Bitcoin soars on Chinese takeout

[mgray]

The price of Bitcoin in dollars has jumped $150 in Nov. My take here (http://wp.me/ppklu-hw)

[TargeT]

I understand the desire to drive traffic to your site, but couldn't you post at least a synopsis here?

your site is blocked from my work (most blogs are).



Bitcoin is back in the news, but this time it seems to be for all the right reasons.
http://assets.bwbx.io/images/i3keQV2prl44/v1/-1x-1.png
After a blockbuster 2013, the digital currency tumbled throughout 2014 on negative headlines, such as the February 2014 bankruptcy filing of Mt. Gox, a Tokyo-based Bitcoin exchange. Since then, the currency has been bouncing back and forth between $200 and $300.

That is, until now.

Bitcoin has embarked on a seven-week winning streak, the longest since November 2013, according to Bloomberg data. Industry experts and insiders have a range of reasons for the recent surge.

Market participants are citing two big reasons for the rally. The first is enhanced interest and acceptance from established financial companies. Much of this is due to Bitcoin's blockchain technology, which Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and a number of other firms have taken an interest in as they seek to apply it to overhauling the trading of securities, derivatives, and loans.

According to Gil Luria, an analyst at Wedbush Securities who covers the sector, said in an interview that Bitcoin is finally catching on with the financial establishment.

It is becoming increasingly clear to banks and financial institutions that bitcoin and blockchain technology will become an important part of the future delivery of financial services based on media coverage and investments by other large banks. As investors realize that many of the applications will be built on the bitcoin blockchain, they eventually arrive at the conclusion that if these applications succeed the price of the bitcoin currency will go up. Our 12-month price target for bitcoin is $400 based on expectations for broad adoption of bitcoin applications within the next ten years.

Others in the community are speculating that the economic situation in China could be fuelling the rise as market turbulence encourages local investors to get creative when it comes to moving their money out of the country. Bitcoin offers one potential avenue around capital controls.

This year has brought about an unprecedented exodus of cash from China following a surprise devaluation of the yuan in August and a two-month stock market rout. Investors pulled $194 billion from the country in September, extending this year’s outflow to $669 billion.

Adding to the positive sentiment is a recent decision from a top European Union court, which ruled that exchanging virtual currencies should be exempt from value-added tax in the same way as traditional cash. Basically, this levels the playing field a bit between Bitcoin and traditional money.

Ashraf Laidi, chief executive officer of Intermarket Strategy, argued in a note this morning that the momentum from the EU ruling could Bitcoin propel the crypto currency to "store of value" status:

Bitcoin surged in June-July amid surging market expectations of a Greece exit and the revelation that China held less gold in its reserves than had been anticipated. Last week’s court ruling should push exchanges, brokerages and banks to launch bitcoin-related instruments such as ETFS, aimed at trading, hedging and speculation. Bitcoin’s medium of exchange will only grow from here. Its 'store of value' status may not be a consideration for today, but will become so next year.

Who knew legitimacy could be so lucrative?


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-02/bitcoin-is-suddenly-surging-again

[TrumanCash]

That's the problem with Bitcoin--It's unstable and unpredictable like the stock market. Also, it has no intrinsic value. It is invisible and you cannot hold it in your hand (intangible); therefore, it is uncontrollable.

Silver and gold coins could potentially be used in everyday local commerce but people have been brainwashed into thinking they are only as valuable as the daily (fraudulent) stock market price for silver or gold.

Fiat currencies could work if we could trust governments and if governments would not be run by sociopaths. They are more workable on a local level and some local governments have local currencies such as the amazing Ithaca Hour (http://www.paulglover.org/hourintro.html) currency. I believe their model is what we should be working for on the local level. CASH IS KING!

"Here in Ithaca, New York, we've begun to gain control of the social and environmental effects of commerce by issuing over $110,000 of our own local paper money, since 1991. Thousands of purchases and many new friendships have been made with this cash, and several million dollars value of local trading has been added to the Grassroots National Product. We printed our own money because we watched Federal dollars come to town, shake a few hands, then leave to buy rainforest lumber and fight wars. Ithaca's HOURS, by contrast, stay in our region to help us hire each other. While dollars make us increasingly dependent on transnational corporations and bankers, HOURS reinforce community trading and expand commerce which is more accountable to our concerns for ecology and social justice. Here's how it works: the Ithaca HOUR is Ithaca's $10.00 bill, because ten dollars per hour is the average of wages/salaries in Tompkins County. These HOUR notes, in five denominations, buy plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, roofing, nursing, chiropractic, child care, car and bike repair, food, eyeglasses, firewood, gifts, and thousands of other goods and services. Our credit union accepts them for mortgage and loan fees. People pay rent with HOURS. The best restaurants in town take them, as do movie theaters, bowling alleys, two large locally-owned grocery stores, our local hospital, many garage sales, 55 farmer's market vendors, the Chamber of Commerce, and 300 other businesses. Hundreds more have earned and spent HOURS who are not in the HOUR Town directory. Ithaca's new HOURly minimum wage lifts the lowest paid up without knocking down higher wages. For example, several of Ithaca's organic farmers are paying the highest commmon farm labor wages in the world: $10.00 of spending power per HOUR. These farmers benefit by the HOUR's loyalty to local agriculture. On the other hand, dentists, massage therapists and lawyers charging more than the $10.00 average per hour are permitted to collect several HOURS hourly. But we hear increasingly of professional services provided for our equitable wage. Everyone who agrees to accept HOURS is paid two HOURS ($20.00) for being listed in the HOURS directory. Every year they may apply to be paid two additional HOURS, as reward for continuing participation. This is how we gradually and carefully increase the per capita supply of our money."

"Here in Ithaca, New York, we've begun to gain control of the social and environmental effects of commerce by issuing over $110,000 of our own local paper money, since 1991. Thousands of purchases and many new friendships have been made with this cash, and several million dollars value of local trading has been added to the Grassroots National Product.

"We printed our own money because we watched Federal dollars come to town, shake a few hands, then leave to buy rainforest lumber and fight wars. Ithaca's HOURS, by contrast, stay in our region to help us hire each other. While dollars make us increasingly dependent on transnational corporations and bankers, HOURS reinforce community trading and expand commerce which is more accountable to our concerns for ecology and social justice.

"Here's how it works: the Ithaca HOUR is Ithaca's $10.00 bill, because ten dollars per hour is the average of wages/salaries in Tompkins County. These HOUR notes, in five denominations, buy plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, roofing, nursing, chiropractic, child care, car and bike repair, food, eyeglasses, firewood, gifts, and thousands of other goods and services. Our credit union accepts them for mortgage and loan fees. People pay rent with HOURS. The best restaurants in town take them, as do movie theaters, bowling alleys, two large locally-owned grocery stores, our local hospital, many garage sales, 55 farmer's market vendors, the Chamber of Commerce, and 300 other businesses. Hundreds more have earned and spent HOURS who are not in the HOUR Town directory.

"Ithaca's new HOURly minimum wage lifts the lowest paid up without knocking down higher wages. For example, several of Ithaca's organic farmers are paying the highest commmon farm labor wages in the world: $10.00 of spending power per HOUR. These farmers benefit by the HOUR's loyalty to local agriculture. On the other hand, dentists, massage therapists and lawyers charging more than the $10.00 average per hour are permitted to collect several HOURS hourly.

"Everyone who agrees to accept HOURS is paid two HOURS ($20.00) for being listed in the HOURS directory. Every year they may apply to be paid two additional HOURS, as reward for continuing participation. This is how we gradually and carefully increase the per capita supply of our money.

"As we discover new ways to provide for each other, we replace dependence on imports. Yet our greater self-reliance, rather than isolating Ithaca, gives us more potential to reach outward with ecological export industry. We can capitalize new businesses with loans of our own cash. HOUR loans are made without interest charges.

"We regard Ithaca's HOURS as real money, backed by real people, real time, real skills and tools. Dollars, by contrast, are funny money, backed no longer by gold or silver but by less than nothing- $8.4 trillion of national debt.

[TargeT]

That's the problem with Bitcoin--It's unstable and unpredictable like the stock market. Also, it has no intrinsic value. It is invisible and you cannot hold it in your hand (intangible); therefore, it is uncontrollable.

the only "unstable" or "unpredictable" part of bitcoin is how it relates to the USD... bitcoin itself does not fluctuate at all. It does have value, the value of SECURITY, of INFLEXIBLE Volume, Reputability with in transactions! these are the strengths, these are why bitcoins WILL take over (or some other crytpo currency combined with block chain technology).

[mgray]

Apologies TargeT: Here it is:

The price of a bitcoin has jumped $150 so far this month and it's only the 4th of Nov.

Bitcoin is the digital crypto-currency I wrote about last year, which I thought had great promise, but was not ready for prime time as the value soared to nearly $1,200, before crashing under the weight of fraud and manipulation charges.

This time seems different, but still scary for different reasons. Bitcoin is a much widely known commodity, with many retail and banking options. Although the wallets used to hold bitcoins are not up to being consumer friendly just yet.

So why is bitcoin jumping?

Well the Chinese government has put restrictions on their currency and capital controls on its yuan leaving the country at the end of October. Since then the value of bitcoin in yuan has risen Y900.

So doing the math, I would say the upper-class Chinese are bidding up the price as they convert their yuan holdings to bitcoins in order to get their wealth out of the country and into real estate and tangible assets here in the states and abroad.

So to call bitcoin a currency is a little disingenuous, bitcoin right now for the Chinese is a cheaper version of Western Union, without all the government reporting.

Once this operation is squashed by the Chinese government, which will probably be very soon, the price will more than likely fall back in the $400-$500 range, where it has been for most of this year.

[TrumanCash]

I don't see that any "crypto currency" "WILL take over" unless all people accept it. Fortunately, not everybody wants to live their lives in front of a computer screen or with a ***king cell phone in their hands. As the technocracy increasingly attempts to force its tyranny upon the people of this planet more people will see the value in getting BACK TO NATURE.

Even with Bitcoin one cannot escape the number of the "beast" [See US Code, Title 42, Section 666 (http://www.healthfreedom.info/mark_of_the_beast.htm)]. You cannot even have a cell phone or internet connection without the use of that number. It is how the NWO is implementing their agenda.

The bankster elitists are not going to let anyone take their power away without a fight, so in order for the "beast system" to be dismantled, the elitists/Illuminati/Bilderbergers/banksters (or whatever name they go by) must be arrested and their wealth taken away from and given back to the people they stole it from. There is no other way out of this trap. It's time for the peasants to storm the castle!

The time to do this is NOW! We need to stop thinking that Bitcoin (or Jesus) is going to save us. I agree with Bill Ryan here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85651-Is-the-counterculture-today-doing-a-better-job-than-the-counterculture-in-the-60s-and-70s&p=1004730&viewfull=1#post1004730) that we won't have another chance to turn things around later on.

You can call me old fashioned or whatever, but if I don't have it in my hand, my pocket or otherwise in my physical possession, it's not mine and it's not real. And guess what--There are millions of people like me on this planet and we are just going to say NO! :no:

A tomato has value. A cucumber has value. An apple has value. A jug of water has value. An organic garden with rich soil is true wealth. Crypto currencies are a fiction. They are not real (unless you believe ideas are edible).

Digital currencies of any kind are the illusion. And I am not even saying they are s**t. For example, if a solar flare or a false flag takes the grid down what are the digital prophets going to eat or drink? When they try to flush down the remnants of the last morsels from the pantry into the poop shoot that no longer works, they may suddenly realize the illusion they have relied upon for their survival is actually not even real. And if they are smart they will realize that that poop floating in their unflushable toilets that is stinking up their house has real value. They may even suddenly realize what the concept of real value is. They may even have a massive epiphany and scoop up that poop and take it outside and put it in the soil--or better yet--a compost pile and start a garden.

This is the trick of the "Illuminati"; they want us to believe the illusion is real. So that is why they are allowing crypto currencies to exist at all. They have not outlawed them. They want us to buy into their cashless system. Aaron Russo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3NA17CCboA) warned us about this. Wake up people!

Remember the oft-quoted line from that old Twilight Zone episode? "The book, TO SERVE MAN--It's a cookbook!!!!!!! :shout:

TLC

[TargeT]

You can call me old fashioned or whatever, but if I don't have it in my hand, my pocket or otherwise in my physical possession, it's not mine and it's not real. And guess what--There are millions of people like me on this planet and we are just going to say NO!

So print it out, then it's in your hand, or your pocket, no one said you HAVE to keep bitcoins digital.. in fact a TON of people back their bitcoins up this way (the old paper way, in a safe, printed out on dead tree parts).


A tomato has value. A cucumber has value. An apple has value. A jug of water has value. An organic garden with rich soil is true wealth. Crypto currencies are a fiction. They are not real (unless you believe ideas are edible).

Do you understand the Block Chain? The block chain has value, immense value; this is why the "old" financial system is adopting it. Bitcoin has value due to the BlockChain technology on its own (intrinsic) it also has value due to demand (which has never really slacked).




Digital currencies of any kind are the illusion. And I am not even saying they are s**t. For example, if a solar flare or a false flag takes the grid down what are the digital prophets going to eat or drink? When they try to flush down the remnants of the last morsels from the pantry into the poop shoot that no longer works, they may suddenly realize the illusion they have relied upon for their survival is actually not even real. And if they are smart they will realize that that poop floating in their unflushable toilets that is stinking up their house has real value. They may even suddenly realize what the concept of real value is. They may even have a massive epiphany and scoop up that poop and take it outside and put it in the soil--or better yet--a compost pile and start a garden.

Do you understand how the majority of toilets work? they will flush as long as you have water to pour into the holding tank... it's mechanical not electrical.

Since you can print your bit coins, or forge them into actual coins... this argument is nill (plus a solar flare like that would cause so many issues no system would withstand it wholly.. regardless if your money is on dead trees or digitally stored). Did you know that around 80%+ of FRNs are digital and never have existed on paper? so,,, the boat you are worried about us jumping into is the boat we are already in.



Remember: the only constant is change. Change is not to be feared, only guided to our best interests. Currently bitcoin can support the velocity of financial change needed to correct the biggest control structure oppressing us today... NOTHING else can claim this.

[TrumanCash]

"Do you understand how the majority of toilets work? they will flush as long as you have water to poor into the holding tank... it's mechanical not electrical."

Huh?

It appears that you have not thought this through: The water needed to flush a toilet is only available if there is electricity. If (or when) the grid goes down you have only one flush, then nothing.

Bitcoin like all digital and fiat currencies require trust. I and millions of other people do not trust them and don't want them. Especially when they fluctuate more wildly than the stock market!

If anybody can print them and forge them, then anyone can counterfeit them. And if the electricity goes out how are you going to print them or forge them?

Here's a tip you can use: When the electricity goes out and you have used the one and only last flush in the poop shoot, you can have a back up bucket with some sawdust (or other suitable carbon material) and use that. You can get fancy and build a box around the bucket and put a toilet seat on top. Then you will have something of real value.

I am all for change if it is positive and sustainable. Crypto currencies are a trap and that is why the banksters have not outlawed them. They want us to change to their digital cashless system and that is not positive or sustainable. It is slavery.

"May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams

[WhiteLove]

The price of Bitcoin in dollars has jumped $150 in Nov. My take here (http://wp.me/ppklu-hw)

Very good article!

[ThePythonicCow]

"Do you understand how the majority of toilets work? they will flush as long as you have water to poor into the holding tank... it's mechanical not electrical."

Huh?

It appears that you have not thought this through: The water needed to flush a toilet is only available if there is electricity. If (or when) the grid goes down you have only one flush, then nothing.
I can take a bucket down to the pond a couple hundred yards from me, and get water that I can pour into the bowl (don't even need a holding tank), and keep on flushing.

... granted ... off topic ...

Like more or less everything, real or virtual, there are scenarios in which such a thing is useful, and other scenarios in which it is useless.

This is true of computers, pantry food, bullets, gold, bitcoins, the knowledge of how to survive in the wilderness with nothing but the clothes on your back, or the knowledge of how to administer web servers.

What's more interesting, to me at least, is whether, in those scenarios where bitcoins do "work" (electrical grid and Internet and my computer still working, and someone else I might want to trade with will trade in bitcoins, and we have a means to transfer the traded item) ... then ... even in that bitcoin friendly scenario ... would I want to (1) encourage, (2) tolerate, or (3) avoid using bitcoins.

... that's an interesting question in my view.

[TargeT]

Bitcoin like all digital and fiat currencies require trust. I and millions of other people do not trust them and don't want them. Especially when they fluctuate more wildly than the stock market!

You might as well say you and "Billions" since surely there are several billion non-bitcoin users (when you go for a logical fallacy, go big or go home!)

money fluctuates against money all the time; I get the impression that you assume that bitcoins can only be valued in USD, this is not the case at all; in fact if you wanted to speculate on bitcoin (or any currency) you could easily do so and possibly make more "money"... right now bitcoin vs Yen is spiking (and the USD is slowly following) there's money to be made there for those who care to.


Here's a tip you can use: When the electricity goes out and you have used the one and only last flush in the poop shoot, you can have a back up bucket with some sawdust (or other suitable carbon material) and use that. You can get fancy and build a box around the bucket and put a toilet seat on top. Then you will have something of real value.


You're preachin to the quire brother, I live on a tiny spec in the Caribbean ocean & loose power almost monthly (that's how I know my toilets still work.. haha, I get my water from two 15,000 gallon cisterns (rain water) so if I need more a bucket and a rope serve well) of course I also live on a farm so all the rest is just good knowledge (my sewage goes into a septic tank, I plant shallow rooted fruiting trees in the leech field) and I have 17 rescue horses on my property turning out HUNDREDS of pounds of amazing fertilizer every year and am blessed with a 365 day growing season. I could go on and on but lets just say "I've given this some thought"....

but none of that really matters when we speak of "money" since "money" is and always has been purely a concept, an energy store as it were (I think money should be measured in KWh or some other form of energy... since energy is ultimately what we all desire.. what a great intrinsic value holder eh? Still can't eat it though...) BUT, since all money is just a conceptual tool to assist in trade the "type" is what is being debated here really.

I guess when I said "take over" I was not being very grammatically accurate, Bitcoin will not "take over" in the sense that it will be the only currency used in the world; but it will "take" a major role in our economy as it avoids ALL taxation and middleman fees (aka the current control methods/structure) we are moving to freedom through things like Bitcoin.. it's VERY Agorist, and I suport anything Agora.



... would I want to (1) encourage, (2) tolerate, or (3) avoid using bitcoins.

... that's an interesting question in my view.

I do believe that is the question before all of us now.

but maybe it should be:

what is the system (Fiat currency) I'm tolerating (and encouraging through its use) equate to, what is the outcome of using such a system?

and of course alternately, what do crypto-currencies support and encourage (and in this situation, undermine and help to destroy)?

Since we are already "acting" as FRN delegates, maybe we need to re-evaluate our action first, before we can even consider a new one.

I currently own no bitcoins, don't even have a wallet (I tried one out a few years ago just to see what the software was about, but that was many phones ago) however I like to ACT on what I've learn (see previous paragraph about where I live) and I will start supporting cryptocurrecy; I'm going to add a shopping cart to my web site and a wallet to my phone and give a 25% discount for bitcoin use (same discount I offer to island residents and their friends / families).

I'm a keyboard warrior, an Army warrior, and hopefully at least through example: a Social change warrior.

[Ewan]

I'm utterly convinced no form of currency is needed whatsoever, and I've given it considerable thought over the years.

It would require a great deal of re-education though and be met with enormous resistance.

[robinr1]

I'm utterly convinced no form of currency is needed whatsoever, and I've given it considerable thought over the years.

It would require a great deal of re-education though and be met with enormous resistance.



how do u figure this would work among 7 billion people? honestly curious

[moekatz]

Ewan--I'd like to know more about your thoughts..I feel-don't KNOW- that no for of currency is needed, just as you do.

[TargeT]

Ewan--I'd like to know more about your thoughts..I feel-don't KNOW- that no for of currency is needed, just as you do.

IMO

currency is a product of scarcity. once scarcity is eliminated, currency will seem like a silly thing.

Best (easiest to explain) example is Star Trek. when you can synthesize anything you desire, when "resources" are limitless (and they are... only our understanding of how to manipulate reality is limited currently since a "resource" can be literally anything once you know how to manipulate it correctly).

At that point (and it's coming rapidly) money will simply fall by the wayside, information might be quasi considered a replacement at that point for "money", or perhaps innovation... but not really, not in the same scarcity sense.

[Morbid]

at the end of the day, currently there are very few things available to us outside of the current financial system:
- barter
- precious metals
- cryptocurrencies
- promise

[Carmody]

I'm utterly convinced no form of currency is needed whatsoever, and I've given it considerable thought over the years.

It would require a great deal of re-education though and be met with enormous resistance.

how do u figure this would work among 7 billion people? honestly curious


Break the foundation of the scarcity paradigm.

free energy, hyper-dimensional knowledge (among people in general), and transmutation of atomic structures.

No material or energy issues for anyone, anywhere....is the result.

Human values change in the face of that.

It all comes into human space, on the wings of one discovery (any given discovery in one area unfolds into the rest), whether it is held back or not.

The cracks of the system that blocks it, are getting mighty big.

That is why some of us fight so hard for free energy, or transmutation (alchemy), or proving that PSI is real, and so on. Any one of them in the mainstream system --- smashes the entire paradigm. They individually are all the same, the same root science.