Turkey shoots down Russian jet near Syrian border

[giovonni]

http://cdn-01.independent.ie/incoming/article34228722.ece/0868b/ALTERNATES/h342/Turkey-Plane_3508262d.jpg

Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/turkey-shoots-down-jet-near-border-with-syria)


Related video story ...


A Russian jet has been shot down after reportedly violating Turkish airspace near the Syrian border. Report by Asana Greenstreet.

Published on Nov 24, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrQkdTHGHw

[Ewan]

Although my first thought was Barzani ooc, another comment noted elsewhere, (zerohedge), mentioned cui bono and asked who just lost a cheap source of oil.

Either way it's not good.

[ZooLife]

If this be a tit, what will be the tat?

Stay tuned....

[idiit]

If this be a tit, what will be the tat?

it will be a tough titty said the kitty.

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M01b886b0affe0aec7acc035cf7a95481H0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

[Tesseract]

What has been reported so far (not confirmed):

One pilot has been killed, and the body is in the custody of Syrian rebels. Cause of death is unclear.
Other pilot ejected, fate currently unknown, but some reports that he has been captured.
Rescue helicopter(s) may have been fired upon during rescue operation

Turkey claims jet was shot down by F-16s after air-space violation
Russia claims jet was over Syria at all times
(note: it appears this incident occurred over or near a piece of land claimed by both Turkey and Syria)

Lavrov has cancelled trip to Turkey which was planned for wednesday the 25th of November
Special NATO meeting has been called by Turkey
Russian spokesman has called for patience on the matter

[Cidersomerset]

Now the zionist neo -con , anglo - saxon , ottoman & 'oil' coalition have nicely got
there little NATO ducklings following ' Uncle Sam' Duck are they ready to escalate
incidents against 'Mother Russia' Duck ?? Or just an accident in the fog of war ?

http://www.michiganautoaccidentinjuryadvocate.com/files/2014/07/ducks-crossing-the-highway.jpg


==================================================

Russian Su-24 fighter jet downed over Syria, parachute seen in sky

UVbnUOhVQZI

Published on 24 Nov 2015

A Russian Su-24 fighter has been shot down in Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry
said, adding the plane hadn’t violated Turkish airspace and was flying at an
altitude of 6,000 meters.

===================================================

Russian press convoy attacked with AT missile at Syria-Turkey border

4CcEgnofcoA

Published on 24 Nov 2015

Convoy with Russian journalists was hit by an anti-tank missile coming from a rebel-
controlled area some 2.5 km away. RT’s Roman Kosarev sustained a concussion
while RT Arabic’s Sargon Hadaya was injured by pieces of shrapnel in his back and leg.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air



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http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.93.13/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Turkey 'shoots down Russian warplane on Syria border'


44 minutes ago

From the section Middle East


The Turkish military has reportedly shot down a Russian military aircraft on the
border with Syria.Russia's defence ministry said an Su-24 had crashed on Syrian
territory after being hit by fire from the ground, and that its pilots had managed to
eject.But Turkish military officials said Turkish F-16s had shot down the plane after
repeatedly warning its pilots they were violating Turkish airspace.

Video showed the jet crashing in a rebel-held area of Latakia province.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34907983


====================================================

[Cidersomerset]

LIVE: RT special coverage of Russian warplane downed over Syria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw-nBmsng1Q

Started on 24 Nov 2015

A Russian Su-24 fighter has been shot down in Syria, the Russian Defense
Ministry said, adding the plane hadn’t violated Turkish airspace and was
flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters.

[Cidersomerset]

Russian Su-24 Fighter Bomber Shot Down By Turkey On Syrian Border

By ickonic on 24th November 2015 David's Picks, New World Order, War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Untitled21.jpg


http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/themes/magazine/images/21-LOGO-230x115.png

BREAKING: Russian Su-24 Fighter Bomber Shot Down By Turkey On Syrian Border

November 24, 2015 By 21wire 2 Comments


21st Century Wire says…

This is certainly not good…

‘Russian Defense Ministers maintain that Russia did not violate Turkish
airspace and has mission data to prove this is the case. It’s confirmed
that the plane came down in Syrian territory. Although reports indicate
the Russian plane was shot down from the ground, Turkey is claiming
that its own F16 fighter intercepted and shot down the Russian aircraft.

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan was briefed and Prime Minister Ahmet
Davutoglu ordered consultations with NATO, and the United Nations.
Regardless of how you look at this incident, the fact that Turkey, a
NATO member, would knowingly shoot down a Russian fighter jet
involved in operations against ISIS and al Nusra (al Qaeda) terrorists
– is defacto proof that Turkey is not only coordinating with terrorist
paramilitary forces on the ground, but is effectively providing counter
air defense for the terrorist forces on the ground.’

Read more: Russian Su-24 Fighter Bomber Shot Down By Turkey On Syrian Border

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/11/24/breaking-russian-su-24-fighter-bomber-shot-down-by-turkey-on-syrian-border/

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/A-Syria.jpg

===================================================
===================================================
===================================================



Former US Ambassador to Syria: Russia Culpable for Paris Attacks Because It Supports Assad

By David Icke on 24th November 2015


http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/robert.ford_-1078x516.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russian Insider...

‘We’re not going to spend too much time harping on the lunacy that came out of
Ambassador Robert Ford’s mouth-hole during a recent interview with The Daily
Beast. But here’s his “argument”, if you can even call it that:

Former Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford is skeptical that the Russians are really
changing their stance about Assad, and as long as Assad is in place, the armed
opposition will not mobilize to fight against the Islamic State.

Ha-ha, see? Russia refuses to violently depose Assad, which means that US-
backed “moderate” rebels are so busy fighting Assad — and “surrendering” their
weapons to ISIS — that they have no time to fight ISIS! Ergo, Russia “doesn’t care
about Paris”, and has even enabled the Islamic State!’

Read more: Former US Ambassador to Syria: Russia Culpable for Paris Attacks
Because It Supports Assad


http://russia-insider.com/en/brain-dead-former-us-ambassador-support-assad-proves-russia-doesnt-care-about-paris-attacks/ri11360

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Wikileaks: Hillary Clinton Claims Saudi Arabia is the Largest Donor to ‘Sunni Terrorists’ Worldwide

By David Icke on 24th November 2015 War and Terror

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Untitled-323.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.almasdarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/logo_x11.png


http://i2.wp.com/www.almasdarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/CUMza4ZWEAAaVu4.jpg?zoom=2&resize=702%2C336

Wikileaks: Hillary Clinton Claims Saudi Arabia is the Largest Donor to “Sunni Terrorists” Worldwide

By Leith Fadel on November 23, 2015


Wikileaks has struck again; this time, they have revealed a U.S. government cable
sent from the former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, to the U.S. Treasury office
that specifically alluded to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia’s substantial financial
donations to international terrorist groups fighting the U.S. Armed Forces.

According to an introductory cable that discussed Saudi Arabia’s background:

“Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni
terrorist groups worldwide.”

Secretary of State Clinton followed this statement up with the following:

“Continued senior level USG engagement is needed to build-on initial efforts and
encourage the Saudi government to take more steps to stem the flow of funds from
Saudi Arabia-backed sources to terrorists and extremists worldwide.”’

Read more: Wikileaks: Hillary Clinton Claims Saudi Arabia is the Largest Donor
to ‘Sunni Terrorists’ Worldwide

http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/wikileaks-hillary-clinton-claims-saudi-arabia-largest-donor-sunni-terrorists-worldwide/

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================


Flashback Septenber 5th 2014 – ISIS: McCain says everyone in the National
Security Team recommended arming ISIS

By David Icke on 24th November 2015

http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Untitled-420.jpg

ISIS : McCain says everyone in the National Security Team recommended arming ISIS (Sept 05, 2014)
OMjw2OeLAKk

[syrwong]

It is Turkey this time. Turkey is taking downing the mask and telling the world pretense is over.
It may have been another country that was directly responsible in bombing the Russian airline, but to Putin they are the same one. Would he tolerate the terrorism and humiliation?

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/2.93.13/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Turkey downing of Russia jet 'stab in the back' - Putin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34913173

[Cidersomerset]

Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices

7343nXyGS0s

Streamed live on 24 Nov 2015

The Russian President is making a statement on the Russian Su-24 warplane
recently downed over Syria after meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah in Moscow.

==================================================
==================================================
==================================================

‘Turkey wants to drag NATO in a kind of collision course with Russia’ – Ali Rizk

KVwarq0_3CU

Published on 24 Nov 2015

A Russian warplane has gone down near the Turkish-Syrian border after an apparent
attack. Turkish and Russian sources have given conflicting reports about the incident,
which has the potential to escalate the tension between Russia and NATO member Turkey.
Ali Rizk, expert on Middle East affairs, talks to RT



=================================================
=================================================
=================================================

Not only Ankara backs Daesh but offers also logistical support - Pepe Escobar

ZvW0CvFYueA

Published on 24 Nov 2015


A Russian warplane has gone down near the Turkish-Syrian border after an apparent
attack. Turkish and Russian sources have given conflicting reports about the incident,
which has the potential to escalate the tension between Russia and NATO member Turkey.

[Morbid]

turkey moved the border illegally in 2012 into syria with blessings from above. so they will claim that its their territory. though militants using it to regroup from russian air raids.. its upto world's media now to take a stance to shape the public opinions. something tells me turkey (nato) wont move a finger unless being told so from within higher echelons of world's control.. will see how this unfolds. russian public is on the brink of patience with such injustice..

[Bubu]

Its expected that the mafia will stop at nothing. They don't care if multitude of people are killed. I mean that's what they want to murder as many people. Russia should be targeting individuals starting from the highest ranking mafia well that's what Putin said they will go after the owners of the dog. Its the only solution. As long as these bastards are there they will cause chaos.

[Tesseract]

If this incident doesn't open the eyes of the blind, nothing will. Turkish leaders were caught plotting a false flag strike on their own country in order to create a justification for sending ground troops into Syria, fortunately the plot was revealed thanks to a secret recording which as far as I know has not been proven to be false. The Turkish facilitation of terrorist access to Syria has been so obvious that even the mainstream western press has been asking questions about it. And then you have the allegations of illegal oil trading with IS. This is against a backdrop of a country that recently killed its own people in the streets as they protested the government (to zero cries for reform from the west), and kills Kurds with more enthusiasm than even Saddam Hussein under the joint Iraq-USA chemical weapons program. Well, this incident did not happen in a dark room, it was a real and documented event for everyone to see. The real nature of the Turkish government has been exposed. Let's see how they try and hold up the facade.

In addition, now we have video of the 'moderate' Syrian rebels screaming religious slogans like fanatics in the moments of this attack and the aftermath, moderates that shot dead (disputed) the descending pilots (which I believe is a war crime) and which then (allegedly) blow up the rescue helicopter with a Raytheon, US supplied TOW missile. Not that most intelligent people had a lot of faith in their moderation, given their free selling of ammunition to IS, eating people's hearts and so on.

[Hod8]

I don't like this but if Turkey had joined in the fight against ISIS, Russia would be an unofficial ally.
Turkey has very selfish interests. They are best positioned militarily, ground troops and equipment, to destroy ISIS but will not move because of the Kurdish issue.
Russia, keep your damn aircraft out of Turkish airspace.

[sunshaker]

Now why would Turkey shot down a Russian plane?

Is it because russia does not warn ISIS before they attack?

The Obama White House is giving ISIS a 45 minute warning before bombing their oil tankers by dropping leaflets advising potential jihadists to flee before air strikes in Syria.
31998

Evidence also continues to emerge that ISIS is receiving support from state sponsors of terror like Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
$800,000,000 worth of ISIS oil has been sold in Turkey, a supposed U.S. ally. ISIS trucks are routinely allowed to cross back and forth between the Islamic State stronghold of Raqqa and Turkey, while the NATO country facilitates black market oil sales on behalf of the terror group.
As Nafeez Ahmed documents, a large cache of intelligence recovered from a raid on an ISIS safehouse this summer confirms that “direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking ISIS members was now ‘undeniable.’”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/white-house-gave-isis-45-minute-warning-before-bombing-oil-tankers.html

[pyrangello]

I think somebody needs to create a flow chart of the who's who and whats going on and who's backing who. If someone on the forum has that talent it would be so helpful to understand what is going on because at this point I really don't trust anything that's going on especially if the media is reporting it.

[MorningSong]

It is mind-boggling, isn't it?

I lost track of who's who and who's doing what against whom back a few decades..... but the CHAOS that is going on NOW is the winner, that's for sure!

WW3 equals everyone against everyone, mi sa!

[Rocky_Shorz]

Putin's words... "The loss we suffered today came from a stab in the back by accomplices of the terrorists'"

Obama... "My top priority is going to be to ensure that this does not escalate"

Turkish defense attache in Moscow summoned to Defense Ministry...

Russia violated Turkey airspace for 17 seconds with a plane moving 243 miles per hour...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUl-VWuW4AA4sZS.jpg

Turkey raising black flag of #ISIL by shooting down Russian plane – expert link (http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151124/1030679775/turkey-su24-russia-syrian-airspace.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2F7P8XJJDXQB&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=agQq&utm_campaign=URL_shortening)

"French international relations expert Jean-Vincent Brisset and parliamentary deputy Gilbert Collard told Sputnik that the downing of the Russian warplane while fighting ISIL terrorists is an indicator about the priorities of the Turkish government, which has shown little support for fighting terrorism in neighboring Syria.

Shooting down a Russian airplane in Syria was an act of support for the Islamic State terrorists being targeted by Russian airstrikes, Gilbert Collard, deputy for France's Front National party, told Sputnik on Tuesday.

"I consider the fact that a Russian plane was hit, while fighting the Islamic State is a recognition of the state Turkey is now in," said Collard.

"Turkey destroyed people and a plane that were fighting the Islamic State. In doing so, it chose its side, and that is the side of terrorists."

"Turkey can call for an extraordinary meeting, but that doesn't change the fact that in the fight against terrorists, you have to pick your allies. Unfortunately, Turkey has not done that."

Jean-Vincent Brisset, international relations expert from the French Institute for International and Strategic Affairs (IRIS), said that the reaction of Turkey is now critical.

"The Turks have been more aggressive to the Kurds than to the Islamic State. Now, when everybody is talking about forming coalitions and talking about cooperation, it is necessary to define a common enemy."

"I think that the Russians have conducted themselves well enough to avoid serious confrontation. The time has come to the put cards on the table: either we are with the Russians and the other members of the coalition fighting the Islamic State, or its foul play."

"I suggest that now Erdogan is obliged to either openly support the Islamic State, or proclaim neutrality and not take any more actions against those who are fighting the Islamic State." link (http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151124/1030679775/turkey-su24-russia-syrian-airspace.html#ixzz3sQvaEQ7B)

the Kurds have been saying this all along, why would we listen to a 40 year US ally?

dump Turkey from NATO!!!

it just got real...

Russian Defense Ministry says "Every #Turkey plane will be downed upon entering #Russia
airspace."

Kurdistan just named Northern Iraq as Russian Airspace...

[Cidersomerset]

http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/themes/magazine/images/21-LOGO-230x115.png

Putin Throws Down The Gauntlet To Turkey’s Erdogan Over Downed Russian Jet

November 24, 2015 By 21wire 15 Comments


SEE ALSO: Russian Su-24 Fighter Bomber Shot Down By Turkey On Syrian Border

21st Century Wire says…

Earlier today, it’s reported that a NATO Turkish F16 aircraft shot down a Russian Su-24
Fighter Bomber with an air-to-air missile near the Syria-Turkish border. It is the first
time that a NATO fighter has downed a Russian combat aircraft since the start of the
Cold War nearly 70 years ago.

Read More...

lKR7k-nf7u8


http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/11/24/putin-throws-down-the-gauntlet-to-turkeys-erdogan/



http://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Untitled22.jpg

[Ewan]

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," who said that?

Turkish PM Erdogan in 2012 that's who.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18584872

[Rocky_Shorz]

Russia's rescue helicopter was shot down...

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/heli-621677.jpg

Military contact has been cut between Russia and Turkey...

Turkey just sent an urgent message

"

The two Russian pilots of the downed Su-24 warplane are still alive and Turkey is working to secure their release from Syrian rebels, a Turkish government official told Reuters.

“Our units, who received the information that the two pilots were alive, are working to get them from opposition rebels safely,” he stressed."

[Rocky_Shorz]

is NATO preparing to give a large Turkey to Russia for Thanksgiving? Don't forget to toss in a few Baked hams for Putin and his friends in Israel and isis...


"Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destory any target posing danger" link (https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/)

https://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.11/original/5654afa1c4618819768b45cd.jpg

[Sophocles]

In this clip from LiveLeak titled "Syrian rebels release a video of a dead Russian pilot (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=425_1448360570)" it sound like the word "Russian" is uttered among them.

NATO is still on Turkeys side, says Stoltenberg (link in norwegian (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/1.12670753)).

Foreign Policy: Erdogan’s Deadly Ambitions (http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/09/21/erdogans-deadly-ambitions-turkey-elections-president/)

To me it now looks like Stoltenbergs last finger pointing at Russia for having violated Turkeys airspace in October could have been a pretext to what happened today. He just referred to his last statements in kind of a I-told-you-so -manner and urged all parties to stay calm.

[Rocky_Shorz]

looks like News outlets will be able to use the same headline twice this week...

Obama Pardons Turkey!!!

[Flash]

looks like News outlets will be able to use the same headline twice this week...

Obama Pardons Turkey!!!

Erdogan is more corrupt than the most corrupt, more than most of his predecessors (which says a lot, because they were extremely corrupt)if money and personal benefits are involved, he will do anything. Making his own country dive into war has no weight for him, it does not matter, as long as the power play he thinks he can play goes on.

He must have gotten so much money from the ISIS oïl grab that he won't want to let go - and Sunni to Sunni Muslims you see.


My personal opinion. I may be barred from Turkey lolllll.

[avid]

During the shouting and gloating in the Liveleaks videos released from these murderous terrorists, they kept saying "mujahideen" meaning jihadists.
I find this whole scenario riddled with corruption by the Erdogan regime. They are now shouting for NATO, just like a young naughty child shouting for its mother to absolve its wrong-doings. Why would Turkey shoot down their co-workers trying to do the same job as they are supposed to be doing? The whole scenario stinks, and implicated are the behind-the-scenes NATO states, covertly creating war for profit, and long-term resources via asset-stripping.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Syrian rebels reply to Turkey's request to get the Russian pilots back...

both were killed...

they want NATO to join and fight the "evil" Russians who are bombing them into the stone ages...


Erdogan's latest, he says he shot down the Russian plane because they were attacking Kurdish fighters...

these are the Kurdish fighters Erdogan is bombing...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUlsCG4WsAAJJPZ.jpg

[Althena]

One lone Turkish cowboy is all it takes to start yet another war, what a mess...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Russia Published flight map, this plane had just finished destroying Turkey's oil tankers...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUm0gf8UEAAVjji.jpg

Erdogan's Son owns the maritime transport company hauling oil to Japan

these are his trucks...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUMCV8BU8AA7JBF.jpg

Erdogan is just trying to protect the family business...

and this corrupt sheep humper is asking NATO to step in and help?

this isn't about protecting Turkish interest, Erdogans are stealing oil from Iraq and Syria for personal gain...

[Cidersomerset]

MAP: Russian Su-24 crash scheme by defense ministry

9Cs8jdJKSGo

Published on 24 Nov 2015


Russian Defense Ministry demonstrates map of the Su-24M flight which ended in
downing by Turkish F-16 jet. Russian MoD insists the jet didn’t violate Turkish airspace,
while Ankara says the plane crossed into its territory for 17 seconds, leaked document indicates.

LIVE UPDATES: http://on.rt.com/6xew

=========================================================
=========================================================
=========================================================


CrossTalk on downing of Russian military jet: Dangerous Skies
.

OoKk6hOVKJM

Published on 24 Nov 2015


What does the downing of a Russian Air Force jet by Turkey tell us about the war
against the Islamic State? How many sides are there in the conflict? And who
benefits from a very divided front? Is ending the Syrian civil war as elusive as ever?

[Rocky_Shorz]

to end this war by January, it is time for NATO to step in and help Kurdistan seal Turkey's border...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUlmABcW4AAuioM.png

[Tangri]

MAP: Russian Su-24 crash scheme by defense ministry



What does the downing of a Russian Air Force jet by Turkey tell us about the war
against the Islamic State? How many sides are there in the conflict? And who
benefits from a very divided front? Is ending the Syrian civil war as elusive as ever?


Multiple motivation and goals playing at same time. Especially from the posters tail's pain navigates the comments.

They couldn't do it for Ukraine but they will do for their official member Republic of Turkey.
They couldn't do it because lack of consensus with in, now they are conditioning the situation.

Russia is bombing Bayirbucak territory (mostly Turkmen people lives there, not arabic DAESH militans). It is almost impossible bombing that area without violating Turkish borders. It is a casus beli.

A ground to air missile shot that plane (probably by more trained operatives)

I will repeat again, In that area not all rebel groups are belong to ISIS(DAESH) or paid mercenary, most of them, they are fighting for their lives.

Edited for ad:
With basic military knowledge everybody knows ; The best attack for military purpose to a convoy first hit the leader to stop them and hit the rear end to block turn back. And at the war zone , both side must know this principle. 500 trucks hit look likes a suicidal sacrifice for stage.

[Hod8]

Within minutes of shooting down (and filming) a Russian military jet the Turkish government was claiming it did so to protect its own airspace. Russian officials then disputed that claim while the Obama White House quickly sided with Turkey.
The real reason though is something far simpler and sinister and something both the Mainstream Media and the Obama administration doesn't want you to know - money. Namely significant sums of money being pocketed by oddly close allies of the Obama White House via direct dealings with ISIS terrorists.
The Russian fighters were attacking ISIS oil routes that led into Turkey, thus endangering the multi-million dollar agreement between ISIS and the Erdogan regime. Turkey was allowed to shoot down a Russian jet fighter with the assurance it would have the quick support (and thus military backing) of the Obama White House after doing so.
That is exactly what just transpired.
With that information now added to this wicked cauldron of international deceit, add this excerpt from a related D.C. Whispers report:
“It should also be noted that Turkey has now militarily engaged both the Kurds and Russia – the two forces that have most aggressively taken up the fight to defeating ISIS. The Obama administration continues to refuse to adequately arm Kurdish fighters, and openly complains of the increase in Russian influence in that same region.
It’s as if Recep Tayyip Erdogan enjoys leadership of two nations, his own Turkey, and that of the United States via what appears to be considerable influence directed through the vessel known as Barack Hussein Obama.”

[Rocky_Shorz]

And then we have the report stating the military was lying to Obama and Congress on progress in Iraq and Syria

So who really is leading this mess if it isn't Obama...

Erdogans son is shipping stolen oil to Japan...

Guess who just made a trip to Japan when this supply was shut off by Russia

Armitage, the person Ben just went to confront

[Wind]

9TxrbREzg-M

[sigma6]

Its expected that the mafia will stop at nothing. They don't care if multitude of people are killed. I mean that's what they want to murder as many people. Russia should be targeting individuals starting from the highest ranking mafia well that's what Putin said they will go after the owners of the dog. Its the only solution. As long as these bastards are there they will cause chaos.

agreed I'd like to see a war of assassins... and let the headlines be the names of the filthy rich and filthy powerful being taken out every week... they want to live by the sword... (while hiding in bunkers... behind entourages of mercenaries) they should be willing to die by the sword...




excerpt from a related D.C. Whispers report:


“It should also be noted that Turkey has now militarily engaged both the Kurds and Russia – the two forces that have most aggressively taken up the fight to defeating ISIS. The Obama administration continues to refuse to adequately arm Kurdish fighters, and openly complains of the increase in Russian influence in that same region.
It’s as if Recep Tayyip Erdogan enjoys leadership of two nations, his own Turkey, and that of the United States via what appears to be considerable influence directed through the vessel known as Barack Hussein Obama.”
couldn't have said it better... the game is definitely on... maybe this is WWIII... this is how politically correct, cowardly politicians in a world of total media propaganda and mind control effect wars... with an army of media specialists, accountants, spin doctors, and lots of black op mercenaries...

bloody hell where are the high level assassins?... I want to see world leaders shot... not the millions of tax payers that support their parasitical opulent lifestyles...

[Mutchie]

I live in the UK and it's interesting to see how many of my friend's etc think Putin is fighting a just cause while at the same time Obama is totally UNTRUSTED ....Someone is pushing for WW3 ... So is Turkey making money out of ISIS OIL ?

How will RUSSIA RESPOND ???

[Tangri]

I







bloody hell where are the high level assassins?... I want to see world leaders shot... not the millions of tax payers that support their parasitical opulent lifestyles...

You made me laugh.

Do you have any high level assassins in your pocket? Well, I do not have any and even not intend to have one, soon. Probably not any common folks.:Angel:

Then Ask this "who has high level assassins in their expense?" Then ask again "why they will shot their own feet":raining:

[Bubu]

I







bloody hell where are the high level assassins?... I want to see world leaders shot... not the millions of tax payers that support their parasitical opulent lifestyles...

You made me laugh.

Do you have any high level assassins in your pocket? Well, I do not have any and even not intend to have one, soon. Probably not any common folks.:Angel:

Then Ask this "who has high level assassins in their expense?" Then ask again "why they will shot their own feet":raining:

Lets hope that Putin still have some tricks to go after the mafia without putting the common man in the crossfire. If Putin strikes back at turkey there will be another turkey very soon. soon the whole world is involve people killed by the thousands. This is the last thing we want to happen. So lets hope for the best. One thing is sure as long as the mafia is there wars will always be so is it obvious that the best way is to go after the mafia.

[Cidersomerset]

################################

[Morbid]

http://patriotsride.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/nato-swastika.jpg

[idiit]

One thing is sure as long as the mafia is there wars will always be so is it obvious that the best way is to go after the mafia.

^ I posted the same thought on the "it's on" thread. got to get to the master of the dogs that bite.

[idiit]

Turkey was apparently willing to risk sparking a wider conflict between NATO and Russia over a 17 second incursion.


In other words, as Sputnik put it earlier this evening, "according to those numbers, the Su-24 would have had to be flying at stall speed."

The Su-24's max speed is 1,320 km/hour.

So if we assume the Su-24 was actually going much faster, was 17 seconds more like 5 seconds? Or perhaps even less?


Of course Russia wasn't just bombing Turkish civilians for the sheer hell of it. It's likely Moscow was targeting the very same FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who shot and killed the parachuting Russian pilot earlier today.

In short, it looks like Ankara saw an opportunity to shoot down a Russian jet in retaliation for strikes on Turkish rebel fighters who are operating alongside anti-Assad forces. Erdogan is essentially gambling that Russia will not retailiate militarily against Turkey because doing so would open the door for a direct confrontation with NATO.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/17-seconds-changed-world-leaked-letter-exposes-turkeys-hair-trigger-reality

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The Russian General Staff said that, according to preliminary data, one of the Su-24 pilots has died after being fired at from the ground.


The Russian General Staff said that, according to preliminary data, one of the Su-24 pilots has died after being fired at from the ground.

* * *

According to the Geneva Convention attacks on persons parachuting from an aircraft in distress are stricly banned: if the person in distress is not acting in a hostile manner, he is to be given the chance to surrender after reaching the ground.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media

[Sungazerer]

This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

[idiit]

Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

galactic historian Andrew bartzis said several times that we would know "the event" is near ( imminent) when the cabal is shown for all to see who they really are. it's getting pretty obvious. also, bartzis stated "the event" is imminent when you see thousands take to the streets protesting. that is happening despite msm's attempt to cover it up with false flags, celebrity gossip, sporting event coverage, etc...

in the latest bases 53 videos 1,2,3 segment grandmother 13 was saying that the sun is going dark. they are watching the sun very closely. the sun will go dark for three days and if we protect our dna ( underground pits for the indigenous natives already built) our dna will go to 12 strand almost overnight and we cease being carbon based. we then are full fledged multidimensional beings with corresponding attributes.

paris, turkey's downing of the Russian jet, revelations on jfk, 911, etc... are appearing every day. me thinks the turkey downing of the Russian jet is just another sign "the event" is near.

[Ikarusion]

in the latest bases 53 videos 1,2,3 segment grandmother 13 was saying that the sun is going dark. they are watching the sun very closely. the sun will go dark for three days and if we protect our dna ( underground pits for the indigenous natives already built) our dna will go to 12 strand almost overnight and we cease being carbon based. we then are full fledged multidimensional beings with corresponding attributes.

wait, you lost me here. so the sun will soon go dark for 3 days and if we go underground for that period we cease being carbon based life forms?
this sounds pretty out there. where you got that from? i want to understand.

the sun is good. if it would "turn off" my impuls would be to get some somehow, instead of hiding from non existent sunshine.
or is it kinda switching polarity and blasting us with death rays? who comes up with this stuff? where we told that by aliens?

again, you lost me. :)

[Hervé]

NATO Orders Stool-Pigeon Turkey to Shoot Down Russian Jet (http://www.sott.net/article/307145-NATO-Orders-Stool-Pigeon-Turkey-to-Shoot-Down-Russian-Jet#)

Joe Quinn
Sott.net (http://www.sott.net/article/307145-NATO-Orders-Stool-Pigeon-Turkey-to-Shoot-Down-Russian-Jet#) Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:38 UTC


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284243/full/gas_line_qatar.jpg

Want to know why the Russian Su-24 was shot down yesterday? Read on.

Turkish, Saudi, French, British and US-backed terrorists have been operating in Syria for the past 4 years (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/world/middleeast/arms-airlift-to-syrian-rebels-expands-with-cia-aid.html?_r=0) in an effort to overthrow the Syrian government. This cabal wants to remove Assad in order to a) pave the way for Qatari gas to supplant Russian gas to Europe, b) possibly open up a front for a jihadi invasion to destabilize and pressure Iran and Russia, and c) secure Turkish territorial integrity and its long-term role as a buffer zone for Western powers to play in the Middle East sandbox with impunity.

The overall goal then, from a Western perspective, is to do away with the historical crescent of resistance against Western Imperialism and anti-pan-Arab nationalism as represented or supported by Russia/Iran/Iraq/Syria and Lebanon. Israel, of course, is a major supporter of just such a 'new Middle East' because, without it, it might be wiped from the pages of history as a Jewish state. In this endeavor, Turkey, with its long border with northern Syria, has played a primary role in facilitating the training, arming and funding of jihadi head-chopping mercenaries (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/21/us-mideast-crisis-turkey-arms-idUSKBN0O61L220150521) in their four-year war against the Syrian people and government.

Turkey's Kurdish Problem
After the First World War and the fall of the Ottoman Empire (and its reinvention as Turkey), a fledgling Turkey (!) chose to look primarily towards the West, playing an early divisive role in helping the British and Americans repress a nascent Arab nationalist movement. As part of this process, the Western powers gerrymandered the former Ottoman lands of the Middle East (all the better to exploit the sea of oil on which they happening to be floating), and the Kurds, like several other indigenous peoples of the area, saw their lands and people divided.


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284244/large/Kurdistan_treaty_sevres.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284244/full/Kurdistan_treaty_sevres.jpg)
Kurdistan (shaded area) at the time of the treaty of Sevres (1920) between the Ottoman Empire and the Western Allies


The incorporation of the Kurdish areas of the former East Anatolia into Turkey was opposed by many Kurds who hoped for a homeland of their own. During the 1920s and 1930s several rebellions against Turkish rule took place. These were forcefully put down by the Turkish authorities and the region was declared a closed military area from which foreigners were banned between 1925 and 1965. The use of Kurdish language was outlawed, the words Kurds and Kurdistan were erased from dictionaries and history books, and the Kurds were only referred to as Mountain Turks. Throughout the 1980s and '90s Kurdish separatists also waged a guerrilla war against the Turkish military in which tens of thousands of people died.


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284258/medium/Erdogan_Assad.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284258/full/Erdogan_Assad.jpg)
Erdogan, Assad and their wives in friendlier times in 2009


Beginning in 2003 with the election of Erdogan as Prime Minister, the situation stabilized somewhat, as did Turkish/Syrian relations after the Syrian government pledged to stop harboring Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) militants. Between 2003 and 2009, Syria and Turkey signed nearly 50 agreements of cooperation, announced the establishment of a "Senior Strategic Cooperation Council," and conducted their first-ever joint military exercises. In 2010, Turkey and Syria signed an historic counterterrorism agreement (http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0609/Turkey-s-shift-on-Syria-gives-West-room-to-get-tougher-on-Assad), followed up by a counterinsurgency pact. Turkey had become Syria's largest trading partner and so close was the relationship that, in 2009, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu declared (http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0609/Turkey-s-shift-on-Syria-gives-West-room-to-get-tougher-on-Assad) that the states shared a "common fate, history, and future."

So what happened in the last 6 years? The short answer is that, sometime around 2011, it was made clear to Erdogan's government through NATO channels that Assad would be leaving, one way or another, and that Syria would be divided up into semi-autonomous regions. This plan, as detailed by both the US Brookings Institution in a 2015 paper titled "Deconstructing Syria: A new strategy for America's most hopeless war (http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/order-from-chaos/posts/2015/06/30-deconstructing-syria-ohanlon),"and an op-ed by the President of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) Richard Haas titled "Testing Putin in Syria (https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/testing-putin-syria-military-intervention-by-richard-n--haass-2015-10)", carried the threat of the likely creation of an autonomous Kurdistan, taking with it a sizeable chunk of Turkish territory.

So the Turkish government was faced with a choice: side with NATO in the destruction and dismemberment of Syria and safeguard Turkish territorial integrity, or risk losing it if the Assad government were somehow to prevail against the West's jihadi army. NATO no doubt assured the Turks that the result of such a manufactured civil war in Syria was a foregone conclusion, and no doubt it would have been, had Russia not decided to step into the fray 2 months ago.


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284267/large/Kurdistan_of_Turkey.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284267/full/Kurdistan_of_Turkey.jpg)
What Erdogan fears to lose: Kurdistan in Turkey


The result has been that Turkey has spent the last four years as the primary staging ground for NATO's proxy mercenary army in Syria (http://www.dw.de/is-supply-channels-through-turkey/av-18091048). No one doubts this, not even Western governments. In that role, Turkey has been given free reign to deal with a resurgent Kurdish militancy (PKK, YPG) who are so concerned about their fate in the event of a NATO/Turkish victory in Syria that they have been openly aligning themselves with both Russia and the Syrian government (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/syrias-kurds-are-contemplating-an-aleppo-alliance-with-assad-and-russia).

Direct Turkish Government Links to ISIS in Syria
When US special forces raided the compound of an Islamic State leader in eastern Syria in May this year, hundreds of flash drives and documents were seized revealing undeniable evidence of direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking Isis members. One senior western official familiar (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/isis-syria-turkey-us)with the intelligence gathered said that it could "end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara."

You might be thinking that this unnamed Western official meant that the West (UK, France and the US) would cut ties with the Turks over their alliance with ISIS headchoppers. But you'd be wrong because, 6 months later, there is no sign of any break in Western relations with Turkey. Indeed, just yesterday, British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond accused an opposition Labour MP (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates) of being an "apologist for Russian actions" for having the gall to sort of sympathize with Russia over the Su-24 shoot down.


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284261/full/turkey_supporting_isis_cartoon.jpg

Labour's Dennis Skinner raised questions in Parliament about Turkey's reliability as a British ally and pressed Hammond for his views on Turkey's role against Islamic State. "When you consider that not only today that they've shot down a Russian jet - who are also trying to fight Isil - they're buying oil from Isil in order to prop them up, they're bombing the Kurds who are also fighting Isil." Skinner said.

In response, Hammond insisted that Turkey and the UK and Europe will remain best buddies no matter what. "I see old habits die hard and you remain an apologist for Russian actions. On the question of Turkey, Turkey is an important NATO ally. It holds the key to a number of really very important questions, both in relation to the battle against Isil but also in relation to the migration challenge that Europe faces, and it will remain a very important partner for this country and for the European Union".

One has to wonder here what the French government thinks of a close ally like the UK declaring such unstinting support for Turkey when it has been recently revealed that the alleged mastermind of the recent Paris attacks, Abaaoud, crossed into and out of Syria to learn his trade craft from ISIL via the Jarabulus crossing (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006713/paris-attacks-europe-migrant-crisis-terrorist-abdelhamid-abaaoud.html) in Syria, just 100 m from the Turkish border, which is manned by Turkish border guards and which Erdogan recently claimed was a 'red line' in terms of Russian airstrikes in the area.

Full article: http://www.sott.net/article/307145-NATO-Orders-Stool-Pigeon-Turkey-to-Shoot-Down-Russian-Jet


=====================================

http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284255/full/kurdish_frontline_troops.jpg
Kurdish (YPJ) frontline troops (https://undercoverinfo.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/isis-survives-largely-because-turkey-allows-it-to-the-evidence/)

[Cidersomerset]

###########################

[Hervé]

Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future (http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish-intelligence-chief-putin-s-intervention-in-syria-is-against-islam-and-international-law,-isis-is-a-reality-and-we-are-optimistic-about-the-future)

18 October 2015


http://www.awdnews.com/images/14451661031.jpg
Hakan Fidan


Ankara--- Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known by the MİT acronym, has drawn a lot of attention and criticism for his controversial comments about ISIS.

Mr. Hakan Fidan, Turkish President's staunchest ally, condemned Russian military intervention in Syria, accusing Moscow of trying to 'smother' Syria's Islamist revolution and serious breach of United Nations law.


“ISIS is a reality and we have to accept that we cannot eradicate a well-organized and popular establishment such as the Islamic State; therefore I urge my western colleagues to revise their mindset about Islamic political currents, put aside their cynical mentalité and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush Syrian Islamist revolutionaries,”

Anadolu News Agency quoted Mr. Fidan as saying on Sunday. Fidan further added that in order to deal with the vast number of foreign Jihadists craving to travel to Syria, it is imperative that ISIS must set up a consulate or at least a political office in Istanbul. He underlined that it is Turkey’s firm belief to provide medical care for all injured people fleeing Russian ruthless airstrikes regardless of their political or religious affiliation.

Recently as the fierce clashes between Russian army and ISIS terrorists raging across the war-torn Syria, countless number of ISIS injured fighters enter the Turkish territory and are being admitted in the military hospitals namely those in Hatay Province. Over the last few days, the Syrian army with the support of Russian air cover could fend off ISIS forces in strategic provinces of Homs and Hama.

Emile Hokayem, a Washington-based Middle East analyst said that Turkey's Erdoğan and his oil-rich Arab allies have dual agendas in the war on terror and as a matter of fact they are supplying the Islamist militants with weapons and money, thus Russian intervention is considered a devastating setback for their efforts to overthrow Syrian secular President Assad.

Hokayem who was speaking via Skype from Washington, D.C. highlighted the danger of Turkish-backed terrorist groups and added that what is happening in Syria cannot be categorized as a genuine and popular revolution against dictatorship but rather it is a chaos orchestrated by Erdoğan who is dreaming to revive this ancestor's infamous Ottoman Empire.

==============================


Syria's "déjà vu": Allende... Pinochet?

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I think Bill Holter is correct. Copied from http://www.jsmineset.com/ Nov 24:

The following is how I see it, “in my opinion”. I believe this episode was no mistake and was fully planned. I think the “stress” on the Western financial system is coming to a full blown head and can no longer be hidden like the crazy aunt in the basement. As I have said all along, the collapse when it comes will need “cover” to hide the real and true cause. Starting a war with Russia even as unthinkable and unwinnable for anyone as it is will only serve to cover the foundational policy flaws of the Ponzi scheme.

The West is patently broke. Our standard of living can no longer be “funded” with debt. The current negative swap rates I believe are evidence of a scarcity of collateral …the alternative being banks and brokers truly are a better credit risk than sovereign debt. We also know gold is in scarcity because the negative GOFO rates. If you look to COMEX registered inventories you will see they are almost gone and amount to 150,000 ounces heading into what is the biggest delivery month of the year. The list goes on and on but suffice it to say, no matter where you look you will see things financial and economic either in decline or collapsing. You need to “look” for yourself and past the “headlines” and BLS reportings to understand why “now”.

I have long thought Russia and China had a “truth bomb” up their sleeve to be delivered by Mr. Putin. It has been my opinion he would expose many falsehoods and false flags over the years with hard evidence to back his claims. Now, should we be involved militarily against Russia much of what he has to deliver will be considered “propaganda” no matter how credible the evidence. Thank honest journalism for this.

Standing watch,
Bill Holter
Holter-Sinclair collaboration
Comments welcome bholter@Hotmail.com

[Flash]

The cat has gotten out of his bag (French saying: le chat est sorti du sac), meaning that the true supplyers of arms and receiver of money are out in the open. The Cabal through its Turkish stooges. From one of the most corrupt government Turkey has ever had.

Mustafa Kemal (surnamed Atatürk, the general who fought, in early 20th century, to make Turkey a secular country, to write a constitution and give the army the duty to protect it, and Kemal, who even changed the arabic alphabet for a european one - arabic not being efficient with the language) must be twisting in his coffin! An islamist state, Turkey? It goes against everything he had fought for.

How come the Turkish army is not doing its job, its true job, its duty written in their constitution, which is to protect their country and to protect their constitution?

Pretty similar to what is happening in USA by the way. Loss of constitutional freedom and batardizing of the real constitution in the name of money, corruption and cabal' benefits.

ISIS to have an office in Istanbul: they have Fallen on their head!! This is definitely the demands of Saudi Arabia, another Sunni country, like Turkey.

Most people in Turkey are hard core secular prone, they will not admit this, to have a religious country, I predict numerous street démonstrations in Istanbul and even Ankara, that will be crush by their actual government.

Hokayem, the US analyst, is right in his analysis, he just does not go far enough. The money is going to Swiss bankers and to the Rotchilds and Rockerfeller and those unknown publically by the back door.

Gosh, Erdogan, the Turkish president, his head of security, and all the crass there must have pocketed so much money with this war that it must be pourring out of the bags and spilling all over. Killing in mass for profit!!! don't we have enough of this?

Where is the pride of the Turkish people?


Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future (http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish-intelligence-chief-putin-s-intervention-in-syria-is-against-islam-and-international-law,-isis-is-a-reality-and-we-are-optimistic-about-the-future)

18 October 2015


http://www.awdnews.com/images/14451661031.jpg
Hakan Fidan


Ankara--- Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known by the MİT acronym, has drawn a lot of attention and criticism for his controversial comments about ISIS.

Mr. Hakan Fidan, Turkish President's staunchest ally, condemned Russian military intervention in Syria, accusing Moscow of trying to 'smother' Syria's Islamist revolution and serious breach of United Nations law.


“ISIS is a reality and we have to accept that we cannot eradicate a well-organized and popular establishment such as the Islamic State; therefore I urge my western colleagues to revise their mindset about Islamic political currents, put aside their cynical mentalité and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush Syrian Islamist revolutionaries,”

Anadolu News Agency quoted Mr. Fidan as saying on Sunday. Fidan further added that in order to deal with the vast number of foreign Jihadists craving to travel to Syria, it is imperative that ISIS must set up a consulate or at least a political office in Istanbul. He underlined that it is Turkey’s firm belief to provide medical care for all injured people fleeing Russian ruthless airstrikes regardless of their political or religious affiliation.

Recently as the fierce clashes between Russian army and ISIS terrorists raging across the war-torn Syria, countless number of ISIS injured fighters enter the Turkish territory and are being admitted in the military hospitals namely those in Hatay Province. Over the last few days, the Syrian army with the support of Russian air cover could fend off ISIS forces in strategic provinces of Homs and Hama.

Emile Hokayem, a Washington-based Middle East analyst said that Turkey's Erdoğan and his oil-rich Arab allies have dual agendas in the war on terror and as a matter of fact they are supplying the Islamist militants with weapons and money, thus Russian intervention is considered a devastating setback for their efforts to overthrow Syrian secular President Assad.

Hokayem who was speaking via Skype from Washington, D.C. highlighted the danger of Turkish-backed terrorist groups and added that what is happening in Syria cannot be categorized as a genuine and popular revolution against dictatorship but rather it is a chaos orchestrated by Erdoğan who is dreaming to revive this ancestor's infamous Ottoman Empire.

==============================


Syria's "déjà vu": Allende... Pinochet?

[Hervé]

‘Turkish jets gave us no warning before shooting’ – rescued pilot of downed Russian Su-24 (https://www.rt.com/news/323431-saved-pilot-turkish-su24/)

Published time: 25 Nov, 2015 14:33
Edited time: 25 Nov, 2015 15:34


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.11/original/5655cc23c3618883778b4589.jpg

Rescued pilot of the Russian Air Force's Su-24 jet, Captain Konstantin Murakhtin, center, answers journalists' questions at Khmeimim Air Base in Latakia. © Dmitriy Vinogradov / Sputnik


The navigator of the Russian Su-24 shot down by a Turkish fighter jet on Tuesday insists that his plane did not cross into Turkey’s airspace, and says he was given no visual or radio warning before being fired at.

“It’s impossible that we violated their airspace even for a second,” Konstantin Murakhtin told Russia’s Rossiya 1 channel. “We were flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters in completely clear weather, and I had total control of our flight path throughout.”

As well as denying Ankara’s assertions that the plane was in Turkey’s airspace, Murakhtin also refuted Turkish officials’ claim that the pilots were warned repeatedly.

“In actual fact there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,” said Murakhtin, who is currently recuperating at Russia’s airbase in Latakia, in northern Syria.

“As it was the missile hit the back of our plane out of nowhere. We didn’t even have time to make an evasive maneuver.”


Update:

As the plane was hit and went down in Syria, the two pilots ejected. Captain Sergey Rumyantsev was killed, with a rebel Turkmen brigade claiming they shot him to death while he was still parachuting.

Murakhtin was extracted in a 12-hour joint operation by Russian and Syrian special forces, in which a Russian Marine died.

The 39-year-old airman, who won the Top Navigator award at Russia's biggest military flying competition last year, says he will ask to return to front-line service as soon as he is declared fit.

"I must 'pay back' the debt for my captain," said Murakhtin.

[Flash]

The problem is that the Middle East powder cake, with the Russian history, is much too complex to comprehend for most North American.

To understand what is going on, one needs to understand how the Cabal works, the world Financial system and the history of the region. One have to know Middle East, Russian and Europe history!!! History lessons which haven been taken off American basic curriculum of schooling 15 years ago.

Most people will only see floating lies in front of their eyes, and floating dust. Hopefully, the floating dust particles will be large enough for them to make them doubt their government charade. In USA, China and Russia alike. We have to get away from very corrupted govenrment based decision making on the planet as a whole..

[idiit]

Rescued Russian Pilot Says There Was No Warning Before F-16 Opened Fire

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/turkey-lying-rescued-russian-pilot-says-there-was-no-warning-turkish-f-16-opened-fir

[Redstar Kachina]

..........

[Rocky_Shorz]

Sorcha is dumping on his CIA buddies in this report...

"Moscow Warns CIA, Not Turkey, Downed Russian Fighter Plane Over Syria

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared by the Ministry of Defense (MoD) on the downing of an Aerospace Forces Sukhoi Su-24M bomber aircraft over Syria yesterday states that it was a deliberate act perpetrated by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) who were at the time of this catastrophe “controlling/operating” a Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter jet on a supposed to be photographic reconnaissance mission.

According to this report, under the terms and provisions outlined in the 20 October agreement, whose full name is “The Memorandum of Mutual Understanding between the Defense Ministries of Russia and the United States on preventing incidents and providing for aviation flights during operations in Syria”, Aerospace Forces conducting combat missions in the Levant War Zone over Syria were notified yesterday by US Air Force flight controllers operating out of Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base that a Turkish Air Force F-16 was operating near the Turkey-Syrian border.

US Air Force flight controllers in further clarifying the “purpose/mission” of this Turkish Air Force F-16 flight, this report continues, stated to their Aerospace Forces counterparts that it was conducting a routine photographic reconnaissance flight for intelligence purposes—which this reports notes is always conducted under the direction of the CIA who mission is monitoring arms shipments from Turkey to Islamic State rebels in Syria.

Sensing no threat from this CIA operated Turkish Air Force F-16, this report says, an Aerospace Forces Su-24M bomber returning to its Syrian airbase with its two Sukhoi Su-30 fighter plane escorts “allowed/authorized” them to accelerate towards their base due to low fuel issues and increased its flight altitude to 6,000 meters (19,685 feet) to prevent attacks from ground based fired missiles as per its procedures.

Immediately upon the Su-24M reaching the altitude of 6,000 meters, this report grimly states, and without its Su-30 escorts able to protect it, the CIA directed Turkish Air Force F-16 immediately went to hypersonic speed and fired three air-to-air missiles at the Aerospace Forces “target” destroying this Federation bomber and causing its two pilots, Lieutenant Colonel Oleg Peshkov and Captain Konstantin Murahtin, to safely eject from their now destroyed plane.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZK-ORnY4Aw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpkJrHV-yFE

After safely ejecting from their destroyed bomber plane, this report continues, Lieutenant Colonel Peshkov and Captain Murahtin, when nearing the ground, were then shot at by Islamic State terrorists who in doing so committed a grave war crime—and which killed Lieutenant Colonel Peshkov whose attackers celebrated his death.

Captain Murahtin, however, this report says, was able to be saved when the Su-30 escorts returned and provided covering fire to protect him—and who, also, provided air cover for the Aerospace Forces helicopters sent to rescue him.

Of the three Aerospace Forces helicopters sent to rescue Captain Murahtin however, MoD experts in this report say, one was destroyed by a US missile fired by Islamic State terrorists killing Naval Infantry Soldier (Marine) Alexandr Pozynich.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFPVNceRy3w

With MoD satellite data proving that the Su-24M bomber was about 1,000 meters (3,280 feet) in Syrian airspace when it was shot down, this report continues, Turkey then “absurdly” claimed that it had violated its airspace up to a depth of 2.19 kilometers (1.36 miles) for about 17 seconds and had been warned to change its heading 10 times—which would have been impossible as a normal plane-to-plane single “communication transfer” takes at least 45 seconds to occur.

Also, this report notes, with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stating in 2012 that a “short-term border violation can never be a pretext for attack”, this disaster became even more bizarre when Turkey yesterday, in a letter to the UN Security Council, openly stated that it had shot down the Su-24M and even admitted it had ordered the attack on the rescue mission for the downed pilots.

Though Prime Minister Erdogan has yet to contact President Putin, this report says, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov did discuss this disaster with his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu, who assured Russia that Turkey wants to preserve friendly ties with Moscow, and to which Minister Lavrov replied that the Federation was not planning a war against Turkey.

Based on the MoD analysis in this report though, Foreign Minister Lavrov further stated: “We have serious doubts that this act was unintentional. It looks very much like a preplanned provocation.”

MoD intelligence experts in this report further support Minister Lavrov by noting it was not a coincidence that a Turkish film crew captured this shootdown either as they were most likely tipped off to be at the right place at the right time—a fact undisputed by even American observers.

Critical to note too, this report says, this disaster occurred just days after Turkish officials warned Russia to “immediately end its operation” against these Islamic State terrorists—and which we, in our 23 November report, Putin Declares ISIS On “Brink Of Total Defeat”, Warns NATO War Has Been “Total Lie”, noted the MoD’s grave concerns by stating: “To if the United States led NATO will intervene to protect their Islamic State allies against total defeat and risk World War III with Russia and China, this report warns, is the greatest unanswered question now facing the Federation.”

With the CIA having now plotted with certain elements within Turkey to provoke a larger war, this report concludes, President Putin ordered this morning that the previous agreement with the United States is now suspended and that the much feared S-400 defense missile system will now be deployed to the Hmeymim airbase in Syria—whose missiles have a range of 250 kilometers (155 miles) [the Turkish border, at its closest, is less than 50 miles away], and when combined with the airspace defense provided by the Moskva naval cruiser, will now spell certain death for any other Turkish-CIA-NATO aircraft should they ever again attempt to target a Federation warplane. link (http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1946.htm)

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/rps2.jpg

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/rps1.jpg

[giovonni]

Could Russian submarines cut off the internet ?


http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1400045/russias-president-vladimir-putin.jpg?w=720

Life During Wartime

Talking Heads


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obAtn6I5rbY

[giovonni]

hmm ...

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/C62C/production/_86823705_86823701.jpg

RAF search after 'Russian submarine spotted off Scotland' (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34896956)

[Flash]

rough translation: the Russian heads of state do not hide their anger. Putin ask the russian people to boycott the Turkish beaches because of the "terrorism danger" in the country. - my comment, ouch, this will hurt the Turkish economy, lots of russians there.

The Russian Prime Minister reproached to Turkey its criminal actions, protecting the ISS militants and pocketing direclty from the sales of the petroleum sold by ISIS by the Turkish heads of state.

In other part of the article, François Mitterand, president of France, is asking Turkey to cool it as well.


Et les dirigeants russes ne cachent pas leur colère.

Le président russe Vladimir Poutine, après avoir dénoncé mardi un « coup de poignard dans le dos de la part des complices des terroristes », a appelé ses concitoyens à boycotter les plages turques face au « danger terroriste » dans le pays.

Son premier ministre Dmitri Medvedev a reproché à Ankara ses « actions absurdes et criminelles ». Il a encore accusé la Turquie de « protéger les militants du groupe État islamique » et souligné « l'intérêt financier direct de certains responsables turcs » dans la vente du pétrole brut produit dans des zones contrôlées par les djihadistes.

Les médias russes, indignés par l'attitude d'Ankara, ont toutefois appelé les pouvoirs publics à la prudence face à l'escalade militaire et les risques pour l'économie.http://www.lapresse.ca/international/europe/201511/25/01-4924516-avion-abattu-par-la-turquie-moscou-denonce-une-provocation-planifiee-.php




hmm ...

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/C62C/production/_86823705_86823701.jpg

RAF search after 'Russian submarine spotted off Scotland' (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34896956)


from the article above by Giovonni: We do not discuss the detail of maritime operations."

There have been previous concerns that Russia could be developing plans to have submarines sever key internet communications during future wars, following a spike in its naval activity near the locations of undersea cables.

[giovonni]

Something much bigger than baking a Turkey is happening here ... :)

[Rocky_Shorz]

The cat has gotten out of his bag (French saying: le chat est sorti du sac), meaning that the true supplyers of arms and receiver of money are out in the open. The Cabal through its Turkish stooges. From one of the most corrupt government Turkey has ever had.

Mustafa Kemal (surnamed Atatürk, the general who fought, in early 20th century, to make Turkey a secular country, to write a constitution and give the army the duty to protect it, and Kemal, who even changed the arabic alphabet for a european one - arabic not being efficient with the language) must be twisting in his coffin! An islamist state, Turkey? It goes against everything he had fought for.

How come the Turkish army is not doing its job, its true job, its duty written in their constitution, which is to protect their country and to protect their constitution?

Pretty similar to what is happening in USA by the way. Loss of constitutional freedom and batardizing of the real constitution in the name of money, corruption and cabal' benefits.

ISIS to have an office in Istanbul: they have Fallen on their head!! This is definitely the demands of Saudi Arabia, another Sunni country, like Turkey.

Most people in Turkey are hard core secular prone, they will not admit this, to have a religious country, I predict numerous street démonstrations in Istanbul and even Ankara, that will be crush by their actual government.

Hokayem, the US analyst, is right in his analysis, he just does not go far enough. The money is going to Swiss bankers and to the Rotchilds and Rockerfeller and those unknown publically by the back door.

Gosh, Erdogan, the Turkish president, his head of security, and all the crass there must have pocketed so much money with this war that it must be pourring out of the bags and spilling all over. Killing in mass for profit!!! don't we have enough of this?

Where is the pride of the Turkish people?


Turkish intelligence chief: Putin's intervention in Syria is against Islam and international law, ISIS is a reality and we are optimistic about the future (http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish-intelligence-chief-putin-s-intervention-in-syria-is-against-islam-and-international-law,-isis-is-a-reality-and-we-are-optimistic-about-the-future)

18 October 2015


http://www.awdnews.com/images/14451661031.jpg
Hakan Fidan


Ankara--- Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, known by the MİT acronym, has drawn a lot of attention and criticism for his controversial comments about ISIS.

Mr. Hakan Fidan, Turkish President's staunchest ally, condemned Russian military intervention in Syria, accusing Moscow of trying to 'smother' Syria's Islamist revolution and serious breach of United Nations law.


“ISIS is a reality and we have to accept that we cannot eradicate a well-organized and popular establishment such as the Islamic State; therefore I urge my western colleagues to revise their mindset about Islamic political currents, put aside their cynical mentalité and thwart Vladimir Putin's plans to crush Syrian Islamist revolutionaries,”

Anadolu News Agency quoted Mr. Fidan as saying on Sunday. Fidan further added that in order to deal with the vast number of foreign Jihadists craving to travel to Syria, it is imperative that ISIS must set up a consulate or at least a political office in Istanbul. He underlined that it is Turkey’s firm belief to provide medical care for all injured people fleeing Russian ruthless airstrikes regardless of their political or religious affiliation.

Recently as the fierce clashes between Russian army and ISIS terrorists raging across the war-torn Syria, countless number of ISIS injured fighters enter the Turkish territory and are being admitted in the military hospitals namely those in Hatay Province. Over the last few days, the Syrian army with the support of Russian air cover could fend off ISIS forces in strategic provinces of Homs and Hama.

Emile Hokayem, a Washington-based Middle East analyst said that Turkey's Erdoğan and his oil-rich Arab allies have dual agendas in the war on terror and as a matter of fact they are supplying the Islamist militants with weapons and money, thus Russian intervention is considered a devastating setback for their efforts to overthrow Syrian secular President Assad.

Hokayem who was speaking via Skype from Washington, D.C. highlighted the danger of Turkish-backed terrorist groups and added that what is happening in Syria cannot be categorized as a genuine and popular revolution against dictatorship but rather it is a chaos orchestrated by Erdoğan who is dreaming to revive this ancestor's infamous Ottoman Empire.

==============================


Syria's "déjà vu": Allende... Pinochet?



I was doing some research on the isis consolate, turns out it is in Cankaya, Ankara, not in istanbul...

this is in the financial district of Turkey...

not a good spot for a Russian bullseye


Turkey continues to bring tanks to the syrian border...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUrKCblWoAAEsTh.jpg


Russia just bombed a Turkish aid convoy in Syria, 7 killed...

[Rocky_Shorz]

"Russian Air Force Annihilated Militants In Area Where Su-24 Was Shot Down. Erdogan Ordered Turkish Air Force Planes Be Grounded"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZE-UoigCiM

Information has come from Syrian sources that last night (24.11) the Russian Aerospace Defence Forces struck with massive attacks on the positions of militants (including Turkomans) in the region where the Russian Su-24 was brought down.

The source reported that most likely nothing remains of the militants who shot down the Russian MI-8 .

No detailed information has arrived yet.

Meanwhile, there has appeared information that the Turks are not putting their fighters in the air after the majority of them were lit up by Russian radar (the S-300 and, according to early reports, possibly the S-400). After the statement of the Ministry of Defense of Russia, Turkey is afraid that their planes can be destroyed when approaching the border.

In this regard the Syrians reported that the Russia air-space forces can begin the full-scale destruction of camps in the border territory, and also annihilate the retreating militants and the fuel trucks which are moving towards Turkey.

Erdogan did not receive the hoped-for support from NATO. Erdogan has acknowledged that if the Russian plane even violated the border of Turkey, this was for only for 17 seconds, which means that the Turkish Air Force, on purely physical grounds, could not have reacted to it if the provocation was not prepared in advance. This figure of 17 seconds appears in NATO reports.

Members of NATO have been ambiguously treating Erdogan’s action. At present it is difficult to judge how the situation will develop. While it is obvious that Erdogan is attempting to back off, it is already too late, as Vladimir Putin gave to understand at a meeting with the king of Jordan.

Most likely Turkey did not expect such a severe reaction from Russia. link (http://southfront.org/vks-russian-federation-has-annihilated-the-militants-in-the-area-where-the-su-24-was-brought-down-erdogan-has-ordered-that-air-force-planes-of-turkey-be-grounded/)

notice the dreadlock clouds in the video image, thermo nukes, the gloves have come off

edited to add, that was a photo of Israel thermo nuking Gaza, not a Russian strike

[Hervé]

'17 Seconds': No One’s Buying Turkey’s Version of Su-24 Story
(http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030699146/questioning-turkey-airspace-story.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FSFpze4CnY8&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=agVW&utm_campaign=URL_shortening)
© Sputnik/ Dmitriy Vinogradov 01:53 25.11.2015
(updated 03:34 25.11.2015)


http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/103064/53/1030645306.jpg

The Turkish government’s official explanation for shooting down a Russian Su-24 bomber was that it had violated Turkish airspace. But Ankara’s timeline of the events is already raising questions.
In the wake of the downing of a Russian bomber along the Turkey-Syria border on Tuesday, many were demanding answers. In a letter to the United Nations Security Council, the Turkish ambassador gave his government’s view of the incident.

http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/103069/53/1030695346.png
© YouTube/RT Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace (http://sputniknews.com/military/20151124/1030695406/mod-su-24-flight-path.html)


"This morning (24 November) 2 SU-24 planes, the nationality of which are unknown have approached Turkish national airspace in Yayladagi/Hatay region. The planes in question have been warned 10 times during a period of 5 minutes via 'Emergency' channel and asked to change their headings south immediately," the letter, obtained by Wikileaks, reads.
"Disregarding these warnings, both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds from 9.24.05 local time."

But many social media users have begun crunching those numbers and found that they don’t quite add up.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/512138307870785536/Fe00yVS2_bigger.png WikiLeaks Verified account ‏@wikileaks (https://twitter.com/wikileaks)

Journalists: Learn to do basic maths. Look at Turkey's statement to UN: 1.15 miles / 17 seconds x 60 x 60 = 243 miles/hour = 391 km/hour
When calculating the distance flown and the amount of time allegedly spent in Turkish airspace, some have attempted to determine the aircraft’s flight speed. According to those numbers, the Su-24 would have had to be flying at stall speed.

Earlier on Tuesday, the Russian Ministry of Defense also released video proving that the incident did not happen the way the Turkish government claims. Flight path data of the Su-24 shows that it never entered Turkish airspace, and was attacked while flying over Syria.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/477768565257285632/amOQXhSe_bigger.jpeg Christopher Justice ‏@CopenhagenCrit (https://twitter.com/CopenhagenCrit)

@wikileaks (https://twitter.com/wikileaks) Really? In 17 seconds they did decide and shoot while ON TR? Only a kindergarten kid could buy this nonsense.
The bomber was shot down by two Turkish F-16s Tuesday morning. One of the pilots has been confirmed dead by Russian authorities, shot by rebel ground units after ejecting.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described the incident as a "stab in the back, carried out against us by accomplices of terrorists."

[Rocky_Shorz]

December 1st, China becomes President of the G20

just spoke with an insider, the disinfo part of all of Sorcha's reports is directing attention to CIA instead of Mossad...

read it again with Israel's Mossad in place of CIA


20 UN resolutions today, 17 against Israel

[sigma6]

I







bloody hell where are the high level assassins?... I want to see world leaders shot... not the millions of tax payers that support their parasitical opulent lifestyles...

You made me laugh.

Do you have any high level assassins in your pocket? Well, I do not have any and even not intend to have one, soon. Probably not any common folks.:Angel:

Then Ask this "who has high level assassins in their expense?" Then ask again "why they will shot their own feet":raining:

Not quite getting you, your grammar kind of fell apart at the end there... You don't think there are any "high level assassins" in the world? i.e. people who get paid to target and kill high profile political leaders? ... I am sure they exist, both within and outside of the government, the only issue is how much willingness there is to commit those forces...? since at some level, like the JFK assassination, it will be very clear who did what... and why... so everyone will have to live with it... there has to be a justification, a huge payoff...

[Hervé]

Russia ready to consider steps to close Turkish-Syrian border — Lavrov (http://tass.ru/en/politics/839245)

November 25, 16:34 UTC+3

Many say that, by closing this border, we will effectively curb the terrorist threat in Syria, Russian Foreign Minister said


http://cdn.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20151125/1115614.jpg


Turkish soldiers near Turkish-Syria border © EPA/STR


MOSCOW, November 25. /TASS/. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has described as correct the offer of French President Francois Hollande to take steps to close the Syrian-Turkish border. He said as much while talking to reporters on Wednesday.

"Going back to the news conference of Presidents of France and the United States Francois Hollande and Barack Obama in Washington, I noticed that the French president suggested taking steps to close the Turkish-Syrian border to stop both the flow of militants and terrorist financing," the Russian minister said. "It is significant that President Obama did not respond to this in any way, but I think it’s the right suggestion."

"I hope that President Hollande will brief us on the issue tomorrow (during the meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin)," the Russian foreign minister said. "We would be ready to seriously consider the steps necessary for this."

"Many say that, by closing this border, we will effectively curb the terrorist threat in Syria," Lavrov added.



http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284263/full/67321dca7d568f660cf7d871f1f327.jpg


Related:
Russia planning no war with Turkey — FM (http://tass.ru/en/politics/839164)
Russia to move S-400 air defense system to Syria — defense minister (http://tass.ru/en/defense/839109)
Syrian top diplomat to discuss fight against IS, political process during visit to Moscow (http://tass.ru/en/world/839023)
Russian forces make airstrikes on 472 terrorist facilities in Syria over past 2 days (http://tass.ru/en/defense/838407)

[Tangri]

This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

As my experience shows "when the Elite is in panic mood, innocent bystanders( common folks) die in big numbers.

Everybody(who read between timelines) knew that after Iraq , Libya , Syria ,Turkey's turn is coming up. This is part of depopulation, re engineering geopolitical demography plan.

[Tangri]

I







bloody hell where are the high level assassins?... I want to see world leaders shot... not the millions of tax payers that support their parasitical opulent lifestyles...

You made me laugh.

Do you have any high level assassins in your pocket? Well, I do not have any and even not intend to have one, soon. Probably not any common folks.:Angel:

Then Ask this "who has high level assassins in their expense?" Then ask again "why they will shot their own feet":raining:

Not quite getting you, your grammar kind of fell apart at the end there... You don't think there are any "high level assassins" in the world? i.e. people who get paid to target and kill high profile political leaders? ... I am sure they exist, both within and outside of the government, the only issue is how much willingness there is to commit those forces...? since at some level, like the JFK assassination, it will be very clear who did what... and why... so everyone will have to live with it... there has to be a justification, a huge payoff...

I understand your optimism for ex- military folks but in reality those kind of action does not match with common folks practice. We do not hire an assassin to kill another living being, this is maybe clone's,/ hybrit's job.

PS: Force yourself to understand the message not words.

[Hervé]

[...]
As well as denying Ankara’s assertions that the plane was in Turkey’s airspace, Murakhtin also refuted Turkish officials’ claim that the pilots were warned repeatedly.

“In actual fact there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,” said Murakhtin, who is currently recuperating at Russia’s airbase in Latakia, in northern Syria.
[... ]

Some credible corroboration from a PPRuNe contributor:

24th Nov 2015, 11:04 #29 (http://www.pprune.org/9190174-post29.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/571040-turkish-f16-shoots-down-unidentified-aircraft-their-airspace-2.html#post9190174))

The downed fighter jet was warned 10 times in 5 minutes according to a statement released by the Turkish Armed Forces
In what language?

One presumes in English, as that is likely to be the only common language. But in my experience the Turkish military English is as bad as Russian military English. In which case, there is ample room for confusion, especially when a military pilot is very busy planning an active sortie.Transmitting a warning is not the same thing as that warning being received and ignored, no matter what the language in use. I've got 153 combat missions under my belt and there were plenty of times my side was unsuccessful when trying to communicate with me while on a mission.

I've also made a number of non-combat intercepts of Russian bombers and not once were they able to make contact with me (and vice versa), although they were able to hold up the latest issue of Playboy magazine for my viewing pleasure.

The press may assume the Turkish warning was received and ignored, but we pilots, especially those with combat experience, should be more prudent and not jump to conclusions.

[DeDukshyn]

Something much bigger than baking a Turkey is happening here ... :)

I found the culprit!

http://www.kc3205.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/turkeyshoot.jpg


I didn't read this whole thread, but from what I have gleaned from the media the jet and pilots landed in Syria. Therefore they were either shot down in Syrian air space, or flying out of Turkey toward Syria and where shot down at or over the border as they were recognizing the violation and leaving. It can't really be any other way.

I am hearing these claims in mainstream media (Russian plane in Turkey's airspace shot down, pilots eject and land in Syria) and not one single writer / reporter notices this blatant flaw with the story? I just read it all again in the paper today (yeah I'm getting old). Can't anyone do any critical thinking anymore? Where are the journalists and editorial writers that are supposed to dissect these claims?

[Rocky_Shorz]

I




bloody hell where are the high level assassins?... I want to see world leaders shot... not the millions of tax payers that support their parasitical opulent lifestyles...

You made me laugh.

Do you have any high level assassins in your pocket? Well, I do not have any and even not intend to have one, soon. Probably not any common folks.:Angel:

Then Ask this "who has high level assassins in their expense?" Then ask again "why they will shot their own feet":raining:

Not quite getting you, your grammar kind of fell apart at the end there... You don't think there are any "high level assassins" in the world? i.e. people who get paid to target and kill high profile political leaders? ... I am sure they exist, both within and outside of the government, the only issue is how much willingness there is to commit those forces...? since at some level, like the JFK assassination, it will be very clear who did what... and why... so everyone will have to live with it... there has to be a justification, a huge payoff...

LOL...

let me help you translate that one, he commenting on World leaders vs us common folk...

he not like like paid stooges we all call government will never have assassins to quiet who matters...

[SilentFeathers]

duaOpQDrFuc

[Carmody]

Russia Published flight map, this plane had just finished destroying Turkey's oil tankers...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUm0gf8UEAAVjji.jpg

Erdogan's Son owns the maritime transport company hauling oil to Japan

these are his trucks...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUMCV8BU8AA7JBF.jpg

Erdogan is just trying to protect the family business...

and this corrupt sheep humper is asking NATO to step in and help?

this isn't about protecting Turkish interest, Erdogans are stealing oil from Iraq and Syria for personal gain...

Sd5ZLJWQmss

[Flash]

Yes Carmody, I am sure that you are right, 100% sure. They make an incredible bundle with the war in Syria, this is a gift Fallen from the sky for them, supported by ISIS, Israel en USA in some ways.

One has to know the history of the relationships between Turkey and Saoudi Arabia on one hand (both Sunni Muslim countries) and mostly Turkey and Israel on the other hand - always had lots of commerce in between both countries.

One also had to know how incredibly corrupt are the companies and usual economy in Turkey (80% below the table) and how much more corrupt still are the politicians. Erdogan and Erdogan family nearing the most corrupt ever most Turkey has known, most probably.

Killing hundred of thousands of people (Syrians in this case) for greed and profit, this is what Erdogan is about, with the complicity of USA through ISIL support and the direct support of Israel and Saoudi Arabia, most probably.



Russia Published flight map, this plane had just finished destroying Turkey's oil tankers...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUm0gf8UEAAVjji.jpg

Erdogan's Son owns the maritime transport company hauling oil to Japan

these are his trucks...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUMCV8BU8AA7JBF.jpg

Erdogan is just trying to protect the family business...

and this corrupt sheep humper is asking NATO to step in and help?

this isn't about protecting Turkish interest, Erdogans are stealing oil from Iraq and Syria for personal gain...

Sd5ZLJWQmss

[Flash]

Turkey is sooooooo corrupt Tangri that the politicians will do nothing to save it. It needs another Mustafa Kemal. And you know it better than I do, which in turn is better than most NOrth American do.

Same with most Middle Eastern countries, in fact, Syria may have been one of the least corrupt prior to the war.

Turkey was not in the plan we have heard of from this general on a video around 2000 I think. Turkey was perceived as an ally to the US. So it may be left alone by USA and Israel if it does not do completely stupid stuff, like killing Russians to protect the Turkish President businesses with ISIL in Syria.

I am absolutely sure nobody in Turkey (I mean regular folks) wants Russia to bombard them from Russian bases in Crimea for example. Istanbul being steps away.

Erdogan is a stupid psychopath filled with greed disguised under a religious cape. I know those guys.



This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

As my experience shows "when the Elite is in panic mood, innocent bystanders( common folks) die in big numbers.

Everybody(who read between timelines) knew that after Iraq , Libya , Syria ,Turkey's turn is coming up. This is part of depopulation, re engineering geopolitical demography plan.

[Tesseract]

Just so people know, the photos of those burning tankers were taken in Pakistan. They were NATO supply trucks attacked by the Taliban. I know it doesn't affect the message of the posts, but I wouldn't want someone to actually think those photos were taken in Syria.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-23/nato-tankers-attacked-in-pakistan/2851142

[Tangri]

Turkey is sooooooo corrupt Tangri that the politicians will do nothing to save it. It needs another Mustafa Kemal. And you know it better than I do, which in turn is better than most NOrth American do.

Same with most Middle Eastern countries, in fact, Syria may have been one of the least corrupt prior to the war.

Turkey was not in the plan we have heard of from this general on a video around 2000 I think. Turkey was perceived as an ally to the US. So it may be left alone by USA and Israel if it does not do completely stupid stuff, like killing Russians to protect the Turkish President businesses with ISIL in Syria.

I am absolutely sure nobody in Turkey (I mean regular folks) wants Russia to bombard them from Russian bases in Crimea for example. Istanbul being steps away.

Erdogan is a stupid psychopath filled with greed disguised under a religious cape. I know those guys.



This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

As my experience shows "when the Elite is in panic mood, innocent bystanders( common folks) die in big numbers.

Everybody(who read between timelines) knew that after Iraq , Libya , Syria ,Turkey's turn is coming up. This is part of depopulation, re engineering geopolitical demography plan.

Turkey's president Erdogan and his family made billions dollar while Iran couldn't use USA $, they traded with gold and all gold passed Turkey without paying any taxes.

Oil is not an issue., media use it because mass only can understand,/ accept the motivation. Without USA's succession,/ intimation Turkey can not attack a Russian army, this is not logical from any angle. Some big game is playing there and it is not good for regular folks (humans).

[Flash]

Thanks for the information about Erdogan. I knew he was bad, but I did not know how much. Still, he wants to make more billions, endless greed.

As for the USA backing Turkey for a call on shooting down Russian planes, of course, Turkey would not have done it otherwise.

I do not think Russia is better though. They are just playing the softer game for the moment. But their history is appalling, so they cannot be trusted either. And yes, Putin is ex KGB, we have to remember.



Turkey is sooooooo corrupt Tangri that the politicians will do nothing to save it. It needs another Mustafa Kemal. And you know it better than I do, which in turn is better than most NOrth American do.

Same with most Middle Eastern countries, in fact, Syria may have been one of the least corrupt prior to the war.

Turkey was not in the plan we have heard of from this general on a video around 2000 I think. Turkey was perceived as an ally to the US. So it may be left alone by USA and Israel if it does not do completely stupid stuff, like killing Russians to protect the Turkish President businesses with ISIL in Syria.

I am absolutely sure nobody in Turkey (I mean regular folks) wants Russia to bombard them from Russian bases in Crimea for example. Istanbul being steps away.

Erdogan is a stupid psychopath filled with greed disguised under a religious cape. I know those guys.



This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

As my experience shows "when the Elite is in panic mood, innocent bystanders( common folks) die in big numbers.

Everybody(who read between timelines) knew that after Iraq , Libya , Syria ,Turkey's turn is coming up. This is part of depopulation, re engineering geopolitical demography plan.

Turkey's president Erdogan and his family made billions dollar while Iran couldn't use USA $, they traded with gold and all gold passed Turkey without paying any taxes.

Oil is not an issue., media use it because mass only can understand,/ accept the motivation. Without USA's succession,/ intimation Turkey can not attack a Russian army, this is not logical from any angle. Some big game is playing there and it is not good for regular folks (humans).

[Bubu]

I understand your optimism for ex- military folks but in reality those kind of action does not match with common folks practice. We do not hire an assassin to kill another living being, this is maybe clone's,/ hybrit's job.

What? you seem to be fund of expeculating, even here in the Philippines its a common knowledge gun for hire exist. I even knew some of them.

[Bubu]

Something much bigger than baking a Turkey is happening here ... :)

I found the culprit!

http://www.kc3205.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/turkeyshoot.jpg


I didn't read this whole thread, but from what I have gleaned from the media the jet and pilots landed in Syria. Therefore they were either shot down in Syrian air space, or flying out of Turkey toward Syria and where shot down at or over the border as they were recognizing the violation and leaving. It can't really be any other way.

I am hearing these claims in mainstream media (Russian plane in Turkey's airspace shot down, pilots eject and land in Syria) and not one single writer / reporter notices this blatant flaw with the story? I just read it all again in the paper today (yeah I'm getting old). Can't anyone do any critical thinking anymore? Where are the journalists and editorial writers that are supposed to dissect these claims?

Agree, I was also thinking the same how come they landed on syria if shot over turkey

[Bubu]

This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

As my experience shows "when the Elite is in panic mood, innocent bystanders( common folks) die in big numbers.

Everybody(who read between timelines) knew that after Iraq , Libya , Syria ,Turkey's turn is coming up. This is part of depopulation, re engineering geopolitical demography plan.

Agree as per my experience also but things change, everything changed, As you can see no one is buying erdogans lies and Russia knew very well that its not the Turkeys they are fighting. This time the elite is in real panic though I expect some last breath effort that could harm some people http://tass.ru/en/politics/839164

[Tangri]

I understand your optimism for ex- military folks but in reality those kind of action does not match with common folks practice. We do not hire an assassin to kill another living being, this is maybe clone's,/ hybrit's job.

What? you seem to be fund of expeculating, even here in the Philippines its a common knowledge gun for hire exist. I even knew some of them.

:blushing: You are right but sigma6 did not mean to that kind low life people, to kill for few thousand bucks , he was calling high level assassins(professional and logistically supported- like black opps guy)

[Bubu]

I understand your optimism for ex- military folks but in reality those kind of action does not match with common folks practice. We do not hire an assassin to kill another living being, this is maybe clone's,/ hybrit's job.

What? you seem to be fund of expeculating, even here in the Philippines its a common knowledge gun for hire exist. I even knew some of them.

:blushing: You are right but sigma6 did not meant to that kind low life people, to kill for few thousand bucks , he was calling high level assassins(professional and logistically supported- like black opps guy)

so above is below applies to everything

[Tangri]

Thanks for the information about Erdogan. I knew he was bad, but I did not know how much. Still, he wants to make more billions, endless greed.

As for the USA backing Turkey for a call on shooting down Russian planes, of course, Turkey would not have done it otherwise.

I do not think Russia is better though. They are just playing the softer game for the moment. But their history is appalling, so they cannot be trusted either. And yes, Putin is ex KGB, we have to remember.



Turkey is sooooooo corrupt Tangri that the politicians will do nothing to save it. It needs another Mustafa Kemal. And you know it better than I do, which in turn is better than most NOrth American do.

Same with most Middle Eastern countries, in fact, Syria may have been one of the least corrupt prior to the war.

Turkey was not in the plan we have heard of from this general on a video around 2000 I think. Turkey was perceived as an ally to the US. So it may be left alone by USA and Israel if it does not do completely stupid stuff, like killing Russians to protect the Turkish President businesses with ISIL in Syria.

I am absolutely sure nobody in Turkey (I mean regular folks) wants Russia to bombard them from Russian bases in Crimea for example. Istanbul being steps away.

Erdogan is a stupid psychopath filled with greed disguised under a religious cape. I know those guys.



This is the elite in panic mode. Eventually a mistake will be made and not even their stranglehold on the MSM will prevent exposure.

As my experience shows "when the Elite is in panic mood, innocent bystanders( common folks) die in big numbers.

Everybody(who read between timelines) knew that after Iraq , Libya , Syria ,Turkey's turn is coming up. This is part of depopulation, re engineering geopolitical demography plan.

Turkey's president Erdogan and his family made billions dollar while Iran couldn't use USA $, they traded with gold and all gold passed Turkey without paying any taxes.

Oil is not an issue., media use it because mass only can understand,/ accept the motivation. Without USA's succession,/ intimation Turkey can not attack a Russian army, this is not logical from any angle. Some big game is playing there and it is not good for regular folks (humans).



I do not think Russia is better though. They are just playing the softer game for the moment. But their history is appalling, so they cannot be trusted either. And yes, Putin is ex KGB, we have to remember.

well nailed it , correct
If only we can remember, it is not for ISIS or oil.

[Bubu]

"I do not think Russia is better though. They are just playing the softer game for the moment. But their history is appalling, so they cannot be trusted either. And yes, Putin is ex KGB, we have to remember."

Russia is playing wise they knew that ISIS is quickly followed by Turkey and whos next if they go the same path. I'd like to see some plane crash or maybe death by electromagnetic waves if we can call that assassination.

[Tangri]

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mariya Zaharova that deliberately reduced the Twitter phenomenon of Russian fighters defending gave Fuat Avni claim.(11 October, 2015)

" Yezit(Erdogan) scare to much from coming election he was thinking civil war even taken down Russian Jets to cause a war"

http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2015/gundem/rus-sozcu-de-fuat-avni-dedi-995196/

[Flash]

Tangri, can you cool off and make an effort for translation (you are better at English than this usually,you must be excited or nervous), I do not understand what you are saying, but it may be important. I cannot read Turkish anylonger, I have not done it for too long. Thanks a lot


Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mariya Zaharova that deliberately reduced the Twitter phenomenon of Russian fighters defending gave Fuat Avni claim.(11 October, 2015)

" Yezit(Erdogan) scare to much from coming election he was thinking civil war even taken down Russian Jets to cause a war"

http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2015/gundem/rus-sozcu-de-fuat-avni-dedi-995196/

[Flash]

the whole thing all ties together. Therefore I am transfering here part of a post, a very interesting read, by Helvetic. Again the same players:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87078-Israeli-Colonel-Caught-with-IS-Pants-Down-Nov.-25-2015


Israel and Golan Heights Oil

In his November 9 White House meeting with US President Obama, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu asked Washington to reconsider the fact that since the 1967 Six-Days’ War between Israel and the Arab countries, Israel has illegally occupied a significant part of the Golan Heights. In their meeting, Netanyahu, apparently without success, called on Obama to back formal Israeli annexation of the illegally-occupied Golan Heights, claiming that the absence of a functioning Syrian government “allows for different thinking” concerning the future status of the strategically important area.

Of course Netanyahu did not address in any honest way how Israeli IDF and other forces had been responsible for the absence of a functioning Syrian government by their support for ISIS and Al Nusra Front of Al Qaeda.

In 2013, when UNDOF began to document increasing contact between Israeli military and IS and Al Qaeda along the Golan Heights, a little-known Newark, New Jersey oil company, Genie Energy, with an Israeli daughter company, Afek Oil & Gas, began also moving into Golan Heights with permission of the Netanyahu government to explore for oil. That same year Israeli military engineers overhauled the forty-five mile border fence with Syria, replacing it with a steel barricade that included barbed wire, touch sensors, motion detectors, infrared cameras, and ground radar, putting it on par with the Wall Israel has constructed in the West Bank.

Interestingly enough, on October 8, Yuval Bartov, chief geologist from Genie Energy’s Israeli subsidiary, Afek Oil & Gas, told Israel’s Channel 2 TV that his company had found a major oil reservoir on the Golan Heights: “We’ve found an oil stratum 350 meters thick in the southern Golan Heights. On average worldwide, strata are 20 to 30 meters thick, and this is 10 times as large as that, so we are talking about significant quantities.” As I noted in an earlier article, the International Advisory Board of Genie Energy includes such notorious names as Dick Cheney, former CIA head and infamous neo-con James Woolsey, Jacob Lord Rothschild and others.

Of course no reasonable person in their right mind would suggest there might be a link between Israeli military dealings with the ISIS and other anti-Assad terrorists in Syria, especially in the Golan Heights, and the oil find of Genie Energy in the same place, and with Netanyahu’s latest Golan Heights “rethink” appeal to Obama. That would smell too much like “conspiracy theory” and all reasonable people know conspiracies don’t exist, only coincidences. Or? In fact, to paraphrase the immortal words of Brad Pitt in the role of West Virginia First Lieutenant Aldo Raine in the final scene of Tarantino’s brilliant film, Inglorious Basterds, it seems that ‘Ol Netanyahu and his pecker-suckin pals in the IDF and Mossad just got caught with their hands in a very dirty cookie jar in Syria.

[Sophocles]

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president)

ZeroHedge - Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/25/2015 22:55 -0500

Russia's Sergey Lavrov is not one foreign minister known to mince his words. Just earlier today, 24 hours after a Russian plane was brought down by the country whose president three years ago (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/who-said-it-short-term-border-violation-can-never-be-pretext-attack) said "a short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack", had this to say: "We have serious doubts this was an unintended incident and believe this is a planned provocation" by Turkey.

But even that was tame compared to what Lavrov said to his Turkish counterparty Mevlut Cavusoglu earlier today during a phone call between the two (Lavrov who was supposed to travel to Turkey has since canceled such plans).

As Sputnik transcribes (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151125/1030764208/lavrov-cavusoglu-conversation.html), according to a press release from Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Lavrov pointed out that, "by shooting down a Russian plane on a counter-terrorist mission of the Russian Aerospace Force in Syria, and one that did not violate Turkey’s airspace, the Turkish government has in effect sided with ISIS."

It was in this context when Lavrov added that "Turkey’s actions appear premeditated, planned, and undertaken with a specific objective."

More importantly, Lavrov pointed to Turkey’s role in the propping up the terror network through the oil trade. Per the Russian statement:


The Russian Minister reminded his counterpart about Turkey’s involvement in the ISIS’ illegal trade in oil, which is transported via the area where the Russian plane was shot down, and about the terrorist infrastructure, arms and munitions depots and control centers that are also located there.

Others reaffirmed Lavrov's stance, such as retired French General Dominique Trinquand, who said that "Turkey is either not fighting ISIL at all or very little, and does not interfere with different types of smuggling that takes place on its border, be it oil, phosphate, cotton or people," he said.

The reason we find this line of questioning fascinating is that just last week in the aftermath of the French terror attack but long before the Turkish downing of the Russian jet, we wrote about "The Most Important Question About ISIS That Nobody Is Asking (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-19/most-important-question-about-isis-nobody-asking)" in which we asked who is the one "breaching every known law of funding terrorism when buying ISIS crude, almost certainly with the tacit approval by various "western alliance" governments, and why is it that these governments have allowed said middleman to continue funding ISIS for as long as it has?"

Precisely one week later, in even more tragic circumstances, suddenly everyone is asking this question.

And while we patiently dig to find who the on and offshore "commodity trading" middleman are, who cart away ISIS oil to European and other international markets in exchange for hundreds of millions of dollars, one name keeps popping up as the primary culprit of regional demand for the Islamic State's "terrorist oil" - that of Turkish president Recep Erdogan's son: Bilal Erdogan.

His very brief bio:


Necmettin Bilal Erdogan, commonly known as Bilal Erdogan (born 23 April 1980) is the third child of Recep Tayyip Erdo?an, the current President of Turkey.

After graduating from Kartal Imam Hatip High School in 1999, Bilal Erdogan moved to the US for undergraduate education. He also earned a Masters Degree in John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University in 2004. After graduation, he served in the World Bank as intern for a while. He returned Turkey in 2006 and started to his business life. Bilal Erdogan is one of the three equal shareholders of "BMZ Group Denizcilik ", a marine transportation corporation.

Here is a recent picture of Bilal, shown in a photo from a Turkish 2014 article (http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/turkiye/70059/Bilal_Erdogan_in_gemileri_Suriye_ye_ne_tasiyor_.html), which "asked why his ships are now in Syria":

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/11/bilal%20erdogan.jpg

In the next few days, we will present a full breakdown of Bilal's various business ventures, starting with his BMZ Group which is the name implicated most often in the smuggling of illegal Iraqi and Islamic State through to the western supply chain, but for now here is a brief, if very disturbing snapshot, of both father and son Erdogan by F. William Engdahl, one which should make everyone ask whether the son of Turkey's president (and thus, the father) is the silent mastermind who has been responsible for converting millions of barrels of Syrian Oil into hundreds of millions of dollars of Islamic State revenue.

By F. William Engdahl, posted originally in New Eastern Outlook (http://journal-neo.org/2015/08/24/erdogan-s-dirty-dangerous-isis-games/):

Erdogan's Dirth Dangerous ISIS Games

More and more details are coming to light revealing that the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, variously known as ISIS, IS or Daesh, is being fed and kept alive by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish President and by his Turkish intelligence service, including MIT, the Turkish CIA. Turkey, as a result of Erdogan’s pursuit of what some call a Neo-Ottoman Empire fantasies that stretch all the way to China, Syria and Iraq, threatens not only to destroy Turkey but much of the Middle East if he continues on his present path.

In October 2014 US Vice President Joe Biden told a Harvard gathering that Erdogan’s regime was backing ISIS with “hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/05/politics/isis-biden-erdogan-apology/)…” Biden later apologized clearly for tactical reasons to get Erdo?an’s permission to use Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base for airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, but the dimensions of Erdogan’s backing for ISIS since revealed is far, far more than Biden hinted.

ISIS militants were trained by US, Israeli and now it emerges, by Turkish special forces at secret bases in Konya Province inside the Turkish border to Syria, over the past three years (http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/12/how-the-west-created-the-islamic-state/). Erdo?an’s involvement in ISIS goes much deeper. At a time when Washington, Saudi Arabia and even Qatar appear to have cut off their support for ISIS, they remaining amazingly durable. The reason appears to be the scale of the backing from Erdo?an and his fellow neo-Ottoman Sunni Islam Prime Minister, Ahmet Davuto?lu.

Nice Family Business

The prime source of money feeding ISIS these days is sale of Iraqi oil from the Mosul region oilfields where they maintain a stronghold. The son of Erdogan it seems is the man who makes the export sales of ISIS-controlled oil possible.

Bilal Erdo?an owns several maritime companies. He has allegedly signed contracts with European operating companies to carry Iraqi stolen oil to different Asian countries. The Turkish government buys Iraqi plundered oil which is being produced from the Iraqi seized oil wells. Bilal Erdogan’s maritime companies own special wharfs in Beirut and Ceyhan ports that are transporting ISIS’ smuggled crude oil in Japan-bound oil tankers (http://awdnews.com/top-news/turkish-president%E2%80%99s-daughter-heads-a-covert-medical-corps-to-help-isis-injured-members,-reveals-a-disgruntled-nurse).

Gürsel Tekin vice-president of the Turkish Republican Peoples’ Party, CHP, declared in a recent Turkish media interview, “President Erdogan claims that according to international transportation conventions there is no legal infraction concerning Bilal’s illicit activities and his son is doing an ordinary business with the registered Japanese companies, but in fact Bilal Erdo?an is up to his neck in complicity with terrorism, but as long as his father holds office he will be immune from any judicial prosecution.” Tekin adds that Bilal’s maritime company doing the oil trades for ISIS, BMZ Ltd, is “a family business and president Erdogan’s close relatives hold shares in BMZ and they misused public funds and took illicit loans from Turkish banks.”

In addition to son Bilal’s illegal and lucrative oil trading for ISIS, Sümeyye Erdogan, the daughter of the Turkish President apparently runs a secret hospital camp inside Turkey just over the Syrian border where Turkish army trucks daily being in scores of wounded ISIS Jihadists to be patched up and sent back to wage the bloody Jihad in Syria, according to the testimony of a nurse who was recruited to work there until it was discovered she was a member of the Alawite branch of Islam, the same as Syrian President Bashar al-Assad who Erdogan seems hell-bent on toppling.

Turkish citizen Ramazan Bagol, captured this month by Kurdish People’s Defence Units,YPG, as he attempted to join ISIS from Konya province, told his captors that said he was sent to ISIS by the ‘Ismailia Sect,’ a strict Turkish Islam sect reported to be tied to Recep Erdogan. Baol said the sect recruits members and provides logistic support to the radical Islamist organization. He added that the Sect gives jihad training in neighborhoods of Konya and sends those trained here to join ISIS gangs in Syria (http://awdnews.com/top-news/captured-terrorist-interview-with-sect-in-turkey-recruiting-members-for-isis).

According to French geopolitical analyst, Thierry Meyssan, Recep Erdogan “organised the pillage of Syria, dismantled all the factories in Aleppo, the economic capital, and stole the machine-tools. Similarly, he organised the theft of archeological treasures and set up an international market in Antioch…with the help of General Benoît Puga, Chief of Staff for the Elysée, he organised a false-flag operation intended to provoke the launching of a war by the Atlantic Alliance – the chemical bombing of la Ghoutta in Damascus, in August 2013 (http://www.voltairenet.org/article188337.html). “

Meyssan claims that the Syria strategy of Erdo?an was initially secretly developed in coordination with former French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé and Erdogan’s then Foreign Minister Ahmet Davuto?lu, in 2011, after Juppe won a hesitant Erdogan to the idea of supporting the attack on traditional Turkish ally Syria in return for a promise of French support for Turkish membership in the EU. France later backed out, leaving Erdogan to continue the Syrian bloodbath largely on his own using ISIS (http://www.voltairenet.org/article188337.html).

Gen. John R. Allen, an opponent of Obama’s Iran peace strategy, now US diplomatic envoy coordinating the coalition against the Islamic State, exceeded his authorized role after meeting with Erdogan and “promised to create a "no-fly zone" ninety miles wide, over Syrian territory, along the whole border with Turkey, supposedly intended to help Syrian refugees fleeing from their government, but in reality to apply the "Juppé-Wright plan". The Turkish Prime Minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, revealed US support for the project on the TV channel A Haber by launching a bombing raid against the PKK.” Meyssan adds (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/world/middleeast/turkey-and-us-agree-on-plan-to-clear-isis-from-strip-of-northern-syria.html?ref=topics&_r=0).

There are never winners in war and Erdogan’s war against Syria’s Assad demonstrates that in bold. Turkey and the world deserve better. Ahmet Davutoglu’s famous “Zero Problems With Neighbors” foreign policy has been turned into massive problems with all neighbors due to the foolish ambitions of Erdogan and his gang.

Article at ZeroHedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president)

[Cara]

Thanks for sharing the Zero Hedge article Sophocles.

When I was reading it, I got the sense that Erdogan and family are being "set up" as the patsies / fall guys here with a very carefully laid trap. It just seems to me that they are the "fly in the spider's web".

Note, I am not excusing or dismissing the Erdogan family's corrupt, greedy acts and their involvement or responsibility in this appalling mess at all. They are clearly guilty of all sorts of crimes and have used their power for personal and malicious ends while at the same time causing the suffering and death of thousands.

To return to this sense I have on reading the Zero Hedge article:

There is no proof or evidence for this idea. It's just an intuition that this is a set-up - a large and complex one - where Erdogan et al are the actors in a stage play that is written and directed by others. I have a feeling that if they had not "agreed to go along" then some other corrupt political leader with power would have been found to do the same / similar. They've played a role (and played it well, much to their personal greedy gain).

Sorry if off topic, just wanted to share this idea.

/ Searcher

[Morbid]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5br1qOuvtyFWndlR3o5R1g5LWc

[Feritciva]

Let me make a summary;

We - as sane Turkish citizens - unfortunately deal with massive darkside for nearly 13 years. As of 2015, this dark gang (which is funded by Israel/US cabal) is going global rather than local. Russian jet story was the first step I'm afraid.

In June people said "enough" and Erdogan lost very big percentage of votes. Then suddenly we began to hear new terrorist attacks in South-east cities - and there was one blast even in capitol city Ankara. On November 1st a new election is made. Everybody thought this will be the end of Erdogan's career as polls showed percentages would go even lower. We were expecting around %32-35 vote for AKP (Erdogan's party) which will force them a coalition.

On November 1st, the voting process finished at 17:00 pm. On 17:45 all the TV's showed %50 vote for AKP and anounced them as winner party. Nobody understood how 30+ million votes were counted in 45 minutes.

There was one thing that I never understood till now; how can millions of people believe that twin towers (+ building 7) collapsed because of "plane crash". Controlled demolition was in front of their eyes, but nevertheless people still stick to the "official" explanations. Now there's second mystery for me; counting of 30 million votes in less than 1 hour.

And yes, mainstream media didn't question this either...

So we deserve how we live, how we're ruled. No need for hyperdimensional galactic x's or y's. Our own ignorance and laziness is enough for turning this beautiful planet into a prison planet.

[Carmody]

I understand your optimism for ex- military folks but in reality those kind of action does not match with common folks practice. We do not hire an assassin to kill another living being, this is maybe clone's,/ hybrit's job.

What? you seem to be fund of expeculating, even here in the Philippines its a common knowledge gun for hire exist. I even knew some of them.


Anyone who wants to have their eyes opened a bit, should begin looking at the Filipino political situation. Most of the western world would call it 'categorically insane'.

However, the western power structure tends to desire that the parts of the world that they 'control' ......to have instability and upheaval in their politics and corporate machines.

This gives them (the west) the opportunity to inject whatever they want, and their own home audience would never see it or understand it.

Meaning, Europe and/or western (USA) powers can inject manipulation in Filipino systems of governance, and, due to the incredible messiness of the Filipino system (at this time) the western (euro and USA/etc) public would never see it, nor have the depth of knowledge to truly understand it.

This is similar to how things are happening in the middle east, where sensationalist headlines about the middle east situation are headlined in the USA/euro papers and news, but the meaning of these events, the origin of these events, and the rate of occurrence of these events .....are outside of the depth of the news reports. Meaning, the events and moments can be used in any way, and their origins are manipulated into being, by the people involved with the western media machine.

[Hervé]

This Thanksgiving, Erdogan is the turkey (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/25/erdogan/)

... And Putin's going to carve him up


By Kevin Barrett (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/barrett/) on November 25, 2015


http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/erdogan-turkey-640x365.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/erdogan-turkey.jpg)
Can you tell them apart?



I used to admire Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

I admired his efforts to end the secular fascist gulag state founded by the alcoholic pedophile freemason Attaturk, and turn Turkey into an Islamic democracy.

I admired him for breaking up the neocon-Zionist Ergenekon plot to overthrow Turkish democracy via a 9/11-style false flag (http://truthjihad.blogspot.com/2011/05/view-from-turkey-usa-is-bizarro-world.html).

I admired his management of the Turkish economy, which enjoyed near double-digit growth during most of his term in office.

I admired him for saying he was going to use the Turkish Navy to break the blockade of Gaza (http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_erdogan-mavi-marmara-raid-was-cause-for-war_256509.html) after the Israelis murdered ten people, including eight Turkish nationals, aboard the Mavi Marmara.

And I admired his “zero problems with neighbors” policy (http://www.mfa.gov.tr/policy-of-zero-problems-with-our-neighbors.en.mfa), under which Turkey maintained good relations with every legitimate country in the region – including Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Russia – and refused to help the Zionist-dominated USA destroy Iraq in 2003.

But in the wake of his insane decision to shoot down a Russian plane for a trivial, most likely nonexistent, border violation, Erdogan has finished tearing his own legacy to shreds. He may also have set the stage for the carving-up of Turkey, in accordance with Israel’s ongoing Oded Yinon plan to balkanize the Middle East (http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815).

Erdogan’s decision to join the war on Syria ended his “no problems with neighbors” policy with a vengeance. Today, there is no country on earth with more problems with its neighbors than Turkey. Russia is furious and planning revenge. Ditto Assad. Ditto Iran. Iraq too. And the Kurds are literally up in arms battling Erdogan’s ISIS proxies and setting the stage for the dismemberment of Turkey.

Meanwhile, the Turkish economy is sinking, Turkish society is fragmenting, and the Ergenekon heroin-smuggling neocon creeps and Grey Wolf weirdos are howling for blood.

How in the world did Erdogan blunder into this mess?

Apparently NATO’s high command informed Erdogan in 2011 that regime change in Syria was a done deal. They were going to do to Assad what they just did to Qaddafi. Nobody could stop them. Erdogan could either join the bandwagon and play the lead role running post-regime-change Syria, or he would be left behind.

Erdogan bit.

SUCKER!

It was a trap. Like Saddam Hussein, who was lured into invading Kuwait by US-ordered slant drilling, loan-calling-in, and Bush’s agent April Glaspie, Erdogan was suckered into waging a disastrous war designed to destroy not only Syria, but Turkey as well.

Had Erdogan told NATO to go stuff it, as he did in 2003, Turkey would still be enjoying near-double-digit growth, and its President would be the most popular leader in Turkish history, right up there with Suleiman the Magnificent, and far ahead of scumbag Attaturk – whose legacy he could have finished shredding.

But once again, a Middle Eastern leader believed what the imperialists told him. Like Qaddafi, who thought cooperating with the West and abandoning his WMD would be appreciated, and like Saddam Hussein, who thought that if he only waged wars the West told him to wage he would be fine, Erdogan believed NATO when they told him, in early 2011, that he would get to run Syria very very soon, just as soon as they got rid of Assad…on the condition that he join the regime change operation.

What an idiot.

Now Russia is going to declare covert war on Turkey. They are going to smash Turkey’s anti-Assad proxies, not just ISIS but all the others as well, into tiny pieces. And they are going to ratchet up support to the PKK, which is now in a position to achieve its decades-old aspirations for the dismemberment of Turkey and the establishment of an independent Kurdistan.

This Thanksgiving, Turkey’s total turkey of a president has set up Turkey to get stuffed, carved up, and devoured.

[Hervé]

Ejected Su-24 Pilot Was Hunted by Militants Equipped With Modern Bearings
(http://sputniknews.com/military/20151126/1030814989/su-24-pilot-modern-bearings.html)
© Sputnik/ Dmitriy Vinogradov 19:04 26.11.2015
(updated 20:00 26.11.2015)


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284582/large/1028742067.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284582/full/1028742067.jpg)
© Sputnik/ Dmitriy Vinogradov


After rescuing the second pilot of the downed Su-24 in Syria, the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Syrian artillery targeted the area destroying terrorist groups there.

The terrorists hunting down the air navigator from the downed Su-24 in Syria were equipped with sophisticated direction finder equipment, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said Thursday.

The rescue operation took 12 hours.

"As soon as our pilot was safe, this area was targeted by massive Russian airstrikes an artillery bombardment by Syrian government forces for a prolonged period of time. Terrorists and other 'mysterious' groups operating in this area have been eliminated."

Turkey Denies Releasing Recordings of Contacts With Downed Russian Su-24:
Turkish authorities have informed the Russian military attache that they did not provide the media with audio recordings of alleged radio contacts between their F-16 fighter and the downed Russian Su-24 aircraft, the Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday.

"Representatives of the Turkish General Staff have stated that they did not share such material with the media. If so, this confirms yet again that the recordings of the Turkish pilots' contacts with our crew that emerged today are another fake," Maj. Gen. Konashenkov told reporters.

"Our military attache was informed that it was impossible to hand over any materials regarding the attack on the Russian plane by a Turkish F-16 on November 24," the spokesman said. On November 24 a Russian Su-24 bomber was downed by an air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet over Syrian territory. One of the two Su-24 pilots was killed by fire from the ground after ejecting from the plane.

[avid]

Let me make a summary;

On November 1st, the voting process finished at 17:00 pm. On 17:45 all the TV's showed %50 vote for AKP and anounced them as winner party. Nobody understood how 30+ million votes were counted in 45 minutes.

There was one thing that I never understood till now; how can millions of people believe that twin towers (+ building 7) collapsed because of "plane crash". Controlled demolition was in front of their eyes, but nevertheless people still stick to the "official" explanations. Now there's second mystery for me; counting of 30 million votes in less than 1 hour.

And yes, mainstream media didn't question this either...


Has anyone any other references to the crazy outcome?
The prior problems by zerohedge here (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-01/turkeys-ruling-party-gets-surprising-boost-election-erdogan-poised-victory)


You can read our full election preview here, but suffice to say Erdogan has essentially plunged his country into civil war in an effort to convince the electorate that in the absence of a dictator (i.e. him) they'll be chaos in the streets.

This campaign (which amounts to government-sponsored terrorism against citizens) is inextricably bound up with the conflict in Syria, as the PKK are affiliated with Syrian Kurds battling ISIS and vying for the right to declare an autonmous region on Turkey's border. HDP, the political party that effectively cost AKP its single-party rule in June, is affiliated with PKK.

This is all made immeasurably more complicated by the fact that the US is set to embed soldiers with the YPG and fly missions in support of the ground troops from a Turkish airbase.

It's all unbelievable convoluted and we again encourage you to review our previous coverage but as it relates to today's election, the simple takeaway is this: Erdogan is hell bent on restoring AKP's majority and that means that the results are a foregone conclusion. If he didn't get it today, he'd just undermine the coalition building process gain and hold a third round of elections, and then a fourth, and a fifth until he got what he wanted and in the interim, there'd be still more violence.

Surely, more questions should be asked? Plus, conflicts of interest admitted by the Turkish leadership.

[Flash]

Of course, Erdogan incredible greed and lack of overall intelligence is being used by other parties, and in the meantime those below who have a direct involvement and benefit in and from the war in Syria are being forgotten, once again. Dick Cheney, Netahyau are always involved, always, and more like the Rockerfeller and Rotchilds. But this time, Cheney is directly benefitting again.

HOwever, Erdogan is being used, and is also using the opportunities. And of course, he will be made a target, because Turkey is a very wonderful war price if anyone can put the hand on it.

Don't we have enough of the scums psychopaths running the show?


In 2013, when UNDOF began to document increasing contact between Israeli military and IS and Al Qaeda along the Golan Heights, a little-known Newark, New Jersey oil company, Genie Energy, with an Israeli daughter company, Afek Oil & Gas, began also moving into Golan Heights with permission of the Netanyahu government to explore for oil. That same year Israeli military engineers overhauled the forty-five mile border fence with Syria, replacing it with a steel barricade that included barbed wire, touch sensors, motion detectors, infrared cameras, and ground radar, putting it on par with the Wall Israel has constructed in the West Bank.

Interestingly enough, on October 8, Yuval Bartov, chief geologist from Genie Energy’s Israeli subsidiary, Afek Oil & Gas, told Israel’s Channel 2 TV that his company had found a major oil reservoir on the Golan Heights: “We’ve found an oil stratum 350 meters thick in the southern Golan Heights. On average worldwide, strata are 20 to 30 meters thick, and this is 10 times as large as that, so we are talking about significant quantities.” As I noted in an earlier article, the International Advisory Board of Genie Energy includes such notorious names as Dick Cheney, former CIA head and infamous neo-con James Woolsey, Jacob Lord Rothschild and others. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87016-Turkey-shoots-down-Russian-jet-near-Syrian-border&p=1023516&viewfull=1#post1023516




Thanks for sharing the Zero Hedge article Sophocles.

When I was reading it, I got the sense that Erdogan and family are being "set up" as the patsies / fall guys here with a very carefully laid trap. It just seems to me that they are the "fly in the spider's web".

Note, I am not excusing or dismissing the Erdogan family's corrupt, greedy acts and their involvement or responsibility in this appalling mess at all. They are clearly guilty of all sorts of crimes and have used their power for personal and malicious ends while at the same time causing the suffering and death of thousands.

To return to this sense I have on reading the Zero Hedge article:

There is no proof or evidence for this idea. It's just an intuition that this is a set-up - a large and complex one - where Erdogan et al are the actors in a stage play that is written and directed by others. I have a feeling that if they had not "agreed to go along" then some other corrupt political leader with power would have been found to do the same / similar. They've played a role (and played it well, much to their personal greedy gain).

Sorry if off topic, just wanted to share this idea.

/ Searcher

[Hervé]

Always the last to know: Did Turkish government find out about shoot-down of Russian jet after the fact? (http://www.sott.net/article/307233-Always-the-last-to-know-Did-Turkish-government-find-out-about-shoot-down-of-Russian-jet-after-the-fact#)

Joe Quinn Sott.net (http://www.sott.net/article/307233-Always-the-last-to-know-Did-Turkish-government-find-out-about-shoot-down-of-Russian-jet-after-the-fact#) Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:00 UTC



http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284570/large/Screen_Shot_2015_11_26_at_5_03.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284570/full/Screen_Shot_2015_11_26_at_5_03.jpg)
© USAF/Senior Airman Anthony Sanchelli,Members of the Turkish air force conduct an aircraft exercise April 11, 2013, at Incirlik Air Base, Turkey.


While it's pretty clear that the Erdogan government is lying about the shoot-down of the Russian jet, and that it was indeed a deliberately planned provocation as Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Erdogan government planned it.

It was the Turkish government's actions in the immediate aftermath of the shoot-down that makes me now think that these guys were caught with their pants down.

Let's take them in order.
1) Running to consult with NATO and firing off a letter to the UN: this seems like a fear-based response by Erdogan's ministers. If they either planned the attack in advance or calmly made the decision after giving 'fair warning' to the Russian jets, surely they would also have considered the fall-out and planned for it, thereby affording a certain composure?

2) No pessimistic bi-lateral energy outlook: Within one day of the shoot-down, which the Russian government condemned in rather serious terms, the Turkish Energy Minister was already entreating Russia to not get so worked up and claiming there would be no problem with Russian-Turkish energy relations: "In the heat of the moment, without all the information, it would be wrong to make unguarded statements", Albayrak said (https://www.rt.com/business/323450-turkey-reaction-economic-ties/) at his swearing-in ceremony in Ankara. "We have close friendly cultural and economic relations with Russia not only in energy, but also across other economic sectors. I am not pessimistic about our energy relations." The minister also assured the Turkish people that they should not fear the coming winter due to concerns that Russia could halt economic cooperation. That's an impressive level of confidence given that the Turks has just shot down and, indirectly, murdered a Russian pilot in cold blood.

3) I personally did it!: If there's one thing I've learned about politicians, it's that they are loath to take personal responsibility for anything, unless it serves their own interests. In the case of an international incident involving the shooting down by Turkish forces of a Russian jet involved in wiping out the jihadi forces that the entire world has come to hate, and which therefore implies significant potential negative attention for the Turkish government, both at home and abroad, you would expect the blame to be placed on as many shoulders as possible, ideally avoiding anyone in the public eye. But in this case the exact opposite occurred:
During a meeting with his AK Party underlings, Turkish PM Davutoglu (http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030762042/turkey-davutoglu-aircraft-orders.html) said "despite all the warnings, we had to destroy the aircraft, the Turkish Armed Forces carried out orders given by me personally."

Why would Davutoglu want everyone to know that he personally gave the order, a claim that in itself is not even credible given that the jet was supposedly in Turkish airspace for a mere 17 seconds, making it very unlikely that Turkish military command would have had time to call, consult and receive a definitive order from the PM's office?

Rather than self-assured bravado, Davutoglu's claim seems to be more evidence of the Turks running scared in the aftermath of the shoot-down and desperately seeking to contain and take ownership of a situation that caught them by surprise. The Turks' surprise may have been compounded today by the statement of an unnamed US official to Reuters (http://sputniknews.com/us/20151125/1030708850/us-turkey-downed-russian-jet-syria.html) that the US has evidence that the Russian jet was shot down over Syria, not Turkey.
So much can be got away with under the 'fog of war'.

Too cryptic? Ok, here's a map.


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284559/large/incirlik.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284559/full/incirlik.jpg)


Still too cryptic? Ok, here's a picture.


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284562/large/Incirlik_Turkey_US_Base.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284562/full/Incirlik_Turkey_US_Base.jpg)


Really? Ok, I'll cut to the chase; there's a good possibility that the Turkish F-16 that shot down the Russian jet was not under any official Turkish government orders. It may not have been under any official Turkish military orders either. In fact, its pilot may not even have been Turkish, or if he was, he may have been temporarily acting on behalf of another party with an interest in souring the Russian/Turkish relationship.

Let's face it, provoking a conflict between Russia and, well...anyone and everyone, is SOP for Uncle Sam. It has been for decades. To that end, the US has eyes and ears almost everywhere, including inside Turkey in the form of a latter day 'Gladio' network as revealed by the Ergenekon trials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_%28organization%29). The Gulen movement - a CIA-backed "moderate" Islamic phony NGO (https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/37/379052_fw-ct-former-turk-intel-guy-says-gulen-is-cia-front-in.html) - is also worth looking at in this respect. FBI whistle-blower Sibel Edmonds has inside knowledge of what Gulen is all about (https://youtu.be/DB8QbD-6Wjw):

"Under the guise of schools [Madrasas] in Central Asia & Caucasus his network is involved in training terrorists [from Chechens to other Islamic Jihadis in the area]. The bureau had him under investigations since 1998. However, they were prevented from pursuing the cases [despite all evidence collected] due to direct pressure from the CIA/State Department. How do I know? Some of the case files were under the division where I worked [counterintelligence]." The bottom line here is that Turkey gains very little, if anything, from attacking Russia in this way, and it risks a lot. The easily predicted Russian response to the shoot-down would be to hit Turkey where it hurts: in the Kurds, i.e. more and faster Russian and Syrian Army support for the Kurds and their campaign to gain and hold as much ground as possible along the Syrian-Turkish border, in advance of further peace talks in Vienna.

The US and Israel have a long history of using the Kurds for various geopolitical ends in the Middle East. The current plan for Russia, as I mentioned previously (http://www.sott.net/article/307145-NATO-Orders-Stool-Pigeon-Turkey-to-Shoot-Down-Russian-Jet), is 'balkanization' - the break-up of Syria into semi-autonomous regions. The Kurds, with their historical claim and fight for an independent Kurdistan, provide the best justification for kick-starting this 'balkanization' plan in Vienna.

If this scenario is close to accurate however, it's likely that both the Turks and Russians have already figured it out, or will soon do so. What they do at that point remains to be seen.

==============================


In other words: How come ground crews were equipped with sophisticated search equipment in the right spot, at the right time so that there wouldn't be any survivors to tell any tale?

[greybeard]

Turkey would have acted differently if it had known jet was Russian: Erdogan

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that Turkey would have acted differently if it had known a warplane its forces downed on the Syrian border was Russian.

"If we had known if it was a Russian plane maybe we would have warned it differently," Erdogan told France 24 television.

He also said that Russian President Vladimir Putin had not answered his call after Tuesday's incident that has seriously damaged ties between two rival players in the Syrian conflict.

"I called Mr Putin but until now he never answered my call," he said.

Turkey's military said the Su-24 bomber was shot down by two of its F-16s after it violated Turkish airspace 10 times within a five-minute period on Tuesday.

Russia however said no warning had been given and that the aircraft did not violate Turkish airspace.

Tuesday's incident prompted a tough response from Moscow, a major trade partner and Turkey's largest energy supplier.

Putin has branded the act as a "stab in the back" by "accomplices of terrorists."

But Erdogan denied Ankara was collaborating with the Islamic State and again denied claims that Turkey had bought any oil from the Islamic State group.

"Of course they are lies, they are slander," Erdogan told France 24.

"We have never, never had this kind of commercial relationship with any terror organisation. They have to prove it, and if they can, Tayyip Erdogan will leave office."

Turkey also Thursday summoned the Russian ambassador to Ankara over a violent demonstration outside its embassy in Moscow over the jet downing.

Several hundred young activists on Wednesday hurled stones and eggs at the mission and broke several windows.

The foreign ministry said it wanted to express discontent over the "unacceptable" protest as well as a series of incidents against Turkish companies in Russia.

"We are dismayed that our representatives in Russia and Turkish companies are victims of physical attacks carried out under the pretext of protests," the ministry said in a statement.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/turkey-acted-differently-had-known-jet-russian-erdogan-172306480.html#scaehX5

[greybeard]

I am past believing what any politician says about any matter particularly "One of National Importance"
Agenda, agenda, agenda!!!!!

Chris

[greybeard]

Russia says 'destroyed' Syria rebels in area where jet brought down

Russia on Thursday said its forces had wiped out Syrian rebel groups operating in the area where one of its jets was brought down, unleashing a huge bombardment after rescuing a pilot.

"As soon as our pilot was safe, Russian bombers and artillery of the Syrian government forces carried out massive strikes in the indicated area for an extended period," military official Igor Konashenkov told Russian news agencies.

"The terrorists operating in that area and other mysterious groups were destroyed," he said.

Konashenkov added that the Russian strikes helped Syrian ground forces take control of the mountainous area in the north of the Latakia province.

Turkey on Tuesday shot down a Russian jet in northern Syria alleging that it had crossed over into its air space and sparking a war of words with Moscow.

One pilot that parachuted out was later rescued by Russian and Syrian special forces, while a second pilot from the jet and a soldier sent to rescue him were killed by rebels on the ground.

The defence ministry said Thursday that it had deployed its advanced S-400 air defence system at the Russian airbase in Syria to ensure the security of its warplanes, which have been bombing the war-torn country since September 30.

Konashenkov said that over the past three days its jets carried out 134 combat sorties over the war-torn country and struck 449 targets in the Aleppo, Damascus, Idlib, Latakia, Hama, Homs, Raqa and Deir Ezzor provinces.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russia-says-destroyed-syria-rebels-area-where-jet-174019306.html#aVe28Qh

[Grizz Griswold]

Looks like Turkey really likes things to go it's way.
Statement from Erodan, after Syria shot down one of it's jets in June 2012.

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".
"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. The Turkish jet was on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

Source and full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18584872

b

[greybeard]

US knew flight path of plane downed by Turkey: Putin

President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that Russia had given prior information to the United States of the flight path of the plane downed by Turkey on the Syrian border.

"The American side, which leads the coalition that Turkey belongs to, knew about the location and time of our planes' flights, and we were hit exactly there and at that time," Putin said at a joint press conference with French counterpart Francois Hollande in the Kremlin.

Ahead of the Hollande talks, Putin and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan traded barbs, with the Russian leader saying he was waiting for an apology and Erdogan ruling out any such move.

Putin on Thursday dismissed as "rubbish" Turkey's claim that it would not have shot down the jet if it had known it was Russian.

"They [our planes] have identification signs and these are well visible," Putin said. "Instead of [...] ensuring this never happens again, we are hearing unintelligible explanations and statements that there is nothing to apologise about."

Putin has also accused Turkey of buying oil from the Islamic State jihadist group, whose financing heavily relies on the sale of energy resources.

Putin said there was "no doubt" that oil from "terrorist-controlled" territory in Syria was making its way across the border into Turkey.

"We see from the sky where these vehicles [carrying oil] are going," Putin said. "They are going to Turkey day and night."

"These barrels are not only carrying oil but also the blood of our citizens because with this money terrorists buy weapons and ammunition and then organise bloody attacks," he added.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-knew-flight-path-plane-downed-turkey-putin-202631865.html#KEkMq8Q

[Rocky_Shorz]

I just noticed China located a cell of terrorists, forget 5000 bullets like the French, they blazed the building with flame throwers torching everyone...

isis should feel lucky the Chinese haven't started hunting them down...

[Tangri]

Tangri, can you cool off and make an effort for translation (you are better at English than this usually,you must be excited or nervous), I do not understand what you are saying, but it may be important. I cannot read Turkish anylonger, I have not done it for too long. Thanks a lot


Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mariya Zaharova that deliberately reduced the Twitter phenomenon of Russian fighters defending gave Fuat Avni claim.(11 October, 2015)

" Yezit(Erdogan) scare to much from coming election he was thinking civil war even taken down Russian Jets to cause a war"

http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2015/gundem/rus-sozcu-de-fuat-avni-dedi-995196/

Ok I will try to elaborate.

There is a tweeter whistle- blower pseudo-named as a Fuat Avni(ex- intelligent agent,/paid CIA propagator) who tweeted Oct 11, 2015 "Turkey is going to shot down a Russian plane."

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mariya Zaharova mentioned it after the shooting.
Below links is English.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_russian-spokesperson-cites-turkish-whistleblowers-earlier-claims-on-downed-russian-jet_405304.html

[Tangri]

MİT trucks: arms and medicine (MIT:National Intelligence agency)

http://www.todayszaman.com/columnists_mi-t-trucks-arms-and-medicine_382107.html


I hope some day we can see at the main media CIA' criminal acts.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-esNcG7-Eqk

[Bubu]

I understand your optimism for ex- military folks but in reality those kind of action does not match with common folks practice. We do not hire an assassin to kill another living being, this is maybe clone's,/ hybrit's job.

What? you seem to be fund of expeculating, even here in the Philippines its a common knowledge gun for hire exist. I even knew some of them.


Anyone who wants to have their eyes opened a bit, should begin looking at the Filipino political situation. Most of the western world would call it 'categorically insane'.
.

You are correct that is why I've been campaigning to abolish the government. But reality check, can you point me to a sane government. At least we are not yet mandating vaccination. Each government has its brand of insanity but all categorically insane.

[Hervé]

Top US air defense commander: Shootdown of Russian Jet had to be pre-planned (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/11/top-u-s-air-defense-commander-turkeys-shootdown-russian-jet-pre-planned.html)


Washington's Blog (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/11/top-u-s-air-defense-commander-turkeys-shootdown-russian-jet-pre-planned.html)
Wed, 25 Nov 2015 00:00 UTC


3pRIDAz4Dc8


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284757/medium/220px_Thomas_G_McInerney.jpg (http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284757/full/220px_Thomas_G_McInerney.jpg)
© en.wikipedia.orgLT. General Thomas G. McInerney


Lt. General Tom McInerney is an expert on handling threats from fighter jets.

McInerney served as (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_McInerney):

Commander of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) - the military agency responsible for protecting the United States and Canada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Aerospace_Defense_Command) from foreign jet attacks - for the Alaska region
Commander of the Alaskan Air Command
Commander of 11th Air Force in Alaska
Commander of the 3rd Tactical Fighter Wing, Clark Air Base, Philippines
Commander of the 313th Air Division, Kadena AIr Base, Japan
Commander of 3rd Air Force, Royal Air Force Station Mildenhall, England
Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force
A command pilot wiht more than 4,100 flying hours, including 407 combat missions

In his role as NORAD commander for Alaska, McInerney dealt with more Russian fighter jet incursions (which he calls "bear penetrations") than anyone else in the world. So McInerney knows how to tell innocent from hostile incursions by foreign fighter jets, standard rules of engagement of foreign fighter jets, how to read radar tracks, and the other things he would need to know to form an informed opinion about the shootdown of a foreign jet.

Yesterday, McInerney told Fox News - much to the surprise of the reporter interviewing him - that assuming the Turkish version of the flight path of the Russian jet is accurate, Russia wasn't threatening Turkey, and that Turkey's shoot down of the Russian jet "had to be pre-planned", as the jet wasn't in Turkish air space long enough for anything other than a premeditated attack to have brought it down.

McInerney is right ... especially given that a U.S. official told Reuters that the Russian jet was inside of Syria when it was shot down:
The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a U.S. official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.
==============================


SOTT Comment: (http://www.sott.net/article/307276-Top-US-air-defense-commander-Shootdown-of-Russian-Jet-had-to-be-pre-planned) The assessment that the Russian jet was in Syrian airspace when it was shot down was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet, confirmed by an anonymous official.


==============================


Now... there is a very interesting answer given to a journalist in a Q&A at the end of the press conference closing the yesterday meeting between Hollande and Putin:

The SU-24 mission specifics (path coordinates, time, etc...) were given to all interested parties - including the US - prior to the mission so that anyone involved in that air-space traffic would be aware of that flight. (see: "Putin: US knew the flight plan of the Russian jet (http://neurope.eu/article/putin-us-knew-the-flight-plan-of-the-russian-jet/)")

Whence the "pre-planned" assertion uttered by the Russians. That is, it was no accident, and everyone involved knew it was a Russian airplane.

... and Erdogan is the one caught holding the bag (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87016-Turkey-shoots-down-Russian-jet-near-Syrian-border&p=1023590&viewfull=1#post1023590). (see also: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87016-Turkey-shoots-down-Russian-jet-near-Syrian-border&p=1023633&viewfull=1#post1023633)

[Rocky_Shorz]

Letting Turkey know a Russian plane was flying a certain path was so they had no surprises, Russia was sharing the info with Turkey. Erdogan the lying little Turkish Caliphate wannabe yesterday said we didn't know it was a Russian plane.

One of the cabinet members of the PM said he ordered it to be shot down...

They poked the bear, and it responded by air sea and ground as a show to Turkey, do it again and next time this is what we will do to you...

[Hervé]

The West Wants Turkey Out (http://journal-neo.org/2015/11/27/the-west-wants-turkey-out/)

27.11.2015 Author: Martin Berger (http://journal-neo.org/author/martin-berger/)


http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/5257e8af8cacea6d6c9b932a62db5a14_XL-300x162.jpg (http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/5257e8af8cacea6d6c9b932a62db5a14_XL.jpg)


The downing of Russia’s Su-24 bomber by the Turkish Air Force is “one of the nightmare scenarios that military planners had envisaged as a result of Moscow’s decision to enter the conflict,” reports The Financial Times (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/952c366a-92ba-11e5-94e6-c5413829caa5.html#axzz3sfgYG8Wf).

In turn, The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-downs-russian-military-aircraft-near-syrias-border/2015/11/24/9e8e0c42-9288-11e5-8aa0-5d0946560a97_story.html)believes that “NATO faced being thrust into a new Middle Eastern crisis… The incident marked a serious escalation in the Syrian conflict that is likely to further strain relations between Russia and the NATO alliance.”

The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/24/the-guardian-view-on-the-downed-russian-jet-stay-cool-ankara-and-moscow) argues that we’ve witnessed “a nerve-jangling event, that raised the spectre of a direct confrontation between two large powers: one a Nato member, the other nuclear-armed”.

While it’s clear that neither Russia nor NATO wants to go to war against each other, each side is trying to deal with the situation and identify the reasons that provoked the recent crisis and, what’s even more important, to establish who’s at fault.

In this context one cannot help but remember a short report that was published by the Daily Star (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/469414/RAF-Tornados-missile-Putin-Syria-UK-tensions-strikes-Islamic-State), citing unnamed sources in the UK government. According to this report all NATO pilots were given clearance to attack “unfriendly” Russian planes if perceived to “threaten the lives” of NATO’s military personnel. For this reason all RAF aircraft were equipped with short-range “air-to-air” missiles, which are to be fired at Russian fighters.

However, to resolve the difficult crisis that followed the destruction of the Russian Su-24 quickly, the West is now searching for those “guilty” of this blatant attack, which is, without a doubt, the Turkish leader – Tayyip Erdogan. It seems that NATO states are not afraid to criticize Turkey for its actions against Russia. Vice-Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany and the chairman of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) Sigmar Gabriel expressed harsh criticism of Turkey after the downing of Russia’s Su-24 bombers by labeling it an “unpredictable player”, reports the German Die Welt.
The members of NATO fear that the “impulsive actions” of Turkey’s President will force them into a new major conflict, and NATO is not prepared to fight it yet. These “impulsive actions” may trigger the response that is required by Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty. No wonder Hollande, while declaring war against ISIL, made no reference of Article 5, by quoting the EU Lisbon Treaty instead.
France is convinced that once the “Muslim Brotherhood” came to power in Turkey, headed by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey has become a major headache for Western politicians, says Le Figaro (http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/monde/2015/11/25/31002-20151125ARTFIG00062-la-turquie-a-cesse-d-etre-notre-alliee.php). According to its journalists, Turkey used to be an ally of the West, however, it is nothing of the kind anymore. Relations with Turkey took a U-turn once Erdogan started systematically “undermining” Turkey’s strategic relations with Israel which were stable since 1949. Anti-Turkish sentiments in the West were aggravated even further by the games Erdogan had been playing during the “Arab Spring”, when he first became a close friend of Bashar al-Assad, and then stabbed him in the back by allowing jihadists from around the world to swarm into Syria by crossing through Turkey’s territory. When the sworn enemies of Erdogan – local Kurds were dying in a heroic defense of the city of Kobani, Turkey did nothing to relieve their suffering, waiting for Western countries to save the population of the city instead.

In this context it’s curious what the former NATO commander of Europe, Ret. General Wesley Clark, has been saying about Turkey :


“Let’s be very clear: ISIL is not just a terrorist organization, it is a Sunni terrorist organization. It means it blocks and targets Shia, and that means it’s serving the interests of Turkey and Saudi Arabia even as it poses a threat to them All along there’s always been the idea that Turkey was supporting ISIS in some way… Someone’s buying that oil that ISIL is selling, it’s going through somewhere. It looks to me like it’s probably going through Turkey, but the Turks have never acknowledged it.” Here’s the reason why Russia was stabbed in the back by a NATO member country.

Once Russia began military operations against ISIL in Syria, Ankara’s relations with Washington started deteriorating rapidly. The situation we have on our hands now is further complicated by the fact that it was “defenseless” Turkomans who were shooting Russian pilots as they descended with parachutes, along with bringing down a Russian helicopter that was sent to rescue the pilots. All the recent NATO meetings have been stained by concerns that the Turkish agenda in Syria has little to do with the position of the West.

Now that Erdogan’s arrogance has become apparent to everyone, even though he allowed the US Air Force to use a base in Turkey’s territory, he has also been launching attacks against Syrian Kurds that remain the most faithful allies of Washington in the fight against ISIL.

It is, therefore, hardly surprising that a retired US Major General Paul Vallely (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/paul-vallely-turkey-nato-russian-jet/2015/11/24/id/703480/) accused the Turkish government of an attempt to create a new Ottoman Empire. According to him, due to all well-known facts of Ankara’s assistance to the Islamic State, Turkey should be expelled from NATO.

The Washington Times (http://journal-neo.org/2015/11/27/the-west-wants-turkey-out/%20%20http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/24/l-todd-wood-will-reckless-turkey-draw-nato-war-rus/) is also questioning Turkey as a member state of NATO, while underlying that the attack on the Russian Su-24 makes this debate particularly relevant and timely. The newspaper notes that Ankara has been providing ISIL units with close air support when the latter was fighting Kurds in Syria and Iraq. Its journalists are convinced that Turkey has been turned into a theocratic Islamist dictatorship, where the freedom of the press is gradually been destroyed.

The conservative American Thinker (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/11/time_to_trade_turkey_for_russia_in_nato.html%20%20http://actualpolitics.ru/article/10279) goes even further by claiming it’s about time to replace Turkey with Russia in NATO, since the West has more in common with Russia than with the Islamist Turkey. To support this position, the magazine notes that when Turkey joined NATO back in February 1952, the advocates of this step argued that they need an Islamic state to prevent Soviet expansion in the region from happening. But it’s clear that this was a deal with the devil. After all, it was the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 that broke the alliance apart, forcing Greece to withdraw its troop from under NATO command. In 2012, Syria shot down a Turkish fighter since it was deliberately violating its airspace. Later that same year, Turkey bombarded government facilities in Syria.

For decades, Turkey has used NATO membership, in order to achieve its own objectives, which, as a rule, do not coincide with the interests of the alliance. In the early 2000s, Turkey chose to demonstrate its support of Islamism, which has always been a more serious threat to the West than the Soviet Union. Therefore, it seems that the American Thinker has expressed the opinion of a larger part of the western public, by urging NATO to get in an alliance with Russia against Islamism, including the “Islamic state of Turkey.”

Martin Berger is a Czech-based freelance journalist and analyst, exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook (http://journal-neo.org/)
First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2015/11/27/the-west-wants-turkey-out/

[Flash]

Tangri, many thanks, I knew you could have real good information. There is also a video that is much much important, very important to understand the implications of the CIA and all over the Turkish Religiously government.

First: extract from the article of the guy who said Turkey would fire on Russia to bring them to the edge of war


In comments on Turkey’s recent downing of a Russian jet over violation of its airspace, a spokesperson from the Russian Foreign Ministry has recalled that famous Turkish Twitter whistleblower claimed back in October that the Turkish government was planning to down a Russian jet to remain in power.

At a press conference on Wednesday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova claimed that Turkey “purposefully” downed the Russian Su-24 at the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday and said the “unprecedented” incident will have serious repercussions.

She also quoted statements of Turkish Twitter whistleblower Fuat Avni who claimed in October that the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government and President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan were planning to down a Russian jet to bring Turkey to brink of war with Russia to ultimately keep its power. “This is very interesting,” Zakharova said.

Turkish Air Force jets downed a Russian-made SU-24 on the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday after having repeatedly warned it over airspace violations, according to Turkish officials' claims.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_russian-spokesperson-cites-turkish-whistleblowers-earlier-claims-on-downed-russian-jet_405304.html (http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_russian-spokesperson-cites-turkish-whistleblowers-earlier-claims-on-downed-russian-jet_405304.html)

Second, a MUST LISTEN video dating from 2009 explaining HOW the CIA was involved and manoeuvred what is happening in Turkey years ago, to end up with a Religion war all over the planet


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB8QbD-6Wjw&feature=youtu.be

A more recent one


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAiAFqXPwZ8

The other article Tangri refers to:


In comments on Turkey’s recent downing of a Russian jet over violation of its airspace, a spokesperson from the Russian Foreign Ministry has recalled that famous Turkish Twitter whistleblower claimed back in October that the Turkish government was planning to down a Russian jet to remain in power.

At a press conference on Wednesday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova claimed that Turkey “purposefully” downed the Russian Su-24 at the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday and said the “unprecedented” incident will have serious repercussions.

She also quoted statements of Turkish Twitter whistleblower Fuat Avni who claimed in October that the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government and President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan were planning to down a Russian jet to bring Turkey to brink of war with Russia to ultimately keep its power. “This is very interesting,” Zakharova said.

Turkish Air Force jets downed a Russian-made SU-24 on the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday after having repeatedly warned it over airspace violations, according to Turkish officials' claims.
http://www.todayszaman.com/columnists_mi-t-trucks-arms-and-medicine_382107.html






Tangri, can you cool off and make an effort for translation (you are better at English than this usually,you must be excited or nervous), I do not understand what you are saying, but it may be important. I cannot read Turkish anylonger, I have not done it for too long. Thanks a lot


Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mariya Zaharova that deliberately reduced the Twitter phenomenon of Russian fighters defending gave Fuat Avni claim.(11 October, 2015)

" Yezit(Erdogan) scare to much from coming election he was thinking civil war even taken down Russian Jets to cause a war"

http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2015/gundem/rus-sozcu-de-fuat-avni-dedi-995196/

Ok I will try to elaborate.

There is a tweeter whistle- blower pseudo-named as a Fuat Avni(ex- intelligent agent,/paid CIA propagator) who tweeted Oct 11, 2015 "Turkey is going to shot down a Russian plane."

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mariya Zaharova mentioned it after the shooting.
Below links is English.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_russian-spokesperson-cites-turkish-whistleblowers-earlier-claims-on-downed-russian-jet_405304.html

[Flash]

Never ever will the USA want Turkey out, Turkey is too useful.

China WILL HAVE TO get involved because of the Eastern borders with oïl producing Central Asia countries.

Incredible video from a REALLY well researched and excellent knowledge of the régions where petroleum is found and distributed, as well as the American mentality regarding those countries (of course, I am not talking about the regular folks, but their administration)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cze1zVDsQMs

[greybeard]

Turkey-Russia spat over downed Russian warplane escalates


NKARA, Turkey (AP) — A tug-of-war over a Russian warplane downed by a Turkish fighter jet at the border with Syria escalated Thursday, with Moscow drafting a slew of economic sanctions against Turkey and the Turkish president defiantly declaring that his military will shoot down any new intruder.

The spat reflected a clash of ambitions of two strongman leaders, neither of whom appeared willing to back down and search for a compromise.

Turkey shot down the Russian Su-24 military jet on Tuesday, insisting it had violated its airspace despite repeated warnings. The incident marked the first time in half a century that a NATO member shot down a Russian plane, raising the threat of a military confrontation between the alliance and Moscow.

Russian President Vladimir Putin denounced the Turkish action as a "treacherous stab in the back," and insisted that the plane was downed over Syrian territory in violation of international law.

"Until that moment, we haven't heard a clear apology from Turkey's top political leadership, or an offer to compensate for the damage or a promise to punish the criminals," he said at the Kremlin while receiving credentials from several ambassadors. "It gives an impression that the Turkish leadership is deliberately driving Russian-Turkish relations into a deadlock, and we regret that."

But Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was in no mood to apologize, and warned that Ankara would act in the same way in the event of another intrusion.

"Faced with the same violation today, Turkey would give the same response," Erdogan said. "It's the country that carried out the violation which should question itself and take measures to prevent it from happening again, not the country that was subjected to a violation."

Erdogan said Turkey had not specifically targeted Russia when it shot down the plane, saying it was "an automatic response" in line with its rules of engagement.

He spoke on a more conciliatory note in separate comments on France 24. Asked if Turkey would still have targeted the plane if it positively knew it was Russian, he said: "If we had determined it, the warnings would have been different."

Speaking later in the Kremlin after the talks with French President Francois Hollande, Putin said he was sorry to hear that Erdogan sees no need to apologize.

"For us, Turkey was not just a neighbor, but a friendly state, almost an ally," he said. "It's very sad to see all of it being destroyed so thoughtlessly and brutally."

The Russian and Turkish leaders are often compared to each other. Both are populist, frequently crack down on critics and often revert to anti-Western rhetoric. They had enjoyed close relations until recently, despite differences over Syria, and regularly exchanged visits. In September, Erdogan traveled to Moscow where he and Putin attended the opening of a new mosque, and they also met separately at the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit hosted by Turkey.

On Thursday, Erdogan told France 24 television in an interview that he had tried talking to Putin but that the Russian leader did not respond.

Turkey has released audio recordings of what it says are the Turkish military's repeated warnings to the pilot of a Russian bomber before it was shot down at the border with Syria.

The recordings, made available to The Associated Press on Thursday, indicate the plane was warned several times that it was approaching Turkey's airspace and asked to change course, but there is no indication of a Russian reply.

In the recordings, a voice is heard saying in broken English: "This is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately." The voice gets increasingly agitated as the warnings appear to go unnoticed.

The audio that was released only involved Turkish warnings, no replies by a Russian pilot. It was not clear if Turkey had received any replies from the Russian pilots but did not release them; if the Russian pilots never replied to the warnings; or if the Russians never even heard the warnings.

A Russian airman who survived the shoot-down and was later rescued by the Syrian and Russian commando, denied veering into Turkey's airspace "even for a single second." Turkey insists the plane was in its airspace for 17 seconds.

Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin also said he and his crewmate, who was killed by ground fire after bailing out, hadn't heard any Turkish warnings. The Russian Foreign Ministry dismissed the audio recording released by Ankara as a fake.

Erdogan accused Russia of using its declared goal to fight the Islamic State group in Syria as a pretext to target opposition groups including the Turkmen, in order to shore up Syrian President Bashar Assad.

He also challenged Russia to prove its accusation that Turkey is buying oil and gas from IS, calling the claims "shameful" and even pledging to step down if the claim is proven.

"This is a great disrespect to Turkey and those who make the claims are slanderers," he said. "If they prove it, Tayyip Erdogan would step down."

Commenting on Erdogan's statement, Putin said that at the G-20 summit in Antalya he showed fellow leaders the aerial pictures of convoys of oil trucks carrying the IS oil into Turkey.

"Let's assume that Turkey's political leadership knows nothing about it, it's theoretically possible, albeit hard to believe," he said sarcastically. "There may be elements of corruption and insider deals. They should deal with it."

Putin responded to the plane's downing by ordering the deployment of powerful long-range air defense missiles to a Russian air base in Syria.

On Thursday, Russian state television stations ran a report showing the S-400 missiles already deployed at the Hemeimeem air base in Syria's coastal province of Latakia, just 50 kilometers (30 miles) away from the border with Turkey.

The Russian navy missile cruiser Moskva also moved closer to the shore to help protect Russian warplanes with its long-range Fort air defense system.

The Russian Defense Ministry has warned that the military was prepared to destroy any aerial target that may threaten its warplanes, and announced the severance of all military ties with Turkey.

Concerned by the move, Turkey's High Military Council, which included top government and military leaders, called Thursday for keeping all diplomatic and military channels of communication open to avoid new "undesired" incidents on the Turkey-Syria border.

In addition to the military moves, the Kremlin also acted Thursday to inflict economic pain on Turkey.

Since the plane was downed, Russia has already restricted tourism, left Turkish trucks stranded at the border and announced the confiscation of large quantities of Turkish food imports.

On Thursday, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev ordered a range of economic sanctions against Turkey within the next two days. They will include "restrictions and bans on Turkish economic structures operating in Russian territory, restrictions and bans on deliveries of products, including foodstuffs," as well as on labor and services.

Russia was the biggest source of Turkish imports last year, worth $25 billion, which mostly accounted for Russian gas supplies. It also is the largest destination for Turkish exports, mostly textiles and food, and Turkish construction companies have won a sizable niche of the Russian market.

Erdogan lamented Russia's intention to halt economic cooperation with Turkey, saying political leaders should talk first. "We are strategic partners," he said.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/turkey-releases-recording-warnings-russian-090006116.html#wkfdPHO

[Hervé]

Turkish F-16 attacked Russian Su-24 without warning, both were above Syria – commander (https://www.rt.com/news/323651-turkey-su24-downing-syria/)

Published time: 27 Nov, 2015 14:13
Edited time: 27 Nov, 2015 16:57


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.11/original/56586306c46188cd318b4574.jpg
Su-24 © Dmitriy Vinogradov / Sputnik



A Turkish fighter jet launched a missile at a Russian bomber on Tuesday well ahead of the Su-24 approaching the Turkish border, the chief of Russia’s Air Force said. The bomber remained on Turkish radars for 34 minutes and never received any warnings.
TrendsSu-24 downing (https://www.rt.com/trends/su-24-downing/)

The attack on the Russian Su-24 bomber was intentional and had been planned in advance, Viktor Bondarev, the chief of Russia’s Air Force, announced Friday, calling the incident an “unprecedented backstab.”

The commander shared with the media previously unknown details of what happened on Tuesday.

On November 24, a pair of Russian Sukhoi Su-24 tactical bombers took off from Khmeimim airbase in Latakia at 06:15 GMT, with an assignment to carry out airstrikes in the vicinity of the settlements of Kepir, Mortlu and Zahia, all in the north of Syria. Each bomber was carrying four OFAB-250 high-explosive fragmentation bombs.

Ten minutes later, the bombers entered the range of Turkish radars and took positions in the target area, patrolling airspace at predetermined heights of 5,800 meters and 5,650 meters respectively.

Both aircraft remained in the area for 34 minutes. During this time there was no contact between the crews of the Russian bombers and the Turkish military authorities or warplanes.

Some 20 minutes after arriving at the designated area, the crews received the coordinates of groups of terrorists in the region. After making a first run, the bombers performed a maneuver and then delivered a second strike.

Immediately after that, the bomber crewed by Lieutenant-Colonel Oleg Peshkov and Captain Konstantin Murakhtin was attacked by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet operating from the Diyarbakır airfield in Turkey.

To attack the Russian bomber with a close-range air-to-air missile, the Turkish fighter jet had to enter Syrian airspace, where it remained for about 40 seconds. Having launched its missile from a distance of 5-7 kilometers, the F-16 immediately turned towards the Turkish border, simultaneously dropping its altitude sharply, thus disappearing from the range of Russian radars at the Khmeimim airbase.

The Turkish fighter moved two kilometers into Syrian airspace while the Russian bomber at no stage violated Turkish airspace, Bondarev stressed.

The crew of the second Su-24M had a clear view of the moment the missile was fired from the Turkish F-16, and reported this to base.

Commander Bondarev noted that a pair of Turkish F-16Cs had been in the area close to the attack zone for more than an hour prior to the attack, which explains their presence in the area. The time needed to get the aircraft ready at the Diyarbakır airfield and travel to the attack zone is an estimated 46 minutes.

One of Turkish F-16Cs stopped its maneuvers and began to approach the Su-24M bomber about 100 seconds before the Russian aircraft came closest to the Turkish border, which also confirms the attack was pre-planned, Commander Bondarev stressed.

The chief of Russia’s Air Force also called attention to the readiness of the Turkish media, which released a professionally-made video of the incident recorded from an area controlled by extremists a mere 1.5 hours after the Su-24 was downed.

Commander Bondarev also mentioned the memorandum of understanding regarding the campaign in Syria, signed by Moscow and Washington on October 26. In accordance with this agreement, the Russian side informed its American counterparts about the mission of the two bombers in the north of Syria on November 24, including the zones and heights of operation.

Taking this into account, the Turkish authorities' statement on not knowing which aircraft were operating in the area raises eyebrows, Bondarev said.

The Turkish military not only violated all international laws on protecting national borders, but never delivered an apology for the incident or offered any help in the search and rescue operation for the Su-24 crew.

The Su-24’s pilot, Lieutenant-Colonel Oleg Peshkov, was shot dead by militants while parachuting to the ground, having ejected from the stricken aircraft. His partner, navigator Captain Konstantin Murakhtin, survived being shot at while parachuting and managed to stay alive on the ground in an area full of terrorists.

The rescue operation took several hours and eventually recovered Murakhtin, although one Russian Marine in the team was killed when the rescue helicopter was destroyed by a US-made tank missile launched by the extremists – an incident they filmed and published online.

Commander Bondarev specifically stressed that the Russian pilot who survived the attack was actively looked for not only by the jihadists, but also by a number of unidentified and technically well-equipped groups.

After Captain Murakhtin was rescued, the Russian Air Force delivered “more than massive, devastating” airstrikes against the militants in the region where the operation had been taking place, Bondarev reported.

[Hervé]

Turkey suspends Syria flights after crisis with Russia (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-suspends-syria-flights-after-crisis-with-russia.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91733&NewsCatID=352)

Deniz Zeyrek - ANKARA, November/27/2015


http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201511/n_91733_1.jpg
REUTERS photo



The Turkish army has suspended flights over Syria as part of an ongoing joint military campaign with the United States against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) after it shot down a Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) jetfighter, sparking an unprecedented crisis between Ankara (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Ankara) and Moscow.

The decision was taken following the eruption of the crisis with Russia (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) in which a Turkish F-16 downed a Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) warplane early Nov. 24 after it allegedly violated Turkish airspace, according to diplomatic sources.

Sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, stressed that the suspension of the Turkish jetfighters’ participation in the U.S.-led military operations against ISIL was in fact a mutual decision taken with Russia, which also halted its aerial campaigns near the Turkish border. Both parties will continue to be as careful as possible in a bid to avoid a repetition of such incidents until they re-establish dialogue channels to reduce the tension.

Turkish and Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) military officials held initial talks on the incident on Nov. 25 as the office of the Chief of General Staff invited defense and military attachés from the Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) Embassy to military headquarters to inform them about how the incident took place. However, there is still a need for high-level political meetings to let the two parties reconcile and reduce the tension.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu proposed to his Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, a meeting on Dec. 3 or 4 in Belgrade (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Belgrade) on the sidelines of an international conference. However, the Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) side has not yet confirmed that the meeting will take place.

Turkey-Russia hotline established in October
Following the downing of the plane, the existence of a memorandum from October emerged calling for the establishment of a special radio channel between Turkish and Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) warplanes.

Russia’s deputy Air Force commander, Maj. Gen. Sergei Dranov, visited Ankara (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Ankara) on Oct. 15 following consecutive airspace violations by Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) warplanes after Moscow started a massive military campaign in Syria on Sept. 30. The objective of the agreement and the establishment of the channel was to avoid potential confrontation between the two countries’ air forces, sources said.

The agreement was largely similar to one Russia (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) agreed on with the U.S., sources said. “Russia’s message to us during the Oct. 15 talks was like: ‘We use only one channel in Syria. Contact us through this channel to send your warnings to avoid problems.’ We accepted this, and we have issued all our warnings through this channel since then. As this channel is being used by the U.S. Air Force as well, warnings Turkey has made to Syria have been recorded by both the Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) air base [in Syria] and the Americans at İncirlik base [in Adana].”

Russia’s non-response regarded as threat
Although Turkish pilots reportedly warned two Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) warplanes 10 times in five minutes while they were approaching Turkish airspace, there was no response on this special radio channel, sources said.

“Despite the agreement with Russia, the fact that both warplanes did not communicate through this channel caused Turkish pilots to profile these planes as ‘Profile: Syria aircraft,’ and consider the situation a ‘serious threat’ as part of the military rules of engagement. One of the aircraft returned to Syrian airspace but the other that insisted on heading toward Hatay was downed by the F16s,” a source said.

Air Force commander aware
A military official also said the downing of the Russian (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tag/Russia) warplane occurred within the knowledge of Turkish Air Force Cmdr. Gen. Abidin Ünal and under the political instruction of Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu.

“Pilots have full authority and should follow a certain procedure in the implementation of the rules of engagement. In the ‘combat phase,’ pilots inform the base but do not seek consent. Every step pilots take in the emergency phase is followed by the relevant commanders. During the five-minute warning period, both Air Force Commander Gen. Ünal and Combat Air Force and Air Missile Defense Commander Lt. Gen. Mehmet Şanver were informed. The pilots succeeded in implementing the procedure as there was no negative command from either commander,” the official said.

[Hervé]

How come we don't hear from any of those:



26th Nov 2015, 09:56 #202 (http://www.pprune.org/9192239-post202.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/571040-turkish-f16-shoots-down-unidentified-aircraft-their-airspace-11.html#post9192239))
biddedout (http://www.pprune.org/members/148407-biddedout)

If the transmissions were made on guard it will have been monitored and recorded by hundreds of units and (if on VHF guard) will be on the tapes of any civil aircraft within 200 miles. The truth will be out there and will be on record.

It wouldn't take much digging for a good journo to seek verification of these recordings. Why don't they do this instead of just recycling the propaganda from all sides.... were these "warnings" ever made?

Radar map from Russian side:


http://img.vz.ru/upimg/960/960647.jpg
Red = Su-24; blue = F-16; grey = border

[Hervé]

Syrian Turkmen commander who 'killed' Russian pilot turns out to be Turkish ultranationalist (https://www.rt.com/news/323658-turkmen-commander-turkish-ultra/)

Published time: 27 Nov, 2015 15:16
Edited time: 27 Nov, 2015 17:46


http://www.sott.net/image/s14/284867/large/56585a5fc36188f5688b460c.jpg
© RT / DHA


A Syrian rebel commander who boasted of killing a Russian pilot after Turkey downed Russian jet on Tuesday appeared to be Turkish ultranationalist and a son of former mayor in one of Turkish provinces.

Alparslan Celik, deputy commander of a Syrian Turkmen brigade turned out to be the son of a mayor of a Keban municipality in Turkey’s Elazig province.

He also turned out to be the member of The Grey Wolves ultranationalist group, members of which have carried out scores of political murders since 1970s.

Celik came under spotlight after he announced that as the two Russian pilots descended by parachute after the Su-24 jet was downed by Turkish military, both were shot dead by Turkmen forces on Tuesday.

A graphic video posted earlier on social media purported to show a Russian pilot lying on the ground surrounded by a group of armed militants.

For more watch RT's William Whiteman’s report.


ymKnnMJjtFA

[greybeard]

Nato backs Turkey over downing of Russian fighter jet

Nato Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg offered support for Ankara on Tuesday (24 November) after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border. He rejected any suggestion that the incident happened outside of Turkey's borders.

Asked if there was any possibility that the plane was actually shot down inside Syria, Stoltenberg said: "The allied assessments that we have are consistent with the information we have from Turkey," he told a news conference in Brussels.

"I have previously expressed my concerns about the implications of the military actions of the Russian Federation close to Nato borders. This highlights the importance of having and respecting arrangements to avoid such incidents in the future. As we have repeatedly made clear we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our Nato ally."

"What we are calling for now is calm and de-escalation. This is a serious situation, this is a situation which calls on [prudence] and that we all contribute to de-escalating the situation," he added.

Russia has accused Turkey of shooting down one of its fighter jets nearly a mile inside Syria and Russian President Vladimir Putin and warned of "serious consequences."


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/nato-backs-turkey-over-downing-123941653.html

[Tangri]

This is not simple subject which can be explained with tail's pain guidance to prove who is right or wrong.

fjRRFULvTN4



USA is trowing Turkey to the lion's cage with his puppet(Erdogan) later It will come and divide the rest to the conspirators.

History shows us they tried after WWI but failed, they created too many tail's pained seed at the France.

[Tangri]

This is the old dreams' new attempt.

[Rocky_Shorz]

NATO just asked Turkey to move their tank batallian to where the Isis threat is, where they are pouring back and forth across the border... Why are they hiding behind a Kurdish town?

[Hervé]

The Erdogan Era is All But Over (http://journal-neo.org/2015/11/28/the-erdogan-era-is-all-but-over/)

Author: Petr Lvov (http://journal-neo.org/author/lvovp/) 28.11.2015


http://ru.journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/turkey-politics-media-rights-demo-300x225.jpg (http://ru.journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/turkey-politics-media-rights-demo.jpg)


There’s little doubt now in NATO circles and among the leading countries of the alliance – the US, Britain, France, Germany that the downing of Russia’s bomber Su-24 was indeed an act of aggression. In fact, the Turkish Air Force has been trying to ambush Russian bombers in border areas for days. Everything was planned, including the presence of professional cameramen from a Turkish channel.

Once Washington acknowledged that the Turkish Air Force shot down a Russian bomber over Syria, Ankara has been desperately trying to push the blame on Obama in order to hide behind Washington’s back. On November 26 a number of Turkish TV-stations presented reports that the downing was allegedly approved by Barack Obama at the G-20 summit in Antalya. But it’s way too late, Erdogan is caught at a murder scene with blood on his hands. His political career is almost finished – the murderers of Russian pilots have no place in politics. There’s a already a contender for his post – Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who considerably strengthened his positions in the recent elections.

Experts from around the the world have been guessing what Russia’s response will be, for now one can already name a number of steps that Moscow has made:


Complete ban of any tourist trips to Turkey. It will take no more than two weeks. There will be no cheap trips, no charters, no nothing. This will result in approximately 3.5 billion dollars lost by Turkey in just one year.



Preparations for “retaliation” strikes. To fulfill this goal Russia has deployed the high-end anti-air systems S-400 Triumf near Latakia. This has de facto created a no-fly zone over Syria for the Turkish Air Force.



Russia is reducing the number of Moscow of Turkish being sold at Russian markets. This will affect both food and industrial consumer goods. Turkey will be losing up to 2 billion dollars annually due to this step.



Russia has closed all the projects that were connected with Turkey, including the construction of nuclear power plants. At the same time it will ban the activities of a number of Turkish companies in Russia.



Russia is beginning to work in close political and military cooperations with the Kurdish political forces – the main threat to the central government in Ankara. This will strike a severe blow to Turkey’s political stability. Especially in a situation when Erdogan’s positions in Turkey are not nearly as strong as they look. He faces a number of serious contradictions within the ruling party, let alone the military circles.

But the most severe blow by far to Erdogan personally is an extensive media coverage of his relations with ISIL and the role his family plays in the smuggling business. It has been proved that president’s son Bilal works for Erdogan’s classmate and childhood friend who delivers stolen oil to Ukraine, Japan and a number of Asian countries. Revenue from these activities amounts to the staggering 5 billion dollars a year, with 2 billions going back to ISIL command structures for them to pay “salaries” to militants and purchase arms.

Moreover, the Erdogan family is involved in the production and trafficking of synthetic drugs. If there’s journalists openly stating that on TV channels, one can be sure that the law enforcement agencies have already accumulated all the evidences needed to prosecute all of Erdogan’s family members.

Therefore, as soon as the Turkish society starts associating Erdogan’s family with ISIL, it will associates it with the terrorist attacks carried out by ISIL in Turkey, the attacks that helped the ruling AKP party win the last parliamentary re-elections.

[...]

Full article: http://journal-neo.org/2015/11/28/the-erdogan-era-is-all-but-over/

[greybeard]

I cant help but feel that some good will come of this.
Maybe I am a born optimist--it just seems that "perpetrators" who work against the human good are being found out, exposed faster and more readily than before and people overall are less likely to defend, be loyal, to their belief that the person, Government, they voted for is acting in their best interests.

chris

[greybeard]

Kremlin says Putin 'fully mobilised' to tackle threat from Turkey


By Andrew Osborn and Polina Devitt

MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin is fully mobilised to tackle what the Kremlin regards as an unprecedented threat from Turkey following the shooting down of one of its warplanes by a Turkish F-16, the Russian leader's spokesman said on Saturday.

In comments which underscore how angry the Kremlin still is over the incident, Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman, called the behaviour of the Turkish air force "absolute madness" and said Ankara's subsequent handling of the crisis had reminded him of the "theatre of the absurd."

"Nobody has the right to traitorously shoot down a Russian plane from behind," Peskov told Russia's "News on Saturday" TV programme, calling Turkish evidence purporting to show the Russian SU-24 jet had violated Turkish air space "cartoons".

Peskov said the crisis had prompted Putin, whose ministers are preparing retaliatory economic measures against Turkey, to "mobilise" in the way an army does in tense times.

"The president is mobilised, fully mobilised, mobilised to the extent that circumstances demand," said Peskov.

"The circumstances are unprecedented. The gauntlet thrown down to Russia is unprecedented. So naturally the reaction is in line with this threat."

Peskov said Putin was aware of a Turkish request for him to meet President Tayyip Erdogan on the sidelines of the Paris climate change conference next week but gave no indication of whether such a meeting would take place.

Erdogan on Saturday said the Paris summit could be a chance to repair Ankara's relations with Russia.

Peskov denied Turkish press reports which said Moscow and Ankara had struck a deal for their warplanes to stop flying along the Syrian-Turkish border, saying military ties between the two countries had been severed and a hot line meant to avoid misunderstandings among their pilots dismantled.

Peskov, according to the TASS news agency, also spoke of how Erdogan's son had a "certain interest" in the oil industry. Putin has said oil from Syrian territory controlled by Islamic State militants is finding its way to Turkey.

Erdogan has spoken of slander and asked anyone making such accusations to back up their words with evidence.

Peskov said he "noted" that Turkey's newly-appointed energy minister, Berat Albayrak, was Erdogan's son-in-law.

Peskov said there could be up to 200,000 Turkish citizens on Russian soil.

"What's important is that everyone who is able to use their influence to guarantee at least some predictability in the pattern of Turkey's behaviour," said Peskov. "Russian planes should never be shot down."

(Editing by Dominic Evans)



https://uk.news.yahoo.com/kremlin-says-putin-fully-mobilised-tackle-threat-turkey-154004226.html#mTCSiVw

[ThePythonicCow]

I cant help but feel that some good will come of this.
I feel that too.

This keeps reminding me of when we blessed Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait with a wink and a nod, only to turn around and use that as an excuse to crush his military in the first Gulf War (first as in umpteenth in a list that is now umpty-umpteen long).

Only this time, it was Obama giving the wink and a nod to Erdogan, and Putin doing the crushing. Perhaps Obama and Putin cooperated on this, ahead of time. Or perhaps it was some over-zealous neocon-zionists in Obama's government, overplaying their hand, unbeknownst to Obama.

[Morbid]

to be honest this incidend gotta be a provocation.. how else would cnn, reuters, fox etc had their correspondents at that exact location being around the group that shot at parashooting pilot for days? coincidence?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FZpbz2OpCMo/maxresdefault.jpg

[Hervé]

Turkey stopped violating Greek airspace after Russian Su-24 downing - Athens source (https://www.rt.com/news/323861-turkey-greek-airspace-violations/)
(https://www.rt.com/news/323861-turkey-greek-airspace-violations/)
Published time: 29 Nov, 2015 08:56


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.11/original/565aa293c461884e328b4567.jpg
Turkish F-16 fighter jets fly in formation during a parade in Istanbul © Fatih Saribas / Reuters


Turkish warplanes abruptly ceased violating Greek airspace after downing a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 bomber on November 24. Previously, air intrusions made by Turkish fighter jets took place on a daily basis and amounted to thousands a year.

The data comes from a diplomatic source in Athens, cited by RIA Novosti.

The last time Turkish warplanes were spotted in Greek airspace was on November 25, when six jets, two of them carrying weapons, entered the neighbor’s aerial domain.

Intrusions of Turkish jets into Greek national airspace remain a constant headache for Athens. Turkey and Greece, while partners in NATO, have been adversaries for centuries. The two nations have warred with each other before and still have territorial disputes.

In particular 2014 was marked with a sharp increase of Greek airspace violations by the Turkish Air Force, which amounted to 2,244 incidents. From January to October 2015, Greece’s airspace was violated by Turkish warplanes 1,233 times, including 31 flights over Greek territory itself, according to the Greek Air Force’s headquarters. In November, before the downing of the Russian bomber, there were at least 50 registered airspace violations.

Turkish jets habitually intrude into Greek airspace over disputed islands in the Aegean Sea, provoking the Greek Air Force to scramble fighter jets to intercept. Such airborne rendezvous often end with mock dogfights, with pilots performing real lock-ons of their air-to-air missiles onto their NATO partner’s aircraft.

Athens has repeatedly raised the matter at NATO meetings. Greece’s representative to NATO last reported Turkish violations of their national airspace on November 24. The reaction of other NATO member states has been usually to sit on the fence, and Ankara continued to test Athen’s patience.

When Turkey shot down the Russian bomber on Tuesday, Greek Foreign Minister Nikas Kotzias expressed solidarity with Russia in a phone conversation with his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov.

“Athens agrees with the Russian president’s assessment on Ankara’s hostile actions, which are contrary to the goals of the anti-ISIS coalition,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said, as reported by RIA Novosti.

Greece, according to its Foreign Ministry, “especially comprehends provocative moves by Turkey given regular multiple violations of Greek air space by Ankara lasting for years.”

According to Greece’s General Staff, on November 24, the day a Turkish F-16 fighter jet fired an air-to-air missile at Russia’s bomber, the Turkish Air Force made no violations of Greek airspace for the first time in a long period.

Once the Russian warplane went down in flames, “there was zero activity of Turkish aviation in Greek FIR in the Aegean Sea, and it is understandable why,” RIA Novosti cited a diplomatic source in Athens.

The Turkish Air Force also halted strikes on Syrian territory after Russia deployed S-400 long-range air defense complexes at the Khmeimim airbase in Syria’s Latakia, from where the Russian Air Force strikes Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL).


================================


History of Turkey's violation of Greek airspace:


http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/CKh0VcX-1.jpg

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2015/11/20151125_Turkish_AirforceForbes.jpg

[giovonni]

Something much bigger than baking a Turkey is happening here ... :)

Survival Expert: Russia vs Turkey Is The Beginning To WWIII


Survival expert joel skousen breaks down the fast moving events in Syria as Russia mobilizes for war following the shoot down of its plane earlier in the week and Turkey claims Russia is “playing with fire” as its lucrative stolen oil business is targeted by the Russians

Published on Nov 29, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZkYk99n0w

[Hervé]

'17 Seconds': No One’s Buying Turkey’s Version of Su-24 Story
(http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030699146/questioning-turkey-airspace-story.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FSFpze4CnY8&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=agVW&utm_campaign=URL_shortening)
© Sputnik/ Dmitriy Vinogradov 01:53 25.11.2015
(updated 03:34 25.11.2015)


[...]

The Turkish government’s official explanation for shooting down a Russian Su-24 bomber was that it had violated Turkish airspace. But Ankara’s timeline of the events is already raising questions.
In the wake of the downing of a Russian bomber along the Turkey-Syria border on Tuesday, many were demanding answers. In a letter to the United Nations Security Council, the Turkish ambassador gave his government’s view of the incident.


http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/103069/53/1030695346.png
© YouTube/RT Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace (http://sputniknews.com/military/20151124/1030695406/mod-su-24-flight-path.html)



"This morning (24 November) 2 SU-24 planes, the nationality of which are unknown have approached Turkish national airspace in Yayladagi/Hatay region. The planes in question have been warned 10 times during a period of 5 minutes via 'Emergency' channel and asked to change their headings south immediately," the letter, obtained by Wikileaks, reads.
"Disregarding these warnings, both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds from 9.24.05 local time."But many social media users have begun crunching those numbers and found that they don’t quite add up.



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/512138307870785536/Fe00yVS2_bigger.png WikiLeaks Verified account ‏@wikileaks (https://twitter.com/wikileaks)

Journalists: Learn to do basic maths. Look at Turkey's statement to UN: 1.15 miles / 17 seconds x 60 x 60 = 243 miles/hour = 391 km/hour When calculating the distance flown and the amount of time allegedly spent in Turkish airspace, some have attempted to determine the aircraft’s flight speed. According to those numbers, the Su-24 would have had to be flying at stall speed.

Earlier on Tuesday, the Russian Ministry of Defense also released video proving that the incident did not happen the way the Turkish government claims. Flight path data of the Su-24 shows that it never entered Turkish airspace, and was attacked while flying over Syria.



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/477768565257285632/amOQXhSe_bigger.jpeg Christopher Justice ‏@CopenhagenCrit (https://twitter.com/CopenhagenCrit)

@wikileaks (https://twitter.com/wikileaks) Really? In 17 seconds they did decide and shoot while ON TR? Only a kindergarten kid could buy this nonsense. [...]



[...]
As well as denying Ankara’s assertions that the plane was in Turkey’s airspace, Murakhtin also refuted Turkish officials’ claim that the pilots were warned repeatedly.

“In actual fact there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,” said Murakhtin, who is currently recuperating at Russia’s airbase in Latakia, in northern Syria.
[... ]

Some credible corroboration from a PPRuNe contributor:

24th Nov 2015, 11:04 #29 (http://www.pprune.org/9190174-post29.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/571040-turkish-f16-shoots-down-unidentified-aircraft-their-airspace-2.html#post9190174))

The downed fighter jet was warned 10 times in 5 minutes according to a statement released by the Turkish Armed Forces
In what language?

One presumes in English, as that is likely to be the only common language. But in my experience the Turkish military English is as bad as Russian military English. In which case, there is ample room for confusion, especially when a military pilot is very busy planning an active sortie.Transmitting a warning is not the same thing as that warning being received and ignored, no matter what the language in use. I've got 153 combat missions under my belt and there were plenty of times my side was unsuccessful when trying to communicate with me while on a mission.

I've also made a number of non-combat intercepts of Russian bombers and not once were they able to make contact with me (and vice versa), although they were able to hold up the latest issue of Playboy magazine for my viewing pleasure.

The press may assume the Turkish warning was received and ignored, but we pilots, especially those with combat experience, should be more prudent and not jump to conclusions.


More corroborations for the above:

Belgian Physicists Calculate that Everyone Is Lying About the Downed Russian Jet (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/29/belgian-physicists-calculate-that-everyone-is-lying-about-the-downed-russian-jet/)

By GPD (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/admin/) on November 29, 2015

It’s rare to see physics being used as an effective tool to comment on current events, but astrophysicists Tom van Doorsslaere and Giovanni Lapenta of the Belgian KU Leuven used some simple Newtonian mechanics to show that both the Russian and Turkish accounts of what happened with the downed jet can’t be right.

Using video of the incident and the maps provided by Turkish and Russian officials, they show in a post on a blog run by KU Leuven (http://kuleuvenblogt.be/2015/11/27/russische-straaljager-neergeschoten-door-turkije-wat-vertelt-de-wetenschap-ons/) that what went down couldn’t possibly have happened as both parties present it.

First, the “facts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12015465/Turkey-shoots-down-Russia-jet-live.html).” The downed jet was shot down by the Turkish military (http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html) Tuesday because the pilot reportedly ignored several warnings about entering Turkish airspace. Turkish officials say the military warned the jets ten times in a period of five minutes. When these warnings went unheeded, the Turkish prime minister himself gave the command to take the jets down, according to several reports. Both jet fighters were in Turkish airspace for just 17 seconds (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12015465/Turkey-shoots-down-Russia-jet-live.html), Turkish officials say.

And now, the science. In the video of the incident, which was posted online, it can be seen that one of the two jets got hit and starts crashing to the ground. The jet takes approximately 30 seconds to hit the ground. “Because the vertical movement is only dependent on gravity (g=9.81m/s², z=gt²/2), we can calculate that the plane was moving at a height of at least 4500 meters,” the phisicists write in their blog. “That number is consistent with the Turkish statement of the jets being at an altitude of 19,000 feet (5800 meters).”


http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/28243/1448640979981801.JPG
Map provided by Turkish officials. Image via New York Times (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2015/11/24/turkey-russia-shootdown/5bbbe2ab6ce139b31fd17dde33eedfee24fc700b/IMG_8950.JPG)


On the map provided by Turkish officials, it can be seen that the plane crashed eight kilometers from the place it was hit. The jet traveled those eight kilometers from the time it was hit until the time it crashed. A simple division gives an initial speed of 980 km/h, a perfectly acceptable speed for an aircraft travling at that altitude. So far, so good.

Then, the physicists take that speed and compare it to the distance the jets traveled in Turkish airspace according to the Turkish map, around 2 kilometers. When flying at a speed of 980 km/h, an object would cover that distance in seven seconds, instead of the 17 seconds according to Turkish reports. To cross that distance in 17 seconds, the plane should have been traveling at a meager 420 km/h. The video shows this simply could not be true, if the crash site is accurate. Physics 1, Turkey 0.

The Turkish airforce says it warned the fighter jets ten times in five minutes. In five minutes, an aeroplane traveling at 980 km/h would cross a distance of about 80 kilometers. From these facts, the professors conclude: “How could the Turkish airforce predict that the Russian jets were about to enter Turkish airspace? Military jets are very agile, and in theory the Russian jets could have turned at the last moment to avoid Turkish airspace. The warnings issued to the Russian pilots were mere speculation at the moment they were made.”

According to those facts, the warnings couldn’t possibly have been issued in the time the jets were in Turkish territory. Unless Turkish air controllers can speak impossibly fast, issuing ten warnings in seven seconds seems kinda improbable. Physics 2, Turkey 0.

In issues like these, there’s never one party to blame. This is international geopolitics, a discipline in which the truth is as malleable as Play-Doh.


http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/28243/1448641019089194.png
The map that was spread by Russian officials. Image via Ku Leuven Blogt (http://kuleuvenblogt.be/2015/11/27/russische-straaljager-neergeschoten-door-turkije-wat-vertelt-de-wetenschap-ons/)


On the Russian map, it can be seen that the plane makes a ninety degree turn after it was hit, which is quite impossible. According to the physicists, the only way this could be achieved is if the momentum of the incoming rocket was so much larger than the momentum of the jet that the latter would be negligible. “A change of course of 90 degrees can only be achieved with an object that’s many times heavier or faster than the jet,” the physicists write. From this we can conclude that the jets were not actively trying to avoid Turkish territory, which is the Russian side of the story. Physics 3, Turkey 0, Russia 0.

You’re free to decide what political conclusions you arrive at with this information. The authors don’t mention the whole political situation, they just focus trying to distill facts out of the observable information: a rare and admirable thing in a time in which almost everything comes with some political spin.

This article originally appeared on Motherboard Netherlands (http://motherboard.vice.com/nl/read/wiskundigen-van-de-ku-leuven-berekenden-dat-iedereen-liegt-over-die-straaljager).


=====================================


The trouble with the physicists in this case (Russian map) is that they think in terms of inert billiard balls, not in terms of thinking, manned, flying billiard balls. Because, if I were the pilot of that Su-24, once hit, I would do anything NOT to keep flying toward Turkish territory before bailing out...


http://img.vz.ru/upimg/960/960647.jpg
Red = Su-24; blue = F-16; grey = border

[Hervé]

Greek Defense Ministry confirms Russian Su-24M bomber was downed in Syrian airspace
(http://tass.ru/en/defense/840960)
December 2, 2015; 16:50 UTC+3


http://photocdn1.itar-tass.com/fit/333x9999_4ec25037/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20151201/1116189.jpg (http://tass.ru/en/defense/840554)


Asked which side Greece should take, as a NATO member, Greek Minister of National Defense Panos Kammenos said - "the truth" ATHENS, December 2. /TASS/. The Russian Sukhoi Su-24M bomber was brought down by the Turkish Air Force in Syrian airspace, Greek Minister of National Defense Panos Kammenos said in an interview to the Mega TV channel on Wednesday.

“The attack (on Su-24M) took place in Syrian airspace. This is beyond doubt,” he said. “The Turkish side knows that, otherwise Ankara would ask to invoke Article 5 of the NATO Charter, requesting the Alliance’s help.” “This is undoubtedly a military action in the territory of another state,” Kammenos said. “But even more important point is the murder of the pilot, who was shot dead by members of the Turkish extremist group Grey Wolves.”

Asked which side Greece should take, as a NATO member, the minister said – “the truth”. “If Russia had violated Turkish airspace, we would support Ankara”, the defense minister said.

An F-16 fighter jet of the Turkish Air Force shot down Russia’s Su-24M bomber on Tuesday, November 24. Ankara claims the Su-24M bomber violated the Turkish airspace in the area of the border with Syria. However, Russia’s Defense Ministry has said the Su-24M plane stayed exclusively over the Syrian territory and “there was no violation of the Turkish air space.”

Turkey’s F-16 fighter that shot down the Russian Aerospace Forces’ Sukhoi Su-24M bomber was in Syria’s airspace for 40 seconds and went inside its territory by 2 kilometers, while the Russian bomber did not violate the Turkish state border, the commander-in-chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces, Viktor Bondarev, said on November 27. “In line with air defense means objective control materials, the Turkish plane was in Syria’s airspace for 40 seconds and flew two kilometres inside its territory, whereas the Russian bomber did not violate the state border of Turkey,” Bondarev said. He said the crew of the second Su-24 plane confirmed the launch of the missile from the F-16. After the combat employment at the mentioned target and left turn to 130-degree course “it observed on the left side of it flame and a tail of white smoke, which it reported to the flight operations director,” he said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned that the attack on the bomber will have “serious consequences” for the Russian-Turkish relations. According to Putin, the Turkish Air Force’s attack on the Russian combat plane that took part in the operation against terrorists in Syria and posed no threat to Turkey is a “stab in the back of Russia.” The crew of the Su-24M bomber managed to eject but one of the pilots was killed by gunfire from the ground. The second pilot was rescued and taken to the Russian airbase. Two Mi-8 helicopters were engaged in the pilots’ rescue operation. One of the helicopters came under fire and had to make an emergency landing. One Russian contract marine was killed by militants in the operation. The rest soldiers on board the helicopter were evacuated. The downed Mi-8 helicopter was later destroyed by mortar fire from the territory controlled by militants.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said, speaking at the ceremony of the presentation of credentials by new foreign ambassadors on Thursday that Turkey was steering the relations into the gridlock as it neither apologized nor offered to repair the damage, nor promised to punish those responsible. “We have not heard yet apologies from the highest political level of Turkey. Nor do we hear proposals to repair the damage or promises to punish the perpetrators for the committed crime,” Putin said. “One gets the impression that the Turkish leadership is steering deliberately the Russian-Turkish relations into the dead end, which is regrettable,” he added.

In an interview with CNN, Erdogan warned Moscow that Turkey would take steps if its warplane were downed by the Russian S-400 missile system in case it violated the Syrian airspace. “I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us,” he said. “Those who violated our airspace are the ones who need to apologize.”

[Hervé]

BOMBSHELL: Ambush of Russian Bomber Was Guided by US Reconnaissance
(http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/bombshell-turkish-attack-russian-su-24-was-guided-us-and-saudis-reconnassaince-aircraft)
Alexey Leonkov (http://russia-insider.com/en/alexey-leonkov) (Regnum - Russian news agency (http://russia-insider.com/en/regnum_-_russian_news_agency_0)) Mon, Nov 30 |


This is what you would call 'a stab in the back' of the leader of the anti-terrorist forces


http://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/styles/s400/public/regnum_picture_1448530479743939_big.jpg?itok=A1d6yieL (http://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/regnum_picture_1448530479743939_big.jpg)


A Russian military expert and columnist of the journal Arsenal of the Fatherland explains the details of the downing of the bomber and why not all went smoothly in an interview to the news agency Regnum (http://regnum.ru/news/polit/2021108.html)

How did it all happen?
A U.S. Air Force Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS plane took off on 24 November from the Preveza airbase in Greece. A second E-3A of the Saudi Arabian air force took off from the Riyadh airbase. Both planes were executing a common task—determining the precise location of Russian aircraft. It is they that picked the “victim.”

The American E-3A was supposed to determine the activity of the Su-24M2's onboard targeting radar, to determine if it was in search mode or if it had already locked on to a target and was processing launch data. It is known that the AWACS can direct the activity of aircraft in battle, conveying information to their avionics and flight computers.

That is, to determine how defenseless was our plane?
As it turns out, yes. As we know, the Su-24M2 was returning from its mission, and its flight computer was operating in “navigation” mode in tandem with the GLONASS [Russian GPS system.] It was returning to base and was not preparing for action. The whole time, the E-3s were transferring detailed information about the Su-24M2 to a pair of Turkish F-16CJ's. This plane [the F-16CJ] had been specifically built for Turkey. Its distinctive feature is a computer that controls a new, AN/APG-68 radar system, and which fulfills the role of a copilot-navigator.

But this information is obviously not enough to precision-strike a small target. Was something else used?
Indeed, the interception accuracy of the F-16CJ fighters was augmented by ground-based U.S. Patriot air defense systems, which are deployed in Turkey, or more precisely, their multirole AN/MPQ-53 radars. The Patriot can work with an E-3 or with MENTOR spy satellites, and it can't be ruled out that the satellite assets involved the Geosat space system as well.

The flight trajectory of the F-16CJ indicates a precision interception of its target by means of triangulation: A pair of E-3s plus the Patriot's air defense radar plus the geostationary MENTOR spy satellites plus, possibly, the Geosat space system.

Besides which, the E-3s provided guidance as to the location of our plane in the air; they determined its route, speed, and the status of its weapons control systems; and the Patriot's air defense radar together with the MENTOR spy satellite provided telemetry on the SU-24M2's movement relative to the ground surface—that is, it provided a precise prediction as to where our plane would be visible relative to the mountainous terrain.

So it turns out that the Turkish fighters knew with absolutely certainty where to wait in ambush for our plane?
Of course. A pair of F-16CJ's flew to the [missile] launch zone and, at a distance of 4-6 kilometers, practically point blank!, launched an AIM-9X Sidewinder air-to-air missile into the rear hemisphere of our Russian bomber. Besides which, the AN/APG-68 onboard radar of the fighter which launched the missile, was working in “target illumination” mode. That is, it turned on at the moment of launch, and turned off as soon as the missile definitively locked on to its target.

Did our pilots have a chance to save their plane?
No. The Su-24M2 crew's probability of escaping destruction was equal to zero…
…Turkey does not have its own capabilities for such a detailed and very precise operation. And don't forget about the second E-3, from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The whole scenario was very fast-moving, lasting just seconds.

Did it really happen that smoothly?
The Turks nonetheless committed one mistake, which led to their provocation not quite working out. The F-16CJ went out on its interception two minutes late, when the Su-24M2 had already left the disputed 68-kilometer zone in the north of Syria [this may be referring to the Turk's self-styled no-fly-zone against Assad]; to leave it required at most 1.5 minutes. But the “kill” command to the F-16CJ had not been revoked; thus the missile launch was carried out a bit further than the intended point. This is confirmed by the fact that the [Turkish TV] footage of the Su-24M2's fall was planned to be filmed from both Syrian territory and Turkish territory; however, the “Syrian footage” is more detailed. It appears that this saved our navigator. He was able to go into the woods and wait for a rescue team.

[Hervé]

F-16 Designer: Turkey Set up an Ambush for Unsuspecting Russian Su-24
(http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/11/f-16-designer-turkey-set-up-an-ambush-for-unsuspecting-russian-su-24/)
By GPD (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/admin/) on December 11, 2015


http://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/103159/11/1031591172.jpg



Pierre Sprey, a highly respected US defense analyst who was on the team that developed the F-16, says that he has no doubt whatsoever that the Turkish Air Force attack on the Russian Su-24M bomber over Syria last month was the result of a well-planned ambush.

Asked for comment by Harper’s Magazine (http://harpers.org/blog/2015/12/mountain-ambush/) on the Turkish F-16 shoot down of a Russian Su-24M over Syria near the Turkish border, Sprey noted that after carrying out a close analysis of both Russian and Turkish materials on the attack, “the evidence looks pretty strong that the Turks were setting up an ambush.”

It’s obvious, according to Sprey, that the Turkish F-16s were not just patrolling their borders, but carrying out a special assignment, circling for over an hour at an extremely low altitude waiting for the Russian planes.

“They certainly weren’t doing anything that would point to a routine air patrol along the border,” the analyst noted. “Their actions in no way represented a routine, all day long type of patrol.”Sprey recalled that the Su-24M bombers’ targets were in an area about five miles (about 8 kilometers) south of the Turkish border, near an important border crossing harboring tribesmen sympathetic to al-Nusra and Daesh (ISIL).

Noting that the Turkish planes had flown around in an area 25 miles (40 km) north of the border crossing for nearly an hour-and-a-half, “the crucial thing,” the analyst said, was that “they were not loitering up at high altitude –say twenty to thirty thousand feet – to conserve fuel, which is where you would normally be loitering if you were simply doing a routine border patrol. They were loitering quite low, at about 7,500 to eight thousand feet…below the coverage of the Syrian and Russian radars down around Latakia.”

Given their distance (over 400 km) from their home base, and their low altitude loitering, Sprey suggested that the F-16s were probably topped up on fuel from the air, which again points to the idea that it was an ambush.

“…It’s now about 10:15. The Russian Su-24s are just finishing their racetrack pattern after their first strike and are about to re-attack from the holding position well east of the target. At that point, the two F-16s break out of their loiter patterns to fly in a straight line south, quite certainly under Turkish ground control because they clearly are not hunting for the Su-24s and following a curved path, they’re heading straight for an intercept point that apparently ground control has provided them.” In the analyst’s words, following the attack, the Turkish plane executed a turn, again dove under eight thousand feet to avoid Syrian radar, and actually penetrated Syrian airspace “before [heading] north to go home to Diyarbakir, probably at that point out of fuel and hooking up with a tanker again in order to make it home.”Suggesting that it remains unclear whether the violation of Turkish airspace, even for 17 seconds as the Turks claim, actually took place, Sprey noted that in any case, their planes did not attack the Russian plane on its first attack run, “but simply sat and waited until the plane flew a long re-attack pattern and came back on a second run seven or eight minutes later, and that’s when they attacked and shot him down.”

Ultimately, the analyst suggested, “between the fuel-guzzling low altitude of the holding pattern of the F-16s, which miraculously coincided with the flight times of the Russian airplanes, and the fact that they didn’t even chase the airplane immediately upon its alleged border incursion, all that smells very much like a pre-planned operation.”

“Such an ambush,” Sprey noted, “wouldn’t have been hard to pull off, because the Russians, in their detailed account of this, state very clearly that they had coordinated with NATO, with the Americans, announcing this attack well in advance, and had followed the protocol of listening on the NATO-agreed frequency for any warnings or alerts from NATO or from the Turks.”

As for the Turks’ supposed radio warnings, the analyst noted that they may have of the kind that were not intended to be received: “Now it so happens that Su-24s have no radios onboard for receiving UHF-frequency signals, a fact which is well known to American, NATO and Turkish intelligence.” Thus, while “it’s likely true that the Turks radioed warnings…those warnings may have been deliberately transmitted only on the international civilian frequency so that the Su-24s would never hear them.”

Commenting on Russia’s deployment of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system in response to the Turkish attack, the analyst suggested that while it will not completely preclude the Turks from interfering in Russian strikes in the area, “it’s a hell of a threat” Russia “may or may not be able to prevent a hidden Turkish fighter from firing at another Russian aircraft in the border area, but they certainly have the possibility of catching him or his friends on the way home.”

Related:
‘Utterly Confused’ US No-Fly Zones Target Syrian Government, Russia (http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151211/1031572011/no-fly-zones-syria.html)

[giovonni]

Putin: No perspective to cooperate with Turkish leadership on highest level



From - Putin annual media Q&A marathon 2015 (FULL PRESSER)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7fsXGWiuDc&feature=youtu.be)
The Russian President is holding his 11th annual news conference with a special focus on international events. Similar Q&A sessions in the past have lasted up to several hours. The record was set in 2008, when Vladimir Putin spent 4 hours and 40 minutes speaking with journalists.

READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/6zp2

Published on Dec 17, 2015


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3GfXsjb8qA

[Hervé]

Foreign experts, journalists verify unsealing of Turkey-downed Russian Su-24 flight recorder (https://www.rt.com/news/326384-flight-recorder-unsealing-video/)

Published time: 18 Dec, 2015 07:38
Edited time: 18 Dec, 2015 21:12



http://www.sott.net/image/s14/289817/large/blackbox.jpg
© RT



The Russian military have invited experts from 14 nations to work on the flight recorder of the Russian Su-24 bomber downed by Turkey, but only two of them accepted their invitations, the Defense Ministry reported, before unsealing the device.

The experts who agreed to participate in the study of the flight recorder, which is to provide further evidence into the highly controversial incident, come from the UK and China, Lieut. Gen, Sergey Dronov, deputy commander of the Russian Air and Space Forces, told the media.

The International Society of Air Safety Investigators (ISASI) has confirmed that the black boxes from the Russian Su-24 were decoded objectivity and impartiality, Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) said.

Turkey shot down the Russian warplane on November 24 as it was conducting an anti-terrorist mission in a region close to the Turkish border. Ankara says it used force in response to a 17-second violation of its airspace and was fully justified in doing so.

Moscow denies that any violation happened, a statement that the flight recorder may help to confirm. The device was recovered by Syrian and Russian troops shortly after the incident and transported to Russia for investigation. Moscow pledged that the study of the flight recorder would be carried out with maximum transparency to avoid any shadow of doubt that it had been tampered with.

The unsealing of the flight recorder was performed on camera on Friday. Technicians extracted three circuit boards with memory chips, some of which appeared to be damaged. Lieutenant General Sergey Baynetov, who heads the flight safety service of the Russian armed forces, told journalists that investigators would soon inform how much information could be read from the memory chips.

The boards were locked in a safe after extraction. The commission said a preliminary report into their findings may be expected Monday.