Misinterpretation about secret (or not so secret anymore) societies

[Asyloth]

I've been thinking a lot about this "throat cut" movement of the freemasons as they are in a meeting (lately).

I've got the feeling that we've judged these symbols a little fast without really knowing the logic that these people may have or follow.

This symbolic movement could have more than just one meaning, it could also be a way to say that failure is not an option, that if ever they should fail they know they'd be dead in some way, for example.

That gesture could have more than just one meaning attached to it.

I'm having doubts about the supposed "bad intentions" of secret societies, at least some of them. My grand oncle, who has forged his company beginning with nothing, he's had an heart attack several years ago, was a member of the Lion's club on the german side of belgium (he was married with a woman of the german community of Belgium). And on its last years, he had even become the leader of the group.
And even though I didn't know him that well since I didn't see him that much (he was living more than an hour away by car which is considered far away in Belgium), excepted at special family occasion, it would be hard for me to believe that he was a bad person, he has been around since I was born and I never saw him doing anything wrong, he was more of the "make everybody laugh" person.

So all this to say that we might have gone a little too quick judging the secret societies, it's probably more complicated than what we outsiders may have thought so far.

[Foxie Loxie]

I am of the opinion that there might have been "good" people doing "good" deeds in all the secret societies, but it seems quite clear that there IS a Ruling Elite who do know the Behind the Scenes ultimate purpose of said society. Most of us just go along day to day never even thinking about such a question until something happens in our lives that gives us a big jolt & we DO start to question everything. It appears your Grand Uncle was one of the above, doing "good" for others.

[Mark]

A difficult topic, Asyloth. Especially in these environs. It is my thought that, as society has evolved the form of pyramidal society we are familiar with, each level of aggregation has evolved as well. 4,000 years ago, the regional dominance of the Kemetians and Africa, India and South Asia, then the Greeks, the Romans, the Islamists and Southwest Asia, then the Christians and Europe proper up until today. At all times, society was divided between the masses, separated from the elite by various classes that processed goods and manifest the normative functioning of societal mechanics. At the top, employing the leisure time afforded by opulence, were the Artists, the Philosophers, the Spiritualists. Concentrated in such a way as the majority of people were too busy living to concentrate upon these higher and more rarified aspects of life and self-development.

Fast forward to today. We still possess a pyramidal society. The masses though, are now the world populations in the South, the East, busy toiling on a day to day basis to provide comfort to the elite populations of the West, no matter their geographic location. The world is the agricultural and mechanical "field", while the metropoles of the West and East are the diffused centers of material wealth accretion and culture. We have, in effect, become a world-city.

The Secret Societies can be seen as playing the role of Spiritualists in the societal hierarchy. Those with the understanding of cultural and spiritual continuity. As such, they are concerned with the manifest destiny not of a certain peoples, but of a certain spiritual form of thought and practice. Considering the origins and evolution of spiritual systems the world across, the synthesis and holism displayed by discrete religious practices speaking to an underlying unity, pinpointing the source of this unity as some fundamental spiritual reality accessible by those who put in the work to access it, generations of prophets, medicine people, seers, channelers, priests, demonologists, priestesses have contributed to the scenario that the secret societies and their goals embody.

Seemingly heartless and Machiavellian, life is that. These societies, viewed from the outside, represent that. Cold, deliberate action, guiding society in often inscrutable ways to what, to many, are undesirable ends.

It is a moral conundrum to consider that their ways may be correct. That the future they envision is as inevitable as they claim it is.

But each must make their choice.

[Asyloth]

Thank you for your wisdom both of you (I'm Gregory by the way).

[raff]

If you read William Schnoebelen book: Lucifer Dethroned, you will see that he was a 33rd degree mason who spilled the beans. And he says that freemasonry becomes luciferianism once you reach the 33rd degree (he was a satinist) so to the average mason they would be totally unaware of the sinister and evil mindset of their society (as your aware doing charity and good deeds is suggested in the fraternity.) No one doubts the lower orders intent but one must question this fraternal society if at its roots lies the filth and wickedness that is satanism.

[shaberon]

Firstly, from ancient times, there were things in common to all kinds of skilled workers: guilds and plays. They did not actually work all that much; 30% or so of the time was some kind of saint's day, and there were different kinds of celebrations such as plays and puppet shows, which would tell stories usually with a moral involved. So, you would for example have a carpenters' guild, and they would dress in a uniform and go tell stories and these would be traditionally passed down the generations.

The difference about the masons' guild--who made all your castles and cathedrals--was that to get work, they had to travel long distances to these big projects that typically lasted a number of years. So they also had a kind of system, where you could journey in a foreign land and maybe not know the language, but when you greeted the master mason with a certain kind of handshake, he instantly knew that you were in fact a mason, and what your skill level was. This is Craft Masonry and it has only four degrees.

Once the industrial revolution started to significantly change the way society functioned, the guild opened its lodge doors to persons who were not masons. Hence, Free Masonry. You could go in and learn about their costumes and symbols and stories that had been gathered through the international wanderings. Now at this time, there was another international body who put their hands in everything, and were given to socio-political manipulation of the most extreme kind: The Society of Jesus (Jesuits). Now of course they are very clever, and sat around and wrote up the higher degrees telling people they were Knights Templar and all of that. Being rich and powerful, it wasn't long before they had pretty much kicked Craft Masonry into the bin, and spread these new rites of their own invention all over Europe.

That being said, to this day, it does not follow that all high ranked masons are Jesuits or obey agenda of that nature. This is a propaganda largely from the American Anti-Masonic Party (early 1800s). Lodges, in and of themselves, are not political or under a central authority that makes baby killers out of grown men at knife point. Granted, there may be some, or many, that operate like this. But when we find some, or many, athletes using steroids, do we shut down an entire sport? No. Place the guilt where it lies, on those who commit actual trespass, not around the possibility that they could. To be fair, even with what I stated above, I should say that most Jesuits are wonderful people who dedicate their lives to humanitarian or scientific purposes, although as an organization...it does have central authority, and operations most of us would find distasteful.

I'm going to let it slip...the real Masonic aspiration, is peace.

As to the overall gamut of secret societies, it ranges from wannabes and charlatans, to honest, curious people, to the most vicious and despicable despots. Most of the politicians are in something, but most of the politicians are incompetent, bungling idiots who probably never changed a tire and can only lie for money. There are definitely groups of the rich and powerful protecting their own selfish interests, but these are as much public and professional groups as well as secret ones.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/index.html

Trevor Mckeown has put resources on the web that respond to many of the attacks on Masonry.

[Innocent Warrior]

I've been thinking a lot about this "throat cut" movement of the freemasons...

Hi Gregory.

I came across this book, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry last night, it cleared up a lot of the confusion I had surrounding Freemasonry, it describes what true Masons are. Below is a couple of exerpts -

"The true Mason realizes that the work of the Mystery Schools in the world is of an inclusive rather than an exclusive nature, and that the only lodge which is broad enough to express his ideals is one whose dome is the heavens, whose pillars are the corners of creation, whose checker-board floor is composed of the crossing currents of human emotion and whose altar is the human heart."

"In Freemasonry is concealed the mystery of creation, the answer to the problem of existence, and the path the student must tread in order to join those who are really the living powers behind the thrones of modern national and international affairs. The true student realizes most of all that the taking of degrees does not make a man a Mason. A Mason is not appointed; he is evolved and he must realize that the position he holds in the exoteric lodge means nothing compared to his position in the spiritual lodge of life. He must forever discard the idea that he can be told or instructed in the sacred Mysteries or that his being a member of an organization improves him in any way. He must realize that his duty is to build and evolve the sacred teachings in his own being: that nothing but his own purified being can unlock the door to the sealed libraries of human consciousness, and that his Masonic rites must eternally be speculative until he makes them operative by living the life of the mystic Mason. His karmic responsibilities increase with his opportunities. Those who are surrounded with knowledge and opportunity for self-improvement and make nothing of these opportunities are the lazy workmen who will be spiritually, if not physically, cast out of the temple of the king. The Masonic order is not a mere social organization, but is composed of all those who have banded themselves together to learn and apply the principles of mysticism and the occult rites. They are (or should be) philosophers, sages and sober-minded individuals who have dedicated themselves upon the Masonic altar and vowed by all they hold dear that the world shall be better, wiser, and happier because they have lived. Those who enter these mystic rites and pass between the pillars seeking either prestige or commercial advantage are blasphemers, and while in this world we may count them as successful, they are the cosmic failures who have barred themselves out from the true rite whose keynote is unselfishness and whose workers have renounced the things of earth."

It's an easy and quick read, fifty something pages, if you're interested in reading it, a free, full PDF (minus the illustrations) can be found here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9462-Interesting-Free-Books-in-PDF&p=1057748&viewfull=1#post1057748).