The saga of Obama's birth certificate

[Bill Ryan]

.
Verbatim from http://beforeitsnews.com/religion/2015/11/vnn-exclusive-report-obamas-real-birth-certificate-2498732.html

(Note: it's a little unclear to me exactly who is writing what, but the essence of the information presented is easy to understand. The 6 photos below have been previously published, nearly 5 years ago, and have been controversial.)

~~~~

VNN (Vortex Network News (http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://VortexNetworkNews.com)) was approached by a whistleblower that had the REAL birth documents of President Barack Hussein Obama II:

Obama’s legal name is Barak Hussein Soetero (adopted by Stanley’s 2nd husband, an Indonesian Muslim man). Obama’s birth father, Barack Hussein Obama Sr was also a Muslim. Under Islam, a child is ALWAYS the religion of the father. Under Judaism, a child is a Jew through the mother, regardless of whether they convert later or not. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. Same with Islam. Even though Obama may state he is ‘Christian’, under the rules of Islam, he is Muslim and will always be Muslim because he was born into a Muslim family.

A British history buff was asked if he could find out who the colonial registrar was for Mombasa in 1961. After only a few minutes of research, he called back and said “Sir Edward F. Lavender Note the same name near the bottom of the photo above.

Source(s): Kenya Dominion Record 4667 Australian library.

” And here is a close-up of the bottom of the document where you can read “Coast Providence of Kenya “ and the Official signature of the Deputy Registrar….. The above document is a “Certified Copy of Registration of Birth”, but below is a copy of the actual Certificate of Birth…

The real-deal legal kind of certificate. The Mombasa Registrar of Births has testified that Obama’s birth certificate from Coast Province General Hospital in Mombasa is genuine. This copy was obtained by Lucas Smith through the help of a Kenyan Colonel who recently got it Directly from the Coast General Hospital in Mombasa , Kenya ..

Here it is ;;;….. Note the footprint!! The local Muslim Imam in Mombasa named Barack with his Muslim middle name Hussein so his official name on this certificate is Barack Hussein Obama II.

The grandmother of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Reveals the story of his birth in Mombasa , Kenya , a seaport, after his mother suffered labor pains while swimming at ocean beach in Mombasa ….

“On August 4, 1961 Obama’s mother, father and grandmother were attending a Muslim festival in Mombasa , Kenya .. Mother had been refused entry to airplanes due to her nine month pregnancy. It was a hot August day at the festival so the Obama s went to the beach to Cool off. While swimming in the ocean his mother experienced labor pains so was rushed to the Coast Provincial General Hospital , Mombasa , Kenya where Obama was born a few hours later at 7:21 PM on August 4, 1961(what a sad day for the USA !). Four days later his mother flew to Hawaii and registered his birth in Honolulu as a certificate of live birth which omitted the place and hospital of birth.”

Letter from Kitau in Mombasa, Kenya …….





“I happen to be Kenyan. I was born 1 month before Obama at Mombasa medical center. I am a teacher here at the MM Shaw Primary School in Kenya . I compared my birth certificate to the one that has been put out by Taitz and mine is exactly the same. I even have the same registrar and format.
The type is identical. I am by nature a skeptical person. I teach science here and challenge most things that cannot be proven.

So I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic. There is even a plaque with Registrar Lavenders name on it as he was a Brit and was in charge of the Registrar office from 1959 until January of 1964.

The reason the date on the certificate says republic of Kenya is that we were a republic when the “copy” of the original was ordered. I stress the word “copy”. My copy also has republic of Kenya .

So what you say is true about Kenya not being a republic at the time of Obama’s birth, however it was a republic when the copy was ordered. The birth certificate is genuine. I assure you it will be authenticated by a forensic auditor.

We are very proud Obama was born here. We have a shrine for him and there are many people who remember his birth here as he had a white mother. They are being interviewed now by one of your media outlets.

Fortunately they even have pictures of his parents with him immediately after his birth at the Mombasa hospital with the hospital in the back ground. It will be a proud day for us when it is proven that he was born here and a Kenyan became the most powerful man in the world.

I encourage anyone to come here and visit. I will be happy to take you and show you the pictures at the hospital myself as well as my documents and many others that are identical to what Taitz posted. God Bless. Kitau”

So, how much more proof do we need ? Well , Here it is…{SJC} Lolo Soetoro, Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro, baby Maya Soetoro, and 9 year old Barry Soetoro. This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia , shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro.

Name: Barry Soetoro Religion: Islam Nationality: Indonesian How did this little INDONESIAN Muslim child – Barry Soetoro, ( A.K.A. Barack Obama ) get around the issue of nationality to become President of the United States of America ?

PART 2 : In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College ….

The transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia while an undergraduate at the school. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California .

The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify for this scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship.

This document provides the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking – that he is NOT a natural-born citizen of the United States - necessary to be President of these United States !! Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya, here we see that there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship. !!. Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending.

This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records !!. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still on-going but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. attorney general, Eric Holder. And Mr. Holder has refused comment on this matter !!

It is interesting to note the FBI, CIA and NSA all know about these documents, and are choosing to do nothing on the basis that it may cause a national security threat.

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/110312/images/ObamaDoc1.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/110312/images/ObamaDoc2.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/110312/images/ObamaDoc3.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/110312/images/ObamaDoc4.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/110312/images/ObamaDoc5.jpg

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/110312/images/ObamaDoc6.jpg

[observer]

Here's just one of many videos I could find on YouTube. This one's FROM NEARLY THREE YEARS AGO.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh37rWmUL9Q

This birth certificate issue is old news. Nothing has been done. Nothing will be done. The Global Authority is in total control.

I wrote to my U.S. Congressman over two years ago, asking he look into it. I never heard back from him. No big surprise. My Congressman is Frank LoBiondo. He's on the United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence - go figure.

[Sophocles]

Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis: President Barack Obama (funny):

UnW3xkHxIEQ


Zach (2.24): Where are you planning on building your presidential library? Hawaii or your home country of Kenya? Because, I mean both places seem like they would be...

Obama: Zach, that`s a ridiculous question.

Zach: Well, you know, I mean, not to bring up the birth certificate thing, which you never did not really produce...

Obama: Where`s your birth certificate? Why don`t you show it to us right now?

[Tangri]

I have only one objection to the first post

Religion discussion is irrelevant to the subject person's legality. American constitution does not allow its foreign country born citizens become a president of United of America. It is not mentioned to the skin color or religious background of candidate. Put it(religion definition of a person) in a legitimate argument is irrelevant.

[Kryztian]

When this post originally appeared the title did not contain the words "but may also be a hoax." I wrote the comments below assuming that these documents were being introduced as new and we were being urged to act on the info as such.

If any one had posted this, other than Bill Ryan, I would have probably yawned, cursed the person that posted, and then felt a little sorry for them and said a prayer that they would wise up soon.

In addition to the above documents that Bill has posted, we also have a birth certificate on the whitehouse.gov site (https://whitehouse.gov1.info/blog/blog_post/blog-birth-certificate.html), AND we also have a printed announcement of Obama's birth in the Honolulu Advertiser and in the Honolulu Star Bulletin.

The fact is, of the documents I've referred to documenting Obama's Hawaiian birth and the documents that Bill has referred to documenting an African one, at least half of them are forged and quite possibly ALL OF THEM ARE PHONEY.

The legitimacy of Obama's birth here in the U.S.A. is for most people, not a matter a factual evidence, it is a matter of belief. About a third of Americans, mostly conservative, have at some point absolutely believed he was not born in the U.S.A., only because it upheld a deep seated feeling of his illegitimacy, either because of his skin color or his perceived "liberalism". Another third of Americans would and could never believe that Obama, their Messiah, was born outside of the USA no matter what evidence was shown to them. For a small minority of us Americans, the issue is about proof and evidence and further inquiry.

Of course, all the evidence is so tampered with, objective inquiry may now be impossible. As long as sinister people walk the halls of the CIA and other places of power and secrecy, we will never know. I can envision scenarios where they would manufacture either story (either the Kenyan birth or the Hawaiian one) just to create divisiveness, just to focus our attention on this issue, just to take our eyes off what really matters to them.

There are so many deep mysteries in the world and we have done such a good job of bringing light to them here on the Avalon Forum and I hope we will continue to do so. However, until there is some new compelling evidence that comes to light, I just can't care about Obama's birth right now.

[turiya]

Doesn't really matter, imo. The United States is a de facto corporation. And Obama is the present CEO of that corporation. Forget what the U.S. Constitution says about the qualifications for President. Because its a corporation & the 'rule of law' doesn't apply. Corporations can have whomever they want to be their CEO, from whatever nationality. Its all a ruse... theater... a facade! People got a long way to go to wake up to what is really going on.

That's what all these clowns are debating about -- who will be the next CEO of the Corporation of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

[Karpos]

This is very old.

http://rense.com/general92/birthcert.htm

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/kenyacert.asp

Did someone hack Bill's account?

[Rocky_Shorz]

At first glance the forgery looks good,look at the attending doctors signature, it doesn't match the name and was signed a day later...

I went to vortex to see how old the report was and laughed

One of their recommended sources for truth is Corsi... :pound:

Hey Bill, it's Friday the 13th, not April Fool's day...

"
Jerome Corsi's "The Obama Nation" is a mishmash of unsupported conjecture, half-truths, logical fallacies and outright falsehoods... http:// http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/corsis-dull-hatchet/ (http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/corsis-dull-hatchet/)

[Matt P]

I have only one objection to the first post

Religion discussion is irrelevant to the subject person's legality. American constitution does not allow its foreign country born citizens become a president of United of America. It is not mentioned to the skin color or religious background of candidate. Put it(religion definition of a person) in a legitimate argument is irrelevant.

It IS relevant simply for the fact that the president of the united states has stated many times publicly that he is a christian. If he's lying...if any president would so coldly lie about such things, I think people have a right to know.

And to Kryztian...you just don't care that a man might be serving in the highest office in America who, by law, might not have been qualified to even run, much less be allowed to win?? Really? If this is true, it would make everything he's done in office illegal. So, no big deal here, huh?

Turiya: you nailed it! But I think getting to the truth of this birth certificate craziness might help shed more light on the truth of your wonderful statement. I have seen many similar comments to yours when this debate comes up.

Matt

[sdv]

Obama’s legal name is Barak Hussein Soetero (adopted by Stanley’s 2nd husband, an Indonesian Muslim man). Obama’s birth father, Barack Hussein Obama Sr was also a Muslim. Under Islam, a child is ALWAYS the religion of the father. Under Judaism, a child is a Jew through the mother, regardless of whether they convert later or not. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. Same with Islam. Even though Obama may state he is ‘Christian’, under the rules of Islam, he is Muslim and will always be Muslim because he was born into a Muslim family.

I'm not sure where this information comes from, but it is not correct.

According to Islamic beliefs, we are ALL born Muslims (i.e. it is the one true belief). You are a practising Muslim (if you have been practising another religion, it is believed that you revert rather than convert) if you consciously and freely 'submit' to Allah and accept him in your heart and mind (some Imams say you must do so publicly and others say it can be done in private).

Culturally, in Islam, it is customary for a child to be raised according to the father's religion (it is a patriarchal culture). However, there is no such thing as automatically following the religion (i.e. being a practising Muslim) because your parents are or father is Muslim.

So according to Islamic belief, Obama is Mulsim because we all are, but he is not a Muslim because he was not raised by his father to follow the 'one true religion' and he has publicly chosen to be Christian.

:coffee:

[Atlas]

Recently Surfaced Obama Speech From 1995

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-05/26/12/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-8925-1432656281-21.png

Obama said that “much of my life was spent trying to reconcile the terms of my birth.”

w5JlqDnoqlo

My father was a black African and my mother was a white American. And much of my life was spent trying to reconcile the terms of my birth — that divided heritage — with the realities of race and nationality, tribal identities, that exist not just in this country but also overseas. So that this book is not so much a memoir, I think, as sort of a journey of discovery for me. Some sense of trying to make sense of my family. And family’s always a complicated thing, but it was a little bit more complicated for me. And part of that process of me understanding my family ends up understanding the larger forces that shaped my family.
Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/watch-this-rare-recently-surfaced-speech-old-obama-speech-fr#.ia26oJ5LzJ

[Bill Ryan]

This is very old.

http://rense.com/general92/birthcert.htm

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/kenyacert.asp

Did someone hack Bill's account?

(laughing :bigsmile: ) Wow! Yes, that is old.

(I changed the thread title...! :) )

[Kryztian]

And to Kryztian...you just don't care that a man might be serving in the highest office in America who, by law, might not have been qualified to even run, much less be allowed to win?? Really? If this is true, it would make everything he's done in office illegal. So, no big deal here, huh?


What I care about is that there are ways to prove this man has done illegal things AND WE CAN PROVE THEM without relying on ambiguous mysterious documents. This is the first president to sign off on having an American citizen murdered (Anwar al-Awlaki) without going to trial. He signed the 2011 NDAA bill after saying he wouldn't because it allowed Americans to be "detained indefinitely" (i.e. put in prison forever), even though his White House fought to have this amendment put in bill. His Justice Department has refused to prosecute the criminal bankers of Wall Street, or James Clapper who perjured himself before congress about the NSA's illegal activities but acts vigorously to go after Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, John Kiriakou and others who merely want let Americans know the truth of what their "democratic" government is up to.

There is clearly plenty of impeccable unquestionable information that is out there right in the public domain that demonstrate this man should be impeached and sent to prison and we could do it, but unfortunately, we are so distracted by these pieces of paper that anyone could have forged on their home computer, by these stories that any CIA operative could have arranged for a few persons in Kenya to testify to.

[Kryztian]

(I changed the thread title...! :) )

Thank you for adding "but may also be a hoax" to the title. I might have responded differently above if that were in the original title.

[Sunny-side-up]

Just adding a few items about this guy Obama, he is a very shady character indeed:

We all know that the presidency for the USA is a pre-chosen, behind the public view/done deal, and is nearly always a 'Blood-Lined' candidate!
Which I believe I have read that Obama is.

So just why was he put in?
Dose he fore-fill some Prophesied agenda and so is part of their ritual path? (Which I believe has also been posted here in Avalon)
Wasn't his real father ( the one not his official father, who actually looks very much like Obama!) a member of some cult? (also posted in Avalon before).
Where dose/would a possible cult fit in with the blood-lined agenda, how is said cult connected to the blood-lined agenda?

For him to be where he is now, he must have great worth to the PTB, those who push and pull the strings in the USA!

Just a few thoughts as raised by the OP, thx Bill.

[Bill Ryan]

Thank you for adding "but may also be a hoax" to the title.

Yes. :thumbsup: The 6 photos that accompanied the new piece were clearly previously published (I edited my post #1 to add that fact). I'd be very interested to read any analysis of the information presented in the text.

[sirdipswitch]

I can't believe this thread is even here. Haven't any of you ever read the constitution??? This is the biggest SNOW JOB !Any! Government has ever pulled on it's people!!! And y'all just keep right-on buyin it!!!

At no time... should his birth certificate been in question. It was and is his Father the should have been. Because at NO time in his life, had his Father, (EVER) been a U.S.Citizen.


READ YOUR CONSTITUTION!!!!!!

Don't just keep re-hashing the same old argument. It is irrelevent!!!

AND!!!??? Why didn't Congress investigate this "Before"he became POTUS!!!????????

IT IS ACT OF TREASON... TO ALLOW HIM TO BE POTUS!!!!!

BOTH PARENTS!!! Must be citizens, for the child to be eligible to be POTUS. Yep

And Barry's daddy--- "wasn't"!!!...nope.never was.!

[observer]

I object, sirdip. ^^^^

The eligibility clause of the U.S. Constitution (Article II, Section 1, Clause 5) does not mention "both parents". It only refers to a "natural born citizen".


from Wikipedia - "Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:
Clause 5 -
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Various opinions have been offered over time regarding the precise meaning of a "natural born citizen". See more regarding these interpretations, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause).

Bottom line: The Constitution does not mention "both parents". So, the question really reverts-back to, was he really born in Hawaii? Making the OP of this thread most relevant.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Most people that knows his first move in office was pardoning Cheney and Bush for attacking America on 9/11 set the stage for Republicans not being able to touch him for anything.

After finding out the first Republican President Abraham Lincoln erased an amendment that made it illegal for him to hold office, has made me wonder about all of them...

[Knowrainknowrainbows!]

Having attended/participated in a local community group wherein we "examined" the US constitution and discussed/argued interpretations of various key points, the 14th amendment was a prime example:

(The following is from http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html#14)

AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws


I object, sirdip. ^^^^

The eligibility clause of the U.S. Constitution (Article II, Section 1, Clause 5) does not mention "both parents". It only refers to a "natural born citizen".


from Wikipedia - "Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:
Clause 5 -
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Various opinions have been offered over time regarding the precise meaning of a "natural born citizen". See more regarding these interpretations, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause).

Bottom line: The Constitution does not mention "both parents". So, the question really reverts-back to, was he really born in Hawaii? Making the OP of this thread most relevant.

Of great interest to my group was the clause, " and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Why was there a NEED to insert those words?

To further confound matters, ... consider the term "subject" ... If not subject to the jurisdiction then not a "citizen"? ... Can one be born or naturalized without being/becoming a "subject" or "citizen"?
What is meant by ... "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? The US?
Our group felt that a baby born to parents (wherein neither were US citizens) was subject to the jurisdiction of the parent's foreign country, just as were the parents.

At the time written being a subject implied being under the dominion of a ruler such as a king ... or "giving allegiance" to another ...

My grandfather immigrated in the early 1900's. I have a copy of his immigration paper ... he had to swear allegiance to the US of A and denounce the emperor.

I don't mean to muddy the waters ... I only offer additional perspective as I feel we have been "bamboozled" with "legaleze" and various interpretations/misinterpretations ...

We may be "subjects" afterall ... Whew! The plot thickens ... Now children will no longer learn cursive handwriting in school - It will be as a foreign language so they will not be able to read original documents/transcripts. They will depend upon others interpretation ... plus changes/alterations can easily be made to digital copies. :-(

Who said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"? Truth!!!
:yes4:

[Lifebringer]

Well if that's the case, then we have to determine that the whole damn congress and senate is illegal, and probably how he got in/ I mean if legally you wanted to shut up people, and you were a law professor, then you might find Constitutional Amendment 13.2 very handy to gain office. Legally the forefather forbid lawyers from serving. Called "no title" amendment. Before they bankers took the country after the civil war, they hid the original Constitution and printed a lot without this part, but 17 states have it on record when there were only 27 at the time of the "hiding."

Google missing 13th amendment and you'll see Barack may have handed them all a blackmail slip, and that might be what made them turn so viciously against him as they couldn't say a word, or it would all come out in court.

Check mate.:ROFL: Anything's possible. Out hoodwink the hoodwinkers?:-)

[sirdipswitch]

At the time it was written, they inserted the World definition of Natural Born, wich stated Both Parents be citizens.

13 Amendment replaced with fedralresearve act, which allowed for a Centralized Banking system, under the control off The Federal Reserve Bank.

And ALL of these shenanigans are the very reason our For father's. Didn't want LAWERS holding public office. Cuz they screw everything up with many words that take "YEARS",,, to figure out. And allows for people like Barry, to become ...POTUS.

And...keeps Y'all talkin fer YEARS tryin to figure out what They... did to ya.ccccc

[sdv]

“On August 4, 1961 Obama’s mother, father and grandmother were attending a Muslim festival in Mombasa , Kenya .. Mother had been refused entry to airplanes due to her nine month pregnancy. It was a hot August day at the festival so the Obama s went to the beach to Cool off. While swimming in the ocean his mother experienced labor pains so was rushed to the Coast Provincial General Hospital , Mombasa , Kenya where Obama was born a few hours later at 7:21 PM on August 4, 1961(what a sad day for the USA !). Four days later his mother flew to Hawaii and registered his birth in Honolulu as a certificate of live birth which omitted the place and hospital of birth.”

There was no Muslim festival being celebrated 4 August 1961. It was a Friday, which is the day that Muslim men go to the mosque to pray in the afternoon. He was born in the second month of the Islamic calendar (Safar), and there is no festival related to it. So, this story is a bit odd.

Also, the dates given on both certificates use American notation (month/day/year) and not what would have been used in Kenya in 1961 (day/month//year). This is also very odd.

I think this was a hoax by someone called Lucas Smith and was debunked in 2009.

[ghostrider]

It has always bothered me that Obama came out of nowhere and rose to sit in the white house ... I think he is really a foreigner, sold to us as an American citizen...

[abmqa]

Some have said that Frank Marshall Davis is Obama's real father..some interesting videos on youtube...

One question that I rarely seen addressed is ...even if he was born in another country ...if one of his parents is a US citizen i.e. his mother...doesn't that make him a US citizen also?

[Rocky_Shorz]

Having attended/participated in a local community group wherein we "examined" the US constitution and discussed/argued interpretations of various key points, the 14th amendment was a prime example:

(The following is from http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html#14)

AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws


I object, sirdip. ^^^^

The eligibility clause of the U.S. Constitution (Article II, Section 1, Clause 5) does not mention "both parents". It only refers to a "natural born citizen".


from Wikipedia - "Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:
Clause 5 -
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Various opinions have been offered over time regarding the precise meaning of a "natural born citizen". See more regarding these interpretations, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause).

Bottom line: The Constitution does not mention "both parents". So, the question really reverts-back to, was he really born in Hawaii? Making the OP of this thread most relevant.

Of great interest to my group was the clause, " and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Why was there a NEED to insert those words?

To further confound matters, ... consider the term "subject" ... If not subject to the jurisdiction then not a "citizen"? ... Can one be born or naturalized without being/becoming a "subject" or "citizen"?
What is meant by ... "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? The US?
Our group felt that a baby born to parents (wherein neither were US citizens) was subject to the jurisdiction of the parent's foreign country, just as were the parents.

At the time written being a subject implied being under the dominion of a ruler such as a king ... or "giving allegiance" to another ...

My grandfather immigrated in the early 1900's. I have a copy of his immigration paper ... he had to swear allegiance to the US of A and denounce the emperor.

I don't mean to muddy the waters ... I only offer additional perspective as I feel we have been "bamboozled" with "legaleze" and various interpretations/misinterpretations ...

We may be "subjects" afterall ... Whew! The plot thickens ... Now children will no longer learn cursive handwriting in school - It will be as a foreign language so they will not be able to read original documents/transcripts. They will depend upon others interpretation ... plus changes/alterations can easily be made to digital copies. :-(

Who said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"? Truth!!!
:yes4:

The original 13th amendment took citizenship rights away from layers and royal titles.

The 13th was erased and the 14th guaranteed their right even if they swore to another country before US Concerns

[Bayareamom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alVzyfptF80

For any of you at all interested, this conference is VERY informative re the investigation into the issue with the birth certificate. A real eye opener...

[observer]

Here's just one of many videos I could find on YouTube. This one's FROM NEARLY THREE YEARS AGO.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh37rWmUL9Q

This birth certificate issue is old news. Nothing has been done. Nothing will be done. The Global Authority is in total control.

I wrote to my U.S. Congressman over two years ago, asking he look into it. I never heard back from him. No big surprise. My Congressman is Frank LoBiondo. He's on the United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence - go figure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alVzyfptF80

For any of you at all interested, this conference is VERY informative re the investigation into the issue with the birth certificate. A real eye opener...

It was for this trail of evidence, I made my comment #2 (above). What has happened to Sheriff Joe Arpaio's very through investigation?

Conclusion: If the Hawaii Document is a fraud, then the Kenyan information has probative value....

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b509/POV_At_Exit_0/Kenya%20Evidence_zpsasvseril.jpg (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/POV_At_Exit_0/media/Kenya%20Evidence_zpsasvseril.jpg.html)

[sirdipswitch]

I agree with Gramma, who said She witnessed his birth in Kenya. And they keep tryin to shut her up.

If all his certificates have been frauds... then so is He. Simple.

AND!!!!!!! WHY???? IS HE... POTUS???? !!STILL?

Cuz THEY don't care what We think, do, or say!

Business as usual, any way, THEY wanna do it,,, yep.

[observer]

Totally agreed, sirdip. Nothing the Masses do-or-say will make any difference, from now until ground-zero.

[Constance]

It is irrelevent!!!



Obama or anybody else being president is entirely irrelevant to humanity if it doesn't truly empower us as a whole.

[sirdipswitch]

Yep! Agreed, "breal", POTUS is just a Puppet, for the Masters behind the screen, that pull his strings.

[Arcturian108]

I have a fairly personal interest in this controversy, as I attended the University of Hawaii's East-West Center as a grantee at the same time that Obama's mother was there. Although I don't recall meeting her. I was living on the campus studying Asian history with a full scholarship from the U.S. State Department. I attended that program from 1965 to 1968, beginning when Obama was four years old.

I find the following things strange surrounding Obama's birth and early upbringing:

1. It is strange that Obama's mother and father met in a University of Hawaii Russian language class. Nobody studying in Hawaii would have thought to study Russian. It was a place to learn Chinese, Japanese, and other Asian languages. If however, one was employed by the C.I.A., or the State Department, then Russian might have been mandatory.
2, Wayne Madsen, the independent journalist and former U.S. Navy intelligence officer, has found a photo showing Obama's maternal grandfather greeting Obama Sr. at the Honolulu Airport when he first arrived as a student in Hawaii. This only makes sense if Mr. Dunham continued to have a C.I.A. connection in the 1960s, since he worked for the O.S.S. following WWII. Obama Sr. was the first African student to be given a scholarship to attend the University of Hawaii. Who gave him that scholarship?? It was still the cold war era, and the U.S. was battling Russia for control of the recently liberated African colonies. I surmise that the C.I.A. was funding such scholarships.
3. Stanley Ann Dunham, Pres. Obama's mother became an anthropologist specializing in Indonesian culture. That is not strange, but the timing of her arrival in Indonesia is strange. In 1966 about a million Chinese-Indonesians had been murdered as part of a C.I.A. plot to overthrow Sukarno. So when does Stanley take her young son to Indonesia - the following October (1967). I suspect that Ms. Dunham's move to Indonesia was at the behest of the C.I.A. and that her marriage to an Indonesian was a cover for that move.

I have more thoughts on this subject, but it would be very easy for the C.I.A. to forge all kinds of certificates, and make sure from the day that Obama Junior was born that there were recordings of a U.S. birth in the Honolulu newspapers, if that is what the Dunham family wanted.

[observer]

I have also heard innuendo suggesting there was an intelligence community connection regarding Obama Sr. and Ms. Dunham. It's been quite some time, so I wouldn't be able to put my finger on the source. The speculation I recall alluded to a long-term-plan to make the son of that union a future president. It was suggested Barry was a long-term intelligence community project.

[observer]

A good friend did some digging and came-up with this article which, corroborates the three-generation-long, Barak Obama/CIA connection. Thank you heyokah.

Read this Alfred Lambremont Webre article which identifies and documents Obama as an "intelligence community asset":

"Hidden story behind Obama CIA ties" - http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2012/01/hidden-story-behind-jesse-ventura-piers-morgans-cnn-clash-over-obama-cia-ties.html

[Arcturian108]

I thank Observer for his post, and I followed the link he gave. The article there depends heavily on Wayne Madsen's assessment of the three-generational ties of Obama's family to the C.I.A. But this is the part that I found most intriguing:


Barack Obama was pre-identified in time as U.S. president by secret DARPA time travel program

The notion that President Obama is a lifelong CIA asset is supported by the revelations of crusading lawyer Andrew D. Basiago about a heretofore unknown “quantum access” capability within the US intelligence community provided by time travel technology.

Mr. Basiago has been identified as a “planetary-level whistleblower” by the Web Bot for his account of a secret time-space program, Project Pegasus, launched by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s.

According to Mr. Basiago, by 1970, Project Pegasus was teleporting individuals between locations in time-space via “teleporters” based on the later works of Nikola Tesla and also propagating images of past and future events via “chronovisors” first developed by the Vatican scientists Pellegrino Ernetti and Pier Maria Gemelli.

These have been used to provide the U.S. president, intelligence community and military with better information about past and future events by which to engage in better contingency planning for future events.

In numerous TV and radio interviews, Mr. Basiago has described how, among other intelligence findings, Project Pegasus was identifying future American presidents and then approaching them and apprising them of their destinies as President.

He has described how as a child serving in Project Pegasus in the early 1970’s, he was present at lunches held at La Hacienda restaurant in Old Town Albuquerque, NM that were attended by project principals and future American presidents, including George Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush, shortly after they were informed that Project Pegasus had found via quantum access that they would one day serve as President.

In appearances on talk radio’s Coast to Coast AM with George Noory in 2009 and 2010, Mr. Basiago described at length a 1982 meeting with Barack Obama in Los Angeles in which Mr. Obama also revealed his awareness that he had been briefed on the fact that the US government had detected that he was destined to reach the White House.

This makes perfect sense watching the demeanor of various current candidates for president of the United States. Of everybody on the televised debate podiums, Hillary Clinton is the most composed and reassured of her place as a future White House occupant. Could this be because the C.I.A. used its time-travel technology again to give her advance notice, and let her relax while she waits it out???

[bettye198]

I believe I remember Swerdlow saying Obama was born in a Finland underground bunker and was groomed for 23 years and then let out.

[observer]

Alex Jones' modus operandi doesn't resonate with many of the members on this website. I try to listen to everything I discover in the course of my investigation, because even the most abrasive individual can provide information contributing to the trail-of-evidence.

So it is, with this latest Alex Jones video on the true story of our President's birth history:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47i8VsNYgo

It behooves anyone interested in getting to the bottom of this birth-certificate-mystery to listen to what Alex and Joel Gilbert have to say about the real historic record.

The part about how his birth certificate was purposely made an issue to distract from the true agenda, really makes sense.

[observer]

Not to pull this thread too far off-track, but here's a Jeff Rense/Jay Weildner video that further validates Joel Gilbert's assertions regarding the agenda behind the Birth-Certificate-Mystery.

Listen from the beginning, through to the 12 minute mark, but pay particular attention to what is said after 10 minutes-in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO3mtthlKFw

[onawah]

Obama’s Fake Birth Certificate Copy To Be Exposed By Arizona Crime Investigators
Posted on November 20, 2016 by State of the Nation
http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=57269

gXwbcDNP30M


Let's pray the whistleblower doesn't die suddenly under mysterious circumstances!

PNN Radio Interviews Cold Case Posse Lead Investigator Mike Zullo:
“BEFORE JANUARY, WE’RE GOING TO REVEAL WHAT WE HAVE”

by Sharon Rondea
http://stateofthenation2012.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/image002.png

Nov. 10, 2016) — On Thursday afternoon, Maricopa County, AZ Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo was a guest on the PNN Radio Network hosted by Carl Gallups. The broadcast was scheduled for 4:00 p.m. but was delayed due to some technical difficulties.

Zullo has led a five-year criminal investigation into the long-form birth certificate image posted on the White House website purported to be a scan of a certified copy of Obama’s original birth record. In 2012, Zullo and Maricopa County Sheriff Joseph Arpaio gave two press conferences during which they disclosed that investigators had found the birth certificate image and Obama’s Selective Service registration form to be fraudulent.

The first topic of the broadcast was the defeat of Arpaio in his bid for a seventh term on Tuesday.

Gallups, who was sworn in as a “special deputy” to Arpaio in March, said that he spoke with Arpaio by phone earlier on Thursday. Zullo said that Arpaio was “hanging in there” but that there was a “sadness” from his election defeat. “I’m very disappointed that he didn’t win,” Zullo said. He said that he believes that the Obama regime imposed “unconstitutional regulations” on Arpaio, referring to a federal judge’s ruling that Arpaio had disobeyed his order to cease immigration patrols in a nine-year-old civil rights lawsuit which led to a criminal contempt charge brought by the U.S. Justice Department.

The Obama DOJ has previously investigated Arpaio for possible obstruction of justice and abuse of power but ultimately found no evidence to conclude that a crime had been committed. A DOJ civil-rights lawsuit filed against the MCSO was settled out of court.

Zullo said that Arpaio is being defended against the criminal contempt charge by an experienced Washington, DC law firm and that he believes the case will ultimately go to the U.S. Supreme Court after the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Zullo additionally revealed that during the campaign, Arpaio was under a gag order not to discuss the civil case which was presided over by U.S. District Court Judge G. Murray Snow. The criminal charge was announced by the DOJ on the same day on which early voting began in Arizona.

“Millions of dollars were poured into his opponent’s campaign by George Soros,” Gallups said. Democrat Paul Penzone, although reportedly short on campaign funds prior to Soros’s involvement, won by approximately 11 points.

Gallups posited that Arpaio’s position would be worse if Hillary Clinton had won the presidential election on Tuesday.

“Joe Arpaio’s story is not over,” Gallups said, speculating that Arpaio would prevail on the criminal charge. If that were not to occur, “I can’t imagine that Donald Trump won’t pardon him,” Gallups speculated. “He’s not going to prison over this.”

Zullo pointed out that there is a higher standard of proof required in a criminal case than in a civil case. “There is something terribly wrong with the way this whole thing has unfolded,” Zullo contended, referring to hearings which took place last year which “blew up” an investigation Arpaio was conducting through a confidential informant, Dennis Montgomery. Montgomery later became a “material witness” in an undisclosed criminal matter and was given two immunity agreements by the FBI.

Zullo said that Arpaio’s appellate attorneys have identified dozens of examples of “ex parte communications” on the part of Snow and others which they will ask to argue in court in January.

Just before the 20-minute mark of the interview, Gallups changed the subject to the meeting Trump and Obama had at 11:00 a.m. Thursday as it was presented by The Wall Street Journal, which reportedly mockingly invoked Trump’s questioning of Obama’s birth certificate beginning in 2011. “This ‘birth certificate’ thing is still huge,” Gallups commented.

The media, including The Wall Street Journal, were particularly hostile to Trump during the campaign, often ridiculing Trump’s public questioning of Obama’s eligibility and the White House’s failure to release Obama’s detailed birth record.

One Wall Street Journal reporter was found in emails released by WikiLeaks to have been working with the DNC. The Clinton campaign, too, repeatedly criticized Trump for suggesting that the nation’s “first black president” was born in another country or was somehow ineligible to hold the office of the presidency.

Gallups contended that “they actually went there in the Wall Street Journal today,” invoking the publication’s derisiveness in referring to Trump’s questioning of Obama’s eligibility. According to Gallups, The Journal implied that Trump was deferential to Obama during their meeting.

At 21:46, Zullo said, “They are so deathly afraid of this,” meaning the media of the birth certificate investigation. Gallups then speculated that many Americans may have voted for Trump with the knowledge that if elected, he might pursue the truth about the image posted at whitehouse.gov which the posse found to be a “computer-generated forgery” more than four years ago.

“Now it is going to come out forever, very soon,” Gallups contended, with which Zullo concurred. “We have the true expert analysis of it…and these people know what they’re doing. It’s going to be shown. People don’t have any idea of what the last five years have been like…it’s been a rough road,” Zullo said.

Zullo repeated his claim from 2013 wherein he said that the White House posted the long-form image “with the intent to deceive” the voting public.

Gallups challenged any governor to come forward and claim that “Obama was born in my state.” “That governor does not exist,” he said.

Zullo said that public servants, including former Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie, have lied to perpetuate a false life narrative for Obama. He told Gallups that the investigation is “almost done.”

Gallups stressed that there is no government agency which was willing to launch its own investigation into the posse’s findings regarding the long-form birth certificate image. Zullo confirmed that neither the media nor Congress responded to the information divulged in the two 2012 press conferences. “Nobody would look at it,” he said. “The reason this is continuing…is because the way this is unfolding and the evidence that’s before us, no investigator worth his salt could close the book on this because of the way people have conducted themselves and tried to conceal their parts in this.”

At 36:24, Zullo invoked the work of Project Veritas, which showed collusion among Democrat political action committees, the DNC and Clinton herself to disrupt Trump rallies and even incite violence. Zullo also mentioned WikiLeaks, whose document releases in recent weeks showed DNC/media collusion, and asked if it is beyond belief that the same people would stop at creating a fraudulent document to install its candidate of choice in the presidency.

At 38:50, Zullo divulged that MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked him for an interview to take place directly after the first press conference on March 1, 2012, but that when Matthews saw the evidence presented, he canceled it. Fox News reportedly followed suit.

Zullo decried the media, which he said is attempting to change people’s perceptions of “reality” by putting forth a false narrative.

At 42:06, Gallups provided a summary of the Cold Case Posse’s investigation which began in September 2011. “That birth certificate is a fraudulent fabrication,” he said. He continued, “You’re saying…that you guys are getting ready to bring it forth. We’ve got the alternative media, which has become more powerful than the mainstream. Now it’s getting ready to be brought forward…and we’ll see what a Trump Congress and a Trump presidency and a Trump DOJ and a Trump FBI does with it.”

“I can’t speak for what the president-elect is going to do,” Zullo said, adding that the posse’s work “continued on secretly” in the midst of systemic government corruption and obstruction.

“This is going to stand on the merits of the work. This work is not the work that was done before; it’s different,” Zullo said, apparently referring to new information not yet released publicly. “This is not a joke…this is the real deal.” He said that “forensic digital science” has been utilized in examining the birth certificate image by individuals who “train law enforcement.” “They’ve been phenomenal with us,” Zullo said.

Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo told host Carl Gallups on Thursday that considerable forensic analyses have been conducted on the long-form birth certificate image posted at whitehouse.gov more than five years ago which reinforce their conclusions that it is fraudulent

He explained that the posse’s findings are “a federal matter.”

On a different note, Zullo said that he and his family have been threatened as a result of his work on the investigation. “God knows I didn’t want to do any of this. If anything comes of this, perhaps some kind of legislation that permits the legal vetting – law enforcement type of vetting – of presidential candidates and transparency act that forces them to release birth certificates and passport information and documents…” Zullo hypothesized. “We can never have something like this happen again,” he said, referring to the power of modern equipment and technology to produce forgeries.

“We’re in a very perilous time here, and then you have a media that floats the narrative. Stop listening to the narrative; do your own research,” he advised the audience.

Gallups said that the new information the posse has gathered is much more powerful than the conclusions announced from the two press conferences.

Zullo said that his character has been assassinated by the media’s efforts to “protect” the fraudulent birth certificate bearing Obama’s name. “This is just unbelievable,” Gallups responded, acknowledging that his name has also made “international” headlines for his involvement in the investigation.

Gallups indicated that when the results are made public, it will “vindicate” those who persisted in finding the truth.

“Words mean a lot,” Zullo rejoined, stating that certain “tactics” were used in an attempt to silence Zullo, Gallups and anyone else reporting on the fraudulent Obama documents.

Zullo indicated that in light of his loss on Tuesday, Arpaio may be under consideration for a cabinet position in the Trump administration.

At 1:10:30, Zullo divulged that there are “congresspeople,” “former prosecutors” and “former state attorney generals” [sic] who are “apprised” of what the posse has been investigating.

Gallups hypothesized that The Wall Street Journal and other media outlets are fearful that the truth about the Obama birth certificate will eventually emerge and praised the “alternative media” for persisting in pursuing the matter.

Zullo said that the investigation has taken its toll on him personally and financially and that there were times when he wanted to stop. He said his wife was completely supportive and encouraged him not to abandon that which he started.

Gallups said that he is familiar with the information which Zullo and Arpaio are preparing to make public.

Toward the end of the more-than-90-minute interview, Gallups pointed out that Trump “got the birth certificate on the White House website” by his public calls for its release more than five years ago and “is now the president,” meaning the president-elect. He reminded his listeners that Arpaio endorsed Trump early on and most likely played a part in Arizona’s electoral votes going to Trump on Tuesday.

Zullo confirmed that “before January, we’re going to reveal what we have.”


ALSO:
Fake Birth Certificate "EXPOSED" By Arizona Crime Investigators
Culture Shock News
v-w578nl9Js
Published on Nov 20, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-w578nl9Js


Nov. 10, 2016) — On Thursday afternoon, Maricopa County, AZ Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo was a guest on the PNN Radio Network hosted by Carl Gallups. The broadcast was scheduled for 4:00 p.m. but was delayed due to some technical difficulties.

Zullo has led a five-year criminal investigation into the long-form birth certificate image posted on the White House website purported to be a scan of a certified copy of Obama’s original birth record. In 2012, Zullo and Maricopa County Sheriff Joseph Arpaio gave two press conferences during which they disclosed that investigators had found the birth certificate image and Obama’s Selective Service registration form to be fraudulent.

First topic of the broadcast was the defeat of Arpaio in his bid for a seventh term Tuesday.

The Obama DOJ has previously investigated Arpaio for possible obstruction of justice and abuse of power but ultimately found no evidence to conclude that a crime had been committed. A DOJ civil-rights lawsuit filed against the MCSO was settled out of court.

Zullo said that Arpaio is being defended against the criminal contempt charge by an experienced Washington, DC law firm and that he believes the case will ultimately go to the U.S. Supreme Court after the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Zullo additionally revealed that during the campaign, Arpaio was under a gag order not to discuss the civil case which was presided over by U.S. District Court Judge G. Murray Snow. The criminal charge was announced by the DOJ on the same day on which early voting began in Arizona.

“Millions of dollars were poured into his opponent’s campaign by George Soros,” Gallups said. Democrat Paul Penzone, although reportedly short on campaign funds prior to Soros’s involvement, won by approximately 11 points.

“Joe Arpaio’s story is not over,” Gallups said, speculating that Arpaio would prevail on the criminal charge. If that were not to occur, “I can’t imagine that Donald Trump won’t pardon him,” Gallups speculated. “He’s not going to prison over this.”

Zullo pointed out that there is a higher standard of proof required in a criminal case than in a civil case. “There is something terribly wrong with the way this whole thing has unfolded,” Zullo contended, referring to hearings which took place last year which “blew up” an investigation Arpaio was conducting through a confidential informant, Dennis Montgomery. Montgomery later became a “material witness” in an undisclosed criminal matter and was given two immunity agreements by the FBI.

Zullo said that Arpaio’s appellate attorneys have identified dozens of examples of “ex parte communications” on the part of Snow and others which they will ask to argue in court in January.

Just before the 20-minute mark of the interview, Gallups changed the subject to the meeting Trump and Obama had at 11:00 a.m. Thursday as it was presented by The Wall Street Journal, which reportedly mockingly invoked Trump’s questioning of Obama’s birth certificate beginning in 2011. “This ‘birth certificate’ thing is still huge,” Gallups commented.

More here: gSpzTkvVFT8

The headline at the youtube site mentioned Wikileaks, but it doesn't appear Wikileaks had anything to do with this. I guess they were just hoping to attract more attention, and it worked, as I probably would not have checked it out, otherwise.

[onawah]

:bump: Bumping this--it looks like there may finally be proof enough, though we won't know until January. You heard it here.
See: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86769-This-may-be-Obama-s-real-birth-certificate--but-may-also-be-a-hoax-&p=1116039&viewfull=1#post1116039

[onawah]

The photographs of the Nesbitts really are convincing.
I recommend watching the first 6 minutes, but there's a rant following that :facepalm:
RVwptjfdWlo

[onawah]

Surprise! (NOT!! :tsk:) Two of those videos have been taken down that were posted here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1116039
but there are some new ones here:
4Q1m487bijU
BLF1iqhqisE

(This looks like very damning evidence :flame: Somebody might want to copy these--unfortunately I don't know how.)

[onawah]

Alex Jones talking with Joel Gilbert re Obama's identity
http://www.infowars.com/watch-alex-jones-show/
(I can't embed the youtube link for some reason. Google blocking infowars?)
Or: To listen, download the little file 'stream.pls' and open it in a video/audio player. The file is here:
http://projectavalon.net/stream.pls

Angela Merkel’s surprising decision to ban the burka in Germany. Documentary filmmaker Joel Gilbert will be in studio to discuss bombshell revelations about Barack Obama that he’s researched since his film Dreams From My Real Father. We also look into the war on “fake-news” and Hillary’s failed attempt at a recount.

[Satori]

Having attended/participated in a local community group wherein we "examined" the US constitution and discussed/argued interpretations of various key points, the 14th amendment was a prime example:

(The following is from http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html#14)

AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws


I object, sirdip. ^^^^

The eligibility clause of the U.S. Constitution (Article II, Section 1, Clause 5) does not mention "both parents". It only refers to a "natural born citizen".


from Wikipedia - "Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:
Clause 5 -
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Various opinions have been offered over time regarding the precise meaning of a "natural born citizen". See more regarding these interpretations, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause).

Bottom line: The Constitution does not mention "both parents". So, the question really reverts-back to, was he really born in Hawaii? Making the OP of this thread most relevant.

Of great interest to my group was the clause, " and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Why was there a NEED to insert those words?

To further confound matters, ... consider the term "subject" ... If not subject to the jurisdiction then not a "citizen"? ... Can one be born or naturalized without being/becoming a "subject" or "citizen"?
What is meant by ... "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"? The US?
Our group felt that a baby born to parents (wherein neither were US citizens) was subject to the jurisdiction of the parent's foreign country, just as were the parents.

At the time written being a subject implied being under the dominion of a ruler such as a king ... or "giving allegiance" to another ...

My grandfather immigrated in the early 1900's. I have a copy of his immigration paper ... he had to swear allegiance to the US of A and denounce the emperor.

I don't mean to muddy the waters ... I only offer additional perspective as I feel we have been "bamboozled" with "legaleze" and various interpretations/misinterpretations ...

We may be "subjects" afterall ... Whew! The plot thickens ... Now children will no longer learn cursive handwriting in school - It will be as a foreign language so they will not be able to read original documents/transcripts. They will depend upon others interpretation ... plus changes/alterations can easily be made to digital copies. :-(

Who said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"? Truth!!!
:yes4:

The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution has a highly intriguing and esoteric history. The people responsible for its promotion and adoption were, and their adherents still are, very intelligent social engineers and political scientists. It fits their long-term collectivist agenda.

One purpose of the 14th Amd was to make all persons "subject to the jurisdiction [of the US]" US citizens first and then secondarily a citizen of the state in which they reside. This was a power grab by the people running the National government, which had acquired even more power during and after the Civil War. Another purpose was to make the national debt, not just the debt incurred during the Civil War, but all national debt free from any challenge. This was another power grab and the prelude to what was to come, made most obvious in 1913 by the passage of the Federal Reserve Act and the claimed ratification of "The Law That Never Was", i.e., the 16th Amend to the US Constituion. The former creating or expanding the fiat-legal tender-funny-money monetary system, and the latter further enslaving US citizens by taxing their labor. The provision of one's blood, sweat and tears in the form of labor in exchange for compensation was well understood for hundreds, if not thousands of years, to be a tax free exchange of labor for the means of livelihood. Not so in the US after 1913.

As far as the question of how one can be born or naturalized in the US but not be subject to its jurisdiction, the scenario that comes immediately to my mind, but which may not be what the drafters of the 14th Amnd had in mind, is where a person born (or naturalized) in the US has expatriated and renounced US Citizenship. In that case, one would not be subject to the jurisdiction of the US for most civil law purposes, including taxing one's income. But, one could be subject to US criminal jurisdiction for crimes committed against the US, even if committed on foreign soil. This is especially true since the so-called laws passed after 9/11.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Here's Joel Gilbert's 2012 documentary about Obama's real origins, Dreams from My Real Father (http://obamasrealfather.com) :


Dreams From My Real Father (2012).mp4 (http://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Dreams%20From%20My%20Real%20Father%20(2012).mp4) (mp4, 97 mins, 479 Mb)

[Bill Ryan]

Alex Jones talking with Joel Gilbert re Obama's identity

Yes, excellent. :thumbsup: I recorded and edited Joel Gilbert's contribution, minus commercials and some of the more major diversions.

This is 55 mins long, but an excellent recap summary starts at 35:25, and many people without so much available time could begin right there. Joel Gilbert, who is very concise and articulate, spells out the entire story.

http://projectavalon.net/Joel_Gilbert_with_Alex_Jones_on_Obama_6_Dec_2016.mp3

[turiya]

So far, I've seen half of Joel Gilbert's documentary... taking a break thus far, and will see the rest of it shortly...

Regarding Joel Gilbert's interesting documentary about Obama's real origins... there is a segment of Obama's life that Joel appears to not have any record of... and that was his mid to late teens, when he attended Punahou School in Honolulu...

https://wtpotus.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/197820punahou20basketball20team1-2-copy.jpg

Pastor David James Manning of his Manning Report has interviewed a woman by the name of Mia Marie Pope who says she had known Obama in Hawaii. Its an interesting interview. There's only her testimony within the interview that substantiates her claim... that Obama was known as a pathalogical liar back in the day that she had come to know him. What she has to say in this interview just might fill in a part of what this individual is about & could add a valuable part of what Joel Gilbert provides in his documentary.

Mia Marie Pope's information also goes along with the information found in the Press Conference that Larry Sinclair had given prior to his mysterious death...


Part 1
Mia Marie Pope Ousts Barack Obama
as a Foreigner on the Manning Report
(Published on Nov 6, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEB-jl4DDhU__________________________

Part 2
Mia Marie Pope Strikes Again
(Published on Feb 19, 2015)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-_nM89ThFU__________________________

Larry Sinclair Press Conference about
Gay Love Affair with Barack Obama
(Published on Jul 30, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kbhkFrrxNs

[Bill Ryan]

Alex Jones talking with Joel Gilbert re Obama's identity

Yes, excellent. :thumbsup: I recorded and edited Joel Gilbert's contribution, minus commercials and some of the more major diversions.

This is 55 mins long, but an excellent recap summary starts at 35:25, and many people without so much available time could begin right there. Joel Gilbert, who is very concise and articulate, spells out the entire story.

http://projectavalon.net/Joel_Gilbert_with_Alex_Jones_on_Obama_6_Dec_2016.m p3

I pared the show right down in my mp3 edit ^^, but the entire thing (including images and documents which Joel Gilbert presented) is here. It may well be worth watching for serious students of Obama's true heritage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQrn2_Nh6M

[onawah]

Ordinarily I would dismiss much of this article:
http://endofwesternciv.blogspot.com/2014/03/islam-religion-of-new-world-order.html
...as the ravings of a sick mind, but after reading up more about Obama, I think there is some wisdom therein about his place in history as the Illuminati could perceive it, enamored as they are with repeating rituals, numerology, symbolism, etc. etc.
I can see how the author could have arrived at the conclusion that, assuming Obama was Akhenaten who tried to unite Egypt under the "One God" , he would be seen by the Illuminati as their perfect tool for ushering in the New World Order plan to make Islam (which is constantly proclaiming there is but one God) the world religion.
It does follow a weird kind of logic.
And the current influx of Islamic immigrants into Europe, the US, etc. would certainly seem to further that plan and support the theory.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Doug Hagmann interviews Susan Daniels, the investigator who did the initial investigation into Obama's social security number. (Date of interview: 27 Sept, 2016)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CRE1V0nyJQ

[turiya]

Years ago (it was in the '90s) I was doing quite a bit of research on the Income Tax & where the notion came from whereby MOST individuals that worked within the bureaucracy 'believed' that it was an absolute requirement for a American citizen to provide a Social Security Number.

It was during this time that I stumbled across a document / manual published by an obscure man entitled "Social Security Number Not Required" (http://www.macquirelatory.com/social%20security%20manuel.pdf). Very much interested in becoming more knowledgeable about this particular subject, I purchased it. I sent a check, I think it was for not a small amount, but from the examples I read about this publication, it looked like it was pretty thoroughly researched, as it had all kinds of Federal Regulations that were listed within it.

Anyway, after listening part way through the Doug Hagmann interview of Susan Daniels, when she talked about knowing from which State Obama's Social Security Number was issued, I remembered that there was a section within this manual that had outlined this particular data - notably, it was the first three digits of the SSN that told from what State the individual acquired his number.

I just located this pdf file (http://www.macquirelatory.com/social%20security%20manuel.pdf) and found a few images of this manual. Cover page is as follows (note: the name of the author is Not listed - for good reason) :


https://imgv2-1-f.scribdassets.com/img/document/2682567/original/21c9529742/1464762383

And, on Page 171 it begins listing what the digits mean - starting with the first three digits that designate from where the Social Security Number is issued...


http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/SOCIAL_SECURITY_NUMBER_NOT_REQUIRED.png

Someone that is not familar with this numbering system would not have a clue about what the numbers meant. But as Susan Daniels had said in her interview... having done thousands of searches, she would have easily seen that something was very odd regarding Obama and the Social Security number that he was associated with - regarding the State of issue & Obama's places of residence.

Interesting interview, thanks for posting...

[Chester]

I have only one objection to the first post

Religion discussion is irrelevant to the subject person's legality. American constitution does not allow its foreign country born citizens become a president of United of America. It is not mentioned to the skin color or religious background of candidate. Put it(religion definition of a person) in a legitimate argument is irrelevant.

I disagree. And here is why.

The details involved in making the case that "possibly" fraud has occurred does not involve the US jurisdiction alone. It also involves Kenya and Indonesia where religion may very well (and from my understanding DOES) have an impact on what happens regarding an individual's name that would be placed on a birth certificate as well as who their legal parents may be. So in my opinion, the religious component is likely relevant to the point and in fact integral.

[Tangri]

I have only one objection to the first post

Religion discussion is irrelevant to the subject person's legality. American constitution does not allow its foreign country born citizens become a president of United of America. It is not mentioned to the skin color or religious background of candidate. Put it(religion definition of a person) in a legitimate argument is irrelevant.

I disagree. And here is why.

The details involved in making the case that "possibly" fraud has occurred does not involve the US jurisdiction alone. It also involves Kenya and Indonesia where religion my very well (and from my understanding DOES) have an impact on what happens regarding an individual's name that would be placed on a birth certificate as well as who their legal parents may be. So in my opinion, the religious component is likely relevant to the point and in fact integral.

Of course you can be disagree with my post, but it does not change my claim's integrity (my post's intend). My post's words were logical and admissible. You are twisting my words, "religious component" work-less because he is not a claimed Muslim(you need to be a Muslim to understand that) and it is not contradicted with constitution. Probably you would(-might) definitely understand this part of the logic .)

Look below statement , Do you see any religious quotes there?

Qualifications for the Office of President
Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 - ratified February 27, 1951
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

http://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html


The Naturalization Act of 1790 stated "children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens."
http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/


Ahha!, now we can talk lies, frauds , his presidential readiness processes,... but again, not his religious and/ or his sexual preferences.

[Chester]

I have only one objection to the first post

Religion discussion is irrelevant to the subject person's legality. American constitution does not allow its foreign country born citizens become a president of United of America. It is not mentioned to the skin color or religious background of candidate. Put it(religion definition of a person) in a legitimate argument is irrelevant.

I disagree. And here is why.

The details involved in making the case that "possibly" fraud has occurred does not involve the US jurisdiction alone. It also involves Kenya and Indonesia where religion my very well (and from my understanding DOES) have an impact on what happens regarding an individual's name that would be placed on a birth certificate as well as who their legal parents may be. So in my opinion, the religious component is likely relevant to the point and in fact integral.

Of course you can be disagree with my post, but it does not change my claim's integrity (my post's intend). My post's words were logical and admissible. You are twisting my words, "religious component" work-less because he is not a claimed Muslim(you need to be a Muslim to understand that) and it is not contradicted with constitution. Probably you would(-might) definitely understand this part of the logic .)

Look below statement , Do you see any religious quotes there?

Qualifications for the Office of President
Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 - ratified February 27, 1951
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

http://www.presidentsusa.net/qualifications.html


The Naturalization Act of 1790 stated "children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens."
http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/


Ahha!, now we can talk lies, frauds , his presidential readiness processes,... but again, not his religious and/ or his sexual preferences.

My opinion only -

Regarding claiming or not claiming - Since when should anyone take the word of a pathological liar as honest and true? Obama "chose" to make people think he is a "Christian" all and only for political purposes. Obama chose to distance himself from Islam for the same reason. IMO Obama is no Christian and is no Muslim. Obama has chosen to be a tool and served reasonably well, yet... maybe not good enough. IMO also - Obama is not going away and Micheal is surely a potential tool in the toolkit of a shadow group struggling to retain power.

Regarding religion including the "religion" of atheism, thought systems, philosophies, etc. - it is clear (at least to me) that the influences of religion, et al. are joined at the hip with every other major facet of life despite what ideological opinions and/or governmental formation documents wish to be true or wish to impose.

Ignoring this sets one up for making erroneous conclusions based on incomplete informational considerations.

The result of doing this is that folks make poorer decisions and in some cases, these decisions have wide ranging effect impact many of us and/or all of us.

Obama (and many many others in all walks of life) uses religion et al. to achieve their individual or group goals which often contradict the tenets of the very religious/philosophical tool they employ.

Just to make sure folks here know my position regarding the making of sexual preference and sexual behavior an "issue" ...

My personal view is -

What one does in one's bedroom with anyone of reasonable capacity to know what they are involving themselves in and who have given their consent and who are of reasonably equal capacity to make their own decision (such that domination manifesting as coercion is not involved) should never be attacked verbally much less regulated. This is how I view the issue regarding sex.

That is why I am sad that Obama and Micheal have not been able to be honest that s/he's a tranny (if this is actually true - some make odds pretty high that it is indeed true).

It is also my opinion that if s/he is groomed well over the next 8 years, she would be the dems best shot for regaining the presidency.

[conk]

http://www.wnd.com/2016/12/investigators-find-source-for-obamas-online-birth-certification-image/

The Arizona sheriff is still on the case, unrelentingly.

[Eric J (Viking)]

Video in the link.

Former President Barack H. Obama had a slip of the tongue during a speech in Kogelo, Kenya today.

“Now, three years ago, I visited Kenya as the first sitting American President to come from Kenya,” he said.

https://twitter.com/ArizonaKayte/status/1021013988174311426

Viking

[Noelle]

Here is a better quality version of the speech. It appears to come from the source of the video, SABC News. The part of the speech referenced in the OP begins at about the 5.50 min. mark. The background screen is curious to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VarqWJl1boc

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Q said he would be trying to claim Kenyan citizenship before it was all said and done.


Saturday May 19 2018
Trump's top diplomat calls Kenya's Uhuru Kenyatta

NEW YORK.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has assured President Uhuru Kenyatta of the country's continued support for Kenya's security and economic development.

On Friday, Mr Pompeo and President Kenyatta also discussed “shared goals of countering terrorism, promoting regional security and ensuring good governance,” the State Department's spokeswoman said in a summary of a telephone call the top US diplomat made to the president.

http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/Trump-s-top-diplomat-calls-Kenya-s-Uhuru-Kenyatta/688334-4569704-3rfn53/index.html

Could just be coincidence but I find the timing very interesting.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I didn't see this particular clip posted here yet but some of the videos above are 404'd:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wocHuPmBDsM



[
The Naturalization Act of 1790 stated "children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens."
http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/

Here's the problem. The Naturalization Act of 1790 was just a regular piece of legislation voted upon by the Congress, and not a constitutional amendment. So, first of all, the Naturalization Act of 1790 is easily open to change later (and our most recent overhaul of immigration began in the 1960's). A second problem is that this same Naturalization Act of 1790 specifices that only whites can become citizens of the United States. So we are obviously not still going by that standard either. Why pick other parts of it to go by now?

[mojo]

Q said he would be trying to claim Kenyan citizenship before it was all said and done.

Totally believe Barry Soetoro is aware of things closing in on him. When it gets real hot he will stay out of the US and remain in a place that doesnt have extradition laws with the US. or perhaps stay in unknown locations? Sadly Barry will likely avoid justice because of all the secret ratlines and connections, just like Hitler did. ... He's the real treason to track down.

[BMJ]

Q said he would be trying to claim Kenyan citizenship before it was all said and done.

Q post 894, 9th March 2018.

[mojo]

So if he was born in Kenya it would also make him a better individual to be a real Manchurian Candidate as well.

2C9BjLq1RJo

[onawah]

Shocking NEW Revelations on Obama's Birth Certificate
Sheila Zilinsky
Published on Feb 22, 2019
Guests are Mike Zullo, Sheriff Arpaio's lead investigator, and Carl Gallups
(see: http://www.carlgallups.com/obamafraud/ )
d-74ai_dsbs

[onawah]

CNN Interview Goes off Rails After Jerome Corsi's Lawyer Insists Obama Birth Certificate Fraudulent
Freedom Watch
Published on Mar 5, 2019
E5BXrOqV494

[Seabreeze]

https://en.paperblog.com/breaking-obama-really-was-born-in-hawaii-608970/

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BLMGGpTD-8c/UbiknBNIg8I/AAAAAAAAC1c/8AV9h0jGkWY/s320/facebook_2064830596-759880.jpg

Hawaii Dormitory is one of several dormitories in the all-girls Catholic school called Loreto High School, in the green highlands of Limuru, in central Kenya, about 45 minutes from the capital, Nairobi.


It is said, this is where he is actually born - in Kenya. There is/must be paper work about it in Kenya. 3 - 4 days later his mother did fly with him to the hawaiian islands and had him officialy registered in the Hawaii State birth registry.

[Maia Gabrial]

Remember when Obummer's birth certificate was the National "Conspiracy Theory"? Remember how the Birthers were ridiculed by the lamestream medias? BTW that was censorship by the lamestream medias even back then.

Obummer maintained throughout that he was born in Hawaii, USA. Yeah, right....

So now, out of the horse's mouth:

QbXVMlxQRFY

It's nice to see them out themselves.... :becky:

[ClearWater]

He was clearly joking. Of course that doesn't mean it isn't true, but this isn't the kind of comment that's going to change anyone's mind about it being a 'Conspiracy Theory'.

[Satori]

He was clearly joking. Of course that doesn't mean it isn't true, but this isn't the kind of comment that's going to change anyone's mind about it being a 'Conspiracy Theory'.

He’s a smug and pompous criminal. He knows it’s true, and feels safe going there by arguably admitting it, but in a way that he can claim was facetious and a joke.

[RunningDeer]

Another joke that's not a joke. http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/rant.gif

An in your face reveal of entitlement to how he and his friends believe they can run the show any way they damn well please and get away with it again and again.

Time to retire their board game.
.............http://paula.avalonlibrary.net/smilies/alien-mask.gif

1338380114711572481
https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1338380114711572481

[ExomatrixTV]

If any criminal activity & deception & lies to cover up a crime is all of a sudden "in the open" does NOT mean you can drop the definition of what conspiracy really means ... and I do not have to explain myself what I mean by that ... I hope.

cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
December 16, 2020