Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[Belle]

Prayer of St. Francis

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life

[Belle]

I had a bit of a meltdown last night and posted what was for me a scathing post on the "between the lines" thread, post #72. Charles tried several times to correct misquotes and set the record straight, but to no avail. With all the arguing and posturing and postulating that's been going on, it was the bullying that got to me and Mama Bear Belle just wanted to scream, "you should be ashamed of yourselves!" I was shaken by my outburst...and ashamed...and am seriously contemplating leaving as a member of Avalon.

Of course, I couldn't stay away and entered the site as a lurker. And was blessed to find Celine's "Open Letter to Avalonians". Signed in to pm her my thanks and viewed a few other threads that expressed concern about what was happening here. Then quickly got off.

Beginning to cook dinner tonight, consumed by what I was doing and giving thanks for the food, the divine stepped in with the words "I need do nothing". An "aha!" moment if there ever was one.

I've studied the Course in Miracles since it was first published. "I need do nothing". Basic. I had allowed my emotions and compassion for the souls on here that had been hurt by cruel words, arrogance and bullying take control. The ego took control and I let it. I'm so sorry.

Picking myself up, dusting myself off, I begin once again. "I need do nothing".

[greybeard]

The ego hates the twelve step program of AA
Admit to being wrong? You can not be serious!!!
Step 10 of AA Twelve step program
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it

Millions have been saved from sure death by AA.
Before Bill W had a spiritual wakening and started AA if you were alcoholic you died end of story.

The 12 steps of AA have helped many millions become sober in the full sense of that word and by becoming so were of great help to the comunity.

Many twelve step groups for many ailments, emotional, addictive and allergic have sprung up.
Frankly any community founded on the principles and steps of AA would be great place to live.

No bosses teaching by example all groups autonomous, self supporting no views on outside matters.

"But one ultimate authority a loving God as He may express Himself in our group consciousness. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern"

that is from AA 12 Traditions

No wonder AA is so successful
That would be a great tradition to base a future world society on.

Slowly but surly a raising of consciousness has been going on and will continue, we will have a new earth in our life time.
Working to at least reduce the hold of the ego helps to raise consciousness.
A raised consciousness is capable of bringing about wondrous things.
Thanks Belle for prayer

and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life

I believe it is the death of the ego fallen consciousness that St Francis is speaking of here.

Chris

[Belle]

You are a blessing, Greybeard. This thread is a blessing. This is where I could not wait to come to after this experience.

If one doesn't/can't admit error, the ego wins. What better way is there to help someone else on their path, should they need it, than the admission of error, the receiving of amazing grace, and beginning anew...and beginning anew....and beginning anew. For this is a lifelong journey, and God would not have us walk it alone.

[greybeard]

You are a blessing, Greybeard. This thread is a blessing. This is where I could not wait to come to after this experience.

If one doesn't/can't admit error, the ego wins. What better is there to help someone else on their path, should they need it, than the admission of error, the receiving of amazing grace, and beginning anew...and beginning anew....and beginning anew. For this is a lifelone journey, and God would not have us walk it alone.

Belle we need you, believe me.
It does my heart good to see people posting here.
The moment the light of awareness is shone on the ego's behavior it starts to dissolve.

Something to be aware of is that the moment we commit to moving forward spiritually everything that obscures the truth of what we are (Self) comes up to be viewed and released. That can be very painful especially when we do not meet our own standards.
At the moment it is very easy to be led into what is going on at Avalon, sticking up for anyone seen to be misunderstood or under attack is a great quality.

So be kind and forgiving to yourself, you deserve it.

Love chris

[Bosswagon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ5J2GkhiBo

I know so many people who think they can do it alone
They isolate their heads and stay in their safety zones
Now what can you tell them
And what can you say that won't make them defensive
Hang on to your ego
Hang on, but I know that you're gonna lose the fight
They come on like their peaceful
But inside they're so uptight
They trip through the day
And waste all their thoughts at night
Now how can I say it
And how can I come on
When I know I'm guilty
Hang on to your ego
Hang on, but I know that you're gonna lose the fight
Now how can I say it
And how can I come on
When I know I'm guilty
So hang on to your ego
Hang on, but I know that you're gonna lose the fight

[greybeard]

Very often something some one says triggers something within me.
Bright G did that I posted this there and it is relevant here.
So forgive me or double posting.

It takes time but eventually it is found that the whole purpose is to find that purpose is an illusion.
When one is free of belief systems concepts and so forth then life is effortless and can be enjoyed to the full.
In the process of finding out the ego will shout and scream and try to convince you that you will die without it looking after you.
It will justify every unkind and selfish thing you do, till the penny drops that yes you are important in the scheme of things, everyone is.
But you dont have to do anything other than be yourself.
By the time you have found this out, yourself is quite a different Self than the self you thought you were.
So all is necessary in the process of finding out that the process of evolution happens through you without you purposefully directing it.
You are a bystander enjoying consciousness at play, the cosmic dance, yet you are the "instrument" that enables this to happen.
You are a wave of the Divine ocean and without you there would be no ocean.

Chris
Namaste

[9eagle9]

Purpose is really a choice isn't' it? I don't condemn it since we aren't expected to just sit around and be holy but its still a choice and not something that was imposed on us. I try to think of my purpose as best utilizing what comes naturally to me (so I don't have to DO anything) in an attempt to lend a hand when I can but not be Obligated out of a false sense of purpose to do so.

What a relief. To have that obligation to live up to some standard dissolve away.

People ask me if I ever plan to do anything great with abilities, great with my life. I'm wishing my ablities would motivate me to clean out the pantry let alone go save the world...ha ha .

I'm thinking it was Echart Tolle (maybe not) that said you are always in purpose, whether you are doing something great for humanity or just tying your shoes. I presume this means that every moment we breathe, regardless if we are doing anything or not we are in our purpose. That is a reassuring thought. I wish I had known it when my mother was still living so when her judgements and criticisms kicked in I could call on it. Likely though that would have created a great blaring drama on its own if I said "Hey mom, regardless of what you think of my job or my life, I'm still in God's purpose." Yeah I can see where that remark would have turned into **** hitting the fan...lol.

Anyway when my ego creeps in and says you "You should be doing your housework instead of horsing around" I remind it I'm fulfilling my purpose. Not to have to BE or DO anything. And if the stress of Be-ing and Do=ing starts to creep in its because of a choice I made or something I chose to obligate myself too.

[PathWalker]

Purpose is really a choice isn't' it? I don't condemn it since we aren't expected to just sit around and be holy but its still a choice and not something that was imposed on us. I try to think of my purpose as best utilizing what comes naturally to me (so I don't have to DO anything) in an attempt to lend a hand when I can but not be Obligated out of a false sense of purpose to do so.

What a relief. To have that obligation to live up to some standard dissolve away.

People ask me if I ever plan to do anything great with abilities, great with my life. I'm wishing my ablities would motivate me to clean out the pantry let alone go save the world...ha ha .

I'm thinking it was Echart Tolle (maybe not) that said you are always in purpose, whether you are doing something great for humanity or just tying your shoes. I presume this means that every moment we breathe, regardless if we are doing anything or not we are in our purpose. That is a reassuring thought. I wish I had known it when my mother was still living so when her judgements and criticisms kicked in I could call on it. Likely though that would have created a great blaring drama on its own if I said "Hey mom, regardless of what you think of my job or my life, I'm still in God's purpose." Yeah I can see where that remark would have turned into **** hitting the fan...lol.

Anyway when my ego creeps in and says you "You should be doing your housework instead of horsing around" I remind it I'm fulfilling my purpose. Not to have to BE or DO anything. And if the stress of Be-ing and Do=ing starts to creep in its because of a choice I made or something I chose to obligate myself too.

The purpose is a choice indeed. The question who is making choice.
We are programmed by TPTB that it is the ego. Actual it is your/my soul.
It is a personal ego choice to follow the purpose or deny it in both cases there is a lesson to be learned.

We are programmed to think we are in control, which is partially true. We are co-creators, we take part in the responsibility of our reality. Since Karma is involved.
We take full responsibility to our emotional reality/condition (which is an ego construct).

[greybeard]

I would like to thank all the non members (guests) who visit here .in great numbers.
Often there are more to be seen at the bottom to the page than members.
Keep coming, you might like to join Avalon and post in the spiritual section.
You are sure of a welcome
Chris

[The Mad spirtualist]

I wish I had enough time to read everyone posts in ever thread so I let my intuition guide me to what is relevant to me. This is the type of thread that I will read through from beginning to end cause I know it is beneficial for me. But first allow me to put in my two cents. It is as simple as flesh and spirit. As long as you are flesh you need the ego cause without it death comes quickly. Cause of the 3D nature of this reality we need ego to survive! If I let go of my ego I would end up nailed to the cross quicker than Christ! So I don't think getting rid of the ego is possible if you want to live in this reality for any amount of time. No but learning to control your ego through spirit is the best you can do which is at times really hard to do.
Living by spirit is the best way to keep the ego in check. No matter how spiritually advanced you may think you are the ego is right there with you til the death of the flesh at least this 3D version. There is no need for it then. Transcending ego is to leave this 3D plane.

[vibrations]

I haven't read everything in this thread but for me the best description of ego was from Eckhart Tolle and his books. After reading, (listening) his books and conferences it is the most logical thing until now.

[truthseekerdan]

I wish I had enough time to read everyone posts in ever thread so I let my intuition guide me to what is relevant to me. This is the type of thread that I will read through from beginning to end cause I know it is beneficial for me. But first allow me to put in my two cents. It is as simple as flesh and spirit. As long as you are flesh you need the ego cause without it death comes quickly. Cause of the 3D nature of this reality we need ego to survive! If I let go of my ego I would end up nailed to the cross quicker than Christ! So I don't think getting rid of the ego is possible if you want to live in this reality for any amount of time. No but learning to control your ego through spirit is the best you can do which is at times really hard to do.
Living by spirit is the best way to keep the ego in check. No matter how spiritually advanced you may think you are the ego is right there with you til the death of the flesh at least this 3D version. There is no need for it then. Transcending ego is to leave this 3D plane.

You may want to read this post my friend: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=21182&viewfull=1#post21182

Namaste ~ Dan

[John101]

I am reading Eckhart Tolle The power of now and it certainly is helping me understand all that garbage that goes on in my head.

[truthseekerdan]

I am reading Eckhart Tolle The power of now and it certainly is helping me understand all that garbage that goes on in my head.

I wouldn't say garbage, but confusion...;)

Happy reading my friend. :)

[John101]

Hey you should be in my head.;)
When you got a big argument going on in there about nothing you gotta laugh because it is complete garbage. at least I’m aware of it now being the watcher.

[9eagle9]

Hey you should be in my head.;)
When you got a big argument going on in there about nothing you gotta laugh because it is complete garbage. at least I’m aware of it now being the watcher.

Lol. You certainly get to hear and see a lot more when you take on the observer role rather than the participant.

[greybeard]

Hey you should be in my head.;)
When you got a big argument going on in there about nothing you gotta laugh because it is complete garbage. at least I’m aware of it now being the watcher.

Lol. You certainly get to hear and see a lot more when you take on the observer role rather than the participant.

Hi guys take it one stage further and be aware that you are observing.
You are aware of observing.
Awareness is actually what you are not the witness/observer.
Awareness continues when there is no form to witness through.
Observing witnessing is not volitional it happens all by itself, You do not chose for it to happen.

The biggest obstacle to enlightenment according to Ramesh Baleskar is the notion that we are the doer.

This is very hard for the ego to take.

Ramesh also said.
God wrote the play (of consciousness)
God produced the play
God directed the play
God every actor in the play
God the witness of the play


So we as aspects of God have free will as to how we play the part.

We can scream and protest this isn't right every time we don't get our own way or the world is not as we think it should be, as the the egoic self.

Or we can start to realize exactly what we are, the witness, the awareness, the Self
We can read books like The Power of Now and grow in to the realization of Self.

Eckhart says "No self no problem" and " There is never a problem in the moment"

The spiritual energy in any book by any enlightened writer will lift the consciousness of the reader.
It called entrainment
It change your auric field.
Its worth it.

Chris
Namaste

[John101]

Hey you should be in my head.;)
When you got a big argument going on in there about nothing you gotta laugh because it is complete garbage. at least I’m aware of it now being the watcher.

Lol. You certainly get to hear and see a lot more when you take on the observer role rather than the participant.

Hi guys take it one stage further and be aware that you are observing.
You are aware of observing.
Awareness is actually what you are not the witness/observer.
Awareness continues when there is no form to witness through.
Observing witnessing is not volitional it happens all by itself, You do not chose for it to happen.

The biggest obstacle to enlightenment according to Ramesh Baleskar is the notion that we are the doer.

This is very hard for the ego to take.

Ramesh also said.
God wrote the play (of consciousness)
God produced the play
God directed the play
God every actor in the play
God the witness of the play


So we as aspects of God have free will as to how we play the part.

We can scream and protest this isn't right every time we don't get our own way or the world is not as we think it should be, as the the egoic self.

Or we can start to realize exactly what we are, the witness, the awareness, the Self
We can read books like The Power of Now and grow in to the realization of Self.

Eckhart says "No self no problem" and " There is never a problem in the moment"

The spiritual energy in any book by any enlightened writer will lift the consciousness of the reader.
It called entrainment
It change your auric field.
Its worth it.

Chris
Namaste

I look forward to getting to that stage.
At the moment I am taking it very slow, this is new for me and quite fun too.
It is easy to see now how this has influenced my mood and just how silly that really is, now being the observer I can smile and not take the thoughts serious at all. :p

Many thanks again Chris for recommending this.

John

[PathWalker]

I haven't read everything in this thread but for me the best description of ego was from Eckhart Tolle and his books. After reading, (listening) his books and conferences it is the most logical thing until now.


I do not know what he wrote. I can tell from experience, I know I acquired knowledge when I teach it.
So this is a great place to try out and express your wisdom, with us.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Hey you should be in my head.;)
When you got a big argument going on in there about nothing you gotta laugh because it is complete garbage. at least I’m aware of it now being the watcher.

Putting names and attributes to yourself are just another aspect of the ego.:evil:

[John101]

I am working on transcending, I have a long way to go I'm sure. :nod:

[PathWalker]

Hey you should be in my head.;)
When you got a big argument going on in there about nothing you gotta laugh because it is complete garbage. at least I’m aware of it now being the watcher.

Lol. You certainly get to hear and see a lot more when you take on the observer role rather than the participant.

Hi guys take it one stage further and be aware that you are observing.
You are aware of observing.
Awareness is actually what you are not the witness/observer.
Awareness continues when there is no form to witness through.
Observing witnessing is not volitional it happens all by itself, You do not chose for it to happen.

Chris
Namaste

This is all sound entangled and tricky it is not.
You start to awaken/healing to your path when you start to observe yourself without judgment.
In law of one (http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx) there are four stages to healing this is the first and most difficult.

It is humbling and requires effort. I am still work in progress.
The ego is required and essential part of evolution.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I am working on transcending, I have a long way to go I'm sure. :nod:

Transcending could be instant, it is a matter of choice.
The lessons and growing is in the path you take. Therefore you chose the path that serves you the best.

[John101]

I'm a little out of my depth here, I was just looking for a starting point.

[PathWalker]

Letting go of Ego is a very hard lesson to learn. Very hard, I experience it myself. :) But despite its difficulty, it appears to be the only lesson if it is your goal to achieve peace. Or enlightenment. It is the only lesson if your goal is to reach that place where you can truly say: "I don't want to be better than you; I want to be better than me."

And so not only is letting the ego die a hard process, it is also a scary process. Very scary. But losing the ego is also a wonderful thing. Losing ego can bring us closer to our hearts. It can enable us to feel more than we have ever felt. It can enable us to see ourselves in a totally different way and in doing so, find new dimensions to ourselves. The loss of ego may give us the sense that we are living closer to our souls. Until we start the process of turning down and finally shutting off the voice of Ego, the voice of our hearts cannot be heard.

One way to start this process is to recognize when your Ego coming into play. Whether it is by you wanting to correct someone, explain that their views are incorrect (in your mind anyway), if you feel anger at someone for their actions towards you. Then acknowledge these feelings to yourself, be it confusion, anger, hatred, or frustration, what ever they may be. Just feel them flowing through your body. Do not act. Just feel. Stop yourself from reacting. From passing judgment. Just let it be. Gradually overtime the Ego will not be as strong and will start to loosen it's hold over your heart. This not only makes you aware of how often your Ego comes into play, it will also amaze you how quickly you start to feel different in yourself. How the peace within you grows as your Ego diminishes.

With Love and Blessings, :wub:

Dan

I read the above and with full respect I disagree.
I find the ego the construct of separation from oneness. Each ego has to emphasis its uniqueness and distinguish itself from the rest somehow.
WE have the ego in order to learn the lessons of duality.
If I do not posses an ego, I finished my incarnated lesson.

One might claim ego-less but that is just another trick of the ego.
As we evolve the masters teach us to integrate the ego as part of our evolution. When you fight it you feed it. The native American parable of the love wolf and hate wolf (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3539-updates-on-the-Israeli-Palestinian-conflict&p=31521&viewfull=1#post31521). Then again who do you feed. They are both always there in your heart (the ego and the soul).

[greybeard]

I'm a little out of my depth here, I was just looking for a starting point.

Try page one Laughing

Im sorry I could not resist John

If all else fails just be kind to all life including your own no matter what

Chris
Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Letting go of Ego is a very hard lesson to learn. Very hard, I experience it myself. :) But despite its difficulty, it appears to be the only lesson if it is your goal to achieve peace. Or enlightenment. It is the only lesson if your goal is to reach that place where you can truly say: "I don't want to be better than you; I want to be better than me."

And so not only is letting the ego die a hard process, it is also a scary process. Very scary. But losing the ego is also a wonderful thing. Losing ego can bring us closer to our hearts. It can enable us to feel more than we have ever felt. It can enable us to see ourselves in a totally different way and in doing so, find new dimensions to ourselves. The loss of ego may give us the sense that we are living closer to our souls. Until we start the process of turning down and finally shutting off the voice of Ego, the voice of our hearts cannot be heard.

One way to start this process is to recognize when your Ego coming into play. Whether it is by you wanting to correct someone, explain that their views are incorrect (in your mind anyway), if you feel anger at someone for their actions towards you. Then acknowledge these feelings to yourself, be it confusion, anger, hatred, or frustration, what ever they may be. Just feel them flowing through your body. Do not act. Just feel. Stop yourself from reacting. From passing judgment. Just let it be. Gradually overtime the Ego will not be as strong and will start to loosen it's hold over your heart. This not only makes you aware of how often your Ego comes into play, it will also amaze you how quickly you start to feel different in yourself. How the peace within you grows as your Ego diminishes.

With Love and Blessings, :wub:

Dan

I read the above and with full respect I disagree.
I find the ego the construct of separation from oneness. Each ego has to emphasis its uniqueness and distinguish itself from the rest somehow.
WE have the ego in order to learn the lessons of duality.
If I do not posses an ego, I finished my incarnated lesson.

One might claim ego-less but that is just another trick of the ego.
As we evolve the masters teach us to integrate the ego as part of our evolution. When you fight it you feed it. The native American parable of the love wolf and hate wolf (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3539-updates-on-the-Israeli-Palestinian-conflict&p=31521&viewfull=1#post31521). Then again who do you feed. They are both always there in your heart (the ego and the soul).

Dear PathWalker,

Could you explain better your thought processes, and how you came to disagree with my post?

Thank you...:confused:

[PathWalker]

Beloved truthseekerdan,

I am ready to explain again.

We are here in the physical body to learn and experience free will. (Which is by itself an illusion. Since we are all parts of the one/creator/god/nature/cosmos/logos... and we are doing its will. The master though/will is to experience creation.)

1. In order to experience will we need to have some choices. Hence duality matrix is created, the game of incarnations and polarities of the 3rd density (good/bad, male/female, hot/cold, light/dark...)
2. In order to experience free will we need to forget who we are and be separated from the one. If we stayed with the one spirit and in oneness conscious then our choices would be biased and not free.
3. In order to be separated from the one we had to:

1. Disconnect from our soul infomation
2. Create a unique emotional construct that will separate us from the oneness consciousness

The ego is the unique emotional construct that keeps us separated from each other. Uniquely distinguished from each member on the planet.
The ego is required in order to transcend the 3rd density of duality/polarization.

When you fight it you feed it, when you harmonize/integrate it you tame it.
Killing the ego is killing you path and your progress.

All the statements of no ego, humility and other nice virtues are just aspects of the ego. Albeit tamed.

[truthseekerdan]

Beloved truthseekerdan,

I am ready to explain again.

We are here in the physical body to learn and experience free will. (Which is by itself an illusion. Since we are all parts of the one/creator/god/nature/cosmos/logos... and we are doing its will. The master though/will is to experience creation.)

1. In order to experience will we need to have some choices. Hence duality matrix is created, the game of incarnations and polarities of the 3rd density (good/bad, male/female, hot/cold, light/dark...)
2. In order to experience free will we need to forget who we are and be separated from the one. If we stayed with the one spirit and in oneness conscious then our choices would be biased and not free.
3. In order to be separated from the one we had to:

1. Disconnect from our soul infomation
2. Create a unique emotional construct that will separate us from the oneness consciousness

The ego is the unique emotional construct that keeps us separated from each other. Uniquely distinguished from each member on the planet.
The ego is required in order to transcend the 3rd density of duality/polarization.

When you fight it you feed it, when you harmonize/integrate it you tame it.
Killing the ego is killing you path and your progress.

All the statements of no ego, humility and other nice virtues are just aspects of the ego. Albeit tamed.

I believe you did not take time to read my post carefully enough. ;)
I did not mention that one has to "kill the ego", but to diminish it thru the understanding on how it works, -- that means to observe it and try to control it, because even though you are born with it, doesn't mean that you don't have power to control it.

Your opposition to my point helps clarify it… Thanks!!

Namaste ~ Dan

[PathWalker]

Belvoed truthseekerdan,

I was referencing in the previous posts to the following section from your post.

And so not only is letting the ego die a hard process, it is also a scary process. Very scary. But losing the ego is also a wonderful thing. Losing ego can bring us closer to our hearts. It can enable us to feel more than we have ever felt. It can enable us to see ourselves in a totally different way and in doing so, find new dimensions to ourselves. The loss of ego may give us the sense that we are living closer to our souls. Until we start the process of turning down and finally shutting off the voice of Ego, the voice of our hearts cannot be heard.

My philosophy is of integration and harmonizing the ego. Your views and opinions are cherished.
The path is not about philosophy but rather walking it.
It is about the difference between learning the map, to walking the path.
The wisdom is gained by experience.

Love and power
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

[truthseekerdan]

Belvoed truthseekerdan,

I was referencing in the previous posts to the following section from your post.

And so not only is letting the ego die a hard process, it is also a scary process. Very scary. But losing the ego is also a wonderful thing. Losing ego can bring us closer to our hearts. It can enable us to feel more than we have ever felt. It can enable us to see ourselves in a totally different way and in doing so, find new dimensions to ourselves. The loss of ego may give us the sense that we are living closer to our souls. Until we start the process of turning down and finally shutting off the voice of Ego, the voice of our hearts cannot be heard.

My philosophy is of integration and harmonizing the ego. Your views and opinions are cherished.
The path is not about philosophy but rather walking it.
It is about the difference between learning the map, to walking the path.
The wisdom is gained by experience.

Love and power
Joy and happiness
PathWalker

Putting the ego aside now, ;) -- what I meant by "letting the ego die" is a metaphor, and it was in reference to let one ego's diminish (subside).

Only great way-showers like Jesus, etc.; did not have an ego, because they knew who they are. They were here among us to help the humanity evolve spiritually...

Please read these two (2) posts in order if you did not have a chance to read them yet.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=18792&viewfull=1#post18792

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=22792&viewfull=1#post22792

Thanks,

♡ Dan

[greybeard]

All opinions are correct as they reflect different levels of spiritual understanding.
What is appropriate and correct for one level is not appropriate for another.

Dr Hawkins book "Transcending the Levels of Consciousness/ Stairway to Enlightenment" states at the level of 500 on his map of consciousness that there is a massive change of consciousness, a change of paradigm. The person moves from an intellectual understanding of what love is about to being love. The change is so profound that you literally see things differently now you think in terms of context and essence rather than content.
The brain physiology changes Kundalini energy becomes noticeably active.
At level 550 unconditional love begins and states of bliss appear for no reason.
At level 565 the shidis manifest spontaneous healing for people in your presence.
600 is the first level of enlightenment.
Christ consciousness 1000.

So we are now evolving as a species beyond duality, beyond the hold of the ego, we are transcending the ego because at least for some it is no longer required. That which helped us has now become and obstacle to be released to the loving care of God.
Those who transcend the ego will become the spiritual teachers of the future,
Eckhart Tolle has transcended ego if you read his book its in there. He functions in the world beautifully and lives a very full life with his partner Kim English. I have had the pleasure of being in their company for over an hour in Findhorn after a retreat was over.
So your ego will tell you its needed to live a full life, Its fighting for survival, it is a con artist.
In the early stages yes its helpful but anyone reading this kind of material does no need it.
Namaste

[Hybrid5226]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hynAE-7gMOg

Greybeard
Hi
I wanted to thank you for the thread an I had to share this you tube video with you .

It brought tears to my eyes . Out of the mouth of Babes.

Peace.

[greybeard]

"You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind." -- Mahatma Gandhi

[truthseekerdan]

"Stillness means 'being free from thoughts' and yet aware." ~ Sri Ramana Maharshi

♡

[greybeard]

Ramana
You can tell how far you have progressed spiritually by the degree of silence in the mind.

chris

[truthseekerdan]

This is a clip from "Who's Driving the Dreambus?", a feature-length documentary exploring life's most profound mystery, Who am I?
Winner of the Insight Film Festival in Manchester, England -- www.whosdrivingthedreambus.com


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7S9AtKCv24

Thanks to AlkaMyst for making this full documentary available at this link (http://theavalonfiles.com/secret/secure/Whos_Driving_The_Dreambus/index.html) :thumb:

♡

[9eagle9]

I want to watch that video, I keep putting it aside, off, in favor of other things, but it keeps popping back up in my field of vision.

Has anyone heard from Ernie, I sure hope he is doing okay.

The lingering issue I have with my ego is other people (ha ha there are no other people) but actually people who are constantly phoning, emailing me with doom, destruction and disaster. "I'm worried about you, I feel something on you, I feel like your in danger, check your energy fields, get a crystal, do a ritual, hang up side down in your closet like a bat." I feel like this is being imposed on me all this checking in. My mentor told me that while I was doing ego softening work, other people's egos would annoy me, I sorta holed up in the boonies here for a several months to get away from it all. But I still find all this clammering of how I'm getting ready to step off the cliff annoying. I've tactfully tried to say "If you go looking for trouble you'll find it. " But I suppose its more like, can't you just email me and ask me how I am? Any body ever get this?

[PathWalker]

All opinions are correct as they reflect different levels of spiritual understanding.
What is appropriate and correct for one level is not appropriate for another.

Dr Hawkins book "Transcending the Levels of Consciousness/ Stairway to Enlightenment" states at the level of 500 on his map of consciousness that there is a massive change of consciousness, a change of paradigm. The person moves from an intellectual understanding of what love is about to being love. The change is so profound that you literally see things differently now you think in terms of context and essence rather than content.
The brain physiology changes Kundalini energy becomes noticeably active.
At level 550 unconditional love begins and states of bliss appear for no reason.
At level 565 the shidis manifest spontaneous healing for people in your presence.
600 is the first level of enlightenment.
Christ consciousness 1000.

So we are now evolving as a species beyond duality, beyond the hold of the ego, we are transcending the ego because at least for some it is no longer required. That which helped us has now become and obstacle to be released to the loving care of God.
Those who transcend the ego will become the spiritual teachers of the future,
Eckhart Tolle has transcended ego if you read his book its in there. He functions in the world beautifully and lives a very full life with his partner Kim English. I have had the pleasure of being in their company for over an hour in Findhorn after a retreat was over.
So your ego will tell you its needed to live a full life, Its fighting for survival, it is a con artist.
In the early stages yes its helpful but anyone reading this kind of material does no need it.
Namaste

Greetings and thanks for the wisdom,
I fully adhere to the different aspect and stages of spiritual understanding.
Many spiritual paradigm are centered about fighting and subduing desire/ego/pleasure.
All are correct in the sense that GrayBeard articulated.
Many of us are programmed to evolve by following the polarized/dualistic way of thinking. "Identify the problem - eliminate the problem". With the 3 policies:
1. Fight, 2. Flight, 3. Ignore/postpone (sub class of 2).

While we all agree that the ego is an obstacle for spiritual evolution. Not all agree that we need to eliminate the ego. As we evolve spiritually we learn the forth way. Which is about negotiation and integration of problem. So that it is supporting required evolution.

It is also understood that early stages of awakening require the "Identify the problem - eliminate the problem". In order to identify and promote introspection.
As we progress we learn that fighting the beast is feeding it. And the only way to subdue the ego is by letting go control.
As we learn to let go, the ego is in great stress and we learn how to release the stress and develop the "spiritual trust", that all is OK.

A nice metaphor is the meditative practice to quiet the mind (another practice of let go). This practice requires the introspection, acknowledgment, release, focus and patience.
When starting this practice we learn introspection and focus with much frustration. This is the fight mode that we need to learn to release in order to progress.

Hope you follow my entangled thoughts.

Joy and happiness
PathWalker

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi
I'd say I'm sorry for whatever disturbance I may have caused in the "force", but I am not.
I shouldered that pack...and almost fell over backwards!
I realized something, folks. I'm not half as advanced as I thought I was. I have been humbled. Those things in the pack are ego bagage, things I could not even consider leaving without.
Notice I didn't think of pencil and paper, or a good book or two, or a picture of my loved ones, or my totem bag. Blah, blah, blah.
My mind is a storm. But my heart is ablaze.
I have realized many other deep and personal issues since my last post. I do not feel I have much more to add, here or on any other thread, including my own.
I will be silent for the foreseeable future. This poem of mine is the best I can put how I feel right now:

The Circle in the Dot

There is a circle in the dot
And some would say
There is a dot in the circle
Not the other way.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
The dot must be spherical.
Have a good day!
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
The circle must be small indeed.
There is a circle in the dot
of every line,
Whether straight or round,
thick, red or fine.
There is a circle in the dot
of all that's real,
More meaning and depth,
the more you feel.
There is a circle in the dot
Where vast vistas contract,
Where corners expand
And fiction becomes fact.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
What dot, what circle?
Then go their way.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
The dot was the circle,
Fate's hand in the clay.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
So, what's you're point?

[gripreaper]

Hello Chris,

Now that the Charles material has settled down a bit, I feel drawn to this thread, albeit I find it challenging to know it's evolution without reading through many of the posts. Could you do a quick synopsis?

[PathWalker]

Hello Chris,

Now that the Charles material has settled down a bit, I feel drawn to this thread, albeit I find it challenging to know it's evolution without reading through many of the posts. Could you do a quick synopsis?

Me too please?

[greybeard]

Hello Chris,

Now that the Charles material has settled down a bit, I feel drawn to this thread, albeit I find it challenging to know it's evolution without reading through many of the posts. Could you do a quick synopsis?

Me too please?

The ego was necessary as part of our evolution.
We needed duality so we could discern good from not so good, poison from edible.
I we had no ego we would not have survived long enough to get this far.

Now we know the fire is hot, walking in font of buses a bad idea. its in our genes, we dont have to be told, we are aware of what is healthy overall.
So as we evolve we go through the different stages each one leads us to the next, we are not all at the same stage not all in the same class

Eventually we hear of enlightenment the ego become the spiritual ego, it wants it.
That take us so far then we realise that in order to go to the next stage we have to begin letting go of selfish traits at that point the ego goes into rebellion, it senses its demise.
There is no turning back now.
Humility begins to surface we realize that we cant do it now unaided and Gods help is sought.


So now read from page one Laughing

Much love Chris

[9eagle9]

As it above Ernie, so it is below. Glad to see you here and Be-ing. Awakening isn't easy. We are shown this daily daily daily in our lives how hard awakening can be because it is easier to stay asleep. We are shown this any morning where we have to leave our nice warm bed, our dreams (illusions) and step into the reality. But after you are up and about, and have had your coffee, and watched the sunrise you know that being awake is actually much better than being asleep. And we've had our moments where we look at the clock and go back to sleep a little longer.

Its the getting out of bed part that is hard.

To paraphrase an old song 'Waking up is hard to do." oo-oooo.

[greybeard]

Hi
I'd say I'm sorry for whatever disturbance I may have caused in the "force", but I am not.
I shouldered that pack...and almost fell over backwards!
I realized something, folks. I'm not half as advanced as I thought I was. I have been humbled. Those things in the pack are ego bagage, things I could not even consider leaving without.
Notice I didn't think of pencil and paper, or a good book or two, or a picture of my loved ones, or my totem bag. Blah, blah, blah.
My mind is a storm. But my heart is ablaze.
I have realized many other deep and personal issues since my last post. I do not feel I have much more to add, here or on any other thread, including my own.
I will be silent for the foreseeable future. This poem of mine is the best I can put how I feel right now:

The Circle in the Dot

There is a circle in the dot
And some would say
There is a dot in the circle
Not the other way.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
The dot must be spherical.
Have a good day!
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
The circle must be small indeed.
There is a circle in the dot
of every line,
Whether straight or round,
thick, red or fine.
There is a circle in the dot
of all that's real,
More meaning and depth,
the more you feel.
There is a circle in the dot
Where vast vistas contract,
Where corners expand
And fiction becomes fact.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
What dot, what circle?
Then go their way.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
The dot was the circle,
Fate's hand in the clay.
There is a circle in the dot
and some would say
So, what's you're point?

hi Ernie very pleased to see you.
You contribute much to this thread.

I can only speak for me,

I had to get throug the dificulties read all the mind stuff do what ever I did to get to the point of knowing

I can keep what I want and let the rest go


It like the Indian sitting in the train with the bundle on his head complaining about the weigh of his load.
The train is carrying him and his baggage whether he is aware of it or not.
Footsteps in the sand a great metaphor

God caries me, some time I am aware of that---- and after all I did ask him to.

Sometimes my willfulness gets in the way and I pick up the baggage again

Much love and prayers for you my friend

Chris

[Lettherebelight]

If one is a sincere soul, God will always make sure you get a cosmic slap as soon as you act from the false ego (I am such and such, I am knowledgeable, I, I, I...) The slap is a good sign, you're on the right track.

The false ego ever beguiles and entices, it's only when we recognize that we are eternal servants of the servants of the servants of God that we know our real ego, who we really are.

When we know that, then we can get on with the business of finding out who God is.

[gripreaper]

Thanks for your synopsis Chris.


The ego was necessary as part of our evolution.
We needed duality so we could discern good from not so good, poison from edible.
I we had no ego we would not have survived long enough to get this far.

That's for sure. As we evolved from the reptilian brainstem and developed a neo-cortex and hippocampus in the brain it was for survival and the evolutionary changes.


Eventually we hear of enlightenment the ego become the spiritual ego, it wants it.

So the "ego" is only part of the animal instincts that are motivated purely by survival and hedonism?


That take us so far then we realize that in order to go to the next stage we have to begin letting go of selfish traits at that point the ego goes into rebellion, it senses its demise.
There is no turning back now.

This is the part I don't quite get, the idea of "letting go" of the ego. If we take and view the entire cosmos from the level of the quantum field of energetics, where energy can neither be created or destroyed but forms and transforms, I see the ego as still being very useful and a part of what we are evolving into. The "ego" is the lower chakra energies which I would suggest unite the upper chakras and are not to be severed and thrown away.


Humility begins to surface we realize that we cant do it now unaided and Gods help is sought.

The connotation of a "God" is an archetype for us to symbolize the energetics and predisposes that this archetype is outside ourselves and is an "other" in duality. I don't see petitioning an outside archetype to come to help me because I can't ascend on my own smacks of religious programming and conditioning and to me is part of an old a dying paradigm.

So, in conclusion, we need the ego, it is part of our energetics, it joins with the celestial energies in ascension, is not inherently evil and does not need to be transcended. Enlightenment is a continuing daily process and is not a destination to be reached, but is the ability to hold light, focus it and charge and discharge it. We all do that every day, so we cannot be NOT of the light or in the light. It is inherent in our energy.

Am I on track?

[greybeard]

Yes you are on track if you think that God dosent exist or lives out side you.
God is in every atom and therfore in side you

In the main yes you have it there is a audio page 36 I think that you would find interesting.

Coast to coast interview energy and 2012

Keep reading my fiend

[Nortreb]

If one is a sincere soul, God will always make sure you get a cosmic slap as soon as you act from the false ego (I am such and such, I am knowledgeable, I, I, I...) The slap is a good sign, you're on the right track.

The false ego ever beguiles and entices, it's only when we recognize that we are eternal servants of the servants of the servants of God that we know our real ego, who we really are.

When we know that, then we can get on with the business of finding out who God is.

Perfect, Lettherebelight!
This relates to the hidden aspects of martial art. The real opponent is the person seen in the mirror. When this is realized by the student of the arts, there is no opponent. There is just completion and no need for physical violence.

Peace

[gripreaper]

Chris,

Looked at the David Sereda interview on Coast to Coast. Yes, he understands the energetic anomalies which are ushering in the paradigm shift into ascended consciousness. Here is the most recent synopsis of this phenomenon from both a scientific and spiritual perspective. It's two hours but jammed packed with truth and current evidence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRrKi99mno&feature=related

[RedeZra]

it's like

lifting a veil from a light

ah it's all bright


the remarkable thing is

we weave these veils

hehe

[greybeard]

it's like

lifting a veil from a light

ah it's all bright


the remarkable thing is

we weave these veils

hehe

Where the heaven were you when I needed you. laughing

Well if Iput my head above the parapet then I deserve to be shot at

Great to see you here in poetic mood
Chris

[Beren]

it's like

lifting a veil from a light

ah it's all bright


the remarkable thing is

we weave these veils

hehe

Where the heaven were you when I needed you. laughing

Well if Iput my head above the parapet then I deserve to be shot at

Great to see you here in poetic mood
Chris


hehe

He`s been around ...
Like all of us non noise participants...

[genorose]

dear greybeard
i hope you are well as i am
what am i - conscious self
do you plan to retire in inverness -if i am allowed to ask such questions
do you still practice as a psychiatrist in inverness
if so you could be my practicioner when i visit inverness soon from australia
i looked up psychiatrists in inverness and there are a lot of them
but you might be the only spiritual one
i am mid 60s
maybe looking for some voluntary work in your org
yours most sincerly
genorose in oz

[RedeZra]

hehe

He`s been around ...
Like all of us non noise participants...


I can make noise too ; )

---


the gift of God is life

while the wages of the world is death


He did not come to fool us

He came to guide us


so when the night comes


http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu88/elelavi/sunset6.jpg


his Name still lingers

above the earth

like a guiding star


so the sun never sets

on one who believes

[greybeard]

dear greybeard
i hope you are well as i am
what am i - conscious self
do you plan to retire in inverness -if i am allowed to ask such questions
do you still practice as a psychiatrist in inverness
if so you could be my practicioner when i visit inverness soon from australia
i looked up psychiatrists in inverness and there are a lot of them
but you might be the only spiritual one
i am mid 60s
maybe looking for some voluntary work in your org
yours most sincerly
genorose in oz

Im fine thanks.
I tried to PM you but you cant receive them yet.
I wasent a psychiatrist that quite different from what I did.
Happily retired. I quit ten year ago and just went with the flow.
Frankly you would get as much out of reading "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle on of the finest self help and spiritual books I have ever read.
Regard Chris

[The Mad spirtualist]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

[greybeard]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

Great to have you here, go get your friends.
We could have a spiritual café here.
Chris

[greybeard]

Chris,

Looked at the David Sereda interview on Coast to Coast. Yes, he understands the energetic anomalies which are ushering in the paradigm shift into ascended consciousness. Here is the most recent synopsis of this phenomenon from both a scientific and spiritual perspective. It's two hours but jammed packed with truth and current evidence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRrKi99mno&feature=related

Raising consciousness is paramount to the survival of a free human race watch the video please and ones on page 36.

People are being distracted from investigating life saving scientific fact.
Looking for truth?
These videos from scientists, who are also spiritual, contain all we need to know about past present and possible future.

Chris

[The Mad spirtualist]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

I want to discuss this further with those interested by I'm still digesting and connecting.

[galactica]

All things are within you, how can you possibly reject something?

[greybeard]

All things are within you, how can you possibly reject something?

Alcoholism was within me, probably genetic.
I had to reject my addictive nature or die.
My nature is separate from me, I do not have to accept, I can change conditioning.
I can reveal my true self to me which is beyond all sefish actions, needs, wants and desires.
Still work i progress
Its a matter of free will, a matter of choice
Thanks for the question though.

C

[truthseekerdan]

Chris,

Looked at the David Sereda interview on Coast to Coast. Yes, he understands the energetic anomalies which are ushering in the paradigm shift into ascended consciousness. Here is the most recent synopsis of this phenomenon from both a scientific and spiritual perspective. It's two hours but jammed packed with truth and current evidence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRrKi99mno&feature=related

Raising consciousness is paramount to the survival of a free human race watch the video please and ones on page 36.

People are being distracted from investigating life saving scientific fact.
Looking for truth?
These videos from scientists, who are also spiritual, contain all we need to know about past present and possible future.

Chris

Dear all,

I watched this video (up to #8) however, did not resonated with me -- sorry had to be honest.

However, I do recommend the one with David Sereda (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?860-Enlightenment-The-Ego-what-is-it-How-to-transcend-it.&p=133286&viewfull=1#post133286) posted on this thread.

Love to all, ~ Dan ♥

[greybeard]

Nero Linguistic Programing
Is good to study as up till that came into being the medical profession studied everything that was wrong.
The founder Brander and Grindler looked at every therapy that produced beneficial results.
They studied the work of people like Erikson who was phenomenal successful.

In essence look at what works in your life with gratitude and the rest drops away.
Spiritual and self help books say much the same thing.
You can keep what you want and let go of everything that you dont want
Chris

Ps I would like to personally thank Bill for having the foresight to provide this forum free of charge.
It is a great resource for all, covering many interesting and life supporting topics.

Chris

[PathWalker]

All things are within you, how can you possibly reject something?

Alcoholism was within me, probably genetic.
I had to reject my addictive nature or die.
My nature is separate from me, I do not have to accept, I can change conditioning.
I can reveal my true self to me which is beyond all sefish actions, needs, wants and desires.
Still work i progress
Its a matter of free will, a matter of choice
Thanks for the question though.

C

I follow up and solute your path,
I would add that a person requires.
Endurance, persistence, self discipline and more important love to self.

Though the love to self, one is able to love other. That is an authentic love.
While the more common love is egoistic: love others in order that they will love you.

Love to all
Joy and happiness
David

[PathWalker]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

I want to discuss this further with those interested by I'm still digesting and connecting.

Greetings Mad spiritualist,

I started reading the link above and stopped after few secs. I felt strong feeling of deception. I follow my heart and intuition.
I can guess what is the motivation of the article. Divide and conquer, eugenics, hierarchic separation and superiority.
I found many of those in the Jewish religion literature as well. And some Kaballah teaching that the goyim (gentiles) have no soul/spirit.

Follow the path of the control mechanism, and you get it. Any "spiritual" teaching that is about division and superiority is polarized by the service to self. I do not go there, I was there few life times. I am glad I am able to identify the material and the energy.

Every atom of creation has the essence of the creator in it. While only souls have the power to create. It is also postulated that only in the 3rd density souls have the free will. You have the free will to consider everything there is.

Also a note about judgment and mind control. Judgment is critical for survival, and the illusion of separation/individuality/ego.
Transcending the ego, requires transcending judgment as well.
In addition, in order to have the experience and free will, we (souls) need to have the dark side/ light side polarity (STS/STO). So there are souls in both camps, with equal and opposing powers. Both sides are equally honored in the game. Once a person transcend the polarity game she/he may proceed.

My personal teacher claims that some souls are embedded in non human natural entities. Animals, plants, rocks, streams...

Good luck, in your path.

[sleepydumpling]

hi all i have been reading the power of now and practising the power of now, two wonderful books also been listening to
awakening in the now on cd and they really do resonate with me .
I want to thank you greybeard from the bottom of my heart for mentioning eckhart tolle and bringing him to my attention.
I am starting to become more aware of my thoughts now and still get caught up in them
but find as soon as i am aware they just fizzle out and i am a lot happier.
even had people where I work tell me off for being to happy, which makes me laugh.
I am beginning to see how much the ego gets in the way .
have a great day everyone

[The Mad spirtualist]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

I want to discuss this further with those interested by I'm still digesting and connecting.

Greetings Mad spiritualist,

I started reading the link above and stopped after few secs. I felt strong feeling of deception. I follow my heart and intuition.
I can guess what is the motivation of the article. Divide and conquer, eugenics, hierarchic separation and superiority.
I found many of those in the Jewish religion literature as well. And some Kaballah teaching that the goyim (gentiles) have no soul/spirit.

Follow the path of the control mechanism, and you get it. Any "spiritual" teaching that is about division and superiority is polarized by the service to self. I do not go there, I was there few life times. I am glad I am able to identify the material and the energy.

Every atom of creation has the essence of the creator in it. While only souls have the power to create. It is also postulated that only in the 3rd density souls have the free will. You have the free will to consider everything there is.

Also a note about judgment and mind control. Judgment is critical for survival, and the illusion of separation/individuality/ego.
Transcending the ego, requires transcending judgment as well.
In addition, in order to have the experience and free will, we (souls) need to have the dark side/ light side polarity (STS/STO). So there are souls in both camps, with equal and opposing powers. Both sides are equally honored in the game. Once a person transcend the polarity game she/he may proceed.

My personal teacher claims that some souls are embedded in non human natural entities. Animals, plants, rocks, streams...

Good luck, in your path.

Hey Pathwalker the best thing you can do is follow your intuition! So don't let me convince you it is good for you if you don't feel it is. But I will say a few seconds may not have been enough of a read to judge this material. It is very out of the box thinking combined with very logical and analytical study of an array of subjects, if your not ready for it then perhaps that is why you felt the need to leave or it may not fit into your path or journey at all or at this time.

From the way you talk I believe you would like a lot of his material, perhaps this particular article did not resonate with you. He has a Q&A section which is quite amazing. He explains free will very well! He talks a lot about STS and STO.There is so much material on his site anyone could find something to relate too. This guy has done a lot of research and has a lot of knowledge on stuff that just is not that available. He is like a Charles in a sense rare knowledge but more like David Icke in his approach.

[Ernie Nemeth]

BAD MAN

The bad man is coming. He’s dark and he’s mean.
He casts a shadow over me.
I am him. Me is he.
No, he is not me. He just pretends to be.
It’s the shadow you see, that he casts over me.
The shadow blinds me, so that I cannot see.
I am alone in the dark.
I nasty,
I callous,
I dangerous me.

[kinerkid]

Greybeard - Thank you for posting the David Sereda videos. I so appreciate when science can help explain/ back up faith and spirituality. It's not necessary but I find it adds a wonderful new depth. It also underscores that the most important work we can do is the internal work.

Thank you so much for the thread and to all who contribute to it. It's a blessing when I feel "stuck."

[greybeard]

BAD MAN

The bad man is coming. He’s dark and he’s mean.
He casts a shadow over me.
I am him. Me is he.
No, he is not me. He just pretends to be.
It’s the shadow you see, that he casts over me.
The shadow blinds me, so that I cannot see.
I am alone in the dark.
I nasty,
I callous,
I dangerous me.

Hi Ernie that is some poem
The rythmn reminds me of bad moon rising.
It would make a great song.

Hope life is improving for you my friend you are in my thoughts

Chris

[meeradas]

Funny, Chris - i immediately had the Bad Brains on my mind... a little difference to Creedence!
But you're right - it would make a great song (maybe it is one; hm, Ernie?).

Cheers

and now: back to topic.

[truthseekerdan]

I decided to include here the link to Eckhart Tolle's audio book "A New Earth". Hope it will be helpful for many. :love:

"Spiritual Teacher and author was born in Germany and educated at the Universities of London and Cambridge. At the age of twenty-nine a profound inner transformation radically changed the course of his life. The next few years were devoted to understanding, integrating and deepening that transformation, which marked the beginning of an intense inward journey. Later, he began to work in London with individuals and small groups as a counselor and spiritual teacher. Since 1995 he has lived in Vancouver, Canada."

vubMo3wWufU

Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vubMo3wWufU

[truthseekerdan]

The Right End Date by Carl Johan Calleman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_hFu2Q3kdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_hFu2Q3kdg

[slvrfx]

Calleman describes the end date being Oct. 28th of 2011, instead of the Dec. 21st 2012, because the 2012 date was a result of the Gregorian calender, that Pope Gregory came up with, not the Julian calendar that was the one used anciently by most of the world at the time the Mayan's came up with their calendar.

He has made the adjustments to compensate.

His book on the Mayan calender is excellent. He studied it for 30+ years.

[truthseekerdan]

Calleman describes the end date being Oct. 28th of 2011, instead of the Dec. 21st 2012, because the 2012 date was a result of the Gregorian calender, that Pope Gregory came up with, not the Julian calendar that was the one used anciently by most of the world at the time the Mayan's came up with their calendar.

He has made the adjustments to compensate.

His book on the Mayan calender is excellent. He studied it for 30+ years.

Fully agree :thumb:

[slvrfx]

One of the greatest, most knowledgeable of men, lecturing on the Mayan calendar, Ian Lungold.

He researched almost as long as Carl Calleman. They didn't know each other until fairly recent, and you can just imagine what happened when they started comparing notes!

16 part series of youtube videos.

Guaranteed you won't be able to stop watching!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEyZFbkvJjw


(What is happening, is beautiful beyond words.)

[gripreaper]

Chris,

Looked at the David Sereda interview on Coast to Coast. Yes, he understands the energetic anomalies which are ushering in the paradigm shift into ascended consciousness. Here is the most recent synopsis of this phenomenon from both a scientific and spiritual perspective. It's two hours but jammed packed with truth and current evidence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRrKi99mno&feature=related

Raising consciousness is paramount to the survival of a free human race watch the video please and ones on page 36.

People are being distracted from investigating life saving scientific fact.
Looking for truth?
These videos from scientists, who are also spiritual, contain all we need to know about past present and possible future.

Chris

Dear all,

I watched this video (up to #8) however, did not resonated with me -- sorry had to be honest.

Love to all, ~ Dan ♥

Dan, could you expand on what it was that did not resonate with you?

[truthseekerdan]

Dan, could you expand on what it was that did not resonate with you?

Although I may agree with most of what he's presenting, I believe that his material is actually bits and pieces collected from other not so 'scientifically correct' places. Maybe it's just my intuition, but I have better resonance with the works of Carl Calleman, Nassim Haramein, David Sereda and Marcel Messing. I would love for Bill or Kerry to be able to interview the first 3 mentioned in order.
No offense, but if you resonate with what Pane Andov is presenting, go with that and not with what I'm saying. I do respect your freedom of choice... :nod:

Namaste ~ Dan

[meeradas]

One never knows what it is - the triggering event that renders the ego zero.
Probably as many trigger events as there are individuals.
Maybe, this here (http://mother-agenda.narod.ru/) has one or the other in it for you. If not - intriguing read, anyways.

Enjoy

[9eagle9]

If you cook as badly as I do you get rendering of zero ego everyday....

Actually it occurred to me.... when you can manifest based in Source you've reduced , if momentarily, the ego to zero...it had nothing to do with whatever miracle it occurred.It's not so much the miracle occurred ,we acknowledge (know) a miracle occurred. Miracles always occurring that we don't see..Now we just have to work on getting our zero point moments into a sort of continuity....which I think may compare to singularity. That may even be a momentary shift in dimensional perception. We stand in a place that for a moment the ego doesn't exist.

[meeradas]

If you cook as badly as I do you get rendering of zero ego everyday

Haha! Gotta love that one.
- so true -
[though, same might bring an increase in ego to some... *throwing skillet*]

[gripreaper]

Dan, could you expand on what it was that did not resonate with you?

Although I may agree with most of what he's presenting, I believe that his material is actually bits and pieces collected from other not so 'scientifically correct' places. Maybe it's just my intuition, but I have better resonance with the works of Carl Calleman, Nassim Haramein, David Sereda and Marcel Messing. I would love for Bill or Kerry to be able to interview the first 3 mentioned in order.
No offense, but if you resonate with what Pane Andov is presenting, go with that and not with what I'm saying. I do respect your freedom of choice... :nod:

Namaste ~ Dan

I resonate with Carl Calleman quite extensively, as well as Nassim Haramein and David Sereda among many others too numerous to mention. One thing we can certainly agree on is that the energies are increasing exponentially, which are affecting everything in our solar system. The actual explanations as to how this is happening is of course open to debate , and I find that Pane Androv information does not contradict what the others you have sited explain.

It's a spiritual journey and we all chose to be on it, and I believe, once we go through the present transition we will have a totally new paradigm.

[sheddie]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

Thank you for posting that it makes a lot of sense and I for one am very happy to have cut myself off from someone who fits the description of a spiritless person. i am not sure I agree with the whole article but the description reasonated and prompted me to share....I hope you don't mind :o

Knowing her has made me the person I am today and for that I am truely grateful. It was a painful process and having a deeper understanding of what happened is very healing. Watching someone work who has such a massive ego and no empathy is an education!

This person is a teacher of many spiritual practices, she uses people's vulnerability. I used to think that I could help her.............:p

We live and learn :)

Greybeard I love this thread, I kept putting off coming here as I knew I needed time to digest it all...................I have started from the beginning but was pulled here....now I know why. ''

It's all good

much love x

[The Mad spirtualist]

I cook pretty good that must be why I have to work on my ego so much eh?

[The Mad spirtualist]

I was going to start a new thread but this is definitely related. This confirms everything in my life!!! I feel complete joy reading this knowing I am true and my labor has not been in vain.

Spiritless people (http://www.montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans)

Thank you for posting that it makes a lot of sense and I for one am very happy to have cut myself off from someone who fits the description of a spiritless person. i am not sure I agree with the whole article but the description reasonated and prompted me to share....I hope you don't mind :o

Knowing her has made me the person I am today and for that I am truely grateful. It was a painful process and having a deeper understanding of what happened is very healing. Watching someone work who has such a massive ego and no empathy is an education!

This person is a teacher of many spiritual practices, she uses people's vulnerability. I used to think that I could help her.............:p

We live and learn :)

Greybeard I love this thread, I kept putting off coming here as I knew I needed time to digest it all...................I have started from the beginning but was pulled here....now I know why. ''

It's all good

much love x

We pick up what we need from where ever it comes. That which resonates we keep that which doesn't we give back. That article resonated with me in so many ways. I don't not agree with all his assessments of the phenomenon. It help me make a lot of connections. This thread alone could be the only reason I'm here at Avalon.

[9eagle9]

I find the concept of a vessel being without a spirit interesting. That which reflects the soul is not present? I have a witnessed this sort of phenomenon, not sure if I agree with the mechanics of it. In holistic healing there's a term called soul loss, which is what soul retrieval or reclamation is based in-- the most intense form of that is labeled an exorcism. I never really agreed that someone had lost something particularly something as durable as a soul. In your typical exorcism its usually extraction of something the person created (construct) rather than something that was lost someplace or was imposed on them. People have even asked if involves excorcizing the ego but its more like shifting something the ego created from within usually built around some core value or wound. Not being able to shift the ego, I have to find the core value the ego constructed from.

Spiritual fragmentation or the spirit being blotted out by very dense ego constructs and filters. Rather than something being wrong with someone, something was shadowing their self to the extent that true authenticity could not be expressed. It was there, behind the filters but sometimes the filters or constructs were so dense you can't sense the spirit.Our source based selves aren't expressed because of the ego filters we have. Meaning the spirit is present but can't be expressed.

I suppose thats why I have issues about the term spiritual healing. The spirit isn't in need of healing, that which keeps its full expression needs to be brought down. I'm a spiritual counselor by trade until it occurred to me one day, that's really not a correct term. The spirit is not really in need of my counsel.

If you observe a mentally challenged person like a its more than apparent that they are projecting something more profound than your usual mental enabled person. The mind of mentally handicapped person isn't entirely present. There's not a whole lot of filters there on a mental (ego) level so you see sense this perfection in them that you don't feel quite as strongly in your usual people. They are quite authentic.

I wonder if this spiritlessness is over development of the mental body in others.

ACIM describes God not being present in the material world, save for that inner spark inside of us. Thinking along those lines it may well be possible the soul , that which is intimately a part of source, isn't present at all for all of us. However our spirit can strongly reflect the soul, the spirit being a mirror of the soul. But the spirit that reflects the soul is absent or rather densely shrouded. I mean SOMETHING animates us beyond just being able to exist and breath, so the question is quantity of animation? Spirited-ness?

Souls being equal and spirits perhaps not so much so, or rather not being able to be expressed fully?

This also reminds me of entropy and open and closed systems. Spiritlessness would be an excellent example of a closed system.

Interesting.

[greybeard]

Tony Parsons
Non duality


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0IiN4UnSQE&feature=related

[felixq78]

The Ego doesn't exist, it's a figment of it's own imagination and it's main objective is to prove that it's real by destroying the consciousness that it conceals.
Now how mad is that?
It will destroy itself just so it can prove its own existence, mad, mad, mad, totally out of its gourd !

[9eagle9]

Like how your ego says "it's just your ego."

(giggle)

[Ernie Nemeth]

It is nice to speak of non duality and such - to cloak oneself in the garment of transcendence.
The point is this: whomever is here, today in a body, has an ego. They can be the greatest master and speak the most gentle and serene words.
Or they can be the bag lady on the street corner ranting at ghosts only she can see.
Every one, no matter how much they may smilingly dismiss it, has an ego.
The ego is the body and the world it has made.
Luckily, the yearning for truth, the searching for it, calls forth healing. And this healing is upon us now in spades. The world we made will be torn assunder.
And the dawning of a new day, a new world, will rise from the ashes of the old. And even then it will be up to us to decide whether we allow the real world to arise, as given us by our Creator, or willfully make yet another disaster out of that potential.
The choice, as always is ours.
Peace

[greybeard]

Hi Enie you are correct as long as there is a person there is an ego.

Enlightenment leaves no person.
It is a state of oneness.
It cant be understood.
This video is the simplest explanation
Until enlightenment happens though the work of transcending ego brings a lot of peace of mind so a very valuable endeavor.
Transcending the ego does not mean killing the ego, just means going beyond its control over one.
Taming is good.
Enlightenment is purely by the grace of God.
The veil of ignorance is removed.
You cant earn it or make it happen.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FBFX39uEs&feature=player_embedded
Muzz put this video on Avalon here is appropriate too.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The last time I went through an episode, I used the wrong tactics.
I don't care if the dark side knows they are being successful against me.
In that light:
I ask for those Avalon members who read this and can pull themselves away from the newest controversy and who still believe in love, light and peace...
To pray for me.
I am not at a dark moment, my ego is in check. But I am having a crisis just the same. I am being shown something and I am not sure I understand what that is.
I am supposed to do something - to finally get something, a lesson I continually fail to hear.
Please pray I find clarity and choose the proper course of action.
Love,
Ernie

[Jayke]

A story I like about enlightenment, forgive me if it's already been posted (not had time to catch up on all the posts):

A young prince is given all the earthly offerings that life could afford, women, servants, riches,
fame yet their is one thing he seeks more than anything else...Enlightenment.
He travels the lands in his quest for this most holy of holy treasures, he seeks kings and queens,
rich men and poor, hermits and mystics, anyone who might give him the answers he seeks.
till one day he hears word of an enlightened master who lives atop a mountain...so up the peak
he climbs...and on his way he stumbles across an old man, hunched over carrying a heavy sack
down the path
"excuse me sir?" the Prince asks excitedly, "Are you the one who can teach me the secrets of
enlightenment"
The old man simply smiles, he drops his heavy sack to the floor, stands up tall and takes a deep
deep breathe into the bottom of his lungs and lets it go with a relaxing sigh
the prince begins to laugh "that's it my old friend, I finally understand...but sir I have to
ask...after enlightenment, what comes next?"
Without saying a word the old man picks up his heavy sack, throws it over his shoulders and
begins to carry on his journey down the mountains path

[greybeard]

All knowing ego must have an opinion on everything.
It will take very little information and form a solid opinion on shaky ground.
Its survival depends on being right.
so it must be "right" even when it is blatantly continuing in error.
Now we cant blame it for that as it is a survival mechanism and had to judge originally what was safe what was dangerous what was edible what was poison.
we would not have survive with out it.

Now we have evolved to the point that we have enough experience thats is remembered in our genes, that it is becoming redundant, or rather a liability.
We know what is edible, it says so on the can----- laughing

it is now a liability because it has to be alpha male or the equivalent female counterpart.
It will do what it can to be top dog in any given situation.
it is clever annd can be very subtle.
it will divide and conquer, it will attract followers.
It even likes to have enemies in spite of it calling for peace.
By making others wrong it empower its position.Therefore being wong is unthinkable.
Loose face you must be joking
I am the leader, people depend on me to be right, they would kill me if I was wrong.
They would attack me and show no mercy if I am found to be leading them in the wrong direction.
If I admit to error that would be an end to me.
I must keep the lie going, besides its only a little, one for the good of all.

Only the ego can be hurt or offended.
It appears rational but is virtually incapable of seeing an opposing point of view that is a really inconvenient truth.

Chris

[shiva777]

greybeard wrote "All knowing ego must have an opinion on everything."

he has posted his OPINIONS a total of 1,774 times in a period of 12 months in this forum alone...lol

[greybeard]

Trying to keep up with you Shiva 777 laughing.
Mine is as admitted to second hand but tried and tested by self and found to give me a peaceful mind.
A lot of the posts contain suggestions for relating peacefully with others
I just lay on the table what has worked for me. If people wnt to pick up or join in or post on the thread, great.

You are always welcome here.
Even if we dont agree I recognize that you have a good heart and care what happens to people.
What else matters?
Also I accept that my ego is work in progress.
Chris

[Jayke]

an ego is like a puppy; infinitely loving, fiercely loyal, wonderfully obedient when given the right training...yet leave it alone for more than a few minutes and it'll tear up the house.

I feel the ego gets a lot of bad rap, the mind creates so the body can experience, it takes the infinite and slaps a label on it, creating form out of nothingness.

As long as the individual 'I' never becomes more important than the collective 'we' then there's nothing to worry about, allow our egos to create something wonderful for the whole of humanity to enjoy and experience, i'm sure i'll miss my ego when this body ceases to work and my energy moves back into unity, it's been my best friend and a loyal companion and with the right encouragement it can create wonderful things, we should embrace and enjoy it, trying to find fault with it only pisses it off...I have the same love for my ego that i'd have for a new pet and it makes us both blissfully happy...amazing how quiet and silent it can be when it's feeling truly loved.

[greybeard]

an ego is like a puppy; infinitely loving, fiercely loyal, wonderfully obedient when given the right training...yet leave it alone for more than a few minutes and it'll tear up the house.

I feel the ego gets a lot of bad rap, the mind creates so the body can experience, it takes the infinite and slaps a label on it, creating form out of nothingness.

As long as the individual 'I' never becomes more important than the collective 'we' then there's nothing to worry about, allow our egos to create something wonderful for the whole of humanity to enjoy and experience, i'm sure i'll miss my ego when this body ceases to work and my energy moves back into unity, it's been my best friend and a loyal companion and with the right encouragement it can create wonderful things, we should embrace and enjoy it, trying to find fault with it only pisses it off...I have the same love for my ego that i'd have for a new pet and it makes us both blissfully happy...amazing how quiet and silent it can be when it's feeling truly loved.

There is truth in this.
Taming the ego is time well spent.

However

All that is beautifully created by humans is created in a focused state that is virtually timeless.
The ego functions in past and future it cant survive in the now.
Athletes perfom effortlessly in this state called the zone.
So it is a mistake to attribute these things to the ego.
Higher self is the creative aspect of this.
Self esteem is quite different from ego which is puffed up and inflated view ones achievements
An expert can truthfully say I am the leading authority on this subject, That is true not inflated ego.

regards chris

[Jayke]

There is truth in this.
Taming the ego is time well spent.

However

All that is beautifully created by humans is created in a focused state that is virtually timeless.
The ego functions in past and future it cant survive in the now.
Athletes perfom effortlessly in this state called the zone.
So it is a mistake to attribute these things to the ego.
Higher self is the creative aspect of this.
Self esteem is quite different from ego which is puffed up and inflated view ones achievements
An expert can truthfully say I am the leading authority on this subject, That is true not inflated ego.

regards chris

So if the ego really dies when you enter the zone, how come it's always there when you come back out of the zone? That's something I never really understood about that metaphor of ego and if it's true then how cool is that...like an indestructible phoenix that's always being reborn out of the flames of the now...

I see things a little differently however, take the word 'flow' for example, doesn't that imply that their are no restrictions, no barriers, energy is moving from the highest aspects of self to it's ultimate expression in life without any blockages...the only way I see that happening is if the ego expands to be in perfect alignment with the higher self, opening up, allowing energy to 'flow' through...the longer the ego can stay in alignment with the highest aspects of self the more inspired, joyful and blissful you'll ultimately feel, the longer you'll be in that state you call 'the zone'.

Taming the ego is farcical, just love it instead...that's all it needs, it's not some wild thing that needs to be wrestled with and kept under control, it's a part of you that wants to be loved and embraced like any other aspect of your being, I don't get why people need to single it out and turn it into the enemy, that ideology never really sat well with me.

[greybeard]

There is truth in this.
Taming the ego is time well spent.

However

All that is beautifully created by humans is created in a focused state that is virtually timeless.
The ego functions in past and future it cant survive in the now.
Athletes perfom effortlessly in this state called the zone.
So it is a mistake to attribute these things to the ego.
Higher self is the creative aspect of this.
Self esteem is quite different from ego which is puffed up and inflated view ones achievements
An expert can truthfully say I am the leading authority on this subject, That is true not inflated ego.

regards chris

So if the ego really dies when you enter the zone, how come it's always there when you come back out of the zone? That's something I never really understood about that metaphor of ego and if it's true then how cool is that...like an indestructible phoenix that's always being reborn out of the flames of the now...

I see things a little differently however, take the word 'flow' for example, doesn't that imply that their are no restrictions, no barriers, energy is moving from the highest aspects of self to it's ultimate expression in life without any blockages...the only way I see that happening is if the ego expands to be in perfect alignment with the higher self, opening up, allowing energy to 'flow' through...the longer the ego can stay in alignment with the highest aspects of self the more inspired, joyful and blissful you'll ultimately feel, the longer you'll be in that state you call 'the zone'.

Taming the ego is farcical, just love it instead...that's all it needs, it's not some wild thing that needs to be wrestled with and kept under control, it's a part of you that wants to be loved and embraced like any other aspect of your being, I don't get why people need to single it out and turn it into the enemy, that ideology never really sat well with me.

Respectfully try reading some of Dr David Hawkins work.

Its a very complex subject best to read what an expert has to say

Bear in mind that Enlightenment is an ego less state.
You cant have ego and be enlightened, That is fact,
http://www.veritaspub.com/



Awaited for twenty years, the publication of Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D., reveals to the general public secret information heretofore only shared by the author with certain Nobelists and world leaders. Analyzing the basic nature of human thought and consciousness itself, the author makes available to everyone the key to penetrating the last barrier to the advancement of civilization and science and resolving the most crucial of all human dilemmas: how to instantly determine the truth or falsehood of any statement or supposed fact.

This author's boyhood spiritual experience of the "Infinite Presence" has directed his life’s work as a healing psychiatrist, a healing that transcends his patients' physical world. Dr. Hawkins's basic thesis focuses on the "Ultimate Presence" – the source from which individuals can reach their highest potential. He uses theoretical concepts from particle physics, nonlinear dynamics, and chaos theory to support his study of human behavior.

Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional non Duality

This, the sixth book in a progressive series by the author, finalizes and further clarifies the true nature and core of the condition termed “Enlightenment.” Although it draws on consciousness research for explanation and contextualization, it is primarily an instruction manual for the serious spiritual devotee and reveals information that is known only by those who have transcended the ego to reach Divine Realization.

[Jayke]

Respectfully try reading some of Dr David Hawkins work.

Its a very complex subject best to read what an expert has to say

Bear in mind that Enlightenment is an ego less state.
You cant have ego and be enlightened, That is fact,
http://www.veritaspub.com/



Awaited for twenty years, the publication of Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D., reveals to the general public secret information heretofore only shared by the author with certain Nobelists and world leaders. Analyzing the basic nature of human thought and consciousness itself, the author makes available to everyone the key to penetrating the last barrier to the advancement of civilization and science and resolving the most crucial of all human dilemmas: how to instantly determine the truth or falsehood of any statement or supposed fact.

This author's boyhood spiritual experience of the "Infinite Presence" has directed his life’s work as a healing psychiatrist, a healing that transcends his patients' physical world. Dr. Hawkins's basic thesis focuses on the "Ultimate Presence" – the source from which individuals can reach their highest potential. He uses theoretical concepts from particle physics, nonlinear dynamics, and chaos theory to support his study of human behavior.

Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional non Duality

This, the sixth book in a progressive series by the author, finalizes and further clarifies the true nature and core of the condition termed “Enlightenment.” Although it draws on consciousness research for explanation and contextualization, it is primarily an instruction manual for the serious spiritual devotee and reveals information that is known only by those who have transcended the ego to reach Divine Realization.

Lol respectfully Greybeard, what makes you think I'm not already familiar with David Hawkins work? I've paid my dues when in comes to researching outside of oneself, never quite got all the answers I was looking for so I turned to gnosis instead. His work did inspire me alot in places though, yet people like to make things far more complex than they really ought to be, in reality, everything is so much simpler...David Hawkins work is still just his interpretation of what it means to be enlightened, his egos interpretation, there's so many paths to enlightenment, why would you want to walk someone elses when it's just as easy to trail blaze your own...maybe if people trusted in their own experiences enough they wouldn't have to jump to the nearest expert for guidance lol so how's that instruction manual working out for you? Have you transcended your ego and reached divine realization yet? or is that still a work in progress?

[greybeard]

Reading studying and understanding can be somewhat different.
It is good to cross check which most people who come here probably have.
Many books on enlightenment
Indian Sages a good start.

When the state of enlightenment happens and you cant make it happen, it is by the Grace of God,
there is no person left to claim enlightenment.
Every enlightened sage and this is a paradox because there is no person left, says the same thing.
Things happen, life happens but there is no person doing anything.
The sage is omni present.

The Tony Parsons Video is very clear.
It is impossible for mind to understand enlightenment.
The moment I think I know, then I am that full of information there is no room for more.
Again the paradox is when the seeking stops there is a real possibility that enlightenment will dawn and chris will be no more.
till then it is work in progress but I stopped reading seeking some time ago
The mind is silent and that is a massive blessing.
Regards Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FBFX39uEs&feature=player_embedded

[Ernie Nemeth]

Re:Tony Parsons
Love that line: (paraphrased)
I was seeking and making lists, then I realized this wasn't it - so I dropped it and went to play golf!
Perfect!

[truthseekerdan]

Re:Tony Parsons
Love that line: (paraphrased)
I was seeking and making lists, then I realized this wasn't it - so I dropped it and went to play golf!
Perfect!

Agree Earnie, some of us get so much caught up into teachings, explanations, etc. that in the end become 'spiritually obese'.

We have to drop the mentality (ego) and the fear associated with it, and become 'spiritually fit' to follow from the heart where the pure essence dwells. ♥

Namaste ~ Dan

[9eagle9]

I have a weird question/observation what ever you may call it. If I'm completely off wall or have left the building entirely don't be afraid to say so.


It has come to my attention over the last few weeks that most of the people that I share exchanges with about the course in miracles are ...men.

Videos, the authors I work for that produce ACIM based materials ...all men. Save for one. The books related to acim, all written by....men.

In my private life I've noticed in the last ten days the ACIM groupsI either visted or dropped by in for unrelated reasons were taught by...men. The groups were composed of mostly...men.

I called a woman friend of mine that teaches ACIM every Tuesday and asked her if there were more men in the group than women.

Yes, now that you mention it there are.

I was at lodge a few weeks ago and noticed a lot ACIM books in the study bookcase. I said to the lodge keeper "Oh I din't know that you and the Mrs. were into the material." He explained that he was but the Mrs. wasn't much into it.

So I began to reflect back a little. When I discuss ACIM I've had a great many women wrinkle their nose at me and say they dind't like it. A great many more men admitted to really being into the precepts.

I haven't paged back through this thread to see a man vs woman ratio in here and it would be difficult to determine as the avatars and name are rather non gender. But I was stuck with the odd feeling that there are a great many more men participating currently in this conversation? No? Yes?

I started reflecting a little further. ACIM is a bit about mastering your emotions and trigger points--the self ego pushing buttons based on external stimulis.

I'm sure men have noticed that woman are bit more ..erm..emotional and high strung than men. Not to say men don't have ego response but women are a bit more volatile in that area. And that perhaps its more of a draw for men because it teaches that emotions are to be mastered.That its okay to master them rather than letting everything all hang out and be reactive to every emotional blip on the radar. To help us run our lives better rather than being driven by possible ego based emotions. So yeah I can see why this would appeal to men a bit more than women.


If I'm entirely off here let me know. I just thought I'd bring it up because I've noticed a little pattern here recently. Of the people I know who practice ACIM type precepts I'm going have to say I know dozens of men who do. And only about a half dozen women.

[greybeard]

It was fairly balanced at Findhorn ACIM.
However in general I notice that women are the main part of most spiritual workshops though it tends to be a male teacher
Its possible that women are more into the feeling things ie Angels,even Chakras.
Men like the more technical 12 steps to enlightenment things
ACIM is quite mental, though simple in the work book.

Different natures that compliment each other.
So yes I think you are right

Chris

[Jayke]

Men like to figure things out, reverse engineer it and turn it into a science lol women just like to experience

[truthseekerdan]

The ego in its natural form is best suited to harmonize or give unity to the mind. The ego in its simplest form is best equipped to organize and provide balance to the mind. Balance means that one is harmonizing with and not resisting the forces that begin to alter perception and the sense of self. However, a complex or inflated ego can block us from understanding the source of any fundamental truth, including our love of life and essential nature.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/kgbwell/my%20pics/unity-1.jpg (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?15573-Calling-for-transformation-March-09-2011)

[shiva777]

learn about the function of the ego and how it fits in to your multi-dimensional divine blueprint...careful of the eckhart Tolle,David Hawkins,Neale Walsch distortions around ego..the new age and religious ideas of ego have been hi jacked in very clever ways..learn about your multi dimensional structure. and ego...vid

http://www.mojvideo.com/video-kathara-bio-spiritual-regenesis-01-05-15-dimensional-time-matrix-pt-2/83ca4be36d0d4965c515

[greybeard]

There are those who talk about it and those who are it.

First I am not in the state known as enlightenment

I am ignorant of that condition so what I share is my understanding of the knowledge of that state spoken of by Sages

Now here is the paradox they all say no none can claim to be enlightened as there is no person left at the end of the process from ignorance to enlightenment.

In that state all filters, all conditioning, belief system etc have been removed.
They experience life as it is, full force in your face so to speak.

Parsons was asked how did he experience misery.
He said there is no person to experience misery, misery arises full force.

Similarly sitting in a chair happens there is no person doing it, sitting happens.

The sage is life it self, the event, moment by moment in a timeless ego-less state.
Nothing is causing anything, it (life) is fulfilling its potential moment by moment in perfection.

Ramesh Balsekar the Advaita sage said

"God gave you an ego let Him take it away"

So we cant make it happen but we can ask for it to happen and as part of that be willing to surrender belief systems, opinions etc.

In the process of doing our part or seeming to do our part life gets much easier, the monkey mind becomes quieter, we are less quarrelsome we dont mind being wrong, we dont carry hurt for the same length of time, we spend more and more time in the only place that life exists, the present moment.
We read books by sages who have had ego removed by God, we are encourage by what they say, we do not resist what happens, we are uplifted.
Seeking decrease and eventually it stops.

So in some ways there is not a lot that can be said.

My though is that we currently are being made ready for the state of enlightenment, which is, Christ consciousness, Unity Consciousness.

We are in the crucible and impurities are being burnt off.

Even that is incorrect as, we are perfect now, we are just looking through the glass darkly in ignorance of our true Self.
The glass will be removed and we will see clearly. It may well look like New Earth but I suspect our perception will be changed to the degree we will see in a totally different way.

Namaste

[Jayke]

everyone is born into an enlightened state of being, isn't this what parsons tells us...so everyone's experienced this state at some point in their life which means that everyone still has access to it.
In a way, the younger someone is when they start out on their spiritual journey, the easier it is to shed yourself of any and all mental programming that comes from belief systems and opinions. the older you get before your search for enlightenment begins the more layers of imprints you ultimately have to burn off in the crucible, the more impurities have been imposed on you waiting to be removed. So in this day and age when a quickening is rippling through our solar system, awakening all those people who feel it's touch, it's exciting to envision what will become of our children in this spiritual adventure towards godhead.

One of the enlightened sages I read up on said being enlightened was akin to living the life of the amphibious frog, a being who is just as comfortable living in the water as it is on the land:
This sage said that he was able to enter that state of enlightenment at will, just as easy as jumping into a swimming pool, entering the ocean of nothingness. then when he'd enjoyed his time there enough he was perfectly capable of re-entering the world of the ego, returning to and amusing himself with the concept of thoughts, albeit being able to witness the emergence of thought as it arises from the ocean of the nothing and everything, so as not to be attached to the thoughts as they come and go, only witnessing this dance of energy as it plays around in his awareness.

to limit your understanding of enlightenment to that of the sages though is to limit your own experiences of what it means to evolve beyond where your currently at into something more than...
I'll end my post with a tip that was given to me several years ago that helps give more of a gnosis approach to discovering enlightenment through personal experience:

"imagine everyone in the world is enlightened - except you! Yep, that is right. Pretend that everyone is enlightened but you! That simply means pretend that everyone you meet is all here to teach you something! Your job is to find out what they are trying to teach you!
Start approaching life and people as if everyone is trying to teach you something. You will find that you will become less frustrated with things. Like if the person in front of you in the self checkout lane is taking there sweet wee dilly time, ask yourself " What is this person trying to teach me?" Perhaps the person is teaching you that life is not always rush, rush. That person understands and is comfortable with taking their time.

Give it a try and see how you feel when you pretend everyone is enlightened but you!"

[Ernie Nemeth]

Introduction to ACIM:

"...The course does not aim at teaching the meaning of love, for that is beyond what can be taught. It does aim, however, at removing the blocks to the awareness of love's presence, which is your natural inheritance. The opposite of love is fear, but what is all-encompassing can have no opposite.

The course can therefore be summed up very simply in this way:
Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.

Therein lies the peace of God."

The Heart can understand this immediately!
It takes 800 pages more to explain that to the ego....

[truthseekerdan]

"God gave you an ego let Him take it away"

Hi Chris, the Creator God did not gave you "an ego" -- you the 'soul' chose to experience the duality of the mind, by wearing the human body.

The lesson here is to learn how to control the ego, and not to be controlled by it... Hope this helps. :love:

Namaste ~ Dan ♥

wAQDuaAjeh8

[Jayke]

The lesson here is to learn how to control the ego, and not to be controlled by it... Hope this helps. :love:♥

I'd like to take it one step further and go beyond having to have any control over it, free will applied to self as well and not just applied when dealing with others. Having to control the ego still creates resistance in my experience, control is born out of fear, love is letting go and free will, seeing ego as an enemy that needs to be put under lock and key so you can go beyond it only creates a further element of division.

the only way my self has found that works best is to accept the ego; accept that we all have one, forgive it completely, embrace it as an extension of self, teach it some basic manners, do a bit of obediance training then love it like any other aspect of self, similar to how you'd raise a puppy and welcome it into your home as part of the family. With the right state of mind, discipline and training you can walk side by side with your ego in perfect alignment without having to keep it collared up and attached to a leash. Like that Cesar Millan (the dog whisperer) says: "are you gonna be the pack leader in your house with your calm assertive energy or are you gonna let your dogs rule the roost".

[Ernie Nemeth]

Ego and this world are illusion. We are love, I am love.

Nothing else exists. Free will is only the choice when to finally believe that.

[Jayke]

Ego and this world are illusion. We are love, I am love.

Nothing else exists. Free will is only the choice when to finally believe that.

so how does a person open themselves up to that place where all that exists is love in your experience?

[Ernie Nemeth]

Give of yourself, open yourself up to others, hide nothing, be brave and explore your supposed fears.

Then receive the gifts that will inevitably come your way.

[greybeard]

Ego and this world are illusion. We are love, I am love.

Nothing else exists. Free will is only the choice when to finally believe that.

so how does a person open themselves up to that place where all that exists is love in your experience?

Eckhart Tolle Power of Now a good place to begin if you havent read it.

There is also an enormous amount regarding that very question in the multitude of posts on the thread by many contributors, differing opinions but all respectful of others as you are.

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

The lesson here is to learn how to control the ego, and not to be controlled by it... Hope this helps. :love:♥

I'd like to take it one step further and go beyond having to have any control over it, free will applied to self as well and not just applied when dealing with others. Having to control the ego still creates resistance in my experience, control is born out of fear, love is letting go and free will, seeing ego as an enemy that needs to be put under lock and key so you can go beyond it only creates a further element of division.

the only way my self has found that works best is to accept the ego; accept that we all have one, forgive it completely, embrace it as an extension of self, teach it some basic manners, do a bit of obediance training then love it like any other aspect of self, similar to how you'd raise a puppy and welcome it into your home as part of the family. With the right state of mind, discipline and training you can walk side by side with your ego in perfect alignment without having to keep it collared up and attached to a leash. Like that Cesar Millan (the dog whisperer) says: "are you gonna be the pack leader in your house with your calm assertive energy or are you gonna let your dogs rule the roost".

Certainly the ego does not like the idea to be controlled, but to control. :)

As long as one identifies with the false identity of the dominant ego alone, cannot possibly understand.

An inflated ego is nothing more than an idea, as fear is nothing more than an idea. Both are self-created.

Both can be understood and both can be properly balanced or reset. Surrender the idea, and free the mind.

[greybeard]

Ramana was asked
How real is the world?
His reply
As real as you are.

One of his famous statements

There is neither creation or dissolution.

Taking that further

Ultimate is "Only God Is"

Tony Parsons no person left to do any thing. ( there never was a person)
As he says, "That is impossible to understand"

Ramesh who was the formost Advaita Sage Non Dualty) in India
said "The biggest obstacle is you think there is a doer."

"Events happen deeds are done there is no doer."

Parsons "Sitting happens"
Life is what you are it is not personal.

So you see how muddy the water gets in an attempt to explain "That which cant be spoken of"
The state of enlightenment can only be experienced it is not within our understanding, mind cant get it.
So the ego is a non existent mind construct.

However in the illusion it is as real as we believe it to be.

So whatever game we want to play to make this incarnation easier, play it.

The illusory ego can be surrendered to God.

Without Maya via the ego this play of consciousness could not occur in its present form.
So in the play it is correct to say God gave us an ego, we could not have survived without it as it is a separation device.

As said some time back we needed it to tell the edible from the inedible fiend from foe etc
We could not have survived in the play without it, problem is that the good slave became a bad master.
Too much of what about me, I want, I need, me first, developed.

So hopefully we have come to the time to step forward into unity Consciousness where ego is not required.

All points of view are correct just different ways of making sense of that which is beyond us to understand.

I can say none of this is real and defy gravity by jumping off a cliff.
I will very soon find I am correct in that assumption as I will be leaving my body to be in my real state.

I dont recommend it.

Chris

[truthseekerdan]

Do not follow the ideas of others, but learn to listen to the voice within yourself.

http://a377.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/47/l_e2ce1aa770eacbefd93cf98ab21e1eb8.jpg

[indiana]

oANZHMov05o&feature=related

[buckminster fuller]

I tend to see the ego as our "grounding" to material reality. It holds both promises of further enlightenment and self-destruction. As all qualities, an over-expressed ego leads to some kind of alienation. Embrace what you are, not who you are, and this mind construct has no more need to exist.

Peace

[trenairio]

Why is it stated in Buddhism that "a woman must be reborn as a man?" And how does one properly balance the feminine and masculine energies, or is balance needed at all?

[shiva777]

the no-ego advaita trap

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7262997/

[ktlight]

Ego is that within your thoughts that prevents progress. It thinks it is you and so it fights you and creates conflict within. For instance, if you confront that the observer is the observed, or face that jealousy is a thought-induced emotion and therefore is not real, ego does not want you to resolve that because it wants the control and therefore it will create conflict within. Thought and feeling are very closely aligned.

Asking the question leads to your answer, step by step, on your own path.

What is thought?
What is meant by I am the world and the world is me?

I hope you understand.

[Ahvehvida Shahadaha]

Very good discussion. All=All, infinity = infinity, therefore, potential = infinity, equaling, All is All in All dimensions. Why fear, All is Everywhere, you are everywhere, whether one wants to be accepted or not. Nothing fades but that's the fun part. I'm very interested to see where all of you head to next. Take care, everyone.

[shiva777]

"For various reasons, often misguided, many spiritual psychology systems set one portion of your human self against another portion of your human self. This tends to reinforce a polarity situation that usually does not have a happy resolution. Why would part of “you” want to “kill the ego” when the ego self is so connected to the central self of you? Ego self is a facet of the spiritual individuation experience for your larger soul being. It can be distorted or it can become a center of individuation with no other agenda other than exploring, learning, and being.

When more of “you” learns what other possibilities there are for existence, then even more off “you” wants to go along. This is not a trifling matter.

Central to this is reaching a sufficient level of completion. If your core human self still has unfinished business and strong dynamics and belief systems that tie it in to this 3d level, then how can you expect your lower self to willingly participate in some adventure that may somehow equate with “annihilation”?

However, if it sees that the human self is coherent and complete and happily working in concert with higher self, etc., then this represents a more stable or “safe” situation. Especially if it understands there is continuity to its existence, perhaps as part of a new type of spiritual individuation that is also part of a much larger being.

So, now you have a new “partner” and more of you is “on board”. This would be the part of you that also holds some of the keys to the physical and subtle realms of the body consciousness. This level of consciousness contributes an intimate knowledge of the operation and navigation of the physical world. Can your ordinary self directly operate and access the cells, organs, and systems of your body?

When this stage is reached there is a state of no fear and there is a willingness to let go of the body and other attachments of physicality for a new life at new levels of existence.

I bring this up here since this seems to also be related to the misguided spiritual misdirection that leads to unnecessary internal psychological conflicts."

I highly recommend reading this whole article...important info for dealing with current energies
http://www.pfcn.net/bulletins/update-feb-mar-2011-conclusion.pdf

[Jayke]

One of the principles of existence is that the universe is holographic, just as we use our microscopes to look down on the microbes, the bacteria, the single celled amoeba...there are entities or beings than look down upon us, what have been referred to as the macrobes, the angels or beings who are capable of divine intervention among human affairs. We have cells in our body, just as we each make up the cells of the earth. The earth is a cell of the solar system, the solar system is a cell of the galaxy, the galaxy is a cell of the universe and on and on and on into infinity. So we have the macrocosm, the cosmos and the microcosm... or more commonly known as the higher self, the self and the lower self (the ego).

It's well known that holograms continue on into infinity, we're only in the third dimension, meaning we're only capable of being aware of 3 layers of the hologram.
I'm curious to know what happens when we evolve to being able to perceive 4 dimensions, how will that affect our awareness? What lies beyond the macrocosm, what lies beyond the microcosm? How many layers of self will we be able to incorporate into our being once we get past the limitations of a 3 dimensional mind? I couldn't possibly understand what's coming next for our evolution but i do know that love and acceptance of every facet of self is what's necessary to take that next step, to evolve beyond the confines of the here and now into something greater than?

Not had the time to read the whole article shiva but that's my interpretation of what sprang to mind when I read through the segment you posted, I have a feeling we may be on the same page when it comes to this kind of thing, feel free to make any corrections

Much love
J

[truthseekerdan]

I found this article on the Ego, very well described and with helpful explanation.

Ego - The False Center

From Beyond the Frontier of the Mind by Osho

http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4782985/ego.gif

[Jayke]

Interesting article Dan for people who are still in the process of awakening yet for people who have already found their true spiritual centre I feel osho's metaphor is slightly incomplete, he says:


Try to see your own ego.

Just watch it.

Don't be in a hurry to drop it, just watch it. The more you watch, the more capable you will become. Suddenly one day, you simply see that it has dropped. And when it drops by itself, only then does it drop. There is no other way. Prematurely you cannot drop it.

It drops just like a dead leaf.

The tree is not doing anything - just a breeze, a situation, and the dead leaf simply drops. The tree is not even aware that the dead leaf has dropped. It makes no noise, it makes no claim - nothing.

The dead leaf simply drops and shatters on the ground, just like that.

When you are mature through understanding, awareness, and you have felt totally that ego is the cause of all your misery, simply one day you see the dead leaf dropping.

It settles into the ground, dies of its own accord. You have not done anything so you cannot claim that you have dropped it. You see that it has simply disappeared, and then the real center arises.

And that real center is the soul, the self, the god, the truth, or whatsoever you want to call it.

It is nameless, so all names are good.

You can give it any name of your own liking.

Looking at it from a broader perspective you realize that a tree without leaves can't bear fruit, it's dormant, it's not growing, it's an important part of the creation but it's not involved in the act of creating...and what happens when the winter passes and the sun begins to shine again, the leaves grow back and then you have to go through the process of waiting for them to die all over again.

Like he says though, once the leaves have dropped and you've experienced the true centre, the soul, the nameless... then all names are good, which means that once the leaves start to regrow you can define them however you choose, you can construct your own definitions, discarding the ones society has imposed on you. You get to create new concepts and allow the ego to be expressed in positive ways, not as the centre of the tree but as a natural part of it's extension and growth. It becomes a tool that the true self uses to bear fruit in the physical form, to breathe life into itself so that it can spread it's seeds and germinate any of the fertile fields around, ever expanding, ever increasing with the natural ebb and flow of the seasons.

Life is about movement, as humans we breathe in, we breathe out, the in breath draws life into the cells and supports our bodies, then we breathe out to enlighten ourselves and remove everything that isn't useful to us anymore.

On my path I'm looking for people who carry that divine spark that surges through them, where just their presence alone is enough to completely shatter your perception of how the world is supposed to be as it opens you up to something greater than. The 'egoless' people I've met are interesting, inspiring, they carry great wisdom but they don't carry that intensely divine spark that can only be obtained from taking the in breathe and filling yourself with all the joys that life has to offer, the out breath of enlightenment is an essential part of the process but it's not the main goal of what we're put through this level of incarnation to do, people who get caught in the enlightenment trap this early on in the game are missing out on half the joys of life IMO. we're all enlightened as we die anyway, what's the rush, just enjoy life as it arises and remember to really breathe every now and then...see how that affects the quality of your consciousness.

[Teakai]

I found this article on the Ego, very well described and with helpful explanation.

Ego - The False Center

From Beyond the Frontier of the Mind by Osho

http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4782985/ego.gif



Great article, Dan.

I think it explains perfectly what ego is.

I know that when in ego it is quite impossible to think that you might be something other than what you (think) you are. The only way to really see what an illusion it was is in hindsight.

[Teakai]

It's sort of like PMS. You might not realise you have PMS. You might think you're just having a bad day, then, you menstruate and you say, "ah, that was PMS".

Mostly people are nicer without the PMS - same goes with ego.

PMS - it's not really you - it's just your menstruation.
Ego - it's not really you - it's just your mentalstruation.


(Males may have a hard to relating to this analogy.)





(Just to say, this is meant to be slightly tongue in cheek :) )

[Heart-2-Heart]

Hi Dan ..thank you for this post...Osho is a.. No Nonsense teacher..and takes you straight to the root ..your mind...and ofcourse his humour is always woven in between his message...
The only person Osho ever wanted to meet was ..Ramana Maharshi....food for thoughts....(see Greybeards avatar )..but his father would not let him go there..it was a long journey to the south of India...and Osho was only a young boy not even a teenager yet...
If you want to find out about ..what is the ego..then study Osho's books...and videos..and listen ..I higly recomend them all....
My own ego...I lost it during the war ...with myself....:clock:
H2H

[truthseekerdan]

This is how Michael Jackson viewed the Ego in his music. Great soul -- RIP Michael :hug:

wUrqFkR7QlI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUrqFkR7QlI

[Jayke]

That's the kind of ego we could all benefit from, helping your soul bring such wonderful music into the world, the legend will live on...RIP

This is the song my soul sings to my ego to stop it going off the rails...Jackson 5 - I'll be there (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6bARIaMhCM)

[aranuk]

Hi folks, I'm new here! This is my first post:eek: Rudolf Steiner advocated that the ego should be strengthened in order to discern the realities of the spiritual encounter from our illusions in that realm. I think what he meant was to hone it into a useful tool for our service. On the other hand I cannot remember which of the yogi masters I read (maybe paramahansa yogananda ) describing the ego as a cockerell standing on a mountain of his own droppings making a cock a doodle doo noise. I can agree with many of the above posts describing ego. Like many psychic phenomena there seems to be many descriptions which fit the picture perfectly but not all applications have the same plug interface.

namaste

Aranuk

[Jayke]

On the other hand I cannot remember which of the yogi masters I read (maybe paramahansa yogananda ) describing the ego as a cockerell standing on a mountain of his own droppings making a cock a doodle doo noise.

LOL

That's a good metaphor...surely if the cockerel was better cared for though it could make it's sound without standing in a mountain of excrement. :)

Congrats on the first post, welcome aboard!!

[greybeard]

Relationships


There is as saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”
How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.
The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.
There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.
Why?
Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.
This is why.
There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.
The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.
There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.
So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?
By allowing it to be, that’s how.
There is enormous power for change in allowing.
Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.
We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.
When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.
You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.
Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.
Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.
The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.
The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.
The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.
See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.
Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?
Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.
“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.
Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.
You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.
It’s a state of non-judgmental love.
The situation is as it is.
As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.
Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.
The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.
There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.
What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.
Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.
So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.
If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.
The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of uncondional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”
On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.
These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.
This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.
A stepping stone if you will.
At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.
All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.

[truthseekerdan]

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?

I'm sure it's regarding the gods in human form that forgot who they really are... Not the Creator Source. :nod:

[greybeard]

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?

I'm sure it's regarding the gods in human form that forgot who they really are... Not the Creator Source. :nod:

You may well be right Dan.
It is my understanding that Creator Source has no wants needs or desires is complete in every way.
Source is not even concerned about us, as That knows we never left, we are as One, everything else is an illusion.

Chris

[RedeZra]

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?

It just means that God wanted the Israelites to keep the Commandments and not follow the surrounding nations in their fertility rites and cult of child sacrifice

[greybeard]

Nassim Haramein on Coast to Coast




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLPgmOxlpLI&feature=player_embedded

[truthseekerdan]

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?

It just means that God wanted the Israelites to keep the Commandments and not follow the surrounding nations in their fertility rites and cult of child sacrifice

You mean -- their god...

[greybeard]

The Yogis knew about the structure of the atom long before science did.
They were able to shrinking their own consciousness right into the infinite.

You dont have a soul!!!!!!!
That makes one think.
The soul has you.


Amazing video



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFhlPdZ15Cs&feature=player_embedded

[RedeZra]

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?

It just means that God wanted the Israelites to keep the Commandments and not follow the surrounding nations in their fertility rites and cult of child sacrifice

You mean -- their god...

I mean the Father whom Jesus spoke of

[lightblue]

.

thanks for the interview with ash chris...he's fun, he's cool...

wonder with what speed does thought travel? faster than the speed of light, or not as..i assume faster than the speed at our biological bodies vibrate?

could the speed of thoughts be (s)lowered so we can see them, or are the speeds/vibration rates given so they don't change? are some people's thoughts faster than the others' - is there are relative constant?

thinking...there has to be a way of harnessing elecro-magnetic movement and that's probably the story behind materialisation...if it's done by thought, then who/what's the master of the thought? the thought can't be the master and the servant at the same time..i am guessing: heart..maybe heart and soul... :yu: l

.

[greybeard]

.

thanks for the interview with ash chris...he's fun, he's cool...

wonder with what speed does thought travel? faster than the speed of light, or not as..i assume faster than the speed at our biological bodies vibrate?

could the speed of thoughts be (s)lowered so we can see them, or are the speeds/vibration rates given so they don't change? are some people's thoughts faster than the others' - is there are relative constant?

thinking...there has to be a way of harnessing elecro-magnetic movement and that's probably the story behind materialisation...if it's done by thought, then who/what's the master of the thought? the thought can't be the master and the servant at the same time..i am guessing: heart..maybe heart and soul... :yu: l

.

Thanks for the blooming flowers lightblue
I listened to the video once so far.
What got re your vaild questions is that we are in a bubble, that is within a bigger bubble within and even bigger bubble and so on.
The beings that are in the bubble that surrounds us are aware of us and can enter ourworld because it is part of their bubble bust as yet we cant enter theirs.
Their speed might be different,
All thoughts arrive at the same speed and are processed at the same speed but then some might have a quicker mind to deal with the thoughts that arrive in conscious awareness already processed/filtered by subconscious.
The speed can be measure by brain scan, cant slow down arrival it is common to all.
We attract thoughts concordent with our energy field ie level of consciousness.
These same thoughts are available to all within that field, they are not personal.

Thats my current understanding,
Chris

Ps by the power of intention we can manifest, the higher our personal vibration the faster we can manifest.
Thats why the master can do this effortlessly but rarely bothers, He has no needs wants or desires.

[jjjones]

Dear family particles of the life source,

ego in this physical realm is about the brain or specific types of personalities/ personality traits. This is all well and good for tunnel vision, but we need to get down to basics. The missing link that is most potent & important is taught in holy books and by spiritual teachers. Sadly it is the most misunderstood/ misinterpreted, i am speaking of the (kingdom within, the god-self, the higher self, the connector etc).

A great interpretive spin of confusion has been put on this subject of ego and spiritual transcendence/ enlightenment, which is much more elementary in answering and understanding. In essence we are eternal entities whom will always be " constant teachers and students in unison, even @ advanced life planes. Experiences and learning from the experiences are attributed for a constant growth process within ones self, to know who they are and who they are not. These lessons/ learning experiences through unconditional love & unconditional forgiveness of themselves and others, who participated in their growth experience,spiritual advancement and enlightenment is what we refer to as transcendence.

We are constant, continuous, changeable life energy particles of the "whole life source". We are one with all creation. I leave you all with a saying that my grandmother always said. The only real wisdom is "knowing" that you "know nothing"

continue to experience & learn within the arms of love. We have all the time we need---- eternity jjjones :)

[aranuk]

That was a very informative set of videos. Thank you!

Aranuk

[greybeard]

That was a very informative set of videos. Thank you!

Aranuk

thank you Aranuk

And theres more
in the words of a an Irish comedienne.
There is a wealth of videos in the thread which started several years back in the original Avalon.
It does my heart good to see people posting here with an understanding of duality and ego.
All contributions welcome.
Chris
Namaste

[lightblue]

chris
Thanks for the blooming flowers lightblue
I listened to the video once so far.
What got re your vaild questions is that we are in a bubble, that is within a bigger bubble within and even bigger bubble and so on.
The beings that are in the bubble that surrounds us are aware of us and can enter ourworld because it is part of their bubble bust as yet we cant enter theirs.
Their speed might be different,
All thoughts arrive at the same speed and are processed at the same speed but then some might have a quicker mind to deal with the thoughts that arrive in conscious awareness already processed/filtered by subconscious.
The speed can be measure by brain scan, cant slow down arrival it is common to all.
We attract thoughts concordent with our energy field ie level of consciousness.
These same thoughts are available to all within that field, they are not personal.

Thats my current understanding,
Chris

Ps by the power of intention we can manifest, the higher our personal vibration the faster we can manifest.
Thats why the master can do this effortlessly but rarely bothers, He has no needs wants or desires.

then, it follows that there's concentrical bubble in which beings of lower speed than ours live.,.according to that we could see them at will...or not? what do you think these beings are - has anyone seen them so to describe them, do you know? could they be living in what's otherwise called "lower astral"? in which case i don't want to be lowering my speed down..

when the thought is cast, free of want, need or interest (selfull by definition) i find the manifesting almost instant....it's fun....i prefer to call it - going lucky...


We attract thoughts concordent with our energy field ie level of consciousness.
These same thoughts are available to all within that field, they are not personal.

telepathy and special bonds between people are so beutifully explained by this observation....:) l

[greybeard]

chris
Thanks for the blooming flowers lightblue
I listened to the video once so far.
What got re your vaild questions is that we are in a bubble, that is within a bigger bubble within and even bigger bubble and so on.
The beings that are in the bubble that surrounds us are aware of us and can enter ourworld because it is part of their bubble bust as yet we cant enter theirs.
Their speed might be different,
All thoughts arrive at the same speed and are processed at the same speed but then some might have a quicker mind to deal with the thoughts that arrive in conscious awareness already processed/filtered by subconscious.
The speed can be measure by brain scan, cant slow down arrival it is common to all.
We attract thoughts concordent with our energy field ie level of consciousness.
These same thoughts are available to all within that field, they are not personal.

Thats my current understanding,
Chris

Ps by the power of intention we can manifest, the higher our personal vibration the faster we can manifest.
Thats why the master can do this effortlessly but rarely bothers, He has no needs wants or desires.

then, it follows that there's concentrical bubble in which beings of lower speed than our's is live..acccording to that we can see them at will...what do you think these beings are - has enyine seen them so to dscribe them, do you know? could they be living in what's otherwise called "lower astral"? in which case i don't want to be lowering my speed down..

when the thought is cast, free of want, need or interest (selfull by definition) i find the manifesting almost instant....it's fun....i prefer to call it - going lucky...


We attract thoughts concordent with our energy field ie level of consciousness.
These same thoughts are available to all within that field, they are not personal.

telepathy and special bonds between people are so beutifully explained by this observation....:) l

Hi lightblue
your observations brilliant.

To the best of my understanding, taking our ability to hear for example.
We can hear note up to a certain vibration and down to a certain vibration, in our bubble dogs and elephants have a different range.
Some can see auric field and on it goes.
The lower astral being "negative" energy is a lower vibration yet we cant see it or experience it in the main, though some experience "hell" in this life.
I found Dr Hawkins explanations helpful via a map of consciousness.

Basically the higher vibration enlightened states can remember and identify with lower vibration states because they have been there.
We cant because we havent that spiritual vibration to have their perception.
Its like going up a mountain, they (enlightened souls)can come back down to guide us to where we have not been before or cant remember being.

David Sereda in the first video a few pages back talks about jumping shells, that might be like going to the next bubble, anyway it would be a major change in consciousness brought about by the magnetic energy coming into our solar system just now.

Just thinking aloud lightblue.
Its a may be so.

Chris
Namaste

[lightblue]

chris

Basically the higher vibration enlightened states can remember and identify with lower vibration states because they have been there.

it then follows that good/positive and evil/negative are mentalities..which may be compatible with either lower or higher vibration consciousness....maybe that's why some people almost constantly attract lower consciousness states/events and vice versa..

perhaps and if you have it to hand you can post hawkins's chart...i studied it a while back but it may be of general interest to have it posted here... just a thought...:yu: l
.

[greybeard]

chris

Basically the higher vibration enlightened states can remember and identify with lower vibration states because they have been there.

it then follows that good/positive and evil/negative are mentalities..which may be compatible with either lower or higher vibration consciousness....maybe that's why some people almost constantly attract lower consciousness states/events and vice versa..

perhaps and if you have it to hand you can post hawkins's chart...i studied it a while back but it may be of general interest to have it posted here... just a thought...:yu: l
.

Yes Hawkins call these attractor fields.

The map of consciousness is copyright and I can see why.
It is helpful by itself but without the book Power vs Force it lacks context.
Its like giving a person a tiny bit of canvas torn off a famous picture, the person wont really appreciate the value of the work unless they get to view it all.
Thank you for your contributions lightblue.
Love Chris

[lightblue]

chris:
Yes Hawkins call these attractor fields.

The map of consciousness is copyright and I can see why.
It is helpful by itself but without the book Power vs Force it lacks context.
Its like giving a person a tiny bit of canvas torn off a famous picture, the person wont really appreciate the value of the work unless they get to view it all.
Thank you for your contributions lightblue.
Love Chris

i myself don't like to use "unless" as much..i believe everyone is free to draw what they feel is useful from whatever material....parhaps that's why my teaching "career" didn't last as long - though my students loved my classess, the head people at the school did not..they said my didactic approach was too liberal....i was happy to leave and not look back..

that's ok - i prefer to stay a student anyway... :yu: l
.

.

[truthseekerdan]

The Yogis knew about the structure of the atom long before science did.
They were able to shrinking their own consciousness right into the infinite.

You dont have a soul!!!!!!!
That makes one think.
The soul has you.


Amazing video



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFhlPdZ15Cs&feature=player_embedded

Great video find Chris! It confirms what I already knew, and more in beautiful scientific detail.
Thank you. :love:

[RedeZra]

when Papaji told Mooji

"If you desire to be one with truth you must completely disappear"

then Mooji got angry


who in a state of sound mind would want to disappear ?


the one who wants truth ; )

[greybeard]

when Papaji told Mooji

"If you desire to be one with truth you must completely disappear"

then Mooji got angry


who in a state of sound mind would want to disappear ?


the one who wants truth ; )

Thanks RedeZra

Papaji enlightened for sure.
Mooji a fine teacher but possibly not all the way there yet.
The enlightened ones are clear, there is no person left to claim enlightenment.
The self dissolves into the Self the wave becomes the Ocean.

Some enlightened teachers like David Hawkins are very precise, spelling it out with love for the student and devotion to God.
Some are Zen like and make you find out for yourself.
That style is open to misinterpretation and the teacher may not be enlightened, thats ok too.

My preference is to listen to the ones who had a mystical experience (union a mystic a) non linear an absolute knowing.
Ramana Maharshi, Dr David Hawkins, Nasargadatta, Ramesh Balsekar, Eckhart Tolle.
They had experiences that dissolved the self.
Christ was a Divine incarnation.

[truthseekerdan]

when Papaji told Mooji

"If you desire to be one with truth you must completely disappear"

then Mooji got angry


who in a state of sound mind would want to disappear ?


the one who wants truth ; )

Thanks RedeZra

Papaji enlightened for sure.
Mooji a fine teacher but possibly not all the way there yet.
The enlightened ones are clear, there is no person left to claim enlightenment.
The self dissolves into the Self the wave becomes the Ocean.

Some enlightened teachers like David Hawkins are very precise, spelling it out with love for the student and devotion to God.
Some are Zen like and make you find out for yourself.
That style is open to misinterpretation and the teacher may not be enlightened, thats ok too.

My preference is to listen to the ones who had a mystical experience (union a mystic a) non linear an absolute knowing.
Ramana Maharshi, Dr David Hawkins, Nasargadatta, Ramesh Balsekar, Eckhart Tolle.
They had experiences that dissolved the self.
Christ was a Divine incarnation.

So are you, at a different level of consciousness... :nod:

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/ye-are-gods-t10954.html

[greybeard]

Im quoting Hawkins when he says Christ was a Divine incarnation.
(Dont shoot the messenger.)

Seemingly he had no previous incarnations no past lives.
His conception was unique.
He came specifically to be what he still is a Saviour.
He will still intercede for souls after death of the body.

Im recounting and pharaphrasing what Dr Hawkins has said on videos that I have watched and on his latest cd "The discovery."

http://www.nightingale.com/prod_detail~product~discovery.aspx


The Buddha and all other enlightened beings had many lifetimes to get to the point of enlightenment.
We are all Divine incarnations it cant be otherwise but there are levels of spiritual vibration and various attributes of Divinity.
I believe I am of Divine nature but cant claim the power of an Angel far less that of an Archangel

There is a big difference between intellectual knowledge, even belief ---------and knowing through personal subjective experience.

Namaste

ps if you do a google search you will find torrent downloads for the cd,

[RedeZra]

Papaji enlightened for sure.
Mooji a fine teacher but possibly not all the way there yet.
The enlightened ones are clear, there is no person left to claim enlightenment.
The self dissolves into the Self the wave becomes the Ocean.



after the rage peace came


what did Papaji say to Mooji ?

it is the Mister that obstructs the Master


it is i that obstruct I

i am imagination while I Am Reality


So the universe is Projection

and bodies are thoughts and so are souls

while I Am what I Am


you can call me Al lol


HOiVaE-pKqM

[Jayke]

There is a big difference between intellectual knowledge, even belief ---------and knowing through personal subjective experience.

Namaste

ps if you do a google search you will find torrent downloads for the cd,

Have you heard of Jeddah Mali and her meditation course seeds of enlightenment, some of the most profound meditations i've ever listened to, they helped my mind melt and become one with the ocean on several occasions, can also be found as a torrent for download.

[lightblue]

chris:
The Buddha and all other enlightened beings had many lifetimes to get to the point of enlightenment.
We are all Divine incarnations it cant be otherwise but there are levels of spiritual vibration and various attributes of Divinity.
I believe I am of Divine nature but cant claim the power of an Angel far less that of an Archangel

There is a big difference between intellectual knowledge, even belief ---------and knowing through personal subjective experience.


there are "various attributes of Divinity" - i do like that observation... it deserves a thread of its' own i think...


There is a big difference between intellectual knowledge, even belief ---------and knowing through personal subjective experience.

in fact, the difference is so HUGE, only comitted, love infused heart&souls (not minds) can bridge the gap.....the rest i think is book selling and idle chatter..

knowing about spirituality is sooo far from knowing and living it ..


..:yu: l

[truthseekerdan]

Im quoting Hawkins when he says Christ was a Divine incarnation.
(Dont shoot the messenger.)

Seemingly he had no previous incarnations no past lives.
His conception was unique.
He came specifically to be what he still is a Saviour.
He will still intercede for souls after death of the body.

Im recounting and pharaphrasing what Dr Hawkins has said on videos that I have watched and on his latest cd "The discovery."

Well Chris, according to some prophets, and I quote one of the most known in the world today Edgar Cayce: "Cayce presented narratives of Jesus' previous incarnations, including a mysterious Atlantean figure called "Amilius" as well as the more familiar biblical figures of Adam, Enoch, Melchizedek, Joshua, Asaph, and Jeshua. Cayce describes Jesus as an Essene who traveled to India in his youth in order to study Eastern religions, more specifically astrology.

Cayce distinguishes between Jesus and Christhood. Briefly, Jesus was a soul like us who reincarnated through many lifetimes. "Christhood" is something he was the first to allow to be "manifest" through his material life, and it is something which we also ought to aspire towards. Cayce accordingly calls Jesus our "elder brother" and frequently makes reference to the way of the "lowly Nazarene." "

Origin and destiny of humanity: "All souls were created in the beginning, and are finding their way back to whence they came." [Reading 3744-5] The Cayce readings could be interpreted as saying that human souls were created with a consciousness of their oneness with God. Some "fell" from this state; others—led by the Jesus soul—volunteered to save them. The Earth, with all its limitations, was created as a suitable arena for spiritual growth. These ideas follow the work of Origin, a Greek Christian Philosopher from the 3rd century. It could also be interpreted as saying that all beings are born and all will eventually die."

Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2W8wO70uoc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruDEND63oG8

[greybeard]

You pay your penny to take your choice.

I dont know but was Edgar Cayce enlightened?
One of the books you recommended Dan was it the French Author who was abducted claimed that Jesus was put on earth by an aliens for our benefit, they even had the body of Jesus on their planet.

If I had to choose and I dont I would take the word of one who is enlightened, they cant lie or give misinformation.

Basically it really does not matter what I think.
I dont have to belive my thoughts.

Eckhart Tolle "Dont take your thoughts too seriously"

Course in miracles "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion."


Ultimately only God is.
We are that.

The "rest" the "story" is consciousness at play.

Gods Lelah

Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

You pay your penny to take your choice.

I dont know but was Edgar Cayce enlightened?

Chris, don't let the ego take control... ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQD90Las5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQD90Las5c

[lightblue]

chris
If I had to choose and I dont I would take the word of one who is enlightened, they cant lie or give misinformation.


and i like to observe and learn from cats, dogs, megpies, blackbirds and a pear tree these days....if you look carefully, you'll see how fascinatingly clever they are..also how seemingly unrelated objects in nature are placed "coincidentally" as opposed to each other....it all reveals a divine order if you look closely... last year it was rose bushes and tree tops.. :yu: l
.

.

[greybeard]

There is a difference between talking about it and being in that state Dan
Many know a lot second hand or glimpses of it.
Very few actually permanently in that state.

My ego is work in progress but I am aware of it playing and I watch it, I dont mind.
My mind is silent.
I await God to finish the Job if he so pleases.
When if it happens it will be NOW.
The intellect will only take one so far then it is down to Kundalini energy and silent mind.

Regards Chris

Ps part of that is not having to be right.
Its a relief not to have to be.

However there is an interest in truth.
Truth is eternal it does not change, which is why the enlightened ones have said exactly the same thing since time began.
There is no person left to claim enlightenment.

[greybeard]

chris
If I had to choose and I dont I would take the word of one who is enlightened, they cant lie or give misinformation.


and i like to observe and learn from cats, dogs, megpies, blackbirds and a pear tree these days....if you look carefully, you'll see how fascinatingly clever they are..also how seemingly unrelated objects in nature are placed "coincidentally" as opposed to each other....it all reveals a divine order if you look closely... last year it was rose bushes and tree tops.. :yu: l
.

.

Yes they are integreous, exactly and they are fully what they are.

Just watching like the cat watches a mouse hole stills the mind.
No anticipation nothing a knowing, if a mouse appears then action is instant without thought.
That is enlightenment.
Thoughtless awareness.
Namaste

[lightblue]

Yes they are integreous, exactly and they are fully what they are.

Just watching like the cat watches a mouse hole stills the mind.
No anticipation nothing a knowing, if a mouse appears then action is instant without thought.
That is enlightenment.
Thoughtless awareness.
Namaste
also, not stashing anything away ..it all comes to them in good time...l

.

[greybeard]

Yes they are integreous, exactly and they are fully what they are.

Just watching like the cat watches a mouse hole stills the mind.
No anticipation nothing a knowing, if a mouse appears then action is instant without thought.
That is enlightenment.
Thoughtless awareness.
Namaste
also, not stashing anything away ..it all comes to them in good time...l

.

Ah but you can say that because you are a cub.
Lol

[lightblue]

no, no....been watching my relatives... l
.

[trenairio]

Why is it stated in Buddhism that "a woman must be reborn as a man [reborn with a logical mind, as opposed to emotion]?" And how does one properly balance the feminine and masculine energies, or is balance needed at all?
(Could an informed person have concern for this question?)

[truthseekerdan]

There is a difference between talking about it and being in that state Dan
............
There is no person left to claim enlightenment.

Dear Chris,

What is enlightenment other than a human mind idea (concept).
My understanding is that the word enlightenment is just another word for love -- Unconditional Love.
Each one of us at the "soul level" is enlightened, because we all have a higher self consciousness that is part of Love, or God Source for better understanding. The soul which is a fraction from one's higher self (oversoul), it embodied in 3D to have an experience, and eventually learn how to be and express love in the "illusion of separation".

An example of unconditional love was Jesus -- he already "graduated" from 3D limitations however, reincarnated as a volunteer with full consciousness of who he was (no amnesia) in order to show others "the way".
It is possible that Jesus' body DNA was not even fully human, as the scriptures tell us that he was born of a virgin. Therefore his DNA might have been fully activated, and not "dormant" like most ordinary humans.

Enlightenment means in my vocabulary to also be respectful of others opinions, even when one does not fully agree -- it also means for me not to follow blindly anyone else for that matter. We are all equal, despite our differences.

Namaste ~ Dan :love:

[greybeard]

Why is it stated in Buddhism that "a woman must be reborn as a man [reborn with a logical mind, as opposed to emotion]?" And how does one properly balance the feminine and masculine energies, or is balance needed at all?
(Could an informed person have concern for this question?)

There are various branches of Buddhism but I can not see that this is so.
In India there are enlightened Mothers.
St Teresa of Calcutta was enlightened, various other catholic female Saints enlightened.

When with humility you surrender to God and ask him to illumine your intellect, enlighten you, remove your ignorance, all is taken care of.
Male or female no difference, all will be balanced.
Its not an easy trip, all that is not your true self will reveal itself within you.
Some of your actions will be unacceptable to you, when they arise you surrender the pay value you get from them to God, asking for their removal and for Him to take care of you.
You are in the crucible being purified sometimes it is painful.

Hope this helps

Namaste

[greybeard]

In general
The state called enlightenment by mind.
Is a natural state which replaces the normal state, it is entirely different,
We all have the potential to experience that state.
Very few do.
That is fact not opinion.

Thats why there is a difference between talking bout it and being it.
It is natural and normal when that state prevails.
That is why it is a state that the mystics say can not be spoken of only experienced, it is beyond language and mind.
The moment it is spoken of it is a mind concept and there fore not it.

I have respect for all opinions but if I want to know about the sate that we label as enlightenment (no enlightened one claims it as there is no person left to claim it)
then I listen to only those in that state.

Dont listen to my concept, explore deeply the writings of the mystics,

I would hope that a person who wants the Truth unadulterated would read the spiritual geniuses such as Ramana, Nasargadatta, Ramesh Balsekar.

All had a period of seclusion, all experienced great fear as the ego died, Ramana couldn't speak for years.

In English speaking culture Tolle sat on a park bench for two years, Hawkins a hermit for 8 years.

The experience tends to happen with Kundalini shooting up the spine, a brief period of fear, the ego dying, The ego might be an illusion but the belief in a me is very powerful and there is great fear of loosing it, a period of peace, then quite a long spell as the state matures.

That can take years. some die during the process if there is no one to look after their body, no needs wants or desires means there is no attraction to food.
The body is not regarded as self anymore.

Its a deep subject which I have spent time with virtually every day for many years and I am not enlightened but I have benefited greatly.

As said the mind is silent, I have very little but I have all my "needs" met.
I dont mind what happens, I have no fear, most times I am fully present in the moment.
I share what has taken years to find out in a single minded fashion.
Even then there are misunderstandings I can only point to those who know.

Namaste

[RedeZra]

You pay your penny to take your choice.

One of the books you recommended Dan was it the French Author who was abducted claimed that Jesus was put on earth by an aliens for our benefit, they even had the body of Jesus on their planet.




I don't know where the ball will stop

so I'll bet on every number lol

http://www.gamblingallday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/roulette.jpg

just joking

[truthseekerdan]

I have respect for all opinions but if I want to know about the sate that we label as enlightenment (no enlightened one claims it as there is no person left to claim it)
then I listen to only those in that state.

If there is no person left, who are you listening to? ;)

I would listen to my intuition, and look within (my heart) for guidance -- the "whisper" of my higher self.

JMHO

http://theanniestreetexperience.com.au/upload/Within%20your%20heart.jpg

[RedeZra]

If there is no person left, who are you listening to? ;)


God reveals if the person leaves ; )

[truthseekerdan]

"There is no enlightenment outside of daily life." -- Thic Nhat Hanh

What is this enigmatic and exalted state called "enlightenment"? Why is everyone so enamored by this word? Why is everyone so eager to attain it? Does anyone really understand the essence of it? Many speak of it as if they do, and while others use it to enhance their status. I have been in the presence of such people, and I am always astounded at the level of ignorance guiding their behavior. Such people are nowhere near awakened, let alone enlightened, and this includes both teacher and student. It is like the blind leading the blind. The irony is that the effort they expend on becoming enlightened only impedes the realization that they already are. Enlightenment is not something you do; it is about being.

This beingness seems to be the hardest lesson to master, for it involves a gradual, developmental and cumulative process of growth through steps and stages. It emerges as a natural consequence of allowing, rather than by any egoic effort to attain it, because it involves surrendering and the ultimate dissolution of the ego in order to realize it. You can read the world's greatest mystical and spiritual literature, become very knowledgeable on techniques, rites and rituals, and yet remain completely unchanged. Accumulation of knowledge is not enlightenment, and neither is the prowess of mystical vocabulary the proof.

What we need is a new definition of what enlightenment means within the context of modern existence. The popular version is depicted as a sudden state of rapture and ecstasy, accompanied by luminous light and visions, an end of suffering and the dawning of bliss, thus permanently enlightening the aspirant. All this may very well be true, but does this depiction really explain what enlightenment is?

This state of beingness is easy to attain or maintain in an ashram, monastery or somewhere up in the mountains far removed from the challenges of modern life. There's nothing wrong with pursuing a monastic life or dedicating your life to simplicity and seclusion; this has its time and value on the journey. But how much of that pursuit is authentic, versus escaping the demands of the world? When you live in seclusion, you bet it's easier to maintain a consciousness of love and compassion.

So what is enlightenment? How about coming down from that mountain and putting your unity consciousness to the test amidst mortgage payments and credit card debt, divorce lawyers and aging parents, nasty bosses and health problems, wars and poverty? Such conditions, as the alchemist knows, burns away the dross to reveal who we are not. Yes, in the midst of the madness we awaken, grow comfortable with our dualistic nature and develop mystical stamina so that we can handle our sobriety. Illusions are like drugs and enlightenment is like rehab.

An enlightened person neither seeks the light, nor remains inactive in the darkness. Their goal is not enlightenment, but of conduct toward self, life and others. When you're in the presence of such a person, no verbal exchange is necessary to know who you are dealing with. Such people can serve in monasteries or stock markets, run corporations or run for office, walk the desert or walk to work. They have the ability to see things as they really are, to accept what is and remain open to all of life. This is done not out of naiveté or denial, but out of profound understanding of how life really works.

"After enlightenment, the laundry." -- a Zen proverb

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/natasha-dern/enlightenment_b_825365.html

E9BBy3aidRE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9BBy3aidRE

[Jayke]

I've always been more interested in what happens after enlightenment than how to get there and found this quote very inspiring when I first read it some 10 years ago:


“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

The most enlightened people I know rarely talk about enlightenment, rarely talk directly about spirituality, all they do is plant seeds and allow enlightenment to grow in others, and they all have one thing in common...their ability to walk into a room and make the whole place glow, they exude warmth, joy, passion, a genuine love and excitement for life, their way of beingness draws people in like moths to a flame allowing them to bathe in the glory of the godly emotions these people emanate. That's what inspires me and stirs the divinity in me, ego falls into alignment and becomes a helpful tool that facilitates the expression of divinity in a material world, not something that has to be discarded, if people don't like what their ego does for them, then where's the love in discarding it, just give it a new role, a new function...one that is united with spirit and not in opposition to it.

[greybeard]

All contributions here are appreciated and welcome.
There are many charismatic yet humble, brilliant teachers who have succeeded in taming their ego and contribute greatly to society.

Enlightenment by definition is ego-less.
One definition of ego is "Edge God Out"
Its a judgmental separation device and was very necessary as part of our evolution
The ego is not the enemy and will take you so far, transcnding means overcoming not making an enemy of it.
Unity consciousness, Christ consciousness, Enlightenment, different names for an ego-less state.
It is not possible to have one ness and a separation device called ego.
All traditional teaching empathizes this.
New age wants to have its cake and eat it.
It wants enlightenment and be co-creator
God creates through the enlightened being and every one else.

Those enlightened ones function effortlessly in the world, they enjoy life to the full.
The ones who teach in the west have a full and busy life with bills to pay like everyone else.

I only have a desire to be accurate in what I post about enlightenment.
Its not a question of being right or wrong.

Namaste

[greybeard]

Dan asks who do you listen to if there is no person left speaking.
There is only one SELF
The teacher and the taught have the same consciousness.
Truly ultimately there is only consciousness here. Only One.
SELF is not personal, person is an illusion.

That is very hard to understand, the mind cant get it, its impossible for mind according to Tony parson video pages back.
No self no problem.
Its ridiculously simple.
Namaste


ps if you are new to this topic please start page one, a years work explaining that which can only be experienced Lol

[RedeZra]

i am as a bubble in a sea of serenity

an airhead under water so to speak


bubbles are not built to last forever


where does it go when it bursts

where do i go when i leave


when i'm done dreaming

i will vanish into I


I'm always here

http://www.software-dungeon.co.uk/images/116050_screenshot.gif

[jjl]

Enlightenment for me, is an elusive concept. It seems to get close to it, means getting further from it. For me it involves exploring as many versions of truth as I am able. At this stage in my life it is the journey itself I pay attention to. My enlightenment comes from veiwing my past and my travels toward that holy prize. I try to look back at my behavior to see what seems less enlighted for me as the person I have become. The further along I get, the less I understand. But this is good as it returns and anchors me to the present which is the only real chance I have.
One thing I can promise anyone who sets out to achieve enlightenment. You cant plan or map it out.

[ulli]

jjl:


But this is good as it returns and anchors me to the present which is the only real chance I have.

I wish I'd said that.

[lightblue]

chris:
There are various branches of Buddhism but I can not see that this is so.
In India there are enlightened Mothers.
St Teresa of Calcutta was enlightened, various other catholic female Saints enlightened.

When with humility you surrender to God and ask him to illumine your intellect, enlighten you, remove your ignorance, all is taken care of.
Male or female no difference, all will be balanced.
Its not an easy trip, all that is not your true self will reveal itself within you.
Some of your actions will be unacceptable to you, when they arise you surrender the pay value you get from them to God, asking for their removal and for Him to take care of you.
You are in the crucible being purified sometimes it is painful.

Hope this helps

Namaste

sorry to but in - there is a difference between the "enlightement" imposed and enlightement sought..

it so happens that thousands of wretched ones tended to by mother teresa in india at the time saw thair untimely death as a result of "enlightement" as offered to them by mother teresa..the chances are these souls did not need "enlightement", but a course of antibiotics before they saught and enjoyed being one with all there is....in some cases aspirines..we are in trouble when "enlightement" becomes political, when it becomes ranked and acknowledged by "the authorities"....i don't want to get into discussion about mother teresa having been enlightened or not - she may well have been - but whether she helped her patients become enlightened or not, that i wish i had a chance to hear from them before they surrendered themselves to god i.e.got sent to early grave...:wink:.l


.
.

[jjl]

there is no such thing as imposed enlightenment. The very term is oxymoronic as in "Jumbo Shrimp" or "Military Intelligence".

[RedeZra]

it so happens that thousands of wretched ones tended to by mother teresa in india at the time saw thair untimely death as a result of "enlightement" as offered to them by mother teresa..the chances are these souls did not need "enlightement", but a course of antibiotics before they saught and enjoyed being one with all there is....in some cases aspirines..


lol light Mother gave them antibiotics and aspirins

She didn't give them enlightenment ; )

[truthseekerdan]

"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another.
This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another.
The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!" ~ Kant

Have a great day everyone!

Dan ♥

[truthseekerdan]

The "you" who is chasing enlightenment will never become enlightened. Instead of striving towards some distant goal that you will never reach, Adyashanti invites you to stop and ask: How am I avoiding the enlightenment that is already present in each moment? How am I seeing separation where it doesn't exist?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WpUuNN-BLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WpUuNN-BLw

:wub:

[greybeard]

The "you" who is chasing enlightenment will never become enlightened. Instead of striving towards some distant goal that you will never reach, Adyashanti invites you to stop and ask: How am I avoiding the enlightenment that is already present in each moment? How am I seeing separation where it doesn't exist?


Dan I wish I had a £1 for every time I posted that truth on this thread.
The sun shines forth when clouds are removed.
When obstacles are removed enlightenment shines forth.
The biggest obstacle is the belief in a me, that is the false self spoken of by Eckhart.
Some work has to be done to reveal what you already have.
Its not a goal, nothing to be found nothing to added, but much must be removed.

The first few pages of "The Power of Now" well worth a read, as is the rest of it.
I read the book about 7 times to be sure I got the depth of it.
Eckhart says the words have some information value but they are the carrier of the energy of enlightenment.
Its really all about a high spiritual energy awakening the real self.

Paraphrased from the book
In a suicidal state Eckhart said I can no longer live with myself then came the thought am I one or two?, the self I can no longer live with?. Is there a false self and a true self. The I and the self I can not live with, maybe only one of them is real.


(that is the crux of it, the ego is the false unreal illusionary self)

He was so struck with that thought that the mind stopped He was gripped with a fear, He felt his whole body shaking, he was drawn into a vortex, the fear intensified, he heard a voice say resist nothing, he let go the fear subsided, he felt as though he was sucked into a void, it felt as though the void was within himself he let go. He remembers nothing after that
When he woke he was changed at peace seeing the world through different eyes. He was overwhelmed by LOVE.
He experienced states of overwhelming bliss, then he was able to function normally for a while, then there was the two years of sitting on a park bench while enlightenment matured,

Many millions have bought the Power of Now and benefited from it.
Dont listen to me Im an apprentice so to speak get it from source, read Eckhart Tolle
He is clear there is only one SELF, only consciousness, the Self of the teacher awakes the self of the student.

Dont take my word for it read one who is in that state.

Enlightenment can happen quickly or slowly.
Karma past life work can make it seem quick but it is the result of past life devotion to Truth.

Namaste

[lightblue]

redezra:
lol light Mother gave them antibiotics and aspirins

She didn't give them enlightenment ; )


quiet...

she did not give them enlightenment..there's nothing there to suggest she was enlightened herself..she got beatified/sainted by the catholic establishment for some mumbo jumbo miracles....she was running the "home of the dying" and enjoyed praise, besides catholic establishment for her missionary work in the first place, of ronald reagan, princess diana, times magazine and the likes..she was the first ever celebrity "saint" - famous for her charity work...so, i forgot what was she doing on this thread? :unsure: l

.

[lightblue]

truthseekerdan:
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another.
This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another.
The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!" ~ Kant

Have a great day everyone!

Dan ♥

ye dan, but what's kant got to do with the enlightenment as discussed on this thread? he was alright....understood to be THE father of modern estehtics, ..but like many others , he did quite a bit of a "hit and miss"...he was on about rationalism and not spiritual enlightement..." age of enlightenment" was just another name for "the age of reason" - the 18th century movement in philosophy and science..


The Age of Enlightenment, sometimes called the Age of Reason, refers to the time of the guiding intellectual movement, called The Enlightenment. It covers about a century and a half in Europe, beginning with the publication of Francis Bacon's Novum Organum (1620) and ending with Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason (1781). From the perspective of socio-political phenomena, the period is considered to have begun with the close of the Thirty Years' War (1648) and ended with the French Revolution (1789)....etc

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Age_of_Enlightenment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapere_aude

:yu: l

[greybeard]

http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=teachings

Certainly worth a visit to the site.

Thats the web for the Zen teacher from the video that Dan posted.
Good stuff he did not sit waiting for enlightenment but studied under a Zen master for years then was instructed to go and teach.

That which is seeking to begin with is the ego which cant be enlightened
It must be transcended, Zen masters are very good at teaching how to transcend, first the ego is made docile.
"Famous Zen herding pictures."

Very few who are trained become enlightened as they assume an identity of Zen student or whatever.
Same with ashrams of all kinds.

All belief systems all places where the ego can form an identity are to be released all concepts including the concepts of seeking must go.
It is very deep because it actually takes effort to be that much aware and in the moment that when the the sneaky ego claims it is the doer it is noticed and the thought word and deed surrendered to God.
Thats one way of doing it, remaining fully present works because the ego needs past and future to survive.
The state of enlightenment is a major shift.
Until it happens one is not truly experiencing Self.
You can say I am enlightened now but you are not till the shift happens.
The seed of enlightenment is in all but the mature state of enlightenment is not.
If the mature state was present then there would be no need for teachers of any variety.
Meditation without expectation is helpful.
Doing anything fully focused is helpful.
As Eckhart said I dont want to give the impression that you can sit watching TV drinking beer and you will be enlightened.

The absolute truth is that you are not doing anything its happening but there is a process to go through first before you realize the truth of it.
Seeking is an initial stage of the process and has to happen (Higher Self instigates this through the ego) then there is the realization that what is sought is within, then seeking comes to an end but there is still a process automatically going on.
You are not doing it.
There are paradoxes in this subject and frankly it takes years of study to get a deep understanding of how simple it is.
The study has to happen though.
In India it is rare for one to be enlightened without the grace of the Guru, its an energy transference, Eckhart talks of this too.

Now the good new is that with the 9th wave started and high energy coming in from the solar system many will be enlightened in the twinkling of an eye.
Whatever happens dont resist.


Namaste

[truthseekerdan]

Some might not like this, but that doesn't mean they don't need to know... ;)
Your version of reality is an illusion. It doesn't exist outside your head. Enlightenment is just seeing things as they are-all that's needed is a shift of perception. But beware, Adyashanti warns "there's nothing in it for the ego."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlFkDZC8hA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlFkDZC8hA

[greybeard]

Exactly Dan
Enlightenment is a major shift in perception.
Its what I have saying in this thread for ages.
There is nothing in it for the ego.
There is no ego left.
One sees it all happening.
One is perceiving not doing.
Namaste

Adyashanti’s nondual teachings have been compared to those of the early Zen masters and Advaita Vedanta sages. Expressing both the infinite possibilities and the ordinary simplicity of a spiritually realized life, Adyashanti’s teachings are directed to those who are sincerely called to awaken to their true nature and embody this life-changing realization.


Ramesh Balsekar was the fore most Advaita teacher in India

He said the bigest obstacle was the thought hat there is a doer
His quote
God wrote the play
God produced the play
God is every actor in the play
God is the witness of the play
That is pure advaita
ask Adyshanti
he will no doubt confirm this to be so
I posted it 6 month ago

Namaste

[RedeZra]

she did not give them enlightenment..there's nothing there to suggest she was enlightened herself..she got beatified/sainted by the catholic establishment for some mumbo jumbo miracles....she was running the "home of the dying" and enjoyed praise, besides catholic establishment for her missionary work in the first place, of ronald reagan, princess diana, times magazine and the likes..she was the first ever celebrity "saint" - famous for her charity work...so, i forgot what was she doing on this thread? :unsure: l
[/SIZE]
.

look light if you can't appreciate enlightenment in action around you then how can you hope to achieve it ?

[RedeZra]

Man has grown proud too proud for God


he doesn't know much and yet he denies me

what will he gain ?

besides

where can I go ?

and not take him with me


perhaps it's time for some shock and awe


do you know where his fault lies ?

he assumes we're both humans


but he got both wrong !

[lightblue]

redezra:
look light if you can't appreciate enlightenment in action around you then how can you hope to achieve it ?

with the enlightenment, i associate peace and not "action"...for the enlightenment, i don't look outside..i give teachers, masters, driving instructors etc.a miss... i wouldn't attach "achieving" to it - that's making it an objective and as such belongs to competing parties....

you may read about it, though that might not help you recognise it.. l

.

[greybeard]

This is only for those who want the highest truth.
Funnily enough it aligns with Nassim Haramein explanation that everything comes from emptiness.
who is the doer?

In the background of the video you will notice my avatar Ramana Maharshi
As posted some time back he is famous for saying it is all an illusion, there never was creation or dissolution all is mind of God.
We are but a thought of God and God at the same time.
The human mind cant understand that.
Namaste



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eDXGnSNcVk&feature=related

[greybeard]

The late Ramesh Balsekar had a great sense of humor

Before enlightenment he was a high official in the bank of India (president I think)
In his spare time he translated for Nasargadatta as a result of this relationship the grace of the guru happened and he was enlightened,

The Indians know that the enlightened guru is God realized so it is Gods grace that removes the ego, the perpetrator of illusion.

The paradox is that if "everyones" ego was completely removed the current play would come to an end.

He, Ramesh, said "If you have the choice between enlightenment and winning a £million take the money, after enlightenment there is no one left to enjoy the money."

He also said "If a spiritual teaching is not making life easier for you in this illusion then it is useless."

A lot of what is posted on this thread is about stilling the mind, bring about peace in this incarnation, only God can remove ego.
We can remove obstacles to this happening though and in the process life becomes easier.

Namaste

[lightblue]

.
it's hard to understand what's he on about....poor audio quality ...pity... l

.

[greybeard]

.
it's hard to understand what's he on about....poor audio quality ...pity... l

.

Yes agreed lightblue

I wont try to explain except to say that God is the field of consciousness in which everything appears to arise.
That field is to be found in the seeming empty space in every atom.
The intelligence in space forms the atoms which takes on all the seeming manifestation in the entire cosmos.
The Divine mind projects all.
We are that Divinty.
That the all powerful energy is a vibration of pure Love
Best I can do by way of comment.

Namaste

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

All that´s left is laughter....

I don´t really know who Jeff Foster is. I watched the other parts but part 1 suffices :wink:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuaOye9VyI&feature=channel_video_title


When anybody laughs, he has no mind, no thought, no problem, no suffering.
~ Sri H. W. L. Poonja (Papaji) ~
:humble:

[greybeard]

When anybody laughs, he has no mind, no thought, no problem, no suffering.
~ Sri H. W. L. Poonja (Papaji) ~

Agreed
No self, no problem is the basis of the Buddhist teaching
Self arises from thought

Enlightenment is thoughtless awareness.

Papaji also said the problem (pain and suffering) only occurs when we identify with what the mind is projecting and claim we are the doer.

Ramesh said
"Events happen deeds are done but there is no individual doer there of."

When you are the observer witness there is the awareness that things are just happening of their own accord.
Try this for size
Next time you are out walking draw attention to your feet, you will notice you are not making them move its happening all by itself.
You may have decided destination but then it all happens by itself.
If you are honest you will realize a though materialized from nowhere and you "decided" on that though what you were going to do.
You even claim it was your thought, it wasn't till you identified with it and made it your own.

It helps to be acutely aware of what hand, feet, body is doing without trying to direct or control in any way just witness
It is also very helpful to be aware of the energy moving in the body, It might take practice but you can sense it.
We are at the movies folks and it is our own projection on the screen.
We come from emptiness, we abide in emptiness all materializes from emptiness.

Namaste

[RedeZra]

with the enlightenment, i associate peace and not "action"...for the enlightenment, i don't look outside..i give teachers, masters, driving instructors etc.a miss... i wouldn't attach "achieving" to it - that's making it an objective and as such belongs to competing parties....

you may read about it, though that might not help you recognise it.. l



this post I like light ; )

Enlightenment is also working for peace and happiness for all sentient beings so in some it is visible in selfless deeds

Teresa was the Mother of the motherless in the slums of Calcutta and now the mission has spread to almost all the countries of the world - to help the poorest of the poor with shelter food medicine

[greybeard]

There seems to be a process that unfolds which happens virtually automatically
First there word enlightenment catches the eye and the imagination
Some reading and search for information occurs
Next
The ego is acquisitional, it wants it and leads you up all kinds of blind alleys.
New age workshops abound.

The ego is now a spiritual ego and feels somewhat superior to those who are not awakened or awakening.

It might find a “special” teacher and join the “group” with much ooh and ah at the mention of his or her name.

The teacher might well be genuine and not look for devotees but still the ego likes to be superior and say I am part of something special by implication the other is not because they havent found the truth and you have.

Hopefully by this time some old, tried and tested spiritual practices are being used.

The hold of the ego decreases partly by using these practices and also by being exposed to a higher spiritual vibration by contact with or reading the words of an enlightened sage.

The ego can not stand the power of spiritual truth and will fight with all kinds of seeming rational argument.

However by now Higher Self if pulling you guiding you to your destination.
Its not your past pushing you now.
You would not take golf lessons if you were not destined to play the game.

One teaching may take you so far, it is useful to cross check.
I found that every enlightened teacher said/says the same thing, there is nothing new.
They may give teaching to help ease the passage through life but ultimately they are trying to get you out of the illusion that you are a person, that you are separate from God.
They may recommend different ways of freeing from yourself from the illusion of bondage created by the ego.

The moment you hear the word enlightenment and commit to the path and God the end result is inevitable.

It used to take life times now the whole process is speeding up, many will be enlightened in this lifetime.
Each one who follows the path and it is individual, makes it easier and faster for the next.

By now the mind is becoming quieter, the monkey mind is relatively silent.
Situations are not being taken personally, life is lived more and more in the present moment, there is an acceptance of what is.
You might share what you have found but you dont mind when people “dont get it.”

Ultimate Truth has a vibration of its own it does not need to be defended.
It is permanent unchanging.
What is Truth?
You are Truth, you are unchanged by life, you are pure soul.

How you arrive at that understanding may be different from the way others do.
One thing we can all agree on is, we exist.
That existence is eternal.
That is Truth.
You are not a human, but spirit having a human experience.

At some point in time the teacher will advise you to throw the books away, but for all that you must first have applied your self to discovering the Truth within.
There have been those who have given up and within a short period of time enlightenment occurred
but they put in the work first.

[lightblue]

chris
At some point in time the teacher will advise you to throw the books away, but for all that you must first have applied your self to discovering the Truth within.
There have been those who have given up and within a short period of time enlightenment occurred
but they put in the work first.

i think it's more about keeping your heart open to recognising it ... very fine examples then start flooding in from all over the place...

the better the teacher, the sooner you find you don't need one...in fact, i think you only need one for orientation, the most important "rest" inevitably has to be done withinin one's as selfless self...

not a short course... not uneventful ... :yu: l
.

[greybeard]

chris
At some point in time the teacher will advise you to throw the books away, but for all that you must first have applied your self to discovering the Truth within.
There have been those who have given up and within a short period of time enlightenment occurred
but they put in the work first.

i think it's more about keeping your heart open to recognising it ... very fine examples then start flooding in from all over the place...

the better the teacher, the sooner you find you don't need one...in fact, i think you only need one for orientation, the most important "rest" inevitably has to be done withinin one's as selfless self...

not a short course... not uneventful ... :yu: l
.

Agreed my friend, whatever works.
Many different paths
I can only say what I have experienced and read so far.
Mind you I rarely read or listen to cds now.

Coincidence synchronism and strong pulls which I resisted led me to rather more than one teacher.
Not space here to go into detail but kundalini awakened within my body and I did not even know what it was.
It is not in the realms of British knowledge, there is no way it could be auto sugestion.

The movement was weird and unusual, I was meditating and all of a sudden the upper body started to gyrate, my head brushing the floor, almost a physical impossibility, a few weeks later I mentioned these symptoms to a friend and he sugested getting in touch with a teacher in London
He sent me information which tailed completely with what was happening and mentioned that some friends of his were going out to see and India Sage Dr Goels
who had written books on Kundalini, I went.
There were more coincidences etc to get me to go but go I did.
If my heart had not been open and my head able to think out of the box it would not have ventured to India.
Link for one of the late Dr Goel books.

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDK142/


In passing there are level of enlightenment, one of the first is a change in perception where there is no longer the filter of ego, it seems complete.
It is not though classic God realization as attested to by sages in India for ten thousand years before Christ, the ancient Vedas
Simply its a higher spiritual vibration, nothing but atoms in movement.

Getting a still mind is progress enough, nothing is taken personally for more than a moment, nothing carried on to the next moment.
life's challenges remain exactly the same but attitude is somewhat changed.

Namaste

[lightblue]

chris
The ego can not stand the power of spiritual truth and will fight with all kinds of seeming rational argument.

"seemingly rational argument"..i think you meant "rational argument" against entrusing your development into a teachers hands...i'd say the very same rational mind can bring you into the clutches of a not so competent/committed instructor....


Coincidence synchronism and strong pulls which I resisted led me to rather more than one teacher.
Not space here to go into detail but kundalini awakened within my body and I did not even know what it was.

thanks for oointing this out, i feel this is very important.. coincidence sinchronicities are best not ignored ...it makes the path less traumatic - accepting that everything comes your way for a reason....tracking it and looking back at instances is fun...

for the ones looking for orientation, i'd say loook no further than your entries on this thread...i agree with what you are often reiterating - it's all really very simple provided you pay attention to every little detail in and around you without you getting attached to your sense of outwardly self - your self/ego in relation to others...because if you have a habit of doing that, you are in competition....you wanna avoid that..may bog you down for a long while... :yu: l

.

[greybeard]

My head is in the tigers mouth.
Some will know what I mean Laughing.
Namaste

[lightblue]

.

My head is in the tigers mouth.
Some will know what I mean Laughing.
Namaste

i honestly don't... haven't come accross that expression...:noidea: l

.

[truthseekerdan]

Without the silence and calm within our being, there cannot be any real appreciation of life. By moving deeper within our conscious mind, we enter an elevated state of understanding and enlightenment where profound truth is abundant. When we find the silence and calm within our being we begin to experience the true joy and meaning of oneness which reveals a sense of the eternal rhythms of our own true nature.

As we become more organized, we become more self-aware and as we become more self-aware, we become enlightened. As we become enlightened, we become universally aware and as we become universally aware, we eventually become universal. As a universal being, we realize the universe is doubling back upon itself to become aware of it self. As the universe becomes aware of itself, it becomes the ultimate presence and as the ultimate presence, it is all things, just as we are all things to each other in this universe.

Namaste

[greybeard]

Thanks for your input Dan, always appreciated.

Before enlightenment ---- Chopping wood fetching water
After enlightenment ------Chopping wood fetching water

So what has changed?
Perecption has, the world is no longer seen through the lens of ego mind.
The famous Zen pictures of herding oxen, the beast is tamed.

Yoga is union with God
In India there is a linage of Masters goin back thousands of years
The traditional way is to study under a master

There are various yogas some of the heart and some of the mind.
Advaita is the removal of mind by the mind.

The method suggested by Ramana is Self enquiry, Searching within for the answer to the question "Who am I?"
So the student spends many years learning from the master and all bing well eventually becomes a master.
The master can say that the world is the same but perception has changed.

Nothing is taken personally life goes on as before but attitude is entirely different as there is no person left.
There is no enemy out there.

Ego requires identification with the me story, Advaita removes that idea or atleast tames ego to the degree that the mind is quiet.
So the paradox is that a teacher can say "Just be in the moment", total acceptance of what is, but it took years of study under a master to get the quiet mind.
The Indians call the usual state of mind "The monkey mind"

The path of heart is complete humility and devotion to God.

Yogananda advocated and taught Kriya yoga as science,
The thread "A spiritual diary" here is full of his teaching.
His most famous books "An autobiography of a Yogii" and "Divine romance"
.Both well worth reading.

Sepia in another thread here out lines the various pathways.

Science is now catching up see the video a litle further back " Science = Energy = God"
In it the speaker read a book which stated that Yogis thousands of years back shrank their consciousness in meditation to investigate the atom and found within a vortex, the speaker then persued that truth through scientific research.

Th enlightened state is normal, our state abnormal.
Followers of a teacher see it as special, it is not but it is an entirely differnt state which takes time to enter, concepts and belief systems are removed by ones effort and the grace of God
We all have that seed within but it has to be nurtured.

The advice is "Take one step towards God and He will take ten towards you"
One Master was asked "Are you God?" the answer "Yes but so are you but you dont know it yet"

It can be talked about but then it becomes a concept, only subjective experience gives that knowing.

Enlightenment has various level of spiritual energy but is seen as kindergarten by even higher states.

We are in the university of consciousness here and when we grauate we go on to celestial realms to continue our journey.
We can only go so far here as planet Earth is comparatively low vibration very dense, much negativity, violence, ego.

In the west enlightened teachers are not common so it is not that easy to get a master to study under.
it takes enormous spiritual energy to overcome the ego so the master could be considered to be at high voltage and through entrainment lifts the voltage of the student.

The ego will disregard what does not suit it
It thinks it can be an enlightened ego it thinks it master.
No the ego can not be enlightened it is the obstacle to be transcended.

Eckhart says that the words that flow through him have some infromation value but are just the carrier of the energy of enlightenment.
It is all down to spiritual vibration.

However the overall spiritual vibration is being raised and it would seem some separation is occurring.

The violence increasing but so is compassion.

If Dolores Cannon and some others are to be believed we are heading for a new earth.
It would seem that we are heading for an event where many will be enlightened.

Let us pray and hope so.

Namaste

[greybeard]

More science and spirituality.
Heady stuff.
C


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdvxnajpZ3o&feature=player_embedded

[giovonni]

Wow Chris, maybe another listen or two...then...
If~ i can keep my monkey mind quiet (long enough) to allow the waves to pass through the two slits in my head, i'm hoping to grasp and make sense (of the real hidden order) that has been hidden from all of us for way too long ~ on that other side :dizzy:

http://info.detnews.com/dn/history/olymich/images/handy.jpg

[Roseheart]

Thank you Greybeard for this thread.
I have been stuck in the other threads here and have only just looked here...
It feels like home... I will now go back to page one and read more.
I too had the kundalini experience without knowing what had happened. It started after doing yoga fairly intensely for a few months.
I discovered after the fact the 'naming' of it. It was beautiful because it was completely natural when it occured and I couldn't label it in any way - just experience it and enjoy it. I've since heard you can have a fairly rough time with kundalini but my experiences have only been positive.
I agree with you that life actually goes on as the vibration changes - it is the same world with all it's challenges yet, everything is appreciated and interacted with in a more flowing way... Things pass by with grace, even when anger rises. There is more a moment to moment movement and a real recognition when you are 'in story' and not flowing. All the ego stuff still happens - it is just so much clearer when it does. It 'feels' clunky and heavy when the negative ego pops in...
Many blessings to everyone contributing on this thread. x

[greybeard]

Thank you Greybeard for this thread.
I have been stuck in the other threads here and have only just looked here...
It feels like home... I will now go back to page one and read more.
I too had the kundalini experience without knowing what had happened. It started after doing yoga fairly intensely for a few months.
I discovered after the fact the 'naming' of it. It was beautiful because it was completely natural when it occured and I couldn't label it in any way - just experience it and enjoy it. I've since heard you can have a fairly rough time with kundalini but my experiences have only been positive.
I agree with you that life actually goes on as the vibration changes - it is the same world with all it's challenges yet, everything is appreciated and interacted with in a more flowing way... Things pass by with grace, even when anger rises. There is more a moment to moment movement and a real recognition when you are 'in story' and not flowing. All the ego stuff still happens - it is just so much clearer when it does. It 'feels' clunky and heavy when the negative ego pops in...
Many blessings to everyone contributing on this thread. x

Hi good to see you.
The awakening caused no problems however the sage said when this happens you are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti.
So material changes happened--- business went --- family went amicably-- house went -- car went-- boat went---.
So I have no responsibilities and just enough to live on.
So while some might see that as a problem I am comfortable and accept it.
I feel looked after, such is the grace of God

Chris

Ps I went from Chairman of this and that, successful businessman, sailing champion, performing musician to non entity.

Do I care? not on bit.
Divine madness.
My friends point to what I seem to have lost but are not aware of what I have "gained".

ch
PPs all this happened with Divine timing.
Children grown up, Ex has the family house.
Nobody lost out, all are cared for.
I could not of organized all that happened.
ch

[greybeard]

This thread has had 28,000 visits to my surprise..
I would like to thank all visitors and contributors.

I have learned much and hope to continue to do so from all who contribute here.

People are obviously interested in the subject and thats a good sign.

Seems we are moving into a Golden Age and we need to be ready, choosing love instead of fear.

When the first post was made in original Avalon I thought it might last a few weeks and I am amazed that it is still running.

I would like to see more people posting here.
Its your thread I only started it.

All points of view on the subject are welcome, they might be different from mine and that is healthy.
Debate is important and here it has always happened in a respectful way and hopefully will continue to do so.

So please feel free to contribute.

Thanks Chris

[truthseekerdan]

A man approaches a Zen Master and asks to be shown the path to enlightenment. The Master replies, "Okay, follow me," stands up, and walks the man to a nearby river and into the water. Without warning, the Master forces the man's head under the water and holds it there as he struggles violently for his life, until he is nearly dead. At last the Master pulls the man up, gasping for air, and says, "When you want to be enlightened as badly as you wanted to take your next breath just now, come back and see me."

So those seem to be our two main choices: Either we're presently, already enlightened and simply don't know it, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that can help us achieve the recognition that there is nothing to achieve -- or, we're clearly very far from enlightenment and we need to be willing to sacrifice our very lives to get to the Truth, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that will help us achieve that. In either case, good luck! In the meantime, it seems to me that it behooves us spiritual seekers to get on with our day.

Namaste

[greybeard]

A man approaches a Zen Master and asks to be shown the path to enlightenment. The Master replies, "Okay, follow me," stands up, and walks the man to a nearby river and into the water. Without warning, the Master forces the man's head under the water and holds it there as he struggles violently for his life, until he is nearly dead. At last the Master pulls the man up, gasping for air, and says, "When you want to be enlightened as badly as you wanted to take your next breath just now, come back and see me."

So those seem to be our two main choices: Either we're presently, already enlightened and simply don't know it, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that can help us achieve the recognition that there is nothing to achieve -- or, we're clearly very far from enlightenment and we need to be willing to sacrifice our very lives to get to the Truth, and there may or may not be teachers or methods that will help us achieve that. In either case, good luck! In the meantime, it seems to me that it behooves us spiritual seekers to get on with our day.

Namaste

Im awy to chop wood and fetch water.

John Lennon
"Nothing is real. nothing to go on about"

C

[lightblue]

Im awy to chop wood and fetch water.

John Lennon
"Nothing is real. nothing to go on about"


except consciousness?


.

[greybeard]

Consciousness explained in a debate by Krishamurty and David Bohm

Well worth watching after a slow start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohJuREhJ_OY&feature=player_embedded

[Virilis]

I always thought that Mark Hedsel's treatise on the nature of the Ego was quite intriguing. He approached the subject from an esoteric perspective in his book, "The Zelator: A Modern Initiate Explores the Ancient Mysteries".

There's an electronic version of his book that you can access via this link:

The Zelator (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/zelator.pdf)

Here's a brief excerpt from the book, that illustrates his conception of the Ego & its relation to our other Spiritual 'bodies'.


"In esotericism, the Ego is the Self. This Self is a droplet of the Universal Mind, or Godhead. The Sanskrit term, manas, which may be translated as 'the immortal individual', as much as the 'higher mind', is the equivalent of the real Ego. It is that droplet of the Godhead which has sought experience through involvement with matter. This minute particle of the Godhead is directed into matter in order to perceive Itself, or to gain experience in the realm of Its own creation.

Because it holds this direct connection with the Godhead, the fully developed Ego is indestructible. However, through the effects of incarnation, and the consequent darkening through involvement in matter, the human Ego does not remain omniscient, like its Godhead source. In this sense - in that its cosmic knowledge is limited by the 'hooding' mask of selfhood - the Ego rarely works with its full spiritual potential. From incarnation to incarnation the Ego dwells in what must be termed spiritual darkness in comparison with the light of the spiritual planes. Even so, it is possible for the Ego, through its own efforts, to regain its former potential, and to remove this darkening selfhood from the eyes.

While in life - chained to a physical body - the Ego must work into matter through three organs or 'bodies', called in esotericism the Astral, the Etheric and the Physical. These bodies are controlled by the human Ego, which the hermetic literature describes as sweeping down from the Spiritual World like a great bird - a pelican, phoenix or swan - to dwell in flesh on the material realm.

The Ego is not entirely alone when cast adrift from the higher Spiritual world. It is accompanied by three higher Spiritual bodies, invisible to ordinary vision. Like the goddess Venus, the Ego is attended by three Graces, a triad of Spiritual beings, who weave a stately dance around her. In these three beings, we trace the three higher Spiritual companions of the new-born Ego: in modern esoteric literature, these are called the Atman, Buddhi and Manas.

The Ego is pulled to the Earth realm by three lower bodies (Astral, Etheric & Physical). These cushion it from, and link it with, the material world.

The Seven Bodies

ATMAN:
BUDDHI: Spiritual bodies not yet adequately developed by non-initiates. Still embryonic in ordinary man
MANAS:

EGO: The sacred SELF. It is this invisible body that most Westerners are now developing. This is the seat of control over Will.

ASTRAL: The Spiritual body of emotions, desires etc.

ETHERIC: The Spiritual body of memory. It maintains the physical in cellular activity, and transmits emotions and desires to the physical.

PHYSICAL: The only visible body in man. By nature (that is, when divorced from the etheric) it enters a state of death, and is in molecular activity. During life it is maintained in cellular activity, through its immersion in the Etheric.



The Ego is itself a reflecting glass - a sort of mirror of potential - so that the Astral below it is reflected in the Manas above: the Physical is reflected in the highest Atman. This mirror image sets out the future development of mankind: for example, it is through the development of the Spiritual potential in the Atman that the physical will be redeemed."

I like Hedsel's metaphor of the Ego functioning like a sort of mirror of potential. Perhaps it is more important to polish this mirror rather than transcend it?

[Roseheart]

Hi good to see you.
The awakening caused no problems however the sage said when this happens you are in the taxi being driven home by Shakti.
So material changes happened--- business went --- family went amicably-- house went -- car went-- boat went---.
So I have no responsibilities and just enough to live on.
So while some might see that as a problem I am comfortable and accept it.
I feel looked after, such is the grace of God

Chris

Ps I went from Chairman of this and that, successful businessman, sailing champion, performing musician to non entity.

Do I care? not on bit.
Divine madness.
My friends point to what I seem to have lost but are not aware of what I have "gained".

ch
PPs all this happened with Divine timing.
Children grown up, Ex has the family house.
Nobody lost out, all are cared for.
I could not of organized all that happened.
ch[/QUOTE]

This is funny because I too have gone from one extreme to the other!
I was a famous person her in Australia when I was younger and enjoyed my time in the limelight but felt a yearning, ...
I am now living hand to mouth, don't have a job currently, have lost my 'status' in the public domain and have never been happier.
Next year we move to the middle of nowhere.
I am just me now.

[greybeard]

Yes Roseheart

There is tremendous freedom in letting go.
What a relief in not having to be right.
The various occupations required a degree of accuracy.
When I had the home for the elderly absolutely everything had to be documented.
There were written procedures for everything.

A short story

it was a small home only 16 residents.
Environmental health came to call. (health and safety)
There was a resident in the kitchen making a snack.
The inspector was not happy, I pointed out it was the persons home therefore she had every right to be in the kitchen.
The inspector pointed out she did not have a hygiene diploma and they could close down the home if residents continued to use the kitchen.
I informed social work, who also inspect and was informed they could close down the home if I did not allow residents in the kitchen.

I referred one authority to the other.

Seemingly there was top level management meetings to argue out who was right. At great expense no doubt.
After three month a decision was reached
I had to provide cooking facilities else where for the residents to make snacks.
Residents were to be supervised during this.
Lord above they had survived many years in their own kitchens and none were that infirm.
The facilities were never used.
The stress level running the place was horrendous I burst an ulcer at one point.
That was fifteen years ago and I have fond memories of residents and staff --- angels all.
So to say the least I am poor but happy.

Meditation etc restored sanity or what ever passes for that condition. lol

Just me is good.

Chris

[Roseheart]

Greybeard your heart is beautiful and I'll bet the residents and the staff benefited from their time with you.

[greybeard]

Thanks Roseheart

We all have it. (a beautiful spiritual heart)
When you can admit to your vulnerability and let love flow, knowing full well you may get hurt, then life provides opportunity for spiritual growth.

He who has not been hurt has not lived and has not truly loved.
Love any way.

If people knew better they would do better.

We cant help our conditioning which may make trusting difficult.
Trust anyway but not naively.

Love the person without judging the action, yet be aware of what is a life supporting act. appropriate or otherwise.

Namaste

Chris

[Zampano]

I actually wanted to post a quote from a book I am currently reading, which is called "Journey of Souls" from Michael Newton.
The time has come for me to dig deeper into the soul issue. I think this quote goes good together with the topic of this thread.

Now, this thread became to big for me to follow I checked just a couple of times but now I came to the point where I think I really understand what this thread is about.
The time is right. Thank you greybeard and all the other people for your contribution.

In the last 2 months I had several discussions with friends, who studied philosophy, physics (including quantum physics) and maths and it allowed me to slowly connect the dots for me from all these various perspectives in connection to spiriutal teachings.
Which is really ecxiting I have to say. Doesnt mean it is the only truth.

Well the quote goes like this:

Asian Buddhist say enlightenment is seeing the absolute soul ego reflected in the relative human ego and acting through life.

Maybe you know these sentence already and its a basic for your knowledge-for me its new and very valueable. Maybe not and it will help you.

Until know enlightenment meant to me the spiritual event seeing, that everything is connected with each other, but somehow it never satisfied me 100%

[Zampano]

But there is a question which keeps me busy...I hope I will find the right words.

I read there are devas in nature and that they are shaping trees and flowers and all this beauty. Is nature the perfect model of gods will? It is no secret that when you go into nature, that you can "recharge" your batteries.
For me being in nature is to be in a (depends on whether it is park in a big city or a natural untouched forrest) place close to perfection.

Who are Devas? Advanced souls or another system? Why isnt it there a formula that creates that? Or is there?

I think that we are also able (with lots of dedication and training) to shape the smallest partical from wave into matter. What are your thoughts?

And what happens to a soul when it reaches the end of the incarnation cycle? Do they become creators on a higher scale?

My thoughts, oh my
Questions and more questions are coming...and its exciting

[greybeard]

Glad you are excited Zampano and you have every right to be.
Yes there are devas in nature -- its not my subject so I wont venture an opinion.
Everything is conscious --- Everything, atoms in movement -- God the Creator in every atom.

Only humans are aware of self in the way that they are.
Animals are too but at a different level of consciousness.

Leaving aside the word devas

When the cycle of karma on this earth is left behind for good the soul goes to the celestial realms to continue the journey home.
More adventures more experiences more growth.
This earth is like kindergarten as far as spiritual evolution goes.
In rare cases the soul completes the journey and is completely one with the Creator.
As I understand it there are level of enlightenment and therefore degrees/levels of spiritual energy.
The energy of the Creator is beyond measurement as it is infinite.

So yes we may have an ability to create that we dont have here, we are on average very limited as far as manifesting/creating goes.
An enlightened one has more ability than most though they can collapse the wave into matter.
There are quite a few stories of yogis in India who have done amazing things --- some frauds but some genuine.
Keep asking others may reply.
If I dont know I will say so.
Chris

[Zampano]

Thank you for responding to my questions

Yes, we are limited here in our lives on planet earth and it is probably not necessary for me to create things out of thin air...there are other more important things here to do and for the growing process.
But its interesting to talk about it :)

However these next stages where are we going to evolve...sooner or later...
we will probably not understand as soul in a human body on earth now
Step by step

[9eagle9]

When we can create out of thin air we run less of a risk being a slave to anyone. I'm not sure if there's anything more important. Creating out of thin air doesn't precisely mean material goods. If you're in the right place its probably more the creation of circumstances that otherwise would not be created. Then again the more you have the more good you can do.

[greybeard]

Being able to create/manifest goes hand in hand with spiritual integrity and the level of vibration.
To give some the power to create would be like giving a very young child a box of matches to play with.
We get these abilities when we are mature enough to use the ability for the highest good of self and others.

I agree this ability will free us but at the moment some would use it to enslave.

Chris

[Ernie Nemeth]

I'll add my two cents.

I have lost all material possessions to speak of in the last almost four years. House, savings, car, driver's license, proffessional license, etc. I have gone from being an average Joe to a borderline crimminal as the government of my country has redifined correct social behavior and recast all the "learned" modes of living from earlier years. I have not changed, but the rules have. Those changes has resulted in my becoming an outcast.

Having said that, and pushing my willful ego out of the way for a moment, the experience of losing everything has resulted in the revalueing of my priorities. I now value very little the things of this world. I don't care about sales, or product loyalty or petro-points cards or areo-plan miles. I do not fear the authority of government. I do not heed the fear-mongers. And I do not jump on the band wagon of the newest fad like global-warming, terrorists, investment strategies or current political wranglings.

The gift of poverty is subtle and sublime. It is overcast by ego-centric concerns that can leave the gift burried beneath the detritus of "trying to survive". Poverty is actually the forgotten abundance of selfhood stripped of selfish concerns and false beliefs. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter heaven because a rich man will be self-absorbed with maintaining his lofty status and confuse that with self-importance. To sum up: the poor man forgets he is in heaven while the rich man forgets he is in hell.

Love this thread, thanks Chris!

[greybeard]

Ernie you lift my heart.
Once a person seriously commits to the search for spiritual truth, life changes radically, basic needs are met.
There is a sense of freedom unknown before.

A story

Yogananda was giving a talk a Carnegie Hall New York
Some intuition told him to remove anything of value from his coat. He did.
When he came to get the coat which was a present from his students it had gone.
He was not pleased.
His friends seeing his displeasure said "Dont worry we will get you another"

"Its not that" he said

They left me with the responsibility of the hat and gloves.

All you said is so Ernie
We can have any material thing as long as we are not attached to it.
Some times we have to loose all before we get that.
Then slowly but surely, without wanting any thing, life improves materially.

We dont have a car but I have a free bus pass.
I dont have to park it, I dont have to insure it, I dont have to maintain it, I dont have to put diesel in it, I dont have to drive it -- the bus company does.

Aint life good!!!!!

Chris

Ps I have a gratitude prayer at night which keeps me on track.
I start with the moment I open my eyes and make my way through the whole day.
Its amazing what you can find in a day that is good and wholsome if you really look

At one point in my life I was really low -- as a child I nearly died twice.

Dad saw me sinking into dispair.

He said
"Count not your past misfortunes, of which you have had a few, but count your present blessings of which there are many."

His childhood was so bad he ran away from home age 15, lied about his age, joined the Royal Navy and was at the Battle of Jutland in HMS Hood 6 weeks later, and I though I had a raw deal --- Ha Ha

[greybeard]

Relationships


There is as saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”
How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.
The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.
There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.
Why?
Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.
This is why.
There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.
The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.
There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.
So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?
By allowing it to be, that’s how.
There is enormous power for change in allowing.
Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.
We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.
When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.
You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.
Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.
Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.
The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.
The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.
The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.
See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.
Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?
Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.
“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.
Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.
You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.
It’s a state of non-judgmental love.
The situation is as it is.
As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.
Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.
The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.
There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.
What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.
Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.
So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.
If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.
The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of uncondional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”
On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.
These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.
This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.
A stepping stone if you will.
At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.
All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.

[greybeard]

Consciousness is lowered by fear


Love raises it


The so called powers that be, benefit greatly from a fear ridden population.

As individual consciousness is raised it affects and benefits all.

One in the enlightened state lifts all greatly

The controllers fear a raised consciousness more than anything.

I had the thought that we may attribute to much potential to HARRP to create earth quakes etc and the overall ability of the so called controllers.

Im not saying HARRP chem trails and all the rest is ineffective but not as powerful as we are led to believe.

Volcanoes and all natural events were happening long before there were humans on the planet.

I can just see me arriving in heaven and saying HARRP sent me here.

Excuse me tying to make light of serious matters but in part I see the fear spreading, coupled with the illusion of power over us, as
a distraction from the raising of consciousness.

I can get sucked into watching too many videos with the end of the human race being spelled out when I should be spending time living life to the full and appreciating the gift of life here.

I do spend time every day thinking about the Creator but probably not enough.

The journey of the soul is a million times more important than anything else to my mind.
That has to be the priority for me.

Im not denying that it is important to be aware of what is out there, just a question of longterm priorities.

Where can I best spend my time?

Regards and respectful to all who search for truth of all kinds, there is a place for everything.

Chris

Namaste

[luciole]

Ernie you lift my heart.
Once a person seriously commits to the search for spiritual truth, life changes radically, basic needs are met.
There is a sense of freedom unknown before.

A story

Yogananda was giving a talk a Carnegie Hall New York
Some intuition told him to remove anything of value from his coat. He did.
When he came to get the coat which was a present from his students it had gone.
He was not pleased.
His friends seeing his displeasure said "Dont worry we will get you another"

"Its not that" he said

They left me with the responsibility of the hat and gloves.

All you said is so Ernie
We can have any material thing as long as we are not attached to it.
Some times we have to loose all before we get that.
Then slowly but surely, without wanting any thing, life improves materially.

We dont have a car but I have a free bus pass.
I dont have to park it, I dont have to insure it, I dont have to maintain it, I dont have to put diesel in it, I dont have to drive it -- the bus company does.

Aint life good!!!!!

Chris

Ps I have a gratitude prayer at night which keeps me on track.
I start with the moment I open my eyes and make my way through the whole day.
Its amazing what you can find in a day that is good and wholsome if you really look

At one point in my life I was really low -- as a child I nearly died twice.

Dad saw me sinking into dispair.

He said
"Count not your past misfortunes, of which you have had a few, but count your present blessings of which there are many."

His childhood was so bad he ran away from home age 15, lied about his age, joined the Royal Navy and was at the Battle of Jutland in HMS Hood 6 weeks later, and I though I had a raw deal --- Ha Ha

Thank you Grey Beard! Your stories, your wisdom, are very inspiring!

Yes, gratitude prayers are wonderfull, because, you realise how many times you were blessed in a day, and it sometimes has this magical feeling to it!
I once was in the middle of a severe depression and everything in my life seemed painted in black and grey.
I was having big financial problems, but I had internet, so I was spending time browsing on self help web sites and what not. And one day a phrase jumped into my eyes:
"count your blessings".
Every night enumerate what you have gratitude for in your day.

The first night, I found one thing only, but heck I was so low down that I decided to start again the next day. Four nights later my list had grown much much longer, and I found myself crying tears of joy, because my life was filled with miracles and beautifull people around me, but the pain was blinding me!

So yes count your blessings, miracles are not only for others!

Namaste Grey Beard

Life is great!!!
:whoo:

[greybeard]

Humans we are not!!!
We tend to forget that we are spirit --- consciousness having a human experience.

While we are here we are bound by the Cosmic law governing human experience.

In the words of Christ -- "Wear the world like a loose garment"

Why worry about 2012 and all that goes with this incarnation - we chose all the highlights of this embodiment.
Some challenging, some joyful, some difficult, some requiring courage, many rewarding moments.

In a fearless state enjoy the moment whatever it brings.

Chris
Namaste

[greybeard]

Thanks to Truth seeker Dan for this video.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOTQSbEvxbU&feature=player_embedded

[aranuk]

Wise words again Chris! I've read a lot of posts tonight on this thread. What else can I add?

Stan

[aranuk]

Dearest Chris, Can you explain something that I was told by a very reliable psychic friend about 13 yrs ago? She told me a lot of things which were indeed most relevant to me at the time and she said that her guide who she called "watcher" told her to tell me the name of my Higher Self or Extended Self which ever you prefer was called Aranuk. I was told afterwards in conversation with her when I asked why she said something so bewildering to me. She said that as far as she was concerned I had "unconsciously" wished for a name. I had never ever heard that a HS did indeed have a name. Like you Chris I have been meditating for many years since I was a boy and I am now in the same year as you are in age. I was under the impression that if you know something's name you have power over it. I know that "I" or "i" is both the same or shall I say part of the same individual spiritual entity and that part is also a smaller part of a larger something of Spirit. We are all part of the Creator Being I know. In a higher plane of existence when we have no physical body what do we call each entity in our telepathic state of being? In this life I am called Stan and in other incarnations I was called for example, Bert, Mable, Christine, Diana etc. So is it possible that we do indeed have a name that we behold in the higher planes to avoid confusion?

Namaste

Stan

[truthseekerdan]

posted by aranuk: So is it possible that we do indeed have a name that we behold in the higher planes to avoid confusion?

Hi Stan, welcome to Chris' thread. :cool:

Just wanted to give my perspective to your question. If you are referring to the "higher planes" as the spirit planes then there is no confusion, since in Oneness you would recognize "another you" (individuality) instantly without the need for a form or a name -- just pure consciousness.

Hope this helps. :)

Namaste ~ Dan

[Ernie Nemeth]

I have been taught that the naming of things is an agent of separation. To name something excludes it from totality. That is why, I believe, in my meditations I have been many times warned against naming the Source. To do so would sever the truth of unity and disrupt the focus of my intention, which is to merge with All. The naming of things does not change reality, as such. But it does change my relationship with the named. The named is no longer ineffable in the mind of the namer.

In one of my books I equate the naming of things with counting. To count is a function each of us does many times every day. We count the time, our money, the stars. We count our age, how many friends we have, how many places we've lived, etc. And as we count we focus on the unreal because there is only One, in fact. Counting and the naming of things are methods we employ to prove that we are alone, isolated and small (inconsequential).

Again, though, it matters not one moot. We are separate because we want to be. When it no longer serves us we will drop the charade. Until then, names, concepts, math, and the rest has its place. They serve to hold us hostage to our wilfull ignorance.

With each idol we place on our alters we slowly learn that none will ever satisfy. Eventually, and inevitably, we will clear our alters of all idols and invite the one true Guest into our hearts. Then names will no longer be of consequence.

Your heart and mine are one.

[greybeard]

Thanks Stan for your input.
Dan is correct.

Ernie what you say is exactly so.

There is a progression accompanied by- a raising of consciousness.

We live in a heavy density world and the body to cope with that, it is hard wired vis the nervous system to accommodate a fairly low level of spiritual vibration/energy.
As an example say that God is infinity as far as voltage goes, Archangels 50.000 volts - humans - 250 volts on average.
All the same energy (God) but varying degrees of it.
The highest vibration a human could stand on this planet with a modified system is say 1000 volts.
We literally modify the brain and body through spiritual endeavor to accept increasingly higher vibration.

Now here is the paradox -- Jesus said "Of my self I do nothing, it is the Father within who is the doer"
Ramesh Balsakar said " the biggest obstacle to spiritual progess is the thought that I am the doer"
"Events happen deeds are done but there is no doer there of"
He also said "God gave you an ego let Him remove it"
So you could say that your True Self gave you the ego and will help to remove it if that is your destiny for this incarnation.

Dr David Hawkins said " Nothing is causing anything to happen, everything is happening moment by moment as evolution of potential"

Me likes to take credit for doing.

There is no person, Parsons said.
Events just happen.
We witness the events.
Ultimately we are God.

This video might help, this is a trailer but the full film can be found via Google - might be on U tube or a torrent
I have watched the complete film but not sure were I downloaded it from it may be here on Avalon .
Well worth the effort of finding
"Who is driving the dream bus?"

Thanks to Double Helix full version on his link below = two posts down

Chris

[aranuk]

Many thanks Chris, Dan and Ernie. There are many wise people in this congregation isn't there? That should keep me on my toes!

Namaste

Stan

[DoubleHelix]

This video might help, this is a trailer but the full film can be found via Google - might be on U tube or a torrent
I have watched the complete film but not sure were I downloaded it from it may be here on Avalon .
Well worth the effort of finding
"Who is driving the dream bus?"




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AVQFWkfSls

I was quite intrigued to watch this! I managed to track down the full feature version, previously posted on Avalon a couple of months back

http://theavalonfiles.com/stream/Whos_Driving_The_Dreambus/index.html