Marijuana, alcohol, hallucinogenics and other drugs and... demonic attention/possession

[Chester]

Hi,

I started to look at the odd circumstances that surround my life and other than my son, Anthony, and his young wife, Hollie, who are 100% drug and alcohol free due to prior circumstances in their lives, every single family member, ex-family member (due to divorce) and close friends are all involved with one or more drugs and in all cases alcohol as well (to me just another drug).

And what I have come to accept is that it is clear to me (and any un-emotionally attached observer) that each one of these folks are dealing with issues ranging from significant to severe to critically severe.

No - my post is not about bashing alcohol or weed or various natural mind expanding hallucinogenics or synthetic drugs or drugs made via human processing. These things exist and are a part of our world. Each individual is ultimately responsible for what they do and this includes any drugs they take or alcohol they drink.

No - it is not all and only the drugs or the booze that I am posting about here.

What I am posting about is my own observance that in each of the cases (including my own experiences in the past when I did mess with weed and/or booze and/or coke and/or hallucinogenics - as I have not any drugs or alcohol in over 4 years) I observe what seems to be behind the serious to severe to critically severe problems and my conclusion is that this is all and only what I would have to label as "demonic attention" all the way to "demonic possession."

So the point I am making here is that at least here on planet Earth and at least in these times, I find an obvious link between these types of activities and how open a human being may be to demonic influence at the least and full blown demonic possession (like Regan MacNeil in the movie The Exorcist and my own personal experiences) at the worst.

Besides my own experiences - note: I am 58 years old and have gone back over my life where I documented as best I could all the various jails and "rehabs" (where all but one where actually psychiatric facilities) I landed in and in each and every case... at the core of it all was my usage of drugs and often alcohol as one of the drugs.

Sadly though, despite how much I loved marijuana, I experienced for myself that long term heavy usage of high quality marijuana alone would play the primary role in the eventual onset of what is called "psychosis" but which I am certain is full blown demonic attention directed specifically at me. Please note I am not at all stating this is or would be the case for any other human being.

Now please read this next statement very clearly. I am 100% NOT against marijuana. I am completely for the ability for anyone who wishes to use marijuana (and the various bi-products that can come from marijuana) if they are of an age where they won't wreck their ability to mature and their ability to be positive for themselves, their loved ones and their community. I think marijuana should be legal everywhere.

For example - Peanuts are legal to grow and harvest and eat. I love peanuts. Many people love peanuts. Yet some folks have a peanut allergy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_allergy).


Peanut allergy is a type of food allergy due to peanuts. It is different from nut allergies. Physical symptoms of allergic reaction can include itchiness, urticaria, swelling, eczema, sneezing, asthma, abdominal pain, drop in blood pressure, diarrhea and cardiac arrest. Anaphylaxis may occur.

Just because peanuts can cause the above noted issues in some folks does not mean peanuts are bad or that peanuts should be made illegal or that peanuts should be condemned.

I see the same for marijuana yet... in my case, as if I have an allergy, I should not ever smoke marijuana because I have proven to myself that each time I started, I started doing it all the time and in each and every case this happened, I always went psychotic.

In other words, in each and every case, I opened myself to full blown demonic attention. In several of these cases I ended up physically injured and the last time this happened, I almost "went all the way."

It is my opinion that folks who recognize that they are targeted by or at least open themselves to demonic attention whereby they also can see this demonic attention increases in instances and profundity when they use any type of drug or alcohol or combinations thereof... that these folks accept the reality of their situation and take any and all measures necessary to stop assisting the demonic attention.

This does not mean that someone who is targeted in this way will eliminate the attention but I can state from my own experience that only by remaining totally and completely alcohol, marijuana and all other mind altering or mind expanding drugs free am I able to deal with the demonic attention such that I am in charge of me and not one or more demons.

[Chip]

Thank you for your sharing. Very good read, and I agree 100%.
I'm surrounded by friends that use various drugs. And yes alcohol is a drug and IMO one of the worst.
I have friends that use Marijuana to help at night with sleep and tension. I notice that many of them if not all that use it as if it were a medicine, are getting benefit. Then I have friends that use marijuana 24/7 around the clock and find them quite erratic and irrational many times.
I went through a period of what I would call alcohol abuse but what an alcoholic would consider lite abuse. I did not like the separation it made me feel with my conscious self.
I don't drink anymore. I get my high when I pick up my guitar or when I spend times outdoors in nature and many other ways that could fill this reply post.
I agree that being under the influence has the potential to open someone to negative energies. I also feel that there are many people that are aware and awake enough to allow protection from these dark forces when under the influence (primarily MJ, alcohol- good luck with that!)
Thanks again for sharing
Chip

[Chester]

I also feel that there are many people that are aware and awake enough to allow protection from these dark forces when under the influence (primarily MJ, alcohol- good luck with that!)


Thanks Chipsam for the great post.

Surely (well at least I want to believe) that there are folks who are capable of ingesting drugs and/or alcohol who are able to handle it well enough. There may be folks who do so and in fact interact in some way or another with the broader group I prefer to label as "archontic forces." Many who do the ayahuasca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca) share their experiences in only a good light. I am also aware of exceptions and in some cases quite tragic. Again, I am not at all implying folks should not have access to these things.

My thread is meant to focus upon those who do partake, who end up having experiences they regret and which they (or qualified others) may conclude these experiences are of demonic origins (or originate from dark forces, or that I might call "the dark archontic forces") yet then find themselves going back for more and more of these substances where then their serious, negative experiences increase such they they experience true harm to themselves and/or end up harming others.

If individuals find themselves in that group, I can only recommend to them that they at least stop with the substances so that they raise their chances of success in dealing with the real, underlying issue - demonic targeting.

[Chester]

Part of my inspiration for creating this thread stems from my current experience with my oldest son, Stephen. I posted in another thread about his situation yet I could easily have posted it here. In fact, if I am asked to move that post here, I would be happy to.

Here's the post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88803-Depressed-Beyond-Whatever-I-d-Experienced-Prior&p=1047833#post1047833)

[william r sanford72]

hay sam..wanted to relate the very last time I drank...the hard stuff..vodka believe it was.
it was 18 years ago and remember it vividly..
my wife was 9 months preg with our oldest..i began drinking early in the evening when about half way through the bottle I blacked out.
I didn't drink often and preferred narcos and such over the booze..for much of the same reason as posted above.
While in this blackout I left the home stead at some point and proceeded to go mad..atleast at first that's what I thought when told what I had done that night..as the night progressed I some how made my way across town to a house where I apparently started banging on the door asking and begging for help..waking the family up and scaring the **** outta em.of course they called the police...when they found me I was sitting in a strangers car sitting in front of the house I had been knocking and banging on...I was taking to the police station still in a full blown blackout..they sat me down and began reading my rights and charges...minor charges thank the gods...anyways as the officers is reading these to me not knowing im not realy there I began to regain consciousness except im looking down at my own body..at the cop and the office.scared...when all of a sudden I feel rather then see my body gettn closer real fast then..nothing ..then WHAM!!!im sitting in the chair and im looking out my own eyes at this cop talking to me..reading out my charges...I asked the cop to stop talking and please repeat every thing he had said prior...and my god what had I done????..something about the change in my demeanor prompted him to pause for a moment and then repeat what he had just gone over...
I spent a very long nite in jail..ashamed and frightend...and vowed to never drink the hard stuff again..the charges were minor and I didn't hurt know one...whew..first and last blackout..lesson learned.
now the strange part that I didn't learn about until a week latr was the house I had been drawn to in the blackout..the family had just lost there youngest son to an overdose 2 days prior..it was his car the cops found me in...
as is...thanks for letting me share sam and tolerating my crappy writing skills..
and tend to agree with your op on the basis of my last brush with booze..

William.and tribe

[Catsquotl]

Took me long enough..
But booze and meat free since new years eve, other drugs for over 17 years by now and nicotine free for 9 days and 53 minutes..

Not because i suddenly decided it was all evil, but because i saw how (especially booze) is really a personality changer. And never for the better.

With Love
Eelco

[Ernie Nemeth]

Well, isn't this an odd coincidence. This, other than the drug angle, is exactly what I am working on right now, again, for the umpteenth time.

I am fascinated by the negative interference thrown at me - and more than a bit frustrated.

I am at the place where I am seeing my hand in the mix, finally. Even though this seeming bad luck spans chunks of time, taking time to make the connections that in some future place and time will come together to bust up my day, I had no evidence to consider I might be causing this time travelling co-incidental life buster. But as the decades wear on I can see a pattern emerging that has my hand written all over it.

I so wanted it to be alien possession or some higher malevolent being having some fun at my expense. Even hyper-dimensional critters seemed favorable. At least then I'd have an enemy to focus on. But if it was me doing this thing to myself, well, then I'd have no choice but to blame myself. And then what? Go to war with myself? But that is exactly what I did. I warred with my ego, until the realization that this was a war I couldn't win.

So I went back to ferreting out the critter or creature or intelligence that had it in for me. I have lain blame on every imaginable antagonist, but none have stood up and claimed ownership of my misery.

And then recently I had an idea. What if I really am this powerful being trapped in this body and with no direct memory of my former glory? What if I control reality but don't know it - and even actively hide the knowledge from myself?

So I looked for this activity - the hiding from myself of my own complicity in altering events. At first I saw nothing, felt nothing. But before long the evidence began to mount. I could just about see my hand in my affairs, jiggling thoughts and potentialities and actually timing events to occur - and waiting for them or hurrying to intersect the occurrence at the pre-set time. Now I understand that I am not only effecting matter but time as well. It is the time aspect that makes it so hard to see the connections. I do one thing today and it doesn't immediately bite me in the ass. No. It swirls around in potential and accumulates more intentional acts, then when all is in place, a week or month or year later, the whole thing crashes down on my head.

As so many here have said, in so many different ways, as even I have said from time to time: you are at cause of your own life.

And then there is destiny to take into account. Are some destined to greatness. It sure seems that way. But if some are, most must not be. Most must be but destined for mediocrity. What if I fight against my destiny? What if what I want, destiny says I can't have? That question takes a great deal of soul-searching because it is at the heart of the issue. You can't alter destiny but you can alter fate. Destiny is like a plan or a road. It is the organizing points of a life planned out before birth, they cannot be altered because destiny defines you. Without those defining moments of destiny, you would not be you.

In the end, or I should say where I am now, I have learned of my destiny and made peace with it. Now I learn to control my own reality.

I understand now that I have created this situation for my own benefit. I laid the trail of crumbs so I could find them. And I have followed them to their source. It is me, I am to blame. Not aliens, not gods, not critters, not society and not fellow travellers - and not drugs! Me and only me.

Now I learn to forgive myself and through me all others I have incorrectly blamed.

You know what? Forgiveness is harder than setting blame. Much harder.

That leads to the final observation that I must stop externalizing. It is in my internal dialog that has me in thrall. Not a thought is thought that does not go out and seek to blame an external source - continuously. This is my job now - to correct this internal dialog that tries to crucify me at every turn. It is a constant battle. But it is a battle that has already produced reinforcing effects.

I know it is natural to find a cause for all aberrant behavior. They say that drug abusers are searching for something, they know not what. They also say drug abusers are working on abandonment issues. I say they are searching for themselves and working on why they are here, apparently abandoned by their maker.

It is a pickle...

[zen deik]

Perhaps its not a mistake strong drink was called spirits...

[ZooLife]

Marijuana, alcohol, hallucinogenics and other drugs are hints to the answer but they are not or will they ever be the answer.

From a psychological perspective, drugs become a problem when they are viewed as an answer (to).......

[Chester]

Lot's to respond to - all great posts, especially the openness and honesty.

As for my tying in of what I referred to as "demonic" or my preferred actual word which reveals my actual view - "archontic" I need to make things as clear as possible.

The first thing is that I only have my own experience. What my experience may suggest and/or what I may conclude about these experiences may lead me to adopt what I call - "an operational assumption." Any operational assumption I might adopt I view as only temporarily true all and only for myself. I have arrived at this protocol by making many mistakes as to deciding upon assumptions about myself as if they were an eternal truth and worse, assuming this would be eternally true for others and sometimes all others.

So all I have written in this thread is all and only current operational assumptions.

The first and most important operational assumption relates to "who I am" and at every level of my being. The answer to who I am is different depending on the level of my being I am referring to. The view I have is anchored by the same view one might extract from Advaita Vedanta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta). Just as importantly is my view that I am Sam Hunter, this one life. The former is an operational assumption I acquired via a process I call apprehension. The later is the common view most of us share about ourselves and a view I could say is not an operational assumption, it is something I know no less than I know I am typing on a black Logitech keyboard at this moment.

My third view as to who I am should really be stated as "who I hope I am." This again is an operational assumption. This third view is that I am an individuated spirit which exists now, will exist after the death of my physical body and likely existed prior to this current physical body's birth.

The reason I wrote all the above is to prepare the reader for my responses specifically to Ernie Nemeth's outstanding post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88988-Marijuana-alcohol-hallucinagentics-and-other-drugs-and...-demonic-attention-possession&p=1047863&viewfull=1#post1047863) above.

Before I respond to Ernie there is one more thing level I see as actually one of tow sub levels within the level of "individuated spirit."

The first sub level is all and only that - an individuated spirit.

The second sub level is the individuated spirit that entered into what is well described in terragunn's thread, The Game: The Computational Matrix (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85386-The-Game-The-Computation-Matrixhttp://) as well as Truman Cash's thread, Matrix Revealed -- Analysis and Solutions (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?52786-MATRIX-REVEALED-Analysis-Solutions) and IMO the most important thread on the entire forum, Houman's thread -
Horus-Ra as the Archontic Alien Parasite: A follow-up interview with Maarit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit)

The premise is that individuated spirits entered into a collectively generated paradigm where two primary levels exist. One is incarnation into a physical body that perceptively exists in a physical reality. The other is the the individuated spirit finds itself upon death of the body (and perhaps during astral experiences, OBEs and NDEs as well) where the being is met by tricksters that usually succeed in convincing the being to incarnate once again. Of course, there's the memory wipe but also there is the "karma" held within the thing some refer to as "the soul" best described by terragunn in his OP.

Yes, this is potentially complex yet I found that after being a member of Avalon for over 4 years now and having spent more time than exists studying what we I have been experiencing along with investigating all these various views and once again I find myself back again to the very premise put forth by many who posted in Houman's thread, specifically Amzer Zo (now Herve), the e-books of Truman Cash and his many posts and PMs and for the life of me, the only explanation that makes sense of the senselessness of this world is found in these materials.

So... to Ernie Nemeth and his comments that


As so many here have said, in so many different ways, as even I have said from time to time: you are at cause of your own life.


I fully agree... from the level of my being which is the All that Is and then the level of my being I call the individuated spirit that somehow agreed to entering into this "game." Yet I must say that at the level of my one life as Sam Hunter, there is the full blown experience of "me" and "not me" and within that set which is "not me" is some nasty critters as you called them which seem to enjoy feeding of my emotional output and frankly, this is not fun and worse is knowing that at the more primary level of my being, I created these beings! Uggghhhh

So all the words above were meant to make one point and one point only.

How I have made great strides in dealing with the attention Sam Hunter has gotten (and still gets) from the dark forces is by working very hard to "Know Thyself."

For only in actually knowing myself and knowing what each level of my being is dealing with and/or created can I possibly do anything about it.

And lastly and the most important point of the thread is this. If one finds themselves experiencing what they cannot explain and which they certainly do not like and that they can clearly see what they are experiencing is other worldly and negative, the last thing they should do is throw gas on the fire by using any form of drugs or alcohol.

I am finding that so many of the folks I have come to know through this community who also seem to suffer from negative attention of the dark forces also indulge in the very activities which amplifies access these critters have to their sovereignty and peace of mind.

[norski]

Hi Sam,
Thank you for your excellent post. When I was young In the 70s and 80s, I partied hard but always felt in control. As I've grown older, I drink rarely. On one occasion last year, In the midst of a pity party, I had several shots of whiskey on top of sleep medication. I was literally overcome by the desire to kill myself. I have never been suicidal nor in a frame of mind where I felt I wasn't myself. If it wasn't for my strong and loving husband, I might not be here today.

I am absolutely convinced l was under the influence of a negative entity. I had absolutely no fear of death. The push to act was unbelievable. And, without being more specific, I was damn close. My husband risked his own life to save mine.

It bothers me to this day. I have sworn off all alcohol and prescription medications.

I watched a YouTube video about the Santelli telescope that uses a convex lens versus a concave lens. He captures multiple images of various shapes, lights and colors in the sky that appear to act with intent. The producer of the video said that all of these entities are demonic in nature. I don't buy resist fear-based belief systems. HOWEVER, I do believe there are evil entities who feed off of human death and destruction. Much to learn.

I think you can actively or passively invite negative entities into your world. Humans are so materialistic that they laugh off evil influences. Bottom line, to me, is garbage in garbage out. Simplistic, I know. There are people who seem to be victims without invitation. To those poor souls I can only extend whatever help and compassion I can extend. But, for those of us, through our stupidity dance with the devil, we are blessed if we get a second chance.

[ZooLife]

I don't think drugs are anymore a problem then the ego that demonizes them. This is one of the many tricks the ego does to falsely elevate itself. Conversely one would be remiss in elevating a drug (or anything else for that matter) as the answer.

In a way we all take a drug called life. Even though I know what it is and what it does I am still a bit addicted to it. Okay, maybe a LOT, ....... denial, go figure.

I know, I know..... I am weak. ;)

https://38.media.tumblr.com/cbf87ee526c5c4d704600d2a43986c76/tumblr_inline_o0xcbqTv2s1s8umjm_500.gif

[Chester]

I don't think drugs are anymore a problem then the ego that demonizes them. This is one of the many tricks the ego does to falsely elevate itself. Conversely one would be remiss in elevating a drug (or anything else for that matter) as the answer.

In a way we all take a drug called life. Even though I know what it is and what it does I am still a bit addicted to it. Okay, maybe a LOT, ....... denial, go figure.

I know, I know..... I am weak. ;)



I hope you see I wasn't demonizing drugs or alcohol... I was attempting to point out how they can open one who is experiencing the issues I cited in my posts to worsening their problems. Others happened to point out how by opening themselves via this method can sometimes invite quite disastrous consequences.

[ZooLife]

I don't think drugs are anymore a problem then the ego that demonizes them. This is one of the many tricks the ego does to falsely elevate itself. Conversely one would be remiss in elevating a drug (or anything else for that matter) as the answer.

In a way we all take a drug called life. Even though I know what it is and what it does I am still a bit addicted to it. Okay, maybe a LOT, ....... denial, go figure.

I know, I know..... I am weak. ;)



I hope you see I wasn't demonizing drugs or alcohol... I was attempting to point out how they can open one who is experiencing the issues I cited in my posts to worsening their problems. Others happened to point out how by opening themselves via this method can sometimes invite quite disastrous consequences.

I was speaking of the big picture, not you or what you said specifically, Sam.

If what I share doesn't resonate with the reader I encourage them to let it continue flying south for the winter. That is why there are season's of the sun.

[zen deik]

Scott Peck wrote"People of the lie" you might find interesting...

[Chester]

I don't think drugs are anymore a problem then the ego that demonizes them. This is one of the many tricks the ego does to falsely elevate itself. Conversely one would be remiss in elevating a drug (or anything else for that matter) as the answer.

In a way we all take a drug called life. Even though I know what it is and what it does I am still a bit addicted to it. Okay, maybe a LOT, ....... denial, go figure.

I know, I know..... I am weak. ;)



I hope you see I wasn't demonizing drugs or alcohol... I was attempting to point out how they can open one who is experiencing the issues I cited in my posts to worsening their problems. Others happened to point out how by opening themselves via this method can sometimes invite quite disastrous consequences.

I was speaking of the big picture, not you or what you said specifically, Sam.

If what I share doesn't resonate with the reader I encourage them to let it continue flying south for the winter. That is why there are season's of the sun.

I was only hoping the thread would not be derailed as this, for me, is quite a serious matter and seems to be for many other contributors.

For example - (here) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88803-Depressed-Beyond-Whatever-I-d-Experienced-Prior&p=1047833&viewfull=1#post1047833) - This is the current significant reason this subject is important for me. Based on what I read in most of the other posts, this appears equally important for others so I am just asking respectfully if we could stay on subject.

[ZooLife]

I did not realize the picture you painted was complete from your perspective.

http://dailyserving.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Unfinished-Painting1989.jpg


https://media.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/giphy.gif

[Chester]

I think you can actively or passively invite negative entities into your world. Humans are so materialistic that they laugh off evil influences. Bottom line, to me, is garbage in garbage out. Simplistic, I know. There are people who seem to be victims without invitation. To those poor souls I can only extend whatever help and compassion I can extend. But, for those of us, through our stupidity dance with the devil, we are blessed if we get a second chance.

Indeed and wow, what a story.

I am sadly all to familiar with the subject. My father (yes... via pills) in 1979 when I was age 21. But the worst was when the following happened...

I had been married ten years to Mandy and we had three excellent sons. I had a great career going, founded and owned a rapidly growing and successful company and this was all on the lovely desert island of Curacao. We had a beautiful family, friends, home and just a beautiful life. Mandy and a few friends decided to go to the US for a few weeks and drive around the west.

It was sometime in October 1999. I was alone and decided to watch the movie (recommended by Mandy) - "What Dreams May Come." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Dreams_May_Come_%28film%29)

Suddenly the phone rang and it was Mandy's friend, Gisella. I still remember her words.

"Chester, I don't know any other way to say this... Mandy just tried to kill herself."

It turned out that she had recently gone to a doctor (and I was totally unaware of this) who diagnosed her as depressed or something and gave her a big script of anti-depressants and some anxiety medication. She also had been drinking and while one of her two friends were driving while she was in the backseat, she emptied the bottles into her mouth and swallowed them all. She survived but when she returned to the island, she attempted suicide three more times. Finally in early 2000 she was back in the states where she was supposed to get some psychiatric care and instead attempted this same thing for the 5th time.

I was in a board meeting when I got the call. I said to myself, "if she wants to die that bad... then I guess I must accept it" and finished the meeting (maybe 10 minutes or so). I then rushed home and got in the corner of our bedroom and ramped up my energy pleading to the universe... "Don't die, baby... please, don't die."

The doctor spoke with me a few hours later. Essentially what he said was - "Mr. Hunter... your wife was dead. I was in the corner writing up the final report, the staff was putting things away and straightening up the room while we waited for the guys downstairs to come take her body when... she suddenly gasped and rose straight up from the hips and eyes wide open and we rushed back over to her and well... she's alive."

Note: each attempt happened with pills and yet also, she had been using marijuana heavily and also each time had been drinking alcohol (though I don't know that for sure for this last attempt).

She survived again and was transferred to Timberlawn Psychiatric Hospital. Three weeks later I get a call from Mandy. "Hi honey... I am fine now and ready to come home." Her voice sounded like someone else. Almost as if what happened never happened.

As it turned out, my now ex-wife Mandy did come home... but I swear something else came with her and whatever it was, it was now driving the bus. Within 15 months I was experiencing a full on Book of Job style meltdown. I barely survived and sadly to save myself I had to divorce "her." I recall when my attorney told me that I was one in a million. I asked him what he meant and he said - "For a man to get full custody of his kids in the Dutch legal system is a one in a million shot."

But trust me... this didn't happen because I was some saint. This happened because that's how messed up she got and remained for years roaming the streets of Curacao until another quite demonic (tragic) event ironically saved her life and caused her to be deported back to the US.

Sometimes I feel like Constantine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_%28film%29).

norski... I understand your story all too well and I hope you stay vigilant.

[Calz]

Beautiful people all.

Serious topic big time.

This should be the last topic for ... disagreement.


So many suffering and in need of help.


Yes?

[Catsquotl]

Over the last couple of years already I've become more and more intrigued by the Buddha's wisdom.
In trying to live by the 5 precepts the 5th of which is the withholding of taking intoxicants made it very clear to me how I didn't see anything wrong with moderate daily alcohol use. Having had to make a very emotional devastating choice regarding a family members intake of alcohol late 2015 I realized that most if not all ugly arguments i had with people were somehow fueled by some of the parties (very often my own) alcohol intake.

Not that i was flat out drunk and unreasonable, but after having even a beer or 2 if I did get into an argument it tended to become more of a struggle and nasty than without.
I'm unsure whether evil entities are involved. As for other drughs. I have been continually stoned on marijuana between ages 14 ad 24.

Now this hasn't caused me that many problems I think. (24 was 20 years ago), But it did put me in a position later in life where I encountered " stuff" I have to label as puberty trouble. As if it set in waay later that usual. Also I find it harder to enjoy experieces than most. When digging into the cause of that is that I compare experiences to the same kind of experieces when I was stoned/high. Guess which ones in my memory feel more intense/real?

It is/has taken a long time to adjust my expectations and tune into the subtle, gentle feel of real awake experiences.

With Love
Eelco

[Alpha141]

Terrence McKenna is a teacher i love re this topic as he gets into the drugs soicety supports increase the trouble in it while the beneficial instruments are the most highly restricted...so it goes in part along your theme potentially here:

E_i0NndaVKs

From what i have observed is that many of these substances have a component that amplifies the truth and subconscious of an individual. ie, efforts to suppress past traumas that are offered via them a way to being revealed into the consciousness. That is why many substances are healing. It is the courage to face it. There is a significant absence of this appreciation in our present reality. And, these things can be the hooks' that cause many of the issues people have with them. There absolutely is the 'entity' aspect out there. As, nativity relative to that aspect can lead to trouble. It is more likely the person may have ancestral karma and dna / blood type (RH- especially) based on family crest lineage aspects within their skin suit (dna history and combination) that make them conducive to interference. Being aware and respectful of many more aspects that society is appreciative is important.

Just some things to offer. Great thread all. Cheers

[zen deik]

Intoxicants used addiction style... Daily.... Stunts emotional growth,dealing with feelings by escaping them takes many forms. It's like escaping your unplesant reality temporarly ,and prehaps prevents a lot of suicides in the first place"self medication".it is a multifaceted problem for sure.

[Pam]

I have had a room mate for many years. He has not used drugs or alcohol during that time. When MMJ became legal he began smoking it on a regular basis. After several months of intense use he began to transform. He would literally become so enraged at some imagined event that his eyes literally turned totally black. It was really terrifying. Most of the rage was triggered at me and the evil in the room was palpable. I swear, he had a totally different look and feel about him. All I can say was that it felt very,very evil. This was a complete change of personality and it was terrifying. When he quit using, the episodes stopped.

Its difficult to say if this was just pychosis, or some sort of possession, but due to the evil nature of the transformation I am thinking it might be the latter.

[Bill Ryan]

Yes. Important stuff. :clapping:

If you throw a party in your house on Main Street and leave the door wide open, then not only will your friends come in... but all kinds of others, who may not be your friends at all.

And then once in, they may never leave.

[Chester]

Over the last couple of years already I've become more and more intrigued by the Buddha's wisdom.
In trying to live by the 5 precepts the 5th of which is the withholding of taking intoxicants made it very clear to me how I didn't see anything wrong with moderate daily alcohol use. Having had to make a very emotional devastating choice regarding a family members intake of alcohol late 2015 I realized that most if not all ugly arguments i had with people were somehow fueled by some of the parties (very often my own) alcohol intake.

Not that i was flat out drunk and unreasonable, but after having even a beer or 2 if I did get into an argument it tended to become more of a struggle and nasty than without.
I'm unsure whether evil entities are involved. As for other drughs. I have been continually stoned on marijuana between ages 14 ad 24.

Now this hasn't caused me that many problems I think. (24 was 20 years ago), But it did put me in a position later in life where I encountered " stuff" I have to label as puberty trouble. As if it set in waay later that usual. Also I find it harder to enjoy experieces than most. When digging into the cause of that is that I compare experiences to the same kind of experieces when I was stoned/high. Guess which ones in my memory feel more intense/real?

It is/has taken a long time to adjust my expectations and tune into the subtle, gentle feel of real awake experiences.

With Love
Eelco

Another excellent post -

You have questioned so many of the same things I have come to question and you make several of the same observations I have made. From the over one dozen "rehab" experiences I have had, what you are saying is very much what I heard in those facilities. Of the over 1,000 AA and NA meetings I have been to, again... these same things I have heard.

Yet, sadly what many of us have also experienced with psychiatry/psychology is a closed paradigm. Even in AA/NA the "power greater than yourself that can restore you to sanity" is presented such that this power is external... like some third party and - IT IS! Yet, what I discovered for myself that this power is only external from the level of my being of, Sam, this one life... Sam's story and... perhaps external of my being when my body dies and I somehow, once again, am convinced to return to the material realm.

And hey... don't read that I am implying we should not. My opinion only - each spirit being has the full right to chose whatever experiences they desire to chose and I hope that each being who does so simply follows the suggested guideline of "do no harm."

How I have discovered "relief" from the issues is that I choose to adopt as an operational assumption that there is a level of my being that is greater than the realms (regions) I chose to assume I assisted in creating where all the drama resides. I choose to believe that I participated in creating the very inorganic beings which have emerged as the "wardens/guards of these regions and that they are all and only mental constructs which have taken on a life of their own, have achieved self awareness and have acquired the desire to continue their now individuated existences and who have decided that the energy which sustains their life is derived from the human energetic outputs of emotion and the sexual energy we produce.

From the level of my being where I take responsibility for finding myself in this quite incredible world where upon death of the body I now find myself again in a self (collectively) created world which is filled with "beings, though inorganic" which do all they can to turn me back again and again to become the ground and the water and the sunlight and the nutrients from which what will spring forth is the bearer of the fruit of which "they" eat... that I have taken on this operational assumption and via the implications of this assumption (if true) have discovered some quite successful ways to deal with it all (especially considering how the changes I made positively effect my loved ones, friends and those I encounter in the various communities in which I participate)...

Is why I desire to share these things... along with my story, on this forum.

As to "demonics" I wish to clarify my view of all of this if possible and make the most important point of all about it.

If "I" (and all other "I"s such as each reader of this thread and of course all other "spirit beings" - or what Scientology seems to refer to as Thetans) find myself anchored in an experiential realm whereby I experience "others" who sometimes appear to act in ways that clearly are not "the one I feel I know," where I experience thoughts that I look back upon and fell "these thoughts are not me, they cannot have come from me... that in the world I wake into each morning is the idea of "demonic attention," "demonic possession," then I must accept that within the collective mind of the beings I share Earth with, is these ideas. And ideas quite often take form and appear to take on a "life" of their own.

Yet as Castenada suggests, Anton Wilson too, as can be interpreted from the discovered Gnostic literature that dates a few thousand years and may be based on lore handed down for thousands of years, lore that is quite similarly found handed down in many of the indigenous cultures, we (at the physical reality realm experience as well as what many like to call "the astral") that there are indeed these influences that have individuated, formed, come to self awareness and developed their own sentiency and that their existence is relegated all to the world of "the mind."

There was a thread here I recall - something like - They Gave Us Their Mind... that explains the concept well.

enfoldedblue posted in another thread where she makes this same presentation clearly. [Here]
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85386-The-Game-The-Computation-Matrix&p=1046717&viewfull=1#post1046717)

Also in this same thread, the thread creator, terragunn, goes very far in suggesting that we be careful not to fall for the "demons vs angels paradigm" considering the very real possibility that "the angels" are just as much a part of the overall "archontic overlay" as "the demons."

For years I entertained this "war in heaven and on Earth for souls" and always there would be some dramatic climax where my world seemed to crumble. I felt like a pinball in a pinball machine where one flipper was managed by the "dark ones" and the other was managed by "the Beings of Light." Yet now, my current operational assumption is that the "Beings of Light" are all and only representatives of false light.

Terragunn makes another excellent point. As a spirit being, what could I possibly lack? I thought about this and saw his point. What sense is made that I was created by a supposedly loving "god thing" whereby I must spend eons upon eons of senseless suffering so that I could "learn," so I could "grow" or so I could "evolve?"

Could this "god thingie" simply wish for me to "think this?"

I hope my posts are causing some folks to ask themselves these questions.

[Chester]

Terrence McKenna is a teacher i love re this topic as he gets into the drugs soicety supports increase the trouble in it while the beneficial instruments are the most highly restricted...so it goes in part along your theme potentially here:

From what i have observed is that many of these substances have a component that amplifies the truth and subconscious of an individual. ie, efforts to suppress past traumas that are offered via them a way to being revealed into the consciousness. That is why many substances are healing. It is the courage to face it. There is a significant absence of this appreciation in our present reality. And, these things can be the hooks' that cause many of the issues people have with them. There absolutely is the 'entity' aspect out there. As, nativity relative to that aspect can lead to trouble. It is more likely the person may have ancestral karma and dna / blood type (RH- especially) based on family crest lineage aspects within their skin suit (dna history and combination) that make them conducive to interference. Being aware and respectful of many more aspects that society is appreciative is important.

Just some things to offer. Great thread all. Cheers

Excellent post and I thank you for making it. I am certainly no authority when it comes to what may be true for others. I can only offer my own experience. This post from Alpha141 is the post I have been waiting for to share this.

I have no doubt that if it were not for all the alcohol and drug experiences I had in my life, odds are very high I would be nothing but a stark, raving 5 senser materialist. If it were not for the mind expansion experiences, I would never have looked deeply as to "who/what I am." Also, if it were not for marijuana, I am certain I would have never had the amount of and profundity of experiences which provided me first hand knowledge of so much that is beyond the 5 sense reality. Because of the fact that Sam Hunter is still alive today in this same physical body and that I now have so much more experience with all of this and that, frankly, my daily experience (even when dark) is quite magical and simultaneously with the grounded experience of this world, also very other-worldly... from the selfish perspective here, I have zero regrets as to all the drugs I took, booze I drank and all the difficulties and horrible experiences these substances played a role in creating.

Yet in being fully honest, I have deep regret because of the harm I did to others.

Having said this - if I could wave the magic wand, I would suddenly find myself in a world of incarnate beings where we are all on the same page with regards to substances, how they can be used in positive ways and that we might avoid creating harmful drugs via synthesis and processing. I heard Graham Hancock call many of these substances that are found in nature as - "Visionary Plants" and I like that reference. Yet it is interesting to note (if my information is correct) that about 4 or so years ago, after having smoked marijuana pretty much day and night for much of his life, Graham Hancock quit. I also saw a video which I believe was made in 2015 where, after having stayed 100% away from marijuana for 3 or so years, he smoked a joint again right there on the video.

So what's my point?

My position on it all is this. These plants (and other natural ways to produce mind expanding substances - for example "frog venom") are a clear and natural part of our world. These substances can facilitate some amazing experiences whereby we can broaden our open mindedness and discover things about the overall "reality" that we may never discover otherwise. In addition, by so doing, we... at our 5 sense, material realm, body level of experience can open that level of our being to other "beings" which may make our 5 sense, material realm, body level of experience much more difficult. This could lead us to harming others and ourselves.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all be informed about all this as children and that all of society was all on the same page? Perhaps then we could turn the tables on malevolent "other worldly" beings without having to throw away the opportunity to experience in physicality in order to achieve a more positive, more enjoyable, universally for all experience.

[Carmody]

It's akin to a Teflon mountain.

We keep sliding down one side or the other, and it's nearly impossible to balance on the top. Full on use --- or zero use.

Balanced intake?

Good luck with that.......

[Praxis]

This is a personal choice. If you chose not to partake. Lovely, your choice. If others choose to do so, that is their right. That is what freedom means.

I am puzzled by the picking and choosing of which drug is good and which is bad. Sugar, alcohol, and caffeine are drugs, yet most of the people here are not talking about the demonic possession of people who need that morning joe. In fact, at least as far as im aware, bread is basically sugar for the body. Your body treats bread, which when ingested turns into basically sugar, as sugar. So we could add bread to that list. The person who wants to condemn drugs should be eating beans and rice and salad of fresh vegetables.

I would argue, and Im not discounting the possibility of beings unseen having a hand in it, that our world is so psychologically unstable and incoherent that many of these substances actually remove the ability to pretend to have coherence. This is not the drug causing it, it is merely revealing what is already there. I am reminded of the Richard Alpert story, at least that is who i think it was, about giving heavy doses of LSD to the yogi in india and then the yogi not being affected whatsoever. Why do you suppose that was? I am sure you are familiar with as above so below, as within so it is without. We are reflections of that around us. The psychopathy that is hidden by the facade of normality is often revealed when perturbed(like by a substance or meditation or some other method). When you focus on the fire and dont look at the gunpowder, you will have a misguided understanding of the explosion.

[Ernie Nemeth]

About that Teflon mountain: there's an inverted mountain just above it - where gravity acts backward. That's the state we seek. Can't balance on top of this reality in this society because this society has no ground, no base, no foundation.

Agree with full on or not at all, though. Take the full ride and right on out the other side. Thing is, some drugs take years to ride from end to end. And some an entire lifetime, pre-shortened or no.

And yes, pretty much anything ingested is a drug, as it alters the biochemistry of the body in some manner or another. Bread is my staple, learned from parents who lived through a war. Bread fills the belly fast and easy and no hunger pains - even if you're not getting enough nutrients otherwise.

For the most part, demon possession requires an act of will. That is, a possession cannot happen without the victim's prior agreement. Thing is the agreement might be presented in false form, disguised to seem other than it truly is. In such a situation, approval is temporary and is null and void the moment the victim realizes their mistake. There can still be a lot of smoke and mirrors, aka drama, to keep the victim in acquiescence. But the deal is off if the victim re-establishes their will in opposition to the possession. Same goes for all outside interference. Best to acknowledge the problem, reassert the will, perhaps do some rituals to strengthen conviction, and allow Source to work out the details.

[Catsquotl]

This is a personal choice. If you chose not to partake. Lovely, your choice. If others choose to do so, that is their right. That is what freedom means.
.

With Alcohol more than with sugar people that don't use it are often hurt by the free choice alcohol use of others.
We can say they were just dickheads, But I dare to state alcohol made them do it to a large degree.

And of course we all know the sugar rushes and tantrums kids are having of off refined sugar rushes..
As a Parent, I know innocent bystanders get hurt also.

Maybe I am biased, but I do percieve a difference in the 2 kinds of hurt there.

Less so in the harm that people experience when suffering from forms of diabetes, Obesity etc caused largely by sugars.

With Love
Eelco

[Chester]

It's akin to a Teflon mountain.

We keep sliding own one side or the other, and it's nearly impossible to balance on the top. Full on use --- or zero use.

Balanced intake?

Good luck with that.......

Personally, this is precisely where I am at with it, but I feel I can only speak for myself and only make that decision myself.

I am beyond convinced that in my case, I only increase the odds I end up experiencing things I later wish I hadn't when I ingest almost any drug (and alcohol is just one) where I know the effects of that drug upon myself play a role in opening myself to at the very least, influence, and at worst, where I have all but fully given up my personal sovereignty to what may be very real "energetic embodiments" who are directly and clearly interested in me, specifically and, based on my experiences I can conclude likely do not have my best interests in mind.

Yet... what I also can state as fact from my experience in this one life (the only life I have an memories of), if I had not done the various drugs and drinking I did, I make odds extremely high I may never have opened to anything beyond the 5 sense world. If I had not done so, I likely would have ended up a full blown unkowing slave to what appears to be an agenda that emanates from NOT Sam Hunter and I also suspect emanates from NOT my soul. So in my specific case, I have no regrets as to how I achieved what could be called "a degree of awakening" though I hold many regrets as to words and actions I said or did which I feel harmed others.

Again, my dream would be that at least for Earth humans (as this is the only group of sentient beings I know for a fact exist), that we would all open to "beyond the 5 sense world" in that it exists and is a part of our wholistic reality just as the material realm is and that by so doing, we might then begin to experience beyond the 5 sense world without resorting to the risks of drugs (alcohol).

[Chester]

This is a personal choice. If you chose not to partake. Lovely, your choice. If others choose to do so, that is their right. That is what freedom means.

I am puzzled by the picking and choosing of which drug is good and which is bad. Sugar, alcohol, and caffeine are drugs, yet most of the people here are not talking about the demonic possession of people who need that morning joe. In fact, at least as far as im aware, bread is basically sugar for the body. Your body treats bread, which when ingested turns into basically sugar, as sugar. So we could add bread to that list. The person who wants to condemn drugs should be eating beans and rice and salad of fresh vegetables.



We are all different and we all have our different experiences. If one has never experienced personally what I am labeling as "demonic influence" and "demonic possession" (as I have which is extensively documented) or has never experienced this same phenomena coming forth in loved one (as I have, and with many members of both my blood family and my first wife and her family) then there may be a lack of qualification for comments that suggest these types of phenomena can at all be equated to the effects of substances such as sugar or caffeine. Yet even in the case of bread, I would never eliminate the possibility that as it turns to a form of sugar, this could play a role either by itself or in combination with other substances in exacerbating the opportunity for an increase in demonic involvement in one's life experience.

Each of us can chose to open or not to the possibility of such a phenomena as we wish. In my case, I have no choice. This is all because of my quite extensive personal experience with the phenomena. Its not a theory, its a fact. That the catholic Church has a team of "exorcists" is not because they decided to make some "woo-woo" real in their minds. As to why a particular exorcist might become involved in a specific case may only be known to that particular exorcist and perhaps the exorcists direct superiors. But I won't go down that road now as this diverts from the point.

If "demonics" are involved in an individual's life experience and that individual has generated enough tragic experiences to reasonably and realistically conclude that the negative effects of this demonic attention is massively increased via the ingestion of one or more specific substances, I will stick my neck out and brake one of my protocols by stating that this individual should not touch those substances at all whatsoever.



I would argue, and Im not discounting the possibility of beings unseen having a hand in it, that our world is so psychologically unstable and incoherent that many of these substances actually remove the ability to pretend to have coherence. This is not the drug causing it, it is merely revealing what is already there. I am reminded of the Richard Alpert story, at least that is who i think it was, about giving heavy doses of LSD to the yogi in india and then the yogi not being affected whatsoever. Why do you suppose that was? I am sure you are familiar with as above so below, as within so it is without. We are reflections of that around us. The psychopathy that is hidden by the facade of normality is often revealed when perturbed(like by a substance or meditation or some other method). When you focus on the fire and dont look at the gunpowder, you will have a misguided understanding of the explosion.

I greatly appreciate the larger point of your excellent post that is fully formed by this last paragraph and it leaves me with this question.

Is it possible all but perhaps a tiny, tiny few of us humans here on this lovely planet at this time are to some degree or another psychopathic?

If not, where would we draw that line?

That Yogi would appear to be an exception... how many are at this being's "level" or beyond? Is it the level of this Yogi where we might draw that line?

I feel the last sentence sums up your point perfectly. Yet, when a being is in the grips of a psychosis (an extreme case), what are the chances that being would listen to your point, accept it and that by so doing, relieve themselves of their malady/calamity?

Thankfully I am looking far more at the gunpowder these days, yet I don't deny that there are still, indeed, the fires and in cases where there are, I don't recommend throwing gasoline on those fires.

[Shannon]

*whistles and ducks out while hoping no one notices ...



I do want to send love and support to Sam though. Hugs man.

[Sean]

Well,if enhanced awareness increases the chance of demonic/archontic "attention", doesn't meditation run the same risk? Why couldn't one use the same protective techniques smart meditators use(light shields, etc) before smoking weed or having a few drinks?

[Ernie Nemeth]

Can substances induce a paranormal experience? If that's what is being asked , I would answer, yes.

On drugs , I've encountered a group of light beings that were somehow involved with me. There was no fear, only love, openness, and endless knowledge. I wanted to stay, they sent me back. Could be considered all in my head.

And at the height of my yoga training, when I was sent to train in kundalini, my entire reality just tore one day. I left my house, my girl, my possessions and headed for the big city. It took over five years before I truly realized what I had done. And by then it was too late to undo it. But I only wistfully wanted to go back anyway. Not done much yoga since, really.

So any intense experience or over-used substance can alter not only one's mind-set but also one's life.

[zen deik]

Personal experience seems decreased awareness,lowered inhibitions, where my moral compass was involved. Under the influence we tend to do things we would otherwise would not, and regret later. Actions like these perhaps toil the soil for the bad seed to take root in ,the change is so subtle the individual goes along unaware

[Chester]

Personal experience seems decreased awareness,lowered inhibitions, where my moral compass was involved. Under the influence we tend to do things we would otherwise would not, and regret later. Actions like these perhaps toil the soil for the bad seed to take root in ,the change is so subtle the individual goes along unaware

Sometimes there may be other factors such as a genetic component. This might imply such theories as "family karma." It also can be a combination of factors.

I do my best not to imply that my speculations regarding my own personal experiences are the case with everyone else, even a group of others and even down to a single being.

I must also point out that there are extreme cases (extremely rare) which don't seem brought on by a lack of any moral compass.

Some are noted in this video. None may have also involved drugs or alcohol.

mV1EYBCS2x8

FtEHWCu1Qtw

x4n9vK0_mdk

[pueblo]

This is a personal choice. If you chose not to partake. Lovely, your choice. If others choose to do so, that is their right. That is what freedom means.

I am puzzled by the picking and choosing of which drug is good and which is bad. Sugar, alcohol, and caffeine are drugs, yet most of the people here are not talking about the demonic possession of people who need that morning joe. In fact, at least as far as im aware, bread is basically sugar for the body. Your body treats bread, which when ingested turns into basically sugar, as sugar. So we could add bread to that list. The person who wants to condemn drugs should be eating beans and rice and salad of fresh vegetables.



This point is often overlooked, drugs are properly food.

[Carmody]

It's akin to a Teflon mountain.

We keep sliding down one side or the other, and it's nearly impossible to balance on the top. Full on use --- or zero use.

Balanced intake?

Good luck with that.......

Personally, this is precisely where I am at with it, but I feel I can only speak for myself and only make that decision myself.

I am beyond convinced that in my case, I only increase the odds I end up experiencing things I later wish I hadn't when I ingest almost any drug (and alcohol is just one) where I know the effects of that drug upon myself play a role in opening myself to at the very least, influence, and at worst, where I have all but fully given up my personal sovereignty to what may be very real "energetic embodiments" who are directly and clearly interested in me, specifically and, based on my experiences I can conclude likely do not have my best interests in mind.

Yet... what I also can state as fact from my experience in this one life (the only life I have an memories of), if I had not done the various drugs and drinking I did, I make odds extremely high I may never have opened to anything beyond the 5 sense world. If I had not done so, I likely would have ended up a full blown unkowing slave to what appears to be an agenda that emanates from NOT Sam Hunter and I also suspect emanates from NOT my soul. So in my specific case, I have no regrets as to how I achieved what could be called "a degree of awakening" though I hold many regrets as to words and actions I said or did which I feel harmed others.

Again, my dream would be that at least for Earth humans (as this is the only group of sentient beings I know for a fact exist), that we would all open to "beyond the 5 sense world" in that it exists and is a part of our wholistic reality just as the material realm is and that by so doing, we might then begin to experience beyond the 5 sense world without resorting to the risks of drugs (alcohol).

To gain insight, and depth of vision and the ability to parallax one's capacities..and thus see with vision and depth..one requires mind altering. drugs can be of that nature. To bring the side shifted view and thought pattern into being, in the self and thus enable more colors, colors you ain't seen before.

We get such a high off it, high from the new and the invigorating, that we head down the same road again, but it's not capable of bringing in or ringing in the new, in the way it did the first time. The trick is knowing that and letting it go.

The seeker, searcher and experiencer ..stuck in the dead cat bounce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce) of drug and substance addiction.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/CunBX.gif

Everyone wants to fall in love again for the first time, but alas, it is simply not possible, as long as we have memory and learning in this human form.

[zen deik]

I believe as mentioned earlier one must participate to some degree in a possession case,but Scott Peck pointed out the chief characteristic of evil is it wishes to hide, even from the person in which it resides and sometimes mimics mental health issues. Tricky for sure. I think certain hunting grounds to say would lead certain groups open to attack, or individual types .

[Bubu]

It's akin to a Teflon mountain.

We keep sliding down one side or the other, and it's nearly impossible to balance on the top. Full on use --- or zero use.

Balanced intake?

Good luck with that.......

knowing when to full on use and when to zero use and being able to do it is balance intake me thinks. I do missed at times like I missed in all aspects, but I can say it has done me waaaayyyy more good than harm. I'm not into demonic possessions IMO I am the only one who can posses myself unless I blame it on others

[Chester]

It's akin to a Teflon mountain.

We keep sliding down one side or the other, and it's nearly impossible to balance on the top. Full on use --- or zero use.

Balanced intake?

Good luck with that.......

knowing when to full on use and when to zero use and being able to do it is balance intake me thinks. I do missed at times like I missed in all aspects, but I can say it has done me waaaayyyy more good than harm. I'm not into demonic possessions IMO I am the only one who can posses myself unless I blame it on others

Be glad you have not experienced this with yourself or your loved ones (or both as I have... not fun).

¤=[Post Update]=¤




It's akin to a Teflon mountain.

We keep sliding down one side or the other, and it's nearly impossible to balance on the top. Full on use --- or zero use.

Balanced intake?

Good luck with that.......

Personally, this is precisely where I am at with it, but I feel I can only speak for myself and only make that decision myself.

I am beyond convinced that in my case, I only increase the odds I end up experiencing things I later wish I hadn't when I ingest almost any drug (and alcohol is just one) where I know the effects of that drug upon myself play a role in opening myself to at the very least, influence, and at worst, where I have all but fully given up my personal sovereignty to what may be very real "energetic embodiments" who are directly and clearly interested in me, specifically and, based on my experiences I can conclude likely do not have my best interests in mind.

Yet... what I also can state as fact from my experience in this one life (the only life I have an memories of), if I had not done the various drugs and drinking I did, I make odds extremely high I may never have opened to anything beyond the 5 sense world. If I had not done so, I likely would have ended up a full blown unkowing slave to what appears to be an agenda that emanates from NOT Sam Hunter and I also suspect emanates from NOT my soul. So in my specific case, I have no regrets as to how I achieved what could be called "a degree of awakening" though I hold many regrets as to words and actions I said or did which I feel harmed others.

Again, my dream would be that at least for Earth humans (as this is the only group of sentient beings I know for a fact exist), that we would all open to "beyond the 5 sense world" in that it exists and is a part of our wholistic reality just as the material realm is and that by so doing, we might then begin to experience beyond the 5 sense world without resorting to the risks of drugs (alcohol).

To gain insight, and depth of vision and the ability to parallax one's capacities..and thus see with vision and depth..one requires mind altering. drugs can be of that nature. To bring the side shifted view and thought pattern into being, in the self and thus enable more colors, colors you ain't seen before.

We get such a high off it, high from the new and the invigorating, that we head down the same road again, but it's not capable of bringing in or ringing in the new, in the way it did the first time. The trick is knowing that and letting it go.

The seeker, searcher and experiencer ..stuck in the dead cat bounce (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce) of drug and substance addiction.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/CunBX.gif

Everyone wants to fall in love again for the first time, but alas, it is simply not possible, as long as we have memory and learning in this human form.

In my case (again... I can only speak for myself) - this is precisely the dilemma I found myself experiencing each time I went back (even after years of a layoff).

That graph though... as they say, a picture says 1,000 words. Thanks for the post.

[Ernie Nemeth]

That's why an addict needs to "bottom out" before help can be effective. Bottoming out most often leaves a very heavy mark on one's entire being. It is the memory of bottoming out and the events that lead up to it that allows an addict to short circuit the addiction. It simply becomes more of a "bummer" (when all aspects of addiction are considered) than a high. If they do fall off the wagon they often chase the memory of the "buzz" as it was the first time, with the first relapse being the most pleasurable and quickly tapering off back to the usual dysfunction involved with the drug of choice. And so they do more drugs more often and hit rock bottom very quickly again, if they are lucky.

[Chester]

That's why an addict needs to "bottom out" before help can be effective. Bottoming out most often leaves a very heavy mark on one's entire being. It is the memory of bottoming out and the events that lead up to it that allows an addict to short circuit the addiction. It simply becomes more of a "bummer" (when all aspects of addiction are considered) than a high. If they do fall off the wagon they often chase the memory of the "buzz" as it was the first time, with the first relapse being the most pleasurable and quickly tapering off back to the usual dysfunction involved with the drug of choice. And so they do more drugs more often and hit rock bottom very quickly again, if they are lucky.

Sadly... sometimes it is too late for a bottoming out and in fact, that I have provided thoughts and information in this thread, is based on my hope that even one reader might benefit.

I got a call from my sister this morning. I have only one full blood sister and a generation younger half brother.

My sister had only one child, a very troubled daughter with a life filled with alcoholism, drug addition, rehabs and jails.

Last night, my sister's daughter... and it appears that it is her fault, hit another car head on. (http://www.kltv.com/story/31307644/dps-releases-names-of-two-killed-in-smith-county-toll-49-wreck) They say she died instantly as well as the driver of the car she hit. A passenger in the other car (according to my sister) probably won't make it through.

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A few days ago I was driving in my car. I was thinking about the post made by Bill about the impermanence of things. I then had the strange thought that though I live a clean life now, how easy it is for someone else to be in such condition that they could "just randomly" swerve and hit me head on. Now I really don't mind to die... I am well past that one now, but the fact is that there are several in my life, loved ones, who depend on me. And it is with these folks in mind I had this sad thought.

Then, just as fast entered the thought which is one of my operational assumptions. There are no coincidences. I am in charge of my reality experience. I then drifted away from my fear thoughts when I suddenly recalled a close friend of my father who had been killed senselessly while driving very near his home by some other driver. His name I still recall even though I was only seven or eight years old when it happened. His name was Nick Tinker.

Just a few minutes ago I once again was speaking with my sister who is obviously shocked and in her initial chaotic stages of acceptance and grief. I told her of my strange thoughts of the other day and how odd it was that I had them and how horrible it is to have these types of premonitions yet never is there enough information to prevent "the bad thing."

She then reminded me of my step-mother who told us of her own premonitions regarding the car accident of my father's friend, Nick Tinker. I had forgotten that part and that I had thought of Nick Tinker as mentioned above seemed to close the loop.

Boy this world is strange.

[zen deik]

It is a wonder any of us survive, sorry for your loss.....

[Ernie Nemeth]

Everyone's experience in this area is different. This I know from experience. But what I learned seems to be a commonality in such situations is the sufferer's enablers. Many addicts have certain support structures they use to fall back on or to finance their addiction. There are many ways to be an enabler. Most are well intentioned but that does not change their status. Due to their concern for the addict, enablers remain stuck in a dysfunctional dance of motivations, feeding their own needs as much as the addict's. The concern for the addict might be genuine but the mode of offering help only allows the addict to "maintain" their addiction. Tough love is not always the solution. Sometimes distance and separation do far more good. But the enabler must then be prepared to live with the consequences. Most important is that the enabler understand that it is not their fault and they are not to blame - neither for what they do or don't do. The best an enabler can do is practice unconditional love. That sort of love has no obligation attached to it for either party. It is very "unnatural" in our society to even consider applying the principles of unconditional love. Such love comes with its own instructions, tailored specifically to the individuals and the situation involved. It is also a good way to come to understand the Almighty's love for each of us. It might even answer why there is so much suffering in the world, with a god so powerful and loving...

Very sorry for your loss, Sam.

[Calz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSm7BcQHWXk

[TargeT]

I must stop externalizing. It is in my internal dialog that has me in thrall. Not a thought is thought that does not go out and seek to blame an external source - continuously. This is my job now - to correct this internal dialog that tries to crucify me at every turn. It is a constant battle. But it is a battle that has already produced reinforcing effects.

First off, GREAT post!

I've come to a lot of similar conclusions, but I hedge my bet with this: what was Carlos Castaneda and Don Juan talking about, why do the "archons" come up in Gnostic teaching? do you think your ego lines up with your real personality? Why is it that almost 90% of people turn "dark" under heavy influence of alcohol (the most prevalent drug in the world) & why is it that other drugs that don't do this (and are known to be healthier for us) are demonized and taught to children as the worst thing ever?

I'm not willing to commit to the fact that the Ego is me, in fact my Ego is not me; it does not share my values it does not really provide any useful input into my daily life... I used to think it was a neccisary tool to retain individuality, but no longer... it's just a selfish asshole that waits for it's opportunity to influence and antagonize when ever possible.

My ego is not me & this is why I keep it in check; because I have decided that I will be my own person and not what the "voice in side my head" that tries to act like it's me tells me to be.


What is the EGO? The quotes used are taken from conversations between Carlos Castaneda and Don Juan.
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I don't think drugs are anymore a problem then the ego that demonizes them. This is one of the many tricks the ego does to falsely elevate itself. Conversely one would be remiss in elevating a drug (or anything else for that matter) as the answer.

In a way we all take a drug called life. Even though I know what it is and what it does I am still a bit addicted to it. Okay, maybe a LOT, ....... denial, go figure.

I know, I know..... I am weak. ;)



The ego knows this weakness... Ego has very little influence over us, but if it's what Don Juan says it is, it's a timeless thing that has millennia to learn how best to use that limited influence to subtly guide us to its will. It seems that certain intoxicants work better for the ego to take over more influence (aka why people become drunk assholes maybe?).


Even if it's not an external thing, it's still something we must face down and dominate; because in our current society it's almost useless and most often detrimental to us.


That's why an addict needs to "bottom out" before help can be effective. Bottoming out most often leaves a very heavy mark on one's entire being. It is the memory of bottoming out and the events that lead up to it that allows an addict to short circuit the addiction. It simply becomes more of a "bummer" (when all aspects of addiction are considered) than a high. If they do fall off the wagon they often chase the memory of the "buzz" as it was the first time, with the first relapse being the most pleasurable and quickly tapering off back to the usual dysfunction involved with the drug of choice. And so they do more drugs more often and hit rock bottom very quickly again, if they are lucky.

I'm currently helping someone find rock bottom, not my initial intention but I've decided that's best.

I have a friend, a self admitted alcoholic (but even though the words leave his lips I don't think he believes it or actually cares enough to do anything about it). He's lied to me, i guess technically stolen from me (minor things, mostly to do with alcohol) ignored my requests; gotten so intoxicated that he stole my car, hit something with it on the way to my friends house at 2 in the morning... apparently he forgot his wallet there or something his drug addled brain was hung up on & walked into the guys bedroom and woke him up asking for it (best way to get shot in the face I can think of). the next day he didn't remember any of it.

So we had a mini intervention, I went into his room and cleaned out all of his drugs (he was mixing Benzo's with Alcohol the night he took my vehicle) & myself my mom and my wife sat him down and had a talk. He self rationalized the whole time, made excuses & basically placated his way out of the conversation.

Now three weeks later I'm asking him to move out of my house (I had offered him a place to stay so he could get his **** together after going through a failed business, he's been at my house for almost 3 months).

By helping him I enabled him; and at this point I'm pushing him out so he can fail on his own,, but he's a pretty resourceful guy so it make take a while for him to find his bottom (if me kicking him out isn't an eye opener)...

what else can you do? The worst part is I see the potential in myself to be him, which is probably why it's so disappointing to see him walking around basically retarded, yet trying to act like he's normal... I feel disgust when I look at him now, which isn't really fair.


Most are well intentioned but that does not change their status. Due to their concern for the addict, enablers remain stuck in a dysfunctional dance of motivations, feeding their own needs as much as the addict's. The concern for the addict might be genuine but the mode of offering help only allows the addict to "maintain" their addiction. Tough love is not always the solution. Sometimes distance and separation do far more good..

I hope this is my first and last time enabling, and luckily I caught on in a semi short time before anything truly bad happened.

The worst thing you can do to a human is isolate them, in doing so you help them find rock bottom IMO...

I'm not sure if this is unconditional love, but it's what I'm going to do.

[Ewan]

I stopped and chatted to a homeless guy on the streets today, on the way back to the car I gave him some hot food I'd got for him and also slipped £10 into his hand. It was only as I got into the car that I wondered what he might do with the £10. Did I enable him to buy half a bottle of whiskey or did I enable him to buy food tomorrow. I hope it was the latter.