Bible query..

[Sueanne47]

Hi All,
This is my very first post, and I have a burning question!
The bible says that all things spiritual, wether its tarot cards, horoscopes, psychic mediums, talking to the dead.....are all an abomination to god, and yet tarot cards can bring guidance and healing to people, mediums (like Sally Morgan) have brought happiness to those who have had loved ones on the other side make contact with their spirit, so why on earth does god want it banished from us? I dont get it. :(

Now the native americans have star knowledge, these are sacred people! they are not demonised in anyway, but it makes me think that they had a genocide a long time ago because god didnt like them being spiritual? also Bob Dean says that we have to become more advanced as a race to survive, well that means spiritually and intellectually, if we are to learn about other dimensions.

I wonder if it was a freemason that altered the bible so that we dont become an advanced race for the future?

Sue

[WhiteLove]

Hi All,
This is my very first post, and I have a burning question!
The bible says that all things spiritual, wether its tarot cards, horoscopes, psychic mediums, talking to the dead.....are all an abomination to god, and yet tarot cards can bring guidance and healing to people, mediums (like Sally Morgan) have brought happiness to those who have had loved ones on the other side make contact with their spirit, so why on earth does god want it banished from us? I dont get it. :(

Now the native americans have star knowledge, these are sacred people! they are not demonised in anyway, but it makes me think that they had a genocide a long time ago because god didnt like them being spiritual? also Bob Dean says that we have to become more advanced as a race to survive, well that means spiritually and intellectually, if we are to learn about other dimensions.

I wonder if it was a freemason that altered the bible so that we dont become an advanced race for the future?

Sue

There are many questions regarding the contents of the Bible, whether it has been altered or not through generations and translations, what books belong there, what version is optimal, what the Old Testament means vs the New Testament, what a possible alteration has been like and on top of it what various things in the current versions actually mean, the underlying meaning is challenging and part of that is maybe to active a searching within.

What one can definitely say though is that the Bible has a lot of contents about love and evil. If you search for the phrase "unconditional love", you get almost no matches. This is, and I could be totally wrong, to me sending an indication that alteration MIGHT have taken place. Because in my NDE in which I was in contact with God, unconditional love was the clear message I was receiving from God.

I think that the message of Jesus Christ is one about true unconditional love and I think that at least the early versions of the books in the Bible may have represented that in a very clear form, but what it is like today, I cannot really say, it just appears strange to me that "unconditional love" appears to get almost no direct highlighting in the Bible, but I might have misunderstood this or my validation does not apply in the way I think.

Tarot and other similar mysticism I think is pretty false overall, but maybe under certain circumstances spirits can use them positively to send truths, but overall I'm careful about going in that direction because I could be playing with the false and I find no good reason developing or heading in that direction.

[Bill Ryan]

I wonder if it was a freemason that altered the bible?

Hi, Sue, and a very warm welcome to Avalon. :star:

The alteration of the original early texts chronicling Jesus' life is well-documented, though many orthodox Christians inexplicably turn a completely blind eye to it all. The Bible is NOT an accurate historical document (by any means). In crude terms, it's a piece of propaganda.

The early texts were heavily filtered/censored (and very probably altered) in the Council of Nicaea, in 325 AD. There's a ton of information about this to be found, quite easily. Maybe start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

:waving:

[Sueanne47]

Thank you WhiteLove, I also feel it is very wrong for the bible to say that we should fear god. Why cant people just be left to live a happy life without rules making us feel like the damned? I mean, these days the thinking of most young people that want happiness...but are gay shouldnt be made to feel that they are an abomination or a demon to god and that they are worthy just like anyone else. Also sex in the bible is made out to be a sin of the flesh, just because an angel fell in love with a woman on earth at the beginning should not have brought on all the evil to the earth and its people, how are we to get children if we dont copulate at some point :o

Another contradiction I dont like : Man should live by the sword and put on the armour of god, yet somewhere else it says : when you face an enemy you must turn the other cheek ???!!! fact is, the bible can frighten people into thinking that when they die they will be punished and go to hell, because we havent followed these rules..when really we go on to be immortal/reincarnate.

[greybeard]

Welcome Sue
I would be inclined to disregard the Old Testament.
While its a historical fact that the Bible was heavily censored as pointed out by Bill, I suspect some of the teachings of Jesus survived.
Love and forgiveness is the message.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

While its a historical fact that the Bible was heavily censored as pointed out by Bill, I suspect some of the teachings of Jesus survived.


Yes, some have... but setting the 'official' New Testament aside, the best place to look is in the Gnostic Gospels, which escaped the heavy early censorship and filtering and were only re-discovered relatively recently. There's extremely likely to be at least a partial, accurate, historical record there.

@ Sue, this might interest you... this interesting thread:

The real Jesus, the real Mary, Gnosis, the Archons, and the world's first major smear campaign
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61859-The-real-Jesus-the-real-Mary-Gnosis-the-Archons-and-the-world-s-first-major-smear-campaign)

[Bill Ryan]

Thank you WhiteLove, I also feel it is very wrong for the bible to say that we should fear god.

There was an early theologian whose story is most interesting — read about Marcion, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope): (and elsewhere... it's pretty fascinating)

Marcion read everything he could find (and this was in the very early days: he lived c.85—c.160) ... and came to the conclusion that the then-early-biblical texts referred to not one God, but two.

One, the Old Testament Jehovah, was a bad-ass: vengeful, tyrannical, punishing, even cruel: demanding obedience, and not loving at all.

Very different from the peaceful, spiritual, highest-quality God that Jesus described.

For his pains, Marcion was excommunicated from the early Roman Church. For me personally, I totally think he nailed it. The Old Testament Jehovah has all the hallmarks of the Archontic Demiurge... a manipulative impostor, and not the 'real' God at all.

[Sueanne47]

Hi Bill! Nice to meet you too, I *LOVE* the video's you & Kerry did with Bob Dean,he is such a dear man and so is his friend Clifford.

So the bible has been changed to suit the whims of this ancient council, should we trust the laws in it then?

I have fallen out big time with my girl Emma for the past week because the bible says we shouldnt worship anything that's occult in any form or will have curses brought on us. Well I went and sold all her Harry Potter videos! we havent spoken since and she hasnt had much luck lately...I thought it was due to the skeleton she's got over her bed & a rubber Dobby in the room :wacko: should I go and get them back?

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Hi Sueanne, there's an old (and lengthy) thread discussing all things religious vs spiritual, in which this very issue comes up. I'll take the liberty for what it's worth of copy/pasting my take on this (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?48678-Bible-Topics-and-Questions&p=562210&viewfull=1#post562210):

This I believe is the verse you're referring to:

Deuteronomy 18


10: There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Firstly this quote from Deuteronomy, dating from long before Christ and Christianity, is part of the ancient teachings of Yahweh, and was meant in the main to re-educate the wayward Caananites and Phoenicians from their devotion to the Ammonite God Moloch, whose practises were deeply immersed in mysticism and indeed barbarism.

--

A number of us talk at great length on this in the other thread, but in a nutshell, it's highly probable that the 'powers that be' simply devised this "law" to help straighten the Caananites out. Of course the law reached later times, and was perpetuated as a way to control the people, and suppress any greater truth reaching them. it is a way to control Man, by preventing him (warning him) against looking 'beyond the veil', so he does not have any access to other (greater) truths. This is a control mechanism.

If divination really was an evil, think of how many 'Prophets' listed in the Bible are guilty of evil, and this kind of 'heresy'? That would of course include Jesus himself as the ultimate evil heretic.

Bottom line, there is no better way to practise Christianity than completely ignoring the entirety of the Old Testament. The god of that book of fables and 'mythologies' is not the God that Jesus in his teachings tried to reveal to us.

[Bill Ryan]

should we trust the laws in it then?



Maybe not. :)

Read this... it's hilarious, but makes a totally serious point:

~~~

On her radio show, 'Dr. Laura' [Schlesinger] a little while ago said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.

Now, enjoy the following open letter (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/3/25/850561/-) — written by an American teacher: :)




Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman,

Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)

[Sueanne47]

Thank you WhiteLove, I also feel it is very wrong for the bible to say that we should fear god.

There was an early theologian whose story is most interesting — read about Marcion, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope): (and elsewhere... it's pretty fascinating)

Marcion read everything he could find (and this was in the very early days: he lived c.85—c.160) ... and came to the conclusion that the then-early-biblical texts referred to not one God, but two.

One, the Old Testament Jehovah, was a bad-ass: vengeful, tyrannical, punishing, even cruel: demanding obedience, and not loving at all.

Very different from the peaceful, spiritual, highest-quality God that Jesus described.

For his pains, Marcion was excommunicated from the early Roman Church. For me personally, I totally think he nailed it. The Old Testament Jehovah has all the hallmarks of the Archontic Demiurge... a manipulative impostor, and not the 'real' God at all.

That makes me feel better...so we can be spiritual without guilt knowing the bible isnt to be taken seriously as long as we love & forgive...I think I'll just go and fetch those videos back :bearhug:

[Bill Ryan]

I think I'll just go and fetch those videos back :bearhug:

:thumbsup:

Maybe also show her my post above (the open letter to Dr Laura (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91956-Bible-query..&p=1082741&viewfull=1#post1082741)). She'll laugh so much she'll forgive you anything. :)

[Sierra]

I think I'll just go and fetch those videos back :bearhug:

:thumbsup:

Maybe also show her my post above (the open letter to Dr Laura (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91956-Bible-query..&p=1082741&viewfull=1#post1082741)). She'll laugh so much she'll forgive you anything. :)

Even the Harry Potter videos???

[Billy]

Hello Sue and welcome to Avalon. I agree with what all the previous posters have already said regarding the true teachings of Jesus. The Christian churches also say that astrology is an abomination, yet they cotradict themselves every year at easter time, Easter does not fall on the same day every year because easter time is based on when the full moon rises. Easter Sunday falls every year on the nearest Sunday to the full moon. The same goes for Christmas which is more connected to the winter solstice than has anything to do with the birthday of the Christ.

I am rereading a book at this moment that i read many years ago. It is a small book packed with golden nuggets of information. As i was searching for the title just now i found it in a PDF format. Title: "The teachings of the Essenes from Enoch to the Dead sea scrolls" A great insight into what the true teaching of Jesus were.

For everyone. Enjoy.

PDF Link:
http://www.sean-bradley.com/articles/essenes.pdf

[Sueanne47]

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery ~ Good idea!

He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot ~ So do I

[Sueanne47]

Hi Billy,
I was told about the book of jubilee as well as Enoch, I have read the book of Enoch and you can see why it was removed from the bible as it points out that the devil/Nephilim came from angels and god and it was the start of the Sumerians living in Mesopotamia (Iraq) on earth. I read somewhere that the stone tablets left behind for mankind by the Sumerians were taken from Saddam Hussein...and that's why there was the Iraq war and the US Elites took them from him, but this cant be true as the tablets are kept in Oxford University for all to see..

This is a sumerian tablet found after WW2, and gives a new take on Noah's ark:

http://beforeitsnews.com/prophecy/2014/01/controversial-3700-year-old-sumerian-clay-tablet-discovered-claims-noahs-ark-was-round-video-and-pics-2458292.html

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Perhaps the only reason that the Old testament laws still stand up, and continue to influence (contaminate) the entire Christian doctrine, is just one line from Matthew, spoken by Jesus:

Matthew 5:18 (KJV)

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

In other words, everything written in scripture stands - it is the truth, cannot be unwritten or changed, and must be adhered to as the Law.

This basically advocates and sustains the Torah, and the entire pre-Christian narrative. Without it, later Christian doctrine may well have evolved into something quite different. But control comes into this, which the early church was very anxious to get a handle on. But like with so many other elements, as Billy points out with Astrology/Easter, Christianity became a homogenized mish-mash of so many other beliefs and traditions. This was the cleanest and gentlest way for Christianity to spread to 'pagan' lands and take hold - to blend it with the ideologies and practises already existing there, until it becomes a composite. This can be observed with Isis-Horus, which became the Virgin Mary and Child; and heaven and hell/resurrection/end of the world judgement etc, coming from Zoroastrianism, long predating Christianity. Or the Mithraic cult of ancient Rome, which morphed in some part into Christmas. The list goes on...

Another point: did Jesus really say that in Matthew? No way to tell. The Gospel of Matthew is thought by scholars to have been written as late as 110 AD. That's a long time after any living witness. Ironic then, when you consider that the only way therefore to ascribe words to a man long dead was by some form of...divination.

[Sueanne47]

The bible cant be the truth though if it been tampered with, and its full of holes!

[42]

should we trust the laws in it then?



Maybe not. :)

Read this... it's hilarious, but makes a totally serious point:

~~~


P.S. (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.)


I'm a Canadian... happy to help.

[poetbil]

"...astrology is an abomination"
well, God Himself is talking here
Job.38
[31] Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
[32] Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
[33] Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

[Axman]

Hi Sueanne Its all about balance there will always be good and evil it is how we balance it. There are ways that can be used to advance yourself but what is the purpose you want to be advanced to help your otherselfs or people or some other reason just a small example. Welcome once you go down the rabbit hole there's no coming back its all different. Also look up the law Of One books www.llresearch.org/


The Axman

[petra]

Hi All,
This is my very first post, and I have a burning question!
The bible says that all things spiritual, wether its tarot cards, horoscopes, psychic mediums, talking to the dead.....are all an abomination to god, and yet tarot cards can bring guidance and healing to people, mediums (like Sally Morgan) have brought happiness to those who have had loved ones on the other side make contact with their spirit, so why on earth does god want it banished from us? I dont get it. :(

Now the native americans have star knowledge, these are sacred people! they are not demonised in anyway, but it makes me think that they had a genocide a long time ago because god didnt like them being spiritual? also Bob Dean says that we have to become more advanced as a race to survive, well that means spiritually and intellectually, if we are to learn about other dimensions.

I wonder if it was a freemason that altered the bible so that we dont become an advanced race for the future?

Sue


Well, I'm not a fan of the bible at all, I have quite a huge disdain for it actually. In regards to mediums, I just find that quite disgusting. I just cannot imagine that God could possibly think it is a good idea for people to go into trances and let stuff take over their body.

I used to have Tarot cards my friend gave to me, and they came with a mass of instructions how to handle them properly which I found very intimidating. I kept them for YEARS because they were a gift (albeit a gift I did not want). Then one day as I was going through my belongings and came across the Tarot cards, I decided to throw them away, because I think they're garbage.

[Heyoka_11]

The bible cant be the truth though if it been tampered with, and its full of holes!

G'day Sue,

Welcome to Avalon!

Tampered with and full of holes it is, but be careful to not "throw the baby out with the bath-water".

There remains, in my opinion, a vast portion of Biblical text that is quite relevant, and begs for our attention, especially due to its prophetic content. So much of that prophetic content pertains to this current period, and can be a source of immense comfort in a very troubled world.

It is a case of "sorting the wheat from the chaff", and you are now in one of many great places to help in that regard, as you may have noticed by the quality of the responses that you have already received.

Wishing You all the Best, and may your questions continue,

Tony ;)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The bible cant be the truth though if it been tampered with, and its full of holes!

Yes, it is truly a holey book...lol

To a free-thinking person its flaws are obvious. Personally I could never subscribe to the man-made, man-written, man-'MANipulated' aspects of its doctrine. The Old Testament = political pamphlet. The Bible's chief importance is the words and messages of THE Christ. He lived and he died to teach mankind a very important lesson. Love, and the philosophy of love. Everything else is irrelevant.

[WhiteLove]

Thank you WhiteLove, I also feel it is very wrong for the bible to say that we should fear god.

There was an early theologian whose story is most interesting — read about Marcion, here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope): (and elsewhere... it's pretty fascinating)

Marcion read everything he could find (and this was in the very early days: he lived c.85—c.160) ... and came to the conclusion that the then-early-biblical texts referred to not one God, but two.

One, the Old Testament Jehovah, was a bad-ass: vengeful, tyrannical, punishing, even cruel: demanding obedience, and not loving at all.

Very different from the peaceful, spiritual, highest-quality God that Jesus described.

For his pains, Marcion was excommunicated from the early Roman Church. For me personally, I totally think he nailed it. The Old Testament Jehovah has all the hallmarks of the Archontic Demiurge... a manipulative impostor, and not the 'real' God at all.

That makes me feel better...so we can be spiritual without guilt knowing the bible isnt to be taken seriously as long as we love & forgive...I think I'll just go and fetch those videos back :bearhug:

Currently I am at the position that rules in general that limit, restrict and create a more dense state of being inside are not that of a miraculous unconditionally loving creation, hence it appears likely it's not the infinite truth.

Instead, I think that one should seek the freedom that unconditional love holds, be that unconditional love and along that path in that higher state of being as you walk through life and disappointments come your way believe that one day these weights that you have been carrying will be untangled from your soul by God. If it works like this, there is a very interesting relationship between earth and heaven, in that on earth you collect density which is that what your love steps took on through life and then when you "go home", that sin that you took on through unconditional love is that what allows you to become totally free when it is untangled from your soul. It's kind of like this process of being light, taking on darkness, bringing the darkness into the light and in the light transforming that darkness into light. Because the sin that caused this density is false, it might actually turn into the opposite - the truth - once you are in heaven. (sometimes even on earth)

So be open to the idea that every step you are taking out of unconditional love in life, no matter big or small, will one day not reflect density towards you anymore, but resolve into the opposite - truth peace and unconditional love.

All of the pain, the suffering, the disappointments, the confusion, all of that is false. So just because it happened in life, it does not mean it is the truth and it does not mean it's going to hold a grip on your soul forever.

But from this point of view, if you decide to use your free will to abandon all of that light unconditional love force and really decide that you in deed want the suffering, the pain, the fear and the false because you "love" that pain that is causing everyone, then I find it makes sense that then that density is yours to hold and build on in your walk into great darkness. Layer by layer you will be able to add density and fear by doing darker and darker deeds towards that darkness while excluding the unconditional love light and truth on purpose. It's free will and I think there are quite a lot of examples out there of people that have actually decided that route. It is very very sad.

I think that Jesus Christ wanted to make the truth of unconditional love more accessible to people in a world of great darkness, so that this truth would be the guiding star into the light and help make people free.

[petra]

Yes, it is truly a holey book...lol

Oh crap, that made me laugh way too much!

Consider some things forbidden in the Koran, which are not mentioned in the bible. I used to think Burkas were foolish, but on second thought seems like it'd come in handy if you want to laugh without offending people

In ancient Egypt, they had 42 commandments, and a good many relate to 'don't F with the water' (i'm paraphrasing) :-)

[Sueanne47]

Yes, I think I'm getting a lot of unconditional love from the forum :bearhug: its soooo nice here!

Now Derek Prince is a bible teacher and he says things that are in our homes that are in any way occult, like a CD of rock music that can have secret satanic illuminati messages in it, or a dvd like malevolence or blackswan etc. can give satan access into our home. Until these things have been removed from the house then a curse cant be lifted. https://youtu.be/e8MfY0JrZGU

I dont like my daughter going after dark things, I try to guide her on a brighter path but she does resist me on my unconditional love...she stays in her room 90% of the time. I do pray a lot for Emma and the world and sometimes light candles in the church, and things do turn out right after I pray. But I dont like to have to fear god, I'm very fearful of how things are going on this planet at the moment so I dont want to fear god as well...I just want him to make everything better.

I am learning the star symbols at the moment with Native American Chief Golden Light Eagle and grandmother Chandra at the star conference, they bring peace and calm and they are very uplifting. My birthday is in november so I think I may be from the 12th dimension as I have 2 numbers the same, if you have 2 numbers the same in your birth date then you can come from the 12th dimension, you have to email her to find out more.

[shaberon]

It's a mess.

The Masonry scare is mostly Christian Fundamentalism blended with Fascism.

*Some* of the prophets and Jesus most likely were real people and were not all that bad. However, most of the first "Christians" were Gnostics, that the church suppressed and eventually murdered. Judaism and Christianity, roughly put, are artificial control systems, influenced by the chief of Archons. I find the main "running conspiracies" in the West are simply these organized religions.

The surviving followers of Gnostic trends are the Druze (who won't explain it), and the Mandeans, who reject all three Abrahamic religions. They deny Jesus for some simple reasons such as baptism, because they believe it is very important to baptize every Sunday in running water. But you can research them a little bit online. Closed community (no converts), very peaceful, and they ban the selling of food.

Jesus was most likely a Gnostic, a Nazarean, in the line of John the Baptist (last prophet of the Mandeans). He changed some things and started trouble with the authorities, so not everyone was happy with him.

Magic practices can be anything from misleading to dangerous. However they can be useful and real, it's just not something to play with, as it requires supreme moral character. Of course, moral development is what Masonry is about, even though it too was infiltrated and a pack of lies circulates about it.

Nevertheless, the church invented a host of superstitions and it functions mostly through hypnotism. It conquered all of Europe except for the Baltic states, and no one there is particularly interested in it. Zionism has way more support from Christians than it does from Jews--people who believe in Armageddon love to do the things that will engineer it. Oh, and they love all the devil business too, another facade.

Edit: after seeing your last post, I gather some of this is about tensions with the daughter. You can tell me to buzz off if this seems too nosey. I don't think that taking things away (unless a knife, or poison, they're about to use) will do much besides increase tension. I do believe it would be important to talk to her and appreciate what she thinks and feels, as an equal. When we get in those sullen moods and keep the door closed, it mostly is because we feel that no one really cares about us, and just wants to tell us what to do. When someone actually listens, openly and fairly, it's a lot better. And that is where the light is to be found!

[Heyoka_11]

Until these things have been removed from the house then a curse cant be lifted.

Simplistic rubbish! Best to ignore both it and the simpleton who spruked it.


...she stays in her room 90% of the time.

Not good, and having no children of my own, I can offer no tried and proven method of overcoming what is a self-imposed isolation. I am guessing that you will have to find ways of making her want to come out of her room and re-engage.


I do pray a lot for Emma and the world and sometimes light candles in the church, and things do turn out right after I pray.

Keep it up Sue: your heart is in the right place.


But I dont like to have to fear god, I'm very fearful of how things are going on this planet at the moment so I dont want to fear god as well...I just want him to make everything better.

Be in absolute awe of God, but have no fear. Never mind about "The fear is God is the beginning of Wisdom" quote, or however it goes. They are, after all, just words. Learn to Love the God who is above ALL others, and you will have no need for the any of the multiple fears that you have made mention of above.

Tony ;)

[Sueanne47]

Theres a lot of disrespect coming from Emma so I'm just leaving her to it and sweat it out :rolleyes:

THANK YOU Tony for your support! I'm glad you said that guy Derek Prince was rubbish, he sounded quite scary.

[Frenchy]

Consider some things forbidden in the Koran, which are not mentioned in the bible.

May just add, that my disappeared Muslim Friend, told me that it is written in the Coran, that Mohammad arranged a showing of the seperation of the Moon, into its two halves.... { this probably around 600 AD [?] } Sounds far-fetched, does it not ? YET, if you look carefully at the 'annulus ' of the Moon, one can see a ' Band 'where the ' craters ' do not impinge ?

Add to this reports of the Moon sounding 'hollow' {{ Hallowed ??? }} , The B & W film ' Cat Women of the Moon, and David Icke's friend Mutwa's Shamainic legend of the Moon being ' an Egg ', being towed across the sky.... one can agree with Hey okah -11 not to discard the baby with the bath water......... There's always SOME things we can glean, which will be useful...
Welcome to PA Forum Sueanne, and Petra, { hope laughing too much didn't have any consequences ! ! !

[ wouldn't like to think you W** Got a stitch yourself ! ! ]

[Sueanne47]

There's a guy on youtube that says the moon isnt even there and its a hologram, because he's noticed a line going up the screen like its a security camera false image

[Frenchy]

Don't remember off-hand if it is Crow777, but what is suggested, is a possible ' Energy Wave ', internally generated...
But might also be a mal-function ? side - note :- Issac Asimov [?] wrote of the ' Sentinel ', a cosmic ' Alarm-clock ', don't remember the exact book title just now, but it was a good read !

Back to topic, I'm not so sure if any of the Bible versions mention the Moon ? ? ? [ Coran excepted ! ]

goodnight all !

[Foxie Loxie]

Very interesting to read all the above posts! I was quite fortunate to stumble across the interviews of Joseph Atwill. Listening to what he has dug out of true history will bring you a very refreshing view of this entire Bible thing. It has answered a lot of my own questions as I also came from a very narrowminded religious viewpoint of everything. He wrote a book called "Ceasar's Christ". I think you would find it most helpful. The first question we should ask ourselves; what exactly IS the Bible?
Then, where did it come from? Finally, why have we accepted that it is THE Word of God? I know from my own research many key words were incorrectly translated, which leads to many discussions. As a result, a whole religious web has been woven by human beings & many of us have never questioned exactly WHY we believe what we have been taught, or if it is even correct. The Protestant Reformation really didn't change things much as their beliefs were still based upon what had been dictated from the 300's. It's good you are questioning as that is the only way we can learn & grow! Keep it up! :thumbsup:

[ghostrider]

The ETs say god is a term created by men to control other men... they use a term called Ishwich l means kiLyrians and Evas from earthof wisdom... Jehovah was a higher evolved human being, a splinter group of the plejaren became rulers over earth after 200 scientist under the command of Semjasa the chief scientist of king Arus... they called themselves the sons of heaven, and the creators of creation. .
King Arus was the grandfather of Jehovah, whose son Jehav kept the religion alive , since the mixing of Lyrians and Evas from earth... the kings of earth corrupted the spiritual teaching just like every time it was given to mankind. .. so your reading truth with the monarchy having thrown in a control system , canceling the power of the codex written in to the words whether spoken aloud or silently. ..you are responsible for you... the spirit inside you will guide you in to all truth about your thoughts, feelings, and actions, if you have learned to pay attention to it...

[Marikins]

Regarding practice of the occult allowing evil in, it is possible based on the character and intent of the participants. Wherever we want power over others, want to harm others or trade our spiritual freedom for some earthly edge via relationship with ethereal lowlifes we are inviting misfortune. Further when we practice dark arts we are really denying our full spiritual heritage for a bag of tricks. It is a very poor bargain.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Now Derek Prince is a bible teacher and he says things that are in our homes that are in any way occult, like a CD of rock music that can have secret satanic illuminati messages in it, or a dvd like malevolence or blackswan etc. can give satan access into our home. [/url]

I'm afraid, first of all, that's a load of rubbish :blushing:. There is no such thing as Satan as a being, an entity. The word 'satan' comes from the Hebrew 'an adversary', or an 'opposer' - one to accuse or question. Anyone can be an adversary, and thus anyone can be 'a satan'. The two terms are interchangeable, and are used interchangeably in scripture. For example:

The common Christian translation - King James Version
Chronicles 21: (KJV)
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

The literal translation - Young's Literal Translation
Chronicles 21:
1 And there standeth up an adversary against Israel, and persuadeth David to number Israel

So there's satan - just a generic 'adversary'. The early church made a personified satan, to act as their literal yang to Christ's ying. Its idea was to frighten, persuade, and threaten people to do the church's bidding, and accept its teachings, under threat of what 'the satan' will do to you. It's all garbage. And so sadly many people buy into it - accept this invented mythology, until they are programmed to really believe in it.

But there is also a nasty by-product to this. We create our realities. What we focus on in our thought has the power to draw on like energy – because thought is power, and consciousness is ALL. When we do this, there is the potential to bring these negative things into our realities. There are dark energies in existence, living on the astral plane (lost souls who refuse the light). They like nothing more than to prey on human fear and negativity. They thrive on human belief. Like anything else, they are only strong when you feed them; if you give them energy. Then, they can and will have an influence on your life.

When they say in Christianity that the Devil is there to mislead you, never did it proclaim a greater truth. Satan really really does mislead the seeking soul, because it is a figment, and never existed in the first place.



I dont like my daughter going after dark things, I try to guide her on a brighter path but she does resist me on my unconditional love...she stays in her room 90% of the time. I do pray a lot for Emma and the world and sometimes light candles in the church, and things do turn out right after I pray.

It's ok. Everybody is looking for something; mostly, we are looking for ourselves. But she is young, and probably doesn't know who or what she is just yet, what to look for, where to go, or who to follow. It's ok, it's natural. All you can do is what you're doing. Never force, never instruct or preach (the young hate that), simply BE. And be there to help and to guide. And continue to send positive thought and prayer in her direction. Thought is power. And positive thought is the most potent power there is.


But I dont like to have to fear god.

That's good, that's your instinct (and your higher self) telling you that what you've been told to believe is wrong. Trust that feeling. There is no need to fear God. That is religious propaganda to control you, and to maintain your obedience. But it's false and meaningless, because God is love. God is the ultimate expression of unconditional love. Ask yourself why any soul would want to fear unconditional love?

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.


I'm very fearful of how things are going on this planet at the moment so I dont want to fear god as well...I just want him to make everything better.

If you have fear, you emanate fear, and if you emanate fear the world reflects it back to you, and all you will experience is fear. But it is natural and commonplace at the moment, and I'm with you on this, because I feel the same fear. But I try not to focus too much on the negative things that are happening, but look to the positive instead. If there's one thing I do wholeheartedly believe in the Christian message, is that good will prevail. Everything will turn out fine in the end.

[Sueanne47]

Thank you all so much for making things a lot clearer, I looked forward to finishing work today and coming back on again (I couldnt find a smiley group hug!)

I very much agree with Foxie Loxie on doing some detective work of the bible in its original state, was it 'really' Moses who wrote the 10 commandments, how do we know for sure? I would like to know what was written at source. After all, the Shroud of Turin was found...and it really is an image of Jesus Christ, I cant beleive that. They found the date of the cloth matches the time Jesus was living and there was blood on it where his feet and hands were. Not only that there was a crop circle of Jesus's face and back of head either side of a motorway...that wasnt a hoax was it?

Sue

[Foxie Loxie]

It seems people believe whatever they CHOOSE to believe, whether it is correct or not! Whatever a child is brainwashed in, it is most likely he or she will continue in that "system" until something comes along to start making them think outside that box! Congratulations on this journey you have begun! My new motto is, "Question Everything!"(especially if that belief has led to negative results in one's life) :bearhug:

[Sueanne47]

Thanks Foxie, I'm a woman that likes to get to the bottom of things! I find Native Americans a great guide for life and wisdom but the bible is too muddled thinking for me but I love god and Jesus.

[Foxie Loxie]

Keep digging!! I don't even like to use the term "God" anymore as each person has his or her own meaning applied to that term; all of which could be different! :facepalm:

Creator of All Things, maybe, or the One Source from Whom we all have radiated. What started me on my search was discovering the horrid incorrect translations of certain words in the Bible & the fact that the narrowminded religious system I had been a part of ruined my entire life! :Angel: Each of us has to find our own answers & that is how this Forum is so wonderful! We are each at a different level in our search, but we are all here to help each other in the process! :bearhug:

[Bluegreen]

Hmm ... you read beforeitsnews, you've read the Book of Enoch, you're familiar with the Sumerian Tablets, Bob Dean, Sally Morgan, Native American lore ...
I'd say you have a pretty good head start with your burning question :)

One can read the Book of Thomas in fifteen minutes, but it has 'staying power' much beyond ...
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom-meyer.html
You can follow this link to the entire Gnostic Gospels, which appear here pretty much as translated circa 100 AD (CE?).


I wonder if it was a freemason that altered the bible so that we dont become an advanced race for the future?

"The first King James Bible, which was edited by Francis Bacon and prepared under Masonic supervision, bears more Mason's marks than the Cathedral of Strasburg."
- Manly P Hall, 33rd degree Mason and author of The Secret Teachings Of All Ages
http://sirbacon.org/links/bible.html

IMHO: Jesus of Nazareth left us specific instructions; all we need do is follow his directions (demanding they may be) and we will be fine :heart:

[Sueanne47]

What?!!! the bible was under masonic supervision? for crying out loud they've got their fingers into all things and changing the bible...nothing is sacred

The Gospel of Thomas (6) Yeshua said 'do not lie, and do not do what you hate'
(39) Yeshua said 'the pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them.

I also look at the work of Dr Semir Osmanagic who is studying the Bosnian pyramids, he said these pyramids were built to benefit people and the tunnels underneath have streams of water containing live negative ions energy which is very healing and not dead as in our flouride tapwater. People with Asthma are fine when they come out of the pyramid and dont need an air pump anymore. High blood pressure gets normalised, High blood sugar gets normalised, the raised oxygen kills Bacteria and viruses. We've been lied to all these years because all the pyramids were there to bring good health to the people and not a burial ground for the dead kings/queens. Also we found out all the ancient sites and pyramids are connected as a collective energy source.

[Heyoka_11]

After all, the Shroud of Turin was found...and it really is an image of Jesus Christ, I cant believe that. They found the date of the cloth matches the time Jesus was living and there was blood on it where his feet and hands were. Not only that there was a crop circle of Jesus's face and back of head either side of a motorway...that wasn't a hoax was it?

G'day Sue,

Whilst I had not heard of the crop circle you mention, I do have a book on the shroud, so I appreciate your efforts to find, what we consider to be, tangible evidence of Jesus' existence, but do we need it?

Such things provide a somewhat flimsy foundation for belief, as there will always exist naysayers, and you may well find that your belief will wax and wane in concert with which side has the upper hand in public debate.

If you need proof Sue, then look outside this realm, and that includes looking within yourself. There you will find absolute proof that cannot be shaken.

Wishing you and family well,

Tony.

[East Sun]

It took a lifetime of study to realize that you can't separate Bible ETs Aliens humans we are all part of the whole. The Bible is full of references to Aliens including the New Testament, Jesus etc.

Don't wish to offend anyone but please study with an open mind.

We have been kept in the dark for far too long. Everywhere I look whether at some works of art, philosophy, other religions the evidence is there.

Be well everyone......

[Sueanne47]

Agreed Tony - your right, why do I need a book to tell me stuff when I already know inside what is right

[Heyoka_11]

Agreed Tony - your right, why do I need a book to tell me stuff when I already know inside what is right

That's the spirit!

[Bluegreen]

King James himself was an interesting historical figure to say the least, with accounts of his life and reign ranging from "wise and peaceful ruler" to "Satanist and pedophile." Most agree that he was intelligent and well-educated. He united Scotland and England to create what we know today as Great Britain. He abolished Parliament and replaced it with the Divine Right of Kings doctrine, which was his idea ...

"Kings are rightly called gods ... They are accountable to God only, so it is a crime for anyone to argue about what a king can do."

According to Wikipedia, "He studied witchcraft, which he considered to be a branch of theology. James became obssessed with the threat posed by witches and wrote the Daemonologie in 1597, a tract inspired by his personal involvement which opposed the practice of witchcraft. James personally supervised the torture of women accused of being witches."

He understood propaganda, and produced plays and books designed to influence public opinion. He hated smoking, and to this end was behind what was possibly among the first and some say best of the anti-smoking campaigns, A Counterblaste To Tobacco. He survived at least four assassination attempts, executing both Guy Fawkes and Sir Walter Raleigh along the way. He was keenly interested in colonization, a practice his successors were to turn into a science. The first English settlement in North America, Jamestown in Virginia, is named after him.

He married the 14-year-old Anne of Denmark, and the Queen became pregnant at least eight times, with only three children surviving infancy. He lavished public affection on young males throughout his life, beginning in his teens and continuing until his death at the age of 58. This is not disputed. His sexuality, however, remains a subject of controversy. Some historians say his subjects called him "Queen James" and that he is today buried between his two favorite boyfriends, while others describe him as a devoted husband and father who publicly denounced the "crime" of sodomy.

James hired 54 translators to produce the 1611 Bible that bears his name, headed by the aforementioned Sir Francis Bacon. Interestingly, the King was also a vested patron of one William Shakespeare. There are those today who make a compelling argument that Bacon and Shakespeare were, in fact, the same individual.

[Sueanne47]

Hi Bluegreen,

Was King James one of the knights templars?

[Bluegreen]

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/james_vi/james_vi.html
http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/freemasonry-and-the-bible.html

from The History of the Knights Templar
"In A.D. 1623, King James recommended the antient way of wearing caps to be observed; and the King was pleased to take notice of the good order of the House of the Inner Temple in that particular."
http://sacred-texts.com/sro/hkt/hkt16.htm

"King James Bible translator Miles Smith's first pastoral office came with his selection in 1584 to be vicar at Bosbury, a small village near Ledbury, Herefordshire, which was associated with the Knights Templar."
http://kingjamesbibletranslators.org/bios/Miles_Smith/
Smith is credited as "Final Editor"; he also wrote the original Preface.

[Sueanne47]

tZVmPBIRJnE

Tony (Heyoka 11) said what Chief Golden Light Eagle is saying...go with what you feel is right!

[Heyoka_11]

Tony (Heyoka 11) said what Chief Golden Light Eagle is saying...go with what you feel is right!

Hey...That's me!

I reckon that you'd find that that sentiment is pretty well a given on AF.

Tony.

[lightpotential]

Dear Sue

There is a good answer to your question. But first I would say that we need to make a clear distinction between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament primarily refers not to the ultimate God, but to some sort of lower entity. Now there are two ways to address even this point.

Following the Gnostic tradition, the Old Testament God is the Demiurge. The false god created by an act of error. Next, there is then the idea that the Old Testament God is one of the Elohim. In this scenario, the God in question is some sort of extra-terrestrial that the Jews chose to follow (note that I did not say the Jews were chosen).

It is true that there are many Old Testament references talking about sorcery, casting of horoscopes etc. as being an abomination. The rules of this particular God though, do not appear to be based upon anything other than maintaining his power over the group of people that he has decided to form an alliance with, or contract with i.e. the Jews.

Now in Revelation, in the New Testament of the Bible, there are similar remarks with regards to various spiritual or psychic activities as being ‘evil.’ I would regard these though as very different in their character to the rules of the Old Testament God, even though they appear to be very similar.

On my own website, Occult Physics, I have a four-part essay series on The Outer Darkness. And one of the essays discusses morality as being the science of health. I believe this is the critical understanding to have with regards to avoiding certain psychic practices to do with “otherworldly” realms.

In my 3rd essay I look at “The Seven Deadly Sins,” from a New Testament perspective – not an old Testament perspective. You may find the essay very interesting. I enclose the link as follows:

The Outer Darkness - The 7 Deadly Sins (http://www.occultphysics.com/7-deadly-sins.html)


Sincerely


Keith

[Jhonie]

Hi Sue, Bill Donahue has a very interesting view of the bible. This is a link to his youtube page.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bdona4556/videos

Also, Ralph Ellis has done some very interesting research:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7aczBdyFw0

[Sueanne47]

Thanks very much Jhonie, my! Mr Donahue has a lot of videos! but some very good points though