Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[truthseekerdan]

I've found these video series interesting to post here, Chris...:)

Be Love. Your are an Infinite Consciousness Self. :love:

Part A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSyOxNGpBY)
9wSyOxNGpBY

Part B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwLOj2D7mtg)
GwLOj2D7mtg

[greybeard]

thanks Dan Downloading to watch.
Love is all there is.
C

[greybeard]

Warning

When you commit to the path of enlightenment your Higher Self is very happy.
Your spiritual intention gives that part of you permission to do as it will to bring you to the knowledge of that state of Oneness.
It is said that your Higher Self would throw off a cliff to bring this about.
The caterpillar becomes the butterfly, the process is not without pain.

Divine madness can occur, the magnificent obsession drives you on.

You start to see things entirely differently, compassion is strong but its more for the fact that the person shown compassion believes in an illusion.

You fail to take things seriously that other think of paramount importance.

Your friends and family think you have lost it as once upon a time you were a go getter and liked to acquire material things and worked hard to be successful and now you are content with very little, hardly watch TV and dont have a car.
There is a non attachment to things people come and go but there is no sense of loss.
People die even those quite close and the grief process is very short.
There is an acceptance of what appears in the moment.
Rigorously held points of view are no longer held on to.
There is an awareness of the essence of things rather than detail.
Fear goes.
Death of self is of no consequence.
People find you boring.

There is a profound sense of peace and love for all but there is discrimination as to how that love expresses itself.

There is more but that will do for a start.

Its worth it.You take a 10 steps towards God He takes a 100 towards you.
You will experience the bliss of God



C
Namaste

[greybeard]

On another thread the Will is spoken off, also evolution.
No evolution without the Creator.
The Creator is involved every moment in His creation
The soul did not create it self.

So the question is
What of the will of God?
He does not interfere or intervene unless we sincerely ask.

So controllers and ETs could they have made the whole Universe and all of Space?
Is there Higher authority?
Please think on this for yourself
Chris
Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Fear is what makes exceptions to separate or disconnect us from other minds. Our mind is so strong that we have the strength to look into another mind and see that both are the same. United, minds love. Separated, minds cannot love. Love is everything. Ego alone is nothing. Love has no conditions. Ego is diluted with conditions. No one who has love wants an unchecked ego for an unchecked ego represents delusion. If truth is complete, then untruth cannot exist and reality cannot be unreal. As long as we have fear, we cannot love. As long as we have anger, we cannot love. As long as we have a self-seeking inflated ego, we cannot love. To receive love, we must first give love. To learn to love others, we must first accept and love our self. The only thing that can separate us from love is untruth. The only thing that can separate us from untruth is our self.

Namaste ~ Dan

[greybeard]

Aint this great?

A man knocked on a door. "Who is there?" asked God.
"Me", replied the man. "Go away then" said God.
The man left and wandered in the arid desert until he
realized his error and returned to the door.
He knocked again. "Who's there?" asked God.
"You", answered the man. "Then come in", replied God.
"There's no room here for two."

(sufi teaching story)

[The HoppyBunny]

I agree, with your, views, so much, that I have to say.... Thank you for Sharing! :o

[greybeard]

This is pasted from a post by RedeZra in old Avalon
I thought It was great and worth putting here.
Chris







the notion of I will always have a place somewhere in the worlds


when the notion of I is gone

the worlds are gone with it


when there is no trace of I left

then there is only

Being Aware in Bliss


there are of course levels of understanding and illumination

but the Light is One


who is to say

who is Enlightened or not

who is to Judge


the Light Knows

[Beren]

Bless the illusion ,bless the ego. Bow down and say thank you my friends,
for you made me show of who I really am.

Thank you illusion for you showed me endless playgrounds in realities.
Thank you for because of you I put forth of who I am.
Child of God and one with him.

Thank you ego for you showed me of what I am built for.
Thank you for because of you I showed my true pride of being who I am
Child of God and one with him.

[Oliver]

Hello, Greybeard,

Good to see you still active with your thread.
Great sufi wisdom, my friend.

Greetings,


Aint this great?

A man knocked on a door. "Who is there?" asked God.
"Me", replied the man. "Go away then" said God.
The man left and wandered in the arid desert until he
realized his error and returned to the door.
He knocked again. "Who's there?" asked God.
"You", answered the man. "Then come in", replied God.
"There's no room here for two."

(sufi teaching story)

[greybeard]

Hello, Greybeard,

Good to see you still active with your thread.
Great sufi wisdom, my friend.

Greetings,

Great to see your here old friend, draw up a chair.
Chris

[Oliver]

Thanks Chris,

Sufi teachings cultivate ego in a great way. Sufi can freely enter every other religion's temple, and accept the rituals without pretending their ones are best or only acceptable for them. I found this a great and wise manifestation of ego-free behavior. Probably the worst ego-stimulating approaches are collective ones -- nation's ego, religion's ego, etc. A sufi can everywhere find his essence - the heartthinking. "Say I am you", says Rumi.

Respect


Great to see your here old friend, draw up a chair.
Chris

[greybeard]

How do you know if you are making progress in transcending the ego?

The ego is a nosy attention seeking animal.

so you can measure the degree of progress by the amount of silence in the mind.
The more silence the more peace and tranquility.
The mind then is much more clear and is sharp when you need to process something.
There is a higher quality.
Judgment of others and situations decrease, there is an acceptance.
It is as it is, if action is required it will be quality action and effective.

The mind becomes more silent through meditation and surrendering personal will to God,

It is easy to get pulled out of the NOW and into the hypothetical, the what if.
Eventually that is countered by "So what!!!!" or "I dont mind what happens" a famous statement by Krishna Murthy (cant spell)
When you dont mind marvelous things happen, action happens but there is no concern for out come, Its out with our control anyway. We can give it our best shot but thats all we can do. ego will try and force an out come, a sure way to friction and misery.

Eckhart says "There are two ways of becoming unhappy,
One --------not getting what you want
Two -----------getting what you want"

[Rocky_Shorz]

off topic GB but a quick question...

did street lights start blinking off when you reach K or did it start before?

[Banshee]

Eckhart says "There are two ways of becoming unhappy,
One --------not getting what you want
Two -----------getting what you want"

Thank you for reminding me Chris. Some of the best things that have ever happened to my ego resulted from disappointment, or "not getting what i wanted".

[9eagle9]

Noisy too. I didn't realize how much internal noise I had going on. I thought it was thinking but it wasn't productive thought.



How do you know if you are making progress in transcending the ego?

The ego is a nosy attention seeking animal.

so you can measure the degree of progress by the amount of silence in the mind.
The more silence the more peace and tranquility.
The mind then is much more clear and is sharp when you need to process something.
There is a higher quality.
Judgment of others and situations decrease, there is an acceptance.
It is as it is, if action is required it will be quality action and effective.

The mind becomes more silent through meditation and surrendering personal will to God,

It is easy to get pulled out of the NOW and into the hypothetical, the what if.
Eventually that is countered by "So what!!!!" or "I dont mind what happens" a famous statement by Krishna Murthy (cant spell)
When you dont mind marvelous things happen, action happens but there is no concern for out come, Its out with our control anyway. We can give it our best shot but thats all we can do. ego will try and force an out come, a sure way to friction and misery.

Eckhart says "There are two ways of becoming unhappy,
One --------not getting what you want
Two -----------getting what you want"

[greybeard]

off topic GB but a quick question...

did street lights start blinking off when you reach K or did it start before?

Hi Rocky
That one did not happen for me, but it is part of it for some.
It takes many forms but if the lights are doing that your K is awake.
I think K awakens and it can be so subtle that you are unaware at first in that there are no internal symptoms.
Sycronicity may happen before you are aware. Parking space materializes, traffic lights are all green, you meet old friends in almost the sequence you first met them all the way back to child hood.
its all very strange.
What is important is that your nervous system is being rewired to take a higher spiritual energy.
The Indian teaching is that you will be enlightened in this life time if K is awake.
What I think is very positive is that quite a few are now going through this process I suspect this will help to see us through coming changes.
Those with full K awakening might be the the teachers of the future..
Just a feeling.
Chris

[Rocky_Shorz]

well all of the above is happening, I just thank my angles for clearing my path...

I go for walks in the evening and blink out the lights from glowing too much for light sensors, but now I'm watching them blink out from 100 yards away...

I was just wondering if it was something you are experiencing too...

[greybeard]

The ego loves to make all kinds of assumptions with little or no evidence.
This Month began here with snow in fact Inverness was cut of for two days the roads being blocked.
Today the sun shone and it was warm enough to sit out in the garden.
Now the ego would like to relate the variances in the weather to signs of the end times, the prophecies being fulfilled.
Well the weather is the weather just doing what it does.
4 seasons in one day as the song goes.
No doubt that climate is changing, the gulf stream is slowing and that could be a precursor to an ice age. All that can be said is that there are cycles and we are in one though which one who knows.
The ego would love to make doom and gloom of it --- drama drama drama.
Or yes we are heading for ascension and all the signs are there -- different drama drama drama.
The ego finds the present moment boring --it lives on "Whats next?"
Life can only be lived NOW.
The ego totally misses the point.
It is in acquisition mode or fear of loss.
Never content, always anxious, except for very brief periods when there is a new acquisition, then that dident make me happy it was supposed to, whats next?.
Where the next moment it was supposed to be here by now?
It wants to be a bigger stronger "me" then it will feel safe, of course enough is never enough. It may relax for a short while savoring a major or minor triumph an inquisition then the cycle repeats. Back to needing, wanting or fear of loss.
People are so driven to get no matter what.
Ambition is healthy, obsession is something else.
Being driven leads to "The end justifies the means"
Heaven help any one that stands in the way of the ego getting what it wants.
So there!!!
Thats my thought for today.
Love
Ch

[1love]

i feel like ego is a part of survival and so it appeals to the physical senses as well as emotional. As we know from studying various sacred texts, they are both good and bad spectrums to both physical and emotional sensations. I think the problem comes in when the negative aspects of these senses are over compensated. Society has bread us to cater more towards the negative and selfish aspects of these responses with consumerism in replace of citizenry and lust in the place of love. If anyone ever gets a chance please watch Century of the Self and it paints a pretty good picture of how our ego has been marketed to since the days of Freud by his nephew William Burmese.

Ego-loss can definately be experienced through meditation and the use of natural substances such as mushrooms. I'm not a drug advocate but when respected you must think of why Source put these plants here. Some people don't need these natural remedies and them some need them to realize there is something outside of themselves and there is potential for growth in areas they never thought were possible.

When I think of Ego, I think of when I was a child and how if I never turned on a tv, or if I never went to a toy store, or went to public school or private school that maybe Ego wouldn't be such a problem. Even considering those factors, as a child we just have fun, imagine, and are in wonder of the world around us. As children, we don't understand limits and are taught we can't do this or that.

[9eagle9]

There's a physical ego that we depend on for survival, related to flight or fight mechanism.

The ego most people attempt to work on is in the spiritual arena and how it relates to fear, or otherwise prevents us from seeing and experiencing who and what we really are. It holds a state of woundedness to use against us that really keep us from full potential and spiritual experience. I mean I still have my little ego enjoyments, but they don't rule my life like they used to. Rule is an inaccurate world. They drove my life. . Like Materialism, nice to have things but I used to be driven by them because I was taught there was a standard in life to live up to. Once i realized that standard wasn't mine the' guilt over lack' went away and the' guilt over having' went away. People like to criticize me as being non spiritual because I have a lot of 'things' . But the thing is I didn't put those things there, they just came to me..if one understands what I mean.

I seen something interesting the other night. This woman was relating to me everything that she had learned about acceptance . When I first met her, she had no home, bad health that she can't afford to have treated, no dependable means of income, little in the way of family or friends to support her. What little income she has she hoards because says every time she got ahead a little the floor would fall out from under her. So she started practicing acceptance. She related to me that she used to feel very distraught that her base living existence was so miserable but she feels calmer now that she has reached a place of acceptance. Her perception shifted she said.

It didn't really, because nothing else did. She just accepts that she is not even entitled to the basest of existence. And that is an ego trick. A fear trick based in guilt. And underneath it all she was miserable but forcing this 'thought' of acceptance as a means of winning favor. She was afraid to express discontent in case God thought badly of her for being selfish. I was amazed at the intricacy of the ego that would expect anyone to feel grateful for that sort of existence. Old core belief me thinks because she came from the same religious back ground that I did that taught the doctrine of "God will punish you if you are not happy with your life."

And I realized what an ego trap acceptance was as well if its not fully understood. Her ego had latched on to that notion that she should be accepting of her life condition to hold her there. She thinks she's being spiritual ...or rather wholesome.... was the word she used.But acceptance should really mean non resistance, not stagnancy, and it should create positive changes for one's self. As someone said to me you can have the comfortable illusion or the uncomfortable illusion, don't matter.

[greybeard]

There's a physical ego that we depend on for survival, related to flight or fight mechanism.

The ego most people attempt to work on is in the spiritual arena and how it relates to fear, or otherwise prevents us from seeing and experiencing who and what we really are. It holds a state of woundedness to use against us that really keep us from full potential and spiritual experience. I mean I still have my little ego enjoyments, but they don't rule my life like they used to. Rule is an inaccurate world. They drove my life. . Like Materialism, nice to have things but I used to be driven by them because I was taught there was a standard in life to live up to. Once i realized that standard wasn't mine the' guilt over lack' went away and the' guilt over having' went away. People like to criticize me as being non spiritual because I have a lot of 'things' . But the thing is I didn't put those things there, they just came to me..if one understands what I mean.

I seen something interesting the other night. This woman was relating to me everything that she had learned about acceptance . When I first met her, she had no home, bad health that she can't afford to have treated, no dependable means of income, little in the way of family or friends to support her. What little income she has she hoards because says every time she got ahead a little the floor would fall out from under her. So she started practicing acceptance. She related to me that she used to feel very distraught that her base living existence was so miserable but she feels calmer now that she has reached a place of acceptance. Her perception shifted she said.

It didn't really, because nothing else did. She just accepts that she is not even entitled to the basest of existence. And that is an ego trick. A fear trick based in guilt. And underneath it all she was miserable but forcing this 'thought' of acceptance as a means of winning favor. She was afraid to express discontent in case God thought badly of her for being selfish. I was amazed at the intricacy of the ego that would expect anyone to feel grateful for that sort of existence. Old core belief me thinks because she came from the same religious back ground that I did that taught the doctrine of "God will punish you if you are not happy with your life."

And I realized what an ego trap acceptance was as well if its not fully understood. Her ego had latched on to that notion that she should be accepting of her life condition to hold her there. She thinks she's being spiritual ...or rather wholesome.... was the word she used.But acceptance should really mean non resistance, not stagnancy, and it should create positive changes for one's self. As someone said to me you can have the comfortable illusion or the uncomfortable illusion, don't matter.

9eagle9 very perceptive.
There is a lot in your post.
Thanks

[greybeard]

*
SAMADHI


Vanished the veils of light and shade,
Lifted every vapor of sorrow,
Sailed away all dawns of fleeting joy,
Gone the dim sensory mirage.
Love, hate, health, disease, life, death,
Perished these false shadows on the screen of duality.
Waves of laughter, scyllas of sarcasm, melancholic whirlpools,
Melting in the vast sea of bliss.
The storm of maya stilled
By magic wand of intuition deep.
The universe, forgotten dream, subconsciously lurks,
Ready to invade my newly wakened memory divine.
I live without the cosmic shadow,
But it is not, bereft of me;
As the sea exists without the waves,
But they breathe not without the sea.
Dreams, wakings, states of deep turiya sleep,
Present, past, future, no more for me,
But ever-present, all-flowing I, I, everywhere.
Planets, stars, stardust, earth,
Volcanic bursts of doomsday cataclysms,
Creation's molding furnace,
Glaciers of silent x-rays, burning electron floods,
Thoughts of all men, past, present, to come,
Every blade of grass, myself, mankind,
Each particle of universal dust,
Anger, greed, good, bad, salvation, lust,
I swallowed, transmuted all
Into a vast ocean of blood of my own one Being!
Smoldering joy, oft-puffed by meditation
Blinding my tearful eyes,
Burst into immortal flames of bliss,
Consumed my tears, my frame, my all.
Thou art I, I am Thou,
Knowing, Knower, Known, as One!
Tranquilled, unbroken thrill, eternally living, ever new peace!
Enjoyable beyond imagination of expectancy, samadhi bliss!
Not a mental chloroform
Or unconscious state without wilful return,
Samadhi but extends my conscious realm
Beyond the limits of the mortal frame
To farthest boundary of eternity
Where I, the Cosmic Sea,
Watch the little ego floating in me.
The sparrow, each grain of sand, fall not without my sight.
All space like an iceberg floats within my mental sea.
Colossal Container, I, of all things made.
By deeper, longer, thirsty, guru-given meditation
Comes this celestial samadhi
Mobile murmurs of atoms are heard,
The dark earth, mountains, vales, lo! molten liquid!
Flowing seas change into vapors of nebulae!
Aum blows upon the vapors, opening wondrously their veils,
Oceans stand revealed, shining electrons,
Till, at last sound of the cosmic drum,
Vanish the grosser lights into eternal rays
Of all-pervading bliss.
From joy I came, for joy I live, in sacred joy I melt.
Ocean of mind, I drink all creation's waves.
Four veils of solid, liquid, vapor, light,
Lift aright.
Myself, in everything, enters the Great Myself.
Gone forever, fitful, flickering shadows of mortal memory.
Spotless is my mental sky, below, ahead, and high above.
Eternity and I, one united ray.
A tiny bubble of laughter, I
Am become the Sea of Mirth Itself

By Paramahansa Yogananda*

[truthseekerdan]

"Mind communicates via thought. It never stops thinking. Humans are addicted to
thinking because they are addicted to Mind and believe that this is who they are. In
turn, the thoughts become emotions, the body-mind reaction to thought, and so humans
are addicted to emotion, too. You don't even have to experience something directly to
trigger an emotional response; you just have to think about it. We live in a Mind-made
world, full of Mind-made people, and so the Mind is God: 'He's got a great mind'; 'She
has an incredible mind'; 'What a brilliant mind'.

The Mind is everything in a Mind-made reality and that's why the intellect is a focus
of worship in what we call the modem world. Being an 'intellectual' or an 'academic'
is confirmation, according to our distorted understanding, that you are 'clever'.
Well, it depends what you mean by clever. The dictionary definition is: 'mentally quick
and original; bright'. Mentally quick, okay, but that's the role of Mind, to work things out
through thought. Original? Not true. Originality comes from Consciousness, not Mind.
Bright? Again, what is meant by 'bright'? If it means the ability to hold lots of facts in
the memory and pour them forth at will, well that's just Mind again.

What we call 'cleverness' comes from Mind, while wisdom comes from Consciousness and,
as I have been saying for years, cleverness without wisdom is the most destructive force on earth.
For example, it is very clever to build an atomic bomb, but it is not wise to do so.
We have lots of clever people, but not many wise ones, and that's because the perception
of humanity is dominated by Mind, the computer-like conduit and not the true self."

Excerpt from: Human Race Get Off Your Knees by David Icke

[greybeard]

”What the ego cannot lift with all its might is like a feather to the Grace of God.” (Transcending the Levels of Consciousness, p. 56) David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D.

“Straight and narrow is the path…Waste no time.”--- Dr. David R. Hawkins

C

[greybeard]

David Icke quotes Ramana my avatar on his latest talk.
David is confirming what enlightened sages have been saying since time began.
They used language relevant to their time, David Icke uses language that we understand.
Its a video well worth down loading thanks to the gentle man who placed it on the forum.
Consciousness is what we are.
We are formless and we create form via our mind and change the illusion, energy condensed into form, just by observing.
Thoughts rule the world Lol
ch
Chris

[joedjemal]

The mystic is in a no-mind state, there is no thought process just pure awareness. They just know that which supports life so there is no need for duality.
In a no mind state there is no desire so no need to create. Creation happens of its own potential
Nothing is causing anything else to happen
Causality is a an illusion of the ego
chris

Got to that point about 7 years ago. Half the time I'm trying to work out what it's saying to me, cascades of 3d video snippets. Can get quite confusing sometimes, how do you get access to the library I keep hearing about.

Everything seems to be in symbols

[greybeard]

Knowing about and being are two different things.
There are always people in our time who have had ignorance removed,
Im talking about full enlightenment, not to be confused with awakening.
You might have an aha moment or two but thats still about and within the illusion.
Being enlightened is totally free of illusion.
Its a different state, the catterpillar has become the butterfly its an entirely different view of the "world"

I know of two for sure that are enlightened Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins, no doubt there are many others.
Eckhart is more user friendly. Hawkins goes to great depth in books like "The Eye of the Eye" or "I" and Discover the presence of God/Devotional non-duality.
Just depends what you are ready to tune into.
Failing that
Hawkins was asked "Do we need all this information?" answer "No, just make an intention to be kind to all life including your own no matter what"
So there you have it.
Please read from the start of this thread if you are really interested in spiritual growth, just one of the many places that information has to be found.
To be clear every thing I know is second hand so in this thread is my understanding due to years of reading.

I wanted to know about enlightenment so I read every book I could find by those who are in that state.
Not saying Im right though.
Happy reading Chris

[joedjemal]

Read every word of it, agree with most of it, if I seem a bit brusque at times it's the aspie bit showing.

I spend up to half my time in inner silence but I don't claim to be enlightened. If I get to the point when I can teleport I'll be closer. My brain is pretty hard wired to be logical but there's more available in the silence that lets me transcend it to some extent. I did the being everything at once thing for a few minutes but while it was amazing at first it got pretty dreadful when it became obvious there were no surprises. It was horrible, too much.

I don't know what I want to become, we'll see but I came here to see if there were a possibilty of a better outcome for the people around me.

I'm pretty much hard wired to tell the truth as I see it so I can sound boastful and full of ego sometimes even when that is not at all what I was thinking about. What I state are facts as I see them not imagining what they might make people think.

The ego is an aspect of me, I try and keep it within certain bounds and it certainly doesn't dominate, the inner world is far too interesting to allow that. But I'm also aware that despite its illusory nature, what we do in what we regard as reality matters in my opinion. There's too much bloomin suffering about.

[greybeard]

Read every word of it, agree with most of it, if I seem a bit brusque at times it's the aspie bit showing.

I spend up to half my time in inner silence but I don't claim to be enlightened. If I get to the point when I can teleport I'll be closer. My brain is pretty hard wired to be logical but there's more available in the silence that lets me transcend it to some extent. I did the being everything at once thing for a few minutes but while it was amazing at first it got pretty dreadful when it became obvious there were no surprises. It was horrible, too much.

I don't know what I want to become, we'll see but I came here to see if there were a possibilty of a better outcome for the people around me.

I'm pretty much hard wired to tell the truth as I see it so I can sound boastful and full of ego sometimes even when that is not at all what I was thinking about. What I state are facts as I see them not imagining what they might make people think.

The ego is an aspect of me, I try and keep it within certain bounds and it certainly doesn't dominate, the inner world is far too interesting to allow that. But I'm also aware that despite its illusory nature, what we do in what we regard as reality matters in my opinion. There's too much bloomin suffering about.


Thanks for sharing often im in a similar place.

Dr Hawkins could have left this planet be he remains devoted to the raising odf consciousness and the relief of human suffering.
His life story is amazing. He became n atheist when the suffering of the human race since time began was reveled to him. He could not believe in God who cause this. He continued in the pursuit of truth and became a Dr to help relieve human suffering. He realized many years later he was wrong, the human ego created the problems.
Have a look at this.
Also about on the web site.

Regards Chris
http://www.veritaspub.com/product_info.php?cPath=47_48&products_id=147

[ponda]

There's a physical ego that we depend on for survival, related to flight or fight mechanism.

The ego most people attempt to work on is in the spiritual arena and how it relates to fear, or otherwise prevents us from seeing and experiencing who and what we really are. It holds a state of woundedness to use against us that really keep us from full potential and spiritual experience. I mean I still have my little ego enjoyments, but they don't rule my life like they used to. Rule is an inaccurate world. They drove my life. . Like Materialism, nice to have things but I used to be driven by them because I was taught there was a standard in life to live up to. Once i realized that standard wasn't mine the' guilt over lack' went away and the' guilt over having' went away. People like to criticize me as being non spiritual because I have a lot of 'things' . But the thing is I didn't put those things there, they just came to me..if one understands what I mean.

I seen something interesting the other night. This woman was relating to me everything that she had learned about acceptance . When I first met her, she had no home, bad health that she can't afford to have treated, no dependable means of income, little in the way of family or friends to support her. What little income she has she hoards because says every time she got ahead a little the floor would fall out from under her. So she started practicing acceptance. She related to me that she used to feel very distraught that her base living existence was so miserable but she feels calmer now that she has reached a place of acceptance. Her perception shifted she said.

It didn't really, because nothing else did. She just accepts that she is not even entitled to the basest of existence. And that is an ego trick. A fear trick based in guilt. And underneath it all she was miserable but forcing this 'thought' of acceptance as a means of winning favor. She was afraid to express discontent in case God thought badly of her for being selfish. I was amazed at the intricacy of the ego that would expect anyone to feel grateful for that sort of existence. Old core belief me thinks because she came from the same religious back ground that I did that taught the doctrine of "God will punish you if you are not happy with your life."

And I realized what an ego trap acceptance was as well if its not fully understood. Her ego had latched on to that notion that she should be accepting of her life condition to hold her there. She thinks she's being spiritual ...or rather wholesome.... was the word she used.But acceptance should really mean non resistance, not stagnancy, and it should create positive changes for one's self. As someone said to me you can have the comfortable illusion or the uncomfortable illusion, don't matter.

Very interesting story eagle.

It reminds me of a fellow i met in India a while back.

I was in the Himalayan foothill town of Darjeeling for a few days.I used to go down to the mall area of town every day and sit on the park benches down there and soak up the sun with the crowds of Indian holiday makers.

On this one particular day i sat down next to a chap who appeared to be some type of beggar or lower caste person.He was dressed tidily and was clean but it appeared to me that he was doing it a bit tough.We immediately got to talking and started to tell each other some of our stories etc.He was extremely well spoken in English and sounded well educated.I told him about myself, my working life and family ties etc and then he began to tell me some of his story.

He told me that he used to have a wife,children,home and decent job in Gujarat which is one of the richest states in India.

He then proceeded to tell me what happened to himself and how he came to be in Darjeeling.He said that he had a comfortable happy life and then one day there was a very large earthquake and he lost everything including his entire family,his home and his business.He said that he was overcome with indescribable grief and was contemplating suicide.Just as he was at his lowest ebb he said he had a sudden impulse that came from out of nowhere.He decided to relinquish all material possessions and become a wandering Sadhu.

A sadhu is a type of mystic or ascetic or wandering monk.

His newfound lifestyle now had him wandering around India often from one holy festival to the next and up into the mountains in the hot season and down onto the plains in winter.His only possessions were a small steel pot for cooking and a change of clothes.He ate only food that was given to him and sometimes performed special holy rituals for free.

I was extremely humbled after our conversation and it is an interesting,sad but uplifting memory from my time there.

[greybeard]

The reptilian brain according to David Icke is the ego and we are controlled through that by the reptilian element. The controllers.
All about fear of not surviving.
So while Im not fond of a lot of Ickes terminology, the parallel is clear, in order to know reality we have to transcend ego.
In order to be free of fear, to be our fullness, to know what we are. We need to explore spirituality.
The controllers are terrified of spirituality.
When you know that you are not the body, when you are truly enlightened, what is there to fear?
You are immortal. You are Divinity having a human experience.
We spend how much time on the Internet how much time watching TV?
How much time do we spend on discovering what we are?
The internal search?

Search ye first the Kingdom of Heaven. and this too shall be added unto you.

Jesus said the Father is within me and I am within the Father.

We are One with Creator. The waves of the Divine Ocean.
Are our priorities right.

Give Charles full credit he says big print, Stop watching TV
It is programing you. You are being "framed" second by second.
Buying into the story those who want to control you feed you.
They want you to take up opposing positions. They want you at "war" with everyone you meet who dosent share your point of view. They feed your ego.
Virtually every advert says "Buy our product and you will be special".
Specialness is the last resort of the ego.
Specialness separates,the Im better than you = judgmental state at full speed ahead.
Yes we are unique but equal.

Regards Chris

[greybeard]

Every word carries baggage a history.
It is almost impossible to see anything fresh and new as it really is.
The ego needs past to exist.

When I did therapy I would ask some clients what the word dog meant to them.
Just one word---dog.
To some it brought up a strong fear reaction.
Others love. followed by Rover stories.
and a few were indifferent,
So you can see the difficulty in communicating with the other.
There is a quote. "Hell is the other"
So often we are sure we are expressing clearly only to find our intention etc is being mis-understood.
In order to have a clear understanding of the content of a communication, the context must be clear, that is what gives meaning to content.

The ego loves to miss-understand and be quarrelsome.

In relationships a common ego statement is.
"But you promised." normal implying. You promised to make me happy and you dident.
or "You said."

Eckhart Tolle wrote in "The Power of Now"
"Relationships are not there to make you happy at this time but to dissolve your ego. You will learn more from three failed relationships than three years spent on a dessert Island" The context being that you are looking for spiritual growth.
Namaste
Chris

[joedjemal]

Every word carries baggage a history.
It is almost impossible to see anything fresh and new as it really is.
The ego needs past to exist.

When I did therapy I would ask some clients what the word dog meant to them.
Just one word---dog.
To some it brought up a strong fear reaction.
Others love. followed by Rover stories.
and a few were indifferent,
So you can see the difficulty in communicating with the other.
There is a quote. "Hell is the other"
So often we are sure we are expressing clearly only to find our intention etc is being mis-understood.
In order to have a clear understanding of the content of a communication, the context must be clear, that is what gives meaning to content.

The ego loves to miss-understand and be quarrelsome.

In relationships a common ego statement is.
"But you promised." normal implying. You promised to make me happy and you dident.
or "You said."

Eckhart Tolle wrote in "The Power of Now"
"Relationships are not there to make you happy at this time but to dissolve your ego. You will learn more from three failed relationships than three years spent on a dessert Island" The context being that you are looking for spiritual growth.
Namaste
Chris

And it's blooming hard work too. :)

[9eagle9]

If Eckhart is right then I just need one more 'failed' relationship and "I'm there." ;)

Not that easy, right...?(grin)

Yeah its hard work. Like anything else one reaches a point where becoming you is less labor intensive.

Gives the phrase "It's not easy being me," a whole new twist.

[greybeard]

Ego takes up a point of view and will defend to the death, preferably someone else's
To be wrong is equivalent of the annihilation of me.
It needs an enemy to define it self.
I am this, not that.

There is great freedom in not having to be right.
Its ok to have a point of view as a starting point in discussion and even better to let that point of view expand change even dissolve,in order to solve a perceived dispute.
There are no enemies only teachers, every situation is an opportunity to learn to grow, to evolve spiritually in love and compassion.
Speaking of which.
I have just watched Barak Obama speaking at Tuscon after the gun man shot so many.
He is talking about the need to unite in harmony no to condemn, quite a few quotations from the bible,including Job saying "I asked for light and found darkness.
The whole speech was about practicing love and it starts with you the individual.

This video below is a bit unfocused and wandering as far as the talk goes but there ar many gems in it about what can be achieved in love compassion and forgiveness even in the most horrendous cases where genocide was practiced.
Everything that happens give us the choice to chooses fear or love, hate or forgiveness, compassion is the highest form of love. Without the pain of ourselves and others we would not have the opportunity to find these qualities within ourselves.
The sooner we find these qualities the better.
We live in a world of duality at the moment, when we find and practice these qualities we no longer need the dark, we move into non-duality, we create heaven on earth or after death we find ourselves in a higher celestial realm and dont need to reincarnate here, the lesson is over, a new one begins.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X_vN-NNBns&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztbJmXQDIGA&feature=related

[greybeard]

Rudyard Kipling
If

If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

If you can do these things my friend then ego will not trouble you.

Chris

[greybeard]

Charles said "If people need proof ,look no further than this lady,she is living proof of why you are worth a risk,some of you are fascinating and kind beyond your own selves......

Charles is speaking of Celine who was there for me when I needed some one to talk to a while back.

The value of this thread is that it shows the need and the how of being in a state of unconditional love.

The ego operates in "What is in it for me mode."

There is always an agenda.
Accepting that until enlightenment happens there is always a trace of ego and therefore some pay value.

I would not write here without encouragement --thats my pay value.

So Charles via his Master was attracted to this forum because a lot of people on it are " fascinating and kind beyond your own selves......"

That is our saving grace so we need to develop that attribute.

This thread is full of suggestions videos etc from many contributors that will help to go beyond the norm into a state of unconditional love.

There are other threads in the spiritual section that are extremely helpful.

Chris
Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Excellent video series. Enjoy! :)

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0TQkzjKcA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0TQkzjKcA

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBpPKdH0oNY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBpPKdH0oNY

Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHrW32KozRM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHrW32KozRM

Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmk8uAQ792o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmk8uAQ792o

[greybeard]

The Heisenberg Principal is that which is observed by consciousness is changed.
Only observation is necessary, an awareness that is beyond thought holds the power.
Its a very complex subject which Hawkins goes into in some depth.
The kinesology technique that backs up Dr Hawkins subjective experience connects to the field of consciousness in which every event though and deed since time began is recorded.
Using the test there is a yes or non yes response to a statement.
Basically anything that does not exist, is not supportive of life, is an illusion, causes the muscle to go weak and everything that is life supporting causes the muscle to be strong.
For various reasons only about 15% of the populous can use this test with accuracy.

Now the ego
The thought that I am a me is very powerful because we are infatuated with the me story.
Anything that comes and goes is not Truth. Ultimate Truth is unchanging. Truth cant change.
Thoughts have a wave form but they are not us. till we identify with the thought as mine.
Eckhart Tolle says Descartes had it backwards. "I AM THEREFORE I THINK" is more correct.
Its very complex unless you are very precise in the context of a statement.
What is true from one view point, at one level of understanding is not true at another.
Ultimate truth is only God is.
Then its a step down principal.
Very top is Ultimate God who is pure love and does nothing.
Next is God of creation who is busy moment by moment.
Those are the Female and Male aspect of creation
There are the Angels
There are the Avatars
There are the enlightened
Then there is the human race in various levels of vibration from Saints - unconditional love,
all the way down to the
serial child killer.
So the ego seems very powerful because we believe it to be so, only the power of God can remove that illusion.
Chris

[Jendayi]

I see the ego as a raw seed that has to be cultivated and nourished in a way that it will grow into the tree we call "I AM"..
do people in this tread differentiate between ego as a collective thing and/or as a mislabling of the "I" ? if it is collective i would say ego starts as a parasite on a young sprout which is our inner child, placed their by others, but with the possibility to become a simbiotic partner in the totality of our being.. or something like that?

[greybeard]

The Buddha said PUT NO HEAD ABOVE YOUR OWN>
There is a soul who has been venerated, for well over two thousand years.
Having a discussion with a wise friend today he commented "Its all mind"
The tree appears to move but is it the tree that moves or the mind?
Scientists are now proving that time does not exist, they took their time to get to that. LOL.
Ramana said years ago. "Nothing ever happened" David Icke is now saying its all mind. A projection.
It seems so real.
The ancients called it Maya. (Illusion)
Shakti the female aspect of God created Maya and fell asleep. Shiva the male aspect is now calling Shakti home through the cosmic energy of Kundalini.

All that the scientists are now finding out was known by those Sages 4000 years ago, those who wrote the Vedas knew.

There is only the eternal moment, the NOW.

Those who are enlightened describe that state as non-location, timeless, all knowing, all powerful.

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

I see the ego as a raw seed that has to be cultivated and nourished in a way that it will grow into the tree we call "I AM"..
do people in this tread differentiate between ego as a collective thing and/or as a mislabling of the "I" ? if it is collective i would say ego starts as a parasite on a young sprout which is our inner child, placed their by others, but with the possibility to become a simbiotic partner in the totality of our being.. or something like that?

I see it as a false identity that comes with your free will to choose (freedom of choice to experience). The illusion of separateness of our physical body and its ability to rid us of loneliness is nothing more than the working plan of an inflated ego trying to establish its own false identity. Our body alone is a symbol of an inflated ego. An inflated ego is a symbol of separation. Separation limits communication. Communication must be unlimited in order for us to be satisfied with meaning. If we are deprived of meaning, we will never be satisfied with life.

Namaste, ~ Dan

[Billiam]

I think the ego is the by product of our platonic education system ( world of ideal forms) and the emotive fascism exacted on our base psyche through mass media, film and advertising.......It the classic nurture vs nature argument...

[Jendayi]

I think the ego is the by product of our platonic education system ( world of ideal forms) and the emotive fascism exacted on our base psyche through mass media, film and advertising.......It the classic nurture vs nature argument...

never heard it expressed in this way.. i will ponder on this and see if i got the whole concept wrong..
if so, what is the individual divine expression that peeks into reality through the senses of our physical bodies? is the ego perhaps just body consciousness trying to keep us focused on physical life only..? if this is the case it will try to fit in to any jungle to survive, be it natural, urban, concrete or even a cyber jungle.. sorry.. just going of on a tangent here..
often, when the nature of ego is discussed, i get these contradicting thought waves.. sometimes they reach a coherent state.. sometimes they don't..
letting go.. once again..
namaste

as you can see.. multiple views at once.. but which perspective to choose? ahh... the choices.. and yet.. who or what is making those choices...
pfffffff

[greybeard]

never heard it expressed in this way.. i will ponder on this and see if i got the whole concept wrong..
if so, what is the individual divine expression that peeks into reality through the senses of our physical bodies? is the ego perhaps just body consciousness trying to keep us focused on physical life only..? if this is the case it will try to fit in to any jungle to survive, be it natural, urban, concrete or even a cyber jungle.. sorry.. just going of on a tangent here..
often, when the nature of ego is discussed, i get these contradicting thought waves.. sometimes they reach a coherent state.. sometimes they don't..
letting go.. once again..
namaste


Hi Jendayi

Easiest way of looking at is that the ego is a septation device which keeps you in ignorance of your Divinity.

The sun is always there but sometimes we are unaware of its presence because of heavy black dense clouds.

We remove these clouds and the sunshine is apparent.
The clouds are your conditioning programing that leads you to identify with the story of me.
I am a this or a that-- Is just a story in the head, a love affair with the me.
I am a kind person, I am selfish, all judgments.

You are not a person, you are not a human being looking to be spiritual. You are a soul, consciousness experiencing what it is like to be human.

There is nothing personal, its self experiencing observing .

Its a bit like being at the movies, you really know its a fil but you can enjoy being moved by it.

Learning to be kind no matter what removes many dark clouds.

I would suggest that people new to this but serious of knowing about spiritual Truth start page One and work though, its not like a magazine with new concepts and looking for the next on next issue.

The posts in this thread are ancient unchanging eternal truth, not flavor of the month.
It takes time to get your head round some of it,
Thats tough love.

but Love it is

Chris

Namaste (I greet the Divinity in you)

[truthseekerdan]

as you can see.. multiple views at once.. but which perspective to choose? ahh... the choices.. and yet.. who or what is making those choices...
pfffffff

Jendayi, the choice is always yours to grab. That's how you'll experience and learn in what we call life (3D). Life is the experience of our choices. Our day to day life is full of meaningful events that we deliberately and consciously set out to experience for ourselves. Such events are not accidental or causal events; they are intentional actions. Therefore, the real meaning in our lives is not created simply by what we know about ourselves but comes from our natural ability to experience the wholeness of living a balanced existence that embraces all experience (good or bad) as an opportunity to learn.

Namaste :love: ~ Dan

[Jendayi]

Jendayi, the choice is always yours to grab. That's how you'll experience and learn in what we call life (3D). Life is the experience of our choices. Our day to day life is full of meaningful events that we deliberately and consciously set out to experience for ourselves. Such events are not accidental or causal events; they are intentional actions. Therefore, the real meaning in our lives is not created simply by what we know about ourselves but comes from our natural ability to experience the wholeness of living a balanced existence that embraces all experience (good or bad) as an opportunity to learn.

Namaste :love: ~ Dan
sigh... yeah.. i know.. humbly thanking you for reminding me...

[truthseekerdan]

Eckhart talks about how we can dissolve the egoic or story self by using non-identification with form. The formless essence of our being exists in the present moment.

"To be identified with your mind is to be trapped in time: the compulsion to live almost exclusively through memory and anticipation." Eckhart Tolle

Eckhart Tolle's Findhorn Retreat BK/DVD
"Stillness amidst the World"

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeaWC6y0jFc)
aeaWC6y0jFc

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bRy8GonFrE)
_bRy8GonFrE

[greybeard]

Eckhart talks about how we can dissolve the egoic or story self by using non-identification with form. The formless essence of our being exists in the present moment.

"To be identified with your mind is to be trapped in time: the compulsion to live almost exclusively through memory and anticipation." Eckhart Tolle

Eckhart Tolle's Findhorn Retreat BK/DVD
"Stillness amidst the World"

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeaWC6y0jFc)
aeaWC6y0jFc

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bRy8GonFrE)
_bRy8GonFrE

Ha I was there third row back on the left in the middle.

I was extremely lucky with two friends to spend an hour talking with Eckhart and Kim
It all just happened not planed in any way.

My ego loves to tell the story of course, I could get a few free lunches out of the story
Laughing.
Thanks Dan,

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

Ha I was there third row back on the left in the middle.

I was extremely lucky with two friends to spend an hour talking with Eckhart and Kim
It all just happened not planed in any way.

My ego loves to tell the story of course, I could get a few free lunches out of the story
Laughing.
Thanks Dan,

Chris

That's why I posted it -- I spotted you ego...;)

LoL :lol:

[illuminate]

Hello friends :)

I thought I'd post an excerpt of an article by an amazing fella named Ben Stewart
called: THE REBELLION OF EGO (http://soulfulliving.com/ego-rebellion.htm)


There is no other way to liberate yourself from suffering but to destroy the mechanisms that enslave the consciousness. Yet even though we inherently know this truth, the ego will seem to externalize itself as people, circumstances, and events in our lives tempting us to return to our old habits and vices. We will begin to conjure up justifications and alternative theories.

Our ego will act like our best friend. It will promise us all of the pleasures in the world. It will tell us how horrible, tragic, lonely and pointless a life of freedom truly is. Just as a child will beg and plead for something he or she wants, then put on a fake smile to persuade you, then lash out to threaten you, then curse you in the hopes of evoking guilt within you in order to attain his or her desire, our ego is that very same child.

Lucifer. The most heralded of all the angels. Entrusted with the most controversial duty. The duty of tempting the individual with rewards of ego. A truly liberated and free individual understands the futility of the ego. A sovereign mind comprehends the idiocy of worshipping illusion. Lucifer stands at the threshold between freedom and slavery. We are standing in limbo between both, every time we encounter a Luciferic force.

Read the rest of this wonderful and short article HERE (http://soulfulliving.com/ego-rebellion.htm)

:love:

[OneSeeker]

Namaste "Ego Disolvers" ! ;)

Since I'm a seeker in ego's secrets, looking to tame it, I thought I could share this "Seven Steps for Overcoming Ego’s Hold on You (http://spiritlibrary.com/wayne-w-dyer/seven-steps-for-overcoming-ego-s-hold-on-you)" by Wayne W. Dyer



1. Stop being offended.
2. Let go of your need to win.
3. Let go of your need to be right.
4. Let go of your need to be superior.
5. Let go of your need to have more.
6. Let go of identifying yourself on the basis of your achievements.
7. Let go of your reputation.



I just hope is not a duplicate on this forum because I used the search feature and couldn't find any significant sequence pointing to this sharing.

Love & Light to all.

[modwiz]

Hello friends :)

I thought I'd post an excerpt of an article by an amazing fella named Ben Stewart
called: THE REBELLION OF EGO (http://soulfulliving.com/ego-rebellion.htm)


Read the rest of this wonderful and short article HERE (http://soulfulliving.com/ego-rebellion.htm)











:love:

Your part about Lucifer was most enlightening and informative ina great post and hopefully its; true meaning will be apprehended. People get very emotional around the Luciferic energy and it can sink them. No need to be disrespectful, a simple no is all that is needed.

[OneSeeker]

I should mention a great book IMHO on how mind works "The road less traveled (http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780743238250/Road-Less-Traveled-25th-Anniversar)" by M. Scott Peck.
If you enjoy it go for the trilogy :)

[greybeard]

This is very important and relevant to us here now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlz0c1VomB8&feature=related

This no 2 of 11 Marcel Messing
Explains our true past and the importance of spiritual raising of consciousness
He stresses that the "controllers" are terrified of this raising of vibration/frequency that is going on.
They cant live with a higher frequency.

Please listen to all 11

Chris
Namaste

[Anchor]

Here in a blinding fit of ego irony, I will post something that I posted on PA1. I read it recently and thought why am I not doing this myself - I wrote the damn thing as well - I have slipped in some areas. More work to do...

(Originally posted thread is here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19330
The version here has minor modifications made)




There are a lot of scientists with complex minds delving into complex mysteries - analysis paralysis - finding God with particle accelerator! Etc.

It is made to sound so hard, but it really isn't. It is so simple its hard!

It isn't hard to go outside and look at everyone you see and think, he is a part of me, she is a part of me, so is he, she and them.

Look at the vagrant in the street - he or she is a part of you and a part of me. Look at the rapist, the hurt person in haiti, the mugger, the Samaritan, the healers, the dentists! the "whatever" it is they are, he/she/they are part of me and part of you.

Look at that sunny friendly smile, she/he is part of me/we/you.

Fellow fragments of all that is, there is only one of us here.

Namaste

A..


John..

[greybeard]

Yes John.
One it is.
Your posts here and at Avalon were and are greatly appreciated

[Antithesis]

I enjoyed the post by illuminate, Ben Stewart is a well balanced man and his work is always done very well.

"Rid yourself of desires in order to observe its secrets, but always allow yourself to have desires in order to observe its manifestations." Tao

[truthseekerdan]

More about the ego...:)

The ego is personality. Personality is the body. The body is how we experience intuition. Intuition is a particular way in which we perceive, think, and feel physical experience. The ego is no more than contrast when in check and perversion when in control. It is natural for the ego as a perversion to try to preserve itself. Ego’s can conflict in any situation but our metaphysical identity cannot be in conflict. An inflated ego always tries to capitalize on all situations, congratulating it self continuously to overcome any doubt. The real us, is part of a reality that stands unchanged and beyond the reach of any inflated ego (our own or someone else's).

[greybeard]

The ego is shared, it comes with having a human body, its not personal but we are responsible for our share of it.

the ones who would control us have very strong egos they are fear of loss drive, enough is never enough.

The deterrent.

How can me bring about positive change with out resorting to force?.

In a way its quite simple.
If you can look at consciousness a bit like a thermometer.

At one end there is a lack of heat and at the top its extremely hot.
Now transfer that example to H2o Water,
At a very low temperature its ice, mid its water, very hot its steam. Same H2o but a change of class.
They act differently.

Now take people
Any scale you want
Very kind--- lacking in kindness.
Very loving -- lacking in love and understanding
Considerate - total lack of consideration.

Now everything has an energy a vibration.
The denser the slower the vibration
Light vibrates rapidly.

Same with consciousness
Lower levels are heavy dark a lack of light, higher levels bright, buoyant, light.

The light has different characteristics, its a different class but of the same energy.

So we are talking about the energy of people.

The Saint has different characteristics than the lower vibration person,
The Saint is incapable of un-saintly action, his/her vibration sets his class and therfore how he reacts to the world,
The lower vibration person similarly has a vibration that sets his/her characteristics and therfore the way they react to the world.

So its a question of vibration, spiritual essence, energy.

Want to change the world?

its simple change the vibration/energy = change the action of those who are self greedy and controling.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

Those who put time into raising their own consciousness are affecting the unified consciousness of all.
They are not waisting their time, further more the power of one person enlightened equals the force of a million who are at the lowest level on the scale.

Gandhi a classic example. He made the difference.

Our culture says that we have to be very active to bring about change, that is force and runs out of energy.
High vibration spiritual energy is of a different class. It is very powerful.

Yet again I m drawn to mention the Book "Power vs Force / The hidden Determinants of Human Behavior" by Dr David R Hawkins"
Once you understand full what drives people to do what they do you are well on th way to bringing about positive change.
Its all in there.

The predictions of a solar high in 2012 bringing about a raising of consciousness may be true.
Lets hope so.

Chris
Namaste

[greybeard]

The master is manipulator of the force.

There have been many who can manipulate the force, can manifest things, transport things and do many wondrous things.
Babaji in Yoganandas "Autobiography of A Yogi wrote of such things."
Jesus fed the thousands and walked on water.

Jesus said that anything he did we can do.

Manipulating the force and being the force are not quite the same.

We are all life we are all that force.
We are all waves of the Ocean.
We did not however create that Ocean.

Chris
Namaste

[greybeard]

A spiritual Diary

if full of beautiful words attempting to express the beautiful experience of the Mystic as in Union with God.
The light of a Million suns does not compare with such an experience.

[greybeard]

A Spiritual Master

Is there for others.
They are there to serve you, not the other way around.
They have no need of followers.
They have no wants or needs no desires.
They are not controling

They may give tough love occasionally as they are very aware of their responsibility to be Truth. As in Zen Master.

They are aware of the karmic consequences of using their abilities to seduce followers or miss-lead..
They see the God in all

They have no desire to have devotees.
They will tell you that the teacher and the taught are the same, there is only one consciousness.
They have no agenda.

You listen to the taching that flows through them or not, they are not concerned.

Krishna said "Even those who are running in the wrong direction are mine"

That is just a short list of the attributes of a master.

The enlightened ones are omni potent, omni present, live in the eternal moment, all knowing, are in form but remain formless, they are truly the Ocean the totality all of it.

Chris

[greybeard]

The ultimate is that nothing is happening and there is no one for anything to happen to.
The Indian Vedas called this Idras dream.

Ramana also said " The world that you are trying to save does not even exist"

However that is not helpful at the level we are at.

I will do my best to give some context to the remarks I have made

I think it would be helpful to read David Hawkins "Discovery of the presence of God/Devotional non-duality" to put some posts on the thread in context

I believe that Hawkins is fully enlightened as he states that there is only one death and at the final door the agony of death is horrendous as what we believe to be us is finally surrendered to God, then only God walks though the final door. Hawkins describes normal death as nothing we just exit the body.

After the final death could not speak of it for 30 years -- there was no mind to describe it,
It was his karma to re energize the mind to be a teacher.
He also describes life from a non duality state and the overwhelming beauty of everything.
He is in he 80s and still sharing what he knows as a Mystic

At the level of human consciousness we have apparent choice and we accept Gods will or reject it. What we call good or evil.
Hitler did not have to chose to go to war, there was potential for war and that is what he chose.

Many who seek power for power sake are taken over by the lower astral which rejects the sovereignty of God.
Many murderers will deny that they did it particularly the ones that are particularly gruesome, and they are right they have been taken over by entities from the lower astral.
Those taken over or students of Luciferic path can perform quite amazing feats which seem like miracles.
Dont ever underestimate the power of the dark side.
I dont even want to think about it.

If we look at this world as the university of the evolution of consciousness then it starts to make sense. we come in at different levels and attend different classes.
One can come in at the level of apathy and transcend that through becoming angry.
We can be born into a violent culture, full of anger and seeking revenge for the the actions of those long dead, they killed Great Grand Father so I will kill the Grand Son. we then have an opportunity to transcend that by forgiving the enemy.

Christ taught. Unconditional love. Forgiveness.
That is the pathway to Heaven.
Heaven is to be found inside and is a state of consciousness. Christ consciousness.

Causality is a belief system of the ego, nothing is causing anything to happen. One however may be a catalyst for the potential to be realized or refused.

Much of what I have written is second had by necessity as I am not in the enlightened state so is objective rather than subjective.

From my own experience there is a potential to manifest, and I have done so, but by no means have I manifested everything I wanted. that was some time ago, my needs are taken care of now without me asking.

I think most people have the power to manifest but only in line with their attractor field.
We attract according to our spiritual vibration. The more love we express the more we attract. If you want change be the change you want.

We can only manifest in line with our potential which is set by our spiritual vibration and even then its not guaranteed to happen.
If we could make it happen then it would.

Imagine a world where people who did not have spiritual purity had the power to create anything they desired, thats a recipe for disaster.
Best to leave creation to God who is Ultimate LOVE.

Hope this is helpful, im not an authority on anything, just relating what I believe to be so at this exact moment.
I can only point to the likes of Ramana, Nasargadatta (cant spell) Ramesh Balsakar, Dr Goels the Kundalini Guru. Eckhart Tolle, Dr David Hawkins. all teachers of Nonduality.

Chris
Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Eckhart talks about the concept of enlightenment. He also transmitted to me telepathically that one person he met (Chris) is also enlightened. ;)

rdgO4UDrwm8

[DeDukshyn]

Excellent thread Chris, I very pleased you started it with the distinction in terms between the psychiatric version of "ego" and the spiritual one. I throw the word ego about here and there but in retrospect I am always wondering how much gets through to people due to this technicality, if I don't offer to explain the term properly. I might have some good content to add but I'll spend som time first trying to go through this so I don't end up too redundant. And thanks again Dan for the Tolle video, he always has a wonderful perspective.

[DeDukshyn]

"...Manipulating the force and being the force are not quite the same...."



I was contemplating this the other day after Charles' post. I pondered if assuming the "position", so to speak, of being the force, is what allows the manipulation of it. Because the force and us (without our egos) ultimately have to have the same source. Any thoughts around this?

[greybeard]

I was contemplating this the other day after Charles' post. I pondered if assuming the "position", so to speak, of being the force, is what allows the manipulation of it. Because the force and us (without our egos) ultimately have to have the same source. Any thoughts around this?

Thanks for posting here and its a great question.

When there is no ego there is no desire, to need to manipulate. One is the Totality all of it.
If you look at it as a step down principal.
The ultimate God is pure love not doing anything, just being, radiating out pure love, not even needing anyone to love, total and complete.
Out of that came a Creator God, why I do not know, Some say that it is the out breath of God = Creation.
Then In Breath =dissolution.
So the Creator know everything but being formless cant experience,
The Creator God creates, Male and Female aspect God. Shiva and Shakti.
They create the Universes and all in it
Shakti creates the illusion that we are separate from God, duality in order to experience. Maya is the illusion.

In some Kundalin awakens either slowly or rapidly (God shock) and for them enlightenment removal of ignorance happens.

We are coming to a time of awakening.

Thats my deepest feeling not necessarily so, your thoughts welcome.

Chris
namaste

[DeDukshyn]

Thanks Chris, for that input.

Also, It may have been touched on elsewhere here.. still haven't gone through it all, but would you want to touch on the distinction between an individual's ego and the collective's ego? I ask because of this previous statement of yours: "When there is no ego there is no desire, to need to manipulate.". I agree with this 100%, but this is, to me, the pont when NO distinction from source is had on all levels, and the "universes" cease to have a purpose. Is there anything you can add about this on an individual level? (I understand "stepping up" etc. - you just have nice way with words so I'm pulling a little ;) - only respect) Excellent thread topic BTW!

[greybeard]

Thanks Chris, for that input.

Also, It may have been touched on elsewhere here.. still haven't gone through it all, but would you want to touch on the distinction between an individual's ego and the collective's ego? I ask because of this previous statement of yours: "When there is no ego there is no desire, to need to manipulate.". I agree with this 100%, but this is, to me, the pont when NO distinction from source is had on all levels, and the "universes" cease to have a purpose. Is there anything you can add about this on an individual level? (I understand "stepping up" etc. - you just have nice way with words so I'm pulling a little ;) - only respect) Excellent thread topic BTW!

Nothing unreal exists.

If you look at birds in flight sparrows a great example they seem to fly as one bending and twisting past obstacles. Clearly they are unique and having unique experiences, but flying as one body.
Again I have to point to Dr Hawkins work.
He talks about vibration and attractor fields.
So the birds are in a certain field of consciousness and act in accordance with that vibration..
Now take football hooligans or rioters, they seem to act as one.
There was a young man recently who was demonstarting on a roof top, he threw a fire extinguisher off the roof, he could easily have killed some one below, he was that shocked at what he had done he told his mother, she got him to go to the police and confess.
he was taken over by an energy field of violence, he acted completely out of character.
40 million Germans got conned by Hitler, They were spiritually unconscious.

So getting to it, when you are born automatically you get your share of human karma that is expressed through the ego.

Then you accumulate personal karma through your own ego.
When you start to transcend the ego you become very aware of your every action, then you are not run by collective ego though you are still in an attractor field which is concordent with your spiritual vibration, now you can accept what happens in life and act appropriately haven chosen wisely your response.

I surrender all actions for the day to God that prevents karma. There is a prayer some where on the thread for morning and last thing at night, that prevents karma and decreases ego.

Your making me think thats good.
C
Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Your making me think thats good.

What is good? ;)

[greybeard]

What is good? ;)

Oh yeah you got me good there Dan.
lol

[Beren]

What is good? ;)

Good is.;)

[greybeard]

Good is.;)

Thing is when you are in the k-now, you can have fun with your friends in the eternal moment.
Now about that ginger beer you owe me Beren, make it a double.

C

[truthseekerdan]

Good is.;)

Who...? ;)

[Beren]

Who...? ;)

Good IS. :)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Thing is when you are in the k-now, you can have fun with your friends in the eternal moment.
Now about that ginger beer you owe me Beren, make it a double.

C

heh ;)

I`ll make it a triple...

[greybeard]

Where are you RedeZra
Come join the musketeers.
We are having fun
Pity Kriya isent here.
We need some one to keep us in order

[truthseekerdan]

Good IS. :)

LOVE IS -- good/evil = mind illusion :)

[greybeard]

Oh the boss is calling. I must bid you good night from Scotland.

Chris

[Beren]

LOVE IS -- good/evil = mind illusion :)


good is a part of Love thus IS... even illusion is a part of Love so we can all experience various stuff.
Thing is never to forget that!

You` re in a tricky mood tonight , tricky Dan ;)

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Oh the boss is calling. I must bid you good night from Scotland.

Chris

Goodnight , ye olde!
Farewell tonight and bring back the morning song!

;)

[DeDukshyn]

:cool: Chris, You response was very pleasant, well put, for a complex topic - I'm sure we could get quite deep with this. I like to gain as many different perspectives from as many people as I can even if feel I am well versed in a topic. If I made you think, then I did what I do ;) Blessings.

[Maria Stade]

Yea good is good say the suorse !
Thank you !

All Love :dance3:

[truthseekerdan]

If you want a definition Beren... ;) Good = No Ego

I9Ex3BqEub0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Ex3BqEub0&playnext=1&list=PLE0402D92A15AB73A

[DeDukshyn]

Good and evil are judgements. and Loving and fearing are directions. STS and STO are qualities. I Our language hasn't near enough proper distinctions - the different ways the word "ego" can be interpreted is proof enough of that. The Inuit have I think 8 words for snow. each to convey certain characteristics - I find english lacks these distinctions. hmmm. Off Topic here sry but, I wonder if our language was restricted on purpose? English does actually have ~600,000 words (1 million by some accounts - yet most of the common internet sources say its a silly question and give no results) but yet we use on average 40,000 - 70,00. Maybe a new thread ...

[truthseekerdan]

"As I look back from today's perspective, I can see how perfect it has all been - the 'bad' bits and the 'good'.
These are just labels that come from the perspective of Mind that sees everything as duality and polarity,
while Consciousness sees the unity of everything. The 'bad' bits have been just as important, often more so, as the 'good'.
They are all threads in the same tapestry called experience."

~ David Icke

[greybeard]

God is One without a second.
Its great to be having a conversation here.

So if we look at non duality we have a sliding scale of Extremely good, good quite good, till good disapears off the scale and we are left with absence of good.
In the eyes of God and dont take this too literally. absence has no reality it is non existant. Dark is the absence of light. You cant shine dark but you can shine light.
Darkness has no substance no form it is an absence it does not exist in the light of love.

God only knows Love
The rest is mind constructs.

In non duality there is no need for opposites. just degrees of Love degrees of what is.
One without a second no need for opposites.

In duality we need bad to define good.

That is a major difference.
The difference is in the thinking, in the Mind.
Change the mind change the way of being the way of acting.

Eventually NOW One is left with Awareness, thinking = analyzing and is unnecessary in that all knowing state, which is called enlightenment.

Namaste

[Ernie Nemeth]

"The smarter you are, if smart is measured in IQ, the longer this process will take. IQ is based on thinking. IQ is based on a time/space reality." by allhealing.
No wonder it is taking me so long to reach enlightenment...

[greybeard]

Hi Ernie
The advice of Ramana Maharshi (my Avatar)
Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away.
So the intellect-- rationality is very important in investigating the mind,
So logic reveals what the ego is up to and becomes aware of mind programs, conditioning concepts cherished beliefs and becomes willing to let them go
Next step is to surrender the pay value each time the ego wants to take credit for some action.
When all the obstacles are remove the Self shines forth revealed in all its Divine Glory.
Self-realization it is called, enlightenment by any name etc.
Awareness without thought.
The caterpillar has become the butterfly.

Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Hi Ernie,

One can be smart, but not necessarily wise.

Wisdom comes with becoming more loving and surrendering the mind (ego).

Like Chris mentioned -- the caterpillar has to become the butterfly. :nod:

Namaste ~ Dan

[greybeard]

Manipulating the person via ego is simple.

Get something to seem important or that the person will be seen as special by buying into this privileged information.

Anyone who has studied Neuro Linguistic Programing will know how to get the attention of others and how to change their mind, influence them etc.

A story
I studied this and Ericsonian Hypnotherapy at St Annes Hospital London. (Even telling you where I studied has impact)
getting to it.
The course cost thousands but well spent,
Stephen Brooks who trained me was exceptionally good.

At that time I was very stressed m business was going down the plug hole, I couldn't sleep at night the voice in my head was remorselessly telling me all kinds of negative stories.

I caught Stephen in the corridor and asked him if he had a moment, he said yes.
I said "I cant get to sleep for the voice in my head", He said "Stop talking to your self" and walked off.
I was wild I had been ignored and after all I had paid a lot of money I had expectation that he would fix me or free.

Later when I had calmed down I approached him again.
He saw me coming and said "Do you really want to know?" thats taking control of the situation and impressing on me that he knew.

"Listen" he said, that is a command. I did attentively.

Answer is Its as though you have two voices in the head., one you have control over, One will start or try to start a conversation dont answer it.
If something is really important have an internal dialogue by all mean but most internal talk is repetitive and of no real importance. If you do answer the other voice it will pull you this way and that, off at tangents, there will be no peace of mind.

When Eckhart Tolle was contemplating suicide He said "I can no longer live with myself", Instantly came the though are there two of me, the self and the one I cant live with. The thought brought about virtually instant transformation after a few moments of extreme fear as the ego died.. When he awoke in the morning his world was totally different, peace prevailed mind was silent.

Going back to what Stephen said and the way he delivered the information I needed.
He first ccreated emotion in me and increased desire to know by just giving me a snipped of information that did not make complete sense and walking off.

Next time we met I was really ready to listen and he also commanded me to.

He knew exactly what he was doing and manipulated me for in this case my own good.

I took his advice and did not sleep for two nights, I was determined not to speak to myself.
It worked to a certain degree.
Meditation and stopping myself from commenting on some things took me the rest of the way to a silent mind.

Anyway it is easy to grab peoples attention when you have been trained how to,


Chris
Namaste

Ps if you find this helpful please visit the charity site below.
Any donations greatly appreciated.
I dont like asking but you dont get unless you do is very true

[DeDukshyn]

"The smarter you are, if smart is measured in IQ, the longer this process will take. IQ is based on thinking. IQ is based on a time/space reality." by allhealing.
No wonder it is taking me so long to reach enlightenment...

I've concluded to myself that intelligence can NOT be learned. You are born with all the intelligence you need. This cannot be expressed though until you know "things" or "knowledge"(in the traditional sense). Then, as you gain more and more "Knowledge" and "language" you can start to express your intelligence. IQ is based on tests of REASON not knowledge. That's why they tend to work for everyone regardless of their knowlegde or language skills. Keep in mind here that "Knowledge" and "language" are actually restrictors of intelligence. That which is ineffible due to a lack of either of these becomes the things we cannot speak of; but does not imbede intelligence. This is distinction really helps when just learning not to judge your brothers - we truly are all equal.

[9eagle9]

"The smarter you are, if smart is measured in IQ, the longer this process will take. IQ is based on thinking. IQ is based on a time/space reality." by allhealing.
No wonder it is taking me so long to reach enlightenment...

Very intelligent people LIKE to think, though. It's a choice. We choose to excersize our clever little minds. Thinking is bad/Thinking is good is a ego assignment on its own. So is intelligence is bad, intelligence is good. If thoughts are meaningless why would they be a hinderance? ...through choice.

At any given time we can choose Know or we can choose Think.

[DeDukshyn]

God is One without a second.
Its great to be having a conversation here.

So if we look at non duality we have a sliding scale of Extremely good, good quite good, till good disapears off the scale and we are left with absence of good.
In the eyes of God and dont take this too literally. absence has no reality it is non existant. Dark is the absence of light. You cant shine dark but you can shine light.
Darkness has no substance no form it is an absence it does not exist in the light of love.

God only knows Love
The rest is mind constructs.

In non duality there is no need for opposites. just degrees of Love degrees of what is.
One without a second no need for opposites.

In duality we need bad to define good.

That is a major difference.
The difference is in the thinking, in the Mind.
Change the mind change the way of being the way of acting.

Eventually NOW One is left with Awareness, thinking = analyzing and is unnecessary in that all knowing state, which is called enlightenment.

Namaste

Yes that is definately a far superior way of interpreting the world. On scales of goodness, on scales of love, scales of truth - with no negatives, just levels of these qualities. I think that would be an appropriate "next" step for anyone wanting to move from their present dualistic state; just begin perceiving in these terms instead as a tool to help facilitate that process. I can see this being a very practical application for anyone seeking a more unified perspective.

[greybeard]

Yes that is definately a far superior way of interpreting the world. On scales of goodness, on scales of love, scales of truth - with no negatives, just levels of these qualities. I think that would be an appropriate "next" step for anyone wanting to move from their present dualistic state; just begin perceiving in these terms instead as a tool to help facilitate that process. I can see this being a very practical application for anyone seeking a more unified perspective.
We have to meet people where they stand.
Some years ago if I read what has been written on this thread, I would have run a mile.
It took years of crosschecking, building faith and also there were "spiritual" experiences which confirmed the Truth of sages.
Sometimes I expect to much of people, it took me long enough by trial error to have this understanding and cant say that I am right even yet.
Thanks for posting
Chris
Namaste

[Ernie Nemeth]

Although my post was intended as a joke, I understand that this is exactly my problem.
I spend my days at my desk writing, reading and researching. I spend every waking moment thinking about my ego's iron-grip on my life. It creates, it alters reality, it gets what it wants. But these are my birthright, not the ego's! I want to create. I want to alter reality. I want to get what I want. But I am diametrically opposed to my ego and I feel powerless to wrest control from my nemesis. This has become the central part of my life. It is all I ever think about. For twelve years now I have been stuck in this Dark Night of the Soul. My life has been torn apart. I have lost my house, my priviledge to drive a car, my business, my designation as an electrician, my friends, my family, my woman. I have lost my possessions - I have two boxes left of stuff, the rest is long gone. I have been completely side-lined by this society.
On the up-side, my thoughts are crystal clear, my access to truth is virtually unimpeded, and my guides are in constant contact.
I am in touch but out of touch at the same time.
I know it is my own mistaken beliefs that have led me here. I know I cannot in truth blame anyone but myself for my predicament. I know God loves me and I Him.
Sometimes I dream of how my life would be if I would just drop my defenses and surrender to the truth. It would be awesome, if my dream is true. But then I think, what would it cost me in terms of what else I would have to give up first. And, I do not have much left to give before I end up out on the street. That scares me a lot.
So now I hold onto my dwindling resources with both hands tightly. I panic when rent is due or there is no more food in the fridge or I drop below $100 in cash - which happens way too frequently. I hustle for little electrical jobs and hurry to finish them, get paid and get out before the inspection departmnent catches me working. And this in the trade where I am the expert with over thirty years experience!
Oh boy, I've gone on and on. Sorry. But thanks for letting me vent. I feel better already.
In this life as a body I have so far failed the test. But in this life as a soul, I am at the top of my class.
I will not be coming back. This world is too harsh for my kind. I have done my work.
My plan now is to release my ego on my deathbed so that I will have completed my task just as I slip out of these earthly coils.

[9eagle9]

I was in somewhat of the same position as you. And I still backslide periodically into the worry which creates circumstances I don't particularly want. I found ACIM before it found me, but before either found the other..I was already giving things up to spirit. So I didn't make a complete hell for myself entirely just pockets of hell scattered here and there I stopped thinking and started just bundling everything up and shoving it at Source. Just through my hands up in the air after wrestling with something for a year and say, Fine God. You take it make Shinola from **** (God doesn't seem to mind my potty mouth.) That's when things would break for the better. I knew that. I just didn't utilize God or My Higher self enough. I just knee jerkedly thought I could figure everything out on my own. My mind, my worry, my projections never did solve anything for me it just drug me deeper into the net.

But the thing is you don't have to break the ego BEFORE things can start to turn around. Give it to your higher self. The ego can't block that which you give up to the higher self. Or source or holy spirit. And it works. But sometimes we are so befuddled we don't even know what we are asking for. I had to read Tolle and Marianne Williamson in order to be taught to know which questions to ask I was that far down in the hole. Or what to give up for them to fix (make sacred).. To know what i needed to give up in order to effect even a shift in perception.

I had this attachment that was like a living thing on me and no matter what I did and I did quite a lot from plain old energy work to exorcism to shamanic healing it wouldn't leave. Finally God said, Would you just accept it. Instead of resisting it always and fighting it?

So I did. The next day it was gone. Two years of energy invested in getting that attachment off me. This is what you do when you hold onto your resources tightly. You create resource resistant energy and resources begin to resist you. You have an attitude that you are somehow sneaky or wrong to support yourself, to not be caught by the inspection dept. The inspection department is not of God. God really doesn't care what the inspection department thinks and neither should you. You are entitled to an abundant life , you just need to clear some stuff out to help you see that. If you were sitting her with me I'd be prowling in the attitudes of your parents and the conditions of your youth to find out where this notion that you have to sneak to earn came from. This sounds intensely personal but its not. Lots of people including myself have once held that hidden sneaky belief that we didn't' deserve...for any reason. You maybe carrying some wounds but I don't think anyone here is going to gasp in shock. More likely they'll flap their hand and say "Yep that was me."

But you don't have to wait for a sudden breakdown in ego.

I work with a minister that has been teaching and working with ACIM for about jeez at least 20 years. I do wound work with people. She disagreed with me that there were no wounds only thoughts. And that's true at a certain level. If you have not reached that level you can't comprehend or even work with that. So we decided that we would work together, she would show how Spirit pummels the ego from 'above' and how 'we' could hammer it from below by doing core belief work, the wounds the ego uses against us. You shed light on why you have a wound and it disappears. This is what is happening to you, your ego is using your wounds against you. Get rid of the wounds and you don't have any ammo for the ego to hurl.

You will benefit a lot from both. To me it sounds like you have some patterns in your life, and that could be based in your core belief system. Beliefs we hold about ourselves that we don't even know we are holing. It causes events like you are experiencing. But its faster if you do it the above and below way.

[9eagle9]

http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/downloads/How_I_06.pdf

@ Ernie. This is an interesting little read from a woman who not only broke her earthly contracts, debt, cc bills, taxes, but based it using the precepts used in ACIM. All of our life is about breaking contracts that don't serve us. Emotional, mental and physical agreements.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi 9eagle9,
Thanks for the input. Your love has touched me. Still I feel it.
ACIM is nothing new to me. I have worked with that book for over ten years. I used to carry it with me wherever I went. I read it front to back at least five, six times, if not more. I made notes, did the course twice, the second time even sincerely dedicated. I have gone to workshops on ACIM. Even volunteered at weekend seminars. I even took a one year Practitioner's course. Not only that but I have written two books, both heavily influenced by ACIM. I am currently working on the third book of the set, "World Peace Manifesto".
I am a yoga teacher. I've read all the books I could get my hands on in this category including Marrianne Williamson and Eckert Tolle. I work with friends, family and even strangers, never forgetting the gifts they bring to me even if they have no clue about such things. I am doing the work.
I've done past regressive work. Spent a year gathering together everything anyone knew about me or my parents and family. From that I created our family tree and wrote my autobiography with special emphasis on events that changed my thinking or otherwise changed the trajectory of my life. Its all on paper. I know why I am who I think I am. Believe it or not I have been the catalyst for many others on the road to enlightenment. They have leaped-frogged way ahead of me but forgot to reach back down and take me with them...
I blame no one, though, except myself. Been through the blame game until there was no one left to blame but myself.
I've thrown my ACIM book in the trash six months ago. Tears come to my eyes as I say that. Never have I read a book so obviously inspired, so concise, so real. I miss it terribly. But the book had become my idol. It had to go.
I am very close now, but I have been saying that for years. My guides keep insisting there is so much more I can do if only I would surrender to love. Then they show me my possible future and I recoil at the blasphemy of it. I cannot even utter the magnificence, the magnitude of the one I could become. I will not accept it. It cannot be true. But if it is not true, if my guides are just the precursors of insanity, then everything I worked for, everything I have learned, is false. Then I am truly lost and hopelessly befuddled.
That is my dilemna. I am afraid of my power. I am not sure any more if I am not insane already.
Thanks again for your input.

[greybeard]

Dear Ernie
My heart goes out to you hang on in there.
Much love Chris

[greybeard]

"God gave you an ego let Him take it away."
Ramesh Balsekar.

The more you try the harder it gets.
You just let go the tug of war and surrender the ego and all else to God.

Namaste

[greybeard]

We are becoming civilized. Very happy. Very happy

The thread is a good place for sharing for helping one another

This is happening.

Love is in many if not all places, the highest form of love is compassion and through sharing it is to be found here.

Elsewhere too.

We are becoming civilized

Namaste

[greybeard]

Certainly in the case of Dr David Hawkins there is no ego and the
self of him is the same Self as the Self of Ramana etc it also the same
Self as the Self of you.
Hawkins says he is not actually in the body

, "People talk to it but thats the way it is here"

We cant fully understand till we are in that state but David Hawkins
comes closest to describing what it is like.
Awareness remains and that is eternal. That is what you are and I are as
One. Awareness.
There are levels of God awareness (even that is not absolutely correct)
The first being full enlightenment as described by Hawkins. He is not
saying he is God God as I understand it.




There is so many thoughts on what enlightenment is that I thought it
best to get it straight from the one who is in such a state.

There are levels of enlightenment and after fully transcending the ego
this is an account of the final state

Copied from the book "I Reality and Subjectivity" by Dr David Hawkins MD
Ph.D

"Suddenly without warning, a shift in awareness occurred and the
Presence totally prevailed, unmistakable and all encompassing. There
were a few moments of intense apprehension as the self died, and then
the absoluteness of the Presence inspired a flash of awe.

This breakthrough was spectacular and more intense than anything before. It
had no counterpart in ordinary experience. The profound shock was was
cushioned by the love that is the Presence. Without the support and
protection of that love, it seems that one would be annihilated.

There followed a moment of terror as the ego clung to its existence,
fearing it would become nothingness. Instead, as it died, it was
replaced by the Self as Everythingness, the All in which everything was
known and obvious in its perfect expression of its own essence.

With non-locality came the awareness that one is all that ever was or
can be. One is total and complete, beyond all identities, beyond gender,
beyond even humanness itself. One need never again fear suffering and
death.

What happened to the body beyond this point is immaterial. At certain
level of spiritual awareness, ailments of the body heal or spontaneously
disappear, but in the Absolute state such considerations are
irrelevant.

The body will run its predicted course and then return from whence it
came. Its a matter of no importance, Reality is unaffected. The body is
an it rather than a me; just another object like furniture in a room. It
may seem comical that people still address the body as though it were
an individual you, but there is no way to explain this state of
awareness to the unaware.

It is best to just go about ones business and
allow providence to handle the social adjustment. However as one reaches
bliss, it is very difficult to conceal that state of intense ecstasy.
in this final apocalypse of the self, the dissolution of the sole
remaining duality of existence versus non existence dissolves in
Universal Divinity and no individual consciousness is left to chose.

The last step, then, is taken by God."

[Ernie Nemeth]

A few years ago I had the distinct pleasure of being invited to a weekend retreat called, "Getting real". Nothing could have prepared me or anyone else participating for what was to come. I will not go into the details except to say that on saturday afternoon, around five or so in the afternoon, we all died and were buried. We were then blindfolded and lead away, throught the woods to a small enclosure. We were tripping over each other, some of the girls began to panic. So we held on to each other and felt our way along in the dark, blindfolded. From there we had to find our way back to the living by saying our truth to an angel. Few made it through the first, second or even third time. People were getting very upset. It was time to go home but they would not let us out until we spoke our truth. I was so upset that I almost kicked in the door to get out but the angel of death restrained me. I was one of the last ones out, it was well after midnight by then.
Sunday was just a blurr after that.
I arrived home but decided to go see my daughter. At first she was apprehensive and asked me what was wrong. But there was nothing wrong, I was just utterly free of ego!
A few days later some of us from the weekend got together and we were all surprised that we were all still on cloud nine.
I went through the following week like a saint or a prophet, performing miracles wherever I went, healing complete strangers with a single glance. Spreading peace and love, and sharing eternal wisdom with one and all.
Ten days it lasted! Ten days of complete peace and utter tranquility. Oh, the miracles I witnessed those ten days still leave me breathless.
And then it was over, just like that. One day I woke up and the colors weren't bright anymore and the carefree attitude was replaced by agitation and apprehension. I tried to get it back but it was not to be.
Since then I have had my moments, even hours, but never anything like that ten days of bliss.
That is the state I yearn to attain. I even know what it feels like. I want that feeling. And this time I want it forever.
Peace

[greybeard]

Eckhart said "It is the nature of the enlightenment experience to come and then go",

That is just an experience of what it is like, anything that comes and goes is not it.

Thankfully mine was of short duration just a few days.

There was a sense of loss though and at first there was a yearning for the permanency of it, then I realized, desire is desire!!!!!!.

Enlghtenment is not a goal is not something to attain, in your true essence you are it,

Now where this is misleading is that it is your natural state, but in the sense that the caterpillar is in a different state, a different class from the the butterfly.

So you can shout I am enlightened, I am God, but its not your experience till it is, then it cant be spoken off.
It is not understandable to the unenlightened, there are no words or definition that does it justice.

Yet it is your essence.

Chris
Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Great information flowing here -- thank you everyone!

I posted the message below on another thread that got deleted, so I decided to repost it here:

An unchecked ego always seeks to separate and divide us with fear because it creates fear. Fear is what makes exceptions to separate or disconnect us from other minds. Our mind is so strong that we have the strength to look into another mind and see that both are the same. United, minds love. Separated, minds cannot love. Love is everything. Ego alone is nothing. Love has no conditions. Ego is diluted with conditions. No one who has love wants an unchecked ego for an unchecked ego represents delusion.

If truth is complete, then untruth cannot exist and reality cannot be unreal. As long as we have fear, we cannot love. As long as we have anger, we cannot love. As long as we have a self-seeking inflated ego, we cannot love. To receive love, we must first give love. To learn to love others, we must first accept and love our self. The only thing that can separate us from love is untruth. The only thing that can separate us from untruth is our self.

Namaste ~ Dan

[Beren]

"God gave you an ego let Him take it away."
Ramesh Balsekar.

The more you try the harder it gets.
You just let go the tug of war and surrender the ego and all else to God.

Namaste

I went with this; I thanked my ego and pain it caused for it made me realize of what kind of man I am. I thank the ego for giving me a chance to radiate and shine my truth ,that I am allowed to show of who I am not and who I am. I bless the ego as one of the essential tools in realization of higher self. Thank you but now is time for you(ego) to go in peace.

[Beren]

Great information flowing here -- thank you everyone!

I posted the message below on another thread that got deleted, so I decided to repost it here:

An unchecked ego always seeks to separate and divide us with fear because it creates fear. Fear is what makes exceptions to separate or disconnect us from other minds. Our mind is so strong that we have the strength to look into another mind and see that both are the same. United, minds love. Separated, minds cannot love. Love is everything. Ego alone is nothing. Love has no conditions. Ego is diluted with conditions. No one who has love wants an unchecked ego for an unchecked ego represents delusion.

If truth is complete, then untruth cannot exist and reality cannot be unreal. As long as we have fear, we cannot love. As long as we have anger, we cannot love. As long as we have a self-seeking inflated ego, we cannot love. To receive love, we must first give love. To learn to love others, we must first accept and love our self. The only thing that can separate us from love is untruth. The only thing that can separate us from untruth is our self.

Namaste ~ Dan


Love, love and see what happens!

[DeDukshyn]

Hi 9eagle9,
Thanks for the input. Your love has touched me. Still I feel it.
ACIM is nothing new to me. I have worked with that book for over ten years. I used to carry it with me wherever I went. I read it front to back at least five, six times, if not more. I made notes, did the course twice, the second time even sincerely dedicated. I have gone to workshops on ACIM. Even volunteered at weekend seminars. I even took a one year Practitioner's course. Not only that but I have written two books, both heavily influenced by ACIM. I am currently working on the third book of the set, "World Peace Manifesto".
I am a yoga teacher. I've read all the books I could get my hands on in this category including Marrianne Williamson and Eckert Tolle. I work with friends, family and even strangers, never forgetting the gifts they bring to me even if they have no clue about such things. I am doing the work.
I've done past regressive work. Spent a year gathering together everything anyone knew about me or my parents and family. From that I created our family tree and wrote my autobiography with special emphasis on events that changed my thinking or otherwise changed the trajectory of my life. Its all on paper. I know why I am who I think I am. Believe it or not I have been the catalyst for many others on the road to enlightenment. They have leaped-frogged way ahead of me but forgot to reach back down and take me with them...
I blame no one, though, except myself. Been through the blame game until there was no one left to blame but myself.
I've thrown my ACIM book in the trash six months ago. Tears come to my eyes as I say that. Never have I read a book so obviously inspired, so concise, so real. I miss it terribly. But the book had become my idol. It had to go.
I am very close now, but I have been saying that for years. My guides keep insisting there is so much more I can do if only I would surrender to love. Then they show me my possible future and I recoil at the blasphemy of it. I cannot even utter the magnificence, the magnitude of the one I could become. I will not accept it. It cannot be true. But if it is not true, if my guides are just the precursors of insanity, then everything I worked for, everything I have learned, is false. Then I am truly lost and hopelessly befuddled.
That is my dilemna. I am afraid of my power. I am not sure any more if I am not insane already.
Thanks again for your input.

I had to stop reading it myself. I know to this day that I will finish the course, but it seemed to me the further I got, the harder everything became. This was just what I perceived though. I realize now that you have to be in a constant state of instant forgiveness to really do the course properly or else your ego will take the course material and use it as ammo to further judge the world and find it guilty. It is a process. If it causes turmoil, that is actually GOOD. Turmoil causes inner reflection which causes learning in the truest sense - if you can hang in there - it is just a clearing process. Forgive yourself first - this is important. Good luck and hang in there with or without it - there are other ways available... I can relate ;-)

[9eagle9]

Might I ask if either of you did ACIM alone? Ernie & Dedukshyn? Not to say you had to be in a group or weekly meeting or anything but it helped me tremendously to have someone who was more versed in it than I to support me when the ego kicked in and wanted to retranslate the teachings. Consistently. In good times and when things 'seemed' to get worse. At least once- twice a week I spoke to someone and sometimes those conversations revolved around me screaming EFF OFF repeatedly .

GOD is GOD.
If you rearrange DOG a little it looks like GOD but isn't.
If you rearrange EGO a little it almost looks like GOD but most emphatically is not. It got the last letter wrong as it inevitably will. But almost would seem like God...in the way it seems to ALWAYS be there in our life rearranging things.Watching everything we do and making judgmental comments about it.

When things start to get worse it means the perception is stuck. I'm not actively reading or participating in the course work now but I make it a point to still to a call with a friend who teaches it at least once a week. We can't see our own crap. So we sit and point out in each other where the ego entrapment is creeping in. Like "I have to fix something in order for something in me to be fixed, so something (like a miracle) can happen" This is me following my own advice but my ego is twisting it. .Fortunately I work in ACIM based organization so when work gets hairy we are always there to support each other. So even though I'm not actively in course, most of my day is supported in ACIM and it still has been hard hard hard for me.

The course in miracles can give the impression that you should have no interest in life whatsoever and be obsessed only with being with god. And that you are somehow deficit if you aren't in that place at any given timeEgo of course, the course says no such thing but it can be translated as such by a faulty translator. Or that your life has no meaning. . "Why do you want to see the grand canyon when you can stay home with be with God?"

Surely I can take God to the Grand Canyon with me?

The ego starts to re-translate the ACIM for you and that's when things get worse or you get stuck. Happened to and happens to me ALOT.

[9eagle9]

The first thing that struck me when I read this was....Why doesn't he go back to 'Getting Real' Again. Or something similar. Reclamation ceremony or lodge. They may be conducted differently but they have the same effect as what you described.

And again.

And again and again forever amen?

Or did you try it again and it didn't have the same 'whooomph' the first one had?

[DeDukshyn]

1) Might I ask if either of you did ACIM alone? Ernie & Dedukshyn?

2) The ego starts to re-translate the ACIM for you and that's when things get worse or you get stuck. Happened to and happens to me ALOT.

1) 100% alone, in the midst of chaos.
2) It can be tough. And that's exactly it .. a re-translation...just so slightly - you have to be very observant. It's either all or nothing.

Addition: That's why I stopped .. wasn't ready and I recognised it. Since then though been on a few other paths. That's the beauty of enlightenment - it can come from a vast array of philosophies, experiences, etc.

<digs The Course back out>

[9eagle9]

The first time I picked it up years ago, alone, I tossed aside after a few weeks. I understood the concepts but it sounded horribly depressing. But I was already experiencing the precepts of it. Some of it stuck with me. I've never met a person who got engaged in and never returned to it. Sorta like trying to quit smoking...lol. Then it came round again and I stuck it out. I didn't do any of the practices I forced myself to read it like it, and reading it was like taking poison. I forced myself to think of it like taking spiritual medicine. I hated reading it. But everyday I did,kicking and screaming .It literally felt like a form of self punishment. No practices, reading it was bad enough. I don't think I even absorbed any of the content of the first chapters.

Neither do I remember how long I was reading it , not long, a few weeks maybe, when I just suddenly became aware of this DISTINCT division in my head. Like the angel sitting on the right and the devil on the left. One part of my mind was screaming "This **** SUUUUUCKS, put it down, it stooopid,!!! but the other part was completely entranced and absorbed in it. When you become aware of the ego voice its way easier to put a lid on it. After that I didn't have to force myself to read it, and I could start doing the practices and then the learning started becoming internal . But once I made that division the ego on one side the real me ...well the battle wasn't over but the war was won.

During that duration I was rather depressed, grumpy to say the least, even in a sort of despair at times but it didn't last long.

If you get out the Course again. I will too. I have often got half way through it and started over again. I didn't put any judgments on it; it was just something that needed to be done . If you feel troubled say something. . Someone will be here to support you.

[DeDukshyn]

The first time I picked it up years ago, alone, I tossed aside after a few weeks. I understood the concepts but it sounded horribly depressing. But I was already experiencing the precepts of it. Some of it stuck with me. I've never met a person who got engaged in and never returned to it. Sorta like trying to quit smoking...lol. Then it came round again and I stuck it out. I didn't do any of the practices I forced myself to read it like it, and reading it was like taking poison. I forced myself to think of it like taking spiritual medicine. I hated reading it. But everyday I did,kicking and screaming .It literally felt like a form of self punishment. No practices, reading it was bad enough. I don't think I even absorbed any of the content of the first chapters.

Neither do I remember how long I was reading it , not long, a few weeks maybe, when I just suddenly became aware of this DISTINCT division in my head. Like the angel sitting on the right and the devil on the left. One part of my mind was screaming "This **** SUUUUUCKS, put it down, it stooopid,!!! but the other part was completely entranced and absorbed in it. When you become aware of the ego voice its way easier to put a lid on it. After that I didn't have to force myself to read it, and I could start doing the practices and then the learning started becoming internal . But once I made that division the ego on one side the real me ...well the battle wasn't over but the war was won.

During that duration I was rather depressed, grumpy to say the least, even in a sort of despair at times but it didn't last long.

If you get out the Course again. I will too. I have often got half way through it and started over again. I didn't put any judgments on it; it was just something that needed to be done . If you feel troubled say something. . Someone will be here to support you.

Thats it. I'm doin it. You are my catalyst -- thank you my friend!!!!!!! I am in a different place than before .. I have confidence now .. I'll start back .. and keep you updated on my progress... hows that?

[genorose]

hello greybeard from genorose
i made my first post today
have not read any of your books yet - used to be avid reader but found it diverted me from what i needed to change in myself
first heard about you a few days ago by chance on the net
think i found a crosslink with you and findhorn
do you and or camelot/avalon have get togethers/seminars because at the moment i am still confused as to the best way to understand these things
my life has been spiritually transformed (ongoing process) but i could sure use a mentor/helpmates
i live in australia -born in uk -migrated to oz aged 23-hope to return to uk again soon-have relatives in england and scotland
consider my spiritual home as inverness -having spent some time there in 1996
not quite sure yet how to read/access any reply you might send to me
if i am allowed to give you my email address it is george_nrth@yahoo.com.au
in case i cannot find your response
yours sincerely
genorose

[DeDukshyn]

....Sometimes I expect to much of people.....
Namaste

Sometimes, I experience someone expecting far too much of me. Sometimes I I try to understand why. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I change. Sometimes for the overall good. Sometimes I don't question why, sometimes I expand ...... Sometimes I expect too much of someone else, Sometimes I try to understand why .. .......... ;-) ... nope its that lack of distinction again .... ;-) ... but it's all for the greater good. ;-)

[Ernie Nemeth]

"Might I ask if either of you did ACIM alone? Ernie & Dedukshyn? Not to say you had to be in a group or weekly meeting or anything but it helped me tremendously to have someone who was more versed in it than I to support me when the ego kicked in and wanted to retranslate the teachings. Consistently. In good times and when things 'seemed' to get worse. At least once- twice a week I spoke to someone and sometimes those conversations revolved around me screaming EFF OFF repeatedly ." by 9eagle9

I started the course alone. At the time I was doing advanced yoga work for my teachers designation - Kundalini yoga. I remember that, after about a week of Kundalini, I woke in the middle of the night to the most exquisite sensations running up and down my spine! The serpent uncoiled! It was like a spiritual orgasm - is the only way to describe it. The next day, while in a bookstore, ACIM practically jumped off the rack at me. Course in Miracles? my mind querried. That can only be good. So I bought it.
I was hooked from the first sentence on. I read the book in like two days, that first time. Then I read it slower a second time. A month or so after that I tried starting the daily lessons.
Not a week went by before my ego was completely outraged. Literally. I would yell and scream and turn red in the face at the slightest excuse. Then I started loosing jobs for the wierdest reasons, I won't go into. And then I totally screwed up my life, or so I thought, when I met my current girlfriend. I fell in love completely. Within a week, I broke up with my former girlfriend of ten years, left her the house and all my possessions except what would fit in my car, quit yoga, and moved in with this lady. She was, oh I cannot say because that is all over now, not in the best place in life - let's say. The next four years were a blur of joy and misery. I was arrested twice, the police were called to our apartment five times, my car was destroyed, blah, blah, blah. But I perservered, I would not let her break us up, and I constantly ministered to her. I am proud to say that we are still in love, seven years later and she has completely changed her life. It is a true miracle, the best thing I have ever done! But during this time it is I that have had to lower myself to a state from which I could relate to my woman. I have not recovered my former higher state of vibration. Now I am realizing that my girlfriend, in my estimation, is higher than I am.
How can I make this clear? My girlfriend has completely altered her thinking. She never gets upset any more, never raises her voice, always hugs me and tells me she loves me, talks about God with me, and on and on. She has reconnected with her estranged family and has begun ministering to her own sister who is still in a place where my girlfriend was when I met her. We have also taken in her own daughter (25?) and got her back in school because stripping for a living is not sustainable and downright demeaning. My girlfriend is a miracle.
But I digress.
Halfway through the course lessons, what with the trouble at home and the business crumbling I knew I had to find a support group - something I had never done before. I found a study group and began going. I made some friends and we supported each other. But what I quickly came to realize is that most if not all of them were not sincere about the work. They were there to find mates! DUH. That's how naive I can be sometimes. But the course teachers, a couple, were truly amazing, completely dedicated light workers. So I developed A relationship with them and volunteered for various things including seminars and classes.
I kept at it for over a year but my heart wasn't in it anymore because things were just getting worse in my life. So I quit going and lost contact with Paul and Jane. Actually, I was surprised and hurt that they never called, or any of those other students, to see what had happened to me.
After that all hell broke loose until, over a mere six-month period: I lost my electricians license, my driver's license, my business license and most of my income, I fell into debt of $150,000 and my ex-wife hit me with back child-support payments of another $50,000 (this when my daughter was already 21 years old, but I don't owe her - I did pay!). I was forced to move into a basement apartment to save money. We lived there for almost three years, hating every single moment of it. It was terrible, but it was all I could afford.
Still I would not give up the course and so my life just got worse and worse and worse. I lost my friends one after the other. Then I had to call in all the favors I had from my parents and sisters until that avenue was also exhausted. With no hope left and fearing loosing the roof over my head, I tossed ACIM in the trash.

[Ernie Nemeth]

"If you get out the Course again. I will too" by 9eagle9
If that was directed at me, I have to respectfully decline. Although as I write that I feel I may not mean it.
I will have to meditate on that one...
And pray.
Peace

[9eagle9]

I won't be offended, Ernie, if you decline but the offer is always open. I'm not an expert, no one is (if there were they wouldn't be here...lol) but we can always be a support. In regards to you and please dont' think I'm putting you under a microscope but I'm more curious why you never returned to "Getting Real" again. To reclaim your experience. I have to do sweat lodge regularly to reclaim, it supports me rather than takes the place of anything. To jump start my spiritual battery when it gets burdened by life's plug ins.

I agree with the point on ACIM groups, I've found them to be places of ego engagement and power struggles. I was looking for a place where people would be honest enough to say my ego was showing but was essentially told "There are no egos here we can't help you.." Lol. You have to find a safe place to do anything that goes for people in AA to whatever, because groups are composed of people, and people tend to group by vibration regardless of the content or intention of the group. But how does one know if they don't know. That's a given for any given spiritual community they become places of struggle I've found. . I stay away from groups myself, as I tend to stampede the herd, but a few people that support each and can be unafraid in the fear (as it were) more than replaces any sort of group.

My issue is exposing my vulnerability. I'm working on that.

[greybeard]

A.C.I.M. A course in miracles was a great help to me though I gave up on the text.
The daily lesson was enough.
Fortunately I live 28 miles from The Findhorn Foundation and they have a study group every Sunday which I attended for some time.

To be honest I got so much from the actual energy level created by the attendees, normally 7 of us rather than than the words.

People would arrive from every country under the Sun and they contributed greatly.

My honest opinion is that while the course has a great content, the words are the carrier of a very high spiritual energy,
that energy is multiplied by the debating it with fellow travlers in such a group. Some had been studying the course since it was printed.

Not being critical but it feel that the essence was more important than the detail.

When you get the essence you dont need the course but you may need the energy that you get from conversing with spiritual students.

I feel that the energy I speak of is contained in and contributed to by everyone who posts here,

Drink deeply of the essence contained in the posts the words are not really that important though accepting that they do have a relative value.

Truly we are the ones we have been waiting for.

Namaste

[9eagle9]

Sometimes, I experience someone expecting far too much of me. Sometimes I I try to understand why. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I change. Sometimes for the overall good. Sometimes I don't question why, sometimes I expand ...... Sometimes I expect too much of someone else, Sometimes I try to understand why .. .......... ;-) ... nope its that lack of distinction again .... ;-) ... but it's all for the greater good. ;-)

Lol.. I don't expect enough from people. I should too. I took the having 'no exectations' way to far. It just meant my lack of faith in people got re-translated. I used to get really bad with it because I'd just throw up barriers when people were around. One man asked me after several weeks of working elbow to elbow with him on a community project why after he shared all this intimate spiritual confession with me, why I wouldn't open up and reciprocate. lBeing in the place that I was at I said, "Well to be perfectly honest if you are in my personal space you're probably an @55hole. "

That taught me quite a lot, after I had time to reflect on it, when he didnt' get offended. He said, "You do yourself a great disservice." Which is probably self serving if one looks at it from a different angle.

[greybeard]

Problem with groups is that you do get the ones who think they know, if you think you know believe me you dont.

The course says " The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion"

The ego wants to label everything including the "me"
I am a spiritual person
I am seeking enlightenment.
I am a Buddhist look at the clothes I wear, it my uniform.
You that which you really are is beyond definition.

You are not a this or a that.

When you let go of all that, the Self is 100% present.
You listen without agenda,you are not wanting to jump in with your superior opinion.
Been there done it
Did I really listen, not really.

When you are 100% present you are in the famous NOW, everything is fresh and alive.

No self no problem ( that is the little self)

This meal is not compared with another.
There are no comparisons because everything is perfect in its own right.
The moment you compare yo go back in time you are not present you are lost in the wilderness of mind memory

When you are fully present
Judgment of another is redundant, judgment needs past and future.

The ego cant survive in the present moment.

Chris

[John Parslow]

Hello greybeard

I do not think we have been in contact before but I always enjoy reading your wonderful spiritual and compassionate posts and would just like to say we are privileged to have someone like you on the forum.

Best regards to you. JP :cool:

[Ernie Nemeth]

9eagle9.
Besides the exhorbitant cost, I do not know why I haven't been back.
I tried to reconnect with my teacher, Paul Gouldschmidt, but I haven't had success. Synchronicities have kept us apart. Is there a reason for this? Again, I do not know.
We were in discussion a few months back, we were going to start a website together. But he is a very busy man and we have not been able to hook up. Funny, though, he never calls me, only I call him. Why? I do not know.
Also, "Getting Real" is not a pleasant experience and it is very traumatic emotionally. Besides, the course works because of the mystery. You do not know what will happen next. That's its power. When, at the end of the weekend, you finally "Get It", that's when the transformation takes place. They do offer other courses, though, equally powerful, but equally expensive.
Okay, enough bull. I think the reason I haven't been back is because I resent how they just forgot about me when I left them. They never called me and I'm upset about that. I want an apology or at least an explanation.
About your "issue". Your vulnerability is your greatest strength. Let it out and you will be amazed at the results.
Peace

[9eagle9]

That works. After giving up the expectation of the sort of support I thought I wanted, giving it up, eventually the sort of support that I needed was brought to me. Actually giving up the expectation of what sort of experience I should be having at all probably contributed to that.

[Ernie Nemeth]

9eagle9.
The course is expensive, for one.
Also, the course relies on the mystery to be effective. You do not know what's going to happen next. It is only at the end of the weekend when you finally "get it" that the transformation occurs.
Besides that, I'm still upset that no one from that course ever bothered to call and find out why I had left. I know that's rather petulant but there it is.
About your issue: your vulnerability is actually your greatest strength. By revealing it, you may find that your vulnerability was just an ego construct to never look where your truth has been hiding all along.
Peace

¤=[Post Update]=¤

srry bout double post

[9eagle9]

Ernies's girlfriend could teach me lessons about reconnection with family. That will be the bravest thing I ever do.

[9eagle9]

@Ernie. Besides that, I'm still upset that no one from that course ever bothered to call and find out why I had left. I know that's rather petulant but there it is.

There's 360 degrees of ways to look at that.

The incomprehensible. You may be wiser than you know and they know it. Whether they know this and are allowing you the freedom to express that or they know it and may be intimidated by it or perhaps feel they have nothing more to offer you. If someone in my situation had a student like you that was walking around casting out miracles, I'd have to say welp,,,time to let them fly. That is for you to reflect on. Don't jump to conclusions just let it be there.

For all their fabulous work they have issues. I do fabulous work too, but i have issues...lol.

Or it may be a sign that portion of your spiritual growth is concluded with them and you are open to move on into whatever. (back to the miracle thing. Once you've connected someone well enough for them to be creating miracles...what is there left to teach?)


Spiritual teachers have a tendency not to pursue students for reasons with integrity and for reasons that are from woundedness.

I will tell you that no one was ever willing mentor or teach me. Those few that did did it half heartedly and failed to follow up and support me. And I had the same response as you. Like everything is happy happy when you're in the program but the moment you are out you cease to exist. Or perhaps to be of concern to them.

I finally arrived at the point that I had invested 'spiritual authority' in them and I was allowing their spiritual authority to override my own but only by my perception. Perhaps my self identity was tied up and dependant on them, I can't recall. I had to wake up to the fact that I was operating at somewhat different, call it a higher level, than my spiritual authorities and all the authority I needed was inside me. Not knowing how to deal with this (Is that ego or is it truth? ). How dare I think I know more than the current flavor of the month guru? Because I did. Because I wasn't a guru collecting people to follow me?

I gave it up to God. God just steer me where I am most supposed to be. And where I ended up at was shocking to me. A place I figured I might one day maybe arrive at in another forty years when my gray hair and lack of teeth had given me wisdom. ...that was my spiritual acceleration right there, beginning to realize I was making myself the eternal student to teachers who in actuality didn't have the experiences I did. Granted they were not threatened by me, but they couldn't understand me let alone continue to help me. You do understand when this was brought to me why I though it may be a ego trap? But the greatest expression of humility is allowing God to work through you without you doubting or assigning judgments..

When I had my own students ...well they wanted my attention. , I had dozens on board at any given time to follow up with all of them is exhausting and I tried to for a while till I realized that it was then an obligation. And my life was in shambles because I felt obligated to do nothing but check in on people. I didn't cook, the house was a mess, I was in a flither of consant phone calls and up to my hips in other people's problems. And realized they were co dependent on me and had their self identity tied up with me. I'm supposed to be teaching them self authority not depending on me. I cannot allow that the theft of self, that gives me authority over them that I am not entitled too. And maybe I went about it the wrong way in easing them off of me. Sometimes the way people deal with that is to cut off communication. I just had to be honest and say guys, I'm hear to support you but ...you must call me, because I can't keep track of everyone and still do my work. They wanted me to be their friend and well having 'friends' was a full time occupation that superceded everything else in my life. I did make it a point to completely support them when they made the attempt. When there was a real need. There's other things I learned from that.

But if you've put the hand out and they haven't reached for its not personal. They have their issues too. And it could be that you don't need to return to that place, perhaps place you need to return to is the 'feeling' of the experience, perhaps not the experience itself. There's easier and cheaper ways you can reclaim. I bet your girlfriend would be willing she sounds like an awesome support system on her own.

[Ernie Nemeth]

My girlfriend, Val, is an awesome support system. No doubt about it. And the remembered feeling of the experience is enough to evoke a return when the time is right.
In a way, I am doing the work by being here, on this forum. My time is very soon to arrive.
Your comment about having no mentors in your life sounds eerily familiar to me. I too used to say that - and its true, I didn't. But then I realized that my whole premise, from a very early age (12-14?) was that I would find my own truths because the PTB could not be trusted. I wonder, could you have had a similar train of thought? And it sounds to me, without really knowing you of course, that you have turned out quite okay without any true mentors. Me too. I'm okay, I'm even happy, believe it or not. I only get depressed if I dwell on the injustices of this society that I have let side-line me. But even that was my choice. I think I wanted it this way. So that when I finally drag my sorry @55 up out of this place I will be certain I have mastered this life. Also, I have never been sure if I want to be - famous. I'm afraid I may forget who I am because of the attention. Recently, I have decided that my contribution is needed - that the information I have was given to me to share with the world. It is not mine alone. An unshared idea is an illusion and I don't deal in illusion. Nor do I wish to delude myself into believing that what I have to give was somehow pulled into existence by sheer personal Herculean effort. No, what I know was given me to share.
Peace

[Ernie Nemeth]

"http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/downloads/How_I_06.pdf

@ Ernie. This is an interesting little read from a woman who not only broke her earthly contracts, debt, cc bills, taxes, but based it using the precepts used in ACIM. All of our life is about breaking contracts that don't serve us. Emotional, mental and physical agreements." by 9eagle9

I have read the book and was distinctly impressed. I have read parts of her work before. This is part of the freemen-on-the-land project I think, started by Robert Menard(?). I have an interest in this movement but have yet to formalize an action plan. Not sure if I am ready to go to jail, though. Been there once, one weekend, don't really wanna go back. She makes it sound easy to do but it is not. You have to be very careful what you say, how you act, and how far you want to take it. I've heard there are a few people who have contracted with the government for a one-time payout in exchange for their full release of any future funds drawn on their names from the SEC and the IMF. The payouts I've heard mentioned are in the six figure range.
Interesting concept, though. Especially how she ties it to the ACIM material. Good read...

[Star Gazer]

Great thread--I've been working my way through it over the past couple of days.

I would strongly recommend the book Storming Eastern Temples: A Psychological Exploration of Yoga. I think it ties in nicely to some of the topics being discussed here.

[greybeard]

If you are new to thoughts on enlightenment or the ego please take time to read page 1
Best if you then follow on through all the pages.

The Enlightenment thread has been there since the early days and has enjoyed many visits.

Its not my thread I just started it but it is open door to all, always has been always will be.


To my mind the only answer is raising of consciousness, David Icke David Wilcox, Mercer, Nassim. Eckhart Tolle says that, many others besides.

Problem is people are not in the main visiting the spiritual section.

There were over a 1000 here the other night 30 in the spiritual section

So they are looking to fix the world in a physical way.

You cant sort a problem with the same energy that create it.

Every physical remedy has been tried with only limited success.

Believe me you are the answer, you come right, you let go of fear, your "goodness" radiates forth lifting those near to you, they in turn lift others.

There was a thank you video where one man said thank you to all he met, he was treated with suspicion at first but bit by bit it affected all.

You smile at one person lift them, it can make their day, they make others happy, because you made them feel good.

Acknowledge the person at the check out, they are not a number, a convenience, they are just like you.
Not saying make a big deal of it thats patronizing.
Treat all others as you wish you be treated.
If there is an answer thats it.

You are the first ripple in the water from the stone falling in, one ripple becomes two and on it goes.

Happy people are not grasping, controlling, only unhappy insecure people,spread discontent,
Happy people, share without looking for return. Its just a natural manifestation of what they are.
Be secure know that you are loved by That which created you,

The body will fall away but you are beyond that fragility.

You are free, bondage control an illusion and only can only be so if you believe you are the body.
Change your thoughts change your mind change your world,.

Enlightenment is not about waking up.
That means to me all the conspiracy things uncovering that kind of truth, which has its place.
Enlightenment is not about gaining things its about removing all obstacles to finding the truth about you.
You find what you are you, you find God.
The two are inseparable.
Chris

[9eagle9]

Being sort of out of context with the thread, I had to internally disconenct from from the Grid, Game, System, Matrix before i attempted to do it on an external level. What keeps you connected fear. Usually fear based in the future. The Holographic or mind project world we live in is all based on fear, its imposed on us, we project it back out--sorta viscious circle there. I had to get rid of the fear of anything which was mostly nothing. Most of fear space is taken up by not actual events in the present but what ifs about the future.

Back in the dark ages (lol) of my twenties -early thirties, I try to back to that place and when I do I was a person that was just rigid with fear. About everything. About nothing really just things 'that might happen' but I was also operating under the great God guilt complex as well. So progress has been made. Once I had nothign left to lose I realized I never had anything to lose in the first place.

I have been in jail, it wasn't pleasant. It was least pleasant for my jailers. Imagine being man handled and processed into a jail cell by fine upright Christian citizens who are serving public safety and then they take your ID just before slamming the door and find out your a minister. Lol. Oh boy their own god guilt complex kicks in." I don't have to say a word to nudge it along either I just let them create it in their heads. They've just manhandled and spoke abusively to a 'person of god." Pretty soon person of god is out on the street again, way faster than those who aren't authorized to be in gods' authority. Silly, yes. Everyone has god's authority and a peice of plastic doesn't change that. But ....its all perception.


Nothing has changed but their perception though. I keep in mind always they are more frightened of me in my wholer state than I am of them in their woundedness.



"http://www.davidickebooks.co.uk/downloads/How_I_06.pdf

@ Ernie. This is an interesting little read from a woman who not only broke her earthly contracts, debt, cc bills, taxes, but based it using the precepts used in ACIM. All of our life is about breaking contracts that don't serve us. Emotional, mental and physical agreements." by 9eagle9

I have read the book and was distinctly impressed. I have read parts of her work before. This is part of the freemen-on-the-land project I think, started by Robert Menard(?). I have an interest in this movement but have yet to formalize an action plan. Not sure if I am ready to go to jail, though. Been there once, one weekend, don't really wanna go back. She makes it sound easy to do but it is not. You have to be very careful what you say, how you act, and how far you want to take it. I've heard there are a few people who have contracted with the government for a one-time payout in exchange for their full release of any future funds drawn on their names from the SEC and the IMF. The payouts I've heard mentioned are in the six figure range.
Interesting concept, though. Especially how she ties it to the ACIM material. Good read...

[greybeard]

The ego is not the enemy and was necessary to our survival.
It was born out of the need to see this and that as separate from our
true self. ie what is edible what is not, what leads to pleasure what
leads to pain. What is dangerous to us.
Unfortunately the useful servant became a bad master.

In short it is a separation device.
It grows stronger by perceiving an enemy.
It would die for its point of view.
All wars come out of a difference of opinion.
I am right therefore you must be wrong is typical of the egoic thought.


In simplicity the ego is just self buying into and believing in the me story in the head.

Ego is all belief systems all programing all positional.

The moment a position is held its an identification with an illusion.

its ok to have a point of view but its a mistake to believe that it is more valid than other possible points of view.

What is left when the ego is transcended?

Enlightenment is what is left.

An ego-less state.

Chris

[greybeard]

I was wrong Original PA had 6378 members,. 250908 posts, 18004 threads.

This version just over 2710 members, 118838 posts, 11187 threads

I thought this version had more members but no just a higher % of people posting.

High percentage no of threads for no of members here.

Just ruminating.

I got it.
The number were large because we were united by the Ground Crew Concept.
There was as much excitement as generated by the entry of Charles here.

C

[greybeard]

Ground Crew projects, sustainable communities.


I was wrong
Original PA was larger than this one It had 6378 members,. 250908 posts, 18004 threads.

This version just over 2710 members, 118838 posts, 11187 threads

I thought this version had more members but no just a higher % of people posting.

High percentage no of threads for no of members here.

Just ruminating.

I got it.
The number were large because we were united by the Ground Crew Concept.
There was as much excitement as generated by the entry of Charles here.

C

[chelmostef]

I got it.
The number were large because we were united by the Ground Crew Concept.
There was as much excitement as generated by the entry of Charles here.

C

I think you are right there, it was a special place too, its a shame what happen... But the concept still lives on :)



You can lead a horse to water springs to mind!

[Maria Stade]

Hallo Greybeard I like to thank you for this link I go in her every day to rest in noige and wisdom !
Yes we are many new here and I am like you Dyslectic and this is a forin language for me to so I get tired.
I think Charles made many scared We all tend to have some untreted fear LOL
I belive also that lots of untreated fears and carmik things are relised in this prosess so it will be for the better good to all in the end.
Love and light to you.
Keep up the good work all real peace starts with in !
Varm Hug / Maria

[chelmostef]

I am like you Dyslectic

Yes and me too, im sure we do make up for this in other ways though!

I do have a bit of an advantage as im english, if I had to write in norwegian, I would be in slight bother!! So you do very well!

I fly the Norwegian flag as that is were i am residing :)

[greybeard]

hi Guys
Winston Churchill was dyslexic too.
Look where it got him.
Think we have a different way of processing things.
I had a problem with numbers 9 became 6.
I developed a way of adding and subtracting numbers to get to the right answer.
I tended to multibly everything by ten then then subtract what was a guess then bingo it was right wierd.
I confused my teachers on end.
I left with not even an O level. Yet they knew I had an itillect.
No one knew of Dyslexia at that time.

C

[Merkaba360]

Wouldn't we just be able to have many interpretations. Freedom to perceive however desired?

It seems there is a functional part of "ego" that allows us to interact with the interface. Or is this unnecessary?

When i experienced the "earths energy boost" , while driving, it was difficult to function when 3D was somewhat collapsing to 2D. Moving my arm was no longer programmed, I guess i had to consciously move it. The weird thing is this, the more automatic bodily responses seemed more convenient.

I don't know what i'm trying to get across. This question might give it light. Can, "I" just slip into perceiving a totally new world and fractally, this "former me" is still here because its really just 'the one' all along playing all parts. But like water droplets, we can seemingly divide and create something new without losing any of the old.

hmm. I wonder on the usefulness or role of ego after "awakening." The idea of controlled folly. Everything is balanced and empty so no desire left. But control folly allows us to act and use ego to pretend we care to effect an outcome. Nothing matters, so I create love because i can.

i know thats random stuff , but having a hard time getting things out atm. :)

[Ernie Nemeth]

When I first began going to groups to work on the ACIM material I was asked by the instructor to read a book called Illusions, by Richard Bach. I remember it was a good book but that's about it. But there was a part in it about a student of a master that advanced to the point where he managed to manifest a feather out of thin air. Well, I got fixated on this idea. I would meditate for long periods and then reach up, eyes still closed, fully expecting my hand to grasp a feather. At odd times I would just think, okay, now! - and reach for that ellusive feather. I kept it up for about a week with no success. When next I went to class I was really depressed. It must have been obvious because the teacher asked me what was wrong. So I told him I had failed his test. He asked, "What test?" So I told him I could not make a feather appear. He was stunned. I said what was the point of trying to transcend if I couldn't even make a lousy feather appear. Without a word, Paul, my teacher, got up and left the room. We heard him rumaging about in the other room for a bit. Paul came back into the room and walked over to me. He handed me a beautiful dark blue feather, and said, "There, can we now move on?" Everyone laughed. After a bit, so did I.
Peace

[Maria Stade]

Merkaba wrote


hmm. I wonder on the usefulness or role of ego after "awakening." The idea of controlled folly. Everything is balanced and empty so no desire left. But control folly allows us to act and use ego to pretend we care to effect an outcome. Nothing matters, so I create love because i can.


Halo friend ! :wub:

Yes there is not much talk about what to do when the ego go !

Where you are is consiussness and it can take time to find the one that is You !

The fals ego is no more and You wonder what am I !

Rest and take it easy there is a lot happening whit you now !

Yes we need some kind of ego to funktion in this world it will come just trust your self.

Play with what you enjoy maby things you did when you was a yonger !

Big hug

All Love

[DeDukshyn]

"The smarter you are, if smart is measured in IQ, the longer this process will take. IQ is based on thinking. IQ is based on a time/space reality." by allhealing.
No wonder it is taking me so long to reach enlightenment...

I've concluded to myself that intelligence can NOT be learned. You are born with all the intelligence you need. This cannot be expressed though until you know "things" or "knowledge"(in the traditional sense). Then, as you gain more and more "Knowledge" and "language" you can start to express your intelligence. IQ is based on tests of REASON not knowledge. That's why they tend to work for everyone regardless of their knowlegde or language skills. Keep in mind here that "Knowledge" and "language" are actually restrictors of intelligence. That which is ineffible due to a lack of either of these becomes the things we cannot speak of; but does not imbede intelligence. This is distinction really helps when just learning not to judge your brothers - we truly are all equal.

I was reading this again and decided to add that thinking is not what you want to do. In fact it stops one from "being" quite often. The reason is that thinking is nearly always made of constructs outside of the "now", and enlightenment happens when you are in the now. I find thinking can be counter productive, or at best, used specifically as your "tool" when needed and not allow it to take you from the now.

[MariaDine]

Hi friends
To put it into context.
There are two kinds of ego.
One as defined by the Medical/ Psychiatric profession.
is Healthy self esteem.
It is good to take pride in the way we do things.
When one is comfortable with oneself and what one does then fear decrease and it is easy to be in this world with all its trials and tribulations at that point there is an over lap into the second definition of ego, the spiritual one.

The ego in spiritual terms could be defined as "Edge God Out"
Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

There were some very good contributions to this thread on Avalon and I hope that the same will apply here.
Celine has said that the complete thread from Avalon will be reposted here but there are technical problems in doing this at the moment, hopefully these will be resolved.
Time being fresh insights are very welcome.
Chris
Namaste.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yZ0M1pWD44&feature=related

[DeDukshyn]

Merkaba wrote


hmm. I wonder on the usefulness or role of ego after "awakening." The idea of controlled folly. Everything is balanced and empty so no desire left. But control folly allows us to act and use ego to pretend we care to effect an outcome. Nothing matters, so I create love because i can.


Halo friend ! :wub:

Yes there is not much talk about what to do when the ego go !

Where you are is consiussness and it can take time to find the one that is You !

The fals ego is no more and You wonder what am I !

Rest and take it easy there is a lot happening whit you now !

Yes we need some kind of ego to funktion in this world it will come just trust your self.

Play with what you enjoy maby things you did when you was a yonger !

Big hug

All Love

I would also like to add that I believe the ego is useful to us a tool. Focusing in and taking a specifc stance when the situation calls for it. The issue is that our belief system defines the stance of our ego and in the current paradigm our belief systems are rigid. We are taught from birth to be this way and have very rigid belief systems. In fact we even call down those who are more dynamic - especially in politics. The "rigidity" of our experiences is pretty much directly proportional to the rigidity of our belief systems and thus, our ego. In a "proper" state of being (but still physical), I believe our belief systems will be mostly non existent, but a tool for us to use when focusing on specific tasks for example, and thus that will be our relationship with our ego. We will be the ego's master and call upon it when a specific focus is needed, rather than us be slaves to our ego, as is mostly the very present (and I say very because I don't think it will last much longer ;-). I also regard time in this construct.

[genorose]

hi greybeard from genorose -new member
thankyou for your short post/thread
i hope to meet you one day soon at your convenience
i served in the military for 6 years and the mental health issues afterwards rebuilt me
the ego seems to have an insatiable appetite for information about itself
but this is about what we are not about what we know - the false zero being switched off and the true one switched on
no debate -either it is or it is not - false conscious self or pure non conscious self
that's why we got kicked out of reality it seems because we became self conscious gods and the one true god will have none other than him/herself
i am not religious but deepy spititual -this is my life
yours sincerely
genorose

[ace]

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the invitation, finally made it over.
going to take me a little time to catch up, (looks like I have 33 pages of interesting reading)

I will hold back at this point "in any offering"
as I would like to take on board and digest what is here.

Then I will put a long on the fire, lose my self in the flames
and report back!

Looking forward.....

Regards

Ace

[Ernie Nemeth]

"I was reading this again and decided to add that thinking is not what you want to do. In fact it stops one from "being" quite often. The reason is that thinking is nearly always made of constructs outside of the "now", and enlightenment happens when you are in the now. I find thinking can be counter productive, or at best, used specifically as your "tool" when needed and not allow it to take you from the now." by DeDukshyn

I know that is true for me. I like this forum because it stills my mind. Even with twelve years of meditation my mind jumps into high gear any time I am not engaging it. And it is filled with commentary about my fears, my lacks, the slights against my person, the worldwide conspiracy, etc.
I read five books at a time so that if I get bored of one I can reach for another before my mind goes off on yet another self-destructive tangent. I have music playing constantly for the same reason. But if I walk down the hall to make a cup of coffee, or wait to catch the bus, or take a shower or any other activity not directly engaging my mind, it immediately attacks me. So sad, too bad.

[sleepydumpling]

hi everyone I'm fairly new on here and slowly making my way through all the pages, just over half way through .
I'm taking my time trying to digest it all so i wont post again until i have caught up and have a better understanding
I have come to realize i have been arrogant thinking i was right about things but now know that was just my beliefs
and beliefs can change .
thank you greybeard for starting this thread and i love reading your posts , and thank you to everyone else for some
great information. my head is spinning but in a good way. have a great day.

[ace]

Very interesting read,

I have a couple of questions. probably simple and basic.

Q- Is ego part of our natural birth state. ( or is it something that is developed, conditioned in to us)

Q-Once ego has been transcended ( I know this could take years) is it a constant battle to keep it at bay.
our does it no longer interfere with us?

Q-Is a small amount of ego good for us ( if harnessed in the correct way)

Q- What would be the correct way to, A- identify ego B- methods to reduce it.

Ace

[Maria Stade]

DeDukshyn wrote
I would also like to add that I believe the ego is useful to us a tool. Focusing in and taking a specifc stance when the situation calls for it. The issue is that our belief system defines the stance of our ego and in the current paradigm our belief systems are rigid. We are taught from birth to be this way and have very rigid belief systems. In fact we even call down those who are more dynamic - especially in politics. The "rigidity" of our experiences is pretty much directly proportional to the rigidity of our belief systems and thus, our ego. In a "proper" state of being (but still physical), I believe our belief systems will be mostly non existent, but a tool for us to use when focusing on specific tasks for example, and thus that will be our relationship with our ego. We will be the ego's master and call upon it when a specific focus is needed, rather than us be slaves to our ego, as is mostly the very present (and I say very because I don't think it will last much longer ;-). I also regard time in this construct.

I wouldnt know about belives as I have more been like an ateist in my way to think of different belive systems and religions.
The ego has been kreated to fitt in the world, a false person like someone acting in a film.
The true self is not bound by what others belive or think or like.

After avakening many feels like going around in a vacum the thougts are silent and all grabbing and whanting has gone.
All that is special for the individ is still there but the will to be in false game have disaparied.

To be enlightened has nothing to do with any religion it can be done by everyone.

There is many ways "tecnices" to come in contact with the self some are learned by techers gurus and masters.

But it is possible to do it all by one self !

My own storry was trough pain and I did whant to die in the end !

The way is by start lisstening to one self and I do not meen the chatter in the head "thats the fals ego " Im talking about lissten to ones feelig and use them as a guid.

To be in the now allways and lissten to the own system !

Meditation silence the mind and this is important for the conection with self.

Now meens not thinking about the future and not thinking about the past.

To be fully and compleatly in the now.

Not escaping the now with TV and fiction lives, not escaping with drugs, not escaping by projekting on things arround.

To be in the full contact with self as it is how ever it is.

You are what you are and that is the only thing you need to be.

Perfect by creation a divine being !

Find your self and let all fals go down the drain.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El3O2FeOFH4

I Love you because I know Your orgin !
We are one !

Remeber your self and who you are !

A being with non ending LOVE

Namaste

[9eagle9]

Good question. A lot of people seem to think that at birth we have no sense of separation from our mother until independent behaviors are taught. Like making an infant cry themselves to sleep alone. They seem to think this is where the ego has begun to be formed or perhaps its latent and its triggered during that time. Twins in particular seem for a long time to have no self individualization until they are taught they are different. Not to say this the way it is but I found it interesting.

Once that sense of division is felt and you can pull yourself back into the present its not really a battle but just rechecking your state of mindfulness.

People who are very powerfully shamanic will move up and down deliberately choosing if they will be a ego present state or move up levels to where they are disengaged from it. If one were to stay up there all the time communication would be difficult between people who only know ego language. Not that the ego is in control its just allowed to be present. In knowing what the ego is all about and knowing that it won't just step in and take control of things would seem to be a means of harnessing it.


Very interesting read,

I have a couple of questions. probably simple and basic.

Q- Is ego part of our natural birth state. ( or is it something that is developed, conditioned in to us)

Q-Once ego has been transcended ( I know this could take years) is it a constant battle to keep it at bay.
our does it no longer interfere with us?

Q-Is a small amount of ego good for us ( if harnessed in the correct way)

Q- What would be the correct way to, A- identify ego B- methods to reduce it.

Ace

[greybeard]

Very interesting read,

I have a couple of questions. probably simple and basic.

Q- Is ego part of our natural birth state. ( or is it something that is developed, conditioned in to us)

Q-Once ego has been transcended ( I know this could take years) is it a constant battle to keep it at bay.
our does it no longer interfere with us?

Q-Is a small amount of ego good for us ( if harnessed in the correct way)

Q- What would be the correct way to, A- identify ego B- methods to reduce it.

Ace
Answers to the best of my understanding at this moment

Answer to?
(1), We are born with capability to be susceptible to having an ego..

(2) The ego can come back, particularly with spiritual teachers believing their own press.
the exception being those who have walked through the final door, there are levels of enlightenment.
Death of ego is final.

(3) Not to confuse ego with self esteem which is good

(4A) examine your motives -- agenda -- whats in it for you?

(4B) be aware of what you are doing and saying, look for pay value and surrender the pay value to God.
if you don believe in a God just realize that most of what you say think and do is repetitive, dont get pulled into the mind.
when you are in mind you are no longer present you are else here
be kind to you forgive you, stay in the present moment. Dont get hauled into past and future.


Ego was necessary to know what was helpful to your survival now we are evolved to the degree that every experience that ever happened to any one is recorded in the field of consciousness. The enlightened one is all knowing not perhaps in detail but in essence. They know not to walk in front of cars without having to be told so to speak.
They live in a state where ego is redundant,
Its like comparing recording on tape analogue, with digital.
Ego is old fashioned, it served its purpose time to move on.

How?
We dont need dualistic thinking, perceive in terms of a sliding scale, more or less of x.

Back to brilliant light, bright light, dim the light is out, non existent,
Dark absence of light. Cant shine dark.

Nothing is better than, just different than.

All questions, debate and answers welcome.

I loved grasshopper, in the early stages opposites are needed. Pain is necessary to feel relief or compassion.

Now all these experiences are in the data bank of consciousness, duality is no longer required for us to express love, understanding compassion.

We just know what is required, thought is not needed but can be used, no explanation is required to prompt positive action or emotion

see it simple.

Chris

Ps Humility to know that one does not have the level of spiritual vibration to bring about change.
What can not be lifted with ordinary spiritual muscle is feather weight and lifted/changed effortlessly by The Divine.

That why the AA group is so successful at helping people to sobriety.
Dr's couldn't, love of family couldn't, fear of death couldn't. the spiritual energy in an AA meeting is enormous and does it.
You need the humility to accept that you are powerless over your addiction and ask for help and mean it. ie Let go let God
Chris

[DeDukshyn]

"I was reading this again and decided to add that thinking is not what you want to do. In fact it stops one from "being" quite often. The reason is that thinking is nearly always made of constructs outside of the "now", and enlightenment happens when you are in the now. I find thinking can be counter productive, or at best, used specifically as your "tool" when needed and not allow it to take you from the now." by DeDukshyn

I know that is true for me. I like this forum because it stills my mind. Even with twelve years of meditation my mind jumps into high gear any time I am not engaging it. And it is filled with commentary about my fears, my lacks, the slights against my person, the worldwide conspiracy, etc.
I read five books at a time so that if I get bored of one I can reach for another before my mind goes off on yet another self-destructive tangent. I have music playing constantly for the same reason. But if I walk down the hall to make a cup of coffee, or wait to catch the bus, or take a shower or any other activity not directly engaging my mind, it immediately attacks me. So sad, too bad.

Ernie, for me, listening to music without lyrics helps me alot (instrumental, baroque, electronica, etc). It engages my mind but because there is no words, there is no connection between the words and the emotional response they cause (how the ego uses your emotions), so I find it leaves my mind in a very refreshed state. I always felt this and have been drawn to instrumental music, and more recently don Miguel Ruiz also stated the same take on music. Practicing "The Four Agreements" themselves I found helpful in this aspect as well.

(Also, the "Reply with Quote" button adds the little quotation box for you. hope that helps!)

[9eagle9]

Healers used their music based on that principle. Not using music that has repetitive patterns or beats to it for that very reason.

There is a lot to be said for drumming but percussion seems to have a beneficial effect in spite of the measured beats.




"I was reading this again and decided to add that thinking is not what you want to do. In fact it stops one from "being" quite often. The reason is that thinking is nearly always made of constructs outside of the "now", and enlightenment happens when you are in the now. I find thinking can be counter productive, or at best, used specifically as your "tool" when needed and not allow it to take you from the now." by DeDukshyn

I know that is true for me. I like this forum because it stills my mind. Even with twelve years of meditation my mind jumps into high gear any time I am not engaging it. And it is filled with commentary about my fears, my lacks, the slights against my person, the worldwide conspiracy, etc.
I read five books at a time so that if I get bored of one I can reach for another before my mind goes off on yet another self-destructive tangent. I have music playing constantly for the same reason. But if I walk down the hall to make a cup of coffee, or wait to catch the bus, or take a shower or any other activity not directly engaging my mind, it immediately attacks me. So sad, too bad.

Ernie, for me, listening to music without lyrics helps me alot (instrumental, baroque, electronica, etc). It engages my mind but because there is no words, there is no connection between the words and the emotional response they cause (how the ego uses your emotions), so I find it leaves my mind in a very refreshed state. I always felt this and have been drawn to instrumental music, and more recently don Miguel Ruiz also stated the same take on music. Practicing "The Four Agreements" themselves I found helpful in this aspect as well.

(Also, the "Reply with Quote" button adds the little quotation box for you. hope that helps!)

[greybeard]

It does my heart good to see so many new friends posting here.
I really hope to retire and hope that the thread continues without me. (theres an ego statement but at least I know it lol)
When the thread started way back in Avalon 1 there was a commitment made to it by myself.
At that time there were a lot people posting on it there so it was easier to keep going.
Almost two years on its coming in to a fresh wave of people.
Very happy

The original thread is still available read only here. 36 pages of it
Have a look many great contributions, discussions

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18206


Chris

[greybeard]

Good morning good ship Avalon
May God bless all who sail in her]
Namaste

[ace]

its safe to say i could define the ego
as the action of separation
from this moment....?

Ace

[greybeard]

its safe to say i could define the ego
as the action of separation
from this moment....?

Ace

I think that is very astute Ace.
Yes the ego needs past and future to survive.
Clock time is ok in that we make appointments in this moment for a possible future event ie meeting someone, planing a holiday.

its as thought we have a working mind and that is a practicality, We dont have to work out how to drive the car anew every time we just do it.

Its the judgmental mind we dont need

a story Ramesh Balsekar told.

A surgeon was doing an operation he had done many time effortlessly.
His assistant said
"Do you know who this is, its the Mayor of wherever and if we screw this one up we are in big trouble we will never get another rich private patient
again,"
The surgeons hand faltered now he was under pressure his egoic mind looking to the future.

He was not as competent as he was when he was fully present.

So yes you are right Ace and being in the NOW is very practical and efficient.

Chris

[sleepydumpling]

I have read through the entire thread about the ego and read a few posts saying the ego is part of you and needs to be tamed.
I agree with that and like anything to get good at something take practice
and patience , i do not know much about it but that feels right to me.
for a while now i have been trying to meditate with no success, i could never quiet my mind chatter but have just kept on regardless
and last night i tried again and for the first time i managed to just concentrate on my breathing , all the noise went quiet, it was if i was observing it
then i felt pure peace and warmth and with my eyes closed everything became bright .
it never lasted for long but felt amazing , i have had a big smile on my face all day today.
that is the first time that has happened , and I want to thank all of you for the wonderful info and ideas you have shared .
I think that has helped me more than i know.
I still have lots to learn and understand about the ego but just thought i would share that
have a great day everyone

[greybeard]

I have read through the entire thread about the ego and read a few posts saying the ego is part of you and needs to be tamed.
I agree with that and like anything to get good at something take practice
and patience , i do not know much about it but that feels right to me.
for a while now i have been trying to meditate with no success, i could never quiet my mind chatter but have just kept on regardless
and last night i tried again and for the first time i managed to just concentrate on my breathing , all the noise went quiet, it was if i was observing it
then i felt pure peace and warmth and with my eyes closed everything became bright .
it never lasted for long but felt amazing , i have had a big smile on my face all day today.
that is the first time that has happened , and I want to thank all of you for the wonderful info and ideas you have shared .
I think that has helped me more than i know.
I still have lots to learn and understand about the ego but just thought i would share that
have a great day everyone

Thanks for sharing

several have had similar experiences since visiting this thread I wonder why?

Takes time for the mind to go quiet and even if it dosnt thats ok Just dont talk to it just be aware without expectation.

Very Happy.

Chris

[GoldenYears]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the invite! Im still trying to read through the pages...Im getting there!

I think that "self-importance" is a big aspect of the ego. I guess maybe not focusing energy or attention on your self-importacne might be a way to transcend ego? Or has this already been mentioned? or maybe Im way off in my thinking.

[shiva777]

go beyond the simplistic "ego" understandings that Chris and many others have shared here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSpa2odMu4&feature=related

[greybeard]

go beyond the simplistic "ego" understandings that Chris and many others have shared here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSpa2odMu4&feature=related

Hi Shiva777 simple thats as maybe but the having applied the suggestions herein I am not ego less but have a quiet mind and am at peace with the world.
So not talking theory but what ever worked for me.
Im open so am downloading the video to watch later.

Regards Chris

[Ernie Nemeth]

go beyond the simplistic "ego" understandings that Chris and many others have shared here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSpa2odMu4&feature=related

For me the whole point is that I have made it too complicated. More and more I feel that I have set up a scenario where my ego is on one side, allowed to rant and rave, while I can transcend it and access my higher self at will. This dichotomy is intolerable to me but I understand it is part of the process.
It is simply a matter of merging the two into one.
Peace

[greybeard]

go beyond the simplistic "ego" understandings that Chris and many others have shared here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBSpa2odMu4&feature=related

For me the whole point is that I have made it too complicated. More and more I feel that I have set up a scenario where my ego is on one side, allowed to rant and rave, while I can transcend it and access my higher self at will. This dichotomy is intolerable to me but I understand it is part of the process.
It is simply a matter of merging the two into one.
Peace

Simplistic is easy.
If we think something is perceived as hard we use expressions like

I will give it my best shot
I will try very hard.

All doomed to failure.

Regardless of whether you want to tame subdue or transcend the ego you will not do it by your own efforts alone.
you need the humility to ask the Divine for help.

Shiva777 has a history here of giving very long and complex and expensive methods invented by (Ashana Dene? cant spell) debate rumbled on for months.
Very few for.
Anyway you pay your penny you make your choice.

Im happy for Shiva777 to post here, the door is open to all.

I appreciate all points of view but dont necessarily agree with all.

Chris
Namasre

[Smoke Me A Kipper]

I have read through the entire thread about the ego and read a few posts saying the ego is part of you and needs to be tamed.
I agree with that and like anything to get good at something take practice
and patience , i do not know much about it but that feels right to me.
for a while now i have been trying to meditate with no success, i could never quiet my mind chatter but have just kept on regardless
and last night i tried again and for the first time i managed to just concentrate on my breathing , all the noise went quiet, it was if i was observing it
then i felt pure peace and warmth and with my eyes closed everything became bright .
it never lasted for long but felt amazing , i have had a big smile on my face all day today.
that is the first time that has happened , and I want to thank all of you for the wonderful info and ideas you have shared .
I think that has helped me more than i know.
I still have lots to learn and understand about the ego but just thought i would share that
have a great day everyone

Thanks for sharing

several have had similar experiences since visiting this thread I wonder why?

Takes time for the mind to go quiet and even if it dosnt thats ok Just dont talk to it just be aware without expectation.

Very Happy.

Chris


First I'd like to say hello and that I'm so glad to finally be here. Although I'm new to Avalon, Avalon is not new to me. Like most newbies, I have been following this amazing forum for a number of years and I'm a huge fan of both Bill & Kerry.

And like most of us newbies I came out of the shadows because of the Charles Materials. But that's not the only reason.

What I'm really interested in is meditation, both for its benefit to general well-being and for spiritual development. I have been trying various types, off and on for about the last 10 years without success. I was going to ask for help or guidance but having read sleepydumping's post I think I'll follow that example and read through this thread first. I'll let you know how I get on. Please feel free to offer any pointers you might think appropriate. It would be most appreciated.

Blessings to All

Smoke Me A Kipper

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

Hello. I find that Jack Kornfeld writes with great widsom, humor and insight and his two books "A Path With Heart" and "The Wise Heart" helped give me a starting point for my own meditation and awareness. I do believe all important change begins from the inside out - peace to you! Namaste.

[Ernie Nemeth]

"Regardless of whether you want to tame subdue or transcend the ego you will not do it by your own efforts alone.
you need the humility to ask the Divine for help." by Greybeard

I have a great deal of trouble with that. I feel I am not sincere when I ask. I think I still hold guilt from leaving my childhood religion at age 14. Also I still hold resentment for not being helped by the Divine in my times of need. Real or imagined, that is my plight.

(find it hard to use the reply with quote when I only want one or two lines from a quote.)

Peace

[greybeard]

"Regardless of whether you want to tame subdue or transcend the ego you will not do it by your own efforts alone.
you need the humility to ask the Divine for help." by Greybeard

I have a great deal of trouble with that. I feel I am not sincere when I ask. I think I still hold guilt from leaving my childhood religion at age 14. Also I still hold resentment for not being helped by the Divine in my times of need. Real or imagined, that is my plight.

(find it hard to use the reply with quote when I only want one or two lines from a quote.)

Peace

Hi Ernie im not technical either
I just put the whole quote the delete what I dont want but get that wrong from time to time.
No doubt thee is an easier way.

In AA we use Higher Power rather than the word God.
Or Higher Self.
When I say God I mean my personal perspective not the judgmental old testament one.
You are really praying to your ow Divine Self God dosent need prayers.

Its the energy of humility that does it.
If you still find that hard just stay as much as possible in the NOW
Dont try or work at it just be.

Regards
Chris

[Isostool]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/video/video.php?v=1378237514624&comments

[peterstein]

The mind of the fool is always caught
in an opinion about becoming or avoiding something,
but the wise man's nature is to have no opinions
about becoming and avoiding.

[9eagle9]

Your ego will also tell you that you aren't being sincere....lol. Insidious isn't it? You don't have to be sincere you aren't quite sure who you are so how much in alignment can you feel about what you really want or even what the real matter is.. You don't have to DO or BE anything. You don't have to be sincere/ insincere. I've found that neither belief, or sincerity was important, but honesty was even if it was raw. IN part when you are being honest with God you are being honest with yourself. We came into this world still holding guilt about god from the last thousand zillion lifetimes. And you are having resentment understandably about god held over from youth, that's where I'd start my dialog. Thats the first place I should have started my dialog but I didn't. If I had I would had an easier time of it.

When I listen to people's public prayers I notice insincerity. They are expressing all these flowery terms to God and it sounds quite nice, but they are quite ignoring the fact that their hearts are tormented. God knows whats in their hearts so why have all these syrupy sentiments on the tongue. Words are going to hide whats on the heart?

A lot of people are indoctrinated into false gratitude which has folded over and multiplied with New Age philosophy that stresses that gratitude will make everything better: Gratitude is the end result not the catalyst. Then feeling guilty for not feeling sincere about their gratitude.

I hear this alot: I shouldn't complain or express negative feelings to God. I should just be grateful.

"Be grateful for what? Not being comfortable talking to God? why would you be grateful for that?" Most of all WHO is asking you to feel gratitude in that fashion. Gratitude just sort of occurs, but we've been conditioned to now believe we have to make the arrangements for it. We don't. God is making the arrangments. I see God as this travel agent who is steadily arranging our traveling plans, our tickets, our fare, and we are busily walking along behind unplugging the fax, missing flights, losing our tickets..lol. But God just keeps rebooking the flights..... When someone is working that steadily on your behalf you can't help but reach the destination.



"Regardless of whether you want to tame subdue or transcend the ego you will not do it by your own efforts alone.
you need the humility to ask the Divine for help." by Greybeard

I have a great deal of trouble with that. I feel I am not sincere when I ask. I think I still hold guilt from leaving my childhood religion at age 14. Also I still hold resentment for not being helped by the Divine in my times of need. Real or imagined, that is my plight.

(find it hard to use the reply with quote when I only want one or two lines from a quote.)

Peace

[greybeard]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/video/video.php?v=1378237514624&comments


You have to be a face book member to see this Isotool/
Im not.
Regards
Chris

[peterstein]

ONLY THE ONE WITH PERFECT EYES CAN SEE PERFECTION.

and what are perfect eyes?

EYES THAT SEE WITHOUT DESIRE OR INTERPRETATION

p.s

[greybeard]

I have read through the entire thread about the ego and read a few posts saying the ego is part of you and needs to be tamed.
I agree with that and like anything to get good at something take practice
and patience , i do not know much about it but that feels right to me.
for a while now i have been trying to meditate with no success, i could never quiet my mind chatter but have just kept on regardless
and last night i tried again and for the first time i managed to just concentrate on my breathing , all the noise went quiet, it was if i was observing it
then i felt pure peace and warmth and with my eyes closed everything became bright .
it never lasted for long but felt amazing , i have had a big smile on my face all day today.
that is the first time that has happened , and I want to thank all of you for the wonderful info and ideas you have shared .
I think that has helped me more than i know.
I still have lots to learn and understand about the ego but just thought i would share that
have a great day everyone

Thanks for sharing

several have had similar experiences since visiting this thread I wonder why?

Takes time for the mind to go quiet and even if it dosnt thats ok Just dont talk to it just be aware without expectation.

Very Happy.

Chris


First I'd like to say hello and that I'm so glad to finally be here. Although I'm new to Avalon, Avalon is not new to me. Like most newbies, I have been following this amazing forum for a number of years and I'm a huge fan of both Bill & Kerry.

And like most of us newbies I came out of the shadows because of the Charles Materials. But that's not the only reason.

What I'm really interested in is meditation, both for its benefit to general well-being and for spiritual development. I have been trying various types, off and on for about the last 10 years without success. I was going to ask for help or guidance but having read sleepydumping's post I think I'll follow that example and read through this thread first. I'll let you know how I get on. Please feel free to offer any pointers you might think appropriate. It would be most appreciated.

Blessings to All

Smoke Me A Kipper

Hi

What works for me.

My meditation does not give me direct results no flashing lights though sometimes there is a very peaceful feeling and the love can descend but that tends to happen when Im not meditating it just arrives.

First there is no expectation.
I tend to do mantra first quietly in my head Om Nama Shivia, I use the 108 prayer beads but no set number.
No pattern nothing premeditated, just spontaneous/

With eyes closed and back straight I just watch and listen for God,
He does not speak to me but I can feel the body energy change.
I concentrate on what is happening with the body.
Sometimes it helps to be aware of the breathing to follow it in and out of the body
I can rotate chakras and all that stuff but dont now. Thats a distraction.
When you get into doing all kinds of technique you are to my mind starting to assume an identity
I am a great mediator, im an expert etc.
No the whatever it is meditates you.

Seperate from that.
In The Power of Now Eckhart Tolle recomended this
Sit in the park watch ducks on the pond without labeling, with out comment.
At first the mind wants to define the kind of duck the temperature of the day compare with other days other ducks.
Dont do that, just watch, You will be amazed how much enjoyment you get from just being there 100%

This was the finest advice I ever got for stilling the mind very soon I became aware of how much I labeled, judged, compared.
When you shine the light of awareness on the ego it starts to dissolve or at least the hold it has over you decreases
Make a game of it dont take it too seriously.
You will be surprised how quickly your mind starts to become quiet even the sound volume decreases, the ego becomes a quiet sound in the back ground no longer does it shout at you.

Regards chris

[greybeard]

Pasted from the Eckhart Tolle March News letter. 2009


What is our Relationship with our Personality after Awakening?

We sat down for a chat with Eckhart one afternoon and asked him some questions. In this issue, Eckhart reveals his thoughts on our relationship with between our ego and personality.

Question: What is our relationship with our personality after awakening & does it change?

Eckhart Tolle: Strictly speaking, before awakening, to a large extent, you don’t have a relationship with your personality; you are your personality. If you can have a relationship with your personality – which is the ego, with its way of reacting and thinking, and emotions – who is having a relationship with the personality? What that means is you are witnessing it. There is a witnessing consciousness there, and if there is a witnessing consciousness, then you can have a relationship with your personality. What that really means is, you can be there as a witnessing presence when your ego is doing something silly. And you can laugh at yourself, maybe in the moment, maybe afterwards.

If you are totally in the grip of your personality, or your ego, then of course there is no relationship because you have become it. You’re so one with all your reactive patterns and all your conditioned thinking, that you don’t even know that there’s anything else in you. You are it.

As you awaken spiritually, the awareness that is nothing to do with your personality increases, and the power of the personality, with its conditioned patterns, decreases. Gradually, the personality is no longer opaque; it is transparent to the light of awareness, or consciousness. It loses its solidity. This is why you find that in people who are awake, or people who are awakening, there is more of a lightness to them. If there’s only personality, then there’s heaviness, a psychic heaviness in you. Everything is dreadfully serious, and [you are] defensive, always wanting something, or defending yourself against something.

When you’re relating to somebody in whom there is no awareness, then you always get a slightly uncomfortable feeling, because that person is completely ill-at-ease. Ultimately, all personalities are ill-at-ease. They may pretend that they are very confident, but underneath the role of ‘confidence’, there’s always a person who feels ill-at-ease. They need to prove something, or they want something from you. That’s the personality. As you awaken, that part become a little less opaque and it becomes lighter. There’s more of an awareness that shines through the person.

Ego is complete identification with your thinking and your emotions. When you are unconscious, personality and ego are one thing. As you awaken, you become more aware of your patterns, which may to some extent still operate. I’m choosing to define personality as something that you can be aware of. It was the ego before, but you can be aware of it as patterns that still operate within you. If there is no awareness, and you are it, then it’s totally ego. As you become aware of your ego, the ego becomes the personality, and then you can have a relationship with your personality in the sense that you can be the witness.

If you have a difficult relationship with your personality, that’s a delusion. Then your personality has split itself into two, one part is having a relationship with another, and one part says “You should be better, why can’t you be more conscious?” That means there is no witnessing presence there. One part of the personality is arguing with another. The witnessing consciousness doesn’t judge. You don’t judge yourself in any way, you just see behavior. There’s no good or bad, it just is. The need to be right, for example, is a very common thing with the ego. If it’s a deep-seated need, then you can’t be wrong in an argument. There’s a compulsion to defend yourself. Then suddenly you can see it in yourself. Ultimately, having a relationship with your personality implies that there is a witnessing presence.

[greybeard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xwTkmEUqZM&feature=player_embedded

¤=[Post Update]=¤


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiRIndmiKyU&feature=player_embedded

[FutureLeFunk]

Hello!

I'm also slowly going though this thread (old Avalon thread too). My thanks for all that has gone into them :)

I enjoyed the post that we live three lives in one lifetime.

From an early age I questioned my own existence, the awesome energy released felt impossible to channel at the time. But it feels natural that my journey now is inwards to channel that energy.

Is the purpose of ego to help develop a natural resonance with the energy within?

I've developed my own technique which manifests a positive state of energy, which I use in combination with a circular breathing motion. I use this up to a point where my breathe is not deep, nor shallow but perfectly balanced. It feels strange, but a positive energy is released through my eyes, the negative energy created by ego has gone. I'm free to open them again.

Do you have any techniques for dealing with ego forced directly upon you by others?. I found that thinking of a question rather than an answer helps, but I'm still trying to use a picture and association to reinforce this.

My thanks again!

[greybeard]

Hello!

I'm also slowly going though this thread (old Avalon thread too). My thanks for all that has gone into them :)

I enjoyed the post that we live three lives in one lifetime.

From an early age I questioned my own existence, the awesome energy released felt impossible to channel at the time. But it feels natural that my journey now is inwards to channel that energy.

Is the purpose of ego to help develop a natural resonance with the energy within?

I've developed my own technique which manifests a positive state of energy, which I use in combination with a circular breathing motion. I use this up to a point where my breathe is not deep, nor shallow but perfectly balanced. It feels strange, but a positive energy is released through my eyes, the negative energy created by ego has gone. I'm free to open them again.

Do you have any techniques for dealing with ego forced directly upon you by others?. I found that thinking of a question rather than an answer helps, but I'm still trying to use a picture and association to reinforce this.

My thanks again!

Hi
Funnily enough I just posted these two videos from there.

Referring again to Eckhart Tolle "The Power of Now"
Its all pain body stuff, You have a choice, to not react, or buy into anything.
Takes practice.
As long as you are aware of what is happening all is well.

My big things was not being appreciated for things I did
The voice in my head would say things like "After all I have done for them and yet they are giving me a hard time" ---- or similar.

Basically I had expectation of others to met my needs, also I was a people pleaser.
I was almost buying favors, or so I thought, by being kind.
I was actually being controlling and manipulative, All totally out with my awareness.
Thoughts like I deserve better and victim consciousness.
The ego is a clever little devil.
I let mine out to play now and again Lol
Regards Chris

PS RedeZra posted some great poetry on the ego thread there.

[FutureLeFunk]

Thanks Chris! :)

I have alot of reading to do! lol

Aha! that makes sense. For my ego I expect nothing and project, so just the opposite for receiving.

:grouphug:

Paul

[golden wonder]

Interesting points have been raised in this thread.

This is my first post to project Avalon, and having read through this thread my ego is and isn't cautious to write some words on this.
I may be setting myself up for criticism. I may even get hurt or be disappointed.
Understanding that criticism could also be very productive and constructive in expanding my knowledge of the world around me.
The feedback could also be positive and I will be happy about that and know that I have contributed something helpful to others.
I have to find balance of my thoughts and fears, weigh up the pros and cons, so to speak, before I can be confident in the decision I am about to take.
I have to be aware of myself before I take any opinion on the awareness of others.
I am grateful for my ego in enabling me to write this.

I have found through life experience that it is in learning to from other people around us, no matter what their history, or aspirations to be helpful in understanding my own emotions, which drives my fears and reason for making every day decisions.
Sometimes people make the wrong ones and sometimes the right ones and we can all learn and grow from this experience. It is our ego that enables us to interact with others around us.

This thread like many others enables us to express our opinion. One that we are writing because we think it needs consideration because we believe what we are saying to be true and helpful.

The word enlightenment seems to be as big alone as discussing the ego.
Is an enlightened person always right? Can someone we perceive as bad, not become good or vice versa? Is it not judgement that makes us decide what is good or bad, right or wrong?
Everyone has an opinion.

Therefore in answer to this question I would say, that the ego is part of your emotional dialogue with the self, and the transcendence is in allowing it to change or transform.
By applying an open mind, and accepting that we are never right or wrong you become less judgemental, and more enlightened.

I have given this considerable thought.

This is my recommended read for today. Hope you like it....

http://www.highvibrations.org/archive1/pathways.htm

[TheCaduceus]

Yes, the ego definitely needs transcending.... we can't hope to gain eternal peace & true perception when it is still present...

Another way of expressing ego is "Everybody's Got one"!

When the ego/contracted, small self merges with the Universal/Absolute Self - a human's true life purpose is attained.... only from this perspective can ultimate reality be clearly perceived..... This is a great but invisible moment in history....
Namaste
The Caduceus

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi All,

I am a schizophrenic with muliple personalities...

And there is no one else here!

:wacko:

Peace

[greybeard]

Given me by our friend Mudra

The timeless, formless, primordial Ground of all Being is the deepest dimension of each and every one of us—this is what we discover when we let go of thought, feeling, mind, time, and world. The nature of the Self, as timeless, formless Being, is experienced as radical, unconditional freedom. Freedom from being trapped in time and form—freedom from the mind and personality, freedom from everything that is relative, freedom from the whole world. That's why that deepest dimension of our own self is always so exquisite and delightful. Experiment with this radical release in the infinite depths of your own interior. Give yourself the freedom to experience the unconditional freedom of Being. Allow yourself to let go so deeply that you begin to feel as if everything that happens within the realm of manifestation is incomparably mundane, even painful, in contrast to the profound lightness of being, which is the deepest nature of your own unmanifest self.

~ Andrew Cohen

[Muzz]

Thankyou greybeard I always enjoy your posts.

[ASIA]

Bonjour,

This short audio of Alain Watts, feels to me, deeply relevant to the Charles / Bill threads on Avalon, as well as enlightenment.
Very practical, clairvoyant & smile provoking insights .... for those who have patience to listen to the end ( 9 min. ) ♥

" THE INFERIOR INTELLIGENCE WILL ALWAYS ACCUSE THE SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE OF CHEATING, that's the way of saving face.

How to escape from heredity without challenging it ? By intelligence, not efford. Be able to have intentions & acts simultaneous. By these means you escape the heredity & devil, without making any previous announcements. "


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkjMlOkq-zY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
links : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkjMlOkq-zY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL, http://www.alanwatts.com/

[Gardener]

Another perspective perhaps:

This Quote is from pp16-17 Robert Johnson Owning your own shadow (1993)
“Most people presume they are the master of their house. To acknowledge and then 'own' one’s shadow is to admit there are many more sides to us that the world generally does not see. Dr Jung tells how he first intuited the presence of “another” in his psyche.

(From Memories Dreams and Reflections, Jung. C G.)

“I had a dream which both frightened and encouraged me. It was night in some unknown place, and I was making slow and painful headway against a mighty wind.Dense fog was flying along everywhere. I had my hands cupped around a tiny light which threatened to go out at any moment. Everything depended on my keeping this little light alive. Suddenly I had the feeling that something was coming up behind me. I loooked back and saw a gigantic black figure following me. But at the same moment I was conscious in spite of my terror, that I must keep my little light going through night and wind., regardless of all dangers. When I awoke I realized at once that the figure was my own shadow on the swirling mists, brought into being by the little light I was carrying. I knew too that this little light was my consciousness, the only light I have. Though infinitly small and fragile in comparison with the powers of darkness, it is still a light, my only light.”

Johnson goes on to say [..."This is one of Jung's greatest insights: that the ego and the shadow come from the same source and exactly balance each other. To make light is to make shadow; one cannot exist without the other."

[greybeard]

I no longer recognise this forum as my home.

Peace, respect, and a measure of tranquility have gone.

Many good hearted new people here but there are so many addicted to question time.

So many looking for answers where they can not be found.

So many in spiritual ignorance.

The truth can only be found within.

In answer to a recent question.

A truly enlightened one knows only Truth.

They may express it slightly differently but it is the same Truth told by countless Mystics since time began.


On a video I heard Dr David Hawkins a mystic of our time say


" I have been accused of plagiarism, of course that true
its the same Truth that is in the Vedas,
the Truth of Krishna,
the Truth of The Buddha,
The Truth of Mohamed,
the Truth of Christ"




The teacher and the taught are the same.

There is only one soul one consciousness.

That sums it up.

The rest is illusion.

I will continue to post here.

I hope many others will too.

Chris

[greybeard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcL9gqFSXWw&feature=player_embedded

[golden wonder]

If only all the people knew how to do this. Beautiful words and thank you all your posts on this thread Chris.
I am still learning how to use this forum...It's very busy.

[greybeard]

If only all the people knew how to do this. Beautiful words and thank you all your posts on this thread Chris.
I am still learning how to use this forum...It's very busy.

Hi if everyone "got it" the play would come to an end.
Having said that we might be moving into a new chapter or even a new book.
Let us hope so.
I have never felt I belonged in this world.

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

Me ego told me to include this link ;) http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?13572-RULERS-Questions-for-Charles-volume-2&p=130037&viewfull=1#post130037


¤=[Post Update]=¤



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcL9gqFSXWw&feature=player_embedded

Great video find, Chris! Totally resonated with what was said.

[9eagle9]

Truthseeker, , in pointing out the obvious about the Human us and the Reptilian them....not sure if that's ego or not. Spirit seems to notice the obvious right away while ego likes to wall paper it over :) "Don't look at that".

The' us versus them' is just another reflection of this ages old game we've all be involved in since our division. All the history books ancient and more contemporary are just expressions of Us vs Them. Its been conducted on all dimensions. I've seen the 'the reptilians' expressed in my life on my part and on others, the intricate base domineering greed driven games. We only separate by effect. THEY are ruling the WHOLE world, and the embezzling car salesman who expresses reptile mind by chewing you over in a car sales isn't ruling the world. He's just ruling your pocketbook. Which may be what one has built their world around, their wallet ...so.But its the same expression. A behavior.

There's a spiritual whole entity lurking behind a whole dictionary worth of behaviors . Who is determining the good or bad those behaviors are? Our ego minds.

There's a spiritual person and then there's their behaviors. I don't have to allow their behaviors to harm me to maintain a moral "I love everyone' attitude. But I can't confuse their behaviors with who they are in entirety. There's a great deal to be said for loving someone from a 'safe' distance. Out of reach of their left hook, as it were. Love in the purest form, not the love we associate with family , partners and friends.

We are not compelled to turn a blind eye to the treachery of the physical world. I'd never tell anyone 'Well you've done ACIM, you can walk out in front of a bus now." But we don't have a give it any more credence to those dangers than anything else. They are part of the illusion and they are playing a role in the illusion. But its still just an illusion. HOw much we are allow ourselves to be affected by us keeps us in or out of the game. I find the whole reptilian domination thing fascinating but allows return to, 'if it wasn't for our egos, our fear, how much of this would have seemingly occured."

When we start giving credibility to illusions it 'becomes' real to us. It expresses itself in the material world. It starts manifesting in the physical world due to our belief systems. We are agreeing to believe it so the mind helpfully projects it. For a week I've agreed to believe that every time I parked my truck the battery cable would do whatever game it was involved in and I'd have to lift the hood and jiggle it to start my truck I spent all day running errands, and performed this elaborate ritual of lifting hood, jiggling cable, starting truck in at least six parking lots...lol. . Finally I realized on my last stop of the day that in order to do this I'd have to wade hip deep into a snow bank. I wasn't willing to go there. So I got in my truck and said, "Look. You're just going to have to start, I'm sick of this game. "

And it did. And it did again this morning. This is the only thing a miracle is, stop investing in a belief and the real reality will express itself.

. If we can do this on such a small daily level, think what we could do if we put our selves together and did on a larger level.

[FutureLeFunk]

If only everyone would take a small leap of faith.

tMqC7aKeykw

Only with a quiet mind can we can chose what we receive.

Look and ye shall find! :love:

The only question should be what does the mind and heart look for?.

:grouphug:

[shadowbox]

When you let go of ego, nothing is defined. There is no evil, just what is. It's just happening and it's wonderful. Everything is in balance.

It's a feeling we all know. The onset is deeply recognizable, so natural.

The moment you speak of ego, you have completely redefined it with finite boundaries.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi everyone,

Thought this might be appropriate here:

Frontiers of Truth

There’s some things better left unknown
For their knowing is a one-way door
Once you venture through
There’s no turning back
And living as before.

So when the wily truth beckons
With great secrets for only your ears
Heed this warning well
Stay your churning thoughts
From blazing new frontiers.

The truth’s a master of disguise
It is layered and runs really deep
Each new layer brings
Ways of knowing things
That require faith to leap.

And when the moment’s grail appears
A past gnostic must fade from view
So each instant’s gist
Feeds the mounting need
To sever old from new.

One day you’ll be shocked to recall
The old you no longer holds sway
That your evolved self
Has no distinct niche
As you live from day to day.

[greybeard]

Thanks Ernie

You look much more relaxed without the shades.

Love your posts.

Chris

[Ernie Nemeth]

Dear Greybeard,

I was thinking of you when I posted that poem.


I have never felt I belonged in this world.



We do not.


I no longer recognise this forum as my home.


I feel your pain and I sympathize. But have faith, you are serving a very important cause.

I want to thank you personally for welcoming me to the forum and taking me under your wing. Without your guidance, wisdom, and healing/loving energy I do not think I would have stayed. A few days ago I asked you if my negativity after reading the posts on the Charles threads was being directed by Charles himself (I called it an attack). You suggested I stay away - and I have. But I noticed your name in those threads as well. I suggest you stay away too, kindheart. There is far too much negativity there for the likes of us, me thinks.

There are a lot of people looking for answers on the Charles threads. They want to stick it to the PTB because of past slights against their persons, I don't blame them. However, revenge and violence are not the answer, never have been and never will be. Let us send them loving energy and reminders of Who They Are. That is our job. After I post this that is exactly what I intend to do. And I will do that every morning from this day forward! We must have faith in our fellow forum members - they are among the most advanced souls on the planet. I'm sure they will not forget their Source. Let them play their part as they see fit, they will not fail, they cannot - so long as we have their backs. Let us send them loving/healing/anchoring energy for the distasteful work that they do, for us and mankind. May The One, The Is, bless them, and us all.

Hope that helps, Chris.
In sincerity,
Ernie

[PathWalker]

All ego war is about me and them. You and I.
The ego is a construct of individuality built for us (our souls) to learn duality.
We need the ego and its challenges in order to evolve.

So better integrate the ego then fight. When you fight you lose. The ego is stronger it has all your powers and knowledge.
Identify, befriend, observe and evolve. With your ego.

[PathWalker]

Yes, the ego definitely needs transcending.... we can't hope to gain eternal peace & true perception when it is still present...

Another way of expressing ego is "Everybody's Got one"!

When the ego/contracted, small self merges with the Universal/Absolute Self - a human's true life purpose is attained.... only from this perspective can ultimate reality be clearly perceived..... This is a great but invisible moment in history....
Namaste
The Caduceus

I agree, and would replace transcending with integrating. Since the ego is part of yourself/myself. And we want to evolve as one.
More then that, in order to evolve we/I need to observe, identify and modify our/my behavior with the ego. Otherwise we cannot evolve.

[greybeard]

Yes, the ego definitely needs transcending.... we can't hope to gain eternal peace & true perception when it is still present...

Another way of expressing ego is "Everybody's Got one"!

When the ego/contracted, small self merges with the Universal/Absolute Self - a human's true life purpose is attained.... only from this perspective can ultimate reality be clearly perceived..... This is a great but invisible moment in history....
Namaste
The Caduceus

I agree, and would replace transcending with integrating. Since the ego is part of yourself/myself. And we want to evolve as one.
More then that, in order to evolve we/I need to observe, identify and modify our/my behavior with the ego. Otherwise we cannot evolve.

I really see your point of view it worked up till now but we are moving on to an other stage of evolution we done need the conflict to grow now.
Surely enough of us have got the message.

Bit like the stages of a rocket.
First stage filled with explosive inflammable fuel, thats was necessary to get out of the heavy gravitational pull of earth.
It takes off with great noise, fuss and uncertainty.
That stage discards when the first goal is reached, there may be another powered section, then that is discarded as there is now enough momentum to get us to where we want to be, this stage is a silent stage.
We make our way through space having left the Hubble bubble of earth noise, we are in the heavens.

Nice to see you back. Path Walker
Chris

[PathWalker]

I really see your point of view it worked up till now but we are moving on to an other stage of evolution we done need the conflict to grow now.
Surely enough of us have got the message.

Bit like the stages of a rocket.
First stage filled with explosive inflammable fuel, thats was necessary to get out of the heavy gravitational pull of earth.
It takes off with great noise, fuss and uncertainty.
That stage discards when the first goal is reached, there may be another powered section, then that is discarded as there is now enough momentum to get us to where we want to be, this stage is a silent stage.
We make our way through space having left the Hubble bubble of earth noise, we are in the heavens.

Nice to see you back. Path Walker
Chris

Thanks for the reply. I like the rocket metaphor and will take it further.
In my perception of evolution. We do not discard the elements of the rocket, we integrate them as part of the whole and use it when applicable (if at all).

As for my personal path, I am still very physical and in duality and as such have my ego fully operational. In the physical dimension I am still here and since I communicate on the physical dimension, I only relate to you in this level. If I could communicate in different dimension then obviously we have evolved (both: transmitter and receiver).

Thanks for the welcome note, I find this thread a place where I can contribute and evolve.

[greybeard]

Please continue to contribute.
This is your thread too.
Path Walker.

We are agreed on the process the evolution of personal consciousness, and the need for it, nothing else is of great importance.

Some times people are a little reluctant to give a point of view, every point of view is welcome here.

Together we learn, together we grow.

Chris

[greybeard]

19000 Wow
thats the number of visits to the Enlightenment thread,
Thank all who contribute by visiting.
May your days be happy.
Chris

[greybeard]

Spirituality and science cross check


I love when these two come together.

There is a lot of information here regarding possible shift of consciousness brought about by energy coming from the sun possibly any time from October this year.

Who knows what the future holds but there are certain indicators that we are in for a massive change, the audio here is well worth the listen to.

It is in ten parts but it is not too long

Thanks to Dan for sharing this.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNgUdg2NAmc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[3optic]

Hey Greybeard. maybe you've touched on this but I found a clip discussing the benefits of ego which I think is an important aspect of this discussion. Btw I don't agree with Tsarion's view if Eastern mysticism but still he makes a good point and I think it's congruent with the teachings of some Eastern sages.

Cheers!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AoHblQe2w&feature=related

[Muzz]

Hi Chris

I saw your post on the Rulers thread and hit a chord with me.

" Know that the moment you take up a position you are identifying with an illusion."

The more I open my mind ,try to meditate, relax, deal with my ego, become balanced and try and learn about myself and the world I live in, I thought I would crystalise a kind of solid stance on who/what/why/where I was with me and my world. What Im a discovering is that I have no strong attachment to any point of view and just feel at ease with the changing world around me. I am concerned sometimes that I am being heartless, especially with all the stuff thats happening.

Does this make sense to anyone or am I not geeting it.

Chees
Muzz

[greybeard]

Hi Chris

I saw your post on the Rulers thread and hit a chord with me.

" Know that the moment you take up a position you are identifying with an illusion."

The more I open my mind ,try to meditate, relax, deal with my ego, become balanced and try and learn about myself and the world I live in, I thought I would crystalise a kind of solid stance on who/what/why/where I was with me and my world. What Im a discovering is that I have no strong attachment to any point of view and just feel at ease with the changing world around me. I am concerned sometimes that I am being heartless, especially with all the stuff thats happening.

Does this make sense to anyone or am I not geeting it.

Chees
Muzz

Hi Muzz posted this elsewhere but it fits, your question good.
It also bothered me when I started to feel as you have shared

So this is one way of looking at it.

Problem is that as personal consciousness rises you get into love all, unfortunately there is no ability to discriminate to see the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Then the third eye starts to open and you see things differently there is discernment.
You can have unconditional love realizing if they knew better they would do better, but you dont spend time trying to rescue them, influence them.
They have their own karma to work through. Its not up to you to save the world.
That might seem uncaring but no its not.
It is not good to push help on people who have not asked for it.
Put information on the table share but if they dont pick up move on.
So many here are vulnerable, their love makes them open to be mislead.
Be kind to all life including your own.
But beware of the vanity that leads you to think you can save the world.
Its not your job.

Chris

[Muzz]

Thnks for that Chris, that is very helpful.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi,
I am feeling slightly depressed and more than slightly apprehensive about my present predicament. So I want to remind myself, in public, of what I believe.

A large portion of my identity has been tied to my car in the past. I could not imagine what would happen to me without one. I did not go for a certain type of car, just something reliable to get me and my tools from A to B. When the insurance game stepped up their greed quotient here in Canada, I had a tuff time keeping up, until at last I could not. I drove for a further three years without insurance, until I was caught. And a few months later I was caught again. That was it, I no longer drove. Without a word of a lie I spent several days staring blankly at the walls of my room, wondering what would happen to me now. I really thought I was going to die, that's how much I identified with my car. Then I went into a rage that lasted two weeks. It was a very bleak time for me.

Then I realized that this was a gift, not a curse. I had purposely caused this situation to further my growth, of course my ego had other ideas. My higher self had called upon the universe for healing, for correction, and it had been answered. It didn't have to be that way but I was too ego-centered to heed the signs. This was just a drastic wake up call. I accepted the situation, pulled up my socks, put my tools in a backpack and walked miles to work - at the time I lived just north of Toronto, with no bus routes. Very quickly I put on extra muscle in my legs and back and my lungs becan little powerful bellows - my stamina increased significantly. I realized, the way I had been going, I would have probably soon become seriuosly ill.

So I thanked the universe and my higher self for having saved me a journey into health issues I may not have survived. Today I shoulder a 50lb. pack like its a feather!

I have had many such drastic wake-up calls in recent years, despite my ego's continued resistance.

And now here I am, on the verge of yet another nasty lesson. All the work has dried up, I have no money, the rent isn't paid, there's no food in the fridge. But this time I refuse to panic. For almost six weeks my phone has not rung, not even to change a lightbulb. Instead of panicing, I joined this group, quit two of my three major vices and began doing energy work in earnest. Soon I will quit smoking cigarettes as well. I'm already reducing my intake.

So, I just want to thank myself for this oportunity to - hug my woman! She just walked in - see, synchronicities occur when we open ourselves to their presence!

I feel better already.

Peace and love to everyone

[Ernie Nemeth]

Okay,
This is the miracle! I just posted not two minutes ago, and guess what? - my phone rang with work AND he is going to come and pick me up.
So don't tell me this doesn't work because I know it does!
Gotta go to work!
Peace

[9eagle9]

Ernie just got affirmed!

The vehicle identification is a goody isn't it. I used to do that too. Sorta weird because women attach to appearances, clothing, etc. I realized that my trucks were my only source of dependability. People failed me, broke down on me, etc etc. But my trucks never did. But knowing that I was able to not be so hard on myself about it until I realized that for a person raised without dependability or even a self identity that would sorta just occur on its own. For me it was a sort of surrogate parent..lol. What made the trucks dependable....I did. So i tried to make myself as dependable for myself. What you did Ernie. Its what the vehicle represents, that we attached meaning to it a symbol of what we lacked or desired. The vehicle as a physical object is rather meaningless.

When you go into the extreme places where the vehicle represents you. "I must have a corvette to make me feel (fill in the blank)' thats when the vehicle itself because a PITA. Every break down and scratch becomes a judgement and punishment against you.

I rather like having vehicles that come pre dented and scratched and worn since I don't have the chance of putting a judgement on me when something happens to it.

[greybeard]

Spirituality and science cross check


I love when these two come together.

There is a lot of information here regarding possible shift of consciousness brought about by energy coming from the sun possibly any time from October this year.

Who knows what the future holds but there are certain indicators that we are in for a massive change, the audio here is well worth the listen to.

It is in ten parts but it is not too long

Thanks to Dan for sharing this.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNgUdg2NAmc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL




A reason to be kind to all life including your own

The reason is in the video though you should not need one.

If this scientist is to be believed then we are coming very soon a time when there will be a separation between lower energy and higher energy consciousness

I personally dont like the idea of better than ie good being better than bad but being realistic I dont drink poison, so I have a choice and I chose what is life supporting.

Life supporting for me and others, unfortunately a lot of people have a high disregard for life of others,

There is free will, in every moment we are at a crossroads where we can choose a journey upwards, a raising of personal consciousness or otherwise.

Now if you chose lower path according to the video you will end up in the lower astral where your war like nature will have to work out that karma.

If your spiritual vibration is high enough, in a twinkling of an eye you will find your self on a new earth without the negativity and violence we experience here.

So its make up your mind time.

Do you want to feed on friction, negativity, arguing, bickering or do you want to let that go with the possibility of experiencing a new way of being?

Even if nothing happens in the next few years it still makes sense to let go of anything which is not life supporting.

Its seems that people are looking in all the wrong palces for a way out of the negativity of this world.

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom is to be found within.

You dont have to be good at meditation, you just ask The Creator for help on your unique spiritual journey.

I am not of any religion but Jesus certainly spoke of many wondrous things happening in the future, including a New Earth.

Dan and Beren and Redezra know the Bible I dont may be they would like to quote Jesus on New Earth.

Help guys!!!

Anyone else welcome to contribute obviously.

The video/audio is confirming much of what David Wilcox is saying regarding change of DNA change of our body, new species we may become.

Nassim Harmein also talks about getting of this Rock as in a twinkling of an eye energy from the sun could give us the same atmosphere as Mars

Here is hoping we can all make a pain free transition to a new way of being, here or else where.

Chris

Namaste

[greybeard]

Mayan 9th Wave



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THKDYdqfqKU&feature=player_embedded

[PathWalker]

Beloved Graybeard,

Please look into the heartmath site. http://www.heartmath.org/
There you find how science meets spirituality. At least on the lifestyle side.
There is hard core science (physics) proving mind control over matter. With theory and applied technology (like remote viewing). All this science is still secret (used to control people and states).

I believe (not hope) once the hall of records will be revealed, the science of ascension will be disclosed.
BTW David Wilkock has already revealed great deal from this science and more to be revealed in the coming book he is about to publish.
The technology (without science) is also delivered by Burt Goldman.

[kenkyushiryo]

Mayan 9th Wave~


thanks for sharing that, very relavant to me right now.

[PathWalker]

One more message abut the role of ego.
The ego is the construct that provide uniqueness and sense of separation from the omniscient one.

We need the virtual perception of separation in order to exercise free will. If we thought we are in the one we would follow the altruistic and conformant way of living.

So in order to live in duality and have free will the ego is required. More then that, we need the ego in order to evolve in this sand box.
This might explain why in my philosophy the work on the ego is integration rather then fighting.

[greybeard]

One more message abut the role of ego.
The ego is the construct that provide uniqueness and sense of separation from the omniscient one.

We need the virtual perception of separation in order to exercise free will. If we thought we are in the one we would follow the altruistic anc conformant way of living.

So in order to live in duality and have free will the ego is required. More then that, we need the ego in order to evolve in this sand box.

This might explain why in my philosophy the work on the ego is integration rather then fighting.

Yes pathwalker you are correct in what you say while we are in duality and taming the ego a very worth while process.

A story

A man was given a gift of the perfect servant the only draw back was that he the master did no keep the servant busy it would kill him.

So at fist the master managed to keep the servant busy but he kept running out of things for him to do.
It was exhausting the master, then hit upon the idea,
He got the servant brick by brick to build a wall, when the wall was complete he go the servant to dismantle it brick by brick.

SO THATS OUR EGO. If we dont keep it busy in acquisition and separation mode it will make us very uneasy,

A test
Can you sit quiet with nothing going on? No TV, no music, doing, absolutely nothing.
Not talking about meditation just sit.
See how long you last without getting up to make tea or coffee or just doing.

Who runs what!!! You or your ego? Who is the master here? it certainly keeps you busy but to what end,

So the ego hears of enlightenment, sounds a great idea, it becomes the spiritual ego, the seeker, it wil take you to work shops, seminars, books, cds, dvds, you name it.
The spiritual merry go round till eventually you realize you are looking in all the wrong places.

The longest journey is from head to heart.


So eventually it dawns that you cant keep what you want, let go of what you dont want or need.

No belief systems, no rituals, nothing, just being as you truly are.
Now, you do have to go through all the other to get to the part where you get to the point of realizing its not a question of knowing more,
its just letting go of all that hides the truth of what you already are.

When the clouds of ignorance are removed the illumine self shines through.
The ego has been transcended and returned to God who gave it to you as a tool to take you so far on your unique journey to spiritual enlightenment.

The donkey that take you to the door is not that by which you enter. (The Kingdom of Heaven)

Where did all that come from???

When I sit to read most times I have no idea if I will write something or not. Idont know what word will come next till it does.
Think thats true of every one.

Good night
Chris

[PathWalker]

A story

A man was given a gift of the perfect servant the only draw back was that he the master did no keep the servant busy it would kill him.

So at fist the master managed to keep the servant busy but he kept running out of things for him to do.
It was exhausting the master, then hit upon the idea,
He got the servant brick by brick to build a wall, when the wall was complete he go the servant to dismantle it brick by brick.

SO THATS OUR EGO. If we dont keep it busy in acquisition and separation mode it will make us very uneasy,

Thank you Graybeard that is a master piece of poetry.
I really like the ego parable.
Since I live in the middle east,it is very easy to work out the servant with useless chores (dig & fill, build & destroy).




So the ego hears of enlightenment, sounds a great idea, it becomes the spiritual ego, the seeker, it wil take you to work shops, seminars, books, cds, dvds, you name it.
The spiritual merry go round till eventually you realize you are looking in all the wrong places.

The longest journey is from head to heart.


I enjoyed the description of a spiritual ego, since I recognize mine and my addiction to information.

Never the less it is part of me and I am trying to make service from it in this thread :nerd:

[truthseekerdan]

[I am not of any religion but Jesus certainly spoke of many wondrous things happening in the future, including a New Earth.

Dan and Beren and Redezra know the Bible I dont may be they would like to quote Jesus on New Earth.

Help guys!!!

Chris

Namaste

Hi Chris and dear friends,

Here is a link to a passage of Scripture where these coming things are foretold: 2 Peter 3:5-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Peter%203:5-13&version=NIV)

Sorry for my slow reply, I was away...

Love ~ Dan

[golden wonder]

I just tried to make a post. It timed out. I was too concerned with getting my words right, now I (my ego) don't care how this reads...

I am confused because I read back to front. Everything has an opposite.
No matter what a person s background, all are enlightened.
Some people don't understand how to deal with their wrestling ego, if they have time to think about it all.
I think I have too much time on my hands when I do.
When a person shows compassion it is without question.
Not everyone can empty their minds and meditate, or let go of their belief system in order to do so.
Not everyone has a duality with themselves.
We are all enlightened, no matter what walk of life.

Please forgive my ignorance if I am misunderstanding this discussion now.

[greybeard]

I just tried to make a post. It timed out. I was too concerned with getting my words right, now I (my ego) don't care how this reads...

I am confused because I read back to front. Everything has an opposite.
No matter what a person s background, all are enlightened.
Some people don't understand how to deal with their wrestling ego, if they have time to think about it all.
I think I have too much time on my hands when I do.
When a person shows compassion it is without question.
Not everyone can empty their minds and meditate, or let go of their belief system in order to do so.
Not everyone has a duality with themselves.
We are all enlightened, no matter what walk of life.

Please forgive my ignorance if I am misunderstanding this discussion now.

Hi Golden Wonder
thanks for posting.
The seed of enlightenment is within everyone it has nothing to do with back ground or intelligence.
Compassion as you rightly pointed out is very important.
Everyone has duality within ie male and female.
Everyone can empty their minds believe me but it takes time, there was a post earlier about how to
.
TAKES TIME TO LET GO OF BELIEF SYSTEMS, but the biggest one is the belief I am the body.
2nd biggest is that I am making things happen all on my own unaided.

I would suggest that anyone new to this subject starts at page one and works through.

I wil let my ego out to play for a moment.

If this was a Charles thread you would make the time,

Honestly this thread with its diverse points of view and contributors could help you make a big shift in consciousness
the tools are here.

You raise your consciousness you are changing the world.

With love
Chris

[Belle]

Found this thread late tonight and don't have the time at this moment to start on the 1st page. Will do that tomorrow.

While I'm here I'd like to share a couple of thoughts. I have been "dealing with" the ego since I first read the Course in Miracles. It was a wonderful start and I still refer to it often. The information/counsel I need at any given moment can usually be found within those pages.

To me, the ego screams protection, must protect my individuality at any cost. Ego says there is no oneness, and I must take any thought, word or action from another as an attack...thus the need to attack back. The ego is jealous, need to be right, needs to be "special", need to constantly make comparisons to others and loves games of "one-upmanship" and showing off how smart he/she is with big words or how generous he/she is with big actions. The ego separates us, isolates us from all. It's so noisy that it's hard to hear the whispers of wisdom, or feel the nudges of the spirit.

In recognizing what ego is, the noise of its cries of "protect" "protect!" alerts me to an area of my life than needs work. To question why that person may irk me, for example. It usually turns out to be something in myself I don't like very much. And thus I grow with each noisy warning...beware, ego alert...time to learn.

There is so much wisdom in the many wonderful people here that this may be oversimplistic, but I am a simple traveler seeking enlightenment.

Love this thread, Greybeard. Thank you.

[greybeard]

Ramana Maharshi quotes here

http://www.successconsciousness.com/ramana_maharshi_quotes.htm

One of my first teachers via several books.

Even David Icke was moved enough by these teachings to visit the home of the late Maharshi.

Frankly if you get the teachings all you need is one book of his the rest are redundant.

Eckhart Tolle. David Hawkins and most Western Enlightened teachers, quote both Ramana Maharshi and A Course in Miracles.

Wonder why?

Laughing

Happy reading

Chris

[Henners]

"The authentic self is the best part of a human being. It's the part of you that already cares, that is already passionate about evolution. When your authentic self miraculously awakens and becomes stronger than your ego, then you will truly begin to make a difference in this world. You will literally enter into a partnership with the creative principle."
~Andrew Cohen~

;)

[Belle]

Ramana Maharshi quotes here

http://www.successconsciousness.com/ramana_maharshi_quotes.htm

One of my first teachers via several books.

Even David Icke was moved enough by these teachings to visit the home of the late Maharshi.

Frankly if you get the teachings all you need is one book of his the rest are redundant.

Eckhart Tolle. David Hawkins and most Western Enlightened teachers, quote both Ramana Maharshi and A Course in Miracles.

Wonder why?

Laughing

Happy reading

Chris

Thank you for the link. Just briefly browsing the quoted sayings, this is going to be a wonderful visit with a master. There's no way to rush through, sounds like something that must be savored.

I don't know how I missed Marharshi. I've studied for many many years and have a habit of taking what feeds me at the moment and returning when the hunger returns. I believe I shall be gorging on his teachings!

[Ernie Nemeth]

Breakthroughs occur after breakdowns...then the cycle repeats.

I have just got my eviction notice. Starting to gather my survival pack. No more tent or camping gear, that's long gone. Piece of plastic will have to do. Now I see why I have been forced to shoulder a 50lb. pack for the last, what?...3yrs.?...4? I do not even know anymore. I guess this was always inevitable. I want out of this world. Always have. Will head north, into the wild. Then we'll see what happens. Got a buck knife...rope, no money for hatchet. Will bring a small saw. Compass, magnifying glass, one pot with lid, a plastic water bottle. Good clothes I have, and boots. No water tablets. Will have to boil water. I know I can survive, I have the knowledge. Just do not know if I want to, you know? My ego is loving this - the bastard! My lofty struggle is over. Now its back to basic survival. No more time to rant at the injustices of this world - or the eighteen merry men forming their next ego trip. Just me against mother nature - my love now my formidable adversary. Kill to live, gut and skin. No knowledge of plants, cant find that plant book... Do cells work in the wild? What good would it do me if it does? No cell phone then. Wind-up flashlight/radio, some anti-sceptic and gauze. Crazy glue for stubborn cuts. Duct tape! two rolls. Never know when I might have to pull a Red Green... What else, What else? Have I missed something important? Better pull out my survival notes... Heart racing now. Odd, no fear. Things far more vivid suddenly, more real. Lots of sadness though... No regrets, no finger pointing. Palms perspiring - thought that meant money's on its way - who cares. Can't eat money. Soap - have nine bars, a towel. Toilet paper - not much point to that really. Wish I had a dog,,, Bring my walking stick - carved with my initials and some runes. Luckily always kept my good back pack with waist strap! Bed roll, wool blanket is no good, acrilic is better. Plastic Zip lock bags, a whole box. Salt, some spices, the last of the tea. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Getting excited, heart pounding. Should I wait till they kick me out or just leave. What will my daughter think? My woman...oh no, my woman. She cannot come, she wouldn't make it more than five city blocks. She'll be okay, her and her daughter. Adrenaline rush.

These are my thoughts now. Not love, not peace, not the future, not free energy, not spirit, not meditation or incense, not transcendance, not my books, not music, not Avalon's flag, not Charles or Bill...certainly not World Peace - who cares about any of that!

I am the ego, the body. My only concern is survival and will all this stuff fit in my pack. And will I be able to heft it and how far can I get and how much will it weigh.

Luckily this isn't the first time I've thought of this. That makes it easier. I'm pretty much prepared. Wait till Val falls alsleep tonight from her multiple pain pills. Then I'll sneak out...

[greybeard]

Ernie my heart goes out to you because I have been there.
I will say no more it is not about me its a about what is right for you.
I will pray for your well being now.
Chris

[9eagle9]

I sent you PM message Ernie, I hope you respond to it .



Breakthroughs occur after breakdowns...then the cycle repeats.

I have just got my eviction notice. Starting to gather my survival pack. No more tent or camping gear, that's long gone. Piece of plastic will have to do. Now I see why I have been forced to shoulder a 50lb. pack for the last, what?...3yrs.?...4? I do not even know anymore. I guess this was always inevitable. I want out of this world. Always have. Will head north, into the wild. Then we'll see what happens. Got a buck knife...rope, no money for hatchet. Will bring a small saw. Compass, magnifying glass, one pot with lid, a plastic water bottle. Good clothes I have, and boots. No water tablets. Will have to boil water. I know I can survive, I have the knowledge. Just do not know if I want to, you know? My ego is loving this - the bastard! My lofty struggle is over. Now its back to basic survival. No more time to rant at the injustices of this world - or the eighteen merry men forming their next ego trip. Just me against mother nature - my love now my formidable adversary. Kill to live, gut and skin. No knowledge of plants, cant find that plant book... Do cells work in the wild? What good would it do me if it does? No cell phone then. Wind-up flashlight/radio, some anti-sceptic and gauze. Crazy glue for stubborn cuts. Duct tape! two rolls. Never know when I might have to pull a Red Green... What else, What else? Have I missed something important? Better pull out my survival notes... Heart racing now. Odd, no fear. Things far more vivid suddenly, more real. Lots of sadness though... No regrets, no finger pointing. Palms perspiring - thought that meant money's on its way - who cares. Can't eat money. Soap - have nine bars, a towel. Toilet paper - not much point to that really. Wish I had a dog,,, Bring my walking stick - carved with my initials and some runes. Luckily always kept my good back pack with waist strap! Bed roll, wool blanket is no good, acrilic is better. Plastic Zip lock bags, a whole box. Salt, some spices, the last of the tea. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Getting excited, heart pounding. Should I wait till they kick me out or just leave. What will my daughter think? My woman...oh no, my woman. She cannot come, she wouldn't make it more than five city blocks. She'll be okay, her and her daughter. Adrenaline rush.

These are my thoughts now. Not love, not peace, not the future, not free energy, not spirit, not meditation or incense, not transcendance, not my books, not music, not Avalon's flag, not Charles or Bill...certainly not World Peace - who cares about any of that!

I am the ego, the body. My only concern is survival and will all this stuff fit in my pack. And will I be able to heft it and how far can I get and how much will it weigh.

Luckily this isn't the first time I've thought of this. That makes it easier. I'm pretty much prepared. Wait till Val falls alsleep tonight from her multiple pain pills. Then I'll sneak out...

[truthseekerdan]

Should I wait till they kick me out or just leave.

Dear Ernie,

Please don't despair my friend -- I know you might think that it's easy for me to say it, but am pretty much in your shoes. Just did not received my notice yet...

I know people in my subdivision that received notices more than 6 months ago, and still live in their houses because they refused to leave. Nobody came to throw them out yet.

I don't know the laws in Canada (live in US myself), but I suggest that you don't leave, just stand your ground and don't fear for your rights. Do your best to stay calm.

Remember that you'll be in my prayers, and in a little while (about a month) there will be a shift in consciousness that is predicted to bring major positive changes, so hang in there.

Meanwhile if there is anything that the Avalon community can help or assist you, please don't hesitate to ask. Most of us are heart driven folks that will be glad to assist.

Take care, love and blessings sent to you and yours ~ Dan ~ ♥

[genorose]

hi greybeard
hope you are well
have begun reading some of your stuff and find it very useful and enjoyable
have put some stuff onto the forum - a bit prematurely it might seem
for a while now i think i will just observe and learn
there are some very informed peope out there on the forum
bye for now
genorose

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

Breakthroughs occur after breakdowns...then the cycle repeats.

I have just got my eviction notice. Starting to gather my survival pack. No more tent or camping gear, that's long gone. Piece of plastic will have to do. Now I see why I have been forced to shoulder a 50lb. pack for the last, what?...3yrs.?...4? I do not even know anymore. I guess this was always inevitable. I want out of this world. Always have. Will head north, into the wild. Then we'll see what happens. Got a buck knife...rope, no money for hatchet. Will bring a small saw. Compass, magnifying glass, one pot with lid, a plastic water bottle. Good clothes I have, and boots. No water tablets. Will have to boil water. I know I can survive, I have the knowledge. Just do not know if I want to, you know? My ego is loving this - the bastard! My lofty struggle is over. Now its back to basic survival. No more time to rant at the injustices of this world - or the eighteen merry men forming their next ego trip. Just me against mother nature - my love now my formidable adversary. Kill to live, gut and skin. No knowledge of plants, cant find that plant book... Do cells work in the wild? What good would it do me if it does? No cell phone then. Wind-up flashlight/radio, some anti-sceptic and gauze. Crazy glue for stubborn cuts. Duct tape! two rolls. Never know when I might have to pull a Red Green... What else, What else? Have I missed something important? Better pull out my survival notes... Heart racing now. Odd, no fear. Things far more vivid suddenly, more real. Lots of sadness though... No regrets, no finger pointing. Palms perspiring - thought that meant money's on its way - who cares. Can't eat money. Soap - have nine bars, a towel. Toilet paper - not much point to that really. Wish I had a dog,,, Bring my walking stick - carved with my initials and some runes. Luckily always kept my good back pack with waist strap! Bed roll, wool blanket is no good, acrilic is better. Plastic Zip lock bags, a whole box. Salt, some spices, the last of the tea. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Getting excited, heart pounding. Should I wait till they kick me out or just leave. What will my daughter think? My woman...oh no, my woman. She cannot come, she wouldn't make it more than five city blocks. She'll be okay, her and her daughter. Adrenaline rush.

These are my thoughts now. Not love, not peace, not the future, not free energy, not spirit, not meditation or incense, not transcendance, not my books, not music, not Avalon's flag, not Charles or Bill...certainly not World Peace - who cares about any of that!

I am the ego, the body. My only concern is survival and will all this stuff fit in my pack. And will I be able to heft it and how far can I get and how much will it weigh.

Luckily this isn't the first time I've thought of this. That makes it easier. I'm pretty much prepared. Wait till Val falls alsleep tonight from her multiple pain pills. Then I'll sneak out...


This post had me in tears. Cannot transcend ego right now.
I don´t know what to say...

All I have to offer is an Irish blessing:-

"May the long time sun
Shine upon you,
All love surround you,
And the pure light within you
Guide your way on."


Ernie, go well on your journey and take care.
Hopefully you will find a way to be with your daughter and partner, one day.

[John101]

I sent you PM message Ernie, I hope you respond to it .



Breakthroughs occur after breakdowns...then the cycle repeats.

I have just got my eviction notice. Starting to gather my survival pack. No more tent or camping gear, that's long gone. Piece of plastic will have to do. Now I see why I have been forced to shoulder a 50lb. pack for the last, what?...3yrs.?...4? I do not even know anymore. I guess this was always inevitable. I want out of this world. Always have. Will head north, into the wild. Then we'll see what happens. Got a buck knife...rope, no money for hatchet. Will bring a small saw. Compass, magnifying glass, one pot with lid, a plastic water bottle. Good clothes I have, and boots. No water tablets. Will have to boil water. I know I can survive, I have the knowledge. Just do not know if I want to, you know? My ego is loving this - the bastard! My lofty struggle is over. Now its back to basic survival. No more time to rant at the injustices of this world - or the eighteen merry men forming their next ego trip. Just me against mother nature - my love now my formidable adversary. Kill to live, gut and skin. No knowledge of plants, cant find that plant book... Do cells work in the wild? What good would it do me if it does? No cell phone then. Wind-up flashlight/radio, some anti-sceptic and gauze. Crazy glue for stubborn cuts. Duct tape! two rolls. Never know when I might have to pull a Red Green... What else, What else? Have I missed something important? Better pull out my survival notes... Heart racing now. Odd, no fear. Things far more vivid suddenly, more real. Lots of sadness though... No regrets, no finger pointing. Palms perspiring - thought that meant money's on its way - who cares. Can't eat money. Soap - have nine bars, a towel. Toilet paper - not much point to that really. Wish I had a dog,,, Bring my walking stick - carved with my initials and some runes. Luckily always kept my good back pack with waist strap! Bed roll, wool blanket is no good, acrilic is better. Plastic Zip lock bags, a whole box. Salt, some spices, the last of the tea. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Getting excited, heart pounding. Should I wait till they kick me out or just leave. What will my daughter think? My woman...oh no, my woman. She cannot come, she wouldn't make it more than five city blocks. She'll be okay, her and her daughter. Adrenaline rush.

These are my thoughts now. Not love, not peace, not the future, not free energy, not spirit, not meditation or incense, not transcendance, not my books, not music, not Avalon's flag, not Charles or Bill...certainly not World Peace - who cares about any of that!

I am the ego, the body. My only concern is survival and will all this stuff fit in my pack. And will I be able to heft it and how far can I get and how much will it weigh.

Luckily this isn't the first time I've thought of this. That makes it easier. I'm pretty much prepared. Wait till Val falls alsleep tonight from her multiple pain pills. Then I'll sneak out...

Break's my heart, I feel so useless.

[greybeard]

We can help each other here, though sharing and sending prayers and good thoughts.
The ego is not easy to transcend but little by little just by putting others first it diminishes.
Ernie and Dan you are uppermost in my thoughts.
With love
Chris.

[greybeard]

I sent you PM message Ernie, I hope you respond to it .



Breakthroughs occur after breakdowns...then the cycle repeats.

I have just got my eviction notice. Starting to gather my survival pack. No more tent or camping gear, that's long gone. Piece of plastic will have to do. Now I see why I have been forced to shoulder a 50lb. pack for the last, what?...3yrs.?...4? I do not even know anymore. I guess this was always inevitable. I want out of this world. Always have. Will head north, into the wild. Then we'll see what happens. Got a buck knife...rope, no money for hatchet. Will bring a small saw. Compass, magnifying glass, one pot with lid, a plastic water bottle. Good clothes I have, and boots. No water tablets. Will have to boil water. I know I can survive, I have the knowledge. Just do not know if I want to, you know? My ego is loving this - the bastard! My lofty struggle is over. Now its back to basic survival. No more time to rant at the injustices of this world - or the eighteen merry men forming their next ego trip. Just me against mother nature - my love now my formidable adversary. Kill to live, gut and skin. No knowledge of plants, cant find that plant book... Do cells work in the wild? What good would it do me if it does? No cell phone then. Wind-up flashlight/radio, some anti-sceptic and gauze. Crazy glue for stubborn cuts. Duct tape! two rolls. Never know when I might have to pull a Red Green... What else, What else? Have I missed something important? Better pull out my survival notes... Heart racing now. Odd, no fear. Things far more vivid suddenly, more real. Lots of sadness though... No regrets, no finger pointing. Palms perspiring - thought that meant money's on its way - who cares. Can't eat money. Soap - have nine bars, a towel. Toilet paper - not much point to that really. Wish I had a dog,,, Bring my walking stick - carved with my initials and some runes. Luckily always kept my good back pack with waist strap! Bed roll, wool blanket is no good, acrilic is better. Plastic Zip lock bags, a whole box. Salt, some spices, the last of the tea. Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Getting excited, heart pounding. Should I wait till they kick me out or just leave. What will my daughter think? My woman...oh no, my woman. She cannot come, she wouldn't make it more than five city blocks. She'll be okay, her and her daughter. Adrenaline rush.

These are my thoughts now. Not love, not peace, not the future, not free energy, not spirit, not meditation or incense, not transcendance, not my books, not music, not Avalon's flag, not Charles or Bill...certainly not World Peace - who cares about any of that!

I am the ego, the body. My only concern is survival and will all this stuff fit in my pack. And will I be able to heft it and how far can I get and how much will it weigh.

Luckily this isn't the first time I've thought of this. That makes it easier. I'm pretty much prepared. Wait till Val falls alsleep tonight from her multiple pain pills. Then I'll sneak out...

Break's my heart, I feel so useless.

John you are far from useless the moment you have enough humility to ask for help something happens and you are lifted.
You did ask.
I went through Alcoholism and was a suicidal wreck at the age of 28. After being hospitalized 3 times. I ended up being taken to AA.
That changed my life totally.
It took time and humility on my part, I had hit rock bottom my life had become un-manageable, I could not fix it unloved, unwanted.
I humbly asked my higher Power the God of m understanding, with a few slips and set backs it all came right.
I exist on benefits in a council house but I am happy and at peace with me.
I dont really like talking about me or the past but sometimes it helps.

Chris

[John101]

I appreciate that Chris, I just find it hard right now to see someone in desperate need and not have anything to offer them.
Hugs and kisses just don't seem enough right now.
Please do excuse me, I have been struggling with new emotions, tough for me to hold it together sometimes.

[greybeard]

The AA Prayer

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.


The power of prayer is not to be confused with hugs and kisses John though that helps too.

Despair has a low energy and does not help anyone.

Part of spiritual growth are famously called "Dark nights of the soul"
During these difficult times we are being purified, everything that is not the true I comes up to be burnt off by the light of consiousness.

Regards Chris
.

[John101]

The AA Prayer

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference. .

Something I already knew, but had also forgot.
It does balance it out quite well.

Many Thanks for reminding me of this.

This is why it was you that I asked.
Regards John

[9eagle9]

We all have something to offer John, truly we do. We may not have done great things in the public eye but I'm sure there's someone's life you made better in some fashion. Lots of them. Sometimes just being there and having been there suffices. We don't have to do anything but BE...there. Then whatever is required pops up.

What Ernie says is true, you start getting on the right course and things are looking up and the ball drops. Or so it seems. It's frustrating like a form of rejection. Then you go into FU God mode. A form of defensiveness. What I eventually arrived is when things started to fall it was the start of manifestation, brought on by me asking God to help me change my lifes and decisions for myself. In this case God doesn't come in as a travel agent to make arrangements, God comes in with a bulldozer and takes out all our previous constructs that we had build that were preventing us from having the life we wanted that we keep asking for. Rather you call a cleaning service to come vacuum and wipe out your counters--clean your house, and they show up with a wrecking ball instead. Sometimes the false paradigms we have created for ourselves have to come down entirely. But we are used to being attached to them.

After the intial panic, dismay and anger subside I pull myself into that allowing place, knowing this is what I've asked for even though the initial manifestation of it is rather extreme. If you can hold that space, and keep giving it over to your Higher Power. I've nearly gotten my self to a point during several catastrophes where I'm watching events with interest (oh this is going to be good) instead of panic.

But sometimes I have to be reminded to that. And that's what we do is remember to remind people of their perfect standing in life. We hold their space for them until they can remember what they knew.

@Chris,

I had often times wished I had the rock bottom and ended up at AA instead of floundering around well into my 30's and beyond, half way there and getting no place fast. For some reason I ended up with nearly all my students having come from AA and they knew how to do their work. I was supposed to be the teacher but wow did they unzip me and let it all fall out. I found out things I never knew about myself. They encouraged me to find a group for Adult Children of Alcoholics whereas my family gave me a great deal resistance because they felt our parents didn't have the sorts of issues related to alcoholism. And that somehow trying to fix myself was a bad reflection on our family. Certainly my quality of life was saved.

[John101]

I have seen that wrecking ball many times in my life, refusing to except what was happening to me, so much so it feels like I was trying to put the bricks back as fast as I could, but could never keep up with the wrecking ball.
It's a tough lesson, and painful to see people go through it.
My thoughts and best wishes are with Ernie.

[Fructedor]

The AA Prayer

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can.
Wisdom to know the difference.


The power of prayer is not to be confused with hugs and kisses John though that helps too.

Despair has a low energy and does not help anyone.

Part of spiritual growth are famously called "Dark nights of the soul"
During these difficult times we are being purified, everything that is not the true I comes up to be burnt off by the light of consiousness.

Regards Chris
.

I love that prayer - St Francis I believe - AA made a difference for me too - 12 years and 3 months. Life serves us no difficulties that we can't overcome. Despair is part of the path. And we are never alone.

Best wishes

Fructedor

[greybeard]

Making a difference.
Continuing in this mode brought up by 9eagle9

A story I love.

A couple were walking along the beach and in the distance they saw what they though was a person dancing.
Getting closer they noted 1000s of starfish stranded on the beach having been blown there in a storm of the previous night.
The person was picking up one and throwing in in the water.
The new arrival said. There are thousands you will never make a difference.
The person/dancer said as threw another starfish back in the sea.

Well it made a difference to that one!!!

We will never know the good we do by just being fully there for another, if only for a few moments.

We make a difference.

Chris

[9eagle9]

A toast to those brave people who don't flee in horror when our pain body rises.

[Fructedor]

Here's a beautiful haiku from Basho - one of my all-time favourites

The thief left it behind
the moon
at my window
(Ryo-kan)

Fructedor

[passiglight]

Whenever i am out walking even if its in a busy street if i see a worm thats been stranded on the pavement,, even if its clearly hurt or been stood on etc i always pick them up and put them on some grassy area i have benn doing this for well over 20 years,,

people often look at me trying to scrape up the worms and they are slimy and difficult to pick up sometimes,, even if it takes me 10, 15 mins,,i don't care and usually it's because it's been raining or is raining,,,i don't care, i might get soaking wet lol,,, i don't care that worm is going back to the grass,,,,,,

I wonder over the years how many i have rescued in this way,, definatly hundreds,, maybe a thousand,,

cosmic worm love :-))

[greybeard]

Whenever i am out walking even if its in a busy street if i see a worm thats been stranded on the pavement,, even if its clearly hurt or been stood on etc i always pick them up and put them on some grassy area i have benn doing this for well over 20 years,,

people often look at me trying to scrape up the worms and they are slimy and difficult to pick up sometimes,, even if it takes me 10, 15 mins,,i don't care and usually it's because it's been raining or is raining,,,i don't care, i might get soaking wet lol,,, i don't care that worm is going back to the grass,,,,,,

I wonder over the years how many i have rescued in this way,, definatly hundreds,, maybe a thousand,,

cosmic worm love :-))

No act of tenderness, of love goes unnoticed.
The reward is in the doing.
Yet each such act brings its reward at the end of ones time on earth.
The life that is in the worm is the same life that is within you.
Even the trees recognize you when you go past when you are kind to life.

c

[Bosswagon]

Whenever i am out walking even if its in a busy street if i see a worm thats been stranded on the pavement,, even if its clearly hurt or been stood on etc i always pick them up and put them on some grassy area i have benn doing this for well over 20 years,,

people often look at me trying to scrape up the worms and they are slimy and difficult to pick up sometimes,, even if it takes me 10, 15 mins,,i don't care and usually it's because it's been raining or is raining,,,i don't care, i might get soaking wet lol,,, i don't care that worm is going back to the grass,,,,,,

I wonder over the years how many i have rescued in this way,, definatly hundreds,, maybe a thousand,,

cosmic worm love :-))

whenever I see a cockroach on his back, looking dead, one of my absolute favorite things to do is pick them up on put them back on their feet, watching as they come back to life. their gratitude is palpable.

this is what Avalon is all about:

that which died yesterday will live tomorrow.

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Even the trees recognize you when you go past when you are kind to life.

c

especially the trees!

[solutions]

Whoa! So much pov and ways of undestanding What is EGO??! Here's my simple basic contribution to such a great thread :)

Popular definition of the word: Ego is a Latin word meaning "I", cognate with the Greek "Εγώ (Ego)" meaning "I".

Im my words: Ego for me is part of a by-polar self that represents the "YOU" apart from all the others. It is the one generating fear most of the time and the one exploited by TPTB to keep you in-line with the plan. It's main function is to keep you alive at all costs. Ego is able to overide your judgment if needed to insure it's survival function. The real problem is the programming we are given from day one, not ego itself.

As i said ego is part of a two part mechanism and is supposed to be buddy with it's counterpart and best friend, "the higher self". They both work hand in hand to ensure a pleasant ride in this reality.

One huge problem is that we are not thought anything about the higher self and that leaves Ego thinking hes alone in running the show and that is not what he's designed for...

Now when I accepted this concept, I could rebalance Ego and leave place for my athrophied higher self and start to explore a hole new perception of everything.

I considered myself a machine without emotions when I was run by Ego alone and it took a long journey before I could allow and accept to get myself out of the box.

Hope this help's as it did for me.

Love you all from my single dual self, 50% from ego :tea: and 50% from higher self :)