Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[greybeard]

The Ocean is not at war with its waves. No wave can threaten the totality of the Ocean.

Light is not at war with darkness - darkness cannot threaten light.

Consciousness is not at war with anything. It is not opposed to anything - it is not the opposite of anything - only thought sees opposites.

All is allowed to arise and dissolve in the vast, oceanic, open space that you are, just as all waves are allowed to arise and fall in the Ocean, which remains undisturbed, always.

The waves may rise and crash - but in the Ocean's depths, there is silence.

Silence, and knowing.

- Jeff Foster

[Star1111]

The Ocean is not at war with its waves. No wave can threaten the totality of the Ocean.

Light is not at war with darkness - darkness cannot threaten light.

Consciousness is not at war with anything. It is not opposed to anything - it is not the opposite of anything - only thought sees opposites.

All is allowed to arise and dissolve in the vast, oceanic, open space that you are, just as all waves are allowed to arise and fall in the Ocean, which remains undisturbed, always.

The waves may rise and crash - but in the Ocean's depths, there is silence.

Silence, and knowing.

- Jeff Foster

Dear Greybeard - this is a FANTASTIC thread and there is SO MUCH information on it.
I can't go through the 63 pages now as I'm at work but I intend to spend time going through each thread.
This is JUST what I need to learn further and your posts in this thread in particular really resonate with me.
It was an "AHA" moment for me, as I have always thought and known about a lot of what you say .............. without actually knowing it, if that makes sence.
I am SO excited to have found this thread and I think it is really going to solidify (for want of a better word) a lot for me
THANK YOU so much for starting this.

Much LOVE to you

[starsha]

The Ocean is not at war with its waves. No wave can threaten the totality of the Ocean.

Light is not at war with darkness - darkness cannot threaten light.

Consciousness is not at war with anything. It is not opposed to anything - it is not the opposite of anything - only thought sees opposites.

All is allowed to arise and dissolve in the vast, oceanic, open space that you are, just as all waves are allowed to arise and fall in the Ocean, which remains undisturbed, always.

The waves may rise and crash - but in the Ocean's depths, there is silence.

Silence, and knowing.

- Jeff Foster

ohhhhhhhh i LOVE Jeff Foster. This quote is amazing, perfect, wow.

I had a private phone session with him once and it was amazing. What a guy ....

Thanks for sharing this one Grey Beard :)

[starsha]

E9BBy3aidRE

[greybeard]

One of teachers that I listen to, Dr David Hawkins, said that at one point he experienced all of the horrendous things that have happened to human beings-- he became an atheist.
He could not believe in a god who made this suffering happen.
At one point, many years later, he was dying in the depth of "hell" and called out "If there is a God I ask him to help me" Enlightenment happened.

He now says that everything has potential but nothing is making or causing anything to happen.
Evolution of consciousness is happening by itself.
First we had the animals that could only survive by killing others for food (Dinosaurs) --- eventually they became extinct now we have a mix -- grazing animals etc.
We have choice to eat meat and fish or become vegetarians--vegans (not getting into that discussion)
Consciousness is evolving to know its true self but we had to go through the process.

Ramesh Balsekar says that we dont actually have free will-- conditioning, genes, DNA the works dictates what we do and think.
He maintains there is only one Higher Self which we share.
That Higher Self experiences everything through all life forms.

Its beyond understanding.

One other theory is that nothing is actually happening, its all Maya--- Indras dream.
Only the Mind of God is real--- we are that.

Frankly your guess is as good as mine.

All I can say is that I have experienced, what I believe to be the Love of God, flowing in through the crown chakra and filling me with a feeling of bliss that lasted several days.

I have also had the dark nights of the souls that lasted and lasted--- I felt alone and unloved.
However.
I feel very positive about the future of mankind

Chris

[starsha]

Greybeard,

i found one i thought you would like. :)

YWwe8HzUJu8

[greybeard]

Yes Starsha I could not help but laugh and it is amazing how many Gurus have a picture of Ramana Maraharshi in the background.
Thanks
Chris.

[starsha]

Yes Starsha I could not help but laugh and it is amazing how many Gurus have a picture of Ramana Maraharshi in the background.
Thanks
Chris.

yeah i have noticed that too about Ramana, what are your thoughts on him? I'm curious to know what your expereince with him is, if any.

Her laughing fit put me into a laughing fit, it's contagious. :)

[greybeard]

Hi Starsha

Ramesh Balsekar called Ramana "The Guru's Guru"

I started of with Yogananda then after a year of reading his work I went on to Ramana.
His main tool was "Self Enquirey" = Who am I.
Who is it who had the thought?
Every though examined for agenda and looking for the source.
Again much time spent on reading his work.
Sai Baba also an influence. THEN Eckhart Tolle came on the scene and it all made sense.

Ramana said you can tell the degree of spiritual progress by the degree of silence of the mind (not an exact quote)

Every teacher/sage appeared when I was ready for them and the job not finished-- its still work in progress---- laughing hysterically, thinking of the lady on the video .

Incidentally, both Eckhart and David Hawkins, my present inspiration, express the greatest regard for Ramana-- they both also quote "A Course in Miracles"
The work book of AC in M is a great aid to getting rid of belief systems, programing, conditioning and concepts.
It gets one to look at everything afresh.

Regards Chris

[greybeard]

Mayan calender ends 28th Oct

This video In line with my thoughts.
the date not that important--- consciousness is rising because "The Totality" wants it to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JV86gpR-gQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JV86gpR-gQ

[meeradas]

Greybeard,
i found one i thought you would like. :)
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWwe8HzUJu8


Ha! NICE!
Had that.
Interestingly, it didn't change me a bit... bummer [?].

[PS: Ever since i listened to Papaji read from his own biography, i liked him. Whoever can get a hold of that recording: It's most exhilarating. Great stuff]

[starsha]

Greybeard,
i found one i thought you would like. :)
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWwe8HzUJu8


Ha! NICE!
Had that.
Interestingly, it didn't change me a bit... bummer [?].

[PS: Ever since i listened to Papaji read from his own biography, i liked him. Whoever can get a hold of that recording: It's most exhilarating. Great stuff]

Was it the book 'wake up and roar?' I have that one and read it ... i love it too. I mean really ... how can you not love a face like that? :)

[truthseekerdan]

Eckhart Tolle interviewed by ABC MSM.

oORUehs4s7Q

[greybeard]

Something to meditate on courtesy of Dan

I know that I am one with the Universal Mind. I know this mind is perfect and I may rely upon it for complete guidance in all of my daily affairs.
This Universal Mind, the great mind of God knows no evil or limitation or lack. It simply creates in my experience that which I believe and accept.
Therefore I deny all evil and all error. When my eyes and my senses are deluded with the apparent circumstance of evil, I turn away, lifting my thoughts to the perfection and abundance and love of all the universe.
I know that God does not create evil -- and I know that by using the power of God I am able to deny evil, which is only illusion, simply error, and will not stand before truth. For the great reality is good, which is always attempting to manifest itself.
I know that error or evil is the result of my own thought, is the result of error on my part, is the result of isolating myself from the power and unity of the Universal Mind (God).
I know that the Universal Mind is constantly creating in my experience that which I think, and if evil is manifested, it has come from my own thought -- and my own thought may as quickly deny it.
I do not will anything to happen, for I am not bigger than God. I simply understand that the law of creation is bigger than I am and that I cannot help my thoughts and beliefs from becoming real in my experience.
Therefore I hold my thoughts steadfastly on the good. I do not do this with effort, as if I were commanding something to act. I simply relax in contemplation of the good, secure in the knowledge that everything rests with a power much greater than I am.
I trust this power. I have complete faith and confidence in this power. I rely upon this power for guidance in all my daily affairs. I refuse to accept evil, and evil is gone. I accept good, and the supply and love of the universe are mine.

[greybeard]

The Creator wants us to know that we are one with Him.
We are sent challenges each and every day in order that with humility we can seek His help in all things large and small.
Religions teach " Love God and our fellow man"--- all of them.
Love the sinner not the sin.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Through forgiveness, we are forgiven.
Through surrender to Gods will the barriers that the ego has placed between us and knowing the true Self which we already are become surmountable.
Love all serve all is the key to unconditional love.

Enlightenment is the removal of ignorance.
When ignorance of our true Self is removed, the Self shine forth illumined and the world looks entirely different.
Perception is changed by this metamorphism.
The caterpillar has become the butterfly.
The sages say that the whole purpose of life is to be enlightened and thus transcend the wheel of karma and therefore the need to reincarnate over and over again is removed.
Jesus on the cross said "God forgive them for they know not what they do"
In other words they are spiritually ignorant-- they dont know they are one with God.
Time spent removing ignorance is time best spent.
How to remove the ignorance?

Listen to the words of those who are free of ignorance- those who are in the state called enlightenment.
There is a certain energy conveyed by their words, the process is called entrainment, ultimately the Grace of God will happen.
The state of enlightenment has been well documented for thousand of years.
The first know written information on this is in the Vedic literature and has been handed down free to all in many forms via enlightened teachers through out the ages.
They all say the same thing.
We are all waves of the Divine ocean.
Seek and we find that to be true.

Namaste (I greet the God within you)

[greybeard]

"Nothing real can be threatened
Nothing unreal exists
Herein lies the peace of God"

So says "A Course in Miracles"

My understanding is that all form is unreal.

We are formless.
The body dies and is no more, it is temporary therefore is unreal----- only the real is permanent.
Our essence is permanent and formless. That is Truth.

When we leave the body if we are still in the mistaken belief that we are form, then we are attracted back into form.
We reincarnate to have more experiences here on earth till we get the message that truly the Self is not form--- thats Enlightenment or Self realization.
When there is that realization we no longer need form and are in truth formless and then we as Self move on to other realms beyond our understanding as of the non enlightened.
Know thy Self is the advice.
The enlightened sage is formless and omnipresent.
The body is left as a communication device to teach but no person remains.

Namaste

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V1FBFX39uEs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V1FBFX39uEs

[VaughnB]

Here's an except of a HOW TO GUIDE for Integration of the Physical 3D with the Soul.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pflBW2CG4P4/Tqic5rR_8fI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/ZO5-WsizYjc/s320/343190265_3adbee056b.jpg
(http://soulintegrationnow.blogspot.com/)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-9fqLNqj8RU
Through the connection of the twelve basal circuits the ceremony on which to build an expanded sense of self is established. From this platform we enter the second platform of the template model the phase of activation and integration. Within this phase there are two alchemically coded ceremonies, the Thirteenth Circuit Ceremony and the Sacred Breath Ceremony. In both these ceremonies platonic and Archimedean Geometry provides one of the three components within the alchemical code that reconnects the thirteenth circuit and the seven circuits of the pranic mechanism reconnected in the ceremony of the Sacred Breath.

Language of Light - The Sacred Wedding http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t5AX5JFUfgM/Tqic9nf6eLI/AAAAAAAAAjI/YACys_aqzGk/s320/clouds2+-+Copy+-+Copy.jpg
Starring into the sun just before sunset it is possible to differentiate the beams of light that pulsate so miraculously from this grand star as liquid gold of fractal transmissions, an endless code of light intelligence. This light code, a cascade of radiant matrices holds the evolutionary harmonic that merges with the magnetic Gaia rhythms pulsating from the earth's biospheric orb. The embrace of these two impotencies of creation is the sacred marriage of the mother of form and the father of consciousness, the quantum tantra of creation. All of the natural world is born of this union.
Nature is a series of codes and counter resonance building between the two a matrix of archetypal patterning that translates this quantum tantric relationship into the principles of matter, expressing this alchemical union as life-forms that walk, fly and swim, clothed in fur, feather and skin, trees, flowers and shimmering wings ...all sprung from the palate of light. These codes are written in the language of light geometry, sacred geometry. As one of the two wave forms of sacred geometry, light is the final life impulse and transmitted from the galactic directive and translated by our soul. Light holds within it that reach out to our earth with resonant fields with which to create. The transmission of the electric information data is light, remains a stream of non-manifested potencies until it unifies with a magnetic gravitational resonant field. It is the magnetic potency of earth's gravitational field which spiraling up from her biospherical aura, provides this field, the unified field of manifest existence.
The egg-like feminine receptors of the magnetic earth pulse provide the integrity of form taking the electric light directive of the seed impulse through integration and synthesis into crystallization. Through the embrace of these two concentric wave forms of creation is conceived the hologram of manifest existence.
The Thirteenth Circuit Ceremony of Activation and Integration through its design and progression creates a field of resonance for this creation code, drawing you into the courtship of creation and building a conduit of conscious communion between you and your incarnate body presence, your original blueprint and ultimately the source of your creation.
The Sacred Geometry of the Template

[Vit Sirius]

Hi everyone,
I just replied to Bill Ryan with my own video on Youtube, where I talk about "How we should live our lives and what to do to evolve", which basically means enlightenment in the other words. If you are interested have a look at it. Many thanks.

7QI7iyOk5wI

Vit Sirius

[truthseekerdan]

What is “Enlightenment”?

"The Enlightenment experience is a singularly intense experience which tells one his or her place in the scheme of things. This is a more often than not a once and for all experience which will cause the experiencer never again to doubt his or her relationship with or to the self, others, the world, and whatever one may believe is beyond the world. This experience is enormously validating or empowering, and is unlike any other experience one can have."
-- from a talk by Rev. Vajra Karuna

All those people whom we regard as "enlightened" masters, saints, sages and gurus appear to have some real insight into the most essential truths of our existence -- they somehow know who they are, or why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. Moreover, they all teach that each of us has the same access to truth -- because ultimate truth lies within us and is the very essence of our being. Each of us can uncover for ourselves the mystery of who we are or why we are here or what life is really about.

And it is by consciously living our own truth that we find real meaning, purpose and fulfillment.

This inner discovery of ultimate truth goes by various names:


self-realisation
satori
awakening
enlightenment


It is a sudden awakening to what truly is, the actual essence of reality -- regardless of our beliefs, opinions or preferences, regardless of what anyone else says on the matter, regardless of whether or not it makes sense or feels good.

It is a timeless moment in which we simply know the way things actually are because we are at one with Being itself.

Namaste

[greybeard]

I AM THAT
Dialogues of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


That in whom reside all beings and who resides in all beings, who is the giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being -- I am that.
Amritbindu Upanishad


That which permeates all, which nothing transcends and which, like the universal space around us, fills everything completely from within and without, that Supreme non-dual Brahman -- that thou art.
Sankaracharya


The seeker is he who is in search of himself.

Give up all questions except one: ‘Who am I?’ After all, the only fact you are sure of is that you are. The ‘I am’ is certain. The ‘I am this’ is not. Struggle to find out what you are in reality.

To know what you are, you must first investigate and know what you are not.

Discover all that you are not -- body, feelings thoughts, time, space, this or that -- nothing, concrete or abstract, which you perceive can be you. The very act of perceiving shows that you are not what you perceive.

The clearer you understand on the level of mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your search and realise that you are the limitless being.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


http://prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta/books/I-am-that-1.html#chapter70

http://prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta/books/I-am-that-2.html#chapter70

[starsha]

Ramana Maharshi on desires vasanas



Ramana Maharshi on dealing with Desires and Vasanas

Question : What is the best way of dealing with desires and vasanas with a view to getting rid of them - satisfying them or suppressing them?

Ramana Maharshi : If a desire can be got rid of by satisfying it, there will be no harm in satisfying such a desire. But desires generally are not eradicated by satisfaction. Trying to root them out that way is like trying to quench a fire by pouring inflammable spirits on it. At the same time, the proper remedy is not forcible suppression, since such repression is bound to react sooner or later into a forceful surging up of desires with undesirable consequences.

The proper way to get rid of a desire is to find out `Who gets the desire? What is its source?' When this is found, the desire is rooted out and it will never again emerge or grow. Small desires such as the desire to eat, drink, sleep and attend to calls of nature, though these may also be classed among desires, you can safely satisfy.

They will not implant vasanas in your mind, necessitating further birth. Those activities are just necessary to carry on life and are not likely to develop or leave behind vasanas or tendencies. As a general rule, therefore, there is no harm in satisfying a desire where the satisfaction will not lead to further desires by creating vasanas in the mind.

[greybeard]

Adyshanti --- Conscious TV interview



http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid45947084001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAE7B3aU~,DSQ0D72Io lIep00vk9UFiWrrRgGzNWe0&bclid=1093494975001&bctid=1094153026001


http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid45947084001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAE7B3aU~,DSQ0D72Io lIep00vk9UFiWrrRgGzNWe0&bclid=1093494975001&bctid=1094153026001

[starsha]

pWjN8yO527k


gmVAIaJJGCk

[another bob]

pWjN8yO527k


gmVAIaJJGCk


Thanks, Friend!

Scott is a good guy, his website material is quite accessible: http://livingrealization.org/

I particularly liked this bit: http://livingrealization.org/articles/triangle-of-the-self-center/


Blessings!

[starsha]

Thanks, Friend!

Scott is a good guy, his website material is quite accessible: http://livingrealization.org/

I particularly liked this bit: http://livingrealization.org/articles/triangle-of-the-self-center/


Blessings!

Yeah Scott's amazing, i just love him to bits. He's so real and humble and easy to talk to. I am glad you have had the opportunity to met him too. :)

Another Bob, you may also enjoy this clip too :)

SU0KkuLZstE

[greybeard]

I really appreciate you guys contributing here, it was getting lonely. Lol
Many guests visit but I learn from all your sharing.
Conscious TV is excellent.
Best wishes Chris

[starsha]

I really appreciate you guys contributing here, it was getting lonely. Lol
Many guests visit but I learn from all your sharing.
Conscious TV is excellent.
Best wishes Chris

Yeah, it's a great resourse for sure.

Thank you Chris for all you do here.

[Jenci]

Ever notice a baby just Being?

When their physical needs are taken care of they are just happy to Be. Perfectly content to lie there.

No need to be told they are valued.
No need to be told they are loved.
No need to be told they are wanted
No need to be told they are the best.

Just content to Be.

This is our natural state. This is what we are, before we develop our ego (sense of identity with its desires and needs)

Ever notice what adults do when they see a baby lying there in perfect contentment, just Being? They stare in awe and amazement.

But you are already that Being.
Know this.
Just remember.


Hi Chris :)
Jeanette

[greybeard]

"You are not your thought or your feelings"

[greybeard]

Conscious TV
Steve Ford--- An invitation into being.
Many great interviews on this site.

Chris





http://conscious.tv/nonduality.html?bcpid=45947084001&bclid=46629186001&bctid=32763605001

[Jenci]

This letter speaks for itself. It was written by Ram Dass to greiving parents whose daughter had been murdered.

http://ramdasstapes.org/rachels%20letter.htm


And this is Ram Dass talking about Awareness. His speech is slow due to the effects of a stroke.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K6lD6EeGBU





Jeanette

[Jenci]

You don't understand
Something is moving deeper
than usual understanding.

This is the presence of Grace itself.
No one can understand Grace.
You can only say:
"Thank you. Thank you. Thank you that you've
picked me up, and that you burn me!"

Camphor burns; it leaves no residue.
This burning too will leave no residue.

[silence]

The prayer is: Don't leave anything unburnt.


from The Breath of the Absolute - Dialogues with Mooji

[another bob]

You don't understand
Something is moving deeper
than usual understanding.

This is the presence of Grace itself.
No one can understand Grace.
You can only say:
"Thank you. Thank you. Thank you that you've
picked me up, and that you burn me!"

Camphor burns; it leaves no residue.
This burning too will leave no residue.

[silence]

The prayer is: Don't leave anything unburnt.


I have given each being a separate and unique way
of seeing and knowing that knowledge.

What seems wrong to you is right for him.
What is poison to one is honey to someone else.

Purity and impurity, sloth and diligence in worship,
these mean nothing to me.
I am apart from all that.
Ways of worshipping are not to be ranked as better
or worse than one another.
Hindus do Hindu things.
The Dravidian Muslims in India do what they do.
It's all praise, and it's all right.

It's not me that's glorified in acts of worship.
It's the worshipers! I don't hear the words
they say. I look inside at the humility.

That broken-open lowliness is the reality,
not the language! Forget phraseology.
I want burning, 'burning'.
Be friends
with your burning. Burn up your thinking
and your forms of expression!
Moses,
those who pay attention to ways of behaving
and speaking are one sort.
Lovers who burn
are another.


~excerpt from Moses and the Shepherd, Rumi


Blessings!

[Jenci]

That broken-open lowliness is the reality,
not the language! Forget phraseology.
I want burning, 'burning'.
Be friends
with your burning. Burn up your thinking
and your forms of expression!
Moses,
those who pay attention to ways of behaving
and speaking are one sort.
Lovers who burn
are another.[/I]


~excerpt from Moses and the Shepherd, Rumi


Blessings!

Thanks for the Bob. I hadn't seen that before. I heard someone mention once that Rumi talked about the moth moving towards the flame in his work. I'm not familiar with it but I relate to the feeling - in the end you just can't help but move towards the fire .
Jeanette

[another bob]

I heard someone mention once that Rumi talked about the moth moving towards the flame in his work. I'm not familiar with it but I relate to the feeling - in the end you just can't help but move towards the fire .
Jeanette


O my friends,
What can you tell me of Love,
Whose pathways are filled with strangeness?

When you offer the Great One your love,
At the first step your body is crushed.

Next be ready to offer your head as his seat.

Be ready to orbit his lamp like a moth giving in to the light,
To live in the deer as she runs toward the hunter's call,
In the partridge that swallows hot coals for love of the moon,
In the fish that, kept from the sea, happily dies.

Like a bee trapped for life in the closing of the sweet flower,
Mira has offered herself to her Lord.

She says, the single Lotus will swallow you whole.


~Mirabai


Blessings!

[greybeard]

We are in the crucible where all impurities are burnt off.

What is left is the pure soul which is what we have always been but unaware.

The impurities are just the obstructions that prevent us from knowing Self.

That which is real can not be harmed or hurt in anyway.
Only the ego can feel hurt or any negative emotion.

Chris

[Jenci]

"All that which is carrying your attention is being burned in the fire of this looking"

"the body is merely the pyjamas of the Being" ......I love that expression. Wake up :)
Jeanette



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiyuBxHHpXY

[Muzz]

Thanks for the Mooji vid Jenci.
"the body is merely the pyjamas of the Being" fantastic!

[starsha]

Should Love's heart rejoice unless I burn?
For my heart is Love's dwelling.
If You will burn Your house, burn it, Love!
Who will say, 'It's not allowed'?
Burn this house thoroughly!
The lover's house improves with fire.
From now on I will make burning my aim,
From now on I will make burning my aim,
for I am like the candle: burning only makes me brighter.
~Rumi

[greybeard]

WARNING This book may seriously reduce your ego and if you are fortunate you might not exist as a separate person by the time you have finished it.
People can speak of Oneness without knowing what it is, Scott is in that state called enlightenment- not that he claims it.
When it occurs there is in no individual left to claim anything.

"Loves Quiet Revolution" The End of the Spiritual Search"
Scott Kiloby

There is a video of an interview with him some posts back. (Conscious TV)

Some spiritual teachers whilst telling it is as it is are not quite so blunt.
Scott is very direct in the book, I can recommend it.

Chris.

[YoungSoul]

Hello everyone, I hope everyone is well and good.

Im visiting this thread because I wish to know more, i wish to know better.

Im at the moment extremely bound by routines... I wake up, I go to work and then after work I go straight back home and sit in front of my computer all day till I need to go to bed again.

I wish to break this cycle but I'm gonna be honest, I dont know how, I am lazy.

I can sit here, wanting to do things, but they never happen and most likely never will.

It feels like im bound here.

Kindest Regards


Young Soul

[another bob]

Hello everyone, I hope everyone is well and good.

Im visiting this thread because I wish to know more, i wish to know better.

Im at the moment extremely bound by routines... I wake up, I go to work and then after work I go straight back home and sit in front of my computer all day till I need to go to bed again.

I wish to break this cycle but I'm gonna be honest, I dont know how, I am lazy.

I can sit here, wanting to do things, but they never happen and most likely never will.

It feels like im bound here.

Kindest Regards


Young Soul

Greetings, Friend!

Many people are not aware that they have guides available to help them here at school.

If you would really like to change, you can ask for their help. After all, it's what they get paid for!

Take a few moments to set your normal routine aside, and let your mind quiet down.

When it is still, ask yourself this question: "What do I really want?"

A lot of ideas might come up, but don't stop until you've discarded anything less than what you know in your heart you really want.

Once you are clear about what you really want, then simply make your desire known to the ones who've been assigned to your case.

Trust that your request has been heard, and is being processed. Then start arranging your life in a way consistent with the change you expect.

For example, if your deepest desire is to become more spiritually aware, then delete those life-level elements that obstruct your path (such as laziness). Your earnest attention and intention, unified by the recognition of your deepest yearning, will conjoin to support you in this. So will your guides.

To manifest reality is the soul gift with which we are all endowed by our very nature as beings of light and aspects of Source, but most of us don't know how to make use of this birthright.

It's like an athlete who trains to build up their muscles. To succeed takes a persevering unity of attention and intention, along with help from the trainer. The trainer doesn't endow the athlete with ability, but simply shows them how to access their potential. That's the job of the guides, but remember -- it requires your full participation and undivided attention.

Also, be careful about telling yourself stories of predetermined failure. What you think, you become. Stop reinforcing negative self-images, because those are the main culprits holding you back -- your own wry self-assessments.

In fact, you are a magnificent being of immortal power and grace, infused with the same nature as the Divine itself, and yet you are squeezing yourself into a cramped and meager little notion about yourself, defeating youerself before you've even really started.

Why set yourself up for the sad but all too common fate of those who, at the end of their lives, look back with anguish and regret at the chances they didn't take, the opportunities they blew, the love that was wasted in slothful self-loathing?

Regardless of what you believe, you have the innate power to make the changes, just be persistent and return as often as neccesary to that place within you that knows what it really wants, that place in your heart where you shine.

Blessings!

[greybeard]

Life after death Eckhart Tolle



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWXpPGL55No&feature=related

[greybeard]

Thanks, Friend!

Scott is a good guy, his website material is quite accessible: http://livingrealization.org/

I particularly liked this bit: http://livingrealization.org/articles/triangle-of-the-self-center/


Blessings!

Yeah Scott's amazing, i just love him to bits. He's so real and humble and easy to talk to. I am glad you have had the opportunity to met him too. :)

Another Bob, you may also enjoy this clip too :)

SU0KkuLZstE

I bumped this as its one of the most important videos I have seen in a while

[greybeard]

Adyashanti interview on Conscious TV.
Excellent.

Namaste




http://conscious.tv/nonduality.html

[Semnyi]

Hi, Good topic, what is ego.

Five skhandas (heaps, or aggregates) make up the ego; Form, feeling, concept, perception, consciousness.
Non of these exist however, all experience is a product of the mind. No-ego, shows that everything exists as a integral of everything else so does not exist in a vacuum that's the abstract.

I do not exist, that is the literal, absolute meaning. Relatively i am different from the pain in my body, but in the absolute,
all experience is suffering, it is the only reference. To not exist quite literally is to experience freedom.

Take heart, all karma is action, all suffering has an end. The end of suffering is closer to Buddhanature,
our enlightened potential. Ego is closely linked to emptiness, the definition of reality, the existence of a person and perceived relative, and absolute.

[Catsquotl]

Just to bud in and out of here...
I love Osho's quote where he states that in order to transend the ego, you have to build one first. Take some time in doing that so you know what you are trancending....

With Love
Eelco

[greybeard]

Its great to see people contributing here.
Many thanks
Chris

[starsha]

Thanks, Friend!

Scott is a good guy, his website material is quite accessible: http://livingrealization.org/

I particularly liked this bit: http://livingrealization.org/articles/triangle-of-the-self-center/


Blessings!

Yeah Scott's amazing, i just love him to bits. He's so real and humble and easy to talk to. I am glad you have had the opportunity to met him too. :)

Another Bob, you may also enjoy this clip too :)

SU0KkuLZstE

I bumped this as its one of the most important videos I have seen in a while

Thanks Chris :)

Here is another one that i loved ....

YolLejk_tVc

[Jenci]

Can you, the Perceiver, be seen?
If I only had one question, I would ask you this, and I will keep asking you this.
It is so potent a question that you could forget everything else you have ever heard or studied, and it would lead you Home.


from Breath of the Absolute by Mooji



Jeanette

[another bob]

Can you, the Perceiver, be seen?
If I only had one question, I would ask you this, and I will keep asking you this.
It is so potent a question that you could forget everything else you have ever heard or studied, and it would lead you Home.

“Let me remind you that the perceived cannot perceive.”

~Huang Po


Blessings!

[Jenci]

Can you, the Perceiver, be seen?
If I only had one question, I would ask you this, and I will keep asking you this.
It is so potent a question that you could forget everything else you have ever heard or studied, and it would lead you Home.

“Let me remind you that the perceived cannot perceive.”

~Huang Po


Blessings!

I've watched Mooji a few times on video ask this question, Can the perceiver be seen?
I've watched impatiently waiting for him to answer. He never did, lol

So it's still my question.

Jeanette

[greybeard]

Quick, hand me a mirror some one.
The perceived and the perceiver are one.

Chris

[Jenci]

The witness is a reflection of the real in the mind.
The real is beyond.
The witness is a door through which you pass beyond.


Sri Nisargatta Maharaj


Jeanette

[another bob]

The witness is a reflection of the real in the mind.
The real is beyond.
The witness is a door through which you pass beyond.


Sri Nisargatta Maharaj


Jeanette


When no discriminating thoughts arise,
the old mind ceases to exist.

When thought objects vanish,
the thinking-subject vanishes,
as when the mind vanishes,
objects vanish.

Things are objects because of the subject (mind);
the mind (subject) is such because of things (object).

Understand the relativity of these two
and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness.

In this Emptiness the two are indistinguishable
and each contains in itself the whole world.

Hsing Hsing Ming,
Seng-ts'an

Blessings!

[Ernie Nemeth]

Reality abhors a vacuum...

[Jenci]

by Elizabeth Barratt Browning






Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every common bush afire with God:
But only he who sees, takes off his shoes,
The rest sit round it, and pluck blackberries

Jeanette

[starsha]

“Not all spiritual paths lead to the Harmonious Oneness.
Indeed, most are detours and distractions, nothing more.”
- Lao Tzu from the Hua Hu Ching

[another bob]

“Not all spiritual paths lead to the Harmonious Oneness.
Indeed, most are detours and distractions, nothing more.”
- Lao Tzu from the Hua Hu Ching

Ironically, according to certain Buddhist schools (the Tibetans, for example), Lao Tzu's Taoism would itself be included in the "detours and distractions" category.

:rolleyes:

[modwiz]

“Not all spiritual paths lead to the Harmonious Oneness.
Indeed, most are detours and distractions, nothing more.”
- Lao Tzu from the Hua Hu Ching

Ironically, according to certain Buddhist schools (the Tibetans, for example), Lao Tzu's Taoism would itself be included in the "detours and distractions" category.

:rolleyes:

It's ironic how irony works. Iddn't it? :yo:

[another bob]

It's ironic how irony works. Iddn't it? :yo:

Perhaps, but in any case, I've always liked that smilie :yo:

Blessings!

[Jenci]

You can only be lost if you are trying to get to some place - Wayne Liquorman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9JKky65zT8


source : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9JKky65zT8


Jeanette

[alienHunter]

Hi friends
To put it into context.
There are two kinds of ego.
One as defined by the Medical/ Psychiatric profession.
is Healthy self esteem.
It is good to take pride in the way we do things.
When one is comfortable with oneself and what one does then fear decrease and it is easy to be in this world with all its trials and tribulations at that point there is an over lap into the second definition of ego, the spiritual one.

The ego in spiritual terms could be defined as "Edge God Out"
Every spiritual teacher without exception says that to fully know one true self the ego must be transcended.

There were some very good contributions to this thread on Avalon and I hope that the same will apply here.
Celine has said that the complete thread from Avalon will be reposted here but there are technical problems in doing this at the moment, hopefully these will be resolved.
Time being fresh insights are very welcome.
Chris
Namaste.

Here's the flip side...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality

Nothing positive emanates from this type...Does it?

[another bob]

You can only be lost if you are trying to get to some place - Wayne Liquorman


Monk: "What is the one road of [Zen Master] Ummon?"

Ummon: "Personal Experience!"

Monk: "What is the Way?"

Ummon: ""Go!"

Monk: "What is the road, where is the Way?"

Ummon: "Walk on!"


Blessings!

[greybeard]

Hi Alien Hunter
Thanks for your contribution.
You can have a good self esteem without ego being present.
The ego has to exaggerate its own importance--- healthy self esteem is based on a an accurate representation of ones ability.

The ego can be tamed first before transcending happens--- famous Zen oxen pictures.

Chris

[alienHunter]

Hi Alien Hunter
Thanks for your contribution.
You can have a good self esteem without ego being present.
The ego has to exaggerate its own importance--- healthy self esteem is based on a an accurate representation of ones ability.

The ego can be tamed first before transcending happens--- famous Zen oxen pictures.

Chris

Amen, my brother...

[Jenci]

Just do what I say. All your questions are sprouting from your identification with body-form.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElXlV8cI-ds


source : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElXlV8cI-ds


Jeanette

[starsha]

dibSZ1JNTGs

This guy is just so awesome. :)

[another bob]

Interbeing

If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this sheet of paper. Without a cloud, there will be no rain; without rain, the trees cannot grow; and without trees, we cannot make paper. The cloud is essential for the paper to exist. If the cloud is not here, the sheet of paper cannot be here either. So we can say that the cloud and the paper inter-are. “Interbeing” is a word that is not in the dictionary yet, but if we combine the prefix “inter-” with the verb “to be,” we ha vea new verb, inter-be. Without a cloud and the sheet of paper inter-are.

If we look into this sheet of paper even more deeply, we can see the sunshine in it. If the sunshine is not there, the forest cannot grow. In fact, nothing can grow. Even we cannot grow without sunshine. And so, we know that the sunshine is also in this sheet of paper. The paper and the sunshine inter-are. And if we continue to look, we can see the logger who cut the tree and brought it to the mill to be transformed into paper. And wesee the wheat. We now the logger cannot exist without his daily bread, and therefore the wheat that became his bread is also in this sheet of paper. And the logger’s father and mother are in it too. When we look in this way, we see that without all of these things, this sheet of paper cannot exist.

Looking even more deeply, we can see we are in it too. This is not difficult to see, because when we look at a sheet of paper, the sheet of paper is part of our perception. Your mind is in here and mine is also. So we can say that everything is in here with this sheet of paper. You cannot point out one thing that is not here-time, space, the earth, the rain, the minerals in the soil, the sunshine, the cloud, the river, the heat. Everything co-exists with this sheet of paper. That is why I think the word inter-be should be in the dictionary. “To be” is to inter-be. You cannot just be by yourself alone. You have to inter-be with every other thing. This sheet of paper is, because everything else is.

Suppose we try to return one of the elements to its source. Suppose we return the sunshine to the sun. Do you think that this sheet of paper will be possible? No, without sunshine nothing can be. And if we return the logger to his mother, then we have no sheet of paper either. The fact is that this sheet of paper is made up only of “non-paper elements.” And if we return these non-paper elements to their sources, then there can be no paper at all. Without “non-paper elements,” like mind, logger, sunshine and so on, there will be no paper. As thin as this sheet of paper is, it contains everything in the universe in it.

~ Thich Nhat Hanh


Further reading on Dependent Origination:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.002.than.html


Blessings!

[another bob]

Not sure if this article has been posted here, but worth reviewing in any case, as per thread topic:

Chogyam Trungpa,
on the Mechanics of Ego Formation,
from "Cosmic Joke"


In order to cut through the ambition of ego, we must understand how we set up me and my territory, how we use our projections as credentials to prove our existence. The source of the effort to confirm our solidity is an uncertainty as to whether or not we exist. Driven by this uncertainty, we seek to prove our own existence by finding a reference point outside ourselves, something with which to have a relationship, something solid to feel separate from. But the whole enterprise is questionable if we really look back and back and back. Perhaps we have perpetrated a gigantic hoax?
The hoax is the sense of the solidity of I and other. This dualistic fixation comes from nothingness. In the beginning there is open space, zero, self-contained, without relationship. But in order to confirm zeroness, we must create one to prove that zero exists. But even that is not enough; we might get stuck with just one and zero. So we begin to advance, venture out and out. We create two to confirm one's existence, and then we go out again and confirm two by three, three by four and so on. We set up a background, a foundation from which we can go on and on to infinity. This is what is called samsara, the continuous vicious cycle of confirmation of existence. One confirmation needs another confirmation needs another ...
The attempt to confirm our solidity is very painful. Constantly we find ourselves suddenly slipping off the edge of a floor which had appeared to extend endlessly. Then we must attempt to save ourselves from death by immediately building an extension to the floor in order to make it appear endless again. We think we are safe on our seemingly solid floor, but then we slip off again and have to build another extension. We do not realize that the whole process is unnecessary, that we do not need a floor to stand on, that we have been building all these floors on the ground level. There was never any danger of falling or need for support. In fact, our occupation of extending the floor to secure our ground is a big joke, the biggest joke of all, a cosmic joke. But we may not find it funny: it may sound like a serious double cross.
To understand more precisely the process of confirming the solidity of I and other, that is, the development of ego, it is helpful to be familiar with the five skandhas, a set of Buddhist concepts which describe ego as a fivestep process.
The first step or skandha, the birth of ego, is called "form" or basic ignorance. We ignore the open, fluid, intelligent quality of space. When a gap or space occurs in our experience of mind, when there is a sudden glimpse of awareness, openness, absence of self, then a suspicion arises: "Suppose I find that there is no solid me? That possibility scares me. I don't want to go into that." That abstract paranoia, the discomfort that something may be wrong, is the source of karmic chain reactions. It is the fear of ultimate confusion and despair.
The fear of the absence of self, of the egoless state, is a constant threat to us. "Suppose it is true, what then? I am afraid to look." We want to maintain some solidity but the only material available with which to work is space, the absence of ego, so we try to solidify or freeze that experience of space. Ignorance in this case is not stupidity, but it is a kind of stubbornness. Suddenly we are bewildered by the discovery of selflessness and do not want to accept it, we want to hold on to something.
Then the next step is the attempt to find a way of occupying ourselves, diverting our attention from our aloneness. The karmic chain reaction begins. Karma is dependent upon the relativity of this and that -my existence and my projections- and karma is continually reborn as we continually try to busy ourselves. In other words, there is a fear of not being confirmed by our projections. One must constantly try to prove that one does exist by feeling one's projections as a solid thing. Feeling the solidity of something seemingly outside you reassures you that you are a solid entity as well. This is the second skandha, "feeling."
In the third stage, ego develops three strategies or impulses with which to relate to its projections: indifference, passion and aggression. These impulses are guided by perception. Perception, in this case, is the self-conscious feeling that you must officially report back to central headquarters what is happening in any given moment. Then you can manipulate each situation by organizing another strategy.
In the strategy of indifference, we numb any sensitive areas that we want to avoid, that we think might hurt us. We put on a suit of armor. The second strategy is passion -trying to grasp things and eat them up. It is a magnetizing process. Usually we do not grasp if we feel rich enough. But whenever there is a feeling of poverty, hunger, impotence, then we reach out, we extend our tentacles and attempt to hold onto something. Aggression, the third strategy, is also based upon the experience of poverty, the feeling that you cannot survive and therefore must ward off anything that threatens your property or food. Moreover, the more aware you are of the possibilities of being threatened, the more desperate your reaction becomes. You try to run faster and faster in order to find a way of feeding or defending yourself. This speeding about is a form of aggression. Aggression, passion, indifference are part of the third skandha, "perception /impulse."
Ignorance, feeling, impulse and perception -all are instinctive processes. We operate a radar system which senses our territory. Yet we cannot establish ego properly without intellect, without the ability to conceptualize and name. By now we have an enormously rich collection of things going on inside us. Since we have so many things happening, we begin to categorize them, putting them into certain pigeon-holes, naming them. We make it official, so to speak. So "intellect" or "concept" is the next stage of ego, the fourth skandha, but even this is not quite enough. We need a very active and efficient mechanism to keep the instinctive and intellectual processes of ego coordinated. That is the last development of ego, the fifth skandha, "consciousness."
Consciousness consists of emotions and irregular thought patterns, all of which taken together form the different fantasy worlds with which we occupy ourselves. These fantasy worlds are referred to in the scriptures as the "six realms." The emotions are the highlights of ego, the generals of ego's army; subconscious thought, daydreams and other thoughts connect one highlight to another. So thoughts form ego's army and are constantly in motion, constantly busy. Our thoughts are neurotic in the sense that they are irregular, changing direction all the time and overlapping one another. We continually jump from one thought to the next, from spiritual thoughts to sexual fantasies to money matters to domestic thoughts and so on. The whole development of the five skandhas-ignorance/form, feeling, impulse/perception, concept and consciousness -is an attempt on our part to shield ourselves from the truth of our insubstantiality.
The practice of meditation is to see the transparency of this shield. But we cannot immediately start dealing with the basic ignorance itself; that would be like trying to push a wall down all at once. If we want to take this wall down, we must take it down brick by brick; we start with immediately available material, a stepping stone. So the practice of meditation starts with the emotions and thoughts, particularly with the thought process.

[greybeard]

Hi Another Bob
ThanksI
I had not seen the article before.
Great to see you and others joining in the discussion.

Regards Chris

[Jenci]

It's funny business this enlightenment!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuaOye9VyI


Source : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuaOye9VyI

Jeanette

[sandy]

Thank you so MUCH Jeanette,

This is just pure joy, so I clicked onto the laughing Buddha x2 and continued laughing for another 15 minutes>>>>>what a great release and so needed. Thank you again :)

[Jenci]

Thank you so MUCH Jeanette,

This is just pure joy, so I clicked onto the laughing Buddha x2 and continued laughing for another 15 minutes>>>>>what a great release and so needed. Thank you again :)

Glad you enjoyed it, Sandy.

I watched it again yesterday and still laughed all the way through it :)
Jeanette

[transiten]

:jester::clap2::laugh::grouphug:

Gosh thanks Jeanette! Did i need that "Just In Time" in the midst of the catalysts going on here with David and Avalonians! Only had one friend with whom i could laugh until we burst into tears with our stomachs acheing. We were very close writing songs and scenes criticizing social conditions and politics.

We've picked up contact lately but she's not into the spiritual/UFO/alternative thingy at all but at least recently admitting that there might be something like synchronicity after all since they're happening at "LARGE SCALE" as soon as we talk.

And your last post was 144 part of the Fibonacci series..........

[Jenci]

:jester::clap2::laugh::grouphug:

Gosh thanks Jeanette! Did i need that "Just In Time" in the midst of the catalysts going on here with David and Avalonians! Only had one friend with whom i could laugh until we burst into tears with our stomachs acheing. We were very close writing songs and scenes criticizing social conditions and politics.

We've picked up contact lately but she's not into the spiritual/UFO/alternative thingy at all but at least recently admitting that there might be something like synchronicity after all since they're happening at "LARGE SCALE" as soon as we talk.

And your last post was 144 part of the Fibonacci series..........

It's good to laugh like that....even if we don't have a friend to share it with. :)

You lost me there on that last sentence of yours about Fibonacci ??

Jeanette

[transiten]

:jester::clap2::laugh::grouphug:

Gosh thanks Jeanette! Did i need that "Just In Time" in the midst of the catalysts going on here with David and Avalonians! Only had one friend with whom i could laugh until we burst into tears with our stomachs acheing. We were very close writing songs and scenes criticizing social conditions and politics.

We've picked up contact lately but she's not into the spiritual/UFO/alternative thingy at all but at least recently admitting that there might be something like synchronicity after all since they're happening at "LARGE SCALE" as soon as we talk.

And your last post was 144 part of the Fibonacci series..........

It's good to laugh like that....even if we don't have a friend to share it with. :)

You lost me there on that last sentence of yours about Fibonacci ??

Jeanette

Just Google it, to busy packing, leaving for X-mas soon....

[greybeard]

Top British Soap Star gives his view on spirituality and 2012.
A lot of people will listen to him.
Its all good.
Chris

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/tv/2011/12/16/coronation-street-ken-barlow-actor-william-roache-in-bizarre-outburst-115875-23638537/

[greybeard]

Illusion

My understanding of illusion at least in part is.

We have a point of view which naturally will differ from others as it is from our standpoint.
The opinion is formed judgmentally and is based on all our past experiences.

A truly enlightened sage does not have a belief system as everything is seen a fresh without ego and conditioning.
Thats why it can be said with enlightenment there is no person left.
There is no personal point of view but there is a knowing of the essence of things.
Accepting of what is does not mean it is approved of or condoned.

Truth is dependent on context and as most people will put everything they meet into a personal context (does this lead to pain or pleasure?) truth is lost.

Truth is not a point of view it is unchanging.
All that can really be said that everyone can agree upon is that "I" exist.

Everyone can justify their actions-- most believing it is for some good---there own personal or and expanded good.

Judgment of people or actions is a complete waste of time except where a law is broken, that is commonly agreed, at least in some cases, as fair and just.
The illusion is that we all think we are right in everything we believe to be so.
So how come so many learned people will hold different view points and declare this is the truth?
Regards chris

[greybeard]

Conscious TV

23 November 2011

Transformations - Kevin Billett - 'My Journey To Wholeness' - Interview by Iain McNay
Kevin is co-author, with his wife Brandon Bays, of 'Consciousness The New Currency.' In this interview he talks in detail about his life and how he finally found peace and freedom. Kevin says: 'All of life, I am that. Nothing external can ever complete me. I always come back to stillness.'


http://conscious.tv/consciousness.ht...=1292080638001


In a way it (the interview) mirrors my experience---- I had it all and it was not enough.
There was an emptiness even in success.

Chris

[greybeard]

Enlightenment is the end of suffering

That was the essence of the Buddha's teaching.
The simplicity of it is overwhelming.

Yogananda called the search "Divine madness" in his book Divine Romance

"Those whom the God's would love they first make mad" is a quote from some where long forgotten.

Anyone seriously on the path to enlightenment will know that only the attainment of that, freedom from ignorance, will do.
Till then there are dark nights of the soul, moments of bliss and Divine revelation, extreme loneliness, feelings of being abandoned unloved, not understood surface.

No one in their right mind would choose this path, yet it is ultimately the most rewarding and when attained the ultimate potential of human existence is realized.

The search is not external in fact it is not a search but an uncovering of what lies within.
The clouds (obstacles) removed the sun shines forth--- the soul illumined.

Namaste

[Jenci]

"You are not responsible for finding the one who is compatible with you.
Grace brings this one. Perfect timing.
So you don't have to waste any time kissing frogs"





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ3e8Ao76wM

follow up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKELxNm7Uqk




Jeanette

[greybeard]

Jeff Foster interview on Conscious TV
Speaks on Non-Duality
Chris

http://conscious.tv/nonduality.html?bcpid=45947084001&bclid=1610663950&bctid=1610678214

[greybeard]

James Gilliland Dec 23rd 2011
Another and interesting way of looking at God, Our History etc
He may be right who knows????

C




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xsw9JiTzPBw

[greybeard]

Happy New Year to all


Chris

[another bob]

Happy New Year to all


Chris


Oh my Friends!

I have wandered deep and far
in this landscape of myself.

I have waded out into the ocean of forgetfulness,
swallowed up at last in that sea of mystery,
and now I am washed ashore on the waves
of your indulgence, singing my little songs
of remembrance.

Perhaps at night one of these tiny tunes
may insinuate itself into some neglected pocket
of your longing, and you will awaken with
a particular tear upon your cheek.

In that tear is everything
I have come here for,
everything I am.

Everything is seeking. Always.
From the shore, can you stop
the boat out on the sea?

That which seeks is
that for which it is seeking.
Beyond these words, persist.

Unless we can get to the marrow,
we will leave this table dissatisfied.

That tear is a kind gift
from you to yourself.

Who will welcome this ...
sublimity?

Some believe that laying their head
in the lion's mouth is perhaps
some kind of metaphor.

We have no choice here. Really!
We can't go forward.
We can't go back.

Having pushed out from the safe shore
of certainty into the current of vivid life,
whichever way we turn we are confronted
with the lies of what we knew, and the truth
of what we don't.

For far too long we have forsaken the book
of our deepest yearning to gather dust in
the secret library of the heart.

Now that we have opened its cover,
we find that there is something
love wants to do with us.

Who is willing to listen
to Her soft whisper, so familiar,

like the evening chimes in some
abandoned ruin of a temple,

the temple of our longing?

Can you hear Her now?

Her tears,
Her calling?

The ever-present music
soaring behind our thoughts
caresses these tears now glistening
down our cheek, yet all we ever seem
to want is to just go back to sleep.

All around us the unsettled snores
of wry forgetfulness rise and fall in
a cacophonous chaos of dreamy limbo.

You, who now open bright eyes
in the midst of this dream:

stay here with me for awhile, and
let your cares drop off like
the worn rags they are.

In our nakedness, we can play and
point like little children at the beauty of
this incomparable sunlight pouring through
our windows, weaving together the shadows and
the light that playfully become our innocent
imaginary stories –

these simple little tales of lost and found,
forgetting and remembering.

We can whisper all the questions
the water asks the sea, and listen for the
answers sung in seashells, tides, and foam.

Songs love to be sung.

Can you be the song
your soul wants to sing?

I am here to sing it with you,
our yearning is not
different.

We can remember our
original voice.

It is the voice that has
never been bound, never
been limited.

Never despaired at the fragility
of what transpires from
birth to death.

Never faltered, though the most
delicate beauty seems to fall and rot.

The closer things approach nothingness,
the more exquisite they become.

Your exquisiteness makes me weep,
and now my tears roll across our cheek.

There is a gleaming questing in our eyes
that only magnifies our tenderness.

This magnificent tenderness is still so unfamiliar
to those who entertain preferences,
to those who would be strong
and storm heaven's gates.

To those who believe.

We can relinquish such fantasies,
because we have felt Her Lips pressed against
the vulnerable tissues of our heart,
and not resisted.

This is all we need to know –

that knowing at last submits itself
to open-armed embrace of mystery,

resting there, at home,
at peace.

My Friend, here it is --
here it always
Is.


:yo:

[greybeard]

Well another Bob you cant say better than that.
The head has been in the tigers mouth for an eternity it seems.
"Divine Romance" by Yogananda did a lot for me.
Thats the ultimate search--- the search for the Beloved which is your very own Self.

Thanks--- Chris

[another bob]

"Divine Romance" by Yogananda did a lot for me.

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/74113438

:yo:

[jorr lundstrom]

Jenci wrote:
I've watched Mooji a few times on video ask this question, Can the perceiver be seen?
I've watched impatiently waiting for him to answer. He never did, lol

So it's still my question.


Mooji never answered this question. The question is a tool, like a koan.

If the perciever is percieved it turns into the percieved and isnt the

perciecer any longer. And the process starts again, until..........LOL


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/Babajiinredsilk.jpg

[another bob]

Jenci wrote:
I've watched Mooji a few times on video ask this question, Can the perceiver be seen?
I've watched impatiently waiting for him to answer. He never did, lol

So it's still my question.


Mooji never answered this question. The question is a tool, like a koan.


from "I Am That", Chptr 99 The Perceived can not be the Perceiver


Q: I find that the various aspects of myself are at war between themselves and there is no peace in me. Where are freedom and courage, wisdom and compassion? My actions merely increase the chasm in which I exist.

Nisargadatta Maharaj: It is all so, because you take yourself to be somebody, or something. Stop, look, investigate, ask the right questions, come to the right conclusions and have the courage to act on them and see what happens. The first steps may bring the roof down on your head, but soon the commotion will clear and there will be peace and joy. You know so many things about yourself, but the knower you do not know. Find out who you are, the knower of the known. Look within diligently, remember to remember that the perceived cannot be the perceiver. Whatever you see, hear or think of, remember -- you are not what happens, you are he to whom it happens. Delve deeply into the sense 'I am' and you will surely discover that the perceiving centre is universal, as universal as the light that illumines the world. All that happens in the universe happens to you, the silent witness. On the other hand, whatever is done, is done by you, the universal and inexhaustible energy.

Q: It is, no doubt, very gratifying to hear that one is the silent witness as well as the universal energy. But how is one to cross over from a verbal statement to direct knowledge? Hearing is not knowing.

M: Before you can know anything directly, non-verbally, you must know the knower. So far, you took the mind for the knower, but it is just not so. The mind clogs you up with images and ideas, which leave scars in memory. You take remembering to be knowledge. True knowledge is ever fresh, new, unexpected. It wells up from within. When you know what you are, you also are what you know. Between knowing and being there is no gap.

Q: I can only investigate the mind with the mind.

M: By all means use your mind to know your mind. It is perfectly legitimate and also the best preparation for going beyond the mind. Being, knowing and enjoying is your own. First realise your own being. This is easy because the sense 'I am' is always with you. Then meet yourself as the knower, apart from the known. Once you know yourself as pure being, the ecstasy of freedom is your own.

Q: Which Yoga is this?

M: Why worry? What makes you come here is your being displeased with your life as you know it, the life of your body and mind. You may try to improve them, through controlling and bending them to an ideal, or you may cut the knot of self-identification altogether and look at your body and mind as something that happens without committing you in any way.

Q: Shall I call the way of control and discipline raja yoga and the way of detachment -- jnana yoga? And the worship of an ideal -- bhakti yoga?

M: If it pleases you. Words indicate, but do not explain. What I teach is the ancient and simple way of liberation through understanding. Understand your own mind and its hold on you will snap. The mind misunderstands, misunderstanding is its very nature. Right understanding is the only remedy, whatever name you give it. It is the earliest and also the latest, for it deals with the mind as it is.

Nothing you do will change you, for you need no change. You may change your mind or your body, but it is always something external to you that has changed, not yourself. Why bother at all to change? realise once for all that neither your body nor your mind, nor even your consciousness is yourself and stand alone in your true nature beyond consciousness and unconsciousness. No effort can take you there, only the clarity of understanding. Trace your misunderstandings and abandon them, that is all. There is nothing to seek and find, for there is nothing lost. Relax and watch the 'I am'. Reality is just behind it. Keep quiet, keep silent; it will emerge, or, rather, it will take you in.


:yo:

[Jenci]

Jenci wrote:
I've watched Mooji a few times on video ask this question, Can the perceiver be seen?
I've watched impatiently waiting for him to answer. He never did, lol

So it's still my question.


Mooji never answered this question. The question is a tool, like a koan.

If the perciever is percieved it turns into the percieved and isnt the

perciecer any longer. And the process starts again, until..........LOL



LOL, yes it took me a while to realise why he didn't answer the question. Well, let's say my mind took issue with a question with no answer.

These days, these questions silence the mind.
Jeanette

[Jenci]

M: Relax and watch the 'I am'. Reality is just behind it. Keep quiet, keep silent; it will emerge, or, rather, it will take you in.




Simply put by Nisargatta.
Important words.
Thanks, Bob.

Jeanette

[jorr lundstrom]

Jenci wrote:
I've watched Mooji a few times on video ask this question, Can the perceiver be seen?
I've watched impatiently waiting for him to answer. He never did, lol

So it's still my question.


Mooji never answered this question. The question is a tool, like a koan.

If the perciever is percieved it turns into the percieved and isnt the

perciecer any longer. And the process starts again, until..........LOL



LOL, yes it took me a while to realise why he didn't answer the question. Well, let's say my mind took issue with a question with no answer.

These days, these questions silence the mind.
Jeanette


Yes, It removes distrbances like a good chisel removes wots not needed. LOL


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/sakasvattaja/babaji9.jpg

[greybeard]

Ramana said
"Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away"

So the mind is used to remove ego then dispensed with.

Good to see you here Jorr.
I have always appreciated your in depth knowledge of spirituality.

Namaste

for you

Chrishttp://www.haidakhan.net/babaji_first_p.jpg

[Jenci]

The only purpose of experience, is to confirm awareness is prior.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l24Gcp60ok0&feature=player_detailpage

Jeanette

[another bob]

The only purpose of experience, is to confirm awareness is prior.



http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/74164542


:yo:

[FutureHumanDestiny]

68 pages in..

have we settled on functional definitions of enlightenment, the ego and everything?

in other words what are the most agreed on working models of this?

-dale

[jorr lundstrom]

Ramana said
"Use the thorn to remove the thorn then throw both away"

So the mind is used to remove ego then dispensed with.

Good to see you here Jorr.
I have always appreciated your in depth knowledge of spirituality.

Namaste

for you

Chrishttp://www.haidakhan.net/babaji_first_p.jpg



Ok Chris, I must say I really dont know wot spirituality is, exept a word.

And I have no such knowledge as you suggest. Im just trying to respond

to wots said, out of my experience from stalking myself.

And I feel quite uncomfortable writing in this thread as Im not enlightened,

nor wish for enlightenment. If I have to pass such a stage in life, so be it

but Im content with life as it unfolds anyway. Jorr

[another bob]

If I have to pass such a stage in life, so be it

but Im content with life as it unfolds anyway.


http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/105432881

:yo:

[greybeard]

Hi Jorr
Spirituality is life plain and simple.
Enlightenment is appreciating "what is," as life unfolds, without the filter of concepts belief systems and agenda.
Its not complex.
Be kind to all life no matter what including your own is a good place to be.
Enlightenment is not better than, just different.

Regards Chris

[greybeard]

68 pages in..

have we settled on functional definitions of enlightenment, the ego and everything?

in other words what are the most agreed on working models of this?

-dale

The teachers of the past and present are uniform in what they say.
Enlightenment can not be claimed to have happened as there is no individual person left to claim it.
The caterpillar has become the butterfly.
Enlightenment is a different state but every human has that potential.
The state is non locational--- omnipresent- ego-less--- timeless--- eternal.
It is form- formless both and neither--- beyond mind it is pure thought free awareness.
It is freedom from the ignorance that an individual self exists.

It (enlightenment) cannot be made to happen it is solely by the Grace of God

The enlightened can say I am the totality all of it.

In the unenlightened state the best that can be said is we are waves of the Divine ocean--- we cant claim to be the ocean as that is not our experience.

The practical benefits of following a spiritual teaching is that the mind falls progressively silent, the thought that there is an enemy out there falls away.
Life is experienced fresh and as new moment by moment.
There is a knowing that I cannot die that I am not my thoughts.
I am not my past history or future projections.
I am the witness of life unfolding in the eternal moment.
I am at peace.

So thats a brief answer to your question.

How to get to a quiet mind and therefore peaceful state.

I listened to those in that state.
There was a burning desire to know.
Every last penny was spent on books, traveling to India to be in the presence of acknowledged masters etc.
To put in context.
When this search was started there was no Internet--- no books written by ones of my culture.
Now thankfully with u tube you can easily get videos with this information--- many videos posted by many contributors to this thread.
I read daily the words written by current teachers or watch them on u tube.
Everything I think I know comes from listening to those who do know.
What I do know continues to evolve but in simplicity---- Only God is.
There is only the One without a second as pointed to by Krishna, The Buddha, Jesus, and many others.

Thanks for your question Future Human Destiny
Its great you made it through so many pages all saying in essence much the same thing with minor subtle variations

Regards Chris

[another bob]

excerpt from Chapter 96, Abandon Memories and Expectations
from "I Am That", Nisargadatta Maharaj

Q: Unless I am told what to do and how to do it, I feel lost.

Nisargadatta Maharaj: By all means do feel lost! As long as you feel competent and confident, reality is beyond your reach. Unless you accept inner adventure as a way of life, discovery will not come to you.

Q: Discovery of what?

M: Of the centre of your being, which is free of all directions, all means and ends.

Q: Be all, know all, have all?

M: Be nothing, know nothing, have nothing. This is the only life worth living, the only happiness worth having.

Q: I may admit that the goal is beyond my comprehension. Let me know the way at least.

M: You must find your own way. Unless you find it yourself it will not be your own way and will take you nowhere. Earnestly live your truth as you have found it -- act on the little you have understood. It is earnestness that will take you through, not cleverness -- your own or another's.

Q: I am afraid of mistakes. So many things I tried -- nothing came out of them.

M: You gave too little of yourself, you were merely curious, not earnest.

Q: I don't know any better.

M: At least that much you know. Knowing them to be superficial, give no value to your experiences, forget them as soon as they are over. Live a clean, selfless life, that is all.

Q: Is morality so important?

M: Don't cheat, don't hurt -- is it not important? Above all you need inner peace -- which demands harmony between the inner and the outer. Do what you believe in and believe in what you do. All else is a waste of energy and time.


:yo:

[Jenci]

Nisargadatta Maharaj: By all means do feel lost! As long as you feel competent and confident, reality is beyond your reach. Unless you accept inner adventure as a way of life, discovery will not come to you.



I feel lost.

Who's lost?

I can't find who is lost......now I am really lost.

Nothing to find.
Nothing to hold on to.
No where to turn to.
Free fall.

Jeanette

[another bob]

Nothing to find.
Nothing to hold on to.
No where to turn to.
Free fall.

The way of love is not
a subtle argument.
The door there
is devastation.
Birds make great sky-circles
of their freedom.
How do they learn it?
They fall, and falling,
they are given wings.

~ Rumi


:yo:

[greybeard]

Im happy.


Where else would I find people as lost as I find myself?

The conversation is inspirational

Thanks to all.

Chris

[Jenci]

I agree, very inspiring here :)

I struggled with being lost for some time.
Frantically trying to grasp the things which had fallen away and in fear and despair because I no longer knew where I was going or who I was.
It was disorientating.....until I stopped struggling with it and just allowed myself to be lost.




There are always moments when one feel empty and estranged. Such moments are most desireable for it means the soul has cast its moorings and is sailing for distant places. This is detachment when the old is over and the new has not yet come.
If you are afraid, the state may be distressing: but there really is nothing to be afraid of. Remember the instruction: whatever you come across - go beyond

p238 I am That - Nisargatta Maharaj


Jeanette

[greybeard]

I agree, very inspiring here :)

I struggled with being lost for some time.
Frantically trying to grasp the things which had fallen away and in fear and despair because I no longer knew where I was going or who I was.
It was disorientating.....until I stopped struggling with it and just allowed myself to be lost.




There are always moments when one feel empty and estranged. Such moments are most desireable for it means the soul has cast its moorings and is sailing for distant places. This is detachment when the old is over and the new has not yet come.
If you are afraid, the state may be distressing: but there really is nothing to be afraid of. Remember the instruction: whatever you come across - go beyond

p238 I am That - Nisargatta Maharaj


Jeanette

I needed to hear all THAT.
Thanks Jeanette --- we support each other here in an uplifting way.

Much love to all
Chris

[another bob]

I stopped struggling with it and just allowed myself to be lost.

fist opens,

bird . . .

flight


:yo:

[another bob]

Remember the instruction: whatever you come across - go beyond

p238 I am That - Nisargatta Maharaj



http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/128506115


:yo:

[TraineeHuman]

Around six to thirteen years ago I had a spiritual teacher, on and off, who (on her good days) was the most accurate clairvoyant I’ve met. She was forever hounding me about how utterly “lost” I was. It wasn’t a comfortable situation to be in. Few people have as sharp a tongue as she had. As far as she was concerned, it was “the unforgiveable sin,” so to speak, and the ultimate failure. Although I did my utmost to become “unlost”, all my efforts ended (stayed?) in total failure!

All I seemed to be able to do was to kind of die into it, deeply surrender to accepting that was the way I was. I would say true meditation is virtually the same thing as death, once one has come to know and see the true, wonderful nature of death.

Today I don’t feel lost any more. Sorry!

[another bob]

Although I did my utmost to become “unlost”, all my efforts ended (stayed?) in total failure!

That's the point, eh :whistle:



Today I don’t feel lost any more. Sorry!

It's alright, Friend, we all have those days . . . most get over it and find some new reason to feel lost. Once all the ways of feeling lost are seen through and abandoned, then maybe we'll finally admit the obvious over beers and laughter!


:yo:

[TraineeHuman]

Once all the ways of feeling lost are seen through and abandoned, then maybe we'll finally admit the obvious over beers and laughter!

:yo:

Who needs beers?

I see the “being lost” that we are talking about as what happens when you truly get into “letting go”. Eventually, whatever comes with letting go becomes the normal state instead of the illusory world that others are unwittingly living in.

You only seem “lost” relative to their world because their world itself is “lost”, built on illusions. To others, you are in “illusion”. But the truth is the exact reverse.

When you become sufficiently “lost” in this sense, I understand you’ll go through a period where the whole of society appears so ridiculous to you that you feel it would be more sensible to drop out of it. Hence we saw, e.g., U.G. Krishnamurti (not to be confused with J. Krishnamurti) living as a homeless person for several years.

Eventually, though, you will hopefully come out the other side of this – as the ninth and tenth Zen oxherding pictures suggest.

Then maybe you'll have to face further questions. Such as, perhaps: Why am I so deeply terrified of who I truly, deeply am?

[another bob]

Who needs beers?

Those of us who tend to take ourselves seriously. ;)



I see the “being lost” that we are talking about as what happens when you truly get into “letting go”. Eventually.... you will hopefully come out the other side of this – as the ninth and tenth Zen oxherding pictures suggest.
Then maybe you'll have to face further questions. Such as, perhaps: Why am I so deeply terrified of who I truly, deeply am?

If one's level of awareness has reached the stage represented by the later blocks in the Oxherding series, such inquiries as "Why ...?" and "Who...? are ancient history -- toys in the attic -- as is any fear of fabricated phantoms such as "I". The only thing going on at this point (that the 3-D mind can comprehend) is the naturally spontaneous function of selfless service, regardless of what form such blessing work seems to take.

:yo:

Edit to add:

It occurs to me that you might appreciate Attar's "Conference of the Birds", describing various stages along the way in poetic Sufi form:

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/conference-of-the-birds/

[Jenci]

Hi TH,

Lucky for you that you failed to stay "unlost" :)




Today I don’t feel lost any more. Sorry!

I understand this too.....and feel the same too.

It's a paradox. I had to lose myself to find myself. In the end being "lost" just becomes ordinary and then when the deepest questions, about what you are and why you are here, are answered, there's nothing to be lost about, even if there was someone to get lost, lol.

I find it beneficial to share the stages I went through (still am) in this journey. I think it can be valuable for people starting out on this. I know what other people experienced helped me in the early days when I needed some guidance and something to hold onto.

I could say now that there is and was never a journey.
I could say now there is no-one to get lost.
I could say now that it is just all one.

But for someone starting out questioning about the ego and enlightenment who can't relate to these experiences, I find it helps to go back and explain what happened and encourage them to allow the experiences that happen when the ego is being dismantled, rather than resisting them.
Jeanette

[TraineeHuman]

Hi anotherbob,

Thank you for the summary of Conference of the Birds. I’ll read it carefully and fully in the next few days.

Some of it is truly hilarious, and some amusing parts of it seem to have some resemblance to arguments or points of view I’ve occasionally seen in this Forum, and indeed in many other places. No doubt also to at least some things I’ve said in some post or other of my own.

Obviously, you see the truest or ultimate forms or “stages” of spirituality to primarily involve selflessness and nothing else. I don’t exactly agree.

Many of these questions are so subtle, it’s not easy to find the words. But let’s start from where, I imagine, I do basically agree with you. I do agree that at some point in the spiritual journey of many lifetimes etc, one realizes there is effectively no free will.

But that this is because at each moment there exists an optimal way for one to act. Thus, the best thing one can do is simply submit to the optimal course, all the time. To the extent that one truly is able to "tune into" what that way is, of course.

There is a flip side to this. One is always unique. That "optimal way to act" mentioned above is unique to oneself. So, I claim the immeasurable treasure of uniqueness absolutely is not ultimately surrendered into a kind of hive-mind ocean of drops as Rumi suggests.

If the Sufi ideal was to self-annihilatingly merge, does this fit with what so many Sufi and Nazara saints were doing when they got crucified? All of these individuals were crucified for publicly proclaiming that they were God, in their deepest inner essence. Why didn’t the said saints all go “incognito” on issues like that and subvert the populace’s thinking in a good way but gradually?

Following on from that, I don't agree for one nanosecond with so many notions of "perfection" that seem to come up in this Forum so often in the Spirituality section. Basically, I claim that perfection is just a myth.

No matter how high high or wide or whatever one's awareness may be.

And because no-one's ever perfect (not even Source), I still consider it an important issue for us to consider the subconscious fear of our own gigantic power. I consider this is an important issue because if the person in the street could learn to face it thanks to us, the coming Golden Age would already have arrived.

[greybeard]

Hi TH,

Lucky for you that you failed to stay "unlost" :)




Today I don’t feel lost any more. Sorry!

I understand this too.....and feel the same too.

It's a paradox. I had to lose myself to find myself. In the end being "lost" just becomes ordinary and then when the deepest questions, about what you are and why you are here, are answered, there's nothing to be lost about, even if there was someone to get lost, lol.

I find it beneficial to share the stages I went through (still am) in this journey. I think it can be valuable for people starting out on this. I know what other people experienced helped me in the early days when I needed some guidance and something to hold onto.

I could say now that there is and was never a journey.
I could say now there is no-one to get lost.
I could say now that it is just all one.

But for someone starting out questioning about the ego and enlightenment who can't relate to these experiences, I find it helps to go back and explain what happened and encourage them to allow the experiences that happen when the ego is being dismantled, rather than resisting them.
Jeanette

I agree totally Jeanette.
Ramana met people where they were.

When I say.
"I am aware of what Chris does" ( as a separate and yet not separate entity) others say I have lost it Lol
Thats a sign of progress.
There are well defined stages on the path to liberation which you point to Jeanette.

Its as Jesus said
You have to die to be re born.
The self is released and is replaced by the Self (union with God)
That is the state of the Mystic.

Love Chris

[Jenci]

I agree totally Jeanette.
Ramana met people where they were.

When I say.
"I am aware of what Chris does" ( as a separate and yet not separate entity) others say I have lost it Lol
Thats a sign of progress.
There are well defined stages on the path to liberation which you point to Jeanette.

Its as Jesus said
You have to die to be re born.
The self is released and is replaced by the Self (union with God)
That is the state of the Mystic.

Love Chris

LOL, Chris, I talk about Jeanette too and what she does.

Egos are volatile things. Tell an ego that it doesn't exist and that it is all "one" and that's the end of it ......and watch the ego flare up.
Which may not be the best way to filter a message through beyond it.

It's one thing to be told it is all one but how does someone realise that through direct experience?

There's nothing wrong with going back down the path to meet someone and taking their hand and showing them how.

Meeting them where they are at - this is compassion and humility.

And do you know something that I have noticed, when I go back down the path and go back to basics, more is revealed to me as my understanding deepens.
It's clever how this stuff works. :)
Jeanette

[greybeard]

Yes Jeanette
Trouble is I fluctuate between the two "realities" and that confuses people who know me.
It also confuses chris who is a bit like a pet dog following me about.
As yet I am not fully the Self.

I remember it being said in AA.
Either you are or your not--- a bit like being pregnant the degree or time of conception is not relevent.
However with realization it can be a slow process then in a moment instant--- or just instant.
I have had the experience but thats not the same as permanent.
In the words of Tony Parsons "May You die soon!!!!!"
At the moment is still an on going process though Kundalini activity is vigerous.

Love Chris

[another bob]

Obviously, you see the truest or ultimate forms or “stages” of spirituality to primarily involve selflessness and nothing else. I don’t exactly agree.....And because no-one's ever perfect (not even Source), I still consider it an important issue for us to consider the subconscious fear of our own gigantic power. I consider this is an important issue because if the person in the street could learn to face it thanks to us, the coming Golden Age would already have arrived.

Greetings, Friend!

Thank you for your comments!

Respectfully, I will share in utmost sincerity that you have been drawing conclusions and making hypotheses based on insufficient data. You are applying the 3-D logic of the human mind to that which completely transcends the human perspective. We are, all of us, Light Beings of utter perfection, as projected thought forms within Source-Mind.

The Sufis that you mention, who were executed for blasphemy, were those characters in the midst of the game who blessedly realized that there is only God, that there is only one player, one dreamer, but like so many historical blabbermouths, couldn't keep their yaps shut. If you were to behold the same vision that they did, you wouldn't blame them. It's the kind of stunning, life-changing epiphany that makes the heart want to sing out loud!

From the perfect comes the perfect. Remove the perfect from the perfect, and only the perfect remains. It has nothing to do with hives or some human notion of lost individuality or uniquity. All such conditional concepts drop off in the process of expanded awareness that is our natural state and condition, which we resume after our sojourn in this dream realm. Most of us here do not comprehend what individuality even means, in the larger scheme, but remain stuck imagining it has something to do with clinging to a particular sense of self. However, if we try to pin down this so-called self, we can't find it. That's the purpose of the inquiry "Who am I?", for example.

Nevertheless, we do set aside our inherent "enlightenment" in order to fuse with the human host at birth (generally), so that we can experience physical reality, not unlike a virtual reality game. The reason we don't all remember all of it all the time is because it would prevent us from believing the human experience is real, which is necessary in order to get what we want out of the experience.

Fear comes from attachment to the body, first and foremost. The Jnani (awakened while in human form) knows no fear, because of the prior realization of his/her own immortality, and the consequent cessation of identification with the body/mind self. Remember, it is consciousness in which everything is happening, and whatever happens in consciousness is purely imaginary, a hallucination.

Finally, I'd offer that the so-called "Golden Age" is merely another dream creation, a human dream. Humans divide experience into time frames, and make comparisons like Gold, Silver, Iron, and Bronze ages, but once out of the body, there is no time, no age, no beginning or ending, and above all, no gigantic power apart from the unconditional love of Source, of which we are indivisible fragment. Far from being a source of stress (which is what fear is), this Power is truly the only thing of value in the universe.


:yo:


Incarnation is nothing more than a thought. A thousand incarnations are but a thousand thoughts. And this amazing miracle of a mirage we call the world reappears as it was before, but now you know. That’s why you usually have a good laugh, because you realize that all your struggles were made up. You conjured them up out of nothing — with a thought that was linked to another thought, that was then believed, that linked to another thought that was then believed. But never could it have been true, not for a second could it have actually existed. Not ever could you have actually suffered for a reason that was true — only through an imagination, good, bad, indifferent. The intricacies of spiritual philosophy and theologies are just a thought within Emptiness.

Adyashanti

[another bob]

I talk about Jeanette too and what she does.

That's actually appropriate, Sister, since there are indeed two distinct entities involved in this incarnational game -- the Light Being who invests a portion of their divine Source energy into the human animal host (that part which we then call "soul"), and the human itself, which has its own personality. As Light Beings, we're responsible for lifting the human's vision out of the mud and into the stars, so to speak. For further clarification, I'd highly recommend Nanci Danison's reports. She elaborate this recognition of our actual disposition in her books and YouTubes, which I feel provide the most accurate summary of the "big picture" I have yet encountered in the media.

:yo:

[starsha]

Once all the ways of feeling lost are seen through and abandoned, then maybe we'll finally admit the obvious over beers and laughter!

:yo:

Who needs beers?

I see the “being lost” that we are talking about as what happens when you truly get into “letting go”. Eventually, whatever comes with letting go becomes the normal state instead of the illusory world that others are unwittingly living in.

You only seem “lost” relative to their world because their world itself is “lost”, built on illusions. To others, you are in “illusion”. But the truth is the exact reverse.

When you become sufficiently “lost” in this sense, I understand you’ll go through a period where the whole of society appears so ridiculous to you that you feel it would be more sensible to drop out of it. Hence we saw, e.g., U.G. Krishnamurti (not to be confused with J. Krishnamurti) living as a homeless person for several years.

Eventually, though, you will hopefully come out the other side of this – as the ninth and tenth Zen oxherding pictures suggest.

Then maybe you'll have to face further questions. Such as, perhaps: Why am I so deeply terrified of who I truly, deeply am?


"By all means do feel lost. As long as you feel competent and confident, reality is beyond you." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Jenci]

Yes Jeanette
Trouble is I fluctuate between the two "realities" and that confuses people who know me.
It also confuses chris who is a bit like a pet dog following me about.
As yet I am not fully the Self.

I remember it being said in AA.
Either you are or your not--- a bit like being pregnant the degree or time of conception is not relevent.
However with realization it can be a slow process then in a moment instant--- or just instant.
I have had the experience but thats not the same as permanent.
In the words of Tony Parsons "May You die soon!!!!!"
At the moment is still an on going process though Kundalini activity is vigerous.

Love Chris

Hi Chris,

I can lose Jeanette sometimes mid-conversation. She starts talking to someone with really something to say and she just disappears and I am sort of just left there with nothing to say, only Jeanette comes back in, thinking that she looks stupid and what will they think of her, lol.

Yes - may I die soon.
Although I have to say, these days, I am quite enjoying the Jeanette show.

~~~~~~~


I just found a full length Adyashanti satsang and it is talking very simply about the basics.
He says about sales pitch you get for enlightenment that it is like going into the best restaurant and ordering the best meal and having an empty plate served up.

May everyone be blessed with empty plates :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRpD3-RXfoQ&feature=related

source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRpD3-RXfoQ&feature=related

Jeanette

[Jenci]

I talk about Jeanette too and what she does.

That's actually appropriate, Sister, since there are indeed two distinct entities involved in this incarnational game -- the Light Being who invests a portion of their divine Source energy into the human animal host (that part which we then call "soul"), and the human itself, which has its own personality. As Light Beings, we're responsible for lifting the human's vision out of the mud and into the stars, so to speak. For further clarification, I'd highly recommend Nanci Danison's reports. She elaborate this recognition of our actual disposition in her books and YouTubes, which I feel provide the most accurate summary of the "big picture" I have yet encountered in the media.

:yo:

Thanks Bob, I shall check her out.

I often think that the soul gets confused in that the soul gets talked about as being a separate, individual entity just like the human host is - for example, "my soul", as in belonging to the "me".
Jeanette

[another bob]

Thanks Bob, I shall check her out.

Well worth it! There have been a few threads here about her (Nanci Danison). A good intro is her YouTube interview(s).

Here's part 1 of a series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFDI-jgFVqs

Her books go into a lot more detail.

Interestingly, just today I came across a young fellow from Argentina whose vision very closely echoes Nanci's, as well as that of other sources I've deemed reliable in terms of what one can say about the big picture.

His YouTubes are not in English, and so I found a site here with the transcript of his video presentation:

http://www.in5d.com/transcription-total-recall-matias-destefano.html

I'm going to start a separate thread in the General Discussion Forum, since he does speak about 2012 and the immediate changes before us.

:yo:

[TraineeHuman]

Respectfully, I will share in utmost sincerity that you have been drawing conclusions and making hypotheses based on insufficient data. You are applying the 3-D logic of the human mind to that which completely transcends the human perspective. We are, all of us, Light Beings of utter perfection, as projected thought forms within Source-Mind.

The Sufis that you mention, who were executed for blasphemy, were those characters in the midst of the game who blessedly realized that there is only God, that there is only one player, one dreamer, but like so many historical blabbermouths, couldn't keep their yaps shut. If you were to behold the same vision that they did, you wouldn't blame them. It's the kind of stunning, life-changing epiphany that makes the heart want to sing out loud!

From the perfect comes the perfect. Remove the perfect from the perfect, and only the perfect remains. ... Nevertheless, we do set aside our inherent "enlightenment" in order to fuse with the human host at birth (generally), so that we can experience physical reality, not unlike a virtual reality game. The reason we don't all remember all of it all the time is because it would prevent us from believing the human experience is real, which is necessary in order to get what we want out of the experience.


Hi, anotherbob,

I certainly haven't been drawing conclusions or using hypotheses. What I have been doing, though, is using the rather inadequate 3-D language to attempt to express certain things I have realised. By the way, I also understand and warmly appreciate the truth you were seeking to point to in many of the things you were saying.

I would be very surprised if it were true that I haven't realised essentially what most of the abovementioned Sufis realised. However, one way to summarise my concern over what I would see as the misuse of the idea of "perfection" is as follows. In my own realisation, it is profoundly true that nirvana is identical with samsara, or that brahman is identical with atman. And the misuse can be summed up as whatever comes from looking only at the "nirvana" side and ignoring the "samsara" side. Reality is reality, and its samsara side is just as real, and just as much a part, as its nirvana side.

[another bob]

I certainly haven't been drawing conclusions or using hypotheses.

Greetings, Friend!

Apologies if this phrase came across as accusatory, but "drawing conclusions and using hypotheses" is basically what the discursive 3-D mind is always doing. It's part of its program. No praise, no blame, just recognition of the function's limitations.



What I have been doing, though, is using the rather inadequate 3-D language to attempt to express certain things I have realised.

Yes, words obscure as much as they reveal -- we may be pointing to the same thing, from different angles of vision. That's often the case in these types of inquiries.


By the way, I also understand and warmly appreciate the truth you were seeking to point to in many of the things you were saying.

Likewise! Namaste.



I would be very surprised if it were true that I haven't realised essentially what most of the abovementioned Sufis realised.

Well, life can be full of surprises -- wonderful ones! We'd be fools to imagine we've seen it all. That would be a grand self-deception indeed!



However, one way to summarise my concern over what I would see as the misuse of the idea of "perfection" is as follows. In my own realisation, it is profoundly true that nirvana is identical with samsara, or that brahman is identical with atman. And the misuse can be summed up as whatever comes from looking only at the "nirvana" side and ignoring the "samsara" side. Reality is reality, and its samsara side is just as real, and just as much a part, as its nirvana side.


You might check out Nagarjuna's Tetralemma:

Nirvana and Samsara are real.
Nirvana and Samsara are not real.
Nirvana and Samsara are both real and unreal.
Nirvana and Samsara are neither real nor unreal.

One might also come to recognize that both nirvana and samsara are simply human fantasies of interpretation on perception. They are props in this virtual production, and our "test" is to see if we will cling to one and avoid the other. Passing the test renders both concepts obsolete, or rather, yields the awareness in which they are recognized and let go for the mental fabrications they are, even in the midst of their perfect integration.

:yo:

[greybeard]

If it can be accepted that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened---- many modern teachers respect him--- then this quote is a conversation stopper


There is neither creation nor destruction,
Neither destiny nor free will,
Neither path nor achievement,
This is the final truth"


Ramana Maharshi.

[truthseekerdan]

If it can be accepted that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened---- many modern teachers respect him--- then this quote is a conversation stopper


There is neither creation nor destruction,
Neither destiny nor free will,
Neither path nor achievement,
This is the final truth"


Ramana Maharshi.

Does that mean that this game that 'we play here' is actually an illusion? Hmmm... ;)

Namaste ~ Dan

[jorr lundstrom]

Wot conversation? LOL

Jorr

[greybeard]

Hi Dan
Happy New Year

The honest truth is I dont know.

Ramana is not the only one to say similar.

Eckhart Tolle respected him to the degree that he visited his Ashram in India.
Eckhart also implied the same in the quote "There was never anyone there to do anything to you"
Mooji displays his picture.
His Guru was a disciple of Ramana
So there is the tradition linage.
Ramesh Balsekar said "Ramana is the Guru's Guru"

It all seems very real.

Who knows???? I dont.

I share things I find interesting that does not make it true or otherwise.

With Love Chris

Ps its been called Indras dream
The cosmic dance
Consciousness at play

The Indian word Maya mean illusion.

Its either an illusion or it it isent--- I dont know.
I do believe death is an illusion though.

[another bob]

If it can be accepted that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened---- many modern teachers respect him--- then this quote is a conversation stopper


There is neither creation nor destruction,
Neither destiny nor free will,
Neither path nor achievement,
This is the final truth"


Ramana Maharshi.


Greetings, Friends!

Ramana was quoting Gaudapada here. Guadapada was one of the founders of Advaita Vedanta (though some suspected him to be a closet Buddhist). What he was pointing to is the supreme truth that nothing happens. Indeed, the great yogini Ma Anandamayi once noted: "Nothing happens! Anyone who realizes this is blessed, for true vision has been granted them." This truth cannot be grasped by the human mind. It wasn't until my own nde that I realized that truly, nothing happens. There is no history, there is no becoming, there is no person, place, or thing. To imagine we are on some road to somewhere is a big bunch of nonsense -- we come from nowhere and we go nowhere. There is no such thing as liberation because nothing was ever bound. There is no sleeping and awakening, no overcoming obstacles because there are no obstacles. Really, there is nothing we can say at this point -- what is there to say?

:yo:

[greybeard]

What is there to say Bob?

No-thing.

Thanks
Chris

[greybeard]

Ramana met people where they stood--- then led them gently---- nowhere.

The answer to the famous self inquire question "Who am I?"
Led to not this not this---- the answer can not be directly found--- yet it is.

C

[Jenci]

Here's something to say about something, lol.

Why is it when you wake from the illusion, it feels like you are in a dream?
This sense of not being here, dreamlike is getting stronger...like nothing seems real

I was contemplating this today.
Jeanette

[greybeard]

John Lennon


Nothing is real, nothing to go on about (Strawberry fields)

[another bob]

Here's something to say about something, lol.

Why is it when you wake from the illusion, it feels like you are in a dream?
This sense of not being here, dreamlike is getting stronger...like nothing seems real

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/76393081

:yo:

[Jenci]

Here's something to say about something, lol.

Why is it when you wake from the illusion, it feels like you are in a dream?
This sense of not being here, dreamlike is getting stronger...like nothing seems real

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/76393081

:yo:

ah Bob, thank you so much.

That brought tears to my eyes.......and then made me laugh so much.

So I have not woken up, it's all a dream ! lol

For some reason just right now, I've just seen this with deeper clarity.
Namaste
Jeanette


p.s. it's so funny - thinking how could I have ever believed this is real. It just seems so obvious.

[Jenci]

From Breath of the Absolute by Mooji p161

Nisargatta says it beautifully. He says:


The 'I Am'-ness is like a door
that swings one way into all of manifestation
and the other way into Infinity.

This 'I Am'-ness is the same as Consciousness. But even the Consciousness comes and goes and is not stable. When the door in Maharaj's statement, which represents the 'I Am'-ness, is present, It perceives manifestation. You know this as the waking state, Consciousness is present and you're having the privilege of experiencing the potential of Consciousness to experience diversity. In deep sleep, Consciousness is gone. Consciousness is also called 'I Am', so 'I Am' is gone.

The body is gone. But you are in total joy! When you are in the non-experiential state you are in complete joy! This is the state Maharaj refers to with the door reaching Infinity. If you give it any consideration at all, you mistakenly believe that this non-experiential state is exclusive to the deep sleep state and disappears once the Conscousness and the waking state re-emerge together with experiences.

Sri Nisargadatta does not say that the door must go. The import of his remark is that this Infinity is known by way of the 'I Am' itself. Because you give the dance of experiences on the screen of Consciousnes your full attention, paying no attention whatsoever to the 'I Am' that is witnessing this play, you do not see this, and in turn end up feeling miserable.

We are in love with the waking state, no doubt, but we also love the deep sleep state. In deep sleep you are totally in love but not in a dualistic sense, you are in the Unicity of Love. All beings love to be in that state where there is not even 'I'. And you love it, too!

As I was saying before, when the waking state comes over this pure state, you believe that this pure state has vanished, but I'm telling you, it is still here. These words you're hearing me speak are emanating out of this pure state. Sometimes this state is referred to a being asleep while fully awake.

[FutureHumanDestiny]

so how many people lay claim to enlightenment?

[greybeard]

so how many people lay claim to enlightenment?

None as there is no person left to claim it.

Tony Parsons in this U tube video gives a good simple account of it.
There is more than one part and it has been posted on the thread some time back.
Lots of good vids on Conscious TV

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FBFX39uEs

[Jenci]

Lots of good vids on Conscious TV

Chris

I agree, it's a good resource.
Jeanette

[Jenci]

so how many people lay claim to enlightenment?


Hi, I don't think I've ever heard any of them say that they are enlightened. As Chris says, because there is no person left to claim it.

But I would say there are some people whose total perception of life is as it actually is - rather than through the perception of the separate self.

Some of these people are doing the rounds as teachers but I would guess there are equally others who we never hear about just living ordinary lives without saying anything about it.
Jeanette

[another bob]

So I have not woken up, it's all a dream ! lol

For some reason just right now, I've just seen this with deeper clarity.

Wonderful!

I may have shared this one already, but it's worth renewed reflection:

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/126154267



p.s. it's so funny - thinking how could I have ever believed this is real. It just seems so obvious.


And so with the fate of our current view, as awareness continues to break through the imaginary barriers we've laboriously assembled to keep ourselves dimmed down and hypnotized. With each succeeding breakthrough, the previous stage seems awkward and immature, until somewhere along the line, the "hard facts" are undeniable:

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/132842465

:yo:

[truthseekerdan]

Hi Dan
Happy New Year

The honest truth is I dont know....

With Love Chris



Its either an illusion or it it isent--- I dont know.
I do believe death is an illusion though.

A happy one to you too Chris... :)

Everything is an illusion, except conciousness, a.k.a. Infinite Love.

Much Love ~ Dan


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoIBnDRoNsU

[greybeard]

Hi Dan

You need not aspire for or get any new state. Get rid of your present thoughts, that is all.
Ramana Maharshi

This sums it up nicely

Your are then left with Unconditional love

Love Chris

[Jenci]

Wonderful!

I may have shared this one already, but it's worth renewed reflection:

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/126154267





You may have done but it certainly means more to me today. "The knowledge that it is is a dream is nothing but a dream"

Thanks :cool:

Jeanette

[Jenci]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoIBnDRoNsU


"We have forgotton that we are the dream and the dreamer and the dream has taken over" David Icke

It's all an illusion. :)


Jeanette

[Jenci]

Well worth it! There have been a few threads here about her (Nanci Danison). A good intro is her YouTube interview(s).

Here's part 1 of a series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFDI-jgFVqs


Thanks Bob, I have watched the 6 part video about her NDE.

Some of what she experienced, I experience now.

But that is not scary, although the mind says it should be, lol.

Jeanette

[solosthere]

The second form can only exist in ones own mind. It is not possible to "edge God out" as you put it. It would be like trying to survive after you cut out your heart. God, for lack of a better word, is not out there but is a part of and exists in each of us at all times. Its like saying we live on the earth. We don't live on the earth we live as part of the earth.

[truthseekerdan]

Hi Dan

You need not aspire for or get any new state. Get rid of your present thoughts, that is all.
Ramana Maharshi

This sums it up nicely

Your are then left with Unconditional love

Love Chris

Just love and be loving. That is one's true essence...

[Jenci]

The second form can only exist in ones own mind. It is not possible to "edge God out" as you put it. It would be like trying to survive after you cut out your heart. God, for lack of a better word, is not out there but is a part of and exists in each of us at all times. Its like saying we live on the earth. We don't live on the earth we live as part of the earth.

Hi Solosthere and welcome to Avalon.

Ultimately everything is the One and to those who experience this, what you saying here is true.

But for the majority of people, they also believe everything is the one - but this is consciousness identified with the limited sense of self - the ego.

To say to these people 'it is all one', does not help them towards enlightenment. So we can introduce the idea of separation and explain about the egoic sense of self.
When they can see that, we can point them to what is aware of the ego, which is the consciousness.

Eventually even these concepts I am talking about will need to be dropped and there will be a merging of the ego back into the One.
It is one thing to intellectually understand what is meant by the One.......it's another thing to only perceive as this One through direct experience - which is enlightenment.
From my own experience and those I read of other people, this is a process we go through over time.
Jeanette

[another bob]

Wonderful!

I may have shared this one already, but it's worth renewed reflection:

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/126154267





You may have done but it certainly means more to me today. "The knowledge that it is is a dream is nothing but a dream"

Thanks :cool:

Jeanette

Yes, the problem we can observe with many aspirants and would-be teachers today is the tendency to hold onto an "awakened" self-image, which is a kind of sickness. In Zen, it's called "Zen Sickness". It's just perpetrating a more sophisticated form of fraud. As Sri Nisargadatta notes:

"Any knowledge of any kind that you think you have can only be in consciousness. How can the consciousness which came later give you any knowledge about that state which exists prior to consciousness’ arrival? Any thought that you have reached, or are going to reach that state
which exists prior, is false."

Why? Because whatever happens in consciousness is purely imaginary, a hallucination, including any notion that we might cherish of our own awakening. Recognizing this, some may tend towards another extreme, which is the motive to "be nothing". As Rumi writes: "If you are eager to be nothing before you know who you are, you rob yourself of your true being."
So, we can perhaps discern from this that there may be a Middle Way between the everything and the nothing, and that is precisely what this very life we have been given now is all about. To truly discover who and what we are, we need to die to all previous knowledge and self-images, but not turn about then and create some new version of the dilemma, but just to let go of any scheme or landing place, and live surrendered in the unknown, in peace, as That.

:yo:

[meeradas]

"I want that".

[another bob]

"I want that".

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/74166533

:yo:

[Jenci]

"I want that".


You are that :)


Jeanette

[meeradas]

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/74166533



You are that :)

I knew both your answers before my last posting. :biggrin:

Why is the non-demanding part toughest, as i seem to have come with it - this must be [part of] the secret.

[another bob]

I knew both your answers before my last posting.

Knowledge alone is not really satisfying though, is it. It's why we need to go beyond mere verbal conviction.



Why is the non-demanding part toughest, as i seem to have come with it - this must be [part of] the secret.


I was with a mother and her new infant all day yesterday, so the principle of the demand-mechanism is fresh in my mind.

Making demands is the emotional response of a child to its parent. It thus represents a fixation in the psyche at an early stage of adaptation to being human, in which the parental deity is perceived to be responsible for one's personal welfare. This stage is also representative of the way many humans still approach religion/spirituality, not to mention the politcal implications of leaders and herds.

The second stage of human maturation, after the infantile level of adaptation, is that of the adolescent, in which a counter-demand is raised -- the demand for independence from the parental deity, in order to confirm one's own personal sense of existence.

At the third stage, the adult level of emotional maturation as a human, responsibilty for one's own welfare is recognized to be an internal, rather than external, matter. The demand mechanism thus becomes obsolete when we take repsonsibilty for our own life.

Beyond that level, things become more interesting, although at any given time in this realm, it's a rare individual who has even reached the adult stage of emotional maturation, much less plunged on into the higher levels of our innate potential.

:yo:

[meeradas]

Knowledge alone is not really satisfying though, is it.

Of course, ain't.


I was with a mother and her new infant all day yesterday, so the principle of the demand-mechanism is fresh in my mind.

Making demands is the emotional response of a child to its parent. It thus represents a fixation in the psyche at an early stage of adaptation to being human, in which the parental deity is perceived to be responsible for one's personal welfare. This stage is also representative of the way many humans still approach religion/spirituality, not to mention the politcal implications of leaders and herds.

The second stage of human maturation, after the infantile level of adaptation, is that of the adolescent, in which a counter-demand is raised -- the demand for independence from the parental deity, in order to confirm one's own personal sense of existence.

At the third stage, the adult level of emotional maturation as a human, responsibilty for one's own welfare is recognized to be an internal, rather than external, matter. The demand mechanism thus becomes obsolete when we take repsonsibilty for our own life.

Beyond that level, things become more interesting, although at any given time in this realm, it's a rare individual who has even reached the adult stage of emotional maturation, much less plunged on into the higher levels of our innate potential.

:yo:

Thank you for elaborating. Food for thought - funny, I've been just thinking about the different stages.
I've crossed all of' em already, but totally lack any sense of 'my own welfare'.
Also, i won't ever 'grow up', as it looks like... still immature and irresponsible in some ways.

So, i hope you're not saying that awakening to oneself, to who you are,
has got the mastering of these stages as a prerequisite, has got to be 'earned' -
that can't be: 'Cause earning the right to be who one is even sounds wrong.

If the Doer finally decides on dropping the demand mechanism,
i'll be back and happiest to join (you) in the laughter that arises from within whenever that happens.

Cheers!

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

I was with a mother and her new infant all day yesterday, so the principle of the demand-mechanism is fresh in my mind.

Making demands is the emotional response of a child to its parent. It thus represents a fixation in the psyche at an early stage of adaptation to being human, in which the parental deity is perceived to be responsible for one's personal welfare. This stage is also representative of the way many humans still approach religion/spirituality, not to mention the politcal implications of leaders and herds.

The second stage of human maturation, after the infantile level of adaptation, is that of the adolescent, in which a counter-demand is raised -- the demand for independence from the parental deity, in order to confirm one's own personal sense of existence.

At the third stage, the adult level of emotional maturation as a human, responsibilty for one's own welfare is recognized to be an internal, rather than external, matter. The demand mechanism thus becomes obsolete when we take repsonsibilty for our own life.

Beyond that level, things become more interesting, although at any given time in this realm, it's a rare individual who has even reached the adult stage of emotional maturation, much less plunged on into the higher levels of our innate potential.

:yo:



What a great post an-other bob! :)
The thanks button was not enough.

Your images on your website are beautiful!



As Rumi writes: "If you are eager to be nothing before you know who you are, you rob yourself of your true being."

Loved this too, from your other post.

[jorr lundstrom]

"I want that".

meeradas, just wanna say, I love this. :hug:

[another bob]

So, i hope you're not saying that awakening to oneself, to who you are,
has got the mastering of these stages as a prerequisite, has got to be 'earned' -
that can't be: 'Cause earning the right to be who one is even sounds wrong.

Greetings, Friend!

If we want to graduate from this rock, we have to grow up and learn how to behave. Otherwise, we'll just remain stuck in the sandbox, repeating the kindergarten curriculum ad infinitum, and never have a chance to find out what a truly amazing universe this really is beyond the playpen, as well as what our natural birthright and potential as awakened light beings truly entails.

It's not so much a matter of earning the right to be what we already are, but more like, we do not have the focus of attention to directly realize what we already are until we can see through and transcend the habitual infantile and adolescent reactivities to life that obscure our true nature.

Don't be lulled into a false sense of what is involved in this process -- peace is hard work, and maturation is not automatic. A liberated soul has calloused hands.

:yo:

[Tarka the Duck]

So, i hope you're not saying that awakening to oneself, to who you are,
has got the mastering of these stages as a prerequisite, has got to be 'earned' -
that can't be: 'Cause earning the right to be who one is even sounds wrong.

Greetings, Friend!

If we want to graduate from this rock, we have to grow up and learn how to behave. Otherwise, we'll just remain stuck in the sandbox, repeating the kindergarten curriculum ad infinitum, and never have a chance to find out what a truly amazing universe this really is beyond the playpen, as well as what our natural birthright and potential as awakened light beings truly entails.

It's not so much a matter of earning the right to be what we already are, but more like, we do not have the focus of attention to directly realize what we already are until we can see through and transcend the habitual infantile and adolescent reactivities to life that obscure our true nature.

Don't be lulled into a false sense of what is involved in this process -- peace is hard work, and maturation is not automatic. A liberated soul has calloused hands.

:yo:

And not just calloused hands...!

The story about Milarepa, one of the great Tibetan saints, who overcame extraordinary problems in his life and achieved the heights of enlightenment. At the end of his life, he had a wonderful student who came to study intensively with him named Gampopa, a renowned meditator in his own right. When it came time for Gampopa to leave Milarepa and go off on his own again, Milarepa said, “My son, I want to give you your final teaching. Come with me.” They walked down the valley, into the woods, and he said, “Now I’m ready to give you my final teaching.” Milarepa turned around, pulled up his robe, and pointed to his butt. It was all callused from sitting in meditation. The final teaching was that you’ve got to do the work. Nothing changes without the work.

[truthseekerdan]

So, i hope you're not saying that awakening to oneself, to who you are,
has got the mastering of these stages as a prerequisite, has got to be 'earned' -
that can't be: 'Cause earning the right to be who one is even sounds wrong.

Greetings, Friend!

If we want to graduate from this rock, we have to grow up and learn how to behave. Otherwise, we'll just remain stuck in the sandbox, repeating the kindergarten curriculum ad infinitum, and never have a chance to find out what a truly amazing universe this really is beyond the playpen, as well as what our natural birthright and potential as awakened light beings truly entails.

It's not so much a matter of earning the right to be what we already are, but more like, we do not have the focus of attention to directly realize what we already are until we can see through and transcend the habitual infantile and adolescent reactivities to life that obscure our true nature.

Don't be lulled into a false sense of what is involved in this process -- peace is hard work, and maturation is not automatic. A liberated soul has calloused hands.

:yo:

And not just calloused hands...!

The story about Milarepa, one of the great Tibetan saints, who overcame extraordinary problems in his life and achieved the heights of enlightenment. At the end of his life, he had a wonderful student who came to study intensively with him named Gampopa, a renowned meditator in his own right. When it came time for Gampopa to leave Milarepa and go off on his own again, Milarepa said, “My son, I want to give you your final teaching. Come with me.” They walked down the valley, into the woods, and he said, “Now I’m ready to give you my final teaching.” Milarepa turned around, pulled up his robe, and pointed to his butt. It was all callused from sitting in meditation. The final teaching was that you’ve got to do the work. Nothing changes without the work.




However, to do the 'work' means to be of service to others and to love thy neighbor as yourself -- everything else is just detail(s)... :nod:

Much Love

[onawah]

The Fallacy of Being Special
The following is from Steve Beckow, who I don't always agree with.
For example, I don't agree with this statement, which I think is an oversimplification at best:
"Let’s face it. Our dualistic beliefs had everything wrong. The very impulse of wanting to separate from God was a mistake."
But I still think he makes some good points, very applicable to some tendencies I've seen on Avalon, my own included.
http://cdn.the2012scenario.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/snob2.jpg

http://the2012scenario.com/2012/01/t...-being-special



The Fallacy of Being Special

Quote As we begin the return to God this year – not a total return to God, which is endless lifetimes away, but a return to oneness from duality – many pitfalls seem to appear along the way.

One is yielding to the pinnacle of duality: the feeling of being special. If I am separate as I feel I am, then often what sets me apart from others and makes my journey into separation successful lies in proving that I am special.

Richer, smarter, royal, talented – it matters not. I sometimes struggle and struggle in my dualistic mindset to establish myself as standing out from the rest. And I sometimes feel myself in heaven when someone comes along and acknowledges just how special I am.

You remember the scene in Gandhi where Gandhi excuses himself from the gaggle of admiring and aspiring young statemen to … give a goat a mudbath? One of the qualities that made Gandhi what he was was that he had no sense of, no need for being special.

Specialness is the best the dualistic world has to offer us. Being separate, we sometimes feel we must establish ourselves as unequal and superior. There seems no other way to experience happiness in a dualistic world, to the best of my knowledge.

One of its insidious faces is to learn a modicum of knowledge, have one’s views accepted, and then consider one has the ability to enter any field, comment on it, and have one’s views prevail. Doing so is a habit I can fall into without noticing. I’m then shocked to find that I don’t know what I’m talking about. How could I have gotten myself into such a place?

I feel constantly called upon to reject the siren song of specialness. That isn’t where we’re headed. Oneness doesn’t involve, it seems to me, standing out from the crowd. It appears to involve letting go of the need to stand out, of feeling quite happy being one among many ones.

What need is there to stand out, rise above others, and be special? Who first argued that that was desirable? How many who are crowned special are happy? Can we not see that the National Enquirers of the world revel as much in reporting divorces as marriages, failures as successes? Can we not see that they know that “success” is a dualistic racket and sell it to us endlessly?

I believe that people who are returning to oneness can often find themselves saying to themselves, “Ah, now I’m becoming special.” They may react with jealousy when they find others also unfolding and returning to oneness. Jealousy is the trap of specialness. We criticize the leading channels, find fault with other lightworkers, and gossip about the shortcomings of others. I know. I see myself doing it.

I think this is why so many voices are warning us at this time about drama, jealousy and conflict. We’re awakening a little and wanting now to be God’s anointed. We’re all indeed God’s anointed. But if everyone is special, is anyone special? If I haven’t learned how to let things go at this time, I’d best make the practice my best friend, I think, and employ it moment by moment.

Awakening is not payback time. Awakening is not here to see us rise above the rest. Awakening fits us to serve, which perhaps is why Jesus, before his leaving and Ascension, washed the feet of the disciples, to remind them.

Let’s face it. Our dualistic beliefs had everything wrong. The very impulse of wanting to separate from God was a mistake. And now as we return, I think we need to leave behind all our mistaken estimations, not try to maximize the potential of awakening for our self-glorification.

And that is only one of the pitfalls of this time of awakening and return. I’m not aware that anyone said that awakening would be easy. We need to be gentle with ourselves and watch as much for the last thrashings of the ego as we watch for the last thrashings of the cabal as their edifice falls. The cabal represented the ego at its worst.

I need to let go into awakening, not batten on it for continued exaltation of the ego. Let go, let go, let go, the sage said, until at last we reach ultimate emptiness. That emptiness, I’m told is not empty, but filled with bliss.

[Jenci]

The Fallacy of Being Special
The following is from Steve Beckow, who I don't always agree with.
For example, I don't agree with this statement, which I think is an oversimplification at best:
"Let’s face it. Our dualistic beliefs had everything wrong. The very impulse of wanting to separate from God was a mistake."
But I still think he makes some good points, very applicable to some tendencies I've seen on Avalon, my own included.
http://cdn.the2012scenario.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/snob2.jpg


Hi Onawah,
Once there has been an awakening and the ego has been seen through, for its very survival, it re-invents itself into the spiritually awakened ego. And it can do this very quickly.

From experience I would say not a very pleasant phase to go through. "I'm really extra special now":rolleyes:

But it really is down to the work that we have to do, referenced earlier by Bob and Tarka, to spot how the ego is tricking us again.
Eventually even this aspect of ego will be dissolved or dismantled.

Jeanette

[Jenci]

"You get to the point where there are no others" ~ Ram Dass


Jeanette

[jorr lundstrom]

Truthseekerdan wrote:


However, to do the 'work' means to be of service to others and to love thy neighbor as yourself -- everything else is just detail(s)...


These are possible consequenses of the "work". they are useless as manuals

for the work. Far too many have gone astray trying to applicate them in their

life without knowing themselves and without knowing wot loving oneself means.

[Anchor]

I (!ego alert!) like the idea that when you start to awaken, everything will get easier and life will be fluffy bunnies and plain sailing.

Most people that go through any awakening find out in pretty short order that, while there is actually an element of truth to this - some things in life do get easier, it only paves the way for life to present some even more devious, twisted and clever little challenges at you - just to make sure you know that you are not extra special and that you got the perspective under control and that you are still doing the right sort of things.

Then when you've got all comfy with that even more comes along - but now - its different because the challenge presents itself in the form of people who are behind you on the path (!ego alert!) and then you get asked to share some of the hard won lessons you have learned and then you have to put up with people saying how its great that you know all that stuff and can you teach me some more (!ego alert!) and you (!ego alert!) are special (!ego alert!) in some way.

Yes we are all freaking special!

Actually finding that out is a funny trip. When, in our seeking, that moment comes we actually start to even glimpse the truth of that and legitimately realize that we are special with all the potential !ego alert! that this implies, its another interesting thing to realize that this "specialness" is nothing but totally ordinary in its specialness.

Then the heart turns to those who may not have glimpsed such and ponders any potential assistance with all the possible !ego alert!'ing that goes along with that.

[ (!ego alert!) (c) Anchor/John.. 2012 - this could actually be a never ending recursive !ego alert! ]

John..

[greybeard]

Very happy to be learning from all the recent contribution.
Please keep them coming.
Thanks
Chris

[onawah]

This part strikes me as being especially profoundly true:

I sometimes struggle and struggle in my dualistic mindset to establish myself as standing out from the rest. And I sometimes feel myself in heaven when someone comes along and acknowledges just how special I am.

You remember the scene in Gandhi where Gandhi excuses himself from the gaggle of admiring and aspiring young statemen to … give a goat a mudbath? One of the qualities that made Gandhi what he was was that he had no sense of, no need for being special.

Specialness is the best the dualistic world has to offer us. Being separate, we sometimes feel we must establish ourselves as unequal and superior. There seems no other way to experience happiness in a dualistic world, to the best of my knowledge.

When we strip away the feel-good fuzzies that specialness gives us, what is left?
That is the ground that I find needs the most exploration.
The Course in Miracles deals with the issue of specialness at great length.
The answer seems to be to recognize the Light in every other special being and recognize our Oneness.
Then we give out of "unity consciousness" rather than the need for recognition.
Not to imply that this is necessarily simple or easy!
There are challenges at every turn...

[Jenci]

Jon Bernie ~ Ordinary Freedom p32




Readiness

If you are looking for it, it can't be seen. If you are listening for it, it can't be heard. If you are sensing for it, it can't be felt. So how is it possible to truly perceive reality? It's only possible if you are ready.......

So when you find you are finally finished with trying to get to somewhere else, then suddenly you find yourself right here.
You may not like it, exactly; it may be painful, it may be very difficult.
But when you're ready, you are through telling yourself how it should be.
That strategy doesn't work anymore; that story no longer holds your interest.
Rather you are simply available to this, whatever it offers - the feelings, the energies, the sensations; the revelations, the openings, the vulnerability.

Jeanette

[jorr lundstrom]

Jon Bernie ~ Ordinary Freedom p32




Readiness

If you are looking for it, it can't be seen. If you are listening for it, it can't be heard. If you are sensing for it, it can't be felt. So how is it possible to truly perceive reality? It's only possible if you are ready.......

So when you find you are finally finished with trying to get to somewhere else, then suddenly you find yourself right here.
You may not like it, exactly; it may be painful, it may be very difficult.
But when you're ready, you are through telling yourself how it should be.
That strategy doesn't work anymore; that story no longer holds your interest.
Rather you are simply available to this, whatever it offers - the feelings, the energies, the sensations; the revelations, the openings, the vulnerability.

Jeanette


Ok, I cant find the off button on this washing machine. Damn........LMAO

[Jenci]

Quote from Mooji

When you begin to thank Life for having your buttons pressed, then you are at the next level.

And when you realise that there are no buttons, even the buttons are imagined, then all is sweet sailing.

[another bob]

Quote from Mooji

And when you realise that there are no buttons, even the buttons are imagined, then all is sweet sailing.

"And when life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door."

~The Grateful Dead

:yo:

[nf857]

My understanding is the ego is how we know ourselves in our true form, a bit like if faced with a mirror where we saw ourselves as a true reflection in all that we are, we would not be able to handle it, hence the term trascendence. To truly understand ourselves in our entirity as physical material beings, we need to trascend our awareness. If we didnt have an ego, we would not have personality,character, individuality, our own beleifs/opnions etc etc. So to encompass ourselves to a higher understanding (trascendance) we have to stay true to our own individual awareness and do all that we can to gain knowledge for ourselves in branching out this awareness higher and higher. Which therefore means not listening to somebody else's belief, knowledge, understanding, only your own, what you know yourself to be true, & this is the only way you can ever be honest with yourself and understand yourself fully. There is no point trying to understand oneself in comparison to another. You are an individual being, unique, one of a kind, there will no other like you, similar but they will never be you, so only you can do the work for yourself to trascend your awareness x

[nf857]

Ps Which is why i dont beleive in channeling or mediums or anything like that, as therefore i would be de-transcending (if there is even a word, ha ha i just made that up myself) to another power or being. As this its a completle contradiction in terms.

E.G. My name is quaster from the planet schenoozor i come to you at this time to aide you in your trascendance/enlightment/awareness i advice that to truely transcend you must follow your own path, we can't get involved, dur you already have, by getting into contact with me which therefore might not have been my path before you showed up, so now if i listen to your advice my belief might change to what originally was supposed to be my own path in time/space x

[greybeard]

Im having a break from regular posting.
There is much on this thread from many posters, please start page one and discover the many videos all as relevant today a the day they were put on Avalon.
Many of the videos and comments are excellent pointers to your true SELF.
Best wishes
Chris

[another bob]

Worth a gander:

M: The main thing is to be free of negative emotions — desire, fear etc., the ‘six enemies’ of the mind. Once the mind is free of them, the rest will come easily. Just as cloth kept in soap water will become clean, so will the mind get purified in the stream of pure feeling.

When you sit quiet and watch yourself, all kinds of things may come to the surface. Do nothing about them, don’t react to them; as they have come so will they go, by themselves. All that matters is mindfulness, total awareness of oneself or rather, of one’s mind.

Q: By ‘oneself’ do you mean the daily self?

M: Yes, the person, which alone is objectively observable. The observer is beyond observation. What is observable is not the real self.

Q: I can always observe the observer, in endless recession.

M: You can observe the observation, but not the observer. You know you are the ultimate observer by direct insight, not by a logical process based on observation. You are what you are, but you know what you are not. The self is known as being, the not-self is known as transient. But in reality all is in the mind. The observed, observation and observer are mental constructs. The self alone is.

Q: Why does the mind create all these divisions?

M: To divide and particularise is in the mind’s very nature. There is no harm in dividing. But separation goes against fact. Things and people are different, but they are not separate. Nature is one, reality is one. There are opposites, but no opposition.

Q: I find that by nature I am very active. Here I am advised to avoid activity. The more I try to remain inactive, the greater the urge to do something. This makes me not only active outwardly, but also struggling inwardly to be what by nature I am not. Is there a remedy against longing for work?

M: There is a difference between work and mere activity. All nature works. Work is nature, nature is work. On the other hand, activity is based on desire and fear, on longing to possess and enjoy, on fear of pain and annihilation. Work is by the whole for the whole, activity is by oneself for oneself.

Q: Is there a remedy against activity?

M: Watch it, and it shall cease. Use every opportunity to remind yourself that you are in bondage, that whatever happens to you is due to the fact of your bodily existence. Desire, fear, trouble, joy, they cannot appear unless you are there to appear to. Yet, whatever happens, points to your existence as a perceiving centre. Disregard the pointers and be aware of what they are pointing to. It is quite simple, but it needs be done. What matters is the persistence with which you keep on returning to yourself.

Q: I do get into peculiar states of deep absorption into myself, but unpredictably and momentarily. I do not feel myself to be in control of such states.

M: The body is a material thing and needs time to change. The mind is but a set of mental habits, of ways of thinking and feeling, and to change they must be brought to the surface and examined. This also takes time. Just resolve and persevere, the rest will take care of itself.

Q: I seem to have a clear idea of what needs be done, but I find myself getting tired and depressed and seeking human company and thus wasting time that should be given to solitude and meditation.

M: Do what you feel like doing. Don’t bully yourself. Violence will make you hard and rigid. Do not fight with what you take to be obstacles on your way. Just be interested in them, watch them, observe, enquire. Let anything happen — good or bad. But don’t let yourself be submerged by what happens.

Q: What is the purpose in reminding oneself all the time that one is the watcher?

M: The mind must learn that beyond the moving mind there is the background of awareness, which does not change. The mind must come to know the true self and respect it and cease covering it up, like the moon which obscures the sun during solar eclipse. Just realise that nothing observable or experienceable is you, or binds you. Take no notice of what is not yourself.

Q: To do what you tell me I must be ceaselessly aware.

M: To be aware is to be awake. Unaware means asleep. You are aware anyhow; you need not try to be. What you need is to be aware of being aware. Be aware deliberately and consciously, broaden and deepen the field of awareness. You are always conscious of the mind, but you are not aware of yourself as being conscious.

Q: As I can make out, you give distinct meanings to the words ‘mind’, ‘consciousness’, and ‘awareness’.

M: Look at it this way. The mind produces thoughts ceaselessly, even when you do not look at them. When you know what is going on in your mind, you call it consciousness. This is your waking state — your consciousness shifts from sensation to sensation, from perception to perception, from idea to idea, in endless succession. Then comes awareness, the direct insight into the whole of consciousness, the totality of the mind. The mind is like a river, flowing ceaselessly in the bed of the body; you identify yourself for a moment with some particular ripple and call it: ‘my thought’. All you are conscious of is your mind; awareness is the cognisance of consciousness as a whole.

Q: Everybody is conscious, but not everybody is aware.

M: Don’t say: ‘everybody is conscious’. Say: ‘there is consciousness’, in which everything appears and disappears. Our minds are just waves on the ocean of consciousness. As waves they come and go. As ocean they are infinite and eternal. Know yourself as the ocean of being, the womb of all existence. These are all metaphors of course; the reality is beyond description. You can know it only by being it.

Q: Is the search for it worth the trouble?

M: Without it all is trouble. If you want to live sanely, creatively and happily and have infinite riches to share, search for what you are.

While the mind is centred in the body and consciousness is centred in the mind, awareness is free. The body has its urges and mind its pains and pleasures. Awareness is unattached and unshaken. It is lucid, silent, peaceful, alert and unafraid, without desire and fear. Meditate on it as your true being and try to be it in your daily life, and you shall realise it in its fullness.

Mind is interested in what happens, while awareness is interested in the mind itself. The child is after the toy, but the mother watches the child, not the toy.

By looking tirelessly, I became quite empty and with that emptiness all came back to me except the mind. I find I have lost the mind irretrievably.

Q: As you talk to us just now, are you unconscious?

M: I am neither conscious nor unconscious; I am beyond the mind and its various states and conditions. Distinctions are created by the mind and apply to the mind only. I am pure Consciousness itself, unbroken awareness of all that is. I am in a more real state than yours. I am undistracted by the distinctions and separations which constitute a person. As long as the body lasts, it has its needs like any other, but my mental process has come to an end.

Q: You behave like a person who thinks.

M: Why not? But my thinking, like my digestion, is unconscious and purposeful.

Q: If your thinking is unconscious, how do you know that it is right?

M: There is no desire, nor fear to thwart it. What can make it wrong? Once I know myself and what I stand for, I do not need to check on myself all the time. When you know that your watch shows correct time, you do not hesitate each time you consult it.

Q: At this very moment who talks, if not the mind?

M: That which hears the question, answers it.

Q: But who is it?

M: Not who, but what. I’m not a person in your sense of the word, though I may appear a person to you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also beyond all existence and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel separate from, hence I am all. No thing is me, so I am nothing.

The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the language and the style may appear personal. A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear — how can there be a pattern?

Q: Surely, you will die.

M: Life will escape, the body will die, but it will not affect me in the least. Beyond space and time I am, uncaused, uncausing, yet the very matrix of existence.

Q: May I be permitted to ask how did you arrive at your present condition?

M: My teacher told me to hold on to the sense ‘I am’ tenaciously and not to swerve from it even for a moment. I did my best to follow his advice and in a comparatively short time I realised within myself the truth of his teaching. All I did was to remember his teaching, his face, his words constantly. This brought an end to the mind; in the stillness of the mind I saw myself as I am — unbound.

Q: Was your realisation sudden or gradual.

M: Neither. One is what one is timelessly. It is the mind that realises as and when it gets cleared of desires and fears.

Q: Even the desire for realisation?

M: The desire to put an end to all desires is a most peculiar desire, just like the fear of being afraid is a most peculiar fear. One stops you from grabbing and the other from running. You may use the same words, but the states are not the same. The man who seeks realisation is not addicted to desires; he is a seeker who goes against desire, not with it. A general longing for liberation is only the beginning; to find the proper means and use them is the next step. The seeker has only one goal in view: to find his own true being. Of all desires it is the most ambitious, for nothing and nobody can satisfy it; the seeker and the sought are one and the search alone matters.

Q: The search will come to an end. The seeker will remain.

M: No, the seeker will dissolve, the search will remain. The search is the ultimate and timeless reality.

Q: Search means lacking, wanting, incompleteness and imperfection.

M: No, it means refusal and rejection of the incomplete and the imperfect. The search for reality is itself the movement of reality. In a way all search is for the real bliss, or the bliss of the real. But here we mean by search the search for oneself as the root of being conscious, as the light beyond the mind. This search will never end, while the restless craving for all else must end, for real progress to take place.

One has to understand that the search for reality, or God, or Guru and the search for the self are the same; when one is found, all are found. When ‘I am’ and ‘God is’ become in your mind indistinguishable, then something will happen and you will know without a trace of doubt that God is because you are, you are because God is. The two are one.

Q: Since all is preordained, is our self-realisation also preordained? Or are we free there at least?

M: Destiny refers only to name and shape. Since you are neither body nor mind, destiny has no control over you. You are completely free. The cup is conditioned by its shape, material, use and so on. But the space within the cup is free. It happens to be in the cup only when viewed in connection with the cup. Otherwise it is just space. As long as there is a body, you appear to be embodied. Without the body you are not disembodied — you Just are.

Even destiny is but an idea. Words can be put together in so many ways! Statements can differ, but do they make any change in the actual? There are so many theories devised for explaining things — all are plausible, none is true. When you drive a car, you are subjected to the laws of mechanics and chemistry: step out of the car and you are under the laws of physiology and biochemistry.

Q: What is meditation and what are its uses?

M: As long as you are a beginner certain formalised meditations or prayers may be good for you. But for a seeker for reality there is only one meditation — the rigorous refusal to harbour thoughts. To be free from thoughts is itself meditation.

Q: How is it done?

M: You begin by letting thoughts flow and watching them. The very observation slows down the mind till it stops altogether. Once the mind is quiet, keep it quiet. Don’t get bored with peace, be in it, go deeper into it.

Q: I heard of holding on to one thought in order to keep other thoughts away. But how to keep all thoughts away? The very idea is also a thought.

M: Experiment anew, don’t go by past experience. Watch your thoughts and watch yourself watching the thoughts. The state of freedom from all thoughts will happen suddenly and by the bliss of it you shall recognise it.

Q: Are you not at all concerned about the state of the world? Look at the horrors in East Pakistan [1971, now Bangladesh]. Do they not touch you at all?

M: I am reading newspapers; I know what is going on! But my reaction is not like yours. You are looking for a cure, while I am concerned with prevention. As long as there are causes, there must also be results. As long as people are bent on dividing and separating, as long as they are selfish and aggressive, such things will happen. If you want peace and harmony in the world, you must have peace and harmony in your hearts and minds. Such change cannot be imposed; it must come from within. Those who abhor war must get war out of their system. Without peaceful people how can you have peace in the world? As long as people are as they are, the world must be as it is. I am doing my part in trying to help people to know themselves as the only cause of their own misery. In that sense I am a useful man. But what I am in myself, what is my normal state cannot be expressed in terms of social consciousness and usefulness.

I may talk about it, use metaphors or parables, but I am acutely aware that it is just not so. Not that it cannot be experienced. It is experiencing itself! But it cannot be described in the terms of a mind that must separate and oppose in order to know.

The world is like a sheet of paper on which something is typed. The reading and the meaning will vary with the reader, but the paper is the common factor, always present, rarely perceived. When the ribbon is removed, typing leaves no trace on the paper. So is my mind — the impressions keep on coming, but no trace is left.

Q: Why do you sit here talking to people? What is your real motive?

M: No motive. You say I must have a motive. I am not sitting here, nor talking: no need to search for motives. Don’t confuse me with the body. I have no work to do, no duties to perform. That part of me which you may call God will look after the world. This world of yours, that so much needs looking after, lives and moves in your mind. Delve into it, you will find your answers there and there only. Where else do you expect them to come from? Outside your consciousness does anything exist?

Q: It may exist without my ever knowing it.

M: What kind of existence would it be? Can being be divorced from knowing? All being, like all knowing, relates to you. A thing is because you know it to be either in your experience or in your being. Your body and your mind exist as long as you believe so. Cease to think that they are yours and they will just dissolve. By all means let your body and mind function, but do not let them limit you. If you notice imperfections, just keep on noticing: your very giving attention to them will set your heart and mind and body right.

Q: Can I cure myself of a serious illness by merely taking cognisance of it?

M: Take cognisance of the whole of it, not only of the outer symptoms. All illness begins in the mind. Take care of the mind first, by tracing and eliminating all wrong ideas and emotions. Then live and work disregarding illness and think no more of it. With the removal of causes the effect is bound to depart.

Man becomes what he believes himself to be. Abandon all ideas about yourself and you will find yourself to be the pure witness, beyond all that can happen to the body or the mind.

Q: If I become anything I think myself to be, and I start thinking that I am the Supreme Reality, will not my Supreme Reality remain a mere idea?

M: First reach that state and then ask the question.

-Nisargadatta Maharaj

From I Am That, Chapter 48

[Jenci]

M: First reach that state and then ask the question.

-

That was great, Bob, thanks for posting.

I love this last line - it says it all !
Jeanette

[another bob]

M: First reach that state and then ask the question.

-

That was great, Bob, thanks for posting.

I love this last line - it says it all !
Jeanette


Thanks for bumping this one up, Sister!

The words of a Jnani are not like ordinary words.

They destroy other words, revealing the natural state prior to mind.


:yo:

[Kelly]

Hmmm, lots of people say we need to let go of our ego in order to become more spiritually enlightened, but we also need the ego as a tool.
The ego has gotten us this far, if we were to just throw it away now, would that not be counter productive in order to our survival?
The ego has many attributes, it can get out of control, if we let it, but it can teach us to stand up for ourselves too, and we need that in this world.
Its about a balance between the two i think.
xxxx

[starsha]

"We can walk around thinking we are totally liberated and speak about total awakening and all that, but there is one proof of the pudding: Are you still in conflict? Do you experience emotional and psychological conflict?

If you do, that doesn't mean you have to throw out everything you think you realize, but it means, there might be more to see. Liberation is the disappearance of conflict.

Or as I like to say: No more argument with yourself. No more argument with God. No more argument with the world and no more argument with death. Now we are talking about something significant." ~Adyashanti

[meeradas]

Q: Is the search for it worth the trouble?

M: Without it all is trouble.

He's totally right.

Extra thanks for [the whole of] this gem, 'other bob.

[Jenci]

Hmmm, lots of people say we need to let go of our ego in order to become more spiritually enlightened, but we also need the ego as a tool.
The ego has gotten us this far, if we were to just throw it away now, would that not be counter productive in order to our survival?
xxxx

Hi Kelly and welcome to Avalon.

The ego needs to survive. It's whole purpose is to constantly reinforce its position to maintain its existence. The comment "we need the ego" is a comment from the ego, maintaining its survival.

You're right, our egos have got us far. They serve a purpose to bring us to where we are. If we are here now on the path towards enlightenment, then we will not get further until we expose the ego for what it is - an illusion.

We don't need an ego for survival. When the ego disappears, something else can emerge. We each have an individual inherent personality with flows naturally from the Source. It's obscured by an ego which doesn't flow naturally and always takes up the positions of either grasping or resisting.

Once the ego has gone, our Divine expression can flourish.

Egos are very cunning in their survival and if we sincere on this path, we have to question everything that the ego tells us.
Jeanette

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Or as I like to say: No more argument with yourself. No more argument with God. No more argument with the world and no more argument with death. Now we are talking about something significant." ~Adyashanti


Wise words from Adyashanti.

I still have a little bit of arguing going on with life.
Work in progress :)
Jeanette

[Jenci]

What is observable is not the real self.


Another great line from Nisargatta.

So this means that everything I observe about me is not really me -I observe my body, my mind, my thoughts, my feelings and they are not the real self.


So if I am none of these things, what am I then?
Jeanette

[truthseekerdan]

What is observable is not the real self.


Another great line from Nisargatta.

So this means that everything I observe about me is not really me -I observe my body, my mind, my thoughts, my feelings and they are not the real self.


So if I am none of these things, what am I then?
Jeanette

A conscious imagination or a dream..? :wub:

[another bob]

What is observable is not the real self.


Another great line from Nisargatta.

So this means that everything I observe about me is not really me -I observe my body, my mind, my thoughts, my feelings and they are not the real self.


So if I am none of these things, what am I then?
Jeanette


In the immensity of consciousness a light appears, a tiny point that moves rapidly and traces shapes, thoughts and feelings, concepts and ideas, like the pen writing on paper. And the ink that leaves a trace is memory. You are that tiny point and by your movement the world is ever re-created. Stop moving and there will be no world. Look within and you will find that the point of light is the reflection of the immensity of light in the body, as the sense 'I am'.

~Sri Nisargadatta

:yo:

[starsha]

Or as I like to say: No more argument with yourself. No more argument with God. No more argument with the world and no more argument with death. Now we are talking about something significant." ~Adyashanti


Wise words from Adyashanti.

I still have a little bit of arguing going on with life.
Work in progress :)
Jeanette

Ironically ... being 100% accepting of being 'work in progress' is freedom, because you are truly content with the unfolding of it in every moment. :)

[Jenci]

Or as I like to say: No more argument with yourself. No more argument with God. No more argument with the world and no more argument with death. Now we are talking about something significant." ~Adyashanti


Wise words from Adyashanti.

I still have a little bit of arguing going on with life.
Work in progress :)
Jeanette

Ironically ... being 100% accepting of being 'work in progress' is freedom, because you are truly content with the unfolding of it in every moment. :)


Yes, this is true, Starsha, I am very content with the unfolding of every moment.

And yet, running parallel to this, is my mind which still has a tendancy to argue with life and say 'why does this always have to happen' .....like it did today.

And yet, even that is perfect :)

Jeanette

[starsha]

Yes, this is true, Starsha, I am very content with the unfolding of every moment.

And yet, running parallel to this, is my mind which still has a tendancy to argue with life and say 'why does this always have to happen' .....like it did today.

And yet, even that is perfect :)

Jeanette

Yeah ... you have that 'vibe' Jenci :) it's always a nice thing to see. :)

Someone asked me one day "what drives you to practice this stuff?" (meditation self inquiry realization etc) and i answered ...

"that is like asking someone 'what drives you to want to hang out with the love of your life?' when you're in love, you're in love"

[Jenci]

Yeah ... you have that 'vibe' Jenci :) it's always a nice thing to see. :)

Someone asked me one day "what drives you to practice this stuff?" (meditation self inquiry realization etc) and i answered ...

"that is like asking someone 'what drives you to want to hang out with the love of your life?' when you're in love, you're in love"

Thanks, Starsha.

That's beautiful about being in love with this.
I say it is like a river rushing back to its Source. Nothing can stop this.
Jeanette

[starsha]

Yeah ... you have that 'vibe' Jenci :) it's always a nice thing to see. :)

Someone asked me one day "what drives you to practice this stuff?" (meditation self inquiry realization etc) and i answered ...

"that is like asking someone 'what drives you to want to hang out with the love of your life?' when you're in love, you're in love"

Thanks, Starsha.

That's beautiful about being in love with this.
I say it is like a river rushing back to its Source. Nothing can stop this.
Jeanette

I love that, yes ... feels that way for me too. :)

i once heard a great analogy that it is like watching hair grow. You can't see it happening, but you can't stop it either. :)

[Jenci]

once heard a great analogy that it is like watching hair grow. You can't see it happening, but you can't stop it either. :)



LOL, that's a good one too.

Adyashanti says "Be careful when you say 'Thy will be done' because once it starts happening...."

I prayed a lot for 'Thy will to be done and not mine' and he's right because once Thy will started happening, there was no going back. My will doesn't get much of a look in these days - but even my ego has given up complaining now ;)
Jeanette

[starsha]

once heard a great analogy that it is like watching hair grow. You can't see it happening, but you can't stop it either. :)



LOL, that's a good one too.

Adyashanti says "Be careful when you say 'Thy will be done' because once it starts happening...."

I prayed a lot for 'Thy will to be done and not mine' and he's right because once Thy will started happening, there was no going back. My will doesn't get much of a look in these days - but even my ego has given up complaining now ;)
Jeanette

yeah, you can't put the baby back in the womb, try as we might. LOL :)

[another bob]

Adyashanti says "Be careful when you say 'Thy will be done' because once it starts happening...."

It acts like a blessed friction, wearing down our egoic resistence, if treated like an all-consuming koan. That means full attention, 24/7, to the inquiry into our deepest motivation, the core story of "me and mine". Once the fiction of that story is penetrated, we can experience directly how we are being lived -- we are literally being breathed right now. It is a wonder beyond wonder!

:yo:

[meeradas]

we can experience directly how we are being lived -- we are literally being breathed right now.

Whoa - that's my quote of the day!

Every day.

:yo:

PS: I didn't realize until now that online satsang is possible.

[truthseekerdan]

Interesting read for everyone...

http://consciousnessbootcamp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CBC-Manifesto1.pdf

Source: http://consciousnessbootcamp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CBC-Manifesto1.pdf

[xeno]

Hmmm, lots of people say we need to let go of our ego in order to become more spiritually enlightened, but we also need the ego as a tool.
The ego has gotten us this far, if we were to just throw it away now, would that not be counter productive in order to our survival?
The ego has many attributes, it can get out of control, if we let it, but it can teach us to stand up for ourselves too, and we need that in this world.
Its about a balance between the two i think.
xxxx

very well put and true. we don't slay the dragon, just knock it down and let it know who's boss. most of us are raised for ego to be a false notion of the true self rather than just a component of self/being, can be quite difficult to rectify this without any tools or guidance. balance is needed for sure and usually "reconditioning" too

ego is conditioned to connect to certain emotional energies in accordance with external stimuli and desires. this can all be undone and tailored to your own preferences. an example would be if someone were to insult you and you were conditioned to connect to anger or rage. your mind would then react to the emotional energies of anger or rage and seek retaliation. if you reconditioned your ego you could receive insults and connect to unconditional love and only feel sorry for the person who is insulting you and not seek retaliation. rather want to help him/her. alternatively you can master your ego and mindflow so that if you still connect to anger or rage your consciousness is separated from emotional energies. so when you feel rage you would know that it is only an external energy and you would have no angry thoughts. the feeling would just pass by without you having reacted to it.

the best way to learn is through yourself. get to know your feelings and thoughts inside out. learn to separate your consciousness from your emotions. alot of thoughts arise as a reaction to emotional energies, these are always from your physical consciousness. switch your mind off and wait for thoughts to arise. soon you will identify that some thoughts are not your physical consciousness but from your higher and/or universal self. with time it will be clear as day. same process for identifying thoughts arising out of communication from higher consciousness and/or beings that are guiding you.

[Jenci]

"Just to sit, without expectation, with someone who is in pain or grief or fear, without trying to 'fix' them, or manipulate their experience in any way...



... just to listen, without trying to make things better in the moment, without playing the role of 'the one who knows'...



... just to be totally available to them - and then, on a practical level, to do what's necessary and natural in the moment...



.... this can be the most healing thing.



It's in the not-knowing, beyond our roles, unprotected, undefended, that we truly meet..."



- Jeff Foster

[greybeard]

A young nonduality teachers web site

http://www.free-awareness.com/about-us/teachers/57-bentinho-massaro-founder-teacher


There is also a great interview on Conscious TV
I suggest a search for him ( Bentinho Massaro) under program directory there.

Chris

http://www.conscious.tv/

[Wind]

I don't know if this is the right place, but I'm now in the mood to share my feelings.

I don't know if it's just me being really tired... But right now I'm getting these really intense vibes of clashing and I don't know why. It's not really anxiety, but maybe something inside me is struggling? Is it my ego or is anyone else having these feelings? I really would need some help from my spirit guides now... For once. So tired of all this negativity... So tired. Can't we all just get along?

Well, I seriously need to take a nap now.

[greybeard]

I don't know if this is the right place, but I'm now in the mood to share my feelings.

I don't know if it's just me being really tired... But right now I'm getting these really intense vibes of clashing and I don't know why. It's not really anxiety, but maybe something inside me is struggling? Is it my ego or is anyone else having these feelings? I really would need some help from my spirit guides now... For once. So tired of all this negativity... So tired. Can't we all just get along?

Well, I seriously need to take a nap now.

This is always the right place Star Seed.
Im smiling as today I feel more or less the same as you.
Most of this day spent in bed--- im not ill as such, just could not get going.
There have been many thread discussing this subject.
Here is a short one

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?39937-James-Gilliland-Challenging-Energies&p=418832&viewfull=1#post418832

Regards Chris

[another bob]

I don't know if this is the right place, but I'm now in the mood to share my feelings.

I don't know if it's just me being really tired... But right now I'm getting these really intense vibes of clashing and I don't know why. It's not really anxiety, but maybe something inside me is struggling? Is it my ego or is anyone else having these feelings? I really would need some help from my spirit guides now... For once. So tired of all this negativity... So tired. Can't we all just get along?

Well, I seriously need to take a nap now.

Greetings, Friend!

May I suggest, turn your attention away from the contents of the screen, and put it on the screen itself. Whatever appears on the screen (of awareness) is not you, is not yourself, is not yours. Let it all go by refusing to grant any of it attention. Again, bring your attention back to the screen itself and abide there. It does require some persistence, but by not granting attention to the contents, they will eventually become obsolete. What will remain? Only awareness. This is the simplest practice, since it bypasses all other remedies by going right to the root. Here, let me share something with you:


Question : What is reality?

Ramana Maharshi : Reality must be always real. It is not with forms and names. That which underlies these is the reality. It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech. It is beyond the expressions `existence, non-existence', etc.

The reality which is the mere consciousness that remains when ignorance is destroyed along with knowledge of objects, alone is the Self [atma]. In that Brahma-swarupa [real form of Brahman], which is abundant Self-awareness, there is not the least ignorance.

The reality which shines fully, without misery and without a body, not only when the world is known but also when the world is not known, is your real form [nija-swarupa].

The radiance of consciousness-bliss, in the form of one awareness shining equally within and without, is the supreme and blissful primal reality. Its form is silence and it is declared by jnanis to be the final and unobstructable state of true knowledge [jnana]. Know that jnana alone is non-attachment; jnana alone is purity; jnana is the attainment of God; jnana which is devoid of forgetfulness of Self alone is immortality; jnana alone is everything.

Question : What is this awareness and how can one obtain and cultivate it?

Ramana Maharshi : You are awareness. Awareness is another name for you. Since you are awareness there is no need to attain or cultivate it. All that you have to do is to give up being aware of other things, that is of the not-Self. If one gives up being aware of them then pure awareness alone remains, and that is the Self.

Question : If the Self is itself aware, why am I not aware of it even now?

Ramana Maharshi : There is no duality. Your present knowledge is due to the ego and is only relative. Relative knowledge requires a subject and an object, whereas the awareness of the Self is absolute and requires no object.

Remembrance also is similarly relative, requiring an object to be remembered and a subject to remember. When there is no duality, who is to remember whom? The Self is ever-present. Each one wants to know the Self. What kind of help does one require to know oneself ? People want to see the Self as something new. But it is eternal and remains the same all along. They desire to see it as a blazing light etc. How can it be so? It is not light, not darkness. It is only as it is. It cannot be defined.

The best definition is `I am that I am'. The srutis [scriptures] speak of the Self as being the size of one's thumb, the tip of the hair, an electric spark, vast, subtler than the subtlest, etc. They have no foundation in fact. It is only being, but different from the real and the unreal; it is knowledge, but different from knowledge and ignorance. How can it be defined at all? It is simply being.

Source - David Godman book "Be as You Are"

:yo:

[Jenci]

It's not really anxiety, but maybe something inside me is struggling? Is it my ego or is anyone else having these feelings?

Hi Starseed,

Yes I am familiar with that feeling. It is the ego. It is in a constant state of either resisting or grasping - you can feel the struggle.

If you can feel the struggle, then something is feeling it or observing it. Allow the struggle to be as it is but turn your attention away from it and onto what is Aware of it. Is this Awareness struggling?
Jeanette

[another bob]

It's not really anxiety, but maybe something inside me is struggling? Is it my ego or is anyone else having these feelings?

Hi Starseed,

Yes I am familiar with that feeling. It is the ego. It is in a constant state of either resisting or grasping - you can feel the struggle.

If you can feel the struggle, then something is feeling it or observing it. Allow the struggle to be as it is but turn your attention away from it and onto what is Aware of it. Is this Awareness struggling?
Jeanette

"Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have of yourself are altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and suffers, it is the person built on the foundation of your body by circumstances and influences. You are not that person. "

~Sri Nisargadatta

:yo:

[Jenci]

It's not really anxiety, but maybe something inside me is struggling? Is it my ego or is anyone else having these feelings?

Hi Starseed,

Yes I am familiar with that feeling. It is the ego. It is in a constant state of either resisting or grasping - you can feel the struggle.

If you can feel the struggle, then something is feeling it or observing it. Allow the struggle to be as it is but turn your attention away from it and onto what is Aware of it. Is this Awareness struggling?
Jeanette

"Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you have of yourself are altogether wrong. It is not you who desires, fears and suffers, it is the person built on the foundation of your body by circumstances and influences. You are not that person. "

~Sri Nisargadatta

:yo:

So true, Bob.

But the struggle feels real in the body and mind but the struggle is useful as a ticket out of it - it can be the doorway to freedom. :)

Jeanette

[another bob]

But the struggle feels real in the body and mind but the struggle is useful as a ticket out of it - it can be the doorway to freedom. :)

Hiya Sister!

I understand what you are pointing to, but here's a question for the consideration:

Is freedom an acquisition?

Certainly, we hear a lot about freedom being earned from some hard-fought struggle, but that would mean that it was something that was not already true of us, eh. If it can be gained, then it is merely provisional. However, if our true condition is always already free, then all that obstructs the recognition of this freedom is our struggle to be what we already are. When that struggle ends, then what has always been the case can reveal itself as our true nature and condition. In fact, we have never not been free. That's the case of mistaken identity I've been speaking about -- the belief that we are bound and in need of some sort of liberation, redemption, etc.. What we can ask ourselves is, is that true? Are we indeed some sort of prisoner in need of a get-out-of-jail ticket? Or is that just some line we've been sold, a kind of program we've been suckered into?

Just some food for thought on this lovely Sunday in timelssness.

:yo:

[Wind]

Thanks guys for your uplifting words... They make me feel better. These types of moment are quite rare to me these days, but it still seems that I need to balance myself and my chakras, because when my vitality is low my ego seems to take control. It almost feels like an psychic attack. I have learned to understand my ego, but I'm still just an student in these kinds of things and mastering it seems to take many lifetimes perhaps, less if you're lucky and resilient. I wonder for how long I have studied?

It's just not always easy being an lightworker, in fact it's often really damn hard! But I know that it is for a reason... I am, we are are here to learn. However sometimes frustration occurs and I guess it's just normal.

[another bob]

It's just not always easy being an lightworker, in fact it's often really damn hard!

I sure like that dog in your pic, Starseed!

Anyway, imagining oneself to be a lightworker sounds like a big job. It must come with all sorts of obligations, expectations, hopes and fears and so forth. Maybe forgetting about all that for awhile, taking a break from the whole agenda, will serve to lighten things up a bit. I used to think I was this or that, but now I don't know what I am, and yet it feels OK. In fact, it's great to be just a little bit of a fathomless mystery without any special need to be anything other than a big fat unknown.
On the other hand, whenever I am tempted to believe that I'm a somebody with some sort of mission to do something, my heart kind of sinks. I say, "Oh no, what do I have to do now?!" Then my peace gets disturbed, and I have to be serious. Of course, whenever I start getting serious, my dog Amos gives me a funny look, like "There he goes again, thinking he's a somebody!" I appreciate his concern, and think about how lucky I am just to have such a good and caring canine companion, who sees through my pretense. Everyone needs a good friend like that!

:yo:

[Wind]

I sure like that dog in your pic, Starseed!

Thanks! But it's actually not my dog even though I have one!


Anyway, imagining oneself to be a lightworker sounds like a big job. It must come with all sorts of obligations, expectations, hopes and fears and so forth. Maybe forgetting about all that for awhile, taking a break from the whole agenda, will serve to lighten things up a bit. I used to think I was this or that, but now I don't know what I am, and yet it feels OK. In fact, it's great to be just a little bit of a fathomless mystery without any special need to be anything other than a big fat unknown.
On the other hand, whenever I am tempted to believe that I'm a somebody with some sort of mission to do something, my heart kind of sinks. I say, "Oh no, what do I have to do now?!" Then my peace gets disturbed, and I have to be serious. Of course, whenever I start getting serious, my dog Amos gives me a funny look, like "There he goes again, thinking he's a somebody!" I appreciate his concern, and think about how lucky I am just to have such a good and caring canine companion, who sees through my pretense. Everyone needs a good friend like that!

:yo:

I know that you're right. I guess we people have some desire to categorize ourselves into boxes. It seems to be easier that way even though it's not. Thinking outside the box is always a good thing. And as a person I have always expected too much from myself... It's just like an feature build inside me. These days I really don't judge myself that harsh anymore, but I still have this inner desire to be something and to do something, but often I feel empowerless. I guess it comes with the territory. Yet I know that the best thing I could do right now is to ground myself. I suppose I really should just meditate more.

And yes, my dog is my best friend for sure. The unconditional love that he gives to me is just like an endless source of power that keeps me going through hard times. And which it is!

Thanks again for your words, Bob!

[another bob]

And yes, my dog is my best friend for sure. The unconditional love that he gives to me is just like an endless source of power that keeps me going through hard times. And which it is!


Ah, my Friend, if we could take but a portion of that unconditional love and forgiveness our canine friends offer so freely to us, and turn around and shower it upon ourselves, especially in the challenging moments of our doubt and frailty, we'd be a happier lot by far!



I still have this inner desire to be something and to do something...

No problem -- just go with that and see where it takes you. It's silly to fight with our interests. Better to see them through and recognize them for what they are, even if they turn out to be mere errors of judgment and appreciation. There's no prize waiting at the end -- there's no end. We are immortal beings of infinite potential, but we so often remain trapped in some small idea of what we truly are, when all the while the universes swirl around us in a parade of unspeakable beauty and depth!


"Our theories of the eternal are as valuable as are those that a chick, yet to break through its shell, might form of the outside world. " ~Buddha

Blessings to you, my Friend -- may all beings wag their tails in sheer happiness!

:yo:

[Jenci]

But the struggle feels real in the body and mind but the struggle is useful as a ticket out of it - it can be the doorway to freedom. :)

Hiya Sister!

I understand what you are pointing to, but here's a question for the consideration:

Is freedom an acquisition?

Certainly, we hear a lot about freedom being earned from some hard-fought struggle, but that would mean that it was something that was not already true of us, eh. If it can be gained, then it is merely provisional. However, if our true condition is always already free, then all that obstructs the recognition of this freedom is our struggle to be what we already are. When that struggle ends, then what has always been the case can reveal itself as our true nature and condition. In fact, we have never not been free. That's the case of mistaken identity I've been speaking about -- the belief that we are bound and in need of some sort of liberation, redemption, etc.. What we can ask ourselves is, is that true? Are we indeed some sort of prisoner in need of a get-out-of-jail ticket? Or is that just some line we've been sold, a kind of program we've been suckered into?

Just some food for thought on this lovely Sunday in timelssness.

:yo:

Hi Bob,

No, freedom is not an acquisition for me anymore. Nor is struggle a problem anymore. In fact I would say both are irrelevant now.

But there was a time when I really did struggle. Looking back now I can see that the struggle was part of the energetic process to take me to freedom and then to take me beyond that to a place where freedom was not needed.

In fact for this stubborn human being :) the struggle had to be quite intense for me to learn the lesson. In the end I was able to become very sensitive not only to how my mind struggled with thoughts but how the struggle manifested in feelings within the body. The more aware of this I became the more I was learning.

I learned that that the struggle was OK and I could just allow it to be. I also learned not to struggle with the struggle.

So yes looking back I can say that my struggle was my doorway to freedom.
But really there was no door needed in the first place as I was that which was beyond any need for freedom.

Contradictions and paradoxes all round. :)

Jeanette

[another bob]

But the struggle feels real in the body and mind but the struggle is useful as a ticket out of it - it can be the doorway to freedom. :)

Hiya Sister!

I understand what you are pointing to, but here's a question for the consideration:

Is freedom an acquisition?

Certainly, we hear a lot about freedom being earned from some hard-fought struggle, but that would mean that it was something that was not already true of us, eh. If it can be gained, then it is merely provisional. However, if our true condition is always already free, then all that obstructs the recognition of this freedom is our struggle to be what we already are. When that struggle ends, then what has always been the case can reveal itself as our true nature and condition. In fact, we have never not been free. That's the case of mistaken identity I've been speaking about -- the belief that we are bound and in need of some sort of liberation, redemption, etc.. What we can ask ourselves is, is that true? Are we indeed some sort of prisoner in need of a get-out-of-jail ticket? Or is that just some line we've been sold, a kind of program we've been suckered into?

Just some food for thought on this lovely Sunday in timelssness.

:yo:

Hi Bob,

No, freedom is not an acquisition for me anymore. Nor is struggle a problem anymore. In fact I would say both are irrelevant now.

But there was a time when I really did struggle. Looking back now I can see that the struggle was part of the energetic process to take me to freedom and then to take me beyond that to a place where freedom was not needed.

In fact for this stubborn human being :) the struggle had to be quite intense for me to learn the lesson. In the end I was able to become very sensitive not only to how my mind struggled with thoughts but how the struggle manifested in feelings within the body. The more aware of this I became the more I was learning.

I learned that that the struggle was OK and I could just allow it to be. I also learned not to struggle with the struggle.

So yes looking back I can say that my struggle was my doorway to freedom.
But really there was no door needed in the first place as I was that which was beyond any need for freedom.

Contradictions and paradoxes all round. :)

Jeanette

Effort is necessary up to the stage of realization. Even then the Self should spontaneously become evident, otherwise happiness would not be complete. Up to the stage of spontaneity there must be effort, in some form or other.

Divine grace is essential for realization. But grace is vouchsafed only to him who is a true devotee or a yogi. It is given only to those who have striven hard and ceaselessly on the path to freedom.

There is a state beyond effort and effortlessness. Until it is realized, effort is necessary... Grace is always there. But practice is also necessary.

It is necessary both for you to strive and for the guru to help.

Effortlessness and choiceless awareness is our real nature. If we can attain that state and abide in it, it is all right. But one cannot reach it without effort, the effort of deliberate meditation.

Sadhanas are needed as long as one has not realized it. They are for putting an end to obstacles... there are no short cuts to moksha.

~Sri Ramana Maharshi

:yo:

[greybeard]

The Ramana quote is much appreciated another bob.

On the one hand some say we can do nothing as there is no individual to actually act--- on the other hand Ramana is clear that the seeming individual can remove obstacles.
I can see that there is no individual but I can also see that there is a case for making an effort.
Another paradox.

It is perhaps by the Grace of God that searching becomes a magnificent obsession.
It is hard to see this as a total waste of time as some claim.

Whatever works!!!!!

Chris

[another bob]

The Ramana quote is much appreciated another bob.

On the one hand some say we can do nothing as there is no individual to actually act--- on the other hand Ramana is clear that the seeming individual can remove obstacles.
I can see that there is no individual but I can also see that there is a case for making an effort.
Another paradox.

It is perhaps by the Grace of God that searching becomes a magnificent obsession.
It is hard to see this as a total waste of time as some claim.

Whatever works!!!!!

Chris

Hiya Chris!

One of the most powerful quotes from Sri Nisargadatta on the subject:

Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not be convinced that effort will take you nowhere. The self is so self-confident that unless it is totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal conviction is not enough. Hard facts alone can show the absolute nothingness of the self-image.

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/132842465

:yo:

[greybeard]

The Ramana quote is much appreciated another bob.

On the one hand some say we can do nothing as there is no individual to actually act--- on the other hand Ramana is clear that the seeming individual can remove obstacles.
I can see that there is no individual but I can also see that there is a case for making an effort.
Another paradox.

It is perhaps by the Grace of God that searching becomes a magnificent obsession.
It is hard to see this as a total waste of time as some claim.

Whatever works!!!!!

Chris

Hiya Chris!

One of the most powerful quotes from Sri Nisargadatta on the subject:

Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not be convinced that effort will take you nowhere. The self is so self-confident that unless it is totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal conviction is not enough. Hard facts alone can show the absolute nothingness of the self-image.

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/132842465

:yo:

Thanks again Bob.
I get that--- and I have been totally discouraged several times and given up and Then and THEN.!!!!!

Chris

[another bob]

... I have been totally discouraged several times and given up and Then and THEN.!!!!!

Ain't that the truth!

In looking back, I recall a time at the Zen Monastery when I had reached a point of total frustration with the whole endeavor. I had climbed up the side of a hill behind the facility one morning, and while the monks were all chanting the morning sutras down in the hall, I was smashing tree branches against rocks in a fury of emotional discharge. When I had worn myself out, I flopped down in the dirt and just gave up -- all my hopes and notions about spirituality were recognized as utter garbage, and I had no clever substitute to insert in their place. In that moment, I guess you could say I had become "available".

How sweet the air smelled, how incredible the vistas of open sky surrounding me! There was no separation -- all was a simple miraculous perfection! How had I missed this -- this life flowing through everything? Tears poured out like a river.

Eventually, I wandered back down to the monastery in time for the daily sanzen, or meeting with the Master. He took one look at me, grunted, and said, "OK". I got up and walked out of the room, and on into the rest of my life with both hands open.

:yo:

[greybeard]

... I have been totally discouraged several times and given up and Then and THEN.!!!!!

Ain't that the truth!

In looking back, I recall a time at the Zen Monastery when I had reached a point of total frustration with the whole endeavor. I had climbed up the side of a hill behind the facility one morning, and while the monks were all chanting the morning sutras down in the hall, I was smashing tree branches against rocks in a fury of emotional discharge. When I had worn myself out, I flopped down in the dirt and just gave up -- all my hopes and notions about spirituality were recognized as utter garbage, and I had no clever substitute to insert in their place. In that moment, I guess you could say I had become "available".

How sweet the air smelled, how incredible the vistas of open sky surrounding me! There was no separation -- all was a simple miraculous perfection! How had I missed this -- this life flowing through everything? Tears poured out like a river.

Eventually, I wandered back down to the monastery in time for the daily sanzen, or meeting with the Master. He took one look at me, grunted, and said, "OK". I got up and walked out of the room, and on into the rest of my life with both hands open.

:yo:

You have brought a tear to my eye--- of gratitude.
Off to look for some branches and a big rock--- but wait its dark and cold and wet.
Tomorrow I give up.

Seriously though, I have just about had it with searching---- it has been dying away---- and the mind is virtually quiet.
Nothing I can do and I know that now.

Love Chris

[another bob]

I have just about had it with searching---- it has been dying away---- and the mind is virtually quiet.
Nothing I can do and I know that now.

“A quiet mind is all you need. All else will happen rightly, once your mind is quiet. As the sun on rising makes the world active, so does self-awareness affect changes in the mind. In the light of calm and steady self-awareness, inner energies wake up and work miracles without any effort on your part.”

― Nisargadatta Maharaj

:yo:

[Jenci]

Thanks for the great sharing guys.

On the subject of effort and self-enquiry. I used to question all the time, all day long. Some days I used to think I was going mad as it was hard bloody work.

I don't even know when it happened, but one day I realised that I was no longer questioning. It's like the questions were already asked and answered.

The mind/ego was still there doing it's thing, I just knew that was not me.

Jeanette

[another bob]

Thanks for the great sharing guys.

On the subject of effort and self-enquiry. I used to question all the time, all day long. Some days I used to think I was going mad as it was hard bloody work.

I don't even know when it happened, but one day I realised that I was no longer questioning. It's like the questions were already asked and answered.

The mind/ego was still there doing it's thing, I just knew that was not me.

Jeanette

Sister, are you keeping a journal? Not for self-confirmation, but perhaps it would be useful for sharing with others (esp. your son) down the road, to reveal the bigger picture of how the flower opens and blossoms.

Again, much appreciation for your contributions!

:yo:

[greybeard]

We are in this together for sure.
Im learning much from the recent posts.
I will have to dig out my Nisargadatta and Ramana books.
Back to the beginning Lol
Ive forgotten so much and I need to forget the rest.

Much love Chris

[another bob]

We are in this together for sure.
Im learning much from the recent posts.
I will have to dig out my Nisargadatta and Ramana books.
Back to the beginning Lol
Ive forgotten so much and I need to forget the rest.

Much love Chris


Heya Chris, nobody nails it like this guy -- his words destroy all other words!

For those without access to the hard copy, here right online:

http://prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta/books/I-am-that-1.html#foreword

:yo:

[greybeard]

We are in this together for sure.
Im learning much from the recent posts.
I will have to dig out my Nisargadatta and Ramana books.
Back to the beginning Lol
Ive forgotten so much and I need to forget the rest.

Much love Chris


Heya Chris, nobody nails it like this guy -- his words destroy all other words!

For those without access to the hard copy, here right online:

http://prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta/books/I-am-that-1.html#foreword

:yo:

I lent/gave away my copy of "I am That"
Thanks for the link.

Much love
Chris

[another bob]

I lent/gave away my copy of "I am That"

Sheesh yeah -- I know what you mean!

I guess one of my goofy goals is to have given away every book by the time I croak! ;)

[Jenci]

Thanks for the great sharing guys.

On the subject of effort and self-enquiry. I used to question all the time, all day long. Some days I used to think I was going mad as it was hard bloody work.

I don't even know when it happened, but one day I realised that I was no longer questioning. It's like the questions were already asked and answered.

The mind/ego was still there doing it's thing, I just knew that was not me.

Jeanette

Sister, are you keeping a journal? Not for self-confirmation, but perhaps it would be useful for sharing with others (esp. your son) down the road, to reveal the bigger picture of how the flower opens and blossoms.

Again, much appreciation for your contributions!

:yo:

Haven't thought about that. I've had no desire to either. Thanks Bob....I shall consider it
Jeanette

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Back to the beginning Lol


LOL, that's really funny Chris. There's still more :)

Jeanette

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread.

[RunningDeer]

I've deleted because sharing this makes me feel too vulnerable.

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread.

[another bob]

You can never understand the tremendous peace that is always there within you, that is your natural state. Your trying to create a peaceful state of mind is in fact creating disturbance within you. You can only talk of peace, create a state of mind and say to yourself that you are very peaceful — but that is not peace; that is violence. So there is no use in practicing peace, there is no reason to practice silence. Real silence is explosive; it is not the dead state of mind that spiritual seekers think. This is volcanic in its nature; it’s bubbling all the time–the energy, the life–that is its quality. The noise in the street is the Silence; the roar of the train, that is Silence. You may ask how I know. I don’t know. Life is aware of itself, if we can put it that way — it is conscious of itself.

What is keeping you from being in your natural state? You are constantly moving away from yourself. You want to be happy, either permanently or at least for this moment. You are dissatisfied with your everyday experiences, and so you want some new ones. You want to perfect yourself, to change yourself. You are reaching out, trying to be something other than what you are. It is this that is taking you away from yourself.
Society has put before you the ideal of a ‘perfect man’. No matter in which culture you were born, you have scriptural doctrines and traditions handed down to you to tell you how to behave. You are told that through due practice you can even eventually come into the state attained by the sages, saints and saviors of mankind. And so you try to control your behavior, to control your thoughts, to be something unnatural.
We are all living in a ‘thought sphere’. Your thoughts are not your own; they belong to everybody. There are only thoughts, but you create a counter-thought, the thinker, with which you read every thought. Your effort to control life has created a secondary movement of thought within you, which you call the ‘I’. This movement of thought within you is parallel to the movement of life, but isolated from it; it can never touch life. You are a living creature, yet you lead your entire life within the realm of this isolated, parallel movement of thought. You cut yourself off from life — that is something very unnatural.

The natural state is not a ‘thoughtless state’ — that is one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated for thousands of years on poor, helpless Hindus. You will never be without thought until the body is a corpse, a very dead corpse. Being able to think is necessary to survive. But in this state thought stops choking you; it falls into its natural rhythm. There is no longer a ‘you’ who reads the thoughts and thinks that they are ‘his’.

If you practice any system of mind control, automatically the ‘you’ is there, and through this it is continuing. Have you ever meditated, really seriously meditated? Or do you know anyone who has? Nobody does. If you seriously meditate, you’ll wind up in the loony bin. Nor can you practice mindfulness trying to be aware every moment of your life. You cannot be aware; you and awareness cannot co-exist. If you could be in a state of awareness for one second by the clock, once in your life, the continuity would be snapped, the illusion of the experiencing structure, the ‘you’, would collapse, and everything would fall into the natural rhythm. In this state you do not know what you are looking at — that is awareness. If you recognize what you are looking at, you are there, again experiencing the old, what you know.
What makes one person come into his natural state, and not another person, I don’t know. Perhaps it’s written in the cells. It is acausal. It is not an act of volition on your part; you can’t bring it about. There is absolutely nothing you can do. You can distrust any man who tells you how he got into this state. One thing you can be sure of is that he cannot possibly know himself, and cannot possibly communicate it to you. There is a built-in triggering mechanism in the body. If the experiencing structure of thought happens to let go, the other thing will take over in its own way. The functioning of the body will be a totally different functioning, without the interference of thought except when it is necessary to communicate with somebody. To put it in the boxing-ring phrase, you have to “throw in the towel,” be totally helpless. No one can help you, and you cannot help yourself.

U. G. Krishnamurti


:yo:

[greybeard]

The Absolute absence is everything
The Absence of everything
Is the Absolute

OR

Ego/mind
strengthens concepts
of knowledge and ideas
to keep from dying
to the Absolute

All truth
Good to have you here.

Chris

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread.

[greybeard]

Ramesh said
"God gave you an ego let Him remove it."

C

[RunningDeer]

The Absolute absence is everything
The Absence of everything
Is the Absolute

OR

Ego/mind
strengthens concepts
of knowledge and ideas
to keep from dying
to the Absolute

All truth
Good to have you here.

Chris

Thanks, graybeard. Pressure's off when there's no answers to questions with no answers. Tee...

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread.

[another bob]

@greybeard - Ramesh said "God gave you an ego let Him remove it." Still learning how to get around. ;(

Meant for this to go with your response. It was suppose to be bookend set.

Why stop there?
Why not let Her remove the mind?
I say, go right to the heart-song for Her guidance.


Totapuri approached Ramakrishna with the proposal that he receive initiation into Advaita Vedanta. Ramakrishna replied, "I must ask my Mother Kali." He entered the temple and received permission from the living divinity that he experienced pulsatiing through the stone image enshrined there. That evening, Toatpuri began instructing him in Formless Meditation. But as Ramakrishna concentrated deeply, the radiant figure of the Goddess appeared to his inner eye. When he reported this to Totapuri, the austere naked monk took a sharp stone and pressed it firmly against Ramakrishna's forehead, instructing him to concentrate on the pain and assuring him that he could transcend the divine form and merge into the infinite expanse of the absolute. Once more, Ramakrishna meditated and, as he later expressed it, "with the sword of wisdom, I cut through the divine form of Kali." Her form dissolved, and his individuality completely disappeared into Her formless aspect. For three days Ramakrishna was completely lost to the world in a near state of suspended animation called Nirodha, seated in the small Meditation Hut, motionless, all breathing and body functions slowed to a standstill.

Totapuri was amazed, because, like the Buddha's brother or cousin Ananda, Totapuri had practiced for forty years to achieve the same level of experience -- nirvikalpa samadhi -- the disappearance of individual identity in the Absolute. It occurred to Ramakrishna in a single sitting.

Ramakrishna remained silent for six days and finally, when he opened his eyes he thanked Totapuri saying "If you had not come, I would have lived my whole life with the hallucination. My last barrier has fallen away." He became Enlightened after he had cut the last barrier. But even the followers of Ramakrishna don't mention the incident because it makes the whole effort of worshipping futile.

http://www.gurusfeet.com/guru/totapuri-maharaj


:yo:

[greybeard]

@greybeard - Ramesh said "God gave you an ego let Him remove it." Still learning how to get around. ;(

Meant for this to go with your response. It was suppose to be bookend set.

Why stop there?
Why not let Her remove the mind?
I say, go right to the heart-song for Her guidance.

(I'm being an ego and flip right now. Sorry. And totally disrespectful of You and Ramesh. I'm going to apologize twice in this post. Sorry)

There is no disrespect in what you say.
Just be as you are WhiteCrowBlackDeer.
Whatever comes up comes up.
Chris

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread. You all had a lot of patience. Thank you.

[Jenci]

Oh, man..Grrrr @greybeard, this was suppose to attach to your response. I hope you can follow the thread. And I'll leave it at that.

My Message:
You are the definition of Enlightenment...

Welcome to Avalon Whitecrowblackdeer.

If you click on 'reply with quote' text of the post quoted will appear in the box with a {quote} at the start and {/quote} at the end. Begin your typing after the {/quote}.

You can also make your own quotes by inserting any text within {quote}and {/quote}.

I've used { } instead of [ ] here otherwise I would have quoted in this post.
Take your time....you'll get there :)

Jeanette

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread. You all had a lot of patience. Thank you.

[Jenci]

Welcome to Avalon Whitecrowblackdeer.

If you click on 'reply with quote' text of the post quoted will appear in the box with a {quote} at the start and {/quote} at the end. Begin your typing after the {/quote}.

You can also make your own quotes by inserting any text within {quote}and {/quote}.

I've used { } instead of [ ] here otherwise I would have quoted in this post.
Take your time....you'll get there :)

Jeanette

Testing, testing, 1,2,3... I've cut and pasted your message in case it gets lost in that black hole that's been following me all around. I've name the saved document, "Life Preserver"

Tee, it's working... Thank you, Jeanette. I thought I was doing that. I'll still "review" your note. Thanks bunches!

You've got it !!:thumb:

[Jenci]

Thanks Bob for this quote.



Real silence is explosive; it is not the dead state of mind that spiritual seekers think.

Explosive. Such a great way to describe it. A paradox, a contradiction, as usual. But so true. :)




The natural state is not a ‘thoughtless state’ — that is one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated for thousands of years on poor, helpless Hindus. You will never be without thought until the body is a corpse, a very dead corpse. Being able to think is necessary to survive. But in this state thought stops choking you; it falls into its natural rhythm. There is no longer a ‘you’ who reads the thoughts and thinks that they are ‘his’.


I spent much of my life thinking I was cursed with an over active mind, with an incessant stream of thoughts, usually of the insane type, all my waking hours. In fact I think I was blessed with this mind which will not shut up thinking.

I've learned, that despite the thoughts, the silence is here. There can be perfect stillness in the midst of chaos.
I am no longer troubled by my mind.

Feelings come and go, yet I remain.

Jeanette

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread. You all had a lot of patience. Thank you.

[RunningDeer]

Hi Vidya
I suggest that Higher self is actually looking after one.
Your are right that the human race would not have survived this far without ego for the reasons you have mentioned.
However that intellect that created many good snd useful things also created many that are not life supporting.
We are heading into a time of transition of consciousness in fact a new breed of human you could call Homo spiritus, that is a dfinition used by Dr David Hawkins in several books of his.
the publisher is
http://www.veritaspub.com/
well worth a quick vist to the web page.\
thanks for your contribution.
Chris

I've read most of his material. I'd second it. Thinker, Philosopher. And if you are ready, a Life changer.

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread. You all had a lot of patience. Thank you.

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread. You all had a lot of patience. Thank you.

[RunningDeer]

New to PA back then, now I see that this doesn't fit this thread. You all had a lot of patience. Thank you.

[Jenci]

And for me, posting this now is a decision I’ve made even though I feel incredibly vulnerable.

Hi WhiteCrow,

If I had to say one thing about this path to enlightenment, I would say it is about being vulnerable. It's about being unguarded, it's about no longer protecting myself, it's about coming out of hiding and it's about doing things which I know are going to hurt me.

You see, in the end, there is no choice but to be vulnerable. Time and time again.... until there is no more being vulnerable or being safe and I no longer mind if there is pain or not.

Jeanette

[Jenci]

A favourite quote of mine on being vulnerable by Jeff Foster

http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/read/essays-transcripts/poetry/

Jeanette




HEARTBREAK



Life is here to break your heart over and over again
until you realise that heartbreak is life too.

And then your heart can no longer be broken.
Or fixed.

And you stand naked in front of life, moment by moment,
knowing that whatever happens is totally okay
even in the midst of perfect devastation,
which, of course, is devastating perfection.

This is freedom beyond the speaking of it.

[RunningDeer]

And for me, posting this now is a decision I’ve made even though I feel incredibly vulnerable.

Hi WhiteCrow,

If I had to say one thing about this path to enlightenment, I would say it is about being vulnerable. It's about being unguarded, it's about no longer protecting myself, it's about coming out of hiding and it's about doing things which I know are going to hurt me.

You see, in the end, there is no choice but to be vulnerable. Time and time again.... until there is no more being vulnerable or being safe and I no longer mind if there is pain or not.

Jeanette

Wow, Jeanette, whew, I can stop holding my breath now! Your words are freeing. And your timing - impeccable. I'm sending an understated thank you, with a good dose of heart mixed in, Paula xo (WhiteCrowBlackDeer)