Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[another bob]

Anita Moorjani:

And when I embrace my ego, I develop a healthy relationship with it, with no judgment. Then, and only then, am able to see beyond the ego, and get in touch with my greater, infinite self. Ironically, the more obsessed I become with trying to transcend my ego, the more entangled I become with my ego!



Thanks Bob

I wouldn't personally use the term "embrace the ego" in case that led to a grasping of the ego, instead of resisting it.


When I was in this situation I used the question "Who is trying to transcend the ego?", emphasis on the word "Who?"


Jeanette

Good point, Sister!

I always come back to the wisdom of the Ashtavakra Gita:

"Embrace nothing,
turn nothing away."


:yo:

[Jenci]

Anita Moorjani:

And when I embrace my ego, I develop a healthy relationship with it, with no judgment. Then, and only then, am able to see beyond the ego, and get in touch with my greater, infinite self. Ironically, the more obsessed I become with trying to transcend my ego, the more entangled I become with my ego!



Thanks Bob

I wouldn't personally use the term "embrace the ego" in case that led to a grasping of the ego, instead of resisting it.


When I was in this situation I used the question "Who is trying to transcend the ego?", emphasis on the word "Who?"


Jeanette

Good point, Sister!

I always come back to the wisdom of the Ashtavakra Gita:

"Embrace nothing,
turn nothing away."


:yo:


Words are so very difficult with this. If we are talking on a one to one with someone we can use words to convey the meaning we want dependant on how we think the person is interpreting them through their own filters of conditioning and understanding.


Anything that wants to/tries to transcend the ego, is the ego itself. The irony is that in realising that we transcend the ego.



Although I will say that trying to get rid of the ego and the struggle that will follow may not be a bad thing....very often it is the struggle which brings us to the point of surrender.


Now I am just complicating things ;)

Jeanette

[another bob]

Now I am just complicating things ;)

LOL, Sister!

The oft-encountered problem in such matters is our tendency to confuse or conflate absolute truth with relative truth. For example, Anita is pointing to a conventional, or relative truth, and you to an ultimate, or absolute one. Many great sages have labored mightily to illuminate this paradoxical issue, but few were as clear as Nagarjuna, when he noted:

"Those who do not understand
The division of these two realities
Do not understand the profound true reality
Of the Buddha's teaching.

Without reliance on conventions,
The ultimate cannot be taught.
Without realization of the ultimate,
Nirvana will not be attained."


or:


"The dharmas taught by buddhas
Hinge on two truths:
Partial truths of the world
And truths which are sublime.
Without knowing how they differ,
You cannot know the deep;
Without relying on conventions,
You cannot disclose the sublime;
Without intuiting the sublime,
You cannot experience freedom."


Now, for a remarkably thorough (though somwhat academic-sounding) analysis, here's a link for those who may wish to delve into the matter more deeply:

http://www.lotsawahouse.org/two-truths-patrul-rinpoche-lotsawa-house


:yo:

[NancyV]

Dear greybeard, in my opinion we have tho types of Ego, the mortal Ego and the Multidimensional Ego. The mortal Ego is the son of our emotional body, physical body, and mental body. This is the Ego that must be transcended, this is the Ego that if grow too much creates the separation. When that happens we think that we are alone and disconected from the rest, if it grows more and more, we will become to be the dark side. To be able to transcended we must to look inside of us, we must to look ourselves in to the mirrow with out judge. To be able to do this we must to use the humor, this is our weapon to defeat our mortal Ego. When you see things of yourself that make you better than the rest, just laugh of yourself, and the vanity will dissapear. When you see things that are dark, laugh of yourself and the guilt will dissapear. With the practice and the perseverance you will transcended the mortal ego and you will open the door to the Multidimensional Ego.

Be good and enjoy life.
That's exactly what I do, Bing Lalo. I am constantly laughing at myself for occasional feelings of guilt or episodes of silliness. I accept that these are patterned human reactions and I don't mind that they occasionally arise. It makes life interesting!

As Bob says, I embrace my ego. I accept and love my ego. Then it can relax and let go, merge into the multi-dimensional Ego and ultimately the Source, which is the great BIG one and only EGO. The ultimate I AM. "Enlightenment" is not meant to be serious. (at least not for me) It's about the most humorous and joyous thing I've ever experienced.

[greybeard]

Ramesh Balsekar who translated for Nasargadatta said,
"God gave you an ego let Him remove it"

The ego was absolutely necessary for the early survival of the human species (duality) however things may be changing.
Gregg Braden pointed out that in numerous Scientific studies it was found that in no situation was competition positive life supporting etc, quite the reverse.
The scientists maintained that cooperation was the most successful mode and now essential to the survival of the species.
He also maintained that the Darwin philosophy of survival of the fit est was the main reason for the woes of the world as it lead to Elitism as in Nazism (Hitler and other elitist megalomaniacs)

I think with some humility and kindness to others the ego naturally starts to diminish.
There are levels on the spiritual path and probably best to work within ones current understanding.
Im reading Ramanas translation of the Agamas and they are clear that one must not meitate on being one with God-- the recomendation is to be single minded in the knowledge that I am,
Quote.
"Siva is other than me I am other than Siva
Uproot this attitude of differentiation.
I am indeed that Shiva
This conviction that is non dual ever practice"

"There is no greater blessing anywhere
Than gaining the Self
Meditate ever on the Self. He who is the Self
Is indeed the one all pervasive Supreme Self
Be aware of this"

Now once upon a time I would have seen this as blasphemous--- not now


Welcome to Bing Lalo

Regards to all contributors and readers

Chris

[greybeard]

Spiritual teachers

Its a question of which teaching is appropriate to the level the student is at.
One level is not better than another just different.
Advanced physics is not appropriate to a pre university student, all students are equal just in a different place

So some teachers are very much in duality--- they teach how to protect your individuality, your uniqueness--- how to claim your sovereignty, gain your power etc. All beneficial if the goal is not enlightenment.

Non-duality
The enlightened teachers teach that you are not the persona-- not the ego not the body but they teach you to respect your seeming uniqueness and persona.
They teach non attachment to thoughts and anything that comes and goes.
Its very subtle.
They teach compassion and love for all without exception for all are One.
They teach non judgement while still having preferences.
Nothing is seen as right nor wrong but rather helpful, life supporting or not.
Just degrees of love-- from unconditional to absence of love.
As long as the story of me is identified with there is pain and pleasure.
The enlightened are aware of pain and pleasure but dont identify with it.
The mind – the commentator, is virtually silent or at the least not identified with
After enlightenment the persona continues but the enlightened being just witnesses the actions of it.
Karma has a certain momentum which continues but Self is not affected by that.
The paradox is that life is fully experienced and enjoyed without it being a personal event--- no individual person remains
Ultimately the Self is One without a second--- only God is.

[felixq78]

Some say that the ego doesn't really exist, it's just layer upon layer of our physical existence but it still has a life of its own, it wants to rule over the true spiritual self. It's the Devil and its ultimate goal is to display its power over us by killing the physical body. Marianne Williamson has some interesting ideas on it. Her ideas on the true nature of The Devil i.e. The Ego make a lot of sense.

[greybeard]

Thanks Felixq7
Coincidently I recently watched Marianne on Super Soul Sunday (Oprah Winfry)
She was excellent.
I went to a ACIM group for about a year every weekend and that was good.

Chris

[K626]

Dear greybeard, in my opinion we have tho types of Ego, the mortal Ego and the Multidimensional Ego. The mortal Ego is the son of our emotional body, physical body, and mental body. This is the Ego that must be transcended, this is the Ego that if grow too much creates the separation. When that happens we think that we are alone and disconected from the rest, if it grows more and more, we will become to be the dark side. To be able to transcended we must to look inside of us, we must to look ourselves in to the mirrow with out judge. To be able to do this we must to use the humor, this is our weapon to defeat our mortal Ego. When you see things of yourself that make you better than the rest, just laugh of yourself, and the vanity will dissapear. When you see things that are dark, laugh of yourself and the guilt will dissapear. With the practice and the perseverance you will transcended the mortal ego and you will open the door to the Multidimensional Ego.

Be good and enjoy life.
That's exactly what I do, Bing Lalo. I am constantly laughing at myself for occasional feelings of guilt or episodes of silliness. I accept that these are patterned human reactions and I don't mind that they occasionally arise. It makes life interesting!

As Bob says, I embrace my ego. I accept and love my ego. Then it can relax and let go, merge into the multi-dimensional Ego and ultimately the Source, which is the great BIG one and only EGO. The ultimate I AM. "Enlightenment" is not meant to be serious. (at least not for me) It's about the most humorous and joyous thing I've ever experienced.

Can identity with all of that Nancy. After all the ego is an antiquated self-defence meme after all. :)

Nothing healthier than laughing at one's own antics. :lol:

love

K

[another bob]

As long as we follow a spiritual approach promising salvation, miracles, liberation, then we are bound by the "golden chain of spirituality." Such a chain might be beautiful to wear, with its inlaid jewels and intricate carvings, but nevertheless, it imprisons us. People think they can wear the golden chain for decoration without being imprisoned by it, but they are deceiving themselves. As long as one's approach to spirituality is based upon enriching ego, then it is spiritual materialism, a suicidal process rather than a creative one.

All the promises we have heard are pure seduction. We expect the teachings to solve all our problems; we expect to be provided with magical means to deal with our depressions, our aggressions, our sexual hang-ups. But to our surprise we begin to realize that this is not going to happen. It is very disappointing to realize that we must work on ourselves and our suffering rather than depend upon a savior or the magical power of yogic techniques. It is disappointing to realize that we have to give up our expectations rather than build on the basis of our preconceptions.

We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshipping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult.

Such a series of disappointments inspires us to give up ambition. We fall down and down and down, until we touch the ground, until we relate with the basic sanity of earth. We become the lowest of the low, the smallest of the small, a grain of sand, perfectly simple, no expectations. When we are grounded, there is no room for dreaming or frivolous impulse, so our practice at last becomes workable. We begin to learn how to make a proper cup of tea, how to walk straight without tripping. Our whole approach to life becomes more simple and direct, and any teachings we might hear or books we might read become workable. They become confirmations, encouragements to work as a grain of sand, as we are, without expectations, without dreams.

We have heard so many promises, have listened to so many alluring descriptions of exotic places of all kinds, have seen so many dreams, but from the point of view of a grain of sand, we could not care less. We are just a speck of dust in the midst of the universe. At the same time our situation is very spacious, very beautiful and workable. In fact, it is very inviting, inspiring. If you are a grain of sand, the rest of the universe, all the space, all the room is yours, because you obstruct nothing, overcrowd nothing, possess nothing. There is tremendous openness. You are the emperor of the universe because you are a grain of sand. The world is very simple and at the same time very dignified and open, because your inspiration is based upon disappointment, which is without the ambition of the ego.

~Chogyam Trungpa

[Jenci]

~Chogyam Trungpa


We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshipping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult.



Treading the spiritual path is painful. Full of disappointments not only to the seeker but to others who know the seeker.

You come to realise that you have to give up all ideas that you have about enlightenment. You have to give up the idea that it will make you a better person - more loving, kind, generous, compassionate.

You have to give up the idea that it will enable you to create and manifest the good things in your life and enable peace and good health.

You have to give up the idea that you will liked and approved of by those around us whether they be close relationships, family, friends or just acquaintances. You have to give up the idea that you can even keep those people in your life.

When you have given up these ideas of what enlightenment is about, you will find you have acquired some more along the way and you will be disappointed by those who had led you to believe that enlightenment was about "something"......and disappointed in yourself for believing in what they had said.

...and it will go on like this; disappointment and loss until there is nothing left, like Chogyam Trungpa says, just like a grain of sand.

Loss.
Nothing.
No-one.

Not even the idea "Poor me, all that is left is nothing, just this grain of sand" Even that has to go as it is seen that the Me-ness is so desperate to survive it it will cling to being an insignificant speck or grain of sand.

Yet despite the trail of disappointments and loss, there is a longing for more loss. Something just craves the grain of sand.


It's one thing to know and understand what all of life is about - birth, death, incarnation, awakening, oneness, higher self or whatever......and that would be a great place to rest,to hang out, to enjoy life, to enjoy the dream, wouldn't it?

But it is another thing to be standing in the midst of a torrent of a river, nearing its source and knowing there is not a damn thing you can do about it - you're going to get swept away.



Jeanette

[greybeard]

Well Jeanette all credit to you, you really put it as it is in this experience--- mind you that is the story of me, in my case.

All belief systems, all concepts-- everything that you thought was, you must go-- no longing for a different me, an enlightened me.

Destiny pulls one to enlightenment--- choice you dont have in this.
Yogananda called this "The magnificent obsession"

Chris

[another bob]

Yet despite the trail of disappointments and loss, there is a longing for more loss. Something just craves the grain of sand.

Right, that is the "homing instinct", our red carpet to freedom!

Thanks for your perseverance, Sister -- all benefit when one stays true to the call!

:yo:

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Treading the spiritual path is painful. Full of disappointments not only to the seeker but to others who know the seeker.

You come to realise that you have to give up all ideas that you have about enlightenment. You have to give up the idea that it will make you a better person - more loving, kind, generous, compassionate.

You have to give up the idea that it will enable you to create and manifest the good things in your life and enable peace and good health.

You have to give up the idea that you will liked and approved of by those around us whether they be close relationships, family, friends or just acquaintances. You have to give up the idea that you can even keep those people in your life.

When you have given up these ideas of what enlightenment is about, you will find you have acquired some more along the way and you will be disappointed by those who had led you to believe that enlightenment was about "something"......and disappointed in yourself for believing in what they had said.

...and it will go on like this; disappointment and loss until there is nothing left, like Chogyam Trungpa says, just like a grain of sand.

Loss.
Nothing.
No-one.

Not even the idea "Poor me, all that is left is nothing, just this grain of sand" Even that has to go as it is seen that the Me-ness is so desperate to survive it it will cling to being an insignificant speck or grain of sand.

Yet despite the trail of disappointments and loss, there is a longing for more loss. Something just craves the grain of sand.


It's one thing to know and understand what all of life is about - birth, death, incarnation, awakening, oneness, higher self or whatever......and that would be a great place to rest,to hang out, to enjoy life, to enjoy the dream, wouldn't it?

But it is another thing to be standing in the midst of a torrent of a river, nearing its source and knowing there is not a damn thing you can do about it - you're going to get swept away.



Jeanette

I have to say, I was stunned when I read your post. Once again I'm reminded not to assume that my experience is somewhat the same as others. My experience has been, thus far, so different. Please don't think I'm negating or judging your experience - and perhaps I'm not fully understanding your post. In fact I hesitated to post this as I didn't want it too sound as if I thought I was better, more evolved, etc. than others. But I did want the forum to see another perspective.

My experience: Treading the spiritual path, reading voraciously, learning through my experiences, applying and re-applying what I learned - has brought me from a life that was painful, discordant and emotionally chaotic - a life in which I had made myself a prisoner of my own Hellish thoughts - to a very peaceful place.

Yes, I had to give up ideas of what enlightenment is about, they morphed many times through the years. Yes, loss of many beliefs, but never disappointment in the losing, but a freedom from the chains of what my soul knew wasn't serving me.

You said for you it's been:

Loss
Nothing
No-one

For me it has been:

Loss
Nothing
Everyone

When people say: Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water
After enlightenment chop wood, carry water

I always think: Yes, but after enlightenment I chop wood and carry water with a lighter heart and a big smile on my face and with no resentment for having do to those things.

There are so many different spokes on this wheel we call life, but I believe they will eventually bring all to the peaceful hub. Perhaps not in this lifetime, but sometime. Please don't think I'm saying I know everything - I don't; I still learn daily. I still have ups and downs, but the peaks and valleys are much slighter, my emotional pendulum quite stable, my joy deeper and not connected to anyone or anything. And I attribute this all to what I have learned on the trail.

[greybeard]

Thanks for your post Ba-ba-Ra.

With me there have been short periods of disappointment but then full acceptance of what is.
I have never lost a friend or partner through spirituality--- some have drifted away probably because that.s normal in life, I still count them as my friends.
I don't discuss spiritual with those who are not interested now.
Kindness happens because that's my nature but I dont identify with it as such.
My mind is mainly silent the commentator has departed.
There is a peace and contentment regardless of what happens.
Humour arises--- sometimes inappropriately---I have a challenge taking life seriously.
I can identify with Jeanette in many ways-- tho most of the ebb and flow of spiritual progress has gone.

Love chris

[another bob]

You said for you it's been:

Loss
Nothing
No-one

For me it has been:

Loss
Nothing
Everyone


“When I see
I am nothing,
that is wisdom.

When I see
I am everything,
that is love.

Between these two
my life moves.”

Nisargadatta

[Jenci]

Treading the spiritual path is painful. Full of disappointments not only to the seeker but to others who know the seeker.

You come to realise that you have to give up all ideas that you have about enlightenment. You have to give up the idea that it will make you a better person - more loving, kind, generous, compassionate.

You have to give up the idea that it will enable you to create and manifest the good things in your life and enable peace and good health.

You have to give up the idea that you will liked and approved of by those around us whether they be close relationships, family, friends or just acquaintances. You have to give up the idea that you can even keep those people in your life.

When you have given up these ideas of what enlightenment is about, you will find you have acquired some more along the way and you will be disappointed by those who had led you to believe that enlightenment was about "something"......and disappointed in yourself for believing in what they had said.

...and it will go on like this; disappointment and loss until there is nothing left, like Chogyam Trungpa says, just like a grain of sand.

Loss.
Nothing.
No-one.

Not even the idea "Poor me, all that is left is nothing, just this grain of sand" Even that has to go as it is seen that the Me-ness is so desperate to survive it it will cling to being an insignificant speck or grain of sand.

Yet despite the trail of disappointments and loss, there is a longing for more loss. Something just craves the grain of sand.


It's one thing to know and understand what all of life is about - birth, death, incarnation, awakening, oneness, higher self or whatever......and that would be a great place to rest,to hang out, to enjoy life, to enjoy the dream, wouldn't it?

But it is another thing to be standing in the midst of a torrent of a river, nearing its source and knowing there is not a damn thing you can do about it - you're going to get swept away.



Jeanette

I have to say, I was stunned when I read your post. Once again I'm reminded not to assume that my experience is somewhat the same as others. My experience has been, thus far, so different. Please don't think I'm negating or judging your experience - and perhaps I'm not fully understanding your post. In fact I hesitated to post this as I didn't want it too sound as if I thought I was better, more evolved, etc. than others. But I did want the forum to see another perspective.

My experience: Treading the spiritual path, reading voraciously, learning through my experiences, applying and re-applying what I learned - has brought me from a life that was painful, discordant and emotionally chaotic - a life in which I had made myself a prisoner of my own Hellish thoughts - to a very peaceful place.

Yes, I had to give up ideas of what enlightenment is about, they morphed many times through the years. Yes, loss of many beliefs, but never disappointment in the losing, but a freedom from the chains of what my soul knew wasn't serving me.

You said for you it's been:

Loss
Nothing
No-one

For me it has been:

Loss
Nothing
Everyone

When people say: Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water
After enlightenment chop wood, carry water

I always think: Yes, but after enlightenment I chop wood and carry water with a lighter heart and a big smile on my face and with no resentment for having do to those things.

There are so many different spokes on this wheel we call life, but I believe they will eventually bring all to the peaceful hub. Perhaps not in this lifetime, but sometime. Please don't think I'm saying I know everything - I don't; I still learn daily. I still have ups and downs, but the peaks and valleys are much slighter, my emotional pendulum quite stable, my joy deeper and not connected to anyone or anything. And I attribute this all to what I have learned on the trail.


Hi Ba-ba-ra and thanks for your post.....it's all good to share experiences :)

The experience of the spiritual path being painful is not unique. I was responding to a post from anotherbob quoting Chogyam Trungpa saying the same. The terms “dark night of the soul” and “caught in the tiger’s mouth” are commonly used and were coined as phrases to describe this painful and difficult experience.

I have read a number of teachings and listened to experiences of people who have also described similar. I quoted Mooji the other day saying “few people can stand it” http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48214-Insights-clarity-and-inspiration.


So I am not alone in this and have at times taken comfort in this. I speak now for the benefit of others who may be feeling this painful squeeze and thinking that something has gone wrong on the spiritual path. It hasn't.....

If I go back three years and look at my life before spirituality and after, it has immeasurably improved. The pain, the misery, the loneliness, the self-destruction have all gone. The problems that I had are gone.

I am no longer disturbed by “moods”. I could tell a story about how "Jeanette" has been transformed on the spiritual path and is very grateful for the suffering of old being relieved.

But comparing the life as it was and the life as it is now, is just comparing the story of “Jeanette” with a before and an after. It’s still a story of “Jeanette”. I can see that the new and improved “Jeanette” is just as much of an illusion as the old, disturbed “Jeanette”.

When I talk about the painful spiritual path I am not talking about the progression from old Jeanette to new Jeanette I am talking about something which is much deeper in terms of existential terms of disregarding everything that I am not, including the whole story of “Jeanette”.

Now seeing that “Jeanette” and everything I perceive in the world is illusion has been fantastic from a point of view of enjoying life. For a while it was a cool place to hang out. Life lost its seriousness and I got to enjoy the ‘play’ ....I even got to enjoy playing at being “Jeanette” but understanding/seeing/knowing that it is an illusion is not the same as embodiment of that realisation.

There’s a grasping in the gut which says “I exist as me” and when that still happens while there is an opposite realisation that it is all illusion, there is a conflict which creates discomfort.

The more of “me” that I have discarded, the more sensitive I have become to that grasping. The instinct to return home just becomes stronger and there’s nothing for me to do now, just surrender.

Although in that surrender, I seem to be upsetting, disappointing and letting down other people and the list is growing longer.

You see, once upon a time I was sold the idea that enlightenment would mean that I would stop upsetting, disappointing and letting people down. I want my money back :pound:


Jeanette

[Jenci]

Destiny pulls one to enlightenment--- choice you dont have in this.
Yogananda called this "The magnificent obsession"

Chris


I used to think that my alcoholism was my lesson in life but I have learned that it was just the beginning. I tried to quit drinking for 10 years before I realised that I had no choice but to drink. It seems though that losing the power of choice was a valuable lesson to learn.

So here I am yet again. No choice. Nothing to do but surrender to it.





There is nothing to do.
Just be. Do nothing.
Be.
No climbing mountains and sitting in caves. I do not even say: ‘be yourself’, since you do not know yourself. Just be.

~Nisargadatta

[Eram]

Wow!!

This last page is becoming a treasure of insights and personal experiences of the path of enlightenment.

So interesting to read about the difference in experience between Ba-ba-Ra and jenci.
One thing that immediately came to mind was.... might the difference have something to do with the heart and how open it is in general in that person?
I say this because my path (which is very fresh and shortly started) is also a bit like Jenci describes. Most of the days are painful etc. , but along the way there is a growing awareness and it has it's own attraction.
There are days that there is some sort of bliss, sometimes even with the gut releasing it's grasping etc, but even then I witness in myself that my heart is not as open as I see it in some other people.

[another bob]

There is a particular paradox about Awakening:

For one thing, it is not always the blissful experience some expect it will be, based on popular lore. In fact, it often reveals to us in a stark and uncompromising fashion just why we chose to remain asleep for so long.

"Waking up" implies the recognition that such awareness must now be embodied, or incarnated, in the way we act and behave with each other in the world of space and time. That is what "awakened functioning" is all about. There are no longer any excuses for behaving unconsciously. Insight must be grounded in functioning, otherwise, it stays in the head, rather than making its way to the heart and gut.

At the same time, "waking up" also yields the recognition that "there is nothing to do", or more to the point, there is no doer. This is the difficult part of realization -- to discard the sense of doer-ship, let go, and "let God". It's the very sense of personal doer-ship that sabotages even profound "spiritual" experiences, where the mind adds a "me and mine" to the functioning, re-enforcing the sense of a separate and enduring self.

Spiritual maturity begins to dawn when we are willing to question our most cherished religious beliefs, assumptions, and presumed identities. When our love of Truth is such that even our most closely held notions and concepts about the nature of ourselves and existence can be submitted to honest and probing inquiry, then we become available at last to Awakening Grace.

Until then, we typically drift along in a dreamy sense of un-inspected security, at the mercy of whatever conditioning filters are operative in the body/mind (based upon prior association and interpretation of perception). In Buddhism, for example, this is called The Wheel, and it spins us through innumerable dreamy births and deaths unceasingly until the fabric of the dream itself begins to wear thin, and then there is the possibility of Seeing.

Of course, in the dream there are worlds to be saved, people at war, all manner of catastrophes and delights, and an unlimited number of seeming advances and retreats, and the wheel keeps on spinning, and the Dreamer keeps dreaming, and sometimes we seem to float above our dream bodies into some subtler variation on the dream, and fly through dream tunnels into majestic and comforting realms of light and beauty, or into perpetual hell realms of misery and despair, but never once stopping to wonder:

"Is this TRUE?"

Never once stopping to pull aside the curtain and unveil the Wizard at last, because the nature of Oz is so seductive, and those poppy fields are so very potent, and the last thing anybody really wants is to Awaken, despite all protests to the contrary, for to Awaken entails walking off the cliff of consensus reality and flinging oneself into the Unknown, and that is a terrifying prospect indeed!

Consequently, most would rather go back to sleep, to cuddle up in the comfortable blankets of illusion, and somewhere in the remote distance there is a Call, but in our accumulated congestion of dreaminess it is so easy to dismiss, until one day the truth can no longer be ignored, and the sunlight just floods through our little bedroom windows, stripping all the blankets off and exposing our nakedness, and then we are really in for it!

[Jenci]

“When I see
I am nothing,
that is wisdom.

When I see
I am everything,
that is love.

Between these two
my life moves.”

Nisargadatta



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrNnaXwy6Q&feature=relmfu

source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrNnaXwy6Q&feature=relmfu

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Destiny pulls one to enlightenment--- choice you dont have in this.
Yogananda called this "The magnificent obsession"

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qji7ZvRj65w

[another bob]

I highly recommend the 4 DVD box set from Wolinsky, for anyone who resonates with Sri Nisargadatta's teachings :

http://netinetifilms.com/films-iamthatiam-box.shtml

[Fred Steeves]

until one day the truth can no longer be ignored, and the sunlight just floods through our little bedroom windows, stripping all the blankets off and exposing our nakedness, and then we are really in for it!

Wow, there does seem to be a new dynamic at work on this last page. Every post I'm reading with awe. Yes Bob, it is nice to sleep in late, but if we press that snooze alarm one too many times, there are other, more drastic ways of getting us out of bed.(LOL)

Interesting how tossing our fate to the four winds, and stepping off the edge of that proverbial cliff, is such a welcome relief. I mean hell, why not? Everything else we tried was a miserable failure right? I no longer need to worry about what to "do" about it, it just starts happening. Here's a for instance: Just in the last year or less, I simply started to know, that I needed to forget everything I thought I knew. Everything! Whew, tall order.

What started out seeming like a monumental, if not impossible task, is actually beginning to become somewhat enjoyable. For starters, there is no hurry, because there is no time. And the task is more like casually pulling weeds from your overgrown garden on a beautiful spring day. Each little weed that supposedly belonged there is asked: "Do you belong here?" Or: "Are you true"?

The progress is not seen really weed by weed, but the occassional glance back, where the garden is now fresh, breathing, and alive again, tells the story. And you don't have to pull weeds all the time either. It's not a 9-5 requirement, and there are other things that demand our attention as well. But, you are also getting rather curious about how the finished product is going to look. Always the balancing act.

[another bob]

The progress is not seen really weed by weed, but the occassional glance back, where the garden is now fresh, breathing, and alive again, tells the story. And you don't have to pull weeds all the time either. It's not a 9-5 requirement, and there are other things that demand our attention as well. But, you are also getting rather curious about how the finished product is going to look. Always the balancing act.


In the conventional waking state, it's typical to measure ourselves in terms of past and present, and then to project our development, or evolution, into the future. Indeed, we can become quite impressed with ourselves, and all the mountains we've climbed and obstacles surmounted on our road to perfect happiness, peace, and enlightenment. Conversely, we may become somewhat dismayed and depressed about our seeming lack of progress, and so re-double our efforts to "make good".

However, when we enter into the dream state at night, all of our carefully detailed plans and notions about our "progress" evaporate, as if the person who harbored them never existed. Still, whatever dramas we may be entertaining in our dream state quickly fade into the ethers upon awakening in the morning, and though we may momentarily ponder our dream scenarios, they nevertheless have little if any impact on our "normal" waking consciousness. Rather, we return to our sense of personal continuity, complete with measuring, time, and schemes of evolution, convinced that we are this person appearing in the waking state.

Our Friend Ramana Maharshi made an interesting observation regarding these perceptions:

In saying "I had a dream; I was in deep sleep; I am awake", you must admit that you were there in all the three states. That makes it clear that you were there all the time. If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state; this becomes hidden in the dream state; and the dream state disappears when you are in deep sleep. You were there then, you are there now, and you are there all the times. The three states come and go, but you are always there.
It is like a cinema. The screen is always there but several types of pictures appear on the screen and then disappear. Nothing sticks to the screen. Similarly, you remain your own Self in all the three states. If you know that, the three states will not trouble you, just as the pictures that appear on the screen do not stick to it.
On the screen, you sometimes see a huge ocean with endless waves; that disappears. Another time, you see fire spreading all around; that too disappears. The screen is there on both occasions. Did the screen get wet with the water or did it get burned by the fire? Nothing affected the screen. In the same way, the things that happen during the wakeful, dream and sleep states do not affect you at all; you remain your own Self.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Love the sharing and acceptance of each other's thoughts and experiences on this thread. It is quite a lovely WOW! Fred.

I'm feeling that for most of us, while we understand this world is an illusion, we don't know exactly how (or perhaps are afraid to try) to wake up from it. Either way, we're here. So on the one hand, from my perspective, this thread has two parallel discussions weaving through it. One, the living within the illusion. The other the knowing there is something beyond the illusion, which we understand somewhat conceptually, but aren't yet able to access (except perhaps for some brief moments - and in truth we don't know if those moments are yet just another part of this illusion.

I have grappled with this for some time. What I've come to realize is this: (Disclaimer: what I realize could change in a moment's notice). I believe we're all aware - as Shakespeare said - that the illusion world is a stage and we're all player's playing a role. This time one of us is playing the alcoholic role, or the rapist role, or the good-kid or easy life role. Next time we might try another role. While Wolinsky (see videos above ) says we really don't have choice, and I agree with him - I also feel that's in the awakened state (which most of us haven't achieved). In the illusion we still have choice. And the deeper in the illusion we are, the more choice we have. I hope you can stay with me here because I'm having trouble getting this into words.

IMO as we learn to make our lives within the illusion better, by the choices that we make in the illusion, we become closer to the place and the recognition where there are no choices. Once we loosen our attachment to the form and the role we're playing in this lifetime and step out of the drama of it, we're begin to stir in our sleep. Each choice thereafter makes this role we've chosen a little less painful, a little more fuzzy, a little less addictive - until we finally get there. But so many are still addicted to the role, to wanting to prove they can be successful in this world or to trying to find their soul mate, or just the roller coaster of the drama. As much as they say they hate the valleys, they're not willing to give up the peaks. And that is okay; one will stay on the roller coaster until they're ready to get off, all the while talking about that 'other place'. If that's the case, as Bill Hicks has said: You might as well enjoy the ride.

I feel that my role is twofold. To help folks find enjoyment while we're stuck here. AND to explore ways to awaken from the illusion.

Now I know there are those that will say having the pain within the illusion is a good thing as it is a teaching mechanism - and this is true. But I believe there is an easier way to learn. I also see where some get so deep within the pain that the forget the lesson and just keep bringing the pain forward. In those cases the pain body becomes an entity, with a life of it's own - and it needs more and more pain in order to live. Eckhart Tolle has a good description of this in his book "The New Earth". I believe the understanding of this is important to anyone finding themselves in that place. Love to all, Barbara

[another bob]

The progress is not seen really weed by weed, but the occassional glance back, where the garden is now fresh, breathing, and alive again, tells the story. And you don't have to pull weeds all the time either. It's not a 9-5 requirement, and there are other things that demand our attention as well. But, you are also getting rather curious about how the finished product is going to look. Always the balancing act.


In the conventional waking state, it's typical to measure ourselves in terms of past and present, and then to project our development, or evolution, into the future. Indeed, we can become quite impressed with ourselves, and all the mountains we've climbed and obstacles surmounted on our road to perfect happiness, peace, and enlightenment. Conversely, we may become somewhat dismayed and depressed about our seeming lack of progress, and so re-double our efforts to "make good" and free ourselves of the illusion.

However, when we enter into the dream state at night, all of our carefully detailed plans and notions about our "progress" evaporate, as if the person who harbored them never existed. Still, whatever dramas we may be entertaining in our dream state quickly fade into the ethers upon awakening in the morning, and though we may momentarily ponder our dream scenarios, they nevertheless have little if any impact on our "normal" waking consciousness. Rather, we return to our sense of personal continuity, complete with measuring, time, and schemes of evolution, convinced that we are this person appearing in the waking state, the one making the effort to free themselves from the illusion.

Our Friend Ramana Maharshi made an interesting observation regarding these perceptions:

In saying "I had a dream; I was in deep sleep; I am awake", you must admit that you were there in all the three states. That makes it clear that you were there all the time. If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state; this becomes hidden in the dream state; and the dream state disappears when you are in deep sleep. You were there then, you are there now, and you are there all the times. The three states come and go, but you are always there.
It is like a cinema. The screen is always there but several types of pictures appear on the screen and then disappear. Nothing sticks to the screen. Similarly, you remain your own Self in all the three states. If you know that, the three states will not trouble you, just as the pictures that appear on the screen do not stick to it.
On the screen, you sometimes see a huge ocean with endless waves; that disappears. Another time, you see fire spreading all around; that too disappears. The screen is there on both occasions. Did the screen get wet with the water or did it get burned by the fire? Nothing affected the screen. In the same way, the things that happen during the wakeful, dream and sleep states do not affect you at all; you remain your own Self.

Consequently, from the “Self” position – pure awareness itself – all three states can be recognized as manifestations of the illusion of reality, and in a kind of cosmic twist of irony, the enthusiastic one who would make some sort of progress in freeing themselves from the illusion turns out to be part of that very illusion.

Conversely, the one who has never actually been implicated by the illusion born of the three states turns out to be who and what we really are – our primordial identity. That’s why the awakening ones will laugh!

¤=[Post Update]=¤



I'm feeling that for most of us, while we understand this world is an illusion, we don't know exactly how (or perhaps are afraid to try) to wake up from it.

A good way to start is to stop.

Yes, just stop granting reality to the unreal.

[Eram]

I used to think that my alcoholism was my lesson in life but I have learned that it was just the beginning. I tried to quit drinking for 10 years before I realised that I had no choice but to drink. It seems though that losing the power of choice was a valuable lesson to learn.

So here I am yet again. No choice. Nothing to do but surrender to it.



Hi Jenci,

Thanks for bringing this up Jeanette and since you brought this up voluntary, I hope that you don't mind me asking questions about this.
It certainly is a subject that touches something that I have problems understanding with.

First of all:
Do you still drink these days or where you talking about it in the past tense?
Would you mind to elaborate about you having no choice but to drink? How does that work?

I've heard that addictions are not to be seen as something to get rid of on this path.
Well I guess there are several ways of seeing this probably, but it sure is hard to grasp when you picture that with drugs that will destroy the body fast like crocodile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_4QMQbYgC8) or sniffing glue.

There is someone here on the forum who uses the path of enlightenment and NLP at the same time. He says it has done wonders for himself and loved ones of his.
In some way this seems weird to me, because this path is all about letting go of wanting to change the experience isn't it?

Eckhart Tolle says in his book, 'The Power of Now':
When the here and now is getting unbearable, there are 3 things you can do.
1. Extract yourself from that situation.
2. Change the situation.
3. Surrender to the situation.
Do it now and take full responsibility for the consequences, he says.


I quit drinking 8 months ago and I did it with 2 videos from bashar.
He talks about parallel worlds and that each of us exists in all the other parallel worlds. The easiest way yo quit an addiction is to make contact with the part of you that never used the stuff you are addicted to. Weird as it may sound, it did the trick for me. I even don't like the effects that alcohol has on me any more.
Though I must admit that I don't like having in the house still, which tells me there are still hooks in it.

hxMIfXaN1Gs

JqR4HAyzE3E

I have a personality that gets addicted to many things very easily (watching tv, computer games, reading, sweets, alcohol, gambling to name a few from the past) and I am finding out more about it every day. how it works and how and why I use these addictions to flee from the now.
It's hard for me to understand why we must not seek to get rid of addictions that are damaging to us. I mean... I can see the logic in it, but when you put it to the extreme like I did with crocodile and glue sniffing.. does this logic still hold?

Recently I discovered a revolutionary substance that seems to give people deep insights in their addictions and helps many to deal with them. for good! Ibogaine (http://www.theholisticsanctuary.com/Holistic-Modalites/Ibogaine-keywords/Ibogaine-Buzz/)
I'm curious about it and in spite of what the path of enlightenment teaches, I might give it a try.

This is Mooji has to say about addiction.

_fKeFjd4p78

So all in all, I am still confused about addictions and the path of lifting the veil of the mind.
I can see how we can use our addictions to find awareness, but when the addiction is getting so disruptive and damaging for the body or our loved ones... it gets me tangled up in my emotions about it. Isn't it just better to seek ways to end the addiction? I know what you said is more about not having a choice (unable to end the addiction?) Jeanette, but now that I started talking about it, it made me go this way here.

[another bob]

So all in all, I am still confused about addictions and the path of lifting the veil of the mind.

Hiya Toek!

My two cents:

Addictions become obsolete when attention turns to something even more attractive. For example:

Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself. So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."

— Gospel of Thomas

In my own case, I was a smoker for many years. I also had assembled a substantial wine collection. When I met my Beloved, I gave away all my wine and haven't touched a drop in a decade, because she is more intoxicating to me than any wine. With the smoking, I realized that I would not be able to afford a life insurance policy if I was still smoking. Consequently, if I were to die, I would leave my Beloved without any financial support, so I stopped. You see, my Beloved's welfare was more attractive to me than my habits, so I discarded them.

:yo:

[Eram]

So all in all, I am still confused about addictions and the path of lifting the veil of the mind.

Hiya Toek!

My two cents:

Addictions become obsolete when attention turns to something even more attractive. For example:

Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself. So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."

— Gospel of Thomas

In my own case, I was a smoker for many years. I also had assembled a substantial wine collection. When I met my Beloved, I gave away all my wine and haven't touched a drop in a decade, because she is more intoxicating to me than any wine. With the smoking, I realized that I would not be able to afford a life insurance policy if I was still smoking. Consequently, if I were to die, I would leave my Beloved without any financial support, so I stopped. You see, my Beloved's welfare was more attractive to me than my habits, so I discarded them.

:yo:

Beautiful Bob,

You told us before about the wine, but this is the first time that I read about the smoking and the reason why you gave it up.
The love that you two share is like a beacon here on Pa.
It is to me anyway :)

But still: Picture yourself as someone who gets a taste of lifting the veil of the mind and he is simultaneously hooked on crocodile (a drug that literally rips the flesh from your bones). Does that person stand a chance to get to the point where the addiction becomes obsolete?

[another bob]

Picture yourself as someone who gets a taste of lifting the veil of the mind and he is simultaneously hooked on crocodile (a drug that literally rips the flesh from your bones). Does that person stand a chance to get to the point where the addiction becomes obsolete?

Attention and intention.

Remember, your thoughts have power.

When you find out just how much, you will be amazed
that you ever let yourself be kicked around
by the puny frogs of craving.

[Jenci]

Hi Jenci,

Thanks for bringing this up Jeanette and since you brought this up voluntary, I hope that you don't mind me asking questions about this.
It certainly is a subject that touches something that I have problems understanding with.

First of all:
Do you still drink these days or where you talking about it in the past tense?
Would you mind to elaborate about you having no choice but to drink? How does that work?

Hi Waky,

I used the 'lost the power of choice' to quote from the Big Book of AA as I know that Chris would relate to this.

"The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into consciousness with sufficient force of memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink"

For the alcoholic to understand and admit that they have no choice but to drink - in other words they are completely powerless over alcohol - is the foundation Step 1 of the 12 step program of AA.

In terms of how it happened for me, it took at long time to fully realise this. I first walked into AA and said I was an alcoholic 10 years before I quit drinking. I spent 10 years either trying to control my drinking or quit and each and every attempt failed.

By the end of my drinking I absolutely loathed alcohol; the smell and taste was repulsive yet I was compelled to pour the stuff into my body however repulsive it was. When my drinking had reached this stage, it was a very dark place to be.

Each day was like groundhog day, throwing away whatever alcohol was left in the house down the sink, swearing off it forever and yet a few hours later out again to buy some more despite being gripped by fear and despising myself, knowing that I was going to have to go through the hell all over again.

One morning, the shame and the guilt of what I had done the night before as I got flashbacks to the blackout, quite literally floored me. I sat at the kitchen table, like I had done many times before, trying to work out how this time I would stop myself from drinking again. Yet instead of the usual plan and resolution for the day, my mind came to the conclusion that there was nothing I could do, and that I was going to drink again.

Feeling that dreadful shame and guilt of the night before and the fear of going through it all again, knowing that I was quite literally close to death, knowing that my young son was quite likely going to find me dead very soon and knowing that I had no choice and that I was going to still drink, was the most terrifying moment of my life!

My mind could not cope with this dilemma and just shut down. It was like a computer that crashes. It just stopped working. There was nothing, absolutely nothing going on.

I sat for a very long time at that table completely physically paralzyed, I couldn't move. "I" was gone. "I" was just not there anymore.

What had been the most terrifying moment of my life turned into the lifting of the veil. It wasn't any kind of fancy, mystical experience. I would just describe it as "nothing". Absolute nothing.

It was some time later before "I" came back and it took a while for me to be able to move my body again and to be able to speak. I had no idea what had happened but I knew with absolute certainty that I would never, ever drink again. The only reference I had for making sense of what had happened was that this had been done by God.

In the months that followed this, I sat for hours on end just in silence and staring into space. I knew what was happening was spiritual but I didn't understand the mechanics of it and it wasn't until I came across Tolle's book The Power of Now and read his experience that I understood what had happened with my mind; my mind, whose function is to problem solve, had been beaten by a problem it couldn't solve and in that had surrendered. In that surrender of the mind, I transcended it. The veil got lifted and I got to go beyond the mind.



I've heard that addictions are not to be seen as something to get rid of on this path.
Well I guess there are several ways of seeing this probably, but it sure is hard to grasp when you picture that with drugs that will destroy the body fast like crocodile or sniffing glue.

I was an alcoholic before I picked up my first drink. My primary addiction was food....and that is a whole another story in itself but suffice to say that since that day, I have not drunk alcohol nor have I eaten the vast majority of foods.

There is just no desire for it any more but that was not the end of the addictions.

The same force which had compelled me to addictive behaviour all my life got transferred onto the spiritual search. The seeking spiritually became intense. Looking back now, with hindsight, I see that the alcohol addiction was exactly the same as the spiritual seeking. It was all one movement designed to take me home.

When I said a few posts ago that I have no choice about what is happening right now, that this river which is rushing back to its source and will sweep "me" out of the way, I am talking about the same movement which has been here all this life, which early on had manifested into addictions. These days it is just seen as that which is taking back me to Source and it is not resisted.

So in that, I can see why addictions play an important role in this path and are not something to "be got rid of" - it's all Grace......but also having said, that bear in mind that most people with addictions to substances will die from their addictions.






There is someone here on the forum who uses the path of enlightenment and NLP at the same time. He says it has done wonders for himself and loved ones of his.
In some way this seems weird to me, because this path is all about letting go of wanting to change the experience isn't it?

I've come to the conclusion in all of this that no one is doing anything wrong! We are all doing exactly what we need to be doing at that time but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should all be doing what someone else is doing.

I have also learned that definitions of what enlightenment is about vary so sometimes we may be comparing apples and oranges.

For me the path to enlightenment is about going beyond the mind so any technique which involves the mind is not going to do that. The mind in some people can be eased and comforted and tamed into behaving in a more agreeable way but that's not what we discuss in this thread.






Though I must admit that I don't like having in the house still, which tells me there are still hooks in it.

Did you want to quit drinking or be cured off an addiction to it? I don't see how not wanting alcohol in the house is a problem. I don't have alcohol in my house and that does not make me any less sober than someone who has quit and can have it in the house.


On the subject of addictions, although I do believe they are all spiritual seeking at the heart of them, there is a physical component to them. For example an alcoholic's body physically reacts differently to alcohol to a normal drinker and it's important to understand this.

I see recovery from addiction as having a spiritual solution as also avoiding the physical reaction in the body by not consuming the substance. So I see no reason to test the physical by having the substance around to see if you have been cured.

Setting up a picnic on the side of a volcano is not the wisest move ;)



I have a personality that gets addicted to many things very easily (watching tv, computer games, reading, sweets, alcohol, gambling to name a few from the past) and I am finding out more about it every day. how it works and how and why I use these addictions to flee from the now.
It's hard for me to understand why we must not seek to get rid of addictions that are damaging to us. I mean... I can see the logic in it, but when you put it to the extreme like I did with crocodile and glue sniffing.. does this logic still hold?
Because getting rid of the addiction is something you do with the mind and puts attention on the mind whereas the addiction is the Grace which is taking you away from your mind.

So instead of giving the mind more attention in getting rid of the addiction, bring Awareness to the addiction itself. Of course, to do this you need to understand the difference between mind and Awareness......but then you do, Waky. :)

Jeanette

[greybeard]

Jeanette and I have never met yet there is a close bond between us because we are both recovering alcoholics.

I would not wish addiction on anyone-- however it was the unmaking of me.
No longer was my willpower seen as the answer to anything.
It obviously did not work with my addiction to alcohol.
My will power was nearly the death of me.

I had to learn enough humility to ask for help and then listen to the suggestions made through the 12 steps of AA.
That was the beginning of the spiritual search.

I am indebted to the support received when I needed it.

Anyone reading this, if they think they have a problem with alcohol, go to an AA meeting.
No shame in being an Alcoholic just a shame if you continue to suffer needlessly.

With love
Chris

[another bob]

Hi Jenci,

Thanks for bringing this up Jeanette and since you brought this up voluntary, I hope that you don't mind me asking questions about this.
It certainly is a subject that touches something that I have problems understanding with.

First of all:
Do you still drink these days or where you talking about it in the past tense?
Would you mind to elaborate about you having no choice but to drink? How does that work?

Hi Waky,

I used the 'lost the power of choice' to quote from the Big Book of AA as I know that Chris would relate to this.

"The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into consciousness with sufficient force of memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink"

For the alcoholic to understand and admit that they have no choice but to drink - in other words they are completely powerless over alcohol - is the foundation Step 1 of the 12 step program of AA.

In terms of how it happened for me, it took at long time to fully realise this. I first walked into AA and said I was an alcoholic 10 years before I quit drinking. I spent 10 years either trying to control my drinking or quit and each and every attempt failed.

By the end of my drinking I absolutely loathed alcohol; the smell and taste was repulsive yet I was compelled to pour the stuff into my body however repulsive it was. When my drinking had reached this stage, it was a very dark place to be.

Each day was like groundhog day, throwing away whatever alcohol was left in the house down the sink, swearing off it forever and yet a few hours later out again to buy some more despite being gripped by fear and despising myself, knowing that I was going to have to go through the hell all over again.

One morning, the shame and the guilt of what I had done the night before as I got flashbacks to the blackout, quite literally floored me. I sat at the kitchen table, like I had done many times before, trying to work out how this time I would stop myself from drinking again. Yet instead of the usual plan and resolution for the day, my mind came to the conclusion that there was nothing I could do, and that I was going to drink again.

Feeling that dreadful shame and guilt of the night before and the fear of going through it all again, knowing that I was quite literally close to death, knowing that my young son was quite likely going to find me dead very soon and knowing that I had no choice and that I was going to still drink, was the most terrifying moment of my life!

My mind could not cope with this dilemma and just shut down. It was like a computer that crashes. It just stopped working. There was nothing, absolutely nothing going on.

I sat for a very long time at that table completely physically paralzyed, I couldn't move. "I" was gone. "I" was just not there anymore.

What had been the most terrifying moment of my life turned into the lifting of the veil. It wasn't any kind of fancy, mystical experience. I would just describe it as "nothing". Absolute nothing.

It was some time later before "I" came back and it took a while for me to be able to move my body again and to be able to speak. I had no idea what had happened but I knew with absolute certainty that I would never, ever drink again. The only reference I had for making sense of what had happened was that this had been done by God.

In the months that followed this, I sat for hours on end just in silence and staring into space. I knew what was happening was spiritual but I didn't understand the mechanics of it and it wasn't until I came across Tolle's book The Power of Now and read his experience that I understood what had happened with my mind; my mind, whose function is to problem solve, had been beaten by a problem it couldn't solve and in that had surrendered. In that surrender of the mind, I transcended it. The veil got lifted and I got to go beyond the mind.



I've heard that addictions are not to be seen as something to get rid of on this path.
Well I guess there are several ways of seeing this probably, but it sure is hard to grasp when you picture that with drugs that will destroy the body fast like crocodile or sniffing glue.

I was an alcoholic before I picked up my first drink. My primary addiction was food....and that is a whole another story in itself but suffice to say that since that day, I have not drunk alcohol nor have I eaten the vast majority of foods.

There is just no desire for it any more but that was not the end of the addictions.

The same force which had compelled me to addictive behaviour all my life got transferred onto the spiritual search. The seeking spiritually became intense. Looking back now, with hindsight, I see that the alcohol addiction was exactly the same as the spiritual seeking. It was all one movement designed to take me home.

When I said a few posts ago that I have no choice about what is happening right now, that this river which is rushing back to its source and will sweep "me" out of the way, I am talking about the same movement which has been here all this life, which early on had manifested into addictions. These days it is just seen as that which is taking back me to Source and it is not resisted.

So in that, I can see why addictions play an important role in this path and are not something to "be got rid of" - it's all Grace......but also having said, that bear in mind that most people with addictions to substances will die from their addictions.






There is someone here on the forum who uses the path of enlightenment and NLP at the same time. He says it has done wonders for himself and loved ones of his.
In some way this seems weird to me, because this path is all about letting go of wanting to change the experience isn't it?

I've come to the conclusion in all of this that no one is doing anything wrong! We are all doing exactly what we need to be doing at that time but that doesn't necessarily mean that we should all be doing what someone else is doing.

I have also learned that definitions of what enlightenment is about vary so sometimes we may be comparing apples and oranges.

For me the path to enlightenment is about going beyond the mind so any technique which involves the mind is not going to do that. The mind in some people can be eased and comforted and tamed into behaving in a more agreeable way but that's not what we discuss in this thread.






Though I must admit that I don't like having in the house still, which tells me there are still hooks in it.

Did you want to quit drinking or be cured off an addiction to it? I don't see how not wanting alcohol in the house is a problem. I don't have alcohol in my house and that does not make me any less sober than someone who has quit and can have it in the house.


On the subject of addictions, although I do believe they are all spiritual seeking at the heart of them, there is a physical component to them. For example an alcoholic's body physically reacts differently to alcohol to a normal drinker and it's important to understand this.

I see recovery from addiction as having a spiritual solution as also avoiding the physical reaction in the body by not consuming the substance. So I see no reason to test the physical by having the substance around to see if you have been cured.

Setting up a picnic on the side of a volcano is not the wisest move ;)



I have a personality that gets addicted to many things very easily (watching tv, computer games, reading, sweets, alcohol, gambling to name a few from the past) and I am finding out more about it every day. how it works and how and why I use these addictions to flee from the now.
It's hard for me to understand why we must not seek to get rid of addictions that are damaging to us. I mean... I can see the logic in it, but when you put it to the extreme like I did with crocodile and glue sniffing.. does this logic still hold?
Because getting rid of the addiction is something you do with the mind and puts attention on the mind whereas the addiction is the Grace which is taking you away from your mind.

So instead of giving the mind more attention in getting rid of the addiction, bring Awareness to the addiction itself. Of course, to do this you need to understand the difference between mind and Awareness......but then you do, Waky. :)

Jeanette


This is a keeper (and I don't say that casually, having only filed perhaps two or three other posts since I've been here).

Deep bows to you, Sister, for this exceptional revelation!

[greybeard]

Science and Spirituality Earth Magnetism Human Body.

A David Sereda interview on Coast to Coast AM
Its in several parts but this is the first.
He talks of possible changes in DNA, raising of consciousness, Pole Shift.
Very positive.
There is a lot of information on this talk.
Chris

Part two


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5LZVGhyIg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5LZVGhyIg&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1pmgxeKgcM&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1pmgxeKgcM&feature=relmfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNOLFN1fexc&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNOLFN1fexc&feature=relmfu

[Eram]

When you handed me the radical insight about dealing with dark attachments that travel to our loved ones when we release them, I kind of suspected that you must have looked deep into the abyss at a certain stage of your life Jeanette.

Thank you for sharing that here.
The hairs on my arms and legs where standing up straight while reading your story.


My mind could not cope with this dilemma and just shut down. It was like a computer that crashes. It just stopped working. There was nothing, absolutely nothing going on.

One time... a few years ago... I went to the bathroom during a film me and my dad where watching in the cinema.
When I returned, I walked into the theatre and suddenly I doubted that I was in the right theatre and then panic and the need for control jumped in and before I knew it... everything went blanc. I didn't even know who I was, or where I was... I didn't know words even.
The moment didn't last long, because instead of staying relaxed, I reached for the control mechanisms and tried as hard as I could to get everything back into place. And it did, as did the thoughts.

Control neuroses, fear of failure, a short fuse and feeling powerless might be my cocktail for such a set up in the future... who knows.

In the mean time there is nothing more to do then focus, exercise and watch every move the mind makes like a hawk.

[greybeard]

This is from a book I wrote, unpublished--unedited.
Chris

Relationships


There is as saying “ Eventually I became so successful that my partner could afford to divorce me and took all the money”
How does that come about?
Men, some women too, tend to get fixated on “The Project” The project can take on many forms, it could be or a hobby or work or both.
The me is always reaching out for something in the future its goal orientated and looking for something to complete me to make me happy, to be some one. Its never happy in the present moment so rarely is the me content with what is.

There is the thought that when I find the right partner I will be fulfilled, she or he will make me happy. That’s an unreal expectation and besides if the source of your happiness is external to you, then in a very subtle way you are giving that outside source control over you through your emotions wants and needs. You meet the seemingly ideal partner you can tick all the boxes on your desire list. That called falling in love.

At the start you only have eyes for the other half, no time for projects, then after a while the projects start to beckon, the relationship starts to be routine, the aliveness, freshness, diminished, a pattern established.

When the realisation comes that love we feel for another is not actually dependent on the other but love that emerges within ourselves and is inherent within all human form then there is no sense of loss of identity if the relationship goes through a difficult patch.
There is no longer a feeling of being wronged to carrying the poor me story to anyone who will listen.

There can be a very strong love affair with the me story, “Look what happened to me” Our whole identity seems taken up with the story of what happened.
Looking in from the outside it can be seen that most relationships are dysfunctional but they survive.
Why?
Because there is pay value in that kind of a relationship.
The people involved in it would not see it or agree that they are getting something out of the constant bickering fighting making up cycle.
This is why.
There is the addiction to the adrenalin high from the argument, the opportunity to prove im right your wrong and if all else fails I might hit you. “Well he or she deserved it” is the justifying of it.

With every addiction there is a low after the high and of course its so unbearable to be in the low that the high is once more sought.
That might be through the seeking to make love after a fight.
The ego is very cunning and will go to great length to get its own way even to the point of seeming to apologizing, saying “im sorry dear it was my fault it wont happen again”

Of course after the high of the make up, the love making, then of course it all happens again, it could not be otherwise.
Life has got flat in the routine of it, no sense of being alive, of being me, no enemy to make me feel strong.
There is need of the adrenalin high and things have got kind off quiet, boring even. It’s a bit like the expression used by Nurses “Flat liners” that’s when the peaks and troughs on the heart monitor cease and all that’s left is a flat line, the patient is deceased.
So the cycle begins gain. The little me feels big and powerful when filled with adrenalin during the fight.
There is a strong egoic sense of identity in any drama.

Yes there are times when your spouse may not even like you far less love you. How do we best handle that situation?
By allowing it to be, that’s how.
There is enormous power for change in allowing.
Our partner has every right to express any emotion that she or he may have.
By accepting that right and allowing that emotion, freedom arises, for its ok not to be liked or loved for that matter.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The moment that we accept that, not everyone or anyone can love us or like us all of the time then we are free of the pain that all kinds of relationships can cause.
We are no longer dependent on the external to prove to us that we are lovable.
When this is known peace of mind follows, you are laid back, you are easy to be with, and on the level of form you become very attractive, not that that matters.
You are also happy to be with you no reaching out for the next moment “to make me happy” Happiness comes from within.

We have a preconceived notion of what the role of our spouse is and of course what our role in the relationship is too. If our strongest role models ie our parents had a good relationship then chances are good that we will too.
Men see themselves as the bread winners and their woman as the bread maker.
There are boundaries “You do that, this is what I do.”

We all need our partner to be there for us to listen fully, to be present.
The biggest thing you can do for another is to be fully present, particularly when you are with your partner, leaving your own agenda aside.
Couples rarely really listen intently to each other. When the relationship ceases to meet your need to be fulfilled as a person then an obsession with work or hobby might start to take up so much time that there is little space is left for your partner.
“Well at least I know who I am when I’m at work” How often have we heard people say that.
So quarrels arise, both feel that they are neglected.
The male feels that he deserves better treatment and after all dosent he work hard to support the family.
The female is not too concerned about the money her man makes only that she works hard in the house and he is never there to give a helping hand.
“Wouldn’t it be nice if he cooked the evening meal once and a while?” she says to her friends who are in a similar situation.
The good thing is that when we are open it becomes possible to see our partner and their actions and attitudes in an entirely different context. NLP calls this reframing.
We could say we picture it differently.
See the other person’s point of view as if we are them.

It is also said that the other reflects back, mirrors part of us. So if our partner has aspects to their personality that we are none to fond of.
Could it be that we have similar character traits that we deny?
Our partner may push our buttons and we then say things and do things that we regret or justify later.
“That’s not like me” may be a passing thought. Whatever arises come up to be recognised accepted and let go of.
Without the buttons being pressed this blessing could not happened. So in a way our partner is to be thanked for bringing this into our awareness.

You will know that you have made real spiritual progress when a button is pressed and there is no knee jerk reaction from you.
You are immune but not indifferent. It’s not a “I couldn’t care less what you say or do” attitude.
It’s a state of non-judgmental love.
The situation is as it is.
As this begins to emerge in you the amazing thing is that your partner begins to change, if they are ready for change.
Through total non judgmental acceptance of your partner and others the energy of love can bring about a raising of spiritual vibration and with that occurrence, their perspective changes, they see things including you in a different light.
Let “You’re not the person I married” be a compliment rather than an observation of decline.

The Divine can be brought into all aspects of your relationship including love making.
The path of Tantric is valid. It’s not within the scope of this book to go into that, there are many spiritual books on the subject but you have to be selective in what you buy.

Everything in this word from the plant realm to the human realm came into being through interaction between male and female of the species, God created it that way.
Having a partner who is on the same spiritual or similar path to yours is a blessing. Having one who is not is also a blessing, they will be better at pushing your buttons perhaps.

The most important relationship of course is your personal relationship with Source/God and that is not an easy one at times either.
There comes a moment when awareness of Divine Love happens, it is not really describable but you will know it. Then the spiritual search starts in earnest, it’s as though you have tasted amirit the wine of the gods and nothing else will do. Human love is wonderful and of course has its very important place in the scheme of things but it is rarely unconditional or completely fulfilling. We will wander off into unconditional love for a moment.

A friend, a woman spoke of her unconditional love for her son, it came to mind and mind loves a story.
What if there had been a mix up at the maternity ward soon after birth and by mistake her child was given to another and vice versa. What then if years latter the accident was discovered and her “real” son appeared into her life, what then.
I think the lady in the story would have been big enough to accept and love both “sons”.
Children all belong to God we are just the the channel through which they materialse in to form.
So yes we have responsibility for them but we don’t own them.

So what is unconditional love.
If there is any sense of ownership, attachment, mine me in there agenda then there is a condition to that love no matter how small its there therefore it is not unconditional.

A well known story told to the best of my memory. Two Indian squaws claimed this particular infant as their offspring. The council said, well take an arm each and pull the child towards you and the stronger of the two will win. The women started to pull and the child began to howl as though he was being physically torn apart with these women pulling in opposite directions. In moments one could stand the child’s pain no more and gave up the struggle and just let go.
The council members decided she must be the real mother as only such love could put the child before her desire to have him. Is that unconditional love? I don’t know but it comes pretty close. When you love another enough to let them go that’s an indicator of uncondional love. Sel-ish is the opposite because self is involved.

In the bible it says that God is a jealous God, what does that mean?
It may be that what God said to have said meant “Get your priorities right” put no one ahead of your relationship with God, beside you yes. An equal partner yes.

So, one challenge that can arrive related to and in the relationship with God.
Commonly referred to as the “Dark night of the Soul”
On finding God as an experience not second-hand, not completely describable, there is quite often a period of bliss, that may last moments or days, however when it, this feeling, goes there is a vacuum created, (this may no happen for some time) a great emptiness, a sadness, sense of great loss, grief.
These are only words but when it happens it is unbearable, you just want to be home with God.
This has to be overcome too and can take time. It may recur from time to time but it is a sign of growth, painful though it is.
A stepping stone if you will.
At this time it is good if you have a partner or friend capable of unconditional love and understanding.
You may be temporarily incapable of accepting or giving human love at this time but this too shall pass.

Something also that needs to be addressed is that having experienced the love of God then human love can/may seem pale and lacking by comparison.
All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.
Just be in the moment and whatever form love takes be happy for that.
Could be your pet showing even more affection than usual, they know.

[another bob]

This is from a book I wrote, unpublished--unedited.... All I can say is that all love is of God and to let go of comparing.

Thanks so much, Chris! I'd love to read more of your book, whenever you feel like posting! Putting our thoughts and experiences to paper is a great way of sharing the process of awakening in our lives, especially helpful for those at a distance who don't have the luxury of face-to-face relationship. Good job!

[greybeard]

Thanks for the kind words Bob.
I will post a bit at a time.
Chris

[greybeard]

A book by Chris (greybeard)

This is a book I wrote but never published, its unedited so it is as it is
comments will be welcome.
Chris

Page 1

The question “Who am I?” in various guises has plagued man since he learned to think. The essence of the answer is in the question. The answer is simply I.
I am the “One” without second without another. I can without fear of disagreement say “I exist”.
That is so simple it’s hard to take in, hard to accept.
It is not possible to completely understand through thought.
The problem began with thinking.
That sounds very philosophical.
Yet it is simple.
An animal know exactly what it is without knowing its called a dog cat or what ever label seems appropriate to us. The animal doesn’t need to know what type of animal it is and in a way neither do we.
The animal just knows what we have forgotten.
It is aware that it “is” without a CV (job description of any kind).
It just goes about its business living life to the full without a though of past or future in its head.
We can do that too.

The book sets out to explore that possibility

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The Book

When it came to mind to write this book I wondered what I could possibly say that has not been said so well by so many writers that I respect and have learned from.
There is nothing new, the Truth is eternal, unchanging. Everything in the book is therefore second hand, though I have had, new to me, insights in the writing of it.

Thousands of years ago the Truth was told by enlightened beings, Jesus the Buddha, Krishna, Mohamed and no doubt others. Religions were founded on these teachings and sometimes Truth got buried in translation or in the telling of it, words are so inadequate. The teachers rather than the teaching became worshiped.
Honor respect all but only God or Source if you prefer that word, is to be devoted to.
The Buddha said put no head above your own, Jesus said you will do this and even greater things, he was not claiming specialness or to be unique, he was pointing to, showing the way back home for all, through his own personal experience.
The core of the Truth is to be found in all religions. They all say Love God and your fellow man, surrender to the will of God

It occurred to me that in the early days on the spiritual path I had picked up many misunderstandings due in the main to my conditioning, my idea of the attributes and attitudes of a spiritual seeker, which was the identity I had formed of myself at that time, for example.
Non attachment meant to me that I had to avoid at, all cost, material things. No, not the case, later I learned I could have abundance, just not mind if this did not materialized, arrive in my life and if it did to welcome it, just not to mind if it dematerialized, disappeared.
Also the phrase “I make plans and God laughs” was taken to mean not to plan at all, “just a futile thing to do”.
No I misunderstood, what it simply means is that, I can plan and should do so, if that is my choice, but not to be concerned if I don’t get my way. The effort is my part, the end result is best left to God. No doubt God has a better end result in mind anyway.

Humor takes the edge off so called failure to achieve.

There was also the belief that I had to be holy, sit cross legged on every possible occasion, perhaps be celibate, impress others, with my spiritual knowledge or lack of it. In other words the ego was coming in the back door with the new identity of a spiritual seeker.

What has been written or said by anyone is not Truth, the moment something is put in to words it is a concept and therefore not the Truth. The words can only point to the truth and in this case it is my perception, my viewpoint of Truth. My wish is that the book will be helpful as a pointer to forming your own perceptive. Which of course the reader will let go of, when it has served its purpose.

Ultimately all belief systems concepts must go. First, though, there may be a path to take, a process to go through before the stage of letting go can successfully be attained.

So to the book.

If you are sitting comfortable it begins.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The Beginning


There is nothing in this world but atoms in movement even the table is composed of atoms in movement. Anything that moves and everything in this world is composed of atoms and without exception, is alive, living. That life is what we are. “ Consciousness/awareness”.

The absolute spiritual truth is, only God is. I am that I am.

We are all waves of the Divine ocean. Like the wave we appear to be an individual event we arise we subside back into Source, in truth we are a part of the Divine ocean not apart from That which is eternal.

There are two types of energy, manifest & un manifest. That which we are has manifest from the un manifest to take up temporary form which we identify with, has a name, certain characteristics, persona, a life span.

In order for the play of consciousness to take place in its present form we have an ego which is a separation device. There is the illusion of, me and a that, subject and object, in other words me and the other.

Of course in our perception it may appear that the other is the cause of our joy and misery. That’s the ego at work. The ego loves drama. In reality we are pure consciousness, the soul unaffected by the actors in the play. It appears in spiritual terms that the soul is evolving through perhaps many life times but in truth the soul is pristine untouched by the ups and downs that are part & parcel of this world.

One could say that conscious is evolving into its self. However anything that any spiritual teacher imparts is a concept and therefore can only point to the truth, a sign post if you will.

For some fortunate souls God begins to dissolve the ego from birth through His grace. Grace is not something that can be earned.
However we can do our part by working towards, preparing the ground so to speak.
Its not that God has a plan for us, as an individual entity, we have the freedom to align our selves with Divine will or otherwise, you could say there is a master plan which relates to the whole cosmos which obviously we are part of.
Its not that God wants us to suffer or causes suffering that is the province of the egoist mind. Shakespeare said “Nothing is good or bad till thinking makes it so.”
Because the egos last resort is special ness it will go any length to create that feeling of special ness even if creates massive problems in our life. Who would I be without my problems? Our favorite subject is me. “Do you know what happened to me”?
Well let me tell you. Then the “me story” will be told with great enthusiasm and drama. It might be a happy entertaining success story or a tale of woe with much hand wringing. We all love a story well told but basically they all have elements of fiction and that’s ok as long as you don’t take your own story too seriously.
It (the ego) can lead you into situations where you embark on a course of action, that in hind sight you can see that the end result was virtually inevitable. It seemed a good idea at the time, is a good way of looking at it.
Ill health follows neglect of the body. Relation ships go awry for many reasons but this can all be traced back to the ego.
Many commit financial suicide with the master card. The ego reaches out for the future, for the unaffordable. The present moment so boring, lets spice it up with a new “toy”.
As a male I can put my hand up to this statement. “Boys never grow up the toys just get more expensive”.
People take part in potentially dangerous pastimes, getting high from climbing a sheer rock face (the pun is intended) being just one example and at the level of form that may well be a grand thing to do. Life is for living. When in a tricky situation the mind becomes one pointed, we use the expression single minded, there is then clarity of thought, right action happens, the higher mind has saved the day.

There are many paradoxes in spiritual books, on the one hand one is responsible for ones own spiritual progress, on the other hand, our free will in situations, events we can say yes or no to, is severely limited by our conditioning, genes, karma, more on Karma later.

The actor in the play is free to express the words, portray the part in any way he chooses but must convey the essence of character as conceived by the creator of the play. Not much room for maneuver you may say.

[Jenci]

That's very good, thank you Chris. :)


Jeanette

[greybeard]

Some wise man said.
God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the witness of the play

Jesus said “Of my self I do nothing The Father within is the doer”
However, I must act as though I have complete free will.
In time as the spiritual evolution of the personal self occurs right action happens anyway.


Through surrender to God, Source no new karma is created.
The spiritual intention is to remind one self that with out God I am helpless.
If you think you are in complete control of your life try stopping breathing for a few minutes and see what happens

The ego would of course have it otherwise.

Edge God Out. The “little me” wants to be in control of life.
The ego is just self identifying with the me story in the head.
A translation of the word devil in the Bible could be the word ego.
The devil made me do it. How often have we heard that said?
Sin, another misunderstood concept, is just not coming up to the mark, not doing the best that we are capable of.

Nothing happens in isolation, so without the other waves of the ocean no thing can happen in this world.
The other waves are Divinity expressing itself in that unique and individual form.

The ego says. “Truly I am all that matters I am unique, special and always know best.
The ego is a separation device which says I am different from all else.
In simplicity the ego is a jumble of thoughts given value by buying into the story in the head.
I am this, I am that. Total identification with the story invariably results in an unhappy me and that’s the way the ego likes it to be.
Drama, Drama

In order to strengthen apparent uniqueness the ego is constantly looking for differences. Nothing the ego enjoys more than being right and by inference if I am right some other is wrong therefore I am superior and special.
It will go to great lengths to prove the other wrong; all wars have been fought over this.

On the personal level most relationships are at times a battle ground.
At a wedding the best man was heard to say in his speech “I was going to give the groom a present of this book, “How to gain the upper hand in marriage”, but my wife wouldn’t let me. Everyone but his wife laughed.

First the honeymoon period where all is almost a state of euphoria.
Hopes so high.
“ At last I have found the one to make me happy.” This can quickly deteriorate into. You said, you promised, you didn’t.
From the state of oneness, marital bliss, the closeness evaporates into various forms of separation. Why? Probably because expectations were not met, also the I’m right your wrong, syndrome begins.
The fallout, the kiss and make up.
Its all going according to the program.
The ego says play it again Sam.
The argument of today is very similar to the replay of the last disagreement and so it goes on till awareness of what is going on arises, then through this, the likelihood of change comes about.
There is no situation which enough love can’t solve. Awareness is love and in that awareness things change, solutions suggest themselves, personal agenda goes and everything is seen in a different light.

The ego developed as human beings evolved. In the early years it was a great asset, absolutely necessary to the survival of the human race. The basic need had to be met regarding food water procreation shelter. We had to have judgment in order to know what was edible inedible safe unsafe what suited what didn’t, duality was born, we eventually lost our connection with Source. So judgmental, so caught up in being something someone and the only way we could be something / someone was to judge our fellow beings as not equal to us, as somehow different. Woe betide you if you disagreed, people were killed, rape and pillage the norm in the early days and still going on in many places in the world.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Intelligence has evolved but one could say now we are cleverer at killing each other, the club has long been replaced by weapons of mass destruction. Insane! The only winner was the ego. We became spiritually asleep.
Jesus on the cross said as his last words “God forgive them for they know not what they do”. He could have added. They are spiritually asleep.

The good news is that the human race has come to a point in its evolution where many people are waking up, spiritually. Consciousness is rising, because The Totality, God wants that to happen.
The being who is fully connected, not separate, with Divine source in the state of enlightenment, can say with authority. I am the totality all of it.
That is the potential of every human being fully realized.
In India the enlightened sage is known as “the great enjoyer” He lives in a true state of freedom.
Is it possible to enlighten yourself?
Probably not but you can prepare for the grace of God and in the process make life a lot easier for oneself and others.
Krishna Murty an Indian sage said. Do you want to know my secret? Obviously his audience did. He said “I don’t mind what happens”
Similarly Jesus said “I have overcome the world”.
Overcoming of the world, “The peace that knows no understanding” comes through acceptance of what is.
Only acceptance of what arises now is necessary.
There is never a problem now. Challenges may arise but the ability to handle it also arises when we fully accept the “is ness” of it.
There is a beautiful saying. We never get sent more in one day than we can handle. Its true.

[another bob]

Some wise man said.
God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the witness of the play


http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/the-curtain-call/

:yo:

[greybeard]

Potential


All life forms come into being with potential that is unique to them with certain limitations & many advantages.
The chicken is not going to fly like an eagle.
The hen’s egg has the potential to become a chicken assuming it has the right environment, the mother hens warmth, to incubate the egg, being one of the major factors, for that event to happen.
The emerging chick has the potential to lay eggs become a mother or end up Kentucky fried.
The egg also has potential to end up on the breakfast table in a variety of ways, fried poached boiled. Whatever the end result the egg has fulfilled its potential.
Similarly human beings have there own unique personal potential along with the potential common to us all to find the answer to the question “Who am I” and that question and answer to that is the only thing that is ultimately important.

When we are born, we come into this world with a spiritual vibration, a starting point for this life time’s evolution of consciousness. However like the egg there may be certain limitations placed upon us, but it’s a great blessing to come into human form particularly at this time regardless of these.
For one thing we don’t arrive with an instruction book for our parents. So if our Mother (our first teacher) had good parents then the chance is, that will reflect in our confidence level, the way we interact with the world and many other things.
We arrive with the ability and potential to be sad, happy, angry considerate all the variety of emotions from not loving to loving. Not that real love is an emotion it’s more a way of being in the world.
Where we are born, DNA, genes, our culture, some would say our birth sign all these factors influence us greatly.
We become conditioned by schooling, events in our life. Coping mechanisms developed to see us through the day. Some people are fortunate and have a wide variety of ways of reacting to the ups and downs of life, others not so. Regardless the potential is within every one to evolve spiritually to grow to transcend.

The spiritual path is very practical.
There is amazing power and peace in the ability to surrender to what is, to what arises in this moment, the eternal moment, the present, the only moment there ever is. What ever arises “it is” and can’t be changed, however our reaction can be. There can be a knee jerk reaction which basically says “This shouldn’t be!” rapidly followed by action coming from our programming or right action coming out of acceptance of what is.

The vicissitudes of life are gifts sent to us so that we can exercise our spiritual muscle. Transcend whatever has materialized.
Time being we need the duality of this world. How otherwise could we learn to be compassionate without the misfortune of others? At some point in evolution of mankind we will be kind & loving without even being aware that we are.

Shakespeare said “Assume a virtue and it’s yours” so it is good to practice kindness to all life, including your own, no matter what.

It would seem we have the ability to attract into our lives what we give out. So it is practical to be generous kind loving. These action of them selves are the reward, the joy of giving, not looking for any return but that seems too materialized of its own accord. Like to like, one could say.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Life force

We all have an energy, a life force, so do volcanoes and all things in nature.
Life force is not to be confused with spiritual energy vibration though it is not separate from it. One may have a high life force and low spiritual resonance. Dictators would fit into that criteria.

Spiritual teachers will say that all is perfection in this class room called the world.
How can they justify such a statement when there is so much misery pain and suffering present on earth? Well they don’t condone it just accept that that is the way it is and take action where possible in line with their function in this world. A saying comes to mind. Your worst enemy is your best friend. What does that mean? Hitler could have said to have been the enemy of freedom.
Many were incarcerated in prison camps, millions lost their life through his megalomania. He was extremely charismatic, he deluded his country men (and probably himself) into thinking war was in the best interest of his country. A classic example of high energy life force used for negative purpose. Yet through that horrendous war many on both sides had and took the opportunity to excel in deeds of bravery compassion and love for their fellow man. Many rose to the occasion and gave their lives for a higher purpose in pursuit of lasting peace. Many turned to God who would not have otherwise done so. Stories of people in the Concentration camps giving their last piece of bread to some one less fortunate than themselves abound.

Through the prayers of many a lifting of global spiritual energy came about. Science forced to come up with even more powerful weapons of destruction created technology that moved on the development of many a peace time aid to travel and comfort in the home. Engines for airplanes improved dramatically, car and boat design. Nuclear power came about, maybe that is a mixed blessing, who knows There were many benefits from the war, downside too.

Nature appears to be violent at times too but is that necessarily so?
The volcano long asleep stirs into activity, much devastation occurs. Orange groves decimated. Yet when all has settled new growth appears and the oranges have a renewed fertile environment in which to flourish. That is just the cycle of life. The word God could stand for. Generation. Order.
Dissolution.

Forrest fires occur as a result of long dry spells it would now seem that an occasional forest fire is necessary for the well being of the forest long term.
So, coming back to human life force. Life force is related to our physical, emotional mental health and so it is important to maintain your health to the best of your ability.
Taking vitamins, good organic food, exercise play a part in our well being.

Martial arts came about from the understanding of energy forces which originally were harnessed to ward of the demon of ill health. Tai Chi and Qui Gong practice flourishes to this day. There are hospital in China dedicated solely to Medical Qui Gong. Patients are given movements to perform that release stagnant energy from the body and to increase the flow of health giving energy to the part of the body that is not functioning as it should. Bio energy practioners and exponents of other therapies in the West are trained to release energy blockages so that the immune system, which is amazing, can restore good health.

Why does healing not work for all?

The intention of any healer using any healing modality and any Dr is to promote good health.
It may be that there is not a potential within that person for healing at that time, this may well change. There is always something positive to be found in even the direst situation that can be learned from.

It is possible that the patient is in acceptance of the illness after all he or she gets a lot of attention from others as a result of this. Their partner may be suffering in different way. Ill people can be very demanding expecting everything to be done for them even things that they could do for themselves. Co dependency is one label for it. There are many situations where a partner relative or friend runs themselves ragged looking after the not so well one. In extreme cases the partner gives up and dies, not that we actually have a choice over the time of death, its set at birth, there is then a miraculous recovery of the former invalid. Of course that is not always the case there are many variations on the theme.

Helen Keller comes to mind. Hopelessly handicapped, she grew in to an example for us all.

Nelson Mandela ( is a Mandela prayer wheel/) for other reasons became an example. What could be more dehabilitating than to spend years in solitary confinement yet he survived that and on release there was no bitterness expressed, only words of love. He arose to become the first Negro to become Prime Minister in his homeland an extremely unlikely event yet it happened. Why or how? Many forces came into play. Destiny his spiritual vibration, life force, Divine will.

Stephen Hawkins is another amazing example, severely handicapped, incapable of normal speech, in spite of that or partly because of that he has become one of the worlds leading physicists.

Many unknown to us have triumphed over illness to become all that they could be.
Every time we meet an “other” we are either adding to their energy or detracting from it. People who can see auras confirm this. There are people who uplift us people who deflate us and we do the same to them. There are individuals who are energy vampires, I don’t mean that literally, they don’t mean to be they just are.

A story.
John goes out this day he is feeling ok.
He meets Fred who says are you feeling ok? You look a little tired.
John heads on and bumps into Lucy who he hasn’t seen for a while. My word you aged since I saw you last are her very first words. Time passes and our friend John walks on a little slower perhaps a bit more stooped. Further on there is an encounter with Joe who says “my word you don’t look well, should you be out” John heads for home shuffling along, just before his door he sees Andy who greets him with. John you are looking great you must tell me the secret of your good health. John instantly perks up. Need I say more. We all know people who have High energy life force, who lift us, keep their company where ever possible.

We all have periods where we are a bit tired then we are prone to and susceptible to negative energy. Its best to accept that yes it is so I m tired and ensure that proper rest is taken. There are life cycles where we are full of energy and get a lot done and as part of that cycle we have to replenish our energy, if we don’t take time to do that the you could say we are running on empty.

Its well to be aware of the power of TV and to be selective about what is watched. People will say “oh Im not really affected by what I watch”, well companies spend millions on television advertising. Would they do that if it wasn’t effective in boosting sales? Of course not.

[greybeard]

The mind


The practical mind
The emotional mind
The Higher mind.

It is helpful to set spiritual intention to aspire to Higher mind which is connected to source. One could perhaps say that Higher mind is one with the Holy Spirit.

The practical mind as the name implies takes to do with tasks that we carry out. It is a functional aspect of the total mind, not separate from but part of and can be influenced by either the emotional mind or the Higher mind but not both at the same moment. We have the choice.
A simple illustration.

A singer/musician practises at home, gets his part off at least to an acceptable level, he then combines this part with other musicians in his group. So far so good!
Then together they play to an audience, again its going well. However in the interval someone says. Do you know who is in the audience? That famous record producer Mr X, he could do wonders for your career. All of a sudden the emotional mind, the ego, is in there. The present moment is lost, dreams hopes and fears for the future arise, remembered disasters from the past flood in, your mothers words, friends comments mainly negative i.e. what makes you think you can be a star? Etc. You’ve lost the place.
Back on stage it may be that these thoughts have affected the practical mind in its musician function or it may be that the Higher mind clicks in and you play beyond your normal performance. Athletes and others call this the zone. Everything seems to be happening of its own accord beautifully.

By the way playing with feeling is not as such an emotion, ( emotion tends to be reaction to something external) its being so aware so present so totally in the moment that there is a oneness with the music, fellow musicians the audience, it is almost as though the instrument is playing one self. Joy arises from within.

So the practical mind is essential to functioning in the world, it doesn’t really require much thought to carry out well practised acts. The physical part of driving a car is practically automatic, though in order to be accident free a degree to presence is required, if your thinking emotionally about what’s wrong with your love life and trying to drive that’s a recipe for disaster.

Of course there is a place for feeling otherwise there would be no compassion no understanding of the others situation. Buying into emotion however is never helpful and prevents right action in response to what is taking place.

A ski instructor friend told me of this incident.
When he was on the slopes he witnessed an accident. A young lady had taken a tumble and cut her face, which was bleeding profusely. By the time he got there a group of well meaning friends had crowded round, some what emotional about the situation. Concern was expressed about possible scaring of a beautiful face. Brandy was produced from hip flask and a friend of the young lady attempted to administer this cure all. My fiend was straight in there with a handful of snow to the ladies face, a cold compress. That stopped the bleeding rapidly. Brandy imbibed would have made the blood flow more freely.
The right action had occurred.

It may be helpful to understand how the mind works.
It is very like the hard drive of a computer all kinds of programs can be added or deleted. We are not the mind though.
It’s a useful tool a good servant but a bad master.

Anyway the mind is programmable.

When we are born we have an operating system just like the computer, its fairly basic until software is added. The main difference is that programs we use regularly develop pathways to the operating system i.e. our way of conducting ourselves in the world, what ever get us through the day. For example when a situation occurs, the mind in a mille second analyses it decides upon our reaction to it then acts and it is all out with our consciousness.
For example when driving you may find that all of a sudden you are braking then there is the realization that some one has stepped off the pavement in front of you. Of course you will take credit for saving that persons life but if you really think about it there was a reflex action so fast you didn’t have time to think about it. There wasn’t enough time to consult you before taking action. In these situations it seems that time slows down but I suspect there is that impression because the mind has actually speeded up due to higher mind taking over.

So back to the pathways. They are formed and made wider by what we think about regularly. The widest path relative to what occurred would be the route used by the subconscious in any given situation. Its like a massive filing system. Hunger will for example trigger a search for the food file, which holds all preferences likes and dislikes relating to food, then there is an external search to see what the fridge holds, next back and forward from internal to external till a choice is made consciously. There is a lot more to it than that as all files are interconnected and many may be consulted before a decision is made.

There is an expression “You only get one chance to make a first impression” that is very true, first impressions count, they dictate our future relationship through that first interaction.

Be cause we live in a judgmental dualistic world we are being constantly judged and judging in very subtle ways. The bible advises “ Judgement is mine sayeth the Lord” It doesn’t mean He is going to judge you, just that you are not to judge. Let him without sin cast the first stone is another saying. Yet this subtle judging is very deeply ingrained in the human psyche. Human beings love gossip, the more drama in a situation the better, that’s why soap operas are so popular. “I would never have done that” is a mental position. If we were in the same situation, with that
persons life history, chances are we would have acted similarly.

As a child we are subtly judged continuously, our performance being monitored on all occasions under the umbrella of guiding, looking after.
When a child is walking along a narrow wall the parents fear may prompt the shout “watch out or you will fall”. The child, who was gaining in confidence now falters is distracted and may well fall. It is help full to know that the mind screens out some language and the child may only hear. “You will fall” which then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy” Which then is reinforced in the childs mind by the parent commenting “I warned you”
There is a better way always. The parent could have said. “Your doing great. keep focused on one step at a time”
Children need positive guidance.

Many a celebrity has been shot to great heights through public acclaim, almost to the point of worship, then what. The same star is shot down through innuendo in the press regardless of whether it is true half true or falacious. It may be true. Then there is the court case, suing the paper for deformation of character. The public take sides and are greatly interested in seeing their point of view prove to be right. When a verdict is reached the response is “I was right I told you so.” Im superior to you”. Its all so subtle. we are unaware that it is happening, its so normal.
When the verdict opposes our point of view. The response may be denial. The point of view is upheld and justified. The ego cant be wrong.
The ego is delighted either way as drama ensues.

The mind and each thought can be very powerful if we allow it to be so.
Mind is a powerful usefull servant but a bad master.
It is helpful to choose that which has a higher purpose without personal agenda, where possible.

If a person continually thinks in terms of lack then the lack program pops up and you can be sure that lack will manifest. The Americans have a saying “Garbage in garbage out” and so it is, in that persons life, unfortunately.
You can also be sure that situations will arise in their life that are beneficial and have the seeds of abundance, but chances are that the negative person will not notice or even be aware of these possibilities for advancement. Even if they are conscious of this opportunity they may talk themselves out of action as the fear programme runs alongside the lack program. Many programs run concordant, all taking a person under autopilot to a destination that may not be desired. However autopilot can be reset.

On the other hand the positive person is running an entirely different program and their internal talk is in terms of what can be done to enhance their life. They will see every opportunity to do this and will only see problems as challenges.
When we know the way the mind works we can choose which program to run be it positive or negative. Without this simple knowledge we are powerless and run by the program rather than the other way about.
We all have the same hard drive and operating system in the brain, though some may have more capacity for storing information.

So there is a program for everything we do in this life including the spiritual search. The more often we turn our mind to the search for spiritual truth the more the right brain comes into play, our higher self begins to run our life and we may begin to experience the Kundalini energy moving up our spine (Kundalini is too vast a subject to cover here) you cant make that happen, its through the grace of God. “Divine madness” may occur, a magnificent obsession with finding the Truth. Ones life may become devoted to that, though at some point in time when the pupil has advanced enough the teacher will advise give up the books, give up the search, you already have everything you need, the truth is within, just let go, let God, just be.


TO REDUCE THINKING
*
Don’t get into dialogue with your mind.* You are not your mind.* Let it do what it wants, but it can’t talk to itself.* Don’t answer it back.* It will diminish.* The silence will expand.* Even the volume of the voice in the head will lessen to a background sound you are hardly aware of.* At first it will clamour for attention – then give up.* Will only take a few days before you notice a difference

[greybeard]

Re: A book by Chris

Belief Systems

A belief system is anything that you identify with and buy into.
Cultures have there own prevalent belief system.
Anything that you have a belief in has a habit of manifesting, the expression “a self fulfilling prophecy” sums it up nicely.

Belief systems are deeply ingrained as from the moment of birth we are being indoctrinated into the beliefs of our culture.
We also have a strong desire to know who we are and self labeling takes many forms.

I am a musician can be stated proudly. No, that’s not who I am that’s a function in my life, a function to be respected.
I m a Scotsman, an even stronger identity, no that’s the country of birth.
My birth sign is Scorpio. That’s true in this case but still not who or more accurately what I am. I am pure spirit, ultimately the soul not male or female.

Our belief dictates how we react to situations.
If X football team wins and I support Y then there is despondency, its as though I am that football team. If X wins then I am champion of the world. We are controlled by outside influences until we realize what is going on, till we wake up consciously. We are not even aware that this is happening till we begin to realise basic spiritual truths.
There is great enjoyment out of being a football supporter but not to take it seriously.
The positive emotions are within, the game is only a catalyst to bring them into awareness.
We can have any emotion we wish without the “game”. We can choose to be happy, we can overcome the world.
It takes time as all belief systems are very deep rooted. It is not a question of lying to yourself that you are happy when you are obviously going along with a face that is tripping you. Nobody is fooled. No, its much deeper than that. It comes about through turning over to God every negative emotion when it arises and thanking him for positive thoughts and feelings when they surface. You are what you think about on the level of form. Shakespeare said “Assume a virtue and its yours” Time is required to reinforce that.

Again be aware that a negative belief system is being replaced with a positive, I cant! becomes I can!.
Eventually all belief systems must be released but only when that is ready to happen.
“Its just like me to -” followed by a positive affirmation is helpful.

Fear is a belief system that limits so many, been there done it.


We took our young son at the age of 4 to be inoculated. The female Dr was extremely good and convincing. Our son saw the needle and syringe and said. “No thank you I had that before I didn’t like it im not having that now.” That was the end of the story. He obviously had never read a positive thinking book but I was in awe of the quiet, polite assertiveness and confidence in one so young.
We lost his older brother Michael in a supermarket when he was approximately the same age. One moment he was there the next he was gone, nowhere to be seen.
A few minute later and it seemed an age, he re appeared.
We started to remonstrate with him.
His reply was “I knew where I was even if you didn’t, no need to worry about me.” Children can teach us so much if we are open to listen.

Our conditioning progressively masks who we truly are from the moment of birth. That’s why Jesus said “You must be as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven”

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Acceptance

I don’t much like writing about my self however this true story may be helpful as a pointer.

Some years back a friend recommended that I read “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle.
By the way I first refused to read it as I in my ego was only interested in the teachings of Indian enlightened masters at that time.
That book together with "Power versus Force" by Dr David Hawkins has made an immense difference to my life and the lives of many. (Dr David Hawkins work came some years later)

I heard that Eckhart was giving a talk in London at St James Church. I talked my friend Anne into going with me.
I knew it would not be easy for Anne as there was an incident in her life when as child her hip was badly damaged and later a car accident which made walking any great distance painful and difficult, she had also suffered from ME which had dented her confidence somewhat.

I go in touch early on by email with Steve who was co-ordinating the event. I explained Anne’s difficulties. He assured me that there would be plenty of spare seating space, St James’s is large. There was some further e mailing to get directions etc. A few weeks before the event there was an e mail from Steve which basically said get down here early, we have had an amazing response, people are coming from all over the world to hear him speak.
We got down there in plenty of time, approximately two hours before Eckhart was due to speak we were in the already forming que, about fifty folk ahead of us. Eventually the doors opened.
People rushed past us and we ended up in a pew with a massive pillar in front of us, we could hardly see the stage. There was a moment of acceptance then a higher thought, something can be done about this. I waylaid one of the over pressed helpers, explained the present situation and that I had been in touch with Steve by e mail. He said “oh there is Steve” and grabbed his attention.
Steve was great. He said “wait a moment” In no time we were sitting out front of everyone in two plastic chairs. Eckhart came out and was introduced. He looked about at the large audience and was silent for quite some time. In my ignorance I thought “Poor man he has chickened out” but no that is his customary way of being. Then he requested a few volunteers from the audience I helped Anne up on stage then I returned to my seat. He asked the volunteers each to say a few words for world peace to the seated audience.

He lit a candle and gave it to Anne, she faced the audience and without a qualm said a few beautiful words then came and sat with me, then promptly fainted. Thankfully she recovered quickly and we were awestruck by what came through Eckhart.
Later we had a book signed by him and Anne suggested that he came to Scotland to give a talk. He asked his partner Kim English to take a note of that, which she did.

There is a sequel to that.

Some time later Eckhart did come to The Findhorn Foundation in Scotland for a two day event, we went to see him.
Anne wanted to stay on another day, having fallen in love with Findhorn, so we had to go to a B&B, the foundation could only accommodate us the two days of the talk. To our surprise it was the B&B that Eckhart Tolle and Kim English were staying in.
They came down to breakfast the next morning and we were very fortunate to spend time with them.
All of that came from first accepting “what is” then taking action.
However I cant claim that we made anything happen, it just did.
We also went to see him in Ireland.

[Jenci]

Some years back a friend recommended that I read “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle.
By the way I first refused to read it as I in my ego was only interested in the teachings of Indian enlightened masters at that time.


That's very honest of you, Chris. And I am sure you are not the only one. Eventually all beliefs, as you say, have to go.

As the pressure on humanity is increasing and the pain is getting stronger, more and more people are awakening spontaneously. Eckhart was one of them and his teachings have been very well received; there is something very natural and spacious about them.

Having said that many people will pick up his teachings and will not awaken but the techniques he recommends will promote a better way of life for them. It's all good.


This was posted earlier today, Eckhart talking about his spontaneous awakening, it's worthy of a second post here, I think.
Jeanette



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrsySWJgKfo&feature=player_embedded#!

[greybeard]

Re: A book by Chris

The teacher

Life is the main teacher.
Life happens for us not to us, there can be many lessons in a day.
One of the definitions of madness is “Doing the same thing and expecting different results” Its not a question of trying harder just realizing there is different way of looking at things, we change our perception and a better action suggests itself.

We are an evolutionary species so it is natural to want to better oneself in all areas of our life, to learn more.
Here we are mainly concerned with consciousness and as the individual consciousness rises, so does the collective.

President Kennedy said “A rising tide lifts all boats”
So endeavoring to raise ones own spiritual vibration is, a very worthwhile undertaking, personally life gets easier or appears to as our perception changes and the mind becomes quieter.
As we become easier with the world our nearest and dearest benefit too, there is less friction in relationships as it is no longer necessary to be right, to hold to a position, to have an agenda.
Self seeking comes to an end. Open mindedness is the norm. Unconditional love arises from within.

The saying is “When the pupil is ready the teacher will arrive”

One classic story.
A man who had been on the path for some time heard of the location of an enlightened master and was eager to acquire knowledge from him.
Eventually he arrived at the abode of the Sage.
He was offered tea and as the master poured it, the erstwhile student launched forth, trying to impress the master with everything he had learned so far. The master kept pouring the tea, the cup was running over.
The man became aware of this and said “ Master the cup is full and cant hold any more”.
The sage said words to the effect. When the cup is empty it is ready to be filled, likewise the student”

Is it helpful to have an enlightened teacher to guide you on the spiritual path? Yes
What does the sage give you? No-thing, only unconditional love.
The spiritual teaching is virtually the opposite of conventional teaching
Normally a teacher imparts knowledge, things to be learned and yes there is a place for learning new things. The function that you have in this life is to be respected and honored.

The sage assists you to remove all that is not the true you.
He points to the Truth which you are.

The Buddha taught Neity Neity. Not this not this. The path of negation.
It’s almost as though you remember that which you are already.
Nothing need be added. Nothing is added only removed.

An illustration.
A famous sculptor was asked how he created a beautiful female statuette from a block of marble. His simple answer was. I chip away everything that is not feminine.

The bona-fide Spiritual teacher has certain trade marks as follows.

1 He is not looking for disciples, not to confuse the teaching with the teacher. Respect and honor the teacher but only God is deserving of your devotion.
2 He is there to serve you not the other way around.
3 He is not looking to make a living from teaching, though that may happen.
4 There is no initiation, no oath, to be taken, no swearing of allegiance, no secret knowledge to be bought. The student is free in every respect. There is nothing in the teaching that suggests specialness, elitism. All are one.
5 There is humility in the true teacher.
6 He has no needs wants or desires to be met by you.
7 He enjoys fully what life brings him in the moment, when its gone its gone.
8 There is no attempt or need to convince control or otherwise mold the student.
The Truth has an authority of its own.
9 If he doesn’t know the answer to your question he will say “I don’t know”

Enlightened teachers are few in number on the planet so if the opportunity to sit in the presence of one arises seize it with both hands.
Why?
As said earlier we all have a unique spiritual vibration and that vibration can be raised by sitting in the presence of a sage.
It’s a bit like rubbing a magnet against a piece of metal, the non magnetized becomes magnetized though it may not be as strong a magnet as the original.
The energy of such a teacher attaches itself to your aura.

If its not possible to sit in the presence of one such teacher don’t worry there are books DVDs, CDs tapes of their work which also carry a high vibration which will raise your consciousness with repeated exposure to the material.
I have found the teachings of Dr David Hawkins and Eckhart Tolle to be particularly inspiring and helpful.

There are many good teachers who are on the path to enlightenment, my preferred path is Devotional non duality.
To me Devotionally non duality means being only devoted to God whilst honoring all of God’ creation and the progressive realization that there is only one life expressed through us. Not two only One.
One without a second
A good teacher will have or aspire to have at least some of the attributes of an enlightened master.
However a book may be all that’s available to you and that’s ok as the book carries the energy of the writer.

At this time good books abound. At one time a spiritual book would sell a few thousand copies. The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle reached no 1 on the New York Times best seller list. The miracle is not that a spiritual book can sell so many copies but that so many of us are ready for such teaching.
Consciousness is rising the world is ready for change.
War is still the norm in many places but in the mind of many that is no longer acceptable.
It used to be that going to battle was seen as heroic, the knights going to the crusades for example.
Now it is seen as pointless and futile, the enemy of yesterday the friend of today.

Can we make peace happen, no, it is already here in the mind it just needs to be uncovered, that is the natural ego free state. Gandhi achieved the impossible for India without striking a single blow. Such is the power of enlightened thinking. Non resistance.

What can the individual do? Be ready and willing to let go of all positionality, belief systems, to let go of judgment. The moment an opinion is held dearly you can be sure of opposition. That opposition is empowered by our rigid stance.
When we are flexible in our thinking we are open to higher concepts. Its also ok to be wrong.

Karate and other martial arts are effective through using the others energy to win through. Non resistance to what is you may say is the answer. The moment a stance is taken up an equal power of opposition is created. Acceptance of what is is the answer. Non judgmental.
Shakespeare said. Nothing is right or wrong till thinking makes it so. Acceptance is not passive or condoning it is very powerful. When a situation is first accepted as isness then right action will flow. An attitude of “This shouldn’t be happening to me” is unhelpful, emotional mind arises accompanied by temper or frustration no doubt, what is needed is a cool mind, clear thinking so to speak. These are attributes of higher mind not the poor little me entity.

[another bob]

Greetings, Friends!

There has been some discussion in other threads regarding "Emptiness" (Sunyata), so I am submitting one good summation of the Buddhist understanding of emptiness that I recently came across here:

The chariot analogy for emptiness is pertinent.

Is the chariot the same as its parts or different?

If you say the chariot is the same as its parts, you should be able to disassemble the chariot and spread all its parts on the ground, and still have a chariot. Clearly this is not the case.

If it is different from the chariot, we should be able to have a chariot apart from chariot parts, yet this is not so.

What this means epistemologically is that "things" as we perceive them have only imputed existence (prajñapti-sat). That is they are only conventionally real. When we normally perceive things they appear to exist, but they "dissolve under analysis".

Ontologically emptiness is best understood as dependent origination where by virtue of all phenomena arising as a result of causes and conditions they are "empty" or "void" of a self-existence (svabhava).

In that light, you cannot say they do not exist at all, but on the other hand you cannot say they really exist either. Phenomena are all illusory and only conventionally existent. If you refute existence, non-existence (which is relative to existence) likewise becomes untenable and no view can be held either way.

The point of this is to halt grasping onto perceived "marks" (nimitta-grāha) which prompt afflictions (craving and anger), further initiating action (karma) and subsequently the maturated results such as sensation of pain and pleasure and physical existence (projecting karma directs the location of one's rebirth and completion karma the qualities of it). If nimitta-grāha is halted, liberation is attained. Ignorance (avidyā) is twofold: ignorance of results, which produces demeritorious formations (apuṇya-saṃskāra) and ignorance of reality (tattvārtha-avidyā). The former is not understanding the consequences of actions which lead to suffering and carrying out those actions. The latter is what fundamentally perpetuates one's saṃsāra. Halting nimitta-grāha is related to curing ignorance of reality.

However, for bodhisattvas one still voluntarily navigates through saṃsāra for the sake of beings. At higher levels realization of emptiness entails no more perception of "beings" as a result of no longer having defiled perceptions.

This is why you hear seemingly contradictory statements like "bodhisattvas liberating immeasurable beings without any beings being liberated".

When analysis of emptiness is turned on the self it is revealed that "self" or ātman is likewise illusory. Our attachments to an illusory reified identity of "I" leads to "mine" and all the subsequent mundane sufferings, including involuntary rebirth. However, this does not render the individual into some kind of non-existence. On the contrary, emptiness is the cradle of compassion. When the self is dissolved suchness (tathatā) is revealed and all beings, who likewise lack any substantial self, are embraced like a womb embracing the child. This is one aspect of the function of analysing emptiness.

This is perhaps best intellectually understood through simple analysis (yogic realization is another matter). If all phenomena arise due to causes and conditions which likewise arise due to infinite causes and conditions, the analysis finds no "ground" to settle on. There is no first cause because that would violate the observed laws of causality (i.e., everything arises due to causes and conditions). The curtain is pulled back and there is infinity. This also means that given that the past is infinite your rebirths have likewise been infinite, so all beings at some point have been your mother. With such a profound vision of time and space compassion is completely natural and not forced. You see all beings as your mother and treat them accordingly. This is one of the basic practices associated with emptiness analysis. At higher levels bodhisattvas do not perceive beings and hence do not perceive them as their mothers.

It is said that it is only a buddha which completely realizes emptiness. However, even at a basic level like understanding how your daily life is a result of immeasurable beings (the causes and conditions for your present life) can foster an appreciation and gratitude towards both insect and human alike (in our present day concern for the environment is likewise all the more pressing in this light). When attachment to personal identity fades the subsequent result is increased benevolence and compassion towards all beings, which is really quite beautiful. A buddha in a sense embraces all the universe and beings, there being no difference between "self" and "other", hence why beings are said to be "in the womb of the tathāgata".

As Buddhists we hopefully try to emulate that as best we can. It is a gradual multi-life process. This is why aspirations are so important -- they will hopefully mature and direct us towards buddhahood where we will realize emptiness perfectly and flawlessly.

~Huseng

[greybeard]

Re: A book by Chris

Karma & Destiny

What is Karma?
There many translations of this word and even more explanations.
For me it simply means action.
Many actions have been performed by us in this life and perhaps in previous lifetimes.
I don’t go there (previous incarnations) as there is perhaps more than enough to consider in this one.
In fact its not a good idea to apply criticism to past action. It seemed a good idea at the time, that’s seems to be a kind way of looking at it.
Be kind and forgiving to all including yourself.

Every action will have repercussions, to be clear that is not cause and effect. One person may to do something and there will be certain consequences another on performing a similar acts will find a different outcome occuring in their life.
That’s their personal karma, yours is different and related to the potential that is inherent in your spiritual vibration, raise your vibration and there is, for want of better way of putting it, a better outcome.
In reality there is no better outcome.
Life is the teacher and will bring about what ever is in your best interest for spiritual growth.
That may be a hard lesson.
For example those suffering from alcoholism have to hit “rock bottom” before they are ready and humble enough to admit they were powerless over alcohol and that a power greater than them selves could restore them to sanity. ( Step one of the twelve step pro-gramme of AA).
Others may have their own low point where enough is enough and the search for a peaceful mind begins. Even though at that point there may
be no realisation that the spiritual search has begun, it has. That is their destiny. It could not happen otherwise.

Destiny is not our past pushing us to a certain destination. No it’s the future beckoning. Our higher self knows what we truly are and is pulling us towards that realisation. That is our ultimate destination.
The longest journey can be from mind to spiritual heart.

We start the spiritual journey seeking That which we already are on the external level and this is necessary for most of us.
Eventually we find ourselves back home locating Truth within where it has always been, though some what elusive.
The destiny of every individual is enlightenment, for some it seems to take longer.
It would seem to be true that we are moving towards that destiny en-mass at this time. May that be so.



Spiritual Practise


Be devoted to God above all else then even if you are heading in the wrong direction so to speak all will ultimately be well.

Meditation as already mentioned is a must for those seriously committed to the spiritual path of enlightenment. You become literally single minded through it.
Probably most important practice is to remain centered in the eternal present moment. We are a thought based species at this time so it takes time to overcome that.
It is helpful to just sit and watch without internal dialogue (you cant be two places at once) your either watching totally absorbed in what you are viewing, taking it in, present not absent, or in your mind, you can choose where to have your awareness, nature, birds, animals, trees blowing in the wind water still or rippling.
Water resembles our true nature, there may be surface ripples, there may even be stormy waves but under the surface the water is always still, calm, peaceful.
Water when still is like a mirror it reflects a bird which flies over. The water is not changed or affected in any way it is just inherent within it to reflect.
The bird is not affected in any way either by its reflection appearing on the surface water, its nature is to fly.

Mantra is good also. Repeating the Om inside your head is most powerful. If you want to raise the vibration of a room in your home for example then do the Om out loud.

Om is reputed to be the primordial sound, the sound of the cosmos. Scientist reputably have measured the vibration of the cosmos and found the vibration to be the same as the Om sound. Don’t know if that’s true but it may well be so.

Because mantras are ancient when you chant one you are tapping into the energy of billions of repetitions since time immemorial. The word Mantra means “That which protects”


Prayer.

Herewith, a prayer that you may find helpful in starting the day.

I am born now from the womb of sleep
I am determined to carry out all tasks this day with you ever present before my minds eye.
Make my words thoughts and deeds sacred and pure
Let me not hurt anyone
Let no one hurt me guide me direct me this day.
Amen

Finishing the day with.

The burdens which I placed upon you this morning are now over.
It was You who made me walk and talk and think and act
I therefore place at your feet all my words thoughts and deeds
Receive me now I am coming home to you
Amen

The main purpose of this prayer is to avoid further karma. Both good and bad karma have consequences in line with your potential. Good karma may bring you back for another lifetime to enjoy the fruits of your endeavor, bad Karma may bring you back to face a difficult life.
When action is surrendered to God there is the humility to realize that ultimately nothing happens in isolation therefore you have not single handedly created the end result, others must also have been involved.
That is selfless service. No self no problem. No karma either.

Eventually it maybe be that the only prayer that appeals to you is

Beloved please show me how I may be of service to you.

Prayer is really for our benefit, God has not wants needs or desires.

It is good practice to bless food. Our ancestors knew the value of this.

At the end of a day it is good to have a positive inventory of what has transpired then a few moments expressing gratitude. It seems the more you express and have an attitude of gratitude the more you get to be grateful for.

Resolve to be kind to all life at all times no matter what.
Some times tough love may arise but it is the intention that is as always the important factor.

No is a perfectly acceptable word where appropriate. There should not be a personal agenda. There is the bench mark of unconditional love to be aspired to. The other is to be respected, however their actions may not be something which you condone, spiritual discernment arises.

The work book section of Course in Miracles is a very powerful tool with simple daily lessons, 365 in total. There are study groups throughout world where you can meet like minded souls and that is important.

Any twelve step program is extremely helpful to assist in the removal of character defects.

The steps which are common to and similar to any of the step programs are detailed below. I have substituted X in place of the addiction. X could refer to any problem deep rooted.

The 12 steps of( twelve step group/fellowship)

1 - We admitted that we were powerless over X – that our life had become un-manageable.
2 – Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3 – Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4 – Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being
the exact nature of our wrongs.
6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove these all these defects of character.
7 - Humbly asked him to remove our short comings.
8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became wiling to make amends.
9 – Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to so would injure them or others.
10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to those still suffering from X and to practise these principals in all our affairs.

At some point all spiritual practices should be let go of as a means to an end but may well continue for the joy of partaking of them.
To be absolutely clear though if you have any kind of addiction be it to alcohol or otherwise it is necessary to continue with the uplifting experience of going to the fellowship which is helping you to recover from the effects of that particular addiction.

A prayer common to the various twelve step groups is.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

It is well to be aware that as spiritual progress is made certain abilities may arrive.
Parking spaces materialize as if by magic.
An intuitive facility is strengthened
Clairvoyance and everything else beginning with clair may appear as a so called gift
States of bliss my come about.

Take care not to form an identity as a gifted such and such, you may be in earthly terms but it could be an obstacle to further progress.
The suggestion is not that you no longer use the gift but just be aware that it is not a gift personal to you in the respect that you don’t own it. It may of course go of its own accord. Then who would you be if you had formed an identity out of it,

[greybeard]

Re: A book by Chris


Surrender

Surrender to what to whom?
Only surrender to what arises in this moment is necessary.

There is a certain inescapable fact about what is, it is.
No amount of avoidance can alter the fact, there it is, in your face. Once there is a, yes there it is, the situation changes.
In Quantum physics it is stated that what ever is observed changes, the wave collapses, takes on a new form one could say.
The mere action of observing suggest you are separate from the observed.
You are the subject the other is the object.
With distancing yourself through observing you are no longer emotionally associated with the event.
You are not pulled more into the me story in the head.
Its as though we are in a cinema watching one frame at a time of a film the difference is that we can change the next frame before we witness it by our attitude to this frame.

Everything with form including thought comes from the un manifest/source.
Whilst we are in this world we are also not of it.
We are both manifest in form and yet not.
Spirit which is what we are is invisible.
Another way of looking at is we are both form and formless and yet neither.
So it is, as if, once we have accepted what is in form and in time, we go to the un manifest which is timeless and change or set the next frame of the film before it appears.
There is possibility that we can only select from a menu which is dictated by our vibration our personal potential which changes as we evolve spiritually.
This happens totally out with our Conscious awareness in a faction of a second and there it is, the next frame has arrived. We are in that respect like time travelers.
Don’t make a concept or belief system of this though, it cant be proved in this world. The explanation can only point.
This is a linear world, one thing after another appears then disappears in the eternal moment which is not linear.
Its as though there is a space time continuum,
The human brain organises the total film into what appears to be moment after moment for us to view
but we are sitting there unmoved occupying the same space in the timeless eternal moment. You can open the projector and there it is, the whole film exposed but you have no clue about the story portrayed in the film it has to be watched on the screen moment by moment to make sense of it, that’s life.
As said already we can, it seems, change the life story, the film is set.

We also surrender to God but which concept of God?

A softer way of putting surrender to God might be “hand over to God”

The God of ancient times was seen as a paranoid dictator, his will had to be done at all times or there would be plagues, famine. Human and animal sacrifice required to appease him. He would strike you down dead for no reason other than he felt like it.
Then we moved on or rather our concept of God changed. Now we believed in a God who might just smile on you if you did what you were told if not he would smite you dead or worse condemn you to eternal hell.

Then there were further changes of perception till we arrived at the point where we could envisage a God of pure unconditional love, no judgment day, just Love Love Love.

God has not changed one iota but our perception has radically.
Throughout time, there have been advanced souls, who experienced at first hand that love and testified to it.
Because of prevailing attitudes in those times many saintly beings were tortured, crucified, killed.

It was predicted that science would one day prove the existence of God well maybe it has unbeknown.
There is an energy field through out the cosmos which pervades everything from the smallest atom to the biggest planet.
Absolutely everywhere, there is nowhere that it is not. Certainly a bit like God.



Death

Death is a very unpopular subject.
We can talk about politics, sex, religion but death is rarely recognised as a fact of life apart from hopefully the rare occasion when we lose friend or family member.
Its extremely rare to see the body of some one who has departed.
We fear the unknown and death is virtually unknown to us in our culture un till there is personal experience of it.

The sages say that the moment of death is determined at birth so we have nothing to worry about, in a world of uncertainty that at least is a sure thing, a given, and even more important they reassure us that we are spirit not body.

My mother had a breast removed at the age of forty, through having a malignant lump there. Life expectancy after that operation at that time was not very high, however she was ninety five when she died.
I was fortunate enough to be able to spend time with her as death approached.
She became very calm and peace full, pain free as death approached.
I wasn’t with her at that moment arriving shortly after. When I walked in her room I knew my mother wasn’t there anymore. What was left some how didn’t look like her. Lifeless by comparison and in reality.

I only stayed a few moments, the nurse, I knew her well, seemed surprised. She said “thought you would have stayed longer, you and your mum were very close”. I just said. “”She’s not there. I held back the tears till I got home.

Grief is natural and necessary even when you know that there is in reality no death. Grief is really a sense of loss and that has its place, its not really about the deceased it’s about oneself, about the vacuum created by the other leaving. After a period of grieving life moves on and so it should.

When I was in my forties we had a small Residential Home for the Elderly and that was my first experience of seeing the deceased body. I had the greatest regard for the staff, we got fond of the people in our care then they upped and left us sometimes suddenly.

This is the most thought provoking story I can tell. I have changed names etc.

We had a sprightly lady come to stay with us for respite care. She booked in for three weeks having come from one of the islands to the north of Scotland. She went out shopping on her own and really was quite fit, not on medication of any kind.

I was doing a sleep over as part of the night staff when around about 3am Fiona woke me, she said J. has gone. Being half awake I said gone where? Fiona eyes to heaven said “departed” I roused myself and yes it was so. We got the Dr in as is necessary to verify such things. Then I was faced with the task of phoning the relatives, not an easy one. J had come to us for a holiday in perfect health, what could I say?

Eventually I plucked up courage, dreading it.

I got her nephew. “Oh yes we have been expecting your call”. He said.
“J knew she was going to die and made all the funeral arrangements, she didn’t want to be a nuisance to us so she came down to your place to die”. I was gob smacked.
So some people just know.

What happens after death?
I don’t know, its out with my experience, so far so good.
Jesus said “My Fathers House has many mansions” Could be that there are levels of energy, spiritual vibration, attractor fields in heaven and we are drawn to the mansion that our energy resonates with.

[Jenci]

Thanks Chris. You wrote that some time ago, I know. I wonder if you were writing now would it be different.

I know for myself, more is being revealed all the time to me.


Surrender and death on the same chapter......I wonder, any coincidence ;)

Jeanette

[greybeard]

Thanks Chris. You wrote that some time ago, I know. I wonder if you were writing now would it be different.

I know for myself, more is being revealed all the time to me.

Surrender and death on the same chapter......I wonder, any coincidence ;)

Jeanette

Think I would say "nothing" now --- The book would be "empty spaciousness". Laughing.
I know less now that I did then.
I await knowing no thing.
Its like because the sun shines brighter the clouds of thoughts dissipate.
Yes surrender and death happened in that order in the book.
One leads to another---- death of the me for the Self to be born or rather revealed.

I really appreciate the support and encouragement you freely give.

Much love
Chris

[Beren]

Wealthy are the precious souls
that thread upon the ways of old
ways of wonder and ways of gold
that buys peace ,joy , love.

Name I bear that no other will
and treasures I hold that are here still
unseen but seen causing great thrill
greybeard they call me, this is my will.


P.S.
That`s ad hoc one on the spot for you ye olde :)

[greybeard]

Re: A book by Chris


Miscellaneous thoughts

To be honest this was to be allocated to various chapters later

So what of the future of the human race? It has always been about prophecy.
The Bible is full of it. However it is not about fortunetelling or a future set in concrete, more about our inherent potential. Jesus may well have walked on water certainly the levitation of Catholic saints is well documented, Padre Pieo was known to bi-locate.
A nun in Germany lived on the host and communion wine. There are reputably people known as breatharians who survive on pranic energy.
Maybe the so called Indian rope trick is not a fable.

Every culture has stories of superhuman feats. Some Sages in India can manifest objects out of the thin air. What one can do, all can do, given the right circumstances.
It is know that we only use a small percentage of the human brain so what is the rest of it for?
We have all had peak experienced moments when we have been awestruck by a beautiful sunset or similar, the majesty of which almost takes our breath away, time stands still, for a moment or so thinking stops, we experience great wordless joy.
We are very much alive.
Is this state possible all of the time?
Those in a state of enlightenment say ,yes that is our natural state, unconditioned consciousness.

A young violinist virtuoso is reputed to had the out of body experience of all of a sudden finding himself at the back of the concert hall watching his own performance.
Out of body experiences are not the norm but well documented.

An Indian sage was with his devotees when he noticed a scorpion marooned by the incoming tide on a stone he reached out to lift it to safety it stung him he dropped it back on the stone he reached out for it again, his disciples feared for him, this time he was successful but the scorpion having bit him in the process again.
The disciples remonstrated with him.
His observation was.
It is in the nature of the scorpion to sting it is my nature to rescue it.

We are as we are it is as it is however our true self can be revealed as all that we are not surfaces and is released that is spiritual purification and sometimes that seems painful to the egoic mind at rate. It fears its own demise.
We never die or rather never experience our own death as the spirit leaves the body just prior to its demise.
The only true death that is experience is when the ego finally dissolves totally.

There is some identification with a personal me up to that point.
At that point it is as though a door to full enlightenment opens and an awareness arises as a knowingness, no words are spoken, walk straight ahead no matter what.
Only God walks through that door, all trace of personal identity is gone, the awareness of being one with God is present.

The path is clear having been trodden by all ascended masters it is as though their energy is willing you aiding you to take the final step.
It is well to know this now as we don’t know the day or the hour when Grace may fall on you.

David Hawkins has said that the potential for enlightenment is 1000 times greater now than at any time in the past.
Why?
Because it is Gods will for the human race otherwise it could not happen.

Enlightenment is not a personal event it is an event of cosmic proportion all are effected by it.
The spiritual ego likes to think its going to become an enlightened person no that is not so.
There is no me left.
The soul that appeared to be confined by believing it self to be the little me is now free of such a notion.
All that binds is a mere thought nothing else. Im not saying it is easy to be free of such an identification with thought, there is thousands if not millions of years of conditioning awaiting us as we take human form but others have before us therefore it is possible for us to do the same.
No time like the present.
A change is afoot. Destiny calls.


It is well to know that is perfectly normal to have periods of apparent stagnation, there may be a feeling of emptiness, of spiritual isolation, no one to discuss these feelings with at least no one who really has had similar experiences to share with you.
By this time friends and relatives may have given up on you fearing for your sanity, ( that only happens in rare cases, there is a lot of tolerance now for non religion spiritual beliefs).
Extreme tiredness may occur. There may even be the thought that God has deserted you.
A spiritual rock bottom may have been hit. Used to be called a dark night of the soul.
Actually all is well.
The body and mind may be going through a transformation process that takes time and energy.
Accept that yes there are those feelings / symptoms. In acceptance you step back not ignoring, just a little distance from them.
Know too that nothing remains constant, this too shall pass

We are affected by all kind of cycles and being on a spiritual path does not make us immune to lifes vicissitudes. Therfore the standard disclaimer comes into effect, consult a Dr if you feel the need.

Another famous story.

Two monks, who had vowed to have no physical contact with women, came upon a distraught female.
She was stranded on the river bank, needing to cross to the other side. She explained her predicament to the monks. The elder of the two swung her on to his back and forded the river. The two monks set off on their journey once more, after a while the younger could no longer contain him self. Father, he remonstrated, you broke your vow we should have left her on the other side you carried a female.
After a while the elder turned and said.
My son I only carried her across the river you have carried her many miles since.

Once a deed is done it is done with. That’s living in the present moment.

Yet another famous story.
In medieval times a small village was terrorized by a dragon.
It would try to snatch young maidens, set fire to haystacks and do all kinds of mischief that dragons do.
However there was a powerful wizard lived near by and always managed to save the village from the worst of the dragon’s deeds.
Eventually he grew old and was on his death bed, the villagers gathered at his abode they were deeply concerned, mainly it must be said as to what their fate would be at the hands of the dragon when the wizard’s soul departed for pastures new.
They voiced their concern. “Wizard, wizard do not leave us you cannot die, (as though he had any choice in the matter) how can we defend ourselves against such a powerful beast”?
The wizard with his dying breath said. “I think you will find that when I have gone the dragon will have too”
There is a lot to think about in that story.
Could be that the wizard is the ego.

A lovely story portraying good attitude follows.

A farmer near a small village had a horse stud stable along with his main occupation of growing vegetables.
One day his stallion made of into the hills.
The villagers visited him and commented on his loss. How will you manage John now your stallion has gone? What a disaster, you are so unlucky. “Maybe so” were his only words.
A few days later the stallion returned with five wild mares.
The villagers were quick to comment. “You are so lucky John”
“Maybe so” were his only words.
Shortly after that his son was thrown of one of the mares he was trying to break in and broke his leg.
The villagers were full of sympathy. How will you manage without your son John, you need him about the farm? That was so unlucky.
Maybe so were his only words.
A few weeks later war broke out and every young able bodied man was called up except Johns son.
You were so fortunate your son wasn’t called up the villagers commented.
“Maybe so” said John.

One question that comes up is.
Is God knowable?

The short answer is no.
One of the major religions had committees of learned priests investigating ancient writing for many years and came up with the answer “God is not knowable.”

A clever answer is God is everything and as an example if everything was colored white then there would be no difference no definition no way of discerning of knowing, so God became all of us to know Himself.
The Ocean became the waves to exist to stand out to be known.
Is that true? May be so!

If we look for answer in human terms we are wasting our time.
We will just end up putting God in a box.
That nice old man in the heavens with white hair a beard a stick and surrounded by Angels.
However it is possible to feel the presence of God, to know Love, to sense that, perhaps to be awe struck by a magnificent sunset.
There are many examples of what could be called a peak experience.

God is grander, more than the human mind is capable of knowing.

The Indians have a term for Enlightenment “God realisation” other wise known as self realisation, same thing.
When we know our true self we know God and when we know God we know ourselves.

The next question that presents itself is.
How do we know Gods will?

Short answer is we don’t.
Many a war has started in the mistaken belief that Gods will was being done.
However it can be done, knowing Gods will starts with prayer, the serious desire to be shown, to know how we may serve that which we call God.
Then synchronicity may happen and show the way.

A friend who had an addiction problem many years ago was praying to be shown Gods will recently.

This is what happened.

Through a series of events he ended back in his home city after years of being away. A short while after settling in he went for a walk down town and bumped into an old friend whom he hadn’t seen in years, a person he used to go to recovery meetings with.
They had coffee and it was suggested that he go back to meetings.
My friend considered this but decided no, he had managed fine without meetings and that particular fellowship had managed without him.
Well over the next few days he was again by “coincidence” to meet, separately, similar friends, acquaintances, from his past, again and again this happened. He could no longer ignore the feeling of being “spoken” to in this way by God, so he went to a meeting of that particular twelve step group and felt so much at home with kindred spirits that he still goes.

Was that’s Gods will expressing itself? Who knows!

The same friend told me that in the early days of his struggle against his addiction to alcohol he was advised to surrender the problem to his Higher Power, the God of his understanding.

He did so in this fashion.

He imagined putting his Alcoholism and all the character defects which were a part of his illness into a box, gift wrapping it, tying it up with pink ribbon ( pink is the color of love) then on his knees offering this “gift “ to God.

The release from the desire to drink was instant, however there were moments of willfulness through out the years when temptation arose; this was successfully combated with the thought. “I gave this to God as a present, I don’t ask for presents back” Simple but not easy.
He continued to go to the appropriate twelve step meetings for quite a few years after that.

Was it Gods will that he went back to the fellowship meetings?
May be so.
Who knows and does it matter?

The thought that “I am doing Gods will” is not helpful as it leads to a feeling of specialness. “I am so spiritual” then the next thought could well be, “Much more than others” and so on.
If God wills something it must happen, how could it be otherwise?

A young and wise lady friend said to me. “If you think God does not know what you are going to do next think again”. That is some statement.
Seems the best we can hope for (and that’s good) is to endeavor to align ourselves to Gods will.
How? By our spiritual intention,
If there is a willingness to serve God then guidance will arrive in some shape or form.
Doors will open doors will close so to speak.

Another question that comes up is.

People are not very patient with me, how can I get them to be more so?

Simple, be patient with their impatience, be patient with your impatience of their impatience.

The same applies to anything you want more of.
If you feel unloved for example give more of it to others.
It will come back, it has to, maybe not immediately, or coming from the person you have shown love to, but it will come back.
Every thought and action is a boomerang, it must return to sender.
That is how we create our own life situation.

Many say I fear rejection. What then is being rejected? If you look hard enough for rejection you will find it.
Choose therefore to look for the good things in life.
They will arise, be patient though. Past thoughts and actions have a certain momentum, that’s Karma, so it can take time for the new positive thoughts to manifest into your reality the good results.
Ah but it was said “nothing is good or bad till thinking makes its so.”
Exactly! Change the thoughts or better still just accept the isness of what has arisen
.
At a higher level it can be seen that everything that happens, happens for our good, for our personal evolution.
No spiritual strength can develop without the challenges to overcome, that is part and parcel of life.

[crested-duck]

Page 56-57 in aa book describes a event very similar to my own experience.....so much so that the page numbers are permanently ingrained in my brain...Rob

[greybeard]

Re A book by Chris

Manifesting


We manifest every moment of our life without realising it.
There is manifest energy and un- manifest energy. Everything that takes form in his world was first un- manifest energy that includes thought forms.

If we are using our lower unconscious negative egoic mind to manifest, and who would consciously, we bring into our lives all kinds of drama, upsets, heartbreak.
When Higher mind, right brain thinking is the norm then nothing but good can manifest into your life.
As consciousness rises, as awareness grows, this happens automatically.

There will be challenges there for your spiritual growth.
Strong men did not develop muscles through lifting feathers.
So if there are challenges, welcome them as though you invited them into your life.
They are there for you to transcend. Life would be somewhat boring without them anyway.

Affirmations are a helpful aid to manifest ting that which you wish for in your life but be aware that it is as though the mind thinks in pictures.
The mind cannot picture a non event. “I am a non smoker”. Has limited impact as the word “non” drops out and we are left with “I am a smoker” the exact opposite of intention.
“I am not over weight” the same result.
Better to affirm. “I am slim fit and healthy”

As mentioned earlier there are holy men who can manifest virtually anything they think of instantly. That brings responsibility as without spiritual discrimination havoc would be created.
We all appear to be able to manifest that which we think of but it takes longer for less attuned souls.
Who gave us the thought or desire in the first place to manifest something beneficial?
Probably our Higher self.
We can only manifest that which we have the personal potential to bring into our life.

An example.

A close friend who’s hobby was sailing felt he was getting too old to race sailing dinghy’s, beside he now had a family and the kind of boat he had was not suitable or safe to take youngsters out in.
A new cabin cruiser came on the market, it had all the attributes that were required. It was fast but stable so suitable for taking family out in.
A glossy brochure of the boat was accquired from the manufacturer.
The only problem was that it was well outside the price range affordable.
So he reckoned that in about three years there would be second hand at an affordable price.
A picture of the boat was put up on the bedroom wall with a written affirmation that the boat would be his on a specific month three years hence.
It was written present tense.
This boat is mine June the selected year.

Getting close to the month and year my friend stated looking in his favorite yachting magazine for secondhand boats of the desired type,
yes there was some but either too far away to make collection possible or delivery affordable and most were just a little too expensive.
One day in May of that year having given up on the idea that he could get a boat the thought came to get his preferred yachting magazine.
He headed down town but couldent get parked near his usual news agent, on the way home he saw another news agent with a parking space however they dident have his usual magazine some what crestfallen he headed out of the shop but on the rack he saw another magazine which featured boats and planes for sale, that was bought after some hesitation.
To his surprise when he go home in the center pages was an advert for the desired type of cabin cruiser at an affordable price and not too far away.
Even more amazing was that the advertiser had used a picture the same as he had up on the wall, that was the first time my fiend had seen a picture with an add for that type of boat.
The boat was bought.

There is a further fascinating part to the story.
The yacht broker explained that the boat was three years old but had never even been in the water it was an unwanted wedding anniversary present. There was a slight delay in delivery and would you believe it arrived on my friends wedding anniversary.
The sequel to the story is that my friend didn’t enjoy sailing the cruiser so much as racing boats and after a few years sold the boat and went back to the smaller but more exciting dinghies.

Every new situation brings about a change in limitations.
These limitations my be perfectly acceptable or not as the case may be.

It could be that you have manifest a new garment by phone, ordering from a small retailer, who’s catalogue you have. It has taken a few weeks to arrive. The wrapping is opened with great anticipation.
Oh it’s the wrong color, not what was ordered at all.
Frustration may arise.
The self talk may be along these lines.
“I don’t know what they were thinking about, I ordered this to wear at a special occasion, they have really let me down.
Whats the world coming to?
They just dident listen to me on the phone. I was very clear about the color I even told the lady at the other end why I wanted that specific colour. We had a lovley chat. How could she have got it wrong. Nobody really cares these days.
Then a note is found in the wrapping which says. Dear X I know how important it is that you get the garment in time for your special occasion, unfortunately the colour you requested was sold out by the time we came to pack it. I delayed as long as possible in the hope that replacment stock would arrive in time , it hasent so I took the iniative to send this colour of garment in the hope that it will suit you and the occasion. A discount has been applied due to these circumstances. It is really important to us that you are happy with the garment so if not please return. Yours etc.
All of a sudden a new context has arisen, the situation has changed.
You feel you are cared about. Then of course you can choose whether to return or keep the garment in a happier state of mind. You might even find on trying it on that the colour suits you better than the one you ordered.

So what changed? Only thoughts changed. The garment hasent changed color. Your thoughts, which are not you, can be changed regardless of the situation.
Its not the situation that cause the thoughts, rather the other way about.
As your view point changes it becomes a whole new ball game.
Different attitude will present different ways of dealing with the event.

Faced with any trying situation a useful thought is. “There may be a different way of looking at this”.
Creating space around the situation, distancing yourself, at least temporarily, opens the door for Higher mind to step in and come up with the better course of action to be taken.

Positive thinking is it the same as spiritual thinking?
Not quite but it does inspire one. In spire is derived from in spirit. It is possible to manifest purely through positive thinking affirmations pictures on the wall etc However the power of Higher self may be lacking.
Positive thinking tends to be rooted in getting what you want, that’s not necessarily selfish.
Spiritual thinking comes from a devotion to higher purpose and any manifestation that comes will be of benefit to others.

Great art while the creation of such is a joy to the painter it also brings immense pleasure to many.
Designing and the building of some of the great cathedrals in the world would no doubt have brought pleasure to all involved in the creating of it but they are small in number in comparison to the many who are awestruck at the magnificence of such holy places.
They have a high energy.
Designers of such places were well aware of ley lines, energy vortex and the like and were very discerning as to where these places of worship were sited.
There tends also to be a high energy field where two rivers meet.

There is energy in dance and obviously in music particularly high brow. Pun intended.

Incidentally my youngest (they are all artistically talented) took up the guitar to follow in his “own” footsteps and has great talent which he has worked hard for. Whilst I thoroughly enjoy playing with him I hankered after playing 60s music and from that thought materialized two situations.

I was in my home town though living away at that time. I walked into the local shop at the same moment, that’s syncronicity for you, as an old friend Andy and his wife Fiona.
We had played together many a year.
So once again I found my self playing with him though this time in his house rather that at gigs.
When I got back to Motherwell my friend Anne said someone has been trying to get in touch with you he will phone back, I cant remember his name.
A few days later this voice on the phone said “I bet you don’t know who this is” We had lost touch 35 years previous.”
It was John. He and I formed the first band we ever played in which lasted four years. “Would I like to be part of reforming the band”?
His wife Joyce had actually made the suggestion, he was getting near retirement and not the kind to let the grass grow under his feet.
He loves to say. “We are living the dream Chris”
As luck would have it he lived close at hand so regular practice began.
We located our friend and drummer Brian and his wife Tina in the south of England and our guitarist Denny in Inverness, who had had heart surgery and not up to playing with us unfortunately.
So the three of us practiced and had three live performances in front of people some of whom had heard us play 40 years previous.
Who said nostalgia aint what it used to be?
We got great enjoyment out of watching people up dancing, letting their hair down, just having a ball.
All the hard work of practice was worth while.
It was looking good. Then disaster struck. Brian was found to have cancer mercifully he died within weeks of an exploratory operation.

John and I still occasionally play together as a duo.

God is kind.

Its important to fill in the application form so to speak.
You can do the affirmations till you are blue in the face and all you will have is frustration, the goal will not have been realised. If it also takes effort on our part then it takes more effort.
God is reputed to have said if you will but take one hundred steps towards me then I will take a thousand towards you.
So you must play your part in the process, do what you think it takes, do what you can but leave the end result to God. If you dont realise the goal be kind to yourself, just accept that’s the way it is, then there is no frustration only positive feelings and even if you don’t get the desired end result, lessons will have been learned and you will be a better person as a result.

[greybeard]

Re: A book by Chris

Surrender

Surrender to what to whom?
Only surrender to what arises in this moment is necessary.
There is a certain inescapable fact about what is, it is.
No amount of avoidance can alter the fact, there it is, in your face.
Once there is a, yes there it is, the situation changes.

In Quantum physics it is stated that what ever is observed changes, the wave collapses, takes on a form one could say.
The mere action of observing suggest you are separate from the observed.
You are the subject the other is the object.
With distancing yourself through observing you are no longer emotionally associated with the event.
You are not pulling more into the me story in the head.

Its as though we are in a cinema watching one frame at a time of a film the difference is that we can change the next frame before we witness it by our attitude to this frame.
Everything with form including thought comes from the un manifest/source.
Whilst we are in this world we are also not of it.
We are both manifest in form and yet not. Spirit which is what we are is invisible.
Another way of looking at is we are both form and formless and yet neither.
So it is, as if, once we have accepted what is in form and in time, we go to the un manifest which is timeless and change or set the next frame of the film before it appears.
There is possibility that we can only select from a menu which is dictated by our vibration our personal potential which changes as we evolve spiritually.
This happens totally out with our Conscious awareness in a faction of a second and there it is, the next frame has arrived.
We are in that respect like time travelers.
Don’t make a concept or belief system of this though, it cant be proved in this world.
The explanation can only point.
This is a linear world, one thing after another appears then disappears in the eternal moment which is not linear.
Its as though there is a space time continuum, the human brain organizes the total film into what appears to be moment after moment for us to view
but we are sitting there unmoved occupying the same space in the timeless eternal moment.
You can open the projector and there it is, the whole film exposed but you have no clue about the story portrayed in the film it has to be watched on the screen moment by moment to make sense of it, that’s life.
As said already we can, it seems, change the life story, the film is set.

We also surrender to God but which concept of God?

A softer way of putting surrender to God might be “hand over to God”

The God of ancient times was seen as a paranoid dictator, his will had to be done at all times or there would be plagues, famine. Human and animal sacrifice required to appease him. He would strike you down dead for no reason other than he felt like it.
Then we moved on or rather our concept of God changed.
Now we believed in a God who might just smile on you if you did what you were told if not he would smite you dead or worse condemn you to eternal hell.
Then there were further changes of perception till we arrived at the point where we could envisage a God of pure unconditional love, no judgment day, just Love Love Love.

God has not changed one iota but our perception has radically.
Throughout time, there have been advanced souls, who experienced at first hand that love and testified to it. Because of prevailing attitudes in those times many saintly beings were tortured, crucified, killed.

It was predicted that science would one day prove the existence of God well maybe it has unbeknown.

There is an energy field through out the cosmos which pervades everything from the smallest atom to the biggest planet.
Absolutely everywhere, there is nowhere that it is not. Certainly a bit like God.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Past lives?

The only thing that can be agreed upon for sure is that our personal self awareness exists here now.
The Self that looks through these eyes is the same Self un changed that first saw the light of day years back.
That Self which we all are could be called the witnessing presence.
We are in this incarnation, apparently separate entities, what happened before our arrival in this world is conjecture.

We have all met people who took great delight in telling us “I was Cleoptra in a previous incarnation and you were such and such” Well maybe not Cleopatra but most likely some one of importance. Never yet heard anyone say “I was a road sweeper in ancient Greece”. Certainly the story would be much more interesting than this life times one.
We may all have had previous life times
Who knows, that may be true.
However just as likely a story is that the evolving soul on its way into this incarnation went shopping this, life about to be supermarket, and picked up the tools suitable for this lifetimes work.
Birth place, birth sign, past life memories of some suitable personality, parents may also have been chosen as most pertinent to the task ahead.
All that could be true with many personal variations as if the soul actually needed to evolve.

In absolute reality the soul is pure, complete one with God and in no need of evolving.

So what is going on?

It is the Cosmic Dance, Consciousness at play. On the out breath of God all materializes and with the in breath all returns to source.
So belief in past lives is fun but taking it seriously forms a belief system any belief system, any thought form cannot be ultimate Truth.
It is in the nature of form to come into being then depart. Un manifest incarnates into form then departs to the unmanifest. (Formless with potential to manifest)
The unmanifest is what you are. The wave of the ocean takes form the wave subsides into the ocean.
That’s it.
The wave no doubt takes great joy in being a wave, we likewise can take great pleasure in the blessing of being blessed with human form at this exciting time in the Cosmic Dance.

The End
That's it

[DeDukshyn]

Just dropping by to post a snippet - concerning the forces of materialization and the formation of the ego - mostly a 'feelgood' thingy but quite well articulated:


"The Creator has established laws to govern the bonding
of energy. Through these laws of materialization, the
physical universe is created and maintained. In the
material realms, these laws are right and proper. But
when they come into relationship with biological life, they
begin to behave strangely. From a perspective of
consciousness, they translate into limitation, contraction,
and ultimately death. In psychological terms, the laws of
materialization have given rise to the ego - a fictitious
identity with a sense of fear, vulnerability, and a need to
protect and defend itself. Spiritual consciousness should
not properly be associated with the forces that govern the
bonding of energy." -Ken Carey

[Eram]

The paradox of letting go of identification and receiving what the identification sets out to get.

The identification that is the most in my face these days is: 'fear of not getting enough work done'
Being a house father, watching over 2 kids and running a bed and breakfast, often gives me the feeling that I am going to run behind on things that need to be done.
When I give in to this feeling, which I do often (can't seem to help it), I become a menace, for my children and for myself. I shout at them, have no patience with them etc.
When I see the attachment to the fear, and I blow it up, creating the worst case scenario in my head, which is: being unable to provide for my children, with the house crushing under the weight of deferred maintenance (or something similar).... and I choose that the path of lifting the veil of the mind is more important to me than being able to prevent that scenario from happening.... then I go to the 'I AM' zone again (or shifting back and forth to it).
The funny thing is when I am in that place after I let go of this attachment... I am able to do much more work, have all the patience needed with my kids and...so... I get the job done after all and stay relaxed while doing it.

It is a paradox isn't it? The 'identification with' is leading to the opposite of what it is is clinging to and when we let go of it, we get what we wanted in the first place, but we don't really care about the result any more.

btw: I never read about releasing identification in this way or any other way for that matter, so please correct me if I am not applying this in the right way.

[greybeard]

The paradox of letting go of identification and receiving what the identification sets out to get.

The identification that is the most in my face these days is: 'fear of not getting enough work done'
Being a house father, watching over 2 kids and running a bed and breakfast often gives me the feeling that I am going to run behind on things that need to be done.
When I give in to this feeling, which I do often (can't seem to help it), I become a menace, for my children and for myself. I shout at them, have no patience with them etc.
When I see the attachment to the fear, and I blow it up, creating the worst case scenario in my head, which is: being unable to provide for my children, with the house crushing under the weight of deferred maintenance (or something similar).... and I choose that the path of lifting the veil of the mind is more important to me than being able to prevent that scenario from happening.... then I go to the 'I AM' zone again (or shifting back and forth to it).
The funny thing is when I am in that place after I let go of this attachment... I am able to do much more work, have all the patience needed with my kids and...so... I get the job done after all and stay relaxed while doing it.

It is a paradox isn't it? The 'identification with' is leading to the opposite of what it is is clinging to and when we let go of it, we get what we wanted in the first place, but we don't really care about the result any more.

btw: I never read about releasing identification in this way or any other way for that matter, so please correct me if I am not applying this in the correct way.

You are doing just great Wakytweaky.
You have found for yourself and expressed it in your own way, that which is to be found in quite a few spiritual teachings--old and modern.

Regards
Chris

[Jenci]

The paradox of letting go of identification and receiving what the identification sets out to get.

The identification that is the most in my face these days is: 'fear of not getting enough work done'
Being a house father, watching over 2 kids and running a bed and breakfast, often gives me the feeling that I am going to run behind on things that need to be done.
When I give in to this feeling, which I do often (can't seem to help it), I become a menace, for my children and for myself. I shout at them, have no patience with them etc.
When I see the attachment to the fear, and I blow it up, creating the worst case scenario in my head, which is: being unable to provide for my children, with the house crushing under the weight of deferred maintenance (or something similar).... and I choose that the path of lifting the veil of the mind is more important to me than being able to prevent that scenario from happening.... then I go to the 'I AM' zone again (or shifting back and forth to it).
The funny thing is when I am in that place after I let go of this attachment... I am able to do much more work, have all the patience needed with my kids and...so... I get the job done after all and stay relaxed while doing it.

It is a paradox isn't it? The 'identification with' is leading to the opposite of what it is is clinging to and when we let go of it, we get what we wanted in the first place, but we don't really care about the result any more.

btw: I never read about releasing identification in this way or any other way for that matter, so please correct me if I am not applying this in the right way.


It's all a paradox, Waky :)

We need to go to the I AM zone to become the Awareness and in becoming that Awareness we are able to see more clearly as more is revealed to us. We can see our ego and what it clings to. We can become aware of what pushes our buttons and motivates us. We can see very subtle fears and desires which we never saw before. This truly is a bitter-sweet gift because we come to understand ourselves better yet many of the subtle forces which motivate us may be very difficult for us to accept once we can see them clearly.

As we become the Awareness, we have stepped back from that and there is some relief in that. We have transcended, gone beyond, the ego and we no longer have to believe that is all that we are.

But this is not the end of it because we need to go back to everything we have transcended and the awakening has to penetrate all of the illusion but to do this we need to be firmly grounded in that field of Awareness. So we can see why it is important to become the I AM to realise what that is before delving into all the ego's grasping, resisting, desires and fears.

In teachings there are very often contradictions because of this. I believe it is important not to become rigid as our spiritual practice becomes fixed and dry.

What we are, is alive and fresh. It's like a tree blowing in the wind. If we are grounded firmly in our Awareness, we are like the tree with deep roots. The tree will sway in the wind and allow that life force to throw it around, yet it remain firmly where it is all the time. If the tree was rigid towards the life force of the wind, it would not remain where it was for very long before the wind would uproot it.

So be flexible and remain open to what life is presenting you. Don't fix to doing any one thing and learn that the contradictions and paradoxes are all part of the process.

In the end we come to realise that the ego's desires and fears are exactly what we need so after we have gone beyond them, we then come back for them.

The true awakening of the illusion happens when it is directly experienced as the Awareness. The illusion presents itself all the time to us. There is only ever this moment arising and when we have become grounded firmly as that Awareness we can allow each moment to unfold and happen as it needs to.

It may present as impatience or anger at our own children but this needs to be directly experienced and felt for the awakening to penetrate and wake up the illusion......and this, in many cases, takes courage.


Jeanette

[another bob]

The true awakening of the illusion happens when it is directly experienced as the Awareness. The illusion presents itself all the time to us. There is only ever this moment arising and when we have become grounded firmly as that Awareness we can allow each moment to unfold and happen as it needs to.

So very well said, Thank you for this clarity!

Blessings!

[another bob]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2wfst3m.jpg

[Jenci]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2wfst3m.jpg


There is absolutely nothing in it for the ego !


The irony is that the ego wants it because it thinks it will be special :)

[markpierre]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2wfst3m.jpg


There is absolutely nothing in it for the ego !


The irony is that the ego wants it because it thinks it will be special :)

Lets also mention how insidious and masterful self identity is at proving to itself that it's enlightened. That IS special.

[Mark]

I think that ego is necessary. Without ego there is no fine point with which to direct consciousness back into presence, brilliance and unity. Behind the few thoughts running around the mind buck-wild following a kensho experience remains a thread or a rope depending upon the intensity of the experience, maintaining that connection so that even as one engages in the daily grind and communication, even as one lives a life and experiences the ups and downs, there is a subtle disconnect and distance from events and mindfulness remains to greater or lesser degrees.

The ego at this point in the soul's evolution is becoming the tool it was designed to be. But to others, watching, the surety and seeming implacability of the one wielding the enlightened consciousness can seem like the epitome of egocentricity, especially if they are seeking to judge and castigate.

Who are you to know the truth? To tell others the truth? What makes you right? You're no better! I knew you when you did this or that ... I remember when you ...

... and on and on.

When the ego is allowed to run through it's stories, dwelling upon people or situations and creating realities it is always possible for any individual no matter the state of consciousness to follow the story and then speak or act in ways that support the illusion. Depending upon the situation and the extent to which he or she desires to 'get involved' in the drama, which is itself dependent upon the interconnectivity of that individual with the people in the world around him or her. What Casteneda's Don Juan called "controlled folly" seems to be another example of how people who have reached certain states of understanding interact with the world around them, in the world and seemingly of it, but not really. People can wonder constantly about whether people like Osho and Gurdjieff who did things like have sex or drink alcohol, rant and berate people around them, were enlightened or not.

Each instance and situation demands its own peculiar response. The motivation and intention behind words and actions can only be discerned if all of the factors are considered from the standpoint of the highest potentiality of all involved. And who is to say, outside of those within the experience at the time, what that might be?

Perhaps, in the end, only the Earth can truly bear witness.

[Jenci]

I think that ego is necessary. Without ego there is no fine point with which to direct consciousness back into presence, brilliance and unity.

Hi Rahkyt

I see the ego as a movement or activity of grasping and resisting. Compared to our true nature which is allowing.

I do believe that people get to the stage where there is no ego - no grasping or resisting and only ever true allowing of each moment as it arises.

Of course the ego serves a purpose to get us there. In the early stages of this journey when I became aware of my ego, I didn't like it at all and then everything just relaxed and I saw the ego without judgement and for what it was and I got to play a little with it, it was quite enjoyable.

But something deep inside was not satisfied with that.

A lot of the grasping and resisting has gone now but as it has gone, when it does happen it becomes more painful. I don't like the pain as along with it, is a deep knowing that grasping and resisting activity is not authentically me........and I have had a taste for the authentic and something inside just yearns to be that now.

That's how it is for me. Not everyone is on the same path. Not everyone is here in this life to transcend the ego. After all, we are all the same Source expressing itself in infinite ways.......not in the same way.

But for me personally, I think it all has to go.


Jeanette

[Mark]

If the entire ego goes, what is left?

Source.

Becoming a pure conduit for source would be a wonderful reality but Jeanette would be gone in all but name. The personality complex, the expression of individuality, the ego is like a flashlight, it is the way in which we direct our consciousness.

We have a choice how we direct it, and we mostly direct it in unhealthy ways, concentrating upon meaningless trivialities. The ego becomes vain and arrogant, it becomes the expression of who we are in totality, which means it is selfish, limited and fear-based.

That is the ego untamed. Once the ego is tamed, it becomes the tool of God-consciousness or Source. We retain our individuality and our personality without subsuming ourselves totally within Source.

I think all of those we watch, Mooji, Adya, Eckhart, their egos remain. We see their personalities and we love them. But it is obvious that their egos are in service to a higher version of self, that which is directly connected to Source.

[Jenci]

If the entire ego goes, what is left?

Source.

Becoming a pure conduit for source would be a wonderful reality but Jeanette would be gone in all but name. The personality complex, the expression of individuality, the ego is like a flashlight, it is the way in which we direct our consciousness.

We have a choice how we direct it, and we mostly direct it in unhealthy ways, concentrating upon meaningless trivialities. The ego becomes vain and arrogant, it becomes the expression of who we are in totality, which means it is selfish, limited and fear-based.

That is the ego untamed. Once the ego is tamed, it becomes the tool of God-consciousness or Source. We retain our individuality and our personality without subsuming ourselves totally within Source.

I think all of those we watch, Mooji, Adya, Eckhart, their egos remain. We see their personalities and we love them. But it is obvious that their egos are in service to a higher version of self, that which is directly connected to Source.



I have no choice, Rahkyt. What is happening is happening and I cannot stop it......and I have tried to stop it and failed.

I liken it to a river rushing back to its source.....and I feel the full force of that and it will sweep me away in doing so.

To be clear here when I am talking about "ego" I am talking about an activity/movement of grasping and resisting. As opposed to true nature, which is pure allowing.

Mooji, Adya, Eckhart have all lost this grasping/resisting and all live each moment allowing whatever happens to arise as it is -allowing.

But this ego is not the personality. When the grasping and resisting have fallen away and there is just the true nature, which is pure allowing, the inherent personality which is natural for that individual expression of the Source, can emerge. With those three teachers you can see their unique personalities.

I think this idea that if the ego goes, so does the personality is a common one. This cannot be understood by the mind. Personality will emerge although it may be very different to what we think that we should be like.


What we can do is use self-inquiry to deal with this belief that the ego is necessary by asking the question of ourselves, "Who believes it is necessary?" - In other words, always establish the identity of the person having the thought before believing or discarding the thought.


Jeanette

[Tarka the Duck]

Hello Chris and Everyone Else ;)

I just wanted to say how grateful I am for this wonderful thread...for me, it is of the best things about PA!
Although I don't contribute very often, I am always popping in to see what's going being discussed - it's all good stuff so thanks!

Love
Kathie

[greybeard]

Hello Chris and Everyone Else ;)

I just wanted to say how grateful I am for this wonderful thread...for me, it is of the best things about PA!
Although I don't contribute very often, I am always popping in to see what's going being discussed - it's all good stuff so thanks!

Love
Kathie


Thank you very much Kathie.

Its the contributors that have kept it going and of course the guests.
Never a cross word here, even though we may have a broad spectrum of opinion on the matter.

Much love to you
Chris

[Mark]

Ah, I guess I'm using a broader definition of ego that is inclusive of personality. Language is ever-problematic. I like the way this guy Anadi (http://www.anaditeaching.com/index.asp) explains it. This is the idea I was ineptly trying to get across. I think he is better with words than I:

"Due to their simplistic nature, traditional models of enlightenment do not offer sufficient conceptual protection against the menace of ego. Because enlightenment is commonly misunderstood as occurring through the annihilation of the ego, it is assumed that after awakening, no challenges on the level of our ego-identity remain. However, even though the supreme goal of evolution is transcendence of the mind and personality, the ego cannot be entirely dropped before our final liberation. Rather, the ego, as the intelligence of our relative consciousness, naturally accompanies us through each stage of our growth, witnessing the awakening of the inner states, consciousness, intelligence and the heart. In actuality, its purified presence supports our internal awakening.

"The nature of ego is twofold. The aspect of ego that surrenders to the soul’s intent is in fact the very energy that the soul uses for her evolution towards light. However, as long as the ego is lost in the past and holds on to its ignorance, it inevitably hinders our evolution by continuing to rule our consciousness as host. Most seekers, irrespective of their relative awakening, experience the ego, or false me, as their center of identity. They are egos, not yet souls. Prior to soul-realization, the ego claims awakening, believing that it owns the inner state and the knowledge of I am. As it matures in its evolution, it begins to recognize that it was originally created to serve our awakening, and that its final destiny is to surrender itself to the soul. However, until the ego has been sufficiently cleansed with the light of higher intelligence, it will resist its own dissolution. Even after realizing its own unreality, it will continue to return through the back door to assert supremacy. This is the point where one usually proclaims: “I am enlightened!”, “I am a master!”, “I have reached…”, “I… I… I…”

"Until the mind surrenders, we remain vulnerable to the ego’s impure tendencies. In the initial stages of its inner quest, the ego’s immaturity leads it to treat spirituality as a playground for its basic emotions. It uses spiritual practice to wallow in feelings of self-pity, lack of self-worth, guilt and shame; or alternately, to inflate itself with pride, arrogance and competitiveness. The spiritual ego is in fact quite worldly. Entering the path has not changed its basic neurotic nature, only the sphere of its activities. Now, instead of wanting fame or fortune, it wants to reach god or attain enlightenment. In both cases we encounter the same bogus ego displaying its vanity.

"In its madness, the ego constantly seeks ways to sneak into spiritual territory. It tries to make itself special in one way or another by taking on ‘spiritual’ roles — holy man, rebel, eccentric, even redeemer. The idea of being holy may appeal to the ego because it craves respect, if not from others, at least from itself. Or perhaps it is more attracted to rebelliousness and prefers the role of an unholy character, enjoying the chance to show off how original it is. Maybe it wishes to become a healer or great master, for it finds the idea of helping others exciting. It might even believe that it has a unique role to play on earth and has been chosen for great things. But perhaps the most insidious way that the ego can assert itself is by assuming a stance of humility and devotion to magnify a false sense of piety. No matter what role the ego chooses to play, its performances are no more than pitiful attempts to maintain its fundamentally empty identity.

"The more conscious we become, the more cautious we must be, for the ego’s games become increasingly sophisticated as we evolve. Letting go of the ego is not only the final goal of the inner path, but an unremitting act of becoming real inside. As cunning as it is, the ego ultimately has no way to succeed in manipulating the spiritual path for its own purposes. Sooner or later it must relinquish itself at the altar of our original self, for it has no essential reality — it does not exist apart from the illusory image it projects."

[Jenci]

Ah, I guess I'm using a broader definition of ego that is inclusive of personality. Language is ever-problematic.

Yes language can be a problem. This is why I think it helps to look at ego in terms of its movement/activity in the body. It can be "sensed" or "felt" in the grasping and resisting.

The grasping and resisting is the ego's desires and fears manifesting in a physical sensation.

In contrast to the grasping and resisting we have our true nature which is "allowing". A sense of this can be felt physically when there is no grasping or resisting.

At first we may not even realise that this grasping and resisting is happening but the more aware we become the more sensitive we will be to even the tiniest, subtle movements that it makes, which show us that the ego is at play.




I like the way this guy Anadi (http://www.anaditeaching.com/index.asp) explains it. This is the idea I was ineptly trying to get across. I think he is better with words than I:

"Due to their simplistic nature, traditional models of enlightenment do not offer sufficient conceptual protection against the menace of ego. Because enlightenment is commonly misunderstood as occurring through the annihilation of the ego, it is assumed that after awakening, no challenges on the level of our ego-identity remain. However, even though the supreme goal of evolution is transcendence of the mind and personality, the ego cannot be entirely dropped before our final liberation. Rather, the ego, as the intelligence of our relative consciousness, naturally accompanies us through each stage of our growth, witnessing the awakening of the inner states, consciousness, intelligence and the heart. In actuality, its purified presence supports our internal awakening.

"The nature of ego is twofold. The aspect of ego that surrenders to the soul’s intent is in fact the very energy that the soul uses for her evolution towards light. However, as long as the ego is lost in the past and holds on to its ignorance, it inevitably hinders our evolution by continuing to rule our consciousness as host. Most seekers, irrespective of their relative awakening, experience the ego, or false me, as their center of identity. They are egos, not yet souls. Prior to soul-realization, the ego claims awakening, believing that it owns the inner state and the knowledge of I am. As it matures in its evolution, it begins to recognize that it was originally created to serve our awakening, and that its final destiny is to surrender itself to the soul. However, until the ego has been sufficiently cleansed with the light of higher intelligence, it will resist its own dissolution. Even after realizing its own unreality, it will continue to return through the back door to assert supremacy. This is the point where one usually proclaims: “I am enlightened!”, “I am a master!”, “I have reached…”, “I… I… I…”

"Until the mind surrenders, we remain vulnerable to the ego’s impure tendencies. In the initial stages of its inner quest, the ego’s immaturity leads it to treat spirituality as a playground for its basic emotions. It uses spiritual practice to wallow in feelings of self-pity, lack of self-worth, guilt and shame; or alternately, to inflate itself with pride, arrogance and competitiveness. The spiritual ego is in fact quite worldly. Entering the path has not changed its basic neurotic nature, only the sphere of its activities. Now, instead of wanting fame or fortune, it wants to reach god or attain enlightenment. In both cases we encounter the same bogus ego displaying its vanity.

"In its madness, the ego constantly seeks ways to sneak into spiritual territory. It tries to make itself special in one way or another by taking on ‘spiritual’ roles — holy man, rebel, eccentric, even redeemer. The idea of being holy may appeal to the ego because it craves respect, if not from others, at least from itself. Or perhaps it is more attracted to rebelliousness and prefers the role of an unholy character, enjoying the chance to show off how original it is. Maybe it wishes to become a healer or great master, for it finds the idea of helping others exciting. It might even believe that it has a unique role to play on earth and has been chosen for great things. But perhaps the most insidious way that the ego can assert itself is by assuming a stance of humility and devotion to magnify a false sense of piety. No matter what role the ego chooses to play, its performances are no more than pitiful attempts to maintain its fundamentally empty identity.

"The more conscious we become, the more cautious we must be, for the ego’s games become increasingly sophisticated as we evolve. Letting go of the ego is not only the final goal of the inner path, but an unremitting act of becoming real inside. As cunning as it is, the ego ultimately has no way to succeed in manipulating the spiritual path for its own purposes. Sooner or later it must relinquish itself at the altar of our original self, for it has no essential reality — it does not exist apart from the illusory image it projects."

That's a very good write up of how the ego plays out, particularly after the initial awakening and how it plays an important role in the whole process up to the point of liberation when it surrenders.

Ramana said, you use a thorn to remove a thorn then throw both away. I think that is what he was saying.


Jeanette

[Zampano]

Wow, there was a good traffic going on here on this thread this summer!
Sad to say, but autumn started to say hello yesterday....
Clear sky, nearly no noise from the insects, temperature was nicy nice.

Summer is joyful and euphoric, it goes, autumn is great and melancholc, but it goes...
After my summer break I see that you wonderful persons left a HUGE pile of good information and insights here

I am eager to go through it and finally add my thoughts

[greybeard]

The snake-- the serpent is the symbol for renewal and the Divine feminine--creator of the manifest from the un-manifest energy of the masculine Shiva
The snake sheds its skin.
The formless becomes all manifestation through Kundalini/Shakti including the illusion called Maya.

This site is excellent.
Not saying I agree with all of it--- I just dont know.

Chris

https://sites.google.com/site/kundalinisupport/kundalini-questions

[greybeard]

A Quest Beyond the Limits of the Ordinary
Rupert Sheldrake and Bruce Lipton

Holographic universe etc

Chris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXpndnjHvqw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXpndnjHvqw&feature=related

[greybeard]

David Sereda
a recent and full interview.
Touching on his spiritual experiences including meeting Christ in an out of body event.
Also information on his UFO's sightings and film made with Dan Akroyd.
Frankly some of it takes a lot of believing.
On the whole I like it simple.
Love God and your fellow man to the best of your ability does it for me.
However I like to be open minded

Chris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ckWjyFAts


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ckWjyFAts

[another bob]

On the whole I like it simple.
Love God and your fellow man to the best of your ability does it for me.

http://i45.tinypic.com/260e8aa.jpg


Does it for me :yo:

[Jenci]

Let Go. Surrender. Give Up.

Just as I think I have done that, the realisation that there is more to let go of. The irony is that the act of surrender is so liberating and yet something avoids that moment at all costs and all the time I don't surrender, I suffer.


Adyashanti - slip out of the driver's seat into the passenger seat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWOYbXS8Dgk

[greybeard]

Hi Jenci
When K is awakened Shakti is in the driver seat and you are in the taxi being taken home (enlightenment)
Resistance is futile--- and painful.
You cant hurry or slow down the process it all happens in the Divine's time.
You never get more than you can handle in a day-- as you well know-- smiling.
The body nervous system is being upgraded to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
There is quite a bit about this in the recent David Sereda interview just posted.

With love chris

[Jenci]

Papaji talking about surrender.

Filmed in 1993 - you may notice that the seeker that Papaji is speaking to is Mooji. This talk on surrender is in reponse to a letter that Mooji wrote to Papaji. The preceding video of Papaji reading the letter can be seen here, Mooji at Papaji's feet http://www.mooji.org/videos_classic.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDFXYCvTguE

[another bob]

Let Go. Surrender. Give Up.

Just as I think I have done that, the realisation that there is more to let go of. The irony is that the act of surrender is so liberating and yet something avoids that moment at all costs and all the time I don't surrender, I suffer.


http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/the-story/

:yo:

[Jenci]

Hi Jenci
When K is awakened Shakti is in the driver seat and you are in the taxi being taken home (enlightenment)
Resistance is futile--- and painful.
You cant hurry or slow down the process it all happens in the Divine's time.
You never get more than you can handle in a day-- as you well know-- smiling.
The body nervous system is being upgraded to accept a higher spiritual vibration.
There is quite a bit about this in the recent David Sereda interview just posted.

With love chris


Thanks Chris. Of course I know all of this but....... :rofl:


The resistance gets very painful these days but everything is happening exactly as it is meant to :)


Jeanette

[Jenci]

Let Go. Surrender. Give Up.

Just as I think I have done that, the realisation that there is more to let go of. The irony is that the act of surrender is so liberating and yet something avoids that moment at all costs and all the time I don't surrender, I suffer.


http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/the-story/

:yo:



It was all good reading, thanks Bob. I picked out this in particular.




At last comes a difficult chasm to cross: the breakthrough recognition that all of it — the whole story of “me and mine” — is simply a beaming projection of one’s own mind. To then turn around and plunge directly into the source of that mind — that’s what takes tremendous courage. It is most rare, most excellent.

[greybeard]

What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
Mind you am trying to let go of this I
When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

Namaste

[Jenci]

What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
Mind you am trying to let go of this I
When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

Namaste


Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere.:blabla: I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......


I find simple lines helpful to contemplate. I'm just reflecting on this one this morning by Alan Watts (Fred posted in the mantra thread http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?49454-Mantras.&p=550295&viewfull=1#post550295 at 6.20 minutes)


"In the world of pure sound, can you find someone who is actually listening?

Can you hear any difference between all these sounds on the one hand and yourself on the other?"



Jeanette

[another bob]

What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
Mind you am trying to let go of this I
When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

Namaste


Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere.:blabla: I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......


http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/surrender/


:yo:

[Jenci]

What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
Mind you am trying to let go of this I
When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

Namaste


Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere.:blabla: I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......


http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/surrender/


:yo:



What is surrender? The surrender that can be done is not true surrender.

Who surrenders to what? Who surrenders what?


Good questions......:)

[greybeard]

Conscious TV!!
There is a wealth of spiritual interviews on this link.
The most recent by the Physicist Dr Amit Goswami - 'Consciousness, Quantum Physics and Being Human'
Once again Science and spirituality meet.
Chris

http://www.conscious.tv/

[sirdipswitch]

I don't surrender anything. I went for the brass ring. I now ask, for nothing. I know who I am.

You can be anything you wish to be.

I, prefer, being me.

love, peace, humor
sirdipswitch

[Sebastion]

I would like to interject a little something here regarding my version of surrender. I found out near the end that when I let go of my attachments to the soul body, there was nothing left, not even surrender in any term one would use. I just let it all go period as there was no-thing to do and I had no clue what, if anything would/was going to happen. So without having a clue I had no choice but just let go, period. Just let go. No I, no soul, no nothing and then after a short period, maybe several weeks, it all came. Simple trust was all that was required.







What I like about this thread is that it supports us all no matter what we are experiencing.
Our Satsang is greatly appreciated, I find the sharing very helpful.
Mind you am trying to let go of this I
When "I" disappears only God is left (Papaji video)

Namaste


Papaji said that surrendering to God is not surrender. You have to surrender the ego so that God becomes within you. This "I" likes to get in everywhere.:blabla: I do this, I do that, I pray, I surrender, I get rid of the "I@......


http://feelingtoinfinity.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/surrender/


:yo:



What is surrender? The surrender that can be done is not true surrender.

Who surrenders to what? Who surrenders what?


Good questions......:)

[greybeard]

Yogananda in the book Divine Romance said its like a game of hide and seek with the Beloved.
My experience of life is that, What you chase after runs away.
Ramesh Quote " God gave you an ego let Him take it away"
Also "The biggest obstacle is the thought I am the doer."

So you could say " Let go let God"

Obviously Sebastion got the desired result because there was no desire for a result.

Thanks to recent new contributors.

Chris

[greybeard]

Awesome Gregg Braden video
On co-creation--- science of the power of the heart.
One of the best videos on the power of our belief.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp-P031C4Vg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp-P031C4Vg

[greybeard]

The passing of Dr David Hawkins one of the main influences in my life.
Chris

Message flagged from Dr Hawkins publisher.
Monday, 24 September 2012, 19:40







Our Beloved Teacher, Dr. David R. Hawkins

June 3, 1927 – September 19, 2012

Gloria in Excelsis Deo!



"Consciousness research confirms that death is not a possibility.

Life itself is supported by its eternal Source, from which it cannot be separated.”



Dr. David R. Hawkins passed peacefully at home on September 19th,

surrounded by his loving pets and family.



The public memorial service will be held at:

Trinity Cathedral

100 West Roosevelt

Phoenix, Arizona 85003

Monday, October 8, 2012, at 10 a.m.



Please carpool - parking is limited.

Doors will close at 9:45 a.m.



Seating capacity is limited to 500.

If you plan to attend, please email RSVP to info@veritaspub.com.



In lieu of flowers and gifts,

tax-exempt donations may be made to the Institute for Spiritual Research.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

An overview of Dr Hawkins teachings and life can be found on this link.


http://de.spiritualwiki.org/Hawkins/Teachings

Chris

[Chris Gilbert]

Some experiences wherein the ego appears to dissapear are temporary. Such events involve the "conditioned self" and deeper layers essentially being taken apart and put back together (one example would be the Kundalini going through its initial activation). Afterwards, the ego will come back, but it has been refined, allowing higher light to shine through it. Such processes are ongoing, the ego can be refined and transformed into the carriage instead of the driver but it's not gone in any absolute sense.

[Jenci]

Some experiences wherein the ego appears to dissapear are temporary. Such events involve the "conditioned self" and deeper layers essentially being taken apart and put back together (one example would be the Kundalini going through its initial activation). Afterwards, the ego will come back, but it has been refined, allowing higher light to shine through it. Such processes are ongoing, the ego can be refined and transformed into the carriage instead of the driver but it's not gone in any absolute sense.



Hi Enishi and welcome to the thread.

This is true that people have experiences in which the ego disappears and it is temporary but the teachings in this thread are pointing to something which is permanent and many of the teachers here have had their ego dissolve. In the absolute sense, ego is illusion so it can't do anything but disappear.

I think confusion rises on this with the definition of ego where people think that no ego means no individual personality. Ego is not personality. The ego is the illusory sense of self which is an activity of separation which manifests in grasping and resisting in the person.

This grasping and resisting can stop permanently but the ego will do everything it can to prevent its own dissolution so idea that the ego can never go, if investigated as to the origin of the thought, it will be seen that it is the grasping/resisting of the ego itself which is having the thought.


Still, complete dissolution of the ego is not everyone's aim or desire in this lifetime; we are all here to have individual experiences but if it is being sought, then there is much that can be done to help the process.

Jeanette

[greybeard]

Yes there is something you can do.
Refreshing turn around from neo advaita (there is nothing you can do)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPToCeiaCKs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPToCeiaCKs


http://www.conscious.tv/
If you click on the link then go down the list to these two accounts of spiritual journeys I think you will be delighted.

Chris

Transformations - Mandi Solk - 'Self Enquiry - Know Yourself' - Interview by Renate McNay
Author of 'The Joy Of No Self' talks about her complete turn around of her belief that there is nothing you can do to awaken ... to "YES" there is something you can do......Mandi found lasting freedom through the method of "Self Enquiry" by Ramana Maharshi.

Transformations - Saraswathi - 'The Light Of Wisdom' - Interview by Renate McNay
Author of 'Averi And The Unknown' talks about her Awakening in 2003 and since then the constant peeling away of old structures and beliefs. Awakening is just the first step, then you need to clear up the whole world. She was asked by her teacher Sai Baba to hold talks on the Heart. After her Awakening also words started to emerge and she wrote a thought provoking spiritual Novel.

[greybeard]

Bill did a great interview with Marcel Messing some time back-- this is recent.
Marcel very much has the finger on pulse of what is happening on many levels.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4qwW_zjdDI

[greybeard]

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi

page 76


D.: The Gita was taught for action.
M.: What does the Gita say? Arjuna refused to fight.
Krishna said, “So long as you refuse to fight, you have the sense of
doership. Who are you to refrain or to act? Give up the notion of
doership. Until that sense disappears you are bound to act. You are
being manipulated by a Higher Power. You are admitting it by your
own refusal to submit to it. Instead recognise the Power and submit as
a tool. (Or to put it differently), if you refuse you will be forcibly drawn
into it. Instead of being an unwilling worker, be a willing one.
“Rather, be fixed in the Self and act according to nature without
the thought of doership. Then the results of action will not affect
you. That is manliness and heroism.”


Chris

[greybeard]

OBITUARY



Sir David Ramon Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D., affectionately called “Doc,” died peacefully at home in Sedona, Arizona, on September 19, 2012, at the age of 85. He was born on June 3, 1927, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin; he had been a resident of Sedona since 1979.



He is survived by his wife Susan J. Hawkins of Sedona, step-daughter Sarah J. Humphrey (Josh Spradling), and step-granddaughter Evren L. Spradling of Peoria, Arizona.



Dr. Hawkins was renowned as a physician, author, lecturer, and researcher of consciousness. After serving in the U.S. Navy during WWII, he graduated from the Medical College of Wisconsin in 1953. For the next 25 years, he lived in New York, where his pioneering work as a psychiatrist brought major clinical breakthroughs, especially in the treatment of schizophrenia and alcoholism. His research findings were published widely in medical, scientific, and psychoanalytic journals. As Medical Director of the North Nassau Mental Health Center (1956–1980) and Director of Research at Brunswick Hospital (1968–1979) on Long Island, he had the largest practice in New York. Dr. Hawkins also served as a psychiatric advisor to Catholic, Protestant, and Buddhist monasteries. In 1973, he co-authored Orthomolecular Psychiatry with Nobel Laureate chemist Linus Pauling, initiating a new field within psychiatry and leading to appearances on The Today Show, The Barbara Walters Show, and The Mcneil/Leher News Hour.

Dr. Hawkins spent the last three decades of his life in Arizona, working to correlate the seemingly disparate domains of science and spirituality. In 1983, he established the Institute for Spiritual Research, a nonprofit organization dedicated to consciousness research. During the 1980s, his lectures at such events as the First National Conference on Addictions and Consciousness (1985) and Whole Life Expo (1986), both held in California, re-contextualized addiction by illuminating the underlying spiritual drive for inner peace and how to cultivate it apart from substances. During the 1990s, he served as the Chief of Staff at Mingus Mountain Estate Residential Treatment Center for adolescent girls in Prescott Valley and was the consulting psychiatrist for several recovery houses in Arizona.



In 1995, at the age of 68, he received a Ph.D. in Health and Human Services. That same year saw the publication of his book, Power vs. Force, translated into 25 languages, with over a million copies sold and evoking praise from such notables as Mother Teresa and Sam Walton. The book presents his trademarked “Map of Consciousness,” now used by health professionals, university professors, government officials, and business executives worldwide. Many other books followed: The Eye of the I; I: Reality and Subjectivity; Truth vs. Falsehood; Transcending the Levels of Consciousness: The Stairway to Enlightenment; Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality; Reality, Spirituality and Modern Man; Healing and Recovery, Along the Path to Enlightenment; and Dissolving the Ego, Realizing the Self.



From 1998-2011, Dr. Hawkins traveled widely as a lecturer throughout the U.S. and overseas, speaking to sold-out audiences about the science of consciousness and the reality of advanced spiritual states. He spoke at the Oxford Forum and Westminster Abbey, as well as universities such as Harvard University, University of Argentina, University of Notre Dame, University of California, and Fordham University. His final lecture, on “Love,” occurred in September of 2011, attended by 1700 people from around the world.



Dr. Hawkins was active to the very end. Just before his passing, he completed a video-recorded dialogue series and finished his twelfth book, Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender.



Dr. Hawkins received numerous recognitions for his scientific and humanitarian contributions, including: The Huxley Award for the "Inestimable Contribution to the Alleviation of Human Suffering," Physicians Recognition Award by the American Medical Association, 50-Year Distinguished Life Fellow by the American Psychiatric Association, the Orthomolecular Medicine Hall of Fame, Who’s Who in the World, and a nomination for the prestigious Templeton Prize that honors progress in Science and Religion. In recognition of his contributions to humanity, Dr. Hawkins was knighted in 1996 by the Sovereign Order of the Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem by authority of the Priory of King Valdemar the Great. In 2000, he was bestowed the title, "Tae Ryoung Sun Kak Tosa" (Teacher of Enlightenment), in Seoul, Korea.



Throughout his life, Dr. Hawkins participated in a wide range of civic and professional endeavors, often in a leadership role. As a physician, he co-founded or served as medical advisor for many organizations, including the Schizophrenia Foundations of New York and Long Island, the Attitudinal Healing Center of Long Island, the New York Association of Holistic Health Centers, and the Academy of Orthomolecular Psychiatry. He was co-director of the Masters Gallery of Fine Arts. Born with an exceptionally high IQ, he became a member of Mensa International in 1963. As a young doctor, he was attracted to Buddhism and joined the first Zen Institute in the U.S. At the time of his death, he had been a member of St. Andrews Episcopal Church for many years. He was the first President of the Country and Western Dance Club of Sedona, a member of the VFW, American Legion, and the Sedona Elks Lodge. He was an archer, carpenter, blacksmith, musician (bagpiper, violinist, pianist), designer of prize-winning 16th-century French Norman architecture, and lover of animals.



Internationally, Dr. Hawkins was the founder of Devotional Nonduality (2003), a spiritual pathway that applies the core truths of the world’s great traditions: kindness and compassion for all of life (including oneself), unconditional love, humility, inquiry into the nature of existence, surrender, and Self-Realization. Since 2002, “Hawkins Study Groups” have autonomously sprung up in many cities around the world, from Los Angeles to Seoul, from Cape Town to Melbourne; the groups study and practice the principles of his books, such as: "We change the world not by what we say or do but as a consequence of what we have become."



A public memorial service will be held at Trinity Cathedral in Phoenix, Arizona, on Monday, October 8, 2012, at 10 a.m., officiated by Priest Mary Piotrowski, Rector of St. Andrews Episcopal Church in Sedona, Arizona. Seating is limited; RSVP email requested: info@veritaspub.com. In lieu of flowers or gifts, tax-exempt donations may be made to the Institute for Spiritual Research.

[greybeard]

Conscious tv interview Mandi Solk
Very humorous but brilliant.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTx8SOChZc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTx8SOChZc

[greybeard]

Marianne Williamson on the mystical power of intimate relationships.
A beautiful interview.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ZLkxlV1O8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-ZLkxlV1O8

[Ahauchata]

On this end there was a time as I entered into the deeper realms of spirituality where I use to feel that the ego had to be destroyed. Than over time I began to question this as for me I always hear of people saying one must transcend the ego however; to me this doesn't make sense since than why is it created? I do feel that if one uses the ego as a tool and a motivator for creation and if the ego is kept in check to me it is a motivator. Now; I also feel that it is important for oneself to have control of the ego and not let the ego run amoke, such in the cases that are deemed not in the vibration of love (fear) and the related energies associated with the latter aspects of ego. Use ego as a tool for the Higher Self yes, to be controlled. Let ego do the driving ahhhh nope. :)

[greybeard]

Jim Carrey the film star speaks of his awakening.
Also Gregg Braden.
Well worth viewing.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57vmJxWBeRM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57vmJxWBeRM

[greybeard]

Eckhart Tolle Circles of awakening Tao Te Chin

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKFS64boAso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKFS64boAso

[greybeard]

An enlightened dog---- smiling.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDYYPnDBU0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDYYPnDBU0

[Caren]

Hello Chris, that's just beautiful! Thank you :) (hahaha)

[greybeard]

Ramana translation of the Atma Sakshatkara

52. When a pot is carried, though the space within the pot,
Is conceived of as carried,
Is it not solely the pot that is carried?
The Self too. like Space, remains motionless.

53. When the pot breaks, the space in the pot
Merges with the great Space.
When the inert body passes away, the Self, seemingly in the body,
Becomes immediately one with the Supreme Self.

54 Thus the Authority (behind creation) the omniscient Lord
Spoke on that occasion with finality.
One who is liberated, free from bondage
Realises omni-presence and endless absolute Awareness.


That text is many thousand years old--- long before Christ or the Buddha.
To be clear you are that space, that formless awareness, temporarily seeming to be confined within a body.
You are eternal.
Your are That I am.

Found in the collected works of Ramana Maharshi page 168

Chris

[greybeard]

Recent Gregg Braden Interview.
Basically what happens within happens without---your heart feelings influence the world.
Be well
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjR-6Nl6Yk4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjR-6Nl6Yk4

[Jenci]

Ramana translation of the Atma Sakshatkara

52. When a pot is carried, though the space within the pot,
Is conceived of as carried,
Is it not solely the pot that is carried?
The Self too. like Space, remains motionless.

53. When the pot breaks, the space in the pot
Merges with the great Space.
When the inert body passes away, the Self, seemingly in the body,
Becomes immediately one with the Supreme Self.

54 Thus the Authority (behind creation) the omniscient Lord
Spoke on that occasion with finality.
One who is liberated, free from bondage
Realises omni-presence and endless absolute Awareness.


That text is many thousand years old--- long before Christ or the Buddha.
To be clear you are that space, that formless awareness, temporarily seeming to be confined within a body.
You are eternal.
Your are That I am.

Found in the collected works of Ramana Maharshi page 168

Chris


I used to spend many hours in my room, silently contemplating what the space was and what the room would be without it.

It was a worthwhile exercise :)


Jeanette

[latshaw]

love this reply Chris - I can completely relate and understand.

[greybeard]

Nassim Haramein, Eckhart tolle,Adyashanti, Jill Bolte taylor, sadhguru jaggi vasudev

Bits and pieces taken from videos.
The Eckhart Tolle part about his awakening in particular is interesting
Chris





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cptiDWOa5ao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cptiDWOa5ao

[greybeard]

Soap operas

I am aware that skill full writers directors and actors pull the emotions this way and that.
One moment a character is portrayed as the hero and then some new fact arises and other context is applied and they are seen as the villain.
The viewer is drawn into judging to the degree that the associated emotion is exactly the same as if the play is real.

Could it be that life is similar?
We see it as happening to us but in reality it is not a personal event, its just life doing what it does.
In the same way that we can step back from the play on TV and enjoy it ,even have opinions but be fully aware that the play is not real, it does not have to affect us, we have that choice, we can step back from what appears to be happening in life but remain unaffected.

The Me is the culprit--- any time the story is mine there is suffering or pleasure.
Any time I apply a judgement I have fully entered into the play—Me is right in there.

Jesus said “Wear the world like a loose garment and I have overcome the world”.

The Bagavad Gita says

Events happen
Deeds are done
There is no individual doer there of.

Jesus said. “Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within.”

The sages teach that we in our true reality are unaffected by the vicissitudes of life.

Thats why Ramana says “First find who is experiencing XYZ”
His famous question “Who am I?” does not lead to an answer that the mind understands.
What happens is that questioner dissolves into the One.
Then there is no longer a commentator with a strongly held opinion/judgement.
Preference remains but there is no emotion behind that.

Chris

[Tony]

Soap operas

I am aware that skill full writers directors and actors pull the emotions this way and that.
One moment a character is portrayed as the hero and then some new fact arises and other context is applied and they are seen as the villain.
The viewer is drawn into judging to the degree that the associated emotion is exactly the same as if the play is real.

Could it be that life is similar?
We see it as happening to us but in reality it is not a personal event, its just life doing what it does.
In the same way that we can step back from the play on TV and enjoy it ,even have opinions but be fully aware that the play is not real, it does not have to affect us, we have that choice, we can step back from what appears to be happening in life but remain unaffected.

The Me is the culprit--- any time the story is mine there is suffering or pleasure.
Any time I apply a judgement I have fully entered into the play—Me is right in there.

Jesus said “Wear the world like a loose garment and I have overcome the world”.

The Bagavad Gita says

Events happen
Deeds are done
There is no individual doer there of.

Jesus said. “Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within.”

The sages teach that we in our true reality are unaffected by the vicissitudes of life.

Thats why Ramana says “First find who is experiencing XYZ”
His famous question “Who am I?” does not lead to an answer that the mind understands.
What happens is that questioner dissolves into the One.
Then there is no longer a commentator with a strongly held opinion/judgement.
Preference remains but there is no emotion behind that.

Chris




...........'nough said!!!

[greybeard]

Global coherence initiative.


The Global Coherence Initiative is a science-based, co-creative project to unite people in heart-focused care and intention, to facilitate the shift in global consciousness from instability and discord to balance, cooperation and enduring peace.

This worth a look.

Chris



http://www.glcoherence.org/

[greybeard]

Proof Of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey Into The Afterlife with Dr. Eben Alexander III

One of the best Near Death Experiences I have heard.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSb3G53HsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSb3G53HsA

[greybeard]

Some very good interviews via this link including the Dr in the post above.
Oprah Super Soul Sunday.
Chris

http://www.oprah.com/own-super-soul-sunday/super-soul-sunday-episodes.html

[greybeard]

The most positive 2012 video yet.
Full of scientific info yet enjoyable to watch.
Thanks to Gio for binging it to Avalon Via the ranch.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMymXI4KAg&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMymXI4KAg&feature=player_embedded

[mysticmandy]

I see ego as our preoccupation with the flesh/beast nature and physical survival. This preoccupation keeps us fear-based and serving man over spirit, the conventional over change, competition & duality over love & unity etc. I believe that one transcends Ego through learning to release the material and various addictions, attachments, dualities etc. I believe that the true way is simplicity. Simplicity and releasing what owns us and what we own helps us to transcend concepts of ownership which are based in illusion (and which keep us treating everything as products for buy and sell.) However, most people have been conditioned to see simplicity as being 'poor' or not being good enough etc. So they fear it and thus fear the enlightened masters that came before who found enlightenment through giving up their attachment to the physical world and its forms.

I agree with another poster that some of our spiritual short cuts (attunements, dna activations etc) are nice ideas, but they may keep us in the dark in other ways. For this reason, I like how the bible asks us to examine every prophecy from its fruits, i.e. take an honest look at the world and how it seems locked within a race of its own creation. Start asking why? i.e. is it our illusion concepts of "success" vs "failure" that we serve? Why do we serve them? Why is our cup never full? etc. Society has become very materialistic and is creating its own false anti-life/anti-love fruits (material destruction, environmental degradation, every man for himself). Plus too many "high vibration" exercises may make people feel too 'yang' or sped up. In reality, our real issue is that many of us are frightened to become too yin, i.e. not producing enough and thus being seen as "lazy" or "worth-less."

How I approach my ego now (because its not always easy to see where its in control), is by starting to decipher all of the unconscious mantras that are subliminally spoken by many of us collectively and which are beginning to manifest fruits in the collective world. Notice polarities and how they manifest. For example; 'I want/need to manifest more, etc" is also "I am not enough, I do not do enough, I do not have enough." Then notice the personal and collective excess /waste / depletion / exhaustion scenarios that arise, and ask why? We are so focused on man-made abundance we forget to love life. Natures natural abundance becomes wasted. We become anit-life, which evil is simply live spelled backwards.

My advice is to look at nature to let Her show you the true way to enlightenment. Nature is not capable of deception. See the ways our various subliminal and collective mantras (many rooted in our lifestyles and norms that we never think to question) are manifesting on a collective level and what Nature is telling us about our thoughts and decisions. Once you open your mind to all the ways our unthought of thoughts are bringing unbalance into the world, then you will know how to decipher what brings peace, balance, enlightenment and love. You become the lotus, not the muddy pond...

There is an amazing site which goes along with many of my own beliefs.
http://ascension2012.in/step5.html

[truthseekerdan]

Hi Chris and friends, -- just thought I'll post this info here for the benefit of All that will read it...


Source: http://scienceofenergyhealing.com/dec-time-of-no-grids/

Dec 21-23: A Time of No Grids

"There are lots of predictions about the window of time Dec 21-23. The group that I’ve been working with went through a mini-experience of the energies of this time window and found it nothing to fear. It is an energy experience and our bodies know how to handle energy, even when it can get a bit intense at times!

Before I explain how I view the upcoming window I need to provide a little context about my energy view of the world.

We live in a world of many dimensions that have grids or patterns of energy lines different in each dimension. These grids form the consciousness or paradigm of each dimension. We use these grids to locate ourselves in a multidimensional world (think geese migrating on invisible magnetic grid lines). We also use grids to help order and organize incoming energies which in turn creates our level of consciousness or paradigm on the planet.

The current paradigm that we are in that I call the Old Energy Paradigm is now ending. The New Energy Paradigm will begin Dec 21-23 when the new grids are brought in during the exchange of energy between the Earth and the center of the galaxy.

This is an involutionary shift versus an evolutionary one. With evolution we build bit by bit toward our highest potential. It’s a ground up movement. With involution, the highest potential comes in from above and we anchor it into our physical bodies and the Earth. It’s a top down model and occurs with less frequency than the evolutionary one. Think sudden spiritual awakening as an example. It will take a while for all consciousness to catch up to the new potential, but anyone who can perceive the New Energy Paradigm can begin to work with its potential immediately. The shift begins within yourself and you’ll relate differently to the world. Bit by bit you’ll see this inner “newness” reflected externally as well.

Currently the Old Energy grids are down and gone forever. This fact may make you a bit anxious this week. Keep your sense of Self centered in the middle of your body and don’t get caught up in unnecessary drama. Put your focus more on Be-in than Do-ing. Keep it simple.

Here’s the timeline:

Dec 21: Energy from the center of the galaxy will be moving down through the body. Place your awareness on your feet to help ground it into the Earth.

Dec 22: Earth responds to this galactic energy by sending powerful Life Force energy up to meet it. This upward movement can upset the intestines which want to move energy down. Get lots of rest as your body can assimilate the energy better when your consciousness is “offline.”

Dec 23: Earth ties into the New Grids. Celebrate and welcome in the New Energy Paradigm!

To better understand the New Energy Paradigm I have created gia’s Energy Guide to 2013. (http://scienceofenergyhealing.com/energy-guide-2013) which includes 4 live (and recorded) energy meditations on each Solstice and Equinox. We begin on Dec 23 as this most auspicious time to connect to the New Energy Grids.

Please join me if this resonates for you. There’s as much to unlearn from old consciousness patterns that will no longer work in the New Energies as there is to learn!"

[greybeard]

Hi Dan the link not working for me
Chris

[truthseekerdan]

Hi Dan the link not working for me
Chris

Sorry about that -- there was a typo. Fixed now!

[greybeard]

On the 21st. Wishing all peace and love and harmony in your world.

Chris

[greybeard]

Deva Premal sings the Gayatri Mantra in 32 different countries around the world.

Om bhur bhuvah svaha
Tat savitur varenyam
Bhargo devasya dhimahi
Dhiyo yonah prachodayat

"Praise to the source of all things.
It is due to you that we attain true happiness on all planes.
It is due to your transcendent nature that you are being worshipped and adored.
Ignite us with your all pervading light."

This is a mantra I have been repeating almost daily for years.
The translation I like is

"The Earth the sky the heavens
That Divine effulgence that we all adore
I contemplate on your Divine glory
Please help me enlighten my intellect"

Chris



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlUsoWmso9U&list=HL1356208019[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlUsoWmso9U&list=HL1356208019[/youtube]

[truthseekerdan]

Chris and friends,

Wish you all Happy Holidays, and a more Conscious Unity New Year ahead.

Here are some facts about Christmas (http://spiritfeast.blogspot.com/2012/12/christmas-most-pagan-of-holidays.html).

More info in the video below (many may be shocked). Enjoy!

QT9__e75GGw


Much Love always :hug:

[greybeard]

Many thanks Dan.
Wishing you and yours a great Christmas and a wondrous 2013

Also wishing all who contribute to this thread and all who view it an uplifting 2013.

Much love Chris

[greybeard]

Chris and friends,

Wish you all Happy Holidays, and a more Conscious Unity New Year ahead.

Here are some facts about Christmas (http://spiritfeast.blogspot.com/2012/12/christmas-most-pagan-of-holidays.html).

More info in the video below (many may be shocked). Enjoy!

QT9__e75GGw


Much Love always :hug:

I took time to watch the whole of his video and Im glad I did
I did not get where he was going at first and THEN!!!
He is a follower of the teaching of Jesus not a follower of religion.
He is talking about Christ consciousness.
Well worth the time to watch.
A good find Dan.
Thanks.
Chris

[truthseekerdan]

Humbled and honored to share some 'esoteric' knowledge to all those that are willing to understand more about themselves, as well as the 'reality' that we all experience collectively.

Bill Donahue is what I would call a mystic of "lost and hidden (http://www.hiddenmeanings.com/)" meanings and knowledge that is now coming up to the surface. The Light is coming out of the darkness. As we all know here, the "knowledge is power (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/robinmorga271953.html)", and with "great power comes great responsibility (http://bible.cc/luke/12-48.htm)".

Enjoy another video from Bill Donahue (http://www.youtube.com/user/bdona4556/) below, and if you click on his name, there is a link to his youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/bdona4556/) as well.

ovZasQFsHlE

[truthseekerdan]

This will be my last post at Avalon -- at least for awhile... :pray:
So everybody visiting here, please enjoy another 'gem' video :)

Who Started Religion
jBVca4VWRxE

Much Love and a New Prosperous Year 2013 to All ! :hug:

[greybeard]

Thought for today

Everything happens for a reason-- the whole Universe brings all things about, there are no accidents, God doesn’t get things wrong. Those are quotations from several teachers.

The moment a commitment to spiritual progress is made all hell lets loose.
Life times of Karma has to be released in a short period of time just now.

Eckhart Tolle said its like living three life times in one go.

So everything I ever did to anyone has to be experienced, even the things done without any malicious intent.
I can see that every relationship I have had/ have, brought me face to face with previous "shortcomings".
So this will carry on till all karma is released.
Its the same for all seekers just now--- Im just fortunate enough to be aware of what is happening.
That makes it easier.

Watching the film The Kid, Bruce Willis--- himself as a child comes back to teach him lessons as does himself from the future
So he has to help the kid from the past change things.
Happy ending---good film.
So there you go.

Chris

[Jenci]

Watching the film The Kid, Bruce Willis--- himself as a child comes back to teach him lessons as does himself from the future
So he has to help the kid from the past change things.
Happy ending---good film.
So there you go.



I heard a line in the kids' movie Rango the other day about the importance of enlightenment and he said "without it, you are nothing"



:cool:


Jeanette

[greybeard]

Drunvalo Melchizedek - The pole shift 2012 - By Pablo Arellano



Published on 14 Dec 2012

Drunvalo Melchizedek - The pole shift 2012 - By Pablo Arellano
Drunvalo is the author of five books including The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, Volumes I & II, Living in the Heart, Serpent of Light and his newest one, The Mayan Ouroboros. These books have been published in 29 languages and reach out to over one hundred countries throughout the world.

He has been on television and the Internet, and written about in magazines, newspapers and books all over the world.

Having left the United States over 280 times, Drunvalo is a world traveler helping people understand their intimate connection to God.

Drunvalo is the first person in the world (in modern times) to mathematically and geometrically define the human light body called in ancient times the Mer-Ka-Ba.

He is a consultant for the international Internet magazine, Spirit of Maat, with over 1 million viewers each year.

He is the founder of the Flower of Life Facilitators that have been teaching his work in over 60 countries.

He has now founded his newest (and complete) teaching in a facility called School of Remembering with the Awakening the Illuminated Heart Teachers who are beginning their global work. Recently the school exceeded 1000 live workshops held worldwide with an average of almost 3 a day added to the calendar.

Drunvalo graduated from the University of California at Berkeley with a degree in fine arts. He also has a minor in physics and math with only one quarter to finish his degree.

He lives in Sedona, Arizona with his loving wife Claudette. He has six grandchildren.




Close to the end he speaks of the illusion that we bring reality to---there is nothing out there.
Just one consciousness---and you are that.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiDXGTq-xs0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiDXGTq-xs0

[greybeard]

Chaos to Coherence Webinar with Howard Martin and Gregg Braden. To find out more about HeartMath click here: http://www.heartmath.com/ and the Global Coherence Initiative click here: www.glcoherence.org/

Chris




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8w8KBf-Wzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8w8KBf-Wzo

[greybeard]

A New Beginning----2012 ---Crossing Over.
The title really says it.
Thanks to Dan for pointing to this video
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfYHAV1i8w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfYHAV1i8w

[greybeard]

Awakening Adyashanti interview Conscious TV
Adya studied with two Zen Masters before a two fold awakening.
He has been teaching for many years now and quite a few of his students have awakened fully.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lUTF8n_WJko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lUTF8n_WJko

[greybeard]

Hatch or become an omlette Mooji


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFzW2C2za8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFzW2C2za8

[Jenci]

Awakening Adyashanti interview Conscious TV
Adya studied with two Zen Masters before a two fold awakening.
He has been teaching for many years now and quite a few of his students have awakened fully.
Chris



Adya has a new book available on a pdf here http://www.adyashanti.org/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf



Hatch or become an omlette Mooji


...but there is no egg, Chris ;)


Jeanette

[greybeard]

Many thanks Jenci

From the preface

"Be forewarned, applying these teachings
may be damaging to your beliefs, disorienting to your mind, and
distressing to your ego. From the perspective of waking up to
reality these are good things to be cultivated. From the perspec-
tive of ego they are to be avoided at all costs."

I have been warned lol.

[another bob]

Awakening Adyashanti interview Conscious TV
Adya studied with two Zen Masters before a two fold awakening.
He has been teaching for many years now and quite a few of his students have awakened fully.
Chris



Adya has a new book available on a pdf here http://www.adyashanti.org/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf


An excellent tool, and as with any tool, results will depend on its proper use. In this case, one can use it for either de-construction (demolishing one's false ideas and self-images), or construction (adding more stories to an edifice built on sand). Regardless, there are few people speaking today with the clarity and insight of Adyashanti, and this little volume is a good introduction to the inquiry into who and what we are.

:yo:

[Jenci]

Many thanks Jenci

From the preface

"Be forewarned, applying these teachings
may be damaging to your beliefs, disorienting to your mind, and
distressing to your ego. From the perspective of waking up to
reality these are good things to be cultivated. From the perspec-
tive of ego they are to be avoided at all costs."

I have been warned lol.


I've always appreciated Adya's warnings. He doesn't wrap enlightenment/liberation up as a sweet, soft comfort place. Quite the opposite in fact, he talks about the loss that happens.

Whilst we may think that we when embark on this journey into discovering our true nature that we have a choice to do the seeking, there comes a point along the way that the unfolding awakening itself gains such momentum that the individual no longer gets the choice whether to continue with the process, even if loss and destruction they are experiencing are unwelcome. It's like a river rushing back to its source.

As we transform in the process we realise that we don't get to cherry pick our habits, traits, personalities and interests and get to keep the ones we find desirable and get rid of undesireable so we can become the transformed person we would like. Our undesireable stuff does leave us but with it so goes much of the desirable stuff that made us the person we were.

Liberation/enlightenment is the end of the individual. So warnings are appropriate for those choosing to embark on this type of seeking.


Although in the end it will be realised that the choice and the seeking were just an illusion .....because there never was an individual there to do it anyway. But seeing that may take some time and a lot of work to remove the obstacles which obscure the truth.


Jeanette

[greybeard]

Thanks Jeanette
Resistance is futile---at a certain point if you put the brakes on it just causes friction and suffering intensifies--- after all I did ask for it.
Dreamers have no sense of reality and will therefore volunteer for anything. Poor boy.
Going to watch "Dancing on Ice" now--- makes a change from skating on thin ice which I seem prone to do.

Chris

[Ultima Thule]

Ego, what it is and how to transcend it?

Actually I have only one thing to share, concerning the title of the thread. A personal experience, I guess it might be of value to this thread - although things I share might have very well been gone over in those last 94 pages several times from several different points of view.

Ego, what is it? One day I had to admit that me and my capabilites as an individual are not nearly enough to get me through my life and the obstacles in it and that led me to accept my own inner connection to unity, guardian angel, source, what ever it is that you call it. It occurred to me that the ego, which I figure was the one doing the admitting, admitted something eternal, omnipotent to step in me - to do the very job, it(the ego) was trying to do to the best of its abilities. The ego therefore tries to be eternal and omnipotent, because the thing it is trying to fill in for, is those very things. Once one admits the eternal to step in, the ego can go about it´s usual business and be very good at it.

UT

[greybeard]

Ego, what it is and how to transcend it?

Actually I have only one thing to share, concerning the title of the thread. A personal experience, I guess it might be of value to this thread - although things I share might have very well been gone over in those last 94 pages several times from several different points of view.

Ego, what is it? One day I had to admit that me and my capabilites as an individual are not nearly enough to get me through my life and the obstacles in it and that led me to accept my own inner connection to unity, guardian angel, source, what ever it is that you call it. It occurred to me that the ego, which I figure was the one doing the admitting, admitted something eternal, omnipotent to step in me - to do the very job, it(the ego) was trying to do to the best of its abilities. The ego therefore tries to be eternal and omnipotent, because the thing it is trying to fill in for, is those very things. Once one admits the eternal to step in, the ego can go about it´s usual business and be very good at it.

UT
HI UT thanks for your post which is valued.
Every experience helps to clarify understanding.
When the me/ego steps aside, or recognises its limitations, difficult situations can be resolved effortlessly.

Chris

[Jenci]

Thanks Jeanette
Resistance is futile---at a certain point if you put the brakes on it just causes friction and suffering intensifies-
Chris


In the end resistance gets too painful and you just let go and allow what needs to happen, happen. Very often it is things which are undesirable because these are what you have been avoiding all your life. Everything needs to be experienced as it is without any resisting or grasping (which is ego activity)


Jeanette

[another bob]

Thanks Jeanette
Resistance is futile---at a certain point if you put the brakes on it just causes friction and suffering intensifies-
Chris


In the end resistance gets too painful and you just let go and allow what needs to happen, happen. Very often it is things which are undesirable because these are what you have been avoiding all your life. Everything needs to be experienced as it is without any resisting or grasping (which is ego activity)


Jeanette

Great point, Jen, and this can even be seen in getting over physical disease. For example, many try to suppress symptoms, when in fact what's needed is to let the toxins discharge from the body, rather than keeping them from manifesting through the use of symptomatic allopathic remedies, which usually only prolong the disease.

[Jenci]

Thanks Jeanette
Resistance is futile---at a certain point if you put the brakes on it just causes friction and suffering intensifies-
Chris


In the end resistance gets too painful and you just let go and allow what needs to happen, happen. Very often it is things which are undesirable because these are what you have been avoiding all your life. Everything needs to be experienced as it is without any resisting or grasping (which is ego activity)


Jeanette

Great point, Jen, and this can even be seen in getting over physical disease. For example, many try to suppress symptoms, when in fact what's needed is to let the toxins discharge from the body, rather than keeping them from manifesting through the use of symptomatic allopathic remedies, which usually only prolong the disease.


Enlightenment/liberation is not the same as a spiritual experience. An experience will come and go or have a beginning or an end. Enlightenment is a permanent awakening to our true nature where no remnants of illusion remain.

This very rarely happens instantly. It is usually a process of the initial awakening itself reaching into all parts of the illusion which are hiding in the individual and to do that the awakening has to bring everything out in the open, fully penetrate all of the illusion, see through it and dissolve it.

It is a good comparison to make, Bob....very much like toxins being discharged from the body in physical illness.


Jeanette

[another bob]

It is usually a process of the initial awakening itself reaching into all parts of the illusion which are hiding in the individual and to do that the awakening has to bring everything out in the open, fully penetrate all of the illusion, see through it and dissolve it.

Right, the more we awaken, the more we get to see just why we resisted waking up in the first place. It is usually quite humbling to recognize that all our previous knowledge and self-images are pure illusion. Often, the aspirant will just rush back to a "safe" program, after peering into the abyss, but that doesn't work anymore, as they discover. No place to hide, no remedy, but to just face facts. As Sri Niz notes, only hard facts can reveal the complete nothingness of the self-image.


http://www.pbase.com/1heart/image/132842465

[greybeard]

One of the challenges is that through following and applying spiritual teachings life becomes very easy-- compare to what went on before-- so the temptation is to just rest a while there.
However at some point the backside gets kicked and enough is not enough and for once that is good.
Once you make a commitment to find the Truth the end result is inevitable--it is your destiny and it pulls hard-- nothing short of knowing That, as opposed to experiencing something, is acceptable.

Chris

[Fred Steeves]

One of the challenges is that through following and applying spiritual teachings life becomes very easy-- compare to what went on before-- so the temptation is to just rest a while there.


Haven't really experienced that yet Chris, as I get a swift kick in the rear just temporarily stepping off the path for a quick wee in the bushes...http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/nod.gif Time to contact my union representative.(LOL)

[greybeard]

Union rep ha Fred-- Yoga rep = Union.
My mind makes strange leaps to connect that which is already connected.
If you can follow that you as crazy as me.
Good to see you here

Chris

[another bob]

One of the challenges is that through following and applying spiritual teachings life becomes very easy-- compare to what went on before-- so the temptation is to just rest a while there.


Haven't really experienced that yet Chris, as I get a swift kick in the rear just temporarily stepping off the path for a quick wee in the bushes...http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/nod.gif Time to contact my union representative.(LOL)

Quick story: Knew a guy back East about 1993, a parolee, who was trying to get his life back in line. Anyway, got a job as a trucker, and while out on a delivery, developed a full bladder and since he was nowhere near a rest stop, pulled over to use the bushes on the side of the road. Cop comes along, busts him for indecency, and so back to the Big House he goes, for parole violation.

[Fred Steeves]

Quick story: Knew a guy back East about 1993, a parolee, who was trying to get his life back in line. Anyway, got a job as a trucker, and while out on a delivery, developed a full bladder and since he was nowhere near a rest stop, pulled over to use the bushes on the side of the road. Cop comes along, busts him for indecency, and so back to the Big House he goes, for parole violation.

And let me guess Bob, at the moment of arrest he became enlightened, like in the old cutting off of fingers and arms Zen stories I remember Alan Watts telling? :p

[AwakeInADream]

It's times like that an empty water bottle comes in handy,
it seems the system is designed to keep a man down.:(

[another bob]

Quick story: Knew a guy back East about 1993, a parolee, who was trying to get his life back in line. Anyway, got a job as a trucker, and while out on a delivery, developed a full bladder and since he was nowhere near a rest stop, pulled over to use the bushes on the side of the road. Cop comes along, busts him for indecency, and so back to the Big House he goes, for parole violation.

And let me guess Bob, at the moment of arrest he became enlightened, like in the old cutting off of fingers and arms Zen stories I remember Alan Watts telling? :p


Well, synchronistically, and since we're on the topic, and since Alan Watts was a Brit:

pissed [pɪst]
adj
1. Brit, Austral, and NZ slang intoxicated; drunk

Alan died of liver failure, having spent a good portion of his latter days, "pissed"

AFAIK, neither he nor the trucker attained anything but the ripening/fruition of certain causes and conditions.

:yo:

¤=[Post Update]=¤


It's times like that an empty water bottle comes in handy(

I used to do a fair bit of travelling, and wouldn't leave home without one tucked under the seat.

[Fred Steeves]

It's times like that an empty water bottle comes in handy

I used to do a fair bit of travelling, and wouldn't leave home without one tucked under the seat.

I still do, a gallon milk jug. (LOL) And sorry for this little derailment Chris...http://nexusnow.info/forum/images/smilies/behindsofa.gif

[greybeard]

Derailment is to be preferred to stagnation Fred.
Anything that brings good positive energy to the thread is welcomed.

Now when you want enlightenment as much as you wanted that pee--- it will happen.

Chris

[Fred Steeves]

Derailment is to be preferred to stagnation Fred.
Anything that brings good positive energy to the thread is welcomed.

Now when you want enlightenment as much as you wanted that pee--- it will happen.

Chris

Thanks for the good deep belly laugh Chris, that's always most welcome my friend! Which of course not so coincidentially brings to mind: Do we ever feel more truly free, as when we are laughing? Tears of joy come to mind, as well as to the corners of my eyes just now thinking about it.

[greybeard]

The hardware of the computer is unaffected by the software.
That's from a talk by David Hawkins

Basically he is saying that the self is innocent but runs programmed by software (conditioning etc)
Garbage in garbage out.
So the more time we spend with that which is uplifting the better.

Fly with the crows you get shot with the crows. (AA saying)

There a lot of one liners which say a lot.
That might make a good thread.
Chris

[ROMANWKT]

Hi Chris hope all is well,

Now we can spend the next 40 years of replacing the garbage , or we can remove the emotion behind the garbage which is the glue behind the garbage belief, so if we remove the emotion glue of the garbage by releasing and clearing it out of our system, then it makes it easy to replace the garbage with new garbage.

As always your friend, roman.

[Jenci]

Thanks for the good deep belly laugh Chris, that's always most welcome my friend! Which of course not so coincidentially brings to mind: Do we ever feel more truly free, as when we are laughing? Tears of joy come to mind, as well as to the corners of my eyes just now thinking about it.


All of the illusion has to be investigated and seen through so this is a good place to inquire. "Do we ever feel more truly free as when we are laughing?"

This freedom, which there is more of when we are laughing, is the ego feeling freedom and not the freedom we are talking about in terms of enlightenment/liberation.

When there is the thought that "I feel more free" when I am laughing it is immediately bound (opposite of free) to the idea that I feel less free when I am not laughing. This is natural for the ego as its nature is a movement of grasping and resisting. It seeks pleasure and avoids pain and it equates the desirable feel-good sensation of laughing with freedom.

True freedom is not changeable. You don't feel it more or less. It is immoveable and it is found exactly the same, in every single moment. It is present equally the same in the pain, the anger, the fear, the despair as it is in the laughter and happiness.

It's an important distinction to make because unless the illusion of the ego's "freedom" is seen through it will continue to obscure the truth. As Bob made the point, it is hard facts which are needed to reveal the truth. Resistance to this type of inquiry is quite normal until it is seen that the resistance itself is futile, as we have just been discussing here in the last few posts.

When that happens we are willing to question every single thought or belief and be prepared to discard all that shows itself to be ego and illusion, however shattering it is to the sense of self.

Life then takes on new direction as painful moments in life are seen as no different that the good moments and everything is faced with equal openness and availability.

Jeanette

[Fred Steeves]

Well see, this is why I seldom drop by the enlightenment thread, it gets too complicated. (LOL) I'll leave enlightenment to the experts. :)

[Jenci]

Well see, this is why I seldom drop by the enlightenment thread, it gets too complicated. (LOL) I'll leave enlightenment to the experts. :)


I wouldn't say complicated, Fred but this thread is very specific and not vague in terms about what is discussed, that's for sure - in terms of transcendence of the ego and the practice to do that.

It's probably off putting to many people because of that but I think Chris has done well to keep this thread going for so long with so few participating. :)

Jeanette

[greybeard]

Thank Jeanette.
The thread sometimes wanders off into deep philosophy but cheerfulness keeps breaking though.
There has been a progression over the years this thread has existed, so even some one new to the subject can find relevant material in the early posts.
The ego wants to find something new and up to date but every page of this thread is up to date because Truth is eternal.
There are posts/videos suitable for every level of understanding.

Its not my thread I just started it.
It belongs to all who visit and contribute, without whom my enthusiasm for posting videos etc on enlightenment and parallel subjects would have died a death long ago.

The man made the dream and the dream made the man.

I grow in understanding with the thread and the contributions of others which I value greatly.

Much love Chris

[greybeard]

EXOTIC India

JANUARY 2013
ARTICLE OF THE MONTH



From Helpless to Wise: The Evolution of a Devotee





The Bhagavad Gita, in one verse, clearly outlines the evolution of a devotee (Bhakta), blessed with the grace of God.



Krishna says:



"Four types of virtuous devotees worship me: the distressed; the seekers of wealth; the one who seeks knowledge of God; and the Jnani (wise)." (Gita7.16)



The first level, that of a distressed person, suggests an individual who has never yet given a serious thought to God. At some juncture in his life, he undergoes a tremendous amount of suffering. This is a result of his or her previous Karma. However, he tries to alleviate his suffering by performing even more Karma. During this process, at some stage he realizes: "I am helpless; there is nothing more I can do. The situation cannot be retrieved."



This makes him cry out in distress: "Oh God save me." He prays to God to forgive all his wrong-doings. He who till now, had never given any thought or attention to God, in this hour of extreme distress, continuously prays to Him.



Then what happens? Because of this continuance remembrance of God, his reservoir of accumulated sins begins shrinking. As this happens, his suffering too loses momentum and starts decreasing. That makes him thank God saying: "O! God, I prayed to you and received your blessings. Thus my suffering was reduced. Thank You. However, there is still some suffering left. Please remove that too."



Gradually, his distress is lessened even more, until finally the suffering in question totally vanishes. Relieved of his incumbent suffering, what does such a devotee do next? He prays for even more: "O! God, I am living in a rented house right now. Please give me a house of my own." Observing that God is doing him well, he is emboldened to ask for more. By doing so he evolves into the second stage, that of a seeker of wealth. As he thus prays to God, his virtue (Punya) increases. At some time he is able to acquire a house.



What does he do next? He addresses God as following: "Thank You God. However, do remember that I have two sons. Therefore, I need one more house." He continues to pray in this manner. This act of worship further diminishes his accumulated sins and increases his store of virtues. Thus, he makes further gains in happiness (Sukha) and is able to acquire another house. In this level the Bhakta continues to ask from God and has all his desires fulfilled.



Now that he has all he wanted, there seems to be no need for God, and he forgets Him. Once he forgets God, even though on the surface everything appears jolly and fine, his reservoir of sins begins to rise. As the sins consequently accumulate, his Sukha starts diminishing, and he falls again into suffering and distress. We can observe this in powerful and affluent clans, intoxicated with their own power, losing it all within two or three generations.



Therefore, from the second stage, he descends back into the first, becoming a distressed Bhakta once again: the one who remembers God only at the time of suffering. There, because of his distress, he again remembers God and thus the whole cycle begins anew. This happens again and again, and he continues to oscillate between the two stages.



Despite this however, if at some point in his life, whether in this birth or previous ones, he has performed even an iota of Nishkama-Karma (action without desiring its fruit), maybe even given one rupee to someone without expecting anything in return, this selfless deed is bound to bear fruit sooner or later. The fruit of Nishkama Karma manifests itself in this manner: As the devotee oscillates between these two stages, a spark of divine inspiration is ignited in his heart, which makes him think thus: "Whenever I cry out, God restores and replenishes me. Then after some time, I am again at a loss, and then fulfilled again. What meaningless exercise is this?"



This ignition sets his thought engine rolling in the correct direction: "Who is this supremely powerful God? I have never seen Him, but He is performing such extraordinary feats." This is the seeker hankering after the knowledge of God, the third stage in the evolution of a Bhakta.



Thus alternating from distress to seeking prosperity, he is finally jolted by divine inspiration to see the futility of it all and become a seeker of knowledge. The third stage Bhakta starts by asking the correct questions: "Why have I taken birth? What is the purpose behind this world?" and so on. These are true marks of a seeker hankering after knowledge. Thus is his life fundamentally altered.



Such a seeker realizes that there is nobody in this world who is constantly happy, nor anyone who is always unhappy. These things take place in cycles and happen to everybody. He understands that the only important issue is whether one is spiritually progressing or not. Once he is at this level, there is no going back or falling down for the Bhakta. He continues to get to hear from great saints answers to his queries, and is all the time inspired to perform more and more purer forms of Karma, especially Nishkama Karma. Consequently, his inner self gets more and more cleansed, and he is able to concentrate for longer durations on God, enabling him to meditate. By sustained practice he finally becomes a Jnani (wise/knowledgeable), one who can remain in constant communion with the Supreme Soul. This is the fourth stage of a Bhakta.


The Jnani Bhakta is Dearest to God



Lord Krishna says in the next verse:



"Out of these four, it is the Jnani who stands out and is dearest to me, and I dearest to him. This is because he is devoted exclusively to me only, and is in constant communion with me." (7.17)



As such a devotee has his mind constantly on God, the latter too has him constantly under his gaze (Gita 4.11). This is why the devotee at the third level never falls, because he is always under the protective gaze of God. Though his previous Samskaras may sometimes take the Jnani Bhakta on the path of wrong Karma, no sooner does he start off, God, who is seated inside his heart, draws him back, inspiring him to reflect on the incorrectness of the action he was about to undertake.



Like the small child, whose exclusive devotion to her compels his mother to forever keep him under her protective arms; and drop everything to rush to his defence whenever he takes a false step, God too does the same for those who reserve their Bhakti only for Him and none other in this world.



This article is based almost entirely on the teachings of Param Pujya Swami Paramanand Bharati Ji. However, any errors are entirely the author's own.





http://uk.mg40.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=717a6m9g4mg7q#mail

[another bob]

Well see, this is why I seldom drop by the enlightenment thread, it gets too complicated. (LOL) I'll leave enlightenment to the experts. :)

Well, I'd say Jen makes a good point. Think about it, Fred -- it's not really that complicated. For example, what kind of freedom is dependent on temporary emotionally reactive states, be it generated by humor or sadness, tears or laughter? Laughter itself is a conditioned response, based on interpretation on perception. Attaching some sense of freedom to it is purely arbitrary, and has no actual basis in reality.

Certainly, recognizing in a flash of insight the total fraud that one's cherished self-images have amounted to, may provoke laughter, but that is still a reaction, and not a marker of freedom, anymore than tears or indifference would be, for that matter.

Freedom has nothing to do with any particular emotional or conceptual or physical state, though they all may arise in the midst of it. Awake-ness is not a conditional state, a reaction, a feeling, a thought, or any interpretation, since all of that is transient -- in other words, mere modifications of consciousness.

Awake-ness, which is awareness, is prior to all states, all forms of identity, all personal flags and propositions, all perception as well as conception. It persists in the midst of both laughter and tears, but is not dependent or coincident on the arising or dissolving of either.

[greybeard]

The challenge is that it is very easy to miss understand spiritual truth.
Renunciation for example does not mean ascetic or doing without, it means letting go of desire.

So in attempt to be accurate the explanation can become quite verbose with very "accurate" language to nail it.
Never the less the truth is simple
You are That!!! the ego stands between you and that self knowledge.
Transcend or still the ego and That stands forth illumined.

Good definition of expert

Has been drip under pressure Translation "Ex spurt"


Chris

[Mark]

Hey everybody.

Good to see folks, it has been a while.

I'll share where I"m at right now on the process of enlightenment.

It's a choice.

Emotions are familiar and easy. Habits and popular life-patterns are too. Life programs us to display these patterns in solidarity with the human condition. Going beyond to seek enlightenment takes one out of the mainstream. It's unfamiliar and takes one into higher realms of being where human companionship seems to mean much less from the observer's perspective.

At a certain point in the process, after undergoing individual enlightenment experiences, one's emotivity point shifts and becomes universal rather than particular. This 'releases' one from the patriarchal and cultural limitations of romantic love and emotional attachment/symbiosis/parasitism/vampirism-interpreted-as-love, but also puts them in a position to be perceived as unfeeling or unemotional to those witnessing its apparent effects. Nothing could be further from the truth as their level of compassion and love for humanity, gratitude and humility as recognition of solidarity, leads to the birth of an all encompassing empathic resonance with all of life.

Yet this becomes nigh impossible to explain to folks unless you have days or weeks or years to do so for those who have never considered such as being possible or know anything about spirituality other than the simplistic grade-school renditions of organized religion.

So that's fine.

Everybody is where they are at and it's all good. I no longer find it necessary to preach or even teach. If someone appears in my life with a need of information then I will happily supply it up to the exact point of fully answering their question and NO MORE.

That seems to be an imposition upon their free will to me.

It's funny because I've been thrust into a situation currently where I'm surrounded by individuals who are consumed by lower chakra desires and recreational pleasures, and yet interested in such things as those we speak on at the very basic level, but they have no other apparent opportunity to learn about them except through me. I'm a bit bemused by the situation, wondering how and why I was placed in this position and if I'm really supposed to reach out to help these folks gain knowledge or is it just a living reminder of where I used to be and the kind of people I used to hang around constantly.

Ah well. Hope all of YOU are well and blessed. :wave:

[greybeard]

Good to see you Rahkty.
I can identify with your post my friend and it can make life quite difficult when people see an agenda where there is none.
The love for the checkout person is the same as for my children though push comes to shove I have a sense of responsibility for them.
All are my family but I would not choose to spend time with everyone I meet.
It al happens of its self.

Chris

[Mark]

Yes, Chris. It is that sense of responsibility that remains one of the last 'ties' that connect us individually with the world, it seems.

I am grateful for mine, I recognize and accept them as destined relationships that I am blessed to have made and honor. After some years of struggle and incomprehension, my family is finally beginning to understand a bit about the path I follow, and even my strange way of showing affection is appreciated for what it is. I attribute this to the general awakening energy that has been bombarding the planet, which has affected my immediate family in amazing ways, as even within the constraints of societal mores, there is a recognition of the validity of that which lies beyond, as well as an understanding that truth is not limited or sectarian in nature.

It's funny sometimes how we end up spending time with folks whom we might never have chosen to spend time with. LOL

Guess that's life, eh?

[greybeard]

My life will fall apart without thinking

Eckhart helps us overcome a common assumption.

Thanks to Dan for sending me this.

Chris





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c78svZaKRRo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c78svZaKRRo

[greybeard]

Video removed due to non availability

Chris

[Jenci]

his 'releases' one from the patriarchal and cultural limitations of romantic love and emotional attachment/symbiosis/parasitism/vampirism-interpreted-as-love, but also puts them in a position to be perceived as unfeeling or unemotional to those witnessing its apparent effects. Nothing could be further from the truth as their level of compassion and love for humanity, gratitude and humility as recognition of solidarity, leads to the birth of an all encompassing empathic resonance with all of life.


Yes ! It's never how you expect it to be and this is confusing for people see the results and effects.

When people hear about the unconditional love that is the One, they can only relate that in terms of the love that they know, which is not unconditional but conditioned and bound. It's dependent on the object of the love being in a certain way. Even when they think love is unconditional as in the love of a parent for child, it is still on the condition that the child is "mine", therefore conditional.

The unconditional love that we are is beyond all concepts and ideas of love and is to be experienced to be understood.


Good to see you Rahkyt. Thanks for sharing where you are at.
Jeanette

[greybeard]

Drunvalo there is only one consciousness.
This is an amazing video which was recorded 2008.
A lot of interesting information in this.
For me its a may be so.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYwBgIiDZ4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYwBgIiDZ4c

[greybeard]

Adyashanti interview
A lot of information in it.
Well worth a read
Chris



http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/384/who_hears_this_sound?page=1

[greybeard]

Neale Donald Walsh interviewed by Eckhart Tolle

Very interesting

Many thanks to Dan who sent me the link.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFr3OvPdpb8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFr3OvPdpb8

[Jenci]

Adyashanti interview
A lot of information in it.
Well worth a read
Chris



http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/384/who_hears_this_sound?page=1



Thanks, Chris.

From the article



But on that evening, what struck me most, beyond his words, was his presence between the words. Sometimes he’d pause for a few seconds and close his eyes. His face would become tranquil, and the room would swell with silence.

Beautifully described and something which really strikes me about Adya every time I listen to him.

On this subject words fall short every time. I read what I have written and although I could say it is true on one hand, on the other I could say it falls so short of the truth it's unbelieveable, lol

I much prefer the silence and I see why some teachers teach/taught in silence. Having said that without the words some will never be able to get a sense of what this is about.


Some ramblings for the day :)

Jeanette

[greybeard]

Reincarnation.

Gerry Rafferty a Scottish Song writer wrote this song
the words are great

Get It Right Next Time
Gerry Rafferty


G C G
Out on the street I was talkin' to a man
G C F Bb G FG
He said "there's so much of this life of mine that I don't understand"

G C G
You shouldn't worry I said that ain't no crime
G C F Bb G F G
Cause if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time, next time.

You need direction, yeah you need a name
When you're standing in the crossroads every highway looks the same
After a while you can recognize the signs
So if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time, next time.

Life is a liar yeah life is a cheat
It'll lead you on and pull the ground from underneath your feet
No use complainin', don't you worry, don't you whine
Cause if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time, next time.

You gotta grow, you gotta learn by your mistakes
You gotta die a little everyday just to try to stay awake
When you believe there's no mountain you can climb
And if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time, next time.

Next time, u-hum


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXW-sL5gzHQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXW-sL5gzHQ

[greybeard]

Dr Wayne Dyer's Leukemia & John of God's healings on Wayne - LILOU'S JUICY LIVING TOUR .

Thanks to Dan for sending this to me

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzCy5B_1QpM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzCy5B_1QpM

[greybeard]

From the late Dr Hawkins last book
Letting Go is

Transformational...


"Although letting go seems simple and easy, its ultimate effects are profoundly powerful. A quick little surrender done in an almost off-handed manner can sometimes bring about a major change in our life. We can picture it being similar to the wheel of a ship. If we make a one degree change in the ship’s compass, we will notice very little difference; but, as the ship sails over the sea hour after hour, day after day, a one degree change in the compass will end up taking us to a very different place many miles from where the original course would have take us.”

~Letting Go, page 237


Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender

[greybeard]

Latest Dolores Cannon
As usual a lot of ground covered.
Karma, lessons, this is a school we need to graduate from, past lives.
What greater test than to be all alone? The ignorance that we are separate from God.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucn3Xswv4Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucn3Xswv4Q

[greybeard]

Nanci Danison
Near Death Experience of a Lawyer
Very detailed a lot of information.
God being formless became us/ the totality in order to experience that which formless cant.
We never left God---- The Indians called this Indras Dream or Maya---illusion.
Very real for all that

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzhzN2NUDE

[greybeard]

Jeff Foster Conscious TV interview.

On the who's who list of spiritual teacher

The waves are the ocean


http://bcove.me/p681498e


http://bcove.me/p681498e

[another bob]

EYrHNXqbRfY

[Beren]

Bob, are you another bob, or Bob?
Are you the same Bob that was born some decades ago or you're another bob now?

What made you to become an another bob?
Instead of being just Bob ...?

I saw that Chris became greybeard (even literary) :)

What made you transcend your own ego?
When was that divine spark- to finally do it and bring all this beauty you bring along with Chris and many here like Jenci and Dan ...and many others good souls each!

[another bob]

Bob, are you another bob, or Bob?
Are you the same Bob that was born some decades ago or you're another bob now?

What made you to become an another bob?
Instead of being just Bob ...?


Well, my Friend, I tried using "Bob" as my name when I subscribed here, but that name was taken already, so I tried "Another Bob" and that was available so I took it.




What made you transcend your own ego?

I wouldn't think of such a silly thing -- as long as I'm here, the ego comes in darn handy! ;)

Actually, many tend to mistake the ego for an entity, while in a more accurate sense it is more like an activity -- the activity of grasping and avoidance, which in turn creates the sense of a separate self, a "me". However, when we cease granting that character any enduring substance, by recognizing the activity when it arises and refusing to fuel it, it does begin to wither, and will eventually become obsolete.



When was that divine spark- to finally do it and bring all this beauty you bring along with Chris and many here like Jenci and Dan ...and many others good souls each!

Every step of the way, the "spark" has been only Love.

As for "when", I offer some biographical fragments in my blog "Travels in Dreamland". For example, here's an entry from yesterday:

http://travelsindreamland.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/grace-via-murti/

Blessings!

[greybeard]

Its a "single minded" sort of thread and because of that it is a safe place to post.
To the best of my memory there has never been friction on the thread---many varying points of view---some simple, some complex, harmony/mutual,respect is the very essence of this thread.

Im fortunate to have friends of the quality of Beren --whom I had the pleasure of spending time with in Inverness and of course Bob and Jenci who contribute regularly. Truth seeker Dan has left Avalon but we are still in contact.

Chris

[Mark]

I like Dan's perspective. He'd make a great Guru. :)

[another bob]

...harmony/mutual respect is the very essence of this thread.

Here's an elaboration of a post I made on another recent thread, that ties in with that orientation:


To study the world is to study ourselves. When we begin to sincerely study ourselves, what we usually discover is that this involves a challenging process of working with our embedded viewpoints. Indeed, the closer we look in the mirror, the more we must acknowledge that most of our viewpoints, attitudes, opinions, assumptions, interpretations on perceptions, and general sense about things have remained largely uninspected. It’s usually easier to “just go along” with what we’ve been told by our parents, teachers, and clergy, and later by our bosses, politicians, and main stream media.

As a rule, we have been well-conditioned to accept the consensus program and description of reality, and short of some life crisis, are rarely motivated to question the “party line”. In fact, it’s a bit scary to do so, because we are typically herd animals, and so questioning the common view of things threatens our basic sense of security.

It is not uncommon to hear folks complain that they wish they had never peered behind the curtain, because now they can’t go back to the old safe and secure view they enjoyed prior, and hence the well-worn phrase, “Ignorance is bliss.”

At a certain point, we may come to recognize that no viewpoint arising in the human mind is ultimate or lasting, and that there is no final truth that we can grasp as an object of consciousness. Rather, we may come to discover that this whole realm is an utterly subjective experience.

As we explore even deeper, we may come to learn that we are not really here to become “enlightened” knowers of it, or judges of it, but more to be participants or co-creators of its evolution, in order that consciousness itself can become more self-aware.

We certainly can and do know about all sorts of stuff, but we do not really know what any single thing is –what it is. Consequently, whether we like it or not, and despite any comforting lies we might tell ourselves, we do live in a state of total insecurity — the Unknown.

How we respond to living in the Unknown, and all that implies, says everything about us. Will we cower or will we shine, will we love or will we fear? Will we cling to the safety of what we thought we knew, or throw ourselves completely into the vastness of our unbound, infinite nature, without trying to grasp or avoid, without trying to claim ground or establish some provisional self-image in need of protection and defense?

With some careful investigation, one thing we can observe is that, the more we get trapped in fixated views, the more we squeeze off the life force, crimping the flow, and so prevent true spontaneity.

In terms of consciously assessing differing angles of vision, we can simply recognize that our own is just a temporary viewpoint — that it is not who we are, that this viewpoint has arisen in this particular circumstance through an interdependent series of causes, and though we may have some resonance with it, it’s not the absolute truth. It’s just a viewpoint.

We need not be drawn into emotional reactivity based on our conceptual investments, but can stand apart and see them for what they are – passing waves of non-binding thought energy that merely serve to modify consciousness.

We can then understand that any position is just a position in mind — a viewpoint that comes from a play of causes and conditions — and so train ourselves in our daily lives to recognize our viewpoints for what they are.

Such capacity, once stabilized, can make a tremendous difference in how we live. When we don’t try to protect or justify our viewpoints, a palpable freedom and spaciousness opens before us, along with the real possibility for tolerance, peace, and happiness to manifest in our lives and relationships.


http://theconsciousprocess.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/points-of-view/

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I like Dan's perspective. He'd make a great Guru. :)

Humor is essential in any real awakening, eh.

Blessings!

[greybeard]

Its good to see AwakeInaDream and Rahkty relatively new posters on the thread appearing.
I really welcome fresh perspective on the thread--- this keeps it alive and vibrant.

Chris

[Mark]

Thanks Greybeard. May I ask, is there a reason why you always call me Rahkty? I had an east Indian brother who, when I first met him, wrote me to ask me why I had chosen the moniker of an Indian demon, and I'm wondering if your spelling of my screen name has to do with that? I can't find a reference to it now, but I think he spelled it Rahkty also, just like you do. Not complaining or anything, it's fine, just genuinely curious. :)

This thread always has good resources in it. I come here to watch videos and to bask in the continuously positive spiritual energy it puts out.

I wrote a week or so ago where I was, in regards to the whole enlightenment thing. Things have not changed for me, which is why I really appreciated the video that ABob posted with Dan.

Dan's perspective is enlightened, to the extent that it is all about letting go of everything, including even meditation, and just living. I'll bet if Dan just sat down instead of layed down, kept his eyes open instead of closing them, he'd find himself in a state of meditation without even having tried to go there.

With that said, these days, I find myself entering states of meditation just walking. Or sitting. Or even speaking to someone. My mind will clear, no discursiveness, and perception will move to a whole body field-type awareness. It is akin to walking meditation, I suppose. It has been occurring more and more and I expect it to continue, as I find it very comfortable funcitioning in this state, although I am aware that, from the outside, it may seem as if I am 'spacing out' to the extent that my involuntary body movements, ticks and habitual gestures cease, I become pin-point focused and that can be disconcerting to people.

Ah well. It's just life, right? Not to be taken too seriously, just lived.

Bless!

[AwakeInADream]

With that said, these days, I find myself entering states of meditation just walking. Or sitting. Or even speaking to someone. My mind will clear, no discursiveness, and perception will move to a whole body field-type awareness. It is akin to walking meditation, I suppose. It has been occurring more and more and I expect it to continue, as I find it very comfortable funcitioning in this state, although I am aware that, from the outside, it may seem as if I am 'spacing out' to the extent that my involuntary body movements, ticks and habitual gestures cease, I become pin-point focused and that can be disconcerting to people.

Ah well. It's just life, right? Not to be taken too seriously, just lived.

Bless!

I posted this in TraineeHuman's OBE thread, of a recent experience I gave to myself. It seems to fit here with what Rahkyt said about the active meditative experience:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A shortcut to experiencing both your selves, the OB and the conventional, is the following exercise. I’m extremely interested to hear if anybody can learn to do this who isn’t an experienced meditator, or a professional in the arts or sports or some other creative field (who has therefore learnt how to work fluently with their intuition). Anybody who tries and fails -- please feel free to share what you experience.

The exercise – which was invented by the late Barry Long -- has two stages. The first stage is what Tolle calls “feeling the aliveness”.

As Barry described it, the first stage involves firstly getting yourself grounded. (There are many ways to get rounded. One simple way is to sit with your thumb touching your belly button and your hand flat against your belly in such a way that the palm of your hand is over your center of gravity, your second chakra.)

Secondly, ask yourself how it really feels simply to be alive. Tune into that feeling. If you are calm and grounded, it will at the very least be a feeling of OK-ness, if not of profound and peaceful joy.

Once you have gotten used to the first stage, the second stage is to allow that good feeling inside all of you to spread all around you, filling the room you are in. Remember, in post #102 I mentioned how the astral body is really the inner “body”. This exercise involves being aware of that “body” as lying both outside of your physical body and also, at the same time, inside of your physical body, where it always can be found. In other words, it involves expanding your astral body so that you can feel its goodness not only inside but all around you.

I suggest this is an ingenious exercise because it is based on asking the simplest and most basic of all questions, namely, how does it truly, deeply feel just to be alive? Because of the simplicity of that question, the question takes you straight to the core of what Buddhists call your Buddha nature, i.e. your true nature.

Thank's TraineeHuman!:) This is the one:thumb:

I'm just bringing this exercise to the front as it has been very valuable to me, but also I have found it to be adaptable.

You see it's been snowing here in the UK recently, and whilst I was walking in it I noticed how irritated I was becoming. The snow was hitting me in just the right spot in the neck so as to get under my clothes and I was getting very cold and angry at the weather lol!

As I was walking I thought of this exercise, and decided to try it then and there. I suppose that there is nothing more grounding than being blasted by snow, so I moved on to observe how it truly felt to be alive in my body, and to my surprise it still felt quite good even with the snow. Then as I expanded my awareness and this feeling into my surroundings, I felt my perceptions to be totally transformed, even the way I saw the landscape. Of course it took a much more sustained effort to stay like this, but it was worth it.

This exercise is nothing short of mind over matter!

[greybeard]

Thanks Greybeard. May I ask, is there a reason why you always call me Rahkty? I had an east Indian brother who, when I first met him, wrote me to ask me why I had chosen the moniker of an Indian demon, and I'm wondering if your spelling of my screen name has to do with that? I can't find a reference to it now, but I think he spelled it Rahkty also, just like you do. Not complaining or anything, it's fine, just genuinely curious. :)

This thread always has good resources in it. I come here to watch videos and to bask in the continuously positive spiritual energy it puts out.

I wrote a week or so ago where I was, in regards to the whole enlightenment thing. Things have not changed for me, which is why I really appreciated the video that ABob posted with Dan.

Dan's perspective is enlightened, to the extent that it is all about letting go of everything, including even meditation, and just living. I'll bet if Dan just sat down instead of layed down, kept his eyes open instead of closing them, he'd find himself in a state of meditation without even having tried to go there.

With that said, these days, I find myself entering states of meditation just walking. Or sitting. Or even speaking to someone. My mind will clear, no discursiveness, and perception will move to a whole body field-type awareness. It is akin to walking meditation, I suppose. It has been occurring more and more and I expect it to continue, as I find it very comfortable funcitioning in this state, although I am aware that, from the outside, it may seem as if I am 'spacing out' to the extent that my involuntary body movements, ticks and habitual gestures cease, I become pin-point focused and that can be disconcerting to people.

Ah well. It's just life, right? Not to be taken too seriously, just lived.

Bless!

Opps Rahkyt Im dyslexic and though I went back and forward to your name on your post in that mili second yt became ty.
Im glad you enjoy the thread and post---I can identify with shifts in perspective and focus--body awareness.
Please keep posting here----roughly 800 people visit this thread each week and have done for years---so many benefit from every post and there is somthing her for every level of spiritual growth

Regards Chris

[Beren]

Bob, are you another bob, or Bob?
Are you the same Bob that was born some decades ago or you're another bob now?

What made you to become an another bob?
Instead of being just Bob ...?


Well, my Friend, I tried using "Bob" as my name when I subscribed here, but that name was taken already, so I tried "Another Bob" and that was available so I took it.




What made you transcend your own ego?

I wouldn't think of such a silly thing -- as long as I'm here, the ego comes in darn handy! ;)

Actually, many tend to mistake the ego for an entity, while in a more accurate sense it is more like an activity -- the activity of grasping and avoidance, which in turn creates the sense of a separate self, a "me". However, when we cease granting that character any enduring substance, by recognizing the activity when it arises and refusing to fuel it, it does begin to wither, and will eventually become obsolete.



When was that divine spark- to finally do it and bring all this beauty you bring along with Chris and many here like Jenci and Dan ...and many others good souls each!

Every step of the way, the "spark" has been only Love.

As for "when", I offer some biographical fragments in my blog "Travels in Dreamland". For example, here's an entry from yesterday:

http://travelsindreamland.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/grace-via-murti/

Blessings!

bob :)

I was just teasing you :)
But teasing you to provoke a good reply.
It's a sort of a game that awakes deeper gems to enfold out.

Pardon my Gandalfian questioning :)

[Beren]

Rahkyt,

the experience you have upon broad daylight is a profound one. That among else is a Christ's call.
A simple direct connection with yourself's essence ,which is God's spark inside.

[Jenci]

Its a "single minded" sort of thread and because of that it is a safe place to post.
To the best of my memory there has never been friction on the thread---many varying points of view---some simple, some complex, harmony/mutual,respect is the very essence of this thread.

Im fortunate to have friends of the quality of Beren --whom I had the pleasure of spending time with in Inverness and of course Bob and Jenci who contribute regularly. Truth seeker Dan has left Avalon but we are still in contact.

Chris


We can only point at what we are talking about it; that's the closest we can get. The absolute truth is beyond all the right and wrongs.

When we see that, we let go of the struggle and the argument.

I like this thread, too, Chris. Thanks to all.

Jeanette

[Jenci]

With that said, these days, I find myself entering states of meditation just walking. Or sitting. Or even speaking to someone. My mind will clear, no discursiveness, and perception will move to a whole body field-type awareness. It is akin to walking meditation, I suppose. It has been occurring more and more and I expect it to continue, as I find it very comfortable funcitioning in this state, although I am aware that, from the outside, it may seem as if I am 'spacing out' to the extent that my involuntary body movements, ticks and habitual gestures cease, I become pin-point focused and that can be disconcerting to people.


Eventually, the stillness becomes the natural and habitual resting place.

It takes practice though because to the individual identified with their mind, the pull for attention is onto the mind, ever-busy, ever-noisy with incessant thoughts and problems to be solved, running through it.


While it may seem an impossibilty to pay no attention to the mind in the early days, diligence practice pays off. In time, "something" just learns to rest in the stillness. The mind, cut off from its source of energy (attention) clears quickly.

Nisargadatta uses the comparison, to describe this process of change in the mind, between water and honey. Disturb water and the ripples will continue for some time. Disturb honey and it falls still very quickly.

....And then there is the realisation that the stillness is not a state you move in and out of. The stillness is there all the time, regardless of how much noise the mind is making.


Rest in peace :)


Jeanette

[greybeard]

For the intellectual amongst us.
Theodore Usatynski "Instinctual Intelligence/ the evolution of human consciousness" author
interviewed on Conscious TV.
Too deep for me but I can see that many will benefit from this.

This is ultimately an aid to find out what you really are


This is the first part
http://bcove.me/xetis513


http://bcove.me/xetis513

Second part



http://bcove.me/gxc6vjem

http://bcove.me/gxc6vjem

Chris

[greybeard]

The map of consciousness --thanks to Gareth.

The Key to happiness.
A lot in this please click the link.

Chris

http://happy-firewalker.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/dr-david-hawkins-map-of-consciousness.html

[Shin'Ar]

I do realize that this thread has been brought from the old forum, and that it has most likely touched on many facets of self.

I have not read thro9ugh the entirety as it is far too massive.

May I ask if, in this discussion, anyone has commented on the self as being a temporary identification/adoption with the form in which we incarnate?

[Jenci]

I do realize that this thread has been brought from the old forum, and that it has most likely touched on many facets of self.

I have not read thro9ugh the entirety as it is far too massive.

May I ask if, in this discussion, anyone has commented on the self as being a temporary identification/adoption with the form in which we incarnate?


Hi, welcome and yes, that is what this whole discussion has been about. How to permanently realise that identification with the individual form is not real.

It is one of those threads where you don't need to read it all, just jump in with something which interests you.

Jeanette

[greybeard]

I do realize that this thread has been brought from the old forum, and that it has most likely touched on many facets of self.

I have not read thro9ugh the entirety as it is far too massive.

May I ask if, in this discussion, anyone has commented on the self as being a temporary identification/adoption with the form in which we incarnate?

Hi Shin'Ar
Yes some where there is a video where it says that the ego is non existent and it is just identification with the me story.
It is temporary-- when you leave the body the so called ego does not come with you.
However any way that you wish to share your understanding of the subject is very welcome.
Every post is valued---it keeps the thread alive and fresh.
When I started the thread years ago in the original PA I had no idea that it would survive this length of time.
Best wishes Chris

[Shin'Ar]

[QUOTE=Shin'Ar;625222]


Hi, welcome and yes, that is what this whole discussion has been about. How to permanently realise that identification with the individual form is not real.

It is one of those threads where you don't need to read it all, just jump in with something which interests you.

Jeanette

Thanks Jeanette. Hate to step on the wrong toes on my first efforts. lol

[Shin'Ar]

[QUOTE=Shin'Ar;625222]

Hi Shin'Ar
Yes some where there is a video where it says that the ego is non existent and it is just identification with the me story.
It is temporary-- when you leave the body the so called ego does not come with you.
However any way that you wish to share your understanding of the subject is very welcome.


I would imagine that the mods like to see threads of such length find their way into the boneyard at some point, especially when the same things are just being rehashed over and over.

I would just like to make an observation.

Such understanding about ego and identity is NOT common, and most will reject it immediately, especially those that like to use the New Age movement to establish their own godhood and omniscience.

Just out of curiosity, what seems to be the more prominent response with regard to this subject?

I find it difficult to express my own thoughts and understandings without sounding as though I am proselytizing my own biases. There are many who would be insulted by thoughts regarding identity and self as delusional, and criticizing their own beliefs. These tend to jump on the proselytizing bandwagon to derail the discussion.

What is the typical method of expressing the things we speculate about, and consider for discussion, without crossing that line between preaching and simply stating what you think?

Any help here will assist me in entering into a discussion with the appropriate poise and deliverance.

[greybeard]

Hi Shin'Ar
dont worry you wont offend anyone on this thread, just be yourself.
There is no protocol--- there is just a level of respect here that helps people to be as they are.

It may seem that the thread is repetitive but there is an evolution on going from the understanding that was there in the first posts.
The very fact that over there are over 800 hits a month on the thread demonstrates that people are interested in what is lets face it a single minded topic-- though there are scientific videos to be found.

Bet wishes
Chris

[Jenci]

Such understanding about ego and identity is NOT common, and most will reject it immediately, especially those that like to use the New Age movement to establish their own godhood and omniscience.

Just out of curiosity, what seems to be the more prominent response with regard to this subject?

I find it difficult to express my own thoughts and understandings without sounding as though I am proselytizing my own biases. There are many who would be insulted by thoughts regarding identity and self as delusional, and criticizing their own beliefs. These tend to jump on the proselytizing bandwagon to derail the discussion.

What is the typical method of expressing the things we speculate about, and consider for discussion, without crossing that line between preaching and simply stating what you think?

Any help here will assist me in entering into a discussion with the appropriate poise and deliverance.


Hi Shin'ar


The ego is in a constant state of maintaining its existance. Introducing the idea that there is no individual self, no ego to an ego is likely to get a reaction. Don't be surprised if a person who is already on this path and is freeing themselves from the identification with the ego, actually ends up reacting back strongly. It's just the ego doing what it is supposed to do - continue its existence.

I rarely talk about this subject in real life. Forums are a little different because I can meet people who can relate to my experiences. Outside of the forums, I have only found one person and as this process goes on for me, the quieter I get about it.


If you feel that you may be sounding that you are proselytizing, then perhaps this is a good place to enquire into the discomfort. Who needs to tell people would be a good question to begin with?

The ego itself becomes the awakened one as it fights to prevent its dissolution. This is normal, it's just doing what it does. This spiritual ego is a place where a lot of people get stuck. Enquiring into the drive and the motivation behind all the actions - who or what is doing this? - can bring the clarity to see that the ego has stepped into the role of being awakened and it is driving the need to talk about it.

On this I am reminded of Nisargadatta who said "Hide your virtue. Live silently" He also said that once enlightened you would be lucky if the person talked about it.



Jeanette

[Shin'Ar]

Hi Shin'ar

The ego is in a constant state of maintaining its existance... It's just the ego doing what it is supposed to do - continue its existence.

The ego itself becomes the awakened one as it fights to prevent its dissolution.

On this I am reminded of Nisargadatta who said "Hide your virtue. Live silently" He also said that once enlightened you would be lucky if the person talked about it.


Jeanette


Thanks Jeanette,

I can associate with that which you are saying about becoming 'quiet'.

It is certainly synchronization that we speak on this, as I have recently been writing on this to some extent myself. It is my understanding that the human experience in this world is one where the average would be the struggle to balance between the spiritual and the physical. And the vast majority of this experience are that which seems to color the way this world views itself. Which also results in the cultural acclimatization that arises out of that particular experience.

In other words, most of the world is hellbent on satisfying their physical seductions, whether that be food, sex, wealth, luxury, etc.

Those few which rise beyond the average human experience will both aggravate the norm, and also struggle to be freed from it.

Yet, as higher levels of understanding and freedom are acquired, one becomes more and more isolated from the average human experience. And as you noted, this departure is also manifested in the evolving complacency toward having the normal, average humans around you understand the things that you do. Which is once again just another reason why the enlightened humans are so rare and removed from the average social interactions.

So I wonder how that realization plays into this goal of Avalon to supplant harmony into this world?

I am all for it and truly believe that this is our goal as an evolving species, which once realized will catapult the human experience into a higher state of being. But, considering the average state of being which now is so prominent, what efforts does the Avalon participant make to compensate?

[Jenci]

Thanks Jeanette,

I can associate with that which you are saying about becoming 'quiet'.

It is certainly synchronization that we speak on this, as I have recently been writing on this to some extent myself. It is my understanding that the human experience in this world is one where the average would be the struggle to balance between the spiritual and the physical. And the vast majority of this experience are that which seems to color the way this world views itself. Which also results in the cultural acclimatization that arises out of that particular experience.

In other words, most of the world is hellbent on satisfying their physical seductions, whether that be food, sex, wealth, luxury, etc.

Those few which rise beyond the average human experience will both aggravate the norm, and also struggle to be freed from it.

Yet, as higher levels of understanding and freedom are acquired, one becomes more and more isolated from the average human experience. And as you noted, this departure is also manifested in the evolving complacency toward having the normal, average humans around you understand the things that you do. Which is once again just another reason why the enlightened humans are so rare and removed from the average social interactions.

Very true. There's nothing wrong with the human experience. The irony is that some people believe that life is about becoming enlightened and realising what you truly are, that beyond the individual illusion. In fact it is the human experience that we are here for - as an incarnation as a human individual to have a sensory experience.

It just for some individuals the experience has been had, maybe after many lifetimes and it is time to make the journey home and to realise/remember what you truly are. When this calling begins nothing can stop it but it is very different to the average human experience, so can make interacting with that difficult....well certainly in the process of realising it.




So I wonder how that realization plays into this goal of Avalon to supplant harmony into this world?

I am all for it and truly believe that this is our goal as an evolving species, which once realized will catapult the human experience into a higher state of being. But, considering the average state of being which now is so prominent, what efforts does the Avalon participant make to compensate?

Well really the seeking of harmony is just another form of seeking. Whether the seeking be for a better relationship, better car, better job, better lifestyle, better world, better evolution of humanity as a whole, the seeking is still coming from the same thing.

Something which has a problem with "What Is"

This is division, conflict, separation from the Source. In other words it is a belief that something is incomplete, rather than whole. Whereas the Truth is whole and seeks nothing.

If the desire is for full realisation of the Truth, then ideas of these, however well intentioned and logical they seem to the mind, need to be discarded, just like ideas for a better material lifestyle need to be put aside.

This doesn't happen straight away. It's a process of seeing through the illusion of the seeker and the seeking. Some things which are obviously the illusion drop away quicker like the need to be fulfilled by a shiny new car, where as the seeking the end of suffering may take more investigation before it is seen through.

It's the sort of thing that the ego/mind will immediately scream "that's mean, cruel, unkind" etc but it really is not like that. The time to think about these things is once you have realised what you really are, rather than before and it doesn't mean that you become unkind and cruel either.

Here's a video of Mooji addressing this 'tricky subject' as he calls it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yk0ANlMmgI


Jeanette

[greybeard]

What about the millions of starving children?
Mooji addresses this question.

Thanks for posting the video Jeanette
I would like every one to listen to this.
Most people dont understand the value of spiritual endeavour, they tend to see it as ok but ineffective in helping to overcome the world problems--so they keep doing the same things they have done for thousands of years and wonder why we have the same situations..
As far as I can see the only way forward is a rising spiritual energy and I believe its happening.

Thats as near to a rant as I get these days---smiling.

Chris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7yk0ANlMmgI

[Shin'Ar]

What a freakin breath of fresh air you two are!

I will respond in more depth in a bit.

[greybeard]

Russell Brand, Daniel Pinchbeck, Graham Hancock
I never though I would see the day when I posted a Video with Russell Brand in it.
Never say never.
Warning some strong language, sexual comment etc.

Spiritually experience through the use of drugs and also the affect of consciousness on matter-- a lot covered.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyX2UYObUtM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyX2UYObUtM

[Shin'Ar]

Very true. There's nothing wrong with the human experience. The irony is that some people believe that life is about becoming enlightened and realizing what you truly are, that beyond the individual illusion. In fact it is the human experience that we are here for - as an incarnation as a human individual to have a sensory experience.

It just for some individuals the experience has been had, maybe after many lifetimes and it is time to make the journey home and to realize/remember what you truly are. When this calling begins nothing can stop it but it is very different to the average human experience, so can make interacting with that difficult....well certainly in the process of realizing it.



Ah yes Jeanette, you are right in tune with what was being discussed in this thread, http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit&p=628135&viewfull=1#post628135

This human experience should be considered as sacred and fulfilling as nay other experience or stage of development in the evolution of the One Consciousness via the many experiences of its fragments. Some believe that what 'we' realize as our fields of consciousness, once experienced a 'state of being' which was much more inert and unconscious, no- less conscious, :eyebrows:, such as animals, rocks, plants, etc. The human form is just another state of being in which our fields evolve through those experiences. How could any one aspect of such a Divine Design or process be considered any less or better than nay other, when each serves the grand purpose of evolving into higher consciousness and state of being? Is not each stepping stone along the pathway that allows us a crossing over the river, as important and vital as another?

It is precisely as you point out, that even though there is a difference of awareness along that pathway, ...(which creates many alterations of the frequencies encountered on that journey, both compatible, as well as incompatible, with our own),... all are on paths within the Divine Process of Being. All is One Experience/Vibration, subjected to many distortions and adjusting frequencies, which this 'we' that we adopt as our identities, experience as our 'lives'. Regardless of the individual and unique state of awareness each may have of that Process of Being, those adapting and evolving realizations fuel that fire of creation and infinitely continuing Mystery. Just as one must enter through a doorway to go into a room, that door of 'coming into awareness' must be proceeded through in order to enter into that room of 'higher awareness'.

This human experience is one such doorway, and the countless lessons and training that it offers, both to The All and to the Fragment, cannot be considered inconsequential or something from which we must escape or consider worthless. However. as you also noted, the training ground is but one of many, and has its purpose. That which The Ancients refer to as 'the cycle of darkness', is not the human experience, but the addiction to it in such great entrapment that the evolving field cannot grow further and becomes caught in a reincarnate repetition of that which was supposed to be experienced in a growing and evolving manner, but is now being experienced as the sole and only state of being worthy of one's awareness. The cycle of darkness of which the Ancients warn, and which many as you noted, misrepresent and confuse, is not the experiencing of the human life, but rather the thinking that this human experience is the highest state of being they choose to attain.

No different than the state of being experienced by any other addict to any other addiction. This is all that they want or desire and what else might be available to them does not attract them from their addiction.





Well really the seeking of harmony is just another form of seeking. Whether the seeking be for a better relationship, better car, better job, better lifestyle, better world, better evolution of humanity as a whole, the seeking is still coming from the same thing.

Something which has a problem with "What Is"




Yes, I refer to this as the Sacred Fire that dances within the form of every creation. It is what fuels creation, and causes the desire to seek understanding and higher awareness, rooted deep into our fields of consciousness. By Divine Intelligent Design, that Fire chases after an Infinite Mystery which cannot be caught.





This is division, conflict, separation from the Source. In other words it is a belief that something is incomplete, rather than whole. Whereas the Truth is whole and seeks nothing.

If the desire is for full realisation of the Truth, then ideas of these, however well intentioned and logical they seem to the mind, need to be discarded, just like ideas for a better material lifestyle need to be put aside.

This doesn't happen straight away. It's a process...(Process of Being). My own thoughts added in Bold.



Jeanette


Yes, it is this very chase for Mystery which creates the cosmos in its path. A hunt which shall have no capture, no end, no fulfilled future, because by design it is infinite. Truth is like time; it is relevant only to that which confirms it.

In the Whole, The All, everything exists as designed. Infinitely Mysterious. From the fragmented perspective of individual subjection, fueled into instinctive quest, it seems always at our fingertips, yet never fully acquired.

I do hope that I am not coming across as preaching here. I am simply stating that which I have come to understand in the hopes of hearing what others may have to offer.

It is the sharing which I hold sacred, and the very essence of Divine Process. What is taken, and what is offered, is completely at the mercy of the 'state of being' of the fields which are interacting.

[Beren]

A good quote I found:

"The ego goes for glitter but heart goes for gold"

[greybeard]

Hi Shin'Ar
Sorry im not in a place to respond to your excellent post not that it needs it.
My/our friend Jenci has left the shores of Avalon for some quiet time.
Keep posting here though--- your input is appreciated and valuable.

Regards Chris

[Shin'Ar]

Hi Shin'Ar
Sorry im not in a place to respond to your excellent post not that it needs it.
My/our friend Jenci has left the shores of Avalon for some quiet time.
Keep posting here though--- your input is appreciated and valuable.

Regards Chris

Thank you Chris,

I will search around through the forum to see if there are any other discussions that I might benefit from.

Will see you out there I'm sure.

[greybeard]

Near Death Experience.
Andrew Petro author of Remembering the Light.
Very positive and interesting.
Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp7MLYrAag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp7MLYrAag

[greybeard]

Dannion Brinkley NDE Angels. the Crystal Cities



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtt5ji7b9ig

[WhiteFeather]

Dannion Brinkley NDE Angels. the Crystal Cities



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtt5ji7b9ig

Great interview Chris. Dannon has some great insights. I Resonate well with him, no doubt. Asquali

[greybeard]

NDE Revelations
Mellen-Thomas Benedict shared details of his incredible Near Death Experience (NDE) that took place in 1982, while he was in hospice care for a terminal illness. He was without vital signs for at least an hour and a half before he returned to his body.

Here are some of highlights of what he learned while on the "Other Side:" The Other Side is not all it's cracked up to be-- being in a human body is actually a more optimal way to experience the universe. Black holes at the center of galaxies function as great processors of universal matter-- a total recycling machine. No evil exists in the human soul, and a person is purified of any evil or darkness before they are reincarnated. Reincarnation occurs automatically, driven by the body which is more powerful and millions of years older than the mind. The Other Side is totally individualized and each person experiences it uniquely. Earth has expended 90% of its life force, the sun is getting old, and we're beginning to lose the moon. Also the liquid metal core of the Earth is cooling and water will evaporate within the next 2,000 years. It's humanity's manifest destiny to leave Earth and colonize other planets. Within the next 400 years such "star seeding" will begin.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8FBdLFUQc0

[greybeard]

This is a very positive look at now and the future.
Mellen is in daily contact with Source which has been proven to give correct answers to all kinds of questions.
One of the most positive interviews I have listened to

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_r3fVV8F1U

[greybeard]

Dannion A message of love
Published on 1 Jan 2013

Dannion Brinkley's presentation from Barbara Marx Hubbard's Birth 2012 and Beyond at the Agape International Spiritual Center.

Get more Dannion Brinkley predictions and messages of love and peace at: http://dannion.com



Chris (If you cant love others be kind to all--that is very transforming in your life)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnXUfZv9HZ8

[greybeard]

Dear Chris,

Even though we can’t always see the results of our care, we can feel in our hearts the collective and individual effectiveness of our compassion and outgoing love for the well-being of each of us and the planet.

The Global Coherence Community is already growing in 2013 and we are excited about co-creating with many more people and organizations who have a heart-resonant intention to uplift planetary consciousness. We want to share our mission of global coherence and a more peaceful planet, and among our efforts is a brief and informative new video, Together in the Heart video, that tells the story of the Global Coherence Initiative (GCI).

The video’s narrators, GCI Steering Committee members Howard Martin and Drs. Rollin McCraty and Deborah Rozman, describe its purpose and give a simple explanation of the science behind it.

Watch the Together in the Heart video (5 minutes, 28 seconds).

The pioneering technology of the Global Coherence Monitoring System is continuing to collect important data from the electromagnetic fields of Earth, the ionosphere and other environments. GCI scientists are expanding the system to more locations around the world.

All of us, as individual members of the GCI community, can share this uplifting video message and possibilities of the initiative with others.

Enjoy the video!
GCI Steering Committee and Staff






http://www.glcoherence.org/templates/gcp/articles/landing/2013/together-in-the-heart/index.php?mtcCampaign=22795&mtcEmail=156261627

[AwakeInADream]

This is a rather interesting short and concise document about consciousness, plenty of avenues to explore:
http://www.checktheevidence.com/pdf/Conscioussness%20-%20Expanding%20Reality%20Booklet.pdf

[greybeard]

FEBRUARY 2013
ARTICLE OF THE MONTH

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=93c692460dce9dc0553b91fa3&id=c383d3d0ac&e=dc3baafeaf

Moksha: What the Vedas Say About Liberation





Stripped down to its basics, Moksha is universally defined as that unchanging state in which there is no trace of grief. However, there are different opinions regarding its nature:



1). Those who do not believe in the Vedas (Nastikas) say that death itself is Moksha because there is no rebirth.



2). For the layperson living happily here itself is Moksha.



3). Some believers in the Vedas (Astikas) consider living in Vaikuntha (divine abode) as Moksha. However, even the two gatekeepers of Vaikuntha, namely Jai and Vijay had to leave it due to a curse (Shrimad Bhagavatam 3.16). This shows that the Sukha there is also not unchanging.



4). Even the happiness gained in heaven (Swarga) is transient, as the examples of king Yayati and Nahusha in the Mahabharata show. Therefore, attainment of heavens too is not Moksha.



5). The mere association with God too cannot be Moksha, because Arjuna who had it could not avoid grief in the battlefield.



None of the above visions of Moksha conforms totally with the scriptures, which tell us that Moksha is a state of eternal and unsurpassed Ananda, and that it is our basic nature, our true self. Our error lies in thinking our mind-body complex as our ‘true self’. He who has understood his true nature realizes that he has no connection with the body. Such a person is called by the scriptures as A-Shariri, ‘one without a body.’ ‘Shariri’ in Sanskrit means one with a body, and the ‘A’ preceding it negates it. The chief characteristic of such a person is that he remains untouched by both pleasant and unpleasant things.



Doubt: A self-realized person appears no different from any other normal, worldly person. So what exactly is meant by ‘without a body’?



Answer: Ashariri here explicitly means the realization that one has no connection with one’s body. Any connection supposed is due to Avidya, our ignorance. What this means if that if money is stolen from the person who feels a connection to his body (Sa-Shariri), he feels grief. The A-Shariri in such a situation will not feel any grief. A person with a body will feel pride in wearing beautiful earrings, the bodiless one will not. This is the meaning of the liberated person being called ‘bodiless’ in the Vedas. Therefore, even though the liberated one appears like a ‘samsari’or worldly person from the outside, he is not really a Samsari (Shri Shankaracharya’s commentary on the Brahma Sutras 1.1.4).


Wholeness is Immortality; Multiplicity is Death



Another name for Moksha is ‘Bhuma,’ meaning a wholeness which encompasses all. Grief or fear is possible only in duality. When there is nothing other than me why should I be afraid? (Br.U 1.4.2). Where one sees another, hears another, knows another, that is smallness; where nothing other is seen, nothing other is heard, nothing other is known, that is Bhuma. Bhuma is ‘Amrita’, while smallness is death (Chandogya Upanishad 7.24.1). There is nothing here with multiplicity; he who sees multiplicity, wanders from death to death (Br.U 4.4.19). Many such mantras from the scriptures clearly assert that non-duality means immortality and freedom from fear. One who understands the Ananda of Brahman is not scared of anything (Taittriya Upanishad 2.9.1).


Moksha is Jnana



One who knows Brahman becomes Brahman (Mundaka Upanishad 3.2.9). Moksha is actually nothing but realizing what is actually one’s own true self. Therefore, there is nothing more to be done for Moksha other than knowing that one’s essential nature (Swaroopa) is Brahman. When we say that “He is singing standing”, there is no interval between his standing and singing. Similarly, there is no interval between Knowledge of one’s self (Jnana) and liberation (Moksha) as exemplified in the statement: “He became liberated knowing his Swaroopa” (Shri Shankaracharya’s commentary on the Brahma Sutras 1.1.4).


Listening, Logic and Experience: The Way to Moksha



Such knowledge (Brahma Jnana), results only from listening to (Shravana), thinking over (Manana) and then ruminating over (Nidhidhyasana) the Vedic statements.



Shravana means listening to the teachings of the Guru with Shraddha (faith). In a rare case of one having a very strong Samskara, merely hearing the teacher could itself lead to realization. However, normally, thinking over what has been heard is necessary. This goes on till one is satisfied with what one has heard. Thinking implies the use of logic; but this logic should be in accordance with the scriptures (Shruti). Of course, inference is not forbidden. However, we should never be tempted to use pervert logic. When such an aspirant has a doubt regarding the scriptures, he should not find fault in the latter, but instead should conclude that his own previous wrong knowledge is impeding the correct understanding and so he has to correct himself. The Shraddha of the aspirant should be total in the Shruti.



At the end of this process of thinking, when doubts no longer arise, it means that the lesson has been intellectually understood. The identity of the individual soul with the Supreme Soul understood in this way till now is only an intellectual understanding. To bring this intellectual understanding into experience we need to do Nidhidhyasana, i.e. ruminate over the conclusion with firm conviction. In other words, applying oneself to what one has heard one should go on retaining the knowledge that ‘Brahman is oneself’. In due course the identity of the individual soul with the Supreme Soul (Brahman) will come to one’s experience. When this happens it can be said that one has Atma-Jnana, i.e. realized oneself as Brahman. Summing up, it implies that birth of Jnana needs listening, logic and experience.



Is Jnana a Result of Karma?



There is a great difference between Karma and Jnana. The knowledge of Brahman-atman identity cannot be got directly from Karma. Moksha is not like heaven obtained as a result of Karma. The difference between Karma and Jnana can be understood as follows:



Karma can produce fruit in any of the following four ways:



1). Produce (Utpadya), like producing a pot.



2). Through Modification (Vikarya), like milk to curd.



3). Obtaining the fruit by going somewhere (Aapya).



4). Through Rectification (Samkaraya): by adding a quality or removing a fault.



There is no other way to generate the fruit of a Karma, other than these four. Moksha however is not like any of these because:



1). Moksha is not produced because it is eternal.



2). Moksha is not got by modifying something because it is unchanging.



3). It is not reachable because it is omnipresent.



4). Moksha is not rectifiable because nothing needs to be added to it since it is complete and nothing needs to be removed from it because it is faultless (Sutra 1.1.4; Br. Up 3.3.1).


The Jnana-Karma Collective



Some say that Moksha is possible only by clubbing Karma with Jnana. Their contention is that Moksha is not possible only with Jnana. This clubbing of the two is called the Jnana-Karma Samuchhaya , or the knowledge-action collective. However, this is not correct because Jnana and Karma can never be together. Karma is based on the multiplicity of the doer-the action-and the fruit of this action. This implies the acceptance of multiplicity, which is the state of Avidya (the ignorant state which perceives multiplicity in this world). On the other hand, Jnana is the state of Vidya where all multiplicity is refuted. Therefore, Moksha cannot be the result of clubbing together of Jnana and Karma.



This article is based almost entirely on the teachings of Param Pujya Swami Paramanand Bharati Ji. However, any errors are entirely the author's own.



References & Further Reading:

Bharati, Swami Paramananda. Vedanta Prabodh:. Varanasi, 2010.
Gupta Som Raj. Upanisads with the Commentary of Sankaracarya, Five Volumes. Delhi

[greybeard]

Eckhart Tolle and Dr David Hawkins are the main influence for many of the posts in this long thread particularly in the early pages.

The idea of transcending the ego came from books by Dr Hawkins.

There is a mass of information and videos on spirituality and science within the thread--all as relevant today as when they were posted.
Many contributed and I hope that continues though I miss Jenci and her invigorating posts.

Chris

[greybeard]

Bruce Lipton: The Frequency That is "You"

Bestselling author and renowned cell-biologist, Bruce Lipton, joins Barnet Bain and Freeman Michaels for a remarkable conversation about New Science and expanding perception about who we are and how the world works.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4WoeP8d_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4WoeP8d_4

[greybeard]

Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender

“Love is a way of being. It is the energy that radiates when the blocks to it have been surrendered. It is more than an emotion or a thought—it is a state of being. Love is what we have become through the pathway of surrender.”

~Letting Go p. 172.

This is a quote from the last book from the late Dr David Hawkins.

I have it and its a great way to release all kinds of negative feelings and emotions.

Chris

[greybeard]

Scott Kiloby - 'The End Of The Spiritual Search' - Interview by Iain McNay Conscious TV

Scott is author of "Love's Quiet Revolution" and "Reflections Of The One Life". He is also a lawyer and a musician. In this interview he talks about his drug addiction of 20 years and how through a series of 'spiritual openings' he found he was what he had been seeking.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU0KkuLZstE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU0KkuLZstE

[greybeard]

This is the first time that I have posted a film but it is very interesting.

Dannion Brinkley


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77lc0yasjYc

[Zampano]

hello chris and friends
I figured out myself right now, that there is no search for the truth. It always was here, never went, never changed.
I wasnt aware of the truth. As simple as that.
Truth is surrounding myself in every single moment.
Truth is honesty and love.
Truth is the honesty for yourself and love is the conclusion.

Love is the glue, that holds us together. And gratitude for everything we can experience


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXDMoiEkyuQ&list=PLOGi5-fAu8bF-qQzAqeZJ0pV94LOhIcbS&index=3

[greybeard]

"hello chris and friends
I figured out myself right now, that there is no search for the truth. It always was here, never went, never changed.
I wasnt aware of the truth. As simple as that.
Truth is surrounding myself in every single moment.
Truth is honesty and love.
Truth is the honesty for yourself and love is the conclusion.

Love is the glue, that holds us together. And gratitude for everything we can experience"



Well said Zampano.
Two things you cant escape--- this moment--the eternal Now and your True Self.
The Truth is always present as you so eloquently said Zampano.
The longest distance is head to heart.
Love takes you there

Chris

[skippy]

http://www.curiositiesbydickens.com/wp-content/uploads/my-favorite-day.jpg

[Zampano]

Yes...writing this down with a huge smile on my face

The true self and the moment, right now!
And be true to yourself!
Skippy, pooh and piglet summed it up!
You hear it, you read it over and over again at suddenly, you see.

[greybeard]

Yes...writing this down with a huge smile on my face

The true self and the moment, right now!
And be true to yourself!
Skippy, pooh and piglet summed it up!
You hear it, you read it over and over again at suddenly, you see.

Very Happy for you Zampano
Your smile is infectious
You made my Day

Chris

[greybeard]

Yet another Dannion Brinkley NDE audio.

If you want to know what happens when you exit your body listen to this.

AND he has some sense of humour.

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-AvKtSjKo

[greybeard]

Two interesting quotes from a book im reading today.

"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile." Albert Einstein

In order to realise your destiny you must be willing to release your history" Karl Schmidt.

That's in Dannion Brinkley's book "Secrets of the Light"

Chris

[greybeard]

Science and spirituality abounds in this video.

Part 5 Ancient Knowledge.

Published on 1 Jan 2013

Solving ancient mysteries Part 5. "The Ancients" knew much more than given credit for regarding Life, The Universe, Astronomy, Advanced Mathematics, Magnetism, Healing, Unseen Forces etc.



This Episode deals with highly controversial topics that might be very confusing to some viewers. Nikola Tesla, Energy, Coral Castle, Tablet of Shamash, Planet Saturn, Hexagonal Vortex Feature on Northpole, Magnetism, Coded Media, Hurricane Sandy, Winterstorm Athena, Giants, Nephilim, Mythology and much more.

Encoded knowledge is information that is conveyed in signs and symbols and we can find this knowledge all over the world. All these ancient sightings and geometric patterns (Sacred Geometry) symbolise unseen forces at work. We are being lied to by the media. Modern archaeologists don't know what they're talking about. "The Ancients" were not stupid or primitive. We just failed to de-code this knowledge conveyed in signs, symbols and ancient artwork. This kind of information is kept hidden from the public.

Scientists dont know what holds the universe together, the answer is sound and unseen forces. Matter is governed by sound frequencies. There is much more to life than we can perceive with our 5 senses. The question then becomes "who or what governs unseen forces?" What is behind the symmetry throughout nature? (Golden Ratio, Phi, Fibonacci Sequence etc.) It simply cant be just coincidence, in my opinion there is an intelligent mind / consciousness behind all this that keeps it all together.

Chris

Ps having listed to the video again I have to say that there are parts of this that I am uneasy with.
Further into the video there is too much anger coming from the presenter for my taste.
Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rQwUFrmMg

[greybeard]

Ancient knowledge part1

I posted this in order to create interest in the series (final part posted above)
there are other great parts well worth watching.

Chris.


Solving ancient mysteries Part 1. "The Ancients" knew much more than given credit for regarding Life, The Universe, Astronomy, Advanced Mathematics, Magnetism, Healing, Unseen Forces etc.
Encoded knowledge is information that is conveyed in signs and symbols and we can find this knowledge all over the world. All these ancient sightings and geometric patterns (Sacred Geometry) symbolise unseen forces at work. We are being lied to by the media. Modern archaeologists don't know what they're talking about. "The Ancients" were not stupid or primitive. We just failed to de-code this knowledge conveyed in signs, symbols and ancient artwork. This kind of information is kept hidden from the public.

Scientists dont know what holds the universe together, the answer is sound and unseen forces. Matter is governed by sound frequencies. There is much more to life than we can perceive with our 5 senses. The question then becomes "who or what governs unseen forces?" What is behind the symmetry throughout nature? (Golden Ratio, Phi, Fibonacci Sequence etc.) It simply cant be just coincidence, in my opinion there is an intelligent mind / consciousness behind all this that keeps it all together.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVUU3p5iHMA

[Fred Steeves]

Hi Chris. Just came across this guy today, and I won't by any means vouch for all of his material, but he nails in one fell swoop here my bad boy, politically incorrect view on "enlightenment". Atleast a sizeable portion of it. Warning, it's got some rough language, but he gets right up in on it IMO.

j67h5Vm9e4E

[Hazel]

Wooohooo..

now thats the kind of energy that sticks a pipe cleaner up ones chimney

love it!

[greybeard]

David Sereda : Theoretical Physics & Spiritual Wisdom


David Sereda Coast to Coast Published on 3 Mar 2013

Author and ufologist David Sereda returned to the show to illuminate the correlations between theoretical physics and spiritual wisdom. He pointed out how the duality of human nature-- such as good and evil, is mirrored in the atomic structure with its positive and negative components. Yet, light, he said, is the only particle in physics that is non-dual or "single" even though it does encounter inertia.

Relating this to the spiritual, Sereda noted that Jesus said: "If thine ye be single, thy whole body shall be filled with light." He also cited the paper of physicist Paul Dirac, The Equation of the Sea of Negative Energy (view Don Hotson's article --PDF file-- on this topic), as first presenting the discovery of "Singularity." In such a place, duality, time and conflict no longer exist, Sereda explained.

While individuals might move towards the Singularity through prayer and meditation, he said eventually there could be a physics model for such a concept, which could allow spaceships to enter into it and travel to locations in our galaxy much faster than the current speed of light.

Biography:

David Sereda's first aspiration in life was to become an astronaut. In 1968, David and a friend witnessed a UFO along with hundreds of other witnesses. After this experience, David grew up as a UFO enthusiast never living in doubt of the phenomena that has swept the world since the Roswell incident in 1947. His interest in space, religion, philosophy, astronomy and science led him on his career in related fields. He has worked deeply in high technology, on environmental and humanitarian issues and as a professional photographer for over 20 years. He has studied world religion, science, physics and paranormal psychology for over 25 years.

Wikipedia
Theoretical physics is a branch of physics which employs mathematical models and abstractions of physics to rationalize, explain and predict natural phenomena. This is in contrast to experimental physics, which uses experimental tools to probe these phenomena.

The advancement of science depends in general on the interplay between experimental studies and theory. In some cases, theoretical physics adheres to standards of mathematical rigor while giving little weight to experiments and observations. For example, while developing special relativity, Albert Einstein was concerned with the Lorentz transformation which left Maxwell's equations invariant, but was apparently uninterested in the Michelson--Morley experiment on Earth's drift through a luminiferous ether. On the other hand, Einstein was awarded the Nobel Prize for explaining the photoelectric effect, previously an experimental result lacking a theoretical formulation.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQkjryCflQU

[greybeard]

Singularity is where science and spirituality meet.

Learning is an on going process for me as is understanding and believing.

I remember reading about a Sage in India who said "I am the Totality all of it"
Also experiencing non-locality a timeless state where they were everywhere in time and space at the same time-- all they had to do was focus their attention on something specific and they would be there.

There is no conflict in singularity therefore peace reigns. There only is One without a second--- now that is a very spiritual statement.

Now you have scientists like David Sereda who has a foot in both camps (Science and spirituality) saying the same thing.
Space travel in a state of singularity is instant--distance is no object because the traveller is everywhere at the same time.
Just focus is required.

People who experience out of body will say that they travel to other realms--same principal though its not a complete experience as they have not bodily transported and cant stay there, they also see subject and object which is still duality.

NDE people are saying much the same--- though they experience non locality --they can focus and be there.

They experience unity consciousness in that they experience the life review as though they are the other---there is no difference between them--they are One.
Dannion Brinkley speaks of being met by an entity that some would call Jesus, some Mohamed. some Krishna, some The Buddha.
Dannion said that Being is himself. There is only One Self and you reading this are that. Not part not joined, not an aspect but the Totality of That.

Now that takes some believing--- I believe it but I dont have personal knowledge of that.

Its taken me years to get to this belief--hope you make it quicker---smiling.

if you take the time to listen to the David Sereda video I posted recently, then what I have pointed to here will hopefully make sense.

Chris

[Mark]

Hi Greybeard. :)

Since we last spoke here my views have not changed in regards to the awakening experience.

Having undergone a kensho event (http://rahkyt.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/practical-enlightenment-the-vale-of-tears/) last March, for months after that I was deeply affected at the mental and spiritual levels. During that time, I was able to clear some things and realize some other things that made my life burden much lighter. During that time I also made some choices about who I was to become, including what I wanted to let go of and what I wanted to keep.

My children and the love I have for family and close friends were highest among that. I made the choice that I was not ready to be like this for the rest of my life, was not ready to pattern my body with that greater love that makes all lesser loves equal, was not ready to go where I now knew experientially I was destined to go. Where we are all destined to go. In the end, I was not ready to love my children the same as I loved everyone else.

Not yet. The middle path beckons.

But I know that it is there when I am ready to return. That it is here. That it is now and then. That it is inevitable. The peace and confidence that knowledge has left me with has removed many of the last and greatest of my illusions, but I choose to keep that One Self in that infinite space I went to visit it while I do my thing right here and right now.

These times, on this planet, right here and now, are too exciting to spend it eating lotuses! Kidding, of course. As a part-time skill-building exercise meditation is sublime, its effects upon consciousness and the living of a life inestimable. And, after a certain point, it becomes a part of a daily lived routine as walking meditation and natural ascents into that state through the day at quiet moments become the norm and a life simplifies as it conversely becomes more intricately beautiful and bountiful.

I’m no fan of pie-in-the-sky dreaming. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?53681-Be-The-Change-Are-you-a-part-of-the-problem-or-the-solution)


Of reductionist thought that answers the real problems of real people in the real world with deeper truth platitudes that end discussion and leave people foundering, sullen and silently fuming as their issues are relegated to meaninglessness in the face of the absolute. This is not to say that being aware of the absolute truth of reality is problematic. Rather, it is to say that confronting the limited and material truths of our reality with the Absolute is not a solution, but is instead a communicative, verbal and vibratory weapon often designed to overwhelm less eternal truths.

But this perspective comes from having 'seen' the other side. Experienced it viscerally, in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-D.

To no longer have questions in that regard or be enslaved to the fear that death is the End from lack of knowledge and experience of what lies beyond the end.

As an exercise to begin and continue on the path, seeking the Absolute and experiencing desire in that direction, is often the impetus that brings people to a spiritual and unlimited path, once they realize that the material one is limited.

So to that end, I'm always glad to come and check out your thread here as I know I'm going to find some great resources and you are here, ready to share a lifetime of experience with your kind self, just emanating a deep understanding, extraordinary insight, rich compassion and loving peace.

That's my update, brother. Blessings!


May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all be free from sorrow and the causes of sorrow;
May all never be separated from the sacred happiness which is sorrowless;
And may all live in equanimity, without too much attachment and too much aversion,
And live believing in the equality of all that lives.

[greybeard]

Thank you Rahkty for your kind comments and sharing
I have book marked your web page.
I am sure many will benefit from visiting your spiritual place
Chris

http://rahkyt.wordpress.com/

[greybeard]

The Non Dual state: Is It in Our Experience?

http://www.exoticindia.com/?utm_source=Exotic+India&utm_campaign=94187a355d-The_Non_Dual_state_Is_It_in_Our_Experience&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=94187a355d&mc_eid=dc3baafeaf



It is easily recognized that when we are awake both the body and mind are active. Their activities include not only performing karma, but also experiencing its fruits. In the dream state however, the physical body is inactive and only the mind functions. Both the waking and dream states are tiring for the jiva. So as a bird flying for a long time in the sky gets tired and returns to its own nest for rest; after the hard work in the wakeful state and dreams, the jiva too enters into deep sleep (sushupti). Here he is totally free from tiresomeness (Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 4.3.19; Chandogya Upanishad 6.8.2). In deep sleep there is no desire for anything, nor are there are any dreams (Mandukya Upanishad 5).


Sushupti is the Non Dual State



In the waking and dream states, we do not know anything about what another person is experiencing. The only way to know his experience is to ask him. For e.g. a doctor can know the details of his patient’s pain: where it is located, whether it is increasing or decreasing etc, only after the patient informs the doctor himself. Similarly, a patient’s dream experiences also can be known by the doctor only by asking him.



On the other hand however, to understand the experience of deep sleep of another person, we do not have to ask him. As soon as somebody says that he had a sound sleep we are able to understand his experience, without asking him at all. This is very perplexing, why is it so?



We have to ask the other person’s waking and dream experiences because we are different from him in these two states. However, if anybody’s deep sleep experience is understood by us even without asking, it automatically shows that during deep sleep there is no difference at all between us; I am himself. In other words, it is clear that I exist in everybody’s deep sleep.



In the waking state, we experience the world through our sense organs and mind, which are different for each individual. In dreams however, the sense organs are inactive and only the mind functions. Therefore, whether it be the waking or dream state, it is through the sense organs and mind that we experience the world. But since these instruments vary from individual to individual, the experiences received through them are also different, varying with each personality. Thus in these two states we can know the other’s experience only when he tells us himself.



In sushupti however, we are embraced by everyone’s indweller God, and everything becomes One. Just like a man embraced by his dear wife does not know anything within or without, the jiva in God’s embrace has become one with everything (Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 4.3.21). Therefore, the apparent difference that is found in the waking and dream states between himself and others is completely absent in deep sleep; one is all alone. In other words: he is himself in everybody else. In this way the atman who appears to be different in different creatures when we are awake, loses the apparent distinctions and stays undisturbed in deep sleep. This is precisely the reason why we do not need to ask others to know their experience of deep sleep. It is already known without asking.



Thus we realize that no differences exist at all from one to another when the conditioning adjuncts (upadhis) like the body, sense organs and mind etc are dropped in deep sleep. According to the Brhadaranyaka Upanishad: ‘In deep sleep, there is no distinction of child or adult, king or beggar, educated or uneducated, man or woman....everyone has the same state of happiness’ (2.1.19). The word happiness in this shloka is qualified by an adjective ‘ati-ghani’, meaning an Ananda in which grief is totally destroyed. That is why there is no trace of dukha in sushupti. It is pure unalloyed sukha (Ananda). I is a state free from desire, and free from paap and punya. This is the state of Abhaya (fearlessness): Brhadaranyaka Upanishad 4.2.20.



However this Ananda terminates with the termination of deep sleep. The oneness which resulted from the disconnection of the instruments (body, senses, mind) is gone the moment a connection is established with them as soon as we wake up. This is because our attachment to the body, nurtured over several births, is still intact. The Upanishads describe what happens using the following imagery: ‘One who had lost kingship becomes king again, one who had lost poverty gets it back again. Similarly a tiger or a lion or a wolf or a worm or a butterfly or a mosquito becomes what it was, immediately after returning from deep sleep (Chandogya Upanishad 6.9.3).


This is Paramananda



The Ananda experienced by us in deep sleep is Paramananda, i.e. there is no happiness equal to it and certainly none greater than it. ‘Here the jiva is transparent like water, he is alone without a second and therefore is free from fear. This is Paramatman. It is the highest destination for the jiva, his highest treasure, his highest world and his highest happiness’ Brhadaranyaka Upanishad (4.3.32).



It is difficult for people to understand this description of deep sleep given by the scriptures. We fail to have faith in these words because we have always been accustomed to obtaining sukha only through an effort, and here is a state which gives us the maximum happiness precisely because there is the absence of any effort.



Generally the experience of deep sleep is taken very lightly and the following objections are raised: How can it be called the state of maximum happiness? In fact, it cannot be called happiness at all since we obtain happiness only by interacting with various objects (vishayas), but there is no object at all in deep sleep. Actually, deep sleep is not a positive experience at all, the happiness there signifying only the absence of grief rather than the presence of sukha per se.



Reply: To understand the answer to all these queries, let us assume that happiness indeed is the result of our interaction with external objects. However, we do know that our happiness terminates after we have been in contact with an object for quite some time. If it be true that our sukha results from contact with various objects, then how are these two to be reconciled? Why should happiness terminate when still in contact with the object? Or at the very least, why doesn’t the desire to come into contact with the object arise again soon after the termination of happiness?



The non believer would answer these questions as follows: ‘There is no question of reconciliation here, because that is the nature of the process. The only meaningful pursuit in life is to extend the duration of the pleasure by some means. All efforts should be directed only towards that end.’



This however is not correct. Suppose that one is deprived of sleep, food and pleasurable objects for a long time and then all of them are simultaneously offered to him. It is known that the first thing he would seek would be sleep, then food and then the pleasures from outside objects. Even in the case where pleasurable objects are in good supply and one is deprived only of the pleasure of sleep, he would give up everything and take pills to get sleep. If there is obstruction for sleep, one would reject one’s wife or children or wealth. Therefore, it is clear that the pleasure from outside objects, the pleasure from food and the pleasure of sleep are in an increasing order. Hence, sleep is not merely the absence of grief, but also the greatest happiness.


Conclusion:



Thus we see that the all compassionate God is everyday giving us an experience to understand our oneness with Him. We would not deserve to be called human beings if we did not stop to ponder on this profound aspect of our daily life, realizing that such a union is not mere speculation, but something which falls well within the ambit of our experience.



This article is based almost entirely on the teachings of Param Pujya Swami Paramanand Bharati Ji. However, any errors are entirely the author's own.

[greybeard]

Dr Eben Alexander - the deepest realms of super-physical existence

http://www.eternea.org/Eben_Alexander/biography_eben.htm

Published on 9 Mar 2013

Dr. Eben Alexander NDE. Thousands of people have had near-death experiences, but scientists have argued that they are impossible. Dr. Eben Alexander was one of those scientists. A highly trained neurosurgeon, Alexander knew that NDEs feel real, but are simply fantasies produced by brains under extreme stress.

Then, Dr. Alexander's own brain was attacked by a rare illness. The part of the brain that controls thought and emotion—and in essence makes us human—shut down completely. For seven days he lay in a coma. Then, as his doctors considered stopping treatment, Alexander's eyes popped open. He had come back.

Alexander's recovery is a medical miracle. But the real miracle of his story lies elsewhere. While his body lay in coma, Alexander journeyed beyond this world and encountered an angelic being who guided him into the deepest realms of super-physical existence. There he met, and spoke with, the Divine source of the universe itself.

Alexander's story is not a fantasy. Before he underwent his journey, he could not reconcile his knowledge of neuroscience with any belief in heaven, God, or the soul. Today Alexander is a doctor who believes that true health can be achieved only when we realize that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition.

This story would be remarkable no matter who it happened to. That it happened to Dr. Alexander makes it revolutionary. No scientist or person of faith will be able to ignore it. Reading it will change your life. http://www.lifebeyonddeath.net/

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLdl_yMTOMM

[greybeard]

In Conspiracy Theorist mode Dannion Brinkley
His view of the near future
Covers a lot.
The Dollar, Iran, North Korea, China.

Chris

Chris



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgN8uPmld98

[sandy]

I just love his pure simplicity and humility>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks greybeard.......... :hug:

[greybeard]

Im listening to Adyashanti at the moment.

He is talking about how we are all waves of the Divine Ocean
In his humour he jokes---Of course the wave is composed of 100% water--- so is the ocean.

When the wave realises it is the Ocean it changes its perspective completely.
The Ocean knows that everything is ok and is not concerned for the wave as the wave never left the Ocean.

Simple but excellent.

[skippy]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-C-g4SP4KE4c/TyomnRsZigI/AAAAAAAAABY/w3CaxcPVM5s/s1600/pooh_and_piglet+favorite+card.jpg

[greybeard]

I love you skipping in with Pooh and Piglet, Skippy.
Brings back reading in bed under the blanket with a torch.
That was not a miss spent childhood-- smiling.

Chris