Unbelievable conspiracies

[Nick Matkin]

One of the purposes of this forum is to debate conspiracies. However, Bill and the mods give short thrift to some; the flat earth (supported by various ridiculous videos) and sightings of Nibiru/Planet-X (supported by photos of sun dogs and lens flares) are two that spring to mind. I only bring them up to illustrate a point and not to start a debate. That can and has been done elsewhere.

My question is what 'conspiracies' have forum members heard that in their opinion beggar belief that anyone could take seriously. Perhaps we can steer clear of Big Pharma existing to make us healthier, or that banks and governments are here to protect our interests. These and similar have, and continue to be, thoroughly debated on Project Avalon.

What I'm thinking of are wild individual beliefs that you've come across from friends, relatives, colleagues. Things that expose people's lack understanding of where things come from and how stuff works. Things that make you think: "WTF!!??"

I have one to repeat here later, but let's hear those of others first.

[Kryztian]

Good question although I think some people might wonder if you are implying that there is a litmus test of what one believes in to be a mod. I don't think there is.

Collectively, Avalonians have debunked a few conspiracies:

There were the Nietzerman prophecies that showed up last September. Some people were concerned that they were quite genuine and some of us on the Forum did research and applied our minds and processed information that allowed us to collectively conclude that this was a hoax. (And then the creator of the hoax came forth, told his story, and joined the forum).
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85187-The-Jacques-Nietzermann-hoax
(Note: the word "hoax" did not originally appear in the thread when this first appeared.)

I always assumed that the "Paul Is Dead" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead) (Paul McCartney) conspiracy was one of the most ridiculous conspiracies ever and was driven by Beatles fandom and the irrationality and emotionalism of his fans. Two researchers set out this to prove this by analyzing the facial structure of "Paul" before and after 1966, and by analyzing the structure of his songs. There scientific conclusion: there were indeed two different Pauls (story published in the Italian version of "Wired" (http://mag.wired.it/rivista/storie/chiedi-chi-era-quel-beatle.html))

I think if you want to stay sane and stayed immersed in the conspiracy world, you have to stop believing and disbelieving. You kind of see all these conspiracies on a spectrum some where between absolute truth and falsehood.

[TargeT]

I hear this one all the time:

There's this magical "force" that we can't really measure or describe it's origins, or... well almost anything to prove it's real, though we observe it..This "force" has caused fundamental shifts in knowledge and has framed the science of our age.

http://bigthink.com/videos/gravity-doesnt-exist

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/34zv8d/my_science_teacher_says_gravity_doesnt_exist/

https://www.newscientist.com/round-up/seven-things-that-dont-make-sense-about-gravity/

[Cardillac]

@Nick Matkin

A) read David Icke's research/books

B) read the research/books of Dr. Joseph Farrell/Peter Levenda/Jim Marrs/David McGowan, etc.

C )to top if off: read the David Paulides duo-volumn (plus subsequent sequal) "Missing411" about the unexplainable/bizarre human disappearances in the N. American wilderness and the subsequent cover-ups

that should be enough for one evening-

please stay well Nick and all readers-

Larry

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I think I see what you're driving at, so here's one.

The conspiracy theory that Paul McCartney was killed in a car crash in 1966, and was replaced by a lookalike. Still trying to wrap my head around that one. Think there are one or two threads about it on here somewhere.

[Nick Matkin]

That's the sort of thing I guess. Although not that easy to completely disprove without forensic evidence.

(I heard one about Mark Bolan dying in a car crash and was replaced by a looky-likey who also got killed in a car crash!)

Then there's the one about the Queen Mother being replaced at least twice...

I had more scientific conspiracies in mind.

[TargeT]

I had more scientific conspiracies in mind.

gravity? no? I thought I nailed it...

[Baby Steps]

well, there is the one about certain fried chicken companies putting chemicals into their products to make black men infertile.

there was one i read that said that Angela Merkel, the daughter of Hitler, was when a foetus, placed in a steel vessel next to an atom bomb test so her soul was extinguished and her body lived on.

i liked better the one about the Titanic actually being its sister ship that was deliberately sunk because it was structurally damaged, it was an insurance job allegedly.

i don't resonate with stuff about various people morphing into reptilians partially while on camera.

my brother came up with one recently. why are we by now not seeing a full hi res photo map of the moons surface? he thought this was because the landings were faked. I said more likely there are Alien and/or human structures there.

[Ewan]

https://truthernews.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/fast-and-furious-star-paul-walker-assassinated-by-obama-drone-strike/

Thought that one was out there; but the pictures of the car, doesn't seem to be a simple collision with a tree. :dontknowanything:

[Baby Steps]

I had more scientific conspiracies in mind.

gravity? no? I thought I nailed it...


ha ha if it can be said that our scientists have any theories about gravity, such as gravitons and other obvious piffle, i boggle that people fall for it. i also have reason to suspect the nutrinos are an invented particle, invented to account for a missing quantum of energy in certain reactions. i then get to laugh when they complain about how hard they are to detect! And what about dark matter? again it is dressing up a 'black hole' of ignorance as a 'thing' in an attempt to dignify their total lack of understanding!

[Meggings]

One of the purposes of this forum is to debate conspiracies. However, Bill and the mods give short thrift to some; the flat earth (supported by various ridiculous videos) and sightings of Nibiru/Planet-X (supported by photos of sun dogs and lens flares) are two that spring to mind....

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12548847_641192316023382_3823242396810956658_n.jpg?oh=997ab9e803e5cd22d342da6c80ddb201&oe=573EEB35

I for one do not consider all these, and other photos, to be lens flares. I posit for consideration the possibility that a planetary body can be "held" in a kind of stasis, in something one might consider a "gravity well", by scientific methods unknown to us on earth - in order to later release so that the damage to earth and other planets will be not so severe. As said in post #2 below, you have to stop believing and disbelieving. Wisdom can be in holding that all things are possible.

(I did not put this collage together, in which I see some duplicates and suspicious ones.)

[Bluegreen]

I know I'm out there, but this guy is really out there. According to Donald Marshall, he wrote most of the hit songs you've heard in the past twenty years simply to avoid getting raped at genetic cloning centers where the elite play their perverted sex & violence games with cloned (or real) children and adults. Lots of big names and depraved antics ... entertaining if nothing else ...

http://donaldmarshallrevolution.com

I'm convinced such cloning capabilities are in the PTB's bag of tricks ... maybe the purpose here is to get us to throw the baby out with the bathwater ... Or maybe its all true

:noidea:

[Bill Ryan]

I for one do not consider all these, and other photos, to be lens flares.

Yes. But the problem is that it doesn't matter what weird optical anomalies have caused these effects.

If this was something that was really there (a second, large, bright, celestial object next to our sun), then not only would the photographer see them, but they'd ALSO be seen either at the same time or within a handful of hours, by 7 billion other human beings. That doesn't happen.

And... do notice that all these effects ALWAYS happen at sunrise or sunset. Where does the second object go in the middle of the day when the sun's overhead?

(That's a serious question. Proposed serious answer: the atmospheric conditions change, so the second 'object' will disappear. If it's really there, it'll be there all the time.)

:focus:

[Mike]

Sheesh, so many..

-When I hear people saying that there are multiple Obama clones, I tend to tune out. It's just ridiculous.

-Pretty much every celebrity death is regarded as some illuninatti sacrifice. Its pretty silly. Of course I understand the suspicion, but in the conspiracy world no one can simply die of cancer or a drug overdose. It has to be illuminatti ninjas, black magic, or elaborate black ops technology.

-I don't know if this qualifies, but people like Greer and his supporters claiming there are only benevolent ET's...

-the hollow earth. I actually started a thread in semi support of this after reading the account of.admiral byrd. I say semi because I never bought into the idea of an inner sun and all that nonsense, but do believe in vast underground spaces, both man made and natural...

The list is endless...

[HaveBlue]

If those double sun are not photoshop hoaxes, and/or lens anomalies as I suspect, do consider how many and the shape of all those clear shiny things in those cameras including windows between your eye and the outside world. Maybe those pics are down to 'you had to be there'.

Bill Ryan did educate us all a few years ago with a brilliant photo of his own shadow on a cloud in a phenomenon called a Brocken Spector. (thanks Bill, it is one of my best memories of Avalon)

I have seen the moon and sun together many times during the day, and many amazing colours and light bouncing all over the place.

Along with Aurora Australis, the Southern Lights. Being where I am in Dunedin, Sth Is, NZ right at 45 deg sth and not alot of pollution, there are many treats of nature and tricks of light to enjoy. But not so often that any of it is mundane. Even rainbows!

Plus if you don't make the effort to go outside to look up, alot is missed by many, including me when I am asked, "did you see such and such".

I have even had an earthlight appear from the hill beside where I live. 2009 I think it was. Just after dark as I was pulling into my driveway and there it was right in front of only a couple of hundred meters away! The next morning there were reports of earthquake activity on the other side of the island 200 odd miles away in Fiordland, which is just what earth scientists say they are associated with,and are a piezo electric effect.

I could easily tell you all I saw a bright alien spacecraft exiting its base inside the mountain and then went cloaked or went transdimensional after it had travelled horizontally for 200m.

I wouldn't be lying per se, but my first version of that event is my preferred one, and the one I tell people.
I know, I can be a real 'stick in the mud' sometimes!

Being in the right place right time is enough for me to be excited. They are impossible to study scientifically, I guess the Hesdalen lights are the best efforts of such sorts of things to date.

But I have seen energy beings on one occasion when visiting a hospital,(auras with no person inside it) and my own 'silver cord' and 3 spinning middle chakras, and my own 3rd eye in a mirror that lasted a full 5 seconds on another occasion, so it's not like I don't know 'stuff' happens that some may have a hard time believing.
Why only 3? I do not know!

[Nick Matkin]

Thanks for your input Bill! I was in two minds even to mention it in case it derailed the thread. But now it's come up, I will point out just two things:

1) Odd these photos have appeared with the use of digital cameras - strongly suggesting they are digital camera artefacts.

2) Dash-cams pick up so much these days from amazing lightning strikes, weird night-time sky glows and even the occasional daylight meteors. No dash-cam videos of Nibiru. Now why would that be...?

Now back on topic...

[Nick Matkin]

The unbelievable conspiracy I heard was as follows:

I was at a small local alternative energy/UFO/paranormal discussion group. A chap I'll call Mike stated to us all that he knew why 'the government' wanted us to change to low-energy bulbs and have smart meters installed. It's because "the bulbs can control your mind via data sent to your smart meter". To ram this point home, he presented a broken compact fluorescent bulb (never mind the deadly mercury - if you believe the hype!), opened the bulb's base to reveal some electronic components. "There! See? Ordinary bulbs don't contain electronic components. They're spying on us all if we use these!".

The gullible gathering all nodded, wide-eyed in agreement. I tried to explain that the components were just there to generate the high voltage, low current required to make the bulb work. But I got suspicious, disbelieving stares. As far as they were concerned some Great Truth had been revealed; it ticked all their "suspicion of technology/the government wants to control us" boxes.

Mike then went on to explain that the electrical mains frequency (in Europe) is 52 Hz, "a frequency matching brainwaves and deliberately chosen to influence human behaviour".

Wrong. The mains frequency is VERY precisely kept at 50 Hz across Europe, and the highest "brain frequency" is about 40 Hz.

I explained the frequency of 50 Hz (60 Hz in most of the Americas) was a compromise between elimination flicker of incandescent bulbs (lighting being the major early use of electricity) and efficiency of power distribution to minimise transmission losses.

It was way over their heads. As technically unsophisticated, and with no concept of critical thinking, most of the group preferred the conspiracy angle.

From then on I realised there is a problem. The majority of the public - despite having attended school - have no scientific knowledge. When this is combined with the few who seriously question what goes on around them, crazy concepts like the Flat Earth theory start to take hold.

Perhaps this is a reason why there are only a few scientifically competent members of the forum who contribute to debates. As soon as an alternative explanation is provided, the crowd pooh-poohs it because it doesn't fit with their paradigm - despite Project Avalon being a place where "Science and Spirituality meet."

That's something I've been meaning to share on the forum for a while...

[mgray]

I been here for years and have seen it all -- or pretty close I guess.

I don't understand people who view their lives and events that occur around them as all being on the extreme tails of the Bell Curve?

America moves toward recession. No the central bank will call out the military to lock everyone up.

Zika virus: There's a plan to exterminate everyone per the Georgia Guide Stone.

It can't be a pleasant life to live under that spell.

There's a reason these events are on the tails of the Bell Curve. The possibility of happening is very slim.

I am aware of the tail's, but live and look at things through the prism of the middle of the curve.

Occam's razor is the philosophical principle I follow when deciphering most conspiracy theories.

I sleep much better that way

Cheers.

[TargeT]

there is a problem. The majority of the public - despite having attended school - have no scientific knowledge. When this is combined with the few who seriously question what goes on around them, crazy concepts like the Flat Earth theory start to take hold.

Perhaps this is a reason why there are only a few scientifically competent members of the forum who contribute to debates. As soon as an alternative explanation is provided, the crowd pooh-poohs it because it doesn't fit with their paradigm - despite Project Avalon being a place where "Science and Spirituality meet."

That's something I've been meaning to share on the forum for a while...


Looks like your faith in humanity is about as shaken as mine is ;)


I don't focus on the lack of scientific knowledge (though that is significant!) I'm more concerned about the total lack of critical thinking & applied logic. (I'm new to it and don't claim to be an expert either).


Even with limited scientific knowledge a critical thinker would not fall for "flat earth" crap or any of the other various wild conspiracies that suck in the gullible because nearly all of them so heavily rely on logical fallacies to "prove their points"(especially exacerbated due to the lack of physics/science understandings that would allow data based points and arguments).


My solution is based on my own experience: teach people to "love to learn" again (or, perhaps for the first time). I do not know how to achieve this goal however; I think a big part of it is rooted in "self work" being able to acknowledge the Ego & it's influence on thought patterns (how we can doggedly defend a position because our ego is invested) and what confirmation bias is and how it puts blinders on us if we don't stretch out and look into topics we normally would avoid.

I spent 4 hours on "flat earth" a few days ago... PAINFUL! but at least I got to see what their "evidence" is.. I even did some maths (rare for me!) and busted out the Pythagorean theorem to calculate the drop of the earth per mile (which turned out to be non-linear & the maths got complex... then I realized I was an idiot and just did a web search for it.... which then showed me the first 3 pages with WRONG formulas... ahhhrrrggg..)


So I grabbed a beer and went and played with my dogs.

[OMG]

I for one do not consider all these, and other photos, to be lens flares.

Yes. But the problem is that it doesn't matter what weird optical anomalies have caused these effects.

If this was something that was really there (a second, large, bright, celestial object next to our sun), then not only would the photographer see them, but they'd ALSO be seen either at the same time or within a handful of hours, by 7 billion other human beings. That doesn't happen.

And... do notice that all these effects ALWAYS happen at sunrise or sunset. Where does the second object go in the middle of the day when the sun's overhead?

(That's a serious question. Proposed serious answer: the atmospheric conditions change, so the second 'object' will disappear. If it's really there, it'll be there all the time.)

:focus:

Well, the obvious answer is the Sun faries bring in another sun at sunrise or sunset and on certain days only for certain people to see...what's the problem here??

:cheers:

[Hervé]

[...]
It was way over their heads. As technically unsophisticated, and with no concept of critical thinking, most of the group preferred the conspiracy angle.
[...]

Scapegoating has been a tool of misdirections for a very long, long while... like: it's all the witch fault anyway!

Taking the problem in reverse, there is a sense/perception that something is not right and which needs a culprit, real quick!

[Chris Gilbert]

It tends to pop up on Christian conspiracy sites like HenryMakow more than here, but the arguments that every new book/movie/TVshow/video game and the like is an elaborate manipulation crafted by Illuminati handlers has induced many an eye roll from me. Other theories like the aforementioned one about low-energy bulbs also come to mind.

There's definitely control from on top, but most negative day to day stuff in our lives is a product of normal human corruption and group thinking, the ones on top are moreso opportunists than all knowing chessmasters.

[Becky]

there is a problem. The majority of the public - despite having attended school - have no scientific knowledge. When this is combined with the few who seriously question what goes on around them, crazy concepts like the Flat Earth theory start to take hold.

Perhaps this is a reason why there are only a few scientifically competent members of the forum who contribute to debates. As soon as an alternative explanation is provided, the crowd pooh-poohs it because it doesn't fit with their paradigm - despite Project Avalon being a place where "Science and Spirituality meet."

That's something I've been meaning to share on the forum for a while...


Looks like your faith in humanity is about as shaken as mine is ;)


I don't focus on the lack of scientific knowledge (though that is significant!) I'm more concerned about the total lack of critical thinking & applied logic. (I'm new to it and don't claim to be an expert either).


Even with limited scientific knowledge a critical thinker would not fall for "flat earth" crap or any of the other various wild conspiracies that suck in the gullible because nearly all of them so heavily rely on logical fallacies to "prove their points"(especially exacerbated due to the lack of physics/science understandings that would allow data based points and arguments).


My solution is based on my own experience: teach people to "love to learn" again (or, perhaps for the first time). I do not know how to achieve this goal however; I think a big part of it is rooted in "self work" being able to acknowledge the Ego & it's influence on thought patterns (how we can doggedly defend a position because our ego is invested) and what confirmation bias is and how it puts blinders on us if we don't stretch out and look into topics we normally would avoid.

I spent 4 hours on "flat earth" a few days ago... PAINFUL! but at least I got to see what their "evidence" is.. I even did some maths (rare for me!) and busted out the Pythagorean theorem to calculate the drop of the earth per mile (which turned out to be non-linear & the maths got complex... then I realized I was an idiot and just did a web search for it.... which then showed me the first 3 pages with WRONG formulas... ahhhrrrggg..)


So I grabbed a beer and went and played with my dogs.

Apparently the flat earth society has members all around the globe....:ROFL:

[Lone Bean]

I've got a couple of conspiracy theories that I've been sort of grappling with lately.
The first one is about Stephen Hawking. Is he really the original Stephen Hawking or has he been replaced with a look-alike.

The other is about Michelle Obama. I'm beginning to lean to side that she really is a man named Michael Lavaughn Robinson.

I have others that I dwell on periodically, but for now these are my two soup du jour.

[KiwiElf]

The other is about Michelle Obama. I'm beginning to lean to side that she really is a man named Michael Lavaughn Robinson.



Oh wait,... there's more! ... one circulating on BIN is that Justin Bieber is really a girl... yeahhhh riiiite (I guess the person who started that one hasn't seen a girl lately! :ROFL:

http://beforeitsnews.com/celebrities/2015/02/irrefutable-proof-that-justin-bieber-is-a-woman-video-2472974.html