David Icke Debunked (Full Movie)

[irishspirit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbEgvx1qelw&feature=player_embedded#!

Interesting Video with a lot of BS in my view in this. Boy, either the Government fear this man real bad, or someone got to much time on their hands.

[Kulapops]

Oh.. please tell us more?

Can we have some bullet points? I do try to avoid watching anything that's over ten minutes these days... unless it absolutely sings and rocks, and is pretty life changing stuff.

I still, really, really, want to read Mr Icke's book, it's about four arms lengths from me even now... but I just can't seem to muster the enthusiasm. It would save me a read if someone says it's all tosh. But if what they're saying is all tosh, then it's back to the drawing board.

My guess is we can't believe anything we read or see unless we've had direct firsthand experience of it ourselves. Which kind of narrows me down to an extremely small area of expertise.

Pool anyone ?

[Elandiel BernElve]

Pool seems a good idea, which planet?

[Banshee]

I haven't watched the attached vid yet, but even if David is not legit, what's wrong with his message? His message is most important.

Still watching. Very long video. In my opinion, this video has the fingerprints of the ADL all over it.

[Kulapops]

Small blue green ball into the black hole ?

Hmm there are several ways to look at this. I know this may not sound popular, but :

We can either thank the likes of Jones and Icke to 'waking' us up to the bigger picture...or it could be that they are not pitching the whole truth, or even making things seem worse than they are. I don't know the truth of the real situation, but , logically, we have found certain things to not be true, logically , other things may not be true either.

Here's me believing the Queen really IS a shpaeshifting reptile, and actually, perhaps there's a small chance that she's not. Wow. Just think of the implication of that truth. And if she's not an alien.. and the moon isn't hollow.. then what else is not entirely correct?

So maybe they have done a favour, but maybe they haven't. Personally, I like Dave, I like his 'common man' approach. I hope details of his dicoveries get proven one way or another. Perhaps without Icke, there would be no Wikileaks to found.... or camelot even for that matter.... he's the original truthseeker..

[Bill Ryan]

------

To save you the time, a full transcript is here:

http://davidickedebunked.com/?page_id=13

It ends like this:

********


Jesus spoke of the time that’s coming, he said:

Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be delivered.

It interesting that here is a guy that not even his enemies can find a good reason to accuse him, He is entirely just and sincere, and humble, in the bible, yet for some unknown reason, what he said is absolutley true, we will be hated for his name sake.

This hate has to come from a third party, the illuminati perverts the bible to make you think that religion is equal with Jesus so that you will reject Him.

I submit to all of you that Jesus was the most anti-religious person that ever walked the face of the earth, he had nothing but compassion for sinners of even the worst kind…the only harsh things he ever said was to the clergy of his day….oh and the bankers.

The reason the mere calling on his name crushes whatever force is behind sleep paralysis and so called alien abductions is because he really is who he claimed to be. And the demons are just as scared of him now as they were during the pages of the bible.

Jesus said Matthew 11:28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Matthew 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Christianity is not a belief system it’s a supernatural event that happens to you, your life begins to change, you start to love the things of God and hate the things of sin, you are given new power to turn from things that have you in chains, it doesn’t mean you will be prefect but you will start to change and that change will continue your whole life, it is freedom from bondage not a list of rules.

Mark 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Acts 17:30 “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

I do not think that David Icke knows that he is being used as a tool for the new world order, I would like to think that he would turn from his ways if he could be convinced of it. I want to ask you to help me pray for Mr Icke.

[Steven]

That's just another debunking from Chris White. It's been the third time now on this forum that I lift the flag about Mr. 'crusader' Chris White. If you search a bit for the man, you will notice that he has debunked almost all of the most popular 'whistleblowers/researchers' in the anglo saxon comunity.

But, he even debunked the Mayan calendars! Hehe. Anyway, the guy isn't interested in the truth, but rather defending his own beleif system. He was once a member of avalon1 and came to debunk. He wasn't with us for long...

Hope this help, just search for the man and you'll see my point.

His material are a lost of precious time, that's for sure in my perspective.

Namaste, Steven

[mountain_jim]

I recently finished Icke's latest book - Human Race Get Off Your Knees.

It was a very worthwhile read, in my opinion. The last thing David is - is a 'tool for the new world order'.

Thanks Bill for saving me the trouble of investing more time in evaluating this attack on his message.

(first post after joining yesterday)

[Fred Steeves]

Thanks for the grand finale there Bill, that saves even more time. I like to pop in to various 'debunked' sites when I come across them, just to make sure there's not something I may have overlooked. Never hurts to double check one's self, no? This one seems about par for the course, an insult to the intellect.

Cheers,
Fred

[Banshee]

------

I do not think that David Icke knows that he is being used as a tool for the new world order, I would like to think that he would turn from his ways if he could be convinced of it. I want to ask you to help me pray for Mr Icke.
[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

Bill,

Sorry, I don't understand your sentence. Could you please clarify? Do you believe that David Icke is being used as a tool for the NWO?

Thank you

[Luke]

Bill,

Sorry, I don't understand your sentence. Could you please clarify? Do you believe that David Icke is being used as a tool for the NWO?

Thank you

Bill quoted text from site he linked too! ..

[irishspirit]

Bill,

Sorry, I don't understand your sentence. Could you please clarify? Do you believe that David Icke is being used as a tool for the NWO?

Thank you

I do not believe that this was Bills Statement, I could be wrong.

[Fred Steeves]

Banshee, that confused me at first too, had to read it a couple of times because it didn't sound like something Bill would say. He didn't. He just displayed the last part or the movie transcript.

Cheers,
fred

[Fredkc]

Thanks, Steven.
I just dumped about 1/2 page of silly quotes from the transcript, and you saved me a very large amount of typing. Skimming over the transcript, it seems like a rather desperate attempt at associating Icke with everything from NWO, possession, fairies, demons, and psychosis, to bad drugs. THEN he tries to make a case that none of this exists.

From what little I've read of him, even David Icke himself isn't this convoluted. And frankly, I speak to Jesus nearly every day, and he has yet to mention Chris White.

You would think a person with this much energy might spend a little time on what he does believe. Maybe next time.
Fred

[Wood]

I think Bill meant with his post that the people behind the video are religious nuts. I'm watching the video myself though.

[Bill Ryan]

I think Bill meant with his post that the people behind the video are religious nuts. I'm watching the video myself though.

Right. The indented text in my post was all quoted directly from the transcript.


Sorry, I don't understand your sentence. Could you please clarify? Do you believe that David Icke is being used as a tool for the NWO?


Of course not! :)

[Banshee]

thank god (lol) - the last paragraph didn't end in quotes, my fuzzy brain thought those were Bill's words....... thought we had another time line change there for a minute :)

My apologies to Bill Ryan for asking a question that I should have known the answer to ( and for wasting his time).

[Steven]

...And frankly, I speak to Jesus nearly every day, and he has yet to mention Chris White...

;) Oh man! You cracked me up again!

I'm waiting for the day Chris will actually debunk Jesus himself because he would be the only one left in the universe who hasn't been yet debunked. :eek:

Namaste, Steven

[norman]

Actually......... errrr.....((( flame suit goes on top of asbestos underwear )))....I think it's a very good breakdown of the big picture.

It doesn't dent my respect for David Icke one bit.

For me, it just ups the name of the game a tad.

Eventually all truth workers betray their pet entrainments and this guy betrayes his, he's clearly a bible 'basher'. That doesn't disqualify him from contributing his best efforts to the discussion though. In any healthy discussion we try to air the most precious of peoples views without getting bogged down in individual struggles.

I got a lot from this film. Perhaps not what the creator might have wanted me to get from it, but I got a lot. He has a clarity of logic that would be nice to see more.

After watching the entire video I don't feel that he has "debunked" David Icke at all. David Icke comes out of it still David Icke ' the truth worker' that he was before it started. We are all scrambling around sifting and sorting clues and getting things wrong etc etc.... David Icke is still monumental in that scramble in my eyes.

:peep:

[Carmody]

...to bad drugs

Having 'come up' through the "Hunter S" school of self warping, I'd like to make a case for that, if I may... :p.

I's kinda like that 'guy' line about sex, even bad sex -is still good.

Knowing when to stop is the key. No, I certainly don't advise that sort of path for anyone... and after visiting it, I found I could get much higher with nothing in my system.

[Kulapops]

Thanks Steven and Norman for your takes on Chris white and the movie.

I think it's very useful for those who have watched these to post their reviews for the rest of us. It can save such a lot of time. Like I said, I won't watch anything over ten minutes these days unless it is totally recommended viewing.

[Ross]

I won't watch anything over ten minutes these days unless it is totally recommended viewing.

Very good advice! One I follow.

Ross

[Wood]

I think it's very useful for those who have watched these to post their reviews for the rest of us. It can save such a lot of time. Like I said, I won't watch anything over ten minutes these days unless it is totally recommended viewing.

IMHO the whole point about seeking the truth is to actually seek it instead of waiting for others to share their [biased] views. I've learnt a few things from the video myself.

[Alaois]

Long transcript, a lot to digest.
First take:

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a direct tie in to Alice B. Bailey and David Icke. I understand it could have been a meeting of a secret cult, possibly the Rosicrucians in my mind, as it was ended with "to the 33 degree. Hitler somehow blamed it on the Jewish Nation.

As far as the seven rays go "ceremonial magic" in the seventh ray could be translated as taking ones time to bless Mother Nature and Father Earth.

Alice B. Bailey was riding the fence as far as I can see getting the truth out there best she could. Madame Blavatsky was the true villain.

In one of Bailey's books she talks about the Dark Brothers from the West (United States of America) and the Dark Brothers from the East (China). They are secretly working together to trigger WWIII and the destruction of all mankind. A whole planet of despotic tyranny. I feel she was actually out to warn people and was put in a difficult position being involved with unnatural alchemists and the likes.

Her books were available on the internet free on CD at one time but they stopped that until further notice.

Alaois

[sjkted]

My review:

The documentary was very good and well worth watching IMO. Bill Ryan's material is used several times at 1:32 and other places.

It is not a hit piece on David Icke per se, but an expose on the power structure as it is, similar to Alex Jones' The Obama Deception.

For those who have read my posts lately on Keisha and wonder why I'm so passionate about these people being a subtle deception, it will explain my case quite well.

It's something we all need to take a look at. There are otherworldly sources that communicate with humanity in some ways obvertly (i.e. channeling) and in more covert methods (i.e. through other people and manipulation of events).

What many people do not know is that David Icke's main source for much of his material is channeling.

His sources fit in very well with the message of Madam Balavatsky and Alice Baily, who have been commonly understood to be demonic.

My contention, as well as the message of the documentary is that these sources (light and dark) are one and the same -- demonic. They portray themselves as Reptilians to some people, but it is only a smoke screen. They have a plan for humanity, which they are working quite well and the "truth" movement is accepting due to the "love and light" message.

People need to wake up again. There is a deception within the deception. It's one thing to know that there is an Illuminati/NWO, which many people know about now. The next deception is that they are being manipulated by external sources, and that they are extremely widespread and are an even bigger threat to humanity.

Please watch this documentary. I would like to hear some critical thoughts on this.

--sjkted

[sjkted]

That's just another debunking from Chris White. It's been the third time now on this forum that I lift the flag about Mr. 'crusader' Chris White. If you search a bit for the man, you will notice that he has debunked almost all of the most popular 'whistleblowers/researchers' in the anglo saxon comunity.

But, he even debunked the Mayan calendars! Hehe. Anyway, the guy isn't interested in the truth, but rather defending his own beleif system. He was once a member of avalon1 and came to debunk. He wasn't with us for long...

Hope this help, just search for the man and you'll see my point.

His material are a lost of precious time, that's for sure in my perspective.

Namaste, Steven


What was his screen name on AV1? IMO, we need more people like him here.

--sjkted

[Wood]

I agree with the review by sjkted. I have also found it very interesting the debunking of the attempt to identify Jesus Christ with 'the fisher king'. It was bothering me for months since my research points to Jesus not being an annunaki/pleiadian/reptilian/sea reptilian/shapeshifter demon at all, and thus I felt it is weird any title related to 'fish' or sea. I've looked up and the fisher king might be an obscure reference to pleiadians playing the role of the true Gods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcyone


In Greek mythology, Alcyone (Ancient Greek: Ἁλκυόνη Halkyónē) was the daughter of Aeolus, either by Enarete or Aegiale. She married Ceyx, son of Eosphorus, the Morning Star.
They were very happy together in Trachis, and according to Pseudo-Apollodorus's account, often sacrilegiously called each other "Zeus" and "Hera". This angered Zeus, so while Ceyx was at sea (going to consult an oracle according to Ovid's account), the god threw a thunderbolt at his ship. Ceyx appeared to Alcyone as an apparition to tell her of his fate, and she threw herself into the sea in her grief. Out of compassion, the gods changed them both into halcyon birds, named after her.
Ovid and Hyginus both also recount the metamorphosis of the pair in and after Ceyx's loss in a terrible storm, though they both omit Ceyx and Alcyone calling each other Zeus and Hera (and Zeus's resulting anger) as a reason for it. Ovid also adds the detail of her seeing his body washed up onshore before her attempted suicide.
Ovid and Hyginus both also make the metamorphosis the origin of the etymology for "halcyon days", the seven days in winter when storms never occur. They state that these were originally the seven days each year (either side of the shortest day of the year) during which Alcyone (as a kingfisher) laid her eggs and made her nest on the beach and during which her father Aeolus, god of the winds, restrained the winds and calmed the waves so she could do so in safety. The phrase has since become a term used to describe a peaceful time generally.

Note that Alcyone is a star in the in the Pleiades cluster.

The name 'fisher king' makes me think of a kind of dark harvest, crossing the veil between spheres.

EDIT: I want to add that I still think David Icke is well meant but IMHO he may not have got it all right.

[str8thinker]

I've always been a fan of David for his straightforward approach. D'loading the MP4 video now. Note it is about half the size of the corresponding YouTube Video (depending on the resolution). Will return and add my thoughts when I have watched it.

(much later)
David Icke Debunked was produced by Chris Wright, who has a radio program and several websites, the chief one appearing to be http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/

At first I thought Chris to be a fairly objective person dissecting the origins of David Icke's belief system (and also taking a swipe at Jordan Maxwell along the way). But as the discussion progressed, Chris reveals himself to be equally biased as a Bible basher; here I agree with norman's post here on 9th December 2010.

Well, they can't both be right!

At this point something reminds me of the famous Crabwood crop circle of 2002 by our feathered serpent friend Quetzalcoatl, whose message apparently read:


Beware The Bringers Of False Gifts And Their Broken Promises
Much Pain But Still Time
There Is Good Out There
We Oppose Deception
Conduit Closing.


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa289/FreeSpeak/CRABWOODFORMATION-1.jpg

http://indigosociety.com/showthread.php?8591-%26%239829%3B-The-Message-Of-The-Crabwood-%28crop-Circle%29-Formation-2002-%26%239829%3B
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/time2007o.html


The question is, which one is the false prophet?

I think it's a great idea that Chris has chosen to take up the cudgels of the anti-Reptilian movement. I must admit David's idea of Reptilian shape-shifting has always sat a bit uneasily on my shoulders, despite support from people like Credo Mutwa, though Chris demonstrates that their interpretations differ in some respects. What is clear is that on both sides there is a lot more smoke than fire, a lot more assertion than hard evidence. For example, how do we know for sure that only Jesus's name works when it comes to scaring away demons, as Chris claims? On the other hand, if David expects us to take him literally, he should not have altered his stance on Jesus, particularly not claimed to be the reincarnation of Christ, as Chris quotes him in his books. I must say David increasingly comes across as incoherent at times. I was unaware of the extent to which he appears to rely on channelling for his information.

Chris Wright's documentary appears well researched; it has to be, otherwise he would get lumped in the same loony bin as all the rest. So those of us who believe David Icke has good points to make should not dismiss Chris's documentary outright but keep it and keep referring to it, cross checking the claims made on both sides. If we keep doing that, the real truth will surely emerge, and as David Icke himself says, THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.

[thinwhitejimmy]

i find it so crazy that we are sceptical of someone thats atleast bringing these subjects into the light when its our subject matter that everyone else is sceptical of! like a snake eating its own tail. ofcourse not everyone can be perfect but pay the guy his dues for standing up. thats the main point. seems like hes getting a whole lot further in whatever his goals are then sitting back.

[HORIZONS]

If thy light be darkness, then how great is that darkness?

[Steven]

What was his screen name on AV1? IMO, we need more people like him here.

--sjkted

Nowheretorun was his name :) No where to run! Proselytism isn't something we need more on Earth, here included.

Namaste, Steven

[sjkted]

i find it so crazy that we are sceptical of someone thats atleast bringing these subjects into the light when its our subject matter that everyone else is sceptical of! like a snake eating its own tail. ofcourse not everyone can be perfect but pay the guy his dues for standing up. thats the main point. seems like hes getting a whole lot further in whatever his goals are then sitting back.


Perhaps. But, I think we have a higher burden of proof to the mainstream. Not only do we need to have a good deal of evidence to convince the sceptics, but we need to contend with that crazy 'X factor/conspiracy theory' element that most people are uncomfortable with.

One thing about these channeled sources ('the guys' as Icke calls them) is that they can be very pushy. This explains why he proclaimed himself the Son of God on UK television a while ago, and why he actually believed it.

I give him credit for being around on the scene, and I'll admit I was taken in by this deception for a while, including the bit about a certain percentage of people needing to die to make way for the new Earth, etc. which is part of their agenda.

I would be curious at that point to see how much Icke speaks for 'the guys' and how much he is going off on his own and trying to help people.

--sjkted

[ronbono57]

I've read 3 of David's books and watched well over a hundred hours of his lectures & interviews and believe him to be 100% legit. Read the man's story, he and his family were the laughing stock of the UK for years, to say the least. Those laughing 15-20 years ago are now buying tickets to his lectures as much of what he warned about is staring us in the face. I can't see anyone putting themselves and their families through the hell they went through when David first started. He certainly wasn't getting rich.

[Limor Wolf]

Banshee, this is not Bill's words,its the sum up of the quotation before.

for me i wouldn't even bother with that kind of staff.David icke is one of the rarest people that i fully trust with integrity,extreme intelligence and extreme courage!
i highly respect him.that does not mean being blind and believe all he says,this is never recommended.but following all the things he is involved in...his articulation on the hardest approach topics,and those topics very well resonates with me.
he is a true man on a mission with balls the size of the earth (ups...very sorry for that last addition,is that o.k to say that?)

[Banshee]

thank god (lol) - the last paragraph didn't end in quotes, my fuzzy brain thought those were Bill's words....... thought we had another time line change there for a minute :)

My apologies to Bill Ryan for asking a question that I should have known the answer to ( and for wasting his time).

I know. We established that on December 9th. I had the flu- brain was fuzzy.

[str8thinker]

If David Icke is 100% genuine, why does he change his view so much in his later videos as compared with the earlier ones in David Icke Debunked? I agree Chris White is a bible basher, but still, a video interview is a time record.

One of the best indicators that a story is genuine is that it doesn't change much with time. If David came out and said more often "I used to believe this ... but I changed because of this ..." then I might be more inclined to believe him. But he tends to be dogmatic and unapologetic, a bad sign IMO. He could change his view in his next book. I don't think he has ever looked back and compared what he says now with what he used to say.

He also gives me the impression of making things up as he goes along. He strikes me as far from a polished speaker, compared with, say, Lloyd Pye.

One could stand back from all this and ask why should anyone believe anything that these luminaries of the truth seeking movement are spruiking? Perhaps we should all do this more often. We read what they say because deep down we would like to convince ourselves that at least part of what they say is true. But from the Bible to Scientology, from Wikileaks to Raelism, this is the oldest confidence trick in the book. When truth becomes so cloudy it is far easier to slip into showmanship than sit on the fence of scholarship. All these guys are guilty of doing this, some with less shame than others. Whenever someone has to employ channelling to convince us, I regard this as the method of last resort. It really gets bad when the distinction between channelling and subjective dreams becomes blurred. Of course, if someone were to invent a dream video camera...

The more David Icke writes and speaks, the more convoluted I find his message becomes and the more work it seems to take me to sift out his inconsistencies. In some way this reminds me of the way Richard de Mille's painstaking scholarship (http://www.sustainedaction.org/Explorations/demille_1976_summary.htm) uncovered the inconsistencies in Carlos Castaneda's books on Don Juan, unmasking him in the end. Although I have never sat and talked to David Icke personally, as Bill has, I am disinclined to swallow what others have published about his real persona, since these are all at second hand.

For all the good objective reporting David Icke has done with people such as Credo Mutwa, he is still a curate's egg to me - good in places, bad in others. It's doing him a disservice to cast him as purely genuine or purely showman. Let us be grateful that he is courageous to speak his ideas, which still have much to offer us, and take them with the recommended grain of salt.

[willow]

Hey guys :O)
Well, that was tough viewing...I like to think I have no sacred cows, but alas I've got a whole farm full of them and I may herd them or set them free! I would very much like to hear David Icke's reaction to this video. Anyways, it has to be said that DI's work has ultimately expanded, bent and blown my mind in ways like never before and how I see this life will never be the same, I'm glad about that. I have great respect for the man. 'Bible basher' or no...this is very well researched and presented material. It obliterates anything else I've seen or read on the subject of debunking David Icke (or trying abismally to)... I think this is vital for our consideration. From what I can tell having just watched it, yes the guy is obviously a follower of Jesus but that's really neither here nor there when weighed alongside the comprehensive and well considered nature of the presentation. I think he obviously tried not to let the emotive nature of his beliefs about Jesus cloud his argument too much but as is natural our personal beliefs will bleed into such things... I think if we really are truth seekers, then it would do none of us any harm to watch and consider what is presented here. I don't for a minute think that all spirit contact is ultimately dark forces, and that Jesus of Arimithea was (as he seems to posit) the one and only true source of 'light' (if he existed), I'm sure even the man himself would disagree with that!

Great post :O)

[last50cobra]

I think this is vital for our consideration. )

I think so too. The thing about the Solar Logos was interesting. The issue to me is that if the sun or its photons which come from the galactic center or whatnot are the thing that is suppose to reprogram people in the future or whatever, like Icke always says, he sure is at least wrong about the photon belt thing, and apparently the "Carl Sagan" thing... which makes it even weirder about the Alice Bailey solar logos / Galaxy Logos thing...if that makes sense.

[vericocha]

Bill was quoting from the transcript from the De-bunk video.

[willow]

I would have thought this thread of all threads would be buzzing with discussion...yet it's strangely quiet...why? :confused:

[Houman]

either the Government fear this man real bad, or someone got to much time on their hands.


There is one topic that they fear most and it is that of child abuse/kidnapping/sacrifice and David Icke has recently focused on that...

Usually the people who get too close to that topic end up dead, in jail or something is done to make them change focus... but in his (David') case it is more complicated...

They fear attention on that topic because of the "people" involved and its triggering impact on the psyche of the population... more than any other issue, this one (because of its ramifications) has the potential to shock a whole population out of its compliance/passivity/illusions...

[Fractalius]

Wasn't Chris White also involved with the smearing of Michael Tsarion? And also par-took in his Mtsar forum? Definitely sounds like a serial offender. hah

[Bill Ryan]

There is one topic that they fear most and it is that of child abuse/kidnapping/sacrifice and David Icke has recently focused on that...

Usually the people who get too close to that topic end up dead, in jail or something is done to make them change focus... but in his (David') case it is more complicated...

They fear attention on that topic because of the "people" involved and its triggering impact on the psyche of the population... more than any other issue, this one (because of its ramifications) has the potential to shock a whole population out of its compliance/passivity/illusions...

Hi, Houman:

Many thanks for this extremely important post.

(Folks, read this one more time...)

Cheers, Bill

[StephenW11UK]

Hi Banshee, I think that, in a difficult area of research, you have misundestood just who is saying what. It seems to me that Bill is quoting the guy, Chris, who has put together the video you might have wasted your time watching. What Bill has done is to give us the last part of that video in written form, and he gives us the the link to where he got it from. I'm quite certain that Bill himself believes that he video is laden down with BS.

P.S. I didn't realise when I wrote this that numbers of posters had already answered your question, Banshee.

[Houman]

Hi, Houman

Hi Bill :wave:

[last50cobra]

Wasn't Chris White also involved with the smearing of Michael Tsarion? And also par-took in his Mtsar forum? Definitely sounds like a serial offender. hah

From the same youtube page:

LeIVz9lCZqQ

[deucalion2012]

What puzzles me is the correlations between Icke's work and Alice Bailey's work. I don't understand how Icke can draw so much from someone so pro New World order if he is trying expose the New World Order. It doesn't make sense. I don't think Icke is a deceiver or a charlatan but something doesn't make sense. Bailey believes the solar logos will help bring in the New World Order. Icke believes the solar logos will help humanity break free and overcome the New World Order. Well, which is it?

[jeannacav]

Hi everybody,
I think David I does a really great job and is impeccable, as well.

Isn't it entirely possible that he says one thing from his research then later changes his mind because he sees other information?

I was angry when I heard him point his finger at Djwahl Kuhl (Alice Bailey's informant)
David's reason was that DK had proposed the coming of the hierarchy and the 'new world order' which was going to be a really wonderful way to live here in harmony with all.
David had only heard the more recent use of the term 'nwo' and let that turn his opinion.
Later, however, he must have heard or read some of the older works, because he seemed to lighten up about Alice Baily and DK.

There is no doubt about it, the books of Alice Bailey do smack of all the elements we are trying to be clear of. but, I think that is part of the whole deception too.

Well, this is something that has happened for millennia, that a group of light-working beings will start some excellent program only to become infiltrated by the controllers who slowly take over the positions and slowly begin to poison it.
It is only much later that the world realizes the deception that has occurred.

The Dane Tops information on PC describes this method in great detail so, please, have a look there if you are not aware of this.

I believe the original Illuminati were sincerely illuminated beings who were here to help.
Their ranks and families were infiltrated by the controllers, who even would get born into these families to bring them down.
There was nothing sacred that was not touched, so again it is up to us to discern.

But even if David changes his mind, it makes him more trustworthy in my mind, not less.
Because he has the courage to change his mind and admit a mistake makes me value his work even more.

Please, consider this as well.

thank you,

jeanna

[jeannacav]

What puzzles me is the correlations between Icke's work and Alice Bailey's work. I don't understand how Icke can draw so much from someone so pro New World order if he is trying expose the New World Order. It doesn't make sense. I don't think Icke is a deceiver or a charlatan but something doesn't make sense. Bailey believes the solar logos will help bring in the New World Order. Icke believes the solar logos will help humanity break free and overcome the New World Order. Well, which is it?

Ah, yes.
I just went into this a little in my post, but we were writing at the same time.

DK is one of the Masters of the far East, I think.
That is not verified, but there are many cross references that might apply.
If so, he is one of a few highly ascended beings that hang around here to help.
They were on the earth and raised their frequency to a high level and because they have been here for hundreds of years they have the continuity of memory and can really help a lot.
Naturally, everything they do will be a target.

If you have not read The Life and Teachings of The Masters of the Far East, please consider reading it.
It was an account of a dozen or so Americans who spent 3 years with these people in India Tibet and Nepal.
Baird Spalding who was one of the organizers of the trip and who was a stenographer took down all the words exactly.
It was amazing.


Published by DeVorss.

Anyway, they are working to help, but again we must do our part.
So, it is confusing because the controllers are trying to deceive us about them... Oh well!

jeanna

[Icecold]

Hey guys :O)
Well, that was tough viewing...I like to think I have no sacred cows, but alas I've got a whole farm full of them and I may herd them or set them free! I would very much like to hear David Icke's reaction to this video. Anyways, it has to be said that DI's work has ultimately expanded, bent and blown my mind in ways like never before and how I see this life will never be the same, I'm glad about that. I have great respect for the man. 'Bible basher' or no...this is very well researched and presented material. It obliterates anything else I've seen or read on the subject of debunking David Icke (or trying abismally to)... I think this is vital for our consideration. From what I can tell having just watched it, yes the guy is obviously a follower of Jesus but that's really neither here nor there when weighed alongside the comprehensive and well considered nature of the presentation. I think he obviously tried not to let the emotive nature of his beliefs about Jesus cloud his argument too much but as is natural our personal beliefs will bleed into such things... I think if we really are truth seekers, then it would do none of us any harm to watch and consider what is presented here. I don't for a minute think that all spirit contact is ultimately dark forces, and that Jesus of Arimithea was (as he seems to posit) the one and only true source of 'light' (if he existed), I'm sure even the man himself would disagree with that!

Great post :O)


From what I can tell having just watched it, yes the guy is obviously a follower of Jesus but that's really neither here nor there when weighed alongside the comprehensive and well considered nature of the presentation. I think he obviously tried not to let the emotive nature of his beliefs about Jesus cloud his argument too much but as is natural our personal beliefs will bleed into such things...

I read this differently. I think he snaked around the fact that he was pushing the barrow of Christianity at a time when everybody has had enough of the claptrap. They are insidious.

One can't say on the one hand that, the whole christian faith is a construct of mind control and on the other hand say, its truth. Sorry, I won't compromise my position on the dangers of this false ideology. The video is enough to prove my point. The fact is that the author was devious in his approach. Granted he did a lot of research but why does that change the fact that he is pushing a dying discredited ideology. He is a much bigger fraud than he suggests is David Icke.

[Flash]

------

To save you the time, a full transcript is here:

http://davidickedebunked.com/?page_id=13

It ends like this:

Acts 17:30 “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

I do not think that David Icke knows that he is being used as a tool for the new world order, I would like to think that he would turn from his ways if he could be convinced of it. I want to ask you to help me pray for Mr Icke.
[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

I did not catch right away that you were citing someone else and for a BRIEF but BRIEF instant I tought that Charles had succeeded on his first mission. Hi Hi Hi!

[Flash]

The more David Icke writes and speaks, the more convoluted I find his message becomes and the more work it seems to take me to sift out his inconsistencies.

This comment seems strange to me because it was much more difficult for me to accept lizards to start with years ago than it has been lately with "get off your knees" or something like "we are all extraordinary beings" and we need to be aware of it, or something aroung "love is all there is". These words speak for themselves, have been taught by the greatest thinkers and spiritual beings over milleniums and are also really coming from David's heart. We just need to feel it. The fundamental human message is right! As far as I am concerned, the more he speaks, THE LESS convoluted his message becomes. Is he used? It would be surprising in view of the number of people he awakened. Is everything he presents perfectly right? He is human... and I appreciate him for that.

[RedeZra]

I think it's great that so many come forward to challenge preconceived notions of reality because it makes us better detectives in the investigation of ourselves and the world around us ; )

[Gajanana]

David Icke spent years, say again... years! talking to empty halls and rows of silent chairs. The ridicule he has had to deal with is mind-blowing. I feel that he may have been introduced to some people and ideas, in order to lead him astray and maybe he did slip up now and again, but just look at the man. use your intuition and look into his eyes,
nothing that needs debunking. Is there really anyone out there that can debunk the message that we are Infinite Conciousness? If so please do, it would make for an interesting read.
my first post here boys n girls, but I've been reading this forum since day one... I hav'nt read every post, so forgive me if this has been suggested elsewhere. There are many solo "truthers" out there, Icke, Ryan, Wilcox etc... is'nt it time to pool our resources? The potential of one is infinite - the group potential is beyond words.
'av a good day people :o)

[deucalion2012]

So does he still go on about reptillians?

[StephenW11UK]

1] to Banshee, #17, I hope I speak for everyone posting on this thread, that you have no need to apologise for wasting anyone's time. Your question was an important one because, as you may have noticed, a number of us who attempted to answer your question were not completely sure that we had fully understood that last sentence either.

[2] to Bill, This is not a criticism, far from it, but I for one would find it helpful if you would make it quite clear to us that you are, in fact, quoting.

Probably when most of us went to school we learned to use inverted commas when quoting both speech and other people's views, just as was the norm in the classical novels we studied. Sometimes, for example when lots of inverted commas appear close together, even they can create confusion.

Another way that might work would be to - straight after the quote - add the words End of Quote. Or you may think up another solution altogether.

Thanks, Stephen.

[ThePythonicCow]

Probably when most of us went to school we learned to use inverted commas when quoting both speech and other people's views, just as was the norm in the classical novels we studied. Sometimes, for example when lots of inverted commas appear close together, even they can create confusion.
Or one can use the QUOTE mechanism provided by the forum software, as in:

This line is marked as quoted.
The QUOTE brackets can be entered into your reply post using the icon that looks like:

http://thepythoniccow.us/Project_Avalon_QUOTE.jpeg
You will find that icon as about the 16th icon in the row of 23 icons above the reply entry box.

[str8thinker]

I've given Mr David Icke a bit more thought and research, and now I've just about had a gutful of his insincerity.

Whatever he might have been when he began proselytising his own ideas, he has certainly changed as his ego inflated. Mind you, it may not be all his own fault. As bible-bashing as Chris Wright is, I empathize with his concluding remarks in his David Icke Debunked video:


I do not think that David Icke knows that he is being used as a tool for the new world order, I would like to think that he would turn from his ways if he could be convinced of it. I want to ask you to help me pray for Mr Icke.

Wright isn't the only one who feels this way about Icke. Ivan Fraser, in an unfortunately undated article titled David Icke, Arizona Wilder and the Biggest Secret (http://www.coffinman.co.uk/david_icke.htm) appears to have known him quite well. He begins:


The following is a short summary of a minor investigation into aspects of David Icke’s latest book and his star witnesses Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa. Wilder claims to have been a mind controlled slave who performed Satanic rituals for the Illuminati at which she witnessed many famous people including the Queen Mother, shapeshift physically from a human to a lizard and consume sacrificial victims. She claims that since her programming broke down she has been able to reveal this information to the wider public.

My own role in the Biggest Secret saga was that I was asked by David to help him check spelling and offer any further information to his initial draft of the book. It was following my input that David was introduced to Arizona and heard her revelations, which subsequently became a focal point within the book and used as ‘evidence’ to support various themes outlined therein.

Having discussed my concerns with David’s wife and having sent David e-mails outlining my concerns over errors in his book and a feeling I have that he has been set up with misinformation and been the target of psychic manipulation, over a period from before publication to very recently (September 1999), and as yet having absolutely no feedback from David about any of the major concerns, I decided to publish my findings at the David Icke website forum.

Consequently, I was banned from attending that forum by David Icke.

I wish it to be known that I bear David Icke no malice over this affair and the reason for publishing this information is to seek clarification and also offer information of which most may not be aware. My fears may be unfounded, but I feel that after reading this, you may see they are justified. And if my fears have solid foundation, these issues need urgent clarification, both for the sake of David Icke and his readers.

What follows is a most interesting analysis of Icke's sources of information which I will leave to you to read. He also mentions Credo Mutwa and Zecharia Sitchin. Finally he states:


Icke's Matrix is real. But Icke's portrayal of it and understanding of it is like a naive child's. He has no depth of understanding and insufficient experience in the field. His veil is strong, and his influence great - because he connects his ignorant level of energy with others of ignorance and the energy is transferred, auric field breached, and controllers plugged in.

When you finish reading it you may also come to the same view as me.

It also seems that Icke desperately wishes to hide the fact that he is a Mason and/or is rebelling against his father who was. This was borne out in a radio interview by Alan Watt (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com) with Hepsehboah (http://tommydark.blogspot.com/2005/10/war-peace-and-hehpsehboah.html):


monYPbbXa3M


Hepsehboah: Oh I must share something with you. At one time I ... and that was my last show with David Icke ... and I got him very upset when I brought up Masonry - Masonry in England - and Masonry, and possibly, I said, and possibly your dad.. I said because some people had spoken about you and Masonry... He just lost it!

Alan Watts: I do know, some old fellows who have been high up in Free Masonry and they went down and tested some of these speakers, David Icke was one, when he was in Toronto, and they gave him the handshake, the signals and [unclear] and Icke replied in kind.

You might now want to review these other PA threads in the light of this information:

Arizona Wilder - a guided tour down the rabbit hole... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10235)

David Icke - Why? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11056)

One parting thought: If Icke's tale about reptilian shapeshifters came from Arizona Wilder, this alone takes away a lot of its credibility.

[Bill Ryan]

It also seems that Icke desperately wishes to hide the fact that he is a Mason and/or is rebelling against his father who was. This was borne out in a radio interview by Alan Watt (http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com) with Hepsehboah (http://tommydark.blogspot.com/2005/10/war-peace-and-hehpsehboah.html):


monYPbbXa3M


Hi there - I have a great respect and appreciation for all your contributions and your clear thought: but the notion that David Icke is a Mason was not 'borne out' in that radio interview.

The woman, Hepsehboah, was simply saying that Icke was upset when confronted with the accusation that he was a Mason. (And she knew so much about Icke that she could not even pronounce his name.)

I sometimes get upset when people confront me with that, too - and all it means is that I've had it up to the eyebrows with people's stupidity.

Being a semi-public figure does not mean that one has to bear all mindless, thoughtless accusations with a smile and a laugh. Sometimes they hurt, at the end of a long day.

Believe me. Someone devotes their life to going right out on the thinnest limb one can imagine, and then one hears stuff like that.

It's like James Casbolt (Michael Prince) claiming I work for MI6, or Richard Sauder saying that that Project Camelot was a 1960s government project. Give me a break. After a while, you don't feel like laughing any more and you just wish people could be smarter or saner - preferably both.

For David Icke and his "Masonic handshake" - enjoy this very funny one minute outtake from my interview with him in 2010. He can't shake hands at all.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19bd2yTDkTI

[CyRus]

Hi,
I am aware that this is off topic, but it is relevant to Bill's post above:
Could someone please direct me to the mp3 link of that interview?

I can't seem to find it anywhere....

Thanks

[Limor Wolf]

Thanks for that Bill.a few month ago i was approached by all kinds of ignoramus rections on David icke on an israeli forum.all sorts of bending and twisting to prove that David icke is a Masonic,and working for a secret government.the responses went out of their way to do just that..i was really scared for their health :) when they were hearing the name David icke (i doubt if another David,'rockefeller' would have caused such a reaction). i found this short video that you were showing here and that silenced things a bit.. "oh,its the first time i hear he has an arthritis.",well i did suggested that they will investigate into him a little further and make their own decisions instead of automatically joining the choir of those who's trying to debunk him.its all about fear.


Bill ryann originally posted:
I sometimes get upset when people confront me with that, too - and all it means is that I've had it up to the eyebrows with people's stupidity.

Being a semi-public figure does not mean that one has to bear all mindless, thoughtless accusations with a smile and a laugh. Sometimes they hurt, at the end of a long day.

yes,it is understandable.actually,it seems there is so much patience and restraint needed from all of you 'mission people' ,that its difficult to not 'take it to the heart' every once in a while.

this is one of the messages David icke put on his websight time and time again:
(an agent disinformator indeed :)

where is the love

"whats wrong with the world mama?
people living like aint got no mamas
i think the whole worlds addicted to the drama
only attracted to the things that bring you trauma

but if you only have love for your own race
then you only leave space to discriminate
and to discriminate only generate hate
and if you hate youre bound to get irate

yeah,madness is what you demonstrate
and thats exactly how anger works and operate
man,you gotta have love just to set it straight
take control of your mind and meditate
let your soul gravitate to the love y'all

people kiling people dying,children hurtin hear them crying
can you practice what you preach
would you turn the other cheek?
father,father,father help us
send some guidnace from above
cause people got me got me questioning
where is the love..."

[Bill Ryan]

Hi,
I am aware that this is off topic, but it is relevant to Bill's post above:
Could someone please direct me to the mp3 link of that interview?

I can't seem to find it anywhere....

Thanks

http://projectavalon.net/David_Icke_May_2010.mp3

All best wishes, Bill

[Icecold]

David Icke looks like he has a black eye in that vid. He doesn't look very well.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WTxb-Oe7s

Even though some comments on Utube are disparaging on this particular vid...

1,573 likes, 58 dislikes - That's a pretty good result.

[Limor Wolf]

Str8thinker,i read your response with interest.i do not believe in trying to persuade anyone to think this or that on any other person.freedom of opinions or thoughts is required for us as a society,we all allowed to have our own impressions,gut feelings,intuitions,logic conclusions etc.but,something is very noticable and sticking out in what you wrote.it seems that you were heavilly leaning against other people's view's on Mr Icke instead of going straight to the 'horses mouth' and hear it from him.it is so damn easy to twist and get out of context someone's message,and that's whats being done a lot to David icke.

this person draws fire to himself,i would say beacuse he is millimeters away from the truth,if not most of the time just hit the nail on the head.
loud voices from outside can be very distracting.Str8thinker,why dont you give the man a proper chance and search his websight(not to say that you didnt do it):
http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/

another recommendation is his specific Big Brother lecture,its absolutly phenomenon:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4799447112501062338#



Str8thinker originally posted:
"One parting thought: If Icke's tale about reptilian shapeshifters came from Arizona Wilder, this alone takes away a lot of its credibility."

its absolutly not based on Arizona wilder's testimonie alone.and he is not the only one talking about it (forget the shapeshifting videos on you tube)
there are others,and its one of those biggest taboo's that you better not talk about if you do not want to be hospitalized somewhere.we live in a world of concealment and conditioning.
since the reptelian issue is so far fetched according to what we were raised to believe,than it might be best to leave it in the "do not know" drawer and stay open minded.
one more thing (not to you personally Str8thinker :),its one thing to doubt or question the messanger and its another to trash him. never seems like a good idea,is it?

[Bill Ryan]

its absolutly not based on Arizona wilder's testimonie alone.and he is not the only one talking about it

This is correct. Some of you reading this may not have heard the dinner-table conversation (captured impromptu with a dictaphone I had in my pocket) between David Icke and Jordan Maxwell exchanging stories about reptilian encounters they had been told by others. This really needs to be heard.

http://projectavalon.net/David_Icke_Jordan_Maxwell_reptilian_stories_Project_Avalon_May_2010.mp3

I was also recently told (second hand) an account from a CIA agent who used to work directly in the White House with George Bush senior.

This man described how he had twice personally seen Bush Snr change into reptilian form, and that he needed human blood transfusions to keep his human form when on television. (When meeting him in person, this was not so necessary as there was a kind of mind control/hypnosis involved which convinced those meeting him that this was a human body.)

This sounds incredible, outlandish, and easily dismissed. But the agent in question was very freaked out and talked to my friend for many hours about this experience, and others.

My friend, in turn, had never heard of the whole reptilian issue... until later.

No proof: but more circumstantial evidence, that (God help us) just might be true.

[Icecold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOnDatqENo

If this was your husband would you cover up his face while he was vomiting? Wouldn't that be a bad thing to do?

[goldmother]

I haven't watched the attached vid yet, but even if David is not legit, what's wrong with his message? His message is most important.

Still watching. Very long video. In my opinion, this video has the fingerprints of the ADL all over it.



Haven't watched vid either I agree the message is the most important thing It is always a good idea to make sure you don't follow someone blindly and question things for yourself, saying that David Icke and his books got me walking the path I am on at present so I will be eternally grateful to him for that

I have also learned a lot by reading his new book thank you David

[galactica]

David is selfless ... makes a change

[Limor Wolf]

Bill ryan originally posted:
"This man described how he had twice personally seen Bush Snr change into reptilian form, and that he needed human blood transfusions to keep his human form when on television. "

i wonder if thats somehow connected to the mutilation cases when animals found dead and blood was drawn from their veins.
http://orioninvestigations.webs.com/cattlemutilations.htm

[Fructedor]

One thing about these channeled sources ('the guys' as Icke calls them) is that they can be very pushy. This explains why he proclaimed himself the Son of God on UK television a while ago, and why he actually believed it.
--sjkted


As far as I know, this was something he said on the infamous Wogan show in 1991. He certainly got thraped for that statement. Icke has since explained that he had realised for the first time that he, like all of us, is of divine essence, and that was what he meant.

In my opinion, in the 20 years since then, he’s done more than enough to reassure the open-minded that he works hard for a good cause, and is sincere in his beliefs. He certainly doesn’t act as though he thought he was Jesus. He’s said himself on numerous occasions that we should not believe anything he says without doing our own research.

I reckon many people regularly access information which is not the result of left-brain analysis and calculation – what’s intuition, for example? We are free to trust it or not. Claiming to be a ‘channel’ for divine messages does sort of set you up for being shot at – but then again, some ‘channeled’ information does seem to bear out. And plenty does not. How do we judge the pertinence of all this? The same way we deal with stuff we hear in a bar – we listen, and we weigh it in our own hearts. I don’t think David Icke, or Jesus for that matter, would argue with that.

Trouble comes when we expect other people to give us ‘The Answer’ to our ‘Questions or Problems.’ Accept and appreciate enlightened guidance, OK. Wait for someone else to do the work for us, less OK. Take what you need and leave the rest. And give something back, one way or another.

Funny how the phrase ‘debunk’ began with the idea of demasking charlatans, but has since become the title on damage control operations used by so many with so much to hide.

I'll watch the Chris White video. Thanks for this thread.

Best wishes

Fructedor

[Orobo]

Hmmm, bovine reptilians? Just a joke...

I would like to share an experience here. In a q&a with a new friend and source (you´ll have to take my word on that he is real..sorry) I asked some questions about reptilians. The atmosphere changed and he refused to say anything anymore about it, other than a "yes" when (in a try to get to understand the silence) I asked if they (rept.) could sense us talking about them. We left it at that.

[baggywrinkle]

This man described how he had twice personally seen Bush Snr change into reptilian form, and that he needed human blood transfusions to keep his human form when on television. (When meeting him in person, this was not so necessary as there was a kind of mind control/hypnosis involved which convinced those meeting him that this was a human body.)

.

I "met" George Herbert Walker Bush during his first unsuccessful bid for the presidency. It was in a fairly intimate lecture ampitheater (as in the movie paper chase) which had a capacity
of perhaps 75-125 people. Three rows back, front and center, about fifteen feet away at about his eye level where I could make direct eye contact with him. What I saw in those eyes
was ice cold. The impression I came away with at the time in spring of 1980 was of a snake looking at a sparrow. He is not a man I would ever bare my throat to.

[Charlie Pecos]

All my life I had wondered how and why someone could rape a small child- until I saw the 2010 David Icke video. David's explanation made perfect sense.

[Odiwan]

since the reptelian issue is so far fetched according to what we were raised to believe,than it might be best to leave it in the "do not know" drawer and stay open minded.

I can't say that I am likely to watch the "David Icke Debunked", I have my own opinions on David and they are mostly good. He has connected the dots like few others, and is pivotal in my, and others, learning about NWO topics. The point I would like to make, is that for both serious researchers, as well as those on the edges, David's take on shapeshifting reptilians is often a bone of contention... for many it stretches things too far. But, as Limor stated earlier, perhaps an open mind is the best methodology for EVERYTHING that we cannot verify ourselves. I believe that is called using your intuition and discretion.

One thing that I have said before, and will say again... I don't care whether David is spot on about the Queen, Bushes, etc growing 2 feet of scaly nastiness or not; anyone doing the rituals that they do to generate masses of negativity is a monster, regardless of whether they shapeshift or not. Perhaps what is being seen is just our psychic impression of these guys inner selves. I think that there are reptilian races out there, but I think that the human elite, no matter what they do to themselves will never really become like their masters ("Charles" mentions that some of the 33 have genetically damaged themselves... maybe the shapeshifting is evidence?)

Point being, many people are quick to crucify their (former) heroes, in Australia we call it the "tall poppy syndrome". David Icke is a tireless researcher, and courageous to say the least. Do we agree with everything he has to say- probably not. Has he got off track occasionally- don't we all? Puppet of the NWO- I very much doubt it!

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

Banshee-

Scapegoating.

What's that saying about assuming things again?

Just sayin'.

Care to print a retraction?

Of course not.

No one ever does.

In the absence of a good idea or evidence, blame the Jews?

Why not? It's east, and nobody ever calls you on it?

Lame.

[majapahit]

If I read all my source material correctly
and to link this to Charles' description of 'his' experience with the 33

it is the Bush Sr. 'faction' that gained the upper hand in the 'classis' 33 group,
post Eisenhower,
mostly by murder, mayhem and conniving

and in a larger picture
this somewhat correlates with a 'phase' in history, a progress in invention,
a technical progress, and a progress into modern arms, computers, the infrastructure of modern banking

and 'black projects', when you dissect that information carefully
though are described as 'thousands of years ahead of public science' BUT

this leap ahead, seems, did not begin much earlier (?) than ~1880-1940, the root era of All present inventions
with Einstein as its (public) wonder boy, and Tesla of course, the real wonder boy of that era

the present day 'confusion',
the infighting within the 33
perhaps, a same 'unfolding of history'

where the European and other 'Old World' (and Eastern) '33' faction(s)
have somewhat caught up with the Bush'/USA faction in 'modern power gaming'
TV, Banking, Wallstreet and crazy off world science

and the latter now 'want their stolen money back'
and specifically 'from the Bush' conglomerate', is what is implied in all the sable rattling

and the Clinton's are tailing has been's
and the Chinese entry on the world stage, rather the 'safe exit in total chaos' for the 33,
and this the 'mexican stand off' that C. describes as presently prevailing

and Obama the CIA's wonder boy of 'new' and 'change'
a creature and creation invented in the think tank laboratories of social engineering

and all (most) ET phenomena, either real or projected (CIA: "a mass hallucination"),

and either dangerous,
or dangerously stupid,
or dangerously lethargic
or stupidly infertile

mt :wave:

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

In fairness, Mr. White's religious beliefs DO NOT have anything to do with his criticism of David Icke. Logically, these are unrelated factoids.

This is just a smear tactic, and frankly, it's a little embarrassing.

I haven't watched this video (probably won't - Icke isn't that interesting to me). But I know Mr. White's critique of the Zeitgeist movie was spot on, even if I didn't agree with his touch of proselytising at the end.

Do try to keep separate issues that are unrelated, shall we?

[Banshee]

Banshee-

Scapegoating.

What's that saying about assuming things again?

Just sayin'.

Care to print a retraction?

Of course not.

No one ever does.

In the absence of a good idea or evidence, blame the Jews?

Why not? It's east, and nobody ever calls you on it?

Lame.

Are you referencing my December 9th post? Do you care to reply with quote? Sounds like you're trying to pick a fight? Why now?

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

I messed up the quote function. Whether I use the "quote function" or not, doesn't matter.

Why? Did I fail to communicate why?

Why NOW? How is that a relevant question?

It's never too late to admit you were wrong and take a thing back.

But I guess that doesn't interest you.

[Banshee]

I messed up the quote function. Whether I use the "quote function" or not, doesn't matter.

Why? Did I fail to communicate why?

Why NOW? How is that a relevant question?

It's never too late to admit you were wrong and take a thing back.

But I guess that doesn't interest you.

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is no secret that the ADL has been targeting Mr. Icke for years.

I have no issues with the Jews. I do have issue with Zionism, as do most when educated on the subject.

You are more than entitled to disagree with anything I have to say, however, I don't have the time or the patience to argue minutia. If it is your intent to drag out old posts and start asking for retractions from everyone here, you are going be one busy little bean.

Have a nice day!

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is no secret that the ADL has been targeting Mr. Icke for years.

I have no issues with the Jews. I do have issue with Zionism, as do most when educated on the subject.

You are more than entitled to disagree with anything I have to say, however, I don't have the time or the patience to argue minutia. If it is your intent to drag out old posts and start asking for retractions from everyone here, you are going be one busy little bean.

Have a nice day!


Of course to YOU it's minutia. That's kind of the point. You don't care.

Loverly!

It's always good to be insulated from the results of your scapegoating. Wouldn't be nearly as much fun otherwise.

[Orobo]

Hey this does not sound good at all.
Either use a quote, so everyone can follow you ( if one cares to, with such a tone) or PM and keep the thread clean from these attitudes, please.

love-O

[Lord Sidious]

I am not a fan of David Icke. That being said, I don't usually agree with anyone 100% and I don't expect too, but the thing I do credit him with is igniting or uncovering that spark in people that changes their way of thinking and they then go out and start to see, rather than just look.
So, if nothing else, he is helping to start people on their own journey and he should be credited for that at least.

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

Hey this does not sound good at all.
Either use a quote, so everyone can follow you ( if one cares to, with such a tone) or PM and keep the thread clean from these attitudes, please.

love-O


You could have PM'd me that.

I'm not interested in your opinion of how I 'sound'.

And the fact you care more about quote functions (how ever did we message boarders survive before the function!) than the point I was making, tells me all I need to know about you.

bye.

[Carmody]

This is correct. Some of you reading this may not have heard the dinner-table conversation (captured impromptu with a dictaphone I had in my pocket) between David Icke and Jordan Maxwell exchanging stories about reptilian encounters they had been told by others. This really needs to be heard.

http://projectavalon.net/David_Icke_Jordan_Maxwell_reptilian_stories_Project_Avalon_May_2010.mp3

I was also recently told (second hand) an account from a CIA agent who used to work directly in the White House with George Bush senior.

This man described how he had twice personally seen Bush Snr change into reptilian form, and that he needed human blood transfusions to keep his human form when on television. (When meeting him in person, this was not so necessary as there was a kind of mind control/hypnosis involved which convinced those meeting him that this was a human body.)

This sounds incredible, outlandish, and easily dismissed. But the agent in question was very freaked out and talked to my friend for many hours about this experience, and others.

My friend, in turn, had never heard of the whole reptilian issue... until later.

No proof: but more circumstantial evidence, that (God help us) just might be true.

And now folks, please read the direct DNA transference data now appearing on this website. (completely disconnected DNA taking on the energies and condition of adjacent DNA, no contact whatsoever.)

A study where a coherent laser light was shone through the egg of a frog onto the egg of a salamander and the salamander egg was born as the same genetically perfect frog that was of the first egg

Add in the idea of consensus reality, and how non-believers attending a 'test' of psychic ability can corrupt the test with the intrusion of their beliefs and desires (damaging the outcome),

Add in the understanding of Lamarckism, the idea that we carry the genetic imprint of our forefathers more directly (you will find information on this forum) than considered possible.

My bits about when in the 'clear state' becoming very sensitive to what I eat (and sensitives in general having this issue), and taking on those vibrations, and living a flash in my mind of the death of the given animal that I'm eating (I just had a strong episode of that the other day), see the monatomic silver thread started by me in the alternative health section, of what happened to me those few days back.

Why cannibals eat the flesh of others, to gain their energies and also their memories, and so on. (A recent article on a reformed cannibal warrior from Africa covers this to some degree),

Th Chinese beating dogs to death before they eat them in order to maximize the chemical transference of fear, so they are energized when they eat the flesh,

Thus the idea of how reptilians who are dimensionally only 'half here', need to consume the DNA of humans in order to maintain the physicality or vibration of our state and be perceived by us as being human. The line just above that, about the dogs in china. Tie it to the line below, this one you are reading....and if that does not make your blood run cold, I don't know what will.

If you add in the understanding that came out of a 'US Naval Academy Of research' (Yes, the united states NAVY) Study about the DNA being superconductive and hyper-dimensional --as in: out of time effects, and out of time and distance communications with one another....well..

Add in the point about superconductors being used in this world for the most sensitive measurements possible as they respond to the most sensitive signals,

Then the idea of alchemy (covered a bit my me on this site) being all about superdeformed atomic structures of the platinum metals group metals, superdeformed (superdeformed electron orbitals) so they span two dimensions and allow for dimensional transference and the human body actually being chock full of them (research the work of David Hudson and others), as they are the true engine of life, this backed up by research now appearing of many many deformed orbital states of H20 (water) alone. Gold atoms being used now in cancer research as it bonds to DNA..so...dang..perfectly.. which alchemists have known and utilized (on record) for at least 5000-6000 years.

Then the supporting works on this done by Joseph P. Farrell on the hyper-dimensional aspects of matter as pursued by the Nazi's in ww2, and how that was integrated into the US space program and black ops underground projects,

Regarding 'fooling the camera' and needing human blood transfusions for that.... but not when viewing in person, I can cover that on a personal level..in that I saw some chemtrail 'dumbbell' sprayers and I was taking photos of the chemtrails when I saw the sprayer. I snapped photos of the sprayer. The photo and the eyeball image DID NOT AGREE with one another. It is the psychic sensitives that are likely a main the target for culling (most to all of us have it to some degree), as they can 'see' through the illusion, to some degree... and have a chance of figuring this stuff out.

And much, MUCH more.....

I could go on in the world of facts and scientific studies almost forever, here. You can't view the bits of data in isolation, they need to be connected into a coherent 'meta study'.

Another point is that the compartmentalization of science was seemingly done to kill the idea of "meta-studies" (aka 'the Renaissance man') and keep people's minds tuned to tiny isolated grindstones. Even Einstein complained of this point. to keep overviews and connected data streams out of man's grasp, so no total pictures of what is really going on could emerge. News, nationalization, compartmentalization, politics, religion, finance systems ---all very very old techniques for controlling people. So old and core function.... that parents do it to their children every day.

If you look at all that, in the proper context....you start to see something taking shape. You see all the data required to make it exist, all the data that can make it all too possible and all too great a potential to be real. The believability factor jumps tremendously, frighteningly so, as all the data indicates that...it can actually exist.

Something that could be very, very, --- ugly.

If this does not convince one of the potential, recall I said: much much more data. This is the tip of the iceberg.

[majapahit]

.. direct DNA transference data now appearing on this website. (completely disconnected DNA taking on the energies and condition of adjacent DNA, no contact whatsoever.)
just heard an interview about this, great stuff


Something that could be very, very, --- ugly.
what we should tell mr. very, very ugly is this

eh, tss

in a calm & assertive manner
to set the boundaries of the pack
& to own the couch
(the dog whisperer), mt :hat:

[RUSirius]

It seems pretty obvious to me that they are trying to Debunk him, to illegitmize him. I'd say minimum 80% of what David Icke says is true, and that which is not true is probably pretty darn close to true but not right on. Definitely read his book, pretty mind blowing material that just fits in with everything most of us know.

[Hawkwind]

Well, the first thing that struck me about this video was that it is very, very well done, which makes me very, very suspicious as to its origin and veracity. This does not strike me as the work of a single individual, as it presents itself to be. That said, I still found it valuable food for thought.

I first ran across David Icke's work almost twelve years ago. At the time my impression was fairly similar to that depicted in this film, ie- that he was a shill actually working for the elites. Having followed his work since that time, however, it has become increasingly difficult to maintain that view. It is a common tactic of the elites to create and thereby control the opposition to their own programs. David has done so much to expose their goings on and has been so instrumental in bringing this information to the public, however, it's extremely difficult to see any possible benefit the elites might be deriving from this. As such, it has become equally difficult to believe that he is acting in accord with their plans.

As with everything in this area of investigation, deception is piled upon deception and the lie is different at every level. So, as always, it's wise to look at the evidence presented by both sides, do your own research and decide for yourself who and what to believe.

[Lord Sidious]

You could have PM'd me that.

I'm not interested in your opinion of how I 'sound'.

And the fact you care more about quote functions (how ever did we message boarders survive before the function!) than the point I was making, tells me all I need to know about you.

bye.

I find your response to be unworthy of the type of discussions on this board.
You pull me up on how I come across AFTER you post this.
Makes you sound double minded, not that you care how you sound, of course.

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

I find your response to be unworthy of the type of discussions on this board.
You pull me up on how I come across AFTER you post this.
Makes you sound double minded, not that you care how you sound, of course.

Why are you injecting yourself into my dispute with another poster?

And who are you to judge what is 'worthy'?

Gimmie a break.

[Lord Sidious]

Why are you injecting yourself into my dispute with another poster?

And who are you to judge what is 'worthy'?

Gimmie a break.

Just putting my opinion up. Much like you have the same right to do.
I notice you can't take people criticising you or your opinion.
Why is that?

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

Just putting my opinion up. Much like you have the same right to do.
I notice you can't take people criticising you or your opinion.
Why is that?


Dude. A person who follows another poster around a forum to interject themselves into other disputes, is known as a troll. You aren't even engaging the topic - just opining on my 'worthiness'.

Why are you now trolling me and expecting a 'nice' response?

Troll here often?

[ThePythonicCow]

If this was your husband would you cover up his face while he was vomiting?
Barbara's covering of George's face is a strange gesture indeed. Nor can it be explained as the act of someone who is acting in irrational panic. Barbara seems quite aware of what she is doing. She is making sure that the room and cameras cannot see George's lower face.

Perhaps it was just an act of discretion, not wanting an image of George vomiting to go public. She would certainly be well aware how a single frame of camera video of such an incident can be quite harmful. So perhaps the gesture is not so strange, given Barbara's decades of experience beside a man in the public eye, and her usual "can do" level headed, cold hearted, spirit.

[Bill Ryan]

Why are you injecting yourself into my dispute with another poster?

And who are you to judge what is 'worthy'?

Gimmie a break.

[Mod Hat On]

Dear Friend, here are two quotes from your own fair hand:


I'm working hard to break my habit of being too mouthy too fast.


Maybe I just got tired of being a reactionary loudmouth somewhere along the way.

Keep on working on yourself. This is a good school. There are some smart people here (self included) who will not allow you to get away with things you could in earlier situations. This place is special - as you have observed.

All best wishes, Bill

[ThePythonicCow]

This cow is enjoying fantasies of Lord Sidious and Transdimensional Bean Pod taking their little discussion somewhere else.

P.S. -- Above written before I saw Bill's more helpful response. Nevermind.

[Transdimensional Bean Pod]

Bill-

Duly noted. I'm well aware of what I posted, and I've exercised considerable restraint. Thanks for throwing those in my face though. Extremely classy.

Don't worry. I'll unsubscribe myself. This place sickens me by now.

[Bill Ryan]

Bill-

Duly noted. I'm well aware of what I posted, and I've exercised considerable restraint. Thanks for throwing those in my face though. Extremely classy.

Don't worry. I'll unsubscribe myself. This place sickens me by now.

Unsubscribed per your request.

[Lord Sidious]

Sorry if I have been a contributor in Bean Pod parting ways.
I didn't appreciate his narky posts at me and Orobo.
I try to remember that text doesn't display all the other things we can pick up on in a face to face and post in a way that what I say is understandable.
That isn't always possible and I realise the same for others.
But there is no mistake when it is blatant like I saw with Bead Pod.

[Celine]

This breaks my heart...so sad..

not what we stand for is it?

[Fred Steeves]

I "met" George Herbert Walker Bush during his first unsuccessful bid for the presidency. It was in a fairly intimate lecture ampitheater (as in the movie paper chase) which had a capacity
of perhaps 75-125 people. Three rows back, front and center, about fifteen feet away at about his eye level where I could make direct eye contact with him. What I saw in those eyes
was ice cold. The impression I came away with at the time in spring of 1980 was of a snake looking at a sparrow. He is not a man I would ever bare my throat to.

That reminds me of Icke's observation of Jimmy Carter's eyes when he by "chance" was seated next to him at a River Dance show.


Cheers,
Fred s.

[Carmody]

I was going to try and find a way to tell you folks what I know, without actually telling you anything. I've been trying to find a way, for months. Nothing big, nothing even remotely conclusive. Just minor and circumstantial.

I'm sitting here hanging on to my foot for the past five minutes, thinking I broke my toe.

I was thrown into a wall (doorframe).

This is not unusual for this territory.

Note my earlier post from about four hours back.

[bashi]

I was going to try and find a way to tell you folks what I know, without actually telling you anything. I've been trying to find a way, for months. Nothing big, nothing even remotely conclusive. Just minor and circumstantial.

I'm sitting here hanging on to my foot for the past five minutes, thinking I broke my toe.

I was thrown into a wall (doorframe).

This is not unusual for this territory.

Note my earlier post from about two hours back.

Hi Carm,
i can understand you.
But if even only one member has understood what you wanted to tell, then, isn't it worth it ?

[MariaDine]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/amc0441l.jpg

Namasté

[Celine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnJVkEX8O4

[MariaDine]

http://www.savagechickens.com/images/chickencomm.jpg

Lately, everybody is getting very upset with each other. I really wish that everybody got along with one another. I really like it here. :)

NAMASTÉ

[Celine]

We do get along better here then ANY other forum... but the reason we do, is because even if we "dont like " someone... or dissagree... we still have eachothers backs and are on the same path

[Hawkwind]

Lately, everybody is getting very upset with each other. I really wish that everybody got along with one another. I really like it here. :)

NAMASTÉ

Given the nature of what this group is and what we're trying to do here, rest assured that at least some of the members are here to be as disruptive as possible. Fortunately, Bill and others do a pretty fair job of keeping tabs on such behavior and controlling it.

[Banshee]

We do get along better here then ANY other forum... but the reason we do, is because even if we "dont like " someone... or dissagree... we still have eachothers backs and are on the same path

and if I might.... "like or dislike" is difficult to assign. We might feel completely differently if were were seated, face to face enjoying one another's company. What I would like to think is that we might dislike a thought or an expression of thought. That said, are we really going to learn anything unless we push the boundaries of our comfort? Will we not grow intellectually and spiritually if we sit in the midst of an uncomfortable thought and attempt to understand its meaning without maligning the poster? Its a challenge, but in my opinion, one worth accepting.

[galactica]

We do get along better here then ANY other forum... but the reason we do, is because even if we "dont like " someone... or dissagree... we still have eachothers backs and are on the same path

love and respect

[ThePythonicCow]

But there is no mistake when it is blatant like I saw with Bead Pod.
Yes, no mistake when it is such.

Our response however is our responsibility. Sometimes it is OK to just smile quietly to oneself in recognition of such irritations.

Fear not the confusion of others over such matters. Responding in kind only fuels the fires.

Indeed, the unspoken smile might just be the best guidance you can provide others.

[Carmody]

When I slammed my foot like that I started laughing. (in between the "ow! ow! ow!" bits) Telling those guys that they need to learn to have a sense of humor.

The deal is that if they are real..then so are you.

And if that is the case, then all bets are off, and the only thing holding you back, is your fears.

This is important to understand, IMO.

The question becomes..was I tossed by mine own guides for being a fool and bringing such things to people? Or was I tossed for looking at it too closely?

As I type this, my power keeps trying to go out. (fluctuating AC causing my line conditioner to kick in and out.)

Keep your head clear.

[Fred Steeves]

and if I might.... "like or dislike" is difficult to assign. We might feel completely differently if were were seated, face to face enjoying one another's company. What I would like to think is that we might dislike a thought or an expression of thought. That said, are we really going to learn anything unless we push the boundaries of our comfort? Will we not grow intellectually and spiritually if we sit in the midst of an uncomfortable thought and attempt to understand its meaning without maligning the poster? Its a challenge, but in my opinion, one worth accepting.


Right on Banshee! I know I'm not alone here in being one who just LOVES to push the boundries of comfort, (my own included)although mutual respect is absolutely all important.

David Icke certainly challenged my comfort zone, and I ignorantly detested him for it. Until he suddenly became instrumental in my awakening. Now I've devoured 5 of his books, along with being exposed to places like this as a result. Go figure.

Strange days have truly found us.


Cheers,
Fred S.

[mondaze]

i enjoy david icke's methodology and his stamina, he's presentations last 6 hours or more! this is not the behaviour of a 'shill'. i dont see why threads have to descend into name calling and eye scratching bitchiness. its banal and so the last paradigm! if you disagree with a post say so and say why. it's really that simple.

[Carmody]

I'm not going to bother to put too much weight into the episode. :)

[NinjaPhil]

I think there are things that Icke is right about, and things maybe not so much. It doesn't matter to me hugely so long as I'm learning and developing in the process it's all cool.

To me, this is a case of the journey being more important than the story.

[johnf]

This hate has to come from a third party, the illuminati perverts the bible to make you think that religion is equal with Jesus so that you will reject Him.

Thanks Bill, that phrase backs up a feeling I have had most of my life about religion and what it has served to cover up. I have recently experienced some religious arguments with a friend of mind and am striving to learn from that experience.

What I have learned so fr is that there is a similarity between those on both sides of a fight allways. I want others to experience what i have experienced and get caught up in the angst over
This and instead of seeing these people as being hateful or "Bad" I do better when I see them as under the same stress as I.
I don't think any of the material about psychic manipulation can be proven at this time. I have been carried away with the whole bloodlines/ Reptilian control thing long before I heard of David Icke. And I first heard about the whole moon being a big monitoring mechanism back in the early 90's.
The guy who told me about it said, and I've figured out how to fix it, nukes, we just fire nukes at it and blow it up!
So a lot of this info is assosciated with a large amount of craziness, and more importantly impracticality.
I am not in the position to buy David's book right now but I would really be interested in disscusions on how these manipulations can be healed.
I am rather weary of listening to people who attack the messenger rather than people who are looking for real solutions.
John

[joamarks]

People need to wake up again. There is a deception within the deception. It's one thing to know that there is an Illuminati/NWO, which many people know about now. The next deception is that they are being manipulated by external sources, and that they are extremely widespread and are an even bigger threat to humanity.

indeed like the film inception there are a lot of layers of realities to this matter,

if you choose the path to wisdom by gathering knowledge, you have to be aware that there is not such a thing as "the one truth". (especially when knowledge is being channelled im very suspicious)

i like this 'debunk video' because it will show you, not so much if david is right or wrong, (which is a time wasting discussion anyway) but that he uses a very dangerous set of tools to tell his story.
the same tools which are used by different new age groups through history.
tools for example, like using channelling, giving people hope for new worlds, rewriting history, making assumptions based on highly questionable sources, ect

if you leave david's message aside and just look at his form in which he tells the his story, you see the master at work. he knows how the media works. he knows how to use this.

thats oke if you show his material to a sellect group of intelligent people who can digest the information and just take out what's feels significant for their reality.

its different when one becomes a big hero. it changes a man. even the ones without a ego. at least for the ever growing group of listeners.

time will tell eventually if he is up to the job or not. (bill, i'm thinking joseph campbell here also)

just for the record, i believe in the good intentions of david icke. and he did a amazing job!

[Lord Sidious]

Yes, no mistake when it is such.

Our response however is our responsibility. Sometimes it is OK to just smile quietly to oneself in recognition of such irritations.

Fear not the confusion of others over such matters. Responding in kind only fuels the fires.

Indeed, the unspoken smile might just be the best guidance you can provide others.

Even though my abilities/powers are growing, that is one area I struggle with.
I did 6 years in the army and I am trying to overcome the conditioning.
Plus, I have been fighting government for just under 20 years, so counter attack is second nature.
I try hard to not rise to the bait, I don't always succeed though.

[Banshee]

I'm not going to bother to put too much weight into the episode. :)

;) That was funny!

[Calz]

A bit of levity from Icke's site ... have to be able to laugh or what is the purpose?

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/44250-lesson-number-one-if-you-post-a-picture-on-e-bay-to-sell-a-table-wear-some-clothes-when-you-take-the-snap-and-stay-clear-of-the-mirror

[HeatherJJAnderson]

The only reason I am here today is because of David Icke, otherwise I would be still be researching and practicing new Osseointergration techniques.

[str8thinker]

Well, I'm amazed that my earlier post (#58 in this thread) provoked a further four pages of replies and comments by the time I returned, also saddened that TBP chose to unsubscribe along the way.

Nevertheless, this has brought considerable new material into the open, not the least from Bill Ryan (thanks again, Bill). As a result of reading your comments I thought I'd check back on the reliability of Ivan Fraser.

As a result of Bill Ryan's reply I now think it unlikely that Icke is a Mason, and that the allegations made about him by Alan Watt in my earlier post were unfounded. Moreover, Wikipedia's page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_icke) on David Icke makes no mention of his father being one either. I did not think to read this before posting, but it is certainly worth a visit.

However, I do not resile from my earlier position that David Icke has been insincere, based on the following observations:

1) He has shown a propensity for plagiarism, incorporating material from the works of others without crediting them.


(Laura, moderator) Looking at Icke's bibliography, I'm not impressed. He really hasn't done any work of his own.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1242.0


Well, the first conspiracy book I read was They Cast No Shadows, by Desborough. Pretty much everything in that book is duplicated in The Biggest Secret,by Icke. Desborough doesn't really seem to believe in the reptilian thing. His stuff is more believable, but not as well sourced. He says he relies on 30+ years experience.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread54375


It was Brian Desborough, a scientist and researcher who had worked for several aerospace companies, who was also looking at the draft copy of the Biggest Secret at the same time as myself; i.e. before David met Arizona Wilder. Therefore the fact that Brian Desborough may be responsible for fundamentally leading the direction of David’s research, if not planting much of the basis of the book in David’s mind, is obvious. (Ivan Fraser, http://www.coffinman.co.uk/david_icke.htm)


David's had some good ideas in his time, I agree. But he remains essentially a guy who collates the material of others, and therefore he's only as good as his sources. So I read the sources and make up my own mind. Icke therefore, is obsolete for me, except as a factor of focus for so many people interested in this material.

He is certainly dynamic and a great presenter. He gets people hooked. But he's still a fallible guy with biases and opinions, and prone to error just as we all are.

It's easier to read Icke's latest book than the numerous books on numerous subjects that comprise the bibliography. And it's up to the reader to decide whether or not they believe. I personally take his ideas with a pinch of salt, and if he makes me interested, I will then go and find out from the material that made him interested, just why. But usually, when he comes up with something original, I come away disappointed thinking 'how did he conclude what he did from this source material?' When he reports facts and figures, I usually find they are just repeated directly from the source material, sometimes in a way that is close to plagiarism.

...Why go to the monkey when you can go to the organ grinder for the information?
Ivan Fraser
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59474

2) He pretends to speak with authority on subjects he knows little about, something L. Ron Hubbard perfected. Worse, I have not known him to admit he was wrong or apologize for modifying his views.


Why then does he preach that we should be open-minded, listen to each other - and worst of all why is he consistently described as a scholar when he is clearly a rank amateur at various topics he chooses to include in his work?

He is locked in a fantastical belief system. But he is very good at making it sound reasonable. But that's more to do with his style and the ommission of essential data, which makes it impossible for the reader to make an informed choice. They are left with either believing him or not. Unless, that is, they take a few years out and study the material that Icke spends next to no time studying (one or 2 books per topic is NOT research - it is just finding the minimum that satisfies what he already believes).

You cannot create a book every year or two of 500 plus pages on the sheer scope he tries to. You haven't the time to verse yourself in the necessesary data and check out all the references. But you can collate 20 or so books on diverse subjects, not bother checking anything and write them up in your own words, whilst adding your own speculations as a common thread.

...

He also needs to confess that he's an utter amateur in quantum physics and that scientists would NOT support his claims that he makes in his latest book about the nature of reality and consciousness in relation to quantum physics.

The very idea - now so popular and quoted by so many who simply have no knowledge outside of Icke, works of Intel propagandists and New Age channellers - that an ancient ET race settled, created a secret order of reptilian shapeshifting kings and queens, is utterly unsupported by anything other than speculation and invention, and misreading of source information.

Secondly, the idea that this possibility is supported by modern science is also just plain wrong. He has taken early speculation by a few quantum theorists and spun it into 'proof' as though such observations equal scientific proof. (Ivan Fraser)
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message196120/pg1


2) He has banned many who have criticized him on his forum, not just Ivan Fraser.


However I am devastated at what is happening in this forum, it has now become unacceptable to criticize anything David Icke says, and people are having their threads deleted just for having the audacity to speak a word against him.
He is not a perfect man, nobody is, and I feel that if we want freedom of speech ourselves, that we should allow others to say how they feel even if it is in direct opposition to our thoughts and feelings.
An Interesting Post From The David Icke Forum...Now Deleted (http://sodlikeproductions.motion-forum.net/t679-an-interesting-post-from-the-david-icke-forumnow-deleted)

3) Questions about his disposal of funds have not been answered satisfactorily, to put it mildly.


I have had several threads shut down myself regarding the "DAVID ICKE LEGAL DEFENSE FUND" which despite several communications with forum moderators, I am still highly suspect of. We were told we would hear the full story one day, and so far have been told nothing.
I personally donated over £100 to this cause, and I feel that I, as well as everybody else who donated to the fund, deserve a full explanation of what happened.

More details here (http://sodlikeproductions.motion-forum.net/t679-an-interesting-post-from-the-david-icke-forumnow-deleted).

4) There seem to be deliberate omissions in his material which raise the possibility that he is in fact a disinfo agent.


Laura wrote: David Icke has done more damage to the possibility of any real scientific exploration of the subject of UFOs and aliens being undertaken than any other single living human being. If he can't see that, then he is stupid (not ignorant, certainly). And because I don't think he is stupid, I think he is also aware of what he has done PR wise. Thus, he must be a CONSCIOUS agent of COINTELPRO.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1242.0


As for shapeshifting reptilians, I've listened to the plausible but secondhand accounts in Bill's audio tape more than once. This is probably the biggest stumbling-block for most people in accepting David Icke's theories. As a younger Alex Jones expressed it indelicately some years ago, Icke's shapeshifting reptilians stand out from his other revelations "like a turd in a punch bowl".


hjG-ZA9L-L0

However, that did not deter David from later accepting Alex's invitation to appear on his show, not once but twice. Bill Ryan has now propped these tales with one of his own, which is most interesting. Personally, I have no difficulty in getting my mind around extradimensional shape-shifting reptiles emerging from wardrobes just as in C.S.Lewis's Narnia chronicles. In fact, they add a certain frisson to the humdrum truthseeking scene. I will certainly be looking at our PM Julia Gillard in a new light.

Bear in mind, though, that neither Philip Schneider nor "Colonel X" in Anthony Sanchez's UFO Highway mention the presence of reptilians at Dulce, as opposed to tall greys, which seems strange.


Mutwa elsewhere, rather contradictorily, states elsewhere that ‘greys’ are actually reptilians with an artificial ‘skin’. This contradiction is not challenged by Icke. (Ivan Fraser (http://www.coffinman.co.uk/david_icke.htm))

Furthermore, three out of the five reptilian anecdotes on Bill's tape came from Russell Pine (aka Jordan Maxwell), not a scrupulously honest source of information as we all know. (His last story about running away did not actually mention reptilians). That leaves two from David Icke, the Burnham Beeches story and the one of the woman and her reptilian lover, right out of Vigelands Park:


http://www.nyhetsspeilet.no/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Reptile-woman.jpg

Well, maybe it's time for colluding abductee analysts like Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs to retire from the truth scene to allow a new generation of reptile/repton/reptoid hunters to gather better evidence than simply secondhand anecdotes. Can PA members relate any first hand ones?

After reading several more quotes from Ivan Fraser (worth reading in full - see links above), his integrity in my view has increased, rather than diminished. Unfortunately, he has retired from the scene due to ill health and closed his website:


After several years of illness and other changes in personal circumstances, I have decided to end the Truth Campaign both as a magazine and website. My illness allowed me plenty of time to re-evaluate my life and my priorities and it is now time to put my energies into other things. I am now almost fully recovered and, primarily, my focus is to return to work and concentrate on my home life.
http://www.ivanfraser.com/

Lastly:

Like David Icke and Michael Tsarion, Jordan Maxwell claims to have been guided by other dimensional spirits to do the things he is doing. They all claim to have had specific paranormal experiences dealing with these entities early on that led them to the "truth". Maybe that's why he is such a lover of occult practice and rituals.. that's funny though, because I know of a group that's trying to kill most of the world's population that loves that stuff too.

I find it interesting that they have zero opposition, and a guy like Bill Cooper was killed and while people like Fritz Springmeier are locked away for life while the people who say the exact opposite are paraded around on Coast to Coast, the Discovery Channel, the History Channel, the Scifi network, Rense, Project Camelot and the rest.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=62576830876&topic=12910

[modwiz]

Being a garden variety Blue Lodge 3rd degree mason means you are usually a benevolent presence in your community and have dinners and fundraisers. What goes on in the upper echelons, who knows.

The masons I know would probably be like newbies (or special education) on this site. My realtor is one, my last 2 lawyers and someone at the dump. Good guys.

Esotericists maybe, if the spirits you are talking about come in a bottle.

[majapahit]

"Chris White's: David Icke Debunked (Full Movie)", debunked :rain:

ok, I've watched/listened to the 2.5 hours of rant
I'll fill you in with an abbreviated version (indeed, oops)

key words:
Alice Bailey - Blavatsky Theosophy Ideologist & could be considered luciferian, and major source of all of Icke's Utopia
Maurice Strong - UN asset and luciferian, major Illuminati, and - oops - also a Bailey Theosophist, like all (?) illuminati
Atlantis / Lumeria - cannot be proven scientifically, in core of Icke's belief system, and is freemasonry and theosophist
Thule society - another Helena Petrovna Blavatsky / Bailey common ideology, and - of course - suspect
Hitler - oops, another Bailey adapt, who needs enemies
Channeling, that David does, specifically spiritual entities, f.i. 'magnu' and many more - suspect, as been warned by many, you will be deceived
Utopia - an ideal government of the earth, cornerstone of Bailey / Freemasons / Icke (?), and of course the New World Order
a New Race, Led by Philosopher Kings - as in Utopia, freemasonry, again Bailey, also Icke (by deduction) .. dangerous
Ayahuasca drug experience by Icke - again, you open yourself up to 'misleading demons' like a Ouija board, well documented hazard
Illuminati 'spirits' and Icke's 'New Age' sprits could be the same - that wouldn't be good, would it now
Desborough - expert in deprogramming trauma based MKUltra and Illuminati Agenda, might have 'placed' Arizona Wilder (?)
Ivan Fraser - Icke's help and later 'debunker', Icke 'cheats' like a Baba
Arizona Wilder - MKUltra and 'corroborating' source for 'reptilian shape shifting'
Zeitgeist's 'Abstract Jesus' - as an amalgam of previous and many gods, Jesus 'didn't really live' says the older Icke, bad boy

and there is much much (much) more in this 2.5 hour monologue,
which indeed, as a previous poster mentioned, delivers a - seemingly - monumental peace of work, a deconstruction & burning down to the very ashes of - almost - the whole core belief system of dearest David.

There's a little problem though .. oopsie

Chris White himself is a 'Jesus Boy' (like in 'fundamental').
And hides this for 2 hours and 29 minutes,
with rather overwhelming pseudo academic discourse
very clever indeed, and with major talent
unless, of course, one encounters someone like me
the better educated and versed in such rethorica (and a lot older, which is key :juggle:)

White finally quotes the Bible, to impress on his public, the (his) only true path to truth and evolution ..
Mathew 11:20:
"Take my yoke upon you .. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light",

which is, of course, in it's very substance, word for word as it were, & to duplicate White's own way of 'deconstruction' (aha) Not True in its own very substance.

Jesus burden is Hard,
of course.
Jesus is superman.
A servant to serve (.. or else, you bloody heathen).

And White finally wants us to pray for Icke's somewhat good intending soul

.. yeah right, mt

[GK76]

This video has touched me in ways no other video has before... Never before have I suffered through over two hours of dismal whiny dross specially packaged as a video. Honestly, if I ever want a self induced coma I'll know where to go.

It takes a 'special' kind of person to do Chris White's job. The strangest part is, this has been published without any attempt of putting the questions to David to defend himself... Like I said it takes a 'special' kind of person.

To take some points and disprove them, or add a new way of looking at it does not mean the person is a liar and was out to spread disinfo. Yet somehow the very title is "David Icke Debunked", does this mean: to disprove one thing in his work is to discredit everything in his life? After all it is David the human being who has apparently been "debunked", not his work. Or is this title a blatant slur on his character? (as intended no doubt)

I've seen David's work, not once has he given 100% guarantee on his information, as always the life's work of any individual would no doubt evolve over time as thinking progresses and new information comes to hand - he provides the information to intelligent people to discern, he doesn't force information on people.

Sadly for Mr White: his 'total-war' defamatory efforts have come to naught (in/on) my opinion. As described by someone earlier - David's work, bravely outing the paedophile rings and general abuse of the people's God given rights, this, to me speaks volumes about his character. The only person who's colours have been fully shown here is clear to me. And I want my 2 hours of life back scumbag... I'm off for a shower, this video makes me feel unclean.

Yes, I know I could throw this post through the same thought processes, but in defending my cause is noble.

[John White]

As far as I know, Chris is not a close relative :P

Now then, our Dave... "plagiarism".... has he ever claimed originality? How can you plagiarize when there is a big list of sources in every book? He's a "journalist" not a genius.... channelling... yep, first book was all channelling.... now he says channelling is dodgy at best.... and new age religion/old age religion = "same bollocks"... so after 1994 Icke went experiential. Ivan Fraser.... nice man, I've spoken to him. He retracted his comments about Icke as he recognised his own ego at work in them... they still circulate the net all the time though.... blavatsky stuff.... knowledge is neutral... I don't consider it a major influence on Icke's stuff, sooner or later people have to realise the elite have got their fingerprints on everything, including what can help us. The conspiracy world reaction to The Venus Project (the potential of properly applied science) is another example of that... and so on

Bottom line: teachers are THREATS... anyone shaking someone's world about is a threat to that world.... some people react against it. Some people go with the teacher for a while and then see things differently.... they then react against the teacher because they see them as "holding them back". And some people move on but appreciate the teacher for what they have given... because they truly got the lesson

But the better the Teacher, the more stuff they get thrown at them.... Icke's doing alright. He's bloody minded, stubborn, takes frequent leaps into territory only maniacs would dare to tread, and sometimes lets his anger and frustration at certain things (coming from well defined ethical disgust) come on too strong for some

As he might say "Oh well darlin that's life"

And despite all that he keeps on smiling

One of the heros

[joamarks]

ah i like something to ad to this as well,

to what is right or wrong in this context.....

internet as a free anarchistic flow of true usefull information for the common people has died a few years ago.

it has died under servere weight of its own fastness of true and untrue material.

and now its only for the small group of people who are very well informed in the old fashioned way to make up what is relevant.

the rest of the people is at the mercy of the commerce powers which has completely taken over already. just like radio, tv en the movie business.

[John White]

I'd agree with your thoughts in one way joamarks... when I started out on my path the problem was information starvation.... 25 years later, its information overload... in some ways that lean diet helped me to find the space to develop rigorous truth-seeking technique... now there is so much to look at even focusing on one thing leads in a hundred different ways

We are adaptable creatures though, and I feel that focusing on centring oneself is emerging as a response to the info load... as for what is true... well that gets better as soon as we relax and discover that truth is a perception in the now, not an absolute in eternity.... mostly :P

[joamarks]

. in some ways that lean diet helped me to find the space to develop rigorous truth-seeking technique... now there is so much to look at even focusing on one thing leads in a hundred different ways

:)

your right. and that's the problem with this chris which made the debunk videos. the only thing he proves with his films, is that information interpreting via internet, is not for armatures :)

because all his counter arguments he finds on internet as well..... (or he uses book quotes but takes them also out of context. like his subjets)

[John White]

:)

your right. and that's the problem with this chris which made the debunk videos. the only thing he proves with his films, is that information interpreting via internet, is not for armatures :)

because all his counter arguments he finds on internet as well..... (or he uses book quotes but takes them also out of context. like his subjets)

Yep same old hitting out at the mirror... sees sloppy bits in Icke and Tsarion etc and hits out at them to avoid dealing with his own

[str8thinker]

(John White) Ivan Fraser.... nice man, I've spoken to him. He retracted his comments about Icke as he recognised his own ego at work in them

I find that quite surprising; however, you say you've spoken to him. Do you know whether he retracted his comments in print anywhere?

I say that I find it quite surprising because whenever I read one of Icke's books or sit through one of his long-winded videos, I find myself thinking exactly what Ivan Fraser expressed in my earlier posts.

[John White]

I find that quite surprising; however, you say you've spoken to him. Do you know whether he retracted his comments in print anywhere?

I say that I find it quite surprising because whenever I read one of Icke's books or sit through one of his long-winded videos, I find myself thinking exactly what Ivan Fraser expressed in my earlier posts.

He posted his retraction on the old David Icke forum about 2005/06... long gone now as far as I know, the current forum started 2007. It was partly a response to an internet character calling himself "King of the Mountain" conducting a full on hate campaign on that forum against Icke and using Ivan's words to do so... Ivan then got savagely attacked himself as a result, but I thought it showed his courage and character. He really is a lovely man. I do still have Ivan's email which I would be happy to pm to you if you would like to talk to him about it yourself. Let me know

PS If you do, show him this post I'm sure he will remember me

[the_flyingboy]

sorry guys i haven't met David Icke but if Bill trusts him and suppports him so do I !!!

[Bill Ryan]

Well, I'm amazed that my earlier post (#58 in this thread) provoked a further four pages of replies and comments by the time I returned, also saddened that TBP chose to unsubscribe along the way.

Nevertheless, this has brought considerable new material into the open, not the least from Bill Ryan (thanks again, Bill). As a result of reading your comments I thought I'd check back on the reliability of Ivan Fraser.

As a result of Bill Ryan's reply I now think it unlikely that Icke is a Mason, and that the allegations made about him by Alan Watt in my earlier post were unfounded. Moreover, Wikipedia's page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_icke) on David Icke makes no mention of his father being one either. I did not think to read this before posting, but it is certainly worth a visit.

However, I do not resile from my earlier position that David Icke has been insincere, based on the following observations:

1) He has shown a propensity for plagiarism, incorporating material from the works of others without crediting them.

(Laura, moderator) Looking at Icke's bibliography, I'm not impressed. He really hasn't done any work of his own.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1242.0

[snip...]


Dear Friend -

You know I have a great respect for your contributions, and am delighted you're part of this community.

But you're citing criticisms of David Icke from notorious wizard-hunter (never a witch-hunter!) Laura Knight-Jadzyck??

She is not a reliable or straight-thinking investigator... she still believes I'm somehow working for the government, and in league with ATS.

[Lord Sidious]

She is not a reliable or straight-thinking investigator... she still believes I'm somehow working for the government, and in league with ATS.

So you aren't the messiah, you're just a very naughty boy then?

[str8thinker]

(Bill Ryan)
You know I have a great respect for your contributions, and am delighted you're part of this community.

But you're citing criticisms of David Icke from notorious wizard-hunter (never a witch-hunter!) Laura Knight-Jadzyck??

She is not a reliable or straight-thinking investigator... she still believes I'm somehow working for the government, and in league with ATS.

Well, maybe that wasn't the best person to quote from. But if you recall my earlier post, Ivan Fraser (and others) also said David Icke comes close to plagiarism. His latest effort, Human Race Get Off Your Knees, like his previous ones, aren't really works of great scholarship. There is a skimpy bibliography at the end, but what makes me uneasy on reading him is his habit of passing off assertions, particularly the assertions of others, as fact. Of course, he's not the only one, particularly in this field. His arguments are emotional and persuasive, in fact he appears to believe most of what he says, which would be fine if he didn't keep changing his plot.

He now seems to be becoming aware of these inconsistencies and in his latest book is going through a phase of damage control, reconciling the various views he has expressed over the years and at the same time incorporating any fresh theories that come his way which agree with his basic principles.

Maybe the best way I can sum this up is that David Icke considers himself to be sincere when he speaks. (Jordan Maxwell and many others do this too.) It's important to avoid believing them implicitly when they do so.

I feel I've laboured the point enough. I agree David has a lot to offer us, but I will continue to hold him and his ideas at arm's length, not because of any difficulty in accepting his reptilian hypothesis, but because of my innate inability to take huge leaps of faith.

[noprophet]

I haven't looked through much David Icke with he exception of a few videos but some of the discussion reminds me of the late 1800s and everyone calling a lot of the theosophical / spiritual material plagiarism.

The heavy hitters back then would be quick to point out that every concept uttered has in fact been uttered many, many times over and over throughout history. Plagiarism is only labeled when they're uttered within the same time frame.

People need to let go of the severe dependence on "intellectual property". We've all stood on the shoulders of giants. Even the giants.

Open-Source everything for a better world.

[sygh]

Dearest Bill, etal,

The Lord, through Jesus Christ is my savoir; none shall pass. And Bill, I am amazed. Put on your armor.

[hood2011]

I have just started reading David Ickes book 'Human Race Get Off Your Knees' and am still to watch this video in full. I think im going to finish the book first though.

[Mister_m]

I think this picture below demonstrates why conventional religious logic always fails in a proper reasoned debate.

Plus its far too funny to not post. If you are offended, ask yourself why, then accept my apology.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/bspcn.com/SMgCW-YK0sI/AAAAAAAAC90/yO8bgvZj7ok/s800/2843905157_3abe047f44.jpg

[Circe]

------
I do not think that David Icke knows that he is being used as a tool for the new world order, I would like to think that he would turn from his ways if he could be convinced of it. I want to ask you to help me pray for Mr Icke.
[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

If David Icke is a "tool" for the New World Order then I am first in line to join David's New World Order. David speaks from the heart and from the depths of his soul, any one who has ever spoken to David knows he is genuine bloke.

[sjkted]

------
I do not think that David Icke knows that he is being used as a tool for the new world order, I would like to think that he would turn from his ways if he could be convinced of it. I want to ask you to help me pray for Mr Icke.
[/INDENT][/INDENT][/INDENT]

If David Icke is a "tool" for the New World Order then I am first in line to join David's New World Order. David speaks from the heart and from the depths of his soul, any one who has ever spoken to David knows he is genuine bloke.

Have you ever read the Brave New World or are you familiar with any of Aldous Huxley's works?

--sjkted

[Arrowwind]

I watched most of the movie, perhaps failed for the last 20 minutes or so.

It was quite interesting to me as Alice Baily and her works were my first into into the metaphysical and I studdied them for a number of years... but please do not ask me details as it was a long time ago. The representation of her work in the movie was pretty accurate I think as memory recalls.

I thought the narrator was quite clear and made some good points.. I would like to hear an Icke rebuttal detailing with the same clarity each specific issue addressed.

To me, if Icke was truly channeling there is no contradiciton that who he was channeling could have been someone out of the Bailey lineage of masters... Why must we assume that Icke copied her work? Perhaps what he received was from the same source.

That Hitler followed Blavatsky is no big deal to me. He was into spiritualism and she was the leader of the day.. so what. That in no way means that she supported the endeavors of Hitler and I have never heard that she did. Correct me if there is something to know about this.

One clear error I did see in the debunking that made me feel the narrators intent was to manipulate information is when he showed the drawing of the logo for the Bailey work that had a swasticka located central and top on the design... then the goof ball went on to say that Hilter adopted the swasticka from this source..

Well, he did not. The swastika that Hitler used is not the same sidual that Bailey used. Bailey used an ancient Tibetan symbol, Navajo as well. Hitler reversed the symbol.... made the rotation in the oposite direction, a clear indication that he was not on board with Bailey or Blatvasky. This symbol in reverse signifies destruction, it a the symbol in the feminine and should not be used by anyone... no one has the command or power to handle it. It is like the explosion and death fires of Mother Kali made manefest... and of course this is exactly what Hitler created right up to the demise of his military and nation building schemes to his own death.... not to mention millions of others.

So the narrator was immensely ill informed or was determined to mislead us. I would say be he intended to mislead... you cant go that far into the work and not know the meaning of the reversed swastika... and I think this narrator was quite well informed on a number of levels

and did he not allude to being a follower of Icke at one time? did I get that right or not?

Being that he is a fundamental christian he looses all credit for being objective. Christians have had it out for Bailey for a very long time.

one thing the narrator did talk about that I found interesting had to do with demons and demon posession. I have had first hand experience with this as a demon tried to take me over two times in one night.. I am not Christian nor was I at the time but the way I cast it out was to see a blazing white cross of light in my body.. that blasted the demon out the door and it did not return. Since then I have felt that no demon could ever take me. The narrator went on to say that no other entitiy or master has been known to be ablet o cast out demons. I don't know if that is true or not all I know is that my being called upon a universal symbol empowered by the image and thought form projects of billions of christiand over 2 000 years., I would not eve say that I called up it, but rather that it came into me.. it worked.

I personally do not trust the Bailey work myself as I do not see that it has reflected a high state of consciousness into the work of the United Nations. .. and though the United Nations I came to seriously doubt the intent of Bailey. They feel that they can bypass individual liberties and local jurisdiction and somehow this repression is good for the "all".
And I do not trust agenda 21.

Are these masters working for our highest good yet determined to ignore our personal evolutions though sacrifice, depopulation and world culling of humanity? If so I do not think I want them for my salvation... I find my own on my own.

I am not fully against the concept of a one world governement but we have yet to arrive at the day where sufficient numbers of people who are in control have suffient levels of consciousness and and love and being sufficiently devoid of greed and power mongering... until that day that we have acheived such a level of consciousness I will fight against the NWO.

The Bailey material was written for a humanity that is not yet here and Icke I think sees that... he contradicts the work continually yet praises much of what it teaches...it is an enigma to me

[Lord Sidious]

Arrowwind, that isn't what the swastika used by the NSDAP is.
For one thing, you might want to research the colours red, white and black.
Then, find out what a fylfot, swastika, hakenkreuz and a kolovrat is.

[Arrowwind]

If you look at the swastika associated with Bailey you will see that it has a clockwise rotation. Hilter used a counter clockwise rotation. It was implied in the movie that Hitler usesd a swastika based on the Bailey logo. It is not the same design being counter clockwise. I have been told that the Tibetian swastika if reversed is a dangerous symbol, capable of unleashing incredible forces. I have assumed that it is a Tibetian symbol because all the Bailey teachings come from a Tibetian master. What ever the case may be they are not the same symbols and I felt the narrator implied that they were the same one derived from the influence of the other which was not a credible association to me

[Lord Sidious]

It isn't a Tibetan symbol. They use it, so do the hindus, but they did not originate it, so the Tibetan meaning isn't relevant for the NSDAP.
That is why I suggested that you go find out what those other names for the same thing mean.

[Arrowwind]

I did but you are still missing the point. The narrator insinuated pretty seriously that he took the swastika from the bailey material and it is in this that I have an issue with as they are not the same swastikas as he would have liked you to think

I dont give a flip what swastika hitler used, only in that it is not the same swastika that Bailey used. I am concerened about he false representation of material by the narrator.

[Arrowwind]

and if his intent was to use the Bailey swastika but in reverse I have already posted what that means, and in that move he was exceedingly stupid.

[Rainbow44]

What's the point of putting the movie up?

Seriously at this point most people here know who David Icke is and I think that he is a main influence on waking up a lot of people.
As a quote from Martha Graham states, "You are unique and if that is not fulfilled then something has been lost."

David Icke fulfills his sense of his beliefs and ideals and the fact that he is still here in the forefront of our times becoming a major target says so much!

Bill, Kerry, David.........they are all walking their talk. You just have to decide if you want to listen.

Blessings,

Rainbow

[K626]

A lot of these guys like Icke get their stuff from very similar original sources, they don't sit down one day and dream it up.

A lot of the original material of Blavatsky, Huxley, Jung, Wells, Bailey, Nietzche, Plato and so on are the starting point of many if not all the 'New Age Gurus'. After all what is New Age Philosophy but Hindu and Tibetan mysticism repackaged.

cheers

K

[Lord Sidious]

I did but you are still missing the point. The narrator insinuated pretty seriously that he took the swastika from the bailey material and it is in this that I have an issue with as they are not the same swastikas as he would have liked you to think

I dont give a flip what swastika hitler used, only in that it is not the same swastika that Bailey used. I am concerened about he false representation of material by the narrator.

Ok, keep your hair on, I was attempting to help.
You were right in what you say, the writers of that show were wrong, I was attempting to show you and maybe others what the actual ideas were.

[sjkted]

What's the point of putting the movie up?

Seriously at this point most people here know who David Icke is and I think that he is a main influence on waking up a lot of people.
As a quote from Martha Graham states, "You are unique and if that is not fulfilled then something has been lost."

David Icke fulfills his sense of his beliefs and ideals and the fact that he is still here in the forefront of our times becoming a major target says so much!

Bill, Kerry, David.........they are all walking their talk. You just have to decide if you want to listen.

Blessings,

Rainbow

Well, if your message keeps changing throughout the years and you never clarify what your current beliefs are, how could anyone determine whether you are walking your talk or even what you are talking about?

--sjkted

[Rainbow44]

What's the point of putting the movie up?

Seriously at this point most people here know who David Icke is and I think that he is a main influence on waking up a lot of people.
As a quote from Martha Graham states, "You are unique and if that is not fulfilled then something has been lost."

David Icke fulfills his sense of his beliefs and ideals and the fact that he is still here in the forefront of our times becoming a major target says so much!

Bill, Kerry, David.........they are all walking their talk. You just have to decide if you want to listen.

Blessings,

Rainbow

Well, if your message keeps changing throughout the years and you never clarify what your current beliefs are, how could anyone determine whether you are walking your talk or even what you are talking about?

--sjkted

Isn't that life........life is about change.
Who is it that hasn't clarified themselves??
Most of us as we understand information tend to change it according to life lessons. Just because someone gets older through life doesn't mean they don't have the same passion and intensity for what they are saying....they may have betters ways of saying what they mean and gettng it out to the masses.

Not many people are willing to be up front and targets because it's safer sit back from the sidelines and observe.

[sjkted]

Isn't that life........life is about change.
Who is it that hasn't clarified themselves??
Most of us as we understand information tend to change it according to life lessons. Just because someone gets older through life doesn't mean they don't have the same passion and intensity for what they are saying....they may have betters ways of saying what they mean and gettng it out to the masses.

Not many people are willing to be up front and targets because it's safer sit back from the sidelines and observe.


It is definitely life. I'm willing to say I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. But, then again I'm not a public figure. Part of the video mentions David Icke has never clarified his viewpoint and distanced himself from prior views, despite saying things that are clearly contradictory. I think he should come up with a statement that say who he is and where he stands on everything. That is all.

--sjkted

[Rainbow44]

Totally understand your point of view sjkted............

I'm a public figure in my type of work so I know what it's like to have people wanting clarifications.
I just had a group totally rip me a new one because they had opinions of what I should do or could have done better.
I can't please the people in my arena so from my viewpoint I just see it as the eternal circle........where's the beginning and where's the end?
Maybe to David Icke has clarified himself, who knows.
The many videos I have seen of David Icke.........I havn't seen what you are saying but than I havn't looked for it.
So as I said..........I get your point of view.
Thanks for the responses.........it's been fun!

[aikisaw]

It isn't a Tibetan symbol. They use it, so do the hindus, but they did not originate it, so the Tibetan meaning isn't relevant for the NSDAP.
That is why I suggested that you go find out what those other names for the same thing mean.

Is this the definition you are using?

From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The word swastika came from the Sanskrit word svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. It is composed of su- meaning "good, well" and asti "to be" svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka either forms a diminutive or intensifies the verbal meaning, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which is associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word in this sense is first used in the Harivamsa.[2] As noted by Monier-Williams in his Sanskrit-English dictionary, according to Alexander Cunningham, its shape represents a monogram formed by interlacing of the letters of the auspicious words su-astí (svasti) written in Ashokan characters

[Wacko in pajamas]

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a427/wacko-doodle/IMG_0144.jpg (http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a427/wacko-doodle/IMG_0144.jpg)almost made it all the way through this. thank you for the post .

[Lord Sidious]

It isn't a Tibetan symbol. They use it, so do the hindus, but they did not originate it, so the Tibetan meaning isn't relevant for the NSDAP.
That is why I suggested that you go find out what those other names for the same thing mean.

Is this the definition you are using?

From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The word swastika came from the Sanskrit word svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. It is composed of su- meaning "good, well" and asti "to be" svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka either forms a diminutive or intensifies the verbal meaning, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which is associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word in this sense is first used in the Harivamsa.[2] As noted by Monier-Williams in his Sanskrit-English dictionary, according to Alexander Cunningham, its shape represents a monogram formed by interlacing of the letters of the auspicious words su-astí (svasti) written in Ashokan characters

There ya go, someone found the REAL meaning, the lucky symbol.
And the way it is on the flag, it is in motion, meaning perpetual good luck.

Now all we have to find is what the colours red, white and black are for.
And they aren't used as the traditional Prussian colours either.

[GK76]

Not sure why I have returned to this epically dismal video but I now use this as a useful tool to spot fallacies in effect. This guy (the film maker) is a deception artist and no mistake.

[taurad]

Avalonians, respects

i haven't watched the clip yet, but will do the minute i would find some time
i'm struggling to catch up with the forum's light-speed pace...

one observation i wanted to share with you all

all this years we're all going through a CRAZY ride...any ideas out of the box, excite us to the point of hard-2-control oneself...

before, we thought we knew anything about our own reality...in fact we knew nothing, but happily thought we did

but later on, fast-forwarding to this present moment, i think i don't know anything about anything (awakening stage)...in fact i know more than before, but unhappy about the realization of the bitter truth...nevertheless

it gets so confusing with the words as MASON gets thrown around @ will...sometimes it breaks my heart...people are falling in love with the new terminology, it's exotic, i understand...

i have a new-born-christian @ work; he is a smart individual...we were talking about Michael Richards racial runts, and he told me with absolute conviction that Michael Richards is a 33 degree MASON...

the other night my wife was demonstrating a dubious behavior...do i think she might have a secret agenda, because i'm not able to understand that particular behavior????

what about the fact that it's our own perception @ falt?

i'm afraid TPTB's best shield is population's lack of interest in the unpopular ideas...

i hope i was clear

be well

[aikisaw]

It isn't a Tibetan symbol. They use it, so do the hindus, but they did not originate it, so the Tibetan meaning isn't relevant for the NSDAP.
That is why I suggested that you go find out what those other names for the same thing mean.

Is this the definition you are using?

From Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The word swastika came from the Sanskrit word svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. It is composed of su- meaning "good, well" and asti "to be" svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka either forms a diminutive or intensifies the verbal meaning, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which is associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word in this sense is first used in the Harivamsa.[2] As noted by Monier-Williams in his Sanskrit-English dictionary, according to Alexander Cunningham, its shape represents a monogram formed by interlacing of the letters of the auspicious words su-astí (svasti) written in Ashokan characters

There ya go, someone found the REAL meaning, the lucky symbol.
And the way it is on the flag, it is in motion, meaning perpetual good luck.

Now all we have to find is what the colours red, white and black are for.
And they aren't used as the traditional Prussian colours either.

I found this and not much else of value on colors and their meaning. I attempted to source someplace other than Wiki all I found was a lot of decorating advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika


In his 1925 work Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler wrote that:

I myself, meanwhile, after innumerable attempts, had laid down a final form; a flag with a red background, a white disk, and a black swastika in the middle. After long trials I also found a definite proportion between the size of the flag and the size of the white disk, as well as the shape and thickness of the swastika.

When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and "those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation." (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: "As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work

I have a feeling that there is more to the story than what is quoted here. If so I need a point in the right direction.

[Möbius]

"If David Icke is 100% genuine, why does he change his view so much in his later videos as compared with the earlier ones in David Icke Debunked? I agree Chris White is a bible basher, but still, a video interview is a time record."

When the facts change you can do do one of two things:

(1) You can adjust your opinion;
(2) You can be stubborn and bury your head in the sand.

Which one are you?

[Lord Sidious]

I found this and not much else of value on colors and their meaning. I attempted to source someplace other than Wiki all I found was a lot of decorating advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika


In his 1925 work Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler wrote that:

I myself, meanwhile, after innumerable attempts, had laid down a final form; a flag with a red background, a white disk, and a black swastika in the middle. After long trials I also found a definite proportion between the size of the flag and the size of the white disk, as well as the shape and thickness of the swastika.

When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and "those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation." (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: "As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work

I have a feeling that there is more to the story than what is quoted here. If so I need a point in the right direction.

Go a long way back, think of ancient Egypt and Atlantis.

[3optic]

I wonder if anyone follows the reasoning on The Mayan calendar and particularly the approach to the Galactic Center. Have these theories been thoroughly debunked?
:confused:

[aikisaw]

I found this and not much else of value on colors and their meaning. I attempted to source someplace other than Wiki all I found was a lot of decorating advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika


In his 1925 work Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler wrote that:

I myself, meanwhile, after innumerable attempts, had laid down a final form; a flag with a red background, a white disk, and a black swastika in the middle. After long trials I also found a definite proportion between the size of the flag and the size of the white disk, as well as the shape and thickness of the swastika.

When Hitler created a flag for the Nazi Party, he sought to incorporate both the swastika and "those revered colors expressive of our homage to the glorious past and which once brought so much honor to the German nation." (Red, white, and black were the colors of the flag of the old German Empire.) He also stated: "As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work

I have a feeling that there is more to the story than what is quoted here. If so I need a point in the right direction.

Go a long way back, think of ancient Egypt and Atlantis.

Well Lord Sideous .....what an interesting ride this has been. I'm still not sure I have the answer you are looking for. We will know soon enough.

In Egyptian point of view Red and Black seem to have dual meaning.

White seems to be defined consistently on the different web sites that I checked.

Red was color of life and of victory. Also was related to anger fire and rage.


http://www.egyptianmyths.net/colors.htm

Red (desher) was the color of life and of victory. During celebrations, ancient Egyptians would paint their bodies with red ochre and would wear amulets made of cornelian, a deep red stone. Seth, the god who stood at the prow of the sun's barque and slew the serpent Apep daily, had red eyes and hair.

Red was also a symbol of anger and fire. A person who acted "with a red heart" was filled with rage. "To redden" meant "to die". Seth while the god of victory over Apep, was also the evil murderer of his brother Osiris. His red coloration could take on the meaning of evil or victory depending on the context in which he is portrayed. Red was commonly used to symbolize the fiery nature of the radiant sun and serpent amulets representing the "Eye of Re" (the fiery, protective, and possibly malevolent aspect of the sun) were made of red stones.

The normal skin tone of Egyptian men was depicted as red, without any negative connotation.

Red paint was created by Egyptian artisans by using naturally oxidized iron and red och

White = purity


The color white (hedj and shesep) suggested omnipotence and purity. Due to its lack of color white was also the color of simple and sacred things. The name of the holy city of Memphis meant "White Walls." White sandals were worn at holy ceremonies. The material most commonly used for ritual objects such as small ceremonial bowls and even the embalming table for the Apis Bulls in Memphis was white alabaster. White was also the heraldic color of Upper Egypt. The "Nefer", the crown of Upper Egypt was white, even though originally is was probably made of green reeds.

The pure white color used in Egyptian art was created from chalk and gypsum


Black was symbol of death and also the symbol of resurection.

In ancient Egypt, black (kem) was a symbol of death and of the night. Osiris, the king of the afterlife was called "the black one." One of the few real-life people to be deified, Queen Ahmose-Nefertari was the patroness of the necropolis. She was usually portrayed with black skin, although she was not a negro. Anubis, the god of embalming was shown as a black jackal or dog, even though real jackals and dogs are typically brown.

As black symbolized death it was also a natural symbol of the underworld and so also of resurrection. Unexpectedly perhaps, it could also be symbolic of fertility and even life! The association with life and fertility is likely due to the abundance provided by the dark, black silt of the annually flooding Nile. The color of the silt became emblematic of Egypt itself and the country was called "kemet" (the Black Land) by its people from early antiquity.

Black pigments were created from carbon compounds such as soot, ground charcoal or burnt animal bones

The Atlantis info falls into 2 category's .

The colors Red, Black,and ,White are the building blocks of Atlantis. The soil and minerals comprised of these colors.

The inhabitants were of these three colors. (some add the color yellow)

I have not been able to connect the dots on how this was used or viewed in 1900's Germany.

A link for people far smarter than myself that I found interesting was one a string theory page linking Black White Red and the strings that connect the swastika to Atlantis.

http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/black-white-red-are-the-strings-that-connect-the-swastika-to-atlantis/

[Lancelot]

Sounds like Chris White is the one who needs debunking.

This video does no discredit to David Icke, it only discredits Chris White.

Love, peace and understanding :)

[Lord Sidious]

On that link you provided, I found some very interesting info.


10,000 B.C. is the EARLIEST swastika on record traced to the Ukraine.
On another thread, I mentioned that the place we seem to have been seeded is this exact area.
It would appear that we ''arrived'' with this symbol and took it to India and other places on our journeys.

What I would hope you got from reading that source is that on the symbol alone, there is more to the use of it by the NSDAP than is commonly realised.
Eventually, you will see there is more to them overall as well.
But that is for another day.

[aikisaw]

On that link you provided, I found some very interesting info.


10,000 B.C. is the EARLIEST swastika on record traced to the Ukraine.
On another thread, I mentioned that the place we seem to have been seeded is this exact area.
It would appear that we ''arrived'' with this symbol and took it to India and other places on our journeys.

What I would hope you got from reading that source is that on the symbol alone, there is more to the use of it by the NSDAP than is commonly realised.
Eventually, you will see there is more to them overall as well.
But that is for another day.

I found this this thread about the pyramids in Bosnia. I think it relates to your ideas on seeding. Great thread either way.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4037-Bosnian-Valley-of-the-Pyramids-Worlds-Biggest-Pyramids&highlight=bosnia+pyramid

[Lord Sidious]

On that link you provided, I found some very interesting info.


10,000 B.C. is the EARLIEST swastika on record traced to the Ukraine.
On another thread, I mentioned that the place we seem to have been seeded is this exact area.
It would appear that we ''arrived'' with this symbol and took it to India and other places on our journeys.

What I would hope you got from reading that source is that on the symbol alone, there is more to the use of it by the NSDAP than is commonly realised.
Eventually, you will see there is more to them overall as well.
But that is for another day.

I found this this thread about the pyramids in Bosnia. I think it relates to your ideas on seeding. Great thread either way.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?4037-Bosnian-Valley-of-the-Pyramids-Worlds-Biggest-Pyramids&highlight=bosnia+pyramid

Yeah, that is another thread that is a fascinating read.
I want to know things and don't recognise limits like racism and the like.
Truth doesn't discriminate, only people do.
I find that I see things on cable, like the Ancient Aliens series and I know what is coming next and I can feel when they are wrong.

[slipknotted]

one of my favorite things jesus said was " a camel will pass through an eye of a needle before a rich man enters heaven " and david icke is doing good with the information thats getting to people, he's waking alot of people up. the guy is amazing.

[aikisaw]

I was researching a different topic and came across this article by John Taylor Gatto.

He is speaking about a link to England, Germany, Italy and the Baltic to India and Sanskrit.
This is part of a larger article linked here. http://www.lewrockwell.com/gatto/gatto-uhae-12.html



Your Family Tree

In 1896, Latin and Slavic immigration exceeded in body count for the first time the numbers arriving from the ancient lands of the Anglo-Saxons. In certain circles that was deemed a catastrophe second only to the Deluge. This moment had been anticipated for years, of course, and protections for good blood, or "the gene pool" as some preferred to call it, were popping like corn in the form of exclusionary associations you've seen and others like them. This was defensive. But other implements of war were being fashioned, weapons of offensive capability, social engines like modern factory schools, standing armies, social work empires designed to remake incoming aliens into shapes more agreeable to the spirit of the "Great Race," a term I'll explain in a moment. This machinery was grinding out "Americanized" Americans by 1913, just sixty-two years after the Know-Nothing Party of Massachusetts invented the term.

New hereditary societies took a leading hand in Americanization. So did important monied interests. Chicago financial power got the Children's Court idea rolling at the beginning of the twentieth century, just as Boston railroad, mining, and real estate interests had initiated the compulsion school idea in the nineteenth. The Children's Court institution was nationalized rapidly, a most effective intimidation to use against uncooperative immigrants. Such courts soon displayed a valuable second side, supplying children to the childless of the politically better-connected sort with few questions asked. The similarity of this transfer function to the historic "Baby Trains" of Charles Loring Brace's "Children's Aid Society" fifty years earlier wasn't lost on the new breed of social engineer graduating from the right colleges in 1900.

These new activist graduates, trained in the Chicago school of sociology and its anthropological variants by Ross, Cooley, Boas, and other seminal figures, had little sentimentality about individual destinies or family sovereignty either. All thought in terms of the collective improvement of society by long-range evolution. In the short run all were environmental determinists who believed protoplasm was wonderfully malleable, if not entirely empty.

In 1898 the D.A.R., best known of all hereditarian societies, began issuing scientifically designed propaganda lectures on American history and government. By 1904, the Society of Colonial Dames was preparing school curriculum. In the same year, the Sons of the American Revolution distributed millions of pieces of historical interpretation to schools, all paid for by the U.S. Department of Commerce. The Social Register, founded 1887, quickly became a useful index for the new associational aristocracy, bearing witness to those who could be trusted with the exciting work underway. Tiffany's started a genealogy department in 1875 to catch the first business from elites made edgy by The Descent of Man and, as the century ended, genealogical reference books — the Gore Roll, Boston's American Armoury and Blue Book, and more — came tumbling off the assembly line to assist Anglo-Saxons in finding each other.

As late as 1929, even with Mein Kampf in bookstalls telling the story of Aryans past and present, David Starr Jordan, president of Stanford, published his own guide to good blood, Your Family Tree. It provided in painstaking detail the descent of America's new industrial aristocracy, from monarchs of great Aryan houses. Abe Lincoln, Grover Cleveland, and John D. Rockefeller, said Jordan, came out of the house of Henry I of France; Ulysses S. Grant was in a line from William the Conqueror; Coolidge and Shakespeare descended from Charlemagne. William Howard Taft, J.P. Morgan, and Jordan himself from King David of Scotland! So it went.4 Was this all just simple amusement or did the game have some implications for the rest of us not so blue-blooded? Who were these fabulous Aryans the scholars were talking about? What was this "Great Race"? The answers were to prove both fabulous and chilling.

The Fatal Sound Shift

During the sixteenth century, a studious Italian merchant living in India pointed out to his wealthy friends some striking similarities between ancient Sanskrit and Italian: deva/dio for God, sarpa/serpe for snake, etc. All the Sanskrit numbers seemed related to the numbers of Italian. What could this mean? This early intuition came and went without much of a stir.

Then in 1786, during the early British occupation of India, the subject was addressed anew. In his speech to the Bengal-Oriental Society that year, Sir William Jones announced he believed a family connection existed between Sanskrit and English. It was tantamount to the University of Rome splitting the atom. Sir William declared Latin, Greek, and Sanskrit sprang "from some common source which perhaps no longer exists." Among English and Sanskrit he showed evidence for "a stronger affinity than could possibly have been produced by accident."

What common source might be the parent of Western civilization? Jones could not say, but only thirteen years later Sharon Turner's two-volume work, The History of the Anglo-Saxons, claimed to provide clues. There, replete with thousands of illustrations, was a record of Angles, Saxons, and Jutes out of ancient Germania as it had been preserved in song and story, Beowulf raised to a haunting power. Hundreds of cognates between modern English custom and ancient prototypes had been tracked by Turner; there seemed to be a stirring continuity between what Tacitus said about Germania and what upper-class English/American eyes saw when they looked into their modern mirrors.

The favorite occupations in antiquity were war, the chase, rough and tumble sports, wenching, and drinking, not unlike the preferences of contemporary Englishmen. When not thus engaged, men often lay idly about leaving all work for women to do. Gambling was common and every free man was expected to bear arms. Could the English be the mighty Aryans of prehistory?

In 1808, Karl Wilhelm Frederick von Schlegel, founder and editor of the Athenaeum, chief voice of German romanticism, wrote a scientific study of Sanskrit which maintained that the languages of India, Persia, Greece, Germany, Italy, and England were connected by common descent from an extinct tongue. Schlegel proposed the name Indo-Germanic for the vanished dialect. We are forced, he said, to believe all these widely separate nations are descendants of a single primitive people's influence. Oddly enough, Schlegel learned Sanskrit himself at the hands of Alexander Hamilton, his close friend and a close friend to the Prussian government. Schlegel was highly esteemed by both Hamilton and the Prussia regime.

To put yourself in touch with this exciting moment in recent history requires only a visit to a neighborhood library. The language and customs of this ancient Aryan people are caught in Vedic literature — the story of an invading people who forced themselves on the Indian subcontinent. As Americans had forced themselves on North American natives, a resonant parallel. Aryan literature was exclusively a literature of battle and unyielding hostility, the Vedas stirring hymns of a people surrounded by strangers alien in race and religion.

There could be no peace with such strangers; their destruction was a duty owed to God. Full of vigor, the Vedas breathe the attitudes of an invading race bent on conquest, a cultural prescription with which to meet the challenges of modern times. If only a way could be found to link this warrior people with the elites of England and America.

In 1816, the brilliant young Danish scholar Rasmus Rask not only accepted the relationship of Germanic, Hellenic, Italic, Baltic, and Indo-Iranian, but went further and found the missing connection. Rask had seen something no one else had noticed: between some Germanic streams of language and the others a regular sound-shift had occurred transforming the sounds of B, D, and G into those of P, T, and K. It meant an absolute identification could be established between England and ancient Germania. Rask wasn't prominent enough to promote this theory very far, but the man who stole it from him was — Jacob Grimm of fairy-tale fame. In the second edition of Deutsche Grammatik (1822), Grimm claimed the sound shift discovery which to this day is called "Grimm's Law." Salons on both sides of the Atlantic buzzed with the exciting

[str8thinker]

(Mobius, post #162) "If David Icke is 100% genuine, why does he change his view so much in his later videos as compared with the earlier ones in David Icke Debunked? I agree Chris White is a bible basher, but still, a video interview is a time record."

When the facts change you can do do one of two things:

(1) You can adjust your opinion;
(2) You can be stubborn and bury your head in the sand.

Which one are you?

A good point. Anyone can adjust their opinion, but it takes guts to admit that you have done so.

[The Mad spirtualist]

Nobody's got the whole truth! David has a lot! The guy is amazing! His message is not just gloom and doom but it gives you answers that will help you get to the next level. PTB don't want you to understand this information because it is VITAL to your survival! I would say between David's information and the information in the Cassiopaea Transscripts you would have everything you need to understand and make the right moves. This is just my opinion for what I have learn over many years and connecting dots.

[felixq78]

Icke I believe is an "unwitting" disinfo agent. He naively accepts the words of actual disinfo agents who know their job and are part of a skillful team. They know how he operates so they make it easy for him to cross reference his information by setting him up. They've led him to the people that THEY need to validate the disinformation he's researching. Credo Matwa is a good example, no doubt Credo has been disinfo'd too they've got to him in other more sinister ways too.
I'm afraid Alex was correct, they threw a turd into David's punch bowl of truth but instead of speaking out and admitting he was wrong about the Reptilian stuff, David just powers onwards as if non of it happened. Not good, not good at all because we lose people's hearts, they just switch off and go back to sleep. What a shame.

[prometheus]

Hi everybody!

I've watched the Icke's video. There are a lot of people who are not able to accept another kind of thinking, overall, theses whom their religious education represents the base of their entire life. I think that watching all those "awakening-videos´, they may think that we are the devil itself.

The arguments, which are presented in this video are not convincing at all. The theosophical-ground-ideas of Founder Madame Blavatsky are distorted by Alice Bailey. Don't forget, that Blavatsky was accused of fraud by the Christian College Magazine (Alexis and Emma Coulomb); magazine, which had no interest in revealing kind of information (esoteric, occultism). I don't know which path Alice Bailey chose, but if the video's information is right, I can say, that she was very far from Blavatsky´s Doctrine. I recommend very much Blavatsky´s books: The Secret Doctrine (1888) and Isis unveiled (1877). They have a lot of interesting passages, which make you think that she was right about many concepts.
Mahatma Ghandi and Alexander Scriabin were two celebrities, who were firstly influenced by Blavatsky, following afterwards both different paths in order to develop their own thoughts.

- To think that David Icke is a Theosophist doesn't make sense.

- To think that there is interest from certain religious groups to debunk people, who are doing great work in awaking humanity, makes more sense.

To conclude, I would like to add that I think it is very important to give an opportunity to these people, who have done and are doing amazing work for all of us, to express and discover the truth, without doubting from the beginning what they are saying. Sometimes, in order to discover the real truth, one should look also from the other side.

P.

[AlternativeInfoJunkie]

oooooohhh. isnt this those guys that go after zeitgeist and new age stuff?

[Bright Garlick]

Icke I believe is an "unwitting" disinfo agent. He naively accepts the words of actual disinfo agents who know their job and are part of a skillful team. They know how he operates so they make it easy for him to cross reference his information by setting him up. They've led him to the people that THEY need to validate the disinformation he's researching. Credo Matwa is a good example, no doubt Credo has been disinfo'd too they've got to him in other more sinister ways too.
I'm afraid Alex was correct, they threw a turd into David's punch bowl of truth but instead of speaking out and admitting he was wrong about the Reptilian stuff, David just powers onwards as if non of it happened. Not good, not good at all because we lose people's hearts, they just switch off and go back to sleep. What a shame.

So true, so true - a wonderful assessment !

[Gerald Paris]

I think a lot of the criticism towards chris white in this long ago thread is more out of a fondness for david icke. (not all of it..but A LOT OF IT) Chris white does an excellent job showing us why he believes what he does. His work is great for consideration. one should always know WHY THEY DISAGREE. as in... THE REASON WHY THEY DISAGREE. as in a basis for the disagreement..am I making myself clear here lol... too many folks are quick to cast hate at anyone who says "your hero is wrong". Chris white doesn't want people to be deceived by what he sees as a liar.. I get that.. I don't agree with the (end) reason(s) he feels he needs to debunk icke, but that doesn't mean that icke is right and white is wrong. lol this post is older then the dirt stuck to my shoe.. I just wanted to give the thread a bump to say my sayins on it.

we can see where he is in error with his reasoning, it does not mean that we have to bash his work. The man makes a few valid points. as does mr icke. there I said it.

Much Love

G

[MorningFox]

Anyway, the guy isn't interested in the truth, but rather defending his belief system.


Spot on and so often the case. It's pathetic and painfully transparent...

To go out of your way to try to discredit someone simply because they don't fit into your belief system is a rather poisonous pastime.