Buy or build your next desktop computer? [Archive] - The Project Avalon Community Forum

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mojo

5th December 2015, 22:56

Andynko

5th December 2015, 23:23

I am also a fan of a custom PC build.
Actually it’s what I do for a living, & every time I find there are far more benefits to putting one together yourself if you have the time and knowledge to do so.

Also its fun:-)

Hip Hipnotist

5th December 2015, 23:30

I'm not that computer savvy so would like some feedback on whether to build or buy a complete desktop system. I have a desktop tower to start with and below I posted a gamer PC build only because thought it would also be a great video editing platform, thanks...

mDwjyI7C64I

Except for one 'store bought' and aside from laptops I've always built my own desktop systems. For the $$ you get much more. It's good if you like 'tinkering' some what but it's not like you need a degree in electronics or even need a soldering iron. In fact these days it's pretty much 'snap it together'.

If you were to purchase a pre-built dedicated video editing platform you'd spend pretty much in the neighborhood of $1000 +++. Build your own and 1/2 or even less. You will need to research components etc. but once you build your own you'll never go back. In fact the one I'm working with now I built over 5 years ago and it still performs like factory new.

One tip for anyone with a computer ( isn't that just about everyone? ) :

CLEAN THE SUCKER!!

If it's a desktop open the case and blow the crap out of it with a can of dust off. heck, just blow it out with your breath rather than doing nothing -- which is just about 95% of the computer owning public. Nothing worse then heat building up ( from dirt/dust ) to destroy your $$ investment. I use to repair them. I know. If it's a laptop blow out the keypad and exhaust fans on the bottom/sides.

You'll thank me.

And no charge.

This time. :ROFL:

BTW: I didn't watch the video you posted.

Andynko

5th December 2015, 23:35

Couldn't agree more!
a custom PC build is always a sound invest,ent in time and money in my opinion! :-)

Carmody

6th December 2015, 00:56

I've been building my own since the first 8088 and 8086 clones appeared.

Sith73

6th December 2015, 01:29

I have always built my own computer. Its alot of fun.

Bob

6th December 2015, 01:31

I want to point out, on some motherboards, and hard drives, some manufacturers have used a capacitor in the motherboard, and or power supply or hard drive board which was a substandard ripoff, a chinese capacitor which within a year or two of being powered up, the capacitor(s) would fail, and the hard drive and motherboard would be lost..

So Look at TOMS HARDWARE for reviews by builders, and get a good idea of what is current, what is the old standby, and how to optimize your newly built system.

reference: TOMS HARDWARE dot COM http://www.tomshardware.com/

article on bad Chinese capacitors - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/128452-28-intel-motherboards-capacitors-resurface

Mobo makers commented that equipping mobos with Taiwan-made capacitors may lead to potential RMA issues after two years of use.

I've had one mobo fail in one year, and saw that a class action suit was brought against the manufacturer of the motherboard. Same thing happened with leading brand hard drives which used the defective capacitor line.

Hard drive failures - link to article: http://www.geek.com/chips/ic-failures-linked-to-bad-resin-recipe-554945/

http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/09/12/haynes_build_your_own_computer_2.jpg

Also this link: http://www.pctools.com/security-news/faulty-capacitors/

The capacitor problem was not just for BUILDER MOTHERBOARDS, and Disk drives, but major off-the-shelf manufacturers got caught up, trying to save a buck or two on PARTS for their consumer items.

It cost DELL COMPUTER about 300 Million $ US using the bogus "bargain" capacitor..

Andynko

6th December 2015, 01:42

agreed Bob, I have also learn't from experience over time & through the many of my PC builds which manufactures of components to trust.
Experience is key I have found to judging reliability and durability.

& honestly, its a mine field out there with what seems like a limitless choice of components to chose from

Star Tsar

6th December 2015, 01:46

The thing with "gaming PC's" is that they are only top of the line for say one or two years then games companys/studios raise the specs of the games to run best on even newer hardware!!
As it is for video editing you may not need as powerful machine/graphic processor.
I wouuld do as Hip Hopnotist says I'd give it a good clean with compressed air I would not use your breath trust me black computer dust does not taste to good and maybe purchase a new graphics card.

Andynko

6th December 2015, 01:51

& always include a solid state drive in your build if you want any chance of achieving the maximum performance out of your computer.

a standard mechanical hard drive will often be the weakest link in most computer systems

Carmody

6th December 2015, 01:55

Bob

6th December 2015, 03:07

I want to point out, on some motherboards, and hard drives, some manufacturers have used a capacitor in the motherboard, and or power supply or hard drive board which was a substandard ripoff, a chinese capacitor which within a year or two of being powered up, the capacitor(s) would fail, and the hard drive and motherboard would be lost..

The capacitor problem was not just for BUILDER MOTHERBOARDS, and Disk drives, but major off-the-shelf manufacturers got caught up, trying to save a buck or two on PARTS for their consumer items.

It cost DELL COMPUTER about 300 Million $ US using the bogus "bargain" capacitor..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

It was industrial espionage from a renegade engineer.

It ended up costing many people a lot of sorrow.. greed strikes once again, industrial espionage.

Did I ever tell you the story of the stalker who has been stalking me since 1990? Industrial espionage is in their heart.. greed and violence is their motive. I can only imagine what the capacitor incident created for people. Oh wait... I can.. imagine..

==========
the moral to the story is CHECK on the review websites, when choosing to build what works. I personally like the gigabyte dual bios mobo's, and add a LOT of extra cooling, and a VERY large game-ing power supply which won't crash with heavy loads..

A bit of over-kill maybe, but such allows reliability.. Proper heat dissipation, and if the MotherBoard will overclock safely without errors, it shows the design of the motherboard will handle noise, interference and won't crash unexpectedly... That is where the overkill specs come in. I don't overclock, no need to..

Carmody

6th December 2015, 03:31

I Used to go in and mod the power supplies, motherboards and graphics cards. All before performance gamer gear was even invented.

Did a bit of pre-release product eval for companies like ATI, etc.

6pounder

6th December 2015, 03:45

As a gamer I would say costume order it and invest in a strong gpu and CPU for video additing. There are specific video cards for that.

Hip Hipnotist

6th December 2015, 05:57

Ah, computer geeks unite!

Finally, a topic on Avalon we ( or me ) actually know something about.

All great suggestions however I'd suggest, since this would be your first build that you start simple. Perhaps look for a kit ( 'bare bones' ) that includes case, power supply, motherboard, hard drive, memory etc. Much less expensive than purchasing components separately. Whether AMD, INTEL, ATI, NVIDIA, ASUS etc. that'll all come later. And believe me, it will. After the first 'build' you'd better start savin' your dough 'cause you're into a whole new world. But start simple and cheap.

Again, a little research will go a long way. I'm sure if you ask specific questions on hardware you'll get educated answers.

And as Nike says...

"Just do it!" :ranger:

Good place to start, look under 'bare bones'...

http://www.tigerdirect.com/

mojo

6th December 2015, 06:17

Hi friends thank you for the wonderful responses. It helped in deciding to go forward with a build. As things progress I hope to gain more insight from you all and maybe this thread will help others? Hoping to find the right parts will be a challenge too, even the choice of operating system would be helpful to know...Cheers!

KiwiElf

6th December 2015, 08:48

Second-hand computers may be an option too. I'm a Mac Boy since 1986, and I can tell you these computers have been outstanding in both their reliability and longevity. (I went through 3 x "PCs" in the lifetime of one G4 Mac (1999 technology), which is still going btw. My 1986 Mac Cube "Macintosh SE" STILL runs beautifully but has become more of a treasured collector's item. I also bought my 4th PC second-hand which was custom made locally for company use and running Windows XP for a mere $300 bucks - still running strong after several years! The other 3 x "brand new" "PC's" literally crapped themselves shortly out of warranty.

My Mac reseller quietly revealed to me that iMacs are good for about 3-years, then toss them. If you want longevity, then shell out the extra bucks for a MacPro tower.

Likewise, not many people realise that all Intel-based Macs will run Windows under Bootcamp - a utility that comes with every Intel Mac - all you have to do is purchase & install your preferred version of Windows software and you effectively have two computers in one box. Despite the initially higher price of the Mac, it's considerably cheaper than buying a Mac and a PC separately.

If you have a reliable computer "builder" to custom-build a computer for you, then ensure you have quality components.

As far as computers go, you do get what you pay for. :)

Morbid

6th December 2015, 11:02

build it. learn few things. for a price of a dell or whatever pre-built junk you can get much better pc in terms of quality of parts.. good luck.

sommervr

6th December 2015, 13:02

Build it yourself or go online and order a special build with the parts/spec you want. I did the latter for my latest PC with good results. You will end up spending a little more for the builders expertise.

Axman

6th December 2015, 14:51

Mojo research some components list them here I am sure we could help pick through them.

The Axman

Andynko

6th December 2015, 15:36

Any idea on your budget Mojo?

mojo

6th December 2015, 17:06

Carmody

6th December 2015, 17:07

To catch the given components in their given lifespan 'devaluation' marketing curve (lifespan of being produced and available), all while having forward reaching compatibility, with add-ons and CPUs, etc.

That is the trick.

Formats and component structuring are always looking forward, changing all the time. Which returns you to the first sentence in this post. 'value' surrounds making those purchases, all while making sure the given build has what you expect to need from it in the given time period.

The gamer and graphics environments drive the development and product release/market/lifespan/price curves, so pay attention to the gamer gear that becomes hot and then not as hot.....as the new stuff is out.

Many times that is where the best financial and quality deals are found. Before buying the given component watch for driver quality (software upgrades and software quality) and overall reliability and problems. The reports on such will be all over various websites.

Bob

6th December 2015, 17:15

Hi there - I have to say that I fell for the MAC logic and went for an iPhone, and iPad, and a MacBook pro 17 inch (the biggie)..

Experience: - the MacBook Pro was assembled by Apple, custom, with a bunch of extra Ram, and a nice hard drive available at the time 500 giga-bytes size.

Operating system - impossible to upgrade, the OS upgrade was incompatible with the hardware, stuck with the original upgrade, would not upgrade to Leopard, or Lion, etc..

Keyboard, within a year, the letters on the keyboard wore off. Was within warranty, and went in had the keyboard replaced. They suggested (geek group in Mac store) upgrading the OS, I replied, tried, to, they checked said, oops.. this model can't be upgraded to the new OS, incompatible hardware, I repeated, ya that IS what I found out.

RF wireless LAN MODULE - heated up shorted out, melting the case. Replaced the RF wireless LAN module. It lasted 3 months then repeated, shorted out.. Decided to ignore and add an external wireless plugin LAN in one of the USB slots.

RECALL on the NVidia video chipset. Class action suit on Apple for using defective/substandard chips.. Video module was not upgradable and would require close to 1000$ replacement of mobo components.. Strange, such was needed to be replaced, 3 days after the warranty expired. As long as certain video configurations were not tried, and the OS not changed, the mobo was able to limp along.

Keyboard keys once again started falling apart, caps on the keys were getting loose, the letters once again wore off. Didn't replace the keyboard, too much cost to replace the custom Apple part.

BATTERY pack - the lithium battery pack exploded, bulged out of the bottom of the case damaging the clip. Looked at the cost of replacement "original apple equipment" say ^&^&%#%^ a bit more colorful. Geek group in the store said, ya, well, batteries do fail after a while.. I replied ya if I wasn't home watching this or if I was traveling and had something flamable next to the case in my travel bag it would have started a fire.. Reply, sorry about that, it is out of warranty.. Ever heard of airlines going down because of failed lithium batteries?

HARD DRIVE - when trying to do the upgrade, when having downloaded the new operating system, on starting the upgrade it replied SORRY YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH MEMORY to do the upgrade.. No way to burn it to DVD, it needed it on the hard drive to do the upgrade. OK, had to BUY a thing called TIME MACHINE with an internal hard drive at an expense of about 400$, a custom APPLE product. Then found out the OS was incompatible with the hardware after going thru the expense of TIME MACHINE for the extra storage.

Replaced the HARD DRIVE on the MacBook Pro with a drive with 250 gigs more memory, version recommended for Apple, but decided ENOUGH with buying PURE APPLE, and went to the Hitachi drive, an OEM version. Worked FINE until I moved the laptop. After all a laptop is supposed to be operated from the lap when one is comfortable in a wify lounge on the road, right? Well, dohh, NOPE the slightest movement locks up the computer with the drive shutting down.. Seems that APPLE uses a specially modified CUSTOM DRIVE which has the motion sensor set to match the APPLE OS.. SO moral to the story, don't expect to have a reliable upgraded computer if you use a non-apple (2X the normal cost of consumer parts) for the hard drive. Wasted another 150$..

OH almost forgot, right FAN on the mobo went out, seized up.. Out of warranty, had to replace the fan on the motherboard. If one is not tech savy taking apart that part of the computer is not something one would want to do.. Also APPLE's logic is just buy a new computer, heck it's ONLY MONEY..

Total cost for the you get what you pay for customized by the manufacturer apple, 4500$ (US). Cost of needed accessories and replacements for equipment out of warranty, and inability to use new software because the OS can't be upgraded, over 800$... total cost 5500$ being APPLE-fan..

The WORTH of the Apple computer is about 1200$ in functionality, the COST of the computer is 5500$ over 3 years. NOT a bargain, not worth being an apple-fan.

** Cost for my custom made PC, 1100$, which continues to last and last and last, is upgradable at any time, and runs circles around the apple.. is playing way past 3 years.

=================================

iPhone - can't upgrade the OS above version 6.1.. Apple uses a policy called planned LIFE of the hardware where it will NEVER be supported. ALSO Apple uses a policy called FORCED PUSH of the OS to your product.. Meaning you get the download PUSHED onto your device even when you turn OFF do not receive such.. You can choose to NOT install the new OS for instance, and what happens is you just wasted bandwidth.. For someone on limited Satellite bandwidth, doing 1/2 gigabyte bandwidth during the day when my phone is connected to my network is unconscionable. I told apple about it, went to tech support and they said, It's not supposed to do that.. I said it is, and showed them my bill, having to request from the satellite company that they please excuse my excessive bandwidth for that month, (them saying well you get one freebie oops...) and if Apple pushes again, which they do multiple upgrades more than once a year at times... Problem with the iPhone then, same thing, UPGRADED APPS need the NEWER OS's so one is stuck, cannot upgrade, and if an app has a major bug in it, one is SOL (**** out of luck)..

=================

iPAD - (*see i tried to be a good apple fan-boy and went for the big three, I even got one of the iPods for music..) - SAME THING FORCED PUSH of the operating system upgrades.. Had to change my satellite internet plan to 120$ a month to deal with being forced to the bandwidth eating policy of Apple, thought about class action suit..

=================

BATTERY LIFE ISSUES... The iPhone battery failed in a year because the operating system had problems with sucking the battery dry. Frequent recharges and discharge cycles killed the battery prematurely.. Had to take the phone to a custom repair group, who had to take apart the phone, use a heat gun on the phone to melt the glue on the battery, so that it could be unsoldered and then replaced. APPLE POLICY is to have the phone battery NOT BE REPLACEABLE by the end user/owner.. Considering 695$ for the phone and having to deal with a mindset of one should toss the phone and upgrade every year is unconscionable..

The iPAD battery is also not end user replaceable..

============================

If one wanted to have something that is affordable and upgradeable easy, PC custom motherboards is where to go. I fell for the lure, the "pixie dust" apple users call it, cause they fall in love with the machine when first trying it.. thing is, under business or industrial use, the apple falls apart.

Second-hand computers may be an option too.

I'm a Mac Boy since 1986, and I can tell you these computers have have been outstanding in both their reliability and longevity. (I went through 3 x "PCs" in the lifetime of one G4 Mac (1999 technology), which is still going btw. My 1986 Mac Cube "Macintosh SE" STILL runs beautifully but has become more of a treasured collector's item. I also bought my 4th PC second-hand which was custom made locally for company use and running Windows XP for a mere $300 bucks - still running strong after several years! The other 3 x "brand new" "PC's" literally crapped themselves shortly out of warranty.

My Mac reseller quietly revealed to me that iMacs are good for about 3-years, then toss them. If you want longevity, then shell out the extra bucks for a MacPro tower.

Likewise, not many people realise that all Intel-based Macs will run Windows under Bootcamp - a utility that comes with every Intel Mac - all you have to do is purchase & install your preferred version of Windows software and you effectively have two computers in one box. Despite the initially higher price of the Mac, it's considerably cheaper than buying a Mac and a PC separately.

If you have a reliable computer "builder" to custom-build a computer for you, then ensure you have quality components.

As far as computers go, you do get what you pay for. :)

==Update==

After the experience with the "portable products", Apple's top of the line custom Laptop/Notebook, iPhone, iPad and their forced PUSH policy for the portable products, I had NO desire what-so-ever to try to do a BUILD of a version of their desktop.

Incompatibility between HARDWARE (OEM hardware) and the APPLE Operating system would be my concern in the minimum.. I have watched the APPLE forums about people's response about NOT getting service, and certainly one would NOT get service on a NON-APPLE-MADE product..

SO if one is a geek and can deal with the foibles of the OS, the lack of support for issues, Apple may be a fun way to go. I do need working utility systems which are portable, and won't fail me in front of a client for instance..

====================

if one wanted NO FAN, NO noise, fully solid state drives for a PC (not an apple), one can do that generally at less cost than an apple product and have all the advantages of upgrade-ability, and generally standard-ized over-the counter OEM parts.

I have one of those systems too, the fully solid state PC. Easy to use for dedicated purposes, portablity, and ultra-reliability and NO FORCE push situations with Apple.. I don't trust apple these days, and I certainly dont trust Google and Android operating systems and hardware which is stuck using that..

Where does that leave us? Linux operating system compatible hardware.. That means a good PC and Linux gets us a lot of reliability, low cost and easy upgrade-ability.

Carmody

6th December 2015, 17:23

around $1300 if possible but it looks like maybe it will be more based on what was researched so far for the two items below...
1. ASUS ATX DDR4 3000 LGA 2011-3 Motherboards X99-DELUXE/U3.1
2. Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3GHz LGA 2011-v3 140W Desktop Processor BX80648I75820K

thats about $800 for those two items

here is a good evaluation site for gauging CPU performance.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Does the given CPU, in the given board, with the given graphics card..does that predict frame rates? what specific tasks is the given combination better or worse at?

Are new or used ones available on ebay for discounts?

Does the given CPU socket have a long lifespan ahead of it, or is it at the end of it's run? How common are the CPUs.... What range of CPUs??

This is important as the CPU's will come down in price and if you chose the right CPU socket and CPU type, you can upgrade to a very fast machine again, in the future, by swapping out the CPU for a discounted CPU. To buy the fastest CPU available for that given socket, in a few years, for possibly about 15-10% of it's original value. A correct choice now can save you many many hundreds in the future. (check the motherboard's CPU compatibility chart)

Computers are a money/use/time thing, so it is money..... spent.... over time. We eventually buy a new one, so it is about how much value you build into the one you've got, via some forward looking purchasing.

I'm a 'just about anything but Apple, never buy Apple' person myself.

ThePythonicCow

6th December 2015, 17:25

CLEAN THE SUCKER!!

If it's a desktop open the case and blow the crap out of it with a can of dust off. heck, just blow it out with your breath rather than doing nothing -- which is just about 95% of the computer owning public. Nothing worse then heat building up ( from dirt/dust ) to destroy your $$ investment. I use to repair them. I know. If it's a laptop blow out the keypad and exhaust fans on the bottom/sides.
One can keep the inside of a desktop PC clean by (1) having more fans blowing in than out and (2) having dust filters on the input fans.

My main case has six case fans - five on the input side (two front, two bottom, one side, all with dust filters) and one on the output side (backside, right after the CPU cooler's fans). That's a rather radical application of "more in than out" principle, better known as positive air flow. It results in more air going out than in through all the other passive ventilation holes in the case, so the only air coming in first goes through the dust filters.

ThePythonicCow

6th December 2015, 17:29

A key advantage for me of building my own computers is that I can do rolling upgrades. If some part of my computer is getting too slow or (for disks) small, or otherwise not doing as well as I'd like, I can upgrade that part.

The other key advantage is that messing with my computer's parts is one of my key hobbies.

For those who lack the interest or talent (or willingness to gain the talent), I recommend pre-built computers. That's most people ... as most people prefer to spend their time elsewhere.

Bob

6th December 2015, 17:51

around $1300 if possible but it looks like maybe it will be more based on what was researched so far for the two items below...
1. ASUS ATX DDR4 3000 LGA 2011-3 Motherboards X99-DELUXE/U3.1
2. Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3GHz LGA 2011-v3 140W Desktop Processor BX80648I75820K

thats about $800 for those two items

I went for overkill on the CPU cooling.. Some folks may weigh in on the watercooling or go for the ultra-large sized whisper-style CPU cooling fans. I went for the oversized, overclocker fan for the CPU (and went for intel verses AMD (had tried both)..

This is the overclockers CPU fan style that I went for (as I said I have no need to overclock, but using stronger parts, more durability, allows for a more stable system in my opinion, don't skimp on using quality RAM.. Having enough RAM is important, so that the operating system doesn't have to continually use the hard drive:

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/media/image/thumbnail/HS010NC_24611_800x800.jpg

Yes, I do build up my own PC's and the operating systems can be whatever desired, even some folks have created versions which installed the APPLE os's on PC's.. (apple users point out that one with the modern apples can run windows if the CPU is of the intel chip)...

If I wanted the Apple OS, in this case I'd try using my "top of the line (see above my post on my apple experience)" or I would go for a repartitioned spot on the hard drive to run an apple emulator configuration.

RAM: - many folks will have an opinion on RAM modules which don't crap out after a few years..

I'd be glad to hear which RAM chipsets have worked the most reliable..

Don't skimp on the power supply.. For normal use I use 750 watts, and in some cases have gone to 1000 watts. The heavy load new video cards do demand a LOT of power..

mojo

6th December 2015, 18:04

For those who lack the interest or talent
Agree and understand pre-built might mean less headache. Hopefully some guidance from this thread will help and I think it might be fun to try...:)

mojo

6th December 2015, 18:27

..was wondering your thoughts about this build?

DsLRuwPX6c8

seehas

6th December 2015, 18:47

for me it will be always "build it" unless its a notebook ;)

i like mac osx but i don't like apple macintosh, so i build my own macs using the same hardware apple uses to build their "mac minis" or "mac pros" for example im writing this using a main board from intel "intel nuc" this hardware is similar to a Mac mini but its much cheaper with more performance.

if you need a high-end computer apple will take a lot of money but if u buy a nice gigabyte main board u will get a high-end power-mac for way less than 700dollars.

on the other hand, to do this you have to be a nerd ... yes aim :big smile:

this is how my own build Mac mini looks, its completely passive cooled and makes no sound at all.
http://www.pc-magazin.de/bilder/77102165/500x300-c2/Test-Der-passiv-gekuehlte-Mini-PC-MIFcom-Intel-NUC-Core-i3-hat-ein-Intel-Mainboard-mit-Mobil-CPU-.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6wzGvYQSWk

Mojo i think this video is more the coin of hardware you are looking for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mWa2z34Kps

DeDukshyn

6th December 2015, 18:58

I'm a full build sort of guy - haven't bought an assembled PC in about 13 years. Still using the case from that purchase, even though I had to cut open the side panel for a new cooler to fit, and the front door is ripped off, no front USBs, etc. lol I really need a new rig. Still running an ancient AMD phenom II 965, got it clocked to 4gigs and it performs marvellously still. probably almost as good as any quad from AMD these days. (just looking, I have a bout 2 cats worth of cat hair and dust inside my case - time for a cleaning too!)

A little off topic ...

AMD's "Project Quantum" is pretty cool - the goal was cram an incredibly powerful gaming rig into the smallest form factor hey could imagine.

Over 17(!) terflops of compute power, dual high end GPUs and an I7 4790k for CPU power all in a liquid cooled tiny form factor you can carry in one hand (portable); designed for 4k gaming at 60fps on max settings, any game:

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMD-Project-Quantum_2.jpghttp://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AMD-Project-Quantum-PC-Demo-635x423.png

http://wccftech.com/amd-intros-project-quantum-powered-dual-fiji-chip/

ThePythonicCow

6th December 2015, 19:00

seehas

6th December 2015, 19:03

..was wondering your thoughts about this build?
That's a beast of a build, with some of the lastest parts. Better than my best system, except I have more disk drives and I prefer lots of big fans and big air CPU cooler over water cooling, and he doesn't concern himself with "positive airflow" (see my previous post above.) If I had money for such a rig, I'd use Samsung 850 Pro, not the Intel 750, for SSD - faster and cheaper and longer warranty. I prefer solid side panels to windows, so I can put another fan blowing right onto my graphics card ... they keep cooler that way.

wow and i would go crazy if my computer makes that coin of noise, back in the days i had it all , computers that made more noise than a ventilator next to it and in summer i felt like i had a sauna in my room, today i have enough with my passive cooled computer its fast enough and does even support simple games no need for graphic power here :) but maybe i should upgrade my memory.

mojo

6th December 2015, 19:11

Paul I priced that beast build out and it was over 3K.. Time to save a little more cash...;)

ThePythonicCow

6th December 2015, 19:19

wow and i would go crazy if my computer makes that coin of noise, back in the days i had it all , computers that made more noise than a ventilator next to it and in summer i felt like i had a sauna in my room, today i have enough with my passive cooled computer its fast enough and does even support simple games no need for graphic power here :) but maybe i should upgrade my memory.
If you do it right, the more fans, the quieter it is. Five large, good quality 140 mm case fans blowing at half speed (7 volt feed, using the difference between the 5 and 12 volt power) are so quiet I can't hear them (though being deaf in one ear and half deaf in the other helps too.)

The noise comes when you work a small fan at high speed, trying to offload lots of heat.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Paul I priced that beast build out and it was over 3K.. Time to save a little more cash...;)

The premier site for configuring a build is https://pcpartpicker.com . I recommend spending a little time on that site. You might start with one of their fully configured build guides (https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/), then adjust to suit. Notice the little slider in the upper left of that build guide page, where you can narrow the range of builds to the price range that suits you.

prc

6th December 2015, 19:33

I completely agree with KiwiElf, I bought an IBOOK from Apple in 2004 and it is still running to these days. But I have retired it and replaced it in 2013 for a MACBOOK Pro. You pay a little bit more for an Apple computer but its longevity is bigger than PCs running Windows.

seehas

6th December 2015, 19:38

You pay a little bit more for an Apple computer but its longevity is bigger than PCs running Windows.

even for notebooks its possible to hackintosh for example the lenovo series and even the asus zenbook is very compatible, but yea i know most apple people buy there because it looks fancy i don't care so much about that, i only care about good hardware and applestore prices are pure rip offs.

Sunny-side-up

6th December 2015, 20:45

Build it around your chosen OS so that drivers and the like run well together!
Always try to see what is the next up and coming spec Mojo!
keep it compatible for as long as poss :)
BUT
Don't get bogged down waiting for the next gear like I did once, or your never build it 0.o

The most important part to consider though Mojo is:

A kick-Butt-Box for it :)
it will always work better with go faster strips on it :)

fractal

7th December 2015, 11:43

nice tread ...

im rockin old 2011-12 pc: i5 3570k 4300 mghz,z77 deluxe, ddr3 16 gb kingstone beast 2133 mghz, samsung evo 120gb sistem,kingstone 240 gb ssd projects, raid 0 x2tb blacks storage, gtx 770 gigabyte (a powerplant) - i build this.

so my "OLD" pc beat my brother new pc, hes i5 4670 stock, ddr3 1333, gtx 770 asus, b85 gamer, samsung evo 120gb sistem.

almost im duble faster in performace, and hes pc is not that bad and whole generation newer.

around $1300 if possible but it looks like maybe it will be more based on what was researched so far for the two items below...
1. ASUS ATX DDR4 3000 LGA 2011-3 Motherboards X99-DELUXE/U3.1
2. Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3GHz LGA 2011-v3 140W Desktop Processor BX80648I75820K

thats about $800 for those two items

lol thats kinda owerkill ... what do you plan to edit with this .. joke ;)

Fractal

KiwiElf

7th December 2015, 14:55

Hi Bob, - not going to repeat your above reply post here but I think we're on completely different pages: I'll be clear - it really isn't fair to compare modified computers with those that are straight out of the box. All of mine were dead stock standard, and the older ones I mentioned were made by Apple in the USA, (not China) - and yes, at the risk of being "un-PC" (no pun intended) I'm going to call a spade a shovel - I'm not convinced that Chinese-made Macs are any where near as good as the Macs of old!. (That goes for most things these days ;))

The MacBook Pro was made in China, I'm running the original Mac OS that came with it & Windows 7 as well under Bootcamp and again, no probs with any of them. Yes, I'll soon need a faster Mac... (then I'll buy a faster Mac, not try and hot this one up... not wise in my experience). Laptops of any kind probably aren't the best choice for serious gaming either, they simply don't get the same kind of cooling you can make or modify into a tower.

Macs should absolutely NOT be modified - unless they have a fault and there's an approved fix - doesn't happen too often, altho your experiences are unfortunately becoming more common (other than the usual hard-drive or Ram upgrades, and leave them with the OS they came out of the box with or just the next OS up). Start tinkering with Macs beyond what they were designed for and you're asking for trouble as they're a completely integrated system (hardware & software) - PC's aren't quite so much. My own experience with upgrading to a newer Mac OS on an older Mac is DON'T. You'll just end up with a slower Mac.

If you want to modify computers - especially for gaming purposes - then I'd stick with PCs (altho I've had gaming mates get severely burned money-wise with some of those too - it's like modifying a car - if you want a faster car, then buy a whole stock faster car, ...or you may just end up with an expensive hand grenade :).

mojo

7th December 2015, 16:35

lol thats kinda owerkill ... what do you plan to edit with this

Hi Fractal,
Maybe it is a lot of bang plus the cost for the build was over what I wanted and fortunately some of the other members mentioned a website that you can build according to your price break. Thinking 2k for a complete system is a little over my price but still reasonable and in the ball park for a decent system.

Bob

7th December 2015, 17:15

My MacBook Pro, the top of the line as built by APPLE itself is what we are talking about. Pretty as all heck right out of the box, until it started to fail while in warranty and continued to fail out of warranty.

Finding out that the APPLE BUILT MacBook Pro 17 inch had incompatible hardware with the newer OS releases by Apple was pretty shocking. Especially after having found out that the provided Hard Drive as supplied by Apple itself (in the top of the line machine) didn't have enough space, when one does a year's worth of work, (video's, editing, everything one would do over a year).. Having to buy a "TimeMachine" only to find out, sorry, the OS is not stable with that hardware.. DON'T upgrade, you can't upgrade, toss the machine, waste 5500$, don't pass go, just go buy the latest machine... great for Apple's bottom line, absolutely SUX for a consumer needing something reliable and trying to not waste money.

Replacing a hard drive with a standard OEM hard drive and finding that there is a situation where APPLE configured something, either motherboard, or OS, to not allow standard consumer/OEM parts is something that I was blindsided with.

Finding keyboards crapping out, finding the CHIPSET that Apple used for the video to be defective which did result in a class action suit is not making one feel all warm and fuzzy..

And when the FAN for the CPU started going because of what appeared to be substandard bearings (started making a whiring, then clunking sound until it stopped completely), it was not DUST laden, not crapped up. I've seen plenty of fans in large desktops without FILTERS get clogged up, usually from sucking up lint and cathair or doghair and other stuff floating around on the floor.. This fan, the right sided one, which is reported by others as to failing notoriously... was a pain in the ass, an expensive one at that, to take the machine apart and replace.

Finding the Wireless LAN card crap within year two (out of warranty) certainly was not great, especially when it melted the case near one's left palm. Besides all the silver-grey plastic wearing off where one puts one's palms, making the thing look like a toy, a substandard one at that..

The problems with operating system upgrade, all for the APPLE BUILT MACHINE, not some franken-clone.. this is an out of the box built by Apple, customized by them for all the needed bells and whistles that they offered to make my life easy. It did not make my life easy, it was a piece of crap, and has been..

The last straw was when the Lithium battery exploded, and had I not caught it, it would have started a large fire and burned down my office.

That's my warm and fuzzy experience with Apple products, the workhorse that I needed and expected was not what it was made out to be.

As to the other Apple products, the iPhone, iPad, the issues are with the batteries being SOLDERED IN that the owners cannot replace the battery by themselves, requiring an expensive trip to Apple to get them replaced.

And the forced PUSH of the operating system upgrades (with the limited life span, my iPhone lasted 1 year before it was no longer upgradeable because Apple wanted people to go out and spend another 695$ for a new phone..

Just not economical, nor what I expected from such a touted product claiming to be better than the other guy..

PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE

This is the most annoying aspect.. The upgraded and BUG FIXED apps (programs in English) that one bought the license to use, say, SORRY you cannot run this upgrade because you don't have the NEWEST operating system.. So you are STUCK with what was supplied with the machine, and again, with the bugs in those Operating Systems, you cannot get such fixed because the FIXES are in the NEW Operating system. TOTAL catch 22. Apple's strategy, want something NEW as far as a FIXED program (which one was stuck using the buggy version in the bought version), Apple says, toss your computer, toss your programs that you bought and go to the store and buy another one - wasting consumer's money, but making APPLE billions..

Even the Geek Group at Apple said, WHY haven't you UPGRADED your OS? I said I tried, and the upgrades are definitely NOT COMPATIBLE. What manufacturer in their right mind would hamstring a consumer to have a product which is not upgradeable, oh, that's right APPLE..

Dennis Leahy

7th December 2015, 17:39

Since you've decided to go ahead and build, and since there are obviously a number of people here that could help to evaluate components and make sure they will work together, I'd recommend that you make a list of components and post it here, and ask one or more of the experienced builders to see if there are any obvious incompatibilities or underkill/overkill components.

As someone mentioned, a "solid state" hard drive (SSD) would be the most noticeable speed boost in the machine. They are expensive, so budget dictates a smaller capacity SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820721107) as a "boot" drive (and to install a few speed-critical applications, such as video editing), and a second large (mechanical) drive (maybe 2 terabytes (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236624)) for all your storage needs (including the videos that you edit.)

Over the years, I have gone back and forth from Intel to AMD, pretty much exclusively using AMD CPUs for the last decade. Intel may have faster CPUs than AMD right now, but at a much higher price (and the speed difference is not visually noticeable to me.) Video editing and "serious" gaming (whatever that is - I'm not a gamer) requires lots of RAM and a fast video card with a fast GPU and lots of video RAM. Put more of your money there than in the CPU/motherboard. Don't get an "APU" (CPU with built-in graphics chip) for video editing or gaming (fine for business apps.) There are lots of good motherboards for $100 and the AMD CPU "FX-9590 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113347)" is under $200. That would allow you to put more of the budgeted money in the video card, where the muscle is needed.

{edit, to add} CPU cooling is important. The last CPU cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065) I bought is ridiculously big, but it does keep the CPU out of the danger zone. The particular CPU that I mentioned is 4.7Gigahertz, and I have not bought one yet - but that would be the CPU I'd use if I was building a new box today. The video card needs adequate cooling as well. Consider using only large fans in the machine (120mm), not the smaller ones that are noisier - and this means picking out a case made for large fans.

mojo

8th December 2015, 19:57

More lessons, I guess all cases are not the same after some research and settled on the Fractal R5 case.
I was also ready to purchase the intel 7 chip but after some research find that AMD is coming out soon with a 16 core chip called zen. The highly anticipated skylake chip from intel was a let down for puter gurus...Do you think motherboards that accept the 8 core AMD chip will be able to accept the 16 core AMD zen chip?

f87terfSQ9U

edit: I guess the video answered my question and will need a new socket...

ThePythonicCow

8th December 2015, 21:07

More lessons, I guess all cases are not the same after some research and settled on the Fractal R5 case.
The Fractal Design R5 -- that's my favorite case, sitting right next to me.

mojo

8th December 2015, 22:47

OK guys since the AMD 16 core will require a new motherboard it makes sense to purchase the best current CPU. In that regard which processor is best buy for today?
hto2JMHqATI

Bob

8th December 2015, 22:56

I agree with Dennis about CPU coolers, and Paul about FAN size, bigger the fan, the slower it can operate at slower speeds, and remember air filtration..

I've personally run into compatibility problems with AMD CPU's, that programs designed on the INTEL cpu instruction set sometimes have issues with crapping out due to of all things packet clashes inside the chip to memory controller. Intel and AMD have had their problems with heat issues, and failure. The CPU pinout means not being able to just plug in an upgrade new CPU.

I'd still ask about purpose of the computer. Gaming, or wordprocessing and internet browsing, or ability to play video's without glitches. Or play audio and edit video and audio without glitches.

So I'd suggest also doing a search on what one wants the computer to be able to do for you.

PC Advisor, UK has this link: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/pc-components/amd-vs-intel-3528212/
AMD is the smaller of the two companies by some margin. For one thing, while Intel builds its own chips in over a dozen fabrication (fab) plants in the USA, Ireland, Israel and China, AMD sold off its last fab in 2009. AMD has focused on making GAMING look great.

True power users – those editing video, rendering 3D animations, or those who simply want to get to the top of the SETI@home leaderboard, can opt for Intel’s Core i7 chips.

sigma6

9th December 2015, 07:10

I love my i5-4670, Asus Q87 board, and Samsung EVO, I used to never recommend "integrated anything"... but that's all changed in the last few years... right now Intel has the best CPU, I wish AMD would catch up because they keep the market prices down, and they aren't holding up to that... they haven't taken the lead for many years now (and might not ever, at the rate they are going...) their CPUs require more energy to get the same job done (simply put, they run too hot...) my i5 never goes past 40 C, unless under heavy load, and I didn't buy a graphics card, again this is the first time in 20 years they finally got it right... (Intel now controls and makes all the chips on this board including the graphics...) I built the whole system for under $500 CDN including the box... and that was 2 years ago ? ... I picked the bottom of the hardware market ; -) ... I got the i5 for $200 during an "after Christmas" sale... (always check the market around that time) AND I have not seen it cheaper since!... this is because AMD is not doing their job (building a competitive chip) In fact this is the first time I have notice prices plateau this long in the desktop market and even go up !!!??? (all signs of a maturing market)... many prices have stabilized, the value added will be in performance here on out and that too is experiencing "diminishing returns". (Moore's Law is basically hitting a ceiling as far as "Wintel" CPUs are concerned)

The rule of thumb today. The market is very mature, you do need some experience to know who is who, but essentially you pretty much get exactly what you pay for... To keep it simple, stick to what is tried and true (major brand names) You can get a sense of where the market is fairly quickly by doing your research on Google, don't believe everything you hear, but do take a consensus. It doesn't ever pay to go "cheap", because margins on hardware are so tight...(unless you really know what your doing, and even then...) it's a matter of knowing exactly what you are looking for (super high performance is over rated imo, given today's CPUs) Performance is so high, and the technology so sophisticated, there is no need really to tweek anymore... (unless you still like that sort of thing... like extreme gamers, etc...

These days I go for simplicity, robustness, low maintenance, ease of use and I always buy below the bleeding edge.... what I call the price/performance point... think of a curve.... you can see how the it goes up steeply as you go to the "bleeding edge"... go for high performance (up the curve a bit...) just as the prices are increasing but pull back from the bleeding edge... (the extreme high end of the curve) thus I went for the i-5 because it was 40% cheaper then i7s, but easily gets 90% plus of the performance (ie. people are only buying the i7 out of ego and have money to burn, avoid these marketing traps, then again, those consumers are the ones that allow me to buy the cheaper i5s :) Look at the market as a distribution (it always is) Thus this is why the i5 was/is the most efficient "price point" (the sale didn't hurt either, but that is just a timing thing any shopper should know)

You don't need solid state for anything other then the OS and apps imo (or gaming I guess...) so a 100-120GB SSD is plenty for that and dedicate it as the C: drive... which also makes it ideal to back up. Run all your personal and storage data on more cost effective SATA drives... 2TBs were the best price/value (at the time, haven't looked recently) and for extended storage I actually like the Western Digital (they look like the market leader for now) I bought a few Green WD HDs (cheaper) since they wind down ("sleep") when not in use... which is ideal... there is a slight delay of a few seconds if you haven't used them for a while, but considering they are only accessed occasionally when I want to go into those "libraries"... it's perfect... they use less energy, will last way longer, etc... (just understand the initial delay if you haven't accessed them for several hours (for me, having to wait more then 3-4 seconds is an interminable "delay"!!! ...LoL) so it's a matter of the right HD for the right purpose...

This thing boots to a fully loaded 1.3GB of fully configured OS with over 100 apps installed in less then 10 seconds, now that's how it should always have been... the rest is configuration, but that is just know how... if there is any tweeking, it's in configuring and installing apps onto the OS for optimal performance, which is mainly shutting off hidden applications that try to start up on boot in the background when you didn't ask them to!... ; o

Also focus on utilities... they are your "eyes and ears and hands" (i.e. dedicated user friendly interfaces) in the OS... my 2¢ from a veteran "hardware hack"... I couldn't resist... and lastly join forums like http://sevenforums.com. That's where you can pick up all the techie talk (and tips/techniques/fixes) you can handle... long live the custom build... I feel like the lady in the cigarette ad... "Baby, you've come a long way" ;p

If you want to do your own building and tweeking the first thing to master is how to back up your OS image... (Acronis True Image) After that ... have at her... trial and error will be your best friend... Learn how to organize, properly label and file and build folder structures on the fly (it's ongoing and never ends)... it's a wonderful life

mojo

12th December 2015, 19:05

Hi,
Can anyone tell me what power supply needed for the 1400 watt I7 5930 Haswell chip? I don't understand why in one build using this chip the power supply is only 600 watts.

edit Pretty much choosing this CPU and now looking at motherboards. Any thoughts on which x99 motherboard. Looking at the ATX size but there are lots of choices.

Bob

12th December 2015, 19:22

Came across this site today: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-cp9020057na - corsair 1500 watt. I use corsair power supplies for my i7 desktops.

The cpu asked about, the 5930K is 140 watts, not 1400 watts :) http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80648i75930k

The video card, non-green (power savings hard drives), the DVD burner (blu-ray) consume lots of power. So a good powersupply is needed. I reliably use the 750 watt Corsairs, but I would easily upgrade to a 1000watt Corsair if I were going to do a new mobo, with a more powerful processor than the i7 that I am using now. I'd never skimp on a powersupply..

mojo

12th December 2015, 19:23

Thanks Bob yes sorry that was 140 watts thank goodness...;)

Bob

12th December 2015, 19:31

As to the mobo, as I mentioned I am a believer in the gigabyte line - the X99 series mobo is the latest X99 motherboard from Gigabyte that will support the 5930K CPU.

http://www.gigabyte.us/MicroSite/372/images/models.html

for instance: http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5126#ov

Haswell chip uses the LGA 2011 arrangement, also called Socket R, is a CPU socket by Intel. Released on 14 November 2011, it replaces Intel's LGA 1366 (Socket B) and LGA 1567 in the performance and high-end desktop and server platforms. The socket has 2011 protruding pins that touch contact points on the underside of the processor.

Possibly that mobo is a tad over-kill, but it says it is able to handle the upgraded extreme version of the processor, the 8 core..

Don't skimp on the speed and quality of the memory chips - CMD16GX4M4A2400C16 it looks like is one of the recommended corsair memory.. DDR4 memory for the speed would be great.

ThePythonicCow

12th December 2015, 20:49

Hi, Can anyone tell me what power supply needed for the 1400 watt I7 5930 Haswell chip?
As Bob noted, that must be 140 watts, not 1400.

For sizing power supplies, I add up the max power "TDP" (see below) ratings of the main power uses in the case, mostly CPU and graphics card(s) and hard drives, plus say 50 watts for the "other stuff", and then multiply by two, and get a brand name supply of that size. This gives me plenty of comfortable headroom, without wasting money, and without unduly oversizing the power supply.

Since I usually run a single middle of the product line, rather efficient, graphics card (I am not a serious gamer), I usually end up with power supplies in the 500 to 600 watt range, and could actually go lower, except that not many good power supplies are marketed much below that level. My current main rig, using a Kill-O-Watt (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/Image_C.jpg) meter, uses 100 to 200 watts at the wall, so a 400 watt power supply (of a reliable brand name that can actually do what it claims) would be more than enough. My actual power supply in that case is 560 watts, and its cooling fan probably never even turns on except for a quick spin when I power the system up.

Power supplies are more likely to run at their best efficiency at (give or take a bunch) half their rated load than they are at 10 or 20 percent of their load, so getting a supply that is too large wastes both initial cost up front, might be harder to fit in some smaller cases, and wastes electricity over the lifetime of the supply. My 560 watt supply is almost too big, from that perspective.

If you're going to overclock more aggressively, including by raising voltages, then raise both the power and cooling capacity accordingly ... that can suck power and make lots of heat.

The "max power" requirements of a CPU or graphics card are often labeled "TDP", for thermal design power, the highest amount of heat that the chip or card is designed to generate, at stock voltages. Note that that is the excess power that might be thrown off as heat, whereas your power supply must provide for both that wasted heat and the actual power used to perform the chip's functions. However the later is quite a bit smaller, so gets lost in the noise (and my 50 watt padding.)

Hip Hipnotist

12th December 2015, 21:36

Obvious ( to me ) everyone here knows computers. Just different opinions/preferences/experiences.

A word of caution, mojo; since this is/will be your first build do keep in mind the cost. Although minimal there's always the possibility of bending, tweaking or frying something that a return policy or warranty just ain't gonna cover. It's a learning process/experience. I've bent, tweaked and fried more parts than I care to divulge. The bent/tweaked I could repair. I've got more than one $$ fried part I keep around as reminders to GO SLOW! And reading glasses go a long way in making sure you plug 'this and that' into where 'this and that' are supposed to go. I'm sure some 'older eyes' here can attest to what I'm saying.

Right, Paul? :highfive:

mojo

12th December 2015, 21:46

Thank you for the word of caution knowing moving ahead I can count on fellow members here is very encouraging. And I upped my cost to $2500 for a a mid range build. Someone asked the use and mostly for editing and rendering video plus a little gaming. Nobody yet mentioned operating system but I think Linux mint is the choice so far. Also that operating system will be a change from windows. Thanks again for the help...:)

Bob

12th December 2015, 21:59

I asked GigaByte support for the technical rundown on memory, powersupply, and vid card loading just to see what they say, not overclocking but the gigabyte is able to do that pretty well if the memory and the cpu fan is adequate.. Just a note I've never successfully had longevity at tweaking video cards.. every time the fan on board them has been in-adequate, and some cards are already tweaked up as high as they can go without meltdown.. I haven't had the 750 watt corsair power supply fail, but plenty of fans and the caps on the cheapo power supplies fail.. Paul's suggestion about keeping dust and grease out of the case makes a LOT of sense.. fan failure is no fun loosing hardware cause of dirt. Win 10 btw is and has been giving me lots of grief on older programs and older mobo's.. Win 7 pro has been working fine.. I have multiple boot configurations, when I want Linux, or Ubuntu it's a piece of cake navigating between. I doubt seriously that Linux is going to be able to use a new mobo's hardware bells and whistles.. so a powerful mobo would be a waste on Linux. (no drivers for the modern features)..

Ubuntu x99 drivers issue: http://askubuntu.com/questions/585251/asus-x99-deluxe-bluetooth-ubuntu-14-04

Linux chipset drivers no released: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/357939-best-linux-compatible-x99-motherboard/

Running a Haswell on Linux - http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_corei7_5960x&num=1

With the X99 burned-up motherboard problem of last week appearing to be behind us with no further issues when using a completely different X99 motherboard
"Experimenting with LINUX on the Haswell x99 mobos.." one takes ones chances.. experimenting....

If the mobo works with Win7 pro, run it.. if one wants to experiment do so at one's own risk..

You could always ask the mobo manufacturer what will and will not work with Linux.. such as missing drivers and missing features from their on-board chipsets not being supported..

Hip Hipnotist

13th December 2015, 00:02

Well, for $2500 clams I could build myself two systems that would take me into the next century. Well, perhaps not the next century but $2500 is a lot for a first system ( IMO ). Don't get me wrong, if you got it flaunt it. Sure, you could purchase a graphics card that alone would cost that much. But, you ain't lookin' to work at Pixar, are you?

The system I have now I can do ( just about ) anything with including flawless HD video editing, super gaming etc. and cost less than a grand. I would stick with Windows ( for a PC ) and avoid Linux. I've been on Windows 7 Ultra and haven't updated ( definitely not auto updates ) for a couple of years. I'd also stay away from Windows 10, free or otherwise -- at least for a while. If you're going to be on line with your system ( who isn't? ) just make sure you've got good protection. And I don't mean Trojans. Actually I do mean Trojans, but not that kind. If you catch me drift. ;)

mojo

13th December 2015, 21:30

I'm such a novice but this video helped me and maybe other people can respond since I'm leaning towards this OS., ...thanks

y_lhqg_p21k

Dennis Leahy

13th December 2015, 23:43

I have built entire computers that cost about what the Intel "i7 5930 Haswell" costs. Might be a good idea to find a real-world comparison chart of chips - something that shows an apples-to-apples comparison of the time it takes to render a 3D scene.

I have never spent anywhere near that amount of money on a CPU chip, and I have built dedicated DAW (digital audio workstation) and all-purpose machines that were used for 3D scene rendering, CAD workstation, etc. I fear you have gone far into "overkill" zone by selecting a nearly $500 CPU chip.

My $0.02 (adjusted for inflation hehehehhe)

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 00:33

I doubt seriously that Linux is going to be able to use a new mobo's hardware bells and whistles.. so a powerful mobo would be a waste on Linux. (no drivers for the modern features)..Except for playing the latest AAA demanding games at max settings on big monitors, for which one invariably wants a Windows system and drivers, Linux usually only lags Windows drivers by a quarter or two, sometimes less. If you have some brand spanking new and unusual hardware device or connection that you must have working, then, yes, check whether Linux drivers will be available in the time frame you need.

I no longer game, and I don't recall the last time I ever had a problem getting Linux drivers, or even paid that issue any thought. It just works.

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 01:02

I have built entire computers that cost about what the Intel "i7 5930 Haswell" costs. Might be a good idea to find a real-world comparison chart of chips - something that shows an apples-to-apples comparison of the time it takes to render a 3D

Well, for $2500 clams I could build myself two systems that would take me into the next century.

If I were building a rig for video editing, I'd likely use either an Intel® Core™ i7-5930K or i7-5960X Processor , either 16 or 32 GBytes of RAM, and a big arse air cooler, such as from Noctua or Be Silent, so that I could trivially overclock for an other 10 or 20 per-cent per-core performance. Pretty much every decent desktop Intel CPU of the last few years will run at 4.2 or 4.3 GHz, with good air cooling, and little effort, -if- it is a K or X series chip that allows overclocking.

And that's the kind of money I'd expect to spend for such a system, if my finances allowed (and for computer gear, they usually do allow.)

See the big brother of the 5930, the i7-5960X, in the x264 video encoding chart in this Phoronix.com benchmark (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_corei7_5960x&num=4). The i7-5960X chip kicks butt (https://lensvid.com/gear/is-the-new-8-core-intel-processor-really-the-king-of-video-editing/) over previous generation Haswell chips, for exactly this sort of work load. See also this bit-tech video editing benchmark (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/09/03/intel-core-i7-5930k-and-core-i7-5820k-revie/4).

The 5930 only has six of the on-chip eight cores enabled, compared to the 5960, so can be expected to only be 75% as fast on video editing, which eats cores and CPU cycles for breakfast. But it's 50% of the price. That's a "personal preference" tradeoff there ... what's fatter ... your wallet or your patience.

The previous generation Intel Core i7-4790K is almost as good as a 5930 for video editing, for $200 less. That's another "personal preference" tradeoff, between $200 and the potential, but nebulous, advantages of being on a more recent version of the chip, for improved "future proofing."

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 01:13

I no longer game, and I don't recall the last time I ever had a problem getting Linux drivers, or even paid that issue any thought. It just works.
Regarding which Linux distribution (distro) I'd recommend:

I had been an Ubuntu fan for quite a few years (running Kubuntu, the KDE variant). But I was finding myself fighting it more often, given the unusual ways I use and configure a system.

So now I'd more likely recommend Mint for serious, but first time, Linux users, especially those wanting a variety of media related programs to work, some not open source. I've not used Mint myself, just going on reputation here.

Personally I've switched to Debian, the classic choice for serious Linux hackers for a long, long time now, and the distribution on which Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Mint are based, as are many other well known distributions (https://www.debian.org/misc/children-distros).

===

Besides the graphics card driver issue I mentioned above, I now recall that the other area I've had the most problems with Linux was with the sound handling. It's a complicated area, with several major, sometimes cooperating, sometimes competing, solutions, some of which were buggy in early versions. I'd trust Mint to deliver a robustly working solution here as well or better than most.

Bob

14th December 2015, 01:23

[..]
Besides the graphics card driver issue I mentioned above, I now recall that the other area I've had the most problems with Linux was with the sound handling. It's a complicated area, with several major, sometimes cooperating, sometimes competing, solutions, some of which were buggy in early versions. I'd trust Mint to deliver a robustly working solution here as well or better than most.

And that's why I can't use the Linux or Ubuntu systems, because of the sound and graphics drivers..

I like seeing the specs on the 5930 and 5960. And I like powerful sound boards, or chipsets, doing video edits and advanced audio processing 3D stuff, needs the memory and the horsepower (read cores).. The associated hardware on the mobo has to put out the rest of the current needed for overclocking, and there has to be NO-CROSSTALK.. So one's pushing MEMORY and the associated controller parts, all running hotter..

Meaning it's not just the CPU that gets hit hard when over-clocking, powersupply, video buss, sound bus, memory controller, and so forth.. So I would say again, when one goes for the overclocking, all the parts need to be able to handle that.. And having a mobo-bios which is forgiving able to restore what was set that proved to push a tad too hard.. That's why I used mobo's with the dual bios restore features.. (i've used Acronis and like it, but many of the newer mobo's have a restore partition for the operating system).. There are websites that point out which boards survive, and give the most stability.. And which parts will allow for the speedup..

I have a feeling tho, that with the "drivers" for the parts, some may very well be speed dependent. Like glitches appearing when one cranks up the speed, which weren't there before pushing things.. I can't afford to have video or audio glitches in doing remastering for instance..

And as the parts age, as the temperature of the case inside changes, the mobo temp changes, all those factors contribute to a build/overclock which may work one day and fail another (and continue to fail..) I've had to roll back memory clock and timings as memory aged... Awful situation when the board will no longer boot cause of aging parts..

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 01:29

I've had to roll back memory clock and timings as memory aged... Awful situation when the board will no longer boot cause of aging parts..I'm more forgiving of glitches (having some serious Linux system expertise to figure them out), I don't do any demanding real time sensitive media work, I worship at the church of Hate-Bill-Gates-and-Microsoft, and I don't push my clock speeds past what is easy to do and quite stable ... so my trade offs will be different than yours.

(P.S. -- Confession though - I am part way through setting up a Windows 7 rig to run Sonar X3 :).)

Bob

14th December 2015, 01:36

I've completely learned to hate windows 8 and won't come near windows 10 again - windows 7 ultimate for the sound/video system has worked adequately as well as windows 7 pro, but it does tend to be hardware/driver dependent how it all works without glitches.. Awful when one is watching a blu-ray and the software hiccups due to wonder-os going off doing housekeeping..

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 02:03

Bob

14th December 2015, 02:05

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 02:22

Bob

14th December 2015, 04:34

My above comments about using Windows for high end games and Sonar X3 highlight an important decision point.

The choice of which OS to run, as well as what hardware to use, depends on the application you're running.

If you have a particular video editing software system you prefer ... make your other choices based on what it prefers.

Dual or triple boot choices - windows/linux/ ?? (my "??" are the latest Ubuntu) best of all worlds

Nah - I long ago tired of dual booting, and I like having backup systems for basic use and for researching problems, if my main system is down. Right now I have Debian Linux, Mac OS X and Windows 7 systems, available at my fingertips, along with fully redundant power and Internet connectivity.

:) :cow: :)

Possibly for one just starting up doing a "build", one operating system would be it, if they didn't have multiple desktops, or lappies to use. So for MoJo.. one can always start with the windows 7 pro or ultimate, if the mobo chosen is one of the fancy ones to see what it's like then do a dual boot with linux and see what is or isn't supported.. That way one can revert back.. I've seen starting with Linux, and trying to go to windows dual boot has been trouble.. at least for me.. Were you able to run the apple OS on the intel PC chipset or is that a discrete apple for you. I got the discrete apple made apple notebook (hoping I would have an almost desktop replacement)..

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 05:04

is that a discrete apple for youIt's a discrete Apple, a Mac Mini.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I've seen starting with Linux, and trying to go to windows dual boot has been trouble.. at least for me.
Yes - a long standing difficulty. If you want to setup a dual boot, Linux and Windows setup, I recommend laying down the Windows first.

mojo

14th December 2015, 06:41

I tried to find out if the Haswell 5820 cpu is 32 bit or 64 bit but can't seem to find out.

edit: With the comments above checked on windows 7 pro and it comes in either 32 bit or 64 bit

The video below helped me understand so the thinking is 2 core or more would be 64 bit...
KgiMzKb8dD0

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 07:05

I tried to find out if the Haswell 5820 cpu is 32 bit or 64 bit but can't seem to find out.

More or less all recent (last decade) desktop CPU's are both 32 bit and 64 bit capable, regardless of core count.

ThePythonicCow

14th December 2015, 12:12

And that's why I can't use the Linux or Ubuntu systems, because of the sound and graphics drivers..
Ubuntu is a distribution of Linux (the kernel) and other software ... one of many such Linux distributions.

The sound problems in Linux aren't usually in the drivers, but in configuring the system libraries and utilities that set in "user space" on top of the kernel. By the word "drivers", I mean kernel loaded software with specific knowledge need to operate a particular piece of hardware. Sound drivers are usually fine.

mojo

26th December 2015, 20:43

fractal

26th December 2015, 23:27

ThePythonicCow

28th December 2015, 05:34

Looking to add:
...
1440 monitor with G sync

G sync is dead sry

https://www.techpowerup.com/200741/g-sync-is-dead-vesa-adds-adaptive-sync-to-displayport-standard.html

That's a year and a half old article, that is not reflected in what's currently available in the marketplace.

I follow several computer tech channels regularly. If you're in the market now for a good gaming monitor, the choice is between AMD FreeSync and Nvidia G-Sync,

Hip Hipnotist

28th December 2015, 08:09

Just wanted to touch base with the computer enthusiasts on the forum.
Partway done with components gathered.
Asus x99 deluxe motherboard
GTX 980 GPU
Intel Haswell 5820
windows 7 Pro OS
Fractal R5 gaming case

Its been a good learning curve along the way. Once start putting the components together will share some photos.

Looking to add:
enclosed water cooling for cpu
SSD card & m.2
Powers supply~ RM1000 Corsair modular
Optical and 2TB WD black hard drive
32 Gb DDR4
1440 monitor with G sync
Keyboard & mouse
additional fans

It costs a little more then planned so didn't really save in building but the advantage I guess is in picking out the components. Thanks for helping in the first build...:)

Well, since you're apparently 'shooting for the moon' ( and beyond ) on your very first build you may just as well toss in a 3D monitor. I have three monitors for different purposes including an HP 23" passive 3D monitor I picked up new for 99 bucks. I use to fly aircraft back when and now just fly on the 'puter'. In 3D with head tracking hardware/software. It really is 'as real as it gets' without the need for Dramamine -- most of the time.

I also dabble in 3D photography and watch certain films in 3D. It really is 'another world'.

So what's another few hundred sheckles when it's raining green backs?

Try it. You'll never look back. You may look 'cross eyed' for a while but you'll never look back. :Party:

mojo

28th December 2015, 18:30

lol Hip Hipnotist, the money tree is dormant right now but thanks and will at least check 3D out it, sounds amazing, it seems everyone is mentioning 4k monitors of recent ...;)

Hip Hipnotist

28th December 2015, 19:56

I have a 39" 4k monitor. There ( still ) isn't much content for 4k. However I can display 4 separate screens of 1080 content at full resolution.

Now if I can just get that in 3D with head tracking software... :inlove:

mojo

28th December 2015, 22:06

ThePythonicCow

29th December 2015, 00:38

I wonder if anyone can figure this out? In the user guide for the ASUS x99 Deluxe motherboard on page 2-11 it discusses installing an HYPER M.2 x 4 card. I'm not sure if all M.2's are HYPER cards or if there are different M.2s that are not HYPER? It goes on to say this:
"For a higher performance, do not install the HYPER M.2 x 4 is when using a 28-LANE CPU."

Im not sure what that means. The CPU chip is the Intel 5820 which I believe is 28 LANE. The sentence above did not make sense to me.

The ASUS HYPER M.2 X4 adaptor card is this guy:

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image/akg/Motherboard/Maximus_VII_Formula/hyper2_sm.jpg
It lets you plug another M.2 memory card into your system, in addition to the M.2 slot that's right on the motherboard.

If you are only using 2 PCIe slots, one for a graphics card and one for this adaptor, then you should have plenty of PCIe lanes - 16 for graphics and 4 for this adaptor. However it might matter which slots you plug things into whether you get all the lanes used. Sometimes plugging something into one slot will reduce another slot from 16 lanes to 8 lanes ... not that you'd likely notice ... it's difficult to distinguish between running your graphics card at 8 lanes or at its 16 maximum lanes.

A close reading of the manual will be needed, and if that broken English translation you quote is typical, a bit of Chinese mind reading might help too.

However if you plug both in, and both graphics and the adaptor seem to work, then even if you're not at perfect performance max, you're likely close enough that you'll never notice the difference.

If you only have one M.2 memory card, then you don't even need the adaptor card, unless you like the looks of using it, instead of the onboard M.2 slot.

mojo

29th December 2015, 01:28

ThePythonicCow

29th December 2015, 01:43

Thanks Paul,
Even after contacting Asus support they didn't answer what I was asking and also seemed confused telling me to contact the CPU support team...very strange...

I decided to sell the 5820 after contacting their support and confused by their statements. I sold the 5820 right away on ebay. Now will save and get a 40 lane 5930 chip.
With only one 16 lane graphics, and with at most only one other 4 lane PCIe card, you only need 20 lanes, so the 5820's 28 lanes is (was) more than enough.

mojo

29th December 2015, 01:48

I think so too... But because of Asus they did not differentiate the hyper M.2 even after I asked for clarification so I panicked. Had the add up for 20 minutes on ebay and it was sold.

ThePythonicCow

29th December 2015, 02:04

Another option - wait 2 or 3 weeks and see if the post Christmas price of a 5820 comes down a bit more :)

Do check out your Asus X99-Deluxe manual (perhaps section "1.2.5 Expansion slots"), for better information on how PCIe lanes are allocated.

mojo

12th February 2016, 23:32

Finally after months of saving the parts to do the project are on the way. I won't mention how much over budget it came, but now comes the putting it all together. The neat thing was learning about components and it will be fun to see the first boot up. Thanks for the input from other members and maybe someone else on Avalon will try a build. Cheers...