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Agape

3rd August 2016, 22:57

Deprogramming ideas ...

Of the inner Self , the Atma that is also the Paramatma, the Vedas state :

''Tadha jati tad nejati

tad dure tad advantike

tad antarasya sarvasya

tadu sarvasyasya bahyataha ''

..is that what is moving all the time ( the eternal motion ) and that what never moves ( the ultimate stillness )

that is far ( further than the farthest ) and near ( closer than the nearest )

one that rests inside of all living beings

is the one who surrounds them all ''

All arguments and mind control programs start with what your mother, father , caretakers , teachers and friends thought ..

it's their mind , not yours

be it a bee or a hive

they tell you what they think you think of yourself , of them and the universe

it's not your Mind

I'm not thinking anything , when approaching the world ... free of concept , like newborn child watching the skies early dawning ,
what is the day going to bring us .. we do not know .

There's life out here and there ..

Who am i . If you know who you are and abide in your mind you know who everyone else is too . There's a game being played , many games on the surface ,
like your tv series ..

archetypal stories and life breaking paradigms.

They want to break you then fine , break it all to powder .. and reconstitute yourself on another whole new level of reality or remain contained in your primordial self ..

since no matter what you do and how much you do

and no matter who thinks what and what they think that you think that they think that you think, about you ..

you can't change who you are

since deep inside

there's a Being of infinite Goodness

as even the oldest of Bon scriptures say ..

''Before anything was , I were

and i was One without the Other

duality I did not preach

they call me Kuntu Zangpo

the Pure Grounds

and essence of every sacred vow

I'm the Source

and there's no other Source

from deep within

there's no within and without

that's how I abide

in Mind of Oneness and oneness of action

one without the other

spontaneous flow of existence''

I'm not person and I'm not impersonal

I'm both and neither

and negation of the two

and yet ..

behind the vast canopy of skies

dances a divinity clad in Blue :sun:

Whoever understands meaning of those verses correctly he/she does not need to read the rest of the Book .
Because understanding even a portion of the Book correctly equals the understanding of the Book.

''The ET was left speechless ...''

:star:

Michelle Marie

3rd August 2016, 23:38

Awesome Truth! You're a matrix buster.

FREEDOM reigns with this understanding.

Love, love, love this! :heart:
Michelle Marie

ulli

4th August 2016, 12:36

Nothing to add. Truth like this needs no debating.
:bump:

Agape

4th August 2016, 12:52

Please add ..your own deprogramming ideas ... nonetheless

o3nmqbLQYQ8

Thank you :star:

ulli

4th August 2016, 13:16

Different cultures run different programs, as do different religions and even families.
So my deprogramming maybe the oppposite of what others need.

Here goes

Give myself permission to be lazy.
Give myself permission to fail.
Give myself permission to be lucky.

(To be clear...on some occasions only. Not advocating zero activiy. )

Still have not got very far, after trying for several decades.
German programs run deep.

greybeard

4th August 2016, 13:28

Brilliant Eva
The mind cant get it but you can still know that you are it---that which is beyond definition.

Love Chris

Foxie Loxie

4th August 2016, 16:34

Seeing through the old paradigms & starting a journey of re-education works for me! Knowing that I can just BE & not have to fit into anyone else's idea of what is "normal"! :happy dog:

onawah

4th August 2016, 19:27

This was interesting from Jon Rappaport today:

When consciousness wakes up

By Jon Rappopport

These are notes I made after finishing my collection, Exit From The Matrix, which contains over 50 specific imagination exercises and techniques, all aimed at empowering the individual:

"The individual may be focused on his own life and future, or he may be hoping to affect the course of life in a larger sphere; but whichever is the case, he needs to envision the future with the wide-ranging stimulus of his own imagination; otherwise his consciousness will keep operating within familiar and tight limits; it will keep 'repeating itself,' and energy will drain away."

"Consciousness isn't a field that remains the same. It isn't a finished product. It moves dynamically, and it invents what wasn't there before."

Consciousness can go through the motions, like a sleepwalker, or it can seek out new directions. When it pursues this latter course, it creates experience that would never otherwise exist."

"Desire is always looking for a North Star, and it finds it in imagination. Imagination fleshes out what fulfilled desire would be like, look like, feel like. Consciousness pours itself into imagination and says, 'Let's go.'"

"The world is sitting in the middle of each person's consciousness like a clue, a hint, an example of what can be created."

"As a metaphor, consciousness could be thought of as the raw material of awakened imagination. It is the fuel for the engine of the creative impulse."

"Status quo is the myth that says individual consciousness has a particular configuration. Consciousness is action waiting to happen, when you're talking about the life and future of an individual. As soon as he begins to invent his future, consciousness stops waiting. It becomes arrows of perception and excitement aimed in the direction the individual is heading. It's the great yes that outdistances any possible collection of no's."

"Consciousness is inherently poetic. It seeks new rhythms and flows and shapes and sounds and images that will add up to...what? That is for the individual to decide. But eventually he will discover that this poem of his own future has no end. There is no final sum or final stopping point. The process is endless. Endless is the ultimate 'rock' on which he can stand: the future he is inventing keeps going and expanding without limit."

Agape

4th August 2016, 20:57

Agape

6th August 2016, 12:54

ulli

6th August 2016, 13:07

Still have not got very far, after trying for several decades.
German programs run deep.

Found something special , unconventional, Ode to Joy sung in Leipzig main train station hall ..

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Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum.
Deine Zauber binden wieder
Was der Mode Schwert geteilt
Bettler werden Fuerstenbrueder
Wo dein sanfter Fluegel weilt ..

Joy, beautiful spark of Gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter, fire-imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
Thy magic powers re-unite
What custom's sword has divided
Beggars become Princes' brothers
Where thy gentle wing abides...

Full lyrics :Schiller's 'Ode to Joy'
in its original, 1785 version (http://www.raptusassociation.org/ode1785.html)

The subnote says .. ''we are also human beings . we have all the right to BE, to BE FREE, THINK FREE, CRY and LAUGH ''

It's very powerful .

:heart:

I left Germany at age 18, finding the British music scene more authentic.
The Ode to Joy was one of my earliest programmings.
Mother had been a choir leader in the Hitler Youth movement.
At age 8 I had already memorized all the lyrics, and was in the school choir singing in Gothic cathedrals. To be honest, I resented that forced stuff about joy, Joy, JOY!!
So I became more of a cynic in my rebelliousness.

Joy needs to spring from within to be experienced in a true way.
By the way, your post was most appropriate. Thank you for digging this up.

ulli

6th August 2016, 13:39

El condor pasa

M_gSydN_BYM

It takes time for the eagle to fly over .. That's how we say, we saw his trail on the sky. If everything was meant to take only a moment ..

There would be nothing to call a time, a day .

Information arrives bits by bits . Enlightenment happens step by step . It's a process rather than a state .

It's an evolving stream of consciousness

It remembers of itself , bits and pieces of memories ..

Abiding in Oneness

:angel:

Always wondering whether Art Garfunkel and Paul Simon were the real composers, I searched for the history of this tune,
and I found this paragraph on Wikipedia:

El Cóndor Pasa (pronounced: [el ˈkondoɾ ˈpasa], Spanish for "The Condor passes") is an orchestral musical piece from the zarzuela El Cóndor Pasa by the Peruvian composer Daniel Alomía Robles, written in 1913 and based on traditional Andean folk tunes. Since then, it has been estimated that around the world, more than 4000 versions of the melody have been produced, along with 300 sets of lyrics. In 2004, Peru declared this song as part of the national cultural heritage. This song is now considered the second national anthem of Peru.

It is the best-known Peruvian song to anglo-centric radio play due to a 1970 cover by Simon & Garfunkel on their Bridge over Troubled Water album. Their version is called "El Condor Pasa (If I Could)".

Agape

7th August 2016, 13:41

I left Germany at age 18, finding the British music scene more authentic.
The Ode to Joy was one of my earliest programmings.
Mother had been a choir leader in the Hitler Youth movement.
At age 8 I had already memorized all the lyrics, and was in the school choir singing in Gothic cathedrals. To be honest, I resented that forced stuff about joy, Joy, JOY!!
So I became more of a cynic in my rebelliousness.

Joy needs to spring from within to be experienced in a true way.
By the way, your post was most appropriate. Thank you for digging this up.

Hello Ulli , I suspected that .. I have a talent for hitting the 'right spots' even intuitively but it actually seldom works well unless we're also good friends .

What you describe though is rather very familiar .. they simply use ( and misuse ) children everywhere to propagate their 'adult stuff' .

I love classical music ( and Beethoven especially ) but one has to 'grow up' to be able to appreciate the Spirit and the meaning of that kind of Music, I believe .

They could not program me here really , though they apparently tried hard and all they could .

Having sensitive ears .. and true music is what our souls produce in quiet moments .

My mum described her childhood piano lessons as 'torturous' so never signed me to those and guess I missed something .

I also loved poetry as a kid and for that virtue alone they occasionally forced me to attend some recitation event or competition , and I really - hated the stress .

There are aspects of human life that took me almost 30 years or so to be able to appreciate at all , matters like 'fashion', movies, modern music or humour of human relationships.
One of my friends tried to compared my personality to that of Benjamin Button
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Curious_Case_of_Benjamin_Button_(film), not seen it yet ) and growing backwards in time .

When I was kid and after certain age 5/6 , I was deadly serious . I had adults poking to me all the time and some of the less gifted ones getting annoyed , periodically , including family members , and vice versa .
The older I am I figured out I'm able to enjoy life better ..

I left here too when I was 19 and I fear I'd have died otherwise . There was nothing about the culture /society that made life sense to me ,
I saw it all .. from many corners .

I still don't understand how can people live their lives like some of them do but I believe it may have something to do with 'families' and soul-mates .
If you have the right person with you even hell is survivable , if not .. even a heaven can be lonely place .

I am me , will always be me and hate pretences . But unlike my childhood self .. I learned to laugh them out when I see them, right away . Or cry , alternatively .

Love to you :angel:

Agape

7th August 2016, 20:49

Nepali song : Resham Phiriri

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It's at least ...1500 years old ...the last time I've heard it , obviously ... :bigsmile:

Resham firiri, resham firiri
Udeyara jounkee dandaa ma bhanjyang
Resham firiri
• Like a silk ribbon/scarf flying freely in air, I wish to fly over the hills.
Ek nale banduk, dui nale banduk, mirga lai take ko
Mirga lai mailey take ko hoeina maya lai daukey ko
• One barrelled gun, two barrelled gun, targeted at a deer. It`s
not the deer that I`m aiming at, but calling my love."
Resham firiri, resham firiri
Udeyara jounkee dandaa ma bhanjyang
Resham firiri
• Like a silk ribbon/scarf flying freely in air, I wish to fly over the hills.
KukuroLai Kuti Kuti Biralolai Suri
• here this line is only to make rhyme with the second line that is actually add meaning to the lyric the words Kuti is used to call dogs and suri for cats
Timro Ra Hamro Mayapirti Dobatoma Kuri
• You and I fell in love just by waiting at crossroads
Resham firiri, resham firiri
Udeyara jounkee dandaa ma bhanjyang
Resham firiri
• Like a silk ribbon/scarf flying freely in air, I wish to fly over the hills.
Aakash ma Jahaz, sadak ma motor na bhaye gada cha
Yo mana jasto tiyo mana bhaye tagati gada cha
• I can’t go in the sky, if not possible with car I have bull cart,
If you heart/wish is like mine those things are not hard,
Resham firiri, resham firiri
Udeyara jounkee dandaa ma bhanjyang
Resham firiri
• Like a silk ribbon/scarf flying freely in air, I wish to fly over the hills.
Saano ma sano gaiko bachho bhirai ma, Ram, Ram
• This line is also for make rhyme with following line, this line means a small calf on a cliff just we can pray for god....it is a kind of Nepali proverb,
Chodreh jauna sakena mailey, baru maya songhai jaum
• I could not go leaving you alone so my love let's go together.....
Resham firiri, resham firiri
Udeyara jounkee dandaa ma bhanjyang
Resham firiri
• Like a silk ribbon/scarf flying freely in air, I wish to fly over the hills.
Kodo charyo, makai charyo, dhan chareko chaina
Pachi, pachina nau kanchi manpareko chaina.
• I plant millet, I plant corn but paddy is not planted
Hey girl don’t come behind me because I don’t like you.
Resham firiri, resham firiri
Udeyara jounkee dandaa ma bhanjyang
Resham firiri
• Like a silk ribbon/scarf flying freely in air, I wish to fly over the hills.

araucaria

10th August 2016, 06:46

The content of the OP is self-evidently correct, which is not to say it goes without saying. But the real issue of course is that this is not what we do most of the time. It is all very well in theory, so why don’t we practise it more? Actually, the very notion of theory vs practice is a flawed one, masking a third term. Theory is practice. The theory is what you do in a practice situation; the problem is when you come to the real-life situation, and start doing something completely different to what you know you should be doing. When this happens, you may see as negative criticism what is actually positive encouragement, a form of coaching. Your coach will not tell you you are no good, he will tell you you are not following your game plan, and try to get you back on track.

The meme that the Earth is some kind of spiritual training ground for practising theory for some other experience, in my opinion, is all wrong. If you want a military metaphor, we are not learning the ropes back home firing blanks, we are away on the battlefield using real live ammunition (which is why people are getting hurt). I personally prefer a sporting metaphor: we are not practising among friends in a relaxed situation where confidence is high and everything becomes easy; we are playing a competitive match, where you count the score and the score counts, and confidence drains away. This is altogether ‘a different ball game’, and the only way to learn to cope is to face this situation repeatedly, i.e. gain ‘match practice’. (Granted, this actually means multiple turns of the same spiral, since experience gained has its downside: the loss of freshness and spontaneity. Battle-hardened troops are not necessarily the most effective since they tend to tire of war.)

Here is a concrete example from my here and now. Yesterday I watched a young friend play a tennis match. He lost a close-fought game against on paper a better player. So why was he disappointed? Because, as often happens, he played the opposite of his A game. The A game means confidently attacking the ball: you accelerate it with topspin by hitting it low down and lifting the racket over the top. When you lose confidence, you play defensively by doing the exact opposite, by chopping down and slicing the ball, which slows it down. Defensive play is rarely enough because while it will get you out of a corner, it will place you in another one, and normally speaking you will eventually buckle under the pressure, unless you can do it with enough confidence to keep going. At some stage you will need to attack; if you can’t do it with confidence, that means taking a risk. My friend was disappointed not because he lost, or because the other guy got lucky (victimhood), but because he didn’t take that risk. Or to put it another way, he didn’t even come close to doing the things he does with ease in practice. And nor did the other guy. They played an interesting tactical game, but only rarely the spectacular stuff they were both capable of producing had they only been able to release the hand brake.

Confidence is just one of many names for that elusive ingredient we are all looking for in every walk of life; or rather it is what we are learning to look for while we work on technical issues and character issues... and telling each other we are no good. Ultimately technique and character are not the issue: we are good enough in terms of skill and quality; we just need to remind ourselves of that fact. Confidence or the lack thereof is nothing personal: it is the medium in which we all bathe; it comes in waves that we try to ride. The paradox is of course that we should need to work so hard at... effortlessness (wu wei (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei)).

Agape

10th August 2016, 11:37

Wu Wei always goes with me
But it indeed does not require much practice

Theory and practice , aren't they like this ..
The collection of herbs and spices and all possible combinations of them exist in theory

Practice is about choosing the right ingredients for your soup

If you put all the theory into the soup it will be dense . Too much , too much :bigsmile:

Laughing a lot too can be like adding a salt .. it tastes good

And turns awful at the end .

Is there anything such as 'serious soup' though ? A 'genuine soup' maybe ?

Hardly, it does exist on products labels but not in reality and not to the hungry ,

A soup is a soup and whatever you have to put in to fit your taste.

Offering thanks and short prayer before meal is good

But criticising for long hours what all is missing in that soup

Means that the soup will turn cold . Will be more awful and you end up, more hungry .

Theory and practice are like the outwards and inwards motion . If you want nothing but expand , be seen , have some general fun .. engage in theory .

Practice is like carefully guarded secret and talking to best friend .

That's how any message becomes meaningful.

Who indeed ever learns about practice from street posters .

Theory and practice , aren't they like the prose and the poetry .

Because theory can be read from information bits but poetry can only be read from hearts .

Discard the couching and practice lands effortlessly on you .. after you learn to serve your own needs , make your tea and iron your own shirts and never think otherwise ,
You're a man .

:tea:

araucaria

12th August 2016, 09:45

You're a man .
Ah yes, I am a man, how silly of me to forget. May as well just crawl away right now – except that you are a woman reminding me. Here’s me thinking we were eternal beings having a human experience. This is exactly what I mean by underperforming through lack of confidence. We are playing so badly that we’d rather be anywhere else doing something else altogether. That can be arranged of course, but what would be the point if we take along the same attitude that is spoiling things here? Why put me in a box that you find too small for yourself? To belittle others is to belittle oneself. What it means to be a man or a woman is so much more than you ascribe to those categories of beings; so maybe I shall just stand my ground after all.

In my direct human experience, men are not overly abusive, women are not overly abused or weak, and there is plenty of room to help each other improve our interaction without conflict. When a spiritual discussion begins to sound like a domestic argument, someone is underperforming, not following their (possibly over-ambitious) game plan. The female weakness card is inappropriate and ineffectual defensive play; it is inappropriate coming from one who likes to claim she is so much more than a weak human; it is ineffectual when aimed at someone aware of the bigger picture. There should be no such antagonism involved in playing a game; it is in everyone’s interest for maximum enjoyment that everyone performs well. Trouble is, anything resembling coaching is shot out of the water, either as a backhanded compliment or forehanded criticism, when it is merely friendly encouragement.

Of course you don’t have to listen; no matter, someone else will. But neither do I have to carry on taking your cold, over-salted soup. As it happens, I can make a delicious piping-hot soup of my own in twenty minutes. The secret ingredient is simplicity. I tell my best friend she must go nowhere near the salt, fetch the cream instead, and I empty the dustbin some other time. I look after my best friend, and she looks after me; that is what works for us, and what I am seeking to share on this forum, and why I am doing so. Don’t bring your problems, bring your solutions.

From my standpoint at least, your comment about doing the ironing is so out of touch it made me laugh. I have a friend who does all the ironing in his household, while watching the football on TV (who said men can’t multitask? :)). I have done it often enough myself, but generally my wife prefers to do it in exchange for other chores than she cannot do, including, but not limited to: mixing and laying concrete, laying floors, building walls and fences, planting/pruning/cutting down trees, hedges and bushes, digging the garden, harvesting potatoes, changing wheels and light bulbs, mending electricity/plumbing, clearing blocked drains/gutters, installing new kitchens/washbasins/furniture, painting ceilings, shifting heavy objects, disposing of dead mice/birds/cats and live spiders, sorting out computer glitches... You get my drift: I am just an ordinary guy pulling my weight in the real world, as most ordinary guys do without ever setting foot in a Buddhist monastery: chop wood, carry water. Oh yes, I am a man! Is this pre- or post-enlightenment behaviour? Since there is no way of telling, enlightenment being a process, it would be impertinent to ask, and foolishly judgemental to claim to have an answer. You just do it, or maybe you don’t.

Agape

14th August 2016, 19:15

Lost in translation , I suggest ?

You see , I spent life on thinking through it and working through it as much as possible , for this very human world we are part of is precious to me , quite like my own .

See I have to remind myself every so often to treat this human body/mind with respect and grace , give it some food if the bugger has to be fed at all and do all the chores I can't care about less , after all , after all
But who wants to live in the earthly dust .

Being a man was really metaphorical expression of mine , not a reference to your gender.

It simply said each of us have to learn to be responsible for our own fate before we can make the right choice and also , so we're able to make it.

It does not discriminate males or females . It describe someone of knowledge and wisdom who are not a trouble to themselves anymore and have space and love and reason to help others .

A man = pure human spirit is a Universal Spirit too ..

Sometimes, taking step back to a place/time before your argument arose and ran over the edge of your mind , prompting an action you yourself aren't able to define well, philosophically or otherwise helps .. to face your own paradigms , your own way because we all are potentially capable of being the founders of our own complicated religious and cosmological systems that only reflect our current capability of reflection and its evolutionary limits and no one in the history will ever understand the way you saw it or I saw it and yet there're millions of people out there , fighting that their views are seen ,
We evolve in organic manner .. notice that .. not as some technocrats hope for .. as machines, computer systems and AI.

And that's the mystery of Life and the mystery of Man.

For me, in this nanosecond of time I'm not gaining or losing

YA77E5n_ue4

:Music: