Nazi Train with Loot - Possible pic - but What's the symbol ?

[Did You See Them]

31636Have just seen a website ( http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/24652869/__Mysterieuze_foto_s_van_nazitrein_in_Polen__.html ) that is showing pictures of the train that was meant to have been hidden in tunnels at the end of WW2.

On one of the carriages is the following emblem - can anyone identify it - middle bottom ?

Looks very "Black Sun" like to me !

31637

[Maia Gabrial]

That symbol was also on the hit tv series "Revolution"....

[DeDukshyn]

Looks like just a slight variation on the pyramid with eye and sun rays ... Pretty much the same thing that is on the US dollar bill ...

http://vigilantcitizen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/09108.jpeg

[betoobig]

I hardly believe in casuality... the train was meant to be found now... tons of gold...now...
What for??
Much love

[Andrew]

Looks like it's been scratched on and probably put on when found.

[Morbid]

I hardly believe in casuality... the train was meant to be found now... tons of gold...now...
What for??
Much love

to sabotage GLD futures price?

[Atlas]

http://www.argunners.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/635811248035707530.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/www.argunners.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/635811248035707531-1024x545.jpg

[Atlas]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/18/16/2C789B2B00000578-3240066-image-a-26_1442588839363.jpg

[Carmody]

four nines of purity from pre-WWII, is indicative of gold that is of alchemical origin.

If the purity is that high, then it was very very likely constructed via alchemical means.

The gold is not fake, the market is fake.... and gold becomes pennies on the dollar to produce.

Rossi's cold fusion has now, according to those involved, 3 billion dollars worth of pre-orders.

Cold fusion is transmutation. So one facet of it is proven real. A condtion where transmutation is the incidental residual outcome of a process. Then transmutation is the main course of the given technological attempt, then t can be done in bulk.

Here is a link where a 75 billion dollar corporation says transmutation is a 'done deal', and is awarded patents for such techniques, and a 250 billion dollar corporation backs up the findings of the first. (http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-mystery-of-nagaokas-1920s-gold-experiments-why-did-work-stop-by-1930-dec-27-2013)

What we may be looking at, is an attempt to run through some property value transfer, before the gold market bottom drops out.

For, you see, you can't just have a huge number of tons of gold appear on the scene, out of the blue. A story is required for an origin point.

The Nazi loot train is a good one.

I'm not saying this is true but it is indeed a possibility. A huge one, fundamentally possible on the manufacturing of the gold part. That part is 110%.

Alchemical gold is easy to make when the technology is understood..and it is most definitely now a strong technological world...and and I stand by that statement even under extreme duress.

We're also in the middle of a new European conglomerate appearing on the stage.

In traditional terms, these market systems require some form of known stability, known quantities.... to stabilize their emergent monetization.


Large amounts of gold are required for that purpose. This gold appearance....allows a new system to appear out of nowhere, suddenly, right in the middle of Europe.

The guy who ran the secret programs for the German government in the area where the secret projects occurred and where the gold was supposedly hidden and found, was first and foremost an alchemist, who put an advertisement in a German newspaper in 1927, asking for financial support in order to transmute metals into gold. he was a scientist who worked in the area of atomic discovery.

[Sunny-side-up]

The Orb's just love that gold.

[Citizen No2]

Check this out:

Degussa, stamped on the pictured 500g gold bar above.

http://www.goldbarsworldwide.com/PDF/HB_4_Degussa.pdf

Who have links to this lot:

Evonik Industries

The Chemicals Business Area of Evonik emerged from Evonik Degussa GmbH (formerly Degussa GmbH — an acronym of Deutsche Gold- und Silber-Scheide-Anstalt (German Gold and Silver Separating Works)) based in Essen, Germany. It employs about 34,000[15] people and is one of the world's largest producers of specialty chemicals. It includes six business units: Advanced Intermediates, Consumer Specialties, Coatings & Additives, Inorganic Materials, Health & Nutrition and Performance Polymers.[16] Degussa was acquired by RAG in 2006. Its latest acquisition is the Tippecanoe Labs plant site at Lafayette, Indiana from Eli Lilly on 1 January 2010.[17] In November, a plant for the production of DL-[Methionine|methionine] was opened in Singapore. At a cost of €500 million, it is the largest investment to date in the chemical sector in the company’s history.[18] In June 2014, the Supervisory Board resolved to restructure the Group, with plans for the six chemical segments to be bundled into three GmbH (limited liability) companies from 2015.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evonik_Industries

Anyone connecting the, possible, dots in view of Carmody's post above.............. ?


Regards.

[Fellow Aspirant]

For, you see, you can't just have a huge number of tons of gold appear on the scene, out of the blue. A story is required for an origin point.

The Nazi loot train is a good one.

I'm not saying this is true but it is indeed a possibility. A huge one, fundamentally possible on the manufacturing of the gold part. That part is 110%.

Alchemical gold is easy to make when the technology is understood..and it is most definitely now a strong technological world...and and I stand by that statement even under extreme duress.

We're also in the middle of a new European conglomerate appearing on the stage.

In traditional terms, these market systems require some form of known stability, known quantities.... to stabilize their emergent monetization.


Large amounts of gold are required for that purpose. This gold appearance....allows a new system to appear out of nowhere, suddenly, right in the middle of Europe.

The guy who ran the secret programs for the German government in the area where the secret projects occurred and where the gold was supposedly hidden and found, was first and foremost an alchemist, who put an advertisement in a German newspaper in 1927, asking for financial support in order to transmute metals into gold. he was a scientist who worked in the area of atomic discovery.



I'm willing to bet that the Royal Canadian Mint does not use alchemical processes in its production of the Canadian gold coin, the Maple Leaf, yet it's purity is the much desired "Five Nines".

That is to say, the Maple Leaf coin is 99.999% pure gold. Only the South African Kreugerrand regularly achieves such purity.

So let's not go linking this gold train's treasure to alchemical processes on the basis of purity. There is no need to invoke the supernatural when it's clear that good old hum drum (have you been to Canada?) anal-retentive humans can do it in a factory setting. There may be other clues to its origin having an alchemical tie, but this isn't one of them.

from Wikipedia:


Gold Maple Leaf Canada

Value 50.00 CAD (face value)
Mass 31.10 g
Edge Serrated
Years of minting 1979 – present
Obverse
Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coin 1 oz obverse.png
Design Elizabeth II
Reverse
Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coin 1 oz reverse.png
Design Maple Leaf
Design date 1979 (2015)

The Canadian Gold Maple Leaf is a gold bullion coin that is issued annually by the Government of the Dominion of Canada. It is produced by the Royal Canadian Mint.

The Gold Maple Leaf is legal tender. The face value is 50 Canadian dollars. The market value of the metal varies, depending on the spot price of gold. Having a .9999 millesimal fineness (24 carats), in some cases .99999, the coin is among the purest official bullion coins worldwide. The standard version has a weight of minimum 1 troy ounce (31.10 grammes). Other sizes and denominations include 1 gram, 1⁄25 oz. ($0.50), 1⁄20 oz. ($1), 1⁄10 oz. ($5), 1⁄4 oz. ($10), and 1⁄2 oz. ($20).

The Gold Maple Leaf's obverse and reverse display, respectively, the profile of Queen Elizabeth II of Canada and the Canadian Maple Leaf. In 2015, new security features were introduced: radial lines and a micro-engraved laser mark.

On 3 May 2007, the Royal Canadian Mint unveiled a Gold Maple Leaf coin with a nominal face value of $1 million and a metal value of over $3.5 million.[1][2]
It measures 50 cm in diameter by 3 cm thick and has a mass of 100 kg, with a purity of 99.999%. The artist is Stanley Witten.


Cheers,

Brian

[Atlas]

http://images.sammleraktien-online.de/degussa_logo_alt.gif

The symbol on the gold bar seems to be the sun and the moon.



The pattern of 1oz gold medal time jump is the Chakra - Zeitsprung modeled.

https://www.degussa-crowdfunding.de/instances/726671d2c3994e504993dee87f21a29b/projects/images/150/630_1443797772_560e9b0cca6fa.png

On the back of the sun-moon symbol will be marked, which you can see below: General Information on the backs of medals and bullion can also be found here.

The crop circle - time jump was discovered on the Silbury Hill in Wiltshire Beckhampton on 2 August 2004 in England.

Source: https://www.degussa-crowdfunding.de/project/1oz-goldmedaille-zeitsprung

[Carmody]

On 3 May 2007, the Royal Canadian Mint unveiled a Gold Maple Leaf coin with a nominal face value of $1 million and a metal value of over $3.5 million.[1][2]
It measures 50 cm in diameter by 3 cm thick and has a mass of 100 kg, with a purity of 99.999%. The artist is Stanley Witten.

I said...WWII time period.

I did not say ----today.

Also, every little bit that I mentioned otherwise, is FACTUAL.

So, it is, as I stated, speculation.... but the room for it to be real, does indeed exist.

Absolutely, on the table. 110%, on the table. Cannot be dismissed.

[Did You See Them]

I'd say it looks more like silver than gold - not only because of the colour but the size of the bar shown.
It almost looks "cut" on the end as well rather then poured, so it may even be ingots of aluminium or other metal.

[Selene]

http://images.sammleraktien-online.de/degussa_logo_alt.gif

The symbol on the gold bar seems to be the sun and the moon.



The pattern of 1oz gold medal time jump is the Chakra - Zeitsprung modeled.

https://www.degussa-crowdfunding.de/instances/726671d2c3994e504993dee87f21a29b/projects/images/150/630_1443797772_560e9b0cca6fa.png

On the back of the sun-moon symbol will be marked, which you can see below: General Information on the backs of medals and bullion can also be found here.

The crop circle - time jump was discovered on the Silbury Hill in Wiltshire Beckhampton on 2 August 2004 in England.

Source: https://www.degussa-crowdfunding.de/project/1oz-goldmedaille-zeitsprung

Before anyone goes jumping too deeply into the possible symbolism of the “sun/moon etc” marks on that gold bullion in the photo – which I hasten to add is not from the Nazi gold train, but is a contemporary photo – some background on traditional hallmark and mint mark practices might be helpful.


A silver object that is to be sold commercially is, in most countries, stamped with one or more silver hallmarks indicating the purity of the silver, the mark of the manufacturer or silversmith, and other (optional) markings to indicate date of manufacture and additional information about the piece. In some countries, the testing of silver objects and marking of purity is controlled by a national assayer's office.
The hallmarks vary from country to country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_hallmarks

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/Selenewho/British%20Hallmarks_zpsjwx7wnbb.jpg (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/Selenewho/media/British%20Hallmarks_zpsjwx7wnbb.jpg.html)

Here’s a handy guide to dating gold manufacture by its hallmarks:
http://www.gold-traders.co.uk/hallmarks/

Cheers,

Selene

[DeDukshyn]

I'd say it looks more like silver than gold - not only because of the colour but the size of the bar shown.
It almost looks "cut" on the end as well rather then poured, so it may even be ingots of aluminium or other metal.

Look further down that same image, on the tunnel floor about halfway down the train car. Other crates containing gold bars. On the OP photo, the cameraman is at the front of the train, note the distance to the tunnel's support arch, and in the distance you can see some stuff on the floor. The two next photos Atlas posted are in sequence to the first - note the position of the tunnel arch. In the first photo you can see more clearly the crates further down the train contain gold bars (on the floor) The photographer from where he was standing then picked up a silver bar and photographed it (you can just make out the gold bars on the floor in this photo as well).

[Fellow Aspirant]

I said...WWII time period.

I did not say ----today.

Also, every little bit that I mentioned otherwise, is FACTUAL.

So, it is, as I stated, speculation.... but the room for it to be real, does indeed exist.

Absolutely, on the table. 110%, on the table. Cannot be dismissed.


Fine. Or refined. I am not dismissing your claim.

I hope you weren’t offended by my position, Carmody. It was not a personal attack by any means. Of course it’s all “on the table”. My point is that there is really no need to ascribe the gold on the Polish treasure train to be the result of an alchemical process. In my post, I pointed out that the Royal Canadian Mint regularly creates such stuff without (I still maintain) the use of alchemy.

Your retort that the gold would have to have been produced with processes available to pre-WW2 Germany points to a rather obvious fact, a given, but it does not obviate the use of the same process that is used today from having been used by the refiners of the 3rd Reich. They were well aware of it. In fact, Germans invented the process in 1874:

The Wohlwill process is an industrial-scale chemical procedure used to refine gold to the highest degree of purity (99.999%). The process was invented in 1874 by Emil Wohlwill. This electrochemical process involves using a cast dore ingot, often called a Doré bar, of 95%+ gold to serve as an anode. Lower percentages of gold in the anode will interfere with the reaction, especially when the contaminating metal is silver or one of the platinum group elements. The cathode(s) for this reaction are small sheets of pure (24k) gold sheeting or stainless steel. Current is applied to the system, and electricity travels through the electrolyte of chloroauric acid. Gold and other metals are dissolved at the anode, and pure gold (coming through the chloroauric acid by ion transfer) is plated onto the gold cathode. When the anode is dissolved, the cathode is removed and melted or otherwise processed in the manner required for sale or use. The resulting gold is 99.999% pure, and of higher purity than gold produced by the other common refining method, the Miller process, which produces gold of 99.95% purity.[1][2]
(from Wikipedia re: the Wohwill process)

These, too, are facts.

So, since the method was in use during the 2nd Reich, I think we can agree that the Nazis of the 3rd Reich would have had it at their disposal, yes?

Therefore my claim stands regarding the need for the Nazis to have used alchemical means to produce their almost pure gold. They could have, but they had other means at their disposal as well.
Besides, that's one huge pile of gold to make using chemistry!

I think we can also safely agree that Emil Wohlwill was not an alchemist, as his process used massive amounts of electricity to refine gold, rather than secret rituals, and was emulated by refiners in several other countries.

Interestingly, besides lots and lots of electricity, the Wohwill process requires lots and lots of almost pure gold (99.95%) to operate efficiently, the kinds of gold one might acquire if one had an army busy with stripping other countries and their citizens of their gold reserves and their jewelry, respectively. Coincidentally, in the same country as the gold treasure train was being loaded, the Nazis were also working feverishly on a super weapon, the "Bell", that required the use of lots and lots of electricity. In his investigation of the Bell, Igor Witkowsky noted the installation, very close by, of a new electric power plant and the infrastructure to connect it to the Bell “factory”. At this point, one might speculate that the output from such an electric power plant, when the Bell was not being operated, could have been used to smelt some very high grade gold. But that’s pure speculation too.

Cheers,

Brian

[bearcow]

Looks fake, the German symbol on the train hasn't faded after all these years

[Taurean]

Could be a Masonic symbol


31656

often shown on top of the crown of the Russian Double Headed Eagle


31655

[gigha]

It would seem it's the standard marking for an armoured German train.

[Atlas]

Yep, that seems to be the case as seen on these pics:

http://www.internetmodeler.com/artman/uploads/1/InitialPhoto.JPG

http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-639-4252-19A_Im_Osten_Panzerzug_mit_Gesch%C3%BCtz_und_Vierlingsflak.jpg

[Atlas]

Not sure what's written on the side of the Kanonen und Flakwagen

http://falconbbs.com/m70-299.jpg

http://falconbbs.com/m70-292.jpg

[Atlas]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/ghostships/nazisymbol.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/ghostships/nazisymbol2.jpg
Source: https://www.scribd.com/doc/93026162/German-Armored-Trains-In-WWII-Vol-2

See the above cheetah logo ? I think it's the same as this one:

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/germany/armored-trains/German_armoured_train_Panzerzug_BP42_eastern_front.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/ghostships/nazisymbol3.jpg

[Hervé]

This might help, the insignia being that of:


Eisenbahn-Panzerzug 63, a BP 42 class train, was first made operational in October of 1942. Upon completion, it was assigned to Heeresgruppe Nord, 18. Armee. It fought with Heeresgruppe Nord until April of 1944 when it was transferred to Heeresgruppe Süd.

Panzerzug 63 was destroyed in combat on 17 July 1944 just to the east of the town of Krasne.

Eisenbahn-Panzerzug = Railroad armored train

[Franro]

The small sign on the lower part of the train is the german militaire symbol for explosive (Sprengstoff) and the small triangle underneath contains one or two letters signifying the type of explosive.