Enlightenment - are you there yet?

[picloud]

Does anyone here believe they are enlightened?

If so (or not), what's your definition of enlightenment? How did it happen (or why aren't you as you define to be enlightened)?

If you answered yes to the first question, what does it mean to you to be enlightened?

I'll start off by saying that I don't believe I'm enlightened, because I imagine it to be a transformed state that is doubtless. However, I'm on the path and I'm aware that I'm headed that way, and I believe that if I continue on this path of awareness, I'll achieve enlightenment before my time is up. From that point (when I become enlightened) I believe I'll discard all false beliefs about myself as conditioned by the perceptions of "this reality we blindly accept" and see myself for what I truly am. That truth is as yet unknown to me.

[StandingWave]

This is a great post - many thanks for offering it for our contemplation!

Is this 'enlightenment' a matter of belief? For instance, do you 'believe' that you exist? Is existence a matter of understanding and belief - or direct, unmediated Knowing (apperception)? I mean, how long does it take to answer the question 'do you exist'? Can there be any doubt that you do? Is there a process by which you can become what you already are?

'Enlightenment' cannot be claimed by anyone as it is essentialy the apperception of there not being a separate entity or character in a life story apart from the direct and timeless experience of Being. The sense of Being and the experience/perception of a 'world' arise and subside together, so they must be a single unit: One.

Experiencing.

[TargeT]

Enlightenment is a nice jacket that the ego likes to wear, it seems to be used as an exclusive term, not an inclusive one.

as such, I am not enlightened, nor do I think I ever will be.

Life's a journey, don't forget to enjoy it!

[RockShan]

Telling if you are enlightened or not is a tricky task, especially when considering your definition of enlightenment. Based on my experience enlightenment is when you come out of "Forgetfulness", the natural cycle of death and rebirth. (Gnostic Gospels), I do not believe myself to be enlightened but will work towards it threw my lifetime however long that may be. In order to gain enlightenment you must find the secret knowledge taught by many, "Messengers of Light", which are mainly the Ancient Religious, or philosophical teachers, as well as very few in the present time. I shouldn't really say "Secret Knowledge", for the knowledge has been shared but many prefer to ignore it.

[soul]

Some think that enlightenment is a very tangible experience.

[Kryztian]

I think of "enlighten" as a verb, not a noun. It's a process. We are all finding new light. We are all lightening our burden. I don't know if any human has achieved a state of perfect "enlightenment", but there are some who claim they are and if you call their toll free number and pull out your credit card, operators are standing by to help share their secrets of success.

[greybeard]

Enlightenment is not an experience (those come and go)--its the removal of ignorance---ie that you are a separate individual.
On enlightenment, realisation of the one Self there is no one left to claim enlightenment.
Tims thread linked below really says it without opinions.
Chris

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?43027-Enlightenment-A-direct-succinct-account-of-what-occurs...&p=456904&viewfull=1#post456904

[Heart-2-Heart]

Jesus said ..

I am in the Father ..we all are ...all life is in the Father ...Call it God ..Nature ..Creator ..whatever suits you most..

Then he said ..the Father is in me ..He somehow realised that he is not this bag of bones ... with all the titles that goes

with having a body ..I am this and I am that (businessman ...businesswoman ..carpenter..plummer baker ..etc..

So He removed all the nonsens ..which is a heavy burden for a serious seeker .. ( Maya -Illussion ) when that is removed

a frequency change happened ...a higher vibration ...I .my ..me ...and ....mine ...disapeared ..It can not excist on the



higher level of consciousness...it is also called awareness in consciousness ...(like .. Be Here Now ) what most of us

struggles with

due to old habits ...and obligations in daily life ...Work...Shopping ...Family ...etc ...

Try to tell a man who just came home from a hard days Work that he was not in the ..Here and Now ..and you are in big

Trouble..

But Jesus knew the difference by experience ..( Enligtenment ) ...and could declare

The Father and I am one

I wish everybody here a nice journey ...and don't be too hard on yourself

H2h

[greybeard]

Well H2H you dont post that often but when you do, you certainly do.--my old friend.
Much love
Chris

[ZooLife]

To me enlightenment, as a word/ concept, is a reminder of sorts that there is 'something' that the mind cannot conceive of. If it could conceive of 'it', it would be of the mind and thus not 'enlightenment'.

Words are tricksters because our minds think we know something by having words for it. Words are okay for temporal needs and road signs but ........

The closer one gets to 'enlightenment' the more contradictory words become until they simply fall away........

The King is clothed in words but that is contradictory for the King has no clothes. How will we then know who the King is if we cannot identify by appearances? Exactly.

Am I enlightened? Contextually and conceptually...... no.

[Hervé]

[...]
... From that point (when I become enlightened) I believe I'll discard all false beliefs about myself as conditioned by the perceptions of "this reality we blindly accept" and see myself for what I truly am. That truth is as yet unknown to me.

Could it be the other way around?

That is, unless one makes room for "enlightment" to occur by discarding all beliefs and programmings, then what's left is "true."

[uzn]

1st of all dont get jesus into this, Jesus is a pseudonym for the sun, and of course the sun is enlightened, not only that but the sun also enlightens everything around.
2nd important thing: Dont mistake awakening with enlightenment.

Now to the main question:
When we look at Buddha. He got his enlightment when he sat under the tree (u know the story). Important thing here is that then it hit him he started to smile ! Thats a really mild reaction. Most people that reach enlightment start to laugh for quite same time. Because it is the moment where all makes sense. They could not see it before in all its glory and simplicity, thats why most start laughing.
Make no mistake about it, when it hits you, you will know. If you still ask yourself if you might be enlightened then you have not reached that point.

I for my part are still learning and expanding my knowledge on a daily basis, so here is a "not there yet" from me. I know more than the average joe, but thats no achievement really. A smart man once said (forgot his name): He who knows one thing for sure, knows more than most humans.

[DNA]

Enlightenment is a moment and rarely a constant state of being. The reason it is only a moment is because it is a point in your life where there is a rare convergence of intellect and proper energy or Qi flow. This is difficult if not impossible to maintain.

[WhiteLove]

If you answered yes to the first question, what does it mean to you to be enlightened?


Truth awareness, Christ being, being without fear. I am enlightened and to me it means to have had experience of true unconditional love beyond the human experience of unconditional love and having become aware of the fact that creation is an infinite miracle. When you go through a soul fusion process and have memory of it, without doubt you return from that in an enlightened state.

Once you've had such an experience of creation, it means that I need to be in the truth contained in that enlightenment to the best of my ability, so that this truth helps to enlighten others by clearing their limitations and false beliefs on their terms without breaking their free will. Being enlightened is to me getting a glimpse into total truth through own personal experience and being aware of what it is like to be where there is true peace.

So enlightenment is for me about having fully reached your own definition of unconditional love, having experienced God's definition of unconditional love and you understand the difference. I consider anyone who has gone through such a process to definitely be enlightened (inclusively speaking). But there are many levels to enlightenment, you can for instance be in a deep belief about all of this, so that although you have not experienced it you still in your heart feel it is true, so that you use your free will to accept this Christ consciousness.

God loves us all and it is the greatest love of all!

[raff]

Here's a little joke. To answer your question am i enlightened? The answer is yes. I am enlightened. If i am a multi dimensional being then there is one part that knows the whole journey and my selves. The joke is that just because I'm enlightened doesn't mean that I'm happy with it (ok sorry not funny just a private joke)

[greybeard]

Another joke.
"The enlightened were invited to an event---No one turned up."

Chris

[Pam]

I had a experience which may have been similar to what Eckhardt Tolle described as his transforming experience, although mine was not permanent. I was practicing a technique that was meant to stall the chattering mind. I had been experiencing a period of depression and agitation , which meant that my inner conversation was negative and incessant. I was desperate for relief from myself. All of a sudden I experienced a strange sensation in my head, sort of a collapsing experience, followed by a calmness. I proceeded to fall asleep.

The next morning I woke up, I experienced the greatest calmness and inner joy that I had ever known. There was no inner conversation and instead there was a feeling of pure joy and acceptance. This lasted for a period of several days and then the chattering started to slowly work its way back in. I did maintain a very great benefit from this. I realize the nature of the chatter and that I don't need to buy into it. I see it for what it is, which in my case, mostly nonsense. I also know now that spiritual advancement really is a process of removing layers to reveal the "ever new joy" that is hidden under egoic constructs.

[greybeard]

In India the enlightened sages are known to be God realised.
They have been known to declare "I am the totality, all of it"
The Western mind has a challenge with statements like this--however mind has a problem with letting go of many things.

Chris

[PurpleLama]

One may gain insight when one considers the place of the Devil in the three temptations of Christ is nothing less than the operation of his human mind.

From Matthew:

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him

Take it in context with Chris' statement above, and peterpam's above that. What Christ taught was a more inclusive and abstract deity than the Yahwism that his teaching was later twisted in to.

[Hervé]

Well, some of you might benefit from this work and the "veteran" might enjoy the author's "point of view": The Children of The Law of One & The Lost Teachings of Atlantis (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/children-lawofone-lost-teachings-atlantis.pdf) (PDF file)
(http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/children-lawofone-lost-teachings-atlantis.pdf)

... and NO, it's not from that "Divine Cosmos" nor the "Ra" material :)

[binemaya]

hi :-)
"enlightenment is not imagining figures of light but making the darkness conscious" CG Jung
in this sense we all are enlightened, at least sometimes :happy dog:
bb
maya

[picloud]

One may gain insight when one considers the place of the Devil in the three temptations of Christ is nothing less than the operation of his human mind.

From Matthew:

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him

Take it in context with Chris' statement above, and peterpam's above that. What Christ taught was a more inclusive and abstract deity than the Yahwism that his teaching was later twisted in to.

Coincidentally I came across this story in the Bible after a meditation session left me with a clear message to read a passage "Luke chapter 4 until verse 13" with emphasis on the numbers 1 and 3 (pointing to temptation 1 and 3). I had no idea what Luke 4:1-13 was going to uncover until I finished meditating and looked it up online... I felt there was a lesson in it and my interpretation is quite deep so I won't go into it here... but anyway I find it strange that you mention that passage when I was looking it up VERY recently (and it's not something I do often or ever really). Makes you think haha

[bettye198]

In my own perception I believe enlightenment is two things. It is remembering and resonating. If something spiritual appeals to you, investigate. It may be the beginning of a resonance and then what comes of it, may be quite enlightening. This was my own personal event that led me to becoming enlightened as best as one can be in manifest Earth. :Angel:

[Leon55]

I see enlightenment as the state of non-duality. It happens when you realize you are the observer of your thoughts and that you can control your thoughts and stop them from appearing. This moment of no-thinking, that's a state of enlightenment.

I wouldn't call myself an enlightened person, but I am a person who enters the state of enlightenment every now and again. I'm still learning to control my thoughts and my ego and therefore I'm not fully enlightened yet.

[TraineeHuman]

There's a problem with verbalizing about enlightenment, and even about what we experience/be through any of our higher faculties, such as (genuinely accurate) intuition. The problem I'm referring to is that conceptual analysis and language simply can't capture the full reality of it. Not by a long chalk. Conceptual reason is way too limited, too partial, too inadequate, too divisive, however indispensable it may be for our life in the everyday social and physical world. Mind itself is just a gateway, or training wheels, to something higher than itself.

Better, I suggest, to just learn to experience the sheer delight of existence, of being alive, and even delight in whatever lies within us in subconscious sleep as it struggles to emerge while at the same time we consciously struggle to find ourselves or transcend ourselves.

Some well-meaning seekers confuse enlightenment with the faithful repetition of formulas that have been bequeathed to us from no doubt enlightened individuals from centuries ago. But that's not "it" either, at all.

At first one usually gets flashes of enlightenment. Then there's the direct discovery of certain profound secrets that support but lie beyond the sphere of the life-force and of the world.

[Soda]

Enlightenment is a nice jacket that the ego likes to wear, it seems to be used as an exclusive term, not an inclusive one.

as such, I am not enlightened, nor do I think I ever will be.

Life's a journey, don't forget to enjoy it!

You got that right.

[picloud]

There's a problem with verbalizing about enlightenment, and even about what we experience/be through any of our higher faculties, such as (genuinely accurate) intuition. The problem I'm referring to is that conceptual analysis and language simply can't capture the full reality of it. Not by a long chalk. Conceptual reason is way too limited, too partial, too inadequate, too divisive, however indispensable it may be for our life in the everyday social and physical world. Mind itself is just a gateway, or training wheels, to something higher than itself.

Better, I suggest, to just learn to experience the sheer delight of existence, of being alive, and even delight in whatever lies within us in subconscious sleep as it struggles to emerge while at the same time we consciously struggle to find ourselves or transcend ourselves.

Some well-meaning seekers confuse enlightenment with the faithful repetition of formulas that have been bequeathed to us from no doubt enlightened individuals from centuries ago. But that's not "it" either, at all.

At first one usually gets flashes of enlightenment. Then there's the direct discovery of certain profound secrets that support but lie beyond the sphere of the life-force and of the world.

TraineeHuman,

My favorite post in this thread thus far! I concur with all that you've written... Thank you for your post.

Another thought:

I meditated on the nature of our experience of reality recently and came across a bit of a "dead end" with specific regards to Self in death. What I mean by "dead end" is that it seems to me that it is a futile endeavor to try and comprehend what experience or reality awaits us. As we're aware, we deal with the 3rd dimension in our day to day existence. This dimension is supposedly supported by the 1st and 2nd and the 4th (and above) are out of our range of comprehension (though we can theorize and discuss its mechanics). Many believe the 4th dimension to be one in which time is not experienced as we do (where we see ourselves moving through time in a sort of linear fashion which has a direction) but it is experienced as a whole - one could "experience/see" all one's stages through life from birth to death... And this says two things (for the sake of this argument). The fact that you can experience the entire set of events that make up your "living" existence on Earth including the moment of death suggests that this dimension doesn't rely on consciousness being confined to the body. Firstly because to experience all events in such a way requires some objective consciousness that remains intact regardless of the "moment" in time of your death, which if consciousness in the 4th dimension was reliant upon the body, would cease to be as it (death) is at any/every moment because the whole experience of time is inclusive of your physical death. Secondly, for this reason, I assume it means that life is merely a specific experience that consciousness goes through (as we do in the 3rd dimension) and comes out of to enter the 4D reality.

So, is 4D the dimension of the afterlife? Could be. This would have many implications that I won't go into now as they are almost endless but I'm sure you can grasp the magnitude.

Food for thought anyway.

[conk]

Just to be on the path as a seeker is a personal achievement of some importance. Most never step foot on the road and their awareness languishes in the depths of ignorance.

[greybeard]

Just to be on the path as a seeker is a personal achievement of some importance. Most never step foot on the road and their awareness languishes in the depths of ignorance.

Yes Conk its a "blessing".
I think you have read some of the late Dr David Hawkins books.
He constructed a map of consciousness which gave the % of people seeking enlightenment as very low
It surprises me that the number of guests who access the threads on enlightenment here far out numbers the Avalon members who visit.
That's life.
Best wishes to you Conk
Chris

[Ultima Thule]

I was for a while - but then it went out of style.
:P
:focus:

UT
Ps. When in body we long for enlightenment and spiritual matters, to be out of body. I suppose when in spirit form, we may long to be back in physical body - does the spirit strive for un-enlightenment? Would enlightenment be for one part accepting what I am here now and not anymore wanting to be somewhere else?

[Ulyse30]

Lorsque "je",j'ai,mon moi intérieur et supérieur,mon être,mon âme,s'illumine c'est fantastique en soi-même et surtout pour l'âme en soi,l'illumination ce fait sur Terre et ailleurs aussi,pour moi!! C'est un périple de volonté et de foi pour 38 années de dure l'abeurre,...j'ai quitté le foyer terrestre à quelques reprises et à certains moments de ma vie à mon retour dans mon corps d'humain,j'ai eux des problèmes avec certaines antitées "pas" amical du tout,je veux seulement le préciser pour être franc et honnête avec tout le monde ici!!!
Évidemment que mon être va continuer sur la voie de l'illumination et le chemin de la guérison!!
Merci!!