I would like to raise a point regarding the spirituality section

[Joey]

Hi all,

I come here at the Project Avalon forum very often, but I share sparingly. I like to learn new things about the spirit in matter and how to activate, open and direct spiritual energies in order to open up new possibilities, ways of being, looking and feeling.
I see Project Avalon as a place where open minded people can meet and a place where there is room for as much viewpoints as there are people. The openness and learning of each other’s personal direct experiences is what I really like.

Okay and I am going to raise a point now in which I am very sincere. We have to happen this big spiritual movement of oneness here in the spiritual section. I am referring to the thread Enlightenment and related matters. This in itself is ofcourse completely welcome. It is a place where great insights are born and great teachers are being shared. The thing is, is that this ‘view of spirituality’ has become the norm for these people in this tread. This is perfectly fine, exploring this idea of consciousness can be very helpful, beneficial and a great learning.

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint. Yes, oneness is very important and being able to connect to source is really a big step when it comes to spirituality.

But to point to this again and again and hereby saying that the other experiences should not be sought for. That the only reality is peace, that there is no ego and that it should be destroyed: I just think it holds us back from a deeper sharing of experiences, a deeper sharing of knowledge and a more joyfull sharing of our personal expression of spirituality. I feel there are as many ways to see, feel and act in spirituality as there are people. To say that the experience of no-ego is superior is in my view just not true.

I would like to open a discussion on this point, ofcourse friendly and please without the wisdom of other beings: just our own personal views.

Joey

[TargeT]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint.

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life.....

this illusion, err,, reality is very interesting....

[bettye198]

Thank you Joey. As a matter of reference, new age hippism promoted the peace of oneness in the 60's and it took hold as a way to get our attention and our center during wartime. Since then, the ideology of oneness which I do not dispute, has taken a leap into a perception of acceptance of all. My own personal feeling is that we need to discern, be more aware, alert because not everyone on this planet is worthy of acceptance. I say this with qualification: those who have given permission to the dark side/demonic control and those who are mind controlled ( I have no interest in dealing with THAT) and those who are hollow ( without souls, maybe cloned and hybridized. To be an angelic human the credentials do not say you need wings and a halo. It is being a warrior and warrioress. Our planet is under seige without doubt from different factions and we need to discern. IMHO. I studied that philosophy of oneness way back and since then corruption, wars, deceit and abject fear from controlling factions, our sovereignty being ripped out from under us, all the maneuvers that woke us up taught me to keep my eyes wide open and ask the important questions and do the research as best I could.

I do not speak for others, but for me, I wanted to learn about the science of the Universe so I studied the workshops and books written from Ashayana Deane now called E'Asha. I have been through all the wise readings and studies but for me, my question was not of religion but of how this whole idea of Creation worked ( Keylontic Science) and who are my trusted ancestors and who are not. And how does God create and who is God and how do the dimensions work and all the important elements of DNA and consciousness.

You mentioned Ego and some believe to release it. Of course that would be a good idea but I learned eventually about that. Ego Subconscious and Superconscious were split up (because they were once melded) by our alien ancestor forces that wanted us controlled. I remember reading about the first and second civilizations on the planet from ( somewhere) and that the first civilization, tens of thousands of years ago, did not dream because they had that melding of consciousness states so there was an element of peace without ego. As long as ego persists and it will until this planet moves out of this galaxy to higher realms, we will have that challenge.

[6pounder]

Ty Joey for speaking up. I'm new around here and I've noticed a bit of what you have mentioned. I thing that understanding the situation is the first step (where we are right now). Not getting intrigued by those commnters that tend to always point the same direction with out exploring other options would probably be the second step.

I'm glad you brought this up. I think that what keep some people behind is the lack of accepting others ideas.
I just tend to let things be until some one gets hurt by them. Even if they wrong or just a bit limited in their range of perspective I think the first important thing is to look inside ourselves and ask why does it bother us so much and is it worth being bother with. Some times we can just let them be...

[WhiteLove]

Hi all,

I come here at the Project Avalon forum very often, but I share sparingly. I like to learn new things about the spirit in matter and how to activate, open and direct spiritual energies in order to open up new possibilities, ways of being, looking and feeling.
I see Project Avalon as a place where open minded people can meet and a place where there is room for as much viewpoints as there are people. The openness and learning of each other’s personal direct experiences is what I really like.

Okay and I am going to raise a point now in which I am very sincere. We have to happen this big spiritual movement of oneness here in the spiritual section. I am referring to the thread Enlightenment and related matters. This in itself is ofcourse completely welcome. It is a place where great insights are born and great teachers are being shared. The thing is, is that this ‘view of spirituality’ has become the norm for these people in this tread. This is perfectly fine, exploring this idea of consciousness can be very helpful, beneficial and a great learning.

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint. Yes, oneness is very important and being able to connect to source is really a big step when it comes to spirituality.

But to point to this again and again and hereby saying that the other experiences should not be sought for. That the only reality is peace, that there is no ego and that it should be destroyed: I just think it holds us back from a deeper sharing of experiences, a deeper sharing of knowledge and a more joyfull sharing of our personal expression of spirituality. I feel there are as many ways to see, feel and act in spirituality as there are people. To say that the experience of no-ego is superior is in my view just not true.

I would like to open a discussion on this point, ofcourse friendly and please without the wisdom of other beings: just our own personal views.

Joey

All in creation is valid. Separation, confusion, fear, limitation and density in the state of having forgotten is something that can be very painful especially outside of third density space time. You do not know how it is when you are at a cold place with a pressure at the chest that is incredible, how you are locked inside of a being of great darkness fear, limitation, false and panic with others in that same state. Yes it is valid, but do you really want it? We want pleasure, not pain. You need to be a very special being to honestly like pain and weird flavors of it, most don't and I don't think you would if you would tap into that perspective. In other words, people talking of unconditional love, Christ consciousness, self empowerment, authenticity, truth, light and peace, do so to help create truth and true joy - low density positive polarity. But what spiritual path you choose remains a personal choice.

[Joey]

@ TargeT:

Yes I know that, and trust me, I am working on that. But I consider myself an imperfect human being with a full range of emotions and I express and celebrate them all.
I don't cut myself of from my emotions and I can see that a trigger is a way into my shadow side. I am looking into that.

I can also see that illusion and reality are really close to each other and that is sometimes hard to distinguish one from another. As a human it is simply not possible to be objective.
And exposing also the things which irritates me and not hiding them behide a facade is also a good way for me to receive a mirror from others. So I choose to be clear in this.

But please don't take it out of context. What I am saying is that I think it might get the topic 'stuck' and makes it unable to move to a deeper understanding of things.

[ZooLife]

The banquet table is spread out where one can taste test or delve into a particular dish.

I may create a dish to lay on the banquet table but will everyone enjoy it? Most likely not.

What I have learned is that everyone's eating habits are different. Some stick with their tried and true dishes for a lifetime. Some develop a more adventurous spirit and try something new.

I do know that just like food, something one may find disgusting as a child can become an unexpected joy later in life.

Be a food critic if you like but know this, a critic can only be knowledgeable from their limited point of view and no better then another point (of view).

[Joey]

The banquet table is spread out where one can taste test or delve into a particular dish.

I may create a dish to lay on the banquet table but will everyone enjoy it? Most likely not.

What I have learned is that everyone's eating habits are different. Some stick with their tried and true dishes for a lifetime. Some develop a more adventurous spirit and try something new.

I do know that just like food, something one may find disguising as a child can become an unexpected joy later in life.

Be a food critic if you like but know this, a critic can only be knowledgeable from their limited point of view and no better then another point (of view).

ZooLife, are you saying that I am a critic of a particular point of view?

If this is so, than I would like to make myself clear. I do not have anything against this point of view. I am only saying that putting the same sauce on every dish may not be the right thing.

[ZooLife]

I am only saying that putting the same sauce on every dish may not be the right thing.

That is a point of view, an interpretation.

It is not what I see.

[soul]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint.

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life.....

this illusion, err,, reality is very interesting....

That is true.
Still there seems to be a blockage keeping us from going further with our explorations. Oneness is great idea but it is stagnation that doesn't serve us well (maybe for some it's needed). There are serious questions that demand answers. Matters of direct impact, like processes of mind coming to view after excrecises.
F.e. As many i see the purple mist, static in the air. Things unveil more with time. Creation behind becomes a fact. There are no serious (enough) description of such occurences. Is it just another matrix, sun-machine as some call it. Or what is with the white light someone on this forum pointed out to be the deceptive power.

[TargeT]

But please don't take it out of context. What I am saying is that I think it might get the topic 'stuck' and makes it unable to move to a deeper understanding of things.

Well your completely right, what I was trying to elude to is not to be too harsh on those zealous few that strongly espouse certain beliefs or what they consider to be understandings.

but yes, a room of full cups clinking into each other is just going to make a mess... but it's hard to listen when you have a chance to talk; especially with the constraint freeing anonymity and the specific nature of this forum (I think this is another function of ego, it has to constantly re-enforce that which it is currently identifying with, be it veganism, politics, religion... what ever it latches onto and ties "individual identity" to.

We are rarely mentally present, fully in the "now"... a lot of our actions are just routine, momentum based or subconscious programming.

think about what is bouncing around in your head right now... why do you have a personal narrator, is that even you?

Anyway, given these struggles I'm pretty damn accepting with what I see out there... I'm just thankful there's a place like this where I can observe the splinter groups of the "awakened" act exactly like everyone else in the world (at least, at times).



That is true.
Still there seems to be a blockage keeping us from going further with our explorations. Oneness is great idea but it is stagnation that doesn't serve us well (maybe for some it's needed). There are serious questions that demand answers. Matters of direct impact, like processes of mind coming to view after excrecises.


This reality seems to strive for balance, over time things "even out".

I've been thinking about this a lot lately... it seems that we are the agents of entropy, we are the - sign... we bottle chaos and force it to our will, we fear change (chaos) and prefer the static (entropy).... but that's contrary to this reality, so chaos pushes back, the more we order the more we invite chaos...

it seems like an arms race; the further you get from the ballance point, the more likely you are to over correct back into ballance (pendulum swinging is a good example, the further away from the center point, the harder the back swing will be) is that what's going on?

[ZooLife]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint.

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life.....

this illusion, err,, reality is very interesting....

That is true.
Still there seems to be a blockage keeping us from going further with our explorations. Oneness is great idea but it is stagnation that doesn't serve us well (maybe for some it's needed). There are serious questions that demand answers. Matters of direct impact, like processes of mind coming to view after excrecises.
F.e. As many i see the purple mist, static in the air. Things unveil more with time. Creation behind becomes a fact. There are no serious (enough) description of such occurences. Is it just another matrix, sun-machine as some call it. Or what is with the white light someone on this forum pointed out to be the deceptive power.

Who is this 'us' spoken of?

Is it 'oneness' speaking for all of 'us'?

I hate when that happens. ;)

http://johnnybpinedajr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/HateWhenThisHappens.jpg

[soul]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint.

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life.....

this illusion, err,, reality is very interesting....

That is true.
Still there seems to be a blockage keeping us from going further with our explorations. Oneness is great idea but it is stagnation that doesn't serve us well (maybe for some it's needed). There are serious questions that demand answers. Matters of direct impact, like processes of mind coming to view after excrecises.
F.e. As many i see the purple mist, static in the air. Things unveil more with time. Creation behind becomes a fact. There are no serious (enough) description of such occurences. Is it just another matrix, sun-machine as some call it. Or what is with the white light someone on this forum pointed out to be the deceptive power.

Who is this 'us' spoken of?

Is it 'oneness' speaking for all of 'us'?

I hate when that happens. ;)

http://johnnybpinedajr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/HateWhenThisHappens.jpg

By all means,
please do share your answers to these questions and the process that made you so sure about them. Glad there is nothing stoping you.

[ZooLife]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint.

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life.....

this illusion, err,, reality is very interesting....

That is true.
Still there seems to be a blockage keeping us from going further with our explorations. Oneness is great idea but it is stagnation that doesn't serve us well (maybe for some it's needed). There are serious questions that demand answers. Matters of direct impact, like processes of mind coming to view after excrecises.
F.e. As many i see the purple mist, static in the air. Things unveil more with time. Creation behind becomes a fact. There are no serious (enough) description of such occurences. Is it just another matrix, sun-machine as some call it. Or what is with the white light someone on this forum pointed out to be the deceptive power.

Who is this 'us' spoken of?

Is it 'oneness' speaking for all of 'us'?

I hate when that happens. ;)

http://johnnybpinedajr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/HateWhenThisHappens.jpg

By all means,
please do share your answers to these questions and the process that made you so sure about them. Glad there is nothing stoping you.

I do share but thanks for your invite.

I couldn't have cross the threshold without it.

[Joey]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint.

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life.....

this illusion, err,, reality is very interesting....

That is true.
Still there seems to be a blockage keeping us from going further with our explorations. Oneness is great idea but it is stagnation that doesn't serve us well (maybe for some it's needed). There are serious questions that demand answers. Matters of direct impact, like processes of mind coming to view after excrecises.
F.e. As many i see the purple mist, static in the air. Things unveil more with time. Creation behind becomes a fact. There are no serious (enough) description of such occurences. Is it just another matrix, sun-machine as some call it. Or what is with the white light someone on this forum pointed out to be the deceptive power.

Who is this 'us' spoken of?

Is it 'oneness' speaking for all of 'us'?

I hate when that happens. ;)

http://johnnybpinedajr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/HateWhenThisHappens.jpg

You see ZooLife, this is exactly the point I am referring to.

[Matthew]

There are places to directly relate personal experiences and wisdoms on the forum from an egotistical point of view so to speak. Yes the ego serves useful functions and at the same time .. can get in the way. If you're calling out in defence of the ego fair enough. But the egoless thread goes round and round by it's own admission. I quite like that. If that aspect of it is fixed then it might break it

:thumbsup:

[ZooLife]

You see ZooLife, this is exactly the point I am referring to.

It is a point, I give you that.

Point away.......>

I shall leave you to it.

[soul]

Nice, it still relates to human consciousness. Ego or not if there are energies in human body that make it possible to experience very different things than ordinary i could expect that it would be a topic of great importance.
Not ego just life, energies but less abstract perhaps.

It's not the thing of one person. Many people ask about these things and what is more important: there are paths that can get you to experience these energies and many follow them. Usually under guidence (f.e. Kryia). Books describe these processes with almost scientific approach but surely leave out the talk about what it leads to. That is something i can't come to terms with. Some people know it, for sure. But it isn't public.
Mysteries oaths are a fact and you can see it even on this forum.

[Joey]

There are places to directly relate personal experiences and wisdoms on the forum from an egotistical point of view so to speak. Yes the ego serves useful functions and at the same time .. can get in the way. If you're calling out in defence of the ego fair enough. But the egoless thread goes round and round by it's own admission. I quite like that. If that aspect of it is fixed then it might break it

:thumbsup:

I see that and I respect that. The Enlightenment treads have his place and should be honored and celebrated. A lot of things are to be learned there.

The thing I would like to point out is that when a discussion/insight/experience is shared, we cannot simply explain everything away with oneness.

In order to navigate this reality we have to use the mind. We have to label, categorise, make ethical notions about things and see if we can get to a greater understanding where both worlds can come togheter: The world of oneness and form.

If something is true, it must be true on different levels.

[Valley]

Perhaps those that understand more about Oneness are the 'ones' that can better relate with those without that understanding... But if some are just 'regurgitating' quotes and other people's views, and not relaying real experience/understanding, then I think that causes more 'disturbances'.

If someone is just taunting and toying with folks, only pretending to have a greater understanding of 'oneness' or 'non-duality'... That's the main 'issue' I see in the 'oneness' or 'non-duality' discussions. I think this is done on purpose sometimes so that those genuine understandings will get a bad reputation.

Excellent topic for discussion I'd say...
Thanks Joey

[ZooLife]

What is the saying? Remove the speck from one's own eye.

Until then all is speckled. (Paraphrased)

[soul]

What is the saying? Remove the speck from one's own eye.

Until then all is speckled. (Paraphrased)

Your wisdom is appreciated as the meaning of simple words for those who can relate.
Love you anyway :). But just as i love everything that lives. I understood that. It's only the things that remain unknown and are possibly harmless i'm interested in. But if there is something harmful and popular i wouldn't mind knowing how to avoid it. Especially if it's harmful to the spirit. Sure you can jump, someday i will.

You actualy can create whole worlds in your mind. This isn't your normal imagination. Good? Bad? Maybe just what is... or not. I don't really expect an answer (although it would be nice to hear one), just trying to see if anybody here has gone further.
True brotherhood isn't based on oaths.

[Bubu]

Every person is correct from his/her own perspective. Its best to try not to be affected by the other persons actions and opinion rather than try to change the other person.

[Deega]

Hi all,
The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit. There are people here on the forum who have had great insights, experiences and states of expanded consciousness. I think it is not necessary to again and again point people to your fact that oneness is the one thing and nothing else should or can be attaint. Yes, oneness is very important and being able to connect to source is really a big step when it comes to spirituality.

But to point to this again and again and hereby saying that the other experiences should not be sought for. That the only reality is peace, that there is no ego and that it should be destroyed: I just think it holds us back from a deeper sharing of experiences, a deeper sharing of knowledge and a more joyfull sharing of our personal expression of spirituality. I feel there are as many ways to see, feel and act in spirituality as there are people. To say that the experience of no-ego is superior is in my view just not true.

I would like to open a discussion on this point, ofcourse friendly and please without the wisdom of other beings: just our own personal views.

Joey


Dear Joey, your point of view is quite interesting, you want something different from the Enlightenment Tread, well, please open up a new Tread on ''Enlightenment Alternative'', it would be interesting to circumbscribe what you would like to read, share, and be different to the actual one, go for it.

All of us are children of the Universe, that's special, that's miraculous, and we are exploring everyday what we are, where we come from, where we're heading, but we have difficulties to reach out for universal accepted truth. We're searching and searching, as have done, over thousand of years, Spiritual Thinkers who might have found the Grail or not, and there books are richness for those who seek their truth.

We are intellgent people, so if something come out that ain't in light with what we have learned, we may contest, may differ, accept, refuse, or adapt, but still, years are needed such that we may find a path in line with what we are hoping for. I think that AF members who participate in the Tread like it that way, and it great!, others like you would like to have an alternative, and it great also!, be the change if you like!

As you know, there is something in everyone that is the truth, your spirit, and if you open up to your spirit, it will bring great things.

Personally, I think that it's impossible to get rid of the ego, and if we used old scripture to qualify such a behaviour, we're putting ourselves in trouble. As you are aware, we have seven specialized bodily systems synchronized to have us living, and these were put up by a very intelligent being who programmed our DNA such that our ego stand to condition our development first, then to maintain ourselves doing creation every day. One may want to bypass the ego, but along the line, something got to give, and that may be the surprise, worth exploring!

And, as you know, at an early age, we were programmed to adopt behaviours that were in line with what Society was expecting of us. So we are caught up in pretty good programming all the way round.

I would think that there are people who might be able to transcend the ego, but they have been programmed at an early age to spiritual knowledge and enlightenment.

[ghostrider]

We live in a world built on division , race, culture , gender , age , religion , political views , truthers , conspiracy nuts , rich or poor , we have so far to go to see ourselves as earthlings and then begin to unite and enter true oneness ... not possible until division is gone ...

[Melinda]

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life...

I think I know what TargeT means, so I don't disagree. (Thank you for commenting TargeT :) )

Often when I react negatively to something I check myself, asking why has it hit a nerve? Is there a wound or a primal instinct I've suppressed in myself that causes an emotion to be triggered?

But sometimes I've seen the philosophy TargeT shared conveyed in a more simplified way. Like whatever is disliked in another is a direct reflection of something identical in yourself. And I find it an oversimplification.

For example...

When a mother or father feels dislike (to whatever degree) for someone attacking their baby, and strong emotion/adrenalin is triggered, I don't think it's because they have an urge to attack their own baby themselves. It's because they have a deep protective instinct to prevent harm coming to the innocent life that is too helpless to defend his or herself. But then, there are those who, whilst defending another, are simultaneously venting a disconnected aggression, and the opportunity for heroism has a layered agenda.

When someone dislikes a person playing loud music at 3am, I don't think it's necessarily because they wish they could be inconsiderate to others in the same way, and are frustrated in suppressing that wish. Although for some, that could be a motivator.

Hidden agendas aside, what they may dislike is not necessarily the same 'inconsiderate urge' they've experienced in others, angered because they fear it in themselves. It could be argued that they fear / are angered by an inability to control their reaction/emotions and/or their environment. But that is not necessarily a reflection of the person triggering their emotion. The person triggering them, by attacking their child or playing loud music, could be very much in control - and acting out in a calculated, rather than misguided way. Like the difference between young souls who know no better yet, whose impulses get the better of them, and old souls who have become addicted to indulging negative behaviours.

I've had moments where I was angered / triggered by any number of different situations / forms of negativity - then the fear / anger was resolved when a wave of forgiveness swept through me. Not in any righteous or emotionally charged sense. More like a detachment born out of truly letting go. Not forced. More like a quiet moment of divine inspiration from deep within.

That kind of detachment is a shedding of skin. Not a suppression or amputation of a valuable (emotional) response.

To forgive is not the same as to permit something, though that might be a strength in some contexts. But in remembering we have everything we need to counter a negativity, we are empowered to prevent or transmute it with less effort, and greater effect. Perhaps it's best described not as a mental 'remembering' (though it helps) but as our soul remembering. In a way that engages our emotions and mind in synchronicity. From a deep place, riding through us in a wave. An essence that fills or cleanses consciousness.

Moments like those are true power. I feel grateful for them.

None of us, or no one I've known deeply, has had it easy in this world. Plenty to forgive as we stumble through our limitations, and learn that rather than identifying with fear, there is an untapped source - flowing through our hearts. I am constantly learning (or trying to) how to get out of the way, so it can take me to a higher, or a new, level of perception.

Michael Tsarion made me laugh once (in a video) when he took umbrage at the vagueness of the idea, often quoted in what might be termed 'new age' circles, that "we are all one." "One what?" he retorted (with a hint of humour.)

Sometimes I resonate with what he was getting at. A frustration with the escapism you sense in some cases, as though someone is hiding behind a cliché in that term rather than defining or exploring a complexity.

But there are times I resonate with the idea of us being one, in a specific sense. One as in connected. In the microcosm of one individual it can be expressed as an alchemy, the balanced chemistry that occurs when all parts of us are alive with health. When each part of the mind / body / soul is functioning well, and in tandem. Communicating clearly. The ego and the spirit, choosing one another's company. Mutual respect. The low and higher chakras flowing in unison. Then the whole becomes bigger than the sum of its parts. Our energy body glows with vitality.

In context of the macrocosm of community, it can be achieved by seeking harmony. What is in the highest and best interest of the whole, where we respect the journey of the sovereign individual, but take nourishment from working for the joy and fulfilment of others. In that sense of service can be a deeper, more satisfying meaning for the individual. Because our worlds become bigger, and deeper. And we feel at home. More secure - nourished to journey more freely, through the vast and ever changing mystery around us.

:)

[FinallyNow]

Joey so much has been said. Thanks for this thread. Your points are well taken and shared to a great extent by me. Oftentimes we or others perhaps espouse the end game of "oneness" and lack of ego but when the average person posts nuts and bolts experiences that don't conform to those things they don't seem to be very appreciated. I post almost nothing because of that and because it can be difficult to articulate things one is not themselves sure about. Oftentimes, for me these days and with some of the complex topics we put our minds and hearts into, written language for me just doesn't cut it because in a conversation I can refine the points as they're being made with immediate feedback and exchange.

[Valley]

Another thing that could help explain this perceived 'divide', is that many folks like to act like they are smarter/'more advanced' than they actually may be... or they may think that because they have 'absorbed'/memorized many 'teachings', that that makes them an 'authority' or more advanced than someone without that 'information'.

What I 'look for' to help determine how 'advanced' any one may be, is not how much they know or have memorized... but how much compassion, positivity, and friendliness they exude... as well as how neutral and unattached they seem to be, especially when challenged. Humor and creativity are other 'signals'.

[OMG]

There are more or less two choices when discussing something.

1. Details
2. ALL-ness

Everything is spirit, 3D reality/matter being slowed down spirit stuff. So Everything is Oneness in this sense...

...yet how's the saying go..."the Devil is in the details"

:)

[Valley]

A question for Joey...
I wonder why you only 'targeted' the "Enlightenment and related matters" thread in your original statement? I've seen a number of other threads that speak plenty about oneness too. It's probably just because that thread is so active, I'd guess. I think it is so active mainly due to a 'comradery of spirit' that exists there, that it is a 'place' set aside where we can support each other on this 'journey of life', and share 'bits & pieces' of our experiences/findings/understandings/whims. I agree that 'oneness' is a central theme focused on there, but shouldn't that be expected from a thread with that kind of title? ...and if those concepts carry over to other threads by those 'contributors' there... it seems that that should also be expected by those 'ones' also... yes?

What do you get if you take the "e"/ego out of "Joey"?
(A trick question, I know.)
Many Blessings Bro...

[Joey]

Thank you everyone for your heartfelt comments and shares on this 'touchy' subject.

The point which Deega raised in opening a new tread is a good point. I will think about it (Because I am not someone who posts regurarly I am not sure if it will gain enough momentum, so I have to be active in it).

And in response to your sincere question Valley:
I am 'targeting' the Enlightenment and related matters' tread because I see it as the main gathering point where the people with interest in these matter meet and share. And please, again, I don't have anything against it. I have spent a lot of hours in this tread. First as a visitor, then as a member and eventually I posted some things in it. I have explored these ideas and philosophies for a couple of years and I really think there is some great knowledge and truth to it. We have oneness playing the game of form. And everythings is alive, connected and there is simply no seperation. I can see this everyday.

But we have oneness in so many forms and there are so many different patternings troughout creation which has so many different and equal functions. The list goes on and on and when I learn new things I am just more amazed by the beauty and complexity of this whole dynamic called life. There can be such a joyous time of heartfelt sharing of ideas, experiences, knowledge, excersizes and philosophies with no limits at all.

And because this is a place 'Where science and spirituality meet', I find it a pity that the spirituality section is not getting enough momentum to really explore this place where matter and spirit are actually one and how this dynamic works on all levels. And when people share their experiences in other, I think it is just a shame that a lot of times it should be 'reduced and explained away' by oneness. And this is often done by the people who are very active in this tread. I just think it doensn't help the personal evolution and the evolution of Avalon to make it a wonderous place where science and spirituality really meet. To see that in the end there is really no difference. And to explore how we can use science to develop spiritually and use spirituality to develop scientifically.

I think we could step out of the brain schism of left versus right, science versus spirituality, matter versus spirit, details versus wholeness and that it would be very nice if this could be a place where all ideas could be shared and celebrated.

I realize that if i want such a place, I should probably making it myself. So I will think about it ;)

[Kitty]

Relinquishing the illusion is very often gradual, with milestones of 'new' understanding. We build plateaus of belief systems to stand on while we prepare ourselves for dispelling the next illusion in our individualized version of the journey. Sometimes we understand that and sometimes we have to try to convince a lot of 'others' in order to feel 'safe' on our new plateau. A forum like this can be really helpful, allowing us to fully flesh out each plateau for ourselves in a supportive environment. At our best, we can open our hearts to each others' journeys with the compassion we'd like our own journey to be treated. It is very tempting to 'help' others get on with the process when they seem stuck. But, in my experience, stuck really means intense inner pressure to keep awakening. I am always grateful for the kind comment reminding me that when the dissonance is great enough 'I'll make the next leap. 'I' do understand there are many diversions along the way that can take our energy and trick our consciousness. Still it's a delicate matter to discern what is compassionate guidance and what is weakening the very ground another needs to stand on to make their next leap.

[Joey]

Still it's a delicate matter to discern what is compassionate guidance and what is weakening the very ground another needs to stand on to make their next leap.

That is really a good advice, thank you for that.

[TargeT]

Just wait till you realize that everything you dislike in others, is really just something you dislike about your self & that you wanted that interaction in your life...

I think I know what TargeT means, so I don't disagree. (Thank you for commenting TargeT :) )

Often when I react negatively to something I check myself, asking why has it hit a nerve? Is there a wound or a primal instinct I've suppressed in myself that causes an emotion to be triggered?

But sometimes I've seen the philosophy TargeT shared conveyed in a more simplified way. Like whatever is disliked in another is a direct reflection of something identical in yourself. And I find it an oversimplification.

For example...

When a mother or father feels dislike (to whatever degree) for someone attacking their baby, and strong emotion/adrenalin is triggered, I don't think it's because they have an urge to attack their own baby themselves. It's because they have a deep protective instinct to prevent harm coming to the innocent life that is too helpless to defend his or herself. But then, there are those who, whilst defending another, are simultaneously venting a disconnected aggression, and the opportunity for heroism has a layered agenda.

Yep, that's exactly it... the beauty (and frustration) of a fractal reality is that it is both simple and vastly complex at the same time; it just depends on how you look at it (AND, both answers are absolutely correct for the most part) so that's another aspect to keep in mind... every pattern seems to be fractionally represented (though not always contextually the same) "above and below" (macro and micro)...


When someone dislikes a person playing loud music at 3am, I don't think it's necessarily because they wish they could be inconsiderate to others in the same way, and are frustrated in suppressing that wish.

I always saw it applying to the unexplained emotional surge, not the reaction based.. reactions are not from the limbic system, they are from the reptilian system...





I've had moments where I was angered / triggered by any number of different situations / forms of negativity - then the fear / anger was resolved when a wave of forgiveness swept through me. Not in any righteous or emotionally charged sense. More like a detachment born out of truly letting go. Not forced. More like a quiet moment of divine inspiration from deep within.

That kind of detachment is a shedding of skin. Not a suppression or amputation of a valuable (emotional) response.

when it happens you know, that's for sure... sounds like you've got the process down, it's really just self analysis; ensuring your actions align fully with your intent.



To forgive is not the same as to permit something, though that might be a strength in some contexts. But in remembering we have everything we need to counter a negativity, we are empowered to prevent or transmute it with less effort, and greater effect. Perhaps it's best described not as a mental 'remembering' (though it helps) but as our soul remembering. In a way that engages our emotions and mind in synchronicity. From a deep place, riding through us in a wave. An essence that fills or cleanses consciousness.

Moments like those are true power. I feel grateful for them.

Especially when a lot of times, you're really just forgiving yourself... ;)




None of us, or no one I've known deeply, has had it easy in this world. Plenty to forgive as we stumble through our limitations, and learn that rather than identifying with fear, there is an untapped source - flowing through our hearts. I am constantly learning (or trying to) how to get out of the way, so it can take me to a higher, or a new, level of perception.

Michael Tsarion made me laugh once (in a video) when he took umbrage at the vagueness of the idea, often quoted in what might be termed 'new age' circles, that "we are all one." "One what?" he retorted (with a hint of humour.)

Sometimes I resonate with what he was getting at. A frustration with the escapism you sense in some cases, as though someone is hiding behind a cliché in that term rather than defining or exploring a complexity.

But there are times I resonate with the idea of us being one, in a specific sense. One as in connected. In the microcosm of one individual it can be expressed as an alchemy, the balanced chemistry that occurs when all parts of us are alive with health. When each part of the mind / body / soul is functioning well, and in tandem. Communicating clearly. The ego and the spirit, choosing one another's company. Mutual respect. The low and higher chakras flowing in unison. Then the whole becomes bigger than the sum of its parts. Our energy body glows with vitality.


It's a slippery fish isn't it? But humans never grow with out a challenge, so really any time your uncomfortable and have to "push" to get something done be happy; it's good for you!

Sounds like we are both of the same mind set on this; I waiver a lot on how strongly I'm committed to these ideas ;)

[zen deik]

Thru pain comes peace, thru confusion comes better understanding, from doubt springs stronger faith, embrace them all and keep your eye on the mark knowing we all fall short....

[DeDukshyn]

...

And because this is a place 'Where science and spirituality meet', I find it a pity that the spirituality section is not getting enough momentum to really explore this place where matter and spirit are actually one and how this dynamic works on all levels. And when people share their experiences in other, I think it is just a shame that a lot of times it should be 'reduced and explained away' by oneness. And this is often done by the people who are very active in this tread. I just think it doensn't help the personal evolution and the evolution of Avalon to make it a wonderous place where science and spirituality really meet. To see that in the end there is really no difference. And to explore how we can use science to develop spiritually and use spirituality to develop scientifically.

...

I really agree with your point in this paragraph. One of my main interests is particularly to try to fill that void that still exists between matter and spirit. There is a void here, and I have focused much of my research in this exact area. This "void" isn't nearly as big or complex as it seems, and somehow the mind rejects attempting to fill it.

At the same time Avalon does have a fair bit of discussion in this area, it just is not dedicated to any single area. The elements are of course, advanced physics (finer observations of the material realm), "active spirituality" (finer observations based on experience), "theoretical spirituality" (finer logical speculation based around experiential spirituality - I guess this is metaphysics), the "mind" and the way it works and is influenced; and the play between all these factors and the effects on the coarser experiences of the human condition.

I'd love to see a thread called "where science and spirituality meet" that is dedicated specifically to discussion about the "void" with intention of filling that void while maintaining both the theoretical side of the discussion and the experiential.

I think this may be a thread I would spend some time in ...

[Deega]

Hi DeDukshyn, I have found a video of Dr Gregg Braden talking about ''Science meets Spirituality'', I don't know if you haven't see it?, if you did, maybe other members have not, so here it is!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQn8t9v0O1M

[greybeard]

Gregg Braden is one of my favourites--
Many of his video were posted on "Enlightenment and related matters thread" as were David Sereda, Nassim Haramein, Heart Maths and many others who made the connection between science and spirituality.

The challenge is that Gregg and and others do not make that many videos and as it is a busy thread a video can disappear off the"front page" fairly quickly.

All the more reason to start a thread dedicated specifically to Science and spirituality.

Chris

[Clear Light]

And because this is a place 'Where science and spirituality meet', I find it a pity that the spirituality section is not getting enough momentum to really explore this place where matter and spirit are actually one and how this dynamic works on all levels. And when people share their experiences in other, I think it is just a shame that a lot of times it should be 'reduced and explained away' by oneness. And this is often done by the people who are very active in this tread. I just think it doensn't help the personal evolution and the evolution of Avalon to make it a wonderous place where science and spirituality really meet. To see that in the end there is really no difference. And to explore how we can use science to develop spiritually and use spirituality to develop scientifically.

Oh, Joey, great thread by the way :highfive:

But how is it "true" to say "matter and spirit are actually one" ? Or have you yet to make your mind up that this is the case hence the reason for this thread ... or you have come to some "conclusion" and wish to discuss it ... or ...

Also, I'd suggest it depends on what you mean when you say "science" ?

Just some thoughts :wave:

[Valley]

Always getting back to the childlike innocence and joy is key for me. I find that that is our natural state... to be in a state of awe and wonder with 'life', and to keep 'playing'/exploring/experimenting with our opportunities/abilities... and not take ourselves, or imagined selves, too seriously. Once we begin to imagine that we've 'become an expert', then that can easily cause major stagnations in our growth. If we are always 'fresh' in mind/spirit, then we are always more prepared for anything new that presents itself... and there always does seem to be something seemingly new to discover/explore along this 'infinite journey'.

One of the most fascinating 'exploratory outlets' for me these days is our ability to create the future, or what is more commonly termed 'manifestation' these days. This has become a 'fact of life' for me, after extensively experimenting with 'it' over that past several years... and seems to be a natural ability we all have. I just started a thread recently about this where many folks 'chimed in' with their amazing personal experiences... and can be found here...
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?87907-Amazing-Personal-Stories-of-Manifestation You mentioned earlier your intention to focus more on uniting science and spirituality, and I find manifestation to be just that... so I wanted to share... I think you may enjoy it, if you haven't already checked it out.

All the Best...

PS... And what a wonderful thread this here is turning out to be. Thank you... Everyone.

[sirdipswitch]

Don't judge all by the same thread...

Without my massive Ego... I would never have made

The Jump To Light Speed!!!ccc.:wizard:

[Deega]

A Thread on Spirituality meets Science was opened up a while back, see!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72726-Where-science-and-spirituality-meet--revisited-&p=850356&highlight=Spirituality+meets+science#post850356

[greybeard]

A Thread on Spirituality meets Science was opened up a while back, see!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72726-Where-science-and-spirituality-meet--revisited-&p=850356&highlight=Spirituality+meets+science#post850356

When a thread is started it requires daily input from the originator till some momentum is there, even then it requires a fair amount of attention.
If left to its own devices i will die quite quickly.

Chris

[DeDukshyn]

Hi DeDukshyn, I have found a video of Dr Gregg Braden talking about ''Science meets Spirituality'', I don't know if you haven't see it?, if you did, maybe other members have not, so here it is!


... video trim ...


Thanks for the link Deega. I am a pretty big fan of Gregg actually, he's done some amazing research and connected many dots between matter and spirit. I'd say he's one of the current best in this particularly area. I also really enjoy Katya Walters - a physicist, I have only seen a few interviews of her, but I really want to check out some of her books. Her story is incredibly fascinating.

[Andre]

What follows is an opinion about the root cause of evil in the world today in relation to this thread and spirituality. My opinion is not based on religious doctrine but is attempt to better understand the Mechanics of Light and Energy.

I hope it provides some food for thought.

Over the eons our desire to be loving has been clouded by what we call "negative" energy in a much more significant way than we realize. Unfortunately, our lack of acceptance for so-called negative energy has put all of it in a state of denial that is now being reflected back to us constantly on Earth because we have not dealt with it within. We continue to judge certain emotion as bad - anger being one of the most glaring examples - and stuff it down into a state of denial where it has no choice but to move in a state of denial that manifests around us in forms that we do not like. This is now happening on a global scale and is the root cause of so-called "evil" in the world as well as our lack of personal, loving power. Because we have stuffed so much "negative" emotion down life time after life time and not dealt with our own anger, hatred, fear and terror by judging it as "not loving", we now find it increasingly difficult to manifest our heart's desires. The enormity of this denied energy is reflected back to us in our own world and the world around us in the form of personal drama, pollution and even war in the hope that we will finally realize that we must deal with it in an honest way.

Part of coming into an honest loving state of consciousness involves the release of all the denied energy, especially hatred and terror. Why else are we getting a constant reflection of "terrorism" around us in the world today? When enough of us confront our inner fears and own terror and then bring those denials into the light with acceptance to be transmuted, "terrorism" will simply disappear from our world. It can no longer be done simply by trying to become more loving. So many "good people" around the world fail to understand the role of denial and the Mechanics of Light & Energy. They do not understand how we are perpetuating so-called evil and they continue to preach Love without considering the all important role of denial and facing our inner most fears and everything that we have judged as bad within us.

[Joey]

And because this is a place 'Where science and spirituality meet', I find it a pity that the spirituality section is not getting enough momentum to really explore this place where matter and spirit are actually one and how this dynamic works on all levels. And when people share their experiences in other, I think it is just a shame that a lot of times it should be 'reduced and explained away' by oneness. And this is often done by the people who are very active in this tread. I just think it doensn't help the personal evolution and the evolution of Avalon to make it a wonderous place where science and spirituality really meet. To see that in the end there is really no difference. And to explore how we can use science to develop spiritually and use spirituality to develop scientifically.



Oh, Joey, great thread by the way :highfive:

But how is it "true" to say "matter and spirit are actually one" ? Or have you yet to make your mind up that this is the case hence the reason for this thread ... or you have come to some "conclusion" and wish to discuss it ... or ...

Also, I'd suggest it depends on what you mean when you say "science" ?

Just some thoughts :wave:

Hi Clear Blue Skies,

Thanks for your question. Well, I am looking in to this in order to gain more understanding. As I came to understand is this thing called matter vibratory energy which forms waves of frequency and motion in order te generate space and time. I am finding multiple sources who lead to Geometry as the building blocks of the forming of light into matter. You see, looking it at this way, matter is nothing more than structured light.

Those geometric building blocks create the whole Multi-leveld, Multi-dimensional universe. My understanding at this point is very small, but I feel a deep urge to research this more. And of course sharing it with people can really boost my learning curve.

Some examples of the Geometry of life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPh-DJR6pAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHuvW7YaGjQ
https://vimeo.com/9953368

Another book I am now reading is called 'The Field' by Lynne McTaggart. I just have started this book but my expectations are pretty high. She found a lot of interest in the cutting edge science and studied some of them. The thing is that they where all very fragmented in their research. She got the idea to see if these findings can be brought together in a consitent way. So this book is a bringing togheter of different groundbreaking studies. It's around for free on the web somewhere.

[Clear Light]

The thing which annoys me is that the people seem to advocate ‘their view of spirituality’ in all other threads. They have become in my view a sort of ‘spiritual fanatics’. Always quoting wise texts from ‘enlightened beings’ only pointing to the experience of oneness and no-ego-ness. And to be honest, this annoys me a bit.

Oh, Joey, I always like to take into account the Context of the thread and respond appropriately ... though sometimes I do find it more expedient to use a quote if it can convey what I want to say but in a more concise manner if you see what I mean ?

Now, and this is just an observation, one reason why particular quotes are sometimes used is to act as a Mirror between individuals because they can highlight discrepancies between what we are each asserting (say with regards to Realisation, so-called "Enlightenment", "truth" etc) with that of the Realisation of a long standing widely accepted authority or 'Guru' figure ...

LOL ... I suppose at times it can seem like a kind of "Spiritual Warfare" or "Dharma Debate" with different Traditions vying for Supremacy or Domination !!!


:fencing:

[greybeard]

And because this is a place 'Where science and spirituality meet', I find it a pity that the spirituality section is not getting enough momentum to really explore this place where matter and spirit are actually one and how this dynamic works on all levels. And when people share their experiences in other, I think it is just a shame that a lot of times it should be 'reduced and explained away' by oneness. And this is often done by the people who are very active in this tread. I just think it doensn't help the personal evolution and the evolution of Avalon to make it a wonderous place where science and spirituality really meet. To see that in the end there is really no difference. And to explore how we can use science to develop spiritually and use spirituality to develop scientifically.

Oh, Joey, great thread by the way :highfive:

But how is it "true" to say "matter and spirit are actually one" ? Or have you yet to make your mind up that this is the case hence the reason for this thread ... or you have come to some "conclusion" and wish to discuss it ... or ...

Also, I'd suggest it depends on what you mean when you say "science" ?

Just some thoughts :wave:

With respect Joey you have not made many posts and possibly not spent much time in the spiritual section---momentum requires posts.

The thread "Enlightenment and related matters" was renamed to add the related matters some time ago-- and from that time, included scientific input, earth changes and various other things. People do post on these subjects there and elsewhere.
The thread gets on average three thousand visits every week and now totals over 406.000 "hits"

It would be great if a thread specifically on Science and Spirituality was given the support it deserves.
Good that this thread highlights the need Joey

Chris

[Joey]

@ Clear Blue Skies: Thank you for your clearing your view. I really feel it is very good to discuss things in a open and non-aggressive way. It can really open people up for new views and realities. So doing it 'The Darhma way' is very good.

@ Greybeard: I clearly am not in this tread all the time and you can be sure that I miss the details and some depth to the information. Besides that the Science and Spirituality is a good idea and outcome of this discussion. Altough this was not the intent of this thread.

As we go further down this discussion a lot of things have opened to me. I have realised that my view of spirituality might be very different than the consensus reality regarding spirituality. For me it has become more and more the embodiment of all that I am, with all my aspects. To really let all my being into my field of existence. This also includes my 'hot' and not so perfect and loving parts. I do not strive to be a perfectly loving person. I strive to be real and honest in every sense. I try to be clear to people in what I think, feel and do. This gets me in a discussion from time to time but I notice that I am actually find this important and very benificial. From there I gain knowledge and feedback. I burn myself regurarly and this is again becomes new fuel for reflection and growth. The only outcome of this can be more knowledge, self-knowledge and in the end love.

The other aspect I really see as 'spiritual' is the absolute dedication to truth in all it's forms. This goes from totality to detail. If there is one thing spirituality must bring me, its empowering by truth. I don't want to be content with another insidious trap, leaving me in a 'spiritual bubble' of ungroundedness. This can feel for a good, but as everything which is not aligned with truth can only bring pain in the end. I am starting to realise that this 'spiritual quest for truth' is my most important part, because is takes everything into consideration. Suddenly everything becomes potentially important in the undoing of the illusion. The vast illusion ;)

[greybeard]

Joey, intention is the most important thing and you have that.
What you need will automatically come to you as you have stated that you want this.

Best wishes
Chris