Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

[cuitlahuac]

Universities are not teaching 21st century physics.


"Golden Age" denotes a period of primordial peace, harmony, stability, and prosperity. During this age peace and harmony prevailed, people did not have to work to feed themselves, for the earth provided food in abundance. They lived to a very old age with a youthful appearance, eventually dying peacefully, with spirits living on as "guardians".
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

Most prestigious universities are 70 years behind schedule. Max Plank pinpointed the next area of research in physics in the 30's of last century. That area of research was consciousness. We can see this in his latest quotes like the one below:


I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
- As quoted in The Observer (25 January 1931)

So far, only L. Ronald Hubbard has done research on the field of consciousness creating matter and universes. Many of it is contained in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures.

It´s time to take Universities out of the dark ages of "matter is God" and into the "consciousness creates matter" paradigm. Scientology as developed by L. Ronald Hubbard is not only the continuation of research in Quantum Mechanics, as delineated by Max Plank, but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12348048_986191374774364_7614755733442528571_n.jpg?oh=bf478ef5e16e1f8d31122cc243d9f628&oe=57425793

[Matthew]

What are the ways to learn about scientology? Theres the main church but how expensive does it get? and what are the free ways to learn everything?

[cuitlahuac]

What are the ways to learn about scientology? Theres the main church but how expensive does it get? and what are the free ways to learn everything?

One can get the taped lectures in MP3 format, but I don't have the links. So far, the Philadelphia Doctorate Course can be found in transcripts:

NOTE: The problem with the "main church" is that it was taken over in 1982 by the NWO, who is still in power there along with the Government of the USA (the IRS).

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/index.php?dir=Tapes%26Lect%2FPhiladelphiaDoctorateCourseLectures+TRANSCRIPTS%2F

The lectures deal mainly with the phenomena of the mind and we as spiritual beings, but I have to make a list of the main lectures dealing with the subjects of Quantum Mechanics and creation of matter and universes.

[Matthew]

Is that published by the official church or the other factions like the free zone?

[cuitlahuac]

Is that published by the official church or the other factions like the free zone?

It is not related to the main church and is not exactly the Free Zone. The Free Zone has its own site for materials. What I have been told is that the Free Zone in Europe is the source of most of this materials, which are from the original ones produced by the main church. But Ronald Hubbard himself states in one of these tapes that Scientology must not have a monopoly on this materials. So, that's the reason to place them in the public domain.

There are also materials available in Scientolipedia, which is a US independent field.

Edit and note: Materials in Church of Scientology are altered. Some materials available in the field are also altered, so one has to verify if the lecture is from the original. The Free Zone has done this kind of job.

[cuitlahuac]

The subject is very technical, but here is one example of a lecture where Quantum Mechanics phenomena as created by consciousness (a spirit) is explained:

Quote:
All right, so… so that’s very… very… very amusing there to find out that we are dealing with a rarefaction and a condensation in such a way that we’ve got the – what?

Let’s draw a picture here and let’s call it Figure 10 of Mr. Preclear at the moment he put on the brakes. He found out that this reaction was taking place and he said, „Stop!“ Here’s your reaction center, here’s your next ridge out, R-1; next ridge out is already beginning to go; the explosion has hit him; he’s in this form at… that’s R-2, And he gets out here and he says… at this instant he says „Stop!“ Now that’s a sphere you’re looking at; that is not a two-dimensional plane, that’s a three-dimensional sphere. What’s it give him? It gives him the shape of an electron. Of course this doesn’t bear any relationship to the shape of an electron. We’re not supposed to talk about that because we’re not licensed to. It requires a special license from the Atomic Energy Commission to talk about electrons. They’re sacred property now and they’re the only ones who can have any. And uh… I… I regarded this with considerable sorrow because I probably will have to give up a couple of electrons that I kept around for old keepsakes.

What’s an electron? It’s one of those spheres. And if you can get one of those spheres to jump once, R-1 to jump out to R-2, it releases what? One quantum of energy. And this is the subject called Quantum Mechanics, because it takes a… a… a mechanic to be as jerryrigged and jacklegged about explaining this as they are. It really takes a mechanic of the kind and variety that Rube Goldberg employed to repair his models.

There’s nothing much to this. The way you get atomic fission is this way. The artillery shells – you want to know? No, we’re not going to give you any real atomic fission. Uh., the shell… the shell doesn’t… the explosion from the shell doesn’t go ‘Boooooom!’, you see? It goes ‘Boo-oo-oom!’. Now the way… way you do, is you’ve got… you’ve got something which is floating around and it’s making this sound. What’s happened is sound, uh… what’s happened is you’ve taken… the artillery shell has exploded and it’s gone ‘Boooom!’, see. But what… what you did was go ‘Boo-’ – and it said „Stop,“ right there. And there it’s been for just ages and ages and ages and ages. And what do you do to make an atomic explosion? You just let the artillery shell explosion go ‘Booom!’. That’s all. You’ve cut the thing loose on its timetrack, what do you know?

That’s all you do, because you just let it go from R-1 to R-2, hit the next rarefaction out. And if you let… let the thing clip on its time track and go ‘Booom!’, see, and then you’ve… it’s stopped right there and it’s been stopped for some ages. It’s been sitting there on a rock. The fellow that made this energy let it go just that far, see? And then the next step on it, and the way you get chain reaction, is to start it suddenly off of its time track and let it finish out its ‘Boo-oom!’. And it will knock out Hiroshima, of course, or anything else.

Now theoretically you could do this to a preclear. You could get his ridges, his spheres out here, going in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out, and they would go ‘Bow-oooom!’. They probably wouldn’t even hurt him. He’s indestructible.

That’s right, he is. I said that very seriously. Some guy’s going to try this and blow up half of this universe.

PDC-32 FLOWS, DISPERSAL AND RIDGES 10 10.12.52
PDC 21-40 196 PHILADELPHIA DOCTORATE COURSE 21-40
End Quote:

A dictionary is needed for words like PC or Time Track.

PC: Pre Clear, a person undergoing Scientology processing.

Ridge: A mass of energy created by the collision of two energy flows.


Time Track: The recording in mental image pictures of every event in the existence of the person.

[Matthew]

Is that published by the official church or the other factions like the free zone?

It is not related to the main church and is not exactly the Free Zone. The Free Zone has its own site for materials. What I have been told is that the Free Zone in Europe is the source of most of this materials, which are from the original ones produced by the main church. But Ronald Hubbard himself states in one of these tapes that Scientology must not have a monopoly on this materials. So, that's the reason to place them in the public domain.

There are also materials available in Scientolipedia, which is a US independent field.

Wonderful thank you

[Bill Ryan]

What are the ways to learn about scientology? Theres the main church but how expensive does it get? and what are the free ways to learn everything?

—> Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org)

Do NOT NOT NOT go anywhere near the Church of Scientology, or any of their own (altered-from-original) materials.

[Bill Ryan]

So, that's the reason to place them in the public domain.



I was the anonymous co-spearhead of the small handful of people that spent 6 months, 24/7, doing all that ourselves, back in 2004.

We digitized everything, and released it all on the net. I created and ran the temporary website — long since taken down by Church of Scientology lawyers — but by the time it was all forcibly closed down, the genie was out of the bottle for good.

[Matthew]

So, that's the reason to place them in the public domain.



I was the anonymous co-spearhead of the small handful of people that spent 6 months, 24/7, doing all that ourselves, back in 2004.

We digitized everything, and released it all on the net. I created and ran the temporary website — long since taken down by Church of Scientology lawyers — but by the time it was all forcibly closed down, the genie was out of the bottle for good.

Actually I didn't say that, but I do believe in placing information in the public domain! so its all good. I will confess I am a strong believer in freedom to learn and I distrust organised religion in all its forms, expecting them to exploit information for financial gain. Religious information in the public domain is useful for example the bible, in some editions had passages changed over time, and some taken out. Because we have the bible in the public domain there are web sites which column by column compare and contrast passages edition by edition. Given that there have been changes and cuts this is useful and intriguing

[bettye198]

Thank you Bill. I was co-erced into studying Scientology for some weeks because it was a part of a seminar workshop that my husband needed for practice management. It was quite an eye opener to have that thrown in my lap unawares. The dogma was melted into the practice management of his practice and then, I was stuck as it was paid for. What a surprise! So while I went through the programs and ethics courses some of it was worthy but then it got wierd for me when they invited me into an audit. The End. The searching and probing was unprofessional and invasive in my opinion. I told my husband we are outa here. And he agreed. Took what we needed for the management courses then left. Since then, I have had Scientology patients who are dear to us but we do not engage in their paradigm. We only serve them in health. L. Ron had a lot of good ideas when he started out and his first book was worthy. However, Babylon fell and into the hands of those who could not possibly align with his thinking but instead used other means of control. Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag.

[Bubu]

Most people fall into the trap when seeking knowledge from the wisdom of others instead of from his own observations. "truth is self evident"

[cuitlahuac]

Bettye
You are right in stating that "Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag." That phenomenon was multiplied by hundreds in 1982 onwards. Hubbard was not seen since 1981, the shadow USA government took over in 1982. I got in in sept 1977 and saw it. The scientologists are outside of US controlled church of Scientology.

[sigma6]

Comparing L Ron Hubbard to Max Planck... no no no... Hubbard was a science fiction writer, never a scientist... a visionary snake oil salesman, who was quoted as saying that if you want to make it rich you have to create your own religion... (and in that he is right to a certain extent, but this has nothing to do with "religion") He took all his ideas from his science fiction novels (mediocre imo) and rehashed them into an "interpretation"...

Want to get a great history on the origin of Scientology and Hubbard?... watch the Movie "Going Clear"... it will totally creep you out...

That said the idea of consciousness is central to Eastern Philosophy which supports Quantum Physics and vice versa... I find this correspondence fascinating... two ways of looking at the same phenomena... start here... watch Nassim Haramein's "Black Whole"... the physical world is not physical... it is 'intelligent energy' (what Planck suggested) but what does that really mean? ... that sounds like "consciousness" to me... consciousness is the essence of who we are... the physical body is a vessel for this "consciousness"... an interface in the physical 3D realm ... thus the "miracle" of life.... where spirit meets physical reality... virtual reality for the soul...

the 'materialists' have it backwards...

interesting bit
http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/31/what-happened-when-an-actual-scientist-of-the-mind-checked-out-l-ron-hubbard-in-1950/

[Bill Ryan]

.
Recommended, for the real story:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

[Richard S.]

I'd put this against the"belief" system of scientology...

Going clear scientology and the prison of belief
https://vimeo.com/134792862





Universities are not teaching 21st century physics.


"Golden Age" denotes a period of primordial peace, harmony, stability, and prosperity. During this age peace and harmony prevailed, people did not have to work to feed themselves, for the earth provided food in abundance. They lived to a very old age with a youthful appearance, eventually dying peacefully, with spirits living on as "guardians".
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

Most prestigious universities are 70 years behind schedule. Max Plank pinpointed the next area of research in physics in the 30's of last century. That area of research was consciousness. We can see this in his latest quotes like the one below:


I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
- As quoted in The Observer (25 January 1931)

So far, only L. Ronald Hubbard has done research on the field of consciousness creating matter and universes. Many of it is contained in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures.

It´s time to take Universities out of the dark ages of "matter is God" and into the "consciousness creates matter" paradigm. Scientology as developed by L. Ronald Hubbard is not only the continuation of research in Quantum Mechanics, as delineated by Max Plank, but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12348048_986191374774364_7614755733442528571_n.jpg?oh=bf478ef5e16e1f8d31122cc243d9f628&oe=57425793

[Michi]

Bettye
NOTE: The problem with the "main church" is that it was taken over in 1982 by the NWO, who is still in power there along with the Government of the USA (the IRS).


A bold statement!
Does anyone have actually current evidence that the Scientology Church is under government control?
If so - how is it possible they're still permitted to fight drugs and psychiatry?



.
Recommended, for the real story:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

I've read the above interview and couldn't find any proof of Dane Tops statement:
...and it’s absolutely a different subject, almost not recognizable, and the things that had the most power are so watered down that they’re ineffective.

I watched the Church's Golden Age of Technology event that shows elaborate recovery of badly subscribed texts and correcting multiple errors.

Does anyone have actual proof that current taught technology is ineffective?
Does anyone currently state that the new released basic books are watered-down versions, compared to their originals?

Looks to me a bit like a witch hunt?
Please prove me wrong. :)

[Bill Ryan]

Please prove me wrong.

What proof would be acceptable? (This is a serious question.)

I have a friend in Frankfurt who's spent 20 years detailing all the changes made in the processes (and books) since 1982. I've just written to him to ask if he can kindly remind me of the link to the website — if it's still up — where all this is recorded.

There's a LOT of stuff.

The problem with 'proof' is that one would need to be quite well-trained to understand what the problems are with the changes.

A [not very good!] analogy might be, say, a logic board for a computer. I could change one capacitor for another, and then some very different things might happen. Or it might not work at all, or it might overheat, or it might wreck some of the other components.

But if you're not an electronics engineer, I could point to the apparent difference ("look, it's a different color, and a different capacitance") — and the importance would not at ALL be obvious. To you or to me! :)






Edit to add: I heard back from my friend. The starting page in English is here:
http://dasdrittejahrtausend.de/Abaenderungen-e.html (http://www.dasdrittejahrtausend.de/Abaenderungen-e.html)

[cuitlahuac]

Comparing L Ron Hubbard to Max Planck... no no no... Hubbard was a science fiction writer, never a scientist... a visionary snake oil salesman, who was quoted as saying that if you want to make it rich you have to create your own religion... (and in that he is right to a certain extent, but this has nothing to do with "religion") He took all his ideas from his science fiction novels (mediocre imo) and rehashed them into an "interpretation"...

Hubbard did take a course on atomic and molecular phenomena (nuclear physics). An example of comparable magnitude: Just because Isaac Newton was an alchemist does not mean he couldn't write Principia Mathematica and be the father or modern science.


Want to get a great history on the origin of Scientology and Hubbard?... watch the Movie "Going Clear"... it will totally creep you out...

The main problem with Going Clear by Gibney, is that he made a tantrum over a gay issue, after he got angry with an Org after the Org opposed gay marriage legislation.


That said the idea of consciousness is central to Eastern Philosophy which supports Quantum Physics and vice versa... I find this correspondence fascinating... two ways of looking at the same phenomena... start here... watch Nassim Haramein's "Black Whole"... the physical world is not physical... it is 'intelligent energy' (what Planck suggested) but what does that really mean? ... that sounds like "consciousness" to me... consciousness is the essence of who we are... the physical body is a vessel for this "consciousness"... an interface in the physical 3D realm ... thus the "miracle" of life.... where spirit meets physical reality... virtual reality for the soul...

the 'materialists' have it backwards...

Thanks.


interesting bit
http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/31/what-happened-when-an-actual-scientist-of-the-mind-checked-out-l-ron-hubbard-in-1950/

Thanks, very funny indeed.:ROFL:

The case is that there exist people who can do that kind of things. There is photographic memory cases that can remember whole newspaper pages with a glance.

[cuitlahuac]

I'd put this against the"belief" system of scientology...

Going clear scientology and the prison of belief
https://vimeo.com/134792862


The problem with Lawrence Wright (book) and Alex Gibney (movie) is that they lack nuclear physics training. Wright makes the mistake of saying (in an interview) that Hubbard is wrong for believing that mental image pictures have mass. But that is a fact, mental image pictures do have mass, physical mass because mental image pictures are energy, and modern physics has shown that energy has mass. It's the case of the photon, the energy of light. Photons have mass and Einstein proved that with several experiments. Light is deflected by massive objects.

[cuitlahuac]

Bettye
NOTE: The problem with the "main church" is that it was taken over in 1982 by the NWO, who is still in power there along with the Government of the USA (the IRS).


A bold statement!
Does anyone have actually current evidence that the Scientology Church is under government control?
If so - how is it possible they're still permitted to fight drugs and psychiatry?


Capt. Bill Robertson also saw and was aware of the takeover in 1981-1982. He explains in one of his materials that the takeover team, instead of ordering the destruction of Scientology, decided to maintain it for the "churchies", but that the upper levels had to be only for the NWO and Illuminati "elites". And so the destruction of the upper level materials (OT Levels) began. So the "churchies" still fight drugs and psychs, but they are not permitted to go up to the real OT levels.

Evidence? The IRS made a secret agreement with CoS (Church of Scientology) where they now have IRS enforcement units in Orgs. If you don't pay your taxes dutifully, you won't be permitted to go into the upper levels (which they have sabotaged anyway).

Now, in regards of the current actual evidence of the takeover.


How IRS Runs Scientology

Not only does IRS have a hot-line telephone set up with the top people running Scientology, IRS has also ordered that they receive regular reports about any change in the leadership or organizational pattern. In other words, IRS is set up over Scientology precisely as any CEO is over any organization, as planned by Meade Emory and IRS when Emory was Legislation Attorney for the Joint Committee on Taxation and then Assistant Commisioner of IRS. This chart shows how IRS exerts command and control over Scientology through its top agents--the non-Scientologist Special Directors hand-picked by Emory and IRS to run the top corporation, Church of Spiritual Technology (CST)--and through subordinate agents, the Tax Compliance Officers in OSA's Tax Compliance Sections.

http://www.wikiscientology.org/archiv/sc-i-r-s-ology/contents/howirsruns.html

http://www.wikiscientology.org/archiv/sc-i-r-s-ology/images/howirscontrols4.gif

[cuitlahuac]

.
Recommended, for the real story:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

I've read the above interview and couldn't find any proof of Dane Tops statement:
...and it’s absolutely a different subject, almost not recognizable, and the things that had the most power are so watered down that they’re ineffective.One of the ways to water down a subject is to turn a 70 page ethics book into a Mammoth 500 page ethics book.

http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/images/lrh/_main/itse1998vs1968.jpg

In the case of taped lectures, the method is to delete things form them, like the statement of Hubbard that Scientology must not be the sole proprietor of mental knowledge or it would become a dictatorship, that part is deleted from current tapes, as I've been told.


There is only one thing that could happen to Scientology, and that is to say that it would be buried. The remedy would be buried. If it ever went out of sight, this world’s done. All you’ve got to do is invalidate it and put it out of sight and hide it, and it’ll come up in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, and mankind will find itself a slave.

So anybody that knows the remedy of this subject, anybody that knows these techniques, is himself actually under a certain responsibility – that’s to make sure that he doesn’t remain a sole proprietor. That’s all it takes, just don’t remain a sole proprietor. Don’t ever think that a monopoly of this subject is a safe thing to have. It’s not safe. It’s not safe for man; it’s not safe for this universe.
This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we’ve got some new ways to make slaves here. Let’s see that none are made.
- PDC-20 FORMATIVE STATE OF 5 6.12.52
SCIENTOLOGY: DEFINITION OF LOGIC
PDC 335

[cuitlahuac]

I watched the Church's Golden Age of Technology event that shows elaborate recovery of badly subscribed texts and correcting multiple errors.

Does anyone have actual proof that current taught technology is ineffective?
Does anyone currently state that the new released basic books are watered-down versions, compared to their originals?

Looks to me a bit like a witch hunt?
Please prove me wrong. :)

Yes, the Golden Age of Tech corrected mistakes, but that seems to me a money making move, because I have spotted easily identifiable mistakes that need correction and they were not "corrected". This indicates to me that a "future" Golden Age of Tech, will be made with more "old book burnings" and enforced purchases of the new books and tapes. One of those easily identifiable mistakes are in the Responsibility of Leaders Policy Letter (PL) (Simon Bolivar's PL) and in the definition of Magellanic Clouds in a taped lecture. You could easily correct those real mistakes by just asking course supervisors or consulting argentine or cosmology dictionaries.

The most trained people in Scientology are the Cass XIIs. One of them and the best of them all in many occasions is Pierre Etier Class XII auditor. He describes the Church's Golden Age of Technology as nothing but a money making machine for Chairman of the Board, Capt. David Miscavige. Pierre states that Chairman Miscavige receives now the royalties of these publicatons and gives figures. Chairman Miscavige has been known to spend Hubbard's money in Las Vegas (with whores).

Pierre also describes the sabotaging of the Advanced Levels.

https://classxii.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/classxii.jpg?w=500

[Shannon]

Thank you Bill. I was co-erced into studying Scientology for some weeks because it was a part of a seminar workshop that my husband needed for practice management. It was quite an eye opener to have that thrown in my lap unawares. The dogma was melted into the practice management of his practice and then, I was stuck as it was paid for. What a surprise! So while I went through the programs and ethics courses some of it was worthy but then it got wierd for me when they invited me into an audit. The End. The searching and probing was unprofessional and invasive in my opinion. I told my husband we are outa here. And he agreed. Took what we needed for the management courses then left. Since then, I have had Scientology patients who are dear to us but we do not engage in their paradigm. We only serve them in health. L. Ron had a lot of good ideas when he started out and his first book was worthy. However, Babylon fell and into the hands of those who could not possibly align with his thinking but instead used other means of control. Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag.

Your last sentence couldn't be more spot on.

I work in scientology based office where the owners use and are a part(they do the lectures and sell the programs) of the management program. I have taken all the basic courses and used the "tech" at work because I had to. If I wanted to work there I had to sign a paper stating that I must follow and use the teachings of Hubbard provided by the company. I have a supervisor and spend about 2 hours a week doing more courses now that I've finished the basic ones.

I even pm'd Bill asking about this because at the time I felt a little weird about it.

I haven't paid for any of the courses. They give them to me free because I'm an employee but I do know of a few people who have spent loads of cash for their "audits"....it's ridiculous. Imo.

[Ewan]

.
Recommended, for the real story:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

Well that was interesting, thank you.

[cuitlahuac]

More about Scientology as a subject continuing the line of research of Quantum Physics, and as the incursion of Religion in the field of physical sciences. Scientology has a great impact in the field of cosmology.


Cosmology (from the Greek κόσμος, kosmos "world" and -λογία, -logia "study of"), is the study of the origin, evolution, and eventual fate of the universe. Physical cosmology is the scholarly and scientific study of the origin, evolution, large-scale structures and dynamics, and ultimate fate of the universe, as well as the scientific laws that govern these realities... Physical cosmology is studied by scientists, such as astronomers and physicists, as well as philosophers, such as metaphysicians, philosophers of physics, and philosophers of space and time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology

Quote:
I don’t think this subject has ever been taught here on Earth before. Ah, there’ve been some wild subjects taught here. There’s been "Nazi intelligence services, the conduct thereof,“ wildest subject I know practically to date. All sorts of subjects, they’ve taught things called elementary physics, real wild subjects. They teach in universities now they teach „atomic and molecular phenomena“ under the name of „nuclear physics“ and teach it as though they knew. There’s wild things going on, but no subject as wild as this.

Fortunately, very few subjects are as elementary or as basically simple in their parts as this. So on the one hand when you say what this subject is, you can expect people’s hair to stand on end. And then if you went ahead and explained its various component parts and it might only take you three weeks, they would suddenly realize that the subject was knowable.

And that’s one of the first things you’ve got to know when I announce this subject to you. The subject is knowable, quite knowable. And you can satisfy yourself that it’s knowable in a very short space of time. You can satisfy yourself the first day you use creative processing, you will suddenly realize that you are handling a knowable subject, then you realize that you’re studying then this subject, don’t be too shocked. Because you are studying the anatomy of universes. The construction, maintenance, destruction of universes of various kinds and dimensions with concomitant component parts. I just threw the last in to make it sound good. You’re studying the basic structure. This is the most elementary level of its study. We’re studying the basic structure and experience. Get that, structure and experience, called the MEST [Mater, Energy, Space and Time] universe. That’s the most elementary of these studies.
End Quote:

- PDC-01 OPENING: WHAT IS TO BE DONE IN COURSE
1.12.52

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Constellation_Fornax%2C_EXtreme_Deep_Field.jpg/280px-Constellation_Fornax%2C_EXtreme_Deep_Field.jpg


The Hubble eXtreme Deep Field (XDF) was completed in September 2012 and shows the farthest galaxies ever photographed. Except for the few stars in the foreground (which are bright and easily recognizable because only they have diffraction spikes), every speck of light in the photo is an individual galaxy, some of them as old as 13.2 billion years; the observable universe is estimated to contain more than 200 billion galaxies.

[sigma6]

I remember them as a regular fixture on the streets of Toronto... it was very weird to me then... (still is)... this has all the criteria of a cult imo... the movement is all about money and politics...

And this thing with the "Sea organization" is a legal subterfuge, operating outside the jurisdiction of any government (my goal too... but this is an extreme angle, and it is simply creating another corporation and bounding people to it by contract (by pledge) the same as countries do... i.e. he created his own pyramid corporation. Hubbard was a real hustler.

a bit of a surprise kicker at the end... enjoy...

Going Clear
BpKheZtiRCQ

[cuitlahuac]

interesting bit
http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/31/what-happened-when-an-actual-scientist-of-the-mind-checked-out-l-ron-hubbard-in-1950/

I want to comment more on this:

Marvin Minsky, founder MIT’s AI laboratory, in visiting Hubbard's foundation and asking him to demonstrate the abilities of a clear by remembering a newspaper page and telling it back, is missing the real scientific importance of Dianetics.

Dianetics found that the mind stores in detail every aspect of reality. An example would make this clear.

Your computer stores every action you make in it, but accessing that data is not in everybody's capacity. Also, the NSA stores every action you do in the net, but having aces to those records requires a technique. One of the techniques to recover the image pictures in the mind is regressive hypnosis and Reverie in Dianetics.

Marvin Minsk concentrated in proving Hubbard wrong, instead of understanding the real discovery, that the mind records everything in detail, including moments of unconsciousness.

[Clear Light]

I remember them as a regular fixture on the streets of Toronto... it was very weird to me then... (still is)... this has all the criteria of a cult imo... the movement is all about money and politics...

Oh, I used to volunteer at a charity in London for homeless people and would regularly drive their minibus up Tottenham Court Road on Saturday afternoon right past Scientology's building there ... I forget how many times there was some kind of a demonstration taking place opposite of it with lots and lots of people wearing those Anonymous masks ...


http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/images/scientology-protest-01.jpg

I did wonder what all the fuss was about LOL :bigsmile:

[cuitlahuac]

I remember them as a regular fixture on the streets of Toronto... it was very weird to me then... (still is)... this has all the criteria of a cult imo... the movement is all about money and politics...

And this thing with the "Sea organization" is a legal subterfuge, operating outside the jurisdiction of any government (my goal too... but this is an extreme angle, and it is simply creating another corporation and bounding people to it by contract (by pledge) the same as countries do... i.e. he created his own pyramid corporation. Hubbard was a real hustler.

a bit of a surprise kicker at the end... enjoy...

Going Clear
BpKheZtiRCQ

For Gibney to present this without explaining the takeover by the shadow government of the USA is covering up the government of the USA. This is the same mistake made by Marvin Minsk of MIT, discard a real discovery just to make mock of somebody.

The only way to defeat Miscavige and his shadow USA masters is to be more able than them.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Scientology follows the scientific method:

The Oxford English Dictionary defines the scientific method as "a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

L Ronald Hubbard used the systematic observation of thousands of previous knowledge to elaborate hypothesis to make predictions, gather data on the predictions and elaborate axioms with which to make a theory, and with which theory elaborate techniques.

L Ronald Hubbard not only did the job of the scientist in developing a scientific theory, but also did the job of the technician and engineer, in developing techniques to get results.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/The_Scientific_Method_as_an_Ongoing_Process.svg/450px-The_Scientific_Method_as_an_Ongoing_Process.svg.png

[cuitlahuac]

I remember them as a regular fixture on the streets of Toronto... it was very weird to me then... (still is)... this has all the criteria of a cult imo... the movement is all about money and politics...

Oh, I used to volunteer at a charity in London for homeless people and would regularly drive their minibus up Tottenham Court Road on Saturday afternoon right past Scientology's building there ... I forget how many times there was some kind of a demonstration taking place opposite of it with lots and lots of people wearing those Anonymous masks ...


http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/images/scientology-protest-01.jpg

I did wonder what all the fuss was about LOL :bigsmile:

It is real that anonymous does a great job at attacking the abuses and sociopaths at CoS, but this has come to develop as a wish list for intell agencies (CIA, MI-6, Mossad) in creating division. Those intell agencies (CIA, MI-6, Mossad) have created artificial division between christians and muslims, for their Illuminati agenda for Armagedon. They are the real supporters of ISIS, the real rapists of woman in Germany. Same with Scientology, the takeover elements in CoS are creating a third party or animosity between factions. Just as Dane Tops explained in his letter and interview.


http://www.projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops_envelope.gif



Personally, I believe that before I (quote) “blew the whistle” the place was already completely infiltrated by the Illuminati. Their intention was to produce exactly that result (a very bad opinion) on the general public. The Church was fully corrupted and made a mockery of what it was intended to be and started out to be. Goal accomplished.
- Dane Tops interview in Camelot.

http://www.projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html



The APPARENCY of the problem is between the "field" (including splinter groups) and the MANAGEMENT, including the Financial Police. The current opposition between these factions has caused untold devastation to the Church. However, I believe NEITHER SIDE is the source of trouble -- although EACH SIDE believes the OTHER SIDE is source. I do not know who this hidden WHO is but it has been there a very long time.
- Dane Tops Letter.

http://www.projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops_letter.pdf

[cuitlahuac]

One of the requisites of science is that its experiments must be able to be replicated.

One example of scientific validation of Scientology (duplication of experiments) is the subject of time track perception, or as it is known in the intell world, remote viewing.

Hubbard did "remote viewing" or time track perception in 1952, in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. This was replicated by the CIA in its remote viewing program at Stanford Research Institute and latter by CIA spooks creating remote viewing schools, like Ed Dames.

What the CIA spooks apparently were not told by their CIA teacher Ingo Swan is that there are 5 tracks in remote viewing, the imaginary track, the track of the object, the track of the remote viewer etc.

Here is the case:

Quote:
Now there’s another system you can use to bring him up to present time, which is nowhere near as good. That is to say, you can say, „Pick up this room when it was constructed and move it on forward to present time, then move it right on forward into the future.“ He’s liable to hit that on any of five tracks, and it doesn’t lead to a certainty. What’s the test of a good technique? The test of a good technique and the gradient scale of the goodness of techniques would be the gradient scale of certainties.

...

All right, you get two preclears [person undergoing Scientology procedures], and you scan them up through this track, by the way, and they both arrive in present time again, and they’ll have a heck of a fight. One went on the imaginary track, and the other one went on his own facsimile [mental recording] track; they didn’t go on the same track when you scanned them up through the history of the room. One says the room is going to burn up in two days, and the other one says it’ll be here in the year 2006, at which time it’ll be destroyed by an atom bomb. That’s future havingness. That’s going to be established by somebody. People are changing havingness all the time, within the agreements of change.
End Quote:

PDC-46 GOALS: REHABILITATION OF THETAN [the person, the spiritual being],
CASE STEP 1

CIA spook Ed Dames created a business to teach remote viewing. He made some predictions, but they do not stick. Apparently he was not told about the 5 different tracks and the changing of havingness. In the example above and in the Controlled Remote Viewing techniques developed by Ingo Swan in the CIA / SRI experiments, we see Hubbard's techniques being replicated as science demands.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JdtFMphzTh4/TzNX9yBfTvI/AAAAAAAAADY/wBjShYC2i9M/s1600/Controlled+Remote+Viewing+for+Scientific+Investigations.jpg

[boutreality]

To the one that started this thread,

All you are offering are concepts to cover concepts to elucidate prognostications put forth, originally, by a man that disobeyed Crowley (not a bad thing) to hold a ceremony with Jack Parsons to create a Moonchild (not a good thing). Information gathered from this ceremony -Mixed with general principles of mainly eastern thought and an endemically self-referential take on opportunistically applied scientific hypotheses, theories, and laws- was used to create a religion.

At its core Scientology weakens the reasoning faculty of its adherents, if this is done in order to lay foundations to reassemble a stronger reasoning center, that’s great. NONE OF THE “DOGMA” -Used to reference a system of principles which justify an end- AND TECH FOUND IN SCIENTOLOGY IS NECESSARY TO WEAKEN THEN REBUILD AN OUTMODED -belonging to the generally misguided world- REASONING CENTER. Conceptually, this same process is used by Yogis; Fakirs; Sufis; Shamans; any tradition stressing individual growth in what is -at its root- a gnostic endeavor.

More distressing is that in practice Scientology creates, seemingly as a matter of course, blind adherence to its end. The same cannot be said for any of the practitioners in the above referenced traditions, if one has sufficiently progressed along these paths the idea of argument on points, sets of language based concepts and comparative accomplishment is laughable. Scientologists may liken the state suggested in the last sentence to a state “Clear” (pre or no- I hold back chuckles to think it) and who cares? They follow a tradition -relying on technological devices and situational contrivances- they believe provides them a shortcut.

Not only is this shortcut not accomplished, their processes open a Scientologist up to become a “blank” psyche, one that can and is used -to become a conduit- to attack non scientologists. It does this so well in fact that a Scientologist -after their psyche is rewritten- may not even know they are launching any attack at all. The reasoning behind this is multi-faceted and I will close by imparting my own bold take on the matter (note that I do not care if what follows is believed).

Just as this country and many others’ military and governance was taken over by Nazism at the end of the WW2, wherein the US military, knowingly or not, became the mighty arm of the Nazi party, Scientology was started as an externalization of entry-level Nazi religion. -Adherents are used (often remaining ignorant of the actual factors at play, again, like most of the military) by their superiors to deliver what can only be likened to curses, entity attachments, and mind control protocols. The actual technological agents at work in this process are out-of-phase and inter-dimensional machines. The person delivering the attack, simply the ‘exit’ stage of the route the attack travels. An overview of the system at work in that regard is attached.

[cuitlahuac]

...
Does anyone have actual proof that current taught technology is ineffective?
...

Looks to me a bit like a witch hunt?
Please prove me wrong. :)

The squirreling [alterations out of misunderstanding of a subject] of the OT levels:

Quote:
NEW OT LEVELS VS OLD OT LEVELS [No confidential data included]

There is no such thing as OLD and NEW OT Levels, except within RTC's [Religious Technology Center] feverish mind (and therefore those of its followers). Except for "old OT I" (originally developed in 1966 and found in 1967 by LRH [Ronald Hubbard] to be a dead-end), there has not been, since 1967 any "OLD OT Levels".

Its core issues written up in 1969, LRH found OT VIII to be "only for a High level Thetan", and the gradient simply too steep for most people, even a Full OT 7 completion. It took nearly a decade for tech to be developed to address those points.

Finally in 1978, LRH triumphantly announced that NOTS [New Era Dianetics for OTs] was the answer and the prerequisite for OT VIII. NOTS was found to be a far longer rundown than originally expected. Unfortunately over the next few years, RTC and the CSI (Church of Scientology International) re-wrote the bridge solely for "Marketing" and "Income Making Purposes" and not for "technical Reasons". NOTS, became "New OT V". The Solo NOTS Course (NOT an OT level, by any standard), became "New OT VI", and Solo NOTS (essentially the continuation of NOTS auditing, but done Solo, became "New OT VII". This was done, disregarding the obvious fact that by making "New Levels", the previous ones of the same name automatically became "OLD", in complete contrast to the Issues on technical Degrades. The issues on technical degrades are deemed so important by LRH, that he has ordered them to be at the beginning of every single course in Scientology. There is also no issue whatsoever or even order from LRH advising to market NOTS and Solo NOTS as "New OT V-VII" and to drop the previous line-up. This was a "bright idea" entirely dreamed up by the "New Management". To compound the felony, the entirety of the NOTS materials was purposely NEVER fully released by the Church to its own auditors or Public!

Why would someone do such a thing? More crass than the mere Evil Intent to Harm others because of some fancied threat, (the true genus of the Suppressive), Money and Greed are the actual motives. By releasing the entirety of NOTS and OT VIII, Flag is in great Danger of forever loosing its public, because they have no Intention of releasing OT IX anytime soon.

By keeping a trickle of LRH Tech coming in, the Church feels it can maintain its rein over all of its public. Better yet, by releasing "New Vital Tech" the Church can even justify recycling its OT VIII public through a second run of NOTS and then OT VIII (a cycle they may feel justified in repeating over and over if the number of its public continues at its current stagnant level).

- Pierre Ethier, Class XII Auditor
End Quote:

http://www.upperbridge.org/OT8PLUS.htm

https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpt1/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/12195885_967947066598795_4904030357229578158_n.jpg?oh=641b33aaa6802d23b4879dccdb1ff6c7&oe=570EDF93&__gda__=1460220341_748cffe1dfcad636a6f0d39dde490fb1

[cuitlahuac]

To the one that started this thread,

All you are offering are concepts to cover concepts to elucidate prognostications put forth, originally, by a man that disobeyed Crowley (not a bad thing) to hold a ceremony with Jack Parsons to create a Moonchild (not a good thing). Information gathered from this ceremony -Mixed with general principles of mainly eastern thought and an endemically self-referential take on opportunistically applied scientific hypotheses, theories, and laws- was used to create a religion.

...

Just as this country and many others’ military and governance was taken over by Nazism at the end of the WW2, wherein the US military, knowingly or not, became the mighty arm of the Nazi party, Scientology was started as an externalization of entry-level Nazi religion. -Adherents are used (often remaining ignorant of the actual factors at play, again, like most of the military) by their superiors to deliver what can only be likened to curses, entity attachments, and mind control protocols. The actual technological agents at work in this process are out-of-phase and inter-dimensional machines. The person delivering the attack, simply the ‘exit’ stage of the route the attack travels. An overview of the system at work in that regard is attached.

boutreality. This thread is on the subject of Scientology as it has to do with the scientific method and the field of physics, philosophy and scientific study of the spirit. So far only Sigma6 has commented on that aspect. But of course the religious aspect is connected with all this, so let me read the attachment to comment on your post.

[cuitlahuac]

To the one that started this thread,

All you are offering are concepts to cover concepts to elucidate prognostications put forth, originally, by a man that disobeyed Crowley (not a bad thing) to hold a ceremony with Jack Parsons to create a Moonchild (not a good thing). Information gathered from this ceremony -Mixed with general principles of mainly eastern thought and an endemically self-referential take on opportunistically applied scientific hypotheses, theories, and laws- was used to create a religion.


This thread is about Scientology and the scientific method of observing and analyzing phenomena to elaborate hypothesis from which to make predictions which are analyzed to form a theory with axioms. Now on the religious part of Scientology, of course a philosopher needs to know not only the most primitive and modern religious thinking of man in academia, but also the compilation Crowley made of ancient and hebrew knowledge. "Very good friend" Crowley is a must for philosophers.



At its core Scientology weakens the reasoning faculty of its adherents, if this is done in order to lay foundations to reassemble a stronger reasoning center, that’s great. NONE OF THE “DOGMA” -Used to reference a system of principles which justify an end- AND TECH FOUND IN SCIENTOLOGY IS NECESSARY TO WEAKEN THEN REBUILD AN OUTMODED -belonging to the generally misguided world- REASONING CENTER. Conceptually, this same process is used by Yogis; Fakirs; Sufis; Shamans; any tradition stressing individual growth in what is -at its root- a gnostic endeavor.


Do not confuse Scientology prior to 1982 with today's USA / IRS run travesty of it.
I have seen the contrary. Modern academia weakens the reasoning faculty of its adherents. Only when people study Scientology (prior to 1982), do I see their reasoning faculties enhance. It's imperative that "scholars" in academia get out of their squirrel cages and into the real world.



More distressing is that in practice Scientology creates, seemingly as a matter of course, blind adherence to its end. The same cannot be said for any of the practitioners in the above referenced traditions, if one has sufficiently progressed along these paths the idea of argument on points, sets of language based concepts and comparative accomplishment is laughable. Scientologists may liken the state suggested in the last sentence to a state “Clear” (pre or no- I hold back chuckles to think it) and who cares? They follow a tradition -relying on technological devices and situational contrivances- they believe provides them a shortcut.


Do not confuse blind adherence with understanding. Example: In a symphonic orchestra, the conductor is not directing the orchestra by mind control or hypnotism or blind faith. The musicians are very independent people and if they do follow every direction of the conductor is because they agree to do so in order to achieve a result, which is to perform for the public. They must be in very good shape and very awake in order to carry out instant compliance with the conductor's commands.



Not only is this shortcut not accomplished, their processes open a Scientologist up to become a “blank” psyche, one that can and is used -to become a conduit- to attack non scientologists. It does this so well in fact that a Scientologist -after their psyche is rewritten- may not even know they are launching any attack at all. The reasoning behind this is multi-faceted and I will close by imparting my own bold take on the matter (note that I do not care if what follows is believed).


Don't confuse attack with self defense or protection.



Just as this country and many others’ military and governance was taken over by Nazism at the end of the WW2, wherein the US military, knowingly or not, became the mighty arm of the Nazi party, Scientology was started as an externalization of entry-level Nazi religion. -Adherents are used (often remaining ignorant of the actual factors at play, again, like most of the military) by their superiors to deliver what can only be likened to curses, entity attachments, and mind control protocols. The actual technological agents at work in this process are out-of-phase and inter-dimensional machines. The person delivering the attack, simply the ‘exit’ stage of the route the attack travels. An overview of the system at work in that regard is attached.


"curses, entity attachments, and mind control protocols" is what is being eliminated in Scientology. That is why I can now see "curses, entity attachments, and mind control protocols" of people.

What makes you believe that the out of phase and interdimensional machines are not known and addressed in advanced Scientology levels?

[wegge]

Hello!

Could you please elaborate a bit on the creating of many universes? Since that is a topic I also got interested in during the last year.

kind regards
Christoph

[sigma6]

interesting bit
http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/31/what-happened-when-an-actual-scientist-of-the-mind-checked-out-l-ron-hubbard-in-1950/

I want to comment more on this:

Marvin Minsky, founder MIT’s AI laboratory, in visiting Hubbard's foundation and asking him to demonstrate the abilities of a clear by remembering a newspaper page and telling it back, is missing the real scientific importance of Dianetics.

Dianetics found that the mind stores in detail every aspect of reality. An example would make this clear.

Your computer stores every action you make in it, but accessing that data is not in everybody's capacity. Also, the NSA stores every action you do in the net, but having aces to those records requires a technique. One of the techniques to recover the image pictures in the mind is regressive hypnosis and Reverie in Dianetics.

Marvin Minsk concentrated in proving Hubbard wrong, instead of understanding the real discovery, that the mind records everything in detail, including moments of unconsciousness.

agree that all information is stored, this was proven by Wilder Penfield, applying mild electric shocks to the surface of the human brain... I 'm sure Hubbard was aware of this science, it was quite famous at the time... but did Hubbard create a way to retrieve it at will?... any better then any other memory retrieval technique... I don't think so...

[sigma6]

I remember them as a regular fixture on the streets of Toronto... it was very weird to me then... (still is)... this has all the criteria of a cult imo... the movement is all about money and politics...

Oh, I used to volunteer at a charity in London for homeless people and would regularly drive their minibus up Tottenham Court Road on Saturday afternoon right past Scientology's building there ... I forget how many times there was some kind of a demonstration taking place opposite of it with lots and lots of people wearing those Anonymous masks ...


http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/images/scientology-protest-01.jpg

I did wonder what all the fuss was about LOL :bigsmile:

It is real that anonymous does a great job at attacking the abuses and sociopaths at CoS, but this has come to develop as a wish list for intell agencies (CIA, MI-6, Mossad) in creating division. Those intell agencies (CIA, MI-6, Mossad) have created artificial division between christians and muslims, for their Illuminati agenda for Armagedon. They are the real supporters of ISIS, the real rapists of woman in Germany. Same with Scientology, the takeover elements in CoS are creating a third party or animosity between factions. Just as Dane Tops explained in his letter and interview.


http://www.projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops_envelope.gif



Personally, I believe that before I (quote) “blew the whistle” the place was already completely infiltrated by the Illuminati. Their intention was to produce exactly that result (a very bad opinion) on the general public. The Church was fully corrupted and made a mockery of what it was intended to be and started out to be. Goal accomplished.
- Dane Tops interview in Camelot.

http://www.projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html



The APPARENCY of the problem is between the "field" (including splinter groups) and the MANAGEMENT, including the Financial Police. The current opposition between these factions has caused untold devastation to the Church. However, I believe NEITHER SIDE is the source of trouble -- although EACH SIDE believes the OTHER SIDE is source. I do not know who this hidden WHO is but it has been there a very long time.
- Dane Tops Letter.

http://www.projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops_letter.pdf

Could it be that Hubbard was just out to make money using his proliferate writing skill? and that it took off out of control at a time of great existential crisis in America?... and once it started making money... the bureaucracy was already built in... (i.e. someone always collecting info and "testing" someone else) ...once money starts rolling in... there will never be a way to stop it, especially since they got it recognized as a "religion"... I would say he is the guy that figured out how to get a camel through the eye of a needle.. this guy was a master of understanding subtle definition... the whole legal system is based on the control and understanding the subtle meaning of words and the hidden implication of subtle definitions...

I think Hubbard was a genius in this... he was a wordsmith of the highest caliber... he really figured out "the system" in a way... (just like Phillip K Dick was having premonitions of what the matrix was decade ahead of everyone else...) for that he is brilliant... and then he used it to create his own system... for his own gain... just calling it what it is.... no doubt the man is brilliant... the best cons usually are...

[Clear Light]

I think Hubbard was a genius in this... he was a wordsmith of the highest caliber... he really figured out "the system" in a way... (just like Phillip K Dick was having premonitions of what the matrix was decade ahead of everyone else...) for that he is brilliant... and then he used it to create his own system... for his own gain... just calling it what it is.... no doubt the man is brilliant... the best cons usually are...

Oh, yeah, I don't doubt the "auditing" sessions has its "effects" giving a sense of progress and possible "achievable goals" such as "Clear" or OT Level X,Y,Z etc ... BUT IMHE unless the underlying sense of "self", the "I" or the "Ego" is addressed then I cannot see how it is anything except for an "Ego Trip" with the allure of "Super Powers " ...

Just saying :wink:

[boutreality]

Take the chapter "The Science of Kriya Yoga" in "The Autobiography of a Yogi" and the book "The Power of Now" as your base gnosis. (Other texts exist which are applicable but this combination is rather concise and salient.)
Discipline your body and mind with a bodily practice (yoga; chi gung; tai chi; aikido, etc.) while
Regularly meditate, closely minding your diet and how changes to it affect your being, and over time any of the claimed goals of Scientology (or any tradition) are accomplished.

I do use a binaural theta track often while meditating and that's all the 'tech' I ever needed. Total cost here is about 30-50$ and outcome solely based on my own practice without talk and audits and any procedure requiring the presence of another.

"There's a darkness upon us that's flooded in light, and I'm frightened by those that don't see it." "Road Full of Promise, Head Full of Doubt" by The Avett Brothers.

[cuitlahuac]

I think Hubbard was a genius in this... he was a wordsmith of the highest caliber... he really figured out "the system" in a way... (just like Phillip K Dick was having premonitions of what the matrix was decade ahead of everyone else...) for that he is brilliant... and then he used it to create his own system... for his own gain... just calling it what it is.... no doubt the man is brilliant... the best cons usually are...

Oh, yeah, I don't doubt the "auditing" sessions has its "effects" giving a sense of progress and possible "achievable goals" such as "Clear" or OT Level X,Y,Z etc ... BUT IMHE unless the underlying sense of "self", the "I" or the "Ego" is addressed then I cannot see how it is anything except for an "Ego Trip" with the allure of "Super Powers " ...

Just saying :wink:

Listen to the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures (1952) or Read the books published in the mid 50's to know how the "self", the "I" or the "Ego" (the spiritual being) is addressed and explained.

[cuitlahuac]

Hello!

Could you please elaborate a bit on the creating of many universes? Since that is a topic I also got interested in during the last year.

kind regards
Christoph

I need to quote from the tapes described here, but there is the Home Universe, universes created as a group activity. Hubbard speaks of a previous universe, a magical one, and he speaks of a next one worse than this if we don't rehabilitate the thetans (us, spiritual beings).

In the field of physics, there's the Many Worlds theory of Everet, in which theory, the known universe creates branches of parallel universes for every quantum outcome perceived.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Take the chapter "The Science of Kriya Yoga" in "The Autobiography of a Yogi" and the book "The Power of Now" as your base gnosis. (Other texts exist which are applicable but this combination is rather concise and salient.)
Discipline your body and mind with a bodily practice (yoga; chi gung; tai chi; aikido, etc.) while
Regularly meditate, closely minding your diet and how changes to it affect your being, and over time any of the claimed goals of Scientology (or any tradition) are accomplished.

I do use a binaural theta track often while meditating and that's all the 'tech' I ever needed. Total cost here is about 30-50$ and outcome solely based on my own practice without talk and audits and any procedure requiring the presence of another.

"There's a darkness upon us that's flooded in light, and I'm frightened by those that don't see it." "Road Full of Promise, Head Full of Doubt" by The Avett Brothers.

What makes you believe we don't see the darkness? And what makes you believe it is not "being addressed"?

What are "the claimed goals of Scientology" in your words?

[cuitlahuac]

agree that all information is stored, this was proven by Wilder Penfield, applying mild electric shocks to the surface of the human brain... I 'm sure Hubbard was aware of this science, it was quite famous at the time... but did Hubbard create a way to retrieve it at will?... any better then any other memory retrieval technique... I don't think so...

Thanks a lot. If Wilder Penfield was so famous at the time... what happened to that research? Was it organized so that it benefited mankind? Is there a good memory retrieval technique developed from that that is affordable for the average citizen?

[boutreality]

Please note that I will respond to this and a question in a personal message Daozen asked in a new thread.

I am not particularly interested in Scientology's taken gnosis as, for me:

1. It is too reliant on technology.
2. Is an organized application of a particular subset of knowledge which demands adherents become reliant, far quite a long time, on other people in its hierarchy.
3. While I do acknowledge the scientific principles purported by its structured beliefs, I cannot agree with its apparent claim that to me, simply states: "It's science, so that makes it valid."
4. That Scientologists in general, are not comfortable allowing others to see the world as they will, applying a discipline as they will and they consider such a stance Ethical and not an imposition of their will upon another. If we're both pursuing a valid, good-nature goal, our methods to reach that end need not cause infighting.
5. Every point you have raised, at its root (including the science) is sophistry, citing the founder and his cohorts, arguing, "It's that way because this says it's that way."

Again, my opinion; my thread will be my final word on this exchange and I will gratefully leave you to your own substrate of knowledge as you champion and wish you well. Might you do me (us) the same?

[cuitlahuac]

Please note that I will respond to this and a question in a personal message Daozen asked in a new thread.

I am not particularly interested in Scientology's taken gnosis as, for me:


1. It is too reliant on technology.

Scientology does not rely on technology, save for the purpose to evaluate the scientific hypothesis theories or axioms of it. Science and technology are different things. Example. Quantum mechanics is a science. Semiconductor electronics is a technology which relies on quantum mechanics phenomena to build transistors and computers. Similarly, Scientology as a science is one thing and its technology (processes) is another.


2. Is an organized application of a particular subset of knowledge which demands adherents become reliant, far quite a long time, on other people in its hierarchy.

The basic books for people insist repeatedly that they must verify the information, and if it is true for them, then it is true for them. The particular subset of knowledge it was built from, encompasses all phenomena of the universe, mind and spirit. That includes The Veda, nuclear physics, very good friend Crowley (hebrew and Eastern knowledge) and many more.


3. While I do acknowledge the scientific principles purported by its structured beliefs, I cannot agree with its apparent claim that to me, simply states: "It's science, so that makes it valid."

In the Scientology basic books it is stressed that the validity of science depends on its ability to explain phenomena in our daily life and the universe. So the "apparent" claim that "It's science, so that makes it valid." is a false claim or if stated, not a Scientology claim at all.


4. That Scientologists in general, are not comfortable allowing others to see the world as they will, applying a discipline as they will and they consider such a stance Ethical and not an imposition of their will upon another. If we're both pursuing a valid, good-nature goal, our methods to reach that end need not cause infighting.

I as a scientologist have no problem with "others seeing the world as they will, and applying a discipline as they will" so long as they don't try to change basic Scientology principles for reason of undue control of others, for profit or personal gain.


5. Every point you have raised, at its root (including the science) is sophistry, citing the founder and his cohorts, arguing, "It's that way because this says it's that way."

Simple Definition of sophistry
: the use of reasoning or arguments that sound correct but are actually false

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sophistry

In the OP and most of the answers I have given I haven't cited the founder and his cohorts, arguing, "It's that way because this says it's that way." If it's otherwise, please show me.


Again, my opinion; my thread will be my final word on this exchange and I will gratefully leave you to your own substrate of knowledge as you champion and wish you well. Might you do me (us) the same?

Yes, I leave you to your own substrate of knowledge as you champion and wish you well.

[boutreality]

All of your above replies I take no issue with. I only reiterate that my intent in that last post was my take and never did I seek to make it yours or anyone's.
I question the hierarchical codification of methods and concepts aimed to prepare an adherent for the knowledge they are to be entrusted (at each level) to act upon in a useful way.
It simply makes no sense, to me, again, that these books and system of relating a conceptual framework and its applications be obscured by levels and materials that cost money to obtain.

Be well. As I will be basing my inferred retort on my own gnosis, (tradition- if you can call it that; it's a rather sole endeavor) and not Scientology directly, (though I will address it) my separate thread is forthcoming.
Thank You

[cuitlahuac]

All of your above replies I take no issue with. I only reiterate that my intent in that last post was my take and never did I seek to make it yours or anyone's.
I question the hierarchical codification of methods and concepts aimed to prepare an adherent for the knowledge they are to be entrusted (at each level) to act upon in a useful way.
It simply makes no sense, to me, again, that these books and system of relating a conceptual framework and its applications be obscured by levels and materials that cost money to obtain.

Be well. As I will be basing my inferred retort on my own gnosis, (tradition- if you can call it that; it's a rather sole endeavor) and not Scientology directly, (though I will address it) my separate thread is forthcoming.
Thank You

Thanks a lot. By the way, the basic books were very affordable in my time (early 80's). 50 pages on average. Today you can get the materials in the internet, including the super secret advanced levels. The only thing that costs money are the computers or internet stores to access them.

In regards to top level technology, it makes no sense for the beginner, like the formula E=MC2, makes no sense for the physics beginners unless they are a theoretical physicist or a government scientist with lots of funds.

[cuitlahuac]

Most comments so far are related to the spiritual technology developed from Scientology. The effect of Scn. on the field of physics is kind of a secondary consequence.

So, comments on Scientology as a technology for life are welcome.

[boutreality]

FYI I started the thread I mentioned in the Spirituality forum. You have clearly outlined your views. The mentioned thread, and really most if not all of my posts have clearly outlined mine.
On these, I feel, we may each rest and I will seek no further interchange.
Be well

[cuitlahuac]

This is just an excerpt of the answer I put in boutreality's thread mentioned above:


Edit: I acknowledge that by the word "technology" you mean machines using spiritual energy to entrap. What I mean by Scientology technology are simply processes based on communication between two people to free a person by making the person find things about himself. Different technology to that of spiritual energy machines.

Further note: Today the USA / IRS Iluminati controlled Church of Scientology utilizes the Scientology processes and advanced levels to also entrap, and those methods are sometimes as gruesome or worse than the ones described by boutreality. Its called reverse auditing. Stay away from unreformed Church of Scientology.

[cuitlahuac]

Hello!

Could you please elaborate a bit on the creating of many universes? Since that is a topic I also got interested in during the last year.

kind regards
Christoph

Another person who elaborates on the created universes is The Pilot, Ken Ogger. His material might contain confidential data that can be hard on some. This is in his Super Scio book or there is a website with his materials, in case you want to know more on cosmic history. If you don't find him I could provide the link latter.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

In regards to the question on alteration of Scientology Materials:

III. Alterations in tapes
LRH original PDC tape 20 -

Here is excerpt from older un-edited version of PDC, (copyright L.RON HUBBARD)

"Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's 1984? Yes,yes, that's wonderful. That would be--------could be the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence."

Altered version of PDC tape 20:

"Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced."

The rest of the segment as it appears above was SEAMLESSLY deleted.


Here's another one:

Correct version:

"It's a very simple remedy. And that's-just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That's all.Don't horde it, don't hold it; and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn't available. Because he's the boy who would be electing himself "The New Order." And we don't need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I am concerned, have been filled."

New "improved" version:

"It's a very simple remedy. And that's-just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That's all. Don't hoard it and don't hold it."

The rest is SEAMLESSLY deleted.

http://www.dasdrittejahrtausend.de/TechAlterationsList-e.html#Part3

[cuitlahuac]

The finding in Scientology that it is consciousness (thetan or spirits) what creates matter, energy, space and time in the universe and therefore creates universes, have profound implications in cosmology, from the Expansion of the universe to the Big Bang theory.

http://www.crystalinks.com/cosmologymeta500.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

In "Keeping Scientolgoy Working" Policy Letter, Hubbard explains that his research must undergo tabulation and coordination of what has been done. That work begun with the Research and Discovery volumes. This would facilitate the research of anybody wanting to verify and research the subject of Scientology.


Our technology has not been discovered by a group. True, if the group had not supported me in many ways I could not have discovered it either. But it remains that if in its formative stages it was not discovered by a group, then group efforts, one can safely assume, will not add to it or successfully alter it in the future. I can only say this now that it is done. There remains, of course, group tabulation or coordination of what has been done, which will be valuable — only so long as it does not seek to alter basic principles and successful applications.

- L. Ronald Hubbard. HCO POLICY LETTER OF 7 FEBRUARY 1965 Keeping Scientology Working.


"A chronological study of the materials is necessary for the complete training of a truly top-grade expert in these lines. He can see how the subject progressed and so is able to see which are the highest levels of development. Not the least advantage in this is the defining of words and terms for each, when originally used, was defined, in most cases, with considerable exactitude, and one is not left with any misunderstdoods."
- L. Ron Hubbard, from HCOB 30 July 1973, SCIENTOLOGY, CURRENT STATE OF THE SUBJECT AND MATERIALS

When completed, the series will consist of 100 volumes, containing all of Mr. Hubbard's public lectures and demonstrations – unquestionably the most precious collection of wisdom and practical knowledge ever to exist.

http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.nz/media8/RDpackage.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

Ronald Hubbard's bibliography for the researcher on Scientology:

Fifty thousand years of thinking men, (that includes The Veda).

In particular:
Anaxagoras, Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Euclid, Lucretious, Robert Bacon, Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, van Leeuwenhoek, Voltaire, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Rene Descartes, James Clerk Maxwell, Charcot, Herbert Spencer, William James, Sigmund Freud, Cmdr Thompson (MC) USN, Whilliam A. White, Will Durant, Count Alfred Korzybski, Athomic and Molecular Phenomena curricula and Humanities curricula at George Washington University and Princeton in the 1930's.

http://michaelkonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2005/04/Too-Many-Books-300x220.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

Experimental Research

Experimental research is commonly used in sciences such as sociology and psychology, physics, chemistry, biology and medicine etc.

The experimental method is a systematic and scientific approach to research in which the researcher manipulates one or more variables, and controls and measures any change in other variables.

https://explorable.com/experimental-research

Here is an example of experimental research in which the variables are controlled one by one.

Quote:
I figured out the mineral content of many parts of the body, simply by overdoses of proteins and minerals and vitamins, and omitted, carefully, each vitamin in turn and each mineral in turn. And would overdose the guy to such a degree that he was developing such a thing as scurvy. You can induce scurvy this way.

You can take vitamin C, omit it from the ration, and then give him a TERRIFIC dosage of proteins and vitamins and minerals – with no vitamin C, no ascorbic acid, and in eight or ten hours of such dosage you can give him a case of scurvy, the like of which you’ve never observed. You can have his teeth just rattling in his gums. Gums all swelling up – oh, fascinating! And uh… now – now do we know that that’s vitamin C causing it? How do you know it really went to the teeth? Why, sure. He’s got a bad… bad teeth now, hasn’t he? He temporarily… you haven’t ruined him. any, particularly.

Now let’s just omit everything and let’s pump him full of vitamin C. Now the vitamin C is a sort of vacuum. And it goes instantaneously into the teeth and the gums and he will develop a toothache the like of which no dentist… dentists really ought to know about this. But uh… you feed that guy, after he’s been overdosed in everything else – don’t feed him proteins or vitamins or minerals, just feed him vitamin C. And feed it to him fast, and feed it to him in great big doses like a thousand units, you know, a thousand milligrams at a crack. And he will develop a toothache that he would rather be SHOT than suffer. He can just feel those teeth as cracking and creaking and trying to go back together again too fast.

And… and the scurvy will cure up. Of course, what you do after you’ve noticed this is just feed him some more proteins and vitamins and minerals, and they’ll take the vitamin C back out and they’ll tend to balance the ration. You can balance him up and get him back to, quote, normal, unquote, again.
End Quote:
PDC-34 8-8008 UNDERSTANDING THE PHENOMENA
11.12.52 PHILADELPHIA DOCTORATE COURSE.

[boutreality]

cuitlahuac:

I noticed you saw fit to post a reply to my thread here without addressing what I listed are the actual sources behind the White; Yellow (I); Blue (AM); Red (You)

Also, though hardly related, when I used the term "sophistry" earlier in this thread I meant the dictionary definition, not the, as you call it, "a simple" one that clearly suits your frame of reason.

If anyone other than me still engaging this thread is not simply a disguised Scientologist, you may want to check out my explanation of not only the source of these, but also their function as it pertains to their effects on people.

Consider all this crazy if you care to. I cannot in good conscience leave the following unaddressed:

Scientology is the externalization of an out-of-phase weapons system designed to work THROUGH its followers, with or without their knowledge. A few specific examples include:

In the Scientology post-birth ceremony of leaving a newborn in silence for a period of days- (or is it weeks?) -the duration is not my point, it is a process developed to GIVE the child to the moon; actually to the system I gave an overview of in the attached pdf. and have outlined aspects of in my "Scientology" Retort; Jupiter and Neptune's Roles" thread in the Spirituality Forum and also in my "Mars Base Function" thread in the Conspiracy Research forum.

This enforced silence entangles to the child's brain an out of phase a box made out of a dark metal with has a metal "tail" that extends downward, reaching all the way to the child's pelvis.
This tail is designed to extend as the child grows.

I consider all Scientologists victims of mind control that are not in control of their own actions; especially controlled in how vehemently they defend a framework of concepts that only legitimize their victimization by exceedingly advanced invisible technologies. It is entirely plausible that at some level of Scientology members are knowingly complicit in this control and that they do endorse all aspects of technology, in and out-of-phase, utilized to accomplish this control.

One more bit of tech they use to remotely control another looks pretty much like a headband made out of gold that is worn across the forehead to have deleterious affect on a victim's reasoning. -This one may actually be solid state in-phase technology and is almost certainly not exclusively used in Scientology.

A third piece of technology that is out of phase that I have perceived and have seen in use by Scientologists is a series of round flattened metal "pads" designed to link via entanglement to the upper spine and lower rear skull of their target.

This tech is used to control another, to literally make another say and do what one asks, or allow a higher ranking Scientologist to work THROUGH another; even a non-Scientologist. A second and more common use of this device is to provide technological telepathy and mental monitoring from a distance.

"...could be like Jim Jones or David Koresh; be like L Ron Hubbard, just like Joseph Smith..." -"Lamb of Nothing" by Cage

[cuitlahuac]

cuitlahuac:

"...could be like Jim Jones or David Koresh; be like L Ron Hubbard, just like Joseph Smith..." -"Lamb of Nothing" by Cage

Well, why don't you verify this question by researching L Ron Hubbard's work in the R&D volumes. They are (some) in the net. Link below.

http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.nz/media8/RDpackage.jpg

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/index.php?dir=RED+and+BLUE+VOLUMES%2FR%26Ds+PDF%2F

[Clear Light]

I think Hubbard was a genius in this... he was a wordsmith of the highest caliber... he really figured out "the system" in a way... (just like Phillip K Dick was having premonitions of what the matrix was decade ahead of everyone else...) for that he is brilliant... and then he used it to create his own system... for his own gain... just calling it what it is.... no doubt the man is brilliant... the best cons usually are...

Oh, yeah, I don't doubt the "auditing" sessions has its "effects" giving a sense of progress and possible "achievable goals" such as "Clear" or OT Level X,Y,Z etc ... BUT IMHE unless the underlying sense of "self", the "I" or the "Ego" is addressed then I cannot see how it is anything except for an "Ego Trip" with the allure of "Super Powers " ...

Just saying :wink:

Listen to the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures (1952) or Read the books published in the mid 50's to know how the "self", the "I" or the "Ego" (the spiritual being) is addressed and explained.

Oh, thank you but perhaps I have found what I was looking for though in an indirect manner :)

From : "Volume I of the Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology (http://www.tep-online.info/laku/usa/reli/scien/SECRETDOX/1950_53.PDF)" (1950 - 1953)


The Analytical Mind

By this time, many a dianetic preclear is becoming convinced that most of his life he has been running strictly on engrams. By no means; the analytical mind is very definitely in there pitching And these are the ways of its workings:

In studying the present text and releases of Dianetics one is liable to the error of believing that Dianetics concerns itself mainly with the reactive mind, that collection of “unconsciousnesses” which bedevil and plague mankind.

The mind, however, is important only to the degree that it can observe, pose, resolve and execute problems. In that the reactive mind is no more capable of actually resolving a problem of magnitude than a prefrontal lobotomy is capable of restoring sanity, it can be seen that the analytical mind is the truly important entity.

Dianetic processing relieves the human being of all mental aberration and psychosomatic illness. This accomplishment was made possible by the discovery of the actual identity of the “unconscious” mind and the development of techniques to unburden it. But Dianetics also includes in its sweep the other minds of the human being, the analytical and the somatic. Actually the analytical mind is so important to the intelligent being and the somatic mind so important to the athlete that dianetic processing can be said to consist of deintensifying the reactive mind so that the analytical and somatic minds can be free to function properly.

Once one has been “cleared” by dianetic processes— which is to say, once his aberrations and psychosomatic illnesses are vanquished — he operates exclusively on his analytical mind and somatic mind. Therefore a study and knowledge of these is vital if one is to achieve maximal efficiency after he has attained optimum potential. Further, the matter is of intense importance to the dianetic preclear because he is prone, wandering through the idiocies of his reactive mind during sessions of therapy, to believe that he has had only his reactive mind in operation all his life—there is so very much contained in it.

Because IMHO / IMHE the sense of self / 'I' / ego is itself merely a Projection of the Unconscious / Subconscious ... thus LRH's concept of getting "Clear" makes no sense as it seems he has it all backwards ...

Disclaimer : As I am not a Scientologist nor do I have any in-depth understanding of his material I may have come to an incorrect conclusion based upon what I have read so far !

[boutreality]

cuitlahuac,

That was a quote from a song, not a question.
Have fun preaching to your choir, and choir, have fun pretending debate and genuine exchange which is all this thread is (except for my and a couple of other member's responses.)

[cuitlahuac]

I think Hubbard was a genius in this... he was a wordsmith of the highest caliber... he really figured out "the system" in a way... (just like Phillip K Dick was having premonitions of what the matrix was decade ahead of everyone else...) for that he is brilliant... and then he used it to create his own system... for his own gain... just calling it what it is.... no doubt the man is brilliant... the best cons usually are...

Oh, yeah, I don't doubt the "auditing" sessions has its "effects" giving a sense of progress and possible "achievable goals" such as "Clear" or OT Level X,Y,Z etc ... BUT IMHE unless the underlying sense of "self", the "I" or the "Ego" is addressed then I cannot see how it is anything except for an "Ego Trip" with the allure of "Super Powers " ...

Just saying :wink:

Listen to the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures (1952) or Read the books published in the mid 50's to know how the "self", the "I" or the "Ego" (the spiritual being) is addressed and explained.

Oh, thank you but perhaps I have found what I was looking for though in an indirect manner :)

From : "Volume I of the Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology (http://www.tep-online.info/laku/usa/reli/scien/SECRETDOX/1950_53.PDF)" (1950 - 1953)


The Analytical Mind

By this time, many a dianetic preclear is becoming convinced that most of his life he has been running strictly on engrams. By no means; the analytical mind is very definitely in there pitching And these are the ways of its workings:

In studying the present text and releases of Dianetics one is liable to the error of believing that Dianetics concerns itself mainly with the reactive mind, that collection of “unconsciousnesses” which bedevil and plague mankind.

The mind, however, is important only to the degree that it can observe, pose, resolve and execute problems. In that the reactive mind is no more capable of actually resolving a problem of magnitude than a prefrontal lobotomy is capable of restoring sanity, it can be seen that the analytical mind is the truly important entity.

Dianetic processing relieves the human being of all mental aberration and psychosomatic illness. This accomplishment was made possible by the discovery of the actual identity of the “unconscious” mind and the development of techniques to unburden it. But Dianetics also includes in its sweep the other minds of the human being, the analytical and the somatic. Actually the analytical mind is so important to the intelligent being and the somatic mind so important to the athlete that dianetic processing can be said to consist of deintensifying the reactive mind so that the analytical and somatic minds can be free to function properly.

Once one has been “cleared” by dianetic processes— which is to say, once his aberrations and psychosomatic illnesses are vanquished — he operates exclusively on his analytical mind and somatic mind. Therefore a study and knowledge of these is vital if one is to achieve maximal efficiency after he has attained optimum potential. Further, the matter is of intense importance to the dianetic preclear because he is prone, wandering through the idiocies of his reactive mind during sessions of therapy, to believe that he has had only his reactive mind in operation all his life—there is so very much contained in it.

Because IMHO / IMHE the sense of self / 'I' / ego is itself merely a Projection of the Unconscious / Subconscious ... thus LRH's concept of getting "Clear" makes no sense as it seems he has it all backwards ...

Disclaimer : As I am not a Scientologist nor do I have any in-depth understanding of his material I may have come to an incorrect conclusion based upon what I have read so far !

Thanks for your reply Clear Blue Skies.

Hubbard described the I in the early days of Dianetics as the "Basic Personality". The I is described as such in the book 1: Dianetics, the Moder Science of Mental Healt. In further developments Hubbard describes the I as the "Awareness of Awareness Unit", like in Dianetics 55. And finally the I is described as the "Thetan", the spirit itself. In further discoveries Hubbard describes in detail more phenomena affecting the I or thetan, like in the book: A History of Man.

This line of research and discoveries go forward up to the advanced levels, reaching in what is called OT VIII or Operating Thetan section 8 a very high level for the I.

Hope this serves as a guide. Hubbard could identify the "I", thetan, as separate from the body and mind and he put that in the research. It's this line of research that meet and dovetails with the discoveries from quantum physics, and also, the discoveries of quantum physics meet and dovetails with the powers of the spirit. That synthesis was foreseen and started in the work of Isaac Newton.

The "Allure of super powers" is implicit in the work of Newton. All creation is the result of God, the spirit, a being, consciousness. In this regard, the absolute being, the absolute "I" or absolute "thetan" is the creator of all that exists, and as such he has super powers.

In Scientology, besides God, there is the thetan who is possessed of the same potentialities, and as such, of the same super powers.

In the realm of quantum physics, if consciousness is behind every aspect of reality and the universe (as Max Plank stated), then that consciousness has for necessity, super powers.

Why then a trained Scientology thetan is not able to bend spoons and win the million dollar price offered in the Amazing Randy challenge? The answer to that question is also in the research, including the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. This has to do with universes. In ones own universe, one is "God". In this universe, we share things with other "Gods" or thetans, this universe is a group thing. That's my way of explaining it. My advice is that you better see for yourself in the research.

Here is an excerpt from the PDC as regards the thetan super powers and universes:


Now his immediate and foremost desire, of course, centered on the home universe. And the home universe might have merged over into this one. So his active desire was directed toward the home universe, and then became crossed over into this universe. And many people have never discovered that there was any transition. They still think this is their universe.

They… every once in a while they’ll gun around and they’ll talk about everybody being their puppets and everybody looks like… they haven’t discovered yet that it’s a group action. They… they think they made everybody here. And that’s just uh… an inability to differentiate between universes.


PDC-44 SOP: ASSESSMENT (CONTINUED)
PHILADELPHIA DOCTORATE COURSE 13.12.52

In his own universe, a thetan can bend spoons and win the Amazing Randy million dollars price. In this universe, that thetan intentions collide with Amazing Randy's intention that he will not be able to bend spoons and win the price. Not to mention that in this universe there's an agreement that spirits can not bend spoons.

[cuitlahuac]

cuitlahuac,

That was a quote from a song, not a question.
Have fun preaching to your choir, and choir, have fun pretending debate and genuine exchange which is all this thread is (except for my and a couple of other member's responses.)

Thanks for the clarification.

[Clear Light]

Thanks for your reply Clear Blue Skies.

Hubbard described the I in the early days of Dianetics as the "Basic Personality". The I is described as such in the book 1: Dianetics, the Moder Science of Mental Healt. In further developments Hubbard describes the I as the "Awareness of Awareness Unit", like in Dianetics 55. And finally the I is described as the "Thetan", the spirit itself. In further discoveries Hubbard describes in detail more phenomena affecting the I or thetan, like in the book: A History of Man.

This line of research and discoveries go forward up to the advanced levels, reaching in what is called OT VIII or Operating Thetan section 8 a very high level for the I.

Hope this serves as a guide. Hubbard could identify the "I", thetan, as separate from the body and mind and he put that in the research. It's this line of research that meet and dovetails with the discoveries from quantum physics, and also, the discoveries of quantum physics meet and dovetails with the powers of the spirit. That synthesis was foreseen and started in the work of Isaac Newton.



Oh, most interesting, thanks very much Cuitlahuac !

From : Dianetics 55 (http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/1955%20DIANETICS%2055.pdf)


When we have arrived at a state where John Jones himself knows that he is an awareness of awareness unit and not his analytical mind, his reactive mind, his body, his clothes, his house, his car, his wife or his grandparents, we have what is called in Dianetics, a "Clear". A Clear is simply an awareness of awareness unit which knows it is an awareness of awareness unit, can create energy at will, and can handle and control, erase or re-create an analytical mind or reactive mind

I must admit to not expecting to hear (read) of any references to such language as "Awareness of awareness" in LRH's material ...

[Clear Light]

Bettye
You are right in stating that "Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag." That phenomenon was multiplied by hundreds in 1982 onwards. Hubbard was not seen since 1981, the shadow USA government took over in 1982. I got in in sept 1977 and saw it. The scientologists are outside of US controlled church of Scientology.

Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?

[Bill Ryan]

Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?

Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition :) ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)

[cuitlahuac]

Bettye
You are right in stating that "Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag." That phenomenon was multiplied by hundreds in 1982 onwards. Hubbard was not seen since 1981, the shadow USA government took over in 1982. I got in in sept 1977 and saw it. The scientologists are outside of US controlled church of Scientology.

Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?



Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?

Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition :) ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)

Thanks Bill. Now that this subject is in the public domain (since the second part of the 80's I think) there are several approaches to take. For those who have no inclination for research and believe that Scientology is "science fiction", the best approach is to let them be happy with the idea that all this is "science fiction". That saves lots of arguing.

For those that want to learn and research or increase their "general knowledge" on this topic, the best approach is to learn first that this subject was kept confidential (among other things) because it can be dangerous (at least in the early days), and there are instances of that being true. Second, you can review the "peer reviews" of this subject made by El Kin in his book: "The Pied Pipers of Heaven" and The Pilot (Ken Ogger) in his work "Super scio" available in the internet.

[sigma6]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12507106_10201295202418014_8557153641217716734_n.jpg?oh=47f2127f4049f94a98e36ce18ad9700a&oe=570BCDDB

[Clear Light]

Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?

Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition :) ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)

Hmmm ... Now, AFAIK, whether or not LRH was speaking Metaphorically, is still up for debate, for example : Why Do Scientologists Accept the Xenu Story? (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/why-do-scientologists-accept-the-xenu-story-6704251)


Some ex-church members I met did admit that they had negative reactions to the Xenu story, but by the time they learned it they had already spent so much of their lives invested in Scientology, they really had no personal will to walk away -- at least at that point


The reason Scientologists accept Hubbard's bizarre story about Xenu is that by the time they reach OT 3, they have been "remembering" their own outlandish space opera "whole track" stories during auditing, perhaps for several years

Wow, I mean talk about one complete "Mind Fcük" eh ? LOL :der:

[cuitlahuac]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12507106_10201295202418014_8557153641217716734_n.jpg?oh=47f2127f4049f94a98e36ce18ad9700a&oe=570BCDDB

This is the bibliography Hubbard gives in the book Science of Survival. Of course a researcher on mankind should include the works of Aleister Crowley, because as Hubbard states, Crowley summarized and resurrected the knowledge of Middle East wisdom, including hebrew traditions. A real researcher can not but include the works of "very good friend" Crowley.

Sigma6, you forgot to mention that Hubbard's involvement with Crowley was an intell operation to counter the spread of Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. That mission was accomplished.

Ronald Hubbard's bibliography for the researcher on Scientology:

Fifty thousand years of thinking men, (that includes The Veda and don't forget the Oriental traditions summarized by "very good friend" Aleister Crowley).

In particular:
Anaxagoras, Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Euclid, Lucretious, Robert Bacon, Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, van Leeuwenhoek, Voltaire, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Rene Descartes, James Clerk Maxwell, Charcot, Herbert Spencer, William James, Sigmund Freud, Cmdr Thompson (MC) USN, Whilliam A. White, Will Durant, Count Alfred Korzybski, Athomic and Molecular Phenomena curricula and Humanities curricula at George Washington University and Princeton in the 1930's.


http://michaelkonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2005/04/Too-Many-Books-300x220.jpg

http://www.crystalinks.com/crowleypyrhat.jpg

[Clear Light]

From : Dianetics 55 (http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/1955%20DIANETICS%2055.pdf)


When we have arrived at a state where John Jones himself knows that he is an awareness of awareness unit and not his analytical mind, his reactive mind, his body, his clothes, his house, his car, his wife or his grandparents, we have what is called in Dianetics, a "Clear". A Clear is simply an awareness of awareness unit which knows it is an awareness of awareness unit, can create energy at will, and can handle and control, erase or re-create an analytical mind or reactive mind

I must admit to not expecting to hear (read) of any references to such language as "Awareness of awareness" in LRH's material ...

Oh, perhaps I should elaborate as to the "WHY" of the above statement :

It is because one who is "Aware of awareness" is effectively in the non-Dual "state" (as non-dual Consciousness) which in "Spiritual Parlance" is like "hitting the jackpot" so-to-speak !

[Bill Ryan]

.
Here's a most excellent BBC Radio 4 documentary on Hubbard's life, aired in 1987. Highly recommended for an admirably balanced and detailed view. There are rare interviews with some people no longer with us who knew him well, and he is presented very favorably.

Ruthless Adventure: The Lives of L Ron Hubbard (39 mins, 14 Mb)
http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Adventure_the_lives_of_L_Ron_Hubbard.mp3

[Limor Wolf]

From a higher perspective information always entered Earth and individuals, but was detected, corrupted and was made controversial in the one thousand and one 'wonderful ways' available to that. A thick layer added to a pure enough liquid - becomes turbid, and it's not an objective task to filter and re-discover the healthy share

[cuitlahuac]

Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?

Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition :) ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)

Hmmm ... Now, AFAIK, whether or not LRH was speaking Metaphorically, is still up for debate, for example : Why Do Scientologists Accept the Xenu Story? (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/why-do-scientologists-accept-the-xenu-story-6704251)


Some ex-church members I met did admit that they had negative reactions to the Xenu story, but by the time they learned it they had already spent so much of their lives invested in Scientology, they really had no personal will to walk away -- at least at that point


The reason Scientologists accept Hubbard's bizarre story about Xenu is that by the time they reach OT 3, they have been "remembering" their own outlandish space opera "whole track" stories during auditing, perhaps for several years

Wow, I mean talk about one complete "Mind Fcük" eh ? LOL :der:

Warning, OT III discussed ahead.

There's in my opinion 2 ways to go ahead with this subject, now that it is out in the internet. One is to let some people be happy believing this is science fiction. The other is to verify the research, and some of those tools are the memory retrieval techniques used by Hubbard. These basic techniques used are even recognized as valid by some governments. Another field of research is Geology. terms like Kretaceous-Tertiary boundary, time of the extinction of the dinosaurs, Iridium layer, continental drift, Hawaii hot spot, Las Palmas geological history, radio-isotope dating, and the latest statement by university geologists that the extinction of the dinosaurs were due most probably by increased volcanic activity instead of a comet crash.

The first way, "this is conspiracy theory" saves a lot of discussion and research.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516kVSvCosL._SX218_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_.jpg

[cuitlahuac]

.
Here's a most excellent BBC Radio 4 documentary on Hubbard's life, aired in 1987. Highly recommended for an admirably balanced and detailed view. There are rare interviews with some people no longer with us who knew him well, and he is presented very favorably.

Ruthless Adventure: The Lives of L Ron Hubbard (39 mins, 14 Mb)
http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Adventure_the_lives_of_L_Ron_Hubbard.mp3

Thanks, at 20:20 min we can see the kind of scientific experiments Hubbard did on his hypothesis of the mind.

At 25:25 we learn about a mystic dream he had. This is similar to the mystic dreams scientists like Newton (with the apple) had before embarking on their scientific endeavors.

[Clear Light]

.
Here's a most excellent BBC Radio 4 documentary on Hubbard's life, aired in 1987. Highly recommended for an admirably balanced and detailed view. There are rare interviews with some people no longer with us who knew him well, and he is presented very favorably.

Ruthless Adventure: The Lives of L Ron Hubbard (39 mins, 14 Mb)
http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Adventure_the_lives_of_L_Ron_Hubbard.mp3

Ah, many thanks for that Bill :)

Now, from about 24:26 into the recording :


... he [LRH] began to tell me a tale so fascinating ... how during the war he had an operation and while he was lying on the operating table he died ... and he said he found himself in [out of body] Spirit form ... and off in the distance he saw a fascinating wall with a very ornate gate from China or Tibet ... and wow there spread out before him was an intellectual smorgasbord the likes of which the mind of man had never beheld, here was the answer to the "big bang", what God was up to ... was there life on other planets, was there reincarnation ... and like a sponge he was absorbing all of this fantastic information ...

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

[Bill Ryan]

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.

[Clear Light]

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.

Oh, so perhaps you could kindly say a little bit about it please ?

You see, my "question mark" over such "processes" is not that there doesn't seem to be some sort of "result" (effect), but that the "entity" to which it all seems to be happening TO is itself like a made-up "fiction" ...

i.e the "Separate Self" which I once blindly assumed was "real" ?

[Bill Ryan]

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.

Oh, so perhaps you could kindly say a little bit about it please ?

You see, my "question mark" over such "processes" is not that there doesn't seem to be some sort of "result" (effect), but that the "entity" to which it all seems to be happening TO is itself like a made-up "fiction" ...

i.e the "Separate Self" which we all blindly assume is "real" ?


Yes, it works. :) Independently of metaphysical opinion, it's a methodical, detailed, 'engineering' approach that most definitely resolves and erases upsets, losses, internal conflicts, emotional pain and trauma, and opens up the details of as many past lives as one wants to look at.

Do see this more comprehensive thread — there's a great deal of material there, and quite a lot of interesting discussion:
Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org)

[Hym]

Brother, Brother...Bill.
I kept one of my biological sisters away from the Church of Scientology in the early 80's by having a private discussion with one of them, one with more than a little influence. They stayed away. I knew by then that anything worthwhile in COS was gone, masked by some nasty control mechanism. What a piece of work that sister was/is either way. When I look back I wonder about the type of cruel insanity she mimicked from her mother and if it would have been healed somehow by another more organized sociopathy. However, as fleeting a thought that I had was, I knew that you did't heal a deep pathological liar with another depth controlled by another darkness.

I've kept out of the discussion until now because I was waiting for your words:

"But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'."

I appreciate you stepping forward with the warning and including those things that still may be worthwhile. I'll skim the links you left. This is the reason I've always been as straightforward as possible about anything worthwhile and as direct about manipulations that may injure others.

[Wide-Eyed]

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.

Oh, so perhaps you could kindly say a little bit about it please ?

You see, my "question mark" over such "processes" is not that there doesn't seem to be some sort of "result" (effect), but that the "entity" to which it all seems to be happening TO is itself like a made-up "fiction" ...

i.e the "Separate Self" which I once blindly assumed was "real" ?

Ok apologies up front. I have a question Re: LRH and it is probably OFF TOPIC. How if at all does his work relate to say THE MONROE INSTITUTE and it's work along with writing and works of late Robert Monroe? Journeys out of Body and Robert Monroe's different levels of consciousness with help of his patented bi-aural beat Hemi-Sync technologies? I am a bit like the lazy researcher Cuitaluac describes regarding COS and LRH. I vaguely remember reading Bill's work with PCamelot and Dane Tops, I think was his name, and it was very interesting information on COS. Beyond the tabloid info usually presented on COS and it's celebrity members. My company had done work out at their Gilman Springs, Ca. golf course and centre in the late 90's but from this thread and that little research does early LRH work have any correlation to Robert Monroe and The Monroe Institute's "You are more than you physical body" ? Thanks :focus:

[Clear Light]

Yes, it works. :) Independently of metaphysical opinion, it's a methodical, detailed, 'engineering' approach that most definitely resolves and erases upsets, losses, internal conflicts, emotional pain and trauma, and opens up the details of as many past lives as one wants to look at.

Do see this more comprehensive thread — there's a great deal of material there, and quite a lot of interesting discussion:
Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org)

Ah, Perfect, thank you :yo:

[Clear Light]

Ok apologies up front. I have a question Re: LRH and it is probably OFF TOPIC. How if at all does his work relate to say THE MONROE INSTITUTE and it's work along with writing and works of late Robert Monroe? Journeys out of Body and Robert Monroe's different levels of consciousness with help of his patented bi-aural beat Hemi-Sync technologies? I am a bit like the lazy researcher Cuitaluac describes regarding COS and LRH. I vaguely remember reading Bill's work with PCamelot and Dane Tops, I think was his name and it was very interesting and I got information on COS beyond the I guess tabloid info usually presented and my company had done work out at their Gilman Springs, Ca. golf course and centre in the late 90's but from this thread and that little research does early LRH work have any correlation to Robert Monroe and The Monroe Institute's "You are more than you physical body" ?

Um, perhaps someone else could chime in here as I can't answer it ...

[cuitlahuac]

Ok apologies up front. I have a question Re: LRH and it is probably OFF TOPIC. How if at all does his work relate to say THE MONROE INSTITUTE and it's work along with writing and works of late Robert Monroe? Journeys out of Body and Robert Monroe's different levels of consciousness with help of his patented bi-aural beat Hemi-Sync technologies? I am a bit like the lazy researcher Cuitaluac describes regarding COS and LRH. I vaguely remember reading Bill's work with PCamelot and Dane Tops, I think was his name, and it was very interesting information on COS. Beyond the tabloid info usually presented on COS and it's celebrity members. My company had done work out at their Gilman Springs, Ca. golf course and centre in the late 90's but from this thread and that little research does early LRH work have any correlation to Robert Monroe and The Monroe Institute's "You are more than you physical body" ? Thanks :focus:

This has to do with the Government of the USA stealing or taking over advanced level Scientology phenomena of time track scanning (remote viewing):

Involved are Ingo Swan, NSA Hall Puthoff, the Stanford Research Institute and the CIA remote viewing program to investigate Scientology "time track scanning" (remote viewing), and latter USA intell personnel becoming Monroe Institute main "researchers" (Skip Atwater and General Albert Stubblebine).


1967

* Ingo Swann begins to take Scientology services. At about the same time, Swann tenders his two-year notice for resignation from his permanent contract with the United Nations Secretariat in New York.[44]
* NSA's Hal Puthoff enrolls in Scientology services. [NOTE: Puthoff will somehow get past or around the Hubbard injunction against members of a "Suppressive Group" being allowed access to the upper levels of Scientology, and by 1971 Puthoff will have attained the highest level, OT VII. See January 1971.]

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientologen.de/rvtimeline/images/puthoff-swann-scn.jpg

Harold "Hal" Puthoff from NSA and Ingo Swann from the UN enroll in Scientology, supposedly unknown to each other. Within five years they will be at the highest levels of Scientology and under secret contract with CIA to develop remote viewing for military intelligence.


Thursday, 30 March 1972

* The day after E. Howard Hunt's "official" disconnection from the White House, OT VII Ingo Swann contacts OT VII Hal Puthoff saying Cleve Backster has "suggested" for Swann to contact Puthoff. Swann has several phone conversations over several days with Puthoff, who suggests that Swann come out to Stanford Research Institute (SRI) for a couple of weeks to do some experiments.[44]

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientologen.de/rvtimeline/index.html



Skip Atwater – From 1978 to 1988, Skip Atwater was the Operations and Training Officer for U.S. Army Intel remote viewing surveillance program. He worked closely with the SRI RV program and trained intelligence personnel to remote view. After retiring in 1988, became Research Director at The Monroe Institute – he has published technical research on methods for expanding consciousness.

General Albert Stubblebine: Former head of U.S. Army Intelligence & Security Command (INSCOM) 1981 – 1984. Signed classified contracts with the Monroe Institute. Former box with Col. John Alexander, and the two have held numerous “spoon-bending” parties. Married to ufologist Rima Laibow. Soon after becoming head of INSCOM, Stubblebine began a program called the “High Performance Task Force”, a series of methods to improve his officer’s performance. These ranged from the neruo-linquistic programming of Tony Robbins to the hemisynch tapes of the Monroe Institute, where Stubblebine often sent his officers. Following an incident involving an officer having a psychotic episode at the Monroe Institute, Stubblebine resigned in 1984.

http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/2014/02/witchcraft-people-leave-their-bodies-through-astral-projection-sign-a-ticket-with-the-devil-himself-2465006.html


Yes, we are spiritual beings, different than the physical body. That is the concept of thetan in Scientology.

[cuitlahuac]

I would say the Monroe Institute is overtly taken by the US intell agencies, while Church of Scientology is covertly infiltrated by the same.

[Wide-Eyed]

I would say the Monroe Institute is overtly taken by the US intell agencies, while Church of Scientology is covertly infiltrated by the same.

outstanding research information thank you Cuitlahuac

[cuitlahuac]

The subject of Time Track Scanning, known as Remote Viewing in the intell circles, is key in the takeover of the Church of Scientology by the CIA-USA government in 1982:

Below is more information on this:

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientologen.de/veritas/images/cstandcia2.gif

The guest was "remote viewer" and former (?) CIA officer Major Ed Dames, founder of PSI Tech--a for-profit company specializing in "remote viewing." [Editor's note: We put that (?) in there because, as one wag once put it, "the only 'former' spook is a dead spook." Being neither former spooks nor dead, we wouldn't know.]

...

On the night in question, things didn't go quite as they usually do with Major Ed Dames. There was a wrinkle in the fabric of space and time, a wrinkle that, apparently, he hadn't "remote viewed" as looming in his own future.

...

ART BELL: Ed, are you there?

ED DAMES: I'm here.

ART BELL: All right, here's a pretty rough fax, and let's
see how you handle it, all right?

ED DAMES: Okay.

ART BELL: (reading): "Art, Ed Dames knows damn well that
Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann and Pat Price--all key players in the
remote viewing program--were Scientologists, and that the
military intelligence community were dogging L. Ron Hubbard
for decades. Remote viewing came from Hubbard's discoveries
and Dames KNOWS IT"--underlined. "Why did he lie or
'play dumb' when you mentioned Hubbard? For instance, the
term 'anchor points' is ONLY a Hubbard discovery"--"only"
underlined. Any comment?

ED DAMES: Bunk. All bunk.

ART BELL: All bunk?

ED DAMES: Yep. Every single bit of that is bunk.

...

HELLO, CIA. WELCOME TO PLANET VERITAS.

Whatta' warp! Welcome to what Canadian writer Kady O'Malley has dubbed "Planet Veritas," where the strangest things find a way of coming together, like some alien, sci-fi Wonderland.

...

"BUNK," MAJOR DAMES? DID YOU SAY, "BUNK?"

No, Major Ed, not bunk. Hal Puthoff was *INDEED* a key player in the CIA's Remote Viewing Program. In fact, Major (and Art--are *you* tuned in?), Hal Puthoff was the HEAD of that program--at Stanford Research Institute (SRI)--from 1972 to 1985. [Editor's note: 1972 is the year in which L. Ron Hubbard mysteriously disappeard for ten months, accompanied only by a former Green Beret and a male nurse--a developing story soon to appear here in the pages of Veritas.]

And, yes, Major Ed, Hal Puthoff was *INDEED* a Scientologist when he entered the CIA-spawned Remote-Viewing Program. In fact, Puthoff had only recently completed Scientology's super-secret "Operating Thetan, Level III" (OT III), placing him in the rarified inner circles of Scientology's "Advanced Technology" knowledge.

But there's more: prior to entering Scientology in the late '60's and working his way up through the ranks to access Scientology's secret levels, Puthoff had been with the National Security Administration (NSA). [Editor's note: Like Major Ed, it looks like we have another "former spook" here, but this one going almost directly from Scientology's secret levels straight into CIA's Remote Viewing Program--which bears an uncanny resemblance to parts of Scientology itself!]

...

So, no, Major Ed: THAT part of the fax that Art Bell read certainly wasn't "bunk." And you said, "Every single bit of that is bunk." Oops. Well, then, how about the rest of it?

Let's take Ingo Swann.

Ingo Swann was a pioneer in the CIA's Remote Viewing Project WITH Hal Puthoff. In fact, they are the team who were in at its outset. And, surprise, surprise: Swann was a Scientology OT VII--which, at the time, was the highest secret level attainable in Scientology!

...

But, Ed, here's what REALLY surprised us. Look what we found in YOUR OWN press release, entitled "Ed Dames Sets the Record Straight."

"Ingo Swann, under the direction of Dr. Harold Puthoff at SRI, realized a breakthrough, i.e., he developed an accurate model of how the collective unconscious communicates (target) information to conscious awareness. Swann believed that the ability to remote view, like language, is an innate faculty--a birthright--but must be learned to be effective. Swann's model provided a rigid set of instructions which theoretically allowed anyone to actually be trained to produce accurate, detailed target data. To test the model, the Army sent Major Dames and five others to Swann as a prototype trainee group.

"The results were more than anyone, even Swann, had anticipated. In six months, Major Dames' (sic) team members were producing psychically derived data with more consistency and accuracy than the most renown natural (untrained) psychics alive."

...

Two strikes, Major Ed. So what about Pat Price?

It's quite curious that Pat Price, who has been described as being "widely considered to be the best of the remote viewers," was a Scientology OT IV, and was very instrumental in the early success of the CIA's Remote Viewing Project. An unconfirmed report says that Price went on from there to work directly for the CIA, with one Ken Kress as his handler. Then when Price decided to return to SRI, he stopped over in Las Vegas, and died of a purported heart attack in his hotel room. There was no autopsy peformed, allegedly due to the persuasion of an unknown individual with a briefcase full of Price's medical records.

...

But you don't know anything about any of this, do you, Major Ed? No, you said-- Let's see, what were your words? Oh, yes--"bunk," you called it. Is that correct? Yes, that's what you said: "Bunk."

The only slight problem is that Veritas has inarguably, uncontestably, and verifiably confirmed that Puthoff, Swann, and Price all WERE key players in the CIA's Remote Viewing Program, and that they all WERE high-level Scientologists when they entered that program at its inception.

Two of those Scientologists--Puthoff and Swann--had intelligence backgrounds BEFORE they penetrated Scientology's super-secret "OT Levels," then turned right around and set up the Remote Viewing Program for CIA. Probably just coincidence, right Major Ed?

Just to tie the bundle up with a neat ribbon (and 14 Scientology "Clears"), here's a quote from "The Constantine Report":

"Many of the SRI [Stanford Research Institute--where the early remote viewing program was originally set up] 'empaths' were mustered from L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology. Harold Puthoff, the Institute's senior researcher, is a leading Scientologist. Two 'remote viewers' from SRI have also held rank in the Church: Ingo Swann, a Class VII Operating Thetan, a founder of the Scientology [Celebrity] Center in Los Angeles, and the late Pat Price. Puthoff['s]...lab assistant was a Scientologist married to a minister of the church. When Swann joined SRI, he stated openly that fourteen 'Clears' participated in the experiments."

Unfortunately, Major Ed, that's strike three. You ought to be outta here. But we haven't even GOTTEN to the "anchor points" part yet!

...


The full program is nearly five hours long. Here are some approximate time markers for relevant sections:

Art Bell asks about L. Ron Hubbard: 03:43:25
Dames mentions "anchor points": 03:50:09
Art Bell reads the fax to Ed Dames: 04:07:00

http://sc-i-r-s-ology.freiescientologen.de/veritas/cst/cst-cia.htm

[cuitlahuac]

The "looking at the future" is not as accurate as Major Dames claims it is. And this is explained in Scientology because the considerations of beings (persons) can change the time track not only in the future and the present, but also in the past.

The Time Track Scanning and out of body remote viewing also is not something "inherently satanic" as christians describe. One example is that in The Bible, there are numerous examples of how God took a person out of body to "remote view" future events.

Best way to learn about this is to read the original researcher, L. Ronald Hubbard.

[cuitlahuac]

This is the original Time Track Scanning (remote viewing) technology:

And one of the trick ways of getting a preclear [person undergoing Scientology processing] out of his head, is not even to ask him to step out of his head. There’s another method. You just… oh, there’s dozens of methods. But uh… all… all you tell him to do is, all right. And by the way! You can do this right now. Just shut your eyes and take a look at the room. Now take a room when… look at that when it was built, the day it was built.

Now scan it on through to the day it will be dust… It’s very interesting, isn’t it? Now just reach back and find present time in this room, that’s all. Find its anchor points [assigned or agreed-upon points of boundary conceived to be motionless] right at this instant. Just look around for the anchor points at this instant. You see? Now some of you could see that. And actually, if you’ll just ask the preclear – he may be blind as six bats – and you just ask him to close his eyes and take a look out from his head at the room. And at first he can’t see very much and the next thing he can’t see very much – and the next… and all of a sudden he sees a little bit better and he begins to pick up this room. And he says, „Aww, that’s darned peculiar. I am! I’m looking out through my head – where’s my head?“ You’ve selected his depth of perception and you’ve scattered him up and down in time. What’ll he do? He’ll find present time if he does this, and you can’t get him out if he’s in past time or otherwise, because this space occupancy with its points is a present time.

So, you can scan him up. And sometimes you’ll find a preclear isn’t in his head in present time. I mean, he’s standing way back there. And all of a sudden you’ve located present time and BONG! He’s looking at the room from outside, and he’s looking at it with perfectly clear perception. And he’s looking at his body and there he is! And he’s been so much in the future or the past or scattered up in time that he hasn’t been able to orient himself or orient the body or gets… of course, that’s all a question of anchor points. He hasn’t been able to select enough anchor points to find out what he was. He walked in the door and he thought he was sitting in the chair. And… and he isn’t sitting in that chair at all; he’s sitting there halfway from there to the door, because he thinks the anchor points are some other way. His space is all messed up. You scan him through from the first moment the room was built; this room – not the number of the times he was in it. But you have him take a look at the WHOLE track of this room right straight into the future.

Now the odd part of it is, you get variations from preclear to preclear on this. Why? Because things could vary the pattern of this room. It isn’t that some great designer has come along and designed it all in advance, which you are then permitted to perceive. You’ve looked at this room and you’ve looked at the general level of agreement of what is the history of this room. And that’s all this room is. You think you’ve looked at anything peculiar? Look to the general level of agreement of what is the history of this room, and you’ve got that, and you’ve buttoned that all up, and you’ve said, „That’s fine. That’s fine.“

PDC-30 FLOWS: RATE OF CHANGE, REALTIVE SIZE, ANCHOR POINTS
PHILADELPHIA DOCTORATE COURSE 10.12.52

[Safari]

Your local library should also have tons of info on Scientology.

[Magnus]

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.

In -98 or -99, when the internet was still young, I remember filling out some application to the church of scientology, and to be honest I did not know much about anything back then, I just felt that I couldn't get through that invisible veil of mists covering the truth, whatever I thought that was at the time, I was ready to try almost anything to get anywhere. Some time later, a week or a month later, the church had in some unexplainable way succeeded to find my Swedish home phone number, was that a surprise, guess twice. I acted in chock and thereafter let the phone stay unplugged (I still knew that which was commonly known about the church), while doing that, I expected them to show up on the front porch of the house I rented then, but they never did. Scary people, efficient beyond expectation. Thinking about that incident now, makes me wonder what could have been the most dangerous thing those people could have brought upon me during that time, as they are "extremely dangerous", which I fully believe.

[cuitlahuac]

So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.

In -98 or -99, when the internet was still young, I remember filling out some application to the church of scientology, and to be honest I did not know much about anything back then, I just felt that I couldn't get through that invisible veil of mists covering the truth, whatever I thought that was at the time, I was ready to try almost anything to get anywhere. Some time later, a week or a month later, the church had in some unexplainable way succeeded to find my Swedish home phone number, was that a surprise, guess twice. I acted in chock and thereafter let the phone stay unplugged (I still knew that which was commonly known about the church), while doing that, I fully expected them to show up on the front porch of the house I rented then, but they never did. Scary people, efficient beyond expectation. Thinking about that incident now, makes me wonder what could have been the most dangerous thing those people could have brought upon me during that time, as they are "extremely dangerous", which I fully believe.

They do brainwashing (implanting), death (as explained by Bill in the case of Ken Ogger's "Suicide"), or turn you into a boot leaking minion, as described in the case of Mark Yager. He has been kicked, run over by a car on orders of David Miscavige and threatened with loosing "the way out" if he doesn't follow Chairman Miscavige's commands. Same method as applied by the Catholic Church in the middle ages.

[cuitlahuac]

Scientology and Dianetics are sciences. Any person studying it can verify its theories doing simple experiments. The "Pinch Test" experiment is a simple one. You use an E-meter (electronic instrument to measure mental states and changes in mental states), then you ask a person to take the cans (electrodes) and tell him/her that you are going to give a slight pinch in his arm. You do the pinch and the person can see the e-meter needle react. Then you ask the person to remember the pinch and the needle repeats the reaction.

This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously.

In the demonstration below, you can see the pinch test and in this case, the person reacts to the pinch even before the pinch is given to her.

WATCH: Liz Hayes takes the Scientology E-Meter test! See her results.

rDyNoativPA

[Clear Light]

This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously

Hmmm ... it may seem like that but isn't it simply responding to the passage of electricity through the human body ?


k9NBZC7sLLo

[Clear Light]

Apparently : The e-meter Hubbard introduced into Scientology in 1952 was designed and patented by Los Angeles chiropractor and electrical inventor Volney Mathison. This device was manufactured by Arcon Mfg, of Los Angeles.

Mathison developed auditing techniques, used the meter in his chiropractic practice, and sold his device and books to other chiropractors.

Hubbard obtained global rights from Mathison to market and sell the Mathison e-meter. Mathison excluded L.A. and NYC from the rights, but this was never enforced as Mathison was an enthusiastic early Scientologist.

The e-meter allowed Hubbard to morph Dianetics into Scientology.

Hubbard acknowledged Mathison's invention and early auditing techniques.


32612
32611

[Hervé]

This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously

Hmmm ... it may seem like that but isn't it simply responding to the passage of electricity through the human body ?

[...]

See these posts for a little more on the E-Meter:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=678067&viewfull=1#post678067

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70238-The-Plants-Respond-An-Interview-With-Cleve-Backster&p=819435&viewfull=1#post819435

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?71453-Life--Or-What-s-A-Yoghourt-s-Got-To-Do-With-Nature-Nurture.&p=834380&viewfull=1#post834380

In other words, a "thought" generates a change in electrical conductivity/resistance in a live organism...

[Clear Light]

See these posts for a little more on the E-Meter:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org&p=678067&viewfull=1#post678067

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?70238-The-Plants-Respond-An-Interview-With-Cleve-Backster&p=819435&viewfull=1#post819435

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?71453-Life--Or-What-s-A-Yoghourt-s-Got-To-Do-With-Nature-Nurture.&p=834380&viewfull=1#post834380

In other words, a "thought" generates a change in electrical conductivity/resistance in a live organism...

oh, thanks, I suppose then, at the end of the day (so-to-speak), you either take it "on trust" (as a "religious artefact") or you don't eh ? Because AFAIK such an assertion has not been proven (peer reviewed) Scientifically though I could be wrong :)

[Hervé]

[...]
... at the end of the day (so-to-speak), you either take it on trust (as a "religious artefact") or you don't eh ?

The "religious artefact" came about so as to get the FDA/AMA/APA off their back... as something that doesn't diagnose or cure... see? ... so as to not suffer a fate similar to that of a certain Wilhelm Reich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich#1947.E2.80.931957:_Legal_problems)...

PS: Do read the articles I gave links for.

[Clear Light]

[...]
... at the end of the day (so-to-speak), you either take it on trust (as a "religious artefact") or you don't eh ?

The "religious artefact" came about so as to get the FDA/AMA/APA off their back... as something that doesn't diagnose or cure... see? ... so as to not suffer a fate similar to that of a certain Wilhelm Reich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich#1947.E2.80.931957:_Legal_problems)...

PS: Do read the articles I gave links for.

Oh ok, so having read those links you kindly provided Hervé, here's the question :


How does showing plants respond to "perceived" threats to their well-being, give credence to the "idea" that the e-Meter is detecting "thoughts" ?

[Hervé]

[...]


How does showing plants respond to "perceived" threats to their well-being, give credence to the "idea" that the e-Meter is detecting "thoughts" ?

How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?

[Clear Light]

How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?

Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?

[Bill Ryan]

.
The E-meter works remarkably sensitively, and all it does (but it does it extremely well!) is indicate the presence of various kinds of, and the behavior of, emotional charge. Like fears, anger, denials, conflicts, problems, protests, significant thoughts and positive emotions of various kinds, and a whole lot else besides.

It operates very slightly below the level of conscious awareness. That means that it helps people to see what's really going on... dowsers use pendulums to access the same kinds of information sometimes.

It's basically a kind of very sophisticated biofeedback device. Hubbard was quite correct when he maintained that "on its own, it does nothing". That's exactly right.

The current passed through the body is incredibly tiny: my own meter is now on its 2nd (second!!) set of AA batteries in 22 years, having probably been used for well over 1,000 hours. That says quite something.

I have no idea how come it can use up so little current (almost zero, literally) but my pure personal guess is that the current measured is principally from the body's own electrical field, and that the batteries really just operate the tiny movement of the dial, amplifying the minuscule, but significant, body currents it detects.

Mine is an Ability Meter 3a, which many people assert is the best (I can't really tell: I've never used any other, but I can believe the claim). But like the car you drive, it's kind of a personal preference.

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/E-Meter/ability3.jpg

Some these days (http://www.theta-meter.com) are being made by the Russians (Free Zone / Ron's Org scientology is stronger in Russia than anywhere else), and they run on a computer screen with a virtual dial. I suspect they're extremely good... the Russian scientologists, and I've met some of them, are pretty smart people.

http://theta-meter-rus.nethouse.ru/static/img/0000/0004/7537/47537383.4p9cqhsdbw.W665.JPG

I love the idea of traveling with a USB flash drive — instead of something one grows tired of explaining to the TSA is not some kind of bomb. :)

[Hervé]

How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?

Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?

What registers that a plant has perceived a thought/emotion? It's still an organism that modified its electrical conductivity/resistance in response to a thought generated either remotely or in situ.

[Bill Ryan]

How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?

Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?

What registers that a plant has perceived a thought/emotion? It's still an organism that modified its electrical conductivity/resistance in response to a thought generated either remotely or in situ.


Yep. Again (see my post above), it's just an indicator, like a sophisticated electronic version of a pendulum. With practice, one doesn't even need the meter, though it does help.

(Rather like if one's got very good eyesight, one might not need binoculars to clearly make out something at a distance. But with the binoculars, one can still zoom in if one wants to or needs to.)

Regarding plants, see the work of Cleve Backster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleve_Backster), formerly a CIA interrogation specialist (this is not a joke). Great NY Times article here, called

He talked to plants. And they talked back.

http://nytimes.com/news/the-lives-they-lived/2013/12/21/cleve-backster

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2013/12/29/magazine/29backster/29backster-square640.jpg

[Hervé]

[...]

Regarding plants, see...
[...]

See my post # 95 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88056-Scientology-Science-for-a-Golden-Age&p=1040009&viewfull=1#post1040009) with the included links :)

[Clear Light]

How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?

Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?

What registers that a plant has perceived a thought/emotion? It's still an organism that modified its electrical conductivity/resistance in response to a thought generated either remotely or in situ.

Hmmm ... my line of questioning began in response to :



This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously

Hmmm ... it may seem like that but isn't it simply responding to the passage of electricity through the human body ?

And to my mind it's still an unproven conclusion that the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

[RunningDeer]

Some these days (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/www.theta-meter.com) are being made by the Russians (Free Zone / Ron's Org scientology is stronger in Russia than anywhere else), and they run on a computer screen with a virtual dial. I suspect they're extremely good... the Russian scientologists, and I've met some of them, are pretty smart people.
404 File Not Found - The document you requested at http://projectavalon.net/forum4/www.theta-meter.com could not be found.

Is this the site (http://theta-meter.com)?
Theta-Meter - E-Meter for beginners and for professionals - http://theta-meter.com

Feel free to delete once link is repaired. :wave:






From Bill: Thanks! Yes, that's the site.
(Note to self: always test links before posting :) )

[Hervé]

[...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

Right!

I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88056-Scientology-Science-for-a-Golden-Age&p=1040048&viewfull=1#post1040048). At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.

[Bill Ryan]

[...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

Right!

I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88056-Scientology-Science-for-a-Golden-Age&p=1040048&viewfull=1#post1040048). At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.

Yes. I'm not an expert (by any means!), but it's pretty clever stuff. I know how to use a meter, but NOT how to make one. :)

I'd say that the human body-mind as a whole is a complex, highly tuned, sophisticated, near-miraculous, bio-electric 'machine' (as well as much else besides). (All animals and plants are, as well, no matter how simple or small.)

That means that thoughts and emotions can be detected. Not READ — not at all — but their PRESENCE can be detected.

Again, this is doing nothing more than a highly sensitive person often does, all on their own, when sitting listening carefully to someone who's upset or has a problem. Parents do this with their children! There's nothing really unusual, here.

They can often 'sense' what's really going on — like if someone's holding back on something, or they're suppressing anger, fear or tears, or they're struggling with a big problem they feel they just can't talk about... all good therapists and counselors use those natural abilities to assist themselves in supporting others. This is just the same kind of thing.

[Sean]

What are the ways to learn about scientology? Theres the main church but how expensive does it get? and what are the free ways to learn everything?

—> Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59276-Q-and-A-about-Ron-Hubbard-Bill-Robertson-Scientology-the-Free-Zone-and-Ron-s-Org)

Do NOT NOT NOT go anywhere near the Church of Scientology, or any of their own (altered-from-original) materials.

I could not agree more. Scientology is a dangerous cult. They hurt(sometimes kill) people. Everything they espouse is regurgitated from other, better sources. **** Scientology.

[cuitlahuac]

Hmmm ... my line of questioning began in response to :



This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously

Hmmm ... it may seem like that but isn't it simply responding to the passage of electricity through the human body ?

And to my mind it's still an unproven conclusion that the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

Of course Clear Blue Skies. My statement is "wrong". The needle is not reacting exactly to a thought, it is reacting to a change of bodily electric current (change in resistance). The needle is being affected by a change in resistance (electric current), but that change in resistance is caused by a thought. The body reacts electrochemically to a thought.

Plants do the same. They react electrochemically to a thought as demonstrated in the links above.

There's a book called, The book of The E-meter and it has a "working hypothesis" and it is that a mental image picture affects the resistance of the body.

In the video of the pinch test, the "mental image picture" of a pinch affected the resistance of the person holding the cans. In the video, first the person had a change in resistance before the pinch, when she thought of it. Then a change in resistance when she was pinched, and finally, when she remembered the pinch.

Male dead bodies have a set resistance. Female dead bodies have another fixed resistance. Living bodies change resistance according to the mental image pictures affecting them.

That is the theory. If there are other theories, they must explain the phenomena better than The Book of the E-meter and better than the experiments with plants.

This is kind of a resume of The Book of the E-meter:


In order to understand how the E-Meter works, it is necessary to understand some basic Scientology concepts.

There are three basic parts of Man—mind, body and thetan. The thetan is an immortal spiritual being—the individual himself. The thetan inhabits a body and has a mind, which is a collection of mental image pictures.

The pictures in the mind contain energy and mass. The energy and force in pictures of painful or upsetting experiences can have a harmful effect upon an individual. This harmful energy or force is called charge.

When the E-Meter is operating and a person holds the meter’s electrodes, a very tiny flow of electrical energy (about 1.5 volts—less than a flashlight battery) passes down the wires of the E-Meter leads, through the person’s body and back into the E-Meter. (The electrical flow is so small, there is no physical sensation when holding the electrodes.)

When the person thinks a thought, looks at a picture in their mind, re-experiences an incident or shifts some part of the reactive mind, they are moving and changing actual mental mass and energy. These changes in the mind influence the tiny flow of electrical energy generated by the E-Meter, causing the needle on its dial to move. The needle reactions on the E-Meter tell the auditor where the charge lies, and that it should be addressed through auditing.

[cuitlahuac]

Physical scientists have so far failed to explain the expansion of the universe, have so far failed to unify gravity with electromagnetism, but by studying awareness and life as source of the universe, the answers to these questions have been predicted and found.

[cuitlahuac]

Sciences that have produced the most results are those using the inductive method. 19th century "sciences" like psychology use the reverse. They produce enormous amounts of data to create a hypothesis and then try to prove their hypothesis instead of predicting more data.

Simple Definition of inductive: using particular examples to reach a general conclusion about something.
- Meriam Webster dictionary.

Quote:
Well, this method of thinking... is scientific thinking "Let'go and gather a whole bunch of data... and let's look at a lot of phenomena. And after we've gotten everything we can find on the subject, then let's go find a theory for it. And let's just take any old theory that happens to come along and see if it explains some of this data. If it does, we're all set."

As a consequence, science won't advance around here but just keeps sort of wandering off, and it gets off here and there and gets all confused about it. And it has been doing so, so that you get cytology arguing with biology, arguing with evolutionists. And these theories are all different. These theories were not arrived at inductively, and these theories do not predict new phenomena.

Scientology is an effort to go around the clock clockwise - to take data and then look for material, look for the phenomena predicted by that data and see if it exists in the physical universe.

Well, it's an interesting field, Scientology, because all it's trying to do is pick up all the loose ends... It's trying to get a unification of science, combine it with a unification of anything - the humanities, religion or even mathematics, aesthetics. It's trying to bring these things all into the same field so that they can all be used.

It'll predict, you can take Scientology and you can predict what should be the whole field of biology and where it should mesh with cytology and where that should mesh with evolution. And you will come out with a package of data and phenomena which, if you presented them to the cytologist, to the biologist and to the evolutionist, you would find a point of agreement. They would agree on the data which you had there.
End Quote:

TIME TRACK OF THETA HISTORY OF MAN SERIES 1: ORGANIZATION OF DATA
Lecture 19A of the Hubbard College Lectures (HCL-19A) of 10 MAR 52.

http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/index.php?dir=Tapes+in+order%2F6308c06+Time+Track+of+Theta%2F

[Wide-Eyed]

[...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

Right!

I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88056-Scientology-Science-for-a-Golden-Age&p=1040048&viewfull=1#post1040048). At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.

Yes. I'm not an expert (by any means!), but it's pretty clever stuff. I know how to use a meter, but NOT how to make one. :)

I'd say that the human body-mind as a whole is a complex, highly tuned, sophisticated, near-miraculous, bio-electric 'machine' (as well as much else besides). (All animals and plants are, as well, no matter how simple or small.)

That means that thoughts and emotions can be detected. Not READ — not at all — but their PRESENCE can be detected.

Again, this is doing nothing more than a highly sensitive person often does, all on their own, when sitting listening carefully to someone who's upset or has a problem. Parents do this with their children! There's nothing really unusual, here.

They can often 'sense' what's really going on — like if someone's holding back on something, or they're suppressing anger, fear or tears, or they're struggling with a big problem they feel they just can't talk about... all good therapists and counselors use those natural abilities to assist themselves in supporting others. This is just the same kind of thing.

I am certainly not an expert and jumping in here after reading and going through this thread weeks ago, but somewhat of an experiencer with Neoro Linguistic Programming or NLP-and it (NLP) in my experience works. Might the e-meter work /perform in a similar fashion ?

[Wide-Eyed]

[...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

Right!

I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88056-Scientology-Science-for-a-Golden-Age&p=1040048&viewfull=1#post1040048). At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.

Yes. I'm not an expert (by any means!), but it's pretty clever stuff. I know how to use a meter, but NOT how to make one. :)

I'd say that the human body-mind as a whole is a complex, highly tuned, sophisticated, near-miraculous, bio-electric 'machine' (as well as much else besides). (All animals and plants are, as well, no matter how simple or small.)

That means that thoughts and emotions can be detected. Not READ — not at all — but their PRESENCE can be detected.

Again, this is doing nothing more than a highly sensitive person often does, all on their own, when sitting listening carefully to someone who's upset or has a problem. Parents do this with their children! There's nothing really unusual, here.

They can often 'sense' what's really going on — like if someone's holding back on something, or they're suppressing anger, fear or tears, or they're struggling with a big problem they feel they just can't talk about... all good therapists and counselors use those natural abilities to assist themselves in supporting others. This is just the same kind of thing.

I am certainly not an expert and jumping in here after reading and going through this thread weeks ago, but somewhat of an experiencer with Neoro Linguistic Programming or NLP-and it (NLP) in my experience works. Might the e-meter work /perform in a similar fashion ?

Ah umm ...We'll take that as a no Bob...? :confused:

[cuitlahuac]

I don't know enough of the operation of NLP.

[cuitlahuac]

Einstein in his theory of relativity made a prediction in the early 20th century that there exist gravitational waves. It was until 2016 that those waves were detected. So, we don't need scholars, University Doctors or peer review publications to validate Einstein's theory of relativity.

Similarly, Scientology makes a theory, makes predictions and gets validated when those predictions are found. No need for Doctors, university scholars or peer review publications agreeing or not on it.

[cuitlahuac]

The most developed physical science, Quantum Mechanics, indicated that consciousness is the underlying principle behind all physical phenomena. That means consciousness should be studied by science. That's what L. Ronald Hubbard did with Scientology.

This also should bring not only a simplification of physics, but also a unification not only in the field of physics but also in subjects dealing with consciousness, like religion, social sciences and mysticism.

[cuitlahuac]

In the case of Dianetics, many people reading Book 1 would get the idea that going back into memories, one would arrive at the possibility of recovering the memories of past lives if they exist or recovering the time of the dinosaurs if one recovers the genetic memories of the human protoplasm line. This makes one do the prediction of past lives or of genetic memories of millions of years ago. And when one apply the technology to recover the memories, one finds they are there, either past lives or genetic memories.

That is one example of Dianetics being a science that created a theory that makes it possible for you to make a prediction and then finding out that that predicted phenomena exists, and so that verifies the theory and Dianetics. No need to wait decades to get funding to perform an experiment for verification, and again, no need for university scholars 'agreeing', no need for university doktas giving their 'expert' opinions and no need for scholarly approved and expensive peer review studies. No need for statistical analysis p values to demonstrate the validity of the hypothesis.

[cuitlahuac]

Now, lets see more of the subject of consciousness being behind the phenomena in the physical universe.

Below a statement from member jiminii:


I will try to clear up some confusion here
a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

any questions?

jim

Definitions:

THETAN, 1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. 2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. 9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical
universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you.

STATIC, 1. a static is something without mass, without wavelength, without time, and actually without position. That’s a static and that is the definition of zero. 6 . the simplest thing there is is a static, but a static is not nothingness. These are not synonyms. We speak of it carelessly as a nothingness. That’s because we say nothingness in relationship to the space and objects of the material universe. Life has a quality. It has an ability. When we say nothingness we simply mean it has no quantity. There is no quantitative factor.

[cuitlahuac]

Now let's see how Scientology provides the theory for the explanation jiminii gives below.

Note: The 'consciousness' spoken off by Max Planck has been scientifically explained by L. Ron Hubbard with Scientology. jiminii is going further on what is going on today as regards the source of life, the source of universes or the source of the consciousness.


a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to a place to view from ...

just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline


Definitions:

Axiom 1 Life is basically a static.

DEFINITION: A life static has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or in time. It has the ability to postulate and to perceive.

Axiom 2 The static is capable of considerations, postulates and opinions.

Axiom 3 Space, energy, objects, form and time are the result of considerations made and/or agreed upon by the static and are perceived solely because the static considers that it can perceive them.


The Factors

Summation of the considerations and examinations of the human spirit and the material universe completed between A.D. 1923 and 1953.

1 Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of effect.

2 In the beginning and forever is the decision and the decision is TO BE.

3 The first action of beingness is to assume a viewpoint.

4 The second action of beingness is to extend from the viewpoint, points to view, which are dimension points.

5 Thus there is space created, for the definition of space is: viewpoint of dimension. And the purpose of a dimension point is space and a point of view.

[cuitlahuac]

The axioms of Scientology are (by definition) auto evident truths. They prove themselves by all of life. In contrast, the axioms of physics prove themselves by the phenomena of the material universe, while the axioms of geometry prove themselves by itself:


Comparing the Axioms of Scientology with axioms in another subject, these are certainly as self-evident as those of, for instance, geometry, which is actually a relatively crude subject in that it proves itself by itself, which is a limitation that Scientology does not have. The Axioms of Scientology prove themselves by all of life.

Exerpted from the book Phoenix Lectures
CHAPTER THIRTEEN, AXIOM

[OBwan]

The following videos discusses the E-meter internal workings by the use of an “E-Meter Autopsy”. The meter implements a Wheatstone bridge. A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. The primary benefit of a wheatstone bridge is its ability to provide extremely accurate measurements.

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How the device is used as Hypnotic Mind Control is explained in the following videos. How Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is used is described,

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[cuitlahuac]

The following videos discusses the E-meter internal workings by the use of an “E-Meter Autopsy”. The meter implements a Wheatstone bridge. A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. The primary benefit of a wheatstone bridge is its ability to provide extremely accurate measurements.

OBwan, the only scientific statement here is the fact that the E-meter is a wheatstone bridge, and it means it is an instrument to measure with accuracy extremely small variations in resistance.


How the device is used as Hypnotic Mind Control is explained in the following videos. How Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is used is described,


The problem with this videos is the fact that it lacks any basic scientific or common sense fundamental. If you are going to use the words hypnosis, NLP and such, you need to define them, otherwise it is only a joke.

[Ultima Thule]

Cuitlahuac, how has the practice of scientology helped you in your life and in your development?
Do you ascribe to the story of dc3-like spaceships and the whole volcano-episode? (This is not meant as a provocation, but as a question as to how do you feel you personally have benefitted from the practice as you feel it to be very valuable for all. Also I am interested in how you incorporate this scifi-stuff to your daily scientology practice? Or do you perhaps separate/dismiss the mythology of scientology from the technique of it?)

[cuitlahuac]

Cuitlahuac, how has the practice of scientology helped you in your life and in your development?
Do you ascribe to the story of dc3-like spaceships and the whole volcano-episode? (This is not meant as a provocation, but as a question as to how do you feel you personally have benefitted from the practice as you feel it to be very valuable for all. Also I am interested in how you incorporate this scifi-stuff to your daily scientology practice? Or do you perhaps separate/dismiss the mythology of scientology from the technique of it?)

How has it helped me? Since this has to do with consciousness and spirit being the source of all physical phenomena in this universe, it has helped me to see the part I'm playing in the creation of this reality and be responsible for that part.

I'm not imposing that Scientology must be very valuable for all. All I'm doing is presenting it as the science for the 21 century, the continuation of scientific discoveries in quantum physics and physics in general and indicating how universities stagnated and are not teaching real science beyond the 19th century paradigms or models.

dc3-like spaceships and volcano-episodes? If that was found with the memory retrieval techniques, then they could be verified with other non scientology memory retrieval techniques too. Also geology an volcanology should have a say on that.

How do I incorporate this Scifi-stuff to my daily practice? I wold rather say that scifi-stuff has been being incorporated to the daily practice of the average homo sapiens for the last centuries. From scifi-stuff of Verne's trips to the moon to scifi-stuff of Star Trek like the video-telephones (I-phones), to the 90's Hollywood Super Soldier stories.

How did you incorporated the scifi-stuff of trips to the moon and mars to your daily life? How are you incorporating the scifi-stuff of video watches (I phone watches) of Star Trek to your daily life?

Mythology? According to Merriam Webster, Mythology are beliefs that are not true. But don't confuse mythology with an incapacity to see beyond one's nose. Scientology discovered through memory retrieval techniques that the universe is trillions of years old. But homo sapiens scientists said that that discovery could not be true because of the Big Bang which is just some billions of years ago.

Then more scientists have been discovering recently that there are parts of the universe much older than the Big Bang. You see... a universe trillions of years old is not mythology. And now, probably the Big Bang idea is the real mythology.

How are you going to incorporate the age of the universe to your daily life? (Of course, this is not meant as a provocation).

[Ultima Thule]

Cuitlahuac, how has the practice of scientology helped you in your life and in your development?
Do you ascribe to the story of dc3-like spaceships and the whole volcano-episode? (This is not meant as a provocation, but as a question as to how do you feel you personally have benefitted from the practice as you feel it to be very valuable for all. Also I am interested in how you incorporate this scifi-stuff to your daily scientology practice? Or do you perhaps separate/dismiss the mythology of scientology from the technique of it?)

How has it helped me? Since this has to do with consciousness and spirit being the source of all physical phenomena in this universe, it has helped me to see the part I'm playing in the creation of this reality and be responsible for that part.

I'm not imposing that Scientology must be very valuable for all. All I'm doing is presenting it as the science for the 21 century, the continuation of scientific discoveries in quantum physics and physics in general and indicating how universities stagnated and are not teaching real science beyond the 19th century paradigms or models.

dc3-like spaceships and volcano-episodes? If that was found with the memory retrieval techniques, then they could be verified with other non scientology memory retrieval techniques too. Also geology an volcanology should have a say on that.


I am sorry, my recollection was wrong, had to check it out(which I should have done before even starting to write, sorry about that) - I was referring to the scientology mythology(I am using that word as I do see it as such) of Incident II, ie. of Xenu and the space ships looking like DC-8, carrying humans to be stacked inside several volcanoes and hydrogen bombs being exploded and them getting killed 75 million years ago. How do you see that whole business? Do you see those events as objective, real history and not mythology?

UT

[cuitlahuac]

I am sorry, my recollection was wrong, had to check it out(which I should have done before even starting to write, sorry about that) - I was referring to the scientology mythology(I am using that word as I do see it as such) of Incident II, ie. of Xenu and the space ships looking like DC-8, carrying humans to be stacked inside several volcanoes and hydrogen bombs being exploded and them getting killed 75 million years ago. How do you see that whole business? Do you see those events as objective, real history and not mythology?

UT

Thanks for the clarification. The Xenu incident was recovered through Scientology non hypnotic memory retrieval techniques. Now, if you want to label that as mythology, you are free to do as you will. But the correct method to verify that would be to see if other persons can recollect the same incident, and see if other people can recollect them with non Scientology memory retrieval techniques. Also, one would have to verify the geological record to find evidence on that.

Another interesting fact of this Xenu incident is that people believing that it is mythology can go on on believing it is so. That saves a lot of undue explanations and argument. My 'educated guess' is that it is a good thing you believe it is mythology.

[Ultima Thule]

Have other people to your knowledge recollected the Xenu-incident independently, without prior knowledge of it? Have you tried?

I apologize for being somewhat blunt. I do appreciate that you propably did not mean for this thread to discuss scientology on this aspect - on my defence I would say that for me the Xenu-incident is pure fantasy and undermines most(if not all) basis for taking the science of scientology seriously.

Take for example the amount of glycol-alcohol-freezed people in the amount of 13,5 trillion - it amounts (in conservative estimation a person taking up 0,3m by 1,5m by 0,2m space) to 1 1215 000 000 000 cubic meters of volume, which would be roughly a cube sized 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters. Piling-vise I would say an impressive task. Space-craft-vise too - little over 77 billion individual transport flights (175 seats in one craft - if the persons were frozen in seated positions).

I don´t mean to sound disrespectful, but the claims made in Scientology are exact, which I think means they are meant as such and may be examined as such. I think I´ll take my leave - I genuinely do not mean to disrupt your thread.


UT

[cuitlahuac]

Have other people to your knowledge recollected the Xenu-incident independently, without prior knowledge of it? Have you tried?

The Xenu incident is about an implant, a mind control operation. Psychoanalyst Carl Joung discovered parts of this implant:

Quote:
In the 1920s, the psychoanalyst C. G. Jung, a pupil of Freud, discovered that primeval symbols can be found in the minds of all men on Earth and postulated that there was a “collective unconscious”. He considered these “archetypes” to be benevolent as they dealt with such elevated images as gods and angels - yet little did he know that he had found but the implant pictures held in place and perpetuated by the Screen. That Jung failed to interpret the phenomenon correctly does of course not diminish his merits in having discovered it for the west. (Jung was actually quite familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead.)
- The Pied Pipers of Heaven. L Kin.
End Quote:


I apologize for being somewhat blunt. I do appreciate that you propably did not mean for this thread to discuss scientology on this aspect - on my defence I would say that for me the Xenu-incident is pure fantasy and undermines most(if not all) basis for taking the science of scientology seriously.

It would be like saying the microbial theory of disease is fantasy because nobody can see these microbes when the theory was created. It would be like saying the Quantum Theory of physics should not be made known because it postulates or predicts the existence of parallel worlds, (the Many Worlds Theory) and it would undermine its basis of taking it seriously. It would be like saying the theory of Relativity of Einstein is fantasy because it implies time travel and a curvature of space-time. Both unheard off concepts at the time.


Take for example the amount of glycol-alcohol-freezed people in the amount of 13,5 trillion - it amounts (in conservative estimation a person taking up 0,3m by 1,5m by 0,2m space) to 1 1215 000 000 000 cubic meters of volume, which would be roughly a cube sized 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters. Piling-vise I would say an impressive task. Space-craft-vise too - little over 77 billion individual transport flights (175 seats in one craft - if the persons were frozen in seated positions).

I don't know if the 13.5 trillion is correct but lets take the 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters figure. If we distribute it on some 20 volcanoes, it would be a 5 hundred meters cube for every volcano.


I don´t mean to sound disrespectful, but the claims made in Scientology are exact, which I think means they are meant as such and may be examined as such. I think I´ll take my leave - I genuinely do not mean to disrupt your thread.


UT

The thread is only disrupted by people claiming something can not be true just because they don't have the mental framework to evaluate the data.

[Ultima Thule]

Have other people to your knowledge recollected the Xenu-incident independently, without prior knowledge of it? Have you tried?

The Xenu incident is about an implant, a mind control operation. Psychoanalyst Carl Joung discovered parts of this implant:

Quote:
In the 1920s, the psychoanalyst C. G. Jung, a pupil of Freud, discovered that primeval symbols can be found in the minds of all men on Earth and postulated that there was a “collective unconscious”. He considered these “archetypes” to be benevolent as they dealt with such elevated images as gods and angels - yet little did he know that he had found but the implant pictures held in place and perpetuated by the Screen. That Jung failed to interpret the phenomenon correctly does of course not diminish his merits in having discovered it for the west. (Jung was actually quite familiar with the Tibetan Book of the Dead.)
- The Pied Pipers of Heaven. L Kin.
End Quote:


I apologize for being somewhat blunt. I do appreciate that you propably did not mean for this thread to discuss scientology on this aspect - on my defence I would say that for me the Xenu-incident is pure fantasy and undermines most(if not all) basis for taking the science of scientology seriously.

It would be like saying the microbial theory of disease is fantasy because nobody can see these microbes when the theory was created. It would be like saying the Quantum Theory of physics should not be made known because it postulates or predicts the existence of parallel worlds, (the Many Worlds Theory) and it would undermine its basis of taking it seriously. It would be like saying the theory of Relativity of Einstein is fantasy because it implies time travel and a curvature of space-time. Both unheard off concepts at the time.


Take for example the amount of glycol-alcohol-freezed people in the amount of 13,5 trillion - it amounts (in conservative estimation a person taking up 0,3m by 1,5m by 0,2m space) to 1 1215 000 000 000 cubic meters of volume, which would be roughly a cube sized 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters. Piling-vise I would say an impressive task. Space-craft-vise too - little over 77 billion individual transport flights (175 seats in one craft - if the persons were frozen in seated positions).

I don't know if the 13.5 trillion is correct but lets take the 10 000 x 10 000 x 10 000 meters figure. If we distribute it on some 20 volcanoes, it would be a 5 hundred meters cube for every volcano.


I don´t mean to sound disrespectful, but the claims made in Scientology are exact, which I think means they are meant as such and may be examined as such. I think I´ll take my leave - I genuinely do not mean to disrupt your thread.


UT

The thread is only disrupted by people claiming something can not be true just because they don't have the mental framework to evaluate the data.

This is rather silly, but I'll just add that divided into 500x500x500 meter cubes, the said volume consists of 8000 of them - not 20.

UT

[cuitlahuac]

Comparing the Axioms of Scientology with axioms in another subject, these are certainly as self-evident as those of, for instance, geometry, which is actually a relatively crude subject in that it proves itself by itself, which is a limitation that Scientology does not have. The Axioms of Scientology prove themselves by all of life.

- L. Ronald Hubbard
AXIOMS - (Part 1)
A lecture given on 20 August 1954



http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/index.php?dir=Tapes+in+order%2F5408C20+Axioms+1%2C2%2C3%2C4%2F

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[cuitlahuac]

AXIOM FOUR: SPACE IS A VIEWPOINT OF DIMENSION.

Do you know that physics has gone on since the time of Aristotle without knowing that! Yet we read in the Encyclopedia Britannica of many years ago (the Eleventh Edition, published in 1911) that space and time are not a problem of the physicist. They are the problem of one working in the field of the mind. And it says that when the field of psychology solves the existence of space and time why then physics will be able to do something with it. And all those fellows with their Ph.D.'s going back to the days of Wundt, they didn't read the Encyclopedia Britannica and find out that they held the responsibility for identifying space and time so that physics could get on its way.

And because they avoided this responsibility we have to pitch in here and discover and develop Scientology -- not to work in the field of physics, however, but to work in the field of the Humanities. But it so happened that I discovered very, very early while I was studying nuclear physics at George Washington University that physics did not have a definition for space, time and energy. It defined energy in terms of space and time. It defined space in terms of time and energy, and it defined time in terms of energy and space. It was going around in a circle. I first moved out of that circle by putting it into human behavior, but the point is here that without a definition for space, physics was and is adrift.

- L. Ronald Hubbard.
Exerpted from the book Phoenix Lectures
CHAPTER THIRTEEN

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12919639_1052620671464767_6392783261011523727_n.jpg?_nc_eui=ARgEoPLva4bNWOk8o7lFCrrW16gFl50A8ol8YS-le9wTTrfWlGyvQ6aZ34pa&oh=77c2e281cb3b35475474fbf15c170dc6&oe=5773F133

[cuitlahuac]

"This is not necessarily true, but is what works." This words stated by L. Ronald Hubbard as regards Scientology techniques, what do they mean? What do they mean in the sphere of science? What do they mean stated by a scientist?

This idea has also been stated by people like Albert Einstein in regards to his theory of relativity. That idea is implicit in subjects like physics or quantum mechanics. The way to explain certain phenomena can vary, but the phenomena being explained remains the same. An example in history is given below.

While traditional physics of Newton is built around the concept of forces, like gravitation, the physics of Einstein is built around the concept of geometry of space and time. Einstein's physics does not replace or make obsolete Newtonian physics, but Einstein's physics is able to describe phenomena that Newton's physics can't.

This does not mean that the phenomena described by Newton is false, or that Einstein is wrong just because they describe the same phenomena with a different concept or framework. Their different points of view does not affect the phenomena observed.

Let's put an example of phenomena in the field of history. The Second WW and 4 different viewpoints to describe it. Each one of them being "that what works".

From the viewpoint of many germans, Hitler was the man who saved the country from the judeo-masonic conspiracy and the communists. The man that brought prosperity to Germany. That's a valid viewpoint, it's "what works" to explain the event.

From the viewpoint of the USA, Hitler was a tyrant bent upon eradicating jews and other races and imposing tyranny on the rest of the world. It was the explanation that "worked" for the Allies.

Another explanation that "works" and has been documented, is that international bankers (Rothshchilds and Rockefellers) financed both sides, Germany and Russia, and made great profits from selling of weapons and forced labor in nazi concentration camps. Besides, forced the jews to create and move to Israel to create the next world war.

There's even another explanation that "works" and is also being "documented" with testimonials. In this explanation a trilateral extraterrestrial alliance including Gray and Reptilian ETs would empower Rothschild and Rockefeller bankers to finance Hitler and Stalin to kill and rape each other, profit from the arms sells while at the same time create a slave labor in the nazi concentration camps and then "harvest" human resources in the nazi death camps, the soviet gulags and the death camps set up by Eisenhower after the war. Finally manipulating London to create the State of Israel in Palestine to create the next world war.

Each one of these explanations, each with a different framework and each explaining more phenomena than the previous one, does not affect the facts and the phenomena observed, namely the Second World War.

That's the case in Hubbard's statement regarding Scientology techniques and events: "this information is not necessarily true but is what works to solve the cases". A difference in viewpoints and frameworks does not affect the facts of the phenomena being observed.

[cuitlahuac]

Ronald Hubbard stated in his taped lectures from the 50's that the theory of Evolution was in fact an implant (hypnotic commands put in the mind with the use of technology). Instead, life on Earth was the creation of consciousness (spiritual beings). He explained that the variety in life forms was the result of the spiritual beings having different preferences. There was no 'evolution' from caveman to homo sapiens. "There was a caveman society because one of these spiritual beings wanted it that way. He made them with huge jaws... barbaric taste but exotic".

You might say: "Nah, I aint believing anything Hubbard says cause he has no university diploma hanging in his wall". Well, no problem with that, because there was a guy with a university diploma from Cambridge hanging on his wall, and not only that, he also got a Nobel prize award hanging on his wall too. The thesis of this chap is that life on Earth is not the result of Darwin's theory of evolution but the result of intelligent design by consciousness (spiritual beings, in this case, ETs).

The name of this chap is Francis Crick, and he wrote a book called "Life Itself, its Origin and Nature". Crick is a scientist from Cambridge in the field of biochemistry. In his book he develops the theory that life on Earth is the result of extraterrestrial beings (consciousness) seeding the planet with life forms, from bacteria to plants to animals and human beings. Intelligent design called in this case directed pan-spermia.

This book was written in the early 80's. If you go to your local library most probably you can find it there.

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13077034_1076776492382518_7676560976895824137_n.jpg?oh=00e8041112ea332d419ea99677988269&oe=57AB2E8E

[justpeter]

I've just come across this thread and see user cuitlahuac is still spouting his scientology misinformation.

I was in scientology for about 15 years. I was highly trained in both tech and admin and have listened to all of the PDC lectures that cuitlahuac loves to quote.

I have also read the TRUE story of L. Ron Hubbard in books such as the excellent Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller.

Hubbard wasn't a nuclear physicist - he took one short course in physics and failed it! Most of the "information" he gave in his lectures were just pulled out of his imagination.

Hubbard would often talk about the special abilities you would get by going up the scientology Bridge yet he had NO special abilities himself. He couldn't even exteriorise from his body, which was something he dearly wished to achieve. He died a broken man raving about his "body thetans" that he couldn't get rid of. He also famously admitted that he had failed with scientology.

I could go on but suffice to say that there is a message board called Ex-Scientologist Message Board (ESMB) whose members are some of the most highly trained and experienced scientologists there has ever been and they are almost all totally against the subject of scientology. Cuitlahuac has occasionally turned up on that board to spout his nonsense and he is invariably laughed at and ridiculed until he goes away.

Cuitlahuac - read up on the truth about Hubbard instead of forwarding the lies he loved to tell.

[justpeter]

Jamie DeWolf is L. Ron Hubbard's great grandson. He is the grandson of L. Ron Hubbard Junior. He is an entertainer and not a scientologist.

This is a dramatic performance he did showing what his family think of L. Ron Hubbard and scientology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ

[Latti]

The father of Scientology leader David Miscavige told us why he left the church he calls a 'cult'

http://www.businessinsider.com/interview-with-ron-miscavige-father-of-scientology-leader-david-miscavige-2016-6

He provides some very insightful information about the organization that calls itself a "Church".

[jimrich]

but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.

I don't want to get into a bashing Scientology fest but.........
My late wife and I stopped by a Scientology place near us just to satisfy our curiosity and found our selves on the brink of an obvious CON! I won't write of all the strange and arm twisting stunts they pulled but it was very late at night and the director enthusiastically wanted us to sign up, lay down or $$$ and get into few classes that same night!
We watched some of the Zombie like members wandering around the place with "pasted on" smiles so we left and sat in our car laughing our heads off at the sales hustle & "antics" we just witnessed and NEVER went back.
I won't be surprised if Ron has published some very powerful stuff but I sure won't be going to their church.
I wonder if Ron would be proud of what Scientology has become, in his name?
For that matter, I wonder if Jesus is happy with what we did to his name?
Oh well.........to each his own. :dog:

[Clear Light]

but is where science and spirituality meet, the science of a Golden Age.

I don't want to get into a bashing Scientology fest but.........



34235

Oh, I think you'll find one or two serious 'practitioners' of Scientology here on Avalon BTW though they're very particular about what they consider is the Authentic version !!!

[Bill Ryan]

I think you'll find one or two serious 'practitioners' of Scientology here on Avalon BTW though they're very particular about what they consider is the Authentic version !!!

Yes. As best we know, there are no active members of the Church of Scientology here. If there were, they'd not be welcome.

[Ed Dawson]

"It takes basically a triangular energy to generate power. Two terminals, Positive and Negative, and a Ground. It’s good to work with three people until you can do it yourself." (from the Camelot interview)

This is exactly correct. Triangle technology appears to have its origin in magic track days. Subsequently in this universe, the triangles are partially hidden, but are visible if you are sufficiently aware. The triangle pattern is described by Kapila approximately 2700 years ago in what are known as the three gunas: sattva, rajas, tamas. The Positive is volition (an outflow), or Rajas. The Negative is awareness (an inflow), or Sattva. The Ground is the physical universe including the mind, or Tamas. I realize this switches the positive and the negative from their usual attributions, but those attributions are illusion.

Sat is the Sanskrit verb 'to be', here used as a noun, so Sattva is "a Being".

This triangle pattern is everywhere. Scientology spotted many of them, and gave us a good start on them. Many more triangles are mentioned in Scientology without being identified as triangles. For example, the Grade 4 process works a triangle without working the triangle's union. Triangles are always A+B+C=D. Grade 4 omits the D. Grade 4 also gives a limited name for one of the triangle legs. Domination is a negative form of ownership. The full triangle is: ownership + rightness + survival = winning.

The most astounding discovery I made is that the tone scale is itself a triangle. The plus tones are of awareness (Sattva). The minus tones are of volition (Rajas), and zero on the tone scale is the physical universe (Tamas). I've written a book containing much of this in the appendixes, plus I am currently writing a new book to address this area specifically.
cheers!

[Ed Dawson]

I haven't read the book on the left in the photo, cuitlahuac.
I have read the book on the right and can tell you that:
1. It is clear to my direct perception that Hubbard did not sit down and write it; staff compiled it.
2. The book has zero understanding of what the ethics levels actually ARE, in the same manner that Scientology doesn't understand what the CDEI scale IS.
3. Because Scientology failed to comprehend that the tone scale below zero was caused by a different attractor than the half above zero, and failed to perceive that lower attractor, then the subject was left unprotected from the forces of that lower attractor, which when they become conscious are evil in nature.

The attractor at the top is aware beingness. The attractor in the middle is the physical universe (zero is the tone of MEST). Both of these are known well in scientology. The bottom attractor is blind, soulless volition, which if given any beingness (awareness) is instantly evil in nature because it is the reverse of the aware beingness (which is basically good, as the old man said). They missed this one, and it ate them. Ron's eldest son Nibs, in a Penthouse interview, referred to something which he and his father called The Deep. They didn't invent the term; it is many, many decades old. That bottom attractor is the Deep. It is extraordinarily dangerous. Failure to spot it is part of what caused the destruction of the old church, and its takeover by bad men.

Ethics levels are the levels of volition on the tone scale, running from the top to zero, then the lower conditions from the bottom to zero.

The CDEI scale is the decay scale of any goal, such as an actual goal.





.
Recommended, for the real story:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

I've read the above interview and couldn't find any proof of Dane Tops statement:
...and it’s absolutely a different subject, almost not recognizable, and the things that had the most power are so watered down that they’re ineffective.One of the ways to water down a subject is to turn a 70 page ethics book into a Mammoth 500 page ethics book.

http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/images/lrh/_main/itse1998vs1968.jpg

In the case of taped lectures, the method is to delete things form them, like the statement of Hubbard that Scientology must not be the sole proprietor of mental knowledge or it would become a dictatorship, that part is deleted from current tapes, as I've been told.


There is only one thing that could happen to Scientology, and that is to say that it would be buried. The remedy would be buried. If it ever went out of sight, this world’s done. All you’ve got to do is invalidate it and put it out of sight and hide it, and it’ll come up in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, and mankind will find itself a slave.

So anybody that knows the remedy of this subject, anybody that knows these techniques, is himself actually under a certain responsibility – that’s to make sure that he doesn’t remain a sole proprietor. That’s all it takes, just don’t remain a sole proprietor. Don’t ever think that a monopoly of this subject is a safe thing to have. It’s not safe. It’s not safe for man; it’s not safe for this universe.
This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we’ve got some new ways to make slaves here. Let’s see that none are made.
- PDC-20 FORMATIVE STATE OF 5 6.12.52
SCIENTOLOGY: DEFINITION OF LOGIC
PDC 335

[TomKat]

I haven't read the book on the left in the photo, cuitlahuac.
I have read the book on the right and can tell you that:
1. It is clear to my direct perception that Hubbard did not sit down and write it; staff compiled it.
2. The book has zero understanding of what the ethics levels actually ARE, in the same manner that Scientology doesn't understand what the CDEI scale IS.
3. Because Scientology failed to comprehend that the tone scale below zero was caused by a different attractor than the half above zero, and failed to perceive that lower attractor, then the subject was left unprotected from the forces of that lower attractor, which when they become conscious are evil in nature.

The attractor at the top is aware beingness. The attractor in the middle is the physical universe (zero is the tone of MEST). Both of these are known well in scientology. The bottom attractor is blind, soulless volition, which if given any beingness (awareness) is instantly evil in nature because it is the reverse of the aware beingness (which is basically good, as the old man said). They missed this one, and it ate them. Ron's eldest son Nibs, in a Penthouse interview, referred to something which he and his father called The Deep. They didn't invent the term; it is many, many decades old. That bottom attractor is the Deep. It is extraordinarily dangerous. Failure to spot it is part of what caused the destruction of the old church, and its takeover by bad men.

Ethics levels are the levels of volition on the tone scale, running from the top to zero, then the lower conditions from the bottom to zero.

The CDEI scale is the decay scale of any goal, such as an actual goal.





.
Recommended, for the real story:

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

I've read the above interview and couldn't find any proof of Dane Tops statement:
...and it’s absolutely a different subject, almost not recognizable, and the things that had the most power are so watered down that they’re ineffective.One of the ways to water down a subject is to turn a 70 page ethics book into a Mammoth 500 page ethics book.

http://www.wiseoldgoat.com/images/lrh/_main/itse1998vs1968.jpg

In the case of taped lectures, the method is to delete things form them, like the statement of Hubbard that Scientology must not be the sole proprietor of mental knowledge or it would become a dictatorship, that part is deleted from current tapes, as I've been told.


There is only one thing that could happen to Scientology, and that is to say that it would be buried. The remedy would be buried. If it ever went out of sight, this world’s done. All you’ve got to do is invalidate it and put it out of sight and hide it, and it’ll come up in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, and mankind will find itself a slave.

So anybody that knows the remedy of this subject, anybody that knows these techniques, is himself actually under a certain responsibility – that’s to make sure that he doesn’t remain a sole proprietor. That’s all it takes, just don’t remain a sole proprietor. Don’t ever think that a monopoly of this subject is a safe thing to have. It’s not safe. It’s not safe for man; it’s not safe for this universe.
This universe has long been looking for new ways to make slaves. Well, we’ve got some new ways to make slaves here. Let’s see that none are made.
- PDC-20 FORMATIVE STATE OF 5 6.12.52
SCIENTOLOGY: DEFINITION OF LOGIC
PDC 335

Interesting take on the Tone Scale. I've always puzzled over the Minus scale. I rarely see it in action, except for Controlling Bodies, which is common in authority figures such as cops, security guards, teachers, government workers... I sometimes wonder if these "non-people" become people again when they go home?

I can't say I understand your take on the Expanded Tone Scale as regards a triangle. It sounds as if you've made the triangle the controlling element in your view of the universe?

[ExomatrixTV]

Scientology is a Cult?

KNtYEBYTFGM

[onawah]

Upcoming show from Dark Journalist on Scientology which he said he may call "Hubbard in the Hot Zone".
Mentioned starting at 3 hours, 35 minutes into his latest show at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqt4R5JSg7o

[Kryztian]

One of the most popular ads on Youtube is for a scam that might be funneling money into the Church of Scientology.

If you listen to music videos on Youtube, you have probably seen this guy promoting his online piano lessons:

https://i.imgur.com/CEJLi6C.jpeg

His name is Stephen Ridley, and he is a Scientologist, and he claims that in just one weekend, he can teach you to play 100 different songs, based on 4 chords, and in a one year course, make you an accomplished pianist. However, to enroll in his course, you have to invest as much as $2,997. Some piano teachers will teach you the "four chord" method in your first lesson - this would cost $30 to 60 dollars, not $2,997.

He also states in one of his videos:


"I studied at some of the best music schools in the world, including the Royal College of Music in London and the Juilliard School in New York"

yet, his attendance at this institutions is not part of his official biography, nor are there any videos of him playing the type of pieces that graduates of these institutions would end up playing. He also drops names of people like Stevie Wonder who he claims to have worked with.

He also makes many ridiculous claims about how piano students are usually trained, as opposed to his method he invented:


Classically trained pianists need to study 4 hours a day where as with his method one only needs to study for 3 minutes every day. (Most people I know who are paid musicians on the keyboard didn't study for 4 hours per week during their training, let alone 4 hours per day, however, we all know the if you just study for 3 minutes a day, you will never be able to play much more than the few chords he talks about.)


To be a classically trained pianist, you need to speak Latin! (No, one doesn't need to know even a single word of Latin to be an accomplished pianist. If he really spent any time at Julliard or the Royal College, he would know that there are a few music terms, like "piano", that come from Italian, not Latin, and they can be helpful to learn, but you don't even have to know how to speak that language.)
How much of this money goes to Scientology is hard to say:


If Ridley brazenly misrepresents his skills and the nature of his product, where does all the money from his piano course actually go? Potentially straight into the coffers of the controversial Church of Scientology.

Online sleuths discovered that Ridley resides near the international headquarters for Scientology. His self-helpy, feel-good rhetoric also closely resembles the manipulation tactics for which Scientology receives widespread criticism. Phrases like "revolutionize your life" and "achieve your dreams" permeate his sales pitches.

Moreover, the structured levels for advancing piano skill in his course strongly mirror Scientology's own tiered system for spiritual enlightenment, which requires members to keep paying more and more to climb the rungs. The financial parallels seem too conspicuous to ignore.

While no concrete paper trail of Ridley's payments to Scientology exists yet, the body of circumstantial evidence continues mounting. His alleged lack of transparency regarding the true nature of his offerings combined with his close geographic and ideological ties to a controversial religious institution leave his motives in question.
https://pianoers.com/stephen-ridley/

BOKv8vMODuQ