Don't pay tax and don't register to vote - first steps to real change?

[Lochinvar]

Options above

[Sérénité]

Hiya I couldn't really take part in the poll as it didn't list my options.

I've tried everything I can over the years to go under the radar, to no avail...

I only pay taxes cos I've no option and I've never ever voted once. As the saying goes, if voting made any difference they wouldn't let you do it...

I'm not sure how it works in Scotland or elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK if you have a fixed abode you have to pay council tax which then automatically registers your name onto the electoral roll, being on the electoral roll then automatically registers you able to vote.

If you don't fill in the electoral role forms you get a big old fine and you also cant get any credit (which is a good thing in my eyes, unless it comes to needing to move house as you then cant get a rental verified or a mortgage)

The only way to not pay taxes is to work cash in hand (very hard to find these days due to an influx of immigration and a crippled economy)

Ideally we would all be able to live off grid and not comply with any sanctions imposed upon us, but other than doing so we are given no alternative. Even to connect to the utility power network you have to be registered.

Its little wonder the powers that be are pushing for a cashless society. Cash is our only ally in keeping remotely under the radar any more.
They have us by the long and curlies!

Great poll...be interesting to hear does anyone have any tips to help us avoid the dreaded tax and voting prison life we find ourselves slaved too?

[Lochinvar]

Thank you for your response. I agree with you. The system is designed to make change difficult. I'd say that the most effective change comes with the most difficult tasks (even when that means doing nothing (like not registering to vote and not paying tax)). I'm not really interested in whether or not people vote because I don't believe those running the country care whether you vote communist of fascist. They do care whether or not you've agreed to let them run your affairs (by entering into this agreement through registering).

I noticed once while in Thames House a database of the addresses in the UK. I checked on this the places I knew and found that there were many more folk listed there than actually living there. I suspect these ghosts can vote and this is a countermeasure to mass non registration (ie full control).

I believe non registration and non payment of tax to be the key to change (because it requires so much sacrifice).

Best wishes

[naste.de.lumina]

I have no choice in your poll.

Although auto titling a democratic country (define democracy), in Brazil voting is compulsory.
I do not vote as a form of civil disobedience, and as a penalty I have to pay a fine.
I did not vote for understanding that voting means consent.
Do not pay the fine results in the loss of a number of privileges such as getting passports, compete in government tenders, etc.

[Lochinvar]

Are you looking for change? How do you think it will come about?

[TargeT]

I pay taxes, I don't vote but I am registered.

I think being registered and NOT voting is useful.... the voter turn out stats are something I pay attention to.

I pay as little taxes as possible, I've owned a company for years (various consulting things) solely to use as a tax write off (now I have a real business and will do the same).

I think it's MORE important to participate in the black/grey market... making transactions with private individuals & dealing "direct"; but not voting and not paying taxes are ok as well I just don't think that will achieve the outcome you hope for.

Now, if your advocating people do *something* I completely agree... the Oregon situation is something I'd go participate in if I were able.

[naste.de.lumina]

Are you looking for change? How do you think it will come about?

I can speculate but I do not know how it will happen globally.

I can only answer for myself and in this case I think a change necessarily depends on an expansion of consciousness.

[Lochinvar]

It concerns me that people aren't talking much (let alone doing much) about the fact that taxpayers money buys the bombs that kill the kids in the Middle East and the Maghreb.

[Zionbrion]

...............

[risveglio]

How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?

[Zionbrion]

How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?
If you have a traditional job, they will start garnishing your wages...if you are a millionaire and avoid taxes they probably throw you in prison for tax evasion. If you are a multi-billion dollar corporation they let it slide.

[TargeT]

How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?

1) luck

2) live somewhere with no taxes

These guys seem to be doing a good job at avoiding taxes:
http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Image3.jpg


It concerns me that people aren't talking much (let alone doing much) about the fact that taxpayers money buys the bombs that kill the kids in the Middle East and the Maghreb.

it's not real to them.

[Heartsong]

I vote and I pay taxes. If I don't vote then the person who does vote has the louder voice and perhaps that voice is not speaking on my behalf. I pay taxes because it educates children, pays for the indigent (grandma), provides law enforcement and courts. Civilization requires money and participation.

[Lochinvar]

I vote and I pay taxes. If I don't vote then the person who does vote has the louder voice and perhaps that voice is not speaking on my behalf. I pay taxes because it educates children, pays for the indigent (grandma), provides law enforcement and courts. Civilization requires money and participation.

I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.

[Lochinvar]

Change isn't easy because the system was designed to make opting out almost impossible.

Stumbled across this after this post. Very much on topic and interesting. Useful ideas and experiences very relevant and great youtube channel. Strong language used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbC1ZxMCLM

[Deega]

I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.

''Lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent'', was it a prerogative within your assigned tasks to do such? If so, was it something that was done from most of the bureaucrates that you know of? I find this intriguing!, may you share more of it?

In my country, we have three level of government, municipal, provincial, federal, I would think that similar things are happening.

[Lochinvar]

I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.

''Lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent'', was it a prerogative within your assigned tasks to do such? If so, was it something that was done from most of the bureaucrates that you know of? I find this intriguing!, may you share more of it?

In my country, we have three level of government, municipal, provincial, federal, I would think that similar things are happening.

What was expected of me and all 750 people working with state auditor was to lie to MPs in the Public Accounts Committee about the results of audits carried out over all government departments, UN, EU, BIS, World Bank, NATO....and pretty much any international organisation you can think of. 5 eyes community mostly took turns in audits of the large international organisations and if you had brown skin you were less likely to win the contract to do these international audits (there are league tables apparently). The lies were never written instructions....full deniability was maintained. Effectively the accounts that government produce are highly suspect but then again there has been a qualified audit opinion on some accounts for many years in UK including the largest account (DWP c£180 billion). Money laundering abounds and weapons "mysteriously" disappear. Which is why the article below reminds me so much of what I used to do

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/06/04/Fog-War-US-Has-Armed-ISIS

[Deega]

I used to work in the UK parliament where my job was to undermine democracy by lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent making voting meaningless. Maybe it's different in your country.

''Lying to MP's about how taxpayers money is spent'', was it a prerogative within your assigned tasks to do such? If so, was it something that was done from most of the bureaucrates that you know of? I find this intriguing!, may you share more of it?

In my country, we have three level of government, municipal, provincial, federal, I would think that similar things are happening.

What was expected of me and all 750 people working with state auditor was to lie to MPs in the Public Accounts Committee about the results of audits carried out over all government departments, UN, EU, BIS, World Bank, NATO....and pretty much any international organisation you can think of. 5 eyes community mostly took turns in audits of the large international organisations and if you had brown skin you were less likely to win the contract to do these international audits (there are league tables apparently). The lies were never written instructions....full deniability was maintained. Effectively the accounts that government produce are highly suspect but then again there has been a qualified audit opinion on some accounts for many years in UK including the largest account (DWP c£180 billion). Money laundering abounds and weapons "mysteriously" disappear. Which is why the article below reminds me so much of what I used to do

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/06/04/Fog-War-US-Has-Armed-ISIS

Wow!, thanks to share - look like an institutionalized lie going on, may you tell, why was it that way?, to show a more positive or negative signs of real things going on?, what was the real purpose of doing that? It was an informal process going on to suit the MP, superiors, or?

[Meggings]

Change isn't easy because the system was designed to make opting out almost impossible.
Stumbled across this after this post. Very much on topic and interesting. Useful ideas and experiences very relevant and great youtube channel. Strong language used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGbC1ZxMCLM

The above video is an interview with Ken O'Keefe that the interviewer just put up on YouTube January 5, 2016 under the title:
Ken O'Keefe: Become a World Citizen and Starve the State!

For busy people, I direct you to 4:15-8:45 minute mark, and then 11:00-13:15 minutes, in which Ken says "...as a marine I had volunteered to kill or be killed....," believing that the USA was the greatest country in the world, and "...that we were a beacon of freedom and democracy..."

At 17-19:30 minutes Ken speaks of Palestine and Gaza, during which he points out that if you are really serious about effecting peace and justice in this world, not only could you get beaten up but could be put in prison, tortured and killed.

Ken O'Keefe has spent years thinking about and deeply reflecting on freedom and the conditions in this world. His conclusions and words are powerful and even inspiring. Note that in the above interview Ken refers to a film he produced called "The United States of Hypocrisy". It is powerful as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDXFXvWTVm8

[Lochinvar]

Well the man in the street isn't trusted with a meaningful vote by those running the country. Those in charge expect me to follow their orders and undermine parliament so that incumbent, long serving civil servants (who never change when governments change) carry out the orders (ignoring parliament) outside of democracy. Often I was asked (behind 3 barbed wire fences and 2 metal doors) if I thought the man in the street should have a meaningful vote. The answer they were looking for was "no" but fortunately I always said "yes". I'd imagine these tests get nastier and nastier as you pass through each level. Of course it looks like voting changes things but that's a deception that satisfies peoples need for change whilst maintaining the status quo. It's highly organised, institutional and mostly isn't written down (so can't be hacked by computer). It's all about control. And it looked to me like the MPs on the committee were in on it too (looked like an old boys network).

It's from this form of extreme control and my exposure to at least some of the strategy of those running the country that I get my perception of how things are run in the world. for example if someone is all over the news....it's because they were put there deliberately.

[risveglio]

How do you avoid being put into the rape cage if you don't pay taxes?
If you have a traditional job, they will start garnishing your wages...if you are a millionaire and avoid taxes they probably throw you in prison for tax evasion. If you are a multi-billion dollar corporation they let it slide.

How am I suppose to feed my family and pay my bills if my wages are garnished? Irwin Schiff didn't pay his income taxes and he ended up dying in jail.


As for the poll, what if you think voting is a waste of time but you do it anyway and you think all taxation is theft but you pay them because you don't want to be locked in a cage?

[Deega]

Well the man in the street isn't trusted with a meaningful vote by those running the country. Those in charge expect me to follow their orders and undermine parliament so that incumbent, long serving civil servants (who never change when governments change) carry out the orders (ignoring parliament) outside of democracy. Often I was asked (behind 3 barbed wire fences and 2 metal doors) if I thought the man in the street should have a meaningful vote. The answer they were looking for was "no" but fortunately I always said "yes". I'd imagine these tests get nastier and nastier as you pass through each level. Of course it looks like voting changes things but that's a deception that satisfies peoples need for change whilst maintaining the status quo. It's highly organised, institutional and mostly isn't written down (so can't be hacked by computer). It's all about control. And it looked to me like the MPs on the committee were in on it too (looked like an old boys network).

It's from this form of extreme control and my exposure to at least some of the strategy of those running the country that I get my perception of how things are run in the world. for example if someone is all over the news....it's because they were put there deliberately.


People of the street not trusted by the politicians, wow! With that attitude where are the possibilities of making changes for the betterment of the people? I don't think it's possible!, I think that it's an aberration, it's an abnegation of the the fundamental principle that the Parlement is the place where laws are enacted for the well being of people! Adding to that, if the executive branch has the leisure of deciding what to say to politicians, then, everybody is in a fantasy world!

With your direct experience in the Civil Services, do you see any possibilities that things might be done differently?, or, is it to daunting to change that, or, would it change anything if things were done differently?

Thanks for sharing!

[Meggings]

Here is Ken O'Keefe's idea that, if enough of us get behind and support, has the possibility of freeing us from paying for mass slaughter and evil.
Max Igan and others are on this short clip, which I took from Ken's website here: http://worldcitizen.solutions/.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3zoY9gvzOI

Wish I had a ton of money to support him in this.

[Mozart]

I vote and I pay taxes. If I don't vote then the person who does vote has the louder voice and perhaps that voice is not speaking on my behalf.

Heartsong~

My info is US-based.

I'm sorry to burst your illusion (I have no judgement against you, as it's a very, very common illusion), but your vote makes very, very little difference whatsoever.

None, zip, nada.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

Let me be clear: Your (all of you) vote makes NO difference whatsoever!

Voting is an illusion and a waste of your time. Voting is giving consent to your continued slavery to the PTBs via a citizenship of a US CORPORATION.



I pay taxes because it educates children, pays for the indigent (grandma), provides law enforcement and courts. Civilization requires money and participation.

I'm sorry, but this is another very common illusion.

None, zip, nada of your taxes that you pay to the IRS goes to fund the CORPORATE, de facto federal "government."

All of it goes to the pockets of the Money Masters, the Cabal, the ILLOONYNAUGHTIES, who then keep some of it, send some of it to the World Bank, to the IMF, etc.

But funding the de facto federal "government?" Zip, nada, zero.

So, how does the de facto federal "government" fund itself? I'm glad that you asked.

It funds itself via its own stock market investments -- through the CAFR mechanism -- funding 2/3 of it's annual funding; the rest of it comes from numerous taxes, excise fees and from the Federal Reserve itself via various mechanisms.

But the IRS?

Zero, zip, nada.

I dare anyone to prove me wrong on these two points!

I wish that I was wrong, but I know that I'm not.

Your taxes that you pay to the IRS

[TargeT]

It funds itself via its own stock market investments -- through the CAFR mechanism -- funding 2/3 of it's annual funding; the rest of it comes from numerous taxes, excise fees and from the Federal Reserve itself via various mechanisms.

But the IRS?

Zero, zip, nada.

I dare anyone to prove me wrong on these two points!

I wish that I was wrong, but I know that I'm not.

Your taxes that you pay to the IRS

I used to be really into the CAFR that the Alaskan government participated in... back when I thought politics were actually viable for change. It's a fascinating topic that everyone should familiarize themselves with

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Just remember this:

before, when you never researched stuff for your self and were just told things (most your youth probably, it was like that for me anyway); all that stuff you learned was either an out right lie, or a heavily twisted truth.


Of course it looks like voting changes things but that's a deception that satisfies peoples need for change whilst maintaining the status quo. ...

if someone is all over the news....it's because they were put there deliberately.

Couldn't agree more.. sounds like you have an interesting story to spin there my friend; that's certainly the most direct succinct short corruption story I've ever heard.

[TigaHawk]

Here in Australia they trick us twice when we are young. In the final grade of Primary school they give you enrollment forms and have you enroll to vote in class. It's a class activity. Everyone did it because well... you do what you are told in school or you get in trouble no? And we did no think any more of it.

Multiple times in high school they also do the same thing.

In Australia it is impossible to not pay taxes. It's taken out of your pay before you get it. You cannot get paid unless you have a tax file number. You also pay tax when you buy things - it's part of the price.

It is however possible to get out of voting - ONLY IF YOU HAVE NEVER ENROLLED - which they are fairly good at keeping to a minimal due to catching us all in school. But yeah - never enrolling is the way to go over here. Tough luck with the Tax - and we have lots of that too >.<

It is also great Revenue for the government as they fine people for not voting. $150. And they will have trouble locating your address - and then fine you multiple late payment fee's because it's your fault they cant find your mailing address. And oh - they recently changed law's so if you do not pay government fines - they terminate your driving license.

Tips to Australian Parents - Educate your children! DO NOT ENROLL TO VOTE! IT IS A TRAP! I now must waste time each year going to some place to draw inappropriate things on a voting form - as i still refuse to vote - but go there and draw rude things on the form to avoid a fine. (knowing how our politics are going over here tho - they will see the penis and just give the vote to a particular party as it's easily mistakable due to how they act! lol )

[6pounder]

In Israel you can't escape the taxation... Same as in Australia.
Voting is another thing and its really funny actually (not so funny actually) the right wing and the left wing are the major candidates for the elections. Every one strey from voting to the religious "wing" (extreme right wing). Every wing put up a candidate that can be elected to be the prime minister. After the elections are over they put up a coalition that basically combines the left and right wings (that almost impossible to not see) and you end up with a government just as the previous one. And how they keep on the illusion? Simply rub your face with the Arab threat that both the right wing and left wing promise to solve. It's never about the economoc, health or educational problems right? They promise those things but never give a damn about it once they got elected and just hold a seat in the government for the mortgage.

[Lochinvar]

Government is the biggest killer in mankinds history. Sure some will say it's religion (war is often waged by government under a religious banner) and some will say it's disease (but governments have used disease to kill).

Energy flows where the attention goes. Maybe consider turning your back on government to make it fade away.

"It's impossible to not pay tax" is like saying "it's impossible to stop funding a government that uses the money to buy bombs to kill kids.".

Government has killed hundreds of millions of people.

[TargeT]

In Israel you can't escape the taxation... Same as in Australia.

Can't or it would be really hard?

If you scraped together some cash and went to Brazil what then? Maybe if that's too drastic you can do smaller steps, buy things directly from people as much as possible, exchange "cash" so it's un trackable... participate in & "prefer" the "grey" market as it does not support the state or it's devices (at least directly).

We can do literally anything we put our minds to, eventually; you're not powerless but we humans have an innate weakness: we will put up with minor annoyances that slowly build to a point far beyond our threshold were it to happen all at once... the totalitarian tip toe, boiling the frog...both of those are great conceptual examples.

its hard to jump out of the pot once you're committed to it & have built an identity around it.... but it can be done.

[Lochinvar]

Totalitarian Tiptoe song you've probably never heard.

https://www.musical1.com/kit-clark/uploaded_audio/888/the-totalitarian-tiptoe

Hope you like it.

[drneglector]

Lots of interesting views here! Thanks! I will share mine as well...

Government has killed more people than religion. Much, much more.

Government is NOT here to protect us. Government is here to protect the material interests to the privileged elite/minority at the expense of the masses/majority.

When I was growing up my mother and father always told me that: "people that don't vote have no right to complain about societal issues". That never sat well with me so despite that I never did vote and for that I am glad. Now I see that intuitionally it was right because voting, at any or no party, is sort of the same as ritualistically giving your sovereignty away and at the same time becoming a statist. In your sovereignty lays your true right to complain about what the voters (statists) have made possible by supporting government. In politics everything is predetermined to a huge degree, like when the Americans had to "choose" between John Kerry and Bush (both Skull n Bones members). Republicans and democrats or Right and Left party (as a Hegelian Dialectic) is like the two wings of the same bird, voting is futile, the destination is predetermined! Its all an act to keep you under the illusion that you are creating change, when all you are creating is the continuance of slavery and chaos.

The ball and chain type of slavery is not the only kind of slavery. Usurped are the Kings (master) and subjects (slave) mentality by government and its mind control.


Slavery is the notion that somebody in authority can tell you, whilst you are NOT hurting anybody, what you can or cannot do. Slavery is taxation, theft against your will, of the product of your labour. Slavery is prohibition, telling you what you can and cannot put into your body, its a claim of ownership against your body. But most people cannot see that, because the mind control in effect. - Mark Passio, PodCast#143