why not bypass that time-consuming and difficult process entirely? The Second Amendment does give the right to bear arms, but it doesn't provide any details on what restrictions could be put on that right.

So, personally, I see the effective removal of guns happening through: first, a rallying cry/demand for strict gun control from Americans freaked out by all these false flag shootings (manufactured consent through problem/reaction), followed by the enactment of a strict federal gun control law that significantly erodes the purpose of the Second Amendment (i.e., solution, via things like limiting the types of permissible guns to hunting rifles or single revolvers, onerous registration requirements and pre-clearance checks, severe penalties for various minor violations, onerous annual registration fees, etc.).

I'm not a gun owner myself so don't really know the current process for getting one, but I imagine that a federal law could make owning a gun either more trouble than its worth (to some) -- or turn those people who own guns more powerful than a hunting rifle into identifiable (and easily rounded up) outlaws.

And unfortunately, I see a Federal Gun Control Act being pushed through by our corrupt Congress and signed into law by our corrupt President, and, upon being challenged, upheld by our corrupt Supreme Court -- especially if most asleep Americans are demanding this solution.

So I think we agree on the major things -- that there is a manufacturing of consent going on and that there would be open rebellion by at least some citizens if there were an overt grab, but I think we just disagree on the process that will be used to start effective gun removal....

[Selkie]

http://geniusquotes.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Benjamin-Franklin-Liberty-quote.jpg

http://excellentquotations.com/Images-EQ/quotesImages/6801-ExcellentQuotations.com-Benjamin-Franklin.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6uW-e24gf5g/UPSmSwOAw8I/AAAAAAAAJU0/6xDHESlhg8k/s1600/ninetymilesxtk1oG1s1n67qo1_500.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

The way this thread seems to be headed is we need more legislation by the controllers who foment these types of incidents,

Control is the wrong word , though I used it..LOL. There are enough rules
and regulations on the books as you say. I don't know if it is feasible to
get rid of illegal weapons ? and it would not stop 'false flag ' events as
most mind control victims usually have access to weapons.

Also the gangs and Cartels that I was really thinking of would find some other
way to ' rumble' .

[gripreaper]

So I think we agree on the major things -- that there is a manufacturing of consent going on and that there would be open rebellion by at least some citizens if there were an overt grab

Your earlier post in this thread deserves the accolades Curt has given it, and you bring a very balanced view to the debate. I agree with you. The pounding of the memes into consciousness is working to break down the resistance and is manufacturing consent, and one day they will get their consent of the governed. Already in my own family I hear cries for more legislation and more control.

And you are right, those who stand against the status-quo global consciousness will be marginalized and made into criminals, and who knows how that will pan out in the next 20 years. Those who say, you can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold dead hands really mean it when they say that, so at some point, the only guns out there will be the unregistered guns that move underground.

They will be useless against a totalitarian militarized police force with all of the latest technology, body armor and protective vehicles. It's Waco on steroids.

[Selkie]

..The Second Amendment does give the right to bear arms, but it doesn't provide any details on what restrictions could be put on that right...

Oh, but it does. The Second Amendment reads,


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


in·fringe

/inˈfrinj/

verb

past tense: infringed; past participle: infringed

actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.).
"making an unauthorized copy would infringe copyright"

synonyms: contravene, violate, transgress, break, breach; More
disobey, defy, flout, fly in the face of;

disregard, ignore, neglect;

go beyond, overstep, exceed;

infract

"the statute infringed constitutionally guaranteed rights"

antonyms: obey, comply with

•act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.
"his legal rights were being infringed"

synonyms: restrict, limit, curb, check, encroach on


http://quotespictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/a-well-regulated-militia-composed-of-the-body-of-the-people-trained-in-arms-democracy-quote.jpg

[heyokah]

*
I think I'm not realizing yet what I did just now, by daring to post about this issue, as one of those scary socialist Europeans, but I jumped into the water, blindly, with the risk to be torn into pieces by the Brave and the Free :wink:

****The two first ones have arrived already.:clapping:

(my emphasis)


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/announcement.php?f=3

2. ‘TROLLING’
• An internet ‘troll’ (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) is someone who posts controversial, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as our forum, with the intention or agenda of provoking (‘hooking’) other users into an emotional response — or to generally disrupt normal, healthy, on-topic discussion. Members who seem to be trolling risk losing their membership and posting rights.



(my emphasis)

This is a sensitive and highly-charged subject, and comments such as the ones above are not helpful.

I see your sense of humor differs from that of mine. Maybe it's the difference in culture. I'm a Dutch Heyokah. (http://www.planetdeb.net/spirit/heyokah.htm) So be it.
Sorry if I offended you.

Have I offended anybody else? Just PM me (so we won't spoil the thread) and I will help you out of your 'suffering' and delete the last sentence of my post.:)

[Omni]

I haven't spent the time to review all of this thread. But I hope someone has mentioned it being a distraction(in part)...

Every time this happens the conspiracy people spread posts about it like wildfire on forums and social media. I have wondered with how blatant and/or questionable some have been, if they were deliberate distractions. They don't wake a lot of people up, there is always another explanation. And it gets like 50% of the attention on forums every time it happens.

I do think posting can be good for analysis of this, so I'm not saying its bad. Just noting some thoughts...

[Selkie]

I haven't spent the time to review all of this thread. But I hope someone has mentioned it being a distraction(in part)...

The event itself is a distraction, I agree, but I don't think the discussion of it is.

[awakeningmom]

..The Second Amendment does give the right to bear arms, but it doesn't provide any details on what restrictions could be put on that right...

Oh, but it does. The Second Amendment reads,


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


in·fringe

/inˈfrinj/

verb

past tense: infringed; past participle: infringed

actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.).
"making an unauthorized copy would infringe copyright"

synonyms: contravene, violate, transgress, break, breach; More
disobey, defy, flout, fly in the face of;

disregard, ignore, neglect;

go beyond, overstep, exceed;

infract

"the statute infringed constitutionally guaranteed rights"

antonyms: obey, comply with

•act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.
"his legal rights were being infringed"

synonyms: restrict, limit, curb, check, encroach on


http://quotespictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/a-well-regulated-militia-composed-of-the-body-of-the-people-trained-in-arms-democracy-quote.jpg

Yes -- I agree it says that. But that's what lawyers do all the time: debate over the meaning of specific words or phrases in a law. Fifty page briefs are written and filed in court every day debating the meaning of a single word or phrase in a law and how a court should interpret it. The battle of the dictionaries is waged, along with arguments about original intent of the Founding Fathers (or Congress or the legislature), maxims of statutory construction are offered, precedent is dissected....etc. It's amazing how one word or phrase can be interpreted in multiple ways.

And that's exactly what would happen here: A federal gun control act would be enacted. It would of course be challenged in court by Second Amendment advocates, most likely on the very basis you identified, and both sides would argue the meaning of "shall not be infringed."

The governmental side supporting the Federal Gun Control Act would have brilliant (or at least colorable) arguments about why this doesn't restrict reasonable limits on gun ownership, and why the word "infringed" means something else entirely...yada yada yada.

If the U.S. Supreme Court weren't corrupt, if it were really concerned with the intent of the Founding Fathers, and if it were really there to strictly interpret the Constitution, your side might win. But it is corrupt, and your side probably wouldn't win. "Shall not be infringed" will end up meaning something far less than what we thought/knew it meant.

Just my own bummer of a cynical opinion. Hope I'm wrong!

[ZooLife]

I normally do not weigh in on such matters but what the hel......

I believe the type of people that advocate gun control are not doing their due diligence (BTW, who is the one qualified to control the guns, the one who says they are?) . Gun control advocates are focused on treating the symptoms instead of getting to the root of the problem. It's easier because there is this feeling of DOING SOMETHING, sure, but it isn't going to solve the problem and very most likely will make the problem much worse in the long run.

What entity wants people to focus on anything but itself? A government, and more specifically that which runs the government from the shadows, that's who!

Is it no wonder who REALLY salivates for gun control of a nation or world?

[Cidersomerset]

I haven't spent the time to review all of this thread.
But I hope someone has mentioned it being a distraction(in part)...

Yeah it has been brought up and they talk about on this vid from #115 I think ? ..LOL


In this 'Hang Out' discussion they discuss the shootings first 20 mins aprox, then
bring in the 2030 UN agenda , an article is posted in # 110 above. Then they
branch out into other alternate subjects.....


'REAL TALK' LIVE 10/2/15

_ajQxMuitZI

Streamed live on 2 Oct 2015


www.undergroundworldnews.com

https://twitter.com/dahboo7

[Selkie]

...If the U.S. Supreme Court weren't corrupt, if it were really concerned with the intent of the Founding Fathers, and if it were really there to strictly interpret the Constitution, your side might win. But it is corrupt, and your side probably wouldn't win. "Shall not be infringed" will end up meaning something far less than what we thought/knew it meant.

Just my own bummer of a cynical opinion. Hope I'm wrong!

I don't think your opinion is cynical at all...I think its highly realistic.

And that is why Second Amendment advocates are so adamant that no one will take their guns, no matter what.

Here is a joke I came across one time that I think applies here,


A: If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
B: Five?
A: No, four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

[Selkie]

http://truthstreammedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-GUN-CONFISCATOIN-TASK-FORCE-MEME.jpg

[observer]

Cross-post from another thread:


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t256/Helvetic/ssp_banner_big_zps60aivsoq.jpg


Confirmed Speakers

Catherine Austin Fitts
Dr Joseph P Farrell
Linda Moulton Howe
Dr Paul LaViolette
Dr John Brandenburg
Walter Bosley
Olav Phillips
Jay Dyer
Dark Journalist Daniel Liszt


Conference Discount for Project Avalon

For a $15 discount on the two-day admission tickets use the coupon code: sspimb2015

For a $10 discount on the LIVESTREAM ticket use the coupon code: sspimb2015

You can enter this code during the checkout process.


Tickets
http://secretspaceprogram.org/tickets/


"We Have A System Of Security That Is Out Of Control
We Want To Expose It"


This is the foundational reason they want our fire arms - ABSOLUTE CONTROL!!!

[bruno dante]

I'm with Mike on this one 100% (Only my Maher video is much better:wink:)

As we all know, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. Which makes the majority doubly insane because they keep doing the same thing over and over, even when they know what the result is going to be: mass killings by guns.
We all act as if these shootings are just an unfortunate byproduct of our 2nd amendment rights, shrug our shoulders, and walk off. It truly is insane.

I think this video says it all:
tTpCUAK4ypA

[ZooLife]

Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations


The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police.




I think this video says it all:
tTpCUAK4ypA

Yeah, it says it all.....just not the way you think it does.

[risveglio]

I'm with Mike on this one 100% (Only my Maher video is much better:wink:)

As we all know, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. Which makes the majority doubly insane because they keep doing the same thing over and over, even when they know what the result is going to be: mass killings by guns.
We all act as if these shootings are just an unfortunate byproduct of our 2nd amendment rights, shrug our shoulders, and walk off. It truly is insane.

I think this video says it all:
tTpCUAK4ypA

Wow, Bill Maher. A guy more partisan than Bill O'Reilly. The guy is an opportunist and not very bright. Oregon has the universal background checks that the left insists would stop these massacres and 92% or the mass shootings have been happening in gun free school zones. I bet if Chris Mintz had his firearm with him, this massacre would have been much smaller but nobody outside of Oregon would have heard about it because it wouldn't fit the narrative. Please nothing else from Bill Maher if you want to be taken seriously.


Remember when Bill Maher was anti-war. Let me know if he talks about the bombings in Afganistan during his shtty show this week.
https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/03/us-airstrikes-hit-afghan-hospitalbombard

[gripreaper]

I'm with Mike on this one 100%

I don't know what you mean bruno. All I heard Mike say is that he is heartsick over the deaths of innocents and that something needs to be done. The way I read it, he did not advocate what that "something" would be, only that we have this recurring nightmare every few months now in our culture.


(Only my Maher video is much better:wink:)

The Maher video disgusts me and is not in the least any representation of the 350 million people in the bankrupt corporate UNITED STATES INC.


As we all know, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. Which makes the majority doubly insane because they keep doing the same thing over and over, even when they know what the result is going to be: mass killings by guns.

And what exactly is it that these 350 million people keep doing over and over which is insane, and maybe you could postulate what we "should" be doing. Be sure to give proper context to your proposal.


We all act as if these shootings are just an unfortunate byproduct of our 2nd amendment rights, shrug our shoulders, and walk off. It truly is insane.

I'm sorry Bruno but this is not what I see happening and quite frankly, I don't know who you are talking to when you say "WE ALL" or what your point really is. If you are saying that there is an element in our society that has lost it's humanity and is thus mentally ill, and needs to be quarantined and there needs to be some way to find these insane people before they get a hold of guns, I'm not totally disagreeing with this premise, but I have a few questions:

So, we need a global surveillance grid, where every action and every transaction of every person on planet earth is monitored, and this information is kept in a global database? This database is linked to all banks, municipalities, police forces, and militaries (which by the way get to retain their powerful weapons, their powerful armor, and their free exercise thereof).

Then, this database will categorize people into different levels of miscreant, based on their habits and behaviors, and then will be categorized as to their threat to the safety of the oligarchs, ahem "cough...cough" I mean the safety of their fellow man?

Then, based on someones idea of what criteria is relevant to categorize people, all of us will be labeled and categorized, and our ability to move about freely will be determined by the legislated and approved behaviors, limited by the constraints of societal norms.

So, let's take a look at Johnny's file, shall we? Oh, look here, he was late on his credit card payments and he defaulted on one of them. He's not making his student loan payments either. Darn, he also has three traffic violations and driving without insurance. He's not paying his fines and court costs! He also does not have mandated health insurance and paid a fine to the IRS last year. Too bad, that would have been a nice tax return he was counting on to get an apartment. Wow, look at this! He was evicted from his apartment last year because he did not pay his rent! He's also been unable to keep his job because of his traffic fines and he could not afford insurance, or pay the court costs, or pay the increased interest charges on his credit cards and student loans, and pay the increased insurance premiums. Jeez, he has been unemployed now for over a year! He has been approached several times now by police on the street and asked to get off the street, but he has nowhere to go. He cannot find a job, has no place to live, and no transportation.

We should probably not let him buy a gun.

You see where this goes? All you who advocate that some bureaucracy legislate and make more laws need to ask yourself, why are you turning over the last of your sovereignty to the globalist banksters and their minions? Show me any single government now on this planet that is not bought and paid for by the globalists and are NOT bringing in the totalitarian central control, and please give us your ideas on how to stop the destruction of our children by societies norms, and the religions, and tell us how you will bring balance and peace to planet earth.

Not some sick joke of a video by Bill Maher.

[Selkie]

Yes. People p*** and moan about how we give away our power, and yet they insist we give up our guns and rely on the government to protect us instead of relying on ourselves.

https://preparednesspro.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/woman-defending-herself.jpg

http://paradoxoff.com/files/2007/07/when-911-wont-answer-your-call.jpg

http://westernjournalismcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Guns-Women-09.jpg

[Bill Ryan]

Could there be any correlation between gun restrictions and the number of humans being killed?



I don't think so. Almost every household in Switzerland has a gun (because of their tradition of compulsory military national service), yet it's one of the safest countries to live in that there is.

And it's also very similar in Canada. It's people who kill, not the guns. And people are different in different parts of the world.

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png


Oregon shooting: Gunman killed himself

1 hour ago......From the section US & Canada


Short vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34436373

The gunman who killed nine people in a shooting rampage at a college in
the US state Oregon then killed himself as police arrived, officials have said.

At a news conference in Roseburg, they revealed that Chris Harper Mercer,
26, was enrolled in the class where the shooting took place.

They said that 14 weapons were later found at his home and the college.

Police earlier released the names of the victims, who ranged in age from
18 to 67. The oldest was a teacher.

President Barack Obama on Friday expressed his anger at gun violence,
calling on the public to press their politicians to support reform.


'Gasping for air'

"The medical examiner has determined the cause of death of the shooter to
be suicide," Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin told reporters on Saturday


Read more ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34436373

[Cidersomerset]

Something probably already mentioned but since I'm looking at the article
there is a major policing problem in some parts of the states , that seems
to have got worse over the past decade. Whether its because there are more
incidents recorded on camera ? or its quality of recruits or training ?

There are incidents in the press virtually every day on the headline page
recently, and there have been some horrific incidents reported. In the past
the US police and national guard have used excessive force on occasion ,
but most of these recent incidents are avoidable.


Police State....link to articles There are some sad and horrible incidents not only from the US...

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/category/the-police-state/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police Taser and Beat Innocent Disabled Vet, Hold
Quadriplegic Wife at Gunpoint and Demand She Stand

By David Icke on 1st October 2015 The Police State

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/get-attachment-490.jpg

‘An innocent disabled couple has filed a lawsuit against the Delaware state police
for unconscionable horrors inflicted upon them during a fruitless early morning raid.

Ruther Hayes, a disabled veteran, was severely beaten by police officers during
the raid as he attempted to give his wife Lisa a sponge bath. Lisa Hayes is a
quadriplegic with cerebral palsy who was receiving a sponge bath on the bed
when multiple officers forced their way into the couple’s bedroom.

When he saw the officers enter the room, Ruther Hayes attempted to cover his
naked wife with a sheet. Instead of allowing the man to cover his naked
quadriplegic wife, however, police threw him to the ground, tasered him,
and punched him repeatedly.’

Read more: Police Taser and Beat Innocent Disabled Vet, Hold Quadriplegic
Wife at Gunpoint and Demand She Stand

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/police-taser-and-beat-innocent-disabled-vet-hold-quadriplegic-wife-gunpoint-demand

[Cidersomerset]

There have been several dystopian movies recently and since 9/11 the police state
has been creeping in. ' The Totalitarian Tip Toe'.....

======================================================

‘Minority Report’ Is 40 Years Ahead of Schedule: The Fictional World Has Become Reality

By David Icke on 30th September 2015 Big Brother, The Police State

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/get-attachment-691.jpg


get-attachment (69)‘We are a scant 40 years away from the futuristic world that science fiction
author Philip K. Dick envisioned for Minority Report in which the government is all-seeing,
all-knowing and all-powerful, and if you dare to step out of line, dark-clad police SWAT teams
will crack a few skulls to bring the populace under control. Increasingly, the world around us
resembles Dick’s dystopian police state in which the police combine widespread surveillance,
behavior prediction technologies, data mining and precognitive technology to capture would-be
criminals before they can do any damage. In other words, the government’s goal is to prevent
crimes before they happen: precrime.’

Read more: ‘Minority Report’ Is 40 Years Ahead of Schedule: The Fictional World Has Become Reality

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-28/minority-report-40-years-ahead-schedule-fictional-world-has-become-reality

=========================================================
=========================================================
=========================================================


DHS and FEMA now using U.S. hospitals to monitor and arrest patients wanted by government

By David Icke on 30th September 2015 Big Brother,

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Untitled-163.jpg

‘Has the Department of Homeland Security’s “See Something, Say Something” initiative,
which started following the 9/11 attacks, created a nation of spies? Yes, say a growing
number of Americans and others who have been caught up in it.

A recent case in point involves an illegal immigrant in Texas. As reported by the Houston
Press, Blanca Borrego and her two daughters were sitting in the waiting area of the
Northeast Healthcare clinic in Atascocita for some two hours. The woman had not been
in to see her gynecologist in a year, when the doctor discovered a cyst in her abdomen
that had been causing her pain.

When she arrived at the clinic, the staff had asked her for an ID because they needed to
update her file as she filled out some paperwork. She had overstayed her original visa
some 12 years ago, so Borrego handed the staff a fake driver’s license. Then she settled
in to wait to be called.’

Read more: DHS and FEMA now using U.S. hospitals to monitor and arrest patients wanted by government

http://www.naturalnews.com/051378_hospital_surveillance_DHS_doctor-patient_confidentiality.html

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Other western democracies have riots and demonstrations as well...........

Britain Moves From Democracy to Authoritarian State in Pernicious Veil of Secrecy

By David Icke on 17th September 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Untitled-214.jpg

‘One should not forget that “Openness and participation are antidotes to
surveillance and control”.

When David Cameron won the 2015 election one of the first things he said
was; “For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our
citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone”. This ominous
statement immediately threw a dark shroud over Britain’s civil liberties laws, its
openness and participation.

Few of the mainstream establishment press thought this was worthy of mention.
From ZeroHedge – It’s not just those domestic extremists and crazy “conspiracy
theory” kooks who took serious issue with UK Prime Minister David Cameron’s
overtly fascist language when it comes to freedom of expression in Great Britain”.
The Independent was more sanguine – “This is the creepiest thing David Cameron
has ever said”.’

Read more: Britain Moves From Democracy to Authoritarian State in Pernicious Veil of Secrecy

http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/britain-moves-from-democracy-to-authoritarian-state-in-pernicious-veil-of-secrecy/

====================================================
====================================================

The fire arms use by UK police is very low....



The use of deadly force by police on British streets is extremely rare –
there were only two operations where firearms were discharged between 2013-14.

By David Icke on 16th September 2015 The Police State

MIRROR ONLINE.....


Pictured: ‘Quiet’ dad shot by police following eviction siege had fallen into rent arrears

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Nathaniel-Brophy-main.jpg

‘Last month, a 34-year-old mixed race man was shot three times by Metropolitan
Police firearms officers outside his front door.It was a shockingly violent end to an
incident which had initially shown no sign of taking such a dramatic turn.

The use of deadly force by police on British streets is extremely rare – there were
only two operations where firearms were discharged between 2013-14.But the
shooting, on a housing estate on the edge of Brixton and Clapham in South London,
attracted little in the way of media attention at the time.’

Read more: Pictured: ‘Quiet’ dad shot by police following eviction siege had fallen
into rent arrears

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pictured-quiet-dad-shot-police-6447161

===================================================
===================================================
===================================================

Which possibly ties in with an article from # 110

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNuuKcvWcAINktx.jpg


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the Neo - Con right wing NWO agenda has run its course. Change the clothing
and promote a Socialist Left wing NWO. Either way the 'Totalitarian tip toe' continues..

----------------------------------------------------------------------


At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism

By David Icke on 2nd October 2015

----------------------------------------------------------------------

NEW AMERICAN.....


Monday, 28 September 2015
At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism
Written by Alex Newman

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/b17eca5e74a5bfc1213f152e4d983e7d_XL.jpg

‘A far-reaching United Nations plot to re-engineer civilization and impose
global socialism on humanity, variously dubbed “Agenda 2030” and the
“Sustainable Development Agenda,” was ushered in on Friday with a
“thunderous standing ovation,” the UN Department of Public Information
reported. Every one of the 193 UN member governments on the planet
— from communist and Islamist dictatorships to those ruling what remains
of the “Free World” — vowed to help impose the UN’s controversial goals
on their subjects. Indeed, according to the UN and the global agreement
itself, not a single human being will be allowed to escape what one prominent
internationalist ominously referred to as the next “Great Leap Forward.”’

Read more: At UN Summit, World Rulers Adopt Agenda for Global Socialism

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-28/minority-report-40-years-ahead-schedule-fictional-world-has-become-reality

[bruno dante]

I'm with Mike on this one 100% (Only my Maher video is much better:wink:)

As we all know, one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. Which makes the majority doubly insane because they keep doing the same thing over and over, even when they know what the result is going to be: mass killings by guns.
We all act as if these shootings are just an unfortunate byproduct of our 2nd amendment rights, shrug our shoulders, and walk off. It truly is insane.

I think this video says it all:
tTpCUAK4ypA

Wow, Bill Maher. A guy more partisan than Bill O'Reilly. The guy is an opportunist and not very bright. Oregon has the universal background checks that the left insists would stop these massacres and 92% or the mass shootings have been happening in gun free school zones. I bet if Chris Mintz had his firearm with him, this massacre would have been much smaller but nobody outside of Oregon would have heard about it because it wouldn't fit the narrative. Please nothing else from Bill Maher if you want to be taken seriously.


Remember when Bill Maher was anti-war. Let me know if he talks about the bombings in Afganistan during his shtty show this week.
https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/03/us-airstrikes-hit-afghan-hospitalbombard



Mod Edit: I edited the above post, to remove the more hostile comments. ~ Rachel

Hank edit: mod edit has completely destroyed the spirit of the post, which was a damn good one before it was butchered, so nevermind.

[Grizz Griswold]

Wasn't there a president who was Saul Alinski's student?....can't recall the name right off.
Don't recall near as many shootings before he came into office either....what tha heck is that name?

Some of Alinksk's rules seem to go along with the goings on.
How about number 11

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

Here is the complete list from Alinsky.

* RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
* RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
* RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
* RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
* RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
* RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
* RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

how about those agitators?...guess they think they are doing the best for everyone,
even if they have no idea what that is. Ego's have a funny way of justifying everything.

[Jhonie]

Oregon Sheriff Shared Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory on Facebook

“Gun control is NOT the answer to preventing heinous crimes like school shootings,” he wrote, adding that efforts to restrict gun ownership “would be irresponsible and an indisputable insult to the American people.”

The sheriff also warned the vice president that “any federal regulation enacted by Congress or by executive order of the president offending the constitutional rights of my citizens shall not be enforced by me or by my deputies, nor will I permit the enforcement of any unconstitutional regulations or orders by federal officers within the borders of Douglas County Oregon.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/oregon-sheriff-shared-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory-on-facebook.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I wonder how long this brave sheriff will last.

[ThePythonicCow]

Show me any single government now on this planet that is not bought and paid for by the globalists
If there are any, they'd be easy to find. Just figure out where "our" (the U.S.) drone strikes are targeted.

[Calz]

Show me any single government now on this planet that is not bought and paid for by the globalists
If there are any, they'd be easy to find. Just figure out where "our" (the U.S.) drone strikes are targeted.

Caveat ... may seem silly ... but at some point with what is becoming obvious ... at what point does AI call the shots???

Hmmm????

[observer]

^^^^It already has Calz, Jade Helm is alive and functioning, test-run almost complete.

Interview begins around the 16 minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqGEz9IqOrE

*add: The program analyst, known only as D.J., breaks-down what the JADE part of JADE Helm is all about. Pay particular attention to what DJ has to say around the 36 minute; 30 second mark.


Perhaps a little off-topic, but is it really?

[Calz]

Posted a number of things along that line (thanks observer) but if we are to believe in what Shane has shared with us then the ... offworld ... AI has long been in place and has ... absorbed other AI systems.

Me? ... just a guy trying to figure it out ...

... but that seems to make sense to me.

[Calz]

If AI was already in complete control then what would be up with the illooney naughty infighting for control???

Control of what?

We are getting closer thanks to many but really ... seriously ... who really knows what the heck is going on???

[observer]

^^^^Consider this:

If AI were hyperdimensional, and always with us, all that "infighting for control" is part of the distraction.

The prototype named JADE II is simply a clone of the off-planet technology, and now in the hands of the military/industrial/bankster complex - otherwise known as the "Secret Space Program".

[Calz]

^^^^Consider this:

If AI were hyperdimensional, and always with us, all that "infighting for control" is part of the distraction.

The prototype named JADE II is simply a clone of the off-planet technology, and now in the hands of the military/industrial/bankster complex - otherwise known as the "Secret Space Program".

Geesh ... no wonder why I stick with music threads ...

Okay ... riddle me this ... the military/industrial/bankster complex is still human (or perhaps clones ... who really knows anymore).

I posted a similar type question in another forum directed at Shane but will offer it up for consideration here ...


What if ... ***the wave*** has a totally positive effect on all organic life. Draco is gone ... so I am suggesting the "parents" all the way down to the rank and file minions.


AI remains unaffected (right?) ...


Does not even the best case scenario set us up for a man vs machine type terminator mad max outcome???


(sorry ... we seem to be going wildly off topic ... but I think it is important to consider)

[observer]

When the JADE II program is fully functioning, and in command of the military, what possible effect will any "WAVE" scenario have on surface conditions, here within this particular reality?

As I told you in another thread, "the fat lady hasn't sung, as yet".

:focus:

[Calz]

Okay but why do you think Jade Helm is all that?

AI has been here a long time.

Allegedly whatever Jade Helm is will (or has) become a subset of that which has existed for a long time.



What Shane suggested is that whatever effect the wave may have will not have a direct effect on AI rather on our ability to recognize it for what it is.


I don't know ... how could I?

[Bluegreen]

Wasn't there a president who was Saul Alinski's student?....can't recall the name right off.
Don't recall near as many shootings before he came into office either....what tha heck is that name?

Some of Alinksk's rules seem to go along with the goings on.

Hillary Clinton wrote her college thesis (described by Wikipedia as "generally sympathetic") on Saul Alinsky
Clinton's research included interview(s) with Alinsky himself, who she stayed in touch with

[Selkie]

...how about those agitators?...guess they think they are doing the best for everyone,
even if they have no idea what that is. Ego's have a funny way of justifying everything.

Yes, they are walking, talking egos. At the very least, they are narcissists and many of them are full-blow psychopaths.

Oscar Wilde on selfishness versus unselfishness,




http://d.gr-assets.com/authors/1357460488p2/3565.jpg

“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. And unselfishness is letting other people's lives alone, not interfering with them. Selfishness always aims at creating around it an absolute uniformity of type. Unselfishness recognizes infinite variety of type as a delightful thing, accepts it, acquiesces in it, enjoys it. It is not selfish to think for oneself. A man who does not think for himself does not think at all. It is grossly selfish to require of one's neighbor that he should think in the same way, and hold the same opinions. Why should he? If he can think, he will probably think differently. If he cannot think, it is monstrous to require thought of any kind from him. A red rose is not selfish because it wants to be a red rose. It would be horribly selfish if it wanted all the other flowers in the garden to be both red and roses.” -- Oscar Wilde
(my emphasis)

Which applies beautifully to malignant narcissism and psychopathy,


...Today we know that although there are indeed some “neurotic” narcissists, there are also many more vain and self-centered folks who really believe in their superiority through and through. Such individuals are far more character-disordered than they are neurotic and their inflated views of themselves are not an anxious compensation but rather a sincere belief.

[...snip...]

Narcissism becomes particularly “malignant” (i.e. malevolent, dangerous, harmful, incurable) when it goes beyond mere vanity and excessive self-focus. Malignant narcissists not only see themselves as superior to others but believe in their superiority to the degree that they view others as relatively worthless, expendable, and justifiably exploitable. This type of narcissism is a defining characteristic of psychopathy/sociopathy and is rooted in an individual’s deficient capacity for empathy. It’s almost impossible for a person with such shallow feelings and such haughtiness to really care about others or to form a conscience with any of the qualities we typically associate with a humane attitude...

http://www.manipulative-people.com/malignant-narcissism/

(my emphasis)

[Dennis Leahy]

[my opinion]The USA is a breeding ground for warriors. The guns really aren't the cause of the problem; the problem is psychological.

By the time a young 'American' boy is 5, he will have killed countless bad guys by shooting them with a stick or a pointed finger. That same young boy will have heard the national anthem (played before most every organized sporting event and school function) countless times, and will have been swept into the glorification of solving problems with violence, "...the bombs bursting in air..." By a few years later, that young boy would have started watching "westerns" (programmed racism, which anti-war activist Josh Pritchett says was in full swing in the US Army before soldiers were sent out into the streets of Iraq) and Hollywood-CIA pro-war, American exceptionalism-based, propaganda disguised as patriotic war films to psychologically acquiesce to death and mayhem as the only option in conflict resolution and to glorify and hero-worship warriors. We were psycho-socially engineered to believe that pulling your gun faster and exhibiting lethal marksmanship is not only acceptable, it is heroic.

Twenty years later, when that 5 year old boy is 25, you don't disarm him by taking away his guns. By then, he's fully indoctrinated with violence as an acceptable solution to any problem, and the boy himself is a deadly weapon, whether there is a rock, stick, knife, or gun in his hand or if he is bare-fisted. He could pass a battery of psychological tests, as the tests were written by people who underwent the same indoctrination and hold the same subconscious bias. He is, by 'American' standards, normal.

The murder mentality (whether one person gets murdered or a group of people get murdered) is the result of psycho-social engineering into warrior indoctrination, not access to specific weaponry. If the US citizens were disarmed of their guns, the US would immediately become the knife-murder capital of the world (if we aren't already - we probably are.) Take away our knives, and we'd become the strangulation-murder capital of the world. If someone actually wants less murders in the USA, then they better have a long-term plan of cultural awareness that is based on making violence (especially as a first option) unacceptable in conflict resolution, and ending the militarist/warrior/fastest gunslinger hero-worship.

A secondary question: do the Globalist Rulers minions in the US government really want to disarm US citizens of their guns? I used to think so, now I wonder why they would want to. No international bankers, malevolent corporate CEOs, Zionist heads-of-State, or top-tier military brass are ever among the dead in shooting sprees. They are insulated from our violence. We kill one another, not them. We are no threat to them. Another point is that the vast majority of US citizens will do whatever they are told. We've been socially engineered to acquiesce. We - as a society - will be no easier (and no harder) to herd with or without guns. The Rulers also figured out that putting us in a large open-air prison where we guard our own cell doors (again, by psychological programming) is MUCH easier than putting us into overt prison encampments. What exactly is it that the Rulers are unable to get - right now - that they would be able to get if we had no guns? In my opinion, nothing.[/my opinion]

[Selkie]

What about people who simply prey upon others, violently, like rapists and armed robbers? Violence as predation, not conflict resolution?

[greybeard]

Agree totally Dennis.
Any mind set can appear to be normal, in deed true, by conditioning-- space repetition.
Any action can be justified and can appear to be the only rational way/response.
Worse still people think they are immune to conditioning.

To give an example from childhood.
Aged fourteen.
I was told by a friend that the reason a girl in our class was absent was that she was pregnant---I gave doubt. no way.
A while later another friend said similar--again I said don't think so. .
Next day two guys said similar, again I expressed doubt but in a I don't think so but just possible, sort of way.
Hearing this several more times led me to saying to yet another friend--"Have you heard S~~~~is pregnant?"
I had no evidence what so ever---and my uttering could have hurt the innocent, not pregnant girl.

I will say though guns are just too handy and being taught to use them is part of the conditioning.
Its a lot easier I would think to pull the trigger than to strangle a person.

However conditioning is conditioning.

We are evolving, its not that long ago that Scots were committing barbaric atrocities on other clans, now its a relatively safe place to live.

Chris

[gripreaper]

Very succinct Dennis. We are a culture of violence. Kennedy tried to warn us and Eisenhower tried to warn us, not to covertly operate in secret and to build the military industrial complex. Our IRA's and 401K's are filled with the loot of building the military industrial complex. If any country doesn't bow down to the globalists, they just go in there and bomb the sh1t out of them until they become subservient.

Our children are marginalized and the family unit is broken down, and our children are inundated with violence from every angle. By the time they are 5 years old they have watched 8,000 murders and by the time they are 18 it's 200,000.

https://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

The video games sold to our children are all violent, like the Witches and Warcraft series among others. Our religions teach us that we are born evil and that we need to be controlled and subjugated. Our schools teach us to revere patriotism and heroism, and that we are to follow rules and regulations and not think for ourselves, but regurgitate commands.

If we do not follow the prescribed social order, we are taught that there will be swift punishment, and resistance can now result in death. Our police forces have become militarized, and use violence as a first response.

If you look at the number of people that have died in the last century from violent conflicts of war and disease, its in the hundreds of millions.

Narcissists and psychopaths are made in the first few years of an infants life. I do believe we could turn this around if we were to revere motherhood and give the infants the nurturing they need early in life, but our culture doesn't want that. Mothers are forced into the workforce and out of the home because of our debt based fiat monetary system, while the electronic babysitter (the TV) is raising our kids.

Violence is a systemic problem that goes all the way into our cellular DNA and the deepest levels of our consciousness. We need a complete paradigm shift in consciousness and a complete revamp of our social order and the institutions which we support and acquiesce to.

WE support our culture and we are not willing to give up the loot we gained from building the military industrial complex. We continue to acquiesce to the globalist agenda, and we are lethargic and complacent and comfortable with the system of slavery and violence we live in.

So, while the debate rages as to whether we need this globalist slave structure to tighten the noose around our behavior and legislate more laws about guns, our consciousness remains intact in the memes of violence and support of the violent culture.

[greybeard]

What about people who simply prey upon others, violently, like rapists and armed robbers? Violence as predation, not conflict resolution?

Suspect its extreme ego--Im the one, I can do this--I have control over others --I am special and virtually unique--not many have the guts to do this.
Sick egoistic thinking.
However conditioning again is involved---Horror/violent/rape films---this and the bizarre can seem very attractive to some.


Chris

[Selkie]

What about people who simply prey upon others, violently, like rapists and armed robbers? Violence as predation, not conflict resolution?

Suspect its extreme ego--Im the one, I can do this--I have control over others --I am special and virtually unique--not many have the guts to do this.
Sick egoistic thinking.
However conditioning again is involved---Horror/violent/rape films---this and the bizarre can seem very attractive to some.


Chris

Yes, I know. But what Dennis is suggesting,


Quote Dennis Leahy, "If someone actually wants less murders in the USA, then they better have a long-term plan of cultural awareness that is based on making violence (especially as a first option) unacceptable in conflict resolution, and ending the militarist/warrior/fastest gunslinger hero-worship."


(my emphasis)

simply is not going to work against people like that. Most violent criminals are psychopaths. Psychopaths are born, not made, with an inborn absence of empathy and conscience, and they feel no remorse. Therapy does not change them, and the recidivism rate is very, very high. All therapy does is teach them how to become better manipulators, and therefor makes them even more dangerous. The research shows all of this clearly.

[genevieve]

Very interesting five-minute vid regarding gun violence in America and elsewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pELwCqz2JfE


I especially recommend it for anyone believing typical Americans are gun-happy killers.


Blessings to us all.

Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
genevieve

[Dennis Leahy]

... Psychopaths are born, not made, with an inborn absence of empathy and conscience, and they feel no remorse. Therapy does not change them, and the recidivism rate is very, very high. All therapy does is teach them how to become better manipulators, and therefor makes them even more dangerous. The research shows all of this clearly.I don't think research clearly shows that any infant is a sociopath or psychopath. I don't think there is any way to measure it. I think that in the absence of a "defining moment" for the beginnings of sociopathy/psychopathy, some psychologists have decreed that it starts at birth - and no one has specifics to prove their theory wrong, so that concept has been accepted. If it is not nurture, then why do some cultures (apparently) have a much higher percentage of sociopaths?

Some (probably most!) sociopaths are harmless. We hear about the ones that rise in power in corporations, government, military (and religions too), but most sociopaths are just selfish a-holes, not mass murderers, CEOs of Monsanto, or US presidents. What (in the brain) escalates a sociopath to a dangerous psychopath? We're not talking about passion, as in "he murdered every gang member that gang-raped his daughter", but rather a dispassionate randomness targeting anyone within range as deserving a bullet. The narcissism of sociopathy/psychopathy is probably why mass murderers escalate from being a sociopath to being a psychopath with the potential to commit mass murder and revel in the presumed glory and fame and hero status of the violent "heroes" in the sociopath's (and society's) mind. What way will the psychopath act-out? Whatever way the social conditioning/engineering/examples provide. I believe that mass shooting - resulting in the (presumed) fame and glorification of the shooter - is a learned (or programmed) behavior - thus "nurture", not nature is the factor that feeds the escalation from sociopath to mass murdering psychopath.

[gripreaper]

. Psychopaths are born, not made, with an inborn absence of empathy and conscience, and they feel no remorse.

If we are to postulate this as true, that psychopathy is genetic and not environmental, then we need to look at what is missing in the DNA, the cellular structure and the nervous system of these individuals. The ability to feel on a cellular level, in the very viscera of a newborn is predicated upon the ability to receive stimuli from the mother during gestation, birth and the first few years of life. If this stimulus is nurturing, then the cells will receive these imprints. If the stimulus is terrifying, or the mother is taking drugs, then the cells will react with a defensive posture against this stimuli as a survival mechanism.

The emotional body, the boundary of the skin also reacts similarly to stimuli of nurture or abandonment. If a stimuli is too painful to absorb, the specie shuts down and defers the feelings of abject terror, and sequesters them in the nervous system where they foster agitation and a disconnect from the cognitive abilities developed later on. These are learned responses. We then externalize them, create beliefs around them and act them out.

When one can no longer "feel" what it feels like to hurt or to feel loved, and one becomes numb to these sensations, both positive and negative, then this person is said to be psychopathic.

If we go with the postulate that psychopathy exists before gestation and birth, then I would propose we would need to look at the esoteric and consider that these entities are not human and have some gene completely severed. The common term for these entities is "Archon" and are not indigenous to the earth.

Couple that now with the technology to manipulate consciousness through microwave entrainment, and give this technology to the psychopaths, and you have studies which cannot be controlled and made uniform. We have a real conundrum on our hands.

My guess, is we have a mixture of both environmentally developed humans who have lost their humanity through lack of nurture, as well as the more hardened psychopaths who are not human and never were, who run this planet and have laid claim to a divine right to rule for centuries, possibly longer.

Most humans are empathic, can feel what others are feeling, and have no impulses to hurt anyone, and are loving and compassionate beings, regardless of the environmental conditioning of their culture. Destroy the family unit and you can take over a population in short order. The psychopaths understand this better than most.

[East Sun]

JFK warned us about secret societies (one of the reasons why he was slated for elimination). He was the last of the white hats/above board good guys, not perfect but better than what followed imo. Secret societies have no place in an open society, but this is no longer an open society. He, Kennedy would turn in his grave if he saw our society today. (Bought and sold comes to mind). Nothing to be proud of anymore...all part of the plan.

Re: Gun control----The best thing for us all to learn is that we ourselves are being controlled arguing among ourselves while the 'shadow people' as I call them are using genocide, brainwashing vulnerable individuals (notice its always young people) to stupefy and divide us..

In the same vein as, Follow the Money, think 'Follow the controllers/brain-washers.' While we are being diverted every-which-way they are laughing at our foolishness. We know who they are (at least here on PA) but they're not worried about a small minority. Voting does not work anymore. Things are turning with the help of books like "Methodical Deception" by Rebekah Roth. Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's good to discuss, it makes others aware.
Re: Shane---He is obviously very smart, maybe? too smart for us, so I'm wary. I could be wrong, so I'll leave it at that.

I would like to rec. a book by Dr Joel Wallach entitled Epigenetics.
He shows how food deficiencies can be detrimental to us before conception, onward through our lives. Inadvertently, they can cause devastation in all kinds of ways in physical, mental psychological and even spiritual.

[Selkie]

... Psychopaths are born, not made, with an inborn absence of empathy and conscience, and they feel no remorse. Therapy does not change them, and the recidivism rate is very, very high. All therapy does is teach them how to become better manipulators, and therefor makes them even more dangerous. The research shows all of this clearly.I don't think research clearly shows that any infant is a sociopath or psychopath. I don't think there is any way to measure it. I think that in the absence of a "defining moment" for the beginnings of sociopathy/psychopathy, some psychologists have decreed that it starts at birth - and no one has specifics to prove their theory wrong, so that concept has been accepted. If it is not nurture, then why do some cultures (apparently) have a much higher percentage of sociopaths?

Some (probably most!) sociopaths are harmless. We hear about the ones that rise in power in corporations, government, military (and religions too), but most sociopaths are just selfish a-holes, not mass murderers, CEOs of Monsanto, or US presidents. What (in the brain) escalates a sociopath to a dangerous psychopath? We're not talking about passion, as in "he murdered every gang member that gang-raped his daughter", but rather a dispassionate randomness targeting anyone within range as deserving a bullet. The narcissism of sociopathy/psychopathy is probably why mass murderers escalate from being a sociopath to being a psychopath with the potential to commit mass murder and revel in the presumed glory and fame and hero status of the violent "heroes" in the sociopath's (and society's) mind. What way will the psychopath act-out? Whatever way the social conditioning/engineering/examples provide. I believe that mass shooting - resulting in the (presumed) fame and glorification of the shooter - is a learned (or programmed) behavior - thus "nurture", not nature is the factor that feeds the escalation from sociopath to mass murdering psychopath.

About that in-born thing, this is a very interesting article,

http://www.sott.net/article/302946-Baby-psychopaths-Preferring-a-red-ball-over-a-human-face-may-predict-callous-unemotional-traits

as are these,


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/life-as-a-nonviolent-psychopath/282271/

[...snip...]

While I was writing this book, my mother started to tell me more things about myself. She said she had never told me or my father how weird I was at certain points in my youth, even though I was a happy-go-lucky kind of kid. And as I was growing up, people all throughout my life said I could be some kind of gang leader or Mafioso don because of certain behavior. Some parents forbade their children from hanging out with me. They'd wonder how I turned out so well—a family guy, successful, professional, never been to jail and all that.

I asked everybody that I knew, including psychiatrists and geneticists that have known me for a long time, and knew my bad behavior, what they thought. They went through very specific things that I had done over the years and said, "That’s psychopathic." I asked them why they didn’t tell me and they said, "We did tell you. We've all been telling you." I argued that they had called me "crazy," and they all said, "No. We said you're psychopathic."

[...snip...]


I started with simple things of how I interact with my wife, my sister, and my mother. Even though they’ve always been close to me, I don't treat them all that well. I treat strangers pretty well—really well, and people tend to like me when they meet me—but I treat my family the same way, like they're just somebody at a bar. I treat them well, but I don't treat them in a special way. That’s the big problem.

I asked them this—it's not something a person will tell you spontaneously—but they said, "I give you everything. I give you all this love and you really don’t give it back.


They all said it, and that sure bothered me. So I wanted to see if I could change. I don't believe it, but I'm going to try.

In order to do that, every time I started to do something, I had to think about it, look at it, and go: No. Don’t do the selfish thing or the self-serving thing. Step-by-step, that's what I’ve been doing for about a year and a half and they all like it. Their basic response is: We know you don’t really mean it, but we still like it.

I told them, "You’ve got to be kidding me. You accept this? It’s phony!"

But treating everyone the same isn't necessarily a bad thing, is it? Is it just that the people close to you want more from you?

[...snip...]

Yes. They absolutely expect and demand more. It's a kind of cruelty, a kind of abuse, because you're not giving them that love. My wife to this day says it's hard to be with me at parties because I've got all these people around me, and I'll leave her or other people in the cold.

[...snip...]

But a real, primary psychopath doesn't need that. They're just predators who don’t need to be angry at all; they do these things because of some fundamental lack of connection with the human race, and with individuals, and so on.

(my emphasis)


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127888976


This is the orbital cortex, the area that Fallon and other scientists believe is involved with ethical behavior, moral decision-making and impulse control.

"People with low activity [in the orbital cortex] are either free-wheeling types or sociopaths," he says.

[...snip...]


or was born that way.

"What's left? What takes over?" he asks. "The area of the brain that drives your id-type behaviors, which is rage, violence, eating, sex, drinking."


]http://www.businessinsider.com/psychopath-who-studies-psychopaths-2015-7

[...snip...]

But when he went home and told his wife what had happened — how his brain resembled that of a psychopath, at least according to his theory — she reacted very strangely.

It wasn't that surprising, she said.

But it wasn't just his wife who reacted this way. Friends and colleagues told him the same thing, that he was "kind of not there emotionally," Fallon recalls. Even his daughter thought so — as a young child, she painted her dad as a "dark figure." Fallon's psychiatrist friends described things he had done in the past that they said showed a profound lack of empathy (one of the telltale signs of psychopathic tendencies), like skipping a friend's funeral because he thought it might be boring. His friends and family agreed. "I realized people had been telling me something for years, I just didn't put it together," Fallon said.

And here, below, are (just) two sites you may want to peruse extensively before saying that "Some (probably most!) sociopaths are harmless."

These sites, below, are mostly about non-criminal (colloquially called "successful" psychopaths). Read about the pain and anguish that psycho/sociopaths cause to the people in their lives, how cruelly and callously they abuse and exploit people, before you say that most of them are harmless, please.

http://www.lovefraud.com/

http://psychopathsandlove.com/blog-psychopaths-and-emotional-manipulation-in-relationships/

¤=[Post Update]=¤



. Psychopaths are born, not made, with an inborn absence of empathy and conscience, and they feel no remorse.

If we are to postulate this as true, that psychopathy is genetic and not environmental, then we need to look at what is missing in the DNA, the cellular structure and the nervous system of these individuals. The ability to feel on a cellular level, in the very viscera of a newborn is predicated upon the ability to receive stimuli from the mother during gestation, birth and the first few years of life. If this stimulus is nurturing, then the cells will receive these imprints. If the stimulus is terrifying, or the mother is taking drugs, then the cells will react with a defensive posture against this stimuli as a survival mechanism.

The emotional body, the boundary of the skin also reacts similarly to stimuli of nurture or abandonment. If a stimuli is too painful to absorb, the specie shuts down and defers the feelings of abject terror, and sequesters them in the nervous system where they foster agitation and a disconnect from the cognitive abilities developed later on. These are learned responses. We then externalize them, create beliefs around them and act them out.

When one can no longer "feel" what it feels like to hurt or to feel loved, and one becomes numb to these sensations, both positive and negative, then this person is said to be psychopathic.

If we go with the postulate that psychopathy exists before gestation and birth, then I would propose we would need to look at the esoteric and consider that these entities are not human and have some gene completely severed. The common term for these entities is "Archon" and are not indigenous to the earth.

Couple that now with the technology to manipulate consciousness through microwave entrainment, and give this technology to the psychopaths, and you have studies which cannot be controlled and made uniform. We have a real conundrum on our hands.

My guess, is we have a mixture of both environmentally developed humans who have lost their humanity through lack of nurture, as well as the more hardened psychopaths who are not human and never were, who run this planet and have laid claim to a divine right to rule for centuries, possibly longer.

Most humans are empathic, can feel what others are feeling, and have no impulses to hurt anyone, and are loving and compassionate beings, regardless of the environmental conditioning of their culture. Destroy the family unit and you can take over a population in short order. The psychopaths understand this better than most.

See my reply to post #175,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006362&viewfull=1#post1006362

[Selkie]

Very interesting five-minute vid regarding gun violence in America and elsewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pELwCqz2JfE


I especially recommend it for anyone believing typical Americans are gun-happy killers.


Blessings to us all.

Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
genevieve

Thank you, genevieve!

.... :blackwidow:....

[Meggings]

... Psychopaths are born, not made, with an inborn absence of empathy and conscience, and they feel no remorse. Therapy does not change them, and the recidivism rate is very, very high. All therapy does is teach them how to become better manipulators, and therefor makes them even more dangerous. The research shows all of this clearly.I don't think research clearly shows that any infant is a sociopath or psychopath. I don't think there is any way to measure it. I think that in the absence of a "defining moment" for the beginnings of sociopathy/psychopathy, some psychologists have decreed that it starts at birth - and no one has specifics to prove their theory wrong, so that concept has been accepted. If it is not nurture, then why do some cultures (apparently) have a much higher percentage of sociopaths?

Some (probably most!) sociopaths are harmless. We hear about the ones that rise in power in corporations, government, military (and religions too), but most sociopaths are just selfish a-holes, not mass murderers, CEOs of Monsanto, or US presidents. What (in the brain) escalates a sociopath to a dangerous psychopath? We're not talking about passion, as in "he murdered every gang member that gang-raped his daughter", but rather a dispassionate randomness targeting anyone within range as deserving a bullet. The narcissism of sociopathy/psychopathy is probably why mass murderers escalate from being a sociopath to being a psychopath with the potential to commit mass murder and revel in the presumed glory and fame and hero status of the violent "heroes" in the sociopath's (and society's) mind. What way will the psychopath act-out? Whatever way the social conditioning/engineering/examples provide. I believe that mass shooting - resulting in the (presumed) fame and glorification of the shooter - is a learned (or programmed) behavior - thus "nurture", not nature is the factor that feeds the escalation from sociopath to mass murdering psychopath.

Hi Dennis, according to research, psychopaths are born with that predisposition. I've heard Dr. James Fallon who studies psychopaths be interviewed twice on this topic. Here is a transcribed interview from NPR that you can scan through on this topic: http://www.npr.org/2015/07/10/421625310/the-scientist-and-the-psychopath

PET brain scans of serial killers and psychopaths show "...big, dark spots in the brain - places where there was little or no activity. These were the areas where things like moral reasoning and impulse control come from - the place where we manage our most base instincts. There are also dark spots where empathy originates. That sad feeling you have when you see someone you love cry - psychopaths don't get that feeling."

EDIT Sorry, Selkie references Dr. James Fallon in her post 178 above.

[Grizz Griswold]

What about people who simply prey upon others, violently, like rapists and armed robbers? Violence as predation, not conflict resolution?

Suspect its extreme ego--Im the one, I can do this--I have control over others --I am special and virtually unique--not many have the guts to do this.
Sick egoistic thinking.
However conditioning again is involved---Horror/violent/rape films---this and the bizarre can seem very attractive to some.


Chris

Hi Chris,
What's a nice guy like You doing in a place like this?
Yep Yep i know i'm here too... LOL

With all the years of studying A Course in Miracles, i often wondered, why all the time spent on the ego.
Later realized by understanding what the Ego is, one is much more able to recognize it, and not be affected by it.
By learning it's tricks one can recognize an illusion when they see one.

Shootings, wars, discontent are all products of the ego/illusion
Some have studied the ego and appear to use it....ultimately this is still all illusion, but as long as We seem to
be in a body, it seemingly has effect.

It looks like some people still look to the ego for it's illusory gain, not only in america but all over the world.

Here is a video about it's present usage.
Some may not believe this to be the same thing, but ego traits never vary.
SyAgQJk4q5c

b

[Fiberglut]

I find myself wondering, if the operation was not a false flag (and it is certainly too soon to make that type of determination), was as a Manchurian candidate, a creation of one of the alphabet agencies, the perpetrator, and how would we ever know? I don't believe we would......

It's beginning to look to me as if everything seen on MSM really is a lie, or some type of neurolinguistic programming at best...

The mass consciousness of humanity creates reality...

[observer]

At this point in the thread it is important to document what Jim Marrs wrote regarding psychotropic drug related gun violence.


List of Psychotropic Drug Related Mass-Killings From Jim Marrs Book, “Rise of the Fourth Reich”
(transcribed from pages 308-311 by observer)


The Indianapolis Star compiled a list of [psychotropic drug related] violent episodes dating as far back as 1985 , when Steven W Brownlee, an Atlanta postal worker on psychotropic drugs, killed two coworkers. The list includes:


In 1986, fourteen-year-old Rod Mathews of Canton, Massachusetts, beat a classmate to death with a baseball bat while on Ritalin.
In 1988, thirty-one-year-old Laurie Dann, who had been taken Anafranil and lithium, walked into a second-grade classroom in Winne[t]ka, Illinois, and began shooting. One child was killed and six wounded.
Later that same year, nineteen-year-old James Wilson went on a shooting rampage at the Greenwood, South Carolina, elementary school and killed two eight-year-old girls and wounded seven others. He had been on Xanax, Valium, and five other drugs.
In 1989, Patrick Purdy, twenty-five, opened fire on a schoolyard filled with children in Stockton, California. Five kids were killed and thirty wounded. He had been treated with Thorazine and Amitriptyline.
In 1993, Steve Lieth of Chelsea, Michigan, walked into a school meeting and shot and killed the school superintendent, wounding two others, while on Prozac.
In 1996, ten-year-old Tommy Becton grabbed his three-year-old niece as a shield and aimed a shotgun at a sheriff’s deputy who had accompanied a truant officer to his Florida home. He had been on Prozac.
In 1997, Michael Carneal, fourteen, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in Health High in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three died and one was paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.
In 1998, Kip Kinkel, a fifteen-year-old in Springfield, Oregon, murdered his parents and proceeded to high school, where he went on a rampage, killing two students and wounding twenty-two others. Kinkel had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.
In 1998, eleven-year-old Andrew Golden and fourteen-year-old Mitchell Johnson apparently faked a fire alarm at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Arkansas, and shot at students as they left the building. Four students and a teacher were killed. The boys were said to be on Ritalin.
In 1999, Shawn Cooper, fifteen, of Norus, Idaho, took a shotgun to school and injured one student. He had been taking Ritalin.
On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris, eighteen, and Dylan Klebold, seventeen shot and killed twelve classmates and a teacher and wounded twenty-four others an Columbine High School in Colorado, Harris had been taking Luvox.
In 1999, Todd Cameron Smith walked into a high school in Taber, Alberta, Canada, with a rifle and killed one student and injured another. He had been given a drug after a five-minute phone consultation with a psychiatrist.
In 1999, Steven Abrams drove his car into a preschool playground in Costa Mesa, California, killing two. He was on probation with a requirement to take lithium.
In 2000, T. J. Solomon, fifteen, opened fire at Heritage High School in Conyers, Georgia, while on a mix of antidepressants. Six were wounded.
The same year, Seth Trickey of Gibson, Oklahoma, thirteen, was on a variety of prescription drugs when he opened fire on his middle-school class, injuring five.
In 2001, Elizabeth Bush, fourteen, was on Prozac. She shot and wounded another student at Bishop Neumann High in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.
Also in 2001, Jason Hoffman, eighteen, was on Effexor and Celexa, both antidepressants, when he wounded two teachers at California’s Granite Hills High School.
Same year, in Wahluke, Washington, Cory Baadsgaard, sixteen, took a rifle to his high school and held twenty-three classmates hostage. He had been taking Paxil and Effexor.
In Osaka, Japan, also in 2001, Mamoru Takuma, thirty-seven, whet into a second-grade classroom and started stabbing students. He killed eight. He had taken ten times his normal dose of an antidepressant.
In 2005, sixteen-year-old Native American Jeff Weise, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota, was under the influence of the antidepressant Prozac, when he shot and killed nine people and wounded five before committing suicide.
In 2006, Duane Morrison, fifty-three, shot and killed a girl at Platte Canyon High School in Colorado. Antidepressants later were found in his vehicle.

Other incidents cited, but not apparently related to schools, Include:

In 1987, William Cruse was charged with killing six people in Palm Bay, Florida, after taking psychiatric drugs for “several years”.
The same year, Bartley James Dobben killed his two young sons by throwing them into a 1,300-degree foundry ladle. He had been on “regimen” of psychiatric drugs.
In 1987, Joseph T. Wesbecker, forty-seven, just a month after he began taking Prozac, shot twenty workers at Standard Gravure Corporation in Louisville, Kentucky, killing nine. Eli Lilly, which makes Prozac, later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.
In 1991, sixty-one-year-old Barbara Mortenson was arrested by San Jose, California, police, who said she had “cannibalized” her eighty-seven-year-old mother while on Prozac.
In 1992, Lynwood Drake III shot and killed six in San Luis Obispo and Morro Bay California. Prozac and Valium wire found in his system.
In 1993, sixteen-year-old Victor Brancaccio attacked and killed an eighty-one-year-old woman and covered her corpse with red spray-paint. He was two months into a Zoloft regimen.
In 1995, while on four medications, including Prozac, Dr. Debora Green set her Prairie Village, Missouri, home on fire killing her children, ages six and thirteen.
In 1996, Kurt Danysh, eighteen, shot and killed his father seventeen days after his first dose of Prozac. He told authorities, “I didn’t realize I did it until after it was done…. This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing like I was left there just holding a gun.”


Since the book was written in 2008, how many more of these senseless massacres have involved Psychotropic Drug?

Guns don't kill people... psychotic people kill people!!!

[East Sun]

Were they mentally compromised to begin with or was it the drugs that pushed them over the edge. The latter is my guess. Big Pharma cranks out drugs that have never been tested adequately and 'convince' Medical Doctors to prescribe them for kids, teens and adults.

Big Pharma should be stopped----period..........

[observer]

^^^^As I understand it East, among the first wave of Federal Investigators who show-up to one of these events, Big Pharma sends a team of Private Investigators who - for some unknown reason - are given total access to the crime scene - go figure!

[Dennis Leahy]

I started to write: " Maybe we need to stop and come to some agreement over the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath." If I'm using the terms incorrectly, I need to be corrected. I think of the condition of sociopathy as a latent or mostly latent quality..."

and that's as far as I got before I decided I had better look up the definitions.

I looked in several places, and the definitions that I read range from considering the conditions as synonymous to considering the difference to be the person's ability to negotiate societally (by mimicking the missing emotions. ) Some comparisons say both conditions exhibit violent behavior; other definitions/comparisons do not. I have been using the term "sociopath" to mean a non-violent, non-aggressive person with no ability to emotionally bond and no ability to express empathy - it could be (for an example with a bad pun) a postal worker who will never "go postal."

The line between the mental disorders (in my thinking) is crossed when the person hurts other living creatures (torture or kill an animal or human.)

Some of the definitions sorta back up my understanding, but the pervasive meme (especially on the less technical websites I checked) was that the terms are synonymous or at most that sociopaths are more overt, more rash, less calculating and stealthy. In light of that, any specifics I'm trying to use as criteria to differentiate sociopaths and psychopaths in terms of directed violent action may be incorrect (or at best, muddled by clashing definitions.) Based on my definition hunting expedition, I'd have to retract my statement, "Some (probably most!) sociopaths are harmless." (again, my thinking was that the attribute was latent, unexpressed in terms of harmful anti-social behavior.) In fact, by some definitions, the "sociopath" is the more likely to have a violent rage outburst and perform harmful acts, the psychopath (by this definition) may be violent, but would be methodical and not really acting in rage.

Selkie, I did check out the links you provided, and found the "red ball" experiment interesting. What that doesn't tell us (and really, never can, because of infants being raised by different people in different settings with different nutrition, etc) is whether some of the parents inadvertently omitted some nurturing behaviors that other parents included, or the opposite - included some behaviors that somehow facilitated a sociopathic brain to develop. "Gripreaper" would remind us that at 5 weeks of age, an infant would have received 45 weeks of nurturing, good or bad.

Note also, from that same link:

What else did the test reveal?

The study also found that sensitive parenting can actually prevent the development of antisocial behaviors in children. When a mother responded more sensitively to her infant during a play session in the lab -- defined as her tendency to engage with the infant with "appropriate, supportive and warm" responses -- the child's chances of developing antisocial traits were significantly reduced. Jim Fallon appears to be non-sociopath and non-psychopath behaviorally, but exhibits physical traits he believes are strongly indicative of sociopathy:


Fallon set out to see whether anyone in his family possesses the brain of a serial killer. Because he has studied the brains of dozens of psychopaths, he knew precisely what to look for. To demonstrate, he opened his laptop and called up an image of a brain on his computer screen. "Here is a brain that's not normal," he says. There are patches of yellow and red. Then he points to another section of the brain, in the front part of the brain, just behind the eyes.
"Look at that — there's almost nothing here," Fallon says.
This is the orbital cortex, the area that Fallon and other scientists believe is involved with ethical behavior, moral decision-making and impulse control.
"People with low activity are either free-wheeling types or sociopaths," he says.
...
"And I took a look at my own PET scan and saw something disturbing that I did not talk about," he says.
What he didn't want to reveal was that [I]his orbital cortex looks inactive.
"If you look at the PET scan, I look just like one of those killers."
...
Jim Fallon says he had a terrific childhood; he was doted on by his parents and had loving relationships with his brothers and sisters and entire extended family. Significantly, he says this journey through his brain has changed the way he thinks about nature and nurture. He once believed that genes and brain function could determine everything about us. But now he thinks his childhood may have made all the difference.To me, Fallon's own story at least anecdotally points to nurture, not nature, as providing the necessary elements for destructive antisocial behavior.

{edit, to add} The interview with Fallon that Meggings posted gives a different flavor. Here Fallon seems to fit my previous definition for a "sociopath" but not a "psychopath."

[M-Albion-3D]

An interesting commentary on the Intellihub website....


https://www.intellihub.com/oregon-shooting-13-troubling-signs-of-potentially-yet-another-false-flag/


Also interesting thoughts from Jim Stone.....
http://82.221.129.208/ah6index.html


Remember that train shooting in Paris a month or two ago where two Americans stopped the attack before anything happened? Well, this new shooting in Oregon happened at the teeny tiny community college one of those Americans, Alek Skarlatos, attends. (http://www.tmz.com/2015/10/01/terror-train-hero-alek-skarlatos-oregon-school-shooting-alum-dancing-with-the-stars/#ixzz3nMc3Ey5t) Only he was not there, because he was doing a rehearsal for "dancing with the stars". Figure the odds. Nuff said, this one is in the bag. And I just don't want to waste my time with another hoax shooting LIKE THE BAT MAN SHOOTING, A PROVEN HOAX, THEY RELEASED THE PHOTOS OF THE THEATER AND IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THEM CHECK THIS OUT! (http://82.221.129.208/ae7index.html)
-Jim Stone

[Cidersomerset]

CNN Alters Photo of Umpqua Killer Chris Harper-Mercer to Make Him Look White

By David Icke on 5th October 2015 The Police State, Useless Media

==================================================

http://static.infowars.com/p/prison_planet_logo2.jpg


CNN Alters Photo of Umpqua Killer Chris Harper-Mercer to Make Him Look White

The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV
Infowars.com Twitter Alex Jones' Facebook Infowars store

Jim Hoft....Gateway Pundit
October 4, 2015

CNN photoshops the photo of Oregon killer Chris Harper-Mercer to make him look white.

Chris was the son of Ian Mercer from Great Britain and Laurel Margaret Harper.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/mercer-parents1.jpg


Conservative Treehouse
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/02/the-curious-case-of-oregon-shooter-chris-harper-mercer-a-social-media-profile-shaped-modified-and-deleted/

Chris lived with his mother Laurel.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/mercer-harper.jpg
He posted this selfie online.
mercer harper

But, according to Conservative Treehouse, CNN altered the image to make Harper-Mercer look white.



http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/mercer-cnn-575x339.jpg

‘On the left is the selfie Christopher Mercer uploaded to his social media. On the right is how
CNN presented the same selfie in broadcast stories about him. Why did CNN need to change
the complexion (color) of their broadcast? Why is no-one showing pictures of mom, Laurel Margaret Harper.

His online profiles have been erased since the shooting.’

Read more: CNN Alters Photo of Umpqua Killer Chris Harper-Mercer to Make Him Look White

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cnn-alters-photo-of-umpqua-killer-chris-harper-mercer-to-make-him-look-white.html

[Selkie]

I started to write: " Maybe we need to stop and come to some agreement over the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath." If I'm using the terms incorrectly, I need to be corrected. I think of the condition of sociopathy as a latent or mostly latent quality..."

and that's as far as I got before I decided I had better look up the definitions.

I looked in several places, and the definitions that I read range from considering the conditions as synonymous to considering the difference to be the person's ability to negotiate societally (by mimicking the missing emotions. ) Some comparisons say both conditions exhibit violent behavior; other definitions/comparisons do not. I have been using the term "sociopath" to mean a non-violent, non-aggressive person with no ability to emotionally bond and no ability to express empathy - it could be (for an example with a bad pun) a postal worker who will never "go postal."

The line between the mental disorders (in my thinking) is crossed when the person hurts other living creatures (torture or kill an animal or human.)

Some of the definitions sorta back up my understanding, but the pervasive meme (especially on the less technical websites I checked) was that the terms are synonymous or at most that sociopaths are more overt, more rash, less calculating and stealthy. In light of that, any specifics I'm trying to use as criteria to differentiate sociopaths and psychopaths in terms of directed violent action may be incorrect (or at best, muddled by clashing definitions.) Based on my definition hunting expedition, I'd have to retract my statement, "Some (probably most!) sociopaths are harmless." (again, my thinking was that the attribute was latent, unexpressed in terms of harmful anti-social behavior.) In fact, by some definitions, the "sociopath" is the more likely to have a violent rage outburst and perform harmful acts, the psychopath (by this definition) may be violent, but would be methodical and not really acting in rage.

Selkie, I did check out the links you provided, and found the "red ball" experiment interesting. What that doesn't tell us (and really, never can, because of infants being raised by different people in different settings with different nutrition, etc) is whether some of the parents inadvertently omitted some nurturing behaviors that other parents included, or the opposite - included some behaviors that somehow facilitated a sociopathic brain to develop. "Gripreaper" would remind us that at 5 weeks of age, an infant would have received 45 weeks of nurturing, good or bad.

Note also, from that same link:

What else did the test reveal?

The study also found that sensitive parenting can actually prevent the development of antisocial behaviors in children. When a mother responded more sensitively to her infant during a play session in the lab -- defined as her tendency to engage with the infant with "appropriate, supportive and warm" responses -- the child's chances of developing antisocial traits were significantly reduced. Jim Fallon appears to be non-sociopath and non-psychopath behaviorally, but exhibits physical traits he believes are strongly indicative of sociopathy:


Fallon set out to see whether anyone in his family possesses the brain of a serial killer. Because he has studied the brains of dozens of psychopaths, he knew precisely what to look for. To demonstrate, he opened his laptop and called up an image of a brain on his computer screen. "Here is a brain that's not normal," he says. There are patches of yellow and red. Then he points to another section of the brain, in the front part of the brain, just behind the eyes.
"Look at that — there's almost nothing here," Fallon says.
This is the orbital cortex, the area that Fallon and other scientists believe is involved with ethical behavior, moral decision-making and impulse control.
"People with low activity are either free-wheeling types or sociopaths," he says.
...
"And I took a look at my own PET scan and saw something disturbing that I did not talk about," he says.
What he didn't want to reveal was that [I]his orbital cortex looks inactive.
"If you look at the PET scan, I look just like one of those killers."
...
Jim Fallon says he had a terrific childhood; he was doted on by his parents and had loving relationships with his brothers and sisters and entire extended family. Significantly, he says this journey through his brain has changed the way he thinks about nature and nurture. He once believed that genes and brain function could determine everything about us. But now he thinks his childhood may have made all the difference.To me, Fallon's own story at least anecdotally points to nurture, not nature, as providing the necessary elements for destructive antisocial behavior.

{edit, to add} The interview with Fallon that Meggings posted gives a different flavor. Here Fallon seems to fit my previous definition for a "sociopath" but not a "psychopath."

Do you have any real life experience of one or more of these people, like I do? Did you read the websites I provided, or find any on your own, where people tell the tales of how their lives have been destroyed by one or more of these people?

People who think that psychopathy is caused by a lack of nurture are just plain wrong. James Fallon is a psychopath, and he is making excuses for them because he is one. He is a leading figure in the normalization of psychopathy, and the effort, which is succeeding, to make psychopathy look like a good thing. Beware of the wolf in sheep's clothing that is the diagnosed psychopath James Fallon.

Or maybe you will meet a psychopath. If you do, you won't know it at first. You will think they are the most wonderful person in the world, until they turn on you, and they always do...sooner or later. And then you will wonder what hit you, as your bank account is drained, and your wife and children are turned against you, and your life and your world is ruined...all without harming a hair on your head.

addition I do not wish "meeting a psychopath" on anyone, btw. I wouldn't wish that on a dog.

[animovado]

I live in a country with roughly 5,5 million legal firearms dispersed over 1,45 million holders with an overall population of 80 million people. We have a strict gun law and we have long been considered as a nation with
the strictest one, but at the same time it was said to be the country with the most illegal weapons.
Despite the relatively small number of weapons in comparison with the US, we had four school shootings
within the last fifteen years and three of them were committed with illegal weapons.

Looking at the cases of undue use of force by the police in the US, it comes to my mind that the officers
have to perform their duty under great strains, partly because of the imminent danger of a gun pointed at them.
Police officers in my country seem to be much more relaxed, as far as I know them personally.

Additionally and in respect to what I would call the group spirit/ collective mind of the US, there is the huge
influence of the US-soldiers within your country, overseas and afloat, many of them characterized by the traumas of active service in combat.

Because I’m not an US citizen and aside from my belief that it is a human and worldwide problem, I can make no judgement about what is the right thing to do in the USA concerning the topic of gun laws.
But I like to say that Dennis and Gripreaper are reflecting my thoughts about that the most and I appreciate
their comments very much. Make the difference!

One final statement:

Love is vulnerable and just fear needs protection.

[heyokah]

[.....snip]

Because I’m not an US citizen and aside from my belief that it is a human and worldwide problem, I can make no judgement about what is the right thing to do in the USA concerning the topic of gun laws.
But I like to say that Dennis and Gripreaper are reflecting my thoughts about that the most and I appreciate
their comments very much. Make the difference!

One final statement:

Love is vulnerable and just fear needs protection.

Thank you animovabo.
As another non US citizen I can say, I fully agree with you and thank Dennis and Gripreaper for their comments.

[Selkie]

Btw, on the subject of psychopaths...who are social predators...and the harm they can cause without physically hurting anyone,

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85747-Extremes-of-belief&p=1006222&viewfull=1#post1006222

p.s. If I have accidentally broken some rule by posting the above post here, Mods, delete it, please.

[observer]

[....snip]

Despite the relatively small number of weapons in comparison with the US, we had four school shootings
within the last fifteen years and three of them were committed with illegal weapons.

Thank you animovado for acknowledging Dennis and grip's valuable contributions to this thread. I concur with my greatest respect, as well.

I have emphasized a critical point you made in your statement. Although you don't mention what country you are from - a point that would have helped us understand your opinion - you do point-out the fact that "illegal weapons" are available anywhere someone with criminal intent wants to obtain them.

This is the crux of the Gun Control issue here in the States. Anyone with the ability to critically think recognizes, right away, these draconian gun laws are designed to turn law abiding citizens into criminals.

You comment underwrites the understanding: any criminal, anywhere in the world, can obtain an illegal fire arm, while law abiding citizens are prevented access to those same fire arms for the purpose of self protection. This right was granted to American Citizens by the Second Amendment of the Constitution.

In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

[Selkie]

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

It really is as simple as this, and no one who would rather be marched to the pit and shot in the back of the head ought to be able to vote my choice to stand my ground away from me.

[animovado]

This is the crux of the Gun Control issue here in the States. Anyone with the ability to critically think recognizes, right away, these draconian gun laws are designed to turn law abiding citizens into criminals.

You comment underwrites the understanding: any criminal, anywhere in the world, can obtain an illegal fire arm, while law abiding citizens are prevented access to those same fire arms for the purpose of self protection. This right was granted to American Citizens by the Second Amendment of the Constitution.

In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

At least you have to honor your beliefs. It's your decision and I will respectfully honor
it, too.
But increasing control is fear driven as is the protection against it. Full circle - no way out!? I question that.

Observer, there's so much I see in the US that's reassuring that I can't imagine a live there in the way we had it once in Germany.

All the best to you!

[Dennis Leahy]

...
In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

My take on this is that, no, an individual cannot protect themselves from a tyrannanical government. There might be some self-satisfaction by firing a few shots before they take you out, but since you would not survive, you cannot say you protected yourself, or that you "won." Shot in the back of the head or shot in the front of the head - dead. And the tyrannical government rolls on...

The battle-cry to arm ourselves is right out of millenniums past and simply won't work. It's like a slingshot versus a satellite-directed Hellfire missile. It's desperation. It's romantic. It's folly.

If IF we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be without firing a shot. If we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be because we united, and because we came up with a non-violent plan that took away all of their tactical advantage.

[Selkie]

...
In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

My take on this is that, no, an individual cannot protect themselves from a tyrannanical government. There might be some self-satisfaction by firing a few shots before they take you out, but since you would not survive, you cannot say you protected yourself, or that you "won." Shot in the back of the head or shot in the front of the head - dead. And the tyrannical government rolls on...

In the instance of what observer said in the post above, its not about protecting oneself from tyrannical gov't. Its about choosing to die on one's feet, rather than on one's knees.

Oh, and btw, about Gandhi,

http://tv.naturalnews.com/thumbs/8916-1.jpg

[heyokah]

http://tv.naturalnews.com/thumbs/8916-1.jpg

In that passage,^^^^ Gandhi references India’s Arms Act of 1878, which gave Europeans in India the right to carry firearms but prevented Indians from doing so, unless they were granted a license by the British colonial government.

The full text of what he wrote is: “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.”

Here's What Gandhi really thought about guns

http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

[Selkie]

In that passage,^^^^ Gandhi references India’s Arms Act of 1878, which gave Europeans in India the right to carry firearms but prevented Indians from doing so, unless they were granted a license by the British colonial government.

The full text of what he wrote is: “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.”

Here's What Gandhi really thought about guns

http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

(my emphasis at the end of the quote)

Thank you, that ^^^ makes my point...that Gandhi was for the right of the people to keep and bear arms...even more clear :)


http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

...In truth, Gandhi did not oppose the use of violence in certain circumstances, preferring it to cowardice and submission. Even though Gandhi’s spiritual philosophy of ahimsa rejects violence, it permits the use of violent force if a person is not courageous and disciplined enough to use nonviolence. Gandhi regarded weakness as the lowest human flaw, and would rather see a person use violent force in self-defense than be passive...

It should be remembered, too, that India was throwing off foreign rule, while the people of the United States would be standing against their very own government...a government that does not respect the very Constitution every single government official has sworn to uphold and defend. And that, last but not least, Americans are Americans...we are not Indians nor Dutch nor French nor English nor anyone else.

[heyokah]

Yes, ^^^^reading the whole article takes some time and effort. I understand.

:faint:

*** add, after Silkie's addition to her comment



http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

...In truth, Gandhi did not oppose the use of violence in certain circumstances, preferring it to cowardice and submission. Even though Gandhi’s spiritual philosophy of ahimsa rejects violence, it permits the use of violent force if a person is not courageous and disciplined enough to use nonviolence. Gandhi regarded weakness as the lowest human flaw, and would rather see a person use violent force in self-defense than be passive...



It should be remembered, too, that India was throwing off foreign rule, while the people of the United States would be standing against their very own government...a government that does not respect the very Constitution every single government official has sworn to uphold and defend. And that, last but not least, Americans are Americans...we are not Indians nor Dutch nor French nor English nor anyone else.

(My emphasis)


Glad you took the time to read some of the article to get the nuances.

This is the end of the article.


In the end, India rejected the “doctrine of the sword” and gained independence from the British Empire through “Soul Force.”
Indians learned from Gandhi the methods of the strong, the methods of satyagraha; acknowledging that guns only add more violence to the world.
Will the United States be so brave?

(my emphasis)

[Dennis Leahy]

...
In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

My take on this is that, no, an individual cannot protect themselves from a tyrannanical government. There might be some self-satisfaction by firing a few shots before they take you out, but since you would not survive, you cannot say you protected yourself, or that you "won." Shot in the back of the head or shot in the front of the head - dead. And the tyrannical government rolls on...

In the instance of what observer said in the post above, its not about protecting oneself from tyrannical gov't. Its about choosing to die on one's feet, rather than on one's knees.
Why not think bigger? Why not think about living, standing up? Why not think about actually taking over our own governance? Why stay in this hyper-adrenaline mindset? Isn't that a victim stance? A WORKABLE non-violent plan for US citizens to take over our our own governance would not follow the example of India, or anywhere else on Earth and no other time on Earth. This is a new, unique situation, and requires a unique approach. "Non-violent" does not mean kneel. It will be brain, not brawn, that wins. Guns will not play a part in a US citizens' takeover of the US government.

[Curt]

Dennis, I hear ya brother. I don't own a gun and never will. And you're right, whatever guns ordinary people have access to aren't going to stop hellfire missiles.

But here's what I hope those guns in the possession of law-abiding citizens will do: I hope that all 350 million of them throughout the country, collectively, act as a kind of 'deterrent' for total tyranny- that they act as a bulwark against a total takeover- simply by being there.

When, whoever is in charge of deciding such things, crunches all the numbers in their flashy super-computers, I hope they see how 'expensive' it would be to them to institute total physical control over the population. And I hope that 'cost' gives them pause.

But more than anything, I hope all 350 million of those guns stay locked behind glass cases gathering dust- never to be used.

Because one to one match-ups aren't going to be pretty for ordinary citizens. Their guns, on an individual basis, will be like slingshots.

But maybe, collectively, their very existence will be enough to keep 'Goliath' at bay- at least for a time, while we work on other solutions.



...
In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

My take on this is that, no, an individual cannot protect themselves from a tyrannanical government. There might be some self-satisfaction by firing a few shots before they take you out, but since you would not survive, you cannot say you protected yourself, or that you "won." Shot in the back of the head or shot in the front of the head - dead. And the tyrannical government rolls on...

The battle-cry to arm ourselves is right out of millenniums past and simply won't work. It's like a slingshot versus a satellite-directed Hellfire missile. It's desperation. It's romantic. It's folly.

If IF we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be without firing a shot. If we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be because we united, and because we came up with a non-violent plan that took away all of their tactical advantage.

[Selkie]

..Why not think bigger? Why not think about living, standing up? Why not think about actually taking over our own governance? Why stay in this hyper-adrenaline mindset? Isn't that a victim stance? A WORKABLE non-violent plan for US citizens to take over our our own governance would not follow the example of India, or anywhere else on Earth and no other time on Earth. This is a new, unique situation, and requires a unique approach. "Non-violent" does not mean kneel. It will be brain, not brawn, that wins. Guns will not play a part in a US citizens' takeover of the US government.

I think brains backed by brawn has a better shot than either brains or brawn, alone.

[observer]

[....snip]

If IF we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be without firing a shot. If we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be because we united, and because we came up with a non-violent plan that took away all of their tactical advantage.

With the greatest respect for this desire in my heart, and with no malice intended toward Dennis, I must ask, "how has this been working for you so far?"

As an armature historian, I see only endless epochs of mass extensions regurgitated through the historic record. Each time humanity has reached the potential of a Golden Age, a mass extension occurs, and the same draconian operation begins anew.

The forces of Abject Evil which we face, trapped here within this Dark-Side Matrix will require a quorum much greater than the few hundred thousand who might possibly be behind this initiative Dennis is suggesting.

To make any change to the Common Reality, one must influence the Mass Consciousness of Humanity. I simply don't perceive enough time, for the few who understand, to make a difference.

Based on the historic record, I choose to "stand my ground".




[....snip]

.... its not about protecting oneself from tyrannical gov't. Its about choosing to die on one's feet, rather than on one's knees.

[....snip]

But.... I reiterate, keep moving forward with hope in our hearts. Hope is all we have....

[heyokah]

http://i60.tinypic.com/2hd6z42.jpg

[Selkie]

Yes, ^^^^reading the whole article takes some time and effort. I understand.

:faint:

This post ^^^ makes no contribution at all to the overall discussion, and its sole purpose appears to be to anger and provoke me.

[Selkie]

https://patinthehat00.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/my_neighbor_wants_to_ban_all_guns_letterhead-p1999169946874837352mgiy_400.jpg

[Pam]

CNN Alters Photo of Umpqua Killer Chris Harper-Mercer to Make Him Look White

By David Icke on 5th October 2015 The Police State, Useless Media

==================================================

http://static.infowars.com/p/prison_planet_logo2.jpg


CNN Alters Photo of Umpqua Killer Chris Harper-Mercer to Make Him Look White

The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV
Infowars.com Twitter Alex Jones' Facebook Infowars store

Jim Hoft....Gateway Pundit
October 4, 2015

CNN photoshops the photo of Oregon killer Chris Harper-Mercer to make him look white.

Chris was the son of Ian Mercer from Great Britain and Laurel Margaret Harper.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/mercer-parents1.jpg


Conservative Treehouse
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/02/the-curious-case-of-oregon-shooter-chris-harper-mercer-a-social-media-profile-shaped-modified-and-deleted/

Chris lived with his mother Laurel.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/mercer-harper.jpg
He posted this selfie online.
mercer harper

But, according to Conservative Treehouse, CNN altered the image to make Harper-Mercer look white.



http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/mercer-cnn-575x339.jpg

‘On the left is the selfie Christopher Mercer uploaded to his social media. On the right is how
CNN presented the same selfie in broadcast stories about him. Why did CNN need to change
the complexion (color) of their broadcast? Why is no-one showing pictures of mom, Laurel Margaret Harper.

His online profiles have been erased since the shooting.’

Read more: CNN Alters Photo of Umpqua Killer Chris Harper-Mercer to Make Him Look White

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cnn-alters-photo-of-umpqua-killer-chris-harper-mercer-to-make-him-look-white.html


I found this thread on ATS and found this post interesting;


theantediluvian
posted on Oct, 4 2015 @ 08:12 PM

The Disinformation Superhighway: CNN Didn't Alter Oregon Shooter's Image

All too often the most virulent disinformation comes from sources claiming to expose the disinformation in mainstream media. As I see it, among the most significant issues with the majority of political blogs and other alternative outlets are:

1. Consumers tend to give these outlets the benefit of the doubt because they claim to reveal 'the truth' hidden by the MSM boogeymen. This is particularly true in the case of conservatives who believe the mainstream is dominated by a 'liberal agenda.'

2. Regardless of the accuracy of the content, there's very little accountability since consumers tend to have remarkably short attention spans and advertisers are either permissive or complicit in the spread of disinformation for propaganda purposes.

3. Outlets aggregate from one another which reinforces the apparent validity of disinformation, makes it harder to source and debunk, far more difficult to remove and insulates the reputations of those outlets that republish disinformation.

Just like with the big boys, the most successful outlets are those that churn out the highest volume of sensational headlines. Unlike the big boys, there's no real downside to being wrong or flat out lying.

Simply put, it doesn't pay to have standards.

Over the last 48 hours, an image purporting to show the 'whitening' of the Oregon shooter by CNN has gone viral. A brief sample of the repititions of this bit of disinformation can be seen at the following (even Fox's Megyn Kelly gets into the action since her blog republishes from The Gateway Pundit):

Megyn Kelly
Infowars
Gateway Pundit
Media Circus
Conservative Angle

All of the above (and dozens more) outlets cite a single source for the image and the allegation, this post at The Conservative Tree House, which contains the following image and claims:

Same images as posted above.


On the left is the selfie Christopher Mercer uploaded to his social media. On the right is how CNN presented the same selfie in broadcast stories about him. Why did CNN need to change the complexion (color) of their broadcast? Why is no-one showing pictures of mom, Laurel Margaret Harper.



What is lacking is any provenance for the image. No source video is linked and in fact, no information at all is provided. Fortunately a little Google sleuthing turned up the likely source. Rolling over the publish date of the blog post, you'll see that it was published at 10:29 PM on October 2nd. Searching Google Images by image and looking for occurrences of the image on the 2nd and before, I found what appears to be its origin, Twitter user andieiamwhoiam's tweet at 12:03 PM (EST, my timezone), Oct 2nd which can be viewed here. The tweet reads:

"The #UCCShooting killer was a black male. Look what the media did to his photo."

As of now, the tweet has 1519 retweets and has been favorited 703 times and andieiamwhoiam has 2,896 followers. If you scroll down a bit, you'll see an exchange where another Twitter user asks about where the image came from (link):

"andieiam ‏@andieiamwhoiam Oct 2
@LadyPatriot777 I copied it from a liberal Tweeter. I wish I knew how popular it would become."

"LadyPatriot777 ‏@LadyPatriot777 Oct 2
.@andieiamwhoiam A liberal tweeter??? I would have thought no liberal would send out something like that! Which tweeter??"

"andieiam ‏@andieiamwhoiam Oct 3
@LadyPatriot777 The whiter photo only. I was so mad I copied it and found an actual photo online. Then I put them together."

So here we have the earliest appearance of the image indexed by Google, a heavily retweeted tweet, and an admission by the person who tweeted it that she created the image used by the Conservative Treehouse. Andieiamwhoiam of course blames a "liberal Tweeter" whose name "she" (who knows?) can't remember even though "she" claims that "she" was so incensed by it that she immediately searched and found the source image, Photoshopped it next to the lighter image and Tweeted her composite image. Notice that the scale/cropping/etc are identical, so either "she" found an exact copy of the source, cropped out exactly the same pixels as those used by the phantom tweeter from a larger image or simply pasted her own doctored image next to the source she created it from.

As a bit of a bonus dear friends, I also came across a deleted post from The Gateway Pundit from October 1st entitled
BREAKING: Internet Trolls Altered Chris Harper Mercer’s Online Profile Today – Now Says He’s “Conservative” that is cached here. That deleted post has an embedded tweet from The Gateway Pundit (Jim Hoft) that has also since been deleted.
edit on 2015-10-4 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)

[Selkie]

...So here we have the earliest appearance of the image indexed by Google, a heavily retweeted tweet, and an admission by the person who tweeted it that she created the image used by the Conservative Treehouse. Andieiamwhoiam of course blames a "liberal Tweeter" whose name "she" (who knows?) can't remember even though "she" claims that "she" was so incensed by it that she immediately searched and found the source image, Photoshopped it next to the lighter image and Tweeted her composite image. Notice that the scale/cropping/etc are identical, so either "she" found an exact copy of the source, cropped out exactly the same pixels as those used by the phantom tweeter from a larger image or simply pasted her own doctored image next to the source she created it from.

As a bit of a bonus dear friends, I also came across a deleted post from The Gateway Pundit from October 1st entitled
BREAKING: Internet Trolls Altered Chris Harper Mercer’s Online Profile Today – Now Says He’s “Conservative” that is cached here. That deleted post has an embedded tweet from The Gateway Pundit (Jim Hoft) that has also since been deleted.
edit on 2015-10-4 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)

Yes, the whole thing is a mind-f***, whether people actually died or not.

[Dennis Leahy]

Dennis, I hear ya brother. I don't own a gun and never will. And you're right, whatever guns ordinary people have access to aren't going to stop hellfire missiles.

But here's what I hope those guns in the possession of law-abiding citizens will do: I hope that all 350 million of them throughout the country, collectively, act as a kind of 'deterrent' for total tyranny- that they act as a bulwark against a total takeover- simply by being there.

When, whoever is in charge of deciding such things, crunches all the numbers in their flashy super-computers, I hope they see how 'expensive' it would be to them to institute total physical control over the population. And I hope that 'cost' gives them pause.

But more than anything, I hope all 350 million of those guns stay locked behind glass cases gathering dust- never to be used.

Because one to one match-ups aren't going to be pretty for ordinary citizens. Their guns, on an individual basis, will be like slingshots.

But maybe, collectively, their very existence will be enough to keep 'Goliath' at bay- at least for a time, while we work on other solutions.



...
In a world of ever-increasing control, only you can protect yourself against tyranny. Many Americans share this understanding:

We would rather go-down standing our ground, than to be marched into an open pit and shot in the back of the head by a tyrannical government.

My take on this is that, no, an individual cannot protect themselves from a tyrannanical government. There might be some self-satisfaction by firing a few shots before they take you out, but since you would not survive, you cannot say you protected yourself, or that you "won." Shot in the back of the head or shot in the front of the head - dead. And the tyrannical government rolls on...

The battle-cry to arm ourselves is right out of millenniums past and simply won't work. It's like a slingshot versus a satellite-directed Hellfire missile. It's desperation. It's romantic. It's folly.

If IF we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be without firing a shot. If we defeat our tyrannical government, it will be because we united, and because we came up with a non-violent plan that took away all of their tactical advantage.Hey, bro!

I have vacillated on that same issue. Do all the US gun owners create a deterrent to the US government, for some sort of "next step" action the government is covertly planning? Sometimes I think that it might, other times I try to envision the scenario where it might...and fall short. Since we US citizens are completely under control already - no matter how many guns we have - why would the US government actually use violent force against US citizens? If they already have 100% control, what is it they want? Do they want us to bow and curtsy to them, do they want us to smile bigger smiles?

US citizens have ZERO control over the actions of the US government. What action would US citizens take, guns in hand, that would take control away from the miscreants that control the US government? It just does not compute, in my mind. The concept of a "cold war" between armed US citizens and the US government may have some merit - I don't know, even that may be an illusion we citizens are grasping at. If the "cold war" goes "hot", citizens with guns outside their own homes will immediately be labeled as "terrorists" and "insurgents", and slaughtered. ...and NONE of the blood in the streets will be that of the Controllers. A gun battle/war between US citizens and the US government and all of its sophisticated weaponry and surveillance apparatus would be Bambi vs. Godzilla. Why would we push for that? I just cannot fathom anything starting with US citizens with guns ending with "and they all lived happily everafter."

Now, Selkie and Operator are not actually talking about offensive action, they are talking about defensive action. I get it. It's honorable to protect yourself and your family from attack. But, I hate to leave it with that, when there are so many gun owners that seem to believe that having - and using - those guns would result in a "win" by citizens.

A "standoff" is not a win - US citizens still have ZERO control over their own governance, and no control over the death and destruction globally that the US government creates.

If someone wants to polish the shaft of their barrel and count their bullets to feel safe, well, sorry, that is not safety. At least they could have a quiet understanding that the guns-as-deterrant is a defensive cold-war tactic and the use of those guns not to ever be taken literally as a tactic for paradigm change - and ALSO work toward a solution where US citizens gain control of the government, gain control of our own governance.

[Selkie]

...If someone wants to polish the shaft of their barrel and count their bullets to feel safe, well, sorry, that is not safety.

It may not be safety to you, but it may be to them. With respect, please do not ask others to feel safe in a way that is right for you, but is not right for them.


...At least they could have a quiet understanding that the guns-as-deterrant is a defensive cold-war tactic and the use of those guns not to ever be taken literally as a tactic for paradigm change...

This is a belief. There are many who do not believe as you believe.


...and ALSO work toward a solution where US citizens gain control of the government, gain control of our own governance.

Many gun-owners do just that, but they are given no credit for it all by the media, which would prefer everyone to think that all gun-owners are far-right wackos.

[greybeard]

If you need a gun to feel or even to be free then you you are imprisoned by your own thoughts--

You can almost tell what I am going to say as I am consistent.

Its my opinion that the only freedom comes from fully understanding that you are not the body and are spirit having a human experience.
That's where the the power to bring about change comes from.
Gandhi---"Be the change you want to see"--It obviously worked for him.

A story
Alexander the Great heard of a Mystic in India and summoned the holy man to come to him.
The Sage refused several time Alexander personally went to the sage and said "If you dont come with me I will chop your head off with my sword."
The Sage responded "Then we will both watch the head fall to the ground"
Alexander had to accept not getting his way.

Now that seems a long way from preventing another mass shooting but "A rising tide lifts all boats" President Kennedy said that.
So every time one acts with kindness, forgiveness the effect spreads like a ripple through the collective consciousness.
A raised consciousness is incapable of acts of violence as it knows that everything that is done is done to Self.
We are personally responsible for raising consciousness and its happening.

Please have a look at my signature.

Chris

[heyokah]

In that passage,^^^^ Gandhi references India’s Arms Act of 1878, which gave Europeans in India the right to carry firearms but prevented Indians from doing so, unless they were granted a license by the British colonial government.

The full text of what he wrote is: “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.”

Here's What Gandhi really thought about guns

http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

(my emphasis at the end of the quote)

Thank you, that ^^^ makes my point...that Gandhi was for the right of the people to keep and bear arms...even more clear :)



http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

...In truth, Gandhi did not oppose the use of violence in certain circumstances, preferring it to cowardice and submission. Even though Gandhi’s spiritual philosophy of ahimsa rejects violence, it permits the use of violent force if a person is not courageous and disciplined enough to use nonviolence. Gandhi regarded weakness as the lowest human flaw, and would rather see a person use violent force in self-defense than be passive...

It should be remembered, too, that India was throwing off foreign rule, while the people of the United States would be standing against their very own government...a government that does not respect the very Constitution every single government official has sworn to uphold and defend. And that, last but not least, Americans are Americans...we are not Indians nor Dutch nor French nor English nor anyone else.




Yes, ^^^^reading the whole article takes some time and effort. I understand.

:faint:

This post ^^^ makes no contribution at all to the overall discussion, and its sole purpose appears to be to anger and provoke me.

*** add, after Silkie's addition to her comment (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006591&viewfull=1#post1006591)

Glad you took the time to read some of the article to get the nuances.

This is the end of the article.


In the end, India rejected the “doctrine of the sword” and gained independence from the British Empire through “Soul Force.”
Indians learned from Gandhi the methods of the strong, the methods of satyagraha; acknowledging that guns only add more violence to the world.
Will the United States be so brave?

(my emphasis)

[Selkie]

In that passage,^^^^ Gandhi references India’s Arms Act of 1878, which gave Europeans in India the right to carry firearms but prevented Indians from doing so, unless they were granted a license by the British colonial government.

The full text of what he wrote is: “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.”

Here's What Gandhi really thought about guns

http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

(my emphasis at the end of the quote)

Thank you, that ^^^ makes my point...that Gandhi was for the right of the people to keep and bear arms...even more clear :)



http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/what-gandhi-really-thought-about-guns/

...In truth, Gandhi did not oppose the use of violence in certain circumstances, preferring it to cowardice and submission. Even though Gandhi’s spiritual philosophy of ahimsa rejects violence, it permits the use of violent force if a person is not courageous and disciplined enough to use nonviolence. Gandhi regarded weakness as the lowest human flaw, and would rather see a person use violent force in self-defense than be passive...

It should be remembered, too, that India was throwing off foreign rule, while the people of the United States would be standing against their very own government...a government that does not respect the very Constitution every single government official has sworn to uphold and defend. And that, last but not least, Americans are Americans...we are not Indians nor Dutch nor French nor English nor anyone else.




Yes, ^^^^reading the whole article takes some time and effort. I understand.

:faint:

This post ^^^ makes no contribution at all to the overall discussion, and its sole purpose appears to be to anger and provoke me.

*** add, after Silkie's addition to her comment (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006591&viewfull=1#post1006591)

Glad you took the time to read some of the article to get the nuances.

This is the end of the article.


In the end, India rejected the “doctrine of the sword” and gained independence from the British Empire through “Soul Force.”
Indians learned from Gandhi the methods of the strong, the methods of satyagraha; acknowledging that guns only add more violence to the world.
Will the United States be so brave?

(my emphasis)

Well, good for them, but so what? Americans are not Indians. It would be as ridiculous as asking Indians to be like Americans. Like Bill said, people are different in different parts of the world.

Speaking of another kind of "Indian"

http://wbbh.images.worldnow.com/images/22117465_SA.jpg

addtion I had already read the whole article. You were assuming that I had not read it. But I dismissed it because to me, it is irrelevant. It is irrelevant because INDIANS ARE NOT AMERICANS, and what was right for them is not right for us, if the number of gun-owners is any indication, which I think it is. Good for the Indians that they are Indians. I am happy for them, and I would not want them to be any other way. But I am also glad that I am an American.

[Selkie]

...Now that seems a long way from preventing another mass shooting but "A rising tide lifts all boats" President Kennedy said that.
So every time one acts with kindness, forgiveness the effect spreads like a ripple through the collective consciousness.
A raised consciousness is incapable of acts of violence as it knows that everything that is done is done to Self.
We are personally responsible for raising consciousness and its happening.

Please have a look at my signature.

Chris

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oTvrRhcTzjg/hqdefault.jpg

David Koresh may have been a psychopath and a child molester, but he and all of his followers deserved due process of law.

[greybeard]

Forgiveness is not condoning.
Raised spirituality brings about right action and of course you are responsible for what you do.
Right action will of course imprison perpetrators,
Its not passive.
Im neither for or against owning guns.
Just looking at a way forward.
No physical action has brought about lasting change after years of lawmaking and protest against.

Chris

[Inmortal719]

both of heyokah and greybeard posts were lovely!
''that guns only add more violence to the world''
''If you need a gun to feel or even to be free then you you are imprisoned by your own thoughts''
If the gun culture in the US wouldn't have been sooooooo BIG, and guns would never take part ever in the first place, we wouldn't have to hear ever of shootings in the schools that often...

I posted a few days ago that in my country Mexico, the only people who have guns are the police, the army and federal agents, people that rob or kill with guns got them in the black market, imported somehow, or belonged to the cartels or in other words bought in USA... We don't have ANY shootings that I know of in our schools because guns are not available here as easy as in the USA!

We suffer a massive Cartel drug war in some states and every single gun used by the cartels are USA imports! :(! They are either current or used Army guns from USA... and because you can buy almost everything from USA sometimes the Cartels are super equipped even though they might not know how to use them... :(

[Selkie]

both of heyokah and greybeard posts were lovely!
''that guns only add more violence to the world''
''If you need a gun to feel or even to be free then you you are imprisoned by your own thoughts''
If the gun culture in the US wouldn't have been sooooooo BIG, and guns would never take part ever in the first place, we wouldn't have to hear ever of shootings in the schools that often...

I posted a few days ago that in my country Mexico, the only people who have guns are the police, the army and federal agents, people that rob or kill with guns got them in the black market, imported somehow, or belonged to the cartels or in other words bought in USA... We don't have ANY shootings that I know of in our schools because guns are not available here as easy as in the USA!

We suffer a massive Cartel drug war in some states and every single gun used by the cartels are USA imports! :(! They are either current or used Army guns from USA... and because you can buy almost everything from USA sometimes the Cartels are super equipped even though they might not know how to use them... :(

You probably don't have school shootings because they are not waging psychological war on you that way. They probably wage psychological warfare on you some other way, one that is tailored to your culture, the way school shootings are tailored to our culture.

[greybeard]

Respectfully Selkie I can not see that school shootings are tailored to the culture of USA.
Its a bit of a blanket statement.
I suppose if you get into statistics the incidence in America may be higher--however if you look at the percentage of these shootings as opposed to other violent death--the number of shooters is tiny. Accepting that one school shooting is one to many.

Chris

[Selkie]

Respectfully Selkie I can not see that school shootings are tailored to the culture of USA.
Its a bit of a blanket statement.
I suppose if you get into statistics the incidence in America may be higher--however if you look at the percentage of these shootings as opposed to other violent death--the number of shooters is tiny. Accepting that one school shooting is one to many.

Chris

The general discussion has become about guns and gun control, yes, but the OP is about a school shooting that may very well be a psy-op or "false flag" of some kind, and therefor an incident of psychological warfare.

[observer]

In the late 1800's, Wovoka, a spiritual leader, rallied Native American Nations under a non-violent theme called the Ghost Dance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance). Much like what many of the members are advocating, here on this thread, the Ghost Dance was a blending of spiritually with a non-violent theme.

History tells us how the expanding wave of Western Civilization solved the "Ghost Dance Problem" with a near-total inhalation of the Native American Population led by the likes of General George Custer. This is a template that can be recounted throughout the history of Human Civilization, far into antiquity.

Chief Crazy Horse, one of my personal heroes, made a political statement at the Little Bighorn. Crazy Horse's resistance did little to stop the wave of Western expansion, and it led to his death at the hands of the U.S. Calvary.

With his way of life viciously raped from his people, what little other choice did he have?

Different times.... similar circumstances.

[Inmortal719]

Regarding the gun control subject:
Just imagine if we remove guns from the equation, it's not like everyone is going to go outside and kill people with their fists, but they are so attached to guns to feel ''safe'' that it's like trying to take food from them....

Regarding the thread's purpose
Selkie IMO there is a high possibility that this event is being taken as an excuse to unarm people for future NWO and stuff...
I agreed with the picture showing that Gun control is good for people who will control the guns

[observer]

"but they are so attached to guns to feel ''safe'' that it's like trying to take food from them....


I must raise the :bs: flag to [the quoted part of] that statement.

[Selkie]

In the late 1800's, Wovoka, a spiritual leader, rallied Native American Nations under a non-violent theme called the Ghost Dance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance). Much like what many of the members are advocating, here on this thread, the Ghost Dance was a blending of spiritually with a non-violent theme.

History tells us how the expanding wave of Western Civilization solved the "Ghost Dance Problem" with a near-total inhalation of the Native American Populating led by the likes of General George Custer. This is a template that can be recounted throughout the history of Human Civilization, far into antiquity.

Chief Crazy Horse, one of my personal heroes, made a political statement at the Little Bighorn. Crazy Horse's resistance did little to stop the wave of Western expansion, and it led to his death at the hands of the U.S. Calvary.

With his way of life viciously raped from his people, what little other choice did he have?

Different times.... similar circumstances.

In other words, the Ghost Dance didn't work too well :(

[Cidersomerset]

A lot of these themes and threads overlap , I've been posting on the ISIS ,
Snowden & Saville threads earlier and they are connected imo. 'Problem reaction
solution '. Ongoing programmes, backed by propaganda for control. This agenda is
part of the domestic pacification of the US ' Gun culture ', which is a 'symbol' of
individual freedom in the US. This is counter to TNWO , who want a more docile
type of 'world citizen' who knows their place and class.

Of course you can add many nuances to this , as everyone has been commenting
on this thread so far,and a lot depends on your view point. We all have things in
common , being Avalon members. looking for truths and answers in the many
different aspects of the alternate field, from do ET's exit to the NWO agenda. So
although we may disagree on how we interpret ' events ' I hope we are all on the
same page , if not paragraph....LOL and if you are you feel you are not reading the
same book ? Well take a break and come back later......

Thank you all for taking part in the discussion, and feel free to continue ...Cheers Steve...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Propaganda.jpg

Wikileaks: US State Dept atempted to influence media to 'balance' interview w/ Assange

wWzLKmswyhk

Published on 4 Oct 2015


Wikileaks has revealed new files claiming that one of Americas well respected
news programs was taking directions from US State Department on how to
"balance" the interview with whistleblower and Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
With US officials accusing different channels of promoting their own ideas,
Marina Portnaya looks at who's really pulling the strings.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

===================================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Edward Snowden: "Nosey Smurf was hacking codename"

1 hour ago

In his first UK TV interview US whistleblower Edward Snowden has given the BBC
new details of GCHQ's ability to hack users' smartphones without their knowledge.

Short Vid on link....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34447463

Mr Snowden, a former analyst with the US National Security Agency (NSA) told
Panorama there was "very little" the public could do to stop GCHQ - the British
government's digital spy agency - getting control of their handsets.He described a
series of intercept capabilities named after Smurfs - the little blue imps of Belgian
cartoon fame. The UK government declined to comment on "intelligence matters".

Watch Peter Taylor's film: Edward Snowden, Spies and the Law on Panorama on
BBC One on Monday 5 October at 2030bst or catch up later online.

Read more
Edward Snowden interview: 'Smartphones can be taken over'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34447463

====================================================
====================================================

' NOSEY SMURF '....

Edward Snowden interview: 'Smartphones can be taken over'

Ng_dBm73FfA

Published on 5 Oct 2015

Smartphone users can do "very little" to stop security services getting "total
control" over their devices, US whistleblower Edward Snowden has said.
The former intelligence contractor told the BBC's Panorama that UK intelligence
agency GCHQ had the power to hack into phones without their owners' knowledge.
Mr Snowden said GCHQ could gain access to a handset by sending it an encrypted
text message and use it for such things as taking pictures and listening in.
The UK government declined to comment.

'Nosey Smurf'
Mr Snowden spoke to Panorama in Moscow, where he fled in 2013 after leaking to
the media details of extensive internet and phone surveillance by his former
employer, the US National Security Agency (NSA).

He did not suggest that either GCHQ or the NSA were interested in mass-
monitoring of citizens' private communications but said both agencies had invested
heavily in technology allowing them to hack smartphones. "They want to own your
phone instead of you," he said.

[Inmortal719]

"but they are so attached to guns to feel ''safe'' that it's like trying to take food from them....


I must raise the :bs: flag to [the quoted part of] that statement.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006616&viewfull=1#post1006616

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006053&viewfull=1#post1006053

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005646&viewfull=1#post1005646

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005648&viewfull=1#post1005648

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005706&viewfull=1#post1005706

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005508&viewfull=1#post1005508

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005429&viewfull=1#post1005429

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005616&viewfull=1#post1005616

Is that so? it feels like to only mention gun control scares people...
Anyone here is a Gun enthusiast? hehe

[observer]

In reply to comment #225,

Several years ago Cider, I posted a short video on who controls the media:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJNgm4kM24s

It will come as no surprise to the members that the Dulles Brothers were [later] key coordinators of the CFR, as well as a part of the driving force behind the creation of our modern intelligence community.

Within any criminal operation, rarely do the conspirators go outside of a small circle of friends.

[greybeard]

In the late 1800's, Wovoka, a spiritual leader, rallied Native American Nations under a non-violent theme called the Ghost Dance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance). Much like what many of the members are advocating, here on this thread, the Ghost Dance was a blending of spiritually with a non-violent theme.

History tells us how the expanding wave of Western Civilization solved the "Ghost Dance Problem" with a near-total inhalation of the Native American Populating led by the likes of General George Custer. This is a template that can be recounted throughout the history of Human Civilization, far into antiquity.

Chief Crazy Horse, one of my personal heroes, made a political statement at the Little Bighorn. Crazy Horse's resistance did little to stop the wave of Western expansion, and it led to his death at the hands of the U.S. Calvary.

With his way of life rapped from his people, what little other choice did he have?

Different times.... similar circumstances.

In other words, the Ghost Dance didn't work too well :(

I suspect the Indians would have been massacred regardless---the land etc was required by the white man.
Times are different now---consciousness is rising --you only have to look at the interest in spiritual books and authors--millions of readers.
You become what you imbibe regularly--space repetition.

Eckhart Tolle was asked about consciousness and that it seemed that things were getting worse. His response was that the "worse" was much more noisy/noticeable whilst the improvement was quietly accelerating and after a period of chaos there will be a New Earth as in a much raised consciousness.
Not airy fairy New age but far reaching change.

The enlightenment thread in the spiritual section gets almost three thousand visits a week. every week, that says some thing.

Honestly to my mind the only solution is a raised consciousness.
The Buddha taught this as the removal of misery.
We are ignorant of our true nature.
Once the true nature is realised by enough people the world will change--it has no option but to.

Chris

[Dennis Leahy]

...If someone wants to polish the shaft of their barrel and count their bullets to feel safe, well, sorry, that is not safety.

It may not be safety to you, but it may be to them. With respect, please do not ask others to feel safe in a way that is right for you, but is not right for them.
Selkie,
Don't you think the more sentient gun owners should let the less sentient gun owners know that having and using guns against the US government affords them about the same safety as owning and using a flyswatter? Note I am NOT talking about home invasion by other citizens, I am specifically talking about the US government. Do you believe YOU would be alive if they want you dead and come to kill you? It's a rhetorical question and in that scenario, you will be dead, which is NOT "safe."



...At least they could have a quiet understanding that the guns-as-deterrant is a defensive cold-war tactic and the use of those guns not to ever be taken literally as a tactic for paradigm change...

This is a belief. There are many who do not believe as you believe.
Then, please lay out a narrative of how you think it is possible for US citizens with guns to create a paradigm change. Specifics. (Maybe start a thread.) How would it all go down? Remember, with the surveillance apparatus in place, no stealth at all is possible by citizens, so the US government would know your plans in advance - and you'd be "outgunned" 100,000 to 1 by the technology, weaponry, reconnaissance, infrared tracking, drones, satellites...

Are you talking about US citizen gun owners staying in their homes (strictly defense) and protecting the canned tuna and bag of lentils, or an offensive war against the US military, police, DHS, FBI, CIA, ATF and other armed and networked agencies? Be sure to include what you think the US government stands to gain by attacking US citizens (since they already have complete control over us.)

Note that I am not advocating that US citizens arm themselves nor that US citizens disarm themselves. It makes NO difference! We have NO control over our own governance, and we will have no control over our governance whether US citizens stockpile another ten million weapons or if they opt not to have guns.

I'm also not a "gun control" advocate. I don't believe there would be less mass shootings (or even individual murders in the US) from waiting periods or background checks (most insanity is hidden and people who want to commit crimes using a gun can always find one.) As I stated before, the problem is a mental pathology rampant in the US: a conditioning to use deadly force in any conflict, and use it as a first measure ("shoot first; ask questions later.").

I am against "open carry." I see it as unbelievably selfish for someone openly carrying a gun to feel safe while making almost every other person feel unsafe when they see the gun and "gunman", and cannot possibly know what is going on in the mind of the person openly displaying a weapon in public. Also, by openly carrying a weapon, the person immediately becomes the prime target for a sniper - so much for actually "being safe."

I'm not afraid of guns but I am afraid of idiots with guns. I don't own a gun and never will (though I can shoot.) I am not simply theorizing about guns and gun culture. A number of my friends have guns (mostly for hunting and a few have them for "home protection.") I have had a cocked, loaded 45 pointed at my head (I was a groomsman in his wedding a few weeks before - I guess my wedding gift was not big enough heheheh) and I have applied direct pressure to a blood-spurting arterial gunshot wound, taking a friend to a hospital. I know what bullets can do.

I'm also not advocating passivity. I'm not advocating a meditation session to heal the hearts of the miscreant Rulers, or a sage smudge to chase away the demons. "Non-violent" just means, well, "not using violence" to try to solve issues that won't be solved by violence. I think people are so steeped in their belief that the government will always be an adversary and our best hope is to hold them in-check that people don't even stop to think about what they want as an ultimate goal. When I see a tyrannical government, I don't want to pile sandbags and load bullets, I want to disassemble the tyrannical government, to take over the government and make a new one that is 100% controlled by citizens. If I truly believed the way to achieve that goal was to stockpile guns and ammo I would stockpile guns and ammo - but instead I am using my brain: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?44014-The-Reset-Button-Movement&p=997299&viewfull=1#post997299

As I keep asking the activists that I know: "Do you want to fight, or do you want to win?"

[Cidersomerset]

It will come as no surprise to the members that the Dulles Brothers were key coordinators of the CFR

" No surprise Observer ".....LOL


The Dulles bros were part of the powefull inner political circles of US policy from
Project Paperclip , CIA early covert projects, and implicated in the JFK
assassination. At the height of their power in the 1950's they were responsible for
US covert foreign policy that is still being played out today.

=====================================

Our Interesting Times with Tim Kelly, guest James Corbett on the Dulles Brothers 9-26-2015

6k4aaMHlFNg

Published on 26 Sep 2015


Our Interesting Times with Tim Kelly, guest James Corbett on the Dulles Brothers
and the Anglo-American Empire - http://UCY.TV/OIT
James Corbett joins the show to discuss his video "Meet Allen Dulles: Fascist Spymaster."
We talk about Allen Welsh Dulles and his brother John Foster Dulles and how their careers
in Wall Street and Washington provide an excellent illustration of how the Anglo-American
Empire imposes its brand of monopoly capitalism. We also discuss the true nature of the
Cold War, the JFK assassination and other intrigues of the Deep State.

James is the host, editor and webmaster of the Corbett Report, an independent, open-source,
listener-supported alternative news website. He is a filmmaker, researcher, and journalist.
James is also an editorial writer for The International Forecaster, a financial newsletter started
by the late Bob Chapman.

UCY.TV is an investigative media platform, designed to give YOU a voice on the platform of
your choice: Video, live radio, podcasts, written articles and more. UCY.TV's website
offers visitors top-notch ORIGINAL alternative news from reputable journalists, investigative
field reporters, insightful radio broadcasts, LIVE video streams, exclusive interviews, archives
and an intelligent forum. To learn more about how to become a part of UCY and lend your
voice to the growing alternative media movement, email:
contact.ucytv@gmail.com. Real news, for the people, by the people.

======================================================

James Corbett on the Dulles Brothers and the Anglo-American Empire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmcaRki1lPs

Published on 21 Sep 2015

James Corbett joins the show to discuss his video "Meet Allen Dulles: Fascist Spymaster."
We talk about Allen Welsh Dulles and his brother John Foster Dulles and how their careers
in Wall Street and Washington provide an excellent illustration of how the Anglo-American
Empire imposes its brand of monopoly capitalism. We also discuss the true nature of the
Cold War, the JFK assassination and other intrigues of the Deep State.

[observer]

I'm going to refrain from rebutting any more comments in this thread, because it seems like, no matter how much history I attempt to enlighten the membership with, it's as if I'm beating my head against a brick wall.

The same characters keep regurgitating the same hypnotically induced memes, somehow theorizing history will not repeat itself.

History has ALWAYS repeated itself, far before there ever was any recorded antiquity....

[Selkie]

...If someone wants to polish the shaft of their barrel and count their bullets to feel safe, well, sorry, that is not safety.

It may not be safety to you, but it may be to them. With respect, please do not ask others to feel safe in a way that is right for you, but is not right for them.

Selkie,
Don't you think the more sentient gun owners should let the less sentient gun owners know that having and using guns against the US government affords them about the same safety as owning and using a flyswatter? Note I am NOT talking about home invasion by other citizens, I am specifically talking about the US government. Do you believe YOU would be alive if they want you dead and come to kill you? It's a rhetorical question and in that scenario, you will be dead, which is NOT "safe."

Its not about what you believe, or what I believe. It is about what they believe. If they believe that their arms keep them safe, then they are entitled to that belief, and who is anyone to gainsay them?

To call them "less sentient" is to refer to them as lesser beings, not fit to decide their own fate, no matter what it is. It is to refer to them as less-than-adult because they do not believe as you believe.


...Are you talking about US citizen gun owners staying in their homes (strictly defense) and protecting the canned tuna and bag of lentils, or an offensive war against the US military, police, DHS, FBI, CIA, ATF and other armed and networked agencies?

I am talking about people defending whatever they feel like they need to defend, whether it is a bag of beans or anything else.


Be sure to include what you think the US government stands to gain by attacking US citizens (since they already have complete control over us.)

It may not have anything to gain long-term. It could do it in a fit of pique, such as what happened at Waco,

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oTvrRhcTzjg/hqdefault.jpg

or as an object lesson, as what happened at Ruby Ridge,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nzi0yo9d1_M/VCRZoIts6sI/AAAAAAAAFm4/Ws9hu-G0nOA/s1600/ruby-ridge.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

History has ALWAYS repeated itself, far before there ever was any recorded antiquity....

Don't get to frustrated , I put a recent post on a thread saying the same thing
and history is all about cycles that have gone on since recorded history as you
say.....


====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Re: Goes back a couple hundred years ... read em and weep

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85414-Goes-back-a-couple-hundred-years-...-read-em-and-weep&p=1001643&viewfull=1#post1001643

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a bit of De Ja vous or continuity as my last post was more or less on this
subject.....I am a history buff both military , social and especially alternate, but
I find if you do not understand and know what came before , we are probably
destined to repeat the same mistakes.

Now going on from there I'm pretty sure the elites use this in their planning,
and use terms to describe them like 'Banking or economic cycles' etc.....

I know you like a musical interlude Calz and many songs are social observations..
Cabaret set in 1930's Berlin just as the NASI were coming to power and we know
what happened then.

Cabaret- Money

I8P80A8vy9I

====================================================

I just clicked on Davids Headline page and the first article is.........'WTF' !!

" Cold war 2 anybody " ? or " Hot war 3 " ? Both options are in the PTB play book .

U.S. Will Station New Nuclear Weapons in Germany Against Russia

http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/u-s-will-station-new-nuclear-weapons-in-germany-against-russia/
===================================================
===================================================
===================================================

Post # 179 ....from Bills thread...

Re: Bill Ryan's new interview with REBEKAH ROTH, 11 September, 2015



The "why" of what was done is far more important than the details.
Assigning blame can also be a distraction from understanding what we need
to do to navigate past the ditch in the road ahead as comfortably as possible.

That is what I try to point out on some of my posts. For me its a given 9/11 was
an inside job. It would be great to find out how ? and prosecute the guilty. But as
with JFK when the crime is so big and in plain sight its not hard to get the public
to 'demand' justice. But it is hard to find the truth especially when all the main
organs of government , military , corporate media and even parts of the judiciary
are bought and paid for financially or by blackmail and in some cases ignorance
thru compartmentalisation. Like in the JFK case , when Oswald , Cuba and the
Soviets could be blamed in the mainstream straight away, and encouraged by
government. So the same with 9/11 with Bin Laden , Afghanistan and Iraq. All of
which had nothing to do the neo -con / zionist coup in America on 9/11.But were
blamed from the get go and many still believe they did it today.....

Simple facts like , why was no one sacked over the biggest failure in US military
history ? Quo Bono , who benefited ? follow the money ? The continuing war on
terror. The Zionist neo-con agenda being played out in front our eyes and much
more. All in the name of revenge for 9/11.

So why would any muslim faction or nation have planned this operation knowing
the 'wrath of the great Satan' in their eyes ? I don't think so.

History tells us time and time again that these 'false flag' events are organised by
darker forces behind the scenes of whatever government front or organisation they
are funding at any particular time.

Even Admiral Yamamoto when planning the Pearl Harbour attacks knew,
that waking the sleeping giant would unleash an mil industrial monster
on the world, that like a rogue Gene would be very difficult to put back
in its bottle......

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-fear-all-we-have-done-is-to-awaken-a-sleeping-giant-and-fill-him-with-a-terrible-resolve-isoroku-yamamoto-32-22-16.jpg

I know most on here know this but there are people looking in all the time..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of Japan I knew there was something I wanted to post
somewhere and most of these actions are linked. Japan has just passed
a bill allowing them to send combat troops abroad since WW11. This
is I think to help the US if there is a conflict involving North Korea or
China in the near future...


Japan readies for war? New military bill sparks fierce protests

By David Icke on 20th September 2015

LoYBXEVs1CQ

Published on 19 Sep 2015


Thousands have rallied in Japan against the controversial military bill, passed by
the parliament. Since now Japanese forces will be allowed to fight overseas. The
demonstrations show this is far from being universally welcomed.

READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/6rqt

This is also a throw back to imperial Japans secret police.....

Japan Moves To Totalitarian Surveillance Society

By David Icke on 21st September 2015

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/09/20/national/ready-not-government-will-soon-number/#.Vf_Hft9Vikq


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.kerrylabendz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/productimage-picture-those-who-cannot-remember-the-past-855.gif


https://missiongalacticfreedom.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/history_repeats____ih3_ggpht_com.jpg?w=540
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QGeSXkZBoWU/UPNIWO51ynI/AAAAAAAABPI/ODXrD6zwRxc/s1600/reichstag-fire.jpg

https://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/History+always+repeats+itself+unless+you+do+something+about+it_eca1a8_3797683.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85202-Bill-Ryan-s-new-interview-with-REBEKAH-ROTH-11-September-2015&p=1001331#post1001331

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Re: Goes back a couple hundred years ... read em and weep

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85414-Goes-back-a-couple-hundred-years-...-read-em-and-weep&p=1001930&viewfull=1#post1001930

This might of been quoted in the original vid , but I have listened
to Jaque Vallee on C2C , posted several thread updates and am listening
to Jim Marrs talk about 'remote viewing' following on from the Vallee int...
( I feel a thread coming on )..LOL

Anyway I'm using this as a thread bump ! ...Who said only women can
multi task ? ...LOL. ( though they probably do it better) !!

http://americanfreedomunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1-banksters-Napoleon-quote.jpg

And who thought that 70's/80's glam rock band ABBA were such philosophers ...

3FsVeMz1F5c

I liked ABBA as a kid and had ABBAS greatest hits and several singles, seems
a long time ago now....

Abba - Money, Money, Money

ETxmCCsMoD0

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Re: We have been given a few months: Paul Hellyer, ex Defence Minister of Canada

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83476-We-have-been-given-a-few-months-Paul-Hellyer-ex-Defence-Minister-of-Canada&p=976932&viewfull=1#post976932


A couple of articles from Davids headline page as I'm looking thru todays posts. We
know governments lie and cover up under national security and all sorts of things
go on. Some legitimate , others dubious as we are all now suspect when we hear
a 'drill' is going on. We all want to feel safe but to use a modern term, humanity
has been 'hacked' for along time , maybe when we enter these physical suits from
non -physical ? that's a whole another subject...LOL

Chemtrails , vaccines , GM foods , Big Broth, survailance, Bank Debt. All seem to
be the latest in a long line of keeping the public dumbed down and in a sort of
modern serfdom , where the bulk of us are now debt slaves from cradle to grave .
Even if we are given the illusion thru state education and better standard of living
than our ancestors in many ways . We are still kept in a state of constant fear and
servitude and things have got worse but as Paul Helyer says you can connect the
dots from 1945 to now quite easily when you know how.

I know this does not apply to everyone but certainly a high percentage.Virtually all
countries have skeletons in the closet , but we are always told by the media , over
whatever scandal or tragedy has happened.To look to the future , we must never
let it happen again etc..But if you read history you soon find out in the immortal
words of ABBA 'History is always repeating itself.

Sorry about last sentence could not help myself and really wanted to
post the song...LOL ...( I'm listening to it now )


Waterloo ...ironically it was the 200th anniversary of the battle in June 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n9nMKZSN2c



==========================================



warfare tests on London Tube passengers in 1960s during Cold War

By ickonic on 10th July 2015 History Rewritten, Illuminati Criminals, Medical/Health

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif


How British government carried out secret biological warfare tests on
London Tube passengers in 1960s during Cold War
New research suggests Britons were exposed to chemical tests
Biological warfare tests apparently more widespread than once thought
Professor Ulf Schmidt said there were secret trials on the Tube in 1964
'Mock' chemical warfare tests on thousands of Britons from 1953 to 1964

By Emma Glanfield for MailOnline

Published: 10:14, 9 July 2015 | Updated: 12:33, 9 July 2015

‘Secret biological warfare tests were carried out on Tube passengers by the British
government during the Cold War to a greater extent than previously thought,according
to new research.

Hundreds of thousands of Britons were subjected to ‘mock’ biological and chemical warfare
attacks in more than 750 secret operations, with 4,600kg of chemical zinc cadmium sulphide
dispersed from ships, aircraft and lorries between 1953 and 1964.

Professor Ulf Schmidt, a leading academic of modern history at the University of Kent, has
also discovered that passengers on London’s Underground were subjected to chemical exposure
during secret trials on the Tube.’


http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2A5D837900000578-0-image-a-2_1436430425190-1.jpg

Hundreds of thousands of Britons were subjected to 'mock' biological and chemical warfare tests
in 750 secret operations, including a secret operation on the London Underground network during
May 1964 (above)

Secret tests on the Tube saw large quantities of the bacteria Bacillus globigii released on the
Underground system in May 1964 by scientists from the government's military research base a
t Porton Down in Wiltshire


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/09/09/2A5D838500000578-0-image-m-4_1436430471991.jpg
The secret operation, carried out by scientists from the government's controversial military research base at Porton
Down in Wiltshire, saw large quantities of the bacteria Bacillus globigii released on the Underground system in May 1964.

Scientists were apparently trying to discover whether 'long distance travel of aerosols' on London's transport network
'was due to transportation within trains' or through the air ventilation systems, according to The Independent.

Bacillus globigii was not considered harmful at the time, but research over the last decade has revealed it is capable
of causing food poisoning, fevers and septicemia.

Read more: How British government carried out secret biological warfare tests on London
Tube passengers in 1960s during Cold War


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3154555/How-British-government-carried-secret-biological-warfare-tests-London-Tube-passengers-1960s-Cold-War.html#ixzz3fUJ1AUOW
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


===================================================================
===================================================================


CIA Secret Wars Killed Six Million People. Government Coversup Attacks on Third World Nations

By ickonic on 10th July 2015

-7eBPO_1h0Y

[Selkie]

Just to be clear, am not advocating attacking the government.

[risveglio]

"but they are so attached to guns to feel ''safe'' that it's like trying to take food from them....


I must raise the :bs: flag to [the quoted part of] that statement.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006616&viewfull=1#post1006616

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006053&viewfull=1#post1006053

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005646&viewfull=1#post1005646

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005648&viewfull=1#post1005648

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005706&viewfull=1#post1005706

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005508&viewfull=1#post1005508

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005429&viewfull=1#post1005429

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1005616&viewfull=1#post1005616

Is that so? it feels like to only mention gun control scares people...
Anyone here is a Gun enthusiast? hehe

Since my post was listed, I'll answer. I actually do not own a gun. I just believe in freedom and since I have many relatives that are responsible gun owners and the stats don't lie, I support gun rights. It is true that I have many relatives that have used a gun to defend themselves from crime. My two cousins, both most definitely would have been raped or killed. Another relative stopped a robbery in his store by having a gun when the robbers broke in, one of the robbers cut himself which led to the arrest of him and his partner, which had robbed 10 stores in the area.

For me it is just common sense. How would you stop gun ownership? For Pete's sake you can 3D print a gun. To me thinking more laws on guns would do good is just silly, It's like the drug war, it has just made things worse. Any additional laws on guns will just make things worse. And the stats are on the gun owner's side.

1. What percent of deaths are homicides? ANSWER: 0.6%
2. What percent of homicides are from mass shootings? ANSWER: 0.2%
3. Is the rate of firearm violence increasing or decreasing? ANSWER: The rate of firearm homicides is down 49% since 1993.
4. Do countries with more firearms also have more homicides? ANSWER: No. In fact, countries with more firearms tend to have fewer homicides.

http://www.unodc.org/gsh/en/data.html
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/public…/by-type/yearbook.html
http://crimeresearch.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/A-Yearbook/2007/en/Small-Arms-Survey-2007-Chapter-02-annexe-4-EN.pdf

But I don't think the majority of people that want stricter gun laws care about facts.

[ThePythonicCow]

I am wondering if perhaps the biggest, baddest, drug running, murdering, lying, thieving, torturing, raping, child molesting, nation destroying, crime "family" on the planet, and in some ways in recorded human history, is making a big deal of whether its servants (aka citizens) can be allowed to keep a few pins and needles, and so amplifying, if not creating out of whole cloth, repeated stories, year after year, in the world wide "news" media over which they have substantial control, of how violent the servants are to each other with their pins and needles ... in order to distract from their own vastly worse crimes.

Meanwhile, the servants (aka American citizens) of this crime family thus become tainted with the extreme inhumanity of the crime family bosses, while the crime family continues to bomb and otherwise in so many ways destroy the planet, and while we debate whether servants of that family are violence prone due to a few, often concocted, "mass" murders of handfuls of people.

From The Daily KOS (http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/03/1199001/-Jeb-Bush-Oliver-North-and-the-Murder-of-CIA-Drug-Smuggler-Barry-Seal-in-1986):


Sarah McLendon: "What will the people do if they ever find out the truth about Iraq-gate and Iran contra?"
George Herbert Walker Bush: “Sarah, if the American people ever find out what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.”
So far, the bombing by American forces of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Afghanistan a couple of days ago has received only one brief mention on this Avalon forum, buried within a longer post by Rocky_Shorz (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=1006474&viewfull=1#post1006474), of an article by (the often disparaged around here) Sorcha Faal .

... and that Afghan hospital is just the tiniest tip of an iceberg of millions and millions murdered and hundreds of millions of lives destroyed ... but it happened to be the death of sympathetic Americans, so gets more press coverage.

[Selkie]

I am wondering if perhaps the biggest, baddest, drug running, murdering, lying, thieving, torturing, raping, child molesting, nation destroying, crime "family" on the planet, and in some ways in recorded human history, is making a big deal of whether its servants (aka citizens) can be allowed to keep a few pins and needles, and so amplifying, if not creating out of whole cloth, repeated stories, year after year, in the world wide "news" media over which they have substantial control, of how violent the servants are to each other with their pins and needles ... in order to distract from their own vastly worse crimes.

Meanwhile, the servants (aka American citizens) of this crime family thus become tainted with the extreme inhumanity of the crime family bosses, while the crime family continues to bomb and otherwise in so many ways destroy the planet, and while we debate whether servants of that family are violence prone due to a few, often concocted, "mass" murders of handfuls of people.

From The Daily KOS (http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/03/1199001/-Jeb-Bush-Oliver-North-and-the-Murder-of-CIA-Drug-Smuggler-Barry-Seal-in-1986):


Sarah McLendon: "What will the people do if they ever find out the truth about Iraq-gate and Iran contra?"
George Herbert Walker Bush: “Sarah, if the American people ever find out what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.”
So far, the bombing by American forces of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Afghanistan a couple of days ago has received only one brief mention on this Avalon forum, buried within a longer post by Rocky_Shorz (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=1006474&viewfull=1#post1006474), of an article by (the often disparaged around here) Sorcha Faal .

... and that Afghan hospital is just the tiniest tip of an iceberg of millions and millions murdered and hundreds of millions of lives destroyed ... but it happened to be the death of sympathetic Americans, so gets more press coverage.

Thank you, Paul. Thank you...thank you...thank you. :clapping: :bearhug: :heart:

Sometimes, one is so busy holding the line that it is all one can do.

[risveglio]

I am wondering if perhaps the biggest, baddest, drug running, murdering, lying, thieving, torturing, raping, child molesting, nation destroying, crime "family" on the planet, and in some ways in recorded human history, is making a big deal of whether its servants (aka citizens) can be allowed to keep a few pins and needles, and so amplifying, if not creating out of whole cloth, repeated stories, year after year, in the world wide "news" media over which they have substantial control, of how violent the servants are to each other with their pins and needles ... in order to distract from their own vastly worse crimes.

Meanwhile, the servants (aka American citizens) of this crime family thus become tainted with the extreme inhumanity of the crime family bosses, while the crime family continues to bomb and otherwise in so many ways destroy the planet, and while we debate whether servants of that family are violence prone due to a few, often concocted, "mass" murders of handfuls of people.

From The Daily KOS (http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/03/1199001/-Jeb-Bush-Oliver-North-and-the-Murder-of-CIA-Drug-Smuggler-Barry-Seal-in-1986):


Sarah McLendon: "What will the people do if they ever find out the truth about Iraq-gate and Iran contra?"
George Herbert Walker Bush: “Sarah, if the American people ever find out what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.”
So far, the bombing by American forces of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Afghanistan a couple of days ago has received only one brief mention on this Avalon forum, buried within a longer post by Rocky_Shorz (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=1006474&viewfull=1#post1006474), of an article by (the often disparaged around here) Sorcha Faal .

... and that Afghan hospital is just the tiniest tip of an iceberg of millions and millions murdered and hundreds of millions of lives destroyed ... but it happened to be the death of sympathetic Americans, so gets more press coverage.

I also posted about the bombings in this post. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006024&viewfull=1#post1006024

Also think this is a great article that fits this current topic.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/425004/mass-shootings-gun-ownership-common-sense-fallacy

[ThePythonicCow]

I also posted about the bombings in this post. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1006024&viewfull=1#post1006024
Ah - good - thanks.

[Cidersomerset]

So far, the bombing by American forces of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in
Afghanistan a couple of days ago has received only one brief mention on this Avalon forum,
buried within a longer post by Rocky_Shorz, of an article by (the often disparaged around here) Sorcha Faal .

It was mentioned on the WW111 thread I think ? .....Latest reports...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.88.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png


Kunduz: US says Afghans requested air strike that hit MSF clinic

4 hours ago.... From the section Asia

xjDjORKXtNc

Afghan forces called in the air strike that hit a Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF)
clinic in Kunduz, killing 22 people, a US general says.Gen John Campbell admitted
that no US forces had been under fire at the time, reversing an earlier statement.
MSF says Afghan attempts to justify the strike amount to "an admission of a war
crime".Afghan forces backed by the US have retaken much of Kunduz, which was
overrun by the Taliban last week.

Read More....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34447792

===================================================
===================================================

Suspected US airstrike hits hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan

By David Icke on 3rd October 2015 War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2D092DAF00000578-3258440-image-a-6_1443858091359.jpg

========================================

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif

'Tragic, inexcusable, and possibly even criminal': UN chief says US
airstrike on Doctors Without Borders hospital in Afghanistan could
be a war crime as death toll rises to 22 including 12 medics
Médecins Sans Frontières said 12 medics and ten patients were killed
Three children are among the dead, with 37 people seriously injured
MSF says bombing continued for 30 minutes after U.S. military was
informed the hospital had been hit
'Patients burned to death in their beds,' MSF chiefs on the ground say
Aid organization insists it gave U.S. and Afghan authorities exact
location of the hospital three days before the strike
UN Human Rights chief calls for an investigation, saying bombing may
have been a war crime
Government spokesman says Taliban fighters were in hospital compound,
using it 'as a shield' before the bombing

By Ollie Gillman and Christopher Brennan For Dailymail.com and Imogen Calderwood For Mailonline

Published: 06:00, 3 October 2015 | Updated: 18:14, 4 October 2015

‘A hospital in the Afghan city of Kunduz has been hit and
partially destroyed in an overnight “aerial attack” that
killed at least three Medecins Sans Frontieres staff. NATO
has admitted a US airstrike may have caused accidental
“collateral damage.”’

Read more: Suspected US airstrike hits hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3258440/US-airstrike-killed-three-Doctors-Without-Borders-staffers-Afghanistan.html#ixzz3njGGoret
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

===========================================
===========================================
===========================================

RT NEWS......


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.10/original/56102427c46188f1658b45c7.jpg
Afghan MSF medical personnel treat civilians injured following an offensive
against Taliban militants by Afghan and coalition forces at the MSF hospital
in Kunduz. © MSF / AFP


RAW Kunduz MSF hospital atrocity aftermath - bombed for an hour by NATO
2yYHCPJOtLc

Published on 3 Oct 2015


A hospital in the Afghan city of Kunduz has been hit and partially destroyed
in an overnight 'aerial attack' that killed at least nine Medecins Sans
Frontieres staff. NATO has admitted a US airstrike may have caused
accidental 'collateral damage.' FOLLOW LIVE UPDATES: http://on.rt.com/6szb

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/2015/10/04/

[Selkie]

Psychopaths are well-known to turn very, very nasty when their victims/captives start to stand up for themselves.

And since reality is fractal, this applies from the personal to the international...or maybe even the inter-dimensional...levels.

I hate bullies, especially when they are masquerading in the guise of do-gooders!

[Selkie]

For any who died so that the psychopathic, murderous "elite" could extend their reach just a little bit further,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l475gwnuV9k

[Michelle Marie]

I thought the president's speech was a good one. I found myself nodding and agreeing the whole way.

I think we all have to take off our conspiracy hats for a minute. Sometimes people do crazy things without the aid of mkultra. Having access to all these guns is utter insanity. I wouldn't trust myself with one, let alone half the country.

If I hear one more person say that asinine line ...'guns don't kill people, people kill people', I may actually get a gun myself and shoot you. These are the same people that say we actually need more guns...to keep people safe. Somewhere Orwell is turning over in his grave..Wishing he thought of that line.

Mass shootings. Right. The only reason they're "mass" is due to the nature of the gun. You can stand back and spray dozens of bullets into a crowd and kill many many people. It's easy and convenient...And economical, as far as time and space are concerned. It's the only way these people can kill a large amount of people in a small period of time..or anyone at all for that matter!

Notice there's never any "mass stabbings"...or anything of that nature. Because it's impossible to run around stabbing 20 people in a small room without everyone a)scattering or b)gang tackling the guy.

Make no mistake: GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Especially here in the wild wide west

I don't have a conspiracy hat on, but I do live in S. ORegon -- nearby.

I know more things that go on around here than what is covered in the news. I have personal experience teaching in public schools and at a community college very close to this one.

When we were doing lockdown drills at one location, a teacher asked "how do we know if it's real? " the answer was: "you don't. Just do what we say." We were conditioned with a horrible school takeover video as well.

I do not work at any public education institution any longer. They are not safe.

They (media) didn't mention the national guard coming in to harass teachers during a strike (2009) as far as I know. But those who were there know. I had quit by then, but was called in to sub just after the strike.

Forget the conspiracy hat... We are armed with the truth. The only arms I need.

Love through all,
MM

[Michelle Marie]

In the late 1800's, Wovoka, a spiritual leader, rallied Native American Nations under a non-violent theme called the Ghost Dance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance). Much like what many of the members are advocating, here on this thread, the Ghost Dance was a blending of spiritually with a non-violent theme.

History tells us how the expanding wave of Western Civilization solved the "Ghost Dance Problem" with a near-total inhalation of the Native American Populating led by the likes of General George Custer. This is a template that can be recounted throughout the history of Human Civilization, far into antiquity.

Chief Crazy Horse, one of my personal heroes, made a political statement at the Little Bighorn. Crazy Horse's resistance did little to stop the wave of Western expansion, and it led to his death at the hands of the U.S. Calvary.

With his way of life rapped from his people, what little other choice did he have?

Different times.... similar circumstances.

In other words, the Ghost Dance didn't work too well :(

I suspect the Indians would have been massacred regardless---the land etc was required by the white man.
Times are different now---consciousness is rising --you only have to look at the interest in spiritual books and authors--millions of readers.
You become what you imbibe regularly--space repetition.

Eckhart Tolle was asked about consciousness and that it seemed that things were getting worse. His response was that the "worse" was much more noisy/noticeable whilst the improvement was quietly accelerating and after a period of chaos there will be a New Earth as in a much raised consciousness.
Not airy fairy New age but far reaching change.

The enlightenment thread in the spiritual section gets almost three thousand visits a week. every week, that says some thing.

Honestly to my mind the only solution is a raised consciousness.
The Buddha taught this as the removal of misery.
We are ignorant of our true nature.
Once the true nature is realised by enough people the world will change--it has no option but to.

Chris

Yeah, consciousness is rising on a mass scale! Same souls, new power. "We're baaaaaack!"

Claiming Victory!

Love always,
MM

[Arcturian108]

There is at least one scenario in which if the general population was still armed, we could be a threat to the controllers - and that is if they are hiding underground, and the rest of us are struggling to stay alive on the surface. They might have little control over surface phenomena, and thus when they emerge from their caves, and bunkers they might be at our mercy - if we are still armed.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet in this thread, and would think others have foreseen this scenario considering that we have known for years about all their underground activity and building.

[awakeningmom]

I think there's another reason why the PTB would be concerned about gun ownership and thus are pushing hard to take all the guns away now. Yes, I agree that armed Americans trying to overthrow the government/military in open rebellion would likely be crushed in a nanosecond. No doubt "they" already have weapons and technology we can only imagine. So any overthrow of the PTB by armed rebellion is highly unlikely -- unless the military were to suddenly side with the People instead of the PTB.

However, as the corruption of our leaders becomes more and more in our face, and more and more people are waking up to what they've done to us, to this planet, to our future, I think the PTB fears that there might still be a few sharp-shooters or underground vigilante warriors among the People, who would be angry enough to take out at least a few of them before they can crush any larger movement and set themselves up somewhere far away from the rest of us (whether in DUMBS or in some kind of Elysium-type space station). Specifically, maybe they fear that their own "lone gunman" scenarios might be turned against some of them, instead of the innocents they choose for these ever increasing mass sacrifices.

I am not advocating this type of underground vigilante scenario at all. I too hope and declare my intent for a nonviolent solution to the tyranny and darkness we face. But this might be one of the reasons why they're making such a big push to take away all the guns NOW? Everything they've done in secret is coming to the surface in a big way now.

[gripreaper]

Boy this discussion has gotten lively in the last few pages, and here is my takeaway:

There are two types of psychopaths, the kind Selkie refers to, who have no humanity and never did or will. Where they came from and whats missing in their DNA and their cellular structure is unclear to me. I do recognize their existence and I do recognize the nature of this type of psychopath and their ability to rise to the top of the global power pyramid, and I do recognize the existence of a small group of them controlling the entire planets resources as well as the narrative fed into the mass consciousness.

The other type of psychopath I am referring to is the environmentally induced individual who lacked nurture during gestation, birth and infancy, and had the ability to feel, but this ability was severed from them and they are no longer humane.

I would be interested in further discussions about the former, as we have gone so far as to postulate that these beings are alien to this planet and are interlopers in our evolution and have done hybridizations with the indigenous of this planet, and have agendas which are against humanity. This we can all agree on, I think.

Now, let’s look at some facts. There are over 300 million guns in America, and that is registered firearms. With unregistered firearms, it would not be a stretch to say that there is a firearm for every man, woman and child in America. This “culture” of gun ownership, in my estimation, apart from personal safety and hunting, is to stand against tyranny. Of course any armed citizen centric opposition against the globalists or the US government will fail, considering the sophisticated technology available to these tyrants.

Yet, as has also been postulated here in this thread, we need an awakening in the mass consciousness, and I think this gun issue may just be that catalyst for such an awakening, because most Americans see the right to bear arms “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” as sacrosanct and not up for discussion, under any circumstances, and are willing to draw a line in the sand and say “That is enough”.

So, on the bright side, while we debate the vicissitudes of armor and the poignant merits thereof on both sides of the debate, let us be cognizant of the opportunity we have been presented here. Most people are realizing that they cannot trust their government, and are disgusted with the loss of liberties we have been facing. Talk to any baby boomer and their lives are a microcosm of going from Camelot (we used to call the time before Kennedy was shot as Camelot) and the loss of freedoms and liberties since. 9-11, is staggering.

Most do not know that the UNITED STATES is a bankrupt corporation, in receivership to the globalist psychopathic banksters, and I have been trying to point this out here for years. Many are waking up to the fact that our electoral paradigm is totally staged and that we have a one party system, and both the democrats and the republicans are just republocrats and are chosen by the globalists and that our elections are just carnival freak shows. Look at the current milieu of candidates being paraded in front of us now, and the memes of consciousness being perpetrated on us. Most abhor the thought of another Clinton or Bush in the white house.

So, what is really happening? As these mass shootings increase in frequency, and the alt media tears them apart and exposes the false flag nature of them, those whose agenda it is to continue them to steer mass consciousness towards a more docile and lethargic populace who is willing to remain within the confines of slavery, and not look at the truth, but remain distracted and scared, are having to up their game.

This shooting in Southern Oregon has more of a crazy lone gunman feel to it, where Sandy Hook obviously did not. Those who perpetuate the breakdown of the family unit, the drugging of our children, and the perpetuation of violence, are cleaning up their game as well, whether this incident was an engineered false flag or a true crazed lone gunman scenario, the roots of the problem still stem from the same agenda. I don’t want to debate that part of it.

What is clear to me is that these psychopaths DO NOT want us to wake up and to be exposed. They want to remain in the shadows and to continue their agendas of divide and conquer, and their Hegelian dialectics of “problem, reaction, solution”. Is the problem really too much guns? It doesn’t seem so. Every time an incident like this occurs, gun and ammo sales go through the roof, and just as soon as sales slow down, another incident occurs. One could postulate that they don’t really want to take our guns away, but they really want to arm all of us to the teeth! I mean, that IS what is happening, right?

So, what’s the problem? We’re waking up. What’s the reaction? Well, were pissed off and very emotional about our children being shot in broad daylight while at school. NO ONE of us empaths likes that, no matter where we stand on the whole gun debate. This is one area where we are totally united. The solution? Can we unite as one mass consciousness and come up with a way to awaken more people and help them understand the nature of this country and our government?

Can we teach them that there is no representative government and that we are run by the psychopathic globalists like a corporation, by executive order from the creditors who are the actual board of directors, and that the president and the congress and the Supreme Court are just agents, figureheads with NO POWER at all, but they follow the rules and do as they are told? How do we get this across?

Once more people understand that we are all slaves and that the fiat system of currency is debt based and requires the continued raping and pillaging of planet earths resources in order to keep the ponzi scheme going, and it requires the imperialistic war mongering of nations in order to continue, and that we are all complacent and support this system, will we be willing to forfeit our ill gotten gains from building the behemoth monster the Military Industrial Complex?

Will we be able to lay down our religious dogmas and realize that we are already Christed beings and the power of the human spirit is stronger than any weapons, and come together and generate the energy to shift the physical phenomenon in the matrix, uprooting the hologram of the divisive war paradigm and create the future we want? Are we sick and tired of being sick and tired of war yet?

It would seem not. Within 25 years we are all going to be speaking Arabic as the world demographic is rapidly shifting towards Muslim and away from the hegemony of the western culture. The balance of power cannot rest in any one country or segment of society as far as the globalists are concerned, and that is why they are tearing America down. The slaves need to be leveled out to the lowest common denominator.

We also need to recognize that the notion that we are “nations” is a fallacy, and that national sovereignty was lost during this century, and that power and control HAS been centralized and is NOT something that is coming down the pike, but is already here. All that is happening is that the chess pieces are being shifted around to balance out the power, and to attempt to keep consciousness down.

What is the ultimate solution for mankind? Keep up the awakening and use the catalysts to awaken more people and expose the lie. We need a Renaissance, but first we have to quit drinking the kool aid (Fluoride), eating their GMO foods, breathing the toxic metals in the air, and “thinking” we can negotiate with psychopaths! We can only stop supporting the psychopathic paradigm and step into our own power. How we do that is still up for debate.

[East Sun]

I have heard a number of times that when a new president takes office very soon he gets a phone call and is told something to the effect that,
"You are not the boss, understand that."

Does he ever get to know who the boss really is?
I believe that he does inadvertently. That boss is more advanced than anyone or he himself is.

No, not God but one of the gods that will always call the shots.

When the time comes that we are micro-chipped it will be too late.

We have no other choice but stand up to superior odds, intellectually, and physically or become slaves.

We need a plan. I am serious. We Need a plan and we need it now.
Smarter and younger people than me need to get on this.

How do we tell/convince billions of people that we are in serious trouble.............

[M-Albion-3D]

Boy this discussion has gotten lively in the last few pages, and here is my takeaway:

There are two types of psychopaths,

...
What is the ultimate solution for mankind? Keep up the awakening and use the catalysts to awaken more people and expose the lie. We need a Renaissance, but first we have to quit drinking the kool aid (Fluoride), eating their GMO foods, breathing the toxic metals in the air, and “thinking” we can negotiate with psychopaths! We can only stop supporting the psychopathic paradigm and step into our own power. How we do that is still up for debate.

I think it's pretty obvious by now that these recent shootings over the past two years or so, are complex undertakings evidently contrived in Hegalian Dialetic architecture. Interestingly, both here and abroad, (Charlie Hebdo, Paris train etc) any perceivable gun control in those host European nations is negligible due to the standing laws on firearms. Nonetheless, the sordid details of these "European events" still manage to make major headlines here in the US resulting in the same "knee jerk" reactions with gun owners and more importantly, "potential gun owners"

And what is that "knee jerk" result? Patently, a noticeable increase in the purchase of hand guns and corresponding ammunition throughout the nation! Doesn't that seem a little odd?

So then, the perpetrators of these complex and risky staged events, go to all the trouble to attempt to achieve a result that would somehow result in allowing the administration to circumvent the second amendment (which, let's face it, will be near dam impossible) knowing full well, that the "actual result" would in fact, produce the complete opposite!

I am keenly aware that our government leaves much to be desired with respect to intelligible activity but they aren't stooopid! Each and every time an event is enacted....bingo, up go the sales! Bottom line is...this IS the result, no if's, but's or and's about it.

So, let's just say for a moment, there is a "need" to increase gun ownership in the US for some unknown spooky reason. How could the administration achieve this? Let me see now...how about this.....Mr. Obama goes on TV and say's: "My fellow Americans, it has come to our attention, that it would be to the best interest that all American citizens, should arm yourselves on a mass scale". NOT A CHANCE right and of course, for obvious reasons.

But.....threaten the second amendment....Whoa! VERY DIFFERENT, You could say; "the ultimate reverse phycology".

If this were the case, what on Earth would cause a "need" such as the result we have surely experienced?

As a foot note, as I am sure everyone is aware of the fact that, homicides by gunshot have plummeted sharply in the past 20 years by a whopping 49%!! So no real incentive there and, as so many have eluded to here, there's simply zero competition if the citizens were faced with overwhelming forces of the US armed forces and/or police force, that altercation would be over in days.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide/

So why the need to increase arms ownership if indeed this seems to be the case? Is there something coming down the pike, something completely and utterly unmentionable which all American citizens could be faced or indeed "forced" to fend off? Hmmm....

Peace...
M-AL

[Cidersomerset]

This is a pretty long article to big to Copy & paste. Some
of the info and clips have already been posted and
speculated on. This is one of the first to piece together
their interpretation of events thru 'alternate eyes' and
put it in a printed article. 21 century wire are good
researchers. Whether you agree or not ? its still an
interesting article imo.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Daily Shooter: Inter-Agency Drill, Lone Gunman
and ‘USB Manifesto’ at Oregon Campus Shooting

By David Icke on 6th October 2015
Political Manipulation, Problem-Reaction-Solution

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/themes/magazine/images/21-LOGO-230x115.png

DAILY SHOOTER: Inter-Agency Drill, Lone Gunman
and ‘USB Manifesto’ at Oregon Campus Shooting

October 6, 2015 By Shawn Helton 1 Comment

Shawn Helton
21st Century Wire


‘Another day, another Daily Shooter. Once again,
we see evidence of another multi-agency drill held
prior the event, as well as a number of other a
number of bizarre anomalies attached to this heavily
dramatized mass-shooting said to have occurred at
Umpqua Community College, near Roseburg, Oregon.’

Read more: Daily Shooter: Inter-Agency Drill, Lone
Gunman and ‘USB Manifesto’ at Oregon Campus Shooting

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/10/06/daily-shooter-evidence-of-multi-agency-drill-and-lone-gunman-to-propagandized-oregon-campus-shooting/