GMO - what might really be the truth?

[Chester]

Interesting video that held the mirror up (at least for me) with regards to the militant attitude I have had regarding "GMO" which has come forth from my immersion in "the alternative community."

MknnRPk8eRE

[Matt P]

OK, I made it about 2 min before I had to turn it off. We have NOT been doing this kind of genetic manipulation for thousands of years. Why would I want to listen to a pro GMO argument after what I already know about them, especially when they're being deceptive right from the start? A couple things... One, not a single long term study has been done on the effects of these GMO's. WE are the guinea pigs. No thank you. Two, every reason for the very justification for GMO crops has turned out to be a lie. They do NOT increase yield. They do NOT decrease pesticides/herbicides/insecticides, they require more. They do NOT give more power and control to local farmers, they take it away. They do NOT require less water use. They are not healthier. And on and on. We don't need GMO's. Who does? Who promotes them? Large corporations that don't give a crap about people, food quality or the environment. They want GMO's because they can be controlled, patented and profited from. We need to get back to sustainable agriculture (yay permaculture!), which has been proven to increase yield, reduce chemicals, take better care of the land and it's creatures, and on and on. We are not scared of the technology! (I turned it back on for a few minutes to hear that gem) We are using common sense to get the healthiest food possible, for the most people, in ways that supports the natural environment.

By the way, I keep turning it back on to give it a chance and every time this guy says something ridiculous. He says because we share genes with all other plants and creatures, it can't hurt us essentially if we combine and consume them. Wow. And they are mocking those who are against GMO's.

My thinking is not a militant attitude based on information from the alternative community (which is far more intelligent than the mainstream anyway), it's a judgement based on common sense, awareness of the issues and research.

With all due respect, I am always open to any rational arguments but me and my family will continue to avoid GMO's and I take great pride in being on the side against companies like Monsanto.

Now I'm going to share this video with my friend who helps run our local food co-op and see if she'd like to respond...

Matt

[edit: my friend Terri, who sits on the board of directors of Good Foods Co-Op in Lexington, like me, couldn't make it through 5 minutes of this video. Here's what she wrote to me:
"1) To state that people who understand GMO dangers are afraid of reason and
evidence is inaccurate. Why is most of corn GMO? Answer: So it can be sprayed by
glyphosate. Only GMOs are resistant to this herbicide. This chemical stays on
the produce we consume and runs off into our drinking water.

2) This guy sounds like a paid for lobbyist for Monsanto."]

[Chester]

Why I happen to be open minded is that I have found by opening myself to "crowd resonance" so doing can lead to a great deal of personal tragedy and disillusionment.

I wonder mpennery if you own and/or at least drive a car or allow yourself to be transported in a car or bus or train? None of those were here 200 years ago or here for the last "thousands of years."

What likely has been here for thousands of years and indeed the last few hundred as well is - self imposed ignorance in part due to egoic knowitallness (and I am sad to say I know this one well from personal experience having personally manifested such) along with an attraction to polarity.

Be aware the video I shared is certainly all and only the views of the two speaking though there was also some documentation for those views.

Be aware I happen to buy and consume all and only organic, non-GMO, foods.

Be aware that my posting of this video is not stating I agree with the points made in the discussion yet what I am also aware of is that contempt prior to investigation is willful ignorance and in speaking for myself, I have had enough of that type of operational "beingness."

[Chester]

Interestingly, the video I posted in the OP address what is likely a far more important (and underlying) issue -

"tribal beliefs"

start at 46:00

[Andre]

Sam, I don't see the point in posting a GMO propaganda video in Avalon that is clearly deceptive. It's no different to posting a video of Dick Cheney promoting war in the Middle East to safeguard U.S. interests and then claiming you just want to be open minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michelle Marie]

Sam, I don't see the point in posting a GMO propaganda video in Avalon that is clearly deceptive. It's no different to posting a video of Dick Cheney promoting war in the Middle East to safeguard U.S. interests and then claiming you just want to be open minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.

Discernment is alive and well.

MM

[East Sun]

Thank you mpennery. As you know, people and animals are sick as a result of monsanto greed oriented 'bastards' (a new definition for 'scumbags')
cranking out their 'unnatural' crap to the world.

In my opinion, there is EVIL intent behind their agenda and it is obvious to the world at large.

[Ioneo]

Read the book 'Seeds of Deception' by Jeffrey M. Smith. He lays out the facts and lets the reader decide. Did you know that the FDA doesn't require any scientific studies to be submitted by the companies creating GMOs? They 'take their word' that the food is safe!

[Verdilac]

Also to add, a lot of them get round the GMO issue in other locations around the world by spraying the crops with something they like to call a hormone.

And there are many available, basically there are different compounds that produce different results at different times of the growth cycle , and I do mean lots of different results BTW, some compounds are tailor made to different soil types and geographical locations, some dictate the size & shape of the yield , some frequency of the growth.

The development moves very quickly in the fine tuning of these compounds, the last time I had an in depth discussion about this subject was a few years ago so you can imagine how far things have moved on as its such a massive market with lots of resources.

Some people are still surprised when you tell them that the crops they grow for cereal & bread are sprayed with industrial strength weed killer:(

[onawah]

This thread should not even be on Avalon, in my opinion; I see no good reason for it being here at all, except perhaps to help define to those who are in doubt as to the real purpose of this forum.
The latest study that I read about glysophate indicates that it creates

a biochemical chain reaction disaster, that binds, blocks and disrupts essential micronutrient minerals, enzymes and hormones that provide metabolic energy and free radical protection of the mitochondria of all our life giving cells!Below is a visual chain reaction story of how this herbicide has potentially caused all neurologically related diseases, autoimmune diseases, sleep disorders, depression, metabolic diseases and all forms of cancer….ever since its exception and continued utilization
As far as I'm concerned, enough said!
But if that's not enough for you, see this:http://civileats.stfi.re/2016/03/10/the-battle-over-the-glyphosate-herbicide-heats-up-as-nearly-100-scientists-weigh-in/?sf=rwplpx

One year ago, an agency of the World Health Organization’s International Agency for Cancer Research (IARC) declared that glyphosate (or Roundup), the world’s most widely used herbicide, probably causes cancer. Then, in the fall, the European Food Safety Agency’s (EFSA) responded with an assessment that disagreed with the WHO’s findings.

In response, 94 scientists came out in support of the IARC’s original findings. This week, the group—which includes scientists from around the world—released their article in the peer-reviewed Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health saying:

The most appropriate and scientifically based evaluation of the cancers reported in humans and laboratory animals as well as supportive mechanistic data is that glyphosate is a probable human carcinogen. On the basis of this conclusion and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is reasonable to conclude that glyphosate formulations should also be considered likely human carcinogens.

And their endorsement is no small matter. In fact, as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) reassesses the safety of glyphosate, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) plans to begin testing food for its residue, this volley has important implications.

Glyphosate is applied to 89 percent of U.S. corn crop and 94 percent of the soybeans, as well as with dozens of other crops. Since the herbicide (and the genetically engineered crops that were created to withstand its use) is a core component of today’s productive but extremely harmful industrial farm landscape, the results of this debate could have far reaching consequences.

Why should we trust IARC’s determination that glyphosate is probably carcinogenic?

IARC is a highly respected and independent organization with stringent guidelines for an assessment of this kind. Its determination was unanimous and based on a comprehensive analysis of decades of research. The fact that it was quickly attacked by Monsanto, the largest producer of glyphosate, is no surprise. But the conclusion by EFSA that glyphosate is not carcinogenic is harder to understand, and has led to ongoing debate.

The article makes a complex but compelling argument in IARC’s defense. For example, the authors explain how EFSA unfairly discounted several good long-running epidemiology studies that showed higher-than-average levels of non-hodgkin’s lymphoma in farmers or farmworkers. They also argue that EFSA did not adequately account for the long latency period before cancer develops. In other words, lack of cancer in some studies is not compelling because they may have not been conducted for a long enough period of time.Glyphosate Use by Year and Crop

On a related note, the most dramatic increases in glyphosate use have occurred only in the past five to 10 years—not long enough for most cancers to develop. According to the U.S. Geological survey (see the chart on the right), we now use about 280 million pounds of glyphosate per year as of 2013, compared to only about 30 million pounds a year before genetically engineered crops were first commercialized 20 years ago.

The authors of the new paper also found that EFSA discounted or dismissed many studies that used test animals or lab-based studies published in peer-reviewed journals, despite the fact that they are the professional standard for science research.
Instead, EFSA relied heavily on research supplied by the pesticide industry that conforms to its internally vetted—but unnecessarily and excessively limited—experimental protocols. This process tilts heavily in favor of industry studies not always available to the public, contrary to accepted norms of scientific transparency.

The new paper also found that EFSA relied on statistical methods that unreasonably restrict and limit the value of important research, and run counter to accepted methods. When these and other biases imposed by EFSA were removed, the data strongly suggest that glyphosate is a likely carcinogen.

For all of these reasons, the 94 scientists deemed the IARC study to be a better analysis of the research data, and therefore ultimately more protective of the public.

Monsanto is losing ground...http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72183-Monsanto-Losing-Grounds
...and for good reason. See especially:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72183-Monsanto-Losing-Grounds&p=1052859&viewfull=1#post1052859

[Andre]

Does anyone know if organic food certification in Australia, USA or EU checks for aluminium, strontium or barium contamination that must impact many "organic" crops due to geo-engineering fallout? We already know that aluminium levels in soil are often found to be 200 times the normal levels so there can be no doubt that this fallout is affecting crops worldwide.

Crops grown in greenhouses may not be so exposed, but like conventional crops, most are grown outside.

I am aware of at least one case study in which a certified organic farmer lost his court case in Western Australia due to contamination from his GM neighbor who grows for Monsanto, but I have yet to hear about metal particulate contamination fallout from the sky.

[Eram]

Hi Sam,

I applaud your effort to take a step back and investigate other viewpoints then the ones that are popular in the alternative media. It can be refreshing indeed and even make us aware of our own tendencies to demonize for instance.

This interview however is far from objective.
Jon Entine (http://www.truthwiki.org/jon_entine/), the guy being interviewed is a notorious GMO propagandist and most of the claims that he makes in this interview are biased, arbitrary and often even blatant lies.

- Monsanto is not a good willing company that just happened to have this "bad luck" past and name that they got stuck with.
- GMO seeds are not harmless to nature and the animals and people who feed off it.
- It is not true that banning GMO seeds will cause large groups of people to starve to death. This is a blatant lie.
- It is not true that 87% of scientist claim that GMO is safe.

And this is just after 15 minutes into the interview. :)

The objections toward GMO are well documented and supported by facts imo and not a million Jon Entines can make me judge otherwise.

[T Smith]

Sam, I don't see the point in posting a GMO propaganda video in Avalon that is clearly deceptive. It's no different to posting a video of Dick Cheney promoting war in the Middle East to safeguard U.S. interests and then claiming you just want to be open minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With all due respect, the minute we fear propaganda is the minute we become more susceptible to it.

Sam Hunter, post away all the deceptive propaganda you can find. I can determine on my own whether its content has merit or not.

[onawah]

What would be the point in that?
Why should the forum be filled up with deceptive propaganda?
That would be nothing but a waste of time and space.
Avalon reaches low points from time to time in the amount of relevant and useful information being posted here, and that will only keep it at a low ebb.




Sam Hunter, post away all the deceptive propaganda you can find. I can determine on my own whether its content has merit or not.

[Sierra]

Sam,

Are you forgetting already the reams of data posted on blufire's many pro-GMO threads?

I find this same old, same old, annoying. Why feed the Beast of Lies?

[Dennis Leahy]

OK, I made it about 2 min before I had to turn it off. We have NOT been doing this kind of genetic manipulation for thousands of years. Why would I want to listen to a pro GMO argument after what I already know about them, especially when they're being deceptive right from the start? A couple things... One, not a single long term study has been done on the effects of these GMO's. WE are the guinea pigs. No thank you. Two, every reason for the very justification for GMO crops has turned out to be a lie. They do NOT increase yield. They do NOT decrease pesticides/herbicides/insecticides, they require more. They do NOT give more power and control to local farmers, they take it away. They do NOT require less water use. They are not healthier. And on and on. We don't need GMO's. Who does? Who promotes them? Large corporations that don't give a crap about people, food quality or the environment. They want GMO's because they can be controlled, patented and profited from. We need to get back to sustainable agriculture (yay permaculture!), which has been proven to increase yield, reduce chemicals, take better care of the land and it's creatures, and on and on. We are not scared of the technology! (I turned it back on for a few minutes to hear that gem) We are using common sense to get the healthiest food possible, for the most people, in ways that supports the natural environment.

By the way, I keep turning it back on to give it a chance and every time this guy says something ridiculous. He says because we share genes with all other plants and creatures, it can't hurt us essentially if we combine and consume them. Wow. And they are mocking those who are against GMO's.

My thinking is not a militant attitude based on information from the alternative community (which is far more intelligent than the mainstream anyway), it's a judgement based on common sense, awareness of the issues and research.

With all due respect, I am always open to any rational arguments but me and my family will continue to avoid GMO's and I take great pride in being on the side against companies like Monsanto.


MattI need to use a standing ovation emoji for this post the 'Thanks' button is inadequate.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/standing-ovation.gif (http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/standing-ovation.gif)

[Chester]

Hi Sam,

I applaud your effort to take a step back and investigate other viewpoints then the ones that are popular in the alternative media. It can be refreshing indeed and even make us aware of our own tendencies to demonize for instance.

This interview however is far from objective.
Jon Entine (http://www.truthwiki.org/jon_entine/), the guy being interviewed is a notorious GMO propagandist and most of the claims that he makes in this interview are biased, arbitrary and often even blatant lies.

- Monsanto is not a good willing company that just happened to have this "bad luck" past and name that they got stuck with.
- GMO seeds are not harmless to nature and the animals and people who feed off it.
- It is not true that banning GMO seeds will cause large groups of people to starve to death. This is a blatant lie.
- It is not true that 87% of scientist claim that GMO is safe.

And this is just after 15 minutes into the interview. :)

The objections toward GMO are well documented and supported by facts imo and not a million Jon Entines can make me judge otherwise.

Yes, and what i feel is important is that I do my own investigations as opposed to following a herd mentality.

Its funny how so many in this thread missed the actual point.

It is also funny how it was missed my own statement of fact that I avoid all GMO, that I go organic in every way I can, I avoid processed foods, no anti-biotics or hormones in my foods as best as anyone can where I live while dwelling in a city environment.

Its funny how that got missed.

What I had hoped to experience in this thread is that folks who maybe have actually done their homework would have cited their sources for their views against (for example) Jon Entine and the data he cites and cites in a way that the listener might accept it all as actual fact.

It's funny, but about 14 or so months back I left this forum because I followed a crowd who I allowed to tell me that a certain individual intrinsically associated with this forum was a psychopath, was wittingly working with the dark side and with known "dark side" agencies and in fact was seen accompanied by a specific type of alien that is perceived by this group to be malevolent. I accepted these things as truth and ended up experiencing one of the darkest episodes of my life which ended, interestingly enough, when this same individual happened to forgive my own actions against this individual once I had left and gave me the option of restoring my membership.

Now back to the subject...

It would be nice that if there is indeed some verifiable, independent of any agenda, information regarding Jon Entine (for example) and Mosnanto as they exist now, it might be more productive to provide that.

This is not solely meant for myself. It is also meant for what very well may be new readers. It was this silly notion of mine that this forum was a place that rose above the vitriol that happened to come forth on this thread. I just thought we could do better. Maybe we still can.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Sam,

Are you forgetting already the reams of data posted on blufire's many pro-GMO threads?

I find this same old, same old, annoying. Why feed the Beast of Lies?

Have never seen any of it. Perhaps the membership of Avalon could demonstrate some understanding that we all do not read every thread or know the actual truth about everything such that someone like me might be pointed in the best direction.

How about a link to this thread?

[Dennis Leahy]

Interestingly, the video I posted in the OP address what is likely a far more important (and underlying) issue -

"tribal beliefs"

start at 46:00While there certainly is a phenomenon of "tribal beliefs" (herd mentality), it is a pretty weak argument for GMO. If the tribe teaches you (or you somehow assimilate from the tribe) that rattlesnakes are poisonous and here's how to avoid being bitten and respect the life of the creature, then you benefit from "tribal beliefs" without having to be bitten yourself. There are hundreds of thousands of ways that tribal beliefs assist us in daily life, even save our lives. It is "cultural learning." Of course, some tribal beliefs may be wrong, and there is nothing wrong with poking a stick at a dubious tribal belief. But GMOs? Aw, come on, Sam. There is nothing dubious about GMOs being healthy - the only people that pretend it is even a nebulous issue are GMO industry shills and those who fell for it. Read Seralini's report again, remembering that he has now won a couple of court cases against those (Monsanto et al) attacking Seralini's GMO and glyphosate data.

I won't repeat everything Matt P said, though I could. If you want a topic about "tribal beliefs", I'd recommend that you pick some tribal belief that actually is dubious or even proven to be wrong.

[Hervé]

. . .

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NmL2sLYl82o/VuL4mcx8O8I/AAAAAAAAJGo/XrQMRA0Cljwkp1sRlmS2g2C4FzfuO1k7g/s640/Bellingcrap.jpg

[onawah]

Here is Blufire's PA page, where you can find many links to threads and posts on the long and very tedious discussions we had about Monsanto and GMOs:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?2992-blufire
Have at it, Sam, please!
If you do so, I think you will discover why no long term PA members are going to be willing to re-open that very stinky can-of-worms GMO discussion.

BTW, re your statement about how you eat all organic, etc., I for one didn't miss it, I just found it kind of unbelievable, given the context of your post overall.

[Sierra]

Here you go Sam:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684555&viewfull=1#post684555

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=684901&viewfull=1#post684901

These are threads blufire started, she also had a lot to say about GMOs on other people's threads but ick, I'm not going there...

Blufire was strictly non GMO organic for herself, but for the "poor", another damn arrogant story entirely...

[Chester]

Here is Blufire's PA page, where you can find many links to threads and posts on the long and very tedious discussions we had about Monsanto and GMOs:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?2992-blufire
Have at it, Sam, please!
If you do so, I think you will discover why no long term PA members are going to be willing to re-open that very stinky can-of-worms GMO discussion.

BTW, re your statement about how you eat all organic, etc., I for one didn't miss it, I just found it kind of unbelievable, given the context of your post overall.

Thanks - this is far more like the Avalon I thought I knew...

Thank you, onawah

Its funny how people can take things the wrong way - my kids see me as militant about what I eat and drink.

But I began eating this way all and only because I followed the crowd and just assumed they had it right. Just like I did when I left Avalon 14 months or so ago.

In one case, I may have made the right call. In the other case, I currently believe I made the wrong call. I will allow each reader to decide which.

[Chester]

Here you go Sam:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59447-Seeds-of-Death-Unveiling-The-Lies-of-GMO-s-Full-Movie&p=684555&viewfull=1#post684555

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59869-Personal-controversial-view-of-Monsanto-Globalists-and-Technology&p=684901&viewfull=1#post684901

These are threads blufire started, she also had a lot to say about GMOs on other people's threads but ick, I'm not going there...

Blufire was strictly non GMO organic for herself, but for the "poor", another damn arrogant story entirely...

Exactly right... in regards to the poor. In fact, that is the very thing that irks me the most. If the arguments made in that video are known lies to those doing the video and/or this Entine guy, then it may not be wrong to conclude they are consciously supporting a eugenics program or at the very least, creating two distinct expressions of human on Earth.

[Dennis Leahy]

Here is Blufire's PA page, where you can find many links to threads and posts on the long and very tedious discussions we had about Monsanto and GMOs:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?2992-blufire
Have at it, Sam, please!
If you do so, I think you will discover why no long term PA members are going to be willing to re-open that very stinky can-of-worms GMO discussion.

BTW, re your statement about how you eat all organic, etc., I for one didn't miss it, I just found it kind of unbelievable, given the context of your post overall.

Thanks - this is far more like the Avalon I thought I knew...

Thank you, onawah

Its funny how people can take things the wrong way - my kids see me as militant about what I eat and drink.

But I began eating this way all and only because I followed the crowd and just assumed they had it right. Just like I did when I left Avalon 14 months or so ago.

In one case, I may have made the right call. In the other case, I currently believe I made the wrong call. I will allow each reader to decide which.Well, the issue you're presenting is "following the crowd" and that it can be bad for you. That's a good topic. I just think using GMO "food" as the specific shiny object that the murder of crows is focused on is not conducive to creating a conversation about "herd beliefs" but rather how someone could possibly believe anything good about GMOs after what we know, not just what we believe. Do you see what I'm saying? Your example immediately takes a turn away from "belief" because there exists hard data to override any beliefs. So, my point is: good topic; bad example.

You can get an immense boost in overall understanding of "the ways things work" by absorbing the group knowledge, and yet, still need to exercise discernment when accepting - and rejecting - group beliefs.

[Chester]

ahhh Dennis - In honesty, it didn't start that way. I actually watched the video and then realized I had never, ever obtained any real data that would suggest GMOs are "bad" as I am getting in reading the threads suggested a few posts above.

Yet the way it was reacted upon DID lead me to see that indeed I only went "clean" with regards to my own food intake all and only because of my listening to folks here and elsewhere say "GMO is bad."

So that's how I ended up making the other point yet I did not set out to do so.

Just know that that I feel its important we look at real evidence to make up our minds and that in the case of something new... we likely should have a real way of knowing the safety (or not) before being presented with the option en mass.

I also understand the complexity of our lovely planet and that my ideological statement has little chance of coming true when we have such rampant greed and even outright disdain of the masses from some of the wealthy.

Note: I am reading the threads. I am hoping to be pointed to evidence and not just read opinions.

I did feel like this comment though may sum it up the best -


Heifer International offers bee keeping options as well as the ones I mentioned above.

So many articles talk about building sustainable small neighborhood communities. But we seem to forget that advice whenever we (David) are facing a (Goliath) corporation. Sheer size intimidates us and puts us back into zombie acceptance.

I just wish folks would reference these "articles" so they can be sourced by folks like me who wish to do a better job of investigation than I did when I followed the Shaneloytes out the side door 1.3 months ago.

EDIT ADDED: Ohhh and Dennis, I am already feeling like I made the right call in following the crowd regarding organic/GMOs. I am making sure my words are clear for any reader who may take them wrong.

this video is (for me) far more compelling to me than the one I posted in the OP -

oPvkZv5MfRw

It is now one hour and 6 minutes after I made this original post and the video has been watched.

I am sorry, folks that I had no clue about this and that the first video I ever saw regarding the matter was the one posted in the OP.

I just hope folks can also show a little compassion for those who haven't been able to study about all these things "they" seem to be doing to "us" and maybe help em out a bit before slamming them.

[T Smith]

What would be the point in that?
Why should the forum be filled up with deceptive propaganda?
That would be nothing but a waste of time and space.
Avalon reaches low points from time to time in the amount of relevant and useful information being posted here, and that will only keep it at a low ebb.




Sam Hunter, post away all the deceptive propaganda you can find. I can determine on my own whether its content has merit or not.

The point is simple: to eschew censorship, however well-intended. It's a slippery slope when groupthink regulates what has value and what doesn't have value. And by the way, in my estimation there is plenty of material, even here on Avalon, that is a waste of time and space. So? Most of it gains little traction and fizzles away, as well it should. But I would never argue it shouldn't be here. The forum can determine that on its own. I either move past such material altogether, or if I feel strongly about it I will comment on why it's a waste of time and space, just as you have done in response to the OP. This is the "organic" way (pun intended) to extinguish nonsense.

Unlike Bluefire's threads, Sam Hunter is not arguing or advocating for GMOs. And yes, understanding propaganda has value, especially good propaganda that parades among the masses as fact. Such is often the hardest to dismantle. It is one thing to loudly (sometimes militantly) declare some point of view is deceptive propaganda and therefore should be expunged from discourse! It is quite another thing to understand how and why it works so well to deceive. To that end, I would prefer to be versed in all facets of an argument, especially those that are the most subtle, fallacious, and misleading.

If this thread evolves into something like an advertisement for GMOs, I will be the first to rescind my judgment and proffer my strong opposition. However, at this juncture, I feel the OPs video is rather benign and is well worth viewing.

Kind Regards,

T Smith

[Andre]

Sam, I don't see the point in posting a GMO propaganda video in Avalon that is clearly deceptive. It's no different to posting a video of Dick Cheney promoting war in the Middle East to safeguard U.S. interests and then claiming you just want to be open minded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With all due respect, the minute we fear propaganda is the minute we become more susceptible to it.

Sam Hunter, post away all the deceptive propaganda you can find. I can determine on my own whether its content has merit or not.

T Smith, while it may be true that a fear of propaganda can make one susceptible to it, I'm not sure how much fear of propaganda is relevant to this forum. As far as I can tell, most forum members here approach propaganda with a discerning eye and can smell a rat quite quickly. And that's exactly what happened in Sam's case; we very quickly pointed out to him that this was a propaganda piece as you can plainly see from the responses. I suspect that Sam was unsure and that's why he posted the video in the first place.

[Sierra]

Sam says:

I just hope folks can also show a little compassion for those who haven't been able to study about all these things "they" seem to be doing to "us" and maybe help em out a bit before slamming them.

Hi Sam, I apologize, I didn't mean to slam you. :bearhug:

Those threads took a lot of time and effort getting the data out there, and I was internally moaning at the idea we were going around the block again.

I was glad to reread the threads actually, and I wouldn't have done that if you had not brought up the topic. I think Avalon members nailed the GMO carcass to the barn door, beautifully.

Love, Sierra :heart:

[TigaHawk]

We have been manipulating plants for a very long time but in acompletely different way than what current GMO is. What we have been doing until GMO is this:

Example you get 5 different apple tree's as young saplings. You cut limbs off each one - then graft them together onto a single plant. When that grow's into a tree it will produce the fruits of all 5 apple tree's.

The same with pollination. The changes we have made you can clearly see here in pictures - this is what food used to look like before we started ****ing with it:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fc/85/5d/fc855d07f85410cb81cf2e6c3b6a6995.jpg
https://seedsaverswa.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/heirloom-corn1.jpg
http://www.cherrygal.com/images/HeirloomTomatoMix.jpg



What they are doing now (the best i can explain it - do some homework if you want the full explanation) Is on a cellular level they effectively have a ray gun. they load up the ray gun with a gene. They fire it millions of times at the selected target (say - a tomato plant - and they're putting a gene from a fish into it to make it resistant to something for whatever reason) 99% of what they fired will do nothing. 1% will stick and effectively change the plant.

Not the nice grab X transplant to Y scenario you originally imagined right? It's not precise. They dont know what they're doing for the most part - they just know if they keep pressing the button eventually they will relieve bacon. May take a million presses tho.

The fact that everything is patented and it is illigeal for consumers to purchase GMO seeds then do ANY RESEARCH WHATSOEVER on them - combined with the fact the only research that has been done on GMO crops is done by Mosanto itself - and only for a 3month period should be equally as worrying. I mean why would a multi billion dollar company make a product that hurts us - falsify tests and keep them at very short timeframes so you dont get any idea of long term effects - then go out of their way to shut anyone down that dares to do their own research? :) I mean i know company's are greedy but they would not just kill people willingly for money right. Just like our government would never hurt us or do bad by us! :dancing: I mean it's a brilliant yet evil thing to realise you cant just slap any old price tag on a plant as its something nature has provide - but dick around with it and change 1 small thing (who knows or cares what it really does - it's not natural any more - you can charge WHATEVER you want for it - and not get in trouble from fair trading because it's not the same as everything else thus does not have to compete in the same price range.


Also keep in mind how heavily GMO crops is dowsed with pesticides because "its resistant" and use some basic logic in your head. You spray a substance onto a plant. The plant will absorb it into itself. this works with you as well, not just plants - we have pores too! repeat spraying over time - plant absorbs it each time. Plant produces fruit. Fruit contains what has been sprayed on it. You then ingest fruit - which contains pesticides - designed to RUPTURE THE STOMACH OF INSECTS. And wonder why we have all sorts of stomach and immune related issues. Gut health goes hand in hand with your immune system.


Another reason they wont look at large scale organic farming because they all say "its too difficult / inefficient" - the current system is to have massive fields of a single crop - very few people to tend it and large machinery does the bulk of the work.

A large scale organic farm would be in one of those floating buildings Japan has come up with. Aquaponic/hydroponic setup. Vertical farming. Companion Planting. Imagine a 60 story building absolutely filled with plants in this manner?


How the **** did I end up in this madhouse. Everything is backwards claiming it is forwards. The full realisation of "there is a war going on for our minds" is quite daunting. Everything is so carefully engineered - right down to the way we perceive and react to different stimuli. I'll take 1 ticket to: Somewhere the hell away from here with a return date of : never ****ing ever please.


**no slamming intended - i think i just got a bit off my chest. :(

[Bill Ryan]

We have been manipulating plants for a very long time but in a completely different way than what current GMO is.

Yes. This (below) is the result of plant breeding, a very natural process which ingenious and resourceful humans have got very good at over the last several tens of thousands of years:

http://www.travel-pictures-gallery.com/images/ecuador/cuenca/cuenca-0027.jpg


This (below) is a real photo.
Researchers implanted a mold of a human ear and cartilage cells from cows' knees to obtain this result: a mouse growing a human-shaped ear along its spine.

It's not a high-tech breeding intervention, but it makes the point of how we're now meddling with nature in a way that may very well swing round and bite the human race right in the butt, bigtime.

http://truebiblecode.com/resources/transplants.gif

[1 flew over]

Hello Good Folk

I may have a twist on the GMO thing; I was having an email discussion some months back with a friend about gluten intolerance when the GMO thing entered the discussion. I have been gluten intolerant for about 20 years. I asked another friend who is also gluten intolerant, the odd part is that he grew up on a wheat ranch and did not develop the sensitivity until after he left the ranch. He has his PHD in microbiology in genetics so he could help his father develop more drought tolerant strains of wheat for the ranch. I figured having a little intellectual horsepower and experience might help the discussion.

I ran across some info and my friend continued following the thread. I was fairly sure that most wheat is not Monsanto GMOed and he agreed. What we ran into was that in big agra during harvest time, part of the wheat field is sprayed with Roundup/glyphosate. The wheat, not being Roundup ready starts dying and in a survival mode starts shoving all its growth energy and the Roundup into its grain which fattens it up and increases its yield. It kills that sprayed field off uniformly so in a couple of weeks that area can be harvested at the same time without worrying about some of the grain still being green and possibly causing the harvest to mold. In the mean time they have sprayed the next area a week or so later and therefore continue throughout the farm harvesting the recently sprayed, killed, larger yield wheat kernels with no mold and higher efficiency and yields. They just happened to be “enhanced” by the Roundup but not GMO. Small farms do not usually use this method but almost all wheat is collected and combined into huge silos until it is sold. Ah yes, the best of better living with chemistry and big agra.

My friend never developed wheat sensitivity until he left his farm. I traveled Southern/Central Africa for about a month and ate the local breads and desserts and had no problems but immediately flared back up when I returned to the states and so went back to gluten free. Roundup is not allowed in most African countries and especially is not used on small local farms.

He eventually traced my original ideas back to a couple of publications that I can look up if anyone really cares. Wheat is not usually Roundup/glyphosate ready but it is used heavily in that industry. The two concepts can get fairly crossed up. I eat nectarines and brocoflower and other crossbreeds but I probably will never eat GMO modified salmon, It just grosses me out.

Be Well
1 Flew Over

[conk]

Does anyone need any other information other than the fact that Monsanto is a proponent for GMOs?

[Hervé]

Hello Good Folk
[...]
He eventually traced my original ideas back to a couple of publications that I can look up if anyone really cares. Wheat is not usually Roundup/glyphosate ready but it is used heavily in that industry....
[...]
Be Well
1 Flew Over

Here is one: The Real Reason Wheat is Toxic (it’s not the gluten) (http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/real-reason-for-toxic-wheat-its-not-gluten/) with a bunch of references to other studies and very interesting comments.

Also reposted here: The gut of most disease... NOT what you think! (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43548-The-gut-of-most-disease...-NOT-what-you-think-&p=1012863&viewfull=1#post1012863)

[Andre]

What we ran into was that in big agra during harvest time, part of the wheat field is sprayed with Roundup/glyphosate. The wheat, not being Roundup ready starts dying and in a survival mode starts shoving all its growth energy and the Roundup into its grain which fattens it up and increases its yield. It kills that sprayed field off uniformly so in a couple of weeks that area can be harvested at the same time without worrying about some of the grain still being green and possibly causing the harvest to mold. In the mean time they have sprayed the next area a week or so later and therefore continue throughout the farm harvesting the recently sprayed, killed, larger yield wheat kernels with no mold and higher efficiency and yields. They just happened to be “enhanced” by the Roundup but not GMO. Small farms do not usually use this method but almost all wheat is collected and combined into huge silos until it is sold. Ah yes, the best of better living with chemistry and big agra.

My friend never developed wheat sensitivity until he left his farm. I traveled Southern/Central Africa for about a month and ate the local breads and desserts and had no problems but immediately flared back up when I returned to the states and so went back to gluten free. Roundup is not allowed in most African countries and especially is not used on small local farms.

He eventually traced my original ideas back to a couple of publications that I can look up if anyone really cares. Wheat is not usually Roundup/glyphosate ready but it is used heavily in that industry. The two concepts can get fairly crossed up. I eat nectarines and brocoflower and other crossbreeds but I probably will never eat GMO modified salmon, It just grosses me out.

Thanks 1flewover. You have explained the real cause for gluten intolerance quite well and hopefully readers who were not aware of the connection are now more knowledgeable. And Herve has added references so this has been a valuable comment threat and anyone with a gluten intolerence should try consuming organic wheat to avoid the glysophate and see what results they get.

Of course, this is just one more deception where gluten is made the scapegoat for glysophate just like lack of exercise is the scapegoat for obesity when the cause is sugar. We see the same tactic everywhere; cancer, autism and so forth.

Again, thanks 1flewover and Herve.

[pabranno]

Sam,
I have followed you since justoneman on Avalon. I remember I was blown away by your honesty, courage and relentlessness with yourself in pursuing yours and higher truths. I have always genuinely admired you and your intrepid journey. I thank you so much for your courage in sharing with us. You have inspired me in ways I cannot fully express.
Sam, I see so much in this post that reflects your continuing self-admonition of your well-intentioned error regarding the "herd mentality." incident. You are so beautifully insistent on exhorting yourself towards better perceptions, behavior and beliefs that your pendulum perhaps has swung too far the other way. Avalon understands. Give us credit. You are forgiven. You are admired and respected, for your intensity of sincere exploration and brutal self honesty. Let yourself off the hook, hon. We are all over it: I learned from it because you learned from it and shared it. I thank you for that. Now let yourself become our Justoneman again.
I know you don't know me, and others here may not agree, but I am very sincere Sam.

Respectfully,
Pamela

[bettye198]

I think it may be critical that before you choose a presidential candidate you see what their views are on GMO's.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/7/ted-cruz-dont-let-anti-science-zealotry-shutdown-g/

[regnak]

GMO Sam is the stuff of nightmares in scientific study's done in the United Kingdom human brain got a lot smaller in just one generation its other effects are quite shocking

Indeed my dream is to become a Healer ( Qigong chi ) , Engineer ( Walter Russell , Victor water wizard ), Farmer ( non- gmo rock dust ) mainly because I do not trust what is coming I done my research and GMO can be reversed

http://rexresearch.com/1index.htm but is better to go non-gmo as best you can.

Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation Paperback –by F. William Engdahl (Author)
Indeed the elite might be feeding you **** ( GMO ) but they are spending billions building there own Non-Gmo vault in the Artic



Doomsday Seed Vault” in the Arctic

Bill Gates, Rockefeller and the GMO giants know something we don’t



By F. William Engdahl

Global Research, January 28, 2016

http://www.globalresearch.ca/doomsday-seed-vault-in-the-arctic-2/23503

This article was first published in December 2007.

One thing Microsoft founder Bill Gates can’t be accused of is sloth. He was already programming at 14, founded Microsoft at age 20 while still a student at Harvard. By 1995 he had been listed by Forbes as the world’s richest man from being the largest shareholder in his Microsoft, a company which his relentless drive built into a de facto monopoly in software systems for personal computers.

In 2006 when most people in such a situation might think of retiring to a quiet Pacific island, Bill Gates decided to devote his energies to his Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the world’s largest ‘transparent’ private foundation as it says, with a whopping $34.6 billion endowment and a legal necessity to spend $1.5 billion a year on charitable projects around the world to maintain its tax free charitable status. A gift from friend and business associate, mega-investor Warren Buffett in 2006, of some $30 billion worth of shares in Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway put the Gates’ foundation into the league where it spends almost the amount of the entire annual budget of the United Nations’ World Health Organization.

So when Bill Gates decides through the Gates Foundation to invest some $30 million of their hard earned money in a project, it is worth looking at.

No project is more interesting at the moment than a curious project in one of the world’s most remote spots, Svalbard. Bill Gates is investing millions in a seed bank on the Barents Sea near the Arctic Ocean, some 1,100 kilometers from the North Pole. Svalbard is a barren piece of rock claimed by Norway and ceded in 1925 by international treaty (see map).

On this God-forsaken island Bill Gates is investing tens of his millions along with the Rockefeller Foundation, Monsanto Corporation, Syngenta Foundation and the Government of Norway, among others, in what is called the ‘doomsday seed bank.’ Officially the project is named the Svalbard Global Seed Vault on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen, part of the Svalbard island group.

The seed bank is being built inside a mountain on Spitsbergen Island near the small village of Longyearbyen. It’s almost ready for ‘business’ according to their releases. The bank will have dual blast-proof doors with motion sensors, two airlocks, and walls of steel-reinforced concrete one meter thick. It will contain up to three million different varieties of seeds from the entire world, ‘so that crop diversity can be conserved for the future,’ according to the Norwegian government. Seeds will be specially wrapped to exclude moisture. There will be no full-time staff, but the vault’s relative inaccessibility will facilitate monitoring any possible human activity.

Did we miss something here? Their press release stated, ‘so that crop diversity can be conserved for the future.’ What future do the seed bank’s sponsors foresee, that would threaten the global availability of current seeds, almost all of which are already well protected in designated seed banks around the world?

Anytime Bill Gates, the Rockefeller Foundation, Monsanto and Syngenta get together on a common project, it’s worth digging a bit deeper behind the rocks on Spitsbergen. When we do we find some fascinating things.

The first notable point is who is sponsoring the doomsday seed vault. Here joining the Norwegians are, as noted, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation; the US agribusiness giant DuPont/Pioneer Hi-Bred, one of the world’s largest owners of patented genetically-modified (GMO) plant seeds and related agrichemicals; Syngenta, the Swiss-based major GMO seed and agrichemicals company through its Syngenta Foundation; the Rockefeller Foundation, the private group who created the “gene revolution with over $100 million of seed money since the 1970’s; CGIAR, the global network created by the Rockefeller Foundation to promote its ideal of genetic purity through agriculture change

[Michelle Marie]

Also to add, a lot of them get round the GMO issue in other locations around the world by spraying the crops with something they like to call a hormone.

And there are many available, basically there are different compounds that produce different results at different times of the growth cycle , and I do mean lots of different results BTW, some compounds are tailor made to different soil types and geographical locations, some dictate the size & shape of the yield , some frequency of the growth.

The development moves very quickly in the fine tuning of these compounds, the last time I had an in depth discussion about this subject was a few years ago so you can imagine how far things have moved on as its such a massive market with lots of resources.

Some people are still surprised when you tell them that the crops they grow for cereal & bread are sprayed with industrial strength weed killer:(

Hormones in milk: rgbt-- I accidentally bought some when I was in a hurry. My cats would not drink it. I got rid of it.

The label said something about this hormone being ok according to....

If it's not ok for my kitties, it's not ok with me. They resumed drinking milk when I got the kind without the growth hormone.

Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated!

Love MM

[conk]

Also to add, a lot of them get round the GMO issue in other locations around the world by spraying the crops with something they like to call a hormone.

And there are many available, basically there are different compounds that produce different results at different times of the growth cycle , and I do mean lots of different results BTW, some compounds are tailor made to different soil types and geographical locations, some dictate the size & shape of the yield , some frequency of the growth.

The development moves very quickly in the fine tuning of these compounds, the last time I had an in depth discussion about this subject was a few years ago so you can imagine how far things have moved on as its such a massive market with lots of resources.

Some people are still surprised when you tell them that the crops they grow for cereal & bread are sprayed with industrial strength weed killer:(

Hormones in milk: rgbt-- I accidentally bought some when I was in a hurry. My cats would not drink it. I got rid of it.

The label said something about this hormone being ok according to....

If it's not ok for my kitties, it's not ok with me. They resumed drinking milk when I got the kind without the growth hormone.

Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated!

Love MMYou may have read about the experiments conducted by Dr. Weston Price. He fed several cats raw milk (cats don't really like milk, they can't process the sugars, but anyway) and they thrived. He fed a different set of cats pasteurized milk and they got sick. After a few generations they were sterile. Processed milk is bad, bad juju, especially skim or low fat milk. It's nothing but sewer water. The fat in raw dairy (conjugated linoic acid or GLA) is the most nutritious part of the milk, but the Processed Dairy Council pretends it's poison. Bizarro world mentality.

[Chester]

from the latest Ben Fulford -


The other Khazarian mafia stronghold under attack is the widely reviled Monsanto Corporation. Their attempt to ban the labelling of GMO crops on foodstuffs has backfired, and now several major food makers, including General Mills and Campbell Soup, have promised to label GMO foods. Furthermore, the FBI is now probing the various food poisoning outbreaks that affected the Chipotle fast food chain after it announced it was going GMO free. Initial evidence is pointing to Monsanto goons as being the culprits, FBI sources say.

[onawah]

This deserves a bump :bump:


Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation Paperback –by F. William Engdahl (Author)
Indeed the elite might be feeding you **** ( GMO ) but they are spending billions building there own Non-Gmo vault in the Arctic



Doomsday Seed Vault” in the Arctic

Bill Gates, Rockefeller and the GMO giants know something we don’t



By F. William Engdahl

Global Research, January 28, 2016

http://www.globalresearch.ca/doomsday-seed-vault-in-the-arctic-2/23503

This article was first published in December 2007.

One thing Microsoft founder Bill Gates can’t be accused of is sloth. He was already programming at 14, founded Microsoft at age 20 while still a student at Harvard. By 1995 he had been listed by Forbes as the world’s richest man from being the largest shareholder in his Microsoft, a company which his relentless drive built into a de facto monopoly in software systems for personal computers.

In 2006 when most people in such a situation might think of retiring to a quiet Pacific island, Bill Gates decided to devote his energies to his Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the world’s largest ‘transparent’ private foundation as it says, with a whopping $34.6 billion endowment and a legal necessity to spend $1.5 billion a year on charitable projects around the world to maintain its tax free charitable status. A gift from friend and business associate, mega-investor Warren Buffett in 2006, of some $30 billion worth of shares in Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway put the Gates’ foundation into the league where it spends almost the amount of the entire annual budget of the United Nations’ World Health Organization.

So when Bill Gates decides through the Gates Foundation to invest some $30 million of their hard earned money in a project, it is worth looking at.

No project is more interesting at the moment than a curious project in one of the world’s most remote spots, Svalbard. Bill Gates is investing millions in a seed bank on the Barents Sea near the Arctic Ocean, some 1,100 kilometers from the North Pole. Svalbard is a barren piece of rock claimed by Norway and ceded in 1925 by international treaty (see map).

On this God-forsaken island Bill Gates is investing tens of his millions along with the Rockefeller Foundation, Monsanto Corporation, Syngenta Foundation and the Government of Norway, among others, in what is called the ‘doomsday seed bank.’ Officially the project is named the Svalbard Global Seed Vault on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen, part of the Svalbard island group.

The seed bank is being built inside a mountain on Spitsbergen Island near the small village of Longyearbyen. It’s almost ready for ‘business’ according to their releases. The bank will have dual blast-proof doors with motion sensors, two airlocks, and walls of steel-reinforced concrete one meter thick. It will contain up to three million different varieties of seeds from the entire world, ‘so that crop diversity can be conserved for the future,’ according to the Norwegian government. Seeds will be specially wrapped to exclude moisture. There will be no full-time staff, but the vault’s relative inaccessibility will facilitate monitoring any possible human activity.

Did we miss something here? Their press release stated, ‘so that crop diversity can be conserved for the future.’ What future do the seed bank’s sponsors foresee, that would threaten the global availability of current seeds, almost all of which are already well protected in designated seed banks around the world?

Anytime Bill Gates, the Rockefeller Foundation, Monsanto and Syngenta get together on a common project, it’s worth digging a bit deeper behind the rocks on Spitsbergen. When we do we find some fascinating things.

The first notable point is who is sponsoring the doomsday seed vault. Here joining the Norwegians are, as noted, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation; the US agribusiness giant DuPont/Pioneer Hi-Bred, one of the world’s largest owners of patented genetically-modified (GMO) plant seeds and related agrichemicals; Syngenta, the Swiss-based major GMO seed and agrichemicals company through its Syngenta Foundation; the Rockefeller Foundation, the private group who created the “gene revolution with over $100 million of seed money since the 1970’s; CGIAR, the global network created by the Rockefeller Foundation to promote its ideal of genetic purity through agriculture change

[Curlew]

It looks like as if the slaves are waking up (finally)and people like Ben Fulford are leading the charge! I was impressed by the news about flouride, another one of my pet peeves. Being a part of crusade to enlighten the majority of people whom refuse to see the conspiricy was a major factor in my decision to join Avalon. I would add that there are quite a group of leaders in this gathering of Souls that deserve a pat on the back as well!

[Ki's]

Hi Sam,

I applaud your effort to take a step back and investigate other viewpoints then the ones that are popular in the alternative media. It can be refreshing indeed and even make us aware of our own tendencies to demonize for instance.

This interview however is far from objective.
Jon Entine (http://www.truthwiki.org/jon_entine/), the guy being interviewed is a notorious GMO propagandist and most of the claims that he makes in this interview are biased, arbitrary and often even blatant lies.

- Monsanto is not a good willing company that just happened to have this "bad luck" past and name that they got stuck with.
- GMO seeds are not harmless to nature and the animals and people who feed off it.
- It is not true that banning GMO seeds will cause large groups of people to starve to death. This is a blatant lie.
- It is not true that 87% of scientist claim that GMO is safe.

And this is just after 15 minutes into the interview. :)

The objections toward GMO are well documented and supported by facts imo and not a million Jon Entines can make me judge otherwise.

Yes, and what i feel is important is that I do my own investigations as opposed to following a herd mentality.

Its funny how so many in this thread missed the actual point.

It is also funny how it was missed my own statement of fact that I avoid all GMO, that I go organic in every way I can, I avoid processed foods, no anti-biotics or hormones in my foods as best as anyone can where I live while dwelling in a city environment.

Its funny how that got missed.

What I had hoped to experience in this thread is that folks who maybe have actually done their homework would have cited their sources for their views against (for example) Jon Entine and the data he cites and cites in a way that the listener might accept it all as actual fact.

It's funny, but about 14 or so months back I left this forum because I followed a crowd who I allowed to tell me that a certain individual intrinsically associated with this forum was a psychopath, was wittingly working with the dark side and with known "dark side" agencies and in fact was seen accompanied by a specific type of alien that is perceived by this group to be malevolent. I accepted these things as truth and ended up experiencing one of the darkest episodes of my life which ended, interestingly enough, when this same individual happened to forgive my own actions against this individual once I had left and gave me the option of restoring my membership.

Now back to the subject...

It would be nice that if there is indeed some verifiable, independent of any agenda, information regarding Jon Entine (for example) and Mosnanto as they exist now, it might be more productive to provide that.

This is not solely meant for myself. It is also meant for what very well may be new readers. It was this silly notion of mine that this forum was a place that rose above the vitriol that happened to come forth on this thread. I just thought we could do better. Maybe we still can.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Sam,

Are you forgetting already the reams of data posted on blufire's many pro-GMO threads?

I find this same old, same old, annoying. Why feed the Beast of Lies?

Have never seen any of it. Perhaps the membership of Avalon could demonstrate some understanding that we all do not read every thread or know the actual truth about everything such that someone like me might be pointed in the best direction.

How about a link to this thread?

It's really pretty simple. Google his name. avoid the superficial biographies and do a search on who his past clients, current clients and affiliations are with. It took me all of 30 seconds to discover he has significant ties to Monsanto, Syngenta and various industry front groups.

[Chester]

Its funny to look back... why I posted my OP -

Note how I pointed out that I have stayed away in every way I can from anything GMO ever since... ever since when?

Ever since a short while after I had joined Avalon 4 years ago.

Why? Because I kept coming upon a post here or there, usually by someone who I had begun to respect for their overall postings and their post might state something like "GMOs are bad."

So then why did I post the OP?

Because I had never actually done whatever research I may have needed to do upon my own. And for some reason because of a post made by Calz in that Trump thread which featured Stefan Molyneux, I watched and I found the guy energetic and interesting such that I clicked on his Youtube site where I scanned some of the other videos he had done and where I then listened to bits of a few of them where I then stumbled upon "Are Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs) Safe?" video.

So I listened and I felt the arguments were compelling. Well... now I understand why they would be but that's not the point I want to make here.

The point is - I wanted the GMO stuff to be safe.

Why?

Because I have loved ones who eat the stuff. My sons for example are barely able to buy food at all. They struggle to put a roof over their heads much less have the ability to spend money on the expensive (safer) foods.

So I just wanted it to be safe.

It breaks my heart they are eating this crap which probably shrinks their brains and that this will likely effect their life experience. I sadly was just hoping maybe what this Entine was saying might be true.

I figured posting it here on Avalon would get feedback either way. I learned a different lesson though in this regard.

I would like to make a statement.

It flat out sucks that no one can trust anyone at all whatsoever in a world of 7 billion plus human beings and zillions of other living beings such that we all have to do research on every single thing we involve ourselves with which has been created and/or produced and/or supported and/or suggested and/or sold and/or mandated by others where in almost all cases what is being created/produced/supported/suggested/sold and mandated is done without care of what it might do to others or in many cases knowingly harms others.

It just flat out sucks.

[onawah]

It sucks the big one and to see more of why, don't miss this post:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72183-Monsanto-Losing-Grounds&p=1056183&viewfull=1#post1056183

...and you might consider taking action at the links provided, too. Every little bit helps.

It just flat out sucks.