New age deceivers..Keisha Crowther

[shiva777]

Falsehoods of the New Age: Kiesha Crowther

My purpose in this essay is to show, perhaps one last time, how some of the manipulations work, especially when directed to those who “want to believe”. It is the “ET as savior” message that has prompted me to write this in response to email I received from people who presumed this “messenger” (and her message) is the next best thing after sliced bread. She cultivates a projection of appearing to believe that what she says is of the highest order. Overall the style of presentation resembles that of religious “fundamentalists”. I was not taken in by her Santa Fe presentation, and now that I have seen/heard her most recent Swiss presentation, I am even more troubled by her agenda. This article is based upon a number of recent email exchanges. This analysis can be readily applied to any number of new age/ET advocates.

While the personage here is not really the main point, she is one of many who are promoting ET’s as saviors, promotes herself in a way to lull her audience into accepting her “credentials” and so better accept her message. She relies on a litany of “credentials” implying her supra-normal abilities and “certification” by external authority (usually referred as some “elder council”). At the same time she adopts an effective posture of false humility.

I would not rule out the possibility that, like Yates/FTG, Crowther was convenient and naive enough to be targertted as a "dupe" for the dark side. Given the dark background of some of her "associates", this also makes sense since they monitor and use people in this way.

Given her type of audience, this usually impresses everyone enough so that they are made even more “receptive” (gullible). Just to make sure that no one questions her fundamental message, she also admonishes everyone to deny their minds and only use their “heart” thus playing upon a range of predictable emotional response. The programmed response to anyone who has an intelligent question concerning her message is an easy one, especially for those who are most drawn to her approach: dismiss or attack a critic by accusing them of not being in their heart. Her presentation relies on sophisticated manipulation that uses a defensive energetic pathology to preempt anyone questioning her statements at a public venue with the proven method of breaking down an already receptive (gullible) audience by first shaming or dooming them, then presenting terrible possibilities and warnings, and ending with the “profit” for everyone –usually a variation on presumed spiritual “transformation” that involves ET’s/aliens as saviors.

If she is simply ignorant or poorly informed, then one can ignore her as just another opportunistic talker. But she presents herself as an authority, “certified” by other external authority. Hence my assessment that her agenda is dominated by falsehoods. If she is so well-informed and really knows what she is talking about, then she could be further characterized as an up and coming agent of the dark, as are most of the new age type personalities. However, her audiences are presented with a combination of real world ignorance and falsehoods coupled with spiritual ignorance and falsehoods.

There are native American types throughout all the Americas” that have a specific identification with extraterrestrials as their ancestors. So much that they regard them as the next thing to “gods”. For some this internal history has some truth in that a long time ago their ancestors may well have various ET genetics. If there are those who identify these aliens as their “home” family, fine. There are various ET’s and ET-human mixes on this planet now and many want to leave for more familiar turf. But this does not mean that everyone else who may be spiritually lost needs to follow them. Also I would not presume that these so-called “ancestors” to some of these indigenous groups are really so evolved spiritually. This is all part of the falsehoods that are woven into the new age/indigenous wisdom cults and myths to prepare some humans to accept ET’s as their saviors or long-lost “family”.


Once she has softened up her audience and broken down what they have of a critical faculty, she says it is the ET’s that are coming to help everyone and she says that the “proof” is the numerous sightings of UFO’s all over the world in the recent year or so. She equates this to a vague reference to “light beings”. So which ET’s does she want people to go along with? The ones doing human or animal abductions and medical experiments? Or just the ones that invade the mind and subtle fields as if you really were physically taken? Or perhaps the ones who whisper in the minds of the human powers that be? Or maybe those that whisper in the already depraved minds of those who create and produce the horrific content of so many movies and television series? And this is only for starters.

Around and Around, Spirals and Circles

In a short YouTube video on spirals, probably excerpted from one of her longer presentations, she presents images of rock art and atmospheric phenomena showing spirals. She present the spiral as an ancient universal symbol representing “holy things” or “god”. She shows overlays of Fibonacci spirals as if that further proves anything. She then promotes the “Norway spiral” –a display of directed energy weaponry timed to coincide with the Nobel award event with Obama. Then she mentions this has shown up a few other times elsewhere, supposedly as proof further of something deserving of awe. To emphasize her point further to gullible audiences, she adds that “science has no explanation” (!) –an absurd thing to say it was “science” that created these weapons. But no, she says this is proof of the transformational changes that coming.

She goes on to say there is no way all these ancient cultures had communications with another, therefore it must have been a common “god” connection. Yet another falsehood: Many of the ancient societies around the world were under various extra-terrestrial influences. This is evidenced by artifacts of similar technologies, linguistics, “mythology” and more. These influences also coincided with various entities posing as “god” as per various religious books and thus setting in motion one of the most durable social control systems of the modern era, religion.

What does this all have to do with her main message? Promoting ET/Alien influences from ancient times to present and creating appearances of credibility.

In the extended presentation from earlier in the year, she engaged in some name-dropping to further impress her audience and rattled off a number of meaningless examples of the wonders of technology. Very cleverly, instead of speaking clearly and precisely, she hazily describes the physical appearance of certain Tesla technology and then says that is proof in the benefit of advanced technology to humans.

Part of her message carries a troublesome distortion. Her remarks that everyone is “learning the lessons they need to learn” is too much part of what obscures the influence of the dark. It is a variation on the theme of “you create your own reality”. This falsehood misinforms that a person who is horribly suffering in a dark corner of this dark world is responsible for their situation?! This is a basic fallacy of many of the so-called indigenous native teachings (mostly ET-influenced) as it is with the New Age. It is actually a form of fundamentalist judgment: “humans will get what they deserve.” And yet she makes no distinction between the human self and higher level of being and blurs and obscures distinctions between humans and souls, souls and humans, etc. This is yet another indicator that she lacks an evolved spiritual consciousness.

While trying to express her basic message, she reinforces the false polarity of the mind versus heart. While part of her message contains many good points covered in “spirituality 101”, she uses such superficiality to manipulate her audience. This is part of the sugar-coated poison pill.

It is with disdain that I witness her emotionally manipulative techniques. Once she has gotten control of her audience, she then delivers her “ET’s as saviors” message. From the southwest to the Canadian northeast and all the way around the world, much of this “indigenous elders” teachings is ET-based, promoting ET’s-as-second-coming, etc.

“Remember the divinity of who you are” is a good generic message from “spirituality 101”, but as this is easier said than done. It is like telling someone who is drowning and who never had swimming experience to swim!

Her “ET message” is one I find most troublesome in the context of her presentations. She makes no distinction as to what these craft really are and says that all these sightings proof that the “ET’s” are coming to save humans. But I must contradict her here and point out that these sightings are of shadow PTB and of those ET’s that are allied with the dark. Do your homework.

She says there are a few thousand in the world today working on the new consciousness. Then later she says the number is thirty-two thousand. She says humans in the future will be eating animals for food, but there will be no industrial slaughterhouses. So she begins to paint some bizarre world of humans turned into hunter gatherers? She says this year 2010 is the year everything is supposed to “flip” –as if the grand transformation will suddenly occur. Had she qualified this to be something that a small fraction of humans will be experiencing, it would be different. She presents this as if humans will all suddenly be transformed in the proverbial blink of an eye and all will be good. Her projection of beneficial change leads to masses of starving people leaving the cities, killing anything that moves to survive.

Then, like David Icke, she throws in “love is the answer” and uses this to reinforce her instructions to deny the mind its place in your being. To deny the mind is to deny discernment. Her spiritual “guidance” is classic EST training: tell yourself that everything is good and fine and that they are to blame if things do not go right. By inference, she informs people not to consider there is a malevolent force at work in the human and higher levels. In addition to programming her audience to deny their minds, she also programs them to ignore any negativity, ignore anything that may critically challenge their assumptions or beliefs. She is defensive toward the religions, as if they were positive spiritual practices! She tells people that their dreams comes from higher self. This is obviously not true to anyone who pays attention or has studied the nature of the “dream world”.

Her approach is to wear down the audience and make them receptive and then toss them the “profit” –a term developed by meme-engineering professionals to refer to a “positive” sounding catch. She conceals the true nature of this reality and tells people to embrace ET’s as their saviors without discernment.

I would never refer anyone to her presentations.

-Alex


P.S.

She also reveals something of her own psychology in telling exaggerated and emotionally twisted stories of dolphins “unable to swim fast enough” to escape the Oil in the Gulf and claiming that the alien/lightworkers are hiding amongst the mentally-ill. This last point is also suggestive and revealing considering that one of the effects from the dark infestation of humans can cause severe mental disorders, dangerous ones at times. So why is she promoting all this as something to embrace

[truthseekerdan]

Are you manipulated by FEAR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4HwFHiYyA)? :confused:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4HwFHiYyA

[RAKMEiSTER]

i started reading than was hmm how long is this ganna go, scrolled and was like omg
no way im reading that all, and ive seen the way shiva shifter to, (seems) and thats your path not mine. im guess your at a diffrent stage.
easy to label it new age and from there rest..


maybe you need to raise youre vibration live from the heart (heart than mind process) and with the new energy get more rightside brain, since we've had 10K+years leftside brain thinking - ( l - | + r ) and new energy = - ++. want more info ask and you will get.

if you need so much text to "proove"(which is your perception) something/case than its not good

[wynderer]

Also I would not presume that these so-called “ancestors” to some of these indigenous groups are really so evolved spiritually. This is all part of the falsehoods that are woven into the new age/indigenous wisdom cults and myths to prepare some humans to accept ET’s as their saviors or long-lost “family

thank you for this -- it seems to be common among white newagers in the USA to believe that our Native Americans automatically know more about/possess more wisdom re the Spirit & spiritual matters, just because they are Native -- i recently read Jim Marrs' 'Alien Agenda' -- according to him, some of the Native tribes who live where animal mutilations take place don't like to talk about them, the mutilations, other than saying that the 'space brothers' know what they are doing -- i really don't think that the animal mutilators are highly developed spiritually

[wynderer]

Are you manipulated by FEAR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4HwFHiYyA)? :confused:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA4HwFHiYyA

i'm not clear on how your post relates to Shiva's --??? i personally did not see fear as his motivation for writing it --???

[Banshee]

[I]thank you for this -- it seems to be common among white newagers in the USA to believe that our Native Americans automatically know more about/possess more wisdom re the Spirit & spiritual matters, just because they are Native

I don't want into this debate but just wanted to point something out - the Native Americans lived in harmony with and with respect for the Earth. That IMHO does make them more in tune with their spirituality. They understood that the earth is a living organism. Something pretty foreign to western thinking.

[shiva777]

I understand that most people interested in spirituality on this site will be "new-agers"...following Drunvalo,Cannon,Walsch,Wilcock etc,etc...and won't understand the subtleties of how that "religion" and it's High priests such as Neale Walsch are just teaching people to be happier within their prison walls...they sincerely offer lots of useful and helpful understandings to deal with life but not enough to get out of the FALSE ASCENSION MATRIX,,just enough to keep you happily following it

this is one of the fundamental understandings that explains that much of what the new age teachers are preaching is just another clever manipulation of the masses...REALLY THINK AND FEEL into this...it turns the new-age religion on it's head and explains that the hologram we live in is not an ORGANIC creation,it is an inorganic hologram based on false geometries and physics created by "fallen angels" or negative ET's/Annunaki/Dracs etc...the new-agey mainstream teachers and ancient cultures do and did not understand that in most cases ...http://www.pfcn.net/Bulletins/Flaw%20in%20Creation%20-%20July%202007.pdf

[Wood]

She tells people that their dreams comes from higher self. This is obviously not true to anyone who pays attention or has studied the nature of the “dream world”.

Hi shiva777. Would you consider starting a thread about the nature of the dream world, to share your insights on the subject?

[wynderer]

I don't want into this debate but just wanted to point something out - the Native Americans lived in harmony with and with respect for the Earth. That IMHO does make them more in tune with their spirituality. They understood that the earth is a living organism. Something pretty foreign to western thinking.

i know this is the accepted p.o.v., the 'respect for earth by Native peoples' -- i sadly have come to the conclusion that fear motivated this 'respect' for many -- if you read real history, not newagey stuff, you'll find that the respect wasn't all that great -- maybe the Medicine Men were truly respectful -- kind of like how Christian saints were the only ones really practicing Christianity

i'm white, & have lived in Native American communities -- in my experience, many Native Americans are just as brainwashed as the rest of humans, & spend their money on just as much Earth-poisoning corporate crap as the rest of humans do

[Steven]

Shiva,

You pejorativly label 'new agey' a whole lot of people, which in some case I agree to some degree that they might be wrong sometimes, but who isn't? :)

Now, I find it rather strange that you label them 'new agey' while the ones you present as the ones who say the truth; Ashayana Deane, 'global awakening news', etc... are exactly the kind of 'new agey' false prophets you repeatitivly warn us about!

Are you aware of it?

Second, do not confuse the ancient knowledge of the elder tribes with what you label 'new agey'. It is another insult on top of all the repression these people have suffered in the past. Don't you know your real history? Their knowledge is profound, in concordance to reality, it is a knowledge that you can observe and practice in you daily life. It is also a knowledge that has been repressed by the Church, the monarchies and the scientific comunity of the time of the great colonization in the world.

I urge you to put Ashayana Deane aside for a while a really feed a genuine interest in the elders. The Dogon, the Mayan, the Ianomami, the Zulus, etc... All these small peaceful people upon which Empires has been built have all a thing in common; a deep meaningful knowledge that the Empire doesn't want us to know because it has the power to free us. And it still goes on today. The difference is that the truth is also leaking today...

Namaste, Steven

[elysian]

There is nothing "religious" about Neale Donald Walsch and his work. I have read all of his material and he specifically on many occasions mentions how religion is limiting spiritual evolution and is the cause of most of the biggest conflicts in our history. He suggests everyone to find there own path. He also states about his teachings that: This Is Not A Better Way, It Is Merely Another Way..

[shiva777]

Steven... ALL cultures have many beautiful truths and very FUNDAMENTAL lies...why did none of those cultures survive and why did they become enslaved if they had such wisdom and purity?...same reason the new-agers are being enslaved...distortions and incomplete understandings...

Walsch is feeding the new-age religion...the failure to understand and address the fundamental distortion of our hologram..the distortion that the new-age community and tribal "elders" are also MOSTLY ignorant of...Lisa Renee.Alex Kochkin,Meg benedicte,Asahayan Deane and some others are NOT new-agers in my definition as they are breaking through the false ascension matrix...

[lightblue]

.
shiva777
Walsch is feeding the new-age religion...the failure to understand and address the fundamental distortion of our hologram..the distortion that the new-age community is also ignorant of

but according to you, who is knowledgeable? thanks l


.

[elysian]

I dont believe to be enslaved is sign of lesser wisdom. I dont believe that anyone who has ever enslaved anyone has done that because they are wise and pure.

Please enlighten me on the fundamental distortion of our hologram because I dont see anything that Walsch does not address in his material.

[Steven]

Thank you for your answer Shiva,

I understand your point of view and respect it. It is yours.

To answer your question quotes: 'why did none of those cultures survive and why did they become enslaved if they had such wisdom and purity?...' It isn't true, many of them did survive, the Dogon, the Zulu, the Mayan, even my small people the Mi'kmaq did! They aren't much of a power, no microphone comes to their mouth, but they do have something quite interesting to say, especially today. Another part of the answer lies in the question, the Empire did the dirty work, exactly because these small people had great knowledge.

I remember a very very popular thread in Avalon1, The Thuban thread made by Abraxassinas. The thread was a whole lot of confused, smart, presentation of the reality. At one point, a guy named StardustAquarion stepped in to confront Abraxassinas with the same kind of confused, smart, presentation of his view of reality. Reading them both was hilarious, but also sad. Sad because a whole lot of people were following the confusion. This Stardustaquarion guy is a fervent follower of Ashayana Deane. We recogtnize a tree by its fruits, and the fruits coming out of Mr. Stardustaquarion were confusion, not clarity.

When an idea is explained with complicated words, half truth, totally new words, meaningless sentence, it is because the idea in the mind, isn't clear. A clear idea, is always easy to express.

Namaste, Steven

[lightblue]

Please enlighten me on the fundamental distortion of our hologram because I dont see anything that Walsch does not address in his material.

yes please ..and put it in your own words rather than paste links to ashayana deane and/or lisa rene.. thanks again l



.

[shiva777]

you seem very confused yourself Steven...

Lightblue...just look through the threads in this "spirituality" forum and you will find many links there from me

[lightblue]

Lightblue...just look thorugh the threads in this "spirituality" forum and you will find many links there from me


please address elysian and my request - just briefly recap the answer in your own words ..thanks :thank_you2: l




.

.

[Steven]

you seem very confused yourself Steven...

:) Yes, sometimes I am, who isn't. But let me repeat it again. A clear thought is expressed with clarity. When the expressed thought is confusion, made out of complicated non-real concept, it proves that the thought is also unclear and foggy. Isn't it clear? :)

Take care, Steven

[Fredkc]

When an idea is explained with complicated words, half truth, totally new words, meanignless sentence, it is because the idea in the mind, isn't clear. A clear idea, is always easy to express.
Imagine that!
A crystal clear summation, and characterization of the ultimate "new agey" material on the web, by someone with a long history of speaking forthrightly and from the heart, on this site... and it seems "confusing".

What a glorious summation in, and of itself.
Fred

[cloud9]

Dear shiva,
I've read many of your posts and I always feel like you "know" something the rest of us don't but I need to ask you a few questions:
Have you reached some kind of illuminate state or stage where you can access information from? If so, can you please share with us what it is?
Is there any other source of information that you trust other than Ashayana Deane?
Why is it that you reject or dislike any other messengers and also, you put them all in the same sac?
I got to be honest with you.... in my opinion any person who teaches people how to live a better life and how to become better humans beings showing the way of service and love I don't consider them "wrong", quite the apposite.
Can you please tell me what do you consider "wrong" in Neale Donald Walsch' books? Can you please be specific?
I'm asking this with total honesty, he is one of my favorite authors and his books mean the world to me. What part or parts of his message is misleading or untrue?
Also, if I remember well, he doesn't talk about ascension, perhaps my memory is failing me now since last time I read the books was some 2 years ago.
Thank you

[Anchor]

I listen to Keisha Crowther. Up until recently I never had a bone to pick with her information or delivery - but the recent round of talks gave me pause for thought. Whereas previously her material was passing the discernment filters, recently one or two items got "stopped at the door". At this point I wondered myself if her "channel" had been compromised.

One item in particular was when she stated going on about the Gulf being all dead - and projecting an aura of hopelessness. I am not saying the situation is not serious, but it is not hopeless. This view, is my own, and is not "fact" per se, I am just sharing how I reacted.

Does this make Kiesha a bad person? No. In the same way that Blossom Goodchild is not a bad person.

Love is her strongest message and it is that part of her message I personally recommend is the one to focus on.

[pilotsimone]

Love is her strongest message and it is that part of her message I personally recommend is the one to focus on.

Yes! :thumb:

[Beth]

Changed the title of this thread because if I see "new agey" one more time, I will go insane. Then Avalon will descend into chaos as the move/merge queen will be hospitalized.

[pilotsimone]

Thanks for the laugh, Beth! :biggrin1:

[shadowstalker]

Changed the title of this thread because if I see "new agey" one more time, I will go insane. Then Avalon will descend into chaos as the move/merge queen will be hospitalized.

Yes that was a good one, and truth be told I feel the same way.

[Cate]

msg deleted

[Swami]

I understand that most people interested in spirituality on this site will be "new-agers"...following Drunvalo,Cannon,Walsch,Wilcock etc,etc...and won't understand the subtleties of how that "religion" and it's High priests such as Neale Walsch are just teaching people to be happier within their prison walls...they sincerely offer lots of useful and helpful understandings to deal with life but not enough to get out of the FALSE ASCENSION MATRIX,,just enough to keep you happily following it

this is one of the fundamental understandings that explains that much of what the new age teachers are preaching is just another clever manipulation of the masses...REALLY THINK AND FEEL into this...it turns the new-age religion on it's head and explains that the hologram we live in is not an ORGANIC creation,it is an inorganic hologram based on false geometries and physics created by "fallen angels" or negative ET's/Annunaki/Dracs etc...the new-agey mainstream teachers and ancient cultures do and did not understand that in most cases ...http://www.pfcn.net/Bulletins/Flaw%20in%20Creation%20-%20July%202007.pdf



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2odqk7otCGg

[truthseekerdan]

Just a few thoughts to add for what they're worth....

I guess it is probably dangerous to rely wholly on any one teacher or person to show you the path.. Not saying by any means that that is what anyone here has indicated or seems like they do-
just a thought from my own experience.
It is wonderful to listen to many teachers, and many leaders, but I guess at the end of the day, we have to take what seems true and pure from it, in light with our own level of consciousness and state of being at the time. We are all at different levels and coming from different places, backgrounds and perhaps cultures so I guess we all are bringing so much variety with us on our path as we start anyhow...

Cate :)

Definitely agree with you here -- even the scriptures (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:19-22&version=CEV) teach the same...:)

Namaste ~ :love: ~ Dan

[truthseekerdan]

Just a few thoughts to add for what they're worth....

However, I did find Ashayana difficult to follow at times! Should teachings be so complicated as these? Not to criticize her work - just that there is learning/knowledge and there is evolution of consciousness/soul and I'm not convinced that one needs to follow all of those complex teachings of hers to reach higher levels of spiritual evolution.... I think there are probably many paths to lead to the one goal... We are all different..

Cate :)

As you mentioned, there are many paths, some are winding -- if one wants to follow A.D.'s teachings -- whereas other are straight -- without relaying much on the technical (mental work)...

[Agape]

To follow blindly or with eyes open, makes the sole difference.


I've posted an update here : http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3647-The-Bodhgaya-Event-Eva-Zemanova-s-detailed-personal-experience/page42

It's interesting really how all of us know how to rape the sacred flowers. And when we ask for rational help on something,
it still turns to those flowers.
I 'd have to call myself idiot for stepping to this ET-human controversy, it's wrong time, ain't it..

[Alaois]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post so forgive my French if is there is any. Mormon Scripture is considered a Christian Testament by many. There are two threads going through Mormon scripture. That which refers to a religious testament and that which refers to a journey made by a tribe from Israel. Although I don't feel there is any conflict with the Christian Bible (as some may disagree). The story of their travels to the Americas, Lamerica as the Knight Templars called it, are strongly refuted by some as well as the stories in the Christian Bible. As "Did Jesus ever exist?" According to Mormon scripture there were already illegal evil alien strains in the indigenous populations on this continent years ago.

btw - according to true historical documents there were Caucasian, Negroid and Fiery Red Headed, Green Eyed humans indigenous to this continent years before the settlers arrived here.

Alaois

[Operator]

Sigh ... talking about other people again ? :bored:

[ExHaLaTiON]

we are all confused, they have to many weapons to play us with. nobody said this would be easy. i get lost alot too but i wont give up.

[truthseekerdan]

we are all confused, they have to many weapons to play us with. nobody said this would be easy. i get lost alot too but i wont give up.

I would not generalize, my friend...;)

[Cate]

msg deleted

[Hiram]

I read this thread and promised myself I would not get near it with a ten-foot-pole:)

I am compelled to write that whenever someone posts a thread on Avalon or anywhere else which attacks a whole group of people for being "blind" or "stupid" or "foolish" "mislead" etc, I first ask myself (as I am reading such a thing), what is the person who is making this argument is trying to accomplish?

The argument is often presented--sometimes sincerely--as an attempt to "wake people up" to the true reality.

What makes you so sure there is any such thing? Even if there is such a thing, doesn't that seem like that is something each and every individual must discover for themselves?

Do you imagine it is something someone else can tell you about?

Do you imagine that one would "wake up" to this reality if one weren't ready for it?

It has been said many places that when the student is ready, the master appears.

If you believe you have the truth...whatever that is...and you shout it into the wind, what makes you any different than those religious proselytizers?

Hasn't the modality of trying to convince others of some such thing or other been outdated yet? Why waste your time trying to convince anyone of anything? Share your opinion yes, but you must acknowledge....that is only your experience, and yours alone.

A truly progressive approach to spirituality.....never proselytize, never shout in the wind.

[truthseekerdan]

Thanks Dan for your insights!
I know what you mean regarding the 'winding' and the 'straight' path.. however, I'd say my own path so far has been winding enough at times! - in a different way..
living, learning, making mistakes, sometimes really serious ones, learning from them, progressing, at times falling back a bit,
finally reaching a certain level of peace, strength, freedom, wisdom...with so much more to learn of course!!
As mentioned in previous post, guided and aided at times by teachers and healers I've been fortunate enough to meet...

Cate

That's OK Cate, thank you -- after all life is a learning lesson, and one should be careful not to end up going 'around in circles inside a labyrinth'...;)

[Ross]

Hi all, just popped in and wish to contribute these thoughts.

I dont have the answers because I simply can't say for sure...but...

perhaps one day in our existence and VERY doubtful it will be in this lifetime/timeline, we will understand the 'overview' of all there is, and, at this point of awareness we may even ponder the simplistic-ness of such. However, here and now we are far from this state of awareness and for those who think they have it all sorted and have the answers, then I can only say "well done for you"

For me, I will continue on as I've always done, pondering, contemplating and 'being' whilst understanding that I am part of this world, dealing with the dualistic nature of all emotions, (the driving force of this life, it seems to me) and living amongst those who are deeply indoctinated, wether its blindly living a life in ignorance through to those who regard themselves as 'all knowing'.

Regards,

Ross.

[Arpheus]

I read this thread and promised myself I would not get near it with a ten-foot-pole:)

I am compelled to write that whenever someone posts a thread on Avalon or anywhere else which attacks a whole group of people for being "blind" or "stupid" or "foolish" "mislead" etc, I first ask myself (as I am reading such a thing), what is the person who is making this argument is trying to accomplish?

The argument is often presented--sometimes sincerely--as an attempt to "wake people up" to the true reality.

What makes you so sure there is any such thing? Even if there is such a thing, doesn't that seem like that is something each and every individual must discover for themselves?

Do you imagine it is something someone else can tell you about?

Do you imagine that one would "wake up" to this reality if one weren't ready for it?

It has been said many places that when the student is ready, the master appears.

If you believe you have the truth...whatever that is...and you shout it into the wind, what makes you any different than those religious proselytizers?

Hasn't the modality of trying to convince others of some such thing or other been outdated yet? Why waste your time trying to convince anyone of anything? Share your opinion yes, but you must acknowledge....that is only your experience, and yours alone.

A truly progressive approach to spirituality.....never proselytize, never shout in the wind.

You have spoken like a true old wise man my friend i must humbly say,well said!

[Snowbird]

I believe in a well rounded education which includes the New-Agey (I did that for Beth) as well as very controversial researchers. Little Grandmother in no way threatens me any more than Meg Benedicte whose book Soul Realized, I just received today. And after listening to John Lamb Lash this evening, I'll be ordering his book ASAP.

I don't think that what LG has to teach will harm my mind or my soul to any great extent. I own books by Neale Donald Walsch and David Icke and Dolores Cannon and Ashyana Deane (I can never spell her name right) and so many others that I cannot list them all here. I learn something important to my path in life, from each and every one of these.

Little Grandmother is not going to corrupt anyone.

I promise!! :bolt:

[fifi]

I'm still searching for truth, and don't have any evidence or proof to say who's right, who's wrong. But my gut feelings are Keisha Crowther and James Gilliland are geniune lightworkers, so is Tom Kenyon, Patricia Cori and David Wilcock. David Wilcock's information may need discernment, but his passion and intention are geniune. I do not trust Ashaya Deanne at all. But these are my own feelings, and I respect everybody's feelings and decision. Mine seems to resonate with Steven, TruthseekerDan, Greybeard, Fredkc, etc.

[truthseekerdan]

i'm not clear on how your post relates to Shiva's --??? i personally did not see fear as his motivation for writing it --???

Let me ask you this: Is LOVE a motivation for attacking someone in a negative way? :confused:

[Little Ishta]

I was really surprised to see this thread. New Age deceivers.... according to everyone there are quite a lot of New Age deceivers out there. We all have a right to our own decisions and thoughts. Free thinking. Free will. I too have thoughts on who is deceiving. But most of them all have a bit of truth to what they are saying. I have respect for all human kind. And I have my own path to follow. WE all have our own paths. We all grow at different levels. We all learn at different stages in life. But just because one person's ideals doesn't resonate with your thoughts and beliefs doesn't mean they are not right. You are at a different level so you think differently. And there is nothing wrong with that. There is an old saying, "If You Don't Have Anything Nice To Say, Don't Say Anything At All". Let people learn on their own. That is why we are here. To experience life, to learn and to grow. We all have lessons to learn.

[Zillah]

"Truth is one, the sages speak of it by many names..."

nobody is right and nobody is wrong - rather everyone is searching for the same unknown, and unknowable answer.

(joseph campbell).

[lightblue]

hiram



...........................
It has been said many places that when the student is ready, the master appears.
..........................
.......................

A truly progressive approach to spirituality.....never proselytize, never shout in the wind.


i sincerely hope shiva777 will allow for hiram's notes to conclude this discussion... :thank_you2: l



.



.

[Snowbird]

I'm still searching for truth, and don't have any evidence or proof to say who's right, who's wrong. But my gut feelings are Keisha Crowther and James Gilliland are geniune lightworkers, so is Tom Kenyon, Patricia Cori and David Wilcock. David Wilcock's information may need discernment, but his passion and intention are geniune. I do not trust Ashaya Deanne at all. But these are my own feelings, and I respect everybody's feelings and decision. Mine seems to resonate with Steven, TruthseekerDan, Greybeard, Fredkc, etc.

Yes fifi, I add all of the above to my own list....and counting.

[SkepticSoul]

All the people/teachers/preachers you guys named in this thread, i see them as mindopeners...
they bring a hole lot of new ideas into your skull (figure of speech) and alot of you guys just 'judge' in whatever way the things they bring to you as false. Why would this be false? Maybe it is because we need to learn sumthing?
I have heard and read of stories of when someone dies, you gain full knowledge and wisdom and are fully connected to source once more.
When you are at this level... Wouldn't you ALREADY know that you are/were in a false 'ascension matrix' (someone said that in previous post).
Ifso... why would you 'choose' to reincarnate BACK to that false matrix?

About judging... people...
Just don't...
Live and let live.
If you don't like an aspect or belief of someone other than you, than maybe it is because within yourself there is an aspect of that which you don't like about yourself. as the buddhists say, 'everything you see, is but a reflection of yourself'

peace

[Carrera]

Sometimes I feel people in this forum bash others, just for bashing's sake.

But at least one should get the info straight.

Personally I don't agree with everything Ms. Crowther says, but I do listen.

And when one wants to bash someone, should one not get into everything that is said by the person?

Firstly i don't get "ET saviours" from her. Doesn't she say WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR? If I recall it right, she says exactly that several times.

Secondly, I understood that she said that "the ET's" were "hiding" in the mentally disabled/retarded. Thats a huge difference from mentally ill! (I'm not sure if I agree with her in this, but I'm only stating what I understood she was saying).

Sometimes one should just get from the message what one feel sounds right for oneself. Nobody has all the answers, and her message is one of LOVE. How can that be so bad?

[sjkted]

Let me ask you this: Is LOVE a motivation for attacking someone in a negative way?

It certainly could be. There are many levels of existence.

One of the excerpts from the Jon Peniel Law of One book said that when one encounters a homeless person most people try to help by giving money, housing assistance, etc. but that these do not always address the person's real spiritual need. It was said that in some circumstances that kicking the bum could be the most compassionate act if he were to become indignant with his situation and work to improve his life.

The Zen master teaches by hitting his students with a stick when they lose focus. It teaches concentration skills.

Wild animals which have been captured when injured or raised by humans in captivity are often yelled at and poked in order to teach wilderness skills before releasing.

All of these are acts of compassion, but may not appear to be so.

Why is it when anyone calls BS on any of these new age figures are we labeled as an angry mob of unevolved thugs looking for a fight?

--sjkted

[shadowstalker]

Yes there seems to be a lot of tough love out there these days, To bad lot of us are to blind to see it as such, but that in it self is part of the process is it not?

[lightblue]

Why is it when anyone calls BS on any of these new age figures are we labeled as an angry mob of unevolved thugs looking for a fight?

--sjkted


for anyone to answer this, it would help if you stated what is it you understand by new age.... l


.

[sjkted]

New age = prelude for new world religion = a set of beliefs and mental patterns from "channeled" sources through "messengers" like Little Grandmother, David Wilcock, etc.

--sjkted

[lightblue]

New age = prelude for new world religion = a set of beliefs and mental patterns from "channeled" sources through "messengers" like Little Grandmother, David Wilcock, etc.

--sjkted

but then, the old religion/s started off as new...l


.


.

[truthseekerdan]

It certainly could be. There are many levels of existence.

One of the excerpts from the Jon Peniel Law of One book said that when one encounters a homeless person most people try to help by giving money, housing assistance, etc. but that these do not always address the person's real spiritual need. It was said that in some circumstances that kicking the bum could be the most compassionate act if he were to become indignant with his situation and work to improve his life.

The Zen master teaches by hitting his students with a stick when they lose focus. It teaches concentration skills.

Wild animals which have been captured when injured or raised by humans in captivity are often yelled at and poked in order to teach wilderness skills before releasing.

All of these are acts of compassion, but may not appear to be so.

Why is it when anyone calls BS on any of these new age figures are we labeled as an angry mob of unevolved thugs looking for a fight?

--sjkted

The reality is that it's always easier to judge others (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mathew%207:3-5&version=NIV) than to look closely at yourself.

If we want to experience a change in paradigm (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3444-(What-is)-Ascension-Yes-or-No&p=77504&viewfull=1#post77504), the only way it will happen is when one's starts with 'self' first...

JMHO :love:

[shiva777]

It's about DISCERNMENT...

sjkted///yap...sadly people don't get it ,they just see the tears,the "love" and the superficial levels of it all...another lie within a distorted hologram...just like the corrupted religions,the flakey new-agey crowd will have a BIG wake up call in the next few years...especially in 2013 onwards when so many of the flakey new-agers have been shown to be deluded by their 2012 theories and fallen channeled entities...this thread is a perfect example of how unclear and defensive many new-agers get...they hardly even addressed the issues brought up in the original post,they just threw a tantrum and judged some for judging..lol...DISCERNMENT IS ESSENTIAL...it is challenging because the new-agey opium is very addictive and people have become dependent on it

If you can't see and FEEL that the hologram is corrupted you won't get it...and many here don't

this thread titled "New age deceivers..Keisha Crowther "
got 800 hits in 6 hours...what does that tell you

I'm not going to continue with this thread because frankly,the comments of many people here are not worth a reply and I will continue to post what I experience as my "truth" in the future on other threads,.the new-agey religion needs a serious stirrer or two to get people thinking ...so I will continue to STIR IT UP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lwF8VLrIyc&feature=related

[SkepticSoul]

shiva, maybe I'm wrong about this...
but it seems it's like whatever you say is truth, and whenever sumone has sum other opinion about your view you just don't care about theirs at all. this is the vibe i'm getting from you tough trough your posts.
How do you know it is really the truth when there are so many different versions or perspectives of the truth?

[lightblue]

truthseekerdan:
The reality is that it's always easier to judge others than to look closely at yourself.
If we want to experience a change in paradigm, the only way it will happen is when one's starts with 'self' first...

JMHO

totally...l



shiva777
sjkted///yap...sadly people don't get it ,they just see the tears,the "love" and the superficial levels of it all...another lie within a distorted hologram...just like the corrupted religions,the flakey new-agey crowd will have a BIG wake up call in the next few years...especially in 2013 onwards when so many of the flakey new-agers have been shown to be deluded by their 2012 theories and fallen channeled entities...this thread is a perfect example of how unclear and defensive many new-agers get...they hardly even addressed the issues brought up in the original post,they just threw a tantrum...

what do you think gives you the authority to judge on that? i suspect your latest analysis is yet another prelude to pasting YET ANOTHER ashayana deane and/or lisa rene link to videos that you label as non-agey, therefore an essential read of every interested party...in your opinion, i personally experience them as unmistakably new-agey - new agey as in wishy-washy, substanceless tittle-tattle of a derranged mind - in the instance of deane in particular..will paste an example in a minute...



here's one of ashayana's special - selected from this forum..i felt compelled to paste it before you did...happy reading everyone ...


Default Re: Astrology of 2012

there is a MUCH bigger story to this...our dates and times were ADJUSTED by beings who did not have our interests in mind...adjusted so that the daye 21 12 2012 and the time of 11;11 would coincide with certain universal energies...the Mayans and other cultures were just as mislead as all earthlings about what's REALLY going on here...remember all of our race memory has been wiped out many times in he past 1000's of years and ET races placed themselves as Gods in our ancient cultures and people believed whatever they were told by these false "gods"

http://www.azuritepress.com/New%20Co..._summary_2.php

Why did Illuminati-Elders schedule the fulfillment of their Master Plan Prime Objective for 2012 AD?
In 22,326 BC the Illuminati Earth Templar Quest ended in a “stalemate” between Guardian and Illuminati races. Since that time, both groups knew that the “Templar Conflict Drama Showdown” would occur during the next SAC Star-Gate opening period, as the Illuminati Force required Earth’s Halls of Amenti Star-Gates to be open in order to fulfill their agenda of using inorganic Metatronic wormhole structures to “blend the Encryption Lattice of Earth’s Templar with that of the fallen Parallel Milky Way Galaxy.” Earth’s next SAC was not due until 4230 AD, but the Metatronic Fall Gate artificial wormhole structures of the Parallel Milky Way Galaxy and Parallel Earth were due to open in our time equivalent of 2012 AD.

In the 13,400 BC and 10,948 BC Earth Atlantean periods, the Illuminati Force succeeded in orchestrating two inorganic accelerations of Earth’s “wobble,” “precession of the equinox” cycle and Encryption Lattice. These accelerations caused an inorganic time-acceleration within portions of Earth’s Templar and Halls of Amenti Star-Gate system, which would cause Earth’s Halls of Amenti Star-Gates to open prematurely in the 2012–2013 AD period, for Encryption Lattice blending with the opened Fall Gate Cycle of the Parallel Milky Way Black Hole System. Earth’s Amenti Gates would open in this period only if there were a sufficient number of Illuminati-Human hybrid races on Earth to “run the bio-electronic Amenti Gate Codes” into Earth’s Templar during this “Parallel Gate Alignment.” The Illuminati Parallel Gate Alignment is called the “Alpha-Omega Alignment,” which occurs between October 2012 and February 2013, with peak alignment on December 21, 2012.

If the Illuminati-Elder agenda succeeded, Earth’s Amenti Star-Gates would be prematurely forced open to engage direct Encryption Lattice and Merkaba Field Blend with Parallel Earth, through opening of the Metatronic wormholes within the black hole center of our Milky Way Galaxy. In preparation for the “Parallel Alignment” and the Illuminati-scheduled “Earth human 2012-appointment with Illuminati destiny,” the Illuminati-Elder races progressively orchestrated the “Common-man Mass DNA Mutation” through which the Illuminati-Human line — carrying the Amenti Star-Gate codes as a result of interbreeding with the Angelic Humans — would be “ready” for the “2012–2013 AD Alpha-Omega Alignment.” (Information on the “Common-man DNA Mutation” is found in Introductory-Topics Summary-1, in Voyagers Volume-2, 2nd Edition and within various MCEO Freedom Teachings® workshop programs.)

Throughout the history of this Atlantean Drama, since the 22,326 BC “stalemate,” the GA-MCEO–Krystal River Guardians progressively attempted to postpone the “Final Conflict Drama” until the next organic Amenti Gates SAC of 4230 AD, but intended to intervene directly if the Illuminati Force attempted to orchestrate early opening of Earth’s Halls of Amenti Star-Gates in 2012 to engage the Alpha-Omega Fall Alignment. In 1984 AD the Guardians initiated the “Bridge Zone Project” Templar Restoration Mission and began early opening of the Amenti Star-Gates for the 2012–2017 period, because they discovered that Earth would meet with a cataclysmic end in the future probability of 2976 AD and thus would not make it to the next organic SAC of 4230 AD. If the Bridge Zone Project was successful, Earth’s Encryption Lattice would be restored to organic Ascension Path Alignment, and the Illuminati 2012 Master Plan of the Alpha-Omega Alignment would be prevented. With the fall of Earth’s Halls of Amenti Star-Gates to Metatronic Illuminati control in 2003, the Bridge Zone Project evolutionary option failed by 2006. Thus Earth is currently in the middle of the covert “Final Conflict Drama” and rapidly approaching the Illuminati 2012 Alpha-Omega Alignment and their intended “Last Extinction” agenda. (Information on the “Bridge Zone Project” and Amenti Star-Gates is found in Voyagers Volume-2, 2nd Edition and within various MCEO Freedom Teachings® workshop programs.)

The date of 2012 AD was chosen by the Illuminati-Elder races as the point of fulfillment for their Master Plan Prime Objective because this is the date-period in which the Fall-Gate system of Parallel Earth and Parallel Milky Way open into the Metatronic wormholes in our Galactic Core. It is thus the point in time at which the Alpha-Omega Alignment between Earth’s accelerated Templar and the fallen Parallel Galactic Templar system can engage inorganic Metatronic Blending through the Metatronic wormhole system in the black hole core of our Milky Way Galaxy. Simply put, the Metatronic Encryption Lattice of Earth’s Halls of Amenti Star-Gates aligns with that of the fallen Parallel Earth and Milky Way, through our Galactic Core, to engage the “Alpha-Omega Fall Path Alignment.”

What is the core purpose behind the Illuminati Master Plan Prime Objective of forcing Earth into “Alpha-Omega Fall Path Alignment” in 2012 — and how can they achieve this Prime Objective?
During the “Illuminati Templar victory” of the 10,948 BC Atlantean period, the Illuminati force succeeded in establishing a long-range electromagnetic wormhole-link between the Solar Star-Gates at the core of our Sun, and those at the core of our “Parallel Sun” within the Parallel Milky Way Galaxy. The Illuminati-Elder races refer to the Fall-aligned black hole system of the Parallel Milky Way Galaxy as the “Alpha Wormhole System,” as it is the “beginning point” from which their progressive invasion into our Milky Way Galaxy was launched long ago. The Illuminati-Elders refer to our Milky Way Galaxy as the “Omega Wormhole System,” as it is the “intended end point” at which their progressive invasion will be complete, with the fulfillment of the Illuminati Master Plan Prime Objective; hence the term “Alpha-Omega Fall Path Alignment.”

When the Illuminati-Elder races achieved their 10,948 BC Templar victory through large-scale Metatronic “Bloom of Doom” Death Science applications, and successfully created the inorganic long-range electromagnetic wormhole-link between our Sun’s core Solar Star-Gates and those of the Parallel Sun, this “wormhole link” enabled the Illuminati-Elders to create a massive solar space-time anomaly called the “Solar Time-Torus Tunnel.” The “Solar Time-Torus Tunnel” formed an inorganic “vesica piscis” blend, and resultant anomalous “Tube Torus–shaped” Metatronic space-time adhesion field, between our Milky Way Galaxy and the Parallel Milky Way Galaxy, through the core Star-Gates of their respective suns. With creation of the Solar Time-Torus Tunnel, our Solar System became an inorganic “binary star system,” with the orbit of our Sun directly, unnaturally tied to the orbit of its invisible Parallel Sun.

At the 10,948 BC point in time where the Solar Time-Torus Tunnel was created, the solar orbit cycles brought the Solar Star-Gates of both suns into direct alignment with the core Star-Gates of their respective Galactic Cores. Through the inorganic link of the Solar Time-Torus Tunnel, the core Star-Gates of our Milky Way Galaxy were inorganically “wormhole-linked” to the core Star-Gates of the Fall-aligned Parallel Milky Way Galaxy; this Galactic Core wormhole link created a second, massive Tube Torus–shaped intergalactic space-time adhesion field, surrounding the smaller Solar Time-Torus Tunnel. The intergalactic space-time adhesion field created an inorganic intergalactic space-time displacement field called the “Great Toral Rift Time Rip” — also known as the “Great Rift of Space-Time” — between our Milky Way and the Parallel Milky Way galaxies. (The ancient Maya referred to the Toral Rift as the “Black Road.”) Illuminati-Elder forces from the Fall-aligned Parallel “Alpha” Milky Way Galaxy had been attempting for eons, long before Earth became ensnared in the drama, to create the intergalactic “Toral Rift Time Rip” anomaly; this anomaly represented the “final missing piece” of the “intergalactic Metatronic Alpha-Omega wormhole puzzle” they had been painstakingly assembling over many millions of years to fulfill the Prime Objective of their Omega System Invasion Master Plan. Though the Alpha Illuminati-Elders had come close to creating the “intergalactic Alpha-Omega Toral Rift anomaly” during various periods of intergalactic history, they did not fully succeed in this endeavor until their Templar victory of the 10,948 BC Earth Atlantis.

The Prime Objective of the Omega System Invasion Master Plan, for which the Alpha Illuminati-Elder races created the intergalactic Toral Rift space-time rip and corresponding Alpha-Omega Wormhole Networks, was quite simple and single-minded. The Parallel Milky Way Alpha Galaxy long ago entered final Fall Alignment to become a self-contained, finite-quantum “Quarantined Black Hole Fall System” that was destined, by the eternal Cosmic Laws of Cause, Effect and Consequence, to engage the “Path of Space-dust Return” upon expiration of its finite quanta, and resultant full-system particle/ anti-particle annihilation. The “fallen” Alpha Illuminati-Elder races devised their Omega Invasion Master Plan agenda with the Prime Objective of “ensnaring further quanta of living energy with which to feed their dying system,” in order to “indefinitely postpone the inevitable Space-dust Return” of their galaxy.

The Alpha Illuminati-Elders employed large-scale use of the Metatronic “Bloom of Doom” Death Sciences to create the inorganic intergalactic Alpha-Omega Wormhole Networks, and to create the intergalactic “Great Toral Rift” of 10,948 BC. The specific purpose of the Toral Rift Time Rip intergalactic space-time displacement field was, and is, to draw the living energy quanta of the Milky Way Galaxy into their Fall-aligned Parallel Milky Way Galaxy Black Hole, in order to “feed the quantum spin” of their falling galaxy to postpone the organic consequence of its implosion. If the Alpha Illuminati-Elders could succeed in this Prime Objective, they believed they would then be able to “enlarge the plan” by “devouring other neighboring galaxies,” following the expansion cycle ratios of the Fibonacci spiral, to orchestrate an artificial facsimile Second-Creation that could perpetually sustain itself through “Forced Metatronic Feeding” from the living “First-Creation” systems of the eternal-life Cosmos.

When the Alpha Illuminati-Elders succeeded in creating the “Great Toral Rift” intergalactic space-time displacement field in 10,948 BC Atlantis — through first creating the “Solar Time-Torus Tunnel” wormhole-link between our Solar Core Star-Gates and those of the Parallel Sun — a second time-acceleration of Earth’s “polar wobble” was simultaneously initiated. The second “Earth-pole wobble acceleration” hastened the SAC of a portion of Earth’s Halls of Amenti Star-Gates, bringing this cycle into direct synchronization with the SAC opening period of the Parallel Earth Amenti Star-Gates. Because of this 10,948 BC Earth-time-acceleration and subsequent inorganic Earth/ Parallel Earth Amenti Star-Gate synchronization, Earth’s Amenti Star-Gates would open prematurely, during the 2012 AD opening of the Parallel Earth Amenti Star-Gates. When the intergalactic planetary Amenti Star-Gate sets begin synchronized opening in October 2012, Earth and Parallel Earth will engage Metatronic “Alpha-Omega Fall Alignment.” (Information on the “1st and 2nd Earth-pole wobble accelerations” and synchronization of the SACs of the Amenti Star-Gates of Earth and Parallel Earth is found in Introductory-Topics Summary-1.)

As the two artificially synchronized SACs initiate their Amenti Star-Gate opening cycles with opening of the Solar and Parallel Solar Core Star-Gates, the central inorganic 10,948 BC Solar Time-Torus Tunnel wormhole-link between our Sun and the Parallel Sun will also open. If the Illuminati Master Plan Prime Objective unfolds in 2012 as the Illuminati-Elders intend, opening of the Solar Time-Torus Tunnel wormhole will then open the inorganic intergalactic Alpha-Omega Wormholes at the Galactic Cores of our Milky Way Galaxy and the Parallel Milky Way Galaxy, resultantly opening the 10,948 BC intergalactic Toral Rift Time Rip Metatronic space-time displacement field of the “Atlantean past,” into the “future period” of the present 2012 AD. Once the Atlantean Toral Rift opens into the fabric of our contemporary 2012-space-time, an anomalous space-time blend of “past and future-present converging” will unfold. As the two planetary Amenti Star-Gate sets open into their respective Solar Star-Gate Alignments, Earth and Parallel Earth will be brought into the Alpha-Omega Fall Alignment of the 10,948 BC Toral Rift Time Rip.

Once the Amenti Star-Gates of Earth and Parallel Earth engage with the 10,948 BC Atlantean Toral Rift Time Rip, Earth and Parallel Earth, and Sun and Parallel Sun, will then initiate a Cataclysmic Pole Shift of the geomagnetic fields and Geographical “Crust Roll” Rotation at the Alpha-Omega Fall Alignment peak of December 21, 2012, to resume the planetary and solar polar-alignments that were/are present in the 10,948 BC period. During the 10,948 BC period, the Solar Star-Gates of both our Sun and Parallel Sun were in direct alignment with the Galactic Core Star-Gates of their respective Galactic Cores, which allowed for opening of the intergalactic wormholes at the core of both galaxies, through which the Toral Rift Time Rip space-time displacement field was created. When contemporary Earth and Parallel Earth, Sun and Parallel Sun resume the Galactic Core–aligned planetary and solar polar-alignments of the 10,948 BC period, the energy quanta of our Solar System and those of the Parallel Solar System will be progressively compressed and drawn “backward in time,” the quanta of the two solar systems first compacting into a “vesica piscis” bond at the center of the Toral Rift space-time displacement field.

The process by which our Solar System and its Parallel Solar System are “drawn back in time” into the Toral Rift Time Rip involves Metatronic Death Science “Death Star” distorted Merkaba Vortex Mechanics. The energy quanta of our Solar System, and those of the Parallel Solar System, first compact into a “vesica piscis” bond at the core of the Toral Rift Time Rip, as the Merkaba Field Vortex–set of each respective sun is progressively attracted into opposite-polarity electromagnetic bond with the Merkaba Field of the other sun; as the two suns are drawn into the Toral Rift “Harness Field,” their orbits — and their corresponding solar systems — progressively intersect to form a “vesica piscis” orbital bond. As the two solar systems progressively “collide” to engage the “vesica piscis” orbit, they are both drawn “backward in time” toward the 10,948 BC center creation point of the Toral Rift space-time displacement field.

As the two solar systems draw backward in time, the spin-speeds of their respective Merkaba Fields progressively accelerate. When the spin of our mutated “same-spin–vortex-set” Solar Merkaba Field reaches “34 spin-speed,” and the likewise-mutated “same-spin vortex-set” of the Parallel Solar Merkaba Field simultaneously reaches “21 counter-spin-speed,” the two Solar Merkaba Fields and their contents are drawn together and begin “backward-time progression“ toward the center-point of the Toral Rift’s Tube Torus–shaped “Metatronic Harness Field.” As the two Solar Merkaba Fields merge, the faster 34-spin Solar Merkaba Field reverses the spin of the slower 21-spin Parallel Solar Merkaba Field, and the two Solar Merkaba Fields accelerate to “55 spin-speed,” blending to form a large, singular, inorganic External Metatronic Merkaba Field same-spin vortex-set, with an internal, Metatronic Death Star Atomic-Encasement Harness surrounding the quanta of the two solar systems held within it.

Following the Fibonacci expansion sequence, the Blended Solar Merkaba Field accelerates from its “55 starting spin-speed” to a “144 spin-speed,” at which point it generates an external Thermal-Encasement Field and “jumps the organic boundaries space-time-light,” entering a superluminal state to pass into the center-point of the 10,948 BC Toral Rift Time Rip — where it becomes an externally fueled, finite-life “Death Star External Merkaba Vehicle Black Hole Feeder Field.” Once formed, the Death Star External Merkaba Vehicle begins “quantum feeding” from the remaining local living-energy environments of our Milky Way and the Parallel Milky Way galaxies, initiating quantum growth and spin-speed acceleration, following the Fibonacci expansion sequence, through perpetual “quantum feeding” from the life-fields of both galaxies







.
.

[wynderer]

It's about DISCERNMENT...

sjkted///yap...sadly people don't get it ,they just see the tears,the "love" and the superficial levels of it all...another lie within a distorted hologram...just like the corrupted religions,the flakey new-agey crowd will have a BIG wake up call in the next few years...especially in 2013 onwards when so many of the flakey new-agers have been shown to be deluded by their 2012 theories and fallen channeled entities...this thread is a perfect example of how unclear and defensive many new-agers get...they hardly even addressed the issues brought up in the original post,they just threw a tantrum and judged some for judging..lol...DISCERNMENT IS ESSENTIAL...it is challenging because the new-agey opium is very addictive and people have become dependent on it

If you can't see and FEEL that the hologram is corrupted you won't get it...and many here don't

this thread titled "New age deceivers..Keisha Crowther "
got 800 hits in 6 hours...what does that tell you

I'm not going to continue with this thread because frankly,the comments of many people here are not worth a reply and I will continue to post what I experience as my "truth" in the future on other threads,.the new-agey religion needs a serious stirrer or two to get people thinking ...so I will continue to STIR IT UP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lwF8VLrIyc&feature=related

keep on stirring, Shiva777 -- this world is NOT all light & love by a long shot -- the NWO is gaining more control, especially of human minds, w/every passing day -- abductions by greys, reptilians, & other beings continue, violating the free will of Earth humans-- the ETs in control of this planet are NOT our buddies & are not visitors -- they are invaders -- keep on stirring

[Wood]

keep on stirring, Shiva777 -- this world is NOT all light & love by a long shot -- the NWO is gaining more control, especially of human minds, w/every passing day -- abductions by greys, reptilians, & other beings continue, violating the free will of Earth humans-- the ETs in control of this planet are NOT our buddies & are not visitors -- they are invaders -- keep on stirring

And yet we have plenty of Hollywood movies portraying ETs as invaders. Since Hollywood is controlled by the PTBs this means either they fear some good ETs arriving or that they want to cook up our reaction towards a staged invasion to start NWO.

[wynderer]

And yet we have plenty of Hollywood movies portraying ETs as invaders. Since Hollywood is controlled by the PTBs this means either they fear some good ETs arriving or that they want to cook up our reaction towards a staged invasion to start NWO.

my big hope is that good ETs are on their way, & the invader kinds of movies are preparation/propaganda for getting humans to see them as enemies -- i like to imagine that this is why the DUMBS are being built worldwide & why all the money spent on weaponizing space -- that the reptilian/grey/human sell-out NWO knows help for Earth is on the way, & they are making preparations to hide & fight

sometimes this ET stuff can make one's head spin -- i've never spent time on any subject that has so many layers of confusion & sometimes deception --

[PathWalker]

To me it seems that Kiesha teaching are biased toward service to others. Ashayna teaching are biased toward service to self. Both are coming from the source and diverge on distinguishing the issues need to be addressed at each polarity.

The big response to this thread is a great reflection to the spiritual polarity we experience.
Observing and identifying this polarity is great tool, to the one being able to identify polarity. As well as great obstacle to those captured into self centered learning style (in both polarities).

A spiritual teacher in flesh is bringing in her personality, this personality is an expression tool as well. The fresh student begin by relating to the teacher personality later learn to evaluate with their intellect (if not completely polarized).

Shiva777 is great provoker and he enjoy this role. I was in this role not long ago. It is a great service to the mature student, and a hinder to the novice student. The provoker receives the corresponding Karma as well.
Good luck

[FrankoL]

I completely understand what Shiva wants to point out. In these days there is hyperinflation of cheap preachers. There is no preparation what so ever. I really appreciate work of David Wilcock, David Icke, Jordan Maxwell and many others. You can feel the hard study, they truly research the matter and their stories are presented with great details (usually with references). Even thou they might be far away form the truth. It doesn't matter. What it does for sure, it opens your mind for new direction, ones you would probably never take.

In comparison,... for instance KC work, is IMO shallow in that respect (but she made me cry at first, no more after that).

[Hiram]

It's about DISCERNMENT...

sjkted///yap...sadly people don't get it ,they just see the tears,the "love" and the superficial levels of it all...another lie within a distorted hologram...just like the corrupted religions,the flakey new-agey crowd will have a BIG wake up call in the next few years...especially in 2013 onwards when so many of the flakey new-agers have been shown to be deluded by their 2012 theories and fallen channeled entities...this thread is a perfect example of how unclear and defensive many new-agers get...they hardly even addressed the issues brought up in the original post,they just threw a tantrum and judged some for judging..lol...DISCERNMENT IS ESSENTIAL...it is challenging because the new-agey opium is very addictive and people have become dependent on it

If you can't see and FEEL that the hologram is corrupted you won't get it...and many here don't

this thread titled "New age deceivers..Keisha Crowther "
got 800 hits in 6 hours...what does that tell you

I'm not going to continue with this thread because frankly,the comments of many people here are not worth a reply and I will continue to post what I experience as my "truth" in the future on other threads,.the new-agey religion needs a serious stirrer or two to get people thinking ...so I will continue to STIR IT UP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lwF8VLrIyc&feature=related

Shiva,

You have a strong spirit, and none can diminish that strength. It is apparent to all who are here. Unfortunately the polarizing nature and tone of your post, the very words you choose to use proves my point.

If your intent is to get people to use discernment...and that is the point...do you suggest we should pay attention to someone who writes what I am reading above? I'm sorry, but when someone writes that I have to question the motivation. You don't get people to think reasonably and use discernment by telling them they are "flakey" and using pejorative terms like "New-Agey". This things work against what you are trying to accomplish.

To be quite honest, if I had a friend and they were persuaded by your argument above, i would have to question my friends discernment. I would ask that friend why they chose to pay attention to someone who writes "I'm not going to continue with this thread because frankly,the comments of many people here are not worth a reply "

If this is the general attitude and is typical of those who have woken up from the holographic matrix, perhaps I wish to remain in it for the time being?

[sjkted]

Perhaps it would be easier if we just made love and light videos and lied to you.

--sjkted

[lightblue]

pathwalker:
Shiva777 is great provoker and he enjoy this role. I was in this role not long ago. It is a great service to the mature student, and a hinder to the novice student. The provoker receives the corresponding Karma as well.
Good luck

i think you are kind and very generous in this characterisation...a provoker with an agenda (if in the service of promoting ashayana deane and/or lisa rene) is what's more fitting in my view based on reading many a post by shiva777...this has been consistent over a period of many months or in about 80% of shiva777's postings..really boring and by now irritating.. :yawn: l


.


.

[bashi]

I listen to Keisha Crowther. Up until recently I never had a bone to pick with her information or delivery - but the recent round of talks gave me pause for thought. Whereas previously her material was passing the discernment filters, recently one or two items got "stopped at the door". At this point I wondered myself if her "channel" had been compromised.

Does this make Kiesha a bad person? No. In the same way that Blossom Goodchild is not a bad person.

Love is her strongest message and it is that part of her message I personally recommend is the one to focus on.


Yes, the same happened with me.
I posted the “Kiesha in Santa Fe” vid without seeing through it. After doing that, I was somehow struggling not to blast it off the thread again. During watching it i was several times tempted to just click it away.
Kiesha had changed somehow her way of presentation, and was taking guidance from notes.
What struck me was mostly in part 5, where she made some “bold” predictions of what will change in 2010 (less than 25 days to go!):

1. Government cover-ups will get exposed: UFO cover-up, Healing cover ups, human psychic phenomena cover ups.
2. New discoveries which will lead to a life expectancy > 90 year.
3. Child labour will be completely exposed and will end.

All in 2010 ! She laid specific emphasis on that.

She claims to have been shown (in visions, I assume) a large tower made of pipe and wires, with a pyramid and ball on top. She obviously refers to the tower which Tesla had built around 100 years ago.
That tower has (allegedly) been constructed and “is working and functioning properly”.
“It is capable to produce enough energy for the whole planet”.

“Big power has to stop!...therefore it’s ok that China or Europe owns part of the US!”
That is a more than questionable statement…

The whole presentation was a kind of mismatching patchwork of prophecies, apart from the “we are the strongest of the strong” slogan.
This clumsiness made her actually sympathetic again, as she was actually struggling to maintain a line. But that does not make the messages easier to accept for me.
I do not want to put her or her intent down, but I begin smelling a rat in regard of the source of her channelling.
Well, I think in 25 days we will know…

[Hiram]

Perhaps it would be easier if we just made love and light videos and lied to you.

--sjkted

I am no advocate of Keisha Crowther, nor have I argued with the personal opinions either Shiva or yourself have espoused here. I enjoy reading your opinions and personal philosophy. It just you make the same error most humans make in confusing your own personal philosophy with what actually IS.

Instead of regarding your philosophy as yours and yours alone, you have confabulated this to be "truth"----Which is just another element of human conceit.

The point i was making, which you you fail to address with this comment, is:

1) Your presentation of your argument is admonishing, diminishing and demeaning of others opinions--who may happen to like and agree with what Ms. Crowther espouses. You are not simply disagreeing with the message, (which is your right), you are also attempting to castigate those who support it. What is your intention with that? I have my own philosophy as well, what care have I whether you listen or believe it? Because someone doesn't believe what i believe I would never refer to them as "Flakey". Isn't that a bit presumptuous?

2) What makes you feel you have sole possession of the truth here? Isn't it fair to say that there are elements of truth in many things--including Ms. Crowther?

I would like an explanation for the disdain presented towards what you call "new-agey". Also, isn't it possible those same points of disdain can be applied to any philosophy, including your own?

[lightblue]

.
bashi
What struck me was mostly in part 5, where she made some “bold” predictions of what will change in 2010 (less than 25 days to go!):

seems the accuracy of the dates is what you are after and what you gave a scathing criticism for – most unfair…. i keenly follow your postings because you write about what i have no knowledge of, for the most part i don’t….that’s why i remember how quick you were at the time to post a video of swarming ufo in new york on october 13th - it was irresistible to conclude in support of colleen thomas’s prediction to do with that date….so does colleen thomas make a more credible “prophetess” for getting this right?

i think not... :yu: l

.

[bashi]

.
bashi

seems the accuracy of the dates is what you are after and what you gave a scathing criticism for – most unfair…. i keenly follow your postings because you write about what i have no knowledge of, for the most part i don’t….that’s why i remember how quick you were at the time to post a video of swarming ufo in new york on october 13th - it was irresistible to conclude in support of colleen thomas’s prediction to do with that date….so does colleen thomas make a more credible “prophetess” for getting this right?

i think not... :yu: l

.


Wrong facts:
It was not Colleen Thomas, but a retired officer called Stanley A. Fulham, this thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5554-Tentative-Worldwide-UFO-Display-on-October-13-2010

My first post was this:
"Carbondioxide POLLUTION , channelling, Al CIAda etc...
This 13 October deadline looks more like a time-limited advertisement campain... "
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?5554-Tentative-Worldwide-UFO-Display-on-October-13-2010&p=56458&viewfull=1#post56458

A bit critical, and so i was only surprised to see some action on the 13th.
Should i have kept quiet instead?
I did not know about Colleens prediction and i dont care. I consider her to be "dammaged goods".

:nhl_checking:
.

[Niobe]

I understand that most people interested in spirituality on this site will be "new-agers"...following Drunvalo,Cannon,Walsch,Wilcock etc,etc...and won't understand the subtleties of how that "religion" and it's High priests such as Neale Walsch are just teaching people to be happier within their prison walls...
...http://www.pfcn.net/Bulletins/Flaw%20in%20Creation%20-%20July%202007.pdf

Yes, I'd much rather be miserable in my prison walls....... /sigh

[Snowbird]

Perhaps it would be easier if we just made love and light videos and lied to you.

--sjkted

In contrast to the hatred and the infighting and the ever-present duality in which we live, a healthy dose of love and light can be just what the doctor ordered.

Shiva is an ardent student of Lisa Renee, for example. I happen to respect her teachings too, but that's not the point. The point is that there is absolutely no way of proving anything that Lisa Renee teaches or expounds. Ashayana Deane is another teacher whose informational sources cannot be verified by anyone...including her. Every one of these teacher/preachers is teaching something new for this "new age" that is approaching. They each have a unique approach to their topics at hand and each teaching is specifically geared for the "new age" that is rapidly coming upon us.

Love and light are from the old schools, not the new.

[truthseekerdan]

Love and light are from the old schools, not the new.

The "darkness" (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mathew%207:20&version=CEV), cannot stand the Love & light -- that explains all this commotion...:ohwell:

[Humble Janitor]

I have seen it far too often around here.

People are still dressing up as indians, going by their grandmother's stories (which they think are enough to support their so-called native identities) and now they are attempting to invade state government and gain recognition for their new-age baloney incorporations (I refuse to call them tribes).

It definitely has to be stopped. I doubt that Crowther's intentions are as sinister as those of the people I deal with on a daily basis. Still, you should not do such things because they show that you have no integrity and you are robbing those of legitimate heritage.

[lightblue]

bashi

A bit critical, and so i was only surprised to see some action on the 13th.
Should i have kept quiet instead?
I did not know about Colleens prediction and i dont care. I consider her to be "dammaged goods".


:nhl_checking:





the facts may be wrong, but all is well with the truth… it is faultless, alive and kicking and it won’t be kicked about by this :nhl_checking: little fellow...

you say you don’t know of colleen’s and that you do not care and i say you must have given her more than a casual listening to come up with the “damaged goods” verdict… l


.

[bashi]

bashi



the facts may be wrong, but all is well with the truth… it is faultless, alive and kicking and it won’t be kicked about by this :nhl_checking: little fellow...

you say you don’t know of colleen’s and that you do not care and i say you must have given her more than a casual listening to come up with the “damaged goods” verdict… l


.

I guess that truth is based on facts…
Well, my opinion about Colleen was formed after i did my homework on her.
Did you do your homework and saw all parts of the Kiesha vid?

A question here:
Do you really believe that “All child-labour will end” in just 24 days? From today on?
Please answer that question. :yu:

[lightblue]

I guess that truth is based on facts…

think your guess is wrong...in the world of propaganda, lawyers, courts, demagogues and such, yes they are....they provide a shortcut to a quick and easy way out of the pressing, troublesome questions we may have no ready answers for…not in my world, no… i am sure that facts are based on truth and not the other way around...facts always leg behind a greater understanding… there’s never enough facts to account for the truth.

Well, my opinion about Colleen was formed after i did my homework on her.

so it is not you didn’t know of colleen’s…so it is not you didn’t care..…

Did you do your homework and saw all parts of the Kiesha vid?

no, i am no match for your analytical skills…my professional trait i admit.. i am thought to always look at the whole first and foremost and .only then look and work on details…not a scientist, i am a painter (as in visual arts)..a clash of methods, no doubt...

A question here:
Do you really believe that “All child-labour will end” in just 24 days? From today on?
Please answer that question.

my answer here would be inconsequential…. references of belief serve as a point of orientation only and cannot be a premise to conclusions… l :yu:

[bashi]

no discussion is also a discussion;
no answer is also an answer...

[misty_moon5]

[I]Also I would not presume that these so-called “ancestors” to some of these indigenous groups are really so evolved spiritually. This is all part of the falsehoods that are woven into the new age/indigenous wisdom cults and myths to prepare some humans to accept ET’s as their saviors or long-lost “family

thank you for this -- it seems to be common among white newagers in the USA to believe that our Native Americans automatically know more about/possess more wisdom re the Spirit & spiritual matters, just because they are Native -- i recently read Jim Marrs' 'Alien Agenda' -- according to him, some of the Native tribes who live where animal mutilations take place don't like to talk about them, the mutilations, other than saying that the 'space brothers' know what they are doing -- i really don't think that the animal mutilators are highly developed spiritually

I am Native American from the Cree Nation of Canada, I can't believe that Native Americans are still 'Labeled' in 2010. I speak my Cree language, and we do not have a word for 'Alien or E.T's' in our language -- not sure what tribe or nation you are referring to when you say that we accept E.T's as our savior or long lost family. When our elders talk / teach the children, they talk about respecting all life: earth, four elements, animals and all tribes. When we pray, we pray to the Creator/God .. not to some Alien being ...

We follow our culture/ancient spiritual practices, but do not broadcast out to the public what we do in our ceremonies cause these are very sacred. I have not seen or heard of any mention of any Alien beings or E.T.'s in any of our ceremonies. Many of our ceremonies are conducted in the Cree language and for an outsider to come in & totally experience what is being performed -- the translation to English would be lost.

Hard to believe in this day & age, but we do use Ipod's, computer's, and telephones .. omg .. and yeah we have our own money to buy whatever we want -- so what --- lol. Our day's of teepee's and hunting buffalo is long gone -- but we do still practice our ancient ceremonies that don't include Alien's or E.T.'s.

As Keisha Crowther, she is being invesitgated by the Sioux & Salish Nation for fraud. She does not speak for our Nation's, whatever she has learned is obviously made up for her to make money.

[misty_moon5]

I would like to share one of our many social dances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSN6vCGquDA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0M30epUVg

Our dances and songs are still alive.

[Zillah]

The "darkness" (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mathew%207:20&version=CEV), cannot stand the Love & light -- that explains all this commotion...:ohwell:

I've heard the expression somewhere before - if you are confronted by someone who is being awful to you, dont fight fire with fire, just love them even more - that will surely piss em off ;)

[Deega]

I understand that most people interested in spirituality on this site will be "new-agers"...following Drunvalo,Cannon,Walsch,Wilcock etc,etc...and won't understand the subtleties of how that "religion" and it's High priests such as Neale Walsch are just teaching people to be happier within their prison walls...they sincerely offer lots of useful and helpful understandings to deal with life but not enough to get out of the FALSE ASCENSION MATRIX,,just enough to keep you happily following it

this is one of the fundamental understandings that explains that much of what the new age teachers are preaching is just another clever manipulation of the masses...REALLY THINK AND FEEL into this...it turns the new-age religion on it's head and explains that the hologram we live in is not an ORGANIC creation,it is an inorganic hologram based on false geometries and physics created by "fallen angels" or negative ET's/Annunaki/Dracs etc...the new-agey mainstream teachers and ancient cultures do and did not understand that in most cases ...http://www.pfcn.net/Bulletins/Flaw%20in%20Creation%20-%20July%202007.pdf

Hi Shiva777,

May you share what you are following...!, yourself, gods, God, mystics, or some other forces, you might suggest...!

All my blessings.

Deega

[lisa]

There are many opinions about the Norway Spiral: UFO, Energy Weapon, Freeman said HAARP, and Kiesha said they bring us new energy and life (and there were in fact many spirals seen all over the world).
shiva777, could you explain how you know that Direct Energy Weaponry made the spiral? Thanks!

The message out of Santa Fe was "Remember who you are.", "We are all gods and goddesses." and "We can create our own future." The message out of Zurich was "Love and Be Love". If only a third of the people do that, the world would change. I love these wonderful messages and wish more people are living them.

It does give me pause that:
* She charges for the workshops. However, she does have to travel to the workshops, and spend time preparing them. Moreover, she made the videos free.
* Make timed predictions. I think the future is highly changeable depending on what everyone does.

If she tell people to be very afraid because a pole shift is coming and run for the bunkers, I would run away. But for now, I love Kiesha... her gentle, loving demeanor... her refreshing messages. And I am thankful that she is out there spreading love.

[sjkted]

I am no advocate of Keisha Crowther, nor have I argued with the personal opinions either Shiva or yourself have espoused here. I enjoy reading your opinions and personal philosophy. It just you make the same error most humans make in confusing your own personal philosophy with what actually IS.

I don't have a personal philosophy. I accept some things as pragmatic, but I'm certainly not omniscient.



Instead of regarding your philosophy as yours and yours alone, you have confabulated this to be "truth"----Which is just another element of human conceit.


No, I'm just calling BS on the parts of her message that are misleading and the source which is not acting in the best interests of humanity.




The point i was making, which you you fail to address with this comment, is:

1) Your presentation of your argument is admonishing, diminishing and demeaning of others opinions--who may happen to like and agree with what Ms. Crowther espouses. You are not simply disagreeing with the message, (which is your right), you are also attempting to castigate those who support it. What is your intention with that? I have my own philosophy as well, what care have I whether you listen or believe it? Because someone doesn't believe what i believe I would never refer to them as "Flakey". Isn't that a bit presumptuous?


I'm not calling names here.




2) What makes you feel you have sole possession of the truth here? Isn't it fair to say that there are elements of truth in many things--including Ms. Crowther?


There are many elements of truth in her message. It's the deceptive part I'm focusing on. Keisha is not the only one to have spoken with this source and what her message is the same for nearly all of the people who receive the message. I'm just saying that the source does not have the best interests of humanity in mind and is focused on subtle subversion.



I would like an explanation for the disdain presented towards what you call "new-agey". Also, isn't it possible those same points of disdain can be applied to any philosophy, including your own?


Doubtful. I accept the things that I don't understand rather than clinging to belief systems. My mind is open, but I've already been through this one and I'll call it out.

--sjkted

[sjkted]

misty_moon5: can you elaborate what the Sioux and Salish tribes are investigating Keisha for? Is she promoting her message as coming from those tribes or does it extend beyond that?

--sjkted

[Gone002]

very good read and very true

[truthseekerdan]

misty_moon5: can you elaborate what the Sioux and Salish tribes are investigating Keisha for? Is she promoting her message as coming from those tribes or does it extend beyond that?

--sjkted

Full of air...:rolleyes:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8191-Keisha-speaks-on-2012&p=70924&viewfull=1#post70924

[lisa]

No, I'm just calling BS on the parts of her message that are misleading and the source which is not acting in the best interests of humanity.

sjkted, could you list the parts you find misleading? Also, what is "the source" and how is it related to Kiesha? Thanks!

[truthseekerdan]

I decided to include some facts here about Keisha (Little Grandmother) -- Source: http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEFROMLG.aspx

Is Kiesha Really Native American? Is she a Legitimate Shaman?

Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and recognized as a shaman by the elders of this tribe at age 30 (she had actually been recognized and marked out at age 8 as a future shaman while attending a tribal ceremony.) However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”. The elders were full aware that Kiesha did not know the indigenous ways… She was never intended to lead traditional ceremony in a tribal context, or to present herself as a representative of her particular tribe and its indigenous ways. To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of her tribe’s traditions. Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption—but especially since she has become well-known, Kiesha has tried to never present or describe herself as a Sioux or Salish shaman. She is a Native American shaman, and this would be technically correct to say since she is part-Native American and was made shaman by her family’s tribe—However, she does not use this language because it implies that she is working within a traditional context. She has been taught to pray and lead ceremony in certain ways, and many of these are in fact traditional ways. But she does not pretend to know or to follow the traditions to a tee. That is not her role and purpose. If it were, she would have been summoned to move back to Montana and live among the tribe, serving as shaman there. While tribal members do occasionally seek her out and are referred to her for counsel, blessings, and healings (offered freely of course), her primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—which includes non-indigenous people of all backgrounds. Beyond her work as shaman, one of her major roles as wisdom-keeper is to speak and share the “messages” she receives with people all over the planet.

Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?

Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since. These peoples regard her as the incarnation of something very important—which Keisha has never wanted to make public or to give weight to. Frankly, the weight and responsibility of what many of these peoples regard her as is extremely intimidating to her and makes her anxious.
Kiesha’s elders are not from just one tribe—She is being guided by elders who comprise the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders from indigenous peoples all over the planet, as well as receiving direct teaching from spirit guides and indigenous elders past of several different traditions, including the Sioux and Salish. Whether this seems incredible and unbelievable to some, this is the case—If some people think that matters of utmost sacredness should conform to our cultural expectations and prerogatives, that Kiesha should be teaching tribal ways and if she is not then she cannot be a legitimate shaman and wisdom keeper--no one will be able to convince them otherwise. I personally have witnessed Kiesha receive teaching messages in Sioux (which she does not speak) from ancestors past. Why was a young white-looking woman who is not a full-blooded “Indian” and who grew up away from her ancestral tribe recognized as shaman by the tribal elders? This is a question to ask those who made her as shaman—she did not decide to become a shaman one day but was called to be.

Why do some Native Americans not know of her, and why do some Native Americans question her legitimacy?

Kiesha has received overwhelming support from indigenous people of many many tribes… There will always be individuals, both Native and non-Native, who question, who judge, who think that Kiesha is another white “imposter” appropriating Native American ways for profit. Unfortunately, our culture has too much of this, and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some people will be justifiably miffed that such a blond young white woman, not raised on the reservation, would be made shaman… passing over more suitable and appropriate candidates-- this might be the feeling of some people in her own family’s tribe, especially as many of them do not know her. But Kiesha, while Native American by blood and initiated by her family’s tribe, does not presume or pretend to present traditional Native ways and wisdom to the public. What she is speaking of includes and yet goes beyond indigenous prophecies and wisdom, and she does not teach the spiritual ways and customs of any particular tribe, but the wisdom she is taught by her spirit guides and asked to share, that crosses cultural boundaries. She is not implying that it is not important to preserve and present indigenous traditions in their fullness and purity, but only that it is not her role to do so, since she is not working in a tribal context but in a multicultural context. With utmost respect for her ancestral traditions, and for indigenous wisdom and ways, she has been taught that the time has come for all people to unite as children of one Mother, and to recognize a common brotherhood within the heart’s wisdom—that is neither indigenous nor non-indigenous, though the indigenous peoples of the earth hold powerful keys in remembering the way.

[sjkted]

The parts I find misleading are the inferences to future events and the parts about what will happen. These are incorrect. If anything is to happen, it is because we made it -- not because we sat back and God did it for us.

The source is her spirit guides and channeled sources. This is a mixed bag and it's difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't had the experience, but it is a pretty standard experience -- they talk to you, they know your life and everything about, they teach you new things, and then they tell you to become their mouthpiece for the good of humanity. I've spoken with them and it could have been my mug you were seeing with the love and light message, but I said no. The layers of deception are numerous and multiple and it takes an otherworldly understanding to see what they are doing, but you will come to the right conclusion as long as you ask the right questions and retain a healthy level of skepticism.

It's kind of like watching the politicians. One could listen to the message (sales pitch), think about it, agree with it and then vote. And then, you find out it's a rigged game. This is a similar type of manipulation.

--sjkted

[Anchor]

The parts I find misleading are the inferences to future events and the parts about what will happen. These are incorrect. If anything is to happen, it is because we made it -- not because we sat back and God did it for us.

The source is her spirit guides and channeled sources. This is a mixed bag and it's difficult to explain to anyone who hasn't had the experience, but it is a pretty standard experience -- they talk to you, they know your life and everything about, they teach you new things, and then they tell you to become their mouthpiece for the good of humanity. I've spoken with them and it could have been my mug you were seeing with the love and light message, but I said no. The layers of deception are numerous and multiple and it takes an otherworldly understanding to see what they are doing, but you will come to the right conclusion as long as you ask the right questions and retain a healthy level of skepticism.

It's kind of like watching the politicians. One could listen to the message (sales pitch), think about it, agree with it and then vote. And then, you find out it's a rigged game. This is a similar type of manipulation.

--sjkted

Fantastic summary - thanks.

Go for the message not the messenger :)

[lisa]

Thanks for the reply, sjkted. I don't recall Kiesha saying that God did it for us. She said "We are all god and goddesses." and "We are the ones we have been waiting for." Seems to be in agreement with "If anything is to happen, it is because we made it -- not because we sat back and God did it for us."

Do you think a pole-shift is happening or will happen then? If yes, do you think we made it happen or it just happens naturally?

Are you saying that because the sources you deal with have ill-intentions, everyone's sources also have ill-intentions?

[truthseekerdan]

Lisa, there is no point to contradict with sjkted -- he and I had a similar debate on this other thread starting with this post:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8191-Keisha-speaks-on-2012&p=70709&viewfull=1#post70709

Hope you don't mind. JMHO ~ :love: ~ Dan

[Agape]

I am Native American from the Cree Nation of Canada, I can't believe that Native Americans are still 'Labeled' in 2010. I speak my Cree language, and we do not have a word for 'Alien or E.T's' in our language -- not sure what tribe or nation you are referring to when you say that we accept E.T's as our savior or long lost family. When our elders talk / teach the children, they talk about respecting all life: earth, four elements, animals and all tribes. When we pray, we pray to the Creator/God .. not to some Alien being ...

We follow our culture/ancient spiritual practices, but do not broadcast out to the public what we do in our ceremonies cause these are very sacred. I have not seen or heard of any mention of any Alien beings or E.T.'s in any of our ceremonies. Many of our ceremonies are conducted in the Cree language and for an outsider to come in & totally experience what is being performed -- the translation to English would be lost.

Hard to believe in this day & age, but we do use Ipod's, computer's, and telephones .. omg .. and yeah we have our own money to buy whatever we want -- so what --- lol. Our day's of teepee's and hunting buffalo is long gone -- but we do still practice our ancient ceremonies that don't include Alien's or E.T.'s.

As Keisha Crowther, she is being invesitgated by the Sioux & Salish Nation for fraud. She does not speak for our Nation's, whatever she has learned is obviously made up for her to make money.



Hello Misty Moon,

it's wonderful seeing you here ..what has brought you to Project Camelot if I may ask ?


Regarding what you've said above..

do you consider possible that only few people, some of the Elders of your tribe(s) may know more than the others, about true nature of Spirit , the rituals, their meaning .


I've lived quite long among Tibetans who are considered one of the old 'knowing' cultures,
very similar ethnics to some of the American Indian tribes .

The consideration and teachings extend certainly, beyond human realm, not only to animal and plants
but to the world of ghosts and spirits, to Elders and Enlightened Beings , to Gods and Demigods.

The old cultures shared almost uniequivocally natural faith /knowledge ( though proofs are questionable for skeptics till now ) of life in Universe .


How did the people know , what are the legends talking about , if even small part of them is true and we have logical reason to believe so,

there were people long ago preceding the history known to us ..

they are gone and legends and bits of seemingly miraculous knowledge was passed from them to next generations,

and new worlds and new people came to carry the message across history ..


I very much agree with you on that not all 'Native Folks' are automatically enlightened folks and knowers.

Not all Tibetans, not all Indians, not all monks, you don't have to be either of those to be a carrier of knowledge.


I believe that Keisha and her message is correct, in the upper part ,

mankind is 'multicolored' nation,

history should never be forsaken and forgotten

but dwelling upon nations and territories is not making our world more truthful,


and knowledge is preserved by certain peoples, factions, and individuals around the world till majority is ready to accept such knowledge on even level.



Thanks again for sharing your unique perspective ,


A :hug:

[sjkted]

Thanks for the reply, sjkted. I don't recall Kiesha saying that God did it for us. She said "We are all god and goddesses." and "We are the ones we have been waiting for." Seems to be in agreement with "If anything is to happen, it is because we made it -- not because we sat back and God did it for us."

Do you think a pole-shift is happening or will happen then? If yes, do you think we made it happen or it just happens naturally?

Are you saying that because the sources you deal with have ill-intentions, everyone's sources also have ill-intentions?


Yes, she did say that. She also makes predictions such as there being a new earth in 2012. In other words, this will be done by God or somehow us humanfolk will get our act together in two years in order to create it. IMO, it's not responsible to say this. It would be responsible to give guidance and tell us what we can do to get our act together. Likewise with all of the other channeled sources. Does she give much guidance on concrete actions we can do?

I don't know if a pole shift will happen. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised by anything. I will say that every year that goes past, I find out I know even less than I thought I did.

I'm saying that out of the personalities I have seen in print and on web video and most of the more common channeled sources I have read, the story is always the same and is quite predictable after a while. They (the other side) wants to communicate with us and they will "reward" the messenger. I happen to think also (although not positive) that this source is what has created all of the world's major religions. They will give you a lot of truth and hope and some really great things, but you always have to be ready for the "twist" or the spin. And, it usually comes at the point when you trust them most.

In addition, they have capabilities that we don't. As they say, everything in time happens at once but we are only able to process it in a linear fashion. This means that they know to some extent what will happen in the future and can use it to gain our favor by making predictions. Of course, some of them don't come true. But, it's like playing a chess game as a starting player against some Bobby Fisher-type who is planning each move 10 steps in advance. A lot of the things they do don't make sense until this has been realized.

--sjkted

[Hiram]

So do you advise others to seek to their own council?

A simple and straight forward recommendation.

[sjkted]

I would advise everyone to do a study of channeled sources and see what the commonalities are and what results come of it and whether they are the same source or multiple sources and the end result for those who follow their information.

--sjkted

[Hiram]

I think that would be akin to asking everyone to consider a passage from the bible, consider the people who espouse that belief, and see where that left them in the end.

A fair encouragement

but I think you would end up with a million different perspectives though.

[sjkted]

Perhaps. But, I think that it would make the world more like Avalon. I don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with everyone here, but I do respect this community. And, I think that if we were a tribe or a city that we would have a great level of harmony with each other and as a place where everything worked. It's one thing to just drink the kool-aid and tell everyone it's great. And, it's another to analyze it and tell others what you see from your perspective. The latter gains my respect and it creates that basis for really creating a new world. We don't have to agree on everything, we just need to have a functional world, and that is not possible so long as we are being manipulated.

--sjkted

[lisa]

She also makes predictions such as there being a new earth in 2012. In other words, this will be done by God or somehow us humanfolk will get our act together in two years in order to create it.
Yeah, I am not too keen on the time/date either, but I do believe a pole-shift is happening. There have been a lot of earth changes and the poles have already shifted a bit. Earth is going through a "metamorphosis" and will be different when the shift is complete. This (I believe) is a natural evolution of a planet.


Does she give much guidance on concrete actions we can do?
I am a hands-on kinda person, too. I think the "positive thinking" self-help industry has turned a lot of people into delusional thinking. I am inspired by Kiesha "We are all Creators" message. I do attempt to create things (even though they may not turn out the way I want them to sometimes). Also, she said to spend five minutes each day to love and be love. For her, she can do that while playing with kids. It inspired me to try to love and be love whenever I remember.


they will "reward" the messenger
I have not seen any rewards to messengers in this lifetime. A lot of them get laughed at, jailed or killed. I would not want to be in Kiesha's shoes with all the insults hurling at her.

The Christian, Jewish and Islamic religions basically worship the same "God". I don't know whether this is true for all Native people, but the Hopi think that they worship the same "God", too. I believe we are all a part of this "God". The Native people and all these religions talk about the "end times". The PTB are trying to bring about the Third World War, build the Third Temple and bring out an Antichrist. So it is conceivable that the good guys also get some help too?!


As they say, everything in time happens at once but we are only able to process it in a linear fashion.
I believe that time does not really exist, but the future is highly changeable :becky: However, there is a limit to what words can describe and how we can explain things based on our current understanding. Also, labeling a single cause and effect on every phenomenon is limiting because there can be many causes and effects.

Thank you for reading my B.S :o

[sjkted]

I have not seen any rewards to messengers in this lifetime. A lot of them get laughed at, jailed or killed. I would not want to be in Kiesha's shoes with all the insults hurling at her.

The Christian, Jewish and Islamic religions basically worship the same "God". I don't know whether this is true for all Native people, but the Hopi think that they worship the same "God", too. I believe we are all a part of this "God". The Native people and all these religions talk about the "end times". The PTB are trying to bring about the Third World War, build the Third Temple and bring out an Antichrist. So it is conceivable that the good guys also get some help too?!


Most of the channelers we are familiar with have made this their life's work. And, make no mistake about it many of them are well-rewarded financially. Listen to some of the David Wilcock interbiews. He said he tried to do many things in life and was poor, but it wasn't until he started to transmit their message that he was able to do well. If it's any consolation,most of them are not bad people and think they are giving an accurate message. I would suppose that the financial rewards in many cases are enough to disable the critical thinking faculties.

I would agree, the future is highly changeable, but there are some main things that are pretty hard in stone so to speak. Yet, from all I have experienced, I do see free will in everything so despite negative outward appearances, there are always options.

--sjkted

[truthseekerdan]

Yeah, I am not too keen on the time/date either, but I do believe a pole-shift is happening. There have been a lot of earth changes and the poles have already shifted a bit. Earth is going through a "metamorphosis" and will be different when the shift is complete. This (I believe) is a natural evolution of a planet.

I am a hands-on kinda person, too. I think the "positive thinking" self-help industry has turned a lot of people into delusional thinking. I am inspired by Kiesha "We are all Creators" message. I do attempt to create things (even though they may not turn out the way I want them to sometimes). Also, she said to spend five minutes each day to love and be love. For her, she can do that while playing with kids. It inspired me to try to love and be love whenever I remember.

I have not seen any rewards to messengers in this lifetime. A lot of them get laughed at, jailed or killed. I would not want to be in Kiesha's shoes with all the insults hurling at her.

The Christian, Jewish and Islamic religions basically worship the same "God". I don't know whether this is true for all Native people, but the Hopi think that they worship the same "God", too. I believe we are all a part of this "God". The Native people and all these religions talk about the "end times". The PTB are trying to bring about the Third World War, build the Third Temple and bring out an Antichrist. So it is conceivable that the good guys also get some help too?!

I believe that time does not really exist, but the future is highly changeable :becky: However, there is a limit to what words can describe and how we can explain things based on our current understanding. Also, labeling a single cause and effect on every phenomenon is limiting because there can be many causes and effects.

Thank you for reading my B.S :o

Excellent Lisa, thank you! :clap2:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?7480-An-appeal-to-LOVE-by-Keisha-Crowther-her-visit-to-Holland-on-the-27th-of-Oct.-2010&p=78370&viewfull=1#post78370

[misty_moon5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCLmT_M-qtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPxoSp58pE

I have the same message as Bill .. just be careful who you believe .. if you choose to believe Keisha Crowther so be it ...

I am in here to participate like everyone else .. Live and learn right ...

[lisa]

I would advise everyone to do a study of channeled sources and see what the commonalities are and what results come of it and whether they are the same source or multiple sources and the end result for those who follow their information.

--sjkted

Anyone can claim to channel sources and the sources can be a mixed bag. So the sources cannot be lumped into one "good" or "bad" label.

People consider different things as "results" or "rewards". For some, it would be luxurious mansions and fast cars. For others, it would be to make a positive change in the world.

I used to have a lot of questions and unknowns, many of those have now been answered. This makes my thinking different from the majority out there. Those who want to fit in and think like everyone else may not want this "result".



Listen to some of the David Wilcock interbiews. He said he tried to do many things in life and was poor, but it wasn't until he started to transmit their message that he was able to do well.

I have looked at David Wilcock's material in the past and decided not to follow it. So forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought he does research and report his findings. This is different from channelers or messengers (who get info directly from their sources).

sjkted, thanks for caring enough to respond. The reason I responded to this thread is because Kiesha has not done anything to deserve the harsh remarks so far (not so much from this site, but other websites). I have tried to understand the "be careful, you are falling for her trap" arguments, but I cannot understand what is so wrong about people being inspired by her message to create positive outcomes and live in love.

MODs, could you kindly change the title to "Kiesha Crowther - New age deceiver or Wisdom Keeper?" to better reflect the content of this thread? Many thanks!

[timerty]

I have seen a YouTube of Keisha about an urgent message from mother earth. When she came to the point of talking about the suffering of mother earth, a very dramatic soundtrack was accompanying her message. I make music videos myself and I know she was trying to get people to be emotional. She probably has hired people to make her videos and write up her information copied from 2012 sources.

shiva777 has the right to say what is felt to be wrong with spiritual teachers with reasons, just like how the public voice their opinions about political leaders and policies, and how Bill Ryan voiced his opinions of certain whistle blowers he deemed to be untrue. Those who discourage this kind of expression actually do not support freedom and should not be in this forum or any forum.

Having said this, I only trust the information from Dr Hwee Yong Jang and Dolores Cannon. I don't trust the rest such as Ashyana Deane and Lisa Renee. I also do not trust a single word of any channeler who channels from entities with names, and recycle information from others. Please don't bother to convince me otherwise, you can try but my mind is already made up.

[timerty]

And religions and 'spiritual teachers' that serve as outlets for emotional escapism are preying on people's sense of hopelessness and desperation in life in order to build their sense of self-importance and earn the people's money through blind emotional faith.

People can pay for various forms of escapism in order to avoid facing the real causes and dealing with them. They pay for salvation, for dubious ascension techniques, for recoding the DNA. Everything related to ascension can be paid for just like what happens in religion.

True spiritual teachings is knowledge that does not cost a cent. It about helping people to understand reality in order to properly deal with the 3D experience, and not the false spiritual escapism that is going on. The false spiritual followers don't even know what is the nature of love, light, dark, negative, positive, vibration, frequency, density... but they just assume their meanings. Their blind faith is so serious, it does not get them to question what things are really about anymore. Who can blame them? But I hope the truth will all come out in 2012 and the misled people will get the chance to repent from their mistakes.

[Hiram]

It is an intrinsic quality of human nature to identify a message that people wish to hear and provide them that message--for a fee if possible. The person is selling a product.

Timerty is correct that true knowledge does not cost a scent....unless it does. Unless you choose to pay someone for it. But then do you really know it? It's a philosophical question.

But is the person who sells this knowledge to an eager public to blame or are the individuals who buy it to blame? Are the purveyors of drugs to blame or the eager beings who consume these drugs to blame?

I think the answer leads us once again to the individual. It is up to each individual to determine what they will consume with their minds, their hearts, and their physical being. Its not for someone else to determine.

You can't get rid of drugs in our world by eliminating the purveyors of drugs. You would have to affect the problem at its roots...which is the conditions which bring about the desire to abuse drugs.

You can't get rid of those who project spiritual philosophies of which you disagree, (opiates of their own kind) and expect that people won't seek out the same opiates, the same philosophies somewhere else.

Attaching to these paradigms is an expression of need. Its a symptom.

Unless you assist people with eliminating the need itself...on an individual level, you are shouting into the wind when you exclaim that the drug is bad.

[Humble Janitor]

For those accusing others who do not support Crowther as being part of the "darkness", I must add that lies and deception are dishonorable and unacceptable in MOST cultures around the world.

Instead of forging a fake identity, be yourself.

Stop making up **** and get real for once.

[lisa]

*sigh* obviously, there is a smear campaign against Kiesha.
In time, all will be clear and karma will take its course.
Namaste.

[truthseekerdan]

-a-fBx419rE

[timerty]

Keisha spends too much time playing with children and is not in tune with reality that also consists of many thinking adults.

Spiritual teachers whose teachings are not in tune with the people of the real world are those that people will not agree with and will deem fake. If their followers like to live in fantasy and escape from reality then they will face the result of their own stupidity and ignorance from the lies they immense themselves with.

[timerty]

*sigh* obviously, there is a smear campaign against Kiesha.
In time, all will be clear and karma will take its course.
Namaste.

But why impose bad things(karma) on others, did Keisha not teach you about acceptance(love) and forgiveness?

"Karma" is not about retribution or punishment, it is ignorance. If you do something out of ignorance, that ignorance will return if it is not resolved, and could lead to undesirable results.

Apparently, it is Keisha and her followers who are the ones ignorant about reality.

[sjkted]

Full of air...:rolleyes:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8191-Keisha-speaks-on-2012&p=70924&viewfull=1#post70924

Apparently, it's not quite as full of air as you would have us believe.

Take a look at what a Native American anti-fraud organization has to say about her:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.0

Perhaps you should be explaining to them that they are being misguided. Or maybe they're just jealous that she can make $25K from a seminar.

--sjkted

[sjkted]

One of the posts below. Apparently, none of the people from the tribes she claims to represent has ever heard of her:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.msg24947#msg24947



Kiesha Crowther has spoken in her own videos about how the "elders of the Salish" tribe, are the ones who made her "shaman over the Salish tribe". Those are her words, not mine. No one in the Flathead knows of this woman. I have spent some time asking and I even got a few laughs. She has also laid claim to Sioux, as so many white new age peddlers do. I recorded the youtube video's on my little camera and took copies to some of the elders here, and they watched them and were disgusted, truly. So here's my advice to anyone looking to verify her claims to Salish and Sioux, call the tribal office and ask them about her and her mother. We can't even verify the mother, as she has not given a name so that anyone can trace her lineage.

So if no one Salish up here knows who Kiesha Crowther, "shaman over the Salish tribe", then tell me who is Kiesha? She is a con artist, like so many others who have come before her. For example, the white woman Lynn Andrews who has written multiple books laying claim to teachings from women who don't exist, then charging grandiose amounts of money to take women to Joshua Tree and teach them shamanism. Kiesha has probably seen how well a white woman can do for herself if she can convince people that she's been annointed by someone important.

Kiesha seems to have alot of people in other countries fooled. Read through the youtube commentary, which is mostly made up by those living outside of the U.S. Most new age peddlers and pretenders like to don their regalia and tour foreign countries playing ndn, because the people are so starved for their indian experience they will pay precious money to get it. This whole thing has sickened me. You cannot stop a con artist in another country, where she has paying fools that believe in her.

So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way.

She's charging people for these "spiritual teachings" that she has read every where else on the internet or in books. Read a Lynn Andrews book. She copies the woman's style. I would not be surprised at all to find that Kiesha was a student of Lynn Andrews. You can google Lynn and see what exorbitant amounts of money she charges to teach women how to be a white pretender. It's sad. You can't make someone ndn. You cannot steal from the culture and lie, and twist it to fit what you want to teach others.

Kiesha has literally stolen her titles, and has fabricated her story about becoming shaman over the Salish tribe.

I say the woman is in need of prayers. Any woman who would desert her childen to come into the world to live a lie is not waking in truth and must have some serious problems going on. She's lost touch with who she is, and has clung to a lie to feel better in her life.

I have no desire to bash her but I will stand up and say that stealing from the Salish and claiming to be made a shaman is dead wrong, and she will have to account for those lies eventually. What will Kiesha do should the elders show up to one of the seminars she charges for to ask her of her claims?

I see that Kiesha has closed off her facebook from the public eye and now you must friend her in order to read there. She probably feels closed in on, as I am certain she has read this forum and knows that people are catching on to her.

[perfectresonance]

It's about DISCERNMENT...

this thread titled "New age deceivers..Keisha Crowther "
got 800 hits in 6 hours...what does that tell you

I'm not going to continue with this thread because frankly,the comments of many people here are not worth a reply and I will continue to post what I experience as my "truth" in the future on other threads,.the new-agey religion needs a serious stirrer or two to get people thinking ...so I will continue to STIR IT UP


I'm getting the feeling you are fighting for peace. It all makes sense in your own head, it seems.

Before you go, please remember this: We are all flawed in some way. I have listened to many teachers, and they all have had their blind spots.

[timerty]

I'm getting the feeling you are fighting for peace. It all makes sense in your own head, it seems.

Before you go, please remember this: We are all flawed in some way. I have listened to many teachers, and they all have had their blind spots.


It's one thing to be flawed and another thing to be FAKE.

[sjkted]

Here's a documentary called White Shamans and Plastic Medicine Men. Many of the indigenous posts I have seen online refer to this as cultural genocide. I'm beginning to understand why.

VCLmT_M-qtk

--sjkted

[lisa]

tim, karma is neutral.
You must have done something bad to think that karma is bad.
Don't worry about the past.
Listen to your heart and do what makes it sing and you will be just fine.

sjkted, the "New Age Fraud" website is the other website I was talking about in Post #104 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?8937-New-age-deceivers..Keisha-Crowther&p=78775&viewfull=1#post78775).
I myself am very keen on pointing at people and yell "Watch out! Fraud Alert!", but even I would not spend time posting on a Forum that only talks about Fraud.
Where do the Forum members come from? Have they been cheated and swindled all their lives that they have an overwhelming sense of mission to discuss about all the New Age Frauds out there or are they paid to do so?

[sjkted]

Where do the Forum members come from? Have they been cheated and swindled all their lives that they have an overwhelming sense of mission to discuss about all the New Age Frauds out there or are they paid to do so?


They are native Americans who consider it disrespectful and cultural genocide in a sense for new age frauds to be taking their traditions and spinning them and then claiming they are authentic. In a way, it is similar to defamation or slander.

--sjkted

[timerty]

tim, karma is neutral.
You must have done something bad to think that karma is bad.
Don't worry about the past.
Listen to your heart and do what makes it sing and you will be just fine.


Cut the BS.

The Delusions of Karma and Cause and Effect
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9332-The-Delusions-of-Karma-and-Cause-and-Effect

[shiva777]

read the comments in this video page also...don't be fooled by those who are preaching "just go in to the heart"....it takes LOVE,LIGHT and WISDOM to awaken the TRUE heart..the ASTRAL heart is a very complex and deceptive realm of experience and a trap if you don't know any better,the 4D/4th chakra(heart( astral dimension goes very deep...Drunvalo melchizedek is a perfect example of one who has been sucked in to the ASTRAL heart chambers as well....it goes VERY deep,his "controllers" are telling him such ridiculous things as humanity has been ready to "ascend" since 2007 and many more....even people like Tolle are giving their conciousness away to impure dimensional realms and entities that feel like "heaven" but is far from it...being in the "NOW" is only a doorway,in order to navigate the NOW you need to do so with a healthy EGO and an awakened mind,,,not tolle's torured mind that he couldn't wait to get rid of and hence was fragmented in to the "now" and lead in to a FALSE "enlightenment" fragmented dimensional space...Tolle's teachings are very helpful to enter the doorway but they won't assist you to DISCERN what lies beyond the door...most of the "enlightened" Masters of the world's religions also gave their essence away to these distorted dimensional spaces and beings..most of their "god's" are NEGATIVE ET's/entities/dimensional spaces...yeah,I know,controversial!...to get some idea of what I am talking about look at Lisa Renee and Ashayana Deane's threads in this Avalon forum ...

.the new age religion is pushing the Divine Feminine in an IMBALANCED way...it needs to be balanced with the Divine masculine ..the heart chakra needs to be balanced with the crown chakra and beyond

Keisha now CLAIMS that she didn't know that she wasn't officially accepted as a shaman by these indfian elders...how could that possibly be the truth?...didn't she ever ask or receive correspondence from the elders who she claims to represent?...think about it people..yes,use your MINDS as well as your hearts...when I heard that she was telling people to plant crystals in the ground without telling them the CRUCIAL importance of doingdeep cleansing on these crystals before feeding them into the earths grids I became concerned...a great number of crystal deposits on earth have been programmed with very powerful negative intention from black magicians,Atlantean ceremonies and much more and it takes very powerful, intention to clear those negative programs and I'm sure a large number of Keisha's fans are not aware of that or capable of clearing bheir crystals effectively..and on it goes

Keisha is a great example of how the new-age religion is being accepted by people desperate for answers...the agenda all along has been to get people so dumbed down and desperate that they will accept these things ...watch and read the comments under the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM&feature=player_embeddedIf

[Humble Janitor]

Just a bit of advice to anyone believing her nonsense: Look into your heart. You will find all of the answers you need right there. You will not get the answers you need from a shaman or false messiah.

[The Truth Is In There]

i don't think anyone will be able to convince those who live from the heart that what they do is wrong or, for that matter, that the message of kiesha crowther is negativity with a sugar coating. i wholeheartedly support her message and i know for a fact that my life has taken a definite turn towards the positive after i started to live more from the heart. i've written a few things about heart/mind and about doubt in another thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10085-Humanity-The-Explorer-Race) but of course this also won't convince anyone who likes his "mental" life the way it is. to change yourself there first has to be the will to change. i know several people who changed from mind to heart consciousness but not one who changed back.

[Arrowwind]

Shiva777, your post was great, a real analytic account of child like simplicity.

I do agree with you that total movement by the heart will get one in trouble. We have been given higher centers to develop vision and discernement with. The heart is the center to realize and experience love with which is only one aspect of our totality. It is not so much the mind we seek to counsel with but the higher intuitions that feed though the highest chakras that are interpeted in mind thoughts... Intuition, knowledge and wisdom, introspection must be toned and qualified by the heart but its from the higher centers that most of this comes from. Knowledge and wisdom can be a sharp cutting blade if not toned by the heart.. and as such we and all the earths children have suffered greatly on a planetary scale by our human knowledge in science when the heart and compassion for the mother earth and her other children has been disregarded for profits and power.

In the medicine wheel all things must reside in balance. heart, mind, body and spirit to be catalized by our soul force... as a fully integrated human.

But give us a break! She is a sweet kid and she fullfills many people's fantasies of what reality is or should be or that they wish it would be. She is extemely niave in my opinion. Clearly she is not right about all aliens being good and being our saviours. Abduction against free will of individuals is a very dark infliction upon a human being.

She will draw to her those people who resonate as she because they have learning within that frequency she carries. and they will learn truths in part. The lessons that they need for this day for their time in experience... and so who does have all the truth in totality?

The down side I see to her beleif system is that it essentially keeps everyone glued to the boob tube, for no need to rise up and take control of your reality... someone else, in this case, the aliens, will fix things for you, once again keeping one in a disempowered state and a minimally participatory creator of the reality that surrounds them.

On the other hand I am well studied in Native American Teachings. We really have no true clue as a collective white race just how the Native peoples of the Americas lived before we came here and ran them into the ground. We only have what their shamans and teachers tell us, and I prefer to believe them as opposed to the history of the winning dominating white men who write history books... and yes many Native people do not live vibrant spiritual lives currently as their opportunities were stolen from them long ago and driven into poverty of land, spirit, health and creativity, likely setting the stage for their soul release to other racial incarnations. (Always remember Karma...and there could be some previous white folks enduring the native trials in red skin right now so that they may learn the impact of their crimes and eventually the native wholistic spirituality, hence redeeming themselves and moving on in their growth) Native peoples, they only regained their right to freely and legally practice their ceremonies in 1979. They have much healing to do from the onslaught and imprisonment they have endured and like any people anywhere on the planet a tribe will consist of evolved souls and lessor evolved souls all working or struggling together for life and liberty and evolution.

[etm567]

Falsehoods of the New Age: Kiesha Crowther

My purpose in this essay is to show, perhaps one last time, how some of the manipulations work, especially when directed to those who “want to believe”. It is the “ET as savior” message that has prompted me to write this in response to email I received from people who presumed this “messenger” (and her message) is the next best thing after sliced bread. She cultivates a projection of appearing to believe that what she says is of the highest order. Overall the style of presentation resembles that of religious “fundamentalists”. I was not taken in by her Santa Fe presentation, and now that I have seen/heard her most recent Swiss presentation, I am even more troubled by her agenda. This article is based upon a number of recent email exchanges. This analysis can be readily applied to any number of new age/ET advocates.

While the personage here is not really the main point, she is one of many who are promoting ET’s as saviors, promotes herself in a way to lull her audience into accepting her “credentials” and so better accept her message. She relies on a litany of “credentials” implying her supra-normal abilities and “certification” by external authority (usually referred as some “elder council”). At the same time she adopts an effective posture of false humility.

I have no idea if you are right or wrong about Keisha Crowther. But you do address one of the biggest questions in the whole issue, and I guess that has become a great big dividing line.

I for one do not think I am a dupe. I'm pretty logical, and can look at evidence pretty dispassionately. And I can see that this, over here, is what I would like to believe, and I can also see that that, over there, might be the truth.

I have read, and read, and read, and read, and read. I have read about disinformation and propaganda, from that fellow who did the campaign way back to get women to smoke -- very successfully, I might add -- on down to today.

After all the reading and thinking and pondering I have done, I have come down on the side of Ascension. And yes, a great deal of my decision is based on those three free books of David Wilcock, which are still available, for free, on his site. I highly recommend them to anyone looking for cogent arguments for the fact of Ascension. There is also, for me, Steve Beckow's site and his knowledge and discernment, which seems to in many ways agree with mine (I mean his discernment, or who he approves of, seems to fall in line with who I approve of, not his knowledge, which is many light years beyond mine.) I cannot stand to read channeled information that is a bunch of generalities and platitudes. And so much of it is so repetitive! So to me, most channeled info is not readable, but some of it is.

After all is said and cone, for me, I come down on the side of Ascension. I recently bought a copy of Hamlet's Mill at a second hand, rare book shop in New York. Haven't read it yet, but I think it's about the traces of -- what is that astronomical cycle? the ones that goes around 26,000 years? -- through ancient civilizations and prophecy. There's a lot more, which is not presenting itself to me in this moment, right here and now.

And I also do have a gut feeling. And that points me to, if this is not all there is, if death isn't the end, and there is an afterlife, then there are, in existence somewhere else, some intelligent being/beings with more power and knowledge than we have. And if there are those, what is our purpose for being here? Evolution seems to me to be the only reasonable answer. So, why have whatever off-world powers allowed the **** that has taken place on this planet to go ahead?

Trite as it may see, the reasons so often presented make perfect sense to me. That is, the free will universe. Yes, this place is a nightmare. But if it is a nightmare, there must be an end to that nightmare, if indeed evolution is the point of our being here. Just because evil has been on top here for many thousands of years does not mean that things must stay that way; in fact, that alone seems to me to suggest that, despite evil being on top here for so many eons, there must come an end to that. The pendulum must swing.

There are many other reasons, and I'm not being very articulate. I should work on this for a while away from the forum, and present a good list at some later point. And my point is that this poster is addressing what is, to me, the very crux of our problem today in making sense of all the information available to us. And yes, I come down on the opposite side of the issue from him.

One other thing: all my life up to a certain point, there were two voices on my shoulders. Not good and bad, not that simple. It was more like there was one that said, go ahead, there is a god, love and truth are real forces for good; it's okay to trust in something; versus one that said, no, be careful, don't trust anyone or anything, they are all just out to get you. Don't be a gullible, naive, idiot. Don't believe anything, or anyone. It's all bull****, and it's just meant to trip you up and cause you to make a silly fool of yourself.

Well, I have come down on the side of that argument that recognizes that love and truth are very real, potent forces for good, and they are to be found right here on Earth, today. The other side of that argument was childish, fearful and self-conscious, in the wrong way.

So, I may turn out to be a fool, but if that's a case, I'd actually rather come down on that side, than come down on the other side and be right.

So I'll go off and maybe organize the arguments I have come across for believing that there are indeed good ETs here to help us, that Ascension is truly just around the corner, and a golden age awaits us.

I'm tired, so I'm not going to re-read this post. Please forgive my grammatical and spelling errors. I'm tired. And if I put it off, I won't do it. I just want to get this notion set out in this thread.

ETM

[Anchor]

So I'll go off and maybe organize the arguments I have come across for believing that there are indeed good ETs here to help us, that Ascension is truly just around the corner, and a golden age awaits us.

I like the way you have thought this through and written it.

To add... in my opinion, ascension, whatever that is, will only happen for those that tack action and deliberately and diligently seek that goal. The help from wherever (ET or otherwise) comes later.

John..

[1inMany]

Here's something worthy of consideration when speaking of Keisha Crowther. There are so many of us, so many individuals, and as many unique paths. There is something sincere in her message, though I can't say that the message is without flaw. I don't know one way or the other, truth be told. But I do know one thing that is fact. Someone will be touched by her message that would not have been touched any other way, and this one touch will be the one nudge someone needed on their journey for truth. Not everyone will be reached by the ONE miraculous or earthshattering piece of information. My hope is that anyone touched by her in a positive way will remember that not one person has every answer. Every person has every answer.

We could theoretically argue all day long whether she's a "fake" or a "fraud"...but fake or fraud what? Person? Soul? Human being? Remember we are all connected here, and be careful how you answer.

Just my thoughts...
Much love

[gooty64]

She totally gives herself away in this 10 minute video.....scXVJhHKRls

[Mark]

i thought she handled herself quite well. her msg is very consistent and she emotes clearly. i don't know. i resonated to her when i first saw her, then this story came out. she does have something.

[Unified Serenity]

Truly an Awesome post Arrowwind. Never is someone so blind as he who refuses to see. Cult leaders have gotten away with what they do because they exude this false idea of love and light, and thus anyone who says anything against what they actually do is mean spirited, controlled in an old left/right paradigm, and "Needs to check their heart chakra" etc.. I bet a lot of the Jim Jones followers had wished someone had slapped them like Cher and said, "Snap out of it!"

0x-fkSYDtUY

Much love,

Serenity


Shiva777, your post was great, a real analytic account of child like simplicity.

I do agree with you that total movement by the heart will get one in trouble. We have been given higher centers to develop vision and discernement with. The heart is the center to realize and experience love with which is only one aspect of our totality. It is not so much the mind we seek to counsel with but the higher intuitions that feed though the highest chakras that are interpeted in mind thoughts... Intuition, knowledge and wisdom, introspection must be toned and qualified by the heart but its from the higher centers that most of this comes from. Knowledge and wisdom can be a sharp cutting blade if not toned by the heart.. and as such we and all the earths children have suffered greatly on a planetary scale by our human knowledge in science when the heart and compassion for the mother earth and her other children has been disregarded for profits and power.

In the medicine wheel all things must reside in balance. heart, mind, body and spirit to be catalized by our soul force... as a fully integrated human.

But give us a break! She is a sweet kid and she fullfills many people's fantasies of what reality is or should be or that they wish it would be. She is extemely niave in my opinion. Clearly she is not right about all aliens being good and being our saviours. Abduction against free will of individuals is a very dark infliction upon a human being.

She will draw to her those people who resonate as she because they have learning within that frequency she carries. and they will learn truths in part. The lessons that they need for this day for their time in experience... and so who does have all the truth in totality?

The down side I see to her beleif system is that it essentially keeps everyone glued to the boob tube, for no need to rise up and take control of your reality... someone else, in this case, the aliens, will fix things for you, once again keeping one in a disempowered state and a minimally participatory creator of the reality that surrounds them.

On the other hand I am well studied in Native American Teachings. We really have no true clue as a collective white race just how the Native peoples of the Americas lived before we came here and ran them into the ground. We only have what their shamans and teachers tell us, and I prefer to believe them as opposed to the history of the winning dominating white men who write history books... and yes many Native people do not live vibrant spiritual lives currently as their opportunities were stolen from them long ago and driven into poverty of land, spirit, health and creativity, likely setting the stage for their soul release to other racial incarnations. (Always remember Karma...and there could be some previous white folks enduring the native trials in red skin right now so that they may learn the impact of their crimes and eventually the native wholistic spirituality, hence redeeming themselves and moving on in their growth) Native peoples, they only regained their right to freely and legally practice their ceremonies in 1979. They have much healing to do from the onslaught and imprisonment they have endured and like any people anywhere on the planet a tribe will consist of evolved souls and lessor evolved souls all working or struggling together for life and liberty and evolution.

[Arrowwind]

Truly an Awesome post Arrowwind. Never is someone so blind as he who refuses to see. Cult leaders have gotten away with what they do because they exude this false idea of love and light, and thus anyone who says anything against what they actually do is mean spirited, controlled in an old left/right paradigm, and "Needs to check their heart chakra" etc.. I bet a lot of the Jim Jones followers had wished someone had slapped them like Cher and said, "Snap out of it!"

]

Well I just watched the video of Keisha that gooty64 presented above.

I must say I am no Keisha expert and her first videos turned me off so much, I probably watched 3 or 4, that I did not feel inclined to pursue her work, although I viewed her message as essentially good in intention it was not a message that I thought would help mankind
to take control of their responsibilty for their creation of this reality.

But clearly in the above video she seems that she may be evolving some in her message.
I heard nothing about aliens saving you, rather she states that you can and must do the work yourself.
Her previous statements of all aliens being here to help us is blatantly wrong.. I dont know if she still holds
that position and with statments like that I can only conclude that her source of information on such a statement is wrong... and therefor
her body of work lies suspect to me and must be critically considered.

But I also saw her much as a niave child in her early work... so perhaps she is growing into her task.
I am always suspect of those who tell us that others will save us... alien or otherwise and that ascenion is coming so not to worry.. which in so many minds translates to do nothing.

No one saved the native Americans from their plight, no one saved the heretics from the Catholic Church,
No one saved 6 million Jews from Hitler, no one saved the peoples of Rhowanda, no one saved the children in the Canadian Indian Mission schools... so why should I count on someone like an alien or anyone else coming to save me and mine?

I firmly believe that we must save ourselves... and yes we can receive help... for help comes to us daily in spiritual guidance and insight that we must awaken to.

We as a human race must wake up to the delusions that we have been swept into... the brain washing, and the zombie state of mind that keeps us paralized from doing what needs to be done. Of course heart awakening is a part of this but also is the abilty to critically discern, and accuratley discern the nature of reality and one's part in it.
If we did we would need no help. As far as I can tell all the real material work on the planet has come from real material people doing the nitty grit to awaken themselves and hence others, who then rise up to save themselves.
Yes, there are all the stories of ascended masters and other saintly like people who have helped, but they, in my estamaiton have all been human, have evolved out of the human experience.
As far as ascension goes, I have not yet seen it so I don't know if it is real or not. Could it be a potential reality? It could. Anything that we dare to dream is a potential reality. Am I going to count on it? No. I cannot count on what is not immediatley happening. I must count on what presents day to day for each day presents a child that must be fed and elder that needs help, a fire that must be fed.

I have come to this planet, like Keisha to do a work. I am in the midst of it. I too have recall of this and I do think that there are counltess others who have this awareness. This informaiton was given to me many years ago from out of my own source. It has given me the faith and strength to continue on in the midst of the darkness in the world and to focus on the light within myself. It has given me an awareness that this school called earth is a sacred opportunity.

Unlike Keisha, I already know that this will not be my last life. That my commitment to the human experiece is ongoing and I have no fear or concerns for "not moving on" for moving on is just another dream presenting with another set of problems of spiritual evolution to work through. And unlike Keisha, I do not see other places as being a higher place. It is all equal! Although we might like to think that realities that are full of love and light are higher, they are not, for ALL of it is of the creation of the great spirit. We will reside exactly where our commitment takes us and there is no judgement but just an understanding of need of the work to be done.

[Kristin]

Enjoy the video, I thought it was appropriate. I posted it on another thread, but here seems like a good place.
From the Heart,
Wormhole

http://veilofreality.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/love-reality-and-the-time-of-transition-video/

I feel for Keisha. She was very abused and has really found something in her self that is more powerful in her spirituality. That is a true path... however, yes, there is a discernment warning there. I do not "feel" a whole truth. But I do feel the truth of her story... from abuse to feeling a place on the planet. That's great, but the rest... no.