The Devil and Donald Trump

[giovonni]

Proving again and again he is his own worse enemy ...

One wonders does he really even want to be president ...

Covering all the bases. (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36950083)

http://a3.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/hudrv85dfpwvir4rwono.jpg

The Devil and Donald Trump (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-simon-says-226520)

[Cardillac]

if I may add my own cheap, 25-cent opinion to this posting;

1st of all: what I cannot figure out about Trump is his, at times, claiming to want to buck the system/Satus Quo that made him what he is: wealthy-

so why would he want to bite the hand that feeds him?- is he "controlled opposition" (there is such a thing!)?- I don't have the answer- am not an insider-

2nd of all (regarding Trump's accusations that H. Clinton is "the devil"): if David Icke's research is to be taken seriously and his posting of the so-called Illuminati whistle-blower Arizona Wilder "Confessions of a Mother Godess" video is to be taken seriously (if, if, IF, IF!), Wilder claims to have seen H. Clinton involved in a satanic ritual;

so are Trump's accusations against Clinton just him talking off the top of his head or has he been informed about something?- I just don't know for sure- am not an insider-

in any case: I would prefer to ignore both candidates but we don't have that choice if one choses to vote and believes in the myth that the USA is a Democracy...

please be well all-

Larry

[Chester]

Regardless of how bad Trump could be, I know how bad Hillary is and IMO, it would be impossible for anything to be worse for the whole planet than Hillary to be US president.

Despite what I know with regards to Hillary, I also know that we (humanity) have allowed the planet to be taken over by those with self interests and group interests who do not care about the interests of the rest of us. And so Hillary is a huge odds on favorite to be this next US president. Those interests will ensure this. In fact, its pretty clear that Trump becoming the alternative was meant to ensure this.

Yes, I have given up.

I have one recommendation to my kids. Do not bring other souls to this planet at this time or any time in the near future.

[joeecho]

A couple of observations:

1) The whole rhetoric between and within the two major parties reminds me of a dog and pony show. Check that, it IS a dog and pony show.

2) MSM news is now overwhelmingly about Trump or Clinton...... so what, did most of the important world events and discussion making just all the sudden stop happening?

[Yetti]

Hello Cardillac. About HRC I have no doubt who she is , the question is who DT is... , all circus, all entertainment for the masses, meanwhile the behind doors agreements continues to roll full speed. We need to change this , we need to find the way to gather a 3rd option with enough force to set aside the monsters!!

[Yetti]

Sam , Don't you think a 3rd party can take over this ridiculous show we have now, I was thinking the possibilities and couldn't be worse than any of the actual nominees R/D !!

[ceetee9]

1) The whole rhetoric between and within the two major parties reminds me of a dog and pony show. Check that, it IS a dog and pony show.Without question and even worse IMO.


2) MSM news is now overwhelmingly about Trump or Clinton...... so what, did most of the important world events and discussion making just all the sudden stop happening?
Not to mention most of the MSM has no problem flaunting their disgusting liberal/"progressive" bias as is quite evident when they spend far more time bashing Trump than Clinton. Gotta do everything they can to keep the gullible believing they represent the majority of Americans. And, no, I'm not a Trump fan. I just despise the MSM's shameless bias. There is no unbiased reporting in this country anymore--if there ever really was.

[giovonni]

1) The whole rhetoric between and within the two major parties reminds me of a dog and pony show. Check that, it IS a dog and pony show.Without question and even worse IMO.


2) MSM news is now overwhelmingly about Trump or Clinton...... so what, did most of the important world events and discussion making just all the sudden stop happening?
Not to mention most of the MSM has no problem flaunting their disgusting liberal/"progressive" bias as is quite evident when they spend far more time bashing Trump than Clinton. Gotta do everything they can to keep the gullible believing they represent the majority of Americans. And, no, I'm not a Trump fan. I just despise the MSM's shameless bias. There is no unbiased reporting in this country anymore--if there ever really was.

Still i am really amazed Trump has gotten this far without saying (or committing) to anything of real substance ...
If he's going to go all the way - he will have to take it beyond adlib's or (reality) TV scripted one liners.

Whether or not he was set up all along to be the patsy - now it appears his unpredictable personalty type is causing concerned worries within the big money establishment - hence the recent MSM onslaught attacks ... This could be disastrous for his final fall campaign surge.

[ceetee9]

Sam , Don't you think a 3rd party can take over this ridiculous show we have now, I was thinking the possibilities and couldn't be worse than any of the actual nominees R/D !!I apologize for jumping in here Sam and Yetti. I'm sure Sam will respond.

If the people I know and have talked to, who claim to dislike both R/D candidates immensely and who vow to vote for a 3rd party candidate, is any indication of how the majority of Americans feel then, yes, I believe an Independent candidate, like Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson, might have a chance.

However, with the MSM propaganda machine doing what they always do by keeping the focus on the Rep/Dem "Dog and Pony Show" and the fact that it is exceedingly difficult to get people to change their habits, I suspect it will come down to what it likely has always come down to and the rank and file will vote their party line or vote for "the lesser of the two evils" for fear of "throwing away their vote." And, voila, the status quo is maintained for yet another 4 years.

But for those who may be interested, here's a link to the "2016 Independent Presidential Candidates (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/?other=other)."

[ceetee9]

1) The whole rhetoric between and within the two major parties reminds me of a dog and pony show. Check that, it IS a dog and pony show.Without question and even worse IMO.


2) MSM news is now overwhelmingly about Trump or Clinton...... so what, did most of the important world events and discussion making just all the sudden stop happening?
Not to mention most of the MSM has no problem flaunting their disgusting liberal/"progressive" bias as is quite evident when they spend far more time bashing Trump than Clinton. Gotta do everything they can to keep the gullible believing they represent the majority of Americans. And, no, I'm not a Trump fan. I just despise the MSM's shameless bias. There is no unbiased reporting in this country anymore--if there ever really was.

Still i am really amazed Trump has gotten this far without saying (or committing) to anything of real substance ...
If he's going to go all the way - he will have to take it beyond adlib's or (reality) TV scripted one liners.As if Hillary has made any statements of real substance? No offense Giovonni, but neither candidate has made any statements of any real substance. They are all one liner sound bites, generally of the same garbage we've heard every election, and that's when they aren't slamming their opponent. I can't remember ever hearing any candidate not bad mouthing their opponent(s) and just laying out their "plans" and then providing real details as to how they were going to implement those plans. One liner sound bites, slamming your opponent, rah-rah speeches, banal platitudes, and zero substance "plans" with no real intent to ever implement them (in most cases) all designed to appease the bewildered masses is all we ever get. This is the way of our political process.

I wish someone would put together a video of all the crap/"promises"/zero substance "plans" that Presidential candidates have spewed over the last 50 years. They could play it over and over on all channels every election year and STILL few would be the wiser. I don't even waste my time arguing with those who still believe there's a difference between the two parties or that THEIR candidate is the candidate of CHANGE (whatever that is supposed to mean) who will lead us into the promised land. If it wasn't so absurd and destructive to our nation it would be laughable.

[Chester]

Sam , Don't you think a 3rd party can take over this ridiculous show we have now, I was thinking the possibilities and couldn't be worse than any of the actual nominees R/D !!

I defer to the following posts -

If Voting Made Any Difference, They Wouldn’t Let Us Do It (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1086811&viewfull=1#post1086811)

70 Years Ago Today, WWII Vets Took Up Arms Against Corrupt Cops and Ran Them Out of Town (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1086816&viewfull=1#post1086816)

and this one - here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1086818&viewfull=1#post1086818)

I might add that if something serious (indictable) comes out in additional e-mails and with Trump's continuous acts of self implosion... perhaps Johnson gets in after all. Not sure that would be any better than any of them.

I would like to nominate a 5th candidate... our dog, Jax.

[bogeyman]

The system itself is always there regardless of the political parties and Presidential candidates. Those that know how to manipulate or circumvent the system and those that know how to control the media it would be entirely possible to "rig" the system so Trump loses, all it takes is the media to turn on him. Who controls the media, are they as free as some make out? If anything effects the masses, and effects opinions then someone is going to take an interest especially those in power, and not necessary those in the public eye.

[Yetti]

Hey Sam, remember the President can't fix all alone, our commitment as individuals and as a group of a modern society put us as well in charge of the country, being vigilant 24/7 knowing the bad guys still there trying to push their agenda ! This is the country where my children will live and I want to put my grain of sand to help build a decent future for them with solid basis, not continuous caos. I already lost my country and all my work of several years , I do not want to loose this one too.

[petra]

I cannot wait for the election to be over! I'm in Canada and I am SO SICK of hearing "Make America Great Again". I wonder is he gonna copyright that or what?

I know it's awful, but that man reminds me a bit of myself. Don't vote for me!!

[Chester]

Hey Sam, remember the President can't fix all alone, our commitment as individuals and as a group of a modern society put us as well in charge of the country, being vigilant 24/7 knowing the bad guys still there trying to push their agenda ! This is the country where my children will live and I want to put my grain of sand to help build a decent future for them with solid basis, not continuous chaos. I already lost my country and all my work of several years , I do not want to loose this one too.

I understand this. I would love to know where you originated from.

[Mike Gorman]

Yes, the Trump question has developed-when he first emerged as a contender I thought he was a genuine alternative to the establishment, and the fact he is a bit of a maverick seemed to back that up-compared to Hillary Clinton he is at least not a 'war hawk' and gob-****e (an old Irish expression) which Clinton so grossly is (Her cackling gloat over Quadafi's murder is chilling). BUT this is now the classic dialectic we are always being offered by the shadow power structure. Dreadful predicament we are in really.

[onawah]

Is this how the elections are being rigged-Jon Rappaport
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/…/us-election-shocker-i…/ Votes are being counted as fractions instead of as whole numbers
by Jon Rappoport
August 1, 2016


As we know, there are a number of ways to rig an election. Bev Harris, at blackboxvoting.org, is exploring a specific “cheat sheet” that has vast implications for the Trump vs. Hillary contest.
It’s a vote-counting system called GEMS.
I urge you to dive into her multi-part series, Fraction Magic (Part-1 here). Here are key Harris quotes. They’re all shockers:
“Our testing [of GEMS] shows that one vote can be counted 25 times, another only one one-thousandth of a time, effectively converting some votes to zero.”
“This report summarizes the results of our review of the GEMS election management system, which counts approximately 25 percent of all votes in the United States. The results of this study demonstrate that a fractional vote feature is embedded in each GEMS application which can be used to invisibly, yet radically, alter election outcomes by pre-setting desired vote percentages to redistribute votes. This tampering is not visible to election observers, even if they are standing in the room and watching the computer. Use of the decimalized vote feature is unlikely to be detected by auditing or canvass procedures, and can be applied across large jurisdictions in less than 60 seconds.”
“GEMS vote-counting systems are and have been operated under five trade names: Global Election Systems, Diebold Election Systems, Premier Election Systems, Dominion Voting Systems, and Election Systems & Software, in addition to a number of private regional subcontractors. At the time of this writing, this system is used statewide in Alaska, Connecticut, Georgia, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Utah and Vermont, and for counties in Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming. It is also used in Canada.”
“Instead of ‘1’ the vote is allowed to be 1/2, or 1+7/8, or any other value that is not a whole number.”
“Weighting a race [through the use of GEMS] removes the principle of ‘one person-one vote’ to allow some votes to be counted as less than one or more than one. Regardless of what the real votes are, candidates can receive a set percentage of votes. Results can be controlled. For example, Candidate A can be assigned 44% of the votes, Candidate B 51%, and Candidate C the rest.”
“All evidence that [rigged] fractional values ever existed [in the GEMS system] can be removed instantly even from the underlying database using a setting in the GEMS data tables, in which case even instructing GEMS to show the [rigged] decimals will fail to reveal they were used.”
“Source code: Instructions to treat votes as decimal values instead of whole numbers [i.e., rigging] are inserted multiple times in the GEMS source code itself; thus, this feature cannot have been created by accident.”
A contact who, so far, apparently wishes to remain anonymous states the following about the history of the GEMS system:
“The Fractional vote [rigging] portion traces directly to Jeffrey W. Dean, whose wife was primary stockholder of the company that developed GEMS. He ran the company but was prohibited from handling money or checks due to a criminal conviction for computer fraud, for which he spent 4 years in prison. Almost immediately after being released from prison he was granted intimate access to elections data and large government contracts for ballot printing and ballot processing.”
I see no effort on the part of the federal government, state governments, or the mainstream press to investigate the GEMS system or respond to Bev Harris’ extensive analysis.
It’s not as if media outlets are unaware of her. From shesource.org, here is an excerpt from her bio:
“Harris has been referred to as ‘the godmother’ of the election reform movement. (Boston Globe). Vanity Fair magazine credits her with founding the movement to reform electronic voting. Time Magazine calls her book, Black Box Voting, ‘the bible’ of electronic voting… Harris’s investigations have led some to call her the ‘Erin Brockovich of elections.’ (Salon.com)… Harris has supervised five ‘hack demonstrations’ in the field, using real voting machines. These have been covered by the Associated Press, the Washington Post, and in formal reports by the United States General Accounting Office…”
So far, her analysis of GEMS seems to be labeled “too hot to handle.” Press outlets prefer to report the slinging of mud from both Presidential candidates’ camps. Meanwhile, the actual results of the coming elections—including Congressional races—appear to be up for grabs, depending on who controls GEMS.
Jon Rappoport

[Yetti]

Hi Sam, I was born in Argentina, later move to Venezuela , and now I'm gringo !!

[ponda]

Rigged voting machines...???

Here's a vid from https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/us-election-shocker-is-this-how-the-vote-will-be-rigged/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltv0NF9-hvU

[Chester]

Hi Sam, I was born in Argentina, later move to Venezuela , and now I'm gringo !!

Incredible y por eso tu hablas Espanol, si? Vivi en Panama y Costa Rica y Curacao por 15 anos. Mi esposa es una Colombiana. Estaba en Caracas una vez en 2001. Donde vives ahorita? Estoy en Dallas, Texas.

[Cidersomerset]

I loved the title Giovanni made me chuckle and conjured up the picture
from an old movie of Donald in the middle with the devil Don on one
shoulder and angel Don on the other ..LOL . But I could not find a graphic
for that so went for the devil wears two faces and we know who they are
in this scenario...LOL

http://theredshtick.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Donald-Trump-Hillary-Clinton-Devil-660x330.png


I'm looking thru the headline page and here are some recent articles...

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Neocon-like Groupthink Dominates Both Conventions

By David on 5 August 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-87.jpg


‘The mass migration of apparently hundreds of nominally GOP neocon apparatchiks
to the Hillary Clinton camp has moved Democratic Party foreign policy farther to the
right, not that the presidential nominee herself needed much persuading. The
Democratic convention platform is a template of the hardline foreign policy positions
espoused by Clinton and the convention itself concluded with a prolonged bout of
Russian bashing that could have been orchestrated by Hillary protégé Victoria Nuland.

The inside the beltway crowd has realized that when in doubt it is always a safe bet
to blame Vladimir Putin based on the assumption that Russia is and always will be an
enemy of the United States. Wikileaks recently published some thousands of emails
that painted the Democratic National Committee, then headed by Hillary loyalist
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, in a very bad light.

Needing a scapegoat, Russia was blamed for the original hack that obtained the
information, even though there is no hard evidence that Moscow had anything
to do with it.’

Read more: Neocon-like Groupthink Dominates Both Conventions

http://www.unz.com/article/neocon-like-groupthink-dominates-both-conventions/

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After initial reluctance Trump endorses Ryan, McCain and Ayotte for reelection

By David on 6 August 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-10-1.jpg

‘In an attempt to ease party tensions, Donald Trump has endorsed House Speaker
Paul Ryan’s run for reelection, along with Senators John McCain and Kelly Ayotte.
All three had been critical of Trump, and vice versa, until late Friday.’

Read more: After initial reluctance Trump endorses Ryan, McCain and Ayotte for reelection

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/08/05/trump-endorses-ryan-mccain-and-ayotte-after-initial-reluctance.html

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Trump calls Hillary Clinton 'founder of ISIS,’ crowd cheers ‘lock her up’

By David on 5 August 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-1-3.jpg

‘Donald Trump said Wednesday Hillary Clinton “should get an award” from Islamists for
founding Islamic State, claiming her policies as secretary of state precipitated the group’s
formation. Trump’s supporters were quick to nod a “lock her up.”

“Take a look at Orlando. Take a look at San Bernardino. Take a look at the World Trade
Center. Take a look at what’s going on, and then worldwide, and we let [Islamic State
or IS, formerly] ISIS take this position,” the Republican presidential nominee said during
an election rally in Daytona Beach, Florida. He drew a list of flaws in US policy in Libya
and the Middle East, laying all the blame on his opponent, Clinton.’

Read more: Trump calls Hillary Clinton ‘founder of ISIS,’ crowd cheers ‘lock her up’

https://www.rt.com/usa/354562-trump-clinton-isis-founder/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

[giovonni]

will share this here ...

Ep. 501 FADE to BLACK w/ Jon Rappoport

"Another Thursday night, another FADERNIGHT with Jon Rappoport and his No More Fake News Room...
and tonight he covers the election and the rigging of voting machines...and then we open up the
phone lines for back to back calls until the end of the show" ...

Air date: August 4, 2016/ Published on Aug 29, 2013

Jon Rappoport segment starts at the 31 minute mark


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUrUkAeCw28&feature=em-uploademail

[giovonni]

for those of you too young to remember ...


http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/eagleton-mcgovern.jpg

The Arcane Rules That Would Kick In If Trump Drops Out (http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-arcane-rules-that-would-kick-in-if-trump-drops-out?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=atlas-page)

[Cidersomerset]

I'm still not sure if the Donald is a genuine Presidential candidate or
a 'stalking Horse ' for the 'Killary campaign ? Either way once in the
White House I doubt whether it will matter and much will change.
As the neo -con policy coup post cold war is still playing out and
the major corporate and secret forces behind the on going carnage
seem to still be entrenched in the seat of power.

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We Can’t Look Away: The Joy of Watching Donald Trump's Epic Presidential Trainwreck

By David on 7 August 2016 GMT


https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-278.jpg



http://www.alternet.org/sites/all/themes/custom/alternet/logo.png

Election 2016

We Can’t Look Away: The Joy of Watching Donald Trump's Epic Presidential Trainwreck

Trump’s campaign and his takeover of the Republican Party are the political equivalents of a car accident.

By Chauncey DeVega / Salon

August 5, 2016


‘Donald Trump’s campaign and his takeover of the Republican Party are the political equivalents of a car
accident. The American corporate news media—and many among the public, on both the left and the
right—are participating in an act of political rubbernecking. They are transfixed by the skid marks on
the road and the broken bodies lying nearby.

Liberal schadenfreude is also compelling; the apparent implosion of the Republican Party under the boot
heel of Donald Trump is transfixing.

The headlines provide ample evidence of these raw pleasures. They read, “Donald Trump is destroying
the Republican Party,” “Republicans are Plotting an Intervention,” “Is Donald Trump throwing his campaign?”
and that he is causing a “freak-out” by pushing the GOP to its “breaking point.”’

Read more: We Can’t Look Away: The Joy of Watching Donald Trump’s Epic Presidential Trainwreck

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/we-cant-look-away-joy-watching-donald-trumps-epic-presidential-trainwreck

[Sueanne47]

I worry **like mad** for America and the rest of the world's safety because of this craziness. The Killary crowd are blind so there wont be a revolution happening any time soon, and it'll be too late to do anything if martial law is implemented...I've seen the tank and equipment freight train videos going across America - and its frightening.

Sue

[giovonni]

Insane or Psychopath - Your Vote Matters?

Freeman with Joe Atwill

"Joe Atwill asks, if Clinton is a psychopath and Trump is insane who is the best choice? Your vote matters? How is psychological warfare affecting our decision process? MKULTRA established a format for social control. We are made to believe that we are part of the process. Why were these two chosen? Can humanity pull together to bring about real change?"

Published on Aug 7, 2016


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPG6SUEBT5s&feature=em-uploademail

[Cidersomerset]

Does it matter who in the office ? a couple of articles I put on Hillary's thread....


Transparency? Ha! US State Dept spokesman laughs hysterically at press briefing

By David on 6 August 2016 GMT

RWM8S9J_dNo

Published on 4 Aug 2016

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CNN Admits it's Biased for Hillary

By David on 7 August 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/10257210_10152879846783842_7994370081044390818_o.jpg

Qc3EI1xD_Cw

Published on 4 Aug 2016

HILLARY CLINTON ( It does not say when this was aired ? )


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http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.1/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Trump campaign teeters on the brink

Anthony Zurcher
North America reporter
5 August 2016

Like a boxer on the ropes, the Trump campaign has weathered a flurry of body
blows over the past few weeks. Is this the beginning of the end, a full three months
before election day? Should Donald Trump throw in the towel before the inevitable
November knockout?

The latest round of national polls has set off something akin to a mass panic among
Republican officeholders and intelligentsia, with some wishing Mr Trump would just
quit already and leave them to pick up the pieces.

read more ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36990724

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Death of the two-party system: Republican bigwigs formally endorse Hillary Clinton

By David on 7 August 2016 GMT

‘Whatever happens on November 8, Donald Trump can claim this achievement:
His candidacy exposed the fact that the two-party system of Democrats and
Republicans is an illusion.

What we have in the U.S. instead is a corrupt polity where Democrat and Republican
élites form a single ruling party, as Professor Emeritus Angelo M. Codevilla stunningly
asserted in 2010. (See “America’s Bipartisan Ruling Class vs. the People“) The evidence?

The following list of Republican bigwigs who, by publicly declaring their support for
Hillary Clinton — the pathological liar who had accomplished nothing as secretary of
state, but violated U.S. laws and jeopardized national security with her unsecured
private email server; lied about and left four Americans to die in Benghazi; and supports
the absolute “right” of women to kill their unborn — instead of Republican Party presidential
nominee Donald Trump, have peeled away their masks, revealing their true faces.’

Read more: Death of the two-party system: Republican bigwigs formally

https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2016/08/04/death-of-the-2-party-system-gop-bigwigs-formally-endorse-hillary-clinton/

[bettye198]

Excuse me for being politically incorrect. Most of us know that there is not a two party system. It is one agenda divided to let us see that there is opposition. But it is not opposition. It is just a clever way to manipulate the masses. If you can dupe the mind, create chaos ( MSM) and debate and twist and spin, you have confusion and that is their goal.

The title Giovanni should have been the Devil and Hillary and Donald. Maybe the Independents name as well, since they are part of the formula.

Here is one point I believe is crucial to my vote for Trump. He does not have a history of falling in line with the Skull and Bones, CFR, Satanic goings on, Bilderbergers etc. He has not given over his soul. That is a biggie for me. If I am wrong, then the truth will reveal itself but up to this point, nothing. The biggest point of contention is his behavior behind the podium and his harsh words. His lack of legislative know how and other sundry bullet points on Washingtons daily agenda. Now take a look at Duterte, the Phillipines new President. He is a Trump. He rages on and locks up the gangsters and mobsters and has authorized guns to the civilians to protect themselves. The people love him. I know Filipinos who said he was a tough love as a mayor changing the city from the murder capital to now the most peaceful city in Asia and now as President he is kicking butt. He is accusing government officials of drug links and cleaning house on so many levels. When I learned of Duterte I thought, this is exactly what we need. Tough love. If Trump had some intolerable back history besides his bankruptcies which is ridiculous, we would all cringe. We cringe with Hillary because every step of the way she exacts a cardinal sin upon the country. Maybe it is time to get clear on what WE want for our country and not be in fear of a loud mouthed individual with a narcissistic temperment. Sometimes that is what is needed with tough love. We have been around the soft spoken mealy mouthed politicians for so long we have this difficult time accepting someone out of the establishment. True, he is not a Republican which is why the party denies him. He is a man with a level of power, money and influence to draw the right advisors to his side to do the right thing, the patriot thing. He may not profess his spirituality but that act of wanting to right the country is a Godly thing to me. Nuff said. :bowing:

[giovonni]

While i prefer neither main party candidates ...

i appreciate your sharing your opinion bettye198.

[giovonni]

Watch Donald Trump's full speech on economic policy

PBS News

"Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump delivered a speech
on his economic policy plan in Detroit on Monday."

Published on Aug 8, 2016


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnNNAfMiFqo

[TargeT]

...I've seen the tank and equipment freight train videos going across America - and its frightening.

Sue

we have one of the largest most well equipped group of military elements in the world... every single state and territory also has a National Guard (air and army) with their OWN equipment, and then we have the "reserves" with THEIR own equipment....

so, with that in mind... is it so disturbing that we move the equipment around occasionally?

ALL of those organizations have at least one major exercise every year (often more like 4 or 5) that requires a TON of logistical work, & moving equipment by train is just cheaper, that's all.

I've been in the military since 1999 in various positions, (still in the military now) & from my point of view and experience.. nothing at all to worry about.

[giovonni]

There sure is no doubt day by day Donald Trump continues to stir up the MSM pot ...

While often saying things we here on this forum have been saying for years ...

Below is a speculative explanation/article from the spring (that has been reared up again) that tries to address his strange/odd behavioral speech spill concerns ... All while still having to admit I am thoroughly enjoying this current presidential campaign with a big giggle :)

http://static.deathandtaxesmag.com/uploads/2016/05/Trump-sleep-Business-Insider1-640x320.jpg

Donald Trump: The Sleep Deprivation Hypothesis (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-bulkeley-phd/donald-trump-the-sleep-de_b_9413588.html)

[giovonni]

I do see clearly and understand Donald Trump's appeal to the many feeling
disenfranchised American citizens across the nation ...

But ?

Though I can truly relate to this telling snippet (from last year) by John Fogerty (formerly of Creedence Clearwater Revival) on the early phenomenal appeal of the Donald Trump campaign .... But it would be even more compelling to hear now what John thinks currently of the Trump Presidential Campaign?

Unfortunately there was no comments available.

***

FORTUNATE SON11.01.15 11:42 PM ET

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2015/11/02/john-fogerty-on-fascinating-donald-trump-his-disappointment-with-obama-and-battling-demons/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/48215033.cached.jpg

John Fogerty on ‘Fascinating’ Donald Trump, His Disappointment with Obama,
and Battling Demons

The Daily Beast ~ "The biggest political statement of your career was obviously “Fortunate Son.” It seems like we’re still dealing with the problems you addressed—perpetual war, corrupt and nepotistic leaders, diminished hopes. In some ways, Donald Trump embodies the “fortunate son” you railed against 46 years ago, no?

John Fogerty ~ When Donald Trump first announced he was running for president, I thought that’d be like an eyeblink. This has happened before in our history where sorta off-the-wall folks will announce their candidacy and then, as we learn more about them, it becomes silly and they eventually leave.

But what’s fascinating about the Trump candidacy is not only that he became one of the players but that he became the highest-rated. I find that surprising at first, but now you wonder: What is going on here if that many people are still supporting his candidacy? I kinda thought we all knew what there was to know about Donald Trump. It is surprising to me that at this stage in his life he can say things that shock people.

I happen to be a lifelong liberal, I’m certainly not going to be voting for Donald Trump, but I find the candidacy and that story fascinating on the landscape of American politics.

I’m also fascinated and I am very happy that Jeb Bush didn’t find it as easy as his family probably thought it would be to have another Bush up in the higher ranks. He just doesn’t look very appetizing and most people feel that kind of way. I’m not a Republican or a conservative, so it’s not something that really affects me. I do find [Trump] especially fascinating and the rest of it is the same old stuff, as far as I’m concerned" ...

source (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/02/john-fogerty-on-fascinating-donald-trump-his-disappointment-with-obama-and-battling-demons.html)

http://www.trbimg.com/img-56e0bab1/turbine/la-le-0310-donald-trump-republicans-20160310/600

John Fogerty : Fortunate Son


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLAaahqDT48

[giovonni]

For those U.S. citizens who might want to consider.

Whether you believe your vote will really count or note ...
At least ponder and reconsider your good will and intent upon this conscious process.

Don’t Like Donald Trump Or Hillary Clinton? Here Are Your Third-Party Options For 2016 (http://www.ibtimes.com/dont-donald-trump-or-hillary-clinton-here-are-your-third-party-options-2016-2379598)

[Cidersomerset]

I'm still not sure if the Donald is a genuine Presidential candidate or
a 'stalking Horse ' for the 'Killary campaign ?


Is Trump Deliberately Throwing The Election To Clinton?

By David on 16 August 2016 GMT


https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Untitled-32-2.jpg

”There is an adage in politics: Don’t get in the way of a train wreck,’ said Democratic
strategist Bob Shrum, a top campaign aide to presidential candidates Al Gore in 2000
and John Kerry in 2004. And, as Reuters reports, Clinton’s advisers say they see little
benefit in her going toe-to-toe with Trump over every personal accusation, generating
sound bites that would dominate cable news broadcasts. Rather, they are happy for him
to be embroiled in controversy while Clinton focuses on policy.’

Read more: Is Trump Deliberately Throwing The Election To Clinton?


http://www.thedailyliberator.com/trump-deliberately-throwing-election-clinton/

[giovonni]

[I]Proving again and again he is his own worse enemy ...

One wonders does he really even want to be president ...



I stand by the original opening post to this thread.

[Wind]

Turiya said it rather well here...

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1090008&viewfull=1#post1090008

[giovonni]

Turiya said it rather well here...



I would prefer you keep the two threads separate.

[giovonni]

RollingStone

"The drip, drip, drip of Republicans defecting over Donald J. Trump's candidacy has become a sudden deluge of
party loyalists urging the Republican National Committee to withdraw funding for the faltering campaign" ...

123 Republican Leaders Urge RNC to Cut Off Funding to Trump (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/read-gop-open-letter-urging-rnc-to-cut-off-funding-to-trump-w434687)

[giovonni]

Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes ...

US election 2016: Trump overhauls campaign team again (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37104688)

[giovonni]

Trump’s new campaign manager challenges Clinton on policy

PBS NewHour

"For the second time this summer, Donald Trump has made major changes to senior campaign staff, hiring Stephen Bannon as CEO and promoting Kellyanne Conway to manager. Judy Woodruff speaks with Robert Costa of The Washington Post about what the campaign must do to rally suburban voters in swing states, and with Conway about health care policy and the candidate’s desire for "warriors" he can trust."

Published on Aug 17, 2016


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTKULyKrEyE

[giovonni]

got to go down ... (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767747/Mogul-landed-Trump-arrives-Mexico-City-without-reporters-tow-choppers-meet-President-Nieto-protesters.html)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrN6qdlUMAAPiox.jpg

TRUMP IN MEXICO


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e_huGmZJ3g

[giovonni]

YIKES
no cleaver quip needed for this one ...


RollingStone

http://img.wennermedia.com/760-width/trump-f20c0ce5-d8b5-4818-aee3-e2be24341b15.jpg

How Donald Trump Lost His Mojo (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/how-donald-trump-lost-his-mojo-w438162?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=daily&utm_campaign=090616_16)

[TargeT]

Ahh rolling stones, showing your bias colors again.

[giovonni]

Ahh rolling stones, showing your bias colors again.

No more than what's going on over at the Trump Lovefest thread ... giggle :)

PS ~ mr target i am not for neither Hillary or Donald.

[mojo]

Hi registered independent here and haven't joined the Trump lovefest but in my heart the issue falls into voting for a Globalist or Nationalist direction. If I can vote to help slow down the elites globalist agenda I will vote on that side. Hope its ok to share that? cheers

oops mention just in case Hillary is definitely the Globalist agenda

[TargeT]

Ahh rolling stones, showing your bias colors again.

No more than what's going on over at the Trump Lovefest thread ... giggle :)

PS ~ mr target i am not for neither Hillary or Donald.

The media have made an excellent case for getting rid of the media this election cycle... the bias is at undeniable levels. (not sure how threads come into that) I think it's great, hopefully more people will catch on now that it's pretty in-your-face... I hear fox is thinking about springing a sister network "trump TV" or some crap (http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2016/09/06/told-trump-insider-confirms-plans-trump-tv/).... hahahaha!

[giovonni]

Ahh rolling stones, showing your bias colors again.

No more than what's going on over at the Trump Lovefest thread ... giggle :)

PS ~ mr target i am not for neither Hillary or Donald.

I hear fox is thinking about springing a sister network "trump TV" or some crap (http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2016/09/06/told-trump-insider-confirms-plans-trump-tv/).... hahahaha!

Yes, i really sense Donald would prefer this more than being president ...
Anything that would promote his 'Brand'.

[giovonni]

Hi registered independent here and haven't joined the Trump lovefest but in my heart the issue falls into voting for a Globalist or Nationalist direction. If I can vote to help slow down the elites globalist agenda I will vote on that side. Hope its ok to share that? cheers

oops mention just in case Hillary is definitely the Globalist agenda

Wouldn't be too sure about that ...
It's all about that money thing.

[giovonni]

The Trump/Brand

where it all started ...




See Inside Donald Trump's Childhood Home Which Is Going Up For Auction

Donald Trump's childhood home in Queens, New York, is up for auction. Inside Edition was given a tour of the 2,500-square-foot house by realtor Howard Kaminowitz. The home goes up for auction October 19 with an opening bid of $849,000. The five-bedroom Tudor house sits on a quiet street where Trump lived right after his was born 70 years ago. Donald's father, Fred, left his mark on the house. In part of the doorway, the Trump name is emblazoned in the wood.

Published on Sep 9, 2016


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm1H2cmtLao

[giovonni]

Apparently Candidate Donald Trump, a New Yorker, took taxpayer-funded money earmarked
for small businesses and for losses he said he didn’t even suffer ...

http://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal-1400/donald-trump-world-trade-center-40-wall-street-53e3e097-710f-4870-985b-783073c2136d.jpg

How Donald Trump Cashed in on 9/11 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/how-donald-trump-cashed-in-on-911-w438757?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=daily&utm_campaign=090916_16)

[Intuitive Fish]

It's interesting. We talk about the false dichotomy of the two-party system. We see it. We speak out against it.... Or we fall for campaign rhetoric only to find out one candidate isn't essentially any different than the candidate from the other party once in office. Obama was known as the Nobel Peace Prize president, yet there hasn't been a single day of non-war since he's been in office.... And here we are once again.

It's interesting to watch the public fall into the trap again. But the fear and guilt tactics used to pressure people to vote for one or the other is over the top, even for two of the most unpopular U.S. presidential candidates.

Almost all of Donald's platforms incite fear. But if you don't vote for Hillary, "evil scary Trump" will win - and vice versa. The ultimate blame is placed on the 3rd party voter or non-voter. It's their fault if "Hitler" or "the antichrist" is elected because they failed to vote for the "lesser evil." It's your duty to vote! especially for the two non-choices.

Even Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky are advocates of voting for the "lesser evil." For Chomsky, that's only if you live in a swing state. Speaking of swing states, we tend to forget that there are just a few "voters" in a few states who ultimately decide the winner based on the "all or nothing" electoral college. Even then, elections really are rigged, superdelegates, policies and campaigns are bought and our entire system of politics is based on corporate lobbyism, cronyism, media collusion (which we found out from the DNC leaks) and ultimately the controlling power of the elite and bankers.

Donald positions himself as a messianic solution to the oligarchy and the rigged system but he isn't a politician. He's a business man. He knows what sells and what the public will buy. He's interested in profit, both domestically and in foreign business affairs. Hillary's clearly interested in the same as she's been under investigation for profiteering fraud after fraud throughout her entire campaign. Donald would be under investigation as well if he wasn't so good at covering his tracks, as we know from the long list of people he's screwed over in business deals and bragging about not paying his taxes.

But here's what they both indisputably have in common: neither care about people as their primary interest. The primary interest of both is plutocracy. Everything else is just confirmation bias or an act.

Hillary pretends to care about people in poverty, etc while simultaneously pushing policies to bomb civilians in the poorest countries in the world.... You can see how much Donald (and disturbingly, his followers) cares about people by his open racism, sexism and ableism or his admitted willingness to use nuclear weapons.... I wouldn't say Donald or Hillary are any more evil than your average human being. They're both actually really smart. It's just that for some bizarre reason, they possess an unhealthy amount of power, wealth and influence.

What's the solution? Don't buy into false promises, fear-mongering, and football drama. Refuse to believe in or be afraid of either candidate, and simply don't vote for them. Continue fact-checking and calling out the lies and the crimes no matter who's in office. There's actually quite a few people doing this such as Bernie or Bust supporters. You just won't hear about them in the news. And of course, stay focused on what you'd like to see instead. What would the U.S. look like without Republican/Democrat-controlled politics? That's an interesting scenario to think about.

[TargeT]

Donald (and disturbingly, his followers) cares about people by his open racism, sexism and ableism




Continue fact-checking and calling out the lies and the crimes no matter who's in office.


These two statements seem to be in conflict.



Granted, I haven't been super attentive this cycle, but sexism, ableism, racism? holy crap... You mus think Hillary is REALLY bad if you're equating these two while saying that about just one side.

I think you should put a big "IMO" in front of those claims, I've not seen it.. a lot of people haven't.

Donald is certainly what traditionally was called a sociopath (I think it's been re-termed now as "anti social personality disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder)" or some crap.. haha) & Hillary's in the same boat with a few bonus issues.


I don't see how Hillary can't win.. that's a bit terrifying but if you analyze the situation: she has nearly the entire thing in her corner or pocket, corporations, media, military industrial complex, everything but most or at least half of the people.

[Sueanne47]

Nigel Farage is helping the Donald about handling Killary ~

http://news.sky.com/story/trump-calls-on-farage-to-sit-in-at-next-presidential-debate-10603901

[Intuitive Fish]

Donald (and disturbingly, his followers) cares about people by his open racism, sexism and ableism




Continue fact-checking and calling out the lies and the crimes no matter who's in office.


These two statements seem to be in conflict.



Granted, I haven't been super attentive this cycle, but sexism, ableism, racism? holy crap... You mus think Hillary is REALLY bad if you're equating these two while saying that about just one side.

I think you should put a big "IMO" in front of those claims, I've not seen it.. a lot of people haven't.

Donald is certainly what traditionally was called a sociopath (I think it's been re-termed now as "anti social personality disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder)" or some crap.. haha) & Hillary's in the same boat with a few bonus issues.

Nooooo... not this thread too. *silently screams* Hi, TargeT.

Yes, Hillary has her racism, etc issues too. While Donald openly brags about his prejudice, Hillary hides hers behind social equality campaign platforms. This is why she appeals to white liberals while Donald tells the alt-right what they want to hear. This is a prime example of how both candidates use different methods to achieve the same ends.

But Hillary's public slips happen about once a year while for Donald it's daily (http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/, (Is Donald Trump Racist? Here's what the record shows)) or as in the case of the presidential debate, every few minutes (http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-interrupts-hillary-clinton-51-times-during-sexist-presidential-503189 (Presidential debate 'showcases Donald Trump’s sexism' as he interrupts Clinton 51 times)).

And just in case anyone isn't completely convinced of Donald's record of racism, here is a very, very long list of proof:

(A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is racist". • /r/EnoughTrumpSpam) (https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4r2yxs/a_final_response_to_the_tell_me_why_trump_is/)

Both candidates have "scary" issues but to fall into the trap that one is better than or less evil than the other... or to believe the president has more power than they actually do... only propagates the system that preempts the power of the voter and the people.

[TargeT]

Couldn't get to two of your links

The reddit one... well, I'm not convinced, still skimming through.



Both candidates have "scary" issues but to fall into the trap that one is better than or less evil than the other... or to believe the president has more power than they actually do... only propagates the system that preempts the power of the voter and the people.

Well, I feel one is a touch more of the (traditionally called) psychopath than the other, but yea.. it's all a distraction, best vote is no vote IMO, I won't even participate (and in fact, I cannot now due to where I live).. I'd love to see a 3% voter turn out.

[Intuitive Fish]

Couldn't get to two of your links

I'm not sure why those links didn't work. Let's try this again:

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-interrupts-hillary-clinton-51-times-during-sexist-presidential-503189

http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/


The reddit one... well, I'm not convinced, still skimming through.

You know, it's not easy to argue with over 100 different researched and documented articles from multiple sources.... But you're doing it!

And it's not that Donald and Hillary are the same in every which way; they're only using perceived or real differences - and assumed differences of the two major political parties - to create a "conflict" of which each claims to be the savior to rescue us poor, lost souls from the devil (the other candidate.)

Their sameness lies in their overall end goal - plutocracy - not in their highly funded campaign strategies to get there, IMO.

I wouldn't say Donald is a plant or is deliberately trying to lose, although it would seem that way. I think he genuinely wants to win but he genuinely doesn't understand politics. I mentioned that he's smart, but he uses his brains for business profiteering (as does Hillary.) Donald's ignorance of policy 1) makes him appear as though he doesn't care, i.e., doesn't want to win and 2) causes him to make outrageous off the cuff statements to compensate, also making it appear he's "doing himself in."

[TargeT]

News week:

Donald Trump interrupted Hillary Clinton 51 times during the presidential debate, prompting critics to lambast his attitide as sexist and misogynist.
uh, that's a bit of reaching.. ok that's a TON of reaching... he's an asshole, not sexist... that's what assholes do, they interrupt a lot. (btw, who uses a $7 word and then has a misspelling in the FIRST line of their article.. what is happening to journalism??)

Fortune:
What the crap was that article even about? (oh, more hearsay)

Yep, trump is an asshole, funny that the article tries to pin him as "racist" against Muslims (NOT a race).. That's more reaching... he's not PC, that's not illegal.. all of his comments make sense for a person with zero tact that thinks of themselves as awesome.




You know, it's not easy to argue with over 100 different researched and documented articles from multiple sources.... But you're doing it!
"

How many of those articles have you actually read? I'm up to 8 completely read and 10 skimmed... Those are ALL opinion pieces.. yes people don't like trump, I get it.

Actually that's a pretty common tactic when you have nothing, just pile the nothings up as big as you can and point at the big scary pile... so far I see nothing from the reddit link, a lot of accusations, no convictions, no "hand written statemetns" no "video recordings" nothing but what is referred to as "hearsay".

Funny thing about reddit, it's basically a "peer review" forum, the thread you linked isn't popular for a reason, even the author complains about it in his very own post.





And it's not that Donald and Hillary are the same in every which way; they're only using perceived or real differences - and assumed differences of the two major political parties - to create a "conflict" of which each claims to be the savior to rescue us poor, lost souls from the devil (the other candidate.)

well, there's a couple of distinct differences.

Hillary should be in jail, I've worked with classified material since I was a teenager & I know that she should be in jail for quite a while due to the private email server situation.
Hillary is connected (via mostly circumstantial evidence) to over 50 suspicious deaths
Hillary and her foundation CLEARLY took advantage in Haiti.


Hillary has a very very long record of "walking the line", she; like trump took advantage of loosely written laws. That's one of the few things they have in common



Their sameness lies in their overall end goal - plutocracy - not in their highly funded campaign strategies to get there, IMO.

Clintion has raised 3x the amount that Trump has raised; I'd say one campaign is highly funded. (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/).. haha


I wouldn't say Donald is a plant or is deliberately trying to lose, although it would seem that way. I think he genuinely wants to win but he genuinely doesn't understand politics. I mentioned that he's smart, but he uses his brains for business profiteering (as does Hillary.) Donald's ignorance of policy 1) makes him appear as though he doesn't care, i.e., doesn't want to win and 2) causes him to make outrageous off the cuff statements to compensate, also making it appear he's "doing himself in."

I think Donald is clearly winning against insane odds (she has the entire media backing her, google, facebook, even the republicans are helping her).

I don't think he understands politics well either, but I see that as a good thing.

Which policies has he shown ignorance on?

He's very strong where it matters, trade, immigration, taxation, fiscal policy, war, interventionism... you know, all the things we are seriously having issues with right now?

Those outrageous statements are a part of why his campaign has spent 1/3 less than Hillary.. it's a tactic strait from the book "Art of the Deal".

We see the situation very differently.

But all that aside..


Their sameness lies in their overall end goal - plutocracy -

I don't doubt either one wouldn't be "more of the same", neither will do any thing significant to improve the situation we are in.

I just think one could be far worse based on her past actions (not hearsay).

[Sueanne47]

In this video the Donald said "let mobil go in ~ and take the oil" ???!! isnt that a wake up call to the American people that he has the same agenda as Killary?

eTT9-I4FQG0

[TargeT]

In this video the Donald said "let mobil go in ~ and take the oil" ???!! isnt that a wake up call to the American people that he has the same agenda as Killary?


and he sounds pretty ridiculous, I'm sure his advisors were saying that he should say something about stopping ISIS from selling oil... but he says "lets take the oil" haha.. Sometimes I wonder about his brain power.. I think he's very clever,not very intelligent.

[Sueanne47]

He's doing a U turn on Russia now, saying they broke the Syria deal and Putin doesnt respect the US leaders! someone please shut him up :tape2:

WOZxJvmN3mE

[Intuitive Fish]

News week:

Donald Trump interrupted Hillary Clinton 51 times during the presidential debate, prompting critics to lambast his attitide as sexist and misogynist.
uh, that's a bit of reaching.. ok that's a TON of reaching... he's an asshole, not sexist... that's what assholes do, they interrupt a lot. (btw, who uses a $7 word and then has a misspelling in the FIRST line of their article.. what is happening to journalism??)

The reason why men interrupting women is sexist/misogynist is because of the great phenomena called "mansplaining" which is not fun when you're on the other side of that equation. It assumes the man is the expert, the woman is subordinate and it turns what could be a worthwhile discussion into some kind of a fierce competition. Not to mention it perpetuates institutionalized male domination, as if men are on some insecure power trip.

I'd reply to the rest of your post but eh, that's exhausting, bro. There's a point where a conversation becomes a waste of oxygen. You and I seem to have reached that point aeons ago.

But I do have some other thoughts to share for anyone who's still tempted to fall for Trump's campaign tactics. (Hillary's crimes seem blatant enough around these parts.)

Do we really think Donald is going to take down the oligarchy or even has the power to do so? I don't see how it's even possible Donald isn't in some kind of collusion with people in power positions and bankers, but for argument's sake, let's say he really does despise the powers that be and he's the lone ranger up against them all. Why is that?

It clearly isn't because he wants to remove wealth disparity in the U.S. and help people in poverty. He doesn't use his wealth to help people. He uses it to make more money. He's been very clear and open about that. Not to mention he's made his (vastly overstated) "wealth" through nepotism, abusing bankruptcy laws and bribing political officials.... He would take the wealth and power of the oligarchy for himself if he could. And that's exactly his motive.

But he's not going to achieve that even if he gets elected because as we should all know by now, the president doesn't have that kind of power. The president is just a puppet and a distraction, and Donald is just a dangling carrot.

But guess what's been happening while everyone's distracted with the U.S. presidential election? That's right, business as usual. More surveillance. More insider trading. More corporate and billionaire tax evasion. More tax money being funneled into the highly profitable war industry. More war crimes. And therefore, a growing immigration problem. Notice how more people seem to be dying young? More people are getting sick from preventable disease and mental illness. And more people are transitioning from the middle class to the lower class....

To be fair, even Bernie Sanders wouldn't have been able to achieve what he fought for, even if he wasn't deliberately taken out of the race (which likely included threats, looking at the Clinton body count.) But Bernie probably has more power as a senator than a president. The president is just a public face to keep the masses from seeing the wizard behind the curtain.

Donald has adopted (stolen) a lot of Bernie's campaign policies because they were so effective. But Bernie was campaigning for socialism. Any time you have capitalism, you need socialism. Otherwise, people at the top will destroy everyone at the bottom and then people at the bottom will start uprising. I'm not saying I'm a proponent of capitalism or socialism. I'm just saying one can't work without the other. When they're out of balance, that creates an endless supply of socioeconomic problems. They're largely out of balance in the U.S. while we might see relative peace and happiness in more socialist countries such as Denmark and Finland.... As long as people have their needs met, they'll keep quiet and allow the government, corporations and elite to do whatever they want. Whether that's good or bad, at least socialism ensures people's needs are met or does what it has to do to avoid uprisings.

But that's not Donald's primary motive. His primary motive is capitalism, and it's the same with Hillary except she works in more covert ways. This is how you know Donald doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about people struggling. He doesn't care about people at all. He cares about that thing we all care about: money. Except he runs people over for it.

[Sueanne47]

Rally at Henderson Nevada, Trump doesnt care if Russia knocks the hell out of ISIS ~ as long as he gets the oil.

KdBrOmqRrVg

This guy is also pushing the envelope on Putin:

byKv4wqr7L0

[TargeT]

The reason why men interrupting women is sexist/misogynist is because of the great phenomena called "mansplaining" which is not fun when you're on the other side of that equation. It assumes the man is the expert, the woman is subordinate and it turns what could be a worthwhile discussion into some kind of a fierce competition. Not to mention it perpetuates institutionalized male domination, as if men are on some insecure power trip.

I think you just mansplained (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-oe-daum-mansplaining-20150108-column.html) that to me....wait, is there such a thing as womansplaining? Any more obvious gender steriotypes or genderslurrs you'd like to toss around? I know misandry is super popular now, but really?

"Mansplaining (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mansplaining&defid=6958748)" ... is a sexist feminist gender bias term.

How about "just an asshole" he interrupts men to,... these regressive terms are comical. More on why this is a terrible term here (http://vaslittlecrow.com/blog/2011/10/27/let-me-explain-why-mansplaining-isnt-cool-in-a-condescending-and-long-winded-manner/)


I'd reply to the rest of your post but eh, that's exhausting, bro. There's a point where a conversation becomes a waste of oxygen. You and I seem to have reached that point aeons ago.

If this were "our" conversation I'd agree.

This is a public forum, ideas are put forth and should have counter ideas brought up so readers have the opportunity to decide for themselves... some people don't have a lot of time for referenced research, I try to provide that as I do have the opportunity to do so.




Do we really think Donald is going to take down the oligarchy or even has the power to do so? I don't see how it's even possible Donald isn't in some kind of collusion with people in power positions and bankers, but for argument's sake, let's say he really does despise the powers that be and he's the lone ranger up against them all. Why is that?

I'd say if anything he's a "political" lone ranger, but as far as the rest of the system goes.. he's just as bad, he represents the side of the coin that normally isn't seen and just pays special interest lobbies to "donate to" politicians for him (he's been pretty vocal about "paying" politicians). That's a fun twist, something we haven't openly had before; but will it change anything really?

I highly doubt it.


It clearly isn't because he wants to remove wealth disparity in the U.S. and help people in poverty. He doesn't use his wealth to help people. He uses it to make more money. He's been very clear and open about that. Not to mention he's made his (vastly overstated) "wealth" through nepotism, abusing bankruptcy laws and bribing political officials.... He would take the wealth and power of the oligarchy for himself if he could. And that's exactly his motive.

That's pretty damn American though, how much are you doing for charities? Most people are less vocal about it, but share his sentiment.. take care of your self first. I believe in that myself.

Not sure how he got his wealth through nepotism, his dad gave him a bunch of money to start, that's not nepotism, can you provide other examples?

you cannot "abuse" laws, you can follow them or not follow them; he apparently follows the law. I use many of the same "tax shelters" that he does, everyone should... even his "bribery" was done totally legally (as far as we know, or do you have an example of that?), don't hate the player, hate the game.

Making baseless claims isn't helpful, provide examples for your accusations if your serious about them, if you're just repeating talking points,, meh we have the MSM for that...



But he's not going to achieve that even if he gets elected because as we should all know by now, the president doesn't have that kind of power. The president is just a puppet and a distraction, and Donald is just a dangling carrot.

But guess what's been happening while everyone's distracted with the U.S. presidential election? That's right, business as usual. More surveillance. More insider trading. More corporate and billionaire tax evasion. More tax money being funneled into the highly profitable war industry. More war crimes. And therefore, a growing immigration problem. Notice how more people seem to be dying young? More people are getting sick from preventable disease and mental illness. And more people are transitioning from the middle class to the lower class....


Didn't he just flipflop on Russia (https://politicalvelcraft.org/2016/10/05/trumps-flip-flop-tragic-zionist-stupidity-believes-u-s-was-invited-to-syria-and-u-s-bombing-syrian-army-days-after-kerry-armistice-was-russias-fault/)? that's pretty damn concerning to me.


To be fair, even Bernie Sanders wouldn't have been able to achieve what he fought for, even if he wasn't deliberately taken out of the race (which likely included threats, looking at the Clinton body count.) But Bernie probably has more power as a senator than a president. The president is just a public face to keep the masses from seeing the wizard behind the curtain.

Bernies wife was caught on a live mic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNE_cjSFCXU) saying things before the nomination that makes it pretty clear he was never in to win, just a distraction. But I agree, none of them would do much for "us".



Donald has adopted (stolen) a lot of Bernie's campaign policies because they were so effective. But Bernie was campaigning for socialism. Any time you have capitalism, you need socialism. Otherwise, people at the top will destroy everyone at the bottom and then people at the bottom will start uprising.

Well, we don't have capitalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) do we, we have Fascism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)... & no, you do not balance capitalism with socialism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism), that's mixing oil and water.. Capitalism is an economic theory, Fascism and Socialism (the two opposites) are governmental theories.


But that's not Donald's primary motive. His primary motive is capitalism, and it's the same with Hillary except she works in more covert ways. This is how you know Donald doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about people struggling. He doesn't care about people at all. He cares about that thing we all care about: money. Except he runs people over for it.

His primary motive is Fascism, he wants government to help corporations make money... just like he has done his whole life, he's the best example of a modern fascist I can think of (using tax & bankruptcy laws to his corporations advantage, I'm sure some of his proposed "trade deals" will benefit him as well).

He might legally run people over for money, but he doesn't actually run people over for money (unless you have an example?)

[A Voice from the Mountains]

The reason why men interrupting women is sexist/misogynist is because of the great phenomena called "mansplaining" which is not fun when you're on the other side of that equation.

I'm already not having fun. "Mansplaining?" What the hell is that? Are you being sexist right now against men? Is there a "womansplaining" too or does it only work one way? Sounds to me like it only works way based on all the other anti-man sexist stuff you are saying.

Let me guess, because women are weaker and more sensitive (only when it suits your sexist argument of course!) then men are automatically bullies for ...

A) talking loudly,
B) interrupting,
C) using a "not nice" tone of voice?

If men and women are really equal then why are you saying "mainsplaining"? Men can interrupt men and women can interrupt women, but if a man interrupts a woman then he's sexist? You have to be joking. Sounds to me like you really have something against men. That would make you the sexist here.

Equality is equality. You can't have equality and then complain that women are too weak to be interrupted and interrupting a woman is sexist and that all men are big insecure bullies. That is sexist as hell.



It assumes the man is the expert, the woman is subordinate and it turns what could be a worthwhile discussion into some kind of a fierce competition. Not to mention it perpetuates institutionalized male domination, as if men are on some insecure power trip.

Oh, so now when a man interrupts a woman, he's exhibiting "institutionalized male dominance" and is on "some insecure power trip."

I can't believe how incredibly sexist your post is. I couldn't even read through the rest of it, you are so hypocritical. I am thoroughly disgusted and I hope you can learn to get over your intense bigotry and hatred for men. If I said this kind of stuff about women it would be totally unacceptable. What makes you think it's acceptable for you to stereotype and talk down to all men like this?

"Mansplaining"... Good lord. :facepalm:

[Sueanne47]

Thankfully not all men & women are control freaks, I think Donald Trump has been softening his bullish nature for the sake of the election. Now, he is showing his true colours, he is *NOT* neutral!

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Neutral about what?

Maybe because we have had so many bland and boring politicians lately, people have come to almost expect as a requirement that politicians be boring and bland and intensely politically correct. God forbid someone have a lot of energy, say what's on their mind or especially have controversial opinions. In other words God forbid that we have a genuine human being telling us their real thoughts instead of just telling us what we want to hear.

[Sueanne47]

'not' neutral ~ meaning that he supports the neocon/zionist NWO agenda. He supports Israel which is the zionist homeland, his son-in-law is a zionist (I think his daughter is too), he would take the oil out of any country in the middle east...like his mate rupert murdoch is trying to do in Syria. He wouldnt be where he is today in manhatton without the help of the rothchilds/zionists bank.

[Flash]

I wish for both of you, bsbray and target, a reincarnation in a woman body, preferably black, and preferably of poor origins but with a great brain and heart trying to express both in a corporate world or in politics, in Asia or the Middle East. And I very much wish for you to remember your actual incarnation and your ways of thinking / behaving. Towards women (bsbray and target) or towards races (target).

You will both probably realize only then how different the situations for women or non white races actually are from what you thought you knew in this lifetime here. For some, it is the only way to understand what other's shoes feel like and to become more empathetic/less caught into one's belief system.

Xplaining, in corporate meetings or boards, i have been through it hundreds of times. And the guys would not only not see their behavior, they would not acknowledge it when shown to Them right away with specific behaviors.
Same in between races or different cultures.

I did go through such transformation as a late mom. I thought prior to giving birth that I understood what most of my friends who had raised children had been going through. The wake up was drastic. not only didnt i understand them, but i was frankly arrogant in my talks with them not even realising it. I now thank them for their patience with me.

I am not even asking you to understand guys, i know you can't, no more than I could understsnd parents prior to being one. But I am asking you to try to see that there are differences in how women or blacks are treated. (This is not an equation either, blacks are treated differently than woman and both differently than white males). No judgments. Just observations, plain and simple.

And yes i seem off topic but in fact Trump is probably one of the best example to observe these differences in his treatment of women and latino/blacks.

And in my views, Trump is far from neutral on about anything: women, latinos, middle east, economy, politics , name it. I find him quite extreme for the most part (and i totally dislike Clinton, so my views of Trump are not to compare them. I think that if both are the only ones American got to represent them, it is quite pathetic and dangerous for the world)



The reason why men interrupting women is sexist/misogynist is because of the great phenomena called "mansplaining" which is not fun when you're on the other side of that equation.

I'm already not having fun. "Mansplaining?" What the hell is that? Are you being sexist right now against men? Is there a "womansplaining" too or does it only work one way? Sounds to me like it only works way based on all the other anti-man sexist stuff you are saying.

Let me guess, because women are weaker and more sensitive (only when it suits your sexist argument of course!) then men are automatically bullies for ...

A) talking loudly,
B) interrupting,
C) using a "not nice" tone of voice?

If men and women are really equal then why are you saying "mainsplaining"? Men can interrupt men and women can interrupt women, but if a man interrupts a woman then he's sexist? You have to be joking. Sounds to me like you really have something against men. That would make you the sexist here.

Equality is equality. You can't have equality and then complain that women are too weak to be interrupted and interrupting a woman is sexist and that all men are big insecure bullies. That is sexist as hell.



It assumes the man is the expert, the woman is subordinate and it turns what could be a worthwhile discussion into some kind of a fierce competition. Not to mention it perpetuates institutionalized male domination, as if men are on some insecure power trip.

Oh, so now when a man interrupts a woman, he's exhibiting "institutionalized male dominance" and is on "some insecure power trip."

I can't believe how incredibly sexist your post is. I couldn't even read through the rest of it, you are so hypocritical. I am thoroughly disgusted and I hope you can learn to get over your intense bigotry and hatred for men. If I said this kind of stuff about women it would be totally unacceptable. What makes you think it's acceptable for you to stereotype and talk down to all men like this?

"Mansplaining"... Good lord. :facepalm:

[TargeT]

I wish for both of you, bsbray and target, a reincarnation in a woman body, preferably black, and preferably of poor origins but with a great brain and heart trying to express both in a corporate world or in politics, in Asia or the Middle East. And I very much wish for you to remember your actual incarnation and your ways of thinking / behaving. Towards women (bsbray and target) or towards races (target).

You will both probably realize only then how different the situations for women or non white races actually are from what you thought you knew in this lifetime here. For some, it is the only way to understand what other's shoes feel like and to become more empathetic/less caught into one's belief system.

Xplaining, in corporate meetings or boards, i have been through it hundreds of times. And the guys would not only not see their behavior, they would not acknowledge it when shown to Them right away with specific behaviors.
Same in between races or different cultures.

I did go through such transformation as a late mom. I thought prior to giving birth that I understood what most of my friends who had raised children had been going through. The wake up was drastic. not only didnt i understand them, but i was frankly arrogant in my talks with them not even realising it. I now thank them for their patience with me.

I am not even asking you to understand guys, i know you can't, no more than I could understsnd parents prior to being one. But I am asking you to try to see that there are differences in how women or blacks are treated. (This is not an equation either, blacks are treated differently than woman and both differently than white males). No judgments. Just observations, plain and simple.



Thanks for womansplaning that to me.


You've (now) repeatedly called me sexist and racist & I think its funny that your doing exactly what you think/say other people are doing in a completely un-selfaware way; maybe that's why you champion these causes, you innately see it in your self? You exhibit misandrist behaviors all the time while simultaneously painting women broadly as victims. This is not a healthy mind set and you WILL see racism and sexism and ablism and any other ism all the time when your mindset is such.



And yes i seem off topic but in fact Trump is probably one of the best example to observe these differences in his treatment of women and latino/blacks. And in my views, Trump is far from neutral on about anything: women, latinos, middle east, economy, politics , name it. I find him quite extreme for the most part

What about men? he treats them the same way, but that doesn't fit your narrative does it?

Your toxic Politically Correct pushes do nothing but further the problem, a person like Trump (or myself) who speaks their mind WITH OUT THE FEAR you are trying to constantly instill via Politically Correct Thought Policing.

I wont be bullied by your incessant insults and insinuations that I am a racist or sexist, I know that I am not.

Instead of tossing out these insinuations why don't you give me examples of how I'm sexist and racist?

or anything productive?

[Flash]

I now know i wont be able to make you see things differently Target for the most part, although you may have a bit for the obesity problems (from the videos you posted later on in that thread, on guts health, i concluded you did research it).

So now, i am left with speaking my mind, when i think i should, regardless of your reactions,without fear either.

And, i am far from politically correct in my own life. Just look at my comments on Islam for example.

Most of my comments are based on personal repeated experience (one ot two events are not enough to conclude anything), and on my observations. Take it or not, believe it of not, it does not matter, i will still say what i think.



I wish for both of you, bsbray and target, a reincarnation in a woman body, preferably black, and preferably of poor origins but with a great brain and heart trying to express both in a corporate world or in politics, in Asia or the Middle East. And I very much wish for you to remember your actual incarnation and your ways of thinking / behaving. Towards women (bsbray and target) or towards races (target).

You will both probably realize only then how different the situations for women or non white races actually are from what you thought you knew in this lifetime here. For some, it is the only way to understand what other's shoes feel like and to become more empathetic/less caught into one's belief system.

Xplaining, in corporate meetings or boards, i have been through it hundreds of times. And the guys would not only not see their behavior, they would not acknowledge it when shown to Them right away with specific behaviors.
Same in between races or different cultures.

I did go through such transformation as a late mom. I thought prior to giving birth that I understood what most of my friends who had raised children had been going through. The wake up was drastic. not only didnt i understand them, but i was frankly arrogant in my talks with them not even realising it. I now thank them for their patience with me.

I am not even asking you to understand guys, i know you can't, no more than I could understsnd parents prior to being one. But I am asking you to try to see that there are differences in how women or blacks are treated. (This is not an equation either, blacks are treated differently than woman and both differently than white males). No judgments. Just observations, plain and simple.



Thanks for womansplaning that to me.


You've (now) repeatedly called me sexist and racist & I think its funny that your doing exactly what you think/say other people are doing in a completely un-selfaware way; maybe that's why you champion these causes, you innately see it in your self? You exhibit misandrist behaviors all the time while simultaneously painting women broadly as victims. This is not a healthy mind set and you WILL see racism and sexism and ablism and any other ism all the time when your mindset is such.



And yes i seem off topic but in fact Trump is probably one of the best example to observe these differences in his treatment of women and latino/blacks. And in my views, Trump is far from neutral on about anything: women, latinos, middle east, economy, politics , name it. I find him quite extreme for the most part

What about men? he treats them the same way, but that doesn't fit your narrative does it?

Your toxic Politically Correct pushes do nothing but further the problem, a person like Trump (or myself) who speaks their mind WITH OUT THE FEAR you are trying to constantly instill via Politically Correct Thought Policing.

I wont be bullied by your incessant insults and insinuations that I am a racist or sexist, I know that I am not.

Instead of tossing out these insinuations why don't you give me examples of how I'm sexist and racist?

or anything productive?

[TargeT]

I now know i wont be able to make you see things differently
well, I wouldn't want to make anyone do anything, but try some logic, I respond to logic, facts & common sense very well. Personal anecdotes are too easily colored by perspective & are not as useful, unfortunately, unless they are paired with evidence of some sort. (saying you saw bigfoot, and have hung out with him all your life, but don't have any thing other than your word on it... well, I'm not going to believe in bigfoot just based on that)



So now, i am left with speaking my mind, when i think i should, regardless of your reactions,without fear either.


As it should be, why did we need to say all this to get to that point? :)

[turiya]

Jeff Rense Interview with Tim Rifat. Tim Rifat is a mind-control expert.... He will Mansplain it all to you...


Jeff Rense & Tim Rifat - Satanic Hollywood...
Pitt-Jolie and Depp-Heard
(Published on Oct 4, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iuVffUozaw____________________________

https://thebridgehead.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/trump-caveman.jpg
____________________________


FULL INTERVIEW

(10/05/2016)
Hour 2 – Tim Rifat –
Satanic Hollywood

http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TALKSHOE_MP3_PLAYER.png (http://www.talkshoe.com/resources/talkshoe/images/swf/lastEpisodePlayer.swf?fileUrl=https://archive.org/download/Rense.20161005/Rense.20161005.2of2.mp3)
Tim Rifat Website (http://mindovermatter.ru/)

[Sueanne47]

https://thebridgehead.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/trump-caveman.jpg

LOL :ROFL:

[A Voice from the Mountains]

'not' neutral ~ meaning that he supports the neocon/zionist NWO agenda. He supports Israel which is the zionist homeland, his son-in-law is a zionist (I think his daughter is too), he would take the oil out of any country in the middle east...like his mate rupert murdoch is trying to do in Syria. He wouldnt be where he is today in manhatton without the help of the rothchilds/zionists bank.

You are throwing around a categorizations but I don't see "globalism" mentioned anywhere. The NWO is globalism. Trump is a nationalist.

When you realize the difference between nationalist and globalist agendas then you can clearly see where each of these two candidates falls and the difference is night and day. In past elections I would say that you are absolutely right that both candidates are working together, like Romney and Obama or Kerry and Bush. But, and I don't know if you've caught on to this yet or not, but this is not another Kerry vs Bush election. They were both globalists. All of the recent candidates until Trump have been globalists.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I wish for both of you, bsbray and target, a reincarnation in a woman body, preferably black, and preferably of poor origins but with a great brain and heart trying to express both in a corporate world or in politics, in Asia or the Middle East. And I very much wish for you to remember your actual incarnation and your ways of thinking / behaving. Towards women (bsbray and target) or towards races (target).

I'm far from saying that sexism doesn't exist. I'm saying you better be careful not to get too zealous in your anti-man complaining or you're a sexist yourself. Limit yourself to specific cases and not wide brush strokes and you should be okay. Right?

I know you are a tough woman Flash. Try to think of a solution to sexism that doesn't involve name-calling and causing antagonism between men and women, or resorting to ludicrous accusations of sexism over the most trivial things. If you want to get that damn trivial, then the accusations of sexism can very easily go both ways and I'm not afraid to make those accusations. My accusations of sexism are 100% as valid as Intuitive Fish's. By that reasoning if you even look at me wrong I'm going to call you a sexist.

If a man interrupts a woman and this is called sexism, then what is called when a man interrupts another man? Generic discrimination? You know that's a load of horse manure. You want equal treatment as men, but then you want to be treated like a delicate little flower too? Is that it? If women want to demand equal rights as men then you should be able to take verbal abuse equally as any man. Otherwise the "equality" you're talking about is submission of men to women. That is also sexism. That is not the solution to your problem.

We may even want to go back to the drawing board and reconsider this idea of equality in general. We could start with anatomy lessons and discussions about differences in psychology and hormone balances as well. "Different" and "equal" are not synonyms and being different is not a bad thing. Legal rights are different than being entitled to something just because of what genitals you were born with. This has nothing to do with a woman's legal right to anything. The problem with some people (ie the people accusing Trump of sexism just because he interrupted Hillary) is not actually sexism but sheer stupidity.

[Sueanne47]

You are throwing around a categorizations but I don't see "globalism" mentioned anywhere. The NWO is globalism. Trump is a nationalist.

NO! Globalists *are* zionists! the new world order is the Zionists agenda. All presidents in US government have to tow the line when they come to power wether they are republican or democratic..they are just puppets. There are 10 secret societies above a president that run the world, they run the US government, british government, EU government, Nato, United nations etc.

Illuminati
Freemasons
Skull & Bones
The Bilderberg group
Priory of Sion
Bohemian Grove
Comittee of 300
Knights Templar
Trilateral Comission
Council of Foreign relations

[A Voice from the Mountains]

NO! Globalists *are* zionists! the new world order is the Zionists agenda.

To me this is like apples and food. Apples are food. But food is not necessarily apples. Food could also take other forms. In the same way Zionism may be a form of globalism (one that puts the center of attention on Israel) but globalism is not necessarily Zionism. Zionism in itself, as you know, is putting Israel first, Israel being a puppet of the Rothschilds who created it (or Rottenchilds as J.P. Farrell is calling them).

Israel is being batted around a bit in the Middle East because of shifting regional powers, but even if Israel were totally wiped back off of the map we would still see globalism. The EU is another model of globalism, and so is the UN. The whole idea of a New World Order is another approach to globalism. They even have this thing called "alter-globalism" now which claims to solve the problems being caused by globalism as it's been implemented so far.

Then there's the eradication of borders, such as through illegal immigration and terrible trade deals ("free trade"). Those are forms of globalism too. So even without the Israel connection all of these things would still exist.

Israel is a huge lobby in the US, and I understand that. I don't doubt that people around Trump are even involved in it. Trump is no saint, but not many people are when you get down to it, let alone people in business or politics. But getting rid of free trade agreements, enforcing border security, and most everything else Trump talks about is nationalist and so is counter to globalist agendas like having no borders.

[Sueanne47]

To be honest bsbray, I think the election is just a distraction to what is going on with obumma....he may not leave office. There has been a lot of activity sighted around America with armoured trucks & equipment shipped all over the place by rail, and walmarts being turned into what look like Fema camps. Maybe the whole WW3 was part of the plan to be brought about just before the election final.

Also Hillary is getting more exposed every week

[Intuitive Fish]

Greaaat.... Unchecked racism and sexism on this forum? Wonderful. At least Flash's excellent post saved the day.

Guys, did you read my explanation of mansplaining? Because you're doing that. You're assuming to be the authority on women's experiences, but you're not women. Do you know what we ate for brunch this morning too? I bet you do! And I'm sure you have some very important opinions on that.

So, there's this thing called patriarchy. That's p-a-t-r-i-a-r-c-h-y. We've all been living under it for at least the last 6,000 years. That means men were the authoritarian head of the household, men were the highest authority by way of tribal leaders, kings and priests... men wrote the history books, men owned the property and men were the voters.... It means currenthe majority of global political leaders, Wall Street bankers, CEO's and business owners, upper managers, military and police, science and tech panels, doctors, medical group executives, education decision-makers and other public leaders are men. The fewer women who are in those roles are expected to uphold masculine standards.... It also means the majority of violent acts such as murder, mass shootings, rape and domestic violence are perpetrated by men .... Need proof? All you have to do is open your eyes.

If we lived under a matriarchy then you'd get to complain about sexism and womansplaining. But until then, the only thing you get to pretend rage about is institutionalized male domination.

Calling out misogyny doesn't mean we hate men. It means we respect women, and ourselves, and would like to see all humans treated with respect in all of our unique and diverse ways. Patriarchy is oppressive to everyone, including men. It's that undue pressure to suppress your emotions, your intuition, empathy and be the authority on everyone and everything, even when you have no idea what you're talking about.

This absolutely ties into Donald Trump. He didn't just interrupt Hillary once or twice, but 51 times in a 90 minute highly publicized debate. His ignorance on political issues is ignored or written off (probably because of sexism.) Then everyone wonders if he's deliberately trying to lose. No, he really is that ignorant, offensive and self-promoting - all the time. The world has had to suffer his rich spoiled brat exploitation for the last 40 years, but somehow he's running for the president of the U.S. while billions of women and other suppressed people could do a far better job. But they rarely get that chance, right? Because money buys politics. Thankfully, feminism and other activists have made progress and is in the process of changing the way things are, but it hasn't been without indescribable oppression and violence against us.

TargeT, are you asking your disingenuous, non-questions again? If you're really not convinced Donald loves money, follow these steps:


Turn on your computer.
Open an internet browser.
Type "trump financial fraud" in search bar.
See all the evidence.


Sure, MSM mostly colludes with Hillary. But Hillary has a biased force against her too, such as sexism. Just because there's a bias or prejudice doesn't mean we ignore any possible evidence against them. In fact, a bias often means someone is going to go through the trouble to dig up and expose their crimes instead of justifying them under the human tendency toward savior/hero/celebrity worship.

Donald even has his own fraudulent "Clinton Foundation":

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/


Note: While Hillary has absolutely suffered under sexism, that doesn't mean her crimes are justified. For example:


"Hillary is not fit to be president because she's a female." <--sexist

"Hillary is not fit to be president because of her war crimes, war profiteering, charity fraud, corporate and media collusion, etc." <--not sexist


The real question to ask here isn't who is the better candidate or who is less evil. That's just a waste of energy. The real question is, why are U.S. citizens being forced to vote for two candidates they don't like, trust, respect or even want as a political leader? I think that is a very, very important question.

[Flash]

Many many thanks. You are spot on.

I am being asked to be logical and to present facts. This is exactly what i did. My own facts findings in everyday life. But no, it is not good enough.

The fact is that simple emotionless pure observation will show hundreds of examples of what i wrote on a daily basis. But no, i have to show scientific research. I wonder if i would be asked the same if i were a man.

I remember an old exrememy bright and Harvard teacher on Avalon who was highly considered for his sound opinions or assessments. Well, he avoided to have members know he was a she because he did not want to lose the pleasure of sound discussions because of mansplaining. I learned he was a she on another forum, by accident. She was Akhenaten, for old members who may remember him. We do have to use such stratagems at times.

I also remember being in a university course 3years ago, with a male professor. A student asked a question, the professor acknowledged not knowing the answer. So i answered since i knew. I am an older well dressed woman. The professor said, once i was finished with the answer 'and who said so?' I blushed, recuperated my breath and answered 'i said so, i am an expert in that field and i am never asked that question by my customers'. I am 99.9% sure that if i had been a well dressed man, same age as mine, my answer would have been taken for granted without any challenge.

Those situations happen times and times again, regardless of the generation. And i must add some women are guilty of the same towards women. No later than yesterday my 19 years old daughter came back with a discrimination story happening to a group of female students being put second behind the only male on her student job at college, done by a woman boss. She was not sure how to analyse what she had lived. I had to tell her she was correct. Some somen are are sexist towards women, she is learning life i told her.

Thousands of studies will not make a dent in the beliefs of those who lost the ability to simply observe, without the judgments filters.

Now, look at Trump behavior, history and comments. No need to say more, it is obvious. Same with Clinton except for job sexism, she has many somen around it seems. But for god sake, how broken is a system that has only those pathetic figures to offer the public as governing potentials.



Greaaat.... Unchecked racism and sexism on this forum? Wonderful. At least Flash's excellent post saved the day.

Guys, did you read my explanation of mansplaining? Because you're doing that. You're assuming to be the authority on women's experiences, but you're not women. Do you know what we ate for brunch this morning too? I bet you do! And I'm sure you have some very important opinions on that.

So, there's this thing called patriarchy. That's p-a-t-r-i-a-r-c-h-y. We've all been living under it for at least the last 6,000 years. That means men were the authoritarian head of the household, men were the highest authority by way of tribal leaders, kings and priests... men wrote the history books, men owned the property and men were the voters.... It means currenthe majority of global political leaders, Wall Street bankers, CEO's and business owners, upper managers, military and police, science and tech panels, doctors, medical group executives, education decision-makers and other public leaders are men. The fewer women who are in those roles are expected to uphold masculine standards.... It also means the majority of violent acts such as murder, mass shootings, rape and domestic violence are perpetrated by men .... Need proof? All you have to do is open your eyes.

If we lived under a matriarchy then you'd get to complain about sexism and womansplaining. But until then, the only thing you get to pretend rage about is institutionalized male domination.

Calling out misogyny doesn't mean we hate men. It means we respect women, and ourselves, and would like to see all humans treated with respect in all of our unique and diverse ways. Patriarchy is oppressive to everyone, including men. It's that undue pressure to suppress your emotions, your intuition, empathy and be the authority on everyone and everything, even when you have no idea what you're talking about.

This absolutely ties into Donald Trump. He didn't just interrupt Hillary once or twice, but 51 times in a 90 minute highly publicized debate. His ignorance on political issues is ignored or written off (probably because of sexism.) Then everyone wonders if he's deliberately trying to lose. No, he really is that ignorant, offensive and self-promoting - all the time. The world has had to suffer his rich spoiled brat exploitation for the last 40 years, but somehow he's running for the president of the U.S. while billions of women and other suppressed people could do a far better job. But they rarely get that chance, right? Because money buys politics. Thankfully, feminism and other activists have made progress and is in the process of changing the way things are, but it hasn't been without indescribable oppression and violence against us.

TargeT, are you asking your disingenuous, non-questions again? If you're really not convinced Donald loves money, follow these steps:


Turn on your computer.
Open an internet browser.
Type "trump financial fraud" in search bar.
See all the evidence.


Sure, MSM mostly colludes with Hillary. But Hillary has a biased force against her too, such as sexism. Just because there's a bias or prejudice doesn't mean we ignore any possible evidence against them. In fact, a bias often means someone is going to go through the trouble to dig up and expose their crimes instead of justifying them under the human tendency toward savior/hero/celebrity worship.

Donald even has his own fraudulent "Clinton Foundation":

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/donald-trump-scandals/474726/


Note: While Hillary has absolutely suffered under sexism, that doesn't mean her crimes are justified. For example:


"Hillary is not fit to be president because she's a female." <--sexist

"Hillary is not fit to be president because of her war crimes, war profiteering, charity fraud, corporate and media collusion, etc." <--not sexist


The real question to ask here isn't who is the better candidate or who is less evil. That's just a waste of energy. The real question is, why are U.S. citizens being forced to vote for two candidates they don't like, trust, respect or even want as a political leader? I think that is a very, very important question.

[TargeT]

Greaaat.... Unchecked racism and sexism on this forum? Wonderful. At least Flash's excellent post saved the day.

Guys, did you read my explanation of mansplaining? Because you're doing that. You're assuming to be the authority on women's experiences, but you're not women. Do you know what we ate for brunch this morning too? I bet you do! And I'm sure you have some very important opinions on that.

And your assuming to be an authority on mens experience by telling us what we are doing (when we aren't and we tell you we aren't) and using a common genderslurr to do it.


So, there's this thing called patriarchy. That's p-a-t-r-i-a-r-c-h-y. We've all been living under it for at least the last 6,000 years. That means men were the authoritarian head of the household, men were the highest authority by way of tribal leaders, kings and priests... men wrote the history books, men owned the property and men were the voters.... It means currenthe majority of global political leaders, Wall Street bankers, CEO's and business owners, upper managers, military and police, science and tech panels, doctors, medical group executives, education decision-makers and other public leaders are men. The fewer women who are in those roles are expected to uphold masculine standards.... It also means the majority of violent acts such as murder, mass shootings, rape and domestic violence are perpetrated by men .... Need proof? All you have to do is open your eyes.

So your telling me that men have managed/dominated the world for 6k years.. & you expected the jobs they generally end up into (which inherently will be the ones that are prevalent due to this "patriarchy") wouldn't be ones that fit men more than women, ones that do not take family into account, jobs that appeal to and require the use of logic over empathy?

Know why not many women are CEO's, Wall Street bankers, military, police, etc etc etc?

Because they choose not to be (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/many-women-dont-want-to-be-ceo-and-thats-ok-2013-12-13), they choose NOT to be slaves to the system, they choose NOT to work 80 hours a week, they often choose family life, a more realistic way of living... I applaud this choice and you berate for it?

Know why there aren't many women engineers or technical workers?

Because they choose not to do that
http://ei.marketwatch.com//Multimedia/2013/12/13/Photos/MG/MW-BQ881_angela_20131213093547_MG.jpg?uuid=e45834ce-6403-11e3-a426-00212803fad6

Men and women think very differently, why is it so strange that we would be attracted to different types of work?
https://www.dol.gov/wb/images/25mc_occupations_one.png
(Know whats ironic, DOL doesn't even make this chart for men.. how is that not sexist as hell?)

You seem to actively want to be divisive.



If we lived under a matriarchy then you'd get to complain about sexism and womansplaining. But until then, the only thing you get to pretend rage about is institutionalized male domination.

Oh yeah? is that the requirement?

No, you're womansplaing the **** outta me right now.. like very condescending, superior, explain what you think is obvious (o-b-v-i-o-u-s); but your so un-selfaware you apparently can't see that you are doing exactly what you preach against... quit holding up a mirror and yelling at it, I'm not your reflection.



Calling out misogyny doesn't mean we hate men.


Greaaat.... Unchecked racism and sexism on this forum?

Please call out my unchecked sexism, show me where it is.


This absolutely ties into Donald Trump. He didn't just interrupt Hillary once or twice, but 51 times in a 90 minute highly publicized debate. His ignorance on political issues is ignored or written off (probably because of sexism.) Then everyone wonders if he's deliberately trying to lose. No, he really is that ignorant, offensive and self-promoting - all the time. The world has had to suffer his rich spoiled brat exploitation for the last 40 years, but somehow he's running for the president of the U.S. while billions of women and other suppressed people could do a far better job. But they rarely get that chance, right? Because money buys politics.

Yeah, I think we already covered that he's an asshole & (IMO) not very intelligent... why does the frequency of his assholyness mean that he's suddenly sexist? He was constantly attempting to frame the conversation to his advantage, yes it was annoying and not the tactic I would choose, but then I'm not him.

Not sexist tho.. just asshole.



Thankfully, feminism and other activists have made progress and is in the process of changing the way things are, but it hasn't been without indescribable oppression and violence against us.
Oh no, third wave modern feminism has RE-gressed, not progressed & they are in the process of waking people up to the BS "PC" culture and how hypocritical modern feminists are, how prone to violence they are & how misandristic in general they are.
tkWgiIKJrFs


TargeT, are you asking your disingenuous, non-questions again? If you're really not convinced Donald loves money, follow these steps:

Where'd you get that idea from? I absolutely think he is Fascist as hell, quit projecting on me and read what I write ;)


Sure, MSM mostly colludes with Hillary. But Hillary has a biased force against her too, such as sexism.

I'd say Hillary is the CAUSE of a lot of sexism, the things she did to her husbands girlfriends and rape victims are pretty anti-female, especially if you read her arguments for the court rape case (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3729466/Child-rape-victim-comes-forward-time-40-years-call-Hillary-Clinton-liar-defended-rapist-smearing-blocking-evidence-callously-laughing-knew-guilty.html)



The real question to ask here isn't who is the better candidate or who is less evil. That's just a waste of energy. The real question is, why are U.S. citizens being forced to vote for two candidates they don't like, trust, respect or even want as a political leader? I think that is a very, very important question.

I agree, but it's the same question every 4 years.

That's why I advocate non-participation. Don't vote.

[Sueanne47]

This is exhausting! :faint: :argue:

Intuitive Fish, TargeT is nothing like Donald Trump!! he is standing up for himself because he is being provoked.. cant we just bury the hatchet? we need to be promoting love not hate...please have a heart :heart:

Donald Trump & Killary are crap anyway, they are not worth the trouble.

[Flash]

For God Sake Target, you can see very very very well that the degrees awaded to women are in fields where it does not pay and where there is no real powers : health care, mostly for nusrsing, education, mostly for teachers. Why? Not only beecause they chose it (doing a medecine degree is as difficult as a nursing degree, no more no less, so ask yourself why) Use your logic too and OBSERVE

As for Hillary, she is far from an example on how to be a powerful women while keeping one's women attributes, she is rather the perfect example of women who have to have men's biaises and men's behaviors in order to succeed.

And a video having for title pathetic feminist versus hysterical children: don't you see DON'T YOU SEE? comparing women to children, and worst, using the very habitual overused prejudice that whem women demand for their right or just the right to speak, they are deemed hysterical. You yourself are using this, don't you see??? Perpetrating the sexism..OBSERVE even YOURSELF!!

You know, when man demand something with strenght, their big male voice deepens as their pitch goes higher and it make much more low vibrating impact, heard from far away - everyone shuts up. When women do the exact same thing, their pitch goes higher too, like men, but having vocal cord that did not developed passed teenagerhood, their higher pitch is much more strident, like children. Therefore, they are almost always deemed hyterical and not listened to. That is why I do teach women in business meetings to project their voice forward while lowering their tone, like in theatre. To make their voice bigger, not higher pitch.

Can you believe, we have to teach this because the prejudices are extremely prevalent. When a woman demands, if she keeps a natural easy tone, she is not listened to, if she goes higher pitch like a man, she is hysterical, if she insists, she is just prior to her period, when she pitches low, she is like a man.... but more subject to be listened to.

You are really something Target, all around (another comment of yours was that leftist are more prone to violence lollllllllll.. I thought it was the far right that was prone to violence such as skin heads, nazis, etc, not leftists who are usually humanists, unless both extremes are prone to violence dont you think so?- you may have quite a lot of beliefs and filters near brainwashing - too many years on your job I bet - i would love to laugh with your wife about these beliefs of yours, we would have a ball).

[greybeard]

Flash vs TargeT
Whats with you guy's?
I respect both of you--can you not respect opposing points of views?
What is there to prove?
You both make valid points.

Oh well I suppose "Men are from Mars women are from Venus".

Ch

[Flash]

Flash vs TargeT
Whats with you guy's?
I respect both of you--can you not respect opposing points of views?
What is there to prove?
You both make valid points.

Oh well I suppose "Men are from Mars women are from Venus".

Ch

you got it, we speak a different language, feminine versus masculine, or life experience in on body type versus life experience in a different body type.

I admit I will never see life the way a man does - can i have the reciprocal acknowledgement and still be listened to??

[Sueanne47]

Different planets..

34367

;)

[greybeard]

Flash vs TargeT
Whats with you guy's?
I respect both of you--can you not respect opposing points of views?
What is there to prove?
You both make valid points.

Oh well I suppose "Men are from Mars women are from Venus".

Ch

you got it, we speak a different language, feminine versus masculine, or life experience in on body type versus life experience in a different body type.

I admit I will never see life the way a man does - can i have the reciprocal acknowledgement and still be listened to??

Oh yes Flash I admit I don't fully understand most women and very few fully understand me but then not all males get me either nor I them.
Thats the way it is but I listen to you and respect you and other females too.----you have a lot of experience and knowledge, same could be said of TargeT.
There is a lot of feminine in me and on the whole I am more comfortable with females

As for Donald Trump and Hillary --I would not vote for either----If enough people dont vote the next government cant claim they have the support of the people, who knows that might do some good
Ch

[TargeT]

TLDR; I'm not sexist ;)




For God Sake Target, you can see very very very well that the degrees awaded to women are in fields where it does not pay and where there is no real powers : health care, mostly for nusrsing, education, mostly for teachers. Why? Not only beecause they chose it (doing a medecine degree is as difficult as a nursing degree, no more no less, so ask yourself why) Use your logic too and OBSERVE

I see careers that are feminine, caring for people, teaching, nurturing. The medical industry workers are very highly paid & if you think a nurse has no power, you haven't been in hospitals very much.

My mom was a Nurse Practitioner for most of my life (OBGYN mostly) and then ran a lactation consultant business and moved on to pain management, I've grown up in the medical industry & do not see sexism present there.. I see the common pattern: it takes a certain type of person to be an MD, I couldn't do it; those hours are nuts & I don't care how much money you throw at me, I'm not living that way.

My mom had a masters degree but that was not what was required to be a Nurse Practitioner (a step below an MD) to become an MD you have to go through over twice as much schooling when compared to being an RN (registered Nurse) (http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/2011/08/29/should-you-go-to-medical-school-or-nursing-school), it's much harder and much longer, then you have your residency etc etc... it's a very very involved life style, in fact you will have no other life but the hospital for quite a while as a new doctor. Cutting social ties and working that hard is a very difficult choice to make (not to mention the aptitude for the schooling).

You are talking about career commitments that women, in general, do not make. So right there your "sexist" ideas fall apart pretty badly.



And a video having for title pathetic feminist versus hysterical children: don't you see DON'T YOU SEE? comparing women to children, and worst, using the very habitual overused prejudice that whem women demand for their right or just the right to speak, they are deemed hysterical. You yourself are using this, don't you see??? Perpetrating the sexism..OBSERVE even YOURSELF!!

I guess you completely missed the men in the video that were doing the same thing? it was comparing FEMINISTS to children.. can't you see how your prejudice is TOTALLY reaching every time to find the "sexism" you ignore facts just so you can find your "sexism".

It's just not there.


You know, when man demand something with strenght, their big male voice deepens as their pitch goes higher and it make much more low vibrating impact, heard from far away - everyone shuts up. When women do the exact same thing, their pitch goes higher too, like men, but having vocal cord that did not developed passed teenagerhood, their higher pitch is much more strident, like children. Therefore, they are almost always deemed hyterical and not listened to. That is why I do teach women in business meetings to project their voice forward while lowering their tone, like in theatre. To make their voice bigger, not higher pitch.

Yes, it's called speaking from your diaphragm, it's not easy for everyone; I was in theater in school & have EXCELLENT vocal projection & enunciation. I know exactly what they are talking about it and it is NOT sexist.. it's about being heard, not yelling; if I were to yell my voice would be considered annoying as well.

I'm not saying sexism doesn't exist, I'm saying your seeing it EVERYWHERE when it's not.

Your saying I'm doing it, when I'm not.


Can you believe, we have to teach this because the prejudices are extremely prevalent. When a woman demands, if she keeps a natural easy tone, she is not listened to, if she goes higher pitch like a man, she is hysterical, if she insists, she is just prior to her period, when she pitches low, she is like a man.... but more subject to be listened to.

well you can't pitch your voice higher and lower at the same time... but I think I understand what you are getting at, and I disagree with you.. I've certainly never thought a woman was hysterical when they raised their voice, I've been in the "corporate" environment for almost 20 years now, lots of meetings, lots of male and female presenters.. But the military does a pretty good job of teaching us to project our voices.


You are really something Target, all around (another comment of yours was that leftist are more prone to violence lollllllllll.. I thought it was the far right that was prone to violence such as skin heads, nazis, etc, not leftists who are usually humanists, unless both extremes are prone to violence dont you think so?- you may have quite a lot of beliefs and filters near brainwashing - too many years on your job I bet - i would love to laugh with your wife about these beliefs of yours, we would have a ball).

Well thank you flash, I'd like to think I'm something as well.

I completely agree that it makes NO SENSE, the left is the violent political extreme right now, and has been for over a decade. Since "right now" is really all that matters, that's what I'm talking about and illustrating.

Clearly you need a few examples, so....

Feminists violence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbBJLGnCSOc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUeWXfvXbbk

Not just in america:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PtMbLS2nsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9vKAvuxeHY

https://vimeo.com/55059001

It's ok in the media too, encouraged almost:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhAnONVNfrM

comprehensive leftist violence talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQtFXFP8lxI


Women are violent too, often against targets that willingly do not respond:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DPOJ3FEqNw

I could go on, I think we are talking about two very different things, I'm speaking about modern feminism... aka "3rd wave feminism" the stuff that exists right now & is so popular that its changing college curriculum, creating "safe spaces" and actively trying to remove rights from men and give extra rights to women.


Flash vs TargeT
Whats with you guy's?
I respect both of you--can you not respect opposing points of views?
What is there to prove?
You both make valid points.

Oh well I suppose "Men are from Mars women are from Venus".

Ch

I do respect her point of view, but am I being sexist?

she's called me sexist and racist several times, and not in an "in my opinion your sexist" way.

I will respond to attacks, verbal or otherwise.





Flash vs TargeT
Whats with you guy's?
I respect both of you--can you not respect opposing points of views?
What is there to prove?
You both make valid points.

Oh well I suppose "Men are from Mars women are from Venus".

Ch

you got it, we speak a different language, feminine versus masculine, or life experience in on body type versus life experience in a different body type.

I admit I will never see life the way a man does - can i have the reciprocal acknowledgement and still be listened to??

Why are you constantly setting your self up as a victim?

I'm listening to you call me sexist and responding, and in responding I'm trying to show how the environment has changed, how sexism and racism "ain't what they used to be".. the pendulum always swings in the opposite direction from where it was.

what you want me to do is listen to you call me sexist and agree with you, agree with the examples you show to try and prove I'm sexist?

I have not labeled you as anything, I'm not going to reciprocate that.


But uh.. on topic..

*adult language*
xTmI-P_cSbQ

[Intuitive Fish]

This is not an us vs. them or men vs women issue, as if the two groups are playing on an equal field. We live in a world of inequality, a world where certain groups are given inherent advantages, privileges and automatic respect at the expense of other groups. Those of you berating women and other oppressed groups for bringing awareness to the issue are only fueling the oppression. And silence is compliance.

For those of us who are involved, actively learning and yes, experts (!) on the issue of sexism can clearly see that TargeT's posts are dangerously racist and sexist. Not only that, his posts are emotionally and mentally exhausting (as opposed to inspiring), intending to wear his opponents down with gaslighting and egotistical "debates" which silences people and keeps genuine and worthwhile conversations from happening. I'd prefer not to converse with him at all, but I'm not sure why these unhealthy tactics, whether conscious or intentional or not, isn't clear to more people; and again, silence only allows it to continue. So, if we're any kind of a decent human being, we have to speak up.

[Intuitive Fish]

Getting somewhat back on topic, Donald's sexism is becoming more exposed by the day. The Washington Post exposed an audio leak of Donald catching him bragging about sexual assault:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

His "locker room" statements were so dehumanizing to women even members of his own party who also have histories of degrading and voting against women's rights are threatening to abandon him.

But here's the most disturbing factor of all. What he got caught saying on tape is nothing compared to the everyday words and actions not only of Trump but of the rape culture women are forced to live in. And it's considered completely normal, as in "men will be men!" (Ew.)

Trump defends himself by claiming what he said years ago is only a distraction to the important issues. But no, humans are the important issues.

Thankfully, Donald's sexism is an opportunity to put the conversation on the table. How about we start with this article here?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/08/many-men-talk-like-donald-trump-in-private-and-only-other-men-can-stop-them/?postshare=8851475981339124&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.f17b2b707786

From the article:


"The horrifying things Trump said in that video are comments I’ve heard from male friends of mine since I was a teenager. As a young boy, I witnessed older men appraise women’s bodies and heard them say what they would do sexually (for example, “Look at the ass on that one” and “I would bang her all night long”). Truth is, I have known Trumps most of my life."



In other news, the Fraternal Order of Police endorses Donald for presidency (and also endorsed Bill Clinton which is very telling, as far as sexual assault goes.)

The Fraternal Order of Police is just as "police state" as it sounds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/09/16/fraternal-order-of-police-union-endorses-trump/

From the article:


"The Fraternal Order of Police, which bills itself as the largest police union in the world, endorsed Donald J. Trump (R) for president Friday, saying that Trump 'understands and supports our priorities, and our members believe he will make America safe again.'”

What do these two stories have in common, you might ask? They have everything in common. The police state and white male domination are nearly one and the same.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Intuitive Fish, you lost any right to criticize others for sexism as soon as you started stereotyping and saying totally sexist things about men earlier in the thread. You are obviously very polarized when it comes to the issue of gender, so it's no wonder you focus so much on that rather than actual policy issues.



As for Donald Trump and Hillary --I would not vote for either----If enough people dont vote the next government cant claim they have the support of the people, who knows that might do some good
Ch

You keep telling yourself that, greybeard, but it's in vain. Our politicians have an enormous propaganda machine and a small voter turnout isn't going to hurt anyone's feelings in Washington. Hillary committed perjury in front of Congress just a few months ago and not even that seems to have phased anyone. By refusing to even show up to the polls all you're telling them is that you don't care what they do and the status quo is fine.

[TargeT]

the rape culture women are forced to live in

Wouldn't men be forced to live in it too?

Honestly, I hope your happy some day and see people for what they really are; you must live in a very angry paranoid world (judging by your statements).

I'll leave the rest, since I'm exhausting, but this is what, the 4th time I've asked you?


TargeT's posts are dangerously racist and sexist.

now I'm not only sexist and racist, but dangerously so; please show me the errors of my ways!

where am I being sexist and racist?

how many times are you going to call me that and not back it up?




The Fraternal Order of Police is just as "police state" as it sounds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ndorses-trump/

From the article:

"The Fraternal Order of Police, which bills itself as the largest police union in the world, endorsed Donald J. Trump (R) for president Friday, saying that Trump 'understands and supports our priorities, and our members believe he will make America safe again.'”


Ahh yes, the Fascist shows his colors again.. The police are very important to the fascist, it is how they enforce their Corporatocracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy).

[Flash]

Bsray, I understand I think where Chris/Greybreard is from: 40 years more than you of exposure to women being mistreated, comparatively to their counterparts in the male societies. Of course, 40 years ago, it was much more appearant. but the younger generations have no idea how far back we started from. This is for sexism against males..... which I do not think at all that Greybeard has lollllllllll

Second, as for the American election, Greybeard must be like me and many many others woldwide, but outside the USA. It is sooooo discouraging to see what is going on with Americans from outside (we also have a bit more access to real news, you are greatly greatly controlled media wise). This is really not pretty all around and quite despairing, since USA has a worldwide impact on what happens to the planet, and we are truly sorry for this. From a potential light to the world 2 centuries ago, you slowly became an election circus, with candidate who should not even be presidents of companies, forget presidents of countries, who are thiefs, drug lords, casino lords, living through stealing the population in accordance with high levels bankers, name it.

Not much better in other countries, but.. they do not have the weight America has, for the moment (China is coming to that same level, more than Russia in my views).





Intuitive Fish, you lost any right to criticize others for sexism as soon as you started stereotyping and saying totally sexist things about men earlier in the thread. You are obviously very polarized when it comes to the issue of gender, so it's no wonder you focus so much on that rather than actual policy issues.



As for Donald Trump and Hillary --I would not vote for either----If enough people dont vote the next government cant claim they have the support of the people, who knows that might do some good
Ch

You keep telling yourself that, greybeard, but it's in vain. Our politicians have an enormous propaganda machine and a small voter turnout isn't going to hurt anyone's feelings in Washington. Hillary committed perjury in front of Congress just a few months ago and not even that seems to have phased anyone. By refusing to even show up to the polls all you're telling them is that you don't care what they do and the status quo is fine.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Bsray, I understand I think where Chris/Greybreard is from: 40 years more than you of exposure to women being mistreated, comparatively to their counterparts in the male societies. Of course, 40 years ago, it was much more appearant. but the younger generations have no idea how far back we started from. This is for sexism against males..... which I do not think at all that Greybeard has lollllllllll

I experience my own generation, which is much larger at this point than your generation or greybeard's generation. When you say men are this or that, there are more people in my generation, that I know, than there are who are still thinking this is the 1970s or whatever the decade may be. That's just how demographics have shifted today.

Not only is the millennial demographic the largest voting bloc today, but we are not all board room executives either. So I don't appreciate being lumped into that category, or even the insinuation that the worst of the male sex represents all of us. We know that the scum rises to the top. Stereotypes are what sexism trades in.

[Flash]

This millenials being the largest group right now is true for USA, Turkey, most third world countries, but definitely false for Canada, Australia, and all of Europe. The largest group there is still babyboomers, second are the millenials, and third are the X generation.

So that thinking does not apply to the whole planet, not even to the whole developed world.

Chris and i are from Scotland and Canada, not from USA.

I find the younger generation, namely millenials and Z, much less sexist, less educated in terms of knowing history or basic math, but much more informed of social stuff. However, women have gotten more equal in everything related to work and sex, to their detriment at times (in my view). Sex has gotten more mechanistic for both genders, porno is giving the sexual teachings, heart is often not there (only physical needs such as f ck friends), etc. As for work, women work as much as men outside, but yet, raising children often falls more on their shoulders and separation from dads often makes single moms have much more difficult time, having to work and raise children (all those I say are statiscally proven, but I do no have time right now to research them just to post here).

So the pros; more equality
The cons: not a better society



Bsray, I understand I think where Chris/Greybreard is from: 40 years more than you of exposure to women being mistreated, comparatively to their counterparts in the male societies. Of course, 40 years ago, it was much more appearant. but the younger generations have no idea how far back we started from. This is for sexism against males..... which I do not think at all that Greybeard has lollllllllll

I experience my own generation, which is much larger at this point than your generation or greybeard's generation. When you say men are this or that, there are more people in my generation, that I know, than there are who are still thinking this is the 1970s or whatever the decade may be. That's just how demographics have shifted today.

Not only is the millennial demographic the largest voting bloc today, but we are not all board room executives either. So I don't appreciate being lumped into that category, or even the insinuation that the worst of the male sex represents all of us. We know that the scum rises to the top. Stereotypes are what sexism trades in.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

So that thinking does not apply to the whole planet, not even to the whole developed world.

I'm sure that's true but this thread is about Trump and the US elections. We basically have a choice between two candidates who both have done things which are regrettable to say the least, but Bill Clinton has numerous people accusing him of abuse and even rape and Hillary only defended Bill and attacked his accusers. Paula Jones was awarded $850,000 in court and Clinton's license to practice law was revoked. He was disbarred.

I think, like Trump was talking about at the debate tonight, we need to look more closely at what Bill Clinton's accusers are saying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvoRcPXURwg

Actions speak louder than words.

[onawah]

I haven't been reading this thread, but I've come to the conclusion that what we are seeing with this election is the old Reptilian trick, where they present us with two options to give us the illusion that one is a better choice, but that there are no other possible options.
Then when we choose one of the options, which is generally considered "the lesser of two evils", they can say that we chose it by our own free will, which in their eyes, lets them off the karmic hook.
It's just a shell game.
There is something under the third shell that by sleight of hand they are trying to hide from us.
We can refuse both candidates by insisting that HRC be indicted for her crimes, and that they allow Sanders to run instead (since the DNC committed fraud-- there was a fraudulent counting of the votes, as usual, I believe), and also because they broke their own rules by conspiring against Sanders in favor of HRC.
Or we can write his name in on the ballots, or vote for Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate.
All the arguments about that just lead back to the same shell game.
But we have a third choice.
Electing either HRC or Trump is nothing but a choice between the Devil and the deep blue sea.
And the fact that they know this, and planned it that way, and are laughing up their sleeves is why they are able to continue so shamelessly with this charade.
It is very hard for normal people to grasp the fact that the planet is being ruled by psychopaths and sociopaths, but if they don't wake up soon, there will be Hell to pay.

[TargeT]

I haven't been reading this thread, but I've come to the conclusion that what we are seeing with this election is the old Reptilian trick, where they present us with two options to give us the illusion that one is a better choice, but that there are no other possible options.

I think the trick is, Given two options that are both in "general knowledge" terrible, but in further research (which limits the audience extremely) varying levels of "terrible" (One MUCH worse than the other, but both bad enough to keep it decisive, too keep the populous divided).


It's just a shell game.
I agree, but I think it's simpler than you think... I think all hopes are pinned on Hillary.


It is very hard for normal people to grasp the fact that the planet is being ruled by psychopaths and sociopaths, but if they don't wake up soon, there will be Hell to pay.

I agree, but I think it's mostly through "willing contract". "the masses" willingly choose to not research, they willingly choose to be distracted.

I know many of these "masses" I to which I refer. I deem them unhealthily apathetic and wasteful of the talents they were given, its sad to see a wasted mind; I find it difficult to not be frustrated with them; especially as an individual working in a highly technical field (something you would assume takes more cognitive prowess).

[Intuitive Fish]

TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

And you're not being attacked, TargeT. You're being called out (which Flash did beautifully and you ignored her post) for attacking an entire gender and defending a presidential candidate who routinely does the same. You're not even being called out because you self-identify as a male. As Flash also wisely explained, plenty of women are sexist against non-males because we've been socialized to look down on and even hate our own gender. Conversely, there are plenty of men who aren't sexist, because they've done the inner work to deprogram from that program.

It might appear as though feminists are creating a division but in actuality, they're calling out the unjust gender division that has existed for thousands of years and still exists, generally speaking. You can't play the victim when you institutionally possess more privileges than people who are oppressed. This is why cishet males don't and can't experience sexism. If you don't experience sexism, how in the world are you such an expert on it? Oh yeah, that's right, patriarchy.

Are there less women scientists because women don't want to be scientists? Or because that field is competitively dominated by men while women are discouraged from those occupational fields from the moment they're born as well as encouraged to go into more "nurturing" and serving (and less paid and less threatening because they don't involve public leadership) occupations such as elementary school educators, nurses and housewives as well as objectifying careers such as modeling and sex work? (Whoa! That was a long sentence but hopefully you catch what I'm saying.)

****

The Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus book seems to destroy far more relationships than it helps. Sure, there might be anatomical and hormonal differences between people, but that's about as far as it goes. That traditional gender binary only propagates damaging stereotypes primarily intended to allow one group of people to rule over and own another group as property (affectionately known as the church and state-controlled marriage institution.) Thankfully, transfolks and others are dismantling those arbitrary, controlling and humanly degrading sex stereotypes.

*****

I agree with onawah. Well said! We absolutely do not have to vote, support or play into the "better than/lesser than" uniparty. There are plenty of other choices, and a growing number of people who are choosing them.

[A Voice from the Mountains]

TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

Painting all men as egotistical pigs isn't calling out anything. It's just stereotyping and sexism.

[TargeT]

TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

And you're not being attacked, TargeT. You're being called out (which Flash did beautifully and you ignored her post) for attacking an entire gender

I would love it if you would join Myself and Flash on a skype conversation tomorrow at 3pm EST.

Please message flash or myself so we can toss the text and get a bit more natural communication method going :)

[onawah]

Having read a bit more of this thread now, I think it's interesting what this astrologer predicted for the week upcoming here:
http://angstoic.com/2016/10/week-ahead-october-9-15/
Which I've copied here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91348-AngStoic-astrology-prediction-for-the-next-3-months-and-next-10-years&p=1104880&viewfull=1#post1104880

[Intuitive Fish]

TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

Painting all men as egotistical pigs isn't calling out anything. It's just stereotyping and sexism.

It's really funny when people think that calling out sexism is an attack on all men, and that equality = oppression.

[Intuitive Fish]

TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

And you're not being attacked, TargeT. You're being called out (which Flash did beautifully and you ignored her post) for attacking an entire gender

I would love it if you would join Myself and Flash on a skype conversation tomorrow at 3pm EST.

Please message flash or myself so we can toss the text and get a bit more natural communication method going :)

Thank you for the invite, TargeT. But I personally do not feel that you're open to women's viewpoints on women's issues... which is fine. But for me, it's just not a conversation worth having at this point. Peace out, bro.

[Yetti]

SORRY SAM, TE RESPONDO UN POCO TARDE , PERO SEGURO. VIVO EN PITTSBORO NC. Conozco Curacao, estuve alli durante 8 dias mientras llevaba un velero a mexico, en Dominguito dentro de la bahia de Spanish waters, amazing place !

[A Voice from the Mountains]

TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

Painting all men as egotistical pigs isn't calling out anything. It's just stereotyping and sexism.

It's really funny when people think that calling out sexism is an attack on all men, and that equality = oppression.

This is your post that I was referring to:


The reason why men interrupting women is sexist/misogynist is because of the great phenomena called "mansplaining" which is not fun when you're on the other side of that equation. It assumes the man is the expert, the woman is subordinate and it turns what could be a worthwhile discussion into some kind of a fierce competition. Not to mention it perpetuates institutionalized male domination, as if men are on some insecure power trip.

Men interrupt men and women interrupt women all the time when arguing. I have never heard anyone make an accusation that interruption in either of these cases is sexist, because it would make no sense. You are the first and only person I have ever heard in my life say that a man interrupting a woman is sexist by default and then trying to actually give logical reasons to justify that. It is every bit as absurd as saying that men interrupting men is sexist. I get the idea that equality for you means privileges and protections, and in practice what it becomes is sexism against men, just like what you see in what I quoted above.

[Flash]

BsBray, please go back to school to be able to read statistics (that I know you can but just do not do) and go in boardrooms, where decisions on your future are taken. It would give you exposure of how it truly is. Average boardrooms: 10 business men, 1 woman, she is the VP RH, the men have the postitions with power such as money handling, operations, etc.

This is an average, there is always exceptions to it, mostly in governments, not in private industries and when there is exceptions, it is not where important life changing or ecnonomic/social changing decisions are taken.

I will be gross, because I do not like her, but Clinton is the typical woman in a boardroom with only men around.

How come you do not see the obvious all around you.

And then you tell us that accusations that interruption is sexist because it does not make sense! Really?

Not only are women not in boardrooms (and if they are they have to behave like a man, as Clinton does), which is the best way to shut them off (black neither by the way), but once in, being often the only one with 10 men, she mathematically has 10 times the potential to be interrupted.

And let me tell you, it is more than that, she is not listened, not much more than as if she was having an hijab in a Muslim world, where she would not be acknowledge as even existing in that boardroom.

I am not going to research any stat for your pleasure, do it yourself. I find it ludicrous to argue on those when my experience and research confirm what I am telling all around.

And... I live in one of the most open society for women in the world. Just imagine what is elsewhere.

Until you went in those places, or truthfully observe without your MALE FILTERS WANNABE PINK, be humble, look and take for granted just for a while what an experience woman is telling you. LISTEN FOR ONCE.

OK just one keystroke

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/15-of-the-most-powerful-boardrooms-on-earth/84526634/

Opec boardroom - where are the women

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/366483/84526636.jpg

In Norway, getting women into the boardroom by law - despite being 80% of the workforce, they were only 7% in boardrooms. From 7% it went to 25% within 10 years, still a far cry to the true representation of women in the workforce.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/world/europe/28iht-quota.html?_r=0

HOSTIE DE TABARNAK, is that clear enough?

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/10/29/1446111358167/fb7af3b7-6c2e-4b97-bef9-64464af68aea-620x357.png?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&

Wage disparities between sexes in England in 2013, which tells the true story on real power

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/03/10/31CDC00D00000578-3474465-While_the_number_of_female_high_earners_has_remained_roughly_the-m-14_1457000115112.jpg

STOP TELLING ME/US that WOMEN HAVE THE SAME VOICE AS MEN IN THIS SOCIETY - YES I AM SCREAMING BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE TO, AND EVEN THEN THEY ARE NOT HEARD - THOUSANDS OF STATS, GENERATIONS OF EXPERIENCE, AND WE ARE STILL NOT HEARD BY WANNABE PINK MEN AND PATRIARCHAL OTHERS

NO WOMEN ARE NOT TREATED EQUAL IN THIS PATRIARCAL SOCIETY - the situation here, is typical of what is happening in society by the way - keep repeating that discrimination does not exist, from male voices, and it will miraculously disappear.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND TAKE OFF YOUR FILTERS





TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

Painting all men as egotistical pigs isn't calling out anything. It's just stereotyping and sexism.

It's really funny when people think that calling out sexism is an attack on all men, and that equality = oppression.

This is your post that I was referring to:


The reason why men interrupting women is sexist/misogynist is because of the great phenomena called "mansplaining" which is not fun when you're on the other side of that equation. It assumes the man is the expert, the woman is subordinate and it turns what could be a worthwhile discussion into some kind of a fierce competition. Not to mention it perpetuates institutionalized male domination, as if men are on some insecure power trip.

Men interrupt men and women interrupt women all the time when arguing. I have never heard anyone make an accusation that interruption in either of these cases is sexist, because it would make no sense. You are the first and only person I have ever heard in my life say that a man interrupting a woman is sexist by default and then trying to actually give logical reasons to justify that. It is every bit as absurd as saying that men interrupting men is sexist. I get the idea that equality for you means privileges and protections, and in practice what it becomes is sexism against men, just like what you see in what I quoted above.

[Flash]

I had a conversation with Target yesterday on our behaviors, whys and how, and we agreed to disagree on some aspects. However, his position is to make sure arguments are struck so that everyone can go further, at the risk of pushing bits too much at times, mine is that we always to consider the whole of the planet when discussing.

As for his behavior while talking on skype, I must say that he does pause and listen to a different point of view, i saw it getting in. Which is more than most can do in this society. A bright guy with a definite background that has put some filters on him, but which could be made flexible.

I also listen to his, on some aspect, he is right to push further so that the difficult to discuss gets a voice.

It would have been fun to have you around.




TargeT and bsbray, calling out sexism isn't sexist. Sexism is what is being called out.

And you're not being attacked, TargeT. You're being called out (which Flash did beautifully and you ignored her post) for attacking an entire gender

I would love it if you would join Myself and Flash on a skype conversation tomorrow at 3pm EST.

Please message flash or myself so we can toss the text and get a bit more natural communication method going :)

Thank you for the invite, TargeT. But I personally do not feel that you're open to women's viewpoints on women's issues... which is fine. But for me, it's just not a conversation worth having at this point. Peace out, bro.

[Baby Steps]

Debate is a verbal exchange

cut and thrust

interruptions, rudeness, trickery, intelligence, good briefing, preparation, role play , psi ops. These are all used, in the struggle to win. If one uses to much nastiness, that one loses credibility.

None of the techniques, tricks, abilities deployed above have any connection with the genital structures between the legs. I do not know what their importance or relevance is to a political debate.( unless the subject is relating to gender or sexual abuse etc)

I do not know why they keep popping up , really....

[Flash]

They keep popping up because they keep existing duh.....

sex biases, from women as well as from men, are very important in a political debate - Trump was not attractive to the women electorate and had to change that, they are 50% of the vote. At least, one woman vote has the same chance to be stolen from rigged election as one man's vote. lolllllllllllll


Debate is a verbal exchange

cut and thrust

interruptions, rudeness, trickery, intelligence, good briefing, preparation, role play , psi ops. These are all used, in the struggle to win. If one uses to much nastiness, that one loses credibility.

None of the techniques, tricks, abilities deployed above have any connection with the genital structures between the legs. I do not know what their importance or relevance is to a political debate.( unless the subject is relating to gender or sexual abuse etc)

I do not know why they keep popping up , really....

[Baby Steps]

They keep popping up because they keep existing duh.....

sex biases, from women as well as from men, are very important in a political debate - Trump was not attractive to the women electorate and had to change that, they are 50% of the vote. At least, one woman vote has the same chance to be stolen from rigged election as one man's vote. lolllllllllllll


Debate is a verbal exchange

cut and thrust

interruptions, rudeness, trickery, intelligence, good briefing, preparation, role play , psi ops. These are all used, in the struggle to win. If one uses to much nastiness, that one loses credibility.

None of the techniques, tricks, abilities deployed above have any connection with the genital structures between the legs. I do not know what their importance or relevance is to a political debate.( unless the subject is relating to gender or sexual abuse etc)

I do not know why they keep popping up , really....

I wish dearly that he wasn't the sexist narcissist that he is.

[Sueanne47]

wow.. what Trump just said : the Clintons are Criminals:

mxjLuvR0338

[Sueanne47]

DNC organised the Trump groping plot :

dVPFhEyk1XM

[TargeT]

Not sure how to take this..

Well yes, I am sure. I don't believe russia had anything to do with the hacks & if they claim they did we'd better see some evidence, I mean it's pretty damn hard to prove it wasn't some talented individual with a disclosure mindset and it was a "state actor" (government paid hacking team etc..).

And quite frankly, I don't trust the "US intelligence" agencies at all... how many major events have they openly admitted failing at? (9/11, Benghazi, Boston bombing etc etc etc)




Donald Trump stuns experts by refusing to accept intelligence on Russia
US officials claim Moscow stole files from Democratic National Committee computers to influence the presidential election
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/10/16/09/donald-trump.jpg
A former senior US national security official has said Donald Trump’s refusal to accept information from intelligence professionals about Russia “defies logic”.

US intelligence agencies claim Russia stole files from Democratic National Committee (DNC) computers in an attempt to influence the presidential election.

Mr Trump received a classified briefing on the subject, where he was told intelligence officials were “confident” Moscow was responsible for the hack – something he has seemingly ignored.
During the first presidential debate, Mr Trump asked if Russia was involved in the attack and in the second debate he questioned if there had been a hacking.

“I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC,” he said in the first debate.

“I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay?”

John MacLaughlin, the former acting CIA director, said Mr Trump was using the information for his own benefit.

“[Trump] is playing politics. He’s trying to diminish the impression people have that [a Russian hack of the DNC] somehow helps his cause,” Mr MacLaughlin said, according to Chicago Tribune.

General Michael Hayden, the former director of the CIA and the National Security Agency, claimed Mr Trump was ignoring the advice he was being given.

“It defies logic… He seems to ignore their advice. Why would you assume this would change when he is in office?” Mr Hayden said.

Mr Trump has previously taken favourable positions towards Russia, defending President Vladimir Putin’s human rights record and criticising NATO.
Senior Democrats have not responded well to Mr Trump’s comments and have called on the FBI to investigate the Republican nominee’s ties with the Russian government.

“For months, we have been asking the FBI to examine links between the Trump campaign and illegal Russian efforts to affect our election,” read a joint statement from representatives Elijah Cummings, John Conyers, Elliot Engel and Bennie Thompson, NBC News reported.

“In light of this new evidence – and these exceptional circumstances – we call on the FBI to fully investigate and explain to the American people what steps it is taking to disrupt this ongoing criminal activity.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-russia-intelligence-officials-democratic-national-committee-us-presidential-election-a7363901.html


So are we trying to psyche our selves up into another cold war?

Russia bad, US good?