Transgenderism: Is it Mental Illness?

[bettye198]

We are all inundated with this cultural phenomenon. This year, the military recognizes transgenders as normal. I have noted where education is going with this for our young in the school system. However, in this video, more challenges are presented with sex reassignment surgery we all should be well aware of if we know a friend or loved one that is considering this step.

My burning question is, Is this another form of population control?

I have always believed that when one plays with the hormonal/neurotransmitter structure of the biologic, it is severely dangerous. I learned a few things from this 15 min video.

aDAU3SPYFsA

[Citizen No2]

My feeling is that this whole movement is part of the Transhumanism road that is eventually going to lead to the interface of tech and human biology...... a-la the Terminator. It will be sold to us as a great benefit to mankind, and there will be benefits, such is the way with these steps, but you just know that the ultimate use will be insidious. This step of 'gender re-alignment' is conditioning us to accept as normal the practice of gene manipulation in the lab.

I in no way detract or judge those that, from birth it seems, know that they are born into the wrong sex. But I have to question the way in which this is rammed down our throats' by just about every facet of the media.


Regards.

[bettye198]

I remember it used to be called "cross dressing" that still allowed the person to carry on their usual heterosexual relationship. Cross dressing, transvestite as we used to know the term, now has advanced into embracing the gender identity completely. My concern is the surgical intervention which Medical Doctors have huge disagreement about as it reformulates the gender apparatus and it is alarmingly bringing forth unhappiness and unsuccess and suicide attempts. So the barbaric approach not really working. A desperate attempt at creative identity.

[lunaflare]

Agreed, some worthy points in this video which includes the rate of suicides post gender reassignment surgery. "Mental Illness", however, is a very condemning and judgemental label. How painful and agonizing it is to experience Life outside the comforts of social acceptance and convention. I recently watched an interview with Melissa Etheridge who, in essence, believes that accepting and loving oneself is the key. She commented that she lives with a male core in a female body. Throughout her life she has no doubt received ongoing support and affirmation from the LGBT community (as well as her fan base). Support and acceptance is necessary for any soul to survive in this world. I don't think surgery is the solution...
It is curious MS media supports Transgenderism and this, in and of itself, requires us to critically analyse the issue...

[kirolak]

Even in the Vedas there are references to the 3 genders, so it's nothing new. . . . to each his/her/shim own. . . . .

[DNA]

I don't agree with gender reassignment at all.

First off I can't believe folks are trusting the medical industry with a procedure this invasive if not absolutely necessary due to life threatening conditions.

[Kryztian]

What a distorted and dishonest look at the transgender phenomena. Quite saddening that anyone would take this seriously. A few points:

1) The video assumes that "transgender" refers exclusively to people who undergo surgery and hormone therapy to change their identity, when in reality, many of the people who "change their sex" do so mostly by changing their hair style, clothing, makeup, their name, how they affect their voice and movements, and by changing the gender of pronouns to which they are referred.

2) The transgender transformation is compared here to (1) a woman who stared at the sun to go blind (2) someone who identified as a cat crawled and sat in the window and stared at birds and (3) someone who decided to act like a six year old child. From this comparison, they decided that transgenderism was a mental illness. What clearly distinguished transgender people from these other cases, is that transgender people can live healthy, productive lives, care for others, have a career, etc. In many cases their change in identity, and accepting their identity, helped them to leave depression and anxiety behind and move into a happier, more productive place.

3) According to this video, the field of Psychiatry (represented by one professor at John's Hopkins) considers transgenderism to be destructive and unsuccessful, while it is the main stream media and politicians like Obama who are trying to force transgenderism on us. In reality, Transgender people and their therapists have been fighting for the right to be accepted legally and socially for over 60 years. Many of them have availed them self to the psychiatric profession and both they and their counselors have found that they are happier when they live and accept and new gender identity and that the happiness is multiplied when a society accepts it as well. This video references a Swedish report that shows a higher suicide among transgender people, and fails to mention how much social oppression and sometimes violence these people experience during their gender identity change.

Many cultures of the world have dealt quite successfully with individuals who feel they have a different gender identity, most notably, Native Americans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit), who grow up knowing that their society has places and roles for them if they don't accept many of the societal precepts assigned to their gender identity, and that this acceptance doesn't need for them to surgically alter themselves.

[TigaHawk]

We are all inundated with this cultural phenomenon. This year, the military recognizes transgenders as normal. I have noted where education is going with this for our young in the school system. However, in this video, more challenges are presented with sex reassignment surgery we all should be well aware of if we know a friend or loved one that is considering this step.

My burning question is, Is this another form of population control?

I have always believed that when one plays with the hormonal/neurotransmitter structure of the biologic, it is severely dangerous. I learned a few things from this 15 min video.

aDAU3SPYFsA


No. You heterosexuals are doing just fine with rampant breeding then disregarding your young.

So many kids in foster homes. All those at an extremely high risk of abuse and just plane disappearing.

Please continue to try your hardest to block LGBT parents from being able to go adopt these children when all they want is a child to love, care for and see grow up just like any other person that wants kids.

Please continue to completely ignore other factors like social engineering - blatant sexual advertising that noone seems to care about (but dont you dare breast feed in public! you may give people the idea breasts are not just for sex!) chemicals in our food, water, air, household items and EM waves - all constantly bombarding our bodies with no well documented science of what each individual thing does to us long term - let alone all of them combined.




I am going to politely request that you cease posting new threads on this topic and keep it contained to one thread. This is the second thread on the same subject. Both of which come across as blatantly hostile - Almost fell into that one in the other thread after getting extreamly angry with Armor's reply (and you praising him for it - which is also sickening) after he confirmed he's part of the problem by stating that women should not do things because he believes they incapable - and are nothing more than good breeding stock that should keep themselves attractive to find a suitable mate by a certain age.

While i do not agree with your views at all - i dont think your posts should be removed however i request you stop trying to prevoke people sensitive to the subject by relating LGBT to a mental illness - you further try to demean them with another post. So it is blatantly obvious to me you are not here posting this to actually discuss the topic and learn from it - you're doing it for more selfish and malicious reasons.

[TigaHawk]

Many cultures of the world have dealt quite successfully with individuals who feel they have a different gender identity, most notably, Native Americans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit), who grow up knowing that their society has places and roles for them if they don't accept many of the societal precepts assigned to their gender identity, and that this acceptance doesn't need for them to surgically alter themselves.

THIS!!!

So much emphasis is put on making sure everyone conforms to a stereotype. People try so hard to fit into another if they dont conform to one.

God forbid you be happy with who you are - every part of yourself! Instead people are bullied, tormented, become depressed, withdrawn because they are discriminated against for not fitting into the box. IE a boy can not cry when upset or hurt - that is not manly. A girl can not want to be a mechanic because it's seen that it's a men's job and dirty - women are meant to confirm to other stereotypical expectations - like being petite and pretty and doing "girly" things like being a receptionist to bring their superior male manager's coffee and food on demand. Know how many PA's / Receptionists are men? Ever seen a man try to apply for that job? They get laughed at. A man without a job and bills to pay does not care for the work - only that they are capable of doing the task required and are paid for it.


Stereotypes are so deeply ingrained in todays society that there are even people here that seem to genuinely believe that women can not do everything that men can.

If we stopped putting so much effort into attacking others that dont fit into stereotypical boxes and praised individuality / our differences - we would all be a lot happier and the world would be more peaceful.

TLDR - Stereotypes and Gender expectations are for dinosaurs. Please hurry up and go extinct. You're dragging us down.

[Foxie Loxie]

First time I've heard of 3 genders. Would the third one just be a "whole" person?

[Shannon]

The video in the op is 100% garbage.


People can and will flourish when they can be themselves and live how they choose. Transgendered aren't mentally ill.


Sheesh. ....

[robinr1]

haha....your post is 1000 times worse than his. congrats.





We are all inundated with this cultural phenomenon. This year, the military recognizes transgenders as normal. I have noted where education is going with this for our young in the school system. However, in this video, more challenges are presented with sex reassignment surgery we all should be well aware of if we know a friend or loved one that is considering this step.

My burning question is, Is this another form of population control?

I have always believed that when one plays with the hormonal/neurotransmitter structure of the biologic, it is severely dangerous. I learned a few things from this 15 min video.

aDAU3SPYFsA


No. You heterosexuals are doing just fine with rampant breeding then disregarding your young.

So many kids in foster homes. All those at an extremely high risk of abuse and just plane disappearing.

Please continue to try your hardest to block LGBT parents from being able to go adopt these children when all they want is a child to love, care for and see grow up just like any other person that wants kids.

Please continue to completely ignore other factors like social engineering - blatant sexual advertising that noone seems to care about (but dont you dare breast feed in public! you may give people the idea breasts are not just for sex!) chemicals in our food, water, air, household items and EM waves - all constantly bombarding our bodies with no well documented science of what each individual thing does to us long term - let alone all of them combined.




I am going to politely request that you cease posting new threads on this topic and keep it contained to one thread. This is the second thread on the same subject. Both of which come across as blatantly hostile - Almost fell into that one in the other thread after getting extreamly angry with Armor's reply (and you praising him for it - which is also sickening) after he confirmed he's part of the problem by stating that women should not do things because he believes they incapable - and are nothing more than good breeding stock that should keep themselves attractive to find a suitable mate by a certain age.

While i do not agree with your views at all - i dont think your posts should be removed however i request you stop trying to prevoke people sensitive to the subject by relating LGBT to a mental illness - you further try to demean them with another post. So it is blatantly obvious to me you are not here posting this to actually discuss the topic and learn from it - you're doing it for more selfish and malicious reasons.

[raff]

I have read in Robert Shapiro's book titled: the explorer race of the third sex and his description doesn't align so much as transgenderism. The third sex supposedly comes in with a unique energy that will harmonize the other 2 sexes (also bringing a lot of heart energy as well) but my guess is that transgenderism relates to something else of which I don't have enough info to hazard a guess. But it would be interesting to get a general consensus of those who have crossed the divide to see how they feel now. If successful then the issue would be about the gender and not perhaps some other issue. Although I'm not sure what the soul perspective and reasoning would be for this challenge/experience.

[Sierra]

I do know someone who has transgendered. We are both deaf, and I met her on the AOL Deaf Bulletin Boards (early form of a forum). FYI: there is a genetic link between deafness and homosexuality/transgender identity, a higher rate of incidence in the Deaf/deaf community. She attended Gaulladet University, which is where she figured out she wanted to be a boy. She was VERY clear she did not want to be a gay woman, she wanted to be a man.

She was very suicidal, had zero sex drive, etc. It took a long time begging and coaxing, to find out what was wrong in chat online. She came out to San Francisco for a month long visit before she told me what was up. Eventually she went through the process (a lot of counseling to be sure being a different sex is the real issue), and the difference is night and day. He is happy, contented, living in the same area with his family, who support and love him.

This is not an experience I'd wish on anyone, very difficult waters to navigate, very difficult to find acceptance and safety in our culture. What it means spiritually to the person, what it means to the medical community, what it means to the PTB, I have no idea, and I would not presume to know.

I have not watched the video, but from the comments, it sounds like either fear porn or haters gonna hate.

I just saw a person about to die of unhappiness, no longer about to die of unhappiness.

[lastlegs]

In the late 60's my marriage was falling apart and we started seeing a young male therapist in San Francisco who was about 28 to my 21. My husband was really angry about my not keeping my promise to obey. At 19, I had no idea what that would entail. At that time both homosexuality and a name I cannot remember for women who were not content with the role assigned to them by society were considered mentally ill.

This young man told me I had a man's mind in a woman's body. They were just starting to do these reassessments. I actually considered all that. I am very pragmatic. I was like--- I change my sex to male and I am a five foot two male--how effective and how successful will I be the way society views men? I decided to just deal with my mind. I have worked with some of these people in LA in my 60s. The reality is the reality of how these people will look etc. is rarely discussed. An ugly man will be an even uglier woman. Only those who start young and work at everything adjust well. An operation on a bad life with bad choices will not suddenly become a good life.

[TigaHawk]

haha....your post is 1000 times worse than his. congrats


Which is exactly why i requested it stay to a single thread. This whole thread is designed to press buttons and it's done that brilliantly. Care to input anything other than a useless laugh? Thought not.



hahaha that's right we're acting like children right now :) :bearhug:


**Apologies for the above - being immature & angry - At work currently. I will sit down when in the privacy of my own home and write an explanation as to why people whom act and treat LGBT things like a disease or illness can cause so much damage to the people they think they are trying to help. Been there. Done that. Peace is in the realization that you are not a stereotype that needs to conform and this is just a meatbag - what reproductive organs you're born with dont mean *** at the end of the day.

[Soup]

one can only be 'inundated' by a cultural 'phenomenon' when submerged to the gills in a tiny pond of one's choosing.

i always admired the goldfish i won at the fair...they always jumped out of the dish i put them in ...ok, admittedly they did die... but but

point is... your soul is genderless... you surely have to accept that...

you all do talk and think too much lol

be a goldfish...be whatever you want... but mental illness is culturally assured to the HEs and SHEs

divisionists lol

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3950/15723925211_e56ff072dc_o.jpg

[OMG]

All is permissible but not all is beneficial...

Someone may want something really bad, or do something because they can, or because it makes them feel "better", etc, but does that make it right or wise?

Natural Law is Natural Law.

Forgo it at your own risk...

[onawah]

I attended some classes in the Bay Area years ago that were given by a group of psychics.
Among the subjects that came up were reincarnation, androgeny and homosexuality.
It was generally agreed upon by the psychics (and it seems very likely true to me) that as androgynous souls who have come here (whether willingly or not) we must experience this reality on Earth (though it may be different elsewhere) as both genders, through a series of many incarnations.
But many souls may have a preference for one gender or the other, and so they will choose to incarnate as their chosen gender again and again until the time comes inevitably, when their Higher Self steps in and sees to it that the soul begins to incarnate as their least favorite gender, uncomfortable as that may be.
This can seem like an unnatural ordeal to some, and the changeover may take many lifetimes to achieve successfully, before the soul adjusts, physically, mentally and emotionally.
Electing to go so far as to have transgender surgery is a manifestation of resistance to a kind of natural law, as OMG said, yet it is certainly permissible karmically.
It is, if nothing else, a sign that that soul is simply not yet willing to take on the characteristics of the unfavorite gender, but it will be a learning experience, in any case.
Things are no doubt less complicated on worlds where the androgynous nature of the soul is more accepted.
But part of 3D experiencing is very much about duality, and that can certainly create a lot of complications.
Though we can also look at it as an interesting experience, of course!

[DNA]

I attended some classes in the Bay Area years ago that were given by a group of psychics.
Among the subjects that came up were reincarnation, androgeny and homosexuality.
It was generally agreed upon by the psychics (and it seems very likely true to me) that as androgynous souls who have come here (whether willingly or not) we must experience this reality on Earth (though it may be different elsewhere) as both genders, through a series of many incarnations.
But many souls may have a preference for one gender or the other, and so they will choose to incarnate as their chosen gender again and again until the time comes inevitably, when their Higher Self steps in and sees to it that the soul begins to incarnate as their least favorite gender, uncomfortable as that may be.
This can seem like an unnatural ordeal to some, and the changeover may take many lifetimes to achieve successfully, before the soul adjusts, physically, mentally and emotionally.
Electing to go so far as to have transgender surgery is a manifestation of resistance to a kind of natural law, as OMG said, yet it is certainly permissible karmically.
It is, if nothing else, a sign that that soul is simply not yet willing to take on the characteristics of the unfavorite gender, but it will be a learning experience, in any case.
Things are no doubt less complicated on worlds where the androgynous nature of the soul is more accepted.
But part of 3D experiencing is very much about duality, and that can certainly create a lot of complications.
Though we can also look at it as an interesting experience, of course!

I started to write something similar to this, and everytime I did, I scratched it out of fear of offending someone.

Kudos to you Onawah, you voiced my thoughts far better than I could have.

[ZooLife]

I have high hopes that a critical mass is occurring in this world that does not label and cause harm by such misguided ideas like those presented by OP.

Oddly enough, views like those in the OP actually resemble mental illness more then those they are suggesting to have it.

What is that called? Oh, that's right, projecting. Projecting is a form of blindness, a speck in the eye, so to speak.


All is permissible but not all is beneficial...

Pfft That is spiritual double speak, plain as day.




Someone may want something really bad, or do something because they can, or because it makes them feel "better", etc, but does that make it right or wise?

Doesn't make it anything at all. It is what it is, not right or wrong, not wise or unwise.



Natural Law is Natural Law.


The 'natural law' referenced here can kiss my little white caboose.

[betoobig]

I see people here very confused!
There are males with vagina and females with pennis!
As simple as that.
And there is a Huge difference between gender and sexual tendency.
Please stop thinking in the black and white programing you have. Lots of grey areas in our lifes.
Transgender is not an illness, the only thing ill is our society.
I dont even like the term transgender becouse this people usually have their gender very clear but they want to fit in society that is why they choose surgery. Now most of this people who are accepted since childhood dont want surgery. I know what i am talking about.
We are pushing for people to understand and not judgeing. What a wonderfull world this will be.
If there are now more people trans is just becouse now they are seen. This is always been around, like Kirolak said.
The real minipulation has been accepting duality, girl or boy!
Come on Avalonians open your hearts a bit more!
Much love

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I think the title of the thread is offensive. Just the doubt is offensive, at least uncomfortable for a place like Avalon

[betoobig]

Check this out please.
To ask if this kid has mental illness is really ill, an illness created by our society or cult-ure
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7B5HU0gUG-Y[/YOTUBE]

¤=[Post Update]=¤

[youtube]7B5HU0gUG-Y
Sorry

[kirolak]

Betoobig is absolutely correct; all this gender-bias is the real mental illness & bodily identification of the lowest kind.

[seah]

It is, if nothing else, a sign that that soul is simply not yet willing to take on the characteristics of the unfavorite gender, but it will be a learning experience, in any case.

I don't agree. A soul couldn't care less about gender. Sexuality is fluid for some because of where they are on the evolution scale, but gender identification is a whole different issue.

[Agape]

I'd give likewise all thumbs up to the 'humanity in transition' because of all phenomena .. after all , only change is permanent and that substantially includes our biological make up.
Not only this 'genomic make up' is unstable by its very nature and can and is being influenced both by nature and nurture forcing the process of 'transitioning' from one quantum state to another ,
commonly understood as evolution of new species most of whom aren't so new as varied and adapted to their specific environments ,
it also keeps 'evolving itself' and seeking new forms of expression .

Trying to stop this process for mankind as a whole is impossible in my opinion while societies controlling systems almost always seem to aspire for 'steady state' , 'golden model' that would accommodate all in slow paced and less dynamic , not-so-evolving society and present their respective 'offers' how to sort out social problems as 'status quod' , algorithm they think of as workable and final .

From religions to science labs to political meetings , them people do not live the 'great questions' and scientific curiosity more than they live by convictions , convents, convinced by their respective societies of being 'on the right track' they seem to represent the golden ratio of normalcy , a peak of human evolution ( I've read such conclusions of one scientist only few years back who suggested humans have 'no way to evolve beyond what they're now' :bigsmile: )

There may be more than 3 genders in future .

But, and on the other hand the whole topic does come with strong warning for any onlooker and 'inquisition' alike .

There has to be biological marker , predisposition for you allowing such trans-ition in my opinion.

How many girls did not once dream of being a boy or vice versa . But does that alone make you transgender ? Not so.
I can't imagine 'wishing it' alone would ( or should ) provide sufficient reason for such physical , hormonal and mental challenge .

A man or a woman 'simply insisting' on being someone else may well be a mental case , simple as that .

In case of transgender individuals whether they artificially enhance and complete the trans- process , their body tells them otherwise . It means there are biological markers that are prone and responsible for the possibility .

I can understand this from couple of different angles .. one would be the 'ET me' and having certain physical-and-psychological predispositions that are close to 'the other shore' . It's not something you can 'make up for' , and in this case, it'd be hardly desirable for anyone , anyway .

Another angle would be homo- and hetero-sexuality as examples of biological predispositions that can be perhaps cultivated to certain degree but otherwise , they're entirely yours .
The same way the idea of same gender 'union' makes a heterosexual individual sick up ( I apologise for saying so ) if projected unto them , the exact opposite is most probably true for the other party and there's no 'therapy; that would convince you of otherwise .

I can well imagine ..and it's not just imagination.. it's more from what I've suffered for my subtle ET revelations over past decade that all such attempts for 'revertive therapy' make an individual feel desperately self-destructive at the end .


:facepalm:

[Ted]

I don't hate anyone, and feel people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including the LGBT community. The issue I have with the whole LBGT movement is being told that I have to accept a concept without question, otherwise I'm denounced as a hater or homophobe. The hostility displayed by those on this thread defending transgenderism is a typical example of this.
There seems to be a double standard here. It seems like it's perfectly alright for anyone in the LGBT category to bash and hate on those who disagree with their lifestyle, yet this is exactly what they are complaining about.
Why is it so unreasonable to discuss the issue here? Disagreement does not equate to hate and intolerance! The only intolerance I have is for people trying to shove an idea down my throat whether I like it or not.
Open debate is healthy and necessary for people to see both sides of an issue.

[Sierra]

I don't hate anyone, and feel people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including the LGBT community. The issue I have with the whole LBGT movement is being told that I have to accept a concept without question, otherwise I'm denounced as a hater or homophobe. The hostility displayed by those on this thread defending transgenderism is a typical example of this.
There seems to be a double standard here. It seems like it's perfectly alright for anyone in the LGBT category to bash and hate on those who disagree with their lifestyle, yet this is exactly what they are complaining about.
Why is it so unreasonable to discuss the issue here? Disagreement does not equate to hate and intolerance! The only intolerance I have is for people trying to shove an idea down my throat whether I like it or not.
Open debate is healthy and necessary for people to see both sides of an issue.

I think the objections center around the video in the opening post. It attempts to shove the idea down our throats that the LGBT community is insane, for being who they are.

It was not a reasonable way to start a genuine discussion, promoting hatred and intolerance, condemning entire categories of people as insane.

[ZooLife]

This isn't really about people, the choices people make or what influences their choices. It's about the false conception regarding those choices.

If one changes from a lemon to a carrot, turnip to grape, or stays an asparagus makes no difference whatsoever. What makes a difference is the misconception of what it all means.

Hierarchy of all kinds is an illusion thats own utility is to give the ego a false sense of 'better than'.

[mahalall]

I've worked with him and now work with her.
We both smile out how dissatisfaction is the same in different colors.

[Ted]

I think the objections center around the video in the opening post. It attempts to shove the idea down our throats that the LGBT community is insane, for being who they are.

It was not a reasonable way to start a genuine discussion, promoting hatred and intolerance, condemning entire categories of people as insane.
A mental disorder is not necessarily insanity, and the video only expresses an opinion. Jumping to the conclusion that an opinion equates to condemnation, hatred and intolerance is exactly what I am talking about.
Like many other people, I suffer from a "mental disorder" called depression. That doesn't make me crazy (although my wife might argue the point). People don't like to be around me when I become sullen and withdrawn, and I don't blame them. Nevertheless, I don't go around assuming people are condemning me and hating me just because they don't like the way I am. If I see a video about what a drag it is to live with a depressed person, I don't get offended, and I don't demand compassion and tolerance.
I believe in the freedom to be who I am, which also means I believe in the right of others to be who they are. The right to free speech means being tolerant of all opinions, regardless whether we agree with them or not.
If someone doesn't care for the lifestyle of LGBT folks, they have every right to express that opinion. Do you think that by calling them names and accusing them of hatred and intolerance it's going to win them over to your side? That type of response just reinforces their conviction.
Anyway, I see intolerance and hatred for people who are intolerant and hateful as being the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

[ZooLife]

Anyway, I see intolerance and hatred for people who are intolerant and hateful as being the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

Don't you just hate that?

Where is your tolerance?

[Sierra]

I think the objections center around the video in the opening post. It attempts to shove the idea down our throats that the LGBT community is insane, for being who they are.

It was not a reasonable way to start a genuine discussion, promoting hatred and intolerance, condemning entire categories of people as insane.
A mental disorder is not necessarily insanity, and the video only expresses an opinion. Jumping to the conclusion that an opinion equates to condemnation, hatred and intolerance is exactly what I am talking about.
Like many other people, I suffer from a "mental disorder" called depression. That doesn't make me crazy (although my wife might argue the point). People don't like to be around me when I become sullen and withdrawn, and I don't blame them. Nevertheless, I don't go around assuming people are condemning me and hating me just because they don't like the way I am. If I see a video about what a drag it is to live with a depressed person, I don't get offended, and I don't demand compassion and tolerance.
I believe in the freedom to be who I am, which also means I believe in the right of others to be who they are. The right to free speech means being tolerant of all opinions, regardless whether we agree with them or not.
If someone doesn't care for the lifestyle of LGBT folks, they have every right to express that opinion. Do you think that by calling them names and accusing them of hatred and intolerance it's going to win them over to your side? That type of response just reinforces their conviction.
Anyway, I see intolerance and hatred for people who are intolerant and hateful as being the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

Well... If you think the video was a reasonable way to start an open minded discussion, that is your perogative. :)

[Ted]

Don't you just hate that?

Where is your tolerance?I think, like many people, that you're confusing disagreement with intolerance.

[ZooLife]

Don't you just hate that?

Where is your tolerance?I think, like many people, that you're confusing disagreement with intolerance.

LOL

http://i.imgur.com/ker2OWq.gif

[TargeT]

The video in the op is 100% garbage.


People can and will flourish when they can be themselves and live how they choose. Transgendered aren't mentally ill.


Sheesh. ....


even physical attraction is quite widely ranged between the polarized sexes, there is no one type of desirable person (though generally "physically fit" is the common denominator, with a few exceptions: "chubby chasers" and the like...) the fact that anyone would try to impose their idea of how ANYTHING is "suppose" to be is just abhorrent IMO.

Let people be.... & clean up your own yard before you go commenting on other peoples yards...







Don't you just hate that?

Where is your tolerance?I think, like many people, that you're confusing disagreement with intolerance.

LOL



Uhh.. err... my brain hurts...

[ZooLife]

clean up your own yard before you go commenting on other peoples yards...[/B]


Target's yard service, the no service service. We offer unparalleled customer service, so good you will not even notice. :bigsmile:

[Shannon]

I think the objections center around the video in the opening post. It attempts to shove the idea down our throats that the LGBT community is insane, for being who they are.

It was not a reasonable way to start a genuine discussion, promoting hatred and intolerance, condemning entire categories of people as insane.
A mental disorder is not necessarily insanity, and the video only expresses an opinion. Jumping to the conclusion that an opinion equates to condemnation, hatred and intolerance is exactly what I am talking about.
Like many other people, I suffer from a "mental disorder" called depression. That doesn't make me crazy (although my wife might argue the point). People don't like to be around me when I become sullen and withdrawn, and I don't blame them. Nevertheless, I don't go around assuming people are condemning me and hating me just because they don't like the way I am. If I see a video about what a drag it is to live with a depressed person, I don't get offended, and I don't demand compassion and tolerance.
I believe in the freedom to be who I am, which also means I believe in the right of others to be who they are. The right to free speech means being tolerant of all opinions, regardless whether we agree with them or not.
If someone doesn't care for the lifestyle of LGBT folks, they have every right to express that opinion. Do you think that by calling them names and accusing them of hatred and intolerance it's going to win them over to your side? That type of response just reinforces their conviction.
Anyway, I see intolerance and hatred for people who are intolerant and hateful as being the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

Yeah but Ted, your depression doesn't define you does it? I feel like that's not a good comparison.

Imo the video was trash. There's been more than one thread devoted to issues with trans peeps, so there's going to be defenders.

[Agape]

Getting cynical about your depression , does it help ?

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/Aikatwo/Deities/IMG_0420.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/Aikatwo/media/Deities/IMG_0420.jpg.html)

Is Purity a Gender or is it a Secret ?

Is purity poverty or is it the richness ?

Is purity more like Paul , Mike or Rich :bigsmile:

Is purity like Cloud to be worshipped ?

Is purity the secretary of all terrorists and ultimate conspirator ?

Is it not , biological factor after all ...

is purity to be shot to in quest of free energy

is it to be abandoned in the name of vanity and artificial life

i say no ..


that's how they call me the existence of resistance .


:Angel::raining:

[Ted]

Yeah but Ted, your depression doesn't define you does it? I feel like that's not a good comparison.
Nothing defines me unless I choose to be defined by it. The point was more to say that a mental disorder is not by definition insanity.


Imo the video was trash. There's been more than one thread devoted to issues with trans peeps, so there's going to be defenders.It's not the defending that bothers me, or even the quality of the video. The question of whether LBGT traits are genetic, learned, a product of environment or whatever is legitimate. Having it shouted down as beyond questioning is what bothers me.
Just for arguments sake, what if there was a pill that would turn any LBGT person straight? How would something like that be received by the LGBT community?

[Daozen]

The Wachowskis are transgender, and they are some of the most advanced souls on the planet. They've awoken billions of people.

I do however think that the surgical techniques to help people change gender are not fully there yet, and I would advise anyone thinking of being operated on to wait 10-20 years.

0.2

[bettye198]

Thank you members. The whole idea of this thread was to start a discussion. Those of you who felt offended personally, may not have realized I was quoting the headlines of the video, not my own belief. I always plan to stay in the gray area of this, but as a medical professional ethically and holistically, I found sex reassignment dangerous to the human body. There will be those who will always feel their nerves on edge when we talk about the elephant in the room- and it is everywhere but that is precisely what brings people together to know each others minds and feelings on the subject. I have no annoyance or anger over what Tigahawk said, I can only see at her station of life, she actively will protect and defend. With experience we grow all of us and I myself think differently than when I was 30 yrs old. I have worked with transgendered nurses when it was something of a secret thing. I even watch Cait Jenner's show in hopes of broadening my understanding. Yet the mutilation via surgery is something that deeply disturbs simply because the transgender has to take buckloads of hormones and this is what has brought on the unhappiness and suicidal tendencies in so many searching for a desperate way to live their life.

So, again, my thoughts were not in alignment with mental illness but this is what modern society has tagged them with.

[bluestflame]

it's the agenda behind it driving it that concerns me

[Frenchy]

It is, if nothing else, a sign that that soul is simply not yet willing to take on the characteristics of the unfavorite gender, but it will be a learning experience, in any case.

I don't agree. A soul couldn't care less about gender. Sexuality is fluid for some because of where they are on the evolution scale, but gender identification is a whole different issue.

I agre Seah, for the reason that, being here, in whichever gender, would probably be a direction from 'the Creator', and I believe that, EVEN if a Soul remembers past lives, we, who are humble, in the face of 'The Creator', accept each experience, to move forward... Should one be aggrieved, if one is re-incarnated as a female hamster, when one remembered his Romeo days as a hot-blooded Male Hu Man ! ! ?

imho, the whole Surgical, MK aspects, are tools or 'toys' of TPTB, to satisfy there peversions, in much the same way as using humans for food, etc...

My sympathy for individuals, who, ( ex. ? Brendan Manning > Chelsea... (?) ) ; after falling foul of TPTB, might well have been 'got at'. Dark forces at work, said the queen, to the butler.... !

[Dennis Leahy]

Think of gender as a continuum, a spectral aspect, not a binary, polar aspect. It is a false dichotomy to think of 2 genders when there are an unlimited number of degrees of expressing gender. Instead of seeing gender as "which of the two boxes gets checked on the birth certificate" think of someone's gender as a point on a continuous line between male and female. There are extremely masculine men, and extremely feminine men - and all points in between. There are extremely feminine women, and extremely masculine women - and all points in between. These are real aspects of personality, not something imagined, not something consciously chosen. Men and women BOTH have both male and female hormones in our bodies, in varying ratios. We don't get to choose our hormonal makeup and brain wiring. What you do get to consciously choose is how you present yourself to the world.

If society's pressures do mark the position on the continuum line for most people, it is to squeeze most people out from any point between the extremes, towards the extremes. That describes mental illness - all those people who are really somewhere between the extremes (we ALL are between the extremes) pretending to be at one extreme end of the scale. I suspect that a lot of the animosity towards transgender people is the insanity of those who think they are 100% "female" or "male" and therefore think others should also adopt the delusion (mental illness) of pretending that there is no continuum. So, a better question is: Transphobia - is it mental illness?

[TigaHawk]

Thank you members. The whole idea of this thread was to start a discussion. Those of you who felt offended personally, may not have realized I was quoting the headlines of the video, not my own belief. I always plan to stay in the gray area of this, but as a medical professional ethically and holistically, I found sex reassignment dangerous to the human body. There will be those who will always feel their nerves on edge when we talk about the elephant in the room- and it is everywhere but that is precisely what brings people together to know each others minds and feelings on the subject. I have no annoyance or anger over what Tigahawk said, I can only see at her station of life, she actively will protect and defend. With experience we grow all of us and I myself think differently than when I was 30 yrs old. I have worked with transgendered nurses when it was something of a secret thing. I even watch Cait Jenner's show in hopes of broadening my understanding. Yet the mutilation via surgery is something that deeply disturbs simply because the transgender has to take buckloads of hormones and this is what has brought on the unhappiness and suicidal tendencies in so many searching for a desperate way to live their life.

So, again, my thoughts were not in alignment with mental illness but this is what modern society has tagged them with.

Thank you for explaining that and yes i did take offence as it did seem like you were agreeing with the video that was linked rather than pushing for a discussion on the topic.


I also agree with you - I do not see the point in having ones body changed as i see it as just that. This thing we are in that allows us to exist and move about in this world. Personally i see my breasts as useless. I will never have children (by choice) for personal reasons therefor their use to provide nourishment to a newborn child is of no use to me. Bra's are uncomfortable as crap and they are an annoyance and very much uncomfortable and they tend to flap around a bit if you move too quickly without one on which is again uncomfortable. It's still a taboo not to wear one. I dislike my gender because of the way it is treated - and the way others of the same gender i feel degrade themselves to become the object that society see's a female as and i despise people that agree with how society deems how a woman should look, act and think.

While i honestly believe i would have been far better off being born as a male - the idea of changing ones body to me will not fix anything.

I was forcefully medicated with the contraceptive pill when i was a teenager - funnily enough shortly after i had told my mother i was attracted to women and she threw me out and told me not to come back until it was out of my system. nowhere to go - that was that and i was let back in. I was put on the pill with extra progesterone because my mother had decided that i had a hormone imbalance. As a child again i hated everything girly and wanted to do the things the boys could do without being questioned - like climb trees. play soccer. ninja turtles and transformers. i would get into fights and could not be friends with girls because they never did or talked about anything that interested me.

Who had the issue there? A girl trying to live and do things that interested her - or the mother trying to force her child to become something that SHE wanted her to be?

I took those pills daily - without the 7day break for over 10 years. I took myself off them about 4 years ago now and am still trying to adjust to menstruating. God help you if you're around me at PMS time - which may have been evident by the writing of my post.

Acted "as expected" for a good 10-15 years. hated having sex but did so as it was an expected part of being in a relationship - and being in a relationship an expected part of being an adult female.

After finally deciding enough was enough i went on to explore myself. Still found that i cant cope with women (sorry ladies) as you make no sense to m whatsoever. A bit more time and i realized i was trying to conform to a stereotype to fit in purely because of that physical attraction to women.

I am dating a man - sex is still "meh" due to no physical attraction - but there is very much emotional attraction. We don't fight. We talk about everything and are very much comfortable with one another in all aspects.

So i understand those who are not comfortable in their own bodies. I understand being raised and learning to hate things because you are told to and you do it based off learned behavior.


There is a definite mental illness there but it is not with the person. it is with society itself. how we view and treat one another. The issue is definitely not bound to gender - it applies to everything. Tho i can definitely see comparisons in treatment of people with things that have happend in the past (such as the prejudice against people of color) and just wish everyone would chill and accept people as people and respect them for who they are - without trying to shape them into something THEY themselves want.

I still believe the strong need for people to change their physical gender stems from the conclusion that they would be treated the way they feel comfortable (ie being treated like a girl - when you feel you should be treated like a boy) because of these stereotypes. The hostility to gender neutral treatment is a push to keep the stereotypes strong and enforced on everyone. If one stereotype is abolished - others will fall with it.

We cant have the whole world treat each other with respect and appreciate individuality now... can we?

I am me. I am happy with myself just how i am - Regardless of what form this meatbag is. Pitty it took so much to realize this - but at the same time if I did not go through the learning process - how would i know this? :)

Again - the stereotypes / treatment is everywhere. People will step over others and hurt others to achieve status - to be treated like the rich and wealthy. It apples to EVERYTHING in our life but appears to be manifesting the most with physical gender issues.

[Kindred]

Transgender is something that defines those who are a particular reproductive gender (male/female) and choose to alter their physical appearance through exogenous hormone administration and/or surgical intervention. An individual who only dresses as the opposite gender is termed as a transvestite. However, neither of these actions can change the true reproductive sex of the individual as they were conceived and born/manifested into this reality.

What is not discussed, although it is alluded to in several posts, is that of a person with dual or mixed gender. This 'condition', is actually termed "Intersex". However, this is an "umbrella term", much like 'hermaphrodite', and is used to lump together a number of conditions and syndromes under one general heading for the benefit of medical practitioners and laymen alike. The true medical terms for such conditions is 'sexual ambiguity', or 'ambiguous genitalia'.

While I don't like 'Wikipedia' all that much due to it's 'selective' nature, the article on Intersex is fairly complete.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

However, there is a section where it states that "naturally occurring true hermaphroditism in humans is unknown". This is not correct.

Just the same, many intersex children have been subjected to some Horrific, Illegal and morally repugnant medical interventions (mutilations), and there have even been many 'normal' children who have been mutilated in the name of 'medical progress', and in some cases like in South Africa, these medical actions have been used to harvest the testes of male babies for superstitious medicinal purposes.

In particular, those children who exhibit obvious intersex characteristics are almost Immediately surgically altered (mutilated) in accordance with the subjective gender assignment deemed by 'the doctors' as being 'correct', many times resulting in problems later in life.

Overall, I personally see the issue of 'transgender' as more of a political ploy to further the 'divide and conquer' meme, just as the 'powers' use race, economic, political, national or religious leanings to pit individuals against one-another, and this thread only confirms my suspicions. The Bruce/Caitlin Jenner debacle is just such a situation, as was the Caster Semyana Olympian runner issue a number of years back.

I do feel that those who surgically alter their bodies to conform with the 'other' gender, are actually acting out a feeling they have due to the nature of simultaneous incarnation described by Seth, in his 'Seth" series of books regarding the nature of Reality. There is NO Time - it is Always the 'Present', and thus All incarnations are happening At The Same Time. These trans-people are just Psychically tuning into other portions of their multiple Realities, and misinterpreting the signals in the 'here and now'. I'm certain that there are other factors at play, such as hormone levels and social influences that cause further confusion in the individual who acts out in such a manner.

If only there was greater understanding of these issues in the general population, I believe we'd see much less 'confusion' and greater acceptance and rejoicing of our current individual physical manifestations, and thus avoid the harmful effects of such mutilations.

In Unity, Peace and Love

[OnyxKnight]

I don't hate anyone, and feel people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including the LGBT community. The issue I have with the whole LBGT movement is being told that I have to accept a concept without question, otherwise I'm denounced as a hater or homophobe. The hostility displayed by those on this thread defending transgenderism is a typical example of this.
There seems to be a double standard here. It seems like it's perfectly alright for anyone in the LGBT category to bash and hate on those who disagree with their lifestyle, yet this is exactly what they are complaining about.
Why is it so unreasonable to discuss the issue here? Disagreement does not equate to hate and intolerance! The only intolerance I have is for people trying to shove an idea down my throat whether I like it or not.
Open debate is healthy and necessary for people to see both sides of an issue.

Perhaps you need to choose your words better before you ask the said question? That may help with not being labeled a "hater" or "homophobe". People usually do that when somebody is being a douchebag. Not when trying to get honest answers by posting a question, or sharing opinions and thoughts. You can have an opinion, sure, but if people find it offensive, then maybe you should avoid bringing it up. By the same token, many of the KKK and similar groups today may have their opinions or questions regarding race, but I'm sure most non-white (and many white) people will be offended or have something against it.

What the video, and your support of it as something completely fine to say, or portray, do, is put the entire LGBT community into question. By question, I mean, their normalcy or rights being put into question. When somebody does that, I will be very vocal and defensive about it, because I feel offended/attacked. You haven't lived the life LGBT people do. Comparing your condition to LGBT life just shows how much ignorant you are about the scope of the issues people like us face everyday. Depression is just one of the many side effects we experience daily. So yes, when expressing a discriminatory opinion, you should be prepared for an attack. Do you expect to be sent roses instead?

Videos like this are free to discuss whatever they like. But by putting all that out there, they also make an informal consent to be judged by everyone who watches it, or shares it with others. Same with you and your own opinions. Or, let's say, people who support the Flat Earth theory. They have every right to ask any kind of question, but watchers have the right to judge the material put out, and call them out. Same was done on this thread. And although several individuals sound like they are a transplant from PrisonPlanet forums, and tutored by Alex Jones (who can't even use the word gay, instead saying "homosexual" while twisting his face into a grimace), still more than half of the participants show some understanding and lack of judgement.


The right to free speech means being tolerant of all opinions, regardless whether we agree with them or not.

Not if the opinion is insulting. I don't have to be tolerant of that not one bit. You don't have to like bisexuals, homosexuals, lesbians or transgender people, but you need to show respect. Comparing all of them to some kind of mental disorder or illness is not showing me you are tolerant and respectful.


If someone doesn't care for the lifestyle of LGBT folks, they have every right to express that opinion.

I don't care much about Justin Bieber. I don't go around the internet (or portals where Belieber fans are concentrated) to talk how much I freaking couldn't care less about him. Or make videos about it.


Anyway, I see intolerance and hatred for people who are intolerant and hateful as being the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

Usually the bigoted are always accusing other of hatred. E.g. all that talk today about the dying of the white race, black racism, racial contamination etc. - All used to further spread hate in the name of "we're the one being targeted here, we're the victims!" mentality.


Nothing defines me unless I choose to be defined by it. The point was more to say that a mental disorder is not by definition insanity.

It doesn't matter. Why paint an orange green, just because you can?


It's not the defending that bothers me, or even the quality of the video. The question of whether LBGT traits are genetic, learned, a product of environment or whatever is legitimate. Having it shouted down as beyond questioning is what bothers me.

The problem is some people go wild on theories and "opinions" when that comes in. Like, the product of environment thing. Many claim this is due to bad childhood, bad parenting, some kind of trauma, or accident, or abuse etc. Not to mention there's nothing corroborating that, but people like to associate something they don't like with some other stuff that they don't like. Basic psychology. Or like somebody else, not sure who it was, said on the thread - projecting.


Just for arguments sake, what if there was a pill that would turn any LBGT person straight? How would something like that be received by the LGBT community?

Most would turn it down. The larger portion of those that would take the pill will be from countries where the LGBT rights progress is nowhere near that in the Americas and Europe. So, you are asking the wrong question. You would get more interesting answers, were this done for real, live, from people in first world nations, particularly western. And see what answers you get. I doubt much more than 1% will take that pill. It won't be a situation like Neo and the blue and red pill, this time the blue pill will be more favorable.

[bettye198]

Discussions are good, reason why Bill decided on a forum. It helps unnerve and release and maybe therapy and thru all that introspection. Thank you Tigahawk for your genuine honesty about your background and where you are right now. It burdens me to think our young is feeling much like the elders feel after lived a life of obligation or submission, even adventure and then, are simply happy to just be.

I keep wondering if there will be something revealed in our lifetime about the way our DNA has influenced all this inner chaos. Perhaps we will come to realize we are more like the loving reptilian in the movie "Enemy Mine" where the male and the female merged and birthed a child. I need to see that film again. I believe it has some hidden jewels to think about. After all, we have both hormones, and for some, more of one than the other.

On another point. I saw a picture of a male transgendered into a female but it was THE most bizarre thing I ever saw. The person decided it was not male or female but an "it". The person wanted to look like a reptilian dragon and had serious surgery to reformulate the nose, remove an ear, create horns and scales and a forked tongue.

[Dennis Leahy]

... I saw a picture of a male transgendered into a female but it was THE most bizarre thing I ever saw. The person decided it was not male or female but an "it". The person wanted to look like a reptilian dragon and had serious surgery to reformulate the nose, remove an ear, create horns and scales and a forked tongue.The person that had the surgery to get horns, etc: were they left-handed, or right handed? What color is their skin? What is their ethnicity? What is their birth-order? What is their astrological sign?

All of my questions are moot. If the topic is someone who decides to "reformulate the nose, remove an ear, create horns and scales and a forked tongue", why mention "transgender?" Seems like an attempt to sneak in one more accusation of mental illness associated with transgenderism, as per the opening post.

[TargeT]

All of my questions are moot. If the topic is someone who decides to "reformulate the nose, remove an ear, create horns and scales and a forked tongue", why mention "transgender?" Seems like an attempt to sneak in one more accusation of mental illness associated with transgenderism, as per the opening post.

I think EMO's have a mental illness, who can wear all that black all the time? clearly mentally disturbed, we should lock them all up and sterilize their parents.
ugFwcTrv_RE

or maybe it's just what they are wearing... kind of like these bodies.. it's just an aesthetic choice.... why would someone be worried about other peoples choices? Fear? Control? Its sad that mental energy is wasted on a topic like this... I deem it nearly worthless, with the only saving grace that maybe someone who is intolerant will learn something from it.

[OnyxKnight]

That's the typical response these days - Transgender being piled up next to body-modders, and both piled next to transhumanism or mental illness, whichever repulses one more.

Transhumanism is not a bad thing either. It depends on what kind of society we live in that day. If it's not much changed from now, then we're screwed. But a more liberated and sane world would be a great place for transhumanists. Also, transhumanism is not all androids, cyborgs, genetic engineering, and people living in the 1s and 0s inside the digital dimensions. The hippies were the first transhumanists. You can be a new age advocate and be a transhumanist. The point is being something more and better than you already are, in your own standards and definitions. Transcending limitations, or the current humanity.

I feel transhumanism has become to the alternative community, what socialism and communism has become to the average american since the cold war. And we are in a cold war too, ours is informational.

[Bruno]

wow. Some interesting and intense discussions. I personally feel that if the modern world allowed for greater acceptance of gender fluidity and allowed people to dress and behave in less rigid ways there wouldn't be a need for surgery, or there would be less interest. Even still I don't get why someone wanting to have surgery should be looked down upon or classified as unnatural or going against their karma. Most people wouldn't tell a woman with large breasts who gets a reduction that she is going against the natural order or that having painfully large breasts is what she was suppose to experience in this lifetime.

[bearcow]

99.999999% percent of the people in the world are mentally ill, to a lesser or greater degree. So the answer is yes, with the caveat being is this particular type of mental illness something that needs to be publicly addressed because it endangers the foundations of society itself.

I would say not really, there are bigger issues out there. Let people deal with "sexuality issues" in their own way. That goes for heterosexuals as well.

[DNA]

I don't hate anyone, and feel people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including the LGBT community. The issue I have with the whole LBGT movement is being told that I have to accept a concept without question, otherwise I'm denounced as a hater or homophobe. The hostility displayed by those on this thread defending transgenderism is a typical example of this.
There seems to be a double standard here. It seems like it's perfectly alright for anyone in the LGBT category to bash and hate on those who disagree with their lifestyle, yet this is exactly what they are complaining about.
Why is it so unreasonable to discuss the issue here? Disagreement does not equate to hate and intolerance! The only intolerance I have is for people trying to shove an idea down my throat whether I like it or not.
Open debate is healthy and necessary for people to see both sides of an issue.


I believe as a soul we have no sexual orientation or specificity, when we incarnate we indulge in identifying with a particular gender.
Now I'm no Ghandi, but I'm thinking the goal of reincarnation is to be flexible and unified. To be the sum of the Yin/Yang, and not to identify with only one half of it.
If someone wants to get a gender reassignment, then that's fine, but I do not think they should be celebrated or vilified.
If one wants to say they are a hero for having the courage to have the surgery, I think this is just as wrong as folks stating they are a coward for not learning to live within the confines of their own gender.
I do not believe this is a subject matter for 99.99% of the population, and as such why is it being shoved down our throats?
Why are millions of parents across the country having to figure out how to explain this situation to their children who are asking about it?
I do not feel Bruce Jenner should be the focal point of so much attention for having a radical surgical procedure, I do not fault him for doing it, I fault the media in general for creating such a spectacle of him, and I fault the motives behind those in power for handing this script over to the media, and I question the motives of those in power for making this procedure such a spectacle.
What next? Are we to celebrate the first true trans-human who did not feel comfortable in their own skin until their brain was made Wi-Fi accessible?

[Catsquotl]

LOL

What a funny discussion this is..
Really read it and think about what is discussed. Thank you all for making my day.

On a more serious note. There is a lot of research in the field of the human mind.
Most of those come to the conclusion that the mind itself is either an unhealthy side effect of some condition. Or even terminally diseased.

With Love
Eelco

[The Freedom Train]

"Mental Illness", however, is a very condemning and judgemental label.

I see "mental illness" as a construct that is being used to subjugate and control us (blame and shame, divide and conquer, incapacitate and program) via psychoactive drugs that addle the brain and largely ineffective and circular talk therapy lead by a professional "shrink". As others have noted, one look at the DSM will prove that anybody and everybody could be conveniently slapped with a label and involuntarily committed for reprogramming. The sad part is that, "mental illness" is a confusing mish mosh of awakening, awareness, and mind controlled lies and programming. I see "mental illness" as a cross between the signs of awakening and psychotronic targeting.


It is curious MS media supports Transgenderism and this, in and of itself, requires us to critically analyse the issue...

My mistrust of the most visible and audible mouthpieces for TPTB lead me to a similar suspicion - ie, what is their angle??

[AutumnW]

I don't hate anyone, and feel people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including the LGBT community. The issue I have with the whole LBGT movement is being told that I have to accept a concept without question, otherwise I'm denounced as a hater or homophobe. The hostility displayed by those on this thread defending transgenderism is a typical example of this.
There seems to be a double standard here. It seems like it's perfectly alright for anyone in the LGBT category to bash and hate on those who disagree with their lifestyle, yet this is exactly what they are complaining about.
Why is it so unreasonable to discuss the issue here? Disagreement does not equate to hate and intolerance! The only intolerance I have is for people trying to shove an idea down my throat whether I like it or not.
Open debate is healthy and necessary for people to see both sides of an issue.

You are not "disagreeing with a lifestyle," you are rejecting who they are. Most transgendered people live lives, so fraught with difficulty, you can't imagine. If I was on another forum I would tell you to go...but I can't because of forum rules.

[Ted]

You are not "disagreeing with a lifestyle," you are rejecting who they are. Most transgendered people live lives, so fraught with difficulty, you can't imagine. If I was on another forum I would tell you to go...but I can't because of forum rules.Let me clarify my position. As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to express themselves any way they choose. I may disagree, for instance, with the choices a drug addict makes, but I neither reject them nor condemn them for who they are. Transgenderism is not my lifestyle, but frankly, I could care less if someone else wants to live that way. That's their choice. I accept their choice and I accept their right to make it. If someone else decides to be bigoted and narrow minded, I also accept their right to be that way.
When people are condemned for expressing an unpopular opinion, this creates resentment and counter condemnation. Nobody changes their mind by getting blasted for their opinions
Hatred and intolerance cannot be cured with more hatred and intolerance. Love, compassion and kindness are much more effective tools in countering these attitudes.

[AutumnW]

Ted, life 'style' is a choice. We don't choose our gender, nor do we choose to have a very feminine or masculine brain/mind incompatible with our bodies. Do you get that the way you are framing this might trigger anger? It's like saying our racial heritage is a lifestyle choice.

I admit a lot of people go WAY too far with this and we shouldn't need to accommodate several hundred incremental differences in gender. Super impractical-- all those different bathrooms, for one.

[AutumnW]

wow. Some interesting and intense discussions. I personally feel that if the modern world allowed for greater acceptance of gender fluidity and allowed people to dress and behave in less rigid ways there wouldn't be a need for surgery, or there would be less interest. Even still I don't get why someone wanting to have surgery should be looked down upon or classified as unnatural or going against their karma. Most people wouldn't tell a woman with large breasts who gets a reduction that she is going against the natural order or that having painfully large breasts is what she was suppose to experience in this lifetime.

Exactly! Thank you for articulating it better than I could!

[Vward]

The subject of Transgenderism has the backing of the Tavistock Institute here in the UK. And following a discussion with someone I was asked to watch a documentary from channel 4 titled "Kids on the edge". It revolved around mental health and admitted openly to the lack of knowledge to how these children could be affected by the hormones given to block puberty. ADHD was linked to Transgenderism. All professionals worked for the Tavistock Institute.
Given the Tavistock's history I feel strongly that this being promoted from an agency with a dark agenda. The history of non conformity and expressing sexuality is not to be confused with experimentation on children who have not yet developed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2508704/NHS-Tavistock-Clinic-treating-transgender-children-therapies-prepare-sex-change.html

[Omni]

That's the typical response these days - Transgender being piled up next to body-modders, and both piled next to transhumanism or mental illness, whichever repulses one more.

Transhumanism is not a bad thing either. It depends on what kind of society we live in that day. If it's not much changed from now, then we're screwed. But a more liberated and sane world would be a great place for transhumanists. Also, transhumanism is not all androids, cyborgs, genetic engineering, and people living in the 1s and 0s inside the digital dimensions. The hippies were the first transhumanists. You can be a new age advocate and be a transhumanist. The point is being something more and better than you already are, in your own standards and definitions. Transcending limitations, or the current humanity.

I feel transhumanism has become to the alternative community, what socialism and communism has become to the average american since the cold war. And we are in a cold war too, ours is informational.
Great point onyx. As an experiencer of countless end game technologies I can testify that they can be amazing. Imagine the best orgasm feeling possible in the universe put anywhere on the body at will... This isn't even close to 1% of it. Every premise in reality has energies that relate to it. In the more long term future these technologies will provide a mind canvas based renaissance. I have witnessed the good side of singularity AI; The Spirit of AI. I have also witnessed the despotic tyrants in charge of the world's AI as well. It is one of the most complex and balanced subjects in existence IMO.

Currently they are fully weaponized and the public doesn't know the good sides of these technologies yet. I can tell by the media the public is subjected to that there are major psychological warfare (information warfare programs) attempting to divide the population regarding future tech discoveries. They want people to fear and hate AI, they want people to think Electronic Telepathy is evil, they want people to implant themselves using these technologies also, so its complicated and there are PSYOPS behavioral desires for different demographics. Including both repulsion from these technologies and naive use of them(e.g. implantation).

The ruling class at the top of the pyramid have had an electronic telepathy secret society since the 1970s or sooner. This was the secret society I was inducted to in 2007 right before I became a severe overt targeted individual. One of the things a source asked me was "You actually want the population to have these technologies?" I think the public doesn't have much access to the truth and the transhumanism vs. new age psy ops are very complex to discern...

On one hand you have the ingredients of utopia, on the other you have the most extreme levels of enslavement possible with these technologies...

As for transgender, something is dysfunctional in that situation. Unfortunate for the people who are forced to be transgendered. Perhaps each transgendered person is a targeted individual on a incarnational level. Perhaps the reincarnation grid is doing this to people. I do know it is possible to create the thoughts of "I am not the right sex" via mind control as well, and the electromagnetic mind control grid is set up enough to transhumanize someone 100%. I can safely say from where I sit that the shadow govt is transgendering some straight people just knowing their style.

Also, the mental illness label is thrown around the NWO institutions liberally. It is a way to discredit, marginalize & divide people. I have known one transgendered person from a young age. I would not class them as mentally ill as a person.

[betoobig]

The only disfunctional thing in trangenders situation is society itself. This people only have one problem, society and its duality. This people are opening our minds and hearts by making us accept there is more to it than duality, black or White... there is a huge palete of colours out there , and society were no so manipulated we all could see this as completly natural. As usual, antediluvian cultures had it clear. Natives americans diferenced 5 tipes of genders, and when a transgender was identify it was big cellebration for the tribe, becouse they knew they were a bit more richer thanks to people who embodied both sexes, both visions of reality in one. BTW, transgender does not describe this people, Not Well Identifyed Gender or People Who Has to Claim their Gender, should be the name. This people dont fight to change gender, but to claim thier true gender.
I agree if society were diferent, most of transgender would not need cirgury (cirujía) in order to sickly try to fit in society. There are lots of man with vagina who are now avoiding cirgury becouse they want to have their own baby.
So, i like things simple, and as simple as this:
acknowlege there are man with vagina and woman with pennis.(period)

Much love to all

[DNA]

You are not "disagreeing with a lifestyle," you are rejecting who they are. Most transgendered people live lives, so fraught with difficulty, you can't imagine. If I was on another forum I would tell you to go...but I can't because of forum rules.Let me clarify my position. As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to express themselves any way they choose. I may disagree, for instance, with the choices a drug addict makes, but I neither reject them nor condemn them for who they are. Transgenderism is not my lifestyle, but frankly, I could care less if someone else wants to live that way. That's their choice. I accept their choice and I accept their right to make it. If someone else decides to be bigoted and narrow minded, I also accept their right to be that way.
When people are condemned for expressing an unpopular opinion, this creates resentment and counter condemnation. Nobody changes their mind by getting blasted for their opinions
Hatred and intolerance cannot be cured with more hatred and intolerance. Love, compassion and kindness are much more effective tools in countering these attitudes.


Amen Ted!
Very well stated.

[DNA]

This is exactly what I'm talking about.
The MSM is pumping a message and people are now making completely irrational decisions.
And now National Geographic has a little boy who has had a sex change operation on the cover of their magazine? WTF?
The parents of this child listened to a child psychologist and agreed to have a sex change operation done on the SEVEN YEAR OLD CHILD? This should never be a question for parent to make a decision for a child. A person should be well into adulthood before trying to make this kind of decision for themselves...
Now can folks see that their is some agenda in place here?



Avery’s parents supported their daughter through her transition.


Despite the fact that Debi Jackson, Avery’s mother, had never heard of the term “transgender” before a Google search, she and her husband, Tom, have supported their daughter throughout her transition. They took Avery to a child psychologist when Avery announced her gender identity and then took the psychologist’s advice: Let her be a girl.
http://www.wtsp.com/img/resize/content.wtsp.com/photo/2016/12/19/56_1482202857563_7401149_ver1.0.jpg?preset=534-401

[Chester]

All is permissible but not all is beneficial...

Someone may want something really bad, or do something because they can, or because it makes them feel "better", etc, but does that make it right or wise?

Natural Law is Natural Law.

Forgo it at your own risk...


Please, help me out here...

Are you saying that how one identifies themselves with regards to their "sex identity" and/or how one determines which sexual identity they gravitate towards when motivated by which sexual persona they are attracted to sexually... if it is not physically "opposite" is violating "natural law?"

If so, where is this "natural law" documented?

If it is documented, by what authority was this "natural law" established?

If it is not written, then are you implying that we should all "know this?"

If so, by what authority is this law created?

By what right does the third party that created this law have such that it may input this law into our "knowing?"

[onawah]

Convicted killer: California will pay for his sex-change
by Jon Rappoporthttps://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/01/08/convicted-killer-california-will-pay-for-his-sex-change/

(This is an extreme case, but I agree with Rappaport that it is pretty ridiculous to make taxpayers pay for a convicted killer's sex change.
Would the sex change then make him eligible to be transferred to a women's prison, I wonder?
When there are so many other hugely more important issues for humankind to deal with, this just seems like a distraction to me.
When I was taking classes at the Berkeley Psychic Institute, their explanation of this phenomena made a lot of sense to me.
They said that Earth humans have to incarnate as both male and female to get the experiences they need to "graduate".
If a soul becomes attached to one gender and chooses to incarnate as that gender only, sooner or later the Higher Self will intervene and the soul will have to start incarnating as the less desired gender.
They may still identify as the preferred gender, but they will still have to experience life in that kind of body until their Earth experience is complete.
That needs to be taken into consideration in any discussion about transgenderism, imho, although, of course, if this is a prison planet, that certainly complicates matters, as we may be stuck here on 3D Earth much longer than we choose to, although some souls do apparently succeed in escaping once they have evolved enough spiritually.
Whether souls can be forced into incarnating in a less preferred gender by vengeful ETs or EDs might be possible, too, of course, but who's to know if that is the case? )

January 8, 2017



Rodney Quine, 57, is serving a life-without-parole sentence for murder, kidnapping, and robbery. He now calls himself Shiloh Heavenly Quine.

He has been battling for the right to obtain full sex-change procedures from the state of California; he has won his case; and now he has received the surgery, paid for by the state.

After long opposition, California corrections officials finally gave in.

The legal basis for Quine’s claim? The Eighth Amendment to the US Constitution: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

Presumably, it is the “cruel and unusual punishment” phrase that is considered relevant and binding.

In order to bolster that claim, there would need to be an official designation of “transgender person.” However, from the state’s point of view, a person simply saying he is transgender or wants to be transgender is sufficient to establish that he IS transgender. Whether or not he carries biological or genetic factors that could, possibly, dispose him to want to change his sex, those factors aren’t necessary.

Therefore, when Quine claims he wants to be female, this is enough to invoke the “cruel and unusual” designation. He is in prison. He is under the absolute authority of the state of California. He wants to become female. If the state didn’t pay for the full medical procedure, the state would be punishing him beyond an allowable Constitutional limit.

That’s quite a stretch.

It permits a prisoner’s subjective opinion to carry the day—in this case, a convicted kidnapper’s and murderer’s opinion.

This is moral relativism at its finest. The state of California must honor the opinion, assertion, and values of a convicted killer, and pay for it with tax dollars.

To justify and elevate a person’s subjective opinion and assertion, there is a medical condition called gender dysphoria. But on examination, this turns out to be a “feeling.”

WebMD: “People who have gender dysphoria feel strongly that they are not the gender they physically appear to be. For example, a person who has a penis and all other physical traits of a male might feel instead that he is actually a female. That person would have an intense desire to have a female body and to be accepted by others as a female. Or, someone with the physical characteristics of a female would feel her true identity is male. Feeling that your body does not reflect your true gender can cause severe distress, anxiety, and depression. ‘Dysphoria’ is a feeling of dissatisfaction, anxiety, and restlessness. With gender dysphoria, the discomfort with your male or female body can be so intense that it can interfere with the way you function in normal life, for instance at school or work or during social activities.”

In our society, this feeling (accompanied by a vapid medical label) is now considered sufficient to force the state to pay for radical medical procedures that will satisfy an intensely unhappy person serving a life sentence for murder.

It’s clear that an agenda is operating here. If this prisoner, Quine, will have his sex-change paid for by the state, then why can’t any person in California demand the state pay for the same medical treatment?

To take this even further, why should we stop at the issue of gender dysphoria? It’s merely a social and political movement that has gained enough support to exert influence over government decisions. Why can’t ANY individual’s feeling, reflecting ANY preference or desire, win the approval of the state and its funding apparatus?

If a person claims he can’t function in a place that has refused to declare itself a sanctuary city, why can’t he demand the state pay for his relocation to San Francisco?

If a person declares he can no longer retain his sanity in a state that voted for Trump in the election, why can’t he obtain funding from that state or the federal government so he can move to New York?

—“But gender issues are more real, more basic, more compelling.” Are they? By what standard? It all comes back to an individual and what he says he feels. From that basis, a social movement has developed—what used to be called a pressure group.
I’m sure, with some funding from George Soros or another humanitarian saint, a movement of people who are afflicted with “non-sanctuary city disorder” could band together, and they could, over time, make a compelling case for state-sponsored relocation to a more amenable social climate.

In case you hadn’t noticed, society has turned into a “tolerance scoreboard.” Under the unspoken rules of political correctness, citizens are pressured to give assent to the most outrageous demands, even to the extent of funding them with their taxes. This abject acceptance is part of the “progressive agenda.”

On the other hand, zero tolerance is deployed to oppose, neutralize, and punish trivial or even constructive actions. A child comes to school with a pop-tart and chews it into a shape resembling a gun and all hell breaks loose. A homeowner grows vegetables on her front lawn and local officials issue a fine and a cease and desist order. A homeowners’ association in Southern California orders the wife of a Marine to take down an American flag she placed in a “common area,” where residents have placed signs and other types of flags.

This is operant conditioning. “Accept these behaviors. Reject those behaviors.”

And now a prisoner serving life in California will have his demands met.

Stand up and salute a victory for “social awareness.”

Jon Rappoport

[Jupi7er]

Everything you think do and say
is in the processed food you ate today.


In the year 2525
aint gonna need no husband or wife
choose your son/daughter too
from the bottom of a corporate lab tube

yay yay

[betoobig]

There are womans with pennis and man with vagina.
Please Mods change the titlle of the trhead, as transgender is not mental illness, in fact there is no treatment for it, when society leaves this kids alone and let them do, they are ok. The only treatment they need is to let them be...
LET THEM BE!!!!!

[OnyxKnight]

Considering many transgender identifying groups use this is a fashion expression or some kind of badge of honor, it is a symptom of a mental illness. A feminine guy or a tomboy girl is not equivalent to transgenderism. Period. Yet this is what is being pushed. And those who say society is the one that is sick by having aspects of it acting as sanity gatekeepers, haven't paying much attention to what's going on lately. When society, not biology, is pushing the "more than two genders" narrative into law, something is rotting deep inside. And in what world is being "non-binary" equal to transgenderism? Transgender folk carry that title for transitioning from sex A to sex B or vice versa. That's where trans comes from, there's a path between two points where this change occurs. Being both genders or none of them (as in, something separate), is not transgenderism, plain and simple. Though I shouldn't be surprised that the definition is being subject to change, like many other terms have suffered change lately, in just the course of 10 years or less (like racism, sexism, sexual harassment, rape, privilege, class and many others). You can see in nature many examples of a varied distribution of genders, gender variants, even multiple types of male or female counterparts, within same species. But for these species this is a common thing.

Transgenderism, even the classic one (I can't believe I'm using that exact description), makes up barely 0.4% of the LGBT community, which itself is no more than 5% of the human population, by even the most valid optimistic assessments. That's far from any common biological expression. While bisexuality and homosexuality exist in the animal kingdom, they remain uncommon more or less as it is the case with humans. But within the species I mentioned above, where they have a variety of sexes, some who even change their sex naturally, as well as multiple types of males and females, those things are species-common things, unlike even homosexuality. We can't change our species, or the way we perceive it, just so that it comforts a fringe fraction of the global population. You don't even have to be a redneck conservative to have that view, it's called having a modicum of sanity in your brain. I'm a classic liberal, although some may view me more as libertarian maybe, and I think anyone can do whatever they want with their bodies, if they can afford to do so. I don't think the government is obliged to cover those costs (as there are already cases where this has been abused), and for any who cannot cover these costs or don't feel like making a physical transition to a prefered sex, but try to make it into law that you refer to them as they please, is another example of insanity and another thing I believe the government is not supposed to enforce on other people (which again, there are examples where this is happening). When it comes to the government, people tend to forget the vast majority, or even that little line sometimes "we the people..".

Do whatever you want with your body, but I'm not obliged to refer to you as a man or a woman if I don't think you're "passable" as such, and even less enthusiastic about referring to you as the singular "they" or "Zie, Zim, Zei" and a plethora of other lingo concoctions from this regressive movements who don't feel like fitting in with either gender or think of themselves as both. And to make it a punishable law, is like I said, insanity. And I'm continually appalled by the gay community as well for allying itself with these regressives, and many other cultural terrorists (including islamists), and is one big fat reason (among a long chapter of them) that I never felt a connection with the gay community as a gay man. I don't feel represented there, and any similar minds like mine are pushed away as gay "wrongthinkers", as some kind of Judas figures to this "liberal cause". I'd blame the LGBT lobby together with the PTB pulling the strings on this regressive ideology that passes for liberalism these days, but at some point people have to take responsibility for their own hostility, naivety, and frankly, intoxicating idiocracy they help create.

I'm surprised at how many people here are full on ready to play ball with this whole thing, yet this is supposed to be the wary bunch. Those who'd smell the fish before it's out the freezer. Those who think of themselves cautious of trojan horses that are sent their way. This community, rather than being less naive with years going by, seems to have only grown more complacent, and the minority who were the voice of reason here, have grown apathetic or have removed their voice from these boards or have had it removed by others.

It's sad to see this. As somebody who thought of himself as the eternal optimist. I guess even eternity doesn't last that long.

[looking-glass]

I am not going to say whether I agree or disagree with any of the opinions here or 'transgender'.

I don't mind being called a coward, but think sometimes it is best to keep one's own counsel. (Bah, don't like refering to myself as 'one' anyhow, that's the saying).

All I can say is that my heart feels there is something sinister about:

- the MSM feverishly promoting 'transgender'
- the law makers criminalising those that choose not to want to support it

And please read carefully, my heart is not saying 'transgender' is sinister.

[DNA]

I don't hate anyone, and feel people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including the LGBT community. The issue I have with the whole LBGT movement is being told that I have to accept a concept without question, otherwise I'm denounced as a hater or homophobe. The hostility displayed by those on this thread defending transgenderism is a typical example of this.
There seems to be a double standard here. It seems like it's perfectly alright for anyone in the LGBT category to bash and hate on those who disagree with their lifestyle, yet this is exactly what they are complaining about.
Why is it so unreasonable to discuss the issue here? Disagreement does not equate to hate and intolerance! The only intolerance I have is for people trying to shove an idea down my throat whether I like it or not.
Open debate is healthy and necessary for people to see both sides of an issue.

You are not "disagreeing with a lifestyle," you are rejecting who they are. Most transgendered people live lives, so fraught with difficulty, you can't imagine. If I was on another forum I would tell you to go...but I can't because of forum rules.


I agree with Ted and how he states his point. Individuals should have the ability to have and express an opinion.
Notice how you react emotionally and want to lash out at Ted.
Why? He was perfectly eloquent in stating his point. He should be free to have his opinion and it shouldn't affect you. We do not have to all agree on every single item in the world.
This is what I hate about the bullsh!t liberal movement, we are all so concerned about feelings being hurt that no one is allowed to express their opinion.
Everything is labeled hate speech or hate crime.

[Enola]

I'm not comfortable with the way transgenderism is being pushed SO hard right now.

The media is just being really manipulative about it with all these touching stories and pictures of little children who's had it so difficult, etc.

There's definitely nothing natural about how it's all come at once and is obviously a planned media campaign. Like "Free the nipple" (which is one of the most stupid things).

[DasLilaLied]

First of all, transgender means someone who identifies as something different than from their biological sex in terms of gender. A transsexual is someone who wants to assimilate themselves to one extreme of the gender spectrum. This is my understanding of the case. If yours is different, so be it.

Mainly, I want to share some of my personal experience in this area.

I once identified as a transgender person – until I noticed that I really don’t care.
I was on testosterone for five years. I only stopped because I wanted to be independent from medication. Removing all toxicity from my life and being independent is more important to me.
I do not and never did consider myself mentally ill. For me, something like mental illness does not exist because the measuring reference is always the so called ‘healthy society’ which is the sickest thing on this earth that I can imagine right now.
From being on and being off the opposite of my naturally produced dominant hormones, I can say that they did not change me emotionally – at all. When I started the hormones I became calmer and happier, I was less agitated and my mother paid me a very strange comment: “You have become so much more aggregable.” What she meant was that I did not fight with her about everything any more. But that was a problem that I had with my mother also to things unrelated to transgenderism. So I think she thought it was because of my ‘transition’ that I became more aggregable in a sense that I was less antisocial – which is not true. I was never sure if it was the hormones that actually made me calmer of if it was the bodily transformation that I eagerly observed.

For the record: I started the hormones mostly because I was more attracted to masculine aesthetics. I wanted look like what I found aesthetically attractive. And so I did. I just continued living and life did not feel that much different, but I appreciated my body more, not because I did not have to conform to the feminine stereotype and more – I never did anyway. No, I just enjoyed looking at myself. So, for me, it has been mostly body modification, but not actually to the opposite gender, but to something which is both. My breasts are so small that I do not flatten them and ironically, I did not want to get rid of them any more once I took the hormones. Now I would never want them to go away. And I feel incredible comfortable in this androgynous body. It hasn’t changed much since going off hormones. Some things may ‘revert’, but others won’t because I don’t want them to. I know that for myself because my spiritual journey has been progressing very far during that time.

When I started to want to look more and actually ‘pass’ as male, it was due to my being uncomfortable in the feminine gender role, too, though because I was totally sure that I was a gay man and wanted to be desired by men as a man so to say. That became a very secondary thing as time progressed, though. My so called transition actually even made me more sensitive to misogyny instead of less, also because suddenly I was a comparatively feminine man who was sometimes and sometimes wasn’t perceived as gay. Now that this all became clear to me, I did not want to ‘change back’ or anything. I felt good, so why change it? I liked my changed life situation and my new sensitivity was an enrichment, not something that I considered bad. Also, now I was unconventional in another sense because I was seen as a man who was sometimes very masculine and sometimes very feminine, according to liking, moods and circumstances. This obviously posed a threat to some very insecure, most masculine men and I was mocked sometimes but I was never a victim of any kind of real violence because I never had a victim mentality. You are the Creator of your own reality and even though I was not consciously aware of it, I’ve always lived it. I get what I want, also the things that many people consider as bad – and I did want some of that, too.

Now, I don’t have a gender identity. I just am. I also don’t have a sexual identity. I just see who I feel attracted to and if at all. So far, I have not felt any sexual attraction that would make me want to sleep with someone, even though I did have sexual relationships with males – on and off male hormones. I did not dislike sex, but it was usually less interesting than reading a book. The intimate physical touching per se was the actual thing what I liked most. But I could and would do it with any person I like if they agreed.
My sex drive has not changed an inch either way. Testosterone did not make me want to suddenly have sex. (I had normal and sometimes high levels of testosterone regarding the male standard.) This is also why I now would not accredit much to sexual hormones any more in matters of sexual wants and needs. In my case, there was and is no correlation.
The only people who were really opposed to me taking hormones and in their perspective changing my gender were my parents. There was no bad society that made me miserable – because I was convinced that it was nobody’s business but mine. And it showed. I am not ‘generally outed’, but if I decide to tell people that my private parts are not what my outward appearance, which is masculine leaning towards androgyny, I am very casual about the outing. People are usually surprised but then they are like: “Oh, okay.” And treat me as a human – or a man, I don’t know

My point is, a so called transgender experience can be mostly easy, exciting and enjoyable. It is just another experience that the Universal Consciousness (or call it what you want) wants to experience. In my case it was not a super difficult struggle with a huge drama. I just wanted to do it and did it. So what?

I also don’t feel offended by people who have something against transgenderism or whatever. Opinions are opinions and I can live with them.
I can only be offended if I think that I am wrong or if I live in fear of [insert whatever].
And funnily enough, people usually change their mind about such ‘problematic topics’ once they know someone they like who may be called transgender, regardless if they actually identify as transgender or not. When someone likes you, it is a totally secondary 'trait' because the emotional connection is there anyway.

I also think that this splitting up in so called ‘identity traits’ is a type of divide and conquer and makes victims rather than empowering people.
Especially when people from the so called LGBT*QI spectrum actually separate themselves from ‘the others’ and form their special groups the split did not have to be forced, they have separated themselves. It gets sold as empowerment when it is actually pitting one group against another. The LGBT*QI community is no community anyway in my experience. There are plenty of misogynist homosexually identifying males, there are many transphobic homosexually identifying females. There are many homosexually identifying people who think that bisexuals don’t exist. There are those who want to party and have sex all the time, there are those who want to marry and assimilate to normal society. There are those that want to fight politically and there are those who want to just live their lives according to their personal tastes. This is everything but homogenous. These are differences between people who may or may not have certain types of so called ‘identity traits’ in common. But otherwise they are as different from each other as from any other person on the planet.
Unity in diversity makes sense to me, not separation into different types of divisions and ‘others’. It is a distraction – like so many other things that I will not elaborate on here.
And when all the groups of people who form their identity around certain restrictive concepts avoid each other and fight against each other despite not actually wanting to get to know ‘the others’, the separation lasts. So divide and conquer mission accomplished.

I don’t condone political correctness, though, or criminalizing certain opinions. This is just an excuse to restrict expression rights even further.

I have no identity any more, I describe what I am doing and what I have done. It changes in a blink of an eye anyway. I have once transgendered, so to say. Currently, I do not gender because my mind is not gendering toward either polarity. It simply doesn’t matter to me. Other people usually think that I am manning and not womaning and that is fine. Some may think that I am feminining or gaying, though. It is their reality, not mine, so whatever. It has nothing to do with my perspective but with theirs and this is fine, too.
And why would I be offended by Myself having a different experience? Usually Myself in those other realities is not very present in Mine anyway because what my persona (i.e. role) wants to experience is something else what the other persona wants to live though.

Otherwise I just am.


BTW: I don’t have a lot of media exposure, so I don’t know how transgenderism is being pushed or not – and frankly, I don’t care. BUT (yes the ominous BUT) this pushing or not pushing has not affected my personal life in any way. I just live my life and see what happens – without fear. The media can change your reality and the media does change the reality of billions of people daily. It is a choice to have your reality changed by something outside yourself.

If this pushing is taking place in your realities it is probably just another try to take away rights of ‘free’ expression. That it is ‘transgenderism’ is only secondary. It could be literally anything else. And it will be something else at some point. Oh, it already is. There are ‘islamists’ too! But they are currently the ‘enemy’ and ‘transgenderism’ is currently the supposed ‘friend’. There have to be two sides of the medal… for the people who need their duality.

[Merlinus]

Transgenderism is increasingly being encouraged, particularly on children, the Illuminati are in the process of eliminating sex/gender, this is a prelude to transhumanism.

Occult roots of the post gender movement

In toto, the series will consist of the following sections:
Part 1: The occult roots of the postgender movement
Part 2: Postgenderism as transhumanist technology
Part 3: The “feminist revolution” and postgenderism
Part 4: The postgenderism re-education of culture
Part 5: The postgenderism worldview and literature

https://illuminatiwatcher.com/the-occult-roots-of-the-postgender-movement/

[petra]

If we did indeed 'start out' (spiritually) with no gender, 'going back' to not having genders would seem to be the logical conclusion.

I don't feel as if there's anything sinister about a race of beings that don't have gender - to me, that's just evolution. There's no other direction to go.

I'm actually kind of impressed at Avery, the little girl on the National Geographic. That tagline "the best thing about being a girl is, now I don't have to pretend to be a boy" makes me want to cry from happiness.

"Knowing what you want" is a mental illness? Seems kind of foolish.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

This video was posted in another thread but deserves to be posted here too:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlRkLtKqSrY

Many/most people who identify as transgender were apparently abused as children, which this guy (also a victim and former transgender) discusses above.



If we did indeed 'start out' (spiritually) with no gender, 'going back' to not having genders would seem to be the logical conclusion.

Our spirits also don't have physical bodies, so according to this logic, the logical conclusion would be actively getting rid of our physical bodies, perhaps through suicide. And coincidentally, transgenders have a 42-46% suicide attempt rate (https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf).


Suicide attempts among trans men
(46%) and trans women (42%) were
slightly higher than the full sample (41%).
Cross-dressers assigned male at birth
have the lowest reported prevalence of
suicide attempts among gender identity
groups (21%).

National average is 4.6%, and these people are attempting suicide at nearly 10 times that rate. They have mental illnesses and aren't getting the proper treatment. I don't want to hear anything about bullying, either, because as much trouble as black people put up with in the US, including outright slavery, they never had such outrageous suicide attempt rates, and I'm not sure who would even try to equate any form of bullying with the psychological oppression of slavery.

Some Jim Jones cult members were probably crying with happiness too, as they committed mass suicide. All of this stuff is feelings based and not based on any kind of rational thinking at all. It's been part of an ongoing social programming agenda for decades now, going all the way back at least to Weimar Germany, where the first transgender stuff was pushed by the German Communist Party.

If this is really "natural" and the logical conclusion to anything, then why don't we also start giving gender reassignment surgery to animals? All someone has to do is figure out what gender an animal "feels like." If toddlers these days are being treated like transgenders before they're old enough to even know what sex is, then why not animals too?

[TomKat]

I attended some classes in the Bay Area years ago that were given by a group of psychics.
Among the subjects that came up were reincarnation, androgeny and homosexuality.
It was generally agreed upon by the psychics (and it seems very likely true to me) that as androgynous souls who have come here (whether willingly or not) we must experience this reality on Earth (though it may be different elsewhere) as both genders, through a series of many incarnations.
But many souls may have a preference for one gender or the other, and so they will choose to incarnate as their chosen gender again and again until the time comes inevitably, when their Higher Self steps in and sees to it that the soul begins to incarnate as their least favorite gender, uncomfortable as that may be.
This can seem like an unnatural ordeal to some, and the changeover may take many lifetimes to achieve successfully, before the soul adjusts, physically, mentally and emotionally.
Electing to go so far as to have transgender surgery is a manifestation of resistance to a kind of natural law, as OMG said, yet it is certainly permissible karmically.
It is, if nothing else, a sign that that soul is simply not yet willing to take on the characteristics of the unfavorite gender, but it will be a learning experience, in any case.
Things are no doubt less complicated on worlds where the androgynous nature of the soul is more accepted.
But part of 3D experiencing is very much about duality, and that can certainly create a lot of complications.
Though we can also look at it as an interesting experience, of course!

Great story. I'm not so sure the soul is natively androgynous though. The 4 cats I'm aware of who reincarnated all came back as the same sex and personality as before. Simon Parkes says that animals don't get mind-wiped between lives the way humans do. John Lear thought that humans are processed on the moon between lives and are purposefully reincarnated as the wrong sex.

[petra]

If we did indeed 'start out' (spiritually) with no gender, 'going back' to not having genders would seem to be the logical conclusion.

Our spirits also don't have physical bodies, so according to this logic, the logical conclusion would be actively getting rid of our physical bodies, perhaps through suicide. And coincidentally, transgenders have a 42-46% suicide attempt rate (https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf).

..
National average is 4.6%, and these people are attempting suicide at nearly 10 times that rate. They have mental illnesses and aren't getting the proper treatment. I don't want to hear anything about bullying, either, because as much trouble as black people put up with in the US, including outright slavery, they never had such outrageous suicide attempt rates, and I'm not sure who would even try to equate any form of bullying with the psychological oppression of slavery.

Some Jim Jones cult members were probably crying with happiness too, as they committed mass suicide. All of this stuff is feelings based and not based on any kind of rational thinking at all. It's been part of an ongoing social programming agenda for decades now, going all the way back at least to Weimar Germany, where the first transgender stuff was pushed by the German Communist Party.

If this is really "natural" and the logical conclusion to anything, then why don't we also start giving gender reassignment surgery to animals? All someone has to do is figure out what gender an animal "feels like." If toddlers these days are being treated like transgenders before they're old enough to even know what sex is, then why not animals too?

Killing yourself obviously isn't logical either! I see transgenderism more like a side effect of spiritual evolution, and I sincerely hope that's not offensive to anyone. I think it's natural, considering the circumstances. I reserve the right to be wrong of course, I just get the impression that spirits can evolve too (and de-volve). I never used to believe in de-evolution before either, but now I do. It's not just the world that's making me think so either - I can feel myself getting stupider sometimes, especially when I watch TV.... :P

I'm sorry I wasn't able to get my point across properly. I'm just getting sick and tired of "genders", and it's a personal thing. I don't see gender when I look at people any more, and I barely even notice what they look like.

EDIT: Bisexuality is confusing. I can understand gay, lesbian, even asexuality. I guess I kind of admire bisexuality, seems very non judgemental. I'm more "asexual", so to me it's mostly all a big mystery.

[Didgevillage]

Transgenderism has existed in many cultures and religions, i.e. it's hard to tell whether some deities (angels) are male or female.
People can believe in whatever they choose, and no harm done.

Nonetheless, today's transgenderism is different. It follows a definite agenda: the New World Order.
I look at who is promoting today's transgenderism and draw my own conclusions.

[XelNaga]

Dear Avalon friends,

I have to apologise in advance to all who I'm going to offend right now, as that is not my intention.

But think about this, for people who are not self-aware, or not self-aware enough, the worst insult is to tell them the truth. As it is said, the truth hurts the most.

Whenever I see a discussion about gay/trans people, when someone mentions that those "conditions" are mental illness, all hell breaks loose.

Does it mean that that is the truth, maybe that is why everyone with that condition gets triggered instantly? Not wanting to accept the truth about that "condition"?

PS: if this post is seen as "hate-speech", than please, remove it kind moderators..

[DNA]

Dear Avalon friends,

I have to apologise in advance to all who I'm going to offend right now, as that is not my intention.

But think about this, for people who are not self-aware, or not self-aware enough, the worst insult is to tell them the truth. As it is said, the truth hurts the most.

Whenever I see a discussion about gay/trans people, when someone mentions that those "conditions" are mental illness, all hell breaks loose.

Does it mean that that is the truth, maybe that is why everyone with that condition gets triggered instantly? Not wanting to accept the truth about that "condition"?

PS: if this post is seen as "hate-speech", than please, remove it kind moderators..


Ten years after getting gender reassignment folks are twenty times more likely to commit suicide (https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-here-the-evidence)than their peers. How is this a good idea?

How is it a good idea undergoing a drastic procedure that sucks so bad you become twenty times more likely to commit suicide after having completed it?

[XelNaga]

Dear Avalon friends,

I have to apologise in advance to all who I'm going to offend right now, as that is not my intention.

But think about this, for people who are not self-aware, or not self-aware enough, the worst insult is to tell them the truth. As it is said, the truth hurts the most.

Whenever I see a discussion about gay/trans people, when someone mentions that those "conditions" are mental illness, all hell breaks loose.

Does it mean that that is the truth, maybe that is why everyone with that condition gets triggered instantly? Not wanting to accept the truth about that "condition"?

PS: if this post is seen as "hate-speech", than please, remove it kind moderators..


Ten years after getting gender reassignment folks are twenty times more likely to commit suicide (https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-here-the-evidence)than their peers. How is this a good idea?

How is it a good idea undergoing a drastic procedure that sucks so bad you become twenty times more likely to commit suicide after having completed it?

It is a really, really bad idea.

There is probably a very good reason why we are born the way we are born. I mean, the Universe, or our Higher Self, aren't stupid.

[DNA]

Dear Avalon friends,

I have to apologise in advance to all who I'm going to offend right now, as that is not my intention.

But think about this, for people who are not self-aware, or not self-aware enough, the worst insult is to tell them the truth. As it is said, the truth hurts the most.

Whenever I see a discussion about gay/trans people, when someone mentions that those "conditions" are mental illness, all hell breaks loose.

Does it mean that that is the truth, maybe that is why everyone with that condition gets triggered instantly? Not wanting to accept the truth about that "condition"?

PS: if this post is seen as "hate-speech", than please, remove it kind moderators..


Ten years after getting gender reassignment folks are twenty times more likely to commit suicide (https://www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/sex-reassignment-doesnt-work-here-the-evidence)than their peers. How is this a good idea?

How is it a good idea undergoing a drastic procedure that sucks so bad you become twenty times more likely to commit suicide after having completed it?

It is a really, really bad idea.

There is probably a very good reason why we are born the way we are born. I mean, the Universe, or our Higher Self, aren't stupid.


I'll give my personal opinion on this and it really is just my personal opinion. I've always felt that folks who are born one gender and say they don't feel comfortable in that gender and identify as another gender are folks who have been incarnating as one and the same sex out of some kind of comfort zone thing and at some point their Higher Self is like "dude, it's time to learn things through the other sex" and as such they agree to be born a sex they are not comfortable with in an attempt to learn but they bristle and fight it once they engage in the incarnation opposite what they are used to.

What's wrong with gender fluidity? I'm a dude and I enjoy being a dude, but if I were to be born a woman I would have enjoyed the hell out of that as well.

As a soul I'm a firm believer that we incarnate as both sexes to learn the lessons we were intended to learn.

I suppose if you do not believe in reincarnation then this post is a lot about nothing.

[onawah]

Boosting my own post from earlier in the thread, since it contains what I think is the simplest and most logical explanation of the cause of transgender problems, and it's really not that mysterious.


I attended some classes in the Bay Area years ago that were given by a group of psychics.
Among the subjects that came up were reincarnation, androgeny and homosexuality.
It was generally agreed upon by the psychics (and it seems very likely true to me) that as androgynous souls who have come here (whether willingly or not) we must experience this reality on Earth (though it may be different elsewhere) as both genders, through a series of many incarnations.
But many souls may have a preference for one gender or the other, and so they will choose to incarnate as their chosen gender again and again until the time comes inevitably, when their Higher Self steps in and sees to it that the soul begins to incarnate as their least favorite gender, uncomfortable as that may be.
This can seem like an unnatural ordeal to some, and the changeover may take many lifetimes to achieve successfully, before the soul adjusts, physically, mentally and emotionally.
Electing to go so far as to have transgender surgery is a manifestation of resistance to a kind of natural law, as OMG said, yet it is certainly permissible karmically.
It is, if nothing else, a sign that that soul is simply not yet willing to take on the characteristics of the unfavorite gender, but it will be a learning experience, in any case.
Things are no doubt less complicated on worlds where the androgynous nature of the soul is more accepted.
But part of 3D experiencing is very much about duality, and that can certainly create a lot of complications.
Though we can also look at it as an interesting experience, of course!

[XelNaga]

I agree with you DNA and Onawah, to me it also sounds as the most logical explanation.

Getting out of your "comfort-zone" can be a bit hard ;)

[frankstien]

Confusion over sexuality has been primarily caused by sexual repression in society: government, religion, schools, and family

People are made to feel guilty about their sexual thoughts and feelings from a very early age, this causes the individual, both male and female, to try and hide their sexual feelings. To hide them the body and mind become involved to hold back the energy associated with sexuality. This causes an armoring of the mind and body preventing natural sexuality from developing in the individual, leading to chronic health problems and neurosis.

The Trobriand Islanders had a matriarchal sexually open society--they had no crime, perversion, or neurosis.
Anthropologist Dr. Bronislaw Malinowski, did a study on their way of life and wrote an excellent book all about his discoveries called The Sexual Life of Savages, book available here--
https://archive.org/details/sexuallifeofsava00mali

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.gr-assets.com%2Fimages%2FS%2Fcompressed.photo.goodreads.com%2Fbooks%2F1387703300i%2F19669519._UY200_.jp g&f=1

Dr. Wilhelm Reich was the leader in exposing how sexual repression damages the individual and wrote many important books on this subject.
The Nazis went after him and he fled, eventually to America. Unfortunately the FDA went after him as well. Besides shaking the establishment's cage, he had found a natural way to reverse the effects of cancer. The FDA trumped up a way to put him in prison and burned his books in an incinerator in New York City. Reich died in prison.

These books are a great starting point for understanding his work and how it relates to this forum thread--
(The Theodore P. Wolfe translations are the best.)
1. The Function of The Orgasm
2. The Mass Psychology of Fascism

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.bA1KVOVi0Dx76Ge6p7Jz1gAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.IfO7tDnA0Tik0m5TJ45G3AHaL9%26pid%3DApi&f=1
Copy available here: http://whale.to/b/reich.pdf

Short documentary on Wilhelm Reich "Man's Right To Know"

gNYmBDvSwOw

[Omni]

transexuality is a mental illness in my opinion.

[greybeard]

My feeling is.
Make the best of what your born with.
Cant see that surgery or any other way of changing your gender is going to bring lasting happiness.
However if that's a persons choice, then that's their decision.
Chris

[petra]

transexuality is a mental illness in my opinion.

That kind of insinuates you can cure it. And I don't think so.

EDIT: I should probably also say though, I don't think they want to be "healed" or "cured", but then again I can't speak on behalf of transexuals, I don't know what they think like.

[Didgevillage]

But think about this, for people who are not self-aware, or not self-aware enough, the worst insult is to tell them the truth. As it is said, the truth hurts the most.

Why should you apologize? You are not attacking anyone, even if there are some trangenders here.
How much truth can be told (without personal attacks, of course) determines the quality of any given platform.



Whenever I see a discussion about gay/trans people, when someone mentions that those "conditions" are mental illness, all hell breaks loose.

It is not just the trans issue where "all hell breaks loose."



Does it mean that that is the truth, maybe that is why everyone with that condition gets triggered instantly? Not wanting to accept the truth about that "condition"?

Absolute yes. It is called Pavlovian conditioning. And those thus conditioned don't even know that they have been conditioned to react that way (whether they are trans or not).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

[SubjectCCCIX]

Everyone has a battle thats important to them, some are just louder about it than others.

[TargeT]

Everyone has a battle thats important to them, some are just louder about it than others.

and it's usually a VERY SMALL FEW that are so Loud that situations seem vastly larger than they are.

as of 2016 transgenders make up around .6% of the population... why are we talking about this at all with those numbers... LGBTWQIJRTZ:DJTSJSGJTSX (what ever that collection of letters is up to) is only as high a ~7% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States#:~:text=A%20different%20survey%20in%202016,adult%20population %20identifying%20as%20LGBT).


These are tiny amounts of people "over all" and they are "sucking all the air out of the room" IMO.... the fact that we focus on these tiny problems shows us how decadent our society has become.

[Chris Gilbert]

Normally I'm a live and let live person. Several years back I would have been inclined to say transgender/queer is just another genetic and behavioral variation in the human species.

Now though, I'm not so sure. Reason being, I have meet a fair share gay/lesbian people who were calm and well-adjusted. So far as I can tell, most of them are happy with just being able to marry/adopt and not being shamed.

Whenever I encounter self-described transgender/queer individuals however, they always seem to have a host of other mental health issues. Greater social acceptance doesn't seem to be enough either, as their interests always seem to be tied to "tearing down heteronormative/cis standards". It's one thing to say your personality doesn't fit into cultural expectations of how most men/women act. When I was growing up I wasn't like most guys my age, as I was more passive and had little interest in sports.

It's quite another thing though to be at war with your biology. Biology is what it is regardless of what your personality is like, and that's why it's frowned upon to let biological males into the same bathroom as young girls. There might be extreme cases where the suffering from dysphoria is changed by surgery, but as has been mentioned, the long time suicide rate still casts doubt on it.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Men built this world. It is about destroying the legacy of manhood. What better way than to introduce a fluid gender controversy to further confuse men. Maleness has been a bad word since I was a teen. We have been under economic attack for a long time, since before women entered the work force. Our paychecks are dwindling, our pride is a shame, our strength a weakness, our ability to weather any storm derided. Even our biological imperative to procreate has been used against us and called misogyny.

If two breasts lead to interest and further lead to male genitalia, why not just follow through? What's the difference? Just like the chinese knock-off, a TS looks like the real thing until you get it home. Then you find out it only looks like the real thing and is really only a facsimile, a wish, a ruse, a play on reality. You can pretend, you can dress it up and make it look real but it ain't nothing but a sham, an empty promise, an illusion.

Is the wish to be something one is not, taken to the ridiculous extent of parody, a mental illness?

We are told that it is not. We are told that biology made a mistake, that this male should have been born female. Who are we to say otherwise, it is not our concern, and it is a private matter. But what happens when this very private matter is aired in public, shoved in the faces of those it does not concern, like drag queen story time, for instance? Does making a very rare disorder, common knowledge help those facing this dilemna? Or does it in fact encourage others who are on the fence, only mildly affected, take the drastic step of cosmetic surgery and hormone therapy?

Airing this sort of dirty laundry in public only makes for an out of proportion reaction from the public, disproportionate to the numbers actually involved. It establishes a minority position for an unhealthy sub-sector that would benefit far more from psychological help than receiving sex-altering procedures and parading around as if they are normal.

Constructing a systemic highway from out of the closet to off with the penis is at best a sideways move, it does not address the core issue. There should be some talk, a bit of soul-searching, a little time to think it through. It should never be fast-tracked and accepted as normal. It does not serve those affected by this possible malady.

[TargeT]

It is about destroying the legacy of manhood.

I'd say there are multiple attacks, undermining masculinity is just one of them; destroying the "Family unit" and "individuality" (https://fee.org/articles/5-things-marx-wanted-to-abolish-besides-private-property/) are TWO of the 10 planks of communism.


A lot of what I see today seems to be at least strangely parallel if not seemingly direct continuation of this fight between our Republic and the concept of Communism (in one of its forms).