Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it. [Archive] - Page 2

greybeard

26th June 2010, 18:13

Certainly in the case Of David Hawkins there is no ego and the self of him is the same Self as the Self of Ramana etc it also the same Self as the Self of you.
Hawkins says he is not actually in the body, "People talk to it but thats the way it is here"

We cant fully understand till we are in that state but David Hawkins comes closest to describing what it is like.
Awareness remains and that is eternal. That is what you are and I are as One. Awareness.
There are levels of God awareness (even that is not absolutely correct) The first being full enlightenment as described by Hawkins. He is not saying he is God God as I understand it.

I have reposted this froma previous page.

There is so many thoughts on what enlightenment is that I thought it best to get it straight from the one who is in such a state.

There are levels of enlightenment and after fully transcending the ego this is an account of the final state
copied from the book "I Reality and Subjectivity" by Dr David Hawkins MD Ph.D

"Suddenly without warning, a shift in awareness occurred and the Presence totally prevailed, unmistakable and all encompassing. There were a few moments of intense apprehension as the self died, and then the absoluteness of the Presence inspired a flash of awe. This breakthrough was spectacular and more intense than anything before. It had no counterpart in ordinary experience. The profound shock was was cushioned by the love that is the Presence. Without the support and protection of that love, it seems that one would be annihilated.
There followed a moment of terror as the ego clung to its existence, fearing it would become nothingness. Instead, as it died, it was replaced by the Self as Everythingness, the All in which everything was known and obvious in its perfect expression of its own essence.
With non-locality came the awareness that one is all that ever was or can be. One is total and complete, beyond all identities, beyond gender, beyond even humanness itself. One need never again fear suffering and death.

What happened to the body beyond this point is immaterial. At certain level of spiritual awareness, ailments of the body heal or spontaneously disappear, but in the Absolute state such considerations are irrelevant.
The body will run its predicted course and then return from whence it came. Its a matter of no importance, Reality is unaffected. The body is an it rather than a me; just another object like furniture in a room. It may seem comical that people still address the body as though it were an individual you, but there is no way to explain this state of awareness to the unaware. It is best to just go about ones business and allow providence to handle the social adjustment. However as one reaches bliss, it is very difficult to conceal that state of intense ecstasy.
in this final apocalypse of the self, the dissolution of the sole remaining duality of existence versus non existence dissolves in Universal Divinity and no individual consciousness is left to chose. The last step, then, is taken by God."

greybeard

30th June 2010, 10:19

Good day!!!
Particular people, teachers, we dont need but without the wisdom of those who are experienced where would we be? -- in ignorance.
Even top singers athletes teams etc have a coach to keep them "aligned".
There is only One voice only One teacher and that is the same Self--- consciousness manifesting though billions of forms.
The paradox is that there seems to be the many but there is only the One substrate.
Thanks to all contributors, you teach me so much.
Chris
Namaste

greybeard

30th June 2010, 20:58

Ramana Maharshi said that you use a thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away.
So the intellect, the mind, is used to transcend the ego then both are let go of.
It is through devotion to Truth that the necessary spiritual energy is summoned up to do this.
An awareness develops so that every time the ego creeps in there is that realization of what is happening, a personal agenda a self-centeredness arises but now it is see for what it is and surrendered to God.
Bit by bit it becomes easier, self begins to transmute into Self, life become easier as a new way of looking at it becomes normal.
Perception is changing, there is now, no challenge that enough love can not overcome.

Dr Hawkins has both a heart and mind approach.

This is my favorite book by Dr David Hawkins and it has helped me immensely

Regards Chris

Discovery of the Presence of
God: Devotional Nonduality
by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

Description...

This, the sixth book in a progressive series by the author,
finalizes and further clarifies the true nature and core of the
condition termed “Enlightenment.” Although it draws on consciousness
research for explanation and contextualization, it is primarily an
instruction manual for the serious spiritual devotee and reveals
information that is known only by those who have transcended the ego to
reach Divine Realization.

This is the inner route from the self to the Self, and the
descriptions of the progressive states are devoted to the reader’s own
Illumination.

The subjective states of the mystic have been of great interest but
historically never have been clarified to the degree presented in this
semi-autobiographical account that also provides the means by which to
identify their rare occurrence and thus describe the core
characteristics of Spiritual Truth.

Devoid of ecclesiastical doctrine or religious belief systems, the
pristine essence of all spiritual Truth is revealed in its purity with
unprecedented clarity. It becomes clear that to truly “know” is to “be”
rather than to “know about.” Why all of Dr. Hawkins’ books begin and
end with “Gloria in Excelsis Deo!” becomes apparent.
Dr. Hawkins is an internationally renowned psychiatrist, physician,
researcher, and pioneer in the fields of consciousness research and
spirituality. He writes and teaches from the unique perspective of an
experienced clinician, scientist, and mystic and is devoted to the
spiritual evolution of mankind.

http://www.veritaspub.com/

greybeard

1st July 2010, 12:13

Courtesy of Mudra

The Nature of Thought

The following article is an excerpt from J. Krishnamurti’s book ‘The Nature of Thought’ (Brockwood Park, UK 1979).

I is conditioned by fear, by pleasure, jealousy, ambition, greed, by anxieties by our loneliness by our desperate uncertainty. If one sees the consequences of all these conditionings, then it stops naturally. That is intelligence. This freedom is the only light to yourself. To have insight to all this is the leap into freedom, by anyone who is attentive and trying to understand this confusion of life.

Can one exist in life without the image of "me"? Once we gain attachment through the image of me, the whole problem begins. The Greeks and the ancient Hindus talk about it and that is "to know one's self". One has to discard all authorities to find one's self. Authorities can thought investigate me? Knowledge is incomplete. Thought cannot study myself, because it has created me. One cannot be in oneself to do the analysis. The only way to do it is through observation. Observation observing and not observation of observing one's self. Is there an observation without me?

We have divided the world and me as separate, but there is no difference. The ‘me’ with all the anger, violence, superstition has created that world. The world is me and I am the world. Organized by the underlying psychological aspect of the people. When I examine myself, I am examining the whole of mankind. The responsibility is much greater. You are one and the same.

Is there a possibility of looking at myself in the mirror without the interference of thought. Thought interference creates distortion in the mirror. Thought is limited, it is mechanical. The me is living.

What is the mirror of which I can see myself without illusion, distortion and inference of thought? Is there an observation of myself without thought distortion? The mirror is relationship. Ideals are thoughts and they close off reality. To observe in the mirror of relationship of what exactly is happening. Just observe without thought. The Greek word "Idea" means to observe is the real meaning. Not observe and form an idea after, which is what is happening to us in the world now. Real Intelligence: That I realize that the world is me and I am the world.

That I can only observe myself through relationship. Mirror of relationship. To observe and see in the mirror to see what is exactly happening without interference. To observe that which is pleasant and not pleasant without thought. If there is an observer there is still thought and the past comes back in. If you observe nature without thought of self, why can't you do the same with yourself? You may be afraid that you will lose something, if you observe yourself in this way. Your status, your nationality, your friends. How to observe the mirror? The observer is the observed. Can you look without the observer? This is real. This takes the activity of the entire human mind to do without "I like" or "I don't like", but the totality of the human being. Here is the point. I do not own the image of who I am which I send off to everyone. That is why religion and political powers are destructive, because they separate. We are not separate. We cannot have unity of mankind through religions or United Nations or totalitarianism spreading through the world. We can only have a good society when nationalism is dissolved. The revolution is not physical it is psychological. Don't change the others to suite yourself as governments do. Intelligence is very simple, it is looking at reality without the observer.

Proper meditation is the ending of me through silence.

Love Always
mudra

Chris

john.d

1st July 2010, 18:41

I just watched this and thought you might enjoy it :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM8b4Ggjg30&feature=player_embedded

John

greybeard

1st July 2010, 20:27

Bashar rules OK
Thanks John.d

truthseekerdan

2nd July 2010, 18:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wulfCQecDzg

greybeard

5th July 2010, 17:37

How does one discern Truth?
Thats a biggie.

The traditional path is a safe one.

It can be summed up in the first two commandments.
The essence of which are.

Ist Love God with all your might.
The ego hates to play second fiddle to anything.

2nd Love your fellow man (without exception)
The ego hates the thought of anyone being put before itself.

Unconditional love and forgiveness is what Jesus taught.
Nothing else is needed.

The ego cant abide unconditional love where you put the wellbeing of others before your own.
Extreme selfishness is its domain..

Every Mystic/ Enlightened one has taught the same as the first two commandments since time began. There has never been a secret teaching that would take you closer to God.

The Enlightened ones never say, you must follow my teachings others are invalid, because there is only Oneness coming through them without exception.

I went to see Eckhart Tolle in London along with thousand of others at St Jameses' Church. They had to turn people away the church was not big enough.
He quoted Rumini.
The essence of the quote, as my memory, is of essence not detail.
"I am a hole in the flute that the Christ breath flows through listen to the music"
Not the flute even, but the hole in the flute.

I suggest that if you look for a teacher to guide you listen to one who is not even the flute. Eckhart Tolle and Dr Hawkins are holes in the flute. There have been many before and will be again, the music remains the same.

Eckhart Tolle also said that all present (at London talk) would go out and teach without teaching.
Every soul who deeply commits to God, surrenders to the will of God, aligns personal will to His will regardless of religion or lack of it is a silent teacher of Truth.
Every soul who is raising their personal vibration is raising the vibration of the field of consciousness and the good thing is that the closer you get to God, the higher your vibration, the more powerfull it is. One soul with the vibration concurrent in unconditional love is raising the consciousness of millions, not by doing but just by being what they are.
So is prayer and meditation important to the survival of the human race ?
You bet it is.

Love c

greybeard

8th July 2010, 20:04

On the one hand there is no such thing as the ego. Its just thought based and identification with the me story in the head. On the other hand the pull of the ego seems very real.
Ramesh Balsekar said "God gave you an ego, let Him remove it" So many paradoxes in spiritual teachings but they are addressed to different levels of understanding and each level seems so real.

Yes the ego is transformed into the spiritual seeking ego, it think it is going to be enlightened, just not so, enlightenment is a non agenda, ignorance free nonduality, ego-less state, timeless.

Witnessing is very powerful, the moment the ego is found out to be not what I am, it begins to loose power.
There is a state known as the witness observer.
One can with practice be totally aware of what the me is doing, of the conditioning and the program that is running the mind and therefore the actions
One can be in this world and yet not of it.
Surrendering is also powerful.
When inappropriate action beckons, temptation is in the face, weakness is overcome by the act of surrender.
There is tremendous power in having the humility to ask God for help.
What would be difficult for the little me is effortless, like a feather weight for the Divine.
All the Twelve step programs AA being the for runner are based on the principal of life being unmanageable with out the assistance of a Higher Power.
The ego will try everything to show the Alcoholic that it can control the drinking or addiction, it just doesn't have the necessarily power to over come the fatal illness.
So the narcissist ego cant accept it is helpless it would rather see the Alcoholic dead than accept help.
Fortunately many (millions) do, through humility, realize that they have hit rock bottom and seek seek help and through the fellowship, sharing, caring and unconditional love thy find in AA rooms throughout the world, they become sober useful citizens of this world.

C

RedeZra

10th July 2010, 02:59

Hi Chris

Im dropping in with a copy-paste of something you wrote in another thread
but I think it's more on topic here so here we go lol

Yet God in the His ultimate state is pure love and unconcerned because He knows we never left Him we never left heaven, its an illusion but so real.

are we really home already ?

don't you mean God never left us alone on Earth but wants us as residents in Heaven

maybe you mean only God Is - but then there is no us in Heaven see hehe

greybeard

10th July 2010, 06:06

God is the totality all of it. We only seem separate.
Is the wave separate from the ocean? Best I can put is like a step down transformer.
Lest say Ultimate God is infinte power/ voltage God as creator slightly less, male and female aspects slightly less.
Archangels 50.00 volts. Avatars 1000 volts first stage Enlightenment 600 volts, human unconditional love 550 volts. integrity human beings 200 volts, a dictator 65 volts.
0 volts there is an absence of power, God, light. The electricity is all the same (God) but in varying degrees of power.
The energy coming from an enlightened one is so powerful it balances the negative energy of millions.
The voltage scale is logarithmic, I have modified Dr Hawkins map of consciousness to suit.
Its in Power vs Force. Hint Lol
RedeZra you have read the Indian masters and you know as much as I if not a lot more.
Only God is. The kingdom of heaven is within how could you leave it?
You tell me?
Lol
c
Love C

RedeZra

10th July 2010, 09:17

Only God is. The kingdom of heaven is within how could you leave it?
You tell me?

if only God Is - who am I - am I God

there is a trap here - a seductive snare

one of misidentification as to what is of God and what is of one's own delusions
confusing one's own thoughts emotions and actions as if it is of God

the Kingdom is within and the key is Truth and the light is Love - and a Name of God is a lantern
on the road to Heaven - Home of the Souls - which is a state of mind as is our experiences on Earth

it is possible for the Soul to merge with Infinite Consciousness- that is an extraordinary event - but nevertheless purposely possible

greybeard

10th July 2010, 10:44

if only God Is - who am I - am I God

there is a trap here - a seductive snare

one of misidentification as to what is of God and what is of one's own delusions
confusing one's own thoughts emotions and actions as if it is of God

the Kingdom is within and the key is Truth and the light is Love - and a Name of God is a lantern
on the road to Heaven - Home of the Souls - which is a state of mind as is our experiences on Earth

it is possible for the Soul to merge with Infinite Consciousness- that is an extraordinary event - but nevertheless purposely possible

Yes I agree totally and it is in line with the analogy re electricity. 100 volts will give you a nasty shock 20.000 volts will kill you.
So we all have the essence of God. The wave cant say I am the Ocean but the Ocean ( God ) can say I am the wave. He became all of us without diminishing Himself.
Yes is the word M something? Meaning to merge with God -- that is final.
So God realization -Enlightenment is a large step closer to being one with God.
Whatever the ego has to be transcended obstacles removed or surpassed.
However RedeZra have your read about Indras dream? Or the in breath and the out breath of God?
So many steps on the journey home RedeZra but we have made a start.
Love Chris

Ps thats where 14 Chakras and I disagreed, He thought we could become greater than our Creator.
I think you said that we could say that we can have an intellectual philosophical thought that we are God but until it happens in subjective experience it is not true. The caterpillar is not the butterfly though the potential is there.
Good talking with you RedeZra
C

Beren

10th July 2010, 10:49

greybeard

10th July 2010, 11:06

It's the exactly same situation when you say to your seven year old child that he or she is like you , well he/she are like you but in the same time ,they are not. They can not make decisions for themselves, they can't even make a healthy meal or most of them still do not know how to dress or bath properly- now imagine that you persuade that child that he/she has the power of decision of good and bad? Of light and darkness? Of what is moral and what is not...

A disaster would occur immediately .

Same is with persuading people that they are gods...

Good to see you here Beren
Yes God is a responsible parent, we never get more to cope with in a day than we can handle, though the ego would say otherwise.
We are children and we are given according to our needs, we were given matches/atomic power not to play with but we have misused most of the gifts given.
Chris

greybeard

10th July 2010, 11:21

RedeZra
My partner Rosaline is from Cameroon.
She said if I go out and meet her dad he will make me a minor Chief of her tribe.
I dont know whether she was being serious or pulling my leg.
So maybe if you ask God nicely he will make you a minor god.
Let me know how you get on. Lol
God wont mind he has a sense of humor.
C

Deega

10th July 2010, 13:47

Hi All,

Ruth Snowden in Wikipedia defines Ego: “In modern English, ego has many meanings. It could mean one’s self-esteem, an inflated sense of self-worth, or in philosophical terms, one’s self. However, according to Freud, the ego is the part of the mind that contains the consciousness. Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality-testing, control, planning, defense, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory”.

Ego acts on us in such a way that it perpetuates who we are! Would it be unconditional love that perpetuate life in us…?, and by being conscious, we may work on ourself, nurture our being “love” in such a way that our ego leave incremental spaces for the acquired vibration…! I think it does!

I humble think that we may “transcend” ego by being “love”, by being in tune (intellectual, emotional) with the different worlds (mineral, vegetal, animal, human, invisible).

Best to you all.

Deega

greybeard

10th July 2010, 14:34

Thanks Deega for your input.
Yes you are right it all comes down to being love to the best of our ability.

Love c

zenith

10th July 2010, 15:44

God wont mind he has a sense of humor.
A God who takes offense.
What a grand joke.
I wonder who started that one. :lol:

RedeZra

10th July 2010, 17:03

So we all have the essence of God. The wave cant say I am the Ocean but the Ocean ( God ) can say I am the wave. He became all of us without diminishing Himself.

here you say it beautifully Chris

we have the right and it is right to feel good and great about ourselves for we are gods
it is nice to know that only God Is for this knowing makes one think speak and act godly

when one feels with every cell and fibers of the body mind and soul that only God Is
Realization strikes at any moment like lightning and Enlightenment is experienced

this experience can come and go for a while before it becomes a permanent state above mind
just longing and looking for God draws one nearer and raises one's awareness

so many think of God as either nonexistent or passive with an attitude of nonintervention
that is a laugh for the ones who know that only God Is and is in fact the only active animator

mind makes misidentifications - which is pretty funny - for mind is as you know nonexistent
it's just a bunch of more or less wrong perceptions leading to more or less wrongdoings

if one sticks to the road of righteousness - which is a commitment to right thinking and an adherence to right actions
the veil that covers the inner light will slip like a fig leaf

so it's important to know what is good and right and then think and act on it
wrapped up in wrongs one feels unhappy unworthy and ashamed

yes Im familiar with Indra's dream and the Inhale and Exhale - I do it all the time hehe

always nice to talk to you Chris - or is it Chief now lol

Ba-ba-Ra

10th July 2010, 17:32

Regarding the ego: My personal experience is that as long as you have a body you will have an ego. Ego was originally intended to keep the body out of physical danger, since the soul is usually unable to feel the pain of the body. (i.e.: the ego was intended to tell you to take your hand off a hot stove, because it will burn, or to tell you your necktie is too tight, or not to step in front of a car.) Since most of us spend most of our time connecting to the body, this has given the ego more power. To shift the power away from the ego, we have to shift our focus to our soul (Or higher self, or spirit or whatever you prefer to call this part of yourself). How to shift that focus is the trick. Anytime you are creating anything be it music, poems, art, creating a lovely garden, etc. you are connecting to your higher self. Meditation also connects one. Focusing 100% on any aspect of materialism keeps you in the ego, which is a good thing when you're crossing a busy street! ... This does not mean we have to retract to a cave or mountain top. It simply means keeping the balance of one foot in each world & staying more aware of our souls and asking, asking, asking our souls for guidance. Unfortunately most of us have both feet in the material world the majority of the time. I personally have found singing consciously helps me connect. And of course, loving unconditionally. Perhaps we all have our own methods, but we must stay conscious of this other half.

I hope my perspective helps. Ba-ba-Ra

grace

10th July 2010, 20:35

Regarding the ego: My personal experience is that as long as you have a body you will have an ego.

if it is impossible for form to be separate from god, which i believe it is, then our body is an extention of god and the ego is just the illusion of separation.

marcel messing -"we see with god's eyes, our hands do god's work"

kriya

10th July 2010, 20:49

if it is impossible for form to be separate from god, which i believe it is, then our body is an extention of god and the ego is just the illusion of separation.

marcel messing -"we see with god's eyes, our hands do god's work"

Yes, if we make God the doer in all we do, we can transcend the ego. Not so easy to do though!! As we need to manifest God consciousness in every day life.

Love,

Kriya

shiva777

10th July 2010, 20:53

God is also the EGO...everything is God...your body,mind,thoughts,feelings...yeah BA BA RA ..you understand...it's funny how thos thread is so full of ego's needing to tell other ego's what the ego is...lol...God is the greatest comedian and his apprentices mostly don't get it

Ba-ba-Ra

10th July 2010, 21:02

if it is impossible for form to be separate from god, which i believe it is, then our body is an extention of god and the ego is just the illusion of separation.

marcel messing -"we see with god's eyes, our hands do god's work"

I agree and disagree. I believe "we see with god's eyes, our hands do god's work" when we are connected to our higher selves; however, in my mind the murderers, pedophiles, etc., hands are not doing god's work and that is because they do believe in separation and are not connected to their spirits. And yes, the ego is an illusion of separation (a very persistent one I might add) but so is everything in the material world - and we are in the material world.

Trust me when I say I'm not trying to convince you that my perspective is right - I'm just trying to shine the light on another perspective. I believe that as long as we all keep searching and exchanging ideas we will all grow.

Thanks so much for your response, Ba-ba-Ra

Keep searching

kriya

10th July 2010, 21:13

I agree and disagree. I believe "we see with god's eyes, our hands do god's work" when we are connected to our higher selves; however, in my mind the murderers, pedophiles, etc., hands are not doing god's work and that is because they do believe in separation and are not connected to their spirits.
Keep searching

If you wait long enough even a piece of coal can become a diamond. We each have a spark of divine consciousness, it just takes some longer to realise it.

@Shiva, you clearly haven't read any of the great masters that have come to share their knowledge with the world, otherwise you wouldn't have written what you did!

Love,

Kriya

grace

10th July 2010, 21:16

Yes, if we make God the doer in all we do, we can transcend the ego. Not so easy to do though!! As we need to manifest God consciousness in every day life.

Love,

Kriya

so true
.

Trust me when I say I'm not trying to convince you that my perspective is right

same here, just enjoying the conversation. i agree, i should have said that our bodies have the potential to do god's work... so having a body is not necessarily being separate from god as long as, like kriya said, we are completely aware and acting through godly consciousness.

although, i'm not convinced that all the bad things weren't god's ideas also, or at least allowed by god for a divine plan.

kriya

10th July 2010, 21:32

, i'm not convinced that all the bad things weren't god's ideas also, or at least allowed by god for a divine plan.

Yes its a grand cosmic drama " I am the Alpha and Omega, I create the darkness and the light". Unfathomable...... but true.

Sorry Chris......back to the ego

Beren

10th July 2010, 23:34

No wonder why it`s called EGO trips... You have to go through them to experience them. Then it`s wise to let go .
Love ,love and see what happens!

;)

greybeard

11th July 2010, 11:53

Beren

11th July 2010, 12:58

I really feel good that comment is not required from me to keep the thread going, not that anything is really necessary, thats just ego Lol
I would love to shut up and go off for a good while and come back and see that the thread is still in good health.
It was never meant to be "my" thread.
Chris
Namaste

It`s ours now!!!!! hahahahahahahah .... Greybeard - your nick reminds me of a pirate`s nick ... :-) But in this case you`re a pirate that steal wrongs from others and turns them into goods. Taking away wrongs from others leaves them in better position to embrace goods...

har har har Greybeard the white pirate!
:-)

greybeard

11th July 2010, 15:46

It`s ours now!!!!! hahahahahahahah .... Greybeard - your nick reminds me of a pirate`s nick ... :-) But in this case you`re a pirate that steal wrongs from others and turns them into goods. Taking away wrongs from others leaves them in better position to embrace goods...

har har har Greybeard the white pirate!
:-)

I wanted to be a Swash buckling Bluebeard in my youth, be a hero. God thought differently.
We make plans and God laughs.
Dharma not to be denied.
So there you have it.

It wis nae me.
Translated means.
It wasn't me.

C

greybeard

13th July 2010, 10:08

Attention seeking, there is part of us that wants to be noticed.
Thats ok up to a point.
Problem is that the ego wants to be Mr Fix It and take all the credit for the end result.
It perceives that some thing is wrong / broken and rushes in to sort it without being aware of longterm consequences.
The Cure can be worse than the disease.
Sometimes the best action is to let it be.
A lot of the problems in this world are caused by people with genuine motives disagreeing forcibly with other people who have genuine motives.
Agenda creeps in, separation creeps in.
For example we have just seen violence erupt in Northern Ireland after a long settled period of calm.
If you asked the perpetrators you can be sure they would give a logical answer, that resonated with themselves, that they were righting a wrong and that they had a genuine historic grievance.
Churchill said that "History is one damned thing after another"
If we live in the Now as advocated in Eckhart Tolle's book " The Power of Now" then we would not be hostage to the baggage of the past.
Having the humility to let go of past baggage is a big but powerful step, you could call it forgiveness,
Without that we cant enjoy the perfection of the present moment.
The ego cant stand the present moment, rarely is their enough drama in it. No need for a Mr Fix It.
Ch

Operator

13th July 2010, 13:24

On request a summary given in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?353-Marcel-Messing&p=34318&viewfull=1#post34318):

I sometimes try to tell people that there is no good and bad ... just a bunch of people each with their own agenda. Some of the agendas
appear to be benevolent for the community and some of them are straight out malicious.

I try not to have an agenda anymore ... it will make you manipulative. But did you know you can be blamed for not having an agenda ?
They will tell you that you are passive and that you don't contribute. If you do not acquire and gather stuff they will tell you that you are not
successful and probably suffer from a depression or so ... In the mean time they seem to forget they also get free help themselves and then
think of it as being just normal ...

If you don't have an agenda you're not asserting force on them ... people are not used to that, they miss it like a training boxer needs a
sparring partner. Having said that ... it looks like a chicken and egg problem. When there would be no agendas there would be no
learning/training for the souls coming here to do so. Or would it simply mean we're all ready then ?

RedeZra

13th July 2010, 16:13

I sometimes try to tell people that there is no good and bad ...

sometimes it's easy to idealize and speak sweet from the mental world
but let's not forget the practical physicality to life with all it's seeming diversity

there is a distinction between good and right - wrong and bad - night and day

much is just inventions and regulations of mind - but a few are Divine decrees
like do not murder and do not deceive steal and lie

of course if Divinity does not exist
then those decrees are just empty concepts like everything else and anything goes

if humanity is the crown of creation and there is nothing higher - then good and bad cease to exist and we can do what we want and get away with it

look around you - take a good look at the world and tell me what you see
do you see peace harmony and good will among man - do you see what is done in secret

the slogan is - I don't believe in God so I can do what I will - and the generations grow up and believe it too - that there is no Divine authority and no God to ask and answer to

"Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants" –William Penn 'founder of Pennsylvania'

Operator

13th July 2010, 16:23

sometimes it's easy to idealize and speak sweet from the mental world
but let's not forget the practical physicality to life with all it's seeming diversity

You just took half a sentence and used it to portray your own points ... which comes back to the 2nd half of the same sentence in my original post.

greybeard

13th July 2010, 16:47

I feel that we are, as a human race --"WORK IN PROGRESS"
On the one hand we as yet, or most of us anyway, need the strong guidance some of that coming from the ten commandments.
Now we are in a period of change, some have got it some are heading there and some not.
When we are sufficiently spiritually developed we will not need the rules and regulations, the duality will cease to exist, it will become redundant, past history.
We will not need those particular learning tools.
Judgment is mine sayeth the Lord.
We need to focus in all that is good to make the transition.
Making others wrong or evil has not worked.
God forgive them they are spiritually ignorant.
Because right action will happen automatically then with the full realization that we are one.

We can only lead by example now, its a time for change.
Chris
Namase

greybeard

13th July 2010, 17:24

Just saw on the News the Northern Ireland riots described as "Recreational violence with a sinister agenda"
200 Police attacked by a crowd of lunatics.
There are some people who are spoiling for a fight, they are to be seen on the front row of very protest fueled with glee.
Do I see it as evil? No I see it as insane, they are mentally ill, they should be in a mental asylum.
The ego likes to be part of a protest group it will go to any lenght to prove it is right and guess what????
In order to be right you have to prove some one wrong, in other words an enemy has to be found.
I would rather be happy than right
Agenda!!!! What agenda is there worth killing anyone for?
Yet ordinary people can be moved by propaganda to throw petrol bombs at the police.
A police woman got hurt and people cheered, on the news.
They must think she deserved it.
Just mob madness.
So thats my semi rant.
May God forgive them.
That is a demonstration of the ego at work so thats why we need threads like this to make us aware of the need to transcend ego and grow close to God through removal of ignorance and devotion to truth of the spiritual variety..
c

greybeard

16th July 2010, 22:01

Important video Carl Calleman Rare Video Interview Concerning July 17-18 Harmonic Convergence in news section
Posted by Tone3Jaguar
thanks to him.Important video Default Carl Calleman Rare Video Interview Concerning July 17-18 Harmonic Convergence.

We have to individually together set an intention for unity conciousness.
Its about the law of attraction.
If we dont have an intention what reason would we have for thinking it will happen.
The 9th wave of The Mayan calender is coming up.
We need to prepare for it by deciding what we personally want
We need to be as one heart.
Dualist consciousness is all about the "me" in that my interests are paramount and that is to the detriment of others.
Unity consciousness is about us and our collective good.
Please watch the video it seems important.
Regards Chris

PathWalker

16th July 2010, 22:30

greybeard

17th July 2010, 05:18

The video is in the News section accessible from the home page.
Sorry cant do link but heres another
Courtesy of Lilac on the really good news thread.

Unity consciousness July 17-18th
All over the world people are gathering with the intention to create unity consciousness...watch this video for more information:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv1iLEfIAKo

I read a book by an Englishman who became enlightened walking in a park. All of a sudden he was aware that in no way was he responsible for making his feet go left right so to speak. He had an intention to walk then the body took over, he was no longer necessary.
Thats true of all of us in everything we do.
I cant remember the Englishman name.
Chris

greybeard

17th July 2010, 11:31

If you wage war on the ego you will loose.
First you tame it, love it appreciate what it has tried to do for you, only then can you transcend it with the help of the Divine.
As one Sage said "God gave it to you, let Him remove it."
Chris

greybeard

17th July 2010, 22:53

Eckhart Tolle says:
Viewpoints, opinions, and mental positions are all thoughts – the thought says “this is how it is”, it is some kind of judgment or perspective on things. To be identified with a mental position is to derive your sense of self from that mental position. It’s a substitute identity, form identity, ego – a substitute for your true identity which is formless and has nothing to do with any thought – but is consciousness itself.

Chris

Thinker

18th July 2010, 16:21

I found this video interesting and thought I would bring it to the conversation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIydrSMyNq0

This video introduces an interesting problem for my previous assertion (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3727-BP-is-murdering-us) regarding Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

This video explains to me why Tom Cruse holds such a strong negative opinion of Psychiatry. It initially left me without an explanation for observable and predictable unwanted behavior in myself and others.

The inability to apply chemistry to mental disease is not proof that it does not exist. Just as the inability to apply chemistry to the Sun is not proof the Sun does not exist. We are left to observe the effects of the Sun.

I know from my experience with spirituality (personal growth) that repetitive patterns can be broken, however this requires a recognition and commitment on the part of the individual.

The problem remains that there are persons among us who fail to pursue personal growth and consequently apply their immature comprehension of themselves and others as justification for atrocities on others. Many of these underdeveloped persons are promoted to positions of responsibility and power for their ability to produce results. Also the culture we live in seems to praise and admire these immature individuals. The observation of witch occures like mass insanity.

Any thoughts?

greybeard

18th July 2010, 18:16

Hi Thinker
I watched the video with interest.
As I have said on several occasions I had to go to AA to get me fixed.
A story.
I had a corner shop when I was quite young before I realized I had a drink problem.
This distinguished looking man would come in first thing every morning and buy whisky and pre packed bacon, nothing else.
One day I checked the bin out side and found the bacon, this happened several weeks running.
Much later on being admitted to the mental hospital for acute alcoholism I found I was to be treated by this man a Psychiatrist.
He couldn't cure himself or me but AA helped me overcome the disease of alcoholism.
There is some scientific evidence that alcoholics have part of their brain different from others.
They used to cure acute depression with electric shock treatment, ancient evidence was that people shocked by electric eels were never depressed again.
There is some evidence that depressed people and bi-polar --- used to be called manic depressive I think---- lacked seratonin in the brain(might have the wrong name) seratone seems to negate the lack.
Now the main part of your post.
Dr David Hawkins whom I mention frequently is by profession a Psychiatrist but he shunned the normal methods and therfore at one time before he retire had the largest psychiatric practice in America in New York. Basically what he did worked, people were cured.
In his book Power vs Force he has a map of consciousness and explains that we are born at a certain spiritual vibration, those lower down the scale are the dictators war mongers of the world, they can be very clever and ruthless obsessed with getting their own way. Narcissistic. They believe they are right and cant see that they are damaging the world, therefore no need for them to change.
On a video he mentions one test that shows how left brained and therefore not having a fully developed or used frontal cortex in the brain are selfish in their behavior--- monkey island ways.

A test is, at a very early age a child is left alone with a favorite sweet having been told that if he does not eat it he will be given four sweets, the child is only left for a standard time, cant remember but say 4 minutes. The ones that cant resist are the ones that tend to grow up to be re-offending criminals, they have no means of delaying gratification. They want it they must have it now and can justify any action to get it. They steal from or mug old ladies and say "Well they asked for it" they actually believe their reasoning, victim mentality that the world owes them.
I would recommend that you get "Power vs Force" a fascinating book.
Dr Hawkins says that as we grow spiritually we become more right brained, the actual physiology changes.
Regards and thanks for the question
Chris

Thinker

19th July 2010, 15:45

My one time best friend is a 25+ year AA survivor (little joke). When we became friends he took me to different 12 Step groups. None of which resonated with me. Many stories included abuse. I had not been or administered abuse. Others kept repeating the same drama story over and over. I was able to complete and move on quickly. After several years he attended the Landmark Forum and asked me as his guest. I immediately signed up and participated at Landmark for 5 years. A couple I met at Landmark offered me a copy of Tony de Mello’s lecture. I listened to it until I could recreate parts of it. Later I listened to The Power of Now CD. Listening to The Power of Now was like listening to the thoughts in my own head. After a significant financial success I bought several educational programs in the hopes of more financial success. I eventually discovered that I do not possess the ruthlessness necessary to make those programs successful. It did educate me to the point where I knew that the financial new was a lie. I began to search for a more reliable news source. The more I searched the more I discovered the extent of the deception. The only source of knowledge I have discovered that is not contaminated is mathematics. Science, Language, Religion, Government, Health, Finance are all mired in extensive deception. Very freighting and depressing stuff and so unnecessary.

The cure for all this deception is; “Awareness, Awareness, Awareness”. Or as I put it Wake-Up, Grow-UP, and dare to say no!

The problem remains, that there are persons among us who fail to pursue personal growth and consequently use their immature comprehension of themselves and others as justification for atrocities on themselves and others. Many of these underdeveloped persons are promoted to positions of responsibility and power, for their ability to produce results. Also the culture we live in seems to praise and admire these underdeveloped individuals. The observation of witch occures like mass insanity.

Deega

20th July 2010, 00:30

Hi Chris, great Tread!,

Tonight, I was surfing the web and I came up accidentaly to Ekhart Tolle with a presentation on the "ego". The video was produced May 2010. I thought that people would appreciate viewing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbj4nLOPN8o&feature=player_embedded#!

All my blessings.

Deega

greybeard

20th July 2010, 09:03

Great relevant video Deega
You sure brought home the Bacon
Thank you very much.
Chris

Deega

20th July 2010, 12:41

Great relevant video Deega
You sure brought home the Bacon
Thank you very much.
Chris

Thanks GreyBeard, all my pleasure,

I loved the expression, and glad to have added a piece of the continuing puzzle "ego".

All my blessings.

Deega

greybeard

21st July 2010, 08:51

Causality is the belief of the ego.
It likes to think that it is the doer, that is just not so.
We are born with a certain potential and we are the perfect individual person from moment to moment.
The criminal is the perfect criminal, it may be in his potential to change, society may create an environment where change is possible and beneficial for the criminal to become a credit to himself and society, but if it is not within his potential nothing will make him change, he will just get clever at avoiding the consequences of his actions.
Every thing and everyone is acting within the field of their potential.
I may want to be a champion tennis player but if I am five foot tall that is not going to happen in-spite of my dedication practice and desire.
There will be many things that I can achieve within my potential of course.
I may wish to change a person or the world with the best intention but that will not happen unless the person has the potential and the desire to change, thats free will.
Being positive I believe there is real potential now for a changed world. If enough of us want this, it improves the potential for it to happen., hence the new signature.
Regards Chris

Anchor

21st July 2010, 10:57

{this is an edited repost of a post I made on PA1 in 2008, I wanted to repost it as it is an ego thing - lol}

There is a nice definition here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_materialism

My definition is: the treatment of your spiritual gifts/abilities as possessions, potentially with glamorous or awe inspiring qualities, or as objects that can provide status, or means of feeding the ego through recognition.

This is an error I make all the time. I wish I didn't. These days when I make errors, I get some kind of karmic backlash or "catalyst" condition that helps me realise fast (same day, same hour, sometimes same minute!) what is going on.

I wish I were perfect, but I am not. I sometimes like to think I am wiser than I am. This can make me sound condescending or arrogant. I don't think I am, but an error is an error - and when I do it here it really ticks people off. I might even be doing it now.

As an incarnated human wanderer, I landed with a complete set of baggage, replete with all the neat spiritual tools and gizmo's, but like lots of us, I lost or forgot the frikkin' instructions. Worse still I seem to have acquired an ego that paints a picture of myself to myself - and which actually leaks out as I relate to others. This ego, gets proud - especially when I work out how to use some of the tools in my kitbag that I forgot how to operate before. It likes to sneak in demonstrations and wow the audience, but that is so bad. It's like eating cake when you know you should be fasting.

So anyway, that ego frequently gets me into all sorts of trouble and I remember a past incident when I was lead into a bit of a spiritual materialism trap. As it seems to be now, Karma was swift in the application of corrective measures. A pain manifested in my throat that made it difficult to keep talking. I could sense something was up so I asked "myself" internally what the problem was, and was rather humbled to get the answer along the lines of "your ego is the problem". How embarrassing. Well I already knew where I had gone wrong - that is in the nature of eating cake when you shouldn't right? So I decided to fess up and told the person I was talking to, and was rather humbled with his reply "We all have egos mate".

So to recap, elements of my conversation, ego driven, had been spiritually materialistic - resulting in a spiritual kung-fu chop to the throat. Figured out what was wrong. Stopped it. Pain was gone next day. Hooray!

I am sorry that I do this sometimes. I think I have forgiven myself but I can't promise it won't happen again, but I will try.

greybeard

23rd July 2010, 04:51

Thank you John for sharing.
Everything we do has consequences thats not the same thing as making something happen.
When we seem to make something happen it appears that we have control of outcome, though the out come really is dependent on circumstances and our potential.

The law of Karma is quite different.
A murder is committed the perpetrator will at some point in time suffer the consequences in direct proportion to what he or she has done.

However time being the consequences may be that he or she appears to get away with it.
The deed might not be detected as murder. Somebody else, an innocent may be charged with it, they might be found guilty or not as the case might be.
The actual murderer may be charged with it and be found guilty or not.

It can be seen from all that there is no actual cause and effect as there is no guarantee what will happen when action is taken.

Chris

Scott

23rd July 2010, 05:29

I was watching this video and thought of this thread :)
Enjoy

Dr. George Steinfeld talks to Alan Seinfeld about Cognition and Perception and New Realities
dnyGKGOSEDg

greybeard

23rd July 2010, 05:54

Hi Aztar
Thanks very much for the video which I am downloading to watch later.
Regards Chris

norwaymike

23rd July 2010, 07:14

My reply to this post needs to be put onto a context. I have extensive NLP-training, experience with hypnosis, therapy and coaching - 20 years. the question of Ego often pops up around me and I share with you my experiences. There is really no such creation as the "Ego". We do have a conscious and unconscious mind however. Human psychic development will always proceed from a state of only conscious awareness, towards awareness and cooperation between the conscious and the unconscious minds. This will lead to the inclusion of the higher self into a triad of levels of consciousness acting together with each other in a conscious understanding of each identity and purpose.

"Ego" - if we must use that word - has to be the state of consciousness whereby the conscious mind perceives itself as being the boss of living and therefore strives to get as much control over the environment as possible. Being alone, like on an island, there is little room for altruistic behavior. Therefore ego serves itself - even at the expense of others.

Ego - is uninformed of its true identity and purpose in life - to listen to and cooperate with the unconscious mind to gain direction in life and work together towards a common goal - development.

greybeard

23rd July 2010, 07:31

thanks for sharing Norwaymike.
yes I was a N.L.P and Hypnotherapy practitioner, before I retired, also.
The founders of N.L.P. stated in their first book Frogs into Princes. "We don't necessarily tell you what is true we tell you what works" laughing.
Hence the title of this thread and much of the content is about transcending an illusion a mere thought but a very powerful one.
Regards Chris.

Thinker

23rd July 2010, 18:25

Aztar,
Excellent video

“Trauma comes and trauma goes, but what are you going to do about it?” – Paul Simon

The part that I think most people are having trouble with is “challenging their beliefs”. Recognizing that any thought or belief is an invention of the mind and a willingness to throw it out, like a bad idea. To use Christianity as a reference this is what I think John the Baptist was referring to when he invited people to repent. My understanding of repent is to abandon an old belief system or thought that has never or is no longer working. I spent 6 months to a year throwing out every thought/belief I had. After a while I found it like quicksand and decided to incorporate some foundation to build on, always knowing that I could always throw out anything that did not work at a future point.

Prior to seeing this video I had considered the possibility that challenging people’s beliefs was a violent act. However I had never herd it expressed clearly and unequivocally as in this video.

The part I am willing to examine/embrace is this concept of taking on others transgressions, as a means of allowing them to heal and overcome poor choices. I require additional evidence of its validity.

The system the Illuminati has put in place gives people choices which they are ill prepared to make or should I say preprogrammed to make. Financial ruin or concentration camp guard, choose! Financial ruin or Fascist bully, chose! The monetary system we have imposed on ourselves is truly manipulative and destructive. Hopefully we will have the wisdom to throw it out like a bad idea.

end

Thinker

23rd July 2010, 18:28

greybeard,
I’m going to challenge your beliefs and hope you will accept this violence upon your thoughts in the spirit in which it is intended.

With respect to "karma" you said; “…the perpetrator will at some point in time suffer the consequences…”

I don’t subscribe to the notion of karma occurring over time. I see this as one of the greatest misinterpretations of karma and this interpretation has done a lot of harm in the past 3000 years. The example I like to use to demonstrate my observation is O.J. Simpson. Prior to the murders he was not a particularly intelligent man but he was intelligible. When I heard an interview of the man after the trial in LA, he sounded as if he had completely lost his mind. I conclude that he drove himself insane up until the murder and after committing the act his insanity was traumatically indelibly etched in his mind. No one need watch and wait for karma to be revealed at some point in time, one only need look with sufficient wisdom to see that karma is timeless. This example can also serve to illustrate the timelessness that some spiritual teachers point to.

I believe that all our actions are 100% consistent with our thoughts and beliefs. To commit murder we must first believe / think that murder can solve our problems. To believe murder will solve our problems we must become insane.

“Trauma comes and trauma goes, but what are you going to do about it?” – Paul Simon

end

greybeard

23rd July 2010, 19:07

RedeZra

23rd July 2010, 20:15

To use Christianity as a reference this is what I think John the Baptist was referring to when he invited people to repent. My understanding of repent is to abandon an old belief system or thought that has never or is no longer working.

When they said REPENT REPENT - I wonder what they meant - L. Cohen

if there is a righteous way of living

then repentance is the remorse for not living righteously

repentance is an opening for God to intervene and set one straight again

Thinker

23rd July 2010, 21:52

When they said REPENT REPENT - I wonder what they meant - L. Cohen

if there is a righteous way of living

then repentance is the remorse for not living righteously

repentance is an opening for God to intervene and set one straight again

I don't know about remorse in this context... (If you declare you are a failure, then it must be true. Why are you declaring it?)

For God to intervene we must have an opening. Throwing out an old belief creates the opening. Perhaps more accurately; considering the possibility our beliefs are not working is the opening.

end

Thinker

23rd July 2010, 22:09

Hi Thinker
You are welcome sometimes it a bit like talking to my self and I am really happy to see the activity here now with splendid contributions, yours included.
There are may definitions of Karma one simply means action.
In the context I used it, I meant that no one gets away with anything. Judgment is mine sayest the Lord.
Bit by bit I am letting go of all belief systems, including the concept of Karma.
Yes it all timeless and Karma can be instant.
Seems that everything happens in the formless, time less, then it manifests here.
Because we live in duality at the moment this beyond our subjective understanding.
Regards Chris

You said; "...Karma can be instant."

I'm saying it’s always instant, and the belief that it is not is perpetuating the practice of revenge, justice, retaliation, punishment, retribution, execution, divine intervention... When or if we ever abandon the belief that others need to pay, we may discover a new level of compassion.

end

greybeard

23rd July 2010, 22:34

You said; "...Karma can be instant."

I'm saying it’s always instant, and the belief that it is not is perpetuating the practice of revenge, justice, retaliation, punishment, retribution, execution, divine intervention... When or if we ever abandon the belief that others need to pay, we may discover a new level of compassion.

end

Of course there is compassion. Karma is not revenge. its what you sow you reap.
You created it therefore it comes back to you.
It has nothing to do with anyone else, revenge etc does not enter into, no one else is involved it is all down to you.
I am sorry that people do not realize this.
You are master of your own destiny.
Regards Chris
Chris

greybeard

23rd July 2010, 23:06

Humility is the great opener.
God removes what we can not but we have to ask.
C
Namaste

Thinker

23rd July 2010, 23:40

Of course there is compassion. Karma is not revenge. its what you sow you reap.
You created it therefore it comes back to you.
It has nothing to do with anyone else, revenge etc does not enter into, no one else is involved it is all down to you.
I am sorry that people do not realize this.
You are master of your own destiny.
Regards Chris
Chris

I’m sorry I’m having so much difficulty conveying my idea.
I’m suggesting there are two categories:

Possessing a time component
Revenge
Justice
Retaliation
Punishment
Retribution
Execution
As you sow so shall you reap
Possessing no time component
Karma

Any use of Karma with a time component being a failure to distinguish the difference between Karma and group 1, unless you know another word which fits category 2 better.

end

RedeZra

24th July 2010, 02:20

I don't know about remorse in this context... (If you declare you are a failure, then it must be true. Why are you declaring it?)

to repent is to admit and acknowledge the imperfections and the shortcomings

whatever they might be

so that God can help you back on the right track

if you don't repent then you are not really willing to change for the better

and God doesn't usually interfere with your free will

no you don't have to bow your head before God

He is a friend

Thinker

24th July 2010, 04:19

to repent is to admit and acknowledge the imperfections and the shortcomings

whatever they might be

so that God can help you back on the right track

if you don't repent then you are not really willing to change for the better

and God doesn't usually interfere with your free will

no you don't have to bow your head before God

He is a friend

RedeZra,
Thanks for getting back to me.

I think we are saying accentually the same thing. I am attempting to say it without religious terminology that I am usually unclear about the meaning.

Like; “God”, you have your idea and I have mine. You say; “imperfections and the shortcomings” and I leave it out because it is assumed given I am human. You say; “God can help you back on the right track” again I assume or take this for granted because if it weren’t for God as I understand him we would not be able to do anything. Also; “God doesn't usually interfere with your free will”, I have no way of discovering if or when God interferes.

In short I leave these things out of my thinking and speaking. My thinking gets cluttered rather than clarified by adding these terms.

When I repent I abandon a thinking or belief that does not serve me and since I am committed to serving God I assume this serves him as well. Usually God let me know when it does not.

end

RedeZra

24th July 2010, 06:07

You say; “imperfections and the shortcomings” and I leave it out because it is assumed given I am human.

this is high thinking Thinker

life is a bloom into perfection

petals unfolding to reveal the Pure consciousness

that emanates light and love which animates all this life

one is not a human forever for it's not the last level in life

greybeard

24th July 2010, 08:03

this is high thinking Thinker

life is a bloom into perfection

petals unfolding to reveal the Pure consciousness

that emanates light and love which animates all this life

one is not a human forever for it's not the last level in life

So true RedeZra
God never sees imperfection as moment by moment and there only is this eternal moment, He is involved in the creation.
Take painting a picture.
At one moment it is the perfect blank canvas then the first perfect brush stroke, eve if it is unfinished in our eyes it is the perfect unfinished painting.
We are perfect at all times and yet the paradox is that we are unfolding as you say RedeZra.
Dear thinker I think you are thinking too much Lol
Karma is timeless in that it is not limited by time, this life time next life time.
Each action affects our spiritual status -- vibration and that frequecy determines where we go on the death of the body, that may be higher celestial realms so we dont reincarnate here, it may be the hell of the lower astral, in which case we can get another chance or not as the case might be all karma.
Karma as expressed by action is the totality of everything that has happened since time (illusory) began, so you are affected not only by your own personal karma but there is group karma in just being born human. Then there is Karma of the totality, we are affected by what happens on the other side of the cosmos. Its all very complex best just to love God and at least be kind to all life.
Chris

Thinker

24th July 2010, 15:22

greybeard,

Have you ever considered what a superstition is before it becomes a superstition?

I looked up "timeless" and your definition is correct: infinity time (not what I meant)
I also looked up "less" and discovered it means: reduce or minimize (what I intended)

Interesting paradox when you put "time" in front of "less" you get more.

But since I was referring to "no time" the absence of time as the spiritual teachers speak of, Can we get our minds around that concept?

If you define Karma as being carried from lifetime to lifetime who invented this boogie man "Karma" you are speaking of? Where is the evidence that Karma is carried from lifetime to lifetime?

Do we believe the things we believe because they are true or because we were thought to believe them by our parents who needed some degree of control over an immature human conciseness?

Don’t forget to answer my first question, it’s very important.

end

greybeard

24th July 2010, 16:03

hi Thinker. I go by essence rather that detail.
I can go up and down levels and be where a person is most times.
Jesus is reported to have said " Even my wisest disciples will enter by faith alone.

Now at a high level Ramana said. The world you are trying to save doest even exist.
There is no creation and no dissolution.
Eckhart Tolle said. There was never anyone there to hurt you.
There is no enemy.
There is only the thought of God.
We are but a thought in the mind of God
That might all be true but its not helpful to those struggling in this world.

So at a one level karma is very real and it helps to prevent people from harming others through fear of retribution.
At a higher level the thought harming others or punishing them is ludicrous.
Its all energy, all various vibrations, what is relevant to one level is not to another my friend.

Yes I investigated superstition some time ago. It has no basis in reality, but if you believe in it its very powerful.
A self fulfilling prophesy.

Karma is a mind invention.
Past life probably the same.

I try to enjoy the cosmic dance as best I can
We are consciousness at play.

Thinking will take one so far regarding the evolution of self back to Self, then it becomes a obstacle.
Love of God brings one to the discovery of the Presence within, which we all are, mind will not achieve that.

Regards chris.

Thinker

24th July 2010, 17:16

this is high thinking Thinker

I assume "high thinking" is some type of insult but I don't comprehend religion speak and don't comprehend your meaning.

If you see me as a blasphemer and put me in a box labeled blasphemer without comprehending what I’m saying how can you be sure you know me, and how can you learn when everything that challenges your beliefs is reactively discarded as blasphemy.

I hope you realize Jesus was rejected by the Pharisees for his blasphemies. How could they comprehend his meaning when they closed their mind to what he was saying?

Blasphemy is not bad or evil, it is NEW and sleeping people hate new things because they want to go back to sleep.

My apologies if I have failed to comprehend your meaning.

end

Thinker

24th July 2010, 17:44

chris,

I thank you for dancing with me, I like to dance too. Let us keep dancing and see what immerges...

Yes I investigated superstition some time ago. It has no basis in reality, but if you believe in it its very powerful.

Not the answer I was looking for; before a superstition becomes a superstition it is the truth.

So at a one level karma is very real and it helps to prevent people from harming others through fear of retribution.
At a higher level the thought harming others or punishing them is ludicrous.
Its all energy, all various vibrations, what is relevant to one level is not to another my friend.

Precisely, let us have some conversations at various levels and allow others to listen. In the process we may bring some of them along to discover other levels. Perhaps we ourselves will discover levels we were unaware of.

end

greybeard

24th July 2010, 18:05

Yes some superstitions are founded on truth but then distorted.
It is all down to context.
Im open minded.
Regards Chris

Thinker

24th July 2010, 18:52

Yes some superstitions are founded on truth but then distorted.
It is all down to context.
Im open minded.
Regards Chris

chris,

I’m still not getting my idea across.

I’m not saying some superstitions are or were true.
I’m saying all superstitions are false, before and after they are exposed as false, but before they are exposed as false they are believed true.

What is a superstition BEFORE it is a superstition? The truth.

Anything we hold as true may merely be an unexposed superstition.

This is key to transcending Ego, because the ego is attached to beliefs; by considering the possibility our beliefs are false we break the grip of the ego.

end

greybeard

24th July 2010, 19:04

Thinker
Bear i mind I said they, superstitions have no foundation in reality.
A story. A wife allways cut 6inches of the roast before putting it in the oven. Husband said why. Wife said Gran always did that.
They asked Gran.
The answer Your oven is larger than mine I had to cut it to get it to fit.
So things get distorted.
As long as you get you thats all that matters thinker.
But I now get the subtly of the truth of superstition as you portrayed.
Regards Chris

Thinker

24th July 2010, 20:41

As long as you get you thats all that matters thinker.

chris,

I’m sorry to say I’m having trouble seeing your open mindedness and grace.

I apologize for doing violence to you and your ego. As I said earlier I have only just accepted the concept that challenging others beliefs is a violent act.

“Plunge into the heat of battle and keep your heart at the lotus feet of the Lord,” - Bhagavad-Gita

end

greybeard

24th July 2010, 20:53

I will re phrase that.
As long as you get the you which is really You, thats all that matters.
I dont see that challenging others belief is violent, its tough love.
Thats why the heart is at the lotus feet. in my opinion.
I don't claim to be right as Ive said many times here, I'm just sharing my understanding of the moment.
I put my head on the pillow sober and thats a victory but because I surrendered to God it is no longer a battle.
Regards Chris

RedeZra

25th July 2010, 01:04

I assume "high thinking" is some type of insult..

it's not an insult at all bro but a compliment

since you seem to understand

that becoming a human being is not the last level of life

imagine the catastrophe if there were nothing higher than humans

but then again we would not exist at all hehe

---

believes are mental exercises whereas knowing is in the experience

humans base most of their believes on hearsay - maybe it's true and maybe it's not

so we should investigate the source of a belief and not believe hearsay blindly

we all have our own unique experiences which makes us more certain about some aspects of life

but even some of those experiences could be empty hallucinations

so we should not force our believes on others for it could very well be our own delusions

but there is nothing wrong with debating the various believes

at the end of the day - I believe what I must and if I express them I expect debates

greybeard

25th July 2010, 18:12

it's not an insult at all bro but a compliment

since you seem to understand

that becoming a human being is not the last level of life

imagine the catastrophe if there were nothing higher than humans

but then again we would not exist at all hehe

---

believes are mental exercises whereas knowing is in the experience

humans base most of their believes on hearsay - maybe it's true and maybe it's not

so we should investigate the source of a belief and not believe hearsay blindly

we all have our own unique experiences which makes us more certain about some aspects of life

but even some of those experiences could be empty hallucinations

so we should not force our believes on others for it could very well be our own delusions

but there is nothing wrong with debating the various believes

at the end of the day - I believe what I must and if I express them I expect debates

I agree whole heartedly RedeZra.
One of the biggest steps to freedom from mind is the realization -- I dont have to be right-- I can only express a view point.
If others do see my viewpoint then thats ok.
Its no big deal.
Ultimately my view point is of no real consequence as its based on the fallacy that there is a me to be right or wrong.
The I of Self is beyond the illusion of me.
However till ignorance is removed its good to be of mind and heart.
Debating just passes time with friends till that moment occurs.
Chris
Namaste

RedeZra

25th July 2010, 20:30

Ultimately my view point is of no real consequence as its based on the fallacy that there is a me to be right or wrong.
The I of Self is beyond the illusion of me.

maybe one out of a million can agree with such a profound statement Chris

that there is no me no you and no us - that only Infinite Consciousness Is

if only God Is then I don't exist

so some powerful mind or maya has been tricking me into believing that I Am one of many

I need to wake up - but it's so beautiful here hehe

let me dream some more lol

greybeard

25th July 2010, 20:36

And I thought you were one in a million RedeZra.
Dream on my friend,
Chris

RedeZra

25th July 2010, 21:39

And I thought you were one in a million RedeZra.

I am

but we are such a minority so we speak above the heads of millions

engaged in an exciting dream of individual existence

but one by one we wake up

greybeard

25th July 2010, 21:49

I am

but we are such a minority so we speak above the heads of millions

engaged in an exiting dream of individual existence

but one by one we wake up

Yes agreed RedeZra.
I knew you knew what you knew smiling.
It is unfortunate that people have difficulty in seeing the simplicity of it and tend to look upon it as mumbo jumbo.
As said the it cant be grasped by the mind, which is why those who are in no mind state say it cant be spoken of.
The moment an attempt is made to speak of experimental Truth it becomes a concept and of course people want to debate that which cant be spoken of. Lol

Love to you my friend
Chris

RedeZra

25th July 2010, 22:13

I knew you knew what you knew smiling.

It is unfortunate that people have difficulty in seeing the simplicity of it and tend to look upon it as mumbo jumbo.

hehe non-duality forever!!

the dream of individuality is not so easy to snap out of

especially if one doesn't know it's a dream or just don't wanna wake up lol

there are ways to wake as there are ways to fall into coma

this is the important crossroad

wanting to wake or keep on dreaming

love and light Chris

Beren

26th July 2010, 09:13

greybeard

26th July 2010, 10:11

I feel I am in that very situation like when you are starting to wake up in the morning and for about 10 to 30 minutes you are awake but still not your own, still kinda sleepy and almost like drunk... :-)...

Yes Beren
I am fully alert yet when walking its like I have had a few drinks.
Walking in a straight line requires concentration.
I got every test under the sun done by Dr's I very fit for my advancing years, so its nothing to do with health.
While sharp of mind I feel disconnected from the world, its actually quite pleasant.
However I wish either the world would change or I was home.
if I woke up dead tomorrow that would be fine.
I have been aware and awake so long im getting tired.
Love Chris

truthseekerdan

27th July 2010, 06:12

if I woke up dead tomorrow that would be fine.
I have been aware and awake so long im getting tired.
Love Chris

Don't think negative Chris, you still have a mission to fulfill... ;)

Love to you my friend,

Dan

blue777

27th July 2010, 07:06

Yes Beren
I am fully alert yet when walking its like I have had a few drinks.
Walking in a straight line requires concentration.
I got every test under the sun done by Dr's I very fit for my advancing years, so its nothing to do with health.
While sharp of mind I feel disconnected from the world, its actually quite pleasant.
However I wish either the world would change or I was home.
if I woke up dead tomorrow that would be fine.
I have been aware and awake so long im getting tired.
Love Chris

Hello Chris,
You are doing a great job on the forum ...keep it up
love and light
blue

Anchor

27th July 2010, 07:34

Walking in a straight line requires concentration.
I got every test under the sun done by Dr's I very fit for my advancing years, so its nothing to do with health.

I dont want to sidetrack this thread but it seems that healing (processing of catalyst, learning, acceptance, healing) is required. The kind doctors don't always do so well...

greybeard

27th July 2010, 09:36

I dont want to sidetrack this thread but it seems that healing (processing of catalyst, learning, acceptance, healing) is required. The kind doctors don't always do so well...
Hi John
You are welcome to side track this thread anytime ad your thoughts are taken on board.
Blue777 Thank you for your kind words.
I just share to the best of my ability.
Dan Im ok really.
Humor is intact.
I got a model T Ford of a body an updated version would be welcome.
There is no fear of death now thank to many events and the teachings of enlightened sages.
it saddens me that people have little understanding of the various teachings since Mystics first spoke of their subjective experience of the state of enlightenment.
They all say the same thing.
Now it is expressed in modern language by those in that state currently.

A "person" in this era who alludes to the fact that they are God is much misunderstood-- thats our natural state before fallen consciousness which we are returning to hopefully en mass.

Sai Baba was asked "Are you God" his answer "Yes but so are you, the only difference is that I know that and you don't----yet"

the Indian culture accepts statements such as that because there is a long tradition of "God men", Its called "God realization" Simply put, it is the realization of the presence of God within. The "In-dweller" If that presence wasn't within, you would not be alive in the body.
The me is a illusion created by Maya -- through the ego.
It was meant to be.
It is now a time of awakening to our true state,
People can easily believe in the Mystics of the past Krishna, The Buddha, Christ, Ramana yet have the greatest difficulty in believing in the Mystics of our time.
There have always been Mystics and there are here now.
Eckhart Tolle and Dr Hawkins to name but two and I am sure there are many others.
They all point to the the Truth which is ever new---- the Eternal Now-- the presence of God within all.

Thanks again for the encouragement which is deeply appreciated.

Chris
Namaste

We are all Mystics in waiting.

kriya

27th July 2010, 09:53

It is now a time of awakening to our true state,
People can easily believe in the Mystics of the past Krishna, The Buddha, Christ, Ramana yet have the greatest difficulty in believing in the Mystics of our time.
There have always been Mystics and there are here now.
Eckhart Tolle and Dr Hawkins to name but two and I am sure there are many others.
They all point to the the Truth which is ever new---- the Eternal Now-- the presence of God within all
We are all Mystics in waiting.

Absolutely my friend, very well put.

777 posts ~ very mystical!

Also the feeling of being drunk has been described by others as being a part of the God or cosmic consciousness experience.

You very well may be enlightened already!

Love,

Kriya

greybeard

27th July 2010, 10:04

Absolutely my friend, very well put.

777 posts ~ very mystical!

Also the feeling of being drunk has been described by others as being a part of the God or cosmic consciousness experience.

You very well may be enlightened already!

Love,

Kriya

I wish Kriya!!!!
Have had glimpses but as Eckhart says "The enlightenment experience tends to come and go"
True enlightenment is a permanent state rather than a transient experience but its an encouragement to persevere with the letting go of obstacles to enlightenment.
The peeling of the onion as David Icke said on the video with Messer.
I have never been into the teachings of Icke but in that video he really hits the nail on the head.
The mind will takes us anywhere we believe is true even after death of the body.
We are waves of the ocean and to the Ocean we return when this play of consciousness comes to a end, only eternal timeless awareness remains,
Love Chris

Anchor

27th July 2010, 10:07

You are welcome to side track this thread anytime ad your thoughts are taken on board.

I am told, that when things go wrong with your body, there is very often a very good reason and a lesson to be learned. To keep this vaguely on topic, it may well be something the ego doesnt want admitted!

Among the sources of the catalyst are pre-incarnation programming; or a response to something you have done or are doing that is being flagged by the universe (in the form of your guides/higher-self) for attention.

In your case you have broadly described this as something akin to a balance problem. In thinking about this, I will tell you I have a vision of someone who is unaccustomed to tightrope walking attempting to cross a high-wire ; they know they are being watched and do not want to fall because they feel that this would be somewhat embarrassing. Fear of physical harm is not a factor here (there is a safety net) and that has been dealt with, perhaps a latent fear of ego-bruising?

So - a tightrope walker has an easier job when they remember to pick up their pole and walk with that. The pole acts to lower the center of gravity and stabilize any harsh wobbles.

Anyway these are wild stabs in the dark of random thoughts. I hope some of them mean something - if they don't, don't suppose it matters, I had some fun writing the post.

John..

greybeard

27th July 2010, 10:14

Thanks John.
The ego would like to think it is a spiritual thing and it may be
Its not a dizzy feeling really I cant describe adequately.
Others seem to be describing similar on Iluminates thread wanderers volunteers walkins etc though I am wary of labels as the ego loves that.
Regards and thanks again Chris

truthseekerdan

2nd August 2010, 06:03

"The Ego constantly strives to be always right in everything, always superior over others, never wrong about anything and never inferior to anyone, always seeking self-importance and power and often control over others, at any cost, regardless of who is hurt.

The Ego is not something that can be destroyed or "transcended" because it is a vital aspect of who we are. The ultimate objective therefore is not to attempt to destroy the Ego, but rather to subjugate the Ego, thereby bringing it under complete control in order to fulfil its real purpose.

The Ego revels in making comparisons, particularly with other people. Comparisons are usually fine for the purposes of making a considered choice, but not when they are allowed to include judgments about other people and everything else. The Ego will for example urge you to take up a sport, hobby or other skill simply as a means of feeling superior to others.

The Ego does, therefore, need to justifiably make comparisons as a function of living in the material world. For example, when walking around a supermarket, comparisons need to be made between the quality and prices of items to be purchased. This sort of comparison serves a purpose and is applied for positive reasons. In this example the reason would not be positive if the shopper was making comparisons simply because they knew it would be better than the equivalent item owned by a family member, friend, or very often a neighbor who the Ego of the person wanted to impress.

The Ego often exerts a particularly strong influence in forming personal relationships. Everyone should be attracted to a partner for genuine qualities and virtues and in particular because they are well-suited to each other. Many people will however be attracted to a partner for much more superficial and Egotistical reasons, in order to satisfy the demands of their own Ego. For example, they may perceive a potential partner to appear glamorous, attractive or wealthy, and otherwise more desirable in the eyes of others. In these cases, the Ego is in full control over something fundamentally important. This is a major reason, of course, why so many marriages fail.

The Ego has delusions of grandeur and likes nothing more than to be noticed, flattered and admired, as well as to experience power and control over others. In reality, nothing ever makes anyone better or superior to anyone else. Every single person, without exception, irrespective of how they are perceived, is a completely equal aspect of God, made in the true Spiritual image of God. If we judge others, we equally judge ourselves. Acceptance is a most important aspect of life."

Love and light,

Dan

greybeard

2nd August 2010, 11:33

grace

2nd August 2010, 14:18

a useful tool: improvised singing.
the ego is never in the exact here and now but the real I always is. a useful tool is to create a song wherever you go, in your head or out loud, and focus intently on observing the exact situation around you in the exact here and now and on creating that song in the exact now. i've found that it has to be improvised and not a song sung from memory, just a simple humming tune is all. it helps you sink back into the role of the observer. when it is just you, the song and the immediate surrounding, the next step is to let go of the song.

greybeard

3rd August 2010, 10:00

Thoughts for today

Ramesh Balsakar said
"Events happen deeds are done but there is no individual doer there of"

He also said that the biggest block to spiritual progress is the thought that I am the doer.

Eckhart Tolle said.
"There are no accidents the whole Universe brings things about"

We are in Unity consciousness, duality is an illusion of egoic mind.

It takes time to accept these statements but I believe them to be true.

Regards Chris

truthseekerdan

6th August 2010, 06:21

“Ego is no more than this: identification with form, which primarily means thought
forms. If evil has any reality--and it has a relative, not an absolute, reality--this is also its
definition: complete identification with form--physical forms, thought forms, emotional
forms. This results in a total unawareness of my connectedness with the whole, my
intrinsic oneness with the Source. This forgetfulness is original sin, suffering, delusion.
When this delusion of utter separateness underlies and governs what I think, say, and do,
what kind of world do I create? To find the answer to this, observe how humans relate to
each other, read a history book, or watch the news on television tonight.”

~ Eckhart Tolle

truthseekerdan

11th August 2010, 06:08

The ego's needs are endless. It feels vulnerable and threatened and so lives in a state
of fear and want. Once you know how the basic dysfunction operates, there is no
need to explore all its countless manifestations, no need to make it into a complex
personal problem. The ego, of course, loves that. It is always seeking for something
to attach itself to in order to uphold and strengthen its illusory sense of self, and it
will readily attach itself to your problems. This is why, for so many people, a large
part of their sense of self is intimately connected with their problems. Once this has
happened, the last thing they want is tobecome free of them; that would mean loss of
self. There can be a great deal of unconscious ego investment in pain and suffering.
So once you recognize the root of unconsciousness as identification with the mind,
which of course includes the emotions, you step out of it. You become present. When
you are present, you can allow the mind to be as it is without getting entangled in it.
The mind in itself is not dysfunctional. It is a wonderful tool. Dysfunction sets in
when you seek your self in it and mistake it for who you are. It then becomes the
egoic mind and takes over your whole life.

The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle

greybeard

11th August 2010, 16:32

The ego loves to complicate things anything the mind can grab on to.
Search ye first the Kingdom of God (Presence within)
Need to meditate to do that.
Keep that as simple as possible.
"Be still and know that I am God"

The PTB love to distract you, they fear that rising consciousness will spell their demise or power to control.
They are right

Its so easy to get pulled into interesting things, I do too.
Changing time lines, pole shifts, strange weather paterns, climate change, earthquakes, oil spills, you name it.
Ultimately they are distractions.

If we want a new world we wont discover it through more information, or awakening to what the powers that be are up to, that has its place but its relatively minor..

This is vital.
Discovery of the Presence within will bring about a New World, we have to be the change we want to see no one else can do that.
All theories concepts, belief systems have to be surrendered in order to transcend the ego.
It is not possible to have a new world when the ego drags ones mind here there and everywhere looking for what??
That which can only be found within, a peace beyond comprehension.
The degree of spiritual evolution is measurable by the stillness of the mind.
The still mind does not promote any kind of negativity but is a pure channel for Higher self to create all that is wholesome and good.
In other words to create a New World
Chris
Namaste

Kulapops

11th August 2010, 16:48

If we want a new world we wont discover it through more information, or awakening to what the powers that be are up to, that has its place but its relatively minor..

Couldn't agree more, Chris...

I wonder though if it's a two part plan...?

1) Find the present... be here now

2) Decide what to do with that all-powerful moment

ok, 3) When you've all 'found' yourselves...I recommend toddling over to Kula's pledge thread, where there are a wealth of opportunities awaiting the fully conscious being looking to use the moment fully...

;0)

Love you Chris.. !

K

greybeard

13th August 2010, 06:11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CHKn6wYoE

Unconditional love
Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45LuPQUUEAI

Chris

RedeZra

13th August 2010, 07:27

as water is to the sea so is Love to me

as wind is to the air so is Truth to me

as green is to the grass so is Righteousness to me

I like what Hawkins says in this clip

ID47POrXw_8

we seek and search for love and truth

so that Love and Truth shall seek and speak through us

the language of the Heart

greybeard

15th August 2010, 20:15

WRITTEN BY A 15 Year Old SCHOOL KID IN ARIZONA :

New Pledge of Allegiance

(TOTALLY AWESOME)!

Since the Pledge of Allegiance

and The Lord's Prayer

are not allowed in most

public schools anymore,

because the word 'God' is mentioned.....

a kid in Arizona wrote the attached

NEW School prayer:

Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene..

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all..

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks...

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong...

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles..

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Amen

Jesus said, 'If you are ashamed of me, I will be ashamed
of you before my Father.'

RedeZra

16th August 2010, 15:58

Jesus said, 'If you are ashamed of me, I will be ashamed
of you before my Father.'

that is one bright teen

the Night they came for Jesus

He prayed in the garden of Getsemane

and said 'if it's possible let this cup of crucifixion pass me'

for His heart was torn by the indifference He perceived in you and me

kriya

16th August 2010, 16:37

Wow, amazing!

And so true too.

Love,

Kriya

Celine

21st August 2010, 01:28

Such an amazing thread dear friends.

This thread is a great tool in the constant battle in keeping the ego healthy.

one thing i have learned of late...

Ego hates to be in the light.

truthseekerdan

21st August 2010, 01:56

Such an amazing thread dear friends.

This thread is a great tool in the constant battle in keeping the ego healthy.

one thing i have learned of late...

Ego hates to be in the light.

Thank you Celine, :) I agree with what you wrote.
Glad that it helped you also, as it helped me...;)

Love and blessings,

Dan

Celine

22nd August 2010, 13:00

As cute as this picture is... it has more to say then some might see...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4hk7b7Vc7SPMnyq3COvEybuqC1aNMSv739werQksX3hPuzfc&t=1&usg=__YXa_sHcEPu6whQioiu_MkH1Yxls=

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Thank you Celine, :) I agree with what you wrote.
Glad that it helped you also, as it helped me...;)

Love and blessings,

Dan

Thank you for your heartfelt words Dan heart..

be well,
love,
cleine

greybeard

22nd August 2010, 20:27

Lovely pic Celine
The narcissistic love affair with the "me" and my point of view.
We all talking to ourselves here on line -- well most of the time.
Think Kulapops would really appreciate the depth behind the simple picture.
Thanks Celine

truthseekerdan

3rd September 2010, 03:52

"If you are drawn to an enlightened teacher, it is because there is already enough
presence in you to recognize presence in another. There were many people who did
not recognize Jesus or the Buddha, as there are and always have been many people
who are drawn to false teachers. Egos are drawn to bigger egos. Darkness cannot rec-
ognize light. Only light can recognize light. So don't believe that the light is outside
you or that it can only come through one particular form. If only your master is an
incarnation of God, then who are you? Any kind of exclusivity is identification with
form, and identification with form means ego, no matter how well disguised.
Use the master's presence to reflect your own identity beyond name and form back to
you and to become more intensely present yourself. You will soon realize that there is
no "mine" or "yours" in presence. Presence is one.

Group work can also be helpful for intensifying the light of your presence. A group
of people coming together in a state of presence generates a collective energy field of
great intensity. It not only raises the degree of presence of each member of the group
but also helps to free the collective human consciousness from its current state
ofmind dominance. This will make the state of presence increasingly more accessible
to individuals. However, unless at least one member of the group is already firmly
established in it and thus can hold the energy frequency of that state, the egoic mind
can easily reassert itself and sabotage the group's endeavors. Although group work is
invaluable, it is not enough, and you must not come to depend on it. Nor must you
come to depend on a teacher or a master, except during the transitional period,
when you are learning the meaning and practice of presence."

Excerpt from: The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle (http://www.eckharttolle.com)

Carmody

10th September 2010, 16:54

This is from a thread called 2012 and dreams in the 2012 section of the forum. it is my reply to a dream interpretation issue. It is apparently quite valid in this thread as well, so I decided to post that reply here -as well:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When trying to interpret dreams, it is good to understand that the very idea of intellectualization, visualization, and formation of thoughts, period, pass through the baser parts of the mind and structure and are heavily influenced by it. What I mean is that to access the doorway we need to connect through the right brain as noted by the experiences of many and the effects of many a drug, with regard to all physical existence blending into one complex mandala. Which is a right brain reality aspect.

See the TED video with Jill Bolte Taylor: http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_...f_insight.html

Then, we try to categorize and objectify (left brain function) those experiences as we do with visuals, touch, etc..as very small and very young children, as we attempt to form understandings of basic sensory input. To a large degree, we are trying to do that with probability function in our 'dreams' and those attempts are colored by the very same models of objectification we have developed when reaching the so called adult status of the physical monkey we call 'human'.

Point being, that your interpretation of the visualizations seen through the doorway (see my bit on such in the cliff high artificial moon thread-a critical clue/piece is in there) of the mind's eye. One has to slowly but surely dismiss one's upbringing and core modeling system in order to clearly see the points that are placed in front of one, these potentials in probability. (see my post in the 'do evil spirits exist' thread).

What I'm saying is that your mind shaped those visualizations, in order to be able to make sense of it --via your hardwired framework that you built up in your physical mind since the point of birth. One finds that the cortex and thus the ego function -which is your original program that keeps the body safe and working like a continually running gyroscope (keep the body on an even keel) of stability (and difficult to change, especially if this is unrealized).....that 'ego' and associated earliest programming for interpretation of visuals and physical input, they create a framework for 'life in a human body'.

The ego straddles the hemispheres of the brain at the join point, the cortex, and this serves as the first balance point of human physical operation at the crux, or objective vs subjective life. In order to see what you visualized clearly, you must understand this interpretation of the ego construct and how it underlies the higher self or oversoul, intellect, what have you. How it can and does influence the formation of thought and visuals.

When you calm the ego down and slowly but surely silence it's inner voice and murmurings, then you can begin to see the potential futures presented to you with more clarity. What I mean is you have to calm the body's ego fears (etc) and then you can slowly but surely take hold of the controls of the physical function and see more clearly. And thus bring a more developed actualization of the higher self into this physicality. It is possible to think of the ego as a development of a reflection of the higher self's communications with the physical vehicle,and this reflection, the ego, is a purely physical construct that is specifically tied to and a creation of -and wholly influenced by- the baser instincts.

This does not at all mean that the dream you had is in any way invalid, just that the interpretations of the situation are highly personal due to the ego's influence. The ego, obviously, does not want to let go. After all it is the point at which the autonomous function of the body encounters the touch of the oversoul or higher self. Where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

You made choice to come here and 'occupy' a body. The body has an autonomous system. It has ego. It has learned through your higher soul's influence, to have a voice. Since it is designed to keep the physical body safe and functional, it's quite near impossible to shut it down, but it can be calmed. Calmed into sharing, and even -stepping aside. However, it is trapped with the body and you are not. it is hardwired to experience and deal with emotions to keep it alive, you are not. Even though it is the ego that allows you to hear and understand these words, right here.

The ego is critical function. You cannot expect that a developing soul, can come here, into this dimension, through the dimensional doorway of a human nervous system and DNA, to take something wholly unfamiliar...and simply drive it effectively, out of the blue.... Something must run the system while the oversoul grows into the situation/experience..and learns some lessons in this realm.

This is why calming the ego is the next step in development of the given human, and the current crux of the matter in overall human development at this particular stage in time and dimensions/possibilities/probabilities.

All this was written merely to help you potentially understand the basic reasons for the color/shape/feel of the 'dream'.

wynderer

10th September 2010, 21:12

ego just means 'I am' -- the individualized bit of consciousness each of us is -- it's a gift, isn't it? to be an individual? rather than part of a collective hive mind like the greys?

greybeard

11th September 2010, 10:31

Could I sugest that if one is new to the concept of transcending ego and the reasons for doing so, that a start is made at page one of this thread and worked through to current page.
if this is done, taking time to do so, then the ego will be at least tamed and peace will ensue.
Or your money back--- laughing.
Im not on line much at the moment so not posting regularly.
Please contribute to this thread if you feel the urge to do so.
Chris
Namaste.

wynderer

13th September 2010, 07:42

Hi friends
To put it into context.
There are two kinds of ego.
One as defined by the Medical/ Psychiatric profession.
is Healthy self esteem.
It is good to take pride in the way we do things.
When one is comfortable with oneself and what one does then fear decrease and it is easy to be in this world with all its trials and tribulations at that point there is an over lap into the second definition of ego, the spiritual one.

The ego in spiritual terms could be defined as "Edge God Out"
Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

There were some very good contributions to this thread on Avalon and I hope that the same will apply here.
Celine has said that the complete thread from Avalon will be reposted here but there are technical problems in doing this at the moment, hopefully these will be resolved.
Time being fresh insights are very welcome.
Chris
Namaste.

Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

hmmm... i don't recall Jesus saying this

greybeard

13th September 2010, 10:22

wynderer

13th September 2010, 11:50

Hi Wynderer
The word ego was not known at the time of Jesus in his culture.
However there were statements made by him such as "The Father and I are One"
The ego needs duality to survive every enlightened sage has experienced being One with God, non duality.
Christ consciousness and enlightenment are the same thing.
If we want to follow in the footsteps of Jesus then we need to "Be still and know that I am God".
In other words One with our Father.
God is in every atom in everything and therfore can found within.
Regards Chris

well, that's one way of looking at it -- tho in the future, for the sake of accuracy, you might not want to include Jesus in your list of ego-transcender teachers -- Jesus himself also never talked about Christ consciousnesses, or about enlightenment -- he focused more on the here & now, on this world & how we treat others -- & on keeping our minds on God -- but not JUST keeping our minds on God -- peace & justice activists can find a lot in Jesus' words to give encouragement

& just want to run this thought by you again -- you are already a Child of God & a Being of Light -- it's not hiding inside you -- & it's what is in the dimensions outside you that are preventing you from knowing this -- yes, anyone can make choices so that they start vibrating in tune w/the darkside dimensions -- but that's a veering off course

Celine

13th September 2010, 12:28

truthseekerdan

13th September 2010, 13:00

Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

hmmm... i don't recall Jesus saying this

Most likely that Jesus did say/mention that, although it was translated to not be easier understood by common folk... (i.e. 'sinful nature or flesh', etc).

P.S. Good to hear from you Chris. :happy:

greybeard

13th September 2010, 13:54

Dear Wynderer
Much is missunderstood about the state of enlightenment and Christ consciousess
To my understanding Christ consciousness means the same state of consciousness as Christ.
He was humility and Love egoless.. He said that we could do as much if not more than he did.
He did not set himself as being in any way above us. He too was tempted by the devil as we are.

The earliest spiritual teachings in the Vedas and Upaisheds said exactly the same things as Jesus taught thousands of years before Jesus was born.
The ones in the enlightened state can be very active in the world Mother Teresa but one example.
There is a long tradition of enlightenment in India it is also called God realisation, that is the realisation of the presence of God within.
Only the bird knows what flying is as a natural state. only those in the state of enlightenment truly know one ness with God, though we can get glimpses of that state.
Enlightenment is an egoless timeless state totally in the eternal moment.
Hence this thread. When ego is transcended our true Self shines forth.
Through the Grace of God I am sober one day at a time.
I could not do it with out the Love of God.
Regards Chris

Ps Dan today I will know if my partner Rosaline will be allowed a visa for re entry to the UK.
Thanks for your good wishes.

wynderer

13th September 2010, 14:35

Most likely that Jesus did say/mention that, although it was translated to not be easier understood by common folk... (i.e. 'sinful nature or flesh', etc).

P.S. Good to hear from you Chris. :happy:

Dan, you might want to read the Gospels before you mis-quote them

on other forums as well -- when it comes to folks discussing the Bible, i'm often reminded of Steve Martin's song, his take on the singer-songwriters, the part where he sings, 'Criticize things you don't know about' [strum strum of banjo]

[take heart -- another week at the most & i'll be gone from the forum]

truthseekerdan

13th September 2010, 19:05

Dan, you might want to read the Gospels before you mis-quote them

Dear wynderer, it's funny how you know 'facts' about other people before actually 'knowing them'. Thank you for your well intentions. :)
Besides knowing the Bible (Gospels) so well, are you by chance familiar with the Gospels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels) that are not included in the modern Bible also called The Apocrypha? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha)

Here is a quote (not mis-quote) from Romans 8 (King James ver.): (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208&version=KJV) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh (you can substitute for ego-mind), but after the Spirit." -- While you're at it, might want to read the whole chapter (good stuff). ;)

on other forums as well -- when it comes to folks discussing the Bible, i'm often reminded of Steve Martin's song, his take on the singer-songwriters, the part where he sings, 'Criticize things you don't know about' [strum strum of banjo]

You criticize (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:5-6&version=KJV) things? Got to be kidding, I accept constructive ones. :hug:

[take heart -- another week at the most & i'll be gone from the forum]

You'll be missed dearly, but all things happen for a reason. I'm sure you'll have more time to dwell into 'spiritual senses', that will benefit yours and our growth. :angel:

Love and blessings,

Dan

Loren

17th September 2010, 16:07

Thank you and very well said. The ego that we have developed to survive and function in the world must die to let the true self exist which will allow you to live in the moment,divine bliss and awareness. The message Christ , Buddha and so many others have been telling.Rebirth.As for me at my age it will take a miracle.Ha ha

kriya

17th September 2010, 16:26

Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

hmmm... i don't recall Jesus saying this

Hello love,

The whole of the beatitudes or sermon on the mount is about transcending the ego (which, if I'm correct you have posted here).

Love,

Kriya

truthseekerdan

21st September 2010, 15:33

Releasing the Human Ego

9CDcpZrBAOs

greybeard

23rd September 2010, 22:32

Marriage
Dear friends I am getting married on the 5th of November so may not post for a while.
To keep on the subject of the thread LOL
I have found that previous relationships have reduced the ego some what.
Eckhart Tolle has said
"Relationships are not there to make you happy at this time but to reduce your ego"
Past experience has shown this to be right in my case. Lol
It does my heart good to see others contributing regularly here in particular my good friends Dan and of course Kriya, RedeZra, Beren Frank, Morguana Celine, Kulapops.
With much love
Chris

Ross

23rd September 2010, 22:59

Congrats to you Chris,

May you both be blessed with much joy.

Regards

Ross

Fredkc

23rd September 2010, 23:35

Remember remember the 5th of November,
the powder, treason and plot.

http://fredsitelive.com/fun/rofl.gif

My god you sure know how to pick'em!

In all seriousness, Chris. my heartfelt congrats, and wishes for best of love and luck,
Fred

Beth

24th September 2010, 00:21

Congrats Chris................

NOW RUN!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

truthseekerdan

24th September 2010, 04:07

Great birthday present for you Chris, congratulations! :party:

Blessings from me to you two, :love: ~ Dan

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj64/christillustrations/hugs/hugl.gif

Mluck

28th September 2010, 20:12

Maybe it's just me but I see Ego all over this Forum and with Project Camelot in general. This is jusy my opinion and I am sure I will be attacked for it.

Celine

28th September 2010, 20:16

Sure you will be attacked?

hmm well...we Avalonians are humans..most of us anyways ;)

Humans have alot of ego..

But IMHO, here at PA we can have civil discussions , with opposing views on a variety of topics...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Marriage
Dear friends I am getting married on the 5th of November so may not post for a while.
To keep on the subject of the thread LOL
I have found that previous relationships have reduced the ego some what.
Eckhart Tolle has said
"Relationships are not there to make you happy at this time but to reduce your ego"
Past experience has shown this to be right in my case. Lol
It does my heart good to see others contributing regularly here in particular my good friends Dan and of course Kriya, RedeZra, Beren Frank, Morguana Celine, Kulapops.
With much love
Chris

Congratulations my friend!!

If you need any help with flowers just let me know ;)

Luke

28th September 2010, 20:48

That is the problem with Ego. It loves to be under attack. This it when it proves it's worthiness
"I get you out of this mess now listen to MEEEEEEE"
"You are special, this is why they hate you" .... and other crap

The "power" of differentiation.

Once you really see that you are immortal spirit, and all beings around you are too , from rock to sun, that all are facets of something bigger, that all borders are just illusions, that thou cannot be killed, devoured or else... then, and only then you will be able to start doing things right. I'm not there yet, know where the path leads but yet afraid to walk it.

And that chatty bugger ain't helping it :P
----
Know I'm not "the usual" here, but let me congratulate you, Chris, on this development :)

Mluck

28th September 2010, 21:02

I just think there is little respect for other opinions that differ from those of the general concenses. Sure we all have ego and it is up to us wheather or not we let are selves be consumed by it once you understand this you can see it as clear as day. I think far to many people let others ego and agenda think for them. It's like a bunch of rats fighting for the biggest peice of corn and then trying to hide it and only share it who those they choose.

Snowy Owl

28th September 2010, 22:39

The Ego Root, the Survivor in Space,
Have you seen those thorn Roots longing for Water
And in their quest unite, almost become one in Space
While, since the beginning the Teenagers Ego Roots
Is mainly a function in Time of the Gatherer, The Tree.

Ego is the first breath at Childbirth to get breathing
Ego tells the Generation of 'Right Now' that it is hungry or thursday

The the Ego Life encounter its surroundings and living beings
A dimension where all Egos have to strike a deal of Harmonious Behaviors
The Freedom of One's Ego stop where starts the Freedom Ego of Other

Since Darwin we realize that the sayings of the Great Consciousness Poet 'Lafontaine' that
The reason of the strongest is always the best.
La Raison du plus fort est toujours la meilleure.

... Adulhood

After some Ego Trip comes the time of Choice
But Choice of what you, the Conscious Being
Decide to do with your Ego, because you have realized you had one,
Will you trained yourself to become one of the strongest
Or will you trained yourself to become one of the Wisest

Das ist die Question mein Freund

© Copyright Michel Maheu alias Snowy Owl

Snowy Owl, Shnei Eule

truthseekerdan

30th September 2010, 02:38

The ultimate trick of egoic consciousness is to try to get beyond ego. Yet the more you try to get beyond it, the more you get caught up in it. In this enlightening satsang, Adyashanti reveals the real meaning of "allowing everything to be as it is." He shows how this teaching, when understood fully, offers a way to go beyond the egoic state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gftjbhpkJdo

Snowy Owl

30th September 2010, 03:14

@ truthseekerdan

Thank you for sharing this video. It is indeed part of St-Francis of Assisi Universal Intrument of Consciousness.

I am a Suly registered Franciscan Communication Agent for the Province of Québec that includes as far as Ontario, Detroit, Minnisota, and down the Missisipi, St-Louis, our Cajuns of Lousiana and of course our Louisiane and Nouvelle Orléans Cajun/Créole Métis Creative Spring Land. And of course in our Province we have, Maine, Vermont, Uppe rNew-York.See the Québec Province of Franciscain is huge and wide rich of History with a particularlity our Metissage, we First Nations, French and Africans never consider the woman of one of the other cultural group like inferiors Woman, so our blood got mixed, many of the Old New France Families are Métis. Whether we are proud of it we share a multi-cultural sensivity, reflections, Orientations.

This is a Collective Powerfull Path for all Métis, we are link by blood and influenced Culturally, Spiritually.

Joan Baez - The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnS9M03F-fA)

We have by Nature a cohesive and collective Predispositions. Yes Predisposition instead of Pre-emptiveness, our Egos are now Enshrined in our Universal Emphatic Consciousness.

Internet will be regionnalised very soon but the raising of our Collective Consciousness can not be separate to be reign, it is a personnal collective understanding, what the Wise Egyptians High Priest called the Intelligence of the Heart.

I am more Optimistic now than when I became Humanitarian at the end of the 70's.

I call it like the Rise of Universal Wisdom.

Snowy Owl

30th September 2010, 03:30

And there are some WonferFull Reasons to be Optimistic, all this Universal Cohesiveness is not only a kind of blue mine blood Métissage, no, it is at the same Time the True Seekers of Coherence that are here in the same 'Reality' perceived WorldWide and it is growing exponentially.

Either your a Disciple of Respect of Life who cares, help and save people, like Mary at Mary's Height in Virginia whom with her house and Women Friends impose a cease fire for few hours per day to General Grant and General Lee in order to reduce morbidity and mortality, and it worked they both agree Mary's intense request. (She always cared for soldiers of both armies).

... or you make the choice to become the strongest like Herculies and his sad Fate after his Choice.

truthseekerdan

8th October 2010, 20:48

Adyashanti The 'Absolute' Ego (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sqbSqtDsa4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sqbSqtDsa4

Snowy Owl

24th October 2010, 14:43

It is becoming obvious via collective and groups solidarity that Ego is being slowly transcend to a Sense of Belonging, one that cares and dares by solidarity for others. This is trancendation right before our eyes. The Me, Myself and I are slowly becoming personna non gratta.

timerty

22nd November 2010, 16:12

I'm surprised you guys don't know what the Ego is.

Ego is the exaggerated sense of self-importance. Egotistic people think they are more important than others from their perception of a hierarchy.

To resolve the ego, one has to realize that everyone is unique and special in their own ways. Each person plays their own part and complements the whole. There is no superior or inferior quality, but diversity.

RedeZra

28th November 2010, 10:58

right that is Big ego

but if All is One

then any distinction

is an experience of the ego

and not the unified field of consciousness

that doesn't mean that nothing is right or wrong

it's just that this unified field of consciousness has a standard

from where everything is measured

truthseekerdan

29th November 2010, 17:50

Just wanted to add (probably) my last thoughts on this subject. Everything else that you want to find on the EGO subject, one can find on this great thread. :nod:

You can not eliminate the Self or the "ego". I have tried it -- and failed miserably every time. :)

We are Individual for a Reason. Without our individuality there would be no point whatsoever making the Universe to start with.

Trying to suppress our individuality is a violent act against the Purpose of the Universe and as such it always results in experiencing misery.

The only way is to Educate the ego. Study it. Bring it up. Convince it. Teach it Love, and how to express it.

Examine your Self. You will find that Everything is there:

Lust and Love <--> Hate and Tolerance
Violence and Kindness <--> Arrogance and Respect

Animal instincts and Intellect

Joy and Misery <--> Envy and Admiration
Wisdom and Ignorance <--> Deceit and Sincerity
Selfishness and Generosity <--> Filth and Innocence
Pride and Modesty <--> Cruelty and Tenderness

It is all Within -- and more...

Everything Has to BE There at all times.

Otherwise how could you exercise your Freedom of Choice?

How else could you perceive things if you didn't have a chance to experience a perpetual contrast of the opposites?

Do you see the logic and the beauty of the Design?

Examine the Self
Study the Ego
Bring it up
Show it the beauty of your Intellect
Show it the Potential
Convince it to develop
Show it all the choices
Teach it to Choose consciously
Convince it that your choices make all the difference
Then teach it to Choose Love

This particular attitude, however, requires a phenomenal amount of self-discipline. No one else in the Universe can do it for you. YOU have to find all the motivation Within.

If you think that finding the motivation may be enough, think again. Finding the motivation Within is extremely difficult, but maintaining it every day is even harder.

There are so many confusing distractions, obstacles and excuses. There are so many choices -- and the easiest choice is always not to do anything about your conscious progress.

It is all about the Freedom of Choice...:love:

greybeard

4th December 2010, 14:46

Transcending the ego is simple but not easy.
First there is an awareness that one is the "Witness observer" in other words witnessing is happening all by itself, we do not choose to witness it comes with the package.
Then comes awareness that we are aware of witnessing and observing.
We are not the doer it is happening all by itself. (thats a paradox and one that needs to be deeply investigated)
Ultimately we are awareness.
That which looks through the eyes of the new born is the same as looks through the eyes at the last breath. Unchanged by all that is witnessed in a life time.
Our Higher Self is perfect and has no need to learn or change.
The lower self (the me) is learning and evolving to be what it is already
The Higher Self is guiding lower self to become aware of obstacles to knowing Truth and then helping in their removal.
Only by surrendering all judgmental thoughts and other egoic notions, asking for their removal, invoking the high spiritual energy of the Holy Spirit, will the ego be transcended.
The lower self has to become humble enough to ask for help and admit it just does not know , it is ignorant, lacking in knowledge.
The ego has to be transcended in order to realize Oneness with God.
The Indians call this God-realisation.
The enlightened are egoless and aware of the reality of the "One with out a second"

The most helpful information (for me) I have come across is contained in the book "Discovery of the Presence of God / Devotional Non Duality" because it comes from the "personal" experience of the author Dr David R Hawkins MD Ph.D
http://www.veritaspub.com/

Amazon have the book at reasonable prices but thats not the point.
If I had one book to recommend on spirituality it would be this one.
C

Fredkc

4th December 2010, 14:53

Chris!

Welcome back, ya old fart. (takes on to know one, says I)
Fred

Celine

4th December 2010, 14:55

*celine hugs chris* ..great to see you posting again :)

VajraYaya

4th December 2010, 17:57

greybeard

4th December 2010, 18:36

I saw this thread start some time ago and I am finally only now responding to it. Since it has grown to an astounding 41 pages I haven't time to read through the whole thing so please ignore me if what I say attempts to take you down a road you have already been down.

When you ask how to transcend the ego, you really have to ask... what is it that is wanting to transcend the ego ;-)

What you are alluding to is ultimate truth Vajra.

The thread is for all levels of consciousness all levels of spiritual vibration--- understanding.
One has to start some where to remove the illusion of ego as a separate self.
Ego is just the identification with the me story -- in reality all ego is but a thought, a miss understanding, it has no existence but in the mind.
The ego hears there is such a thing as enlightenment and wants that in order to be superior to lesser souls ---- thats a big laugh.
It gets busy reading spiritual books going to seminars not realizing it is bringing about its own demises. There is no one left to claim enlightenment, no me left at the end of the process.
When the the clouds of ignorance are removed the enlightened Self shines forth.
That requires work and devotion to Truth.
One can leap out of a cliff face shouting that we dont believe in gravity, saying so far so good but eventually we will hit the ground. Then what????
Similarly we can shout there is no ego but till it is seen for what it is, it is very powerful.
The enlightened are in a different state of consciousness and they can say there is no ego.
At my level I believe what the Mystics say but I am not in the state of dirct experience of Oneness though it is believed in and hoped for.
With me its work in progress.
Thanks for your contribution V which is greatly appreciated.
Chris

VajraYaya

5th December 2010, 08:14

The whole concept is a misunderstanding. To the extent that one sees the ego as something separate or that must be separate, one remains in hopeless duality - non-singular.

Like all other aspects of the manifest being the ego needs to be developed, nurtured and integrated. Like you develop in all your other aspects, physically, socially, intellectually, sexually, your ego needs to grow too. Encouraged to grow from identification with the small, limited self, or externals, to being able to embrace the entire Universe, as a perfect manifestation of infinite love.

It's been said that a narcissist is someone whose ego is not yet developed enough to embrace the entire Universe, so they try to become central to it instead… Wait…

Okay, I found it. This is the best piece I have ever seen written on the topic. I came across it years ago.

Ken Wilber's Monumentally, Gloriously Divinely Big Egos.

...The great yogis, saints and sages accomplished so much precisely because they were not timid little toadies but great big egos, plugged into the dynamic Ground and Goal of the Kosmos itself, plugged into their own higher Self, alive to the pure atman (the pure I-I) that is one with Brahman..

Put bluntly, the ego is not an obstruction to Spirit, but a radiant manifestation of Spirit. All Forms are not other than Emptiness, including the form of the ego. It is not necessary to get rid of the ego, but simply to live it with a certain exuberance....

Have a look

http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/books/ontast_mogobi.cfm/

witchy1

5th December 2010, 08:44

Hi Greybeard, I have a question

Then comes awareness that we are aware of witnessing and observing.

Why do I have this enourmous pull in my solar plexus region when I "try" to do this. I feel like something is wound up in there and there is no where for it to go.

That which looks through the eyes of the new born is the same as looks through the eyes at the last breath. Unchanged by all that is witnessed in a life time

It envokes the exact same emotion (as an observer) in both situations..........very moving and a very privilaged place to be

W

Zook

5th December 2010, 09:05

Hi all,

I've suffered from delusions of apparent infinite ego. I've suffered from delusions of apparent zero ego. I've been pained and pleasured by delusions of apparent infinite ego. I've been pained and pleasured by delusions of apparent zero ego. For me then, life has been a journey between the different states of ego, i.e. between the apparent endpoints of infinite ego and zero ego. Irregular oscillations informing the hybrid of body and mind, as it were, and neither purity alone.

Question begs, what is enlightenment? Is it the purity of mind (afflicted with the burden of body), e.g the reduction of ego? Or is it the purity of body (afflicted with the burden of mind), e.g. the expansion of ego? Or is it something else entirely, e.g. a perfect balance between mind and body?

I'm not sure it's possible to remove ego entirely or inflate ego absolutely whilst our soul is a hybrid of mind and body ... so my guess is enlightenment in the third density must retain ego but in a proper balance? That begs the question, what is proper balance if not the perfect balance of mind and body? Is enlightenment the perfect balance?

:typing:

greybeard

5th December 2010, 12:27

Hi all.
Only the ego can be hurt or experience rejection negativity etc.
It is the experiencer.
Awareness knows without being attached -- non-attachment.
Its like sitting at the cinema, we are fully aware enjoying the moment, frame by frame of the film.
Taming the ego is a very worthwhile endeavor but will not lead to enlightenment.
Enlightenment is a very different state.
Ramana Maharshi one of the best known of the Indian enlightened sages said
Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away.
Self enquiry is used to investigate the workings of the ego, then when the ego is discovered to be not what "I am"and in fact an illusion, then the ego is transcended and mind becomes silent and "The peace that passeth all understanding" prevails. Thinking is no longer required, awareness is all.
The fully evolved enlightened soul can say "I am the totality all of it" "I am form less and form and neither."
The enlightened ones do there best to speak of that which can not be spoken of only subjectively experienced as One with God.
The mind cant understand as it is beyond description..
Mind does not want to let go of the narcissus ego story, its very entertaining and a love affair with self.
Mind will put up quite a struggle this can be felt as a resistant feeling in the solar plexus not pleasant but it will go.
Hope this helps
Not saying I know but this is my understanding of the moment
Best advice find an enlightened teacher's book and study it thoroughly. Eckhart Tolle or Dr David Hawkins I would recommend.
Indian Sages Ramesh Balsekar, Ramana or Nasargadatta.
Chris

greybeard

5th December 2010, 12:55

Hi all.
Only the ego can be hurt or experience rejection negativity etc.
It is the experiencer.
Awareness knows without being attached -- non-attachment.
Its like sitting at the cinema, we are fully aware enjoying the moment, frame by frame of the film.
Taming the ego is a very worthwhile endeavor but will not lead to enlightenment.
Enlightenment is a very different state.
Ramana Maharshi one of the best known of the Indian enlightened sages said
Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away.
Self enquiry is used to investigate the workings of the ego, then when the ego is discovered to be not what "I am"and in fact an illusion, then the ego is transcended and mind becomes silent and "The peace that passeth all understanding" prevails. Thinking is no longer required, awareness is all.
The fully evolved enlightened soul can say "I am the totality all of it" "I am form less and form and neither."
The enlightened ones do their best to speak of that which can not be spoken of as it can only be subjectively experienced and known as One with God.

The mind is not capable of understand as it is beyond description.
The enlightened state is omnipresent, omnipotent, timeless, ego-less, unconditional love.

Mind does not want to let go of the narcissus ego story, its very entertaining and a love affair with self.
Mind will put up quite a struggle this can be felt as a resistant feeling in the solar plexus not pleasant but it will go.
Hope this helps
Not saying I know but this is my understanding of the moment
Best advice find an enlightened teacher's book and study it thoroughly. Eckhart Tolle or Dr David Hawkins I would recommend.
Indian Sages Ramesh Balsekar, Ramana or Nasargadatta.
Chris

Victoria Tintagel

5th December 2010, 13:21

I've suffered from delusions of apparent infinite ego. I've suffered from delusions of apparent zero ego. I've been pained and pleasured by delusions of apparent infinite ego. I've been pained and pleasured by delusions of apparent zero ego. For me then, life has been a journey between the different states of ego, i.e. between the apparent endpoints of infinite ego and zero ego. Irregular oscillations informing the hybrid of body and mind, as it were, and neither purity alone.

Hey Zookumar, thanks for your honest and clear words here :) To me, there's a pinch of provocation always, in your posts, I like that...although I am afraid of being hurt by it, to be honest. I think purity is present as soon as judgement stops and the truth of whichever situation is acknowledged. I don't think purity is a thing, but an experience. It doesn't depend on space or time, what do you think, Zookumar?

I'm not sure it's possible to remove ego entirely or inflate ego absolutely whilst our soul is a hybrid of mind and body ... so my guess is enlightenment in the third density must retain ego but in a proper balance? That begs the question, what is proper balance if not the perfect balance of mind and body? Is enlightenment the perfect balance?

I think we are ordained to live with an ego, in the present conditions on Earth. The solution to live with an ego, in peace, is the consciousness of it, the discernment of your ego and your soul, by being a witness to both, without judging. No exclusion of feelings or emotions, but being a witness to them, being able to make a conscious choice, so you may master them. There's no force to yield, it's a presence in silence. An awareness in the center of yourself, the stillness, the void. Which is in the heart, for me. Thanks all, for your inspirational posts in this interesting thread :) Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

DawgBone

5th December 2010, 14:15

I don't like the term 'ego'. Freud was interesting, but in my opinion wrong, about almost everything. Let's talk about personalities. If reality is God experiencing himself, separate personalities are an essential part of the game. The separateness is what supports experience. God likes personalities.

We require balance. We need strong personalities to function in this world, but we also need empathy, sensitivity and perception. Yin requires Yang. Yang requires Yin.

Take our fellow Avaloneans for example. Many wonderful, varied and distinct personalities. I think that is a plus! It helps me see the world through different eyes. It expands my world.

My personal feeling about 'enlightenment' is that it is primarily physical. Enlightenment is the activation of the chakra system, nothing more, nothing less. Once these subtle organs are fully active the world changes. Once you are enlightened, the 'ego' is naturally transformed.

You don't become enlightened by eliminating ego; you become enlightened and that transforms the ego.

greybeard

5th December 2010, 15:30

With respect to recent contributions, mine included.
Various opinions are being offered, these are points of views therefore flawed as they are not coming from an enlightened state.
An opinion is not ultimate truth as expressed by enlightened ones since time began.
Every enlightened being has stated the same truth, Its an ego less condition.
Yes its true up till now the ego has been necessary but now there is a real opportunity for the human race to move forward in unity consciouses, Christ Consciousness enlightened state, call it what you will.
Enlightened means freedom from ignorance.
Until we attain that state we will face virtually endless reincarnation and just hit the spiritual ceiling that this earth and the human condition has put upon us up till now..
When we graduate from this university as enlightened beings we have celestial realms to evolve even further in on our journey home.
From a higher perspective enlightenment is kindergarten. Eckhart Tolle said that.
Hope this helps
C

NancyV

5th December 2010, 19:26

VajraYaya, yours is a great description of what I have found to be the truth of the ego. I speak from many years of spiritual practices, most often ones which promoted overcoming or transcending the ego. I do agree that there is a misunderstanding about this and that we most likely are talking about the same thing as those who feel transcending the ego is desirable or necessary for enlightenment.

What I have experienced directly is that when I leave my body and begin merging with consciousnesses on other planes, I become more of ME and in essence my ego becomes more expanded. This has happened to me on every dimension up to and including merging with the Source. I call that becoming the Really Really Big One and Only EGO. (not quite as mellifluously elegant as Ken Wilber's "Monumentally, Gloriously Divinely Big Egos")

There was a point when I had to learn the art of surrender where it seemed like my ego died totally, but that only lasted a tiny amount of time (although there is no time as we know it) and I then awakened to my hugely expanded ego which could embrace, love and merge with all that is. Since that time I have not had to surrender again as once that lesson was incorporated into my being I guess it sticks! LOL

I do not see a reason for me to attempt to be ego-less here on the earth plane as that in itself is an egotistical pursuit and also because I LOVE my ego!! Many of the yogis and masters who attain some sort of transcendence here become wandering hermits or live in an ashram depending on others to tend to their bodily needs, unless they have reached a state where they need no food or water and their body needs little attention. I ask myself why they are here then? Of course that is their path/game and not mine, at least not this time. As far as reincarnation goes I do not think it is either negative or positive, it just is, IF you choose to reincarnate here or elsewhere. But it is a choice.

I see no paradox in having a necessary ego to deal with the body and brain games here and yet being part of the "Monumentally, Gloriously Divine Big Ego" at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. I see self love as a prerequisite for being able to truly love all that is and love IS all there is.

Nancy :)
ps: that doesn't mean I can't be nasty and bitchy, and I love to cuss!!

The whole concept is a misunderstanding. To the extent that one sees the ego as something separate or that must be separate, one remains in hopeless duality - non-singular.

Like all other aspects of the manifest being the ego needs to be developed, nurtured and integrated. Like you develop in all your other aspects, physically, socially, intellectually, sexually, your ego needs to grow too. Encouraged to grow from identification with the small, limited self, or externals, to being able to embrace the entire Universe, as a perfect manifestation of infinite love.

It's been said that a narcissist is someone whose ego is not yet developed enough to embrace the entire Universe, so they try to become central to it instead… Wait…

Okay, I found it. This is the best piece I have ever seen written on the topic. I came across it years ago.

Ken Wilber's Monumentally, Gloriously Divinely Big Egos.

...The great yogis, saints and sages accomplished so much precisely because they were not timid little toadies but great big egos, plugged into the dynamic Ground and Goal of the Kosmos itself, plugged into their own higher Self, alive to the pure atman (the pure I-I) that is one with Brahman..

Put bluntly, the ego is not an obstruction to Spirit, but a radiant manifestation of Spirit. All Forms are not other than Emptiness, including the form of the ego. It is not necessary to get rid of the ego, but simply to live it with a certain exuberance....

Put bluntly, the ego is not an obstruction to Spirit, but a radiant manifestation of Spirit. All Forms are not other than Emptiness, including the form of the ego. It is not necessary to get rid of the ego, but simply to live it with a certain exuberance....

greybeard

5th December 2010, 20:03

Dear Nancy
very happy for you.
The only point I would quibble about is definition of ego.
When ego is transcended to a degree then Higher self will have the experiences or similar to the ones that you have expeienced.
There are degrees of enlightenment as described by Dr David Hawkins but there is a final door and on walking through that door the last remnant of the ego dies and only God is left.

In general
Bear in mind that ego is a separation device. It separates one from the true nature of Self.
We choose God/love or we choose ego/fear its simple.
As the ego is transcended we become progressively free of fear and negativity, we become more capable of forgiving and unconditional love.
Keep also in mind that the ego is selfish, grasping, greedy, needing to be right, attention seeking and desiring of specialness.
Every war every conflict small or large is driven by the ego.
So is it important to transcend it?
I believe so.
chris

DawgBone

5th December 2010, 20:40

Keep also in mind that the ego is selfish, grasping, greedy, needing to be right, attention seeking and desiring of specialness.
Every war every conflict small or large is driven by the ego.
So is it important to transcend it?
I believe so.

I think of my ego as being something like a pet. In need of discipline, certainly.

Like a Beagle pretending to be a WWI flying ace. Humorous, often misguided, but definitely not evil, and in this dimension at least, necessary.

Greybeard, do you really think that people like Hawkins and Tolle and Ramana are totally without ego? I don't think so.

greybeard

5th December 2010, 21:03

I think of my ego as being something like a pet. In need of discipline, certainly.

Like a Beagle pretending to be a WWI flying ace. Humorous, often misguided, but definitely not evil, and in this dimension at least, necessary.

Greybeard, do you really think that people like Hawkins and Tolle and Ramana are totally without ego? I don't think so.

Hi DawgBone
Yes the ego is not an enemy, love it, humor it, treat as a pet that follows you around. but realize that it is like your shadow and just as unnecessary, it is not what you are. You existed before all universes and will exist after all universes dissolve, you are timeless you are eternal
The ego is none of these things. I repeat it is not you.
Ramana is no longer with us, Eckhart I am in no position to say either way.
If Hawkins is to be believed in "his" case he has walked through the final door so there is no David Hawkins left.
We cant understand the statement that there is no me left to claim enlightenment it is a non personal state.
It is an entirely different state which replaces the normal egoic state.
Keeping to the main part. An ego less state must be obtainable as it has been spoken of by sages for many thousand years.
Christ certainly was ego less The Father and I are one, Of my self I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer.

There are many pages written here on the subject I would respectfully suggest a wander through them to people who are relatively new to the subject.
Chris
Namaste

NancyV

5th December 2010, 21:50

Hi Greybeard!

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't quibble about anything if we didn't need to talk with words. It's only the words that make things a bit confusing.

I have read a couple of Hawkins books: "The I of the Eye" and "Power vs. Force" and found them quite valuable. But I do not consider the ego to BE a device of separation. It can be USED as a device of separation but in and of itself it is not ONLY a device of separation. It's sort of like saying that "guns kill". It is not guns that kill it is beings that kill (human and others), just as it is not the ego that is a device of separation, it is the being who causes or instigates the separation utilizing their unenlightened ego as a tool to manifest the illusion of separation. I say illusion because in reality we are not separated. The entire creation IS God.

I do not see ego as separate from God but I understand the concept that "there is a final door and on walking through that door the last remnant of the ego dies and only God is left." That remnant of the ego that dies is, in my opinion, the unenlightened ego. After becoming conscious that you are one with God you can use your ego in more beneficial and enlightened ways. It is not a part of my being I would attempt to discard, if that were even possible. It is our connection to God. An ego is an absolute necessity and in fact an unavoidable reality of existing in the illusion of separation from Source. The second the creation energy oozes out from the Source and takes on a human or other conscious beings form it has an ego. That ego was embedded within us as the God spark and is a part of Source, the ultimate I AM, God.

Not only wars and conflicts are driven by the ego, but charity and compassion are also ego driven. To me the goal would be to hone the ego to the point where it focuses it's immense powers upon the more positive things it can accomplish. I cannot truly say that those who promote wars, who kill others, who make life difficult or untenable for many, should be eliminated from this earth. They may serve a purpose which is ultimately beneficial and this whole scenario most tend to look upon as negative and chaotic may just be perfect. On a more personal level if someone extremely dangerous was threatening my life I would not hesitate to kill them if that was the most logical life saving option. I do not consider that to be negative. After all, there really is no death.

The ego uses force whereas the enlightened ego uses power. Hawkins talks about "transcending the opposites of duality and non duality". I take that to mean that once you transcend duality and the unevolved ego and become one with God, you then transcend THAT state of non duality which means taking on ego as a part of the creation. (both or all states are extant concurrently) So I don't see transcending the ego as a final goal because you then, as God, choose to continue on in the never ending wave which flows from non dualistic existence to dualistic existence and back again. It's eternal.

Nancy :)

Dear Nancy
very happy for you.
The only point I would quibble about is definition of ego.
When ego is transcended to a degree then Higher self will have the experiences or similar to the ones that you have expeienced.
There are degrees of enlightenment as described by Dr David Hawkins but there is a final door and on walking through that door the last remnant of the ego dies and only God is left.

In general
Bear in mind that ego is a separation device. It separates one from the true nature of Self.
We choose God/love or we choose ego/fear its simple.
As the ego is transcended we become progressively free of fear and negativity, we become more capable of forgiving and unconditional love.
Keep also in mind that the ego is selfish, grasping, greedy, needing to be right, attention seeking and desiring of specialness.
Every war every conflict small or large is driven by the ego.
So is it important to transcend it?
I believe so.
chris

greybeard

5th December 2010, 22:42

Thanks for your full reply and valid comments Nancy.
The non violent Gandhi won the freedom from colonial rule for India, He was enlightened.
The power of the enlightened is of a different quality than force.
All that is beautiful and life supporting flows through Higher Self all that is non supporting of life flows through the ego.
Thats a basic from the teaching of Hawkins ie the map of consciousness showing the different energies, a sliding scale of supportive of life down to non supportive.
Darkness is the absence of light not an opposite to light as an example. Taking his scale, at calibration 200 there is a crossover point from non supportive to supportive, as the numbers rise so does the degree of supportive, at 500 the mind becomes more right brain and unconditional love begins to develope, at 600 the first level of enlightenment-- non duality occurs to a degree but there is still some ego. At calibration level 1000 the ego has died.
The teaching that flows through the form of Dr Hawkins is well worth investigating for the serious student on the path of enlightenment.

Whatever works for the individual if fine and you contribution is valued Nancy.
Chris
Namate

Zook

6th December 2010, 06:38

Hi Tint,

Hey Zookumar, thanks for your honest and clear words here :) To me, there's a pinch of provocation always, in your posts, I like that...although I am afraid of being hurt by it, to be honest.

Well ... there is fearful symmetry. I'm afraid of hurting others with badly chosen words as much as you're afraid of being hurt by another's badly chosen words. In the end, however, we must defend our ideas even if it offends another's sensibilities else we risk losing Avalon to tea, biscuits, and a dearth of consequentiality. Of course, you'll find me to be a liberal employer of IMHOs, IMOs, MO,OCs, FWIWs, etc. And that usually balances out the harsh tones.

I think purity is present as soon as judgement stops and the truth of whichever situation is acknowledged. I don't think purity is a thing, but an experience. It doesn't depend on space or time, what do you think, Zookumar?

Well, I was looking at purity more along the lines of all body or all mind, e.g. in whole of something. But an experience? Intriguing. My understanding of experience is that you cannot have one unless there is space and time. That creates a dependency. Perhaps what you are describing is a state of being ... as opposed to experience. Purity makes some sense as a state of being; but only as a singular abiding state where all goodness of being exists. Which begs the question ... by experiencing life, are we not always moving from one state of being to another? And if we are so moving, two possibilities exist: (1) we are at purity and therefore must move off purity; (2) we are off purity, and therefore must move into purity. The third density forces us to move; it doesn't allow for our stationary existence. Therefore, if we want to attain purity we must move towards it and not already be there, for if we are there, then we must move off it. Quite the dilemma and paradox, wot?

I think we are ordained to live with an ego, in the present conditions on Earth. The solution to live with an ego, in peace, is the consciousness of it, the discernment of your ego and your soul, by being a witness to both, without judging. No exclusion of feelings or emotions, but being a witness to them, being able to make a conscious choice, so you may master them. There's no force to yield, it's a presence in silence. An awareness in the center of yourself, the stillness, the void. Which is in the heart, for me. Thanks all, for your inspirational posts in this interesting thread :) Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

If that helps you attain inner peace, Tint, more power to you.

My own view is slightly different. I think ego must be judged. Left unjudged, it creates imbalances, IMHO. This applies to our own ego (e.g. when it runs down creating self-esteem issues, or runs amok creating overconfidence issues) ... and also to ego in others (when theirs runs amok or runs down). In my view, a perfect balance of ego - in the third density as we know it - is attained when our ego appears with need and disappears as the need disappears.

Humble opinions all around.

:typing:

meeradas

6th December 2010, 08:44

Very interesting thread! Though it will take some time for me to go through it all... i feel i should make a contribution to it right now, with something that put "my ego" in its place [and shattered my own spiritual belief system completely], about 13 yrs ago:

http://dadaji.info/HEART.HTM?id=

is nice and concise to start with.

Have a great time.

Victoria Tintagel

6th December 2010, 15:52

Tintagelcave
I think purity is present as soon as judgement stops and the truth of whichever situation is acknowledged. I don't think purity is a thing, but an experience. It doesn't depend on space or time, what do you think, Zookumar?

Zookumar:
Well, I was looking at purity more along the lines of all body or all mind, e.g. in whole of something. But an experience? Intriguing. My understanding of experience is that you cannot have one unless there is space and time. That creates a dependency. Perhaps what you are describing is a state of being ... as opposed to experience. Purity makes some sense as a state of being; but only as a singular abiding state where all goodness of being exists. Which begs the question ... by experiencing life, are we not always moving from one state of being to another? And if we are so moving, two possibilities exist: (1) we are at purity and therefore must move off purity; (2) we are off purity, and therefore must move into purity. The third density forces us to move; it doesn't allow for our stationary existence. Therefore, if we want to attain purity we must move towards it and not already be there, for if we are there, then we must move off it. Quite the dilemma and paradox, wot?

Thank you very much, Zookumar, for your very well phrased comments on my post and this one here, in specific :) That reminds me of my choice of the word "experience" cause for me, movement is inherent to an experience and without time and space...... I would'nt know how to have those :) I understand the meaning of purity, to you, as "wholeness" yes.

Zookumar:
In my view, a perfect balance of ego - in the third density as we know it - is attained when our ego appears with need and disappears as the need disappears.
Thanks! I agree wholeheartedly with this, Zookumar :) Now, the only thing we need to know is, when do we decide there's a need for the ego to appear, etc. etc. if that is possible at all.
This question is a bit silly, cause in the spontaneity of the moment, we will find out the answer, by experience :) and choose to learn from that experience, I think. Of course, others will always disagree on whether your ego was on the lead, when they feel hurt, for example, which brings me back to the first part or your post:

Zookumar:
Well ... there is fearful symmetry. I'm afraid of hurting others with badly chosen words as much as you're afraid of being hurt by another's badly chosen words. In the end, however, we must defend our ideas even if it offends another's sensibilities else we risk losing Avalon to tea, biscuits, and a dearth of consequentiality. Of course, you'll find me to be a liberal employer of IMHOs, IMOs, MO,OCs, FWIWs, etc. And that usually balances out the harsh tones.

I am still laughing, since I began to read this part of your post, Zookumar, ha ha... tea and biscuits....a dearth of....huhhh? that's old English English to me :) have to find out what that means.
Thanks for the laugh, Zookumar, I needed that :) Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

Celine

6th December 2010, 16:59

My ego , My shadow

Dwelling in my footsteps

Walks in light, Minds the way

In honor to my soul

Feeds heart, Heals mind

Balance offers freedom

Healthy friend, Indulged foe

greybeard

7th December 2010, 00:33

There is only one consciousness, the sages will say that the Self of the teacher is the same as the Self of the taught,
We are waves of the Divine Ocean.
The Ocean can say it is the wave but the wave can not say it is the Ocean
There is no individual self.
Thats very hard to accept or believe but I have read that so many times from so many teachers that I can accept that it is so.

Ramesh Balsekar the Advaita Guru wrote.
God wrote the play
God is the producer of the play
God is the director of the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the audience of the play.

We are THAT.
We are one without a second

There are many paradoxes in spiritual teaching.
We seem to have free will in order that through that free will and humility we can surrender to God;s will.
Yet Jesus said "Of my self I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer"
We seem to be separate individuals yet are we?
The only prayer that is necessary is "Beloved God how may I serve you?"

Keep in mind please that I talking from the context of the path of enlightenment.
This is not an easy path and does not welcome distractions.
For the person genuinely seeking enlightenment the attractions of the world get progressively laid aside --- seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of Heaven is within.
All true joy and happiness are to be found within, dependence on anything external is fools gold and any pleasure found out with self will be short lived.
That which brings pleasure brings pain.
To be clear though there can be external events that catalyze the joy and happiness within but not to have expectation of another or the world to complete you or make you happy.
Most of this has been written many pages back but it came to mind to write it again.

Ramesh also said God gave you an ego let him remove it. You have to ask though.

When the ego is removed this act of the play comes to an end and we move forward as collective consciousness.

Chris
Namaste

truthseekerdan

7th December 2010, 01:09

Each of us are 'individual conscious vibrations' from the Divine Source, all at different levels of vibration...

Namaste ~ :wub: ~ Dan

VajraYaya

7th December 2010, 08:47

Hey Chris..

It is profoundly egotistical to want to transcend the ego. That desire creates a tension that will forever separate you from what you seek. As long as you seek dissolution of this enemy you will remain ‘dual’, not unity. What is it that you mean by “Transcend”? To negate, to abandon, leave behind? Could you any more leave your ego behind than you could leave your soul? You have transcended being an infant, but do you want to forever erase your experience of being one, for fear that that experience holds you back from growing up? Or is there enough room in the container of your more evolved awareness to remember, own and inhabit your history of the experience of being the infant and how that has enriched you?

And what is this enlightenment stuff anyway? Is it the transitory bliss experience, that we glimpse for the first time, when we experience the most powerfully painfully and profoundly blissful merging and dissolution of subject and object as we get our very first taste of the divine nature of all, only to have it wrenched away leaving us to experience the TRUE dark night of the soul? Or is it much bigger, more permanent? A state which, through practices which help us to train the container that is our consciousness as experienced here in this manifest realm, to be able to withstand the pressures of being able to experience and contain and thus radiate more and more of that divine love to all that exists here?

Enlightenment is a word that is thrown around all too lightly these days, but one thing is for sure, it’s definition and experience changes and becomes wider and deeper the more we evolve and the more we are able to experience.

You like to quote a lot of authors and sages whose words have often been misinterpreted, or may have been intended for an audience that was of a much different and earlier time, where far fewer were starting to awaken, to question and to discover this nature, this long hidden and mysterious truth, often unimpeded by the teaching of others.

Words of sages and authors aside, thought set aside, concepts of unworthiness set aside, What does your own heart tell you? What does your wordlessness tell you? What does it FEEL like when you experience all that divinity within you that you have not yet discovered, or have forgotten when you came here?

When you have experienced the wordless, thoughtless merging of ego and soul and then come back to more gross consciousness, you may find that what was once seen as enemy, what was once identified with smallness, separateness, specialness, labels, wounds, damage or employment and loved self importance, now identifies with it’s own divine nature, and the radiant divine nature of all others, all beings, all objects, all experiences, all stars, all galaxies….

This former enemy now becomes trusted guide and companion that now enables you to have a so much richer, juicier experience of this ream. Now, to witness the color of the sky, to see a bee lighting on a flower, to feel the comfort of an impeccably tailored suit, to witness the flavors of a juicy marinated bison burger with tomato and sprouts, to honor the love and craft that went into brewing that perfect English Ale, to feel your separate physical, manifest self wrapped in a 7.2 litre, V12 Aston Martin One77 passionately engineered and lovingly constructed by other divine beings, racing down the autobahn at 200mph, you carry with you new knowledge about what/who it is that is having this experience and a much greater ability to simply be present much more deeply, without identifying with or wanting to cling to any aspect of it, no pain, no struggle, just fully witnessed deeper moments, one after the other.

But then again, maybe its more… Just spitballin’.

So, back to words.. GO back and read that link I posted a couple pages back ;-)

greybeard

7th December 2010, 11:48

Each of us are 'individual conscious vibrations' from the Divine Source, all at different levels of vibration...

Namaste ~ :wub: ~ Dan

True Dan for our level of vibration and beyond that is formless awareness.
self is evolving, vibration rising.
The sages meet us where we stand and give us information that pertains to our vibration, in order to lift us to the next level on our journey home.
We will always be aware but individual is a word and what we are is beyond description.
The ancient Indian teaching will tell you that eventually you merge with God, that there is the in breath and out breath of God, that you existed before all universes and will exist after all universes dissolve. God is "Generation Order Dissolution" The One becomes the many then becomes the One. We are that One for eternity.
However all that being said, we have to be in this world as though it is real.
Much love Chris

greybeard

7th December 2010, 12:06

Hi Vajra
much of what you say is so.
I have had the dark nights of the soul, the Ecstasy of Divine union and I believe what Dr Hawkins says and he is further on than I.
Not better than but in a different state.
Enlightenment is not a goal not something to obtain, it is your true nature and shines forth when the obstacles are removed.
Words are inadequate to describe the experiences that have happened in my life that first prove to me that there is a God, I am not the body, and that teachings spoke of things which had already happened.
The body experiences and silent mind which made me think I was loosing it ( the mind) I found to be Kundalini in action and the peace of God.
The Shiddis in the form of spontaneous healings of people in my energy field, I claim no credit for.
All happened before I read Hawkins or Eckhart Tolle.
Transcending ego cant be done without the help of The Holy Spirit the small self dosent have the high spiritual energy required to remove the obstacles.
So humility not ego is required on the path of "Devotional non-duality" as set out by Hawkins. I dont follow him but I do the on board the teachings in his books and the teachings of many other who say the ego is the barrier to knowing ones true self.
Chris
Namaste
I feel a lot that you attribute to the ego is actually the Higher Self working through you.

DawgBone

7th December 2010, 13:15

to feel your separate physical, manifest self wrapped in a 7.2 litre, V12 Aston Martin One77 passionately engineered and lovingly constructed by other divine beings, racing down the autobahn at 200mph

LOL! A transcendant automotive experience. God by way of fuel injection!

I have real sympathy for this point of view. And as you point out the object of experience can be as simple as a "bee lighting on a flower". The Japanese tea ceremony, a Zen rock garden, a simple Cézanne with two apples and a pear, the sound of a loved one's laughter, a chickadee at your feeder.

The trick, in my opinion, is not to concentrate of shrinking your ego, but to concentrate on expanding your empathetic perception. If you can become the many wondrous things in this world, your ego will naturally be transformed.

greybeard

7th December 2010, 13:57

LOL! A transcendant automotive experience. God by way of fuel injection!

I have real sympathy for this point of view. And as you point out the object of experience can be as simple as a "bee lighting on a flower". The Japanese tea ceremony, a Zen rock garden, a simple Cézanne with two apples and a pear, the sound of a loved one's laughter, a chickadee at your feeder.

The trick, in my opinion, is not to concentrate of shrinking your ego, but to concentrate on expanding your empathetic perception. If you can become the many wondrous things in this world, your ego will naturally be transformed.

Yes the path to enlightenment is being in the moment truly appreciating the beauty of what ever arises.
The ones who are in the state of enlightenment view that world as it truly is, divinity radiating out of every leaf and twig every soul, they are literally illumined.
So do we want a life where on the whole events are filtered by the labeling and judgment that goes on in the un enlightened consciousness? The world of ignorance, belief systems, programing, concepts, a world of fear. Thats the illusion perceived by the ego controlled mind.
Bear in mind I am stating what I believe to be so at this moment, im not belittling others points of views or trying to convince anyone that I am right.
I point to teachers that I do believe know through their subjective experience what enlightenment is and they point the way to removing obstacles to Truth.
Discernment is necessary as there are many books which seem to resonate but I have found that what the teachers I have mentioned write and speak of cross checks with the Vedas, Upanisheds, oldest forms of spiritual teachings thousands of years before Christ, all saying Only God is and we are That, all saying the presence of God is within.
God experiences through us that which He knows intellectually is one way of looking at it but words fall short of reality.
So enjoy life have the adrenalin rushes, I do.
Regards to all Chris

DawgBone

7th December 2010, 14:04

I point to teachers that I do believe know through their subjective experience what enlightenment is and they point the way to removing obstacles to Truth.

I plan on reading some of the people you recommend, Greybeard, and appreciate the references.

truthseekerdan

7th December 2010, 16:14

True Dan for our level of vibration and beyond that is formless awareness.
self is evolving, vibration rising.
The sages meet us where we stand and give us information that pertains to our vibration, in order to lift us to the next level on our journey home.
We will always be aware but individual is a word and what we are is beyond description.
The ancient Indian teaching will tell you that eventually you merge with God, that there is the in breath and out breath of God, that you existed before all universes and will exist after all universes dissolve. God is "Generation Order Dissolution" The One becomes the many then becomes the One. We are that One for eternity.
However all that being said, we have to be in this world as though it is real.
Much love Chris

Now, this is what I should have added, but got 'distracted', and did not realize that it is an incomplete sentence: "Each of us are 'individual conscious vibrations' from the Divine Source, all at different levels of vibration -- in this illusionary holographic Universe, to experience diversity as a divine gift (freedom of choice) outside of Oneness."

Everything that vibrates and has form is illusionary. Pure consciousness is formless, and that is "our true essence in Oneness" (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2017:11&version=CEV).

Hope this makes more sense...:love:

Namaste ~ Dan

greybeard

7th December 2010, 16:55

Now, this is what I should have added, but got 'distracted', and did not realize that it is an incomplete sentence: "Each of us are 'individual conscious vibrations' from the Divine Source, all at different levels of vibration -- in this illusionary holographic Universe, to experience diversity as a divine gift (freedom of choice) outside of Oneness."

Everything that vibrates and has form is illusionary. Pure consciousness is formless, and that is "our true essence in Oneness" (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2017:11&version=CEV).

Hope this makes more sense...:love:

Namaste ~ Dan

Yes Dan that is my understanding.
All form eventually dissolves, only the permanent is Truth. We are permanent.
Course in Miracles says "Know that if you take up a point of view/position you are identifying with an illusion."
Hawkins says "All thoughts are fallacious"

All without exception that comes and goes is an illusion.
All fear eventually breaks down to the fear of dying
All fear is identification with the form, the body.
We are not the body
So enjoy the play free from fear.
Thanks Dan what you have posted sums up the position beautifully.
Love Chris

Victoria Tintagel

7th December 2010, 23:30

Everything that vibrates and has form is illusionary. Pure consciousness is formless, and that is "our true essence in Oneness".

Hope this makes more sense...

Namaste ~ Dan

Thank you, Dan, you are a Truthseeker :) I think it's making sense, very much so, but I think a very sensible thing to do, is treating the material world as a given fact and not from an illusionary point of view. Look at the civilisation of India, the carelessness of matter, cause the people in India live in Maya consciousness (Maya = all is illusion). At least they used to live like that, until this age. No offense, there's much beauty in India, but the state of material wellfare is the condition, survival surpassed, that brings forth the opportunity to focus on a spiritual dimension. Like the world we live in, now, since the fifties.

We are going to transcend the material oriented world, simply cause it's a world of warfare and greed. There are no winners in such a world, neither evolution. It's the duality wargame of Lucifer, in my nsho. But as long as we surround ourselves with material goodies, we better excersise attention, wakefulness, elegance, beauty, grace and loving care on them. That attitude is part of the ascension process, I believe: and excersise in wakefulness.

This quote of yours, Dan, reminds me of a, to me, important lesson, by Don Juan, the Toltec shaman and teacher. Remember Carlos Castaneda and his books, beginning with "The lessons of Don Juan?"
The whole serie of books offers a great psychological landscape of the human mind,
from a sorcerer's and shaman's point of view and tools for stepping "out of the box".
I think these lessons are great teachings, every 5 years or so, I reread them, since the early seventies.
These books keep offering new insights, quite special! Anyway, come to the point, Tint :)

In one of the books, Don Juan says to Carlos Castaneda:

"Whatever happens in your life, don't take anything personal and decide it doesn't count.
But whatever you handle in your life, treat it as if it counts most dearly".

I guess that's a wonderful excersise for the ego, hmmmm?
Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

truthseekerdan

8th December 2010, 01:27

Thank you, Dan, you are a Truthseeker :)

Back to you Tint, :) just throwing some seeds hoping they will fall on fertile soil...

I think it's making sense, very much so, but I think a very sensible thing to do, is treating the material world as a given fact and not from an illusionary point of view.

I was not talking obviously from this 3D perspective point of view, but from a higher one which one can find looking within. Hope this helps. :love:

Look at the civilisation of India, the carelessness of matter, cause the people in India live in Maya consciousness (Maya = all is illusion). At least they used to live like that, until this age. No offense, there's much beauty in India, but the state of material wellfare is the condition, survival surpassed, that brings forth the opportunity to focus on a spiritual dimension. Like the world we live in, now, since the fifties.

As you may know, India is also under a heavy religious veil, and only a few (in rapport to populous) are on a 'pure spiritual path', so to say...

We are going to transcend the material oriented world, simply cause it's a world of warfare and greed. There are no winners in such a world, neither evolution. It's the duality wargame of Lucifer, in my nsho. But as long as we surround ourselves with material goodies, we better excersise attention, wakefulness, elegance, beauty, grace and loving care on them. That attitude is part of the ascension process, I believe: and excersise in wakefulness.

We chose to be here, because 'we believed' that we can change what 'we actually spoiled', but first we need to remember 'who we are'...

This quote of yours, Dan, reminds me of a, to me, important lesson, by Don Juan, the Toltec shaman and teacher. Remember Carlos Castaneda and his books, beginning with "The lessons of Don Juan?"
The whole serie of books offers a great psychological landscape of the human mind,
from a sorcerer's and shaman's point of view and tools for stepping "out of the box".
I think these lessons are great teachings, every 5 years or so, I reread them, since the early seventies.
These books keep offering new insights, quite special! Anyway, come to the point, Tint :)

In one of the books, Don Juan says to Carlos Castaneda:

"Whatever happens in your life, don't take anything personal and decide it doesn't count.
But whatever you handle in your life, treat it as if it counts most dearly".

I guess that's a wonderful excersise for the ego, hmmmm?
Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

Not familiar with the book, but seems like a good read. As for the ego part -- you have the freedom of choice...;)

With Love and blessings ~ Dan

Victoria Tintagel

8th December 2010, 01:54

Thanks, Dan :)
Tint:
I think it's making sense, very much so, but I think a very sensible thing to do, is treating the material world as a given fact and not from an illusionary point of view.

I was deliberatey talking from this 3D perspecitve point of view, cause I know there's people out there, who live literally from the illusionary point of view, never paying attention to material things. Thinking that ALL is ILLUSION, so why pay attention and why earn money? It's a non-productive and non-engaged way of existence, which isn't useful or valuable at all.

Dan:
I was not talking obviously from this 3D perspective point of view, but from a higher one which one can find looking within. Hope this helps.

Tint:
Look at the civilisation of India, the carelessness of matter, cause the people in India live in Maya consciousness (Maya = all is illusion). At least they used to live like that, until this age. No offense, there's much beauty in India, but the state of material wellfare is the condition, survival surpassed, that brings forth the opportunity to focus on a spiritual dimension. Like the world we live in, now, since the fifties.

Dan:
As you may know, India is also under a heavy religious veil, and only a few (in rapport to populous) are on a 'pure spiritual path', so to say...

I was thinking of an earlier time, regarding the spiritual character of India, maybe the start of the Indian civilisation in the Indus Valley, refugees, after Atlantis sank?
In general, I have to be careful :) The poor and not very rich Indian people live with death and life as equals. They tend to be less attached to the physical world and so they don't show
great ambition, to grow rich and wealthy, own lots of things.

And yes, Dan :) I have the freedom of choice, very true :) thanks! Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

Alaois

8th December 2010, 13:20

Hello Project Avalon,

I'm new here and this is my 2nd post. I don't have time to read all the entries on this thread but will stay in line with Graybeards original post and what I did read. Please forgive me if I run over the same ground someone else already covered.

The clinical/psychological approach to purification of one's ego and the spiritual approach (as there are many schools of thought and different methods or disciplines across the whole religious spectrum) are different in approach but if done correctly ultimately lead to the same result as Buddha Guatama called "The other shore."

In psychology alone there are many schools of thought and approaches to healing the psyche. Just like methods of spiritual attainment, methods of psychology can either lead to liberation or lead to further damaging the persona. Common-sense prevailing good approach, good result, bad approach bad result. And spiritual methodology can be used hand in hand with psychological methodology to transform one's existence into a healthier balance with the world and ultimately the cosmos if done correctly.

Examples of the close correlation between one's spiritual approach and psychological approach is in "Right Conduct, Right Speech and Right Attitude all lead to a healthier ego and a better chance to transcend it.

Once a person has had a transcendental or transformative experience, keeping in mind that there are many of these experiences before one attains "Enlightenment", a person then experiences what some people may call "Supernatural Powers" but what are considered by some as our latent/inherent gifts/blessings from "God". For instance a martial arts expert through their methodology gain the ability to see in other rooms with their third eye and even see miles away. Especially when someone from their eternal spiritual family is involved. When a soul mate is involved humans have the natural ability to talk with them through their eternal unbreakable umbilical cord through mental telepathy even though they are miles apart. Another natural ability gained once a person starts healing from the trauma of dying and being re-born is remembering when they were born, remembering even when they were in their Mothers blood stream, remembering their past lives and even remembering they were eternal once and who their eternal original family was and what they experienced before death was introduced to eternal beings.

And this is when books are transcended (and books are ultimately an engraven image as there is no reason for books in eternity) for the simple reason is that once someone has total recall of their place in eternity and awareness of their original spiritual family and friends, there are memories to draw from that go back forever and the truth of what happened is right there one's own psi-bank of endless experiences. One naturally then realizes that death had its beginning point and will ultimately have its ending as we return to live in eternity never to die again as "God" has promised.

True spiritual teachings (and psychological ones, too)help us to unbind our chakras connect us to the web of life making us aware of our inseperability from everything else(excepting evil), makes us aware of our true purpose here on earth and further deepen our connection with Mother Nature and the Divine Light. So then we develop the ability to have spontaneous epiphanies on the nature of reality and its relationship to the Divine and eventually fall into Timeless Rapture (spontaneous teachings from the Divine source of all things) over our spiritual family and our blessing from as Native Americans term "Father Sky" and "Mother Earth". Than there is no need for reading books anymore. I personally am not saying I'm anywhere close to the stage yet.

Another part to this whole strain of thought is that as in the movie "The Good, the Bad and Ugly." "Why do I always have to hang by the rope, Blondie?" There are two types of people in this world. That when a person experiences the breaking down of ones false, conditioned ego and falls into poverty they show their true selves. An eternal being when following a strict discipline and fall into poverty over and over again smashing their false ego and removing more and more of their subtle obscurations, realize their essentially good people and ultimately haven't done anything wrong, they just had false clouds or obscurations vibed into their psyche by a plethora of evil-minded ones. And that person has always safeguarded their place in eternity as a sentient whole will at some point in the future will never have to experience death again and will experience "Timeless Rapture" An evil-minded person will just become more and more disgusting to be around since their only thoughts are to hurt others and pervert eternity forever. They only realization that will come out of it is that there is no good purpose for that entity to be here. But not for that Evildoer, he/she can't get past the thought of hurting others and the best result for he or she is to go mindless and leave existence without thinking anything.

Well there's my two cents worth.

Alaois

Alaois

8th December 2010, 15:16

Just another thing to add:

When ego is transformed or transcended the 5 poisons written about in buddhism and which we all experience are all transformed into their altruistic form.

1. Anger - using mirror wisdom - premature anger is transformed into Universal Anger towards Evildoers and their unrelenting plot to shut down creation.
2. Pride - using equalizing wisdom - premature pride is transformed into Universal Pride regarding ones spiritual family and friends.
3. Lust - using discriminating wisdom - premature lust is transformed universal into one-pointed self absorption with the proper love mate.
4. Jealousy - using all-accomplishing wisdom - premature jealousy is transformed into Universal Jealousy which reflects a close loved family person or friend who is in serious danger from evil forces.
5. Ignorance - using reality perfection wisdom - premature ignorance is transformed into Universal Ignorance where has the freedom to be a child at heart again. As in the buddhist context that absolutely not one person has the ability to know everything about one given point anywhere in existence due to the complexity of their own nature, their own surroundings and the way creation works. And when a person is living in pure love and surrounded by it, the last thing they are thinking about is how much they know or knowing more others than since there is an eternity of new experiences for them anyhow and they radiating total love for their surroundings.

The false disciplines in Hinduism attempt to attribute characteristics of God to an individual. As the false teacher is attempting to deify himself.
For example:

Destiny - being a characteristic from the Divine - to a human it translates as fate or one's karma to work out.
Re-incarnation - being a characteristic from the Divine - a human experiences it as re-birth.

Alaois

greybeard

8th December 2010, 18:31

Thanks Alaois
One Zen Master on asked to sum up his "religion" said " Simple, no self no problem"
Chris

Victoria Tintagel

8th December 2010, 19:25

Alaois:
An evil-minded person will just become more and more disgusting to be around since their only thoughts are to hurt others and pervert eternity forever. The only realization that will come out of it is that there is no good purpose for that entity to be here. But not for that Evildoer, he/she can't get past the thought of hurting others and the best result for he or she is to go mindless and leave existence without thinking anything.

Hey Alaois, thanks for your 2nd post,
Well there's my two cents worth. HA! Welcome to Avalon Forum :) I believe in the love and goodness of people and I don't believe in souls that are on an everlasting path of evildoing and dissolve in the end. To me, life never ceases to exist, once created it cannot be undone, it can change form, yes. Our souls will never cease to exist, I believe. No soul is lost, ever, only delayed :) I am an optimistic human being and I believe in the power of Love, as the greatest transformational power in the Universe.

The wisdom of Love is tremendous and difficult to see clearly from an ego-point of view. Ego and karma are entwined and I like to post some thoughts on karmic laws: the balancing of experiences in lifetimes, negative versus positive. To learn about the onsequences of our deeds. We are solving karmic issues in tonloads at the moment, leaving karma behind = stepping out of duality consciousness: the condition of the 3rd dimension. When a physical poleshift occurs, we step up to higher dimensions and leave the prison of duality. Finally we can start celebrating life fully and start creating, instead of processing all kind of issues from the past. Isn't that great? Well, that's my nsho :)

Let's see why evil exists and step up onto the overview platform for a moment. This brings a whole new perspective in this discussion.
I love to know what you Avaloneans think about this one. Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

The Little Soul and The Sun
A Children's Parable
by Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations With God

Once upon no time, there was a little Soul who said to God, "I know who I am."

And God said, "That's wonderful! Who are you?"

And the Little Soul shouted, "I'm the Light!"

God smiled a big smile. "That's right!" God exclaimed. "You are the Light."

The Little Soul was so happy, for it had figured out what all the souls in the Kingdom were there to figure out.

"Wow," said the Little Soul, "this is really cool!"

But soon, knowing who it was was not enough. The Little Soul felt stirrings inside, and now wanted to be who it was. And so the Little Soul went back to God (which is not a bad idea for all souls who want to be Who They Really Are) and said,

"Hi, God! Now that I know Who I am, is it okay for me to be it?"

And God said, "You mean you want to be Who You Already Are?"

"Well," replied the Little Soul," it's one thing to know Who I Am, and another thing altogether to actually be it. I want to feel what it's like to be the Light!"

"But you already are the Light," God repeated, smiling again.

"Yes, but I want to see what that feels like!" cried the Little Soul.

"Well," said God with a chuckle, "I suppose I should have known. You always were the adventuresome one."

Then God's expression changed. "There's only one thing..."

"What?" asked the Little Soul.

"Well, there is nothing else but the Light. You see, I created nothing but what you are; and so, there is no easy way for you to experience yourself as Who You Are, since there is nothing that you are not."

"Huh?" said the Little Soul, who was now a little confused.

"Think of it this way," said God. "You are like a candle in the Sun. Oh, you're there all right. Along with a million, gazillion other candles who make up the Sun. And the sun would not be the Sun without you. Nay, it would be a sun without one of its candles...and that would not be the Sun at all; for it would not shine as brightly. Yet, how to know yourself as the Light when you are amidst the Light -that is the question."

"Well," the Little Soul perked up, "you're God. Think of something!"

Once more God smiled. "I already have," God said. "Since you cannot see yourself as the Light when you are in the Light, we'll surround you with darkness."

"What's darkness?" the Little Soul asked.

God replied, "It is that which you are not."

"Will I be afraid of the dark?" cried the Little Soul.

"Only if you choose to be," God answered. "There is nothing, really, to be afraid of, unless you decide that there is. You see, we are making it all up. We are pretending."

"Oh," said the Little Soul, and felt better already.

Then God explained that, in order to experience anything at all, the exact opposite of it will appear. "It is a great gift," God said, "because without it, you could not know what anything is like. You could not know Warm without Cold, Up without Down, Fast without Slow. You could not know Left without Right, Here without There, Now without Then."

"And so," God concluded, "when you are surrounded with darkness, do not shake your fist and raise your voice and curse the darkness. Rather be a Light unto the darkness, and don't be mad about it. Then you will know Who You Really Are, and all others will know, too. Let your Light shine so that everyone will know how special you are!"

"You mean it's okay to let others see how special I am?" asked the Little Soul.

"Of course!" God chuckled. "It's very okay! But remember,'special' does not mean 'better.' Everybody is special, each in their own way! Yet many others have forgotten that. They will see that it is okay for them to be special only when you see that it is okay for you to be special."

"Wow," said the Little Soul, dancing and skipping and laughing and jumping with joy. "I can be as special as I want to be!"

"Yes, and you can start right now," said God, who was dancing and skipping and laughing right along with the Little Soul.

"What part of special do you want to be?"

"What part of special?" the Little Soul repeated. "I don't understand."

"Well," God explained, "being the Light is being special, and being special has a lot of parts to it. It is special to be kind. It is special to be gentle. It is special to be creative. It is special to be patient. Can you think of any other ways it is special to be?"

The Little Soul sat quietly for a moment. "I can think of lots of ways to be special!" the Little Soul then exclaimed. "It is special to be helpful. It is special to be sharing. It is special to be friendly. It is special to be considerate of others!"

"Yes!" God agreed, "and you can be all of those things, or any part of special you wish to be, at any moment. That's what it means to be the Light."

"I know what I want to be, I know what I want to be!" the Little Soul announced with great excitement. "I want to be the part of special called 'forgiving'. Isn't it special to be forgiving?"

"Oh, yes," God assured the Little Soul. "That is very special."

"Okay," said the Little Soul. "That's what I want to be. I want to be forgiving. I want to experience myself as that."

"Good," said God, "but there's one thing you should know."

The Little Soul was becoming a bit impatient now. It always seemed as though there were some complication.

"What is it?" the Little Soul sighed.

"There is no one to forgive."

"No one?" The Little Soul could hardly believe what had been said.

"No one!" God repeated. "Everything I have made is perfect. There is not a single soul in all creation less perfect than you. Look around you."

It was then that the Little Soul realized a large crowd had gathered. Souls had come from far and wide ~ from all over the Kingdom ~ for the word had gone forth that the Little Soul was having this extraordinary conversation with God, and everyone wanted to hear what they were saying. Looking at the countless other souls gathered there, the Little Soul had to agree. None appeared less wonderful, less magnificent, or less perfect than the Little Soul itself. Such was the wonder of the souls gathered around, and so bright was their Light, that the Little Soul could scarcely gaze upon them.

"Who, then, to forgive?" asked God.

"Boy, this is going to be no fun at all!" grumbled the Little Soul. "I wanted to experience myself as One Who Forgives. I wanted to know what that part of special felt like."

And the Little Soul learned what it must feel like to be sad. But just then a Friendly Soul stepped forward from the crowd.

"Not to worry, Little Soul," the Friendly Soul said, "I will help you."

"You will?" the Little Soul brightened. "But what can you do?"

"Why, I can give you someone to forgive!"

"You can?"

"Certainly!" chirped the Friendly Soul. "I can come into your next lifetime and do something for you to forgive."

"But why? Why would you do that?" the Little Soul asked. "You, who are a Being of such utter perfection! You, who vibrate with such a speed that it creates a Light so bright that I can hardly gaze upon you! What could cause you to want to slow down your vibration to such a speed that your bright Light would become dark and dense? What could cause you ~ who are so light that you dance upon the stars and move through the Kingdom with the speed of your thought--to come into my life and make yourself so heavy that you could do this bad thing?"

"Simple," the Friendly Soul said. "I would do it because I love you."

The Little Soul seemed surprised at the answer.

"Don't be so amazed," said the Friendly Soul, "you have done the same thing for me. Don't you remember? Oh, we have danced together, you and I, many times. Through the eons and across all the ages have we danced. Across all time and in many places have we played together. You just don't remember."

"We have both been All Of It. We have been the Up and the Down of it, the Left and the Right of it. We have been the Here and the There of it, the Now and the Then of it. We have been the male and the female, the good and the bad; we have both been the victim and the villain of it."

"Thus have we come together, you and I, many times before; each bringing to the other the exact and perfect opportunity to Express and to Experience Who We Really Are. And so," the Friendly Soul explained further, "I will come into your next lifetime and be the 'bad one' this time. I will do something really terrible, and then you can experience yourself as the One Who Forgives.

"But what will you do?" the Little Soul asked, just a little nervously, "that will be so terrible?"

"Oh," replied the Friendly Soul with a twinkle, "we'll think of something."

Then the Friendly Soul seemed to turn serious, and said in a quiet voice, "You are right about one thing, you know."

"What is that?" the Little Soul wanted to know.

"I will have to slow down my vibration and become very heavy to do this not-so-nice thing. I will have to pretend to be something very unlike myself. And so, I have but one favour to ask of you in return."

"Oh, anything, anything!" cried the Little Soul, and began to dance and sing, "I get to be forgiving, I get to be forgiving!"

Then the Little Soul saw that the Friendly Soul was remaining very quiet.

"What is it?" the Little Soul asked. "What can I do for you? You are such an angel to be willing to do this for me!"

"Of course this Friendly Soul is an angel!" God interrupted. "Everyone is! Always remember: I have sent you nothing but angels."

And so the Little Soul wanted more than ever to grant the Friendly Soul's request. "What can I do for you?" the Little Soul asked again.

"In the moment that I strike you and smite you," the Friendly Soul replied, "in the moment that I do the worst to you that you could possible imagine ~ in that very moment..."

"Yes?" the Little Soul interrupted, "yes...?""Remember Who I Really Am."

"Oh, I will!" cried the Little Soul, "I promise! I will always remember you as I see you right here, right now!"

"Good," said the Friendly Soul, "because, you see, I will have been pretending so hard, I will have forgotten myself. And if you do not remember me as I really am, I may not be able to remember for a very long time. And if I forget Who I Am, you may even forget Who You Are, and we will both be lost. Then we will need another soul to come along and remind us both of Who We Are."

"No, we won't!" the Little Soul promised again. "I will remember you! And I will thank you for bringing me this gift ~ the chance to experience myself as Who I Am.

"And so, the agreement was made. And the Little Soul went forth into a new lifetime, excited to be the Light, which was very special, and excited to be that part of special called Forgiveness.

And the Little Soul waited anxiously to be able to experience itself as Forgiveness, and to thank whatever other soul made it possible. And at all the moments in that new lifetime, whenever a new soul appeared on the scene, whether that new soul brought joy or sadness--and especially if it brought sadness--the Little Soul thought of what God had said.

"Always remember," God had smiled, "I have sent you nothing but angels."

by Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations With God

greybeard

8th December 2010, 20:07

Dear Tintagelcave
Thank you for your contribution.
Earth is the perfect place to gain karmic merit and therefore to grow spiritually.
Every moment we chose either fear or love.
We choose the positive or the negative.
When we choose good over evil we are contributing to the raising of collective consciousness as well as our seeming personal vibration.
The situation in the concentration camps in Germany led to many acts of compassion for others, sharing the little that a prisoner had, the forgiveness that came about during and after the war, the acts of bravery to help others on the battle field.
Every act of kindness however small lifts the vibration, every malicious thought or act lowers it.
We have a responsibility for our thoughts words and deeds.
Compassion arises where necessary and is the greatest form of human love as nothing is sought in return.
Hopefully we are coming to a time where evil is on the way out.
It is my intention to be kind to all life including my own no matter what.
Sometimes my action does not match my intention though,
Work in progress.
Chris
Namaste

Alaois

9th December 2010, 00:48

Hi tintagelcave,

You said: < Let's see why evil exists and step up onto the overview platform for a moment.> in your last post. Sorry, I'm not that familiar with this forum to highlight my posts correctly?

Okay then <Let's see why evil exists and step up onto the overview platform for a moment.>

There is a saying in the Bible and it goes something like this. Jesus says "Take the mote out of your own eye before you try to take it out of some other persons eye."

This is simply saying that the more you take the mote out of your own eye, the more you realize where it is coming from and eventually after years of self sacrifice you will find the source of it. All religious scriptures back that statement up. Experience stands up for the same fact. Trust me. And, sorry tintagelclave but LOVE does not understand HATE except how to stop it from diminishing LOVE.

btw - demons are sometimes your teachers and considered angels because they unconsciously lead you out of darkness, regardless of what your thinking or they are thinking, simply because your paying attention to their behavior patterns and trancing back their erroneous thoughts manifested as behavior patterns.

Oh yeah and HA! to you too.

Alaois

Alaois

9th December 2010, 01:04

btw - If my actions betray my intentions, somebody please correct me. Unless I'm evil minded of course. Then it's somehow the same isn't it. I still have to be corrected.

truthseekerdan

9th December 2010, 01:13

btw - If my actions betray my intentions, somebody please correct me. Unless I'm evil minded of course. Then it's somehow the same isn't it. I still have to be corrected.

I would say this again... It is in our nature (flesh/ego) to experience what "we are not" in spirit. A picture's worth a thousand words.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa77/nanasadd/Love%20and%20Light/wolves-331.jpg

Alaois

9th December 2010, 01:16

Hi truthseekerdan,

Ever heard of the "Wolf in sheep's clothing"?

Alaois

truthseekerdan

9th December 2010, 01:39

Hi truthseekerdan,

Ever heard of the "Wolf in sheep's clothing"?

Alaois

Are you referring that, you are one of them? ;)

Alaois

9th December 2010, 02:04

truthseekerdan says,

Are you referring that, you are one of them?

I say,

No truthseekerdan.

I'm just pointing out that your logic or information or whatever you want to call it is totally off or false. As pertaining to erroneous or misleading as some would call it.

Alaois

truthseekerdan

9th December 2010, 02:35

I say,

No truthseekerdan.

I'm just pointing out that your logic or information or whatever you want to call it is totally off or false. As pertaining to erroneous or misleading as some would call it.

Alaois

With all due respect, that is your opinion and/or perspective.
Also we're talking about EGO on this thread...:focus:

Alaois

9th December 2010, 02:54

truthseekerdan,

With all due respect, that is your opinion and/or perspective.
Also we're talking about EGO on this thread...

I say with all due respect truthseekerdan, that EGO is EGO and TRUTH is TRUTH and it is ultimately up to the person experiencing their own experience to realize that point. I feel you jumped the gun here. Back to topic. Did your EGO get bruised? Because I still don't understand your Wolf analogy. ;)

Ross

9th December 2010, 03:08

truthseekerdan's Wolf analogy is a goody, it does illustrate the 'ego versus love', or 'evil versus good'. The dualistic paradox of who we are 'here and now' That is my interpretation of it.

Ross

truthseekerdan

9th December 2010, 03:10

I would say this again... It is in our nature (flesh/ego) to experience what "we are not" in spirit.

Perhaps I was not elaborate enough in my statement.
What I meant is that we have a lower self -- our 3D body (ego mind) -- and a Greater Self -- our true Divine Essence (soul/spirit).
We have to progress (evolve) from our lower self to the Greater Self by remembering (awaken), who we really are and achieve the "divine plan" of this life on Earth. :nod:

Alaois

9th December 2010, 03:22

Hi Ross,

We are talking here on this thread about transformation or transcendence of ego, which the Wolf analogy does not address correctly. True authentic humans don't have those negative qualities in their hearts that is listed there. They simply carry the shadows of dis-incarnate beings around with them until they learn how to cast them away. A true wolf in Mother Nature doesn't think that way ever as animals (being eternal as we humans are) are as peaceful as any benevolent person on this planet. Just ask the animals. So sorry all, that analogy acts as a negative slant on Mother Nature and doesn't speak to the real truth or help as a valid path to transforming the ego.

And sorry truthseekerdan for being so candid in my thoughts.

Alaois

truthseekerdan

9th December 2010, 03:27

And sorry truthseekerdan for being so candid in my thoughts.

Alaois

OK, nothing to be sorry about -- you got your point across. Still not sure what you mean by "true authentic humans"...:ohwell:

Alaois

9th December 2010, 09:45

Hi truthseekerdan,

You said: Still not sure what you mean by "true authentic humans"...

From my experience there are dis-incarnate spirits disguised as humans mimicking their behavior patterns in order to shut down the creationary process altogether. They were as an analogy single celled entities spawned from Secret multi-tentacled (celled) entities that came from a dimension totally unrelated to eternity. And these secret entities or Gods as these dis-incarnate spirits view them never gained the ability to take physical manifestation as we have. The single entities disguised as humans once had a totally different form but the Secret Gods/Entities after having lost the original form of it's single entity by mimicking eternity figured out how to spawn entities which look human but whos souls are dead. This where all the negative thoughts on the planet are emanating from.

A true authentic human was born from eternity - meaning they have existed for time immemorial - experienced death at some point in the past - and eventually will all work themselves back to eternal beings. Meaning they will never have to experience death again at some point in the future.

Pulling from The Bible -

1. A true authentic human or as buddhist's call them sentient beings - are in the Book of Life - As it was in the beginning it will be in the end.

2. Dis-incarnate beings- or dead men walking, Evildoers, harbor nothing but harm in their minds- are considered part of The Book of the Dead/Lifeless - meaning that their energy which is an anti-thesis to peace, love and joy will eventually be transformed and they won't exist ever again.

Hope this clears it up.

Alaois

greybeard

9th December 2010, 12:55

Perhaps I was not elaborate enough in my statement.
What I meant is that we have a lower self -- our 3D body (ego mind) -- and a Greater Self -- our true Divine Essence (soul/spirit).
We have to progress (evolve) from our lower self to the Greater Self by remembering (awaken), who we really are and achieve the "divine plan" of this life on Earth. :nod:

Thanks Dan
The link "Unity Consciousness" that Dan has as a signature is well worth clicking on, probably the best discourse on what God is that I have heard,
Chris

truthseekerdan

9th December 2010, 16:17

Hi Ross,

We are talking here on this thread about transformation or transcendence of ego, which the Wolf analogy does not address correctly.

It looks to me that you are 'not aware' of the duality nature of a human being -- negative lower self, false identity that originates from ego mind and without -- and positive Greater Self that one can connect within the heart to the Divine. IMO, if you understand this not relying on the ego mind to process, the 'wolf picture' will actually make sense...:)

True authentic humans don't have those negative qualities in their hearts that is listed there.

As I mentioned above, it's all in your mind -- not in your heart -- hence the free will to chose between "heart & mind" (freedom of choice).

They simply carry the shadows of dis-incarnate beings around with them until they learn how to cast them away.

This sounds like dogma or new age to me...:ohwell:

A true wolf in Mother Nature doesn't think that way ever as animals (being eternal as we humans are) are as peaceful as any benevolent person on this planet. Just ask the animals. So sorry all, that analogy acts as a negative slant on Mother Nature and doesn't speak to the real truth or help as a valid path to transforming the ego.

It is not about the wolf in the message, animals live in the 'now', and don't have to deal with the ego mind (free will?), but survival instincts. So the analogy was about human duality. Hope this helps...

Namaste ~ Dan

Alaois

10th December 2010, 03:31

Hi trutherseekerdan,

This is all starting to sound too much like semantics to me. I am just going to bow out.

En gassho, Lu

greybeard

10th December 2010, 16:07

Hi trutherseekerdan,

This is all starting to sound too much like semantics to me. I am just going to bow out.

En gassho, Lu

Hi Alaois
Everyone has there own way of expressing, all are valid, all welcome here, as you are.
Regards Chris

Victoria Tintagel

10th December 2010, 22:16

Alaois:
Hi tintagelcave,
You said: < Let's see why evil exists and step up onto the overview platform for a moment.> in your last post. Sorry, I'm not that familiar with this forum to highlight my posts correctly?
I am going to help you to highlight your texts, Alaois, as I was helped not so long ago, by Luke, one of the administrators. After selecting the text, you go to the little "textballoon" symbol in the line of symbols on top of the textpage. It's that easy, succes :)

Alaois:
And, sorry tintagelclave but LOVE does not understand HATE except how to stop it from diminishing LOVE.
Did I say something like this? Can't remember, please explain, Alaois? I do believe that compassionate love understands hate, in a way that it allows it to be and fully expressed.
Regarding karmic laws, who are we to judge on why evil things happen? It's a very emotional issue for many people, often, as our own responsibility jumps forward, when we look at our suffering as someone who causes suffering, instead of being a victim. The murderer and the victim in us are an example of the 2 faces of the wolf, in Truthseekerdan's post here.

This text from the Bible is the most beautiful text I know in that book:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes,
always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Blessed be, Dutchess Tint.

truthseekerdan

10th December 2010, 22:22

Thank you Tint, -- I will only add this statement also spoken by David Icke: "Unconditional Love is the only truth -- everything else is an illusion".

Namaste ~ Dan

greybeard

10th December 2010, 23:22

Thank you Tint, -- I will only add this statement also spoken by David Icke: "Unconditional Love is the only truth -- everything else is an illusion".

Namaste ~ Dan
Thanks Dan and Tint for reminding me of priority.
When I leave this world all that will matter is how loving I have been
Jesus taught Love and forgivness
If I keep the first two commandments everything else falls into place.
No one belongs to me and I belong to no one except God.
Namaste

Ross

10th December 2010, 23:28

When I leave this world all that will matter is how loving I have been

Thank you Chris...If we all made that our priority...well, I need not say more...

Ross

truthseekerdan

15th December 2010, 06:46

Thanks Dan and Tint for reminding me of priority.
When I leave this world all that will matter is how loving I have been
Jesus taught Love and forgivness
If I keep the first two commandments everything else falls into place.
No one belongs to me and I belong to no one except God.
Namaste

Well Chris, my understanding is that we all belong together as One with God (The Source). :love:

W10sbd04Cyw

greybeard

15th December 2010, 10:26

Well Chris, my understanding is that we all belong together as One with God (The Source). :love:

W10sbd04Cyw

Yes and no Dan
Unconditional love is loving to all without exception, there are no favorites, no one is special as such but there are preferences as to who one would want to spend time with.
The ego loves to own to be preferred above others to be special.
To split hairs, you can belong with but not to.
So one belongs together with other humans to That which made us.

Much love Chris

PathWalker

15th December 2010, 12:22

1. I agree unconditional love is important
2. I would like to add a very important distinction between unconditional love and selfless love.

unconditional love:
Love all creation, no matter what the creation/creature is. In this respect Love means treat and feel every creation/creature as one/union/part of the self.
This is extreme challenge to the ego, which is defined by separation and uniqueness. (The #1 logo of the new age religion.)
selfless love:
Love creation/creture and act of love, disregarding the effect on the self/ego - disregarding the effect on the loved and disregarding the effect on the lover-loved relationship. This kind of love identify the separation illusion, and the oneness in creation. A manifestation of selfless love will act on the benefit of the subject . Disregarding the subject feeling/reaction toward the act, and toward the source (god/creator/logos/nature).
Therefore the selfless lover, will not "spoil" the subject and make the out-most effort to keep the subject independent on its spiritual path.

We can find example of selfless love with parents self sacrificing themselves, but this love is very conditional to the offspring.
We can find example of unconditional love with charity organizations, delivering charity to all. Charity givers are in many times coming from the selfish egoistic needs.

greybeard

15th December 2010, 13:47

greybeard

15th December 2010, 14:19

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CHKn6wYoE

¤=[Post Update]=¤

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CHKn6wYoE
Hopefully this time I have it right lol

conk

16th December 2010, 16:22

EGO: Edging God Out.

truthseekerdan

16th December 2010, 16:34

Yes and no Dan
Unconditional love is loving to all without exception, there are no favorites, no one is special as such but there are preferences as to who one would want to spend time with.
The ego loves to own to be preferred above others to be special.
To split hairs, you can belong with but not to.
So one belongs together with other humans to That which made us.

Much love Chris

This is what I found on another blog, and wanted to share here...

"An over active ego believes that power is separation and to establish this dark phantasm in us it must always attack everything and everyone around us. It starts with our daily activities by creating a series of small incremental disconnects and distractions. Eventually it leads us into a series of meaningless rifts in our relationships. Once we are disconnected from what is real, the ego continues to reinforce and substitute everything in our lives with meaningless actions and unnatural reactions.

The ego needs us to believe in it so that it can maintain its primary focus of making us overlook what is true. Once we accept an over active ego’s perception of truth, we embrace error in place of truth. An inflated ego will always seek an audience. If we attend any of its performances, we will have underestimated its power to create chaos in our lives. Again, an inflated ego cannot have power over us unless we believe it has power over us. Our perceptions are created on the foundation of our experiences and our experiences lead us to what we believe. It is not until our beliefs are firmly set that our perceptions are stabilized.

What we believe determines our perceptions. An over active ego has many chameleon characteristics and an endless supply of fragmented or distorted perceptions. It does not reject anything entirely especially if that thing can separate us from truth. The ego knows it has to substitute something that is true with something that is false to dilute what is real. There can only be one reality, and that reality is truth."

shiva777

16th December 2010, 19:18

The mind, the ego, the heart.

They all are part of you as you work on becoming who you truly are.

They all grow with you as you move into the higher awareness and higher levels within your own being.

The mind is there to ask the questions and the questions start to change when your mind grows in awareness.

The ego is still there to give you feedback and questions on the parts of what is really coming from a higher awareness and what is not.

When the ego grows into higher awareness and becomes more aware it will take a different position in what it is there for you to accomplish. The ego is part of your discernment as are the mind and the heart.

The heart needs to grow as well, as it is not used to giving discernment on all levels.

The heart has learned through human experience that there is more than just love, but also learns as it move into higher awareness that its purpose is to discern with love and compassion taking into consideration all that is not love and compassion.

All three of them grow in different ways and learn in different ways.

There is another part within you that is called the observer.

The observer takes the thoughts of the mind, the talk of the ego and the feelings of the heart and brings them to a place of awareness that is within your own being to allow more non-attachment when making choices.

The observer is there to give you the complete picture of the mind, the ego and the heart working together to discern and this is where you can be clearer when making choices.

The observer is not attached to feelings of love or hate.

The observer is just the observer and sees it all as one.

When you are within the physical body you use the mind, you use the ego and you use the heart. You allow the observer within you to guide.

You allow all of them to grow, as you reach further into the awareness of your own being.

Until you reach the moment of oneness that is within your being and all these parts, the mind, the ego, the heart and the observer become one within you.

This moment happens during cosmic ascension, as right now you still need all these parts within your human experience to think, talk, feel and observe.

All these parts of you, the mind, the ego, the heart, will however grow, evolve and become more one as you connect deeper within yourselves with more parts of yourselves and as you allow the observer to take its rightful position among these parts.

Petra Margolis

greybeard

19th December 2010, 13:36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kejN7Py0mFw

Thanks to Dan for this video.
There is a lot of truth in it from a man who has had two NDE's
He believes we are heading for Unity Consciousness and the ego is on the way out.
He says we have to go from mind to heart in order for this to come about as a "personal" event
Well worth watching the video.
Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kejN7Py0mFw

Initiate

19th December 2010, 16:44

Ahkenaten

19th December 2010, 17:45

I think what we call the ego and what the fields of psychology and psychiatry have sliced and diced into many disorders and syndromes tracks back to a major "trauma" or event in human history that resulted in a split in our basic nature. This trauma and results, memorialized in myth and story, one example being the Garden of Eden story - was so horrific, so shocking, so disruptive - that we were literally torn asunder, we became divided unto ourselves in the basic fabric of our being. Thereupon the so-called Ego came forward to intermediate between the divided halves, and ruling through mental processes and the concept of control, helped us to survive the trauma and was the glue that stuck the broken pieces together. This is why the Ego is so resilient and resistant to penetration or disruption of its many processes - the Ego, that is the glue that has held our broken pieces together ruling through the conscious mental processes, believes it is the guardian of our very survival, and no doubt, it has served that purpose very well for thousands of years. The problem with the Ego mechanism is that it may have outlived its usefulness..............................its very resilience and stubborn insistence upon ruling prevents us from getting to the bottom of who and what we are and it is preventing us from healing the wounds deep within us.

timerty

21st December 2010, 04:47

Resolving The Polarized Ego and Karmic Cycles of Discrimination

The concept of Ego is the exaggeration of self-importance that also creates exaggerated discrimination. People with Ego hold the assumption that something is better than the other(he is better than him, Good better than Bad).

Ego is the exaggeration of self-importance caused by the ignorant assumption that a person is worthier than another. People functioning in aggressive ego-driven societies are those who constantly use criteria to discriminate others' ability to fit into such societies and be able to contribute and sustain such polarized societies.

The original concept of Cause and Effect(Karma) was formed by the ignorant discrimination that Good is worthier than Bad, hence leading to the distinction of causes from effects, Good from Bad.

To transcend Ego and Karma(ignorance), one has to resolve the ignorant and superficial assumption that something is better than the other. Everything is unique and has its own place in the Universe, all are necessary. Everything hold unique qualities to fulfill their respective compatible types of function or purpose. When one can perceive this, one will be able to put away bias and hatred and attain sufficient objectivity that leads to peace. This is the state of enlightenment that has transcended Ego and Karmic cycles of discrimination.

People can be trapped in the cycles of Karma(ignorance) leading to endless human incarnations, because their ignorance causes them to continually perceive one thing being better than the other. This is why they have(want) to keep coming back to duality to resolve the ignorance of knowledge that creates this polarized subjective bias.

The fundamental challenge of polarized duality is found in removing the polarized subjective bias that Cause is worthier/lesser than Effect, Good is worthier/lesser than Bad, Masculine(active) is better than Feminine(passive). Those who still heavily distinguish Cause from Effect and believe in a karmic system that rewards Good and punishes Bad are still resolving a polarized subjective bias found in duality. They still hold onto an emotionally polarized perception and are not yet enlightened.

Taken from my Facebook Group,
Know Thyself and Return to Soul: Way of True Ascension & Enlightenment 2012
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=16582554870

Carmody

21st December 2010, 05:18

I'm taming my ego! Soon I will be the most advanced student in the enclave!

meeradas

21st December 2010, 08:22

Who the owner of the ego? Who does it belong to? Is it... "mine"?

It sure can't embrace all-enveloping oneness.

greybeard

21st December 2010, 10:32

I'm taming my ego! Soon I will be the most advanced student in the enclave!

ME TOO Lol

greybeard

21st December 2010, 10:36

Who the owner of the ego? Who does it belong to? Is it... "mine"?

It sure can't embrace all-enveloping oneness.

The ego isent personal it comes with the package of human embodiment.
"Now here this" LOL
We are in human form but we are not human, we are spirit experiencing what it is to be human.
Chris

greybeard

21st December 2010, 10:41

Thanks timerty for posting.
Thanks also to shiva777.
All points of view are welcome here.
Regards to all posters and readers.
If you are new to this concept or the thread please take time to read from page one.
There have been many good and inspiring posts, many gems.
Chris

greybeard

21st December 2010, 11:19

Who the owner of the ego? Who does it belong to? Is it... "mine"?

It sure can't embrace all-enveloping oneness.

Your questions are very good meerdas.

The ego is but a thought, we are identifying with the me story in the head, it a narcissistic love affair.
Its not us but we are responsible for its actions.
As we shine the light of awareness on the ego it begins to dissolve.
The unconscious programs that we operate, or operate us, concepts, belief systems, come into conscious awareness and we start to disassemble them, we can keep what is helpful and life supporting and can let go of that which is not helpful to ourselves and our fellowman.
In other words we have real choice.
Regards Chris

ponda

21st December 2010, 11:50

greybeard

21st December 2010, 12:40

How about the idea of entities such as mind parasites,thought forms,consciousness attachments and other such unseen life forms from say the astral plane or higher dimensions that can attach themselves to our individual consciousness and influence our ego without our being aware of it ? I would imagine that higher planes of consciousness would be filled with exotic types of life,some of which might be able to survive by attaching themselves to us and living off our life force and subtly influencing our thoughts and distorting our perceptions.

Dear ponda
Yes, though I feel more comfortable with the concept of programing.
The lower astral which denies God has a great influence on human actions through the human ego which is very susceptible to all kinds of seduction.
Anything that makes one feel superior or special beyond the norm of taking pride in what you do.
Acts of extreme violence as well.
A normal mother suddenly killing her children and then attempting suicide with no apparent reason.
There have been very good treads talking about the effects of the media, gangster rap, kill your mother rape your sister content.
The lower astral has great influence.
I dont want to go there here ponda.
I tend to try to be solution conscious.
As long as we endeavor to transcend ego all will be well as we will be less and less susceptible to programing of a negative influence.
Chris

ponda

21st December 2010, 12:51

Dear ponda
Yes, though I feel more comfortable with the concept of programing.
The lower astral which denies God has a great influence on human actions through the human ego which is very susceptible to all kinds of seduction.
Anything that makes one feel superior or special beyond the norm of taking pride in what you do.
Acts of extreme violence as well.
A normal mother suddenly killing her children and then attempting suicide with no apparent reason.
There have been very good treads talking about the effects of the media, gangster rap, kill your mother rape your sister content.
The lower astral has great influence.
I dont want to go there here ponda.
I tend to try to be solution conscious.
As long as we endeavor to transcend ego all will be well as we will be less and less susceptible to programing of a negative influence.
Chris

Wise comments greybeard.

I didn't mean to bring a negative tint to the thread but i feel that the only method that the normal person has to combat these attachments/programming is to be mindful of every thought and action.In one sense we can actually become more aware and mindful because of these thought forms.

greybeard

21st December 2010, 13:39

Wise comments greybeard.

I didn't mean to bring a negative tint to the thread but i feel that the only method that the normal person has to combat these attachments/programming is to be mindful of every thought and action.In one sense we can actually become more aware and mindful because of these thought forms.

Dident see your post as anything other than positive ponda.
Yes when you commit to spiritual progress everything that no longer fits you comes up for your attention and letting go of.
I found it best not to even to label it, as that give it more power.
Not head in the sand just a focus of attention on letting go of all that is not your true Self.
Your welcome to post what ever way you see it and whatever works for you.
Chris

greybeard

26th December 2010, 23:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5bXdx5UrE&feature=player_embedded

Nassim Haramein

What I got from this video is.
We are experiencing and sending back that info to the Creator moment by moment.
We also pulse in and out of existence every mili second.
Chris

greybeard

27th December 2010, 14:22

The Nassim video is in line with what the sages have been saying since time began.
Some yogis can bi locate, be in two places at the same time.
Babaji the deathless saint written about by Yogananda would transport his whole group of followers in an instant to another location. Sai Baba materializing what ever he thought of in an instant.
I used to think these were just stories now Im not so sure.

What I get now is that we are here to experience and evolve not to learn as such though thats part of it.
Its as though God knows all these things but being formless can only experience through becoming us.

In India the enlightened ones are also called Godmen, they are truly one with God, they know everything that is in the collective consciousness.
It is beyond language, can only be experienced.
There is only one enlightened being, the many become the One.
All enlightened ones know they are literally the One consciousness.
It seems there are several enlightened teachers but no, they are formless the the concept of one in a body does not arise.
The one assumes many forms.
The enlightened one can truly say "I am the totality all of it".
Not saying I am right but this is my understanding of the moment.
Chris

Rocky_Shorz

27th December 2010, 16:33

The fastest way to get where you are going is by remembering where you began...

Recipe for Christmas All Year Long
Take a heap of child-like wonder
That opens up our eyes
To the unexpected gifts in life--
Each day a sweet surprise.

Mix in fond appreciation
For the people whom we know;
Like festive Christmas candles,
Each one has a special glow.
Add some giggles and some laughter,
A dash of Christmas food,
(Amazing how a piece of pie
Improves our attitude!)
Stir it all with human kindness;
Wrap it up in love and peace,
Decorate with optimism, and
Our joy will never cease.
If we use this healthy recipe,
We know we will remember
To be in the Christmas spirit,
Even when it's not December.
By Joanna Fuchs

greybeard

1st January 2011, 21:25

Ego busting prayer*

Beloved God

I ask to be the servant of the Lord.
A vehicle of Divine love.
A channel of Your Divine Will.*

I ask for direction and Divine assistance.
I surrender all personal will through my devotion for you.*

I dedicate my life to the service of You beloved God.*
I choose love and peace above all other options.*
I Commit to the goal of unconditional love and compassion for all life, in all its expressions, and surrender all judgment to You beloved God.”

truthseekerdan

3rd January 2011, 06:00

The human mind has the power to cleanse itself of any false beliefs including any delusions created by the ego. Our skills that allow us to see a coherent outcome depend on our disposition to see it, but its truth has nothing to do with our disposition. When we find ourselves confused about this distinction in our motivation, it can only be due to our confusion in motivation. Given the basis of this confusion, trust is now out of the question. The only way out of an error is to make the decision not to decide anything at all.

The world we perceive and experience has many layers of difficulty. However, the world is filled with recognizable patterns if we allow ourselves to see the light of truth within the patterns that continually appear before us. The distractions of the ego are distractions we approve for the ego. The ego has no power unless we give it power. The ego has no expertise except the illusion of separation and confusion. The ego does not understand anything except the illusion of separation and confusion. The ego by itself cannot provide a reasonable solution to any problem. The ego is in control only if we alone allow it to be in control.

greybeard

5th January 2011, 20:55

If you are new to the forum welcome.
Please take time to explore this thread fully from the first page.
There is an enormous amount to valuable posts from many contributors.
The need to transcend the ego gets more important by the day as we approach Dec 2012.
The reason for this thread will become more apparent as it is explored.
Spiritual progress made now by the individual benefits the whole human race --- collective consciousness.
Happy reading
Chris
Namaste

Kulapops

5th January 2011, 21:23

greybeard

5th January 2011, 23:15

Thanks to all for your comments on this page... very worthwhile reading.
I especially am interested by ponda's notions that other entities or beings can 'fiddle' with our basic natures. I'm sure there are many things that humans do that we look on at and go , ' surely not?' It's hard to fathom an individual performing such actions. Possession of one form or another is surely not an excuse for terrible human behaviour towards others, but may offer some explanation for terrible degeneration of character, particulalry in those who dabble with channeling and other 'outreaching' to other places, when they are not really sure with what they are connecting. And even then, who is to say, they are truly aware of all interactions taking place within their psyche?

For me personally, God (or the Creator, or the Divine/Highest Good) is a fairly safe bet, if you're going to 'talk' to anyone... outside of that I'm sure it's hard to be entirely certain what is being interacted with or invited...

K

Thanks Kulapops for your shrewd post.
The ego is full hardy and easy led.
A classic statement is "I wont be affected by X)
Oh yeah!!!! then why to advertisers spend millions on video clips only lasting moments?
Because they influence the public.
The average male teenager has killed 50 thousand times by the age of 18 in video games.
These games are training our children how to be assassins/ killers with disasterous results.
Space repetition ie seeing hearing or doing something repeatedly, affects greatly our responses to any given situation, very powerful.
So K my friend you are right, some places, astral travel, some but not all channeling, best avoided.
All true spiritual teachers warn against wolves in sheep's clothing, seductive so called spiritual secrets/power from other realms.
All we need to know about the inner path has been taught by the mystics on this earth.
The inner path is finding God within, the realm and path of the Mystic.

Happy New Year Kula my friend
Chris

greybeard

8th January 2011, 13:53

The ultimate goal of life for humans on this planet is enlightenment, if we are to believe Krishna, The Buddha and Christ ( "I am one with the Father, The Father is within me and I am within the Father")
I believe that.
This planet is the University of Consciousness
We are here to know what we are.
It may well be that this is going to happen fairly soon with all the solar activity bringing this to fruition.
Christ consciousness is the same thing.
What can we do to help this happen?
Be unconditional love to the best of our ability.
Chris

greybeard

9th January 2011, 22:51

Watching The Flowering of Human Consciousness a video by Eckhart Tolle.
I find it very helpful to watch videos with this kind of content and high spiritual energy.
This kind of material is like a battery charge.
This world has a very dense energy, a lot of fear and negativity which we have to rise above.
We are trapped in an egoic sense of who we are.
The story in the head.
It takes spiritual energy to rise above this.
Chris
Namaste

greybeard

10th January 2011, 20:46

Thanks to all who visit this thread.
Over 13000 now
Please feel free to ask questions or answer them.
Please understand the concept of non-duality, its very important NOW.
Its like a sliding scale 100% - 0%
Darkness not the opposite of light but the absence of it
Very bright diminishing to dim to non existent.
You can shine even a dim light but you cant shine darkness.

There are no opposites but polarity exists.
We have male and female but they are not opposites.
Nothing is causing anything to happen.
Everything acts according to its potential.
There may be a catalyst and there are consequences for every action but you cant predict the end result for sure.

I would like to put these thoughts out for consideration.

Not saying its so but a way of looking at it

God is all knowing but being formless has no way of experiencing.
God becomes all of life in form to experience what he knows
We embody on Earth and in order to experience.
The knowledge that we are one is temporarily removed.
The ego has that function, it i a separation device and it is the experiencer.

It has to seem real in order for the experience to be valid.

Over the many years/generations of humans the experience of every word thought and deed is recorded in a data base called the field of consciousness (its collective)
Its what we are.

At first fear of death was needed via the ego in order to survive as we lacked knowledge of what was life supporting or threatening.
There was also a learning process an evolution of consciousness, some actually became enlightened to set out a path for the rest of us.

The enlightened ones have access to the data bank of consciousness that is why they can say they are the totality all of it.

Because of the size of the data base and the scope of the experiences the ego experience is becoming progressively redundant.
Fear is no longer necessary but love is.

Examples
Once you know the iron is hot you dont have to personally burn yourself to experience that.
You know that you dont walk in front of cars, you dont need fear to tell you its not safe, you know know what is life supporting and what is not.
You dont have to reinvent the wheel
If you dont personally know the universal conscience does and you are part of that.
You dont personally have to experience everything it done for you
Not a hair on your head goes uncounted
Not a sparrow falls unnoticed

So now it seems that there is a chance of the human race moving into non-duality, unity consciousness, enlightenment Christ consciousness, call it what you will.

What can you do personally?
Be positive
Do your best to be forgiving, practice unconditional love, get out of blaming, judgmental ism etc.
Be kind to all life including your own no matter what.

Chris
Namaste ( I greet the God within you)