Here: The So-called "Word Of God"

[Hervé]

Handwritten Draft Of King James Bible Discovered: Reveals No ‘Divine Powers’ (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/10/28/handwritten-draft-of-king-james-bible-discovered-reveals-no-divine-powers/)

Author: Antiphon Freeman (http://www.addictinginfo.org/author/antiphon/) October 28, 2015 8:51 am


https://markgeoffreykirshner.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/bible12.jpg?w=915

The earliest known version of The King James Bible, perhaps one of the most influential and widely read books in history, has been discovered (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html) mislabeled inside an archive at the University of Cambridge. The find is being called one of the most significant revelations in decades. It shows that writing is a process of revising, cutting, and then more rewriting. The Bible is no different in this regard, even though some conservative Christians claim it is the divine word of God himself. Perhaps God, then, is a revisionist. This find certainly seems to suggest that.

The notebook containing the draft was found by American scholar, Jeffrey Alan Miller, an assistant professor of English at Montclair State University in New Jersey, who announced his research in an article in The Times Literary Supplement (http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/). The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html) didn’t take long to pick up the story. They ran an article about it, HERE (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html). Mr. Miller was researching an essay about Samuel Ward, one of the King James translators, and was hoping to find an unknown letter at the archives. While you can say he certainly accomplished that end, he definitely wasn’t expecting to find the earliest draft of the King James Bible — which is now giving new insights into how the Bible was constructed.

He first came across the plain notebook not knowing what it was — it was incorrectly labeled. That’s why no one has found it until now. It had been cataloged (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html) in the 1980s as a “verse-by-verse” Biblical commentary with “Greek word studies, and some Hebrew notes.” When he tried in vain to figure out which passages of the Bible the commentary was referring to, he realized that it was no commentary at all — it was an early draft of part of the King James Version of the Bible.

Professor Miller described what it felt like when he first knew (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html) what he had in his hands:

“There was a kind of thunderstruck, leap-out-of-bathtub moment. But then comes the more laborious process of making sure you are 100 percent correct.”
http://i2.wp.com/www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/bible1.jpg?resize=630%2C482 (http://i2.wp.com/www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/bible1.jpg)
Image via The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html)


The material in the manuscript discovered (http://www.salon.com/2015/10/28/let_there_be_light_handwritten_draft_of_king_james_bible_reveals_the_secrets_of_its_creation_partner/) by Miller covers the apocryphal books called Esdras and Wisdom and seems to show that the translation process at Cambridge worked completely different than what researchers had previously known. Until now, it had been assumed that six different teams, or companies of translators that is, had worked more collaboratively rather than individually. Yet — this draft throws that idea out the window.

Ward’s draft seems to indicate the people were assigned individual sections of the Bible and then worked on them almost entirely by themselves — a massive undertaking with little guesswork. You would think this would cause people to become more error prone. In fact, quite hilariously, Professor Miller noticed that the draft suggests (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/books/earliest-known-draft-of-king-james-bible-is-found-scholar-says.html) that Ward was picking up the slack for another translator. This really shows how human the entire job was, according to him.

“Some of them, being typical academics, either fell down on the job or just decided not to do it. It really testifies to the human element of this kind of great undertaking.” This is sure to piss off a lot of religious conservatives who claim that the Bible is the “actual word of God.” While this finding certainly doesn’t disprove God, it does show that the translators of the Bible didn’t get a finalized product the first go around — it wasn’t a walk in the park with an angel over their shoulder telling them what to write. It took many different individuals, working separately — and they often suffered from man-made struggles, like meeting deadlines. You know, now that we think of it, doesn’t sound that much different from the writers of today’s workforce.

[Daughter of Time]

History has always been written - and re-written... to please the king!!!

[Bill Ryan]

.
Thanks for this! Very important stuff. Gradually, it's all breaking surface how much of a novelized account much of the standardly-accepted Bible is.

[araucaria]

It's just a "lost in translation" thing. For a tiny example, see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?23126-God-gets-tired-after-spending-enegy&p=248484&viewfull=1#post248484). Complexity is site-specific, and so is anything physical. What can be translated, i.e. transferred to another site, is a different complexity, and more in the order of an abstraction.

Say the complexity is a big joke that you explain or translate for someone. They may get the joke, but they probably won't laugh, or not so much.

If the complexity is a person, you have their foreignness to deal with: never easy.

[DeDukshyn]

[B]...
This is sure to piss off a lot of religious conservatives who claim that the Bible is the “actual word of God.” ...

When I was very young, I questioned "If the bible is the word of God, why did men write it?", "God told the men what to write", was the response. "How do we know the men wrote down the right stuff or that other men didn't change the information, how do I know this is the word of God?" I demanded to know.

"Because God says that no one shall ever change, add or subtract, any words to the written word of God." --> and then my child mind was satisfied ... not. That helped reinforce two things: Adults are gullible suckers, and that religion makes pretty much no sense at all (as a presented whole).

[Carmody]

The current count indicates something like a total of about 1400 changes or edits, compared to the earliest known versions.

[Citizen No2]

I once had to endure a talk by a group called 'Cornerstone'...... these guys were hard-core. They had come from all different types of church and formed this group as they felt their respective church's weren't hard-hitting enough. Anyhow, this talk. The lady said, "I'd like to show you this short film, and then discuss it afterwards".
The short film was about the terrible boxing day tsunami that hit Thailand, showing the utter desperation and carnage that was left in it's wake. After the film finished there was utter silence in the room. Said lady then pipes up, "The tsunami was a punishment from God to the Thai people, for them turning their backs' on him"........................ there were a couple of sharp intakes of breath from people in the room. Then said lady asks, "any questions?". I asked, "are you a christian?", "yes" she replies. I asked, "if you were there, walking around after the waters had cleared, would you help the dying, or pass them by because this was a punishment from god?"

She declined to answer the question. A couple of weeks later we received a verbal apology from her.

Talk about mind control.

I was absolutely stunned that any right-thinking person would hold those views. This type of person wants to drag us, kicking and screaming, into the twelfth century.



Regards.

[earthdreamer]

My religious parents can understand my criticisms of the Bible's composition being a relic of patriarchal political Roman church powers. They recognize its fallibility. I think there are lots of religious church-going people who are not fundamentalists and they realize the "word of God" is from the hand of man. The Bible stories are revered though for their repetitious patterns of tradition, moral lore and examples of Jesus's love and forgiveness. Some churches take stories to heart that emphasize peace and goodwill towards others. Some religious fools stress hell and damnation. It doesn't seem to matter how much evidence presents itself to the religious public that the Bible was constructed by a series of ancient corruptions (like the game telephone), allegories lost in translation to literalists and so forth; people love their Bibles! Nobody understands it, but they love it anyway, such is the power of tradition.

Even I will sometimes look to the gnostic gospels and texts from Nag Hammadi for some esoteric meaning but quickly get lost. Perhaps some songs from Psalms contain beauty that a poet could love. For me though, no matter how kind the fellowship, how lovely the people, sitting through a church service as the Bible is reverently quoted constitutes a torturous exercise in repressing the convulsive shudders of my inner cringe. honestly.

[ghostrider]

I don't want to ruffle feathers, this is just my observations, so many hinge their very reason for being on the words of god whom never wrote a single word, it is always a voice or feeling sent to a person who then put pen to paper...we all know how good ETs are at controlling earth humans with religion... They use our own fears against us, if we are afraid of snakes they appear as serpents, dragons they appear as dragons , if we think angels have wings they appear with wings ... We must shed fear, and leave behind beliefs and enter the age of knowledge...

[DeDukshyn]

... We must shed fear, and leave behind beliefs and enter the age of knowledge...

Here's a fitting quote from here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86214-Cobra-and-Corey-credibility-question&p=1015020&viewfull=1#post1015020):






"Beliefs are like a static conclusion and they do not fit in a dynamic, ever changing Universe." - DeDukshyn

:P

[Hervé]

A Vatican researcher and translator's conclusion on the matter:


Ex Vatican Translator, Mauro Biglino , Bible Hoax, Alien Manipulation of Man, Genocide, Cloning
8BE-4wmdCpg

Published on Jul 21, 2016
"The Book that will forever change our ideas about the Bible" Mauro Biglino. =Special Thank you to Claudia for translating for us!

This is a round table with Mauro Biglino, ex translator for the Vatican and best selling author. Gerald Clark, author of Anunnaki of Nibiru and Mercury Rising. Mauro has turned the religious world upside down, with his translations of the old testament and other ancient documents.
Topics of discussion -
Old Testament
Ancient Aliens
Genetic Manipulation
Cloning
Archons
Anunnaki
Nephilm
Nibiru Orbit Cycle
Slaves
Torture
Genocide
Intergalactic Sex
& More.

Mauro Biglino's "THE BOOK THAT WILL FOREVER CHANGE OUR IDEAS ABOUT THE BIBLE - THE GODS COMING FROM SPACE (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8cZZ8vNfLrRSXZXNmtqbG84WGs/view?usp=sharing)" (PDF)


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jD3z45mYL._AA278_PIkin4,BottomRight,-47,22_AA300_SH20_OU15_.jpg

See this thread: Biglino's Unexpected Bible - Translating it literally - UFO's (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38941-Biglino-s-Unexpected-Bible-Translating-it-literally-UFO-s)

[Franro]

Personally i think that god did not create man in his image but man created god in his image. There is no telling what and how much was edited in the original text. So we are left to find the truth ourselves. And not take these texts at face value.

[Hervé]

It gets even better... according to this researcher and scholar, the Bible is a large-scale psy-op experiment initiated by Plato...

And now... for the champion winner of all times in holding the title of fake news and its "good book":

What Does Plato Have To Do With the Bible? The Truth Perspective: Interview with Russell Gmirkin
(https://www.sott.net/article/336354-The-Truth-Perspective-Interview-with-Russell-Gmirkin-What-Does-Plato-Have-To-Do-With-the-Bible)
Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/336354-The-Truth-Perspective-Interview-with-Russell-Gmirkin-What-Does-Plato-Have-To-Do-With-the-Bible#) Sun, 11 Dec 2016 17:00 UTC



https://www.sott.net/image/s18/362832/pod/9781138684980.jpg

Just how old is the Old Testament?

If Moses didn't write the Pentateuch, who did?

For millennia, people have thought the Hebrew Bible was as old as many of the events it depicts. In recent generations, scholars have thought it was created over a long period of time, with various authors and editors. But the writings in the Hebrew Bible may not be as ancient as we've been led to believe.

On this episode of the Truth Perspective, we'll be interviewing Russell Gmirkin, independent researcher, scholar, and author of two of the most revolutionary books in biblical studies:


Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch (https://www.amazon.com/Berossus-Genesis-Manetho-Exodus-Hellenistic/dp/0567025926/) ​(New York-London: T&T Clark, 2006)



Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (https://www.amazon.com/Creation-Hebrew-Copenhagen-International-Seminar/dp/1138684988/) ​(London-New York: Routledge, 2016)

Russell's work radically challenges our understanding of the history of the Hebrew Bible. He demonstrates that there is simply no evidence that the Bible existed prior to the time of Alexander the Great (ca. 325 BC). All the evidence indicates that the collection of books we know of as the Hebrew Bible was written around the year 270 BC. And not only that: they relied heavily on Greek literature, particularly Plato's final work: Laws.

Listen in as we discuss how, when, and why the Bible was created.

You can visit Russell's website here: russellgmirkin.com (http://russellgmirkin.com/)

Running Time: 01:56:09

Download: OGG (https://media.sott.net/srn/20161211ttp-interview-with-russell-gmirkin-what-does-plato-have-to-do-with-the-bible.ogg), MP3 (https://media.sott.net/srn/20161211ttp-interview-with-russell-gmirkin-what-does-plato-have-to-do-with-the-bible.mp3)


https://media.sott.net/srn/20161211ttp-interview-with-russell-gmirkin-what-does-plato-have-to-do-with-the-bible.mp3



Listen live, chat, and call in to future shows on the SOTT Radio Network (https://radio.sott.net)!

====================================================



Well, that gives enough of a paradigm shift to throw the towel in about books...


http://img1.izismile.com/img/img7/20140227/640/people_who_have_literally_thrown_in_the_towel_on_life_640_30.jpg
... yes... floored...




... hard to fathom the amount of time in research, studies, speculations as well as lives and generations wasted on that #@%& book... :facepalm: :faint:

Disclosures about ETs, Aliens, government secrets, etc. are rendered very pale and insignificant in comparison to the enormous energy-release from three (3) major religions (based on that book) realizing they have been had...

[Foxie Loxie]

Amazing about Plato & his influence! Thanks, Herve! :highfive:

[Hervé]

Check also this blog article: David, an Ideal Greek Hero — and other Military Matters in Ancient Israel (http://vridar.org/2016/11/12/comparing-greek-and-biblical/)

[Hervé]

Russell Gmirkin: Athenian, Ideal Greek Tribes were the model for the Tribes of Israel (http://vridar.org/2016/12/16/the-tribes-of-israel-modeled-on-the-athenian-and-ideal-greek-tribes/)

By Neil Godfrey Vridar (http://vridar.org/2016/12/16/the-tribes-of-israel-modeled-on-the-athenian-and-ideal-greek-tribes/) Fri, 16 Dec 2016 18:31 UTC



https://www.sott.net/image/s18/362832/pod/9781138684980.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s18/362832/full/9781138684980.jpg)


The Bible's narratives evidently share much of the cultural heritage of ancient Syria and Mesopotamia but zoom in for a more detailed study and one arguably sees many signs of a distinctively Greek influence. That's the argument of Russell Gmirkin in Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible. Previous posts in this series that include explanations of how Greek sources could have influenced the biblical authors are:

Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (http://vridar.org/2016/10/16/plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/)
The Pentateuch's Debt to Greek Laws and Constitutions — A New Look (http://vridar.org/2016/10/26/the-pentateuchs-debt-to-greek-laws-and-constitutions-a-new-look/)
David, an Ideal Greek Hero — and other Military Matters in Ancient Israel (http://vridar.org/2016/11/12/comparing-greek-and-biblical/)
Some preliminaries before resuming Gmirkin's (http://vridar.org/2016/12/15/some-preliminaries-before-resuming-gmirkins-plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/)Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (http://vridar.org/2016/12/15/some-preliminaries-before-resuming-gmirkins-plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/)

Nothing is more essentially "Biblical Israel" than its Twelve Tribes. Genesis is for most part the story of the origins of these twelve tribes. The history of Israel is a history primarily of the tribes of Israel, mostly twelve at first, but then divided into two kingdoms of ten and two. One of the tribes was assigned for the priesthood and therefore not given a territorial allotment, but two of Joseph's sons were each given land areas to maintain the all-important twelve inheritors of the land while the sons of Levi became a thirteenth tribe. Always twelve, though sometimes ten and sometimes thirteen.

So very "biblical", yet so very Greek as known about Athens and various Greek colonies from the writings of Plato and Aristotle housed in the Great Library of Alexandria.

It's a fascinating observation. Gmirkin's argument is as follows.

Tribal groupings in the Ancient Near East generally consisted of literal kinship groupings. When we read about the tribal organization of Israel in the Hexateuch (the Pentateuch plus Joshua), however, we find something different. Most distinctive are the clear geographic boundaries that marked the set locations of each tribe. Furthermore, each tribe's geographic area was determined by lot. Take the case of the tribe of Zebulun in Joshua 19:
10 The third lot came up for Zebulun according to its clans:

The boundary of their inheritance went as far as Sarid. 11 Going west it ran to Maralah, touched Dabbesheth, and extended to the ravine near Jokneam. 12 It turned east from Sarid toward the sunrise to the territory of Kisloth Tabor and went on to Daberath and up to Japhia. 13 Then it continued eastward to Gath Hepher and Eth Kazin; it came out at Rimmon and turned toward Neah. 14 There the boundary went around on the north to Hannathon and ended at the Valley of Iphtah El. 15 Included were Kattath, Nahalal, Shimron, Idalah and Bethlehem. There were twelve towns and their villages.

16 These towns and their villages were the inheritance of Zebulun, according to its clans. See also Deuteronomy 4.5, 14; 5.31; 6.1; 12.1; cf. 11.2 and Joshua 13, 15-19, 21.

But people move. Families need to find better opportunities elsewhere when conflicts increase and resources decrease. A tribe defined by a geographical region is likely to be a fictive kinship group.

What we see here are two concepts of tribes. In one instance a tribe is identified by a geographical area; other times a tribe is understood to be kinship group descended from a common ancestor.
Gmirkin's study is a more methodical and in-depth exploration of some of the close similarities between Plato's Laws and the Pentateuch that I happened to post about earlier, a study initially inspired by Wajdenbaum's Argonauts of the Desert (http://vridar.org/category/book-reviews-notes/wajdenb-argonauts-desert/).

Plato's and the Bible's Ideal Laws: Similarities 1:631-637 (http://vridar.org/2015/06/22/platos-and-the-bibles-ideal-laws-similarities-1631-637/) (2015-06-22)
Plato's and Bible's Laws: Similarities, completing Book 1 of Laws (http://vridar.org/2015/06/23/platos-and-bibles-laws-similarities-completing-book-1/) (2015-06-23)
Plato's Laws, Book 2, and Biblical Values (http://vridar.org/2015/07/13/platos-laws-book-2-and-biblical-values/) (2015-07-13)
Plato and the Bible on the Origins of Civilization (http://vridar.org/2015/08/03/plato-and-the-bible-on-the-origins-of-civilization/) (2015-08-13)
Bible's Presentation of Law as a Model of Plato's Ideal (http://vridar.org/2015/08/24/bibles-presentation-of-law-as-a-model-of-platos-ideal/) (2015-08-24)
Plato's and the Bible's Ideal States (http://vridar.org/2015/09/21/platos-and-the-bibles-ideal-states/) (2015-09-21)
Plato's Thought World and the Bible (http://vridar.org/2016/01/30/platos-thought-world-and-the-bible/) (2016-01-30)

Both concepts sit side-by-side in the Biblical account.
Such a system is unknown in the Ancient Near East, where tribal designations reflected either real kinship groups or in some cases perhaps social classes, but did not typically correspond to bounded geographical areas or form the formal basis for provincial organization. (Gmirkin 2016, p.21f) Unknown in the Near East, perhaps, but well known in the Greek world.

Just as Joshua is said to have done, Greeks who set out to colonize new regions were depicted as first conquering a new territory and then dividing it up equally (compensating for areas of different quality). Scribes were appointed to mark out the different allotments that became the basis of tribal units. As in Israel, a primary concern of many comparable Greek colonies was to guarantee the inalienable right of land ownership and avoid an impoverished landless class or debt slavery. So much for the ideal, and it was an ideal that was espoused both by Plato in his Laws (3.684e (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0166%3Abook%3D3%3Apage%3D684) and 5.736c (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0166%3Abook%3D5%3Apage%3D736)) and Aristotle in his Politics (2.1266b (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0058%3Abook%3D2%3Asection%3D1266b) and 6.1319a (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0058%3Abook%3D6%3Asection%3D1319a)). The reality was that attempts to so redistribute land led to conflict. New colonizing expeditions sometimes set out with the same ideal in mind to be the foundation of their new society.

As in the Greek world we see in the Bible the same ideals, methods and functions of the tribal systems (a combination of fictive tribes based on geographical area that in fact cut across kinship groups and real tribes): land was to be divided equally according to different needs and quality; scribes were appointed to mark out the land allotments and divide them among the people; the allotted land was to be inalienable; the tribes became the basis of various administrative functions including military enrollment. As in both Athens (after late sixth century reforms) and biblical Israel citizens were identified by both their tribe and home district (village in Israel; the district or deme in Athens).

Each tribe in the Greek world was assigned its eponymous god while in Israel, as we know, we have the twelve eponymous patriarchs.

Interestingly Greek tribal divisions, both in Athens and various colonies, were by tens or twelve. Variations of both were found in Athens.

Did the Greek ideals then become the basis of the biblical political-economy? Gmirkin thinks so and I suspect he's right.

The arguments goes beyond the kinds of points in common that I have mentioned above. What I find especially significant is Gmirkin's point that quite unlike anything found in the literature of the Near East is the common interest in the Bible and Greek philosophical literature (Plato's Republic, Laws and Aristotle's Politics) with the establishment of an ideal state. When this common interest that extends to discussions of ideal geographical boundaries and specific administrative divisions and then when we go on to find the particular ideal solutions to these questions overlapping, I believe Gmirkin presents a strong case.

Continuing. . . .

Related:
So... Jesus read Plato? (http://vridar.org/2015/02/03/so-jesus-read-plato/)

[Krist]

Read this book some years back.Part of the "sometimes thirteen".http://www.christusrex.org/www2/koestler/
The Thirteenth Tribe,The Khazar Empire and its Heritage by Arthur Koestler.
This book traces the history of the Khazar Empire.Where do the Ashkenazi Jews come from?
Might be relevant to the discussion.

[Hervé]

Thanks for the input.

If ever you take the time to listen to the above linked interview (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<---) and which demonstrates the whole story as a Greek social engineering experiment, you may realize that anything derived from that so-called "Old Testament" becomes irrelevant... since they are artificial concoctions designed to turn any of the self-appointed priesthoods into slave masters.

That's the kind of disclosure that none of the Bible/Torah/Quran thumpers can stomach. That's a lot of people to have been conned...

That also makes for a lot of research, discussions and arguings irrelevant and pointless...

[syrwong]

I have read some articles on evidence that the a great part if not the whole ancient Greek civilization was concocted, to give a boost to the lack of historic aspect of the western civilization. Set this aside, it is quite clear that religion is invented to control the people, because obedience to god implies obedience to the ruler who is given the authority by god or rules by the word of god. What is less clear is the rewritting history is the main form of mind control. In this case it is imagining the world of god which best suit for the subjugation of the people. In others it is the loss of the identity of their own culture, the belief in the superiority of an alien culture, as found in many "developing"countries once conquered and are still controlled by the west.

[Krist]

Thanks for the input.

If ever you take the time to listen to the above linked interview (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<---) and which demonstrates the whole story as a Greek social engineering experiment, you may realize that anything derived from that so-called "Old Testament" becomes irrelevant... since they are artificial concoctions designed to turn any of the self-appointed priesthoods into slave masters.

That's the kind of disclosure that none of the Bible/Thora/Quran thumpers can stomach. That's a lot of people to have been conned...

That also makes for a lot of research, discussions and arguings irrelevant and pointless...

Thanks,
Yes, I could have clarified my post....10 years ago I was conned.Thought I might add something I felt was part of the con. I did take the time to listen,I might be a little slower than some here to get the "point". My research ability and depth has changed in the last 10 years dramatically....It's my meager attempt to add to a deeper discussion where I simply found a dot in an area that might be connected.
We can throw the Thirteenth Tribe out as pointless research to any who might stumble upon it in this post.
For me it is very clear with most books ,teachings,religious or other wise it is just one point of view.It never has had any more effect if the words were from god,plato,jesus or fill in the blank.
I left those names lower case because not one person here can prove they even existed except by the word , hand of man.For this lifetime I have not been able to verify man can be trusted with anything....Just one point of view of course.
Thank you for the opportunity to improve my posts content.

[DebJoy]

This is a very intriguing discussion. I've been wondering about the combination of 3 things: 1) the veracity of the Bible, 2) the Mandela effect (which includes reports of many changes in the KJV Bible), and 3) the Bible Code - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code. I don't have any credentials to discuss this deeply, but it seemed to me that the Bible Code was very forthcoming and accurate with highlighting events in human history through finding words/phrases through skip-distances. The movie, Contact, showed a great example of the ingenious method that was used to code the machine instructions, through decoding and connecting pages in an unexpected way. Perhaps the Bible/Torah was constructed in the same way, using a technology way beyond our comprehension.

If even one word was misspelled or added/subtracted or changed in the Torah, that it would change all the skip distances, and therefore the words that would be found. I thought that it was possible that the Bible was the "program" for creation, and if we had the way to understand it, through reading the manual that was written in multi-layered/dimensioned forms (hence the skip distances), that we would be able to read our history from beginning to end.

To me, it would seem odd that the Bible would be crafted and edited by men (yet this new evidence is suggesting just that), and it would seem more likely that the Bible was handed down by the gods as their "creation documentation" and then as timelines shifted (if they shifted), the Bible would change accordingly (and we wouldn't know it, except through the Mandela Effect), with new words/phrases being formed from the skip distances, and a different Earth history/future outlined. When making copies of the Bible, it was vital that accuracy be maintained scrupulously, and that any wrong copies be destroyed, which would support the need for the Torah to be kept 100% accurate.

So my question is: How would the Bible Code be accurate if men edited the Bible? Or is the Bible Code not scientific / illuminating human history? Any thoughts?

[Foxie Loxie]

Having been part of the Conned Crowd for most of my life, it is a relief to realize I AM!! :blackwidow:

[thunder24]

A Vatican researcher and translator's conclusion on the matter:

[CENTER]Ex Vatican Translator, Mauro Biglino , Bible Hoax, Alien Manipulation of Man, Genocide, Cloning
8BE-4wmdCpg

What i didn't understand from this interview, is if yahweh was lesser then enlil, and only given dominion over that group how was it that his "religion" and "followers" came to dominate so much...?

[Hervé]

[...]
So my question is: How would the Bible Code be accurate if men edited the Bible? Or is the Bible Code not scientific / illuminating human history? Any thoughts?

That's what I refer to as life times and generations being wasted on sky-hooks and wild goose chase... people can decipher the wildest things out of inkblots...

In other words, if Gmirkin thesis proves to be accurate, it calls for a complete tabula rasa of the subject... poofff! Gone!

[Hervé]

[...]
What i didn't understand from this interview, is if yahweh was lesser then enlil, and only given dominion over that group how was it that his "religion" and "followers" came to dominate so much...?

Hi thunder,

The interview you refer to has been made irrelevant by this other interview I linked to in this other post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<--) since that, according to Gmirkin, the Hebrew texts are a translation and modification of the Greek texts from around 270 BC... a long way for those words for 'em being from "God."

[Foxie Loxie]

@ DebJoy....This is what I love about Avalon! One can sift through all the information & come up with one's own conclusions! It is a bit much to wrap one's mind around the seeming fact that The Bible was simply part of an overall plan to keep control over a major part of humanity. It worked! At this point in time my conclusion is that there was a Jesus, but we lost whatever his original message was because his story was taken over by the Roman Gov't. & made into a system with which to control the masses. That has worked too!! This is all VERY relevant to me because believing that the Bible was THE Word of God ruined my entire life & I truly wanted to find out what the heck happened & why?! Listening to Bill & Kerry's early interviews was the beginning of my starting to find some answers. We each are on our own journey & I feel very blessed to have access to as much information as there is on Avalon, even tho' some of it is above my head! :o I appreciate everyone's patience & kindness! :Angel:

[thunder24]

[...]
What i didn't understand from this interview, is if yahweh was lesser then enlil, and only given dominion over that group how was it that his "religion" and "followers" came to dominate so much...?

Hi thunder,

The interview you refer to has been made irrelevant by this other interview I linked to in this other post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<--) since that, according to Gmirkin, the Hebrew texts are a translation and modification of the Greek texts from around 270 BC... a long way for those words for 'em being from "God."

In regards to the Word of God it may of made it irrelevant, but it doesn't answer my question above, which while maybe off topic Im still interested in the answer even if not from biblical sources..

I did listen to the interview you linked me to above, and can totally see how the interviewee came to his conclusions... Another question for anyone to answer, who would be able to see the fruition of this psy-op? or does that link to secret societies and grand plans and schemes?

[Hervé]

[...]
What i didn't understand from this interview, is if yahweh was lesser then enlil, and only given dominion over that group how was it that his "religion" and "followers" came to dominate so much...?[...]
In regards to the Word of God it may of made it irrelevant, but it doesn't answer my question above, which while maybe off topic Im still interested in the answer even if not from biblical sources..
[...]

Right... how about Gmirkin research demonstrating these characters as fictional... in the same league as Zeus and/or Jupiter?


Another question for anyone to answer, who would be able to see the fruition of this psy-op? or does that link to secret societies and grand plans and schemes? I, now, suspect that many secret societies were/are aware of that subterfuge and that the psy-op template is being extended further back into time with "ETs" and even longer ancestries and blood lines, etc... you know, like many of the current debates in alt-media... to get humanity under another worldwide controlling religious umbrella.

Which is in complete contradiction with the kind of things described in this thread: I told them I was from out in space (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95093-I-told-them-I-was-from-out-in-space) (or even re-incarnation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82914-The-Reincarnation-Trap&p=969693&viewfull=1#post969693) memories from different ethnicities, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1101994&viewfull=1#post1101994) races, etc.)... The "body" maybe from earth, but the "occupant"/spirit comes from totally different quarters... and the "occupant" is then made to believe it is only a "body," subject to - and completely ruled by - heredity, genetics and very mortal.

[thunder24]

Right... how about Gmirkin research demonstrating these characters as fictional... in the same league as Zeus and/or Jupiter?

I, now, suspect that many secret societies were/are aware of that subterfuge and that the psy-op template is being extended further back into time with "ETs" and even longer ancestries and blood lines, etc... you know, like many of the current debates in alt-media... to get humanity under another worldwide controlling religious umbrella.

Which is in complete contradiction with the kind of things described in this thread: I told them I was from out in space (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95093-I-told-them-I-was-from-out-in-space) (or even re-incarnation (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82914-The-Reincarnation-Trap&p=969693&viewfull=1#post969693) memories from different ethnicities, (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1101994&viewfull=1#post1101994) races, etc.)... The "body" maybe from earth, but the "occupant"/spirit comes from totally different quarters... and the "occupant" is then made to believe it is only a "body," subject to - and completely ruled by - heredity, genetics and very mortal.

well i guess to me, it sounds like, from this research and your response, that e.t. is non factor or non existent... which would contradict my paradigm... i can say that... but even if its archetypes, it is totally against the ET factor from what i understand. Am I wrong in that assumption?

[Hervé]

I only tried to answer your question from the historical perspective. For the "ET" involvement, I would refer you to the work of TrumanCash: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)

:focus:

[Franro]

I did read The Bible Code and after about fifty pages it dawned on me. You can find anything you fancy.
Take a newspaper, any newspaper, and write down every 5th or 6th word and i garantee you these words can be linked to anything you want. It's like a piece of paper full of randomly placed dots, you can find a triangle or a square or a butterfly for that matter by connecties dots. So don't be fooled by these cheap cons.

[thunder24]

I only tried to answer your question from the historical perspective. For the "ET" involvement, I would refer you to the work of TrumanCash: MATRIX REVEALED -- Analysis & Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions)

:focus:

i appreciate that herve, i guess i assumed that the gods in old Testament and the Greeks were stories of E.T.s being portrayed as gods, thus why im confused I guess, thanks for your input though.

[Hervé]

some paraphrased excerpts from that interview of post # 13 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106)

Download: OGG (https://media.sott.net/srn/20161211ttp-interview-with-russell-gmirkin-what-does-plato-have-to-do-with-the-bible.ogg), MP3 (https://media.sott.net/srn/20161211ttp-interview-with-russell-gmirkin-what-does-plato-have-to-do-with-the-bible.mp3)


https://media.sott.net/srn/20161211ttp-interview-with-russell-gmirkin-what-does-plato-have-to-do-with-the-bible.mp3


Plato’s Plan on how to create a brand new colony in a new location and create a new government for a new nation and the new citizens who were brought in would end up having total obedience and be so loyal to that new nation that it would last forever.

Plato gave a lot of forethoughts to that problem.

For Plato. The key to it all was to have a set of laws given by god or the gods in very ancient time. That is, that the laws of a nation were supposed to have a divine origin.

It’s kind of modeled on the divine laws of the Spartans and Greeks and a few other countries. For the Spartans, their constitution lasted 400 years and given to the founders of Sparta by Zeus.

Plato stated that it doesn’t matter if we are writing a new set of laws for the nation as long as we can make the people believe these laws are extremely ancient and that they are divine in origin.

There is this crucial passage where Plato stated:
“If there exist laws under which men have been reared up and which, with heaven’s blessing, have remained unaltered for many centuries and for which there exist no recollection or reports for them having been any different from what they are now, then the whole soul is forbidden - by reverence and fear - to ever alter any of the things established in ancient time.

“So, by hook and by crook, by any device possible, our laws must be established by devices and means whereby this shall be true of this state.”

To sell the people that their laws were ancient and divine in origin and to program the consciousness of the nation, the rulers should investigate and incorporate all the local gods and deities and old temples that they can find in their areas; the old altars and ancient sacred laws and ancient festivals – sure, why not - we’ll incorporate these religious traditions into our law code.

Find out who the local priesthoods are and get their support and for inherited lines of priests, give them a role in our new government and we will adopt all legends so that all of this will create an aura of antiquity and a connection to the land and the gods of the land and bring the priests to align with the antiquity and divinity of the new laws.
Additionally, Plato also laid out instructions for creating a national literature. This was really important to his overall strategy.

The most important text would be the law of [?]titude which the Jews call the Torah.

The rulers were supposed to review all literature and everything they had on hand and approve it or reject it, edit it, revise it for compatibility with these divine laws – the law code – and outlaw all foreign literature, books, etc… and the education was done by the state like for soldiers, starting at age 6 in Sparta. Thereby implementing a cultural isolation via censorship left to various councils constituted by members of the ruling class.

Youth will accept anything you teach them using the canonical literature and it would only take a generation or two for the citizens to forget their actual history. They would then come to believe that their laws and their way of life had been revealed to their ancestors by the gods… and that they are ruled, not by kings but by gods.

Back to that guy “Moses” :

Hecataeus of Abdera, Greek writer, went to Egypt and wrote a book for the first king of Egypt that came after Alexander the Great and in which he tells the story of the foundation of Judea and of a colonizing expedition led by a certain Egyptian “Moses” - because Egypt was overpopulated - that went to Judea because it was uninhabited at the time. He came up with 12 tribes and all sorts of laws, wrote a constitution and founded a temple and basically founded Jerusalem and its temple. According to this really typical Greek foundation story [Hecataeus’] written around 315 BC.

The Greeks’ king Ptolemy II Philadelphus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy_II_Philadelphus) who ruled Egypt, read this book by Hecataeus of Abdera and got very curious about the story of how this Egyptian named Moses wrote these laws of the Jews. So that they sent a request to the Jews saying: “We want to know about these laws that we found in this foundation story.” That’s when the Jews sent this delegation of scholars to Alexandria to provide a copy of their laws for the Great Library of Alexandria. These scholars basically took their cue from Hecataeus’ earlier foundation story.

Hecataeus didn’t know anything about the Bible nor ever heard of it [315 BC]

Around 280 BC. Berossus, a Babylonian priest who had access to Sumerian tablets locked up in monastic/temple libraries and, therefore, inaccessible to Jews during their “Babylonian” period, translated some tablets cuneiform content into Greek.

There is a strong similarity between Berossus’ “Pillars of Hercules” and Genesis.

Moses couldn’t have written the ‘book’ attributed to him simply because said book describes Moses’ death as well as the string of kings who followed after Moses’ death. Any need to mention that the Hebrew alphabet didn’t come to exist until 500 years after Moses’ time… so much for the "Word of 'God'" written unchanged/unaltered by Moses... in Hebrew.

======================

So, there you have it: the template/blue print for a NWO, ISIS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89230-When-Vested-Interests-Take-Education-over...&p=1050884&viewfull=1#post1050884) AKA “Islamic State,” Hitler and the Aryan ancestry, or how Constantine received the green light from heaven to switch to the new religion and the ensuing purging of any incompatible literatures and the building of chapels, churches and cathedrals upon ancient pagan sites, etc… along with the division between the “initiated priesthoods/rulers” and the flocks, infidels, goyim, gentiles, etc… that is, the segregation between the programmers/elites/rulers, their “useful idiots” and the programmed.

Plato claimed to have been “inspired” in his musings and writings implying some "divine" input… which brings us to Truman’s “Eye of Ra” and the birth of religions on earth as well as Alex Collier 's "Orion Model (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?46424-Incarceration-as-a-form-of-vengeance&p=507187&viewfull=1#post507187).".

For a different perspective on Plato’s “Republic,” please, do check this article: Athens: Cradle of Pedophilia and Mind Control (http://henrymakow.com/2016/11/athens-cradle-of-pedophilia.html) … and learn about the effective mind control effected on the would-be “citizens” as well as the pedophilic tradition of the “elite” that’s still persisting nowadays.

So, yes, these “elite” do know something we – and especially the good people of the “Book” – do not know… and that’s that it’s all balderdash, gobbledygook and baloney. The whole thing was/is a frigging hoax/psy-op/experiment!

Plato's idea gives a hint as to why these elites' are so obsessed with LOOOONNNG bloodlines, genetic ancestries, etc., that's supposed to give them "antiquity" and altitude over anyone else.

Plato's plan also gives one a clue as to why ignorance has become the preferred curriculum of modern "education."

[Foxie Loxie]

WOW! Thanks so much, Herve, this has all been SO enlightening! :Party::Party:

[Sophocles]

From Leonard Shlain`s The Alphabet vs. the Goddess; The Conflict Between Word and Image (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=The+Alphabet+vs.+the+Goddess) (1998):


Extrapolating the experience of an individual to a culture, I hypothesized that when a critical mass of people within a society aqcuire literacy, especially alphabet literacy, left hemispheric modes of thought are reinforced at the expense of right hemispheric ones, which manifests as a decline in the status of images, women`s rights, and Goddess worship (p. 1).


Forced to learn the rules of grammar, scribes introduced into culture a novel concept: the transcription of codes of human conduct, or The Law. For the unlettered, conduct is regulated by taboos that are acknowledged by everyone in the tribe. Elders and shamans pass down these conventions through oral teaching. Tribal mores discourage individuality; everyone is inextricably enmeshed in the community at large, and in general violating a taboo brings misfortune on everyone. Breaking a law, however, singles out an individual. This significant distinction encourages individuality and ego development in literate societies. Customs organically grow with the maturing of a community; laws press down upon the people and can be initiated and manipulated by a privilevged elite. Scribes transferred the authority previously vested in the shaman`s chanted spells to the written word. Now, an abstraction called a law was in effect even when no one of influence was present. Posted throughout the kingdom on stone steale, these abstractions took on a life on their own, outliving the lawgivers themselves. Civil laws bear the unmistakable imprint of the rules of grammar. They are abstract, authoritative, and elude an ordinary individual`s ability to tamper with them (p. 51).


In A.D. 367, Christians canonized the New Testament, acknowledging the ancient book of the Hebrews as an integral part of their own story. Subsequently, the Muslims did so too. The Old Testamente`s triad of monotheism, Rule by Law, and the command to live ethically eventually became universal Western values (p. 73).


Examining the attitudes toward writing and women`s rights of Athens` three most famous philosophers -Socrates, Plato and Aristotle- will highlight the masculinizing effect of literacy. Socrates preferred the bimodal communication of speach and did not commit his ideas to paper. We know of them because of the writing of his pupil, Plato. Socrates dismissed writing, identifying it as a mere machanism «to remind him who know [about] the things that have been written». Socrates engaged both of his hemispheres in his search for truth. He was confident that the one-on-one give-and-take of debate was a better path to wisdom than sitting alone arguing only with himself and a pot of ink (p. 153).

[Ernie Nemeth]

Yahweh was an interloper. Where that one comes from is a bit of a mystery.

Yaweh is not mentioned in Sumerian texts. Or in Sitchin's work. Yaweh does not seem to be of the Annunaki ilk. Even the name is alien, totally unlike Ea, Enki, Enlil, Nabu, Marduk...

I've given all my Zacharia texts away so I cannot reference other names.

But, given that Yaweh was first called the unknown or unseen god, Yaweh might have been RA - that's Amen Ra, as in the closing of every Christian prayer - amen!

Hope that helps Thunder

[Hervé]

Russell Gmirkin: The "Biblical" ideal king was actually a Greek idea (http://vridar.org/2017/02/09/the-inspiration-for-israels-law-of-the-ideal-king/)

Neil Godfrey
Vridar (http://vridar.org/2017/02/09/the-inspiration-for-israels-law-of-the-ideal-king/) Thu, 09 Feb 2017 19:42 UTC



https://www.sott.net/image/s18/362832/pod/9781138684980.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s18/362832/full/9781138684980.jpg)


The Law of Moses placed limitations on the king that are "without parallel in the ancient Near East. Nowhere do we find legal curbs on the size of the military, the treasury, and the harem." (Berman, 53) From the law in Deuteronomy 17:14-20 we learn that:

The King was to be elected by an assembly of the citizens
The King was subject to written laws that had been prepared by the priests

That is remarkable enough. But elsewhere in Deuteronomy we find other powers that your typical ancient Near Eastern king assigned to others so that according to the same book of law the king had

no judicial powers; he was not even the judge of final appeals
no religious function; he was not the guardian of the cult or temple
no military role, not even in wartime
no responsibility for economic relief of his subjects (e.g. debt remission, manumission)


(Levinson, 529)
All of this is quite unlike the kings we later read about in the history of Israel. Kings like David, Solomon, and their dynastic successors lived and ruled very much like the potentates of kingdoms and empires around them. But our interest here is the ideal king according to the Law of Moses.
Deuteronomy 17:14-20

When you enter the land
that Yhwh your God is giving you, and you possess it and settle in it, should you say:
I will set over me a king
like all the nations that are around me—

you may set, yes, set over you a king that Yhwh your God chooses;
from among your brothers you may set over you a king, you may not place over you a foreign man who is not a brother-person to you.

Only:
he is not to multiply horses for himself,
and he is not to return the people to Egypt in order to multiply horses, since Yhwh has said to you: You will never return that way again!

And he is not to multiply wives for himself, that his heart not be turned-aside,
and silver or gold he is not to multiply for himself to excess.

But it shall be:
when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, he is to write himself a copy of this Instruction in a document, before the presence of [or, that is in the charge of] Levitical priests.

It is to remain beside him, he is to read out of it all the days of his life, in order that he may learn to have-awe-for Yhwh his God, to be-careful concerning all the words of this Instruction and these laws, to observe them,

that his heart not be raised above his brothers, that he not turn-aside from what-is-commanded, to the right or to the left;
in order that he may prolong (his) days over his kingdom, he and his sons, in the midst of Israel.

Everett Fox translation (http://www.bible-researcher.com/schocken.html) The Greek world did know of such restrictions on kings, however.

Aristotle described various types of kingship including the elected and largely ceremonial office of the Athenian king, the Archon Basileus. Aristotle in fact counselled that the most stable monarchies were those with the least powers:
On the other hand it is clear that monarchies, speaking generally, are preserved in safety as a result of the opposite causes to those by which they are destroyed. But taking the different sorts of monarchy separately—royalties are preserved by bringing them into a more moderate form; for the fewer powers the kings have, the longer time the office in its entirety must last, for they themselves become less despotic and more equal to their subjects in temper, and their subjects envy them less. For this was the cause of the long persistence of the Molossian royalty, and that of Sparta has continued because the office was from the beginning divided into two halves, and because it was again limited in various ways by Theopompus, in particular by his instituting the office of the ephors to keep a check upon it; for by taking away some of the kings' power he increased the permanence of the royal office, so that in a manner he did not make it less but greater. This indeed as the story goes is what he said in reply to his wife, when she asked if he felt no shame in bequeathing the royal power to his sons smaller than he had inherited it from his father: "Indeed I do not," he is said to have answered, "for I hand it on more lasting."

Politics, 1313a (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0058%3Abook%3D5%3Asection%3D1313a) From the "classical era" on the Athenian Basileus assigned major cases to the appropriate courts; military leadership was a right assigned to another office, the Polemarch. He did maintain some religious duties and essentially his office was ceremonial.

Other Greek city states had variations of the kingship office: some were elected, others dynastic; some had two kings, others just the one and still others had a panel of kings; some had military and religious duties. In Cyrene the kings were at one point stripped of their military role.

Ancient Near Eastern kings were as far from any thought of being subject to written laws or the supervision of the priests as one can imagine. It was different among the Greeks, however.
The requirement that the duties of the king should be performed in strict conformity to written law is a characteristically Greek notion. The creation of a copy of the law for royal reference is strikingly reminiscent of the publication of Athenian laws at the Royal Stoa. (Gmirkin, 35)
https://www.sott.net/image/s18/376681/large/royalstoa.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s18/376681/full/royalstoa.jpg)
Royal Stoa in Athens


Plato (as did Aristotle) emphasised the importance of all offices being subject to laws:
For wherever in a State the law is subservient and impotent, over that State I see ruin impending; but wherever the law is lord over the magistrates, and the magistrates are servants to the law, there I descry salvation and all the blessings that the gods bestow on States.

Laws, 3:715d (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0166%3Abook%3D4%3Asection%3D715d) The Torah of the King (Deut 17:18-20) requiring the Israelite king to write out the laws for himself. The idea that the king should become very familiar with the laws and perform his responsibilities in strict accordance to the laws is, Russell Gmirkin stresses,
unequivocally a reflection of Greek political notions. (Gmirkin, 36) Compare what we read in the Hellenistic writing of Hecataeus of Abdera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecataeus_of_Abdera) in his Aegyptica, as we read paraphrased in Diodorus Siculus (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/1D*.html#ref70):
In the first place, then, the life which the kings of the Egyptians lived was not like that of other men who enjoy autocratic power and do in all matters exactly as they please without being held to account, but all their acts were regulated by prescriptions set forth in laws, not only their administrative acts, but also those that had to do with the way in which they spent their time from day to day . . .

Strange as it may appear that the king did not have the entire control of his daily fare, far more remarkable still was the fact that kings were not allowed to render any legal decision or transact any business at random or to punish anyone through malice or in anger or for any other unjust reason, but only in accordance with the established laws . . . . Subject to guidance of the priests

The passage describes a utopian state of affairs with priests guiding the daily affairs of the king (all the king's servants were even sons of priests!) and with all the subjects living happily ever after as a consequence of such a king.

Further on we read of the Persian king, Darius, studied the laws of Egypt diligently with the priests, again with a utopian society the outcome. (I read that Darius also made a copy of these laws but I am uncertain of the source of that claim):
A sixth man to concern himself with the laws of the Egyptians, it is said, was Darius the father of Xerxes; for he was incensed at the lawlessness which his predecessor, Cambyses, had shown in the treatment of the sanctuaries of Egypt, and aspired to live a life of virtue and of piety towards the gods.

Indeed he associated with the priests of Egypt themselves, and took part with them in the study of theology and of the events recorded in their sacred books; and when he learned from these books about the greatness of soul of the ancient kings and about their goodwill towards their subjects he imitated their manner of life. For this reason he was the object of such great honour that he alone of all the kings was addressed as a god by the Egyptians in his lifetime, while at his death he was accorded equal honours with the ancient kings of Egypt who had ruled in strictest accord with the laws.

6 The system, then, of law used throughout the land was the work, they say, of the men just named, and gained a renown that spread among other peoples everywhere; Hecataeus (again via Diodorus Siculus, 40:3-4 (http://attalus.org/translate/diodorus40.html)) further depicted a time when Moses chose all the wisest and most capable of men to become priests and judges and to manage all matters pertaining to justice and customs in the state.

Not that Hecataeus was describing historical reality. Rather, his writings represented "Greek political notions foreign to both Egyptians and Jews of pre-Hellenistic times." (That is, before 300 BCE.)

In all of Hecataeus's scenarios he portrays the priests as acting like censors of citizens' behaviour, guardians of the law, or nomophylakes to be technical. Priests in this role "acted as supervisors and legal advisors to the kings of Egypt." The office of nomophylakes was a feature of many Greek city-states. Aristotle described their function in Athenian Constitution 4:4 and 8:4:
guardian of the laws . . . kept a watch on the magistrates to make them govern in accordance with the laws . . .

the duty of guarding the laws, just as it had existed even before as overseer . . . that kept watch over the greatest and the most important of the affairs of state, in particular correcting offenders with sovereign powers . . . The nomophylakes supervised both the behaviour of the magistrates and the general public.
The explicit role of the levitical priests as guardians and public advocates of the written laws that were to be obeyed by the magistrates and people alike, and implicit responsibility for educating the king in his duties of office via these writings and enforcing the written statutes upon the king, casts the levitical priests in the distinctly Greek office of nomophylakes, the same office given the priestly successors of Moses in the foundation story by Hecataeus. (Gmirkin, 36) Hecataeus on the priests:
The leader of this colony was one Moses, a very wise and valiant man, who, after he had possessed himself of the country, amongst other cities, built that now most famous city, Jerusalem, and the temple there, which is so greatly revered among them. He instituted the holy rites and ceremonies with which they worship God; and made laws for the methodical government of the state. . . . He also picked out the most accomplished men, who were best fitted to rule and govern the whole nation, and he appointed them to be priests, whose duty was continually to attend in the temple, and employ themselves in the public worship and service of God.

He also made them judges, for the decision of the most serious cases, and committed to their care the preservation of their laws and customs. Therefore they say that the Jews have never had any king; but that the leadership of the people has always been entrusted to a priest, who excels all the rest in prudence and virtue. They call him the chief priest, and they regard him as the messenger and interpreter of the mind and commands of God. . . . . . . This is what Hecataeus of Abdera has related about the Jews. Gmirkin reminds us to compare the writings of Plato in this context.
It is interesting that in Plato's Republic, where the phyla's or Guardians constituted a special tribe of philosopher-kings, the phylakes were to possess neither land nor houses (Republic 3.341d-417e), much like the biblical tribe of Levites in Deut. 12.12, 18-19; 14.22-27; 18.1-2; Josh. 13.14, 33; 18.7 (but unlike the Levites who possessed cities and houses at Lev. 25.32-34; Josh. 21.1-42). (Gmirkin, 64)

Sources:

Berman, J. 2008. Created equal: how the Bible broke with ancient political thought (https://www.librarything.com/work/7568999/book/135339143). Oxford : Oxford University Press.
Gmirkin, R.E. 2016. Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (https://www.librarything.com/work/18648998/book/134775923). Milton : Taylor and Francis.
Levinson, B. 2001. "The Reconceptualization of Kingship in Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomistic History's Transformation of Torah." Vetus Testamentum, Vol. 51, no. 4: 511-534.


Continuing my series on Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (https://www.librarything.com/work/18648998/book/134775923) by Russell Gmirkin in which it is argued that the Pentateuch owes a heavy debt to the Greek philosophical and political writings of the Greeks located in the Great Library of Alexandria.

Previous posts:

Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (http://vridar.org/2016/10/16/plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/)
The Pentateuch's Debt to Greek Laws and Constitutions — A New Look (http://vridar.org/2016/10/26/the-pentateuchs-debt-to-greek-laws-and-constitutions-a-new-look/)
David, an Ideal Greek Hero — and other Military Matters in Ancient Israel (http://vridar.org/2016/11/12/comparing-greek-and-biblical/)
Some preliminaries before resuming Gmirkin's (http://vridar.org/2016/12/15/some-preliminaries-before-resuming-gmirkins-plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/)Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible (http://vridar.org/2016/12/15/some-preliminaries-before-resuming-gmirkins-plato-and-the-creation-of-the-hebrew-bible/)
The Tribes of Israel modeled on the Athenian and Ideal Greek Tribes? (http://vridar.org/2016/12/16/the-tribes-of-israel-modeled-on-the-athenian-and-ideal-greek-tribes/)
The Bible's Assemblies and Offices Based on Greek Institutions? (http://vridar.org/2017/01/22/the-bibles-assemblies-and-offices-based-on-greek-institutions/)
Similarities between Biblical and Greek Judicial Systems (http://vridar.org/2017/01/28/similarities-between-biblical-and-greek-judicial-systems/)

===================================================

See posts #13 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) and #33 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232)

[Bill Ryan]

I've given all my Zecharia [Sitchin] texts away so I cannot reference other names.



Most of them are now here: :thumbsup:


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks

[Hervé]

Plato's administrative division of conquered territories into "Tribes" leading to the justification that ten of them got "lost' and the blueprint for the "Holy Roman Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire)':


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZqSpYsYWcSQ/V7YvhZ4Qf4I/AAAAAAAAKQM/FAtjhtRGzTYFQTbpdFAl3LhU-I5nq9axgCLcB/s1600/RDTI4.jpg

... with Napoleon and Hitler attempts at recreating it...

[East Sun]

Didn't the Catholic Church do that, meaning, take other peoples beliefs and incorporate them into Christianity.
That is the greatest slap in the face to indigenous people's beliefs IMO.

[Praxis]

East Sun,

Yes the Catholic church took many traditions(Yggdrasil, Mistletoe, St Nick, etc.) to get those pagans to join their new group.

Herve,

Why did Plato want to accomplish this trick?
Furthermore, What do you make of Graham Hancock and Robert Bauvals book about the Cathars?

It seems to me that someone is trying to destroy the real message by piling on garbage onto it. John 1-5 is SUPER different from most ideas in the bible if you really take a moment to its meaning. Language is power. Without language we have nothing. No society, No religion, NOTHING. We are animals in the state of nature. the word is important. With that in mind, go think about John 1 -5.

I must admit, I believe the idea of Hancock and Bauval that there are(i know this is a simplification) two forces in a fight and we see this fight manifest in our religions and culture. So was Plato a baddy? Because this war predates 10 000 IMHO.

[Ewan]

So was Plato a baddy?

I'd say no. I always felt he was revealing things, rather like opening curtains to let the light shine in. What a psychopath does with the information he points out is outside his control, it only leaves the debate on whether he should have stayed quiet in the first place.

If a thousand people reads his words and wake-up, great.
If only one reads them and uses the information as a blueprint to enslave ten thousand, promptly holding a book-burning session upon inauguration, not so great.

[Hervé]

'As important as the scientific discoveries of Darwin and Galileo': Linguist Francesco Carotta demonstrates the real identity of 'Jesus Christ' to be Julius Caesar (http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/jesus-was-caesar-new-book-by-philosopher-and-linguist-francesco-carotta-claims-that-the-real-identity-of-jesus-christ-has-been-discovered-154575075.html)

PR Newswire (http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/jesus-was-caesar-new-book-by-philosopher-and-linguist-francesco-carotta-claims-that-the-real-identity-of-jesus-christ-has-been-discovered-154575075.html)
Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:25 UTC



Carotta:
'Everything of the Story of Jesus can be Found in the Biography of Caesar.' The Italian-German linguist and philosopher Francesco Carotta proves in his book Jesus was Caesar that the story of Jesus Christ has its origin in Roman sources. After more than fifteen years of investigation Carotta has found the traces which lead to the Julian origin of Christianity. He concludes that the story of Jesus is based on the narrative of the life of Julius Caesar.
Carotta:
''The Gospel proves to be the history of the Roman Civil war, a 'mis-telling' of the life of Caesar-from the Rubicon to his assassination-mutated into the narrative of Jesus, from the Jordan to his crucifixion. Jesus is a true historical figure, he lived as Gaius Julius Caesar, and ressurected as Divus Julius.'' The cult surrounding Jesus Christ, son of God and originator of Christianity appeared during the second century. Early historians, however, never mentioned Jesus and even to this day there has been no historical proof of his existence. Julius Caesar, 'son of Venus' and founder of the Roman Empire, was elevated to the status of Imperial God, Divus Julius, after his violent death. The cult that surrounded him dissolved as Christianity surfaced.


https://www.sott.net/image/s7/146569/large/51CNJHJ6NVL.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s7/146569/full/51CNJHJ6NVL.jpg)


Carotta's new evidence leads to such an overwhelming amount of similarities between the biography of Caesar and the story of Jesus that coincidence can be ruled out.


https://www.sott.net/image/s7/146571/medium/cesar_arles.png (https://www.sott.net/image/s7/146571/full/cesar_arles.png)



Both Caesar and Jesus start their rising careers in neighboring states in the north: Gallia and Galilee.



Both have to cross a fateful river: the Rubicon and the Jordan. Once across the rivers, they both come across a patron/rival: Pompeius and John the Baptist, and their first followers: Antonius and Curio on the one hand and Peter and Andrew on the other.



Both are continually on the move, finally arriving at the capital, Rome and Jerusalem, where they at first triumph, yet subsequently undergo their passion.



Both have good relationships with women and have a special relationship with one particular woman, Caesar with Cleopatra and Jesus with Magdalene.



Both have encounters at night, Caesar with Nicomedes of Bithynia, Jesus with Nicodemus of Bethany.



Both have an affinity to ordinary people-and both run afoul of the highest authorities: Caesar with the Senate, Jesus with the Sanhedrin.



Both are contentious characters, but show praiseworthy clemency as well: the clementia Caesaris and Jesus' Love-thy-enemy.



Both have a traitor: Brutus and Judas. And an assassin who at first gets away: the other Brutus and Barabbas. And one who washes his hands of it: Lepidus and Pilate.



Both are accused of making themselves kings: King of the Romans and King of the Jews. Both are dressed in red royal robes and wear a crown on their heads: a laurel wreath and a crown of thorns.



Both get killed: Caesar is stabbed with daggers, Jesus is crucified, but with a stab wound in his side.



Jesus as well as Caesar hang on a cross. For a reconstruction of the crucifixion of Caesar, see here (http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/jwc_e/crux.html#images).


https://www.sott.net/image/s7/146568/large/notes_3.gif (https://www.sott.net/image/s7/146568/full/notes_3.gif)



Both die on the same respective dates of the year: Caesar on the Ides (15 th) of March, Jesus on the 15 th of Nisan.



Both are deified posthumously: as Divus Iulius and as Jesus Christ.



Caesar and Jesus also use the same words, e.g.: Caesar's famous Latin 'Veni, vidi, vici' - I came, I saw, I conquered - is in the Gospel transmitted into: 'I came, washed and saw', whereby Greek enipsa, 'I washed', replaces enikisa, 'I conquered'.

Prominent European scholars and intellectuals are jubilant:
'This report is of the same order of importance as the scientific discoveries of Darwin and Galileo.'

¬ Paul Cliteur, Ph. D., University of Leiden, The Netherlands


'Reading Francesco Carotta's book has fascinated me, ...leading the mind of the reader step by step to the solution of an obscure intrigue. This voyage was like a liberating and exhilarating breath of fresh air.'

¬ Fotis Kavoukopoulos Ph. D., an international expert in linguistics, Athens, Greece


'New connections which have never been seen that way'.

¬ Erika Simon Ph.D. Germany Francesco Carotta, Jesus was Caesar. On the Julian Origin of Christianity (http://www.amazon.com/dp/9059113969), available from Amazon.

[Foxie Loxie]

Reminds me of the book, "Caesar's Messiah". It's amazing to see how many people are waking up to the fact that humanity has been manipulated for so many centuries! :ROFL:

[Hervé]

The book that turned America's Evangelicals Zionist: The Scofield Bible (https://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/the-scofield-bible-the-book-that-made-zionists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html)

Maidhc Ó Cathail Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (https://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/the-scofield-bible-the-book-that-made-zionists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html)
Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:51 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s22/443640/medium/bb23_ScoClassicMASTERXL_4.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s22/443640/full/bb23_ScoClassicMASTERXL_4.jpg)


"For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
-The New Scofield Study Bible
Since it was first published in 1909, the Scofield Reference Bible has made uncompromising Zionists out of tens of millions of Americans. When John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), said that "50 million evangelical bible-believing Christians unite with five million American Jews standing together on behalf of Israel," it was the Scofield Bible that he was talking about.

Although the Scofield Reference Bible contains the text of the King James Authorized Version, it is not the traditional Protestant bible but Cyrus I. Scofield's annotated commentary that is problematic. More than any other factor, it is Scofield's notes that have induced generations of American evangelicals to believe that God demands their uncritical support for the modern State of Israel.

Blessing Israel, Cursing Its Critics
Central to Christian Zionist belief is Scofield's commentary (italicized below) on Genesis 12:3:
"'I will bless them that bless thee.' In fulfillment closely related to the next clause, 'And curse him that curseth thee.' Wonderfully fulfilled in the history of the dispersion. It has invariably fared ill with the people who have persecuted the Jew - well with those who have protected him. The future will still more remarkably prove this principle."
Drawing on Scofield's rather tendentious interpretation, Hagee claims, "The man or nation that lifts a voice or hand against Israel invites the wrath of God."

But as Stephen Sizer points out in his definitive critique, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon? (available from AET's Middle East Books and More (https://www.middleeastbooks.com/products/christian-zionism-road-map-to-armageddon-by-stephen-sizer)):
"The promise, when referring to Abraham's descendants, speaks of God blessing them, not of entire nations 'blessing' the Hebrew nation, still less the contemporary and secular State of Israel."
Notwithstanding this more orthodox reading, The New Scofield Study Bible, published by Oxford University Press in 1984, intensified Scofield's interpretation by adding,
"For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
"Sustained by a dubious exegesis of selective biblical texts," Sizer concludes,
"Christian Zionism's particular reading of history and contemporary events...sets Israel and the Jewish people apart from other peoples in the Middle East...it justifies the endemic racism intrinsic to Zionism, exacerbates tensions between Jews and Palestinians and undermines attempts to find a peaceful resolution of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, all because 'the Bible tells them so.'"
The Incredible Scofield
In his 2008 book, The Rise of Israel: A History of a Revolutionary State, Jonathan R. Adelman describes the crucial support Israel receives from Christian fundamentalists as "totally fortuitous." That assertion is belied, however, by the incredible career of the man who wrote "the Bible of Fundamentalism."

Two years after Scofield's reported conversion to Christianity in 1879, the Atchison Patriot was less than impressed. Describing the former Atchison resident as the "late lawyer, politician and shyster generally," the article went on to recount a few of Scofield's "many malicious acts." These included a series of forgeries in St. Louis, for which he was sentenced to six months in jail.

Being a "born again" preacher did not preclude Scofield from becoming a member of an exclusive New York men's club in 1901, either. In his devastating biography, The Incredible Scofield and His Book, Joseph M. Canfield suggests,
"The admission of Scofield to the Lotus Club, which could not have been sought by Scofield, strengthens the suspicion that has cropped up before, that someone was directing the career of C.I. Scofield."
That someone, Canfield suspects, was associated with one of the club's committee members, the Wall Street lawyer Samuel Untermeyer. As Canfield intimates, Scofield's theology was "most helpful in getting Fundamentalist Christians to back the international interest in one of Untermeyer's pet projects - the Zionist Movement."

Others have been even more explicit about the nature of Scofield's service to the Zionist agenda. In "Unjust War Theory: Christian Zionism and the Road to Jerusalem," Prof. David W. Lutz writes, "Untermeyer used Scofield, a Kansas City lawyer with no formal training in theology, to inject Zionist ideas into American Protestantism. Untermeyer and other wealthy and influential Zionists whom he introduced to Scofield promoted and funded the latter's career, including travel in Europe."

On one of these European trips, Oxford University Press publisher Henry Frowde "expressed immediate interest" in Scofield's project. According to a biography of Frowde, although the OUP publisher was "[n]ot demonstrative in his religious views, all his Christian life he was associated with brethren known as 'Exclusive.'" The "Exclusive Brethren" refers to the group of Christian evangelicals that, in an 1848 split in the Plymouth Brethren, followed John Nelson Darby, the Anglo-Irish missionary generally considered to have been the most influential figure in the development of Christian Zionism, and a major influence on Scofield.

Scofield's Legacy
Had the Scofield Bible never been published, American presidents influenced by Christian Zionism such as Truman, Johnson, Reagan and George W. Bush might have been less sympathetic to Israeli demands, and consequently more attentive to U.S. interests. Moreover, the American people could have been spared the pseudo-Christian rants of John Hagee, Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell, not to mention the lucrative End Times Rapture "prophecy" peddled by Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye.

But it is the people of the Middle East who have been most affected by an expansionist Israel emboldened by the unswerving allegiance of Christian Zionists led to believe that Scofield's words are God's will. Not least among the many victims of the Scofield Bible are 5 million Palestinian refugees whose right to return is fervently opposed by America's Zionized Christians. Thanks to their indoctrination by Scofield's unholy book, they believe that Palestine belongs not to the Palestinians - many of whom are fellow Christians - but exclusively to "God's chosen people."

======================================

Adding insults to Plato's injuries (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232)... it seems that Balfour was already in the works and Tavistock (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101058-The-Father-of-Psy-Ops-Sigmund-Fraud) well on its way.

[Foxie Loxie]

Soooooo true about the Scofield Bible!! As one who has risen from that "field", it is good to learn the history which I never knew about said Scofield. I wonder exactly WHEN this "system" was put in place concerning a Zionist Movement & who exactly was "guiding" it to fruition?! Talk about controlling world history!! :doh:

[Valerie Villars]

For me, it goes way beyond any discussions of the Bible and whether Jesus was Cesar, etc. It is all about the original archetypes as conceived in the mind of God. That is where the real truth lies, in my opinion. All life is holographic and therefore all we see is. It is the truth behind the archetypes that is important and not whether this or that person was or was not. Who or what resonates in your heart? What attributes do you identify with? That is real truth.

It doesn't matter if Job, for instance, really existed. The essence of what he represents is the truth.

Any beliefs beyond the original conceptions is just a big, muddy river.

[Hervé]

OK, Villival...

First, some dispelling about the "Reality is a hologram" meme: a hologram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holography) is an interference pattern of a coherent beam of light (LASER (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser)) with itself and doesn't construct anything that has physical solidity... on the other hand, many an individual have ran head first into glass doors which they had no idea were there nor seen and ended up in hospitals... never mind blind people keeping bumping into things which they have no idea/concept of what's there, or not, but keep bumping into those "solid" things of this 3D physical reality.

Now, about "Archetypes" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype) and the recurrent themes across time and localities, etc... well, what about carefully planned psy-ops similar to the current one about the "Russians": a whole majority of the planet's population is being hard worked on to adopt the inner conviction that it's all Putin's fault/propaganda. Sure, that takes some gigantic programming of a planet's mind, but anyone is fairly well implanted with the "The Russians are coming" archetype... right? Even if it is to laugh at it, it's nonetheless there.

To further help to comprehend that "archetype" thingy implanted into a planet's population mind, one would need to consider some of the ways such a programming can be/has been achieved such as explained by Truman Cash (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions) in his "The Programming Of A Planet" (http://projectavalon.net/Truman_Cash_The_Programming_of_a_Planet.pdf) PDF book... long, long ago, on a planet near you.

So, I am rather inclined to consider those "archetypal essences" projected onto some inkblot symbols to be rather the results of implanted programming than anything else.

As for this thread, it is titled so as to demonstrate in its content what said "Word of God" actually is... henceforth: :focus:

[Valerie Villars]

Thanks, Herve. You are right to lead on. I'm not equipped to argue points in that way. Psy ops or not. I guess I need an academic command on the same level as you, which I just don't have on any provable level. :bigsmile:

[Valerie Villars]

By the way, by holographic I meant looking at something and then seeing there is really something else there, by changing your perspective. It's all good.

[Hervé]

For a "modern" version of Plato's "Plan" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232), have a look at this:

Putin: Communist ideology similar to Christianity, Lenin’s body like saintly relics (https://www.rt.com/news/415883-putin-communist-ideology-christianity/)

RT World News (https://www.rt.com/news/)
Published time: 14 Jan, 2018 18:04
Edited time: 15 Jan, 2018 06:28
Get short URL (https://on.rt.com/8wwb)


https://cdni.rt.com/files/2018.01/article/5a5b6d23fc7e935a1b8b4567.jpg
© Vladmir Vyatkin / Sputnik


Russian President Vladimir Putin has likened communism to Christianity and Vladimir Lenin’s mausoleum in Moscow’s Red Square to the veneration of the relics of saints.

“Maybe I’ll say something that someone might dislike, but that’s the way I see it,” Putin said in an interview for the documentary Valaam, an excerpt of which was broadcast on Russia 1.
“First of all, faith has always accompanied us, becoming stronger every time our country, our people, have been through hard times.

“There were those years of militant atheism when priests were eradicated, churches destroyed, but at the same time a new religion was being created. Communist ideology is very similar to Christianity, in fact: freedom, equality, brotherhood, justice – everything is laid out in the Holy Scripture, it’s all there. And the code of the builder of communism? This is sublimation, it’s just such a primitive excerpt from the Bible, nothing new was invented.”
Putin went further by comparing the Communists’ attitude to the Bolshevik leader Lenin to the veneration of saints in Christianity.
“Look, Lenin was put in a mausoleum. How is this different from the relics of saints for Orthodox Christians and just for Christians? When they say that there’s no such tradition in Christianity, well, how come, go to Athos and take a look, there are relics of the saints there, and we have holy relics here,” Putin concluded.
After Lenin died in 1924, his body was embalmed and put on display in a mausoleum in Red Square, Moscow. The cult of Lenin was part of Soviet ideology. The public debate about the possibility of giving Lenin’s remains a proper burial began during the early days of Perestroika in the 1980s.

Putin’s words were music to the ears of Communist Party members. “I think these words of the president very effectively and reasonably smooth out the acute angles around the theme of the mausoleum,” Deputy Chairman of the State Duma Ivan Melnikov said on Sunday, as cited by Interfax.

He said however, that “communists and all the leftist patriotic forces [in Russia] understand that communism is close to Christianity as much as the form of capitalism that exists in our country and our economy today is far from Christianity.”

Earlier this year, Gennadiy Zyuganov, the head of the Russian Communist Party, said Putin had promised him that as long as he remains president, Lenin’s body would remain in the mausoleum in Red Square.

“As long as I sit here, there will be no barbarism in Red Square,” the Communist chief quoted Putin as saying at a conference with Russian party leaders.

According to Zyuganov, Putin also dismissed allegations that Lenin was not buried in accordance with Christian traditions. “As far as the form of the burial is concerned, they used the one that is also used in Orthodox Christianity – he lies a meter and a half below the ground level. Sepultures and cave burials have been known for a long time,” Putin said (https://www.rt.com/politics/398319-putin-promised-to-keep-lenin/), according to Zyuganov.


Related:
Revolutionary corpse: Why and how Russia still preserves Lenin in its heart (https://www.rt.com/news/409110-lenin-preserved-mausoleum-row/)

Putin promised to keep Lenin’s body in Moscow mausoleum, communists say (https://www.rt.com/politics/398319-putin-promised-to-keep-lenin/)

[Hervé]

3,000 year old drawing of god found in Sinai could undermine our entire idea of Judaism (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-strange-drawing-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-judaism-1.5973328)

Nir Hasson Haaretz (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-strange-drawing-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-judaism-1.5973328)
Wed, 04 Apr 2018 12:00 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460891/large/1_5973287_1308102802.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460891/full/1_5973287_1308102802.jpg)
Is that a 3,000-year-old picture of god, his penis and his wife depicted by early Jews at Kuntillet Ajrud?


More than four decades after its excavation wound down, a small hill in the Sinai Desert continues to bedevil archaeologists (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology). The extraordinary discoveries made at Kuntillet Ajrud, an otherwise nondescript slope in the northern Sinai, seem to undermine one of the foundations of Judaism as we know it.

Then, it seems, "the Lord our God" wasn't "one God." He may have even had a wife, going by the completely unique "portrait" of the Jewish deity that archaeologists found at the site, which may well be the only existing depiction of YHWH.

Kuntillet Ajrud got its name, meaning "the isolated hill of the water sources," from wells at the foot of the hill. It is a remote spot in the heart of the desert, far from any town or trade route. But for a short time around 3,000 years ago, it served as a small way station.

Dozens of drawings and inscriptions, resembling nothing whatever found anywhere else in our region, survived from that period, which seems to have lasted no longer than two or three decades. Egypt gained the artifacts with the peace treaty with Israel 25 years ago, but the release of the report on the excavation six years ago and a book about the site two years ago have kept the argument over the exceptional findings from the hill in Sinai alive.

The hill lies 50 kilometers south of Kadesh Barnea and 15 kilometers west of the ancient Darb el-Ghazza route, which led from Gaza to the Read Sea's Gulf of Eilat. Its unique qualities were first noticed in 1870 by the British explorer Edward Palmer who discovered a fragment of a clay jar, a pithos, marked with the Hebrew letter aleph.


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460893/large/1760744912.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460893/full/1760744912.jpg)
Kuntillet Ajrud.


Later, in 1902, a Czech orientalist and explorer, Alois Musil but was attacked by local Bedouins who claimed that he was defiling a holy site. Exploration would only resume in 1975, by the Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Meshel, as a collaboration between the university and the Israel Exploration Society.

The excavation showed that Kuntillat Ajrud was what's called a "single-layer site," meaning, it had been occupied for just one period, which the excavators dated to the late ninth century or early eighth century B.C.E.

Meshel estimated that it had been occupied very briefly, 25 years at most. Structure-wise, the excavators only found two fairly simple, unimpressive structures. The wonder lay in the drawings and inscriptions.


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460894/large/1800308997.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460894/full/1800308997.jpg)
Ancient Hebrew writing on the rim of a bowl found at Kuntillet Ajrud, dating to about 3,000 years ago


Clay from Jerusalem
At first the archaeologists thought that the place was a military fortress. Other fortresses from the First Temple period had been found in the Negev. But no evidence that there had been a military presence was found, and in the third excavation season, Meshel decided that the structures weren't that sort.

Nor would Kuntillet Ajrud have been suitable as an inn for travelers: it was too small and was off the beaten track. Nor did it seem to match any of the criteria of a trade station.


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460895/large/3887210608.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460895/full/3887210608.jpg)
Ancient Hebrew writing found at Kuntillet Ajrud


The first hint at the true character of Kuntillet Ajrud was the discovery of pottery fragments inscribed with ancient Hebrew letters: quf, quf resh, aleph and yud.

Analysis of the clay from which the pithos (pottery jars) was intriguing. The pots were made of hawar motza, clay only found by Jerusalem. In other words, the jars had been made in area of Jerusalem, which was certainly far away.

Among the inscriptions were a blessing and religious texts. That and the origin of the clay suggested to Meshel that the residents were priests (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/priestly-quarter-of-ancient-jerusalem-found-on-mt-zion-1.5409239) and Levites, who were supported by tithes collected in the Temple in Jerusalem (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-governor-of-jerusalem-s-sealing-from-first-temple-era-found-near-western-wall-1.5630145).


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460896/large/3500680049.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460896/full/3500680049.jpg)
Animal images found at Kuntillet Ajrud


In line with the spirit of this interpretation, he also interpreted the letters on the dishes: quf as standing for kodesh (holy), quf-resh as the first two letters in the word korban (sacrifice), and aleph for a korban asham (guilt offering).

The letter yud, Meshel suggests, may represent a vessel that had been used to continued tithes, though he himself casts doubt on that theory: "In First Temple times, they used Egyptian numbers," he points out.

Another inscription found there argues that the hill had been peopled by a literate elite and even hints at the presence of a school. One vessel contains the Hebrew alphabet twice - one in the crisp, competent handwriting of a well-trained scribe and another in what researchers suspect was the hesitant handwriting of a student (https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/MAGAZINE-400-000-year-old-school-of-rock-found-in-prehistoric-cave-in-israel-1.5626671).

If all this is true, what was a small group of priests and Levites doing in the middle of the desert?

When King Yoash conquered Judah
Meshel thinks the people dwelling at the site were providing an essential service: writing blessings. But from who, for who? The story gets even more complicated when one examines the site through the lens of geopolitics.

At the time the hill was occupied, the kingdom of Israel existed in the north, ruled from Samaria. The kingdom of Judah existed in the south and had its capital in Jerusalem.

However, the names and inscriptions found at Kuntillat Ajrud seem to be Israelite, not Judahite. It seems to have been an Israelite site - far, far to the south of Israel and even south of the Judah border.


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460898/large/1308102802.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460898/full/1308102802.jpg)
Reconstruction of what may be the image of King Yoash, possibly the only known contemporary portrait of a Judahite king. Found at Kuntillet Ajrud


Why would one kingdom maintain a religious site at the far end of another kingdom?

Meshel thinks the Israelite presence in or beyond the Judean kingdom, and the fact that Jerusalem (the capital of Judah) provisioned this way station of the rival kingdom, indicates that at the time the kingdom of Israel was, or was turning into, a regional power.

Judah was a vassal state subject to the more powerful northern kingdom, he thinks.

As for why Judahite Jerusalem would provision this Israelite-manned hilltop in the middle of nowhere, Meshel suspects it all comes down to Kuntillat Ajrud having been founded by none other than King Yoash of Israel.
"The bible says that war broke out between Amatzia, king of Judah, and Yoash, king of Israel," he says. Thus the Israelite king Yoash gained control of Judah.

https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460899/large/1326198385.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460899/full/1326198385.jpg)
Kuntillet Ajrud


It would have been convenient for Yoash to provision Kuntillat Ajrud from the Temple in Judah. Why would he have sent up north to bring supplies for it from Israel, Meshel asks rhetorically.

If indeed Meshel is right and King Yoash founded the site, he may be the figure drawn on plaster at the entrance of the building.

The drawing, possibly of the king, was restored by Prof. Pirhiya Bar based on similar drawings from the ancient east, in which the royal figure holds a lotus flower. It is a reasonable possibility that the figure depicted at Kuntillet Ajrud was a ruler or king, and if so, then it is the only contemporary visual description we have of a king from biblical times.
"I told myself look at the luck I had, finding the only drawing of a king from the First Temple period," says Meshel.
A picture of God, and is that his tail
Kuntillet Ajrud also brought images of animals, humans and what seems to be gods.


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460897/large/1308102802.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460897/full/1308102802.jpg)
Depiction of god and his wife? Found at Kuntillet Ajrud


The one causing the controversy shows a man and a women, drawn naively, with crowned heads and holding hands. The man has either a tail or a large penis, and above him the blessing "Yahweh and his Asherah" is written.

Could the couple on the pithos be a rendering of God and his wife Asherah, the only one ever found?

Dr. Yigal Bin Nun, a researcher and author of "A Brief History of YHWH." has no doubt.
"If you want to step away from reality then you can say this or that, but if you look at it as it is you can't ignore the truth," he says.
Among the detractors are Prof. Tallay Ornan, who has studied the images at the site, and Prof. Shmuel Ahituv, an acclaimed ancient inscriptions researcher. Both contributed to a book on the topic together with Meshel and Esther Eshel, published last year.

They think these figures show the minor Egyptian deity Bes, not YHWH, the Jewish god.
"Bes is a dwarf who was the deity of witches," Ahituv says, adding that in his view, the picture shown wouldn't befit a major divinity.
Defending the picture as that of YHWH, Ben Nun an Israelite religious site on the border of Judah, under the political auspices of Assyria, would be unlikely to hail Bes, or any Egyptian god or symbol. Egypt was considered hostile.
"The Bes explanation is completely illogical," Ben Nun says.
Furthermore, it's hard to make sense of the writing "YHWH and his Asherah" without suspecting that this god, at least according to the people on this hill, was married.

God of the south and god of the north
Other phrases found at the site also challenge the known pantheon of Israelite faith. "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Samaria and his

These are doubly outrageous. If God is one, then how can there be god for the north (Shomron) and for the south (Yemen, still called Teman in Hebrew)?

To make matters worse, does the word "Asherah," formulated as "his Asherah", hint that the gods of Israel had a wife? If so, where has she gone?

For Meshel, the site's main researcher, the issue remains unresolved.


https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460900/large/1308102802.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s23/460900/full/1308102802.jpg)
"pithos" Kuntillet Ajrud


He and Ben Nun suspect the site brings insight to the beliefs of the people living here 3,000 years ago. They did not worship a single al-powerful deity: they were devoted to a pantheon of gods.

It has also long been known that households with Jewish hallmarks, certainly in the First Temple era and later too, also had images of other gods, a.k.a, figurines.

If anything the discoveries at Kuntillet Ajrud indicate that in the late ninth century B.C.E. or the early eighth, the idea of a single deity had not yet consolidated, suggests Meshel. "In this religious reality YHWH is local, for the city, the village, for Shomron and for Teman (Yemen)."

Ashera the tree?
The sheer fact that Kuntillet Ajrud was so far-flung is what enabled it to survive, Meshel further claims - albeit not for long.

Come the seventh century B.C.E., Josiah King of Judah spearheaded a profound religious reformation, that included centralizing ritual sacrifice in Jerusalem and destroying competing sites.

By that time, Kuntillet Ajrud was long since abandoned. Meshel suspects the kingdom simply forgot about it.

Ahituv rejects this whole analysis and thinks that Ashera referred to a tree. Or maybe a thing or place. But not an independent female divinity.
"If you look at the Bible you can see that there is no sacrifice for Ashera - but rather the ashera is chopped down ahead of war," he says.

"It may be a tree but it was not an independent being."
Regarding the varying names of Jehovah, Ahituv says these are different manifestations of the same god, "its like there are different manifestations of the Holy Mary in different places and everyone knows it's the same Mary."

Meshel does not agree:
"If you read the phrase as is, clearly the meaning is that she is his partner."

"The Bible reads: Ashera pesel (Ashera statue) - the statue had to represent someone. We can't just say it was a log," Ben Nun bolsters the point. Some also believe the early Jews worshipped trees (https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-did-ancient-jews-worship-trees-1.5301590).
This argument is bound to continue even though access to the actual findings is impossible. As part of the deal with Egypt, all archaeological findings were returned to Cairo in 1993. They have not been shown to the public since then. Meshel fears Kuntillet Ajrud will be forgotten again.



Related:
Senior Israeli archaeologist casts doubt on Jewish heritage of Jerusalem (https://www.sott.net/article/233230-Senior-Israeli-archaeologist-casts-doubt-on-Jewish-heritage-of-Jerusalem)

Judaism and Christianity - Two Thousand Years of Lies - 60 Years of State Terrorism (https://www.sott.net/article/156452-Judaism-and-Christianity-Two-Thousand-Years-of-Lies-60-Years-of-State-Terrorism#)

Israel's rebel caves lead down to ancient wonders (https://www.sott.net/article/234265-Israels-rebel-caves-lead-down-to-ancient-wonders)

Research Reveals Ancient Struggle over Holy Land Supremacy (https://www.sott.net/article/244124-Research-Reveals-Ancient-Struggle-over-Holy-Land-Supremacy)

Rare Noah's Ark mosaic uncovered in ancient synagogue in Israel (https://www.sott.net/article/321786-Rare-Noahs-Ark-mosaic-uncovered-in-ancient-synagogue-in-Israel)

[gord]

So, I finally got around to listening several times to the Russell Gmirkin interview linked to in post #13 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106), and I guess I would just say it seems that Plato devised a self-replicating frankenstein monster of a mind virus that's been highly successful and toxic to everyone in a variety of forms for about 2300 years now. Yeesh.

[Praxis]

The book that turned America's Evangelicals Zionist: The Scofield Bible (https://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/the-scofield-bible-the-book-that-made-zionists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html)

Maidhc Ó Cathail Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (https://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/the-scofield-bible-the-book-that-made-zionists-of-americas-evangelical-christians.html)
Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:51 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s22/443640/medium/bb23_ScoClassicMASTERXL_4.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s22/443640/full/bb23_ScoClassicMASTERXL_4.jpg)


"For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
-The New Scofield Study Bible
Since it was first published in 1909, the Scofield Reference Bible has made uncompromising Zionists out of tens of millions of Americans. When John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), said that "50 million evangelical bible-believing Christians unite with five million American Jews standing together on behalf of Israel," it was the Scofield Bible that he was talking about.

Although the Scofield Reference Bible contains the text of the King James Authorized Version, it is not the traditional Protestant bible but Cyrus I. Scofield's annotated commentary that is problematic. More than any other factor, it is Scofield's notes that have induced generations of American evangelicals to believe that God demands their uncritical support for the modern State of Israel.

Blessing Israel, Cursing Its Critics
Central to Christian Zionist belief is Scofield's commentary (italicized below) on Genesis 12:3:
"'I will bless them that bless thee.' In fulfillment closely related to the next clause, 'And curse him that curseth thee.' Wonderfully fulfilled in the history of the dispersion. It has invariably fared ill with the people who have persecuted the Jew - well with those who have protected him. The future will still more remarkably prove this principle."
Drawing on Scofield's rather tendentious interpretation, Hagee claims, "The man or nation that lifts a voice or hand against Israel invites the wrath of God."

But as Stephen Sizer points out in his definitive critique, Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon? (available from AET's Middle East Books and More (https://www.middleeastbooks.com/products/christian-zionism-road-map-to-armageddon-by-stephen-sizer)):
"The promise, when referring to Abraham's descendants, speaks of God blessing them, not of entire nations 'blessing' the Hebrew nation, still less the contemporary and secular State of Israel."
Notwithstanding this more orthodox reading, The New Scofield Study Bible, published by Oxford University Press in 1984, intensified Scofield's interpretation by adding,
"For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgement."
"Sustained by a dubious exegesis of selective biblical texts," Sizer concludes,
"Christian Zionism's particular reading of history and contemporary events...sets Israel and the Jewish people apart from other peoples in the Middle East...it justifies the endemic racism intrinsic to Zionism, exacerbates tensions between Jews and Palestinians and undermines attempts to find a peaceful resolution of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, all because 'the Bible tells them so.'"
The Incredible Scofield
In his 2008 book, The Rise of Israel: A History of a Revolutionary State, Jonathan R. Adelman describes the crucial support Israel receives from Christian fundamentalists as "totally fortuitous." That assertion is belied, however, by the incredible career of the man who wrote "the Bible of Fundamentalism."

Two years after Scofield's reported conversion to Christianity in 1879, the Atchison Patriot was less than impressed. Describing the former Atchison resident as the "late lawyer, politician and shyster generally," the article went on to recount a few of Scofield's "many malicious acts." These included a series of forgeries in St. Louis, for which he was sentenced to six months in jail.

Being a "born again" preacher did not preclude Scofield from becoming a member of an exclusive New York men's club in 1901, either. In his devastating biography, The Incredible Scofield and His Book, Joseph M. Canfield suggests,
"The admission of Scofield to the Lotus Club, which could not have been sought by Scofield, strengthens the suspicion that has cropped up before, that someone was directing the career of C.I. Scofield."
That someone, Canfield suspects, was associated with one of the club's committee members, the Wall Street lawyer Samuel Untermeyer. As Canfield intimates, Scofield's theology was "most helpful in getting Fundamentalist Christians to back the international interest in one of Untermeyer's pet projects - the Zionist Movement."

Others have been even more explicit about the nature of Scofield's service to the Zionist agenda. In "Unjust War Theory: Christian Zionism and the Road to Jerusalem," Prof. David W. Lutz writes, "Untermeyer used Scofield, a Kansas City lawyer with no formal training in theology, to inject Zionist ideas into American Protestantism. Untermeyer and other wealthy and influential Zionists whom he introduced to Scofield promoted and funded the latter's career, including travel in Europe."

On one of these European trips, Oxford University Press publisher Henry Frowde "expressed immediate interest" in Scofield's project. According to a biography of Frowde, although the OUP publisher was "[n]ot demonstrative in his religious views, all his Christian life he was associated with brethren known as 'Exclusive.'" The "Exclusive Brethren" refers to the group of Christian evangelicals that, in an 1848 split in the Plymouth Brethren, followed John Nelson Darby, the Anglo-Irish missionary generally considered to have been the most influential figure in the development of Christian Zionism, and a major influence on Scofield.

Scofield's Legacy
Had the Scofield Bible never been published, American presidents influenced by Christian Zionism such as Truman, Johnson, Reagan and George W. Bush might have been less sympathetic to Israeli demands, and consequently more attentive to U.S. interests. Moreover, the American people could have been spared the pseudo-Christian rants of John Hagee, Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell, not to mention the lucrative End Times Rapture "prophecy" peddled by Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye.

But it is the people of the Middle East who have been most affected by an expansionist Israel emboldened by the unswerving allegiance of Christian Zionists led to believe that Scofield's words are God's will. Not least among the many victims of the Scofield Bible are 5 million Palestinian refugees whose right to return is fervently opposed by America's Zionized Christians. Thanks to their indoctrination by Scofield's unholy book, they believe that Palestine belongs not to the Palestinians - many of whom are fellow Christians - but exclusively to "God's chosen people."

======================================

Adding insults to Plato's injuries (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232)... it seems that Balfour was already in the works and Tavistock (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101058-The-Father-of-Psy-Ops-Sigmund-Fraud) well on its way.

OMFG.

I just realized this.


Do you have any idea who this was?

I actually worked with Maidhc when I was living in Japan.

He ran an excellent Blog called the Passionate Attachment.

He was a friend. But he lost his battle with depression last year(omg it might be two years now.)

EDIT, This has hit me like a ton of bricks for some reason.

Cherish the people you have in your life and help when you can. I knew Maidhc was in a rough place,but not as rough as I thought, and I didnt do enough for him when I could.

I also thought him going back to Ireland would have helped. Reach out to people and make sure they are ok

[Hervé]

More recent instances of the application of Plato's "Laws" (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232) template to a population: The Khazarian invaders from Asia and the christianization of Russia:

In the 1st century B.C. the Khazars had invaded eastern Europe from their homeland in Asia. The Khazars invaded eastern Europe via the land route between the north end of the Caspian Sea and the south end of the Ural Mountains.

[...]

The Khazars were not "Semites". They were an Asiatic Mongoloid nation. They are classified by modern anthropologists as Turco-Finns racially. From time immemorial the homeland of the Khazars was in the heart of Asia. They were a very warlike nation. The Khazars were driven out of Asia finally by the nations in Asia with whom they were continually at war. The Khazars invaded eastern Europe to escape further defeats in Asia.

The very warlike Khazars did not find it difficult to subdue and conquer the 25 peaceful agricultural nations occupying approximately 1,000,000 square miles in eastern Europe. In a comparatively short period the Khazars established the largest and most powerful kingdom in Europe, and probably the wealthiest also.

The Khazars were a pagan nation when they invaded eastern Europe. Their religious worship was a mixture of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship practiced in Asia by pagan nations This form of worship continued until the 7th century. The vile forms of sexual excess indulged in by the Khazars as their form of religious worship produced a degree of moral degeneracy the Khazar's king could not endure. In the 7th century, King Bulan, ruler at that time of the Khazar Kingdom, decided to abolish the practice of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship and make one of the three monotheistic religions, about which he knew very little, the new state religion. After a historic session with representatives of the three monotheistic religions King Bulan decided against Christian and Islam and selected as the future state religion as the religious worship then known as "Talmudism", and now known and practiced as "Judaism". This even is well documented in history.

King Bulan and his 4000 feudal nobles were promptly converted by rabbis imported from Babylonia for that event. Phallic worship and other forms of idolatry were thereafter forbidden. The Khazar kings invited large numbers of rabbis to come and open synagogues and schools to instruct the population in the new form of religious worship. It was now the state religion. The converted Khazars were the first population of so-called or self-styled "Jews' in eastern Europe. So-called or self-styled "Jews" in eastern Europe after the conversion of the Khazars the descendants of the Khazars converted to "Talmudism", or as it is now know "Judaism", by the 7th century mass conversion of the Khazar population.

After the conversion of King Bulan none but a so-called or self-styled "Jew" could occupy the Khazar throne. The Khazar Kingdom became a virtual theocracy. The religious leaders were the civil administrators also. The religious leaders imposed the teachings of the Talmud upon the population as their guide to living. The ideologies of the Talmud became the axis of political, cultural, economic and social attitudes and activities throughout the Khazar kingdom. The Talmud provided civil and religious law.

[...]

The so-called or self-styled "Jews" throughout the world today of eastern European origin make up at least 90% of the world's total present population of so-called or self-styled "Jews". The conversion of King Bulan and the Khazar nation in the 7th century accomplished for "Talmudism", or for "Judaism" as "Talmudism" is called today, what the conversion of Constantine and the western European nations accomplished for Christianity. Christianity was a small comparatively unimportant religious belief practiced principally in the eastern Mediterranean area until the conversion to the Christian faith of the large populations of the western European pagan nations after the conversion of Constantine. "Talmudism", or "Judaism" as "Talmudism" is known today, was given its greatest stimulus in all its history with the conversion of the large pagan Khazar population in the 7th century. Without the conversion of the Khazar population it is doubtful if "Talmudism", or "Judaism" as "Talmudism" is known today, could have survived. "Talmudism", the civil and religious code of the Pharisees, most likely would have passed out of existence like the many other creeds and cults practiced by the peoples in that area before, during and after "Pharisaism" assumed its prominent position among these creeds and cults in the time of Jesus. "Talmudism", as "Pharisaism" was called later, would have disappeared with all its contemporary creeds and cults but for the conversion of the Khazars to "Talmudism" in the 7th century. At that time "Talmudism" was well on its way towards complete oblivion.

In the year 986 A. D. the ruler of Russia, Vladimir III, became a convert to the Christian faith in order to marry a Catholic Slavonic princess of a neighboring sovereign state. The marriage was otherwise impossible. Vladimir III thereupon also made his newly-acquired Christian faith the state religion of Russia replacing the pagan worship formerly practiced in Russia since it was founded in 820 A.D. Vladimir III and his successors as the rulers of Russia attempted in vain to convert his so-called or self-styled "Jews", now Russian subjects, to Russia's Christian state religion and to adopt the customs and culture of the numerically predominant Russian Christian population. The so-called or self- styled "Jews" in Russia refused and resisted this plan vigorously. They refused to adopt the Russian alphabet in place of the Hebrew characters used in writing their "Yiddish" language. They resisted the substitution of the Russian language for "Yiddish" as their mother-tongue. They opposed every attempt to bring about the complete assimilation of the former sovereign Khazar nation into the Russian nation. They resisted with every means at their disposal. The many forms of tension which resulted produced situations described by history as "massacres", "pogroms", "persecution", discrimination, etc.

[...]

By Benjamin H. Freedman, ca. 1954, THE TRUTH ABOUT KHAZARS published as "Facts are Facts (http://antimatrix.org/Convert/Books/Benjamin.H.Freedman/The.Truth.about.Khazars.htm)"

[Hervé]

...

... how human transcribed voices ended up impersonating some people's "God":

Gunnar Heinsohn: Exodus (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/gunnar-heinsohn-exodus/)

by malagabay (https://malagabay.wordpress.com/author/malagabay/) Posted on August 6, 2018
(https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/08/06/gunnar-heinsohn-exodus/)

https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/exodus.jpg?w=640&h=480 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/exodus.jpg)



https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/exodus-quote-one.gif?w=640&h=123 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/exodus-quote-one.gif)



https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/exodus-quote-two.gif?w=640&h=183 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/exodus-quote-two.gif)


David and Israel‘s “United Monarchy” provide the most popular targets for the erasure of time-honored personalities and entities from our history books.

Nevertheless, archaeological layers consistent with “Yishai“ and “David“ (alphabetical Hebrew) are present in Jerusalem’s period of the Mitanni when “Jishua“ and “Dadua“ (Amarna cuneiform) tried to take the city.

However, the David presence in these layers has so far remained unrecognized by academe, because both defenders and debunkers of David use Bible dates that place him in the 11th/10th century BCE, whereas the Mitanni are pseudo-astronomically dated to the 14th century (see in detail Heinsohn 2018).

Since both factions insist on their respective non-scientific dating methods, they exclude a third – stratigraphic — option and thus perpetuate the stalemate.

For the same reason, eliminating the Hebrew EXODUS from history books is almost as popular as obliterating David.

At Joshua’s Biblical date (1406 BCE), debunkers say, Jericho was a “small and poor, almost insignificant, and unfortified [and] [t]here was also no sign of a destruction“ (Finkelstein/Silberman 2002, 77 ff.).

However, no one doubts the destruction of a massively walled Jericho in the 16th century BCE.

Gnashing their teeth, the Bible faithful also believe in this pseudo-astronomical date, which comes way too early for them.

Therefore, the “tumbling down” of Jericho‘s walls in the 16th century BCE does not fit into the context of an EXODUS around 1400 BCE.

Scholarly deletion of personae and events from the Bible, thus, always follows the same pattern.

Non-Biblical dating for archaeological finds and strata –– such as pseudo-astronomic Sothic retro-calculation for the Amarna-period (Heinsohn 2005) –– is compared with Bible-based dating of Biblical stories.

If the non-Biblical dating of the archaeological stratum –– e.g., 1550/1500 BCE for the smashing of Jericho’s “massive stone revetment“ (Kenyon 1957, 213 ff.) –– does not match the Bible date of Joshua’s wall-story (1406 BCE) because it suffers from an “absence of archaeological data“ (Jacobs 2000, 691), the Biblical story is denounced as a mere phantasy.

This is logical because the findings of archaeology are hard evidence, while the Biblical books are only texts whose composition cannot be reliably reconstructed.

Nevertheless, both dates –– 1550 and 1406 BCE –– are declared sacrosanct and written in all innocence one after the other in the chronologies.

The deletion procedure has bizarre features, because both the “scientific” and the Biblical dating can be wrong.

The date chosen as true, therefore, results from a decision-making process that cannot help but settle for an erroneous view.

Notwithstanding this unscientific approach, the deleted Biblical stories contain information whose selection and composition require explanation.

Why are the eliminated personalities, examples given, named Yishai and David, but not Simon and Nathan?

Why do they fight for a supposedly non-existent Jerusalem instead of a Damascus or Ugarit?

These questions are answered only partially, or not at all (but see Winzeler 2017).

No attempts are made to match the strata found in the ground and the names found therein (on clay tablets, seals, vessels, etc.) with Biblical stories.

In this stratigraphic method, the Biblical dating is left aside for the time being.

Instead, the question is asked whether Biblical stories can produce a meaningful narrative by comparing them to differently, i.e., non-Biblically dated strata.

Bible fundamentalists must reject such an approach because they are convinced their dates are God-given.

They hinder research just as much as archaeologists, who derive their truth from a preference for one of two or, as we will see, even more errors.

The search for strata that fit the Biblical stories inevitably leads to a re-dating of the Bible stories and mostly also of the archaeological layers.

But we will see (in continuation of Heinsohn 2018) that meaningful narratives arise as long as only fictitious time is deleted, while the substance of the historical traditions is preserved.

Most of all, the EXODUS-researchers are confused that the Jebusites must be fought for over 400 Biblical years until they are defeated by David (somewhere between 1005 and 999 BCE) after the first attacks by Joshua around 1406 BCE.

The possibility that the Joshua stories and the David stories are different reports about the same events is considered absurd, because 400 Biblical years lie between the two heroes.

The view that the reports of the Egyptian rule and expulsion of the Old-Akkadians in the 22nd century BCE and then again of the Hyksos in the 16th century BCE are Exodus-reports, too, is considered even more bizarre, because they are dated up to 1200 years before David’s conquest of Jebus/Jerusalem.

The Old-Akkadians, the most powerful empire of their time, left no traces in Magan (=Egypt), though Naram Sin boasted about his victory and even named the powerful enemy: “Magan he smote and Mani [Menes], Lord of Magan“ (Albright 1920, 89).

The baffled researchers, therefore, believe that the term Magan is always to be translated as Egypt, but in the 23rd/22nd century BCE must have meant something else.

Oman with no such important ruler is one candidate.

Equally baffling is the fact that the Hyksos, whose rule over Egypt is not in doubt, employed, in the 17th/16th century (Heinsohn 1991), the 23rd/22nd century cuneiform alphabet as well the very characteristic weapons (e.g., scimitars) of the old Akkadians.

Nobody understands why the Hyksos were using weapons that had been obsolete for 600 years.

Scholars have no idea that they are dealing with one and the same world power: i.e. Old-Akkadians = Hyksos.

That power is dated once by Bible fundamentalism (via Abraham and Nimrod) and once by pseudo-astronomical retro-calculations.

Researchers can only find traces of one of the “two” empires because in reality the two empires are one and the same.


https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-1.gif?w=640&h=178 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-1.gif)


[Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

The first world empire from the historiography of the ancient Greeks is mysteriously without physical traces, too.

It is the realm of the pre-Medish Assyrians with Ninos –– matching Old-Akkadians and Hyksos with his conquest of Egypt –– as “the first with outstanding deeds“ (Ctesias as preserved in Diodorus Siculus 2, 1: 4).

In reality, the remains of the Old-Akkadians and/or the pre-Mitanni Hyksos provide the hard evidence of this very empire.

Since the Old-Akkadians are dated via Abraham, but the Mitanni are dated pseudo-astronomically, they do not seem to follow each other directly –– like Hyksos and Mitanni.

Stratigraphically, however, in Mesopotamia the finds of the Mitanni (from c. 1500 BCE) lie directly on the finds of the Old-Akkadians (up to c. 2200 BCE; see in detail Heinsohn/Illig 1997, 362 ff).


https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-2.gif?w=640&h=248 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-2.gif)


[Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

Stunned by this immediate Old-Akkadian>Mitanni sequence, the excavators were forced to push between their strata an archaeological blank of some 700 years, although the necessary physical evidence (drifts, forests, snail shells etc.) were not found anywhere.

So the Old-Akkadians are just as immediately pre-Mitannias the Hyksos.

The shattering of Jericho’s “massive stone revetment“ at the end of the Hyksos period (c. “1550“ BCE pseudo-astronomically) is thus parallel to the catastrophic end of the Old-Akkadians (c. “2150“ BCE Bible fundamentalist date).

The dates of the two catastrophes, of course, do not correspond to the biblical date of the Exodus (around 1400 BCE).

That is why they are being ignored for its explanation.

Stratigraphically, however, they are among the most striking events to which the contents –– like “thunderstorms of hail and fire“ or the “darkness for three days“ (Exodus 9: 13-35; 10: 21-29) –– of the EXODUS narratives fit.

The following stratigraphic overview, therefore, has to present them side by side.


https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-3.gif?w=640&h=608 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-3.gif)


[Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

The EXODUS is therefore a consequence of the catastrophically weakened and then militarily defeated empire of the Old-Akkadians == pre-Mitanni Hyksos == pre-Medish Assyrians.

This mighty empire also lost its power over Egypt (Magan).

Old-Akkadian warriors (recruited in the empire’s realms in the Levant, Mesopotamia and Anatolia etc.) who were not killed by the Egyptians had no choice but to flee to Israel.

Only the most skillful and physically fit were able to escape.

They were still strong militarily and were desperately and violently looking for new homes.

Therefore they were described, in the letters to the post-Hyksos court in Amarna (in the time of the Mitanni=Medes), as “migrants“, “rebels“, “raiders“ or “outlaws“, i.e. as “Habiru“.

The Akkadian/Hyksos conquest of Egypt had to come from Israel for geographical reasons.

Therefore, native people from Israel will have been among the invaders.

In this respect, the expulsion from Egypt is also a return to the land of ancestors of the conquerors.

Can we now say that the EXODUS took place around the 620s BCE, when Cyaxares of Ecbatana (in Greek), Great King of the Medes (identical with Shaushatra of Washukanni [in cuneiform], Great King of the Mitanni {Heinsohn 2006}), began his government?

Nearly, but not exactly!

Also in the period of 600 to 1 BCE there is fictitious time (cf. Heinsohn 2018).

It remains true, however, that the EXODUS is one of the real events during the time when the Medes took power in the Ancient Near East.

Jericho’s crumbling walls at the end of the Hyksos are Joshua’s tumbling walls of the EXODUS in the time of Jerusalem’s destruction by the Lord’s Angel, when both heroes had to fight against the Jebusites.

[ For a more precise Exodus date before present, the fictitious seven centuries from the 1st millennium CE must also be subtracted ( see http://www.q-mag.org/the-1st-millennium-a-d-chronology-controversy.html )]

Wondrously round numbers for the sojourn in Egypt, such as 400 years (Genesis 15:13) or 430 years (Exodus 12:40, 41), belong to the realm of magic and/or were intended to postulate a historical headstart at a time when this could not yet be checked archaeologically.

This may belong to the time of the Greek version of the Torah (Septuagint; 2nd c. BCE) when, in Egyptian Alexandria, powerful Greeks argued with intimidated Jews about whether Moses came before Homer or vice versa.

Most of the dating of the Bible before Hellenism is untenable.

But this pious numerology must not result in the substance of the incorrectly-dated stories also being thrown away.

Many Biblical stories about politics and disasters allow a more precise reconstruction of the past.

We need them urgently, as much for a reliable historiography of Israel as for a correct understanding of the history of the rest of the world.

A rough overview of the near and far neighbours of the EXODUS events shall conclude this text.


https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-4.gif?w=640&h=830 (https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/table-4.gif)


[Click on the image to view to at a larger scale]

Bibliography
-Albright, W. F. (1920), “Menes and Naram-Sin“, The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 6, no. 2, 89-98

-Assmann, J. (2014), From Akhenaten to Moses: Ancient Egypt and Religious Change, Oxford: Oxford University Press; View in Google Books
(https://books.google.pl/books?id=3ejfBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT27&lpg=PT27&dq=%22fictional+as+to+its+composition+but+historical%22&source=bl&ots=O4QyO7uhBG&sig=R-tvrFoBNi33rRKxongFp9T8Jto&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizzurbz8vcAhVJPFAKHR0OBtcQ6AEwAXoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22fictional%20as%20to%20its%20composition%20but%20historical%22&f=false)
-Dever, (2001), What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Aracheology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel, Grand Rapids/Michigan & Cambridge/UK: William B. Eerdmans

-Finkelstein, I., Silberman, N. A. (2002), The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, New York: Touchstone

-Heinsohn, G. (1991), “Who were the Hyksos?”, in Organizing Committee/ S. Curto et al., ed., Sesto Congresso Internazionale di Egittologia etc. Abstracts of Papers, Turin: Organizing Secretariat, 208-209

-Heinsohn, G. (1996), Assyrerkönige gleich Perserherrscher: Die Assyrienfunde bestätigen das Achämenidenreich [Assyrian Great kings as alter egos of Persian Great Kings. The Assyrian finds confirm the imperial dimensions of the Akhaemenids], München-Gräfelfing: Mantis

-Heinsohn, G. (2005), “Phantom Periods and Astronomical Retro-calculation”, lecture at the Toronto-Meeting, June 20-30, Toronto/Ontario, ms.

-Heinsohn, G. (2006), “Cyaxares: Media’s Great King in Egypt, Assyria & Iran“; http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/History/madha/cyaxares_Egypt_assyria.htm
(http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/History/madha/cyaxares_Egypt_assyria.htm)
-Heinsohn, G. (2007), Die Sumerer gab es nicht: Von den Phantom-Imperien der Lehrbücher zur wirklichen Epochenabfolge in der “Zivilisationswiege” Südmesopotamien, 2nd ed. (19881), Gräfelfing: Mantis

-Heinsohn, G. (2018), “Enigmas of 3000 to 300 BC“, https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/
(https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/gunnar-heinsohn-enigmas-of-3000-to-300-bc/)
-Heinsohn, G., Illig, H. (1997), Wann lebten die Pharaonen?, 2nd edition, Gräfelfing: Mantis

-Jacobs, P.F. (2000), “Jericho“, in D.N. Freedman, A.C. Myers, eds., Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible, Amsterdam: AUP, 689-691

-Kenyon, K. (1957), Digging up Jericho, New York: Praeger

-Schaeffer, C.F. (1948), Stratigraphie comparée et chronologie de L‘ Asie occidentale, Oxford: Oxforf University Press

-Landström, B. (1970), Die Schiffe der Pharaonen: Altägyptische Schiffsbaukunft von 4000 bis 600 v. Chr., München: Bertelsmann

-Weiss, H. et al. (1993), “The Genesis and Collapse of Third Millennium North Mesopotamian Civilization”, Science, vol. 261 (5124), 995–1004

-Winzeler, P. (2017), Der „Mescha-Stein“: Die unerkannte hebräische Inschrift Davids? [20091], http://www.systematischetheologie.unibe.ch/unibe/portal/fak_theologie/dep_evth/ist/content/e40289/e40309/e153867/e154075/files526231/david_und_mescha_stele_ger.pdf
Editorial Assistance
Thanks go to Clark Whelton (New York/NY) and Tim Cullen (Malaga/Spain).

[Hervé]

Where it - apparently - all started: the so-called "garden" of Eden:


sz1Z_Y4mlDk

Borrowed from here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104685-BOW-to-your-real-GODS-.&p=1254582&viewfull=1#post1254582) (<---)

[Hervé]

I would recommend this research essay to get an idea of how celestial phenomena got twisted and mythologized from broken up comets and resulting rains of meteorites into winged serpents and dragons spitting deadly rockets and bombing earth's inhabitants:


Witches, Comets and Planetary Cataclysms (https://www.sott.net/article/217194-Witches-Comets-and-Planetary-Cataclysms#)

Laura Knight-Jadczyk Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/217194-Witches-Comets-and-Planetary-Cataclysms#)
Sat, 30 Oct 2010 16:59 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s2/45589/medium/witches_ouv.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s2/45589/full/witches_ouv.jpg)
© Dot Connector Magazine


When you think of Halloween, what is the first image that comes to mind? I took a little informal poll among my friends, family and associates. Guess what image came in first? Jack-o-lanterns! Bet you thought I was going to say "witches". Well, I sure thought it would be witches, but they only came in a close second!..

When I think of Halloween, I think of grade-school art projects where we cut out silhouettes of witches to paste onto large yellow moons made of construction paper. The witch was always on a broom with her black dress flying in the wind, accompanied by a black cat sitting on the back of the broom. I wondered even then how the cat managed to stay on and why anybody would think that straddling a broomstick as a seat would be even remotely comfortable.

But, there you have it: in a significant way, Halloween is associated with witches, evil women who consort with the devil and do evil things like caging lost children to fatten them up and eat them, giving poisoned apples and setting up spinning wheels to poison abandoned or hapless princesses who are only looking for true love.

The word 'witch' comes to us from the Old English wicca, which was a masculine word meaning 'wizard'. The feminine version was wicce, pronounced 'witch'. This came from Middle High German wicken , which meant to 'bewitch', and even older, from Old High German wīh which meant 'holy'. The dictionary tells us that a witch is someone who has malignant supernatural powers and practices spell casting with the aid of a devil or familiar. It also refers to an ugly old woman, or a beautiful young woman. The word 'witch' is an epithet for any woman who isn't inclined to be a doormat, flung to the floor by any individual who wants her to be subject to his or her will. Last of all, a witch is a practitioner of Wicca.


https://www.sott.net/image/s2/45567/medium/witches1.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s2/45567/full/witches1.jpg)
Gerald Gardner.


Wicca is a British construct created by an amateur anthropologist named Gerald Gardner who claimed to have had many interesting encounters and experiences with the occult and paranormal throughout his life. At one point, he claimed to have doctoral degrees from the Universities of Singapore and Toulouse, which was a lie. He claimed that he was initiated into a New Forest coven of witches which was the survival of a pre-Christian pagan witch cult. This alleged ancient coven has been shown by subsequent research to have been formed in the early 20th century and its ideas were based mainly on folk magic and the theories of Margaret Murray, so again, his honesty is rather suspect.

Gardner incorporated elements from Freemasonry, ceremonial magic, and the imaginings of Aleister Crowley and others. Most of what one sees when carefully examining these elements that combined to form modern Wicca bears no relationship whatsoever to the ancient religions as they can be discerned by deep study. Rather, these elements are likely more influenced by taking the descriptions of the persecutors of witches during the Inquisition as a guideline, instead of realizing that they were the defamatory falsifications of psychopaths. It is more likely that those accused of witchcraft during the witch persecutions were following beliefs akin to those of the Cathars - dualism - or even more ancient dualistic concepts. They also likely employed ancient knowledge handed down from Paleolithic shamanic systems which had little to nothing to do with 'ceremonial magic', spells or a 'liberal code of morality'. Unfortunately, neither Gardner nor Crowley had access to modern scientific archaeological studies from which one can actually infer something about the abilities, beliefs and practices of our truly remarkable ancestors.

My work is all about following the lines of Pagan/shamanistic ideas and teachings back to the Ice Ages - the cave painters, the Northern European origins - to find the most original, fundamental, common foundation of all of them. The idea that there was a time when man was directly in contact with the Ce­lestial Beings is at the root of many of the myths of the Golden Age. Myths tell us of a time when the 'gods withdrew' from man­kind. As a result of some 'happening', i.e., 'The Fall', when the communications were broken off and the Celestial Beings withdrew to the highest heavens.

But the myths also tell us that there were still certain people who were able to 'ascend' and commune with the gods on behalf of their tribe or family. Through them, contact was maintained with the 'guiding spirits' of the group. The beliefs and practices of present day shamans are a survival of a profoundly modified and even corrupted and degenerated remnant of this archaic technology of concrete communications between heaven and earth. This shamanism seems to have been born in Western Europe with the arrival of Cro-Magnon man and the myths seem to have been redacted repeatedly until we have numerous claims of occult secrets of various sorts revived by this or that person, including Wicca. If that is the case, then true 'witchcraft' is really shamanism, aka Druidism, and even more, as we shall see.

Mircea Eliade writes:

[...]

...continue here (https://www.sott.net/article/217194-Witches-Comets-and-Planetary-Cataclysms) (<---)


Full article: https://www.sott.net/article/217194-Witches-Comets-and-Planetary-Cataclysms


PS: Check this post for the main celestial event: Re: Bolides, Comets, Asteroids, Meteors And Falling Skies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88088-Bolides-Comets-Asteroids-Meteors-And-Falling-Skies&p=1257977&viewfull=1#post1257977)

[gord]

A new Russell Gmirkin interview popped up Nov 16:


RUSSELL GMIRKIN LIVE: GREEK INFLUENCE ON THE HEBREW BIBLE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxEiZOU1r3U

[Hervé]

New study calls into question the history of Israel (https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/05/new-study-calls-into-question-the-history-of-israel/)

By Paul Antonopoulos (https://www.fort-russ.com/author/p-ant/) On May 5, 2019


https://www.fort-russ.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1-9-750x430.jpg

TEL AVIV – A new investigation into the wake of Mesha suggests that King Balak, the Moabite leader who according to the Bible tried to curse the Israelites, may have been a historical figure. This has implications in the chronology of the history of ancient Israel.

The study published in the Journal of the Institute of Archeology of the University of Tel Aviv and conducted by the archaeologist Israel Finkelstein and the historian Nadav Naaman, both from the University of Tel Aviv, together with the expert in the Bible, Thomas Romer from the University of Lausanne in France, proposes a new reading of one of the darkest sections of the Mesha Stele.

The research is based on new high-resolution images of a photograph of the Stela, taken shortly after its discovery and which, in some cases, has preserved the old letters better than the original inscription.

This is because local residents broke the stone shortly after it was found and, although most of it was assembled again, some parts are still missing. Currently, the stone is in the Louvre Museum, France.

According to previous studies, one of the names engraved on the stone was that of the House of David, royal dynasty that ruled over the Kingdom of Israel.

However, the new analysis refutes this interpretation and proposes that the name located in an unreadable fragment on line 31, is that of King Balak, rival of Mesha (who named the Stele) for the supremacy of Moab. The Moabites were a Semitic people who lived east of the Dead Sea, in present-day Jordan and who clashed several times with the people of Israel.

This study is important because it allows us to understand the territory of Judah and Moab and their expansion processes, added to the history of Jerusalem in the 9th century BC, Finkelstein explained.

In the Bible, Balak appears much earlier in the history of the Hebrews, apparently centuries before the time of Mesha.

According to the sacred scriptures, forty years after the Exodus, when the Israelites, still led by Moses, emerge from the desert on their way to the Promised Land, they pass through Moab. Scared by the great multitude, King Balak hires a prophet and seer named Balaam to curse the Hebrews.

If the new interpretation of the Mesha Stele is correct, this would mean that Balak really existed. However, it would also show that the biblical episode in which it appears is anachronistic and mythological in nature.

It would be another confirmation that the sacred text was written centuries after the alleged events it narrates and that its authors have a penchant for taking known historical figures and then projecting them at a different time and turning them into stories and parables for their own theory.

According to the researchers, by leaving aside the reading of the House of David, we discard the fact that the kingdom of Judah has conquered that of Moab, which may be significant for the ancient history of Israel.

The black basalt stone known as the wake of Mesha is a monument that was discovered 150 years ago in the desert of Transjordan. It has been an important source of information about the history of ancient Israel and has served to debate the accuracy of the Bible.

In the text, dating from the second half of the ninth century BC. C., the Moabite king Mesha boasts of defeating the Northern Kingdom of Israel and its deity, YHWH. This is the first extra biblical reference to the tetragrammaton, or YHWH, the name with which Yahweh appears in the Old Testament.

The inscription also attests to the historicity of several biblical figures, including Mesha himself (listed in 2 Kings 3: 4), as well as the Israeli king Omri and his son Ahab.

[Hervé]

New reading of Mesha Stele could have far-reaching consequences for biblical history (https://phys.org/news/2019-05-mesha-stele-far-reaching-consequences-biblical.html)

Taylor & Francis Phys.org (https://phys.org/news/2019-05-mesha-stele-far-reaching-consequences-biblical.html)
Sun, 05 May 2019 21:39 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s26/520908/full/800px_P1120870_Louvre_st%C3%A8le_de.jpg
Mesha Stele. © Wikimedia Commons


The biblical King Balak may have been a historical figure, according to a new reading of the Mesha Stele, an inscribed stone dating from the second half of the 9th century BCE.

A name in Line 31 of the stele, previously thought to read 'House of David', could instead read 'Balak', a king of Moab mentioned in the biblical story (https://phys.org/tags/story/) of Balaam (Numbers 22-24), say archaeologist Prof. Israel Finkelstein and historians and biblical scholars Prof. Nadav Na'aman and Prof. Thomas Römer, in an article published in Tel Aviv: The Journal of the Institute of Archaeology of Tel Aviv University.

The Mesha Stele was found in the 19th century in the ruins of the biblical town of Dibon in Moab (present day Jordan), and is now in the Louvre. The stone's inscription tells the story of the territorial expansion and construction endeavours of King Mesha of Moab, who is mentioned in the Bible. The stele was cracked in the 19th century and parts of it are missing, but portions of the missing parts are preserved in a reverse copy of the inscription, known as a 'squeeze', made before the stele cracked.

The authors studied new high-resolution photographs of the squeeze, and of the stele itself. These new images made it clear that there are three consonants in the name of the monarch mentioned in Line 31, and that the first is the Hebrew letter beth (a 'b' sound).

While the other letters are eroded, the most likely candidate for the monarch's name is 'Balak', the authors say. The seat of the king referred to in Line 31 was at Horonaim, a place mentioned four times in the Bible in relation to the Moabite territory south of the Arnon River.
"Thus, Balak may be a historical personality like Balaam, who, before the discovery of the Deir Alla inscription, was considered to be an 'invented' figure," they suggest.

"The new photographs of the Mesha Stele and the squeeze indicate that the reading, 'House of David' - accepted by many scholars for more than two decades - is no longer an option," the authors conclude.

"With due caution we suggest the name of the Moabite king Balak, who, according to the Balaam story of Numbers 22-24, sought to bring a divine curse on the people of Israel.

"This story was written down later than the time of the Moabite king (https://phys.org/tags/king/) referred to in the Mesha Stele. Yet, to give a sense of authenticity to his story, its author must have integrated into the plot certain elements borrowed from the ancient reality, including two personal names: Balaam and Balak."

Related:


3,000 year old drawing of god found in Sinai could undermine our entire idea of Judaism (https://www.sott.net/article/382252-3000-year-old-drawing-of-god-found-in-Sinai-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-Judaism)



Book Review: The Invention of the Jewish People (https://www.sott.net/article/224322-Book-Review-The-Invention-of-the-Jewish-People)



The Saker interviews Michael A. Hoffman II (https://www.sott.net/article/388972-The-Saker-interviews-Michael-A-Hoffman-II)



Is there really such a thing as the "Judeo-Christian tradition"? (https://www.abc.net.au/religion/is-there-really-a-judeo-christian-tradition/10810554)



Judaism and Christianity - Two Thousand Years of Lies - 60 Years of State Terrorism (https://www.sott.net/article/382252-3000-year-old-drawing-of-god-found-in-Sinai-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-Judaism)



The Most Dangerous Cult in The World! (https://www.sott.net/article/236475-The-Most-Dangerous-Cult-in-The-World#)

[Didgevillage]

Plato and the Bible?
Sounds like a psy-op to me.

Plato's notion of Creator God vs Yahweh are diametrically opposed.
Mauro Biglino's description (of gods and angels) perfectly matches the latter types.

[Gwin Ru]

Occult Secrets of Judaism Revealed! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOyfxRy0ebE&feature=emb_logo) 1:41:43

Streamed live 11 hours ago

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Multistreaming with https://restream.io/?ref=kj7DN (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?v=tOyfxRy0ebE&event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbXZBbFlDR1VvcDA1RFlZa3BBV3RvSDZrb0stQXxBQ3Jtc0ttdk1ITzByV3MtREZSTnZJc0w0NnJGZEpG RXU1d05VUkJGTkZZaVdsdHVpU2pMR0UwVHVkMF9TQ0NvZVJtaEV1MDVwbUdsV3BOUmN1bkVIMW9ucnJRLUMwLW51OE5HV0FVdl9V Vm9jcjE3b08zdVJQSQ%3D%3D&q=https%3A%2F%2Frestream.io%2F%3Fref%3Dkj7DN)

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[Gwin Ru]

MindMatters: Plato All the Way Down: Solving Biblical Mysteries with Russell Gmirkin (https://www.sott.net/article/460056-MindMatters-Plato-All-the-Way-Down-Solving-Biblical-Mysteries-with-Russell-Gmirkin#) 1:34:25

Harrison Koehli and Adam Daniels
Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/460056-MindMatters-Plato-All-the-Way-Down-Solving-Biblical-Mysteries-with-Russell-Gmirkin#)
Fri, 29 Oct 2021 00:00 UTC

lsL7m6VSNTM

What happens when you combine the investigative mentation of Sherlock Holmes with the adventurous spirit Indiana Jones? Join MindMatters today as we find out! We are joined by solver of mysteries and detective of antiquities Russell Gmirkin, author of two groundbreaking books on the composition of the Old Testament, and another soon to be published. In his first book, Russell boldly argued that the Old Testament is a Hellenistic book, composed in the early third century BC. In his second, he showed the reliance of the biblical laws on Plato's. His next, titled Plato's Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts: Cosmic Monotheism and Terrestrial Polytheism in the Primordial History, will show the reliance of the Genesis creation accounts on Timaeus and Critias.

Join us as we talk about all these topics, plus forays into Russell's academic papers on the Dead Sea Scrolls, the historical basis for King Solomon, and the documentary hypothesis, as well as the roots of Western civilization and what it was like to be the son of the closest thing the CIA had to a James Bond. All this and more on this episode of MindMatters.

Russell's website (http://russellgmirkin.com/)
Russell's interview playlist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-VRwkQ2ZvZhrptmDX4Jvemi4X942f9WM)
MindMatters on odysee (https://odysee.com/@MindMatters:4)


Running Time: 01:34:25

Download: MP3 (https://media.sott.net/srn/20211029mnd-plato-all-the-way-down-solving-biblical-mysteries-with-russell-gmirkin.mp3) — 86.4 MB

[mozo33]

bible means collection of books, there being 66 of them written in a singular interwoven cohesive allegorical language which speaks to the process of our souls journey of a there and back ...

thing is none of it is of our own doing, and any thought contrary to this falls under religion regardless of how sincere in it one is ...

the process it speaks to is a process happening within us and the patterns pertaining to this process can be seen in everything ... even found in such things as quarks which experience the four fundamental interactions or forces, which in the scriptures are pictured as four rivers or four beasts or four voices or four gates to name but a few ...

to begin to see these patterns one must first put aside ones bias ( for or against ) regarding the current interpretations of the book, understanding that all the theologies and doctrines one hears about are mans perceptions of what they believe it speaks to, which i have found to be all of vanity ...

also of importance is the fact the original manuscripts where written in Hebrew and Greek and then translated into other languages by men who held to the doctrine of good versus evil and why all theology which has come out from this mindset is full of contradictions ...

as an example of this if one studies the original Greek manuscripts pertaining to the gramma used in context of what Jesus said whilst on the cross you will find he was speaking to both thieves when he said "Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." which flies in the face of every single christian theology concerning their so called salvation theories ...

anyway not to go off track as this thread has nothing to do with religion and its doctrines and theologies, but a collection of books we have yet to scrape the surface of what is found in them ...

i am happy to answer questions, albeit only the spirit of truth within you leads you into all truth and not another ...

[Journeyman]

bible means collection of books, there being 66 of them written in a singular interwoven cohesive allegorical language which speaks to the process of our souls journey of a there and back ...

thing is none of it is of our own doing, and any thought contrary to this falls under religion regardless of how sincere in it one is ...

the process it speaks to is a process happening within us and the patterns pertaining to this process can be seen in everything ... even found in such things as quarks which experience the four fundamental interactions or forces, which in the scriptures are pictured as four rivers or four beasts or four voices or four gates to name but a few ...

to begin to see these patterns one must first put aside ones bias ( for or against ) regarding the current interpretations of the book, understanding that all the theologies and doctrines one hears about are mans perceptions of what they believe it speaks to, which i have found to be all of vanity ...

also of importance is the fact the original manuscripts where written in Hebrew and Greek and then translated into other languages by men who held to the doctrine of good versus evil and why all theology which has come out from this mindset is full of contradictions ...

as an example of this if one studies the original Greek manuscripts pertaining to the gramma used in context of what Jesus said whilst on the cross you will find he was speaking to both thieves when he said "Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." which flies in the face of every single christian theology concerning their so called salvation theories ...

anyway not to go off track as this thread has nothing to do with religion and its doctrines and theologies, but a collection of books we have yet to scrape the surface of what is found in them ...

i am happy to answer questions, albeit only the spirit of truth within you leads you into all truth and not another ...

Mozo my views on the Bible have changed somewhat since I joined Avalon. Let me tell you where I'm at with this and maybe you can tell me what you think? I have come to believe the following about the Bible.

The texts were written to work on multiple levels. There is hidden info encoded within them. Biblical Prophecies are associated with events in heaven then on earth. So a lot in there depends on some knowledge of astrology. Thanks to Lavette (https://youtu.be/bbj_nmEHqLU) Hawkins, @Ian33 and @Lunesoleil for their help.

I don't buy biblical inerrancy. There is truth and deception mixed within it. @Pueblo introduced me to John Panella and I think there's a lot in his take on this (https://tribunilapulapu.freeforums.net/thread/22/book-forbidden-knowledge-children-harvest?page=1).

The Council of Nicea was compromised and so some important info was discarded. Enoch for instance. The texts from the Nag Hammadi find and other Gnostic texts suggest certain spiritual truths have been obscured and hidden. The Book of Revelation may have been added by other parties for their own ends. I am also unsure whether Paul should be removed completely or just viewed with some discernment.

The translation of the Bible as we now accept it has also at various times been compromised, KJV having some passages where the translation looks to have been done for ulterior motives, either to encode hidden information or to deliberately steer people the wrong way. Thanks to @Jim_Duyer for his scholarly and thoughtful contributions on this.

With all those provisos I still think there's much of value in there, inspiration in the story of Christ and his teachings, truths within the OT and the New which have been obscured. I just think anyone reading it has to be looking within at the same time and checking to see if what's being said is ringing true or not?

[mozo33]

bible means collection of books, there being 66 of them written in a singular interwoven cohesive allegorical language which speaks to the process of our souls journey of a there and back ...

thing is none of it is of our own doing, and any thought contrary to this falls under religion regardless of how sincere in it one is ...

the process it speaks to is a process happening within us and the patterns pertaining to this process can be seen in everything ... even found in such things as quarks which experience the four fundamental interactions or forces, which in the scriptures are pictured as four rivers or four beasts or four voices or four gates to name but a few ...

to begin to see these patterns one must first put aside ones bias ( for or against ) regarding the current interpretations of the book, understanding that all the theologies and doctrines one hears about are mans perceptions of what they believe it speaks to, which i have found to be all of vanity ...

also of importance is the fact the original manuscripts where written in Hebrew and Greek and then translated into other languages by men who held to the doctrine of good versus evil and why all theology which has come out from this mindset is full of contradictions ...

as an example of this if one studies the original Greek manuscripts pertaining to the gramma used in context of what Jesus said whilst on the cross you will find he was speaking to both thieves when he said "Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." which flies in the face of every single christian theology concerning their so called salvation theories ...

anyway not to go off track as this thread has nothing to do with religion and its doctrines and theologies, but a collection of books we have yet to scrape the surface of what is found in them ...

i am happy to answer questions, albeit only the spirit of truth within you leads you into all truth and not another ...

Mozo my views on the Bible have changed somewhat since I joined Avalon. Let me tell you where I'm at with this and maybe you can tell me what you think? I have come to believe the following about the Bible.

The texts were written to work on multiple levels. There is hidden info encoded within them. Biblical Prophecies are associated with events in heaven then on earth. So a lot in there depends on some knowledge of astrology. Thanks to Lavette (https://youtu.be/bbj_nmEHqLU) Hawkins, @Ian33 and @Lunesoleil for their help.

I don't buy biblical inerrancy. There is truth and deception mixed within it. @Pueblo introduced me to John Panella and I think there's a lot in his take on this (https://tribunilapulapu.freeforums.net/thread/22/book-forbidden-knowledge-children-harvest?page=1).

The Council of Nicea was compromised and so some important info was discarded. Enoch for instance. The texts from the Nag Hammadi find and other Gnostic texts suggest certain spiritual truths have been obscured and hidden. The Book of Revelation may have been added by other parties for their own ends. I am also unsure whether Paul should be removed completely or just viewed with some discernment.

The translation of the Bible as we now accept it has also at various times been compromised, KJV having some passages where the translation looks to have been done for ulterior motives, either to encode hidden information or to deliberately steer people the wrong way. Thanks to @Jim_Duyer for his scholarly and thoughtful contributions on this.

With all those provisos I still think there's much of value in there, inspiration in the story of Christ and his teachings, truths within the OT and the New which have been obscured. I just think anyone reading it has to be looking within at the same time and checking to see if what's being said is ringing true or not?

hi Journeyman

when i first got a bible i began to read it and got a finger thickness into it and realized i had no idea what i just read, and so i stopped reading it, and began to study it by word, as in i would take a word eg: "tree" and then study all the verses with the word tree in it by the verses either side of that verse to understand what the word tree meant and how and why the word was being used in the context ... i believe i must have gone through the book hundreds of times just studying words in it with the aid of dictionary's as i would study the Hebrew and Greek translations as well ...


thing is after all that i still had no idea what it spoke to ... i only started to see what it was saying after i learned that it spoke from two perceptions ( masculine & feminine ) and these two spoke as one, and this one being myself viewing the two ....

should you do a study on the replicated pattern of twos in the scripture you will find them incredible beyond belief ... i have bean studying them for years and yet still have not seen an end of them ...

[mozo33]

just to throw it out there ...

we are the Word/Son/Seed of God ... the scriptures are a narrative of the process happening in us presently ... a process of God revealing Himself in us as us ...

[Gwin Ru]

Jewish cosmic monotheism drew on Plato's writings, new book claims (https://religionnews.com/2022/06/02/new-book-claims-jewish-cosmic-monotheism-drew-on-platos-writings/)

Russell Gmirkin
RussellGmirkin.com (https://religionnews.com/2022/06/02/new-book-claims-jewish-cosmic-monotheism-drew-on-platos-writings/)
Thu, 02 Jun 2022 22:32 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s32/648109/large/Screenshot_from_2022_06_03_00_.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s32/648109/full/Screenshot_from_2022_06_03_00_.jpg)
Russell Gmirkin: Plato’s Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts. 'And that Yahweh was originally one of many lesser "Sons of God"'


A groundbreaking new book from Routledge by noted biblical scholar Russell Gmirkin proposes that the Jewish notion of a cosmic, eternal God of Creation first appeared in Genesis 1 around 270 BCE, drawing on the account of the creation of the kosmos in Plato's Timaeus. This new book builds on earlier research by Gmirkin, who has argued that the five books of Moses were written around 270 BCE at Alexandria, Egypt, utilizing various Greek sources found at the Great Library, including the writings of Plato. In Plato's Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts: Cosmic Monotheism and Terrestrial Polytheism in the Primordial History, Gmirkin argues:


That the "First Creation Account" in Genesis 1 shows systematic dependence on Plato's account of the creation of the kosmos by the eternal Demiurge or Craftsman, Plato's cosmic deity present at the dawn of time.



That the "Second Creation Account" of Genesis 2-3 shows systematic parallels with Plato's account of the creation of mortal life by the offspring of the Demiurge, the traditional Greek gods and goddesses living on earth.



That the figure of Yahweh in Genesis was not the Creator Elohim of Genesis 1 but one of the many "sons of God" who dwelled on earth.



That the story of the "sons of God" marrying beautiful daughters of men and having heroic gigantic offspring in Genesis 6 drew directly on Plato's Critias, the sequel to Timaeus.



That the subsequent corruption of this noble line and their destruction by earthquake and flood in Genesis also drew on Plato's Critias.



That Yahweh was only elevated to cosmic status as the sole god worthy of worship in Exodus­-Joshua by his later identification with the Creator in the Ten Commandments.

Russell Gmirkin, a biblical scholar and lecturer living in Portland, Oregon, has written extensively on the biblical use of Greek sources from the Great Library of Alexandria. In his 2006 book Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus, Gmirkin presented evidence that the Books of Moses were written by Jewish scholars around 270 BCE at the Great Library of Alexandria in Egypt, using various Greek historical sources found there. Gmirkin's 2017 book, Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible, identified Plato's writings as the most important of these Greek sources and the inspiration for Jewish monotheism, theocracy, and divine laws. This book was the first to systematically compare biblical, Greek and Ancient Near Eastern laws, showing that the Mosaic laws and constitution often most closely resemble those of Athens and that of Plato's Laws in particular.
Additional information about Plato's Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts is available at RussellGmirkin.com (http://RussellGmirkin.com) and Routledge.com/Platos-Timaeus-and-the-Biblical-Creation-Accounts-Cosmic-Monotheism (https://www.routledge.com/Platos-Timaeus-and-the-Biblical-Creation-Accounts-Cosmic-Monotheism/Gmirkin/p/book/9781032020822). To schedule an interview with author Russell Gmirkin, email at RUSSELLGMIRKIN@Yahoo.com (best) or call 503/442-5007. Related:


Judaism and Christianity - Two Thousand Years of Lies - 60 Years of State Terrorism (https://www.sott.net/article/156452-Judaism-and-Christianity-Two-Thousand-Years-of-Lies-60-Years-of-State-Terrorism#):



Judaism supposedly created Israel, and Judaism also is the parent of Christianity and Islam, so the issue of Judaism and Ancient Israel, from which it supposedly emerged, are not trifling topics. The fact is, as a growing body of scholarship demonstrates, there was no "ancient Israel" as depicted in the Bible. The Hebrew Bible is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a historical document, and trying to understand the history of Palestine by reading the Bible is like trying to understand Medieval history by reading Ivanhoe.

Oink Vey! Evidence ancient Israelites ate pork revealed by pig skeleton in First Temple-period Jerusalem (https://www.sott.net/article/455633-Oink-Vey-Evidence-ancient-Israelites-ate-pork-revealed-by-pig-skeleton-in-First-Temple-period-Jerusalem)



3,000 year old drawing of god found in Sinai could undermine our entire idea of Judaism (https://www.sott.net/article/382252-3000-year-old-drawing-of-god-found-in-Sinai-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-Judaism)



The Arabian cradle of Zion: Moses, Muhammad, and Wahhabo-Zionism (https://www.sott.net/article/419173-The-Arabian-cradle-of-Zion-Moses-Muhammad-and-Wahhabo-Zionism)



Polytheism and human sacrifice in early Israelite religion (https://www.sott.net/article/426753-Polytheism-and-human-sacrifice-in-early-Israelite-religion)


lsL7m6VSNTM

[Bill Ryan]

Jewish cosmic monotheism drew on Plato's writings, new book claims (https://religionnews.com/2022/06/02/new-book-claims-jewish-cosmic-monotheism-drew-on-platos-writings/)

Russell Gmirkin
RussellGmirkin.com (https://religionnews.com/2022/06/02/new-book-claims-jewish-cosmic-monotheism-drew-on-platos-writings/)
Thu, 02 Jun 2022 22:32 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s32/648109/large/Screenshot_from_2022_06_03_00_.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s32/648109/full/Screenshot_from_2022_06_03_00_.jpg)
Russell Gmirkin: Plato’s Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts. 'And that Yahweh was originally one of many lesser "Sons of God"'


A groundbreaking new bookThanks, and this is very fascinating stuff. :highfive:

This isn't the same book, but an earlier one on the same theme from 2017:

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Russell%20Gmirkin%20-%20Plato%20and%20the%20creation%20of%20the%20Hebrew%20Bible.pdf

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Russell%20Gmirkin%20-%20Plato%20and%20the%20creation%20of%20the%20Hebrew%20Bible.pdf

[Michel Leclerc]

just to throw it out there ...

we are the Word/Son/Seed of God ... the scriptures are a narrative of the process happening in us presently ... a process of God revealing Himself in us as us ...

Thank you, Mozo. Your phrasing reminds me of how Moses de Leon's compilation of interpretations called the (Sefer ha-)Zohar reads those texts. Have you read or consulted the Zohar? I have no access to the Aramaic original, alas, but am helped a lot by comparing the 5-volume Sperling English translation and the almost complete French translation by Charles Mopsik.

On a sideline apparently, but still, I think, the golden thread and road is to realise that any sufficient consideration of a text (as Theodor Wiesengrund Adorno put it: "die auslegende Versenkung in überlieferte Schriften" ("the explaining/explicative immersing oneself in handed-down/traditional writings")) yields insight and wisdom which one would not have reached or obtained without the texts considered, just like the texts themselves would not have yielded such qualitative content without a person studying them with such discipline of mind, openness of heart and craving of the body..

Yet I am sceptical of the intentions of those who have welded into one supposed whole the various Biblical texts to achieve political goals.

That is something entirely different from Moses de Leon’s kabbalistic view that each and every of these texts yields divine content for the sincere student, and that ultimately, these divine contents harmonise each other into one divine "message", as that is ultimately the essence of the divine: being uni-versal, turning itself into and its worshipers towards the One. That is, in Ibn 'Arabî's interpretation, the deep meaning of the profession of faith in Islam — as in all "monotheistic" religions.

Unity and harmony cannot be taken for granted nor presupposed (and then imposed), it can only be approximated or sensed by those who “devotionally devote” themselves to it.

[Gwin Ru]

MindMatters: Plato and Kim Jong-Un Walk Into a Bar: Talking Timaeus and the Bible with Russell Gmirkin (https://www.sott.net/article/469654-MindMatters-Plato-and-Kim-Jong-Un-Walk-Into-a-Bar-Talking-Timeaus-and-the-Bible-with-Russell-Gmirkin#) 01:18:17

Harrison Koehli and Adam Daniels
Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/469654-MindMatters-Plato-and-Kim-Jong-Un-Walk-Into-a-Bar-Talking-Timeaus-and-the-Bible-with-Russell-Gmirkin#)
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 00:00 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s32/651225/large/gmirkin2.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s32/651225/full/gmirkin2.jpg)

Russell Gmirkin (http://russellgmirkin.com/) is back to talk about his blockbuster latest book: Plato's Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts: Cosmic Monotheism and Terrestrial Polytheism in the Primordial History (https://smile.amazon.com/Platos-Timaeus-Biblical-Creation-Accounts-ebook/dp/B09V6RDMC2/).

Join us as we discuss the book's mind-bending conclusions: Plato's Timaeus and Critias were sources for much of the biblical primordial history, from the creation of the cosmos and mortal creatures, to Eden, the Flood and the Nephilim.

Genesis reflects Plato's cosmic monotheism and terrestrial polytheism, which devolved into Exodus-Judges' monolatry. Plato was also perhaps the first totalitarian political theorist. And his legacy lives on today.


SZvzyaCocss

Running Time: 01:18:17

Download: MP3 (https://media.sott.net/srn/20220709mnd-plato-and-kim-jong-un-walk-into-a-bar-talking-timeaus-and-the-bible-with-russell-gmirkin.mp3) — 108 MB

[Gwin Ru]

...

... some insights on the various books and interpretations of what currently constitutes that "Book"

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEcQUDd3Sok) https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ztuZWHj7wk/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEcCPYBEIoBSFXyq4qpAw4IARUAAIhCGAFwAcABBg==&rs=AOn4CLCqEsGnIHCS_cuf44q9ZudJzF1w_A 1:39:14 Now playing
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ztuZWHj7wk)Q & A On Beware The Priests (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ztuZWHj7wk)
2.6K viewsStreamed 11 hours ago


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zEcQUDd3Sok/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwE2CPYBEIoBSFXyq4qpAygIARUAAIhCGAFwAcABBvABAfgB1AaAAuADigIMCAAQARhlIGMoVzAP&rs=AOn4CLBAeCi348xTT8mrY9ERaKm6djLfIw 1:19:04 Now playing
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEcQUDd3Sok)BEWARE THE PRIESTS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEcQUDd3Sok)
2.8K views15 hours ago


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mh4OjH4fgjM/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEcCPYBEIoBSFXyq4qpAw4IARUAAIhCGAFwAcABBg==&rs=AOn4CLCYyjMHMK9iy35UavNnhZedRHmuXg 1:34:09 Now playing
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4OjH4fgjM)I Must Again Address The Issue Of The "Virgin" Birth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4OjH4fgjM)
4.6K viewsStreamed 6 days ago


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acL4Y-QYcuw&list=PUEo9S5mMQ7z4n7ZiuUoBFRw)

[Gwin Ru]

...

... Commentary on the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls by the Michael Prophesied by Daniel. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly8q7QvHVZw&t=0s) 31:04

https://yt3.ggpht.com/OLRokTUyDMVFJ7P5go85txS_9DSoHBXO-3x8W_WlyTZV7T7SoxpNR5Y3BCZ1Mj-VUW_46iHBaA=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj (https://www.youtube.com/@michaelunsealingthesevense1651) Michael Unsealing The Seven Seals (https://www.youtube.com/@michaelunsealingthesevense1651)

Dec 6, 2021

"If you are a Christian—or even if you’re not—and you want to understand Jesus and his Teaching, I would suggest that you just read the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which he wrote. Read them 'with thy heart'."

What does the Truth mean, the Way mean, the Life mean.

What those things refer to, is the three phases in the War of the Sons of Light.

The first phase is the Revelation of the Law

The second phase is the Revelation of “the resurrection"

The third phase is the Vision of the “Son of man”, also referred to as the "Vision of Knowledge" or the "Night Journey" of Mohammed and other names that pertains to the same Vision.
Thanksgiving Hymns: https://archive.org/details/pdfy-Uy_B... (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbTFtNEk2NXk1TTFvUlpuaXFCNTMzUHY5UUJrd3xBQ3Jtc0trTHdzcldHVWVkQ2ZrOVo1aUlrdDU0M3Qy NUZYQVB6Z2l5OFRkU3dZNG5MYTFYdlR6dExLb2JvY1Z0dEtvODFaU0sta1k0aklVZzEtdVdKU0RRaEhESVBoWXB0TEVwYnQwUGVj X0NFbjFhakhiRVEtRQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fpdfy-Uy_BZ_QGsaLiJ4Zs%2Fpage%2Fn291&v=Ly8q7QvHVZw)

Websites Michael:
https://unsealing-the-seven-seals.blo... (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa0pvN3BXN083aFJUa3UwTkRrQ1FMR1AzLXprQXxBQ3Jtc0tuNjZ2YWJfVjVab1BJY3BZcXVXb1lBRDRq TEVkSG1YcVlYN3c0UWdaeGwzWFJMYkNDWWdhUGRlRnFGcVo4VXlGbEtOZ18yekhBRGM1QTl3cnZzUU9LRnduWDU3UWFFX1Zlbkh4 N0YwcWFaOFkyR2JJRQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Funsealing-the-seven-seals.blogspot.com%2F&v=Ly8q7QvHVZw)

http://science-of-consciousness.blogs... (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbk9CZnp6bXlCMndENXpldUNWcDlSRl9oT3dDUXxBQ3Jtc0trNjNxc1VuWVQxREdQQTBFZ2t5NVZBVXRQ eEJuMFQzTXRsNk5udEVPdjlzMDBjVWJhN1AzYmxWaXZGR1Voa2NackxEdmNFVVJvLXpucFJaa1E3WW1INDRxZUJnU3BvazdFVWVF LXBkQldpUDBBWVRabw&q=http%3A%2F%2Fscience-of-consciousness.blogspot.com%2F2013%2F11%2Fcommentaries-on-teaching-of-jesus-and.html&v=Ly8q7QvHVZw)
Recorded 2013

Ly8q7QvHVZw

[Gwin Ru]

...

... Royston's take on these Hymns:

roypotterqa
(https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b)@RoystonPotter
(https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b)
Here is the link to the video that includes the info on the Psalms Jesus' wrote (not the Psalms in the Bible, but the Psalms in the Dead Sea Scrolls). The entire video is very important, with the introductory material I present before getting to the Psalms, and then an excerpt I give of the Psalms. But, specifically starting at the 1:10:00 minute mark. https://youtu.be/ZEUdL5tAdzY

"That Your Giving May Be In Secret,"Jesus Was A Non-Event (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEUdL5tAdzY) 1:46:52

https://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AMLnZu81uFcWCxLFS62h5DtMIojn1yKdMsp9GIp80mUC=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj (https://www.youtube.com/@roypotterqa) roypotterqa (https://www.youtube.com/@roypotterqa)
Streamed live on Dec 8, 2021

ZEUdL5tAdzY

[Gwin Ru]

...

... more about their good book of lies:

Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses (https://www.amazon.com/Egypt-knew-Pharaohs-nor-Israelites-ebook/dp/B00U8VK8JE)

by Ashraf Ezzat (https://www.amazon.com/Ashraf-Ezzat/e/B00U9W4L18/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1) (Author)
Format: Kindle Edition
4.4 out of 5 stars 185 ratings (https://www.amazon.com/Egypt-knew-Pharaohs-nor-Israelites-ebook/dp/B00U8VK8JE#customerReviews)


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/518gvnhvzsL.jpg

What if the whole story of the Exodus from Egypt was a fake story, and what if we could prove that it is?

Whenever we say ‘the Exodus’ everybody unconsciously and instantly recognizes the story as the fleeing of the Israelites headed by Moses from the grip of Egypt’s ruthless Pharaoh. Thanks to the Church, the Synagogue, the Mosque and of course Hollywood films this Exodus story has sunk deep in the collective subconscious of the masses, so deep that the story of Moses and Pharaoh has turned into an almost unshakable historical truth that once took place in Ancient Egypt.

But actually nothing in the ‘milieu of that story’ indicates that it happened in Egypt, except maybe the mistaken association between ‘Pharaoh’ and ‘King’ of Egypt.

Likewise, nothing in ancient Egyptian records or its oral tradition say or even allude to the fact that this tale of Moses really happened in Egypt. Even more shocking is the fact that the ancient Egyptian records do not refer to the Kings of Egypt as Pharaohs. Yes, Pharaoh was never a title for Egypt’s king. Linking Pharaoh to Ancient Egypt is merely a myth propagated by centuries of falsehood brought about by misleading interpretation of Biblical history.

The only reason we know the story of the Exodus happened in Egypt is because the Bible says so.

We keep on believing that is the case because mainstream Egyptologists just went along with the Biblical narrative and absentmindedly designated Egypt’s Kings as Pharaohs. But if we examined the Hebrew text the Bible (currently in our hands) used as a reference we will strangely not find Egypt mentioned in it as the site/land of the Exodus story.

The whole mess/deception took place during translating the Hebrew/Aramaic stories into Greek back in the third century BC. This is when Egypt was first hijacked and forcibly placed in the Hebrew Bible as the theater of the Israelite landmark stories.

Ironically this whole act of duplicity took place on Egyptian soil and specifically at its legendary library of Alexandria. But what if the Bible as we know it has long been tampered with?
• What if the first western translation of the so-called Israelite stories, that came to be known as the Septuagint Bible, was a distorted translation?

• What if the Israelite stories we all have been made to believe took place in Egypt simply did not?

• What if Egypt was fraudulently introduced in the Bible as the theater of the Israelite stories?

• What if the homeland of Judaism and the early Israelites is not Palestine?

• What if ancient Egypt never knew any so called Pharaohs?

• What if Abraham, Joseph and Moses never set foot in Egypt nor even dreamed about it?

• What if the whole story of the Exodus from Egypt was a fake story, and what if we could prove that it is?

[avid]

Conflicting scenarios…

[Eagle Eye]

The only reason we know the story of the Exodus happened in Egypt is because the Bible says so.


One evidence speaking of calamities and the river that became like blood:
https://thatankhlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ipuwerpapyrus14.jpg

[scotslad]

Interesting interpretation of the bible...

z899SKJ8WEc

Also found a PDF version of the book the video is based on...HERE (https://ia800202.us.archive.org/9/items/godmanwordmadefl00carerich/godmanwordmadefl00carerich.pdf)
(God-Man: The Word Made Flesh, by George W. Carey)

[Gwin Ru]

...

... ANGELS : GREAT DECEPTION EXPOSED WITH PAUL WALLIS & JEAN-CLAUDE (https://rumble.com/v45r65e-angels-great-deception-exposed-with-paul-wallis-and-jean-claude.html) 1:45:43


Streamed on: Jan 9, 7:07 pm EST

Jean-Claude@BeyondMystic (https://rumble.com/c/BeyondMystic)

v435tyq

[Gwin Ru]

...

... The Subversion of YHVH (https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b/the-subversion-of-yhvh:5) 1:36:30

May 10, 2024

roypotterqa
(https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b)
@RoystonPotter
(https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMY_LtqvAo4


@RoystonPotter:b/the-subversion-of-yhvh:5


Related:



The Corruption of the Abrahamic Religions (https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b/the-corruption-of-the-abrahamic:6) Intro



The Corruption Of The Abrahamic Religions Part 1 (https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b/The-Corruption-Of-The-Abrahamic-Religions-Part-1:e)



The Corruption Of The Abrahamic Religions Part 2 (https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b/The-Corruption-Of-The-Abrahamic-Religions-Part-2:9)



THE FINALE (https://odysee.com/@RoystonPotter:b/the-finale:2)

[ulli]

The Baha’i Faith is another Abrahamic religion, as its founder’s bloodline goes back to Abraham.

The writings of Baha’u’llah make it clear what God’s wish is for this age,

as the older divine messages get corrupted over the centuries, and need to be renewed every thousand or so years.

“O friends! It behooveth you to refresh and revive your souls through the gracious favors which in this Divine, this soul-stirring Springtime are being showered upon you. The Daystar of His great glory hath shed its radiance upon you, and the clouds of His limitless grace have overshadowed you.
How high the reward of him that hath not deprived himself of so great a bounty, nor failed to recognize the beauty of his Best-Beloved in this, His new attire.
Watch over yourselves, for the Evil One is lying in wait, ready to entrap you. Gird yourselves against his wicked devices, and, led by the light of the name of the All-Seeing God, make your escape from the darkness that surroundeth you.
Let your vision be world-embracing, rather than confined to your own self.

The Evil One is he that hindereth the rise and obstructeth the spiritual progress of the children of men.

It is incumbent upon every man, in this Day, to hold fast unto whatsoever will promote the interests, and exalt the station, of all nations and just governments.”

[Marianne]

Ulli, I agree with you about the need to bring on a new messiah and remind people of the laws that bring peace to our world.

We struggle on… but I have to tell you, Baha’i has brought me closer to God than I ever thought possible; and perhaps closer than I ever wanted to be. This is not the angry Old Testament god from my southern Baptist childhood — who made me hate church and question the inconsistencies.

The God of Baha’i is loving and kind.

[norman]

With this post, if anybody even cares, I'm likely to lose a bunch of people from my cyber comfort zone.


There is the "Great Reset NWO." (Darkness)

And the "Great Awakening NWO." (False Light)

This is the Masonic "Darkness to Light."

[wondering]

Norman, Would you say more about the Masonic "Darkness to Light "?

[ulli]

Secret societies and the Royal elites have highjacked Bahaullah’s message,

which was revealed by him during his captivity in the nineteenth century.

They even stole his terminology. But not the grassroots-elevating, democratic, or spiritual part of his message.

The NWO which we all have heard so much about is a totalitarian, deadly and evil system of deceit, and diabolical.

Here is an explanation from the Baha’i world order, which would clarify the original message:

The features of the “new World Order” are delineated in the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh and ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá and in the letters of Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice.

The institutions of the present-day Bahá’í Administrative Order, which constitute the “structural basis” of Bahá’u’lláh’s World Order, will mature and evolve into the Bahá’í World Commonwealth.

In this regard, Shoghi Effendi affirms that the Administrative Order “will, as its component parts, its organic institutions, begin to function with efficiency and vigor, assert its claim and demonstrate its capacity to be regarded not only as the nucleus but the very pattern of the New World Order destined to embrace in the fullness of time the whole of mankind.”


For additional information on the evolution of this new World Order, see, for example, the letters of Shoghi Effendi published in The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh.

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/shoghi-effendi/world-order-bahaullah/1#369510938

[norman]

Norman, Would you say more about the Masonic "Darkness to Light "?

The short version is that Freemasonry is dedicated to Lucifer and his "bringing of the Light".

For a proper explanation I'll have to take some time.

Meanwhile, this 45 minute listen does a good job of laying out the landscape in which these things matter and require our vigilance.

Alt Faith and the Promethean Fire (https://podbay.fm/p/canary-cry-radio/e/1711817067)

[arwen]

With this post, if anybody even cares, I'm likely to lose a bunch of people from my cyber comfort zone.


There is the "Great Reset NWO." (Darkness)

And the "Great Awakening NWO." (False Light)

This is the Masonic "Darkness to Light."

Correct. 100 percent.

Already, the decent and good people who were drawn to the "Great Awakening" have shifted in the past few months, without even noticing, to supporting genocide and the crack-down on anyone objecting to said genocide. It was so subtle that it was barely noticed. A very few have noticed and pulled out. But the majority are following their "Great Awakening" blindly down into another Abyss.....