The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU [Archive] - Page 2 - The Project Avalon Community Forum

araucaria

3rd July 2016, 09:11

Joseph Farrell in his video posted by Giovonni in #241 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91509-The-UK-Brexit-vote-to-leave-the-EU&p=1078327&viewfull=1#post1078327) makes the doubtless valid point that people in high places wanted Britain out of the EU. To be sure, whenever they decided that, all they would have to do was trigger a referendum, because if in these troubled times the electorate is asked to choose between the status quo and something else, the status quo will rightly appear to a majority to be the worse of two evils. This is a powerful statement coming from the British; for if there is one nation in the world you would not expect to give the lie to the old adage ‘better the devil you know than the devil you don’t know’, it is the conservative (with a small c) Brits. But how things proceeded from that point on is rather subtler and less controlled than simply a top-level decision filtering down into effect.

First of all, how many electors voted Leave because they were lied to by Boris Johnson? Very few, I reckon: after all, why would working folks in the industrial heartlands listen to this Etonian toff ruling the roost down in London? They might vote no precisely because he embodies everything they loathe – which is hardly siding with the guy. And how many electors voted Remain because they were lied to by David Cameron? Even less, I think, because they too had their own very good long-standing reasons for judging the EU to be a good thing overall. They did not need the worst prime minister ever to tell them what to think.

Hence we find that, perhaps for the first time, democracy does not have to be totally ruined by demagoguery, as was already being observed in ancient Athens. The demagogues have had their say, yes, and by having a foot in both camps (much in the way banking families like to fight wars) they have cancelled each other out. The voters were left to themselves, discovering that they were maybe not seeing the whole picture, and that between the EU overall doing more harm (mostly to others) than good (to people like themselves), and conversely maybe doing more good to the community than harm to themselves, it was at least time to get moving and do something about the situation. They realized that the EU was a Jekyll-and-Hyde institution (much in the way banking families like to have the doves in their midst run philanthropic organizations that both do great good and cover their hawkish tracks).

Here is a simple example of good and bad going hand in hand in EU affairs. There seems to be a regulation whereby the instructions for any appliance one may purchase across the union have to be in all the official languages (twenty or so); hence for everything from a toaster to a garden strimmer, and hundreds of other items of equipment as well, the old ten-page leaflet has become a hefty tome. Now the EU prides itself on being a powerful vector for advanced environmentalism, somewhat justifiably; yet this one regulation, destroying entire forests to produce paperwork that is known in advance to be 90-95% unwanted and unnecessary, makes a mockery of that claim. It makes the EU by a country mile the single largest supplier of junk ‘mail’. People already get a surfeit of that in their mailboxes.

Here is another example. Under EU regulations (someone correct me if I am wrong), a foodstuff has to be marked as potentially containing traces of nuts merely if anything nutty is also produced at the same factory. The result is that almost everything you will find in a supermarket is/seems/eventually becomes inedible for anyone with a nut allergy. This raises two issues: first, it may go a long way to explaining the spate of nut and other allergies we see nowadays; thirty or forty years ago, I for one didn’t know such a thing existed. Second, it leads to the reasonable idea that supermarket food is not that good for you: better find a healthier alternative – like veganism perhaps? Well, the problem with veganism is that nuts are a staple, providing the protein you no longer get from meat or cheese. If you are allergic to lactose, you can make ‘fauxmage’ (fake cheese/cheeze) with nuts. If you are allergic to both, I guess you might as well shut up shop.

These are the sorts of everyday producers, large and small, of cognitive dissonance that shape public opinion even in areas where immigration is not in evidence. Mass immigration itself is another huge instance of a malfunctioning EU concept. The basic concept is of circulation or mobility, which, as I was saying in an earlier post, is a multidirectional flow of immigration/emigration such as works extremely well in other areas, e.g. the Erasmus programme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_Programme), the European Region Action Scheme for the Mobility of University Students. It works well for the wealthy and/or educated, at the expense of the less fortunate who merely to survive have either to stay put or to emigrate. What this referendum has done, one hopes, is to reproduce the situation in May '68 in France, when the universities came out on strike in support for the workers. This would mean that the educated see themselves no longer as the natural allies of the wealthy but as the natural allies of the underprivileged. What is interesting this time around is that the focus of this movement is not a student leader but a political leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who is just one election away from becoming prime minister. This is why thousands are becoming politicized, flocking to join his party, creating a party of Jeremy Corbyn-type politicians ready to govern once the current Conservative and Blairite infighting has created a sufficient power vacuum. Such a thing might be hugely facilitated if we take one particular warning as not being an idle threat or scare-mongering. It comes not from the politicians but from the City:

The City of London Corporation has sounded another warning over Brexit, this time regarding its impact on the City's role as an international financial centre.

Speaking at a Brexit legal debate, Mark Boleat, policy chairman at the City of London Corporation, said UK-based financial institutions would lose access to the single market, while some would eventually consider relocating elsewhere in the EU.

Thousands of jobs in the City's clearing houses — which sit between two sides of financial trades — could be jeopardised because the EU is unlikely to allow this function to continue outside of its borders.

The UK would also have to adhere to EU regulation without taking part in discussions which set the standards.

Boleat added that the City could be burned when Britain thrashes out a new trade deal with the EU following a Leave vote.

"Financial services are the part of the economy where trade negotiations stand the smallest chance of success," he said.

"There is no doubt that both the UK and the EU would have an interest in securing a trade deal as quickly as possible. However this would matter more to the UK than the EU." http://www.cityam.com/239303/city-of-london-corporation-warns-brexit-threatens-citys-international-standing Apparently these guys have been putting their money behind their mouths; here is another article from the same website, entitled ‘The Remain campaign City fundraiser you're not supposed to know about’:

Are you busy tonight? If not, you clearly weren't considered important enough to be invited to an exclusive and secretive fundraising event for the Remain campaign.

City A.M. understands that the dinner is being held in central London this evening to bolster the coffers of campaigners who are vying to keep Britain in the European Union, and foster closer links with the financial sector.

Britain Stronger in Europe is chaired by former M&S boss Lord Rose, while its treasurer is Roland Rudd, head of top City PR firm Finsbury.

Key City figures were invited to the fundraiser, where tables are understood to have been available for five-figure sums.

Several banking giants have already contributed generously to the Remain campaign. Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are understood to have pledged £500,000 each, while Morgan Stanley has pledged nearly £250,000.

Citigroup became the latest US bank to give to the campaign last week with a six-figure sum.

When asked about the top-dollar bash, a Britain Stronger in Europe spokesperson told City A.M. that they would "not provide a running commentary" on fundraising matters.
http://www.cityam.com/239303/city-of-london-corporation-warns-brexit-threatens-citys-international-standing

Cidersomerset

3rd July 2016, 09:30

Brexit and the Derivatives Time Bomb

By David on 3 July 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Untitled-201.jpg

Brexit and the Derivatives Time Bomb

Posted on July 1, 2016 by Ellen Brown

‘Brexit could trigger a $500 trillion derivatives meltdown, by forcing the EU
to allow insolvent member governments and banks to write down debt. Italy
is in financial crisis and is already petitioning for that concession. How to avoid
collapse of the massive derivatives house of cards? Alternatives are considered.

Sovereign debt – the debt of national governments – has ballooned from $80
trillion to $100 trillion just since 2008. Squeezed governments have been
driven to radical austerity measures, privatizing public assets, slashing public
services, and downsizing work forces in a futile attempt to balance national
budgets. But the debt overhang just continues to grow.’

Read more: Brexit and the Derivatives Time Bomb

https://ellenbrown.com/2016/07/01/brexit-and-the-derivatives-time-bomb/

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The real reason the permanent political class is trying to topple Jeremy Corbyn

By David on 3 July 2016 GMT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.thecanary.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/12042109_826346997478055_1656250702_n.jpg

The real reason the permanent political class is trying to topple Jeremy Corbyn
July 2nd, 2016 Kerry-anne Mendoza Kerry-anne Mendoza

‘The astonishing scenes of the last week in UK politics have seen the figureheads of
the establishment media and politics go to war with Jeremy Corbyn. This is because
the permanent political class is freaking out over Corbyn’s rising popularity among
formerly disillusioned voters, and how that imperils their grip on power. Here is how.

Over with the Labour establishment, they tried to halt Corbyn’s rise from the get-
go. Remember the purge, scaremongering and refusal to work with a Corbyn front bench?

The reason Labour had a new leadership election process last time round, was the
result of the parliamentary Labour Party and the NEC long term efforts to diminish
the power of Trade Unions. By widening the vote to Labour voters, and quieting the
voice of Trade Unions, the Blairite factions of the party gambled on those new
voters being to the right of the Unions.

But they got a shock.’

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/02/the-real-reason-the-permanent-political-class-is-trying-to-topple-jeremy-corbyn/

sheme

3rd July 2016, 16:25

Why would the Cameron tell Corbyn to go- if Corbyn was really that unelectable a non starter, one would see Corbyns intransigence as a gift for the present government. Strange behaviour.

161803398

3rd July 2016, 23:16

xMuUEd6w54E

giovonni

4th July 2016, 03:12

will share this here ...

New World Order Revolution & War on Free Thought

Sean Stone with James Perloff

"The New World Order conspiracy to enslave humanity, the revolution against it, and the fight for free thought against media lies and government manipulation is explored with author James Perloff. The Brexit vote, as well as BBC 9/11 lies, the rush to judgement on the Orlando shooting, and the removal of spirituality from society by those in power is all revealed. Is evolution just a lie to promote an agenda of political overlords? Will we all be micro-chipped and tracked by a totalitarian state in the near future? Take a look at the big picture in this uncensored discussion hosted by Sean Stone, on Buzzsaw."

GUEST BIO:
"James Perloff is the author of several books, including: TRUTH IS A LONELY WARRIOR, TORNADO IN A JUNKYARD, THE CASE AGAINST DARWIN, and THE SHADOWS OF POWER."

Website: https://jamesperloff.com/

EPISODE BREAKDOWN:
00:01 Welcoming James Perloff to Buzzsaw.
00:47 Is the Brexit a revolt against the New World Order?
03:12 Synergy between the New World Order and the British empire.
06:12 The council on foreign relations revealed.
09:39 An argument against the UN form of world government.
12:39 All-powerful states, using false political dialectics to divide and conquer.
15:30 What does the future look like? The surveillance state; chipping everyone.
18:16 A personal account of immunization.
23:42 Catalyst to write THE SHADOWS OF POWER--making sense of history.
27:12 The media echo chamber conspiracy--BBC 9/11 coverage, and getting the story straight on the Orlando shooting.
31:44 Validation of the “conspiracy theorists,” and modern ‘newspeak.’
34:15 The burden of proof for spirituality and Darwinism.
39:07 Man as an animal? The spiritual battle.
40:23 The revolution to come.

Published on Jul 3, 2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmJ3nx7r9pQ&feature=em-uploademail

Franny

4th July 2016, 05:02

Just came across this graphic of few words. Cabbages may not be the only reason to leave the EU but I like it.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/attach/jpg.gif

Ewan

4th July 2016, 10:10

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/still-iraq-war-stupid/

No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit. So why are the Blairites moving against Corbyn now, with such precipitate haste?

The answer is the Chilcot Report. It is only a fortnight away, and though its form will be concealed by thick layers of establishment whitewash, the basic contours of Blair’s lies will still be visible beneath. Corbyn had deferred to Blairite pressure not to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for the Iraq War until Chilcot is published.

For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status.

Yes, they are that nuts.

If the fault line for the Tories is Europe, for Labour it is the Middle East. Those opposing Corbyn are defined by their enthusiasm for bombing campaigns that kill Muslim children. And not only by the UK. Both of the first two to go, Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander, are hardline supporters of Israel.

This was Benn the week before his celebrated advocacy of bombing Syria:

Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn told a Labour Friends of Israel (LFI) lunch yesterday that relations with Israel must be based on cooperation and rejected attempts to isolate the country.

Addressing senior party figures in Westminster, Benn praised Israel for its “progressive spirit, vibrant democracy, strong welfare state, thriving free press and independent judiciary.” He also called Israel “an economic giant, a high-tech centre, second only to the United States. A land of innovation and entrepreneurship, venture capital and graduates, private and public enterprise.”

Consequently, said Benn, “Our future relations must be built on cooperation and engagement, not isolation of Israel. We must take on those who seek to delegitimise the state of Israel or question its right to exist.”

Heidi Alexander actually signed, as a 2015 parliamentary candidate, the “We Believe in Israel” charter, the provisions of which state there must be no boycotts of Israel, and Israel must not be described as an apartheid state.

This fault line is very well defined. The manufactured row about “anti-Semitism” in the Labour Party shows exactly the same split. In my researches, 100% of those who have promoted accusations of anti-Semitism were supporters of the Iraq War and/or had demonstrable links to professional pro-Israel lobby groups. 100% of those accused of anti-Semitism were active opponents of the Iraq War. Never underestimate the Blairite fury at being shown not just to be liars but to be wrong. Iraq is their Achilles heel and they are extremely touchy about it.

No rational person would believe Brexit was Jeremy Corbyn’s fault. No rational person would believe that now is a good moment for the Labour Party to tear itself apart. Extraordinarily, the timing is determined by Chilcot.

A video from last year.. Jeremy Corbyn addresses the banking elite, the causes of our recession and outlines his future for Britain. Why haven't we seen this on mainstream media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivfDnt8bEWc

I can't help but like they guy, despite unease at his membership of The Fabian Society.

Cidersomerset

4th July 2016, 13:22

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

UKIP leader Nigel Farage stands down
1 hour ago

Nigel Farage says he is standing down as leader of the UK Independence Party.

Mr Farage said his "political ambition has been achieved" with the UK having
voted to leave the EU.

He said the party was in a "pretty good place" and said he would not change
his mind about quitting as he did after the 2015 general election.

Leading UKIP was "tough at times" but "all worth it" said Mr Farage, who is
also an MEP. He added that the UK needed a "Brexit prime minister".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468...short vid on link

=================================================

FULL SPEECH : UKIP Leader Nigel Farage Stands Down : Nigel Farage Resigns - UK Brexit Campaigner

1ySyzdWkPhE

Published on 4 Jul 2016

Watch Nigel Farage announces his annual resignation

Enola

4th July 2016, 16:23

What about this "Robots could replace low-skilled migrant workers" stuff? (?)

Violet

5th July 2016, 09:37

Robots could replace anyone like that. Link to the full article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3673913/Robots-replace-low-skilled-migrant-workers-Think-tank-report-highlights-agriculture-food-services-areas-growth-automation.html).

Germany, in May/June, moved a technical branch (don't remember the exact industry) from China back to Germany. When I heard that, I interpreted it as a possible future trend of countries realising they also have to keep and create local jobs for local people. In reality Germany had developed new robotics that could do the job for even cheaper than the Chinese...

Unemployment rates tend to be dramatically linked to (the lack of) education levels more than they are to the destructive automisation of modern industry. The latter, as opposed to the former (esp. when applied to migrants), would gain little to no political support for the agenda now run.

norman

5th July 2016, 11:54

http://i2.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11564245.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/charlotte.jpg

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/charlotte-church-best-response-nigel-11564132

KiwiElf

5th July 2016, 12:08

http://i2.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11564245.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/charlotte.jpg

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/charlotte-church-best-response-nigel-11564132

And to balance that up...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/charlotte-church-nigel-farage_uk_577b55d8e4b073366f0f8951

Hervé

5th July 2016, 14:29

Yanis Varoufakis on the European Constituion, Economic Disintegration and Orwellianism
(http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45019.htm)
Information Clearing House (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45019.htm) 03 Jul 2016 02:50 UTC

Video: Published on Jun 30, 2016
RoT0LsrB840

In this video the former finance minister of Greece and founder of DiEM25 (Democracy in Europe Movement 2025), Yanis Varoufakis, provides us an insight into why the European constitution does not represent the people of Europe and lacks substance. He also talks about disintegration of the European Union, what forces are driving its demise and how Orwellian language is used to hide this.

- Do we have a constitution that represents the voice of the European people?
- Could the EU disintegrate in the near future?
- What are the observerations that are pointing towards a disentigrating European Union?
- Is Orwellianism being employed to deceive the population?

These questions and more are addressed in this video.

Click for Spanish (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=es&a=http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/), German (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=de&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearinghouse.info%2F), Dutch (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=nl&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearinghouse.info%2F), Danish (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=da&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearinghouse.info%2F), French (http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=en&to=fr&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informationclearinghouse.info%2F),
translation- Note- Translation may take a moment to load.

Cidersomerset

5th July 2016, 16:19

This is amusing former conservative 'big wig' and Bilderberger Ken Clarks
unguarded comments on the leadership runners & riders......

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

xAk0WONgv6k

read more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36718454

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http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Conservative leadership race: First round of voting under way

2 hours ago

Short vid on link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36709218

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http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Tory leadership: Theresa May tops first vote but Liam Fox out

5 minutes ago
From the section UK Politics

Home Secretary Theresa May has won the first round of voting in the contest to
replace David Cameron as the next Conservative leader and prime minister.

Mrs May, who began the race as the frontrunner, got 165 votes. Minister Andrea
Leadsom came second with 66.

Michael Gove got 48 votes and Stephen Crabb 34. Liam Fox is eliminated from the
race, coming last with 16 votes.

Party members will choose from the two backed by most Tory MPs, with the winner
due to be named on 9 September.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196

Cidersomerset

5th July 2016, 16:24

What about this "Robots could replace low-skilled migrant workers" stuff? (?)

This is something I have been thinking for years reading various articles and future
concepts and robotics , industrial , military and social is already having an effect on
humans. If jobs are to be replaced by automation it would be ok if the profits are
redistributed to the populace of whatever country it is displacing people, if not a
stronger 'luddite' movement will emerge and conflict or repressive measures will be
a problem in the near future....

This will not be a problem if the world population is drastically reduced as some
speculate. I watched this vid the other day and many similar ones over the last
few decades. The future is almost upon us ?

Rolls-Royce future shore control centre

vg0A9Ve7SxE

Cidersomerset

7th July 2016, 09:10

Has Brexit triggered an anti-democractic 'Color Revolution'?

By David on 7 July 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/david-cameron-corbyn-main.jpg

‘The country’s fate was, ever so briefly, put in the hands of the people. They were being tasked
with voting on an issue that could destroy trade agreements set to make many multi-national
companies billions of dollars, an issue that poses a direct threat to America’s financial and Imperial
interests, an issue that is an existential threat to NATO itself.

You can’t leave that to chance.

The people must be controlled. They are pressured and coerced by the media, scared by their leaders
and gently instructed by the Empire.

…but they don’t listen. They vote the wrong way, and in such numbers that the usual checks and
balances, all the little tweaks in the process, and lost ballots and “accidents” STILL don’t swing the vote.’

Read more: Has Brexit triggered an anti-democractic ‘Color Revolution‘?

https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/04/has-brexit-triggered-an-anti-democractic-color-revolution/

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Schengen is Dead? MEPs vote to bring back border controls

By David on 7 July 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/EU-flag-686697.jpg

MEP’s in Brussels have voted overwhelmingly to being back border controls
to restrict the free movement of migrants.

The border control agency Frontex will be replaced by a new organisation, the
European Border and Coastguard agency which will be given increased powers.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/page/express_logo.png

END OF SCHENGEN? MEPs vote to bring BACK border controls as free movement FAILS

EUROPEAN Union (EU) members have voted overwhelmingly to bring back border
controls in a blow to the Schengen free movement agreement.

By Alix Culbertson
PUBLISHED: 05:10, Thu, Jul 7, 2016 | UPDATED: 07:53, Thu, Jul 7, 2016

The re-introduction of border controls is bizarrely being trumpeted as a victory for
the EU, despite the Schengen agreement being seen as one of the bloc’s success stories.

EU rapporteur, Artis Pabrics, said: "The European Border and Coast Guard Regulation
will ensure that the EU external borders are safer and better managed.

“This is not a silver bullet that can solve the migration crisis that the EU is facing today
or fully restore trust in the Schengen area, but it is very much needed first step.”

Read more: Schengen is Dead? MEPs vote to bring back border controls

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/686697/European-Union-Schengen-zone-migrant-crisis-immigration-Frontex

apokalypse

7th July 2016, 11:20

Robots could replace anyone like that. Link to the full article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3673913/Robots-replace-low-skilled-migrant-workers-Think-tank-report-highlights-agriculture-food-services-areas-growth-automation.html).

Germany, in May/June, moved a technical branch (don't remember the exact industry) from China back to Germany. When I heard that, I interpreted it as a possible future trend of countries realizing they also have to keep and create local jobs for local people. In reality Germany had developed new robotics that could do the job for even cheaper than the Chinese...

Unemployment rates tend to be dramatically linked to (the lack of) education levels more than they are to the destructive automisation of modern industry. The latter, as opposed to the former (esp. when applied to migrants), would gain little to no political support for the agenda now run.

i have said about this of automation for years but many people doesn't consider important...

Cidersomerset

7th July 2016, 18:59

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Theresa May v Andrea Leadsom to be next prime minister

1 hour ago

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/14B19/production/_90316748_mayleadsom.jpg

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8AC2/production/_90322553_cons_leader_vote_results2nd.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36737426

Cidersomerset

7th July 2016, 19:13

Keiser Report: Jumping Brexit Ship (E937)

fbh3rndGDN8

Published on 7 Jul 2016

Check Keiser Report website for more: http://www.maxkeiser.com/
In this episode of the Keiser Report from Washington DC, Max and Stacy
discuss the threats to the global financial system posed by Deutsche Bank
and all Italian banks. In the second half, Max interviews Rob Kirby of Kirby
Analytics about Deutsche Bank’s massive derivatives book.

meat suit

8th July 2016, 07:03

UK troops to take on Nato duties in Poland and Estonia

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36739781

I am reading this as an attempt to use the NATO route to repair european relations...

giovonni

11th July 2016, 01:30

a look at both sides ...

EU subsidies in jeopardy for county that voted for Brexit

From PBS

"Fishing, farming and tourism are three of the main industries in Cornwall, England - all of them seasonal and at the mercy of the temperamental English weather. That’s partly why the region has, for decades, been dependent on support, including subsidies by the European Union. Yet 56 percent of residents voted to leave the EU during last month's historic Brexit referendum."

Published on Jul 10, 2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9IJ6TzawKk

avid

11th July 2016, 03:38

The Duchy of Cornwall is a private estate, set up many years ago to provide an income for the eldest son of the monarch, the Duke of Cornwall.
The profits from farming, property ownership etc annually average £20million into the pocket of the Duke (Prince Charles). Over the years, he has amassed a vast fortune.

Perhaps it's payback time for the locals, as Charles doesn't need all that money.
2016 Annual Report and accounts here (http://duchyofcornwall.org/assets/images/Duchy%20ARA%202016.pdf).

Cidersomerset

11th July 2016, 08:52

Brexit vote paves way for federal union to save UK, says all-party group

By David on 11 July 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/mapweb-713x1024.jpg

INDEPENDENT..

Cross-party group proposes reform to stop impending break-up of UK over Brexit

The group says the Westminster parliament should become voluntary for the UK's
consituent countries

Jon Stone

The governance of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be
reinvented within a new voluntary union in a bid to save the UK from
disintegration, an independent all-party group of experts will argue this week.

The Constitution Reform Group, convened by former Conservative cabinet
minister Lord Salisbury, is to make the the case for radical constitutional
change in the UK by claiming the need has been boosted by the vote to
leave the European Union.

Read more: Brexit vote paves way for federal union to save UK, says all-party group

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/federal-uk-union-brexit-cross-party-group-says-lord-sailsbury-a7129781.html

Cidersomerset

11th July 2016, 11:18

With UK politics upside down , May puts in bid for Labour leadership....LOL

She seems a bit confused which party she is in.... As the former 'Eton' elites
would say " Workers , Workers...Who are they ? "

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Theresa May vows to put Conservatives 'at service' of working people

7 minutes ago

short vid on link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36760953

Theresa May has promised to put workers on the boards of major
firms and curb excess corporate pay, as she starts her campaign
to be Tory leader and PM.

The home secretary vowed to put the Conservative Party "at the
service" of working people.

Mrs May, who campaigned to stay in the EU, also said: "Brexit means
Brexit and we're going to make a success of it."

Party members will choose between Mrs May and energy minister
Andrea Leadsom in a nationwide leadership vote.

In her speech, Mrs May said of the referendum result: "Brexit means
Brexit and we're going to make a success of it," adding that there
would be "no attempt to rejoin [the EU] by the back door".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36760953

Cidersomerset

11th July 2016, 16:40

This means Brexit talks should start soon with the EU .....

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Theresa May to succeed Cameron as UK PM on Wednesday 13 / 7 / 16

w4rewkj9N10

David Cameron announces his departure date

Theresa May is to become the UK's prime minister on Wednesday evening - after
David Cameron announced he would quit after Prime Minister's Questions.
Speaking outside 10 Downing Street, Mr Cameron said he would offer his
resignation to the Queen on Wednesday afternoon at Buckingham Palace.
Mrs May's only rival to succeed Mr Cameron as Conservative leader, Andrea
Leadsom, pulled out earlier on Monday.

Mr Cameron, PM since 2010, decided to quit after the UK's Brexit vote.
◾Rolling text and video coverage of developments
◾The David Cameron story
◾A profile of the next UK prime minister: Theresa May
◾Laura Kuenssberg: Why Leadsom decided to quit
◾A profile of Andrea Leadsom, who has quit contest

In a brief statement outside No 10, Mr Cameron said Mrs Leadsom had made
"absolutely the right decision" to stand aside and that he was "delighted" Mrs
May, the home secretary, was to succeed him.

He said a "prolonged period of transition" was not necessary, and added: "So
tomorrow I will chair my last cabinet meeting. On Wednesday I will attend the
House of Commons for Prime Minister's Questions.

"After that I expect to go the Palace and offer my resignation."

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/17223/production/_90355749_toryleadershipgraphic.png

Read More......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36768148

===================================================

House of Cards....

zQ3MRqHykvs

Published on 11 Jul 2016

July 11 -- Home Secretary Theresa May is on course to succeed David Cameron as
U.K. prime minister after her only opponent in the Tory leadership race, Energy
Minister Andrea Leadsom, dropped out. Bloomberg's Simon Kennedy reports
on "Bloomberg ‹GO›."

===================================================

Related....

Theresa May to succeed Cameron as UK PM on Wednesday 13 / 7 / 16

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91836-Theresa-May-to-succeed-Cameron-as-UK-PM-on-Wednesday-13-7-16

norman

11th July 2016, 16:58

Oh dear, this feels doomy.

giovonni

12th July 2016, 00:55

hmm ...

just 11 days ago ...

Here she comes...

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02375/mayreuters_2375784b.jpg

Theresa May launches Tory leadership bid with pledge to unite country (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/theresa-may-launches-tory-leadership-bid-with-pledge-to-unite-country)

Britain’s next prime minister: Theresa May

RT

"Theresa May will replace David Cameron as Britain’s prime minister. What do we know of the woman who’s heading for 10 Downing Street? In the past, she supported tightening immigration controls and mass surveillance. RT correspondent Polly Boiko reports from London on May’s record, and her reputation among colleagues for “being tough.”

Published on Jul 11, 2016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynKfxWLYyd8

Cidersomerset

12th July 2016, 19:02

EU launches sanctions procedures against Spain & Portugal

TEhZBQeg1X8

Published on 12 Jul 2016

Eurozone finance ministers have decided to start sanctions procedures
against Spain and Portugal for breaching EU spending rules.

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

Cidersomerset

13th July 2016, 18:46

An amusing summery by Mail columnist Peter Hitchin in the wake of the Exit vote....

Peter Hitchens so happy about Brexit

LnCvl2T_o5o

Published on 24 Jun 2016

(24TH JUN 2016) Subscribe for more Brexit content.

Cidersomerset

15th July 2016, 10:55

Blueprint for Brexit: David Davis - Out by 2018

By David on 15 July 2016 GMT Political Manipulation

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DAVE-689605.jpg

In a sign of his plans, David Davis, the new Secretary of State for exiting
the EU, suggested that Britain will demand full control of its borders but
will want to retain access to the European Union’s single market.

Britain would start the process of leaving the European Union by the end
of this year, after consulting with administrations in Scotland, Wales and
Northern Ireland and other business groups and unions, David Davis stated.

Britain will leave the European Union finally by December 2018.

Read more: Blueprint for Brexit: David Davis – Out by 2018

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/689605/Brexit-2018-British-Independence-EU-referendum-brussels-Secretary-David-Davis

Cidersomerset

15th July 2016, 11:42

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.0/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Davis Davis: Trigger Brexit by start of 2017

42 minutes ago

The new minister in charge of Brexit says the UK should be able to formally
trigger its departure from the EU "before or by the start of next year".

David Davis called for a "brisk but measured" approach, with a likely exit
from the EU around December 2018.He said the "first order of business"
should be to strike trade deals with non EU countries.

Meanwhile his predecessor, Oliver Letwin, warned the UK had no trade
negotiators to lead its exit talks.Mr Davis, a longstanding campaigner
for Brexit, was appointed as secretary of state for leaving the EU by
new prime minister Theresa May.

Mrs May has previously said she will not trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon
Treaty, which starts a two-year process of leaving, before the end of 2016.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36802756

Cidersomerset

16th July 2016, 10:05

Anyone for more teeeeeeeeeaaa !!

Theresa May suggests Brexit delay as she says no Article 50 until Scotland gives go-ahead

By David on 16 July 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/download-103.png

Theresa May has indicated that Brexit could be delayed as she said she will not trigger the
formal process for leaving the EU until there is an agreed “UK approach” backed by Scotland.

The Prime Minister on Friday travelled to Scotland to meet Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister,
and discuss plans for Britain’s Brexit negotiation

MAIL ON LINE....

Has Theresa May given Nicola Sturgeon a veto over Brexit? Prime Minister
promises not to trigger Article 50 until the Scots have signed up
New Prime Minister makes Edinburgh first official trip of premiership
Signals importance she is placing on stopping Scotland splitting from UK
Sturgeon says she looks forward to 'constructive' relationship with May

By Jason Groves and Alan Roden for the Daily Mail

Published: 19:24, 14 July 2016 | Updated: 01:56, 16 July 2016

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/16/01/364F377100000578-3690780-image-a-170_1468629580007.jpg

Britain's departure from the European Union could be delayed to appease Scotland, Theresa May indicated yesterday.

Speaking after talks with Nicola Sturgeon in Edinburgh, the Prime Minister
said she would not trigger the formal exit process until she had agreed a
'UK approach' with leaders in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Mrs May's visit to Scotland, just 48 hours into her premiership, was designed
to underline her determination to keep the union together.

Read more: Theresa May suggests Brexit delay as she says no Article 50 until Scotland gives go-ahead

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3690780/Theresa-travels-Edinburgh-meeting-PM-Nicola-Sturgeon-bids-union-together.html

Cidersomerset

17th July 2016, 14:51

Nicola Sturgeon: 'Possible Scotland can veto Brexit' - BBC News

sMm7-md-cTY

Published on 17 Jul 2016

Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has said it is possible Scotland
could remain in the EU when the rest of the UK exits.Asked by Andrew Marr
if there were ways to achieve such an arrangement, Ms Sturgeon said:
"My position is: There might be, we're in unchartered territory."

She said this meant there was an "opportunity to try to think things that
might previously have been unthinkable and shape the future."

Pressed on the question, Ms Sturgeon said: "I don't think that should be
ruled out at this early stage."

Please subscribe HERE http://bit.ly/1rbfUog

Enola

17th July 2016, 15:24

Notice how many female PMs with a Merkel haircut we have now? There could still be more.

Enola

30th July 2016, 12:53

I found this quite interesting.

http://sananda.website/matthew-ward-via-suzy-ward-july-29th/

I haven't looked at channelings in a long time, but things have been getting so crazy lately, I thought I would have a look. What it says about the presidential elections is interesting.

My grandmother also said a while ago she thinks it will be neither Trump or Hillary, and she can be quite receptive.

sheme

30th July 2016, 13:42

Enola

30th July 2016, 14:02

http://sananda.website/adamu-of-pleiades-via-zingdad-june-24th/

Enola

30th July 2016, 14:07

Was I dreaming? I was half asleep this am aware of the radio 4 news in the background 06.30 - I couldn't swear to it, when I thought I heard the newsreader saying something about Jo cox murder- accusations about a Brexit distraction conspiracy- sometimes a few things are reported once only then the government phone up and get the subject boycotted, did anyone else hear this this am?

That's strange, I was just reading this aswell:

"The black nobility, for its part, is fighting desperately to keep their EU fascist government intact. They staged a killing (real or fake is not clear) of pro-EU politician Jo Cox to try to manipulate public opinion towards staying or at least create a plausible cover story for a planned vote stealing of the Brexit referendum due on June 23rd. WDS and Illuminati sources have both previously corresponded with Jo Cox when she was identifying herself as a Rothschild agent. If the British people vote to regain their independence, it will be a huge blow to the black nobility."

Cidersomerset

1st August 2016, 15:11

House of Lords peers hatch plan to block Britain leaving the European Union

By David on 1 August 2016 GMT

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/sitelogos/logo_mol.gif

Unelected peers start House of Lords plot to BLOCK Brexit and force a second referendum
Cross-party group of peers join forces to block UK leaving the EU
Tory Baroness Wheatcroft: 'Imperative we don't press button on Article 50'
She said: 'I think the Lords might actually delay things. I think there's a
majority in the Lords for remaining'

By Martin Robinson, Uk Chief Reporter For Mailonline

Published: 07:08, 1 August 2016 | Updated: 10:40, 1 August 2016

A cross-party group of unelected peers in the House of Lords is plotting to
block Brexit, it was revealed today. Tory Baroness Wheatcroft said she felt
it was 'imperative that we don't press the button on Article 50' - despite the
result of the UK referendum in June.

She says that there are dozens of peers who want to stop, delay or 'revisit'
the result.Speaking to The Times, the former editor in chief of the Wall
Street Journal Europe, said that she hoped delays in the Lords of any potential
Brexit legislation would lead to a second referendum.

A legal challenge on whether the Government can trigger Article 50 without the
prior authorisation of Parliament is set to be heard in the High Court in the autumn.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3717663/Unelected-peers-start-House-Lords-plot-BLOCK-Brexit-force-second-referendum.html#ixzz4G5rjeaBH
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Cidersomerset

1st August 2016, 15:27

Not all Scots want to be in Europe Nicola.....

'Whole world of new possibilities' Scottish fishermen
support Brexit, warn govt against rejoining EU

By David on 1 August 2016 GMT

ejvut0NImsY

Published on 31 Jul 2016
Scottish national federation of fishermen has dubbed Brexit a unique opportunity
for recovering the industry. They believe European management of fisheries has
failed, and doesn't benefit the national industry that has seen almost a 50 percent
decline in employment over the last four decades.

Enola

1st August 2016, 16:41

Every time I see a still of May it makes me jump. She looks possessed to say the least.

KiwiElf

1st August 2016, 17:02

Every time I see a still of May it makes me jump. She looks possessed to say the least.

Of course, she's one of the "club" (you don't think they'd replace Cameron with a good guy/gal, do you? ;))

Enola

1st August 2016, 23:09

I know, but Cameron looks pretty normal, and not like he's living in some kind of frequency-hell.

Cidersomerset

31st August 2016, 14:59

ST Theresa rallying the faithfull to the cause ....

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.4/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

31st aug 2016

3kg4cw3GISk

Theresa May addresses cabinet at start of Brexit meeting

3 hours ago

Prime Minister Theresa May tells the cabinet that they have the opportunity
"to forge a new positive role for the UK in the world" as she starts a special
cabinet meeting at her official Chequers country residence.

The meeting of the cabinet is the first since the summer recess and is focusing
on the way forward for the UK on leaving the European Union.

Cidersomerset

31st August 2016, 20:50

UK will never leave EU: Top British academic

By David on 31 August 2016 GMT

http://217.218.67.233/photo/20160830/67335089-7ae7-4684-991c-96ddf5ffcd24.jpg
British academic Thom Brooks

‘Britain’s departure from the European Union (EU) is impossible considering
the complex process it requires, warns a top British professor, blasting
Brexiteers for not realizing the “sheer enormity” of their decision.

Nearly 52 percent of British voters opted to leave the EU in a referendum on
June 23, in hopes of taking back control over their borders and having more
economic freedom.

Professor Thom Brooks, who is head of Law at the University of Durham,
doubted that the UK government would ever be able to end the over
4-decades-old membership in the union, The Independent reported Tuesday.’

Read more: UK will never leave EU: Top British academic

http://presstv.ir/Detail/2016/08/30/482366/UK-Brexit-EU-Thom-Brooks-May

Cidersomerset

4th September 2016, 14:22

After the fear tactics of the campaign the same old geo -political agenda's continue....

=============================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.4/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

G20: Theresa May faces Brexit trade pressure
1 hour ago

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has come under pressure at the G20 summit over Britain's trade
links with the US and other countries after it leaves the EU.President Obama said the US would
prioritise trade negotiations with the EU and Pacific nations over a UK deal.Japan has warned of
"drastic changes" after Brexit and said the potentially "harmful effects" must be minimised.
But Mrs May has insisted that the UK can prosper outside the EU and become a "global leader
in free trade".Mrs May is also facing questions over Chinese investment in the UK ahead of a
meeting with leader Xi Jinping later.

Asked whether she "trusted" the Chinese government - amid claims she is reviewing China's planned
investment in a new nuclear reactor in Hinkley Point on security grounds - she said the UK "had a
relationship" with China she wanted to build on.

read more...

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/37DE/production/_91020341_mediaitem91020340.jpg
The two-day event is Mrs May's debut on the international stage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37269916

====================================================
====================================================

Obama & British Prime Minister Theresa May- Full News Conference

9TYqo9t3S7s

Published on 4 Sep 2016
US President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister Theresa May hold a news conference at
the beginning of the G20 summit in China.

Akasha

3rd November 2016, 13:59

Brexit court defeat for UK government

Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the EU, the High Court has ruled.

This means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - beginning formal exit negotiations with the EU - on its own.

Theresa May says the referendum - and existing ministerial powers - mean MPs do not need to vote, but campaigners called this unconstitutional.

The government is appealing, with a further hearing expected next month.....(full article here (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37857785))

If you watch the video of Gina Miller giving her statement after the ruling, she briefly mentions the law firm in charge of the case by the name of Mishcon (de Reya). Mishcon, along with family office specialists Opus Private, launched Mayfair Private, an independent, high-end private client advisory business in June 2014 and, on January 15th announced the appointment of Alistair Morgan, as Chief Executive Officer.
Alistair joined Mayfair Private having been the Head of the family office of Lord Jacob Rothschild since August 2012 (source (https://www.citywealthmag.com/news/alistair-morgan-appointed-ceo-mayfair-private)).

Just a(nother) coincidence, nothing to worry about.

sheme

3rd November 2016, 14:53

The swine they will have civil war if the people have been bamboozled > Off to paint my banner all about how Ted Heath got us into this mess because he was a ruthless perverted sob being Blackmailed by the cabal..........

" Brexit can now mean any of the following- Betrayed, back stabbed, bush whacked, belayed, buggered, bastardized, bamboozled.

The people will not permit this, It may be official we will no longer have rights or be a democracy- Cabal rules ( for a while).

KiwiElf

3rd November 2016, 17:20

If the British Parliament can over-ride the Brexit referendum, then what was the point of it in the first place? The illusion of democracy?:facepalm:

Cidersomerset

3rd November 2016, 18:54

If the British Parliament can over-ride the Brexit referendum, then
what was the point of it in the first place? The illusion of democracy?

I was looking for this thread just now...LOL

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.5/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Brexit challenge: Court ruling is voter betrayal, says Farage

6 hours ago

Short vid on link...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37861487

A High Court ruling allowing parliament a vote on the process of
leaving the EU could be the start of a "deliberate wilful attempt"
to "betray voters", Nigel Farage says.

The UKIP leader told Emma Barnett on BBC 5 live that the decision
could be the start of an attempt to "water down what people had voted for".
The ruling means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon
Treaty - beginning formal discussions with the EU - on their own.

Mr Farage said he believed if the vote was put to parliament, the
government would lose.

The government is appealing, with a further hearing expected next month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37861487

===================================================
===================================================

Brexit Appeal: Parliament has final say in triggering Article 50

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Published on 3 Nov 2016

In a major blow for Prime Minister Theresa May, the British government has lost its
case for making the sole call on triggering Article 50, the formal process to begin
negotiations to leave the European Union. Read More: http://on.rt.com/7ts3

Sueanne47

3rd November 2016, 20:58

Un f*****g believable. The whole thing was a CON :mad2: I hope we get justice in the supreme court but I doubt it.

Matthew

3rd November 2016, 21:20

Might be a sign of desperation. After they wheeled Tony Blair onto BBC News I groaned. They probably think they got away with the Chilcot enquiry but people don't forget. We shall see what happens....

POST UPDATE
here's Tony Blair on BBC News talking about Brexit a few days before this sudden announcement today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37797127:raining:

norman

3rd November 2016, 21:26

It's all in the words. May said "Brexit is Brexit". Brexit was a word someone invented for the whole deal. I hated the word then and I still do.

It's just like the first thing GW Bush said at his press conference in the evening of 9/11. It was a cracker:

"This morning, freedom itself was attacked" .. .. ..

Sueanne47

3rd November 2016, 22:14

here's Tony Blair on BBC News talking about Brexit a few days before this sudden announcement today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37797127:raining:

Let all the criminals have their way..

Cara

4th November 2016, 13:14

Joseph Farrell's weekly video update focuses on the Brexit court decision this week:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhbEtMbcSPc

The two news stories he references are:
BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37857785
Zerohedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-03/uk-government-loses-article-50-lawsuit-brexit-needs-parliamentary-approval-high-cour

norman

4th November 2016, 14:30

This is VERY bad news.

If it comes down to a snap election and the whole EU exit issue is decided by Parliamentary constituency voting, the traditional voting patterns will kill it off. A huge proportion of the OUT votes came from traditional Labor voters. There's no way in hell those same people are ever going to vote Conservative, which is what it will take to get a majority for OUT in the Parliamentary vote.

As John Kerry said, "we can walk it back".

The FIX in IN.

Sueanne47

4th November 2016, 15:58

RT - No Brexit without parliamentary approval :

(May is still determined to press ahead with Brexit though)

z8gLi2bpHbA

Cidersomerset

4th November 2016, 20:13

Nigel Farage, fear of a Half Brexit

5Qg5d9xst38

Published on 4 Nov 2016
...if Parliament gets a vote before the Negotiations start, via the
High Court Ruling. They will limit the UK's ambition for the 6%
of our economy.Sky News. 4th November 2016.

Sueanne47

6th November 2016, 17:05

David Icke's take on Brexit : The people have spoken? We dont give a damn :

tvYfpUiW_Bo

David rightly said "The greatest threat to humankind is ~ naivety" How true is that statement! :thumbsup:

norman

14th December 2016, 04:29

New Lib Dem MP Skewered on TalkRadio

This is a rare bit of interviewing:

Rn3vuKEgTbs

sunwings

14th December 2016, 22:32

http://imgur.com/t/reaction_gif/Olic78f

http://imgur.com/t/reaction_gif/Olic78f

norman

26th March 2017, 13:42

EU Madness flocks to Westminster (:horn:)

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag289/mclies2/Stupid%20people%20in%20large%20groups_zpsbqgyhnya.jpg

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag289/mclies2/EU%20madness%20flocks%20to%20Westminster_zpsakstbyvg.jpg

Thousands join pro-EU march in Westminster

Thousands of anti-Brexit demonstrators marched to Westminster - before Theresa May officially triggers the UK's divorce from Europe on Wednesday.

Marchers showed defiance as they waved their banners during the peaceful protest just days after knife-wielding terrorist Khalid Masood attacked the heart of British democracy.

Opening the event, Alastair Campbell said: "Before we talk about Brexit, before we call on any of the speakers, we need to recognise that something really bad happened not far from here just the other day."

Campaigners stood with their heads bowed for a minute-long silence to remember the victims, with the only sound the chiming of Big Ben.

Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron addressed the crowd, insisting "democracy continues" and adding: "We stand in defiance of that attack."

Organisers refused to call off the event after the attack earlier this week, saying in a statement: "We will not be intimidated. We will stand in unity and solidarity. We will march on the heart of our democracy and reclaim our streets in honour and respect of those that fell."

It came as European Union leaders agreed that member states should be allowed to pursue integration at different paces.
The 27 other EU leaders were marking the union's 60th anniversary at an informal summit in Rome without the Prime Minister.

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2017-03-25/thousands-join-pro-eu-march-in-westminster/

norman

27th March 2017, 02:41

So what's the game here then ?

BBC under fire for 'lack of coverage' of pro-EU march

BBC refuses to disclose how many complaints it has received over yesterday's news

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/03/25/13/unite-for-europe.jpg

Tens of thousands of people joined the march in central London but some said the BBC did not give the event due prominence in its news coverage.

The BBC has come under fire from some of those who went on yesterday’s pro-EU march who claim the broadcaster did not give the event sufficient news coverage.

The Unite for Europe march saw tens of thousands of people take to the streets of London to express their discontent over the Government’s handling of the referendum result as the country teeters on the brink of a so-called “hard Brexit”.

Police figures suggest around 100,000 people attended the march, but several passionate protesters took to social media to complain the BBC was not giving the event due prominence in its bulletins.

Former Liberal Democrat MP Stephen Williams said on Twitter: “Absolute disgrace that BBC TV News gives just 5 seconds coverage to pro EU march by 50,000 people but gives extensive time to UKIP news.” Others agreed, with one user replying: “100,000 official by police, BBC think it was a bunch of naughty children having a day out.”

BBC online coverage of the march in the afternoon was criticised by some because the headline focused on the minute’s silence for the victims of the Westminster terror attack rather than the Brexit protest.

The initial headline read: “London attack: Victims remembered at anti-Brexit march” – which was later changed to “Thousands take to streets in anti-Brexit London march”. Members of a pro-Remain Facebook group, The 48 per cent, reacted with anger to this initial headline. Katherine Gwen said: “Appalling editorial. This has NOTHING to do with the attacks. We marched against Brexit.” Dozens of members of the group said they had complained to the BBC about what they claimed was a lack of coverage in the afternoon, when it was initially reported by BBC London before it later made the national news bulletins at 6pm and 10pm.

When contacted by The Independent, the BBC said it would not immediately give out figures on how many complaints it had received about individual stories or events, although they can be obtained eventually under the freedom of information act. It did not provide information on how many minutes coverage the march had received across its platforms, and not all its news programmes are currently available on iPlayer.

While the broadcaster declined to comment, it pointed to coverage it gave to the march on its rolling news channel and the national evening news bulletins on radio and TV. The BBC also pointed out it is common practice to alter the headline of an online story as events develop.

Although it now stands accused of supporting the Government's stance over Brexit, the BBC has previously been accused of a pro-Remain bias, a charge frequently levelled at the organisation during the referendum campaign.

BBC accused of Brexit bias by more than 70 MPs in open letter

And it was recently forced to defend its impartiality after it was accused of anti-Brexit bias by a group of mainly Tory MPs.

In a letter published in pro-Brexit newspapers The Daily Mail and The Telegraph, 70 MPs accused the publically-funded corporation of focusing on those who regret backing Brexit at the expense of Leave voters who are perfectly content with the outcome.

The BBC’s director general Tony Hall wrote in response to the accusation of anti-Brexit bias: “We go to great lengths to ensure that we balance our coverage and address all issues from a wide range of different perspectives. It is one of the reasons why the public trusts the BBC more than any other source of news.
“I agree with you that these are consequential times. For that reason, it is more important than ever that the BBC’s journalism is independent of political pressure. “We will continue to listen respectfully and respond wherever appropriate. Above all, we will guard our independence, report the news diligently and impartially, and continue to fulfil our mission on behalf of all our audiences.”

norman

28th March 2017, 13:45

Over a million marched in London against the Iraq invasion in 2003. Didn't change a thing.

Marching not only doesn't work, it adds to the divide and conquer Machiavellian tricks of those crooks at the top who blew up the middle east to make it blow up old Europe.

They care nought for human life.

All we can do, for now, is know what they are up to, and make sure they know we know.

sheme

31st March 2017, 13:04

http://www.ukipdaily.com/assassination-jo-cox-mp/ I had one of those multiplications ones brain some times has, and I cant help think that the reference to terrorism cooperation in Teresa Mays "Brexit" letter was her way of letting the EU know she knows who was behind the Westminster attack. This is what is to be expected when we have "fiends" in high places. Here is a copy of her Aticle 50 letter with someone elses analysis.
http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-letter-annotated-what-theresa-may-wrote-and-what-she-meant-article-50-europe-negotiation/

sheme

31st March 2017, 20:47

ThePythonicCow

1st April 2017, 05:05

Ewan

1st April 2017, 15:18

Well it would seem that Mr Michael Shrimpton has a similar opinion to my own I found this piece that he wrote for VT just now -very interesting read. It seems The Germans are coming and he claims Teresa May was the Target!

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/03/26/london-terrorist-attack/

A fine read. I literally burst out laughing at one point, where he advocated for
the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus to resume the wartime Grand Alliance and enter the war on the Allied side, deploying three Shock Armies to attack Germany across the Oder and South-Eastern Fronts.

sunwings

16th May 2017, 16:46

Tony Blair is Frankly interviewed by his former doctor of Spin for what makes a compelling and interesting listen. Tony Blair is preparing for a Pôlitical comeback to fight Brexit and you heard it here first.

At the end of the interview when questioned about the controlling players in world politics he says

"When you go and fight them...it´s a full on fight because these people will come after you with everything they have got...I mean they are like a mafia." (minute 55)

Nu-J16VQho8

norman

16th March 2019, 11:38

BREXIT - Duplicitous Leaders

It's looking extremly likely that Theresa (Treason) May ran a complete stitchup plan with Angela Merkel behind all our backs.

Information turned up on the Bruges Group blog telling a tale of highly duplicitous shenanigans by the Prime Minister, before it was removed again. Someone captured it. It should be spread far and wide. May kept her own cabinet in the dark !

Yes, ask the people to vote again. Give them a call on Full Sovereign Exit v May's Dodgy Deal. Nothing more, nothing less, we have already voted to leave, that part has been established already.

Here, in this UK Column video, have a listen to what has surfaced about Theresa May's sneaky dealings with Merkel.

https://youtu.be/Uw1SxNZw-NI?t=2432

Uw1SxNZw-NI

Of course, US president Donald Trump ( otherwise known as Q+ ) already knows this stuff and wasted no time in telling us he does.
https://vgy.me/pCgGjm.jpg

https://vgy.me/LuCqxM.jpg

At this point I have to admit I was completely wrong, earlier. I thought Theresa May was running a plan with the Queen to get us out of the EU despite parliament being completely dominated by globalist useful idiots. It IS, but Theresa May was actually running a plan with the "Queen of Europe", Merkel.

greybeard

16th March 2019, 11:54

Yes norman but where Im not in complete agreement is
Prior to the referendum the UK people were sold a bill of goods--they voted leave on the basis of false information and promises, promises.

So if there was referendum today, with new younger voters, would the result be the same?
After all the lying and drama I suspect there is a chance people would say Ive had enough of this the present deal with the EU is working its not that bad.
No guarantee whatsoever that life will be better totally oit of it.
What the voters in the referendum voted for was never available in the first place, all on a false premise.
I suspect the end result is that we dont leave.
Im voicing an observation not a position.
Whatever way it goes we will survive.

Chris

greybeard

18th March 2019, 18:20

The Speaker of the House of Commons has declared that another vote on Teresa May's Brexit plan can not be held.
He has the power and the right to prevent a further vote on essentially the same plan that has been massively rejected twice.
So where does this leave the PM and the Conservative Government?

I dont have a clue and neither does the Government it would seem.

Chris

greybeard

18th March 2019, 18:57

Speaker John Bercow rules out another vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal unless motion is 'substantially different'
Yahoo News UK Will Metcalfe,Yahoo News UK

John Bercow says the government cannot bring the exact same motion twice and the convention dates back to the year 1604.

House of Commons Speaker John Bercow has ruled out another vote on Theresa May’s Brexit withdrawal agreement if the motion is substantially the same as last time.

Mr Bercow ruled that the Prime Minister cannot bring her EU withdrawal deal back before MPs unless it is substantially different from the package which was decisively defeated last week.

Mr Bercow’s ruling, announced in an unexpected statement to the Commons, throws a further obstacle in the way of the Prime Minister’s scramble to get a deal agreed by the scheduled date of Brexit on March 29.

Downing Street has indicated that Mrs May will not table a motion on a third “meaningful vote” ahead of Thursday’s EU summit in Brussels unless there is a realistic prospect of securing a majority in the Commons.
Prime Minister Theresa May leaves after attending a church service near her Maidenhead constituency.
How has public opinion on the government’s Brexit negotiations changed? (PA)

Speaker John Bercow told the House of Commons: “If the Government wishes to bring forward a new proposition that is neither the same nor substantially the same as that disposed of by the House on March 12, this would be entirely in order.

“What the Government cannot legitimately do is resubmit to the House the same proposition – or substantially the same proposition – as that of last week, which was rejected by 149 votes.

“This ruling should not be regarded as my last word on the subject. It is simply meant to indicate the test which the Government must meet in order for me to rule that a third meaningful vote can legitimately be held in this parliamentary session.”

Angels1981

18th March 2019, 19:34

OMG that is soooo true. lol. Well said.

greybeard

19th March 2019, 16:21

Theresa May ‘writes to EU asking for Brexit delay until end of June' and admits country in 'crisis'
Ross McGuinness
Yahoo News UK19 March 2019

Prime minister Theresa May is asking the EU for a Brexit delay (Picture: PA)

Theresa May is to write to the European Union asking for Brexit to be postponed until the end of June with the option of a longer delay, it has been reported.

The prime minister also admitted that the country is in a political “crisis” over Brexit.

The BBC reported that one minister said there was “no agreement” in a Cabinet meeting about the government’s next move.

Under current law, the UK is due to leave the EU with or without a deal in 10 days’ time.

The BBC’s political editor, Laura Kuenssberg, said the prime minister’s letter will also include a provision for a delay of up to two years.

avid

19th March 2019, 16:34

A travesty of democracy, the deliberate procrastinators and ditherers should be investigated for ‘vested interests’ in globalistic companies et al.

The globalists do not want UK to leave, as others will surely follow, so UK is being made ‘an example of’, threatened/blackmailed. The giant plot is so thick that those wishing a ‘clean’ break with fair and honest terms, will be deliberately legally quagmired in perpetuity.

Realistically, how can the ‘leavers’ ever expect any proper fair result with those in power being compromised by the globalists?

Bill Ryan

19th March 2019, 17:31

The globalists do not want UK to leave, as others will surely follow, so UK is being made ‘an example of’, threatened/blackmailed. The giant plot is so thick that those wishing a ‘clean’ break with fair and honest terms, will be deliberately legally quagmired in perpetuity.

Perfectly put, and exactly so.

greybeard

19th March 2019, 20:05

Price of Brexit delay could be referendum or election, says Barnier
The Guardian Daniel Boffey and Jennifer Rankin in Brussels,The Guardian Tuesday 19th March

Michel Barnier has suggested that the price of a long Brexit delay in the event of Theresa May’s deal being defeated again would be a soft Brexit or a “new event” such as a second referendum or general election.

Speaking two days before Thursday’s crunch leaders’ summit, the EU’s chief negotiator said the bloc’s heads of state and government would want to be convinced of the usefulness of extra time, given the costs involved.

The EU is seeking a detailed road map from the prime minister on how parliament will decide on one of those options should her deal be rejected again next week, and is pushing for a commitment by May that a decision would be made by MPs by mid-April.

The prime minister will seek agreement at this week’s EU summit on an extra three months of membership, to pass the necessary withdrawal legislation in the event of her deal being backed by the Commons next week, or a longer period otherwise.

Barnier raised the bar for May by warning that for the EU’s 27 leaders to unanimously agree on such a prolonged delay to Brexit, it would need to be linked to a major change of tack by the British government.

“The key questions will be: does an extension increase the chances of the ratification of the withdrawal agreement? Will the UK request an extension because it wants a bit more time to rework the political declaration?” Barnier said.

Speaker of the House of Commons John Bercow ruled on 18 March that he would not allow parliament another vote on the same Brexit deal. Prime minister Theresa May would have to make 'substantial' changes to her government's two previous attempted to pass the withdrawal agreement deal with the EU.

Bercow said: "If the government wishes to bring forward a new proposition that is neither the same nor substantially the same as that disposed of by the House on March 12, this would be entirely in order.

What the government cannot legitimately do is resubmit to the house the same proposition - or substantially the same proposition - as that of last week, which was rejected by 149 votes.

This ruling should not be regarded as my last word on the subject. It is simply meant to indicate the test which the government must meet in order for me to rule that a third meaningful vote can legitimately be held in this parliamentary session."

The EU has been pushing May to work with the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who wants a permanent customs union to be written into the political declaration on the future relationship.

“I recall this political declaration, which sets out the framework of our future relations, could be made more ambitious in the coming days if a majority in the House of Commons so wishes,” Barnier added.

“If not, what would be the purpose and outcome of an extension? And how can we ensure that at the and of a possible extension we are not back at the same situation as we are today? In any case, the EU council will need to access what is the best interests of the EU.”

In his briefing to ministers, Barnier explicitly mentioned a general election or second referendum as possible reasons for a long delay, EU sources said.

Speaking to reporters after the meeting, Barnier said: “My feeling is that a longer extension needs to be linked to something. There needs to be a new event, a new political process and obviously I cannot attempt to preempt such a process.”

The EU is not legally allowed to set conditions on an extension, but understandings are being sought. May’s de facto deputy, David Lidington, was engaged on Tuesday in intensive preparatory talks in Brussels on a way forward.

The EU is likely to offer the UK a long extension, with an option to exit after three months. But Brussels wants to know by mid-April whether the UK is going to take advantage of the longer delay so that it knows whether European elections need to be held in Britain.

Earlier in the day, the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, said she would fight until the “final hour” of 29 March to avoid a no-deal Brexit, but admitted she cannot second-guess the outcome of the EU summit this week due to the chaos in Westminster.

Following the decision by the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, to effectively block the UK government from putting May’s deal to MPs, Merkel expressed her surprise.

She said it was up to the British prime minister to tell the EU what was now required, but the “flux” in UK politics made it impossible to predict how the saga would develop.

The EU is expected to come to an agreement on the length of a Brexit delay with May on Thursday and leave it open to be formally signed off until the last hour of 29 March, allowing time for a further vote on the prime minister’s deal.

Speaking in Berlin, Merkel said: “I admit that I wasn’t on top of the British parliament’s 17th-century procedural rules.

Related: Next, the Speaker should force MPs to vote this weekend | Gina Miller

“Now we’ll have to see what Theresa May tells us, what her demands are – and we will try to react to that …

“So we’ll be watching very closely how the British government responds to what was said yesterday in the parliament and then respond to the situation. I can’t assess how things will be on Thursday, far too much is in flux.”

Merkel declined to comment on the length of the extension, which will have to be unanimously agreed by the 27 heads of state and government.

“I will fight until the final hour of the deadline of March 29 that we have an orderly exit,” she said. “We don’t have a lot of time for that, but a few days, and I can’t foresee how I’ll be placed on Thursday – that will all depend on what Theresa May puts forward, what the situation is, what happens in parliament, and then we the 27 will respond adequately and jointly.”

Merkel added that she respected the Commons. “We know where the hammer hangs,” she said, in reference to parliament having the final say on any deal.

Barnier added in his comments that the Brexit process was in a “very, very sensitive” period and that “everyone should now finalise all preparations for a no-deal scenario”.

norman

19th March 2019, 20:40

Parliament can go back to a fresh vote on allowing a sovereign exit too.

Then Barnier's threat can slap HIM in the face, instead. He's only saying that because the idots in parliament voted to close that option off.

greybeard

20th March 2019, 19:00

Donald Tusk agrees to a 'short' Brexit delay but says it must first be approved by parliament
Andy Wells
Freelance Writer
Yahoo News UK20 March 2019

European Council president Donald Tusk has said a “short extension” to Article 50 should be possible “conditional” upon a positive vote in the UK Parliament.

Mr Tusk was responding to a request from Prime Minister Theresa May for a three-month delay to Brexit, postponing the UK’s departure from the European Union from March 29 to June 30.

The PM made the request in a letter to European Council president Donald Tusk exactly 1,000 days after the 2016 referendum which delivered a 52%-48% majority to quit the EU.

Mr Tusk, speaking in Brussels, said: “In the light of the consultations that I have conducted over the past days, I believe that a short extension would be possible.

“But it would be conditional on a positive vote on the Withdrawal Agreement in the House of Commons.

“The question remains open as to the duration of such an extension.”
Theresa May is set to ask the EU for a short delay to Brexit (Getty)
The letter Mrs May sent asking for a short delay to Brexit

Mrs May sparked speculation that she may step down if either MPs or Europe demand a longer extension to the Article 50 negotiation process, declaring: “As Prime Minister, I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than June 30.”

After Mr Tusk approved, in principle, the delay at a summit on Thursday, Mrs May is now expected to rush legislation through both Houses of Parliament next week to remove the date March 29 from Brexit laws.

Mr Tusk added: “At this time, I do not foresee an extraordinary European Council.

“If the leaders approve my recommendations and there is a positive vote in the House of Commons next week, we can finalise and formalise the decision on extension in the written procedure.

“However, if there is such a need, I will not hesitate to invite the members of the European Council for a meeting to Brussels next week.”

The Prime Minister announced on Wednesday afternoon she is seeking the short delay to leaving the EU to ensure Britain does not take part in the upcoming European elections.

In the letter to European Council president Donald Tusk, Mrs May wrote: “I had intended to bring the vote back to the House of Commons this week.

“The Speaker of the House of Commons said on Monday that in order for a further meaningful vote to be brought back to the House of Commons, the agreement would have to be ‘fundamentally different-not different in terms of wording, but different in terms of substance’.”

Mrs May told MPs on Wednesday that she still intended to bring her much-derided divorce deal back to Parliament for a third time – following to heavy defeats.

But, she said, “as Prime Minister I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than June 30″.

Have to say Im not clear on this---one interpretation is that either MPs agree the current deal or UK will exit without any agreement.
Cant see either happening.
Still think it will go to another referendum.
Could of course be completely wrong--its all crazy.
Chris

avid

20th March 2019, 19:23

Puts Extra-Strength ‘Senokot’ into Parliamentary water supply, to flush the *r*p out of all these nonsensical blockage deliberations, folks’ patience must be at their ‘band end’ - ie about to snap....

This is an historic farce of the greatest magnitude, a ‘lesson to be learned’ to those who dare to challenge the globalists, but there are really stoical folk out in the UK who will not give in to these prevarications, and really believe in our democracy.

A disgraceful example of compromised politicians, elected to represent constituents, but reneging on their obligations due to various nefarious personal ‘situations’...???

greybeard

21st March 2019, 08:32

'Toxic, Arrogant, Disgraceful': MPs Are Furious After Theresa May Blamed Them For The Brexit Crisis
HuffPost UK Graeme Demianyk,HuffPost UK March 21st

Theresa May has triggered a major backlash from MPs after she blamed them for the Brexit crisis.

MPs from across the political spectrum - and both Remain and Leave supporters - condemned the Prime Minister’s “arrogant”, “toxic” and ”irresponsible” late night address to the nation from inside Downing Street.

With nine days to go until the UK’s scheduled departure from the EU, May has requested a three-month delay from Brussels.

To hammer home her plan, she used a lectern address to blame MPs for failing to agree a means to implement the result of the 2016 referendum and said she believes voters just want this stage of the Brexit process to be over.

Indicating she believes the public backs her deal, the PM told voters: “I am on your side.”

But the strategy to pit the public against parliament backfired with elected representatives, who are poised to vote for a third time on May’s troubled deal next week.

Former Tory minister Sam Gyimah was the most scathing, labelling the address “toxic”.

He said: “Resorting to the ‘blame game’ as the PM is doing is a low blow.

“Democracy loses when a PM who has set herself against the HoC then blames MPs for doing their job.

“Distracts from Art 50 extension, all part of her strategy to run down the clock and rule out other options. Toxic.”

Wes Streeting of the Labour Party said May will have to “accept her share of responsibility” should any harm come to MPs following her “incendiary and irresponsible” speech.

He tweeted: “I’ve thought long and hard before saying this, but @theresa_may knows that MPs across the House are subjected to death threats – some very credible.

“Her speech was incendiary and irresponsible. If any harm comes to any of us, she will have to accept her share of responsibility.”

Another Labour MP, Stella Creasy, said: “You can try to bully parliament and blame other people for your mistakes but you don’t frighten me. Britain deserves better.”

Labour’s Lisa Nandy, who represents a Leave-supporting seat and has signalled she could back May’s deal, said: “The Prime Minister’s statement was disgraceful.

“Pitting Parliament against the people in the current environment is dangerous and reckless.

“Yesterday her government attacked their civil servants. Now she’s attacking the MPs whose votes she needs. It will have cost her support.”

Conservative Conor Burns tweeted in response to the speech: “What was actually the point of that?”

Lucy Powell, a Labour member of a group of MPs in support of a “Norway-plus” model for Brexit, denounced the suggestion by May that the members of the Commons have not decided what they want.

She wrote on Twitter that MPs have “never been asked what we want”, adding: “We just keep getting asked about the same thing that we’ve said we don’t want!”

May’s broadcast was delayed because a No.10 meeting with Tory MPs overran. During the meeting, she was told “politely but firmly” by at least two MPs that she should resign.

And in a sign a no confidence motion could be tabled to force May out, Labour MP Steve Reed tweeted: “Well I reckon May’s arrogant speech just then will have solidified feelings against her and her wretched deal. This is a confidence matter now. Deal gone, May gone.”

Anna Soubry, of The Independent Group, contested May’s claim parliament has been indecisive, adding the Prime Minister is to blame for the “Brexit crisis” and she has “let everyone down”.

The former Conservative MP tweeted: “No @theresa_may you are to blame for the #BrexitCrisis The impasse in Parliament is all of your own making.

“You never reached out to the 48% & to other parties to create a compromise.

“You set down your own red lines from the outset. You have let everyone down.”

May’s withdrawal agreement, thrashed out with the EU, has already been voted down by MPs twice and in historic numbers.

greybeard

21st March 2019, 10:11

If it wasn't so serious this would be the best drama on UK TV.
Uk could fall of the cliff edge into leaving EU "by mistake"

Would that be a bad thing?
I dont know-- but for sure we will continue to import and export goods regardless.
It really looks like Teresa Mays tactics are almost bound to result in an exit without any deal whatsoever, on purpose or otherwise.
The only alternative is another referendum ---where people vote to stay. any other referendum result would possibly lead us back into chaos.

Its ok for me--Im ancient--retired and state supported so I doubt if anything will change for me--but my heart goes out to people who's lively hood is threatened--loss of job is catastrophic for many-- the house goes--relationships threatened--all due to and for what?

Chris

Ps then it could be Home rule for Scotland with a hard border--if Scotland re joins the EU.
I am aware that the EU may not survive long term if the UK exits.
Total madness in Parliament
Not much Parli there..

greybeard

21st March 2019, 10:20

Revoke Article 50 petition: 500,000 people demand UK remains in EU as Theresa May begs for Brexit delay
Evening Standard Sean Morrison, James Morris,Evening Standard

More than half a million people have signed a petition demanding Article 50 is revoked as Theresa May was forced to beg EU leaders for a delay to Brexit.

An influx of people jumped to sign it following a night of political chaos as the Prime Minister turned on MPs in an impassioned speech to the nation on Wednesday night.

The 100,000-signature threshold for the petition to be debated in Parliament was quickly surpassed and the phrase "revoke Article 50" became a global trend on Twitter.

Just before midnight on Wednesday, the petition had received 300,000 signatures. It continued to build throughout the early hours on Thursday before 100,000 people signed between 6.45am and 8am to break through the 500,000 barrier.

The website for the petition appeared to have crashed shortly after 9am - showing only an error message.

The petition read: “The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'.

“We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.”

As of 8am on Thursday, the constituencies with the highest number of signatures - above a threshold of 2,801 - were Edinburgh North and Leith (represented by Deirdre Brock, SNP), Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire, Lab), Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner, Lab), Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine West, Lab) and Brighton Pavilion (Caroline Lucas, Green).
Under pressure: Theresa May (AFP/Getty Images)

Mrs May had said that it was "a matter of great personal regret for me" that Brexit will not go ahead on March 29 after she had to ask the EU for a delay.

She blamed MPs for failing to agree a means to implement the result of the 2016 referendum and said she believes voters just want this stage of the Brexit process to be over.

Mrs May has asked the EU to allow the UK's withdrawal date to be delayed to June 30 and threatened to resign as Prime Minister if MPs demand a longer postponement.

European Council President Donald Tusk then said the EU would grant a "short extension" but only if MPs back the Prime Minister's deal in the Commons during a third meaningful vote next week.

In the Commons on Wednesday, Mrs May set out plans to prevent Speaker John Bercow blocking a third vote on her deal, which was rejected by MPs by 230 votes in January and 149 votes earlier this month.

Westminster was in turmoil with MPs, who were granted an emergency debate in the Commons by Mr Bercow, desperate to hear Mrs May's plans as to how she will seek to get the deal through after two staggering defeats.

On Thursday, Mrs May will travel to Brussels for a summit of the European Council, where she will make her case for a three-month extension to the two-year Article 50 negotiation process, putting Brexit back from March 29 to June 30.

greybeard

21st March 2019, 15:27

Angela Merkel says EU WILL approve PM's short Brexit delay - but only if her deal is passed
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK 4 hours ago

Theresa May grudgingly asked for an extension to Brexit yesterday and EU leaders are now agreeing on how it will play out.

After European Council president Donald Tusk said that the delay would be granted as long as Parliament approved Mrs May’s deal, German chancellor Angela Merkel has also agreed to the caveat.

Mrs Merkel told Germany’s parliament in Berlin on Thursday that “we can comply in principle with this request if we were to have a positive vote next week on the withdrawal documents in the British Parliament”.
Angela Merkel believes the EU will grant Theresa May a short Brexit delay next week (Getty)

However, if the deal is not passed, Mrs Merkel said another EU summit may be needed.

While the conditions seem to have re-energised no-deal enthusiasts, Mrs Merkel also said that she will work “until the last hour” to try and ensure that Britain does not leave the European Union without a deal.

With Britain currently scheduled to leave next week with or without a deal, Mrs Merkel said Germany has put “the most important emergency measures” in place to deal with a no-deal Brexit.

Agape

22nd March 2019, 00:16

I think they’ve lost it today. The EU in particular and I’ll spare you of my opinion on the EU commission and its leaders because it’s not a good opinion.

They’re all too well payed after all just to sit there and TALK.
And use the member states money as they wish.
The level of ignorance- arrogance of trying to decide about some 28 countries laws is over the peaks of Himalayas.

As they say, ignorance is bliss. They make me sick though and I know I’m not the only one.

There’s no words for it really. There’s still option number 5.

Britain should stay in and help to dissolve the whole scam.

No EU has no rights to dictate anyone especially one of its founding states any conditions.

The situation is much like the Catch 22 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22) at the moment. Guilty unless proven innocent and better don’t try.

It’s a crude fact that’s been tested number of times in history already and failed on its head each time.

It’s almost lost but there’s probably about one option left. Prove that the EU has no legal right to dictate conditions under such confusing circumstances,
of member in good standing etc.
I don’t know of any other organisation so dictatorial to their members.

Shame on the EU. It’s a Monopoly game to be dissolved.

:sherlock:

norman

22nd March 2019, 03:25

Angela Merkel says EU WILL approve PM's short Brexit delay - but only if her deal is passed

What kind of sense does that make ?

These people are talking ever increasingly MontyPython lingo. If parliament votes for Theresa May's dodgy deal ( godelpus if they do ), we won't need an extention.

But anyway, I'm lost. These recent comments are talking about a no deal exit again. I thought parliament had voted to block that. If we are facing a no deal exit, we are still on track.

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 09:33

May's appeal falls flat as EU seizes control of Brexit date
The Guardian Daniel Boffey, Heather Stewart and Jennifer Rankin,The Guardian

The EU has handed Theresa May two weeks’ grace to devise an alternative Brexit plan if her deal falls next week after the prime minister failed to convince the bloc that she was capable of avoiding a no-deal Brexit.

After a marathon late-night session of talks, the EU’s leaders ripped up May’s proposals and a new Brexit timeline was pushed on the prime minister to avoid the cliff-edge deadline of 29 March – next Friday.

Under the deal agreed by May, Britain will now stay a member state until 12 April if the withdrawal agreement is rejected by MPs at the third time of asking.

The government will be able to seek a longer extension during that period if it can both “indicate a way forward” and agree to hold European elections.

In the unlikely event that May does win the support of the Commons when the Brexit deal goes to MPs again on Tuesday, the UK will stay a member state until 22 May to allow necessary withdrawal legislation to be passed.

“The 12 April is the new 29 March,” an EU official said.

Donald Tusk, the European council president, told reporters in a late-night press conference that he had several meetings through the evening to secure May’s agreement.

He said: “What this means in practice is that, until that date, all options will remain open, and the cliff-edge date will be delayed. The UK government will still have a choice of a deal, no-deal, a long extension or revoking article 50.”

Asked how long an extension could be on offer, the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, said: “Until the very end.”

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, told reporters as he left the summit that the EU had acted to protect its interests in response to a “vacuum” in Westminster.

“The EU in a very clear manner has today responded to a British political crisis,” he said. “The British politicians are incapable to put in place what their people have demanded. Their people voted for Brexit.”

Spain’s prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, described the last-minute deal as “satisfactory for both sides” and one that would safeguard the EU’s institutions in the run-up to European elections. “As far as Spain’s concerned, it’s a good deal,” he said.

“We’re at a critical moment in the construction of Europe,” he said. “History will judge what happens over the coming weeks. Spanish citizens in the UK and Britons in Spain need to know that the government is prepared for a disorderly exit. The EU and the Spanish government have attached amendments to the agreement. But it doesn’t depend on us any more – it depends on the British government.”

Earlier on Thursday, May had made an address to leaders described as “90 minutes of nothing”, by sources, during which she failed to persuade the bloc that she had a plan to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

May had been asking for an extension to article 50 until 30 June to make time for vital legislation to pass should she manage to get her deal through the Commons next week.

But her appeal “dismally” failed to offer any answers as to what she would do if the deal was blocked by MPs again, sources said, provoking EU leaders into taking matters into their own hands and in effect taking control of her future.

“She didn’t even give clarity if she is organising a vote,” said one aide to a leader. “Asked three times what she would do if she lost the vote, she couldn’t say. It was awful. Dreadful. Evasive even by her standards.”

When leaders asked May what she was going to do if her deal was voted down, an official added that the prime minister replied that she was following her plan A of getting it through. It was then that the EU decided that “she didn’t have a plan so they needed to come up with one for her”, the source added.

Special meeting of the European Council (Art. 50) (21 March 2019) – Conclusions

1. The European Council takes note of the letter of Prime Minister Theresa May of 20 March 2019.

2. In response, the European Council approves the Instrument relating to the Withdrawal Agreement and the Joint Statement supplementing the Political Declaration agreed between the European Commission and the government of the United Kingdom in Strasbourg on 11 March 2019.

3. The European Council agrees to an extension until 22 May 2019, provided the Withdrawal Agreement is approved by the House of Commons next week. If the Withdrawal Agreement is not approved by the House of Commons next week, the European Council agrees to an extension until 12 April 2019 and expects the United Kingdom to indicate a way forward before this date for consideration by the European Council.

4. The European Council reiterates that there can be no opening of the Withdrawal Agreement that was agreed between the Union and the United Kingdom in November 2018. Any unilateral commitment, statement or other act should be compatible with the letter and the spirit of the Withdrawal Agreement.

5. The European Council calls for work to be continued on preparedness and contingency at all levels for the consequences of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal, taking into account all possible outcomes.

6. The European Council will remain seized of the matter.

With May out of the room, EU leaders delayed their plans to discuss relations with China and launched into a marathon late-night session in Brussels.

As their talks wound on, the EU moved towards the “flextension” delay. It was then put to May by Tusk shortly after 11pm Brussels time after eight hours of talks, with and without the prime minister.

“What this model is designed for is to make it clear that no deal is not the EU’s choice, it is the UK’s choice,” a diplomatic source said. “The prime minister is braced for a long extension, but doesn’t want to take responsibility for it,” the source said.

The EU had initially looked at solely offering an extension up until 22 May, the day before European elections would be held, on the condition May’s deal passed next week.

But it was a lack of confidence in the prime minister following her latest performance in front of the leaders that forced the EU’s member states to act to shore up against a no-deal Brexit and allow the British parliament time to take control.

France and Belgium had initially pushed for an unconditional extension up to the 7 May, on the eve of the French Fête de la Victoire bank holiday, to provide a buffer to the economic shock of a no-deal Brexit. The EU is also staging a summit in the Romanian city of Sibiu on 9 May to debate the post-Brexit future of the bloc.

Macron told the room that he did not want the chaos of a no-deal Brexit to erupt before the French went to the polls for their European elections on 26 May.

EU sources said Macron’s “trump card” had triggered the leaders to work round the problem in a new way. “The European council worked well – and it is an elegant solution,” a source said.

The prime minister said the EU’s decision left MPs with a clear choice: either they back her deal next week and leave smoothly on 22 May; or the government will have to return to Brussels with an alternative plan – either no deal or some unspecified alternative – in a fortnight’s time.

May did not repeat the promise she made in the House of Commons on Wednesday that “as prime minister”, she would not countenance a longer extension, requiring the UK to participate in European elections.

Many MPs interpreted that statement as a hint that she would step down rather than allow a longer delay. But on Thursday night she simply stressed: “I believe strongly that it would be wrong to ask people in the UK to participate in these elections three years after voting to leave the EU.”

May also appeared to express a degree of contrition about the strident tone of her statement on Wednesday night, which caused a backlash among MPs and led to calls for her resignation.

Related: Brexit is not the cause of Britain’s political breakdown. It’s a symptom | Gary Younge

“Last night I expressed my frustration. I know that MPs are frustrated too. They have difficult jobs to do,” she said.

MPs, including many of those whom the Tory whips were hoping to win over, had reacted angrily on Thursday to May’s claims that they were blocking the people’s will.

A cross-party group of MPs is now considering how best to allow parliament to force May towards a softer Brexit or no Brexit at all. A new amendment has been laid for debate on Monday by Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin and Labour MP Hilary Benn that would give parliament the chance to vote on ways forward.

In Westminster, several MPs challenged the leader of the house, Andrea Leadsom, about the prime minister’s tone.

On Thursday night, businesses and trades unions joined together to urge her to change course. In a rare joint letter, the TUC’s general secretary, Frances O’Grady, and the CBI’s Carolyn Fairbairn described the situation as a “national emergency” and called on the prime minister to seek a plan B.

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 09:39

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 13:55

I watched the BBC News at one and still no mention of the petition--that I noticed.
Cant help but wonder if this inconvenient news for whoever controls the news we are given!!!
If more people knew about it more would sign the petition.
As far as I can see some of the areas that are showing a signing are ones that were all for exit.
Is there a change of mind going on?
I really suspect we are not going to leave.
Been wrong before but if I was a gambling man I would have been down to the bookie some time ago.

Chris

This is the link to sign petition
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Hervé

22nd March 2019, 13:56

We were lied to! Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years (https://archive.is/5pZSV)
A SECRET document, which remained locked away for 30 years, advised the British Government to COVER-UP the realities of EU membership so that by the time the public realised what was happening it would be too late.
By Lara Deauville (https://archive.is/o/5pZSV/https://www.express.co.uk/search?s=Lara%20Deauville%20&b=1)

PUBLISHED: 08:01, Sat, May 12, 2018
| UPDATED: 21:34, Sat, May 12, 2018

Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.

But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.

The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave.

That last detail was the only thing the disgraceful paper – prepared for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) – got wrong.

https://archive.is/5pZSV/ed036b523d17219d2b8daa84e36449edcf393efa.jpg (https://archive.is/5pZSV/ed036b523d17219d2b8daa84e36449edcf393efa.jpg)
The document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules GETTY

The unknown author – a senior civil servant – correctly predicted the then European Economic Community (the EEC effectively became the EU in 1993) was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty since 1066.

He went on to say “Community law” would take precedence over our own courts and that ever more power would pass away from Parliament to the bureaucratic system centred in Brussels.

The author even accurately asserts that the increased role of Brussels in the lives of the British people would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from Government”.

But shockingly politicians were advised “not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community”.

https://archive.is/5pZSV/3c1cf14238f1f2419e2f4f3ccd2eff8f170e57ba.jpg (https://archive.is/5pZSV/3c1cf14238f1f2419e2f4f3ccd2eff8f170e57ba.jpg)
Prime Minister Edward Heath kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s GETTY

They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave.

Document FCO30/1048, which has now been declassified under the 30-year rule, still shocks and angers Brexiteers.

Annabelle Sanderson, a Brexit expert and former advisor to Nigel Farage said:

“Despite all the claims from politicians of many parties that the EU was not about becoming a central state this 1971 document shows that is exactly what the plan was.

“Arch Remoaners from Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories need to check this out and ask themselves why they are MPs if they don’t actually want Westminster to be in charge of this country.

“We voted for Brexit what needs to happen is a proper clean break from Brussels so we can once again become a sovereign nation with money being spent in this country on services we need and have Parliament and courts making and ruling on the laws.”

https://archive.is/5pZSV/b0323cf7a42de649a6515dcba5df349245f94718.jpg (https://archive.is/5pZSV/b0323cf7a42de649a6515dcba5df349245f94718.jpg)
Document FCO30/1048 still shocks and angers Brexiteers GETTY

The writer and journalist Christopher Booker, one of the founders of the satirical magazine Private Eye, said: “Here was a civil servant advising that our politicians should connive in concealing what Heath was letting us in for, not least in hiding the extent to which Britain would no longer be a democratic country but one essentially governed by unelected and unaccountable officials.

“One way to create an illusion that this system was still democratic, this anonymous mandarin suggested, would be to give people the chance to vote for new representatives at European, regional and local levels.

“A few years later, we saw the creation of an elected European Parliament – as we see today a craze for introducing elected mayors, as meaningless local figureheads.”

The pro-Europe Sir Edward Heath was leader of the Conservative Party from 1965 to 1975.

He died in 2005.

In 2015 he was named as part of Wiltshire Police’s Operation Conifer investigation into historical child sex abuse.

Detectives said if alive – he would have been 101 – he would have been interviewed under caution over seven claims, including the alleged rape of an 11-year-old, but that no inference of guilt should be drawn from this.

Operation Conifer was closed earlier this year after officers found "no corroborating evidence" of any sexual abuse by Sir Edward and no evidence of a conspiracy.

Heath, a soft-right politician from a lower middle-class family, was born in Broadstairs, Kent.

He served though the Second World War in the Royal Artillery, rising to rank of Lieutenant-Colonel.

Although he said he had never killed anyone he was part of the Normandy Landings in 1944 and wrote extensively of the damage his gunners inflicted on the German occupying forces.

In September 1945 he also commanded a firing squad that executed a Polish soldier convicted of rape and murder.

He was made a Knight of the Garter on 23 April 1992 and became Sir Edward Heath.

Related:

France’s Emmanuel Macron uses German crisis to call for EU integration (https://archive.is/o/5pZSV/https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/882853/France-latest-macron-german-crisis-merkel-European-union)

Three EU countries that face HUGE contribution hikes after Brexit (https://archive.is/o/5pZSV/https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882861/Brexit-news-Germany-Italy-France-EU-budget-hikes-Britain-leaves)

Brexit fund GUARANTEED: Hammond uses Budget to reveal £3BILLION (https://archive.is/o/5pZSV/https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882836/Budget-2017-Brexit-fund-EU-withdrawal-Hammond)

Hammond reveals his budget drink - is it stronger than predecessors'? (https://archive.is/o/5pZSV/https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/882841/Budget-2017-Budget-today-Brexit-news-today-Brexit-latest-EU-BBC-news-Philip-Hammond-Europe)

EU citizens in UK will NOT be protected by European Court of Justice (https://archive.is/o/5pZSV/https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/882843/brexit-news-european-court-justice-jurisdiction-eu-citizens-britain)

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 14:16

All true Herve but we were also lied to blatantly by those politicians who wanted us to leave.
Scotland is perhaps more affected by leaving that England.
There would be tremendous collateral damage to many Scottish businesses if the UK gets brexit.

Chris

Billy

22nd March 2019, 17:28

"Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.

More information or view this petition on a geographic map.

2,728,265 signatures todate."

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/map-shows-uk-stop-brexit-petition-popular-203202748.html

There has been little mention of this petition on the TV media.
Chris

Ps now over three million have signed this petition.
Its just a question of wait and see what Parliament does with this--they have a legal obligation to debate this petition.

Thank you for the informative post Herve.

Brexit is a mess. Parliament can debate the petition till the cows come home. The fact is 17.410.742 British citizens voted to leave the E.U. and I was one of them ;)

I also voted for an independent Scotland because I do not want Scotland to be ruled by Westminster. I am just as passionate not to be ruled from Brussels. Independence means independent and not ruled by the EU globalists. SNP have lost my respect with this Brexit farce.

If the petition reaches 18 million then they should seriously debate it. Until then, listen to the people who already voted to leave.

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 19:23

Brexit is about to 'destroy' the Tory Party and Theresa May, says Michael Portillo
Yahoo News UK Jane Howdle,Yahoo News UK

Prime Minister Theresa May giving a statement about Brexit at the European Leaders’ summit in Brussels yesterday (PA)

The latest Brexit developments will “destroy” the Conservative Party, Michael Portillo has warned.

Speaking on the BBC1 politics show This Week, the former deputy leader of the Conservatives said there was no chance Mrs May’s deal would get past MPs.

He also insisted that no-deal was off the table – but the prospect of revoking Article 50 and stopping Brexit was equally unlikely.
Michael Portillo (PA)

Instead, he painted a particularly gloomy picture for the Tory Party in his predictions for the coming weeks.

He said: “I think Parliament will try to take over the process – Parliament may well succeed. What emerges from that will be unacceptable to Mrs May.

“Mrs May will resign before April 12 and, before April 12, an interim leader of the Conservative Party – I suppose it would be David Lidington, the deputy prime minister will say he will want to explore with the EU an alternative.”

He added: “Maybe something has emerged by then from the House of Commons, like the Norway option, and therefore we need a long extension

“As a result of all of that there will be a sort of outbreak of peace between us and the European Union – and absolutely mayhem in the Conservative party.”

He later added: “It’s not going to be ‘No deal’ and it’s not going to be revocation [of Article 50]. So it’s got to be something in between… and it destroys the Conservative Party’

“What will happen will be a new start under a new leader and that will take a long time.”

If Mrs May’s deal is rejected for a third time, Parliament will have until April 12 to consider alternative options.

But if it is accepted, Brexit will happen with a deal in place on May 22.

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 20:06

The petition discussed on Channel 4 news.
Fastest growing petition ever--its massive.

I dont mind what happens but it interesting to watch--the politicians evading answering honest questions.
As I said people were sold a pig in a poke way back.

Democracy says they should get what they voted for--they did not vote for the May deal or no deal.
They voted for an orderly exit with loads of benefits--now even the Government experts are warning of dire consequences if we leave without a deal.
I did not vote in the referendum.

Chris

greybeard

22nd March 2019, 20:34

May urged to go as she hints at pulling third vote on Brexit deal
The Guardian Jessica Elgot and Peter Walker,The Guardian

Pressure on Theresa May has reached new heights as ministers backed attempts to let parliament take control of the next stage of the Brexit process and MPs openly speculated that her time in office could end within weeks.

As a beleaguered May returned from Brussels, MPs suggested her deal could lose by an even higher margin, with several saying the timing now required the prime minister to “fall on her sword”.

May wrote to Tory MPs on Friday in an attempt to address some of the criticism and regain control over the process. In her letter, she even hinted she may not bring her deal back to parliament without “sufficient support” and apologised for the tone of her statement on Wednesday night where she blamed MPs for the Brexit impasse.
MPs had earlier suggested that it could be pointless for the prime minister to attempt to pass her deal next week, after a defiant statement by the Democratic Unionist party where they rejected the current state of negotiations. In her letter, May said the decision of the EU council meant she would bring back her deal next week “if it appears there is sufficient support and the Speaker permits it”.The prime minister said a number of colleagues had raised concerns about her speech in Downing Street on Wednesday. “You have a difficult job to do and it was not my intention to make it any more difficult,” she wrote, offering to hold more meetings with MPs next week.May will face further pressure from hundreds of thousands of members of the public expected to join the Put it to the People march in London on Saturday to demand a second referendum, after millions signed a petition to revoke article 50.

Related: The Guardian view on the People’s Vote march: a force for good | Editorial

Meanwhile, the EU increasingly believes a no-deal Brexit on 12 April is the most likely outcome, senior EU officials have said, prompting Emmanuel Macron, the French president, to privately ask Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, if his country could cope.

May’s de-facto deputy, David Lidington, has held advanced talks with senior Tories and opposition MPs to explore ways MPs could be given a say on the next stage of the process. Those familiar with the talks said he appeared to be speaking with the prime minister’s authority.

Greg Clark publicly broke ranks on Friday to say the government should keep its promise to facilitate a process to find a majority for a compromise in parliament. “There’s no reason why the government should be forced to do something that it is committed to do anyway,” the business secretary said.

However, the mood has hardened among some of the initiative’s supporters who have lost trust in the government to decide which options should be put to MPs, and fear a “stitch-up” where options are set up to fail.

May must start her gruelling week on Monday by making a statement to MPs on Brexit, before facing an amendable motion on the way forward.

A key amendment, tabled by Sir Oliver Letwin, Hilary Benn and Dominic Grieve, would set aside Wednesday for MPs to take control of the House of Commons business, in order to hold the series of votes on different Brexit outcomes.

The amendment has been rejected on previous occasions – at the last time of voting it lost by just two votes – but it has secured at least one new supporter, the Tory MP Caroline Spelman, and its backers are now confident of success. Should the amendment pass, May’s meaningful vote could be squeezed into Tuesday.

Subsequent voting options could include the prime minister’s deal, revocation of article 50, a second referendum, a customs union deal, a deal-based single-market model nicknamed “common market 2.0”, a Canada-style agreement, or no deal.

However, it is understood Lidington told MPs he did not want to put “unicorn” options to parliament – and in turn was urged to rule out several options including revocation, as well as a Canada-style agreement, which MPs regard as unrealistic without the Irish backstop.

MPs also insisted May’s deal should not be put to MPs again as an option if it has been defeated for a third time.

Labour’s Stephen Kinnock said it was “vital we only have credible and realistic options on the order paper” and that meant “no options that involve reopening the withdrawal agreement, which is well and truly sealed shut, and no options which are coming out of the blue”.

The Liberal Democrat Norman Lamb, one of the MPs involved in the talks, said he was convinced the government should not dictate what MPs voted on and that options should be selected by the Speaker, John Bercow. “It’s essential parliament controls what we vote on,” Lamb said. “We have got to have confidence in the process that parliament can genuinely express its view.”

Lidington is understood to have expressed some caution about letting Bercow determine which options are put to MPs, saying he “does sometimes select unicorns”, according to one source.

There is also some disagreement as to whether MPs should vote on ballots for as many options they like, or hold rounds of voting where options are narrowed down – a system that could result in parliament sitting until the early hours of the morning.

Jeremy Corbyn also tabled a less prescriptive amendment calling on the government to set aside time for indicative votes naming four options – Labour’s alternative, common market 2.0, a customs union and a public vote.

The Labour leader, who has held a series of meetings with MPs including those supporting a second referendum and those backing common market 2.0, said he was “convinced that a sensible alternative deal can be agreed by parliament, be negotiated with the EU and bring the public together”.

Ministers conceded on Friday that MPs would be likely to be given a free vote. The junior Brexit minister, Kwasi Kwarteng, said it would “be reasonable to have a wide debate in the house to find what the house would tolerate”. Rory Stewart, the prisons minister, said: “Logically speaking, if parliament is to express its view on Wednesday it should be free to express its view.

Conservative Brexiters were seething at the prospect. Steve Baker, one of the key figures in the European Research Group of hard Brexiters, said it would be “a national humiliation”. Marcus Fysh, another Tory opponent of May’s deal, said it was “the most ludicrous, childish and unrealistic idea I have ever seen”.

May was facing mounting pressure to name a timetable for her departure as a final gamble to win Conservative votes for her deal, though Tory sources suggested even that option may not have the desired effect.

The prime minister met Tory MPs who had switched to back her deal on Wednesday night, where MPs in the room said the feeling was that more than half could now switch back again.

One moderate Conservative who backed May’s deal predicted the prime minister would be gone within a month. Another MP said the party would “now do almost anything to get rid of her … If Labour called a confidence vote, it would be very interesting”.

The MP for Clacton, Giles Watling, who had backed the deal, said its success “might require the PM to fall on her sword to get it through”.

May was dealt a further blow to the prospects of passing her deal by a bullish statement from the Democratic Unionist party’s Westminster leader, Nigel Dodds, who called her failure to offer new proposals at the European council “disappointing and inexcusable”.

He also hit out at May’s speech in Downing Street on Wednesday night that blamed MPs for the impasse, saying: “Lectures by the prime minister putting the blame on others cannot disguise the responsibility her government bears for the current debacle.”

He said the DUP had had no new reassurances before the vote that would change their decision to oppose the deal. “Nothing fundamentally turns on the formal ratification of documents which the attorney general has already said do not change the risk of the UK being trapped in the backstop,” he said.

Matthew

22nd March 2019, 23:16

Uri Geller promises to stop Brexit using telepathy
The Guardian

Illusionist has told Theresa May he will ‘not allow’ her to lead Britain out of the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/uri-geller-promises-to-stop-brexit-using-telepathy?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR1dhlZFCG6WV9UH42eGCuuHcCcjTKddKXxtEKBQH9AToCppO694_hLMlpQ

I'm sorry, couldn't resist

norman

23rd March 2019, 00:00

Yea, totally agree that the original big fat con trick was with that creepy compromised child fiddling Heath way back when we first got involved with this euro stuff.

Meanwhile, make of this whatever you will. I know some of the facts are true, but dahboo77 is a wild card alarmist at the best of times.

Xl3QjQ1Brmg

greybeard

23rd March 2019, 08:00

Almost 4million signed the Petition to date.
Considering it is not that easy to find and not a front page promotion--this I suspect shows a groundswell change in attitude.
No mention on BBC News to date, I wonder why--
It will be interesting to see if it makes any difference.

Mark Twain said something along the lines of " We would not have been given the vote if it made a difference"

Chris

greybeard

23rd March 2019, 09:17

Theresa May dismisses petition calling on her to revoke Article 50

At a press conference in Brussels this evening, Donald Tusk said the EU had agreed an extension to Brexit to May 22 if MPs approve Theresa May's exit plan. But if MPs vote it down next week, Britain will have until April 12 to say what it will do next. At the end of the short announcement Donald Tusk was asked whether a 'special place in hell' should be reserved for Brexiteers who don't vote for May's deal. Mr Tusk responded: 'According to the pope hell is empty. It means there are a lot of spaces.' The press conference was then ended by an aide, but not before Mr Juncker shouted 'Don't go to hell.' - as the EU leaders urged Brexiteers to back Mrs May. Original Article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic... Original Video: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nldKjZOYo

It would appear that people are not allowed to change their minds with new information.
If this was the case then once a party is voted into power there is no need for further elections--democracy allows for people to change their minds.
Going for a further referendum scares the leavers---you had your chance, you decided to leave, end of story-- The decision to leave was made in good faith--on faulty information.
The descision to join was made in good faith on faulty information--whats new.

Chris

greybeard

23rd March 2019, 17:20

Brexit march – '1 million' people join Put It To The People London rally calling for referendum revoking Article 50
[The Independent]
Adam Forrest, Zamira Rahim
The Independent23 March 2019

Brexit march – million' people join Put It To The People London rally calling for referendum revoking Article 50

More than one million people are estimated to be taking part in the Put It To The People march in central London today, organisers have said.

Organised by the People’s Vote, Britain for Europe and Open Britain, protesters are demanding the public be given a final say on the Brexit process.

Campaigners seeking a second referendum started on Park Lane at midday, and many have now gathered at Parliament Square for a series of speeches.

"Almost 4.5 million signed the petition to revoke article 50"
Chris

norman

23rd March 2019, 17:35

I don't mind putting a choice to the people, but certainly not a choice between bad and badder.

We voted to get out of the eu. We didn't vote for, or were even presented with, a vote for a "deal".

The time for deals is after we are out. That's how deals work.

Tintin

23rd March 2019, 20:41

[Excerpt from para 14: "But public and political concern over “loss of sovereignty” cannot be allayed simply by setting out these technical considerations. In the public debate advocates of entry deny that sovereignty will be lost or transferred and argue that account should be take “of the effective ability of Britain’s national institutions to protect and advance the interests, domestic and external, of the British people”. They imply that sovereignty as defined above should be disregarded – considering it to have been eroded past usefulness by GATT, NATO etc and the powerlessness of the medium sized state acting alone."]

---------------------------------------------------
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[Document] FCO 30/1048 (1971)
Here is the document referred to in Hervé's post #345 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91509-The-UK-Brexit-vote-to-leave-the-EU&p=1282125&viewfull=1#post1282125)
[Document] FCO 30/1048 (https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/acft/FCO+30+1048.pdf) (1971)

Paragraph 11:

External Sovereignty

11. Membership of the Communities will involve us in extensive limitations upon our freedom of action. In many respects these are essentially the result of a contractual arrangement, not dissimilar in kind from other international contractual arrangements which we have e.g. in the GATT: these constitute restraints upon the exercise of sovereign powers as a result of an act entered into by virtue of our sovereign status, and they do not amount to a restriction of that status.

But it is not correct to regard the European Community Treaties as involving solely matters of a legal significance equivalent to that of other existing treaties. For example, in matters within the Community field (see Annex) we shall be accepting an external legislature which regards itself as having direct powers of legislating with effect within the United Kingdom, even in derogation of United Kingdom statutes, and as having in certain fields exclusive legislative competence, so that our own legislature has none; in matters in which the Community has already adopted a common policy, we shall be accepting that the Commission will jointly represent the Member States, who to that extent will have their individual international negotiating powers limited; and we shall in various fields be accepting a wide degree of coordination of our policy with that of the rest of the Community.

All of this we shall be accepting “for an unlimited period”, with no provision for withdrawal. But at the same time France or Italy for example as members of the Communities, have not come to be regarded internationally as less than sovereign states. This is particularly so since, despite the appearance of permanence of membership it is commonly recognised that the member states do still have the ultimate politcal option of renouncing membership and that the Community cannot at this stage impose its will against the firm opposition of a major member.

In other words in practice, and in the final analysis it remains to date a cooperative venture of independent equal sovereign units and not some supernational and overriding authority. Membership would mean an increasing range of subjects on which Britain’s policy was concerted with the remainder of the Community and also that in negotiations with the rest of the world on matters forming the subject of common Community policies, there would be join representation by the Commission. The Community being exclusive in character and membership also means in practice giving up some of our important links with the remainder of the world (Commonwealth Preference for example). But overall it is clear that membership of the Community in its present form would involve only limited dimunition of external sovereignty in practice.

If it is right to say that the question of the retention of the international status of a sovereign State is a matter of assessing in each case the degree to which a State’s external independence, equality and capacity to condut its own international relations are restricted, we could nevertheless fairly conclude that although the implications for our freedom of independent action are considerable, no substantial impairment of our international status would follow immediately upon our membership of the European Communities.The loss of external sovereignty will however increase as the Community develops, according to the intention of the preamble to the Treaty of Rome “to establish the foundations of an even closer union among the European peoples”. We deal with the implications for sovereignty of such dynamic development below in paragraphs 17 to 22.

Internal Sovereignty

Paragraph 12:

12. The implications of membership for Parliamentary sovereignty and for the legal system which is closely related to it, are more immediate.

(i) By accepting the Community Treaties we shall have to admit the whole range of subsidiary law which has been made by the Communities. Not only this but we shall be making provision in advance for the unquestioned direct application (i.e. without any further participation by Parliament) of Community laws not yet made (even though Ministers would have a part, through membership of the council, in the making of some of these laws). Community law operates only in the fields covered by the Treaties, viz. customs duties; agriculture;free movement of labour; services and capital transport; monopolies and restrictive practices; state aid for industry; and the regulation of the coal and steel and nuclear energy industries. Outside this considerable range there would remain unchanged by far the greater part of our domestic law (see Annex).

(ii) Community law is required to take precedence over domestic law: i.e. if a Community law conflicts with a statute, it is the statute which has to give way. This is something now implied in other commitments which we have entered into in the past. Previous treaties have imposed on us obligations which have required us to legislate in order the fulfil the international obligations set out in the treaty, but any discrepancy between our legislation and the treaty obligations has been solely a question of a possible breach of those international obligations: the conflicting statute has still undoubtedly been the law to be applied in this country. But the cmmunities system requires that such Community Law as applies directly as law in this country should by virtue of its own legal force as law in this country prevail over conflicting national legislation. The Law Officers have, however, concluded that while the European Community will uphold the supremacy of Community Law in its application within the United Kingdom, our Courts, if faced with a statute intended by Parliament to override Community Law, are most unlikely in the immediately foreseeable future to be restrained from giving effect to the statutue.

(iii) The power of the European court to consider the extent to which a UK statutue is compatible with Community Law will indirectly involve an innovation for us, as the European Court’s decisions will be binding on our courts which might then have to rule on the validity or applicability of the United Kingdom statute.

(iv) The Law Officers have emphasised that in accepting Community Law in this country we shall need to make it effective as part of a new and separate legal order, distinct from but co-existing side by side with, the law of the United Kingdom. They have referred to the basic European Communities Treaty provisions as amounting “in effect to a new body of “Federal” statute law”.

...and continued through here (http://www.acasefortreason.co.uk/fco-30-1048/)

greybeard

24th March 2019, 07:14

Calls grow for public inquiry into Brexit
The Guardian Michael Savage Policy editor,The Guardian 16 hours ago

Calls for a public inquiry into Brexit are mounting among diplomats, business figures, peers and MPs, amid claims that the civil service is already planning for a future investigation into how it has been handled.

The decision to call the referendum, the red lines drawn up by Theresa May and Britain’s negotiating strategy are all issues that senior figures would like to be examined.

Related: Dark money is pushing for a no-deal Brexit. Who is behind it? | George Monbiot

Bob Kerslake, the former head of the civil service, said an inquiry was needed into “the biggest humiliation since Suez, certainly since the IMF crisis [in 1976]”. The cross-party peer said he believed the civil service “is both expecting and preparing for this”.

“We do need to understand how on earth we ended up where we have and it probably needs to go back to the decisions around holding a referendum and the way the question was framed,” he said. “It would need to be a public inquiry, probably judge-led.”

Peter Ricketts, the former national security adviser and former head civil servant in the Foreign Office, cited the Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war. “Chilcot took a long time, but it was cathartic,” he said. “The report was widely seen to have done the job and I think you can say the British system is better for it. I think the handling of Brexit has been such a failure of the process of government, with such wide ramifications, that there needs to be a searching public inquiry.

“What advice was given to ministers? Was it taken? Did the processes of collective cabinet decision-taking work? Were the right skills available, for example on no-deal planning and all the costs involved? They are all legitimate questions for an inquiry. It should have the powers of a judicial inquiry.”

One senior Tory peer said: “We want our Chilcot.”

Sir Mike Rake, the former chair of BT, said: “When the dust has settled, there really should be some kind of public inquiry, looking at both the issues around holding a referendum and the context of what has happened in terms of pursuing Brexit.”

Many figures are already pointing to May’s early decision to set out strict red lines that seriously limited Britain’s ability to negotiate. John Kerr, Britain’s former EU ambassador who drafted the article 50 process of leaving the bloc, said: “Those red lines laid down in 2016 emerged with no consultation with the country, the devolved assemblies, parliament or with the cabinet. Then there was the decision to trigger article, 50 still with no agreement in cabinet of where we wanted to end up.”

Sir Jonathan Faull, a former senior EU official, said: “It would be surprising if the events relating to UK withdrawal from the EU were not the subject of one or more inquiries. An important initial question will be when to start. The 2015 election? The 2016 referendum? The article 50 notification? The scope ranges from Whitehall and Westminster to Belfast, Brussels and beyond.”

There is also support in the Commons. Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, said: “The government’s handling of Brexit has been a shambles from start to finish. It was a dereliction of duty to allow the country to get to this point, days before Brexit, in danger of crashing out with no deal or trying to force parliament to accept a deal it’s already rejected twice. We will certainly need a detailed postmortem of how this all came to pass.”

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________

Brexit
Dark money is pushing for a no-deal Brexit. Who is behind it?

George Monbiot

Targeted no-deal Brexit ads are funded opaquely, yet the government has failed to bring in new laws
@GeorgeMonbiot

Wed 13 Feb 2019 06.00 GMT
Last modified on Wed 13 Feb 2019
People’s Vote campaigners record a social media message.

‘People’s Vote says “it’s a matter for the donors if they want to go public”.’ People’s Vote campaigners record a social media message.

Modern governments respond to only two varieties of emergency: those whose solution is bombs and bullets, and those whose solution is bailouts for the banks. But what if they decided to take other threats as seriously?

This week’s revelations of a catastrophic collapse in insect populations, jeopardising all terrestrial life, would prompt the equivalent of an emergency meeting of the UN security council. The escalating disasters of climate breakdown and soil loss would trigger spending at least as great as the quantitative easing after the financial crisis. Instead, politicians carry on as if nothing is amiss.

The same goes for the democratic emergency.
Almost everywhere trust in governments, parliaments and elections is collapsing.
Shared civic life is replaced by closed social circles that receive entirely different, often false, information.

The widespread sense that politics has become so corrupted that it can no longer respond to ordinary people’s needs has provoked a demagogic backlash that in some countries begins to slide into fascism. But despite years of revelations about hidden spending, fake news, front groups and micro-targeted ads on social media, almost nothing has changed.
re

In Britain, for example, we now know that the EU referendum was won with the help of widespread cheating.

We still don’t know the origins of much of the money spent by the leave campaigns.
For example, we have no idea who provided the £435,000 channelled through Scotland, into Northern Ireland, through the coffers of the Democratic Unionist party and back into Scotland and England, to pay for pro-Brexit ads.
Nor do we know the original source of the £8m that Arron Banks delivered to the Leave.EU campaign.

We do know that both of the main leave campaigns have been fined for illegal activities, and that the conduct of the referendum has damaged many people’s faith in the political system. But, astonishingly, the government has so far failed to introduce a single new law in response to these events.
And now it’s happening again.

Since mid-January an organisation called Britain’s Future has spent £125,000 on Facebook ads demanding a hard or no-deal Brexit.
Most of them target particular constituencies. Where an MP is deemed sympathetic to the organisation’s aims, the voters who receive these ads are urged to tell him or her to “remove the backstop, rule out a customs union, deliver Brexit without delay”.
Where the MP is deemed unsympathetic, the message is: “Don’t let them steal Brexit; Don’t let them ignore
your vote.”

So who or what is Britain’s Future? Sorry, I have no idea.
As open Democracy points out, it has no published address and releases no information about who founded it, who controls it and who has been paying for these advertisements. The only person publicly associated with it is a journalist called Tim Dawson, who edits its website.
Dawson has not yet replied to the questions I have sent him. It is, in other words, highly opaque.
The anti-Brexit campaigns are not much better.
People’s Vote and Best for Britain have also been spending heavily on Facebook ads, though not as much in recent weeks as Britain’s Future.

At least we know who is involved in these remain campaigns and where they are based, but both refuse to reveal their full sources of funding.

People’s Vote says “the majority of our funding comes from small donors”. It also receives larger donations but says “it’s a matter for the donors if they want to go public”. Best for Britain says that some of its funders want to remain anonymous, and “we understand that”.
But it seems to me that that transparent and accountable campaigns would identify anyone paying more than a certain amount (perhaps £1,000). If people don’t want to be named, they shouldn’t use their money to influence our politics.
Both campaigns insist that they abide by the rules governing funding for political parties, elections and referendums.

As they must know better than most, the rules on such spending are next to useless.
They were last redrafted 19 years ago, when online campaigning had scarcely begun. It’s as if current traffic regulations insisted only that you water your horses every few hours and check the struts on your cartwheels for woodworm. The Electoral Commission has none of the powers required to regulate online campaigning or to extract information from companies such as Facebook. Nor does it have the power to determine the original sources of money spent on political campaigns.
So it is unable to tell whether or not the law that says funders must be based in the UK has been broken. The maximum fines it can levy are pathetic: £20,000 for each offence. That’s a small price to pay for winning an election.

Since 2003, the commission has been asking, with an ever greater sense of urgency, for basic changes in the law. But it has been stonewalled by successive governments. The exposés of Carole Cadwalladr, the Guardian, openDemocracy and Channel 4 News about the conduct of the referendum have so far made no meaningful difference to government policy. We have local elections in May and there could be a general election at any time.
The old, defunct rules still apply.

Our politicians have instead left it to Facebook to do the right thing. Which is, shall we say, an unreliable strategy. In response to the public outcry, Facebook now insists that organisations placing political ads provide it (but not us) with a contact based in the UK. Since October, it has archived their advertisements and the amount they spend. But there is no requirement that its advertisers reveal who provides the funding. An organisation’s name means nothing if the organisation is opaque. The way Facebook presents the data makes it impossible to determine spending trends, unless you check the entries every week. And its new rules apply only in the US, the UK and Brazil. In the rest of the world, it remains a regulatory black hole.
Dark money lurks at the heart of our political crisis
George Monbiot

So why won’t the government act? Partly because, regardless of the corrosive impacts on public life, it wants to keep the system as it is. The current rules favour the parties with the most money to spend, which tends to mean the parties that appeal to the rich. But mostly, I think, it’s because, like other governments, it has become institutionally incapable of responding to our emergencies. It won’t rescue democracy because it can’t. The system in which it is embedded seems destined to escalate rather than dampen disasters.

Ecologically, economically and politically, capitalism is failing as catastrophically as communism failed. Like state communism, it is beset by unacknowledged but fatal contradictions. It is inherently corrupt and corrupting. But its mesmerising power, and the vast infrastructure of thought that seeks to justify it, makes any challenge to the model almost impossible to contemplate. Even to acknowledge the emergencies it causes, let alone to act on them, feels like electoral suicide. As the famous saying goes: “It is easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism.” Our urgent task is to turn this the other way round.

• George Monbiot is a Guardian columnist

greybeard

24th March 2019, 11:10

I watched The Andrew Marr BBC program on Brexit this morning.
I might be a shade biased but the only politician --to my mind--who gave straight clear answers was Nicola Sturgeon.
The rest was an exercise in seemingly intelligent avoidance.

Think the standard advice of "Follow the Money" might apply.
Both leave and stay camps are being funded, leave with no deal seems to be best funded.

In who's interest is it to cause chaos and fear?
Who has been feeding the media lies and unreal expectation?
Who owns the media?
Let's face it the media really controls public opinion.

Chris

I haven't voted since I was 18.

greybeard

24th March 2019, 11:53

We can march for a new vote with heads held high – Britain was sold a fantasy Brexit and should think again

The Independent Chuka Umunna,The Independent Sat, 23 Mar

We can march for a new vote with heads held high – Britain was sold a fantasy Brexit and should think again

When we launched the People’s Vote campaign last April, we had a sense something was stirring out in the country.

Since the 2016 referendum, the half of the country who had voted Remain had been described as a liberal, metropolitan elite. Areas like mine in Lambeth, which scored the highest Remain vote but is one of the most deprived in England, were dismissed as “citizens of nowhere” by Theresa May – someone who will surely go down as one of the worst prime ministers of our country.
We were not prepared to put up with it any longer – it was time to speak out.

Significant numbers of Leave voters have come to believe that Brexit in the form it was sold to the British people by Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg and co was a fantasy.

Many recoil in horror at the dark and ugly side of politics which the Brexiters have unleashed with the spike in hate crime and race attacks following the 2016 result.
The Brexit elite’s attacks on good public servants – from the judiciary to the civil service, from backbench MPs to the Bank of England – who dare to point out the dangers posed to our economy from this dog’s dinner that is Brexit, did not sit easily with many.

If you visit, Remainer Now, a grassroots network of former Leave voters, you can hear their stories.

The People’s Vote movement’s strength is that it has transcended traditional political boundaries and has not been the tool of either of the frontbenches of the main parties. When it has been most successful, party political considerations have been left at the door; when it has struggled to make ground, it is usually because the internal party politics of one or both
the main parties has intruded and weakened people’s resolve.

For the most part, it has held together through thick and thin which is no small achievement given it is composed of political activists from the left and the right, unionists and nationalists, and those with no political affiliation at all.

At our Put It To The People march, you will see Brits from every walk of life, from our cities, towns and villages, from every part of the country on the streets of the capital in peaceful protest at the joke politics has become, frustrated at the lack of leadership by the establishment, demanding that the people have the final say on Brexit.

As MPs from different political traditions campaigning against Brexit, we have come to realise that there is more that unites us than the anti-Brexit cause.

What underpins the movement is a set of progressive values that we all have in common. It is what ultimately drove some of us to leave the established parties to set out on the journey of creating a new one – to provide people with an alternative. We will never stop making the case for the UK being at the heart of and leading in the EU.

Our patriotism drives our internationalism. We are proud of our country but recognise we cannot build a good society at home in isolation from the global forces that are buﬀeting our people around from abroad. Where appropriate, we should pool power and work closely with other nation states which share our values to shape the world we live in and protect the environment and our planet – there is no better alternative platform in our back yard to do this than the EU.

We believe that work is the surest protection against poverty and destitution, and gives us all the means to prosper economically, but it also has a value in and of itself that gives purpose, identity and mission in life. Not only being able to access, but being part of, the world’s biggest trading bloc underpins millions of jobs in the UK.

And, of course, there is more to life than work. Our families, in all their forms, are the building blocks of every community. Both our families and our communities motivate people, connect them to each other and give life meaning. So many of us have family ties to EU countries, in my case France, Ireland, Spain and Denmark. There are over five million EU citizens living and working in the UK, and UK citizens doing the same in other EU countries.

So we are marching not just against Brexit, but we are marching because we are proud of the UK. We think everyone deserves the chance get a good, decent job which our trade and connections with the EU helps create and, fundamentally, we believe the EU is part of our identity and our families’ histories. It is these progressive values which lie behind the wonderful movement we have helped build this last year.

Everyone marching can do so with their heads held high, proud of the positivity embodied in the campaign.
image

ThePythonicCow

24th March 2019, 17:22

The rest was an exercise in seemingly intelligent avoidance.
Clearly then British politics is superior to American politics, which are at best an exercise in stupidly idiotic avoidance.

greybeard

24th March 2019, 18:14

The rest was an exercise in seemingly intelligent avoidance.
Clearly then British politics is superior to American politics, which are at best an exercise in stupidly idiotic avoidance.

The political system here has been ongoing for many years more than the American one so our lot have had more practice at being economical with the truth Paul.
The answers seem logical and intelligent but behind it al is---there is never a chance some time later of "But you said"
They dont nail their colours to the mast or they could find themselves jobless.
The situation is fluid, so is allegiance.

The news says that Ministers are planing to oust Teresa May but not one minister will come forward and say "Thats a good idea I support it--im up for her job" Just too risky to their personal future as a MP.

So who knows where any of this is going.
Teresa May claims "Im doing what the people want they voted for Brexit"
People it would seem are not allowed to change their minds.
The media very quiet on the 5 million who have signed the Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU petition.
The number signing is increasing every moment.

Chris

One

24th March 2019, 19:56

So who knows where any of this is going.
Teresa May claims "Im doing what the people want they voted for Brexit"
People it would seem are not allowed to change their minds.
The media very quiet on the 5 million who have signed the Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU petition.
The number signing is increasing every moment.

Chris
Really, who knows? I can predict exactly where this is all going.

The remainers signing the petition can't have the slightest regard for democracy. Luckily for them they will get to discover what that means on two counts. Enjoy the show as we remain firmly in the EU dictatorship and Yes is warped into No. May is just playing her part.

Perhaps the media could explain what a democracy looks like while they exagerate any problems with leave campaign. Ah no. I forgot, they can't.

avid

24th March 2019, 20:02

greybeard

24th March 2019, 20:46

Tantrum bandwagon ‘democracy’ - for goodness’ sake, we voted BREXIT, - get over it, no amount of petulancy can override what most of us wanted, and expect a fair deliverance. Stop all this mainstream-funded negativity.

Yes avid but Scotland is a different matter a different economy--the majority voted to stay.
There are more people in Greater London than the whole of Scotland so you can say that democratically the majority of the UK voted to leave.
Thats one reason that the SNP is the largest party in Scotland.
Its a can of worms.
If UK ldoes exit the EU then the SNP will go for home rule and they may get it--then if Scotland joins the EU then there will be a hard border between England and Scotland--not a good situation but thats a possibility.

This is why I say who knows where this is going ---long term
Teresa May is doing her job but who is she working for?
Chris

avid

24th March 2019, 22:20

Having lived in Edinburgh for years, and voted SNP in the 70’s, my family live there, I am torn.
I am not a Sturgeon fan, and many nasty things have reared their ugly heads over the last few years - Holly Grieg, Alex Salmond et al.... I peeled the vile Scottish corruption ‘carpet’ back years ago and found the most insideous goings-on, back for many years, I am well aware from locale to national implications, that all is not well ‘up north’. Lots to do with oil et al, and the sneaky stuff in collusion with USA under the auspices of ‘national security’. Scotland is being ‘played’, a pawn in the globalist’s game.

greybeard

25th March 2019, 10:10

Theresa May has ‘bottled it’ says Boris Johnson as MPs try to take control of Brexit
Yahoo News UK Ross McGuinness,Yahoo News UK

Prime minister Theresa May faces a crucial few days

Theresa May is battling to stay in power as MPs seek to seize control of parliamentary business in a bid to secure a softer Brexit.

At the start of another crunch week in Westminster, the Commons is due to vote on an amendment which would force a series of indicative votes on alternatives to the prime minister’s Withdrawal Agreement.

It comes after Mrs May held “lengthy” talks on Sunday with prominent Brexiteer backbenchers, including Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and David Davis at her country residence Chequers to discuss whether there is sufficient support among MPs for another vote on her deal.

But in his regular column for the Daily Telegraph on Monday, Mr Johnson said Mrs May’s government had “chickened out” and “bottled it completely” over Brexit.

Defeat for the government in the Commons on Monday night on the plan – tabled by former ministers Sir Oliver Letwin and Dominic Grieve and Labour MP Hilary Benn – would be a further humiliation for Mrs May.
Boris Johnson has criticised the prime minister again (Picture: PA)

The proposal seeks to pave the way for a series of indicative votes in the Commons on Wednesday, effectively taking control of the Brexit process out of the hands of the government.

Brexit secretary Steve Barclay warned the risk of a general election would increase if MPs took control of parliamentary proceedings and brought about a “constitutional collision”.

But Chancellor Philip Hammond said “one way or another” MPs would be given the opportunity this week to decide what it is in favour of, though could not confirm whether Tories would be given a free vote on the options.

At the weekend, two senior ministers – environment secretary Michael Gove and Mrs May’s de facto deputy David Lidington – dismissed reports of a “coup” to oust the prime minister.

On Monday, she will convene her Cabinet in the morning before she updates the Commons on the Brexit process following last week’s European Council summit where she agreed to delay Britain’s departure beyond March 29.

Bu Mr Johnson told Mrs May to set out “convincing proofs” of how the next phase of the negotiations will be different from the last to win support for her deal.
David Lidington dismissed speculation that he could be installed as a caretaker prime minister under a reported Cabinet plot to oust Theresa May (Picture: PA)

He said: “If she cannot give that evidence of change – she should drop the deal, and go back to Brussels, and simply set out the terms that so many on both sides – Remainers and Leavers – now believe are sensible.

“Extend the implementation period to the end of 2021 if necessary; use it to negotiate a free trade deal; pay the fee; but come out of the EU now – without the backstop. It is time for the PM to channel the spirit of Moses in Exodus, and say to Pharaoh in Brussels – let my people go.”

However, foreign office minister Mark Field said he would support revoking Article 50 if it became an option in the event Mrs May’s deal was defeated and free votes granted for indicative votes.
The Commons faces another crucial week on the Brexit front (Picture: PA)

He told BBC Radio 4’s Westminster Hour: “My personal view is that I would be happy to revoke Article 50 – I appreciate that is probably a minority view – but if we get to this utter paralysis and I sincerely hope that in the next 48, 72 hours we do not, then if that becomes an option that’s an option that I would personally take.”

Meanwhile, The Sun newspaper used its front page on Monday to urge Mrs May to promise to resign in order to win support for her deal from Tory Brexiteers and the DUP.

“Unlike so many she has determinedly respected the will of the Leave majority… She must now take the next principled step – and show she is not just another craven politician determined to cling to power,” it said.

Speaking about Sunday’s Chequers talks with Brexiteers, a Downing Street spokesman said: “The PM and a number of government ministers met today at Chequers for lengthy talks with senior colleagues about delivering Brexit.

“The meeting discussed a range of issues, including whether there is sufficient support in the Commons to bring back a Meaningful Vote this week.”

greybeard

26th March 2019, 12:15

Jacob Rees-Mogg: choice likely to be May's deal or no Brexit
The Guardian Peter Walker Political correspondent,The Guardian

Jacob Rees-Mogg has strongly indicated he could back Theresa May’s Brexit deal rather than risk Britain’s departure from the EU being delayed or abandoned, handing the prime minister some hope that more Conservative Eurosceptics could shift to support her plan.

Related: MPs likely to back soft Brexit or second vote, says minister who quit

But with the government still deciding whether to bring May’s proposals to the Commons for a third meaningful vote this week, her Democratic Unionist unofficial coalition partners repeated that its MPs would not vote for her deal as it stood.

It also remains to be seen how many other Tory MPs in the pro-Brexit European Research Group (ERG) could follow the lead of Rees-Mogg, who chairs it, with a number of them still insisting they could not support May.

It emerged on Tuesday that May is going to address Conservative MPs at a meeting of the 1922 Committee on Wednesday night – with speculation swirling at Westminster that she could take the opportunity to name a date for her departure, in the hope of winning over more MPs to support her deal.

Speaking to the Conservative Home website for his regular “Moggcast” podcast, Rees-Mogg said fellow ERG members had to recognise they did not have the Commons votes to deliver their version of Brexit, and should see departure as a gradual process.

“We have to recognise that what we want and what we can deliver is not necessarily the same because of our lack of numbers,” he said. “The ERG and other Eurosceptics in parliament cannot win any vote on our own.”

Rees-Mogg said May had effectively ruled out a no-deal departure. “The prime minister will not deliver a no-deal Brexit,” he said. This meant, he argued, the options now appeared to be narrowing to being between her deal and potentially not leaving at all.

“That, I think, become the choice, eventually,” he said. “Whether we’re there yet is another matter. But I’ve always thought that no deal is better than Mrs May’s deal, but Mrs May’s deal is better than not leaving at all. And so there is a sort of hierarchy of choice.

“And if the choice is the one that you suggest then, inevitably, leaving the European Union, even leaving it inadequately and having work to do afterwards is better than not leaving at all. And perhaps the thought processes that people like me hadn’t gone through before is the thought that Brexit is a process rather than an event.”

Many Brexiters had viewed the process as being “29 March, we leave, that’s it, bingo, done”, Rees-Mogg added, and had to adjust their expectations. He said: “If we take this deal we are legally out of the European Union.”

While the news will buoy May ahead of Wednesday’s intervention by MPs to take control of the Commons timetable and hold a series of indicative votes to potentially find a consensus Brexit agreement, it appears she still does not have the necessary votes.

A series of other ERG members remain resolutely opposed to backing May’s plan, with one, Andrea Jenkyns, tweeting that it was “fake news” to suggest she might change her mind.

May also needs the DUP’s 10 votes, which remains unlikely. On Tuesday, the DUP MP Jim Shannon insisted the party could not back the plan. “The obvious thing for us is that nothing has changed,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

The only way for the DUP to support the plan, he said, was for the government to attach a time limit to the backstop insurance policy for the Irish border, which the EU has repeatedly ruled out.

“We had only one red line, and that red line was clear – the backstop. And that hasn’t changed,” Shannon said.

A change of heart by the ERG would not affect this, he said: “They maybe see Brexit as the greater issue, rather than the union. We see the union as the big issue, the priority.”

greybeard

26th March 2019, 12:47

News
With days to go, still no one knows what Brexit means. Revoking Article 50 is the only way to avoid disaster
The Independent Sean O'Grady,The independent

With days to go, still no one knows what Brexit means. Revoking Article 50 is the only way to avoid disaster

So, then with four days to go until Brexit Day – 29 March at 11pm remains the legal position – and Great Britain, cradle of democracy, home to the enlightenment, inventor of the jet engine, penicillin and the internet hasn’t quite been able to determine:

What the House of Commons wants, or;
How the House of Commons will decide what it wants, or;
When we are going to leave the European Union, or;
Under what terms we will leave the EU, or;
If we are going to leave the EU at all, or;
Whether the people will be given their “final say” on Europe.

It is sometimes said that the British have a special talent for improvisation, and are at their best when they have their backs to the wall, the Dunkirk spirit and all that; but this is ridiculous. It’s bad for business too; the reputation of the country is sinking every day.

A series of “indicative” votes by MPs this week are unlikely to resolve anything. The MPs, a sophisticated electorate, are even having trouble deciding how they will be making their decision – the voting method, system of counting and so on. One of the hallmarks of the Brexit process is how much of the wrangling has been procedural – boring but vital. As with Speaker Bercow's decisions on tabling amendments or “meaningful” votes that are meaningless – though they’ve been very important. They are, however, also another symptom of a chronic level of deep and bitter division that reflects the one we see in society as a whole. It is that division that people are tired of.

The answer to all of this is perfectly clear. We do need more time to think, though I’m not sure we’re going to take it. The only sure way to buy this time is by revoking Article 50, which incidentally means electing members of the European Parliament in the summer. Millions of people have signed a petition in in record time to achieve just that.

Revoking Article 50 – a unilateral act that could be done in minutes by Ms May via an email to Donald Tusk – may not be thought to be politically possible now – but it may also be one of the very many unthinkable things that eventually have come to pass. Another example of the unthinkable becoming quite real is where we are now – being a few days away from a legal Brexit date, but not actually knowing when, if or how it might actually occur.

When people say “the Brexit we voted for” I think we can all unite around the current situation as being the stuff of no one's dreams in June 2016: not even their nightmares, in fact.

Given the choice between crashing out of the European Union with Theresa May, or staying in under virtually anyone else, very few would take the first option, either in the Cabinet, the Commons or outside it. We are coming, perhaps to a conclusion that there really is no such thing as a “soft Brexit”, because all the drawbacks associated with the May deal, the Norway and the Canadian option leave the UK worse off – less sovereign and poorer – than if we stayed in the EU and retained our votes and decision making powers.

There’s a case for hard Brexit – but only if it is supported by a huge amount of preparation and policy-making to mitigate the ill-effects and to capitalise on possible benefits.

Anyway, in the end, whatever the commons comes up with and agrees with the EU – and it will take time to re-start and fix Brexit – the final decision should not be for MPs to take. In 2016 the nation, quite absentmindedly, ended the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty and substituted it with the sovereignty of the people.

That was what Ms May was driving at, clumsily, in her “I’m on your side” intervention last week. It is true, too – which is why we need a final say referendum to give public approval to the terms of Brexit, whatever they turn out to be and whenever they get decided. We could still leave on May’s deal; we could leave under other UK-EU agreed “soft Brexit” terms; or on “hard” WTO terms; or we could remain in the EU. Those are all realistic options to put to the voters. It is the people who should be making their choices now.
image

Deux Corbeaux

26th March 2019, 18:45

Sammy J helps us flex our foreign muscles with a brand new flow straight out of Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqwEa6I1lwI

greybeard

26th March 2019, 20:49

The Government Has Responded To The Stop Brexit Petition And It's Not Going To Please Signatories
HuffPost UK Chris York,HuffPost UK

The government has responded to the hugely popular Revoke Article 50 petition by shooting it down even as it approaches six million signatures.

A statement from the Department for Exiting the European Union, said stopping Brexit would “break the promises made by government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy”.

It added:

This government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.

But it was also announced the petition will be debated by MPs on 1 April in the Commons’ secondary chamber, Westminster Hall, and will be streamed live on Parliament TV.

The Commons Petitions Committee said the petition – which passed 5.75 million signatures on Tuesday evening – was “the most signed petition ever received on the House of Commons and government petitions site”.
The petition as it stood on Tuesday evening.

MPs will also debate petitions calling for a second EU referendum, which has received more than 120,000 signatures, and another – signed by more than 140,000 – demanding that the UK leave with or without a deal on March 29, the Press Association reports.

The announcement comes as it was revealed senior Tory backbenchers will demand that Theresa May sets a timetable for her resignation tomorrow as their price for backing her Brexit deal.

The prime minister will address the Conservative 1922 Committee on Wednesday, with party sources confirming that there is a “clear expectation” that she will signal fresh details of her departure.

Committee chairman Sir Graham Brady has communicated to the PM that more “clarity” on her future would be welcomed by backbenchers, one insider told HuffPost UK.
Read more on that story here...

May Facing Resignation Date Demand At Tory MP Showdown

The government response in full:

It remains the government’s firm policy not to revoke Article 50. We will honour the outcome of the 2016 referendum and work to deliver an exit which benefits everyone, whether they voted to Leave or to Remain.

Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in government.

The government acknowledges the considerable number of people who have signed this petition. However, close to three quarters of the electorate took part in the 2016 referendum, trusting that the result would be respected. This government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome of the referendum would be implemented. 17.4 million people then voted to leave the European Union, providing the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at UK government.

British people cast their votes once again in the 2017 general election where over 80% of those who voted, voted for parties, including the Opposition, who committed in their manifestos to upholding the result of the referendum.

This government stands by this commitment.

Revoking Article 50 would break the promises made by government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy. As the Prime Minister has said, failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”, and it is imperative that people can trust their government to respect their votes and deliver the best outcome for them.

Department for Exiting the European Union.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/government-responded-stop-brexit-petition-182234680.html

greybeard

28th March 2019, 11:40

EU cannot betray ‘increasing majority’ who want UK to remain, says Tusk
The Guardian Daniel Boffey in Brussels,The Guardian

Donald Tusk issued a rallying call to the “increasing majority” of British people who want to cancel Brexit and stay in the EU, hours before MPs were given the chance to back a second referendum.

In a stirring intervention on Wednesday, the European council president praised those who marched on the streets of London and the millions who are petitioning the government to revoke article 50.

Speaking to the European parliament, Tusk reprimanded those who voiced concerns about a potential lengthy extension to article 50 in the event of the Commons rejecting the withdrawal agreement again this week.

Tusk said: “Let me make one personal remark to the members of this parliament. Before the European council, I said that we should be open to a long extension if the UK wishes to rethink its Brexit strategy, which would of course mean the UK’s participation in the European parliament elections. And then there were voices saying that this would be harmful or inconvenient to some of you.

Related: Brexit extension could be until 31 March 2020, EU documents reveal

“Let me be clear: such thinking is unacceptable. You cannot betray the 6 million people who signed the petition to revoke article 50, the 1 million people who marched for a people’s vote, or the increasing majority of people who want to remain in the European Union.”

To heckling from Ukip MEPs, Tusk went on: “They may feel that they are not sufficiently represented by the UK parliament, but they must feel that they are represented by you in this chamber. Because they are Europeans.”

In London, MPs voted to seize control of the parliamentary timetable on Monday to allow the House of Commons to explore over the coming days whether there could be support for alternatives to Theresa May’s twice-defeated Brexit deal, including a possible second public vote.

That proposal, put forward by the former Labour cabinet minister Margaret Beckett, lost by 27 votes on Wednesday evening, the second smallest loss among the eight solutions to the Brexit impasse, offering some hope to campaigners in future votes to come. But EU sources said they were concerned that the UK parliament was still unable to coalesce around a solution, saying: “Our interlocutor remains the British government.”

The Guardian revealed on Wednesday morning that the EU has pencilled in April Fools’ Day 2020 as a first day for the UK outside the bloc since 1973 if May fails to ratify her deal but seeks a long extension of article 50 on the basis that a new plan has emerged.

The former Ukip leader Nigel Farage responded to Tusk by describing him as “deluded” and claiming that a second referendum would deliver a larger majority for leave.

In a pantomime moment, Farage turned to those sat behind him to ask whether they really wanted him to return as an MEP. He ended his speech to the parliament by appealing to the EU’s leaders to “get the British out”.

Later in the debate, Tusk hit back, saying: “Mr Farage, you have presented passionate arguments against a second referendum. But the truth is that the second referendum took place in 2016 because the first one took place in 1975. And then a vast majority of the British public decided that the place of the UK was in the European Economic Community.

“No, it was you who thought three years ago that it was possible to organise a referendum to invalidate the previous one. Then please be consistent also today.”

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, also spoke, saying: “No one is trying to steal Brexit from you, no one is trying to undo the vote of the British people” but, he said, the UK would have to bear the consequences of its decisions.

He said the EU’s leaders last week had allowed an extension of article 50 until 12 April to “open the possibility to the UK to shoulder its responsibility – it is now over to this country to shoulder that responsibility”.

Tusk’s comments came as the British government emailed the 5.8 million people who have signed a UK parliament petition seeking the revocation of article 50. The email informed signatories that “this government will not revoke article 50”.

The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, speaking after Tusk on the subject of Tuesday’s summit, told MEPs he awaited the Commons decision with interest.

“The debate on China was far less complicated than the debate on the UK and I was saying to some of you that if I was to compare Great Britain to a sphinx, the sphinx would be an open book by comparison,” Juncker said. “Let’s see how that book speaks over the next week or so.”

Barnier warned the British government that the Irish backstop, under which Northern Ireland would stay in the single market and the customs union, would continue to form the basis of the EU’s policy to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland even in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

avid

28th March 2019, 12:15

Groan.... it’s beginning to resemble a plot from a ‘Carry on’ film, with Theresa May shouting “infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me!”

greybeard

28th March 2019, 12:31

Groan.... it’s beginning to resemble a plot from a ‘Carry on’ film, with Theresa May shouting “infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me!”

Agreed --now where is Sid James?
They are all comedians--Boris for president---I mean PM--oh no.
I only have so much laughter in me.
However the most captivating soap on TV at the moment.

Chris

Did You See Them

28th March 2019, 13:56

Yipee - "Brexit Day" !

Don't need comedy politicians to "confirm" it - THE PEOPLE have already done that - sod the lot of them.

Agape

28th March 2019, 14:43

With Brexit , err sorry, British humour ...

Rowan Atkinson aka Mr Bean singing the Ode to Joy for Germans ( wicked and far sighted as usually)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWGZdYNpaSo

July 9, 2018, Mr Bean appointed as new Brexit secretary:

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/07/09/mr-bean-appointed-as-new-uk-brexit-secretary/

can’t compete with ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkvEp_B5Kq8

Sorry again , I’m still young.

:bearhug:

greybeard

29th March 2019, 16:51

Brexit thrown into chaos as Theresa May's deal defeated for the third time
Yahoo News UK Yahoo News UK

Theresa May‘s Brexit deal has been rejected by MPs for a third time on a dramatic day in the House of Commons.

Parliament voted down the Withdrawal Agreement by a majority of 58 – a smaller margin than when they rejected it for a second time in February by 149.

The result is a devastating blow for the Prime Minister, who has tied her personal leadership to the success of this Brexit deal – but it is now dead in the water.

It means the UK could leave the EU with no deal on 12 April – in just 14 days’ time. It is more likely, however, that the UK will seek a much longer extension as it seeks to extract itself from the EU.

For this to happen, the UK will have to present a new plan to Brussels by 10 April, which the EU would have to accept for Brexit to be pushed back any further.

But the European Commission has reacted to the vote by stating the UK is now “likely” to crash our without any agreement in place. It said in a statement: “”A “no-deal” scenario on 12 April is now a likely scenario. The EU has been preparing for this since December 2017 and is now fully prepared for a “no-deal” scenario at midnight on 12 April.”
Prime Minister Theresa May made a last-gasp appeal to MPs to support her deal. PA

The defeat comes despite numerous high-profile Brexiteer Tories, including Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, stating they would back it to avoid the possibility of Brexit being cancelled altogether.

However, Mrs May was unable to convince the DUP to support her deal and nor was she able to persuade enough Labour rebels to get behind her.

Under the terms of an agreement with Brussels, a positive vote would have qualified the UK for an automatic delay to May 22 – the formal date of Brexit.

Read more:
Theresa May will not be around for the next election
Brexiteers gets up at 6am to replace EU flags

Instead, the defeat means the UK now has until April 12 to ask Brussels for a further extension to Brexit negotiations – which would require it to take part in May’s elections to the European Parliament – or leave the EU without a deal.

yelik

30th March 2019, 13:17

What a game of betrayal and treason unfolding in front of our eyes. What do we expect when the Tory party voted a remainer to lead. She was always going to try to keep the UK closely tied to the EU, she never even took up the EU offer to have a free trade agreement.

Interestingly Jacob Rees-Mogg commented that Oliver Letwin and his cabal supporters have been trying to stop the UK from leaving the UK. I suspect most politicians have been bribed to remain by the cabal.

I voted to leave because I'm against centralisation of power by unelected officials that are part of the Elite system of control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkvlSlr00g

norman

30th March 2019, 13:48

It's all a big fake crisis.

To stun us, into submission. Really, we should remain as calm as we were the day we voted.

A Voice from the Mountains

30th March 2019, 18:47

The political system here has been ongoing for many years more than the American one so our lot have had more practice at being economical with the truth Paul.

I've always found this way of thinking fascinating. So when John Smith, George Percy, Edward Wingfield, etc., arrived in Jamestown in 1607, I suppose the idea is that their familiarity with English politics was reset to zero as soon as they stepped foot onto the continent, and something completely new began from nothing.

It's similar to when people say that German is an older language than English, simply because modern English and modern German descend from a common ancient root. It doesn't really make any sense.

In a way it boils down to saying something equivalent to "my ancestors are older than your ancestors," when they all go back to the same place.

greybeard

31st March 2019, 10:54

Article 50 petition to cancel Brexit passes 6m signatures
The Guardian Guardian staff,The Guardian

The petition asking the British government to revoke article 50 and reconsider its plan to exit the European Union passed 6m signatures a day and a half after Britain was meant to have left the European Union.

The number of signatories passed the 5m mark the previous Sunday, making it the most popular petition to have been submitted to the parliament website. The previous highest total of 4,150,260 was for a 2016 petition calling for a second referendum should the initial poll not provide a definitive enough result.

The woman behind the petition, Margaret Georgiadou, said she had received death threats. She also said she had deleted her Facebook account after receiving a “torrent of abuse”.

Parliament will debate the petition on Monday. The government responded on 26 March that it would not revoke article 50, saying: “We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.”

Since then, Theresa May’s Brexit deal has been rejected by MPs for the third time, this time by 58 votes; the DUP’s deputy leader, Nigel Dodds, said he would rather the UK stayed in the EU than back her withdrawal agreement.

May is set to return to Brussels for an emergency European council summit on 10 April. The EU27 expect her to ask for a longer delay or accept a no-deal Brexit two days later, on 12 April.

There have been conspiracy theories about the petition on both sides of the debate. Some said crashes on the site since the petition launched were a plot to prevent further signatures.

Others claimed that a small proportion of signatures from overseas IP addresses – including one from North Korea – meant the petition had been hijacked by bots. In fact, 96% of the signatures were from the UK.

Chris comment.
Its all manipulated through the media.
However its not easy to see which way the manipulates want it to go.
Who are the bad guys? --smiling.
Im sure most MPs are honourable and doing their best even if deluded.
The bottom line is that no matter the end result--some will benefit in UK and some will not.

Awaiting the next episode

Ch

greybeard

31st March 2019, 20:34

‘Many’ Labour MPs want to back plan to cancel Brexit in wake of latest defeat for Theresa May
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK

As Parliament gets ready for another tumultuous week, “many” Labour MPs are reportedly now ready to give their backing to cancelling Brexit altogether.

According to Joanna Cherry QC, the SNP MP behind a revised plan to revoke Article 50 if a no-deal scenario seems inevitable, the MPs who want to back it have already approached her.

She said she has been working closely with some Labour politicians to find a more “palatable” way of wording the proposal.
Labour MPs are ready to back a plan to revoke Article 50, according to the SNP
Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson has already put his backing behind a second referendum (Getty)

Scottish Labour MP Paul Sweeney has already suggested that he and others are “sympathetic” to the idea, which he described as a “sensible safeguard”.

MPs are preparing to take control of the Commons timetable with a second series of “indicative” votes on Brexit, starting on Monday, in a bid to find a plan which can command a majority in the House.

Ms Cherry has confirmed that she has tabled a fresh version of her motion that calls for Article 50 – the mechanism for leaving the European Union – to be revoked in certain circumstances.

Under the reworked motion, if the UK gets to April 10, the date of a European Council summit, without a deal, an extension to Article 50 will be sought.

If that extension is not granted, the UK Government would then be mandated to put a vote on no deal before the Commons.

Ms Cherry told BBC Scotland: “We’re confident that that will be defeated, and the motion goes on to say that if the vote for no deal is defeated, the Government must revoke Article 50.”
Leave voters are showing no signs of giving up their fight for a full Brexit (Getty)
There are no signs yet that Labour will whip for revoking Article 50 (Getty)

The reworked version also provides for a public inquiry to be set up within three months of revocation to look at Britain’s future relationship with the EU and whether a majority can get behind it.

Ms Cherry said the proposal has been tabled for Monday, although it will be up to the Speaker to decide which motions are selected.

Speaking on the Sunday Politics Scotland programme, she said: “I’ve worked very closely with some Labour MPs who didn’t feel able to support the way it was worded last time to craft it into a form that’s more palatable for them.”
Theresa May saw another defeat for her Brexit deal on Friday (Getty)

The MP continued: “I don’t know if Labour are going to whip for it yet, but I have been proactively approached by many Labour MPs who didn’t vote for it last time who want to support it this time round.”

On Labour’s way forward, Mr Sweeney told the show: “It’s about building a coalition that is going to come together and actually establish a majority for a way forward in Parliament.

“We are clear that some of the compromise options around a customs union and Common Market 2.0, as it’s known, is a clear runner. But we also want to make sure that any deal is subject to a confirmatory public vote.”

On the question of whether a reasonably long extension to Article 50 is now “inevitable”, he said: “I think it is inevitable. The prospect of crashing out with no deal is just so unpalatable to anyone, even the Government, in my opinion, that they wouldn’t entertain it.”

greybeard

2nd April 2019, 08:10

Brexit: May calls for cabinet showdown as MPs reject all options
The Guardian Heather Stewart, Jessica Elgot and Rowena Mason,The Guardian

Theresa May will summon her warring cabinet to Downing Street for a five-hour showdown on Tuesday after parliament once again failed to coalesce behind any alternative to her rejected Brexit deal.

Three options – a common market, a customs union and a second referendum – were all narrowly rejected in the process of indicative votes, prompting renewed talk of a swift general election.

After Conservative MPs failed to support any option in sufficient numbers, there were immediate recriminations in the House of Commons chamber.

The Tory MP Nick Boles declared that he had failed to persuade his colleagues to compromise with his “common market 2.0” plan and announced his departure from the party. Supporters of a second referendum from across parliament were also accused of increasing the risk of a no-deal by refusing to back soft Brexit options.

With just 10 days left until Britain is due to leave the EU without a deal unless the government secures a fresh delay from Brussels, the Brexit secretary, Steve Barclay, said the cabinet would have to decide the way forward.

“This house has continuously rejected leaving without a deal, just as it has rejected not leaving at all. Therefore the only option is to find a way through which allows the UK to leave with a deal,” he said.

One Downing Street adviser said that a snap election fronted by May was being “tested” and that it was viewed by some in the No 10 bunker as “the least worst option”.

Cabinet ministers were instructed to abstain from Monday’s voting process, which was devised by a cross-party alliance of MPs led by the former Conservative minister Oliver Letwin.

The customs union motion tabled by the former Tory chancellor Ken Clarke was rejected by a margin of just three votes, by 273 to 276, while a second Brexit referendum fell short of a majority by only 12 votes.

Related: How did each MP vote on the second round of indicative votes?

The Norway-style “common market 2.0” Brexit deal championed by Boles was also rejected, by 261 votes to 282, despite Labour frontbench and SNP support. Just 33 Conservative MPs backed it.

Boles said: “I have failed, chiefly because my party fails to compromise” – and made the dramatic announcement to MPs that he would no longer sit in the House of Commons as a Conservative before leaving the chamber.

His emotional statement emphasised the toxic atmosphere in the Tory party over Brexit. One outspoken leaver, Mark Francois, told the BBC’s World Tonight he believed the chancellor had been privately encouraging MPs to support a customs union, in what he called a “coup”.

“If you’re listening, Mr Hammond,” he added, “my fraternal message to you is: ‘Up yours!’” Less outspoken Brexiters were also delighted by Monday night’s deadlock, believing it will lead to a no-deal Brexit.

All three alternative Brexit options lost by a significantly narrower margin than the prime minister’s deal, however, which was rejected for a third time by 58 votes last Friday.

MPs also declined to back a separate attempt by the SNP MP Joanna Cherry to allow parliament to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

Related: Brexit: what are the four options and how did MPs vote?

After parliament had its say, cabinet ministers will have to decide whether to tack towards a closer future relationship with the EU in an attempt to build a majority; head for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April; or give May’s deal a final shot this week, probably on Wednesday.

Several cabinet ministers, including Andrea Leadsom and Liam Fox, are adamant that a no-deal exit would be preferable to a customs union – and they claim the support of more than half of the parliamentary party, many of whom signed a letter to May making the point.

The home secretary, Sajid Javid, a contender to succeed May as Conservative leader, made his position clear on Monday, tweeting that a customs union might appear to be “some kind of soft comfort blanket” but was “in reality more of a straitjacket”.

However, another well-organised group of ministers, including Amber Rudd and David Gauke, are determined to avoid no deal and believe May should instead seek a cross-party consensus.

A cabinet source said: “I honestly just think the prime minister needs to make a firm decision.”

Related: Electoral Commission says new Vote Leave investigation 'not in public interest'

Ministers have been told to expect three hours of political cabinet – excluding civil servants – on Tuesday morning, and another two hours of full cabinet in the afternoon.

May’s official spokesman underlined her continued objections to Britain remaining part of a customs union on Monday. “She has said on a number of occasions that she believes it is important for the UK to have its own trade policy,” he said.

No 10 has not ruled out bringing the prime minister’s deal back to the House of Commons for a fourth time if the Speaker will allow it.

May could table it together with an amendment submitted last week by the Labour MPs Gareth Snell and Lisa Nandy allowing parliament a greater say in the next stage of the Brexit negotiations. That could help the government to circumvent the Speaker’s ruling that May cannot bring her deal back unchanged.

May said last Friday that she would accept the Snell-Nandy amendment, and Conservative whips hope it could attract the support of a string of Labour MPs from pro-Brexit seats this week. But just five voted for her deal last week after hearing that she would back it.

If she brings her deal back, the prime minister is likely to seek to pit it against a backbench-led effort to push the government towards a softer deal, sharpening the dilemma for Brexiters, who prefer a cleaner break with the EU.

The schools minister, Nadhim Zahawi, said: “I would like the option that parliament comes up with put up against the prime minister’s deal. I am confident that the prime minister’s deal would win the day.”

She is also expected to point to the risks that failure to agree a solution could result in a risky general election.

Many Conservative MPs, including Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, changed sides to support her deal on Friday after May’s promise to leave Downing Street if she won the vote. May has invited those MPs who switched sides in favour of her deal to meet her, in the latest attempt to shore up support.

EU27 leaders have granted Britain an extension to the article 50 deadline to 12 April, but if May wants to avoid no deal she will have to request a longer extension at an emergency EU summit next week.

Brussels sources say that would be granted only if the prime minister points to a plausible alternative Brexit plan that could command the support of a stable majority in the Commons.

Related: UK 'silver spoon' cabinet will escape Brexit fallout, says German minister

While the backbench-led debate on Brexit options continued on Monday, MPs were also holding a separate discussion triggered by a mass petition calling for article 50 to be revoked, which has gained more than 6m signatures. The petition is the most popular in parliament’s history.

The Independent Group MP Chuka Umunna said young people would suffer the worst effects of no deal. “They are the ones who will never forgive this generation of politicians if we allow this catastrophe to happen,” he said.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-deadlock-continues-mps-fail-212649285.html

greybeard

2nd April 2019, 17:33

Brexit delayed for second time as Theresa May asks for further extension of Article 50
Yahoo News UK Will Metcalfe,Yahoo News UK

BREAKING: Theresa May says Brexit must be delayed again

Theresa May has said Brexit will be delayed for a second time.

Speaking after seven hours of talks the Prime Minister offered to meet Jeremy Corbyn to come up with a plan for Brexit.

The UK had been due to leave the European Union on March 29 but following a failure to reach a deal Brexit was delayed until April 12.

But on April 2 the Prime Minister told the nation she was requesting a further extension of Article 50.

Cabinet ministers arrived at Number 10 at around 9am for what was originally due to be a five-hour meeting.
Mrs May has offered to sit down with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to thrash out a Brexit agreement to ensure the UK does not leave the EU without a deal. (PA)

Mrs May said she hoped to agree a deal with Mr Corbyn which could be put to the Commons for approval before the April 10 European Council summit, but, if that cannot be achieved, then a number of alternative options could be put to the vote.

Insisting that any resolution should take the UK out of the EU by May 22, Mrs May said: “This is a decisive moment in the story of these islands and it will require national unity to deliver the national interest.”

Mrs May said: “I have always been clear that we could make a success of no-deal in the long term but leaving with a deal is the best solution.

“So we will need a further extension of Article 50 – one that is as short as possible and which ends when we pass a deal.

“And we need to be clear what such an extension is for: to ensure we leave in a timely and orderly way.

“This debate, this division, cannot drag on much longer.”

greybeard

3rd April 2019, 08:38

Mutiny! Tory MPs urge cabinet to oust May over Corbyn Brexit talks
Sky News Jon Craig, chief political correspondent,Sky News

Theresa May is facing a bitter backlash from Tory MPs after calling for national unity and offering talks with Jeremy Corbyn to agree a Brexit plan.

She is likely to face an onslaught from Conservative Brexiteers at Prime Ministers Questions this afternoon after her controversial proposal to negotiate with the Labour leader.

Ominously for the PM, Boris Johnson has joined the Brexiteer backlash, which has seen some Tory MPs urge cabinet ministers to stage a mutiny and move to oust her immediately.

With some Conservative MPs now fearing Brexit is in jeopardy, the former party leader Iain Duncan Smith told Sky News: "This is an utter disaster. We are just about to legitimise Corbyn. It's appalling."

Unveiling her new direction after a marathon seven-hour Cabinet meeting, the PM said: "This is a difficult time for everyone. Passions are running high on all sides of the argument.

"But we can and must find the compromises that will deliver what the British people voted for. This is a decisive moment in the story of these islands. And it requires national unity to deliver the national interest."

The PM's national unity move comes amid claims that at the Cabinet meeting 14 ministers backed a no-deal Brexit, with 10 against, but she chose to talk to Mr Corbyn instead.

Responding to Mrs May's statement, the Labour leader says he would be happy to meet the prime minister and is pleased she has indicated she will accept the will of parliament and is prepared to reach out.

"We hold in reserve our right to bring a motion of no confidence in the government if it proves it is incapable of commanding a majority in the Commons: time will tell on that," he said.

"Our priority is to make sure we don't crash out and is to make sure we have a government that does command a majority in the House and does indeed command the majority support across the country. At the moment we don't have that."

Mr Corbyn says his demands in his talks with the PM will include:
:: A customs union with the EU and access to markets
:: Protecting consumer and environmental standards and workers' rights
:: Guaranteeing the Good Friday Agreement

But pro-Remain Labour MPs - backed by deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer - are also demanding a referendum on the Brexit deal.

On the Tory back benches, the PM's offer to Mr Corbyn has inflamed the party's civil war.

Speaking after a meeting of the European Research Group (ERG) that MPs present told Sky News was "tempestuous", leader Jacob Rees-Mogg said: "I think getting the support of a known Marxist is not likely to instil confidence in Conservatives.

"This approach to government is an unsuccessful one and it also lacks democratic legitimacy.

"People did not vote for a Corbyn-May coalition government - they voted for a Conservative government, which became a confidence and supply with the DUP.

"This is a deeply unsatisfactory approach - it's not in the interests of the country, it fails to deliver on the referendum result and history doesn't bode well for it."

Mr Johnson, who is campaigning for the Tory leadership, said: "It is very disappointing that the cabinet has decided to entrust the final handling of Brexit to Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party."

And Tory MP Henry Smith tweeted: "Theresa May represents a monumental failure of British leadership, a betrayal of the majority who voted to leave the EU and Conservative Party membership.

"I called for her to go last year, incredibly she has descended further still. I cannot countenance her Corbyn/Brexit process."

Another senior ERG member Daniel Kawczynski told Sky News: "Somebody has to take the first step now and say 'I voted against the withdrawal agreement on three occasions but now I'll back the PM, because I can see us losing Brexit'.

"And if we were to lose Brexit the electorate would pass judgement on the Conservative Party."

There was also a hostile reaction from the Democratic Unionist Party, whose MPs said in a statement: "The prime minister's lamentable handling of the negotiations with the EU means she has failed to deliver a sensible Brexit deal that works for all parts of the United Kingdom.

"That is why she has not been able to get it through parliament. Her announcement therefore tonight comes as little surprise.

"Though it remains to be seen if sub-contracting out the future of Brexit to Jeremy Corbyn, someone whom the Conservatives have demonised for four years, will end happily.

"We want the result of the referendum respected, and just as we joined the common market as one country we must leave the EU as one country.

"We will continue to use our position within parliament and with the government to argue strongly the case for Northern Ireland and the integrity of the United Kingdom.

"We remain consistent in judging all Brexit outcomes against our clear unionist principles."

But defending the Prime Minister on Sky News, environment secretary Michael Gove insisted the Conservative Party was not going to split over her latest decision.

"I don't think we're splitting," he said. "I think what we're doing is ensuring everybody is focused on making sure we leave the EU at the earliest possible point."

On the DUP saying it could not back the current deal, Mr Gove said: "We want the DUP to support our approach. I think it's important we leave the EU as one UK."

And on his own leadership ambitions, Mr Gove added: "I'm concentrating on making sure we leave the EU, that is front and centre of my mind and everything else is secondary."

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/mutiny-tory-mps-urge-cabinet-oust-may-over-004000000.html

greybeard

3rd April 2019, 16:58

'She's f***** us': Livid Tory Brexiteers lash out at Theresa May for opening door to Labour collaboration
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK

Tories have continued to vent their intense anger at Theresa May over her decision to meet with Jeremy Corbyn for talks over the Brexit deadlock.

Two ministers quit in protest today with a host of Tory MPs also speaking out. One, Caroline Johnson, highlighted what she called “the risk of letting down the country and ushering in a Marxist, anti-Semite-led government”.

Mrs May said on Tuesday that she would seek an extension beyond next week to allow negotiations with the Labour leader aimed at getting a Brexit deal through Parliament.

Mr Corbyn said he would be “very happy” to meet the Prime Minister in a bid to offer “certainty and security” to the British people – but Tory Brexiteers have reacted with anger.

Mr Corbyn said his demands in Brexit talks would be a customs union with the EU and access to markets, as well as protecting consumer and environmental standards and workers’ rights and guaranteeing the Good Friday Agreement.

However, he stopped short of demanding a second referendum, despite huge pressure from MPs in his own party.

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay admitted today that another Brexit vote is an option on the table in the talks between two leaders.

Mrs May met Mr Corbyn on Wednesday afternoon before holding talks with Nicola Sturgeon, who warned that she wasn’t “entirely clear” where the PM was prepared to compromise.

greybeard

4th April 2019, 08:42

Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.”

Watch the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uMe5FmqH8&feature=youtu.be

Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-04-01/debates/DAEA92D0-DB85-4370-B65C-2BB2FF6B5AE9/LeavingTheEuropeanUnion

Read the research: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/

The petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Brexit: bill to prevent no-deal passes Commons by one vote
The Guardian Jessica Elgot Chief political correspondent,The Guardian

A cross-party group of MPs has forced through an emergency bill in less than six hours to instruct Theresa May to seek an extension to article 50 and avoid a no-deal Brexit, despite government opposition.
The bill, spearheaded by Labour’s Yvette Cooper and the Conservative Sir Oliver Letwin, passed late into the night, with MPs defeating a number of obstructive amendments from both Brexiters and the government.

It finally passed its third reading about half an hour before midnight by just one vote – 313 ayes to 312 noes – and must now pass the House of Lords.

The bill was almost scuppered during a frenzied day in parliament after MPs initially voted by a majority of just one – 312 to 311 – to let the snap bill proceed.
Cooper and Letwin then had six hours to pass the bill’s second reading, committee stage and third reading through the House of Commons.

Minutes before the narrow first vote, an amendment from Labour’s Hilary Benn to grant more time was blocked in extraordinary circumstances, as the Speaker, John Bercow, was forced to make the casting vote after a tied result in the Commons.

Benn’s amendment, which would have given MPs control over the order paper on Monday to hold further indicative votes, fell after MPs’ votes were tied with 310 each way.

Bercow said it was precedent for the Speaker to vote with the government, which had opposed the motion and the amendments. “In accordance with precedent and on the principle that important decisions should not be taken except by majority, I cast my vote with the noes,” he said. “That is the proper way in which to proceed.”

The Speaker said the situation had not occurred since 1993, a vote that had involved the Maastricht treaty bill.

The government opposed both the Cooper-Letwin motion and Benn’s amendment. The Commons leader, Andrea Leadsom, argued earlier in the debate that the government had already said it would request a short extension.

Speaking in the debate, Letwin said the government’s plan to seek an extension was an “enormously welcome development” and he did not have doubts that they would seek to avoid a no-deal Brexit, but there was still a need to pass legislation.

The veteran Brexiter Bill Cash called the bill “reprehensible” and said it would set a terrible precedent for the government to rush through legislation in a single day. “This is something profoundly undemocratic,” he said.

Cooper said the bill would deliberately not specify the length of an extension. “It should be for the prime minister to put a proposal forward,” she said. “It is right she puts that forward, and then the house will decide.”

Labour and the SNP whipped in support of the motion. MPs voted through the second stage of the bill at 7pm and after voting on a long series of amendments passed it around 11.30pm.

During the marathon session of late night votes, 91 Conservative MPs rebelled against a government amendment which would have allowed the Brexit secretary to agree an extension date without needing parliament’s approval. Dozens of Tory Brexiters opposed the amendment, suggesting Eurosceptics wanted to reserve the right to vote down a long extension.

The newly passed legislation could be debated in the Lords as soon as Friday or Monday, where it is likely to encounter attempts to frustrate its progress by Eurosceptic peers. However, Labour sources in the Lords said supportive peers were preparing to stay up all night to insure against any attempts to filibuster the legislation.

greybeard

4th April 2019, 13:09

I have noticed those that shout loudest about the will of the people are dead against asking the people what they would vote for now in another referendum--curious.
Seems a bit hypocritical---people do change their minds.
More might be for leaving now or not at the case might be.
Chris

15 ministers 'close to quitting' as Philip Hammond says second referendum is credible
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK 6

Philip Hammond has said a second Brexit referendum is a ‘perfectly credible’ option as warring ministers continue to clash over Brexit.

The Chancellor warned that UK faces a potentially lengthy delay to Brexit and indicated the Tories could be prepared to compromise on a customs union – an idea that enrages Brexiteer ministers.

Arch Eurosceptic MP Steve Baker told MailOnline: “The Chancellor has come up with about the stupidest suggestion I could imagine. Look at the rage and despair created by asking Parliament to choose between Brexit in name only or no Brexit, and then imagine the public reaction.

“Is he trying to destroy all faith in democracy?”

Theresa May’s decision to meet with Jeremy Corbyn and seek a softer Brexit has already cost her two ministers – with many more reportedly ready to quit.

According to The Sun, 10 junior ministers and five members of the cabinet are said to be “on the edge” of resigning in protest at the Prime Minister’s plans.

One of those ministers told the paper: “Many, many colleagues in government are just seething and a lot of us are on the edge now – some over a customs union, others over European Parliament elections.

“What’s for sure is if she asks for a long extension next week it will mean mass resignations.”

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/15-ministers-verge-quitting-theresa-mays-plan-softer-brexit-065503678.html

Matthew

4th April 2019, 19:46

avid

4th April 2019, 20:14

Just to remind folks what happened to Ireland when they voted a resounding NO to the Lisbon Treaty...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty
They had to vote ‘again’ under duress until the EU directive was satisfied.... truly horrendous, blackmail, is this what is now happening via the globalist ‘lobby’ in the UK? Swiftly going in that direction....

greybeard

4th April 2019, 20:15

The British people had a say, in an epic and historical referendum. The referendum was about leave or stay. The way the European Commission has negotiated it's as if the British people voted for a new deal. We didn't, we voted to leave. No-deal Brexit was meant to kick in if the European Commission couldn't understand what 'leave' meant. (It's only remainers who complain Brexit wasn't clearly represented by the way, not Brexiteers.)

Greybeard I want to ask you, when Scotland finally leave the UK (more correctly to say if, but what I hear in conversations with Scottish friends makes me think it's simply a matter of time and patience, but is inevitable), and after that referendum in which Scotland vote to leave the UK, you would expect to leave? Or would you think it ok for English sympathisers to lobby for another Scottish referendum?

ts a fair question YoYo.
I dont have a position but I do observe lies on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Before the referendum the public were lied to blatantly--we would be more prosperous the NHS would have much more money--we would have trade deals with the rest of the world--none of this is true--Japanese car manufacturers are pulling out--they need us in the market to export cars easily to Europe.
All the forecasts are that UK will be worse off out of the EU market--not saying I believe any stories for or against.

Scotland voted to stay in the EU--The SNP has been clear about home rule for a long time.
Now if that happens and Scotland is in the EU and England is not then there would be a hard border between England and Scotland.
I havent voted since I was 18 and I am not going to vote for Home Rule
If Brexit happens in any shape or form I accept that--If it does not happen then I accept that.

At one point in time I was the local chairman of the FSB Federation of Small Business.
The rules and regulations that came from being in the EU were copper plated by our civil servants quite often
A few paragraphs became pages.
However business suffered with the regulations--they were expensive to implement.
Some health and safety were sensible and good.

Whatever way it goes some will benefit and some will not thats life.

A referendum is different from a vote.
If Scottish people vote for the SNP then they know and have known for years where that is likley to go.
A referendum is not legally binding.
The Scots did not vote for Brexit but if it happens they will have to accept it

However its hypothetical as is your question--I doubt that Scotland will ever get home rule.

Chris

greybeard

4th April 2019, 20:41

Three quarters of Corbyn’s constituents back Final Say on Brexit, poll reveals, with Labour leader under pressure from party to secure new referendum
The Independent Tom Barnes,The Independent

Three quarters of Corbyn’s constituents back Final Say on Brexit, poll reveals, with Labour leader under pressure from party to secure new referendum

Three quarters of Jeremy Corbyn’s own constituents back a Final Say referendum on Brexit, new polling has revealed, as the Labour leader faces pressure from within his parliamentary party to back a second vote.

A nationwide survey of 9,500 people conducted by campaign group Right to Vote found 58.1 per cent who expressed a view, now want another public vote on the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union.

Polling found high levels of support for the idea in London, including in Mr Corbyn’s Islington North seat, where 75 per cent of those polled backed a Final Say.

In Theresa May’s Maidenhead constituency, 59 per cent of voters also supported the idea.

The same percentage of voters in leading Brexiteer Boris Johnson’s Uxbridge and Ruislip South constituency were also behind the idea of a public vote.

Conservative MP Dr Phillip Lee, chair of Right to Vote, revealed the findings at Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday – a day after Ms May announced she would be seeking another extension to Article 50.

The group was formed by several MPs in January in response to what it describes as the “government’s failure to navigate Brexit”.

Members include former Tory ministers Dominic Grieve, Justine Greening and Sam Gyimah, as well as Independent Group MPs Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Dr Sarah Wollaston, who quit the party in February.

“Asking for more time and opposition help to salvage a deal nobody wants is yet again merely delaying the moment of truth,” Mr Grieve said. “We need a meaningful delay to agree a practical and credible proposal which can be put to the people for a final say. What started with the people should end with the people.”

The new polling data comes as senior figures within Labour demand Mr Corbyn seeks to secure a second referendum as part of any cross-party Brexit deal struck with Ms May.

A string of Labour MPs, including frontbenchers such as shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry, have written an open letter to Mr Corbyn in The Independent, insisting it would be “untenable for Labour not to insist” on taking the decision back to the public.

Mr Corbyn is holding talks with the prime minister in a bid to break the impasse in parliament and find a Brexit deal that can win enough support to get through the Commons.

“The views of members are clear. Labour’s democratically established policy, passed at party conference in September 2018, is to oppose a Brexit deal which does not meet Labour’s six tests and put any deal that does to a public vote,” the group of Labour MPs wrote in their open letter. “It would be untenable for Labour not to insist on a public vote on a deal which did not meet these tests.”

“We – your supporters – urge you to make a confirmatory public vote your bottom line in negotiations with Theresa May and to fight to bring this government down.”

Source note: Data was collected by FocalData from multiple researchers, including Opinium, between 1 March and 1 April 2019. A sample of 9,500 adults were interviewed from 632 constituencies across Britain. Opinium are members of the British Polling Council and abide by their rule

Matthew

4th April 2019, 21:09

greybeard

4th April 2019, 21:29

Mathew yes on the whole I think Scottish MPs are honest and genuinely supportive of those less well off.
People matter.

I suspect that there will be another referendum and Brexit wont happen, people will probably vote for the status quo

Because Im a pensioner the result is not so relevant to me personally.
So I can sit and watch without getting stressed by it all.

I appreciate that it is vitally important to many.

My three sons and son in law are self employed and they may well be affected by the end result which ever way it goes.
.Time will tell.
Chris

Matthew

4th April 2019, 21:38

Every region of England and Wales happy to leave the EU without a deal - except London if extension refused
Christopher Hope, chief political correspondent, The Torygraph, 3 APRIL 2019 • 6:33PM. I mean Telegraph.

Every English and Welsh region outside the M25 is happy to leave the European Union without a deal if no agreement can be reached by the end of next week.

The study by YouGov asked voters “if Britain has not agreed a deal by April 12th, what do you think should happen?”.

The research found that only people living in London did not want to leave without a deal.

In London 48 per cent of voters agreed that “Britain should withdraw our application to leave and remain in the EU” against 26pc who backed leaving without a deal.

The picture was reversed outside London however. In the rest of the South of England 44pc were in favour of no-deal against 34pc who wanted to revoke the decision to leave.

(continued...)

Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/03/english-welsh-voters-outside-m25-back-leaving-eu-immediately/

norman

4th April 2019, 22:26

Every region of England and Wales happy to leave the EU without a deal - except London if extension refused

That will probably scare the rats out of giving the people a stage 2 vote then.

greybeard

5th April 2019, 10:03

Britain heading for further Brexit delay as PM asks Tusk for second extension
Yahoo News UK Jane Howdle,Yahoo News UK

Prime Minister Theresa May and European Council president Donald Tusk (PA)

Theresa May has written to the EU asking for a further delay to Brexit.

The PM has this time asked European Council president Donald Tusk for an extension to Article 50 to June 30.

Meanwhile, Tusk and other EU officials are considering offering the PM a flexible extension – or “flextension” – to the Article 50 timetable to March 31 2020.

According to the BBC, Tusk is preparing to put the option to EU leaders at a crunch summit next Wednesday in a bid to prevent the UK crashing out of the bloc on April 12.

Top-level talks aimed at finding a way out of the Brexit deadlock will continue between the Government and Labour today (Friday).

The discussions are taking place as Theresa May battles to keep her EU withdrawal agenda on track, with the issue of a new Brexit referendum continuing to be a focus of attention.

Ministers have considered the possibility of giving MPs a vote on holding a referendum on a deal as part of the talks with Labour, the Daily Telegraph reported.

It is understood the Government could set out proposals to Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in a letter today (Friday).

And Mrs May faced a continued challenge to her authority from Parliament as the House of Lords debated a Bill aimed at extending the Brexit process in a bid to avoid a no-deal scenario.
Theresa May’s letter to Donald Tusk (PA)

The remaining stages of the European Union Withdrawal (No.5) Bill will be considered by peers on Monday, threatening a new political headache for the PM if it is approved.

The Bill, brought forward by backbenchers including Labour’s Yvette Cooper, allows Parliament to determine the length of any Brexit extension the Prime Minister should request at the EU summit on April 10.

If the European Council proposes a different extension, Mrs May would be required to return to the Commons to obtain MPs’ approval.

Attorney General Geoffrey Cox said the Bill would leave the PM with little room to manoeuvre.

Referring to the Bill’s impact on a no-deal option, the Attorney General told the BBC: “It rules it out… the Prime Minister would have little choice but to accept the extension that she’s offered.”
Prime Minister Theresa May pictured during Prime Minister’s Questions in the House of Commons on April 3 (House of Commons/PA Wire)

Labour MP Siobhain McDonagh predicted a number of her colleagues could quit the party over the issue of a new referendum.

Ms McDonagh told the BBC: “There is going to be outrage if we don’t get a second vote.

“Would it be the thing that made me leave the party? I don’t think so, there are other issues for me.

“But, would it make some of my colleagues in the parliamentary Labour Party? Yes, a number have said to me that would be the moment that they would leave.”

However, a number of Labour MPs representing Leave areas have come out against the idea of a confirmatory referendum.

greybeard

5th April 2019, 10:59

Does this mean UK will have to vote British MEPs?

I dont go looking for news I just post the Yahoo quotes.
Accepting that Yahoo may have bias--which I dont have.

As said before its the best soap of the moment.
I think I have it figured out and "wham bam" off we go in another direction.
Chris

norman

5th April 2019, 12:41

This video starts off looking like it's going to be about 'Trump' but it's really about the crooks running Britain, and their determination to shut down the flow of informantion that "caused the brexit vote"....

LD6dAFG48JU
https://yt3.ggpht.com/a-/AAuE7mDbrhwxLzZ2641P151uO9TragggwgbeTT8TtA=s48-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCfyb3alAocZgfmR9RDOkdQ)Fight Globalism (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCfyb3alAocZgfmR9RDOkdQ)
Published on 2 Apr 2019

New leaked Documents by Anonymous reveals the British aspects to Spygate. Our age-old enemy revealed... Is this an Act of War by a hostile foreign power? Working with Communist's within our own government? Comey was a Communist, Christopher Steel was a Fabian Socialist, just like Tony Blair. Their motto is "Light the World on Fire, and Remold it nearer to the heart's desire"

Exposing a sinister state-funded underhand influence network .Internal documents talk of creating a "network of networks" to fight "malign" Russian influence. Applications for funding from the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) promise to set up over a dozen undercover "clusters" of "competent, committed and well-connected individuals, ideally with a suitable institute affiliation" from Canada to Germany to Georgia that would be deployed in the service of specific anti-Russian "goals."

We are in a fight for the future of humanity. If the patriots of America don't fight back peacefully and politically in the information war, I am afraid we will see a World Wide Collectivist Scientific Oligarchy, that will last for 1,000 generations. This is not a game.

Did You See Them

5th April 2019, 14:45

I'm sure this has already been posted but this about sums up what damage has been done to 100% of UK populations trust in government

Eu6PIUT8M-A

greybeard

5th April 2019, 15:46

Norman Im well aware that whoever controls the media controls the world.
Thats one of the reasons I dont take sides--its never that clear which is the best option for the population and which media report is honest and not being directed by these people.
Avalon is no doubt being studied by these people to see if they are successful in influencing public opinion.
It says in the video u posted "They ran a smear campaign against the SNP and other domestic opponents of the powers that be" thats at just after the 26 minute mark
(Spygate video) That begs the question are these guys trying to get us to leave the EU as SNP is for staying.
Still working my way through the video Norman--thanks for that,

Chris

greybeard

5th April 2019, 16:50

EU slaps down Jacob Rees-Mogg for suggesting UK should deliberately cause chaos if Brexit is delayed
The Independent Jon Stone,The Independent 4 hours ago

EU slaps down Jacob Rees-Mogg for suggesting UK should deliberately cause chaos if Brexit is delayed

Brussels has slapped down Jacob-Rees Mogg after the leading Brexiteer suggested the UK should wilfully cause chaos at the EU institutions if Brexit was delayed.

A spokesperson for the European Commission suggested that the Tory MP was essentially irrelevant and not involved in negotiations.

“This gentleman is not our interlocutor and I would say then that the principle of sincere cooperation does apply, as prime minister May herself makes clear in her letter,” the spokesperson told reporters in Brussels.

“I would also say that this is a hypothetical question because it supposes, or presupposed an extension, which is yet to be seen by our leaders.”

Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament’s Brexit coordinator, also piled in. Seizing on Mr Mogg’s comments, he said: “For those in the EU who may be tempted to further extend the Brexit saga, I can only say, be careful what you wish for.”

Mr Rees-Mogg, a leading figure in the eurosceptic ERG group of Tory MPs, had said on Friday morning that “if a long extension leaves us stuck in the EU we should be as difficult as possible”.

He suggested: “We could veto any increase in the budget, obstruct the putative EU army and block Mr Macron’s integrationist schemes”.

Theresa May has requested yet another delay to the Brexit date, which will be considered by the 27 remaining presidents and prime ministers at a special meeting in the Belgian capital on Wednesday. It is understood that EU officials are considering offering Britain a one-year extension until the end of March 2020, with the ability to cut it short if the UK ratifies the withdrawal agreement by then.

This gentleman is not our interlocutor

EU commission spokesperson

The prime minister has requested only a short extension until the end of June, but is thought ot be unlikely to get it. A longer extension as favoured by the European Council would see the UK participate in European Parliament elections if it was still in the EU by the 22 May.

After last month's summit a senior EU official said the bloc was well aware of the risk posed by Brexiteers who might be minded to deliberately cause chaos in Brussels if the UK remained.

“On the one hand, the UK has been behaving in accordance with the obligation of sincere cooperation until now. And at the same time… we do also read the British press, and we have seen some comments that maybe we should take this opportunity to break the union from the inside," the senior official said.

“I don’t think that will be possible, and I think any British government will understand that that’s not a promising way forward. We luckily have qualified majority voting on most issues these days and if we don’t, I’m sure we’d find ways of dealing with it if these things were to happen.”

Various senior EU figures, including Emmanuel Macron, have said any further extension of Article 50 would require a justification, which could be time to hold a general election, second referendum, or a political process in the UK to reach a majority.

The prime minister's team is currently locked in talks with Labour in an attempt to bring about a cross party conensus in Westminster.
image

'No real change or compromise': Brexit talks break down as May fails to win over Labour
Yahoo News UK Yahoo UK Staff,Yahoo News UK

Talks between Theresa May and the Labour party to try and break the Brexit deadlock have faltered already.

The opposition said the Government has failed to offer any compromises over Brexit following three days of talks.

Labour say the Mrs May’s team refused to reopen the ‘political declaration’ – the framework needed for a future trade deal that must accompany the withdrawal agreement.

Labour claim they were only being offered a ‘memorandum’ that would be placed alongside the withdrawal agreement.

Shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said Mrs May did not offer any concrete changes to the existing withdrawal agreement.

Sir Starmer said the Government was ‘not countenancing any changes’ to the wording of the political declaration, which sets out the framework for the future UK-EU relationship.

In a sign that talks with ministers have so far failed to produce a breakthrough, he said: ‘Well, we’ve had two rounds of talks and today we’ve had an exchange of correspondence with the Government.

‘So far, the Government isn’t proposing any changes to the deal. In particular it’s not countenancing any changes to the actual wording of the political declaration.

‘Now obviously that’s disappointing; compromise requires change. We want the talks to continue and we’ve written in those terms to the Government, but we do need change if we’re going to compromise.’

greybeard

5th April 2019, 17:08

I suspect that is really about control.
Divide and conquer
Through the media misinformation confrontation is set up.
Those for and against Brexit set against each other.
All fear based.
Im taking that in part from the video that Norman posted.

norman

5th April 2019, 18:45

There are a few things in that video that conflict and break logic.

The elephant in the room is the increasing dependence by Europe ( AND the UK ) on Russian Gas. If they are serious about an alternative energy supply, what sort of regime and deal do they want in America?

Apparently not Trump, but, he's the one telling Merkel and the whole of Europe they're nuts to be snuggling up to Russia for an energy supply. It's very confusing right now. I'm sure I haven't really grasped the whole picture yet. I'm not 100% sure the maker of that video was even trying to help me to.

greybeard

5th April 2019, 20:30

News
Nicola Sturgeon tells EU citizens: ‘This is your home, you are welcome here’
PA Ready News UK By Lewis McKenzie, Political Reporter, Press Association Scotland,PA Ready News UK

Scotland's First Minister has written an open letter as Prime Minister Theresa May seeks a further extension to the UK's departure date.

Nicola Sturgeon has written an open letter to EU citizens living in Scotland, telling them: “This is your home, you are welcome here and we want you to stay.”

In her letter, made available in several different languages, the First Minister wrote that the hardest part of Brexit had been meeting people from the EU who have no certainty over whether they will be able to stay in the country.

The announcement was made as Prime Minister Theresa May wrote to European Council president Donald Tusk on Friday to request an extension to Article 50 until June 30.

The UK is due to leave the EU at the end of next week but Mrs May will now seek to delay Brexit again after her deal was rejected for a third time last week.

Ms Sturgeon said: “As EU citizens in the UK, you have had to endure years of careless indecision on what the future holds for your lives, your careers and your families.

“Many of you have been living in Scotland for several years and have built your lives and raised your families here.

“The hardest part of dealing with Brexit has been meeting EU citizens across Scotland, who want to stay here but who do not know what steps they need to take and whether their rights will be secured.”

She added: “The closer we move towards the UK’s exit from the European Union, the more real and substantial reassurances about your rights and position in this country you need.

“As the First Minister of Scotland, I want to thank you for the contribution you make to Scotland.

“I am proud to say this is your home, you are welcome here and we want you to stay.”

Ms Sturgeon also announced the Scottish Government has established a Stay in Scotland package for EU citizens to help them remain in the country.

The package includes a £250,000 pledge for community-based support across Scotland, the establishment of a support and advice service for EU citizens who have more complex needs or particular challenges and a toolkit for employers, including posters, factsheets, digital content and guides directing EU citizens to further guidance.

greybeard

7th April 2019, 07:29

How cross-party Brexit talks left both sides frustrated
The Guardian Michael Savage,The Guardian

As Labour’s Brexit negotiating team headed for the Cabinet Office buffet after a morning of intense talks with their Tory counterparts on Thursday, one concern was already nagging away at them. The discussions had been good-natured, thorough, serious – but had also felt a bit like a re-education programme.

After grabbing their sandwiches and cake, Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, and other members of Labour’s team slipped off to a small room to meet in private. They had all come to the same conclusion. As well-intentioned as the talks had been, they were essentially being told, in the most polite terms possible, that they should simply reconsider backing May’s clever deal, which they just hadn’t quite understood.

Related: My not-so-cross-party audience with Theresa May was a long time coming

The offer of cross-party talks by the prime minister on Tuesday night shocked MPs in both parties. The usually lively WhatsApp group of Tory MPs went quiet for four hours, before someone tentatively asked: “Is anyone there… ?” Meanwhile, the Labour figures primed to take part in the talks hoped this was the moment May had accepted reality – that, with no majority for her deal, she had to entertain some of Labour’s demands and alter the “political declaration”, which sets out the broad aims of Britain’s future relationship with the EU.

There was no obvious breakthrough in initial talks between Jeremy Corbyn and May on Wednesday, which took place over less than two hours in the prime minister’s House of Commons office. As is her style, May gave little away as the Labour team set out their problems with the current deal and raised the issue of a confirmatory vote.

Other MPs to hold a meeting with May last week found the same issue. When Labour MP Rupa Huq met the prime minister, she attempted to break the ice by talking about the TV programmes Bodyguard and Fleabag. May had seen neither. The prime minister and her aide chanted in unison that she “prefers [US crime drama] NCIS”.

Putting the lack of an obvious shift down to the prime minister’s passive style, Corbyn’s team pinned their hopes on Thursday’s longer and more detailed talks, taking place in the cabinet office and chaired by David Lidington, May’s pragmatic de facto deputy.

Starmer, Labour’s chief whip Nick Brown and the shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey led the team. The morning was largely dominated by the issues that risk causing friction at the border and damaging trade – leaving the EU’s customs union and single market. Olly Robbins, May’s chief Brexit negotiator, gave a detailed account of how May’s current deal was, in effect, a customs union – and would also see Britain align with the single market.

The government’s team was effectively stating that their deal contained measures that they had publicly said they were against. Labour’s team asked how Britain’s future EU deal could be altered and shaped. The queries were met with detailed and calm explanation about the EU’s position and what could and had been attempted. By lunch, Labour had detected a reluctance to actually make any significant changes.
Gavin Barwell, No 10 chief of staff, leaves the Cabinet Office in Whitehall. Gavin Barwell, No 10 chief of staff, leaves the Cabinet Office in Whitehall. Photograph: Mark Thomas/Rex

“They were essentially setting out why the deal was very good and how we hadn’t quite understood how good it was,” said one source familiar with the talks. “How, if you look carefully, it is a customs union and it is alignment with the single market. It was a really good, interesting technical exposition of the deal – but it was pretty clear they were selling their deal rather than explaining how they would change it.”

After lunch, national security and workers’ rights were examined –with Labour asking for worker protections to be beefed up. Discussion kept coming back to one point, made repeatedly by Starmer – how on earth could Labour have any confidence that a new Tory leader, perhaps Boris Johnson or former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab, would honour anything agreed at these talks? It is also the latest argument being deployed by campaigners for a second referendum to dissuade Labour MPs from backing any deal.

Then the Downing Street team made what they thought was a big offer. They said that to make Labour feel like it had some control over the future trade deal secured with the EU, they would accept a plan drawn up by Labour backbenchers Lisa Nandy and Gareth Snell, handing parliament some control over the parameters of future EU talks. They even offered to enshrine the idea in law.

The Tory team were baffled that Labour did not see this as a big win. For Labour’s team, the offer amounted to very little – it still required Labour to vote through a deal with no guarantees about the future, while handing parliament a say did not guarantee that Labour’s demands would be heeded.

The meeting ended on another difficult note as Labour brought up the issue of a second referendum – or a “confirmatory vote” on May’s deal. According to some in the room, it was the most uncomfortable moment, with Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, making it clear how difficult the idea would be for the government.

When a government document on the talks arrived with Labour on Friday – making no indication that the government was willing to alter the political declaration in May’s deal – Labour decided to speak out about the apparent unwillingness to compromise. That prompted a denial from Downing Street, with Philip Hammond, the chancellor, stating that there were no “red lines” in the talks.

Both sides insisted on Saturday night that technical discussions were taking place and talks would continue. Figures on both sides also said that there was a more difficult issue that had not yet had serious discussion: if no cross-party deal can be reached, can the two parties agree to a series of votes in parliament that will solve the Brexit impasse, once and for all?

Senior figures on both sides suggested that the idea, raised by the prime minister as part of her invitation to Labour on Tuesday, had not yet been raised. “There’s a sense that the government is backing away from that,” said one person involved. “Once you hold those, you have no idea where it goes.”

The idea is fraught with danger for second referendum campaigners, too. “We don’t want a situation where a second vote is accidentally killed off,” said one insider. “The best thing would be a long extension [to Britain’s EU membership].”
Theresa May’s director of communications, Robbie Gibb. Theresa May’s director of communications, Robbie Gibb. Photograph: Steve Back/Getty Images
The Tory Team

Robbie Gibb

Downing Street director of communications and former BBC editor. Accused by MP Nick Boles of being in favour of hard Brexit.

David Lidington

Theresa May’s de facto deputy and former Europe minister who is seen as a non-divisive figure by Labour’s team, but distrusted by Tory Brexiters.

Steve Barclay

Brexit secretary who was a surprise choice after Dominic Raab quit. Wants to keep open the option of leaving the EU with no deal.

Gavin Barwell

Former Croydon MP and the prime minister’s amiable chief of staff. Has been giving presentations on May’s deal in the hope of gaining supporters.

The Labour Team

Seumas Milne

Labour strategy and communications director, who has significant influence on the Labour leader. Regarded as a Eurosceptic.

Nick Brown

Party veteran and Labour chief whip, who has the job of working out what most Labour MPs can accept. Respected by the Tory team.

Rebecca Long-Bailey

Shadow business secretary and protege of John McDonnell, who leads on Labour’s concerns about workers’ rights after Brexit.

Keir Starmer

Shadow Brexit secretary who has a key role in Labour’s cross-party talks and has argued in favour of keeping a second referendum on the table.

greybeard

8th April 2019, 15:45

Leading Brexiteer Peter Oborne Calls For 'Long Pause' To Leaving And Admits Economic Arguments 'Destroyed'
HuffPost UK Graeme Demianyk,HuffPost UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/leading-brexiteer-peter-oborne-calls-213940300.html

A prominent supporter of Brexit has called for a “long pause” over quitting the European Union - and even suggested “rethinking the decision altogether”.

Peter Oborne, a respected writer and Daily Mail columnist, argues the country should take up European Council President Donald Tusk’s offer of a year’s delay as he contends Brexit has “paralysed the system”.

His position is driven by the economic impact of the “flood” of companies quitting the country, the possible break-up of the United Kingdom and the “deceit” of the Leave campaign.

Oborne also hits out at fellow Brexiteers for the “succession of claims about leaving the EU that have turned out to be untrue”.

“I argue, as a Brexiteer, that we need to take a long deep breath. We need to swallow our pride, and think again. Maybe it means rethinking the Brexit decision altogether,” he writes.

Author ofThe Rise of Political Lyingand ex-chief commentator at the Daily Telegraph, Oborne is noted as an independent thinker.

The high-profile Conservative raised eyebrows in 2014 and 2015 for repeatedly praising Ed Miliband as a “principled and courageous” politician, despite the then-Labour leader battling David Cameron for Number 10.

Oborne has frequently criticised Conservative government policy on the Middle East, particular around Saudi Arabia, but remained a passionate supporter of Brexit, often slamming the “hypocrisy” of EU leaders.

His apparent about-turn comes as Theresa May attempts to thrash out a compromise deal with Jeremy Corbyn, and will next week find out whether the remaining 27 EU countries will agree to a second extension to delay Brexit.

Without the delay or an agreement that can finally pass through parliament, the UK is set to leave the bloc on Friday without a deal.

In a piece for the Open Democracy website, Oborne writes that Brexit has “turned Britain into a laughing stock”.

He points to a series of companies that have made investment decisions following the referendum, including Nissan, Sony and Dyson, and expresses his sadness as “the trickle of companies announcing plans to leave Britain has turned into a flood”.

In a key line, he says: “If we are honest, we Brexiteers have to admit that the economic arguments for Brexit have been destroyed by a series of shattering blows.”

He also writes that Britain’s departure from the EU will be as “great a disaster for our country as the over-mighty unions were in the 1960s and 1970s”.

Arguing that investors and the hard left have been the most vocal in support of Brexit, he says: “When hedge-fund managers and the Communist Party see eye-to-eye on any question, it’s time to be concerned.”

He warns a “clumsily executed Brexit” will hit wages, jobs and public services and that there is “zero chance” of a “sensible Brexit” given the “pandemonium and hysteria at Westminster just now”.

Oborne thinks a Tory leadership contest, triggered after May announced she would stand down once a deal passes, adds to it being the “worse time to make the decision about how to leave Europe”.

He goes on to defend his position as a Brexiteer, arguing the EU is “not democratic”. He adds: “Part of me, therefore, still feels proud of Brexit. Well done Britain for challenging remote oligarchs based in Brussels.”

But he counters that the “bitter and angry debate” since has led him to conclude that “this is not just a simple problem of whether or not we are patriots”.

He says: “I readily accept that the European Union is a dysfunctional body beset by all manner of problems. But the lesson of the last two years is that we are much better off working inside the EU ... for reform and not as a hostile neighbour.”

He also fears that “like almost everybody else” the importance of the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland has been “underestimated”: “We’ve all misunderstood the Irish question, even though it has loomed so large in our history for the last 500 years.”

After finally railing against the “false prospectus” offered by Brexiteers, he concludes the UK should “grab (Tusk’s) kindly offer of a year’s sabbatical”.

He adds: “Suspending Brexit will be greatly preferable to the alternative. How many important decisions in our own lives, too, have had to be taken on such a chilly and unexciting consideration? It’s time for a long pause.”

avid

8th April 2019, 17:07

Who is paying for this diversionary nonsense, I have absolutely had enough of prevarications, lies, and we really all know that the banksters will never let go without ‘punishment’. Politicians in the public eye are ‘placed’ there by banksters, noone in the public eye is ‘incidental’. This is the sickening reality of fake democracy, not only in the UK, but globally.
Why don’t the MSM cover the months of vile atrocities perpetrated by the Macron regime upon the honest French?
Even those who said we were conspiracy theorists about the globalists are now opening their eyes at last.

norman

8th April 2019, 18:56

Leading Brexiteer Peter Oborne Calls For 'Long Pause' To Leaving And Admits Economic Arguments 'Destroyed'

Did he remember to put his one trowser leg back down to normal before he opened his mouth?

Secret societies and democracy are completely incompatible with each other. The long pause we need is to decide how we are going to get secret society influence right out of politic, law and law enforcement, forever. Then get on and do it.

greybeard

8th April 2019, 18:58

News
A Brexit compromise is in view. A customs union is the only solution
The Guardian Simon Jenkins,The Guardian

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-compromise-view-customs-union-101347391.html

The gates are sliding shut. The options are closing. The extremists are refusing to budge, and the centre cannot agree. The only god is time and she is ticking ever louder.

Within the next two days, Theresa May must manoeuvre herself a Commons majority behind a deal that will win another Brexit extension from the EU on Wednesday. That majority deal is now in full view – it would mean the UK leaving the EU with a customs union in place, as agreed with Labour. This would honour the – frankly vague – wish of the 2016 referendum, and it would keep in place frictionless trade with Europe. It is a palpable compromise, but for either extreme to present it as a national humiliation or catastrophe is absurd. We have been in that customs union without obvious harm for 40 years.

Such a settlement from this week’s Downing Street talks would trigger an EU extension for the necessary clearing up. It might set the stage for a confirmatory referendum, for which there is much to be said, but that is a matter of process and should not be a deal-breaker just now. Keep it simple. Agreement is needed, not reasons for disagreement. A customs union is now critical for hundreds of thousands of people across Britain. Yet zombie MPs wake up each morning and chant cliches like Byzantine theologians disputing the holy spirit.

Related: Brexit may destroy parties. So what? It’s the country that matters | Matthew d’Ancona

From the moment May failed to deliver a plausible Brexit without Labour support, a deal with Jeremy Corbyn became essential. It was not to do with his politics any more than with his hat. It was because he had the votes, as had the even less appealing Democratic Unionist party. That is how the Commons works. Also from that moment, May’s own position within her party was at risk. She left it far too late, but two weeks ago she accepted that risk. Her MPs must now show themselves big enough to respect Commons reality – and not tear their party to bits over merely a trade deal.

Corbyn has his own problems, but it is May who is sacrificing her job and her party’s unity to deliver the only Brexit that will get through the Commons. This deal would do what parliament said, over and again, it would do, which is to find a way out of the EU. May can try all the indicative votes she likes, but a customs union looks the only winner. It honours her promise to deliver Brexit. It means the country leaves the EU with minimum disruption. It means May leaves her job with dignity. The nation heaves a sigh of relief.

sunwings

9th April 2019, 21:34

C1sn-WVJK_0

A great mini documentary about the BREXIT success! :blushing:

greybeard

10th April 2019, 06:32

Donald Tusk writes to EU leaders telling them to agree to his Brexit 'flextension' of a year
Evening Standard Asher Mcshane,Evening Standard

European Council president Donald Tusk has written to EU leaders urging them to adopt his so-called "flextension" to Brexit of one year.

The letter from Mr Tusk came as France performed a u-turn after an aide to President Emmanuel Macron said that a year would be too long.

France now appears to be on track to accept a further delay to Britain's departure from the EU.

The UK could still crash out of the EU without a deal on Friday if no agreement is reached at an emergency summit in Brussels.

Theresa May spent the day day holding talks with Mr Macron in Paris and German chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin. She has been making the case for a delay to Brexit until June 30.
Emmanuel Macron greets Theresa May before a meeting at the Elysee Palace in Paris (AP)

Following the talks in Paris, a Downing Street spokesman said: "The Prime Minister met with president Macron in Paris this afternoon ahead of the EU Council meeting tomorrow.

"Following the Prime Minister's letter to Donald Tusk last week, the leaders discussed the UK's request for an extension of Article 50 to June 30th, with the option to bring this forward if a deal is ratified earlier.

"The Prime Minister updated President Macron on the ongoing talks with the Opposition to agree a way forward that respects the result of the 2016 referendum.
Theresa May and Angela Merkel discuss Brexit during their meeting today

"They also discussed upcoming European Parliamentary elections with the PM saying that the Government was working very hard to avoid the need for the UK to take part."

MPs voted 420 to 110 to endorse her proposed delay.

Mr Tusk, in a letter to the heads of the 27 remaining member states ahead of a crunch summit on Wednesday, said there was "little reason to believe" that the ratification of Mrs May's beleaguered Brexit deal could be completed by the end of June.

He called for the European Council to discuss an alternative, longer extension, such as a "flexible extension" lasting "as long as necessary and no longer than one year".

Mr Tusk wrote: "The flexibility would allow to terminate the extension automatically, as soon as both sides have ratified the Withdrawal Agreement.

"The UK would be free to leave whenever it is ready. And the EU27 would avoid repeated Brexit summits.

"Importantly, a long extension would provide more certainty and predictability by removing the threat of constantly shifting cliff-edge dates.

"Furthermore, in the event of a continued stalemate, such a longer extension would allow the UK to rethink its Brexit strategy."
Michel Barnier, said Brussels could amend the Political Declaration on future relations with the UK

He suggested that the EU would grant an extension rather than allowing Britain to leave without a deal on Friday, saying that, given the "risks posed" for those on both sides of the English Channel, "I trust that we will continue to do our utmost to avoid this scenario".

Mr Tusk's letter came after the PM arrived in Paris for talks with Mr Macron, who in recent days has warned that an extension to the Article 50 withdrawal process is not guaranteed.

Earlier over a "working lunch", Mrs May and Ms Merkel had agreed on the importance of an "orderly withdrawal" from the EU, Downing Street said.

The unanimous agreement of all 27 remaining EU states is needed to avoid a no-deal Brexit on the scheduled date of April 12.

The visits came as the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, said Brussels could amend the Political Declaration on future relations with the UK "within a few hours or days" to incorporate the customs union arrangement being discussed in cross-party talks between the Government and Labour.

But there were signs of resistance in Mrs May's Cabinet to compromise with Labour, with International Trade Secretary Liam Fox warning that a customs union would leave the UK "stuck in the worst of both worlds".

Mrs May has asked for the date of Brexit to be delayed until June 30 at Wednesday's summit, with the possibility of an earlier departure if the UK's withdrawal deal is ratified.

MPs backed her call in a Commons vote on Tuesday afternoon as they approved a Government motion for Mrs May to seek an extension to June 30 by 420 votes to 110, majority 310.

However 97 Conservatives rebelled by opposing the plan - including former Brexit secretaries David Davis and Dominic Raab.

Meanwhile the cross-party talks seeking to break the Brexit impasse will resume on Thursday, with Labour saying the Government had not yet made a "clear shift" in its position.

A party spokeswoman said: "We had further detailed and wide-ranging talks with Cabinet ministers and officials today.

"We have yet to see the clear shift in the Government's position that is needed to secure a compromise agreement.

"We have agreed to hold further talks on Thursday in an effort to break the Brexit deadlock, and find a compromise that can win support in Parliament and bring the country together."

A Downing Street spokesman said the talks were "productive" and "wide-ranging", adding: "We remain completely committed to delivering on Brexit, with both sides working hard to agreeing a way forward, appreciating the urgency in order to avoid European elections."

norman

10th April 2019, 17:01

Ann Widdecombe tells Richie Allen what she thinks of the state of affairs . . . .

MP3
https://app.box.com/s/daoy6lpcjhiwzc56ipbi6nryyj9lfevd

Earlier, Richie Allen played an Ian Duncan Smith interview, and commented on it.

MP3
https://app.box.com/s/p3gysthwhzed4inn21cwxrya87ciw3yb

greybeard

10th April 2019, 17:51

It seems madness that after all this time since the referendum there has not been proper plans for exiting without a deal.
The writing was on the wall when the General Election produced a minimal Tory majority.
It will take a miracle for Brexit to happen in an orderly managed way.
The same sound bites repeated time and time again.
We live in an insane world--me thinks.

Chris

A Voice from the Mountains

10th April 2019, 18:00

It seems madness that after all this time since the referendum there has not been proper plans for exiting without a deal.

Wait until the news breaks back across the pond that the British were involved in trying to manipulate US presidential elections in 2016. That will really be throwing some fuel onto the madness already going on over there, and I'm probably having more fun than I should waiting for that one to blow.

The Guardian was even bragging about it a year ago:

British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia

Exclusive: GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia

The hour is near when the last nails will go into the coffin of the "Russian collusion" hoax. And then what becomes of the British spies assisting the Obama administration in the smears?

Will certainly be interesting to see what happens to the "special relationship" and how it plays into the Brexit drama.

Trump Offers No Apology for Claim on British Spying

WASHINGTON — President Trump provoked a rare public dispute with America’s closest ally on Friday after his White House aired an explosive and unsubstantiated claim that Britain’s spy agency had secretly eavesdropped on him at the behest of President Barack Obama during last year’s campaign.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/world/europe/trump-britain-obama-wiretap-gchq.html

Vindication (and international fireworks) on the horizon!

greybeard

11th April 2019, 06:50

Theresa May admits 'huge frustration' as she agrees Halloween Brexit delay
Sky News Greg Heffer, political reporter, in Brussels,Sky News

Theresa May has agreed a delay to Brexit until Halloween after EU leaders offered another extension to Article 50 at a late-night Brussels summit.

In the early hours of the morning, leaders of the remaining 27 EU member states decided to give the prime minister an extra six-and-a-half-month period in which to break the Brexit deadlock at Westminster.

European Council President Donald Tusk warned the UK: "Please do not waste this time."

The second extension to Article 50 secured by Mrs May means a no-deal Brexit will now not take place at 11pm on Friday night, as the point of the UK's departure from the bloc shifts again.

Under the terms of the extension, if Mrs May finally gets her withdrawal agreement approved by the House of Commons prior to 31 October, the UK could leave the EU earlier than that date.

Speaking at a news conference after the summit concluded, the prime minister acknowledged "huge frustration from many people" that she had to ask for another delay, which follows three defeats in parliament for her withdrawal agreement.

Mrs May will explain the latest delay to Brexit to the House of Commons later, while the government will also continue cross-party talks with Labour aimed at reaching a compromise Brexit deal.

She said: "The UK should have left the EU by now and I sincerely regret the fact that I have not yet been able to persuade parliament to approve a deal which would allow the UK to leave in a smooth and orderly way.

"But the choices we now face are stark and the timetable is clear.

"So we must now press on at pace with our efforts to reach a consensus on a deal that is in the national interest."

The prime minister insisted the UK could still avoid having to hold European Parliament elections on 23 May if her withdrawal agreement is finally approved by MPs in the first three weeks of next month.

The government has begun preparations to hold those elections, but will cancel the polls if Brexit is agreed before they are due.

The EU27 agreed, if the UK fails to leave the EU by 23 May but also does not hold European elections, it will leave with no deal on 1 June.

Under the terms of the latest Brexit delay, the EU27 included a review point at the bloc's scheduled June summit, although Mr Tusk stressed this would not present another "cliff edge".

Mrs May recommitted the UK to "sincere cooperation" during the extension, which follows claims by Tory Brexiteers that Britain could behave disruptively if stuck in a long delay to Brexit.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte expected the extension to be the "last delay" to Brexit. He said: "On 31 October, the British will either have agreed to a deal, have decided to cancel Brexit or leave without a deal.

"But then we will have had six more months to prepare for that."

In talks lasting more than six hours, EU leaders were said to be divided over the terms of the offer to the UK.

Seventeen member states were claimed to want a long extension to March next year.

But French President Emmanuel Macron was said to be among those wanting a shorter extension to 30 June - as Mrs May had requested prior to the summit.

Eventually, it appeared minimising disruption to EU institutions due to Brexit was forefront of leaders' minds, with the 31 October date coming on the eve of a new European Commission being installed in Brussels.

In her news conference, Mrs May avoided questions over her future in Downing Street.

Earlier, former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith told Sky News that Mrs May should be gone before the Conservative Party conference at the end of September.

But Tory sources said she was standing by commitments made to her party's 1922 committee that she would step down once her withdrawal agreement is ratified, which could now be as late as the end of October.

This would allow a new Conservative leader to take over the second phase of Brexit negotiations, focused on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

Mrs May had previously told MPs that "as prime minister" she could "not consider a delay further beyond 30 June".

Despite the seriousness of Wednesday's summit, with the prospect of a no-deal Brexit looming, German Chancellor Angela Merkel shared a laugh with Mrs May as she used an iPad to share images of the both of them wearing similar blue outfits as they had addressed their respective parliaments earlier in the day.

In a 66-minute address to EU27 leaders, during which she grilled by the bloc's heads of government, the prime minister then requested a further extension to the Article 50 period until 30 June.

She spelled out how her government is currently engaged in cross-party talks with Labour with the aim of achieving a compromise Brexit deal that can finally end parliament's impasse.

Mrs May then left the room as the EU27 discussed her request over a dinner of warm scallop salad, cod loin with brown shrimps and mini mushroom arancini, followed by iced macadamia nut parfait.

She later returned to the summit building to be told the news of the EU27's decision by Mr Tusk.

norman

11th April 2019, 08:03

greybeard

11th April 2019, 09:51

When does May have to call a general election ?

The best thing about the mess the tory party has made of this is that a huge number of their traditional supporters are going to be ready to vote somewhere else in the next general election.

We need a brexit party in that election. They will win by a landslide and take this issue and shove it right up Junker's and Tusk's asses.

Agreed Norman
One of the challenges is the actual system---many support the Green Party but at a General Election they vote for one of the main parties in the hope of keeping the "opposition" out.
The MPs who have recently left the main parties may be worth watching.
It would be great if another party emerges from this chaos ---too long only left or right to realistically choose from.
There no current major party free of vested interests --they do not truly serve thepopulation that vote for them.
In fairness no doubt there are some honourable MPs

If May keeps to her word, then there will be a new PM, eventually, calling a General Election.
Don't hold your breath though.
Chris

norman

11th April 2019, 10:02

The latest date for a general election has been fixed in law since a long time ago. I'll bet both Brussels and May don't want the extension to go beyond that date. It would carry a huge risk, for them, of a brexit party sweeping into power committed to a sovereign clean exit.

No point looking at the flakers from the tory and labor parties tho', they are the ones who want to complete the nobbling process with stupid compromises that leave us in the ****.

My worry is that Farage and the new resurgent UKIP ( with Paul Joseph Watson on board ) are going to fight and split the exit vote. They need to get their heads together super quick. One united exit party will walk the next election.

greybeard

11th April 2019, 11:03

Yes but!! A Pm can call an election any time that they think their party can win.
Cameron started Brexit--Then Teresa May hoping for a big majority held a General Election.
The very party that promised and started Brexit had a greatly reduced majority.
Why did the public not support them enough to carry through Brexit?
If that election had not taken place then the conservatives would have had enough MPs to carry out their election promise and Brexit would have happened.

So where is public opinion now?
For or against Brexit?
I dont know.
Time will tell.

Chris

sunwings

11th April 2019, 21:19

Never forget Britain holds all the cards, however the EU are playing chess.

Any general election will make this process even more complicated.

A people´s vote will happen.

Brexit will NOT!

greybeard

11th April 2019, 21:27

Never forget Britain holds all the cards, however the EU are playing chess.

Any general election will make this process even more complicated.

A people´s vote will happen.

Brexit will NOT!

Yes I think you are correct sunwings.
If it goes to a public vote
The public is fickle--people change their minds and why not!!!
We will just have to wait and see.

Chris

norman

11th April 2019, 21:36

It all depends on who chooses the tick box options, and what corner they want us in when we decide.

The obvious choice isn't likely to be the one they willingly give us. That's why I don't really want a people's vote. We had one 2 years ago and the choice was clear. Everything since then has been a psyop to obscure the people's choice and turn the whole thing into something completely different.

Example, how nuts is it to be talking endlessly about a "deal" before we are even a free agent to be able to be talking about a deal. While we are still in, the eu gets to play the "we are bigger than you" bluff. In reality, they need us slightly more than we need them, but we can not realise that bargaining power until we are a free agent.

Stage 1, get the hell out, totally (as instructed to by the referendum).

Stage 2, start talks with the EU. Those talks will go a lot better for us than anything that's happened so far with the fake psyop deal talking.

sunwings

11th April 2019, 21:58

UK stands down 6,000 no-deal Brexit staff - after spending £1.5bn
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/11/uk-stands-down-6000-no-deal-brexit-staff-after-spending-15bn

So, no deal is NEVER going to happen. (please see above)

Jean-Claude Juncker: EU won’t renegotiate Brexit deal
https://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-eu-wont-renegotiate-brexit-deal/

No NEW deal will be offered.

How do we have an impass to this mess????

Operator

11th April 2019, 22:56

Interesting "News and Views" this week from Joseph Farrell about the Royals getting politically involved in the UK

pnedMj6ehQw

greybeard

12th April 2019, 06:37

As far as I can see only 3 choices, just possible, to get through parliament
Accept the May deal, a customs union or stay in EU.
A new referendum likely I guess

Chris

greybeard

12th April 2019, 13:17

There are now only two choices, revoke or referendum – no wonder Brexiteers are coming round to a Final Say
The Independent Editorial,

There are now only two choices, revoke or referendum – no wonder Brexiteers are coming round to a Final Say

If the British were to face facts today about Brexit, they would do one of two things with the six-month “flextension” granted by the European Council.

The first option, and by far the simplest, would be to accept that Brexit has failed, and that neither the soft Brexit proposed by the prime minister, nor the no-deal Brexit advocated by a minority of the Conservative Party are realistic options that can carry parliamentary approval, now or ever.

Brexit, in any of its incarnations, is dead, crushed under the weight of its own contradictions. Even if Theresa May were somehow to win a majority for her withdrawal agreement – and there is no sign of that happening – it would mean the UK remaining in the EU customs union indefinitely, and in any case at the sole pleasure of the European Union.

Britain would become a vassal state, as Jacob Rees-Mogg used to have it, a rule-taker not a rule-maker, and a prisoner in a not-so-gilded cage. The Eurosceptics are right in discerning that Ms May’s deal is, in many respects, worse than remaining a full member of the EU – the worst of all worlds.

Better, in these circumstances, to accept that reality right now and end the Brexit fatigue by revoking Article 50. The 2016 referendum result can still be “respected”, in the sense that we would then be able to spend an infinite amount of time discussing different hypothetical models for Brexit, but the ruminations would have the status of a parlour game, like those competitions for a perpetual motion machine. It would not then get in the way of the nation attending to its other problems and making a living in the world.

Brexit fatigue and chaos could, in other words, be cured at a stroke if Article 50 were to be revoked – and this could be done rapidly and unilaterally by the UK. The Conservatives could then get on with reinventing themselves under a new leader in good time for the 2022 general election, Brexit but a painful memory.

It might, though, be too much for many, who would find it a betrayal, and offensive. The second option would salve their feelings – to put the options to the people.

As The Independent has consistently argued, a second referendum, a Final Say, is inevitable if the Brexit process is to resolved in the way it started – through the will of the people, freely expressed. Six months should be sufficient time for that.

We wouldn’t need a lengthy campaign to discuss the options – we have spent three years on this giant exercise in deliberative democracy. We do not need any more buses with big numbers on the side, or “project fear”, or graphics explaining single markets and customs unions. We’re fully educated.

The 2015-16 legislation on an EU referendum can readapted, the flaws in the last referendum repaired, and the voting can take place with as many sensible options on the ballot paper as possible – guided by the expertise of the electoral commission. This ought to include Remain and one or two Brexit options – Ms May’s deal and/or the WTO or hard Brexit option, which, though economically ruinous, is at least practical.

Of course the British will not want to make a quick decision, and the generous holidays enjoyed by MPs mean that the opportunities for the House of Commons to resolve matters will be severely curtailed.

The chances are that Ms May, or her replacement, will be back in Brussels sometime after the British party conferences, in mid-October, asking for more time. The Europeans will also ask the usual questions about a plan. They will agree a further extension and another and another if need be, because the EU does not wish to force a hard Brexit, and the British parliament has virtually outlawed it.

Even if, say, Emmanuel Macron eventually ran out of patience and played his veto, the UK would almost certainly not leave the EU because the choice would then be to crash out or to revoke. And this and any plausible future House of Commons will never vote for a no-deal Brexit.

Brexit is, to all intents and purposes, dead. The only possibility of reincarnation is via a second referendum, which some of the more clear-sighted Leavers are starting to realise. Perhaps a consensus will eventually form around that proposition. It will take longer than six months, however.

Eric J (Viking)

12th April 2019, 15:02

This could be fun.....

By VICTORIA FRIEDMAN12 Apr 2019

Nigel Farage launched his Brexit Party on Friday to campaign Britons to support a clean break from the EU and “to begin a political revolution in the UK. “

Mr Farage wrote in The Telegraph ahead of today’s launch of what was nothing short of a “national humiliation” suffered by the UK at the European Summit, where Prime Minister Theresa May secured yet another delay to Brexit to October 31st, 2019, and lamented of the ineffectual lawmakers in the House of Commons.

“The fact is, our ruling class no longer believes in Britain. In them, there is a blithe acceptance of managed decline into 3rd worldness.

“I feel differently. We are a great nation and a great people. But we are being held back by weak leadership. The time to change this is now,” Mr Farage wrote.

The Brexiteer, who campaigned for the UK to leave the EU for more than two decades, registered his party in February in preparation for the betrayal of Brexit which would result in the UK needing to take part in European Parliament elections.

“We see the next few weeks as the beginning of a fightback against an establishment that has wilfully betrayed our trust,” the MEP wrote.

MEP Candidate June Mummery called for an end to the Common Fisheries Policy, saying for the years that the UK has been “throwing the jewels from the crown” as Europeans continue to be allowed to fish in British waters.

Businessman candidate Ben Habib calls it “absolutely bonkers” to take no-deal off the table, saying that “Parliament has condemned this country to unconditional surrender.”

While Richard Tice, chairman of the Brexit Party and founder of Leave Means Leave, says “we cannot allow this shambles in Westminster to continue.”

“It’s time we took on the establishment and the civil service” to make British politics work “for the people” again, Mr Tice said, warning that by the time Halloween comes around, the Government will write another “begging letter” to the EU to delay Brexit even further.

Farage laughed off the scare tactics that a WTO exit would result in a ‘hard border’ saying, “who’s going to build that border”? with Mr Tice pointing out that technology can be used for customs purposes.

Mr Farage added, “I do believe the quickest way to a free-trade deal is we leave on WTO and the EU will come running down the street after us wanting a tariff-free deal.”

UPDATE 12:08 — Farage: We have division because politicians refuse to accept the decision of the people

Asked whether the divide in Parliament was a reflection of the ‘divide’ in the country, Mr Farage said that recent polls have shown that people just want to get on with Brexit, saying we have division because politicians “refuse to accept the decision of the people.”

UPDATE 11:45 — MEP Candidate Richard Tice says “we cannot allow this shambles in Westminster to continue.

“We cannot allow this shambles in Westminster cannot continue,” the Brexit Party chairman said, adding, “We have an incompetent government, an incapable negotiating team, and politicians who write one thing in a manifesto then conspire in dodgy backroom deals” to undermine Brexit.

The Brexit Party is going to do things differently,” Mr Tice continued. “It’s time we took on the establishment and the civil service” to make British politics work “for the people” again, otherwise by the time Halloween comes around, the Government will write another “begging letter” to the EU to delay Brexit even further.

UPDATE 11:40 — MEP Candidate Dr Alka Sehgal Cuthburt calls for the ‘Redemocratisation’ of British politics

Dr Sehgal Cuthburt is a researcher, author, academic, and educator, and says she is standing for the Brexit Party to stand up for democracy, telling the audience that the political class has created a structure that dedemocratised politics, of which ramifications are being felt through society because “everyone lives their lives through these structures.”

Viking

greybeard

12th April 2019, 16:07

Peter Mandelson: The EU has given us the gift of time. Soon we must go back to the people

Thursday News
Evening Standard Peter Mandelson,Evening Standard

As Theresa May awaited her call into the EU summit last night, there was no mistaking the humiliating mess that has been made of Brexit — one that few foresaw following the 2016 referendum. I was disappointed by the result but felt it had to be respected. The public had voted, the majority went for Leave and that was an end to the matter. Three years later, the argument is not about who won but what has gone wrong since.

Some will blame Mrs May for undermining her own negotiations by putting down red lines before she understood the issues or triggering Article 50 before formulating a plan. Others will blame the EU for being inflexible, or Tory diehards for holding out against compromise, or Whitehall conspirators, or just simply “the Establishment”.

In fact, none of these are to blame. The idea that we have not left the EU yet because the politicians have not tried hard enough is absurd. The inescapable truth is that Brexit has defeated Brexit.

After 60 years of progressive integration and reshaping our economy around the market opportunities offered by the EU, it is no easier to leave it than it would be if we voted to unplug the country from the internet. The paradox we have discovered at the heart of Brexit is that the very event which was intended to give Britain greater control outside the EU can only be implemented by ceding even greater control to it.

If we depart, we can only safeguard our trade rights in Europe by complying with EU rules but without having a say in them. Like the Eagles’ Hotel California, we would check out but never leave. A pointless Brexit. Of course, we could abandon these rights for the sake of our sovereignty but not without paying a huge economic price. However you view it, Brexit is either pointless or painful and is so far short of perfect compared to the economic and security deal we have now that it must force us to think again.

We certainly cannot stay in limbo as we are now. Hoping for unity breaking out in Tory ranks is a forlorn quest: more than 170 Conservative MPs ignored a three-line whip in the Commons on Tuesday evening and these rebels included the Leader of the House, Andrea Leadsom, and the deputy chief whip himself, Chris Pincher. Nobody could realistically hold out hope for common ground materialising between Mrs May and Jeremy Corbyn: why should Labour want to co-own the mess? And if there was ever any likelihood that the EU would tear up its rule book to accommodate Britain, that moment has surely passed, and in truth never existed.

So how are we going to get out of our present bind?

Simply revoking the UK’s Article 50 application at this stage risks a backlash in the current fevered atmosphere. It would spark meltdown in the Conservative Party and bring the largely hidden tensions inside Labour rushing to the surface. More importantly, it would be seen, rightly, as undemocratic to reach such a decision without taking it back to the people.

We could hold a general election. Faced with a new Tory leader elected on a platform of opposing any Brexit compromise — the only way to win support in today’s party — the case for going to the polls would be overwhelming. But having fought on manifestoes which were inevitably about more than Brexit, the outcome would be nuanced and indeed the result might not even deliver a working majority for either of the two main parties.

Steam needs to be allowed out of the pressure cooker, but not simply to allow the Tories to oust Mrs May

A fresh referendum is a blunter instrument, for sure. However you dress it up, the choice would again boil down to a binary decision: leave or stay. The outcome would certainly be clear and everyone would have to live with it.

Exactly a year ago, a campaign was launched to advocate such a second referendum, called a “People’s Vote”. I wrote the original concept paper for this campaign, having swallowed my reservations about both the idea and the timing. It all seemed premature when the April 12 launch day arrived.

It is certainly a widely supported proposition today but I would caution fellow campaigners to tread carefully. It is where I believe we will end up, but without an informed and properly conducted national conversation beforehand which addresses both Brexit and the causes of Brexit, we risk a hardening in public opinion against the EU, especially if the longer extension keeps us in but denies us a serious role.

The country is desperately looking for leadership in framing the debate about what we do next, and without delay the Government should commission an objective, fact-based White Paper that honestly lays bare all the difficulties, choices and trade-offs we have encountered. This White Paper can then be used in public town hall meetings and citizens’ assemblies across the UK.

It will take time to prepare and the pause would do us all good. Steam needs to be allowed out of the pressure cooker, but not simply to allow the Tories to oust Mrs May and for the rest of us to hide from the issues. Let’s face it, the EU has done us a favour by confronting us with the time to choose whether we still want Brexit at all.

In my view, the answer should be no — the jobs, livelihoods and security that come with EU membership will not be found elsewhere. But this is something that the people started and only the people can end.

Lord Mandelson is a former European Commissioner and senior minister in the Labour governments of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown

norman

12th April 2019, 23:22

7F_qk4Dpg6g

greybeard

14th April 2019, 17:34

News
Corbyn told to back new EU referendum or lose millions of supporters
Toby Helm Observer political editor

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/corbyn-told-back-eu-referendum-210029950.html

Jeremy Corbyn has been warned by Labour’s leader in the European parliament and other grandees that the party will be deserted by millions of anti-Brexit voters if it fails to clearly back a second referendum in its manifesto for next month’s EU elections.

The message from Richard Corbett, who leads Labour’s 20 MEPs, comes amid growing fears at the top of the party that it could lose a generation of young, pro-EU voters if it does not guarantee another public vote.

That age group, as well as many other Remainers, MPs say, could turn instead to unambiguously anti-Brexit parties, including the fledgling independent group Change UK, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and the SNP.

Corbett said: “If Labour does not re-confirm its support for a confirmatory public vote on any Brexit deal in its manifesto then it will haemorrhage votes to parties who do have a clear message. If on the other hand we do offer clarity and a confirmatory ballot we could do very well.”
Richard Corbett, leader of Labour’s 20 representatives in the European parliament. Richard Corbett, leader of Labour’s 20 representatives in the European parliament. Photograph: Imageplotter/REX/Shutterstock

While Labour says it is keeping the option of a second referendum on the table in talks with the government, some key figures close to Jeremy Corbyn have been reluctant to confirm that another public vote would be held on any deal that is agreed and approved by parliament. This has prompted speculation that there may be no commitment to one in Labour’s European election manifesto.

Former Labour foreign secretary Margaret Beckett also called for the manifesto to back a second public vote, saying: “It is very important that there is a clear message about where Labour stands and what Labour is offering. In my view that clear and simple message should be that there should be a confirmatory vote of the British people.

“There is a great opportunity for Labour if we are clear. But lack of clarity would cost us support not only in these elections but it will feed through into the next general election and that may not be far away.”

The issue of whether Labour commits to another referendum in its European manifesto, or fudges the issue to avoid alienating its Leave-supporting voters, is already renewing tensions at the top of the party. Those in the shadow cabinet who believe the manifesto should have a second referendum pledge at its heart fear they will be cut out of discussions and that the content and wording will be decided by Corbyn’s office and the national executive committee (NEC), which is dominated by Corbyn supporters. On Saturday night a senior party source said responsibility for what would be in the manifesto would be “an NEC decision in consultation with stakeholders”. Second referendum supporters in the shadow cabinet – Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Tom Watson – are likely to insist, however, that it is also fully involved.

“It would be beyond unacceptable if the shadow cabinet is not able to approve the document and it is all done by the NEC and leader’s office,” said another shadow cabinet member. Opponents of another referendum in the shadow cabinet, including party chairman Ian Lavery, warn that Labour will lose support among its Leave voters if it backs a second vote.

An Opinium poll for the Observer today finds that just 17% of people who say they are certain to vote in the European elections would choose the Tories, against 29% who would back Labour. Some 26% say they would back pro-Remain parties – the Liberal Democrats (10%), the SNP (6%) the Greens (6%) and Change UK (4%) – while 25% would back either Ukip (13%) or Nigel Farage’s new Brexit party (12%). Although it is now almost three years since the June 2016 referendum put the UK on course to leave the EU, European leaders last week insisted Britain would have to take part in European elections at the end of next month as a condition for extending membership until 31 October, unless a Brexit deal passed through parliament before 22 May.

Labour insiders say all but four of the party’s current MEPs, who all back another referendum, want to stand again and will in all probability be confirmed as candidates this week.
Labour deputy leader Tom Watson thinks Corbyn should follow the example set by Harold Wilson in 1975. Labour deputy leader Tom Watson thinks Corbyn should follow the example set by Harold Wilson in 1975. Photograph: Getty Images

One senior party figure said: “The result of this is that even if our manifesto does not confirm a second referendum, that is what our candidates will be advocating on the doorsteps.”

At the last European elections in 2014 – in which Ukip won the most seats – responsibility for writing Labour’s European election manifesto was delegated to a sub-group of the national policy forum. But this time, given the hugely increased profile of the elections, there are demands for the process to widened.

Watson said Labour had to tread carefully and suggested the party follow the lead of Harold Wilson, who in 1975 allowed MPs and his cabinet to vote according to their consciences in the referendum confirming UK membership of the European Community.

He said: “A Labour government would be duty bound to deliver the result of a confirmatory referendum, whatever that may be. The public must trust us to honour that result so it makes sense for our party leadership to take a careful position and our MPs to be allowed to campaign with their consciences. Wilson’s example is a good one. He kept the government and country together.”

Labour MP Stephen Kinnock, who has warned that another referendum would damage trust in democracy, said the focus should be to reach a cross-party agreement. He said: “Most Labour colleagues are very encouraged by media reports – and by the prime minister’s recent comments about a customs union – that we may be within touching distance of an exit deal that protects jobs, environmental standards and workers’ rights.

“If this is indeed the case, then it’s vital that we do not allow the negotiations to be torpedoed by insisting on a public vote. It is just not realistic to hope the prime minister would ever whip her MPs to back a second referendum. The first task should be to get a ‘Labour-shaped’ deal agreed and embedded in the withdrawal agreement so it was not able to be ripped up by future Tory leader.

“There will then of course be ample opportunity for colleagues to press their case for a second referendum on the basis of this renegotiated deal by attaching an amendment to the legislation needed to implement Brexit.”

greybeard

15th April 2019, 06:21

Jacob Rees-Mogg blasts David Lammy for comparing Tory Brexiteers to Nazis
Evening Standard Asher Mcshane, James Morris,Evening Standard

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/labour-second-referendum-campaigner-mp-104800609.html

Jacob Rees-Mogg has blasted "foolish" David Lammy after the prominent Labour MP defended his comparison of Tory Brexiteers to Nazis.

The high-profile campaigner for a second Brexit referendum said the comparison "wasn't strong enough".

His comments came as he hit out at members of the European Research Group (ERG) of Tory MPs who have urged Prime Minister Theresa May to take a tougher stance on EU withdrawal.

And ERG chair Mr Rees-Mogg hit back on Sunday evening, saying he "feels sorry" for the Tottenham MP.

He tweeted: "I feel sorry for Mr Lammy, comparing a Parliamentary ginger group with an organisation and creed that killed six million Jewish people makes him look foolish and his comments unbalanced. It damages his reputation."
David Lammy likened Brexiteer MPs to Nazis (BBC)

Mr Lammy defended his views when asked on BBC1's The Andrew Marr Show whether a comparison he previously made between the ERG and the Nazi Party and South African racists was unacceptable.

Mr Marr played a recording of a comment made by Mr Lammy on March 23 in which he said: "I’m just looking over there at Winston Churchill. On the 30th of September 1938, he stood up in parliament and he said we would not appease Hitler.

"I’m looking across to Nelson Mandela who would not give in to apartheid. We say we will not give in to the ERG. We will not appease. We will not appease."

Mr Marr's response was: "By implication you’re comparing the ERG to the Nazi party or at least to the South African racists. Now whatever you think about the ERG that was an unacceptable comparison – wasn’t it?"

The Tottenham MP replied: "I would say that that wasn't strong enough.

"In 1938 there were allies who hatched a plan for Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia, and Churchill said no, and he stood alone.

"We must not appease. We're in a situation now, and let me just be clear, I'm an ethnic minority.

"We have, in the ERG, in Jacob Rees-Mogg, someone who is happy to put onto his web pages the horrible, racist AfD [Alternative for Germany] party, a party that's Islamophobic and on the far right."

Mr Lammy added: "They're happy to use the phrase 'grand wizard'. KKK is what it evokes to me when I think of that phrase and the Deep South.

"I'm sorry, but very, very seriously, of course we should not appease that, of course we should not appease that."

Mr Marr responded: "Jacob Rees-Mogg has been absolutely clear that he does not endorse the AFD and the Grand Wizard stuff, we don’t know where that came from. It’s a dangerous thing surely to accuse him of being close to Nazi ideology."

Mr Lammy continued: "We do know that Boris Johnson is with Steve Bannon who is a white supremacist. We do know that there are links between Viktor Orban, Salvini and others.

"I’m not backing off on this. Never will I back off on this on behalf of my constituents and the BBC should not allow this extreme hard right fascism to flourish."

The AfD was founded in 2013 as a Eurosceptic party in Germany, and has since campaigned for tougher immigration laws. Mr Rees-Mogg has previously denied supporting the party.

Mr Lammy added: "What kind of country are we going to be like if these people are running it?"

When it was put to Mr Lammy that he was saying Mr Rees-Mogg and former foreign secretary Boris Johnson are equivalent to Nazis, Mr Lammy said: "Ask Boris Johnson why he's hanging out with Steve Bannon."

greybeard

15th April 2019, 07:57

Brexit news: Conservatives face European elections drubbing as support 'slumps to lowest point in six years'
The Independent Adam Forrest,The Independent Sat, 13 Apr 11:48 BST

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-news-conservatives-face-european-084100956.html

Brexit news: Conservatives face European elections drubbing as support 'slumps to lowest point in six years'

The Conservatives are facing a humiliating defeat at the European elections next month after support for the party slumped to its lowest level since 2013, according to a new poll.

The survey shows the Tories on just 28 per cent when it comes to general election voting intention – a four-point fall which leaves them trailing Labour on 32.

When voters were asked which party they will vote for at the European elections, Theresa May’s party languished on 16 per cent, eight points behind Labour on 24.

In a clear sign support for the Conservatives is crumbling over the failure to deliver Brexit, 56 per cent of people who voted to leave at the 2016 referendum said they would back Ukip or Nigel Farage’s newly formed Brexit Party during next month’s vote.

The Brexit Party is on 15 per cent, while Ukip stands at 14 per cent when it comes to European voting intention, the YouGov poll for The Times indicated.

By comparison, the Lib Dems and the Greens are both on 8 per cent, while Change UK has 7 per cent support.

No 10 is still hoping to get a deal through parliament in time to avoid participation in the European elections on 23 May. But the UK is formally on track to hold the poll, having informed the EU authorities ahead of Friday’s deadline that it would be taking part.

Boris Johnson’s backers have suggested he may not even campaign on behalf of his party next month in an effort to show his displeasure at the UK’s involvement.

“Boris won’t campaign in European elections. He believes the prospect of the UK fielding candidates is utterly preposterous,” a source told The Times.

Last week Nadhim Zahawi, the children’s minister, said taking part in the May elections would be the Conservatives “suicide note”, suggesting the level of anger expressed during the vote would be an “existential threat” to his party.

Last night Philip Hammond, the chancellor, admitted the European elections “feels like a pointless exercise” and also acknowledged senior figures were “jockeying for position” to succeed the prime minister.

Yet he insisted Ms May would stay on until she has taken Britain out of the EU.

He told Bloomberg: “The prime minister has said that she will leave once she has done the deal and taken us out of the European Union. But, as far as I know, she doesn’t have any intention of leaving until that deal is done.”

The latest YouGov poll shows Ms May’s personal ratings remain largely unchanged.

When asked to choose between the leaders of the two main parties, 30 per cent said Ms May would make the best prime minister, while only 19 per cent opted for Mr Corbyn.
image

greybeard

16th April 2019, 08:42

Hammond ridiculed Brexiteers in Tory leadership race, according to reports
PA Ready News UK By Shaun Connolly, Press Association Political Correspondent,PA Ready News UK 21 hours ago

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/hammond-ridiculed-brexiteers-tory-leadership-230133683.html

Chancellor Philip Hammond has mocked prominent Tory Brexiteers for engaging in a “suicide pact” during failed bids to beat Theresa May to the Tory leadership, it has been reported.

Mr Hammond used a speech in the US on Friday to say Environment Secretary Michael Gove and former foreign secretary Boris Johnson had formed an “unintended suicide pact” in the 2016 leadership contest, the Daily Telegraph said.

The Chancellor said that Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom had effectively “knifed herself” during the race to become Prime Minister, according to the newspaper.
Theresa May became Conservative leader and Prime Minister in 2016 (Stefan Rousseau/PA)

Mrs May is facing calls to quit and trigger a new leadership contest, with ex-cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith saying she should stand down as early as next month.

Mr Johnson hit back at David Lammy after the Labour MP defended comparing some Tory Brexiteers to the Nazis.

Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph that Mr Lammy’s comments were a “peculiar outburst” which has been brought on by “Brexichosis”.

The remarks came as Cabinet Office minister David Lidington, Mrs May’s defacto deputy, said talks with Labour on trying to end the Brexit deadlock would continue over the Easter parliamentary recess.

However, the discussions were not expected to resume on Monday, according to Labour sources.

The Daily Telegraph reported that Mr Hammond said in a speech at the British embassy in Washington DC the Tories have the “joy of a leadership contest ahead”.

Mr Gove and Mr Johnson became rivals during the 2016 leadership contest which saw the field narrow to Mrs May and Mrs Leadsom.
Former foreign secretary Boris Johnson (Brian Lawless/PA)

Mrs Leadsom then dropped out of the contest after controversy was sparked by remarks which appeared to suggest that being a mother put her in a better position to be leader.

Referring to the leadership battle, the newspaper reported Mr Hammond as saying: “If you remember last time this happened in 2016, Gove and Johnson knifed each other in an unintended suicide pact.

“Which left just Andrea Leadsom and Theresa May.

“And then Andrea Leadsom knifed herself in a private suicide pact and Theresa May inherited the prime ministership without anybody casting a single vote.”
(PA Graphics)

Digital Minister Margot James said she would not serve under Mr Johnson if he became Tory leader.

Asked if she would stay in the party if someone who supports a hard Brexit became leader, Ms James told BBC Radio 4’s The Westminster Hour: “Well, I think it would slightly depend who it was.”

Ms James added: “I have already said I wouldn’t serve under Boris Johnson.

“Not just because his Brexit views, but because of his performance as foreign secretary as well which I felt really let the country down.”

greybeard

16th April 2019, 12:36

EU president Donald Tusk says Brexit can be stopped: 'We cannot give into fatalism'
The Independent Jon Stone,The Independent 4 hours ago

EU president Donald Tusk says Brexit can be stopped: 'We cannot give into fatalism'

The president of the European Council has warned opponents of Brexit not to “give in to fatalism” and accept Britain’s departure from the European Union.

Speaking in the European Parliament on Tuesday Donald Tusk said Europe and Britain needed “dreams and dreamers” to keep the idea of a united Europe alive and the UK in the EU.

“During the European Council one of the leaders warned us not to be dreamers and that we shouldn’t think that Brexit can be reversed,” Mr Tusk told MEPs in Strasbourg.

“I didn’t respond at the time. But today in front of you I would like to say at this rather difficult moment in our history, that we need the dreamers and dreams. We cannot give into fatalism. At least, I will not stop dreaming about a better and united Europe.”

Mr Tusk says he accepts the result of the EU referendum and that the decision on whether to leave is for the British people; but he has made no secret of the fact he would rather see the UK stay in the bloc.

EU leaders last Wednesday agreed to give Britain a long extension of Brexit until 31 October, after Theresa May requested a longer deadline to pass her deal. Mr Tusk defended the length of the extension, which he pushed for – in part because it would give time the UK to “rethink Brexit”.

“In my view it has a few advantages. Only a long extension ensures that all options remain on the table, such as ratification of the current withdrawal agreement, or extra time to rethink Brexit, if that were the risk of the British people,” he said.

“Second, it allows the EU to focus on other priorities that are at least as important, such as trade with the US or the new EU leadership.

“I know that some have expressed fear that the UK might want to disrupt the EU’s functioning during this time. But the EU did not give in to such scaremongering... in fact, since the very beginning of the Brexit process the UK has been a constructive and responsible EU member state. So we have no reason to believe that this should change.

“Third, the flexible extension delays the possibly of a no-deal Brexit by six months. Thanks to this millions of people and businesses have gained at least some certainty in this unstable time.”

But Mr Tusk’s Commission counterpart Jean-Claude Juncker struck a less optimistic tone.

“If the UK has not ratified the withdrawal agreement by [31 October] then there will be a hard Brexit, which we would like to avoid. Of course the UK can request to revoke Article 50 – that is something that’s been made very clear. But that is not my working hypothesis, and it’s not my working hypothesis either that beyond the 31 October we will see another extension.”

Both leaders stressed their preference not to speak about Brexit for a few months. Mr Juncker told MEPs: ”We are on a Brexit break, we are focusing on the very many other issues for our union. With that in mind I want to be very brief.

“We have made sure that we do not need to discuss Brexit every other week and have given the United Kingdom the time and space to find a way out of the impasse.”

Ba-ba-Ra

17th April 2019, 20:09

Graham Moore on SGT Report - Claims Brexit already happened on March 29, 2019

I have no idea who he is or if he knows what he is talking about, but sounds knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRGiaCfzknQ

norman

21st April 2019, 01:02

Why would the people who don't want the referendum result to stand be so keen on extensions/delays. What's the point?

We already know that the EU doesn't take no for an answer. They have forced reruns of national votes over and over until they got the result they wanted ( then stopped forcing reruns ).

But, here's another angle. Suppose, in the case of the UK brexit referendum result, they now want some time to get the "Irish troubles" rebooted and on our TV screens 24/7. The Irish border 'question' was the big card they played during the time of the "negotiations". The border was a threat, kinda. Meaning, if we mess with the Good Friday agreement, we will be back into serious trouble in Ireland.

Seriously.

Have a look at 'Amazing Polly's observations. The video is worth watching from the beginning but this link starts it just before she gets to talking about northern Ireland.

https://i.vgy.me/ThjguO.jpg
https://i.vgy.me/w4FRyi.jpg
https://i.vgy.me/yxyuUG.jpg

ABOellxIGsI

Nancy Pelosi, of all people, was in Derry earlier in the day a 29 years old female journalist was shot and died soon afterwards. Michelle Obama had been boat cruising on the seine river in Paris in front of the burning Cathedral ( you can see an image of the burning Cathedral actually in her wine glass ). John Podesta was in New Zealand just before the Mosque attack.

How many times do these things have to happen before people start to wonder what's going on ?

Now here's a thing.

The Cathedral in Paris that was burned is a Catholic Cathedral. The people in Ireland they might want to get agitated and re lighting the fires of the "troubles" would be . . err, wait for it . . . . . the Catholics !.

What did Pelosi say, in Derry. Did she stir the pot ?

.

greybeard

21st April 2019, 07:07

Tom Watson says Labour cannot ‘sit on the fence’ as he urges second Brexit vote
PA Ready News UK By David Hughes, Press Association Chief Political Correspondent,PA Ready News UK 9 hours ago

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/tom-watson-says-labour-cannot-210339224.html

Labour must back a second Brexit referendum in order to respond to the electoral challenge posed by Nigel Farage, the party’s deputy leader Tom Watson said.

He said the party could not “sit on the fence” on the biggest issue facing the country, in comments which appear aimed at putting pressure on Jeremy Corbyn to make a second referendum a red line issue in Brexit talks with Theresa May.

A “confirmatory” referendum on any deal was “the very least” that voters should expect, Mr Watson said.

Writing in the Observer, the Labour deputy leader said: “Labour won’t defeat Farage by being mealy-mouthed and sounding as if we half agree with him.

“We won’t beat him unless we can inspire the millions crying out for a different direction.

“We won’t win if we sit on the fence about the most crucial issue that has faced our country for a generation.”

He added: “Now that we know a bit more about what Brexit means, the very least that Leavers and Remainers deserve is a final say – a confirmatory referendum – on any deal.

“They deserve a Labour party that offers clarity on this issue, as well as the radical vision for a new political economy achieved by working with our socialist allies inside the EU.

“And, above all, they deserve better than Nigel Farage’s promise of a far-right Brexit that would solve nothing.”
European Parliament elections
Nigel Farage said another referendum would be an insult to Labour voters who backed the Leave cause (Aaron Chown/PA)

Mr Farage accused Mr Watson of breaking his promise to the British people, claiming a second referendum would be “a total insult” to five million Labour Leave voters.

“I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty in the weeks ahead,” he warned.

The momentum generated by Mr Farage’s Brexit Party has also sent shockwaves through the Conservative Party.

A survey of 781 Conservative councillors for the Mail On Sunday found 40% were planning to back the Brexit Party at the May 23 European elections.

Just over half – 52% – said they would vote Tory at the European election, a figure that would rise to 65% if Theresa May was replaced by Brexiteer Boris Johnson, the Survation poll for the Mail On Sunday found.

Some 15% of those surveyed said they believed Mr Farage would be the best leader of the Conservative Party – only Mr Johnson was ahead of him on 19%.

greybeard

21st April 2019, 10:02

Annunziata Rees-Mogg reveals what brother thinks of her running as Brexit Party candidate
Evening Standard Katy Clifton,Evening Standard

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/annunziata-rees-mogg-reveals-brother-142609712.html

The sister of Tory Eurosceptic Jacob Rees-Mogg who is standing as a Brexit Party candidate has said her brother understands she feels it is "for the sake of our country".

Around 700 people attended a pro-Brexit rally on Saturday afternoon led by Nigel Farage and Annunziata Rees-Mogg, who hit out at Britain's "broken" political system.

Confirming she will stand for Nigel Farage's new party in the East Midlands region in the European elections on May 23, Ms Rees-Mogg slammed the Conservative Party as being "confused" with "no leadership" under Theresa May.

Ms Rees-Mogg, who twice stood unsuccessfully for election to Westminster as a Tory, was asked if she had spoken to her brother about her decision to stand for the Brexit Party.

She replied: "Of course I have. My family is incredibly important to me and Jacob and I get on extremely well.

"He understands that I feel this is the only way to get everyone's voices heard - to get us out of Europe for the good of our democracy, for the sake of our country."
Nigel Farage and Annunziata Rees-Mogg at a Brexit Party rally (PA)

Speaking before the event, Ms Rees-Mogg, who lives in Lincolnshire, said: "I will be standing in the East Midlands, where I live with my family, and fighting to represent the people of the East Midlands - all of the counties - in order to ensure the Brexit they voted for is actually delivered.

"I think our politics is broken. It's been very clear that we have got a Remainer parliament trying very ineffectually to represent the Leave vote. We need Leave representatives to fight the corner of our democracy."

Asked why Labour and Tory Brexiteers should switch their allegiance to the newly-formed party, she replied: "When it comes to Labour, Lord Adonis has said it better than I could - if you supported Brexit, don't vote Labour.

"For the Conservatives, they are in such a confused place. There is no leadership from the top. Theresa May has succumbed to the Remainer will of some of her party and ignored the rest of her party.

"If you want your voice to be heard, vote for the Brexit Party."

Ms Rees-Mogg said it had yet to be confirmed where she would be ranked on the Brexit Party's list of candidates in the East Midlands.

"Obviously I hope to be reasonably high up and I hope we get as many votes as possible so that there as many representatives in order to make sure we're heard."

During a speech at the rally, party leader Nigel Farage drew laughter as he said he had spent two decades in the European Parliament and had "enjoyed it more than they have".

Telling party supporters he is not a career politician, Mr Farage said: "I genuinely thought after 498 MPs voted for Article 50 that we would leave the European Union on March the 29th.

"I genuinely thought that I had played my part in turning around history and the future of our country. I was perfectly happy to cease involvement in frontline politics."

Mr Farage added: "I am not, after 25 years of fighting and campaigning for our country to be free and independent, I am not prepared to stand aside - I am not prepared to be rolled over by our career politicians."

He also said that it was clear that Parliament did not represent the will of the people.

"I think it's obvious that our two-party system simply doesn't work any more. I think it's obvious that our two big parties serve nothing but their own interests."

There are picture on the original can be found on the link.
Chris

greybeard

22nd April 2019, 12:07

Senior Brexiteer fuelling violence with 'vain and bitter' article about Theresa May, Tory MP says
The Independent Benjamin Kentish,The Independent 5 hours ago

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/senior-brexiteer-fuelling-violence-apos-064400072.html

Senior Brexiteer fuelling violence with 'vain and bitter' article about Theresa May, Tory MP says

Conservative MPs have accused senior Eurosceptic Sir Bill Cash of fuelling violence against politicians after he accused Theresa May of "abject surrender" and "capitulation" to the EU.

Former cabinet minister Nicky Morgan said Sir Bill's words were "not helpful" while former Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt accused the veteran MP, a senior member of the European Research Group of anti-EU Tories, of a publishing "a vain and bitter article".

MPs will return to Westminster after their Easter break on Tuesday with no solution to the Brexit crisis in sight. Cross-party talks have so far failed to reach an agreement and the UK is on course to take part in EU elections on 23 May, despite the government insisting it can pass a Brexit deal before then.

With the House of Commons gripped by deadlock and her deal having been rejected by MPs three times, Ms May was forced to agree another Brexit delay with the EU earlier this month. The UK is now set to leave the bloc on 31 October.

Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, Sir Bill said this was an "abject surrender" and accused the prime minister of "capitulation" and "appeasement".

The comments were strongly condemned by pro-EU Tories.

Ms Morgan, a former education secretary, told BBC Radio 4's Today: "I understand that Sir Bill Cash has written an article in which there are all sorts of phrases about betrayal and capitulation and all the rest of it.

"As my colleague Alistair Burt has pointed out, this kind of language is not helpful. It's not the kind of language that our councillors or frankly any normal people would use."

The MP, who has received death threats, said she saw a link between the type of comments made by Sir Bill and violence directed against MPs.

Asked if she believed there was a connection, she said: "I do. I think it's been shown that the language that MPs or campaigners, mainly in favour of Brexit, are using is stoking up other people, often who are sitting at home watching all this stuff and it gets them really, really angry and fired up and then they say things that they would never say face to face."

She added: "Language is important and the One Nation group of MPs that I am co-chairing has said very clearly that we should all think about the language that we are using in these debates. We need to remember that politics is about much more than Brexit."

Mr Burt, who resigned as a Foreign Office minister last month in order to vote against the government on Brexit, wrote to Sir Bill on Twitter: "A vain and bitter article focused on your prime minister, with your opinions expressed in words such as mendacity, surrender, betrayal, appeasement, bended knee...Does it ever cross your mind what you're contributing to?"

In his article, Sir Bill's wrote: "In the early hours of 11 April, Theresa May made a statement in Brussels after her abject surrender to the European Council – now a constant feature of her capitulation and of our humiliation throughout these withdrawal negotiations.

"She stated that she had, “agreed an extension of time.” This was no agreement, it was appeasement on bended knee. Our ambassador to the EU even entwined it in his letter of submission to the decision of the European Council thus purporting to make it an international treaty. Under the so called, “agreement” we were tied down by conditions like Gulliver."

He added: "How low can we sink with the prime minister making us crawl on our hands and knees, not only to the EU, but to Germany and France?"

Conservative MPs are plotting how to oust Ms May and on Tuesday will discuss proposals for changing party rules to allow another vote of no confidence in the prime minister.

Under current rules, a confidence vote in the party leader can only be held once a year. Ms May saw off an attempt to topple her in December, meaning another vote cannot be held until the end of the year.
image

greybeard

25th April 2019, 16:52

Nicola Sturgeon has handed Theresa May a lifeline with her call for a new referendum on Scottish independence
[The Independent]
Louis Staples
The Independent25 April 2019

If Scotland holds another independence referendum, it’ll be more disastrous than Brexit

Nicola Sturgeon has announced plans to hold a new referendum on Scottish independence. The first minister told the Scottish parliament she will soon introduce legislation to prepare for another vote by 2021 if Scotland is taken out of the EU.

I write this just a stone’s throw away from Holyrood and a short walk from the Edinburgh polling place where I voted in 2014’s historic independence referendum. But now, five years on, everything has changed – or so Sturgeon wants us to believe.

During her speech, Sturgeon suggested that the case for independence is "even stronger now", given the "profound changes" that have occurred since 2014.

She told Holyrood: "With all of our assets and talents, Scotland should be a thriving and a driving force within Europe. Instead we face being forced to the margins, sidelined with the UK."

Whatever your political persuasion, it is hard to argue with the diagnosis that Brexit has materially changed the UK’s political landscape. On the cusp of leaving the EU, the Britain which 55 per cent of Scots voted to remain a part of in 2014 no longer exists.

Brexit has been a political gift to the SNP. 62 per cent of Scots rejected it, in every single region – the most resounding Remain vote of the UK’s four nations.
A year on from a barnstorming performance in 2015’s General Election, the referendum result gave the SNP a clear mandate: oppose Brexit at all costs.

Throughout the Brexit process, the Scottish Parliament has found itself ignored and sidelined, despite frequent attempts to engage in dialogue with Theresa May.
The Brexit process has also highlighted empty promises that Scots were fed in the run up to 2014’s independence referendum, like the unionist campaign line that “Scotland shouldn’t leave the UK, it should lead the UK”.
Aged most badly are the frequent assertions by Better Together, the main unionist campaign group, that the only way to protect Scotland’s EU membership was to reject independence.

Brexit has also complicated the case for independence, however. The day after 2016’s Brexit vote, Sturgeon announced that a new referendum would be on the horizon.
This was seized upon by her opponents, particularly Scottish Conservatives leader Ruth Davidson, who claimed the SNP are “obsessed” with independence and Sturgeon should “stick to the day job”.

The backlash against Sturgeon’s eagerness to hold a new vote resulted in a bloody nose for the SNP in 2017’s General Election.
The party lost a third of its seats, while the pro-union Tories had their best performance in decades.

In terms of the future independence argument, key questions remain.
People weren’t convinced by economic factors like currency in 2014, so will they be swayed this time?
A million Scots also voted for Brexit in 2016, presumably including people who also voted Yes in 2014.
If they are given the choice, which union will these voters choose?

Having been to the polls in two general elections, two referendums and a Scottish Parliament election in the last five years, the Scottish electorate has become highly astute; it is also traditionally more cautious than in other parts of the UK.
Given how difficult, or impossible, the Brexit process has often seemed, will Scots fear causing more uncertainty and division with a vote for independence?

Still, Sturgeon does appear to have learned lessons from the 2014 and 2016 referendums.
Her speech yesterday stressed the need for a respectful, wide-ranging conversation, imploring her opponents to voice their arguments too.
She also proposed that the Scottish government set up a "Citizen's Assembly" to consider "what kind of country we are seeking to build".
Drawn from countries like Ireland, which have used such methods, this sort of participative democracy shows genuine commitment to a more inclusive debate.

Fundamentally, if Sturgeon does decide to hold another vote, victory for the independence camp is likely.
Complaints that she is using Brexit as an excuse to re-run the 2014 poll have quietened now that the Brexit process has become such an excruciating international embarrassment.
Despite the electoral reverses of 2017, Sturgeon has emerged largely unscathed and is often seen as a voice of reason, frequently attempting to guide May towards a softer Brexit compromise.
She also backs a People’s Vote, which is supported by a majority of Scots.

norman

25th April 2019, 18:00

I wish they won last time. In fact, I suspect they really did but the count was fiddled. Those nuke sub bases are a hot potatoe.

The sooner the Scottish delinquent vote is out of the mix, the better for the rest of us, and for Scotland too of course.

I have no problem at all with a hard border at Gretna or wherever. Quite looking forward to it.

edit:

Actually, the mistake last time was not letting the whole of Britain vote ( as we should have ). I've little doubt that if we'd all voted, there would have been such a big boot up Scotland's backside the result would have been unquestionably leave.

greybeard

26th April 2019, 17:33

The Catch-up: Major Brexit study reveals Remainers are in the lead

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/catch-major-brexit-study-reveals-remainers-lead-161227657.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

Yahoo News UK26 April 2019
What happened?

A major new piece of research has been published today, analysing what the UK really thinks about the EU. The Eurobarometer survey, based on interviews with almost 30,000 Europeans, found that considerably more Brits now want to remain in the UK than want to leave. 45% said they would like to stay a member of the bloc compared to 37% who want to quit.
Pro-EU?

The research found a majority of Brits (54%) feel their country has benefitted from being a member of the European Union. There are significant generational divides on this issue in particular. Asked whether the UK has benefited from its membership, the youngest respondents answered yes by 66% compared with 40% among the oldest generation.
What about the rest of Europe?

Coming just a month before the next round of European Parliamentary elections, support for the EU among all members is at a near record high. 61% of people across all countries said their membership is a good thing. Brits were the most likely to say their membership of the EU is a bad thing. The country second most likely to say being part of the EU is a bad thing was Italy, where 21% of people responded in this way. Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Ireland are the countries with the most positive attitude towards Europe. Outside the UK, a growing number of Europeans are concerned the EU is not moving in the right direction, with half of those interviewed saying this is the case.
What does this mean for Brexit?

Talks between Labour and the Conservatives continued this week to try a find a way to break through but there was no indication a solution is on the cards. Jeremy Corbyn came under increasing pressure to throw his support fully behind a second referendum after it emerged his party’s campaign leaflets for the EU elections made no mention of a so-called People’s Vote.

A Voice from the Mountains

26th April 2019, 19:07

I wish they won last time. In fact, I suspect they really did but the count was fiddled. Those nuke sub bases are a hot potatoe.

Decentralization of power seems to be the new trend all over the world. Britain wants to leave the EU, many Scots want Scotland out of Britain, then you have Catalonia, Alberta in Canada, California in the US (where many Americans would like California out too, but there's also the military and trade problems because they have so much of our Pacific Coast)...

Why is world government a terrible idea? Different cultures and peoples have legitimately different wants and needs, and enjoy living in different ways. You can't please everyone with a world government. Small governments give the best representation and provide people with the most leverage over abuse, and all sorts of other advantages. It's not as if international trade and cooperation go away completely. International, even global trade has existed literally since the Stone Age, and what did those people know of nation-states?

norman

27th April 2019, 15:41

. . . Those nuke sub bases are a hot potatoe. . . .

errr, about those nuke sub bases . . . .

uTXUQAcAFrU

Well, as I predicted about ten years ago, Germany is now pushing for a restructuring of the UN security council, and wants a permanent seat in that body...

http://fordhampoliticalreview.org/germany-as-a-permanent-u-n-security-council-member/

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-19/germany-wants-nuclear-bombers

samildamach

27th April 2019, 20:54

Jhonny mercer a Tory backbench mp,live on have I got news for you,claimed that the recent accusations against him are in retaliation for a failed blackmail attempt to get him to for for mays offer.
He also stated he is using the BBC for liable running the story,and has posted documents on twitter showing an integration of the u.k army in to a single point defnce union with the eu heading it.interesting revelations

greybeard

4th May 2019, 12:42

News
Local election results show there’s more impetus than ever for a second referendum
The Independent Editorial,The Independent

He is thought of as dry and vulpine, with a nice line in irony – yet what were heralded as the best results for the Liberal Democrats in decades has placed an uncomplicated, broad smile on the face of Vince Cable. So unused is Sir Vince at greeting good news for his party that you could almost hear the creaks as his facial muscles arranged themselves into such an unfamiliar contortion. At last he has something to hand on to his successor.

Not since the tuition fees fiasco poleaxed their credibility have the Liberal Democrats had so much to feel good about. Brexit, otherwise loathsome, has given them an unexpected bonus. Sir Vince decided to come out of the EU closet and tell the world that his party was, quite simply, the “Stop Brexit” party. Two words: it worked. The Greens, equally enthusiastic for Europe, also enjoyed their best night since the 1989 European elections delivered a shock third place to them. The recent Extinction Rebellion, and the powerful voices of Sir David Attenborough and Greta Thunberg, have rightly reminded voters that there is more to politics than Brexit – and the future of life on Earth is in real jeopardy.

The other group, or rather non-group, that did exceptionally and unexpectedly well were the independent candidates standing for their local authorities. Such figures were once relatively commonplace in the local government landscape, independent-minded folk of a practical and more politically neutral cast of mind who only wished to serve their communities without party favour. Some were, in reality, Tories in disguise, usually dedicated to keeping the rates (the forerunner to the council tax) down, but not all were, and one might have feared that a more vicious political culture had driven them into virtual extinction. Now they are back, another sign of the British electorate’s growing disillusion with our traditional party structures.

Perhaps it was just as well for the Liberal Democrats and the Greens that the local elections arrived too soon for Change UK to register and contest seats. Had they done so, they might well have split the vote in the broad, pro-EU, progressive movement, with grievous results. These three smaller parties may regret their failure to cooperate when the European parliament elections arrive, almost certainly, on 23 May.

Which leaves the much-denuded “main” parties pondering their own plight. The Conservatives were, at least superficially, the more badly abused by the electorate. In simple terms, as formulated by the veteran Eurosceptic Sir Bernard Jenkin, the party is “toast”. Even allowing for the fact that the seats were last contested in 2015, on the same day that David Cameron won an overall majority for them, it is a precipitous fall – and that was, in fact, a mediocre showing four years ago. Hundreds and hundreds of council seats lost, “key” administrations handed over to the opposition or to no overall control, often decent and hardworking people suffering from events far beyond their control (or, with Brexit, apparently beyond anyone’s control).

For Labour, the breakthroughs did not arrive. Like the Conservatives, their national equivalent vote share (allowing for the pattern of contests) is about 6 or 7 percentage points slower than last year, and that, it must be said, had to be a disappointment for Jeremy Corbyn and his colleagues.

Given that Labour is facing the most divided and weak administration in decades, it ought to have been winning seats and votes across the board. Rather than their infamously fudged policy on Brexit and the second referendum succeeding in attracting both Leave and Remain supporters, as probably happened in the 2017 general election, it now seems equally unattractive to both sides of the European debate. The voters are no longer fooled by Labour’s obvious non-policy.

Neither have Labour and the Tories got much to look forward to in the European elections next month (assuming they are held). The remarkable intervention of Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party – like Change UK it registered too late to fight in these local elections – threatens to punish the Conservatives still further, with many of the Tories’ own councillors (or ex-councillors) and other activists going “on strike” for the duration. It could be that the Conservatives, in just a few weeks, will fall to their lowest vote share in any national election during their entire domination of the British political scene. There may be regions – London, for example – where they finish behind not only the Brexit Party and Labour but also the Liberal Democrats and, possibly, the Greens and Change UK: sixth place in a major election in the capital city. It would be a truly humiliating experience for them, a shock even by the current miserable standards. By the same token, Labour too will fall further from its unimpressive performance this week. To adapt an old slogan, Labour’s Brexit policy isn’t working. It doesn’t add up, and the country, and Labour, knows it.

Brexit, then, is once again proving utterly unmanageable and disruptive for our traditional party system. It has already forced defections and splits, and both the main parties appear increasingly like disorderly gangs barely able to bear their own company. The parties, by contrast, that have a clear unequivocal message – the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and the Brexit Party – are benefiting from the public mood and yearning for clarity. The great irony is that the very stasis that both Labour and the Conservatives find themselves in will merely strengthen the position of their respective leaders.

The deadlock on Brexit that is wrecking normal political life, as well as the economy, can only be broken by a popular vote, one way or the other. Dramatic as the results are and will be, nothing in the local or European elections results will shift the policy of the government or of Labour. That means, as we all know, a referendum is inevitable. Then normal politics can, at long last, be resumed, and the Brexit fatigue can end. It is what, in its inchoate way, the electorate has been trying to tell our leaders.

greybeard

5th May 2019, 09:58

Brexit: anger grows at May-Corbyn bid to stitch up deal
The Guardian Toby Helm and Michael Savage,The Guardian

Last-ditch efforts by Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn to strike a compromise on Brexit looked doomed on Saturday as the party leaders faced mounting revolts from their own MPs and activists.

Following Thursday’s local elections, in which both the Conservatives and Labour were punished severely by voters for failing to break the political deadlock, May and Corbyn have insisted their parties must now urgently agree a way forward in cross-party talks which will resume on Tuesday. On Saturday the prime minister reiterated her appeal, saying: “We have to find a way to break the deadlock. I believe the results of the local elections give fresh urgency to this.”

But opposition MPs and Tory Brexiters warned any deal the leadership teams stitch up behind the scenes would face inevitable defeat in parliament and cause more acrimony in the parties.

The Observer can reveal that 104 opposition MPs, mainly from Labour but also SNP, Change UK, Green and Plaid Cymru, have written to May and Corbyn insisting they will not back a “Westminster stitch-up” unless there is a firm guarantee that any deal is then put to a confirmatory referendum.

The MPs say: “The very worst thing we could do at this time is a Westminster stitch-up whether over the PM’s deal or another deal. This risks alienating both those who voted leave in 2016 and those who voted remain.” They say that, “whatever the deal” is, it must be the subject of another referendum so voters can have the “final say”.

Separately, senior Tory MPs insisted that any deal struck with Labour that involved anything close to a customs union – Corbyn’s central demand in the talks – would be rejected by more than 100 of the party’s MPs, who would see it as a betrayal of May’s promises on Brexit.

Nigel Evans, executive secretary of the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, said: “If there is a compromise that turns out to be a kind of ‘Brexit in name only’ involving anything close to a customs union there would be more than 100 Tory MPs who would never support it, particularly following the local elections.”

Another member of the 1922 executive said that, even if a cross-party deal were struck that could command the support of two-thirds of Labour MPs, it would then be likely to be opposed by two-thirds of Tory backbenchers.

As both parties continue to digest the local election results, which saw the Tories lose around 1,300 seats in their worst result since the 1990s and Labour shed more than 60, anger at the leaders’ handling of Brexit intensified among MPs and members.

Alanna Vine, chair of Cheadle Conservative Association, said: “Our party’s failure to deliver Brexit has been toxic. If we don’t change course – immediately cease discussions with Corbyn about us remaining in the EU customs union and stop endlessly extending our leaving date – our party will be wiped out for a generation.”

Alexander Curtis, chair of Hertford and Stortford Conservative Association, said: “Colleagues have paid dearly for our prime minister’s failure to believe in and back the decision of 17.4 million voters to leave the EU. People are sick of our incompetence and inability to deliver and to honour our promises. We will be annihilated in the Euro elections if we break another promise and adopt Corbyn’s customs union plan.”

Writing for the Guardian, Bridget Phillipson, Labour MP for Sunderland South, said her party’s loss of councillors was not the result of leave voters deserting but that the area’s remain supporters “gave us a bloody nose and showed us their support is not unconditional”. She adds: “It should be a source of shame to us all that Labour’s position on the most urgent challenge our country faces has been to wallow in fudge for three long years.”

In the Observer, the Lib Dem leader, Vince Cable, whose party made strong gains, along with the Greens, on Thursday, suggests that if pro-remain parties are to stop Brexit they need to look at ways to work together after the European elections on 23 May. Cable says: “Once the immediate bunfight for votes is over, liberals and social democrats in all the parties need to look afresh at how we make an impact when a general election finally comes. Millions of voters are politically homeless and looking for a voice.”

In Saturday night’s statement May said: “We will keep negotiating and keep trying to find a way through. Because the real thing that matters now is delivering Brexit and moving on to all the other issues people care about. The longer that takes, the greater the risk we will not leave at all. We need to get out of the EU and get a deal over the line.”

On Saturday, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, suggested the government could reach a compromise with Labour on a post-Brexit customs union arrangement with the EU.

He said the local election results on Thursday were a call from voters to “deliver Brexit and then move on”.

greybeard

5th May 2019, 12:52

Andrew Marr on BBC today May 5th pointed out that the massive swing was to the Liberal Democrats who claim to be the main "no exit" party.
It would seem that the voters in local elections went for the party that was clearly for remain.
People do change their minds.
The politicians from other parties seem to be in avoidance of this.

Chris

samildamach

5th May 2019, 14:52

Of course the Tory's lost 1500 councillors and labour 80,the bbc reported this as a labour lose,so is Andrew marr biased?.
Had you forgotten the massive swing to independent councillors almost equal to liberal gains or the biggest amount of spoilt papers in voting history.
I voted liberal and iam a brexiter,they are just very good at local goverment.
Which party was there to vote for a protest?
Discount ukip from recent bbc hit peaces

greybeard

5th May 2019, 15:48

Gove says ‘democracy demands’ MPs back Brexit deal after election losses
PA Ready News UK By Tom Eden, Political Reporter, Press Association Scotland,PA Ready News UK Sat, 4 May

Michael Gove has issued a renewed plea for MPs to back Theresa May’s deal, claiming the Tories’ local election losses were because the party has “not yet delivered Brexit”.

The Environment Secretary argued that “democracy demands” that MPs vote for the Prime Minister’s Brexit deal and urged politicians from all parties to “unite to respect the referendum result”.

Speaking in his home city of Aberdeen, Mr Gove claimed that the withdrawal agreement “does recognise the hopes and concerns of Remainers and Leavers alike”.

Reflecting on the local election results which saw the Tories suffer net losses of 1,269 seats, he said: “If local elections down south tell us anything, they remind us that referendum verdicts must be honoured.

“Lots of hardworking Conservative councillors lost their seats because Parliament has not yet delivered Brexit.”
Scottish Conservatives’ party conference
Michael Gove at the Scottish Conservatives’ conference in Aberdeen (Jane Barlow/PA)

Talking up Mrs May’s deal, the leave campaigner added: “It enables us to leave the EU, while safeguarding essential interests and liberating us to enjoy new opportunities.

“I am all too aware of how hard the Prime Minister has worked and how dedicated she has been to secure a good Brexit deal.

“Which is why I hope that when Parliament returns, that MPs from every party will unite to respect the referendum result and back the deal. That is what democracy demands.

“And then we can concentrate on uniting our country behind the vision of a brighter future and restore trust to our politics.”

In a highly personal speech at the Scottish Conservatives conference, Mr Gove spoke about how being adopted drives his political ambition.
Scottish Conservatives’ party conference
Michael Gove spoke about how being adopted inspires his politics (Jane Barlow/PA)

He said: “From the moment I arrived, my parents gave me unconditional love. They gave me everything.

“As my mother said when she explained to me the circumstances of my adoption: ‘Son, you didn’t grow under my heart, you grew in it.'”

“My parents are the reason why I am in politics,” he added.

“I want to show them the chance they took and the love that they gave in choosing me has, in the end, worked out. I want to repay their kindness and love by doing whatever I can to help make others’ lives that wee bit better.

“And just as they gave me the chance to choose my future, I want to ensure that everyone has the ability to determine their own destiny. To be the author, and the editor, of their own life story.”

greybeard

7th May 2019, 17:17

European elections will take place in the UK on May 23
Yahoo News UK Will Metcalfe,Yahoo News UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/european-elections-will-take-place-in-the-uk-on-may-23-142854584.html

European Parliament elections will go ahead in the UK on May 23, after the Government determined that there is not enough time left to complete the ratification of Brexit before that date, Cabinet Office minister David Lidington has said.

The Government has accepted it cannot get its Brexit deal through Parliament in time to avoid European elections on May 23.

Theresa May's effective deputy confirmed the elections will go ahead, but said the Government was "redoubling our efforts" to get an EU Withdrawal Agreement ratified by the start of July so the MEPs elected this month never have to take their seats.

Mr Lidington was speaking shortly before cross-party Brexit talks with Labour resumed in Whitehall.
Minister of State at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office David Liddington leaves the Cabinet Office in Whitehall, London, as Prime Minister David Cameron chaired a meeting with Chancellor George Osborne, Bank of England governor Mark Carney and other senior officials to assess the likely impact of the Greek referendum vote to reject the austerity terms demanded by its international creditors on the UK.
David Lidington has confirmed EU elections will take place this month. (PA)

Pressure on both sides to make progress was heightened by their poor performance in last week's local elections, which both Conservative and Labour leaderships interpreted as a message from voters to get on with delivering Brexit.

Mrs May had been hoping the talks would deliver a compromise deal in time to allow her to call off the European Parliament elections.

But, more than a month after the talks began, Mr Lidington acknowledged time is now too tight to get a Withdrawal Agreement Bill through both Houses of Parliament by the date of the poll.

greybeard

8th May 2019, 07:44

The Latest: EU chief rues failure to enter Brexit campaign
Associated Press Associated Press
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/latest-eu-chief-rues-failure-enter-brexit-campaign-123559831--finance.html

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker talks to journalists during a news conference following a College of Commissioners meeting at the European Commission headquarters in Brussels, Tuesday, May 7, 2019. Juncker says one of his biggest mistakes in office was failing to get involved in the Brexit referendum and counter what he says were the lies spread during the campaign.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says one of his biggest mistakes in office was failing to get involved in the Brexit referendum campaign and counter what he says were the lies spread.

Juncker told reporters that he stayed out of the June 23, 2016 vote at the request of then prime minister, David Cameron, and that his mistake had been "to listen too carefully" to the premier.

Juncker says "it was a mistake not to intervene and not to interfere, because we would have been the only ones to destroy the lies which were circulated around."

Juncker, whose term of office runs out at the end of October, said: "I was wrong to be silent."

The British government is making a final push to do a Brexit deal with the opposition Labour Party, amid mounting outrage from Prime Minister Theresa May's Conservative Party at the prospect of compromise.

Senior Conservative and Labour lawmakers are meeting to see whether they can reach a compromise. Several weeks of talks have so far not produced a breakthrough.

Almost three years after Britain voted to leave the EU, the date and terms of Brexit remain uncertain because lawmakers have repeatedly rejected May's divorce deal with the bloc.

That has led her to seek a deal with Labour — to the fury of pro-Brexit Conservatives, who are demanding May's resignation.

The head of a powerful Conservative committee is due to meet May Tuesday to deliver a demand for "clarity" about her departure date.

greybeard

8th May 2019, 08:55

Do they all believe what they say?
Who is telling the biggest whoppers?
Those who said we would be massively better off out of Europe or those saying we are better to stay in?
Either way the public are better educated on the remain or leave issues.
So why the fear of a referendum now?
Vested interests?
I wont vote regardless.
Tho slightly tempted to vote green next general election.
Chris

greybeard

11th May 2019, 20:56

Brexit: Renewed hope for second referendum as Theresa May's deputy discusses 'research' with opposition leaders
The Independent Lizzy Buchan,The Independent

Theresa May's deputy has given fresh hope to second referendum campaigners by saying another vote was "perfectly practical", according to two party leaders.

Change UK leader Heidi Allen said David Lidington, the cabinet secretary, had "clearly done his research" on the mechanics of a Final Say vote when she attended talks alongside Liberal Democrats Sir Vince Cable and Jo Swinson.

Sir Vince said Mr Lidington had asserted that holding another vote would be "perfectly practical" during the meeting.

In the wake of the Tories poor local election showing, Ms Allen said she felt there was "more of an open door" among senior Tories towards another referendum.

She told The Independent: “I set the meeting up with [David] Lidington, because I thought surely there must be a greater appetite to end this desperate madness, to get her deal through on the back of a people's vote so we can move on.

The mood in the talks was "very different" compared to previous meetings, Ms Allen said, adding: "I sense there might have been more of an open door there."

She said: "He was all over the detail of the legislation and how complex legislation would be, how many days of debate it might need, the timetable might look like, how it would fit around summer recess.

"He volunteered a lot of information so he has clearly done his research."

The Independent has been campaigning for a Final Say vote on any Brexit deal - a position that has been supported by more than a million people.

Speaking after the meeting, Mr Cable told The Sun: “He was perfectly straight – he set out the government’s political position on it.

"And you have heard Theresa May say ad nauseam what a terrible idea it is.

“But it was very clear they are thinking about it, and they are doing a lot of practical planning in case it happens.

“David acknowledged that it was perfectly practical - it could be done within realistic time scales.

“There is an issue about the question. But they have thought about that - they could find a way of dealing with it.”

However a cabinet source dismissed his version of events as "wishful thinking".

A Cabinet Office spokesperson said: “The government does not support a second referendum and is not preparing to hold one.”

The prime minister is under pressure to break the Brexit impasse after she could not secure Commons support for her deal, forcing her to delay the UK's departure from the EU until October.

Talks with Labour to find a way forward are about to enter their seventh week without a breakthrough.
image

greybeard

12th May 2019, 14:15

Tony Blair launches most critical attack yet on Jeremy Corbyn over Brexit
Sky News Jon Craig, chief political correspondent,Sky News

Tony Blair has launched his most critical attack yet on Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit policy, claiming it meant the party was "doomed to fail" in last week's local elections.

The former prime minister and leading campaigner for a second referendum says Labour's "destructive indecision" of trying to face both ways "pleased no one" and let down the country.

Writing in The Observer ahead of an interview on Sophy Ridge On Sunday on Sky News, Mr Blair says that "despite everything" he will vote Labour in the European elections on 23 May.

But he urges Labour supporters put off by the party's "equivocation" to vote for one of the "unequivocal Remain parties" - the Lib Dems, Change UK, Greens, Scottish National Party or Plaid Cymru.

Mr Blair's latest anti-Brexit onslaught comes only days after he was attacked and mocked by Tory Brexiteers for claiming a second referendum would be a "healing process" for the nation.

It also coincides with a new opinion poll suggesting the Conservatives face a near wipe-out in the European elections and Labour is trailing badly behind Nigel Farage's Brexit Party.

The poll, by Opinium Research, suggests the Brexit Party is way out in front on 34% (+6), Labour on 21% (-7), the pro-Remain Lib Dems 12% (+5), Conservatives 11% (-3), Greens 8% (+2), UKIP 4% (+1) and Change UK 3% (-4).

In his Observer article, the former PM writes: "Labour should never have put itself in such a position of destructive indecision.

"The local elections were terrible for the Conservatives; but, on any rational analysis, devastating for Labour.

"This is a government not in a state of disarray but of profound dysfunction. No one of any age or any political experience can remember anything like it.

"Meanwhile, we are almost 10 years into austerity with the public realm - Labour's political sweet spot - in disrepair.

"Yet Labour cannot even win the local elections for heaven's sake."

Mr Blair says that despite the best efforts of the shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer, the Labour leadership's "ambiguity on Brexit has brought it confusion, not shelter from principled decision on the most vital question of national interest".

He adds: "But leave aside principle. Even as a piece of political strategy, it was doomed to fail."

He continues: "Any strategy which tries to face both ways just ends up looking indecisive or unprincipled or both.

"What Labour should have done - from the beginning - is to argue that we accept the referendum result; but that once any negotiation concludes, we should be entitled to compare the future European relationship with what we have now; and if that negotiated outcome is unsatisfactory, reserve the right to give the people the final say.

"We could have explained the central dilemma between hard Brexit and soft, and critiqued the shambles of the negotiation's failure to resolve it.

"We could have mounted a proper attack on the nonsensical Brexit negotiating strategy of 'cake and eat it' instead of having our own version of the same strategy.

"We could have dismantled the Tories over the distractive effect of Brexit, an argument which would have grown in power over time as the political energy of the entire government got subsumed by Brexit.

"We could have made the correct case as to why Brexit is not the answer to anything - the degradation of the NHS, failures in the schools, rising crime and social disintegration, the inequalities in our society or indeed the climate challenge.

"We could have given leadership to the Labour Brexit vote; instead of which we tried to follow it whilst simultaneously trying to appeal to the anti-Brexit Labour vote.

"Result? We pleased no one; and most of all let down the country."

Mr Blair adds: "The European elections should have been the occasion for a large unified anti-Brexit vote.

"Instead, many Labour supporters are genuinely conflicted about voting Labour."

greybeard

12th May 2019, 20:28

By Jennifer McKiernan, Press Association Political Correspondent,PA Ready News UK

Gavin Williamson has described Theresa May’s Brexit talks with Labour as a “grave mistake”.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/gavin-williamson-attacks-pm-brexit-200000928.html
The former defence secretary, who was sacked over the Huawei leak, said pressing ahead with the talks will have “fatal” consequences.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, he labelled Mrs May as “politically naive” for going into fruitless negotiations which he claimed were bound to fail.
Prime Minister Theresa May
Prime Minister Theresa May has come under fire from Gavin Williamson (Steve Parsons/PA)

The Tory MP for South Staffordshire said doing a deal with Labour on Brexit “sounds so simple and so reasonable, but it is destined to fail”.

“Even if Labour do a deal, break bread with the Prime Minister and announce that both parties have reached an agreement, it can only ever end in tears,” he said. “The Labour Party does not exist to help the Conservative Party.

“Jeremy Corbyn will do all he can to divide, disrupt and frustrate the Conservatives in the hope of bringing down the Government.

“His goal, and he has made no secret of it, is to bring about a general election.”

Mr Williamson said the Prime Minister seemed oblivious to the fact many Tories believe she is “negotiating with the enemy”.

“There is a clue in their title: Her Majesty’s Official Opposition,” he said. “Their priority is to derail the Government.

“Even if we get to a point where Jeremy Corbyn agrees a deal with the Prime Minister, when it comes to detailed scrutiny of the votes, Labour will revert to form.

“Even if it passes the first few votes, it will fail later.”
European Parliament election
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn is facing pressure from his own MPs on Brexit. (Gareth Fuller/PA)

The former Cabinet minister said there was a simple calculation that a deal could pass with the combined votes of Labour and Conservative MPs, but “tough realities” must be faced if the deal was “far removed” from expectations.

Mr Williamson said this could mean Mrs May has support from “less than half the Conservative MPs” including those “on the payroll”.

That would lead to “knife-edge votes” and a “number of defeats” due to “up to 80” Labour rebels who want another referendum, he said, alongside SNP, Lib Dem and Change UK MPs who have pledged to vote against.

He said: “This is when Labour will finally kill it, if they have not done so already.

“Labour will be able to credibly say it is not what was originally agreed between them and the Prime Minister.

“It is politically naive to go down this route.”

Warning Mrs May she was turning her own supporters against her, Mr Williamson said that scenario “should be avoided at all costs”.

He said: “The Prime Minister needs to recognise that futile efforts to pull off this Labour deal are damaging us all.

“It is a grave mistake for any Prime Minister to fail to recognise when a plan will not work and it is fatal to press on regardless.

“We need to accept that these talks with Labour are fruitless and that not only will they not deliver the Brexit that people voted for, they are a betrayal of the direct instructions the people gave us in 2016 and 2017.”

Urging Mrs May to “make the right choice”, the MP suggested new leadership was needed.

“We are now at a crossroads and it is imperative the Prime Minister makes the right choice,” he said.

“In order to deliver Brexit, there has to be a clear-sighted determination of what you are wanting to deliver, as opposed to delivering the lowest common denominator.

“The only way to deliver anything is by ensuring you have your own tribe and your own people with you 100% of the way.

“This is what has to be delivered – not doing a deal with Labour.”

greybeard

12th May 2019, 21:39

Nigel Farage angrily lashes out at Andrew Marr and BBC as he is grilled on controversial previous statements
Evening Standard Patrick Grafton-Green,Evening Standard

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nigel-farage-angrily-lashes-andrew-110300422.html

Nigel Farage angrily lashed out at the BBC today because he was grilled on his controversial previous statements on the NHS, climate change and foreigners rather than Brexit.

The Brexit Party leader branded the interview with Andrew Marr “ludicrous” and “the most ridiculous interview of my life” as he was asked if stood by the comments.

It comes after a poll suggested that his party would earn more votes than Labour and the Conservative Party combined in the upcoming European elections.

Mr Marr argued that Mr Farage should be scrutinised because he is an “important figure” who is “trying to lead an insurgent party to try and replace the main parties”.
Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage was not happy with Andrew Marr's line of questioning (REUTERS)

He asked: “Do you still want to replace the NHS with a private insurance system?”

Mr Farage replied: “I never did, I would like to take the burden off the NHS.”

But the MEP quickly added that the interview was “boring” and questioned why they weren’t talking about the “sea change” currently occurring in British politics.

Despite this Marr continued his line of questioning and brought up a series of other past remarks made by Mr Farage.
Nigel Farage was asked about a series of controversial statements he has made in the past (REUTERS)

They included views that worrying about global warming would be the “stupidest thing in human history”; on legalising hand guns; on saying he felt uncomfortable hearing foreign languages on trains; on stopping people with HIV from coming to the UK; and on admiring Vladimir Putin.

Mr Farage said: "What is wrong with the BBC? You’re just not interested aren’t you?"

"This is absolutely ludicrous. I’ve never in my life seen a more ridiculous interview than this," he said.

"You are not prepared to talk about what is going on in this country today.

"You’re in denial, the BBC’s in denial, the Tory and Labour parties are in denial. I think you’re in for a bigger surprise on Thursday week than you can even imagine."

Labour’s Job Ashworth later attacked Mr Farage for dodging questions on his record and failing to put forward any manifesto.

The shadow heath secretary said: "Nigel Farage doesn't want to stand on his record, because his record is one of wanting to privatise the NHS, it's on big tax cuts for the very rich and penalising working people in this country.”

Also Sunday morning’s interview, Mr Farage argued that the Prime Minister "has wilfully deceived us" over Brexit.

He added: "What she's put to Parliament three times isn't a deal, it's a new European Treaty. I didn't spend 25 years campaigning to leave the EU to sign up to a new treaty."

greybeard

14th May 2019, 06:52

News
Theresa May set to let MPs decide as Brexit talks hit buffers
Evening Standard JOE MURPHY, NIcholas Cecil, Kate Proctor,Evening Standard

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/theresa-may-set-let-mps-092833962.html

Theresa May set to let MPs decide as Brexit talks hit buffers

Theresa May is preparing to concede giving Parliament “definitive votes” to decide Brexit terms as furious MPs pile pressure on her and Jeremy Corbyn to abandon their talks.

With the cross-party negotiations now entering their seventh week without any sign of a breakthrough, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt insisted: “This is a crunch week.”

Communities Secretary James Brokenshire said that if the plug is pulled, the “next step” will be to hand power to Parliament to decide, not by the indicative votes once considered by the Prime Minister “but actually a series of definitive votes” to settle the matter.

Labour was also divided, with Mr Corbyn’s deputy Tom Watson openly challenging his refusal to firmly back a second referendum.
Theresa May is preparing to concede giving Parliament “definitive votes” to decide Brexit terms (REUTERS)

In other developments today:

An exclusive opinion poll revealed the astonishing scale of the damage being inflicted on both major parties by the Brexit disarray, while the Remain-backing Liberal Democrats and Greens were surging upwards. The Conservatives have plunged to a humiliating fifth place in the capital, backed by just 10 per cent of Londoners in the European elections, the YouGov survey, commissioned by Queen Mary University of London, found. The Greens are ahead of them on 14, while the Lib Dems are on 17.

Mr Corbyn faces punishment from Remain-backing London voters in a general election, with his party’s vote share down from 49 per cent share in December to 35 per cent today. The Conservatives are also down from 33 to 23 in London, with the Lib Dems up from 11 to 21, YouGov found.

Nigel Farage claimed he should get a seat at the Government’s negotiating table with the EU should his Brexit Party take the most votes at the European election. “If millions of people voted for us, we need to have a say,” he told TalkRadio. In London, his newly formed party is poised to get a 20 per cent share on May 23, YouGov said.

Senior government aide Huw Merriman, who is parliamentary private secretary to the Chancellor, predicted “an absolute mauling” for the Conservatives in the European election, saying: “The public will blame the Conservative government because we were the party that brought forward the referendum.”

Downing Street and Mr Corbyn’s camp were due to resume the cross-party talks this afternoon. Mr Hunt said they had been “very, detailed discussions” despite the pessimism surrounding their prospects.

Asked if the Government could back a second referendum, he said ministers were aiming to honour the 2016 vote by delivering Brexit, but kept the door open by adding: “But let’s see where these talks go to.”
Jeremy Hunt posted on Twitter:

Mr Brokenshire said that if the talks failed, the Plan B would be to go back to Parliament. “To have almost not a series of indicative votes but actually a series of definitive votes to seek to get to a place of where that sense of where Parliament is, to be able to pass the Withdrawal Agreement Bill, to be able to have that vote to see that we leave — that’s the next stage,” he told the BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

The Labour leader faced fresh pressure from his deputy Mr Watson, who declared today that Labour is a “Remain and reform party” and stressed he would like to see a “confirmatory” vote on Mrs May’s Brexit proposals.

Backing shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer in an open challenge to Mr Corbyn, Mr Watson argued that it would be “very difficult” to get a sustainable parliamentary majority for a Brexit deal without a second referendum attached.

His intervention also highlighted the deep split in Labour over its EU policy. Shadow international trade secretary Barry Gardiner recently said: “Labour is not a Remain party now.”

Sir Keir spoke out today ahead of a meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, when MPs were set to demand that Mr Corbyn pull out of talks with the Government.

He believes that 120 to 150 Labour MPs would refuse to back a cross-party agreement if it fails to include another public vote on quitting the EU, which suggested it would be “impossible” to get it through the Commons given the level of Tory opposition.

Mr Watson echoed his concerns over the challenge to get a deal through Parliament without another referendum.

“The whipping arrangements for these deals is very difficult because MPs have hardened their positions within their parties,” he said. The deputy Labour leader argued that there would be a Commons majority by “plugging together” Mrs May’s plan with another public vote.

“So my idea of a confirmatory ballot is not a religious point or a point of ideology — it’s just how do you get an outcome,” he added, stressing he had reluctantly come to this conclusion and does not back a second referendum in all circumstances.

If the Prime Minister bowed to Labour’s demands and agreed to a customs union-based future relationship with the EU, then the shadow cabinet would have to decide whether to recommend another public vote, Mr Watson added, but he does not expect Mrs May to make the offer.

The poll of 1,015 Londoners was carried out from May 7 to 10 for QMUL’s Mile End Institute. Writing in the Standard, Professor Philip Cowley said the Conservatives were heading for their “worst result” in the capital since modern politics began.

greybeard

15th May 2019, 09:43

Brexit: May reveals plan for Commons vote on key legislation after late-night talks with Corbyn
The Independent Ashley Cowburn,The Independent

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-may-reveals-plan-commons-191200799.html

Theresa May has vowed to bring forward key Brexit legislation for a Commons vote in the first week of June in what could be her last move as prime minister.

After a face-to-face meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, the prime minister said the cross-party talks with Labour to find a solution to the deadlock at Westminster will continue - despite both sides being downbeat about any resolution being found.

It came as the cabinet set a summer deadline for the UK to finally leave the European Union, after an extended meeting on Tuesday lasting over two hours at Downing Street.

Ministers agreed it was "imperative" to pass legislation ratifying Brexit before parliament rises for the summer break in July, and decided not to terminate the talks with Labour, which are now in their seventh week.

Following discussions with the Labour leader, a Downing Street spokesman said: 'This evening the prime minister met the leader of the opposition in the House of Commons to make clear our determination to bring the talks to a conclusion and deliver on the referendum result to leave the EU."

"We will therefore be bringing forward the Withdrawal Agreement Bill in the week beginning the 3rd June," they added.

The spokesman also described the ongoing talks, which entered their seventh week on Monday, as "useful and constructive", adding further discussions will take place on Wednesday "as we seek the stable majority in parliament that will ensure the safe passage of the withdrawal agreement bill and the UK's swift exit from the EU".

Foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt also used a speech shortly after the cabinet meeting to warn that both the Conservative and Labour Party would be "crucified" by voters if they failed to respect the 2016 referendum result.

Referring to the cross-party talks, he told the Wall Street Journal CEO Council conference in London: "There is potential because when you look at the fundamentals it is actually in both parties' interests to resolve Brexit.

"Because both of us will be crucified by our base if we went into a general election having promised that we would respect the referendum result, not having respected it.

"And I think the lesson at the local elections is that the downside for Labour is as big as the downside for us. I don't think it's impossible that there could be a deal there."

But their was little enthusiasm in Brussels regarding any developments in Westminster, as a spokesperson for the EU commission said leaders of the 27 member states are on a "Brexit break".

They said the EU would only turn its attention to Brexit again "if there is something happening in London", as the UK's chief negotiator in the civil service, Olly Robbins, was expected to travel to the Belgian capital on Wednesday to discuss the future UK-EU relationship, post-Brexit.

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor and close ally of the Labour leader, earlier claimed there had been no "significant shift" from the government. "And, let's be absolutely straight, today hasn't helped," he said.

On the prospect of a new Conservative leader tearing up any agreement that is reached, he added: "Our big problem now is, if we are going to march our troops in parliament to the top of the hill for a deal and then that's overturned within weeks, I think that would be a cataclysmic act of bad faith."

greybeard

15th May 2019, 09:49

Anti-Brexit feeling expected to help SNP in European elections
The Guardian Libby Brooks and Severin Carrell,The Guardian

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/anti-brexit-feeling-expected-help-163038165.html

The element of “scunner” – Scottish slang for disgust or dislike – will be powerful among Scottish voters in next week’s EU elections, according to the MEP Alyn Smith, who has represented the Scottish National party in Brussels for the last 15 years.

“There are people who are tired of the whole Westminster mess and just won’t vote, but there’s also evidence on the doorstep that especially former Labour voters who have yet to be convinced about independence are lending the SNP their support because we have a clear message on Europe.”

Latest polls show the SNP is the only one of the three major parties in Scotland which is not losing votes over Brexit, explained Prof Sir John Curtice, the elections expert at the University of Strathclyde.

Its support is holding firm at 40%, in line with its popularity in Westminster and Holyrood polling, boosted by substantial numbers of remain voters whose allegiances have shifted from Labour or the Tories since the 2016 Holyrood election. The party is now poised to win three and potentially four of Scotland’s six EU seats.

With the SNP presenting itself as the logical pro-EU option north of the border – where 62% voted to remain in the 2016 referendum – the party leader, Nicola Sturgeon, urged voters to treat both Labour and the Conservatives as pro-Brexit parties when she launched her European election campaign last week.

Curtice said the polling evidence suggested Labour’s vote in Scotland was more pro-leave than the rest of the UK yet, like the Tories, its support at this election had been eroding, leaving it likely to lose one of its two European seats.

Many of those voters who have switched to the SNP replaced leave supporters who ditched the party after Sturgeon explicitly linked her renewed quest for a second independence referendum to opposing Brexit, in 2016.

Kirsty Hughes, director of the Scottish Centre on European Relations and campaigner for a second EU referendum, noted that, since 2016, polls had shown that SNP voters had become more strongly remain. “There is still a chunk of pro-independence, pro-leave support,” she said, “but it’s a bit of a stretch for them to vote for Nigel Farage.”

Despite Farage being famously hounded out of Edinburgh by protesters in 2013, a year later at the last EU elections Ukip unexpectedly won a Scottish seat, nearly doubling its support.

Curtice cautioned that the final results – including a potential seat for the Brexit party – were difficult to predict since there were significant differences between the two most recent polls.

A YouGov survey for the Times put Tory support at 10%, on the edge of defeat, compared with Farage’s Brexit party on 13%, just behind Labour on 14%. A Panelbase poll, however, reversed those findings. It put the Tories on 16% (excluding don’t knows) – enough to save its seat, and the Brexit party down at 10%, while Labour was on 20%, comfortably able to hold at least one seat.

Angus Robertson, the SNP’s former Westminster leader who recently launched a polling organisation gathering data on Scotland’s views on independence, said he expected the result to reflect “the extent to which Scottish politics and developments across the rest of the UK have diverged”.

“I expect the results will confirm strong anti-Brexit feeling in Scotland and be a good result for the SNP, which will underline calls for a second independence referendum and cement the constitutional question at the heart of Scottish politics.”

greybeard

15th May 2019, 10:36

Labour MP Wes Streeting tells Jeremy Corbyn to his face he should quit as party leader
Yahoo News UK Ross McGuinness,Yahoo News UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/labour-mp-wes-streeting-tells-jeremy-corbyn-to-his-face-he-should-quit-as-party-leader-125503775.html

A Labour MP has told Jeremy Corbyn to his face that he should quit as party leader.

Wes Streeting, MP for Ilford North, confronted his party leader at a meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

He told Mr Corbyn he needs to step down if the party is to have any chance of winning the next general election, Politics Home reported.

Mr Streeting said Mr Corbyn’s leadership has become “a bigger issue than Brexit” for the party.

Mr Corbyn is mired in internal fighting with his party over its position on Brexit and the upcoming European elections.

Politics Home reported that some backbenchers claim they have been banned from distributing their own campaign leaflets.

At the meeting in Parliament, Mr Streeting told Mr Corbyn: "What is being heard on the doorstep across the country and what people are saying in the tea room, but won’t say to your face, is that you are a bigger issue for us than Brexit.

“If you’re prepared to sacrifice our place in Europe because you think it will deliver a Labour government, why won’t you make way for a leader who can win a general election?”

Nigel Farage reveals he intends to stand as an MP for the eighth time

Hove MP Peter Kyle, who wants a second referendum on Brexit, said at the meeting: "Jeremy, I urge you to simplify our policy to make people realise that we are talking with absolute sincerity."

Mr Corbyn said at the meeting: "I do understand the frustrations about campaign material and the way in which they have been put to people. I'll be taking action immediately to make sure you get answers.

greybeard

16th May 2019, 07:53

Theresa May given 24-hour deadline to say when she will quit
Evening Standard JOE MURPHY,Evening Standard

Theresa May given 24-hour deadline to say when she will quit

Theresa May was served a deadline of 24 hours by senior Tory MPs today to clarify when she will leave office, or risk being forced out by a rebellion of MPs and activists.

Members of the 1922 Committee executive, the party heavyweights who represent Tory backbenchers, said they were not satisfied with the Prime Minister’s latest attempt to delay her departure to late July so she can have another try at getting MPs to pass her thrice-rejected Brexit deal.

“We need a clear timetable from the Prime Minister as to what point she will be stepping down and we will elect a new leader,” said Bob Blackman, an executive member and MP for Harrow West.

Another executive member, Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, told the Standard: “The problem of the hand-over date for the Prime Minister needs to be resolved sooner rather than later. Every week that uncertainty goes on is bad for the country and disastrous for the Conservative Party.

Campaign trail: Change UK’s Jessica Simor, MP Mike Gapes, Karen Newman, Annabel Mullin, Jan Vincent-Rostowski, Carol Tongue, Gavin Esler and Nora Mulready. Esler says his party are being targeted by the “Leave troll factory” (NIGEL HOWARD ©)

“She has had almost three years to negotiate this deal. Sadly, it is now time to hand over the reins to someone else with fresh ideas and the moral authority to lead the party.”

Sir Geoffrey added: “It would be infinitely preferable that the Prime Minister should set out this timetable herself rather than face the prospect of a vote of no confidence in her either by her parliamentary colleagues or by association chairs.”

The comments from the MPs make clear that Tories are not satisfied with the package Mrs May took to the Cabinet yesterday, which gave a strong signal that she intends to resign by the end of July if her deal is passed.

Privately, Tories are demanding a fixed timetable, including a pledge to go if her deal is shot down again, and an early start to a leadership contest so her successor has time for a Cabinet reshuffle and to prepare new policies for conference speeches.

MPs think a critical week will see the introduction of the delayed Withdrawal Agreement Bill on June 4, a vote on the Bill on June 5, and the Peterborough by-election on June 6. On June 12, it will be six months since the December vote of confidence which Mrs May won, and the 1922 Committee could vote on whether to change the rules to allow another. At the last such vote, it was defeated by a margin of two but at least one member has changed their mind. On June 15, members of the National Conservative Convention, which represents local party officials, will vote in an emergency meeting on whether to change the rules.

Nigel Evans, another executive member of the “22”, wrote on ConHome that Mrs May must show leadership and say when she is going: “My message to Theresa May is straightforward: the existential threat to my party is so real that every day of continued dithering and delay means that the bad place we are in becomes worse, and her successor will be handed a mission impossible of a job.”

Mrs May and Jeremy Corbyn held fresh talks last night, fuelling speculation the Bill could be a vehicle for cross-party co-operation, or even a deal. But the DUP’s Nigel Dodds predicted it was “highly likely” that it would be defeated a fourth time and Labour sources said they had not agreed any deal.

Former Brexit minister Steve Baker said: “Driving it through over the heads of the DUP appears to eradicate the Government’s majority. What is the Government thinking?”

International Trade Secretary Liam Fox served another warning today that Britain retaining a customs union with the EU would be a “major disincentive” to trade globally.

He said in a speech to the Institute for Government: “There would be a major disincentive for other countries to want to negotiate with us in a period where they didn’t know when the end of our customs union with the European Union would be and it’s likely, therefore, we would delay those discussions. That’s not something I want to see.”
Change team on poll war footing … but voters need convincing

Election Focus

In A north London gastro-pub, Britain’s newest political party is gathered over glasses of wine to discuss the European elections.

There’s “vegan fish and chips” on the menu of the Old Dairy in trendy Stroud Green. Around the room conversation is flowing as 20 or so volunteers and three election candidates talk enthusiastically. They are almost all disgruntled ex-Labour stalwarts looking for a new future that has Europe at its heart.

Welcome to Change UK, the party co-founded by Chuka Umunna which hopes the May 23 elections will provide a breakthrough moment. “The mainstream has become stranded in the wilderness,” said first-time MEP candidate Nora Mulready, who quit Labour after 20 years in January last year.

Carole Tongue, a former Labour MEP and deputy leader of the European Labour Party, said she jumped ship six weeks ago because Jeremy Corbyn has obliterated any pro-European sentiment Labour had.

“You’re looking at a woman who worked to ensure that Labour was a pro-EU party from 1984 to 1999,” she said. Spirits are high. They are clear what they stand for. But will the public embrace this bid to break the mould? One poll yesterday had the party as low as one per cent, and analyst Peter Kellner asks in a blog: “Has Change UK blown it?”

Wimbledon, an area that voted 62 per cent Remain, could be fertile ground for Change UK. Staff at Creams British Luxury cafe said they knew about the party but were divided on whether it would get their vote. James Hall, 20, from Ireland, said voting for a united Europe is a priority, adding: “I will look more into Change UK.” Colleague Shaun Bushby, 21, said: “It’s healthier for politics to have two new parties on the scene, the Brexit Party and Change UK. If Change UK does well at the EU election it will be interesting to see what their agenda is.”

But lawyer Sarah Prickett, 32, said: “I will probably vote but I don’t know who for. I don’t feel very enthusiastic.” She did not know much about Change UK but her friend Nicky Tibbs, 30, a teacher, interrupted: “That’s Chuka’s party. I’m not especially interested in it.”

David Kugler, 27, who was born in Hungary but has British citizenship, said: “I was thinking more of Labour.”

Sue Page, who works at pet store Creature Company, voted Leave in 2016 and may not vote next week because she has no faith anyone will listen. “I’m in two minds,” she said. “A lot of people don’t know what it will achieve.”

She too admitted she did not really know about Change UK. Polls suggest the party is losing ground to the Liberal Democrats and the Greens.

Gavin Esler, the former BBC presenter, is one of the big guns that Change UK hopes will wake up the voters. “I was born in a council house and I know the Nigels, Borises and Rees-Moggs weren’t,” said Esler, who grew up in Glasgow and is frustrated that Brexiteers like Nigel Farage pose as “real people” against a Remain elite. “The Leave troll factory has been attacking us, but they wouldn’t if we weren’t relevant. They wouldn’t be trying to strangle us at birth.”
By Kate Proctor

Asked if a vote was another “throw of the dice”, he said that if MPs voted down Mrs May’s deal Britain would head either for a no-deal exit or for the cancellation of Brexit.

He added: “Yes, there’ll be an opportunity for MPs to decide … whether they want to vote for Brexit or not. I think MPs will have to look and see whether they want to continue down a path inexorably that takes us either to the potential of revocation of Article 50 or leaving without a deal and asking whether that’s the best course democratically or economically for the UK? MPs will have to face that decision.”

He said MPs would “have to face the political consequences of failing to carry out their part of the bargain” if Brexit was stopped.

greybeard

16th May 2019, 17:13

Not that I know anything about it but as far as I can see.
There are three options.
Leave without a deal.
Dont leave.
Accept the May deal.

No matter the leader the European Union is not for changing.
So a new PM is not going to have any other than the three choices.
So the May deal would be unacceptable--just left with the other two I assume.

My money on not leaving---Ive been wrong before--smiling.

Chris

greybeard

17th May 2019, 09:55

Brexit disarray returns: talks about to fail as May's premiership fades
[Reuters]
By Guy Faulconbridge
,Reuters•May 17, 2019

https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-talks-between-britains-two-main-parties-end-060519832.html
European Union flags flutter as uncertainty over Brexit continues, in London, Britain April 10, 2019. REUTERS/Gonzalo Fuentes/Files

By Guy Faulconbridge

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's tumultuous divorce from the European Union was again in disarray on Friday as last-ditch cross-party talks teetered on the brink of failure in the twilight of Prime Minister Theresa May's premiership.

Nearly three years after the United Kingdom unexpectedly voted in a referendum to leave the EU, it is still unclear how, when or if it will ever indeed quit the European club it joined in 1973.

Brexit talks between May's Conservatives and the opposition Labour Party are about to close without an agreement, the BBC said, hours after May agreed on Thursday to set out a timetable for her departure in early June.

"If the talks are not going anywhere, from my point of view that leads to only one conclusion," Hilary Benn, the chairman of parliament's Brexit committee, told BBC radio.

"There are only two ways out of the Brexit crisis that we've got: either parliament agrees a deal or we go back to the British people and ask them to make the choice."

After the Brexit deal that May struck with Brussels was defeated a third time by parliament, she announced on April 2 that she would open talks with Labour. But the two parties have failed to agree on major issues such as the opposition party's demand for a post-Brexit customs union.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, a veteran socialist who voted against membership of the EU in 1975, has said that May refused to budge on key demands.

May's hands have been tied, knowing that to make concessions to Labour would lead to fury in her divided party. Labour has feared that any compromises on issues such as workers' rights would be torn up by May's successor.

The two party leaders will now move to a second phase, aimed at agreeing on a process for parliamentary votes designed to find a consensus, the BBC said.

MAY ENDS IN JUNE

May agreed on Thursday to set out a timetable for her departure in early June, after a fourth and final attempt to push her Brexit deal through parliament.

May has promised to step down after it is approved by lawmakers. But many in her party want her to quit if the deal is rejected again and others are demanding her immediate departure.

Boris Johnson, the face of the campaign for Britain to leave the European Union, said he would be standing as a candidate to replace May as Conservative leader.

"Tories must go with Boris Johnson if they want to survive or they’ll end up as dead as a dodo," Sun columnist Trevor Kavanagh said. "Even sopping wet Remainers can see the writing on the wall and want Theresa May out as fast as possible."

The winner of a leadership contest will automatically become prime minister and will take control of the Brexit process, which has plunged Britain into its worst political crisis since World War Two.

Johnson has been one of May's most outspoken critics over Brexit and supports leaving the EU without a deal. But the current parliament has repeatedly said it doesn't want a no-deal Brexit.

A YouGov poll for the Times ahead of European elections on May 23 showed that the far smaller Liberal Democrats opposition have overtaken Labour while the Conservatives have been pushed into fifth place, with the newly-formed Brexit Party in first.

greybeard

18th May 2019, 16:07

Brexit: Government offering fresh MPs' vote on second referendum and no-deal outcome
The Independent Andrew Woodcock,The Independent Fri, 17 May

Theresa May has offered to give MPs the opportunity to vote on a second referendum and a no-deal Brexit in a series of “indicative votes” in the first week of June, according to a document leaked from cross-party talks.

The document, obtained by The Independent, suggests MPs would be invited to vote on whether to rule out any Final Say referendum. And it makes clear the Prime Minister is ready to give Conservative MPs a free vote on the issue, so long as Jeremy Corbyn does the same for Labour.

It is understood that the plan was drawn up by the Government as it became clear that the talks would not produce a compromise Brexit deal, but has not been agreed by Labour.

The document emerged just moments before Mr Corbyn pulled the plug on the talks process, which has stretched over more than six weeks but appears to have foundered on the issue of post-Brexit customs arrangements and Labour concerns that any deal could be torn up by a future Tory leader.

The plan set out in the leaked paper envisages a series of four votes to take place on June 5 on:

Whether the UK should leave the EU with a deal
Setting a new deadline of July 31 for Brexit
Ruling out a second referendum
A package of Goverment concessions to Labour on issues like workers’ rights and participation in EU agencies.

Crucially, the paper indicates that the two sides have not agreed on post-Brexit customs arrangements. It proposes a separate series of “elimination ballots” on a range of four options, from Labour’s favoured comprehensive customs union with a UK say to a looser arrangement allowing Britain to forge its own deals elsewhere in the world.

Results from the four indicative votes and the elimination ballots are unlikely to be known in time to shape the drafting of Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement Bill, due to come back before the Commons in the week of June 3, says the document. But under the indicative votes plan, MPs’ preferences would be reflected in draft Government amendments to the legislation.

The plan was denounced by People's Vote campaigners as a "cynical" attempt to block a second Brexit referendum.

Labour MP Alex Sobel, a supporter of People's Vote, said: “This is the battle plan for a desperate Prime Minister to freeze the people out of the biggest decision facing the country in two generations.

“Perhaps the most shocking aspect of this proposed stitch-up is that it has been drawn up with the idea that Labour could be persuaded to sign up to it.

“If this cynical plan shows anything, it is that Theresa May hopes her legacy will be to stop the public from having the Final Say on a deal that neither Parliament or the country wants. It seems she is perfectly happy to trade any promise she has ever made on Brexit just so long as she can keep the ultimate decision in the hands of politicians.

“For Labour the choice is now as much moral as it is political.

“It can choose to endorse a Conservative plan that cuts people out of the decision by propping up an ailing Government’s decrepit strategy that will dismay both sides of the Brexit debate. It can choose to defy the overwhelming majority of its members, voters and MPs. It can choose endorsement of a broken Brexit deal that breaks most of the promises made for Brexit and in which any concessions will doubtless be ripped up by the hardliner chosen by the Tory members to replace the Prime Minister."

“Or Labour can now take a stand and make it clear there is no prospect of Labour ever agreeing to any Brexit deal that is not handed back to the people for the final say.”

greybeard

20th May 2019, 07:03

EU will not renegotiate Brexit deal with new UK PM, says Irish foreign minister
PA Ready News UK By David Young, Press Association,PA Ready News UK

Simon Coveney described political events at Westminster as 'extraordinary'.

The EU will not renegotiate the Brexit withdrawal deal regardless of who the UK’s next prime minister is, Ireland’s foreign minister has warned.

Simon Coveney described political events at Westminster as “extraordinary”, as he questioned the logic of politicians who believed a change of leader would deliver changes to the agreement struck by Theresa May.

“The EU has said very clearly that the Withdrawal Agreement has been negotiated over two-and-a-half years, it was agreed with the British government and the British cabinet and it’s not up for renegotiation, even if there is a new British prime minister,” he said.

“The personality might change but the facts don’t.”

In a scathing assessment of the political situation in the UK, Mr Coveney told RTE that Britain could trigger a no deal by “default” if its MPs failed to get their act together.

He said he believed Mrs May was a “decent person” trying to find a middle ground position, but had been thwarted by an “impossible” Conservative Party.

Mr Coveney said the UK should not assume another extension will be granted by the EU if a deal is not agreed by the latest October deadline. He said the EU was set for major changes and challenges as a result of the European elections and would likely be prepared to devote less focus on Brexit going forward.

“That’s my concern – that Britain will fail to get its act together over the summer,” he said.

“There will be people like Nigel Farage and some within the Conservative Party who will be making the proposition that ‘look, we have had enough of this, let’s just leave on WTO (World Trade Organisation) terms without a deal’ – in my view not fully understanding or not being honest about the full consequences of that for Britain and Ireland.”

He added: “The danger of course is that the British system will simply not be able to deal with this issue and even though there is a majority in Westminster who want to be able to prevent a no-deal Brexit it could happen by default.”

Mr Coveney said Ireland would continue its no-deal Brexit contingency planning .

He noted that political parties had largely spoken with the same voice in Ireland.

“In the UK no two parties seem to be able to agree on anything, despite the extraordinary dangers that Britain is potentially going to be exposed to in the autumn,” he said.

Noting the prospect of Mrs May offering pledges on technological solutions for the Irish border in her final bid to get the withdrawal treaty through Parliament next month, Mr Coveney said he did not have an issue with that as long as it did not undermine the border backstop provisions within the Withdrawal Agreement.

The Tanaiste said UK politicians who thought a new prime minister could strike a new deal did not understand the EU.

“For the EU and Ireland this has always been about the complexity of Brexit, trying to protect the EU, its integrity, its single market, its customs union, its members and also trying to respect the decision of British people,” he said.

“It’s always been about that. For Britain in many ways it’s been about party politics and personalities and many people seem to think that Britain would have got a much better deal if only they had a tougher prime minister.

“In my view that just is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the European Union operates.

“The EU is a treaty-based, precedent-based series of institutions, it doesn’t have a lot of flexibility and that’s why this negotiation has been about detail, regulation, legal provisions and so on.

“And I think the British Prime Minister understands that and that is why she has agreed to reasonable compromises in certain areas.

“But there are many British politicians who don’t, quite frankly, understand that or the complexity of politics in Northern Ireland and therefore they have tried to dumb this debate down into a simplistic argument whereby it’s Britain versus the EU, as opposed to two friends tying to navigate through the complexity of a very, very difficult agreement.”

norman

20th May 2019, 22:44

:)

DPn0O2PRpD0

greybeard

21st May 2019, 19:55

A dog's breakfast': May heading for another Brexit humiliation as attempt to win over MPs falls flat
Yahoo News UK Will Metcalfe,Yahoo News UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/theresa-may-reveals-latest-bold-new-brexit-plan-153142656.html

Theresa May has set out her last-ditch plan to rescue her Brexit deal, telling MPs they have “one final chance” to deliver a smooth exit from the EU.

Caving to pressure from Labour and Tory Remainers, the Prime Minister confirmed plans to let MPs decide whether to hold a second referendum - but only on the condition they vote for her Withdrawal Agreement Bill.

She said MPs will vote in parliament on whether to hold a second referendum, despite her belief that the 2016 vote should continue to be honoured.

She said: "The Government will include in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill at introduction a requirement to vote on whether to hold a second referendum and this must take place before the Withdrawal Agreement can be ratified.

“If MPs vote against the second reading of this bill they are voting to stop Brexit.”

greybeard

22nd May 2019, 21:28

Theresa May deserted by her own MPs as Commons leader Leadsom quits
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/furious-tories-to-try-and-oust-theresa-may-today-following-latest-brexit-deal-proposals-065223761.html

Theresa May’s future as Prime Minister is hanging by a thread after Commons leader Andrea Leadsom quit as swathes of Tories deserted the PM over her latest plans for Brexit.

Mrs May is facing mounting pressure from her own party to resign or be ousted, but she insisted today: “I believe in what I’m doing.”

Cabinet ministers joined the revolt, signalling they were no longer willing to back PM after she buckled under pressure and opened the door to a second Brexit referendum.

Leading the charge was Mrs Leadsom, who quit the government at around 7.30 pm.

In her resignation letter, Mrs Leadsom said: “I do not believe that we will be a truly sovereign United Kingdom through the deal that is now proposed. I have always maintained that a second referendum would be dangerously divisive.”

A Number 10 spokesperson said: "We are disappointed that she has chosen to resign, and the prime minister remains focused on delivering the Brexit people voted for."

Other cabinet ministers requested private meetings with the PM to express their fury and demand she change tack or accept she no longer has a hold on power.

Tory backbenchers stepped up their attacks over the course of the day, making their opposition to Mrs May’s leadership clear.

However, the 1922 Committee - a group a powerful backbench MPs - decided no to change the rules of the Tory party to allow MPs another vote on Theresa May’s leadership.

As it stands, a leadership challenge cannot be brought until December as the PM survived a no-confidence vote at the end of last year.

The PM will meet the 1922 Committee on Friday, suggesting her job is safe until then.

And in a highly visible sign that Mrs May’s authority is slipping away, Brexit-supporting colleagues were absent for the start of Prime Minister’s Questions, with Cabinet ministers including Mrs Leadsom only appearing once the session was well under way.

A disastrous performance in the European elections could also precipitate her resignation on Monday.

The Conservative Party is careering towards a humiliation in the European Parliamentary elections.

The gloomiest polls for the Tories predict the party will win just 7% of the vote, behind the Greens and Lib Dems and trailing far behind the Brexit Party who are comfortably in the lead.

It all follows the PM’s last-ditch effort to unite MPs behind her deal yesterday, offering the possibility of a second referendum in an attempt to get Labour behind her.

norman

23rd May 2019, 10:07

I've just voted.

Interestingly, The party at the very top of the list is called:

Change UK - The Independent Party. [what a laff]

I suppose that's not biased fiddling is it? I also suppose that will gain them all the very low IQ votes they can harvest from such a stunt.

Let's see if it does them any good or not.

greybeard

23rd May 2019, 10:13

I just haven't voted--smiling.
I think the polls have it right--winging it will be Nigel's party.
Winging it will be Conservatives.
Chris

greybeard

23rd May 2019, 16:02

Thousands of EU citizens have been turned away from polling stations and prevented from voting in the European elections.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/eu-citizens-denied-their-vote-124040805.html

Voting in the elections began at 7am on Thursday morning but it wasn’t long before voters from other EU member states living in the UK began to say they had been stopped from casting their vote.

Many tweeted to voice their anger, and the hashtag ‘DeniedMyVote’ began trending before 10am.

An EU citizens' rights group the3million has branded the government and the Electoral Commission as “incompetent” and said the scale of the problem was “outrageous”.

Agata Patnya, an immigration and human rights barrister, was one of the first to tweet about the issue, saying she had specifically phoned her local council to check she could vote only to be turned away.

She tweeted: “Turned away from polling station this morning. Told I should vote in my EU member state. Called local council yesterday, they confirmed I could vote. Called again today. Apparently council had no time to send out forms to all EU residents. Nothing they can do now.

“I registered before the deadline. Have been here since 2005. Voted many times before. This is my member state.”

The main problem appears to be a second form that EU citizens had to fill out which was poorly announced, and most people said that there were not even aware this was a requirement.

A rule prevents people from voting twice, one in their host EU state and another in the country where they’re from, and this form was the Electoral Commission’s interpretation of that rule.

Stories have also emerged of administrative errors, a lack of correct forms being sent out to voters and late registration due to the council not processing the forms on time, causing people to become unable to cast their ballot.

Lukas Hardt commented saying: “I can't vote today because Glasgow City Council say they never received my registration form as an EU national. I posted it well in time, from a letter box in Glasgow. When I called them to enquire, it was too late. So disappointing! EUelections2019 #DeniedMyVote.”

Professor Tanja Bueltmann, a migration historian at the University of Northumbia, created the hashtag last night in preparation for the EU election.

She told Yahoo News UK: “I’m shocked. I thought there would be a number of stories, but not to this extent.

“The local council knew about the second form, but the Electoral Commission didn’t communicate clearly about how it should be carried out, which meant that some councils informed all EU citizens in their area, and others didn’t.

“This may have happened because they didn’t have enough staff or time, but they should have made sure everyone knew about it.

“Theresa May was aware of this problem, she was even directly asked in the PMQs, and completely failed to make arrangements, like allowing EU citizens to fill out the form on the day.

“There have also been stories emerging of people who had filled in all the correct forms, did everything well before the deadline, and still they are being turned away.”

CEO of the3million Nicolas Hatton said: “Today, we are seeing thousands of EU citizens turned away from the polling booths.

“It is outrageous that the incompetence and unwillingness of the government and the Electoral Commission have denied these people a vote.

“the3million is calling for a full investigation of this democratic disaster that has disenfranchised many of the European citizens most affected by the outcome of these elections.

“In the meantime, we urge all EU citizens who were denied their vote to complain on social media using #DeniedMyVote, and write to their MP and the Electoral Commission to express their outrage.”

This is not a new incident, as a similar matter happened at the last European election in 2014, though on a smaller scale, and the problem had been noted by the Electoral Commission.

This has also corresponded with UK citizens in EU member states being denied their votes as their voting cards arrived too late.

greybeard

23rd May 2019, 17:03

News
UK heading for another Brexit extension in October, suggests Juncker
The Guardian Daniel Boffey in Brussels,The Guardian

Jean-Claude Juncker has suggested that the UK is drifting towards another Brexit extension in October as he criticised MPs for prioritising the prime minister’s removal over finding agreement on a Brexit deal.

With May appearing on the brink of resignation, the European commission president spoke of his admiration for her resilience and his disdain for the attempts to remove her.

“What I don’t like in the British debate is it seems more important to replace the prime minister than to find an agreement among themselves,” Juncker said in an interview with CNN. “This is a woman who knows how to do things but she is unable to succeed in doing things. I like her very much; she is a tough person.”

Junker told CNN that he was “fed up” with the ongoing impasse but suggested that Brussels was resigned to a further request to extend the UK’s membership this autumn.

The UK has until 31 October to agree a deal, leave without an agreement or seek a further extension of the article 50 negotiating period.

Juncker said: “I hope they will agree among themselves, and they will leave [the EU] by the end of October ... I think it’s their patriotic duty to get an agreement.

“I am getting fed up because we are [just] waiting for the next extension.”

The commission president added that it was not about the “identity of the next prime minister; it’s about the withdrawal agreement”.

(May 23, 2019)

European parliament elections take place across the UK and the rest of the EU Nigel Farage’s Brexit party and the Liberal Democrats have both seen surges in support in the polls leading up to the election.

(May 26, 2019)

Results of the European elections are declared from 10pm, with the Conservatives expecting massive losses.

(June 3, 2019)

Theresa May is planing to bring her withdrawal agreement back to to parliament for another vote.

(June 30, 2019)

This is the crucial date past which May said she would not countenance the UK staying in the EU. May must have passed her withdrawal deal before this date in order avoid British MEPs taking up their seats.

(September 5, 2019)

The Commons is expected to return from summer recess, bar any early recall to deal with a Brexit crisis.

(September 22, 2019)

The Labour and Conservative party conferences are held on consecutive weeks.

(October 8, 2019)

MPs return to parliament after the party conference season, 18 working days before the UK would be due to leave the EU.

(October 10, 2019)

This is the last practical polling date on which a prime minister could hold a general election or second referendum – the final Thursday before the next meeting of the European council.

(October 17, 2019)

EU leaders meet for the final meeting of the European council before the UK’s extension is due to expire.

(October 31, 2019)

The six-month article 50 extension will expire.

(December 12, 2019)

The next date on which Tory MPs can hold a confidence vote in Theresa May, if she remains at the helm.

Rowena Mason

The commission president’s backing is unlikely to dissuade many Conservative cabinet ministers and MPs from seeking to force the prime minister out of office.

Following the resignation of the leader of the House of Commons, Andrea Leadsom, on Wednesday, May’s hold on power looked weaker than ever before.

With the EU refusing to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement, Juncker suggested that there was little to be gained in changing the country’s leadership.

One of the stated reasons for Leadsom’s resignation was May’s offer to facilitate a vote in the Commons on a potential second referendum.

Juncker struck a sceptical note when asked whether he agreed with Donald Tusk, his counterpart in the European council, that the UK should hold a second Brexit vote.

He said: “I would like to say yes to a second referendum, but the result might not be any different. We are observers in a British stadium – it’s up for them to decide.”

As leader of the House of Commons, Leadsom had been expected to give details on Thursday of the withdrawal agreement bill. But she claimed in her resignation letter that she could not sign up to facilitating another referendum.

In her response, May denied that this was her intention. “I do not agree with you that the deal which we have negotiated with the European Union means that the United Kingdom will not become a sovereign country,” May wrote.

May said that any bill was likely to attract an amendment seeking to bring a second referendum about. “That is why at cabinet yesterday we agreed to bring the bill forward and allow those MPs who want another referendum to put their case,” the prime minister said.

greybeard

24th May 2019, 09:10

Teresa May at this moment giving resignation speech.
10am Friday May 24th

June7th is the date

Chris

greybeard

24th May 2019, 09:31

Theresa May resigns as Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative Party
Yahoo News UK Matilda Long,Yahoo News UK

Prime Minister Theresa May makes a statement outside at 10 Downing Street in London, where she announced she is standing down as Tory party leader on Friday June 7.
Prime Minister Theresa May makes a statement outside at 10 Downing Street in London, where she announced she is standing down as Tory party leader on Friday June 7.

Theresa May has announced she is to stand down as Prime Minister on 7 June following months of mounting pressure over her failure to deliver Brexit.

Her voice cracking, the Prime Minister said it had been ‘the honour of my life’ to serve ‘the country that I love’.

In an emotional speech, Mrs May said she had ‘done her best’ to deliver the result of the EU referendum.

“It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit,” she said.

Mrs May will remain in post until a successor is chosen.
Prime Minister Theresa May makes a statement outside at 10 Downing Street in London, where she announced she is standing down as Tory party leader on Friday June 7.
Theresa May announced her departure outside Number 10 Downing Street this morning (PA Images)

The final straw of her doomed premiership came when a last-gasp effort to win support for her Withdrawal Agreement Bill backfired spectacularly and it became obvious her Brexit deal was dead in the water.

Brexiteers within her own party were enraged by the concession of the offer of a potential second referendum and customs union arrangement announced on Tuesday.

She also lost the support of many senior Cabinet members who made it clear her time was up.

Labour and the DUP also said they would not support the deal.

Andrea Leadsom dealt another blow when she quit as Commons leader on Wednesday evening saying she had lost confidence Mrs May would "deliver on the referendum result".
British Prime Minister Theresa May is seen departing from Number 10 Downing Street to attend Prime Minister's Questions (PMQs) in the House of Commons on the eve of European Parliament elections. (Photo by Dinendra Haria / SOPA Images/Sipa USA)
Theresa May's final attempt to deliver Brexit was a spectacular failure. (Photo by Dinendra Haria / SOPA Images/Sipa USA)

Mrs May delivered her speech this morning shortly after meeting the chairman of Tory backbenchers at 9am. The timing means a new Tory leader - and therefore Prime Minister - should be in place by the end of July.

Her announcement means she will still be in power for Donald Trump’s state visit on 3-5 June.

It also comes the day after European elections, in which the Tories are expected to perform disastrously.

Boris Johnson is the current favourite to replace Mrs May.
‘Brexit means Brexit’

Theresa May’s failure to lead Britain out of the EU ultimately led to her demise as Prime Minister.

After campaigning for Remain during the Brexit campaign, she faced an uphill struggle to persuade anybody to believe in her born-again Brexiteer credentials.
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson and Brexit Secretary David Davis await the arrival of Prime Minister Theresa May before she delivers her keynote speech to delegates and party members on the last day of the Conservative Party Conference at Manchester Central on October 4, 2017 in Manchester, England. The prime minister rallied members and called for the party to
Theresa May's proposed Brexit deal struggled to win the support of Brexiteer Conservatives. (Photo by Christopher Furlong/Getty Images)

Despite her often repeated soundbite of 'Brexit means Brexit', the deal she managed to negotiate with the EU was essentially deemed not Brexit-y enough for the hardline Eurosceptics in her party.

A number of her own MPs refused to be won over and voted against her deal - some of them on each of the three occasions she put it before MPs - and her last-gasp effort to win over the Commons was what eventually forced open the exit door.
'No deal is better than a bad deal'

Before January 2017 hardly anyone had an opinion on a no-deal Brexit. But after Theresa May introduced the notion that ‘no deal was better than a bad deal’, the idea of abandoning the difficult negotiations with the EU and leaving without an agreement was seized upon by Eurosceptic Tories.

Warnings about the consequences of no deal - food shortages, expensive groceries, miles-long queues at the Dover border, compromised safety for citizens - weren't enough to persuade rebel MPs to back a deal they feared could potentially tie the UK to Brussels indefinitely.

It was clear by spring of this year Mrs May no longer - or never had - believed no deal was a viable option. Unfortunately for her, Brexiteer MPs disagreed and remained willing to vote down her deal.
'Strong and stable leadership'

Theresa May inherited a slim majority when she took over as Prime Minister.

Cashing in on her apparent popularity and wishing to gift herself a smoother ride through Parliament, Mrs May called a General Election to take place in June 2017.
Attendees hold a placard bearing the slogan 'Theresa May: Strong, Stable Leadership in the national interest' at a Conservative Party general-election campaign event in Norwich, U.K., on Wednesday, June 7, 2017. MayÂ said she'd be willing to tear up human-rights legislation to combat terrorism in a move the Labour opposition said was an attempt to distract from her cuts to police, as security dominated the closing stages of the U.K. election campaign. Photographer: Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg
Theresa May's attempt to persuade the country to support her 'strong and stable leadership' in a General Election massively backfired. (Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg)

But her campaign slogan - urging voters to back her ‘strong and stable leadership’ - didn’t work. During the campaign support for Labour and Jeremy Corbyn surged and voters abandoned May.

She ended up losing her majority and was forced into partnership with the DUP, making it much more difficult for her to get Brexit legislation approved.
Crumbling cabinet

Theresa May premiership was beset by a record number of resignations.

36 minister have quit during her time in office, many in protest at the way she has dealt with - or failed to deal with - Brexit.
Cabinet resignations & dismissals 1998-2019. See story POLITICS Brexit. Infographic from PA Graphics
Cabinet resignations & dismissals 1998-2019

That works out at a rate of roughly 1.5 resignations per month, although in practice they tend to come in packs after a major event.

The resignation of Andrea Leadsom as Leader of the House of Commons is widely seen as the death blow to Mrs May, demonstrating beyond dispute that she is unable to win the support of the Tories.

greybeard

24th May 2019, 16:47

Boris Johnson says he's willing to take the UK out of the EU without a deal
Yahoo News UK David Harding,Yahoo News UK

Boris Johnson said today he would take the UK out of the EU without a deal.

Mr Johnson confirmed his plan to run to be the next Tory party leader at a conference in Switzerland today.

Speaking just hours after a tearful Theresa May announced she was stepping down, Johnson said: “Of course I am going to go for it”.

The former Foreign Secretary is easily the front runner to succeed Mrs May, and was immediately installed as favourite by bookmakers thanks to his huge popularity with Conservative Party members.

He said today: “The way to get a good deal is to prepare for a no deal.”

norman

24th May 2019, 16:51

Theresa May

“It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit,” she said.

What the hell was stopping you, lass. Care to name names ? . . .care at all ?

norman

24th May 2019, 18:07

greybeard

24th May 2019, 18:59

There's a problem with Boris taking over too.

He was foreign secretary when the UK collaborated with the Fisagate criminals to stop Trump getting elected and get rid of him after he was. Heck it could even turn out that it was the UK behind the whole thing. He's not going to be anything more than an unstable temp. If that's where we are going, we might as well have Farage and be done with it, as initially frightening as that might look, even to me.

I agree Norman.
Of the many challenges a border between N Ireland an the South remains a big one.
We exit without a deal that's them in the biggest mess imaginable.
A right wing Tory party is not electable as far as I can see.
That's if the next PM is right of centre
.
Funnily enough if the current Chancellor put his name forward that might be an answer.
He is well respected, a quiet one, but still waters run deep.
Who knows where this is going.
Chris

norman

24th May 2019, 20:11

Of the many challenges a border between N Ireland and the South remains a big one.
We exit without a deal that's them in the biggest mess imaginable.

And there are probably certain factions hastily trying to use the time we have foolishly given them to make that a pass we get cut off at. As I've already referred to, earlier in this thread;

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91509-The-UK-Brexit-vote-to-leave-the-EU&p=1287683&viewfull=1#post1287683

greybeard

26th May 2019, 07:07

News
The three big lies we were told that led to Brexit, the most damaging lie of all
The Independent Simon Wren-Lewis,The Independent

In 1999, the EU elections were dominated by Labour and the Conservatives, with Ukip getting little more than 6 per cent of the vote. It was the second year of a Labour government that would bring us a decade of economic and political stability – until the global financial crisis.

Fast forward to today. Recent opinion polls give the Brexit party over 30 per cent of the vote for the European elections, a party with no members and Nigel Farage being the only recognisable person in it. Government business has ground to a halt because of Brexit and the withdrawal bill has still not been passed by parliament.

How did the UK get in this situation where those overseas see us with a mixture of incredulity and sadness? It’s a story of political deceit and media disinformation. Four big lies that were told that had profound consequences on the people and how they were governed.

The first lie was austerity. Politicians, but also the media, told us the government had to cut spending to prevent another financial disaster. Most economists disagreed with this theory. There was never even a chance of a financial crisis in the years after 2010, and even when that became clear to everyone, austerity continued. I estimate the average household lost resources worth £10,000 as a result of this disastrous policy, and many suffered much more than the average.

The second lie had two components, and together they led to the Conservatives’ victory in the 2015 general election. The first was that the Labour government had been profligate before the crisis. A simple look at the data shows this to be untrue. The second was that the economy was strong. In reality we had the slowest recovery in centuries and an unprecedented decline in real wages.

The third lie was that immigration, rather than austerity, was responsible for those falling wages and reduced access to public services. The Conservative Party and their supporters in the press had started pushing this lie during the Labour government. Under the 2010 coalition, the lie was embodied in immigration targets that were never met. This helped create a public view that controlling immigration was important but because of freedom of movement, the goal was impossible to achieve.

This context was the fatal background to the Brexit vote: the biggest and most damaging lie of all. The right-wing press groomed its readers with countless stories of “Brussels bureaucrats” that were mostly untrue. As a result of this misinformation, the public questioned the economic impact of Brexit, but believed limiting immigration would improve their access to public services.

Where did these falsehoods come from and why were they not challenged? The answer is neoliberalism and a ruthless desire for power. The aim of austerity was to shrink the state, something that is unpopular among the overwhelming majority. Creating a panic about the deficit was an opportunity to achieve a key goal of neoliberalism through deceit. Neoliberals have no desire to restrict immigration, but they correctly judged it was a means to gain votes among left-leaning, socially conservative voters. Anti-immigration feeling combined with the impact of austerity created the perfect conditions for a vote to leave the EU, a vote made possible by a Conservative victory in 2015. The leaders of Brexit were partly motivated by a belief that the EU was preventing the neoliberal goal of further deregulation in labour markets and environmental controls.

The only way out of this chaos is to elect a radical government that can tackle some of the inequalities that were created by a neoliberal era. But they also need to do something about a rabid right wing press and a broadcast media that balances lies with truth. It is a tragedy of our times that the one party pledged to do this has a leader who thinks he can compromise with Brexit.

Simon Wren-Lewis is an emeritus professor of economics and fellow of Merton College, University of Oxford. He blogs at mainlymacro.blogspot.com and is the author of The Lies We Were Told: Politics, Economics, Austerity and Brexit

greybeard

26th May 2019, 08:27

The Andrew Marr BBC1 show will be interesting today. Sunday 26th May.
I havent a clue as to which outcome would be best for the UK.
All have an agenda and the media is full of "convenient" half truths.

Chris

Deux Corbeaux

26th May 2019, 08:36

Somehow I have the feeling that eventually a Brexit is never going to happen......

norman

26th May 2019, 10:05

greybeard

26th May 2019, 10:14

With so much following the Main stream news and opinion, Chris, I guess you're not a conspiracy theorist at all then ?

You don't believe there's a plot to take over the world and rule it with a technological iron fist?

Oh yes I believe that there is a plot norman.
Its been on going as long as there has been "civilization"
Every war fought has been brought about by the illuminate or similar.
But I am not a rampant conspiracy theorist---now.
My focus is outlined in the spiritual section.
Chris

norman

26th May 2019, 10:53

I understand and respect your position Chris, even though I almost never go to the spiritual section.

Life's been a bundle of lessons for me so far. The most exasperating one that I still can't get fully settled about is the fact that information makes the mind, just as much as how it's processed amd related outwards among us. We can culturalise just about anything at all. If we can more or less agree on how to share it as a culture we are good to go. Trouble is, go where ?

That's how easy it is for an entitiy or entities to lead/drive a whole culture or race or planet anywhere they want it to go.

When I meditate or just sleep a lot and wake up refreshed, I'm staring right at the fact we, even the smartest of us, are just a cargo cult getting on with life as well as we can. What a huge hole in the logic that is, eh . . .

I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't have a nagging feeling there is something very significant about the fact that there are/is more than one of us here doing this living thing. Whatever the singularity of the 'source' might be, while we are here as billions of individuals, I get a strong hunch that a sovereignty of the individual is the peg that stretches out the whole challenge. I know others strongly believe it's all about dropping the individual and becoming a singular collective. At this point in history that's a massive issue, haha.

In my strongly held opinion, individual sovereignty based culture is the only thing that's got what it takes to get us over the hump of getting free from being malevolently ruled over. That's just as true for me even if the human race was just someone else's genetic tweak project.

We've got a highly polarised 'battlefield" forming here. What on earth is going on ?

Meanwhile, back in the brexit zoo, I think we get the 'results' today, don't we?

greybeard

26th May 2019, 10:56

Having watched the the Andrew Marr show I have to say I was impressed by the current chancellor who is not running for the position of the next PM.
The thread is not about my position or lack of it.
All I can say is that im 73 and have lived through and survived changes of Government--joining the Common Market etc.
There will be winners and looser no matter which way it goes, that's life.
So I can enjoy the soap opera of Brexit without being affected by it but yet have concern for those that will have to live with the end result for a very long time.

Im concerned that Cydersomerset, who started this thread, has not been posting---any word of him.
I did PM him some weeks ago but no response.
Chris

greybeard

26th May 2019, 12:40

News
Has Boris Johnson destroyed his premiership before it has even begun?
The Independent John Rentoul,The Independent

Boris Johnson began his leadership campaign by making a promise he cannot deliver. “We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal,” he said yesterday. He had to say it, because no candidate can expect to win the leadership election without such a pledge.

But I do not believe it is possible for any prime minister to take the UK out of the EU without a deal at the end of October. Johnson would be removed from office before he could do so. This may sound extreme, but it is a question of numbers.

The Conservatives with the DUP have a majority in the House of Commons of five, assuming Peterborough stays in opposition hands after the by-election the week after next. There are three Labour or former Labour MPs who support a no-deal exit: Kate Hoey, Kelvin Hopkins and Graham Stringer.

That means it would take only six Conservative MPs to deprive Johnson of his majority. There are many more than six Tory MPs who think a no-deal exit would be so damaging they are prepared to put country before party.

We can start with the six who have consistently voted against leaving the EU at all – let alone without a deal. Dominic Grieve was out and about yesterday saying that he would “take all steps necessary” to stop a no-deal exit. This group includes Jo Johnson, the putative prime minister’s brother, which sets up the intriguing possibility of a family drama even greater than that of David and Ed Miliband. Would Jo vote to bring down Boris, just a few weeks after he entered No 10?

Perhaps the tie of fraternal loyalty would stay his hand, but there are many other Conservative MPs – some of them even in the cabinet – who would do whatever it took to avoid what they call a “disorderly exit” from the EU.

There has been much learned constitutional debate about how parliament could prevent a no-deal exit. Supporters of what they like to call a clean break or WTO Brexit were excited by an analysis by Maddy Thimont Jack of the Institute for Government that suggested it couldn’t be stopped.

This is a good example of how people see what they want to see. The article makes the point that it would be hard for Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin to repeat their constitutional innovation of legislating from the backbenches to require a prime minister to seek an extension to the Brexit timetable.

That device needs the government to table an amendable bill or motion. If the government doesn’t have any legislation it has to get through, the Cooper-Letwin process can’t start.

But the article also makes clear that there is a more drastic option, which is to depose a prime minister by passing a vote of no confidence in the government. It doesn’t go into detail about what could happen next, so let me outline a possible scenario.

If prime minister Johnson were intending to allow our EU membership to expire on 31 October without a deal, he could be removed by six, or 10, or 20 Conservatives voting with Jeremy Corbyn on a motion of no confidence. This would not lead straight away to a general election: under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, the Commons would have 14 days to pass a motion of confidence in an alternative government.

This could be a government of national unity led by, say, David Lidington, Kenneth Clarke or – just for the TV rights – Jo Johnson. The new prime minister would be installed by the Commons for the sole purpose of seeking a further extension of the Article 50 deadline.

It may be objected that Corbyn would never whip his MPs to put a Conservative in power, but if it were the only way to stop a no-deal exit I think he would do it. Not only did Labour’s manifesto say “leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain”, but ousting Boris Johnson feels like a Labour win that could bring a general election nearer.

In any case, the scenario is credible enough to scare Johnson. The choice facing him – or any other no-deal prime minister – would then be to prevent parliament from sitting, allowing the UK to leave by default on 31 October, or to ask for an extension himself.

Again, there has been learned constitutional debate about how prime minister Johnson could prorogue parliament, or refuse to set a date for it to sit, so that MPs would be powerless to stop him taking the country out of the EU without a deal.

These are dangerous waters. I find it hard to believe that it is being seriously suggested that a prime minister should suspend parliamentary democracy to do something as important as this in defiance of a majority in the House of Commons.

Whatever anyone’s doubts about Boris Johnson’s qualities as a potential prime minister, I do not believe he would try to subvert the will of parliament.

No: he will find himself on the same treadmill of unrealistic promises as Theresa May. He will try and fail to renegotiate the deal. The DUP will remain opposed. The Tory party will become increasingly wedded to an outcome that cannot be delivered.

He won’t be able to call a general election, because Tory MPs, fearful of losing their seats, won’t let him. In the end, he may be driven to a referendum, but even then the Commons could refuse to allow a no-deal exit as one of the options on the ballot paper.

It is a good thing Johnson believes that by sheer force of personality he can change reality, because it seems all roads ahead are blocked, not just for him but for any other possible Tory prime minister.

greybeard

26th May 2019, 22:49

News
Philip Hammond says he could join revolt to topple prime minister trying to force through a no-deal Brexit
The Independent Rob Merrick,The Independent

Philip Hammond has warned that MPs will topple any new Tory prime minister trying to force through a no-deal Brexit – and sensationally threatened to join the revolt himself.

The chancellor refused – three times – to rule out joining the no-confidence vote that Labour has vowed to table if a hardline Brexiteer succeeds Theresa May.

Mr Hammond said any new leader trying to “push through a no-deal exit on 31 October” would immediately face the prospect of having to “leave office”.

“It would be very difficult for the prime minister who adopted no-deal as a policy to retain the confidence of the House of Commons,” he said – just minutes after Dominic Raab made that exact threat.

Asked if he would support a no-confidence motion, Mr Hammond told the BBC’s Andrew Marr it was “hypothetical”, pointing out he had never voted against his party in 22 years.

But he added: “I don’t want to start now having to contemplate such a course of action.”

The warning follows Boris Johnson’s threat to carry out a crash-out Brexit in the autumn in October, if necessary, which rival Tory candidates have quickly copied.

The chancellor dismissed their claims of trying to renegotiate a better deal before than as “a figleaf”, pointing out there would be no time, even if the EU was willing.

“The EU will not renegotiate the withdrawal agreement – I’m quite clear about that. They wouldn’t be able to because of their own political fragility,” he said.

Mr Hammond added: “In fact, the negotiation is a figleaf to do what is in fact a policy of leaving on no-deal terms.”

And he warned: “A prime minister who ignores parliament cannot expect to survive very long.”

The chancellor declined to say which of the eight candidates now running to be Tory leader he would back. Others are expected to join the race.

He said he wanted to hear their plans “to win a general election against Corbyn, their plans for the future”.

On a no-confidence vote, he warned it would be “a dangerous strategy” to be “boxed in with commitments you find it very difficult to deliver on”.

Asked again if he could vote against the government on such a motion, the Chancellor said: “It would challenge not just me, but many of our colleagues, and I hope we will never get to that position.”

Earlier, Mr Raab, warned MPs would be unable to stop him carrying out a crash-out Brexit if he wins the Tory leadership race, vowing to be “resolute”.

The former Brexit secretary ruled out a further Article 50 delay, vowing: “I will not ask for an extension.”

And he added: “It’s very difficult for parliament now to legislate against a no-deal, or in favour of a further extension, unless a resolute prime minister is willing to acquiesce in that – and I would not.

===============================================================

Watching the results.
The combined votes, so far, for all remain parties, is greater then the overall leave vote
However the Brexit Party will have the most MEP's

Chris

greybeard

27th May 2019, 10:03

EU elections: Tories and Labour suffer as Brexit Party triumphs
Sky News Alan McGuinness, political reporter,Sky News

The Conservatives and Labour have fallen victim to a Brexit backlash from voters in the European elections, with the Brexit Party coasting to victory.

And it also proved to be a night of resurgence for the Liberal Democrats.

Five years ago they had just one MEP, now they are celebrating their best-ever performance in a European election.

Almost three years on from the EU referendum, the results from an election made necessary by the delay to Britain's exit show that the country remains deeply divided on the issue.

Nigel Farage's party, which was formed just six weeks ago, won 10 of the UK's 11 regions, gaining 28 seats and more than 30% of the vote. Only Scotland and Northern Ireland are yet to fully declare. The Brexit Party is projected to also win a seat in Scotland, taking its total in the UK to 29.

The Lib Dems finished second in England and Wales after winning 15 seats.

Labour won 10 (down from 20 in 2014), the Greens had seven (up from three in 2014) and the Conservatives slumped to just three (compared with 19 last time).

After topping the polls under the leadership of Mr Farage five years ago, UKIP lost all 23 of its MEPs and saw its share of the vote drop by more than 25%.

The two main political parties suffered as voters split between the clear alternatives offered by Mr Farage and the pro-EU Lib Dems.

:: Conservatives and Labour could move to greater Brexit extremes following EU elections

Turnout was 36.7%, up 1.8% from 2014.

On a disastrous night for the Tories, the party finished fifth and is on course for its worst ever national election share once all the results have been announced.

The abject performance is likely to spark further internal debate about the party's future direction and handling of Brexit.

For Labour, the party's poor showing has already reignited debate about its policy on a second referendum.

:: God-like rock star or pantomime villain: Farage's undisputed showbiz appeal

By contrast, a clearly delighted Mr Farage said a "massive message" had been sent to Westminster.

"Never before in British politics has a new party launched just six weeks ago topped the polls in a national election," he said.

"The reason of course is very obvious: we voted to leave in a referendum, we were supposed to do so on March 29 and we haven't.

"There's a huge message here, massive message here - the Labour and Conservative parties could learn a big lesson from tonight - though I don't suppose that they actually will."

In a message to the established parties, the freshly re-elected MEP for the South East added: "If we don't leave on October 31 then the scores you have seen for the Brexit Party today will be repeated in a general election, and we are getting ready for it."

The party's uncompromising message on Brexit - that Britain should be prepared to walk away with no deal rather than agree to a bad one - captured a large section of public opinion.

But the Remain-backing Liberal Democrats enjoyed a revival, winning 15 seats and over 20% of the vote.

Outgoing leader Sir Vince Cable said a "clear, honest, unambiguous message" was behind its success, which saw the party win London ahead of Labour.

"We have shown ourselves to be the strongest Remain force in British politics," he declared.

"We will always stand up for the people who have put their faith in us, taking this mandate forward to campaign harder than ever to stop Brexit."

And there was a strong showing from the Greens, who built on their best-ever performance in the recent local elections.

The party now has seven MEPs and registered 12.5% of the vote to finish fourth.

Although the result was widely expected, the Brexit Party's dominance could have repercussions beyond these elections.

The Tory vote collapsed, with the party polling under 10%.

Theresa May has already promised to step aside and make way for a new prime minister in the summer, meaning what happens next with Brexit will be in the hands of her successor.

A key fault-line in the contest is whether or not a no deal Brexit is a viable option.

The Brexit Party's victory could harden the resolve of no deal advocates like Boris Johnson, Andrea Leadsom and Dominic Raab to leave one way or the other at the end of October - the new Brexit deadline.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the results underlined the fact that the Tories were "disintegrating and unable to govern".

With Westminster still deadlocked, he said "this issue will have to go back to the people, whether through a general election or a public vote".

However, the party also had a difficult night.

Labour saw its share of the vote drop by more than 10%. It now has 10 MEPs, compared with 18 in the last EU elections in 2014.

A number of specific results will also set alarm bells ringing, like failing to win London and finishing third in Wales, the latter an unprecedented occurrence.

Labour's official policy is to keep open the option of campaigning for a second referendum, with another public vote not its first option at the moment.

But frontbencher Emily Thornberry told Sky News the stance was not "sufficiently clear" and that should be a "lesson we need to learn tonight".

Re-elected MEP Seb Dance said: "The penny must drop. We owe it to our values and the communities we represent to be honest about what Brexit is, the harm it will do to our countries and to give people the chance to stop it."

Mr Corbyn hinted that the party could shift its position, saying: "Over the coming days we will have conversations across our party and movement, and reflect on these results on both sides of the Brexit divide."

Change UK failed to make a breakthrough in its electoral debut, not registering a single MEP and only getting 3.4% of the vote.

UKIP leader Gerard Batten lost his seat in London, which could lead to questions about his future in the job.

Although the Brexit Party emerged victorious, the results suggest the country is split on Brexit.

If you were to add up the votes of all of the parties that firmly back Remain (the Liberal Democrats, Change UK, the Greens and Plaid Cymru) you would get 38%.

The total of the no-deal supporting parties (Brexit Party and UKIP) is 37%.

Intriguingly, if you were to put Labour in the Remain column, this would put it on 53%, compared to 46% on the Leave side if you included the Tory vote share.

"Remain parties 40.4%
Hard Brexit Brexit parties 34.9%"

Jayke

27th May 2019, 11:47

Although the Brexit Party emerged victorious, the results suggest the country is split on Brexit.

If you were to add up the votes of all of the parties that firmly back Remain (the Liberal Democrats, Change UK, the Greens and Plaid Cymru) you would get 38%.

The total of the no-deal supporting parties (Brexit Party and UKIP) is 37%.

Intriguingly, if you were to put Labour in the Remain column, this would put it on 53%, compared to 46% on the Leave side if you included the Tory vote share.

"Remain parties 40.4%
Hard Brexit Brexit parties 34.9%"

Another one flew over the cuckoos nest!

You’ve got to admire the logic of the loony left! These are the people who relish in the ‘first past the post (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting)’ system of democracy when it suits them i.e. when it keeps the Tory globalonies or labour comrades in power, but when it goes against them, it’s time for the mental gymnastics, “if we add up all the votes of the losing parties, and make a blind assumption that they’re all pro-EU, then we can say we’ve really won”:crazy:

If we use their own logic, and assume the 63.3% of the voting population who didn’t bother voting, chose not to—because we should’ve left the EU already—intriguingly, the true results reveal only 40% of 36.7% of the population voted to stay in the EU, which means a measly 14.68% of the population are vehemently pro-EU. That’s not even 1 in 5! How many elections do these idiots need to lose before their bubbles finally burst?

To be fair, the same logic would mean only 1 in 5 are vehemently anti-EU, leaving 3 in 5 apathetic either way. Is this a sign we’re in the dwapara Yuga? A time of 50% virtue, where the Devas and Asura’s are in a perpetual tug of war over the central island.

https://www.indiadivine.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/soma-10.jpg

greybeard

27th May 2019, 14:01

Statistics statistics = economical with the truth = downright lies.
Oh well--whats new?

Chris

Hervé

27th May 2019, 14:15

A bit about some of the intrigues going on in the background:

Brexit is All About Making Israel Greater (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=188891)

By Gilad Atzmon (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?author=109)
on May 26, 2019

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Brexit-making-Israel-Greater.jpg (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Brexit-making-Israel-Greater.jpg)

Britain is in a state of political turmoil. The government and the main opposition party have both lost their way and, together, they have completely lost the trust of the people. In the last few weeks we have witnessed a landslide exodus from both the Tory and Labour parties to the slightly more rational, principled and patriotic alternatives: the truly conservative wandered to the Brexit Party and the remainers, who previously voted Labour, migrated to the more humane Liberal Democrats.

Brits are critically divided over Brexit. It is fair to say that most do not fully grasp what Brexit is anymore. They were deliberately not informed of the political discussion over Brexit and what it would mean for the future. Brits feel betrayed by the political class and in truth, they have been subjected to gross and treacherous treatment by their politicians and media. Brits are not aware of the centrality of Israel and its interests that is at the core of the Brexit debate.

In February, I published a translation of a Ynet article (https://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2019/2/3/israel-uk-and-brexit) which reported that Israel had located itself as post-Brexit Britain’s gateway to the world:
“Once out of the EU, Britain will have to sign separate trade agreements with each state, and Israel will be the first,” Ynet wrote.
Just to remove any confusion, it added
“Israel has become Britain’s strategic ally.”
And of course,
“the British government totally disregard the boycott campaign against Israel. On a political level, they boycotted the boycott.”
Britain under Theresa May has been reduced into a colony of Israel’s. Brits have become increasingly aware that 80% of their Tory MPs are members of the Conservative Friends of Israel, which is a foreign pressure group dedicated to the interests of another state.

Those who have been puzzled by the insane institutional Israel lobby campaign against Corbyn and the Labour party (BOD (https://www.bod.org.uk/statement-following-board-of-deputies-and-jewish-leadership-council-meeting-with-jeremy-corbyn/), Jewish Chronicle (https://www.thejc.com/comment/analysis/corbyn-threat-is-much-greater-than-far-right-1.479120), CAA (https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corbyn-is-an-antisemite-and-the-labour-party-must-act), etc.) can now figure out what the motivation behind it was: Corbyn in 10 Downing Street might well interfere with Israel’s plans for post-Brexit Britain.

The truth is starting to unveil itself. Theresa May, a staunch Zionist, has been working tirelessly to bring about a Brexit ‘deal.’ The Ynet article suggests that such a deal could work for Israel. Brexit enthusiasts smelled a rat, they could see that May’s Brexit offering didn’t fit with what they had in mind. But they couldn’t see the full picture since the prominence of Israel in post-Brexit plans was never discussed in the British press.

In September, 2018 Barry Grossman, the Tel Aviv British embassy’s Director of International Trade, used the Ynet platform (https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5102325,00.html) to explain to Israelis why Brexit is good for Israel.
“Israel and Israelis can reap huge benefits from Brexit,” Grossman wrote.

“Since the Brexit referendum, the British government has declared that Israel is one of its priority markets. The UK is already Israel’s second largest trading partner in the world, and annual trade between the two countries is worth well over $7 billion.”
No one in the British media cared to delve into the significance of Israeli-British relations to Brexit. The topic has never been mentioned in the British national media.

But remainers are in no better position. They are also clueless about the actual corrosive elements that divide their Kingdom and pull it into chaos. Corbyn and his dysfunctional party did nothing to clarify the situation. How is it possible that no one in the Labour Party has been brave enough to touch upon the centrality of Israel in the current Brexit debate?

How is it that, despite the revelation in Israel’s biggest news outlet that Brexit was designed to make Israel great again, not one brave Labour MP, including the so-called ‘leader,’ could say so out loud? The answer is obvious: like the Conservative party, Labour is an occupied zone. It is dominated by fear of the Israel lobby, Jewish pressure groups and the compromised and Zionised British media.

This alone is devastating, but unfortunately, the centrality of Israel in the current Brexit crisis goes much deeper.

Though it is clear to most Brits that Brexit exposes a clear rift between an emerging nationalist ideology and progressive philosophy: not many realise that both contemporary nationalism and progressive philosophy are deeply inspired by two rival Jewish political schools of thought.

For Right-wing agitators, the Alt Right (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-nation-state-law-backed-by-white-nationalist-richard-spencer-1.6295314), anti-Muslims (https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190215-far-right-tommy-robinson-declares-himself-a-zionist-in-leaked-video/) and anti-immigration activists, Israel and its current prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, have become a major source of inspiration. Similarly, it is Jewish progressive ideology (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ldT3YL2Kw) that arouses pro-immigration campaigners (https://www.hias.org/), open-borders (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/255749) enthusiasts and multi culturalists (https://www.firstthings.com/article/1996/12/002-jews-in-multicultural-america) globally and especially in the UK and USA.

It is the pervasiveness of Jewish ideologies within both Right-wing nationalist and New Left discourses that sustains the dominance of the Israel lobby and Jewish pressure groups within British political parties, media and academia.

My study of Jewish ID politics suggests that as in America, Britain isn’t just influenced by one Jewish lobby or another, rather the entire British political, cultural and spiritual spectrum has been reduced into an internal Jewish debate. Brits struggle to see it because their media and academia work tirelessly to conceal this development. I guess that some must believe that it is safer (for reason to do with public safety and community relations) to keep nations in the dark.

Tommy Robinson, who managed to excite and mobilise thousands of Brits in the run-up to the European Parliament election by spreading an anti-Islam message, is an ardent Zionist who supports Israel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCcF3WyZPVo) and is openly supported by pro-Israel right-wing elements (https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-are-us-pro-israel-groups-boosting-a-far-right-anti-muslim-uk-extremist/) and members of the British Jewish community (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/263546). The British media is hostile to Robinson and never misses any opportunity to paint him as a vile racist, but his connections with the Jewish State are kept hidden from the public.

However, Robinson is just an example. The many Brits who support a hard Brexit are inspired by the desire to reinstate rootedness, to close borders, to revive past British glory. It is inspired by Netanyahu’s policies. Like Donald Trump’s unoriginal promise to erect a wall on the Mexican border, many Brits would like to see their kingdom protected by an Israeli-style anti-migrant barrier.

In my recent book, Being in Time – A Post-Political Manifesto (https://www.gilad.co.uk/being-in-time), I stress that while the old, good Left promised to unite us in a fight against capitalism, regardless of our gender, religion, skin colour or ethnicity, it was the New Left that taught us to speak ‘as a’: as a Jew, as Gay, as Black, and so on. Instead of being one people united in the struggle for justice and equality, within the post-political realm the so-called ‘left’ is pushing us toward endless identity battles. This has practically managed to turn societies into the twelve tribes of Israel. The Identitarian revolution was inspired by a few Jewish ideological and philosophical schools including, most importantly, the Frankfurt School. It is actually Jewish Identitarian philosophy and the success of Jewish Identitarianism that inspires most, if not all, contemporary Identitarian politics. It is not surprising that it also motivates the contemporary Labour party and dominates the US Democratic Party.

It has been established that a chief funder of the Identitarian revolution is financier George Soros and his Open Society Foundations (https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/). Soros may genuinely believe in the Identitarian future: It is cosmopolitan, it is global, it defies borders and states, but far more significantly, it also functions to divert attention from Wall Street, the City of London and capitalist crimes: as long as Identitarians fight each other, no one bothers to fight Wall Street and corporate tyranny. Soros didn’t invent this strategy. It has long been named ‘divide and conquer.’

British people certainly remember that it was Soros who used the pages of The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/29/george-soros-drastic-action-needed-for-eurozone-to-survive) to warn Brits of the inevitable implications of Brexit. They may find themselves wondering why a Hungarian-American globalist financier interfered in their national affairs. Brits may have been puzzled when the same Guardian castigated Nigel Farage as an ‘anti-Semite’ for referring to Soros as “the biggest danger to the Western World.” (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/12/farage-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-themes-to-criticise-soros) But much more shocking is that Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, known for his blunt opposition to banking and capitalism, endorsed a video that attributed ‘antisemitism’ to critics of Soros (https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1101541262392475648).

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/868124921402150912/V0SkMhCD_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn) Jeremy Corbyn ✔ @jeremycorbyn
(https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn)
Really important video which spells out the vile and destructive nature of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1101541262392475648

2 (https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1101541262392475648)7:54 PM - Mar 1, 2019 (https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1101541262392475648)
The above shows the depth of the spiritual, cultural and ideological influence of Jewish politics in Britain and in Brexit in particular. While Israel is the prototype of a nationalist and patriotic system for Brexiters, the remainers who support globalisation, immigration and multiculturalism are emulating the Jewish Diaspora’s rival progressive position. These two contradictory Jewish schools of thought are deeply entrenched within each of the two opposing ideologies tearing Britain apart.

Soon Brits will have to choose whether they prefer to be nationalists and xenophobes like the Israelis (https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2014/01/plight-african-migrants-israel-201411081017590510.html) or as cosmopolitan, multicultural and assimilated as the Jewish progressive Diaspora. Or Britain could choose a third route. The Kingdom can liberate itself by looking inward and deciding what is it about Britain, about its history, culture and heritage that they like and want to reinstate.

Gilad Atzmon (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?author=109)
Gilad Atzmon, a former Israeli soldier now a writer and an award winning Jazz musician resident in London, where he lives in virtual exile

greybeard

27th May 2019, 14:20

Anti-Brexit parties ‘claim biggest share of vote despite Brexit Party surge’
PA Ready News UK By Jennifer McKiernan, Press Association Political Correspondent,PA Ready News UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/anti-brexit-parties-claim-biggest-131812611.html

( there is more on the link)

Anti-Brexit parties won the biggest share of the European vote, despite the Brexit Party’s surge, campaigners have claimed.

People’s Vote campaigners highlighted how the five parties who they said campaigned explicitly against Brexit and for a People’s Vote – the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP, Change UK and Plaid Cymru – won 40% of the vote, compared to 35% for the Brexit Party and Ukip.

Adding in Labour, which gave qualified support for another referendum, takes the anti-Brexit side to 56% and counting Conservative votes on the pro-Brexit side gives 44%.

Pollster Professor John Curtice said things were not quite so clear cut, although voters were polarised and had clearly rejected the attempted compromises of Labour and the Conservatives.

Speaking to the BBC, he said: “Some want to add the numbers up to say that actually rather more people voted for pro-referendum parties than no-deal parties, therefore this was a mandate for a second referendum.

“Well, we can argue about the extent to which the SNP’s vote is actually a Remain vote – it is predominantly but not wholly – and if you take them out actually it’s 35:35.

“But in any event, whether it’s 35 or 40, it’s still less than 50%, so I think the honest truth is that neither side can claim on the basis of these results that voters are sending clear signals.”

However, Jo Swinson, Liberal Democrat deputy leader and People’s Vote supporter, claimed the results breakdown showed there was no mandate for a no-deal Brexit.

She said: “The real story from last night’s results is the huge surge in support for the Lib Dems and other strongly pro-People’s Vote parties, who look set to win a larger share of the vote than parties backing a no-deal Brexit.

“There is no majority in either the country or in Parliament for a crashing-out of the EU with a no-deal Brexit.

“Two-thirds of people who voted in this election rejected Nigel Farage’s terrifying vision for our country.

“There was no mandate for this form of Brexit in the 2016 referendum – when it was scarcely discussed – and it is fanciful to pretend such a mandate exists now.”

Jayke

27th May 2019, 16:07

She said: “The real story from last night’s results is the huge surge in support for the Lib Dems and other strongly pro-People’s Vote parties, who look set to win a larger share of the vote than parties backing a no-deal Brexit.

“There is no majority in either the country or in Parliament for a crashing-out of the EU with a no-deal Brexit.

“Two-thirds of people who voted in this election rejected Nigel Farage’s terrifying vision for our country.

“There was no mandate for this form of Brexit in the 2016 referendum – when it was scarcely discussed – and it is fanciful to pretend such a mandate exists now.”

If statistics = damn lies. Why post more articles that fudge the statistics?

The real story of the Euro results is that if the same percentages of voting takes place in the next general election—under a first past the post system—the breakdown of parliamentary seats in the commons would look like this:

Conservative: 0 seats
Labour: 93 seats
Lib: 31 seats
Green: 1 seat
SNP: 56 seats
Plaid: 5 seats
Brexit: 446 seats
Brexit majority 242!

To break last nights results down by area. You can see in the attached thumbnail below, it’s mostly just London propping up the Lib Dem’s. The rest of the country is a huge Brexit majority. This is why the next Conservative leader is going to have to strongly consider No Deal Brexit (which is the Brexit most Leavers voted for in the 2016 referendum).

If these EU results transfer over to the next general elections, the anti-Brexit parties will suffer a devastating loss of seats.

Not that I trust the Brexit Party anymore than the other establishment top picks. Farage’s Brexit Party is funded by the same Zionist mega-donor — Robert Mercer — who funded Trumps presidential bid. There’s definitely strong Israeli influence behind the scenes. How many different factions of Isralies are there?

Steven M Collins has a very interesting book series that helps to elucidate the Israeli connections, especially the notion of the Anglo-Saxon Israelites, that migrated out of Jerusalem into the Black Sea region and became the Sakae=Scythians=Saxons. This is a really well researched, evidence based book series, which sheds light on not only politics today, but the hidden history of great civilisations that have been obscured from our history books. Leading to much confusion and mystery in today’s world.The Lost Ten Tribes of Israel (https://stevenmcollins.com).