Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[bogdan9310]

A lot of people get enlightenment wrong. Some say they reached enlightened, yet they have a very narrow way at looking at the world, and nobody can tell them otherwise.
They should be able to grasp every point of view, and look at the world through more perspectives.

[greybeard]

A lot of people get enlightenment wrong. Some say they reached enlightened, yet they have a very narrow way at looking at the world, and nobody can tell them otherwise.
They should be able to grasp every point of view, and look at the world through more perspectives.

Thanks for your post.
Not being enlightened I cant say.
The truly enlightened can say--"I am the totality all of it" no individual left to claim enlightenment.
There should be unconditional love and compassion.

Best wishes
Chris

[Clear Light]

A lot of people get enlightenment wrong. Some say they reached enlightened, yet they have a very narrow way at looking at the world, and nobody can tell them otherwise.
They should be able to grasp every point of view, and look at the world through more perspectives.

Ah, now it may seem Logical for such a Proposition but what IF so-called "Enlightenment" is merely seeing "all things as they truly are", from a single all-inclusive perspective eh ?

If you feel so inclined, perhaps it may be of interest to hear what Adyashanti has to say about it, and whether or not you'd agree with him ...

jLQD90Las5c

I've just listened to this again and am quoting the following snippets from it :



Enlightenment is simply Perceiving *not* through the lens of Ego ... it's Happiness, it's Peace, it's the end of your search ... not that you find anything except Sanity ... not that you attain anything except seeing things as they are ... Enlightenment is the un-altered state of consciousness, the significant thing about those moments (satori's or awakenings to your true nature) is how much of the Egoic consciousness falls away, that's because that's what you're gonna live with right ?

:sherlock:

[greybeard]

Alan Watts ~ Learning To Have Faith On Myself ( GOD )




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DeYnrPTS8c

[greybeard]

Advaita is Vedanta - Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj by Stephen Wolinsky

Stephen Wolinsky is one of my favourite teachers.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jucif14CvjI

[greybeard]

Our true nature is immediately available



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrzCqkcDljw

[Clear Light]

The challenge is that Ramana and others met the enquirer where they stood.
The Ultimate seems to me to be that nothing happened.
I cant find the Ramana quote but it is along the lines of "Neither creation nor disolution"
Such a statement is not helpful to most.
So the sages tended to give advice--pointers relevant to the enquirers capability to understand and benefit.

Eckhart Tolle, who tends to be "user friendly" said " There was never anyone there to hurt you" that will be helpful to some but not all.
What should work for all is the statement " Be still, be quiet"
However even that has pit falls ---its a mistake to look for a result--thats what ego does.

Chris

Oh, Chris, along the same lines as what I've quoted above, from Tim's thread (Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs.../)), and perhaps of interest, is the following video from the Vedanta Society of Southern California (Published on 12 Aug 2018) :

fWX3EN5Z0Ck
"Birthless Deathless by Swami Sarvapriyananda"

Description : "Swami Sarvapriyananda goes into the Birthless Deathless verse in the Mandukya Karika, a treatise on the Mandukya Upanishad, authored by Sri Gaudapada Acharya"

. : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : .

Now my reason for posting this is because his subject for the talk (the first hour, with a Q&A section afterwards) is the so-called "final truth" of non-Dual Vedanta, a most radical statement written some 1400 years ago by Gaudapada Acharya, a radical nondualist, and it goes something like this :


There is no cessation, there is no origination, no birth, no death, there is none who is in bondage, there is nobody who is a spiritual seeker (or spiritual practitioner), there is nobody who is a seeker after liberation, there is nobody who is liberated

But at around the ten minute mark, he gives a warning, a caution : "Many people are led astray by this kind of teaching and the first thing they take away from it is oh, I don't have to meditate, I don't have to pray, I don't have to do any kind of spiritual practice", WRONG UNDERSTANDING, don't jump to such an easy conclusion, give up your spiritual practices at your peril".

And : "Then what's the point of this teaching, what do we gain from this then, what we will gain actually is a deeper understanding, a much more profound understanding of spiritual life, really what is the nature of bondage and freedom, really what is the purpose of spiritual practice, all this will become clear when we investigate this".

So whether or not you (or anybody reading this post) do indeed watch the remainder of his talk, I'd just like to say that I find it totally reassuring that there are "parallels" (or shared principles) between the various Spiritual Traditions ... it's to be expected eh ? ;)

[greybeard]

Thanks for the video, Clear Light, which gives a very clear explanation.
Chris

[greybeard]

The reason I like Stephen Wolinsky is that he shakes you free from concepts and "nesting" in the teaching of any guru.
The ego like to think "Ive found it" and therefore get stuck in a teaching.
Teachings are valuable but at best they point to Truth.

Nasargadatta was fond of saying "No thats not it"

Stephen through the teaching of Nasargadatta takes it that bit further.
Nasargadatta the only guru, as far as I know, to say that you are prior to consciousness.

Ive posted Stephens videos before but another "Repeat" below.
He sure shakes what you think you know.
However "Be still, be quiet" ( meditation) always applies as does neity neity--not this, not this.
Nasargadatta advised "First find out what your not"-- a process of elimination.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkIKXgiKvCM&t=85s

[Clear Light]

Nasargadatta advised "First find out what your not"-- a process of elimination

Ah, Yes :happythumbsup:

And on this point, I'd just like to refer to the recent video I posted (Birthless Deathless by Swami Sarvapriyananda (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWX3EN5Z0Ck)) where it gives a hint as to HOW to do it :


@44:07 "You are already that, but you miss it, why do you miss it ? Because we are looking in the wrong place, we are taken away by the contents of the mind, by the appearances of consiousness and are not looking back to that which illumines all these apperances"

:sherlock:

[Clear Light]

Oh, if I may, one more little nugget of Wisdom from a very Inspiring video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWX3EN5Z0Ck) :

40169


@15:30 The fish misses it because it is so common, it is the background of everything that the little fish knows, so that when it is told that there is water all around, where ? Where is this water ? Doesn't find it !

Our condition is like that, when we are told about "pure consciousness", the "original awareness", "original mind", it all sounds very Esoteric, [like] it's very subtle, beyond our present experience, but the fact is, it is immanent in our present experience, it is because of that consciousness, literally because of that, we are having this experience ...

:sherlock:

[greybeard]

Clear Light I am listening to Birthless, Deathless, which you posted, for the 4th time.
The talk really says it all.
A great find.
Many thanks
Chris

[Rich]

Yes CL it is funny. :bigsmile:
Uncertainty about what you must be is self-deception on a scale so vast, its magnitude can hardly be conceived.
To be alive and not to know yourself is to believe that you are really dead.

[greybeard]

I had a challenge with being God till the late Dr David Hawkins cleared that.
He said all is energy--like electricity--Creator is beyond measurement but we are electricity of a lesser voltage, some humans 40watt bulbs some 100watt--smiling.
Another way is water.
Ice very dense but still water--then there is tepid up to hot--then steam--all deniable water.
All inherently the same, different functions perhaps.
You could be a toaster or an electric cooker--as a body but take away the body and the electricity remains.
A metaphor is not it but an aid--a pointer.
Thats as best I can do

With love Chris

[Rich]

Agreed Chris it's all the same energy, the way I see it, only a few rays of light from our true being can pierce the veil (figuratively speaking). Our full being cannot be grasped as long as we have a human body.
For someone like Ramana Marharshi it was probably a bit more than a few rays, but still limited compared to what we really are.

[greybeard]

Its all levels of energy.
Dr Hawkins books are first class--I learned a lot from them.
He maintained that there are levels of enlightenment--Christ and the Buddha were at the highest level the body can hold.
Any higher would fry the body in this heavy density realm.
The awakening of Kundalini changes the body "wiring" nadis ready to accept a higher energy than it could normally cope with.
Each level of enlightenment feels complete.

Mystics tend to say that that the body is within you and you are also within it--no where that you are not.
You are form formless both and neither.
None of this can the human limited mind get.

Enlightenment is still a rare event--but there does seem to be an accelerating increase.--that's what the Universe wants.
Its cyclic --the Yugas--we may be heading for a Golden Age again.
Who knows!!!
To the Ultimate none of this is. No time no place--no subject no object --nothing happened-- all Indras dream.

I knew so much years ago, or so I thought.
Now its, keep it simple chris.

Love Chris

[greybeard]

Papaji - Its So Simple


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhCk6sieMA

[Shadowman]

Clear Light I am listening to Birthless, Deathless, which you posted, for the 4th time.
The talk really says it all.
A great find.
Many thanks
Chris

So true, Chris. Both this and the Papaji video are excellent.

Thankyou for your continued service on this thread to all who seek the truth, it is a wonderful resource,

Cheers
tim

[Rich]

Papaji - Its So Simple


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhCk6sieMA

I have the impression that some people on the spiritual path, especially in neo-advaita for example, think, "doing nothing" means to continue doing what they are doing, or even to stop meditating.
But in actuality it literally means to do nothing. Try as hard as you can not to make an effort :bigsmile:


I put some key points from that video that can be used as a meditation:

7:00
If you do not think of time and space, then you will find yourself.
That you have been already always free. Where there has been no death and birth and samsara. It is not difficult because it already here. No effort.

Not even a mentation of a single thought.
Don't start a thought, don't make any effort and then you are not in time.
Make this method and you will see there exists no one. You are all alone, not even alone.
Alone, you can say when there have been a concept of twoness, the other. And where there is someone else, the other, there is falsehood. Don't touch it.

[Clear Light]

Papaji - Its So Simple


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhCk6sieMA

Oh, having just watched the above video, Chris, I feel-to-the-pit-of-my-stomach how so far removed from his "truth" is Mooji right now, because if he was to watch the same video he'd probably want to throw up, given how it seems as if he has taken on some God-like role eh ?

:sherlock:

There's this (6 minute) video from Facebook (if you use it) called "Mooji doesn't want you to see this video (https://www.facebook.com/QuestioningMooji/videos/549952788843886/)" (also here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YZMHG0O8N6zPoXdvxbYjLy_G55WKBVwJ) for non-Facebook users) and, as I see "it", if one just listens to Papaji's outright refusal to even consider himself in a Guru role doesn't it, by the same token, automatically "condemn" Mooji as a False-Guru ?

If you watch Mooji being "fawned over" how is that in anyway pointing anybody to their True Nature ?

:silent:

[greybeard]

Clear Light.
I dont know.

My thought overall tends to be that devotees ruin the object of their affection.
Some women want to sleep with them --whatever-- they are put on a pedestal as in"You can fix me and my life--let me be special in my devotion to you".
My guru is the best and I found him.
I may of course be wrong in that assumption.

I get uncomfortable when Guru's start to get a large following.
All of a sudden its that big (business) that it has to be managed by volunteers--products for sale etc.
The Guru is taken over by well meaning devotees.
That's just my thought of the moment.

Stephen Wolinsky I get because he has said that Nasargadatta would not get a following in California.
Stephen keeps pretty low key his self, only once mentions the light that was passed through him by Nasargadatta and what followed.
Most of his work free on his website
No claims made.
Stephen is very blunt as was Nasargadatta, who was inclined to chase away people after they had visited him a few times.
He would say forget me, forget the teaching.
Nasargadatta was also the only guru, according to Stephen, to claim that we are prior to consciousness.

Its immaterial to me where I am--enough just to be simple.

Love Chris

[Rich]

Good point Clear Light, That is something I have noticed about the guru business,
if they know you are the same would they expect your admiration?
There is NO ONE above you, except God.
Should you bow to someone who is your equal?
Should you call someone mother/father when they are your sister/brother?


Here is what Jesus said in ACIM:

You are a perfect creation, and should experience awe only in the Presence of the Creator of perfection. The miracle is therefore a sign of love among equals. Equals should not be in awe of one another because awe implies inequality. It is therefore an inappropriate reaction to me. An elder brother is entitled to respect for his greater experience, and obedience for his greater wisdom. He is also entitled to love because he is a brother, and to devotion if he is devoted. It is only my devotion that entitles me to yours. There is nothing about me that you cannot attain. I have nothing that does not come from God. The difference between us now is that I have nothing else. This leaves me in a state which is only potential in you.
"No man cometh unto the Father but by me" does not mean that I am in any way separate or different from you except in time, and time does not really exist.

[greybeard]

A Guru - Stephen Wolinsky.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0OOpbmO8PU

[greybeard]

THE ULTIMATE MEDICINE - PART ONE - Nisargadatta Maharaj - lomakayu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_y-mna5Po

[Rich]

Nasargadatta was also the only guru, according to Stephen, to claim that we are prior to consciousness.


Yeah he makes some claims like that,
also Jac O'Keeffe said after a while you will see being isn't real either.
What that means?
Who knows, if waking up was extinction as Stephen Wolinsky says, what would be the point of it?
I think these are very subjective interpretations.

_Y_ODbzXrGo

[greybeard]

The word Nirvana means extinction.
Its just the end of the belief in a separate person.
You have to die to be born again probably a miss quote.
So the ego the assumption of a separate persona "dies" and Truth is revealed.
The word nirvana means different things to different people.
We are trying to understand with a human mind.
God is not human--there is nothing but Divine energy.

Chris

[Rich]

Well what they seem to say is that you will cease to know of your existence altogether, not just the ego.
IMO we can never be unaware of our existence because than there would be no point in existing in the first place.

[greybeard]

Well what they seem to say is that you will cease to know of your existence altogether, not just the ego.
IMO we can never be unaware of our existence because than there would be no point in existing in the first place.

Till we get there Rich we will not understand.
There can be awareness without subject or object.
A baby ,seemingly, is not aware of separation till it learns language.
Who knows!!! I dont.
Just guessing.
Just passing non existent time---smiling

Chris

[Rich]

There is no death Chris, how can it be death to see what you are?
I was standing before the abyss many times, thinking that it would delete me and turn around,
but one day it happened and I saw it was just myself.

[greybeard]

There is no death Chris, how can it be death to see what you are?
I was standing before the abyss many times, thinking that it would delete me and turn around,
but one day it happened and I saw it was just myself.

Mystics call this Self realization.
The Self is eternal-the body the ego is not.
Chris

[Shadowman]

THE ULTIMATE MEDICINE - PART ONE - Nisargadatta Maharaj - lomakayu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_y-mna5Po

Both the Preface and the Editor's Notes are also helpful for those who perceive apparent inconsistencies or "elasticity" in relation to terms used by Nisargadatta ie I amness, being, self/Self, awareness/Awareness, consciousness, etc... depending upon both the context and the person being addressed;

https://holybooks-lichtenbergpress.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Nisargadatta-Maharaj-The-Ultimate-Medicine.pdf

Many think that Nirvana/Self Realisation is a form of extinction or void. The apparent paradox, put simply, is that in the Absolute, there is Absolute Awareness/Beingness, but no sense of a relative or extant self. From the point of view of the ego, it is extinction, but both the ego and it's associated memories/beliefs/identifications etc are just temporary illusions. Even a clear intellectual understanding of this is not of much use, it just "adds" knowledge to the ego, it must be realised directly...

What is (Absolute) IS, what isn't (Relative) ISN'T (and never was).

The more you think about it, the more you talk about it, the further you are from it...

Those who speak (Relative/jiva/self) do not know, those who know (Absolute/Brahman/Self) do not speak...

Be still and know that you are God...

Look for it, and it can’t be seen.
Listen for it, and it can’t be heard.
Grasp for it, and it can’t be caught.
These three cannot be further described,
so we treat them as The One...

With Love,
tim

[Rich]

Perhaps it is a mistranslation or misunderstanding but as I remember Nisragadatta sometimes said he doesn't know that he exists until he comes out from the absolute, (in his later books probably) you can also hear it in the audio Chris posted but don't know where anymore.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkIKXgiKvCM&t=85s
Stephen Wolinsky says Nirvana means extinction 2:40-3:20

Anyway, I think it can be misleading some 10 years ago or so I actually believed him.

[greybeard]

Eckhart Tolle speaks of the "enlightenment experience" it seems very real and can last months but there is still a person experiencing it.
The ego thinks it can become an enlightened ego.
There is no person left to claim enlightenment.

Once upon a time I followed one teachers pointing--I was nesting--got off at the station.
I now tend to cross check various teachers pointing--im not stuck in any particular methodology or guru.
Though I benefit from quite a few.
Paradoxes quite a few--but that relates to the context--where the question came from.
Nasargadatta was not keen on the book "I am That" because it related to questions and answers based on that context.
Remove context and misunderstandings occur.
The more I know the less I know.
"Thats not it" much used statement of Nasargadatta.

Tony Parsons was famous for giving up the quest and going playing golf--the awakening was spontaneous.
However the "work" had be put in.

Chris

[greybeard]

Alan Watts - The Intelligence Beyond Thoughts

Alan Watts. Alan Wilson Watts (6 January 1915 – 16 November 1973) was a British philosopher, writer, and speaker, best known as an interpreter and populariser of Eastern philosophy for a Western audience.

Born in Chislehurst, England, he moved to the United States in 1938 and began Zen training in New York.

Check out best of Alan Watts talks here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppGMT2mRelc

[Rich]

Paradoxes quite a few--but that relates to the context--where the question came from.
Nasargadatta was not keen on the book "I am That" because it related to questions and answers based on that context.
Remove context and misunderstandings occur.

Context is important I'm sure.
I also believe that he came to greater realizations over the years and that is why he said different things when he got older.
For example in 'I am that' he said you are the I am, but later on he is saying you are beyond it, if I remember correctly.

Personally I take everything with a grain of salt, because firstly their perspective is subjective and secondly you may interpret their words differently than they mean it.

Think not you understand anything until you pass the test of perfect peace, for peace and understanding go together and never can be found alone.

[greybeard]

Rupert Spira - The Moment Of Enlightenment


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaU5Za7i0Dg

[Rich]

There is no person left to claim enlightenment.


That is an interesting proposition Chris, was thinking about it for a long time.

Some people do claim to be enlightened.
I am not sure what enlightenment is, if it is the understanding that there is only One Being, then who can say they are enlightened?
Can the dream character claim to be the dreamer of the dream?

Maybe you could tell me what Rupert defines as enlightenment in that video? Because I am not supposed to use up bandwidth where I am, so can't watch videos.

[greybeard]

There is no one left to claim enlightenment. Its a standard statement that the enlightened say--no me--there ever was.
Enlightenment is the removal of ignorance--the idea that there is a seperate individual--only "God" exists and you are That energy.
Tim's opening post says it--no preposition no I
Im lucky here I can download as much as I want no limit.

Just an empty knowing space is how Rupert describes it.
You could say silent awareness.
Chris

[greybeard]

When you are watching a TV screen it looks 3 dimensional--go and touch the screen and there is the realisation that the picture is in the screen--thats enlightenment the removal of the thought that what you see is three dimensional reality--back on the sofa the screen pictures continue but there is knowledge the knowing that its a screen that holds the picture.
So for the enlightened there is the knowledge that its "Maya" which continues but not seen as separate by a separate person.
We are always one with the experience.
No subject no object no otherness.
Nothing seperate is happenning
Thats a resume as best I can Rich--but they way he says it is very clear.

[Shadowman]

Perhaps it is a mistranslation or misunderstanding but as I remember Nisragadatta sometimes said he doesn't know that he exists until he comes out from the absolute, (in his later books probably) you can also hear it in the audio Chris posted but don't know where anymore.

Stephen Wolinsky says Nirvana means extinction 2:40-3:20

Anyway, I think it can be misleading some 10 years ago or so I actually believed him.


Hi Rich,

You are perhaps referring to the last paragraph of chapter 1 in The Ultimate Medicine.

https://holybooks-lichtenbergpress.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Nisargadatta-Maharaj-The-Ultimate-Medicine.pdf


In that context he was instructing others to remain silent whilst not yet established in the Absolute Self, utilising the instrument of mind in the novice ie one experiencing satori, or Manolaya (temporary abeyance of the mind) results in a re-emergence of self. To the Awakened (ie established in Totality/Brahman/Self/Manonasa), while the body/mind remains, it is not experienced as separate from Reality, and such advice does not apply (One need not carry the raft after crossing the river of illusion).

Otherwise all “whom” have awakened would remain silent. Nisargadatta repeatedly makes it clear in his responses that the Self is unchanging, beginningless and endless. When placed into context in the larger body of his work (or even this book) this becomes quite clear.

He also makes it clear when and how he awakened. While his mind and body, and therefore his capacity to convey his realisation may have changed with age, “That” which he was pointing towards was eternal and unchanging.

A close reading of Chapter 2 will perhaps convey why you are still interpreting his words differently to that which was intended.

As to extinction, and Nirvana, or “blowing out the candle”, Nisargdatta’s response on p7 clearly shows his direct realisation of the Totality of Awareness, and the Self which is aware of the disappearance of the relative “I am” or conditioned awareness.

It is important to note that realisation has nothing to do with beliefs, which as you expressed, have changed over time in relation to your understanding of Nirvana. It is perhaps also worth noting, that the ego is a cunning son-of-a-bitch. Notice that coincidentally, all of your interpretations of Awakening/Enlightenment/Self/God/ego etc by the mind, together with their implications, allow this “I” to continue on it’s merry way unchallenged ie

“I” don’t think I have an ego… so no need to "drop" identification with it.
If awakening is extinction what’s the point?
Why listen to those who are awake if you believe they are mistaken?
No one who is “enlightened” can speak unless they "come out" of the Absolute...
No human can become fully awakened while on earth.
Why engage in disciplined Sadhana if you are already “part of God?”

Steady practice, over time, will not only reveal the intricacies of the defenses of the the ego, but, miraculously, reveal that You never were born, never were separate, and never will die. These words are not written to criticise, but to bring clarity, when you are ready. No hurry, no worry though, whether in this life, the next, or a thousand lifetimes, or even here and now, all awaken eventually. What is unreal cannot be sustained indefinitely.

In the “extinction” of Nirvana, there is only one thing that is actually lost...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXi38hV9zvQ

In Lak’ech
tim

[greybeard]

Tim, thanks for the clarification in your recent posts.
With love
Ch

[Rich]

Thanks Chris and tim lots of food for thought...or non-thought if you prefer.




Hi Rich,

You are perhaps referring to the last paragraph of chapter 1 in The Ultimate Medicine.

In that context he was instructing others to remain silent whilst not yet established in the Absolute Self, utilising the instrument of mind in the novice ie one experiencing satori, or Manolaya (temporary abeyance of the mind) results in a re-emergence of self. To the Awakened (ie established in Totality/Brahman/Self/Manonasa), while the body/mind remains, it is not experienced as separate from Reality, and such advice does not apply (One need not carry the raft after crossing the river of illusion).

So you are saying, if you are fully realized you can talk/be active even while in Brahman and those who have partial understanding cannot talk while absorbed in Brahman yet.




Why listen to those who are awake if you believe they are mistaken?

I do respect the achievement of those who have realized, I just think Self realization never ends, there is always more to it than we think. Like Lester Levenson said we are "unlimited beings with unlimited joy".:yes4:


Steady practice, over time, will not only reveal the intricacies of the defenses of the the ego, but, miraculously, reveal that You never were born, never were separate, and never will die. These words are not written to criticise, but to bring clarity, when you are ready. No hurry, no worry though, whether in this life, the next, or a thousand lifetimes, or even here and now, all awaken eventually. What is unreal cannot be sustained indefinitely.

Agreed, as Ramana said, one must not rest content with the pleasure of laya but must press on until all duality ceases.



In the “extinction” of Nirvana, there is only one thing that is actually lost...

...suffering.:)

[greybeard]

I watched the film Illusions--- part posted by tim.
Anthony Hopkins the actor brilliant.
He is "interested" in "spirituality"
Thanks for reminding me of an amazing film tim
Ch.

[greybeard]

Alan Watts - Is Free Will An Illusion?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2B4YVfCJ94

[Rich]

That is an interesting idea Chris, someone said the only free will we have is love, since that is what we really want. So when we are being loving we have free will, because we are free.

[greybeard]

Hi Rich
Yes but do we really choose who and what we express love to?
According to Nasargadatta only the enlightened express unconditional love because in us ordinary mortals (Unenlightened) there is always an agenda if only to feel spiritual or good,--the sages have no need of our love their love for man kind is unconditional.

Mother Teresa when asked how she could look after lepers--her response.
"I see everyone as Christ in disguise"
Which is more or less what Alan Watts says at the end of the video.

Love Chris

[greybeard]

Alan Watts ~ You Are The Cosmos Expressing Itself In This (Ego) Body




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW3AIdzqz6U

[Rich]

Yes but do we really choose who and what we express love to?

Yeah, everything we experience in this illusion is our choice, but if we accept that we are as God created us, where is the question of choice?
Then all choice is merely illusion, there is no alternative of being something else.

[Shadowman]

Another excellent video by Swami Sarvapriyananda, lucidly explaining the distinction between the relative and the Absolute;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykcdg0Vd3I4

[greybeard]

I must admit I am most drawn to teachings from India, the cradle of spirituality.
There is a depth therein which is rarely found in Western talks.
Those who speak Sanskrit have that in depth knowledge, so the video above, posted by tim is excellent and filled with humour, which is one of the marks of a True teacher.

Chris

[greybeard]

Do we have Free Will? by Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzbyeU3dK4g&t=28s

Swami Sarvapriyananda speaks on “Do we have Free Will?” at the Vedanta Society of New York on March 18, 2018 | Vedanta NY Still haven’t subscribed to VEDANTA NY on YouTube? ►► http://bit.ly/SubVedantaNY While you subscribe, please also turn the notification bell on.

[greybeard]

Non-dualism: Being & Manifestation | Swami Sarvapriyananda



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITyTsRm7Ixc

Swami Sarvapriyananda gives a discourse on the underlying concepts and significance of non-dualism. This lecture is part of a series of talks inspired by Swami Vivekananda's Jnana Yoga. ► To support the Vedanta Society of New York: http://bit.ly/SupportVedantaNY Web: http://vedantany.org Soundcloud: http://Soundcloud.com/VedantaNY iTunes Podcast: http://bit.ly/vedanta-talks-itunes Google Play: http://bit.ly/vedanta-talks-google-play ABOUT VEDANTA Vedanta is one of the world’s most ancient religious philosophies and one of its broadest. Based on the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of India, Vedanta affirms the oneness of existence, the divinity of the soul, and the harmony of religions. ABOUT US Vedanta Society of New York is affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India. In fact, this is the Order's first Center started by Swami Vivekananda, in 1894. It was a historic event, for the seed of the world-wide Ramakrishna Movement was sown here in New York over a century ago. Swami Sarvapriyananda is the present Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.

[Guish]

The merits of water.

https://youtu.be/HmKCrcu-xKs

[greybeard]

Ramana Maharshi Talks -Teachings In His Own Words - Audiobook - Lomakayu
This is text taken from Arthur Osborne wonderful book. Since starting these projects I have found it best to leave out commentaries and interpretations and just let these great masters speak in their own words. I think it allows a mood to sustain itself and their wisdom to slip past our conceptual minds. Lomakayu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_HgOsAU5_I

[greybeard]

|| Maya || by Swami Sarvapriyananda
Swami Sarvapriyananda gives a discourse on the nature of Maya (Illusion or Ignorance). This lecture is part of a series of talks inspired by Swami Vivekananda's Jnana Yoga. ► To support the Vedanta Society of New York: http://bit.ly/SupportVedantaNY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxUXl2YXXL4

Swami well worth listening to.
His knowledge and humour is outstanding.
Chris

[greybeard]

People with a belief in ‘oneness’ tend to be happier, new research shows
Yahoo News UK Rob Waugh,Yahoo News UK


Do you believe in oneness (Getty)

There’s one personality trait which is linked to happiness – a belief in ‘oneness’, which leads people to be more hopeful and think of their lives more positively.

Oneness is a feeling that everything in the world is interconnected and interdependent, the researchers say.

The findings were based on two large-scale surveys involving nearly 75,000 people in Germany.

Researchers from the University of Mannheim found that people who reported high scores for oneness (by agreeing with questions like, ‘I believe that everything in the world is based on a common principle’), reported higher life satisfaction.

Lead author Laura Marie Edinger-Schons said, ‘The results of this study reveal a significant positive effect of oneness beliefs on life satisfaction, even controlling for religious beliefs.

She said, ‘”The feeling of being at one with a divine principle, life, the world, other people or even activities has been discussed in various religious traditions but also in a wide variety of scientific research from different disciplines.

Edinger-Schons said, ‘I recognised that in various philosophical and religious texts, a central idea is the idea of oneness.

‘In my free time, I enjoy surfing, Capoeira, meditation and yoga, and all of these have been said to lead to experiences that can be described as being at one with life or nature or just experiencing a state of flow through being immersed in the activity. I was wondering whether the larger belief in oneness is something that is independent of religious beliefs and how it affects satisfaction with life.’

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/people-belief-oneness-tend-happier-new-research-shows-200441252.html

Well well--never thought I would see the day.
Oneness on Yahoo news.
Chris

[greybeard]

Realise Your Self in One Hour!

Satsang with Mooji at the International Yoga Festival
4 March 2019

This beautiful and powerful Satsang takes place when Moojibaba visits the International Yoga Festival at Parmarth Niketan. Speaking with an audience of many who are coming to Satsang for the first time, Moojibaba presents the quintessence of his pointing with a clear and simple guidance.

"This was for myself the best way of spending this hour with you. What I have endeavoured to share with you is the quintessence of advaitic thought—many people have studied religion and spirituality for many many years. Many people say 'I have studied spirituality for many years, but I have the knowledge, not the experience.' Today I have endeavoured to share the experience of it.

If you can study something, but not live it, then what value is it? Belief is great, but it must convert into experience."

This and many other videos are available on https://mooji.tv



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avBiFr-VavA

[greybeard]

|| Our Real Nature || by Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylkIS3HE4gQ

[Rich]

About the question of choice from ACIM

The power of decision is my own.

No one can suffer loss unless it be his own decision. No one suffers pain except his choice elects this state for him. No one can grieve nor fear nor think him sick unless these are the outcomes that he wants. And no one dies without his own consent. Nothing occurs but represents your wish, and nothing is omitted that you choose. Here is your world, complete in all details. Here is its whole reality for you. And it is only here salvation is.

You may believe that this position is extreme, and too inclusive to be true. Yet can truth have exceptions? If you have the gift of everything, can loss be real? Can pain be part of peace, or grief of joy? Can fear and sickness enter in a mind where love and perfect holiness abide? Truth must be all-inclusive, if it be the truth at all. Accept no opposites and no exceptions, for to do so is to contradict the truth entirely.

[Guish]

The Guest House
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

Rumi

[greybeard]

Seeing God in Everything | Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DsiJz6OETg

Inspired by Swami Vivekananda's Jnana Yoga, Swami Sarvapriyananda gives a discourse based on the essay: "God in Everything". ► To support the Vedanta Society of New York: http://bit.ly/SupportVedantaNY Web: http://vedantany.org Soundcloud: http://Soundcloud.com/VedantaNY iTunes Podcast: http://bit.ly/vedanta-talks-itunes Google Play: http://bit.ly/vedanta-talks-google-play ABOUT VEDANTA Vedanta is one of the world’s most ancient religious philosophies and one of its broadest. Based on the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of India, Vedanta affirms the oneness of existence, the divinity of the soul, and the harmony of religions. ABOUT US Vedanta Society of New York is affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India. In fact, this is the Order's first Center started by Swami Vivekananda, in 1894. It was a historic event, for the seed of the world-wide Ramakrishna Movement was sown here in New York over a century ago. Swami Sarvapriyananda is the present Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.

[Wind]

aAydC8nF038

[greybeard]

FROM NO-KNOWINGNESS, SUDDENLY "I AM" ~ NISARGADATTA - I AM UNBORN - PART 7 - lomakayu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV51roEhNQ8

[Wind]

fPs510TWiOw

[greybeard]

Mystery of History 2 - Worlds destroyed & Ages Lost before Present Iron Age (Kali-Yuga)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4V7MDP0uKc

Paul Sandhu
Published on 10 Oct 2018
Part 1: https://youtu.be/_Y72XwKLquQ
How old is Creation? A lot older than most people realize; Creation before Evil entered it was Perfect, and called The Golden Age! After the rise of Evil, decay and destruction set in, and worlds were built and destroyed in Ages long past into history. History can be divided in to 4 Ages: Gold, Silver, Bronze and the Present Iron Age!

Mystery of History 1 - Before Time Began / The Golden Age of Creation


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y72XwKLquQ

Disclaimer
Not everything I post is in line with my current belief
Some great pictures in the videos, which is my main reason for posting.
Chris

[greybeard]

A MUST SEE!!! The Most Eye Opening 10 Minutes Of Your Life | Dr. Bruce Lipton




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCIgxYuNGu0

[Clear Light]

Oh, I'm posting this video because in the final nine minutes of it (from 20:15), Alan Wallace clearly (and with great clarity) describes how it is possible to cut through to the Ground of Awareness beyond the Conceptual Mind ... now if you have any interest in Meditation and penetrating directly through to the "Ground State of YOUR own Awareness" (as he puts it) I'd suggest spending a little time listening to what is said eh ? ;)

DG1k8E_YDjo

Description : Wisdom Publications Inc. Published on 13 Jun 2016 "The lecture portion of a Wisdom Event with renowned Tibetan Buddhist scholar and teacher B. Alan Wallace"

:sherlock:

PS : This is in response to Constance's thread Inner peace in a modern world (How to have) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106846-Inner-peace-in-a-modern-world--How-to-have-) but I didn't want to Hijack that thread away from its "topic of interest" and feel it is perhaps better shared here ? :heart:

[greybeard]

How Can I Help Others? | Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbuckXm-5I

[Guish]

uKJt3lwMlYg

A very good story about our real nature and how external factors tend to make us forget our real nature.

Love and light,
Geerish.

[greybeard]

The Harmony of Knowledge and Devotion in the Bhagavad Gita | Swami Atmapriyananda

Swami Atmapriyananda (Physicist & Vice Chancellor at Ramakrishna Mission Vivekananda University) speaks on the harmony of knowledge and devotion in the Bhagavad Gita.
► To support the Vivekananda University: http://rkmvu.ac.in/donations-to-vario... Web: http://vedantany.org Soundcloud: http://Soundcloud.com/VedantaNY iTunes Podcast: http://bit.ly/vedanta-talks-itunes Google Play: http://bit.ly/vedanta-talks-google-play

ABOUT VEDANTA Vedanta is one of the world’s most ancient religious philosophies and one of its broadest.
Based on the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of India, Vedanta affirms the oneness of existence, the divinity of the soul, and the harmony of religions.

ABOUT US Vedanta Society of New York is affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India. In fact, this is the Order's first Center started by Swami Vivekananda, in 1894.
It was a historic event, for the seed of the world-wide Ramakrishna Movement was sown here in New York over a century ago.

Swami Sarvapriyananda is the present Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0kZ7RG6H-8&t=115s

[greybeard]

Swami Sarvapriyananda | Foundations of the Advaita Path



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MATc6_YVuBQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlBh1ORllmI&t=22s

[greybeard]

Merging experience with myself...Rupert Spira



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgPk-pPbHF0

[Wind]

skFQck_gWT8

[Clear Light]

https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1180155817l/1005708.jpg

Oh, I'm currently reading David Carse's book "Perfect Brilliant Stillness" and am enjoying it very much, laughing out loud repeatedly ... now I've just read the following (from page 88) and "feel" it is very apropos of my recent Avalon debating :


"I trust I make myself obscure?" It’s really not the intention, but do you see why I prefer to go about my work and not talk about this much, why so much of what everyone is involved in makes so little sense; why it is so difficult even to understand questions and sometimes impossible to answer them? Everybody's running around everywhere thinking they actually exist ! It's the silliest damn thing that's ever been seen! And anything that I can say all comes out gibberish ranting, sounds like reading the label on the bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap that you can find in health food stores. “All One, Eternally One, All One or none ! Exceptions Eternally? Absolute none !" And so on, ad infinitum; it's great stuff, but does anyone take it seriously ? The man's raving !

Perhaps you too may like to have a read of his Awakening from the Dream of Separation (here (https://ia800109.us.archive.org/0/items/PerfectBrilliantStillnessDavidCarseEbookPDF/Ebook_Perfect_Brilliang_Stillness_David_Carse_output1.pdf)) eh ? ;)

[greybeard]

Alan Watts ~ How To Get Out Of Your Own Way


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jBd4fArfQ

[Clear Light]

How To Get Out Of Your Own Way

Oh, it sounds somewhat like Koan : "How To Get Out Of Your Own Way" ? ;)

Not that "I" have watched the video, but in some senses Greybeard, and this is meant in a Rhetorical sense (so "I" am not asking "you" specifically) BUT :

WHO is there to get "out of the way" ? HOW can the illusory sense-of-self *DO* that ? :sherlock:

To what seems like a concrete-felt-sense-of-I (the ego), perhaps the injunction to investigate whether such apparent Substantiveness is even Justifiable may be Productive ?

IF one "turns their attention" inwards (so-to-say) for a sustained period of "time" what is Found (if anything) ?

"You" can't "think" your way to "Enlightenment", it's not a Goal that is Attainable, that's just more Ego-seeking-cause-and-effect eh ? :P

Anyhow, this dreamlike "I" character has got to "get ready for work" :bigsmile:

[greybeard]

How To Get Out Of Your Own Way

Oh, it sounds somewhat like Koan : "How To Get Out Of Your Own Way" ? ;)

Not that "I" have watched the video, but in some senses Greybeard, and this is meant in a Rhetorical sense (so "I" am not asking "you" specifically) BUT :

WHO is there to get "out of the way" ? HOW can the illusory sense-of-self *DO* that ? :sherlock:

To what seems like a concrete-felt-sense-of-I (the ego), perhaps the injunction to investigate whether such apparent Substantiveness is even Justifiable may be Productive ?

IF one "turns their attention" inwards (so-to-say) for a sustained period of "time" what is Found (if anything) ?

"You" can't "think" your way to "Enlightenment", it's not a Goal that is Attainable, that's just more Ego-seeking-cause-and-effect eh ? :P

Anyhow, this dreamlike "I" character has got to "get ready for work" :bigsmile:

Spiritual teaching leads you by the nose from where "your" concepts beliefs are.
Hard to swallow that you dont actually exist as an individual----so baby steps takes "you" to Truth at least as an understanding.
Allan Watts was a practical Zen teacher.
Catches your attention then demolishes the idea of a me.

C

[Wind]

"I believe that—if we are honest with ourselves—that the most fascinating problem in the world is Who am I? What do you mean, what do you feel when you say the word I? I, myself. I don’t think there can be any more fascinating preoccupation than that, because it’s so mysterious; it’s so elusive."

~ Alan Watts

The tao of philosophy 5: Myth of myself (https://www.organism.earth/library/document/83)

[greybeard]

Thanks for posting the link Wind.
As usual your posts make a significant contribution to this thread, which really is about the eternal question
"Who am I?"
Chris

[justntime2learn]

I listened to the video this morning before work and really enjoyed it.

I nominate Alan Watts for the one liner of the day!

"If you want life, don't cling to it"
That line really resonated with me!

[greybeard]

I listened to the video this morning before work and really enjoyed it.

I nominate Alan Watts for the one liner of the day!

"If you want life, don't cling to it"
That line really resonated with me!

Alan Watt came out as the most respected --top spiritual teacher of our time on one list.
I get a lot from him.
One pointer to a genuine enlightened teacher is to my mind the humour.

Thanks for your post justntime2learn.

Chris

[greybeard]

Alan Watts - Trust Your Nature [Great Talk]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFTo6TA9iJw

[Wind]

YpjOGceW2Fw

[greybeard]

CREATION


The Master was known to side with the revolutionaries, even at the risk of
incurring the displeasure of the government.

When someone asked him why he himself did not actively plunge into social
revolution, he replied with this enigmatic proverb:

"Sitting quietly doing nothing. Spring comes and the grass grows."

Anthony de Mello, SJ


MORSEL: Serenity Isn't freedom from the storm, it is peace within the
storm.



C

[Clear Light]

CREATION


The Master was known to side with the revolutionaries, even at the risk of
incurring the displeasure of the government.

When someone asked him why he himself did not actively plunge into social
revolution, he replied with this enigmatic proverb:

"Sitting quietly doing nothing. Spring comes and the grass grows."

Anthony de Mello, SJ


MORSEL: Serenity Isn't freedom from the storm, it is peace within the
storm.



C

Ah, or might I suggest : "Freedom isn't FOR the self but FROM the self" eh ? ;)

Just as with the Ocean and the Wave analogy, it doesn't matter how TALL or how SMALL or how ENERGETIC the Wave is, they are ALL equally WATER so, similarly, "you" are encouraged to investigate the Nature of ALL "your" Mind-States to see IF there is some kind of Common Ground to them ALL ?

Hint : A "meditation" on the meaning of "Emptiness" may help !

In this way, one isn't "carried away" by such "Powerful Currents" and it is possible to "Rest more Deeply" eh ? :sun:

[greybeard]

DISCOVERY OF THE CENTURY | "This Will Change The Entire Humanity" | Gregg Braden and Bruce Lipton



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZleBHyaeSM

[O Donna]

When someone asked him why he himself did not actively plunge into social
revolution, he replied with this enigmatic proverb:

"Sitting quietly doing nothing. Spring comes and the grass grows."

Ideas spring:

The power of distraction.

"No one is driving if you are distracted."

https://labicikleta.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Porquenovenaciclistas_Shutterstock.jpg

P.s. Just noticed the cell phone case in the above pic. The universe is not without its sense of irony. lol

No matter the task, it is a distraction in one form or another.

Now, back to your undistracted life, I jest, I jest.

[greybeard]

Am I an Empath or a Doormat? (Or both?!) And what can I do about it?
People who are super sensitive people and empaths are very susceptible to becoming doormats unlike people who are less empathetic or who who are less sensitive to the emotions of the people around them. In this video I talk about what it means to be an empath and share my personal experience as both an empath, and as a recovering people pleaser. I hope this video helps you learn to take your power back, and give up being a doormat. For more info please visit: anitamoorjani.com


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enkB4F4tSdw&feature=youtu.be

[greybeard]

The Truth We Are ~ India Journal 2019
Dear Friends,

We are very happy to share with you The Truth We Are ~ India Journal 2019. This touching and powerful video compilation highlights moments from this year's Satsang season with Mooji in Rishikesh.

These journals, which began with the first Sahaja journal in 2017, share the spontaneous moments that unfold around Mooji outside of the Satsang hall, showing us how Satsang is embodied and expressed in everyday life.

This journal is a testament to the beauty and spiritual wealth of India, where Moojibaba met his own master Sri Harilal Poonja, lovingly called Papaji by his disciples. Through the eyes of Mooji and the Sangha, we see India as a place where spirituality is woven into the fabric of everyday life, where awakening is deeply honoured and cherished, and so it is very natural that Satsang can happen and flower there.

It is with deep love and gratitude that we present this India Journal, giving thanks to the worldwide Sangha and all those in whose hearts lives a love for truth and freedom.

As this India Journal is such a beautiful expression of Satsang in daily life, we are also sharing it as Satsang of the Week.

Thanks for all,


Mooji team


https://mooji.tv/freemedia/the-truth-we-are-india-journal-2019/

[greybeard]

What is Vedanta? | Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AawWsJNi0gM

[Clear Light]

40656

Oh, I suspect he probably doesn't mean the Self-Realisation form of Enlightenment eh ? ;)


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--gBacee9PhI/TXRExSTJA7I/AAAAAAAAD7g/_8AkTidEpjg/s1600/mapa%2Bauto%2Brealiza%25C3%25A7%25C3%25A3o.jpg


From : Sri Nisargadatta's Spiritual Treasures (https://nisargadattasspiritualtreasures.wordpress.com/)

[O Donna]

Wow, that is a lot of arrows that convey movement.

In meditative poise, movement loses all meaning.

Granted, arrows are useful up to a point.

[Clear Light]

Ah, but on the "other hand", for the non-gradual Traditions, by which I mean Zen or Dzogchen for example, the so-called Sudden or Instantaneous "paths", the above "map" is more than likely seen as just one more Distraction, yet another Concept, perhaps even a cause for Confusion because in such Esoteric "lineages", there is no "self" to which "movement" or "progress" is relevant !

Indeed, in his last days, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj said much the same thing :


Do you not see how ridiculous all this is ? Your coming here day after day only shows that you are not prepared to accept my word that there is no such thing as an 'individual'; that the 'individual' is nothing but an appearance; that an appearance cannot have any 'bondage' and, therefore, there is no question of any 'liberation' for an appearance.

Do you even now realize that if the very basis of your seeking is wrong, what can you achieve ? Indeed, is there anything to be achieved ? By whom ? By an appearance ?


From : The Last Days : Last Teachings (http://sri-nisargadatta-maharaj.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-last-days-last-teachings.html)

[greybeard]

It comes down to whatever works "nothing"
This me seems to have been drawn to spiritual teachers, practises, that have worked to some degree in this seeming life.
Yet im aware that this is not it.
A story.
"A Tibetan monk who had spent years in practices had to come into "town" to get a ticket.
He spent some time in the que to find after some time that he was in the wrong que
His years of serenity went out the window."
An enlightened being still has personality but not seen as personal.
Nasargadatta was known to be fiery.
Shouting one moment laughing the next --not in the least affected by any of it.

Chris

[Clear Light]

Oh, FWIW, some spiritual "discussion" based (lightly) upon Shakespeare's famous "to be, or not to be" utterance :

To "meditate" or not to "meditate", that is not the Point !

If I were to say : "You are not this body, not this mind"
Would you not reply : And yet it Appears does it not ?

If I were to say : "Just this, right here and now, as it is, is it ! Why look elsewhere ?"
Would you not reply : But that cannot be, I do not *feel* Enlightened !

Then I would say : "Look at your mind" as it is the Source of ALL your Confusion !
You may or may not already have had an "awakening" experience but unless one looks directly, repeatedly at what mind is,
Such "experiences" may just be the cause of further distraction eh ? ;)

40657

[O Donna]

An arrow has a point and may point to a point and is useful 'to a point'.

https://www.shareicon.net/data/128x128/2015/12/18/689147_arrows_512x512.png

I used to think making a valid point or hearing of a valid point was all that mattered and it does 'to a point'.

(So much can be substituted for 'point' like 'atom' 'thing' 'everything', the substitutions are literally infinite)

Even this post is but useful to a point. I could go on and on but you know, yadda yadda yadda.

[Clear Light]

Wow, that is a lot of arrows that convey movement.

In meditative poise, movement loses all meaning.

Granted, arrows are useful up to a point.

Ah, BUT "In meditative poise" what is aware of "movement" [1] as well as aware of the absence of "movement" ? Is it not the same Awareness ? ;)

[1] I'm including Bodily Sensations as well as the Appearance of Thoughts

[greybeard]

I get the point!!

[O Donna]

Is it not the same Awareness ? ;)


:thumbsup: To a point. (Couldn't resist the segue)

or is that segué? (Catalan language referring to sit, to be sitting) Hmmmm ;)


I get the point!!

https://forobits.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/4/04b71d7bb53f6a0a8d22b624333741e26377cfc8.gif

[greybeard]

Alan Watts ~ Surrendering To Death, A Natural Satori

Interested In this lecture, please follow the links below from Alan Watts https://www.alanwatts.com/ https://www.alanwatts.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT_QTX7peD4

[Clear Light]

Alan Watts ~ Surrendering To Death, A Natural Satori

Interested In this lecture, please follow the links below from Alan Watts https://www.alanwatts.com/ https://www.alanwatts.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT_QTX7peD4

Ah, for those that might quite naturally assume this video is purely about "Death", you'd only be about "half right" because strangely, or perversely, the latter half seems to be more about a certain "Orgasmic Vibration" eh ? :o

He speaks, in general terms, to those Socially Unacceptable Feelings or Emotions which by their very nature, make it seem as if "we" are not "in control" or that "everything is not all right" ... make of it what you will but AFAIK it isn't as MORBID as the title suggests ... ;)

[greybeard]

an advanced ancient civilization existed older than recorded time

I would suggest if you are short on time go to the last 30 minutes--after a lot of repetition he goes on to talk about the third eye and Kundalini"
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ09PMknSmg

[greybeard]

Alan Watts ~ There Are No Mistakes In This Universe



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5wJK9kcK_g

[greybeard]

How Can You Really Know What Is the Truth?

Satsang with Mooji In this Satsang excerpt, Moojibaba invites us to contemplate one of the central dilemmas of human existence: how can we really know what is true, how do we recognise and discern the truth? Mooji points out that truth ultimately can’t just be an intellectual concept, it must relate to a deeper intuitive knowing that has the power to set us free. “That which removes the fear of death and even the fear of life also — that is true. This is the truth that I pray we all discover, a truth without dogma, without prejudice, it is the truth that is representative of everybody. That is the truth of God — the truth that serves everyone. That reveals into the heart of everyone that they are loved and valued… that is true, that is truth.” 3 June 2019 Monte Sahaja, Portugal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfhCT756UE0

[Wind]

-ptJ8UCbDGQ

[Wind]

N7xz2GB89Oc

[O Donna]

https://cdn9.dissolve.com/p/D538_187_014/D538_187_014_0004_600.jpg

When one looks up to the sky at night they see a visual representation of infinity and yet, whether by sight or scientific instrumentation, that sight is quite limited. It is only with the mind and it’s ‘image-ation’ that it can see what is believed to be infinite. Infinite-sight would be like blindness to the human-mind.

Being pure enlighten state is like that. I have to imagine this (ie. using words) because the state itself is indescribable.

[greybeard]

The 5 Stages of Awakening, Signposts and Pitfalls on the Path of Consciousness



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb1R8KKdwPA

"Im not in agreement with stage five as there is duality in it.
The rest may be encouraging.
Who is it that needs encouragement? is the question.

Chris"

[O Donna]

How can a construct enlighten or be enlightened beyond its inherent limitation?

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OcjVzlFLPbw/WylFCHUDFAI/AAAAAAAASVo/rcjhg_bPku4U-cZs--WIt0zZNoqo7w7SwCLcBGAs/s1600/2-brain.jpg

And if it cannot, ‘what’ can? (rhetorically speaking)


"At first it’s difficult for the mind to accept that there’s something beyond itself, that there’s something of greater value and of greater capacity for discerning truth than itself.” -Dr. David Hawkins M.D., Ph.D.

[greybeard]

Alan Watts - Let Go Of Things That Don't Serve You


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuo7HTjTDPk

Get Alan's incredible books here! The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for an Age of Anxiety: http://amzn.to/2vEDrbU The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are: http://amzn.to/2uFs0MS The Way of Zen: http://amzn.to/2vlPybq Become What You Are: http://amzn.to/2viUcZq

[greybeard]

What is Vedanta? | Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AawWsJNi0gM

[greybeard]

That thou Art.
Taken from the above video
That Swami is so clever and funny with it--I love listening to him.
Chris

[Clear Light]

Oh, here are a couple of short videos (5 mins and 6 mins respectively), from the Advaita Vedanta POV concerning the REALITY of ENLIGHTENMENT, inasmuch as its PRACTICAL VALUE as over and above the metaphysics or various enlightened philosophies ... perhaps of interest eh ? ;)

Want to be ENLIGHTENED? | Swami Sarvapriyananda (Published on 17 Jun 2019)

py4gwW4zLZs

Can Karma Affect the Enlightened? | Swami Sarvapriyananda (Published on 19 Sep 2018)

xK-hok9E0s0

:sherlock:

[greybeard]

Swami Chinmayananda meeting Ramana Maharshi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-tWecVxm1o

[greybeard]

Advaita: Non-Dual Spirituality - from Ancient India to our Global Age

This documentary traces the evolution of Advaita - from the ancient rishis to teachers like Shankara and Ramana Maharshi - and examines whether or not modern teachings have maintained the power and clarity of the ancient traditions from which they evolved.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9pemPIBhLE

[greybeard]

Swami Sarvapriyananda and Deepak Chopra - " Discussion on Vedanta"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viPVFqxHrRM

[Wind]

XTTYYkw4yWc

[greybeard]

Practical Methods of Meditation by Swami Sarvapriyanandaji

Think this covers all questions regarding "I havent got it"
Referring to Ramana Maharshi Find out who/what am I.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfJTkCts-mw

[greybeard]

Leonard Jacobson ‘The Path Of Champions’ Interview by iain McNay
Leonard Jacobson ‘The Path Of Champions’ Interview by iain McNay Author of ‘Journey Into Now - Clear Guidance on the Path of Spiritual Awakening, ’ ‘Words From Silence,’ and ‘Bridging Heaven and Earth: A Return to the One.’ Leonard was originally working as a lawyer in Australia when he spontaneously resigned one day to follow a new path. Shortly afterwards he heard two words, ‘Creativity and Communication’ and this led him to become a copywriter. In Xmas 1981 he had the first of a dramatic spiritual opening on a retreat which completely changed the path of his life and his understanding of reality. More awakening experiences followed each with a period of integration in between. He now has a unique teaching which has two basic steps; the first step leading to presence, and the second to mastery. The second step is divided into 4 stages. Resistance of the Ego; Denial of who you have become; Repression of past emotions and Entanglement to the Other. In this interview Leonard talks about his path and his teaching.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTaxECChgjY

[greybeard]

I can't experience GOD ? | Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPhsmHRC9xM

[Wind]

TkSxi5rIMfg

[Guish]

Thoughts can be observed for what they are. Thoughts do not define or control you. They simply are. By observing thoughts in a detached way, we can dissociate ourselves from them and let go of stress and anxiety.

[O Donna]

Thoughts are only as important as we think they are, "but that's not important right now." ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK3gB7DpaM0

[Clear Light]

Adyashanti - The Dissolution of Identity (3 minutes)

q5qgbANGFsI


There are two essential lines of development in the quest for enlightenment -- the shift of self-identity followed by the dissolution of identity altogether. In this compelling satsang, Adyashanti focuses on the deeper aspects of his teaching as he explores the subtlety of the dissolution of self and the quiet, complete surrender through which all identity falls away.

Oh, at some point "along the path" (or so it seems), "you" simply cannot make efforts of any kind as a way to "further" one's "progress" ... actually it (your Spiritual Practice) becomes more of a way of _Abiding_ because any effort on behalf of the self / ego merely re-affirms that which has already been revealed as Illusory eh ?

Or perhaps, I'd say, as a means to explain this : The cessation of the projection of the separate self is all that is necessary, it's always the same "clear seeing" from the vantage point of "no self" because dualism has ceased and your non-dual so-called "True Self" really shines forth !!! :sun:

[Shadowman]

Morning chris my good man.
do you know how i change my profile name?

[greybeard]

Morning chris my good man.
do you know how i change my profile name?

Not a clue Tim but effortless for a Mod,
Much love Chris

[greybeard]

|| Realization || by Swami Sarvapriyananda

The Swami tells it with so much humour.
He talks of the various heavens but once our merit is used up we come back here.
These heavens are not formless--they are similar to this world though better--but like this world our time there comes to an end.
However there is a highest spiritual heaven that is formless.

Well worth listening to.
Chris




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRnjJCGJ7o

ABOUT VEDANTA
Vedanta is one of the world’s most ancient religious philosophies and one of its broadest. Based on the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of India, Vedanta affirms the oneness of existence, the divinity of the soul, and the harmony of religions.

ABOUT US
Vedanta Society of New York is affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India. In fact, this is the Order's first Center started by Swami Vivekananda, in 1894. It was a historic event, for the seed of the world-wide Ramakrishna Movement was sown here in New York over a century ago. Swami Sarvapriyananda is the present Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.

[greybeard]

Listening to Swami is giving me a deeper understanding.
Repetition repetition repetition is so important which is why I keep listening to the videos posted here.
Knowing about, whilst helpful, is not it
The ancient teaching in the Indian literature is advanced, clear and covers all that is needed--obstacles doubts included.
Thankfully the Swami simplifies and with great humour and clarity explains what is needed to realize Self
Nothing for nothing you have to do the work--study-learn and discard--not this not this.

Its like focusing a magnifying glass to burn a hole in paper--single minded--getting rid of all that muddy s the water.
Repetition --On an ashram that I stayed in for a couple of month there were signs in the eating are "The food is Brahman"--everything is Brahman "That thou art"
Reminding oneself "I am Brahman" repeatedly, as is all.
Everything including the body, the me, is an appearance within "Consciousness" which is Brahman.
As one keeps this in mind it becomes more real that one is Brahman.

Chris

[Clear Light]

lxcrrC3ws84

Oh, I suggest this short video may prove useful, not just for Advaita Vedanta proponents, but in general for any in search of a lasting Peace, as it highlights a Methodology (kind of like following a Map to your Destination) whereupon (with any luck), even in the midst of everyday worldly living, there is a Recognition of the Absolute appearing AS your current "life experience" eh ? :heart:

[Wind]

MO3hK5YabqA

[greybeard]

Advaita is VedantaAdvaita Is Vedanta:

This one of my all time favourites --Chris

Part I of the Trilogy aims to dissolve or deconstruct, (neti neti) all states, stations and experiences. States of meditation oftentimes become “stuck” points that both “spiritual practitioners”as well as "teachers" unknowingly and habitually nest in. Zen Saying:, (You never want to nest in any state”). The second half on this YouTube focuses and delineates the vibrations "Prior to Consciousness" which both forms and solidifies the illusion of being, through what in Sanskrit is called Samskaras. If you wish to download the Meditation CD, and/or the Corresponding Booklet and Notes from this film to use as a reference or guide, visit www.miragelibrary.com.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZ4zjeHZAg&list=PLo-FUF279Az04BGhrWP4cqjHbUg8zwqfL&index=6

[Clear Light]

Oh, I'm posting the following quote here in the "Spiritual Forums" as it may perhaps be of interest to some that are Contemplating what it is that seemingly requires some kind of "Spiritual Integration" in their lives eh ? :yo:

From : Anam Thubten's book "No Self, No Problem / Awakening to Our True Nature"


CHAPTER ONE: Pure Consciousness / Our True Identity

WE IDENTIFY with our body made out of flesh, bones, and other components and therefore we believe that we are material, substantial, and concrete. This understanding has become so embedded in our belief system that we rarely question it. The results of that are the inevitable conditions of old age, sickness, and death. We acquire these conditions simply out of believing that we are this physical body. We always pay a high price when we believe in false ideas. This perception is not just held individually; it is held dearly by the collective mind of society and has been for many generations. That is why it is so strongly entrenched in our psyche. Our normal, everyday perception of each other is governed by this false identity and then strengthened and enforced by the language we use.

At a very early age we are indoctrinated into this notion of self as the body. For example when we see a small child we say, “He is beautiful. I love his hair. She has the cutest eyes.” Through thoughts and comments such as these we are planting the seeds of this mistaken identity. Of course there is nothing wrong with giving compliments. It is much better than criticism. However, it is still a form of misconception. The truth is that, independent of any characteristics, a child is inherently beautiful the moment she is born. So we are all beautiful.

We are living in an age when people are disconnected from their true identity and this false perception is validated from every angle. Everyone is craving a perfect body and seeking it in others. For example, when you go to the grocery store you see magazines displaying pictures of men and women in a perfect and idealized youthful form. It is very difficult to resist these messages. They come from everywhere, all aspects of society, and they validate this sense of mistaken identity. They validate the sense that this body is who we really are. Given the tendency to establish a perfect idealized standard, many people suffer from pride, narcissism, arrogance, shame, guilt, and self-hatred because of their relationship with their body and their ability or inability to reflect this perfect standard.

Every morning when we wake up and look into the mirror there is a voice in our mind that is constantly judging us and others according to this standard. Have you ever noticed that? Our mind is always judging: “Oh, another wrinkle. She is too fat. He is strange looking. She is beautiful. He is handsome.” These judgments not only create a stumbling block on our spiritual path, they also create clouds of negativity in our consciousness and keep us firmly chained in the prison of duality.

But there is no need to hold on to this. There is the possibility of transcending this identification with our body in each and every moment. It is only when we drop all of these judgments that we will recognize that everyone is divine in their uniqueness. Egoic mind is always comparing self with others because it believes itself to be a separate entity and it uses the body as the dividing line between self and others.

We are nonmaterial. We are insubstantial. We are not like a table that eventually breaks down. The very essence of who we are goes beyond the conditions of decay and impermanence. Yes, our body is impermanent but our true nature is not impermanent. Our true nature is deathless and divine, transcending all imperfections. Because of this we are all equal, we are all one. Nobody is better or worse than anybody else. When someone manifests their true nature, they live out of love, kindness, and joy. They inflict less pain on others. When we meditate, sooner or later we discover that this is not just abstract theory. This corresponds to the truth, to reality.

What is our true nature if it is not this body? There are many words we can use to describe what our true nature is. The simplest word in Buddhism for that is Buddha Nature. The definition of Buddha Nature is that we are already enlightened. We are perfect as we are. When we realize this, we are perfect. When we do not realize this, we are also perfect. Our true essence goes beyond birth and death. It can never get sick. It can never get old. It is beyond all conditions. It is like the sky. This is not a theory. This is the truth that can be realized only in the realm of enlightened consciousness. This consciousness is surprisingly accessible to each of us.

When that awakening happens, there is no longer any desire to become someone other than who we are. Every previous idea of who we are vanishes and along with it the pain, guilt, and pride associated with our body. In Buddhism this is called no self. This is the only true awakening. Everything else is a spiritual bypass. This awakening is what we should be aiming for from the very beginning of being on the path. It will rescue us from falling into unnecessary spiritual traps.

When we are openhearted and ready to drop our previous perceptions of self, then spiritual awakening can happen at any moment. There is a beautiful analogy. Imagine a dark cave that hasn’t been illuminated for a million years. Then one day someone brings a candle into the cave. Instantaneously the darkness of a million years vanishes. Like that, when your true nature is realized there is no longer this “I” searching for anything else. The awakening has nothing to do with our background. It has nothing to do with whether we have been meditating for a long time or not. It has nothing to do with meeting impressive teachers or gurus. It is simply dependent on whether or not we are open to it.

This opening, this receptivity, is basically related to our ability to resist arming the ego with concepts and ideas. A true spiritual path transcends all concepts and belief systems. It is not about reinforcing the mind’s illusion of self as an identity. It is not about being a Buddhist, a saint, or a better person. It is really about deconstructing all of our illusions without any mercy.

It is very important to look into our mind to see what we are looking for, what we are seeking. This is especially relevant when we are going to receive spiritual teachings. When a spiritual teacher impresses us, we might discover that our desire is completely antagonistic to authentic awakening. Perhaps our mind is looking for comfort, for validation, for a spiritual high, or a new set of beliefs. Sometimes our ego convinces us that we are realizing this sense of no fixed self but at the same time we are holding on to another concept like trying to be sacred or spiritual. Holding on to concepts such as “sacred” or “spiritual” while we are working toward transcending self-attachment is very subtle.

Perhaps this sounds like a lot of work, like an arduous insurmountable task. It isn’t when we find the secret ingredient. That is to know that this “I” is a fictitious entity that is always ready to wither away the moment we stop sustaining it. We don’t have to go to a holy place to experience this. All we have to do is simply sit and pay attention to our breath, allowing ourselves to let go of all of our fantasies and mental images. Then we can experience connecting to our inner world.

As we begin to rest and pay attention, we begin to see everything clearly. We see that the self has no basis or solidity. It is a complete mental fabrication. We also realize that everything we believe to be true about our life is nothing but stories, fabricated around false identifications. “I am an American. I am thirty years old. I am a teacher, a taxi driver, a lawyer . . . whatever.” All of these ideas or identities are stories that have never really happened in the realm of our true nature. Watching the dissolution of these individual stories is not painful. It is not painful to see everything dissolving in front of us. It is not like watching our house burn down. That is very painful because we don’t want to lose everything. Spiritual dissolution is not like that because what is being destroyed is nothing but this sense of false identities. They were never real in the first place.

Try this. Pay attention to your breath in silence. Look at your mind. Immediately we see that thoughts are popping up. Don’t react to them. Just keep watching your mind. Notice that there is a gap between each thought. Notice that there is a space between the place where the last thought came to an end and the next one hasn’t arrived yet. In this space there is no “I” or “me.” That’s it.

It might be hard to believe how simple it is to realize the truth. As a matter of fact the Tibetan lama Ju Mipham said that the only reason we don’t realize the truth is because it is too simple. If we look around carefully there are hundreds, even thousands, of indications proving the notion that our concept of self is unreal. Look at the face of a newborn child or a flower blossoming beautifully in a garden. They are all pointing toward this mystical realization. We might want to apply this simple inquiry whenever problems arise. If we feel angry or disappointed, simply ask, “Who is the one being angry or disappointed?” In such inquiry, inner serenity can effortlessly manifest.

There are stories about people who have been struggling with life’s problems for a very long time without resolution. Once they sat down in meditation and asked, “Who is struggling?” they realized that from the beginning there was never really any problem. In a true sense this is the only solution that helps us. Everything else is just a Band-Aid that gives us a false sense of liberation for a short while. How many times have we tried these temporary fixes and solutions? Are we exhausted yet? If everybody on the planet, including the politicians, businessmen, and religious leaders, started working toward this realization, then the world would immediately be a peaceful place. People would be much more generous and kinder toward each other.

When all the layers of false identity have been stripped off, there is no longer any version of that old self. What is left behind is pure consciousness. That is our original being. That is our true identity. Our true nature is indestructible. No matter whether we are sick or healthy, poor or wealthy, it always remains divine and perfect as it is. When we realize our true nature, our life is transformed in a way we could not have imagined before. We realize the very meaning of our life and it puts an end to all searching right there.

Many people are looking for the perfect life in the distant future while they’re busy wasting each moment of their precious life fabricating mental and psychological problems. We should remember that each moment is a threshold to perfect awakening. Awakening to our true nature is the key to unlocking the door of the paradise that lies within each of us. Paradise is not some kind of enchanted land filled with flowers and music. It is not some kind of spiritual Disneyland. Paradise is our primordial pure consciousness, which is free of all limitations but embodies the infinity of the divine. I remember seeing a bumper sticker that said, “I believe in life before death.” To me this means that we don’t have to imagine a future paradise. Paradise can happen right here, right now, while we’re in this human incarnation. The choice is ours.

Yes, it's from a Buddhist / Dzogchen POV but I'd suggest that IF "you" really want to put an end to "suffering" once and for all then why not, at least give it a read through eh ? :sherlock:

[greybeard]

Stephen Wolinsky - Nisargadatta's home

Nisargadatta Maharaj (17 April 1897 – 8 September 1981), born Maruti Shivrampant Kambli, was an Indian Guru of nondualism, belonging to the Inchagiri Sampradaya, a lineage of teachers from the Navnath Sampradaya and Lingayat Shaivism.

The publication in 1973 of I Am That, an English translation of his talks in Marathi by Maurice Frydman, brought him worldwide recognition and followers, especially from North America and Europe.

Stephen H. Wolinsky, PhD. was born in New York City.
He is a direct disciple of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and lived in India for almost six years.
He is a founder of Quantum Psychology, (integrating Western Psychology, Advaita-Vedanta’s Non-duality, Quantum Physics, Neuro-Science, and Buddhism).
In 2002, he founded Post-deconstruction, a scientific approach beyond Postmodernism.
He is the author of fourteen books, including an audio tape series Waking From The Trance: A Practical Course on Developing Mulidimensional Awareness (produced by Sounds True) and a DVD series, I Am That I Am (produced by Neti Neti films). He presently resides in Aptos, California.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNfe7qJ_wNw&t=20s

[Heart-2-Heart]

Buddah was asked: What have you gained from meditation ?

He answered :Nothing

"However" Buddah said. Let me tell you what I have lost.

Anger, anxiety, depression, insecurity, Fear of Old Age, and Death.

H2h

[greybeard]

Buddah was asked: What have you gained from meditation ?

He answered :Nothing

"However" Buddah said. Let me tell you what I have lost.

Anger, anxiety, depression, insecurity, Fear of Old Age, and Death.

H2h

Good to see you posting
Much love Chris

[greybeard]

I would strongly recommend reading the book on the link if you want to change this world of appearances for the better.
I had to read it several times before I could accept that this is possible.
In God I trust
Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?107614-The-Real-Life-Adventures-of-Shadowman&p=1300538&viewfull=1#post1300538

[Wind]

There is no conflict in you, the Self.
If there is conflict,
it is between thought and thought.
As long as the sense of 'I' and 'other' is believed,
conflict is inevitable.
Through self-inquiry confirm
again and again: I am the Self,
the complete and indivisible whole.

~ Mooji

[O Donna]

There seems to be two (you know, the duality dance) of enlightenment

1) enlightenment
2) enlightenment, but not really.

Restated

1) enlightenment
2) what enlightenment?

or

1) enlightenment
2) relative enlightenment


"but not really" is what trips up the rational part of the brain and counts it as '1 of 2 (or more)'

I should have started this post with "Sharing 'thoughts' that past by my window".

That last part past by my window as well. Talk about Meta-Sharing! :grin:

[Gracy]

Hi Chris, i always hear a lot o people talky talkin about being "awakened", and now "woke", but i dont seem to notice a bunch of bodhisattvas running around. Strange that... do you think the tenets of buddhism are being cheapened and commercialized?

[greybeard]

Hi Chris, i always hear a lot o people talky talkin about being "awakened", and now "woke", but i dont seem to notice a bunch of bodhisattvas running around. Strange that... do you think the tenets of buddhism are being cheapened and commercialized?

Good question Gracy May
Yes maybe changed to user friendly might be kinder laughing.
The majority of videos on this thread, I would say, are genuine Non-duality.
I do believe there is an awakening happening but there are degrees of this.
Not that many fully enlightened yet.
Chris

[Peter UK]

Hi Chris, i always hear a lot o people talky talkin about being "awakened", and now "woke", but i dont seem to notice a bunch of bodhisattvas running around. Strange that... do you think the tenets of buddhism are being cheapened and commercialized?

Hi Gracy May,

Cheapened and commercialised is one way of talking about it, however there is a more extreme side.

As Tibetan Buddhism was witnessing it's slow demise after the chinese invasion of 1950, it has had to face movement outwards, first to India and then to the west to try and preserve the teachings and this has exposed many rinpochets and 'western would be rinpochets' to extreme scrutiny of their methods with devastating results. Both financial and sexual scandals have occurred in many instances as Gurus and teachers abused their students and corrupted the teachings. They could hardly have got away with it anywhere near to that degree in their homeland but experienced a new kind of freedom with all the temptations the west has to offer. A dilution of the teachings it seems was inevitable.

It seems that in one sense this was an acid test for tibetan buddhism as to what extent it had been culturally manufactured and consequently conditioned as lamaism as distinct from buddhism.

[greybeard]

Peter UK
Thanks for your post which I agree with.
My first look into spirituality was with Yogananda's book "Autobiography of a Yogi"
That led on to Ramana--at that time there was no u tube and litte non-duality to be foun

However whilst im not a Buddhist I appreciate the little I know of his teaching.

Chris

[Peter UK]

Peter UK
Thanks for your post which I agree with.
My first look into spirituality was with Yogananda's book "Autobiography of a Yogi"
That led on to Ramana--at that time there was no u tube and litte non-duality to be foun

However whilst im not a Buddhist I appreciate the little I know of his teaching.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes, Yogananda's book is something of a classic.

No youtube meant a completely different approach, often entailing going to India.

:)

I'm not a buddhist either but appreciate many aspects of it.

[greybeard]

Peter UK
Thanks for your post which I agree with.
My first look into spirituality was with Yogananda's book "Autobiography of a Yogi"
That led on to Ramana--at that time there was no u tube and litte non-duality to be foun

However whilst im not a Buddhist I appreciate the little I know of his teaching.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes, Yoganandas book is something of a classic.

No youtube meant a completely different approach, often entailing going to India.

:)

I'm not a buddhist either but appreciate many aspects of it.

Ive been fortunate to go to India three times.
The apprenticeship somewhat demanding but I suppose getting information in the energy of satsang particularly in India was well forth the sacrifices involve in getting there.
Yet knowing about it is good but not it
All posts welcome.

Chris

[Gracy]

Let me try putting it this way. Let's take one of our favrites "awake and aware" for instance. What exactly does that mean? Is is just a stark difference between either you're asleep and aware of zip zero zilch, or you're awake and aware to every lil nuance of existence, or, are there varying degrees of "woke" in between?

I know the old zen koans always seem to lead toward one understanding it all in some sudden flash of enlightenment but, is that really practical?

Thats basically what i see in every day life, someone has some new political, or spiritual revelation, and suddenly they consider themselves "awakened". To me the road road traveled ends right there when one foolishly assume such a thing.

By the way greybeard thank you for this thread!

[Peter UK]

Let me try putting it this way. Let's take one of our favrites "awake and aware" for instance. What exactly does that mean? Is is just a stark difference between either you're asleep and aware of zip zero zilch, or you're awake and aware to every lil nuance of existence, or, are there varying degrees of "woke" in between?


I would tend towards the view of varying degrees and see enlightenment as an ever expanding vista, no matter how enlightened one is.

There are some who owing to the nature of their enlightenment would not necessarily have any future purpose taking on another physical body however I do wonder what the vista is or would appear like, as i'm sure it must.

Think of a russian doll.

:)

[greybeard]

Let me try putting it this way. Let's take one of our favrites "awake and aware" for instance. What exactly does that mean? Is is just a stark difference between either you're asleep and aware of zip zero zilch, or you're awake and aware to every lil nuance of existence, or, are there varying degrees of "woke" in between?

I know the old zen koans always seem to lead toward one understanding it all in some sudden flash of enlightenment but, is that really practical?

Thats basically what i see in every day life, someone has some new political, or spiritual revelation, and suddenly they consider themselves "awakened". To me the road road traveled ends right there when one foolishly assume such a thing.

By the way greybeard thank you for this thread!

Both instant and leading towards the enlightenment happen as far as can see.
Seemingly its possible to have the enlightenment"experience" but its temporary.

I think enlightenment can be complete but then matures.
I followed the teaching of the late Dr avid Hawkins for years--he maintained that there ar level of enlightenment the highest possible in this world, being Christ or the Buddha.
The human body can only stand so much spiritual energy.
So Hawkins and Tolle said that to higher Ones Enlightenment here would seem like kindergarten.
However a very worthwhile undertaking as its the only way to escape the wheel of reincarnation.

Thanks for your appreciation of the thread.
Honestly its not down to me.
Chris

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I regularly point to this thread.
Love Chris
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...

¤=[Post Update]=¤


|| Realization || by Swami Sarvapriyananda

The Swami tells it with so much humour.
He talks of the various heavens but once our merit is used up we come back here.
These heavens are not formless--they are similar to this world though better--but like this world our time there comes to an end.
However there is a highest spiritual heaven that is formless.

Well worth listening to.
Chris




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRnjJCGJ7o

ABOUT VEDANTA
Vedanta is one of the world’s most ancient religious philosophies and one of its broadest. Based on the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of India, Vedanta affirms the oneness of existence, the divinity of the soul, and the harmony of religions.

ABOUT US
Vedanta Society of New York is affiliated with the Ramakrishna Order of India. In fact, this is the Order's first Center started by Swami Vivekananda, in 1894. It was a historic event, for the seed of the world-wide Ramakrishna Movement was sown here in New York over a century ago. Swami Sarvapriyananda is the present Resident Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York.

This one answers a lot.
Chris

[Peter UK]

Take three or four people who you consider to be enlightened, either in the very recent past or presently, where their teaching styles may be witnessed and compared. What accounts for their difference? This may be more easily understood and reconciled if they are from different teachings but how is that difference accounted for when they teach from virtually the same teaching?

[greybeard]

Take three or four people who you consider to be enlightened, either in the very recent past or presently, where their teaching styles may be witnessed and compared. What accounts for their difference? This may be more easily understood and reconciled if they are from different teachings but how is that difference accounted for when they teach from virtually the same teaching?

That is a very difficult question--who am I to say!!!
I would rather point to those teachings that have been the most help.
Ramana Maharshi
Eckhart Tolle
Dr David Hawkins
Ramesh Balsakar
Nasargadatta Maharagh
Mooji
Stephen Wolinsky
The Swami in the recent post.

Thats in the order of finding--more than you asked for but I have been at this forever.

They all teach non-duality---
Just different "personalities" ways of delivering the same message.
Which is your "That"
"That thou art"
Only God/Brahman exists.
They can all be found on this thread some where.

Hope that helps Peter UK

Chris

Oh and the late Dr Goels--the Kundalini Guru who was tremendous help on his ashram


Apart from that Shadowman who has been of personal help--the link above.

[Peter UK]

Take three or four people who you consider to be enlightened, either in the very recent past or presently, where their teaching styles may be witnessed and compared. What accounts for their difference? This may be more easily understood and reconciled if they are from different teachings but how is that difference accounted for when they teach from virtually the same teaching?

That is a very difficult question--who am I to say!!!
I would rather point to those teachings that have been the most help.
Ramana Maharshi
Eckhart Tolle
Dr David Hawkins
Ramesh Balsakar
Nasargadatta Maharagh
Mooji
Stephen Wolinsky
The Swami in the recent post.

Thats in the order of finding--more than you asked for but I have been at this forever.

They all teach non-duality---
Just different "personalities" ways of delivering the same message.
Which is your "That"
"That thou art"
Only God/Brahman exists.
They can all be found on this thread some where.

Hope that helps Peter UK

Chris

Oh and the late Dr Goels--the Kundalini Guru who was tremendous help on his ashram


Apart from that Shadowman who has been of personal help--the link above.


Ok, that's an interesting response as it leads the question on.

Here's the conundrum;

Just what is a 'personality'?

I think we both agree were not talking about an ego here, so what is it that's being referenced when we say personality?

You have given good examples of individuals that are worthy of being considered to be enlightened in the context that we would normally consider that; Ramana Maharishi, Nisargadatta, Mooji and yet not one of these teach in the same way albeit they teach from the same source. I find that interesting when considering what enlightenment is because at that level it's about the oneness but it manifests differently.

Is the personality filtering the differences? What are the mechanics of that?

Is it the result of being in a physical body with different genetic qualities?

These questions are mainly rhetorical and not of utmost importance however they imply for me what I feel is the same mechanics at source, namely that there will exist a similar mutability or flexibility in how it will reflect itself as it senses its relationship to the greater 'wholes' out there of which it is simultaneously a part and totally inclusive of.

I think that we probably can only understand and experience source from a relative position at any given point in time and space and even from outside of space-time. The experience will be different of course depending on where we find ourselves. Outside of space-time the notion of relative would take on a quite different meaning. None of this is related to scientific conjecture only my own philosophical musings.

:)

[greybeard]

Yes Peter UK
I think you have answered yourself.
The only thing I can add is --it depends to whom the teacher is speaking to.

For example I would say that Eckhart Tolle is user friendly he meets people who are early on in their spiritual development--he helps them with the challenges of life and thats good.
Now and then he drops in deep truth with statements like " There never was anyone there to do anything to you?
Ramana would always say "Find out who is asking that question"
Ramesh--"You are not the doer"
Nasargadatta not for the faint hearted.
Mooji full of love and advocates just be.
The swami explains in great depth the process of revealing the Truth though
Basically the process of elimination Neity Neity
I tend to go to the Indian teachers because they are grounded in ancient Sanskrit teaching.

So "God" leads you to the teacher best suited to your needs--one that you will resonate with

Chris

[Gracy]

Take three or four people who you consider to be enlightened, either in the very recent past or presently, where their teaching styles may be witnessed and compared. What accounts for their difference? This may be more easily understood and reconciled if they are from different teachings but how is that difference accounted for when they teach from virtually the same teaching?
I'vecome across the rare person here and there who strike me as well on their way on the path, but, never a person I would consider enlightened. To your question though, I might chalk many said diferences up to more than one way to make a dog bark.

Hey Chris, its probably in here somewhere, what would you say, or point to, as the definition of enlightened?

[greybeard]

Take three or four people who you consider to be enlightened, either in the very recent past or presently, where their teaching styles may be witnessed and compared. What accounts for their difference? This may be more easily understood and reconciled if they are from different teachings but how is that difference accounted for when they teach from virtually the same teaching?
I'vecome across the rare person here and there who strike me as well on their way on the path, but, never a person I would consider enlightened. To your question though, I might chalk many said diferences up to more than one way to make a dog bark.

Hey Chris, its probably in here somewhere, what would you say, or point to, as the definition of enlightened?

Its an egoless"state" Gracy May but the ones who are say its beyond any concept or description--if you think you have defined it--Nasargaatta was famous for asking people to tell him about their beliefs--no matter what they said he would say "Thats not it"
How can you describe "Form--formless--both and yet neither.

Easier to define ego.
Dr Hawkins define it as belief in the story of me.
He also said Sainthood and enlightenment are two different paths
Ramesh said its a separation device.

Seperation--the seperate person is the illusion.
Enlightenment is the removal of this ignorance.

There is no one left to claim enlightenment.
Neither are there separate objects--all of the same energy

The wave comes back into the ocean it always was water.
Not easy to give a clear answer

Shadowman gives one of the clearest definitions in his first post on Avalon--in the spiritual section--think I posted the link recently.

Chris

[Gracy]

Hey Chris, its probably in here somewhere, what would you say, or point to, as the definition of enlightened?


Its an egoless"state" Gracy May but the ones who are say its beyond any concept or description--if you think you have defined it--Nasargaatta was famous for asking people to tell him about their beliefs--no matter what they said he would say "Thats not it"
How can you describe "Form--formless--both and yet neither.

Yes, that would be hard to describe.

I love Buddhism, but at the same time certain aspects of it bother me a bit. Like when i see all the time people are desperate to hop off the reincarnation wheel, thus imo assuring many happy returns through the bardos. So also, it bothers me some to see our existance here described as ignorance. Like the following.


Seperation--the seperate person is the illusion.
Enlightenment is the removal of this ignorance.

I reckon what bothers me, is, is this ignorance a bad thing? Put maybe a better way, whats the point of us being here in this ignorant state in the first place? Is there a method to this madness in your humble opinion dear sir?

[Clear Light]

3vv0363gLr8

[greybeard]

Hey Chris, its probably in here somewhere, what would you say, or point to, as the definition of enlightened?


Its an egoless"state" Gracy May but the ones who are say its beyond any concept or description--if you think you have defined it--Nasargaatta was famous for asking people to tell him about their beliefs--no matter what they said he would say "Thats not it"
How can you describe "Form--formless--both and yet neither.

Yes, that would be hard to describe.

I love Buddhism, but at the same time certain aspects of it bother me a bit. Like when i see all the time people are desperate to hop off the reincarnation wheel, thus imo assuring many happy returns through the bardos. So also, it bothers me some to see our existance here described as ignorance. Like the following.


Seperation--the seperate person is the illusion.
Enlightenment is the removal of this ignorance.

I reckon what bothers me, is, is this ignorance a bad thing? Put maybe a better way, whats the point of us being here in this ignorant state in the first place? Is there a method to this madness in your humble opinion dear sir?

Ignorance is just lack of knowledge
Self Realization another term for enlightenment/
This happens when the truth is realize--you are not the body not the mind --then what are you?
So the eternal soul is here in disguise.
Buddha saw enlightenment as freedom from misery.
Life goes on after the last visit here.
This is just the play of consciousness we are all actors on the stage.
Any explanation is flawed not it.
Clear Light has a better grasp of it than I
Chris
Oh and I forgot to ad Alan Watts to the list.

[Gracy]

Hi Chris :sun:

Sorry if it seems like i'm bugging you about these things, thats not my intent. i've studied buddhism, and listened to people like Alan Watts for many years but, there's not a whole lot of folk around to talk and philosophise about these things, so here i am. Round these parts we call it shooting the s**t, and some times something may actually come of it.

Yes, so self realization is another term for enlightenment, and as you say when we realize we are not the body and not the mind then what are we, is a dern good question! If the eternal soul is here in disguise, what do you think would be the purpose of that? To purposely dip itself into misery.

So Buddha saw enlightenment as freedom from misery. Yes, that sounds good. But again, do you think we were already an all knowing oversoul sort of collective being, all happy and all knowing until one "day" we up and decided we were bored and ready for a challenge, or a game, like Alan Watts may laughingly quip?

Like here, lets play a game, let's play hide n seek, lets lose ourselves to the 4 wind, and see how long it takes to get back home. Last one home's a rotten egg LOL!

[greybeard]

Gracy May
I love your input there is not enough of it on this thread.
Why are we here --damned if I know.
I was a breech birth --maybe I change my mind at the last moment --smiling
If we take it that there are different levels of energy called consciousness it becomes easier to understand.
Dr DavidHawkins compare it to a thermometer--extreme heat all the may down to lack of heat.
Unconditional Divine Love all the way down to the absence of love.
His book "Power vs Force" a good read.
So until enlightenment occurs we are in the play--even in the heavens we are in the play till enlightenment happens--anything not permanent is not it--this is why those who have NDE come back--still work in progress and to encourage us--remove fear.
So enlightenment is graduation out of this particular school--the one of hard knocks.
We continue on elsewhere always of the same energy as the Creator but a lesser voltage so to speak.
God became all without diminishing itself--one way of looking at it.
Why--I dont know

Its beyond understanding

The different levels of awareness have different truths which are relative to where one is.
A Saints awareness of right and wrong quite different from a criminal who can justify what he does.
The Enlightened do not judge but dont condone either.

Rambling but hope it helps
Chris

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Yes, so self realization is another term for enlightenment, and as you say when we realize we are not the body and not the mind then what are we, is a dern good question! If the eternal soul is here in disguise, what do you think would be the purpose of that? To purposely dip itself into misery.

Not to answer for Chris at all, just chipping in for what it's worth.

The body is merely the physical vehicle that clads our consciousness. The consciousness (or personality) is the vehicle that clads our soul. The soul is the vehicle that clads, I suppose, God. We are none of these things individually, but everything simultaneously.

The purpose here on Earth is to experience separation and polarity/free will. (Misery is less a condition of that polarity and more a collective choice.) Not all planetary 'schools of learning' are as dense and dark as this. Not all entities have this Polarity. On Earth at least it's quite unique to us as Human Beings. A pig or a chicken or an antelope doesn't have free will. They do not and cannot express malice, or altruism, or love/hate. That's for us alone to understand and experience, to ultimately work through and transcend.



do you think we were already an all knowing oversoul sort of collective being, all happy and all knowing until one "day" we up and decided we were bored and ready for a challenge, or a game, like Alan Watts may laughingly quip?

Personally no, not entirely. We are not Source - the ultimate Oneness and perfection, we merely came from Source as individualised particles of energy. As souls. Then again, being of the Source we are Source, so we were already perfect. I suppose the distinction here is that, in Humanity's very long history, we became enamoured with our free will, and with physicality and the infinite pleasures and distractions it provides, and lost something of that vital connection to the ALL. We forgot ourselves and humanity fell. Hence the confusion and misery and this illusion of separation we all experience.

Enlightenment is just the path back to our true selves. There are many obstacles and a lot of debris on the way back up that path, which we ourselves put there on our way down. That's Karma. We have to clear the way first.

But even enlightenment isn't the end. Enlightenment is just 'knowledge', and knowledge is energy. Energy cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed. Therefore in my opinion, the human word 'enlightenment', and what it means is just a circle. It does not really begin, and it does not really end.

[greybeard]

Thank you for your post input Star Mariner--much appreciated.
Chris

[greybeard]

Id like to say that Im not an expert on the subject --heaven forbid.
Every post is equal as is every poster.
How else would anyone learn?
So keep the questions and answers coming.

Chris

[Peter UK]

Yes, so self realization is another term for enlightenment, and as you say when we realize we are not the body and not the mind then what are we, is a dern good question! If the eternal soul is here in disguise, what do you think would be the purpose of that? To purposely dip itself into misery.

Not to answer for Chris at all, just chipping in for what it's worth.


The purpose here on Earth is to experience separation and polarity/free will. (Misery is less a condition of that polarity and more a collective choice.) Not all planetary 'schools of learning' are as dense and dark as this. Not all entities have this Polarity. On Earth at least it's quite unique to us as Human Beings.

An excellent interpretation.

I agree with the whole thing about needing to experience apparent separation as part of the illusion, it's the experience of Source experiencing itself as an apparent object, focussed one might say in a highly concentrated manner in order to know itself from that angle.


Posted by Star Mariner

do you think we were already an all knowing oversoul sort of collective being, all happy and all knowing until one "day" we up and decided we were bored and ready for a challenge, or a game, like Alan Watts may laughingly quip?

Personally no, not entirely. We are not Source - the ultimate Oneness and perfection, we merely came from Source as individualised particles of energy. As souls. Then again, being of the Source we are Source, so we were already perfect.

But even enlightenment isn't the end. Enlightenment is just 'knowledge', and knowledge is energy. Energy cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed. Therefore in my opinion, the human word 'enlightenment', and what it means is just a circle. It does not really begin, and it does not really end.

Agreed again, the only distinction I would make here is that I would consider enlightenment to be knowledge at one end of the spectrum and awareness at the other.

A semantical difference perhaps.

:)

[Gracy]

Id like to say that Im not an expert on the subject --heaven forbid.
Every post is equal as is every poster.
How else would anyone learn?
So keep the questions and answers coming.

Chris
Chris, if you considered yourself an expert on these matters, i probably wouldn't be here striking up a talky talk with you.more later when i have time. Good stuff.

[Peter UK]

Hi Chris :sun:

Sorry if it seems like i'm bugging you about these things, thats not my intent. i've studied buddhism, and listened to people like Alan Watts for many years but, there's not a whole lot of folk around to talk and philosophise about these things, so here i am. Round these parts we call it shooting the s**t, and some times something may actually come of it.


That's a great expression Gracy May.

Pray tell me more about it.

:)

[greybeard]

Seen we are having fun
A definition of exspurt I really like
A has been drip under pressure.

Chris

[Wind]

Whatever it is that is still commenting about things,
forget that. Become completely empty and silent
and remain as silent emptiness itself.

~ Mooji

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_sQ8s4WkAE-84X.jpg:large

[Gracy]

We are not Source - the ultimate Oneness and perfection, we merely came from Source as individualised particles of energy. As souls. Then again, being of the Source we are Source, so we were already perfect. I suppose the distinction here is that, in Humanity's very long history, we became enamoured with our free will, and with physicality and the infinite pleasures and distractions it provides, and lost something of that vital connection to the ALL. We forgot ourselves and humanity fell. Hence the confusion and misery and this illusion of separation we all experience.

It seems to me, that Source would have known from the very get go that "man" would eventually succumb to this and fall so to speak. At least it didnt get pissed like Jehova.

Your description even reminds me a bit of the realm of the gods.



But even enlightenment isn't the end. Enlightenment is just 'knowledge', and knowledge is energy. Energy cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed. Therefore in my opinion, the human word 'enlightenment', and what it means is just a circle. It does not really begin, and it does not really end.

You don't think there may be an end game to this, at least to this chapter, like the prodigal son returning home all grown up and bursting with hard won wisdom having finally passed the test?

[O Donna]

Whatever it is that is still commenting about things,
forget that. Become completely empty and silent
and remain as silent emptiness itself.

~ Mooji



It's ironical regarding the Mooji comment about "Whatever is still commenting..." to convey the message itself. Such is the life of manifestation.
It's like getting the cake and having to eat it too bringing both pleasure and pain, light and dark.

[greybeard]

"That which brings you pleasure brings you pain"
such is duality.

[O Donna]

Pleasure and pain, before differentiation/ interpretation, are one.

Described in mythology/ mysticism as the/ a forbidden fruit.

https://adarshsharma0.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/background-1881307_20180707143927425_20180810172735327_20180902154340971.jpg

[Clear Light]

Whatever it is that is still commenting about things,
forget that. Become completely empty and silent
and remain as silent emptiness itself.

~ Mooji

Oh, now in presuming that this Spiritual Prescription of his is meant as a way / method for the Mind-Heart of a Spiritual Seeker to find Emancipation / Liberation / Release (or even perhaps so-called Enlightenment), I'm going to Juxtapose it with the following from Nisargadatta (here (http://sri-nisargadatta-maharaj.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-last-days-last-teachings.html)) in the hopes that it may shed a little light (so-to-say) on the matter at hand :


What I would understand by 'silence' is total absence of word and thought. Have you ever considered from where the word comes? Before a word becomes vocal, it has to be a thought; a movement in consciousness, and therefore, the source of the word as well as the thought is consciousness. Once you understand this, you will also understand that perfect silence can only be in the absence of thought— only when thought ceases, and conceptualization and objectivization are also suspended. When conceptualization ceases, identity, which is the basis of conceptualization, cannot remain, and in the absence of identity there is no bondage.

:heart:

[O Donna]

You know what jumped out of the post, to me, was the use of the word "juxtapose" and its high existential value found in spades on the internet if one is willing to look followed by a well-developed well-stocked library.

The biggest surprise on the journey has been how helpful meditating on the 'wisdom' obtained from what is like a spiritual diamond reminiscent of a diamond of infinite facet likeness.

The difference being between a limited view or not limited view of the 'elephant' we believe we know.

If we do not have a perfect view of anything how can we say with complete confidence that we KNOW what that something IS in which we refer to? Paradigm changing stuff if the whole thing is allowed to be played out.

Has anyone seen the experiment where the person is wearing 3D glasses in which they are viewing their-self as they are standing behind their-self in real-time. A special camera from behind them is capturing from behind the subject.

I bet that is a wild ride, comparative to the relative quality of ones' awareness is at the time.

If someone knows of the, I think YouTube video, it's well worth the watch. Think someone post it on an Avalon thread awhile back.

In short/ summary, juxtapose, :highfive:

[greybeard]

Once upon a time I knew so much about so little.
I could quote chapter and verse on the latest book--teacher of spirituality..
Who said what.
Now its come down to "That thou art" all is Brahman.
There is no where "God" is not.
Thats it.
With love
Chris

[O Donna]

..........

[greybeard]

anthropomorphic Listening to Stephen Wolinsky
The Ultimate has no human characteristics.

Stephen takes one very deep into spirituality

Nasargadata defined spirituality as "Finding out what you are"

Ive posted the video a few time but worth listening to again.
Space repetition is good for "me"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZ4zjeHZAg&t=26s

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

It seems to me, that Source would have known from the very get go that "man" would eventually succumb to this and fall so to speak. At least it didnt get pissed like Jehova.

I don't know to be honest, but personally I don't see Source as a "consciousness" that can know or not know things - not consciousness in the way we perceive it. The very best (at least most understandable) analogy I can think of for it is, "The Force" from Star Wars. It is the all-encompassing spirit that pervades everything, and nothing, all time and no time, forever, and never. Lol. This stuff can turn your brain into a pretzel all right. It's too far beyond our comprehension to really put in human terms. Maybe Chris would do a better job than me at it!



You don't think there may be an end game to this, at least to this chapter, like the prodigal son returning home all grown up and bursting with hard won wisdom having finally passed the test?

Maybe, and it could be that duality is the greatest test we face. From what I understand, duality begins to dissolve as we move up the vibrational scale. Eventually you become, if not not all-knowing - all-aware, as in you become the Oneness. Pure wisdom and compassion and love. As we're individual spirits, that's a journey we're all taking individually.

But I don't think there is an end game to this, unless return to Source is the end - but even that might not be the end. There is a school of thought on this matter that believes there is something beyond even God. But who knows what that is..

[greybeard]

If there is an answer its in the video I just posted.
The human mind is not capable of understanding because it does not get that Source is not human.
No human attributes what soever and in fact no attributes that are conceivable, perceivable or definable.
This is why all concepts have to be let go of.

Now none of this is my direct knowing but accepting what is in the book "I am That "

Scientist are begining to suspect that time is non existant--so where is the time to experience?

Eternal means without beginning or end--not that it goes on forever, which is time dependent.

Wear the world like a loose garment sums it up nicely.

We are here at a certain level of relative truth so we must abide by the laws of the Universe.

Spiritual teaching makes it easier to make our way through this world.

Eckhart tolle said "There was never anyone there to hurt you" knowing this may not be helpful.

Many Gurus give practical advice for surviving in this world even though they know its the Play of Consciousness and what you are The Self which can not be affected, changed, hurt, by anything that besets the human condition.

Chris

[Wind]

YaNXuSZI7eY

[Clear Light]

Ah, for those of us with Spiritual Inquisitiveness, I'm sharing the following quote because I sense it echoes a similar theme (across mystical traditions) of the "transcendence / acquiescence of the Intellect" (*) :


By grace it is possible to have full knowledge of all other created
things and their works, and indeed of the works of God himself, and
to think clearly about them, but of God himself no one can think.
And so I wish to give up everything that I can think, and choose as
my love the one thing that I cannot think.

"The Cloud of Unknowing"

And in this vein, even though I'd say Buddhism is clearly Atheistic, surely without Great Love you'll simply "fall" into meaningless Nihilism eh ?

:heart:

. : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : .

(*) Now this is *not* to say that it has no value, but that intellectual discursivity is potentially more of a hindrance than a help ( $0.02 ) ;)

[Gracy]

I'm reminded by these last few posts of the story of the great teacher who had lost his son. When his students saw him crying they asked master, why do you cry for your dead son when you teach us everything is an illusion? Through his tears the great teacher replied yes this is so, but what a beautiful illusion he was

[greybeard]

Whatever!!!!!---- illusion or not--we are here and now.

Now here is the paradox.
"Form-formless both and neither"
I hit my thumb with a hammer--it hurts here and now-- I can shout to the moon--I am not the body, but still it hurts.
The wave may be a temporary appearance but regardless, the water--the Ocean is real.
The illusion is that the wave thinks its independent--it can not survive without the Ocean.
A mirage means its not what it seems--but it has some reality.
Ramana when he had cancer was asked--"Does it hurt?" his response " There is hurt"
He did not own it---in a different context own means, all alone =on my own.
The words point. BUT they are not it.
Clues for the clueless --perhaps.
Chris

[Gracy]

Whatever!!!!!---- illusion or not--we are here and now.

•••

Clues for the clueless --perhaps.


Ouch...
Did sharing that old story upset the sensabities of this fine thread Chris? If so i apologize and will show myself to the door.

[greybeard]

Whatever!!!!!---- illusion or not--we are here and now.

•••

Clues for the clueless --perhaps.


Ouch...
Did sharing that old story upset the sensabities of this fine thread Chris? If so i apologize and will show myself to the door.

Heavens no Gracy May--you trigger thoughts and this is invaluable
Long may "May" continue to post here. We are Graced by your company.
This thread is not sensible--it does not make sense to the rational mind.
However I think it points to Truth in various ways

Much love Chris

[greybeard]

Gracy May
This may be helpful
I find it to be so.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_HgOsAU5_I&t=185s

[greybeard]

SILENCE: BE AS YOU ARE - RAMANA MAHARSHI

This if from David Godman's book.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5p-Hn9dXUo

[Wind]

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj - I Am That (http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/NisargadattaMaharaj.html)

The seeker is he who is in search of himself. Give up all questions except one: 'Who am I?' After all, the only fact you are sure of is that you are. The 'I am' is certain. The 'I am this' is not. Struggle to find out what you are in reality. To know what you are, you must first investigate and know what you are not. Discover all that you are not - body, feelings, thoughts, time, space, this or that - nothing, concrete or abstract, which you perceive can be you. The very act of perceiving shows that you are not what you perceive. The clearer you understand that on the level of mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your search and realize that you are the limitless being.

Only when you realize the true peace, the peace you have never lost, that peace will remain with you, for it was never away. Instead of searching for what you do not have, find out what is it that you have never lost? That which is there before the beginning and after the ending of everything; that to which there is no birth, nor death. That immoveable state, which is not affected by birth and death of a body or a mind, that state you must perceive.

If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all backgrounds, of all cultures, of all patterns of thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being man or woman, or even human should be discarded. The ocean of life contains all, not only humans. So, first of all abandon all self-identification, stop thinking of yourself as such-and-such or so-and-so, this or that. Abandon all self-concern, worry not about your welfare, material or spiritual, abandon every desire, gross or subtle, stop thinking of achievement of any kind. You are complete here and now, you need absolutely nothing.

That which you are, your true self, you love it, and whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge. Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love yourself absolutely. Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self- knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realization, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realize the depth and fullness of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realization can break it. Go for it resolutely.

Only the dead can die, not the living. That which is alive in you is immortal.
In reality there is only the source, dark in itself, making everything shine. Unperceived, it causes perception. Unfelt, it causes feeling. Unthinkable, it causes thought. Non-being, it gives birth to being. It is the immovable background of motion. Once you are there, you are at home everywhere.

I see what you too could see, here and now, but for the wrong focus of your attention. You give no attention to your self. Your mind is all with things, people and ideas, never with your self. Bring your self into focus, become aware of your own existence. See how you function, watch the motives and results of your actions. Study the prison you have built around yourself, by inadvertence.

Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have of yourself are altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and suffers, it is the person built on the foundation of your body by circumstances and influences. You are not that person. This must be clearly established in your mind and never lost sight of.

What is really your own, you are not conscious of. What you are conscious of is neither you nor yours. Yours is the power of perception, not what you perceive. It is a mistake to take the conscious to be the whole of man. Man is the unconscious, the
conscious and the superconscious, but you are not the man.Yours is the cinema screen, the light as well as the seeing power, but the picture is not you.

I find that somehow, by shifting the focus of attention, I become the very thing I look at, and experience the kind of consciousness it has; I become the inner witness of the thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal points of consciousness, love; you may give it any name you like. Love says "I am everything". Wisdom says "I am nothing". Between the two, my life flows. Since at any point of time and space I can be both the subject and the object of experience, I express it by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond both.

The seeker is he who is in search of himself. Soon he discovers that his own body he cannot be. Once the conviction: ' I am not the body' becomes so well grounded that he can no longer feel, think and act for and on behalf of the body, he will easily discover that he is the universal being, knowing, acting, that in him and through him the entire universe is real, conscious and active.

The world has only as much power over you as you give it. Rebel. Go beyond duality.

The source of all has all. Whatever flows from it must be there already in seed form. And as a seed is the last of innumerable seeds, and contains the experience and the promise of numberless forests, so does the Unknown contain all that was, or could have been and all that shall or would be. The entire field of becoming is open and accessible; past and future co-exist in the eternal now.

In reality there are no others, and by helping yourself you help
everybody else.

Giving up desire after desire is a lengthy process with the end never in sight. Leave alone your desires and fears, give your entire attention to the subject, to him who is behind the experience of desire and fear. Ask: who desires? Let each desire bring you back to yourself.

The Supreme State is universal, here and now; everybody already shares in it. It is a state of being--knowing and liking. Who does not like to be, or does not know his own existence?

Contemplate life as infinite, undivided, ever present, ever active, until you realize yourself as one with it. It is not even very difficult, for you will be returning only to your own natural condition.

Questioner: It will take much time if I just wait for self-realization.
Maharaj: What have you to wait for when it is already here and now? You have only to look and see. Look at your self, at your own being. You know that you are and you like it. Abandon all imagining, that is all. Do not rely on time. Time is death. Who waits--dies. Life is now only. Do not talk to me about past and future--they exist only in your mind.

Questioner: You too will die.
Maharaj: I am dead already. Physical death will make no difference in my case. I am timeless being. I am free of desire or fear, because I do not remember the past or imagine the future. Where there are no names and shapes, how can there be desire and fear? With desirelessness comes timelessness. I am safe, because what is not, cannot touch what is. You feel unsafe, because you imagine danger. Of course, your body as such is complex and vulnerable and needs protection. But not you. Once you realize your own unassailable being, you will be at peace.

Questioner: How can I find peace when the world suffers?
Maharaj: The world suffers for very valid reasons. If you want to help the world, you must be beyond the need of help. Then all your doing as well as not doing will help the world most effectively.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/FortVermilion-Sunset.JPG/1024px-FortVermilion-Sunset.JPG

[Wind]

C8qgc09-VJQ

[Wind]

WFnr6vrMZJE

[Guish]

Hi. Great to see this thread still going strong. Please find below an article I wrote about an introduction to mindfulness.

https://attentiveness.art.blog/2019/07/18/an-introduction-to-mindfulness/

[O Donna]

Hi. Great to see this thread still going strong. Please find below an article I wrote about an introduction to mindfulness.

https://attentiveness.art.blog/2019/07/18/an-introduction-to-mindfulness/

Excellent script writing (and acting) in the below clip that dovetails along with with what you wrote.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMplRnotp8M

The whole script of this clip is worth posting but for brevity:


Being alone in the world
is the root of all suffering.
But, Jerry,
you're not alone.

[RogeRio]

I guess this 2 minutes video are related to Enlightenment, allthough, it's a different approach than usual. Its very simple, practical and easy to do, like a physical exercise, that can be done at any time and situation. The goal is to move our energies, until " Turn On " our Light state, or more technically saying, Vibrational State.

Enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxwm6sQ2P_w

[Wind]

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 14: The Three Modes Of Material Nature

All embodied souls are under the control of the three modes, or qualities, of material nature; goodness, passion and ignorance. Lord Krishna explains what these modes are, how they act upon us, how one transcends them, and the symptoms of one who has attained the transcendental state.

"The Blessed Lord said: Again I shall declare to you this supreme wisdom, the best of all knowledge, knowing which all the sages have attained to supreme perfection.

By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the transcendental nature, which is like My own nature. Thus established, one is not born at the time of creation nor disturbed at the time of dissolution.

The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth, and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births of all living beings, O son of Bharata.

It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.

Material nature consists of the three modes-goodness, passion and ignorance. When the living entity comes in contact with nature, he becomes conditioned by these modes.

O sinless one, the mode of goodness, being purer than the others, is illuminating, and it frees one from all sinful reactions. Those situated in that mode develop knowledge, but they become conditioned by the concept of happiness.

The mode of passion is born of unlimited desires and longings, O son of Kunti, and because of this one is bound to material fruitive activities.

O son of Bharata, the mode of ignorance causes the delusion of all living entities. The result of this mode is madness, indolence and sleep, which bind the conditioned soul.

The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

Sometimes the mode of passion becomes prominent, defeating the mode of goodness, O son of Bharata. And sometimes the mode of goodness defeats passion, and at other times the mode of ignorance defeats goodness and passion. In this way there is always competition for supremacy.

The manifestations of the mode of goodness can be experienced when all the gates of the body are illuminated by knowledge.

O chief of the Bharatas, when there is an increase in the mode of passion, the symptoms of great attachment, uncontrollable desire, hankering, and intense endeavor develop.

O son of Kuru, when there is an increase in the mode of ignorance madness, illusion, inertia and darkness are manifested.

When one dies in the mode of goodness, he attains to the pure higher planets.

When one dies in the mode of passion, he takes birth among those engaged in fruitive activities; and when he dies in the mode of ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom.

By acting in the mode of goodness, one becomes purified. Works done in the mode of passion result in distress, and actions performed in the mode of ignorance result in foolishness.

From the mode of goodness, real knowledge develops; from the mode of passion, grief develops; and from the mode of ignorance, foolishness, madness and illusion develop.

Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and those in the mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds.

When you see that there is nothing beyond these modes of nature in all activities and that the Supreme Lord is transcendental to all these modes, then you can know My spiritual nature.

When the embodied being is able to transcend these three modes, he can become free from birth, death, old age and their distresses and can enjoy nectar even in this life.

Arjuna inquired: O my dear Lord, by what symptoms is one known who is transcendental to those modes? What is his behavior? And how does he transcend the modes of nature?

The Blessed Lord said: He who does not hate illumination, attachment and delusion when they are present, nor longs for them when they disappear; who is seated like one unconcerned, being situated beyond these material reactions of the modes of nature, who remains firm, knowing that the modes alone are active; who regards alike pleasure and pain, and looks on a clod, a stone and a piece of gold with an equal eye; who is wise and holds praise and blame to be the same; who is unchanged in honor and dishonor, who treats friend and foe alike, who has abandoned all fruitive undertakings-such a man is said to have transcended the modes of nature.

One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

http://auromaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Bhagvad-Gita-Krishna-mod.jpg

[Guish]

Hi. Great to see this thread still going strong. Please find below an article I wrote about an introduction to mindfulness.

https://attentiveness.art.blog/2019/07/18/an-introduction-to-mindfulness/

Excellent script writing (and acting) in the below clip that dovetails along with with what you wrote.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMplRnotp8M

The whole script of this clip is worth posting but for brevity:


Being alone in the world
is the root of all suffering.
But, Jerry,
you're not alone.

Wow. Thank you my friend. Indeed.

[Cara]

This is a talk given by an orthodox catholic (Greek orthodox I think) monk, Fr Maximos, on thoughts and not “becoming hostage to them” (my words, not his). He gives lots of examples from everyday life. I found it clear, easy to follow and helpful.

Some might be put off by the orthodox Christian orientation but I hope not.

It’s starts at 8:00 minutes in and is about 1 hour. Towards the end he answers questions.

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[greybeard]

Thanks for the video cara.
The truth lies in all religions---dogma covers it.'
Chris

[Cara]

Thanks for the video cara.
The truth lies in all religions---dogma covers it.'
Chris

Thanks Chris. Yes, this certainly seems so.

[greybeard]

Swami Sarvapriyananda on Ultimate truth | Ashtavakra | Non-Duality



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B0WA61v10Y

Ramana Maharshi and Who Am I Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcrrC3ws84

[Guish]

Hi Beautiful people,

A second article on correct breathing.

https://attentiveness.art.blog/2019/07/29/correct-breathing/

Lots of love,
Geerish.

[greybeard]

The Nondual Self by Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKLtgRRBIjc

[greybeard]

Realizing Non-Duality (pt.3) by Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZOrq2dqkuY

[greybeard]

Swami Sarvapriyananda - "Astavakra The Heart of Awareness"

This was the second lecture given by Swami Sarvapriyananda at RKVSNC on August 19, 2017. This lecture was a discourse on chapter 1, verse 12 from the Astavakra Gita/Astavakra Samhita:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqZ1z16yyP4

[Rich]

br1RObzLKgw
2:35 mins short

[greybeard]

Swami Sarvapriyananda - "Astavakra The Heart of Awareness"

The Swami is clear and humorous.
There is a lot of study and devotion to the Truth behind the simplicity.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqZ1z16yyP4&t=222s

[Clear Light]

Ah, in light of recent discussion over Attentive Mindfulness vs Relaxed Aware Emptiness, I've just watched this short video (9 mins) from Rupert Spira's YT channel and you may also find how it relates to the subject at hand eh ? ;)

vA26ESeUJ9o
The Simplicity of Self Abidance : Rupert Spira (Published on 2 Aug 2019)

:heart:

[greybeard]

As you are no doubt aware Clear Light--trying--focusing gets in the way.
Consciousness is always there--no need to find it
Awareness has no characteristics --we put our attention on something--awareness is aware but unaffected.
Im getting a lot from Swami-- though the videos are not short.

Ive known about the teaching--that pointing to. for ages but its superficial though getting more accepted.

Only Bramhan is--I am that.
Takes a lot of believing for this one to be God-- but its true never the less.

Space repetition is good for me--I need to hear this over an over again
Only one consciousness--everything is an appearance in that one field.
Consciousness is typing this--sitting--breathing-aware.
All an appearance

Mind wants to complicate--the Swami says that people want enlightenment bust are scared of it.
Its postponed till later.
Yet Enlightenment is here now.
The swami has some sense of humour--asked about spirit he said " You find that in a bar" asked about soul he said "My shoe has one"

Only Brahman is --The same consciousness in every being-
There is no where that Brahman is not.
We think we are in the body--the body is an appearance in the field of consciousness.
By process of elimination--not this not this--the Truth is arrived at.

Even Universes come and go but "Self" remains.

Chris

[Guish]

Hi Friends,

New article on keeping your karma clean:

https://attentiveness.art.blog/2019/08/03/7-tips-to-keep-your-karma-clean/

Much love,
Geerish.

[greybeard]

Swami Sarvapriyananda | Guided Yoga Nidra ( Yogic Sleep ). MUST TRY !!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlINp3FdVDs

Full Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWKY8...

Swami Sarvapriyananda : Swami Sarvapriyananda has been appointed as Minister and Spiritual Leader of the Vedanta Society of New York, and assumed his duties here on January 6, 2017.

Prior to this, he served as assistant minister of the Vedanta Society of Southern California for 13 months, beginning on December 3, 2015.

Swami joined the Ramakrishna Math and Mission in 1994 and received Sannyas in 2004. Before being posted to the VSSC’s Hollywood Temple, Swami served as an acharya (teacher) of the monastic probationers’ training center at Belur Math. He has served the Ramakrishna Math and Mission in various capacities including being the Vice Principal of the Deoghar Vidyapith Higher Secondary School, Principal of the Shikshana Mandira Teacher Education College at Belur Math, and the first Registrar of the Vivekananda University at Belur Math

[Clear Light]

Oh, for those following Swami Sarvapriyananda's excellent videos on YouTube, I just wanted to mention that he has recently accepted a Fellowship at Harvard University and will be taking a break from regular teaching for about a year ... it's mentioned briefly at https://www.beingyoga.com/Swami.html and Swami Sarvapriyananda at Samadhi Yoga House August 11 (https://www.facebook.com/events/1397-fall-river-rd-fall-river-ns-b2t-1e5-canada/swami-sarvapriyananda-at-samadhi-yoga-house-august-11/2327747770780232/) and probably elsewhere too ? Best Wishes Swami :heart:

[greybeard]

Well its down to you Clear Light that I started watching the Swami ---many thanks
Chris

[O Donna]

br1RObzLKgw
2:35 mins short

According to the bible even Jesus, as the story goes, had his moment of 'real' doubt and pain.


“My God, my God, why have you left me?” (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 CEB)

Moments of enlightenment can be found everywhere, even secular lyrics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnClrx8N2k

P.s. Thanks for the post. Good one.

[Rich]

Depends whom you ask. There are some who can converse directly with "Jesus" I trust those more than the bible.
Once I met such a man and he said I would write a book.

Been doing the ACIM lessons lately it helps to get one out of the matrix I believe, from lesson #2
4XjnhCMpnQ0

[O Donna]

The more something is brought to light the more commonplace it becomes and as such, what is naked is no longer.

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-depend-upon-it-there-is-nothing-so-unnatural-as-the-commonplace-arthur-conan-doyle-47-37-35.jpg

[greybeard]

When I look back on the books I have read--the spiritual teachers--some whom I have been fortunate to meet--there has been a progression of understanding.
Yet the very first said what I now know---only God is--however I was not ready to understand the much used Oneness. (The Father and I are One) I did not get that what Jesus said applied to all--everyone.
It is good I think to listen to various teachers --eventually it is realized there is a common denominator, no matter how it is expressed. That Thou Art.
I could see that only God is ----but I could not accept that this must also apply to me.

Eventually I could see that I am of the same energy as God but not such a strong voltage. Watt!!!!
That implies separation--me and God.
Not what the various teachers say.
Advaita means literally "One without a second"
The God Realized in India have been known to say "I am the totality all of it"
If it can be accepted that only consciousness is --then that holds true.

The Swami has for me cleared the doubts--because I was ready to accept the Truth of what I am.
Many other teachers have said much the same but I was not ready to fully understand.
Still work in progress but the knowledge is there.
So repetition continues with a greater intensity--taking in the energy carried in the videos of the Swami and others.

Chris

[greybeard]

i know of a place, it is the truest place i know, it is home

it is within me and yet, beyond

the entrance door to home is through my heart, i open it and walk through

it is a place like no other i have known, and yet, have always known it to be, i had just forgotten how to enter, now i remember


i cannot tell you how it feels to be home, have only tears when i recall, many tears trying to describe it

home has no fear, hatred or greed

there is no lack, there is no thing to control


i believed it to be the state of well being, and yet, it is beyond all that we know of wellness

i believed it to be the home of great healing, and yet, when i am there, there is no thing within me to heal

i believed it to be freedom, and yet, i do not know of limitations there and thus, freedom just is

i believed home to be a place of bliss, of joy, of great happiness, and yet, home is absent of these emotions singularily, and yet, inclusive of all collectively


when home, i just am and it is in the simplicity of my being that i experience divine fulfillment, there is not a thing to need or desire or to think i want or hope for

there is no thing to hope for when home just is and all is true

home is the fulfillment of unconditional love, this i do not experience as a feeling, rather, it just is


home is not perfection, home is truer than that

i do not feel my self when home though i know i am a divine being of love and light

i do not know of separation when home, i only know of oneness with all that is


when home i do not feel empathy or compassion or goodness or good deeds for they are separation, i do not experience these the way i do in illusion

i do not feel pain, nor is there suffering, i only know they do not exist


i believed home to be the greatest healer and yet, when home, i do not require healing, my being just is and there is no thing to be healed


home is to just be, neutral, in balance ... pure

home is unconditional love known


there is such a place, i cannot describe really what it is to enter home, to know of its peace and its calm


i do not know why i have found the entrance, perhaps it is because i trust all that is, that i have trusted it exists, always am i welcomed


home is absent of words, of feelings, of emotion of illusion

home just is and it is the purest fulfillment i know


i have asked so many times, please, let me take others by their hand and bring them home ...


i am still awaiting an answer ...

i wish i could bring all who i know home, and others

it is in the wishing that i cannot do so, wishing is separation and does not align with home ...


i am still awaiting ...

i can only trust others will find their own way home, i hold that space for them, i believe it is all i can do in this moment, is to hold the space ...


and to love ...

i ask the universe, please allow everyone in this world to find their way home as i have ...


allow everyone to find the entrance to their hearts ...


and walk in ...

and go beyond ...


i know of a place, the truest place i know ...

" Unknown author "

[O Donna]

Ultimately it is not enough to know it or be it, per say.

[Clear Light]

Ultimately it is not enough to know it or be it, per say.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8jV71fIsz-A/Tq46Nhig4KI/AAAAAAAAAqI/EHyrexKSk2Y/s400/seed-tree72.jpg

Or : Ultimately, directing your Attention correctly, is a necessary adjustment prior to setting off on a Fruitful journey "Back Home" eh ? :waving:

[O Donna]

Ultimately it is not enough to know it or be it, per say.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8jV71fIsz-A/Tq46Nhig4KI/AAAAAAAAAqI/EHyrexKSk2Y/s400/seed-tree72.jpg

Or : Ultimately, directing your Attention correctly, is a necessary adjustment prior to setting off on a Fruitful journey "Back Home" eh ? :waving:

Or: https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohryhLGwtyIGy1ibS/giphy.gif


Home and the mind is always trying to play catch up.

[greybeard]

Ultimately awareness can not be directed according to the Swami.
Awareness would be aware of the focus of attention but un-moved.
Awareness is what we are.
Any thing that we are aware of can not be us.
And on it goes.
Smiling.
C

[Clear Light]

Ultimately awareness can not be directed according to the Swami.
Awareness would be aware of the focus of attention but un-moved.
Awareness is what we are.
Any thing that we are aware of can not be us.
And on it goes.
Smiling.
C

Ah, yes indeed, whereas Attention is of the Mind and it can be "directed" !!! :thumbsup:

[Clear Light]

i34IuGJUj30
Published on 25 Jan 2016 - A short but direct pointing instruction from Lama Tsultrim Allione (Length 4m:42s)


Ah, the "nature of mind" is the SAME for all beings and it is so simple "I" was not able to "accept" it for many years LOL :bigsmile:

Oh, I'm bump'ing this particular video because for those interested it details the "HOW" of it ... ;)

[O Donna]

.....In a state that is not fabricated it's not, it's not something created...

I can see why you high-lighted this particular video, Clear Light. The whole dialogue is worth multiple listens while catching various gems within, one of which I high-lighted above.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHmgpgmY_8w2yrx958Cn3vM1LfpLGNDeSOw9PvQheyiXueD9Vu4w

[Delight]

I enjoyed this so much.....

8mP4As8FJAc

[RogueEllis]

Russell Brand is such a gem. We watched the Twelve Steps According to Russell Brand while I was in treatment and it really turned me on to him.

lK083EvyiMI

Finding out he's done even more incredible messages from this thread, I've dove a little deeper into YouTube to find all sorts of great videos from him.

Anyways, I'm sorry, delete this if it's too off-topic. My brain just kind of...wandered...I tried to follow, close behind. I stayed on topic as best as I could.

[greybeard]

Delight Thanks for your post---good to see you here.
Chris

[greybeard]

Russell Brand is such a gem. We watched the Twelve Steps According to Russell Brand while I was in treatment and it really turned me on to him.

lK083EvyiMI

Finding out he's done even more incredible messages from this thread, I've dove a little deeper into YouTube to find all sorts of great videos from him.

Anyways, I'm sorry, delete this if it's too off-topic. My brain just kind of...wandered...I tried to follow, close behind. I stayed on topic as best as I could.

Its very much on topic Rogue Ellis.
The twelve steps is one of the greatest gifts to mankind.
The late Dr David Hawkins, whom the the early parts of this thread influenced through his various books--was there in the early days of AA and I suspect contributed to the formation of the steps.
It would not be an exaggeration to say AA saved my life.

Chris

[Rich]

.....In a state that is not fabricated it's not, it's not something created...

I can see why you high-lighted this particular video, Clear Light...

This is also an idea ACIM stresses the most, that we cannot create ourselves.


I am as God created me.
Today we continue with the one idea which brings complete salvation; the one statement which makes all forms of temptation powerless; the one thought which renders the ego silent and entirely undone. You are as God created you. The sounds of this world are still, the sights of this world disappear, and all the thoughts that this world ever held are wiped away forever by this one idea.


It does say, however that we do create like God.

In your open mind are your creations, in perfect communication born of perfect understanding.
Could you but accept one of them you would not want anything the world has to offer.
Everything else would be totally meaningless. God's meaning is incomplete without you, and you are incomplete without your creations.

[greybeard]

Thanks as always for your contributions Rich.
ACIM is an underrated gift to humanity.
Chris

[greybeard]

Tony Parsons • Non-Duality • Munich Nov. 2018

Tony Parsons speaks about Non-Duality (Advaita) • questions and answers • Audio with photos • Munich Germany Nov. 2018 • www.theopensecret.com


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZsqSEEte7I

[Wind]

All appearances are impermanent
and can therefore be stripped away,
whereas your true Self as pure awareness
is timelessly present and unchanging.
You can keep removing, sweeping aside,
discarding appearances until nothing is left
to remove, and even the very concept
of removing itself disappears.
Finally, even the concept of a 'remover'
gets dissolved and one comes to see
that That which is beyond all notions
remains timelessly present.
That, the unchanging awareness,
is your Self. This is the Truth.

~ Mooji

https://scontent.fqlf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67831264_10156950854748962_1777088812309020672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeEaXinIPz1_UGb2nLgD7Nx_Ee6zRqzCXU1_C20qirKTLyP4DCMx16V_8EAOxLtjLqPB9p7m1ObztQ-m7bfvGZoJ3f0OUC9DtqngQe5JzVmfyA&_nc_oc=AQmRNmE6xXIteB1YJaCBsq7fB7J3Vu3xTHu9KUPNo0eZ6ldgKMquhZGhrGwC6YZaB4J2oqLGX1_EmzSbcQ15Il40&_nc_ht=scontent.fqlf1-1.fna&oh=ade50d127b8a038f652085d7b87acd25&oe=5DD2A910

[O Donna]

All appearances are impermanent
and can therefore be stripped away,
whereas your true Self as pure awareness
is timelessly present and unchanging.
You can keep removing, sweeping aside,
discarding appearances until nothing is left
to remove, and even the very concept
of removing itself disappears.
Finally, even the concept of a 'remover'
gets dissolved and one comes to see
that That which is beyond all notions
remains timelessly present.
That, the unchanging awareness,
is your Self. This is the Truth.

~ Mooji

https://scontent.fqlf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67831264_10156950854748962_1777088812309020672_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeEaXinIPz1_UGb2nLgD7Nx_Ee6zRqzCXU1_C20qirKTLyP4DCMx16V_8EAOxLtjLqPB9p7m1ObztQ-m7bfvGZoJ3f0OUC9DtqngQe5JzVmfyA&_nc_oc=AQmRNmE6xXIteB1YJaCBsq7fB7J3Vu3xTHu9KUPNo0eZ6ldgKMquhZGhrGwC6YZaB4J2oqLGX1_EmzSbcQ15Il40&_nc_ht=scontent.fqlf1-1.fna&oh=ade50d127b8a038f652085d7b87acd25&oe=5DD2A910

All description of what is-is falls away.

[Chester]

Thanks as always for your contributions Rich.
ACIM is an underrated gift to humanity.
Chris

I remember the time...

Year 2000 while flying from Bangkok to Curaçao via Amsterdam - read the first half of the Teachers Manual during the first leg, got 6 hours sleep at the Krasnapolsky (and avoided wondering into the neighborhood), then finished it during the second leg.

41332

The very first line in the very first section (The Introduction) says:


The role of teaching and learning is actually reversed in the thinking of the world.

That certainly seems true to me (and more so as I age).

[greybeard]

Thanks for your post Sammy
Chris

[greybeard]

Defining God by Swami Sarvapriyananda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoF0pOcKOCc&t=14s

[O Donna]

Thanks as always for your contributions Rich.
ACIM is an underrated gift to humanity.
Chris

I remember the time...

Year 2000 while flying from Bangkok to Curaçao via Amsterdam - read the first half of the Teachers Manual during the first leg, got 6 hours sleep at the Krasnapolsky (and avoided wondering into the neighborhood), then finished it during the second leg.

41332

The very first line in the very first section (The Introduction) says:


The role of teaching and learning is actually reversed in the thinking of the world.

That certainly seems true to me (and more so as I age).

Reverse engineering the very title itself (A Course In Miracles) reveals a conclusion such as mentioned.

[Clear Light]

Oh, for some Practical experiments as well as some great Humour, I'd suggest spending the full 30 minutes listening to this excellent video with Swami Sarvapriyananda ... "you" may find it illuminating eh ? ;)

Experience the Truth (Non-Dual Awareness) of Ashtavakra Gita by Experiments ~ Swami Sarvapriyananda

E9nNFQdKZ6w


This video leads us to experience the Advaitic Truth stated in ‘Ashtavakra Gita’. Swami Sarvapriyananda has taught many experiments by which we can separate our selves from the body, mind, ego. Swami Sarvapriyananda has given two experiments with stories to grasp the meaning of the verse from Ashtavakra Gita as well as to feel the meaning of the Ashtavakra Gita.

‘Ashtavakra Gita’ is one of the Advaitic (Non-Dual Awareness) masterpieces. Without mincing matters it comes out with the Advaitic truth (Non-Dual Awareness), the whole truth and nothing but Advaita (Non-Dual Awareness) which is the Truth.

[greybeard]

Ah well we are very much on the same page--are we not!!!!!
Chris

[greybeard]

This thread has just gone over 900Thousand visits.
Nothing to do with me.
There does seem to be a growing interest and awakening accelerating.
Is the bad getting worse and the good getting better.
Time will tell where it is going.
The SM story part of this---or is it That!!!!
Chris

[greybeard]

What Happens to Awareness after Death?
A discussion exploring Awareness after death and the notion of reincarnation.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwRDCj2Qgyw

[RogueEllis]

I have been very depressed as of late. My friend says my brain is just aligning itself. I take medicine that makes me feel like dull wood. This is probably the wrong thread but I feel as if I've done everything wrong as of late so this would just be another on the list. My point is, I need SOMETHING to make me feel centered. Something to calm my nerves. To unwind my stress, unwind my nerves, to just unwind me. In short, I think maybe what I need, is maybe some ENLIGHTENMENT. I know this thread is huge and full of it and that's the problem - it's intimidating. I was hoping if I could make this a little personal then I could be pointed in the slightest rightest enlightendist direction for me.

Again, sorry if this post is all wrong. I'm just trying to feel something.

[Wind]

There does seem to be a growing interest and awakening accelerating.
Is the bad getting worse and the good getting better.
Time will tell where it is going.

The extremes will be getting more intense in their polarization as the time of purification draws closer. Nothing to be feared though, that is how all things become balanced once again and united with the will of the Creator.

It is good to see that there is some interest in (deeply) spiritual matters these days, it sure gives me some hope, this Kali Yuga could be worse too!

How Do I Remember Myself When Facing Challenges?

WDldXF2VEmU

[greybeard]

I have been very depressed as of late. My friend says my brain is just aligning itself. I take medicine that makes me feel like dull wood. This is probably the wrong thread but I feel as if I've done everything wrong as of late so this would just be another on the list. My point is, I need SOMETHING to make me feel centered. Something to calm my nerves. To unwind my stress, unwind my nerves, to just unwind me. In short, I think maybe what I need, is maybe some ENLIGHTENMENT. I know this thread is huge and full of it and that's the problem - it's intimidating. I was hoping if I could make this a little personal then I could be pointed in the slightest rightest enlightendist direction for me.

Again, sorry if this post is all wrong. I'm just trying to feel something.

RogueEllis
Your post is appreciated.
The thread is about sharing.
"Dark night of the soul" would seem to be part of "evolving."

We are not the body or the mind but both need looked after.
Ive always been a bit Bi Polar--highs and lows and the lows could go on for some time
So to be practical.
I use Organic Mucuna powder from Indigo Herbs.
After several days use there was a marked difference
Loads of information on line about this herb.
Best wishes
Chris

[greybeard]

If I Am GOD, Why Should I Pray? | Swami Sarvapriyananda
Well well
I think the swami has answered just about every unanswered question I have ever had.
In awe.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzmrUM6OfQc

[greybeard]

Mind Attacks — Don't Give Up!
Walk with Mooji Baba

During a morning walk, Mooji Baba stops for a while to speak about a worry which many beings encounter while following his guidance, a worry about apparent mind attacks. The Master shows how this phenomenon is nothing to worry about and offers powerful words of encouragement.

“In fact it is a sign that you are making progress and that you are sinking more deeply. It might feel like a bumpy ride for a while but it is totally worth it.

"For a while you might feel unsure about things but there is an underlying trust that something is guiding your way and holding your hand. Don’t be disheartened, don’t be discouraged. Everything positive is on your side.

"A higher power is with you. Just keep saying, ‘Yes, yes, I am here for the Truth.'"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdKs13kf13A

[Clear Light]

41389

Ah, it's as if the apparent "self" having heard of "enlightenment" sets out towards the "Goal" but without realizing it actually means the end of itself ... and so on and on it "tries", getting closer (it hopes) to being Enlightened BUT still remaining as a "self" ... now just as a Reflection can never become the Mirror, in the same way, the "self" can never become the Enlightened Awareness in which it appears AS a Reflection eh ? ;)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/0d/83/d20d832e1021bd8ef9aa9e20675b98ba.jpg

This is why I'd suggest it's necessary to learn / read about Emptiness !

[greybeard]

The late Dr David Hawkins said that in his last existence he was puzzled by the thought Existence vs non-existence so he ended up in the void--he incarnated this time to resolve this question.
He came to realize that the void was still of the mind and that consciousness was there to witness this so the void was not empty.
That's his explanation as best I remember.
I used to annoy people by quoting him relentlessly--he was my man so to speak -- smiling
Chris

[Clear Light]

Experience the Truth (Non-Dual Awareness) of Ashtavakra Gita by Experiments ~ Swami Sarvapriyananda

OKzNnIT0sgA


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/0d/83/d20d832e1021bd8ef9aa9e20675b98ba.jpg

Ah, I've just noticed there's a kind of a Correlation between what Swami is saying in the above video together with the Mask as depicted in the lower third of the image just above ... because if you listen (in total it's less than for three minutes) from the 4:57 mark to about the 7:22 mark Swami talks about the Person, the root of which is Persona ... like a MASK worn by Actors in a Play eh ? ;)

Now, for some, being told you're not the Ego nor the Body nor the Thoughts may feel somewhat disconcerting or it might be exactly what one needs to hear ... but unless it is investigated how can it ever get beyond being mere Intellectual Speculation eh ?

:sherlock:

[greybeard]

Clear Light I appreciated that you take the time to post--share -here.
All thought provoking--smiling.
Cant mask That
Chris

[RogueEllis]

I have been very depressed as of late. My friend says my brain is just aligning itself. I take medicine that makes me feel like dull wood. This is probably the wrong thread but I feel as if I've done everything wrong as of late so this would just be another on the list. My point is, I need SOMETHING to make me feel centered. Something to calm my nerves. To unwind my stress, unwind my nerves, to just unwind me. In short, I think maybe what I need, is maybe some ENLIGHTENMENT. I know this thread is huge and full of it and that's the problem - it's intimidating. I was hoping if I could make this a little personal then I could be pointed in the slightest rightest enlightendist direction for me.

Again, sorry if this post is all wrong. I'm just trying to feel something.

RogueEllis
Your post is appreciated.
The thread is about sharing.
"Dark night of the soul" would seem to be part of "evolving."

We are not the body or the mind but both need looked after.
Ive always been a bit Bi Polar--highs and lows and the lows could go on for some time
So to be practical.
I use Organic Mucuna powder from Indigo Herbs.
After several days use there was a marked difference
Loads of information on line about this herb.
Best wishes
Chris


Thank you, Chris.

I looked up the powder you mentioned and have plans on Monday to visit my local health foods store to see if they stock it. In the mean time, I hope it is okay if I post this short Bruce Lee video I found very calming:
cJMwBwFj5nQ

[greybeard]

Paul Hedderman - Non Duality - 8/3/2019
ates/locations for upcoming talks: http://zenbitchslap.com/events/specia...

My name is Paul Hedderman. I have been leading workshops and holding talks for 30 years on recovery, non duality, and A Course in Miracles. Many of the talks are available here for you to listen to and download. Thanks, Paul.
---------------
If by finding these videos valuable in any way, and you are moved to donate to the upkeep of my lavish lifestyle, that would be greatly appreciated. https://goo.gl/ugGoxM


Paul is no holds barred--in your face --but well worth listening to for the brave and foolhardy. Lol
Seriously he can laugh at life in his own unique way.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-rsbnQBJWo

[greybeard]

Vedantic ||"OM"|| Meditation Guide by Swami Sarvapriyananda ~ VedantaZenOneness


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0XMTFKIagY