Split thread for various Off-Topic posts from "Our Experience With Simon As a '____________' " [Archive]

Agape

7th July 2016, 09:36

[Mod-edit: This thread was created to gather various off-topic "contributions" (i.e. "Trolling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)") to other "Simon as '_________' " threads. Hervé]

The type of work necessary to rid oneself of this kind of thing once it is attached to you would be a kin to living isolated in a cave like a monk for three or four years.
I commend you Onawah for always looking for the positive in folks, for always looking for the positive in the universe.
The spiritual parasites that feed on Simon are not going to be wished away. They are going to look for a new spin on the same game he has been playing, they are going to create an itch, and Simon is going to try and find a new way to feed it. He is going to keep attempting to pull energy through the cords he has made and he will attempt to cord more.
You don't wish away reptilian abductors.
Agreed . Thanks for all of your post above DNA.

I don't think that even lonely retreat ( cave or peoples homes , aren't too different these days ) would suffice . Only advanced yogis can do that , not 'babies'.
Many people who tried something like that 'on their own' , without full knowledge and strong connection and guidance from their teachers simply went mad.

In order to get rid of any damaging ties , bad ties , spiritual or worldly, you need to build good ties first otherwise it's easy to get lost .

Perhaps some of our ancestors path was easier because they maintained life relationship with their elders and wisdom beings , out of the world as well.
So may be then , 'karma yoga' would have been sufficient.

But even thousand or more years ago and if you look to the old story of Yogi Milerapa who was famous in Tibet for his meditative achievements and severe penance he performed in order to conquer 'evil forces' he himself learned to evoke as powerful magician to revenge injustice to his family ,
to get thoroughly cleansed of all the powerful entities whom he established relationship with , it took years , almost decades of very hard work .
His guru ( Marpa the translator ) ordered him to build various types of houses for him -as a path of selfless service - to the point where Milarepa was hurt and full of sores , like a donkey .. but nothing improved , and yet he never lost faith in his teacher and his goal.
At last and after many years of hard work passed , he was initiated to meditation techniques that coupled with his strong will power could lead to success .
And then he started to have some more positive visions and outlook .. so was sent to meditate alone to remote cave and he wowed to stay there till his ultimate victory over himself and the 'demons'.

It's a long and colourful narrative ( known as Milarepae Namthar in Tibetan, the Biography of Milarepa who later became one of Tibets enlightened masters and poets of all times , known for his supreme accomplishment , total detachment from wordiness and true 'experiencer' ).

https://www.scribd.com/doc/58245984/The-Life-of-Milarepa

It's an iconic story, and recommended reading for everyone at the beginning or the end of their path . Especially for those who think they're dealing with otherworldly entities , magic and are in need of discernment and spiritual protection.

The story itself is also full of ancient wisdom and authentic spiritual instruction and shows how hard it is to work out effects of 'magically accumulated karma' once they affected people around you .

More pertinently and where my own knowledge and experience confirms,
liberating strong influence of either human or non-human entities in your life
is nearly impossible without strong(er) positive and benevolent influence in your life.

There needs to be pure motivation and intent and relationship established to someone who knows more . And those people aren't always nearby or easy to find .
Ultimately , it really means embracing 'just the good' and giving up on everything that carries seeds of evil in it.

Dracos ( and similar ) are not low spirits to be 'cut from' by some form of exorcism .

It's probable that they're actually the ones performing it the best .

You'd better have to establish the tie with your 'noble human self' and such spiritual beings who are based in the highest ethics and truth .
It's easier said than done for most people .

Till then I think there'll always be some 'fight' because people do carry countless controversial influences in them and seeds of those influences
so for any spiritual practitioner, public work can happen to be a hindrance , actually .

It's also known and said repeatedly in the old sourced , authentic spiritual teachings how 'spiritual pride' effectively destroys even the fruits of 'good karma' .
'Spiritual pride' about 'being always right' and 'being useful' can be one of the most difficult to overcome .
It's the greatest deceiver as well. There are many spiritual masters who appear gentle on outside but if you confront them or catch them unprepared you see they're not 'tamed' . They're full of force and easy to provoke anger
or they have desires to grab on, of their own.

But , if your own intents or mind are impure, questioning those of the other more than often ends up in ridicule . Life is the ultimate teacher to show the effects of good and bad on your path,
not people or other-worldly beings.

Good luck :Party:

greybeard

7th July 2016, 11:01

im not quite sure if this belongs here but it may be helpful as an overall picture of abuse at an early age and mind control., split personality etc

Teal Swan, known to many as ‘The Spiritual Catalyst’ or the ‘Giggling Guide’ was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico on June 16th 1984. She was born with a range of extrasensory abilities including clairvoyance, clairsentience, clairaudience and claircognizance (examples?). Despite her young age, Teal is no stranger to extreme adverse circumstances. During her childhood Teal’s parents (who were both Wilderness Rangers), accepted a job in the Wasatch-Cache National Forest of Utah, unaware of the intensely religious climate of the location. Word of Teal’s unusual abilities got out and were not only frowned upon, but were also feared by many in the local religious community. Teal’s abilities attracted the attention of a family acquaintance who unbeknownst to Teal’s family was struggling with dissociative identity disorder and sociopathy.

When Teal was just six years old, the family acquaintance inducted her into a local cult, and Teal was ritualistically and sexually tortured for a period of thirteen years. Teal managed to escape from the cult when she was nineteen and began her process of recovery and transformation. Since her escape, Teal has become an internationally recognized spiritual leader and a powerful new voice in the field of metaphysics. She now travels the world as a spiritual luminary, using her abilities to remind people of the united, energetic nature of this universe and teaching people how to find bliss in the midst of even the most difficult challenges.

In 2012 Teal founded Teal Eye LLC. Along with an accompanying non-profit called Headway Foundation. The aim of both companies is to catalyze positive world change. The companies will achieve this by investing in programs, organizations and products that will revolutionize societal systems in many areas including justice, technology, education, agriculture and health care. Teal’s vision is to enable everyone on earth to live free, joyous and healthy lives and she is determined to make that vision a reality.

Book: The Sculptor in the Sky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3AChOcKKu8

Agape

7th July 2016, 12:00

There is couple of threads devoted to discussion about Teal Swan somewhere on this forum Chris. ( you know ).

I think that there's always a question of compatibility, especially among people who claim some other than purely human origin and influence to their upbringing .
The general trend of most spiritual teachings and methods seems to be one :from individuality to universality , that is 'applicable to everyone'.

But from my experience , we're nowhere that close yet - in reality, that is. More with specific origins and definitions to your-self ,
and we're all born with different level of wisdom too. So in turn ..there's limited number of people whom we can learn from and limited number of people who can benefit .

Simon is actually sought exactly for the non-human connection he has rather than for overcoming abuse . Of course that's something that may change and he will be wiser at the end of the adventure .

Principally , you may be right of course and it's all about overview and knowing the 'ladder' and steps to take 'beyond yourself' .

Hope this all serves to inspire people on their own path rather than becoming dependant on someone elses virtues :o

greybeard

7th July 2016, 12:14

Thanks Agape --I had not heard of Teal until two days ago--I was checking Buddha at the Gas Pump on u tube and saw her there.
I rarely venture out of the spiritual section apart from therapy --sharing--health type of threads
If the video helps some one great--if not it can be ignored.
Obviously im not that aware of Teal's work apart from that interview.

Chris

Agape

7th July 2016, 12:43

I think I've seen two or three iconic threads about Teal Swan around here that again seem to be wrapped in controversial views and experiences ...

( and probably much 'celebrity gossip' as well )

Why Teal Scott/Swan and the Whole Spiritual Movement is Dangerous! (Video) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?75787-Why-Teal-Scott-Swan-and-the-Whole-Spiritual-Movement-is-Dangerous---Video-&highlight=Teal+Swan)

Is Teal Swan a hoaxer? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91137-Is-Teal-Swan-a-hoaxer&p=1078926&highlight=Teal+Swan#post1078926)

I remember watching one or two of Teals videos long ago that had to do with child abuse and thought she's gifted and wise young lady .
But that's I think ...where no harm occurs .
With some people ( I feel ) keeping a safe distance is 'safe option'. Taking a personal step towards somebody always carries some risk ,
they may be great teacher for many people but not for you so there's always some risk of rejection . They may be busy . Or on different path .
Buddha said 'always test the truth' , 'test the method' before believing it.

So I mean, there are tested methods known for thousands of years , it's just that not many people are aware of them and some always try to benefit from rediscovering them and reselling them in new guise.

Wow. One day these times will sound so impossibly old fashioned to someone in future, all with our keyboard struggle ...

:cocktail:

Hervé

7th July 2016, 13:10

This thread was created to gather various off-topic "contributions" (i.e. "Trolling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)") to other "Simon as '_________' " threads.

greybeard

7th July 2016, 13:21

This thread was created to gather various off-topic "contributions" (i.e. "Trolling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)") to other "Simon as '_________' " threads.

Thanks for shifting my posts Herve I did not know, as said, where to put it --I forgot about the split.
Abuse of any kind can create all kinds of mind stuff as comes across in the Teal video.

Chris

Baby Steps

7th July 2016, 13:24

Agape

7th July 2016, 14:38

This thread was created to gather various off-topic "contributions" (i.e. "Trolling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)") to other "Simon as '_________' " threads.

Herve , I can appreciate that English is not your native tongue either but the way you conduct your disciplining here ( of me , to which I have responded privately yesterday ) is disrespectful to me and other members of board.

If you so insist I'm going to rise this issue openly in another thread then and expose the fact that the forum authority decided to evict me ,

by any means and shaming of all of my activity here now continues for days under various 'reasons'.

Saying so I'm also then informing all regular readers and friends who know me better than to believe i'm 'trolling'

that something conspicuous in backgrounds is readying and if they won't find me here today or tomorrow , reasons given for resting of my membership would not be explainable or true ,
from my perspective.

It's becoming personally unacceptable for me to post as almost every post is being singled out , moved or deleted .

Herve does not precisely understand the content or context of my posts, yet he insists on moderating them .

Which itself isn't the core of the trouble. Calling someone TROLL, dear Herve, Bill and others,
is rather serious and unspiritual accusation of wrong doing , and especially wrong intent .

So unless you are wishing to rise your horizon and objectives to discuss this here with me please do retract those shameful comments you've made on mine and other peoples behalf.

Your usage of internet jargon as-it-reads is not appropriate or educated tool of moderator .

I'll go further to say that you're misusing authority granted to you by presumed 'collective' against private individuals.

Lastly , I'd appreciate discussion on the topic rather than 'receiving orders'.

We are not here under your or anyones elses command.

Very sad

Agape

7th July 2016, 14:45

I don't think that even lonely retreat ( cave or peoples homes , aren't too different these days ) would suffice . Only advanced yogis can do that , not 'babies'.

Now I'm scared....
Any advice for the victims?

Baby Steps, I'm sorry but can not answer this under circumstances. The person responsible take my posts from the context where they were written ,
with full meaning, they either act under someones command or just on automatic but they are fully biased against me .

The worst terms are floating in their heads and it's becoming dangerous for me to post here.

So unless this is fixed , I'm scared too.

It's the case of not seeing trees for forest and forest for trees. Acting under level of paranoia and mind control .

It's a pity because I am well meaning being with plenty of experience and my own extensive testimony to the topic,
obviously someone in here hate me just a little bit for something hard to predict.

Thanks for patience though :flower:

Hervé

7th July 2016, 14:55

Agape

7th July 2016, 14:58

Split thread for various Off-Topic posts from "Our Experience With Simon As a '____________' "

Titling , naming a thread as you did above would probably , hardly pass through for any 'regular member' , sorry Herve .
The fact that you are a moderator does not warranty curtsying from me and gives you no right to be angry .

You've singled me out as easy victim to fact that either you can not understand or/and you can not conduct yourself very well ,
or simply, authority, namely spiritual authority has been misused in couple of "Simons' threads already .

That's Bills problem , of all, maintaining authority at all and every cost and employing you to execute his opinion .

Nonetheless and what are you showing to me here is that either 'you can afford to behave whatever ways' for being moderator
or .. that you have some acute , vested interest in the matter you can not substantiate , at least not verbally.

Unlike I'm , I don't think you are evaluating the Simon Parkes topic from any sort of insiders or experiencers view point . I may be wrong though. Why would you go after me of all people who post in remains questionable.

Agape

7th July 2016, 15:07

[...]

Baby Steps, I'm sorry but can not answer this under circumstances. [...]

This is why this thread was created for... to answer to those otherwise off-topic posts with respect to that other thread.

Herve, no sorry, with respect to you, I don't think that you understand the context and how this relates to Simons experience and why the discussion in his thread occurs and why it belongs there.

Hervé

7th July 2016, 15:08

Agape

7th July 2016, 15:13

[...]
Herve , I can appreciate that English is not your native tongue either but the way you conduct your disciplining here ( of me , to which I have responded privately yesterday ) is disrespectful to me and other members of board.
[...]

Eva I strongly suggest that you spend some time meditating on the definitions and meaning of the following:

trolling (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416&viewfull=1#post979416)
off-topic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_topic)

This might help bring some understanding as to why some moderating actions are taken.

Herve sorry but you repeat yourself , it's very unfitting , very untrue but something is telling me that perhaps you do misunderstand the CONTEXT of my posts ,

and struggle with the rest else the word TROLL and OFF TOPIC would not come out of your mouth/pen/keyboard here.

Agape

7th July 2016, 15:21

My post in the previous thread were in obvious agreement and resonance of both DNA and Onawah and perfectly to the topic.

DNAs' post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91709-Positive-Experiences-with-Simon-Parkes-as-a-Deprogrammer&p=1079836&viewfull=1#post1079836)

Onawah post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91709-Positive-Experiences-with-Simon-Parkes-as-a-Deprogrammer&p=1079844&viewfull=1#post1079844)

Do you understand the context ? If not why not thinking about it instead asking me to 'go and meditate on the meaning of 'troll' and 'off topic' ?
Do you realise how rude you are in this moment ?

Chris then contributed video about Teal Swan to which I responded shortly .

But forgive me, you're 'moderating' adult, well behaving people and what they talk about around the board , to make happy whom ?
To make threads look 'perfect' ?

Would you kindly let us breathe ? Talk like normal decent individuals who we normally are ?

Do you REALLY think I require 'minder' standing behind me when I speak, teach or just talk and that we are all 'evil' to come here or just 'ill' and uneducated individuals
whom you were assigned to 'moderate' ?

Baby Steps

7th July 2016, 15:24

Guys there are some awesome people here, many who have been following the Simon Saga and have diverse backgrounds and perspectives. I believe many of the people who have had problems linked to Simon are keen for input and advice from those who have deeper knowledge of these processes.

Eva/Agape , you are one of these great & deep ones, your contributions are greatly appreciated probably more than you know.

I know it might be a bit 'victim mentality' to be asking people for help & advice, but now this stuff is out in the open it would be useful to put out some help for those who are still upset by all this.

Onawah's thread was not the place for that....maybe nor here...

But still, I am sure help and advice material will be read and appreciated.

Its a very complex issue as being 'chorded' or attacked is a great opportunity for growth, so perhaps some would appreciate TOOLS...

God bless

Agape

7th July 2016, 15:27

[...]
Herve , I can appreciate that English is not your native tongue either but the way you conduct your disciplining here ( of me , to which I have responded privately yesterday ) is disrespectful to me and other members of board.
[...]

Eva I strongly suggest that you spend some time meditating on the definitions and meaning of the following:

trolling (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78811-25-years-of-Trollogy-Video-series-&p=979416&viewfull=1#post979416)
off-topic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_topic)

This might help bring some understanding as to why some moderating actions are taken.

It's rude to tell someone who are teacher , understand the language and the topic they're commenting on bit better than you do, in this case.

Imagine this, you're a geologist I've heard . Imagine I'd come to some forum devoted to geology full of half-baked and some real experts and try to 'moderate' your opinion without understanding the subject ?

Agape

7th July 2016, 15:44

Split thread for various Off-Topic posts from "Our Experience With Simon As a '____________' "

Again, unless you've got it right , this is NOT a good or decent thread title .

And I'm not 'trolling' .

One more time I hear this very disgraceful rhetorics here on innocent peoples heads and terms like 'shill' flying through the air ,
not only I will be obliged to leave but can safely predict that forum organised by people on that level can not lead to any 'greater truth' at all.

For what are you showing off here Herve, I don't have to come to PA, I could go to low category pub on the street corner and allow those people to 'moderate' me ,
and I'm sure they would be excited to do such a job.

greybeard

7th July 2016, 15:50

RunningDeer

7th July 2016, 15:50

Sharing the “Snoopy Keep Calm, Stay Cool” graphic...

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/stay-calm-sneakers_zpss950dwfa.jpg

Snippets from video:

the unleash of scorpionic Mars energy...
lots of squares and opposition energy
there’s a lot of subversive energy out there
there’s be a lot of people giving into a lot of primal and basic urges
dodgy for the next couple of days
count to 10
walk away

Heads up - big incoming….
65QmJxpIEf4
Published on Jul 6, 2016

With heart,
RunningDeer :heart:

:offtopic:

Agape

7th July 2016, 15:58

Agape

7th July 2016, 16:07

Hervé

7th July 2016, 16:11

RunningDeer

7th July 2016, 16:12

Hi Paula , thanks for the refreshment ... :sun:

Now and before this all is swept under table , can you answer this question to me please :
Is it all-any-right to stay in place like this, unique and one of its kind , because I am social creature too and after all and if I was not being intimidated as witness and whistleblower, right from the start, I could have also contributed much more but well ..

in exchange for being called 'troll' and suspected of any kind of dirt these supposedly 'advanced' people happen to have on their mind ?

I think, spiritually , not right . What do you think ...

:heart:

Hello Eva,

That’s a loaded and complex question(s). One that each of us can only answer for ourself. Specifically here and now, my perceptions and comprehension is different from what I’m reading on the thread.

If I felt the things you’ve listed, I’d not have a reason to hang around. It’d be time for me to let go and allow those folks to sort things out in their own time and in their own way.

What do I think? Inhale and exhale. Chill..http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smileys-hugs-765537_zpso1eaenyy.gif

With heart,
Paula :heart:

Agape

7th July 2016, 16:22

I felt the situation had changed when Simon apologized and this was on of the reasons I posted the Teal video.

One line in the intro struck me "Teal’s abilities attracted the attention of a family acquaintance who unbeknownst to Teal’s family was struggling with dissociative identity disorder and sociopathy."

Also that as I said abuse can really affect the mind--I was looking for possible reasons that Simon acted the way he did and then felt the need to apologise--so I felt that the video was kind of in context if only remotely so.

I dont have a challenge with my post being moved.
Neither do I have a challenge with Agapes protest.
It is as it is.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

Anyone can start a new thread with a new topic of "How to..." rather than keep going on a thread dedicated to calling in for positive experiences with respect to Simon as a deprogrammer.

But, unless individuals can sort out off-topic from on-topic materials and realize that "trolling" doesn't necessarily imply an intent but is descriptive of a behaviour that insists on posting off-topic material which ends up derailing a thread with a specific topic... there won't be much progress.

Herve , according to the Wiki source quoted by yourself :

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.

Trolling really describes malicious activity that would have to be conducted by someone who are nearly insane , illiterate or so unintelligible as some tried to project/portray me to others here
or it would be intentional, malicious activity, offending the topic of the previous thread.

Neither of which has occurred , is true or accurate from my side.

And I insist again that you intentionally or not, overlook and misunderstand any content and context of my postings and turn it to what you choose to see .
There are plenty of witnesses to what's been going on here over past few days

and except for someone ( who inconspicuously wanted to stay 'anonymous' but complained about me and Natalie 'muddying waters' in previous threads about Simon Parkes ) there are people around who can read and understand the meaning of my postings and how it relates.
The fact that 'not everyone does' makes the forum big enough .

But it does not warranty constant presence of moderator behind my back whenever I choose to post or advising me where not to post .

It's rather unfortunate that you're talking to someone with full experience in the topic discussed but can not see or realise that.

Hervé

7th July 2016, 16:53

Agape

7th July 2016, 17:22

[...]
Herve , according to the Wiki source quoted by yourself :
[...]
Whether intended or not, the end result is the same:

1 Usage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#Usage)
[...]
As noted in an OS News article titled "Why People Troll and How to Stop Them" (25 January 2012), "The traditional definition of trolling includes intent. That is, trolls purposely disrupt forums. This definition is too narrow. Whether someone intends to disrupt a thread or not, the results are the same if they do."[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-Howard_Fosdick-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-Tastam90.2C_Message_.23_369489-7)

But I did not disrupt ( not to speak of intending to ) anyones thread Herve . If you can be bothered to re-read my post at all which is the one you used to establish this very very off-topic thread
that according to my best judgement now belongs nowhere than to members Off Topic section,

the post discusses the very same problematics of dealing with non-human entities and encourages the discussion further.

Unlike your actions that virtually stop and prevent discussion of the subject .

More than obviously again, I am prevented from discussing any information that even vaguely relates to Simon Parkes and his statements and that for one reason:

to maintain the debate thereof in simple state and one you can understand and makes sense to yourself .

And I beg your pardon with calling the 'troll' term to question here at all and starting mockery of a thread with my well meant contribution to topic .

Who on Earth would bother to answer to thread like this ?

Hervé

7th July 2016, 17:33

Agape

7th July 2016, 17:37

I do not envy your 'moderator shoes' ( rather than hat in this case ) neither I'm feeling in position to 'moderate a moderator' .
Obviously any moderator can choose to act as they see right and take actions allowed to them , as they choose , that's not the crux of the matter.

The problem really is that after several such moves of my posts over last few days , each of such coming with 'red alert' to any well meaning individual ,

the 'threat' of manipulating me to 'off zone' becomes more pronounced,
culminating here in straight 'off topic and troll' labelling.

In the mean time everyone else is ( gratefully ) enjoying their freedom and posting what they feel is appropriate to the topic, in the same threads.

The gist of the matter really is that while Bill ( and the MOD team ) seem to have 'problem' with how to interpret my postings ,
neither of you are fine enough with asking a relevant question to the topic back.

Not even one of you did so , and that's almost years since I'm here.

So I'll leave your behaviour towards me to your consideration .

It's all being taken absolutely off topic now and from where I see it, completely intentionally from Bills ( and the mods team ) side.

Because we could have inadvertently proceeded in the discussion and disclosed some more facts and information that could, even by chance , help some individuals concerned who are in trouble.

Which is not what you wish to see happening, at least not 'from my side'. The trend had been rather to label me 'unintelligible' in eyes of members and disabled from assisting others,

and I do consider this not even personally shameful but you are preventing the whole community from interacting meaningfully and benefitting from I could offer.

ThePythonicCow

7th July 2016, 17:43

But, unless individuals can sort out off-topic from on-topic materials and realize that "trolling" doesn't necessarily imply an intent but is descriptive of a behaviour that insists on posting off-topic material which ends up derailing a thread with a specific topic... there won't be much progress.

I trust, Hervé, that even though you intended your choice of words to be descriptive of behaviour, not implicative of intent, still it is not too surprising to you that your words were read as implicative of intent, by Agape, who has clearly expressed concerns with how well she is (or isn't) understood and welcome here.

Communicating across wide gaps of viewpoints, awareness, talents, and temperaments can be quite challenging. Sometimes I just have to make myself a cuppa tea (or in my case a glass of my delightful re-mineralized and re-energized water) and allow inspiration to visit me, when and if ever it might happen to so. Sometimes it can be a long, long wait <grin>.

Agape

7th July 2016, 17:48

[...]

But I did not disrupt ( not to speak of intending to ) anyones thread Herve . [...]

I just need a "Yes" or "No" answer here:

Is what you posted a positive experience you had when being deprogrammed by Simon?

... anything not related to a positive result from a deprogramming by Simon - as the thread is calling for - is "OFF-TOPIC" and a derailment of that thread.

Yes it's a discussion of related experiences , and kindly please check the same and other related threads for whether discussion of the topic is a part and parcel of the intent behind the forum.

I would not have posted without a pure intent and knowledge what am I saying, especially after those many innuendos of past few days.

It's a discussion. I agree that you can choose to start new thread to contain such discussion . But a new discussion thread does not start with big dash in title and labelling someone a troll.

Moreso, I doubt that a thread about 'Positive experiences with deprogramming ' is not meant to contain any discussion about 'positive experiences with deprogramming'
but only showcase the activities of Simon Parkes.

For that, there is his website, Facebook page or blogs , if you asked.

This is discussion forum of all, not a 'showcase' room.

And yes, the story of Yogi Milarepa has everything to do with someone walking fairly similar path to todays people like Simon who after dealing with many powerful otherworldly entities sought purification and mature understanding of what are they dealing with , so very pertinent .

ThePythonicCow

7th July 2016, 17:55

and I do consider this not even personally shameful but you are preventing the whole community from interacting meaningfully and benefitting from I could offer.
Sometimes, Agape, when I find myself repeatedly frustrated, in a variety of ways that somehow seem similar, I find it useful to mentally step back, and anticipate the possibility that further insights or a shift in perspective, will suggest other paths, other approaches, even other goals, worth trying.

The impediments that block our paths are not always placed there by others.

Hervé

7th July 2016, 17:59

ThePythonicCow

7th July 2016, 18:15

Agape

7th July 2016, 18:23

[...]

I just need a "Yes" or "No" answer here:

Is what you posted a positive experience you had when being deprogrammed by Simon?

... anything not related to a positive result from a deprogramming by Simon - as the thread is calling for - is "OFF-TOPIC" and a derailment of that thread.

Yes it's a discussion of related experiences , [...]

Thread: Positive Experiences with Simon Parkes as a Deprogrammer (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91709-Positive-Experiences-with-Simon-Parkes-as-a-Deprogrammer)

onawah (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?310-onawah)5th July 2016 23:10 - Link to Post #1
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/images/icons/icon1.png Positive Experiences with Simon Parkes as a Deprogrammer

I have started this thread specifically for feedback from people who have had positive experiences with Simon in his role as deprogrammer.
[...]I missed the answer... was it a "Yes"? or a "No"?

No you did not 'miss the answer' Herve. Perhaps you missed reading DNAs' post and its meaning , Onawah' post and mine and the meaning of the discussion as a whole .

And you're stepping the intimidation rhetorics now while to trying to reassure everybody that you have the right to decide . Yes you have.

No need to repeat that I've answered your question and you miss the meaning of the topic discussed in Simons threads .

..

Paul, yes, I find this absolutely frustrating as well and it's occurred too many times before to count.
The problem ( perhaps unseen to you from the post you're holding ) is that most of us do not rejoice in arguments, disruptions, insults and similar 'bad ways' so as far as I can attest but so true for many other 'regular members' we are trying to avoid them before they occur.
That most often means leaving the subject and topic to other people to enjoy their talk .

However, discussion about ETs , Dracos included can not be, forgive me, reserved to either one member , be it Simon or anyone else .
It's not 'within a norm' that others with life long experience would be afraid to contribute their knowledge or experiences ,
and intimidated for mentioning them .

That's all. Everything has its subtle intention behind . Here it's people trying to manipulate whole field of ufology in favour of one person claims.

And frustrating it is ... the afternoon I've had to spend on defending myself against what I could well label 'trolling of my posts'
could have been spent by brining the discussion further from where I could have shared my views on the problematics and benefit others.

So such actions against well meaning individuals bring harm to the community, in long run.
In short term, we all like to avoid arguments, high blood pressure , close the laptops and say bye.

I thought that you want to help each other here with knowledge .

Agape

7th July 2016, 18:27

Looking a bit more at some of the last few posts above, I'd wager (and those who know me know that I very seldom wager) that the "discussion" between Agape and Hervé will not lead to a common understanding, nor contribute much of value to themselves or to the rest of us onlookers, in the short term at least.

I would suggest that both parties let the matter rest, for the moment at least.

I'm happy to do that. This very thread started by Herve was about nothing , else than furthering a notion of threat towards me . Lost few hours . I don't receive any compensation for using my time in such manner .

And while we are all bound to computer communication at the moment, it could have been useful time instead.

Politely, I ask , in which thread can I discuss the very same topic without being called bad names ?

:coffee:

ThePythonicCow

7th July 2016, 18:34

Agape

7th July 2016, 18:40

Herve: does not read the rest of what I post in the context those posts were written.
It's merely because I don't have the 'big name' of Simon Parkes and no one has bothered to read through my testimony and ask for what I do know,

I am automatically singled out as 'not eligible' to the discussion of 'big name' conctatee .

You miss the whole agenda or the array of them here, Herve and whoever reads. You miss the fact that there are questions I could answer .
It's not your interest that's fine but do I interrupt and moderate your threads that I'm no expert in ? Threads in politics of computing, for example ?

No, I don't . And would not do that.

However, you intrude and moderate threads here that deal with ET/Contactee problematics .

Why aren't all of these threads in member section till now , is one question.

Secondly, I repeat that you intrude to topics and discussions occurring between ET contact experiencers and people dealing with the topic long term. How much do you understand what's being discussed , please ?

Agape

7th July 2016, 18:51

Politely, I ask , in which thread can I discuss the very same topic without being called bad names ?
I don't know ... honestly.

The best I can do, at this moment, is to repeat my previous suggestion:
... that both parties let the matter rest, for the moment at least.

It's why I've told Bill and probably you as well couple of times already about quitting the forum for good ,
not because 'today' or 'tomorrow' . It's not for 'this thread' or 'another thread'. It's not about the 'logistics'.

It's about modus operandi run from behind towards anyone daring to stand up for any advanced claims to do with ET contact.

Yes ..you can enjoy small 'ufo topics' and more complex ones backed up by videos and publications but there seems to be utter disrespect towards authentic contribution from people like me who know what the terms of ET contact are about.

Scholarly 'experts' abound , they seem to be still on top of everyones head.

It's what I'm experiencing since the very start . The argument from others usually starts : But , Mr So-and-so said .

Starting new threads and making positive contribution would be possible unless I'm constantly negated in any other ET contact thread I care to respond to.

The question remains, how much time do people think we all have left to toy with people like me instead of discussing what could have been discussed, with meaning.

:bearhug:

RunningDeer

7th July 2016, 18:52

Aw, I deleted the damn post. No need for off, off, off topic. Please remove. Stepping out ...

Agape

7th July 2016, 19:24

Ok Paula, I've deleted mine too. Off and off and to space .. the final frontier .. :bigsmile:

greybeard

7th July 2016, 19:31

Eva --those who are meant to get it--understand where you are coming from, will.
Many appreciate you---

No need to reply to this post

with love Chris

onawah

7th July 2016, 22:56

That is a great post, Eva. Thank you.
I love the classic stories about Padmasambhava, Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa and Milarepa.
For me, and I know for many, they are still full of life and authenticity today.
You made some excellent points. :sun:
Being in the public eye today seems to me to be a sort of crucible in itself, especially when one is in the center of a huge controversy.
Whether the old karmic laws still apply in exactly the same way that they did before in ancient times, I don't know, but there are an awful lot of life situations and conditions that exist today that could not possibly have existed in former times (except perhaps Atlantis...)
My own spiritual mentor, the late Dr. Christopher Hills, whose soul in the past I think was part of that ancient Tibetan lineage, thought that humankind is capable now of a great leap in our evolution.
That would have to be true for all individuals, as well as the race as a whole, if it is so.
I hope that we are all going to prove capable of surpassing ourselves in growth in lots of ways now.
We really need to, for the sake of this lovely planet, for our own sake, and for the sake of all the other races who are connected with us.
Namaste:flower:

[Mod-edit: This thread was created to gather various off-topic "contributions" (i.e. "Trolling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)") to other "Simon as '_________' " threads. Hervé]

The type of work necessary to rid oneself of this kind of thing once it is attached to you would be a kin to living isolated in a cave like a monk for three or four years.
I commend you Onawah for always looking for the positive in folks, for always looking for the positive in the universe.
The spiritual parasites that feed on Simon are not going to be wished away. They are going to look for a new spin on the same game he has been playing, they are going to create an itch, and Simon is going to try and find a new way to feed it. He is going to keep attempting to pull energy through the cords he has made and he will attempt to cord more.
You don't wish away reptilian abductors.
Agreed . Thanks for all of your post above DNA.

I don't think that even lonely retreat ( cave or peoples homes , aren't too different these days ) would suffice . Only advanced yogis can do that , not 'babies'.
Many people who tried something like that 'on their own' , without full knowledge and strong connection and guidance from their teachers simply went mad.

In order to get rid of any damaging ties , bad ties , spiritual or worldly, you need to build good ties first otherwise it's easy to get lost .

Perhaps some of our ancestors path was easier because they maintained life relationship with their elders and wisdom beings , out of the world as well.
So may be then , 'karma yoga' would have been sufficient.

But even thousand or more years ago and if you look to the old story of Yogi Milerapa who was famous in Tibet for his meditative achievements and severe penance he performed in order to conquer 'evil forces' he himself learned to evoke as powerful magician to revenge injustice to his family ,
to get thoroughly cleansed of all the powerful entities whom he established relationship with , it took years , almost decades of very hard work .
His guru ( Marpa the translator ) ordered him to build various types of houses for him -as a path of selfless service - to the point where Milarepa was hurt and full of sores , like a donkey .. but nothing improved , and yet he never lost faith in his teacher and his goal.
At last and after many years of hard work passed , he was initiated to meditation techniques that coupled with his strong will power could lead to success .
And then he started to have some more positive visions and outlook .. so was sent to meditate alone to remote cave and he wowed to stay there till his ultimate victory over himself and the 'demons'.

It's a long and colourful narrative ( known as Milarepae Namthar in Tibetan, the Biography of Milarepa who later became one of Tibets enlightened masters and poets of all times , known for his supreme accomplishment , total detachment from wordiness and true 'experiencer' ).

https://www.scribd.com/doc/58245984/The-Life-of-Milarepa

It's an iconic story, and recommended reading for everyone at the beginning or the end of their path . Especially for those who think they're dealing with otherworldly entities , magic and are in need of discernment and spiritual protection.

The story itself is also full of ancient wisdom and authentic spiritual instruction and shows how hard it is to work out effects of 'magically accumulated karma' once they affected people around you .

More pertinently and where my own knowledge and experience confirms,
liberating strong influence of either human or non-human entities in your life
is nearly impossible without strong(er) positive and benevolent influence in your life.

There needs to be pure motivation and intent and relationship established to someone who knows more . And those people aren't always nearby or easy to find .
Ultimately , it really means embracing 'just the good' and giving up on everything that carries seeds of evil in it.

Dracos ( and similar ) are not low spirits to be 'cut from' by some form of exorcism .

It's probable that they're actually the ones performing it the best .

You'd better have to establish the tie with your 'noble human self' and such spiritual beings who are based in the highest ethics and truth .
It's easier said than done for most people .

Till then I think there'll always be some 'fight' because people do carry countless controversial influences in them and seeds of those influences
so for any spiritual practitioner, public work can happen to be a hindrance , actually .

It's also known and said repeatedly in the old sourced , authentic spiritual teachings how 'spiritual pride' effectively destroys even the fruits of 'good karma' .
'Spiritual pride' about 'being always right' and 'being useful' can be one of the most difficult to overcome .
It's the greatest deceiver as well. There are many spiritual masters who appear gentle on outside but if you confront them or catch them unprepared you see they're not 'tamed' . They're full of force and easy to provoke anger
or they have desires to grab on, of their own.

But , if your own intents or mind are impure, questioning those of the other more than often ends up in ridicule . Life is the ultimate teacher to show the effects of good and bad on your path,
not people or other-worldly beings.

Good luck :Party:

giovonni

7th July 2016, 23:14

"Can't We all Just Get Along?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVY1V8fXBmY

Have some of Paul's brew ... :tea:

onawah

7th July 2016, 23:38

Classic, Gio! :lol:

Agape

7th July 2016, 23:42

2hne8jQN8xI

I want everyone who can be happy be happy and those who are not happy to be helped to be happy
and those who are ill and can be healed , to be healed

I want the wars and arguments to cease ..

big and small

and once for all

for All

Al

I

2

b

:heart:

DeDukshyn

8th July 2016, 01:16

Damn labels and their subjective interpretations and slight variations in meaning between every single damn individual on this planet ... Hermes was right ... :) Its a miracle we can even communicate at all!

Reading through this thread really highlighted the above reality for me; language is both a wonder and a bane. Yet this bring interesting challenges to overcome. I took this three day "course" once, and I think I might spend the $700 or so dollars to take it again (it was good). the course fully emphasized, and really brought to light, this aspect of communication.

The course showed with real life examples how most problems in the world between people, groups, parties, countries, whatever, are actually caused by unclear or misrepresented or misinterpreted communication (and trained us to mitigate this issue with communication strategies). The fault is not necessarily with the people, but with language itself - language seems to be "rigged" to obfuscate the transfer of true meaning between people or groups, rather than to relay it efficiently. More ancient languages are probably slightly better then more recent ones, but even if we take English -- over 600,000 words in the English language - yet the best scholars / linguists rarely can use more than 200,000, and the average English speaking person from an English speaking country uses max about 60,000.

What happened? Obviously the finer intricacies of language have been made more coarse, rendering finer communication difficult with verbalization; especially recently in the "digital" age it seems ...

Anyway, I found this thread (first page particularly) has been more a victim to that than to disagreement specifically ... as I find is often the case in any place ... :)

ghostrider

8th July 2016, 02:29

Negative energies can attach themselves to objects, so be very careful what you handle and allow in your living space ... they can be very subtle, just enough to give you problems when you try and relax or meditate or just be at peace in the world ...

Agape

8th July 2016, 11:03

It's a case of miscommunication here , as DeDukshyn said . Not difficult to see that there are about 4 threads currently in action trying to contain discussion
of Simon Parkes' situation .

And it's mostly the same bunch of people frequenting all of the threads and perhaps, to their credit , commenting on what they see goes right with them from different angle .
I did not want or intend to start another , new thread if there are 3 of them running already . Wanted to respond to the topic , in each case ,
the first situation was getting complicated by disagreement between the positive/negative experiencer camps in Alberto and Daniella thread ,

Onawah/Natalie fought to have one of her own ..

even though and back to the original posters ( Daniela and Alberto ) , if they are private with Bill and have things going on they're not telling or can't ( we all have),
that's fine .
I stood up fully for them receiving fair treatment and consultation support to their own contact situation.
But where it concerns Simon I don't think there's anyone here - may be I'm wrong - who wants to serve a war , even a legal war or that our presence here justifies such a 'casing' ,
secondly and from I see from their situation and I'm rather familiar with the type of situation they may be encountering ,
mine lasted for many many years,

they're not FREE of the relationship and ready to move on.

So looking at it from counselling perspective - rather than ET contact perspective - if you are still calling 'Simon come back' or his assistant 'Fran come back' there has to be some faith in you in those people
and I'm not sure I've stressed that already and repeating myself now
but I've happened to be in very similar relationship situation not for few months
but for ..more than couple of years .

So no way do I criticise , I do emphatise with you fully but what occurs between you and Simon is hardly repeatable and you'll have to decide what to do with your information and case further on,
on your own , even if he says 'no' and does not want to or has no time to work with you further.

What you describe at the start and proceeding of your thread looks like classic 'love'n'bite' relationship to me .
He has offered something precious , you insist he has something 'precious for you' , you want his 'precious advise' and communication and either he does not have it or can't give it now ..
so naturally there's big time disillusionment and disappointment going on .

You're young and this unfortunately and what you describe , should no way be 'a norm' but it does happen in life , in many ways and many times.

Simon may be a unique person but you'll meet other unique people and will recognise and re-experience the same moment . Now you're not little children to give up on life or not being able to take in what I'm saying.
You're lucky to have one another but in love , this happens very often to people .

You love someone very much and they have their own reasons and won't come back or turn their back to you , no matter what you threaten them .
It hurts, it pains and it feels very unfair but there's almost nothing that can be done about this in life, usually.

He/she have their own path and you have yours . You may believe that you are connected and may well been connected to him through planets, realms and other dimensions and yet , in this human one he may have a task and you another ,
he may be overwhelmed by his human family and problems encountered ,
and you have another one.

He had to find a way to find himself and it took him almost 50 years to come out with his information ,
lets hope our generation way will be easier though - due to the extreme complexity of any ET related information I can't say this would be the case - but never mind .

I'm sorry if it hurts , no way do I mean to retraumatise myself or anyone else here . But if you INSIST you love him, want him to come back , it's important for you,
you're taking immediate responsibility for your actions here,

and the saga may continue .. for very long , no matter what Simon says or does.

So that's the counselling part ..

...

The 'Simon the contactee' part which has another thread of its own , frequented by the same people actually ,
should cover some of what we're discussing here fairly easily but since it's a off shoot of the previous one it's feeling uncomfortable to further any sort of controversial discussion there ..

and I won't start 'discussing Simons ET contacts' because it's his terms , many of them borrowed terms and his experiences and my own are different and using different terms ,
and my life path differs from his , we still share much problematics in common but with respect to this forum and level of continuing discussion,
I'd have to make sure to whom am I talking to here , addressing whom, who is interested .

So anyone involved with me long time here can ask questions or bring up discussion related to this specific problematics of ET-Human contact and I will try to answer .
There are countless aspects to this but if I can be of help , I'm happy .

My ET contact perspective may differ from my counselling perspective rapidly too but ultimately ,
they have to be one only .

The 'spiritual law' which is also the 'ethical law' and whatever you want to discuss as 'truth' are fixed in reality ,
not in what we 'believe'. It's what we experience day by day, it's who we are mentally, physically and socially , covers vast expanse of space and time beyond this limited human lifetime ,
it feels and works 'for real' for some of us, less for others who do not have the same amount of knowledge or experience ,
there are people living just to complete specific task here as well that ultimately becomes more important than expanding their awareness in their lifetime,

in short there are many options.

And you know, I take great care with what I'm putting out here, not to harm anybody and give something even a little bit that may be of value.

But this is 'no ones thread' with almost empty title , any moderator may decide today or tomorrow and move it, or remove it ,
and some bored and tired people may get more excited by the word by word argument we had with Herve yesterday rather than by the topic that many people find too difficult to discuss in decent terms ,
either because they're skeptics or somehow differ in their current worldviews and it would be disrespectful to Herve and I equally.

So not sure , as I expressed before, where to discuss .. who will take part , is this a good place etc.

Maybe just fixing the thread a bit to something like 'Discussion about ET Contact and Consultations ' would help , that's rather raw wording but help me to come up with anything better.

Posted originally in Onawah thread because we share some perspectives in common and she understands where am I coming from with mine , at least partially in this case so if this discussion is happening ..
it has to happen 'between members' here ; you know. It's neither my wish or intent to 'showcase' my perspectives here .
If there are interested people to talk to then discussion may occur.

Otherwise , thinking of my own is what I do ALL LIFE and no problem with that aspect :Angel:

Once anyone can wrap their heads around this just let us know please ...

Agape

8th July 2016, 12:43

For ET contact experiences and to express my view on this discussion itself ..

you're all most welcome to come out , on your terms and try to express what is it that you're experiencing succinctly, in your terms,

I did so or at least for the bigger part of it and there's whole file and bunch of threads on that somewhere on the bottom of this forum for anyone who are interested.
Most of my ET contacts in life were positive , with highly advanced and benevolent beings if any but I do occasionally communicate with all kinds of different beings,
none of whom I could specifically identified as malevolent or bringing 'bad energy' or 'bad luck' to my life .

Problems I've had to face and have to face as an entity are tied to makings of the human world, working with human minds .
That's a whole interesting and vast field of its own , unique experience and learning on deeper layers of the human experience is what we share in common.

About ET contacts though, I'm trying to avoid 'mixing of terms' with other peoples claims and experiences and what is commonly understood as 'confirmation bias'.

So if anyone come out as ET contactee ( or whatever you call yourself ) you're welcome to define and describe your own terms with this, I suggest .

There are hardly any 'established terms' , scientifically quite yet , psychologically maybe but few .

But for those coming with claims like 'I experience what Mr So-and-so does' and talking of either 'race' or aspect of the contact can be misguiding ,
it may be your belief as well .
There's hardly an agreement so far on 'who is who' in this category so unless you express and explain yourself succinctly ,
your information have little if any factual value, it only supports peoples 'beliefs' and confirmation bias .

Such is well known to many 'mystic circles' and groups where many people abide 'on faith' ,
they don't know what are their dealing with quite often or/but being 'confirmed' by one or another 'group leader' /guru who are supposed 'to know'.
Things work for some but no one can explain 'how they work' and till they work it's fine, once they don't the problems become apparent because it's a sign of such communities that there's strong tabu about some terms and people are not supposed to ask or talk about it.

In traditional, spiritually oriented groups this seldom occurs in the same way . We're not used to 'fear the teacher' or fear asking even sensitive questions.
Anyone can ask those who are opened to share .
Honesty and transparency are encouraged , that's what makes the group/teaching/people spiritual , adherence to truth , of all.

Faith in faith and mysticism can't survive on their own and on that level , for long time.

So that's also for Onawah and many other 'self-experiencers' , the ET problematics is vast and terms of contact and how do people explain things does vary.

Again, even if many people 'come out' and confirm positive experience with whomever it does not make the ET contact case 'more solid' because in order for that to be real they'd have to testify about the quality and quantity of their ET contact independently and on their own.
If such would depend on 'getting confirmed' by any one self-proclaimed psychic or contactee ,
the world would be full of conctatees and psychics .

It may 'work' right that way for many people but it does not help a lot to establish good terms and validity of their claims.

There were and are good few people around this forum/community itself who have an ongoing ET contact happening in their lives
and it is mostly , very obvious to them .

And /or there are cases of ET contact , most of them actually fall to that category when something occurred just once or twice in your life ,
whether you call it 'contact' or 'abduction' , again, those tend to be defined, definable experiences .

The whole chat about how is this affecting 'normal human populace' is huge topic of its own but off topic here .
For those who can't see 'any of this' and experience negativity and strong personal antagonism with anything 'foreign' there are other parts of the forum I believe.

It's a privilege to have a discussion forum where ET contact CAN BE DISCUSSED.

Coming in to tell anyone here that you're bored and tired of 'us' and what we experience , no matter you're old or new member or moderators ( they don't do that usually ) is bound to feel about like stepping into room where sessions are going on and telling people ''you're all cracks''.

So kindly beware of your own 'negativity bias' too and what are you projecting to me and others concerned here and the whole ET problematics.

The field is partially weaved by biases of all kinds . But it's not what's good , what's desirable , and not meaningful.
It is a research field like any other, new one and struggling with terms.

The fear attached to it is an old one and reason behind many conspiracy theories, the main reason in fact.
Most of it originates from times when information was not readily available and communication was slow and difficult, globally .

Now, we are still struggling with that aspect, those old, residual fears, at least so it seems to me.

The paradox occurs when you have both researchers onboard, there are ET contactees onboard, there may be ET-Human contact ongoing .
In order to make any good use of it you'd have to think first of all, what is unclear to you and rise those questions with relevant people.

If you're ( not openly perhaps ) telling me that we are not enough to think in straight way and afraid to ask each other and answer because 'we don't know' what to expect from the person , be it researcher or ET,
you can tell me of anything else because you're functionally denying evolution is happening, around and through all of us.

If that's the case and we're too 'fear each others relevance' here and I'm to fear you and to answer or explain my perspective and fear to interact and vice versa,
this moves us decades back to times you were born , maybe and when everything was tabu. From sex to Et contact to social engineering to medicine and unless I'm talking to people well educated in many academic fields
you can also claim your personal tabu here .

I don't do this , I'm not caught in any sort of ET-fear paradigm, what I do fear at times are small human minds and dirt being thrown and perpetuated for very long concerning this topic as we know of .

So for example there were times we all 'feared' that this information and people associated with it would become person of interest to some clandestine government agencies or that they would use us to their own advantage.
If they do so for you it may be my own bias and if I don't believe it, it's to my own harm , ok.
But from individual perspective you only know who YOU let in and whether your life is pure or not or whether you think something, say something and do something else.

That's your problem and what I call lies and deception. I've not seen ANY alphabet agencies daring to come too close to me except for really marginal cases
because if they did, we both would know . They would know and I'd know and either side would have to back off if they did not come with pure intents.

But so much is true for anyone else as well . If you 'don't know' why are you approaching somebody in this or another field or think you're entitled to test someones presumed naivety you may also happen to burn the tips of your fingers here.

Lies and deceptions are your own responsibility and how much can you stand you for yourself, with your life .

Going around things tip-and-toe pretending that you can't find out whether the glass is half-full or half-empty or is there any truth in what the other are saying ,
not being able to inquire but watching and waiting for 'someone else to do the job'

may well mean taking side with the deceptionists.

Say if this is not me but it is happening 'in my family' or to my friend , even if the situation is highly unusual , and exactly while it is, I do ask and want to know everything and what can be done,
is there any way to help or is there a trouble . There is no such problem that couldn't be sorted if people agree on sorting it.

But having people who are life tired and full of old negativity they need to be helped with , of all, ''sorting you'' often results in gross cases of mistreatment .
Likewise , so called ''friends'' who are actually more fearful than you are and don't want to know, don't want to educate themselves about it ,
the world is full of them .. they can't be 'forced to know'. It's not the meaning of the ET contact , forcing someone else to know.

People can be told, shared with if they're open to such information and when they're ready.

Well. Perhaps I've thrown good few perspectives here if anyone is interested ,

for the rest ... who may be feeling some form of 'old negativity' and even 'xenophobia' going on , in their lives ..

everything is also 'humanly explainable' .

If you believe that progress will happen 'with or without us' that's fine but it won't happen without intelligent communication , in my opinion.
Much could have evolved , in positive sense already if people were not discouraged from discussion, internationally, and could compare data
and that all without fancy claims of charlatans and personality/media bias ( just another type of bias, yep ) taking over the field.
It would be researchers talking to contactees, contactees to ETs and researchers and we all could benefit, even by establishing good terms and facts.

Turning ET contactee/ET to prophets and healers had happened all through our historical past with most crucial questions remaining 'tabu' or being unanswered .

It's not the human civilisation case now and what is it asking for, in my opinion. People want to know, it means they deserve getting some solid information and data ,
till it is available .

It means cutting through whole forest of prejudice and cutting down the biases and mysticism in certain cases and getting to the nuts and bolts of problems

rather than perpetuating beliefs in people and ETs who can act 'somehow' , heal people 'somehow' if they so choose.

:heart:

Baby Steps

8th July 2016, 13:58

More pertinently and where my own knowledge and experience confirms,
liberating strong influence of either human or non-human entities in your life
is nearly impossible without strong(er) positive and benevolent influence in your life.

There needs to be pure motivation and intent and relationship established to someone who knows more . And those people aren't always nearby or easy to find .
Ultimately , it really means embracing 'just the good' and giving up on everything that carries seeds of evil in it.

Dracos ( and similar ) are not low spirits to be 'cut from' by some form of exorcism .

It's probable that they're actually the ones performing it the best .

You'd better have to establish the tie with your 'noble human self' and such spiritual beings who are based in the highest ethics and truth .
It's easier said than done for most people .

Till then I think there'll always be some 'fight' because people do carry countless controversial influences in them and seeds of those influences

Thanks so much Agape for the above,it sums up what I think.
We are powerful sovereign beings, and we can work on ourselves
We can call in powerful help
we can go from a state of being compromised to a clearer state with work, but searching for that pristine absolute is pointless unless we, ourselves, are pure. If we have dark bits we attract dark bits, but we can always work on it...

Agape

8th July 2016, 15:03

Thank you BabySteps, I do have some hope yet that I'll be able to get back to the problematics discussed previously and answer your yesterdays question/comment too
once the logistics of this situation can be clarified .

I have my personal decency - moderating logic too and feel it'd be appropriate to fix this thread better if it's to remain functional ,
clearing those accusations of wrong doing , title as such and argument that occurred here ,
as it was completely unintentional where I'm concerned.

Bill is with us now so perhaps he can help

:bearhug:

Agape

8th July 2016, 21:24

This thread looks like a kite to me , or moving platform .. without a name or form of its own , could be a skateboard too but at least is free ..

I don't think that even lonely retreat ( cave or peoples homes , aren't too different these days ) would suffice . Only advanced yogis can do that , not 'babies'.

Now I'm scared....
Any advice for the victims?

Just a small insertion for you Baby Steps ...

and talking of deprogramming , I can understand how someone unfamiliar with the mind sciences of the East can not see correlation between the yogic practice and deprogramming and life story of Milarepa and that of Simon Parkes ( or someone else these days ).

But the connection is deeper than you think and lack of education and information in that area does not really excuse an attack .

Talking of Yogi Milarepa and yogic sadhana ( not hatha yoga - the exercise many people adopted as 'yoga' in the non-Indian parts of the world ) is like delving deep to traditions where those various 'magical' mind sciences and methods known to initiated adepts originated in the first place and kept sacred , and secret in hands of well trained masters of lineages ,
long ago before such secrets travelled somewhere to old European societies and long before your 'gnostic lodges' were established .

Talking of people who were and some still are real adepts in 'arts of the mind' and masters of energies .
There's no 'single school' or lineage they have followed , there are many .

To study any of the yogic practice and meditation in full so to experience some extraordinary results people expect when discussing those things
it took years of practice under guidance and empowerments of gurus.

Now if you still think we are talking of 'something else' you do misunderstand .

What you call deprogramming would be merely a first stage , first step enabling any adept to achieve 'pure grounds' , mentally and get rid of your usual ( and unusual ) social programming and biases we all suffer from because they were passed on to us by someone else , during our upbringing etc.

In case of Jetsun Milarepa who was already educated and trained in magic sciences before he met his guru Marpa or say, sought his guru because how damaged he was after completing his magical revenge against the enemies of his family ,

this implies he was an adept already and in contact with many otherworldly beings.

Like anyone else trained in the ancient tantric lineages he could visualise anything he chose to minutest detail and knew how to summon energies and various entities and manifest his vision so it became 'alive' .
Such a powerful magician he was that he had almost instant success and he brought destruction onto greedy, evil people and protected the week and small .

So anyone like that would have been payed by gold and sought over half of the continent for his magic powers .

In modern terms of what you think 'programming' and 'deprogramming' is , those terms originate in computer world nowadays but earlier than that they really come from magical dictionaries .
Your mother tongue is probably the first program you adopt , as a human being and every other language and scientific or philosophical system you adopt or evolve helps evolving you and adds an extra layer .
This is hardly obvious to you unless there is an extra pressure and you develop a difficulty with one or another layer of your 'programming' or they start clashing together somewhere in harmful manner ,
so only then help is being sought , usually .

And it would be a common misconception that people 'meditate' on the meaning of words in order to understand workings of the mind .
Mind and intelligence are non-verbal . If you wish to become master of your mind and of the subtle meanings and understand something/someone better ,
be it a being of another world ,
the only shortcut that exists is meditating on your pure intelligence and pure mind itself ,
one that has no masters, no names, no forms and no language .

This can be done by anyone , at any times , with proper instructions and is always helpful.

There's of course whole lineage and traditions that have been mastered and evolved around that 'shortcut' called the Dzogchen or Dzogpa Chenpo ( the Great Accomplishment ) in Tibetan and Mahamudra in Sanskrit and if you're interested in those wonderful teachings please look for a book from someone like Namkhai Norbu Rimpoche who translated many of the oldest Dzogchen teachings from both Bon and Buddhist traditions of Tibet to modern English .

Those teachings come or did so through many live empowerments , secret empowerments from master to student so learning about them from a book is just to develop the 'taste' for some but any smart person can benefit from what's explained there .

For people who don't understand what a wonderful ability they have and is hiding in their mind and intelligence , talking to non-worldly beings , I think , may only feel difficult or even obstacle on their path .

So especially with Western students , traditional masters have always been careful before introducing them to practice related to other beings like deities , demons or even transcendental wisdom beings

because coming unprepared , without knowing the nature of your own mind ,

people who start practice and develop 'experiences' , very often they've been seen going crazy . It's an old thing , not even a tabu a really.

Untrained person won't be able to discern between 'wisdom being' and 'demon' if they appear to them . That's a fact and long standing master experience .

Now whether our ancestors called some Beings High Spirits or Transcendental Buddhas and some Deities and lower Spirits and so forth and we call them ETs nowadays ,
it can be one and the same thing -

there are just many categories of Beings, also many categories of visions , apparitions and so forth so what people describe in public under some 'common category' is usually a variety of phenomena .
And in order to discern what is it you've seen someone more experienced and knowledgeable in those matters have to be sought.

I don't know how 'well experienced' Simon is but can tell you from workings of many psychics across the continent that they are rarely for real.
They claim 'seeing auras' or 'visions' or sensing energies and various signs they rely on.

That is NOT a master path and not a real knowing . The way the master knows what you've seen is by seeing the nature and motions of your own mind,
not seeking for external signs or information , mostly .
Just by looking to your eyes and your mind they can say how honest you are and where have you been 'taken for trip' and by whom.
Because everything and everyone you meet with who leave a strong imprint in your mind and body sometimes, the impression stays there , it does not go away unless you again, let go and unless you dissolve it.

For people wishing to do 'just that' and cut their relationship with both human and non-human entities ,
again, the easiest path is meditating on the pure nature of your own mind.

Old masters say that if we were able to stay in the pure nature of our mind just one day we would reach enlightenment .

In reality this requires great -great determination . More reason and determination than the one you give yourself to do everything else .

If you're unable to do that there are still plenty of methods how to dissolve the link you may have magically developed with someone or something if you think that the entity is hunting you or harming your life .

If it's a whole array of entities , say like in case of Milarepa the yogi it may take years really .

And cases like that are unique but they exist to this day , and at all times .

In gist , people have to be willing to do some mind work on their own , that's basically all about it . Miracles may happen and someone - friend or a teacher - can dissolve one or two difficulties for you but it's more important to understand about how your own minds work and the method to work it out for yourself.

:highfive:

Baby Steps

8th July 2016, 23:00

thanks - that is encouraging, enabling and empowering!

Agape

9th July 2016, 01:09

The teachings of Old say abide in your own nature and pure state of Mind is most important ,
true nature of Mind is like that of a mirror .

It holds no status, no name . Anyone can take that path but be prepared to go nameless ...

No more secrets :sleep: today and tomorrow never comes

Agape

9th July 2016, 13:48

But with the explanation that he is essentially demon possessed so not responsible for his actions. I don't buy it.

Well, these demons sure get around.

A few days ago I got a PM from a member about this affair, who did not want to post openly, concerned she would be identified. But she told me I could share any part of her PM publicly if I felt it helpful or appropriate. Well, now it is.

This member had consulted Simon indirectly about the allegations from abused or disappointed counseling clients, and was told that
He [Simon] is fully aware of what is going on at the Project Avalon Forum and is sad to know that the forum is experiencing demonic attacks. Simon's response was undated in the PM I received, but it was something like 7-10 days ago. As the saying goes, a week is a long time in politics.

Demonic attack!!!
Well well---assumptions are dangerous but what does Simon really mean by that?
Avalon is not really a place, so as such demonic attack is not possible, except in the mind that believes that it is.
The server can be attacked--individuals can be--according to their belief that this is possible.

Is it that he sees this thread as inspired by demons to attack him?

Simon would not be on my recommended list of counselors to visit.
He seems to have issues that need seen to before he endeavors to help others.
I hope that he sees the need to get professional help.

Chris

Replying here as not to contaminate your thread ( centuries of segregation and racial discrimination, we all have to get used to it , right ?)

Somehow I happened to open Simons webpage this morning again to read that punny comment about his Dad .

And looked back to what's been going on here for last couple of days . Each and every one of us have their vulnerable 'soft belly' , the human part of your personality - and till you want to maintain a human status, the one of dignified human being ,
no matter who are you on the 'other side' we're still bound to have this soft core.

It happens fairly often that human society expects from some of its members a status of supermen ( or super-anything ) or may be hopes for it ,
and tries to cultivate it even ,
bring perfection to life by manipulating minds, genes, computer systems , and everything .

Perhaps it's just right and in the very nature and definition of human 'intelligence' trying to replicate itself indefinitely , identifying its own Godlike creative potential ,
the Universe in your brain ..

and build whole new, artificial world where everything is perfect and yet , it can't be done and history and experiment repeatedly showed us how dangerous it is trying to replicate god .

Lost the thought here but back to it .. seeing what's happened I would wish more that Simons comment is really a piece of fun.

Because it sort of 'dotted the eye' for me . It's not that I'm not part of the same Dot. I pretty am. We all helped him to 'that place' .
And I'm telling you here there's nothing more sad than seeing a friend turn mad , mentally or physically ill,
medicine was my volition and life hobby long ago but older I'm more sensitive I become to see people suffer.

Somehow this rose my alerts from 'amber' to 'red' . Public exposure of some extremely sensitive individuals really may lead to bad corners.

We've had it on plate with Barry for couple of years now and how dealing with the internet conspiracy & disclosure world affected him
so he couldn't separate this from his health & well being anymore . Ask anyone with neurological or neuromotor impairment how mind and body are connected .
How a tiny bit of rudeness throws the frail body-mind system out of control for days .

It was sad, sad war very few people were ever aware of, with Barry and what he was ( and probably is still ) going through in realtime and what I'm going through, occasionally , in real time and many others , I suppose.

I wonder how anyone here n there would feel if something clicked seriously wrong n off in his head and he walked himself over the cliff .

Or ended up taken by the men in white gowns .

Would you feel like we've 'won' something here . Certainly not , not me, not in my name .

:star:

Flash

9th July 2016, 14:49

Dedukshyn,

You are soooooo spot on.

We have very limited knowledge of our mothertongue:

And saying the English average human knows 60,000 words in the English language is reaaaaallly optimistic. The reality is that most people do not use more than 2,000 words in their native language on a daily basis. Yes.... 2,000 words. Can you imagine how few means of communication we have!!! This is why all written magazines are written for 12 years and below or mental age (re: kardashians - gardechien in French lol). The habit of texting making it worst.

Add to this here in the forum that many of us, including Agape and me, are communicating with you guys in a language that is not ours. So reduce again the availaibility of words to us or the slightly diffenrent meaning each words has in our native tongue. Example, address is written adresse in French, and I always mix them up. But worst in a forum like this one here: consciousness is concience in French, quite similar ain't it? But awareness (a subtly different meaning in English) is translated as conscience (consciousness) in French. So everytime someone mention awareness, I have to intentionnaly think of the subtle difference in English, otherwise i do not truly understand English text.

Cultural differences impacting language

Then add the cultural differences - For example, when Simon Parkes took my hands and robbed them in a latin context it is appropriate, but in a British context it was not. I waited to see how it would turn, cause I did not know if Simon was adressing my latin side, or was plainly inappropriate.

You see, If i did not know about cultural differences, I would have presume either "this guy if fine" or "this guy is terrible". Same with the written word - when i write e-mails to my French Canadian business relationships, I am direct, to the point, just a tiny bit of "how are you today" - like Americans. When i write the same thing to French of France, I have a long introduction (well, long for me) on how are you doing, how is your family, I am so please to be able to write x,y,z, say hello for me to A, B and C, and to your family. Now, if I write to Chinese, there is a wisdom word somewhere, all kinds of blessings (without mentioning god), I literally bow ini the written word.

Value and beliefs systems

then add values and beliefs systems that are different for each one of us. Which influence the way we receive and respond to others, and to the written word. In these here are including the religious values and beliefs systems.

Lack of 5 senses usage

Then add the lack of visual and auditory content that could help us understand the written word (for example, if I were visually seeing you guys, I would know, even if you do not say it or write it, that you are shaking your head from left to right to say no based on emotions, or right to left to say no base on reasoning, or, if you are middle easterner, that you had said no because you raised your eyebrows.) For example, i know I have a nice modulated voice and that I transmit iinformation and emotions much better vocally than in writing.

Men vs women communications differences

Not to mention the difference in communcating between men and women.

All that to say this:

I enjoy the way Agape present things, in long "convoluted" texts that have to read entirely in order to follow her drift. Lots of wisdom and content usually. The only thing i do not enjoy in her writings is the "victim" side sometimes when she think we do not understand or accept her. I do understand however that they may be perceived as trolling, because the often seem beside the point or the thread. Sometimes they may be, but often not. So I am ready to pay the price of off topic at time to be able to read the rest of what she brings.

I also understand Hervé, who had to manage the threads with what seems to be endless posts off topic. Hervé is much more direct, to the point, and need proofs before admintting anything (this is very culturally based Hervé, by the way, you are surely aware of it - adding to it years into a very logical field of work, aggravating the French analytic mind lolllllllllllllll - we should have a conversation about this, in a humourous manner
, you telling me about Quebecers, me about French people). So going to no end to be able to have a part that "may be related to the topic" must make him goint nut.

The main lesson for me:

Be tolerant of each other, lack of communication skills, lack of straight thinking, or too much straight thinking, lack of emotions or too miuch emotions, etc.
Just read with intent of acceptance and love, yet with keeping some critical thinking.
Be forgiving (the mom who had a child with communication problems has learned the hard way, I must have paid with patience of many lifetimes where I had none).
We all wake up in the morning wanting to do and be our best - who says "today i will do and be the worst I can be"? (except for my ex husband ;) )

We are all in the path towards wisdom, at different levels, different places, even different paths but ending in the same place, knowing oneself and therefore others (talking to myself here) (my ex is just much further away lolllllllllll - you see, beliefs and values hitting here).

Damn labels and their subjective interpretations and slight variations in meaning between every single damn individual on this planet ... Hermes was right ... :) Its a miracle we can even communicate at all!

Reading through this thread really highlighted the above reality for me; language is both a wonder and a bane. Yet this bring interesting challenges to overcome. I took this three day "course" once, and I think I might spend the $700 or so dollars to take it again (it was good). the course fully emphasized, and really brought to light, this aspect of communication.

The course showed with real life examples how most problems in the world between people, groups, parties, countries, whatever, are actually caused by unclear or misrepresented or misinterpreted communication (and trained us to mitigate this issue with communication strategies). The fault is not necessarily with the people, but with language itself - language seems to be "rigged" to obfuscate the transfer of true meaning between people or groups, rather than to relay it efficiently. More ancient languages are probably slightly better then more recent ones, but even if we take English -- over 600,000 words in the English language - yet the best scholars / linguists rarely can use more than 200,000, and the average English speaking person from an English speaking country uses max about 60,000.

What happened? Obviously the finer intricacies of language have been made more coarse, rendering finer communication difficult with verbalization; especially recently in the "digital" age it seems ...

Anyway, I found this thread (first page particularly) has been more a victim to that than to disagreement specifically ... as I find is often the case in any place ... :)

Agape

9th July 2016, 16:25

Great post , thanks Flash . So many good points ..

I have to admit I am often creative with language ( and ever were ) . No I don't like bad grammar , foul language and linguistic bastards
but do love poetry .
One good reason why I moved through English to Sanskrit in India because Sanskrit is very poetic language , it's spoken and written in verses and sometimes , in rhymes .

And it being one of the oldest living languages we know of and ancestor of most of the language groups we use to this day it also sheds lots of light onto interconnectedness of all things , word roots , evolution of grammar and so forth.

It goes much further historically than was previously thought of even .. the proto-sanskrit that's been identified everywhere through out the continent ,
including the famous Lascaux caves in France and Gobekli Tepe and so forth.

Found a great research page to this topic that I think , could have been discussed here previously in another thread/context
but it's still worth exploring : http://www.human-resonance.org

It offers much more data on all kinds of related topics too such as

Worship of Reptilian Giants Linked with Exoplanetary Interspeciation (http://www.human-resonance.org/interspeciation.html)

or Exoplanetary Genetics of the Hybrid Dragon Kings (http://www.human-resonance.org/hybrid_kings.html)

and more .

From what you share and I'm sure you are at this point much more versatile ( where human languages are concerned ) than I'm .

Even while I am still in Prague at the moment and have to deal with the environment , at least occasionally , I prefer to have the local 'language environment' switched off completely . It would disturb me if I did not because I need to focus on research so one language environment serves me the best .

Before the year 2000 I was translating a lot from Sanskrit and English to Czech , worked on books ,
now the situation is completely different . My brain does not want to do that anymore.

Albeit, living for years in environment where all alternate between English , Hindi and Tibetan makes you think out of the box a lot .
In Dharamsala over the years, even most of the local patriotic community are tri-lingual nowadays , and of course , largely multicultural .
The process of accommodating great community of Tibetan refugees and then all the worlds visitors for decades was no way without pain but we all learned a lot through it .
Even the most 'victimised souls' and there's plenty of those in real need out there and the old sour seen-it-alls tend to admit we did it .

Judging people 'from glance' is one mistake humans have to get over yet, internationally speaking . If you saw much you know.
You'd never tell ( unless informed previously ) what the gentleman in suit at the next table who just stumbles on his tongue a little bit had been through, really .
Or the family who run the shop and where did they come from.
So much goes on and on in life .

I'm too young ( in human years ) to be sour or feel like a victim. It's easy to mistake perspectives for situations and vice versa while on internet.

Essentially and unless it's explicitly stated and supported by lots of other proceedings you can't say whether person A are just sharing their worldviews or have acute situation going on in the house .
One reason, I suppose , why they don't allow emergency calls from Skype :bigsmile:

People would use the button frequently .

DeDukshyn was perfectly right saying 'it's a miracle we can communicate at all'.

As I said also , intelligence really is nonverbal .

My mum would say ( with the 'parental drift' ) ''but we all need common rules and laws to abide on , in order to understand each other'' . Yep.

Problem ? You can't really stop evolution from happening . It's what all the systems really love to do , stuff people to boxes, columns, threads , make them look and behave similarly.

If they did not .. imagine.. the vast evolutionary potential and brain plasticity .. ? We all would mumble in our own advanced tongue.

onawah

9th July 2016, 16:43

Reading Agape and Flash's comments here thankfully--on a quiet Saturday morning with not a lot of pressure to "get things done" today, I was able to read in a relaxed enough state to comprehend well enough what is being stated.
Ironically, at the same time I was reading an article I saw posted on Facebook by a young friend: http://qz.com/584215/10-things-americans-get-wrong-about-america/
One of the things I love about this forum is that I get exposed to the thoughtful perspectives of people from other countries like Agape, Araucaria, DeDukshyn and now (again :star:) Flash. ( Not that I don't love and appreciate my American friends Mike, Running Deer, etc....)
It helps to keep me sane, here in the "heart of the Beast" that has become the US, which is not an easy thing to do.
Not only having to deal with the constant barrage of propaganda and idiocy that is constantly being spewed into the minds of the public by the mainstream media, but the resulting complicity and complacency of the public--both are bitter pills to have to swallow.
It's almost impossible to escape short of actually jumping ship.
But I'm hanging on by a thread (in more ways than one) and though very tired right now, I'm so relieved to see this discussion continuing, and continuing to dig deeper into subjects that so need to be explored.
We can't, as a race, continue to bury our heads deeper and deeper into the sand, and unless the few whose heads are still above ground continue to look around and report down about what they are seeing, the gig will be up, so to speak.
I got myself into some hot water getting involved in the Simon discussion in the way I did, and it's not over yet, no doubt, but I think it needed to be done, and when I look at where it seems to have taken us, I feel kind of proud.:clapping:

Agape

9th July 2016, 17:27

Thanks Natalie. For sharing the article as well . America, America .. you're still presumably at least 12 hours forwards ( or behind ).
Depends on perspective . No , really , sociologically and culturally I suppose and despite the overall feeling of 'disaster' people start realising the inevitable and that 'we the human kind' need to move forwards ..
either we move or we will be moved . The Universe, the Solar system, the Planet are not static .
Evolution is happening ( and I don't refer to 'Darwinian evolution' in strict sense as you can tell from my files ) and it's both biological , sociological and cultural phenomenon .

Unfortunately to many old type, rigid , static forms of cultures and societies it remained totally unacceptable one .
They wanted 'their society' to represent the 'paradise' or a version of it, the final solution, a model of perfect human universe.

One way how to slow down the evolution speed would be of course to reduce incoming influences to minimum. It's necessary sometimes to sort problems .

In long term however .. anything too static is prone to damage . Many of our human ancestors were nomads for thousands of years in between the 'great civilisation epochs' and all of them were migrants.

What's happening now , in my opinion, is one of the 'great civilisation epochs' . It may last thousand or thousands of years, depending on whether greater state of global balance is achievable or not but it won't last 'forever' .

There are all sorts of reasons why so that may span from geological to climatic and biological too because we're living in 'living ecosystem' that is much larger than we are and planets are big bodies but no 'gods' .
So some day ..people will have to move and move on again .

What's better and till this 'civilisation epoch' lasts much internal evolution is possible , including one of the human brain.
Unlike some of our human ancestors todays children get mostly, more than proper nutrition. More vitamins than they need . They don't have to struggle so much so may be everyone feels a bit dull about it but next generations will be smarter, faster , crazier (?).

Screwed up human sub-cultures : no I don't like those either and they're everywhere , each of their own kind . If I say best not to let this crawl to ones life I may sound puritanical but it's how I live and feel , away from the 'mess'.

There's another side of humans that can be equally terrifying to me and that looks like the clinical, cold , unimaginative and emotionally flat type . They too live. They tend to be more successful than the first group .

And then ..there's whole variety of interesting , unique people living from their hearts and spirits and that's what saves the day, usually .

For purpose and meaning of threads , there was an old saying ''The shabath ( the holy day ) was created to serve man not man was created to serve the shabath''.

The holiday is for people to take rest, not to be 'observed' as holiday. The forum was created so that people can have good discussions , it wasn't created for 'topics' to which people should fit in.

But a mere allegory from me , not a complaint .

If someone in back have wrong minds or think wrong about me they will so no matter what I do. We are not young kids and this is not a disciplinary organisation or a registered school for people to come and be judged 'by seniors' or to prove themselves in front of somebody.
It would be too comfy for some seniors if it was so because it would make the whole social and generation struggle much easier .

I got myself into some hot water getting involved in the Simon discussion in the way I did, and it's not over yet, no doubt, but I think it needed to be done, and when I look at where it seems to have taken us, I feel kind of proud.

I'm more worried about him than usually . As I shared in my first of todays posts , seeing where this is heading to hit the wall for me ..

You may say he brought this all unto himself , with taking too many people and problematics on his shoulders and it is his responsibility.
But .. it also reflects all that affected me and us respectively over the last years and from even longer perspective ..
effective disability of the human society to handle the ET contact phenomenon and ET among presence with decency ,
with professional, intelligent approach , it shows again and again , over countless cases of people and beings
total lack of facility and sanity when dealing with this 'problem'

we are all for the most part left totally to our own devices .

onawah

10th July 2016, 15:33

Thanks again Eva. You are a voice for sanity, now especially. It looks like there are more intense astrological aspects coming up that will continue to keep many issues on the boil, so to speak. See my post here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91348-AngStoic-astrology-prediction-for-the-next-3-months-and-next-10-years&p=1080754#post1080754
Your concerns about Simon are probably well founded.
I heard from Simon's friend Becky that she is very concerned too, and contrary to what his detractors believe, he earns little from his work, and he's constantly being interrupted by various kinds of cyber attacks, so it's been difficult for him even to communicate.
He's been very stressed, but he's going to talk about this in front of the audience at the Conference he is speaking at this weekend and that will be going on you tube.

Agape

10th July 2016, 21:04

Well, at least good for him and those who get the upper voice here usually , they can talk . They've got their platform at conferences , friends , sessions , could talk their heart inside out so to say . Communication is important so is free expression and all those 'normal' and supportive hands and hearts knowing about you.

I've lost so much normal human communication over the past 10 years ( 10 years, yep ) that I doubt I'll be able to bridge that gap ever or catch up on anything 'normal' easily .

Coming out in open is easier in the US , much more difficult in the UK and the same thing would have been impossible to do in Prague . And if I did - in similar manner as Simon did - the amount of silly people contacting me could turn enormous and I'd be unhappy about it at the end .

I mean I did deliver few lectures on the topic back in 2006/7 when I was invited to talk elsewhere and it was quite tough ( internally ) as my audience were equally, mostly , sober people .
So you know - if we all remained totally honest and sensitive to the listeners ( as I tend to be in live circumstances ) and knew you're talking to bunch of skeptics who 'wanna believe' and some spiritual wannabes who won't know what to make of that information ,
and well ... maybe one or two people in the audience who don't have that much prejudice so they're 'normal people' who want to know ..

you'd realise futility of the whole undertaking fast .

But yes , I'm sober for extraterrestrial vagabond :bigsmile:

Agape

10th July 2016, 23:31

''And ultimately all who we are and what we've been searching for is Love ,

the moments of Love, given and taken , given and taken from us

so we've been looking back for it

and for those who had given us that love and therefor we've been searching for them

(but now that we know who you are :sun: and what you ate:coffee:)

we meditate on that Love towards all living Beings

as the famous Plum Village monk Thich-nath Han said , I'm but a begger for your love...

:star::heart:

onawah

10th July 2016, 23:35

Eva, you are what I would call an "old soul", certainly older than Simon, and so I think there aren't so many people who can hear your message because older souls are still in the minority on this planet.
I use a somewhat oversimplified definition of soul age (though if souls are all part of Source, then all souls are immortal) based on the Michael Teachings, which says basically that age is based on the amount of time a soul has inhabited one world or group of similar worlds, so that the soul has had an opportunity to become steeped in familiarity with the inhabitants and experienced in the culture of that world. Although of course, how well that is done will vary with each individual...
Simon strikes me as a younger soul (and you once described him as a "baby" from your perspective, which I wouldn't argue with).
Though he may have been here for many lifetimes, he is still having to learn many basic lessons about humans and how things work in the human world (which doesn't always make a lot of sense).
He may blame some of his problems on dyslexia, but it also no doubt has to do with a lack of sophistication and wisdom.
(I say that with full awareness that I would never want to take on what he has taken on, not because I am so advanced in sophistication or wisdom, but simply because I would never want that kind of public exposure, so I beg pardon if I am sounding judgmental, which is not my intention; rather, to be observant.)
He may be in contact with ETs who are older and wiser, but he may also be vulnerable to mischievous beings who will take advantage of the circuits that he needs to keep closed when trying to read or heal others' energies.
(I have had psychic readings where teams of even experienced psychics would work together concurrently to make sure everyone was being protected.)
And I agree with you, only a much older and wiser soul would know how to "read" someone really skillfully and effectively.
I think his intentions are good, but the learning curve he has set himself is extremely steep, and no doubt unrealistically so, though he may be realizing that by now.
Unfortunately for him, there are also some who will be unforgiving for that lack of sophistication and skill and will use him as a whipping post for their own frustrations and hostilities.
Rather than rendering a personality more mature, the kind of abuse and interference he experienced as a child can tend to make one more vulnerable and less skillful in human interactions, though it may eventually also help one to become more compassionate once they have healed.
Until they have healed sufficiently however (which is perhaps what Teal did once she gained freedom from her abusers, and what sets her apart) such a one is not likely to be able to function well as a reader or healer, though they might be quite able to pass along information and to commiserate in a way that others could not.
I think Simon can do that, and as a whistleblower, just sharing information, I think Simon can continue to be effective if he will just limit himself to what he can actually do well, and perhaps caution others about what he can and cannot do.
He has a few good friends, and plenty of supporters and listeners, so perhaps he will make it through if he survives the cell tower mast, cyber attacks and attacks from the non-well-wishers (!)
Hopefully he will, as whistleblowers are still too few and far between, and we need more of them, not less, even if they are still learning.
Because we are all still learning...
Also see: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91348-AngStoic-astrology-prediction-for-the-next-3-months-and-next-10-years&p=1080875#post1080875

Agape

11th July 2016, 15:52

Natalie , thanks again for sharing .. and kind words . Regarding 'old souls' , I think you're right and i'm aware of that .

But mine comes from space !!! My memories and part of my identity , other than the conventional human identity I've adopted from or via my human mum ,
is all 'out there' - and not that old . Maybe 'another old'.
I'm aware of much older 'human souls' on earth, relatively to their time count . Much wiser people really .

It's hardly share-able through internet forum, I suppose . People claim all kinds of things really .
I think it was one major reason why I searched for truth in this life so much and why presence of all my kind hearted teachers , dharma brothers and sisters was so important to me ..because of their intuitive brain and intelligence is far more evolved than the way we share each other commonly here in the 'west' and most secular societies.
We've brushed our memories and logical reasoning but people evolved spiritually who can 'see' are rare and advanced training is almost non-existent ,
of course there is some .. but it's seldom really what people claim it for.

When I said ''all we are searching for is love'' I really do mean it . It's completely pertinent to the problematics discussed and sometimes very painful part or say, frustrating .. missing the love and compassion we're used to among our own kind.

Human kind - by their definition of being 'earthlings' - for so long they had to 'toughen up'. Not all did but those who did often use this ability to their own , evolutionary advantage ,
governing dynamics . The ability of control emotions is part of inter-cultural cultivation of human personality.
Though : not always those who can control their emotions ( or are the 'tough' and 'cool' guys ) do understand about emotions really well .

It kind of .. goes with the job. We all 'specialise' in order to progress. If you don't 'need' something or someone a lot, naturally you can not understand it really well .

Why is it important here .. well, in Simons case for example .. there's lots of internalised , relationship, emotional problematics going on for him and within between the ET and the Human side .

From contactee perspective this is absolutely normal . It's insider problematics really . It's why the 'contactee' board is within the member section here and if it was strictly upon me I'd have always preferred to discuss such topics among group of initiated individuals ( or real experts ).

What's been going on here - and that's not a criticism of your forum - it's just something that is happening all over the net - even 2 years ago when Simon was considered 'precious guest' here and people like you flocked around him ..

serves no one very well. It just really serves the 'joe public' in developing various fancy views and phantasies .

You don't have to take me literally on this . Maybe it helps something . But I'm not so sure .
I'm not sure about my interviews helped anything at all : it's not about people coming to say 'thanks' and someone finding few precious moments there , that's fine, also good for memory ..
but at the same time ..the way it was done made me look incredibly silly .. it's not how I'm at all in real time .

So back to Simon and all the ET-Human confrontation, we all have internal problems to sort out while in this world , health problems , you quote his dyslexia , oh dear , we all have something Natalie .
It's just that not all want to quote theirs indefinitely on some website .

But when it comes to his 'counselling services' things unfortunately start looking more absurd than usually and I've said so earlier that such 'ends' were inevitable
because there's no scientific back up in existence to ANY of our claims, not yet not ready ,
so all the 'therapist' and the 'clients' believe are not more than beliefs, sorry.

Even backing up yourself with supportive claims of some other 'shamans' and 'self-acclaimed' or 'group-acclaimed' experts on the net does not solve anything.

We're moving in between extremely relativistic categories and points of view here.

It's why Barry King as researcher who ran 24/7 hotline and was the 'realtime researcher' long before the internet started and this is not some 'fairy-tale,
he has those years still very well documented ,
but in those days I mean, they'd never charge anybody - abductee or Et contact individual - for anything.
Firstly , anyone with common sense - would find this completely absurd and against humanity ,
making money from people who experienced something so rare and unexplored at ET-Human contact,
secondly , the times warrantied people were not so 'crazy' in those days and ETs were not the 'latest fad' ,
thirdly .. it would simply put both sides to pickle .

Because unless you can define yourself biologically , can not back up yourself by any sort of ancient authority such as we do in spiritual, philosophical or religious realms ,
there's no scientific authority to back you up either,

whom are you going to 'sell your services' ?

The whole thing smells a trick. So you attract people who are similarly faithful, sensitive and gullible ?
And operate with terms between 'greys' , 'mantis' and 'dracos' ?

Don't you think we live in 21st century ?

This is not only Simons problem, there are hundreds of such 'souls' making themselves available on the net nowadays, selling 'whatever;.
I say not right and not true.

As A Being I don't do that . It's a matter of your own credibility and honesty. It's not that I don't get people coming to consult me on both private and various, interesting matters , all those years.
But what good would I be to them if I pasted their names and credentials on all websites ?

Secondly, you wanna free market . That's what I did since I was young. If I give something to people and they feel they've benefit in palpable manner
and if they're worthy individuals , they most likely give me something back. If can't it's not a problem .

So you know , you HAVE TO CHOOSE . Between decency and popularity and being realist and drowning yourself and others in metaphors .

Taking small break ... and if I skipped over something or words it's due to weather today , hot and hard to breathe but it shall cool down.

:sun:

onawah

11th July 2016, 17:26

Thanks Eva. I've put my replies to your comments in bold.

Natalie , thanks again for sharing .. and kind words . Regarding 'old souls' , I think you're right and i'm aware of that .

But mine comes from space !!! My memories and part of my identity , other than the conventional human identity I've adopted from or via my human mum ,
is all 'out there' - and not that old . Maybe 'another old'.
Apologies, Eva. I thought that you reckoned yourself to have been incarnating here on Earth since the ship that you've told us about crashed near Bodghaya many millennia ago.
I'm aware of much older 'human souls' on earth, relatively to their time count . Much wiser people really .

Are you referring to the Tibetan lamas and other spiritual leaders?

It's hardly share-able through internet forum, I suppose . People claim all kinds of things really .
I think it was one major reason why I searched for truth in this life so much and why presence of all my kind hearted teachers , dharma brothers and sisters was so important to me ..because of their intuitive brain and intelligence is far more evolved than the way we share each other commonly here in the 'west' and most secular societies.
We've brushed our memories and logical reasoning but people evolved spiritually who can 'see' are rare and advanced training is almost non-existent ,
of course there is some .. but it's seldom really what people claim it for.

I've had some exposure to the kind of training that you describe, and wanted to go much further with that myself, but roadblocks such as the extreme unbalance of male to female ratio in the Buddhist world gave me a critical perspective. And different opportunities came along which I found to be very compelling because the times are changing now so much. I wanted to see what innovations in thinking and understanding might develop outside of the confines of the traditional path. It's definitely been a pioneering kind of experience and very challenging, but worth it, I think, because even ancient spiritual traditions can become hidebound in time, and even understanding can be affected as a result, even at the very top.

When I said ''all we are searching for is love'' I really do mean it . It's completely pertinent to the problematics discussed and sometimes very painful part or say, frustrating .. missing the love and compassion we're used to among our own kind.

I completely agree!

Human kind - by their definition of being 'earthlings' - for so long they had to 'toughen up'. Not all did but those who did often use this ability to their own , evolutionary advantage ,
governing dynamics . The ability of control emotions is part of inter-cultural cultivation of human personality.
Though : not always those who can control their emotions ( or are the 'tough' and 'cool' guys ) do understand about emotions really well .

It kind of .. goes with the job. We all 'specialise' in order to progress. If you don't 'need' something or someone a lot, naturally you can not understand it really well .

Humans have had to become very tough, and that's been necessary to some extent, but when the cost becomes the loss of the Divine Feminine's qualities of softness, patience, nurturing, etc. then there is definitely something wrong. What that is is what we are finding out now, I think, though it's a tedious process with lots of blind alleys.

Why is it important here .. well, in Simons case for example .. there's lots of internalised , relationship, emotional problematics going on for him and within between the ET and the Human side .

From contactee perspective this is absolutely normal . It's insider problematics really . It's why the 'contactee' board is within the member section here and if it was strictly upon me I'd have always preferred to discuss such topics among group of initiated individuals ( or real experts ).

Probably every Contactee case is a complex matter, and Simon's is no exception. And the public is not at all equipped to understand--even professionals in the fields of psychology, counseling, etc. have not developed the skills needed to deal with it realistically. Perhaps only a few very wise and spiritually evolved people are equipped, but without experience in such matters, even they may be at a loss. So it's become a kind of free-for-all.
What's been going on here - and that's not a criticism of your forum - it's just something that is happening all over the net - even 2 years ago when Simon was considered 'precious guest' here and people like you flocked around him ..

I hope you won't mind my frankness, but I think that's a rather insulting description, though you may have a point...it's just that you've continued to make rather too fine a point of it, imho. :fish: Perhaps you could be more understanding if you take into consideration that few of us have had much experience, and certainly had not much in the way of guidelines as to how to proceed, not to mention the fact that no one had even met Simon until much later, and the only tools we had were the internet and this forum.

serves no one very well. It just really serves the 'joe public' in developing various fancy views and phantasies .

I think we did as well as could be expected in finding out what he was all about, and treated him with sensitivity and kindness in view of the fact that he had survived so much early trauma and was still in the process of recovering memories. It certainly would have been better if there had been some kind of expert team that could have helped him remember and relate his story, but that wasn't how it happened. The beginning was rocky, but perhaps there would have been no beginning otherwise. And I'm not sure that would have been better, because it's not just "experts" who need to learn about the ET presence but everyone on the planet. What happens when "experts" take over all too often is that the information remains hidden away and eventually forgotten--I think you have witnessed this yourself. The way it happened left the door open for many people capable of sorting through it all and by using discernment, distill out what was useful. The method certainly had very little finesse to recommend it, but it got the job done more or less, and if what has been distilled down can be shared widely, then the public becomes more informed rather than less so. As you have said yourself, it's wonderful that we have any place at all where this kind of thing can be shared and discussed! And that's a very important factor.

You don't have to take me literally on this . Maybe it helps something . But I'm not so sure .
I'm not sure about my interviews helped anything at all : it's not about people coming to say 'thanks' and someone finding few precious moments there , that's fine, also good for memory ..
but at the same time ..the way it was done made me look incredibly silly .. it's not how I'm at all in real time .

The camera seems to have its own unpredictable way of portraying people, and it's why some excellent stage actors, for example, don't translate well in films.

So back to Simon and all the ET-Human confrontation, we all have internal problems to sort out while in this world , health problems , you quote his dyslexia , oh dear , we all have something Natalie .

True, and the sooner we all realize that and stop putting people up on pedestals, the better...
It's just that not all want to quote theirs indefinitely on some website .

If a story needs to get out asap to as many people as possible, websites work pretty well, though their scope is certainly limited in other ways.

But when it comes to his 'counselling services' things unfortunately start looking more absurd than usually and I've said so earlier that such 'ends' were inevitable
because there's no scientific back up in existence to ANY of our claims, not yet not ready ,
so all the 'therapist' and the 'clients' believe are not more than beliefs, sorry.

Agreed.

Even backing up yourself with supportive claims of some other 'shamans' and 'self-acclaimed' or 'group-acclaimed' experts on the net does not solve anything.

I think it can solve some things, as it gives added and sometimes useful perspectives, but not everything.
The internet is still a new frontier and too young to be orderly and organized, but I don't think that means it isn't useful or even vital. Chaos is a natural thing, and no doubt it's necessary as the opposite to order, which will eventually come as the result--a new order, in fact, in contrast to the old one, which is necessary to prevent stagnation. [/B]

We're moving in between extremely relativistic categories and points of view here.

It's why Barry King as researcher who ran 24/7 hotline and was the 'realtime researcher' long before the internet started and this is not some 'fairy-tale,
he has those years still very well documented ,
but in those days I mean, they'd never charge anybody - abductee or Et contact individual - for anything.
Firstly , anyone with common sense - would find this completely absurd and against humanity ,
making money from people who experienced something so rare and unexplored at ET-Human contact,
secondly , the times warrantied people were not so 'crazy' in those days and ETs were not the 'latest fad' ,
thirdly .. it would simply put both sides to pickle .

When money becomes a factor, things always get much more complicated and messy. Hopefully we will be able to evolve beyond that antiquated system without becoming totally servile to Big Brother.

Because unless you can define yourself biologically , can not back up yourself by any sort of ancient authority such as we do in spiritual, philosophical or religious realms ,
there's no scientific authority to back you up either,

whom are you going to 'sell your services' ?

The whole thing smells a trick. So you attract people who are similarly faithful, sensitive and gullible ?
And operate with terms between 'greys' , 'mantis' and 'dracos' ?

Actually, I think it's been helpful for us to learn more about those different kinds of ETs and their differing agendas. It's been extremely helpful to me in understanding the Contact experiences I've had with Reptilians and Zetas. Though I agree that the whole "counseling" thing has become a kind of buyer beware racket.

Don't you think we live in 21st century ?

??Please explain what you mean by that.
This is not only Simons problem, there are hundreds of such 'souls' making themselves available on the net nowadays, selling 'whatever;.
I say not right and not true.

As A Being I don't do that . It's a matter of your own credibility and honesty. It's not that I don't get people coming to consult me on both private and various, interesting matters , all those years.
But what good would I be to them if I pasted their names and credentials on all websites ?

Secondly, you wanna free market . That's what I did since I was young. If I give something to people and they feel they've benefit in palpable manner
and if they're worthy individuals , they most likely give me something back. If can't it's not a problem .

That's a good way to do things, and hopefully it will become more prevalent. People are beginning to recognize the value of bartering again.

So you know , you HAVE TO CHOOSE . Between decency and popularity and being realist and drowning yourself and others in metaphors .

Though I can't speak for other parts of the world, in the US I think people are becoming very disillusioned, as can be seen with the despair that Americans are expressing about their current choices for POTUS. It's not just politics-- it's becoming more and more pervasive. It seems we have to go to extremes before we find a healthy balance. There are so many extreme situations now, it can't be long before the swing back to balance follows.

Taking small break ... and if I skipped over something or words it's due to weather today , hot and hard to breathe but it shall cool down.

:sun:

It's hot and humid here too. Hoping for some :raining: :bearhug:

Agape

11th July 2016, 19:23

Hot and humid , yep. I don't know where to start from even but thanks for threat posty.

:bowing:

Apologies, Eva. I thought that you reckoned yourself to have been incarnating here on Earth since the ship that you've told us about crashed near Bodghaya many millennia ago.

Yep, that's a part of the mystery . My more acute feeling is we are back here . Like coming after long time to the same place but now it looks somewhat different.
Not that different as you might expect .

I can't imagine I'd had been here all that time . I'd look older and wiser as I've said.

Are you referring to the Tibetan lamas and other spiritual leaders?

No leaders . These people /Beings of old are usually too wise and frail for public shows . Most speak but a little , eat a little but tend to be long lived .

They can be found on all continents, through out all cultures . They usually still work on themselves and work hard in ways that are easy to misunderstand for people of this world .
Imagine a musician who does no other job but composes great music that influences many peoples lives .

They're somewhere in the great North , the far East , the wild West and the South and they're in the middle .

They only appear to you if you create a merit and/or long for knowledge and wisdom

...

:bowing:

I think we did as well as could be expected in finding out what he was all about, and treated him with sensitivity and kindness in view of the fact that he had survived so much early trauma and was still in the process of recovering memories. It certainly would have been better if there had been some kind of expert team that could have helped him remember and relate his story, but that wasn't how it happened. The beginning was rocky, but perhaps there would have been no beginning otherwise. And I'm not sure that would have been better, because it's not just "experts" who need to learn about the ET presence but everyone on the planet. What happens when "experts" take over all too often is that the information remains hidden away and eventually forgotten--I think you have witnessed this yourself. The way it happened left the door open for many people capable of sorting through it all and by using discernment, distill out what was useful. The method certainly had very little finesse to recommend it, but it got the job done more or less, and if what has been distilled down can be shared widely, then the public becomes more informed rather than less so. As you have said yourself, it's wonderful that we have any place at all where this kind of thing can be shared and discussed! And that's a very important factor.

Alright . I see where you have a point . Experts aren't overly helpful in this situation but we need to be our own experts,
that's what I mean.

I absolutely do not blame Simon for his part , seen also much else happening in this area of interest

but be responsible Being please .

So you see I work more on the realistic side of matters or did so for many years and how does ET contact influence your physiognomy and psyche and general well being

and as we've all observed , experiences largely differ.

One reason why I wanted to start a new thread about 'Therapeutic interventions in the UFO/Contactee/Abductee community' has to do with this problematics

though covering it sufficiently in a thread would be nearly impossible.

Years ago and as member of the ufocasebooks forum I was a member of small insider group there , we shared password protected subform with blessings of BJ Booth the side owner and senior ufo researcher .
So , we felt somewhat safer about sharing . But it soon was clear how everyone have their own side of trouble , with respect to ETs
and how they differ radically .

It was very supportive environment and true blessing.

So you know : here I'm trying to adopt and reflect piece of your own mentality so kindly don't blame me for misconceptions :bigsmile:

Before I say something funny .. not crooked though ...

Actually, I think it's been helpful for us to learn more about those different kinds of ETs and their differing agendas. It's been extremely helpful to me in understanding the Contact experiences I've had with Reptilians and Zetas. Though I agree that the whole "counseling" thing has become a kind of buyer beware racket.

Don't you think we live in 21st century ?

??Please explain what you mean by that.

Yes I agree with you . Guess I could foresee more advanced reality of ET-Human contact or imagined a communication much faster , loaded and exact than the one we can have over internet.

21st century .. that's it , we should be able to define terms better .

If both sides , the ETs and Humans kept to the tenacity of their awareness and to their word , we'd be working miracles already .

There's so much going on, outwardly that it's easy to get caught in it. The daily news .. I have seen Simon got a bit lost in the worldly side of human politics for a while ,
politics is about people , about cities , no ETs should have better anything to do with human politics :sun:

It drags the spirit down and to state of chaos ..

true, from chaos the society is born anew .

Delving to chaos is sometimes necessary and that's how we learn . But returning to our own , natural state, beyond that chaos is ultimately more important,

to the person and to the world :)

Finally , everything takes its own path .. what came from Heaven returns to heaven , what came from the dust of the earth returns to dust ..

we've 'assembled' a form here , made from the dust and the Spirit form , by the Spirit .

So at the end there's never any argument

:angel:

onawah

11th July 2016, 20:23

Most welcome! I hope you will continue to share your experience and perspectives here.
A forum that devotes a lot of attention to ETs should definitely have some ETs here to represent their different perspectives! :idea: lol
I think we tend to lose sight of that sometimes, and it's unfortunate.
It's not all about ETs learning to fit into human society, it's also about humans learning how interact with ETs, if Earth is truly moving more toward being a part of the galactic community.

Hot and humid , yep. I don't know where to start from even but thanks for threat posty.

Apologies, Eva. I thought that you reckoned yourself to have been incarnating here on Earth since the ship that you've told us about crashed near Bodghaya many millennia ago.

Yep, that's a part of the mystery . My more acute feeling is we are back here . Like coming after long time to the same place but now it looks somewhat different.
Not that different as you might expect .

I can't imagine I'd had been here all that time . I'd look older and wiser as I've said.

So you think you may not have been here all that time, but left and then came back?
That would seem more likely to me, since you still feel you are not at home here, and a millennium is a very long time...

Are you referring to the Tibetan lamas and other spiritual leaders?

No leaders . These people /Beings of old are usually too wise and frail for public shows . Most speak but a little , eat a little but tend to be long lived .
They can be found on all continents, through out all cultures . They usually still work on themselves and work hard in ways that are easy to misunderstand for people of this world .
Imagine a musician who does no other job but composes great music that influences many peoples lives .
They're somewhere in the great North , the far East , the wild West and the South and they're in the middle .
They only appear to you if you create a merit and/or long for knowledge and wisdom
:bowing:

Yes, old souls indeed. It's interesting to think about what some of the ET souls who are incarnating here now will be manifesting both as children and adults, and how they will fit into that pattern, as many of them are old souls from where they've come from. TPTB are trying to downplay their presence, but it is being felt in a lot of different arenas, nonetheless.

I think we did as well as could be expected in finding out what he was all about, and treated him with sensitivity and kindness in view of the fact that he had survived so much early trauma and was still in the process of recovering memories. It certainly would have been better if there had been some kind of expert team that could have helped him remember and relate his story, but that wasn't how it happened. The beginning was rocky, but perhaps there would have been no beginning otherwise. And I'm not sure that would have been better, because it's not just "experts" who need to learn about the ET presence but everyone on the planet. What happens when "experts" take over all too often is that the information remains hidden away and eventually forgotten--I think you have witnessed this yourself. The way it happened left the door open for many people capable of sorting through it all and by using discernment, distill out what was useful. The method certainly had very little finesse to recommend it, but it got the job done more or less, and if what has been distilled down can be shared widely, then the public becomes more informed rather than less so. As you have said yourself, it's wonderful that we have any place at all where this kind of thing can be shared and discussed! And that's a very important factor.

Alright . I see where you have a point . Experts aren't overly helpful in this situation but we need to be our own experts,
that's what I mean.

Being our own experts is a big leap for a lot of people--that will take awhile, but at least we've started...

I absolutely do not blame Simon for his part , seen also much else happening in this area of interest
but be responsible Being please .

Yes, agreed! We all have to do our part, even if just in baby steps (no reference to Avalonian 'Baby Steps' implied) :) .

So you see I work more on the realistic side of matters or did so for many years and how does ET contact influence your physiognomy and psyche and general well being
and as we've all observed , experiences largely differ.
One reason why I wanted to start a new thread about 'Therapeutic interventions in the UFO/Contactee/Abductee community' has to do with this problematics
though covering it sufficiently in a thread would be nearly impossible.

I think that could be helpful. Some of my experiences seemed not really out of the ordinary at first, but I realized later that I had no point of reference from which to integrate them, and so I had to search for more information and feedback, and that has been ongoing. I don't want to sacrifice too much of what makes me human in the process, but in order to evolve and grow, I can't just separate out those experiences, either.

Years ago and as member of the ufocasebooks forum I was a member of small insider group there , we shared password protected subform with blessings of BJ Booth the side owner and senior ufo researcher .
So , we felt somewhat safer about sharing . But it soon was clear how everyone have their own side of trouble , with respect to ETs and how they differ radically .
It was very supportive environment and true blessing.

That sounds like it must have been very interesting.

So you know : here I'm trying to adopt and reflect piece of your own mentality so kindly don't blame me for misconceptions

Understood.:highfive: ...and vice versa...:bigsmile:

Before I say something funny .. not crooked though ...

Actually, I think it's been helpful for us to learn more about those different kinds of ETs and their differing agendas. It's been extremely helpful to me in understanding the Contact experiences I've had with Reptilians and Zetas. Though I agree that the whole "counseling" thing has become a kind of buyer beware racket.

Don't you think we live in 21st century ?

??Please explain what you mean by that.

Yes I agree with you . Guess I could foresee more advanced reality of ET-Human contact or imagined a communication much faster , loaded and exact than the one we can have over internet.

21st century .. that's it , we should be able to define terms better .

Understood.

If both sides , the ETs and Humans kept to the tenacity of their awareness and to their word , we'd be working miracles already .

Things just aren't organized in the right way on Earth, and humankind is not yet being represented by our so-called leaders, so that will probably have to be the first step on our part, though obviously lots of resistance to that so far from "leaders". Of course, that gives ETs a good excuse for not stepping up more, but it's not a solution either, and we need a solution.

There's so much going on, outwardly that it's easy to get caught in it. The daily news .. I have seen Simon got a bit lost in the worldly side of human politics for a while ,
politics is about people , about cities , no ETs should have better anything to do with human politics :sun:
It drags the spirit down and to state of chaos ..

Simon was born into a very political family, so I think it would have been hard for him to ignore or escape that aspect when he began to go public. He seems to be moving into more universal as well as more personal arenas now (taking baby steps!).

true, from chaos the society is born anew .
Delving to chaos is sometimes necessary and that's how we learn . But returning to our own , natural state, beyond that chaos is ultimately more important,
to the person and to the world :)
Finally , everything takes its own path .. what came from Heaven returns to heaven , what came from the dust of the earth returns to dust ..
we've 'assembled' a form here , made from the dust and the Spirit form , by the Spirit .
So at the end there's never any argument

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmVbRJSG7JeITInTdb6acBRiROR5HPNaDAOA5p6kepnbGfpVHI

:hug:

onawah

12th July 2016, 04:16

giovonni

12th July 2016, 04:54

greybeard

12th July 2016, 07:35

As long as there is a belief that duality is so and the only truth, then this may well be so.

If there is the belief that you are not the body and in fact eternal, unchanging and in essence formless, then that is Maya --the great illusion.
Genes etc belong to the body--the form ---they can change therefore are not eternal.

Time being most live in duality but some throughout time, have come to non-duality--"One without a second"
The Christ, Krishna the Buddha, mystics have testified that this is the eternal Truth.

What Simon says is part of the illusion of Maya.
Enlightenment is the removal of the ignorance that we are separate beings (duality)

Chris

onawah

12th July 2016, 14:34

We have a responsibility to pay attention to the physical world that we live in, and we ignore that at our peril.

greybeard

12th July 2016, 17:34

Agape

12th July 2016, 22:25

I was just reading over a post of Kerry's from April which I also quoted elsewhere, as it contains such good observations:

We are ETs. They are us and we are them. Never forget this. Our human genome is made up of a minimum 12 ET races and more. Every whistleblower, every witness speaks for their group or faction. Whether they know it or not. We carry our future in our genes. But we also have a form of Free Will that allows us to choose. The seeding of humanity, the combining of the 12 warring ET races into a common genome within a vessel or carrier denoted as “HUMAN” is actually quite brilliant. It gives those races a place to work out their differences face-to-face. A place where the stakes are shared and they can’t ‘get away’ from each other. A confined space. That is what a Plan- Net is. It is a coming together for the purpose of learning. A net. A captured audience so-to-speak....So pay attention.

That's also the final and ultimate truth . We came from Stars and one day will return there ,
it's not 'someone else' or some special people , it's you and us, and you is us and us is you .
Unity is only known from duality and thanks to the Trinity :)

of observation, observer and the observed .

The cat is out of the beg but the message is still bit tabu . If your respectful scientists plug their ears and refuse to hear us now

it may also take them another thousand years of trial and error to get there.

We're here for a while I believe, not longer than that

The air is cool now, after rain ...washed all the curtains .. in the crystal palace of reality

QCUCgbhMKRI

we've all walked long way

:bowing::coffee:

onawah

18th July 2016, 22:18

New Connecting Consciousness 7/17/16
H1f9icCSvB0
Simon talks about some of the issues he has been facing since he went public.

onawah

30th July 2016, 19:18

Kerry's latest interview with Simon for the Malta Awake and Aware conference on youtube and on the Project Camelot site:
http://projectcamelotportal.com/2016/07/29/accusations-and-attacks-seeing-saviors-in-our-midst/
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For anyone who is still wondering, it was I, not Eva (Agape) who PMed Kerry re the current controversy about Simon.
Eva knew I was going to do that, and knew after the fact that I had.
I had no intention of letting her take flack for that, but I didn't see any reason why anyone would have to take flack for it in the first place.
I thought it was something Kerry should know about, and I was interested in hearing her take on things.

Sierra

30th July 2016, 21:19

We have a responsibility to pay attention to the physical world that we live in, and we ignore that at our peril.

Yes but!!! Seek ye first the kingdom of Heaven and all tings will be added unto you"
"The Kingdom of heaven lies within"

Just a question of what is seen to be the priority

If more people took heed of the quotes and similar teaching--the world would not be in the mess it is Natalee.
That is taking real responsibility.

"Love they neighbor as they Self."
The Father and I are One and on it goes.
You can know everything but without love you are as a sounding bell--cant remember the words of the quote

What Simon says may be relatively important to some---but it seems he is very quick to withdraw an apology for abusing--- including women.
We listen to Simon warning about going into the light at our peril.

My opinion is that the man is dangerously miss informed and miss informing regarding spirituality.
Why disregard ancient teaching of Krishna The Buddha Christ and many others?

Chris

That is First Corinthians, chapter 13:

1 Corinthians 13New International Version (NIV)

13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Agape

31st July 2016, 10:57

Thank you Sierra. Yes it's all about Love . And if you have no love you have nothing ..

I won't repeat what you and all of us said so many times .

With respect to Simons problems and every other 'alpha male' in their respective circles, harems and hierarchies ( how similar those problems are really )
it needs to be said that besides love it's all about 'selective interbreeding' .

Every 'John' can maintain structured dialogue on the highest level with about one 'Mary' . Naturally and even if you invite too many 'Maries' to your dialogue , it's still going to be the one who are able to copy you perfectly ,
somewhere down on genomic level .
It's in nature of human maleness to seek 'perfect counterpart' as selfless blueprint capable of carrying your genes to future .

That's how 'Mary' is innocent usually .

The male biological set up is attracted to something completely else than our minds , in common, are attracted to . It creates dissonance .

Further on and while searching for the 'perfect archetype' throwing lots of "Maries'' out and around , they become your 'junk'.
They fuse . They blend . They were not you after all.

Simon like many other males rising too fast on his spiritual horizons probably attracted plenty of female admirers and followers but 'keeping them' and healing them all is far beyond anybodies options.

Females in spiritual realms do not quite often share the same paradigm. We tend to be more protective of our limits because we have to and remaining rational about how many people can we 'let through' and in.

He's been 'swarmed' from the day one . Realise how many lonely , betrayed but beautiful and spiritual souls are out there ,
looking up to 'somebody' , be it a replacement for their father, brother, partner, priest , teacher, idol , god ..

to help them out ? Roughly millions .

It has zero meaning to throw the blame on any one individual but everyone should be able to maintain and respect their healthy, normal human personality and do the reality check first of 'what am I able to accomplish here as single human being'.

'Becoming gods' or overblown 'grand guru' characters is one serious trap on spiritual path and yes it can last quite long till you get over it .
And yes , it may also happen you accumulate lots of karma till you 'get over it' if you're not wise at the same time.

The old and wise and true teachers aren't 'huge' .

They're often quite humble and tiny in fact and hard to find .

It's good to maintain an outlook on yourself at all times and remain centred. Don't make other people jump to where your heart and thoughts are and think they can somehow take over . They can't .
But some do what's called 'goodness with stick'. They think that the way how to show you're selfless and mean well is to show yourself and your power at all times and think for others and do things they did not ask you to do ,
and then you both lose the communication and the people because they were usually just normal people as you are who wanted to talk with sense .

Well, throw them all out and it's your junk DNA ready for next generations Johns and Marys .

Good luck ye Gods of human Creation :bigsmile: