Zen Made Easy

[Chester]

yes, I am a fan of Tim Freke

4WaRwVKwX7A

[Ioneo]

Thanks Sam. I'll have to check out more of Tim's stuff. I'm glad to find someone who cuts through the BS surrounding these religions and gets to the center of things.

[meeradas]

Yeah, Tim's freke-ing great.

First got to know him thru "Who's driving the dream bus (http://whosdrivingthedreambus.com/purchase.html)" [worth watching]:

http://theawakenedstate.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/51O-oy1V4bL.jpg

[gord]

I have 3 of his books . Maybe I'll even read them some day. Or I could slap myself in the face until I figure out the sound of one hand clapping.

[Guish]

Was Zen ever hard?

[Ioneo]

Only when others try to make it hard.

[Chester]

not hard - not hard to grasp the mystery...

If I could, I would imagine anyone can.

but I am like Tim... I jumped back into my story - still... its never the same.

I recommend Tim's "Lucid Living" above all his books.

[Skyhaven]

Zen is already easy at its core, but from a perspective that is born in difficulty Zen can seem particularly difficult.

[zen deik]

Breathe....

[greybeard]

Here you go Sam-
my friend
Love Chris

http://timfreke.com/Event/2064/The+Deep+Awakening++Sedona+USA


The Deep Awakening Sedona USA
January 22nd 3:30PM - 24th 3:15PM, 2016
AZ 86326, USA
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Experience oneness and big love in the deep awake state.

There is an early bird rate of $300 tuition on all rooms until Dec 15th and thereafter is will be $350. So do book early!


- See more at: http://timfreke.com/Event/2064/The+Deep+Awakening++Sedona+USA#sthash.69MrBOhN.dpuf

[lake]

Well, I have looked at Zen and near enough all man made concepts of limited indoctrination.
Looked at Zen about 20ish years ago but to refresh I watched the OP you tube video.

Its still the same lack of responsibility, as far as my perception views it.

Its based upon anothers considerations of this experience and not of the self's ownership, which has been derived from single thought and found determination.

Lets take this question:

What was your original face?

This is a simplistic question (from my point of view).
There has been no face but will always be a face and the face has been and is, all concepts of a face whilst being at the same point no face. I determine the face I wear at any point of now or not at the same point.
It is my choice.

But of course this is MY CONCEPT OF A PERCEPTION WITHIN LIMITED AWARENESS.

NOT ANOTHERS.

Yes read everything, correlate and collaborate as much as possible but please only define your nature by YOUR OWN thoughts.

Im not attempting to convince you of my thoughts, I know that for many, even in the alternative community, my views of this place are difficult to state the least!
But to me this is but limitation and indoctrination.
Man made thought control .... still ongoing.
Remember, no one else has EVER lived YOUR life here ....... although you may have lived it multiple times and may continue to do so?

just my limited point of view, thats all

[Chester]

There's a still pond. A frog jumps into the pond.

"Plop"

[lake]

Nipple .... oh sorry meant ripple ....... :facepalm:

[zen deik]

And the amoebas surf.....

[Guish]

Well, I have looked at Zen and near enough all man made concepts of limited indoctrination.
Looked at Zen about 20ish years ago but to refresh I watched the OP you tube video.

Its still the same lack of responsibility, as far as my perception views it.

Its based upon anothers considerations of this experience and not of the self's ownership, which has been derived from single thought and found determination.

Lets take this question:

What was your original face?

This is a simplistic question (from my point of view).
There has been no face but will always be a face and the face has been and is, all concepts of a face whilst being at the same point no face. I determine the face I wear at any point of now or not at the same point.
It is my choice.

But of course this is MY CONCEPT OF A PERCEPTION WITHIN LIMITED AWARENESS.

NOT ANOTHERS.

Yes read everything, correlate and collaborate as much as possible but please only define your nature by YOUR OWN thoughts.

Im not attempting to convince you of my thoughts, I know that for many, even in the alternative community, my views of this place are difficult to state the least!
But to me this is but limitation and indoctrination.
Man made thought control .... still ongoing.
Remember, no one else has EVER lived YOUR life here ....... although you may have lived it multiple times and may continue to do so?

just my limited point of view, thats all

You're trying to explain something the mind can't grasp. It's like trying to grasp water with your hands.

G6KyQIo9Q7M

My experience of Zazen is the same as at 45.26 in the video.

[Skyhaven]

Well, I have looked at Zen and near enough all man made concepts of limited indoctrination.
Looked at Zen about 20ish years ago but to refresh I watched the OP you tube video.

Its still the same lack of responsibility, as far as my perception views it.

Its based upon anothers considerations of this experience and not of the self's ownership, which has been derived from single thought and found determination.

Lets take this question:

What was your original face?

This is a simplistic question (from my point of view).
There has been no face but will always be a face and the face has been and is, all concepts of a face whilst being at the same point no face. I determine the face I wear at any point of now or not at the same point.
It is my choice.

But of course this is MY CONCEPT OF A PERCEPTION WITHIN LIMITED AWARENESS.

NOT ANOTHERS.

Yes read everything, correlate and collaborate as much as possible but please only define your nature by YOUR OWN thoughts.

Im not attempting to convince you of my thoughts, I know that for many, even in the alternative community, my views of this place are difficult to state the least!
But to me this is but limitation and indoctrination.
Man made thought control .... still ongoing.
Remember, no one else has EVER lived YOUR life here ....... although you may have lived it multiple times and may continue to do so?

just my limited point of view, thats all

Can you explain what you mean by 'lack of responsibility'?

[lake]

Its still the same lack of responsibility, as far as my perception views it.

Its based upon anothers considerations of this experience and not of the self's ownership, which has been derived from single thought and found determination.



Can you explain what you mean by 'lack of responsibility'?

Well I thought that I had in the above, bold text, but maybe not!

We view a world which is self limited thought. The mass only considers that which is defined by authority. To have a lack of responsibility renders the individual as sane.
This rendering defines a moral compass, which is agreed to by the mass.
The individual may consider other avenues of path, outside of the mainstream but will still be with in the banks of the normal flow. They may think of their supposed new drama as being a enlightened freedom but they are still vibrating in some one else's energy.

If one walks a path flattened by another then what use is the journey?

If you only echo another's words and deeds, what after three score years and ten, have you deciphered? Nothing for yourself that is certain!

A lack of responsibility is when one accepts and complies from something else's moral code..

Surely it is better to be wrong by your own considerations than live a pathetic time by the words of some being in the past? Which as yet have served only a single purpose and that have not put right any wrongs.

As a being you may look at many things, you consider many things but then mostly agree with a group think. No I am not being rude.
The concept to stop what each of you think is thought and understand that it is not .... is difficult. Most of your thoughts are not yours they are the sub conscious consensus opinion.
This is after removing the 70ish percentage of individual thought which is NOT you but the ego/fear mind created to hobble and castrate each awareness.

So rather than define what a lack of responsibility is lets look at expansion of a reality birthed into completion.

I am ....... at this point of my awareness perceiving my being.
I am .... perceiving this being from elsewhere.
I am ....... understanding that here I am lake, that I have no need to grasp at water as IT FLOWS TO ME and I hold it as I choose within the body of MY creation.

But of course it is only my perception.

By the way .... love is selfish and truth is empathy.

[Chester]

Well, I have looked at Zen and near enough all man made concepts of limited indoctrination.
Looked at Zen about 20ish years ago but to refresh I watched the OP you tube video.

Its still the same lack of responsibility, as far as my perception views it.

Its based upon anothers considerations of this experience and not of the self's ownership, which has been derived from single thought and found determination.

Lets take this question:

What was your original face?

This is a simplistic question (from my point of view).
There has been no face but will always be a face and the face has been and is, all concepts of a face whilst being at the same point no face. I determine the face I wear at any point of now or not at the same point.
It is my choice.

But of course this is MY CONCEPT OF A PERCEPTION WITHIN LIMITED AWARENESS.

NOT ANOTHERS.

Yes read everything, correlate and collaborate as much as possible but please only define your nature by YOUR OWN thoughts.

Im not attempting to convince you of my thoughts, I know that for many, even in the alternative community, my views of this place are difficult to state the least!
But to me this is but limitation and indoctrination.
Man made thought control .... still ongoing.
Remember, no one else has EVER lived YOUR life here ....... although you may have lived it multiple times and may continue to do so?

just my limited point of view, thats all

You're trying to explain something the mind can't grasp. It's like trying to grasp water with your hands.

G6KyQIo9Q7M

My experience of Zazen is the same as at 45.26 in the video.

...all "things" become "i," there is no greater love than this.

indeed, yes.

hey Chris, I am back on top of "that mountain" - we shall see if boredom emerges again. If so, I will label it a "pathology" in the category of "illness."


@lake

"holy freaking wow..." what a post! Thanks was not enough.

[greybeard]

Glad your your Self again Sam.
Much love
Chris

[Shadowman]

...all "things" become "i," there is no greater love than this.

indeed, yes.

hey Chris, I am back on top of "that mountain" - we shall see if boredom emerges again. If so, I will label it a "pathology" in the category of "illness."


Hi Sam,

Being is easy, Zen is simply being. It is identification with the mind, which seeks reality via conceptualisation, which causes "complications"...

Man is born with an instinct for naturalness. He has never forgotten the days of his primordial perfection, except insomuch as the memory became buried under the artificial superstructure of civilization and its artificial concepts. Sahaja means natural... The tree grows according to Sahaja, natural and spontaneous in complete conformity with the Natural Law of the Universe. Nobody tells it what to do or how to grow. It has no swadharma or rules, duties and obligations incurred by birth. It has only svabhava - its own inborn self or essence - to guide it. Sahaja is that nature which, when established in oneself, brings the state of absolute freedom and peace.[11]

The practitioner is now a siddha, a realized soul. He becomes invulnerable, beyond all dangers, when all forms melt away into the Formless, "when surati merges in nirati, japa is lost in ajapā" (Sākhī, "Parcā ko Aṅga," d.23). The meeting of surati and nirati is one of the signs of sahaja-siddhi; surati is an act of will even when the practitioner struggles to disengage himself from worldly attachments. But when his worldliness is totally destroyed with the dissolution of the ego, there is nirati, cessation of the mental flux, which implies cessation of all willed efforts. Nirati (ni-rati) is also cessation of attractions, since the object of attraction and the seeker are now one. In terms of layayoga, nirati is dissolution of the mind in "Sound," nāda.[16]

Ramana Maharshi distinguished between kevala nirvikalpa samadhi and sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi.

Sahaja samadhi is a state in which a silent level within the subject is maintained along with (simultaneously with) the full use of the human faculties.[17]

Kevala nirvikalpa samadhi is temporary, [web 1][web 2] whereas sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi is a continues state throughout daily activity.[17] This state seems inherently more complex than samadhi, since it involves several aspects of life, namely external activity, internal quietude, and the relation between them.[17] It also seems to be a more advanced state, since it comes after the mastering of samadhi.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahaja

Good to see you are visiting the summit again. You will find the courage to rise each time you fall/slip. But it will stabilise eventually,

With Love Old Friend,

tim

[Chester]

@lake

Hi Lake - I really appreciated your point and have been "looking at things."

I can see the points and then I saw this.

Someone might hand me a guitar. They then play their own guitar in front of me. They show me exactly how to play what they are playing. They then show me how what they are playing can be "written down" and "read" by another who has been taught to "read" what was written such that the other can play the same song even if they never heard it much less watched someone else play it so they might learn through that form of observation.

In all the above, the other has essentially imitated another and this appears to me (this writer) about the same thing as not taking responsibility to play my own song.

Yet let's say someone hands me a guitar and says watch me play. And I watch and I see that he is able to produce music from the guitar. I then take the guitar he has given me and I go off with this guitar for some time and one day I hear that I am producing sounds from the guitar which are closer to music than noise yet are unique.

I see most religion as of the former and I see Zen as of the latter. Replace guitar with "to be."

Now if we conclude that even "to be" is giving away our responsibility because others have "become" before us and so we are just following a crowd and giving away our responsibility. On a side note, how do we even know that being is nothing but an illusion in the first place? And if so, all actions whether followers of others or original are also illusions so none of this may really matter.

I like your point anyways but perhaps that's just some rebelliousness at the heart of my being and my concern is that rebelliousness is another act others that have gone before have demonstrated... ugghhhh is there nothing left to be original?

[Chester]

A Zen master told me, "Do the opposite of what I tell you."

So I didn't.



(not mine - from here (http://www.higherperspectives.com/buddhist-jokes-1463232161.html))

[Skyhaven]

He's right, the opposite of telling one something, is to hold silent. Games of semantics are only diversions from what is real. The Zen master pokes fun at the student and answers with irony because he/she knows the wordly teaching is foolish, like fingers pointing to the moon, look at the fingers and you will not see the moon... When one needs someone to point a finger to be able to find the moon one is obviously not into tune with what is real and right above their nose, which is the bright moon up in the sky, instead one is only focused on the teacher's fingers.

[Clear Light]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JAym1JPo1Y8/UARFEUKN4cI/AAAAAAAAA2g/nGgU3loYCj8/s1600/Night%2BOwl.jpg

Ah but, IMHE, it takes someone who has seen the Moon (in the correct way) to subsequently then have the likelihood to turn another's Mind inwards to see their own reflection of the Moon eh ?

[Skyhaven]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JAym1JPo1Y8/UARFEUKN4cI/AAAAAAAAA2g/nGgU3loYCj8/s1600/Night%2BOwl.jpg

Ah but, IMHE, it takes someone who has seen the Moon (in the correct way) to subsequently then have the likelihood to turn another's Mind inwards to see their own reflection of the Moon eh ?

Yes, but what is not a better solution to word games, than to poke fun at them, not ignoring them, but still being open to them, moving a long with them in their true nature, and gently trying to lead a student to their true nature by not taking them too serious. In the mean time he leads by example by doing so, this is the real teaching.

[lake]

@lake

... ugghhhh is there nothing left to be original?

This above is self thought. This above is self realization. This above is the reason I am.

Its funny but although your drama may not be original and your physical form may not be original and your emotions may not be original and the point of being may not be original .... there is that which you are.
Your perception of your emotions within this condition of limited constrained awareness ....... is completely new and original to the whole of being!
You are the first to "feel" as you do, there was none before you.

So .... lets look at original?

a thought I had today and yes I check all thoughts but I can miss some! (it does ask though what is checking my supposed thoughts?)

I think this may start to answer that!

I asked "what is a soul?"

Got nothing ....... but looked at the shadow of my hand?
It was blue? Thought "well **** that's strange?"

Then moved my hand and found that there was another shadow which was yellow????

Now, yes, different lighting creates different shadows! Well NO ONE ever told me that!
How could kids ever be afraid of the dark if they had been told that the darkness was MADE FROM LIGHT?

I have posted that I consider us to be from the darkness, the void, the abyss, the no thing.
And now I find that our shadows ARE OF LIGHT IN DARKNESS!

Heres a image, its crap but hey:
The shadow on the left if you were to stand here is a very bright yellow and the one on the right is a very bright blue!

http://www.lake.uno/hand.jpg


This is my hand showing 2 shadows neither which are dark but when overlapped become dark.

So what are my thoughts on this .... do I run to my gurus, my idols, my safety, my government, my religion?
NO.

I attempt to link my thoughts and research on my OWN.

I now have a "shadow" which can be separated into different colours which are frequency’s.
Remember that this "shadow" has ALWAYS been attached to my physical form!
In most of this being "it" has been attached to my feet ....... or more correctly, to MY SOLE.

So then we look at the written and spoken, sole sol soul.

This shadow of LIGHT is always connected to my physical form .... so my soul is my shadow?

I not saying it is! (maybe its just an antenna?)
I am stating that this is self thought and that my perception of my physical form thus can change with my single considerations!
When my perception changes ....... so does the supposed reality around my thought form!

On a side note: Do you know how ****ing scary this is?
I create the reality around me, and I mean literally.
Every thought I have to weigh as to moral standing, defined by .... what....... for ****s sake not me!
Sorry.

Should probably delete that bit .... but no it needs to stay.
Yes I have had a couple of beers, I went to the local pub and played pool, whats the term, with zombies!
It was nice.

But Sam, you are it. Your being here defines here and I just realized that I'm not afraid to be alone :clapping:
Anyway I will shut up :facepalm: