PLEIADIAN Books: FRAUD or LEGIT? (Your quick opinion)

[Twelve]

I've been highly attracted to the Pleiadian teachings- they seem to resonate with me for some reason- but with so much disinformation out there I can't get a sense of what's real or what's not anymore. The only channeled book that I can say is for real without a doubt is A Course In Miracles, which I consider to be a spiritual masterpiece that is truly unparalleled. But I'd like everyone's opinions on 3 particular authors of Pleiadian books:


1. Barbara Marciniak
2. Amorah Quan Yin
3. Barbara Hand Clow

I've heard quite a few people mention that they strongly feel Marciniak is a Fraud and an agent of disinformation, but I just didn't get that impression myself. Her books are all about looking at both the dark and the light, not judging one as better than the other per se (just a different stage of consciousness), and leaving the individual empowered to be compassionate and stay discerning. The books inspired me to make many positive changes like changing my diet so that I'm not indirectly helping to continue the cruel treatment of animals, and to begin recycling because I'm more conscious of my connection to the earth, and to be more compassionate even as I look on the "dark" inside of me and the world, and so on and so on. In short, only good has come of it, and not of the simplistic new age kind that has me thinking only positive thoughts and not acknowledging the darker aspects of myself or the world. So I can't for the life of me understand what others are seeing in these books that I'm missing that makes them think Marciniak is a fraud and an agent of disinformation. I'd sincerely be open to hearing one thing that can hurt someone or leave them blind or ignorant after reading her books.

As for Amorah Quan Yin and Barbara Hand Clow, I haven't heard anything bad, although some of the stuff they write about seems more far fetched than Marciniak's stuff.

I would welcome any thoughts anyone has on these authors along with specific reasons why you think they're great or a fraud (instead of just feeling that way without being able to point to how their teachings could help or hurt). I would be especially interested to hear if anyone has attended any of Amorah Quan Yin's Pleiadian Lightwork trainings in California or elsewhere.

Thank you :)

[ghostrider]

There are no pleadians, that term was put out by the Plejaren and Edward Meier to openly expose hoaxers ...you can read some of what the plejaren had to say about certain individuals in the contact notes , visit the future of mankinds website and just type in the name in question... There were 5 or 6 people in telepathic contact with them most are passed away now ... One is still alive...

[RunningDeer]

There are no pleadians, that term was put out by the Plejaren and Edward Meier to openly expose hoaxers ...you can read some of what the plejaren had to say about certain individuals in the contact notes , visit the future of mankinds website and just type in the name in question... There were 5 or 6 people in telepathic contact with them most are passed away now ... One is still alive...

The Future Of Mankind: main page (http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Main_Page) & search page (http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Search)

[Michelle Marie]

The Earth, the Cosmos, and You was published in the late 90s. My grandmother told me how great it was and I read it then, and then again in the last couple of years. Helpful.

Information about a previous race who used surveillance and deception to trick people into giving up their sovereignty and free will choice smacks of conditions today in our world. I'm strong about using my own free will choice. I don't watch tv. I don't listen to radio stations (commercials). I don't buy into the deceptive practices because of these warnings and understanding. Knowing about potential pitfalls helps to avoid them. Knowing the roots of the agenda raises awareness, which in turn, helps you see things coming.

I meditate/contemplate the truth about stuff. Then I figure what is my relationship to the information. I ask my higher Self to discern what is my role in regards to this stuff. I use the useful info.

Hope this helps.
Lots of love,
Michelle Marie

[waves]

I bought into Marciniak back then and have discarded it all. Watch any conference video of her awful acting and exaggerated drawl supposedly answering questions while 'channeling'. Even back then Clow set off my red flags bigtime and I walked out of a lecture, but Marciniak does now too in flames, besides having caught on to the whole channelling scam. I don't think aliens would be using all the slang and sometime backwoods colloquialisms or making the stupid jokes for starters. No opinion on Amorah for having spent little time.

I greatly respect your refusal to ignore clues around you and the willingness to question and reconsider.

[ALLiTiZ]

Edward Meier's contact notes are the most interesting, entertaining, and is likely the most import topic I've ever researched. I read the "Message from the Pleiades, Volume 1-4, 2nd Edition: The Contact Notes of Eduard Billy Meier" by Ted Denmark Ph.D. in about a month, Billy Meier's story is amazing.

[Bluegreen]

There are those who may want to see the information firsthand available from bibliotecapleyades

The Pleiades - Articles - about half in English
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_pleyades.htm

Barbara Marciniak - Bringers Of The Dawn
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/pleyades/esp_pleyades_14.htm

Preston Nichols - Peter Moon
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_preston_moon.htm

[eagle0027]

Trust your OWN instincts 12...i as well resonate with the info you have described...as well as other info that others are now popoing as their apparent source magically has the correct info.And what may I ask makes them think their info is so perfect???
As my jinshindo mentor says...trust your own instincts and write your own book(metaohorically)

[Aurelius]

.. why not get the info straight from the horses mouth (http://forum.figu.org/us/messages/12/1871.html?1185909080)?

[dim]

but is the dirt, the mud, the little cuts or maybe the deeper ones, that boost our immune systems
it is among all the disinfo and frauds the soul builds its spiritual muscle, the spirit's weightlifting
the more we indulge the sooner we fed up for our discernment became sharp like a katana
then we overgrow past them and the true painless light shines by itself

in essence, disinfo plays a valuable role to our awakening, don't be afraid of it

[Twelve]

Thanks for all of your replies everyone. Much appreciated. I checked out the Future of Mankind site and searched for the authors on there, and the discourse about them was very harsh and smacked of anger, strong negativity, and defensiveness. Even if it were true that all of the authors I noted here are complete Frauds, I would think that spiritually advanced beings that are in contact with Billy would be more emotionally neutral, at the very least, in their discourse. Maybe I'm just projecting this on the writing, but I could literally feel a seething anger come from the words, which doesn't make sense to me. Not to say that spiritually advanced beings need to be all happy and flowery all the time, but they also wouldn't outright attack others with their words either in my opinion. They would simply state things as matter of fact and move on. Despite that, however, I'm going to read the Contact Notes of Billy Meier and make a more informed decision about who's being truthful.

Thank you all for the info!

[raff]

Apparently B. Marciniak did openly come out and say that the pleiadians she was channeling were reptilians. In Jelaila Starrs book (she's only written a couple and I can't remember which) she was at a expo and came out publicly annoying a lot of people and i believe slowed or at least stopped channeling since then.

[Twelve]

Didn't find anything about Marciniak admitting that, but from the bit of reading I did about Starr, it's much more likely that she's the one who's the disinformant. Ahhhh.... it gets more and more complicated :)

One thing to add, is that David Icke, who's work I greatly respect and who is someone that I think has done more to expose the truth about the world we live in than almost anyone else, mentions (in his book the Perception Deception) that he personally knows Barbara Marciniak and has read her books and finds her very grounded and real. This coming from a man who's entire career has centered on exposing lies and secret agendas of the powers that rule this world.... Just something to think about..

[EdithGibbs]

it always amuses me when the moderators n avenues of belief are questioned. We as a society have swallowed unbelieval lies throughout our lives. The information from a the Pleaidians is more believable than that of thousands years or more "everything has been a lie".
I personally believe all of these writers regarding their experiences. I was i

[Limor Wolf]

Hi Twelve, I hope you enjoy your Avalon experience :)

In my eyes, it all eventually comes to our own expactations from it - are we looking for a hand to hold tightly or maybe some guidelines for an existance that we not yet versed on and aware of. With regards to the quality of the information supplied, a good point for thought is if the suggested 'complete picture' of the material presented is for us human beings to continue our dwelling in a developement and evolvement within the Matrix ( being 'free' but greatly impacted by the needs and developement stage of others, being subordinated to them without our knowledge), or outside of it (becoming complete free soverign beings who are able to interact with others under universal spiritual laws with gentle assistance and considered as equals). The second one is the 'kaviar' of all outcomes but there's a psycological barrier for the fact that we don't request it for ourselves, being the 'beaten species', much as the 'beating', reduced from our own understanding of ourselves and our potential and immersed in amnesia, and with that we are supposed to understand the balance of powers and make our choice... information and encouragement is thrown at us.. not a very comfortable situation. Because for a potentially complete soverign outcome we need to desire it, ask for it and work our butts off for it ourselves so we can be considered as a species who have evolved enough and can be autonomous, but it is a rare destination and is hardly encouraged in any channeling, even the most sympathetic one to the condition of the human race. We ought to keep in mind that our future fate is strongly related to the presence fate of others. There are many considerations to take while we make our stand internally and externally, but eventually, we are all the same body. Different organs with different functions, so, when love, respect, sincerety and integrity and the encouragement for freedom for all leads the way in any one message we recieve, then we know that we can all release this game.

[TargeT]

everything is related, we live in a fractal universe (the scale is just hard to comprehend at times). All true knowledge will be repeated large and small, above and below; you will see echo's of truth everywhere. This is expected.

But a fractal can still be true to the pattern with slight deviation from the greater whole (with a large correction in the wings, as everything ebbs and flows (cycles) in and out of the "master" pattern) so even the "Pleiadian" writings can "sound" right or "resonate" with you, because a lot of the correct pattern is there, just slightly deviated.

But then, you asked for "quick", so here's quick: FRAUD.

There are no saviors from "out there"; unless you consider how disconnected we are from ourselves and our environment; I suppose we are "out there" really... YOU are the hero of your story, act like it!

YTuElM6T50w

[AxisMundi]

Interesting thread and interesting to see the divergent opinions. Personally I found 'Bringers of the Dawn' by Marciniak to be a beautiful and inspired masterpiece. It came across as being very balanced in terms of dealing with many of very frightening topics (Reptilians, STS control system, Genetic Manipulation) and yet wasn't at all delivered in a 'Fear Based' style. It was very much 'This is what is happening and as multi-dimensional souled beings you humans have enough power to DEAL with this'.

I found the chapter(s) on human sexuality to be also very profound and seemed to tie in with alot of ancient Taoist teachings about the real nature and potential power of Male and Female sexual energies.

In contrast, I found Barbara Hand Clow to be almost unreadable. I can't comment on the other Author as haven't read anything by her............

[Lancet]

Everyone and everything has a purpose. I found some of these channellers - B. Marciniak, Bashar, and Delores Canon quite uplifting early on in my awakening. It was like a stepping stone. I still find that they have some relevance, and they are quite fun to watch in a way.

reflect on what they say, take what you need, and move on. And discover other things, and repeat. If you find a great truth then you can choose to internalize it.

JT

[MorningFox]

I don't think aliens would be using all the slang and sometime backwoods colloquialisms or making the stupid jokes for starters.



Rubbishing something off due to your own lack of understanding isn't really the best thing to do. I understand where you're coming from but how on earth do you know that real channelled information wouldn't use colloquialisms and stupid jokes? After all it's probably that if it is real and does exist, the ideas would come in to the mind in form as knowledge and would still have to be expressed through the human, in the humans terms.

[Pam]

I bought into Marciniak back then and have discarded it all. Watch any conference video of her awful acting and exaggerated drawl supposedly answering questions while 'channeling'. Even back then Clow set off my red flags bigtime and I walked out of a lecture, but Marciniak does now too in flames, besides having caught on to the whole channelling scam. I don't think aliens would be using all the slang and sometime backwoods colloquialisms or making the stupid jokes for starters. No opinion on Amorah for having spent little time.

I greatly respect your refusal to ignore clues around you and the willingness to question and reconsider.


I have to admit that some of the terminology used by these channellers was a real turn off to me as well. I guess you could consider that the entity using the individual has to operate through the filter of the individual and will therefore pick up on their traits and the way they phrase things.

At the end of the day, if someone has been able to make positive changes from this information it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

[TargeT]

At the end of the day, if someone has been able to make positive changes from this information it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

yes, this is all that matters really; it just seems that the majority of "channeled info" followers are at best "slacktavists" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism) & at worst Slacktavist recruiters...


Anything that is built on a foundation of lies/fraud to me is not a building I will willingly enter, no matter HOW awesome the furniture is or how amazing the paint job.


Channeling is built entirely on the logical fallacy (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/): Appeal to Authority (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority) (though for spice there's a lot of "Appeal to emotion (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion)" mixed in with a few others as well).

[Twelve]

Thanks for the insights everyone.

TargeT, I definitely wouldn't say that all channeling is built on the appeal to authority. There is some channeling that quite clearly leaves all of the authority in our hands- completely- but simply acts as a guide and reminds us to turn within to our true higher self and inner knowingness. The best case of the clearest form of channeling in my opinion, like I have mentioned before, can be found in the unparalleled work that exposes all of the inner workings of the ego as well as the beautiful reality of our true self, A Course In Miracles. The channel, Helen Schucman, was an atheist, had a temper, and was not the typical spiritual person at all. Yet she was a very evolved soul in another way and did have a deep spiritual side that allowed her to possibly be the clearest and best channel in history to scribe such a work as A Course In Miracles. The work itself has been much misunderstood, especially due to its Christian language (seen as a correction to Christianity), but anyone who reads it truly, while also reading the deep explanation of it from Kenneth Wapnick (who I've personally met, and who was known by everyone to have ever met him to be enlightened and completely ego free- I've never seen such a love in a person.... truly a love not of this world), would recognize that the love that inspired the book is not of this world. And yet the love that inspired the book also dissects the workings of the ego (thought system of separation and fear) like no other work ever channeled. In fact nothing even comes close. But the point is, that not all channeled work is built on a fallacy. I think that may be too closed minded of a view on the subject. This particular channeled work makes it very clear throughout that we have all the power, and in fact there is nothing but us, for we are one Mind that thinks it is many.

Anyhow, it's clear that A Course In Miracles is my spiritual path, and in one sense I don't need any other, Pleiadian or otherwise. However, since I discovered David Icke's books and learned of the true nature of the illusion we live in (which is not discussed in A Course In Miracles for that focuses only on the level of the Mind and not the level of form), I have been fascinated and want to know, if nothing but from pure curiosity, of other ways to heal and evolve as a soul that could complement my work with the Course. And this new path has led to some conundrums, to say the least :) But it's all good and I'm trying to keep it lighthearted as I figure out what's "real" and what's not in this grand illusion we call life.

Appreciate all of your comments and happy to be a part of this community.

[RunningDeer]

At the end of the day, if someone has been able to make positive changes from this information it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

yes, this is all that matters really; it just seems that the majority of "channeled info" followers are at best "slacktavists" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism) & at worst Slacktavist recruiters...


Anything that is built on a foundation of lies/fraud to me is not a building I will willingly enter, no matter HOW awesome the furniture is or how amazing the paint job.


Channeling is built entirely on the logical fallacy (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/): Appeal to Authority (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority) (though for spice there's a lot of "Appeal to emotion (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion)" mixed in with a few others as well).

YourLogicalFallacyIs.com (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com) is a good resource site. Thanks, Target.

In case people missed it or prefer not to download the poster, click on each of the 24 icons and it’ll bring up the definition. Go back to the main page by clicking on the banner at the top.

:offtopic:

[TargeT]

Thanks for the insights everyone.

TargeT, I definitely wouldn't say that all channeling is built on the appeal to authority. There is some channeling that quite clearly leaves all of the authority in our hands- .

Right, but "appeal to authority" isn't a nebulous concept, it has a very clear definition: Saying a thing is true because an authority figure told you, therefor it must be true. (my paraphrasing)


But the point is, that not all channeled work is built on a fallacy.

Almost all channeling has this type of formula: "some admiral in the Pleiadian army is channeling this info through me, so it is true".... This is a very good example of the logical fallacy "appeal to authority".

Logical fallacy is a component of critical thinking, it sets emotion to the side (for simplicity) and attempts to clarify communication and ensure that "logic" is used to find out conclusions. It's a highly structured way of thinking that will quickly show you when someone is trying to manipulate you through "tricky words" or "double talk" or any of the myriad of other verbal techniques that are used to guide (or trick) the human mind.

This information used to be taught ubiquitously via the Trivium and Quadrivium. (http://www.triviumeducation.com/) until it was decided that an educated population was less attractive than a dumbed down one.

[waves]

I don't think aliens would be using all the slang and sometime backwoods colloquialisms or making the stupid jokes for starters.



Rubbishing something off due to your own lack of understanding isn't really the best thing to do. I understand where you're coming from but how on earth do you know that real channelled information wouldn't use colloquialisms and stupid jokes? After all it's probably that if it is real and does exist, the ideas would come in to the mind in form as knowledge and would still have to be expressed through the human, in the humans terms.

Yes, I did rationalize it off that way at first because the material resonated with me so strongly and I enjoyed believing it. I reconsidered when I realized the slang and colloquialisms would also be true that if the channeling was fraudulent and delivered by a clever backwoods charlatan or psyops pawn, it would also be littered with the limits of the deliverer's prejudices and habits of expression.

Also, back then Marciniak was marketing herself in consort with and as if in total agreement with Clow and I made myself ignore big red flags wondering how Marciniak's info could be true when Clow's energy was so grossly repulsive.

My post may have mistakenly implied that I'm saying I think everything in Marciniak's books is wrong. I have also come to realize that the most effective manipulative disinfo isn't just lies, it's more frequently a cleverly woven mixture. I now regard her stuff as a former 'stepping stone' like Lancet said, but suspect there can be manipulative danger within the writing I am unaware of how to defend myself from, so I avoid any further exposure.

Since you feel I have a 'lack of understanding' about channeling and are seemingly defending your proven better knowledge and coming to Marciniak's defense please explain how you have proven to yourself the existence of pleiadians, her validity as someone 'channeling' one and/or that's it's ever valid, and how you tell the difference between very clever psyop delivered channelling and a supposed real one.

I haven't found any confirmation yet of channeling validity, but lots for highly sophisticated psyops ability and long term clever agendas since the 50's. A big pervasive clue to me is that despite these supposed knowledgeable all seeing eyes that are supposedly freely accessing minds and seem to want to explain such specific detail about human mind, souls and history, NONE ever address specific current world affairs, players or address such huge and long implemented psyop infiltration agendas in the same realm.

As a psyops tool, channeling only very big, airy, conceptual, unprovable musing littered with truth is a great agenda for pressing big buttons of existence questioning needs to keep eyes off of the earthly manipulators of the tangible world, and keep the more dangerous, intelligent thinkers from thinking and organizing.

[raregem]

There are no pleadians, that term was put out by the Plejaren and Edward Meier to openly expose hoaxers ...you can read some of what the plejaren had to say about certain individuals in the contact notes , visit the future of mankinds website and just type in the name in question... There were 5 or 6 people in telepathic contact with them most are passed away now ... One is still alive...

Ghostrider- I want to thank you for your thought out responses on PA.
I have a thought regarding this statement.. I have heard/ read this idea before. At some point I think people have understood Plejaren is the correct name instead of Pleiadians. I wonder if people use Pleiadian simply because it is so common even if they know better....just a thought...Also, I find any and all absolutes these days still questionable. So much info, so many condradictory differences in the same subject. Also, what about the letter "J" ..how does that come into play when it didn't exist 2000 years ago.? Thanks again raregem

[DeDukshyn]

...

Channeling is built entirely on the logical fallacy (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/): Appeal to Authority (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority) (though for spice there's a lot of "Appeal to emotion (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion)" mixed in with a few others as well).

Not all "channeled" material comes from a place of an imagined or perceived authority; But I do get a kick out of Channeled messages from names like "General Maktrakon of the Starship Euphestus, leader of the betazoid race" -- well I made all that up of course, but one gets the idea.

The only "channelings" that really resonate with me aren't really even channelings (by the technical definition as provided by JZ Knight / Ramtha), but the source is not revealed in them at all - there is no "authority" or even a loose description of the source -- just a message. So while a fairly broad brush can be used in your observation, an all encompassing one would be erroneous. I think Bashar may be an exception to that "rule", I like his messages, they make good sense.


On the OP question, I will say that any channeling that seems to have a well defined "source", such as a specific group of a specific species of alien, or from an authoritative "archangel" generally does not resonate with me much. I have to throw pleiadian channeling in that group. At the same time, as other's mentioned, I don't criticize works that have true intention and provide tools for people to better themselves, I can judge specific pieces well enough that I don't need to care about the source of material as much as others have to rely on ... this is an incredibly useful tool, but I also understand that not everyone has the capacity for this level of discernment, and therefore rely on judgement of the source, rather than judgment of the material. I believe we all need to strive to reach the model where we can bring discernment to things for what they are, and rely less on having a preformed judgment on what the source is, to try to determine the value of the material.

[ghostrider]

They knew from the beginning, hoaxers would come out of the woodwork, they use telepathic impulses to bring a needed advancement to a world when it ready for the next step in evolution... As for the spelling, the correct way is with a J, I'm a terrible speller so I roll with it... The people that are sent impulses have no idea what is happening, it's done that way across the universe... We think it's great minds of our generation, it's really our watchers helping us evolve when we are ready... Their ancestors called themselves the sons of heaven, hint...

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I have really enjoyed information from Barbara Marciniak and her Pleiadians, including her books, audio tapes and live channeling sessions.
Around 1991, she was my introduction to learning about the reptilians.

Two other sources of channeled information I've enjoyed are Esther Hicks (Abraham) and the *early* teachings of Ramtha (the White Book).

I cannot say how accurate these sources are but I can say that I have enjoyed them.

My wish is to connect to my own HS and get truthful answers to all my questions, hopefully before this 73 year old vehicle croaks. And when that finally happens, much discernment will still be required, while wearing a meatsuit or not.

If HS materializes in this reality sometime for a chat, I feel certain I will get a smile returned when I ask "Who the hell are you?". Until then I expect to remain a constant source of entertainment for HS as he/she turns to his/her associates, laughs and says "Look at what he is doing now!"

Question everything. The truth is never hurt by shinning more light on it.

[JChombre]

The books inspired me to make many positive changes ... and to be more compassionate even as I look on the "dark" inside of me and the world, and so on and so on.

In short, only good has come of it, and not of the simplistic new age kind that has me thinking only positive thoughts and not acknowledging the darker aspects of myself or the world.

So I can't for the life of me understand what others are seeing in these books that I'm missing that makes them think Marciniak is a fraud and an agent of disinformation.

Dear Twelve,

Thank you so much for your insightful post. I would like you to know that I appreciate your honesty and openness.

Quite a long time ago, I read the work of Marciniak, Amorah Quan Li and Hand Clow. In fact, I spent a three-day weekend attending Barbara Marciniak workshops. However I don't consider myself an expert in their work, and I have not being involved with them for many years. So I am going to disappoint you by not telling you whether or not they are fraud. One thing that I can tell you is that in those days, I got exposed to the work of several people and that helped me open up to the world of spirituality at a time when I was trying to understand things that I could not explain in my life... So, I am grateful that these ladies' and so many other people's work came to my life.

As far as whether or not their information is true, let's me just say that in my humble opinion, ALL the information that is currently available to us in this world is distorted. There is not such a thing as a 100% accurate information or story. The distortion can be deliberately introduced; or it can happen in a non-malicious way, e.i. in the way that the information energy is given/received, or is interpreted or translated into words.

So for me the focus is not really on the absolute truthfulness of the teachings. My focus is to find what is true in a distorted story or teaching; and once I find it, figure out (if possible) how to use it in my life. Again, from my humble perspective, there is an element of truth in every story or teaching, so we cannot discard every story because of these inaccuracies. After all, "we don't throw away the baby with the bath water." Of course, I would prefer to work on a story that is 25% than 80% distorted.

So how do we find what is true in a story? I don't have to say anything to you about it because you are doing it extremely well. What I learned as I read your posts is that, you know how to take the information inside and "listen" to it. Then, you have learned to accept what resonates with you. So if some of Marciniak, Amorah or Hand Clow's information resonate with you and has helped you change your life positively; then, that is the true for you in these ladies's teachings. And that's good news because it shows that you have learned to use your divine inner discernment to find the truth in what some might consider a sea of distortion.

I would like to point out that what is true for you or what resonates with you in the three ladies' work may not resonate with other people, and that is fine. It does not mean that you are wrong or that they are right. It simply means that in this life time, at this specific time the information presented is not required for their spiritual development. To illustrate this point, a long time ago I tried to read/study A Course of Miracles several times, but for some reasons it just didn't work for me...Does it mean that it is a bad book or that the information presented is worthless? Not at all! I understand that A Course in Miracles is not a book that I had bookmarked to use in my spiritual search in this lifetime.

My point here is that your truth is yours only, and other people truth is their only. So it is going to be very challenging to convince some people that Marciniak, Amorah and Hand Clow have anything valuable to offer to them in this life time, at this specific time; and that is ok.:o

Many blessings to you.

JC

[Twelve]

JC, thank you so much for your perceptive post. What you say rings true for me :) I think you made a very good point, and indeed it has been how I've tended to look at things in the past. It's just recently that I've gotten a bit too caught up in the idea of disinformation by the "dark" powers, and I've let that idea grow stronger than it should have. My own intuitive discernment has never led me astray, and when it has led me to things that were not meant to be a part of my path, they somehow ended up quickly helping me anyways by showing me what I don't consider true for me. So they didn't end up being bad things. Thank you so much for your gentle reminder.

Much love.

[MorningFox]

Since you feel I have a 'lack of understanding' about channeling and are seemingly defending your proven better knowledge and coming to Marciniak's defense please explain how you have proven to yourself the existence of pleiadians, her validity as someone 'channeling' one and/or that's it's ever valid, and how you tell the difference between very clever psyop delivered channelling and a supposed real one.

haha, don't be so defensive. I know NOTHING about channeling and don't have strong opinions for or against the existence of pleiadians. My point was simply that you can't rubbish something off simply because it doesn't fit with your limited understanding of it.

[TargeT]

Question everything. The truth is never hurt by shinning more light on it.

I've been saying that for years; it's never a bad philosophy.



My own intuitive discernment has never led me astray, and when it has led me to things that were not meant to be a part of my path, they somehow ended up quickly helping me anyways by showing me what I don't consider true for me. So they didn't end up being bad things.

Definitely hard to keep that in mind some times; but that's all that matters.


It's just recently that I've gotten a bit too caught up in the idea of disinformation by the "dark" powers

haha, hello mirror!

[Valley]

Nice discussion, fine folks... It seems to me that we're all 'channeling' something, or portions of 'something', much greater than our current imaginations can muster. So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?... Or, How much clarity is present?... and, How is this material affecting my consciousness/awareness/advancement?

As far as Marciniak's material goes... I have a short story on my first introduction to it, several years ago: One day I said to the 'Universe'... Put me in contact with some real good ETs, please. Just a day or few later I found her first "P" book, "Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. It seemed quite magical to me at the time, and after reading through it for a while I realized that there was great wisdom/advice being given, many times in a quite playful and humorous fashion. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself.:shocked: Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.

Brings to mind this old TV show used to watch as a kid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNhu-aESVqc

[waves]

...The best case of the clearest form of channeling in my opinion, like I have mentioned before, can be found in the unparalleled work that exposes all of the inner workings of the ego as well as the beautiful reality of our true self, A Course In Miracles. The channel, Helen Schucman, was an atheist, had a temper, and was not the typical spiritual person at all. Yet she was a very evolved soul in another way and did have a deep spiritual side that allowed her to possibly be the clearest and best channel in history to scribe such a work as A Course In Miracles. The work itself has been much misunderstood, especially due to its Christian language (seen as a correction to Christianity), but anyone who reads it truly, while also reading the deep explanation of it from Kenneth Wapnick (who I've personally met, and who was known by everyone to have ever met him to be enlightened and completely ego free- I've never seen such a love in a person.... truly a love not of this world), would recognize that the love that inspired the book is not of this world. And yet the love that inspired the book also dissects the workings of the ego (thought system of separation and fear) like no other work ever channeled. In fact nothing even comes close. But the point is, that not all channeled work is built on a fallacy. I think that may be too closed minded of a view on the subject. This particular channeled work makes it very clear throughout that we have all the power, and in fact there is nothing but us, for we are one Mind that thinks it is many.

Anyhow, it's clear that A Course In Miracles is my spiritual path, and in one sense I don't need any other, Pleiadian or otherwise. However, since I discovered David Icke's books and learned of the true nature of the illusion we live in (which is not discussed in A Course In Miracles for that focuses only on the level of the Mind and not the level of form), I have been fascinated and want to know, if nothing but from pure curiosity, of other ways to heal and evolve as a soul that could complement my work with the Course. And this new path has led to some conundrums, to say the least :) But it's all good and I'm trying to keep it lighthearted as I figure out what's "real" and what's not in this grand illusion we call life.

Appreciate all of your comments and happy to be a part of this community.

More and more authors, speakers and truth seekers I formerly respected seem to be falling every week as I go deeper down this hole. This is how clever, insidious and successful the creation of the New Age movement and introduction of the concept of channeling has been, apparently twisting very deeply soul resonant concepts with a very specific and manipulative dark agenda. There's a lot of dot connecting on this site that gives great pause. Here's one little snapshot of Thetford/Course in Miracles CIA/MKUltra connections..

https://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA#-6685

http://s29.postimg.org/rb313q6tj/2015_11_19_1045.png

[Valley]

One thing I find rather important in considering this general topic is to not think so much about what others are doing, or trying to do... and instead to look more at what we are doing ourselves. It can become very emotionally distracting/disturbing if we spend 'too much' time contemplating someone else's possible 'dark' deeds/agendas. I also realize that being proactive, progressive, and helpful/heartfelt towards others is 'the way to go'.

[Twelve]

Waves.... yes I'm aware that William Thetford was previously part of the CIA. But that doesn't mean he was part of the "dark" side, nor that he couldn't have extricated himself if he was. Also, he wasn't the channel. In the end, I agree with Valley, and I think that the webbrain site you reference possibly has some key holes in its deductions. Ultimately, anyone who understands the Course at a deep level would clearly see that nothing but good and love could come out of it, especially since it exposes every aspect of darkness we try to keep hidden within ourselves. The love permeates every page, and the metaphysical backdrop is that the Course is not talking to us as a seemingly separated body, but as the Mind that dreamt up the whole illusion of separation to begin with, putting us in the ultimate seat of power. Once again, though, I would not recommend anyone take up the study of the Course without reading the work of Dr. Kenneth Wapnick, who, apart from his brilliance of understanding and teaching the complex metaphysical concepts the Course is based on, if there were ever a truly enlightened being walking on this earth, he was it (from personal experience of knowing him).

But in the end, like others have mentioned, the best thing to do is to trust your intuition and inner guiding voice and not assume that any source that contradicts with what you're feeling is proving that you are wrong.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

One thing I find rather important in considering this general topic is to not think so much about what others are doing, or trying to do... and instead to look more at what we are doing ourselves. It can become very emotionally distracting/disturbing if we spend 'too much' time contemplating someone else's possible 'dark' deeds/agendas. I also realize that being proactive, progressive, and helpful/heartfelt towards others is 'the way to go'.

I suspect we are always creating with our thoughts and emotions. It is better to be a deliberate creator (imagining how it feels to already have what we want) instead of a default creator (reacting to things we do not want).

:focus:

[bettye198]

I too, was sucked into Bringers of the Dawn but like someone did post, it stimulated an awakening. However, Barbara M. has fallen through the cracks and I learned she had a brain tumor! Beyond all that, any channeling I feel is a vulnerable placement whereas any entity can join in. So disinfo is prevalent and who knows? may be a tool for the New Age curricula. I did resonate with Ashayana Deane now called E'Asha with her books on the planetary history: Voyagers Vol 1 and 2. Comprehensive amazing detailed info and even after I read it many times, it still boggles my mind! She does not channel. It is called active streaming. The Beloveds are 13-14-15th Dimensional beings of consciousness who wrote the tablets she streams from to write the books. She was groomed by the Hawaiian Melchisedek High priests from early age to learn to do this. By the end of the 90's she accomplished the writings. Since then her workshops are ongoing and pretty spectacular with new info all the time. I studied many years and in that time worked with her meditations to elevate the DNA frequency. Her premise is to elevate that in order to exit the ancient gates in order to avoid reincarnation wheel. We need to launch out of this dimensional hold.

[JChombre]

So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?...

"Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself.:shocked: Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.

Hi Valley,

I agree with you that channeling is possible. However I feel that there is always a static/distortion in the traditional channeling where the information move from a discarnate being to a physical one who transcribes the message in words.

I think that the only time when the static/distortion is decreased to almost nothing is when a person receives the information from his higher-self/god-self. However, beyond that point, even with adequate protection, there is always a certain level of distortion even when the information originates and is transcribed in words by the same person.

So you paid 10 cents for Bringers of the Dawn!!! Really an amazing gift from the universe. I pretty much had the same type of experience than you with this book. It expanded my horizons to unlimited levels considering my very rigid catholic upbringing and my rigorous training in science...This book and the ones that came my way later on helped me understand a lot of things, among which that I was ok (e.i., not crazy)

During the 3 days that I spent with Barbara Marciniak, she did something very interesting. I asked her a question about some information from one of her books. She was in trance and answered my question by quoting word-for-word the passage in her book that I was referring to. She did that over and over with other questions from the audience.

Another interesting thing that I learned from an old friend is that the information in Bringers of the Dawn is not static; meaning that the content of the book could shift to something else. She re-read the book after many years and found some information that she did not see the first time that she read the book... I was able to verify that.

Have a wonderful evening:bigsmile:.

JC

[dim]

More and more authors, speakers and truth seekers I formerly respected seem to be falling every week as I go deeper down this hole. This is how clever, insidious and successful the creation of the New Age movement and introduction of the concept of channeling has been, apparently twisting very deeply soul resonant concepts with a very specific and manipulative dark agenda. There's a lot of dot connecting on this site that gives great pause. Here's one little snapshot of Thetford/Course in Miracles CIA/MKUltra connections..


the powers that not be are very happy to make you feel they are in control of everything
they are trying hard for it and they jump of joy everytime somebody falls in to that pit

[Carmen]

I've read many of the books of two of these authors and found them very helpful. That was years ago! Bringers of the Dawn I've read many times. People have to trust their own 'self' when it comes to all information. After years of reading, training and experiences I don't listen to anyone's opinion of what I should or shouldn't read or study. It's entirely my own business. I was quite annoyed a few years back when there was a concentrated effort to 'dis' all channeled material, as if we didn't have the brains or the discernment to decide for ourselves what was true or not. And actually, I find I have often learned more from 'mistakes' or the 'school of hard knocks' than the bland and safe road that the majority follow or believe in. My knowing is my business, and part of the flow of my life. The key books of my learning stay with me! When I have reached a new understanding or level of consciousness I understand these key books at a whole new level. They are my touchstones of spiritual progress. Don't let anyone tell you what to read or not to read. Use your own discernment.

[JChombre]

People have to trust their own 'self' when it comes to all information.

After years of reading, training and experiences I don't listen to anyone's opinion of what I should or shouldn't read or study. It's entirely my own business.

My knowing is my business, and part of the flow of my life.

Don't let anyone tell you what to read or not to read. Use your own discernment.



Amen!!! Nothing else to add


JC

[3(C)+me]

I have been around channeling for a long time, I don't do it myself, nor do I want to because it is very obvious that their are the three letter agencies in on this and their are some non-physicals that are here to mess with us so I just don't trust most channelings. I think the new age movement has been largely taken over. But I have seen Barbara on a number of occasions and a friend left me some CD's so I am familiar with her work. She says some very unpopular things and she does not suffer fools well, she has a edge to her and is very to the point. She will call you out and if you are not prepared it can be a bit of a shock. If you are spiritually lazy are in escapist mode or want out of the body, believe me you will get feedback that will be very painful.
She has said some things that for a while were very upsetting to me, usually a belief I wanted to hold on to as true, she had me examining what I believe and why and how it effects my day to day life. Right there I thank her for that, valuable lession for me, straightened out a lot of personal garbage.
Having said that, she has approach that is not for everyone. Plus people have to understand about timelines and other parallel realities so which reality is she going to tell you about because has she has said a million times you slip into different ones every time you make up your mind and act out some decision.
She she assured me it's ok to take care of myself, say no, love nature it will love you back but one as to do the work and let's face it this place is confusing and the 1% want to keep you confused. She has helped me be more clear and less confused but she is not for everyone and some people will call her a fraud and fake and I have no issue with that because she is I think for a select few.
If you love your cell phone and carry it around 24/7 she may not be your cup of tea.

[JChombre]

However, Barbara M. has fallen through the cracks and I learned she had a brain tumor!.


As I recall, it was Barbara Marciniak's sister who had a tumor. Barbara was fine. If this is a new situation, then I am really sorry and sadden to hear this.

Many blessings.

JC

[waves]

More and more authors, speakers and truth seekers I formerly respected seem to be falling every week as I go deeper down this hole. This is how clever, insidious and successful the creation of the New Age movement and introduction of the concept of channeling has been, apparently twisting very deeply soul resonant concepts with a very specific and manipulative dark agenda. There's a lot of dot connecting on this site that gives great pause. Here's one little snapshot of Thetford/Course in Miracles CIA/MKUltra connections..

the powers that not be are very happy to make you feel they are in control of everything
they are trying hard for it and they jump of joy everytime somebody falls in to that pit

They sure are, but I said nothing that implied despair and your projection that it did has nothing to do with my state of mind, quite the opposite. Despite accepting that it is a neverending job to not be in denial of the many tentacles of the sophisticated new age agenda with very clever programming that really do exist, I don't in the least feel overwhelmed like 'the powers are in control of everything' for constantly eliminating more and more weeds of illusion from my garden of perception and I'm in constant appreciation of how much freer I am than the sheeple around me.

Therefore, the more and more former icons falling I referred to are only refining and strengthening that clarity. I'm not only willing but anxious to discard anything once trusted if the illusion is exposed, or put anything on hold that develops red flags until the questions are answered. Channeling is overflowing with some of the reddest red flags, especially a claim of having channeled 'Jesus'.

Yes, in theory trust self, but we're not done growing. How many things have you once 'trusted' then realized you were a fool? Most likely there are more right now.

I think beliefs require relentless due diligence. It's easy for the alternative community to constantly bemoan the falsehoods sheeple are blind to, but not so much their own, and seem just as vulnerable to new age feel good packages full of lofty, unprovable stories in the same way as religious ones. Re ACIM for example, besides the claim the source was Jesus, why not full-frontally account for - without excuse making - the other serious red flags about the players like fairly levelheadedly outlined in this article https://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/a-course-in-miracles-a-cia-exercise-in-mind-control/ before allowing it to be your lens of perception?

Also related in a thread on the validity of channeling, there is much to get informed about regarding the CIA/MKUltra history of voice to skull technology patents and who has used/is using as crucial due diligence before adopting any beliefs in the possible products of it.

So which ones are the CIA dictated/channeled new age agenda propaganda books?

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I'll cast my vote briefly:


1. Barbara Marciniak

After following her stuff on and off for years I eventually came to the conclusion that, if she is legitimately channeling Pleiadians, then they are placing their own agendas ahead of what would most empower humanity itself. The things that led me to believe this were subtle but clear to me, for example what seemed to me a clear population control justification in some of the messages.


2. Amorah Quan Yin

Never heard of her before but will check her out now that you mention her.


3. Barbara Hand Clow

I couldn't remember much about her work so I did a crash course back through it and only just briefly listening I heard her talking in an interview about how mankind is still extremely damaged from a previous cataclysm. I just wonder if I were sensitive enough to be in communication with advanced ETs if I would not also be sensitive enough to frame these sentiments in another way that are more difficult to take as a pessimistic attitude or belief about the great potential for exponential growth we have as a species right now. You get what I mean here?

That's a critical thing for me, as it effectively becomes the "cui bono" with these things. If the message can be disempowering in any way then I tend to be suspect that it is not truly coming from advanced, benevolent ETs.

[Valley]

Good Day, Hombre... Nice to hear your 'side', in this channeling 'divide'. :) That's interesting how she/they could/would recite many passages, word for word while in trance... and how that the info/text in the book may actually be 'morphing' over time. I recently started reading portions of it again, and seemed to notice 'new info' there too. I'm not certain of this, but your comment reinforces my experience. You said you were able to verify some of this?

One other interesting side-note: I went online to research Marciniak, after getting that first book... and found that she just happened to be doing a live channeling event in about a week, and only about an hour drive away from where I was then... I went. (Giving me just enough time to get through the book before attending.) :) ...My first time going to a live channeling.




So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?...

"Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself.:shocked: Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.

Hi Valley,

I agree with you that channeling is possible. However I feel that there is always a static/distortion in the traditional channeling where the information move from a discarnate being to a physical one who transcribes the message in words.

I think that the only time when the static/distortion is decreased to almost nothing is when a person receives the information from his higher-self/god-self. However, beyond that point, even with adequate protection, there is always a certain level of distortion even when the information originates and is transcribed in words by the same person.

So you paid 10 cents for Bringers of the Dawn!!! Really an amazing gift from the universe. I pretty much had the same type of experience than you with this book. It expanded my horizons to unlimited levels considering my very rigid catholic upbringing and my rigorous training in science...This book and the ones that came my way later on helped me understand a lot of things, among which that I was ok (e.i., not crazy)

During the 3 days that I spent with Barbara Marciniak, she did something very interesting. I asked her a question about some information from one of her books. She was in trance and answered my question by quoting word-for-word the passage in her book that I was referring to. She did that over and over with other questions from the audience.

Another interesting thing that I learned from an old friend is that the information in Bringers of the Dawn is not static; meaning that the content of the book could shift to something else. She re-read the book after many years and found some information that she did not see the first time that she read the book... I was able to verify that.

Have a wonderful evening:bigsmile:.

JC

[JChombre]

Good Day, Hombre... Nice to hear your 'side', in this channeling 'divide'. :) That's interesting how she/they could/would recite many passages, word for word while in trance... and how that the info/text in the book may actually be 'morphing' over time. I recently started reading portions of it again, and seemed to notice 'new info' there too. I'm not certain of this, but your comment reinforces my experience. You said you were able to verify some of this?

One other interesting side-note: I went online to research Marciniak, after getting that first book... and found that she just happened to be doing a live channeling event in about a week, and only about an hour drive away from where I was then... I went. (Giving me just enough time to get through the book before attending.) :) ...My first time going to a live channeling.




So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?...

"Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself.:shocked: Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.

Hi Valley,

I agree with you that channeling is possible. However I feel that there is always a static/distortion in the traditional channeling where the information move from a discarnate being to a physical one who transcribes the message in words.

I think that the only time when the static/distortion is decreased to almost nothing is when a person receives the information from his higher-self/god-self. However, beyond that point, even with adequate protection, there is always a certain level of distortion even when the information originates and is transcribed in words by the same person.

So you paid 10 cents for Bringers of the Dawn!!! Really an amazing gift from the universe. I pretty much had the same type of experience than you with this book. It expanded my horizons to unlimited levels considering my very rigid catholic upbringing and my rigorous training in science...This book and the ones that came my way later on helped me understand a lot of things, among which that I was ok (e.i., not crazy)

During the 3 days that I spent with Barbara Marciniak, she did something very interesting. I asked her a question about some information from one of her books. She was in trance and answered my question by quoting word-for-word the passage in her book that I was referring to. She did that over and over with other questions from the audience.

Another interesting thing that I learned from an old friend is that the information in Bringers of the Dawn is not static; meaning that the content of the book could shift to something else. She re-read the book after many years and found some information that she did not see the first time that she read the book... I was able to verify that.

Have a wonderful evening:bigsmile:.

JC

Hi Valley,

I'm very happy to hear that you will be attending a Barbara Marciniak workshop. Enjoy her show and the gong in it.

Please let me know how Barbara is doing. I am a little bit concerned about her because I read in a post here that she had a brain tumor. I don't know if this is something new because when I met her a longtime ago, she was not sick but her sister Karen who was also her editor had a brain tumor... So I hope that Barbara is ok.

Many blessings to you and have a wonderful weekend.

JC

[Valley]

Hi JC, You misunderstood... I researched and went to the Marciniak channeling several years ago, right after I found that first book for 10 cents. I do remember the Gong prelude/ceremony from that first event... that was quite a 'kick-off'... and it all seemed quite amazing/monumental to me at the time, as you might imagine. I just looked her up again and see that she's doing a channeling event/workshop in Sedona, AZ towards the beginning of next year, so I think she's doing alright. :)

All the Best...


One other interesting side-note: I went online to research Marciniak, after getting that first book... and found that she just happened to be doing a live channeling event in about a week, and only about an hour drive away from where I was then... I went. (Giving me just enough time to get through the book before attending.) :) ...My first time going to a live channeling.




So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?...

"Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself.:shocked: Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.


JC

Hi Valley,

I'm very happy to hear that you will be attending a Barbara Marciniak workshop. Enjoy her show and the gong in it.

Please let me know how Barbara is doing. I am a little bit concerned about her because I read in a post here that she had a brain tumor. I don't know if this is something new because when I met her a longtime ago, she was not sick but her sister Karen who was also her editor had a brain tumor... So I hope that Barbara is ok.

Many blessings to you and have a wonderful weekend.

JC

[Ron Mauer Sr]

At the beginning of each session, is Barbara still doing 12 hits on the Tibetan bell, one for each of the 7 chakras inside the body and then 5 for chakras outside the body?

Years ago, that was the procedure.

We used her procedure at the beginning of our local Monday night meditation group back in the 90's. Great memories of that time period.

[JChombre]

At the beginning of each session, is Barbara still doing 12 hits on the Tibetan bell, one for each of the 7 chakras inside the body and then 5 for chakras outside the body?

Years ago, that was the procedure.

We used her procedure at the beginning of our local Monday night meditation group back in the 90's. Great memories of that time period.


Hi Ron,

I met her in late 90s, I think in 1999 because her third book was just out. And at that time she used a big gong like the one that used to be in The Gong Show. She was not using the Tibetan bells then. But she used the gong in the procedure that you described. The vibration of that gong reached every cell in my body... and amazing experience that I still remember to this day. I considered getting a gong but it was quite expensive... Yes those are indeed some very good memories.

Many blessings to you.

JC

[JChombre]

Hi JC, You misunderstood... I researched and went to the Marciniak channeling several years ago, right after I found that first book for 10 cents. I do remember the Gong prelude/ceremony from that first event... that was quite a 'kick-off'... and it all seemed quite amazing/monumental to me at the time, as you might imagine. I just looked her up again and see that she's doing a channeling event/workshop in Sedona, AZ towards the beginning of next year, so I think she's doing alright. :)

All the Best...


One other interesting side-note: I went online to research Marciniak, after getting that first book... and found that she just happened to be doing a live channeling event in about a week, and only about an hour drive away from where I was then... I went. (Giving me just enough time to get through the book before attending.) :) ...My first time going to a live channeling.




So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?...

"Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself.:shocked: Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.


JC

Hi Valley,

I'm very happy to hear that you will be attending a Barbara Marciniak workshop. Enjoy her show and the gong in it.

Please let me know how Barbara is doing. I am a little bit concerned about her because I read in a post here that she had a brain tumor. I don't know if this is something new because when I met her a longtime ago, she was not sick but her sister Karen who was also her editor had a brain tumor... So I hope that Barbara is ok.

Many blessings to you and have a wonderful weekend.

JC

Thank you for the clarification. Ah! She will be in Sedona, in my neighborhood then! I may drive there to see her. So you experience her gong too!
Thanks again.
JC

[Valley]

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/smilies/0508%20Bowing.gifSure thing... Have a nice 'journey'. Yeah, that gong was powerful... never experienced anything like that before... I imagined that the P's were 'beaming in' on those intense and cascading sound waves, and like you said, it felt like those penetrating vibrations were rattling every cell in my body. I'd like to find another gong like that too. :)
Blessings...



Thank you for the clarification. Ah! She will be in Sedona, in my neighborhood then! I may drive there to see her. So you experience her gong too!
Thanks again.
JC

[Twelve]

After some contemplation and turning within for guidance, I've realized (remembered might be the more appropriate word) that there are clear ways by which we can evaluate the genuineness of a spiritual message (whether channeled or not):

1) Does it focus only on positive, beautiful, loving concepts and practices while ignoring or purposefully diminishing all forms of negativity? If so, it is very likely disinformation and a new age spiritual trap. That's because the essence of true spirituality is to bring the darkness (fear, hatred, anger etc.) to the light of awareness and not keep it unconscious and hidden, which is what gives it power to keep us down. In ultimate truth it has no power since it is an illusion, but simply saying it's an illusion and ignoring it does nothing but keep it firmly in control of our consciousness since at an unconscious level we believe it has power and that belief has endowed it with power (albeit illusory power in the truest sense), because we are powerful creators and we collectively create our reality based on our deep unconscious beliefs. Given this, the best and truest spiritual messages call upon us to not hide from the darkness or pretend it's not there, but to look at it with the non-judgmental light of awareness and transmute it.

2) Does it directly or indirectly move us toward abdicating our responsibility and power to some greater power outside of us? If so, it is very likely disinformation. The essence of a true spiritual message is that it returns our minds and spirit to their rightful place as powerful creators, and reminds us that we are never victims and always have the power to evolve our own consciousness. Anything that points to anywhere other than ourselves for ultimate healing and growth is misleading us. That doesn't mean that things that are seemingly external can't help us (eg. more evolved beings, ancient energy sites, sacred plants, crystals and a host of other things), but the important thing is that throughout this the attitude is maintained that whatever is seemingly external to us is not giving us something that we are lacking, but rather simply helping us awaken to our true reality that we are blocking ourselves off from, and it is helping us to awaken based on the call from our spirit that we want this and are willing to allow it to help us help ourselves. This attitude keeps us 100% responsible, and anything seemingly external to us is seen as an aid we called upon, and not something greater and superior to us that is here to be our savior due to our own weakness and inadequacy.

3) Does it highlight differentiation, individuality, or specialness? If so, it is very likely disinformation. The essence of a true spiritual message highlights not only the inherent interconnectedness of everything, but that in reality (beyond the illusion) everything is actually one. Individuality or specialness is at the heart of the illusion of separation, and while specialness can be made to seem like something worthy (like being a special person with special gifts of healing to offer the world), at the base of it is always separation, because it leads away from our shared identity as oneness and the recognition that in oneness there can be no specialness. It is all the same- undifferentiated infinite love. Of course in form there are many differences that are obvious, and people have different talents and abilities that they have developed over one or many lifetimes. But the idea is that the attitude of specialness not be applied on the level of the Mind, which is where the true cause of everything lies.


After contemplating these 3 indications, it dawned on me that even messages of disinformation based on them can be used as useful stepping stones. For instance, the school of positive thinking would lie under #1 in the list above. It ignores all the darkness within and without and effectively keeps it alive and powerful in the unconscious realm which largely directs our lives. However, it produces the wonderful benefit of getting someone who is entrenched in victim based thinking to take responsibility of their own thoughts and learn that they create their reality. This is a first, and very important step needed on every spiritual path. Similarly, teachings that point to something beyond ourselves as our savior can be a stepping stone for someone who is so entrenched in depression that they've lost all hope. Regained hope can act as that first spark that then leads them to "truer" spiritual paths. And same with someone who looks to develop mystical skills to feel special and gain a sense of reverence and recognition from others, and then learns to transcend that ego need by the very use of the mystical skills and what they teach him or her.

So ultimately, anything can be used by our higher self to lead us to true spiritual advancement. Even disinformation (which always has some elements of truth as mentioned by many others on this thread) can be used for our higher good if that is our ultimate intent and purpose. However, for those that have reached a point where they want to advance truly and deeply, I think the above 3 points can help in discerning truth from disinformation, while of course always listening to your own inner knowingness.

This is more of a reminder to myself than anything else, since I'm the one who started this post asking how to discern between the false and the true, but I thought I would share it if it can help others too.

Much love,

Twelve

[TargeT]

So ultimately, anything can be used by our higher self to lead us to true spiritual advancement

Yup, you just have to be careful; if you ever think you are "finished" or have found "the source" of info or ever quit searching and questioning then you are caught in a thought trap, an eddy.

This is not suppose to be an easy thing (though it is not very difficult you can relax and go with it), a lot of it is just letting go.

[Twelve]

Having mentioned the signs to look for to evaluate how genuine a spiritual message is in my above post, I must add that recently I have discovered Bashar (here is a good intro from an interview with the Channel of Bashar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-SlpeSFuv8), and I have to say that the information shared resonates deeply with me and also meets all of the basic signs of genuineness with flying colors. I highly recommend that people explore it to see if it's something that makes sense to them.

[bettye198]

Without offense, we all grow at a pace we can handle. If we fall into religion or atheism or activism or new ageism, its a step. For me, New Age was big time for about 3 decades. All the writings, channelers, books, videos, seminars. Name it, I was involved with my husband. Then, something happened. I realized all the fluff was not real to me. That we are in a place here that cannot change because of the abject control and history of territorial rule. It goes wayyy beyond the Illuminati. When we both came to the conclusion that New Age was part of the agenda to go to that accepting place, to keep surrendering and focus on a rescue ( most of New Age denotes that via Saints, Alien ships, Commanders of Ashtar, Michael the Archangel, etc.)then we are pliable and our mind constructs available for more programming. We decided that its all about us, our Creator and our Higher selves. No intermediary. If you noticed, all the channelers plummeted our consciousness from the Harmonic Convergence to the next decade, then blanko, nothing. It was a rushed agenda to confuse and deliberately make us airy fairy. This is my opinion, so I hope not to offend. I believe that is a belief system one grows into. So I gave away all my books and I focused on elevating my own DNA. I blessed those who thought they were bringing in pure info, but manipulation is on many high levels I have learned. This was a hard lesson for me personally but it freed me from metaphysical bookstores and candle burning and chants and affirmations and all the rest. It brought me to an awareness of who I really was, not a person who needed rescuing and reliving old past incarnations. I went through the gammit of Egypt, Native America, Lemuria, Atlantis, all of it that had darkness there and manipulation there as well. I see myself as an angelic human who just wants to work on myself, my Chakras which are under seige by the very nature of living here, and elevate my energies for transport to a higher realm. It is a very sacred journey to awareness which constitutes independence, not dependence.

[swoods_blue]

I don't think aliens would be using all the slang and sometime backwoods colloquialisms or making the stupid jokes for starters.



Rubbishing something off due to your own lack of understanding isn't really the best thing to do. I understand where you're coming from but how on earth do you know that real channelled information wouldn't use colloquialisms and stupid jokes? After all it's probably that if it is real and does exist, the ideas would come in to the mind in form as knowledge and would still have to be expressed through the human, in the humans terms.

Agreed, MorningFox. I find the jests, teasing and colloquialisms in Marciniaks' material to be reassuring. At the least, I'm pretty sure it's not coming from an A.I., LOL. But it's never malicious stuff. The energies Marciniak is channelling are also clearly fairly psychic -- there are numerous examples of picking up on unspoken thoughts in the room, and drawing them out into the open. (Unless the audience is in on the supposed "hoax", too, and then it's got to be the most elaborate use of talented actors for no conceivable gain in history). The use of slang, while in trance, is no more surprising than the use of any other bits of English. Why would anyone assume the channeled entity/entities only learned Oxford grammar? The Ps seem to be able to access anything Barbara knows, but it usually feels like they're "looking up" that information.

I don't know with certainty if she's a fraud or not. But if she is, then it's a stupendous performance, relying on an incredibly detailed memory for lies told years and years before. What I do know is that I find the messages, overall, to be quite uplifting. But I'm always trying to test it, and refuse to trust any source completely.

[lunaflare]

I like this line found in Twelve's (lengthy) post ..So ultimately, anything can be used by our higher self to lead us to true spiritual advancement Well said.
The Pleiadians are very much a reality in Australian Aboriginal culture. They are also known as The Seven Sisters.
These Star People are thought of as ancestors- with themes of interbreeding with humans and imparting certain knowledge. I am not sure whether they are thought to be "good" or "bad"...but do they exist? Yes. Steven and Evan Strong have compiled research having spent time with Aboriginal elders. Elders have explained the significance and meaning of certain artefacts and cave paintings