Should you pay for spiritual services?

[music]

In the realms of spiritual and higher bodily awareness, where these stray outside the remit of the ‘norm’, there is an undercurrent of thought whereby people seeking help and knowledge feel that those who hold it should give it freely if they are so spiritual. In an ideal world, this would indeed be the case. The problem is that those who seek and are most vocal in their opposition about payment for services often have spent their lives living the normal life of work, mortgage, investment and security, and so are generally comfortably placed. Those who have spent a lifetime seeking knowledge from between the cracks of mainstream society have invested themselves in that realm, and so many are not home owners, they hold no shares or investments, they have no retirement funds, and live fundamentally hand to mouth, relying on the universe to provide for them, such is their faith in the doing and the seeking of all that is good. Food for thought, that is all.

[Daozen]

If prices are reasonable, it's OK. If prices are inflated, it's not. Who can decide what a fair price is? Hard to say...

[music]

If prices are reasonable, it's OK. If prices are inflated, it's not. Who can decide what a fair price is? Hard to say...

If the price is fair to the buyer, they will buy. We all set a value on the things we seek. Perhaps a story will help?

Many years ago I ran a reflexology practice in the UK. I had no price, I merely asked people to pay what they could comfortably afford. That could be zero or infinite. I also took barter. What I found was that those who were honest in the appraisal of their means (whether they paid me 0 or 100 pounds) achieved better and more rapid health outcomes than those who gave less than they could comfortably afford. In placing no value upon my services, they were unconsciously devaluing their selves, and their own health. Food for thought there too :D

[Matthew]

Payment is fair so why not. But spiritual knowledge and personal awakening can be dizzying, coupled with disillusionment of material things.. so there is opportunity for abuse.

[ElfeMya]

There is always opportunity for abuse, it is not restricted to the spiritual services, is it ? More the manifestation of people's choices...
I love your point of view, Music !
fruity hugs everyone !

[Violet]

I've seen local prices range anywhere between 50 and 90 EUR per hour. Also take into account that you may not get all things done in just one hour.

If VAT-registered then of course prices must be set, as this is a costly status to maintain. If it's a hobby, you can choose, free or not, or intermittently. The difference here is that when you charge a fee you have much more liberty to be reasonable in your pricing, as compared to VAT-actives.

[PurpleLama]

The enlightened teacher may give the lie to his preaching of detachment to material things by charging a hefty fee for his advice, whereas if a root doctor presented his services for free then something would certainly be amiss.

[ulli]

Efforts to set a standard here would be doomed to fail.
There are as many possibilities here as there are levels of consciousness.
From "Here is my price- take it or leave it!" to "Everything is negociable".

Plus, most people who have devoted their lives to share their spiritual knowledge often do so freely, in many different ways.
But if someone wants to pin them down to a one-on-one session, requiring 100% attention, requiring that they drop everything else they might be doing, and give their time exclusively, and do all that for free, then they might even be in need a few shocks to shake them out of their selfishness.
Plus I doubt if they would even benefit from such a session.

The only good I can see coming from such a scenario is that the spiritual teacher gets the lesson of standing their ground.

[Deega]

In the realms of spiritual and higher bodily awareness, where these stray outside the remit of the ‘norm’, there is an undercurrent of thought whereby people seeking help and knowledge feel that those who hold it should give it freely if they are so spiritual. In an ideal world, this would indeed be the case. The problem is that those who seek and are most vocal in their opposition about payment for services often have spent their lives living the normal life of work, mortgage, investment and security, and so are generally comfortably placed. Those who have spent a lifetime seeking knowledge from between the cracks of mainstream society have invested themselves in that realm, and so many are not home owners, they hold no shares or investments, they have no retirement funds, and live fundamentally hand to mouth, relying on the universe to provide for them, such is their faith in the doing and the seeking of all that is good. Food for thought, that is all.


Hmm!, we live in a society where everyone was programmed such that we have to work for our existence.

Now people who work to get knowledge, learning, experience in the spiritual world, getting some kind of degree (proficient in spiritual field), and become notable respected caregiver should be paid for services they tend unto people, only my opinion.

As we all know, the spiritual trained person has to live, incur expenses living, incur expenses with profession, it's only natural to be paid for services.

When the services are questionable, then, one don't have to seek them!

[Kryztian]

One pays for the service, the ritual, the formalities, the space, the use of the accoutrements. All those things cost money to the person rendering the service and help them maintain their existence.

The spiritual part is absolutely free of charge. Money gets you through the front door, but the spiritual part is given to you if you are open to it. It is a gift, not from the person conducting the event, but from the mysterious source behind it.

[Ahnung-quay]

If going to a Native American for spiritual services or ceremony, if that person is really walking the Red Road, all that they will expect is a tobacco offering. By all means, donate money, food, gas, etc. This is a free will offering and the amount is decided by the donor.

[Agape]

It's a problem I once started to sort ( 23 years ago ) and never sorted it yet . In old Indian or Buddhist traditions where most teachers were monks after all,
the rule once was never to accept money.
Not even to touch money or gold or anything too 'precious' in the eyes of the world. So my teachers taught me .
It's barely possible nowadays even for monks 'not to touch money' unless your monastery and people take care of you and then you'd have to be prevented from travelling abroad too because of all the documents ( and money ) it entails.

Back here and when I started to teach I tried to maintain everything free , open, low cost and donation based .
There were times we had to pay for place rentals and times the place was shared and sponsored and most of private sessions were run in my or peoples homes .

Then I had to do something for money which turned to be either being hired by someone to lecture , translating scriptures and doing astrology readings for those who were so oriented but out of that realm,
I'd not know for what to charge . I was too young to feel tired and loved people. And staying with mum I did not have to worry about living so I did not care.

I refused advertising myself too , thinking it's un-spiritual , looking back nowadays looks indeed like we had good times and fun

The older I'm I understand that if I ever meant to live within the secular society I'd have to find fitting 'cover job' and way around this .


[ looks to the cloudy sky and grins sheepishly :sun:]

[Sean]

Lightworkers have to pay rent too. I don't see the issue with charging a reasonable fee for services rendered, just like physicians do(although their charges tend to be UN-reasonable). INTENT is the key. nothing unholy or unspiritual about money, unless you're ripping people off.

[Zampano]

From the spiritual view...a teacher/guru/enlightened beeing can always point to the "One" thing in a myriad of ways. In Satsang, NonDuality Talks, Guided Meditation, whatever.
I mean, basically, there is not a lot of training needed for that-just to find the right exercise and follow it to the end. Everytime.
If you are looking for the right exercise or if you feel that you are stuck somewhere-go see a teacher.
Like a schoolboy who failed at math-he will see a coach or a tutor and pay for it. So for me, it seems legit to pay a reasonable price.

When it comes to Psychic Healing/Astrology/Reiki, there should be at least a fixed price, because they undergo some training, seminars, courses, etc
Which costs money. Also a quiet room, equipement when needed, taxes, time, and so on.

But everything should be negotionable-depending on the individuals circumstances. I do it with barter. I bring fresh fruits, vegetables, eggs, cooked meal or whatever is in my garden. Some of them really really apreciate it. That would be the optimum from my point of view.

Unfortunately we live in a society, where everything is measured with money and it also has the "more money, more in return" effect/thinking.
Do not forget: "What costs nothing is worth nothing" is the state of mind :-(

[TrumanCash]

If going to a Native American for spiritual services or ceremony, if that person is really walking the Red Road, all that they will expect is a tobacco offering....

Actually, this depends upon the particular tribe/nation. For example, the Niimiipuu (aka Nez Perce) condemn any tribal member who sells herbs for medicine or spiritual purposes--even people with no tribal affiliation. In one case of which I am personally aware they tried to kick a man out of the tribe for selling herbs.

However, traditionally, the Mide'wiwin (spiritual healers) of the Anishinabe actually required payment from students/initiates. Experienced spiritual healing practitioners charged for their services.

[Note: the Anishinabe were the largest nation that the Europeans encountered on the eastern shores of Turtle Island (now called North and South America). They had a government that connected many tribes similar to a national government, written language, religion, etc, before the European invasion. Check out the 7th Fire Prophecy (http://www.oneprayer.org/Seven_Fires_Prophecy.html). Detailed info about the Mide'wiwin here (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/19368?msg=welcome_stranger#midewiwin). Today the Ojibwe is the largest tribe remaining.]

[BongoBob]

Borrowed from The Wanderling's Site (http://the-wanderling.com/guides.html):


In America there is a tendency to make a commodity out of anything, even spirituality. Not only is making salvation a marketable item absurd ("Sorry, you don't qualify for the highest, blissful heaven." - "Why not?" - "You forgot to pay last month's subscription dues for soul discourses"), but it allows for a number of unscrupulous individuals to make huge sums of money off naive seekers.

Although money is necessary to keep movements functioning (the publishing of books, etc.), there is a distinct line between obligatory payments -- even if they are disguised as "love offerings," and unsolicited donations; the latter has justifiable reasons behind it, whereas the former makes religion a business enterprise, with a very lucrative tax shelter.



"Real Masters never charge for their services, nor do they accept payment in any form or any sort of material benefits for their instructions. This is a universal law among Masters, and yet it is an amazing fact that thousands of eager seekers in America and elsewhere, go on paying large sums of money for "spiritual instruction.". Masters are always self-sustaining. They are never supported by their students or by public charity."

---- Julian P. Johnson, The Path of the Masters (1939) ----


"A Wise One like me should not charge for her services....The one who charges is a liar. The wise one is born to cure, not to do business with her knowledge."

---- Maria Sabina, Curandera, Shaman ----


"Real Enlightenment definitely is not on sale at the corner store, it doesn't contain preservatives, and isn't wrapped in plastic. Absolute surrender to God, or the Universe, is the greatest gift, the "pearl of great price," and it will never be cheap. That is why one should question the ersatz gems that pseudo-spiritualists so readily sell in their fancy packages. If one wants the real thing, one must learn about counterfeits; otherwise, one is showing off a rhinestone to God, convinced it is the Hope Diamond."

---- Mariana Caplan, Halfway Up the Mountain (1999) ----






Of course, this all seems to be put in the wayside as :cash::cash::cash: has come to be the presiding notion of control, and few strive to find a way to live without it anymore.

This message also tends to sway more towards self-enlightenment than it does metaphysical services such as Reiki, astrology readings, and so on, and may not be entirely related to your query in that regard.

[Ahnung-quay]

Yes, Truman you are correct. I guess I was thinking individual practioner. The Mide society is different. They do even base advancement within their ranks on payment sometimes.
I should also mention that I meant North American natives. S out American shamans seem to charge for services more ofteN charge money.

[Chris Gilbert]

Energy is infinite, but one's time is not. Assuming that you don't live in a mutually supportive tribal structure that has other exchanges in lieu of the financial one, you have every right to charge for your linear, limited TIME, especially if you are doing healing work full time during normal working hours. I do energy work focused on the meridians from TCM combined with tuina massage techniques, and charge the usual rate for a massage. Some day humans will no longer use money (assuming we don't destroy ourselves first) but for now this is how energy exchanges occur in most places.

Ethics do enter into the picture in terms of how much you charge, and other issues. Someone who trained in the same lineage I practice started raising their prices too much and going only for the highest bidder. The result...Heaven removed their healing ability. A general rule of thumb I go by is that your prices should be within the range of other practitioners in a given geographic radius, and should be within range of what people can spend every couple months for health maintenance with their discretionary income if they are willing to forego other indulgences like bars, etc.

[6pounder]

i didnt read all the posts but ill say this. if you have a talent and you are looking for "easy way" to earn your living then you choose to make it as a job and you charge money from people spiritual or not. but if you understand the nature of what spiritual work is and you find it as something that has nothing to do with making living but only as something to fulfill your destiny then you give it to people as part of your mission on earth with no motive to earn anything accept the fulfillment of your destiny. i dont have any special talent that i call spiritual but i do know that i love to fight for the greater good so i do it with out asking for anything back as i feel that it fulfills my destiny. do things out of love not out of need.

[OMG]

No

(Won't let me just say "no" so I needed to write this.)

[ZooLife]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2b/7e/cc/2b7ecc99917522af4d7f9bc4b1001cba.jpg

[Ivanhoe]

I don't ever remember hearing or reading of Jesus or Budda, or any true teacher of the One ever charging for their teachings or healings.
They were serving God (insert your favorite label here).
Does God charge us for his love or his lessons of living this life? I think not, except in the idea that as we receive so shall we give, or do onto others as you would have them do unto you.
Mankind seems to be the only creature that puts a monetary price on everything.

[ghostrider]

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks... if they are talking money ovr spirit, it tells you all you need to know...

[LindyLou22]

If you receive any services, spiritual or otherwise, from a human being living in the physical world, DON'T LOOK FOR REASONS TO STIFF THEM.

Am I shouting? I most certainly am.

I've worked in 2 areas where people expect services for free. First, I was a classical singer. Can't tell you how many people would pay top dollar for their wedding photographer yet propose that I sing their event for free "for the exposure." Politicians were big for that, too. Ironically, the churches always managed to pay a decent wage for my service.

Now I'm a licensed massage therapist whose work relies heavily on having an open heart and using Reiki and ho'oponopono. I consider these far more healing than the actual massage. Luckily, I can charge for the massage, because the real work is something some clients don't even believe in.

In the meantime, Wells Fargo doesn't care how open my heart is, they want their mortgage payment in full and on time. Same for property taxes, monthly office rent, and trips to the grocery store, doctor, and dentist.

Again, don't look for reasons to stiff anyone who does spiritual work on your behalf.

[LindyLou22]

I don't ever remember hearing or reading of Jesus or Budda, or any true teacher of the One ever charging for their teachings or healings.
They were serving God (insert your favorite label here).
Does God charge us for his love or his lessons of living this life? I think not, except in the idea that as we receive so shall we give, or do onto others as you would have them do unto you.
Mankind seems to be the only creature that puts a monetary price on everything.



Absurd. Does God need to charge anyone? When was the last time God received a $5000 property tax bill for his below-median home? As far as Jesus or Buddha, presuming they had no money is equally absurd. Somebody paid for that last supper and all the suppers before it. Unless, of course, they were all miracles.

[ZooLife]

Commerce and Spirit, like oil and vinegar. Shake vigorously and it sure seems they are mixed but when the shaking stops....

[Bluegreen]

Last I heard David Miscavige is living pretty large
:rolleyes:

*

Enough with the jokes already: Yes
And no joke: Caveat Emptor

[Ivanhoe]

So this is what I mean,... I don't say that we shouldn't give in return, but if money is the expected reward then most of us would be excluded from receiving any knowledge whatsoever.
It's clear I touched a nerve, dear, so I will withdraw any more comments from this thread. No reason to be rude or create conflict over this.
Have a nice day.:zip lips::peep::bolt:

[Alpha141]

Great topic and contribution all.

For myself. It is about Energy Exchange. I don't wait for someone to set a value on what they do. I value them first and foremost. Proactively. I have found for healings etc when i came to this perspective. My healings were very very effective for example. As, i contribute via my intent powerfully to my own resolution.

I value the effort someone has gone through in a committed way in the creation of who they are. This is a part for me living a ceremonial life. I see my energy as an investment in them for their wisdom, talent, dedication and what great work they may do for the collective after i move on etc. Not just for me. But, for all they may contribute in a positive way after my involvement. On every level. It might actually be MY effort with this intent energetically attached to my offering that actually contributes to their continued effort from that point. I might be the energy that empowers their will to keep going. When, they are looking to find a reason themselves to keep going.

Being a facilitator is not easy. It is courageous in this reality. When the greater portion of the society are dominated by ego (not preaching to the majority here guys) and have enormous Shadow Self resolution potential resulting in a reluctance to be proactive on Conscious Exploring. Resulting in those who do facilitate getting beaten up a fair bit. For instance. The 'fear' of being ripped off etc can usually be traced to the Egoic defense wanting to not resolve an issue. Potentially that healer being contemplated with some money investment justifies the individual to shut down exploring to keep that issue locked into to you. So, recognising this can be a confirmation etc. Some aren't right for you also. Experience is the key to Wisdom. The key is to develop the 'muscles' to recognise it. The money they may ask is to aid in their own repair to be able to maintain the level to operate as a facilitator also. Obviously there are many levels and more i haven't gone into.

When i choose to input that vibrational intent in valuing everyone for what and who they are. On a deeper level it is only a reflection of my own value of myself. It this affords a fast track for those like motivated, frequency, Service to Other beings out there to find me. I offer them a vibration to find me. By being the change. I am proactive on this to be generous for the combined effort therefore of individuals relative to the resources i have to offer. Thus what i feel committed to aiding in contributing to the shift for the betterment of humanity for us all.

I have posted alot of a good mate Andrew Bartzis's stuff. I did a Money one about a Earth based sentience created in the Money System back in April 2013 from all the Oligarchical Sex Trade money stored in Cypress at the time. All money does is encapsulate human life force. Hence what i suggested relative to Energy Exchange. Mother Earth birthed a life form that which will take over the Energy Exchange for Value system when this present debt based system falls. You won't hear this in the media. It is the reason for the BRICS being created to isolate it in an effort to contain it. Earth knows everything you do. The 'hits' i take from operating in a proactive way are know by her. Known by Mother Earth. I therefore know operating this way empowers her creation. It empowers it's growth.

wSvrSv20c_U

I hope these concepts offer something. Might be a bit challenging to explore for sure. There are rewards for it. The people who find there way to you for me make it worth it. Randomness...Synchronicity etc. Good luck all.

[Agape]

If you receive any services, spiritual or otherwise, from a human being living in the physical world, DON'T LOOK FOR REASONS TO STIFF THEM.

Am I shouting? I most certainly am.

I've worked in 2 areas where people expect services for free. First, I was a classical singer. Can't tell you how many people would pay top dollar for their wedding photographer yet propose that I sing their event for free "for the exposure." Politicians were big for that, too. Ironically, the churches always managed to pay a decent wage for my service.

Now I'm a licensed massage therapist whose work relies heavily on having an open heart and using Reiki and ho'oponopono. I consider these far more healing than the actual massage. Luckily, I can charge for the massage, because the real work is something some clients don't even believe in.

In the meantime, Wells Fargo doesn't care how open my heart is, they want their mortgage payment in full and on time. Same for property taxes, monthly office rent, and trips to the grocery store, doctor, and dentist.

Again, don't look for reasons to stiff anyone who does spiritual work on your behalf.


Hi LindyLou, I think I completely do understand your point of view but 'spirit' and 'spirituality' really is not a 'method' .
It's not about the time and sweat . It's not about expecting rewards . Not about seeking rewards or winning the competition.
Spirituality is one of the least understood and defined things at all times because it's about character and power or will to do good, be good, be compassionate in critical circumstances , for the others.

If your 'spirituality' [ to put it the other way around ] can be switched on n off and payed for , it's not real spirituality .
Yes even among some of the well known 'gurus' many are probably double faced and that ruins peoples ideas about 'spirituality' .
People do think it's something you do in gym ( or church ) twice a week . Something you can 'do' ..

no you can't .

It's about who you are and no one gets payed a lot for who they are ( or very few ) and the rest you have to do anyway or try ,
if you're spiritual you 'bless the pudding' . It's proof enough ...



so no matter what you do , please stay spiritual :inlove:

[Iloveyou]

. . withdraw any more comments from this thread

don't withdraw, please :)


Should I pay for spiritual services? Yes and No.

Yes on the every day level. There's such a wide range of psychics, facilitators, counselors, healers etc., it's a business with usually for the most part clearly defined conditions. Why not pay, I know what I can expect and soon I'll see if it's worth the money.

No, because for true spiritual service there is no price (price!). It cannot be commercialised, it is always for free, it is beyond service/service in return. It can happen in a therapy session, during an encounter with a stranger, in an online community . . cannot be measured in money, in my experience. It is a gift. And it always depends on wether I'm ready to receive it or not.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

For me, it would come down to whether the practitioner sees it as work or not.

[ZooLife]

. . withdraw any more comments from this thread

don't withdraw, please :)


Should I pay for spiritual services? Yes and No.

Yes on the every day level. There's such a wide range of psychics, facilitators, counselors, healers etc., it's a business with usually for the most part clearly defined conditions. Why not pay, I know what I can expect and soon I'll see if it's worth the money.

No, because for true spiritual service there is no price (price!). It cannot be commercialised, it is always for free, it is beyond service/service in return. It can happen in a therapy session, during an encounter with a stranger, in an online community . . cannot be measured in money, in my experience. It is a gift. And it always depends on wether I'm ready to receive it or not.

Spiritual exchange, that is what is happening. When that exchange is co-oped, the effective exchange is lost.

It's like when a musician sells out to a record label for fame and fortune and forgets why they began playing music in the first place.

I get it though, payment for spiritual service as a person seeks a balance between the spiritual and material, it's a precarious position. There is the allure towards the material side of that balance where the authentic spiritual exchange is lost, only to be replace by a shadow of itself.

There is nothing more disappointing, spiritually speaking, then shadow spirituality.