The Cosmic Predators - a Question for Avalonians [Archive]

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Kryztian

22nd July 2016, 16:15

Biff

22nd July 2016, 16:36

Castaneda. He was a fraud (http://www.salon.com/2007/04/12/castaneda/). The Idea in the quote is nonsense. Our planet, with all its evil, is an ordinary organic planetary evolution. No predators, no draco, no reptiles, just unbridled imagination. Good thread.

DNA

22nd July 2016, 16:38

This would most certainly be Castanada. I'm a huge fan of
lovecraft, so if you tell me these things were stated by he in a personal letter
I'm going to be surprised but not overly.

Foxie Loxie

22nd July 2016, 17:02

I'm guessing John Lash.

Limor Wolf

22nd July 2016, 17:39

Hi Kryztian, thank you and I will personally refrain from participating in the guess part. This is true and it was meant to come to the surface for us, as each will make our own advancement in understanding this and how our life has worked and interfered with personally and collectively to a great degree which may shock some of us, and certainly the rest of society (should that be on the cards). It will also shock politicians and other leaders in several areas who were not 'in the know' and did not suspect, but this shock has a purpose, and it must bring us all back together, nothing less than that will bring our desired and rightful freedom as humanity - and now is our time. There are also potential good news to find out with regards to ourselves, and a lot of responsibility that will come only when higher level of integrity and connection to our higher source aspects beyond any one race or species will be embraced. An emphasis will be put on what is shared and mutual between all ( other than those who have lost it or chose not to follow). It is very deeply disturbing to find out, when it can be seen and detected within us and others, but the face can and ought to be to our future and it is a key to our freedom, we must see, face and resolve and support each other while at it. (And there are a few ways, all connected to the laws of the universe, becoming aware to it and live by it)

With some of the things said in this quote I am more reluctant to agree, or perheps with that which underlays behind the words -

"The predator is our lord and master" - Not mine, my friend, as I have non of those. Tricking themselves into our lives via manipulation and genetic interference in our creation to supress certain things and obtain certain other (or same) things for themselves is not impressive to the least and do not align with universal laws. That is not accaptable to be done to any living being, be it human, plant or an animal, so we have things to re-learn our self.

It has rendered us docile, helpless. - When we don't have knowledge and are unware, we fall into this category, when we put our prime trust outide ourselves we are bound to give our power away. When we fail to feel connected to all there is and to one another, even if the other have suffered from those subjgations and fell pray to it - allowing it to work via them.. (but genuinely remorse) and we do not accept, then we are uncapable to come back to the wholeness needed to get us out and can be rendered helpless.

So there is work to do, but now is the time, and the only one more separation that is needed - is from 'their' mind back to our hearts - which is the source connection

Many blessings ~

Limor

TargeT

22nd July 2016, 17:43

Castaneda. He was a fraud. The Idea in the quote is nonsense. Our planet, with all its evil, is an ordinary organic planetary evolution. No predators, no draco, no reptiles, just unbridled imagination. Good thread.
so that voice in your head, the one that says wierd **** at times and prompts with ideas that seem out of character is you?

You've never gotten emotionally charged (angry is the easiest example) and did things out of character?

have you lived? (lol)

With some of the things said in this quote I may not agree, or perheps that which underlays behind the words -

"The predator is our lord and master" - Not mine, my friend, as I have non of those. Tricking themselves into our lives via manipulation and genetic interference in our creation to supress certain things and obtain certain other (or same) things for themselves is not impressive to the least and do not align with universal laws. That is not accaptable to be done to any living being, be it human, plant or an animal, so we have things to re-learn our self.

It has rendered us docile, helpless. - When we don't have knowledge and are unware, we fall into this category, when we put our prime trust outide ourselves we are bound to give our power away. When we fail to feel connected to all there is and to one another, even if the other have suffered from those subjgations and fell pray to it - allowing it to work via them.. (but genuinely remorse and we do not accept), then we are uncapable to come back to the wholeness needed to get us out and can be rendered helpless.

So there is work to do, but now is the time, and the only one more separation that is needed - is from their mind back to our hearts - that is the source connection

Many blessings ~

Limor

I see those statements as the broad generalization, not a specifically targeted or absolute statement.

PERSONALLY i agree with what you wrote.

for society as a whole and the vast majority of humanity, I agree with what he wrote.

Limor Wolf

22nd July 2016, 18:15

With some of the things said in this quote I may not agree, or perheps that which underlays behind the words -

"The predator is our lord and master" - Not mine, my friend, as I have non of those. Tricking themselves into our lives via manipulation and genetic interference in our creation to supress certain things and obtain certain other (or same) things for themselves is not impressive to the least and do not align with universal laws. That is not accaptable to be done to any living being, be it human, plant or an animal, so we have things to re-learn our self.

It has rendered us docile, helpless. - When we don't have knowledge and are unware, we fall into this category, when we put our prime trust outide ourselves we are bound to give our power away. When we fail to feel connected to all there is and to one another, even if the other have suffered from those subjgations and fell pray to it - allowing it to work via them.. (but genuinely remorse and we do not accept), then we are uncapable to come back to the wholeness needed to get us out and can be rendered helpless.

So there is work to do, but now is the time, and the only one more separation that is needed - is from their mind back to our hearts - that is the source connection

Many blessings ~

Limor

I see those statements as the broad generalization, not a specifically targeted or absolute statement.

PERSONALLY i agree with what you wrote.

for society as a whole and the vast majority of humanity, I agree with what he wrote.

Deliberate generlizations. As we find out how we create and how our thoughts count, it is the relation to the whole that may want to include as many as possible. using the realism of a situation to push forward towards creation - thus finding a new way to be and to express ~

betoobig

22nd July 2016, 18:23

Castañeda did say something very similar with different words so i think this is from David Icke

DNA

22nd July 2016, 18:35

Castaneda. He was a fraud. The Idea in the quote is nonsense. Our planet, with all its evil, is an ordinary organic planetary evolution. No predators, no draco, no reptiles, just unbridled imagination. Good thread.

Regardless of what one thinks of Castaneda, I know not of anyone else on this list who has offered actual methods one could put into use in order to free up the necessary energy to open ordinarily atrophied organs of perception.
All of Castaneda's books are method based, which means he offers exercises and or practices both physical and psychological one may implement in order to increase the energy flowing through one's energy field.
Castaneda sums up all of these practices in his last book by stating that the end goal of this work is in freeing oneself from the hidden controllers of the human race. The fliers.

PurpleLama

22nd July 2016, 18:57

So 9eagle9 didn't make the list?!

DNA

22nd July 2016, 19:05

A one-question quiz for Avalonians - Identify the author and source of the quote below from the list at bottom. Please don’t use Google or another search engine, just your best guess. I am interested not just in your answers but in your comments about the quote, about the authors, and the sources listed below and related this material. I will post the answer in another post further down, so skip my next post it if you want to guess first.

We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...

... They took us over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.

... the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal.

... They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
Which one of these is the source of the quote:

Carlos Castaneda, “The Active Side of Infinity”, Don Juan Matus discussing the“Flyers” of the Toltec Shamans
Rosemary Ellen Guiley, “The Djinn Connection”, paraphrasing various 14th century Islamic scholars
G. I. Gurdjieff, talking about the cosmology that exists beyond hypnotic sleep in “Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson”
David Icke, “The Perception Deception”, discussing the nature of our “blocked” reality
John Lash, a blog post discussing the Archons in the Gnostic text “First Apocalypse of James”
Eve Lorgen, discussing experiencers and abductees in “The Universal Seduction”
H.P Lovecraft, letter,1922, to August Derleth on discussing the reality behind the Cthulhu Mythos.
Barbara Marciniak, channeling the Pleadians in “The Bringers of the Dawn”
Lana Wachowski, writing about her personal belief system as reflected in "The Matrix" trilogy of films for "The Matrix Online" blog.

So many of the folks you have listed have helped to contribute to my view of what is going on.
Not so much John Lash, that dude was just ripping off Castaneda and Gnostic principles, that dude got famous for basically cutting and pasting.
Rosemary Ellen Guiley is pretty good, but basically she bases her idea of the Djinn off of Castaneda's "inorganic beings". And personally I think she is correct in doing this, one can't help but to see similiarties in the two.
Barbara Marciniak is an out and out fraud. I've met Marciniak and through questioning she got defensive and tried to throw Billy Meier under the bus as a fraud. No, of the two Billy Meier would not be the fraud.
The Wachowski brothers were heavily influenced by Gnosticism and Castaneda.
And while on the topic of awesome Hollywood movies, "Fight Club" was heavily influenced by the philosophy of Castaneda, and a little Frank Herbert in so far as that chemical burn scene.
Eve Lorgen was influenced by Dr Karla Turner and Barbara Bartholic, but she was always influenced by the Castaneda/Gnostic cut and paste job by John Lash.
David Icke has back peddled on his assertion that the parasitic Reptilians are physical in nature and has backed off to the point of stating they are higher dimensional and not physical which is really starting to sound just like Carlos Castenada's "irorganic beings".
H.P. Lovecraft is a true genius, and I believe his works of fiction are sometimes speaking of his intuitions that may have some basis in reality, they often remind me of Michael Horner's "whale dragons", that he experienced during an Ayahousca vision. These Whale Dragons stated that they had created mankind, but a shaman told Horner that "they" always say that, what is closer to the truth is that they gave us "their" mind.
Gudjieff is the only author I've not familiarized myself with here.
I wrote a thread on these folks here "Parasitic Non-Organic Multidimensional Beings" http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings

I've practiced myself in reading spiritualist's and seeing through their BULL****, and I've got to tell you folks, Castaneda is not full of Bull****.
I've researched him, I wrote a paper debunking him in college, in the paper I had read and listed the works of all the famous debunkers. All of the Debunkers agree in their interviewing of people who have known Castaneda that Castaneda did in fact go to Mexico and Southern Arizona often in order to receive some kind of teachings, and all of them agreed, from his colleagues to his girlfriend that he would come back a changed person and that you could barely recognize the person through the span of just a couple of years.
Even his anthropologist colleagues who "knew" him refused to say anything bad about him, even though the anthropological field in general has thrown him to the meat grinder.
I'll tell you what I think folks.
I think South America and Mexico were inundated by refugees from Atlantis 12,000 years ago, and I'm of the opinion that small pockets of folks practicing the philosophies of those Atlantians have survived into our present day. I'm of the opinion that Castaneda's Don Juan Matis and his associated were one of these groups.

Ascension

22nd July 2016, 21:22

David Icke said it in one of his presentations, but don't know if he was quoting someone else.

Kryztian

22nd July 2016, 21:23

I only discovered this quote last week in a the thread "Saturn is not as it looks." (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91918-Saturn-is-not-as-it-looks.) which referenced a video of a presentation by David Icke. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKS2e3-z2js) The quotes appears in the last 15 minutes and it is indeed by Carlos Castaneda, as many of you already realized. I did look for more info on it on the internet and it is referenced in web blog posts by both Eve Lorgen and John Lash and compared to their own ideas.

I find it remarkable how this idea is found in the teachings and writings of Meso American shamans, Gnostic Christians, Zulu sangomas like Credo Mutwa, and Islamic theologians, and modern fiction writers. I don't know if the later sincerely believed in this phenomena, but there is an understanding there that happens at least on a subconscious level.

I enjoyed reading all your thoughts on this.

PurpleLama

22nd July 2016, 22:40

If you only discovered the quote last week, then you missed this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.

sommervr

22nd July 2016, 22:54

I knew it was the first one on the list. His description of giving us their mind always stuck with me considering our reptilian brain and the way society is manipulated through it.

The thing was his description of the parasite didn't jive with my understanding of biology. The parasite shouldn't reduce the host to subsistence levels early in the life cycle and just limp along the rest of the way. An evolved parasite would maximize the return over the lifetime of the host and not interfere with reproductive fitness.

Ernie Nemeth

23rd July 2016, 01:58

Recently I have been massively targeted. Electronics won't work, not phone, computer or electrical testing equipment. Today, two different mouses stopped working one after the other. Google has been the worst culprit, not allowing me any successful searches in my last ten attempts.

Seems they're awful hungry at the moment. They've triggered me a half dozen times so far in the last twenty-four hours. Not to mention the rest of the week...

But it is starting to backfire for them because although I do get mad, I am also accepting their power as a fact of this universe, which means I CAN DO IT TOO! and I have!

Don't like tests, sorry

Justplain

23rd July 2016, 02:45

DNA

23rd July 2016, 05:24

I really didnt understand how this phenomenon affected me personally until participating in an Avalon thread. Agape kept emphasing that the parasites are screwing us. I asked for inner guidance of what this meant to me personally, and then a day or two later it dawned on me that parasitic thought forms were trying to channel my thoughts, feelings, etc. into destinations where i didnt want to go. The parasitism is so bad that they infest my dreams and can concoct false messages therein to misguide me with. This discovery made me realize that i have been struggling with these inner demons my entire life. As a child i would cry myself to sleep because of the spiders clawing through my mind.

I sometimes wonder what bad karma i must have to be cursed with these parasites.

I find that calling out the parasitic thoughts and emotions as being parasitic helps dissolve them, however they keep coming back for more, so this effort is a marathon and likely till death do us part.

I was going through the huge 9eagle9 thread that was linked by Lama above.
It's an impressive thread for folks wishing to more fully understand what we are talking about. And Justplain, I ran into a post by one of this forum's greater minds Rahkyt, and I was just so blown away by how much I felt this might help to answer some things you were alluding to. It's a post with some Castaneda quotes in it, but it was just really calling for me to paste it here. Have a good day.

Greetings, Friends. I came to Casteneda when I was 14 years old, interestingly, my first summer working as a Red Cross Volunteen, back in 1982 or so, at a military hospital in Washington State. The book was just sitting on a table filled with books and magazines, staring up at me, waiting for me to pick it up. Talk about finding the cure in the place where sickness concentrates. The synchronicity of that personal discovery and the path it led me on to this day continues to amaze.

Here are some relevant quotes I'll share as I formulate a continuation and commentary on this most excellent thread. Someone earlier asked for practices and remedies. There are a few included herein, from the Toltec perspective. From Don Juan (http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan12.html):

The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline. They found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, giving to any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin. The foreign installation comes back, I assure you, but not as strong, and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine, until one day it flees permanently. A sad day indeed! That's the day when you have to rely on your own devices, which are nearly zero. There's no one to tell you what to do. There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to.

My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples that this was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life, for the real mind that belongs to us, the sum total of our experience, after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty. Personally, I would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely preparation.

Discipline taxes the foreign mind no end, so, through their discipline, sorcerers vanquish the foreign installation.

and ...

The flyers' mind flees forever when a sorcerer succeeds in grabbing on to the vibrating force that holds us together as a conglomerate of energy fields. If a sorcerer maintains that pressure long enough, the flyers' mind flees in defeat. And that's exactly what you are going to do: hold on to the energy that binds you together.

You are fearing the wrath of God, aren't you? Rest assured, that's not your fear. It's the flyers' fear, because it knows that you will do exactly as I'm telling you.

Don't worry, I know for a fact that those attacks wear off very quickly. The flyers' mind has no concentration whatsoever. You're being torn by an internal struggle. Down in the depths of you, you know that you are incapable of refusing the agreement that an indispensable part of you, your glowing coat of awareness, is going to serve as an incomprehensible source of nourishment to, naturally, incomprehensible entities. And another part of you will stand against this situation with all its might.

The sorcerers' revolution is that they refuse to honor agreements in which they did not participate. Nobody ever asked me if I would consent to be eaten by beings of a different kind of awareness. My parents just brought me into this world to be food, like themselves, and that's the end of the story.

The more you think about it, and the more you talk to and observe yourself and your fellow men, the more intense will be the conviction that something has rendered us incapable of any activity or any interaction or any thought that doesn't have the self as its focal point. Your concern, as well as the concern of everyone you know or talk to, is the self.

Somewhere else in this discussion - I can't find the quote presently - Don Juan states that everybody is a victim of the flyers/foreign installation. Everyone without exception, until they - through individualized, personal and comprehensive inner work - learn to control their minds to the extent that the Archonic force must flee as it no longer gains nourishment through invoking emotional responses with its subliminal discursive attacks. There is a danger in speaking on this topic in an arrogant manner - or any manner, for that matter - as that invites more intense attack and potential destabilization of one's life. This destablization will manifest through one's own weak points as exploited through Archonic discursive attack or through the weaknesses of loved ones, family, friends and strangers, all subject to and ruled by the Flyer's collective mind.

It is indeed like the Matrix, where everyone is potentially an Agent until they are unplugged, or that movie with Denzel Washington, Fallen, where the demon moves from person to person, using them to further its own ends. Other people can and are placed into our lives by the Foreign Installation for certain ends, often diabolical in nature from our perception of their effects.

Another source that has been brought to bear in this discussion is Laura Knight-Jadzyck and the Cassiopeans. I came to their work about 5 years ago, read her early stuff - before moving to France and achieving cult status (according to her detractors) - and found some resonance with certain ideas, such as the OPs and the Wave series of queries to the Cassiopeans. To add a couple of highlights regarding Laura Knight-Jadzyck's discussion on Organic Portals (OPs) (http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals2.htm):

It becomes clearer then why most "top scientists", in their theories, do not consider the spiritual dimension, or quickly write off any "unconventional" theories. The OP scientist (and just how many OP scientists there are is discussed further below) has no notion whatsoever of "spirit" or of the existence of higher centres. They are incapable of experiencing these higher centres, and therefore their descriptions of the world are lacking them. And because they cannot experience them, they deny their existence for everyone, including for those who are capable of "seeing" what the OP is incapable of seeing. In a materialistic world, where Organic Portals are in their Natural Element, and Souled Beings are NOT, with Organic Portal science drawing the boundary between what is true and what is false, there is no place for the Higher realms. It is "false" compared with the self-evident "truth" of materialism as experienced at all levels by the OP.

and ...

To further demonstrate the working of the organic portal scientific mind, we have the following from Francis Heylighen, a research professor at Free University of Brussels and editor of the Principia Cybernetica Project, "an international organization for the collaborative development of an evolutionary-systemic philosophy". In attempting to convince us of the mind as machine theory, he defines this very situation and gives us an insight into and description of the mind and nature of an organic portal.

In "Is there a Hard Problem of Consciousness" he writes:

First person experiences or qualia are the essentially subjective, personal feelings or experiences that each of us have (e.g. the feeling of "redness" or "cold"), and that cannot be described by words, formulas, programs or any other objective representation. According to some consciousness theorists, such as David Chalmers, an agent without such qualia would merely be a "zombie", a creature that may behave, sense and communicate just like a human being, but that would lack the most crucial aspect of consciousness. The "hard problem" of consciousness research then consists in elucidating the nature of first-person experiences.

We believe that this approach is essentially misguided. If the hypothetical zombie behaves in all respects indistinguishably from a person with consciousness, then the principle of the identity of the indistinguishable would force us to conclude that the "zombie" has consciousness. How else would we know that the people around us aren't zombies? We assume they have conscious experience similar to ourselves because they behave in all other respects similar to us. But if you would take this reasoning seriously, then you might start to get nightmarish fantasies in which you are the only real, conscious person in the world, and all the others are merely sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you.

Have you ever had this "nightmarish fantasy" that the world is populated by zombies ? Well, guess what, it isn't a fantasy. Half the people out there are exactly that: "sophisticated automatons that pretend to be like you".

It is entirely fitting that he uses the term "agent" (the Matrix movie anyone?) for the type of programmed being, "be they made from flesh and blood or silicon chips".

He goes on to say:

Agents do not sense the world as if they were impersonal, objective bystanders, that try to internally represent the world as it is, independently of themselves. For an agent a sensation is meaningful only to the degree that it relates to the agent's goals, which, in practice, means that it is relevant to the agent's individual survival.

Heylighen is describing the predator's mind. This is startlingly close to the actual real life scenarios of psychopath's behavior and thinking that are presented in Cleckely's book "The Mask of Sanity".

The author concludes :

Consciousness is not some mysterious substance, fluid, or property of matter, but a level of organization emerging from abstract processes and relations. People who search for consciousness in elementary particles (a form of panpsychism that has been suggested as a way to tackle the "hard problem"), because they cannot otherwise explain where the consciousness in our brain comes from, are misguided. Their intuition may be correct insofar that particles, just like any other system, should be seen as relations rather than just as clumps of matter. But to attribute consciousness to these extremely simple types of relations is merely a way to evade the really hard, but solvable, problem of reconstructing the complex cybernetic organization of the human mind in all its details and subtleties.

Here we have seen the Organic Portal view of themselves. Whether or not the individuals named are Organic Portals is not the issue. They may be souled individuals who have not yet been able to see behind the lie of the Personality. As long as that has not happened, souled individuals will function and see the world and themselves as if they were Organic Portals. But it is clear that this manner of "explaining" consciousness is limited, explaining only that particular form of consciousness manifested by the Personality - the exterior man. It can describe the functioning of the OP or the exterior man; it can not do justice to the consciousness of the Seeker engaged in the work of fusion to seat the soul.

I chose these particular quotes in order to reiterate a certain primary point that must not be forgotten. Everybody is infected. According to Vivek's research, that infection is potentially viral, passed down within our very genetic structure and until we each, individually, engaged in a similarly stupendous maneuver such as that Don Juan credits to the flyers, they will return, again and again, adding their baroque and subversive vitriol to the stream of discursiveness that typifies the unawakened mind, until something very specific is done in order to remedy the illness.

So the Flyers are here. They are embedded within each of us. They are whispering to us now. For those who've seen the movie, Cloud Atlas, the Flyer is exemplified by the past-life avataric representation the bedevils Tom Hank's character in the futuristic sketch, constantly whispering to him, evoking gloom and doom, fear and loathing. The flyers are that little voice that whispers to you that you are fat and ugly, skinny and retarded, that you'll never be as smart or as successful as your brother or sister, that everybody's laughing at you behind your back, that you need what someone else has got, that you hate or that you love, all designed as tools to further compromise your sovereignty as an ensouled human being and make you dependent upon and beholden to their thoughts, their mind.

They are not in it for your success. Their final triumph is your death and that last devouring of your luminous egg, which must be like sipping the finest wine for them in satisfaction and intensity. They do not want an end to the drama, as 9e9 has reiterated, they want intensification and for you to go that final distance to total material and spiritual perversion.

Perhaps a large part of the reason that threads like this are so lightly populated is that when reading them, people recognize their own compromised state and so feel unqualified, or afraid, to speak out. They may recognize that they are on one side of the bell curve rather than the other, and decide not to speak because of the personal anguish that might cause. I encourage those in this category to speak on your experiences. Since you are here, reading these words, you are obviously in a space to do something about it, to work on your own compromised state, to achieve a higher form of consciousness. No matter our state of being, we share incarnation and all experiences are valid and meaningful.

The OP aspect is included in order to emphasize the fact that within this Archonic super-structure of culture and institutionalized hierarchical full-spectrum domination, any adherence to structure can be interpreted as an Archonic invasion. And that some individuals are more prone to adhering to the externally-applied structure they represent than others. Any referential aside that includes power relations stemming from personal or institutional sources is the Foreign Installation insinuating itself within the situation. This applies in any situation where two or more people are gathered, or even in an individual situation when you find yourself complying with the directives of your mind - expressed through inner dialogue, an actual conversation with yourself, even - to create some sort of unnecessary-but-mandatory order in your current endeavor, whether that endeavor is washing the dishes or walking without stepping on the sidewalk lines.

Since half of the world's population is non-souled from this perspective and at least 45% of the rest have nominally made themselves that way by complying with the cultural instructions received since birth, resulting in the darkening of their own personal bioluminesence, practically everybody that you talk to, including most of us here, is compromised to a greater or lesser extent, depending upon their own personal work and observed and intuited behavior modifications. Souled individuals that take on sociopathic behavior in order to 'fit in' or succeed in systemic integration suffer the consequences of their actions commiserate with their nature. Non-souled individuals are expressing their natural state of being. The system is everything to one of these groups, to the other, it is an insufferable imposition. But it must be remembered that the gradient is a bell curve, and therefore, its expression is gradual between two very different extremes.

Is this fear-mongering? No. Is this paranoia? No. It is a dispassionate observation based upon a position gleaned from experience personal and collective. Experience that we all have, should we choose to examine it in-depth. By in-depth, I mean the recapitulation process, as described also by Don Juan to Carlos Casteneda. The recapitulation process is not the ordinary rumination that we generally engage in when dwelling upon events of the past. It is a very specific practice designed to clarify a life in preparation for leaving it behind and become clear, what other traditions have called enlightened and no longer prey to the depredations of the Flyers/Archons/Asuras/Foreign Installation.

There is an enormous premium on time. For sorcerers in general, time is of the essence. The challenge I am faced with is that in a very compact unit of time I must cram into you everything there is to know about sorcery as an abstract proposition, but in order to do that I have to build the necessary space in you.

The premise of sorcerers is that in order to bring something in, there must be a space to put it in. If you are filled to the brim with the items of everyday life, there's no space for anything new. That space must be built. Do you see what I mean? The sorcerers of olden times believed that the recapitulation of your life made the space. It does, and much more, of course.

The way sorcerers perform the recapitulation is very formal. It consists of writing a list of all the people they have met, from the present to the very beginning of their lives. Once they have that list, they take the first person on it and recollect everything they can about that person. And I mean everything, every detail. It's better to recapitulate from the present to the past, because the memories of the present are fresh, and in this manner, the recollection ability is honed. What practitioners do is to recollect and breathe. They inhale slowly and deliberately, fanning the head from right to left, in a barely noticeable swing, and exhale in the same fashion.

The inhalations and exhalations should be natural; if they are too rapid, one enters into something called tiring breaths: breaths that require slower breathing afterward in order to calm down the muscles.

Begin making your list today. Divide it by years, by occupations, arrange it in any order you want to, but make it sequential, with the most recent person first, and end with Mommy and Daddy. And then, remember everything about them. No more ado than that. As you practice, you will realize what you're doing.

and ...

The power of the recapitulation is that it stirs up all the garbage of our lives and brings it to the surface.

I'm going to delineate the intricacies of awareness and perception, which are the basis of the recapitulation. I am going to present an arrangement of concepts that you should not take as sorcerers' theories under any conditions, because it is an arrangement formulated by the shamans of ancient Mexico as a result of seeing energy directly as it flows in the universe. I will present the units of this arrangement to you without any attempt at classifying them or ranking them by any predetermined standard.

I'm not interested in classifications. You have been classifying everything all your life. Now you are going to be forced to stay away from classifications. Classifications have a world of their own. After you begin to classify anything, the classification becomes alive, and it rules you. But since classifications never started as energy-giving affairs, they always remain like dead logs. They are not trees; they are merely logs.

The sorcerers of ancient Mexico saw that the universe at large is composed of energy fields in the form of luminous filaments. They saw zillions of them, wherever they turned to see. They also saw that those energy fields arranged themselves into currents of luminous fibers, streams that are constant, perennial forces in the universe. The current or stream of filaments that is related to the recapitulation was named by those sorcerers the dark sea of awareness, and also the Eagle.

Those sorcerers also found out that every creature in the universe is attached to the dark sea of awareness at a round point of luminosity that was apparent when those creatures were perceived as energy. On that point of luminosity, which the sorcerers of ancient Mexico called the assemblage point of human beings, zillions of energy fields from the universe at large, in the form of luminous filaments, converge and go through it. These energy fields are converted into sensory data, and the sensory data is then interpreted and perceived as the world we know. What turns the luminous fibers into sensory data is the dark sea of awareness. Sorcerers see this transformation and call it the glow of awareness, a sheen that extends like a halo around the assemblage point. I'm going to make a statement which, in the understanding of sorcerers, is central to comprehending the scope of the recapitulation.

What we call the senses in organisms is nothing but degrees of awareness. If we accept that the senses are the dark sea of awareness, we have to admit that the interpretation that the senses make of sensory data is also the dark sea of awareness. To face the world around us in the terms that we do is the result of the interpretation system of mankind with which every human being is equipped. Every organism in existence has to have an interpretation system that permits it to function in its surrounding.

The old sorcerers saw that at the moment of death, the dark sea of awareness sucked in, so to speak, through the assemblage point, the awareness of living creatures. They also saw that the dark sea of awareness had a moment's, let's say, hesitation when it was faced with sorcerers who had done a recounting of their lives. Unbeknownst to them, some had done it so thoroughly that the dark sea of awareness took their awareness in the form of their life experiences, but didn't touch their life force. Sorcerers had found out a gigantic truth about the forces of the universe: the dark sea of awareness wants only our life experiences, not our life force.

Sorcerers believe that as we recapitulate our lives, all the debris, as I told you, comes to the surface. We realize our inconsistencies, our repetitions, but something in us puts up a tremendous resistance to recapitulating. Sorcerers say that the road is free only after a gigantic upheaval, after the appearance on our screen of the memory of an event that shakes our foundations with its terrifying clarity of detail. It's the event that drags us to the actual moment that we lived it. Sorcerers call that event the usher, because from then on every event we touch on is relived, not merely remembered.

Walking is always something that precipitates memories. The sorcerers of ancient Mexico believed that everything we live we store as a sensation on the backs of the legs. They considered the backs of the legs to be the warehouse of man's personal history.

Walking will have you ready to begin this sorcerers' maneuver of finding an usher: an event in your life that you will remember with such clarity that it will serve as a spotlight to illuminate everything else in your recapitulation with the same, or comparable, clarity. Do what sorcerers call recapitulating pieces of a puzzle. Something will lead you to remember the event that will serve as your usher. Give it your best shot; do your best.

While we may not hold many of the same beliefs that are expressed above, the base idea remains salient. The instructions, while being very specific and subject to modification, are also salient. Only half of the population of the planet are able to get this. To do it. That is disturbing only to the extent that we generalize about the nature of humanity, assigning personal characteristics that continue to be patently unobserveable in the behavior patterns of the general populace. And the majority of that half is under the spell of the Foreign Installation right this moment. Even those of us who are awake, those who gather and discuss here included, continue to experiences instances where our discursiveness immediately informs us that we have a Flyer infiltration. The moment when we question someone's motives in writing a post, or in their disagreement with our point, or in our wondering what their motive was, or in our attempts to set others up in writing when we already have an answer set in our minds. This is all infiltration, to the extent that we apply emotional weight to it and it colors our perception and resultant thoughts, words and actions.

The natural state of humanity, as exemplified by the innocence of babies and young children, is one of openness, of living in the Now, of clarity of thought, direct honesty and joy. As the Flyer takes over, as their cloak of control darkens our luminescence, we grow increasingly more dense, concentrated, baroque. We then interact almost exclusively within the parameters of the emotional body - with just enough mental body suggestion to initiate the amygdala/hypothalamus-borne fueling of our next attack or defense - pinging each other like medieval puppets on strings while the ultra-dimensional overlords feed on our weaknesses and compliance with their directives. And we think they're our thoughts. That our patterns are our own, individualized, personal. They are not. Clarity of mind as an original state of Being is our birthright.

The thoughts that constantly run through our minds, seemingly coming from elsewhere, are.

Thanks for another great thread, 9e9, adding to the collection of such that have been percolating here in recent weeks. This is indeed, as Don Juan stated, the topic of topics. It is a credit to the site that we have been able to reach a space where such a disturbing topic can be discussed rationally and consistently without the emotional disruptions that we had come to get used to in years past.

OopsWrongPlanet?

23rd July 2016, 05:52

This is a great thread, Krystian, opening up for those of us newer to this type of research (only a couple of years in my case) these topics and various possible interpretational approaches to them. I have recently been looking into John Lamb Lash's 'Not In His Image' and Mauro Biglino's 'The Book That Will Forever Change Your Ideas About the Bible', and a bigger-picture perspective is emerging which makes sense, one very much in tune with the quote you gave. Maybe time to revisit Carlos Castaneda, after years ago reading him in a slightly different context.

Amidst all the huffing and puffing in today's world, to-ing and fro-ing, running in all directions shouting 'we're all screwed' (a quote by one well-known UK interviewer and researcher at the end of his conference speech which made me laugh so loud), it's helpful to stand back a little and let the broader picture emerge.

M

Daughter of Time

23rd July 2016, 06:21

I've read all of Castaneda's works and I remember reading those words in one of his books. It was a long time ago so I'd almost forgotten.

Recently I was reminded of those words by David Icke who, in one of his videos, quoted Castaneda on the cosmic predators.

Matthew

23rd July 2016, 07:18

Incidentally David Paulides quoted Lovecraft this year in this youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhz1FMtMJJs) (10m 28s). I am a big fan of Lovecrafts stories myself. Although Lovecraft was a Cosmic Horror story writer so the emphasis was on helplessness and insignificance. Regarding the archons the less time we dwell on being helpless and frightened the better

:heart: :muscle: :star:

dim

23rd July 2016, 08:33

True, but still half.
Gives the inner warrior the subtle excuse it needs to go witch hunting for lifetimes,
scapegoating the predator for all the misery in the world.
And it's true, a legit blaming.
But it doesn't go anywhere and after a while - a quite awhile, we become tired
and this tiredness, this battle weariness compels us to go within
the only place the other half of the truth can be found.

Lifebringer

23rd July 2016, 15:23

"Apocrypha of James?" I'm about to embark on researching this today, in search of our Creator's will at this time(His day of rest and praise) See if the people back then, were suffering our same fate.
What was the true creator's way and all truths told by Christ. I believe He was a rebel against untruths in the Heavenly Creator's name. Wouldn't surprise me if it's Christ's earthly brother James. Yahaya must have confided in his brother, when he was teaching.
Just found confirmation of being of the Hebrew tribe, might find more about us. They never speak of us in the churches? Why? It's like it's forbidden to speak of God's children being redeemed and forgiven. Well all of his human children must pull together in love and understanding the why's of one's differences in cultures.
The truths must be told, so the future is no lie.

TargeT

23rd July 2016, 17:13

If you only discovered the quote last week, then you missed this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.

I was going through the huge 9eagle9 thread that was linked by Lama above.
It's an impressive thread for folks wishing to more fully understand what we are talking about. And Justplain, I ran into a post by one of this forum's greater minds Rahkyt, and I was just so blown away by how much I felt this might help to answer some things you were alluding to. It's a post with some Castaneda quotes in it, but it was just really calling for me to paste it here. Have a good day.

One of my favorite threads on the forum and and one of my favorite past posters.

I feel like I've picked up a small corner of the mantel that 9eagle9 held up while here.

Justplain

23rd July 2016, 17:26

Thanks, Kryztian for the thread, and DNA for the reponse to my earlier post. From my perspective, the 'flyers' as invaders of the mind/emotional body are a fact. When discussing when he became enlightened, Ekhart Tolle describes how the chatter in his mind finally lost its dominance, that his awareness took precedence and his connection to deeper experience and understanding became the norm. I believe this mind chatter is caused by the archon flyers.

I have been through a battle with these inner demons for my entire life. I believe when you choose to reconstruct your value system based upon empathy, this is a way of dislodging the flyers. It seems to me that this has to be a conscious process. As a child i remember consciously learning correct ways of thinking and behaving, not based on fear but in a desire to get along with others. This also dislodges the parasitic agenda that causes us stress and disorder.

The parasites are extremely clever, if you ever watch the machinations that go on in your mind you can get an idea. Sociopathic behaviour can be extremely complex and clever. By silencing the mind one can vanquish the parasites, as is evidenced by the wide use of meditation to enhance consciousness. I find that using the yogic method of listening to one's breath helps when going to sleep.

Saying that one's most difficulty is after the flyers are vanquished, when the real mind is free and may be quite frail, is an interesting point. I am not there yet, and i would be surprised if i get there in this life, but calming the mind is a worthy goal that i will continue to endeavour to do. All in a days work. :-)

TargeT

23rd July 2016, 17:34

DNA

23rd July 2016, 18:08

I believe when you choose to reconstruct your value system based upon empathy, this is a way of dislodging the flyers. It seems to me that this has to be a conscious process. As a child i remember consciously learning correct ways of thinking and behaving, not based on fear but in a desire to get along with others. This also dislodges the parasitic agenda that causes us stress and disorder.

As you hint at, even empathy can be corrupted when it's based in fear...

And I don't think they ever go away or get dislodged, it is A PART of us; something that will always be there.. like alcoholism i guess... your always an alcoholic, forever... because it's (at least partly) mental issue...... & they are a part of our mind.

I think their favorite state for humanity is in strong emotion, anger or fear or any of that spectrum (greed, jealousy.. all that)... in those states I think control slips in "their mind"s direction..

anyway; I said that to say this: it's a constant battle, always be vigilant.

Empathy indeed can be a state that is not desired. I'm of the opinion that sociopaths are not the result of archon infestation, that sociopaths are natural souls with little or no empathy. You do not need empathy to be a good person, and in fact empathy can take the place of action, and in many times this is a negative thing.
I have a good friend who is a sociopath. He is the most charming, positive minded chatty person you have ever met. He has an aura that is contagious. There is a reason for his aura being contagious, rather than constantly "receiving" transmissions, he is "sending" transmissions, and he will overtake your current emotional state and replace it with his own, it's amazing to watch really.
His main maneuver is to replace your self doubt with his amazing belief in his self. I've seen him do it, I've seen folks drop their folded arms and fall under his spell.

The Castaneda books state repeatedly that one needs detachment before and above all.
This means controlling your energy and not allowing yourself to get sucked into the petty dramas.
9eagel9 was always pointing out the poor me's on the thread who were playing the role of the victim and seeking to bath in the sympathy and empathy of the forum.
She was mostly correct in this, but she took it too far.
Rather than calling the person out and creating a public drama, she herself should have attempted to practice detachment.
9's need to call people out was a drama in and of itself. It's the role of the inquisitioner. I've told her this more than once and she refuses to acknowledge this.

Castaneda basically stated everything from the "Celestine Prophecy" books before they were written by James Redfield.
Detachment isn't cruelty, it isn't coldness, it's refusing to be emotionally tricked into giving your energy away.
That is all.
You can feel empathy and emotion and you can give it to those in your life of whom you want, but it helps if you can stop those from who would attempt to emotionally manipulate you into giving your energy/power away.

Justplain

23rd July 2016, 19:00

Empathy indeed can be a state that is not desired. I'm of the opinion that sociopaths are not the result of archon infestation, that sociopaths are natural souls with little or no empathy. ...

The Castaneda books state repeatedly that one needs detachment before and above all.
This means controlling your energy and not allowing yourself to get sucked into the petty dramas. ...
Castaneda basically stated everything from the "Celestine Prophecy" books before they were written by James Redfield.
Detachment isn't cruelty, it isn't coldness, it's refusing to be emotionally tricked into giving your energy away.
That is all.
You can feel empathy and emotion and you can give it to those in your life of whom you want, but it helps if you can stop those from who would attempt to emotionally manipulate you into giving your energy/power away.

Hi DNA,

Where Casteneda/don Juan lost me, in the 'Ring of Power' i believe is the fourth book, was where sorcerers were willing to kill each other for power. The emphasis on power in this tradition turned me off. It caused me to seek another path.

There are thousands of examples currently and historically of people who find peace on the path to enlightenment (ie. freedom from parasitic mind manipulation) following the path of love, or empathy. Here is an online definition of 'empathy': 'the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.'. This is different from 'sympathy': 'feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.'. Pity is not empathetic. When one understands and can comprehend another's experience, this opens the door for compassion, the key to our new age.

I am not too concerned about others stealing my power or energy, i would forgive them if they tried or did. I am concerned about freeing myself from manipulation and appreciating this gift of life i've been given. Empathy enhances my comprehension, that at the root we are all one in the blessed eternal.

Ernie Nemeth

23rd July 2016, 19:21

I am not sure why but 9eagle9 helped me once in a most unusual fashion. I have only respect for her.

I watched her change. I did not understand it. I thought she was loosing it. She stopped communicating with me. As a few others did as well.

I still don't understand it but I feel it. Now if I could only interpret it with my "right" mind...

My internal dialog is abysmal. If I do not keep it occupied with reading, movies, writing and mental projects it starts right in where it left off, not missing a beat. It tears through my mind, devastating everything I hold dear. And as I watch I become it, believing it, taking over the dialog myself. Until I catch myself and breath. Until I correct my mind. But the damage is done by then, and the healing is only temporary. Soon I will start again to "prove" my "wrong" mind "right" again. It is very convincing, with its lies that protect my own inaction and hides my own hand in my drama. It is easy to agree, easier to join in. "Right" thinking requires "right" action - and that is often perceived as "difficult" because I might have to be "wrong". I don't like to be wrong.

I miss her. She was a good friend. I miss a lot of people here, actually. Some still here, some long gone.

I miss my family too. I shouldn't want to alienate them, they are family. But I do and I plan to make it worse. Well, not me, but since I know better, it is me, isn't it?

Lately, people have shown me examples of forgiveness and true empathy. I wish to remember the kindness and be grateful but most I wish to remember that I moved myself in that direction to be in a place where I could be forgiven, and that I could forgive. This sort of experience I could take more of. I surprisingly make more of an impact on people than I had realized, far more. Maybe my family feels the same way. Maybe they miss me too.

The current storm is over. My mind is still again.

Peace

petra

23rd July 2016, 19:22

I have been through a battle with these inner demons for my entire life. I believe when you choose to reconstruct your value system based upon empathy, this is a way of dislodging the flyers. It seems to me that this has to be a conscious process. As a child i remember consciously learning correct ways of thinking and behaving, not based on fear but in a desire to get along with others. This also dislodges the parasitic agenda that causes us stress and disorder.

The parasites are extremely clever, if you ever watch the machinations that go on in your mind you can get an idea. Sociopathic behaviour can be extremely complex and clever. By silencing the mind one can vanquish the parasites, as is evidenced by the wide use of meditation to enhance consciousness. I find that using the yogic method of listening to one's breath helps when going to sleep.

I agree with you completely Justplain! And to further illustrate, today I had to struggle to say the word "co-operate"! It was like the word was caught in my mind, unable to get out. But I can say it now! CO-OPERATION :D

onawah

23rd July 2016, 20:10

This deserves a :bump: Castenada's books had a huge effect on me and on so many others of my generation.
I think Don Juan was also holding classes for Castenada's readers on the inner planes or something, because that information was more real to me than any other books I can think of, and it became a real part of me.
It really didn't make a lot of difference to me whether he really existed on this plane or not because the information rang so true. But I've heard enough testimonies from people who knew Castaneda and believed him to be the real deal that I have no doubts at all that Don Juan was a real person, and a very, very wise man.

A one-question quiz for Avalonians - Identify the author and source of the quote below from the list at bottom. Please don’t use Google or another search engine, just your best guess. I am interested not just in your answers but in your comments about the quote, about the authors, and the sources listed below and related this material. I will post the answer in another post further down, so skip my next post it if you want to guess first.

We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...

... They took us over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.

... the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal.

... They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
Which one of these is the source of the quote:

Carlos Castaneda, “The Active Side of Infinity”, Don Juan Matus discussing the“Flyers” of the Toltec Shamans
Rosemary Ellen Guiley, “The Djinn Connection”, paraphrasing various 14th century Islamic scholars
G. I. Gurdjieff, talking about the cosmology that exists beyond hypnotic sleep in “Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson”
David Icke, “The Perception Deception”, discussing the nature of our “blocked” reality
John Lash, a blog post discussing the Archons in the Gnostic text “First Apocalypse of James”
Eve Lorgen, discussing experiencers and abductees in “The Universal Seduction”
H.P Lovecraft, letter,1922, to August Derleth on discussing the reality behind the Cthulhu Mythos.
Barbara Marciniak, channeling the Pleadians in “The Bringers of the Dawn”
Lana Wachowski, writing about her personal belief system as reflected in "The Matrix" trilogy of films for "The Matrix Online" blog.

So many of the folks you have listed have helped to contribute to my view of what is going on.
Not so much John Lash, that dude was just ripping off Castaneda and Gnostic principles, that dude got famous for basically cutting and pasting.
Rosemary Ellen Guiley is pretty good, but basically she bases her idea of the Djinn off of Castaneda's "inorganic beings". And personally I think she is correct in doing this, one can't help but to see similiarties in the two.
Barbara Marciniak is an out and out fraud. I've met Marciniak and through questioning she got defensive and tried to throw Billy Meier under the bus as a fraud. No, of the two Billy Meier would not be the fraud.
The Wachowski brothers were heavily influenced by Gnosticism and Castaneda.
And while on the topic of awesome Hollywood movies, "Fight Club" was heavily influenced by the philosophy of Castaneda, and a little Frank Herbert in so far as that chemical burn scene.
Eve Lorgen was influenced by Dr Karla Turner and Barbara Bartholic, but she was always influenced by the Castaneda/Gnostic cut and paste job by John Lash.
David Icke has back peddled on his assertion that the parasitic Reptilians are physical in nature and has backed off to the point of stating they are higher dimensional and not physical which is really starting to sound just like Carlos Castenada's "irorganic beings".
H.P. Lovecraft is a true genius, and I believe his works of fiction are sometimes speaking of his intuitions that may have some basis in reality, they often remind me of Michael Horner's "whale dragons", that he experienced during an Ayahousca vision. These Whale Dragons stated that they had created mankind, but a shaman told Horner that "they" always say that, what is closer to the truth is that they gave us "their" mind.
Gudjieff is the only author I've not familiarized myself with here.
I wrote a thread on these folks here "Parasitic Non-Organic Multidimensional Beings" http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings

I've practiced myself in reading spiritualist's and seeing through their BULL****, and I've got to tell you folks, Castaneda is not full of Bull****.
I've researched him, I wrote a paper debunking him in college, in the paper I had read and listed the works of all the famous debunkers. All of the Debunkers agree in their interviewing of people who have known Castaneda that Castaneda did in fact go to Mexico and Southern Arizona often in order to receive some kind of teachings, and all of them agreed, from his colleagues to his girlfriend that he would come back a changed person and that you could barely recognize the person through the span of just a couple of years.
Even his anthropologist colleagues who "knew" him refused to say anything bad about him, even though the anthropological field in general has thrown him to the meat grinder.
I'll tell you what I think folks.
I think South America and Mexico were inundated by refugees from Atlantis 12,000 years ago, and I'm of the opinion that small pockets of folks practicing the philosophies of those Atlantians have survived into our present day. I'm of the opinion that Castaneda's Don Juan Matis and his associated were one of these groups.

DNA

23rd July 2016, 22:15

Hi DNA,

Where Casteneda/don Juan lost me, in the 'Ring of Power' i believe is the fourth book, was where sorcerers were willing to kill each other for power. The emphasis on power in this tradition turned me off. It caused me to seek another path.

Dona Soledad and the Little Sisters.
Yes I remember this story well. I loved this book.
What you have to remember is there were extenuating circumstances here.
Don Juan and Don Genaro had trained Carlos to be the Naguel of the group they were leaving behind.
Don Juan and Don Genaro were benefactors to a group of people they were training in order so that their knowledge could continue after they were gone.
Late in the training of Carlos and the men and women who made up his group it was "seen" that Carlos was a three pronged naguel, and this was not a good thing. Everything revolved around a four pronged Naguel, the energetics were not conducive for Carlos to lead this group, and as such the group was now without a Nagual.
A Nagual being a natural born leader with a certain energetic configuration.
The sociopath I talked about in my previous post was a natural born Nagual.
I state this as part of my own belief that sociopaths are a certain soul type, and not all of them are bad.
Rather than dwell on their lack of empathy, it is their natural fire that burns within them altering those who enter their personal atmosphere.

So why did Dona Soledad and the Little Sisters want to kill Castaneda?
Because he had received a piece of the sorcerer's gift that was supposed to live on in the sorcerors party, and this now was no longer going to happen since Castaneda was no longer a member of the Nagual Don Juan's apprentice party.

Let us agree that the soul lives within an egg like shell, a cocoon of sorts.
This cocoon has layers to it.
These layers are not in great shape as far as you and me, but, for an impeccable warrior on the warrior's path, these shells are amazing acquisitions, and here is the part most folks don't really understand.
These shells die when the immortal soul moves on from the body.
In the case of Castaneda, he had inherited a portion of the Nagual Don Juan's energy body, and Don Juan had inherited a part of the Nagual Julian's energy body, and this list goes back thousands of years. So when one attains the mastery it is stated that Don Juan has reached, he can parcel out pieces of his energy body as he leaves this plane of existence, and he can leave it to whom he wants to have it.
Here is an illustration to help show what we are talking about here.

The Taittiriya Upanishad describes the five affected bodies with which our untouchable immortal soul resides.

1. Anna Maya Kosha: The body made of physical matter

2. Prana Maya Kosha: The body made of vital energy

3. Mano Maya Kosha: The body of thought energy

4. Vijnana Maya Kosha: The body of higher intelligence

5. Ananda Maya Kosha: The body of mystical awareness

http://lieske.com/images/aura.gif

Castaneda never lists these subtle energy bodies, but I personally feel they are the same Hinduism describes.
Castaneda, by being a "mistake" was going to take his portion of the sorcerors "gift" with him, Dona Soledad and the little sisters wanted this "gift" to stay within the lineage so to speak.

But,,,,
Don Juan was adamant that the omens chose Carlos for a reason.
And being as Carlos has written down what he felt were the most important aspects of his teachings, I feel that his training will in fact live on due to what he has created with his books.

ponda

24th July 2016, 00:02

Interesting DNA.

These subtle energies/auras might be a source of energy for other entities/parasites/predators

Biff

24th July 2016, 02:30

Mike Gorman

24th July 2016, 03:15

Ignorance creates imaginings, fear - the shadows on the cave wall can seem terrifying, alluding to all kinds of predatory creatures, alluded-to threats, veiled pronouncements. Our uncertainty generates speculation, presents opportunity for Ego maniacs to take advantage of the circumstances. This is the dark shadow land of ignorance, the light of reason, of research and probing into the dark is our path - the first cause is Light, the creative matrix of our universe from which all else is generated. Seek the first cause, allow the light to do its work.

ALLiTiZ

24th July 2016, 03:50

Carlos Castaneda "The Teachings of Don Juan"

ponda

24th July 2016, 05:26

RunningDeer

24th July 2016, 12:13

One of my favourite Castenada/Don Juan quotes is the one mentioned in the opening post:

"They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.”

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/416leC01c%2BL._SX358_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Thanks, panda. :thumb:

The Ordinary Side of Infinity

"Ordinarily, events that change our path are impersonal affairs, and yet extremely personal. My teacher, don Juan Matsus, said this is guiding me as his apprentice to collect what I considered to be the memorable events of my life…. Don Juan described the total goal of the shamanistic knowledge that he handled as the preparation for facing the definitive journey: the journey that every human being has to take at the end of his life. He said that what modern man referred to vaguely as life after death was, for those shamans, a concrete region filled to capacity with practical affairs of a different order than the practical affairs of daily life, yet bearing a similar functional practicality. Don Juan considered that to collect the memorable in their lives was, for shamans, the preparation for their entrance into that concrete region, which they called the active side of infinity."

There are eight download options (https://archive.org/details/CarlosCastaneda) for the following:

1968 - The Teachings of Don Juan
1971 - Separate Reality
1972 - Journey to Ixtlan
1974 - Tales of Power
1977 - The Second Ring of Power
1981 - Eagle's Gift
1984 - The Fire From Within
1987 - The Power of Silence
1993 - The Art of Dreaming
1999 - The Active Side of Infinity
( compendium ) 1998 - Magical Passes
( compendium ) 2000 - The Wheel of Time

Justplain

24th July 2016, 16:37

"So why did Dona Soledad and the Little Sisters want to kill Castaneda?
Because he had received a piece of the sorcerer's gift that was supposed to live on in the sorcerors party, and this now was no longer going to happen since Castaneda was no longer a member of the Nagual Don Juan's apprentice party"

Hi DNA,

I loved reading Castneda's first three books, they opened possibilities that i had never been exposed to before. They expressed a communion with consciousness and nature that was quite literally 'magical'. They identified that all things have consciosness, which i believe to be true. When don Genaro told Carlos that 'all we are is a feeling', that rang true. Those first three books were profound to me.

However, with the Tales of Power book, i could no not fathom that such a beautiful philosophy could degenerate into assasination attempts for spiritual power. Even if Dona Soledad was trying to preserve their group of sorcerers, i still cant see the acceptability of murder as a means of doing so. I know the Apache First Nation believed in warriors gaining spiritual power through torturing and murdering their enemies. The 'Highlander' movie series was about this type of power struggle, and in the end they were all killed except one, fine result! Power is not that important. Civilization is a mechanism to try to prevent the need for such behaviour.

As a result of my reaction to 'Tales of Power', i did not read any more Castaneda books and stopped practicing most of don Juan's techniques, except those which had become habit. Mostly i fell back into occasional church attendance for spiritual sustenance, though going off into my own unorthodox christian mode.

More recently i read Newman's 'Journey of Souls' and Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi'. I have always believed in the after life. I have believed in reincarnation for decades as i have met several people who recall past lives, although i myself have no recall. Yogananda's descriptions of bilocation, telepathy and telekinesis that the East Indian yogis could do, reminded me of Castaneda's descriptions, and this acted as a corroboration of don Juan's methodology as having some legitimacy.

The eastern mystics use meditation, fasting and yoga exercises to tame the flyers. They do this in a non violent way. A very civilized way. Some yogi's may live in isolation, but some, like those of kriya yoga such as Lahiri Mahasaya, have families and still attain great spiritual development. There is little concern for 'power' in the eastern tradition. This is the route i follow, more or less. I may use some of don Juan's techniques, such as self awareness exercises and life recapitulation, but i will stay away from it for the most part. No need to fight over Naguals.

Andre

24th July 2016, 23:42

Fascinating thread full of interesting avenues of further research and contemplation.

I will add that we have to be very careful that we don't fall into the trap of blaming our personal neurosis and shortcomings on any external power because it is always a convenient way to avoid taking full responsibility for our own growth, e.g. they made me do it or I am the way I am because of them or they are all around us so what hope is there. While there may be lots of "them" looking for compromised energy fields to feed on, i.e. flyers, archons, astral parasites and so forth, I believe it's important to remember that we all have the power to delete that influence from our consciousness utterly and completely through the many different spiritual practices that are available to us these days that in past centuries were hidden and reserved for only the most advanced adepts. in one sense, this is the essence of the Shift of Ages and teachers like Castenada always try to convey our inherent personal power, so this may be nothing new to many readers here.

Johnny

25th July 2016, 01:23

"The flyers' advantage stems from the difference between our levels of awareness. They
are very powerful and vast entities; the idea that we have of them is equivalent to the one
an ant will have of us.

"However, their presence is painful and you can measure it in various ways. For example,
when they provoke us into attacks of rationality or distrust, or when we are tempted to
violate our own decisions. Lunatics can detect them very easily - too easily, I would say -
since they feel physically how these beings settle on their shoulders, generating paranoia.
Suicide is the stamp of flyers, because the flyers' mind is potentially homicidal."

"You say that it is an exchange, but what do we gain from such plunder?"

"In exchange for our energy, the flyers have given us our mind, our attachments, and our
ego. For them, we are not their slaves, but a kind of salaried workers. They bestowed
these privileges on a primitive race and gave us the gift of thinking, which made us
evolve; indeed, they have civilized us. If not for them, we would still be hiding in caves
or making nests on treetops.

"The flyers control us through our traditions and customs. They are the masters of
religion, the creators of history. We hear their voice on the radio and we read their ideas
in the newspapers. They manage all our means of information, and our belief systems.
Their strategy is magnificent. For example, there was an honest man who spoke of love
and freedom; they have transformed it into self-pity and servility. They do it with
everyone, even with naguals. For that reason, the work of a sorcerer is solitary.

"For millennia, flyers have concocted plans to collectivize us. There was a time when
they became so shameless that they were even seen in public, and people made
representations of them in stone. Those were dark times; they were everywhere. But now
their strategy has become so intelligent that we don't even know they exist. In the past,
they hooked us through our credulity, today, through our materialism. They are
responsible for modern man's ambition not to have to think for himself; just observe how
long somebody will tolerate silence!"

"Why the change in their strategy?"

"Because, at this time, they are running a great risk. Humanity is in very quick and
constant contact, and information can reach anyone. Either they must fill our heads,
bombarding us day and night with all kind of suggestions, or there will be some who will
realize and warn the others."

"What would happen if we were able to repel those entities?"

Quote from Armando Torres's book Encounters With The Nagual http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9462-Interesting-Free-Books-in-PDF&p=1084183&viewfull=1#post1084183

IMO Carlos Castaneda is all about FREEDOM !

Johnny :)

Johnny

5th August 2016, 09:58

........
The Castaneda books state repeatedly that one needs detachment before and above all.
This means controlling your energy and not allowing yourself to get sucked into the petty dramas.
9eagel9 was always pointing out the poor me's on the thread who were playing the role of the victim and seeking to bath in the sympathy and empathy of the forum.
She was mostly correct in this, but she took it too far.
Rather than calling the person out and creating a public drama, she herself should have attempted to practice detachment.
9's need to call people out was a drama in and of itself. It's the role of the inquisitioner. I've told her this more than once and she refuses to acknowledge this.

Castaneda basically stated everything from the "Celestine Prophecy" books before they were written by James Redfield.
Detachment isn't cruelty, it isn't coldness, it's refusing to be emotionally tricked into giving your energy away.
That is all.
You can feel empathy and emotion and you can give it to those in your life of whom you want, but it helps if you can stop those from who would attempt to emotionally manipulate you into giving your energy/power away.

Sorry this late response, but I came away from it. I did not follow 9e9's post very much, but I do remember some of them as very good.

From what you describe it seems to me as she has hit what Don Juan call the 2. enemy:

"And thus he has encountered his second enemy: Clarity! That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain,dispels fear, but also blinds.

"It forces the man never to doubt himself. It gives him the assurance he can do anything he pleases, for he
sees clearly into everything. And he is courageous because he is clear, and he stops at nothing because he is
clear. But all that is a mistake; it is like something incomplete. If the man yields to this make-believe power, he
has succumbed to his second enemy and will fumble with learning. He will rush when he should be patient, or he
will be patient when he should rush. And he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learning
anything more."

"What becomes of a man who is defeated in that way, don Juan? Does he die as a result?"

"No, he doesn't die. His second enemy has just stopped him cold from trying to become a man of
knowledge; instead, the man may turn into a buoyant warrior, or a clown. Yet the clarity for which he has paid
so dearly will never change to darkness and fear again. He will be clear as long as he lives, but he will no longer
learn, or yearn for anything."

"But what does he have to do to avoid being defeated?"

"He must do what he did with fear: he must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and
measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a
moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes. And thus he will
have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him any more. This will
not be a mistake. It will not be only a point before his eyes. It will be true power.

"He will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. He can do with it
whatever he pleases. His ally is at his command. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him. But he has
also come across his third enemy: Power!

Quote from the first book: 'The Teachings of Don Juan' page 35

IMO the way to defeat the 2. enemy is to see that you are seeing, and that that 'is all'.

(and for those who don't know it, there is a huge difference between looking and seeing).

Johnny :)

TargeT

5th August 2016, 12:52

Sorry this late response, but I came away from it. I did not follow 9e9's post very much, but I do remember some of them as very good.

From what you describe it seems to me as she has hit what Don Juan call the 2. enemy:

"He must do what he did with fear: he must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and
measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a
moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes. And thus he will
have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him any more. This will
not be a mistake. It will not be only a point before his eyes. It will be true power.

"He will know at this point that the power he has been pursuing for so long is finally his. He can do with it
whatever he pleases. His ally is at his command. His wish is the rule. He sees all that is around him. But he has
also come across his third enemy: Power!

Quote from the first book: 'The Teachings of Don Juan' page 35

IMO the way to defeat the 2. enemy is to see that you are seeing, and that that 'is all'.

(and for those who don't know it, there is a huge difference between looking and seeing).

Johnny :)

I think hers was the 3rd enemy, she was too good at seeing through the BS we lie to our selves with and unafraid to point it out because, from her perspective; she would want to know! That perspective wasn't shared by all.

petra

6th August 2016, 16:57

I was arguing in my head about "power" only last night!

First a little backstory... the whole illusion I was under for a while was that I was a "power source" of some kind, and I was being used as a weapon to kill things. I know it's foolish but my point is that it was scary as ****!! I felt as if I was a blind person who was expected to choose colors, just totally unfair. The thought of being powerful enough to destroy whole planets (even though it's not true) is just extremely scary when you consider stuff being able to trick you into doing it.

Anyway, the thought I had last night was "Knowledge is Power"....

The response was "WTF do you think you're going to power with knowledge??" (ha ha ha!)

Then I said "That guy sounds like an ass."

sparrow7

8th August 2016, 12:08

Yes they are, yes sir, yes sir. Not only that but they will build an outpost inside of you where it will be difficult for you to get rid of them, they want a fortress inside.

....and with the help of their mother, they might just do that, their mother being the serpent spirit, known as Venus, Sophia and so on.

Step one get you going and infest you with her parasitical children.
Step two the children grow inside of you so they can later rise to power.
Step three the larva hatches and it's war time for the mountain top, your mountain top, if they get there they get to manipulate you.

These are the archons inside of you, then there are the ones outside of you.

In the parsitical stage they will talk in your thoughts, to get you to weaken, guide you towards weakness, once they do that they will want the mountain top.

Their mother also manipulates you with Waves if you are open to her, she is outside, to get you to sumbbit to her children. She builds an umbrela inside of you at first where her children may grow and become eventualy the archonic gods in your head that you summit to.

God is talking, he is inside of you, inside your head, will you bow down to god.

TargeT

8th August 2016, 14:03

In the parsitical stage they will talk in your thoughts, to get you to weaken, guide you towards weakness, once they do that they will want the mountain top.

what stage are you at when they just kind of stop...

It's lonely in my head with out that constant chatter... I still get it at times (of course the most annoying times, when trying to sleep or something.. when stress levels are higher)

but mostly I feel like I'm just floating in silence and observing reality.

I got there by challenging the inner monologue often; I mostly use the trick of asking it "what is my next thought" then enjoying the silence (apparently these mind predators have zero creativity & need us for that; they cannot answer this question... at first I only got a few seconds of silence, but it stretches long now).

Similar to my new aversion to sugar (every time I saw/see it my mantra was/is "that's poison") I think I'm on my way to conditioning my inner monologue to a more peaceful (or at least quieter) state.

petra

8th August 2016, 17:17

God is talking, he is inside of you, inside your head, will you bow down to god.

I don't think god talks, or write books, but these archon things remind me of a computer virus.

I'm also thinking expletives! LOL I'm holding it in right now, the war is waging :P

sparrow7

9th August 2016, 14:03

what stage are you at when they just kind of stop...

Most of the people have it inside their body, I have them, you probaly have them. I'm at the stage where I have to guard my mind, they wan't to take over it.

but mostly I feel like I'm just floating in silence and observing reality.

Maybe you do not have them, or not enough of them and have little parasites.

I got there by challenging the inner monologue often; I mostly use the trick of asking it "what is my next thought" then enjoying the silence (apparently these mind predators have zero creativity & need us for that; they cannot answer this question... at first I only got a few seconds of silence, but it stretches long now).

If you can communicate with them then they are close by your mind or in your mind.

These parasites are not material, they are made of light and they feed on the light of your coating sort of speak.
They need to trancend to the mind's main control center where they can take over you, if they manage to do that.

They live embeded into this energetic coating that they eat and feast on, but they are at the larva stage, to transform they need enough enenrgy and the proper stage, your mind will hatch them for you, and when they do they will become the gods in your head.

To get to your mind's tops, the mountnain top sort of speak they will need to transcend there, since they don't crawl like regular maggots they beam up sort of, and you are the guard to prevent them from doing so.

We need to find real solutions to these problems, a practical guide.

sparrow7

9th August 2016, 14:08

They are more than just a virus, they have personalities, they are Artificial Inteligence, but with more potential, you see it's not that easy since you are part of their creation also, they are sort of your children, a hibrid between you and the ****ty archons from outside your body. They are the arcons within you.

So they got a little flavour of your self. But they will not listen to you and try to take over you, because they come from the puppet masters, the archons who fell as garbage from the heavens, and they made other archons, and those archons made another order, then that order of archons infested people and then other archons were born inside of you.

sparrow7

9th August 2016, 16:19

I wanted to make a thread on this, but it will have to do for now.

So we got the story of the archons starting from the gnostics, with Sophia giving birth to them, she gives birth to the first archon without permision.

So who is creating them ? It is Sophia the serpent, the wise Sophia, Sophia means wise in Greek.There is a bible passage where it states that you have to be "wise as serpents" and innocent as doves. So clearly the snake is associated with being wise, wisdom, it is a symbol of the serpent.

We see in the story of Sophia as she falls down from the galactic core, well....Satan falls from heavens too in a similar fashion. We see Sophia passing the god of the demiurge to enlighten humans, in similar fashion the serpent from the garden of edden told men to eat from the forbitten fruit and get enlighted. So Sophia=Satan the serpent.

The Demiurge god the god of the old testament also an Archon that is against Sophia.
So we got these two forces batteling with people choosing sides, when it is in fact just a game to game humanity.

The two forces represent the seal of solomon, the star of David, symbol of Saturn, so no matter what side you choose, it is the same side, since it is all archonic video game. They are playing everyone.

Sophia is no one entity but a type of spirits who creates Archons, larva Archons that then she inserts into one to grow them. So Satan's children are inside of you trying to take over you. The Demiurge, the god head, god call it what you want is another archonic side, and Sophia is the other Archonic side. But these two sides are different sides of the same coin, husband and wife.

Same side really, and how things stay in control, by creating sides and conflict, a constant distraction.

DNA

16th August 2016, 17:39

I think it's important to understand that most people in academia believe that Castaneda perpetrated a literary hoax, that his work is fiction, no matter how effective it was in captivating people's imagination and want to believe in the mystical and impossible. Even though his books might contain brilliant spiritual advice, and entertaining stories, in the end it's a lot of fiction and fluff.

Here is an article about Castaneda's Dark Legacy.

http://www.salon.com/2007/04/12/castaneda/

Hi Biff, I understand what your are saying.
When I initially saw the work of Richard Demille and Jay Courtney Fikes, and read their book sleeves I figured that they must be right, and my most beloved author was probably a fraud. But then I decided to do some serious research on the matter, I did more than read their book sleeves, I bought their books and read them. And they cited one work in particular that they said Castaneda stole from as his main source, a book titled "In the magic land of peyote" by Fernando Benitez.
Now this book was much more difficult to find, it was a rare limited edition out of print book. But, I found it in a rare used book store here in AZ.
I got lucky.
So I read it. I was not impressed.
Also, I've got to tell you I do not know where Fikes and Demille get off stating that Castaneda got anything, absolutely anything from Fernando Benitez's book.
There are almost no congruencies or similiraties what so ever. Like none.
This book, and the testimonials of those in Castaneda's life, including professors from UCLA encouraged me to take Castaneda's teachings to heart again.

So I wish to state that although there are the loud detractors, I think it important for all of us to come to our own conclusions.
My conclusion would be that there are no other works like Castaneda, and for me, the instructions are amazing, and probably the only way to successfully combat the archons and energy parasites discussed so often here on this forum.

Johnny

17th August 2016, 00:32

Here is another 'reminder' from Don Juan about the flyers:

"The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times," don Juan continued, "was to burden the
flyers' mind with discipline. They found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence,
the foreign installation would flee, giving to any one of the practitioners involved in this
maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin. The foreign installation comes back, I
assure you, but not as strong, and a process begins in which the fleeing of the 'flyers' mind
becomes routine, until one day it flees permanently. A sad day indeed! That's the day when you
have to rely on your own devices, which are nearly zero. There's no one to tell you what to do.
There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to.

"My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples," don Juan continued, "that this
was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life, for the real mind that belongs to us, the sum total of our
experience, after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty. Personally,
1 would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely
preparation."

I became genuinely agitated. 1 wanted to know more, and yet a strange feeling in me
clamored for me to stop. It alluded to dark results and punishment, something like the wrath of
God descending on me for tampering with something veiled by God himself. 1 made a supreme
effort to allow my curiosity to win.

"What-what-what do you mean," I heard myself say, "by taxing the flyers' mind?"

"Discipline taxes the foreign mind no end," he replied. "So, through their discipline, sorcerers
vanquish the foreign installation."

I was overwhelmed by his statements. I believed that don Juan was either certifiably insane or
that he was telling me something so awesome that it froze everything in me. I noticed, however
how quickly I rallied my energy to deny everything he had said. After an instant of panic, I began
to laugh, as if don Juan had told me a joke. I even heard myself saying, "Don Juan, don Juan,
you're incorrigible!"

Source: The Active Side of Infinity page 112

Johnny :)