Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

[Elandiel BernElve]

Heyall,

It's been some years since I've been active on this forum.
Project Avalon took me so far in space it took me some years to ground back again, get my life moving and gather enough courage to go into deep space yet again :)

I miss the intellect and spirituality of this online community so much as well as energizing my personal et connection that I can only come back here like a lost son.

On topic:
Now somehow my youtube account is spamming me with "maybe you find this interesting" about Flat Earth theories.
Lately I was at a party and someone started talking to me about it.

What is up with this whole thing? Is there an operation running globally to get people to believe the Earth is flat?

So the question is not whether it's flat because you know... hah. It ain't.

But the question is WHY ? What is the purpose of this disinfo?


Thanks in advance and bless you

[aviators]

Flat Earth threads here on Avalon seem to get escorted to the back room to die.
Nothing to see here.
FE is exploding and for perhaps good reason. Over 5 million videos and growing daily.
Here is a short but perhaps significant video. Pay close attention to the words Leonardo uses.
Food for thought. Gods speed...

KLnNa5KwkJo

[TargeT]

IMO, FE is a purposefully introduced disinformation campaign to see how gullible/leadable/trickable humans are currently... it was a psychological test to see our current level of "trickability)

ZgxYHMu4wqI


According to this video Bill and Carry are both masonic COINTELPRO agents!!! (but other than that, there's some interesting info)
pWmX0R52Uzc

[Elandiel BernElve]

Thanks for your answer, mysterious encounter indeed.

And yes I've noticed information is hard to find here.

My question is where this phenomenon comes from and why it has gained such momentum without actually discussing its validity.

Hopefully there will be room to discuss that specific part of the subject.

Like Trump, you can hate him, you can love him. But his movement and impact on itself are enough food for debate and can also be discussed without engaging in an anti or pro contest.

[Cidersomerset]

This topic came up on another thread and I had not heard much about it
as you can see from my response see link below.Although at first it sounds
ridiculous I watched and listened to a few vids and at least they are putting
forward a thought provoking if ancient case......

It would be the mother of all covers up if true , greater than if ET exists imo
I find it hard to believe the earth is flat , but that's what we are here for...LOL


Re: Did we go to the Moon or not? Give me your best reasons

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89217-Did-we-go-to-the-Moon-or-not-Give-me-your-best-reasons&p=1051754&viewfull=1#post1051754


This is a thought provoking presentation......

The FLAT EARTH LIVE!! [Lancashire, England @ New Horizons]

7UuW9CqhBdE

[ZooLife]

I see the Flat Earth movement as being complex and that is why it sustains existence.

One part is well explained in TargeT's post among others on this forum and I can see why FE's appearance on the forum is not ignored by the keepers of Avalon.

Another part would be rooted in the same place (roughly speaking) as other non-traditional ideas about the makeup of our universe such as the hollow earth or hollow moon theories.

And then there is the use of FE as part of an analogy when attempting to describe spirituality vs. physicality using dimensionality and geometry.

[MorningSong]

I haven't followed any of the discussions/threads here on Avalon about the FE theory, but I must admit that I have been running into it more often than before on the "outside" as well.

Maybe we should try to figure out what's going on.... my first thought goes to the dumbing down of all humans and "someone" (the famous "they") trying to re-write our history/programming in that respect.

I truely can't imagine why we should even contemplate a flat earth... the evidence appears solid. But asking ourselves "why" and "why now" could be interesting.

That DiCaprio vid above formulates new questions: What is he implying by "you see the blackened sky...which rappresents so much what's going on in the environment (... ) today" . What does he say is in the back... erronimus barsh??...(heheh excuse my ignorance). Why does it rappresent a "promise of the future and enlightenment"?

From under the vid by the person who uploaded it:


Speaking in English, Leonardo offered the pontiff a book of works by the 15th-century Dutch painter Hieronymus Bosch and showed him the reproduction of the artist's "Garden of Earthly Delights" that hung over his crib as an infant.

One should point their attention to this painting to understand the mention re: flat earth:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Hieronymus_Bosch_-_The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights_-_The_exterior_%28shutters%29.jpg/220px-Hieronymus_Bosch_-_The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights_-_The_exterior_%28shutters%29.jpg

From Wiki:


When the triptych's wings are closed, the design of the outer panels becomes visible. Rendered in a green–gray grisaille,[11] these panels lack colour, probably because most Netherlandish triptychs were thus painted, but possibly indicating that the painting reflects a time before the creation of the sun and moon, which were formed, according to Christian theology, to "give light to the earth".[12] It was common for the outer panels of Netherlandish altarpieces to be in grisaille, such that their blandness highlighted the splendid colour inside.[13]

The outer panels are generally thought to depict the creation of the world,[14] showing greenery beginning to clothe the still-pristine Earth.[15] God, wearing a crown similar to a papal tiara (a common convention in Netherlandish painting),[12] is visible as a tiny figure at the upper left. Bosch shows God as the father sitting with a Bible on his lap, creating the Earth in a passive manner by divine fiat.[16] Above him is inscribed a quote from Psalm 33 reading "Ipse dixit, et facta sunt: ipse mandāvit, et creāta sunt"—For he spake and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.[17] The Earth is encapsulated in a transparent sphere recalling the traditional depiction of the created world as a crystal sphere held by God or Christ.[18] It hangs suspended in the cosmos, which is shown as an impermeable darkness, whose only other inhabitant is God himself.[12]

Despite the presence of vegetation, the earth does not yet contain human or animal life, indicating that the scene represents the events of the biblical Third Day.[10] Bosch renders the plant life in an unusual fashion, using uniformly gray tints which make it difficult to determine whether the subjects are purely vegetable or perhaps include some mineral formations.[10] Surrounding the interior of the globe is the sea, partially illuminated by beams of light shining through clouds. The exterior wings have a clear position within the sequential narrative of the work as a whole. They show an unpopulated earth composed solely of rock and plants, contrasting sharply with the inner central panel which contains a paradise teeming with lustful humanity.

No humanity yet in that sphere! Welcome to DiCaprio's future!?!

[aviators]

Thanks for your answer, mysterious encounter indeed.

And yes I've noticed information is hard to find here.

My question is where this phenomenon comes from and why it has gained such momentum without actually discussing its validity.

Hopefully there will be room to discuss that specific part of the subject.

Like Trump, you can hate him, you can love him. But his movement and impact on itself are enough food for debate and can also be discussed without engaging in an anti or pro contest.

Having spent some serious time researching this topic.:waving:
Below are some recent videos that may help answer this question.
I hope people here can be respectfull and open minded enough to have a intelligent
discussion on this.

Some of our past history.

1WHIr-IFqAo

Here is some info. on the recent movement.
YmGjxmXL8FU

Always read between the lines.

[TargeT]

Here is some info. on the recent movement.
YmGjxmXL8FU

Always read between the lines.

I too spent time on this topic...

here's one thing that the Flat earth falls.... Flat on..

I'm a long range shooter (not much choice... military) and this is a very very real thing.

jX7dcl_ERNs


And with that one thing (and the fact that water drains in different directions depending on which side of the equator you are on) pretty much shuts down the whole thing instantly.

there are some compelling arguments, but they are VERY careful to ignore things like the Coriolis effect...

[Elandiel BernElve]

Thanks Aviators, interesting videos, I don't completely agree and I don't have to but it has some revealing new info.
After having watched some vids it seems to me as a mixture of a conservative religious revival with the current times inspiring a near apocalypse; and indeed some sort of big cointel campaign push with often bulliying and bad attitude towards 'round earthers' that just sprung out of nowhere. That on itself is suspicious.

The fact its being shoved up into the mainstream and harsly pushed into youtube recommendations is a red flag to me there.

Polling whether humanity is so weak minded somewhat resonates. If they can persuade the truthers than they definately can persuade the masses.
It definately feels like a distraction to me. This whole FE stuff coming up just right before the whole planet x reveal starts buzzing again.
I mean, this is just my mind wandering off here. But FE somewhat dismisses the existence of the universe and thus also dismissing a cosmic event like a planet with an orbit of 20.000 years coming in and igniting a new cycle.
IF, just IF there is a big coverup going on what planet x (or should I say Red Dwarf + moon + Nibiru) concerns then, to make a considerable piece of humanity believe the earth is flat hence dismissing such a cosmic event is a very smart, chesslike thing to do.
And let's not forget the impact on global consciousness, throwing it back with old ideas.
In the end when there is so much confusion and our human community lacks a cohesive consciousness and awareness of our direct environment we have come to the point of being divided.
I hope this phenomenon will not break up the Truth community on Earth. We see how easy our differences can blind us for the things we agree on. Apart from the FE most truthers embrace the same values and things overall.
Anyhow, these are just assumptions in a ramble.

I have been thinking though, from another perspective.
In my dreams, I always see planets, and space, other worlds, spheres, even the earth in deep meditation when I fly away, she's a globe.

She can only be, and it's through this personal connection with Gaia and the Source, when the sand crawls between my feet as I gaze upon the horizon..
That I realize we just have to feel if it resonates.

I'll leave that up to you

Bless

[eagle0027]

I would highly recommend reading Anelia Benzes short book Interview with a psycic assassin.Near the end there is an explanation of hollow earth that is an exellent reminder of our 3d perspective basially not grasping the creator being one with the created among other very interesting mind expanding subjects.
Interestingly even though there are very ancient flat maps one would think with the thousands of years of earths habitation of many probable highly intelligent beings i have never seen an ancient globe .

[Elandiel BernElve]

Hey Eagle,

Take a look here, they definately exist.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?62756-Oldest-Globe-to-Show-the-Americas-Discovered

I forgot to mention that actually, on the contrary there are many ancient archeological sites depicting our solar system, star systems, our planet's orbit etc.

[Bill Ryan]

.
1) It's a meme injected into the alternative media to discredit it.

2) We welcome intelligent discussion — but UNintelligent discussion usually results in these kinds of threads being closed. We'd not be doing our job if we allowed the quality of Avalon's conversation to fall below a certain standard (which is why we filter membership applications in the first place). This is not Rumor Mill News, or Godlike Productions. :)

3) Don't just copy and paste YouTube videos made by people who have little or no understanding of astronomy, math or physics. That's lazy. Think for yourself, speak for yourself, and do by all means share your answer to the question posted — it's a very good one.

Do please note, though, that I'm certain that my own brief answer in (1) above headlines the situation, though there may be other aspects to the phenomenon. Another contributing factor might be increasing internet exposure to astronomical concepts, without the basic background in math, physics or astronomy for quite a lot of people to understand or critique what they're reading, watching or listening to. That was not nearly so much the case in previous generations. The Greeks knew the Earth was round over 2,000 years ago (https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene). We should be advancing our knowledge, not going backwards!

4) If any new members are unaware of the previous Avalon discussions, there have been quite a few threads on the subject already. They can be searched for (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89341-Advanced-Google-search-techniques) easily. The most recent (and one of the longest) is here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83765-A-Flat-Earth-not-Round-...). It's closed now, but it's fully public and anyone wanting to read through the many interesting posts there of course is most welcome to do so.

[TigaHawk]

They are trying very very very hard to make conspiracy theorists look like nutjobs.

Flat earth is a great way to do so. Flat earth is a conspiracy (a stupid one too) therefore keep pushing that as a big thing that conspiracy theorists believe in to discredit them.

I have also noticed a LOT of trash talking in video games (audio files in the game that are played by NPC's you hear around you) that go out of their way to make conspiracy theorists sound like insane quack jobs.

[Elandiel BernElve]

Thanks Bill,

I completely agree. i did a search but the results were way too saturated so i will have a look at your provided link.

You confirm my intuition ánd common sense. Thus making my question more valid.

Why is this such a hype being pushed in global conscioussness?
Like I wrote before:
In the end when there is so much confusion and our human community lacks a cohesive consciousness and awareness of our direct environment we have come to the point of being divided.
I hope this phenomenon will not break up the Truth community on Earth. We see how easy our differences can blind us for the things we agree on. Apart from the FE most truthers embrace the same values and things overall.


So it's a divide and conquer tactic, for me this case is closed.

Feel free to continue the discussion though

[Elandiel BernElve]

I have also noticed a LOT of trash talking in video games (audio files in the game that are played by NPC's you hear around you) that go out of their way to make conspiracy theorists sound like insane quack jobs.

True, yet I can point as many video games with hidden gems of secret info that's there to credit it. One of the reasons why many hardcore pc gamers and hackers from the underground gaming community know a lot is their strong connection with internet. Some of them end up being indie or mainstream developers and won't hesitate to share the truth hidden in games.

[Bill Ryan]

it's a divide and conquer tactic, for me this case is closed.



Yes! :clapping:

There's another contributing factor, which I think is interesting and worth discussing. There's a real distrust these days, among more and more people, of any statement made by any perceived authority figure.

This then leads self-styled intellectual rebels to swing wildly to an opposite extreme that's sometimes almost literally crazy. Because NASA's statements about the Apollo moon landings can be very seriously doubted, the rebels then hold that all NASA footage of everything is faked, and therefore all orbital shots showing a curved horizon are also false.

There are many examples of this kind of pendulum swing. It may be interesting for readers here to list some of them.

In the works of Spock, that's illogical. :) The response is actually an emotional one, based entirely on rebellion and reaction.

Like "Well, if you're saying this, then the opposite must be true." Things just don't work that way.

[ZooLife]

If one is to free themselves from conventional thinking then here is something to consider....

2D (flat) creatures view their world much in the same way as 3D creatures see their world.

2Ds experiences 2D and that is the extent of their world, they cannot fully conceive of 3D, for them it doesn't exist (fully materialized).

It is much the same for 3Ds. There is a 'dimensionality' that 3Ds cannot fully conceive of but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

This commonality between 2Ds and 3Ds allows them to intersect and thus they both exist simultaneously....same 'place', same 'time'.

2Ds and 3Ds are both right and wrong per their perspective worlds. All worlds occupy the same space simultaneously.

Think of a dimensional singularity in which all dimensions appear to arise from.

[Elandiel BernElve]

This then leads self-styled intellectual rebels to swing wildly to an opposite extreme that's sometimes almost literally crazy. Because NASA's statements about the Apollo moon landings can be very seriously doubted, the rebels then hold that all NASA footage of everything is faked, and therefore all orbital shots showing a curved horizon are also false.

That is a more and more recurring effect visible in society nowadays and it worries me.
It's uncivlized and unnuanced to think in strong emotional dualities like that. I face it everyday in Europe. For example if you're not supporting the migrants you're immediately against them, and xenophobic, and racist. It's the same mechanic in which nuance or considering a broad spectrum of possibilties is not plausible. If NASA faked the moon landing indeed it doesn't mean they haven't been there. If politicians lie to us it doesn't mean they always lie to us, etc.

It's the main reason I came back to this forum. There're so many intelligent angles offered through reactions here it brings back the nuance, criticism and desire to peel through the layers that I miss so much in the daily routine and on public internet.

[Dennis Leahy]

IMO, FE is a purposefully introduced disinformation campaign to see how gullible/leadable/trickable humans are currently... it was a psychological test to see our current level of "trickability)I agree 100%.

[eagle0027]

Elandial...thanx for that picture..funny i have never ran across it
Being a pilot have never believed that at least in this reality that the earth could be anything other than round.

[samildamach]

I blame Terry pratchett and that Damn turtle

[Craig]

without getting in too deep the very idea of a flat earth just confuses me, a flat earth would have edges so what happens there? and how does the water move around? mountains? if plates are forced together why don't they go in the path of least resistance and move out beyond the edges? Satellites? How would they work? Anyway I am getting carried away, just some prelim thoughts on the absurd matter.





Edit from Bill (forgive me!) — you forgot to mention time zones. You're in Australia... well, I'm writing these words 6 minutes after you posted. Here, In Ecuador, it's 9.35 pm, and it's dark outside. In fact, I'm about to go to bed. I'll get up at sunrise, 8 hours from now.

:)

:focus:

[aviators]

Thanks for your answer, mysterious encounter indeed.

And yes I've noticed information is hard to find here.

My question is where this phenomenon comes from and why it has gained such momentum without actually discussing its validity.

Hopefully there will be room to discuss that specific part of the subject.

Like Trump, you can hate him, you can love him. But his movement and impact on itself are enough food for debate and can also be discussed without engaging in an anti or pro contest.

Matt Boylan worked for NASA allegedly as an freelance painter. Some say he had a big part in this movements traction.
He was informed at a NASA party that satellites don't work in Antarctica because i'ts flat.

Quote " I worked for NASA and here's the truth, here's my story and the greatest deception the world will ever face: the earth,
it's size, it's shape, all images they show you are not the truth... get ready , it's going to be hard to swallow. This is my story as an artist faking your universe. "

YKbdH7a2IZw

Part 2. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QAUeRZumU

Part 3. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DcVETa_98

[thunder24]

i have not read this, but how bout this...

how does it change your every day life...? earth is flat now what... "oh they lied to us"... ok now what... oh it opened peoples minds to the fact that they lied to us....great...now what...

and on and on.... it doesn't freaking matter... at this point in the game....

[dim]

jX7dcl_ERNs



at about 1min he says:

so as the bullet leaves the barrel of the gun, the earth is still rotating
and the bullet is NOT rotating with the earth

say what ?!
i'm no in to FE or anything, almost accidentally clicked on the clip
but please correct me if i'm wrong but this is basic physics
of course it DOES rotating with the earth
or else we would just jump in say florida and land on chicago.

[amor]

Considering what the government has deliberately done to the education system and English language by distorting and dumbing down, it makes perfect sense that they would try to tell you the earth is flat to hide the space program and keep people as mind controlled slaves with their heads in the sand.

[Bill Ryan]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YKbdH7a2IZw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKbdH7a2IZw)

Please don't just copy and paste YouTube videos without your own intelligent critique! Do take the time and trouble to think for yourself.




say what ?!


You can look up the Coriolis Effect (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22Coriolis+Effect%22) on the internet. There are many detailed articles and videos. The effect on the accuracy of long-distance snipers is very tiny, but it's there. Even though the Earth is an inertial frame of reference, in the very short time between firing a bullet and it hitting its long-distance target (say, a mile away), the Earth has moved just a little underneath it — and the target with it, too. It's extremely small, but it's a measurable effect.

[Eram]

[snip]

The FLAT EARTH LIVE!! [Lancashire, England @ New Horizons]

7UuW9CqhBdE

Hi Cidersomerset,

I actually took the time to watch the entire presentation.
Fascinating character. :P


What made me sit up straight at minute 26:45, was when he stated that the flat earth map that is commonly used cannot be true, because then an airplane that flies from New Zealand to Argentina would surely take a route over the North pole instead of flying over the Pacific ocean that it does in reality.
33042

Since this was the first thing that came to mind to disprove "flat earth" when I first heard about it over a year ago, I though to myself: " Wauw, this is gonna be good. He came to the conclusion that this map cannot be true and is still convinced that the earth is flat. I can't wait to see how he is going to make it work" :)

Imagine my disappointment when he finally, after 100 minutes into the presentation showed the map that he thinks is the real one.
33044

Oh nooo, he has a square map!!
Now all the people who sailed and rowed around the world have to be fantasists and or lairs.

To his credit: He still has some problems with the square map too, but he's sure that he will figure it out in the end.
I don't share his optimism :P

[Nick Matkin]

Just a note about maps.

If the earth were flat there would never have been any reason to come up with many types of world maps, all trying to find the least-worst ways of projecting a sphere (or part thereof) onto a flat surface.

The Great Circle Map (showing the actual bearings and distances between two points on a sphere) is used by pilots and long-distant (non-satellite) radio communication so you know where to point the antennas.

Thus a flat earth would have been confirmed in the very early days of radio communication. It wasn't. Case closed!

[TargeT]

i have not read this, but how bout this...

how does it change your every day life...? earth is flat now what... "oh they lied to us"... ok now what... oh it opened peoples minds to the fact that they lied to us....great...now what...

and on and on.... it doesn't freaking matter... at this point in the game....

It does matter, it wastes peoples time... one of the few things we have in limited quantity... & it burns people out, another dead end rabbit hole: why look further if they are all like this?

A. Huxley wrote a book along this lines "A brave new world" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World) in the book part of the way society is controlled is through over saturation.

Over saturation, or "numbing" or desensitizing people is actually quite easy; once a new threshold is reached and held for a certain amount of time it becomes the new normal...

your response is exactly why we are being over saturated, to get more of "that".




say what ?!
i'm no in to FE or anything, almost accidentally clicked on the clip
but please correct me if i'm wrong but this is basic physics
of course it DOES rotating with the earth
or else we would just jump in say florida and land on chicago.

once an object leaves contact with the ground the earth "moves" under it because the two bodies are no longer connected, the earth continues to rotate and the object that left it is no longer rotating with it. A person COULD jump in florida and land in chicago if they stayed up long enough (obviously not possible).. this is a VERY small effect, but it's present. you could test this by driving in a car and tossing a ball up into the air (yes wind resistance plays a role, but in a vacuum once the ball leaves the vehicle while it's moving the car will move out from under the ball, of course on a planet as big as the earth and us as small as we are it's hard to directly observe with out setting up some experiments).

[Bill Ryan]

Just a note about maps


Maps, quite so. My favorite map clip is this one, in case any readers haven't yet seen it: 'Cartographers for Social Equality' — really quite wonderful. It's inspired and hilarious, but does make a serious point about how arbitrary (or weighted) map projections really are.

:bigsmile:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH1bZ0F3zVU

Nick, I know you've thought about this quite a lot. What's your personal best answer to the question in the thread? One of the factors I'm always aware of is how these kinds of discussions, even if they're measured, informed and intelligent, can easily make everyone on Avalon seem like an idiot, simply by inference and association. I'm certain this is the purpose.

It's hard to get one's mainstream-influenced friends, neighbors or family pay attention to issues about 9/11, GMOs, chemtrails, or government surveillance — let along the Secret Space Program! — when the alternative media is tainted (and I use that word advisedly) by injected material like this. One can imagine the CIA spooks laughing their socks off at how easily influenced we all are.

(An interesting note: I was e-mailed a few years ago by someone who told me they'd been approached by the CIA to 'write fiction' for them. He declined the offer... but it made him think pretty deeply. Me too. I wonder what 'fiction' really IS being strongly peddled in our direction by CIA-hired creative writers, all packaged as 'new truths'.)

[Eram]

I can't say that I have a solid answer as to why this idea of flat earth is becoming popular so fast all of a sudden, but I have some impressions and ideas about the subject:

There are certain ideas running around in the "truth seekers" information stream that (at least to me) have some unexplainable pull or tug to get drawn in.
In a weird way, by which there is some sort of force to place subjective emotional thinking above: logic, facts and common sense.

To me, it seems as if these idea's get a certain magnetic charge by unknown means to pull people in.

[norman]

......Now somehow my youtube account is spamming me with "maybe you find this interesting" about Flat Earth theories.

Lately I was at a party and someone started talking to me about it.

What is up with this whole thing? Is there an operation running globally to get people to believe the Earth is flat?

So the question is not whether it's flat because you know... hah. It ain't.

But the question is WHY ? What is the purpose of this disinfo?




All our internet chatter is captured. A lot of people tend to think there is far too much data for them to do much with it. I don't see it like that. The google search engine can make quite good sense of ALL the data available on the "light" web ( as distinct from the "dark" web ). If google search can do it, so can they.

Time is moving on, They have been experimenting and developing A.I. intelligence to sit atop the data and work with it. There was one called Promethius, a while ago. Presumably, they experimented with one called Jade, because they are now using one called Jade2.

Jade2 is very probably capable of learning from our chatter. Further more, human operators/computer scientists will likely be thinking up ideas to maximize the ability of Jade2 to learn stuff from our chatter.

They have quite a unique scenario going. They can borrow methods from other fields of technical research. One such field is 'acoustic sampling'. This is where definite and short bursts or pings of sound are projected into an acoustic space, and the returning echoes and reverberations are recorded. These recordings are analyzed and modelled into algorythms that can be used to process ANY sound to make it sound like it is being heard in that exact acoustic space.

I believe they are experimenting with something similar on the internet and coming up with algorythms that Jade2 can use. In this case, one of the "pings" they are using is a rediculous meme called flat earth theory. There are very probably others.

So, as I see it, it goes a little further than just trying to make us look stupid.

[thunder24]

i have not read this, but how bout this...

how does it change your every day life...? earth is flat now what... "oh they lied to us"... ok now what... oh it opened peoples minds to the fact that they lied to us....great...now what...

and on and on.... it doesn't freaking matter... at this point in the game....

It does matter, it wastes peoples time... one of the few things we have in limited quantity... & it burns people out, another dead end rabbit hole: why look further if they are all like this?

A. Huxley wrote a book along this lines "A brave new world" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World) in the book part of the way society is controlled is through over saturation.

Over saturation, or "numbing" or desensitizing people is actually quite easy; once a new threshold is reached and held for a certain amount of time it becomes the new normal...

your response is exactly why we are being over saturated, to get more of "that".




I think it is 100% a waste of time.... sorry I wasnt clear with what I was saying... When I say it doesn't matter I meant quite wasting time... i see how that could of been confuseing

[Nick Matkin]

Just a note about maps


Nick, I know you've thought about this quite a lot. What's your personal best answer to the question in the thread? One of the factors I'm always aware of is how these kinds of discussions, even if they're measured, informed and intelligent, can easily make everyone on Avalon seem like an idiot, simply by inference and association. I'm certain this is the purpose.


My best answer?

That's a tough one, however, as I've written before I think it boils down to:

The mostly harmless but irritating mischiefs who just throw these silly ideas into receptive pools of the willingly gullible and sit back to watch the ripples. They get nefarious pleasure watching the threads morph into areas such as the philosophical debates discussing the meaning of reality. Worthy or ulimately just time wasting?

Then there are those who just don't have a 'mind model' of what many of us take for granted, and they question stuff. That's fine, but in this specific subject it has never occurred to them about maps. They have never heard of or seen a Great Circle map or why it had to be invented. They don't understand orbits or satellites, neither do they appreciate the tens of thousands of engineers, designers and users (both amateur and professional) of satellites that prove the earth is not flat at so many levels.

There may be some orchestrated effort to discredit the alternative media. But forgive me if I think we're flattering ourselves if we think any agency considers us important enough to do that. But you Bill, are much better placed to know.

Neither would I be surprised if this and similar forums are used as test beds for the spread of memes. Probably by nothing more sinister that psychology or sociology students, but you never know...

And maybe once or twice this forum has been specifically targeted with silly threads that have to be closed because they *do* bring the forum into disrepute. But of course this leaves the mods open to accusations of 'censorship' and 'controlling content'!

Back to maps. It's really disappointing when people need to be shown the true relative sizes of countries, because all they've ever seen and never questioned is a Mercator map. After the West Wing video you posted, here is one of may sites emphasizing the point...

http://www.citymetric.com/horizons/true-size-map-lets-you-move-countries-around-globe-show-how-big-they-really-are-1380

[Cidersomerset]

I actually took the time to watch the entire presentation.
Fascinating character.

That's what I thought ,like Andrew Basiago and many others if they are
sincere whether right or wrong I like to at least respect their views.


Maps, quite so. My favorite map clip is this one, in case any readers
haven't yet seen it: 'Cartographers for Social Equality' — really quite wonderful. It's
inspired and hilarious, but does make a serious point about how arbitrary (or
weighted) map projections really are.

I was just about to post that vid as the part about the map was interesting
even though I had heard it before....I presume it is genuine ??



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall%E2%80%93Peters_projection

http://thegandr.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/peters-vs-mercator.png

[ozmirage]

"Flat Earth" and "We didn't land on the Moon" and other popular anti-establishment stands are popular because they're contrary.

Once an individual is awakened to the fact that he is a victim of propaganda and disinformation, he rebels against "authority" and its pronouncements - even the ones that are factual.

This reactionary skepticism fits in with the goal of the world's greatest propaganda ministry - dissolve the unity of the prey so they cannot oppose the predators.

If the harmless productive people stay united in their defense against their enemies, foreign or domestic, predators are doomed. But if they can be misled and confused and tricked into endless arguments over non-issues, hoaxes, and ideological nonsense, the predators can escape notice.

Unfortunately, tolerance of predators is unmerciful to their next victim.

[TargeT]

Nick, I know you've thought about this quite a lot. What's your personal best answer to the question in the thread?

I'm guessing the question pertains to the OP and the title why is FE so popular

I sort of answered my take below:





I can't say that I have a solid answer as to why this idea of flat earth is becoming popular so fast all of a sudden, but I have some impressions and ideas about the subject:

There are certain ideas running around in the "truth seekers" information stream that (at least to me) have some unexplainable pull or tug to get drawn in.
In a weird way, by which there is some sort of force to place subjective emotional thinking above: logic, facts and common sense.

To me, it seems as if these idea's get a certain magnetic charge by unknown means to pull people in.

Ever wonder why magicians used "spells" on people?


now you know why it's called "spell", what you are noticing is the "spelling" of masters, magicians that understand the psyche so well that they can manipulate you even though they've never met you ( but then, they don't have to meet you do they? you, like me, like almost everyone you know are all societal carbon copies of each other, sure you might drink coke and I drink pepsi, but those differences are so small that it's negligible.)

another great example is "click bait" -- they know us SO WELL that there is a FORMULA to get people to click on links... think about that, a formula to get people to do what you want... MAGIC!
DXJDBp0yW1A

When psychological profiling (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/11838515/This-online-tool-reveals-your-personality-based-on-Facebook-likes.html) becomes ridiculously easy via the internet (mostly facebook and sites like that (Flicker, Twitter, etc)

So yeah, hope that helps you understand.

Oh, and no one knows how to critically think anymore (there's a formula for that too & they stopped teaching it to the common public in the Roman times), so logic and facts are trumped by emotion and logical fallacy.



I think it is 100% a waste of time.... sorry I wasnt clear with what I was saying... When I say it doesn't matter I meant quite wasting time... i see how that could of been confuseing

yes, and maybe a couple of other agendas as well (discrediting "truthers" being one)

[dim]

once an object leaves contact with the ground the earth "moves" under it because the two bodies are no longer connected, the earth continues to rotate and the object that left it is no longer rotating with it. A person COULD jump in florida and land in chicago if they stayed up long enough (obviously not possible).. this is a VERY small effect, but it's present. you could test this by driving in a car and tossing a ball up into the air (yes wind resistance plays a role, but in a vacuum once the ball leaves the vehicle while it's moving the car will move out from under the ball, of course on a planet as big as the earth and us as small as we are it's hard to directly observe with out setting up some experiments).



maybe i'm indeed missing something here, is just sounds very strange
like say a fly hovering in a room will eventually hit the wall
or an astronaut walking out of the orbiting craft will at some point drift away,
i may have to look it up more thoroughly.
(sorry for the off topic)

[Hervé]

As far as the question goes, its answer fall under the rubric of "Social Engineering," AKA "Psy-op."


The following is an article by Jon Rappoport on how psy-ops work and how they are orchestrated in social engineering schemes and which I keep referencing here and there.

So here it is in its own thread:


The disaster of manufactured consent in the Matrix (http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/03/15/the-disaster-of-manufactured-consent-in-the-matrix/)
by Jon Rappoport March 15, 2013
www.nomorefakenews.com (http://www.nomorefakenews.com/)

[...]

In the Matrix, there is pressure to have people connect their realities to each other. Why? Because groups can thus be created. Groups are easier to compromise than individuals.

We get the concept of hooked ideas. A hooked idea is one which will entice people to merge their realities into One. The hooked idea can be expressed as a slogan, a so-called meme, a principle. It is introduced by people who work psyops.

A psyop is a campaign to herd people into a place where their individual realities overlap.

For the propagandist, there is the eternal search for the good, better, and best hooking idea, the one that will collect the greatest possible number of people under one roof.

This has nothing to do with true progress or honest intent. It has everything to do with control.

[...]

This same retired propaganda operative, who goes by the pseudonym of Ellis Medavoy (I interview him 28 times in one section of my collection, THE MATRIX REVEALED (http://marketplace.mybigcommerce.com/the-matrix-revealed-vol-1-cd-by-jon-rappoport-mega-info/)), explained this “psyop calculation”:


“The target of a terrific psyop is yearning and longing. That’s what I looked for when I was working: what people long and yearn for. Something unformed and undefined but very powerful. That’s what I wanted to tap into.

“If I could tap into that, people would buy in and surrender a significant part of whatever their personal world looks like. Because they want to believe they’re coming together with like-minded others. They’ll also believe the path laid out for them is correct and proper and wonderful. This is really a fake religion we’re talking about.

“A fake religion. It’s really for children, and most people turn out to be children. Give them a group of high-minded ideas, and they’ll grab on and think everything they’ve done up to that moment is a prelude to THIS.

“We [operatives] are playing a symphony, you see, and once they listen to the prelude, they’re hooked. They stay. They long for the climax, which doesn’t exist; not the way they imagine it. To them it’s all about ‘arrival in the promised land,’ as if that’s some kind of gift that’s wrapped up under the tree, waiting to be opened.

“We give them a fake god, a dead-end god. If they were once burning with authentic faith, we derail that and take them to another place…” [...]

This has less and less to do with personal reality.

Manufactured consent in the Matrix is a bit of a misnomer. Manufactured consent IS the Matrix, at the most profound level.

[...]

A great deal of history of the human race, littered as it is with suffering and pain and war and hunger, was produced by competing psyops.

Each side was utterly convinced that its ideals were superior. What neither side realized was that everybody, on all sides, was accepting a psyop substitute of their own personal reality. That was the big switch.

[...]

You could accurately write, on many gravestones: “I died for a psyop.”

[...]

Freedom? Democracy? The will of the people? A better future for all? Equality? Justice? These are merely concepts in search of ways to run psyops.

Jon Rappoport

[emphases mine]

The "yearning": TRUTH!

The "hook": You have been lied to and NASA lies all the time...

The logical fallacy: Therefore NASA's round earth cannot be true...

The new religion: Earth is flat! ... and that's the whole truth!

Why? To check if it works!

[TargeT]

maybe i'm indeed missing something here, is just sounds very strange
like say a fly hovering in a room will eventually hit the wall
or an astronaut walking out of the orbiting craft will at some point drift away,
i may have to look it up more thoroughly.
(sorry for the off topic)

The earth isn't stationary, it's spinning on its axis, orbiting the sun, and following the sun as it travels through space (lots of forces here), constantly moving around 66,500 MPH depending on if it's high noon or not, if it's after noon you are decelerating at 1,000 mph from 66,500mph until you hit "midnight" (or when ever the sun is on the opposite side of hte planet) then you accelerating at 1,000 mph to 66,500 mph again at "noon" (due to the earths spin). Now depending on the time of the year we are moving at different speeds as well, collectively (relative to the milky way) we are moving at around 1.2 million mph.

so anyway, all of that is to say that the earth is hauling ass, and if you leave contact with it it you will be left behind depending on how long you are disconnected from the earth, and on how far you travel... this is why during long range shooting a bullet has a measurable Coriolis effect; because it travels so far it exacerbates the above situation (1000mph spin of the earth).

Inertia makes this very hard to observe (and our relatively tiny size compared to the planet) that's why you only see 2-3 inches of difference at 1000m when long range shooting.

there's so much going on that it's a bit hard to wrap your head around,, angular momentum, projectile velocity, inertia, acceleration, air drag, gravitational acceleration etc... but once you get a handle on a few of those topics it makes a lot of sense (on a planet that's a globe).




Why? To check if it works!

This is my theory as well.

[regnak]

This topic never dies :shielddeflect:

I believe NASA is lying but the earth is not flat

[araucaria]

Do take the time and trouble to think for yourself.
This is something I heartily agree with. It is the only way to build up a coherent picture with elements clicking into place as opposed to adding to the pile of loose ends. One’s individual input is part of the process of understanding. For how this works, see this post:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89292-Robert-Graves-and-Archaeolmythology&p=1052987&viewfull=1#post1052987


Like "Well, if you're saying this, then the opposite must be true." Things just don't work that way.
This is likely derived from the Satanic reversal thing. Satanists, as we know, do everything back to front. Having taken the time and trouble to think about this, I believe it has something to do with the Sun being on an elliptical orbit. To understand that elliptical thought, see this post:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88839-Nibiru-Will-Pass-Earth-Before-November-2017-The-Evidence-w-Investigator-David-Meade&p=1053507&viewfull=1#post1053507

My conclusion is that on the subject of Planet X, for once at least, the exact opposite of the accepted story must be true. But of course, for once at least, most people are forgetting to apply the reversal rule. It is not axiomatic, yet it is sometimes applicable; to find out when it does apply is not a matter of reflex but of reflection.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Well, this interesting question has inspired me to put on the Devil's boots (they hurt! :bigsmile: ) and imagine what I'd be doing if I was was the CIA Director of Special Counter Alternative Media Operations.

* That's a made-up title: but I'd bet $10,000 that something like that exists. My suggestion spells SCAMO. :)

So this would be my program... all in parallel, not in any sequence:



Install high-ability agents in influential roles. Just a handful, maybe a dozen or so, would be enough. Radio shows, prominent blogs, YouTube channels, etc.



Install a LOT of shills and trolls to patrol forums, comments on blogs, YouTube, and so on. 1,000 would be more than plenty. The annual budget for that would only be about $50m. That's peanuts.



Inject a number of memes (alluring ideas/concepts) into the community that would
— confuse people
— create conflict.



That can easily be done through a combination of the high-profile assets, the shill supporters (remember, shills and trolls can act POSITIVELY, too, to support certain agendas), and a few well-made YouTube videos that are pushed to prominence.



There would be another division, used more sparingly, to take hard action against anyone who was hard to control. They would be
— publicly embarrassed (and/or maybe blackmailed)
— financially compromised or weakened
— set up to be 'illegal' or to have broken the law in some way
— ridiculed and/or smeared
— or, in some cases, made chronically ill or eliminated.



Finally, there would be a third division, equally specialized, to use targeted mind control technology against susceptible targets. Partial influencing would be fine: a mind controlled individual isn't necessarily a zombie or an automaton. They're just 'leaned on' in certain ways — using emotion or injected illogic — so that their behavior or attitude changes in just the optimum strategic ways.



All the above would be well-monitored with low-key but sharp and accurate personal surveillance of every kind, designed to provide real-time feedback to enable advanced strategic software to make decisions about how best to deploy all the resources available. (One has to think of many chess pieces on a chessboard, all working together to win the game.)


In the context of all that ^^ (!) — maybe the question posted in the thread can find an obvious answer.

:)

[aviators]

Thanks for your answer, mysterious encounter indeed.

And yes I've noticed information is hard to find here.

My question is where this phenomenon comes from and why it has gained such momentum without actually discussing its validity.

Hopefully there will be room to discuss that specific part of the subject.

Like Trump, you can hate him, you can love him. But his movement and impact on itself are enough food for debate and can also be discussed without engaging in an anti or pro contest.

These men have had the biggest impact on the movements momentum.
I already mentioned Matt Boylan. Eric Dubay and Mark Sargent are two
other key players. They are intelligent and articulate
.
Is this a psyop ? I'm not sure yet? perhaps?
However they raise some good questions and make it interesting.

I'm not posting random videos here to muddy the waters.
This is not to be taken as nefarious or irrelevant .
These videos have been picked because they bring a better
understanding to the main point of this topic and display character.
Hopfullly this post will shine some light on the OP main question.
Below are good examples of Eric and Marks message.

Sorry if these dont interest you or are disturbing in any way.

Mark Sargent
T8-YdgU-CF4


Eric Dubay
R77j9rUuky4

[Bill Ryan]

These men have had the biggest impact on the movements momentium.
I already mentioned Matt Boyland. Eric Dubay and Mark Sargent are two
other key players. They are intelligent and articulate.


Exactly the kind of people the Director of SCAMO (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular&p=1053520&viewfull=1#post1053520) would utilize!

Smart enough to sound plausible to those who aren't able to evaluate the information for themselves.

Please, stick to the topic. This is NOT a thread to promote Flat-Earth-ism. It asks the question why people (like you — and that is not intended to be a targeted poke, just an accurate statement) are falling for this.

And saying "it makes sense" is not an answer. :)

[TargeT]

It took me a good 4+ hours to review the FE stuff then go checking for counters to it & come to my decision.

I have the luxury of a job that allows me time to research while I work. (well... "allows" might be a strong word...)

How many other people stuck in the rat race can do the same? I come home after 8-10 hours away and don't want to do anything but relax and "decompress".... I don't have the energy even to pursue my hobbies as fully as I'd like.

I imagine my life is not so much different from that of many others, and probably even easier than many... and this isn't just America, the "40 hour work week" has been a standard since the industrial revolution.

Mental energy is a finite resource & it's pretty tapped out in the average debt-slave; and if you use what little mental energy you have left on some BS like FE you will most likely not be venturing into some serious research again soon... the other option is just to swallow it as delivered and do no personal fact checking, so either way it's mostly a "win win" for TPTB. (IMO)



Exactly the kind of people the Director of SCAMO (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular&p=1053520&viewfull=1#post1053520) would utilize!

Smart enough to sound plausible to those who aren't WILLING to evaluate the information for themselves.



FIXED!

[Limor Wolf]

This topic never dies :shielddeflect:


If patience is a virtue, our Avalon founder is virtuoso ~

[uzn]

Well, if your out in the ocean and a sailship is approaching something strange is happening. At the horizon first you see the flag coming over the horizon, a little later while it is getting closer you can see the sails but not the bottom of the ship. First when it gets even closer you can see all of the ship. So flatearthers, go figure this one out ;)
Same for mountains in the distance, the further away they are the smaller they get, in comparing the hight to the horizon. Last not least if you watch clouds from a high vantagepoint they always have a dome-feel to them, and clouds that are further away sink down and disappear beneth the horizon.

anyway i thing all that flatearth stuff is a misunderstanding. Out Solarsystem is on a flat (slightly tilted) surface. Meaning all planets move on a flat disc. The old ones knew this.

[DeDukshyn]

Well, if your out in the ocean and a sailship is approaching something strange is happening. At the horizon first you see the flag coming over the horizon, a little later while it is getting closer you can see the sails but not the bottom of the ship. First when it gets even closer you can see all of the ship. So flatearthers, go figure this one out ;)
Same for mountains in the distance, the further away they are the smaller they get, in comparing the hight to the horizon. Last not least if you watch clouds from a high vantagepoint they always have a dome-feel to them, and clouds that are further away sink down and disappear beneth the horizon.

anyway i thing all that flatearth stuff is a misunderstanding. Out Solarsystem is on a flat (slightly tilted) surface. Meaning all planets move on a flat disc. The old ones knew this.

Don't incite them ... I have seen countless videos where a FEer claims proof because he can see with a high power zoom lens something far away, of course assuming though that the landscape is perfectly flat without any hills. The problem is they don't study the details well enough nor understand how to calculate the difference in observations between what a flat vs sphere earth will give, let alone considerations like light refraction through the atmosphere causing a certain effect (I don't want to give away all the sphere Earth secrets ;))

Basically don't bother presenting proof / evidence - it'll get this thread quickly closed after a bunch of nonsense that will insue; if one does not have the ability to evaluate your evidence objectively, based on existing known laws, it gets absolutely nowhere ... trust me ;) If I had a dollar for the amount of times I have explained perspective, scale and sunbeams ... it doesn't work :)

[dim]

and if you leave contact with it it you will be left behind depending on how long you are disconnected from the earth, and on how far you travel...

i didn't know that, never came across this little huge detail
i thought that given no other forces an object would keep earth's velocity forever.
Thanks TargeT

[Limor Wolf]

The notion that the our Earth is flat may not be true, but the understanding that our Earth and milky way galaxy is constructed of a perfect ice cream like scoops as if were created by the best of artists... now that is a valuable food for thought (not ice cream : ), make you think about the reality we live in.. About David Icke's hypothesis of a hologram, and perheps someone over there are quite enjoying themselves (yet again!) watching the two so called 'camps' insisting with one another. Problem, reaction, solution. Both sides are invested in, but truth is possibly pretty much somewhere else.

[DeDukshyn]

The notion that the our Earth is flat may not be true, but the understanding that our Earth and milky way galaxy is constructed of a perfect ice cream like scoops as if were created by the best of artists... now that is a valuable food for thought (not ice cream : ), make you think about the reality we live in.. About David Icke's hypothesis of a hologram, and perheps someone over there are quite enjoying themselves (yet again!) watching the two so called 'camps' insisting with one another. Problem, reaction, solution. Both sides are invested in, but truth is possibly pretty much somewhere else.

Reality is a hologram of sorts, the Universe is extremely holographic. This has nothing to do with a flat earth. :) An alternative way of perceiving things from a non-physical standpoint perhaps, if the philosophy behind that ever gets ironed out. Does anyone here astral travel? How does it look out there guys?

[Frenchy]

Heyall,

It's been some years since I've been active on this forum.
Project Avalon took me so far in space it took me some years to ground back again, get my life moving and gather enough courage to go into deep space yet again :)

I miss the intellect and spirituality of this online community so much as well as energizing my personal et connection that I can only come back here like a lost son.

On topic:
Now somehow my youtube account is spamming me with "maybe you find this interesting" about Flat Earth theories.
Lately I was at a party and someone started talking to me about it.

What is up with this whole thing? Is there an operation running globally to get people to believe the Earth is flat?

So the question is not whether it's flat because you know... hah. It ain't.

But the question is WHY ? What is the purpose of this disinfo?


Thanks in advance and bless you

Greetings dear disinfo man, I have every confidence in stating that, just as you have, in proving to us, that we're on a globe !

CLEARLY, all 'extra - terrestial' flights show early 'CGI', or crude graphics,depicting a 'round' globe.

Go and look for others, you'll not find here, people inclined to accept unsubstantial claims.... The time is for awakening, and the meek, know where to find substenance ! But let me express this simply, that your followers might better understand, if when young, you're shown a photo (Drawing ) of (say) a Dodo, how can you be sure such an animal existed, and so, consider if we were told from ages past , that we 'evolved' from a slime mold, would we automatically accept this ? ( Try the Icke forum, pal ! ) and watch what you drink at those parties ! ! !

[bettye198]

I thought I was done with the FE discussion from all over the place even people I know who approach me but guess not. I will not dismiss the notion that the Earth may not be entirely round, maybe oblong but that doesn't matter to me. What matters is that everything we see with these two eyes is clouded by the illusion of the Matrix. I remember one visionary saying if you were not embroiled in the trance of this 3D world, you would see things very differently and that the planets actually line up. Huh? Well, my pineal gland is in great need for a tune up.

I do sense perception is everything and that acquires our belief system. So, for all we know, planets are square. Once outside this reality, we get a truer perception. Remember Truman movie? He was so sure of his 3 D world until he saw the wall.

[Frenchy]

Good article Bill, Haven't checked the Sterling yet, but $50K sounds right, sign me up !

[Mike Gorman]

Heyall,

It's been some years since I've been active on this forum.
Project Avalon took me so far in space it took me some years to ground back again, get my life moving and gather enough courage to go into deep space yet again :)

I miss the intellect and spirituality of this online community so much as well as energizing my personal et connection that I can only come back here like a lost son.

On topic:
Now somehow my youtube account is spamming me with "maybe you find this interesting" about Flat Earth theories.
Lately I was at a party and someone started talking to me about it.

What is up with this whole thing? Is there an operation running globally to get people to believe the Earth is flat?

So the question is not whether it's flat because you know... hah. It ain't.

But the question is WHY ? What is the purpose of this disinfo?


Thanks in advance and bless you

Personally, I think this entire push to resurrect the flat earth paradigm is to help discredit the 'alternative media and information' flowering that has arisen as a result of 'The Internet' - the exchange of genuine information and a definite challenge to the sleepy hypnosis of the mainstream 'power bloc' - call them what you will, the shadowy money lenders, the bankrolls of war, the Bilderberg underbelly, the hidden ones, the wielders of the whip... -this narrative has been seriously challenged in recent times-David Icke, Alex Jones, Project Camelot, numerous researchers and social theorists there are many.

These have started to gain traction among the 'the mass' which seldom responds, those who are educated but 'straight' the silent majority who sleep on have been prodded, yes seriously prodded and their snores interrupted. This 'Flat Earth Psyop' has been carefully designed to discredit the alternative narrative, heading off the 'silent majority' who stirred in their sleep..'Wha..What is this?' OHHHH, it's just those internet lunies with their rubbish, they are talking about the Flat Earth fer Chrisssake!...Back to Sleep little monster...let me tickle under you chin...Yes..that's it......ZZZzzzzzzz.

[Wind]

.
Danny Wilten - Why We Must Deal With The Flat Earth Distraction

IPMjZpvdVSU
YouTube text:
Yes, it is a distraction, but we must deal with it to maintain truth health. Just like a virus, if you do not deal with it, it will eventually get ya. The mainstream media is already using the crazy flat earther meme to describe anyone who has an alternative view of mainstream science. You might also notice this is a PSYOP because if the title of your video contains the key words FLAT EARTH, they will flock to your video.

[Mike Gorman]

Yep...we can ascend to the truth without being totally absurd though.

[Wide-Eyed]

.
Well, this interesting question has inspired me to put on the Devil's boots (they hurt! :bigsmile: ) and imagine what I'd be doing if I was was the CIA Director of Special Counter Alternative Media Operations.

* That's a made-up title: but I'd bet $10,000 that something like that exists. My suggestion spells SCAMO. :)

So this would be my program... all in parallel, not in any sequence:



Install high-ability agents in influential roles. Just a handful, maybe a dozen or so, would be enough. Radio shows, prominent blogs, YouTube channels, etc.



Install a LOT of shills and trolls to patrol forums, comments on blogs, YouTube, and so on. 1,000 would be more than plenty. The annual budget for that would only be about $50m. That's peanuts.



Inject a number of memes (alluring ideas/concepts) into the community that would
— confuse people
— create conflict.



That can easily be done through a combination of the high-profile assets, the shill supporters (remember, shills and trolls can act POSITIVELY, too, to support certain agendas), and a few well-made YouTube videos that are pushed to prominence.



There would be another division, used more sparingly, to take hard action against anyone who was hard to control. They would be
— publicly embarrassed (and/or maybe blackmailed)
— financially compromised or weakened
— set up to be 'illegal' or to have broken the law in some way
— ridiculed and/or smeared
— or, in some cases, made chronically ill or eliminated.



Finally, there would be a third division, equally specialized, to use targeted mind control technology against susceptible targets. Partial influencing would be fine: a mind controlled individual isn't necessarily a zombie or an automaton. They're just 'leaned on' in certain ways — using emotion or injected illogic — so that their behavior or attitude changes in just the optimum strategic ways.



All the above would be well-monitored with low-key but sharp and accurate personal surveillance of every kind, designed to provide real-time feedback to enable advanced strategic software to make decisions about how best to deploy all the resources available. (One has to think of many chess pieces on a chessboard, all working together to win the game.)


In the context of all that ^^ (!) — maybe the question posted in the thread can find an obvious answer.

:)

Bill - I have been to Las Vegas more times that I care to mention and probably spent less than $500 gambling but I would wager $10,000 in fiat along with Frenchy's sterling that SCAMO is in effect employed. Along with Jon Rappaport's discussion with his PSYOP pro, Ellis Medavoy, describing their modus operendi employed - this was outlined TODAY, on Good Morning America. Yes- I regrettably and coincidentally caught a piece this morning that aired describing some fashion of psyop. Not a regular mainstream TV watcher but my 84 yr old father is and it was a quite piece if one was "viewing between the programming " the piece was about the FCC suing or bringing charges of a sort against LORD & TAYLOR department store for "manufacturing consent" of sorts with social media. LORD & TAYLOR creates false social media "blitzes" with parties or agents that appear to be just good ol' american consumers but they happen to be wearing dresses or items that L&T markets and sells. The store whips up these social media frenzies actually directs them but the asleep or unknowing social media fans eat it up. L& T is creating campaigns that within moments of launch of tweets, Instagrams or FaceBook postings have hundreds of thousands of hits. The social media users just think it's something 'cool' that is going viral created by Suzy next store when it is actually big data or AI type of marketing subliminal directed by LORD & Taylor. Very large numbers of unsuspecting consumers whipped up and controlled digitally, coerced if you will, to think act and consume....all from 'Suzy next doors' hip post that blew up and went viral. OMG I have to get that dress! It's sooo fab didn't you see it with "Suzy next doors" post that went viral OMG! It's so cool everyone is posting about it...

[Bill Ryan]

bringing charges of a sort against LORD & TAYLOR department store for "manufacturing consent" of sorts with social media. LORD & TAYLOR creates false social media "blitzes" with parties or agents that appear to be just good ol' american consumers but they happen to be wearing dresses or items that L&T markets and sells.

Exactly. If a fairly small department store can do that, think what the CIA can do — with an almost unlimited budget, and totally unlimited access to YouTube and the rest of the internet. :)

[TargeT]

Basically don't bother presenting proof / evidence - it'll get this thread quickly closed after a bunch of nonsense that will insue; if one does not have the ability to evaluate your evidence objectively, based on existing known laws, it gets absolutely nowhere ... trust me ;) If I had a dollar for the amount of times I have explained perspective, scale and sunbeams ... it doesn't work :)

That's why the Coriolis effect is such a good shut down,,, there's NO WAY you can explain that away with any FE theory... that's the "holy grail" of counter arguments from my findings.



I do sense perception is everything and that acquires our belief system.

I rather think our belief system shapes our perspective, if you understand the concept of "confirmation bias" you'll know this to be true as well.





bringing charges of a sort against LORD & TAYLOR department store for "manufacturing consent" of sorts with social media. LORD & TAYLOR creates false social media "blitzes" with parties or agents that appear to be just good ol' american consumers but they happen to be wearing dresses or items that L&T markets and sells.

Exactly. If a fairly small department store can do that, think what the CIA can do — with an almost unlimited budget, and totally unlimited access to YouTube and the rest of the internet. :)

why think? just look at their crowning achievement: facebook....

And I have... O M F G it's insane what people willingly give up on that site... as a person that has never had a facebook account and almost never goes there; plus being a cyber security expert (we train in social engineering, it's the most powerful "hack" out there) I see a honeypot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)) of EPIC proportions.

[SilentFeathers]

Heyall,

It's been some years since I've been active on this forum.
Project Avalon took me so far in space it took me some years to ground back again, get my life moving and gather enough courage to go into deep space yet again :)

I miss the intellect and spirituality of this online community so much as well as energizing my personal et connection that I can only come back here like a lost son.

On topic:
Now somehow my youtube account is spamming me with "maybe you find this interesting" about Flat Earth theories.
Lately I was at a party and someone started talking to me about it.

What is up with this whole thing? Is there an operation running globally to get people to believe the Earth is flat?

So the question is not whether it's flat because you know... hah. It ain't.

But the question is WHY ? What is the purpose of this disinfo?


Thanks in advance and bless you

After many years of slowly brainwashing, poisoning, and dumbing down the masses, what better way to study the effects of the grand dumbing down experiment other than trying to tell the one's that can still think for themselves that the earth is really flat?????? Goes to prove that many free thinkers and rather intelligent people can still be easily manipulated and duped in to anything.

[Bill Ryan]

After many years of slowly brainwashing, poisoning, and dumbing down the masses, what better way to study the effects of the grand dumbing down experiment other than trying to tell the one's that can still think for themselves that the earth is really flat?????? Goes to prove that many free thinkers and rather intelligent people can still be easily manipulated and duped in to anything.

Yes, that's a good point. The entire program could have multiple goals. :thumbsup:

(Actually, the theory I really like is that maybe one CIA section chief bet another CIA section chief $100 that he could make it work. :bigsmile: )

[TargeT]

After many years of slowly brainwashing, poisoning, and dumbing down the masses, what better way to study the effects of the grand dumbing down experiment other than trying to tell the one's that can still think for themselves that the earth is really flat?????? Goes to prove that many free thinkers and rather intelligent people can still be easily manipulated and duped in to anything.

Yes, that's a good point. The entire program could have multiple goals. :thumbsup:

(Actually, the theory I really like is that maybe one CIA section chief bet another CIA section chief $100 that he could make it work. :bigsmile: )

Well I certainly agree

IMO, FE is a purposefully introduced disinformation campaign to see how gullible/leadable/trickable humans are currently... it was a psychological test to see our current level of "trickability)

But I think we are winning, the FE crap flared up and died almost as fast (it's basically put down now) same with the Encryption BS... Hell it's almost enough to restore a bit of my faith in humanity.... in fact.

these things, the current events.... I'm feeling a bit positive right now; "we" collectively aren't really falling for the same super easy BS... it takes a master "negotiator" (aka manipulator) like Trump to stir up any interest in politics, we aren't rolliing over and letting the NSA take advantage like we used to... over all I'd give "us" a C+

[SilentFeathers]

After many years of slowly brainwashing, poisoning, and dumbing down the masses, what better way to study the effects of the grand dumbing down experiment other than trying to tell the one's that can still think for themselves that the earth is really flat?????? Goes to prove that many free thinkers and rather intelligent people can still be easily manipulated and duped in to anything.

Yes, that's a good point. The entire program could have multiple goals. :thumbsup:

(Actually, the theory I really like is that maybe one CIA section chief bet another CIA section chief $100 that he could make it work. :bigsmile: )

I'm figuring the CIA section chief refused to take the bet because they both actually knew it would work....

ADDED: not enough people bought in to though, so back to the drawing board and adding a few new strands in GMO's I'm sure is on the schedule...

[Innocent Warrior]

But the question is WHY ? What is the purpose of this disinfo?

To create unfavourable/demeaning/unintelligent ideas to be associated with the truther community, conspiracy theorists in particular. Think about it, when you think of truthers, what does your mind immediately associate that term with? For me it's 9/11 truthers. Well, it is FAR more helpful to the cabals for people to be associating the FE conspiracy with truthers and conspiracy theorists, for obvious reasons. Associations of ideas with terms is incredibly fast acting, efficient and powerful on the mind, if it cost them 50 million dollars it would be a bargain.

[Hervé]

Along the line of letters agencies and big money being involved, I almost fell off my couch one day when watching some Canadian TV program where the "Flat Earth Society" was running an ad campaign with powerful imagery... that was 4-5 years ago... they have been at it for a long while now...

[Hym]

All accurate points, my friends, especially Bill's foray into the mind of an analyst, very close, very close to the methods used. As an artist and primarily a sculptor I also see another added viewpoint to the discussion.

A little deeper than the obvious is the perception and measuring of the effectiveness of transhumanism in this little psy-op:

The Flat Earth meme measures the effectiveness of de-humanizing, of removing, of obfuscating the depth of perceptions within the masses, since it has been a long journey adapting humans to 2-D modeling and guiding them into accepting the 2-D image as a larger part of a perceived reality.

The 2-D model is the t.v. screen, the computer, the piece of paper, the cell phone screen, looking at a mirror, etc. and it concludes with the programmers of language calling a visual screen placed over the eyes a "virtual reality", another reality, an "almost" reality. Many decades of conditioning are here for us to see. However, a human sees with much more than the eyes.....

It is no wonder they took a flat canvas artist, whose entire professional life has been centered on creating the illusion of a 3-D world upon a 2-D canvas, to either be a shill or someone so enamoured of his own ego-laden and highly advanced skill (as he boasts, from the age of 3) to make the total mental leap into the illusion itself. (I could see a more advanced version of Jessica Rabbit popping up into his daydreams, what with the depth of his apparent delusions.)

This would be hard to do with a sculptor who deals with 3-D all of the time, especially when some of us use materials like clay, where there is such a depth of interaction, often multi-dimensional at that, that necessitates layers of response within and without the medium itself.

It would be wise when we spend so much time in 2-D activities to balance ourselves with the 3-D activities that naturally prompt even deeper experiences and interactions. Especially when those times are spent touching the earth and these living and giving intermediaries we call plants. These things we do within nature are the antithesis of living in a flat world. They are transcendent even when we are unaware of the vibrant interactions taking place in our exchanges.

Step back and consider the real world impact of how pervasive the acceptance of all of those 2-D images are and then guess why, now, programmers would like to get a measure of how effective their efforts have been.
As usual, their are many agendas wrapped up in most every single deception. This is just one measure of how they think, but it goes to the depth of their studies on the science of perception and how manipulative the agendas are.

[Zanshin]

Although this post doesn't address the question posed by the OP, perhaps this link would be a place to
start for all those flat-earthers who, as Bill suggests, appear completely incapable of rational application
of scientific method when forming their personal thesis re: the physical nature of their reality.

Nassim's unique 'layman's terms' approach to breaking down the holo-fractal nature of this reality should be
easy enough for anyone capable of discernment and critical thought to follow, regardless of their level
(or lack of) ability to apply basic principles of logic and reason and rely instead on others to spoon feed
them.
This could be right up there with the Coriolis effect TargeT :) - although the length of the presentation may
be daunting for some.

When I first saw this lecture I watched entranced from start to finish.

Took a punt that it had been uploaded to youtube and there it was - the number of views would suggest
though, that precious few flat-earthers have caught it - as yet.

Nassim presents his hypothesis of the fractal nature of reality from infinitely small to infinitely large spheres
-then he proceeds to examine the internal support structure for any sphere, including the use of gradually
more complex models, arriving finally at the dodecahedron (not sure if it's spelt that way).

He then demonstrates the symbology that permeates historical records showing clearly that this knowledge was
held by the ancients and recorded in stone for posterity.
= And he does it all in a beautifully humorous way. :)

Part 1 of 4 with the other 3 following in the youtube manner


3EorbfotdiA


Hope this doesn't just encourage them as suggested by other posters -
sorry, just couldn't resist :)

[TargeT]

completely incapable of rational application
of scientific method

I found it quite funny that you wrote those words and then mentioned N. Haramein; quite a few threads on him here.

I watched a lot of his stuff, he's pretty charismatic; but he makes some H U G E leaps and doesn't really follow the established empirical evidence route (scientific method).

so, maybe not the best example.

[Ernie Nemeth]

But I think we are winning, the FE crap flared up and died almost as fast (it's basically put down now) same with the Encryption BS... Hell it's almost enough to restore a bit of my faith in humanity.... in fact.

By FE I figure you mean the Keshe fiasco? Not the whole genre I hope.
Wade would have a meltdown.

[TargeT]

But I think we are winning, the FE crap flared up and died almost as fast (it's basically put down now) same with the Encryption BS... Hell it's almost enough to restore a bit of my faith in humanity.... in fact.

By FE I figure you mean the Keshe fiasco? Not the whole genre I hope.
Wade would have a meltdown.

I meant FE as in Flat Earth... haha... I lump Keshe right in there with the Flat Earth theory... he's still pulling around 200k (some as high as 700k, but those are the clickbait titled ones) views on his videos on Youtube so he's definitely still sucking peoples energy... but only a small amount; looking at google trends he's basically a nobody: https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Keshe%2C%20Free%20energy&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4


I'm ok with a small amount of people being tricked by Keshe, as energy (electricity) is a highly misunderstood phenomenon....

But Flat Earth? That lost momentum fast & is a subject I would expect the "average joe" to be able to grasp... & from what I've seen "average Joe" has weighed the topic and found it wanting...


This is based on youtube analysis... the highest viewed videos are refuting FE.. hell if you just search Flat Earth & sort by view count most the videos on the first few pages are refuting FE..... so the zietgiest currently supports the globe model over the flat model. (social media is a great way to see what the "average joe" is thinking..... and I'm not even in the CIA with all the facebook back doors at my fingertips!)........ In google Trends FE spiked in January and is rapidly heading to no-one-cares land: https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Flat%20Earth&date=1%2F2012%2051m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

[DeDukshyn]

Basically don't bother presenting proof / evidence - it'll get this thread quickly closed after a bunch of nonsense that will insue; if one does not have the ability to evaluate your evidence objectively, based on existing known laws, it gets absolutely nowhere ... trust me ;) If I had a dollar for the amount of times I have explained perspective, scale and sunbeams ... it doesn't work :)

That's why the Coriolis effect is such a good shut down,,, there's NO WAY you can explain that away with any FE theory... that's the "holy grail" of counter arguments from my findings.


You would think ...if one is able to properly understand the coriolis effect properly. Unfortunately the coriolis effect has been erroneously attributed to things like toilet flush direction, and curve compensation considerations by snipers for long range shots (which is actually most likely compensation for bullet spin - not coriolis), so often one has to first debunk the false associations with coriolis and then explain it properly. FEers have shown me water turning down a drain saying, "see! its backwards! coriolis is just another lie they tell us to support the sphere earth lie." ... Too much patience needed sometimes ... :)

More info on coriolis effect for those curious ... http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85008-Why-do-hurricanes-always-spin-in-one-direction-only

[TargeT]

Unfortunately the coriolis effect has been erroneously attributed to things like toilet flush direction,

Toilets: no... too small, too hard to measure... WATER DRAINING? Y E S!!! Weather patterns... .YES! Hurricanes spin different directions depending on the northern or southern hemisphere.

Northern:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDorTBEhEtk

Southern:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihv4f7VMeJw&feature=youtu.be[/QUOTE]



curve compensation considerations by snipers for long range shots (which is actually most likely compensation for bullet spin - not coriolis),


I'm a long range shooter (not much choice... military) and this is a very very real thing.

jX7dcl_ERNs






FEers have shown me water turning down a drain saying, "see! its backwards! coriolis is just another lie they tell us to support the sphere earth lie." ... Too much patience needed sometimes ... :)




but water draining is effected, just not small bodies of water.

[uzn]

To let this thread end with pictures of toilets is pretty fitting :thumbsup:

[DeDukshyn]

Unfortunately the coriolis effect has been erroneously attributed to things like toilet flush direction,

Toilets: no... too small, too hard to measure... WATER DRAINING? Y E S!!! Weather patterns... .YES! Hurricanes spin different directions depending on the northern or southern hemisphere.

Northern:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDorTBEhEtk

Southern:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihv4f7VMeJw&feature=youtu.be



curve compensation considerations by snipers for long range shots (which is actually most likely compensation for bullet spin - not coriolis),


I'm a long range shooter (not much choice... military) and this is a very very real thing.

jX7dcl_ERNs






FEers have shown me water turning down a drain saying, "see! its backwards! coriolis is just another lie they tell us to support the sphere earth lie." ... Too much patience needed sometimes ... :)




but water draining is effected, just not small bodies of water.

Not water draining. No drain big enough (if you had a giant drain many miles acroww, then maybe yes). In order for the coriolis effect to come into play, the system has to be large enough to produce a differential in speed between the north and south side of the system - as a result of the sphere spinning ; the side closest to the equator is moving faster than northern side (in case of hurricane), due to the fact that it is further from the sphere's rotation of axis. Without this differential in speed there is no coriolis effect. A system has to be at least many miles wide for there to be a significant enough difference in speed between the two sides of the system. No drain is a hundred miles wide. Check the link I posted and watch the video again. The way the effect is actually produced eliminates the possibility of this occurring (from a sphere earth) on any small or even medium scale. Of course I am talking where the coriolis effect creates a consistent output (for example, tropical storms moving either north or south), not where the force might exist in theory.

Trust me, I studied this a lot :) Nothing small scale can be attributed to a sphere-earth induced coriolis effect. If there is any strange phenenon that seems related - its not coriolis but perhaps something else.

UPDATE:
You're going to get stumped when a FEer shows you a video of a drain or toilette turning the "wrong way" and says ... "see, coriolis is just a lie created to support the sphere earth lie!" -- you have to understand more clearly the exact mechanism that causes it. If you understand coriolis properly, it is impossible to consider any small scale system being influenced by it because it is illogical.

Look here:
i2mec3vgeaI

Read this:
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.html

And this:
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadFAQ/BadCoriolisFAQ.html

And now watch a FEer use these erroneous attributions to "prove" that the Coriolis effect is just a lie to support the sphere earth lie.
phj7RUP9oyY


Stop giving them ammo, understand it properly so it can be explained properly. :)

And finally, do note that the coriolis effect would still occur with a flat earth - if it was a spinning disk. The only difference would be that all the large storms in the world would only spin one direction. It is the fact that northern and southern tropical storms spin in opposite directions that proves the earth is a sphere - and not the fact that they spin with consistency.

[edina]

I was surprised to discover that the acronym of FE now means Flat Earth to people, instead of Free Energy.

To me FE still means Free Energy. :)

Translated to mean, "Where are all the much more intelligent energy systems that so many people patented?"
And how does CERN generate all those almost astronomical amounts of voltage, sort of energy? FE

Is FE(Flat Earth) now taking up more digital real estate than FE (Free Energy)?

Just wondering?

[DeDukshyn]

I was surprised to discover that the acronym of FE now means Flat Earth to people, instead of Free Energy.

To me FE still means Free Energy. :)

Translated to mean, "Where are all the much more intelligent energy systems that so many people patented?"
And how does CERN generate all those almost astronomical amounts of voltage, sort of energy? FE

Is FE(Flat Earth) now taking up more digital real estate than FE (Free Energy)?

Just wondering?

I always interpret acronyms based around context, so no worry for me :)

[TargeT]

Not water draining. No drain big enough (if you had a giant drain many miles acroww, then maybe yes)....

in the two very short videos you didn't watch (they show toliets on the thumb nail, but never use the as they are far too small to observe the effect) they use kiddie pools to successfully demonstrate the coriolis effect... I didn't post them for fun, but since you have your mind made up I guess I might as well have eh?




Stop giving them ammo, understand it properly so it can be explained properly. :)

Just because you didn't pay attention and do nothing more than glance and post doesn't mean I explained it inaccurately.

In fact my explaination not only was more detailed and broader but also showed proof via experiment, both for shooting and for water draining (weather systems were also mentioned)

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/bf/bf2bd026e3c895d5a265046006567fcf638fe527dfde5fd68dc366480dbb632f.jpg
If you wana have a physics off I'm game,..... Too bad I don't have my parachute pants and vest on 'cuz YOU JUST GOT SERVED Y0!





Is FE(Flat Earth) now taking up more digital real estate than FE (Free Energy)?

Just wondering?

Since so many people use google, it's a pretty good place to check and see what people are intersted in..

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Free%20energy%2C%20flat%20earth&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

according to google trends FE has kept steady interested while FE just recently spiked and went away.... (haha) first is free energy, second flat earth

so the FlatEarth Psyop clearly failed from the above evidence.

[DeDukshyn]

Target, a toilet is a drain ...

I suppose I might have to put together a proper instructional video to explain the coriolis effect :). Trust me, most people - even the people explaining it, do not understand it correctly. When it is understood correctly, one can instantly see the probability of whether something is being effected by the coriolis effect, or not. The guy in the sniper video is completely 100% wrong. I'm not saying a bullet doesn't curve - I am saying because the coriolis effect is is so broadly misunderstood, his explanation isn't even actually describing coriolis at all.

At a distance of even 10 miles - a "system"'s influence by the coriolis effect from a sphere earth could be completely offset or amplified by a few degrees in landscape elevation up or down. Do bullets even fly 10 miles? is inclination something snipers consider when compensating for the coriolis effect?

Physics-off game commencing ... :) (which might just be a "correct understanding of terminology" game in the end :))

I'll see if I can't throw together a video in 3D and annotate the concept behind the math (I'm not good at math but a few basic formulas can get the point across). Once you understand the general math behind it, then you really understand what the term "coriolis effect" really means. In defense of almost everyone, the concept is hard to explain properly.

[ThePythonicCow]

I too spent time on this topic...

here's one thing that the Flat earth falls.... Flat on..

I'm a long range shooter (not much choice... military) and this is a very very real thing.

jX7dcl_ERNs
So ... there is an effect that long range shooters, such as TargeT or Jeremy Winters at Gunwerks in that video, notice. Shooting west the earth at the target rises up from the sighted line, causing low shots, and the reverse shooting east (your target will fall away from the sight line.)

Apparently however, that effect is not what's properly called the Coriolis effect, which is DeDukshyn's point, in my view.

The long range shooter effect, if shooting at the equator, would be largest shooting east versus west, and (I'm guessing - Target might correct me) almost non-existent shooting north versus south.

However the Coriolis effect is non-existent for a swirling air mass (storm) at the equator, and largest when the storm extends over a swath of intermediate latitudes, such that the edge of the storm closest to the equator is moving around the earth's center significantly faster than the edge of the storm closest to one or the other poles.

Summary: shooters do see an east versus west difference - but the Coriolis effect is something else.

[Elandiel BernElve]

Please, stick to the topic. This is NOT a thread to promote Flat-Earth-ism. It asks the question why people (like you — and that is not intended to be a targeted poke, just an accurate statement) are falling for this.

And saying "it makes sense" is not an answer. :)


Exactly!

@ Aviators

I've been catching up with the thread now and I must admit your responses to this thread have been a lot of pro flat earth videos without diving deeper into this phenomenon.
Shouldn't you ask yourself the same question?

Doubting my belief systems and using my brains for critical thinking is what ultimately freed my mind from religion, society etc.

It doesn't matter what you decide to believe or not.
A dogmatic stance will not help you in understanding what your own fundamental beliefs' roots are.

No offense ofcourse ,

To me it's already clear. I quote: "Case closed"
Remember... divide and conquer

I almost wished I didn't start this thread now :)

For those tired of the Flat Earth syndrome I apologize for having it brought up.
Already I'm starting to get tired of it as well.

For me as initiator I need no more convincing or viewponts, the overall picture seems clear.

But I asked a genuine question to see if Avalon would share my assumption of it being a psyop or just a mass hysterical reaction.

Thanks for your replies!

Bless

[TargeT]

Target, a toilet is a drain ...
I am saying because the coriolis effect is is so broadly misunderstood, his explanation isn't even actually describing coriolis at all.

well he was only shooting at 1000 meters, and if you look at the video you can't really see any horizontal correlation, so yeah.. pretty wrong, but still proves we are on a globe (which was the point).


At a distance of even 10 miles - a "system"'s influence by the coriolis effect from a sphere earth could be completely offset or amplified by a few degrees in landscape elevation up or down. Do bullets even fly 10 miles? is inclination something snipers consider when compensating for the coriolis effect?

Usually just over a mile at best... and it's definately in play at that point.... the better example would be Artillery.. some Artillery shells go 75 miles in a shot...

the "Paris gun" (germany was shelling paris from their own boarders)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun#/media/File:Parisgesch1.JPG


Physics-off game commencing ... :) (which might just be a "correct understanding of terminology" game in the end :))
.

it usually is, but hell you gotta make it entertaining somehow right? I start talking physics to most people and their eyes roll back in their heads




Summary: shooters do see an east versus west difference - but the Coriolis effect is something else.


In physics, the Coriolis force is an inertial force (also called a fictitious force) that acts on objects that are in motion relative to a rotating reference frame. In a reference frame with clockwise rotation, the force acts to the left of the motion of the object.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force

Seems to me that a bullet moving relative to a rotating reference frame not only counts but fits the definition exactly?


Ok, so this topic IS deeper but none of you are shooters so I figured just saying "coriolis" would work as far as FE goes, in reality if I explain it more (and probably lose people) it will prove MORE that the earth is a globe... the phenomenon that actually affects the vertical component of the trajectory is called Eötvös Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6s_effect); the rotation of the earth generates a centrifugal force, this force acts perpendicular to the Earth rotatory axis, adding or subtracting to the "gravity" (ethereal "wind" force?) force. When an object flies eastward, in the same direction of Earth’s rotation, centrifugal force acts opposite of gravity, pushing it away from the Earth’s surface. If the object flies westward, in the opposite direction of the Earth rotation, centrifugal force pushes the object toward the ground concurrently to gravity force. Thus, bullets fired to the east always fly a little higher, and, conversely, bullets fired to the west always travel somewhat low.

Most affected by Coriolis Effect is the horizontal component of the bullet trajectory. Because of the Coriolis effect, every moving object not connected to the ground is always deflected to right in the Northern Hemisphere, and always toward left in the Southern Hemisphere. The deflection is not east or west, but specifically to the right or left with reference to the shooting direction. It doesn’t matter in which direction you shoot; it is a function of latitude and average bullet speed. Its effect is maximum at the poles, and decreases as one moves toward the Equator, where its basically nonexistent. The explanation of this phenomenon is more difficult than the explanation of Eötvös Effect....

These errors are subtle, even when shooting long distance.

However, especially when combined with other potential error factors in a long distance shooting equation, it could make the difference between hitting and missing the target. If you have portable ballistic software, you can use it to calculate Coriolis for you at every distance. But, if you’re doing the math on your own, I wouldn’t start to take Coriolis into consideration unless shooting at 1,000 meters+.

We can apply the same type of corrections to mortar & artillery fire as they are much more effected.


Who wants to step up to the physics dance competition next?!

I'm just gettin warmed up!

[ThePythonicCow]

Well ... I'll bow out of this dance :).

[TargeT]

Well ... I'll bow out of this dance :).

can't have a competition with out competitors :(

physics discussions seem so much more productive than flat earth discussions.

[Bill Ryan]

Well ... I'll bow out of this dance :).

can't have a competition with out competitors :(

physics discussions seem so much more productive than flat earth discussions.

Yes. :)

I'm bowing out of the Coriolis dance as well, though... although I find it really interesting, I'm not 100% sure of my ground, and don't have the time just this moment to do the reading. I do know we have some good Applied Mathematicians on the forum... maybe they can step in to clarify definitively. Angular Momentum I think is all part of the issue.

What we CAN all agree is that all these kinds of effects — and those include global weather phenomena like ocean currents and jetstream winds! — are all connected with (and caused by) a round, spinning planet. If the Earth was flat and stationary, then none of these things would move. It'd be just like a big, still, fishtank... and that, it's certainly not.

:)

[DeDukshyn]

Yup we are agreeing, just arguing the details. I'll try to have a presentation together this evening (sorry I am a busy person - don't have much spare time) that I think would help understand the scales involved that are required to produce consistent results. If it helps clarify anything .. It will be worth it. :)

Target, calculate out how long it would take a bullet to travel 1 mile, and figure out how much the earth has turned in that timeframe, and what the difference in speed of rotation would be from the bullets firing point to it's target point -- it is only this difference that dictates the strength of effect of coriolis - at one mile, the difference is so imperceptible that the bullet hitting a fly, or a slight breeze would get taken off course further than the coriolis effect.

Do me the math :) then you will see :) Or wait and I''ll figure it our later for you. Then you realize the scales needed to see coriolis effect.

[Bill Ryan]

.
Actually, there's a very good little animated video here (like 'The Coriolis Effect for Beginners'). Just 3 mins long. I think I always did understand it, after all... it's really totally simple. :bigsmile:

* I asked Paul, who lives in Dallas, to try the magic paper airplane experiment, but he said his throwing arm might not be good enough. (You'll have to see the video to understand this comment :) )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2mec3vgeaI

[DeDukshyn]

I posted that video in this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular&p=1053759&viewfull=1#post1053759) already, and once in the other thread I linked to. This video explains the point I am trying to get across ... but I think I can explain it better yet by working out some of the math involved. This video explains why such large scales are required, which is the basis for my whole argument with Target about drains and bullets.

This is probably one of the best videos on the topic.

I'm off to work, will try to get back to this thread later today.

[Akasha]

After hopping over here from the "Panel: World Pedophile...." thread, it was interesting to see Eilish de Avalon on said panel considering her more than accommodating stance to flat Earth when extolled by the likes of Santos Bonacci on her show recently. Guilt by association, or rather irrelevance by association. In other words, getting folk to dismiss a potentially incriminating, not to mention unbelievably cruel and tragic topic such as elite pedophilia/SRCA as just as fallacious as FE. Throwing the baby out with the bath water and another very tangible example of the FE psy-op serving to discredit real hot potatoes.

To be clear I don't suspect Santos or Eilish of being paid up members of "SCAMO" but they must understand how they will only serve to undermine their own hard work if they entertain and promulgate incredulous topics such as flat Earth.

[Bill Ryan]

.
In case I'm (partially rightly!) accused of going off-topic in my last post above, maybe I can help bring the thread back on course with this observation:

Those trying to promote Flat-Earth-ism ignore all totally-in-your-face global-scale phenomena like hurricanes and typhoons spinning in opposite directions depending on what hemisphere they're in. (See the above video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2mec3vgeaI) for a really simple visual.)

My strong guess is that's because they just don't understand the physics — which actually is really super-simple. So all that gets ignored. We don't even have to talk about snipers' bullets here, which are a little harder to see. :)

And as regards time zones... only a :facepalm: suffices as a comment. The International Date Line (http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/dateline.htm) is meticulously ignored, as well.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e0/59/29/e059290ffeddd76044c29abdf9b320bb.jpg

Instead, the arguments offered are spurious, betraying a real ignorance (or denial) of a whole bunch of fundamentals. aviators suggested here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1053522#post1053522) that Eric Dubay was 'articulate and intelligent'. I'd amend that to simply say 'articulate' — enough to give the impression of intelligence. Articulacy tends to create that illusion. But intelligent, he's not.

The resonance that's then created among Flat-Earth advocates is that they, too, just don't understand the basics... at all. So they see in Dubay, and others, a kind of fellow-rebel, so they move to support him. But the real commonality is the lack of understanding.

In the absence of knowledge, a belief system then slides in.

And often, all many of them can do, like many Bible fundamentalists (and I say this accurately, in my experience, and without apology, though no personal insult is intended) — is quote 'scripture' without real understanding.

In the many Avalon threads that there have been (and many discussions elsewhere, too!), attempts to apply logic and reason (like citing Eratosthenes' clever experiment (https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene) over 2,250 years ago to measure the Earth's circumference), just don't work.

* Do read that page about Eratosthenes (https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene), by the way... it's really very interesting.

All this ^^ is then opportunistically capitalized on by the CIA and others, who utilize these weak links to inject, instill, and encourage doubt and division in the alternative community. It's as easy as shooting fish in a (non-spinning!) barrel.

[TargeT]

Target, calculate out how long it would take a bullet to travel 1 mile, and figure out how much the earth has turned in that timeframe, and what the difference in speed of rotation would be from the bullets firing point to it's target point -- it is only this difference that dictates the strength of effect of coriolis - at one mile, the difference is so imperceptible that the bullet hitting a fly, or a slight breeze would get taken off course further than the coriolis effect.

Do me the math :) then you will see :) Or wait and I''ll figure it our later for you. Then you realize the scales needed to see coriolis effect.

These aren't easy maths, we normally use an application to figure it out because it's a slope formula with the added variables of velocity, gravity, time -and over 1000+ meter shots it's even more complicated with spin and wind over distance. It's a 4 dimensional slope equation. & always parabolic...before there is drop there is rise (ballistic jump) so you have a parabolic/ballistic slope.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/traj.html

But lets see...

earth's rotation (~465m per second though it depends on where you measure.. so lets not use that, we know it spins 360* in a day everywhere)

7.62mm ammunition, ~ (1000 m/sec) (this is why I keep saying 1000 meters, easier math... haha) you can extrapolate to a mile if you want, but 1000 meters is enough.

The easiest place to calculate the effect is at either pole where the bullet will miss its target by exactly the angle that the Earth turns while the bullet is in flight(simpler maths). Your bullet is in flight for about a second, and the Earth turns 360 degrees in one day, which is about 105 seconds per degree but a better unit is radians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian), the Earth turns .00007 radians per second, so you'll miss by .00007 radians. The nice thing about a radian is you can just multiply it by the distance, 1000 m, to get the amount you'll miss by-- 1000*.00007 is about 0.1 m, or about 10 cm. That's not negligible even at just 1000m!!! Away from the pole it will be less, and it also depends on whether you are shooting north-south (the maximum side-to-side effect, zero up-down effect) or east-west (maximum up-down effect, minimal side-to-side effect) so those angles become important as well in long range shooting... I've seen guys calculate air density in as well (which makes sense I suppose, but seems overly anal).

now if we extrapolate that to a mile and move away from the pole there will still be quite a significant difference that needs to be accounted for; shooting even 10cm off center with ALL the other variables involved can easily cause a missed target.



The resonance that's then created among Flat-Earth advocates is that they, too, just don't understand the basics... at all. So they see in Dubay, and others, a kind of fellow-rebel, so they move to support him. But the real commonality is the lack of understanding.

opportunistically capitalized on by the CIA and others, who utilize these weak links to inject, instill, and encourage doubt and division in the alternative community. It's as easy as shooting fish in a (non-spinning!) barrel.

Can you blame them? I barely grasp this stuff because I felt stupid standing next to "grunts" who were doing advanced calculation so they could shoot **** at amazing distances (and I was their radio guy.. so I had nothing else todo).. so I had them explain it to me and go to try it for myself.

a non-adjusted shot at 1,500m on a 3" target is a guaranteed miss, every time. I was shown this over and over (at $5 a shot too! haha stupid .50 cal is expensive).


in society today, we have almost ZERO encouragement for people to learn science, math & physics.... I can't help but feel this is by design (oh, and when you finally DO drag your self into the relm of archaic symbols and formulas you'll find that it's all based on relativity, which is flawed.. then you're almost back to square one... haha)

[conk]

Elandial...thanx for that picture..funny i have never ran across it
Being a pilot have never believed that at least in this reality that the earth could be anything other than round.Sorry, I've not read the whole thread, let me ask this. If the Earth is rotating and a plane flies opposite the rotation for X distance, why does is the time of flight the same as flying with the rotation for the same X distance? A valid question, no? I'm not a FE advocate, but the question seems valid.

[Bill Ryan]

Elandial...thanx for that picture..funny i have never ran across it
Being a pilot have never believed that at least in this reality that the earth could be anything other than round.Sorry, I've not read the whole thread, let me ask this. If the Earth is rotating and a plane flies opposite the rotation for X distance, why does is the time of flight the same as flying with the rotation for the same X distance? A valid question, no? I'm not a FE advocate, but the question seems valid.

Because the Earth is an inertial frame of reference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_frame_of_reference).

There ARE non-inertial factors (which we've been discussing — like ocean currents, hurricanes, the jetstream and other global wind patterns, and even the Coriolis effect). But for all intents and purposes, certainly like planes flying, the atmosphere pretty much travels with the Earth.

What this means is that as the Earth spins, the atmosphere doesn't really get left behind. (Or else, with the Earth spinning at a surface speed of about 1,000 mph, we'd all be sheltering from 1,000 mph winds. :) )

[Bill Ryan]

Because the Earth is an inertial frame of reference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_frame_of_reference).



I realize that maybe I should say a tiny bit more about this... because the Wiki link I posted is a quite mathematical. :)

When you're walking from your seat to the restroom in a plane, you and the plane are both traveling at 500 mph. But for you, in the plane, it's just like going to the restroom at home. You don't notice the movement. You have no idea you're going so fast.

The plane is an inertial frame of reference. Anything inside it just moves with the plane. That's [pretty much] what the atmosphere does with the Earth.

So — you could throw a paper airplane from one end of the plane to the other. The paper airplane wouldn't somehow get 'left behind'. And it'd be as easy to throw it from the back to the front, as it would be from the front to the back.

It's the same thing with real planes flying round the Earth.

:focus:

[Eram]

Elandial...thanx for that picture..funny i have never ran across it
Being a pilot have never believed that at least in this reality that the earth could be anything other than round.Sorry, I've not read the whole thread, let me ask this. If the Earth is rotating and a plane flies opposite the rotation for X distance, why does is the time of flight the same as flying with the rotation for the same X distance? A valid question, no? I'm not a FE advocate, but the question seems valid.

It depends on what you mean by X distance.
If you talk about a specific distance on the earth, say 1000 miles, then yes, the travel time should be shorter if the plane travels against the rotation of the earth.

Do you have a proof to the contrary? :eek:

[Houman]

Cx4kvbhVxsg
The above experiment shows the emptying of a large pan of water, at three locations, first on the equator, then walking distance south, then walking distance north. The first time, the water did not spin, the second time it spun clockwise into the drain, and the third time counterclockwise. (This note added by Paul.)

[conk]

Do you have a proof to the contrary? :eek:Yes, much proof, but I must keep it secret. ;)

No, just that it seems you might hear anecdotally "I'm flying west to LA, so my flight will take less time than when I fly from LA to NY".

I'm sold on Bill's explanation.

[Bill Ryan]

Cx4kvbhVxsg

That's great! An experiment I can do here in Ecuador, without even having to make a good paper airplane. :bigsmile:




If you talk about a specific distance on the earth, say 1000 miles, then yes, the travel time should be shorter if the plane travels against the rotation of the earth.



Actually, if I may say, I don't think that's correct. It WOULD be shorter if there was a tailwind, which can sometimes happen (because of jetstream effects). But that's not quite the same thing.

[Valley]

I think the main 'objectives' may simply be to divide the movement of truthseekers, attempt to 'muddy the waters' in the revealings of many 'cover-ups' and simply to create confusion/distraction.

When we use a telescope to observe the other planets and their moons in our Solar System, they are all clearly round/spheres... so why would our planet be any different?

When you throw a bucket/cup of water up in the air, it quickly forms into many spheroid shapes before it hits the ground... So that also indicates what other large celestial objects might do over time also.

IMO, FE is a purposefully introduced disinformation campaign to see how gullible/leadable/trickable humans are currently... it was a psychological test to see our current level of "trickability.

[Eram]

If you talk about a specific distance on the earth, say 1000 miles, then yes, the travel time should be shorter if the plane travels against the rotation of the earth.



Actually, if I may say, I don't think that's correct. It WOULD be shorter if there was a tailwind, which can sometimes happen (because of jetstream effects). But that's not quite the same thing.

Errh,

Maybe we are not talking about the same issue then, because I am pretty certain that I am correct in my notion.
I even checked it online on several travel duration back and forth on different places on the earth just now, just to make extra sure. :P
For instance: Amsterdam Istanbul takes about 4:30h and Istanbul Amsterdam is about 2:30h.

It's only logic.
If I sit in a car and I race toward another car that is standing still, the time of travel would be longer then the same situation in which the other car is also traveling towards me.

Please tell me that I am correct, because I am bordering on panic here. :help:

[Bill Ryan]

I think the main 'objectives' may simply be to divide the movement of truthseekers, attempt to 'muddy the waters' in the revealings of many 'cover-ups' and simply to create confusion/distraction.



Yes. One can go on and one pointing out the nonsense and illogic. What's interesting (and the question asked in the thread title) is why trying to explain logic often just doesn't make any difference.

(On the 24/7 mods Skype chat, we've been discussing the Foucault Pendulum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum). I'll give a prize to anyone who can explain that to Eric Dubay in such a way as he actually understands! :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Pendule_de_Foucault.jpg/600px-Pendule_de_Foucault.jpg

[Bill Ryan]

If you talk about a specific distance on the earth, say 1000 miles, then yes, the travel time should be shorter if the plane travels against the rotation of the earth.



Actually, if I may say, I don't think that's correct. It WOULD be shorter if there was a tailwind, which can sometimes happen (because of jetstream effects). But that's not quite the same thing.

Errh,

Maybe we are not talking about the same issue then, because I am pretty certain that I am correct in my notion.
I even checked it online on several travel duration back and forth on different places on the earth just now, just to make extra sure. :P
For instance: Amsterdam Istanbul takes about 4:30h and Istanbul Amsterdam is about 2:30h.

It's only logic.
If I sit in a car and I race toward another car that is standing still, the time of travel would be longer then the same situation in which the other car is also traveling towards me.

Please tell me that I am correct, because I am bordering on panic here. :help:


Nope — you're quite wrong. :bearhug: I even checked the numbers on Orbitz.com (http://Orbitz.com).

The travel time difference was 10 mins (though that can vary slightly with the scheduling). That'll be because of prevailing winds, and/or possibly because of routing protocols over different parts of Europe.

http://projectavalon.net/Amsterdam_Istanbul_flight_times.gif

Your analogy of a car on the road heading towards another moving car doesn't apply... a plane is traveling in the atmosphere, which moves with the Earth. The destination isn't 'moving underneath the plane' while it's in the air.

Another way to see this is that the Earth's surface is moving (spinning) at 1,000 mph — that's 24,000 miles every 24 hours, roughly. Passenger planes only travel at 500-550 mph. According to your thesis, you'd NEVER be able to get to your destination if you were going the 'wrong way'. :)

[Eram]

Oh shoot,

I see it now.
I did not take the earth atmosphere into consideration.
oops. :o
Thanks for explaining.

And I looked at the wrong times with Amsterdam-Istanbul and back.
Still don't understand what those meant then... maybe a time window of departure..

[Bill Ryan]

.
Again — please — :focus:

I do think the question in the thread title is a really interesting and important one. :thumbsup:

[Valley]

I think the main 'objectives' may simply be to divide the movement of truthseekers, attempt to 'muddy the waters' in the revealings of many 'cover-ups' and simply to create confusion/distraction.

Yes. One can go on and one pointing out the nonsense and illogic. What's interesting (and the question asked in the thread title) is why trying to explain logic often just doesn't make any difference.

Right... I think it's so popular because many people these days are catching on that they've been lied to about so much of our history, both ancient and modern (9/11, etc.), that they sometimes tend to believe just about any new conspiracy theory that gets 'airtime'. So I think it's mainly an emotional response/reaction from being lied to so much by a corrupted government/system, more than anything else. I think most folks will quickly realize that not All conspiracy theories are correct... even though there are so many that are proving to be true.

[joeecho]

I, for one, am glad there are people who challenge the status quo whether that comes from science, religion, government, education, or even Avalon itself.

Many if not most of us on Avalon have been on the minority side of many issues in the world and read or discussed with people in and outside of Avalon as to why they believe what they believe. The opposition too will cite facts and figures that are accepted as true by a certain percentage of people.

People rejecting FE will cite many discussions on Avalon over the years that refute it with 100% certainty and declare it a waste of time and space on the pages of Avalon. They will say it is a divide and conquer tactic of the PTB (or whoever), but least we forget, the PTB are not the only ones that use this tactic and some even do it subconsciously.

There is a reason why any and everything can be thoughtfully questioned in this world/ universe and that is because the whole damn thing is questionable.

Sure, we all try to carve out a foundation (a belief we regard as true/ real) that we can stand on, that is human nature, but do not be surprised when that foundational rug is pulled out from under you one day. You’ll be in a better position to laugh it off because you knew one day it would come.

Note: I am not a FE-er or a Sphere-er, for that matter, but I do see significant value in the discussion in the very same way as I see significant value in Avalon itself.

May Avalon be and remain a fearless trail blazer………..

http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/back-to-the-future-delorean.jpg

[AriG]

Divide and conquer is definitely part of the equation. But from my perspective, there is one other affect - to discredit all things alternative media as the ramblings of conspiracy "nutters" dissuades those who worry about their "reputation" from being associated with free thought. Peer pressure. What is it they say about managing the 99%? Not with brute force, but with fear and shame. Label every subject as a "conspiracy theory" and you have essentially shut down the truth movement for the vast majority. That said? Why do so many in the Alternative media sabotage their message with far flung theories? David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder. Same thing with this flat earth bull$hit. Discredits the movement. I flew on the Concord years ago. Trust me. The Earth is NOT flat.

Edit to add:
I failed to address the original question posed in this thread. Why is the FE theory so popular? Two things, I think: (1) There are a lot of cointelpro/dysinfo/psyops agents working on behalf of the elite and (2) there are a lot of individuals, possibly quite mentally ill, who are attracted to "conspiracy theories" (not Alternative media or truth movement). And perhaps a 3rd reason - a lot of trolls out there who get off on what we might call, um.. the MMF. Military Mind F***, who really enjoy getting people emotionally hijacked with complete BS. A form of entertainment for them.

Edit to add again (wouldn't it be nice if I could concisely make my points in one unedited post!)

There is perhaps a 5th reason and it can (imo) be summed up with a video. What if, some of these ridiculous, yet popular theories are sort of a litmus test for the gullibility quota of the average human? A test to determine to what degree they can be "wooled"?

(Bill will get a kick out of the fourth interview, I am sure)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wla9c7CmGxU

[DeDukshyn]

Target, calculate out how long it would take a bullet to travel 1 mile, and figure out how much the earth has turned in that timeframe, and what the difference in speed of rotation would be from the bullets firing point to it's target point -- it is only this difference that dictates the strength of effect of coriolis - at one mile, the difference is so imperceptible that the bullet hitting a fly, or a slight breeze would get taken off course further than the coriolis effect.

Do me the math :) then you will see :) Or wait and I''ll figure it our later for you. Then you realize the scales needed to see coriolis effect.

These aren't easy maths, we normally use an application to figure it out because it's a slope formula with the added variables of velocity, gravity, time -and over 1000+ meter shots it's even more complicated with spin and wind over distance. It's a 4 dimensional slope equation. & always parabolic...before there is drop there is rise (ballistic jump) so you have a parabolic/ballistic slope.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/traj.html

But lets see...

earth's rotation (~465m per second though it depends on where you measure.. so lets not use that, we know it spins 360* in a day everywhere)

7.62mm ammunition, ~ (1000 m/sec) (this is why I keep saying 1000 meters, easier math... haha) you can extrapolate to a mile if you want, but 1000 meters is enough.

The easiest place to calculate the effect is at either pole where the bullet will miss its target by exactly the angle that the Earth turns while the bullet is in flight(simpler maths). Your bullet is in flight for about a second, and the Earth turns 360 degrees in one day, which is about 105 seconds per degree but a better unit is radians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian), the Earth turns .00007 radians per second, so you'll miss by .00007 radians. The nice thing about a radian is you can just multiply it by the distance, 1000 m, to get the amount you'll miss by-- 1000*.00007 is about 0.1 m, or about 10 cm. That's not negligible even at just 1000m!!! Away from the pole it will be less, and it also depends on whether you are shooting north-south (the maximum side-to-side effect, zero up-down effect) or east-west (maximum up-down effect, minimal side-to-side effect) so those angles become important as well in long range shooting... I've seen guys calculate air density in as well (which makes sense I suppose, but seems overly anal). ...



You sort of got it, but your pole example isn't good, no one shoots from the pole, and if the do they are spinning with the erarth. The coriolis force is created via a relative space compression (or expansion I suppose if the object is moving toward the equator) within a specific timeframe, caused by the difference in earth diameter at one side of a large system vs the other, over top of the curvature of a sphere. This space compression in a hurricane creates differentials in pressure between those circumference lines - and that differential, as the storm moves toward a pole, causes it to rotate in a specific direction. The coriolos force is created within this differential. It's a bit more complex than I think you think it is, when you add in the scale of the sphere (earth)

The curvature of the earth is not measureable in any place on the landscape at 1 mile - a slight inclination or declination of landscape(even an unperceivable one)would far overpower any possibility of being able to remotely consider coriolis. This is why bullets and drains DO NOT APPLY.

I'll start on my explanation video ...

[Nasu]

One of my pet theories is the hollow earth theory.

This interesting short clip (under a minute and a half) shows how matter forms in a weightless environment like space, i hope its inclusion here in this thread is obvious. Whatever your belief on hollow earth, can we not say that it is very unlikely that a planet would be formed into a flat shape, not impossible mind you, the universe is an amazing place, but for the most part, planets seem to form into circular or oval shapes, as per our observations..

As for why the interest in the subject of a flat earth, perhaps it's just a natural reaction to finding that most of what we were brought up to beleave just turns out to be false or at least tempered with or from opposing views and perspectives. When you get to this level of disbelief anything can be possible and nothing can be possible, dogs could really be cats, men really mice and so on..

I think from the controllers point of view it helps to compartmentalise deep thinkers into smaller more manageable groups, conspiracy theorists, hollow earth theorists, anchient astronaut theorists, flat earthers, truthers, etc etc... It's aim, IMHO is to devide and rule.... N


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeMzOhoJpfw

[Elandiel BernElve]

I see an interesting combinations of aspects to the question.

Why is it being pushed and where does the phenomenon currently come from?
It's more divide and discredit than it is divide and conquer.

It's one of the reasons Alex Jones doesn't want to touch the extra terrestial subject . It would make him an easy target to discredit his entire work.
Agree with him or not but he is very aware of those mechanisms. In the first X-Files episode of the new season we see how his fictional alterego looses every credibility because of one failed topic.
We all know and see how one thing can break or make a community or a person.

Something can be said for the fact that after many threads and discussions Avalon keeps an eye out so false ideas don't reccur periodically.

Why is the idea so popular?
After having read the whole thread it seems that the magic of being part of a movement that breaks with fundamental ideas seems to give such an adrenaline rush that indeed any form of logical deduction, scientific testing and even like I mentioned before.. using spirituality (dreams, visions, meditation, connection with Mother Earth and the Cosmos) as a way to test and determine the Earth is a globe are being ignored.

Secondly, it's due to an AI program or maybe human resources that the idea is being pushed onto the web . In short, it's being marketed. Whether as an experiment or as a deliberate attempt to dumb parts of the population down.
By using magic and illusions in its theory the right impulses are somehow given to not only hook people on the idea, but to somehow engineer it so, that elements like critical thinking and scientific testing are eliminated in the process.

Either way the intentions are not positive

[Bill Ryan]

it's being marketed.

Yes, I think you totally nailed it. :thumbsup:

[joeecho]

it's being marketed.

Yes, I think you totally nailed it. :thumbsup:

That proves nothing.

Anything you hear, read or view is the result of a form of marketing. Even your own thoughts are a form of marketing from an X amount of input that began the moment your mind could process information coming into it. Most likely even before your birth.

So here you are, in the marketplace. Everything that is anything is set before you. What are you going to buy (into)? There is the exotic isle with its food from other lands. And there are the foods you grew up on, among which you may find your favorites. Many will gravitate here because they are comfort foods.

Everything in the marketplace is marketed but depending on the store one goes to, different items will be placed at eye level.

So then, a thoughtful mind will say, yes, but some foods are ‘good’ for you and some foods are ‘bad’ for you.

Marketing strategy will always highlight its goodness which implies that anything else is ‘less than good’ by default. Hmmmm.

[Bill Ryan]

Anything you hear, read or view is the result of a form of marketing.

Well, sort of. We're surrounded by information, some of which we're urged to believe. I'd suggest that one definition of intelligence is the ability to evaluate and decide things correctly for oneself.

Remember: In the absence of knowledge, a belief system takes control.

No-one's asking anyone to believe anything. (I'm certainly not!) But I am asking you to figure it out.

You owe it to yourself to do that. At least then, you'll be certain.

It's NOT intelligent — and I'll state that outright — to say (in the context of something simple like this) "Well, I don't really know." You can do better than that. All the information is available for you to evaluate and decide. Tons of it. If you still can't do that, then oh boy, the intention to confuse has succeeded.

[joeecho]

Anything you hear, read or view is the result of a form of marketing.
Well, sort of. We're surrounded by information, some of which we're urged to believe. I'd suggest that one definition of intelligence is the ability to evaluate and decide things correctly for oneself.

Exactly.
But sort of? Sort of?

Remember: In the absence of knowledge, a belief system takes control.

Knowledge IS a belief system. You believe in your knowledge. You trust it to real/ true (until it’s not).
In your life you had knowledge that you believed in before it was found wanting, right? That is when you belief system changed, right?


No-one's asking anyone to believe anything. (I'm certainly not!) But I am asking you to figure it out.

Just because I don’t believe in an either or proposition doesn’t mean I haven’t figured it out. That would be something I would ask you to figure out.

I never said “Well, I don’t really know” (Where did those quotations come from, Bill?)

[Bill Ryan]

I never said “Well, I don’t really know” (Where did those quotations come from, Bill?)

—>




I am not a FE-er or a Sphere-er, for that matterThat told us that you don't feel you really know for sure. And that (as you said (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular&p=1053962&viewfull=1#post1053962)) you felt the discussion was more important than the correct conclusion.

I'd suggest that that isn't always the case, at all. Very often, the conclusion is REALLY important.

[joeecho]

I have understood quotation mark use as repeating exact words by someone else.

Why does the conclusion have to be down one road or the other? Hint: It doesn't.

http://honeyinthesun.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/forkInTheRoad.gif

Do you ever wonder where the words "forked tongue" originated? Or why the cloven hoof is associated with the Devil?

(By absolutely NO means am I calling you a liar or the Devil by the above references, I only use them for their symbolic referencing)

Neither road will arrive at the conclusion/ truth. Arbitrary truth yes, if that comforts you.

An adventure down either road, but the truth, nah.

[DarMar]

Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

Would propose that answer is rather simple one.
I have never heard anything became popular if DEMAND for it was not present.

And I have never heard of bucket that does not spill water when it becomes too full..
Globe idea is marketed and imprinted 24-7, 7 days in week 365 days of year through life. Bucket got overfilled :D

People are somehow ashamed to admit that they REALLY don't know.
We are not given gift of knowing some things, tho we have power of observation and belief which we call knowing for some reason.
Science is weird religion, which get tuned every time sci-entities discover something new. Which they actually don't have an darn idea how it came to be, but they will adapt it somehow.. at least until they discover something new, then gets tuned again.

We do not live on globe not ball (baal), our place we be is called EARTH which is anagram for HEART (discplaced H, 8th letter), there are some fun beliefs about 8 .. from luck to eternity.
But thats really not necessary to discuss even if thematic is deep and should be discussed.
Because when one knows something, he really can not learn any more.
Again bucket is full the rest of info will be spilled.

At least water is fun :) besides it can not be curved, it always find it's level. Pure observation conclusion. And is still subjective, no mater what we do.

Demand is here, and is here for reason. No need to push it under carpet, nothing good ever accomplished that way.

[araucaria]

At least water is fun :) besides it can not be curved, it always find it's level.

Yeah, right :) How about if it is curved in order to find its level.
http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetware.com/photos-large/CDN/canada-niagara-falls-horseshoe-falls.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetware.com/tourist-attractions-/niagara-falls-cdn-on-onnf.htm&h=420&w=630&tbnid=W_bQGuUt4TWO9M:&tbnh=160&tbnw=240&docid=b2s4bnXvz53sdM&itg=1&usg=__JTD_QAL-qjqnNHPWm-MK4ohTv4M=

Why the flat earth meme is so popular, I would suggest, is because it is hardwired into the human mind from ancient times. One implication of David Talbott’s theory regarding Saturn stationed at the North Pole would be a very different world view from today’s. Instead of having an equator equidistant between two poles now considered to be more or less equivalent (but are they?), you would have a world extending from a unipolar hot spot and tapering off at some point in the south. See this post: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88150-David-Talbott-The-Electric-Universe-The-Saturn-Sun-Swap-The-Reconstructing-Of-Mythology&p=1044930&viewfull=1#post1044930

The underworld. This would also explain why all the oldest civilizations were in the northern hemisphere, in what are today temperate areas. They would have been the most temperate areas back then too, not too far from the limited heat from Saturn. But there is another reason why further south would not be viable. For as you moved towards the equator and beyond, the polar configuration would begin to dip below the horizon until only the upper crescent of Saturn was visible. Still further south, even this much would be out of sight. Hence much of the southern hemisphere would be in permanent penumbra and even darkness, with only starlight and possibly moonlight. Notice, this is the only place where the stars would be visible, since the northern hemisphere would be in perpetual daylight from Saturn.

This configuration provides a more satisfactory explanation for the ancient twin notions of the heavens (ouranos) on the one hand, and on the other, the underworld. The Earth would really have been divided into a dark zone and a light zone. This would be compatible with a flat earth world view: you would not literally fall off the edge, but you would come to a point where most would venture no further. Whatever went on in the underworld, it would have been a very different place from simply the area beneath the horizon at any one time, as is often thought.

[HaveBlue]

F.E.ers are T.A.P.S I.M.O

[Valley]

I don't think the 'shapeshifting thing' has lost Icke too many 'supporters', as I think he still draws some of the largest lecture crowds in these alternative 'fields of research'/'movements'. : ) But should we expect that public figures like him have absolutely no 'flaws' in their thinking? ...That would be asking a Lot of someone.

Why do so many in the Alternative media sabotage their message with far flung theories? David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder.

[Bill Ryan]

F.E.ers are T.A.P.S I.M.O

I had to go look that up. :)

It's one of these (http://www.acronymfinder.com/TAPS.html)!

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder. Same thing with this flat earth bull$hit. Discredits the movement. I flew on the Concord years ago. Trust me. The Earth is NOT flat.



Well, with reptilians, David is being a good scientist (as it were), logging and reporting eyewitness reports and personal experiences. Just like UFO and Bigfoot experiencers do (and those who've had even weirder experiences, too).

I'd simply say he's being fearless, and committed to the truth, whatever it is. Whether it's WISE to do this, is a different question.

But the 'Flat Earth' is a different category of discussion. We're not talking about people who had a frightening encounter with something that seemed to be a Dogman, a Mothman, a Vampire, or a Werewolf. The Flat Earthers are not basing anything whatsoever on experience or observation. They're theoretical arguments only, flying in the face of mountains (and thousands of years) of experimental and experiential fact — like flying on Concord. :)




Neither road will arrive at the conclusion/ truth. Arbitrary truth yes, if that comforts you.

An adventure down either road, but the truth, nah.

Nope. If you hold a tennis ball in your hand, it's a sphere. You can play tennis with it, and it bounces and rolls. You can check it out to see if really does that, as opposed to being some kind of illusion or false belief. That's not an 'arbitrary truth'. Go buy a tennis ball and try it!

(Unless you really stretch the definition and maintain that everything is subjective perception only, and therefore there's no such thing as 'truth'. If that's your position, it's a philosophical one, not a pragmatic one, and is of no useful value except for the metaphysical discussion. I don't think that's what's being discussed here. Some people maintain that the tennis ball is really flat, and won't roll or bounce at all.)

[Uncle Mikey]

Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

It's a psyop designed to ultimately discredit and debunk the Christian Bible.

Although the Bible supports a 'globe' Earth, there are a few verses that can be 'spun' to support a Flat Earth, thus making Christians look ignorant.

The phrase 'four corners of the Earth' for example, can be falsely interpreted to give one the picture of a F.E.

With the IQ of the average person sinking lower and lower, I see this as a sort of 'trial balloon' by the debunkers to gauge their Christianity destroying agenda progress.

[TargeT]

thus making Christians look ignorant.


Well, I suppose there still are a bunch of christians out there (honestly organized religion is so irrelevant to me I lose sight of that at times); that's defiantly an angle I did not consider... though it's also an angle I don't agree with, I saw no significant biblical references when I went through the material.. i don't think this was targeted specifically at christians, though I'm sure that's an added benefit that isn't ignored.

[Bill Ryan]

Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular?

It's a psyop designed to ultimately discredit and debunk the Christian Bible.



And, probably, the Muslims, the Hindus and Buddhists too. Certainly the Ancient Greeks! And every scientist, astronomer, geographer, and Concord passenger there's ever been.

For that matter, anyone who's ever flown on a round-the-world trip. Or sailed round the world. Or crossed the International Date Line. Or who lives in North America or Europe and who's spoken in real time with a friend in Australia, with a 12 hour day-night time difference. Or anyone with a half-decent telescope (good binoculars on a tripod will do!) who's looked at the stars at night, and who's never seen a flat planet anywhere.

Others might like to add to this list. It's a pretty long one! It's not just about Christian tradition.

[AriG]

I remember the time before I incarnated here. I was in an orb of sorts. I remember looking at Earth (looks exactly like every space shot I've ever seen) as my "mentor" told me that it was going to be a very difficult trip but that if I didn't go now, I would have to wait a very long time. My "mentor" was insistent that I go, almost yelling at me. "Go now! You must go NOW!", so I dove out of the orb. Next memory, extreme pain and pressure and bright light. That trip really trumped the Concord. ;)

[araucaria]

Others might like to add to this list. It's a pretty long one! It's not just about Christian tradition.
Try this post from last year's thread: I might want to change a comma or two, but right now I have nothing to add to it
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83765-A-Flat-Earth-not-Round-...&p=994586&viewfull=1#post994586
[/URL]

¤=[Post Update]=¤



F.E.ers are T.A.P.S I.M.O

I had to go look that up. :)

It's one of [URL="http://www.acronymfinder.com/TAPS.html"]these (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?83765-A-Flat-Earth-not-Round-...&p=994586&viewfull=1#post994586)!

:focus:
My money's on
Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors

[joeecho]

(Unless you really stretch the definition and maintain that everything is subjective perception only, and therefore there's no such thing as 'truth'. If that's your position, it's a philosophical one, not a pragmatic one, and is of no useful value except for the metaphysical discussion. I don't think that's what's being discussed here. Some people maintain that the tennis ball is really flat, and won't roll or bounce at all.)

It's funny how people perceive their world in the third dimension but think two dimensionally.

http://curated.stampede-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/manik-ratan6.jpg

[TargeT]

(Unless you really stretch the definition and maintain that everything is subjective perception only, and therefore there's no such thing as 'truth'. If that's your position, it's a philosophical one, not a pragmatic one, and is of no useful value except for the metaphysical discussion. I don't think that's what's being discussed here. Some people maintain that the tennis ball is really flat, and won't roll or bounce at all.)

Though, if you take that very same idea, and NOT polarize it; it's a very useful concept to keep in mind. Especially when trying to truly communicate a fully comprehended concept for your intended audience...

I don't think many truths are "fully" the same for everyone; there is always a slightly different connotation which can be exacerbated into miscommunication.

Getting two minds to agree on a concept in it's entirety isn't super common, not with out compromises, possibly (imo probably) due to the above.

[Cidersomerset]

Quote Posted by AriG (here)

David Icke is an example. Why oh why does he have to bring up shape shifting Reptillians when his message of the oppression of the human race stands on its own legs? Please understand, I love David Icke. But what does he think he is accomplishing for truth when he devalues his message with allegations that are not substantiated? Makes one wonder. Same thing with this flat earth bull$hit. Discredits the movement. I flew on the Concord years ago. Trust me. The Earth is NOT flat.

Well, with reptilians, David is being a good scientist (as it were), logging and reporting eyewitness reports and personal experiences. Just like UFO and Bigfoot experiencers do (and those who've had even weirder experiences, too).

I'd simply say he's being fearless, and committed to the truth, whatever it is. Whether it's WISE to do this, is a different question.


=============================================================


I know this is off topic but I have just relistened to this interview and is worth
listening to it ties into the basis of political and possibly darker control of
of other entities . The interview goes straight into the subject and is indepth.

Why I posted it here is aprox 118 mins in David start talking about the
Royal family and how Satanism and peadophilia is at the heart of it which
leads to him talking about hybrid humans and quoting Christine Fitzgerald
a friend of Princess Diana and what she told him about some of the Windsors,
being hybrid bloodlines and goes into some detail how it works......

This does not mean you have to believe him , but it ties in with other information
and cannot be dismissed out of hand imo even if the mainstream ridicule it.

========================================================

I listened to the brief section from Davids video cast in the above post and
as it finished this one started playing. I have listened and posted these before
but its a excellent indepth introduction into Satanism , paedophilia ,mind control
and more info he has researched over the years and I'm listening to it now.......

George Bush senior , Dick Chaney, Bill Clinton , Gerald Ford and many other
rich and famous are all part of these sadistic parties and rituals.....


David Icke: Royal Political Paedophilia.

Se0UF3pE534

Published on 30 Nov 2014

David Icke - Two Hour Special on Royal/Political Paedophilia Talking on the Richie Allen Show - How the Global Pieces Fit.
Please Help Support The Richie Allen Show
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/th

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89447-Panel-World-Pedophile-child-sacrifice--ritualized-murder---network&p=1054264&viewfull=1#post1054264

[Valley]

I've a friend that also says he remembers the 'time' before incarnating, where he remembers being a Star/Sun 🌞... but he didn't mention anything about seeing the Earth. He did also say that he was being told by someone that it wasn't going to be easy (incarnating on Earth)... but that it was a great opportunity, with a lot of potential . Those are things you normally wouldn't just speak to anyone about... So thanks for sharing that 'perspective' here. Who can say it isn't 'accurate'?
I remember the time before I incarnated here. I was in an orb of sorts. I remember looking at Earth (looks exactly like every space shot I've ever seen) as my "mentor" told me that it was going to be a very difficult trip but that if I didn't go now, I would have to wait a very long time. My "mentor" was insistent that I go, almost yelling at me. "Go now! You must go NOW!", so I dove out of the orb. Next memory, extreme pain and pressure and bright light. That trip really trumped the Concord. ;)

[Hervé]

Well, that one is not from NASA:


http://www.sott.net/image/s15/309066/full/Japan_Scott_Kelly.jpg
Soyouz over Japan

[Bill Ryan]

.
And neither is this. (Taken by Concord passenger Vincent Coude du Foresto (http://spie.org/profile/Vincent.Coude-du-Foresto-9838))

http://nicmosis.as.arizona.edu:8000/ECLIPSE_WEB/ECLIPSE_01/CONCORD2.jpg


:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

.
An interim comment here: I really have found this thread interesting. A lot of food for thought.

I think the general problem may be a kind of imbalance. (And that's what's capitalized on by the CIA and others who use these things to discredit the alternative media. And boy, is that easy to do sometimes.)

Here's the imbalance:

http://projectavalon.net/too_much_information.gif


By 'information'. I mean everything that's on the net. Opinions, thoughts, blogs, videos, movies, tweets, forwarded e-mails, Facebook comments, the enormous amount of 'noise' that's out there now. It can be almost overwhelming.

And anyone — I mean ANYONE — has a voice now. And everyone's kind of shouting.

I suspect that all this was anticipated (and encouraged) years ago by the intel agencies. They knew we'd be overwhelmed. And that overwhelm disables us. More is not always better.

Here's a simple example. 20-25 years ago, there was really just one UFO book for everyone to buy as a must-read. It was excellent (and still is). That's Above Top Secret, by Timothy Good. It still contains 90% of the information that anyone new to the subject needs to know.

I had an e-mail from someone a few days ago asking what website to go to for good information about UFOs. I've still not replied. There are WAY too many to choose from, and I still don't know how best to simplify my answer.

In all that, we have a few Flat-Earthers adding to the cacophony with their own megaphone. (And quite a lot of others, too, on other issues, but this thread is not about them.)

Most people can't deal with all the noise, so they filter out everything except just a few topics.

And — I'd suggest — that's also why mainstream media followers can't hear the intelligent and well-informed alternative media. And if they DO tune in to listen for a moment, the Flat-Earthers (and others!) are there, not far away, to drive them away again.

Can you see how clever it all is?

[Nick Matkin]

.
An interim comment here: I really have found this thread interesting. A lot of food for thought.

I think the general problem may be a kind of imbalance. (And that's what's capitalized on by the CIA and others who use these things to discredit the alternative media. And boy, is that easy to do sometimes.)

Here's the imbalance:

http://projectavalon.net/too_much_information.gif

Bill, I think that's hit the nail on the head!

Unfortunately the "Not enough experience, ability or background knowledge to process it all" brigade simply don't realise it applies to them...

[Cidersomerset]

I was looking for some vids of Earth on U'tube and decided to have a tour of the
Space station.Aprox 13min 40 secs in she shows the audience the cupola viewing
port showing the Earth....


HOW IT WORKS: The International Space Station

SGP6Y0Pnhe4

Published on 3 Jul 2015

This educational documentary video goes inside the International Space Station
(ISS) which is a space station in low Earth orbit. First launched into orbit in 1998,
and now its the largest artificial body in orbit and can often be seen with the human
naked eye. The crew can only stay in space orbit for several months maximum,
then then must return to Earth. The ISS interior consists of pressurized modules,
external trusses, solar arrays, and other components. ISS components have been
launched by Russian Proton and Soyuz rockets as well as American Space Shuttles.
NASA and many other countries help construct it.


===================================================

Astronaut Cady Coleman's Space Station Cupola Tour

OwUtSptxKbM

Published on 29 Oct 2014

The NASA astronaut shows off the "windows to the world" aboard the International Space Station...




====================================================

Window on the World

U54RMrBK9vU

Uploaded on 15 Nov 2010


Expedition 26 Commander Scott Kelly shows off the International
Space Station's observation deck known as the cupola.

========================================

I wanted to see if there were some Russian , Chinese or other country
showing pictures of the Earth from space. Found this I do not know if
genuine ?.....

Russian video of Earth from Space 2015

DxbPCV_kbpw

====================================================


[ISS] Mike Fossum Tours Cupola on Station

wodOKkvYTHA

Uploaded on 16 Nov 2011

Mike Fossum filmed a small tour of Node 3 and the Cupola - The windowed dome
module that looks down onto Earth.

====================================================


ISS Timelapse - Just another day inside the Cupola (30 Novembre 2015)
.

_gJdhW71ypA


====================================================

All Alone in the Night - Time-lapse footage of the Earth as seen from the ISS

FG0fTKAqZ5g

===================================================


Earth Seen From Space Station ISS [Real Speed HD]

XG90YYHCSeA

Published on 31 May 2014


International Space Station flying above our beautiful Planet Earth. Real speed

====================================================

Sorry I got a bit carried away up in the space station .....LOL

[Hervé]

From the template:


As far as the question goes, its answer fall under the rubric of "Social Engineering," AKA "Psy-op."


The following is an article by Jon Rappoport on how psy-ops work and how they are orchestrated in social engineering schemes and which I keep referencing here and there.
[...]

The "yearning": TRUTH!

The "hook": You have been lied to and NASA lies all the time...

The logical fallacy: Therefore NASA's round earth cannot be true...

The new religion: Earth is flat! ... and that's the whole truth!

Why? To check if it works!

Here are some backdrops examples for some other Psy-ops:


--------------------------------------------------------------


How the CIA’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/)

By Jonas E. Alexis (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/alexis/) on March 18, 2016


The Doctrinal Warfare Program is the name given to a classified US Government operation commenced in 1953 (in a document entitled PSB D33 with annexes) which targeted the intellectuals, business leaders, and clerics in a number of different societies with the goal of having them approve of the American ideology in principle.



…by Jonas E. Alexis (http://www.veteranstoday.com/staff-writers/) & David A. Wemhoff (http://www.wemhofflaw.com/experience/)

David Wemhoff (http://www.wemhofflaw.com/experience/) is an Indiana attorney and has practiced law for more than twenty years. He received a Juris Doctor degree from the University of the Pacific, and an A.B. in Government from the University of Notre Dame. Wemhoff has taught college courses in Government, Constitutional Law, and Business Law.

Alexis: Your 990-page study, John Courtney Murray, Time/Life, and the American Proposition: How the C.I.A.’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church, is filled with archival documents and references, which obviously shows that you have thoroughly done your homework. For people who have never heard of the work and its content, lay out the thesis for us here.

Wemhoff: The American leadership (i.e., the socio-economic-cultural elites in American society) coordinated their efforts (mainly media) with the US Government through its Doctrinal Warfare Program, and by using something called psychological warfare, to change the thinking of the Catholic leadership so as to get them to accept as good in principle the ideology underlying American society and also accept America as the idea of social organization.

I document these efforts, which were part of a broader effort to co-opt leaders of all religions. The plan of the American leadership was to use the Catholic Church, and other religions, to then propagate the American ideology, which formed the society known as America, all as a response ostensibly to Soviet Communism.

Acceptance and implementation of the American ideology served to align these societies with America and the USA against the USSR and Communism, and it also served to re-order these same societies thereby opening them to powerful private interests. The book discusses this effort, the response by some Catholic leaders and scholars, and it focuses on the period of about 1941 through 1965 or the conclusion of the Vatican II Council.

The Doctrinal Warfare Program is the name given to a classified US Government operation commenced in 1953 (in a document entitled PSB D33 with annexes) which targeted the intellectuals, business leaders, and clerics in a number of different societies with the goal of having them approve of the American ideology in principle. Psychological warfare is defined further on in this interview.

Two key aspects of the American ideology my book proposes are 1) the so-called separation of church and state along with a conception of religious liberty which means that there is not a state established church and that religion is not to form the basis of public policy and 2) the freedom of the press which effectively puts culture, and real power over the minds of the citizenry, in the hands of private concerns.

These two ideas are part of a generalized political philosophy that is part of something called limited government. The American ideology is part of what is called Liberalism, and is in large measure protected by the US Constitution. This ideology, along with the foundational documents of America, serves to create a political economy.

Acceptance of the ideology and the modeling of one’s society in accordance with it results in the implementation of a peculiar political economy which places all religions on an equal footing, has the religions supporting the political economy and the political regime, provides material benefits to the various religions, and minimizes a source of tension in society though the real influence of the religions are vastly reduced and they come to be dominated by powerful private interests if not also the civil authorities, or government.

Catholic doctrine, as I understand was presented by the various scholars that I mention and studied in my book, holds that the civil authorities, or the government, are/is responsible for following something called the divine positive law of Jesus Christ. This means that civil authorities are required to establish the Catholic faith as the religion of the state, and the Catholic Church as the state church.

No one is to be forced to convert, but the public policies are to be based on the divine positive law of Jesus Christ (or the Catholic Faith), and not just the natural law which is what was advocated by the Catholic theologians advancing the American ideology.

“Natural law” is an equivocal concept capable of differing meanings or definitions, and hence prone to manipulation by those with the will and means to do so, and significantly for Catholics it is used to ignore the existence of Jesus Christ, an important historical figure and God-Man who the Catholics say founded their Church and gave them certain precepts to follow.

A focus in the book is on the back and forth between Catholic theologians and others on the issues of church and state relations and religious liberty. Simply put, one side defending Catholic doctrine was lead by a Catholic priest of the Redemptorist order, Francis Connell, and the other side advancing the American ideology was lead by a Catholic priest of the Jesuit order, John Courtney Murray.

Alexis: In chapter 11, you argue that there was actually a psychological warfare going on. Describe that for us.

Wemhoff: Psychological, or political warfare, is the manipulation of words, images, events, and ideas to shape a target audience’s views, ideas, perceptions and beliefs. The Americans developed it and perfected it on a grand scale during World War II and also the Cold War, or what I term World War III since it was actually fought all over the world.

The idea of psychological warfare, like every other idea in American society, first arose in the private sector and then was adopted, developed and expanded by the US Government as a tool, or weapon, against the Axis powers and later the Catholic Church, and other American friends in the so-called Free World. Charles Douglas Jackson (“CD Jackson”) was an expert in this new weapon or tool and he worked for Henry R. Luce, a media mogul, as well as the US Government.

Alexis: You write that
“In exchange for his ideas, the Rockefellers gave [John Courtney Murray] money access to the funding offered by the elite foundations. Murray’s contact with the Rockefellers allowed Georgetown University to land funding for a program entitled ‘An experimental Program in Executive Education to be Undertaken Cooperatively by Georgetown University and The William A. Jump Memorial Foundation,’ which was meant to ‘enlarge the abilities’ of men and women to rise in ‘career executive positions in the Federal Government and there exercise an important influence on the growth of democratic institutions.’

“Murray wrote a letter to Dean Rusk, at the time the president of the Rockefeller Foundation, when he asked them for money. Helping the Rockefellers made one popular with Catholics in the U.S. because of the money that flowed to Catholic institutions…”[1] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftn1)
Tell us who John Courtney Murray really was and unpack for us the moral and intellectual consequences of his attachment to the Rockefellers, who were feverishly working to depopulate some specific groups in America.

Wemhoff: As previously mentioned, Murray was a Catholic priest of the Jesuit order, and he was born and raised in New York City. His importance is that he provided the appearance of Catholic theological justification for the American ideology, which was termed the American Proposition.

Henry Luce, a media mogul who founded Time, Inc. which published the magazines of Time, Fortune, Life, and Sports Illustrated, worked closely with the US Government and the Rockefellers in terms of advancing the American Proposition. Luce was a friend, patron, and in general, a fellow-traveler with Murray. Together, Luce and Murray (who also worked with the Rockefellers) lead the effort to convince the Catholic leadership that America was the ideal form of social organization.

However, Murray was not the only Catholic priest used to advance Liberalism, it is just that he is the best known. Felix Morlion was a Dominican priest who founded Pro Deo University and who was actively promoting the American ideology before Murray got involved. Morlion’s efforts were funded by American intelligence and supported by Luce and his people.

Pro Deo University was headquartered in Rome and it taught its students that America was the ideal society while preparing these students for leadership roles in business and society in their home countries, many of which were Catholic countries such as those in Latin America.

Another Catholic priest was Gustave Weigel, also a Jesuit, who was an apologist for America in Latin America during much of the 1930s and the 1940s. Indeed, a part of the Jesuit order was engaged in defending and promoting the American ideology especially through the magazine known as America.

Weigel is quite notable as he was the first to articulate the idea that a Catholic can believe one thing privately but in public office he has to act differently. (This gained notoriety in the 1980s when Governor Mario Cuomo said he was personally opposed to abortion but supported a woman’s right to chose.) This idea effectively strips power from the Church and the Catholic Faith to influence public policy.

The most powerful players in society then become private interests, and these are oftentimes the financial interests. My book documents the various conferences held by the American leadership to lay the plans and stress the importance of convincing societies of the importance and value of accepting the American Proposition, or the American ideology.

There was a close coordination between the media, intelligence services, and financial interests, and Luce with his lieutenants as well as the key leaders of these various sectors understood the importance and power of private capital.

Alexis: You said that “No one wanted to write Murray’s biography, and to this day, no one has.”[2] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftn2) You also suggested that people perceived that “Murray was part of the establishment…Murray was part of the efforts of the American elites and U.S. Government to conquer the Church, and a biography would expose the connection.”[3] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftn3)

Wemhoff: My book, I believe, exposes the connection, but more importantly it explains why Murray’s efforts were considered by the powerful people of his day to be so important which was ultimately to advance the financial and political power of certain segments of American society. Ideas are the most powerful of tools, or weapons.

[...] [see full article here (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/) (<---)]

-----------


[1] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftnref1) David A. Wemhoff, John Courtney Murray, Time/Life, and the American Proposition: How the C.I.A.’s Doctrinal Warfare Program Changed the Catholic Church (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2015), 509.
[2] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftnref2) Ibid., 893.
[3] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftnref3) Ibid., 893-894.
[4] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftnref4) E. Michael Jones, Is Notre Dame Still Catholic? (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2009); Libido Dominandi: Sexual Liberation and Political Control (South Bend: St. Augustine’s Press, 2000); The Catholic Church and the Cultural Revolution (South Bend: Fidelity Press, 2016).
[5] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftnref5) John D. Sutter, “3 ways the Catholic church should embrace gay rights,” CNN, October 15, 2014.
[6] (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/03/18/how-the-cias-doctrinal-warfare-program-changed-the-catholic-church/#_ftnref6) Quoted in Jones, The Catholic Church and the Cultural Revolution, kindle edition.


------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now, regarding the promotion of trends and the CIA:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From Sue Arrigo's Case 12: The Exorbitant Cost of Cooking Intelligence

Submitted to Waxman’s Congressional Committee on Govt. Oversight and Reform on Monday 26 May 2008.

Shortly before Tenet announced his resignation on June 3, 2004, I submitted evidence to the GAO that the intelligence reports at the CIA were being cooked at ridiculous cost.
[Note: For a brief overview of this topic please see an 8 minute You Tube at http://
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP18L0PtKS0, including that Chalibi, a convicted bank swindler, was paid $345,000.00 a month to provide intelligence to the CIA.]

What I sent the GAO included evidence that selected people inside the CIA were paying “independent” think tanks and scholars very high fees for articles. The independents had been contracted to have a particular point of view or conclusion. It was one way that the neo-cons used to shift the CIA’s analysts and foreign policy in the direction that they wanted. The corruption case that I sent the GAO had to do with exorbitant fees being paid for these cooked “independent” articles.

I documented that one 5-page article had been written in 2 days to re-iterate a self-serving view; the CIA and thus the US taxpayer had paid over a million dollars for it. It was not a report on a scientific study that had taken time to complete. The author of it was not a scientist. I looked at that article myself. It had not a single reference in it. It faithfully followed the handwritten notes of the author from the call which gave him the assignment.

The person who called him was a staffer at the White House. The author was an academician at an Ivy League college, Harvard, if I remember correctly. The opinion took on a respectable patina after passing through the typewriter of that professor. The CIAs analysts then referenced the opinion as if it were fact in their own reports.

The article was on how Middle Eastern countries were financially incompetent to manage their own accounting and banking affairs. No evidence was given for that assertion. It recommended that loans made to and from Middle Eastern banks to US corporations/banks under a certain size should be forced to go through banking structures that the US could control. The staffer calling in that assignment to the Professor had received a call within the hour from David Rockefeller. The staffer’s hand written notes from that call showed that he had faithfully transmitted Rockefeller’s instructions to the Professor. Those instructions included recommending that the World Bank and the Bank of International Settlements in Basel be used to give “the US oversight control”.

But as both of those institutions were controlled, not by the US govt. but by David Rockefeller, it gave the control to him, not the US Govt.. That is, unless one made the mistake of thinking that David Rockefeller was the US Govt.. It was a mistake that perhaps he had made subconsciously.

I guessed that the point of that propaganda stunt by Rockefeller was to set the stage for his taking over many banks in the Middle East later. It also seemed designed to cut out smaller companies from being able to compete with his own enterprises. It later prevented Iraqis and Afghanis from getting the loans they needed to rebuild themselves. It forced them to wait for US reconstruction by large US corporations. It was part of a set of US policies which put a stranglehold on their economies in practice. That often forced them to work for the US occupation of their country or watch their children starve to death.

[...][see full article (http://pauljackson.us/sue_arrigo/US_Corruption_%20Cases_%201-17_UD_with_photos_%204%20Jun%2008.pdf) [PDF file] detailing the various CIA schemes to goad public opinion in any direction]

-------------------------------------------------------------------


In 'em times of last century, one needed to coral all these media moguls to promote those ideas... which is what the Rockefellers/Rothschilds did. Nowadays, with the internet, one can do that from some basement.... However. as I mentioned here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular&p=1053625&viewfull=1#post1053625) (<---) there is serious $$ involved with the promotion of the "Flat Earth society."

This might be one of those pre-tests to starting a new global religion to reckon what population percentage will bite the hook....

[Mike]

Seems to me the "flat earth" idea appeals to people's sense of what I can only call over-rebelliousness.

This over-rebelliousness is an odd phenomena. It distorts and exaggerates the noble concept of "think for yourself" until it ever so slowly becomes the dogmatic dictate "seek your own counsel alone and never listen to anyone else, even wise, well meaning people who wish to help you". This type of individual see's everything as a threat or a deliberate attempt to mislead, and has overcompensated by distrusting everything...even logic n reason on occasion.

It's a mentality thats rampant in alt circles. These folks tend to confuse healthy skepticism with 24/7 cynicism. Somehow they just never learned to pump the breaks a little.

It's a little understandable in a way. You get fooled time and again in this business and people get defensive. The walls go up. "Think for yourself" becomes a rallying cry and point of pride for those whose sense of discernment has been wounded. It becomes almost a movement. No one wants to be fooled again, or thought of as naive or unintellgent, so they overcompensate and question everything right down to the color of their socks....and in the process become exactly what theyre trying not to become (especially in the case of the flat earth) - naive and unintelligent.

If it is a psy-op its a pretty good one, as it uses the defining attitudes of the alt movement against itself. It is by nature non trusting and suspicious...great fuel for the fire. All "they" need to do is strike a match

[Cidersomerset]

I am looking at the RT U'tube page and watched these vids as I have watched
many before and never questioned , that we could not get into orbit and the Earth
was spherical , and although I posted a couple vids earlier in the thread and
encourage debate ............ uhm !!!

I am open to many theories , but these vids would have to be CGI,which is possible
and the crew of the space station were really in a modified 'vomit commet ' plane ,
or some other simulator. Also the whole space world would have to be in on the
deception , more than if the Moon landings films were hoaxed or not ? This is a
conspiracy theory a bit to far. Unless it can be proved of course , I just cannot see it though .

The world is spherical as far as I'm concerned.....http://netanimations.net/stars_33.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supply Run: Cargo ship docks with International Space Station

f4QDHQLjee0

Published on 26 Mar 2016

Orbital ATK's Cygnus cargo spacecraft docked with the International Space Station.
The United Launch Alliance launched the spacecraft atop an Atlas V rocket from the
Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida on Tuesday. The spacecraft will deliver
an estimated 7,500 pounds (3401.94 kg) of supplies and science equipment to
support experiments in biology, biotechnology, physical science and Earth science.
The Cygnus will remain docked with the ISS for two months before returning to
Earth with 3,000 pounds (1360.78 kg) of waste from the station.

COURTESY: RT's RUPTLY video agency, NO RE-UPLOAD, NO REUSE - FOR
LICENSING, PLEASE, CONTACT http://ruptly.tv.. RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mShqsXcYlFA
RAW: NASA's Orbital ATK Cygnus capsule with supplies for ISS launched from Cape
Canaveral Published on 23 Mar 2016

NASA’s Orbital ATK Cygnus capsule is taking off from Cape Canaveral, Florida. The
rocket is filled with nearly 7,500 lbs of science and research, crew supplies and
vehicle hardware that will be received by the International Space Station.

READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/77vm

===================================================


http://www.netanimations.net/GPS-satellite-around-Earth-moving-animation.gif

http://www.netanimations.net/earth_globes.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Real-time Satellites in Google Earth

ydbbd-4oEds

[bluestflame]

remember the ice bucket challenge ? , further experiments in the effectiveness of viral marketing

[ThePythonicCow]

The Millenium Report weighs in on this issue: The Flat Earthers Are Being Sent Into Every Real Truth Movement To Disrupt And Destroy Them (http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/03/the-flat-earthers-are-being-sent-into-every-real-truth-movement-to-disrupt-and-destroy-them/). They figure it's "a full-blown DARPA-conceived, CIA-directed, NSA-monitored, DIA-driven black operation", and we shouldn't waste our time on it.

[Bill Ryan]

The Millenium Report weighs in on this issue: The Flat Earthers Are Being Sent Into Every Real Truth Movement To Disrupt And Destroy Them (http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/03/the-flat-earthers-are-being-sent-into-every-real-truth-movement-to-disrupt-and-destroy-them/). They figure it's "a full-blown DARPA-conceived, CIA-directed, NSA-monitored, DIA-driven black operation", and we shouldn't waste our time on it.

:bump:

Yes, exactly. Everyone reading this absolutely must understand what this is all about.

[TargeT]

The Millenium Report.... They figure it's "a full-blown DARPA-conceived, CIA-directed, NSA-monitored, DIA-driven black operation", and we shouldn't waste our time on it.

Then I think we should take this as a victory... it failed VERY fast, take a look at google trends analysis of the search term "flat earth":
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=flat%20earth

that was a very quick correction IMO...

[norman]

FLAT EARTH - THE MOVIE might turn out to be their next move.

I wonder if they've managed to get enough damaging 'footage' from all this to put together a Pop movie that ridicules the truthers.

I'm not quite ready to declare victory.

[Inversion]

Corey Goode was asked if the Earth is flat and he said it's spherical. Personally I feel there's some sort of anomalous dynamic in the southern hemisphere. Most the images we've seen from satellites and the ISS are of the northern hemisphere. I think they're actively hiding something.

[TargeT]

Corey Goode was asked if the Earth is flat and he said it's spherical. Personally I feel there's some sort of anomalous dynamic in the southern hemisphere. Most the images we've seen from satellites and the ISS are of the northern hemisphere. I think they're actively hiding something.

It's much simpler than that... it's "northern hemisphere bias"... the easiest way to discount a place is to not mention it... the "media" is all based in capitalism, they will ONLY show the "winners" of capitalism (which is currently the US and EU which dominate the majority of the northern hemisphere). This simple tactic re-enforces the ideas you want and downplays the ideas you don't... it's all about focus, attention... energy.

[Peace of Mind]

Flat, round, curved, square or triangle...we can still live on it. Not sure if there's an urgent issue involved here... other than uncovering more deceit.

What really concerns me is...

How do we pretend to know about aliens, their origins, distant planets and star systems…but struggle in understanding humanity and knowing the shape of our own planet? wow

Peace

[Bill Ryan]

Corey Goode was asked if the Earth is flat and he said it's spherical.

Oh, good! So now we know.

:)

:focus:

[Robin]

Let's have some fun, shall we?

What if the year we are living in is not in fact 2016? Would this surprise you?

---------

What if around 12,000 years ago (roughly around the real year 2016), humanity "lost" the global battle and accepted micro-chips in their bodies, falling for the transhumanism agenda of the global elite thinking it was a good idea?

What if the A.I. that the global elite have been working with (more like working "for") took all humans off of sphere planet Earth onto some kind of artificial dome-like creation, put human bodies in a bunch of pods, and created a similation of the last 12,000 years from the end of Atlantis (Fall of consciousness), all the way to around the year 2016?

What if this A.I. experiment was allowed to happen by E.T. races, to give humanity one last chance to learn from their mistakes by experiencing a "video game" simulated reality that is an exact "echo" of what transpired on the real, sphere planet Earth, which is currently healing?

What if all humans are actually plugged into this simulation, and their real bodies are in pods connected to a bunch of wires?

What if humanity has just went through another cycle of 12,000 years of slavery making the same poor decisions, and it is really around the year 14,016 (in Earth time)?

What if the reason the global elite have been so relentless and it has been so difficult for people to experience OBEs and connect with Source, Gaia, and Natural Law, is because Natural Law is bent in this simulation and the global elite take advantage of that fact?

What if most of the global elite have no idea that this is a simulated, flat dome, and are clueless just like the rest of humanity, and only very few truly know?

What if the "Illuminati" are literally all just programs within this simulation, and the real ones are exploring the galaxy as I type this?

What if the real sphere planet Earth is currently healing because of humanity's abuse, and humans are kept in this simulated dome while E.T. races are figuring out what to do about the situation?

What if the global elite are so absolutely out of control, that the A.I. has asked E.T. races to incarnate in and stop this simulation from running through another 12,000 year echoed-cycle because of experimental failure?

What if every single globe you saw as a child in your classroom, every single image of the planet, every single dream you "thought" you saw Earth, were in fact the biggest, most complicated lie put on by a very select few to keep people locked into this simulation, instead of recognizing it for what it really is (that sphere planet Earth is healing and we are in a simulated version)?

What if you suspended judgment, and watched a few Flat Earth documentaries (non-religious kind) with an open mind and realize that there is some Truth in it, though the concept does not make any sense unless everything just listed was added to the mix?

What if the Matrix movies are not just metaphorical, but literal, and such movies like Tron, The Cabin in the Woods, Tomorrowland, The Truman Show, Dark City, Hunger Games, Gamer, and Inception were all created by people who were aware of the artificial simulated reality as just "postulated"?

Lastly, what if I told you that some people have actually managed to wake up in their pod bodies?

-------------

The Draco were in control for one cycle of 12,000 years, and the A.I. has had control for an "echoed" version of the same cycle, and humans have been in the dark under slavery for nearly 25,000 years.

Have some fun trying to figure this one out, because there is more Truth in this than you will allow yourself to remember. I will not argue, but you are free to question everything I just wrote and continue to believe that you, such an "awake and aware" individual, have not also been royally fooled.

Something to ponder, but does it really matter? Whether this is sphere planet Earth or a flat, simulated version of the real thing...we are STILL in slavery. We still have a lot of work to do to stop these people from continuing their agendas, and spending all of your free time bickering about such subjects could better be dedicated to other things.

[TargeT]

you are free to question everything I just wrote

You are also free to make statements and back them up with at least some sort of supporting statements, evidence or anecdotes..

This is typically considered the best way to communicate. (http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/style-and-usage/what-is-effective-writing-communication.html) (see how I did that there?)

what you wrote and someone telling me the earth is flat are pretty equatable as far as reputability goes (based on just this post, maybe you have the idea fleshed out more elsewhere?)

[aviators]

Share this here. A few good souls discussing the flat earth possibility's. Some real good points and theories (outside the box). Which you might consider to ponder.
A good example of why this movement has been so popular. Gods Speed.....
yq50aFEMyA8

[Ultima Thule]

One thing occurred to me re flat earth (mis)theorizing:
Think about flat earth and the SIZE of the machinery needed to create the tides.

UT

[aviators]

Greetings ...Mel's back on topic with this latest interview. For anyone interested.

ycNtU7430L8

[TODD & NORA]

..........

[petra]

I don't get why a simulation or illusion or hologram or whatever has to be "flat". What does flat even mean I wonder? Are words changing their meanings again? (jokingly)

[aviators]

I will be meeting up with a trusted colleague on top of the One World Trade Center (well, as far up as the public is allowed anyway...), and will take a photo that should reflect the curvature of the Earth...no need to fly out into space to prove flat Earth crap wrong.

You could even bring a freind with a Nikon P900 and capture buildings 50 - 100
miles away. Just be sure to go on a exceptionally clear day. :sun:

[Sierra]

What a load of nonsense. Again.

All you have to do is watch a ship hove into view over the horizon. It only appears at less than 12 miles away. If the planet was flat, then as long as you had a clear line of sight, you could see that ship from the other end of the ocean. Any photos of a ship seen from a few thousand miles away, taken at the seashore? Nope. Few hundred miles? Nope. How about a dinky 20 miles away? Nope.

Such photos do not exist, historically or otherwise. Now just how hard would it be to go down to the beach, and take a photo to prove the earth is flat? Even Erik Dubay fails to take a photo.

Erik Dubay is paid to be an idiot. Are we?

[Bill Ryan]

Greetings ...Mel's back on topic with this latest interview. For anyone interested.

[Mod hat on]

No-one is — who has even the smallest degree of knowledge and understanding of basic physics and astrophysics. The Ancient Greeks were doing far better than you are, here, and that was well over 2,000 years ago.

http://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

Please do NOT post this nonsense here. You mean well, but you're being highly unintelligent about all this, and you're diluting the high quality of the forum. If you want to promote this psy-op (which it is), please do it elsewhere. That's a serious request. Thanks.

:focus:

[TargeT]

What a load of nonsense. Again.

All you have to do is watch a ship hove into view over the horizon. It only appears at less than 12 miles away. If the planet was flat, then as long as you had a clear line of sight, you could see that ship from the other end of the ocean. Any photos of a ship seen from a few thousand miles away, taken at the seashore? Nope. Few hundred miles? Nope. How about a dinky 20 miles away? Nope.



I live on an Island and can confirm.. on clear days you can watch ships appear, top first.


I can see Puerto Rico as well, but not the shore line (beaches)... it's a bout 80 miles away.


The shore of the island in the background is about 9 miles away.... see the beach? (and that's a slightly elevated photo)
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/16d36dd2555abf32bc6363e7eec62ef8050a0ced/c=0-320-6144-3790&r=1280x720/local/-/media/USATODAY/GenericImages/2013/10/14/1381777896001-STC-BuckIsland4.jpg

[Ernie Nemeth]

Unbelievable, 9 pages of this. Are we really this confused? Shows how well the psi-ops is doing. Everything is now up for debate. Nothing is accepted as fact.

Maybe there really are pigs that fly, too.

[aviators]

Greetings ...Mel's back on topic with this latest interview. For anyone interested.

[Mod hat on]

No-one is — who has even the smallest degree of knowledge and understanding of basic physics and astrophysics. The Ancient Greeks were doing far better than you are, here, and that was well over 2,000 years ago.

http://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

Please do NOT post this nonsense here. You mean well, but you're being highly unintelligent about all this, and you're diluting the high quality of the forum. If you want to promote this psy-op (which it is), please do it elsewhere. That's a serious request. Thanks.

:focus:

Let's agree to disagree. Actually there are a lot of intelligent people looking at this.
Some even more intelligent than you or I. I don't have stake in this race. But I do
have a keen interest in all the evidence pointing to someing diferenent than a ball earth. Some of the evidence can be repeated an verified in experiments.
If you don't want to even look at the evidence that understandable.
IMHO Mel and Eric do a fair job expanding on why FE is "so popular" and why
some can't go there. On topic of coarse....

[Sierra]

Greetings ...Mel's back on topic with this latest interview. For anyone interested.

[Mod hat on]

No-one is — who has even the smallest degree of knowledge and understanding of basic physics and astrophysics. The Ancient Greeks were doing far better than you are, here, and that was well over 2,000 years ago.

http://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

Please do NOT post this nonsense here. You mean well, but you're being highly unintelligent about all this, and you're diluting the high quality of the forum. If you want to promote this psy-op (which it is), please do it elsewhere. That's a serious request. Thanks.

:focus:

Let's agree to disagree. Actually there are a lot of intelligent people looking at this.
Some even more intelligent than you or I. I don't have stake in this race. But I do
have a keen interest in all the evidence pointing to someing diferenent than a ball earth. Some of the evidence can be repeated an verified in experiments.
If you don't want to even look at the evidence that understandable.
IMHO Mel and Eric do a fair job expanding on why FE is "so popular" and why
some can't go there. On topic of coarse....

We don't care about popular, we care about good science.

Listen. The living room you currently occupy, belongs to Bill Ryan. Bill says please do this elsewhere. Bill says this is a serious request.

There are plenty of popular forums that would love to discuss this topic.

Closing thread.

[Bill Ryan]

.
[Mod hat on]

We've taken the decision to re-open the thread: the topic (why this notion is so prevalent now) is valid and pertinent.

aviators has been unsubscribed. We're happy to support any and all members in their personal journey (and this is one of our prime purposes); but those who are stuck, not moving, and unwilling or unable to make any personal progress, while impeding the community or (even inadvertently) damaging the forum itself, sometimes have to be left behind.

We wish him all the best, but the notions he is committed to promote are best taken elsewhere.

[Nick Matkin]

Has the re-emergence of this subject got anything to do with the publication of The Flat Earth Conspiracy by Eric Dubay in late 2014? Looks like a lot of Youtube nonsense started around that time too.

If it's a psyop, by whom and why?

Google Trends shows a huge spike in searches for "flat earth" in Jan 2016 - wonder what that was all about...?

[lake]

Google Trends shows a huge spike in searches for "flat earth" in Jan 2016 - wonder what that was all about...?

Hopefully its a spike that shows many more humans being of an opening and inquisitive mind?
But I very much doubt that is the correct opinion....sadly.

I looked at the concept of this 'place' being flat (about two years ago if I recall correctly) and as I do, I attempted to comprehend all I could from EVERY source and then make my own decision upon the matter in hand.
It would seem that for a great many centuries the minds of humans believed, or were indoctrinated to believe, that it was flat!

A plane or plain of existence.

Well I came to the conclusion that it is in fact a diversion.
I do not care if this place is round, flat, oblong, triangular, pixelated, inverted, torused, spiralled,or hemorrhoid shaped!

Although if I had to select one.......it would be hemorrhoid as this place is full of ****

just my 5 pence!

[seeker/reader]

So how do these neanderthals explain the magnetic north and south poles which are produced by the molten Fe/Ni outer core (which is a sphere) of the (spherical)Earth, which is rotating about an axis (of a sphere) to produce the magnetic poles, magnetosphere?

And what about the Coriolis effect? If the flat Earth was a flat disc spinning about a central axis at the north pole, all the Coriolis effects would be spinning the same way regardless of the location relative to the equator. Why does it spin in opposite directions in the northern and southern hemispheres? It has to be a sphere for this to happen.

[Hervé]

Interestingly, last night I went to bed with this question: WTF is "wishful thinking"?

What's the difference with "creative imagination"?

Well, "flat earthers" provided an excellent example: they are wishful THINKERS... see?

Their "thinking" is molded around a certain belief that has nothing to do with current reality or actual observable facts. Their thinking is all bent around to provide explanations, reasonings, rationales fostering a non-existent thing BECAUSE they believe it to be true.

Unfortunately, unless they snap out of it, they belong to the Toilet Flushers (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59804-My-Almost-Zero-Success-At-Awakening-People-Advice-Needed&p=683950&viewfull=1#post683950) entranced population...

Accordingly, that got me to wonder if the Flat Earth psy-op is designed to gather together individuals who are somehow stuck in some medieval past life dealing with some Grand Inquisitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Inquisitor)... among other possibilities.

[Inmortal719]

I don't really see a point in opening the thread again, there are some really really basics phenomenons that prove the earth is not flat you don't even have to be a scientist..
But yeah I agree that Aviator although repeatedly warned over kept just publishing videos and nonsense researchs about the subject..
This psy-op is probably aimed on knowing how easily can people be influenced into believing something radical and logically wrong....
It's like saying, this is truth because ''Insert some guy's name here'' says so and he's either blowing the whistle or speaking out on project ''secret name here'' he has worked on (whistle blowers are on the raise currently, people love to get to know more about conspiracy theories, no matter how significant it is)..

Posted by TargeT View Post
IMO, FE is a purposefully introduced disinformation campaign to see how gullible/leadable/trickable humans are currently... it was a psychological test to see our current level of "trickability)

Target was right since page 1... at least I had a good laught while reading it all...

[Chester]

I once flew from Curacao to Amsterdam. The flight went due northeast. I then flew to Bangkok That flight was east/southeast. I then flew to LA, California, USA. That flight was almost due east with a slight angle to the north. I then flew to Panama which was southeast. I then finished the trip by flying due east back to Curacao where I started.

Another time I flew from Costa Rica to New Jersey, USA... almost due north. We then flew almost directly over the north pole and landed in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is less than 1,000 miles away from Bangkok.

Each flight except the one from Panama to Curacao had the Flight Tracking system as well where I could follow the progress and direction of the flight on a monitor.

I would love someone to explain to me how all this was possible if the Earth is not a sphere.

[bluestflame]

Interestingly, last night I went to bed with this question: WTF is "wishful thinking"?

What's the difference with "creative imagination"?

Well, "flat earthers" provided an excellent example: they are wishful THINKERS... see?

Their "thinking" is molded around a certain belief that has nothing to do with current reality or actual observable facts. Their thinking is all bent around to provide explanations, reasonings, rationales fostering a non-existent thing BECAUSE they believe it to be true.

Unfortunately, unless they snap out of it, they belong to the Toilet Flushers (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?59804-My-Almost-Zero-Success-At-Awakening-People-Advice-Needed&p=683950&viewfull=1#post683950) entranced population...

Accordingly, that got me to wonder if the Flat Earth psy-op is designed to gather together individuals who are somehow stuck in some medieval past life dealing with some Grand Inquisitor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Inquisitor)... among other possibilities.

like they're being monitored and assessed for suggestibility ? some form of selection process

[Maia Gabrial]

Since we can't really trust NASA (never a straight answer) about things because they're too busy air brushing space photos for the public, or deceiving the public; it makes certain people wonder what the truth is. I know I do. I'm a conspiracy factist and damn proud of it.

Who here has personally seen the earth to know what it really looks like? The astronauts for sure. But they're not talking under grave penalties.
So, the rest of us have to rely on whatever NASA tells us....

Yesterday, I watched a video form NASA on a year's worth of photos of the earth. Even though they zipped through them quickly, there were quite a few same cloud formations on some days.

As to the shape of the earth, NASA's head guy said it was pear shaped.... go figure....

Maybe the complete bottom half of that pear IS Antarctica.... :becky:

[Hervé]

[...]

like they're being monitored and assessed for suggestibility ? some form of selection process

One could say yes to both since any observable data is unable to put a dent in their beliefs nor in the thinking derived from said beliefs as if the motto or meme or idea matches with something in their unconscious, triggers it and that unconscious program controls their emotions, thinking and behaviour: "That toilet gotta get flushed, dammit!"

[Maia Gabrial]

My question to everyone is this: How do you know what you're being told about ANYTHING is the truth? You have to admit that we have no way of knowing truth from deception. They can make lies so convincing. Some experts have lied. Data has gotten fudged; or it's so convoluted and confusing that it takes a long time to understand it. But what started it all was that something didn't sound right. That's why the numbers of conspiracy factists are growing.... Intelligent minds go on alert all the time....

Can anyone argue the fact that this IS the age of deception? No doubt, the CIA is definitely part of it. Mockery is one of the ways that silences questioning established thinking.

Bill said think for yourselves. Isn't that what people do when they don't go with the popular way of thinking? Maybe the statistics didn't ring true. Or the sciences failed to explain. Afterall, there are minds out there who can rival the experts.

Things are falling apart in this world of deception. And it's about time. So I'm saying, May truth prevail!

Don't you want to know what's real or not? Or do you want to follow blindly?

[Hervé]

A flat earth wouldn't have any use for latitude: it would be "Equator" everywhere, anyplace, any direction and there wouldn't be any shadow cast by any stick of any length planted perpendicular to ground surface anywhere on earth at noon:


https://hea-www.harvard.edu/ECT/Latitudes/latdiag.gif
That's that!


A summer solstice noon sun wouldn't cast any shadow from a vertical stick anywhere on earth and there wouldn't be an equivalent winter solstice in that other hemisphere... you know... like it's winter in Australia, South Africa or South America right now... well, that's only possible with earth having a spherical geometry. Not possible with a flat/planar geometry.

Basic 101 geometry (https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene).

That's all.

[DeDukshyn]

If it's a psyop, by whom and why?



Testing. Testing methods, and getting responses - data to feedback into fine tuning their control mechanisms / algorithms. All prep for the implementation of global control down to the personal level.

[TargeT]

If it's a psyop, by whom and why?



Testing. Testing methods, and getting responses - data to feedback into fine tuning their control mechanisms / algorithms. All prep for the implementation of global control down to the personal level.

gullibility check.

[PurpleLama]

Nope, not checking gullibility, it's purpose is to discredit. You know those crazy conspiracy theorists all believe the earth is flat, what a laugh!

[DeDukshyn]

Nope, not checking gullibility, it's purpose is to discredit. You know those crazy conspiracy theorists all believe the earth is flat, what a laugh!

Everything they do has more than one purpose ... we've only touched on two. :)

[Cidersomerset]

I had a look back a couple pages and just noticed this vid
has been posted before , if you feel this post should be deleted
I will.......

The version below has got graphics to go with it....


This vid started playing after another I was listening to in the background
I was going to stop it after a few minutes , but Eric Dubay sounded so
passionate in his discussion with Mel I left it running I have not been
listening to it 100 % as I was doing something else. But thought I'd
post it in case anyone interested as Mel on Veritas is an experienced
alternate interviewer. Also I noticed this thread is still going

My personal view is the world is a sphere and I just posted
a thread on Kepler finding 104 new exo -planets so I'm in
the conventional camp......
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92028-Kepler-telescope-discovers-crop-of-104-new-Exo-planets-4-look-promising-18-7-16
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Flat Earth is the Most Important Truth

8Wznf3k57fA

Published on 18 Jul 2016


Eric Dubay says the greatest lie and most successful cover-up in history,
NASA and Freemasonry's biggest secret, is that we live on a plane, not a
planet; that Earth is the flat, stationary center of the universe. Eric is an
American living in Thailand where he teaches Yoga and Wing Chun part-
time while exposing the New World Order full-time. He is the author of five
books and is the president of the International Flat Earth Research Society.

From Mel Fabregas: Let me begin this interview by stating that I have no
attachment to the flat earth. I have no attachment to the oblate spheroid,
and even to the sphere. If our home is any of these, so be it. I wouldn't be
surprised of any. What I continue to be surprised and suspicious of are the
people who continue attacking those who simply ask questions. I recently
attended a conference that deals with the most open minded topics you
could possibly imagine. However, when it comes to the flat earth topic, it
was a no no. Look, I can't say I blame people for thinking this is the most
absurd topic under the sun, or the firmament, rather, but you, open minded
people who discuss aliens, UFOs, reptilians who rule the world, Bigfoot, and
the rest of it, why do you continue telling people to stop looking into the flat
earth? Those of you who study the pyramids and ancient civilizations, you
venerate these ancient ones, and rightfully so, and some of these very ancient
ones believed the earth was flat. Why do you then continue looking into their
achievements if the notion of a flat earth is so absurd? Shouldn't that discredit
them too? And those of you who continue writing to me saying the ancient ones
knew they lived on a sphere, how did they know? Perhaps they had advanced
technology that allowed seeing the skies above. Just because you see sphere
above you doesn't prove you are standing on one. You can still play pool on a
flat table and basketball on a flat court. Perhaps the psyop is questioning those
who question the true shape of our plane(t).

For more information about our Flat Earth, please visit:
http://www.AtlanteanConspiracy.com
http://www.IFERS.ace.st

[TODD & NORA]

..........

[Mike Gorman]

I have discovered that 'Black' is actually 'White' - the tyranny of established knowledge has decreed that black is an absence of light, anything black is not reflecting any of the frequencies from the electromagnetic spectrum, when in actual fact it is absorbing ALL frequencies and it is in fact 'White' but we cannot see it with our organic eyes, the human retina simply registers the colour as black. Now you might say I am deluded, a crackpot, but isn't this what every new discovery is labelled, every disruption of the paradigm is laughed at and derided by the 'authorities'.

Black is White, and the sooner you accept that you have been misled and conditioned to think it is 'black' all your life - school is used to dispense the lies and deception, we accept this as 'truth'. Black is white, and the tyranny of established science, the wittering of the chattering classes cannot change this fundamental truth - you have not researched this and you do not question what you receive, you passively consider Black as being 'black' and you will not even entertain that it could possibly be 'White'. I am appalled and disgusted with my peers, and the narrow minded apathy with which people simply accept these axioms of knowledge without question!
Black is white, and this is the liberating truth, join me and the enlightened numbers who have received this liberating insight and leave behind the sheep and somnambulist hordes who persist with the established ignorance-discover for yourself that knowledge is relative and flexible, there is no absolute truth, merely the deception of power brokers who seek to gain your belief and trust so they might put into motion their plans and schemes for their world domination -Black is White!
(Irony Alert - I know Americans often have difficulty with irony, it is a cultural thing, literal mindedness is heavily promoted)

[Cidersomerset]

David posted this on his headline page today and as he is on his world wide tour
he has been posted various vids I presume he feels appropriate that particular
day, this is a segment from one of his previous tours.

Why have I posted here ? well it is very interesting presentation with plenty of
content and research , but he touches on the electric universe and if the Solar
system is not what we think it is , does make you think imo. Something to watch if
you feel in the mood. If not ignore this post , its only a suggestion and something
I just watched, as Leonardo said everything is connected and I see it everywhere.


The Saturn Matrix - David Icke

YVpZMh1PaeA

Published on 23 Jul 2016

All David's Books Now Available Here http://www.DavidIckeStore.com
Saturn, It's Symbols & How It Creates This Fake Reality
The Saturn Matrix & Saturn Symbolism

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?65361-The-Beauty-Majesty-of-SATURN.......Viewpoint-Saturn-snapped-as-Earth-smiled&p=1084131#post1084131

[TargeT]

I have discovered that 'Black' is actually 'White' - the tyranny of established knowledge has decreed that black is an absence of light, anything black is not reflecting any of the frequencies from the electromagnetic spectrum, when in actual fact it is absorbing ALL frequencies and it is in fact 'White' but we cannot see it with our organic eyes, the human retina simply registers the colour as black. Now you might say I am deluded, a crackpot, but isn't this what every new discovery is labelled, every disruption of the paradigm is laughed at and derided by the 'authorities'.

Black is White, and the sooner you accept that you have been misled and conditioned to think it is 'black' all your life - school is used to dispense the lies and deception, we accept this as 'truth'. Black is white, and the tyranny of established science, the wittering of the chattering classes cannot change this fundamental truth - you have not researched this and you do not question what you receive, you passively consider Black as being 'black' and you will not even entertain that it could possibly be 'White'. I am appalled and disgusted with my peers, and the narrow minded apathy with which people simply accept these axioms of knowledge without question!
Black is white, and this is the liberating truth, join me and the enlightened numbers who have received this liberating insight and leave behind the sheep and somnambulist hordes who persist with the established ignorance-discover for yourself that knowledge is relative and flexible, there is no absolute truth, merely the deception of power brokers who seek to gain your belief and trust so they might put into motion their plans and schemes for their world domination -Black is White!
(Irony Alert - I know Americans often have difficulty with irony, it is a cultural thing, literal mindedness is heavily promoted)

literal mindedness is a bad thing?

so you are saying that white absorbs all light, and black reflects it.. that white is the taker and black is the "giver" ?

Label it how you will, but in my mind white is alpha, the one, the singularity.. it contains all so it reflects anything projected on it, as it already contains all. Black however is the entropic, the taker, it contains nothing, so it takes anything that comes its way.

I reject your conclusions based on this.

I agree with the over all premise however, that much is not as we have been told.

[Bill Ryan]

I have discovered that 'Black' is actually 'White' - the tyranny of established knowledge has decreed that black is an absence of light, anything black is not reflecting any of the frequencies from the electromagnetic spectrum, when in actual fact it is absorbing ALL frequencies and it is in fact 'White' but we cannot see it with our organic eyes, the human retina simply registers the colour as black. Now you might say I am deluded, a crackpot, but isn't this what every new discovery is labelled, every disruption of the paradigm is laughed at and derided by the 'authorities'.

Black is White, and the sooner you accept that you have been misled and conditioned to think it is 'black' all your life - school is used to dispense the lies and deception, we accept this as 'truth'. Black is white, and the tyranny of established science, the wittering of the chattering classes cannot change this fundamental truth - you have not researched this and you do not question what you receive, you passively consider Black as being 'black' and you will not even entertain that it could possibly be 'White'. I am appalled and disgusted with my peers, and the narrow minded apathy with which people simply accept these axioms of knowledge without question!
Black is white, and this is the liberating truth, join me and the enlightened numbers who have received this liberating insight and leave behind the sheep and somnambulist hordes who persist with the established ignorance-discover for yourself that knowledge is relative and flexible, there is no absolute truth, merely the deception of power brokers who seek to gain your belief and trust so they might put into motion their plans and schemes for their world domination -Black is White!
(Irony Alert - I know Americans often have difficulty with irony, it is a cultural thing, literal mindedness is heavily promoted)

I reject your conclusions based on this.



Psst! I think GalaxyHorse's post was heavy, deadpan, satire. :)

[Mike Gorman]

I have discovered that 'Black' is actually 'White' - the tyranny of established knowledge has decreed that black is an absence of light, anything black is not reflecting any of the frequencies from the electromagnetic spectrum, when in actual fact it is absorbing ALL frequencies and it is in fact 'White' but we cannot see it with our organic eyes, the human retina simply registers the colour as black. Now you might say I am deluded, a crackpot, but isn't this what every new discovery is labelled, every disruption of the paradigm is laughed at and derided by the 'authorities'.

Black is White, and the sooner you accept that you have been misled and conditioned to think it is 'black' all your life - school is used to dispense the lies and deception, we accept this as 'truth'. Black is white, and the tyranny of established science, the wittering of the chattering classes cannot change this fundamental truth - you have not researched this and you do not question what you receive, you passively consider Black as being 'black' and you will not even entertain that it could possibly be 'White'. I am appalled and disgusted with my peers, and the narrow minded apathy with which people simply accept these axioms of knowledge without question!
Black is white, and this is the liberating truth, join me and the enlightened numbers who have received this liberating insight and leave behind the sheep and somnambulist hordes who persist with the established ignorance-discover for yourself that knowledge is relative and flexible, there is no absolute truth, merely the deception of power brokers who seek to gain your belief and trust so they might put into motion their plans and schemes for their world domination -Black is White!
(Irony Alert - I know Americans often have difficulty with irony, it is a cultural thing, literal mindedness is heavily promoted)

I reject your conclusions based on this.



Psst! I think GalaxyHorse's post was heavy, deadpan, satire. :)

;) Thanks Bill - you will have to forgive my indulgent little exercise, it occurs to me that we have arrived at a time where knowledge has become so individualistic and 'relative' that people have lost their sense of position and have lost faith in deterministic reality, which leaves them open to deception and manipulation. But determinism is still 'real', it is simply that it should not force us into accepting the Dogma of science, science is undergoing a shift of massive proportions.

[HaveBlue]

Which CIA director said in the 60s or early 70s 'We will know we have succeeded when everything the public believes is wrong'?

Richard Helms, Bill Colby or Bill Casey? Without me going back to search it escapes me this minute, but it did happen and was said by one of them. I'll bet my house on that!




Mod reply from Bill (you get to keep your house :) ): it was Bill Casey. The detailed source is here:
http://quora.com/Did-William-Casey-CIA-Director-really-say-Well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-American-public-believes-is-false (http://quora.com/Did-William-Casey-CIA-Director-really-say-Well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-American-public-believes-is-false)

[TargeT]

Psst! I think GalaxyHorse's post was heavy, deadpan, satire. :)

yep, that went WAY over my head.. haha

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2014/5-21/jBgSZhHHKq-1.png

[ThePythonicCow]

Miles Mathis, in his latest paper (http://mileswmathis.com/eust.pdf) analyzing Eustace Mullins, proposes that the Flat Earth hype is an intelligence operation, designed to discredit those who criticize NASA. Eustace Mullins was author of The Secrets of the Federal Reserve (http://amazon.com/dp/0979917654).

Here's how it works, quoting Miles:

Again, here is the progression: first, tell the truth; second, publish a book and obtain a following; third, do something totally asinine like promote Hitler in the US. This will make everyone with any sense think you are crazy. They will revisit those truths you told them to start with, dismissing them as the rantings of a crazy person. That it what it is to be an Anti.

There are many Antis working right now, literally hundreds of them on Youtube alone. That is what the whole Flat Earth thing is about. Have you noticed you can't research anything on Youtube without being assaulted with the Flat Earth promotion? Well, they are doing exactly the same thing Mullins did. One, tell you the truth about NASA, which is that it has faked a large amount of its publicity in the past. Two, they list all the lies of NASA. Three, they start talking about the Flat Earth, saying that is the main thing NASA is hiding from you. So they have just blackwashed themselves in plain sight.

The Flat Earth promotion is just like the Hitler promotion: they know no one with any sense will buy it. But they are hoping you will link Flat Earth promotion to criticism of NASA. They want you to think that anyone who criticizes NASA or the mainstream story in any way is a Flat Earth nut. They are hoping you wash both babies out with the same bathwater, and that is what many people are doing. NASA itself dismisses many good questions as coming from Flat Earthers. It is a great way to slander the opposition without having to address its points.

[KiwiElf]

Makes me wonder if any flat-earthers have ever climbed a high mountain (doesn't need to be too high), or been in an airplane... (off the ground, that is)? :ROFL:

Then, there's GPS... how do they account for that working??? (Last time I checked, GPS requires satellites - in orbit - to provide the information (The "G" bit stands for Global, as in, shaped like a globe :sun:

(Prior to GPS being invented, sophisticated aircraft of the time, ie Concorde, ships, submarines and spacecraft, used (and still do) an INS (Inertial Navigation System),


An inertial navigation system (INS) is a navigation aid that uses a computer, motion sensors (accelerometers) and rotation sensors (gyroscopes) to continuously calculate via dead reckoning the position, orientation, and velocity (direction and speed of movement) of a moving object without the need for external references.[1] It is used on vehicles such as ships, aircraft, submarines, guided missiles, and spacecraft. Other terms used to refer to inertial navigation systems or closely related devices include inertial guidance system, inertial instrument, inertial measurement units (IMU) and many other variations. Older INS systems generally used an inertial platform as their mounting point to the vehicle, and the terms are sometimes considered synonymous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation_system

...in either case, they are both designed to work on a globe/sphere for navigation around the Earth: (in space is a different matter) ;)

[bluestflame]

yes is about the two for one special , discrediting valid info cos of the nutter tag

[Cartomancer]

Many tenets of the Muslim faith state that the earth is a globe. Many "Flat Earther's" i notice are conservative Christians. Muslims pray towards Mecca in the correct direction using a model of the earth that is a sphere. The Mihrab or altar in each Mosque is oriented towards Mecca at the correct angle on the globe. There are "directions to Mecca" calculators on the internet one can look up for the correct direction to pray. So the "flat earth" theory is kind of an insult to Muslims among its many other purposes and misdirection. I have watched the "best" flat earth argument videos and all of them show a great degree of ignorance and distortion of facts and reality.

Astronomers collect data using a horizontal plane. This alone is one of the things that is misunderstood and twisted to match a model that shows the flat earth. I have debated many flat earth proponents and they usually resort to the overuse of insulting and ignorant meme's as their main weapon or response. They are also personally abusive. The conspiracy would just involve too many people and resources to maintain through time. I like that they are thinking outside of the box but I think there is a reason they are promoting this idea that goes beyond any real belief. There are very few people who have studied maps and globes enough to really understand how they are properly used or work. If you believe in the flat earth you should support your beliefs by understanding how a globe works so you can criticize it. None of them I have spoken to can explain any of that yet they will tell you that you are wrong based on watching videos on youtube that are grossly inaccurate and distorted regurgitation of other people's bad ideas.

[Baby Steps]

i was listening to a long video rant about a totally unconnected subject, all material that i would be prepared to defend, and 3/4 through, she just throws in a statement about how we all know that the earth is flat, then returns to to her subject. so beware of this, important to listen to the whole video before sharing.

[Agape]

Makes me wonder if any flat-earthers have ever climbed a high mountain (doesn't need to be too high), or been in an airplane... (off the ground, that is)? :ROFL:



No matter what you do , it keeps looking round but it's still a pancake of timespace rolling eternally out and like every pancake it has two FLIP sides .
There are people living on the other side of our dimensional pancake we can't see and who can't see us, theoretically at least .
What some try to describe as inner earth is essentially but a feature of my new pancake theory :bigsmile:

It's where the cheese had gone when the cat did not eat it .


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3251776/Was-Einstein-wrong-Astronomers-spend-11-years-hunting-gravitational-waves-nothing.html


;)

[crosby]

Perhaps some people accept their lives as being part of an experiment - as though they may be part of something being examined in a petri dish. The flat earth theory would fit well with this. When I was in 7th grade (a long time ago) my science teacher pulled a jar [filled with water and sediment] from one of his scientific cupboards, shook it up and asked the class, " ......what if we are sitting in a jar in a closet and every now and then someone pulls us out and shakes us up?" This was back in the mid-seventies, so this particular teacher was pretty progressive for that time frame - he was fired for his interpretations.

There is really no true way to determine who is right and who is wrong with this theory. I am of the impression that we are an experiment in a petri dish. So, the thought that the earth is flat would not come as any big surprise to me what-so-ever. However, I do believe that there is also more involved with that theory.....I do believe that there is much more involved with this particular distraction......
warmest,
crosby

[Alberto e Daniela]

The objective is that people start thinking that there is no way to get to the truth, :confused: because convincing (ok, for the non experts) evidence is produced from all sides.

The Truth can no longer be hidden, so they must try to obfuscate it, with smoke and mirrors.

People get confused and divided, and waste their time arguing, and ultimately get blocked in their development of Consciousness.

[Atlas]

Flat Earth threads here on Avalon seem to get escorted to the back room to die. [...] Pay close attention to the words Leonardo uses.
Food for thought. Gods speed...

KLnNa5KwkJo
Aviators, I miss you, come back soon!

[abmqa]

I rejected the Flat Earth theory without much thought when I first viewed a video putting forth such a ludicrous idea. Although the video was well made and the presenter articulate. I know from experience as I tracked foreign satellites from launch to orbit, to subsequent orbits when the satellite, through the science of orbital dynamics, came back into view of the site as determined by the characteristics of its orbit. This is hard science, that can and will predict where and when, within seconds the satellite is at any given time.

Sooo good for me right? Not really... I failed to see the bigger picture...I just shrugged it off, but failed to question why put forth such an easily disproved conspiracy theory? what is the bigger picture? what community are they targeting... NASA conspiracy theorists come to mind. NASA is extremely shady imho, however Flat Earth?? I don't get it!

[norman]

I rejected the Flat Earth theory without much thought when I first viewed a video putting forth such a ludicrous idea. Although the video was well made and the presenter articulate. I know from experience as I tracked foreign satellites from launch to orbit, to subsequent orbits when the satellite, through the science of orbital dynamics, came back into view of the site as determined by the characteristics of its orbit. This is hard science, that can and will predict where and when, within seconds the satellite is at any given time.

Sooo good for me right? Not really... I failed to see the bigger picture...I just shrugged it off, but failed to question why put forth such an easily disproved conspiracy theory? what is the bigger picture? what community are they targeting... NASA conspiracy theorists come to mind. NASA is extremely shady imho, however Flat Earth?? I don't get it!

You got the right question.

I think the answer is in the title. FLAT EARTH !. It's got mileage in it if they invest enough. Don't be too surprised if a hit job movie or documentary comes out of it eventually. They may be disappointed by the low uptake and abandon it too.

Until this craze began, "Flat Earthers" was a universal derogatory term that every one understood well enough. It's got weight to it if successfully injected into the bigger contemporary picture. The difference, and it's a big one, is that this Flat Earth thing is very specifically people who argue that the world really is flat. That's a kind of virus that attacks the very principle that we all have the right to make up our own minds about what's real and what's fake. The fact that it's Flat Earth implies, to me, that it's a deliberate attempt to take down the principle of thinking things through for ourselves and reaching our own conclusions ( and sharing them with others ).

[Cidersomerset]

As far as I'm concerned the Earth is a sphere on the 3 D level and the other
moons and planets are similar.

But there are other theories and realities , David speculates answering a
question from a subscriber in the latest vid posted on his u'tube channel
its only his opinion so do not 'loose the plot' if you disagree with him...:sun:


Flat Earth, What David Icke Really Said In His Only Video On The Subject

dWIbdSIrigU

Published on 10 Dec 2016

==============================================

The Richie Allen Show on Davidicke.com: NASA Scientist 'The Universe
Is A Digital Hologram & May Have Been Designed By Extraterrestrials!'

By David on 9 December 2016 GMT

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94881-David-Icke-Educating-a-mainstream-journalist-Med-Monnica-Sepulveda-Pizzagate-vid-cast.&p=1119257&viewfull=1#post1119257

[Cidersomerset]

This may not have anything to do with flat earth , but it does with reality imo....
( and I did not know where to post it , without creating another thread ).....


The universe is made up of frequencies which probably creates everything we
perceive ? So flicking thru the web sites I just saw this item ,which shows for me
how everything is connected......

Sound waves used for deep brain surgery - BBC News

s5vmzLcrn_8

Published on 10 Dec 2016
Doctors in London have used sound waves to successfully operate deep inside the brain.
They treated a man from Cornwall who suffered from uncontrollable tremors in his right
hand. Selwyn Lucas, who is 52, can now hold his hand steady and said he felt "fantastic".

[Nick Matkin]

Yes, this is an interesting development. But SOUND waves are being used. Not electromagnetic waves of any frequency.

So this technique would not work outside Earth's atmosphere, unless the traducers are touching the skull and the sound waves travel though the skull to the brain.

(Note: Sound waves are mechanical vibrations that travel through solid liquids and gasses, but not in a vacuum. Electromagnetic waves need no medium through which to travel - unless you consider the æther, which is another can of worms for another thread!)

[Franro]

As much as i believe that this earth is round, i think it is futile to try and convince FE believers. And francly what's the harm, if anyone thinks this earth is flat. I mean my life Will not change drastically because of someone elses believe system is different from mine. So for me this is what it is.

[araucaria]

Why so popular? Why is ketchup so popular? Because you can serve it up with anything and everything. The FE meme is the multipurpose smear for low-class trolls. You believe this or that plausible theory, you are as bad as the flat earthers, probably one of them. This is the only mainstream coverage the subject gets. It is so outrageous because it has to replace other solutions that are getting very old and very tired (the JFK assassination plot, 911 was an inside job...). These didn’t work because they were advertising inconvenient truths and have been found out. They are now reduced to equating good research with palpable nonsense. It won’t work either, not because FE is true but because it is false.

You have the intermediate case of the ‘fake’ moon landings. That has not been working, not on account of its truth or falsehood, but because people have discovered that either way the whole business has been surrounded by layer upon layer of deception and secrecy. On the one hand, the Cold War US had every reason to fake a landing if it couldn’t actually pull it off: the motive is clear. On the other, we have still not been told why they could get to the Moon using a computer with only say 128 kilobytes of memory, several orders of magnitude less than today’s most useless trinkets, and never wanted to go back.

[Cidersomerset]

Edit....per # below

Sentinel satellite launched to picture Planet Earth

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39183353

[Bill Ryan]

I just saw this article and was going to post it on the more recent thread but this one came up posting for ref....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QakHb1vblx8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QakHb1vblx8)



A quick note (and a serious one, too) — it's absolutely not important to post things like that. We're not trying to convince anyone of any facts, and with Flat Earthers that's all but impossible anyway.

The really interesting question is as per the thread title, which is why on earth (so to speak) the dumb, insane idea, contravening everything the very smart ancients knew and understood more than 2000 years ago, has gained so much popularity simply because any dunderhead these days can make and post a YouTube video.

:focus:

[Nick Matkin]

Not sure if the apparent ebbing away of scientific rationalism is something to be concerned about or not.

The internet is giving a voice to all manner of ideas and beliefs that have always been there. The Flat Earth nonsense just seems to be going through a renaissance, although the fact it's getting so much traction is somewhat unsettling!

It reminds me of a quote from a friend along the lines: "Before the internet arrived, I always assumed everyone had at least a basic understanding of the world around us."

[justanotheralien]

Makes me wonder if any flat-earthers have ever climbed a high mountain (doesn't need to be too high), or been in an airplane... (off the ground, that is)? :ROFL:
Actually, I recently got confronted with two flat earth snacks I can't seem to get debunked that easily. One is from "Beyond Horizons - home of the current distant site world record (https://beyondhorizons.eu/2016/08/03/pic-de-finestrelles-pic-gaspard-ecrins-443-km/)". This website is not even about flat earth, it's just all about photographing real FAR! The world record apparently is a whopping 270 miles (443 kilometers)!
These folks seem serious, and unaware of the implications so far, and they've got more pictures of mountains that should have been well down-under, so to speak..

About being in an airplane, as you say; here's a short film by Jason Kirby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMFOtW-FagA) you've got to watch.
Help me out please. Anyone?!

[Atlas]

In 2008, the Lunar Orbiter Image Recovery Project (LOIRP) released this high-resolution version of a Lunar Orbiter 1 photo of Earth from the moon, which was taken on Aug. 23, 1966:

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/57bc8cccce38f252008b8654-1200/we-know-this-only-because-since-the-1950s-nations-all-around-the-world-have-launched-people-and-robots-there.jpg

The Hackers Who Recovered NASA’s Lost Lunar Photos (https://www.wired.com/2014/04/lost-lunar-photos-recovered-by-great-feats-of-hackerdom-developed-at-a-mcdonalds/)

[justanotheralien]

What a great image that is, Atlas! It's almost as if you stand on the edge of the backside of the moon. Very sharp edge! Very well hacked :waving:

It is of course things like this which makes the Flat Earth idea roll as it does (if someone was still wondering). Because NASA, seemingly, has had to glue together (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBAznZwqVg) their images all the way up to our days.

Another detail that makes the flat earth topic roll as it does, is of course Obama, and even NASA folks telling right in front of the camera that "they're working on finally getting beyond earths orbit". (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmoiwjXepHM)

So yes Houston we sort of got a problem, and in fact it's not being created by flat earthers all together (to say the least).

[Atlas]

https://img.ifcdn.com/images/1bace8d9419438d139c3c05bf5ecc53b5b3f7732aeb1ab94840e81592e071067_1.gif
ZRd2TV1dB8o

[justanotheralien]

Amazing, some very sharp edges there :clapping: And not a lot of glue needed to get å good shot of planet earth in the old days, either. Not as much glue as in our days anyway. But still hacked.
I have this creepy feeling some people have had a lot of fun while spoon feeding us this..

[DeDukshyn]

Makes me wonder if any flat-earthers have ever climbed a high mountain (doesn't need to be too high), or been in an airplane... (off the ground, that is)? :ROFL:
Actually, I recently got confronted with two flat earth snacks I can't seem to get debunked that easily. One is from "Beyond Horizons - home of the current distant site world record (https://beyondhorizons.eu/2016/08/03/pic-de-finestrelles-pic-gaspard-ecrins-443-km/)". This website is not even about flat earth, it's just all about photographing real FAR! The world record apparently is a whopping 270 miles (443 kilometers)!
These folks seem serious, and unaware of the implications so far, and they've got more pictures of mountains that should have been well down-under, so to speak..

...

Light refraction within the atmosphere ... debunked. :)

:focus:

[justanotheralien]

Light refraction within the atmosphere ... debunked. :) :focus:

Hi DeDukshyn, yes refraction can sometimes explain some rather fuzzy observations here and there, now and then. Probably UFO's, plastic bags and angels as well. Flying oil tankers, cruise ships, wales, diving passenger planes and what not - all right in front of crystal clear depicted mountain ranges (https://beyondhorizons.eu/2015/01/26/mallorca-montserrat-215-km/) of course :clapping: ..

In short; I quoted from your post because you seem to not have climbed any mountains, nor have been "off the ground" lately, and that those who have did not correct what you implied. This, in turn, could have implications for momentum the "flat earth" spirit seems to gather and enjoys all over the place, and that you all seem to ponder how come.

I have to run. Have a good day/night where ever you are.

Bill I do understand your concern and also the pointing of fingers throughout threads like these. I email or PM ya a couple of musings later.

Martin :thumbsup:

[justanotheralien]

any dunderhead these days can make and post a YouTube video.
Here you go Bill, a flat earth parody. Finishes off with the national anthem so take off your hat. Enjoy :Party:

Emergency Announcement from the GEA (Globe Enforcement Agency) (https://youtu.be/08aN45agYLg)

[LEGOWehrmacht]

I think the purpose of Flat Earth theory is to be an aspect of a "Flank attack" on obscuring the truth.
Alex Jones is, trying to guard the front side of things. The loudmouth tour guide at the front gate trying to hog everyone's attention to mislead... Then when you understand things get far wilder than "Corruption in the upper echelons of society" there's Flat Earth Theory at the back to "Booby-trap" and discredit everything from that angle. Definite candidate for a security services psy-op.