Is Teal Swan a hoaxer?

[AutumnW]

I started a thread about T. Swan in the known hoax category after doing a couple of days worth of research on her.

One of the responders to that thread suggested as she isn't a known hoaxer, the question should not be in that category. So I am placing it here and asking again, is she legit?

From what I have read about her own rendition of her past, which appears to be provably false, I feel there is something 'off' about her. Further to that, I think anyone who outs a self styled guru who has left what appears to be a trail of human wreckage, in their wake, is performing a public service.

I will gladly provide links when I am using my lap top.

[WhiteLove]

I started a thread about T. Swan in the known hoax category after doing a couple of days worth of research on her.

One of the responders to that thread suggested as she isn't a known hoaxer, the question should not be in that category. So I am placing it here and asking again, is she legit?

From what I have read about her own rendition of her past, which appears to be provably false, I feel there is something 'off' about her. Further to that, I think anyone who outs a self styled guru who has left what appears to be a trail of human wreckage, in their wake, is performing a public service.

I will gladly provide links when I am using my lap top.

My view is that she has done some deep studies on her own and that she presents these findings as truths. From her perspective some of these ideas might have some degree of truth, but it is of course very difficult to say how true they are in a greater perspective. What one can say is that as a philosopher she is at a pretty advanced level because of the amount and complexity involved in all of the topics she has discussed in her YouTube videos, these videos are also expressed quite clearly and elegantly. So there is in that way definitely a big thinker behind it. At the same time, that complexity is also more tricky "to get right", therefore yes probably some of it is not true or not entirely true...

The problem is of course when other thinkers end up with different conclusions. For instance "the law of attraction" I find to be a bit in conflict with "the law of love" and among the two I find from own personal experience that "the law of love" is at a more profound level of truth. If that is the case, that does not mean her focus on "the law of attraction" is false, but it highlights that as thinkers we all have much to learn and that we are incomplete relative to the amount of intelligence we are observing, there always seems to be pieces that can be added that slightly change and give new meanings and level of truths to things.

"The law of love" I have pretty recently started looking more closely into. At this precise moment in time I am looking at a theory that I am forming in which one's life consists of a number of parallel threads, each thread having a great love plan. When we are using our free will, thread switches occur. But no matter what the thread switches are, the common theme/manifestations seem to be someone or something that I am loving unconditionally. Based on this experience/observation and when I add to this everything else I've experienced/observed, I have moved my focus to "the law of love" as a concept I want to research and discover more...

"Unconditional love", "free will" and "absolute truth" are in my world important puzzle pieces I am playing with when trying to describe existence. If you for instance at a very deep level experience "unconditional love" and you are not aware of that truth, God is. There is this great awareness present in creation that orchestrates extremely intelligently based in extreme level of truth, is my current understanding. And the thread switches are based in the union, not based in your own free will/choices only because who/what you love unconditionally can use free will to accept or reject that love. The thread switches are instant it appears and I am now looking into whether prayers are thread switches, prayers express free will.

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....:facepalm:

[giovonni]

I started a thread about T. Swan in the known hoax category after doing a couple of days worth of research on her.

One of the responders to that thread suggested as she isn't a known hoaxer, the question should not be in that category. So I am placing it here and asking again, is she legit?

From what I have read about her own rendition of her past, which appears to be provably false, I feel there is something 'off' about her. Further to that, I think anyone who outs a self styled guru who has left what appears to be a trail of human wreckage, in their wake, is performing a public service.

I will gladly provide links when I am using my lap top.

While I don't necessarily agree with everything she offers up as advice ... I do personally find her talks useful and have been listening and posting her videos for years ... Adding no one should never look to any thing an alternative guru says - as anything other than an optional resource for inquiring insightful information in forming ones own mind.

So where's the links supporting your above statement ?

[WhiteLove]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....:facepalm:

I don't know. When I've studied I've noticed that "free will" appears to be "ours" to a certain point. There are for instance examples when people have had a NDE and have not been able to enter into the light although "the free will" has desired so. The reason: "It's not your time yet, there is a plan that needs to unfold". In other words, the master plan seems to have priority over the free will of beings and I think what it might mean is that "unconditional love on the collective level" has priority over "free will at the individual level". It might be that "the law of love" is "above" "the law of free will"... That's all I can comment at this time, this is quite new stuff to me and I might be wrong, so this is mostly just sharing what I am thinking... There are quite a lot of NDE cases where beings have experienced that the time is not yet but that in many cases it has also been up to the individual to decide, so both cases seem to take place, pre-mature deaths that must be reversed, as well as deaths were it is up to the individual to decide. All of this suggests that there is some kind of super intelligent master plan unfolding that aligns to certain laws in creation.

[Wind]

I would be careful about judging a person without truly knowing them. There's a lot hearsay online these days. I used to once watch Teal, but not anymore. Perhaps she was not my cup of tea, but I can usually sense what's the right thing for me and what's not or what resonates and what does not, I'm not saying it is the person delaying the message. Although there are many known and unknown hoaxers out there.

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for sharing your insights. Guess I'm just trying to connect all the dots of the things I have learned about & also experienced in my lifetime! I think you are right about the "master plan". Even though I am in a very difficult situation, I keep getting the feeling that "all is well" & I just have to live through whatever is coming next. :Angel:

[waves]

I would be careful about judging a person without truly knowing them.....

Including not judging anyone and their internet ramblings as as trustworthy, honest and/or their own, right?

http://s33.postimg.org/6wrspbbi7/2014_10_14_0047.png

Despite agreeing with a lot of what she's lectured on in front of her fluffy new-agey backdrops, I have listened to a number of interviews with people who have been one of her many roommates and if true, it appears she does not live her own advice to a disturbing extent as an extremely demanding, controlling person and very disinterested/neglectful mother. Her own backstory is one of childhood abuse and the typical conditions for an MKUltra victim, therefore possibly an ongoing pawn for her controllers. If all true, I'm not sure what the point of the agenda with her is and/or where the info/disinfo line is.

[IChingUChing]

Haven't posted for ages but thought the following 2 interviews with Teal Swan might be useful to those interested in hearing her tell her life story.

My 10 cents for what it's worth (which is 10 cents:idea:) - she's genuine.

Enjoy the interviews should you watch them!

First one is from Buzzsaw with Sean Stone where they talk about her childhood experiences of satanic abuse and spiritual development.

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The second interview is from BATGAP which is a series of interviews with spiritually awakening people. Rick Archer questions Teal about her life and spirituality:

_3AChOcKKu8

[Akasha]

..... "the law of attraction" I find to be a bit in conflict with "the law of love" and among the two I find from own personal experience that "the law of love" is at a more profound level of truth....

Interesting that you mention that as she uploaded the following video just last week:

V6xCjY39_t0

[AutumnW]

Wind, I think that sometimes we have to draw a line or 'judge,' the credibility of those professing to be enlightened. If it turns out the individual has made up a huge whopper or two to gain attention and help to commercialize a body of knowledge that is already out there, people should be forewarned.

If it turns out the person has manipulated others in very self serving manner -- and that information is available online, we should heed it. We don't have to believe it, because those antagonistic to her may also have an agenda. Nevertheless, we should pay attention.

I am interested in individuals who claim enlightenment, gain guru status and then start to push an ideology that is anything but compassionate, if viewed more closely.

We live in pre-fascist times and it isn't just radical Christians who, on the surface, appear loving. Fascist ideology pervades some modern spiritual beliefs, as well.

The 'laws of attraction,' and 'you create your own reality,' are compelling because they are partially true. We feel that through our own experience. But if externalities, (for lack of a better word), that we have zero control over, aren't factored in we can overlook suffering that needs a strong application of compassion, not a lecture about being our own agents of change. We are not the sole masters of our destiny.

I am very interested and critical of all gurus who may say a million wise things but default to the ,"masters of our destiny," idea. It is, practically speaking, wrong. And politically speaking, very dangerous.

[AutumnW]

I would be careful about judging a person without truly knowing them.....

Including not judging anyone and their internet ramblings as as trustworthy, honest and/or their own, right?

http://s33.postimg.org/6wrspbbi7/2014_10_14_0047.png

Despite agreeing with a lot of what she's lectured on in front of her fluffy new-agey backdrops, I have listened to a number of interviews with people who have been one of her many roommates and if true, it appears she does not live her own advice to a disturbing extent as an extremely demanding, controlling person and very disinterested/neglectful mother. Her own backstory is one of childhood abuse and the typical conditions for an MKUltra victim, therefore possibly an ongoing pawn for her controllers. If all true, I'm not sure what the point of the agenda with her is and/or where the info/disinfo line is.

Waves, if you could link to her former husband and room mate's blogs, it would be helpful. I can't link with my iPad. Not techno-savvy at all!

[AutumnW]

As far as the Satanic abuse she suffered as a child, I have read enough about what appears to be her actual past now, to dismiss this as a fabrication.

[Akasha]

.....The 'laws of attraction,' and 'you create your own reality,' are compelling because they are partially true. We feel that through our own experience. But if externalities, (for lack of a better word), that we have zero control over, aren't factored in we can overlook suffering that needs a strong application of compassion, not a lecture about being our own agents of change. We are not the sole masters of our destiny.....

I'd strongly recommend suspending your skepticism of her now and listen to the video I just posted. It may just change your perception of her, but maybe not - who knows?

Personally the way she breaks it down really resonates with my own experiences of what appeared at the time to be extremely negative circumstances, in fact the very definition of hell as my mind perceived such a concept when i was going through the experience (13 months of being locked up and drugged up in a psychiatric hospital over a period of 4 years), but once I began to grasp exactly what she describes, it turned into the most profound and invaluable experience of my life so far.

She may have a past, we all do, but in my opinion, now, at this moment in time, she is spot on.

[AutumnW]

..... "the law of attraction" I find to be a bit in conflict with "the law of love" and among the two I find from own personal experience that "the law of love" is at a more profound level of truth....

Interesting that you mention that as she uploaded the following video just last week:

V6xCjY39_t0

"In the Law of Attraction universe you can only interact with those who you are mirroring?" So if someone is antagonistic to her, for example, or say me or you, it is because we are the same?

We are going to have personality clashes with those who share negative personality traits with us. That's a given. But we only interact with people who mirror us and vice versa? Really? So those who have suffered at the hands of a rapist, murderer, or politically corrupt regime, should immediately start working on themselves so they will mirror more positive experiences?

Wrong, politically dangerous. Absolves bullies of responsibility, just for starters.

[Wind]

Wind, I think that sometimes we have to draw a line or 'judge,' the credibility of those professing to be enlightened. If it turns out the individual has made up a huge whopper or two to gain attention and help to commercialize a body of knowledge that is already out there, people should be forewarned.

If it turns out the person has manipulated others in very self serving manner -- and that information is available online, we should heed it. We don't have to believe it, because those antagonistic to her may also have an agenda. Nevertheless, we should pay attention.

I do agree and I usually tend to follow what kind of track records people have. I don't blindly follow anyone and I use my gut feelings a lot. I know some things about Teal's past, but don't really know how she is as a person so I haven't formed any conclusive opinion about her. I just don't watch her stuff, because it doesn't feel like the thing I should be observing. Nor am I charmed by her looks or annoyed by them.

For example, I used to follow people like David Wilcock... But no more for I think that he is not pushing out good quality information and if he does know that it means he is truly insincere, though it doesn't necessarily mean that he would be a bad person. He could be used too. Sadly some so called spiritual people, especially in leader positions do have self-serving agendas and that's why caution is required.

[AutumnW]

.....The 'laws of attraction,' and 'you create your own reality,' are compelling because they are partially true. We feel that through our own experience. But if externalities, (for lack of a better word), that we have zero control over, aren't factored in we can overlook suffering that needs a strong application of compassion, not a lecture about being our own agents of change. We are not the sole masters of our destiny.....

I'd strongly recommend suspending your skepticism of her now and listen to the video I just posted. It may just change your perception of her, but maybe not - who knows?

Personally the way she breaks it down really resonates with my own experiences of what appeared at the time to be extremely negative circumstances, in fact the very definition of hell as my mind perceived such a concept when i was going through the experience (13 months of being locked up and drugged up in a psychiatric hospital over a period of 4 years), but once I began to grasp exactly what she describes, it turned into the most profound and invaluable experience of my life so far.

She may have a past, we all do, but in my opinion, now, at this moment in time, she is spot on.

Akasha,

It is great you were able to take, from her message, what applied to your situation and her out of your personal Hell. I have observed people in the grip of psychosis and can see how fear and paranoia can create the very situation people fear.

In a highly emotionally charged realm of a very open mind, the external world does start to melt away, to an extent. In that frame of mind, others do mirror our fear, and act defensively. That can feed elaborate networks of paranoid belief. By virtue of being in a spiritual crisis position we experience synchronicity storms and coincidence carnivals, for lack of better words. A spiritual crisis can very much start to take on aspects of a lucid dream, for some and nightmare for others.

I can see why and how her ideas appealed to you and how encouraging those, in this position, to view what some would call a nervous breakdown -- as more of a spiritual crisis, that can be overcome.

However, any philosophy that fails to take into account that we are also subject to overriding forces we don't control, in the mundane realm, can end up feeding fascist ideology

[Carmody]

hhmmm..

is all I can say, at this time.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Minds change, thankfully.

Today's resonance will not be tomorrow's, for the most part - in most human experience.

therefore, the old axiom of take what you will,and leave the rest. And always live in some form of caution, even minimal caution will do.

do not cling, do not judge, remember to keep moving, after the given time period of picking up and absorbing.

Life is motion and change, anything else is death.

Humans went to planting foods and crops in order to gain physical security and a physical future within bounded terms.

Not making the same mistake in learning, is a key element, as the undercurrent of the avatar, the body and it's hind brain which shapes thought..will..in some way....seek out those defined and perfected unchangeable terms, to commoditize them into a known stability that is unchanging.

In those moments we can find, and hide from our own thoughts (in the depths of the bodily drives)....our frozen deaths.


Those who do not realize such things, due to intellectual speed/capacity, development.. and ties to emotionalism... which may be from their own past and origins/shaping..they can project it on others, project it into the world, as a form of voicing their own security into existence....

I do not find myself faultless in such matters, but I do recognize the complexities.

[RunningDeer]

I would be careful about judging a person without truly knowing them.....

Including not judging anyone and their internet ramblings as as trustworthy, honest and/or their own, right?


http://s33.postimg.org/6wrspbbi7/2014_10_14_0047.png


With respect to the photo only…photos that are cropped or altered to fit someone's agenda makes my spiny-senses tingle. Until I find the original of Teal Bosworth’s modeling days, I'd say the bikini bottom was photoshopped out. (and a bad photoshop at that)

The other is also misleading from LaHuesera’s photobucket (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/LaHuesera/media/Public/selfquoteonbathtub_zpsmjz3xzwn.png.html). If you check the fine print someone used then “Teal Bosworth” copywrite photo from 2004, and altered it - LaVaughn states: (I have blacked out some portions of the image to remain within family-friendly guidelines.) [nudity implied]



Anybody can add a black square to a photo.
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/square_zpsl0rzuyhf.jpg


http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Teal-Bosworth_zpsbde0tciw.jpg


From an article: The "Mormon Satanist" Speaks (http://www.celestialhealing.com/2015/11/the-mormon-satanist-speaks.html) – UPDATED
By LaVaughn

This is one of teal's early self-quoting "memes," from the original Teal Eye site, showing a copyright date of 2004. (I have blacked out some portions of the image to remain within family-friendly guidelines.)

[AutumnW]

Thanks for posting, Running Dear.

[giovonni]

wink/wink ...

Speaking of gurus ... Everyone's got a past ...

Even this guy.

http://www.mkgandhi.org/gphotgallery/1933-1948/images/h1.jpg

[ghostrider]

The plejaren gave a list of hoaxers, and her name did not pop up on the list , so I in leave it up to the individual, we must find truth on our own, atour own pace ...

[Mike Gorman]

I noticed Teal a few years back and I watched a few of her regularly posted videos - the internet enables us to indulge in the human propensity for 'following' self-styled leaders. The cults of personality extend into most areas, we seem to want these people to polarize our interests and beliefs, to be avatars of cultural 'niches'. Perhaps it is a feature of personal development, people from 16-45 or so seem particularly prone; as you get past 50 I believe we become less interested in 'following' and more concerned with assimilating our own perspectives, less liable to idolize; this could be my own onto-genesis however and I'm projecting!

The 'wisdom' Teal dispenses is certainly nothing 'new', or even novel, it sounds like good old fashioned common sense that is just finely tuned to the more abstruse aspects of modern life - I think she is simply a person with a strong personality and range of experiences that have given her a very 'grounded' outlook - if you listen to her you hear highly pragmatic, useful advice, moderation and open minded Skepticism. Really it could be anyone's mother, or grandfather speaking if they were also into 'new age'.

I don't think Teal Swan is a con-artist, but I think she is definitely making the most of modern social media and people's willingness to 'follow', to raise up and glorify - it is after all up to us how we conduct our own lives and what we accept as 'wisdom'. If Teal happens to make a good living off the back of this, well why not, people seem to be getting their money's worth and much of her materials are freely given. Value can be found in the most unlikely of places, as the world goes I think Teal Swan is the least of our worrries.

[Morbid]

as with many other public figures lets see how it works out for her.. i personally know people that were helped by her well worded words of knowledge. she is young and there is plenty of fine-tuning of the message yet to be done.

[11one]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....:facepalm:

i think you can experience the illusion of rejecting that which you already are


and i think she is who she says she is

[delfine]

A lot of things could indicate that she´s even a major hoaxer. According to this info, she has made up all of her past (pretty shocking, to me at least, as I´ve been one of those who gave credence to her): http://www.jessicamystic.com/exposing-teal-scott-teal-swan-a-dangerous-spiritual-speaker.html

[Ernie Nemeth]

Well, well. Naughty, naughty. I've never seen these before. I am not shocked but stunned. I think Paula is right , they look photo-shopped. Too much gossip. Just take the message, decide for yourself, and leave the messenger alone. imo

[Atlas]

See: http://celestialhealing.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-artist-formerly-known-as-teal-scott.html

Warning! Teal Swan is NOT a real spiritual teacher!
ve7uHXwxGcc

[delfine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-MXGrbeIq0

[Akasha]

See: http://celestialhealing.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-artist-formerly-known-as-teal-scott.html

Warning! Teal Swan is NOT a real spiritual teacher!
ve7uHXwxGcc

Granted, she's certainly dug herself a hole regarding claims of being the reincarnation of yadayadayada of the blahtarians........

[jan]

I certainly get a genuine feeling from her and think shes doing a lot of good by speaking out and teaching what she knows. But of course it will meet opposition and envy and whatnot, but i think she is well prepared for dealing with all that. In things like this i find it best to just trust what resonates with our hearts, not over-analyze.

[Pam]

I know this will sound cynical, and it probably is, but I wonder what kind of "following" Teal would have if she was fat, old or ugly? Does her message transcend her physical appeal?

[jan]

I know this will sound cynical, and it probably is, but I wonder what kind of "following" Teal would have if she was fat, old or ugly? Does her message transcend her physical appeal?

We are all born with the qualities best suited to fulfill our soul's true purpose.

[11one]

I think instead of going into her character or past to see if she's a fraud you should go into what she's teaching to see if there's flaws. If there's not, the other things are irrelevant are they not?

[Pam]

I think instead of going into her character or past to see if she's a fraud you should go into what she's teaching to see if there's flaws. If there's not, the other things are irrelevant are they not?


I agree, wholeheartedly. Spiritual teachings should stand on their own. If you can apply the teachings and you feel your life has improved along spiritual lines, really, nothing else should matter.

I would also expect that a spiritual teacher would follow their own teachings and one could look at the "fruits" of that teaching. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect that if someone is teaching spiritual principles that they would have a high level of mastery themselves. Does the life and life style of the spiritual teacher reflect the benefits that I would like to receive by applying the spiritual principles learned from this teacher? Knowing the truth of that teachers' lifestyle might be problematic, however.

[Foxie Loxie]

My only question is, if a person's daily life does not line up with what they are teaching, should I believe them? If it really doesn't "work" for them, why should it work for me?

[Agape]

I know this will sound cynical, and it probably is, but I wonder what kind of "following" Teal would have if she was fat, old or ugly? Does her message transcend her physical appeal?

It's something that occurred to me in connection to this 'topic' but also , unfortunately, something I'm familiar with from life long experience , in the 'spiritual circles' especially.
You may ask ''what's wrong with human body'' . The answer : ''there's always something imperfect about the human body except for when it's naturally young and beautiful''.

Beautiful mind and beautiful body can go together but they may be , and often are, almost polar opposites .

If all the spiritual teachings of the past focused on uncovering 'real values' through your mind as the only tool and advised detachment from this transient lull of corporeality ,
and if they taught equanimity based on physical non-attraction, and gender non-distraction, it was for the best of the meaning of what the 'spiritual truth' have to stand for , themselves and the rest .
Without mind, this body is like soulless dummy . Without life, it does not stay beautiful for long .

It always , practically poses some difficulty at least .. to males but females more I believe , to teach anything of spiritual value if people get too distracted by the looks.

The question is ... how would it be coming out in one of those 'hijabs' instead and is that a real solution to global warming.

[AutumnW]

wink/wink ...

Speaking of gurus ... Everyone's got a past ...

Even this guy.



http://www.mkgandhi.org/gphotgallery/1933-1948/images/h1.jpg

Giovanni,

For sure, we all have a past and shouldn't be held up to intense scrutiny for misdeeds, white lies, falling short of ideal behavior, particularly when we have been under extreme stress. If we are decent people, at core, and are making attempts to improve our understanding of life, people, animals, etc...through the cognitive, by acquiring knowledge, and through the heart, it is all good.

I have to take issue with those who not only don't seem to practice what they preach, but who gain traction through social media by lying in a huge way. And when they leverage the minor fame they gained through lying to manipulate and damage others, in their own social sphere, it should be a red flag.

To my way of thinking, the over emphasis on the individual being responsible for everything that has happened to them, can easily be used to withdraw compassion from others, and to unfairly burden them with blame for circumstances that are out of their control.

In interpersonal relationships, (particularly where there is a power imbalance) blame for bad behavior can be shifted from the one who has the most power on to those who don't. As gurus are usually in the power position in interpersonal relationships, they are afforded a wide latitude for manipulative behavior, through a misuse of their own teachings.

Love, understanding, humility and "do into others as you would have them do into you," should be the starting point that seekers should follow and use as their touchstone. All knowledge and understanding of the heart should flow through these very simple dictates. If not, we are in trouble.

[AutumnW]

I think instead of going into her character or past to see if she's a fraud you should go into what she's teaching to see if there's flaws. If there's not, the other things are irrelevant are they not?

If she is abusing others through manipulative tactics afforded her by using some of her own teachings, while in the power position with others, those specific teachings have to be held up to scrutiny.

[AutumnW]

I know this will sound cynical, and it probably is, but I wonder what kind of "following" Teal would have if she was fat, old or ugly? Does her message transcend her physical appeal?

We are all born with the qualities best suited to fulfill our soul's true purpose.

If a guru is a beautiful woman, looks can be used to leverage power over others as well. Beautiful women have been defaulting to this advantage, for millenia. It is nothing new and not necessarily to be admired. It can be a 'tactic,' not a purpose or necessarily part of a higher calling.

[AutumnW]

I certainly get a genuine feeling from her and think shes doing a lot of good by speaking out and teaching what she knows. But of course it will meet opposition and envy and whatnot, but i think she is well prepared for dealing with all that. In things like this i find it best to just trust what resonates with our hearts, not over-analyze.

She may be well prepared for criticism by being very good at deflecting blame and manipulation. If she, herself, is framing basic curiosity about whether or not she has made up a lot about her past, as being born of envy, it could be part of a pattern of deflecting responsibility for her lies. White lies, no problem. Humongous lies-- problem -- and a big red flag in glowing neon.

[AutumnW]

I started a thread about T. Swan in the known hoax category after doing a couple of days worth of research on her.

One of the responders to that thread suggested as she isn't a known hoaxer, the question should not be in that category. So I am placing it here and asking again, is she legit?

From what I have read about her own rendition of her past, which appears to be provably false, I feel there is something 'off' about her. Further to that, I think anyone who outs a self styled guru who has left what appears to be a trail of human wreckage, in their wake, is performing a public service.

I will gladly provide links when I am using my lap top.

My view is that she has done some deep studies on her own and that she presents these findings as truths. From her perspective some of these ideas might have some degree of truth, but it is of course very difficult to say how true they are in a greater perspective. What one can say is that as a philosopher she is at a pretty advanced level because of the amount and complexity involved in all of the topics she has discussed in her YouTube videos, these videos are also expressed quite clearly and elegantly. So there is in that way definitely a big thinker behind it. At the same time, that complexity is also more tricky "to get right", therefore yes probably some of it is not true or not entirely true...

The problem is of course when other thinkers end up with different conclusions. For instance "the law of attraction" I find to be a bit in conflict with "the law of love" and among the two I find from own personal experience that "the law of love" is at a more profound level of truth. If that is the case, that does not mean her focus on "the law of attraction" is false, but it highlights that as thinkers we all have much to learn and that we are incomplete relative to the amount of intelligence we are observing, there always seems to be pieces that can be added that slightly change and give new meanings and level of truths to things.

"The law of love" I have pretty recently started looking more closely into. At this precise moment in time I am looking at a theory that I am forming in which one's life consists of a number of parallel threads, each thread having a great love plan. When we are using our free will, thread switches occur. But no matter what the thread switches are, the common theme/manifestations seem to be someone or something that I am loving unconditionally. Based on this experience/observation and when I add to this everything else I've experienced/observed, I have moved my focus to "the law of love" as a concept I want to research and discover more...

"Unconditional love", "free will" and "absolute truth" are in my world important puzzle pieces I am playing with when trying to describe existence. If you for instance at a very deep level experience "unconditional love" and you are not aware of that truth, God is. There is this great awareness present in creation that orchestrates extremely intelligently based in extreme level of truth, is my current understanding. And the thread switches are based in the union, not based in your own free will/choices only because who/what you love unconditionally can use free will to accept or reject that love. The thread switches are instant it appears and I am now looking into whether prayers are thread switches, prayers express free will.

My take on this, for what it is worth, is people get very cognitively tangled up, when it comes to the concept of free will.'Freedom', as a concept is fraught with paradox, and that is from a purely philosophical perspective.

When it comes to trying to exercise our free will, in the physical realm, we are up against opposing forces that we must learn to negotiate and compromise with. That is likely the purpose of our souls being born into physical bodies, that require shelter and nourishment.

A simple understanding of our own difficulties in this arena, applied to others, encourages a loving, forgiving and compassionate attitude. It isn't particularly complicated. What is missing for many, is they form theories about ultimate reality and how it might work, particularly with regards freedom, and then try to apply those theories, (worked out from a perspective of detachment, quite often) into their mundane realm.

Although the bedrock of our existence could easily be unconditional love, a misunderstanding or incomplete understanding of the 'freedom' concept can provide an easy explanation for withdrawing love from others. In that way, the bedrock of love, always seeking to leach into our lives from our foundations, is cut off, paved over. Love must trump all. And when this is clearly understood, real freedom follows.

[giovonni]

Greetings AutumnW ...

Please note if you didn't know beforehand - this is not the first thread to cover this topic -
Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75787-Why-Teal-Scott-Swan-and-the-Whole-Spiritual-Movement-is-Dangerous---Video-)

And though I can appreciate some of your points and concerns with Teal ...

The question here that begs to be ask - Have you had any past relationship or dealings with her ?

[AutumnW]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for sharing your insights. Guess I'm just trying to connect all the dots of the things I have learned about & also experienced in my lifetime! I think you are right about the "master plan". Even though I am in a very difficult situation, I keep getting the feeling that "all is well" & I just have to live through whatever is coming next. :Angel:

I am sorry you are having a difficult time. I hope you don't mind me asking -- are you struggling alone? Do you have loving friends helping you, giving you strength?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Greetings AutumnW ...

Please note if you didn't know beforehand - this is not the first thread to cover this topic -
Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75787-Why-Teal-Scott-Swan-and-the-Whole-Spiritual-Movement-is-Dangerous---Video-)

And though I can appreciate some of your points and concerns with Teal ...

The question here that begs to be ask - Have you had any past relationship or dealings with her ?

No, I am impartial, in that regard. My main focus is studying emerging fascist patterns in modern spiritual belief.

[giovonni]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for sharing your insights. Guess I'm just trying to connect all the dots of the things I have learned about & also experienced in my lifetime! I think you are right about the "master plan". Even though I am in a very difficult situation, I keep getting the feeling that "all is well" & I just have to live through whatever is coming next. :Angel:

I am sorry you are having a difficult time. I hope you don't mind me asking -- are you struggling alone? Do you have loving friends helping you, giving you strength?

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Greetings AutumnW ...

Please note if you didn't know beforehand - this is not the first thread to cover this topic -
Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75787-Why-Teal-Scott-Swan-and-the-Whole-Spiritual-Movement-is-Dangerous---Video-)

And though I can appreciate some of your points and concerns with Teal ...

The question here that begs to be ask - Have you had any past relationship or dealings with her ?

No, I am impartial, in that regard. My main focus is studying emerging fascist patterns in modern spiritual belief.


With due respect ...

"Impartial" is kind of being evasive to a general yes or no question/answer -
And to use your selected OP descriptive of Teal - Something appears 'off' with your above response ?

Which prompts me to ask who or what - lead you to focus this thread inquiry particularly and solely on Teal ?

Also while alluding to your mentioned study - I would like to hear more in regards to your premise of there being possible fascist patterns in the modern spiritual community ... Perhaps you could expand more on this ?

[AutumnW]

Giovanni, No, I am impartial means I have no axe to grind with her based on any past relationship.
And as far as studying emerging patterns of fascism in modern spiritual belief -- what would you like me to expand on? Why I became interested in that subject?

A cursory glance at nearly all of my posts on this thread should provide an explanation. I think any belief structure, even loosely constructed ones, can feed fascist sentiment. We can easily see it in the fundamentalist Christian community. But what some people fail to understand, is purveyors of light , love and personal empowerment, actually premised on a kind of spiritual libertarianism, are equally at risk at becoming too focused on:

Personal freedom -- taken to extremes this becomes a new 'ism' and provides a handy excuse to ignore the specific suffering of others. If people believe they choose their own destiny, or create their own reality and take this to extremes, they apply that understanding to people who are labouring under stresses they didn't create...at all. The idea that we are the sole authors of our destiny, is particularly dangerous, because it is partially true. But in order to assess how much power over their lives other people can exercise, we have to engage in analysis of the specifics of their situation. Approaching others through generalizations is at best ineffective and at worst, cruel.

Focus on power -- philosophies that maintain the 'create your own reality' and take it to extremes are focused on power and can become asocial and manipulative.

I could go on, but that's a start.

I come to this forum, not to study or to 'spread the word' but because I find the forum members to be open and intelligent and because I appreciate the information I gathered here, in the past, about some very unsavoury characters who have gained huge followings. There's a variety and diversity of opinion here that's refreshing.

[AutumnW]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....:facepalm:


i think you can experience the illusion of rejecting that which you already are


and i think she is who she says she is

Just curious, I am confused by this response. What does it mean?

[giovonni]

Giovanni, No, I am impartial means I have no axe to grind with her based on any past relationship.
And as far as studying emerging patterns of fascism in modern spiritual belief -- what would you like me to expand on? Why I became interested in that subject?

A cursory glance at nearly all of my posts on this thread should provide an explanation. I think any belief structure, even loosely constructed ones, can feed fascist sentiment. We can easily see it in the fundamentalist Christian community. But what some people fail to understand, is purveyors of light , love and personal empowerment, actually premised on a kind of spiritual libertarianism, are equally at risk at becoming too focused on:

Personal freedom -- taken to extremes this becomes a new 'ism' and provides a handy excuse to ignore the specific suffering of others. If people believe they choose their own destiny, or create their own reality and take this to extremes, they apply that understanding to people who are labouring under stresses they didn't create...at all. The idea that we are the sole authors of our destiny, is particularly dangerous, because it is partially true. But in order to assess how much power over their lives other people can exercise, we have to engage in analysis of the specifics of their situation. Approaching others through generalizations is at best ineffective and at worst, cruel.

Focus on power -- philosophies that maintain the 'create your own reality' and take it to extremes are focused on power and can become asocial and manipulative.

I could go on, but that's a start.

I come to this forum, not to study or to 'spread the word' but because I find the forum members to be open and intelligent and because I appreciate the information I gathered here, in the past, about some very unsavoury characters who have gained huge followings. There's a variety and diversity of opinion here that's refreshing.

hmm ...

I still don't get what all this has to do with Teal, and any negatives deriving from her teachings ?

But on a friendly note to your closing sentence ...

"There's a variety and diversity of opinion here that's refreshing."

Yes Indeedy ... :)

[AutumnW]

Giovanni, one of the ideas that Teal Swan promotes is that everyone we are interacting with is simply mirroring us. Where power balances are equal, this has some truth to it. Also, when interactions become emotionally charged, within an arena of equal power, this has some truth to it.

The danger of this teaching is that outside of interactions between equals, this is not as likely. If someone has power over me either economically,,politically, socially, or is an abusive parent, this doesn't hold true.

It is an extreme rendition of 'creating your own reality,' which carried to extremes, as I mentioned before, is mistaken and can feed fascist impulses through spiritual libertarianism -- which is essentially asocial and can become anti-social. Whole societies can become profoundly narcissistic based around essential untruths like this.

[giovonni]

Giovanni, one of the ideas that Teal Swan promotes is that everyone we are interacting with is simply mirroring us. Where power balances are equal, this has some truth to it. Also, when interactions become emotionally charged, within an arena of equal power, this has some truth to it.


Yes i agree for the most part ... Though not necessary in all personal interactions.


The danger of this teaching is that outside of interactions between equals, this is not as likely. If someone has power over me either economically,,politically, socially, or is an abusive parent, this doesn't hold true.

I note your concerns with these kinds of human social conditional/situations, but it is all part of the systematic reality we are inherently born into. And unfortunately it is something one has to learn to navigate through.


It is an extreme rendition of 'creating your own reality,' which carried to extremes, as I mentioned before, is mistaken and can feed fascist impulses through spiritual libertarianism -- which is essentially asocial and can become anti-social. Whole societies can become profoundly narcissistic based around essential untruths like this.

I am sorry I don't agree with the premise, and one could point to many other current human conditioning's that already lead to such narcissistic social behaviors ...

While it is no secret that Teal draws her teachings from a broad selection of spiritual wisdom (not necessarily her own) ... She obviously has a talented gift of conveying informational lessons almost effortlessly ... Some which I resonate with and some I don't... But that does not denote from others finding insightful help at a particular time and situation in their lives.



So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree in regards to Ms Teal.

Blessings Gio

[11one]

Thanks, WhiteLove, for your insight! Here I am at age 71 STILL trying to figure out exactly what this Love Thing is, or how it operates. Is it really possible to reject unconditional love? If we are all enveloped in this Unconditional Love, it's not possible to reject it, is it? Maybe we just continue along, unaware of its existence?
Still wondering.....:facepalm:


i think you can experience the illusion of rejecting that which you already are


and i think she is who she says she is

Just curious, I am confused by this response. What does it mean?

that lady asked if its possible to reject unconditional love. i responded that it was possible to have the experience of rejecting that which you already are, which is unconditional love

and then i added that i believe teal swan is exactly who she says she is

[11one]

My only question is, if a person's daily life does not line up with what they are teaching, should I believe them? If it really doesn't "work" for them, why should it work for me?

i think we should separate the message from the messenger as much as possible. your heart knows the truth instinctively, it could come from a guru or a death row inmate. whatever inspires you should be what you explore, and through that exploration youll know for sure what resonates with you and what doesnt



I think instead of going into her character or past to see if she's a fraud you should go into what she's teaching to see if there's flaws. If there's not, the other things are irrelevant are they not?

If she is abusing others through manipulative tactics afforded her by using some of her own teachings, while in the power position with others, those specific teachings have to be held up to scrutiny.

oh i dont know about all that. if you have some examples though i would love to hear it

[Jhonie]

For me it is the sound, just doesn't resonate with me.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

It is an extreme rendition of 'creating your own reality,' which carried to extremes, as I mentioned before, is mistaken and can feed fascist impulses through spiritual libertarianism -- which is essentially asocial and can become anti-social. Whole societies can become profoundly narcissistic based around essential untruths like this.


[B]I am sorry I don't agree with the premise, and one could point to many other current human conditioning's that already lead to such narcissistic social behaviors ...

Just to dip in briefly, I believe Autumn is right when he points out "When carried to extremes". Anything "to extremes" is damaging. But the issue he's actually raising here is an interesting and important one. I've talked about it myself, and I believe it's the same thing. It's something I've seen coming to the forefront of 'New Age' philosophies, particularly with some Buddhist constructs, and they 'have the potential' to be quite damaging in the wrong hands (minds). In words other than above, it basically boils down to this:

The idea that we are powerful, sovereign beings is most important, and it is correct. But the danger arises when the ego assimilates this, and fixates on it - it may eventually come to think that its own paradigm IS the sovereign (and only) one that matters. What can happen is that such individuals get tangled up in a narcissistic complex, where other people, the world itself, and all the constructed realities of everyone else's reality, become false (or less important than their own). This breeds a massive distortion of greater reality, their world view and their own humanity, and then all sorts of bad things can happen.

[AutumnW]

Thanks Star Mariner,

And yes, it is the "carried to extremes," aspect that is the problem. Carried to extremes, the message of Christ, somehow ended up in a bloody Crusades, witch hunts and the Inquisition. I've found little, so far, in modern spiritual belief that would lead to anything that dire. If anything, modern spirituality, a reworking of Eastern beliefs, is very hands off, non-interfering, and sorry to say, kind of self absorbed. That makes it less prone to crazy forms of evangelizing.

But therein lies another danger. Modern society already discourages real forms of personal attachment outside of primary marriage and parent sibling relationships. The emphasis on 'detachment' is fitting, in some societies, but isn't a good fit, in our own society. We have a lot of personal living space, compared. We lead atomized lives, often in semi seclusion.

Loneliness is endemic and the loneliness of others is best addressed by stepping outside of ourselves and redirecting focus towards them and away from ourselves -- in other words, being loving and helpful.

Teal Swan claims that there is nothing either right or wrong with suicide, that, if you don't like your life, killing yourself is simply hitting the 'cosmic reset' button. This is an offhand and profoundly narcissistic way of approaching others pain, as a counsellor. Outside of essential euthanasia situations, there is no merit in addressing run away forms of depression, in this way...particularly if the root genesis is early trauma, lonliness and feeling unloved.

Like the velveteen rabbit, those who feel barely alive emotionally, or in a state of profound deflation and anguish should be nurtured back to life. I can think of no other way to state any better what I feel so deeply.

[GloriousPoetry]

Teal Swan has some insight about various topics however I don't really resonate with her teachings for two prime reasons.
1. She doesn't believe in the soul splitting when it comes into this world and therefore does not believe in twin flames. I have experienced an extension of my soul in another human body and so I know it is possible for some us to have our soul experience this. It's one of the most profound experiences you can experience. I'm still learning what this experience means to me in this world.
2. She believes in kundalini energy and the Chakra system which I have also experienced and have arrived at the conclusion that they are not conducive to my soul's natural expression . I have decided to trascend them and declare myself a free and sovereign soul from all false systems imposed on my soul in this world and beyond.

[sheme]

I like and respect her wisdom -I would listen to her insights and intuitively know there is truth there. Some of us are not ready for her wisdom or maybe have grown beyond her take on things. All I need to know is that she means no harm only good.