EgyptAir flight 804 disappears en route from Paris to Cairo

[Callista]

BREAKING!

FROM RT https://www.rt.com/news/343502-egyptair-plane-paris-cairo-disappears/

EgyptAir flight 804 disappears en route from Paris to Cairo with over 60 on board

An EgyptAir flight carrying at least 59 passengers and 10 crew members went off the radar after departing from Paris and heading to Cairo, the airline said in a brief statement.
“An informed source at EGYPTAIR stated that Flight No. MS804, which departed Paris at 23:09 (CEST), heading to Cairo has disappeared from radar,” the airline said on its Twitter.

https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.05/original/573d2f3bc4618858118b4568.jpg

Flight MS804 left Charles de Gaulle Airport at 11:09 pm on Wednesday Paris time and was expected to arrive in Cairo by 3 am on Thursday. A direct flight usually takes just over four hours.

The Egyptian government has released no comment on the incident so far.


EgyptAir tweeted out that the flight disappeared from radar at 2:45 am Cairo time, when the plane was at an altitude of 37,000 feet (11,300 meters) and around 10 miles (16 kilometers) inside Egyptian airspace.

[Ellisa]

It seems from the map showing where it went down that someone must have seen it falling. The area is not remote and is actually very busy with all sorts of traffic. This is the (I think) 5th plane to just vanish from the radar recently and often the reason is human influence of one sort or another. Hopefully it will be found safely, as happened to the one that was hi-jacked to Cyprus.

[KiwiElf]

Live updates here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/may/19/egyptair-plane-cairo-paris-live-updates

[Althena]

Flight path shows it flying over CERN? Like German Wings.

[Callista]

Go here for Flight radar

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ms804#9c0b766

[Althena]

And I'm flying back home in a couple hours today. Joy

[mosquito]

Flight path shows it flying over CERN? Like German Wings.

No it doesn't. CERN is located to the West of Lake Geneva, near the border with France.

And even if it did, so what ? The plane (apparently) crashed near the Egyptian coast.

[Agape]

Rescuers are trying to locate an EgyptAir Paris-Cairo flight that disappeared off radar screens over the Mediterranean Sea with 66 people aboard just minutes before it was expected to land.


Egyptian military unit received distress signal from EgyptAir MS804 plane at 0226 GMT – Egypt's Civil Aviation Ministry.


The statement said flight MS804 went missing at 00:30 GMT rather than at 00:45 GMT, as initially reported.

https://www.rt.com/news/343512-egyptair-missing-flight-search/


It does not make much sense to me yet ( the timing ) . But if they were hijacked ( with 3 'security experts' onboard ) it's somewhere in Iraq now.

[Althena]

Flight path shows it flying over CERN? Like German Wings.

No it doesn't. CERN is located to the West of Lake Geneva, near the border with France.

And even if it did, so what ? The plane (apparently) crashed near the Egyptian coast.

Relax, it's just a comment.

[Bill Ryan]

Flight path shows it flying over CERN? Like German Wings.

No it doesn't. CERN is located to the West of Lake Geneva, near the border with France.

And even if it did, so what ? The plane (apparently) crashed near the Egyptian coast.

Relax, it's just a comment.

A pretty silly one, too! :facepalm:

Update from the BBC (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36309492), as of just now:





The EgyptAir flight reported missing between Paris and Cairo has crashed, French President Francois Hollande confirmed.

The Airbus A320 with 66 people on board disappeared from radar at 02:30 Cairo time (00:30 GMT), soon after leaving Greek airspace.

Greece's defence minister says Flight MS804 made "sharp turns" and plunged before dropping off the radar.

A major search is under way in seas south of the Greek island of Karpathos.

Greek and Egyptian armed forces are involved in the effort, and France has offered to send boats and planes.

Live updates here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-36328976)

[Agape]

Following The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/may/19/egyptair-plane-cairo-paris-live-updates) updates ,
it seems there's either massive security operation underway in EU or something stranger .
My O2 internet connection was down since last hour or two ( but mobile connection stays on ) and when I called either of the technical hotlines they're 'deaf' .
It's very unusual they'd be deaf.




http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/planes-grounded-at-stockholm-airports/news-story/dd8d1c5b483ff8fc058ffd352bbcbb43

Flights to and from Sweden's main airports are set to resume after a computer glitch that grounded planes for hours at Stockholm and Gothenburg was fixed.
"The communications problem that affected air traffic during the day is now resolved and we are working to gradually increase capacity," the air traffic authority, LFV, said in a statement on Thursday.
Traffic at Stockholm's main airport, Arlanda, which handled 23.2 million passengers last year, was halted for several hours, as was that at the capital's second airport, Bromma, and Gothenburg's Landvetter.
Air traffic control officials at Bromma told Dagens Nyheter newspaper that the incident was not terrorism-related.
The state-owned railway company SJ said on Thursday that its booking system was down because of a technical problem.
Last year a solar flare brought down radar at the Stockholm and Gothenburg airports for several hours, delaying flights.
Originally published as Swedish air traffic glitch solved

Other reports claim it was problem with 'radar installation'

http://news.trust.org/item/20160519110120-o5nxt/

STOCKHOLM, May 19 (Reuters) - Problems with radar installations have reduced traffic at Gothenburg airport, Swedavia Swedish Airports said on Thursday, widening a problem that has stopped traffic over the capital Stockholm.

"Because of technical problems with Luftfartsverkets radar installations, there is reduced traffic at Swedavias airports," Swedavia said in a public notice on Gothenburg Landvetter airport's website.

A spokesman at Luftfartsverket, the air traffic authority, said Arlanda and Bromma airports in Stockholm and Landvetter had been affected.

[stevcolx]

Now the reports are saying the plane made sudden swerves. That could only happen if it was being chased down by and Air to Air Missile! Who could have that I wonder? The plane was flying through Israeli / Greek airspace. So who has the technology to do this? Doesn't take a genius to work it out.

Mossad are desperate to shut-down the tourist income of all it's neighbouring Arabian nations. This has all the hallmarks of a Mossad Shoot Down!

That's my opinion anyway!

[Hervé]

From a PPRuNe post:


... does this mean descent below the level covered by radar between two pings? that seems very fast to me.
Antiquated idea of how "radar" works these days. What controllers see on their screens is a transmission from the aircraft (transponder, or as Airbubba says, now ADS-B). A flip of an on/off switch in the cockpit can make a plane "disappear" instantaneously. As can anything that cuts off the transmission: loss of electrical power, loss of airframe continuity. The aircraft does not have to "descend below radar coverage."

The old-school, bouncing radio waves off aluminum, primary radar is available if desired, but if the aircraft is now a descending shower of confetti, won't help much after the fact. It will take some time to check the primary returns on tape to see what shows up there.

All we really know right now is that the aircraft abruptly ceased transmitting while still at 37000 feet.

[Hervé]

...

http://s32.postimg.org/z157vnu85/image.jpg

http://s32.postimg.org/6zr6hyoxx/image.jpg

http://s32.postimg.org/vdpgplm11/image.jpg
Photos credit, captain of Maersk Ahram


Greek state television now reporting that Greek planes taking part in the SAR have spotted debris in the form of "large orange chunks" that are thought to belong to the missing plane. Similar reports are coming from the Greek SAR Coordination Center and the Hellenic Coastguard. The MOD has not yet confirmed the report.



@LBCI_News_EN Missing #Egyptair aircraft debris found south of #Greek island of Karpathos in southern Mediterranean - Greek state TV




No am not on board any vessel , am connected through maersk ahram captain and the photos and updates are his. I am just sharing the info.
Mo122 (http://www.pprune.org/members/451396-mo122) Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Egypt Posts: 12

[Bob]

This is going to be a large technical post.

I have discussed the situation with the "screws" the so called "screw-jacks" which are used to control the rudder, the elevator, the surfaces required to keep the airplane flying straight and level..

If one of the screws gets stuck, the plane will crash, without control.

It seems to me it is ludicrous to start talking bombs, or terrorists taking down a plane which is known to have such screw-jack problems. I would call is speculation sensationalism calling this a terrorist attack, while continuing to IGNORE the safety issues with the tail stabilizer, and rudder..

Safety issues with numerous crashes have resulted in emergency recalls for PROMPT service to those essential parts.

The description of the plane loosing control, making abrupt turns, then a forced spiraling decent matches stuck stabilizer/rudder failure.. ANYWAY, here is the research article from Global Research (http://www.globalresearch.ca/ground-the-airbus/14025) (references are cited in the link).

It starts with a question - "GROUND THE AIRBUS?"


http://www.globalresearch.ca/ground-the-airbus/14025

Since entering service in 1974 with many technological innovations, such as computerized fly-by-wire control systems, user-friendly cockpits, and extended use of composite materials, 5,717 aircraft have been manufactured by Airbus, an European aerospace company. More than 5,100 Airbuses remain in service.

Not including losses attributable to terrorism, rebellion or military action, Airbuses have been involved in 23 fatal crashes causing the deaths of 2,584 passengers, crew members and people on the ground. In addition, there have been five nonfatal accidents causing 21 serious injuries.

While the overall number of accidents and fatalities are not disproportionate to the crash experience of Boeing aircraft, three of the Airbus crashes involved a separation of the composite vertical stabilizer (tail fin) from the fuselage. Five hundred, or one in five of the Airbus deaths, including 228 from Air France Flight 447, resulted from these three crashes.

In addition, Airbus composite stabilizers, rudders and couplers have also been involved in a number of other emergency in-flight incidents that did not lead to crashes, injuries or deaths.

There is now a question whether all Airbus aircraft equipped with composite stabilizers and rudders should be grounded until the cause of the crash of Flight 447 can be identified and it can be determined if the aircraft can be inspected, safely repaired, and returned to service.

Used in law, science and philosophy, a rule known as Occam’s Razor requires that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex, and/or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities.

We do not know if Air France Flight 447 was brought down by a lightning storm, a failure of speed sensors, rudder problems or pilot error. What we do know is that its plastic tail fin fell off and the plane fell almost seven miles into the ocean killing everyone aboard.

What are Composites?

The essential definition of a plastic is the capability of being molded or modeled. Thus, the word can be accurately used to describe the various processes by which “composite” materials are coated, laminated and shaped into the various structures used in the construction of an aircraft.

Basically, a composite “indicates the use of different materials that provide strengths, light weight, or other functional benefits when used in combination that they cannot provide when used separately. They usually consist of a fibre-reinforced resin matrix. The resin can be a vinyl ester, epoxy, or polyester, while the reinforcement might be any of a variety of fibres, ranging from glass through carbon, boron, and a number of proprietary types.” [1]

There are both advantages and disadvantages to using plastic composites instead of metal. They “have lower density and greater strength and stiffness than aluminum, therefore a smaller lighter structure can carry the same load.” [2]

Composite materials can be shaped and molded far easier than aluminum into compound curves for maximum drag reduction and it is easier to get smooth surfaces for laminar flow designs which allows for increased speeds. [3]

Among the risks of using plastic composites are: (a.) Strengths varies from batch to batch and it’s difficult to detect voids; (b.) lightning protection is very poor since the material does not conduct electricity; c.) materials degrade in the sun due to ultraviolet rays; (d.) delamination problems are caused by moisture; and (e.) composites tend to break without warning at failure loads, unlike aluminum which can bend and still survive and usually provide some warning prior to failure. [4]

If plastic composites “are bumped, beaten or excessively shaken, they can develop microscopic cracks that, if allowed to fester, can widen and critically weaken” the material. Delamination is another concern “in which heat, cold, humidity or manufacturing errors cause layers of the composite to separate.” [5]

Use of Composites by Airbus

The first “composite” materials used in aircraft construction consisted of plastic-impregnated wood, such as that used by Howard Hughes in his famous “flying boat” in World War II. [6]

As experience was gained through the use of fiberglass, the aircraft industry began to occasionally use composites for nonstructural applications, such as baggage doors. By the Sixties, at about the time Airbus was being created, the aircraft industry was prepared to consider using plastic materials in more critical structures.

The essence of designing and constructing a heavier-than-air flying machine is to make it as light and strong as possible. Although the initial cost of using plastic is higher than metal, the expense is offset over the long haul by lower fuel costs. Allan McArtor, Chairman of Airbus North America, said “Composites save weight, saving weight saves fuel, and saving fuel is better for the environment and for our customer’s bottom lines.” [7]

Starting in 1974, Airbus used plastic materials in its new A300 series aircraft, but only in secondary areas such as the leading edges of the tail fin. The A310 series introduced in 1978 featured a composite tail fin box, along with a number of additional applications. [8]

Ten years later, in 1988, Airbus began delivery of the A320 with an all composite tail fin, and construction of vertical stabilizers from plastic composites became the standard for all its aircraft. [9]

The vast majority of all commercial aircraft ever manufactured by Airbus remain in service, most of which are equipped with plastic tail fins, rudders and couplers.

Almost 25 percent of the new Airbus A380, which can seat more than 800 passengers on two decks, is constructed of composite materials. For the first time, the wings of the aircraft are stabilized and attached to the fuselage using a composite center wing-box, and the plane is equipped with a plastic vertical stabilizer that is almost 79 feet in length, nearly the height of an eight-story building. [10]

The A380 is already being flown in commercial service by several airlines, including Singapore and Qantas on trans-Pacific trips.

Missed Opportunities to Avoid Air France Flight 447 Disaster

A series of in-flight emergency incidents and fatal crashes extending back 12 years provide a clear record of missed opportunities to correct what increasingly appears to be a basic design error in Airbus commercial aircraft that may have caused the crash of Air France Flight 447.

May 12, 1997 – Aboard American Airlines Flight 903 Over Miami, Florida. Following an uneventful flight from Boston, the pilots of an Airbus A300-600 carrying 156 people were preparing to land at the Miami airport, when they were advised to go into a holding pattern due to an approaching thunderstorm. [11]

At an altitude of 16,000 feet, the plane suddenly stalled and the “plane rolled to extreme bank angles left and right, and the rudder was moved rapidly back and forth to its in-flight limits. During the event, the airplane was stalled several times and rapidly descended more than 3,000 feet.” [12]

Melanie Joison was sitting with her two children holding her 18-month old daughter in her lap. The child flew from her lap back over three rows of seats where she was caught by another passenger. Ms. Joison suffered five broken ribs. [13]

The pilots declared an emergency, regained control of the aircraft and safely landed. Following a visual inspection in Miami, the plane was flown to New York where a further inspection cleared the plane to be returned to service. [14]

The incident was investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) because a passenger was injured. Although Airbus did not have access to the flight data recorder, it expressed a concern that an urgent inspection was needed because the plane could have reached “ultimate load” the point where force is near the breaking point. [15]

The plane received a more thorough inspection on June 26, 1997 by maintenance crews, who removed the covering over the base of the tail fin and inspected the six lugs that attach the tail to the fuselage. They did not remove the tail and examine the area covered by the fitting attached to the fuselage, and the plane was returned to service. [16]

The NTSB determined that the incident was caused by the flight crew failing to maintain adequate speed to prevent a stall. It did “not mention the rudder reversals or the fact that the tail nearly separated from the plane.” [17]

The plane continued in service for almost five years until after the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 (see below), when an examination of the flight data recorder revealed that the rudder had exceeded its design limit four times in the 1997 incident “during a rapid airspeed change accompanied by rudder inputs.” [18]

Although the Flight 903 pilot made nine rudder reversals during a high rate of speed, which subjected the plane to substantial aerodynamic forces, neither the engines nor tail fin fell off. A subsequent inspection revealed that survival of the craft may have been an engineering miracle. [19]

Between March 4 -11, 2002, the tail was physically removed from the plane and “two marks were found to be visible on the right rear attachment lug, one of six that attaches the fin to the fuselage. During ultrasound inspections, technicians [found] spots where the layers of composite material [had] separated, a condition called delamination.” The right rear lug is in the same area where the tail from Flight 587 first broke away. [20]

Replacement of the tail by American Airlines cost more than $1 million. [21]

November 12, 2001 – Aboard American Airlines Flight 587 Over Queens, New York. Taking off a few minutes behind a Japan Airlines Boeing 747, the pilots of an Airbus A300-650R carrying 251 passengers on a flight from New York City to Santo Domingo quickly experienced air turbulence resulting from a wake vortex caused by the earlier flight.

What the pilots did not know was that, when their plane had been originally delivered in 1988, layers of its plastic tail fin had separated, or delaminated, in the area where it was attached to the fuselage. The defect had been repaired by adding additional layers of plastic and rivets. American Airlines was informed by Airbus that no further inspections of the tail were required. [22]

The pilots did not know that their plane had experienced such severe high altitude air turbulence seven years earlier that 47 people were injured. Nor did they know the extent of any resulting damage was concealed within the plastic tail fin. [23]

Finally, the pilots did not know that their plane was designed with extraordinarily sensitive rudder controls that allowed the rudder to be moved beyond its design limits at low speeds by a movement of approximately one-and-one-half inches on the rudder pedal.

What we do know is that during the next few seconds, a series of right, left, right rudder commands moved the rudder beyond its design limits causing the entire plastic stabilizer to be torn from the fuselage by the force of flowing air.

What we still do not know is why. The pilots were killed along with everyone else aboard the plane and five people on the ground.

With the tail fin and both engines torn from the aircraft, the terror for those aboard, including five infants, was short-lived. The entire flight, from takeoff to impact, only lasted 103 seconds.

Following its investigation, the NTSB “determined that the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer’s unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs.” [24]

Inasmuch as the plane was climbing from takeoff through a steady-state left turn when the turbulence was encountered, there is also the possibility that the first officer either was unintentionally thrown against the rudder pedal, he was unable to exercise such delicate movement of the rudder as to avoid exceeding the limitations of its overly sensitive design, or the rudder’s movements were independent of the pilot’s actions.

Captain Glenn Schafer, an A300 pilot who had flown with both the pilot and first officer of AA587, stated, “Both were excellent, well-seasoned pilots. Nothing I observed while flying with either of them could possibly lead me to conclude they would even attempt to move the rudder around in the fashion the FDR [flight data recorder] says it was moved.” [25]

Schafer argues that, “in a wake turbulence encounter, such as occurred in the accident scenario, a pilot would not normally make a large rudder input and then snap-reverse it at 255 knots, the speed at which the accident airplane was climbing when the tail separated.” He suggested, “a simple exercise with a stopwatch to illustrate that the pilots of Flight 587 could not have moved their feet that quickly.” [26]

An aircraft control engineer supports Captain Schafer by maintaining “that if the pilots caused the rudder motion, it is doubtful, in a wake turbulence encounter, that they would have achieved virtually the same rudder deflection on each swing. The rudder always stopped at 10 degrees, a pattern that could be ‘explained’ by the yaw damper oscillating at its mechanical limit.” [27]

The only information learned from cockpit voice recorder is a series of “rattling” noises as the plane encountered wake vortices generating a lateral force equal to 0.1 the force of gravity. Then, lateral forces equal to 0.3, 0.4 and 0.3 Gs were experienced coexistent with rudder movements. [28]

Early in the investigation, then NTSB Chairperson Marion Blakey said, “We do not know [if those rudder movements] were caused by the pilots.” [29]

In its submission to the NTSB, the Allied Pilots Association pointed out ten previous incidents in which A300 tail fins had been stressed beyond their design limits and stated:

“Airbus designed and produced the A300B2-1a in 1971. Eleven years later, Airbus designed the rudder control unit in a new model called the A300B4-600. This unique design dramatically changed the handling characteristics of the airplane….

“The pilots operating the accident airplane were highly-skilled, fully-qualified, proficient aviators who were never informed of the unusual limitations of their airplane.” [30]

The relatively intact 27-foot-tall stabilizer was found floating in the Jamaica Bay. It was originally connected to the fuselage at six attaching points, each of which had two sets of attachment lugs, one made from plastic, the other of aluminum. They were held together by a titanium bolt. An examination revealed the metal components to be intact and the plastic lugs to be broken. [31]

The NTSB did not find any fault with the composite plastic design of the tail fin; however, it did immediately order a one-time visual inspection of all A300-600 and A310 tail fins within 15 days to look for “edge delaminations, cracked paint, surface distortions, other surface damage, and failure of the transverse (side) load fittings. Similarly, indications of failure of the rudder assembly, which could lead to failure of the vertical stabilizer, may be detectable with such an inspection.” [32]

Ellen Connors, the former chairperson of the NTSB has stated that the report was delayed because of “inappropriate and intense lobbying by Airbus over its contents” and that “the potential for contaminating the investigation exists.” [33]

Following the crash of AA587, United Airlines decided to go beyond the required visual inspection to conduct ultrasound tests on three of its A320 jets, whose plastic tail fins had also been repaired at the factory before delivery. The test found a flaw in a six-year-old A320 on the opposite side of the stabilizer from where the factory defect had been repaired. In spite of the defect, Airbus spokesman David Venz said the defect is in an area that doesn’t support the weight of the tail. He said, “We are confident this airplane is fit to fly.” [34]

Airbus claimed that damage that couldn’t be seen cannot weaken the plastic tail fins and that visual examinations were sufficient. One official said, “Invisible damage cannot produce a significant sub-surface flaw.” [35]

Unconvinced, some American Airlines pilots called for more detailed inspections, such as ultrasound to locate hidden flaws. [36]

More than 20 American Airlines pilots asked to be transferred to Boeing aircraft, “although this meant months of retraining and loss of earnings.” One pilot wrote that “he had refused to let any of his family take an A300 or A310 and had paid extra to take a circuitous route on holiday purely to avoid them.” [37]

Saying there was no way to adequately inspect the plastic tail fins, dozens of American Airlines pilots demanded that the company ground its fleet of Airbus A300 jets until the cause of the crash of AA587 could be determined.

More than 70 pilots signed a statement stating, “Until a definitive cause for the crash of Flight 587 can be determined, along with ways to prevent a similar occurrence, and/or a definitive test can be developed to truly check the structural integrity of the vertical stabilizers of our remaining 34 A300s, I recommend that American Airlines’s fleet of A300s be grounded.” [38]

Weighing in on the side of the pilots, Professor James H. Williams, Jr., of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, School of Engineering, stated that the Airbus position regarding the adequacy of visual inspections was “lamentably naive policy. It is analogous to assessing whether a woman has breast cancer by simply looking at her family portrait.” [39]

Regarding the repairs performed by Airbus on composite tails with discovered defects prior to deliver, Dr. Williams states, “Such repairs of structural damage in composites are frequently unreliable, especially for joints and attachments involving primary (load-bearing) structures. The rupture of the vertical stabilizer on Flight 587 occurred in the vicinity of repairs, adjacent to an attachment point. Therefore, the FAA must carefully establish and articulate a policy for the repair of primary composite structures.” [40]

“Finally,” Dr. Williams concludes, “Airbus’s extensive design and testing programs for the A300-600 composite vertical stabilizer may be currently deficient if they were based on outmoded or flawed engineering assumptions or an inadequate certification process. No amount of analysis can overcome faulty assumptions or insufficient requirements.” [41]

Even in the absence of an overloading or catastrophic event, Dr. Williams believes that, “When subjected to the loading histories of some aircraft, composites will lose both strength and stiffness. Furthermore, studies of the long-term effects of exposure to aircraft environments of moisture, pressure and temperature, as well as fuels, hydraulic fluids, lubricants and deicers remain to be conducted for many composite materials.” [42]

His research has shown that, “repeated journeys to and from the sub-zero temperatures found at cruising altitude causes a build-up of condensation inside composites, and separation of the carbon fibre layers as this moisture freezes and thaws.” Dr. Williams says it is “like a pothole in a roadway in winter, over time these gaps may grow.” [43]

January 2002 – Federal Express Flight. A pilot flying an Airbus A-300 freighter “complained about strange ‘uncommanded inputs’ – rudder movements which the plane was making without his moving his control pedals. In FedEx’s own test on the rudder on the ground, engineers claimed its ‘actuators’ – the hydraulic system which causes the rudder to move – tore a large hole around its hinges….” [44]

The mechanics “found that hydraulic fluid had caused some of the composite material in the plane’s rudder to ‘disbond,’ or come apart.” [45]

The mechanics also “found bent and broken rudder control system components, as well as associated disbonding of the composite tailfin.” The mechanics “unearthed a synchronization issue, wherein hydraulic pressure pulses from different sources can get out of phase.” The resulting “oscillation was felt as a sustained vibration, and then a loud bang was heard.” [46]

The rudder assembly “may represent a telltale of “yaw oscillation.” NTSB investigators immediately focused on the implications of the damaged/broken rudder control components found on the FedEx airplane and their possible relevance to the AA587 crash. “It appears that the system damaged the rudder. ‘That is not supposed to happen; the system should break out first,’ states an NTSB official.” [47]

March 2005 – Aboard Air Transat Flight 961 Over the Caribbean Sea. On March 6, 2005, an Airbus A310-300 with 262 passengers was cruising at 35,000 feet when the “flight crew heard a loud bang followed by vibrations that lasted a few seconds. The aircraft entered a repetitive rolling motion, known as a Dutch roll, which decreased as the aircraft descended to a lower altitude.” [48]

The crew was able to turn the plane around and return to Varadero, Cuba, where they carried out an uneventful landing. Upon arrival, it was discovered that the aircraft rudder had been torn off the plane, except for its “bottom closing rib and the length of spar between the rib and the hydraulic actuators.” [49]

“An examination of the vertical tail fin of the aircraft, to which the rudder is attached, determined that the two rearmost fin attachment lugs were delaminated, likely the result of stresses that existed during the rudder separation.” [50]

In its report about the occurrence, The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSB) observed, “At the time of this occurrence, composite materials in general were from a maintenance perspective, believed to have a no damage growth design philosophy. It was also believed that from a fatigue point of view, more frequent inspections of composite materials would not prove to be more effective.” [51]

The TSB report recommended:

“The separation of the rudder from Air Transat Flight 961 and the damage found during the post-occurrence fleet inspections suggest that the current inspection program for Airbus composite rudders may not be adequate to provide for the timely detection of defects. In addition, the recent discovery that disbonds could grow undetected and the increasing age of the composite rudders suggest that increased attention is warranted to mitigate the risk of additional rudder structural failures. The consequences of a rudder separation include reduced directional control and possible separation of the vertical tail plane.” [52]

TSB further recommended that “a detailed inspection of the drainage path of the rudder for blockage be added to the current inspection program to insure that there is adequate drainage.” [53]

On March 27, 2006, TSB reported that the required inspections “found examples of disbonds, damage around hoisting points and trailing edge fasteners of the rudder, corrosion and abrasion at hinges, seized hinges, hinges with excessive free play, water ingress, and hydraulic fluid ingress.” [54]

TSB commenced “work with the National Research of Canada to identify suitable inspection techniques that will detect failures in composite materials.” [55]

November 27, 2005 – Aboard Federal Express Flight. During routine maintenance, the rudder on an Airbus A300-600 was accidently damaged. To access the extent of damage, “the rudder was shipped to the manufacturer’s facility and examined. In addition to the damage that occurred during maintenance, the examination found a substantial area of disbonding between the inner skin of the composite rudder surface and the honeycomb core, which is located between two composite skins. [56]

Further examination “of the disbonded area revealed traces of hydraulic fluid. Hydraulic fluid contamination between the honeycomb skin and the fiberglass composite skin can lead to progressive disbonding, which compromises the strength of the rudder. Tests on the damaged rudder also revealed that disbonding damage could spread during the flight.” [57]

The NTSB determined that existing “tap tests” on the external surfaces of the rudder were unlikely to disclose “the disbonding of an internal surface.” The NTSB recommended a more stringent compliance time for inspections and requested that the FAA make the inspections mandatory. [58]

In December 2007, the European Aviation Safety Agency ordered frequent and extensive testing on the composite rudders of the Airbus A300/310 series due to safety concerns. Only about 20 wide-body A330 and A340 planes were included in the order, which did not include any of the A320 series. The tests had to be completed with six months, and certain airplanes had to be retested every 1,400 flights. [59]

The rudders of approximately 420 older Airbuses “are being subjected to repetitive ultrasonic and other enhanced inspections, the first time airlines and safety regulators have resorted to such recurring, high-tech procedures to determine the integrity of composite parts on airliners already in service” [60]

It is not known whether the inspection order applied to the A330 operated by Air France Flight 447 (see below), or if the aircraft was ever tested.

The order represents a vindication of the American Airlines pilots, who had called for such inspections five years earlier and for Dr. Williams, who had supported their efforts.

The order also represented a repudiation of Airbus’ maintenance standards that “simple visual inspections, combined with a mechanic’s manually tapping on the surface of the composite rudders, were adequate to detect any potentially hazardous internal flaws or structural weaknesses.” [61]

November 18, 2008 – Aboard XL Airways (Air New Zealand) Flight 888T Over Mediterranean Sea Off the French Coast. Two German XL Airways pilots, accompanied by five representatives of Air New Zealand and a member of the Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand, were operating an A320 in a test flight.

The aircraft had been leased by Air New Zealand to XL Airways and had been serviced and repainted in preparation for a return to Air New Zealand service.

The aircraft disintegrated when it crashed into the water and its tail fin was found floating at the crash site. The flight recorders were recovered, along with several of the bodies.

The cause of the crash is still under investigation by French, German, New Zealand and U.S. regulators; however, the interim findings are that the “crew lost control of the aircraft. While conducting an incompletely-planned test of low-speed flight at low altitude, the aircraft was descending through 3,000 feet on full autopilot for a go-around. Landing gear was just extended when … the speed dropped from 136 to 99 knots in 35 seconds.” [62]

“The stall warning sounded four times during violent maneuvering to regain control…. the warning had silenced as the aircraft regained speed in a rapid descent, but six seconds later, at 263 knots, the aircraft had only 340 feet elevation and was 14 degrees nose down. A second later it was in the water.” [63]

For now, it is not known if the floating plastic tail fin or its rudder may have been complicit in the crash.

Airbus has now delivered 3,893 A320s, which have now been involved in 10 fatal accidents, killing 565 people, and at least one famous nonfatal crash – that of US Airways Flight 1549 in the Hudson River on January 15, 2009.

May 31, 2009 – Aboard Air France Flight 447 Over the Atlantic Ocean 400 Miles Off the Coast of Brazil



Two of three pilots aboard an Airbus A330 were monitoring the autopilot controls on a flight carrying 216 passengers from Rio de Janeiro as it cruised at 550 mph at an altitude of 35,000 feet. It was just before midnight and the captain may have been asleep in preparation to landing the plane in Paris the next morning.

The pilot reported that the plane was flying through a towering thunderstorm containing black, electrically charged clouds confirmed by satellite data to be charging upwards to 41,000 feet at 100 mph.

Due to the frequency of equatorial storms in the area, it is likely that the flight crew and Air France management were aware of the impending storm before it was encountered, and a decision was made to fly through the storm, rather than to turn back or to navigate around it.

Ten minutes later, the autopilot switched off and a four-minute series of automatic failure and warning messages from the plane’s Aircraft Communication Addressing and Reporting System were relayed by satellite to Air France headquarters.

It is difficult to imagine the scene within the cockpit of the plane being thrown about by a raging hail storm in the middle of the night, but the automatic messages provide some clues.

With the autopilot disengaged, the pilots had to manually contend with an ever-escalating series of failures in the flight control systems. All of this had to be done with alarms sounding, in absolute darkness, with no natural horizon to observe and with aerodynamic forces erasing all sense of up or down. The pilots were entirely dependent upon the plane’s instruments and the sensors that provided electronic data.

Then, there was a cascading series of failures within the flight control computer and systems to monitor air speed, altitude and direction.

The pilots were flying blind.

The wing spoilers failed, the rudder limiter became inoperative and the rudder may have locked into place. At this point, it is likely that the plastic stabilizer was ripped from the plane. [64]

There is little or no likelihood that we will ever know whether the tail fin was blown off by the storm, as a result of the pilot’s attempt to control the plane, or by uncontrolled movements of the rudder.

What then happened, aerodynamically, is that without the vertical stabilizer and engine control, the airplane was like a giant Frisbee spinning through the storm until it fell apart.

The last automatic message confirmed a complete electrical failure and a loss of cabin pressure, as the plane plunged down almost seven miles in less than a minute to the ocean surface.

We can try to imagine the scene on the flight deck and in the passenger compartment; however, we cannot possibly feel the terror experienced by everyone aboard, including seven children and one baby.

During the long 14 minutes, as the pilots fought to control the aircraft, everything trusted by those who boarded the aircraft failed – catastrophically. In addition to their terror, they must have felt terribly betrayed.

To date, several large pieces of the aircraft fuselage, and the virtually intact vertical stabilizer, have been recovered from the ocean. All indications are that the plane broke up in midair. There is no evidence of fire.

50 bodies have been recovered, and almost all had multiple fractures, but no burns. Water was not found in the lungs of any victims. They were spread up to 53 miles apart, further confirming that the plane undoubtedly broke apart at high altitude.

A concentrated, multi-national effort, including nuclear submarines, is being made to locate the flight data and voice recorders from ocean depths of more than 15,000 feet and very rugged underwater terrain, before the attached “pingers” become silent after approximately 30 days.

There are early indications that speed sensors may have iced up in the storm and provided inconsistent speed readings, which may have initially caused the cascading failures of flight control systems aboard the plane. We may never know for sure exactly what initiated the collapse of systems unless the “black boxes” are found, which is increasingly unlikely with each passing day.

All we know for sure is that the plastic tail fin separated from the fuselage under conditions that should have been expected to occur at some time during the life of the airplane.

Would metal stabilizers, rudders and couplers have failed under the same or similar circumstances? They never have.

What Are the Lessons Learned and What Questions Do They Give Rise To?

At the cost of 500 lives and millions of dollars in lost aircraft, what can be learned from the crash of Air France Flight 447 and the series of emergency incidents and other similar airplane crashes that led up to it?

Is Composite Structural Design and Manufacturing Technology Sufficiently Mature To Be Used in Critical Structures on Passenger Aircraft? In cooperation with NASA’s Aircraft Energy Efficiency (ACEE) Program to improve the fuel economy of commercial aircraft, Boeing commenced an experimental carbon/epoxy flight service program in the early 1970s and included a limited number of experimental elevators on 727s and horizontal stabilizers and spoilers on 737s. [65]

“The experience gained from the ACEE programs provided the confidence needed by Boeing to select CFRP [carbon fiber reinforced polymer] for the Boeing 757, 767 and 737-300 control surfaces in the late 1970′s” [66]

Although some Boeing 737s have experienced rudder problems, including two fatal crashes; none involved aircraft with plastic stabilizers. Rather, the problem with unexpected rudder movements was traced to a faulty hydraulic servo valve, and the metal tail fins did not separate from the fuselage during flight. [67]

While Boeing was still experimenting with the use of composite materials in commercial aircraft, Airbus began to extensively install plastic materials in the construction of its first A300 series as early as 1974, introduced a composite tail fin box in its A310 series in 1978, and began delivery of the A320 series with an all composite tail fin in 1988. [68]

NASA’s efforts to explore the effective use of composites in aircraft design and manufacture in the U.S. was transparent, papers were presented, and information and experience was openly shared. European research and experience in the design and use of composites was more closely held, and it is less clear what kind of foundation work Airbus did in developing its use of composites. [69]

In 2001, NASA assessed the state-of-the-art in the design and manufacturing of large composite structures in a paper by Charles E. Harris and Mark J. Shuart, which concluded that:

“Composite structural design and manufacturing technology is not yet fully mature for all applications. There are 3 key factors that contribute to the lack of maturity of the design and manufacturing technology. These factors are the lack of a full understanding of damage mechanisms and structural failure modes, the inability to reliably predict the cost of developing composite structures, and the high costs of fabricating composite structure relative to convention aluminum structure. While the technology required to overcome these uncertainties is under development, these factors are barriers to expanding the application of composites to heavy loaded, primary structure.” (emphasis added) [70]

Mr. Shuart states that “all of us (at NASA) are proponents of the effective use of composites in aerospace,” and that the Boeing research and testing experience “makes us feel good.” He believes “in the right material for the right application,” and the main “question is how do you design and meet loads?” [71]

According to Mr. Shuart, there are places where it may be inappropriate to use composite materials instead of metal such as where there is a “banging around” or “excessive wear,” as in joints, hinges, or bearings. [72]

Mr. Shuart believes it may be useful and prudent to do a “hard scrub,” or thorough review, of the design loads used by Airbus in the design of critical structures in its aircraft. He is of the opinion that “failures are more likely a design, rather than a composite problem.” [73]

Regarding Airbus’ use of composites in rudders, couplers and vertical stabilizers, Mr. Shuart said, “What you’re asking is a good question.” [74]

In the Use of Composite Materials, Should Aircraft Designers Anticipate the Unexpected in Recognizing That Composite Materials Used in All Critical Structures Will Experience Extreme Stress At Some Point? As we have seen, a variety of causes have been found in the various emergency in-flight incidents and crashes involving the damage or loss of composite rudders and tail fins on Airbus aircraft.

In the case of American Airlines Flight 587, the primary cause was attributed to pilot error in the “unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs” that caused the rudder to move beyond “design limitations” and cause the plastic tail fin to be broken off the airplane. However, it must be expected that, at some time during the lifetime of an aircraft that a pilot may accidently push a little too hard on the rudder or that the rudder actuator mechanisms may fail.

If the expectation is that the composite tail fin may be torn off when that happens, then perhaps composites should not be used in that structure. Although aluminum vertical stabilizers may be heavier and accordingly provide less fuel economy, the fact is that there is no history of metal tail fins being torn from fuselages in commercial passenger aircraft in the past half century. This is true even though there has been a history of rudder problems, which necessarily caused the same stress on metal stabilizers as was caused to the composite tail of AA587.

While the crash of Air France Flight 447 is still under investigation, a variety of likely suspects, including lightning, severe thunderstorm, and clogged speed sensors are being advanced as possible causes. However, passenger airplanes have been flying through storms for the past 50 years and there is no history of metal vertical stabilizers being torn off.

In fact, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration makes a practice of flying through the most severe hurricanes to collect forecast data using ordinary Gulfsteam and Orion turboprop aircraft. There is no history of any of them being blown apart.

Critical structures on aircraft, particularly those intended to carry passengers, cannot be constructed of materials that fail to anticipate that they will be exposed to extreme stress at some point during their lifetime. It is true that, ultimately, all materials can be made to fail, why should passenger’s lives be included in the equation or the experiment to determine the breaking point?

Should the Use of Composite Materials Be Prohibited in Critical Structures in Commercial Passenger Aircraft? The use of composite materials in commercial aircraft is for one reason only – to save operating costs. The bottom line in this discussion is not how much money can be saved by composites. The true bottom line is the physical fact that composites fracture when they reach their limit, while metal usually bends before breaking.

Boeing and Airbus are the only two viable commercial manufacturing companies designing and delivering passenger aircraft, and they are competing in every market and with every product line. They are in a race to develop the least heavy aircraft to carry the greatest weight the greatest distance for the least amount of fuel possible.

If the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Safety Board should decide that, until such time as the composite structural design and manufacturing technology becomes sufficiently mature for all applications, composite materials could be prohibited for a common set of structures, including those most critical to flight operations.

That way, the playing field will be equal, and competition will still favor innovation in all other areas.

Should Commercial Passenger Aircraft Using Composite Materials in Critical Structures Be Regularly Inspected by Technology That Reaches Below the Surface to Identify Hidden Defects? The experience of the Federal Express rudder (see above) illustrates completely why ultrasound and other technologically advanced devices that can look below the surface are essential to the prevention of catastrophic crashes.

The rudder was taken out of service because of visible damage, and upon ultrasound inspection was found to have internal disbonding damage that could spread further during flight. Fortunately, we will never know if or when the rudder would have failed, or if its failure would have brought down the aircraft.

The current European Aviation Safety Agency ordered testing on Airbus composite rudders only applies to the A300/310 series, with only about 20 wide-body A330 and A340 planes included in the order.

The order does not include any of the almost 4,000 A320 series aircraft or the remaining A330, A340 or the new A380 aircraft. Nor does it include the composite vertical stabilizers, or any composite couplers used to connect these structures.

Consideration should also be given to including Boeing aircraft, such as the 777 that operates with a composite tail fin, in the inspection order.

Other than for the time and expense of conducting the test, it is far more likely that opposition from manufacturers and operators will be based on the fear that internal defects will be found and that replacement could cost up to a million dollars per plane. What value can be placed upon a baby’s life, or the life of any passenger?

Should All Aircraft Manufactured with Composite Materials in Critical Structures Be Grounded Until They Can Be Inspected For Hidden Defects? The most deadly crash in U.S. aviation history occurred on May 25, 1979 when an American Airlines DC10 crashed on takeoff from Chicago’s O’Hare Airport, as a wing pylon failed and an engine fell off. All 273 people aboard were killed.

The entire DC10 fleet was immediately grounded until it could be determined that the pylon bolts were at fault. [75]

Following the fatal crashes of several Comet airliners in the 1950s, with a total loss of less than 200 lives, the entire fleet was grounded by English Prime Minister, Winston Churchill. He said “The cost of solving the Comet mystery must be reckoned neither in money nor in manpower.”

The Airbus is not manufactured in the United States; however, they are being operated by a number of American carriers and U.S. citizens fly on them every day all over the world.

LOOK at the maintenance records and IF the safety inspections, and part replacements were performed.. ESSENTIAL LOGIC..

http://avia.pro/sites/default/files/vertical_tail_sm.jpg http://lessonslearned.faa.gov/Northwest705/Trim_System_sm.jpg

I would highly suspect POOR maintenance, and neglect to put the proper attention on the vertical stabilizer parts and rudder. Not terrorist activity, not bombs, but poor maintenance.

I would also pay attention to the quoted section below, that FATAL RUDDER ISSUE with the Airbus 320.

Aircraft Maintenance Note - example
http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/alerts/may2005.htm

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/FAA_Inaction/AK261failsafer-2_files/8e5c462d.jpg http://lessonslearned.faa.gov/Alaska261/Jackscrew_Motor_sm.jpg http://www.tailstrike.com/Photos/Alaska%20261%201.gif


(NewsCore) – The widely used Airbus A320 airliner has a flaw in its rudder system similar to a problem that helped trigger the second worst crash in U.S. history, federal accident investigators said Friday, according to USA Today.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said the A320′s rudder pedals are so sensitive at high speeds that pilots can unintentionally make the rudder panel on the tail swing violently back and forth.

This can create enough force to break a jet apart, the board wrote in a safety recommendation.

It concluded that a design flaw in the Airbus A300-600 rudder was part of the reason that an American Airlines pilot made several abrupt movements of the rudder shortly after takeoff from New York on Nov. 12, 2001, tearing the fin off the top of the jet’s tail.

The crash killed all 260 people aboard the jet and five people on the ground in Queens.

The NTSB said: “The Airbus A320 family is also susceptible to potentially hazardous rudder pedal inputs at higher airspeeds.”


http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f695b213df77f23b23e28e3e7ce6ac0ea089c264/c=21-0-929-683&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/05/19/USATODAY/USATODAY/635992494293421821-EGYPTAIR-1-.JPG

The board’s safety recommendation is the first indication that a similar problem could exist on other commercial aircraft models.

Canadian accident investigators discovered the issue while investigating an incident on January 10, 2008, aboard an Air Canada A319, a slightly smaller version of the A320.

(Link (http://www.bvatriallaw.com/2010/08/08/airbus-a320-has-flaw-in-rudder-system-same-flaw-that-triggered-the-second-worst-crash-in-u-s-history-2/))

Pilot error? The reported actions of the plane, the violent left right action, then the death spiral into the ocean...


A320′s rudder pedals are so sensitive at high speeds that pilots can unintentionally make the rudder panel on the tail swing violently back and forth.

Or maintenance error.. OR combination of both..

[Frankie Pancakes]

All very interesting. And so is this information. http://82.221.129.208/ifyouareinamericayouprobablycantseethisy6.html

This plane supposedly "went down in the Mediterranean." Not out in the middle of the Atlantic, not out in the Pacific, it went down in EVERYONE'S BACK YARD. There is no conceivable way the debris trail was not photographed clearly AT DAYBREAK. Israel, Turkey, Egypt, Russia, Italy, and many other countries could have had a fighter jet to the scene in less than an hour, and Egypt, Russia and Israel could have had one there in 10 minutes. Even helicopters could have been there in a half hour. No clear debris photos ALREADY means they are hoaxing this and Israel probably has the plane.

If this was real, THE STORY SHOULD BE ABOUT RESCUE HELICOPTERS SEARCHING, NOT SOME STUPID IDIOT CAPTAIN ON A BOAT!
UPDATE: No wreckage found as reported earlier (AND OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED LATER,) AND I CAN PROVE IT. Now it looks like another MH370
UPDATE: I did not need to prove it! What I have said all along is now fully confirmed: The "officially found wreckage" was not from the Egypt air flight, it was just random styrofoam! I am confident I have this nailed below, READ IT AND WEEP ISRAEL YOU ARE BUSTED, ARCHIVE AND POST!
My all but final conclusion: Plane electronically hijacked and landed in Israel. A 90 degree turn to the left, followed by a 360 degree turn equals a 90 degree turn to the left, which would be STRAIGHT TOWARDS ISRAEL. Adding to that no debris found despite the plane "going down in everyone's back yard" cinches it.

The latest reports simply have the pilots going silent, no fire ball, no debris, just a sudden change of course and drop in altitude with de-activated transponder and the same silent pilots we saw with MH370. CONCLUSION: The plane was diverted to Israel. It had no fuel to go elsewhere, and no one else could have done this. After showing a sudden turn towards Israel and sudden dive of the aircraft, the radar was blanked at around 20,000 feet, just like MH370. Unlike MH370, this plane was so close to the airport it would have been seen at less than 5,000 feet. If it disappeared from radar at 20,000 the way MH370 did . . . . . .JAMMER because the radar in the area was too close to the scene of disappearance for this to happen this time around, even if the plane fell in pieces it would have been tracked, in pieces to the water. 66 people aboard. HMMMMMMMMM . . . 66 people aboard. Down from an originally reported 69. Yep. The newly missing 3 people are probably who Israel was after. Time to find out if those 3 air marshals reported to be aboard were provided by Israeli security companies! THEY WOULD BE NEEDED TO THREATEN THE PASSENGERS AND CONFISCATE CELL PHONES AND MAKE THREATS TO PREVENT PASSENGERS FROM MAKING PHONE CALLS AFTER THE PLANE WAS FORCED DOWN IN EITHER TEL AVIV OR SOME HELL BASE IN THE ISRAELI DESERT. BINGO, I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE IT, DEBRIS TRAIL OR THAT IS THE STORY. WHY THREE AIR MARSHALS FOR 56 PASSENGERS? BINGO!!!!

Now we really need the background of the passengers aboard. If there is no debris trail (I have confirmed all the reports on debris trails are a hoax so far) and if none actually show up, the plane was forced to land in Israel, there is no other possibility. DEBRIS TRAIL OR ISRAEL, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION!

QUESTION: How do you revise the number of passengers and crew from 69 to 66 after the plane took off? Common core boarding log math tabulators???? How does that type of number, which is set in stone at the boarding booth get changed later? ISRAELI SHOOT DOWN, OR ISRAELI ELECTRONIC HIJACKING, that's how. The missing 3 people ARE WHO THEY WERE AFTER.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The BBC are reporting that Greek Air Traffic Controllers lost contact with the plane quite suddenly. Routine communications was ongoing when the aircraft first entered Greek airspace, and then suddenly nothing. They reported that: "despite repeated calls, the aircraft did not respond". It was a full two minutes later that the plane disappeared off radar.

In my knowledge of such events, a technical problem or a structural/surface failure would in any event warrant a "Pan-Pan" or worse still a "Mayday" call to the ground. It usually always does. As it did not in this case, it's an indication to me that whatever happened was sudden (probably instantaneous) and evidently catastrophic. The pilots had no chance to communicate, either because the 'event', whatever it was, destroyed their radio equipment and thus their means to communicate, or that the pilots were immediately incapacitated (dead basically). This does sound as if this is due to a catastrophic and very sudden failure of the aircraft, which of course does not rule out sabotage.

@Bob
I'm no expert, but somewhat of an aviation aficionado. I have heard about the screw-jack problem before, it is very rare, and unless I am mistaken it was an issue on a different aircraft, I think the good old 'flying coffin' itself the DC-10 (which I once had the un-pleasure of flying on). I cannot remember the incident, but it was long ago. Surely weaknesses and design flaws have long since been addressed? Also the sensitive rudder issue. 'Aggressive' application of the rudder can have a dangerous effect in extreme circumstances, historically in at least one case resulting in terminal failure of said rudder, resulting in a crash. But it's very very rare. But of note here, a "violent" destruction of the stabilizer - ie actually ripping the tail off mid flight - can have ancillary and devastating repercussions, namely: the severing of hydraulic lines, which link input control in the cockpit to the various control surfaces. With control of these surfaces gone, stabilizer/elevator/slats etc, the plane is essentially ****ed! This has been the cause of numerous accidents.

[Cardillac]

Jim Stone has his own take on this (he always has his own take);

I don't rule his assumptions out-

check it out:

www.jimstonefreelance.com

Larry

[Hervé]

Some other PPRuNe posts:

Originally Posted by Fly4Business
Another A320 down with the same pattern, no distress, no radio, no calling the next station. What if the construction does have a hidden flaw, will they confess or call it terrorism?
No axe to grind at all.
It averages 14 million hours per accident and there are more than 3000 in service so whatever is the cause the chance that there is a conspiracy to hide a significant design flaw is as close to zero as to be indistinguishable.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you say 'another A320 down with the same pattern', you're absolutely correct. No distress calls and a sudden end.

MetroJet - was blown up
GermanWings - was deliberately crashed
AirAsia - a complex incident but resulting in a LOCi.

Three very different accidents. None [of] which would suggest to me there's a hidden flaw.

[Hervé]

PPRuNe's Mo122 (http://www.pprune.org/members/451396-mo122)19th May 2016, 15:16 #130 (http://www.pprune.org/9381452-post130.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/579183-egyptair-804-disappears-radar-paris-cairo-7.html#post9381452))
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Egypt
Posts: 15
I can confirm this . A life jacket was found and a debris of a plane seat.

... that's in response to that Jim Stone rant of post # 16 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90773-EgyptAir-flight-804-disappears-en-route-from-Paris-to-Cairo&p=1069194&viewfull=1#post1069194) above.

[Bob]

There is more than screw Jack issues with the A320 - the delamination, the tail falling off, the pilot hitting the rudder too quickly, all leading to catastrophic failure - it could be any of those.

INSTEAD we hear the media (MSM) and the authorities clamoring for MORE security checks, screenings of the people who are near the aircraft, totally Under the Microscope.. It is known A320 is not a safe plane because of the delamination issue, and the 'accidental' pilot issue of hitting the rudder 'too fast' for the plane to hold together at speed.

I call this "false flag" to create more "detection techniques" to put people under the microscope, or blame "ISIS/ISL/IS". I am not a sympathiser, just saying the MSM is spewing TERRORISM is the cause.. I don't believe it.


The BBC are reporting that Greek Air Traffic Controllers lost contact with the plane quite suddenly. Routine communications was ongoing when the aircraft first entered Greek airspace, and then suddenly nothing. They reported that: "despite repeated calls, the aircraft did not respond". It was a full two minutes later that the plane disappeared off radar.

In my knowledge of such events, a technical problem or a structural/surface failure would in any event warrant a "Pan-Pan" or worse still a "Mayday" call to the ground. It usually always does. As it did not in this case, it's an indication to me that whatever happened was sudden (probably instantaneous) and evidently catastrophic. The pilots had no chance to communicate, either because the 'event', whatever it was, destroyed their radio equipment and thus their means to communicate, or that the pilots were immediately incapacitated (dead basically). This does sound as if this is due to a catastrophic and very sudden failure of the aircraft, which of course does not rule out sabotage.

@Bob
I'm no expert, but somewhat of an aviation aficionado. I have heard about the screw-jack problem before, it is very rare, and unless I am mistaken it was an issue on a different aircraft, I think the good old 'flying coffin' itself the DC-10 (which I once had the un-pleasure of flying on). I cannot remember the incident, but it was long ago. Surely weaknesses and design flaws have long since been addressed? Also the sensitive rudder issue. 'Aggressive' application of the rudder can have a dangerous effect in extreme circumstances, historically in at least one case resulting in terminal failure of said rudder, resulting in a crash. But it's very very rare. But of note here, a "violent" destruction of the stabilizer - ie actually ripping the tail off mid flight - can have ancillary and devastating repercussions, namely: the severing of hydraulic lines, which link input control in the cockpit to the various control surfaces. With control of these surfaces gone, stabilizer/elevator/slats etc, the plane is essentially ****ed! This has been the cause of numerous accidents.

[sigma6]

ah yes... I miss the good old days... you know... like when a plane crashed... there was actually a plane to be found that had crashed... how does a 100 tons of commercial jet fall out of the sky and appear to vanish?

...and the description of the maneuvers before the disappearance is interesting, someone will have to do a computer cgi to re-enact that little bit... and I wonder... was anybody supposed to see that?

added:
There seems to a pattern of correlations to these "mystery crashes" like no alerts from the pilots, radio blackouts, radar blackout, no debris, I agree about the "fake search" efforts... quite a lot of unusual things have to line up to create these "mysteries".... is someone playing with their remote control toys again?

Also will need to know other contexts, like who was on board... will it be more world class chip designers tied to Bush controlled industries with patents rights and living wills reverting back to the company in the event of their deaths?... (Lol...)

[stevcolx]

Now this makes a lot of sense. It would certainly explain the swerving before the contact was lost.

Actually it reminds me of the German Wings crash. To stop getting sued and losing a lot of money they blamed the crash on a loopy pilot.

Now with this crash what better way to protect your investment than to say it was a Terror attack.

[Michi]

Many intelligent and reasonable speculations here.

I have a (perhaps unpopular) suggestion here:
Why doesn't one or more of our RV-savvy members remote view the target?

Our history books are full of past lies because vested parties don't want to admit the truth.
And it goes on and on ...

The even better option would be, if any truth-seeker would learn himself RV because the key is to find out for oneself - not what someone else says.

Yes? - No?

[Agape]

It's claimed now the wreckage has been found , 290 km north of Alexandria

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36339614

:bad:

The 'missing time' :


Repeated calls go unanswered, then a radar blip disappears
Posted at
11:35
BBC transport correspondent Richard Westcott has pointed out a 50-minute gap between the aircraft's final communication with Greek air traffic control and its disappearance from radar.

Greek air traffic controllers say they had a normal communication with the pilot at 02:48 local time. Then 40 minutes later repeated calls went unanswered by the plane, and radar signal was lost 10 minutes after that.

Just saying ..because I sat here in the same hours at night , window open and my ears were 'ringing' , two nights . The day before this happened was so knocked out of everything i thought i'm slipping to 'eternal dream' , that sort of state .
That was so strange so I worked on waking myself up all that evening , waited for the same time .. could be around 1.30 AM ( GMT plus 1 ) , sat at the window ,
the 'signal' was much lower . I was almost sure it's over so i went to sleep ..
couldn't believe this .
Almost the same tune as when the MA370 was gone .

[WhiteLove]

EgyptAir tweeted out that the flight disappeared from radar at 2:45 am Cairo time, when the plane was at an altitude of 37,000 feet (11,300 meters) and around 10 miles (16 kilometers) inside Egyptian airspace.

So the loved ones had to get such news through a tweet. Where's the compassion these days...

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

This is beginning to smell a bit fishy. Information on the timeline of events is full of discrepencies. Taken from the BBC here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36339614)and here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-36328976), we have this statement first up:


They tried to contact him again at 02:27 Cairo time, as the plane was set to enter Egyptian airspace, but "despite repeated calls, the aircraft did not respond". Two minutes later it vanished from radar.

Then we have:


One troubling aspect, he said, is an apparent 12-minute gap between the crew no longer speaking to air traffic control and the aircraft dropping from the radar.

And finally:


Greek air traffic controllers say they had a normal communication with the pilot at 02:48 local time. Then 40 minutes later repeated calls went unanswered by the plane, and radar signal was lost 10 minutes after that.

The above being quite as Agape already pointed out. These timelines are completely screwy. So which is it?

[Bill Ryan]

.
A map, which is always useful:

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/834/cpsprodpb/84E8/production/_89742043_egyptair_flight_ms804_624map_v3.png


Wreckage has been found near where the plane disappeared, 180 miles north of Alexandria. The water there is relatively shallow (this isn't like the Pacific, miles deep), currents are limited and contained, the weather is good, and everything will certainly be found quite soon (including the black box).

[Hervé]

Egyptian navy finds EgyptAir wreckage (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/egyptian-navy-finds-egyptair-wreckage-160518073929160.html)

Egypt state television reports that navy sweep off coast of Alexandria for black box has found passenger belongings.




http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2016/5/19/924aefce6d384ca1bbea79fcdb9dd989_18.jpg
A sweep by Egypt's navy off the coast of Alexandria has recovered debris, a body part, and passenger belongings from the missing EgyptAir flight MS804.


Wreckage was found about 290km north of the Egyptian city on Friday, Egyptian state TV quoted the Egyptian military as saying.

The plane disappeared over the Mediterranean with 66 people on board early Thursday.

"Egyptian aircraft and navy vessels have found personal belongings of passengers and parts of the wreckage 290 kilometres [180 miles] north of Alexandria," a military spokesman said on his Facebook page.
[/URL]
A body part, seats, and one or more items of luggage were found by search crews, Greece's defence minister said.

"A few hours earlier we were informed [by Egyptian authorities] that a body part, two seats, and one or more items of luggage where found in the search area" off the coast of Alexandria, Panos Kammenos told a news conference.

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi expressed his condolences on Friday to the families of victims.

"The presidency with utmost sadness and regret mourns the victims on aboard the EgyptAir flight who were killed after the plane crashed in the Mediterranean on its way back to Cairo from Paris," Sisi's office said in a statement.

The search intensified on Friday, a day after Egypt's aviation minister said while it was too soon to say why the Airbus A320 flying from Paris to Cairo had vanished from radar screens, a "terrorist" attack would be a more likely scenario than a technical failure.

The tragedy raised fears of a repeat of the bombing (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/egyptair-flight-ms804-plane-disappeared-radar-160519031853365.html)of a Russian passenger jet by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as ISIS) group over Egypt last October that killed 224 people.

The plane disappeared between the Greek islands and the Egyptian coast without a distress signal from its crew.

Kammenos said the aircraft swerved sharply twice in Egyptian air space before plunging 6,700 metres.

Aviation analyst Tobias Rueckerl told Al Jazeera it was likely the searchers would find the black box quickly after locating the crash site, which could shed more light on what happened to the ill-fated aircraft.

"Basically we will have all the details up to the fatal event," Rueckerl said. "If anything happened in the cockpit, it is likely they will hear it on the voice recorder. We don't know the cause of the crash right now."

Both Egypt and Greece dispatched aircraft and naval vessels. They were expected to be joined by French teams, while the US sent a surveillance plane to help with the operation.

[...]

Full article: [URL]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/egyptian-navy-finds-egyptair-wreckage-160518073929160.html

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The water there is relatively shallow (this isn't like the Pacific, miles deep), currents are limited and contained, the weather is good, and everything will certainly be found quite soon (including the black box).

Although the BBC (Be Bloody Cautious) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-36328976) are reporting that this area of sea-bed could be up to 3km deep. That would make recovery of the black boxes expensive and difficult (if true).


Oceanographer Dr Simon Boxall tells the BBC that Flight MS804 went down in a very difficult part of the Mediterranean to search.

"I think the assumption is that this is a shallow water area but it's not, this part of the Mediterranean is really quite deep," he said.

"We only have limited information about the crash location, but if it is where this debris has been found then it sits on a boundary where the ocean floor is more like the Alps, very rugged and contoured.

"That area borders a large, deep plain about 3km down."

[Agape]

Not quite shallow, in the middle of Mediterranean ..



Wreckage may be on area of ocean floor 'more like Alps'

Oceanographer Dr Simon Boxall tells the BBC that Flight MS804 went down in a very difficult part of the Mediterranean to search.

"I think the assumption is that this is a shallow water area but it's not, this part of the Mediterranean is really quite deep," he said.

"We only have limited information about the crash location, but if it is where this debris has been found then it sits on a boundary where the ocean floor is more like the Alps, very rugged and contoured.

"That area borders a large, deep plain about 3km down."

Dr Boxall said an aircraft such as the A320 could easily "slip through the cracks" of the ocean floor in the area.

"This is a very soft sediment area and wreckage could sink very quickly, so they need to find it fast," he said.

The ocean floor ridges could also act to block signals from the black box pinger, and sonar from vessels searching for the wreckage, he said.

"Having thought this was a relatively simple one, it could actually be very difficult."



( the same BBC source page )

That's actually it and it's proved over last couple of years how well are they able to track anything ( even known to them ) on radar
and the fact that while there's Mars exploration and mapping going on and other 'space programs' there are no detailed map of Earths vast ocean bottoms in existence quite yet , bits and pieces , no 'total coverage' .

(But that's from distant observers view point of course, does not concern faithful adherents of conspiracy theory who believe that 'everything' is known, tracked , counted with and being done purposely )

[Hervé]

PPRuNe's Mo122 (http://www.pprune.org/members/451396-mo122)


20th May 2016, 09:21 #252 (http://www.pprune.org/9382393-post252.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/579183-egyptair-804-disappears-radar-paris-cairo-13.html#post9382393))


https://www.facebook.com/Egy.Army.Sp...33477036783280 (https://www.facebook.com/Egy.Army.Spox/posts/833477036783280)

Official statement , confirmed finding debris and parts belonging to the aircraft and passengers belongings by the Egyptian navy 290km north of Alexandria
Mo122 (http://www.pprune.org/members/451396-mo122)

20th May 2016, 10:42 #260 (http://www.pprune.org/9382465-post260.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/579183-egyptair-804-disappears-radar-paris-cairo-13.html#post9382465))

Exsimguy:

I can assure you it's very accurate and official , as an Egyptian I can tell you this is the official page and gateway to the armed forces information to the public. 100% official armed forces spokesman.

[Hervé]

Somewhere in there;


http://s32.postimg.org/lce7956th/image.png

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

An Oil Slick on the ocean surface reported 'near' the alleged crash sight:


The European Space Agency (ESA) says one of its satellites has detected what appears to be a 2km-long oil slick in the eastern Mediterranean Sea – in the same area that Flight MS804 disappeared.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci5e_UuW0AAaHmU.jpg

If this oil slick is a signature of the downed liner, then that is indicative to me of the aircraft being in tact when it impacted the water. I might be wrong, but a mid-air explosion (particularly at altitude) would dissipate debris (and fuel) over a wide area. A sizable reservoir of fuel freely standing on the surface of the ocean implies to me that the plane was relatively whole when it went down.

BBC are now reporting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-africa-36328976) a correction to their published timeline:


Gap in air traffic control log 2min, 40sec, not 12 min


Earlier the BBC, and others, reported on an apparent 12 minute gap in the air traffic control log between a failed attempt to contact the aircraft and it disappearing from radar.

But the Greek ATC timeline reported by news agencies appears to have been wrong.

A statement from the Greece's aviation authority (HCAA) says the gap between the first failed attempt to contact the aircraft and it dropping off radar was two minutes 40 seconds.

Originally I had thought the 12 minute gap had to rule out a bomb. A plane does not take 12 minutes to crash if a bomb goes off. Yet a 'large' oil slick counts against a bomb. The only alternatives then are catastrophic failure of aircraft (serious enough to take out communications as well the ability to control the plane) or another kind of sabotage: hijacking.

Hijacking doesn't much add up either. The fight was almost at its destination. Why wait that long into the flight to strike? Usually hijackers want to create as much panic and fear as possible to make their statement, so why ditch into the ocean, far from where any can see it or find it?

This is yet another weird and highly suspicious aircrash.

[Frankie Pancakes]

It is a riddle isn't it.

http://82.221.129.208/ifyouareinamericayouprobablycantseethisy7.html

May 20 2016

Egypt Air: Report of debris found including two seat cushions, a body part and luggage.
But no debris pictures. Not believable. Pictures or it did not happen. Airlines leave massive debris fields on the water, which are easily photographed. These have been photographed many times with every major crash that has been found. This crash was an easy one to find because it happened in a confined area a helicopter could get to easily. They are faking the search with boats. In a location like that, you don't use boats, you use helicopters. It is ALL FAKE. Pictures, or that plane landed in Israel. If a helicopter was not sent out in the first hours, it is ALL FAKE. Where are the reports of rescue helicopters being sent out, only 100 miles off shore where they could go easily?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE WERE NO RESCUE HELICOPTERS IN THE FIRST HOURS? They "knew" where this plane went down, WHY NO RESCUE HELICOPTERS SENT IMMEDIATELY? WHY NO? BECAUSE THE DAMN PLANE LANDED IN ISRAEL, THAT'S WHY.

This was the bust I held onto yesterday, to nail them when they sprung the next lie. They were talking idiotic searches on boats, when the plane went down in a known location, IN THE WATER, well within reach of helicopters where there was a high probability of survivors. Not sending helicopters is a dead giveaway there was no crash, because sending helicopters was the only thing that would have been done if a plane really did go down. Boats would be sent later, to pick up the big pieces. What do you do? Send a 25 mph boat and spend 5 hours getting there and then spend 10 hours plodding along at water level looking for pieces within eyeshot at water level? NO. You send a helicopter, that can get there in 25 minutes and scan the entire area in a few more minutes. How about sending a fighter jet for early searches, that can cover 100 miles in a few minutes to tell the helicopters right where it went down, so when they arrive 15 minutes later they go right to the crash? The story line, which only involved boats is CHILDISHLY STUPID, Giligan's island style, thank you COMMON CORE, you are easy to debunk!

DEBRIS REPORTS ARE FAKE BECAUSE OF STUPID BOAT STORIES, PLANE LANDED IN ISRAEL, PERIOD.

If the plane landed anywhere else, they would not have kept quiet about it.

The three people missing from the boarding log, that dropped the passenger count from 59 to 56, (for a total of 66 aboard) is what this is really all about. If it was possible to find out who was deleted from the boarding log, we would have the answer for why this plane was really taken.

[Hervé]

Recently, there has been a few "fair weather" or "clear turbulence" incidents which caused injuries, notably this one:

Extreme Turbulence Causes 31 Injuries on Etihad Airways Flight (http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-05-05/extreme-turbulence-causes-31-injuries-on-etihad-airways-flight)

Written by Caitlin Moscatello (http://www.cntraveler.com/contributors/caitlin-moscatello) May 05, 2016


http://media.cntraveler.com/photos/572b3c978b623bd0105885ee/master/w_1024,c_limit/etihad-airways-turbulence-getty.jpg
Getty


The airline said the turbulence was 'severe and unexpected.'

Turbulence (http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-06-08/nervous-fliers-guide-to-mid-air-bumps-and-glitches) can happen on any flight—but that doesn't make it any less nerve-racking (http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-02-20/9-ways-to-have-an-anxiety-free-flight), even for frequent flyers. And so one can only imagine the unease of passengers on a recent Etihad Airways flight from Abu Dhabi (http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-10-03/beyond-the-glitz-of-abu-dhabi) to Jakarta (http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2015-05-12/5-things-you-must-do-in-jakarta), where the air became so bumpy, 31 travelers sustained injuries and 10 people had to be hospitalized, including one crew member. Twenty-two others with minor injuries were treated at the airport's clinic, the airline said.

The extreme turbulence was captured in a video that will make any nervous flyer's palms sweat.

According to reports, the plane, an Airbus A330-200, hit the patch of bad air roughly 45 minutes (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3573246/Chilling-footage-captures-passengers-wailing-terror-desperately-reciting-prayers-plane-rocked-extreme-turbulence-left-31-people-injured.html) before landing at Soekarno Hatta International Airport. In the video, passengers can be seen yelling and praying during the scary incident.

Etihad, the United Arab Emirates' national airline, said that the turbulence was 'severe and unexpected.' In a released statement, the airline wrote that as a result of the incident, "flight EY475 from Jakarta to Abu Dhabi on May 4 has been cancelled." Additionally, Etihad says it sent a support team from Abu Dhabi to assist passengers in rebooking their flights or finding hotel accommodations.

As terrifying as the video may be, generally speaking, turbulence is a common and harmless occurrence. And most of the time, pilots know it's coming, so they can warn passengers to sit down and buckle up. Some causes of 'bumpy air' include upward and downward currents from thunderclouds, thermal currents, or rapid changes in wind speed or direction.

Clear turbulence, however, is more of a danger—that's when a plane hits a patch of bad air that can't be picked up by weather radar, and it happens when there are few clouds and good visibility. As Condé Nast Traveler‎'s Barbara Peterson reports, this is when most turbulence injuries occur (http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-02-19/united-airlines-mid-air-scare-prevent-turbulence-related-injuries).

[...]

[Rocky_Shorz]

Ihttp://ia.tmgrup.com.tr/520d07/0/0/0/0/2048/1135?u=http://i.tmgrup.com.tr/dailysabah/2016/05/20/1463741275181.jpgSalih Farhoud, an Egyptian community leader in France, disclosed 21 names of the Egyptians who were on board the plane, the Arabic language website of Al Arabiya News Channel reported.
Funeral plans

He said Khalid Abdulkhaliq Alam, Khaled al-Tantawi Namla, Haitham Sameer Daidah with his daughter and wife, adding that an absentee funeral prayer will be held for them tomorrow.

He also added that the other names include Marwa Hamdi, Nasr Hamad, Mansour Khalid Hussain, Riham Musaad Ali, Othman Rishar, Sawsan Khudair, Mahmoud al-Sayid, Mohammed Ziyadeh, Jalal Ziyadeh, Amal Zaineddin Dawood, Farraj Mohammed, Abdurabuh Islam Ahmed Hilal, al-Shadli al-Shadli, Ahmed Tayil, Amjad Arjento, Muna Hamdi Shabaneh and her son Ismaeel Raafat Shabaneh.

He also said the Saudi was a woman named Sahar Khoja.

Meanwhile, Saudi’s ambassador to Egypt Ahmed Kattan said Sahar Khoja was an employee for his embassy. He described her as one of the best employees.

Spokesperson for Iraq’s foreign ministry soon disclosed the names of the Iraqis as Najla al-Salihi and Hussain Khalid Mahmoud.

The ministry is in touch with Egypt’s civil aviation ministry over the fate of the two Iraqis, the spokesperson said, adding a representative from the Iraqi embassy in Cairo is in a special operation room to know their fate.

The Kuwaiti crash victim was revealed as an economics professor named Abdulmuhsin al-Mutairi, the local Al-Rai daily reported.

Al-Rai spoke with Mutairi’s cousin and learned that the Kuwaiti national was in France to accompany his sick wife, who was getting a treatment there. The cousin said Mutairi was visiting Egypt for one day before going back to Kuwait.

Ottawa said on Thursday that two Canadian citizens were on board the EgyptAir jet. Initially, it was reported that one Canadian was on board the plane.

Foreign Affairs Minister Stephane Dion said that Canadian officials were working with authorities to confirm whether there were any other Canadian citizens on board.

So far, Greek authorities have found two large plastic floating objects and two life jackets in an area of sea 370 kilometers south of the island of Crete.

There are no confirmed reasons behind the disappearance of the flight, but the Egyptian civil aviation minister said that “possibility of [the doomed EgyptAir flight] having a terror attack is higher than the possibility of having a technical [problem].”. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/features/2016/05/19/Names-and-photos-of-crew-passengers-of-missing-EgyptAir-surfacing.html

[Hervé]

Egyptian Navy finds human remains, passenger belongings & debris from plane crash (https://www.rt.com/news/343731-egyptair-debris-found-sea/)
(https://www.rt.com/news/343731-egyptair-debris-found-sea/)
Published time: 20 May, 2016 09:00
Edited time: 20 May, 2016 15:15
Get short URL (http://on.rt.com/7d83)

The Egyptian search mission has reportedly found a body part, seats and suitcases from EgyptAir Flight 804, hours after other debris was spotted 290km north of Alexandria. President Sisi and the airline have offered their condolences to families of the victims.

A body part, two seats and suitcases from the EgyptAir Airbus A320 have been found by Egyptian rescuers, Greece's defense minister, Panos Kammenos, said later on Friday. Greece has been notified about the discovery by the Egyptian authorities, he told journalists in Athens


"Regarding the outputs of the research, we have been briefed by the Egyptian JRCC (Joint Rescue Coordination Center) – and that was also announced to the media – about the discovery of a body part, two seats and luggage at the scene of the search, slightly to the south of where the plane's signal was lost. That is to the south and east of where the plane was lost, and further north of yesterday's sighting, that was not confirmed to be debris from the plane." He also stressed that Greek radars detected that the aircraft had taken a normal course through Greece’s airspace and did not deviate. The radars then spotted sharp turns in the aircraft’s trajectory as it plunged from a cruising altitude to 15,000ft, then disappearing from radars.

The Egyptian military said in a statement earlier that it detected parts of debris and some of the passengers’ belongings while searching for the aircraft's black box, according to Reuters.

The army's statement, posted on its official Facebook page, adds that the search operation is under way, involving naval vessels and military aircraft.

On Friday, President al-Sisi expressed his condolences to families of those on board, signifying that it is considered unlikely that any of the people on board survived.


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.05/original/573edff6c36188a5378b4577.jpg



"The presidency, with utmost sadness and regret, mourns the victims on aboard the EgyptAir flight who were killed after the plane crashed in the Mediterranean on its way back to Cairo from Paris," a statement from Sisi's office was quoted by Reuters as saying.

EgyptAir has confirmed on its Twitter account that debris and personal belongings were found 295km away from the coast of Alexandria.

The airline also tweeted condolences to the families of the victims.

[...]

Follow LIVE UPDATES on search for EgyptAir flight MS804 (https://www.rt.com/news/343512-egyptair-missing-flight-search/)


-----------------------------------------------------------------

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci1D4KGXEAAQ1Av.jpg

[Sean]

Here's VT's take on it:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/05/20/another-plane-down-here-we-go-again/

An excerpt:What if Sheldon Adelson, the Vegas gambling boss that bankrolls Israel’s Likudists, those we believe behind 9/11, the Hebdo killings, the illegal Bush presidency and so much more, came to the aid of Trump, who had convinced many he was willing to stand up to Israel?

What if Trump, being who he is, a blowhard out of his depth, got read in on how Israel could use one of its Barak 8 missiles, recently tested in the Eastern Mediterranean on on the INS Lahav, decided to do a repeat on the MH17 downing that some, those with good sources, believe Israel may have arranged as well, a “plane to plane” shootdown with a pair of Kiev fighters vectored into MH17 by an Israeli AWAC flying out of Azerbaijan?

Trump says more planes will fall. His new source of course is Adelson’s boys in Tel Aviv.

[stevcolx]

Here's another Theory and it is also very possible.

The Egypt Air plane flew through Greek Air Space before disappearing 3 minutes after it flew through Egyptian Air Space. In that area there was and still is a NATO Exercise ongoing. This exercise is an Air and Sea Naval International Military exercise involving many countries. Including Algeria, Egypt, Greece, Italy, Malta, Mauritania, Morocco, Spain, Tunisia, Turkey, Israel and the United States, representatives from the NATO Shipping Center, the International Organization for Migration (IOM) and the EU border management agency Frontex.




You might recall, in the vicinity of many of the most recent airline disasters, there were active military conflicts or drills taking place at the time the planes went down:

MH17 – conflict zone over Ukraine – Ukrainian jets photographed near MH17 just before it went down.
MH370 – unidentified radar blip seen in area of downing and tracked heading back to base – witnesses say it was “trailed by fighter jets” – witness (Mike McKay) saw MH370 “burning in the sky over South China Sea” (he is later fired from his oil rig job) – two US cruise missile destroyers were in the area of the South China Sea, conducting drills, when Flight 370 disappeared. – “The USS Kidd, an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer, joined the USS Pinckney in the search effort, according to the U.S. 7th Fleet. Both destroyers were conducting training in the South China Sea when they were dispatched to aid the search.
”MetroJet Flight 9268 – they get their fake “truther” assets to blame downing of plane on “ISIS” – US and Israel Conducting Air Force War Games in Arava Desert When Flight 9268 Went Down. In the case of Metrojet Flight 9268, they put together a little band of whitebread jihadists who pretended to take credit for the downing of the plane.

So here we have another theory based on some facts.

[Hervé]

Recovered debris:


QRZlfCIb8qE

[Hervé]

Egypt officials claim to [have] locate[d] EgyptAir black boxes (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/egyptair-flight-804-black-boxes-crashed-airplane-located-mediterranean-sea/)

CBS/AP May 21, 2016, 6:16 AM
Last Updated May 21, 2016 8:34 AM EDT

Search crews located the data recorders [FDR] for EgyptAir Flight 804 (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/egyptair-flight-804-investigation-terrorism-potential-cause-michael-morell-john-miller/) close to an area where human remains and debris (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/egyptair-flight-804-egyptian-military-debris-passenger-belongings-search-mediterranean/) from the crashed flight have been found, Egyptian government sources confirmed to CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/live/) News on Saturday.

Also Saturday, the French air accident investigation agency said smoke was detected in multiple places on the flight (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/egyptair-flight-804-smoke-detected-from-flight-before-crash/) moments before it plummeted into the Mediterranean, but the cause of the crash that killed all 66 on board remains unclear.

On Friday, sources told CBS News that information was transmitted from the flight indicating that smoke was detected on the plane before it crashed.

According to the sources, the information indicates smoke was coming from one of the engines. The data was transmitted through the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, which sends snapshots of engine performance throughout the flight.


http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/05/21/69b288a2-0329-441f-9ed9-507084857f16/thumbnail/620x350/796a623becbf5e073562a43231d1b52a/egyptair-search-2016-05-20t230818z.jpg (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/egyptair-flight-ms804-crash/)
Egyptian Military/Handout via Reuters TV: An Egyptian pilot points during a search operation by Egyptian air and navy forces for the EgyptAir plane that disappeared in the Mediterranean Sea in this still image taken from video May 20, 2016.


Sebastien Barthe, a spokesman for the French agency, told The Associated Press in Paris that the plane's automatic detection system sent messages indicating smoke a few minutes before the plane disappeared from radar while flying over the east Mediterranean early on Thursday morning.

The messages, he explained, "generally mean the start of a fire," but he added: "We are drawing no conclusions from this. Everything else is pure conjecture."

Looking for clues to whether terrorists may have brought down the Airbus A320, investigators have been poring over the passenger list and questioned ground crew members at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris, from which the plane took off.

The aircraft had been cruising normally in clear skies on a nighttime flight to Cairo early Thursday when it suddenly lurched left, then right, spun all the way around and plummeted 38,000 feet into the sea, never issuing a distress signal.

Search crews are scouring for further wreckage of the aircraft. Experts said answers will come only with an examination of the wreckage and the plane's cockpit voice and flight data recorders, commonly known as black boxes.

Planes and vessels from Egypt and five other countries - Greece, Britain, France, the United States and Cyprus - continued searching a wide area of the eastern Mediterranean on Saturday, a day after the Egyptian military found debris from the passenger jet in the sea 180 miles north of the Egyptian port city of Alexandria.

The waters in the area are 8,000 to 10,000 feet deep, and the pings from the black boxes can be detected up to a depth of 20,000 feet.

On Saturday, the Egyptian military released photographs of the debris. The photos (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/) were posted on the Facebook page of the chief military spokesman. They appear to show the heavily damaged remains of plane seats, life jackets - one of which was seemingly undamaged - and a scrap of cloth that looks to be part of a baby's purple and pink blanket or sleeping bag.


http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/05/21/1c4da2ec-41d1-4675-bb35-08407b750011/thumbnail/620x350/6512f8071632d0fe636932a758a18f2d/egyptair-debris5.jpg (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/egyptair-flight-ms804-crash/)
Egyptian army: Debris recovered from the search for EgyptAir Flight 804 is seen in this photo posted to an Egyptian army Facebook page May 21, 2016.


The spokesman's Facebook page later posted a brief video that showed more debris, including what appeared to be a piece of blue carpet, seat belts, a shoe and what looked like a woman's white handbag. The short clip opened with aerial footage of an unidentified navy ship followed by a speed boat with five service members aboard heading toward floating debris.

[...]

Full article: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/egyptair-flight-804-black-boxes-crashed-airplane-located-mediterranean-sea/

[Bob]

Is it known yet, where and which vessel located the "black boxes" ?

The CBS news article says -


Search crews located the data recorders for EgyptAir Flight 804 close to an area where human remains and debris from the crashed flight have been found, an Egyptian government source told CBS News on Saturday.

Internet media is starting to pick up the "quote", question: have any more accurate details been noted?

Analysis of debris damage can describe a bit of what happened, such as high speed crash, or equipment failure and probable loss of control of the aircraft. Or if explosive detonation happened (at altitude, i.e. "bomb" scenario).

I ask about details as it may give an indication of what we can "expect" with how people will be treated with "flying", or traveling on the tubes, or for that matter roadblocks and checkpoints - "Papers Please?" It may give an indication of what press program will be presented to justify escalation to attack "the enemy"; the "radical terrorists" is the label used.

I would expect to hear political platforms be tailored to match what scenario will gain the most traction for the "program".

[Jay Freeman]

Jim Stone has his own take on this (he always has his own take);

I don't rule his assumptions out-

check it out:

www.jimstonefreelance.com

Larry

A brief summary of what he said would be most helpful. Then we could go to the link for the details if interested.

Thanks!

[Bill Ryan]

Jim Stone has his own take on this (he always has his own take);

I don't rule his assumptions out-

check it out:

www.jimstonefreelance.com (http://www.jimstonefreelance.com)

Larry

A brief summary of what he said would be most helpful. Then we could go to the link for the details if interested.

Thanks!

Yes. For the record (and I'm merely reporting this, not endorsing it), this is what Jim Stone wrote — today: (this is an update on Cardillac/Larry's post two days prior)

What Stone is basically saying (and all the emphasis below is his) is that there was no cabin depressurization, yet the pilots sent no radio call in the 3 mins that they would have had available to do so.




May 21 2016

THEY SCREWED UP!

In an effort to back away from the terror angle on the Egypt air flight, at the same time they try to pacify the public with the missing black boxes, they hatched a "satellite telemetry" story that killed them. HERE GOES!

If the satellite telemetry report just by odd chance happens to be real, ISRAEL IS SCREWED ANYWAY because it proves this plane was at least rendered unable to call out via external influence all the while all systems were working that would have been needed to call out, and no matter what happened to the plane after that, Israel is indicted because Israel is the only country in the area that could make a plane go "silent" and make a now proven powered and on transponder vanish.

Here is the telemetry:
00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT
no further ACARS messages were received
Ok, so look at the time frame here - it spans 3 minutes. And NOWHERE in that 3 minutes is there the code CABIN DE-PRESSURIZATION. So that alone totally rules out any bomb or missile strike. It also rules out any possibility of the plane breaking up.

But there is a LOT IT DOES SAY. It says that no matter what, the pilots had 3 minutes to radio out about any trouble. Trouble that did not destroy the airplane.

If it did destroy the airplane, the cabin pressure code would have been sent. Also stuff like "oxygen mask deployment" would have been sent.

And if the radio or transponder had a power outage, a message for that would have been sent. Here is the kicker (referred to next) - towards the end, the last two messages are for flight control computer failures. Now why would that be?

The zio press is hatching all kinds of stories about what these codes mean, when really everything they come up with sounds like a talking banana shoved up a monkey's behind. And I'll tell you why - because within the "official" story, they cannot state anything about these codes that makes any sense. Whoever hatched the "satellite telemetry" story wanted to set a scenario of a plane breaking up, and sending out random trash.

But they screwed up, because NO CABIN PRESSURE CODE IS IN THERE.

Absent that, the plane was totally intact, and the fact these codes were sent at all means the plane was at least in good enough condition to squawk about a loss of cabin pressure if it had happened.

Let me tell you two scenarios the MSM will never state that actually make sense -

1. When the plane was electronically hijacked, the hijacking procedure generated errors. I'd give this scenario a possibility of 3 out of 10.

Here is what I really think happened:

2. The pilots suddenly had the plane act up and start making turns, realized they could not call the tower, figured out they were remote hijacked, AND STARTED RIPPING WIRES OUT OF SOME OF THE AVIONICS IN THE RAW HOPE THEY'D RIP THE RIGHT ONES TO GET CONTROL BACK.

The smoke alarm and window sensor errors were simply generated by random wires getting ripped. Finally they started bashing avionics CPU's to death, which generated the last two errors. Then telemetry cut due to jamming from the hijackers. Plane landed in Israel, PERIOD.

The ziopress had to hatch a satellite telemetry story, to pacify the public as to why no black boxes will be found and why no credible debris path was found. And I have a perfect explanation for the "debris" that was supposedly found so far . . . . . read on . . . .

CNN is all over the map with the lies. Now CNN is saying the plane was 180 miles out, to explain the slow emergency response. 180 miles is still within range of the most pathetic rescue helicopter. But the plane was NOT 180 miles out. This is because ALL the early reports said the plane vanished 10 minutes before it was supposed to land. An Airbus A320 cruises below 600 mph. That means, with 10 minutes left to land, it could not have been more than 100 miles away from the landing strip, which was definitely not on the ocean. An Airbus A320 has 7 flight control computers. 2 being deactivated (as showing in the codes) does not equal a crash. So they can't say the received telemetry errors resulted in a loss of flight control. None of this adds up to a transponder being switched off and no radio contact from the pilots. All of it adds up to:

The plane was in 1 piece with totally functioning electronics which were feeding the telemetry system with codes that prove the plane was 100 percent powered. Yet the pilots did not radio out, despite telemetry stating they had the power to do so, and the transponder was lost, despite it having power.

If either the radio or transponder lost power, it would have registered in the telemetry. There is no entry for any power outages. WHY DID BOTH GO SILENT? HELLO FLIGHT 370 Deja Vu! An electronic hijacking is the ONLY possibility now.

HA HA HA, and the best part is - if the telemetry report just by odd chance happens to be real, ISRAEL IS SCREWED because it proves this plane was at least rendered unable to call out via external influence all the while all systems were working that would have been needed to do it, and no matter what happened to the plane after that, Israel is indicted because Israel is the only country in the area that could make a plane go "silent" and make a now proven powered and on transponder vanish.

But you can bet Israel won't fry, in fact you can bank on that, because Jews will own the investigation, they own the media as well, and the answer will simply be what they want it to be, even if it means dead bodies and suitcases have to be planted in the water for rescuers to find.

HERE IS THE PUNCH LINE:

There certainly will not be a single plane piece found that is identifiable as from this plane with certainty, and not just a removable piece that can be taken out and planted for rescuers to find, or a non descript piece that could have been from a different crash and used as a front. There will be no black boxes recovered. NOTHING like that will be found. The fact that there were no search planes or helicopters sent out screws them to death on this one, and alone proves there was no crash and everyone knew it. The entire search consisted of whatever merchant ships happened to be passing through the area on their way to the Suez canal. Nothing else was ever mentioned, and if such stories do come out (now that I have mentioned that particular screw up,) too late, they are already screwed. They are going with the story that the plane broke up.

TELEMETRY SAYS IT DID NOT, AS PROVEN BY NO REPORTS OF OXYGEN MASK DEPLOYMENT, CABIN PRESSURE LOSS, OR POWER OUTAGES ALL THE WAY TO THE END! They totally cornered themselves now, lied themselves into a situation they can't get back, so what will they say next? Certainly not the truth!

[Hervé]

The ACARS [Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System] that were transmitted:


http://takata1940.free.fr/MS804.jpg

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/178FA/production/_89760569_egyptair_ms804_smoke_locations_v2.png


The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/h?article=4987fb09&opt=0) said that smoke detectors had gone off in the toilet and the aircraft's electronics before the signal was lost.

It said it had received flight data filed through the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) from three independent channels.

It said the system showed that at 02:26 local time on Thursday (00:26 GMT) smoke was detected in the jet's toilet.

A minute later - at 00:27 GMT - there was an avionics alert indicating smoke in the bay below the cockpit that contains aircraft electronics and computers.

The last ACARS message was at 00:29 GMT, the air industry website said, and the contact with the plane was lost four minutes later at 02:33 local time.

ACARS is used to routinely download flight data to the airline operating the aircraft.

Agency spokesman Sebastien Barthe said the messages "generally mean the start of a fire" but added: "We are drawing no conclusions from this. Everything else is pure conjecture."

Philip Baum, the editor of Aviation Security International Magazine, told the BBC that technical failure could not be ruled out.

"There was smoke reported in the aircraft lavatory, then smoke in the avionics bay, and over a period of three minutes the aircraft's systems shut down, so you know, that's starting to indicate that it probably wasn't a hijack, it probably wasn't a struggle in the cockpit, it's more likely a fire on board."



EgyptAir: Submarine searches for missing flight data recorders (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36353489)

3 hours ago From the section Middle East (http://www.bbc.com/news/world/middle_east)

Egypt has deployed a submarine to search for the flight data recorders of the missing EgyptAir plane.

"We are moving hard to retrieve the two boxes," President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi said in his first public comments on the crash.

[...]

Full article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36353489


Note: Since the time's seconds are not recorded. 00:26 to 00:27 could be anything between 1 second (00:26:59 --> 00:27:00) and a full two minutes (00:26:00 --> 00:27:59)

[justntime2learn]

Any thoughts on this ?

Greek F-16s Intercept Delta Airlines Flight Over Greece

http://thewinglet.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Delta-Airlines-Front-398x264.jpeg

" Greek F-16s Intercept Delta Airlines Flight Over Greece

There are some local Greek media reports that two F-16s intercepted a Delta Airlines flight around the same area that EgyptAir Flight 804 disappeared a few days ago.

According to the Greek media reports, the flight strayed into Greek airspace and it did not properly identify itself. The F-16s swooped in and intercepted the flight as a security precaution.

I can only roughly translate the media reports, given that I don’t know Greek and I have not seen a report in English media on this, but according to the Greek media, the Delta Airlines flight was en route from France to Kuwait when it strayed into Greek airspace over the Mediterranean. The Civil Aviation Authority in Greece made calls to the aircraft for one hour in an attempt to reach out to it, but there was no response. Two F-16s were sent to make contact with the aircraft and the plane was unresponsive for some time, with the pilot and co-pilot not acknowledging the jets’ calls for the aircraft to identify itself.

Greek media reports say that over Santorini the F-16s made contact and no longer continued to escort the plane.

This happened shortly after an EgyptAir flight went missing the same day. Authorities may have scrambled the jet over a fear that the Delta Airlines flight was around the same air space where the EgyptAir flight veered off course and disappeared off the radar.

We reached out to Delta for a comment but at the time of publishing had not heard anything back. The story is largely under reported, most likely because it ended without any incident, but it would be interesting to see why there was a delay for the co-pilot and pilot to respond from calls from the Greek Civil Aviation Authority.

NOTE: The story originally said the plane was flying from France to Kuwait. English media is now reporting it was a charter Delta flight between Germany and Kuwait.

Link: http://thewinglet.boardingarea.com/greek-f-16s-intercept-delta-airlines-flight-greece/

[stevcolx]

That sounds suspicious. Why wouldn't the Delta pilots answer? Why wasn't there communication from the Egypt Air Pilots. Could the NATO exercise Phoenix Express be using some kind of Aircraft Jamming device?

We know they have all sorts of new technology for electronic Weapon systems. Microwave, Sound, Satellite based Energy Weapons etc.

Wasn't there a report recently of Low Level Satellites bugging people somewhere?

I'm just speculating of course but Pilots not communicating when Military tell them to does seem rather suspicious!

[KiwiElf]

New Twist to the story - and reported in the MSM! Just received this link from a friend in Oz:

EgyptAir MS804 - Pilots ‘saw UFO with green flashing lights’ shortly before tragic plane crash
May 24, 201610:13am

http://www.news.com.au/world/egyptair-ms804-pilots-saw-ufo-with-green-flashing-lights-shortly-before-tragic-plane-crash/news-story/2e55b4315a87f8ca921fe16c974688bc

TWO Turkish Airlines pilots claim a UFO with green lights passed over their plane shortly before the downing of EgyptAir flight nearby.

According to The Sun, the unidentified object was reportedly seen by the pilots who were flying from Bodrum to Istanbul last Thursday night.

The pilots claim they saw it close to Istanbul’s Silivri district when the plane was at 17,000-ft at 11.30pm.

Just one hour later, the EgyptAir plane came down in the Mediterranean between Turkey and Egypt.

As reported by hurriyetdailynews.com, the Turkish Airlines pilots told Air Traffic Control at Istanbul: “An unidentified object with green lights passed 2 to 3,000 feet above us.

“Then it disappeared all of a sudden. We are guessing that it was a UFO.”

Mystery surrounding the crash of EgyptAir MS804 has deepened following claims its pilot DID make a distress call – about an emergency descent aimed at putting out a fire.

It was initially reported that Mohamed Said Shoukair, 37, lost all radio contact before the Airbus A320 plunged into the Mediterranean on Thursday en route from Paris to Cairo, with the loss of 66 lives.

But according to aviation sources in France, the Egyptian pilot contacted air-traffic control about smoke which he said was filling the plane and told them he was going to make an emergency descent.

There was “conversation several minutes long” between Captain Shoukair and the controllers, which amounted to a distress call, according to the source.

French TV channel M6 reported that the pilot then initiated a “rapid descent” aimed at putting out the fire on board and clearing the smoke.

The manoeuvre involves dramatic changes in cabin air pressure and can be extremely dangerous – but the latest claims about the flight’s last moments do fit in with earlier information.

According to Greece’s Defence Minister Pano Kammenos, the plane dropped sharply from 37,000ft to 15,000ft and then made “sudden swerves”. As it entered Egyptian airspace, over the Greek island of Karpathos, it first made a sharp, 90-degree turn to the east, and then carried out a full circular loop.

A leaked data report also suggests that a fire blazed across the flight-deck minutes before the disaster – suggesting a ­catastrophic electronics malfunction.

Just after the flight disappeared, the airline said there had been a distress call. This was later denied by the Egyptian military and withdrawn by EgyptAir.

The new information made a terror attack seem “less likely” – although it has still not been ruled out.

On Friday, authorities released an audio recording of Captain Shoukair’s words to Swiss air-traffic control, from around an hour into the planned four-hour flight.

The communication occurred around midnight local Swiss time, about two-and-a-half hours before Greek air-traffic controllers in Athens lost contact.

The pilot was in good spirits and thanked the controller in Greek, according to the Greek civil aviation authority. But transmissions from the aircraft in the minutes before it was lost reveal that smoke was detected underneath the cockpit and in a toilet. These messages were sent to ground computers before the airliner plunged from the sky.

The hunt is now on for the plane’s black boxes – the flight data and cockpit voice recorders that could unlock the mystery. French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault insisted “all theories are being examined and none is favoured”.

But Simon Hradecky, editor of the respected website Aviation Herald, said available data suggested an electrical fault on the aircraft was now more likely than a terrorist attack.

Details of Flight MS804’s final moments emerged as human remains and personal belongings from some of the victims were recovered by search vessels.

Debris was found 180 miles north of the port of Alexandria by the Egyptian navy. The spot is south of where the Airbus vanished from radar signals.

Services were held for the 66 dead passengers and crew this weekend, as the name of the youngest victim emerged.

Joumana Bettiche, just four months old, and brother Mohammed, three, perished alongside parents Faycal Bettiche and his wife Nouha Saoudi, all of Angers, France.

[Hervé]

EgyptAir crash: Forensics chief dismisses reports of human remains pointing to onboard explosion (https://www.rt.com/news/344171-egyptair-remains-point-explosion/)
(https://www.rt.com/news/344171-egyptair-remains-point-explosion/)
Published time: 24 May, 2016 09:15
Edited time: 24 May, 2016 12:06
Get short URL (http://on.rt.com/7dkb)



http://s32.postimg.org/vt3csiflv/image.jpg
Recovered debris of the EgyptAir jet that crashed in the Mediterranean Sea is seen with the Arabic caption "part of plane wreckage" in this handout image released May 21, 2016 by Egypt's military. © Reuters



Egypt's head of forensics has denied reports that human remains retrieved from the Mediterranean Sea and examined by a team of experts point to an explosion taking place on board Flight 804, which crashed last week.

"Everything published about this matter is completely false, and [are] mere assumptions that did not come from the Forensics Authority," state news agency MENA quoted forensics head Hesham Abdelhamid as saying.

Earlier on Tuesday, an official who was said to have personally examined the remains at a Cairo morgue told AP on condition of anonymity that "the logical explanation is that it was an explosion."

The source went on to state that the experts had been given around 80 small body parts to investigate.

“There isn't even a whole body part, like an arm or a head,” the official said.

"The size of the remains points towards an explosion, the biggest part was the size of a palm. Some of the remains started arriving on Sunday in about 23 bags," a forensics official told Reuters.

The official said that no traces of explosives have been found yet that would suggest that a bomb caused the plane to crash. The team is expecting more body parts to arrive soon so that they continue with their forensic examination in trying to find out what caused the crash.

Family members of the disaster victims turned up at the Cairo morgue to give DNA samples to help the forensics department identify the remains of those who passed away, AP reported.

[...]

Full article: https://www.rt.com/news/344171-egyptair-remains-point-explosion/

[Hervé]

Similarities... this , luckily happened while on ground:


http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh212/727Kiwi/General%20Aviation/Egyptairflight667_zps99936539.jpg
The sequence of events on ACARS looks highly similar to the MS677 incident (http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7) ... from the window heat sensors, it even started in a similar place.



Edit: In reply to Bob's post below: EgyptAir 777 fire probe inconclusive but short-circuit suspected (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/egyptair-777-fire-probe-inconclusive-but-short-circuit-379655/)

[Bob]

On the post above Hervé, was that an electrical/electronics incident? Details/link to the report for that jet?

==Update==

Thanks ! for the links

[Hervé]

Investigation Progress Report (4) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee (http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_28_5_16.html)

The investigation committee received satellite reports of the electronic emergency signal that came out of the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT); which is equipment that sends automatic signals to satellite in the event of a crash or fall into water. Concerned search units were then informed of the updates recorded by the satellite to intensify searching in that area.

Efforts to search for the data recorders of the A320 continues; including the use of the most advanced search equipment of Alseamar company that was brought aboard the French vessel. The Ministry of Civil aviation has also made agreement with DOS (DEEP OCEAN SEARCH) company for other equipment with high capacity to receive signals and conduct sonar scan, in order to diversify research methods and to carry them out in the shortest time possible.

On the other hand, the investigation committee has started studying the information received from the Greek air traffic control about the accident; more information of the records of the radar that had followed the path of the plane before the accident, is expected to be also received.

[Hervé]

French vessel detected signals presumed to come from EgyptAir MS804 black boxes – investigators (https://www.rt.com/news/345032-egyptair-black-boxes-signal/)

Published time: 1 Jun, 2016 10:52
Edited time: 1 Jun, 2016 13:12
Get short URL (http://on.rt.com/7e88)


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.06/original/574ebf8ac4618809148b4576.jpg
© Alexandre Groyer / Marine Nationale / AFP



A French ship has detected signals deep under the Mediterranean Sea, believed to be from the black boxes of EgyptAir Flight MS804. The plane crashed last month, killing all 66 passengers and crew on board.

Citing a statement from Egypt's investigation committee, the Civil Aviation Ministry said the signals were received from the French vessel 'Laplace.'

France's Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) also confirmed that a signal has been detected from one of the black boxes. The BEA is the French body responsible for the investigation of civil aviation accidents.

The investigation committee said in a statement that the search for the black boxes is intensifying ahead of the expected arrival of a separate vessel from the Mauritius-based Deep Ocean Search, which will aim to retrieve the devices. That ship is expected to arrive within a week.

Locator pings emitted by flight data and cockpit voice recorders, known as black boxes, can be detected from deep underwater.

The Airbus A320 crashed on May 19, around 170 kilometers (105 miles) from the Egyptian coast in the Mediterranean sea. The plane had taken off from Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris.

The plane was carrying 66 people, which comprised of 56 passengers and 10 crew members. Of the passengers, 30 were Egyptian, 15 French and two Iraqi, with one from each of Algeria, Belgium, Britain, Canada, Chad, Kuwait, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan.

The search for the aircraft has been narrowed to a five kilometer (three mile) area in the Mediterranean.


============================================




Doté de nombreux moyens d’hydrographie, le Laplace a embarqué des outils spécialisés, dont le système Detector de la société française Alseamar. « Grâce à 20 ans d’expérience dans le domaine de l’acoustique sous-marine, Alseamar a conçu et fabriqué ce système unique au monde. Immergé à environ 1000 mètres sous l’eau, le Detector écoute et discrimine à plus de 4 kilomètres le signal émis par les balises fixées aux enregistreurs de vol parmi les bruits ambiants de la mer », explique cette filiale du groupe Alcen, qui dispose à bord du Laplace d’une équipe constituée d’un ingénieur et de deux techniciens. En tout, trois Detector 6000 seront déployés par le bâtiment hydrographique de la Marine nationale pour définir une position la plus précise possible des enregistreurs.
http://www.meretmarine.com/sites/default/files/styles/mem_846_article_content/public/new_objets_drupal/20141021143032_Detector-1000%20Totem.jpg

Alseamar system on H/V Laplace

With many hydrographic means, Laplace embarked specialized tools, the Detector system of French society Alseamar. "With 20 years of experience in the field of underwater acoustics, Alseamar designed and manufactured this unique system. Immersed about 1000 meters under water, "Detector" can listen and discriminate, from the ambient sounds of the sea, the signal emitted by the beacons attached to the flight recorders [within a radius of] more than 4 km," says the subsidiary Alcen group which has a team consisting of an engineer and two technicians on board of the 'Laplace." In all, three Detector 6000s will be deployed by the Navy's hydrographic vessel to define the most accurate position possible of the flight recorders.

[Hervé]

An investigation committee says it has found wreckage from the EgyptAir jet that disappeared over the Mediterranean last month. (http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160615/1041406230/egyptair-wreckage-found.html)


Sputnik (http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160615/1041406230/egyptair-wreckage-found.html) Europe (http://sputniknews.com/europe/) 23:08 15.06.2016
(updated 01:44 16.06.2016)


https://www.sott.net/image/s16/325529/large/1039920783.jpg
© AP Photo/ Thomas Ranner

EgyptAir Wreckage Found in Mediterranean Sea by French Vessel

The wreckage of EgyptAir flight 804 was discovered by a French vessel, the John Lethbridge, according to Egypt's Aviation Ministry. A statement says that "several main locations of the wreckage" have been found.

[...]

Earlier this week, investigators expressed concerns that the aircraft's black box would stop emitting signals on June 24, making it almost impossible to find the aircraft.

[Cidersomerset]

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.19.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

EgyptAir MS804 crash: Voice recorder recovered from sea

3 hours ago
From the section Middle East

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36551464

Finally, Crashed EgyptAir Jet's Black Box Recovered

HNSznOWMU_A

[Hervé]

EgyptAir crash: Second flight recorder recovered [FDR] (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36557134)

1 hour ago
From the section Middle East (http://www.bbc.com/news/world/middle_east)


http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/F03D/production/_90010516_mediaitem90010513.jpg
Image copyright AFP Image caption A specialist vessel, John Lethbridge, located and recovered the flight recorders EgyptAir disaster



The flight data recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed in the Mediterranean Sea last month has been retrieved, Egyptian investigators say.

The news comes a day after search teams recovered the cockpit voice recorder from the wreckage of Flight MS804.

Both recorders, known as the "black boxes", are crucial to discovering why the Airbus A320 came down on 19 May, killing all 66 people on board.

The plane was flying from Paris to Cairo when it vanished from radar.

Investigators have said it is too early to rule out any causes for the crash, including terrorism.

'Several pieces'
The Egyptian investigation committee said the data recorder had been "retrieved in several pieces" by a specialist ship, the John Lethbridge.

The ship, operated by Deep Ocean Search (http://www.deepoceansearch.com/Vessel.htm), found the plane's wreckage on Wednesday in several locations about 290km (180 miles) north of the Egyptian coast, at a depth of about 3,000m (9,800ft).

The data recorder is usually located in the plane's tail along with the voice recorder, which had to be salvaged in stages on Thursday because it was badly damaged.

The investigation committee said the data from the second recorder's memory unit will be downloaded once it has been transferred to the Egyptian port of Alexandria.



http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1656D/production/_90010519_98627062-a4bd-49ec-9a8f-2a54ee5bfb4c.jpg
Image copyright EPA Image caption The John Lethbridge has an underwater robot capable of diving to 3,000m The data recorder gathers information about the plane's speed, altitude and direction.


Earlier on Friday, an unnamed official in the investigation committee told AP news agency that the voice recorder's data was already being analysed by experts, including representatives of France's air safety agency and the plane's manufacturer, Airbus.

The cause of the crash remains a mystery.


http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/372D/production/_89752141_egyptair_ocean_depth_map624.png

Egypt's civil aviation minister has said a terrorist attack is more likely than a technical failure.

Automated electronic messages sent by the plane revealed that smoke detectors went off in a toilet and in the avionics area below the cockpit, minutes before the plane's signal was lost.

On Monday, the investigation committee confirmed that radar data showed the plane turned 90 degrees left and then 360 degrees to the right, dropping from 11,300m (37,000ft) to 4,600m (15,000ft) and then 3,000m (10,000ft) before it disappeared.

[Hervé]

Official Egyptian update (10)
Cairo,17th of June 2016


After the sucess in retrieving the CVR of the doomed A320; John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government; has managed to retrieve the second black box which is the FDR. The FDR was also retrieved in several stages but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder. Immediately the General Prosecution was notified that the second data recorder was also found and accordingly issued its decision to hand over the 2 data recorders to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations. Transfer process of the 2 data recorders from the vessel to Alexandria is under process; which will be received by members from the General Prosecution and the Investigation Committee.17/06/2016

[Hervé]

The French BEA update, quoting the Egypt Civil Aviation authority, following the recovery of both CVR and FDR:

Official Egyptian update (11)

"Cairo, 17th of June 2016

The Technical Investigation committee for the A320 downed in the Mediterranean mid of last month; has received the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) from the general prosecution; after being retrieved from the aircraft wreckage location.

The two data recorders will be handed over to the Central Department for Aircraft Accident at the Ministry of Civil Aviation to start analysing them in order to unload their data.

The analysis of data may take several weeks; if the memory units at both recorders are in good condition; then the unloading process will start right away at the labs of the Central Department for Aircraft Investigation. Whereas if there is a minor damage at both or either of them; the damage will be repaired locally; but if the damage is major ; then the repair process will be conducted abroad under the supervision of the Investigation Committee.

It is worth mentioning that the technical investigation for the accident does not end by extracting data from the retrieved recorders; which is considered of a major importance but still act as part of the exclusive investigation process."

[Hervé]

Official Egyptian update (12)
Cairo, 19th of June 2016


On Saturday the 18th of June; the investigation committee started the process of inspecting parts of both CVR and FDR, the approved representative of France and his consulting experts witnessed this process. Whereas approved Representative and consultants from the US as the engine manufacturer also joined the investigation committee.

Memory units of both recorders were removed at the labs of the Central Department for Aircraft Investigation at the Ministry of Civil Aviation as a preparation to start the drying stage which was conducted at the Technical Research Center of the Armed Forces using modern high-Tech drying ovens. The drying stage took 8 consecutive hours and it was made in attendance of members of the investigation committee, and the adviser to the approved representative of France, who has a wide expertise in dealing with the plane recorders.

Electrical tests of memory units of the recorders are in progress which will be followed by the data unloading phase. It is worth mentioning that John Lethbrige, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government to join the search for the plane wreckage, is proceeding its tasks of drawing a map of the wreckage distribution at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

[Hervé]

EgyptAir MS804 flight recorders: efforts to extract data fail (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/24/egyptair-flight-804-access-data-recorders-information-fail-)

Friday 24 June 2016 01.56 BST
Last modified on Friday 24 June 2016 02.15 BST

Fight data and voice recorders from crashed plane will be flown to Paris for repairs before being returned to Cairo


http://hamrakura.com/uploads/news/images/blackbox.jpg.jpeg (http://hamrakura.com/uploads/news/images/blackbox.jpg.jpeg)
The voice and data recorders from EgyptAir flight 804, which crashed into the Mediterranean on 19 May. Photograph: HO/AFP/Getty Images


Initial attempts to download information from the flight data and voice recorders of an EgyptAir plane that crashed into the Mediterranean last month have failed, and key parts of the recorders are being sent to France (https://www.theguardian.com/world/france) for repairs, according to Egyptian and US officials.

The “electronic boards” of the recorders will be flown next week to the offices of the French aviation accident investigation bureau near Paris, authorities said. After the boards are repaired and salt removed, they will be sent back to Cairo for data analysis, Egypt’s investigation committee said in a statement late on Thursday.

The recorders, also known as black boxes, were extensively damaged when EgyptAir flight 804 travelling from Paris to Cairo plunged into the sea on 19 May, killing all 66 people on board.

French and US investigators have overseen the effort to extract information from the recorders. The recorders were made by Honeywell, a US company. The plane, an A320, is made by Airbus, which is based in France.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/2facf82e304743115d6896b996a1cbeab2ad37e9/0_60_1200_720/1200.jpg?w=460&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&
The black box memory units typically provide investigators with critical data, including the pilots’ conversations, details about how the plane’s engines, navigation systems, and auto-pilot were working, and even information about smoke alarms.

The pilots made no distress call before the crash, and no group has claimed to have brought down the aircraft.

Radar data showed the aircraft had made violent moves after cruising normally in clear skies, plummeting from 38,000ft (11,582 metres) to 15,000ft (4,572 metres). It disappeared when it was at an altitude of about 10,000ft (3,048 metres).

Leaked flight data indicated a sensor had detected smoke in a lavatory and a fault in two of the plane’s cockpit windows in the final moments of the flight. Egypt’s civil aviation minister, Sherif Fathi, has said terrorism was a more probable cause than equipment failure or some other catastrophic event.


Related: Missing EgyptAir flight: what we know so far (https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/may/19/egyptair-flight-ms804-paris-cairo-missing-video-explainer)

[Hervé]

Crashed EgyptAir flight data recorder successfully repaired: investigation committee (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-egyptair-airplane-datarecorder-idUSKCN0ZD2WP)

Reuters Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:58pm EDT


http://s2.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160627&t=2&i=1143125384&w=644&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=LYNXNPEC5Q1SI
A flight recorder retrieved from the crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 is seen in this undated picture issued June 17, 2016. EGYPTIAN AVIATION MINISTRY via Reuters


Egypt investigators said on Monday that the flight data recorder of crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 had been successfully repaired, paving the way for investigators to analyze data that may explain why the jet plunged into the Mediterranean last month.

The investigators added in a statement that the doomed plane's cockpit voice recorder would begin to be worked on "within hours" also.

The recorders arrived in Paris from Cairo on Monday to remove salt deposits. They will be sent back to a laboratory in Cairo to analyze the data once the repairs are completed, the statement added.

(Reporting by Eric Knecht)

[Hervé]

Investigation Progress Report (19) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee (http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_30_6_16.html)

Cairo, 29 June 2016

Following the successful download of the data of the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) of the doomed A320, decoding and validation of more than 1200 parameter is in progress in order to commence the next phase of reading and analyzing the data.

Preliminary information shows that the entire flight is recorded on the FDR since its take off from charles de gaulle airport until the recording had stopped at an altitude of 37 thousand feet [FL370] where the accident occurred.

Recorded data is showing a consistency with ACARS messages of lavatory smoke and avionics smoke.

Some recovered wreckage parts of the front section of the aircraft showed signs of high temperature damage and soot .

Analysis will be carried out to try to identify the source and reason for those signs.

Regarding the CVR, repairs are still under progress at the French aircraft accident investigation bureau.

Noteworthy; Collection of identified human remains is still ongoing and will continue till full recovery of all the remains at the crash location.


29/06/2016

[Hervé]

Official Egyptian Investigation Report (20) (http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_2_7_16.html)

Cairo,2 july 2016

Extensive examinations that were carried out at the French aircraft accident Investigation Bureau; on the electronic board components of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) of the A320’; showed that none of the memory ships of the electronic board was damaged .

However some other supportive components associated with communication to and from the memory chips had to be removed and replaced with new ones; whereas advanced high technology will be used to extract the recordings of these units .

After the replacement of the CVR board components; tests results were satisfactory as it enabled the reading of the recorders of the CVR memory unit .

The investigation committee members are planning to return back soon to Cairo with the fixed boards to continue reading and analyzing the FDR and CVR at the central department for aircraft accident at the Ministry of Civil Aviation .

It is worth mentioning that collecting human remains continues according to planned standard procedures.

02/07/2016

[Hervé]

Investigation Progress Report (25) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee (http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_16_7_16.html)

CAIRO - 16 July 2016
The Technical Investigation Committee of the A320 accident had primarily studied FDR data as well as performing time correlation between FDR and CVR data.

The committee had also unloaded CVR and started listening to the cockpit voice recordings before the occurrence of the accident; where the existence of a "fire" was mentioned. Still it is too early to determine the reason or the place where that fire occurred.

Additional work on the CVR, the FDR and the recovered debris is continuing.

The Vessel John Lethbridge had reached the port of Alexandria today after the end of its mission, which had been extended for the second time, after making sure of the recovery of all human remains at the site of the accident. Required coordination with the Department of Forensic Medicine were made to receive the vessel in preparation for the transfer of the remains to Cairo to complete the DNA analysis and carrying out standard procedures followed in this regard.

[Fanna]

Farsight Project Remote Viewing speculates involvement of the Phoenix Express 2016 Naval Exercise.

jg-C5Cgk6Gc

[Hervé]

Traces of explosives found in Egyptair crash: investigators (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-egyptair-crash-investigation-idUSKBN1441PW)

By Lin Noueihed (http://www.reuters.com/journalists/lin-noueihed) and Tim Hepher (http://www.reuters.com/journalists/tim-hepher) | CAIRO/PARIS | Thu Dec 15, 2016 | 6:41pm EST



http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20161215&t=2&i=1165657977&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=780&pl=468&sq=&r=LYNXMPECBE1J1
Part of a plane chair among recovered debris of the EgyptAir jet that crashed in the Mediterranean Sea is seen in this handout image released May 21, 2016 by Egypt's military. Egyptian Military/Handout via Reuters

Egyptian investigators said on Thursday traces of explosives had been found on the remains of victims of an Egyptair flight that crashed en route from Paris to Cairo, but French officials warned against drawing conclusions on the cause of the crash.

Flight MS 804 plunged into one of the deepest parts of the Mediterranean Sea on May 19, killing all 66 people on board.

Egypt's investigation committee issued a statement saying the coroner had found traces of explosives on the remains of some victims. It gave no more details but said its findings were sent to prosecutors investigating foul play.


http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/p/k/1/x/i/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gtca0c.png/1481839332444.jpg
Personal belongings and other wreckage retrieved from EgyptAir flight 804. Photo: Egyptian Armed Forces

"The technical investigation committee ... places itself and its expertise at the disposal of prosecutors," it said.

A judicial source said the prosecution had not received details about the explosives traces but would include the coroner's findings in its inquiries.

An Egyptian source familiar with the matter said Egypt had informed France months ago about its findings but French investigators had requested more time to study them.

"That is why it took so long to make an announcement," the source said, declining to be named as the investigation is continuing.

Paris newspaper Le Figaro reported in September that French investigators had seen traces of TNT on the plane's debris but were prevented from further examining it. Egyptian officials denied at the time obstructing French inquiries.

France has hinted at its frustration at the pace of the investigation but has stopped short of openly criticising Cairo, with which it enjoys broadly positive relations and which has ordered French Rafale fighter jets.

SMOKE
France's foreign ministry said the causes were still being investigated and appeared to hint that it had been kept at arm's length.

"France, like it has been from the beginning of this tragic accident, remains at the disposal of the relevant Egyptian authorities to contribute to this investigation, including with the means of its experts," it said.

In a rare statement on an ongoing foreign investigation, France's BEA air crash investigation agency said on Thursday no conclusions could be drawn on what might have caused the crash.

"In the absence of detailed information on the conditions and ways in which samples were taken leading to the detection of traces of explosives, the BEA considers that it is not possible at this stage to draw conclusions on the origin of the accident," a spokeswoman said.

The BEA is accredited to the Egyptian-led investigation because the Airbus aircraft was designed and built in France.

Two Western sources briefed on the investigation expressed reservations about the explosives findings and said a technical cause remained the most likely. The pattern of wreckage also suggested the plane hit the sea intact at high speed, they said.

One of the sources said the traces of explosives reportedly found appeared to be identical to samples previously held in stock, whereas there would usually be tiny forensic differences. Neither source agreed to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Airbus declined comment.

Audio from the flight recorder mentions a fire on board the plane in its final moments and analysis of the flight data recorder showed smoke in the lavatory and avionics bay.

The Paris prosecutor's office opened a manslaughter investigation in June but said it was not looking into terrorism as a possible cause at that stage.

No group has claimed responsibility for the crash.

In October 2015, a bomb brought down a Metrojet plane carrying Russian holidaymakers home from the Red Sea resort of Sharm al-Sheikh, killing all 224 people on board.

Islamic State claimed responsibility for that attack, saying it smuggled aboard explosives in a soft drink can.

(Additional reporting by Asma Alsharif, Haitham Ahmed in Cairo and John Irish in Paris; Editing by Janet Lawrence, Larry King and Andrew Hay)

[Hervé]

The official report: (http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_15_12_16.html)

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/image003.jpg

CAIRO - 15 Dec 2016

Investigation Progress Report # (26) of Egypt air flight 804 by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

The central directorate of aircraft accident investigation at the ministry of civil aviation had received the forensic report related to the victims human remains, the report indicated that traces of explosive substance on some of the victims human remains has been found.

According to article # 108 of the Egyptian civil aviation law # 28/1981 which has been amended by law 136 /2010 ".

The Egyptian aircraft accident investigation committee has transferred the case to the Egyptian Prosecution Bureau for further investigation and availed its technical knowledge and expertise to the bureau when needed.

15/12/2016

[Hervé]

Egyptair crash: no trace of explosives on victims, says French newspaper (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/egyptair-crash-no-trace-of-explosives-on-victims-says-french-newspaper)

UK Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/06/egyptair-crash-no-trace-of-explosives-on-victims-says-french-newspaper)
Sat, 06 May 2017 18:32 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s19/394315/large/Egyptair_crash.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s19/394315/full/Egyptair_crash.jpg)


Le Figaro says French investigators have ruled out theory that bomb was responsible for disaster last May that killed 66 people

French investigators have found no traces of explosives on the bodies of French victims of Egyptair flight MS804 that crashed into the Mediterranean last year en route from Paris to Cairo, a newspaper has reported.

Le Figaro's report, which a source with knowledge of the matter confirmed to Reuters, contradicts Egyptian investigators who said in December that traces of explosives were found in the remains of victims of the flight.

French officials had warned in December against drawing conclusions on the cause of the 19 May 2016 crash that killed all 66 people on board including 12 French nationals.

Investigators of France's National Gendarmerie Criminal Investigation Institute, who examined samples of the remains, concluded there were no traces of explosives on the bodies of the passengers, Le Figaro reported.

"The thesis put forward by the Egyptians - an explosion during the flight due to a bomb that may have been placed on board at Roissy airport in Paris - is therefore excluded," Le Figaro said.

The remains of the 12 French nationals were returned to France in January.