...And the Wolf Shall Dwell With The Lamb?

[Heyoka_11]

G'day All Avalonians,

Your thoughts please.

There is considerable hype on the net about alteration of the bible: especially Isaiah 11: 5-6, which reads "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb...". Like me, and many others, memory suggests that this verse should read "And The Lion shall dwell with The Lamb", or something pretty close to it. This chatter does not suggest that future copies of the bible will be edited, but that all current copies have been changed. I checked a copy, and sure enough it read "wolf". I checked a second and third version, and they also read "wolf".

Uh oh...plant a seed and watch it grow. Some are now claiming that Cern, the mandela effect, or alternate timelines are responsible. Well, if anything is responsible, maybe they are. Blowed if I know :noidea:

Whilst being far from a biblical scholar, I have never read or heard reference to the wolf anything. Well, until today that is. Naturally, my curiosity was piqued, and hence this thread.

So, what are your thoughts, and what is your memory of this oft' quoted verse?

Here is a YT video from Chris Curtis, who's accompanying notes read:

"I am 100% sure something has happened in space time. I don't know what has happened, but I am sure about this verse and other things that have changed in my reality. I think something is definitely happening and I would be prepared for even bigger changes in the future."

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I am simply curious, and approach the subject with an open mind, so please feel free to debunk.

In fact, here is a debunk video from Godrules, where the verse in question is dealt with at around 28:30.

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Didn't quite do it for me though.

Thanks,

Tony.

[bluestflame]

i remember lion too , must be something that remains embedded within the energies of our cellular memory, the importance of shielding and maintaining the integrity of the energies we entertain

[skyflower]

I remember it always being lion.

[Heyoka_11]

i remember lion too...

It's the only memory that I have, and that's why I have posted what I consider to be a pretty far fetched notion. The internet is awash with images of the lion/lamb scenario, whilst google searches for the wolf/lamb scenario are basically a flat-line (video No.1).

I'll run with Dr. David R. Reagan HERE (http://www.lamblion.us/2010/01/jesus-lamb-and-lion-elusive-verse.html) from the Lamb and Lion Ministries blog, who is regularly questioned on the subject. Basically no verse referencing lamb and lion coexisting exists in the bible: never has. It is akin to the Lord helping those who help themselves. That was never written in biblical text.

Yet another meme.

QED.

[PurpleLama]

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them

Isaiah 11:6 reads pretty much as I remember it. It seems that there is a later, NT reference to the passage, but it's early and I haven't gotten my coffee yet, so I'll look a little later and see if I can find it.

[Ewan]

This kind of thing blows my mind more than any other, there was a previous thread here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?85028-The-Mandela-Effect-and-alternative-timelines) regarding similar.

If Dr. David R. Regan contends there is no verse containing both lamb and lion then he has always lived on this Earth and does not come from the one I do. Quite how I came to be here I have no idea but I remember the imagery on the wall of the Sunday School clearly enough, a lamb asleep between the feet of a lion.

Furthermore, I reiterate it WAS Interview with a Vampire! :)

[PurpleLama]

Jesus is referenced as the Lion of Judah and as the Lamb of God in the book of Revelation.

[mosquito]

Hi Tony,

The thing to remember is that the words "lion", "wolf", "lamb" do not occur in the biblical source texts, for the simple reason that those texts were written in Hebrew, NOT English (which didn't even exist at the time). Now, I don't pretend to be any sort of expert, I know next to nothing about Hebrew, but I believe the written language is devoid of vowels, and that consequently, there are a great many words which cannot be translated directly into modern European languages but which are open to interpretation. It may well be that the word in the Hebrew text can be translated simply as "wild animal". I don't know for sure, but my experience with Chinese informs me that 1 to 1 translations from ancient languages to modern is fraght with difficulty. We also have to remember that the people who translated the bible into common languages did so with the aim of making it an attractive text, so "the lion shall lie down with the lamb" is a more poetic rendition than, for example, "the wolf shall bed the baby sheep".

I suggest that someone who speaks and reads Hebrew, and has access to the source material would be the person to resolve the problem.:thumbsup:

[amor]

I can't tell you about original translations from Hebrew etc., but I have Bibles at home (I am not presently there) between 50 and 100 years old and the phrase, "and the Lion shall lie down with the Lamb." is burned into my brain.

[Billy]

Isaiah 11.6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Hebrew OT
33609

Transliteration.
33610

KJV translation.
33611


http://www.qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/isaiah/11.html

[amor]

Changes have been made in recent Bibles in order to erase conflict between sects so that the New World Order rules can be eased into our lives and they are not fussy about preserving the Word Unchanged. We do not have to include Cern or the Mandela Effect, whatever that is. The vast majority of preachers are now in the employ of the Zionists whose plan is to take over and destroy all nations leaving themselves only, according to the Youtube videos I spent half the night watching. Apparently, destroying the population of the USA and making the land their own is the plot. They should have fun with the Chinese. Who will win? They, according to the videos, own Hollywood, all the press and media, the entire financial system, and the Presidency is choc a block zionist controlled. Therefore, we not only have the Muslems but the Zionist jews who want to kill everyone and take over the world. Note, there is a distinction between the jews and the ambitions of the Zionist jews according to the videos. Sexual depravity seems to go along with this lot.

[amor]

I have bibles 100 and 50 years old, King James Version, and "The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb" is burned into my brain. The printers are putting out new versions of bibles and changing the wording to enable the new world order to smooth out differences between sects and possibly change the moral code of existing christians.

[Tinman]

The truth is, most of the books of the Bible were written in Hebrew or Greek. In the Old Testament, 39 of the 46 books were originally written in Hebrew (with some portions written in Aramaic). 7 other books, called the deuterocanonicals (Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, and First and Second Maccabees. ) were written in Greek. This explains, in part, why Catholic Bibles have 46 books in the Old Testament and Protestant Bibles have only 39 – Protestants do not recognize those 7 books as part of the canon of the Bible.

All 27 books of the New Testament were originally written in Greek. By the third century, the Old Testament books originally written in Hebrew were translated into Greek, and by the fifth century, the entire Bible was translated into Latin. As centuries progressed, the Bible was translated into dozens of languages, including English. One of the earliest and best known English translations of the Bible was the King James Bible (completed in 1611). Suffice to say that, when someone gets upset about “contemporary” translations of the Bible, insisting that we use the “original” text, they had better be prepared to read either Hebrew or Greek because there is no such thing as the original English text.

[Heyoka_11]

I haven't gotten my coffee yet...

Hey PL, I have just poured my second cuppa tea, so hopefully am thinking somewhat clearly!


Jesus is referenced as the Lion of Judah and as the Lamb of God in the book of Revelation.

Yes: There are numerous references to Jesus as both The Lion, and separately as The Lamb; two sides to the same entity, being both The Conquering Lion and the Sacrificial Lamb.

From early my early childhood, the popular scene of a lamb resting with a lion, has been interpreted as a reference to a future time when killing, whether that be animal on animal, human on animal or human on human, would cease. Now when it comes to the animals, that could be seen as projecting our own wants and/or needs onto them, as life does feed upon life whether we are willing to accept it or not, but either way, it does serve to remind me that, from my human perspective at least, I am tired of the taking of life, and what is wrong with that?

Oops, off a rant. Another cuppa tea perhaps :tea:

Oo Roo,

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

I know next to nothing about Hebrew...

G'day mozzie,

Me too, other than the characters are apparently styled to resemble constellations.


...my experience with Chinese informs me that 1 to 1 translations from ancient languages to modern is fraught with difficulty.

So true, and this must be kept in mind. Also, the bible is to a fair degree a human work, though not entirely. Little use bogging down in semantics, though it does keep many an academic employed.

Thanks,

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

This kind of thing blows my mind more than any other...

G'day Ewan, and thanks for your post.

Yeh, my mind is blown as well, but by the simple fact that I have totally missed the word "Wolf", and not by the possible existence of alternate time-lines. That is a concept that I have a great deal of trouble with, but I remain open to most possibilities.

I read the opening post of the thread that you linked, thanks for doing that. I remember that when the series first began, it was titled "Sex and the City", and thinking that that was awfully close to "Sex in the City". If popular belief is that the latter title is correct, then perhaps that says something about where are minds are, nothing more :lol: .

Thanks,

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

...and "The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb" is burned into my brain.

It is burned into my brain as well, but was it ever printed on a page, probably not.

Thanks,

Tony.

[mosquito]

Isaiah 11.6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

.......

Excellent, well found.

[skyflower]

all those years in Sunday school, and Sunday sermons...have never..ever mentioned wolf with a lamb....It was always a lion with a lamb.
I remember the cereal being "FRUIT LOOPS" not froot loops. ( Another recent find for me)

[Heyoka_11]

all those years in Sunday school, and Sunday sermons...have never..ever mentioned wolf with a lamb....It was always a lion with a lamb.

OK, I am still scratching my head. Kinda weird isn't it?


I remember the cereal being "FRUIT LOOPS" not froot loops. ( Another recent find for me)

Now you've got me going!

I too remember "Fruit Loops", but old advertising would suggest otherwise. Here is an ad circa 1963, where Toucan Sam is attempting to teach his three nephews pig Latin: as in Ootfray Oopslay. Must admit, that would look even sillier as "Uitfray Oopslay".

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And guess what...the fruit versus froot debate is raging there as well (you probably knew that).

Somewhat off-topic, but such matters require resolution.

[Ahnung-quay]

Under the theory of astrotheology, animals in the bible refer to constellations/planets and are used figuratively for the twelve tribes of Israel. Judah was the lion, born when the constellation Leo was rising. All of the begets and begats are supposed to prove Jesus' direct descent from Judah.
I don't know what constellation the wolf represents. What is interesting to me is that the Native American medicine wheel makes use of the wolf in the position of western astrology ' s Leo. If anyone has information on the Hebrew/Egyptian wolf constellation, I would appreciate it.
I also remember lion and lamb laying down together. My bible printed 1971 lists "wolf". I know this post kind of veers away from the subject but I believe all spiritual belief came from one source.
From some study of astrotheology and the Native American medicine wheel, I believe that the bear represents Aquarius/Uranus. Bear is across from the wolf on the medicine wheel. 'And I saw a bear with 3 ribs in his teeth' may refer to the 3 loops that the planet Neptune makes when viewing it's orbit compared to the orbit of Uranus.
So are wolf and lion representing the same constellation?

[Heyoka_11]

I know this post kind of veers away from the subject...

That is so not the case! (it drags me back from Fruit Loops :lol: )

G'day Ahnung-quay,

...and thanks for your post, which is totally on-subject, and certainly grist to the mill. I read a book quite a few years which dealt with The Book of Revelation from a totally cosmological perspective and thoroughly enjoyed the alternative perspective. Our ancestors based so much of their wisdom on heavenly observation that it would be folly to ignore it. I had made mention in post 15 that the characters of the Hebrew language are styled to resemble the constellations.

One school of thought suggest that the wolf is represented by the constellation Lupus. Here is an image and a brief discourse:

33618

"Head outside on an early summer evening, and you may just see a wolf. It’s not a real wolf, but Lupus, the wolf constellation in the night sky. Visible primarily in June to residents of the Northern Hemisphere, Lupus is a constellation that lies in the southern sky, near Norma, Scorpius, Circinus, Centaurus, Libra, and Hydra.
Its name is Latin for wolf. Listed among the 48 constellations named by Second Century astronomer Ptolemy, Lupus is now one of the 88 modern constellations.
Originally, however, Lupus was not seen as a separate constellation, but an asterism within neighboring Centaurus. In fact, it wasn’t even originally described as a wolf, but only as an undefined animal killed by Centaurus. To this day, renderings of the two constellations usually depict a dead wolf hanging from the centaur’s spear. Prior to Ptolemy’s time, another astronomer, Hipparchus of Bithynia, had named the asterism Therion, meaning “beast.”
Lupus contains 41 stars, none of which are exceptionally bright. Nine of them make up its shape — a sort of figure eight. The brightest of these, Alpha Lupi, is also known as Men. The second brightest, the blue giant Beta Lupi, is called KeKouan.
The constellation contains a handful of deep sky objects, including globular clusters NGC 5824, NGC 5927, and NGC 5986, open clusters NGC 5822 and NGC 5749, and the dark nebula B 228.
Lupus, itself, is not associated with any specific myth, though wolves do figure in many myths and legends. In ancient Rome, for instance, wolves were seen as sacred, because Romulus and Remus, the mythological founders of the empire, were said to have been suckled by a she-wolf".

I found both the image and description HERE (http://farmersalmanac.com/astronomy/2012/06/04/lupus-the-night-wolf/).

The ancient Romans referred to Lupus as Bestia (the beast), though I doubt that this should be confused with the biblical beast.

So it may be that The Lion and The Wolf are represented by different constellations.

Thanks again,

Tony.

[shaberon]

It's not hype; they're still trying to write the OT. What we get, in English, depends on someone who depends on someone who depends on someone...etc...but you can rely on the Scofield Concordance to push a pro-Zionist reading.

I don't know the particular verse for wolf vs. lion, but I have found that a fairly close neighbor, Bart Ehrman, has produced several books and has an active website that is a good resource...he retracted from theological interpretations, and does quite a scrutinous job at examining Biblical texts from a purely historical perspective. Therefor, a good start for questions about original texts. http://www.bartdehrman.com/ His blog includes a user forum where he will eventually get around to answering questions in a nice way.

I would also point out the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, which Jerome had to ask permission to look at--not that his view was necessarily favorable, or his opinion important. But, that's a non-Greek NT, whereas Greek OT may be less doctored than the Hebrew.

With regards to an astrological interpretation, I find this likely. I would tend to agree that astrology is the original science, earthly and spiritual at the same time. With the four creatures of Ezekiel, the Man being Aquarius and Aquila the Eagle veils Scorpio. Of course, that gets complicated quick. When taking a quick look at the Native American equivalents, they don't seem to be talking about constellations, but simply ascribing a totem animal to each moon/month starting from the solstice.

Overall I don't trust it, as most of the first Christians were Gnostics who had no Bible, which was mostly banged together by Romans who weren't exactly playing fair.

[skyflower]

Hi Heyokah,

Have you by any chance, come back after unsubscribing?
Because it just occurred to me...I remember seeing your "unsubscribed" status under your ID last year...... *scratching head*

I have yet to go to my parent's place to look for my old bible....I need to check this lion wolf thing.....

another personal event that happened to me...Last October I went to visit my best friend in Asia. She has this big luggage she got with me here in the US. It was a silver luggage. I saw it for many years, so I remember it clearly. It was silver.
Well, last october, when I saw it....it was BLACK. I asked my friend whether she got a new luggage. nope. it was the one she got with me here in the US.

[Heyoka_11]

With regards to an astrological interpretation, I find this likely.

G'day shaberon,

Thanks for your post and link to Bart's site. I have bookmarked it, but will have to wait for more data in a couple of days before I can afford to forrage.

The book to which I alluded is entitled "Meditations on The Apocalypse" by F. Aster Barnwell (1992). As I wrote, it offers a totally fresh, astrological perspective on the book, and once I picked it up, I read it through, which is something of a rarity.

Oo Roo,

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

Have you by any chance, come back after unsubscribing?

Hi skyflower,

Now that would be Heyokah, and my tag is Heyoka_11. There was a bit of confusion when I first joined the forum, as I chose Heyoka, but later added the _11 to clear things up.

Regards the luggage.....who knows? Yes, far stranger things have happened, but I would not be reading too much into it. Oftentimes it is far better to simply accept such apparent anomalies as a mystery, and having mystery in one's life is a more favourable alternative to leading a life devoid of it. That may well not help, but it is the best that I can do.

Thanks for relating the tail.

All the Best,

Tony.

[PurpleLama]

If one has an eye for it, one might notice things changing all the time, as in skyflower's friend's luggage. I have a black foot locker that suddenly became blue about five years after I got it. And, don't get me started on things disappearing in one place and reappearing somewhere else.

I actually was in on the Mandela effect fifteen years ago, when a friend and I discovered we both remembered him dying in prison only to still be alive, and he died a few more times until a few years ago, and Gene Hackman, Peter Falk, not to mention various other public figures. I've noticed old building where empty lots used to be and empty lots where shopping centers used to be. These things are difficult to remember at all, if you don't talk to anyone about it right when you notice the differences, which leads me to believe that these things occur more frequently than we might guess.

[conk]

As a young child the Lord's Prayer imprinted in my mind as if by laser. The version in Bibles now is not the same.

People, me included, distinctly remember the Long Island Ferry. As a kid I was always in awe of people who got to ride the ferry every day. Now there is a bridge and people claim it's been there forever.

Sex in the City vs. Sex and the City
Bernstein Bears vs. Bernstain Bears.
Interview with a Vampire vs. Interview with the Vampire
Fruit Loops vs. Froot Loops
So many more. Are our memories that bad?

[Heyoka_11]

And, don't get me started on things disappearing in one place and reappearing somewhere else.

That calls to mind the near hysteria that was whipped up by the book "The Celestine Prophecy" many years ago: it is a phenomenon that most folk can relate to, and in all probability, in some instances is for real. Mischievous astral activity perhaps, though I believe it requires considerable strength to perform such an act, even on small items.


I actually was in on the Mandela effect fifteen years ago, when a friend and I discovered we both remembered him dying in prison only to still be alive, and he died a few more times until a few years ago...

The Mandela Effect could be a thread in its own right. There are so many that distinctly remember his having died in prison.


These things are difficult to remember at all, if you don't talk to anyone about it right when you notice the differences, which leads me to believe that these things occur more frequently than we might guess.

Hence the need to make mention of such events as they happen, even if we feel a tad awkward.

BTW, When I use the word mystery, I mean unexplained, whatever side of the veil the actual explanation may lie on. I hope that I did not convey disbelief.

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

People, me included, distinctly remember the Long Island Ferry.

Hey conk,

Can I ask which LI service you are referring to?


Fruit Loops vs. Froot Loops

Oops...Back to Fruit Loops :lol:

I swear it was Fruit Loops! But... the word recognition centre of the brain will virtually translate a misspelling which enables us to understand. Such activity occurs in far less that the twinkling of an eye, and without our being consciously aware. Sometimes we remember the misspelling, and other times the translation.

Fruit Loops, Fruit Loops, Fruit Loops... Heyoka :first: ...to hell with Froot.

[PurpleLama]

I remember fruit loops, fwiw.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And berenstein bears. Hey, my phone didn't autocorrect to berenstain. In fact, it tried to autocorrect the latter!

Hmmmm.

[shaberon]

As a young child the Lord's Prayer imprinted in my mind as if by laser. The version in Bibles now is not the same.

People, me included, distinctly remember the Long Island Ferry. As a kid I was always in awe of people who got to ride the ferry every day. Now there is a bridge and people claim it's been there forever.

Sex in the City vs. Sex and the City
Bernstein Bears vs. Bernstain Bears.
Interview with a Vampire vs. Interview with the Vampire
Fruit Loops vs. Froot Loops
So many more. Are our memories that bad?

Yes.

Is it related to the development of writing? In things like the bardic traditions, an apprentice would basically live with a master, memorizing word-for-word an amount of literature that would fill volumes. I probably won't remember your short post for two minutes, except that it has sex in it. But this is an unnatural, electrified, wordy form of existence. I'm not under the stars repeating verbatim a tale from previous generations. We've forgotten how to read that primordial language written right there above us.

Why is it the Lord's Prayer (Adonai or Adonai Tsabaoth)? Didn't Jesus speak almost entirely of Abba (Father), which this prayer is addressed to? Father is in heaven which is within you; subordinate the earthly will and world to this. Simple, elegant, works for me.

Focus on "forgive us of sin", then we start a fear and guilt complex, and what's needed for forgiveness and salvation. It's really easy to add, twist, and alter these things, and lose that core message...and with minds that can't remember words, but can substitute memories of bridges for boats...I think something has atrophied, from the excessive use of writing, and compressing activity down to the level of minutes.

[skyflower]

Yes, I also remember Mandela dying in prison.
Billy Graham died....but he is still alive.
I remember Betty White died a few years ago. I even watched the SNL special in her honor. But she is alive today.


There is this lady Starfire Tor....she says this is all due to timeline edits. She claims it usually happens during solar storms. Fascinating Theory.

Whatever the situation may be....I feel like I am noticing more and more of these "anomalies" as time goes by. Is that because of our awareness to it, or is it happening more often? *scratching head*

[Heyoka_11]

...I think something has atrophied, from the excessive use of writing, and compressing activity down to the level of minutes.

Great post shaberon! Nail on the head stuff. No matter which way I look at it, your post was probably the most insightful on this thread.

Thanks,

Tony

[bluestflame]

the importance
of retaining hardcopies , as the drive to convert everything to be in electronic form enables much easier " gaslighting"

[conk]

Heyoka_11, not sure about anything regarding the LI ferry. I'm a Southern boy and just remember being enamored of the big city life. Just heard the phrase Long Island Ferry so many times in movies, TV, and reading it in print.

Who knows, it just seems my memories of many examples given as support for the Effect ring true for me too. The fairy tale line was always "mirror mirror on the wall" and not "magic mirror on the wall". Also remember distinctly the Chic-fil-a sign as a youngster and asking my mom why they misspelled Chick. So many more. Perhaps there is a sound explanation, but for now it's fun entertainment. ;)

[SilentFeathers]

Well, I remember being taught there was 9 planets.....but, now there are only 8. hmmmmmm

What something says and what someone may teach are often two different things. When I was young my bible said "wolf" but they taught "lion"......different bibles types have different translations, nothings changed and the print in bibles have not been miraculously and mysteriously changed.

Geez, the mandela effect????????????? yeah, the earth is flat too!

[Heyoka_11]

Just heard the phrase Long Island Ferry so many times in movies, TV, and reading it in print.

Hey conk,

Have a look HERE (http://www.longisland.com/ferry-schedules.html) and you'll find nineteen ferry services listed, in and out of Long Island. This may suggest a logical explanation for the apparent anomaly, that being that you may have tied the wrong ferry with the location of a bridge: easy to do. I am in favour of exhausting all simple possibilities before turning to the paranormal.


The fairy tale line was always "mirror mirror on the wall" and not "magic mirror on the wall".

The two can coexist quite comfortably. At some point, Brothers Grimm convention was broken with, and a new phrase was born.


Also remember distinctly the Chic-fil-a sign as a youngster and asking my mom why they misspelled Chick.

Hey I recall asking Mum why it was that when tickets to an event were offered for sale to the public, only the blokes could buy them (mail order).


Perhaps there is a sound explanation, but for now it's fun entertainment. ;)

Exactly! Be aware of both the possible existence of bona fide anomalies, and our, at times, dodgy memories.

There is a website devoted to the Mandela effect HERE (https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/) which treats the subject both seriously and with mirth.

Oh dear.....Now it's "Beam me up Scotty" that has apparently changed.

[Heyoka_11]

Well, I remember being taught there was 9 planets.....but, now there are only 8. hmmmmmm

Yes, poor old Pluto! Apparently size does matter.


Geez, the mandela effect????????????? yeah, the earth is flat too!

If you'd like a laugh, have a look at the link to the Mandela Effect website that is in my reply to conk (post 38).

Tony.

[shaberon]

...I think something has atrophied, from the excessive use of writing, and compressing activity down to the level of minutes.

Great post shaberon! Nail on the head stuff. No matter which way I look at it, your post was probably the most insightful on this thread.

Thanks,

Tony

Thanks Tony. If you look at, for example, how videography has changed in just our lifetimes? They used to let one camera film a scene...it would just sit there and grab the action and dialogue placidly. Then maybe twenty years ago, it got "cut off" to about eight seconds, to make it more exciting, and great dialogues were reduced to soundbytes. Now, a lot of productions are down to...one second per camera angle, with a lot of swooping and cgi flashes. Everything is really sped up, and it hits me like a punch in the nose.

There is probably a camp that believes that the younger brains can absorb and process this bedazzlement just as well as someone 500 years ago sitting through a two hour play. Maybe this is a "greater skill" brought about by evolution? Or maybe its an addictive form of damage?

At the very least, patience and concentration seem to be in short supply. How could someone get bored, unless the natural ability of their brain to keep its lights on, had been depleted? They have been re-wired for external stimulation instead of being filled with wisdom. At my last job, as soon as there was a break in the customers, that's what my co-worker would say...I'm bored. I didn't think we were working for entertainment, and I hoped there would be something more that someone could contribute to conversation, but that one's kind of a dead end.

Seems off-topic, but I believe it is related to the changing of words and the watering-down of meaning.

[Heyoka_11]

Seems off-topic...

But I do not think it is.

Not only are we asking ourselves to assimilate the split second videography that you made mention of, but often multiple story-lines at the same time, then to factor in the twist, and wait for all to be revealed (and that is just drama). Too much information, which I believe may be having a deleterious effect on our ability to concentrate and possess a clear recollection of past events. Imagine a wisdom teaching delivered in that manner...actually don't imagine that, as the two are polar opposites, best left apart.

To me, it is akin to speed reading. Yes, the brain can process information at phenomenal speed, and if all you wish to achieve is the assimilation of information, it may well work. The books that I read however require time: time to ponder and question. Further, I believe that time is what we all need, as a race, lest our lives become a finite stream of single second grabs, and our expectation on our ability to recollect is that we do such in a similar, split-second manner. Little wonder memories are becoming dodgy.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

I'm not all that convinced by this Mandela effect theory - I've tried, I've really tried to get there, but nothing I've seen 'yet' gets me across the line.

"The Lion shall Lie down with the Lamb", for example, hasn't changed, it's still there in popular culture (https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=766&q=the+lion+shall+lie+down+with+the+lamb&oq=the+lion+shall+lie+&gs_l=img.1.0.0j0i24l4.1056.3606.0.4704.19.12.0.7.7.0.70.546.11.11.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..1.18.556... 0i30j0i8i30.oKKdFEHST7Y)

Is it just possible that sometimes people might get a bit dazed or bewildered with how they remembered something, and then guess, second guess, and re-guess again until they're not quite sure what it was in the beginning, but get convinced (incorrectly) it was actually "this" rather than "that"??

I do get the 'Sex in the City' and 'Interview With A Vampire' confusion – I thought it was those too. But I'm open to the possibility that I'm quite wrong. Memes can bend your mind, and program your thoughts - and it's more likely to me that 'Sex in the City' as a title (as a meme and a buzzword) became more popular on people's lips than 'Sex And the City', even though the former is not actually the right title.

I'm also open to the possibility of parallel or alternate timelines – but if they were overlapping with our own timeline somehow, and some people were able to remember changes in their perceived realities, I'd expect these changes to be a little bit more meaningful than movie titles and titbits – because it always seems to be just movie titles and titbits of dialogue etc. A lot can be explained away too. "Beam me up, Scotty" as a slogan for example, has been around for years, and it's very well known that it never actually got mentioned in dialogue - in any episode or film. The closest Kirk ever got to it was "Scotty, beam me up," once, in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Similar to "Elementary, my dear Watson." Myth and invention, because Homes never said it!

That said, there was one, tiny little 'mandela effect' I myself experienced some years ago (long before I ever heard of the phenomenon). I saw an advert for the sports brand, Adidas. I had a sports bag, as well as football boots as a kid, that were made by that brand. But I could have sworn, sworn, it was spelt "Addidas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adidas)" with two d's. It was scrawled across my sports bag for years!

[Heyoka_11]

That said, there was one, tiny little 'mandela effect' I myself experienced some years ago (long before I ever heard of the phenomenon). I saw an advert for the sports brand, Adidas. I had a sports bag, as well as football boots as a kid, that were made by that brand. But I could have sworn, sworn, it was spelt "Addidas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adidas)" with two d's. It was scrawled across my sports bag for years!

G'day Star Mariner,

A non-genuine item perhaps, with deliberately miss spelt logo to avoid copyright issues. Well...maybe.

My first thought was that you may have subconsciously associated a word containing the string a,d,d,i with the brand of Adidas, as there is a single 'd' in it. When encountering a new word, the brain will attempt to make such an association in an attempt to quicken future recognition, and to differentiate between the two words. This may be especially true when we encounter abstract words, like Adidas, which originates from the brands founder Adi Dassler.

According to More Words (http://www.morewords.com/contains/addi/) there are 98 words that contain this particular string of letters. The first word that sprang to my mind was Aladdin, but then that's a name, so I'll leave it at 98. Aladdin / Adidas was a known association that still occurs to me to this time.

[DNA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbnS-CU-sKI
YbnS-CU-sKI




My wife's been reading up on this and confiding in what exactly in all of this is convincing her it may be true. And for her, it is this weird thing with the Brady Bunch.
She states that she and her sisters were experts on all things Brady Bunch, but that she has just learned that there was a show within a show, the Brady Bunch Variety Hour, and this amounted to something like seven 1 hour shows that she never saw, which she simply can't believe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhObKKvzijc
rhObKKvzijc




For me it's the little things.
Like being perplexed at the spelling of a word, that seems to have changed.

[DNA]

Here is the actual video my wife watched where upon someone is discussing the mandella effect in connection with Cern and merging realities.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-mZRdHIMW4

[Heyoka_11]

Here is the actual video my wife watched where upon someone is discussing the mandela effect in connection with Cern and merging realities.

G'day DNA,

The following excerpt is from a YT comment at 6:38 in the video above.

"If this really is "real", then I think the world (as it exists in this timeline/universe/whatever) would do itself a tremendous favor to try and forget that this show ever happened".

Which is probably...what has happened. We are going back forty years after all, and memories of life's most forgettable moments do fade (quickly).

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brady_Bunch):

"On November 28, 1976, a two-hour television special entitled The Brady Bunch Variety Hour aired on ABC. Eve Plumb (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Plumb) was the only regular cast member from the original show who declined to be in the series and the role of Jan was recast with Geri Reischl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geri_Reischl).[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brady_Bunch#cite_note-29) Produced by Sid and Marty Krofft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_and_Marty_Krofft), the sibling team behind H.R. Pufnstuf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.R._Pufnstuf), Donny and Marie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donny_%26_Marie_%281976_TV_series%29), and other variety shows and children's series of the era, the show was intended to air every fifth week in the same slot as The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardy_Boys/Nancy_Drew_Mysteries), but ended up being scheduled sporadically throughout the season, leading to inconsistent ratings and its inevitable cancellation". (emphasis mine)

Tell your wife to rest easy, as she probably never saw this show to begin with, or her cerebral garbage disposal unit was functioning just fine :lol: .

Thanks for the post,

Tony.

[DNA]

Here is the actual video my wife watched where upon someone is discussing the mandela effect in connection with Cern and merging realities.

G'day DNA,

The following excerpt is from a YT comment at 6:38 in the video above.

"If this really is "real", then I think the world (as it exists in this timeline/universe/whatever) would do itself a tremendous favor to try and forget that this show ever happened".

Which is probably...what has happened. We are going back forty years after all, and memories of life's most forgettable moments do fade (quickly).

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brady_Bunch):

"On November 28, 1976, a two-hour television special entitled The Brady Bunch Variety Hour aired on ABC. Eve Plumb (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Plumb) was the only regular cast member from the original show who declined to be in the series and the role of Jan was recast with Geri Reischl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geri_Reischl).[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brady_Bunch#cite_note-29) Produced by Sid and Marty Krofft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_and_Marty_Krofft), the sibling team behind H.R. Pufnstuf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.R._Pufnstuf), Donny and Marie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donny_%26_Marie_%281976_TV_series%29), and other variety shows and children's series of the era, the show was intended to air every fifth week in the same slot as The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hardy_Boys/Nancy_Drew_Mysteries), but ended up being scheduled sporadically throughout the season, leading to inconsistent ratings and its inevitable cancellation". (emphasis mine)

Tell your wife to rest easy, as she probably never saw this show to begin with, or her cerebral garbage disposal unit was functioning just fine :lol: .

Thanks for the post,

Tony.


It's not as simple as that.
My wife LOVED the Brady Bunch. She bought books concerning Brady Bunch trivia as a young kid. She knew ALL of the various incarnations of the Brady Bunch, via movies, or to be continued episodes, and she knew all of the various projects the actors had been in subsequently.
What you stated would apply just fine to myself. Though I was very surprised to see this, I wasn't going to state it never happened, never being more than a casual fan of the show as a child.


Here is a video with Andrew Bisiago talking about the mandela effect.
Pretty cool stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az1bzlVaqjE
Az1bzlVaqjE

[Heyoka_11]

It's not as simple as that.

Granted DNA...

I knew that my post was a humorous oversimplification, hence the chuckle. What we are discussing here is pretty mind blowing stuff, and the door should be left open to its possible authenticity.

Unfortunately we can only speculate as to the possible cause, and hopefully not get hung-up.

Tony.

**Update**

That radio interview is certainly "pretty cool stuff", and well worth a listen.

I need a Bex (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF6ffbz70SY)and a little lie down!

Tony.

[skyflower]

Is it just me or does it seem this Mandela effect is gaining traction? I feel a lot more people are talking about it.....

[Heyoka_11]

Is it just me or does it seem this Mandela effect is gaining traction? I feel a lot more people are talking about it.....

Hi skyflower,

Good to hear from you again.

This thread has certainly been an eye-opener, as I had not heard of the Mandela effect before, and yes, there is much internet natter on the subject. If you haven't done so already, have a listen to the radio interview that DNA included in post #47, and take a look at the Mandela Effect (https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/) website. Although I cannot say that I have any lost memories that may be attributed to the effect, out of respect I think it necessary to adopt the observer stance, and treat others claims with respect.

Tony ;)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Had a look through a long list of reported mandela effect happenings, and a very great many of them I think can simply be put down to bad memory, bad spelling, and just personal error. For example some remembering the phrase "at least" being spelt "atleast" (one word). I believe that is just bad memory and bad spelling, rather than one having shifted into another timeline.

There are some strange instances though, like "Walt Disney World" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World). I've always known it as simply "Disney World". Nor is the name "Smithsonian Institution" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian_Institution) all that familiar, I'm more accustomed with "Smithsonian Institute". I don't know why that is. It could be because they are popularly and culturally known a particular (shortened) way, and are used to such an extent that their 'official names' are largely forgotten.

But there was one listed mandela effect example that really caught me by surprise. And I'm not sure what to think, or how to explain it. I've watched Star Wars – all the Star Wars films – since virtually the beginning. I've seen them literally dozens of times over the years. There are bound to be geeks on here like me. So you tell me, what colour are C3PO's legs?

Apparently, one of them is silver, and has always been silver:

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_scale,h_480,w_720/t_mp_quality/nzbgoxjoolfusscmjwwy/star-wars-battlefront-has-a-classic-movie-c-3po-and-r2d2-intro-718396.jpg

I am really, really surprised by that finding. I have no recollection of C3PO having one silver leg. I don't know if that's mandela effect or faulty memory. Probably faulty memory - I saw it, but never consciously registered it. Now that I have registered it, it's just really surprising to me I never noticed it before.

[SilentFeathers]

Had a look through a long list of reported mandela effect happenings, and a very great many of them I think can simply be put down to bad memory, bad spelling, and just personal error. For example some remembering the phrase "at least" being spelt "atleast" (one word). I believe that is just bad memory and bad spelling, rather than one having shifted into another timeline.

I've spent a bit of time looking in to this and I totally agree about the bad memory and bad spelling. Many of the claims are just plain wrong as I have somewhat of a photographic memory and have found numerous mistakes in almost all of these claims and video's.

Of course some things I am not familiar with and don't have a clue either way what was what back then, but what I am familiar with these people seem to just can't or don't want to remember.

The world is in such a mess I think a large reason many are jumping in to this "Mandella" craze head first is that deep down in their subconscious and inner being they want things to change so bad from the sad state of affairs many things are in now that they are willing to believe about anything....

[skyflower]

Is it just me or does it seem this Mandela effect is gaining traction? I feel a lot more people are talking about it.....

Hi skyflower,

Good to hear from you again.

This thread has certainly been an eye-opener, as I had not heard of the Mandela effect before, and yes, there is much internet natter on the subject. If you haven't done so already, have a listen to the radio interview that DNA included in post #47, and take a look at the Mandela Effect (https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/) website. Although I cannot say that I have any lost memories that may be attributed to the effect, out of respect I think it necessary to adopt the observer stance, and treat others claims with respect.

Tony ;)







Hi Heyoka,

I was made aware of this Mandela effect a while ago, and when I found out that there were others with similar experiences, it meant that I was not losing my mind. It explained my weird experiences that I had pushed to the back of my mind. I did not make a big deal out of it but I did place a ? Mark to those events.

I agree, a lot of the YouTube videos seem incorrect at least in my version of "reality" but who am I to say it's not for them?

It only takes one true event, and I have a few that I know to the core of my being that certain things have changed.

I like the explanation that Basiago gave, how we are the ones jumping into parallel realities. It's a great video.

Here's another one ...those hot dogs....Oscar Meyer. This one had a song, and it literally forced me to memorize it since I heard it so many times.....but now it's Mayer ?

[Heyoka_11]

There are bound to be geeks on here like me. So you tell me, what colour are C3PO's legs?

I found this one last night, but pulled the pin on posting it as I was too tired.

Like SilentFeathers, I'll lay claim to a photographic memory, much to the annoyance of those that know me, more than one of which has referred to me as "Sheldon", as I tend to correct others on what they claim are insignificant details. To me it's simply a laugh, and I enjoy bring people's dodgy memories to their attention. Does that qualify me as a geek? Oh well...if the sh*t fits...

C3PO's legs were both gold.

Here is an image of an imposter :lol:

33645

Here's the real dude (look closely though).

33646

I have no memory of a silver leg, but given his innumerable repair jobs, that may have been the case at some stage (He actually received the gold plating during the early stages of the Clone Wars... checked it out on Wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/C-3PO/Legends?utm_source=wikia&utm_campaign=recirc&utm_medium=incontent&utm_content=2) ). In many images, the silver leg swaps from left to right, so who's to know. It appears that there may be no hard and fast rule here, so once again, I'll simply let it be.

After I go through the movies for the umpteenth time that is!

How's that for geekdom?

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

The world is in such a mess I think a large reason many are jumping in to this "Mandela" craze head first is that deep down in their subconscious and inner being they want things to change so bad from the sad state of affairs many things are in now that they are willing to believe about anything....

G'day SilentFeathers,

More than just an element of truth there.

When we feel that there is something awry, we are very quick to search for an extrinsic phenomenon to blame it on, and painfully slow to pay attention to inner workings that require our greater attention. This is where something like the Mandela Effect can serve as little more than a distraction when we allow it to overtake us. I do not wish to detract from its possible validity, but rather suggest that the reins need to be held tight.

Thanks for the post,

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

Here's another one ...those hot dogs....Oscar Meyer. This one had a song, and it literally forced me to memorize it since I heard it so many times.....but now it's Mayer ?

G'day skyflower,

aNddW2xmZp8

You memorised that song?...

:idea: My only explanation is that perhaps for years you remembered a tune, but tunes do not have subtitles when the jingle is running in our mind. You may have assigned an incorrect spelling to the brand yourself.

How does that sound?

Tony

[SilentFeathers]

The world is in such a mess I think a large reason many are jumping in to this "Mandela" craze head first is that deep down in their subconscious and inner being they want things to change so bad from the sad state of affairs many things are in now that they are willing to believe about anything....

G'day SilentFeathers,

More than just an element of truth there.

When we feel that there is something awry, we are very quick to search for an extrinsic phenomena to blame it on, and painfully slow to pay attention to inner workings that require our greater attention. This is where something like the Mandela Effect can serve as little more than a distraction when we allow it to overtake us. I do not wish to detract from its possible validity, but rather suggest that the reins need to be held tight.

Thanks for the post,

Tony.

Thanks brother, this is an important thread IMO.....(remember the Drake fiasco?)

It's things like this that severely distract us from the real time things that are more important. Not to say that this Mandela type of thing couldn't happen, but, there are some major things happening right now in the world that we should be more aware of....

Even if this Mandela thing was real, it really doesn't change all that much when it comes to our everyday survival and routine.....unless you let it ;)

[skyflower]

Here's another one ...those hot dogs....Oscar Meyer. This one had a song, and it literally forced me to memorize it since I heard it so many times.....but now it's Mayer ?

G'day skyflower,

aNddW2xmZp8

You memorised that song?...

:idea: My only explanation is that perhaps for years you remembered a tune, but tunes do not have subtitles when the jingle is running in our mind. You may have assigned an incorrect spelling to the brand yourself.

How does that sound?

Tony

LOL No Heyoka ...that was before I was born... I meant the other song...." My Bologna has a first name , and it's O-s-c-a-r, My Bologna has a second name and it's M-e-y-e-r......"
I guess I should have said the Bologna song. Lol. I can't blame it for lack of subtitles or memory lapse...that's how I knew this song. mEyer. :sherlock:

Btw, I think this whole thing is fun. It doesn't distract me from important issues.
Most of the time it just validates how malleable Our reality is in more ways than one. Oh and it helps me stay cool when things I distinctly remember throwing away show up like I never did. :dancing:

[Heyoka_11]

LOL No Heyoka ...that was before I was born...

Oh Dear!...It wasn't before I was born http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sick/walking-stick.gif


I meant the other song...." My Bologna has a first name , and it's O-s-c-a-r, My Bologna has a second name and it's M-e-y-e-r......" I guess I should have said the Bologna song.

Then you'd be referring to this one...

rmPRHJd3uHI

I think I preferred the first one. Marvelous that we managed to clear that one up youngster.


Btw, I think this whole thing is fun.

Now that's the spirit!
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/drink/drinking-red-wine.gif