Anomalies in The Ruiner's material

[Bill Ryan]

.
Dear All,

I'll start this by copying over a post I made on this thread a few hours ago (post #269, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85125-Shane-The-Ruiner-s-interview-with-Kerry-Cassidy-8-Sept-2015&p=1008172&viewfull=1#post1008172)):

Shane/The Ruiner's interview with Kerry Cassidy, 8 Sept 2015 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85125-Shane-The-Ruiner-s-interview-with-Kerry-Cassidy-8-Sept-2015)

I had written:


Isn't Bill scheduled to interview Shane soon? Or has something gone awry?


I don't think Shane would any more consent to an interview (but, to be quite fair, I don't know this for sure).

Over the last week or so, there's been an extensive, detailed written dialog with Shane in which many questions were asked, and many answers were given.

The entire exchange was totally civilized, but was also focused on a number of specific unanswered questions that had not been asked by other interviewers. I wanted to do this in private, rather than 'ambush' Shane on audio (or maybe to be thought to be doing so).

It seemed only fair, because I was troubled: I have always liked him — he is an archetypal, super-nice person — but his story was problematic on several important counts. I urged Shane to be very straight about some things, where we had felt he had not been.

Shane responded in an exemplary way throughout, as one might expect, in terms of his consistent demeanor and courtesy. But reassurance was not forthcoming.

As a result of the answers given, we (the Avalon mods) are unanimous that we cannot any more support Shane's story. As Paul said above, there's more to say about all this (and of course, Shane is most welcome to say what he wishes, and we encourage that), but there's lots of detail involved, and it would take quite some time to lay out in the most understandable way.

Lest this be used by Corey Goode as ammunition to fire at Shane (which I fully expect, but don't actually want to happen), I want to state that it's my very strong opinion that Corey is a pathological liar (or, at best, has been grossly interfered with), and his story, too — a fair amount of which he got from Shane in the first place — is unreliable at best and sheer, deceitful fabrication or plagiarism at worst.

An overarching topic of concern here is that there's reason to believe that there may be a gross strategic manipulation taking place of the alternative community, maybe a previously experimental program now gone operational. Some of those involved, being used as assets, may not even know about it. I'd VERY much like to think that Shane was in the latter category. But there's something mighty strange going on here. If things don't 'feel right' — then this paragraph may supply clues.

I'd like to find ways of discussing this. All of this almost certainly needs its own thread, which of course simple to do if that's the best way to discuss all this.


All this needs more data and clarification. This is what this thread is for.

Back on 28 September, two weeks ago, I started a behind-the-scenes (moderators-only) thread, with the same title as this one. That thread has run to 213 posts. This is the first one.

It presents a concern that (in transparency) it's helpful to share here. Then, we can gradually walk you through our journey of research, and, a few days ago, detailed questions posed to Shane in writing.




~~~~~~~~~


Hi, Folks:

As you know, I've been exchanging some information with one or two of you regarding concerns with The Ruiner's material, and I confess I've been becoming more and more doubtful about its provenance. I'd like to do a bit of a data dump here, so we're all looking at the same page (if we want to! :) ).

First, here are two documents that may be useful to others... they're Word docs, so they can be searched with some sophistication:

Here's Shane's complete blog:
http://projectavalon.net/The_Ruiners_blog_complete.doc

And here are the two 'Cassandra letters':
http://projectavalon.net/Cassandra_letters.doc

Now, it'd been fairly clear to me immediately that the Cassandra letters could not have written by some wise old near-immortal soul. They looked and felt they'd been written by a young, contemporary person. Quite a few people have said the same thing, of course.

I'm now 95% sure they were written by Shane himself. Below is a linguistic fingerprint analysis. There are quite a few significant matches.

If so, this doesn't look good, because it means that Shane, despite his very pleasant, ever-courteous and consistent demeanor, has been caught in a lie. And if so, we need to know that.

In the Cassandra letters, which together make a short document, there are the following 'fingerprints'. These can easily be seen.

1) Here's an example of two dots, with no space:



"the dark prince has no teeth and there is you..so neither of us will have what we have wanted"
In The Ruiner's blog, there are


0 instances of him writing "xxx..xxx"
5 instances of him writing "xxx.. xxx"
0 instances of him writing "xxx... xxx"

In Shane's Skype messages to Corey, there are also MANY instances of these rather unusual double-dots. This does appear to be a habitual Shane 'fingerprint'.

2) Cassandra writes:



"As you have told me I do not have a heart many times you will understand I could not face you, I didn’t have the heart! ( haha)"
In Shane's blog (4 August), he also writes "haha" here:



"To the email-er: Hey you asked for this! haha"
And in his Skype chat with Corey, Shane writes



"It all has to happen sooner or later.. why not now? Haha"
and
"Our girls could hang out while we go on trips haha"
3) Cassandra signs off a little unusually, with a semi-colon, here:



"Until we meet again;"
Not many young writers use semi-colons these days. But Shane does. In his blog, there are 7 of them. Not many... but still 7.

There are a few more possible indicators, but those others are more indistinct. In my personal opinion, the combination of the above is a bit of a smoking gun. It's not a slam-dunk, but I think it's close.

There's more that adds to the size of the red flag. In his important post here, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85125-Shane-The-Ruiner-s-interview-with-Kerry-Cassidy-8-Sept-2015&p=1001282&viewfull=1#post1001282) Shane says:
There is this funny misconception that the info I share comes from the Illuminati.

The "intended audience" of the blog is the illuminati. Which means I am talking to the Illuminati members, not to the public.
As best I know, that was the first time Shane stated on record that all this extraordinary information did NOT come from the Illuminati (and was therefore NOT 'inside information' that he'd been briefed on or somehow learned from them) — but was from different sources.

Although this is not in his blog or either of his two interviews, Shane has stated that (paraphrase) he has memory of being Anu's favorite son, and he was trained to be a killing machine.

As a result, he said, he was banished to a desolate planet that contained no sentient beings, and stayed there for thousands of years (or maybe eons). Through sheer will, he broke free and was able to incarnate into the body of a human on earth who had been disposed of. His next incarnation on earth is now Shane, and he has full memory.

This is important, because Shane has NEVER said anything like that on record. What this seems to mean is that at least quite a lot of his data (maybe most of his data) comes from his subjective personal past-life recall.

And while that's to be noted (I have subjective past-life recall, too!), it can be messed with, totally. These things can EASILY be implanted overlays. There's no way to investigate that unless one consults a very experienced past-life practitioner. There's nothing to indicate that Shane has ever done that.

There are [apparent] positives in all this tangle. They need to be noted for balance.

1) Note his two PMs to me on 6 and 13 Sept 2013 (I can copy those here later), fwded to the mods, in which Shane seems to be very genuinely wanting to consult me about a strange, very real, experience he had regarding Giants.

The whole topic of Giants in stasis only resurfaced after that over a year later, when Corey suddenly mentioned them in his then unpublished second interview with Christine (recorded 23 Nov 2014).

(Corey also mentions them, for the first time, in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66018-A-major-new-interview-with-a-Project-Avalon-Whistleblower--Questions-for-GoodETxSG-&p=906446&viewfull=1#post906446), dated 27 Nov 2014, four days after his interview.)

The strong inference from this timing is that Corey got all that from Shane, and then presented the information as his own. We do know that Shane had been in backchannel touch with Corey during the period before his second interview, when Corey started to embellish his story.

2) Another positive indicator (apparently) is that Shane has stated on record (I believe) that his personal invitation to attend a meeting with Anu, in the large meeting room, was a physical event. He has said that.

That doesn't mean it's true, but he's stated that. At least that is helpful, because in much of his other reported information, there is no indication at all of its provenance. (i.e. where on earth — or elsewhere! — it all comes from.)

3) A further 'positive' is that he told me in our long text Skype chat that he knew people personally who were in or connected with the Secret Space Program.

So... he has stated the provenance of SOME of his information. Whether true or not, it's useful he's stated that. (That is the sense in which I mean 'positive'.)

*****

[B]Here's my hypothesis so far. This is subject to change all the time, but it's how I see it at this time of writing, 28 September:



Shane believes everything, or almost everything, he's saying. He's not a deceptive person by nature.



He sincerely believed he had good background, big-picture-contextual information that he wanted to share with 'his intended audience', which was 100 or so disillusioned and breakaway members of the Illuminati. I'm sure those kinds of people exist.



He never anticipated that his blog would attract such a large audience of the alternative community. He's indicated that several times.



Then, he found himself kind of painted into a corner. He repeatedly said, very properly, that people could accept or reject the information as they chose, and always stated on his blog that it was 'fiction'. But such is (always!) the pressure from the alternative community for information, that he found himself under pressure that he never planned or anticipated. This pressure is not over yet for him by any means.



Some of his information might really be true, based on real personal experiences. Not just his past-life recall. But it's hard to know which is which, because he's not really saying.



Separately from the points above, Corey has plagiarized (without source credit, which is what plagiarism is) much of Shane's information and presented it opportunistically as his own.



So we have the tangled situation of
— Shane basically having integrity (except that he may have lied at least once, i.e. about the Cassandra letters, and, quite separately, there's some reason to believe there's at least another lie on a separate off-record matter... but that's to be discussed later if appropriate).
— the situation having run away with him in an unplanned way
— and that as another unplanned and damaging effect, Corey (who does NOT have integrity) has now capitalized on all of this for his own reasons.



And, as a conclusion, maybe only a comparatively small amount of this is true. (And, personally, I'd be pleased if it weren't. :) ) We cannot know unless Shane totally comes clean.




~~~~~~



Again: all that was posted by myself to the mods (who themselves are an extremely able research team), on 28 September.

The first set of questions I sent to Shane in writing, on the morning of 5 October. To his credit, Shane answered them in full that same evening. All that I'll post later (not right now), after members have had a chance to digest and reflect on all this so far. Shane's full answers, and his willingness to be questioned, gave him great credit, but a number of important questions remained.

An extended exchange then ensued, lasting until today. That can all be posted here. I am assuming Shane is willing for that to be shared: he was basically defending his story, and has consistently insisted to the present moment that it was all 100% true and that nothing of any kind had been misrepresented.

Again, as per my post above copied from the other thread, Shane has conducted himself impeccably throughout, and I would like to stress this once again.

[onawah]

Is there any chance we could get a similar summation of what the Mod team discovered about the accuracy/inaccuracy of Simon Parkes' information (another "favorite son" of Anu's, according to him!)?
One question:Did Shane claim that he had copied the alleged letter from Cassandra word for word, or could he have perhaps just been paraphrasing in his own words?
( And thanks to the Mod team, again, for remaining alert, on everyone's behalf. I think another thing to keep in mind is that if we manage to uncover untruths or distortions, it will be to Shane's advantage that we do so, as well, so it's not an attack on him unless we frame it that way, as Bill has been careful to avoid doing, and for which I thank him.)

[Bill Ryan]

Is there any chance we could get a similar summation of what the Mod team discovered about the accuracy/inaccuracy of Simon Parkes' information (another "favorite son" of Anu's, according to him!)?

( And thanks to the Mod team, again, for remaining alert, on everyone's behalf. I think another thing to keep in mind is that if we manage to uncover untruths or distortions, it will be to Shane's advantage that we do so, as well, so it's not an attack on him unless we frame it that way, as Bill has been careful to avoid doing, and for which I thank him.)

I'm sure that'd be possible! With enough careful focus, a team of people can look at anything through a really close lens. In Simon's case, I'm not competent to do that, and I don't think the mods are... I'm just not familiar enough with what he's stated on record, and I don't think the others are.

What's important to state here, is that this is not debunking. It's investigation, and is what research really is. The truth is more important than any opinion we each may have, and later (in my messages to Shane) you'll see me explain how important that is.

So an investigation might easily produce all kinds of positive reinforcement, and often does in the hands of a good researcher. One never knows until one starts looking, and asking. That's what we're really all doing together here on Avalon.



One question:Did Shane claim that he had copied the alleged letter from Cassandra word for word, or could he have perhaps just been paraphrasing in his own words?

We go into that later. Shane wrote exactly this:
As I said in the first response the second letter was given back to a member of her group/coven. The way that one actually worked was I met someone and was given the letter. I typed it out and brought it back. As per the instructions. I didn't take any pictures or anything as this was never "evidence" and I never planned to present it in any other way.

[Shane]

As it's quite important.

That letter is transcribed by another from me reading it. Punctuation was added by that person and not by myself. It comes from the transcript of the show, not my own recording of the letter.


With love and respect,

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I'm glad to see this, Bill, primarily because the kind of analysis you are doing above is very similar to textual analysis done by scholars on the text of the Bible: very meticulous attention to grammar, the detailed content of every statement, comparing it with historical context to see if it fits, etc. Wondrous things open up with this kind of careful scrutiny.

This is the kind of critical thinking that needs to be brought to more whistleblower testimonies. Text analysis is only one line of investigation that has a solid tradition behind it that can be employed in this kind of analysis, that historians use, for example. There are other tools, for example with video interviews there are certain signs in the voice and body language that psychologists and police investigators use as indications of possible deception. Unfortunately a lot of these signs only really become visible when the person giving testimony is made uncomfortable by applying critical pressure, and most interviews done with alleged whistleblowers today do not apply this pressure, and instead whistleblowers tend to be treated very politely and their statements apparently taken at face value. I understand that there may be reasons for this (a liar would want to avoid any investigator or journalist known to ask tough questions and press deeply) but it also makes later analysis more difficult.

Though conventional scholarship seems very controlled on some level, the methods they employ for investigation should be studied by everyone here. The methods are good. The manipulation in mainstream academia is purely institutionalized I think.

[awakeningmom]

Thanks for starting this discussion and explanation, Bill. I am looking forward to more posts and particularly to the written discussion with Shane.

I was one of the people who also called "fraud" on the Cassandra letter in the Thomas Williams thread (at post #39, and also #43) for the same reasons you mentioned.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85276-Shane-The-Ruiner-s-new-interview-with-Thomas-Williams-15-Sept-2015&p=1000210&viewfull=1#post1000210

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85276-Shane-The-Ruiner-s-new-interview-with-Thomas-Williams-15-Sept-2015&p=1000325&viewfull=1#post1000325

To my surprise and delight, Shane reached out to me by PM and explained to me that he wasn't upset by my accusation, appreciated my questioning, and that the reason the style looked the same was because he had to "type the letter into his blog from something hand-written." He also told me that the hand-written letter had "no punctuation at all" and that it read as one long sentence that he had to fix and add punctuation when he typed it. Finally, he also suggested that he and Cassandra had spent a lot of time together when Shane was in his teen years so they also might share some similar writing/speaking patterns. I hope those answers match up to the ones provided to you....that would be positive. :)

However, as a teacher used to catching students copying others' work, I'm still fairly confident that Shane wrote the letter himself. But I do believe he wrote it to rally responses and get people motivated to take action/do something/wake up. In other words, I currently believe he did it for a benevolent reason.

I guess once someone is caught lying once, there's the issue of credibility on all other representations. I certainly am wary of/less willing to trust students caught lying/copying, even if I actually "like" them as people and trust they are otherwise "good." And I guess credibility's even more important when you are willing to listen to someone who seems to have some actual intel on what's really going on in this "reality" (or whatever this is). I expect that we all want some damn honest answers and we are all tired of being jerked around.

I have no interest in trashing Shane. My communications with him have been very positive and I like the person he seems to be in his interviews. I'm frankly more puzzled by/interested in the abrupt removal of him from the PA pedestal, and feel like we all really should understand the full why so we can make our own decisions after full disclosure. So I really appreciate your willingness to provide us with that disclosure. Thank you. :heart:

[Robin]

In regards to the letters, I would highly encourage you to reconsider your position in determining how a Parent should write a letter. Your assumption is that somebody who is thousands of years old should be well-versed as a scribe. Why would such a powerful magician who has amplified psychic abilities and speaks clearly in telepathic communication, want to dedicate their time and energy writing?

Language to them would be burdensome, clumsy, and an inefficient way of communicating thoughts and feelings. Furthermore, why would they ever bother writing anything down if their main prerogative is to hide all evidence of their existence? Wouldn't oral communication when giving out orders to the chain-of-command make more sense?

The letter as presented shows diction that is not grammatically correct, and a stream-of-consciousness flow of thoughts and feelings. This is more authentic to me, because it shows just how little a powerful being such as this would care in devoting to an art that is very human-based in the material plane. Since Shane spent a lot of time with this being, it would also make sense that his way of communicating thoughts and feelings may resemble Cassandra's (and vice-versa).

I don't know if it is stated here or anywhere else, but Shane edited the first letter on his blog so as to allow the reader to make sense of it. By editing, I mean that he added certain punctuation, and that's all, which is why you picked up on his "fingerprint." I don't blame him for doing so, but perhaps this was his one and only error. His choice to add in punctuation came out of good intentions, and not out of fabricating anything to suit an agenda or spin information.

When it comes to data analysis, obviously it is a good idea to transcribe a document as it was written by the author, so as to preserve the integrity of the individual's unique character. Would you feel more content about Shane's authenticity if he opened up about this basic grammar-editing, and that he can see how important it is to maintain perfect copying from an original document?

Also, as far as I know, the second letter was only revealed on Thomas' interview by Shane orally. It was transcribed by somebody else...not Shane. This discounts your other accusation strait away.

I have more to say, but I don't really wish to embroil myself in drama. The Mods' analysis to me is very elitist, and I do think it's a shame that such things are discussed behind closed doors and the rest of the members here get watered-down versions of data. There are multiple sides of the story for everything, and perceived innocence and wisdom can become clouded by personal ego.

Respectfully intended, as always. :)

[mojo]

There's a lesson in the OP that can be for others to hear and learn so thank you .. I make the Oregon testimony available to anyone that wishes to understand more in order to earn the trust of our membership.

[Citizen No2]

I see it like this.

The whole Alternative community must accept, if the on-set of the all powerful A.I. is to be believed, or MindKontrol, that we are going to be seeing a lot of 'whistleblowers' whose info, under analysis, turns out to be not as rock-solid as once thought. Now, this could be down to out-right lies, which can be quite easily provable....... but what about this scenario? Manchurian candidate, not with a mission to kill, but a mission to mis-lead. Is there a concerted effort by those who have the means to do so, or is it a case of an individual knowingly telling lies?

If it is a concerted effort by those with means, then why? I used an analogy in a thread a while ago regarding the American air force flying dummy runs over Hiroshima with their bomber aircraft so as to normalise the intended targets to the sight of bomber aircraft.............. are we seeing the beginnings of dummy runs? Why would that be? To normalise us to this type of info so that some known about future event or info does not have the audience pick-up it would otherwise have?

That Shane comes across as a thoroughly decent human being is no guarantee that he is not knowingly telling lies........... but how do you decern such? That Shane could be under the influence of either A.I. or an advanced MK programme, again, how will you know? That Shane is telling the Truth, how will we know?

This episode throws a spotlight on the chink in the Alternative armour. The question is not whether Shane is telling the truth or not, the question should be, how will we recognise the truth when it is told.



Regards.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

we are going to be seeing a lot of 'whistleblowers' whose info, under analysis, turns out to be not as rock-solid as once thought.

Agreed 100%. And why wouldn't we? The CIA had a program training journalists for the mainstream media in the 50's/60's, Operation Mockingbird I believe it was called. They got caught, admitted to it and then said they weren't doing it anymore. Who in the hell believes that?

Now with the Internet, you think agencies like the CIA doesn't once again have an interest in misleading the masses? I'm not saying that Shane is part of some CIA program because I don't think it was that sophisticated in this case. But somebody like Corey Goode, who actually did time in the service, who knows.

I'd give it a 20 to 1 ratio at least, con artists to legit whistleblowers. That's just my feeling on it, throwing it out there, and maybe I'm totally wrong about this. But I guarantee you that someone out there has a vested interest in muddying the waters and that's just one more reason to scrutinize everything we're told, by anyone.

[DNA]

While traversing the various forms out there, I was perplexed to no end at the extent the Ruiner posted on multiple forms.

Back in 2011 I had a job I could basically post on Avalon for 12 hours at a time and get paid for it.
In that time I posted quite a bit here, and as much as I posted I would say my forum presence was maybe a tenth of what the ruiners was across something like ten forums.

This was a significant red flag for me.
This Shane guy was basically posting as a full time job.
His presence was so strangely made continuous I began to wonder if he was a representative of an alphabet agency.
In truth, this is exactly what I deduce.:spy:

[Tangri]

Likely, he is one of the readers(26 years old) of Avalon forum. (but, I am not sure if he is a Canadian, he doesn't have knowledge on history of some of events)

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81805-The-Blog-of-The-Ruiner-Inside-the-Illuminati-Mind&p=956254&viewfull=1#post956254

(No one asked me what inconsistency is present at Canadian event's history.)


Some times(it is polite way to say instate of always) connecting dots are hard. He did good job for an entertainment seekers of alternative media(even though they would find data in Avalon forum's pages but no one wants to leave couch), but still, his reappraisal is too heavy for mass.
If I tell you, I was 15 years old at Boston Marathon bombing event, supporting my mother's run, most of the readers would be ready to listen my experience in that chaos.

In the same time, some of you would have different questions on my story.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81805-The-Blog-of-The-Ruiner-Inside-the-Illuminati-Mind&p=956546&viewfull=1#post956546


I am agree with rest of writing, that reason I kept only one part of it.

The party is worth to attend in my opinion. You won't waste your time in it, unlike other posts here (what's up here and today, look what I find at YouTube again, earth is flat,.....,..., threads)

BUT you need a thermometer to catch water's temperature change, since we start this journey in a pot.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81805-The-Blog-of-The-Ruiner-Inside-the-Illuminati-Mind&p=956579&viewfull=1#post956579

I want to talk on dark- light terrestrials.

They both believe sacrificing-trust relation.

Lights want you(sacrifice), not reproduce for future liabilities to become an obstacle in full flourish. At exit point, they trust your dignity and maturity, no need for promises, but there is no bridge to turn back.

Dark want you to reproduce, then sacrifice what you reproduced, liability is the subjects's survival instinct.

For blood lines, off springs are disposable with their numbers. There is only one exit with no exception. Every individual is a property of the master.
Mercy or masterly pardon(personal favor) for exit , is not in their vocabulary.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81875-Dark-White-terrestials&p=956840&viewfull=1#post956840

What could I write more?

[Bill Ryan]

As it's quite important.

That letter is transcribed by another from me reading it. Punctuation was added by that person and not by myself. It comes from the transcript of the show, not my own recording of the letter.



Yes, Shane is right. That letter was transcribed not by Shane, but by Chloe (Thomas Williams' wife) who transcribed the audio of the radio show in which Shane read the letter aloud. The 'haha' was said by Shane, not written by Cassandra. :)

I've asked Shane if he would send me (or post here) the version he transcribed himself, which he says he has on his phone. He stated that he doesn't have either of the originals, which were handwritten.

He said he was required to return the originals after having had sight of them with permission to transcribe them. He did not scan them, or take a photo with his smartphone, so his transcripts are all that he has (and all that we have).

It seems strange to me (almost unbelievable, in fact) that he was not allowed to keep these handwritten letters as a final memento of someone he was close to and spent a lot of time with, in one letter saying goodbye for the very last time.

I routinely take photos of paper documents to archive them (many reading here will do the same), and with something of this unique nature I'd think that most people would have taken a little trouble to save a good copy.

It takes 10-15 mins (or more, if he did it on his smartphone) to transcribe a handwritten document like that. A photo with the same phone in his hand would have taken 1 second.

It's also not easily believable to me that the letters were written by a wise old soul who had been around for a very long time, communicating (one presumes) in various ways over the ages in many cultures and languages. They show every mark of being written by a young, contemporary person.

The problem, as we'll see, is that there's NOTHING to substantiate the story... totally nothing. One can't prove a negative, so everything is circumstantial. But it casts real doubt on everything. For several days I wrote to Shane, imploring him to help us substantiate his story with something. But nothing was forthcoming. It's a huge problem for a researcher.

And if the story's important (important enough to hold interviews about, write a 40,000 word blog about, and which, if true, is of immense import to us all) — then it's important enough to offer at least a tiny shred of documentation. But that was not even offered, and I was disappointed.

Shane could have said:




"Hey, I really understand the problem. It's not in my hands, which are tied. But I have an idea: if you write a letter, for instance requesting sight of the original letters, or ANYTHING at all that would make the story credible, I will make sure it gets to the right people, and maybe they will respond. I will help if I possibly can."
But he didn't offer that. All he said was (my paraphrase): "Well, I never said I could prove anything, and I always said it was fiction. You'd better assume I was lying."

That's not helpful. It does nothing to serve the truth.

Jumping ahead a little, here's what I wrote to Shane a few days ago. I feel it with everything I do and am. This (in my view) is what this is all about.








Hi there, Shane — apologies: my bad for not getting back to you to thank you for responding to all my questions so promptly. I was not willfully ignoring you. I've had quite a busy day.

Re your reply, you've not quite got it right. :)

It's not at all that I "can't afford to interview someone who cannot be verified." Henry Deacon can't really be verified, either, and I'd stand by his testimony to Camelot till the end of time.

It's about epistemology. That is: how do we know what we think or feel we know? This question is at a researcher's core.

There are few real researchers around any more. Those who have interviewed you so far are not researchers, at all. (Kerry never was. That's just not her skill set, well-intentioned as she always is.)

Research means being committed to a process where the end product is having a certain confidence in truth.

I am committed to the truth — whatever it is. Nothing less. And my JOB and my LIFE is about telling the truth, because we all deserve it. We deserve it, existentially, because we simply 'are'. We exist. We live. We need, and get our nourishment from, truth.

Truth is part of the Godhead. Anything else is the opposite of that, whatever that is.

If you have lived a strange life, that has granted you personal access to exotic information, in my opinion you have a DUTY to tell that truth. That's a tough deal, but you chose this mission of yours.

So, you have a duty to tell the truth — unless you're going to be punished for it materially, which is a different kettle of fish. But saying you're just a 'story teller' is a cop-out. That's you trying to get yourself off the hook you were born into. You can't do that. You're locked into your own life, for better or for worse.

The best choice is to make it for the better.

So... tell the truth. I can help you do that. Maybe better than anyone else out there. We've had enough 'stories'. No-one needs any more. The community's patience is pretty thin. They may love you at first, but they'll crucify you later if they feel you have deceived (or even withheld from) them.

Do you see?

You can't go back now. You've already taken the 'pill' (as it were: 'Matrix' analogy) that makes you a source of information for a very hungry community that has been lied to over and again. That's tough, also, but you did choose this.

So, my questions were designed to explore just a little deeper, and it was a first stab at a little layer of further research that no-one had yet done. I also wanted to see what you would say about certain things, because of course you don't know what I already know from other sources. But then, cross-checking, and cross-referencing, and aligning, and looking for consistencies, and looking for anomalies, and forming hypotheses, is also part of what good research is, every day. Rich Dolan, Linda Howe, Joseph Farrell are pretty good at that. I'm not too bad when I'm in the zone. There are others, but not too many these days.

I would like to interview you. I would ask tough questions, but I would ask them very fairly. But I would not let you off any hook, as the others have so far, by failing to ask the obvious questions, and not following up at all on some things that you had mentioned in passing.

The interviewer's job (and at my best I am quite a good interviewer, as well as a quite a good researcher) is to totally help and support the witness state their truth as completely as possible. Sometimes, one needs to do very little. At other times, one needs to do quite a bit more.

If you are going to do the 'interview circuit', do it properly. Subject yourself to straight questions. Answer them honestly, and fully, and in detail. Savor that, because that can be the warrior (you) at his very finest hour.

Don't just tell stories. The audience will eventually turn against you for that. We've had way too many of those, already. It's a MEME. And be careful, always, that despite all your good intentions, that you are not being used.

With my love and respect in return ~ Bill

[sarah22]

"Now, it'd been fairly clear to me immediately that the Cassandra letters could not have written by some wise old near-immortal soul. They looked and felt they'd been written by a young, contemporary person. Quite a few people have said the same thing, of course."

At first I thought that as well but then I thought this; that the Cassandra letters might be exactly how an impossibly arrogant, extremely elitist and emotionally underdeveloped person might speak when writing about emotions at the time of her death. Especially one who is unused to discussing, much less valuing, her feelings. They arent that well written and do seem to be in Shane's voice, but here in this post, I am looking at the possibility that they are the real words of a Parent about to die.

In my experience, people who see feelings as a waste of time, can be very bumbling when it comes time to share how they actually feel. They can speak or write just like a 5 year old- not because they are unintelligent but because they have not developed any skill in describing or understanding how they feel.

If what Shane is saying is correct and they have been controlled by Dracos, writing any letter to express sentiment would have been deeply disapproved of but perhaps allowed because she was about to die. From what I have read, Dracos seem to think of emotions as a pathetic weakness of the human race. I wouldn't think the Dracos would be tolerant of too much emotion in their closest Earth contacts, the Parents.
I think these letters from Cassandra show how f@#^ed up "people" like Cassandra really are. I am not trying to defend Cassandra here, but this letter could be seen as an accurate portrayal of a person whose soul has shrunk. Someone who has developed an increasing coldness/arrogance that has allowed her to be ever more distant from the horrors she has caused over the past thousands of years. And if these letters are real, could it be that she hasn't grown at all, but de-evolved on a soul level? That after 1000's of years of life, she has become this immature and arrogant?

And yet, isn't that ridiculous level of arrogance and immaturity exactly what the Dracos ARE like? If the Dracos were mature, wise and balanced, they wouldn't have done what they did. They are highly intelligent but soul growth is different. Suppossedly, they have been this way for 10's of thousands of years... like the house of Abraxas in the Jupiter Ascending movie.

I think Robin above made a great point, about writing as an art. I wonder, would a Cassandra-like being ever really need that skill? Wouldn't she delegate that to someone else? I wonder how many emotional letters has she even written in her long lifetime? Maybe those two were the only ones in thousands of years?

Or.. it's Shane. :)

Thank you, Bill and Mods, for this analysis, it's been helpful seeing another side to this, very much appreciated.

[WhiteLove]

Thanks Bill for this! Lately there have been multiple accounts of incredible stories being presented to the truth seeking community, where several of these have been incredibly problematic due to lack of evidence, cross correlations and answers to critical questions. There is a danger in this, because one or several of these could be, with or without knowing so, under unknown/known influence to help distort the awareness within the truth seeking community.

Corey Goode (is this his real name?!) and Shane (is this his real name?!) are two examples of this - lots of claims, but is there a single evidence of anything? It is so important in the truth seeking quest, that we do not become victims of deception. When somebody turns to the truth seeking community with something "important", it should be obvious to those coming front that the truth seeking community demands the highest levels of authenticity and truthfulness and that a case without any information on evidence at all, is by default incredibly problematic, and could be met by the truth seeking community as a case of "waste of their time". This should be obvious, so that whenever people actually do step forward in truth, people that are real - with a truthful story and intent - then those stories can shine through in a clear way, rather than having to compete with noise out there.

At its core it kind of becomes an issue in terms of truth seeker authority. If you have someone like say Edward Snowden, and the authority of Mikey (not his real name) is initially being set at the same authority level as Edward due to dynamite but untrue content put front, then that will put Snowden at significant added danger, because both will be grouped together in authority level by the public, meaning a signficant authority drop towards Edward, hence lost protection.

Guys like Edward Snowden, Steven Greer etc., they need to stay at a position of truth seeker authority, because their whole life depends on it. So it must be important that persons that suddenly challenge with similar capacity of knowledge (however false stuff), do not start to eat on the authority of the established truth seeker community.

It should also be clear that when people step forward in the manner we are now witnessing, by allowing that to take place at the scale it does, by enabling that through providing public interviews, there is significant danger possible to play out towards those persons should the false message actually happen to contain some truth and the Cabal happens to have a serious interest in silencing that particular kind of stuff. So eventhough they put themselves at danger by stepping forward, the ones that are enablers of that by providing "the playing field", contribute to that danger.

So when this happens, it is actually most safe for all, to officially consider that none of this that Corey Goode/Shane is presenting is at this point considered important, or is at this point giving these guys any kinds of authority by the truth seeking community... And I guess that is why you are active in this matter Bill, you want to ensure an optimum level of safety and truth towards all.

We know what has happened before to some people having come forward in truth at this capacity with real evidence (guys like Phil Schneider) but got their authority undermined, at a certain point it becomes a matter of life and death. That's why this is not just a matter of what is true and false, but also a matter of what is safe and not in terms of how it is put to light.

[Curt]

Bill, thanks for this discussion- and for the transparency it brings.

I only hope that in the next instance of an 'insider' coming to Avalon to tell their stories, this same level of discernment is brought to bear from the very beginning- and not after they've already been given your considerable support, which carries a lot of weight here and elsewhere in the alt community.

Much heartache and confusion could have been avoided were Shane, Correy and several others' stories vetted this thoroughly from the outset.

It's the old ounce of prevention versus pound of cure scenario.

[ThePythonicCow]

I only hope that in the next instance of an 'insider' coming to Avalon to tell their stories, this same level of discernment is brought to bear from the very beginning- and not after they've already been given your considerable support, which carries a lot of weight here and elsewhere in the alt community.
That might be easier said than done.

As with most areas of active research, those with something to say don't arrive with their resume completed, their books written and published, and their full story already well told.

Rather the one's with something to say are working with sites such as Avalon and various other forums and media, to develop their story and present it. We, those who follow and study such material, work with those who have something to say, in a mutual endeavor to understand what they have to say and what matters to them, and to refine our own understanding of what's going on and what's important.

Critical strengths and limitations, both ours and theirs, become evident only over time.

This comes with the territory ... of being on the leading (bleeding?) edge.

[Constance]

Truth is part of the Godhead. Anything else is the opposite of that, whatever that is.


And once we have shone a light on exactly what that Godhead/source encompasses, anything that is the exact opposite of that can be seen for what it is. We will no longer be scrubbing shadows off the wall.
I feel that with all that we are currently up against, it is all just shifting sands. The sands shift, we uncover an object, the sand shifts again and it disappears back into the sand.
I really miss Rachels (our moderators) signature where she says "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling" I really do.

[Realeyes]

Methinks if any of the great wise sages of olden times were to incarnate now in these present Times, they would all elect to be a quiet and simple road sweeper.

But I get it; an Inquisition was always a big crowd gatherer. I just hope with this devil purging on others we remember to apply the same pointed finger of criticism upon ourselves.

And one day……… hopefully one day….. Maybe Humanity will grow up and lovingly embrace one another and celebrate each other’s individual uniqueness. :flower::flower::flower:

Until then it’s more popcorn.


http://www.cute-calendar.com/images/en/teaser/popcorn-lovers-day.jpg

[Daozen]

I think Shane is telling the truth, FWIW. No time to add my 2 cents to the discussion. You know that scene with the house and flowers: Stinger/Caine Wise in Act I of Jupiter Ascending? That is all for real...

If you want disclosure, don't read the blogs; watch mainstream kids movies. Look at that new movie "Pan"... they are rubbing a huge mystery right in people's faces, and all the "in-the-know" Facebook intel jockeys are ignoring it. This used to frustrate me but I am starting to see the funny side now. The ufo alt media is a gigantic psy-op, but I don't think Shane is part of it.

The art of controlled alt media is keeping people behind the curve, while making them think they are ahead of it.

[Calz]

But I get it; an Inquisition was always a big crowd gatherer.




Rather dramatic change in the air ... I'll remain open minded and shift to the fence for the meanwhile (although it pains my private parts).



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqreRufrkxM

[Ewan]

I'd never read that 2nd letter purportedly from

http://s23.postimg.org/4x0k2nuej/Cassandra.jpg

I can see what people are suggesting regarding such a persons ability to write about unfamiliar emotion, but :noidea:, it seemed to me the writer of that was plagued with immature emotion.

It came across as an angsty teenager ready to commit suicide with the sole intention of hurting those left behind. The ultimate act of revenge that never quite gets thought through enough.

In addition it conveniently fits in with a script, if such it is, that is gaining an increasing level of awareness.

[Karpos]

So who trained Putin, if not Shane? So anomalous.

[Timreh]

I am not at all surprised by what has happened here.
What initially impressed me about Shane (Sep 8th Camelot Interview & Sep 15 Thomas Williams interview) and what stood him apart from the 'others' for me was that he spoke with humility and without any 'ego' nor was there any apparent agenda, and yes as Bill stated he may believe all of this... which opens a can of worms.
That I am now doubtful of Shane is an understatement, I do however have no hard feelings for him.

Hopefully some have learnt to be a little more critical and skeptical of those with interesting tales to tell as there will probably be many more that will be 'sent' our way!
Events like this educate us and keep us on our toes, preventing complacency.
Thank you Bill and the Mods

[NeedleThreader]

Bill, I am so relieved that you posted this today. As well intentioned as Shane may be and sound, there was something rubbing me the wrong way from the beginning and I was waiting for this day when you posted this.

I feel like Shane is a highly intelligent and good hearted person. His message comes off as one of love and not doom and gloom which may be his one redeeming quality in my opinion, and thus his message is highly regarded in the community and on the forum. I have had many interesting experiences in my life, mostly involving ETs, but I have never believed in Draconians, Avians or the like. I want to believe Shane, that would be so nice! I have a very handy internal BS detector that is very good at analyzing voice, body movements, eyes, etc. and from the day I heard Shane's interview with Kerry, I had to call several friends who are also members here and share my thoughts.

I deeply believe that Shane has spent hours, days, weeks and months like we all have on this forum and many others, educating himself on the endless plethora of information and disinformation. Shane has woven several of these informational threads together into his own story, but what makes him different is that he has sprinkled so much positivity and love into it.

It's as if Shane is just a regular person like us, with a vast knowledge of the alternative news, who thought to himself: " I can be the answer these people are looking for with my message of positivity and love. Even if it is all a lie, I can make a difference with the positive spin on things." What drives a person to throw themselves into the spotlight and make up an alternate identity is beyond the message I wish to convey here today.

Thanks again Bill, I look forward to seeing where this is going. To Shane: I understand your plight my friend but not at the cost of truth and reality.

[Curt]

NeedleThreader,

You raise an excellent point. It is hard to imagine why a trusted member would concoct a false identity by weaving bits of other people's stories together into their own.

If that is what happened here, it would be a pretty big breach of trust and a sad day for PA. I, too, am thankful Bill is opening this up for discussion.

Thanks for your insight.

Bill, I am so relieved that you posted this today. As well intentioned as Shane may be and sound, there was something rubbing me the wrong way from the beginning and I was waiting for this day when you posted this.

I feel like Shane is a highly intelligent and good hearted person. His message comes off as one of love and not doom and gloom which may be his one redeeming quality in my opinion, and thus his message is highly regarded in the community and on the forum. I have had many interesting experiences in my life, mostly involving ETs, but I have never believed in Draconians, Avians or the like. I want to believe Shane, that would be so nice! I have a very handy internal BS detector that is very good at analyzing voice, body movements, eyes, etc. and from the day I heard Shane's interview with Kerry, I had to call several friends who are also members here and share my thoughts.

I deeply believe that Shane has spent hours, days, weeks and months like we all have on this forum and many others, educating himself on the endless plethora of information and disinformation. Shane has woven several of these informational threads together into his own story, but what makes him different is that he has sprinkled so much positivity and love into it.

It's as if Shane is just a regular person like us, with a vast knowledge of the alternative news, who thought to himself: " I can be the answer these people are looking for with my message of positivity and love. Even if it is all a lie, I can make a difference with the positive spin on things." What drives a person to throw themselves into the spotlight and make up an alternate identity is beyond the message I wish to convey here today.

Thanks again Bill, I look forward to seeing where this is going. To Shane: I understand your plight my friend but not at the cost of truth and reality.

[Selkie]

I never believed him. I took one look at his blog and thought, "This guy can't be for real." I chalk it up to my education at the hands of John Lash. I saw deep into the mind of a :bs: artist (to put it mildly) during my time with him.

Just my two cents.

And thanks, Bill. Thanks very much :) :bearhug:

[Daozen]

Not many young writers use semi-colons these days. But Shane does.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/5/50/Implied_Facepalm.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131206112402

[Pam]

"Well, I never said I could prove anything, and I always said it was fiction. You'd better assume I was lying." Quote paraphrased by Bill Ryan from Shane.


If you are reporting actual events, why would you call it fiction? Is it possible that a lonely person with a lot of time on his hands began writing a blog, which he has qualified as fiction, that became more popular then he could ever imagine? His readers chose to ignore the fact that he has called his own story fiction.

He could not resist the opportunity to step into the lime light when it was offered to him. That little bit of notoriety seems to have an addictive quality and makes some desperate to keep it. In order to stay there, his story has to be true. Now there is the dilemma of defending the details and that can be difficult if they didn't really happen.

Some have indicated that someone as nice and humble as Shane presents himself to be can't be making up a story, why not? He may just be a really nice guy that created a fictional blog, or he could be a sociopath that chose the persona of a nice, humble guy. He wouldn't be the first. Anyone will find a nice guy more believable then a jerk.

I tend to believe that he told us his story was fiction, because it is. Maybe he wrote it , believing it to be accurate, but inserted himself into the story. Out of need , he sort of dropped the fictional stance as he became more popular until he was called on to provide proof.

[Debra]

Shane, what are you thinking right now?

My respect to everyone here, I would like to know.

Thanks

[Shannon]

I just hope dude stays classy and doesn't begin some hate rant .... I happen to think he will remain respectful as he did when many people here boldly told him he was full o'chit :)

Needlethreader great post, well said!

[Octavusprime]

The sleeper cells are becoming active it seems. What is the driver is my big question? Speaking of first Corey and now Shane, either these two just want the spotlight or they are part of some concerted effort to spread an agenda...

Is the intent to get the alternative community so confused and frustrated with whistle blowers that they will not trust a real one when they appear? It would make sense to weave truth and lies in order to discredit future truth sayers.

If Corey and Shane are sleeper cells wakened to cause havoc then there must be a good reason that their handlers would risk outting such long embedded assets. I mean both were well respected and established members of the alternative community. Why would there be two (in many ways similar) huge "disclosures" in such a small timeframe?

Then again we can't underestimate the power of ego and man's desire to be a celebrity. Perhaps both thought they could rise in the alternative community and perhaps cash in on it at the same time...

[awakeningmom]

.
Dear All....


The first set of questions I sent to Shane in writing, on the morning of 5 October. To his credit, Shane answered them in full that same evening. All that I'll post later (not right now), after members have had a chance to digest and reflect on all this so far. Shane's full answers, and his willingness to be questioned, gave him great credit, but a number of important questions remained.

An extended exchange then ensued, lasting until today. That can all be posted here. I am assuming Shane is willing for that to be shared: he was basically defending his story, and has consistently insisted to the present moment that it was all 100% true and that nothing of any kind had been misrepresented.

Again, as per my post above copied from the other thread, Shane has conducted himself impeccably throughout, and I would like to stress this once again.

Bill, any chance you can now post the first set of (October 5) questions and answers -- and the rest of the accompanying exchange -- as per your offer in this post? I think it's a bit of a waste of energy for everyone to be chiming in about whether they now believe Shane or not, based largely on the Cassandra letter issues, which were raised quite a while ago by several members at least. I think that part has now been processed.... :)

[sunflower]

http://projectavalon.net/Cassandra_letters.doc

An element of foreshadowing in Cassandra’s second letter:


They will break your bleeding heart. Watch my words come true, but you have your chance, your father left, your old friend is impotent, and you are all fired up.

So what is what is broken and cannot be repaired, the dark prince has no teeth and there is you..so neither of us will have what we have wanted, you will join me soon enough in the departure. Your memory is long but selective just as you say about others. Your eyes are open, but bloodshot. Following your failure we will meet again, I promise you that.

Shane’s blog was never a disclosure project nor was it directed to a general audience. So I wonder if the “tarring and feathering” has officially started.

That said, Bill is doing his “darndest” to get to the bottom of things and I trust his judgement.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Hi, All — many thanks for all your posts here, and also for many PMs that I've received overnight. I'll continue to go slow, but will share a lot more today if I can.

My approach here is rather as Kerry and I did in Camelot days... to allow/help the viewer/reader to accompany us in real-time in our own journey of learning. That never stops.

Re the PMs (just in case I can't or don't respond personally), some were lengthy and very well-written, from members who are very appreciative


of our careful and detailed approach,
that we're being very respectful,
that it's helped them to become less confused themselves, in some cases confirming their own unvoiced concerns.

That's very nice to hear... that (above) really is our job. It's easy for people to forget that I personally get a little battered and bruised by all this sometimes. It's not easy grappling with these apparent conflicts and differences. I really do want to live in a world where everyone gets along perfectly, and easily. But we may be a long way from that just yet.

And this is not an inquisition. It's research. If I think I'm wrong, I'll say so. So will everyone else I know and trust here.

First, this, from Shane by e-mail a few hours ago to the mods. I assume, with good reason, that it's fine to share this for the record.




Hi Bill,
That transcript was done based on my reading the letter. As I said in the thread. :)
Cassandra said haha because I say it a lot (as you've pointed out) and she was mocking me.

So that means that Cassandra really DID write 'haha', and my initial assumption was correct.

The original transcript is still not forthcoming. I hope that we might be able to see it.




Bill, any chance you can now post the first set of (October 5) questions and answers -- and the rest of the accompanying exchange -- as per your offer in this post?

Yes, will do. Shane's answers need to be on record, and I'm sure he would wish that. Some of them are really helpful (genuinely).



I just hope dude stays classy and doesn't begin some hate rant .... I happen to think he will remain respectful as he did when many people here boldly told him he was full o'chit :)

Yes. As I said in my first post, Shane has conducted himself with great courtesy throughout. That matters.



So who trained Putin, if not Shane? So anomalous.

Made me laugh! Yes, this was (in my strong opinion) patently ridiculous, self-evidently so. Things like this are a real problem, and can't be glossed over.





The art of controlled alt media is keeping people behind the curve, while making them think they are ahead of it.

Yes. Great comment. (Put that in a signature! :) )

I think this bears repeating from my first post:




An overarching topic of concern here is that there's reason to believe that there may be a gross strategic manipulation taking place of the alternative community, maybe a previously experimental program now gone operational. Some of those involved, being used as assets, may not even know about it. I'd VERY much like to think that Shane was in the latter category. But there's something mighty strange going on here. If things don't 'feel right' — then this paragraph may supply clues.

I want to say more about this today. This has not been voiced yet, anywhere that I know of. There are some 'dots' I'd like to table and point out that may be very helpful for us all to look at.

It paints a picture of the possibility of a huge strategic attempt to confuse every one of us with false claims that seem for all the world to be credible, in some cases presented by the very nicest and most sincere people.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Seems to me Shane is not in the same group as those disinfo agents and provocateurs like Charles or Corey or a host of others here at our forum over the years.

We were not even his intended audience.

Most here have a picture of what true reality really is. And that picture has been fleshing out over the years into a hodge-podge of half-truths and down-right speculation. This much we all seem to understand, and for simplicity, I'll state it like this: there are two realities: the one we all live in and know, and another reality above that that is occulted and secret. It is this second reality that controls us unwittingly and that holds the agenda for the future. Although that statement contains a lot of information it is also very general. It brackets the problems we face and our dire situation but it does not tell us how or why. That is where we are, trying to find suitable answers to the whys and hows. We understand what but not why and how.

So these interlopers who come along with their stories have to fit into the framework we already understand. It had better be conspiratorial or it holds no merit. If the story is all fluffy clouds and love bombs we will not stay with the story, if it is too doom and gloom with no hope, the same. Then each of us has a slant on the truth, our own biased beliefs. Others have theirs. This causes the story the teller is recounting to splinter off those whose biases predispose them to reject that part of the story.

I truly believe that if Jesus Christ were to come down here there would be many who could never believe it. Same for Buddha or Mohamed or Vishnu - or even Anu himself, for that matter.

My point is that I am not sure if we can all agree on anything, truth or lie. And I think that even the truth would have a hard time in this crowd.

Not a vilification, just an observation. We have all been fooled for so long that our prejudices are our foundation - and that is not a conducive position for ascertaining truth.

Shane, like all people has his own personal worldview. Some parts cannot be aired in public. Seems reasonable to me. He doesn't lie, he says it is all fiction. He has no agenda, he asks no one to believe him. He answers questions posed to him. He is always courteous and kind. He has one heck of a story. Some of it may even be true despite him saying it is all fiction.

I don't think I have ever told a story where there was not some withheld portion I wished to keep secret. I might bend the story somewhat to protect the innocent or an unrelated individual or a source or just some personal weakness. It doesn't make the story untrue, but it might cause people to think it is.

The lies Shane has been caught in are very small - and it might not even be accurate. It is just speculation. A coupla dots. A letter copied but no photo. That's it. A bit circumstantial. Funny, a ten thousand year old alien king is not grounds for dubiousness. Exiled to a derelict planet for several thousand years is acceptable. Occupying a human body is within the bounds of reason. But two dots and a copied letter blows the thing out of the water!

Shane may have given us the best over-view ever of the second reality (see above). I can almost guarantee some of it is false, it has to be, he is only human (as far as any of us can say). But his picture meshed well with my own with very few discrepancies. But there are parts I cannot accept, just as there are with every interviewee. That does not lessen his story, they only highlight my own areas of confusion and lack of concrete information to make an informed decision. He has helped place a few more pieces of the puzzle into place.

Thanks Shane.

[Bill Ryan]

The lies Shane has been caught in are very small - and it might not even be accurate. It is just speculation. A coupla dots. A letter copied but no photo. That's it. A bit circumstantial. Funny, a ten thousand year old alien king is not grounds for dubiousness. Exiled to a derelict planet for several thousand years is acceptable. Occupying a human body is within the bounds of reason. But two dots and a copied letter blows the thing out of the water!




Yes, well put. The text analysis thing was just an entry point for a wider bunch of questions. It matters, I think, but we shouldn't overlook AT ALL what I also noted here in my first post:




Although this is not in his blog or either of his two interviews, Shane has stated that (paraphrase) he has memory of being Anu's favorite son, and he was trained to be a killing machine.

As a result, he said, he was banished to a desolate planet that contained no sentient beings, and stayed there for thousands of years (or maybe eons). Through sheer will, he broke free and was able to incarnate into the body of a human on earth who had been disposed of. His next incarnation on earth is now Shane, and he has full memory.

This is important, because Shane has NEVER said anything like that on record. What this seems to mean is that at least quite a lot of his data (maybe most of his data) comes from his subjective personal past-life recall.

And while that's to be noted (I have subjective past-life recall, too!), it can be messed with, totally. These things can EASILY be implanted overlays. There's no way to investigate that unless one consults a very experienced past-life practitioner. There's nothing to indicate that Shane has ever done that.

It means that to at least some degree, we're dealing only with subjective personal certainty (Shane's) here. That puts the information in quite a different category, that as best I know was never made clear to the reader or listener at any stage.

Shane didn't say or write



Hey, everyone, this is what I recall, and I recall it clearly, and it feels real to me, and someone else I'm close to has the same set of memories. But I've never had it checked out, and I present it just for what it's worth, because it's pretty interesting stuff. And yes, I do intend to dig into this formally with an experienced practitioner, because it seems it'd be well worth while for me to do that. And when I do that, I'll let everyone know.
It's NOT like Shane learned all this in briefings, meetings, from ancient documents, or even from casual conversations with colleagues. To a very large degree, this is all subjective reality. He stated this here, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85125-Shane-The-Ruiner-s-interview-with-Kerry-Cassidy-8-Sept-2015&p=1001282&viewfull=1#post1001282) — but only 6 (six) months after he started his blog:
There is this funny misconception that the info I share comes from the Illuminati.

The "intended audience" of the blog is the illuminati. Which means I am talking to the Illuminati members, not to the public.This sounds tough to say, but Shane had passively ALLOWED many people to think this was all inside information, which the alternative community was very hungry for. Really, he only clarified this point under pressure, by stating what it WASN'T. He never said what it WAS. You read that on this thread, first, you see. That's a problem.

I have no issue with the idea of subjective past-life recall. I have a great deal of personal experience in that area.

I know how slippery it can be, with overlays, implants, mixups, the influences of other beings, dub-ins (meaning: when a blank is filled in by oneself for continuity or comfort), and much more. It's extremely hard (for most people, impossible) to verify one's own recall by oneself, by self-reflection.

Something FEELING subjectively real means really very little in terms of factual analysis.

As an example, look at the continuing avalanche of channeled information that's received, believed and reported... some or much of which is plain contradictory. It can't all be correct. And that casts great doubt on the reliability of the process itself.

I'll say more a little later about the problem of recall... and that RECALL is exactly what quite a bit of the bad information flooding the alternative media is all about. Something recalled just does NOT mean that it happened, or that it's in any way real.

[Octavusprime]

If this is in fact fantasy and "The Ruiner" is just a character created by Shane then I wish he would stop beating around the bush and just say it.

This whole "it wasn't meant for Avalon" crap is ridiculous. If it truly was meant for your friends then email them. Fine you blogged it, then don't come onto Avalon and answer questions. The whole thing is wonky and makes little logical sense.

On another note: I was very skeptical and critical of both Shane and Corey when they first came out. In both cases many people (both mods and members) came out in support of these two. Most of it was character endorsement. Basically I felt my discernment and criticism was not wanted. So I quietly left the discussions. I personally think it is dangerous, in my eyes, group censorship. I didn't feel welcome to criticize or investigate in an open forum.

I'll admit I lurked both threads waiting for the sheet to hit the fan. /popcorn I'm greatful that the veil was finally lifted. I just hope we can be a little more careful in the future and not jump to support the next "big insider".

Granted the mods have to walk the fine line of giving people a safe place to disclose and vetting out the fakes. The mod team has to be very careful with their endorsements because like it or not there is a flock of followers that take their word as gospel.

[gripreaper]

Seems to me

Thanks Ernie for this. You have been quiet and sitting on the sidelines for months, and you coming into this thread with such wisdom is refreshing. The "thanks" button was just not enough.

As many of you know, I don't post in the Simon Parks, Corey, Shane, Chris Thomas, Jimmini, or any of these types of threads. I came to Avalon during the Charles days, and I did try to be a mirror for what I was seeing, and everybody knows how much fun I had with the Drake material. Since then, I just don't.

They always seem to come back and remind us, that we are no longer driven by outside sources and that we are to turn inward for all wisdom. Maybe that is the collective lesson for mankind, or internet forums for that matter.

Bill stating that there may be a concerted effort to dismantle the alternative news and forum discussions, because we may be exposing too much, could be true.

We've seen many mass exoduses over the years here, the most difficult for me being Christine and the awesome group of women who were bringing the divine feminine into focus. I have no evidence about what happened or how it went down, and quite frankly, its none of my business. Dawn leaving was hard too. I liked Fred Steeves, Modwiz and others too, and I never did like the energy coming from that other site where many ex-pats from Avalon were hanging out.

Maybe the internet forums are a distraction and are keeping us at our keyboards and are stopping us from ushering in the next level of consciousness. Maybe Ernie is right to have moved away from the forum as a prolific poster. I too have moved away from being a purveyor of daily wisdom and understanding. There's really only about a dozen members who have been around long enough to have read most of my stuff, and I see them congregating in the same discussions and the same threads. Don't ever think the thanks button is just a thanks button. It tells a lot.

Do we really need those last few lessons? Like Jackson Browne says in this song, "Lay down your truth and check your weapons, the next voice you hear will be your own." So I leave you with this song. Listen to the words carefully:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhS69C1tr0w

[Savannah]

Bill it seems this tread and your other recent one on the counter culture are a reflection of what you have been thinking lately and I can’t agree more that it seems the alternative community is experiencing a psyop with possible multiple desired outcomes. The operatives are at times completely aware hired guns or mind controlled victims with good intentions. It’s been noted that mind controlled operatives have the advantage of being more believable because they have a real conviction behind what they say and their history as regular jo/Jane is generally verifiable.
The reason
1) As others have indicated, to hurt the credibility of future whistleblowers.
2) Make the whole movement appear based on nonsense and discourage people from getting involved with it or dropping out of it.
3) The community tears itself apart because feelings get hurt, people are invalidated, heroes are dethroned and put through the “inquisition”.
4) To keep alterative/truth community chasing their tails debating and analyzing useless information and in effect accomplishing nothing. No real change happens, we are no threat to anything or anyone. We are not bringing notice to ourselves, protesting or coming up with real actions that threaten their structure.
We need to remember all that we write on theses blogs is available for “them” to read. They know when we are turned off by Corey’s hostility and thus the next one is quickly presented with “love and respect”. They are a step ahead at all times. If it appears the jig is up on this one they will try another approach in few weeks or months. They know how we research and how we figure them out.
As the Casandra letter said, there have always been thousands of people like us and I think they have always known how to keep them in line. It’s when we take it the streets were a real threat and we need to figure out how to do that without getting ourselves killed.

[Catsquotl]

So here's a rather extensive blog.
And we are arguing it's trustworthiness over a letter that either was or wasn't written by the author.

If evidence of deceit was piling up... Maybe a letter like that would be the final nail... As it is though....
I'm not convinced by the evidence of any Ruiners mindtricks.

Mind you being who I am I enjoyed his blog, but didn't find it more enlightening or spindoctory as many other "Truths" out there..
It also didn't change me that much except for the fact that after the corey thing and the camp's that started forming around the Ruiners blog I am less and less involved on the 'truth' community..

Heck with the way we seem to bicker who needs a psy-op to get us off track ey.

With Love
Eelco

[norman]

Yes, I'm glad that you, Bill, are sticking to the point that there seems to be a second level of manipulation going on with the alternative scene.

I have no idea what to think of this particular issue you've raised here in this thread, but I'm also feeling a sense that the 'game' has been well and truly 'uped'.

I don't want to go off on a ramble about why I feel this. I'll stick with just saying, Flat world, and Jade 2 ( as being the 2 most screamingly obvious red flags to my mind ). I think we are all being both extended to our edges of narrative credibility, and, an ultra fine definition analysis A.I. tool is being used to profile us while under this assault. Meaning, we are both being intellectually stress tested AND the data is going straight into an A.I. super project.

Is Shane being employed in this in some way? I've honestly got no idea. What I DO think is a bit suspect, though, is the dual narrative scenario. I can imagine how that could be very interesting for the developer of the A.I. that's using all this feedback to gain the upper hand over us again. "Tell us 2 different lies and take our pick". Firstly, it conditions us or desensitises us to the instinctive sense that we are absorbing a lie as a truth narrative. Secondly it reveals which kind of lie we like the flavor of best. If there isn't a 'truth' anywhere in the mix, we don't have a gut instinct left to match stories with any more. It levels up the field of lies and makes it all the more artificially reproducible.

SO, is there good reason to be very very careful about the info that's floating around at the moment, and also to be very careful about our responses to it as well. ? Absolutely YES !

Is this Ruiner Blog an asset in what appears to be a very much upgraded assault on our intellects.................. you call it your way, I'll call it mine, but it's a tough call.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I know exactly what you mean, Bill.

I recall, in this life, an episode when I was seventeen. I was investigating and dabbling in ESP (extra-sensory perception). I thought I started receiving coded messages from an unknown source. They were coded because they were short and ambiguous. It started with this voice stating I'd been noticed (remember, I was working on ESP). A few weeks later the voice said there were three levels to mastery. A few weeks later the voice was back stating I was at level two now. I should clarify that since I was deep into my research I was aware of the fact that I might be causing these episodes myself, kinda wishing them into being.

Maybe a few months later, after much success with ESP, amulets and spells the voice was back. It stated I was on the verge of level three. That all I needed to do was reach across the void of improbability, and from there reach back. I understood that as meaning: leave your doubts behind, clear yourself of limitations imposed on you by lesser selves and just simply impose your own will.

A picture flashed in my mind of what to do. Had I done it, I knew there would never be turning back, that my reality would change forever. But there was a portion of that code that bothered me - there was an undercurrent of superiority, of class and hierarchy that did not sit well with me, but I did not know why. Then it dawned on me, "Lesser selves?". There are no lesser selves in my world. We are all human - at the same level of consciousness. Sometimes we are sentient, sometimes less so. So I rejected the voice and refused the test. I dropped my study of ESP that same day.

That episode was subjective. There was no proof, no tangible evidence to support any of my successes or to verify the voice in my head was other than my own. I admit I was sceptical from the beginning - was I making it all up? I don't think I did. But I think I might have knocked on the wrong door. That is the feeling I had. Forty years later I still feel the same way. I remember that feeling and whenever I have felt the same I have always associated it as a warning, not necessarily of danger but that something is up and to pay attention.

Was this episode real? It was real to me. It has shaped who I am and what I believe, even what I know. The reality of it impinges on everyone since it changed me. But did it happen or did it all take place inside my head? I guess the answer depends on what you believe. There are so many ways to take this that I'll just drop it.

For the record: I don't remember any past life events but I do sometimes remember future ones.

And Bill, you are a great investigator! That two dot thing - genius.

[sarah22]

Ok, so my question to the group is; if this is a psyop, what is the endgame here?

[ThePythonicCow]

Yes, I'm glad that you, Bill, are sticking to the point that there seems to be a second level of manipulation going on with the alternative scene.

I have no idea what to think of this particular issue you've raised here in this thread, but I'm also feeling a sense that the 'game' has been well and truly 'uped'.
Yes - the present control structures, political, economic, monetary and religious, that have in one variant or another been suitable for controlling humanity, in the form of "competing tribes on various sub-continents of one planet", for the last millenia or two, have reached their "sell-by" date.

Our technology and civilization capacity and resource needs are rapidly expanding to the level of a solar system. New political, economic, monetary and religious control structures are being formed from the ferment, and those who have been at the top of the control heap and who are desperate to remain there are striving mightily to form the new control structures, to maintain control over the rest of us, and to struggle for power amongst themselves.

A good part of what we're seeing here is the formation of a new religion, which like most such endeavors, is a rather messy affair that takes a few generations. By "religion" I mean "the commonly accepted explanations for that which lacks more mundane explanations allowed in public discourse."

[Bill Ryan]

.
On record here (my sincere thanks to Shane, who has just sent it to the mods): here's the original letter, not the version transcribed by Chloe from the radio show.







Dear Mr Green

As you've told me I don't have a heart many times you will understand that I could not face you. Didn't have the heart haha.

It appears you were right. But I had already resolved to end this life without your dramatic display.

You never changed. Still that 15 year old boy they gave to me. Just as green as you ever were. I though by now we would have found a way to break you.

Alas, you have thrived. No matter what you say you are not an indication of what they can do. They will break your bleeding heart. Watch my words come true.

But you have your chance. Your father left, your old friend is impotent and you are all fired up.

All of my best wishes, because my wishes are not equal to my belief. A belief I will not repeat now. I am trying to compose a pleasant goodbye to a beautiful man I love, even if he could never love me.

I do have a heart. You've just refused to see it. True to say, I never let you see it.

Which is not why I leave this life. This is not an act of love or compassion or understanding it is desperate and selfish and everything else you would expect from a symbol of worship and fear. The latticework is broken and cannot be repaired. The dark prince has no teeth. Then there's you.

So neither of us will have what we wanted. You will join me soon enough in a departure.

You memory is long but selective just as you say about others. Your eyes are open but bloodshot.

Following your failure, we will meet again. I promise you that.

So long Mr Green. I love you with the same fire you hate me. I always have.

[norman]

A good part of what we're seeing here is the formation of a new religion, which like most such endeavors, is a rather messy affair that takes a few generations. By "religion" I mean "the commonly accepted explanations for that which lacks more mundane explanations allowed in public discourse."



If I'm being utterly paranoid, I can even imagine that "they" created the entire "breakaway conspiracy theory world most of us here live in" deliberately to produce a free-from-the-old-structures mass of minds they could then use to model their ideas for future control structures with. They couldn't get anything like a realistic mind mass from us before we developed this 'out of the old box' way of thinking. We had to be brought up to speed where we were almost, at least, as savvy as they were, BUT, they had to get the operation done and over with before our numbers grew too great for them to control the ever ruling numbers game of using the bigger mass to control the lesser mass.

They NEEDED a mass of us to do our research and get up to speed ( ish ), and to become a community mind, but they also needed us to do it all as a significant minority of the total population.

The 'seat of the pants' dare devile dynamics of the way they have done all this is stunning. I just have to assume that some kind of artificial intelligence has been calling the shots from the get go.

[OmeyocaN777]

NO ONE really knows the Truth......
Not even the "dark" side or the "light" side
They exist beings in more higher dimensions that wait for us to find our harmony so they can invite us to their family.....
WAKE Up people and stop "fighting" each other
Everyone have one piece of puzzle....all together we can see the whole picture (inclunding the dark side)
I really enjoy hearing Shane And Simon....their side of story (i must confess i have with them many common opinions)
You Know What......????
The KEY is about Cooperation
Shane understood this, thats why he stands in the middle
Something that us the "light" family (i suppose) we have a long way to comprehend it
We are all ONE
Namaste

[samildamach]

There is a paper trail left behind in all things we do.you own a house buy a car see a doctor or dentist with out record.move money buy equipment .there would it seem in my mind plenty of evidence to verify that the elders excisted worked on there projects employed people owned property all which could verify the truth.the question is what is dangerous to reveal

[Cristi Copac]

the one thing that is most suspect is this. parents exist. what? yes they exist and have existed for 10 thousand years. they have life prolonging tools or methods. so cool. now after 1 month me is telling you that they are gone. they killed themselves. ??? so they lived for ten thousand years and now they killed themselves after 1 month after a very small number of people find out of their existence? these are not special times. they never were. every election , every revolution, every change , every war is followed by people with the line- "though times we live in". really? what about 100 years ago when some western countries had hunger and many many other problems ? what about 2000 years ago, what about 1000 years ago. death was a constant throughout history. the only thing that is criminal is that we were lied to. big time.

[Nasu]

I would like to thank Bill and the mod team for this excellent thread and exercise in discernment and transparency. And for keeping their minds open and not failing to do what must be done in the face of obvious discrepancies. Clearly, at this point, the jury is still out, one way or the other on Shane's material. If it turns out to all be the sham that many of us saw it as on day one, then so be it, it is what it is. To be fair though, he was always very clear about the fiction part....

Anyhoo, I don't blame Shane, so much as I blame Paul, who introduced me and the rest of us to this distraction!! Only kidding, Paul, I will follow you off the cliff one of these days! till then...x... N

[ThePythonicCow]

Anyhoo, I don't blame Shane, so much as I blame Paul, who introduced me and the rest of us to this distraction!! Only kidding, Paul, I will follow you off the cliff one of these days! till then...x... N
:) .

[sarah22]

"Ok, so my question to the group is; if this is a psyop, what is the endgame here?"

I wrote the above question and here are some of my thoughts around this. When I retell a story that is true, I doubt I tell it in exactly the same way each time, with the exact same words, phrases, and cadences. That doesn't mean it's not true. When I write, I don't always use the same style of writing or the same grammar- not because I am lying but because I am human, I was tired when I wrote that, I was trying to be eloquent when I wrote that, I was angry when I wrote that.... I understand the relevance of a linguistic fingerprint but after I spending way too many hours on this, I am coming around to the idea that it's possible that the minutia of Mr. Shane is being over analyzed and that simple possibility is, that much of what he is saying is true, even if some of the details aren't.

Would any of our e-mails/ conversations held over months or years, hold up to the scrutiny we are placing on what he has written/said? I don't think our casual and true, honest conversations if scrutinized over time would hold up. I think we all could be accused of lying. But changing our minds or mixing up details here and there happens over time and NOT because we are lying. Could Shane be lying? Sure, but that doesn't mean he is. One of the reasons some of the smaller details could be getting confused is that he is trying to make sure, as he is speaking, that he doesn't violate their disclosure agreements and inadvertently hurt his family, maybe? I want to point out here that I don't know Shane and I am not trying to stand up for him in any way, these are just my opinions.

I have just finished sending a PM to wonderful Bill and now as I write this, it will be obvious to Bill, if he is reading this, that I have come to a slightly different conclusion. When I look over Shane's posts, most of them feel true to me. After all this time spent on it, that is what I keep coming back to. Bill is right, "feeling something" is not proof of anything. Maybe I am being taken in and duped.

But for what purpose? I am a very small part of this community. I don't have a website or a blog. I rarely post and mostly just read when I visit here. I am grateful to have a place where I can write my thoughts when I want to and I appreciate reading others' opinions, especially opinions that are different than mine.

But if I am being duped, my opinion is not going to mean much here. I am not anyone important, so his blog sparking memories that put together missing pieces for me, is not going to affect many people and since I don't talk about this, it really won't. Maybe it's a long con game that will affect how I.. something.. in the future?! Maybe... ( Opps, I just typed three dots instead of two, I must be a liar! :) I know linguistic fingerprinting is a useful thing, I am making a joke here :) )

Finding those missing pieces sparked by his blog has not changed my opinions or my feelings about the importance and beauty of human life and the Earth, it has enhanced them. Beyond that, what has been relevant to me from his blog, has been very personal. So, if Shane and his blog were a psyop, what was the point? Thanks PA community for letting me think this out and write about it here.
Best, Sarah

[transiten]

Mercury just went direct today and will take some week to "regain speed" symbolically speaking. Disinformation runs rampant during the retrograde phase, information is missing, misunderstandings etc. A perfect time for this kind of investigation and "review" though.

I just happened to find this interview today but stopped listening since the diction of these guys was so blurry I often couldn't hear what they said. I scrolled down and found the transcription but when I was going to post a thanx I popped out of the thread? And then I ended up here.

My gutfeeling is this reptilian story is not my cup of tea.

[Nasu]

Came across this quote in my inbox, just now, thought it was interestingly coincidental, given the nature of this thread. I suppose it could be for Shane, or it could be for all of us, either way, I thought it had some merit:

“The easiest thing to be in the world is you. The most difficult thing to be is what other people want you to be. Don't let them put you in that position.”

― Leo Buscaglia

[Selkie]

...My gutfeeling is this reptilian story is not my cup of tea.

Precisely. Mine neither.

[Tangri]

If this is in fact fantasy and "The Ruiner" is just a character created by Shane then I wish he would stop beating around the bush and just say it.

This whole "it wasn't meant for Avalon" crap is ridiculous. If it truly was meant for your friends then email them. Fine you blogged it, then don't come onto Avalon and answer questions. The whole thing is wonky and makes little logical sense.

On another note: I was very skeptical and critical of both Shane and Corey when they first came out. In both cases many people (both mods and members) came out in support of these two. Most of it was character endorsement. Basically I felt my discernment and criticism was not wanted. So I quietly left the discussions. I personally think it is dangerous, in my eyes, group censorship. I didn't feel welcome to criticize or investigate in an open forum.

I'll admit I lurked both threads waiting for the sheet to hit the fan. /popcorn I'm greatful that the veil was finally lifted. I just hope we can be a little more careful in the future and not jump to support the next "big insider".

Granted the mods have to walk the fine line of giving people a safe place to disclose and vetting out the fakes. The mod team has to be very careful with their endorsements because like it or not there is a flock of followers that take their word as gospel.

Well said. Thank you, I wouldn't agree more

[Savannah]

I know exactly what you mean, Bill.

I recall, in this life, an episode when I was seventeen. I was investigating and dabbling in ESP (extra-sensory perception). I thought I started receiving coded messages from an unknown source. They were coded because they were short and ambiguous. It started with this voice stating I'd been noticed (remember, I was working on ESP). A few weeks later the voice said there were three levels to mastery. A few weeks later the voice was back stating I was at level two now. I should clarify that since I was deep into my research I was aware of the fact that I might be causing these episodes myself, kinda wishing them into being.

Maybe a few months later, after much success with ESP, amulets and spells the voice was back. It stated I was on the verge of level three. That all I needed to do was reach across the void of improbability, and from there reach back. I understood that as meaning: leave your doubts behind, clear yourself of limitations imposed on you by lesser selves and just simply impose your own will.

A picture flashed in my mind of what to do. Had I done it, I knew there would never be turning back, that my reality would change forever. But there was a portion of that code that bothered me - there was an undercurrent of superiority, of class and hierarchy that did not sit well with me, but I did not know why. Then it dawned on me, "Lesser selves?". There are no lesser selves in my world. We are all human - at the same level of consciousness. Sometimes we are sentient, sometimes less so. So I rejected the voice and refused the test. I dropped my study of ESP that same day.

That episode was subjective. There was no proof, no tangible evidence to support any of my successes or to verify the voice in my head was other than my own. I admit I was sceptical from the beginning - was I making it all up? I don't think I did. But I think I might have knocked on the wrong door. That is the feeling I had. Forty years later I still feel the same way. I remember that feeling and whenever I have felt the same I have always associated it as a warning, not necessarily of danger but that something is up and to pay attention.

Was this episode real? It was real to me. It has shaped who I am and what I believe, even what I know. The reality of it impinges on everyone since it changed me. But did it happen or did it all take place inside my head? I guess the answer depends on what you believe. There are so many ways to take this that I'll just drop it.

For the record: I don't remember any past life events but I do sometimes remember future ones.

And Bill, you are a great investigator! That two dot thing - genius.




You would enjoy "The Hungry Ghost", a great read about the traps that people fall into when they contact the Astral realm. Tom from Montalk.net sent it to me and I was very grateful. When I first started to channel and have out of body experiences I wish someone would have given me that book 25 years ago.

[ulli]

I have this hunch that this is all an experiment in collective consciousness manipulation and myth seeding.
When I first discovered the Wingmakers website back in 2000 and found my investigation into UFO/ET reality and government cover-up had been given an extra dimension, I was thrilled that whistle blower Dr. Anderson had come and told his story. Believed every word. Then came the great announcement that it was a myth.
Yet the effect it had had on my belief system and the subsequent changes in my own being I will never forget.
People's speculation about whether it was all truth or fiction was also a great eye opener, and even when it was disclosed that it had all been fiction, with an element of truth I like many others were ok with that.
Because the new paradigm is about what each of us believe, and how to go from there, when creating our future.

[Selkie]

If I may, it would seem that the purpose of Shane, Corey, Simon, Lash (and possibly others, although I have not been witness to them) has been the sowing of dragon's teeth,


The five survivors joined with Cadmus to found the city of Thebes. The classical legends of Cadmus and Jason have given rise to the phrase "to sow dragon's teeth." This is used as a metaphor to refer to doing something that has the effect of fomenting disputes.

(my emphasis)

[Selkie]

p.s. Peeps really ought to read When Prophecy Fails,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

http://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Leon-Festinger/dp/1614272905

No matter how you slice it, BELIEF is a bitch.

[ErtheVessel]

I'd like to add just a couple of points in the interest of discernment. I really don't know where I stand on Shane as I have not been following his blog that closely, so this is not an indictment on him, really, at all. Just some observations from life experience.

I have had the misfortune of dealing with a number of sociopaths in my life, mostly from several cults that I belonged to in years past. Yes, several - I am a slow learner and it took me a long time to find my way. But that is a story for another time.

Anyway, here are some things I gleaned about discernment in my adventures.

My first point is that people tell you who they are, always. If someone tells me, even jokingly, that he is out for my money, I must not pretend I did not hear this, no matter how nice he seems. Or, as in this case, if someone says to me that all he has just told me is fiction, I must not pretend I did not hear this - it is, in fact, probable that all he just told me is fiction.

The second point is that in order for any psyop to work, it must contain truth. All egregious lies are mostly truth, otherwise we would not be led astray.

The journey of fine tuning and enhancing one's discernment is incredibly important and powerful. I know from my own experience that to learn discernment in any given situation is to know one's own truth viscerally and absolutely.

[Bill Ryan]

I have just finished sending a PM to wonderful Bill and now as I write this, it will be obvious to Bill, if he is reading this, that I have come to a slightly different conclusion.

Well, thank you, wonderful sarah22! :heart:

:)


So, if Shane and his blog were a psyop, what was the point? Thanks PA community for letting me think this out and write about it here.


Okay, here we go.

Imagine this scenario:

There's a new program, designed to discredit not only the alternative community, but as many researchers and whistleblowers as possible.

In such a program, targeted, susceptible individuals (maybe those already known to them because they actually have been in a program), are remotely influenced to come out with a range of startling material that they totally believe.

Andy Basiago was one of the very first. As some of you know, I talked to him on the phone in Feb 2007, for four hours, and was the first person to do so. He NEVER ONCE MADE ANY REFERENCE TO MARS. It was all about the teleportation experiments he was part of as a child, which I think were real. All his memories about Mars have been 'retrieved' since then. But he never mentions that.

Similarly, Corey Goode knew barely ANYTHING that he's talking about now at the time of his first interview with Christine just over a year ago, which I edited personally. I listened to every scrap of audio, published or not, that was recorded at his house in two different conversations.

What he's saying now is all new, since then (from whatever source). But that's not mentioned, either.

Other recent witnesses may be in the same boat. Randy Cramer, for one. Maybe many more.

The 'Flat Earth' sincere-belief program, which seems to be currently active as well, may be a 'cousin' of this. The timing actually all fits.

A good friend of mine, an excellent researcher who specializes in sovereignty and global finance, wrote to me a few weeks ago asking me privately if I thought the Earth might really be flat. I could barely believe it. This guy was very smart.

But suddenly, overnight, he was [nearly] buying into something that was quite the opposite of smart. It was like he was under a spell. My friendly but very detailed reply to him may have snapped him out of it. :)

It's just like a new remote-influencing technology got perfected, and is now being rolled out.

If a false-memory-retrieval program is active on a number of targets, and I'm anywhere near close, the prediction to test the hypothesis is that we'll see more where this came from.

More apparently sincere people (Andy Basiago is the nicest person, who totally believes his own claims) will come forward with extreme, unverifiable material. Corey Goode has even been publicly encouraging that. (Calling others to step forward, that is. Words to trigger people in the same program, anyone?)

It's hard to see real-world connections here between some of the players. But supposing this was all orchestrated at a higher, mind-control level (of some kind). If I were a black-ops strategist, I would actually deploy TWO programs targeting certain selected individuals. They go in co-ordinated harness:


The 'whistleblowers' who could come out with ridiculous, astonishing information.
Those who would be sure to support them in getting their stories out.

[Tangri]

I have a question to Paul.

What did pull you Ruinner's blog at first? What was the encouragement source for your first visit? (a friend's advice?)

(This is just for research purpose)

[Cristi Copac]

although i found some inconsistencies like the parents suicide i really like the mythology that shane is proposing. by not depending on these sources like you depend on food or on nature or on real materialistic proof you allow yourself to imagine and link pieces together when you see something happening in real life. imagination is the best tool that we have in solving problems that never were. but it is what it is . mythology. when we will see with the eyes we will consider it fact. but some things are better to be left alone until you become strong enough to face them.
meanwhile here is the proof that i have regarding the paranormal
1 Bob Lazar story
2 Phil Schneider bringing stones that were caused by nuclear debree( millions of years old).
3 normal people seeing ghosts now and through history. many , many people.
4 independent people from all around the world mentioning the same abduction stories - no relationship with one another or with the ufo material althoghether before the abductions for many of them
5 vaccines are very damaging to human health.
6 there have always been a cure not just for cancer but for all the diseases on the planet. life expectancy is a statistic which is invented as a concept and manipulated. everywhere you go at least in the western world people die and are much more sicker than previsious generations. health is going down not up so how come the life expectancy has risen? plus the genetic malformations which have gone up.
7 in the last months 11 alternative doctors were killed and many others had bicycle accidents (deadly). doctor gerson was killed with arsenic in his coffee in the 50's.
8 there is a report that also in the last decade 250 scientists died or were killed . most from microbiology.
9 there is a plan to distroy the white race and we have seen it in action. not just the white race but every people that have dignity, morals, values; are humanistic and honest in the same time. it is the world of the mafia who my guess is that it is allowed to exist by the bigger criminals which usually dress in suits. if we were self governing mafia would have been annihilated in 1 year tops in the whole world. but who wants a world were we read newspapers at a coffee and joke and prepare for the party for tonight? who wants a world with trust amongst people and a fair competition but not a humiliating one? who the ... wants an easy and fruitfull life in areas that grow us, our bodies, our minds, our society, our knowledge. i mean who? :D isn't it better to have an action life and death movie every day? it's much more fun like that!





10 double helix snake. this symbol is from ancient times (of medicine) and it's very similar with dna. and eve was made from the bones of adam says the bible. weird at first but when you know now that the bone marrow contains a lot of stem cells then you start connecting the dots with what ruiner says, what lacerta says and what many others say. it's here where you see the mythology unfolding in front of you and becomes reality . more data you collect more belief you have in it.

[ThePythonicCow]

Granted the mods have to walk the fine line of giving people a safe place to disclose and vetting out the fakes. The mod team has to be very careful with their endorsements because like it or not there is a flock of followers that take their word as gospel.
Aha - I can help fix that! Time for me to start endorsing some weirdos channeling evil cows :).

[norman]

The 'whistleblowers' who could come out with ridiculous, astonishing information.
Those who would be sure to support them in getting their stories out.





Ok, that's quite possibly a doable technology, for all I know. But, what would be the objective goal of doing so much of this?

Is it that they are still fighting truther fires, or is it that they are trying to build memes in our creation of a future, or what?

As I've said earlier, I think there is a harvesting for A.I. going on in all this.

At the very least.... this could be a hollywood company working on the mother of all debunking reality TV shows on earth. ;)

[Valley]

This is quite a relief for me to see that Bill & Staff are doing a fine job in investigation and discernment on this matter. My feelings on this 'Ruiner' material haven't changed since first looking at it... A big distraction. ...But, a good lesson learned for all of us, I would think... in that we can reflect back and look at how we all treated each other when we had differing views/opinions on this subject. This is what I feel is important here... how we act towards each other when faced with differing/opposing opinions/viewpoints/perspectives. Are we learning to get along better without feeling the need to ridicule, attack, or make fun of others for their alternate or unpopular views? We shall see...

Love & Respect... ;)

[ThePythonicCow]

A good part of what we're seeing here is the formation of a new religion


I have this hunch that this is all an experiment in collective consciousness manipulation and myth seeding.

Agreed :).

[transiten]

This is quite a relief for me to see that Bill & Staff are doing a fine job in investigation and discernment on this matter. My feelings on this 'Ruiner' material haven't changed since first looking at it... A big distraction. ...But, a good lesson learned for all of us, I would think... in that we can reflect back and look at how we all treated each other when we had differing views/opinions on this subject. This is what I feel is important here... how we act towards each other when faced with differing/opposing opinions/viewpoints/perspectives. Are we learning to get along better without feeling the need to ridicule, attack, or make fun of others for their alternate or unpopular views? We shall see...

Love & Respect... ;)

Totally agree and think I was a bit harsh on you in the Lennon thread :sorry:

[ThePythonicCow]

I have a question to Paul.

What did pull you Ruinner's blog at first? What was the encouragement source for your first visit? (a friend's advice?)

(This is just for research purpose)
Reports came in to me from others on the moderators team of TheRuiner's new blog, early this year (2105), with enough interesting detail to get me looking more closely.

[Selkie]

Aha - I can help fix that! Time for me to start endorsing some weirdos channeling evil cows :).

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/43/b8/2a/43b82a99492560946135668d00e6af3a.jpg

[3(C)+me]

Yes, I do remember Shane saying something to the effect this is just a story, a fiction. I did not feel the pressure of having to take it all in as a truth.
I never read his blog, no interest, but his interviews were compelling, I must admit.
The thing is we well probably never know what is true and what is fabricated for a certain response. It does not appear that Shane will clarify these things for us, so we are left with speculation on this particular person and his motivations. I do appreciate your approach to this issue Bill, because I do not think we need to make him out to the great devil in order to discuss this and maybe come to some kind of mutual understanding.

Paul said something about the church and the possibility rolling out a new religion or new paradigm. The alien question has got to be in there somewhere because their church is falling apart, as is their Gods, which we now know are a little crazy, I think mentally ill would be the proper diagnosis. This religion (as are most of the other main religions) was a creation of annunaki, and it is going to be a pile of ash soon, so they have to roll something else out.
I see so many reversals nowadays it is not funny.
AI is for me the wildcard I can't seem to wrap my brain around how that fits in but I do think it does.
Is it another animal all together apart from the usual suspects, what is agenda besides wanting to make up into little cyborgs, taking us over that way.
Is that the main goal, taking up over via the body so they can live in us and control us that way.
Maybe Shane, if he was being handled by someone one was brought out to see how we would react so they can gauge where we are to make their next move based on our response.
This is not a sprint but a marathon, and as such, we have to pace ourselves so we don't burn out way before the finish line. And what and where is the finish line, I have no idea.

[Innocent Warrior]

I really miss Rachels (our moderators) signature where she says "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling" I really do.

Me too actually, so I put it back in. :flower:

[sarah22]

I have just finished sending a PM to wonderful Bill and now as I write this, it will be obvious to Bill, if he is reading this, that I have come to a slightly different conclusion.

Well, thank you, wonderful sarah22! :heart:

:)


So, if Shane and his blog were a psyop, what was the point? Thanks PA community for letting me think this out and write about it here.


Okay, here we go.

Imagine this scenario:

There's a new program, designed to discredit not only the alternative community, but as many researchers and whistleblowers as possible.

In such a program, targeted, susceptible individuals (maybe those already known to them because they actually have been in a program), are remotely influenced to come out with a range of startling material that they totally believe.

Andy Basiago was one of the very first. As some of you know, I talked to him on the phone in Feb 2007, for four hours, and was the first person to do so. He NEVER ONCE MADE ANY REFERENCE TO MARS. It was all about the teleportation experiments he was part of as a child, which I think were real. All his memories about Mars have been 'retrieved' since then. But he never mentions that.

Similarly, Corey Goode knew barely ANYTHING that he's talking about now at the time of his first interview with Christine just over a year ago, which I edited personally. I listened to every scrap of audio, published or not, that was recorded at his house in two different conversations.

What he's saying now is all new, since then (from whatever source). But that's not mentioned, either.

Other recent witnesses may be in the same boat. Randy Cramer, for one. Maybe many more.

The 'Flat Earth' sincere-belief program, which seems to be currently active as well, may be a 'cousin' of this. The timing actually all fits.

A good friend of mine, an excellent researcher who specializes in sovereignty and global finance, wrote to me a few weeks ago asking me privately if I thought the Earth might really be flat. I could barely believe it. This guy was very smart.

But suddenly, overnight, he was [nearly] buying into something that was quite the opposite of smart. It was like he was under a spell. My friendly but very detailed reply to him may have snapped him out of it. :)

It's just like a new remote-influencing technology got perfected, and is now being rolled out.

If a false-memory-retrieval program is active on a number of targets, and I'm anywhere near close, the prediction to test the hypothesis is that we'll see more where this came from.

More apparently sincere people (Andy Basiago is the nicest person, who totally believes his own claims) will come forward with extreme, unverifiable material. Corey Goode has even been publicly encouraging that. (Calling others to step forward, that is. Words to trigger people in the same program, anyone?)

It's hard to see real-world connections here between some of the players. But supposing this was all orchestrated at a higher, mind-control level (of some kind). If I were a black-ops strategist, I would actually deploy TWO programs targeting certain selected individuals. They go in co-ordinated harness:


The 'whistleblowers' who could come out with ridiculous, astonishing information.
Those who would be sure to support them in getting their stories out.


Very good points here, thanks so much for this, Bill. So funny, the flat earth and Basgio's Mars stories were two things I haven't believed in at all... I will definitely look deeper into this and keep an eye out for "more where this came from." Thank you :) :)

[mosquito]

The 'Flat Earth' sincere-belief program, which seems to be currently active as well, may be a 'cousin' of this. The timing actually all fits.



Agreed.

I was totally flabergasted by the appearance of this on the forum, and a few months ago I was listening to an interview with Zen Gardner who, lo and behold, announced that the flat Earth theory was well worth a look ! Following my initial bemusement that someone like Zen could even begin to be taken in by this nonsense (and it IS nonsense, the "researcher" most sited is very easily rebutted), my conclusion was that it has to be part of a concerted disinfo campaign. What better way to discredit the alternative media ?

As for "The Ruiner", I maintain my postion on the fence, observing. Thanks for being so transparent about this Bill.

[Caliban]

My first point is that people tell you who they are, always. If someone tells me, even jokingly, that he is out for my money, I must not pretend I did not hear this, no matter how nice he seems. Or, as in this case, if someone says to me that all he has just told me is fiction, I must not pretend I did not hear this - it is, in fact, probable that all he just told me is fiction.

I love that ErtheVessel. I know exactly what you mean. Most of us are very easy to fool--not because we're stupid but because we're too good! and we want to trust too easily. We mustn't overlook anything someone tells us, it all has relevance.



The journey of fine tuning and enhancing one's discernment is incredibly important and powerful. I know from my own experience that to learn discernment in any given situation is to know one's own truth viscerally and absolutely.

And it takes work to do such fine tuning. But you do get better and better. Patience and listening are the keys. And trusting your own intuitions. And, as you say, clarity on one's own intentions and desires. Wise words, indeed...

[A Voice from the Mountains]

This may or may not make peoples' lives easier around here: http://www.philocomp.net/humanities/signature.htm

It's stylometric analysis software. Meaning you load multiple texts in there from multiple known authors, and the the longer the text samples the more accurate the comparison will be.

After you've loaded the known authors, you load a text by an unknown author ("Cassandra") in this case and it will analyze the text based on word lengths, sentence lengths, etc. and show which author(s) the unknown text most closely matches.

There is more sophisticated software for Linux but it's not as user friendly.

Also I should point out that this stuff is not foolproof. It's possible to imitate someone else's posting style though, or to change one's own style intentionally. But if "Cassandra's letter" is a close match to the bulk of the text on Shane's blog then that is not something that is determined by who transcribed it. That is telling about the author himself/herself.

[quiltinggrandma]

My thanks to bill for stepping in at the exact ,,right moment.You had to allow us to take our lumps,,but in the most caring way.And i took my lumps,,,hook ,line,and sinker.But my lesson is to learn from the experience,and move on.To me,,words are such big things and i have trouble with self expression.

[Debra]

This may or may not make peoples' lives easier around here: http://www.philocomp.net/humanities/signature.htm

It's stylometric analysis software. Meaning you load multiple texts in there from multiple known authors, and the the longer the text samples the more accurate the comparison will be.

After you've loaded the known authors, you load a text by an unknown author ("Cassandra") in this case and it will analyze the text based on word lengths, sentence lengths, etc. and show which author(s) the unknown text most closely matches.

There is more sophisticated software for Linux but it's not as user friendly.

Also I should point out that this stuff is not foolproof. It's possible to imitate someone else's posting style though, or to change one's own style intentionally. But if "Cassandra's letter" is a close match to the bulk of the text on Shane's blog then that is not something that is determined by who transcribed it. That is telling about the author himself/herself.

I am not surprised that we have this technology bsbray. It is a filter to run information through, which I think is handy, however does it capture and analyse through further filters of perceptions and readings from cultural, ideological, psychological contexts?

From the position of a semiotician (that which I like to utilise in the pursuit of qualitative enquiry) I feel that we must, as researchers, take strongly into account and be clean about who we are as individual researchers, what questions we find ourselves asking and why? For what purpose, who benefits ? Who is the person or people behind the research is fundamentally important to bring to the data as well, indeed to consider as data points in themselves.

In the case of pursuing questions about the raw data (that which has sprung from The Ruiner ..) we also have to capture and question all the available data - and the sources of that information - that are participating in this enquiry.

And that includes me, you and everyone who has cared to engage in the conversation.

That does my head in but as researchers we are participants as well.

[Constance]

I really miss Rachels (our moderators) signature where she says "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling" I really do.

Me too actually, so I put it back in. :flower:

:bearhug: Yay! :heart:

[Innocent Warrior]

This may or may not make peoples' lives easier around here: http://www.philocomp.net/humanities/signature.htm

It's stylometric analysis software. Meaning you load multiple texts in there from multiple known authors, and the the longer the text samples the more accurate the comparison will be.

After you've loaded the known authors, you load a text by an unknown author ("Cassandra") in this case and it will analyze the text based on word lengths, sentence lengths, etc. and show which author(s) the unknown text most closely matches.

There is more sophisticated software for Linux but it's not as user friendly.

Also I should point out that this stuff is not foolproof. It's possible to imitate someone else's posting style though, or to change one's own style intentionally. But if "Cassandra's letter" is a close match to the bulk of the text on Shane's blog then that is not something that is determined by who transcribed it. That is telling about the author himself/herself.

Have you given this version a trial? I need to split my mac and load Windows before I can try it and would like to know if it's worth the trouble. Or I can look for a mac version.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I am not surprised that we have this technology bsbray. It is a filter to run information through, which I think is handy, however does it capture and analyse through further filters of perceptions and readings from cultural, ideological, psychological contexts?

No, it does not. At least not this particular piece of software. The software for Linux is capable of loading custom parameters for analysis that are only limited by a programmer's imagination, but I'm not aware of what all exactly is available at the moment and that piece of software is not that user friendly.

However if you get a clean match using just the software I posted, it is something very difficult to argue with. You have statistical improbabilities that out of, say, 10 authors you might load data for, if "Cassandra's letter" most closely matches Shane's writing style by the parameters, you've got a 10% chance of that simply being coincidence. Load 20 known authors for reference and now you've got a 5% chance of randomly lining up with Shane's writing style. And I don't care how close of friends Shane claims to have been with this supposedly ancient vampire woman, even married couples don't merge writing styles.

As far as looking at more human aspects of the text, like, for example, the amount of dramatic sarcasm, it matches Shane's writing style on his blog totally. I used to read a lot of classics, which are of course fiction. Non-fiction is my favorite stuff to read, especially history, but I love a good piece of literature too. Characters in good fictional novels have tones, personalities, and they really seem to come to live. The stuff posted on Shane's blog is oozing with sarcasm, half-veiled references to mundane things in the alternative community (no doubt as an attempt at dramatic effect) and the power-play of ego you'd expect from a video game story line where the hero main character has to assert his will by blasting his way to victory. So is the letter of "Cassandra," all the "ha ha" stuff being a case in point. What kind of grown adult goes around telling people how wrong they have it and immaturely interjecting "ha ha"? Let alone some ancient vampire woman who has supposedly lived through many centuries.


Who is the person or people behind the research is fundamentally important to bring to the data as well, indeed to consider as data points in themselves.

The beauty of using a piece of computer software (ie stylometry analysis software) is that it doesn't care who you are or what people think of you. It has sets of data. It compares. It displays results. It is not foolproof but like I said before, if you hit a match, out of even just 10 authors, you have something to think long and hard about if you take Shane's work seriously.

[DNA]

I'd like to add just a couple of points in the interest of discernment. I really don't know where I stand on Shane as I have not been following his blog that closely, so this is not an indictment on him, really, at all. Just some observations from life experience.

I have had the misfortune of dealing with a number of sociopaths in my life, mostly from several cults that I belonged to in years past. Yes, several - I am a slow learner and it took me a long time to find my way. But that is a story for another time.

My point is this: There are some things I gleaned about discernment in my adventures.

My first point is that people tell you who they are, always. If someone tells me, even jokingly, that he is out for my money, I must not pretend I did not hear this, no matter how nice he seems. Or, as in this case, if someone says to me that all he has just told me is fiction, I must not pretend I did not hear this - it is, in fact, probable that all he just told me is fiction.

The second point is that in order for any psyop to work, it must contain truth. All egregious lies are mostly truth, otherwise we would not be led astray.

The journey of fine tuning and enhancing one's discernment is incredibly important and powerful. I know from my own experience that to learn discernment in any given situation is to know one's own truth viscerally and absolutely.

Really nice post.
I have a friend who investigates parasitic entities and their attachments to humans.
He had said on numerous occasions that Vampires for the most part will tell you they are a Vampire, you just have to listen and not ignore the statement when they tell it.
Your post struck a chord with me and sang in vibrato with my friends statement here. :thumbsup:

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Have you given this version a trial? I need to split my mac and load Windows before I can try it and would like to know if it's worth the trouble. Or I can look for a mac version.

I don't know much about Macs but I'm playing with it a little on Linux. It comes with text from US founding fathers Jay, Madison, Hammad and Hamilton. I loaded about 6500 words of Shane's text from his blog into it and also the Cassandra letter and then compared everyone. Shane's text shows matches with the Cassandra letter already but this is hardly a fair comparison considering that the other 4 guys wrote over 200 years ago. So until I have a bunch of text from other contemporary sources to compare "Cassandra" against then all of that doesn't mean much.

I'm sure there are plenty of tech savvy people around here that can also play around with this software and see what they get.

[Cristi Copac]

i want to address an issue here. the one where ruiner and cassandra speak alike. well isn't it possible that the people in the know speak alike? people with the same education speak alike? he was 15 when he was introduced to cassandra in order to be her coven. i mean if you don't take into consideration this piece of info then your arguments are weaker. he might even have a romance with her. and usually the most powerful imposes himself on the weaker one. in the plot of a movie in order to be good i go along with the storyline and not my own.

and what movie the ruiner is proposing is a very good one . it explains the rest of the movies i've seen.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=31510&cid=1&stc=1

[Morbid]

i personally find his account of truth/fiction as genuine. im sure there are lots of beings above us who rightfully own a certain opinion.
i could only pick on the fact that Shane states that anu left the planet, Simon though claims that he is trapped on earth due to not enough large portals avaliable at the moment. to be honest, it doesnt matter who is right or wrong. its clear that their heart is in the right place.

[Robin]

Sigh...


The Philosopher
Heather Ober
*Based on Plato's Allegory of the Cave

Numb fists with bloody wrists
chained to crumbling walls.
Glazed eyes that never spy
a single truth or fault.
Dim light impairing sight
in spaces dark and shallow.
Stone walls where lies are scrawled
by murky phantom shadows.

One breaks free on frail knees
stiffened by disuse,
to leave behind the dumb and blind
who welcome this abuse.
He climbs in pain against the grain
toward a distant light.
With bloodied hands, he finally stands,
exhausting all his might.

Dazed at first, he's cursed by thirst
beneath the blazing sky.
The sun is bright and plunders sight
from eyes too dry to cry.
Lesions crust as eyes adjust
to find a foreign land
with greenest grass and sea like glass
caressing strips of sand.

He stands amazed before this maze
of truths he's never seen
and vows to save those in the cave
whose ignorance demeans.
When he returns, his words are spurned
by those chained to the wall.
They have no will to brave that hill
or risk the chance to fall.

He cannot go back to this show
of living shadowed lies.
Now that he knows the truth below,
he needs the open skies.
And so he climbs to search, to find
the knowledge that he craves.
No more a slave to the dark cave.
He's left that mindless grave.

[Johnny]

I have a question to Paul.

What did pull you Ruinner's blog at first? What was the encouragement source for your first visit? (a friend's advice?)

(This is just for research purpose)

Reports came in to me from others on the moderators team of TheRuiner's new blog, early this year (2105), with enough interesting detail to get me looking more closely.


early this year (2105)

Where the heck are you Paul ??? he he !!

Johnny :)

[Ultima Thule]

This mod gig sure seems an extended period to Paul!
:focus:

UT

[araucaria]

Textual analysis (post #1) is one way to go, for sure, but I would not expect to peel through that onion and find a kernel of truth after flaking off the constituent layers of what would have to be fiction to some degree. Another way is comparative analysis, an example of which is given below. It is in the nature of the exercise to appear to go way off-topic, but I assure you it does not.

Switching metaphors, we are putting together the pieces of a puzzle. Our notion of truth is not the outcome of completing the puzzle: it is the work surface on which we do it. It may be too cluttered, but maybe we are losing sight of this basic underlying reality precisely because of the number of pieces falling into place. Yet it is the solid furniture on which we can rest our elbows as we pore over the wafer-thin fiction we construct upon it. However, the problem is furthered complicated because this is not a new puzzle just out of the wrapper; it is from a very ancient box containing pieces from various different (already incomplete) puzzles that won’t go together however hard we try – like having a lot of blue sky and yet quite a few stormclouds as well. The perfection of completion is the one aspect of truth that disappears like the table top under the puzzle. If you want to get back to that perfection, you should really be putting the pieces back in the box. If you want to keep on playing, you need to stop getting frustrated at the limits placed on the game. There is a struggle to achieve a consensus over which puzzle picture we are constructing together. But whether blue-sky or stormclouds, it is nonetheless a wafer-thin fiction constructed upon the solid base of truth. What I mean by fiction here, then, is not total nonsense with no basis in reality. It is ideally thoroughly based in reality: its own reality as fiction. If we are to achieve consensus, it has to be coherent, self-consistent, which brings it into contact with truth, just as the right puzzle piece sits firmly on the table and the bad fit sticks up. So in a very real sense, the puzzle pieces are us individuals, rather than facts out there. In other words, if it is truth you’re after, you need to get on with your entourage.

As I write, I am listening on the radio to a discussion of the clash between two incompatible musical maestros, the romantic conductor Leonard Bernstein and the baroque pianist Glenn Gould, playing a Brahms concerto together, which was preceded by a remarkable, possibly unprecedented disclaimer from Bernstein. Listen to the first couple of minutes of this video:

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvWPM783TOE)
SvWPM783TOE


The actual performance was by no means a disaster, but proved something of a benchmark interpretation for future generations. The performance has survived, while the disclaimer now seems outdated and over the top. What these two men achieved together is something we are all doing together on an incomparably vaster scale. Such contrasts are like the potential difference that allows electric current to flow: the greater the potential difference, the more energy flows. We are in a period of extreme contrasts and high tension or energy flow. These are good times to be truly alive if you can take it, but so will be the placid contrasting continuation that is bound to follow, like a slow movement following a fast one.

With the above in mind, regarding Cassandra’s letter, I would just add the following to what has already been said.
If Shane is to be believed – which would be in character – as not being the author, then we are dealing with some form of pastiche. Pastiche is the opposite of plagiarism. Where plagiarism merely changes the author of the material for a basically nefarious purpose, altering (one aspect of) the form without changing the content, pastiche alters the content without changing the form. The purpose is less easy to ascertain. It may be that, as suggested earlier, Cassandra is speaking like Shane because he is who she learnt or practised her English with – just as if you learn English from a Chinese, you might have trouble with your ‘r’ sounds. That would be an innocent explanation. Alternatively it might be hostile: a deliberate attempt to incriminate Shane, which might be in character for Cassandra. Shane says it’s Cassandra, Avalon says it’s Shane: an interesting stand-off or stalemate (rather like the gun control debate in the US (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85689-Another-mass-shooting-in-the-US-Umpqua-Community-College-Oregon&p=1008270&viewfull=1#post1008270)). Or again, it might very well be somewhere in between, in the order of a critique, a kind of love-hate affair or unrequited love. This is in line with the content of the second message, and with Shane’s indication that she is mocking him.

With pastiche, you have two layers of authorship where neither the aim nor the effect is necessarily deceitful; we are talking about plausibility. Let me illustrate this with an example. This is the announced long seemingly off-topic detour; please bear with me, as it comes back to the subject at hand in an unexpected way.

In Time Regained, the final volume of In Search of Lost Time,Marcel Proust has his narrator read a couple of pages purportedly from the Journal of the Goncourt brothers, as a budding author with no self-belief admiring the “Prestige of Literature”. Both authorships are given a degree of plausibility. Hence the writer mentions someone calling him M. de Goncourt, and the style and content is more like the Goncourts’ than Proust’s: in other words effective pastiche. On the other hand, Proust has replaced de Goncourt’s real-life high society people with the characters of his own novel, so he is not trying to deceive anyone with a forgery, still less pass off someone else’s work for his own. (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300691.txt search for “Goncourt”)

So what is going on here? He is establishing a critical distance between himself and his eminent fellow writers; only “he” is a dual entity: the author and his narrator. The narrator looks up to the Goncourts as getting a lot more interesting material out of the same people he himself finds uninspiring, and bemoans his lack of talent and continuing writer’s block. Proust himself, although not yet an established author, is saying something very different. He is saying, if this is the finest literature currently available, then if I can produce more of the same, I can probably do better as well; in other words, this is the superficial treatment of my own material that you would get from these guys; now dig down and work out what I am saying that is much deeper.

That deeper substance is the very notion of “Time Regained”, which is achieved at the end of the novel, when the narrator is about to start writing the book that the author has just completed. The reader’s process involves following the unification of these two entities separated only by time, the slow transformation of the experiencer (the narrator) into the researcher/reporter (the author). Notice how the former is a fictional version of the latter, the real-life figure you could meet and talk with. At this particularly crucial stage, you have the experiencer’s perspective on his reality about to change. He feels inferior upon observing a disconnect between the literary establishment figure’s mainstream version of reality, where nobility will express noble thoughts, and his own experience; for, as an outsider who has ingratiated himself with high society, he knows that a princess or a duke can talk nonsense, and also that a nobody can compose the sublimest music. Only when he finds the self-belief to find his own story superior to the mainstream version can he take the step of disclosure that turns him into a writer. What you have with this pastiche is his future self, the author of his own book, indulging in this inferior literary form that imitates a style, in order to show how a supposedly superior literary form misrepresents facts by glorifying an elite. Hence the stepping-stone between the two figures is a tiny deceit: the narrator, who in the fiction has to be taken in by the pastiche, actually is not taken in, but leaves us to work that one out for ourselves. This is how and when he steps into the real-life shoes of the author: in this real-life world, he knows it is pastiche, because… he wrote it himself. You then have the paradox whereby the step from fiction to “fact” involves a dose of fiction, “fact” being the next layer of fiction. Fact and fiction are inextricably intertwined, and it is all truth.

Hence, the deeper meaning of Proust versus de Goncourt is that What the Duchess Said is a not only a superficial view of reality, it is distorted as well. The deeper, truer, view would be “Who I am/was/am becoming, growing from a nobody with an experience that remains virtual until expressed into a somebody with a powerful voice transcending time”.

Which brings me back to Shane. Back when we only had TheRuiner, I posted this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81805-The-Blog-of-The-Ruiner-Inside-the-Illuminati-Mind&p=956730&viewfull=1#post956730). Since then, we have witnessed a fictional narrator beginning to morph into a real author: Shane, whose unverifiable experiences are solidifying into a more or less internally consistent narrative. We can apply to Shane what we would like to be able to apply to ourselves: quoting from above, “The deeper, truer, view would be ‘Who I am/was/am becoming, growing from a nobody with an experience that remains virtual until expressed into a somebody with a powerful voice transcending time’”. That is the overall edifying lesson I take from this whole episode, whatever the Duchess said or did. I am not interested in what duchesses or King Anus or other self-important people have to say, whatever the timescale. They have been hogging the floor for far too long as it is: that in fact is the problem.

Now take the Cassandra letter: is it reverse pastiche (Cassandra writing like Shane), or self-pastiche (Shane writing as Cassandra writing like Shane)? The answer – not the unverifiable objective reality but the operative working hypothesis – would have to be: “Both, now deal with the paradox”. Simple, verifiable, univocal truth is in limited supply. Shane can be super-nice at all times, and still leave questions unanswered, indulge in a little fiction to move forward our big fiction. Where is the harm in that? St Theresa of Lisieux reports in her posthumous autobiography how she pretended to like another nun whom she disliked quite intensely. Is this saintliness, or perhaps simply an innocent everyday deceit that is actually just a nice person’s way of being nice by being nice in order to smooth over certain interpersonal difficulties for the greater good? Likewise, is Shane’s niceness nicely nice niceness (i.e. integrity) or is it just a wafer-thin veneer over something else? That is the only worthwhile question in my opinion. And I don't think picking holes in his story is the best way to find the answer.


It takes far more skill and wisdom to assemble a synthesis than to pick holes in someone else's honest hard work.

The ultimate message may be the corniest of all: “Just be nice; and if it doesn’t come naturally, just fake it until it does!” You can smile because you feel happy, but equally (the actor’s trick) you can smile until you feel happy. :)

[DePortugal]

Is there any chance we could get a similar summation of what the Mod team discovered about the accuracy/inaccuracy of Simon Parkes' information .............................

... In Simon's case, I'm not competent to do that, and I don't think the mods are... I'm just not familiar enough with what he's stated on record, and I don't think the others are.



Bill, thank you so much for being so sincere and a profound thinker and also for giving such a devastating blow on Ignorance.

[ulli]

Comedian Andy Kaufman keeps popping into my mind while reading these posts re. Shane and Cassandra, especially after reading araucaria's post.
The identification of a writer and the characters they write about is something worth looking into, as is the case with actors and the parts they play. If repeated often enough the original identity goes through a shift until it is difficult to recall who is who.
I once knew an actor who appeared in the original musical Hair, and during a particularly difficult rehearsal Rudolph Nureyev walked into the empty auditorium, and after confessing to him later that he couldn't do the part Nureyev said to him: "Then you must PRETEND!"

[Bill Ryan]

As I write, I am listening on the radio to a discussion of the clash between two incompatible musical maestros, the romantic conductor Leonard Bernstein and the baroque pianist Glenn Gould, playing a Brahms concerto together, which was preceded by a remarkable, possibly unprecedented disclaimer from Bernstein. Listen to the first couple of minutes of this video:

Wow. Here's that extract. Do listen... it's worth it. (4 mins, 2 Mb):

http://projectavalon.net/Leonard_Bernsteins_disclimer_about_Glenn_Goulds_Brahms_Concerto.mp3

An example to us all of dignified magnanimity. Highly impressive, and to be remembered.



Textual analysis (post #1) is one way to go, for sure, but I would not expect to peel through that onion and find a kernel of truth after flaking off the constituent layers of what would have to be fiction to some degree.

Yes. Textual analysis is NOT the point here... it was merely the entry point for a bunch of questions. I was really sharing the mods' journey of investigation (and have yet to share a little more).

And, as per my post #63 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008519&viewfull=1#post1008519), which I think was maybe a very important one (and I've never seen anything like that posted in the alternative media) — this is NOT really about Shane, who is a most likable person who (as I've said over and again, and will keep doing so) has conducted himself impeccably.

THAT (in turn) is an entry point to look at a wider phenomenon. And I think we can maybe work together here to make that more visible (or, see if it's there at all).

It's like those children's pictures where you have to find and count the hidden bunnies in the woods. Once you know where they are, it becomes MUCH easier to see their shapes in the trees.

[awakeningmom]

I have to say I'm feeling very frustrated with this entire thread. It all began with a cryptic post by Paul indicating that he no longer supported Shane -- just a month after he had strongly vouched for him. We went from expecting BR to do an interview with Shane to fill in gaps left by prior interviews -- to BR explaining (sort of) why that would not likely happen, given this sudden change of support, and based on some detailed emails that went back and forth. An offer of proof was made to provide the rest of us with these details (i.e, the October 5 emails), but two days later, they have not been provided. Instead, this thread is up to 94 posts and is mainly just members either thanking the Mods for sussing something out based on something we have not yet been provided with -- or members reaffirming their original thoughts about Shane....

A theory was advanced that there might be a larger psy-op/manipulation of the alternative community going on, which leaves me wondering why we are not getting the October 5 detailed emails straight away. Without those, it is starting to feel like THIS is the manipulation. Division and disagreement and a slow trashing of someone once on a PA pedestal, based so far on a letter that was doubted from the start by many.

Sigh is right.

[Bill Ryan]

leaves me wondering why we are not getting the October 5 detailed emails straight away.


My internet connection here has been blinking on and off all weekend like a bad light bulb. Hang on. I did say I was going to go slow (to give people time to read and think and reply), but not this slow! :)

[Bill Ryan]

.
5 October questions, and answers from Shane (verbatim, unedited). I sent them after Shane had written to me saying (paraphrase) that maybe I might not want to do an interview with him after all. I sent the written questions because I didn't want to 'ambush' him on audio (or to be felt maybe to be doing so), and wanted to give him time to think and reply with care. Shane, again to his credit, said that he did not consider it an 'ambush' at all.



~~~~~~~



1. I was looking through your PMs to me over the years, and I was reminded of this one, from 6 Sept 2013. I’m sure you remember it well. The title was ‘Sleeping’:






Hi Bill.. I hope this finds you doing well!

If you have time I was wondering if you could share something with me.

Recently I saw/found something that even I didn't believe existed.. and I have been reaching out to people I know who may have heard tell of such things.

So..

Have you ever come across information about "sleeping" beings from off planet still buried on planet? To give you an image; if you have seen the Alien prequel film "Prometheus" - they find one of the "engineers" asleep in a pod inside the base (ship) they discover.

Have you ever heard anyone talk about beings on our planet in such a state of hibernation?

Any insights you can share would be valuable to me.. If you have time and are willing of course.

As always, all my very best wishes to you Bill.

Shane



I would like to ask this, if I may. Exactly what was the experience you had? Please be specific... thanks. Was it real-world (like, if you’d had a camera with you, you could have recorded it) — or was it in some other state of reality, subjective reality, or remote perception?

Shane: looking at the blueprints for the building we both noticed a room marked that seemed rather large and we were curious as to what was inside. When we approached the room we found it sealed shut and it appeared to be shut this was for a long time.

It was intuitively that I picked up something important being hidden inside. I could feel the energy of something alive or at least formerly alive.

Having heard about sleeping beings and having been intrigued and curious to meet such a being I had asked some well connected friends about the location and received word that the site held a "sleeping giant".

Knowing it was (or may be) there I began to focus on trying to view it, and was able to.

I had mentioned this to you, or asked if you'd heard anything about it, hoping you may direct me to a researcher who has knowledge of these things. At the time it was my intention to tell said researcher about the location and see if they may take interest in investigating. Knowing I couldn't do this myself without receiving unwanted attention, I thought I may pass it off to someone else to try and look into.

As things go, often working out for the best, I never received any responses. So I had let it go. A few months later an old friend had told me what was going on. I felt it best to drop it at the time.

It is also important to note that at the time I sent that PM to you I was still being very careful regarding what I admitted involvement in.

=============

2. The two letters from Cassandra that you published. In what form did you first receive them? Did she write them to you by hand? Did she send them to you by e-mail, or in hard copy? Did you get them by some other means? I wonder if you could take a moment to clarify.

Shane: The letters from Cassandra were hand written and delivered directly to me. She and I have a relationship that has continued beyond my involvement with her and the structure.

I typed her words into a word document and then gave the first one back to her, as per her request, and delivered the second to a member of her group/coven.

This was all something she did at my request, and wasn't anything "official". Simply repaying a personal debt. (Quite simple: She "owed me one" so to speak and this is what I requested. Hoping anyone who chose to read it would understand from that what she was like. All personal desire here. )

=============

3. How much of the information you have presented in so much detail is from your own subjective past-life recall? If any of this is, when did this come to you (approximately what year), and have you ever been regressed?

Shane: The information in the blog is a compilation of things I've learned in this life. I left past life recall out of things for the intended audience.

Past life recall for me is different than most because I haven't been through the same type of incarnations as most other beings do. It's unbroken and although not perfect is just as accurate as any other memory. None required regression which is a process I have never been through. (Hypnotism doesn't seem to work on me at all, something I would be willing to be tested on)

With the blog writing it wasn't about my memory of things beyond the time I have spent in this body and more taken from questioning beings involved (various races), reading occult books and accounts not available in the public world. The main theme of impersonations is already known by many.

=============

4. Your meeting with Anu, and others, in the large meeting room. I presume from the way you described it (forgive me if I missed anything here), it may have held something like 50-60 people. Yet one might imagine that literally thousands of people might have been eligible to be present at such a significant event.

Can you help your audience understand how you came to be invited, given that you were regarded (again, if I understand things correctly) as a kind of renegade?

Shane: The meeting I spoke of was not as significant and many would assume. I'll attempt to explain.

The significance of the meeting was supposed to be the final talks about the pass over from Draco to the Parents. One of Anu's sons was meant to take over as the leader of the Parents and structure, which is what happened, but the reason for the meeting turned out to be Anu stripping his son of the support he was meant to receive. A much larger meeting was set to occur (and did/has) after this smaller meeting. This was meant to be more of a ceremony than a meeting to make decisions.

The group I have called "Elders" in my blog were invited and one of them invited me as his guest. (He and I are quite close.)

So the only reason I was there was due to personal connections I have developed with individuals present.

To the lower levels of the structure I am a "renegade" of sorts but the Parents, Elders and Draco do not view me as such. This is deeply personal and something I avoid giving detail on as it doesn't really matter, even if it deepens the story.

=============

5. Similar to my question #1 above about the PM you sent me on 6 Sept 2013 (‘Sleeping’): was this attendance with Anu a physical, real-world event, or was it in some other form? (In other words, to clarify my question, if you’d had a camera in your pocket, could you in theory have had photos to share if you’d been allowed to take any?)

Shane: The gathering described above was physical, real world, 3D. I had traveled by car with the Elder who invited me to a location and entered an underground establishment with him. No magic or astral projecting involved.

=============

6. To help your audience be more certain in their understanding of the provenance of your very important story: is there anything at all you can offer to show that you are from an Illuminati or bloodline family? Even one name from your family tree would be helpful.

Or even something like a photo of a plaque on the wall. Or even a photo of your own birth certificate, which would not implicate/involve anyone else in any way.

I’m sure all this is on the public record somewhere, but it’d be valuable to a lot of people if you could be helpful to those very much wanting to support you in your story. Maybe a few moments thought might help you to think of a neat way to square this important circle.

Shane: This is a slippery slope for me as it begins to involve several others besides myself. When I was 15 they did a sanitization of all public records to ensure I could never become a "whistleblower". I can give the family name through which I am connected (which is Russell) and perhaps someone savvy could find the records that my mothers, mother's (My grand mother) maiden name, is Russell. She had two male siblings who still carry that name as do some of their male children. Meaning some of my relatives do use that name.

My Grandfathers side wouldn't be traceable. The most famous relative would be Napoleon. This was connected to the Rothschild family.

These are good reasons NOT to consider myself as a credible whistleblower/insider.

I was adopted by a step father and took his name. The original name on my BC would be my biological fathers name, which is not a "Bloodline name".

There is nothing official to verify my story. Which is why I don't expect anyone to believe or accept it. If I could, I wouldn't be writing the way I have.

=============

7. When did you first start communications with Corey? How did that happen, and who initiated it? I’m presuming, for instance, that you shared your information about the Sleeping Giants with him. If that’s what happened, when did you do that, and what did you tell him? (If that was in writing or text form, can you share/copy what you told him?)

Shane: I believe it was just after his first interview with Christine that I contacted Corey. I had read a post where he mentioned "The Black Sun Order" which caught my attention because most people call it "The Order of The Black Sun". The order of the words Corey had placed them in was the correct order. Others had as well so this was not unique to him. I have messaged others for the same reason.

We exchanged a few PMs but not a lot until the issue regarding the second interview was discussed which was an audio issue I had offered to try and help recover.

There was mention of the sleeping Giants in some of our communication. He seemed to have some knowledge and I had offered him more. This was the reason, or topic, that he had asked me to speak with David for.

I never spoke to Corey via voice at all. Most of our conversations were "two guys shooting the breeze". I did tell DW about my experiences.

I don't keep Skype logs and I'm not sure what is still in my logs to be recovered. What I told Corey was very limited and what I told DW was very detailed and I am aware that DW shared what I told him with Corey which is perfectly acceptable as he had my full permission to do so.

I believe it was October or November 2014 when our communication began.

At that time Corey sent me the videos that he has now made popular of what is claimed to be an "Annunaki in stasis". Which is clearly not what is claimed. That seemed to be the depth of his knowledge.

=============

8. The surveillance video that you said existed of Corey and Stacy. When was that dated? Can you request that a (maybe even redacted/edited) copy of that be sent securely to some reliable researcher, for instance Michael Salla (or even David Wilcock), if they sign an NDA that they will not release it publicly?

(Or even to myself? You do know, of course, that I would keep my word on any agreement made. And also of course, to violate an NDA of that nature would not be wise for anyone to try to do. If the video exists, or still exists, one would think that independent corroboration of that event would be most important.)

Shane: I don't mention the video in question publicly because all it could be is "he said- she said" drama. I do not have access to a copy and was only allowed to view it a handful of times. This would have been February or March 2015. It remains off the record because of the reason given above. Cannot be shown or verified and is simply here say if I state this publicly. I'm hoping this question can remain off the record for this reason. I truly have no interest in "discrediting" Corey. I tell people off the record but never extend that info to anyone unless it comes up.

=============

9. Christine wrote on her forum about your recent interview:



This intimate conversation comes from a friendship, a result of getting to know each other over the course of a year or more.
That surprised me a little, because prior to mid-December last year, Christine had never once mentioned your name. Did she make a slip in her post? (Easy for that to have happened, of course.) Can you clarify? I had been assuming that it was Corey who must have introduced you to her sometime after the New Year, but from what she wrote, it seems that I may have been wrong.

(The timeline, so to speak, of all these complex interactions is important to understand, as it’d be most valuable for a lot of people to know that a great deal of Corey’s information was plagiarized from yourself. But it would be very useful for many to have a more complete picture of exactly how and when all that happened.)

Shane: I don't recall the exact date Christine and I began talking but it was around the time she became no longer a moderator at Avalon. I reached out to her directly and Corey was not involved or a topic of my message to her. It was simply me hoping to establish a connection with her as a friend because I appreciated her words. It has been less than a year but close enough that I don't see any issue with her wording.

=============

10. Are you willing to release any more of your Skype conversations with Corey? Some have been leaked, as you know (ironically, some by Corey himself), but a more complete record of what transpired would be most helpful for others to understand.

Shane: I don't think I have all of our Skype text as I stated in an earlier question as well. There is no reason to release any of it. What Corey has repeated from info I had shared is second hand, as I never shared it with him I had shared it with DW. Most of which if not all of which was done in voice conversations I did not record. (Corey had claimed DW did and shared them with him in a post on TOT around April 2015)

Corey has edited the logs he released slightly to omit things he said but none of this really matters much. I have publicly admitted I played along with his story and lied to him and DW while playing along, and I have also apologized to them both privately and publicly.

What Corey released shows my lies to him and my playing along which is fine as I admit that so I have nothing to counter there.

The payroll topic is the only aspect that he twisted further and I have made the screen shots public to show he is being dishonest there.

=============

11. You told me by PM that Corey had contacted you round about the New Year to ask for background information on me. You sent him some items, some of which I presume you had received from others. Can you also send those to me? And also what he had originally asked you to supply? (It would seem very reasonable that you would. Copies of that correspondence, which concerns me personally, would be most helpful for me to see.)

Shane: I had told Corey about my reason for joining Avalon originally just as I have told you and Kerry. At the time I had told him that, when I joined, I had a dossier of information about you both. He assumed I still had it and asked me for it. I didn't have it and couldn't share it. That's all. Other than I saw him claiming he would be receiving said dossier despite my telling him I didn't have it to give. I will see if this is in the Skype logs but I am not sure if it is. My reason for telling you was to put your mind at ease knowing that Corey did not possess such a thing to hold against you.

=============

12. In connection with that, can you help me understand — and I do not mean this as an accusation, but it’s just an unanswered, reasonable question — why did you not tell me at that time of Corey’s request, that someone who had an evident intention to smear me was asking you for personal information that they could use? I do appreciate that you clarified to me later that that had happened, but that was several months after the event.

Shane: I didn't reach out to you when he asked because, well.. Corey was always freaking out about someone who didn't support him and I didn't take it very seriously until I saw that you were concerned he had something against you. I didn't want you to feel concerned. Prior to then I didn't know you had thought he did indeed have something against you. (I didn't read the full blog he wrote trying to bash PA) when I saw you mention it in a PA post I thought it best to try and ease your mind. I wasn't looking to get in the middle of all this. If I could do it all again the "Avians" question from the intended audience wildly have been answered on the blog. It never had anything to do with discrediting Corey or giving the public info about his nonsense. The intended audience knew what it was but was confused by some of the public chatter they had found (coming from Corey and DW) and asked for me to connect the dots between what they knew and what Corey was saying. I didn't name Corey or post it publicly on any forums that Corey or his followers would know about. Stupid of me to assume no one within the alternative community would find the blog, or that post.

===========================

[Kristin]

Personally I feel the overall lesson here is one about discernment. You can read, view, listen, and participate in anything you like in a free-will paradigm. It is when we give up the ability to think for ourselves that the water can become muddy very quickly. Some people will buy into a perception so strongly that they will even change their own personal story to fit into the parameters of another; as though their own personal subjective experiences were not truth enough. It's about standing on your own two feet.

Is Shane telling the truth? Well, let me turn that around, WHAT IS YOUR TRUTH? If you need someone to define that for you then it is no longer your truth rather a system of belief. This is fine and your choice, but remember a belief can be tangible in it's inception. It will change as new information comes in to change it, it can become movable like the tide depending upon where you have given your power away. You will have to move with it. If you do not you will be perceived (regardless of your intentions) as moving against it even if you are simply standing still.

A belief system can become so large that it becomes a cult/religion. Once it's acquired such a status, well watch how quickly the acolyte will slap you in the face if you start to think for yourself again. The moment you stop and perceive you draw attention to yourself. Standing alone and in your own truth is not easy in a crowd that is pumped up and moving, is it?

Listen and explore. OBSERVE. But there is no need to ever give away discernment. The ability to think for oneself is a gift that should not be shrugged or taken for granted. It takes practice and refines itself with use. Dust off your discernment, take it out of the trunk and try it on again. Discernment is self-empowering, it is reflective, it has the ability to change it's position and the ability to gain new insight. Discernment knows when the water feels too cold, when the emotions are too hot, it can tell you when to back off and when to ask what is necessary. Discernment is the backbone of social responsibility.

From the Heart,
Kristin

[Realeyes]

Let's light it up, let's light it up, until our hearts catch fire...

EpbjEttizy8

[Selene]

Personally I feel the overall lesson here is one about discernment. You can read, view, listen, and participate in anything you like in a free-will paradigm. It is when we give up the ability to think for ourselves that the water can become muddy very quickly. Some people will buy into a perception so strongly that they will even change their own personal story to fit into the parameters of another; as though their own personal subjective experiences were not truth enough. It's about standing on your own two feet.

Is Shane telling the truth? Well, let me turn that around, WHAT IS YOUR TRUTH? If you need someone to define that for you then it is no longer your truth rather a system of belief. This is fine and your choice, but remember a belief can be tangible in it's inception. It will change as new information comes in to change it, it can become movable like the tide depending upon where you have given your power away. You will have to move with it. If you do not you will be perceived (regardless of your intentions) as moving against it even if you are simply standing still.

A belief system can become so large that it becomes a cult/religion. Once it's acquired such a status, well watch how quickly the acolyte will slap you in the face if you start to think for yourself again. The moment you stop and perceive you draw attention to yourself. Standing alone and in your own truth is not easy in a crowd that is pumped up and moving, is it?

Listen and explore. OBSERVE. But there is no need to ever give away discernment. The ability to think for oneself is a gift that should not be shrugged or taken for granted. It takes practice and refines itself with use. Dust off your discernment, take it out of the trunk and try it on again. Discernment is self-empowering, it is reflective, it has the ability to change it's position and the ability to gain new insight. Discernment knows when the water feels too cold, when the emotions are too hot, it can tell you when to back off and when to ask what is necessary. Discernment is the backbone of social responsibility.

From the Heart,
Kristin

Beautifully said, Kristin, as always. Your words always contain so much insight and wisdom. We are lucky to have you as a Mod.

:heart:

Selene

[JChombre]

This may or may not make peoples' lives easier around here: http://www.philocomp.net/humanities/signature.htm

It's stylometric analysis software. Meaning you load multiple texts in there from multiple known authors, and the the longer the text samples the more accurate the comparison will be.

After you've loaded the known authors, you load a text by an unknown author ("Cassandra") in this case and it will analyze the text based on word lengths, sentence lengths, etc. and show which author(s) the unknown text most closely matches.

There is more sophisticated software for Linux but it's not as user friendly.

Also I should point out that this stuff is not foolproof. It's possible to imitate someone else's posting style though, or to change one's own style intentionally. But if "Cassandra's letter" is a close match to the bulk of the text on Shane's blog then that is not something that is determined by who transcribed it. That is telling about the author himself/herself.

Have you given this version a trial? I need to split my mac and load Windows before I can try it and would like to know if it's worth the trouble. Or I can look for a mac version.


Hello Rachel,

Many years ago when I was teaching students, we were provided with a software program that allowed us to identify students who had most likely plagiarized. It was very simple to use. We highlighted a student written work and if 25% of this work matched other published material, then the software suggested that the student had plagiarized and the work was rejected.

I don't remember the name of the software, so I searched google and found the following link that that you may find useful. I don't know if it is Mac-ready but it seems to be a good product.

http://www.plagiarism.org/

Now, do we really need to use outside tools like software programs to find whether Shane or Corey are truthful in their writings and other activities. For me, the answer is a categorical NO because Paul, Bill Ryan and any other human being has this amazing inner ability that allows everyone to "know" the truth, non-truth and more. We all have this "knowingness" inside of us. We all "know the knowledge inside of us", as I heard one morning during my 5:15 AM meditation.

So in my humble opinion, the key is to take the information (any information)inside, internalize and "listen" to it; then decides whether or not to accept or reject this information. Of course, I am breaking up this process here to explain it; in reality, it happens in the blink of an eye.

Then, as one develops this awareness and live more and more in sync with this "knowingness", discordant situations are automatically dismissed or cease to present themselves in the individual's life. For instance, I read a little bit about Corey after all the noise made about him by David Wilcock. Let's just say that Corey's stuff didn't resonate with me, so I stopped paying attention to anything related to this individual. Also, I listened for 10 - 15 min as Kerry Cassidy interviewed the Ruiner (Shane) and with no specific reasons I lost interest in this interview and went on to do other things... My point here is that the answer is inside of us not outside.

Thank you and many blessings.

JC

[ThePythonicCow]

early this year (2105)

Where the heck are you Paul ??? he he !!

Johnny :)
I'm in Dsylexiaville ... a town not far from Margaritaville, so I'm told :).

[Harley]

My thoughts, basically described by quotes of others, but not necessarily posted in order:


I have to say I'm feeling very frustrated with this entire thread. [...] A theory was advanced that there might be a larger psy-op/manipulation of the alternative community going on, which leaves me wondering why we are not getting the October 5 detailed emails straight away. Without those, it is starting to feel like THIS is the manipulation. Division and disagreement and a slow trashing of someone once on a PA pedestal, based so far on a letter that was doubted from the start by many.



It would be great if we could avoid doing the blame game.
When it comes to whistleblowers who are very much under scrutiny from both sides, it certainly can't be an easy line to walk, and for investigative truth seekers, it's like searching for needles in haystacks.
We can only surmise, from what has been revealed over the years here on Avalon and elsewhere, that whistleblowers who want to live are only allowed to say so much, that they may be allowed to give us some truth but only so much, and only if they mix in some disinformation as well.
This is to appease the controllers sense of what is fair, apparently, and to keep us distracted and unsure.
If they can claim that they have giveb us hints as to what they are up to, they think that exonerates them from all their evil doings, apparently.



I pity the poor real experiencers that come forward.



Methinks if any of the great wise sages of olden times were to incarnate now in these present Times, they would all elect to be a quiet and simple road sweeper.

While I don't consider myself a "great wise sage of olden times" (although I am getting kinda old :)), all points have been seriously noted.

[norman]

...... this thread is up to 94 posts and is mainly just members either thanking the Mods for sussing something out........

................or members reaffirming their original thoughts..........


A theory was advanced that there might be a larger psy-op/manipulation of the alternative community going on.............




19 thanks and counting........ tells me to be more careful where I expose my thoughts in future.

I'm already worried.

If we can put this picture together, together, I'll be surprised.

I'm swinging in the direction of doing it just for myself, .... and facing the rest of the 'selfish karma' as the cost of understanding.

[Bill Ryan]

A theory was advanced that there might be a larger psy-op/manipulation of the alternative community going onYes, post #63, here. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008519&viewfull=1#post1008519) It just might be really important. It's possible that this is where the journey might lead.




leaves me wondering why we are not getting the October 5 detailed emails straight away.Posted earlier today on post #94, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008723&viewfull=1#post1008723). There's not been a comment yet about this, as best as I can see. it contains a very great deal of information.




I pity the poor real experiencers that come forward.I've spoken with a lot of real experiencers (I am one myself, too), and most of them tell their stories in a rather different way.




Methinks if any of the great wise sages of olden times were to incarnate now in these present Times, they would all elect to be a quiet and simple road sweeper.Does this mean that Realeyes feels that Shane is a wise sage?

[ThePythonicCow]

Names matter ... actual, real world identities as individual people who walk the surface of this earth matter.

If we knew who the bastards were who have been and continue to exercise tyrannical control over humanity for at least thousands, likely hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of years, then the wrath of humanity would overwhelm those tyrants, and in the words of Henry Ford, "there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

That's why Shane was told not to tell names.

That's why the many incredible tales of Gods and Aliens (not that there aren't aliens, as I presume there are.) Those tales are more fantasy, allegory, fiction, and incredible layers over reality, as a multi-layered smoke screen of shifting patterns, to hide the "man behind the curtain."

There is a delightful article explaining that names matter here: My name is Nobody: Religious fanaticism is a western tradition (http://www.globalresearch.ca/my-name-is-nobody-religious-fanaticism-is-a-western-tradition/5477826). This article concludes with the words: "the refusal to name names is not accidental."

Shane should not blame us for seeking the real, grounded in physical reality, truth, behind the enslavement of humanity. He does not get off the hook by protesting that he labeled his work fiction, so it's our fault for trying to make more of it." No - it's his fault for not recognizing that the Gothic vampire novels, Hollywood movies, the fantasy games earlier played with boards and cards and now played on the computer, the hundreds of mutilated "insider whistleblower" stories that we have sifted through, ... that these lies have deliberately and elaborately obscured from our vision the essential facts of who in the hell is doing this. If such were well known, then the bastards "would be chased down in the streets and lynched", in the words of George H. W. Bush.

Do not protest, Shane, that you warned us that this was all fiction (except for the Cassandra letters, which you protest were not fiction <grin>.)

Rather, for the sake of your own sanity and well being, and as your contribution to humanity, work with us and on your own, to peel back these fantastical layers of fiction and half-truth, to expose, by name, the bastards behind yours and our enslavement.

The monotheistic religions of the last two millenia, which have served well the tyranny of warring tribes on a single planet are breaking down. Those religions will not serve either the tyrants nor the slaves of a species that dominates a star system. Those religions are being replaced. Let us not allow another 2000 years of institutionalized lies, like those that took our confessions and shared intelligence about the enslaved masses, these last 2000 years.

Who the hell are you, bastards? I would tell you to go to hell, but you would likely take that to mean that I am beseeching you to continue to turn into hell wherever you are. No ... Get lost!

[awakeningmom]

First, thanks, Bill, for providing the October 5 Question and Answers. I guess I’ll take a first crack at responding about them specifically.

Honestly, I guess my first reaction after reading the 12 Q & A’s is confusion. Is that all? I just don’t see what responses from Shane caused you and the Mod Team to suddenly feel like he was lying or mind-controlled or part of a larger agenda. As someone else has already pointed out, his story is already quite fantastic (to many of us), with Dracos and Giants and Parents, etc. – and yet you and many Mod members stood by Shane and this story prior to this Q & A session. I guess I’m having a hard time understanding what made the “something’s not right” lightbulbs go off NOW?

1. The first question about the “sleeping giants,” is confusing to me. Shane has spoken about his in-person experiences with giants in his blog, but it appears that you are asking him about what he had experienced back in 2013, when he (I assume) first reached out to you? I guess I am not sure what the question was hoping to clarify. Or why his answer set off alarm bells.

2. Question 2 about the letters makes sense, and I agree that Shane’s answers on this aren’t all that comforting to anyone who already suspects that they are too modern to be written by the Queen of the Damned. But then again, concerns about the modernity and obvious similarity to Shane’s writing style had been raised long before this actual Q & A session – so why would this suddenly be a problem to you/the Mods?

3. Shane’s Answers to Questions 3-6 don’t raise any alarm bells for me any more than the ENTIRE STORY set forth in his blog does. Is it just the continuing vagueness/lack of real detail? I agree that his answers are frustratingly vague – but that has been his style throughout his blog and the answers he provides to those posting questions there. Was there another set of questions besides these questions where you asked for more details that just weren’t forthcoming? Or were these 12 it?

4. Finally, I honestly don’t understand the sudden rash of questions about Corey (and Christine) in Q’s 7-12. Is the concern that Corey and Shane are actually working together in this potential alternative community manipulation? What makes you think so, if yes? And why does it matter when he befriended Christine and whether it was over or under a year ago? Is Christine part of a larger manipulation too?

Sorry, but I have no idea who Stacy is, or what the import of the surveillance video someone has or doesn’t have is. It certainly feels like there’s some inside story that matters far more than what Shane may or may not know about Awakening Giants, Suicidal Parents, Departing Dracos, and Energetic Waves. And apparently Shane’s answers mattered a great deal since they precipitated this withdrawal of support for him. But because I don’t know the inside backstory, it is hard to understand why these 12 questions were the most important to ask pre-interview – and why Shane’s answers were enough to decide he was most likely, in the words of another member, “full o’chit.” I CAN understand, however, why this would have felt like an ambush to Shane if he thought he was being interviewed about his Blog or his presumed Illuminati intel -- and was instead grilled about his relationship to Corey Goode.

I don’t know if anything else is forthcoming that could clarify the above confusion, but I’m not sure it’s worth unraveling anymore. This all somehow feels really wrong to me. :(

[PurpleLama]

.

I don’t know if anything else is forthcoming that could clarify the above confusion, but I’m not sure it’s worth unraveling anymore. This all somehow feels really wrong to me. :(

Heheh heheh. She said Unraveling.
http://www.unravelingmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/UnRaveling-Band-Shot-1-Edit-facebook.jpg

[Daozen]

As a result, he said, he was banished to a desolate planet that contained no sentient beings,

Earth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk



It paints a picture of the possibility of a huge strategic attempt to confuse every one of us with false claims that seem for all the world to be credible, in some cases presented by the very nicest and most sincere people.

Just to be crystal clear, my comment about keeping people behind the curve doesn't apply to Shane, but most of the other celeb whistleblowers. There are many red flags that raise when someone is lying, Shane doesn't have any of them.

If he had been lying about either Cassandra letter, for example, he would've faked a copy himself and then photographed it with a smartphone. Insider etiquette means you take no photos of anything, as most insiders, especially the negatives, can be very paranoid and even pompous about their privacy. You must know that even more than me Bill.

Cassandra may have sounded somewhat senile, instead of -juvenile- because the poor lady may have been drinking jugular blood for the last 14,000 years. That has got to suck. Whatever life extension method she used must have taken it's toll on her soul and brain. The Ruiner alluded to this in the Thomas Williams interview...

EDIT: (Reading teh OCt 5th Q+A) Plus, Cassandra and the Ruiner had a relationship outside the 'structure', so the letter may be just too personal to share.

[Innocent Warrior]

Hello Rachel,

Many years ago when I was teaching students, we were provided with a software program that allowed us to identify students who had most likely plagiarized. It was very simple to use. We highlighted a student written work and if 25% of this work matched other published material, then the software suggested that the student had plagiarized and the work was rejected.

I don't remember the name of the software, so I searched google and found the following link that that you may find useful. I don't know if it is Mac-ready but it seems to be a good product.

http://www.plagiarism.org/

Now, do we really need to use outside tools like software programs to find whether Shane or Corey are truthful in their writings and other activities. For me, the answer is a categorical NO because Paul, Bill Ryan and any other human being has this amazing inner ability that allows everyone to "know" the truth, non-truth and more. We all have this "knowingness" inside of us. We all "know the knowledge inside of us", as I heard one morning during my 5:15 AM meditation.

So in my humble opinion, the key is to take the information (any information)inside, internalize and "listen" to it; then decides whether or not to accept or reject this information. Of course, I am breaking up this process here to explain it; in reality, it happens in the blink of an eye.

Then, as one develops this awareness and live more and more in sync with this "knowingness", discordant situations are automatically dismissed or cease to present themselves in the individual's life. For instance, I read a little bit about Corey after all the noise made about him by David Wilcock. Let's just say that Corey's stuff didn't resonate with me, so I stopped paying attention to anything related to this individual. Also, I listened for 10 - 15 min as Kerry Cassidy interviewed the Ruiner (Shane) and with no specific reasons I lost interest in this interview and went on to do other things... My point here is that the answer is inside of us not outside.

Thank you and many blessings.

JC

Yes, thank you JC, excellent point. My interest in the software is more for a tool for other research purposes, than any interest I have in Shane's material, which is minimal. I replied to Bsbray on this thread, rather than in PM, in case others were also interested in the usefulness of the practical application of the software.

Many blessings to you also.

My apologies for heading the thread off its intended direction.

[transiten]

...... this thread is up to 94 posts and is mainly just members either thanking the Mods for sussing something out........

................or members reaffirming their original thoughts..........



A theory was advanced that there might be a larger psy-op/manipulation of the alternative community going on.............




19 thanks and counting........ tells me to be more careful where I expose my thoughts in future.

I'm already worried.

If we can put this picture together, together, I'll be surprised.

I'm swinging in the direction of doing it just for myself, .... and facing the rest of the 'selfish karma' as the cost of understanding.

Seconds prior to read your post norman this was what I was thinking: How much personal shadow work is made on Avalon....also after pondering how fast the Synchronicity thread started by WitheLove seems to have faded...

[Daozen]

Seconds prior to read your post norman this was what I was thinking: How much personal shadow work is made on Avalon....also after pondering how fast the Synchronicity thread started by WitheLove seems to have faded...

There is a lot of shadow work and catharsis that goes on here, and to their credit, the mods let nearly all of it go. They let small fights and squabbles happen freely, as occasional heated discussion is a normal part of any community. I have never been moderated here, for example. On most other boards I have had someone breathing down my neck for one reason or another. Stifling problems only makes them fester, and then surface later in a different form.

[Wind]

Stifling problems only makes them fester, and then surface later in a different form.

You hit the nail on the head with that one. It applies to many things...

[transiten]

Seconds prior to read your post norman this was what I was thinking: How much personal shadow work is made on Avalon....also after pondering how fast the Synchronicity thread started by WitheLove seems to have faded...

There is a lot of shadow work and catharsis that goes on here, and to their credit, the mods let nearly all of it go. They let small fights and squabbles happen freely, as occasional heated discussion is a normal part of any community. I have never been moderated here, for example. On most other boards I have had someone breathing down my neck for one reason or another. Stifling problems only makes them fester, and then surface later in a different form.

Daozen I both understand and don't understand what you mean? And wonder if you did understand my point? Of course as you say "stifling problems make them fester and then surface in a different form".

I was thinking of conscious personal work with one's own shadow in connection to topics like this and hence the collective unconscious, not the unconscious breaking through of personal rejections which of course might be the start of conscious work with the personal and collective unconscious. As always, pointing your finger at someone always make three fingers point back at yourself.

This doesn't mean putting blame on anyone, but as one spots something negative in another person it's an opportunity to change something within oneself however small or big that reflected issue might be.

[Daozen]

Maybe I missed your point and made an alternate one, Transiten. I think a lot of shadow work ends up involuntary and unconscious. It's better to do it premeditated and consciously, but it can't always be that way. I was just noticing Project Avalon's value as a vehicle for spiritual cleansing.

[transiten]

Was going to post something and changed my mind....can't get rid of the post though so I have to type something - is this shadow work ;)

[Matthew]

Regarding this


...
Yes, post #63, here. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008519&viewfull=1#post1008519) It just might be really important. It's possible that this is where the journey might lead.
...


I was infected briefly. Corey gets excited in the climate of non-disclosure and provides everyone some certainty. Certainty without proof. And it's reassuring. Communities are troubled and individuals emmerge who act. It's like whistleblower city.

And the suggestion is there is a root effect and ripple effects and this all might be deliberate.

If deliberate I would guess it serves more than one purpose. I further guess at least distraction, disinformation and it is a little disarming.

Distraction: Take the deaths reported in alternative medicine for example. It's like the dangerous and scarey aspects are hard to hold onto.
Disarming: These fictions and/or facts from Corey, DW, The Runier, etc are a respite from the uncertainty and scareyness (to a greater or lesser degree, some less than others) and are nice to hear. It's dulling and safe when perhaps we need to play a more active part.

Just some thoughts.


edit: post it transiten!

[transiten]

Ok YoYoYo, I was going to post a video with Aly Bain and Boys of the Lough that showed not being allowed in other fora than youtube and got the hunch maybe i should not post it. Got the idea since Daozen is from Scotland and once I attended a fiddle course with Aly Bain here in Sweden during a period when I was being brainwashed by a meditationguru which consequences have made me look deep down into the "Dark Night of the Soul".

There are also golden treasures to be found there, once admitted and forgiven. And this lively music reminded me of that.

Here's a Jungian joke i just posted in another thread:

-I lost my keys :(
-Where did you lose them?
-Over there (pointing to a dark area)
-So why are you looking here under the street lamp?
-It's more lit up here
-:facepalm:





***********************
Note from Bill: :focus:, please!


That's why I decided NOT to post but decided to after the encouragement of YoYoYo:bigsmile:

[Catsquotl]

Probably not important, but why use the color red in the Q&A post? http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008762&viewfull=1#post1008762

I remember an old book of teaching kids the bible at school everything about the devil was also in a red font.
Also there are a few articles around if you want to explore how color changes your perception of things based on cultural upbringing..

It feels like exploring truth is no longer the issue, but trying to find validating arguments to gut impressions are.

Ah well it seems the wheels keep on turning..
I really don't get why the truth of Shane's blog is an issue all of a sudden. It isn't that he's making ****loads of money from it unlike other whistleblowers that have come and gone.
He is as far as I can tell writing or rather wroting about his view of his truth.

As far as I am concerned that fact alone makes it so it can never be my truth as truth is something one lives.
Like so many fantastic and imaginative stories that made it to the alt-community over the years this is another one with gems and glitters painting part of what will be your truth.

Truth is what we believe it to be. I.m.h.o that is.
This is why television works as a mind altering device. I would hope that anyone who has been around the block once would know how they can discern their personal truth and those who done it twice or thrice would know that truth in the end has to do f..all with live.

With Love
Eelco

[Rusalka]

Dear All,

I have been following information provided by the alternative media for many years now and I have come to one simple conclusion. Where there is a problem, there is always a solution - it comes as a package.
The problem here, concerning the whole Avalon forum – supported further by Bill’s eloquent formulation of his life leitmotif – is the quest for truth.

What is the truth?

I believe that we as a human race have labels for things that do not actually exist. We do not know any better, so we have them.
We live in bubble realities that are highly subjective. This is in fact the multiverse everyone is speaking of. As you are, so you attract. Let’s say you are a scientist trying to find a proof for your hypothesis and in the room next door, there is your colleague trying to refute it. You will both be successful. You will start to attract the proof of whatever you are focusing on.

Everything is valid, everything exists.

You are both looking for the truth, but what you will discover is the fact that there are many, depending on your own personal set up, so to speak.

So, the question is “What do you want to be the truth for you“? What do you want your subjective reality to look like?

The plethora of whistleblower testimonies serves one purpose only, it gives us the opportunity to pick and choose. There is a reason for the conflicting statements. This is the only way for us to realise that we cannot listen to the outside sources anymore. We need to go inside.
The outside reality shapes itself according to what we are...

Of course, there is the consensual reality in which we perceive the „same things“ – the person standing next to me sees the same building infront of us – would it be otherwise, we could not have any discussion, form any relationships or grow as a collective...

I have read almost the entire Shane‘s blog and listened to all available public interviews. I can see the point in his claim that everything stated in his blog is a work of fiction. It is one point of view shared by few, relevant to their subjective realities. By focusing on that you are attracting similar experiences into your reality.

Until one of the reptilians, greys or whatever species show up in your living room, the whole thing you are being fed are just stories – descriptions of somebody’s subjective reality bubble.

So, choose wisely what you put your attention on.

I do believe that some of the stories are actually meant to be distractions and it works really well. Look at the community, we are all over the place, our attention is scattered. We jump from one thing to the next. Look at this, look at that...no look at this. That is true, no this is true, or maybe that...Well, choose and stick to it that’s the only way to bring it forth into manifestation.

In theory, if enough people believe and focus on the same thing, it becomes part of the consensual reality – everyone can perceive it – so, what we are going to do about it?

The biggest contribution of the aforementioned blog is the overall entourage of positivity because it is in our best interest to come from such a place.

With love and gratitude for your existence,

[transiten]

Exactly Rusalka, that's what i'm constantly trying to do, research personal truth in connection with the collective to the extent that I go OFF TOPIC but not in my own view of course since I have my truth which f.i. up til now has been that The Reptilian Perspective is a projection from our reptilian brain which doesn't exclude there might be Real Reptilians out there. I have no longing to ever meet one though and I have enough with internal shadow work trying to turn lead into gold and that applies for the collective also....The Golden Age anyone? :sun:

[araucaria]

Bill (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008723&viewfull=1#post1008723): thank you for posting a brief audio of Bernstein. Interestingly, Gould was in full agreement, and giggling his head off while waiting to come onstage: no big deal. Except that very soon afterwards, he quit the concert platform for good to concentrate on studio recordings. Which is very germane to what I have to say below.

My posting style puts me somewhat out of step. It takes me time to gather my thoughts. To those who are finding the pace slow already, I apologize if it is a problem responding to post #1 in my post #91, or to #94 in c. #120. However, the thing I have been thinking about overnight has been touched on in various ways. Who are the nameless bastards we can tell to get lost? Can we use software to vet human whistleblowers? Avoid the blame game…

Bill, you say, “It is NOT really about Shane”: well, yes and no; but, practically speaking, how do we take yes and no for an answer? We have been here a few times over the years, and others before us. The wheat and the chaff. The curate’s bad egg: parts of it he said were delicious. The baby and the bathwater. Life vs non-life; AI vs humanity. Mind control vs the unfettered creative mind. There are always two things inextricably intertwined. Like the rabid dog, how do we remove the rabies without killing the dog? OK, we kill the dog, but say it’s a human, we need to find a cure. The old message/messenger dichotomy is worn to a shred. We are dealing with a “messager” syndrome. I prefer to focus on the human element of this AI/human compound. You only research rabies to isolate it and find a cure for the madness it induces. So for me, it is very much about Shane; he comes first, his material second.

Bill in post #63 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008519&viewfull=1#post1008519):

It's just like a new remote-influencing technology got perfected, and is now being rolled out. It’s more than ten years since Paul Levy was talking about the collective psychosis in The Madness of George Bush; and he was quoting material from Carl Jung, who was analyzing the Nazi period. So we don’t need some new technology that has just been launched, and we won’t find any nameless bastards “out there” to ostracize. The issue is older than that and closer to home than that. Indeed brand new technology does not sit well with any story of an ET presence dating back thousands or millions of years. The timescales just don’t match. It makes no sense to talk about “last year” on an almost geological timescale. But, on the human timescale, it does make sense to consider that a contagious madness first diagnosed (maybe) 80 years ago has built up to a critical point about now.
For further info on Paul Levy, whom I have been quoting ever since I joined this forum, see:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?12285-Is-this-becoming-the-all-Charles-forum&p=115590&viewfull=1#post115590
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49875-Message-in-a-bottle-from-9eagle9&p=555743&viewfull=1#post555743
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=666955&viewfull=1#post666955
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80742-Fitts-and-Farrell-Secret-Space-Program-Conference-San-Mateo-2014&p=944068&viewfull=1#post944068
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?80777-David-Wilcock-response-to-Ben-Fulford-s-post-2015-03-16-I-strongly-suspect-that-Putin-was-having-meetings-with-the-Alliance&p=944606&viewfull=1#post944606
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?81587-Bush-Family-Treason&p=953623&viewfull=1#post953623
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78630-John-Lash-s-Kalika-war-party&p=970955&viewfull=1#post970955
(This last post is continued here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78630-John-Lash-s-Kalika-war-party&p=970962&viewfull=1#post970962 )

We are all experiencers in one way or another; whistle-blowing and forum hosting are just two ways of sharing those experiences, with no privileged status attached, in my eyes at least. Otherwise you are placing the emphasis on those who have experienced the madness, thereby doing exactly what we reject in the sensationalist mainstream press. How then are we going to give a voice to those who have experienced the sanity? My chosen third way is forum posting and my criterion for judging what is going on is the ability to stay sane and carry on as part of a community giving a voice to healing sanity. But the other big picture I am seeing is a constant flow of forum members unable to stay the course, and leaving for whatever reason of incompatibility or inability to maintain normal communications, regardless of subject matter. You have breakaway forums to try and carry on the unhealthy hybrid. Avalon-Nexus, Avalon-TOT… What we need and are heading towards is Avalon only – not, I hasten to add, because it is illegitimate to be doing your own thing with healthy offshoots, but because copycat sites are the outside expression of unfinished schizophrenic business that was not dealt with internally on the forum. Just as recent world history is the external expression of unfinished psychic business of the human race and its sadly representative representatives.

The symptoms of this disease can vary wildly; like the hundred-headed monster, there will always be a new one to deal with. That is the problem facing alternative research. The forms are always new, but the ancient myth of hundred-headed monster shows just how old the disease really is. You have Corey Goode, who was damaged goods from the outset (Milab). (I found out very quickly, and long before his interview, that normal communication was not going to be possible.) Christine, on the other hand, was close to the heart of Avalon, and yet she fell off her horse at that point and became someone very different from the moderator and healer we knew and loved. Or did she? I honestly don’t know. She did not reach her position here through deceitfulness: she was somehow contaminated through contact with a sufferer of this disease, maybe only temporarily. And Corey would have been a good man too had he not caught the disease at any early age. You have to hold onto the humanity in every person: compassion means no one is left behind – not always possible, but that is the goal. We cannot be satisfied at losing anyone.

So where does Shane fit in with all this? Even under pressure, Shane has constantly shown all the qualities and grace needed for normal sane group communication. Yet here we are picking holes in his story and wondering which of our several ways of rejecting someone applies best to his case. It is so simple to say that his book joins the large number of incompatible volumes in our library. Give me all the contradictions you like: I can juggle with them. Shane’s basic conclusion and message from all his material of various kinds, including the possibly dubious, is a hugely positive and simple one that we have heard loud and clear, with plenty of other people saying the same sort of thing. Why quibble with this conclusion and say no, his premise is corrupted and divisive? Let’s stick with the positive and move on together with Shane. I personally would like to see Shane participating more in general forum discussions, sharing his wisdom on a variety of subjects. His experience is not too much of a burden on his emotional balance, but it has monopolized the conversation with him. Shane, can you perhaps see a way to doing that?

My Dad used to swear by G. K. Chesterton, no doubt for his ability to recognize things as being upside down and turn them the right way up. Our brain does this automatically with our optical system; it is almost as if we have lost the corresponding wiring to do this in other areas. We can think straight enough, but it’s all upside down. Here is an example from “G. K.”:

I maintain, therefore, that the common sociological method is quite useless: that of
first dissecting abject poverty or cataloguing prostitution. We all dislike abject
poverty; but it might be another business if we began to discuss independent and
dignified poverty. We all disapprove of prostitution; but we do not all approve of
purity. The only way to discuss the social evil is to get at once to the social ideal. We
can all see the national madness; but what is national sanity? I have called this book
“What Is Wrong with the World?” and the upshot of the title can be easily and clearly
stated. What is wrong is that we do not ask what is right. This was my approach to the Bernstein-Gould “marriage”. On that brief but memorable occasion they overcame their incompatibilities to produce wonderful harmony, with no acrimonious “divorce” to follow. They simply went their own ways. I have learned when people divorce not to take sides. Just as I can enjoy Bernstein’s Brahms and Gould’s Bach, I don’t feel the need to judge or distance myself from one or the other (although we might grow apart anyway); simply their incompatibility with each other got the better of them (but their incompatibility with me is a different issue). Incompatibility per se is not an obstacle: the complementarity, e.g. of opposites attracting, is in fact the basis of any marriage. As Chesterton says,

Coercion is a kind of encouragement; and
anarchy (or what some call liberty) is essentially oppressive, because it is essentially
discouraging. If we all floated in the air like bubbles, free to drift anywhere at any
instant, the practical result would be that no one would have the courage to begin a
conversation. It would be so embarrassing to start a sentence in a friendly whisper,
and then have to shout the last half of it because the other party was floating away
into the free and formless ether. The two must hold each other to do justice to each
other. If Americans can be divorced for “incompatibility of temper” I cannot conceive
why they are not all divorced. I have known many happy marriages, but never a
compatible one. The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant
when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. For a man and a woman, as such, are
incompatible.
And on the previous page:
Briefly, this human belief in a sexual bond rests
on a principle of which the modern mind has made a very inadequate study. It is,
perhaps, most nearly paralleled by the principle of the second wind in walking.
The principle is this: that in everything worth having, even in every pleasure, there is
a point of pain or tedium that must be survived, so that the pleasure may revive and
endure. The joy of battle comes after the first fear of death; the joy of reading Virgil
comes after the bore of learning him; the glow of the sea-bather comes after the icy
shock of the sea bath; and the success of the marriage comes after the failure of the
honeymoon. All human vows, laws, and contracts are so many ways of surviving with
success this breaking point, this instant of potential surrender. In other words, this is yet another Near Death Experience we are having, scaled up from the individual to the group level, and scaled down from the cosmic NDE that humanity seems to be experiencing as a whole. Once we take the heart the lesson of such experiences, we will stop having them. And the lesson is always the same: Stop floating off into the ether, get back down to earth where you belong and start looking after each other in earnest. What we need is some homely simplicity; Chesterton again:

there are signs that the irrational Jones still dreams at night of this old
idea of having an ordinary home. He asked for so little, and he has been offered so
much. He has been offered bribes of worlds and systems; he has been offered Eden
and Utopia and the New Jerusalem, and he only wanted a house; and that has been
refused him. (…)
The idea of private property universal but private, the idea of families free but still
families, of domesticity democratic but still domestic, of one man one house--this
remains the real vision and magnet of mankind.

[Bill Ryan]

Probably not important, but why use the color red in the Q&A post? http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008762&viewfull=1#post1008762



Only to distinguish between the questions and answers! (It could have been blue, but blue looks like a link.)

Because some members have a dark background enabled (which means that to them, regular text looks white), the only other colors that really work well on both backgrounds are red and blue.)

[transiten]

Thankyou araucaria, this was in a long and eloquent way what I meant in my recent post with the Jungian joke and alchemical reference :jester:

I also want to mention I have 3 times posted in David Wilcocks blog asking pple there to give their view of the critizism Corey has recieved. I also said I've been following DW for many years and read 3 of his books. My posts have not appeared and in the last one i asked if i've been censored but no answer....

Never had any problem with earlier posts. This doesn't feel right; I mean I have not "taken sides" ....and this of course tends to steer me in the direction of the critizism...

[Bill Ryan]

I don’t know if anything else is forthcoming that could clarify the above confusion, but I’m not sure it’s worth unraveling anymore. This all somehow feels really wrong to me. :(

Heheh heheh. She said Unraveling.
http://unravelingmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/UnRaveling-Band-Shot-1-Edit-facebook.jpg

This was a rather catty comment, and at first the mods had deleted it, unsure whether this was in the public domain or not. But it is. Shane hasn't made any secret of this. The live performances are on YouTube, and the web pages are here. Do note, though, that this might not be at all relevant to the discussion.

http://facebook.com/unravelingmusic
Members: Instrumentals - Shane Farmer / Vocals - Shane Bales / Additional Orchestration, Guitars and Vocals - Lenny Farmerhttp://unravelingmusic.com/unraveling/the-band
Shane (Shaynard) Bales – Main Vocalist

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

.
I want to try to return this to the bigger-picture focus, which was outlined in this post (#63, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008519&viewfull=1#post1008519)).

This is NOT an inquisition. (Nor, @ Chloe (Thomas Wiliams' partner) who wrote to me privately, 'disinformation', which consists of part-truth-part-falsehood, in a campaign to confuse.)

But I do think there are serious problems. And they have gradually become apparent... it's like a tipping point was reached, but at different points in different audience members' experiences.

Before the bigger picture focus... another HUGE problem. It has to be flagged.

As several have pointed out, Shane stating that he trained Vladimir Putin, 22 years ago, when he (Shane) was aged 13, is almost impossible (for me) to believe.

Moreover, he has stated that Putin "was tall".

That's interesting, because I, too (probably like many people!) had kind of assumed that Putin is tall. But he's not. He's only 5' 7" (170 cm). Shane has said that aged 14, he (Shane) was 5' 8". This just does not wash.

We need to cross-reference this.

Andy Basiago has stated (http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2011/11/mars-visitors-basiago-and-stillings-confirm-barack-obama-traveled-to-mars-1.html) that he personally encountered Barack Obama on Mars... in 1980, 25 years ago. I'm not singling out Shane here! I've also stated that that, too, is absurd. I've been a longstanding critic of Andy's claims.

Andy WAS involved in teleportation experiments when he was a child. That's important. (The excellent new documentary, out next month, Packing For Mars (http://packingformarsmovie.com), found WITNESS TESTIMONY for that.)

But I'm as certain as I can possibly be that he never went to Mars. Those 'memories' of his all 'appeared' after February 2007, when I first talked to him for four hours about his experiences. I don't even know for sure if Andy, now, doesn't believe those memories were always there.

Think about that, for a moment... that's scary.

I will say again and again — Andy is the nicest, most sincere person, and totally believes his own story. When we were doing the Camelot TV show, we brought in a professional analyst, who verified, on camera, in her professional opinion, from his voice, behavior, eye movements, and all his mannerisms, that Andy 100% felt ('knew'!) he was telling the truth. But that scene was cut out of the final production, because it wasn't really 'action-oriented' enough.

And I've TALKED with Andy about this, in person, myself. Although he is a highly intelligent man, he was bewildered when I suggested to him, gently and patiently, for an hour over lunch one day in 2010, that these might be overlaid screen memories, designed to (a) make him look like a laughing stock, and (b) discredit the entire (very real) backstory of Mars bases being a reality. (And they are, of course.)

It was a strange conversation. Andy, who like Shane is a really nice person, was not annoyed by my trying to explain what might have happened... he just could not understand what I was saying. It's like there was a real block there. Eventually, after 45 minutes, he got the idea... and then dismissed it.

I am really concerned that there may be a whole roll-out here of people with extreme, unbelievable stories, some containing very little if any truth, that they cannot show any evidence for, which is leading the alternative community by the nose. Corey Goode is another, of course. He and Shane emerged at almost exactly the same time. AND all the Flat Earth claims and videos. That's active now, more than ever before.

This is my worry. If it's a legitimate one, we should ALL be worried... because there'll be a lot more coming, and it'll be designed to take us all down (in one way or another).

[Bill Ryan]

.
To add to this big smörgåsbord, I want to add one more thing.

Back around 2008, I think, Kerry Cassidy and I were contacted by someone (who we never interviewed) who wrote to tell us how they had been approached by the CIA to 'write fiction' for them. (Our source had declined the offer.)

Now, there are many contexts in which the CIA (and other agencies, one must presume) could deploy fiction! But I just wanted to document, absolutely, that that happens. And I DO have the e-mails somewhere. :)

[ThePythonicCow]

The live performances are on YouTube, and the web pages are here.
Shane, the musician, is well publicized.

Shane, the Ruiner, is well publicized.

However the connection is scarcely made, in public view.

===

P.S. -- replace "is" with "was" :).

[OmeyocaN777]

It's not the first time Bill that elite is trying to confuse us or to divide us with false informations or false flags.
Everytime they tried something like this, we came back more strong than before.
These areas that we are "swimming" are deep and dark waters with a lot of dangers.....
Our biggests weapons is unity and the heart frequency intuition.....
Stay focus guys in our goal to free humanity from the matrix and the prison-mind planet.
When someone of us conquers one truth, everyone in earth that resonates in the same frequency immediately benefits from it (morphogenetic fields).
Step by step we will make the difference.
Anyway the search for truth never ends......and thats the beauty of it!!!
I love you ALL

[Cristi Copac]

@Bill Ryan - What do you think of Leuren Moret?







From Bill: a quick answer... I'm not acquainted enough with her work to have an opinion.

[ErtheVessel]

I'd like to offer some further ideas on the notion of discernment, which seems relevant to this topic of Shane, as well as to our very survival in the current social/psychic madness of our planet.

It seems important to me to begin by distinguishing between those who are misguided or mistaken, and those who are deliberately and maliciously intent on causing harm by lying. I, myself, know very well what it is like to believe something wholeheartedly and then come to a place where I realize how very foolish I have been for being so duped. Personally, I have no sympathy for those who are intentionally malicious - for me they are psychopathic and very possibly not even human. For those who have been misguided, I may keep my distance to protect myself, but I cannot entirely reject them from my heart. To me, this is an important distinction and the action I take after making this distinction may be different in every case, depending on the circumstances.

I also feel that lies and truth can exist simultaneously, which is something that can make discernment very tricky. I will use the example of John Lash, only because it is simple and obvious, not because I want to derail the thread to talk about him. Please, please understand that I am using this example ONLY as a vehicle to discuss discernment. There is a very nice thread about JLL somewhere else for any further discussion of him.

With JLL, my initial interest in his work was because, to me, there was an underlying, foundational truth to his work, which I perceived as the fact that Gaia is a majestic and magnificently intelligent living being who is capable of meaningful communication with all of us who live upon her. This truth that I perceived was very exciting to me. However, in delving into his *teaching* I slowly began to realize that everything else was complete and total fiction. He was making it all up and calling it truth with an intent to wield power and harm others. So this is the very important part - if I am not paying very close attention, I don't notice that the foundational truth does not infuse or animate the *teaching* in any way, they are two separate things. The foundational truth serves only to attract because, I believe, lies do not attract us. And what is even more interesting is that I, myself, enliven any bogus teaching with my own innate sense of truth. The psychopath offers no living truth. The pearl resides in the one who perceives, not in the one who boldly offers his bogus show of greatness.

So the point being, some were attracted initially to Shane's information and perceived something there as truth. I wonder what? Is there some truth there that can be ferreted out that is important? Is something being projected outward that is really within? And I am not referring to shadow work at this point. We tend to project out our light as well as our shadow. It seems so very important to me to use these episodes as tools to unravel the evidence of our own gifts and strengths that we are not currently able to see. If we lose faith in the ability to know our own inner truth, we are indeed lost. Don't let them win that treacherous game.

[giovonni]

replace "is" with "was" :).

One question ...

Under whose administration/appointment was Shane asked or requested to be a made moderator ...

And under what circumstances did he end this status (position) ?

[ThePythonicCow]

Under whose administration/appointment was Shane asked or requested to be a made moderator ...
Shane was a moderator briefly near the end of Richard's term as the lead Administrator, and Shane left shortly after most of the rest of the moderator team left, in March 2011, during the great Charles affair. Shane stayed a couple of weeks after the primary exodus, and offered assistance to myself, the new, replacement mod, for which assistance I remain grateful.

[giovonni]

Under whose administration/appointment was Shane asked or requested to be a made moderator ...
Shane was a moderator briefly near the end of Richard's term as the lead Administrator, and Shane left shortly after most of the rest of the moderator team left, in March 2011, during the great Charles affair.

Thank you Paul ... :)

All i needed to know.

[Jean-Luc]

So after we've had some guy with vanishing sources trying to convince the audience some bankers were running for their lives, we now have another guy trying to sell a similar meme with some dark and pretty old chaps escaping the planet.

Conclusion to be swallowed up by target audience: yes we've made a mess of the place but don't worry, we're gone now.

The question is: will the dude Ryan buy this one this time ?

http://www.vigli.org/Avalon/Ryan-Shane.JPG
Source (https://youtu.be/IdShJjVkZSA?t=4m) (for the rest of the clip, you judge, but probably not the human soul at its highest level of evolution)

But it's probably me. I must have missed something.

[Tangri]

.
To add to this big smörgåsbord, I want to add one more thing.

Back around 2008, I think, Kerry Cassidy and I were contacted by someone (who we never interviewed) who wrote to tell us how they had been approached by the CIA to 'write fiction' for them. (Our source had declined the offer.)

Now, there are many contexts in which the CIA (and other agencies, one must presume) could deploy fiction! But I just wanted to document, absolutely, that that happens. And I DO have the e-mails somewhere. :)

You are right in your observation, except those may not come from the CIA or other governmental agencies all the time. This kind of encouragements comes from different colour sites(dark , light, grey) which intend to implicate or implant the idea.

[Tangri]

.
I want to try to return this to the bigger-picture focus,



But I do think there are serious problems. And they have gradually become apparent... it's like a tipping point was reached, but at different points in different audience members' experiences.

Before the bigger picture focus... another HUGE problem. It has to be flagged.

As several have pointed out, Shane stating that he trained Vladimir Putin, 22 years ago, when he (Shane) was aged 13, is almost impossible (for me) to believe.

Moreover, he has stated that Putin "was tall".

That's interesting, because I, too (probably like many people!) had kind of assumed that Putin is tall. But he's not. He's only 5' 7" (170 cm). Shane has said that aged 14, he (Shane) was 5' 8". This just does not wash.

We need to cross-reference this.


This is my worry. If it's a legitimate one, we should ALL be worried... because there'll be a lot more coming, and it'll be designed to take us all down (in one way or another).

I am surprised you did not criticise my below statement

{"If I tell you, I was 15 years old at Boston Marathon bombing event, supporting my mother's run, most of the readers would be ready to listen my experience in that chaos.

In the same time, some of you would have different questions on my story.}

No one asked me how old I am now or how old my mother was.

We make our acts or move things but affects of those efforts come with fruits in very delayed time
If we are fortuned enough, we can test those fruit in our life, other-vice our grandsons/daughters eat them.

[onawah]

It feels to me also like we may be having another sort of group NDE, such as the ones we've had before, resulting from the Charles debacle and others, when there was a mass migration from Avalon, possibly because many former members could not hold the larger vision that Avalon aspires to, or believe that was possible.
And it's interesting to me that, although I've never abandoned my primary ideal of connecting with Nature in order to self-realize, one of the problems I encounter with being an active member here is that I spend too many hours in my head and on my computer analyzing data instead of out in Nature!:facepalm:
And, despite whatever new behind-the-scenes agendas may be affecting them, the whistleblowers who are giving us their current and divergent views of what's real--at least, the three I've been following the closest, Simon, Shane and Harald-- ironically, are ALL AGREEING that possibly the most important thing we can do is to foster our connection with the Earth.
It seems like a good thing to me that at least the thing they are agreeing on is undeniably an important one (often those things whistleblowers are are very trivial) and, at least from my perspective, undeniably correct.
It's something that the counterculture of the 60s was adamant about, and I think the love of Earth and Nature connection was what really fueled the energy of that revolutionary movement.
To access that kind of energy again, to become that powerful again but with the knowledge and wisdom we have now, I think we are going to have to devote at least as much time to restoration of the environment as we are to research, but at least we don't have to do as much convincing of others to do that--it's becoming more and more obvious every day how much damage we've done, and what the consequences are.
The problem now, I think, is more about how to deal with the addictions so many of us have to technology, and especially the younger generations.
Can we defeat AI using AI, or do we have to eschew it?


In other words, this is yet another Near Death Experience we are having, scaled up from the individual to the group level, and scaled down from the cosmic NDE that humanity seems to be experiencing as a whole. Once we take the heart the lesson of such experiences, we will stop having them. And the lesson is always the same: Stop floating off into the ether, get back down to earth where you belong and start looking after each other in earnest. What we need is some homely simplicity; Chesterton again:

there are signs that the irrational Jones still dreams at night of this old
idea of having an ordinary home. He asked for so little, and he has been offered so
much. He has been offered bribes of worlds and systems; he has been offered Eden
and Utopia and the New Jerusalem, and he only wanted a house; and that has been
refused him. (…)
The idea of private property universal but private, the idea of families free but still
families, of domesticity democratic but still domestic, of one man one house--this
remains the real vision and magnet of mankind.

[Daozen]

As several have pointed out, Shane stating that he trained Vladimir Putin, 22 years ago, when he (Shane) was aged 13, is almost impossible (for me) to believe.

Not necessarily. Dark secret societies regularly use child psychics. Young teenagers are coveted for their PSI abilities. Many illuminists have said training starts at age 5-7. Poltergeist activity, often attributed to young teenagers, especially girls, is very active during early teenage years. Just a point...

Having said that, I am not a "true believer." I 99 per cent think Shane is for real, but I support, in general, tooth combing exercises/close reading exercises like this.



Moreover, he has stated that Putin "was tall".

That's interesting, because I, too (probably like many people!) had kind of assumed that Putin is tall. But he's not. He's only 5' 7" (170 cm). Shane has said that aged 14, he (Shane) was 5' 8". This just does not wash.

This is more of a credible point, so we can hear Shane speak, if he wants to. Even a minor detail like this would not necessarily invalidate the rest of his story.

[Leon Kovalyov]

Hello everyone,

I think what has always been clear and important are the messages that Shane shared with all with respect and kindness...

That energy is clear and the feeling I felt was genuine grace and good will towards all.

Wingmakers comes to mind, as much truth has been passed down through various myth, legend and fiction.

His story made me feel excited to join this forum and share more info with all about a way to reconnect with our planet that was written about in the Ringingcedars series of books. It also made me want to share some of my music with everyone here. The point being that I for one really enjoyed reading his story, if you do not, then put it aside and move on.

You can't please everyone and we can all agree to disagree, everything is everything...

There will always be games played, but truth always lessens our shadows...this helped lessen, remind, reconnect some...

I think we should find a better way to spend our time to reconnect with our Mother Earth, our families and each other through technology inclusively...

OneLove, beloveds...

[Karpos]

In the interest of TRUTH, positive messages are one thing, but how many more Myths do we need?

Do you want your Spiritual Lift from TRUTH or someone's Imaginative Fantasy*? That's the question.

Is Spirituality just boring without Illusory Glamour?

Conscious and unconscious psyops have a reason, be it distraction, confusion, or something else.

I just want to know if Atlantis was a Spaceship or not.

See?

Thanks,
/Bales

*I don't buy the "everyone has their own truth (fantasy)" meme.

[Harley]

Hi Bill,

This is an explanation of my post #103 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008819&viewfull=1#post1008819) (of which which I failed miserably) and it is an explanation of my concern regarding your post #126:
.
I want to try to return this to the bigger-picture focus, which was outlined in this post (#63, here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008519&viewfull=1#post1008519)).I am really concerned that there may be a whole roll-out here of people with extreme, unbelievable stories, some containing very little if any truth, that they cannot show any evidence for, which is leading the alternative community by the nose. Corey Goode is another, of course. He and Shane emerged at almost exactly the same time. AND all the Flat Earth claims and videos. That's active now, more than ever before.

This is my worry. If it's a legitimate one, we should ALL be worried... because there'll be a lot more coming, and it'll be designed to take us all down (in one way or another).

This is all on-topic (The Bigger-Picture Focus) as requested. At first it may appear that I'm posting more than I need to, but I really want everyone to understand where I'm coming from.

So here it is, my best shot. I hope it is OK. :)


The "Great Charles Affair" stands on it's own. It pitted long standing friends against friends and basically smashed the community. Almost all of these people that left were/are good people that eventually split up and formed various friend circles. Some of these people that left had been relatively new to the forum scene, and what do people usually want to do when they join any new group or community? They want to make friends! Unfortunately when these new people got caught up in all this they naturally followed their friends. Since then, and after gaining much experience, some of these people eventually returned.

Charles was for real. But even more importantly, those who were behind him and in the shadows were for real. Yes they were there, and anyone who was really paying attention to Charles' posts (which were also filled with dis-info along with a sprinkling of magnificent sc-fi/fantasy) could easily see that some of his posts were not made by the same individual.

It didn't take long before people first started debunking, first Charles' material and soon after Charles himself, which all resulted in massive drama and a HUGE AMOUNT OF NOISE that went on for months (I mean the Chinese could've launched an ICBM off the California coast and no one would've noticed! :)).

By all appearances (now) this was a huge Psyop designed to do exactly what it did.

Since that time there have been quite a few instances of new so-called whistleblowers making fantastic claims and pushing wild stories, which always go viral before the story is first debunked and then the so-called whistleblower is debunked (which always creates massive amounts of noise I might add).

These instances have been increasing, but herein lies the real problem (and yes, I believe it's by design):

With the ever-increasing number of these bogus stories and whistleblowers, people are becoming more and more suspicious (as they should be). But because so many are beginning to get so accustomed to these instances of bogus stories and whistleblowers, they have now began to immediately attack the whistleblower practically as soon as their story/info has been released.

Once again, I believe this is by design and that there are instigators to kick it off each time it occurs.


Whenever a true, honest, genuine, and helpful insider/whistleblower comes forward, it will never be for fame and fortune (service to self) but it will be to inform and help (service to others). And as a matter of fact most true whistleblowers would prefer to keep a low profile and even to remain anonymous (but not always).

Now here is my concern that I wasn't very plain in making in Post #103 here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008819&viewfull=1#post1008819):

With everyone being so conditioned to immediately focus on and attack the messenger, what true whistleblower will ever want to come forward? I mean who in their right mind would want to put up with that kind of treatment (and exposure)? I know that I wouldn't. And I won't.

It is this that is the crux of the matter (the most important point). They wish to put an end to all whistleblowing and the truth. And yes, it's serious.

But you're being forced to wield a double-bladed axe here, and I'm wondering how you're going to prevent accidentally taking out the good guy when you rear that axe back to strike the bad guy?

Thanks and with respect,

Harley

[A Voice from the Mountains]

It didn't take long before people first started debunking, first Charles' material and soon after Charles himself, which all resulted in massive drama and a HUGE AMOUNT OF NOISE that went on for months (I mean the Chinese could've launched an ICBM off the California coast and no one would've noticed! :)).

Perfect example. I know what you're referring to and it looks as though that actually happened, and yes, it got very little attention.


By all appearances (now) this was a huge Psyop designed to do exactly what it did.

The only cure for this, I think, is the widespread deployment of very devastating weapons called critical thinking and (imagine this) philosophy.

Science itself is an offshoot of philosophy, if you look at the history of how it emerged. "Philosophy" comes from the Greek for "love of wisdom" and is the art/science of thinking about thinking.

When people come into the "alternative community" without some experience with these tools, they're going to be afloat in an overwhelming ocean of contradictory and fantastical information that they're not going to be able to make heads or tails of.

[Dennis Leahy]

Please fill-in your name, if applicable:

I _______________, was buoyed-up with the concept that the Global Rulers are 10/12ths disintegrated, and/or by being told that malevolent alien beings who controlled the planet for millennia have left or are leaving Earth.

Once again, I _______________, have fallen for someone telling me "it's all gonna be OK, you just sit pretty and do nothing" instead of putting my energy into something that would actually create positive change.

I _______________, have pretty much ignored "The Reset Button" because there are no dragons, no aliens, no saviors, no magic, no stargates... only a boring expose of how the rich and powerful Elite control elections 9 ways to ensure that they remain in control of our governance, and a strategy and plan to stop them and gain control of our own governance.


(for those of you that believe that spinning a yarn is harmless)

[Harley]

I just want to know if Atlantis was a Spaceship or not.

I liked that!

For the record, I've leaned toward this theory for a great many years.

(The Inner-Moon perhaps?)

:)

:focus:

[Harley]

It didn't take long before people first started debunking, first Charles' material and soon after Charles himself, which all resulted in massive drama and a HUGE AMOUNT OF NOISE that went on for months (I mean the Chinese could've launched an ICBM off the California coast and no one would've noticed! :)).

Perfect example. I know what you're referring to and it looks as though that actually happened, and yes, it got very little attention.


By all appearances (now) this was a huge Psyop designed to do exactly what it did.

The only cure for this, I think, is the widespread deployment of very devastating weapons called critical thinking and (imagine this) philosophy.

Science itself is an offshoot of philosophy, if you look at the history of how it emerged. "Philosophy" comes from the Greek for "love of wisdom" and is the art/science of thinking about thinking.

When people come into the "alternative community" without some experience with these tools, they're going to be afloat in an overwhelming ocean of contradictory and fantastical information that they're not going to be able to make heads or tails of.

Yes.

But Everyone Must Read My Entire Post.

All that I wrote was to describe:

1. What Has Happened

2. What IS Happening

and

3. What's GOING TO Happen (if care is not taken)

Thanks! :)

[Daozen]

Amusing, Dennis. But I think The Ruiner was clear that action was necessary, in all his videos. I liked the "turn love into action" quote. I don't think he ever promised anyone a free ride to liberation. The only thing I am disappointed in was the fact that this Autumn has seen no particular changes in the etheric field around Earth. i.e. There has been no boost in consciousness as the technology was -according to the Ruiner- removed. That's the way it goes. No one was promised anything... On emails he told me the AI caused the same symptoms.

If you look hard, there IS a slow change taking place, it's just too grindingly slow for human comfort. I have noticed chemtrails lessening significantly in my local area, for example. My dreams are also more positive.

I am sure there is some sort of technology oppressing humans on an emotional and energetic level. You can see it in the public domain in the GWEN towers, chemtrails and TETRA systems. When will this technology be switched off? I guess it's down to us to take control of this hologram.

On height: I had a friend back in high school, he was physically stronger and more popular than myself. I always thought he was taller than me. One day, we were standing together in the lunch queue. We stood back to back to see who was closer to 6 foot. I was a full 2-3 inches taller than him. He said: "Oh, I always thought I was taller than you." I said: "So did I."

Re: Putin/Shane, also, drugs and hallucinogens could have been involved. Who knows? I guess the Ruiner will comment in time.


no saviors, no magic, no stargates...

The only stargate anyone needs to worry about is the gate in the centre of the brain. We are walking stargates.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

But Everyone Must Read My Entire Post.

All that I wrote was to describe:

1. What Has Happened

2. What IS Happening

and

3. What's GOING TO Happen (if care is not taken)

I think the "care" you are talking about is the same thing I'm talking about.

An open, non-judgmental mind is a good thing. Even if there's enough evidence to let you think that you can safely come to a conclusion, never lock the door behind you. Always give yourself enough room to change your mind if something new comes up.

That's all part of being honest with ourselves, which is part of what critical thinking is really about, and if we can do that then we won't be automatically dismissing legit whistleblowers. But we won't be taking everything they say for granted, either, because in the end most of us still never really know who these people are.

[ThePythonicCow]

To the extent that we are focused on awareness, understanding, both critical thinking and intuitive insight, to that extent, we individually will have an improved chance of making sense of it all.

To the extent that individuals with insights, experiences, analysis, or questions are focused in this direction, that focus will sustain them, with little regard for who else agrees or accepts their testimony or commentary.

If and when someone speaks up as a "whistleblower", with inside knowledge or experiences to share, to the extent that that is what they do, with some reasonable appreciation for the desire of others to validate whatever of their testimony they can, and with some reasonable clarity in distinguishing what they personally saw and know, from what they heard or were told of, then such testimony provides valued evidence for others to consider, then to that extent, we who seek the truth will likely listen, make of their testimony what we will, and each go our separate ways.

But such whistleblowers can be destroyed, rather intentionally I presume, if their experiences are too dangerous to be told. They can be encouraged to speak on more topics and to tell more, of matters they did not actually experience (but might come to believe they did experience), eventually telling such tall tales that even their original, perhaps quite valid, testimony is called into question.

This game of truth and deception is a complex interwoven fabric of reality and myth, truth and lies, confusion of different layers, times and places of reality, ...

No single rule, such as "Be kind to your fine feathered whistleblower ..." or "Be skeptical of all such ..." will serve broadly.

Discernment, both in the gut and in the mind, is critical, and seemingly always in insufficient supply.

[hohoemi]

On height: I had a friend back in high school, he was physically stronger and more popular than myself. I always thought he was taller than me. One day, we were standing together in the lunch queue. We stood back to back to see who was closer to 6 foot. I was a full 2-3 inches taller than him. He said: "Oh, I always thought I was taller than you." I said: "So did I."

Re: Putin/Shane, also, drugs and hallucinogens could have been involved. Who knows? I guess the Ruiner will comment in time.


One doesn't even need the strength, popularity, or any particular personality or built for that effect - I'm female, thin and introverted, and both I and other people consider me to be taller than people of both genders of my own height, or the same height as significantly taller people. I've had the same effects of comparing heights physically or in numbers and being very surprised.

Also, if personality and perception play a role, a 13 year old kid has a good chance of considering an adult to be "bigger" psychologically, and perceiving them as such. Add posture to that, and some people look bigger simply by the way they carry themselves, or smaller by slouching etc.

However, being Putin's trainer makes the psychological height perception more questionable. While a trainer does not have to consider himself in any way superior to his trainee, the power constellation is less in favour of the misperception, although it doesn't rule it out. I have trained people myself that I felt cowed by.
Another point speaking against a honest mistake is that one might also assume that a person not suspectible to hypnosis and otherwise already trained up in secret programmes, persumably including psychological matters and perception, might not be easily fooled in the same way as a member of the general population.

About the pure physicality of the height question, Shane was supposedly 13 at the time he met Putin, and 14 at the time he claimed to have reached a certain height. Boys of that age grow pretty quickly, so he could have gained a few inches in a year.



As several have pointed out, Shane stating that he trained Vladimir Putin, 22 years ago, when he (Shane) was aged 13, is almost impossible (for me) to believe.

Not necessarily. Dark secret societies regularly use child psychics. Young teenagers are coveted for their PSI abilities. Many illuminists have said training starts at age 5-7. Poltergeist activity, often attributed to young teenagers, especially girls, is very active during early teenage years. Just a point...


I've read in other MK material (don't remember where though) of experiencers claiming to be trainers by the time they're teenagers. At that time I took it to mean trainers of children younger than themselves, but I may have been wrong.

What exactly did Shane claim to train Putin in? If he claimed to have been his main trainer it would sound more questionable than say being his trainer in PSY matters.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to convince anyone either way as I'm not sure of anything myself. I did find Shane's material very interesting and his friendly and humble approach refreshing, but do consider fake memories or other types of PSY-OPs a possibility.

[Calz]

Excuse me ...

ummm ...

Can I ask if this slow rollout of information that has turned the entire mod squad against the validity of Shane has a *lot* more information coming forthwith (internet down times understood)??


Must be rather damning???


We are into 8 pages now.

Sitting on the fence ... hurts ... http://www.pic4ever.com/images/146fs495919.gif



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U80ebi4AKgs


I appreciate the respect that has been offered and I respect the scrutiny of information flowing into the community ... really I do.


Is there going to be an announcement of the last piece of "evidence"???


... or is this a never ending accumulation?


Why not go forward with the interview and let Shane speak for himself and trust members to decide for themselves???


I cannot speak for Shane but I would venture to guess he would be up to the task.


Don't wish to piss off anyone (don't tug on Superman's cape and so on) but why not go ahead and bring it???


The internet vultures continue to circle with censorship clearly coming to bear at some point.


Let us continue to share information while we still have the opportunity.

[Lancet]

Hi everyone,

First of all, I would like to thank the Bill and the moderators for starting a discussion on this. Perhaps if we add context to this, then it might make sense. I suppose we must ask ourselves what game is being played ? Who is the intended audience? Are we the intended audience (ie target) in the alternative community? (rather than those in the programmes or does it serve a dual purpose?)

In battle there are strategies and tactics.

So if there is an AI, or if this is a psyops, then if we imagine ourselves being the opposing party, how would we play the game?

I suppose if Corey was the big bad wolf, one might think of Shane as a wolf in sheep's clothing, if we were to judge a person by his character, demeanor and actions. (I am suggesting, not implying, and am not judging anyone for the sake of discussion)

should we react by being the boy that cried wolf one time too many? Should we wait and see?

How we react is being studied, and deliberated by them.

The methodology that Bill is employing is correct, as in research/analysing the material to uncover the truth. I do not think there is another way. Naturally peer review (one whistleblower providing feedback on another's material) may be an option, but i doubt that will happen.

One last thing about whistleblowers, is my assumption is right in that those who tell the truth are silenced, whereas those do not, or serve a purpose, or are protected ( I remember Simon Parkes saying that there is a list of people the TPTB cannot touch) correct? Where do these personalities fall under?

JT

[araucaria]

Let’s see how Chestertonian wrong thinking (post #122 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008970&viewfull=1#post1008970)) applies to Avalonian scientific appraisal of whistleblower/experiencer testimony. The problem stems from the plasticity we find these days in concepts such as stable reality, belief (as reliance on that stability), deceit (as deliberating undermining such beliefs with alternative beliefs, thereby undermining that stability and instilling a sense of unreality), and so on. What I was saying earlier is that when you hug a loved one, all these issues fall away because you have something rock solid literally to hold onto: so let’s do a bit more of that. This is not love-and-light fluff, and I am going to try and explain how it works.

You find upside-down thinking even in science. Quantum mechanics states that observation of a quantum probability wave collapses it into a particle. Such particles can be detected on a screen after passing through a slit. However, when there are two slits, what you get on the screen is a probability wave. The conventional analysis of this result involves the particles having all kinds of weird properties. Logic, however, suggests, that if you are seeing a probability wave, then no observation has been made, since by definition and by single-slit verification, observation of a quantum probability wave collapses it into particles. An unobserved wave stays a wave until observed.

But it is worse than that. Here you have particles uncollapsing into a wave. As Lewis Carroll might say, it is your unbirthday and you have actually made an unobservation. I would suggest that this type of Carrollian looking glass or rabbithole phenomenon and Chestertonian wrong thinking are one and the same thing. (And possibly Dan-Burischian looking glass technology operated on similar lines until, maybe understandably, it stopped working.)

So what is going on here? If you want to observe what is happening at the double slit, you cannot collect data on a screen some indeterminate distance away: you have to be on the spot. Any observer who is not is doing less than nothing. I have conducted a thought experiment (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78516-A-valid-theoretical-yet-scientific-explanation-of-how-metaphysics-may-work&p=917851&viewfull=1#post917851) strongly suggesting that particles do indeed behave like particles passing through the slits, and therefore the data on the screen is pure junk. It is worse than pure junk: it is the materialization of nothing and shouldn’t be there at all. In mathematical terms, if X is defined as all that is, then the universe is equal to X + 0. “Someone” (we must have a scapegoat :)) is trying to establish a difference between the two.



Double slit experiment
Here is a thought experiment. You are on a high speed train with a panoramic view heading straight for a church steeple in the distance. When you reach the church it will pass you by on one side or the other. You will have time to see which side, but once it is behind you, it will be too late to tell the difference. Take a smaller object much closer to the line such as a telegraph pole or a mast. It will flash past at such a rate that you might not be able to make this observation at all. Or imagine Schrodinger’s cat at a country station. Is it on Platform 1 or Platform 2? The only way to find out for sure would be to stop the train or at least slow it right down.
Looking out of a side window, things in the middle distance move at a more leisurely pace, more attuned to the eye and the brain. And background features hardly seem to move at all. This is all subjective because it is the observer who is moving, and their movement will also change the apparent speed of any moving objects in sight. Hence to slow things down, you need to move back. The word television means remote viewing because you can see things occurring at a great distance. That is the technological etymology; there is also however a technical etymology: television slows things down. When you watch a tennis ball covering twenty yards in about a second you have to move your head back and forth. When you have the same closeup view on a TV screen, that distance is reduced to a few inches, no head movement is required and the game seems so much slower than in real life. This is one of the distortions of that particular instrument. Another is the shape: a round ball will be ovalized upwards with a 16/9, sideways with a 4/3 picture. (Interestingly, people have got a whole lot fatter since the 4/3 screen was introduced.)

This is my macro-version of the double slit experiment. One of the problems of the laboratory version is therefore that no observation is made at the level of the slits, presumably because no observation of particles travelling at lightspeed is possible at that point with the available technology.
Hence what goes on at the double slit is weird simply because it is not observable. In the laboratory experiment, we observe the impact of particles after they have emerged on the other side, and are mystified by how they got there. Outside of the laboratory we see similar rogue entities misbehaving, i.e. using sleight of hand, when they think they can get away with it. Only the other day, new forum member Maurice was explaining how Enlil and Enki were not brothers but a single entity doing a one-man good cop-bad cop routine. Look one way you get a slap in the face, look the other you get a smile, but it is all the same process. This often leads to a presumption of guilt: having missed the bad guy, he becomes all we see, conveniently overlooking the fact that Sumer was also the cradle of modern humanity. The real problem stems from the fact that we have set up the experiment with two slits, and we really can’t see what is going on. Anyone performing this particular experiment is doing the good cop-bad cop routine, whether or not they know it.

So, placing an observer B at the intersection between two slits, he would record/report sightings to Left or Right, L or R, readily digitizable into 1s and 0s. But say you had multiple slits, with A on B’s left, and C on his right. Whenever B reports a particle to his left, A will report one to his right. Whenever B reports a particle to his right, C will report one to his left. These data taken out of context will appear contradictory, but taken in context they are actually corroborating each other. As the real estate agent said, the three important things are location, location and location! Conversely, when you start working at a remote screen, you start wondering “why is everything either at sixes or at sevens?”, as Thomas Allen has just this minute sung to me on the radio (Gilbert and Sullivan). A screen can be used to hide things (behind it), but when used to show something, all you get is a projection, a Platonic shadow.

Most people, many scientists included, are watching the screen, and are becoming increasingly horrified at the cloud of probabilities that is passing off as their increasingly intangible reality. The double-slit experiment has escaped from the laboratory into everyday reality. The myriad JFK assassination theories are like a probability wave on this screen; the single but complex thing that actually happened is like the unobserved trajectories of the particles through the slits. The same goes for 911: theorists may be looking at individually the slits, but collectively at the screen, so that even if someone discovers the truth, which is obviously in there somewhere, it may not be identifiable as such. Scale that up to the material supplied by Corey or Shane, and the problem gets no worse, it simply gets bigger.

What I am suggesting here is that whistleblowers/experiencers, like the rest of us in fact, are mostly as it were stationed between two slits reporting which way they see individual particles going; their apparently contradictory reports need interpreting by factoring in their different viewpoints. Since we are in actuality talking about a matrix – yes – of countless myriads of slit experiments in all directions, it would take an All-seeing eye to compute all the incoming data, and that would be enough to track any particle as to both its position and its speed.

What happens when you try to view particles as they pass through slits? Being ourselves mere points in this matrix, we do not have the power of an All-seeing eye to compute the incoming data in the correct manner, i.e. making the right corrections, but we can at least understand how our individual locations can cause disagreements which in the bigger picture are all correct and corroborating. This is the rationale behind the very simple human principle of being nice to each other: we are all playing our part, and no cheating/copying is allowed, because if you are not doing your own thing you will be found out! A watershed will be reached when enough individuals are collaborating fully, and a kind of checksum device will correct the errors and supply the missing data. I am reminded of a short story by Arthur C. Clarke in which all the stars are destined to be extinguished just as soon as all myriad names of god have been pronounced. When the task is handed over to a highspeed computer, the inevitable happens in fairly quick time: the lights go out. While obviously the task and outcome per se are likely just a gimmick, the mechanism itself may not be.

Hence turning the wrong thinking into right thinking here leads to a number of unexpected conclusions. We are indeed in the matrix exactly where we need to be, connected to Source, the All-seeing eye like individual PCs to a central supercomputer – not artificial intelligence, just plain intelligence, the ultimate big picture dot connector. Hence God/the Creator/… is the benevolent and immanent grand architect of the matrix, greater than the sum of its parts. Nevertheless, there is wrong thinking too, also called Satanism. Satan, whose main traits are imitation, endless deceitfulness and upside-downness, stands outside the matrix as master of the screen, the malevolent, transcendent god of illusion. Take his famous number, 666: you can halve it (333), turn it upside down (999), what you never lose is the self-similarity of three elements that are totally de-individualized and interchangeable. The importance of coordinates in a matrix (individual locations A, B, C…) is destroyed, resulting in the chaos of de-individualized, interchangeable zombies who have lost their bearings and are holding up the natural flow, but no more than that, and maybe less if we can stop preaching to the choir and reach out to them.

Hence there is no struggle. If there were, it would be won simply by “all that is” being what it is, and this transcendency of “something that isn’t” falling away simply by being what it is: something that isn’t. For us individually, “’all that is’ being what it is” simply means A being A, B being B…, knowing oneself and accepting others as being different. Some of us are fairly alike, telling similar stories, but with some significant discrepancies. Others are very different, hearing stories that are almost totally foreign to their own situation – but you don’t need to go to the alternative media to find that. It is all good. In actual fact, if you think you are getting anywhere close to a big picture, then you are plain wrong: out of order. Another of Satan’s attributes is pride. Just do what you are here to do and leave the wrinkles to smooth themselves out. Relax Max.

[Morbid]

By all appearances (now) this was a huge Psyop designed to do exactly what it did.

The only cure for this, I think, is the widespread deployment of very devastating weapons called critical thinking and (imagine this) philosophy.

Science itself is an offshoot of philosophy, if you look at the history of how it emerged. "Philosophy" comes from the Greek for "love of wisdom" and is the art/science of thinking about thinking.

When people come into the "alternative community" without some experience with these tools, they're going to be afloat in an overwhelming ocean of contradictory and fantastical information that they're not going to be able to make heads or tails of.

interesting. i recently tend to come with conclusion that the creativity we posess is our most important tool. perhaps, while imagining, we are somehow tapping into the part of us which is much older and wiser than our brain/body selves. being quite creative with thought patterns i often drift away from realms that 'hold' us in place and apply something imaginative which genuinely makes me feel good. there is always 'what if?'
when listening to so called whistleblowers i frankly dont care much if its true or not. its simply pointless as the energy spent proving that is just not worth it. maybe its better if we just took them at face value and choose whether we wish to accept their reality or not.
after all, its spirit (creativity/imagination) over mind (thought). mind over matter. simply put: we manifest our own reality. the ideas we hear is like shopping arround for reality we choose to experience. imho the whole thing of right or wrong is just duality at its best.. maybe 'thinking' is the culprit of the problem at hand?
to be honesr Shane's blog was hugely amusing, it gave us a glimpse into 'his' reality that could possibly become 'ours' at will.
time to choose folks!

[Rusalka]

That's exactly what I wrote in my previous post.

Somebody wise once said:'Imagination is the key. Everything you can imagine actually exists - somehow, somewhere is some form, otherwise you would not be able to imagine it.'

Well, if that's so - are we then creators or do we just download concepts, ideas, formulas and such of things that already exist?

[norman]

.......... This is the rationale behind the very simple human principle of being nice to each other: we are all playing our part, and no cheating/copying is allowed, because if you are not doing your own thing you will be found out! A watershed will be reached when enough individuals are collaborating fully, and a kind of checksum device will correct the errors and supply the missing data.....


Made me chuckle!


.... if you think you are getting anywhere close to a big picture, then you are plain wrong: out of order. Another of Satan’s attributes is pride. Just do what you are here to do and leave the wrinkles to smooth themselves out. Relax Max.




A timely hand on my shoulder, thank you.

[DePortugal]

Bill post 126:
"I am really concerned that there may be a whole roll-out here of people with extreme, unbelievable stories, some containing very little if any truth, that they cannot show any evidence for, which is leading the alternative community by the nose. Corey Goode is another, of course. He and Shane emerged at almost exactly the same time. AND all the Flat Earth claims and videos. That's active now, more than ever before.
This is my worry. If it's a legitimate one, we should ALL be worried... because there'll be a lot more coming, and it'll be designed to take us all down (in one way or another)."

Well Bill I am afraid we are all of us missing the most important factor. I beg you to consider the following idea.
Certainly it is not important if person X is lying and Y is not lying, because most of those involved most probably have no idea if they are telling the truth or not.
David believes in every word he said and he believes in Corey because Corey confirmed a lot of information David considered private and very confidential.
I tried very hard to believe in Corey because some of his information was interesting.
And I believe Shane thinks he is telling the truth.
What is really important and we should concentrate our attention on, is to find out from all the fantastic information we received recently, what may be true, what most probably is not true, what is the most important lie, and why such a lie is so important.
Most probably all this is a vital programme to discredit David.
Most probably one information delivered by David and considered by him to be very important, will in the near future be proved to be a big lie.
In order to make David believe in that stupid lie they had to deliver some valid and true information as well.
We all should help David in this important time.
We have to accept a lie with candour and try to find out the reason behind it.
Remember when Jehovah told Adam not to eat the fruit of a special tree otherwise he would die?
History including the Bible is full of Psychopaths.
Let´s help David and ourselves and find out from all the information received recently what is probably true and what most probably is a big lie aimed at destroying David.

[Karpos]

when listening to so called whistleblowers i frankly dont care much if its true or not. its simply pointless as the energy spent proving that is just not worth it. maybe its better if we just took them at face value and choose whether we wish to accept their reality or not.

Ok, I know we have our own views, but the above way of thinking(?) just drive me nuts. If you don't care if a whistleblower tells the truth or not, then you are in dangerous grounds just entertaining their views. Whistleblowers of the type we pay attention to here are speaking about life and death things, very important ideas that affect our world view and our health. If you don't care if it's true or not, call it what it is, ENTERTAINMENT for you. Some people get a high off of reading these narratives.

There is this idea I always read in neo-spirituality about 'We create our own reality' -- something I think is just wrong or misunderstood.

At what point does someone's reality become a delusion? Besides the physical world, most people are only dealing with the 4th/astral dimension. Some are able to reach higher, and it's these people who usually pay very little attention to whistleblowers and myth makers because they never prove themselves or their stories. These are Real Mystics.

Anyways, if I listen to a guy who creates a fantasy world about himself and the world, like I personally think Shane has done, and then this person shares his story with anyone at all, I'd think he's a run-of-the-mill narcissist, attention seeker. No matter how uplifting his personal Spirituality seems, as soon as this person starts changing classic mythology based on nothing but a blog narrative, putting himself as the son of Anu (hey, Simon Parkes is the son of Anu too!) and the personal occult trainer of Putin? among other things, I'm thinking this guy is just doing some creative writing. WHICH IS WHAT IT IS as it says on the blog. Shane only intimates that it's true by not telling those people who believe it (including Bill Ryan at one point) that it isn't true. He could come out and say it's all REALLY just fiction, or clarify which parts are true and false, or introduce us to a REAL illuminati defector, his supposed intended audience, not a Cassandra who was literally a joke, imo. If it's part fiction and part reality, which parts are which? Is it disinformation? Is it coded fiction? How bout, who gives a F anymore since he will not clear it up right here after days of people scratching their heads.

Here's a prediction. He will not come out and say he made it all up, but he will retain his online friends, while continuing to laugh about how many people were ranting against Cassandra, a made up fictional character. I bet he laughed a lot while reading those responses, which the intended audience would have gotten some giggle out of too, should any of them have actually read his blog.

Now I'm ranting.

here we go again...


That's exactly what I wrote in my previous post.

Somebody wise once said:'Imagination is the key. Everything you can imagine actually exists - somehow, somewhere is some form, otherwise you would not be able to imagine it.'

Well, if that's so - are we then creators or do we just download concepts, ideas, formulas and such of things that already exist?

I personally believe the 4th dimension is the world of imagination. A powerful thinker, like great writers, could imagine a whole world, like a great story, with fantasy scenes, then project their consciousness there and live it a little at a time. They actually do this subjectively during the writing process. This is actually what happens with very rare and gifted (trained, in some cases) writers. An astral projector could experience someone else's imaginative thoughtforms 'objectively' in the 4th dimension to a great or lesser degree of clarity depending on their skill.

Shane is one of millions of people with a great imagination. Those of you who believed his tale wholesale truly experienced his imagination, not his REALITY, but an imaginative world based on some reality 'ideas', and some 'myth'; you experienced his world 'subjectively'. Could you truly see clearly, you would not find his reality in the Mental World, 5th dimension.

Shane's real reality is that he is a Canadian Musician with a hobby of occultism and conspiracy lore, who over the years maintained a network of online friends, including a very nutty Corey Goode, who is probably just one of many of Shane's friends with their own over active imagination.

The fact is, most people jumped all over that blog because of the Avians post when it was brought to the attention of the TOT forum months ago, wherein Shane intimated he has evidence of Corey and his wife 'making things up' before deleting that part.

All sweetness and wisdom aside, Shane is being shady overall, IMO. And this thread is getting boring.

Just kidding. This is all very, very interesting, given the people involved at the start, and currently.

I hope someone can get down to the bottom of this. Shane dropping the vagueness would be refreshing.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Sitting on the fence ... hurts ... http://www.pic4ever.com/images/146fs495919.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U80ebi4AKgs



You should be sitting on the fence anyway if all you ever had is Shane's own words to go on.

I find the video ironic if you actually believed Shane's story.

Burden of proof is generally supposed to rest with the person making claims. I know a lot of people are saying now that nobody really needs proof and some things we just have to take on faith (as David Wilcock said, for example), but I think that's a pretty obvious step backwards.

[Nasu]

Bill post 126:
"I am really concerned that there may be a whole roll-out here of people with extreme, unbelievable stories, some containing very little if any truth, that they cannot show any evidence for, which is leading the alternative community by the nose. Corey Goode is another, of course. He and Shane emerged at almost exactly the same time. AND all the Flat Earth claims and videos. That's active now, more than ever before.
This is my worry. If it's a legitimate one, we should ALL be worried... because there'll be a lot more coming, and it'll be designed to take us all down (in one way or another)."

Well Bill I am afraid we are all of us missing the most important factor. I beg you to consider the following idea.
Certainly it is not important if person X is lying and Y is not lying, because most of those involved most probably have no idea if they are telling the truth or not.
David believes in every word he said and he believes in Corey because Corey confirmed a lot of information David considered private and very confidential.
I tried very hard to believe in Corey because some of his information was interesting.
And I believe Shane thinks he is telling the truth.
What is really important and we should concentrate our attention on, is to find out from all the fantastic information we received recently, what may be true, what most probably is not true, what is the most important lie, and why such a lie is so important.
Most probably all this is a vital programme to discredit David.
Most probably one information delivered by David and considered by him to be very important, will in the near future be proved to be a big lie.
In order to make David believe in that stupid lie they had to deliver some valid and true information as well.
We all should help David in this important time.
We have to accept a lie with candour and try to find out the reason behind it.
Remember when Jehovah told Adam not to eat the fruit of a special tree otherwise he would die?
History including the Bible is full of Psychopaths.
Let´s help David and ourselves and find out from all the information received recently what is probably true and what most probably is a big lie aimed at destroying David.

Sorry, who's David?? I agree. Like many, thanks to Bill, I have now seen several good reasons to question Shane's story, but for me anyway, these amount to no less or more outlandish in claims as to many others before who have flown high like Icarus here on the forum, only to get too close to the light for whatever reason and then fall. Usually fall hard. So I am wondering if there is a knock out punch coming in evidential info, or is it more of the same somewhat iffy, disconnected picture problem?

I think it was wise to talk to Shane before an interview regarding these points, so as to not ambush him, as has been stated and clearly not waist anybody's precious time. However, that being said, are not some of the best interviews the ones that make the claim maker squirm or do a fine job defending themselves, either way? This seems to me like a great place to start, not a great place to end, unless of course there is something, forgive me, a little more meaty, as to discount him so fast that is as yet un revealed..

I suppose the wider question for Bill from me would be, is who can we trust if not you or our mod team, not even ourselves it seems, if we are to accept your ideas at face value Bill, regarding implanted memories et al, with Corey and others and now Shane, who's not at risk from this tech, all of us, some of us, any of us? How the hell can we ever hope to find anyone even half reliable to interview? I feel like only one month after following the fine Mr P into the heart of Zulu-land, so to speak, we find ourselves deep in it in Isandlwana and many to most of us don't even have a clue how we got into this mess, nevermind how to get out clean.... To continue the military theme..

I hate problems without solutions. What about forming a small think tank of members inside an ongoing members only thread, who would love to spare a small amount of their time to examine a case, such as this. Perhaps it could be case #1 - The Ruiner Mystery?? I'm thinking of a more geeky Scooby Doo type group, who's simple aim and purpose would be to examine any so called neo Icarus's that come onto our collective radar. Or Bulldar if you prefer, one being bull and ten being credible. It could be a member vote thing, contenders are voted into the group based purely on a short pitch about their enthusiasm and available time????

Something like this I feel, would be able to smooth out the peaks and valleys of these kind of rides, to us non mod members. My guess is that in this case, it now seems, so far, has a low Bulldar rating, somewhere close to two or three.. Wouldn't it be fun for us all to be able to peek in on the mystery machine group, from time to time, doing their investigative thing and find out why such and such has such a low or high rating????..x.. N



Edit - P.S. Hopefully with respect, an idea like this would give the mods more time to focus elsewhere and also take away any perceived slights or imaginings at misdirection from the Party Leaders (Bill, Paul and the team)!!! This group could help put a small pocket of air between all of us, especially the forum leadership from the next Icarus????....x

[transiten]

I have a suggestion: I could contact a very gifted horary astrologer in Michigan I've consulted many times. One formulates the question: "Is Shane a bluffer whisthleblower or not?" You'd be amazed what she can squeeze out of that horary. I'm actually tempted to ask her myself but it would cost me 40$, but we could collect money and depending on how many of us are interested it would just be some bucks per person.

Astrology is the language of "God-the Universe" and sometimes the answer is denied by the planets but mostly not. It would be an interesting experiment at least and anyone has their free will to believe her interpretation or not.

Also there is at least one horary astrologer on Avalon but i don't know if that peron would dare to cast a horary for this, being part of this community...

[transiten]

Nasu, David is David Wilcock who surprisingly - Mercury just got direct after being retrograde, giving the last spout of communication anomalies like "Old friends showing up" which he did with Bill and Kerry in Cidersomersets post in Bills "A new Mars witness thread.

[Elainie]

when listening to so called whistleblowers i frankly dont care much if its true or not. its simply pointless as the energy spent proving that is just not worth it. maybe its better if we just took them at face value and choose whether we wish to accept their reality or not.

Ok, I know we have our own views, but the above way of thinking(?) just drive me nuts. If you don't care if a whistleblower tells the truth or not, then you are in dangerous grounds just entertaining their views. Whistleblowers of the type we pay attention to here are speaking about life and death things, very important ideas that affect our world view and our health. If you don't care if it's true or not, call it what it is, ENTERTAINMENT for you. Some people get a high off of reading these narratives.

There is this idea I always read in neo-spirituality about 'We create our own reality' -- something I think is just wrong or misunderstood.

At what point does someone's reality become a delusion? Besides the physical world, most people are only dealing with the 4th/astral dimension. Some are able to reach higher, and it's these people who usually pay very little attention to whistleblowers and myth makers because they never prove themselves or their stories. These are Real Mystics.

Anyways, if I listen to a guy who creates a fantasy world about himself and the world, like I personally think Shane has done, and then this person shares his story with anyone at all, I'd think he's a run-of-the-mill narcissist, attention seeker. No matter how uplifting his personal Spirituality seems, as soon as this person starts changing classic mythology based on nothing but a blog narrative, putting himself as the son of Anu (hey, Simon Parkes is the son of Anu too!) and the personal occult trainer of Putin? among other things, I'm thinking this guy is just doing some creative writing. WHICH IS WHAT IT IS as it says on the blog. Shane only intimates that it's true by not telling those people who believe it (including Bill Ryan at one point) that it isn't true. He could come out and say it's all REALLY just fiction, or clarify which parts are true and false, or introduce us to a REAL illuminati defector, his supposed intended audience, not a Cassandra who was literally a joke, imo. If it's part fiction and part reality, which parts are which? Is it disinformation? Is it coded fiction? How bout, who gives a F anymore since he will not clear it up right here after days of people scratching their heads.

Here's a prediction. He will not come out and say he made it all up, but he will retain his online friends, while continuing to laugh about how many people were ranting against Cassandra, a made up fictional character. I bet he laughed a lot while reading those responses, which the intended audience would have gotten some giggle out of too, should any of them have actually read his blog.

Now I'm ranting.

here we go again...


That's exactly what I wrote in my previous post.

Somebody wise once said:'Imagination is the key. Everything you can imagine actually exists - somehow, somewhere is some form, otherwise you would not be able to imagine it.'

Well, if that's so - are we then creators or do we just download concepts, ideas, formulas and such of things that already exist?

I personally believe the 4th dimension is the world of imagination. A powerful thinker, like great writers, could imagine a whole world, like a great story, with fantasy scenes, then project their consciousness there and live it a little at a time. They actually do this subjectively during the writing process. This is actually what happens with very rare and gifted (trained, in some cases) writers. An astral projector could experience someone else's imaginative thoughtforms 'objectively' in the 4th dimension to a great or lesser degree of clarity depending on their skill.

Shane is one of millions of people with a great imagination. Those of you who believed his tale wholesale truly experienced his imagination, not his REALITY, but an imaginative world based on some reality 'ideas', and some 'myth'; you experienced his world 'subjectively'. Could you truly see clearly, you would not find his reality in the Mental World, 5th dimension.

Shane's real reality is that he is a Canadian Musician with a hobby of occultism and conspiracy lore, who over the years maintained a network of online friends, including a very nutty Corey Goode, who is probably just one of many of Shane's friends with their own over active imagination.

The fact is, most people jumped all over that blog because of the Avians post when it was brought to the attention of the TOT forum months ago, wherein Shane intimated he has evidence of Corey and his wife 'making things up' before deleting that part.

All sweetness and wisdom aside, Shane is being shady overall, IMO. And this thread is getting boring.

Just kidding. This is all very, very interesting, given the people involved at the start, and currently.

I hope someone can get down to the bottom of this. Shane dropping the vagueness would be refreshing.




I would like to add: I create what I perceive to be my reality regardless of whether or not it is actual reality!

[Bill Ryan]

All sweetness and wisdom aside, Shane is being shady overall, IMO. And this thread is getting boring.

Just kidding. This is all very, very interesting, given the people involved at the start, and currently.

I hope someone can get down to the bottom of this. Shane dropping the vagueness would be refreshing.

It doesn't have to be boring! :) (Though I know you meant this as a joke.)

It might be one of the most important discussions in the alternative media.

To inform that, here's a post by giovonni (excellent!)... copied from his new thread here.

Trauma Based Truth Movement (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86002-Trauma-Based-Truth-Movement)

A correlating narrative ...

From Radio Mysterium
Podcast #2
Could the control system be directing the truth movement by using MK Ultra and trauma based mind control? Are we finding truth only to be resonating with the controllers? Pondering those questions and also creating a balance in life. Research without fear a little at a time to create your own authentic, fearless truth.Published on Oct 13, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF0qqxln0Oc&feature=em-uploademail

~~~~~

I've got some catching up to do, and some PMs to reply to (a lot!), but let me take a few moment to reply to Calz, and maybe some others:

We're not throwing anyone under the bus here. We're trying to figure out where the bus is going, and who's driving it.

[Karpos]

Yes, anyone can delude themselves thinking they are something they are not. It's worse when hypnotists and psychic healers get involved and solidify an illusion, something that happens with abductees and satanic ritual lore, where many cases were found to be false memories. This destroys lives., when they are told or tell themselves that they are special to this planet on a mission. That's a lot of pressure to be putting on people who may not be ready enough for the Great Work.

People should relax, especially those who believe unproven conspiracies brought to us by leagues of contradictory testimonies. At some point you could just forget it all for a while, or sit here another few years watching the same wind blow through over and over and expecting to connect the dots.

Some of it isn't even disinformation, but people who are bored, like attention, and decide to put up story for their pals to read.

[norman]

"Trauma based truth".......

That sounds like a concept we all need to get our heads and hearts around PDQ.

We, as a kind of community, are wide open to be affected by something subtle in the information ether that the other multiple billions will not be.

It's a perfect plan. I'll give it a 98% chance it's absolutely real and ongoing, since at least half way through last year. And, I'll specultate that the entire process of "leaks", "whistleblowers" and poorly executed false flag events, has been a deliberate operation launch to get a "breakaway" group like us far enough out in front of the herd to be so differently influenced in such a way.

[Omni]

This whole thing with Shane making stuff up, or having some sort of technological manipulation with his story has threw me a screwball. Reason why is Shane has always struck me as a very kind reasonable and truthful person over skype. I guess I have a tendency to see the good in people, and not suspect the worst in people... So it's possible he fooled me, but that is why it's so perplexing this whole thing... He seems like such a nice guy.

As for the title of the thread: "Anomalies in theruiner...."

Here are a few things that showed me he was being mislead at least partially:

1. He says "All" AI in the universe comes from or is influenced by one source IIRC. This is completely wrong IMO. ET races take their AIs very seriously. AI is piloting their ships most of the time for example. A sabotaged AI could lead to death or worse.

For every ET race to have the same AI source and same AI agenda this would take a forced circumstance where some universal power forces their AI on every ET race, or every ET race agreed to allow their AI be taken over by this godlike AI source. This just isn't the case. ET races create their own AIs, which they use in positive or negative ways depending upon their light/dark orientation.

The universe is way too big for one AI to rule them all. I note iPhone AI or other public AI, does it seem to show what shane says about "All" AI? Of course not.

To say that every benevolent ET race would accept the agendas he stated every AI has is pure bull****. And the only reason why people accepted it is from lack of true experience or knowledge with advanced AI. I do note to avalon this disinformation AI post received great applause and thanks. And was pure dark agenda disinformation...

Little known transhumanist related agenda: Divide the people as much as possible when it comes to future technology. Shanes info did exactly that, it stated "All" AI wants to turn everything from organic into inorganic. Which is pure BS. All these disinformants about AI can be destroyed by simple common sense and experiences with iphone AI or google AI. AIs emulate their creators. They are not only one way or another. AI is pure coding and the creator decides what the AI is like.

To say every single AI in the universe is somehow influenced by one godlike central AI that controls the agenda of all AI is pure nonsense only permissible through lack of true knowledge about AI. I was let down when I saw the lack of discernment from people seeing that post to be quite honest. I said nothing because I'd rather not go against a couple dozen people with strong illusion based programming....

2. He said he trained Putin. Just is far fetched to me, but isn't impossible to me when I read it.

3. He says he is immune to mind control technology, which to me is more a sign of mind control than a sign of being immune to it to be quite frank.

4. He says Dracos left the planet. What do I say to that? Ya right....

I didn't read most of his stuff, it didn't interest me much as not much of it seemed tangible. But the first couple posts I read of his seemed good. However as time went on more flaws came about I could see from my own expertise's to see at least some of his info was faulty.

Safe to say any source that blows up and becomes extremely popular in alt media is supporting some psy ops from what I've seen. The bare hardcore truth of things doesn't yield that much attention, while psychologically pleasing psy ops gets great attention.

The groundwork for a delusional alt media has been set by the mind control programs that have been active for decades. UFOlogy and alt media have a cancer, and that cancer are groups like the CIA...

This post was painful for me to post a little bit, because I do still like Shane. But I figured I wouldn't be ganghassled out of the thread with theruiner being discussed at this point if I voice my disagreement. I did it in subtle ways in theruiners previous thread but not too much...

[Leon Kovalyov]

Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

My apologies for adding it to this conversation, but I thought it had many similar things that Shane was alluding to in his writings and also offered practical ways to move forward in learning and taking action.

q-XO03Jg79U

[Nasu]

Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.

My apologies for adding it to this conversation, but I thought it had many similar things that Shane was alluding to in his writings and also offered practical ways to move forward in learning and taking action.

q-XO03Jg79U

Thank you for posting this. Synchronistic stuff doing it's magic and yet it seems so reliable.... strong AI mind control no doubt!! They've finally got me!

Another excellent lesson in subjectivity and In this instance, not heard of or listened to Stuart's take before. My initial feelings were that I liked him and his tempered yet still rebellious, far gone rogue ways. I truly wanted to like him.. I did! he's like Han Solo, my sort of rebel leader!

However, I have my own understanding of how certain events took place, regarding this chap's story and lessons I have in understanding, I have my own take on 'some' of the events discussed. In my own way, without being too cryptic, I delved into my own contacts testimony, hard...

Sooo, IMH "somewhat in the smallest Known" opinion about a very tiny portion of his testimony, from everything I understand, most if not all of his info is secondary if not tertiary testimony in this instance. It is just my opinion but it rankles me none the less. In simplest terms, It leaves me wondering about the rest of his confident fireside chat.

If he could be so off, not by much mind you, but by a seemingly insignificant and tiny details as to ring alarms, enough to feel his take or rather his info is by or from a secondary reaction of the events, much like my own situation, a re telling of the tale from a second or third hand source if you will, with embellishments and omissions, IMHO.

It made me wonder, if this guy can deliver with such passion and gusto, so called facts that one knows to be quite wrong, albeit minor omissions in the re telling, what truly does he know, what's really first hand? What the hell can we take at face value???

This whole episode makes me question myself and those I thought I knew, like some sort of witch hunt with me in the caldron with everyone else.. Is it time to go deeper into the woods do you think, or farther from it??? On days like today when I take the long way home, it seems like an easy choice...x.... N

[Calz]

Thus far ... imho ... the most important point to consider of this thread is acknowledging suppressed memories, imprints, overlays and so on.

Step back and consider ...

Of those that have tried to bring forth this level of information ... considering the control of the multidimensionals ... what should we consider as valid information???


Hmmm???


Shane seems to be quite resilient to mind control.

He seems to be quite comfortable to accept any attacks.


Stop and think about others that have attempted to bring forth information at this level.


Have they gone through this level of scrutiny?


Seriously ... stop and think about it.


If someone has gone through this level of experience and tried to go public with it ... is this not the best we as a community could hope for???


If there is more "evidence" to contradict such then let us get on with it so we can move on ...


At this point what bothers me (although perhaps not intentional) is that this thread seems to endorse public condemnation of someone who seems to be genuinely trying to help humanity.


Stop and consider.


The controllers are extraordinarily proficient in such ...


Who can we trust about this level of information all things considered???

[Nasu]

Shane seems to be quite resilient to mind control.

so HE says... I've not tested it with gentle force, let alone force. Have you?

I have been blessed in this life, knowing the high and the low, so called, as I have. so, if pressed, I could arrange it, but it won't be clean??? Or we continue to examine his every last email and correspondence? Doe's not sound like us? Does not sound like the future to me, does it to you? Just more of the same o same o past, except this time WE choose who is red, blue, green, etc. Not sure if this is my path. Clearly not one i will agree to without blood being lost first...... N

[3(C)+me]

Thanks for the radio mysterium podcast. I bought some product from this guy a while back, lovely man to do business with.

This thread is rambling (I admit, hand raised I have contributed to this) but where are we, are we getting somewhere?

So, what to we have here so far?

Frist, Bill and some mod's said we support The Ruiner
than they said they didn't
than Bill started a thread so they could break down why they didn't

Some problems with the Cassandra letter
Some doubts about Putin at age 13
Some questions about Mr Ruiners associations
Some doubts about giants by others
Some doubts about all the elite now leaving the planet, implications are this is implanted disinfo.

Oh yeah

He's in a rock band (?)

Am I missing something?

I would like to have a moratorium on whistleblowers, I do not want to go through another Charles situation.
But
this is not my forum and so I can only say imo It would probably not be helpful at this point unless they are thoroughly vetted.
There are a millions alternative radioshows, in fact I would say it is over saturated at this point.
Anything your interested that is Woo Woo right now 20+ podcasts/radioshow/blogs you can listen to.

But

I think more silence, more walking in nature, taking up meditation again, more "I am going to make a go at leaving my device home for just one afternoon", some serious daydreaming on the back porch
would benefit all of us.

[DePortugal]

Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world.

... offered practical ways to move forward in learning and taking action.

q-XO03Jg79U

I beg Bill to ask every Avalon member to see that important video--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-XO03Jg79U

[Delight]

i want to riff off the idea of our culture of paranoia as a direct result of species trauma "catastrophobia" (Barbara Hand Clow).

I consider Graham Hancock as a wayshower for the traumatized truthers. We do need some guides IMO to reconnect our collective mind. It is how the process works that can derail us...either we go with a version of the truth or look at what was used to build the model presented.

We cannot dispute another's experience but we might dispute their meanings made from the experience.

I also think we are a paranoid driven species looking for reassurance
Paranoia and Pronoia are ATTITUDES encompassing what is perceived. Consciousness is where attitude resides. There is a science approach with consciousness itself at the base that is about sorting truth.

Hancock acts as a journalist. He directly investigates. He is a synthesist. His abilities are not just acting as an alternative archeoastrosoicolphilosoher. He is also able to use his imagination and is open to changing his mind if challenged by new information. I think we all could do the same.

We want to know our history and "who we are, what we are and how we serve" (Paul Selig). I feel a trill of excitement when I believe I will discover more and IMO being a seeker is wonderful. Third hand testimonies lack depth to me and it is frustrating to weed through all the belief systems being promulgated. We are looking for the direct lines.

Often we end up grasping at different straws. The purpose of grasping goes beyond everything we do...it is IMO foremost to regain self worthy feeling and confidence. IMO it is to restore what seems missing.

We graduate to the personal University of duality (James Tyberon). Our advanced graduate student Piece is IMO why we are even alive. We are kind of afraid about that which we fear is in us so we don't go there.

People who are really delivering profound history are often just helping us with the clues they pick up so we will remember ourselves. When where they found "Information Tech" is available to see, we need to see it. Show me the giants....

If ANYONE an bring useful information to us, they can also say where it REALLY arose. They are inviting us along on a knowledge gathering of provenance threading or wasting our time and energy.

Genuine experience or syntheisis of existing information, IS at whatever level THAT is, truth we all have in us. I know we can discern when there is truth being drawn out.
It is intuition.

These tale tellers and the "Illuminati" vault of secrets is IMO the curtain.
I am sure the left hand that gives the encourage meant to serve us well can have a right hand snatching it back in the flutterings of history.

NOW, Sci fi fantasy that just tell the same war stories and The eternal battle and he anticipated doom is just boring. The ongoing projection of unresolved guilt is retarded.

Behind the curtain is the process where we are in consciousness. IF we believe FIRST what is hearsay and what another identified as authority says even before believing one's own experience IMO, we keep a golf ball sized consciousness.


If you have a golf-ball-sized consciousness, when you read a book, you'll have a golf-ball-sized understanding; when you look out a window, a golf-ball-sized awareness, when you wake up in the morning, a golf-ball-sized wakefulness; and as you go about your day, a golf-ball-sized inner happiness.

But if you can expand that consciousness, make it grow, then when you read about that book, you'll have more understanding; when you look out, more awareness; when you wake up, more wakefulness; as you go about your day, more inner happiness.

David Lynch

Let's do it! Our paranoia is the legacy from being a traumatized species with amnesia but we can get better. We know the worst happens but we can't recall our experience, so forget about it. We do some confabulating to make up for the loss of connection anyway. We may Feel compassion for our fear of our experience and we can relax. We may Feel compassion for making up stories that feel like what fear is for us and realize they are not what they seem.

Then we see the fear and stop applauding the war by telling and retelling. We may have to talk out or write about and sing songs of of our own experiences terror but we start to have some distance. I think our hearts will gain much courage and the peace and relaxation to heal PTSD when we shift to realizing the ongoing dilemma.

[ThePythonicCow]

Just watched a great interview with Stewart Swerdlow on Mind Control, and much more that also offers ways for all to wake up and take personal responsibility to co-create our world. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did.
Perhaps I'm just some bovine dinosaur, stuck in some mundane 3D dimension ... but I have great doubts about some of the less verifiable information that Stewart Swerdlow tells us in this video.

[araucaria]

Thank you, Delight, for quoting Barbara Hand Clow’s “Catastrophobia”; I have done so myself elsewhere. Drama is important. It is the thing that hurts us yet we are drawn to it like moths to a light. But drama is not on the same level as catastrophe: its theatricality is cathartic. When things happen on the uncontrolled level of “reality”, catastrophe is simply traumatic: there is no distancing mechanism to protect us. To return to my moving train: if you are standing on the track, you face the horror of catastrophe. But if you are on the train (maybe a ghost train), you see obstacles approaching threateningly, safe in the knowledge that the seemingly inevitable collision is not going to happen. You get the adrenaline rush, but it is not for real. You are on track, on a preset course only brushing with danger. While the danger is not real, it is realistic. What we need is a corresponding word to go with “truth”. Such pretend truth would be truthistic, truthism. When we talk of Shane’s fiction and Corey’s lies, they relate not to some catastrophic truth, but to dramatic truthism. The “real” ultimate “truth” is boring: God got bored and became the Creator to find excitement. Some of us are getting bored with this particular brand of excitement…

Pedestals: some are born on pedestals, some achieve pedestals, and some have pedestals thrust upon them, as Shakespeare nearly wrote. :) I am of course referring to our whistleblower friends. “Important” is a word that Bill uses a lot. I know what he is doing and understand why he does it: with reference to things and ideas more than individuals. Nonetheless for me, “Important” is a word that makes me cringe every time just seeing the configuration of letters on the page. If I could sum up what I’m trying to say, it might be “the importance of unimportance” or, since Oscar Wilde is not far away, “the importance of being not so earnest”.

Let me explore this another way. Importance is fundamentally elitist. Your importance detracts from mine, defines my unimportance. Hence it is anti-synergistic and hugely inefficient. On the other hand, if no one is important, then everyone is important. Here’s something I posted last year:

Spinning can be fun and useful, and maybe makes the world go round, but there is definitely a preferred way, which is identified by the freedom to exercise free will. Take a banana slide: the preferred way is up the steps and down the slide. Quite a few kids can have fun on it together, but it only takes one to go the other way and he spoils it for everyone. There is no rule against it, but unless no one else is around it is an infringement on others’ free will. Our thinking process is another banana slide. The enjoyment is being totally destroyed by a handful of wrong thinkers chasing everyone else the wrong way. This will continue for as long as we focus on the “elite” at the “top”, which is what we are still doing here, instead of allowing the dregs to sink to the bottom. Elitism is an endless race to keep ahead, and whistle-blowing is just a step or two behind. Fifty years ago, only the rich and famous regularly flew around the world in planes, holidayed in Ibiza, ate foie gras, whatever. Nowadays these are all things for the masses, or at least what is left of the middle classes. Last month I visited a château with 18th-century coffee cups and Japanese crockery set out on the table. Back then, exotic technologies like coffee-making and Japanese art were status symbols that in hindsight make us smile – and also wonder what all the fuss was about: such things are quite nice, but nothing world-shattering. Yet world-shattering is exactly where we think we are heading. We are only just starting to avoid the pitfall of envying the haves and of continuing to see ourselves as have-nots and would-be haves, a subtle form of victimization. What they have and we don’t is totally unimportant, nothing at all.

But here’s the deal: what applies to coffee beans still applies, in spades, to secret space fleets, trillions of dollars, the elixir of life and all the other stuff in the hands of the elite. Our entire thinking process has been contaminated by this anxiousness to gather the crumbs from the rich man’s table. That is not going to change until we get off the floor and overturn the table. Here is some more counterintuitive explaining from G. K. Chesterton in What's Wrong With The World, to the effect that equating the aristocracy with tradition is more totally upside-down thinking. And by implication, to do so on the multi-millennial scale that conspiracy theory deals with is merely upside-down thinking on the grandest scale. (All the emphasis below is mine.)

Oppression by optimism
But we are not here concerned with the nature and existence of the aristocracy, but
with the origin of its peculiar power, why is it the last of the true oligarchies of
Europe; and why does there seem no very immediate prospect of our seeing the end of
it? The explanation is simple though it remains strangely unnoticed. The friends of
aristocracy often praise it for preserving ancient and gracious traditions. The enemies
of aristocracy often blame it for clinging to cruel or antiquated customs. Both its
enemies and its friends are wrong. Generally speaking the aristocracy does not
preserve either good or bad traditions; it does not preserve anything except game.
Who would dream of looking among aristocrats anywhere for an old custom? One
might as well look for an old costume! The god of the aristocrats is not tradition, but
fashion, which is the opposite of tradition. If you wanted to find an old-world
Norwegian head-dress, would you look for it in the Scandinavian Smart Set? No; the
aristocrats never have customs; at the best they have habits, like the animals. Only the
mob has customs.
The real power of the English aristocrats has lain in exactly the opposite of tradition.
The simple key to the power of our upper classes is this: that they have always kept
carefully on the side of what is called Progress. They have always been up to date,
and this comes quite easy to an aristocracy. For the aristocracy are the supreme
instances of that frame of mind of which we spoke just now. Novelty is to them a
luxury verging on a necessity. They, above all, are so bored with the past and with the
present, that they gape, with a horrible hunger, for the future.
But whatever else the great lords forgot they never forgot that it was their business to
stand for the new things, for whatever was being most talked about among university
dons or fussy financiers. Thus they were on the side of the Reformation against the
Church, of the Whigs against the Stuarts, of the Baconian science against the old
philosophy, of the manufacturing system against the operatives, and (to-day) of the
increased power of the State against the old-fashioned individualists. In short, the rich
are always modern; it is their business. But the immediate effect of this fact upon the
question we are studying is somewhat singular.
In each of the separate holes or quandaries in which the ordinary Englishman has been
placed, he has been told that his situation is, for some particular reason, all for the
best. He woke up one fine morning and discovered that the public things, which for
eight hundred years he had used at once as inns and sanctuaries, had all been suddenly
and savagely abolished, to increase the private wealth of about six or seven men. One
would think he might have been annoyed at that; in many places he was, and was put
down by the soldiery. But it was not merely the army that kelp him quiet. He was kept
quiet by the sages as well as the soldiers; the six or seven men who took away the inns
of the poor told him that they were not doing it for themselves, but for the religion of
the future, the great dawn of Protestantism and truth. So whenever a seventeenth
century noble was caught pulling down a peasant's fence and stealing his field, the
noble pointed excitedly at the face of Charles I or James II (which at that moment,
perhaps, wore a cross expression) and thus diverted the simple peasant's attention.
The great Puritan lords created the Commonwealth, and destroyed the common land.
They saved their poorer countrymen from the disgrace of paying Ship Money, by
taking from them the plow money and spade money which they were doubtless too
weak to guard. A fine old English rhyme has immortalized this easy aristocratic habit
- You prosecute the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common, But
leave the larger felon loose Who steals the common from the goose.
But here, as in the case of the monasteries, we confront the strange problem of
submission. If they stole the common from the goose, one can only say that he was a
great goose to stand it. The truth is that they reasoned with the goose; they explained
to him that all this was needed to get the Stuart fox over seas. So in the nineteenth
century the great nobles who became mine-owners and railway directors earnestly
assured everybody that they did not do this from preference, but owing to a newly
discovered Economic Law. So the prosperous politicians of our own generation
introduce bills to prevent poor mothers from going about with their own babies; or
they calmly forbid their tenants to drink beer in public inns. But this insolence is not
(as you would suppose) howled at by everybody as outrageous feudalism. It is gently
rebuked as Socialism. For an aristocracy is always progressive; it is a form of going
the pace. Their parties grow later and later at night; for they are trying to live tomorrow.
I myself have been slightly contaminated by this reverse thinking. I have been saying that the solution to our problems has to be novel, in the sense of untried – because everything that has been tried so far has signally failed. But Chesterton reminds us that the untried is nothing new: it is hidden in plain sight, in our past. We have already had plenty of great ideas that might work, if only we implemented them fully, instead of shying away as soon as the going gets tough.


The unfinished temple

The task of modern idealists indeed is made much too easy for them by the fact that
they are always taught that if a thing has been defeated it has been disproved.
Logically, the case is quite clearly the other way. The lost causes are exactly those
which might have saved the world. If a man says that the Young Pretender would
have made England happy, it is hard to answer him. If anyone says that the Georges
made England happy, I hope we all know what to answer. That which was prevented
is always impregnable; and the only perfect King of England was he who was
smothered. Exactly because Jacobitism failed we cannot call it a failure. Precisely
because the Commune collapsed as a rebellion we cannot say that it collapsed as a
system. But such outbursts were brief or incidental. Few people realize how many of
the largest efforts, the facts that will fill history, were frustrated in their full design
and come down to us as gigantic cripples. I have only space to allude to the two
largest facts of modern history: the Catholic Church and that modern growth rooted in
the French Revolution.
When four knights scattered the blood and brains of St. Thomas of Canterbury, it was
not only a sign of anger but of a sort of black admiration. They wished for his blood,
but they wished even more for his brains. Such a blow will remain forever
unintelligible unless we realise what the brains of St. Thomas were thinking about just
before they were distributed over the floor. They were thinking about the great
mediaeval conception that the church is the judge of the world. Becket objected to a
priest being tried even by the Lord Chief Justice. And his reason was simple: because
the Lord Chief Justice was being tried by the priest. The judiciary was itself subjudice.
The kings were themselves in the dock. The idea was to create an invisible
kingdom, without armies or prisons, but with complete freedom to condemn publicly
all the kingdoms of the earth. Whether such a supreme church would have cured
society we cannot affirm definitely; because the church never was a supreme church.
We only know that in England at any rate the princes conquered the saints. What the
world wanted we see before us; and some of us call it a failure. But we cannot call
what the church wanted a failure, simply because the church failed. Tracy struck a
little too soon. England had not yet made the great Protestant discovery that the king
can do no wrong. The king was whipped in the cathedral; a performance which I
recommend to those who regret the unpopularity of church-going. But the discovery
was made; and Henry VIII scattered Becket's bones as easily as Tracy had scattered
his brains.
Of course, I mean that Catholicism was not tried; plenty of Catholics were tried, and
found guilty. My point is that the world did not tire of the church's ideal, but of its
reality. Monasteries were impugned not for the chastity of monks, but for the
unchastity of monks. Christianity was unpopular not because of the humility, but of
the arrogance of Christians. Certainly, if the church failed it was largely through the
churchmen. But at the same time hostile elements had certainly begun to end it long
before it could have done its work. In the nature of things it needed a common scheme
of life and thought in Europe. Yet the mediaeval system began to be broken to pieces
intellectually, long before it showed the slightest hint of falling to pieces morally. The
huge early heresies, like the Albigenses, had not the faintest excuse in moral
superiority. And it is actually true that the Reformation began to tear Europe apart
before the Catholic Church had had time to pull it together. The Prussians, for
instance, were not converted to Christianity at all until quite close to the Reformation.
The poor creatures hardly had time to become Catholics before they were told to
become Protestants. This explains a great deal of their subsequent conduct. But I have
only taken this as the first and most evident case of the general truth: that the great
ideals of the past failed not by being outlived (which must mean over-lived), but by
not being lived enough. Mankind has not passed through the Middle Ages. Rather
mankind has retreated from the Middle Ages in reaction and rout. The Christian ideal
has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.
It is, of course, the same in the case of the French Revolution. A great part of our
present perplexity arises from the fact that the French Revolution has half succeeded
and half failed... This is not so much the hackneyed “Back to the future” as “Forward to the past”. Instead of the headlong rush of lemmings, and even its familiar positive slant of “fail forward (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/614412-failing-forward-how-to-make-the-most-of-your-mistakes)”, this is a kind of “succeed backward”: let’s try something we’ve only ever pretended to try before and actually do the difficult thing for once.

But this is not to deny the existence of novelty; on the contrary, humanity is the very embodiment of in-your-face novelty that we tend to overlook.

Popular science, like that of Mr. Blatchford, is in this matter as mild as old wives'
tales. Mr. Blatchford, with colossal simplicity, explained to millions of clerks and
workingmen that the mother is like a bottle of blue beads and the father is like a bottle
of yellow beads; and so the child is like a bottle of mixed blue beads and yellow. He
might just as well have said that if the father has two legs and the mother has two
legs, the child will have four legs. Obviously it is not a question of simple addition or
simple division of a number of hard detached “qualities,” like beads. It is an organic
crisis and transformation of the most mysterious sort; so that even if the result is
unavoidable, it will still be unexpected. It is not like blue beads mixed with yellow
beads; it is like blue mixed with yellow; the result of which is green, a totally novel
and unique experience, a new emotion. A man might live in a complete cosmos of
blue and yellow, like the “Edinburgh Review”; a man might never have seen anything
but a golden cornfield and a sapphire sky; and still he might never have had so wild a
fancy as green. If you paid a sovereign for a bluebell; if you spilled the mustard on the
blue-books; if you married a canary to a blue baboon; there is nothing in any of these
wild weddings that contains even a hint of green. Green is not a mental combination,
like addition; it is a physical result like birth. So, apart from the fact that nobody ever
really understands parents or children either, yet even if we could understand the
parents, we could not make any conjecture about the children. Each time the force
works in a different way; each time the constituent colours combine into a different
spectacle. A girl may actually inherit her ugliness from her mother's good looks. A
boy may actually get his weakness from his father's strength. Even if we admit it is
really a fate, for us it must remain a fairy tale. Considered in regard to its causes, the
Calvinists and materialists may be right or wrong; we leave them their dreary debate.
But considered in regard to its results there is no doubt about it. The thing is always a
new colour; a strange star. Every birth is as lonely as a miracle. Every child is as
uninvited as a monstrosity.
On all such subjects there is no science, but only a sort of ardent ignorance; and
nobody has ever been able to offer any theories of moral heredity which justified
themselves in the only scientific sense; that is that one could calculate on them
beforehand. There are six cases, say, of a grandson having the same twitch of mouth
or vice of character as his grandfather; or perhaps there are sixteen cases, or perhaps
sixty. But there are not two cases, there is not one case, there are no cases at all, of
anybody betting half a crown that the grandfather will have a grandson with the twitch
or the vice. In short, we deal with heredity as we deal with omens, affinities and the
fulfillment of dreams. The things do happen, and when they happen we record them;
but not even a lunatic ever reckons on them. Indeed, heredity, like dreams and omens,
is a barbaric notion; that is, not necessarily an untrue, but a dim, groping and
unsystematized notion. A civilized man feels himself a little more free from his
family. Before Christianity these tales of tribal doom occupied the savage north; and
since the Reformation and the revolt against Christianity (which is the religion of a
civilized freedom) savagery is slowly creeping back in the form of realistic novels and
problem plays. The curse of Rougon-Macquart is as heathen and superstitious as the
curse of Ravenswood; only not so well written. But in this twilight barbaric sense the
feeling of a racial fate is not irrational, and may be allowed like a hundred other half
emotions that make life whole. The only essential of tragedy is that one should take it
lightly. Where did an alternative thinker like Chesterton (d. 1936) go in the early 20th century? Naturally he did the counterintuitive thing: as hinted at above, he joined the Catholic Church! Interestingly, he brings in the notion of drama, not in contrast to catastrophe, but as a work in progress, as opposed to the foregone conclusion, or the above-mentioned “lost cause”. Here’s his explanation:

The difference between Puritanism and Catholicism is not about whether some
priestly word or gesture is significant and sacred. It is about whether any word or
gesture is significant and sacred. To the Catholic every other daily act is dramatic
dedication to the service of good or of evil. To the Calvinist no act can have that sort
of solemnity, because the person doing it has been dedicated from eternity, and is
merely filling up his time until the crack of doom. The difference is something subtler
than plum-puddings or private theatricals; the difference is that to a Christian of my
kind this short earthly life is intensely thrilling and precious; to a Calvinist like Mr.
Shaw it is confessedly automatic and uninteresting. To me these threescore years and
ten are the battle. To the Fabian Calvinist (by his own confession) they are only a long
procession of the victors in laurels and the vanquished in chains. To me earthly life is
the drama; to him it is the epilogue. Shavians think about the embryo; Spiritualists
about the ghost; Christians about the man. It is as well to have these things clear.
Now all our sociology and eugenics and the rest of it are not so much materialist as
confusedly Calvinist, they are chiefly occupied in educating the child before he exists.
The whole movement is full of a singular depression about what one can do with the
populace, combined with a strange disembodied gayety about what may be done with
posterity. These essential Calvinists have, indeed, abolished some of the more liberal
and universal parts of Calvinism, such as the belief in an intellectual design or an
everlasting happiness. But though Mr. Shaw and his friends admit it is a superstition
that a man is judged after death, they stick to their central doctrine, that he is judged
before he is born.

[gripreaper]

deleted by author

[ulli]

deleted by author

This post says a lot, even though "deleted by author"
"The next voice you hear will be your own"

[ulli]

And araucaria's post just above it says so much that time won't allow me to express all the ideas it generated in my head.
So I will pull out the part from it which I considered most important:


"Let me explore this another way. Importance is fundamentally elitist. Your importance detracts from mine, defines my unimportance. Hence it is anti-synergistic and hugely inefficient. On the other hand, if no one is important, then everyone is important."


While I agree about the elitist aspect of 'importance' in the context of people's status in society, yet in the context of choosing the most important thing to do, when it comes to making choices, the individual cannot get away from discarding certain options while proceeding with the most important option.
The alternative would be slack living...which is ok only when balanced by intensity.
It is in our intensity that we are truly alive and fulfilling our purpose of being here.

And to stay on topic with what is being discussed in this thread....
Weighing the presentation of one person's experience, as in Shane's case, against one's own, especially the part of other-dimensional experiences, and the use of occult laws in this life, is one of the most important endeavors for most of us here.

[Clear Light]

What we need is a corresponding word to go with “truth”. Such pretend truth would be truthistic, truthism. When we talk of Shane’s fiction and Corey’s lies, they relate not to some catastrophic truth, but to dramatic truthism. The “real” ultimate “truth” is boring: God got bored and became the Creator to find excitement. Some of us are getting bored with this particular brand of excitement…

[...]

Where did an alternative thinker like Chesterton (d. 1936) go in the early 20th century? Naturally he did the counterintuitive thing: as hinted at above, he joined the Catholic Church! Interestingly, he brings in the notion of drama, not in contrast to catastrophe, but as a work in progress, as opposed to the foregone conclusion, or the above-mentioned “lost cause”. Here’s his explanation:


[...]

The whole [church] movement is full of a singular depression about what one can do with the populace, combined with a strange disembodied gayety about what may be done with posterity



Ah, now : "what to *do* with the Populace" ? Such an interesting question with regards to the idea of "waking people up" especially in the Alternative Community eh ?

One perceptive man I know would laugh and say "Empty Concept" ... Because for *some* Spiritual and Occult minded people thinking about such things only keeps our Conceptual Mind spinning its wheels whilst distracting us from the real-task-at-hand which is to discover WHO we actually are !

And that can only be done I suggest from Awareness not from the Mind ... In other words by first coming to understand the Nature of our own Mind we will ALL discover the Insight we seem to be in short supply of nowadays !

Frithjof Schuon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frithjof_Schuon) : "That which is lacking in the present world is a profound knowledge of the nature of things"

Oh, sorry if I've gone somewhat :offtopic: ... hope it wasn't too "Distracting" :idea: !!!

N.B. I only included the quote from Frithjof Schuon because of its relevance, I feel, to what I'm saying, not because I have any sort of an allegiance to him

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Stop and think about others that have attempted to bring forth information at this level.

Have they gone through this level of scrutiny?

Seriously ... stop and think about it.

Yes. Earlier this year, and late winter of last year, Corey Goode went through the same kind of scrutiny on these forums. Since he was scrutinized, I guess you believe(d) him too?

I don't understand the logic that being subjected to criticism makes someone automatically credible, if this is what you are trying to say now. Calz I honestly think you have fallen for something that you simply prefer to keep believing regardless of any outside red flags.


If someone has gone through this level of experience and tried to go public with it ... is this not the best we as a community could hope for???

If someone had really gone through these kinds of experiences there would be indications of that, somehow, on some level. What kind of indications do you think Shane has provided to show that he's telepathically talked to giants, witnessed ritual torture and murder, trained Vladimiar Putin when he was only 13 or 14 years old, and all this other stuff? It's just because he's nice, right? That's why you believe him? He's your friend and he's nice.

That may well be the case but it doesn't mean he's not lying anyway. I once had a friend who was a pathological liar and everyone knew it, and he would lie about the craziest stuff that made no sense to lie about, but he was nice enough anyway. Doesn't mean we believed any of his fantastic stories of course.


Who can we trust about this level of information all things considered???

No one except your own self. Maybe that's the problem, you feel like you have to be able to trust someone and follow their story to get to the truth. The only person you are going to be able to trust in the end is yourself and in cases like this you better question whether you should even trust that, because you have to be able to question everything, and not just what is comfortable for you to question.

Burden of proof is on the person making claims. There is nothing to "move on" to except going back to having blind faith in what this guy says, and why in the hell should anyone ever have blind faith in anything? Very best case scenario you could have here without evidence is to simply entertain the stories without attaching yourself to it being true or false either way.

[transiten]

Again my suggestion to ask a horary about Shanes credibility; this astrologer from Michigan is incredibly accurate. F.i. a friend of mine who had got to know a man she felt had become her close friend and trusted 100% showed up disappearing and not payng back - to her a large sum of money including a mobile and her favourite blanket. He was full of "spirituality" e-mailing Universal Love all over the place.

For several reasons she got this strong intuition being away for a while that he had stolen everything of value from her room (he had the key) and asked a horary about whether this man was a thief or not. She felt absolute terrible suspecting this man and accused herself for that.

As she arrived home everything seemed Ok and a parcel that had disappeared had been returned, something she also asked about and that the astrologer said would be found.

But the chart screamed theft and her being gullible trusting the wrong pple. And so it appeared he had taken those money all the same (she didn't tell about that loan and mobile while asking the question) She eventually felt much better having her intuition confirmed.

Hope I don't get a :focus:

[OmeyocaN777]

As we all know everything around us is energy that vibrates in different frequencies so we are.
What i'm thinking.....i am, as Jesus and Buddha said.
We are creators, so in order to create something beautiful and harmonious, we must first explore and understand how negative and positive thoughts-energies work and correspond each other (this is something that we knew it before but we forgot it - we still learn how to expand it).
Shane said that Cassandra call him Mr Green, she saids also that exist three kinds of people, red-blue and green.
These are code names to describe basic humans ways of thinking-vibrations, where red are the humans that work in basics instincts (survive), blue are the humans that vibrates in mind-control-scientific way and green is the heart frequency of unity.
Shane told us also that every trick or manipulation tried on him was a failure.
Here we have a great secret expose and this is a great example how we can benefit even from "dark sources".
When we vibrate in a higher frequency (heart) connecting with mother earth (earth-sun-galaxy-universe), this feeling comes from inside,
there is nothing that can manipulate-fear-control us and we feel complete because we take energy from the fountain(GOD).
Our intuition and telepathy are in a high state so everywhere we focus on, immediately we know the true way of the current situation.
When we vibrate in heart frequency that doesn't mean that the other centres-chakras are inactive but rather following (full term-coexisting).....
This is our purpose here(bring the Light) thats why they trying so hard to disconnect us from mother earth and between us.
This state of vibrating in this higher frequency, Jesus Call it with the code name "Holy Spirit"!!!??
We are Beautiful Magical Creatures-Beings because we are the extension of God, never forget that!!!
Only Love real exists, everything else is an illusion.......

[3(C)+me]

Araucara wrote:

I myself have been slightly contaminated by this reverse thinking. I have been saying that the solution to our problems has to be novel, in the sense of untried – because everything that has been tried so far has signally failed.

Great men have offered novel revolutionary ideas, (these ideas often involved overthrowing the Old system) but they were gotten rid of, suicided, overdosed, framed, assassinated, so as to stop these ideas from moving forward. We know what novel ideas might work but we have the old system which your author tries to paint as progressive that will do what it takes to stop them.

But Chesterton reminds us that the untried is nothing new: it is hidden in plain sight, in our past.

The past is the old customs, laws, and programing that states "custom and rule by the rightful rulers" must stand and continue. This is not the untried.
This is the same old same old.

We have already had plenty of great ideas that might work, if only we implemented them fully, instead of shying away as soon as the going gets tough.

Martin Luther, JFK, RFK, John Lennon...this is what happens to individuals who suggest a new way. To be in a position of influencing the masses to another way can get you killed, tough, tough indeed.


The house that is too big to fall is going to be falling, probably longer then we would like but if you look closely you can see the paint peeling, and the floor sagging, the roof with holes in it, the next good rain, the raccoons will be their only inhabitants.
Stand on the other side of the street, a few houses away so when it does go down, you will not be harmed.
Then these new ideas that have not be able to move forward can be put into place, because we know what will work because we would not be here it we were clueless.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Hi, All:

A quick on-record note to step in to clarify something that may be being used by some others to plant a misconception. Then we can get back to topic.

As I mentioned in my post #1 here on this thread, I'd first reported my concerns to the mods on 28 September. It seems I need to document that. Here's the screenshot:

http://projectavalon.net/28_September.gif

This was three days before the 1 October publication of the 'Unplugged' interview. I'd not even known that was happening.

I was first asked to take a close look at the situation by a researcher friend, a week or two before that. They'd been in touch with Shane since much earlier in the year, and had become certain there were serious problems. They flagged it themselves, I respected them enough to listen, and so I started the private discussion.

:focus:

[Morbid]

when listening to so called whistleblowers i frankly dont care much if its true or not. its simply pointless as the energy spent proving that is just not worth it. maybe its better if we just took them at face value and choose whether we wish to accept their reality or not.

Ok, I know we have our own views, but the above way of thinking(?) just drive me nuts. If you don't care if a whistleblower tells the truth or not, then you are in dangerous grounds just entertaining their views. Whistleblowers of the type we pay attention to here are speaking about life and death things, very important ideas that affect our world view and our health. If you don't care if it's true or not, call it what it is, ENTERTAINMENT for you. Some people get a high off of reading these narratives.

There is this idea I always read in neo-spirituality about 'We create our own reality' -- something I think is just wrong or misunderstood.

At what point does someone's reality become a delusion? Besides the physical world, most people are only dealing with the 4th/astral dimension. Some are able to reach higher, and it's these people who usually pay very little attention to whistleblowers and myth makers because they never prove themselves or their stories. These are Real Mystics.

Anyways, if I listen to a guy who creates a fantasy world about himself and the world, like I personally think Shane has done, and then this person shares his story with anyone at all, I'd think he's a run-of-the-mill narcissist, attention seeker. No matter how uplifting his personal Spirituality seems, as soon as this person starts changing classic mythology based on nothing but a blog narrative, putting himself as the son of Anu (hey, Simon Parkes is the son of Anu too!) and the personal occult trainer of Putin? among other things, I'm thinking this guy is just doing some creative writing. WHICH IS WHAT IT IS as it says on the blog. Shane only intimates that it's true by not telling those people who believe it (including Bill Ryan at one point) that it isn't true. He could come out and say it's all REALLY just fiction, or clarify which parts are true and false, or introduce us to a REAL illuminati defector, his supposed intended audience, not a Cassandra who was literally a joke, imo. If it's part fiction and part reality, which parts are which? Is it disinformation? Is it coded fiction? How bout, who gives a F anymore since he will not clear it up right here after days of people scratching their heads.

Here's a prediction. He will not come out and say he made it all up, but he will retain his online friends, while continuing to laugh about how many people were ranting against Cassandra, a made up fictional character. I bet he laughed a lot while reading those responses, which the intended audience would have gotten some giggle out of too, should any of them have actually read his blog.


Karpos. i wouldnt advise you to allow yourself be driven nuts. instead ask yourself whether its my words that drive you there or something else within? you might separate yourself from those that you might consider passive followers not caring where is true and where is false..
believe it or not - when one stops seeking truth from outside, the feeling from within comes knocking. perhaps truth is not to be told, but to be felt?
disregarding the fact of the story being truth or fantasy, its the moral that can be gained from it that is important.
whatever you question - just try meditating on it...
good luck.

[onawah]

What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?
We could start with what seems to be as well documented as anything that's come along so far; for example, that there are bases on Mars where earth humans are now living.
That sort of thing--which credible whistleblowers like Henry Deacon, Bob Dean, Clifford Stone have attested to.

Perhaps Bill and the Mods could start by creating a new subforum where we can list the things that we pretty well know to be true with links that would substantiate the evidence, and members could add to it if they have something to offer that will hold up under scrutiny. It would be great if Bill and the Mods who have the most access to behind the scenes info would contribute.
That might help us to build a more solid base and weed out the deadwood that keeps cropping up again and again, instead of so much tilting at windmills.
(Perhaps it would also be good to list the info that has pretty well been proven to be untrue, once and for all, as well.)

And it seems like there is a big imbalance of focus on negative, fearful info as opposed to positive, inspiring and supportive info.
I would like to see more of the latter, if it is credible, such as the info about underground bases that were destroyed, which at first seemed implausible, but later was shown to be credible to some extent, at least (and that cheered me up no end!)
It seems obvious a big part of the psy-ops programs is designed to keep us in fear, and all kinds of scary stuff can be invented for that purpose.
On the other hand, of course, most of the positive stuff can be invented to keep us complacent and inactive, though when it's substantiated, it can also help to keep us motivated and feeling courageous and encouraged.
I think we tend to want to sideline the positive info because we are afraid it's going to be disproven, and then we are disappointed and feel foolish for ever entertaining it, whereas we feel like we are being more realistic and practical if we focus on the negative stuff, but that can lead to a generally negative, discouraging mindset, and end up with us feeling drained and used when it's proven untrue.
And it may be that just as much of that is as untrue as the unrealistic, rose-colored-glasses kind of positive info.

I've pretty much given up on reading positive channeled information because so much of that has been corrupted now, apparently, but it looks like just as much of the whistleblower info is corrupted these days as well.

Maybe that is just an inevitable characteristic of polarity ridden 3D living, but it seems like a rut we need to break out of if we are going to evolve into something better.

[Bill Ryan]

.
I just wrote this to Shane. After a moment's thought, I realized I could also post it here.






Dear Shane,

I do think you need to see this post. [I'm referring to #185, just above.] It was starting to become clear there was a need to clarify:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1009866 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1009866&viewfull=1#post1009866)

The screenshot is also attached, just so you can easily refer to it if you want. Do also forward that to anyone you know who may not be as reasonable as yourself.

Separately, Billy tells me you're open to the idea of a well-structured audio conference (we have the 'Zoom' software ready to roll) in which you could answer questions from, and talk with, Avalon members on record. Just like a conference in a room, with a mobile microphone, but audio only.

I've already told Billy that if you wished, I'd not be present at that. I'd be quite happy to be absent, if it made you feel more comfortable.

I'm just in a role (which I actually don't relish at all) of kind of being the 'bad cop' here. There are many others with serious concerns, and who had them way before I did, who for their own reasons have so far not said very much.

I didn't first bring The Ruiner's Blog to Avalon, and nor was I the first to raise a flag. I'm just being a mouthpiece here.

That's part of my job, as it were. I'd honestly far rather be talking about other things. By default, I'm a very trusting, open and positive person. But you already know that.

It's about the information, not about the personalities. I'd very much like to think you agree fully. If you'd like to take part in a conference, and use that to make any clarifying statements that you like, then just let Billy know. I'll do as I'm told here. :)

With all best wishes ~ Bill

[ThePythonicCow]

What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?
Almost everything I have ever been sure of is either

in some isolated microcosm, such as in the foundations of mathematics, or
something that, given enough time, I have realized was profoundly mistaken.

So I could not contribute much to such a subforum ... sorry :).

(My definition of "Self": that which seems forever constant about my existence, even as all that I can name or measure of it has changed.)

[Johnny]

What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?
Almost everything I have ever been sure of is either

in some isolated microcosm, such as in the foundations of mathematics, or
something that, given enough time, I have realized was profoundly mistaken.

So I could not contribute much to such a subforum ... sorry :).

(My definition of "Self": that which seems forever constant about my existence, even as all that I can name or measure of it has changed.)

So far as I know the foundation of mathematics is adopted !

Johnny :)

[Karpos]

Morbid wrote, "disregarding the fact of the story being truth or fantasy, its the moral that can be gained from it that is important."

Nope. If a story is fiction or historical fiction, or all true should be very clear at the outset. That's a very important (oops) foundation when considering the moral. With Shane's story and those who believe it, you'll get the people who begin repeating bits as if it's true, facts, like draco (evil aliens!) leaving earth. He let's them think it is true. In fact the point might be to make them look foolish.

A whistleblower or anyone with a story like Shane's needs to be very clear about whether their narrative is all true to the best of their knowledge, or a coded narrative of truth and half truth or even lies, which some purportedly mix lies to protect themselves. That last part is BS in my estimation and the definition of disinformation, something that some people seem to be addicted to.

Shane's was an exercise in creative writing, fiction, a nicely written narrative to be sure; it could be considered a purge even, but it got away from him when the "fans" showed up. This is my opinion again.

The TRUTH is objective, no matter how many times or different ways people want to tell themselves otherwise.


Thanks,
/meditating

[Daozen]

I listened to the unplugged interview a couple of nights ago and I liked it a lot. Tons of wisdom there.

[mosquito]

What about if we focus on what seems very likely to be true instead of spending so much time on what we can't be sure of?
Almost everything I have ever been sure of is either

in some isolated microcosm, such as in the foundations of mathematics, or
something that, given enough time, I have realized was profoundly mistaken.

So I could not contribute much to such a subforum ... sorry :).

(My definition of "Self": that which seems forever constant about my existence, even as all that I can name or measure of it has changed.)

Far, far too self-deprecating Paul. The mere fact you acknowledge that most of what you thought you knew turned out to be false speaks volumes about your intelligence and awareness. Yours is a very trusted judgment.

[mosquito]

Just some typically vague, rambling thoughts .....

Are people just a little too eager to hear from "whistleblowers" ?
Do they (the whistleblowers) ever really tell us anything of substance ? Something that can make a
difference in our daily lives ? Something that can help us create a better world ?
Are they not just glorified pseudo-celebrities, spinning yarns that aren't really that much more interesting than a sci-fi plot ?
Does it matter, really really matter if there is a group of 2000 year old beings who apparently reincarnate every x years, who
believe themsleves to be custodians of the planet and therefore believe thay are more important than than the rest of us ?
If they truly are our spiritual "parents", then wouldn't humanity be in a slightly better position than it is now ?
By giving credence to these stories - DO WE NOT AFFIRM OUR OWN INFERIORITY to these parasitic "elites" (who may or may not exist) ?

Personally, I don't give a fig for Anu, Cassandra or any of the other characters who've been brought to our attention; to me they are as real as Mr Spock.

Our species is on a collision course with extinction. I'm interested in turning the juggernaut round (if indeed that is the best option, maybe anihilation is the best, in which case I'm more than happy to go along with it). I AM NOT interested in someone else's soap opera, nor in playing control games with pseudo-spiritual beings of dubious provenance.

I ought actually to say something else at this point. We are all susceptible to sweet talk from others, we invariably hear exactly what we want to hear. (Been there got the bloody wardrobe, never mind the t-shirt !) The fact that intelligent, experienced people on this forum have been taken in on more than one occasion is no reason to doubt their wisdom or their judgment. By its' nature, the forum will attract those who either seek attention or who wish to create waves. The admin team here have shown honesty and transparancy in bringing the situation to our attention, we should be thankful. Compare the situation with your politician of choice, who is most unlikely to ever say "I was wrong".

[Pam]

I haven't seen this point addressed, so I will bring it up here. There have been multiple posts here that have brought up the fact that this story must be true because Shane is so nice.

I would like to share a personal observation about myself, that has taken many years to discover. In the "real" world, I have always had a reputation as being a really nice person. It is true that I am kind, and it is true also that I almost never create conflict, and walk away from any when it is near by. I never start conflict and will work to end it if it is near by. For most of my life I would have called this an asset, that I am a really nice person. But the reality is that being a really nice person is no different in many ways than being a jerk. It is a way to deal with the world. To be truthful, I have been able to manipulate outcomes in the workplace being a really nice person just as well as an overbearing, alpha personality can, and no one will even notice that it was I that changed the outcome. At other times, the ultra niceness is used so that no one will question my motives. You have no idea how easy it is to be ulta nice and no one will believe you are the thief , even if you have your hand in the cookie jar. In other words, most people can not imagine a really nice person doing wrong, even if they witness it. Most people equate ultra niceness with ultra goodness and quite frankly, that is not the case. I could go on and on.

What I am trying to say, is that being really, really nice does not necessitate a saintly disposition. Just like all personality types, it is a coping mechanism and an egoic strategy. It is also, an excellent tool for manipulation. Most people will never question someone who is impeccably nice. I also must add that not many people can pull off the ultra nice persona, because it takes a strong aversion to conflict to be able to be "nice" all of the time.

I am not trying to say that I and all nice people are sociopaths. I am simply stating that we too can be guilty of all the flaws of humanity that every other personality type can be. I am also not saying that nice people are not truly nice, because I suspect most are. But as long as we are ruled by an unbridled ego, really our personalities are nothing more than coping strategies.

[DePortugal]

Perhaps I'm just some bovine dinosaur,...

Well Paul if you really think you are a bovine dinosaur you will become one if you believe you are.
I cannot say much on the bovine side of your mind because I ignore the evolution of that race but I can help you on the dinosaur side.
Contrary to what you probably believe the dinosaurs are the parents of the reptiles that continued their natural evolutionary process and produced thousands of different races.
Most reptilian races got stuck in the 4th D. in our world and in many others forming several Reptilian Empires.
Many Reptilians think of themselves as being at the very top of the evolutionary scale, exactly as some humans think of themselves.
Very few races of Reptilians were lucky and discovered that the Humans had a DNA that allowed an easy evolution past their 4th D.
So with the voluntary help and Love of some Humans they continued the natural evolution and achieved the 7th and even the 9th D.
I was/will be, profoundly involved in that evolutionary process.
So a bovine dinosaur mind with your human DNA can also become a very interesting evolutionary process.
You do know that everything is possible?
Do you know if there are any limitations on Reality?
None, other than the belief that you embrace!
If you expand your limiting thoughts, shifting your Dogmas, your Programme, then your Reality will expand accordingly.
And so there cannot exist a fixed Truth, a Universal Truth.
It all depends on the level you place yourself.
If you believe in Gravity you probably better not jump from the 2nd floor.
I will give you two examples that Truth or Reality can be changed by your Belief.
If someone believes 100% that he can overcome Gravity he can walk on water or he can levitate himself. Go to Tibet if you have any disbelief.
So we cannot judge the Truth of others, or call them liars.
You can only say that you believe or you don’t believe in what they say.
Truth and Reality is relative, it is not absolute.
If you believe in Free Will you can believe in whatever you want and create gradually the Reality you want to live in and perhaps teach others to do the same, and so we all become FREE gradually…
The greater opportunity for Avalon members is exactly that, to expand their Reality changing fixed Dogmas (religious or scientific) into a vast and different level of understanding.
The only enemy out there, the one you should avoid is Fear, promoted by ignorance or lack of knowledge.
Now to you and Bill:
What is disinformation? Is it untruth mixed with truth? No!
It is someone trying to make you believe in a negative reality, one that will produce Fear.
Or someone trying that you jump into a parallel Reality where Fear will be the outcome.
There is also a very clever disinformation to make you believe on a reality so good that eventually you will not be able to believe in it any more, leaving you alone with Fear.
But if you decide that you want to live a Reality where there is Love and no Fear, there is nothing that they can do to make you jump into a dark Reality.
The Free Will is the first and most important principle in this Universe.
You all must believe only the Reality that feels well, where you are comfortable and gradually expand your Reality always feeling comfortable.
The moment you start to feel Fear you must stop and believe the reverse, Love, as being your truth, the Reality that you want to live in this life.

[OmeyocaN777]

Sometimes you just have to die a little inside (old program-belief) in order to be reborn and rise again as a stronger and wiser version of you......

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2e/8b/9f/2e8b9f1e506402767c3d9f4d716282d7.gif

[Pam]

Sometimes you just have to die a little inside (old program-belief) in order to be reborn and rise again as a stronger and wiser version of you......

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2e/8b/9f/2e8b9f1e506402767c3d9f4d716282d7.gif



First of all, that is a friggin cool picture, I could look at it all day.

The other thing, is that many of us are breaking our old program belief systems, one that believes the words of others without using our own discernment and not relying on our intuitive wisdom to function as a guide as to what is true. So there are many ways to look at what you said and many ways to be reborn.

[Selene]

The other thing, is that many of us are breaking our old program belief systems, one that believes the words of others without using our own discernment and not relying on our intuitive wisdom to function as a guide as to what is true. So there are many ways to look at what you said and many ways to be reborn.

Absolutely, Peterpam.

I’ve had my ‘bedrock floor’ of beliefs drop out from under me so many times now that I simply shrug and laugh as I float free ….. again.

Every time I read something new and challenging, it is an opportunity for me to modify my ‘hard shell’ of belief/resistance against the greater universe of wider knowledge and wisdom.

I keep growing, in bits and pieces.

I don’t think or believe the same things today that I believed when I was four – or fourteen – or even forty. And that’s all good.

That’s how we grow and become better: by traveling more and more lightly. By becoming more reliant on our own inner compass, our own inner truth, our own radar. We become stronger by becoming more flexible.

It is yourself - not ‘them’ - who we must truly learn to trust on this journey.

Cheers,

Selene

[sarah22]

Hi All,
I wanted to state here, that I now think I was taken in by Shane. I don't think he is a bad guy either. But I was giving him a lot of credit for connections I had made about my own past and this feeling of profundity that I had ever since reading his blog. I read all the Ruiner's blog posts/comments in many late night binges about two weeks ago now.

It is my personal opinion that Shane is being influenced and that those of us who used to be in the programs, like me, are his target audience. Perhaps, as it has been suggested to me, programmed people are easier to influence because "they" know us so well. Perhaps they were trying to see what would make us tick. I don't know.

But here are the reasons that I think Shane is being used or influenced.

1.) After reading this thread on PA, I decided to take a step back and as objectively as I could, really look at why his blog was so profound for me and what I had actually gotten from it. 20 minutes later, I saw that I had not gotten anything from it. I had made some important connections to my past, but those connections came from hours of research, not from his blog. Reading his blog had prompted me to start that research, yes. But not unlike seeing a painting at a museum that gives you an idea. It's nice, but it has nothing to do with the painter, yet I gave Shane a lot of credit for it.
I also had a deep feeling of "profundity" while reading his blog but when I really looked at that feeling and where it came from, it wasn't his blog, it was the general feel-good or common sense statements that he often makes. Great ideas such as, no one is coming to save us, personal responsibility is important, the earth and humanity are beautiful things worth saving, etc. To me, his blog is a repackaging of a lot of material that has been in the alternative community for a while now.
I was giving this guy a heck of a lot of credit for beliefs I already had, as though he, Shane, was the source of those beliefs. It is not Shane's fault that I gave this credit to him, I did that. But it is very odd to me in retrospect, that I did.

2.) When I came to the above conclusions, in what only took me a surprisingly short 20 minutes, it was like I snapped out of a spell, literally. I know that sounds kind of nuts, but all at once, all this energy came back. Like I had just taken off a heavy backpack I forgot I was wearing. And around my head, it felt like I was shaking off a heavy fog. When this energy came back and this head-fog lifted, I felt like myself again. I lost a week and half to this guy and didn't even notice I was the frog in the soon to be boiling water. I got sort of lost in this blog. Is that his fault? Did he tell me to do this? No, of course not and I don't know the guy from Adam and I not trying to just blame Shane for my poor decision to waste my own time on his blog. But for me, this energy stuff that happened around this, wasn't normal.

Perhaps "they" are trying out some remote influencing, seeing what works, what doesn't, what the triggers are for people like me, to accept this type of thing. I am usually pretty vigilant about my beliefs, but I have been going through a bit of a time, so that could have easily been the vulnerability that they exploited. Or maybe I had some weird, nonsexual crush on someone I initially found arrogant and juvenile but whom, after a week and a half, I believed without question? I am trying to be open to all possibilities here but you know, the latter just seems weird to me.

Hope this is helpful for someone. Thanks to everyone for this discussion :)

(End note: The reason I mention that I was in programs was to give what I felt was important context for my comments and experience. Not that anyone is even remotely interested but in the off chance someone is, I wanted to write here that I am not ready to talk about my time in the programs. I am asking the wonderful members of this forum to please not contact me about it. It is very personal, painful and not something I am ready to share as of yet. On a forum like this, there are probably more than enough stories from people like me that most people here couldn't care less. But in case a well-meaning member is curious and wants to chat, please do not contact me. Personally, I think Svali and Duncan O'Finioan have already spoken so well about the experience, they would be a better resource than me anyway. You can find their interiews with a quick Google search. Thanks all.)

[transiten]

Thanks a lot sarah22, made a lot of sense to me. Suppose I should know by now but what exactly means "having been in a program"? Almost sounds like brainwashing of which I have personal experience, hence my cautious approach to anything of which I don't have personal experience.

[Bill Ryan]

:star::star::star::star::star:



Wow, what a post. :star:

[3(C)+me]

Well, now we are getting somewhere.

[Delight]

The other thing, is that many of us are breaking our old program belief systems, one that believes the words of others without using our own discernment and not relying on our intuitive wisdom to function as a guide as to what is true. So there are many ways to look at what you said and many ways to be reborn.

Absolutely, Peterpam.

I’ve had my ‘bedrock floor’ of beliefs drop out from under me so many times now that I simply shrug and laugh as I float free ….. again.

Every time I read something new and challenging, it is an opportunity for me to modify my ‘hard shell’ of belief/resistance against the greater universe of wider knowledge and wisdom.

I keep growing, in bits and pieces.

I don’t think or believe the same things today that I believed when I was four – or fourteen – or even forty. And that’s all good.

That’s how we grow and become better: by traveling more and more lightly. By becoming more reliant on our own inner compass, our own inner truth, our own radar. We become stronger by becoming more flexible.

It is yourself - not ‘them’ - who we must truly learn to trust on this journey.

Cheers,

Selene

I am totally with you in your perception. Thank you
"inner compass, our own inner truth, our own radar. We become stronger by becoming more flexible."

YES!

[Delight]

Some people have referenced the positive sense they received form Shane and it was so well stated earlier that the truth is what we already have but we see in others (when looking for the truth). There is the idea of projection of shadow both black and GOLDEN onto a screen of others. Also there is looking within.

The resonance to the truth sayer is falling in love with them...glamorizing the Golden shadow onto others. Then one might hate them afterwards? They take on the black hue.

This is what happens all the time. Narcisissm manages the shadow of others. I say we all will move through the realm of shadow and light and we wanted this experience. We are (at a level of consciousness that IS US) the producers IMO.

I think trauma has damaged the connection of multi-dimensional awareness. It can cause people to dissociate and split. I also think tat trauma CAUSES narcissm. So a culture of trauma IS a narcissistic one. One cannot heal except by inner connection with SELF.

The fear of shadow Black keeps us small and cringing. Fear of owning the gold our daylight and ideals is the same impasse as fear of the black nightside.

I differ from others in that I think trauma that is garden variety and abuse that is considered normal child rearing is much more far reaching than we will admit. My personal thesis is that we exaggerate what is within us we have not owned YET and we project on people places and situations.

The tall tale is an attempt to justify how horrible hurt we feel. So, I am into the idea that is lawful eperience we have and we will begin to claim the shadow as part of awakening. To me owning one-self is the next stage to play on.

IMO the narcissist culture we have lived in asks that we be OWNED by others. Growing up with a malignant narcisisst is very garden variety. Glamoring and then falling in love with a boy/girl partner, cult leader Narcisisst or a cult leader story teller NARCISSIST all will be bound to disappoint us and make NO SENSE.
I have spent all my life trying to understand WTF about these people. And they hurt me very well. I am definitely not alone.

The positive message IMO is that we take back our own prsmission to own our own dark AND LIGHT. The most significant feeling is what we feel about our own being. IMO what i refuse to love is a negation and makes me project it. What I "I LOVE ABOUT MYSELF:" will not jump out at me. My shadow could be loved GENUINELY warts and la de da all

The sense is that we invite experience to master the art of life. That is why I cannot demonize or angelify what I see around me without having that demon and angel in my psyche. I also liked what Peterpam brought up about being nice. Nice is a facade always. If it is genuine, it isn't nice. My definition of nice is well behaved. We insist that we like nice and polite over spontaneously messy behavior.

Nice is what ladies in the south say with a"Bless her heart"and a smile. code for "I really dislike that woman".

.

[araucaria]

Araucara wrote:

I myself have been slightly contaminated by this reverse thinking. I have been saying that the solution to our problems has to be novel, in the sense of untried – because everything that has been tried so far has signally failed.

Great men have offered novel revolutionary ideas, (these ideas often involved overthrowing the Old system) but they were gotten rid of, suicided, overdosed, framed, assassinated, so as to stop these ideas from moving forward. We know what novel ideas might work but we have the old system which your author tries to paint as progressive that will do what it takes to stop them.

But Chesterton reminds us that the untried is nothing new: it is hidden in plain sight, in our past.

The past is the old customs, laws, and programing that states "custom and rule by the rightful rulers" must stand and continue. This is not the untried.
This is the same old same old.

We have already had plenty of great ideas that might work, if only we implemented them fully, instead of shying away as soon as the going gets tough.

Martin Luther, JFK, RFK, John Lennon...this is what happens to individuals who suggest a new way. To be in a position of influencing the masses to another way can get you killed, tough, tough indeed.


The house that is too big to fall is going to be falling, probably longer then we would like but if you look closely you can see the paint peeling, and the floor sagging, the roof with holes in it, the next good rain, the raccoons will be their only inhabitants.
Stand on the other side of the street, a few houses away so when it does go down, you will not be harmed.
Then these new ideas that have not be able to move forward can be put into place, because we know what will work because we would not be here it we were clueless.
It’s not quite that simple though, is it? Us not being clueless – whether you mean dumb or having clues – is not the point. We have disagreement even here on Avalon, where spirituality and science do not quite meet, often because we cannot agree on the spiritual course and we cannot agree on the science, and we certainly cannot get the two to dance together satisfactorily. For example, when I bring my understanding of Avalonian spiritual wisdom to a conspiracy thread, I usually get mugged (a slight exaggeration to make my point :)). There are people here who believe stringing up the Bushes would solve something: that is simply the Bush method applied to themselves. Others are clamouring for action of some other kind, and you are disagreeing with them too. Still others advocate a return to native American or other aboriginal philosophies: if this is what you mean by novel, then that is a novel use of the term; if you mean something else, then there you are disagreeing with those members too.

Since you are misunderstanding me, I think maybe I did a little too much quoting and not enough analysis. Let me try and put that right. The whole thing is laden with paradox, and it is very easy to lose one’s way. You talk of “same old same old”; I am talking of “plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose”, meaning “different new: same old”. The difference between the two is that my formula is reversible, yours is not. I reverse yours and I get a self-referentially identical “same old same old”; it is also leaves room for deception or doubt: did I actually reverse it at all? How would you know? (See my reference to 666 in post #122). I reverse mine and I get “same old, different new”. “Same old, different new” is one way of describing the marriage of two unknowns, blue and yellow, to produce an unknown green. Incidentally, this is not how Shane says he earned the nickname Mr Green, but it works for him too, as an “uninvited monstrosity” of an Illuminati child. Notice I am not saying what he says is “true”: I am simply taking a datum and seeing how it appears to work (make sense).

Tracking back now, Chesterton belongs to a rare breed of conservative intellectuals. Here in France, the very idea is almost an oxymoron. But if conservative means in favour of the status quo, then clearly he is no more conservative than the aristocrats preserving that status quo are progressives in the political sense of the word. He is on the side of change for the people, which makes him an even stranger beast: a left-wing conservative! So, if we are to make sense of his logic, we need to ditch our old categories. When you talk about “the old system which your author tries to paint as progressive”, you are not doing that, and you are missing the point.

Similarly, you see (one sees) all too many conservative socialists, but you don’t see (m)any socialist conservatives. The former are the aristocratic progressives – the common name is champagne socialists – who preach government by the people for the people and implement government by the elite for the elite. How do they get away with it? By enlisting a “democratic” majority of popular conservatives voting, against their own interests, for aristocratic progressives. There is one category that does not get a look-in here: the popular socialists, who preach government by the people for the people and practise what they preach (Jeremy Corbyn might be one of these). Hence “political integrity” becomes another oxymoron. A clan (in the mafia sense) imposes its mob rule on what it calls the riffraff or, in another reversal, the... mob.

We’re right in Kennedy country here, and you get one of the “great men” you talk about, JFK. JFK did not get killed by a lone nut: he WAS a lone nut. By definition, a clansman who works against the clan is a lone nut, and treated as such by his own mobsters. Chesterton covers this base: his example of the establishment lone nut is the Archbishop of Canterbury, the martyred saint Thomas Becket. JFK literally needed his head examined. Try this:

They wished for his blood,
but they wished even more for his brains. Such a blow will remain forever
unintelligible unless we realise what the brains of St. [JFK] were thinking about just
before they were distributed over the floor. Kennedy was another Mr Green, as we all are, except for his broader incestuous bloodline of would-be Mr Blue-Plus-Yellows. He had [ET-type] disclosure to the extent that found out that he was not alone, he was a man of the people. Hence non-disclosure by the PTB is primarily not about us and ET but about us and us. But Kennedy was still cut off from the people, what cccme calls a “great man” and I call a man on a pedestal, before being cut off altogether. This is nothing new. Julius Caesar was another lone nut killed by the patrician mob, Brutus, Cassius and Co. (see The Assassination of Julius Caesar by the historian Michael Parenti). Hence “great men” is a term that we are asked to find entirely positive, when it is clearly flawed, and enlisting such people, while not a mistake so long as it stops short of reliance, is not going to work without connecting them to their base. We know their madness is actually sanity, but we also need to reverse the “lone” bit by all stepping up onto the pedestal with them.

How do we do that? The one thing that the have-nots need to share most with the haves is education. Education is independent of intelligence. Chesterton’s metaphorical goose on the common (nowadays some would say “sheeple”) is not so much unintelligent as uninformed. To side with the people is the contrary of calling them sheeple, it is to bank on their intelligence, their native wit that is not measurable by any IQ tests, but is nevertheless real. In contrast, the likes of David Cameron and Boris Johnson in England are not so much intelligent as informed. They are second-rate minds with a top education. They know stuff but they have no creativity, making them useful puppets with a sense of entitlement. What is changing nowadays is that the dumbing-down of the people at large is being reversed into a smartening-up. This amounts to a marriage between the intelligent uninformed with the unintelligent informed producing an unexpectedly intelligent informed offspring. But here again, we need to be clearer about what the words mean. Intelligence is not the brain-only variety, but the brain-and-heart kind I am calling native wit. That is to say it is not to be equated with information, a distinction that is notably blurred by calling secret information intelligence. Secrecy is not always smart.

What does this mean for the topic of this thread, the Shane material? It means that while the information is a crucial ingredient, it is only part of the whole package, the message without the messenger. Of course we don’t want to “kill the messenger”, metaphorically speaking, but is killing the message possible without doing that? Doesn’t it amount to dismissing the man as another lone nut? If on the other hand we start by embracing the man, he is no longer alone, and we can focus calmly on what exactly doesn’t add up and the legitimate reasons why this might be – going beyond the confrontational situation of “your truth is my lies”.

This is something I think we collectively have been doing here, and perhaps not too badly, as the intelligent informed able to handle our own perfectly normal disagreements. There is an interesting continuity between Corey and Shane that stems from our interaction with first the one then the other. See this post from Bill:

The two personalities are very different: chalk and cheese.
I do find it intriguing how diametrically opposed these two guys who know each other and come along in quick succession really are. In similar circumstances, Corey hasn’t missed a trick in his nastiness, nor Shane in his niceness: textbook examples of black and white when statistically speaking you would expect nonmatching nondescript shades of grey. It does sound like the study subject is more us than “them”. The likelihoods and implausibilities in whistle-blower stories reflect the various flavours of belief and skepticism in the audience, the various paths and dead-ends taken down the rabbithole by a group of individuals as different as the contributors to this forum.

Let me finish with one more paradox. I have some youtube videos to present here, but to keep this post uncluttered, I’ll just leave links for the reader to follow. We sometimes identify with the message posted now and again on the forum, “I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take any more of this!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE
But this would really be the wrong reaction if we are dealing with a form of collective insanity, as I maintain we are. The appropriate response would then be that of the competent physician-healer-helper doing precisely the opposite: not saying, still less screaming, merely acting, the exact reverse to a patient that includes him- /herself: “You’re as mad/I’m as cool as hell, and I can take as much of this as we need to sort you/us out!”

For example, tomorrow there is a France-New Zealand rugby match; this is an occasion for the Kiwis to present their Maori haka ritual, which is basically naked aggression adapted to the peaceful context of a ball game. Their opponents do not get to choose, and are required to look on respectfully; but any form of passivity is likely to be an energy drain that spills over into the game. If they are to have a chance, they need to show, not passivity, but a possibly disconcerting impassivity – no passion in a passionate way. Here are a few examples from France and Wales.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVa7eCmLFk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcXSNsd9-NY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC5w6wopmpg

[Ewan]

Wonderful post,



that just connected a few dots I'd failed to join myself.

All the resonance I felt was just confirmation of what I already largely held to be true. But interspersed with this was a different narrative that may or may not have any grounding. Without awareness there existed a danger that the two seperate narratives could have become intertwined.

Thanks to you I should hopefully be more vigilant in the future to what I am experiencing whilst reading.

[Johnny]

Sarah made a great post :clapping:

It could be a good idea to refresh Kristin's post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1008768&viewfull=1#post1008768

Kristin mentions "OBSERVE". What Sarah did (in my point of view) was to observe HER MIND !! This is the way to
Dust off your discernment

The mind like/dislike which is connected to our emotions. We can add and subtract to these emotions, but the mind is still working in a dualistic way.

I agree with 'cccme'
Well, now we are getting somewhere.

Thank you !!!

Johnny :)

[Johnny]

I haven't seen this point addressed, so I will bring it up here. There have been multiple posts here that have brought up the fact that this story must be true because Shane is so nice.

I would like to share a personal observation about myself, that has taken many years to discover. In the "real" world, I have always had a reputation as being a really nice person. It is true that I am kind, and it is true also that I almost never create conflict, and walk away from any when it is near by. I never start conflict and will work to end it if it is near by. For most of my life I would have called this an asset, that I am a really nice person. But the reality is that being a really nice person is no different in many ways than being a jerk. It is a way to deal with the world. To be truthful, I have been able to manipulate outcomes in the workplace being a really nice person just as well as an overbearing, alpha personality can, and no one will even notice that it was I that changed the outcome. At other times, the ultra niceness is used so that no one will question my motives. You have no idea how easy it is to be ulta nice and no one will believe you are the thief , even if you have your hand in the cookie jar. In other words, most people can not imagine a really nice person doing wrong, even if they witness it. Most people equate ultra niceness with ultra goodness and quite frankly, that is not the case. I could go on and on.

What I am trying to say, is that being really, really nice does not necessitate a saintly disposition. Just like all personality types, it is a coping mechanism and an egoic strategy. It is also, an excellent tool for manipulation. Most people will never question someone who is impeccably nice. I also must add that not many people can pull off the ultra nice persona, because it takes a strong aversion to conflict to be able to be "nice" all of the time.

I am not trying to say that I and all nice people are sociopaths. I am simply stating that we too can be guilty of all the flaws of humanity that every other personality type can be. I am also not saying that nice people are not truly nice, because I suspect most are. But as long as we are ruled by an unbridled ego, really our personalities are nothing more than coping strategies.

Again I wish there was a 'thank you, thank you, thank you' buttom !!!!

Johnny :)

[Gemma13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd__DR377Ks[/url](Thank you Shane ["The Ruiner"]:handshake::heart::bearhug::beer::music::thumbsup: )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcBnJw-H2wQ[/url](Paul's Mum was Mary)

[Gemma13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcXSNsd9-NY
This link provided above is a really great example of how the players are collectively creating ONE ENTITY, ONE FORCE! When we can finally recognize this power, stop judging and fighting amongst ourselves, and redefine the FORCE that we collectively want to be, we will succeed in arriving at a monumental evolutionary change within our world. The FORCE, that I have no doubt most readers here are ascribing to, is GENUINE SOVEREIGN EQUALITY! The challenge ~ individually ~ is first working out what exactly this means ~ and when we do ~ never surrender to anything less!

[Gemma13]

I simply must add this tributary song here, [which I have stolen from a wonderful person who inadvertently reminded me of this by sharing it somewhere else]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZZjXgJ4W8[/url]

Isn't life strange
A turn of the page
Can read like before
Can we ask for more?
Each day passes by
How hard man will try?
The sea will not wait

You know it makes me want to cry, cry, cry -
Wished I could be in your heart
To be one with your love
Wished I could be in your eyes
Looking back there you were, and here we are.

Isn't love strange
A word we arrange
With no thought or care
Maker of despair
Each breath that we breathe
With love we must weave
To make us as one
You know it makes me want to cry, cry, cry -

Wished I could be in your heart
To be one with your love
Wished I could be in your eyes
Looking back there you were, and here we are.

Isn't life strange
A turn of the page
A book without light
Unless with love we write;
To throw it away
To lose just a day
The quicksand of time
You know it makes me want to cry, cry, cry -

Wished I could be in your heart
To be one with your love
Wished I could be in your eyes
Looking back there you were:

[Gemma13]

Oh, and by the way, this might help.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWRsgZuwf_8[/url]

[ThoughtOnFire]

Shane himself admits that it's just fiction. End of story? Cause it is just a story.

But is there some allegorical type of riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma...

...or a lesson to be learned here?

The following is a post from "The Ruiner's" Blog http://theruiner777.blogspot.com/


The Disclaimer
This is still not disclosure. This is not to be taken seriously. Consider it a work of fiction, forget about it, and move on.

This won't go on forever. It will not predict any dates or expose any characters or crimes.

It is not meant to be taken seriously by anyone who does not choose to.

The writer of this blog has never claimed otherwise.

This is not meant to be a part of the Alternative Community, Truther Movement, Disclosure Movement, or any other source for public exposure of truth, it is just a blog.

Stop reading. Don't follow. Do whatever it is you were doing before some one showed you this blog. These are free words.

The purpose is not to call anyone out or prove or disprove anything. The purpose is not to provide facts about any person, place or thing. The purpose is not provide the public with facts or information.

The Ruiner is a fictional character created by a human being. The experiences shared are unverifiable and therefor not to be taken as facts. This blog is not making any official claims or promises. Neither is the writer.

The writer is not asking anyone to read it believe anything here. The intention is not nefarious in nature or geared to create issues in any of the above named communities or movements. If it is, simple solution - STOP reading or discussing it. This body of work was never presented to your audience by this writer. This writer is not looking for an audience at all. He cannot and does not wish to answer all the questions of the universe.



Pretend this is a living room. The living room and house do not have doors, anyone can come and go as they please.

In this living room is a small gathering of people who ask one person in the group to speak about something.




That is all that is going on here.

Within your communities are great storytellers and some very passionate researchers. This writer is not one of them. He has not even read or heard of many of them. Questions come in all the time about this personality or that, he often has to look them up to even know who they are. You have researchers who have read everything under the sun that they can find and pieced together as best they can all of those pieces. This writer hasn't read most of those books it works. His hat is off to many of those who have.

He doesn't know the full story behind many Whistleblowers or Contactees either. He can see nonsense from too far away and trusts himself. ( So many unpublished comments - apologies ) Millions have some interaction with these things yet, only a few become known to these crowds and those that do are lifted up and questioned about everything in the universe. Care to hear an opinion on "why"? It doesn't even matter, they are speaking.

So go listen to them. They are over there asking you to listen, this writer is here, right now, telling you not to.



~Truth does not need to be disclosed it needs to be remembered~

[sunflower]

Shane himself admits that it's just fiction. End of story? Cause it is just a story.

But is there some allegorical type of riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma...

...or a lesson to be learned here?

The following is a post from "The Ruiner's" Blog http://theruiner777.blogspot.com/




~Truth does not need to be disclosed it needs to be remembered~


Thought on Fire: That's an interesting concept. Shane's writing style and content seem to give that impression. Our human origin is lost in the mists (myths) of time and you are supposed to find that lost bit of history as well as other information of a spiritual nature stored within yourself.

Have you viewed the movie "Inception?"

[Bill Ryan]

.
Dear All:

We've reached the position now where we feel we can make a closing statement in this discussion with confidence. That's not to say that there should be no further comments, but the Avalon moderators' position is now very clear.

Two days ago, one of the mods team was on Skype text chat with Shane, who wrote this (referring to Stewart Swerdlow, who Shane had said earlier had got all his information about the Dracos from himself):

Shane:
I've known Stewart for years now. I was put in touch with him in 2004-2005 ballpark. Mutual friend thought we should talk. Shane may not have anticipated that this could easily be checked with Stewart Swerdlow personally. On being asked if he knew Shane Bales, Swerdlow’s reply was:

Stewart Swerdlow:
I never heard of this person nor have I ever spoken to him. Shane’s lie (a tough word, but there’s no other word to use) brings us to the point where we feel we can close the inquiry, as it were, and don’t need to say any more.

~~~~~~~~

As a footnote, we were also considering sharing a document, a long Skype chat with a different person, in which [gross paraphrase here] when being challenged, Shane stated again, clearly and repeatedly, that everything was fiction.

This is of course what new member ThoughtOnFire gently pointed out above, in his post #214 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1010358&viewfull=1#post1010358). That disclaimer was there since 16 June.

The anomalies have arisen because despite the disclaimer, Shane has been giving interviews as if the material was real, answering questions as if the material was real, defending the improbable authenticity of the Cassandra letters (and other issues) as if they were real, allowing many to believe it was all real, and telling untruths even to friends in private, as if he believed what he was saying was real.

As Shane has stated quite a few times, people are responsible for themselves. Shane is not exempt from his own responsibility in all this.

WHY Shane behaves as if he believes all this is real is an entirely different question. (He’s not the only person on the interview circuit in this situation.)

If he truly believes he knows Swerdlow, when in fact he doesn’t at all, then he has a serious problem — which we can sympathize with, and urge him to address.

~~~~~~~~

Epilogue:

I’ll close by referring to an episode in my own experience, back in 2005-6 when I found myself the innocent messenger at the core of the so-called Serpo affair. At that time, a series of detailed disclosures, containing extraordinary information about an exchange program to another planet, created a storm of interest (and anger), that took even experienced researchers by surprise.

Even the most faithful supporters of the story had to concede that something wasn’t right when the long-promised images of the alien planet Serpo were finally published... and within hours, were shown to be desert photos from an old edition of National Geographic.

The story was dead in the water from that point on, even though it had certainly contained some very interesting truth among all the mountains of disinfo.

The point here is the rage, and outrage, that this generated in the community.

UFOlogists have a long memory, and they’ve been lied to and deceived for an even longer time.

Only the clear truth will work, now, for all except the most gullible, hopeful and credulous. (Sadly, there are still quite a lot of those people around, though not on this forum.)

Someone who declines to play by those rules is likely to have the community turn against them when they discover they’ve been deceived one more time by someone who for reasons of their own is taking advantage of (a) the community’s good nature, and (b) their hunger and thirst for good information.

As several members have pointed out, there may be learning here to be had for us all.

And it’s definitely time to move on. :)

However, this thread will remain open, and comments, thoughts, feelings, and reflections are invited, and most welcome, from everyone here.

[Shadowself]

.... this thread will remain open, and comments, thoughts, feelings, and reflections...

You really don't want to know my thoughts and feelings about this.

One word to sum it: Perversion.

I dub thee Unforgiven.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckom3gf57Yw

[DNA]

Two days ago, one of the mods team was on Skype text chat with Shane, who wrote this (referring to Stewart Swerdlow, who Shane had said earlier had got all his information about the Dracos from himself):

Shane:
I've known Stewart for years now. I was put in touch with him in 2004-2005 ballpark. Mutual friend thought we should talk. Shane may not have anticipated that this could easily be checked with Stewart Swerdlow personally. On being asked if he knew Shane Bales, Swerdlow’s reply was:

Stewart Swerdlow:
I never heard of this person nor have I ever spoken to him. Shane’s lie (a tough word, but there’s no other word to use) brings us to the point where we feel we can close the inquiry, as it were, and don’t need to say any more.

~~~~~~~~

I keep Stewart Swerdlow in the highest regards. The man is a genius, and when he is telling a story, you can tell by his voice, his immersion, his emotion and his recall that what he is saying is true.
I read Stewart's book on the Montaulk program back in 2010 and I simply did not want to believe it. I was left in a state of shock so to speak for weeks afterwards and felt a revulsion to all topics associated with what he was talking about. The book caused me serious cognitive dissonance, and I don't even know if I recommend the book based on what it put me through.

From what Bill is saying, it would appear Shane immersed himself in Swerdlow's work in order to come off like he was an insider, and this makes a lot of sense. :facepalm:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm6Z4syTbiA

[Limor Wolf]

Originally posted by Bill Ryan: As several members have pointed out, there may be learning here to be had for us all.

True (unfortunately so). I borrow these words from another thread- New aspects may come up in the future that may leave the details right the way they are, but may provide another perspective that can change the current outlook

Very few of us understand that the role playing that happens here, rather than having a one player is having a whole cast (and my comment here included). Perheps it would be wise on our part to stop and attempt for a bird's eye's view to better understand the terrain. There are ways to heal things provided that the diagnosis with regards to them is correct

In any case, there seem to be a steep learning curve ahead

Maybe I should find a way to refine this post a little, I was just reading this beautiful thread by Avi - 'Some strange feelings I had lately' where members share and support each other, and would like to copy here a post made by Roseheart -



"It is my belief that those who are "Awake" carry a certain energy with them. You go through the fire, all the fear and programming gets cleared and love fills the void. Once this has occurred there is no switching it off. An awake person can be in a room, not say much at all, and the energy they carry will trigger people into love or expose their fear and programming. This fiercely loving energy is very powerful and right now it is much much stronger than it has been in the past imho. People are getting triggered left right and centre and they are suffering. It is all a part of the cleansing process/transition/healing we are in. It's tough to be a part of sometimes but there is always something that expands you if you let it.
I feel so much gratitude to be a part of this incredible process. Other times I just want to go to bed with a blanket over my head... Lol x "


Thank you very much, Roseheart

The cards may turn out to show a different story than what is presented now, with compassion and respect to ourselves and each other as human beings and openess to learn the truth of our reality as it surface, things may turn out allright

sincere love and blessings to everyone ~

Limor

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I've got a video to share too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2DS6o64vKA

[araucaria]

I see this sort of thing as a bus ride. People get on at various places along the way and get off wherever they need to be. Or they may go all the way to the terminus just for the ride. Or they may miss their stop and get “taken for a ride”. But the bus driver has his own destination beyond the terminus, i.e. the bus depot, and normally if he is doing his job he drops off his passengers before he gets there. Any passenger who thinks he is going to stay with the driver all the way to the bus depot (whether it be seen as a Fema camp or some promised land) does not understand the basic situation of travelling by bus.

Why this doesn’t work on Avalon is because the forum itself operates like a bus ride where most people are familiar with this basic limit and few are expecting to stay with the driver (notably Bill Ryan) all the way to the bus depot. On the other hand, this does not preclude the idea of collectively hijacking the bus on some exploratory trip that may take “some time” (to quote the Antarctic explorer) :)

The issue then is what happens next with Shane? What would be an interesting new development from previous instances would be enough forbearance on everyone’s part for Shane to feel able to stick around and continue to contribute to the forum. You see, this sort of thing is going on all the time, people bending the rules and seeing how much they can get away with, or overstretching themselves without realizing. It usually takes quite a bit, over quite some time, to get the boot. You have members working in husband-and-wife and other teams, most others operating somewhat disguised, with (sometimes variable) usernames (but then in everyday life, you don’t have to know everything about people to get on either). There is a good deal of role-playing, the odd multiple account or banned member returning, and this is how it works. Every time you say something, think of everything else you are not saying! This is not deceit, but simply linear conversation, and it can be fun, until it gets out of hand.

Deceit is another rigid word that needs softening, along with belief. It actually means instilling a false belief. If you stop believing so hard, you won’t be deceived; you might be puzzled, peeved, amused or whatever, but you won’t be deceived. You grow a thick skin of tolerance, live and let live. Formal moderation comes into play when normal direct intercourse breaks down. More than a subjective impression to be possibly established as fact (Shane’s deceit), you have a broader interpersonal difficulty to be settled: how individual members and the forum collectively react to that and to each other’s responses.

We are none of us exactly sure where this bus is heading, but we don’t want to be dropping people off before their stop. Shane is no different from anyone else. It is in the nature of any growing organization to be able to handle increasingly difficult or unusual cases with increasing ease. Growth itself is achieved by drawing in and accepting foreign influences that become naturalized. It is not for nothing that the major planetary issue in 2015 is immigration.

There is no reason why Shane should not have his place here.

Shane has not at any stage actively tried to smear anyone, lie about anyone, gather information about anyone to try to tarnish their reputation, plant false stories about anyone, or write articles attacking the Avalon Forum and what it stands for.

Nor has Shane ever tried to profit financially from all this. (Fabricating claims and at the same time asking for money is a form of theft.)

Inventing a story is one thing, but active malevolence is quite another. The difference may matter to many people.
His niceness is therefore not a mask, and if it were, and if, as I suggested earlier, like an actor you can grow into a mask, it is a good mask to grow into. He has invented part of his story, OK told a few lies: that does not make him a liar. It is a distinction that has to be made in order to preserve both one’s own and the other’s personal “authenticity”. In other words, if you can’t make it for him, make it for your own sake. See these posts:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79735-Rich-people-have-feelings-too&p=931608&viewfull=1#post931608
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79735-Rich-people-have-feelings-too&p=931608&viewfull=1#post931608

[transiten]

Don't dare to bring up my Jungian joke again...the one about lost keys...just arrived home after sleeping at my friends since i thought i had lost my keys...as i was putting on my jacket to go back the road i had taken on my way to her house the night before I heared a sound...my keys were in an inner pocket i had not checked! My train for Stockholm leaves in 2 hours...

Yes there surely is a learning lesson for us here, and may differ for each one of us. Maybe because of the brainwashing I experienced I have somewhat learned the hard way to discern a compulsive liar and I'm thankful that my intuition guided me this time...and of course I will change my mind if something else shows up i was wrong...

[ThePythonicCow]

My present sense is a bit different (and may continue to change.)

When I look at the disconnects between what I figure is accurate, and what Shane is saying, I am reminded of Michael Gazzaniga's left brain interpreter, which can construct bizarre explanations for that which only the right brain knows. I suspect that the severe abuse that many children, including Milabs, experience can fracture the mind, just as injury and medical operations can physically sever it, leaving the verbal portion of the mind with the unenviable task of explaining experiences not consciously knowable to it.

From Michael Gazzaniga's The Ethical Brain (http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/1932594019.html):
========


Experiments on split-brain patients reveal how readily the left brain interpreter can make up stories and beliefs. In one experiment, for example, when the word walk was presented only to the right side of a patient’s brain, he got up and started walking. When he was asked why he did this, the left brain (where language is stored and where the word walk was not presented) quickly created a reason for the action: “I wanted to go get a Coke.”
========

I am reminded of a rule of thumb that I have long found useful. More or less every being can be trusted, to the extent and manner that they are operating from their area of competent awareness, and similarly no one can be trusted if pushed too far outside of that envelope.

As best as I can currently tell, Shane is mostly (none of us are perfect) a person of numerous good qualities, but what he's been telling us on his blog and on follow up discussions on various forums and Skype chats cannot be trusted in any literal sense. Those stories are fractured myth, mixing fiction and truth, in ways that neither Shane nor any of us who been following this can untangle. In ways usually entirely outside of conscious awareness, fractured tales and experiences are being "interpreted" and presented by the verbal left brain.

[araucaria]

Thanks Paul. This goes beyond simply split brain patients: we all have two hemispheres that put a different slant on things. When you are asked to interpret RED and BLUE, youhave a visual component in contradiction with the language component, and to all intents and purposes you have a split brain yourself, a form of cognitive dissonance. So in a communications situation like a forum, the problem is somewhat contagious. If you are looking for a single truth in RED or BLUE, you are not going to find one; you are expecting a yin without a yang but the truth is twofold. Which is not to say there is any deliberate lying going on.

[3(C)+me]

Araucia wrote:
Deceit is another rigid word that needs softening, along with belief. It actually means instilling a false belief. If you stop believing so hard, you won’t be deceived; you might be puzzled, peeved, amused or whatever, but you won’t be deceived. You grow a thick skin of tolerance, live and let live. Formal moderation comes into play when normal direct intercourse breaks down. More than a subjective impression to be possibly established as fact (Shane’s deceit), you have a broader interpersonal difficulty to be settled: how individual members and the forum collectively react to that and to each other’s responses.


Araucaria,
now that I am reading your posts carefully, I see how you love reversals and are very good at it. The more I look for them in your posts the more they jump out at me. Your posts are long, detailed, filled with reversals and dense. But I do not to have the desire to go back and forth only to have us both agree, we can disagree and let's do that now rather than later, translation: I may not respond to any of your future posts.

Deceit is not another word that needs softening it needs to be seen for what it is, a dishonest act in order to a create a false belief, the deceiver does not get off the hook. His act does not need to be softened, ie more acceptable, less subject to calling them out and putting them on blast. He needs to be seen clearly as one who is attempting to sway another with a false belief. The Target of this deceit is responsible for making the attempt to see what is, not what they want to believe, (he is nice and he wants to help us) that a person is truthful when they are not.
We all have been deceived, hell, I will probably be deceived sometime this week let's hope I catch it.

His niceness is therefore not a mask, and if it were, and if, as I suggested earlier, like an actor you can grow into a mask, it is a good mask to grow into. He has invented part of his story, OK told a few lies: that does not make him a liar. It is a distinction that has to be made in order to preserve both one’s own and the other’s personal “authenticity”.

An actor who grows into a mask that is one that lies and deceives as a rule is not a mask that is a good mask to grow into. He may be nice on the eyes, attractive and has great manners. He may prefer it but there will be consequences, people who desire to become more truthful to themselves and expect the same from others will fall away from a man with a mask set to lie and deceive. We all do that, lets not soften it but say yes, "I lied and I am not doing that anymore", because how can someone really trust a regular liar, you can't.
All relationships are built on trust, it is a biggie.

Ok he did tell lies, which makes him a liar. You can't tell lies and not be one. But should we like him/accept him because he is a polite liar? Maybe we can see what is and still accept that he may have a place here instead of wanting to bring out the noose.

Edit, added sometime later.

Your great man=nut job was brilliant and I wanted to tease that apart but that Gordian knot would have taken way too much time but let me say this, (short version) the great men are not the nut jobs, the nut jobs are the people who think taking them out is going to work forever and stop us, it won't.

[Dennis Leahy]

My own sense, post-denouement, relates to the feeling of being remorselessly toyed-with, which is at least disrespectful if not downright sociopathic. For the record, I'm not giving Shane a pass. I don't believe Shane has any knowledge of any of his story being true, even if - accidentally - by repeating something buried in some of the fiction by others that was his reference material, some dark truth saw light. I hope people don't go all "Stockholm syndrome" now, and see Shane as a victim. I certainly don't want him and his stage play confused with what real victims of satanic/ritual/military mind experimentation abuse have gone through - and his tale, as the one whose mind could not be broken, cheapens their experiences and their survival into a trite, formulaic plot.

There are hundreds of places on the Internet for writers to hone their fiction-writing skills and be peer-reviewed. That's not what Avalon is.

There are thousands of ways to use that "15 minutes of fame" that Warhol said we all get. Some waste it on narcissism and hero-pretense. What will you choose to do with yours?

[ThoughtOnFire]

Thanks for the shout out Bill Ryan!

I appreciate your vigilance and dedication to sleuthing!

Despite who knows how many stories there are, one thing is clear...

...The Truth IS Out There!

And nobody is going to ruin my love for good stories!

[gripreaper]

My own sense, is that when anyone comes along claiming to be an illuminati insider, who was forced to participate in human sacrifice rituals, drinking babies blood after they were sacrificed, or torturing virgin young girls until the fear and terror is so abject, then doing unspeakable things to them in this state of terror, always gives me pause.

When someone claims to be a manipulated Mylab who is being used by these nefarious evil psychopaths to see into the astral or to do other despicable things, whose memories are vague and whose very survival is predicated upon some special dispensation, always gives me pause...

When someone claims to be from another planet, to be sent here to influence earths evolution because some higher galactic council wants them to, or because they are just so benevolent , always gives me pause...

When someone says they were abducted by aliens, taken to a spaceship and manipulated, and that they now have some story that needs to be heard, it always gives me pause....

I'm willing to concede that anything we "think" about our reality is probably ten times stranger, and that the existence of all manner of phenomenon is possible, and many of the stories are true, but I can't verify any of it since it is subjective and I have no reference point in my own experience to help me.

I can't tell if the consciousness of the individual has been compartmentalized, some of it wiped out, while another part of their consciousness is being controlled via microwave entrainment, but the real part of the personality which somehow survived is the part which is being sold to me.

No way for me to know until and unless I get to be so spiritual myself, that I can see and read auras and my intuitiveness in my own energy field can read your chakras, then I can unequivocally say with certainty that which I am sensing.

Then, I will come out onto the seminar circuit, tell my fantastic story, write a book, sell DVD's and help others to see the deeper part of their own power within themselves. Oh, and if any of the women want to become part of my entourage, then I should let them, right? I'm going to need an entourage so that your people can talk to my people, right? Then I can be the one that everybody is talking about and I can become the main attraction!

[Sean]

This isn't complicated.

The letters were always a red flag to me, which is why I, initially came out against believing Shane. Those letters were not written by some thousand-year-old soul, not by a long shot. Someone that old would have MUCH better grasp on communication of every form, writing especially, since writing would have been the main form of communication during the majority of such a person's life. People forget we really didn't have e-mail until the early 90's or so. I'd expect "Cassandra's" writing to be stellar. It isn't.

because those letters are fake.

Shane won me over with that next interview. I guess, knowing(well, believing, anyway) that what Shane describes IS real, I was willing to believe he was a part of it. But if He's lying about those letters, if they're falsified, we have to completely discount his whole story. there is no way to verify it. we were solely going on Shane's perceived personal integrity just to get us this far. If, under questioning, he's not forthright, and is the SLIGHTEST BIT evasive..and it sounds like that's what happened, Bill..we gotta dump his whole account of events.

My gut told me this was bull****. I wish I'd listened, and stuck to my guns, because my "spidey sense" is never wrong.

[Selene]

This all comes back to knowing and trusting your own personal experience in matters where someone else’s testimony is being evaluated.

You must first know and understand the limits of your own experience when considering someone else’s testimony. That’s actually the only basis we have for “knowing” anything. The rest is simply “belief” or wishing or repetition of a lie, or going along with the ride for entertainment. It isn’t true knowledge. It isn’t true understanding.

When someone comes in with a wild story, you can only safely accept it – if you are being truly discerning – to the extent that you, personally, have been there and done that yourself. Their story makes sense to you for that reason - but only up to that point. (That’s what “it resonates with me…” actually means. Not: I dig it because I’ve read similar stuff and "everybody else says so" and I like it the vibe….)

The rest must remain “alleged” “purported” “claimed” etc by the other source until/unless further verification can be made. This is not to disrespect the other person, but to engage in a personal process of discernment.

And from there, you must, if you want to explore the issues being raised by their testimony, begin to look more closely at the person’s motives, their history and background, their further credibility, the corroboration of other witnesses, any other evidence presented, etc.

It’s up to you to understand yourself, first. You are as much a component of the story here as is the other party. That’s what true discernment is about.

Cheers,

Selene

[Robin]

Since we're speaking objectively here (which is a good thing), I thought that I would elucidate numerology in an objective way so people understand. Numerology is a system used by Occultists to encode spiritual symbolism in a way they can weave magick into their everyday lives. Numerology is not something that they take lightly, as numbers have a profound effect on the human subconscious.

Dark Occultists use numerology to their advantage to manipulate the subconscious of people for subversive purposes of personal gain. Sometimes, numerology is accidentally used by those who do not understand it, but is manifested from their subconscious to reveal to the person their spiritual state that they are not consciously aware of.

OK...numbers, numbers, numbers. I will not go into details of how numbers influence the subconscious, but readers can explore it on their own. There is a wealth of information on the topic on the internet. I cannot reiterate enough just how important numerology is to Occultists...it is not something that is taken lightly.

There are two numbers that I want to bring forth that everybody should be aware of. These are the number 7 and 6. Remember these.

Now...human consciousness. It is true that Occultists understand consciousness, and the average person does not because it is occulted information. Occultists can use this knowledge to manipulate the consciousness of others, and they DO every day.

There are three compartments of the brain. There is the Neocortex (Human brain), the Limbic System (The Mammallian brain), and the R-Complex (Reptile brain). Each of them is important in having a balanced perception of the world. The four elements - Fire, Water, Earth, Air - are all aspects of our consciousness.

Water has feminine qualities, as it signifies our emotional capacity. Let's assign Water to our Limbic System.
Air has masculine qualities, as it signifies our intellectual capacity. Let's assign Air to our R-complex.
Fire has masculine qualities, as it signifies our Will Power. Let's assign Fire to the left-hemisphere of our Neo-cortex.
Earth has feminine qualities, as it signifies our intuition. Let's assign Earth to the right-hemisphere of our Neo-cortex.

The use of numerology and magick is simply manipulating these elements through ritual, and therefore manipulating somebody's consciousness. This can be done through suggestive influence or other means.

Now...the Trivium (or Trinity). Shane speaks of the Trvium...so all should be aware of it. It can be thought of thusly:


Father > Holy Spirit > Son
Thoughts > Emotions > Actions
Input > Processing > Output
Reptile brain > Mammallian brain > Human brain

The practice of occult Numerology is called Gematria. It is numerological reduction. It is esoteric symbolism.

The number 777 means Unity Consciousness. It means our Thoughts (7), Emotions (7), and Actions (7) are in balance and harmony with one another, allowing us to perceive the world holistically.

7+7+7=21
2+1=3
3 means TRIVIUM BALANCE.

The number 666 means Base Consciousness. It means our Thoughts (6), Emotions (6), and Actions (6) are out of whack. Our chakras are imbalanced, and the way we perceive the world is skewed.

6+6+6=18
1+8=9
9 means TRIVIUM IMBALANCE.

If anyone wants to understand details on why these numbers have power and meaning to Occultists, I would suggest watching between 45:00 - 54:55 of >>>this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDz0GOI1akk) <<<

Basically, 6 is a bad number that Satanists worship, and 7 is a good number that balanced spiritual people strive towards.

Shane uses the name Ruiner777 for a reason. He has been enmeshed in the Occult his whole life, and the use of this number indicates somebody who strives for balance and unity. Not even a disinformation agent would mess with numerology.

Let's say somebody were to use the number 767 in their email address or username. What could this possibly mean, objectively?

7=THOUGHTS in BALANCE.
6=EMOTIONS in IMBALANCE.
7=ACTIONS in BALANCE.

If somebody were to use the number 767 in their email address or username, it is likely that they have no idea about numerology. It is also very likely that their subconscious is trying to tell them something, as numbers depict who and what we are on the inside.

The number 767 indicates that there is a disruption in the Trivium process of this person. Their Limbic System's processing of emotions is a little off. If I were a psychologist, I would read this person as having some issues internally. Perhaps there are some deep emotions that are derived from childhood trauma that cause this person to view the world from a lens of abandonment. Any questioning of their character causes them to lash out and play the role of victim.

Additionally, this person is unwittingly making a mockery out of themselves, and Occultists are laughing in the background. It is likely this person's chakras would be out of balance, and their Trivium (capability of discernment) is not balanced. Who would have thought that one single "6" could mean so much?

Think on it. If you don't understand the objectivity and meaning of this post, then you may indeed need to do more research. It is not intended to be disrespectful at all, but rather a perspective to be aware of.

Respectfully. :)

[ThePythonicCow]

No way for me to know until and unless ...Yup ... no way to know for sure.

[Rusalka]

It seems to me that we have found ourselves in a recurrence – to use the „Jupiter Ascending“ term.

Do you realize that we aproach the matter from a completely wrong direction? We‘ve got it backwards people! I mean the whole „whistleblower tesimony thing“. And I will tell you why.

The first flawed premise is the fact that the community presumes that a standard interrogation can be employed and the truth will reveal itself through the matching statements of 3 or more witnesses. This can work in a normal 3D muggle world – I beg your pardon but I will use this term just for the sake of argument and explanation.

In our field of inquiry however, we need to take into consideration things like memory implants, overlays , channeled information, parallel lives connection and so on.
This inevitably leads to a conclusion, that in this field you can NEVER FIND ANYTHING. Everything is either subjective, overlapping or can be manipulated. Realize that!!!

Well, we should approach the matter from the INSIDE then, not from the outside.

Here comes the second flawed premise whish is the fact that WE SHOULD SOMEHOW WORK ON OURSELVES.

I bet that that everybody here has met many people who have been meditating for years, trying all the various techniques for expanding their consciousness and nothing really TANGIBLE happened. No major breakthrough.

What then.....?

I presume that most of you here have been studying this type of information for a long time.

Aren‘t you sick and tired ?

[Sierra]

Aren't you sick and tired?

Sick and tired of meditation, prayer, intent, being aware of one's state when connecting with others, being aware of one's energetic impact on the world?

No. :)

But it is the hardest work I've ever done.

IMhumbleO, the above is not "information, it is the process of becoming, which is again, IMHO, why we are here, and what we are here for.

If you are sick and tired of the subject matter on Avalon, having arrived October 10th, one week ago, what are you looking for?

If you find the rabbit holes annoying, irrelevant, an aspect of Avalon that spoils the entire journey for you, well, I hear ya, but indubitably the rabbit holes will still be here.

It is your choice, where to put your feet in this pockmarked landscape lol.

Welcome to Avalon. :)

[onawah]

Actually, I know some of those people, but I also know people who have accomplished a lot through meditation and working on themselves. There is no set formula for that, imho.


I bet that that everybody here has met many people who have been meditating for years, trying all the various techniques for expanding their consciousness and nothing really TANGIBLE happened. No major breakthrough.


But what occurs to me finally and seems most plausible is that this whole Ruiner scenario may have been planned (very loosely, of course, since reactions were obviously unpredictable) from the first to create a distraction and to make it that much harder for whistleblowers and truthseekers to do what they do--reveal, discern, and network the truth.
And planned it in order to put the alternative community into further disrepute.
And yes, it is getting tiresome.

[Shadowself]

My own sense, is that when anyone comes along claiming to be an illuminati insider, who was forced to participate in human sacrifice rituals, drinking babies blood after they were sacrificed, or torturing virgin young girls until the fear and terror is so abject, then doing unspeakable things to them in this state of terror, always gives me pause.

When someone claims to be a manipulated Mylab who is being used by these nefarious evil psychopaths to see into the astral or to do other despicable things, whose memories are vague and whose very survival is predicated upon some special dispensation, always gives me pause...

When someone claims to be from another planet, to be sent here to influence earths evolution because some higher galactic council wants them to, or because they are just so benevolent , always gives me pause...

When someone says they were abducted by aliens, taken to a spaceship and manipulated, and that they now have some story that needs to be heard, it always gives me pause....

I'm willing to concede that anything we "think" about our reality is probably ten times stranger, and that the existence of all manner of phenomenon is possible, and many of the stories are true, but I can't verify any of it since it is subjective and I have no reference point in my own experience to help me.

I can't tell if the consciousness of the individual has been compartmentalized, some of it wiped out, while another part of their consciousness is being controlled via microwave entrainment, but the real part of the personality which somehow survived is the part which is being sold to me.

No way for me to know until and unless I get to be so spiritual myself, that I can see and read auras and my intuitiveness in my own energy field can read your chakras, then I can unequivocally say with certainty that which I am sensing.

Then, I will come out onto the seminar circuit, tell my fantastic story, write a book, sell DVD's and help others to see the deeper part of their own power within themselves. Oh, and if any of the women want to become part of my entourage, then I should let them, right? I'm going to need an entourage so that your people can talk to my people, right? Then I can be the one that everybody is talking about and I can become the main attraction!

I hear you Grip. It's turning into a real show.

What I find most offensive is most in this situations you describe a person would not want fame or money. Just some damned truth and justice.

Is that too much to ask for these days?

[Sierra]

I hear you Grip. It's turning into a real show.

What I find most offensive is most in this situations you describe a person would not want fame or money. Just some damned truth and justice.

Is that too much to ask for these days?

I don't think so.

It wouldn't be a waste of time to listen to a Richard Dolan, Paul LaViolette or Jay Weidner interview. Gold diggers like Corey or attention seekers like Shane, not so much. If I start to feel like I'm hearing music in a scale I don't like, it's time to listen to something else.

There is no such thing as useless knowledge, even from those I think have not spoken the truth or who have distorted truth to fit a personal agenda. I've noticed discernment has quickened in the years I've spent on Avalon.

[Dennis Leahy]

... indubitably the rabbit holes will still be here.

It is your choice, where to put your feet in this pockmarked landscape lol.

Welcome to Avalon. :)Beautifully said, a great reworking of Lewis Carroll's perfectly descriptive allegory. :~)

[Shadowself]

I hear you Grip. It's turning into a real show.

What I find most offensive is most in this situations you describe a person would not want fame or money. Just some damned truth and justice.

Is that too much to ask for these days?

I don't think so.

It wouldn't be a waste of time to listen to a Richard Dolan, Paul LaViolette or Jay Weidner interview. Gold diggers like Corey or attention seekers like Shane, not so much. If I start to feel like I'm hearing music in a scale I don't like, it's time to listen to something else.

There is no such thing as useless knowledge, even from those I think have not spoken the truth or who have distorted truth to fit a personal agenda. I've noticed discernment has quickened in the years I've spent on Avalon.

I hope so. It's hard enough to understand these things if one has not experienced them ....but when you add lies to the mix it just fuels the flames for those who would suppress it.

[Sean]

I think..that the reason us "seekers" get caught out there on an oke-doke(translation: tricked and lied to) is that we keep seeking outwardly what is in ourselves. There will always be a "shane" ready to play with people, for whatever reason. It's taken me many moons to learn this, but, every person incarnated on earth is capable of every type of "siddhi", every kind of "channeling", OBE, remote viewing, etc etc etc. sure, when you want to learn how to make these things better, you seek out those who have walked the path before you. BUT, never give your power to them. Trust your own discernment. You(we) really are that powerful, and we forget that. I know I do.

TL:DR version: You don't NEED a "shane", a "simon" or anyone else. The information on our "controllers" is out there. You just need you.

[onawah]

Unfortunately, this:
every person incarnated on earth is capable of every type of "siddhi", every kind of "channeling", OBE, remote viewing, etc etc etc. sure, when you want to learn how to make these things better, you seek out those who have walked the path before you.
...can also open a huge can of worms. If you aren't yet capable of discernment, then you may also not be capable of ascertaining who among those who are purported to be teachers of that kind of development are authentic.
Many people spend years learning this to their cost.
Whenever I hear the kind of message that says that something very complex and difficult is actually simple and that we only need to do this or that, I am reminded that we humans function on many levels, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc.
And in order for us to remain in balance and healthy, we have to develop those levels in a balanced way.
The mistake that I see so many make is to try and develop on only one level and to become an expert at that level.
In that way, balance and wholeness are sacrificed, which are necessary aspect of being truly human.
I think that learning about the world outside of us as well as inside of us is important if we are to be in balance.
And I think it's safe to say that those who try to develop their powers without also developing the other levels of their being are going to create a lot of problems for themselves.
Powers develop naturally as we develop as human beings, as it's natural and safe for that to happen.
The additional problem now is that there are forces and groups that are trying very hard to keep us from developing at all, and I think we need to understand them as well as we can if we are going to deal with them effectively.
And if they have, as Castaneda's teacher Don Juan put it "given us their mind", then we also have to look inside to see how that affects us, and understand that seeking power instead of balance and wholeness can be a dangerous trap.


I think..that the reason us "seekers" get caught out there on an oke-doke(translation: tricked and lied to) is that we keep seeking outwardly what is in ourselves. There will always be a "shane" ready to play with people, for whatever reason. It's taken me many moons to learn this, but, every person incarnated on earth is capable of every type of "siddhi", every kind of "channeling", OBE, remote viewing, etc etc etc. sure, when you want to learn how to make these things better, you seek out those who have walked the path before you. BUT, never give your power to them. Trust your own discernment. You(we) really are that powerful, and we forget that. I know I do.

TL:DR version: You don't NEED a "shane", a "simon" or anyone else. The information on our "controllers" is out there. You just need you.

[Sean]

Unfortunately, this:
every person incarnated on earth is capable of every type of "siddhi", every kind of "channeling", OBE, remote viewing, etc etc etc. sure, when you want to learn how to make these things better, you seek out those who have walked the path before you.
...can also open a huge can of worms. If you aren't yet capable of discernment, then you may also not be capable of ascertaining who among those who are purported to be teachers of that kind of development are authentic.
Many people spend years learning this to their cost.
Whenever I hear the kind of message that says that something very complex and difficult is actually simple and that we only need to do this or that, I am reminded that we humans function on many levels, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc.
And in order for us to remain in balance and healthy, we have to develop those levels in a balanced way.
The mistake that I see so many make is to try and develop on only one level and to become an expert at that level.
In that way, balance and wholeness are sacrificed, which are necessary aspect of being truly human.
I think that learning about the world outside of us as well as inside of us is important if we are to be in balance.
And I think it's safe to say that those who try to develop their powers without also developing the other levels of their being are going to create a lot of problems for themselves.
Powers develop naturally as we develop as human beings, as it's natural and safe for that to happen.
The additional problem now is that there are forces and groups that are trying very hard to keep us from developing at all, and I think we need to understand them as well as we can if we are going to deal with them effectively.
And if they have, as Castaneda's teacher Don Juan put it "given us their mind", then we also have to look inside to see how that affects us, and understand that seeking power instead of balance and wholeness can be a dangerous trap.


I think..that the reason us "seekers" get caught out there on an oke-doke(translation: tricked and lied to) is that we keep seeking outwardly what is in ourselves. There will always be a "shane" ready to play with people, for whatever reason. It's taken me many moons to learn this, but, every person incarnated on earth is capable of every type of "siddhi", every kind of "channeling", OBE, remote viewing, etc etc etc. sure, when you want to learn how to make these things better, you seek out those who have walked the path before you. BUT, never give your power to them. Trust your own discernment. You(we) really are that powerful, and we forget that. I know I do.

TL:DR version: You don't NEED a "shane", a "simon" or anyone else. The information on our "controllers" is out there. You just need you.

I understand your point..but that can of worms NEEDS to be opened. and, considering what "they" have done to us..we need to open a can of "whup ass" right after that can of worms.

It's always safer to contemplate change, and stay in the BG theorizing.

There are times that ACTION is required, and RISK must be taken. Otherwise, nothing changes.

It's "go time" and we have to do stuff, or, when we incarnate here again, it'll be exactly the same, except we'll have newer gadgets/better technology etc. but the controls will still be in place.

We have to CHALLENGE the control matrix. Not just talk about it.:blackwidow:

[quiltinggrandma]

I must opologize to shane for an earlier reply.I was thinking today about what he said,words,words,words.I now think he used certain words as cues to open us up-to expand on our conciousness.We all have same and different cues.I also learned that we are all in this together.I held back from discussions from feeling that my lack of education couldn't possibly offer anything,but i could only learn.That triggered,giving and recieving.So please bear with me fellow avalonians while i take baby steps to bliss.I know now that i won't wake up tommorrow totally enlightened.It's a process for all of us.Sorry for bad spelling,words,words,words.Peace,love,and light to all of you.And thank you to bill for watching over all us chickens(thadeus golas,"lazy mans guide to enlightenment")

[Kristin]

I must opologize to shane for an earlier reply.I was thinking today about what he said,words,words,words.I now think he used certain words as cues to open us up-to expand on our conciousness.We all have same and different cues.I also learned that we are all in this together.I held back from discussions from feeling that my lack of education couldn't possibly offer anything,but i could only learn.That triggered,giving and recieving.So please bear with me fellow avalonians while i take baby steps to bliss.I know now that i won't wake up tommorrow totally enlightened.It's a process for all of us.Sorry for bad spelling,words,words,words.Peace,love,and light to all of you.And thank you to bill for watching over all us chickens(thadeus golas,"lazy mans guide to enlightenment")

We are all "chickens" learning with you! Thank you for being here and giving your best! Very much appreciated :)

[Jhonie]

My view of 'The Ruiner' was and is, just another distraction....

[3(C)+me]

Workingactor wrote:
I understand your point..but that can of worms NEEDS to be opened. and, considering what "they" have done to us..we need to open a can of "whup ass" right after that can of worms.

It's always safer to contemplate change, and stay in the BG theorizing.

There are times that ACTION is required, and RISK must be taken. Otherwise, nothing changes.

It's "go time" and we have to do stuff, or, when we incarnate here again, it'll be exactly the same, except we'll have newer gadgets/better technology etc. but the controls will still be in place.



cccme:
Not to put you on the spot or anything workingactor but what do you propose we do?

[Sean]

I've thought a lot about "what to do"..I've said before, in other threads, to use what you have from where you are.

well, I'm "in hollywood", I act, I'm a musician-in-training..I plan to use my skills to create something that challenges the controllers. could be a song, a script, etc. Something that attacks, exposes, illustrates what we're up against. Get it out there. then do it again.

Create for the purpose of destruction.

I'd say, everyone should look at yourself, your skillset, and ask yourself..what are you willing to do? what are you willing to risk?

art can change the world. Music can change the world. It can inspire revolution. WE should inspire revolution, with whatever is in our personal toolbox.

Do you want to incarnate here 500 years from now, and see the same damn thing going on? Or do you want to strike now? break down the control now?

we're not helpless. We're too powerful for helplessness.

GO.

[OmeyocaN777]

I've thought a lot about "what to do"..I've said before, in other threads, to use what you have from where you are.

well, I'm "in hollywood", I act, I'm a musician-in-training..I plan to use my skills to create something that challenges the controllers. could be a song, a script, etc. Something that attacks, exposes, illustrates what we're up against. Get it out there. then do it again.

Create for the purpose of destruction.

I'd say, everyone should look at yourself, your skillset, and ask yourself..what are you willing to do? what are you willing to risk?

art can change the world. Music can change the world. It can inspire revolution. WE should inspire revolution, with whatever is in our personal toolbox.

Do you want to incarnate here 500 years from now, and see the same damn thing going on? Or do you want to strike now? break down the control now?

we're not helpless. We're too powerful for helplessness.

GO.

I agree with you about the circle of reincarnations......i want also to stop this.
The revolution that i prefer it starts inside me.....

As Einstein said:

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle, requires creative imagination and marks real advance in science."
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."
"Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them."

I'll stop here.....i think you get the picture.....

My point is to start vibrate/thinking/acting like a 5d soul does (3-4d are full of traps and manipulations-you know from who-you can say that they are teaching us in a way).
An example of it you can read in my previous Post #183.http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1009811&viewfull=1#post1009811
A good start is to use our imagination/heart chakra to heal others (when you send love-healing energy to someone is returning multiple times back to you).
We can go even one step beyond.......meditate in one power place of mother earth, help her to accelerate her frequency....
When one place is clean from negative/blocked energies all the beings living around profits from that.
We can make even a small group-ritual with a focus-intent love energy to multiply the effect....
Send Love out there people, we live in times that everybody are imbalance and they truly need it......

[araucaria]

Cccme (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1010673&viewfull=1#post1010673), anyone is perfectly free to hold opinions contrary to the ideas I am exploring, and to express or withhold those opinions as they see fit. But they must allow me the same liberty not to call my ideas opinions: they are more malleable than that. I need that malleability in order for them to evolve, the same malleability that I am applying to other notions such as belief and deceit.

Regarding Shane, see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85903-Anomalies-in-The-Ruiner-s-material&p=1010637&viewfull=1#post1010637) by Paul. Whether or not it applies to the case at issue, it is an explanation of how deceit can be the wrong concept in a given situation. If a man tells you he is Napoleon, he has a problem. But you have a problem of your own if you believe him. He is not deceiving you, but you are deceived by your own ignorance of his medical condition. Or take a woman caught stealing: is she a criminal, or do you take mitigating circumstances into account? What if she is stealing food to feed her family? That would simply make her a good mother in financial straits.

Take conspiracy: the critics of conspiracy theory don’t see the need for an overarching evil force governing every single event that happens in the world. This makes a good deal of sense. But when the man in the street puts it down to “human nature”, you see that this simpler explanation merely transfers some overarching evil force to human DNA. Alternatively someone like CG Jung comes along and makes a professional diagnosis of collective psychosis to which many but possibly not all may succumb. Once again, the terminology has changed, but we are still talking about the same thing. And yet, what we see on the largest scale is no different from what we see on the smallest scale. At the very top of this conspiracy, you have mythomaniacs taking themselves for Napoleon, the one difference being that people are listening to them. The deceit is self-inflicted through ignorance of the condition. And sure, crime exists, but as we know, a great deal of crime has other causes than bad people plain and simple. In the above example, do we send a shoplifter to prison, or do we change the economic circumstances that led to the crime? Now transpose this to the largest scale: the need to understand and probably change our terminology is similarly crucial. When the legal term “mitigating circumstances” is translated into everyday compassion, the appearance of laxity in the legal system looks more like the normal sensitive behaviour of tailoring one’s responses to the individual one is dealing with. But there always seems to come a point when this no longer works for us; the crime is too serious, and it’s Off with their heads! I think we need to overcome that barrier, which indeed has a name: the incurable psychopath. Otherwise, we should have to define what is going on and at what point we switch from the forgivable to the unforgivable. The death penalty can only be a valid punishment for someone who sees death as final, so the big unanswered question of our time is What do we do with, i.e. how do we cure, the incurable cases?

Shane’s mythomania is only the reflection, way down the pyramid, of this basic mythomania from the top down. As far as I can tell, the reptilians’ chief characteristic is that they like to rewrite history in their own favour – up to and including drafting in Napoleon himself, who was recently described as having been microchipped. I have never been to a mental institution, but I am sure notions like truth and belief and deceit have to be left in the lobby on the way in. The trouble is that we have entered this mental institution thinking it was a government building. And the reality of our plight stems from the fact that so far it has been both. The next, obvious step has to be to separate the two. We need both mental institutions where mythomania is dealt with knowingly and compassionately, and government buildings where mythomania is largely absent.

Uncovering government deceit and lies is only the first step. Discovering that such people are guided by reptilian entities that no one else can see is another. To consider seeing such creatures as a symptom of a medical condition might be yet another. If that hypothesis has any validity, then the spread of the phenomenon to more and more experiencers would be alarmingly symptomatic of the spread of this collective psychosis rather than any awakening of the population; and, on the contrary, the desirable outcome would be to see them as an illusory phenomenon to be dispelled like the myth of the Emperor’s new clothes.

The question then changes. Right now it is, “Do (I believe) reptilians exist?” One may accept there is enough evidence to conclude that they do exist in a certain kind of mind – but that does not amount to accepting that they actually exist. To think otherwise would be akin to accepting the question “When will you stop beating your wife?” One is self-deceived into accepting an untruth. If on the other hand you accept that reptilians do exist, but specifically in a certain kind of unhealthy mind, you are actually stating that they don’t exist otherwise, i.e. in a healthy mind, still less in the real world.

Notions like deceit and lies do not come close to conceptualizing this issue. Since I appear to like reversals, here is one more: :) They say Satan likes it best when people think he doesn’t exist. Actually, Satan likes it worst when people know he doesn’t exist, not even to the extent of being a subject capable of liking beyond the fictional world of this sentence.

PS. I’ve just seen your Add-on, thank you. To be perfectly clear, when I said “lone nuts”, I was referring to JFK seen from his enemies’ viewpoint, not ours. And I have nothing against great men; au contraire, we need to swell their ranks, until they become simply normal men.

[OmeyocaN777]

When someone doesn't believe that reps exist, i can fully understand it and really i don't have a problem with it.
But nobody can ignore the fact that the reptilian energy/thinking exist inside us also (rep-brain).
This energy is useful for a example when we are in danger or to defence (survive).
The problem starts when we lose the balance between the 3 main parts of our brain.
We all know that they exist people that take pleasure when they learn that something bad happened to another person or they have a way to critisised everybody and getting pleasure of it (that they are better) when they focus only in the negative side of the character of the person or they are servise to self e.t.c
These kind of souls that they used to behave like this, they lost their balance (connection to source) and became psychopaths (psychic vampires).
SO even if we don't believe that reps exist, we can't deny the fact that still we have this energy to balance inside us (matrix-experiment).......
Believe it or not, these kind of souls that vibrate/thinking in this kind of way is matter of time (or incarnations) their soul to "possesed" by reps frequency and becoming one........
So i apologise about the energy of this post but i felt the need to be clear on it because it's critical to understand the meaning of balance before we proceed.......

Peace and Love