Mind*@*@ & The Flyer Mind

[Reaver]

The term "Flyer Mind" was used by Don Juan Matus, the Yaqui shaman who taught or tried to teach shamanism to Carlos Castaneda and it is the term I prefer to use to describe an universal phenomenon along with the term: "their mind" since that's a remark by Don Juan: "They gave us Their Mind"

These parasitical entities have been observed through the ages and given different names: Flyers, Their Mind, Archons, Demons, Angels, Shadows, Predator, The Devil.

This is not the same as the Ego, in fact I'd say this is one step beyond the Ego.

Inevitably the contemplation of the Flyer Mind also leads to explore how so called reality can be bended.

The following is a recompilation of my writings on the subject, so at times it may seem incoherent. This is a topic which is inter-related to virtually everything in life, so you will also see that I touch on other subjects.

Word of warning: This is subject which triggers a lot of people, so at times I won't even reply to avoid this thread from becoming a mess. The ideas of reality control have nothing to do with new age teachings and very little to do with what most so called teachers promote in the alternative scene. There are fine lines between make believe and practical application. I'd recommend to get acquainted with Vernon Howard's work to have a solid foundation of "reality hack" and not just make believe to justify a mental stupor. Oh and any personal anecdote of mine will just be used as a point of reference to shed light on the subject, nothing more I'm not looking for virtual hugs nor I desire anybody's "love & light". Feedback will suffice.

So here it is, to begin a piece which tries to simplify the matter to have a decent foundation to build on:

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You can't explain the psyche with materialistic science. That's impossible since science is concerned with the study of the material world, while psychology in concerned with the study of the mental. I know that for a mind which is heavily rational (and I don't mean it in a bad kind of way) it is almost a heresy to claim that something intangible exists for real, it must be always backed up by science as we know it today.

The concept of "their mind" as Don Juan puts it is not some made up fantasy which denies everything that science has contributed to human progress nor is about turning a blind eye to things like some banking empire nor is it denying the existence of psychopaths looking to practice sadism with the rest of the world. It merely tries to illustrate how most, if not all, the messed up things in this world are the symptoms of a psychological disease.

Let's kill the wording "their mind" because it simply gets in the way for most people trying to figure out what the hell some people are talking about. I can understand why such words cause an immediate shut down, after all it almost sounds as if "their mind" was some kind of ghosts busters myth.

Let's think in more familiar terms. If I were to say that X person is possessed by "their mind" then some people would think I was somehow bringing back some paranoia of the middle ages and I may as well call it a satanic possession, but such conclusion couldn't be further from the truth.

This person who is "possessed" by this mind virus is someone who has gone through a heavy social conditioning over the years to the extent that this person feels very identified with their programming. In their perception; these mental constructs (which someone else build for them) are what give meaning to their life.

If you try to make this person see the truth behind it, then most likely you'll get a hostile reaction varying in degree. Some may call you crazy, some may even go as far as killing people who oppose these mental programs. But are they the ones in control? are they actually reacting from a place of authenticity? is it their own rage?

How could it be their own reaction when we have concluded that they are the receivers of a pathological social conditioning? Thus the talk about "their mind". It is the mental programming doing the reaction masquerading as the real person. I understand this can sound paradoxical as hell because the claim is: That person is going bonkers, we can observe it in his/her reactions, but at the same time it is not really him/her.

But then again we've seen what happens when a person starts to recognize these programs and proceeds to remove them and manage to handle the ensuing inner conflict. They start to get better to a degree and even their personal life seems to improve somewhat or at least their psychological life does.

By approaching things from another angle, you could say that the ills of the world are the result of serious psychological trauma. That is not to say that there aren't bankers looking to enrich themselves and the expense of others, that doesn't mean there aren't people out there messing things up, that doesn't mean every single adversity in life the common person finds if of their own doing.

All that is being said is that all those predicaments can be traced back to an origin point which is that of a traumatized psyche which in turn creates an environment suitable for sadism and masochism. These conditions then create mental programs which over time can prey on a vulnerable psyche and in turn infect them with either form of pathology. Still sound too hocus pocus? See it from this perspective:

You have a baby who is a blank slate which facilitates the influence of external forces. Most likely the first external influence the baby will come in contact with are his/her parents. Over time the child will absorb any set of values and beliefs that the parents practice and in turn will emulate these values and the health of his/her psyche will be largely determined by these values or parental conditioning.

Let's say the child has to grow up in a seriously dysfunctional home. The child will be exposed to pathological mental programs that will impact his psyche in different ways. Over time the child may emulate those programs and become a messed up adult, perhaps he'll be sadistic or maybe he'll be so broken that he'll bend over to anyone who displays enough force. Isn't his condition the result of social conditioning? can we really says that's an authentic person? or is it a seriously traumatized psyche doing whatever it takes to survive?

In this example the child has become "possessed" by the pathological mind of his parents. Of course this is just a figure of speech, if you take it that literally then you have some serious rethinking to do. In psychological terms the child has been exposed to a pathological social conditioning for so long that he feels extremely indented with it and acts accordingly.

The child can be guided through a healing process, but only HE can overcome it, there is room only for one. Now the fact than only he can put himself out of such a mess does not equal a negation of the impact that his parents had on him nor their responsibility, nor does it deny his current condition. Yet we can observe that how this person acted out during his/her life was a symptom of these mental programs running in his psyche.

When we try to break this programming don't we see similar reactions in people who've become heavily invested in their conditioning? they deny their pathology, they will fight tooth and nail to preserve the programming alive because they feel naked without it. In other words they are trying to preserve the mind of their programmers alive because it is what gives meaning to their life, by holding into these programs they also guarantee acceptance amongst those suffering from the same pathology so that they don't become outsiders.

Think about christian programming. Aren't there mechanisms in place to make the person feel guilty and scared of questioning his values? let alone leave them behind. To use a metaphor: When "their" mind is threatened it will try to preserve itself.

Had the child been out of the influence of his parents social programs then he'd never have to live with a traumatized psyche. Of course this was a simplified example for practical purposes.

We can project this dynamic on the grand scale where there are more factors at play that just parents. Yes a person is under the influence of pathological programs and there are people who propagate them and in who in all like-hood messed up a person in a direct or indirect way, but at the end of the day, it is up to this person to rise, no one else can do it for him, at most guidance and help can be offered.

Don't TPTB try to shape the world according to their image? to their mental schemas? aren't they infecting the world with "their mind"? their pathological mind is what paves the way for wars, famines, ponzi schemes and all that, symptoms of their mind. You may be able to mitigate those symptoms, to patch things up for a few decades, but if the root is not dealt with, then those symptoms will resurface sooner or later... maybe they'll just manifest in different ways.

So again "their mind" is about identifying the psychological roots of this world's ills. The psyche is the code while the events out there are the output, by studying both you will see a picture of the whole.

It's a hard pill to swallow, I know. I've been there and still find myself there sometimes. It's tough to cope with because one day you realize that yes TPTB and everything related to it are harming the world and people suffer, but even then, the real solution lies in each individual taking responsibility which consists in pulling themselves out of the mess they find themselves in even if someone else put them there.

[Reaver]

It also has to be acknowledged that "their mind" can be very clever. So clever that it even uses "good" to camouflage itself. Good deeds, pure thoughts, good people, etc.

You can see it happenning in big pictures. Take the example of parents who actually believe that sending their children to school is actually beneficial for their children and if that wasn't enought they also believe it makes them excellent parents. When you apply the skill of observation you can see that it may feel good, that people may believe it's beneficial, but actually it is highly toxic.

In this example the cons outweight the pros. Yes, kids may learn to read, write and apply basic arithmetic, but along the way they exchange their potential for the "virtue" of absolute obedience. Of course their mind will seduce people and make them believe it is all for their own good.

There are numerous examples which illustrate how "their mind" uses the concept of good and good feelings to destroy people's psyche. You can see it on the Alternative Circus too with all the spells the celebreties cast on the faithful ones. It sounds good, it feels good so it must be good and so people consume these products and ideas coming out from "their mind". You could say people fertilize their psyche and the psyches of their off-spring so that "their mind" can reproduce and thrive.

Now this is not to say that something like altruism is an entirely evil concept nor completely useless, but we have to examine if people are applying this idea for the right reasons. Does it feel good? probably. Should we feel good about helping out other people? I don't see why not... but answering these kind of questions don't reveal that much so we have to take a deeper look.

Why do people feel good about it?, What factors influence them?, Who is providing the definition of altruism?, are these good intentions really beneficial? Are they fixing things on the short term? what about the long term?.

Sometimes I've found that I did "good deeds" because it was a mechanism to cope with my own anxiety, but "their mind" is clever so I was telling myself cute stories to avoid facing the underlying reasons for my "good deeds". They had nothing to do with a response, but they had everything to do with a reaction to try to patch a psychological crack and thus their mind kept getting bigger and stronger.

"their mind" really hates exposure and so it uses all sort of tactics to avoid being discovered and if it is discovered then the toxic mind will use a different set of tactics, this time to convince the host that it is in their best interests to keep "their mind" alive and well.

Their mind couldn't care less about morality, that's just a concept which serves more as a distraction than anything else. Their mind will use ideas of good and bad alike to infiltrate people's psyche and so you can see a lot of permutations of their mind: Some people become extremely sadistic, some others go on to live the life of saints and help everyone who looks like are in dire need and so they feed co-dependent relationships. "Their Mind" is flexible and makes use of a big scale of greys so you will see different degrees of toxicity.

One of the main aims of "their mind" is make their programs "normal" and "familiar" so that the hosts don't question them at all because they are supposed to be a natural component of humanity.

[Reaver]

It also has to be understood that the exploration of the artificial mind is NOT about suppressing/killing emotions, in fact doing so only feeds it, rather it is about keeping one's emotions in check. You accomplish it by putting your own emotions under the lens of your mind to gain a deeper understanding of the human psyche (well that's one of the methods anyway).

As it has been stated: "Their mind" takes over a person's psyche and implants a behavioural simulacra. Based on my own experience with it, I'd say this psychological virus makes use of very subtle mechanisms to take over. The damage done to the person varies in degree.

The most disturbing aspect of it is the fact that the artificial psyche goes on self-replicating without much opposition. It is normal, familiar and in its insanity it provides people with a lot of emotional security. A toxic emotional security that is. Some people can become extremely anxious in social situations, other people become anxious by being alone. Some people can become extremely sadistic, some become masochistic. The permutations and degrees of severity of this phenomenon are too many to list.

Again, in no way is this "philosophy" telling people to become emotionless droids. Rather it is telling people to watch out for this virus so that it can be sterilized and the Authentic Psyche can unfold.

Oh and the interactions with "their mind" are far from being pretty.

[Eram]

Hi reaver,

Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?

To me it seems that at least much of this condition is born out of lack of understanding of reality and how to behave in it without friction. So if anything is to blame for it, it would be our own immaturity and not so much archons, wetiko and what else there might be out there to get us.

It's not to say that they are not doing everything they can to increase this lack of understanding, but to say that they forced it upon us and humans are innocent victims would be an assumption that does not match my observations.

[Reaver]

Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?
What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.

Technically it is alien regardless of its point of origin.


To me it seems that at least much of this condition is born out of lack of understanding of reality and how to behave in it without friction. So if anything is to blame for it, it would be our own immaturity and not so much archons, wetiko and what else there might be out there to get us.
Not really, as I said (and many others way before my time) it is a parasite. If you look at biological parasites you'll see that there's really not a forced relationship, it is s symbiotic one, sometimes the symptoms are obvious and sometimes they are so subtle it is hard to notice.

What does happen though is the lack of understanding of reality which is a symptom of the Flyer Mind. It makes us become obsessed with its description of reality which then we make out own, all of this unconsciously of course, but with a real impact on our personal mental space as well as the world out there. Sure anyone trying to limit the Flyer Mind needs to snap out of any victim-hood feelings... it is such a clever process where even if one realizes there is something inside of us then the Parasite can use that truth against its subject to deviate attention from it which ultimately results in states of powerlessness for the infected.

See this is where people can start to get triggered, but it has to be said for the sake of context and clarity: That statement of yours if the Flyer trying to hide itself behind a truth by focusing you whole attention on what it is a symptom caused by it. Are you wrong in your assessment? not really, but it is incomplete and so the Flyer steps outside of your awareness. Nothing personal, just a mere observation, but as I said this is a subject which triggers a lot of people so I have to throw disclaimers around.


It's not to say that they are not doing everything they can to increase this lack of understanding, but to say that they forced it upon us and humans are innocent victims would be an assumption that does not match my observations.
In a sense we start out as victims since the Flyer latches since the moment of birth, reinforced by our most immediate members of society: families who feed us their description of reality to reinforce the Flyer. But to say we start out as victims should only be regarded as a point of reference, a mere acknowledgement of the situation.Dwelling on this fact is what creates all sorts of victim-hood complexes and renders people utterly powerless in turn nourishing the Parasite... even though the Flyer will also use simulacrums of feeling powerful (new age teachings as an example) to nourish itself. As I said, even truth can be used to keep us in a stupor.

[Reaver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYyCHGWJq4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc


Imagine you are in the room, with one wooden chair at the middle. You are looking at it and by all definitions it is one helluva average chair. So far so good. You leave the room and close the door.

Is the chair where it was, looking exactly as it did moments before, without anybody looking? Or is it potential to be interpreted as same chair when you or somebody else enters the room? Is it solid or wave like?
It's quite the mind*@*@, this inevitably leads me to ask: how the hell can I guarantee that everything which apparently is not me (people, stuff, animals, minerals and all that) is not just some kind of intense dream state? You know like when you go to sleep and you would swear the damn thing felt so real despite some things being off, like when you dream about places and people you've been to and met before and some details are different than so called reality... why on earth does it feel so real?

If every event around me depends on me observing them in order to collapse and form reality then why does my mind interpret them as being partially or totally outside my control and ultimately outside of what/who I consider to be me? If everything is indeed a kind of hyper realistic simulation then how do I become fully conscious of it to the point I can direct the narrative or the story/simulation? Here's another mind****:

Ever had those episodes in your life when it feels like events fall into place in the way you want them to? sometimes it takes a series of events, sometimes a single one does the trick. A very simple example if time itself, when I was living in London and started doing mind experiments I toyed with the idea of time, I had to be at a specific time at the platform to catch the train and be able to arrive to my class on time so I decided to approach it with two different mindsets (one each time) and note the results.

The idea was to leave the house before the train arrived, but I couldn't leave too early otherwise the experiment would be useless since my mind was already aware that leaving at least 20 minutes before (even by walking slowly) absolutely guaranteed me catching the train, so I had to reduce the time intervals to 15, 10 and 5 minutes; intervals which made my mind doubtful about my ability to be on time.

The first approach was about making my mind anxious, checking the time very often, so what happened with this mindset was that I failed catch the train; the 15 minute interval was perhaps in a 50-50 or 40-60 ratio, I suspect this was because despite my time anxiety I still knew it was just 5 minutes less than 20 and still had a chance.

The 10 minute interval was comprised mostly of failed attempts, if I was to be too optimistic about it I'd say I had an 80% rate of failure. As you can imagine, the 5 minute interval always ended in utter failure to catch the train.

The second mindset was about entering a confident and relaxed state, knowing that time is relative, to have something to back up my mental conclusion I reflected back on the occasions when time quickly passed by or when it went by slowly depending on what suited my mood the most. 15 minute intervals always guaranteed success, 10 minute intervals resulted in success most of the time with very few exceptions and the 5 minute interval must've been around the 85% success rate.

So if time and events can be "manipulated" like this then what other things could be controlled? why is it that I can't? or is it actually me being so unconscious of the process behind it that I have made an unconscious agreement where I deem myself incapable? If so then how do I change it? how do I become aware of it when I seem to have no frame of reference for its existence?

Ever heard of the clinical term "depersonalization"? That's when you feel like nothing is real, it feels like you are in a movie or a dream. The medicine priesthood says it is a disorder, but I suspect is far from being a disorder, in fact they have to tell you it is a mental disorder because it threatens the flyer mind and because it challenges your sense of identity and perhaps one could find something about reality one is supposed not to. I'm curious as to how a shaman would describe this so called "depersonalization".

Ever felt like you jumped in time (forwards or backwards), but you can't quite recall it? like when you see something in the corner of your eye, but you can't pin point what the hell it was. Other times it feels like you jumped into an alternate time line. So why and how is it that we get inserted back into what we consider to be reality and the real timeline? is it our unconsciousness? it is a parasite?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJiJZiOaJFQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_ySllDOyjE

Their mind, the flyer mind, wetiko, the archons... are we pretentious about it? we like to see it as a foreign installation, an artificial program running in the back of our heads, a parasite; mental or cosmic... something outside of ourselves, that is scary enough... but remember Plato and Hegel, the Discourses and the Dialectic, children of Hermeticism... opposing polarities of the same whole. A sane mind and "their mind", could it be they are two sides of the same coin? if so then how do we reinterpret reality?

What is the purpose of being here (whatever the hell here means)? We also like to pretend we know, when in fact we don't and that threats our sense of identity.

[Sunny-side-up]

Hmm! some synchronicity:
Been having stronger feelings of being followed recently or of someone/thing around!
Just last night while walking the dog I glanced a guy turn the corner of the road to my left.
I didn't pay much attention, then just 3-5 seconds later I looked to make sure where he was and he wasn't? he had vanished?
I remember thinking afterwards that he was bald and didn't have much detail Hmm!

[peggy englebrake]

I found the books of Don Miguel Ruiz helpful on identifying our mental intruders and practical ways to take control of our own thoughts and programming. A Toltec approach to awareness.
You are correct. Each of us must take this first step ourselves.

[TEOTWAIKI]

Would it be possible to summarize what Don Miguel Ruiz has suggested as practical ways to take control of our own thoughts?

In my opinion, this topic is paramount to the survival of the human race and deserves our highest attention.

Until we as humans can take back control of our minds from the predators, we are at risk of self-annihilation.

Many posters on this and other forums have discussed the parasitic infection of our minds but there has been a dearth of information on methods of combating the parasites.

[Reaver]

Would it be possible to summarize what Don Miguel Ruiz has suggested as practical ways to take control of our own thoughts?

In my opinion, this topic is paramount to the survival of the human race and deserves our highest attention.

Until we as humans can take back control of our minds from the predators, we are at risk of self-annihilation.

Many posters on this and other forums have discussed the parasitic infection of our minds but there has been a dearth of information on methods of combating the parasites.
Hardly surprising, as I stated, is is a topic which triggers way too many people and even among those who pay attention for a while, find a way to avoid seeing it, not many actually admit the flyer acts in themselves because their intelligence, their sense of so called spiritual progress and their sense of identity is put into question.Usually these threads start to degenerate into all kinds of emotional babble or unrelated BS which only provides evidence for its existence and influence.

This is not the typical alien stuff where there are overlords outside of ourselves dictating our life and we can shift all the blame unto them, this is something which is inside of us and alien at the same time, which ultimately requires us to look at ourselves.

[Reaver]

Mind****: Is the dream world actually separate from so called reality? There was a website (ceased to exist) which claimed dreams where a program for "gods in training". In those lucid dreams you can create thing out of thin air, those guys claimed it was possible to draw those elements from dream states into what we commonly perceive as reality. Their claims had nothing to do with new age make believe where getting high on pretty e-motions could pull it off. Again, there are thin lines between make believe and practical application.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7RWq2bOMI


La shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine”
“Nothing is true, everything is permitted”
“ليس هناك ما هو صحيح ، كل شيء مسموح به

Ah I loved the first, second a third games in the series, thanks from reminding me of it and it actually is a synchronicity (even though I don't like to use the word that much), particularly the bit where Machiavelli says: "Where other men blindly follow the truth", I think that is one of the most important things for humans in general to re-evaluate, even more so in the so called alternative media. This is what I wrote yesterday somewhere else:

"Truth" is nothing more than a mere idea which has become nothing more than trivia. This is also the case at large for the alternative media, the moment you project a moral quality unto the concept you end up with all sorts of self-righteous BS and alternative entertainment . In fact the word "truth" simply means to bring that which is hidden to light, nothing more."

Yet people through the ages have swallowed the ridiculous notion of "The Truth Will Set You Free", which is nothing more that a spell and ironically one of the greatest lies ever told. Every other notion of truth -beyond revealing that which is hidden- is pure moralistic projection, a tremendous pretension. Blindly follow that which is now revealed and be ready to get kicked in the face.


I read somewhere where it was stated that when the American Revolution started, its leaders only aimed to reach a low percentage of people in order to win. When they swayed 3 (or 3.5?) percent of the population to actively participate on their side (mostly carrying guns) they knew they would win. So consensus forming reality again.

I read that claim too, yes when you get to the essence of this dynamic it kinda makes sense, although the essence of the principle has to be applied and fine tuned according to the environment. Had Britain had a tight control on its domestic affairs, had France and Spain kept out of the revolutionary war... question begs, how much should that 3.5% had had to be increased? This helps illustrate my claim of there being fine lines between practical application and make believe.

The essence I'm talking about:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWj7oWlVtag

Mind****: Have you noticed how the media (in all its branches) is releasing more and more content which deals with the topics we talk about? They cover different layers, but it is there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNfzbPAD8FE

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zSWdZVtXT7E

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jROLrhQkK78

Now the immediate reaction in the alternative media would be something along the lines: gate-keeping, they have to do it because people would ask too many questions otherwise; but since we have asked question along the line of quantum entanglement then it'd be only logical to ask:

How can we be so sure that's actually the case? that is the media producing this kind of movies and tv shows which seem to be increasing in their quantity and quality. What if -at the core of it all- that's just reality collapsing trying to tell us something? is it actually a fabrication of "out there"? or is it nothing more that our unconsciousness unfolding itself and reflecting back on us through media (medium)? how then do we wake up from our own unconscious dream masquerading as reality? or is it about realizing how we can direct the story of the dream? ultimately having control over the waves of consciousness?

[peggy englebrake]

Not really. Before you can take action, you must be exposed to some ideas/concepts. Otherwise it's like trying to fly a plane before you understand gravity. Ruiz has seven inexpensive paperback books in print that are easy to read. You can get them on Amazon. The first book is "The Four Agreements", but my favorite and the one I happened to read first was "The Voice of Knowledge". I have another reference besides Ruiz on this topic, but I will have to look up the web address, if you are interested.

[Violet3]

". I have another reference besides Ruiz on this topic, but I will have to look up the web address, if you are interested.

Hi Peggy, I would be interested in your other reference if you can find it. Violet3

[Eram]

Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?
What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.



I'm not asking for hard scientific evidence, but with a claim like this, a parasitical mind virus, I am just curious to know what is out there that gives it credit.
Especially since much if not all of the symptoms can also fit into the model (http://www.ericsteinhart.com/progress/HEGEL/HEGEL1.HTM) that Plato, Hegel and many other (as you rightfully mentioned) laid out.


There's a lot out there that points in such a direction. Thousands collected cases of reincarnation memories (http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm) that matched up with the facts, all life that seems to aim for evolution and more.

So my problem with the idea of a flyer mind (for the moment) is that it seems at odds with the theory of reincarnation in function of a growing soul (consciousness evolution).
I have to admit that I haven't spent much time into the flyer mind theory, but some common sense observations to give it credit would certainly help. ;)
For now, I can't think of any...

[Wind]

You say it's not the same thing as ego, but I think it's interesting what Tolle says.

Personally I do believe that we are also influenced by the lower astral too.

hbj4nLOPN8o

[TEOTWAIKI]

Not really. Before you can take action, you must be exposed to some ideas/concepts. Otherwise it's like trying to fly a plane before you understand gravity. Ruiz has seven inexpensive paperback books in print that are easy to read. You can get them on Amazon. The first book is "The Four Agreements", but my favorite and the one I happened to read first was "The Voice of Knowledge". I have another reference besides Ruiz on this topic, but I will have to look up the web address, if you are interested.

Peggy,

I wasn't being lazy or a cheapskate, it's just that Amazon doesn't ship to the country I'm working in right now :)

Otherwise I would immediately order and read the Ruiz books.

I would like the other reference as well if you have time to look it up...

[Reaver]

Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?
What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.



I'm not asking for hard scientific evidence, but with a claim like this, a parasitical mind virus, I am just curious to know what is out there that gives it credit.
Especially since much if not all of the symptoms can also fit into the model (http://www.ericsteinhart.com/progress/HEGEL/HEGEL1.HTM) that Plato, Hegel and many other (as you rightfully mentioned) laid out.


There's a lot out there that points in such a direction. Thousands collected cases of reincarnation memories (http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm) that matched up with the facts, all life that seems to aim for evolution and more.

So my problem with the idea of a flyer mind (for the moment) is that it seems at odds with the theory of reincarnation in function of a growing soul (consciousness evolution).
I have to admit that I haven't spent much time into the flyer mind theory, but some common sense observations to give it credit would certainly help. ;)
For now, I can't think of any...
I'll make a quick reply while I put some thoughts in order with more substance. I'll use myself as an example, seems easier to expand on it that way:

There have been situations where certain emotions start to strengthen themselves, it could be any, but to make it easier to see let's say they are emotions like fear, anxiety, anger, melancholy. Indeed the ego is always involved in this e-motions, but behind it:

When In certain situations where actions or words caused me to become angry, at times there was a sort of space being created, in which I could tell there were two different "I"s occupying the same space. One of those "I"s was the one who experienced anger boiling up and at the same time felt like a forced reaction an act, trying to convince myself that such anger was indeed mine. The other "I" seem to be rather indifferent to the situation, calm and collected and it seemed this "I" was actually the one belonging to me.

So looking back at those situations, "Angry I" was the flyer trying to impose itself. Notice that whenever one feels a strong emotion (could be any, but again let's focus on the ones I listed) such as anger, one is forced to become more aware of what goes on in the body. Anxiety and Fear have similar effects, these e-motions require us to enter into states of "Alert" which by their very nature require us to become more aware or conscious of our surroundings and our bodies. The Flyer feeds on the resulting awareness of these states of Alert, one has to be convinced those initial feelings are actually ours so that our bodies produce the necessary bio-chemical reactions to enter in such state.

[Reaver]

You say it's not the same thing as ego, but I think it's interesting what Tolle says.

Personally I do believe that we are also influenced by the lower astral too.

hbj4nLOPN8o

I think Tolle is just a new age marketing guru, sure some truth in his talks, but ultimately he ends up pandering to the victim-hood complex of their audience so they can justify their broken state. One can never trascended nor bypass the ego, only become aware of it and integrate it to make it function within proper boundaries. That's all I'm going to write on the matter to avoid deviating from the topic at hand, but at least now you know why I won't comment further on it nor post anything related to Tolle.

[Reaver]

The main problem I had (and still have) is the lack of direction and motivation when the thoughts stop. I'd say the voice instead of the thoughts but that may sound wrong and sidetrack what I am trying to say. When you listen to 'your' inner voice to find out what to do your whole life, when that voice goes away there is thoughtless desert left. At first.

I just had an epiphany re-reading your posts and paying closer attention to the film Revolver, it shows how bloody clever the flyer mind is:

"Thoughtless desert' Indeed, we've been always thinking with Their Mind, we've never had the chance to use our own mind, we've been using the mind of the parasite since the very beginning.

Notice that at the end of the film there are different people basically talking about the ego, notice what mystics and esoteric teachers say: empty your mind so that you can start perceiving the world as it really is.

It just dawned on me that such statement is true... and a massive lie at the same time, this truth can in fact lead you into another flyer mind defence mechanism.

These people do indeed describe what happens when the ego is out of control and how it masks itself, but many of them fail to detect What sends the ego into a trauma state in the first place. By realizing our ego is out of control and in control of our lives, the flyer mind hides behind this fact since all our attention then focuses on our ego and its mechanisms, effectively diverting our full attention into a truth. "Where other men blindly follow the truth".

"Where is the best place where an enemy can hide"? "In the very last place you would ever look". Even if you look at the ego and realize its existence and influence, no one ever looks at what hides behind the ego. "No one sees Gold, but Gold sees everything"

When people cause trauma on others what hides behind all the psychological stuff we know about those behaviours? It seems to me, behind all those truths, something even more disturbing hides itself: A person exercising sadism on others unnecessarily is actually an individual flyer mind nourishing another member of its society. It's a loop.

I caution to leave morality aside because if we are to project morality on top of this observation then we risk falling into another trap, the flyer mind would hide behind this truth and have us believe violence itself is unnatural in order to deviate our attention from itself (their mind).

It's quite creepy to realize all my life I've pretty much been interacting with other parasites and not real humans, just something pretending to be human.
I swear as I'm writing this my breathing rate increased, feel anxious as well. Feels like I don't even want to admit it to myself, asking myself if this is just some paranoia, apophenia.

I have to ask once you get through reading this post and doing some thinking: Did you find yourself feeling something similar?

[sparrow7]

There is a whole archonic order, with ranks.

The smallest archons are the parasitical larva they put on you, the larva transmit signals within your body, these parassites have the role to trick you into thinking it's your own thoughts.

The next one is the Wasp archon, that can control you directly with energy waves from outside your self if you are opened to her, she does this to insert the above, her larva children inside of you.

Next there are the god archons, the judges that judge you, these are basicly the top of the pyramid, the cap stone archons.

Next there are the master archons that don't do anything really but observe how things and the system is working overall, all the others work for them.

So it is a pyramidal structure with the eye of god that represents the judge archons and above that hidden the masters of deception.

Among them there are also humans, Luciferians, the ones who made deals with the wasp mothers, they can learn how they can become a harlot wasp in time, and can use the grid line to manipulate others, these are the occult folks, sophia people gnostic jesuits. The whole Gnostic movement is archonic.

Really when you say flyers the best thing that comes to mind is the Yellow WASP archon.

[peggy englebrake]

Teotwaiki That's interesting. I had just checked this sight to look at replies and as I was looking at Violet3's reply it occurred to me that some of you (duh, sorry) were not in USA or Europe and might not have access to Amazon. Then I scrolled down and found your reply. Looking for reference.

[peggy englebrake]

Teotwaika and Violet3 www.bibliotecapleyades.net (web site for The Nag Hammed Library) Once on the website search for "The Archons - Los Arcontes)" or "Alien Influences on Humanity"
They also have a list of Utube videos on this site about archons. Not easy reading, but fascinating.
Also Teotwaiki, I don't know if this helps but you can access all the Ruiz books on Amazon with Kindle (I never read Ebooks but it says you get a free app for the Kindle if you order an Ebook ($7).
You might want to check out the website "The Event is coming soon". These people are fighting archons, so to speak.
Let me know if you make any great discoveries.

[TEOTWAIKI]

Teotwaika and Violet3 www.bibliotecapleyades.net (web site for The Nag Hammed Library) Once on the website search for "The Archons - Los Arcontes)" or "Alien Influences on Humanity"
They also have a list of Utube videos on this site about archons. Not easy reading, but fascinating.
Also Teotwaiki, I don't know if this helps but you can access all the Ruiz books on Amazon with Kindle (I never read Ebooks but it says you get a free app for the Kindle if you order an Ebook ($7).
You might want to check out the website "The Event is coming soon". These people are fighting archons, so to speak.
Let me know if you make any great discoveries.

Peggy,

Thanks for the link. I've read quite a bit on bibliotecapleyades.com, usually following google links and found a lot of good info there.

I haven't really launched into the The Nag Hammadi Library yet but I did meet a professor in Vilcabamba that was doing some of the translating of the texts. He really encouraged me to study the Nag Hammed but to date I just haven't found the time; it is a monumental undertaking.

My introduction to the Archons was through John Nash's "Not In His Image" which was a real mind*@*@ as Reaver would say. Reading about the archons was a synchronicity moment as several months before I had done a San Pedro ceremony in Cuzco and had seen these ghost-like parasitic thingees dancing around inside my brain. At the time I had tried to find out what they were but "ghost-like brain parasites" just didn't find any good hits :)

So when I found the name "Archon" through Lash and started googling some more, I found Castaneda's "Predators"; thinking it was probably the most important thing that he had written about throughout all his books.

[peggy englebrake]

Teotwaiki, I first heard about the archons in the 1970ties reading Castaneda's books (in one book they were called "inorganic beings") but didn't research it much because I didn't see anything to do about it. Also busy at this time having my own Castenada experience. But that changed a couple of years ago. First the Ruiz books gave me a handle on how to take control of my head.
When I just started paying attention to all the junk inserted into my thoughts and learned to distinguish between my thoughts and something else, I was amazed I had been able to function at all with this negative crap trying to influence my thoughts. The archons are not the only players in this scenario. I don't know if you are aware of the energetic shift that is presently occurring (and if you are down in South America hanging out with any indiginous people you are). This will cause a shift in consciousness to a higher level, but Pachamama is making this shift with us. At the time this energy peaks and the earth's frequency increases to a certain level all the archons are gone; because they cannot exist at that frequency. We are supposed to be in a battle right now for the freedom of earth from these forces. Here is a referral to a short article about the archons (they call them chimera) and the history of their origins. This article is by Cobra (individual who is the leader of the resistance movement (us). His information is unique because he is Pleiadian. Go to "The Event Hub", then access Part 9:Fall of the Chimera. (Hope this wasn't too far out for you. I didn't even go into the aliens.)

[Reaver]

Have you ever found any evidence in support of the idea that this mind setting (flyer mind/their mind etc) is forced upon humanity by an alien/intrusive force or intelligence?
What kind of evidence are you referring to? If you talk about evidence provided by the "common 5 senses", then no, it's phenomenon rooted in the mind, others would say it's also an energetic one so something like science can't come up with any evidence.



I'm not asking for hard scientific evidence, but with a claim like this, a parasitical mind virus, I am just curious to know what is out there that gives it credit.
Especially since much if not all of the symptoms can also fit into the model (http://www.ericsteinhart.com/progress/HEGEL/HEGEL1.HTM) that Plato, Hegel and many other (as you rightfully mentioned) laid out.


There's a lot out there that points in such a direction. Thousands collected cases of reincarnation memories (http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm) that matched up with the facts, all life that seems to aim for evolution and more.

So my problem with the idea of a flyer mind (for the moment) is that it seems at odds with the theory of reincarnation in function of a growing soul (consciousness evolution).
I have to admit that I haven't spent much time into the flyer mind theory, but some common sense observations to give it credit would certainly help. ;)
For now, I can't think of any...

As for the reincarnation bit: Yeah apparently reincarnation does takes place, but I have an issue with the popular perception of it:

You mention people remembering past lives, frauds aside, why is that people assume that just because X person can recall events of the past then it necessarily means those events belong to their past life? They are just recalling memories, which could very well the memories of another individual entity which somehow sipped into the awareness of another individual and this new individual feels as if those memories (even if they are 100% verifiable) are theirs.

Then again how the Flyer and reincarnation are mutually exclusive? In an ironic act, the Flyer it like a whetstone to sharpen our awareness.

Also there are people who don't cultivate any meaningful awareness beyond their body and their persona/ego, so the eternal aspect of themselves in a sense goes to waste. I can only assume they get re-inserted into the matrix to try again:

v79lVNKthCw

[Reaver]

A parasite latches itself into specific parts of its host. Could it be that the parasitical flyer mind latches itself into the ego to nourish itself? maybe it can also latch unto other parts of ourselves.

3538F8dBuWQ

Notice how the man who was possesed says he feels as if someone torn out something from him then the Witcher goes on to say bonds between parasites and their hosts can be strong.

It has trickled down into our business language:

Contract Bond: it is a guaranty of faithful performance and fulfilment of all undertakings promised in a contract. A contract bond usually accompanies a payment bond {contracts with flyer minds imply surrendering our own?} which is a guaranty of the reimbursement of all labour and material costs incurred in case of a default.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Don Juan wrote:
People tell us from the time we are born that the world is such and such and so and so, and naturally we have no choice but to accept that the world is the way people have been telling us it is. For a sorcerer, reality, or the world we all know, is only a description, one that has been pounded into you from the moment you were born. The reality of our day-to-day life, then, consists of an endless flow of perceptual interpretations which we have learned to make in common. Things are ‘real’ only after one has learned to agree on their realness.
......
Again, we are perceivers. The world that we perceive, though, was created by a description that was told to us since the moment we were born. The world had to conform to its description; that is, the description reflects itself. We have learned to relate ourselves to our description of the world in terms of what sorcerers call habits of intentionality, that is, the property of human consciousness whereby an object is habitually referred to, or is habitually intended.

Question begs: If a 100 thousand people who understand these topics to a lesser or greater managed to get together to form a community which somehow managed to become isolated from the rest from the world... how would that look like? and I mean how would everything look like from their bodies to a simple rock? could they shape their reality as freely as one can shape a lucid dream? or would they still be under what we perceive to be Natural Law?

Notice the idea "we've been told a description of the word since birth". Obviously a new born is incapable of using spoken language as a means of communication besides the typical acts of instinct, so how the **** do you plant a description about the world on a newborn so that it sticks with them their whole life? this seems to be the original seed, every other programming would just be a means to make the seed stronger and create a series of self-perpetuating loops to sustain the flyer mind.

[TargeT]

Notice the idea "we've been told a description of the word since birth". Obviously a new born is incapable of using spoken language as a means of communication besides the typical acts of instinct, so how the **** do you plant a description about the world on a newborn so that it sticks with them their whole life? this seems to be the original seed, every other programming would just be a means to make the seed stronger and create a series of self-perpetuating loops to sustain the flyer mind.

If a picture is worth 1000 words, then what is a video worth... and ultimately, what is a 5 senses reality worth? a trillion words?

Language is the LEAST USED (and understood by the other party) form of communication.

Language is a divide and conquer tool in modern times as grammar is known by few and linguistic drift rules... everyone seems to have their own definition of words, and thus communication via spoken word is SEVERELY compromised.

I'd say a MUCH more pure form of information gathering is done by children, who have no filters in place yet to preconceive (though we help them out and give them those notions through our actions very early).



as for your village concept:
I don't think the Don is hinting at our ability to manifest reality however we choose, more that our understanding of reality is tainted & things are not as they seem.

[PurpleLama]

The human mind, the very personality we perceive our selves to have, is part and parcel of the world which DonJuan is referring to, it is a false descriptor which overlays the reality of ourselves, and it is their mind. Not understanding the mechanics of the mental realm, it's easy to look within and see your distinct self as a separate thing from the other mind which overtly interferes, but even so it is the subtler portion of that other which we mistakenly come to identify as our own. Its why the tricks of the enemy work so very well, even you yourself do not want to admit your own ego construct to be the other, but it's the bastion of the enemy. In truth all thought is a purely psychic phenomenon, and diffuse in nature, but the rushing torrent of an active intellect is addictive and our identification with it a trap.

Thanks for the thread, Reaver.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

No thought we have is actually ours, every thought that can be thunk existed before it passed through our little heads.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hence inspiration arrives more often as not as a complete and complex concept, not bit by bit and piece by piece do we assemble it, but the shape of the whole thing arrives just waiting for us to put it into our own words, to be articulated.

[PurpleLama]

What we are is far more subtle that which we would naturally characterize our selves to be, their mind needs only to be a little less subtle than that, which is how it deceives the developing mind as it grows through childhood.

[PurpleLama]

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a symbol is worth a thousand pictures.

[TargeT]

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a symbol is worth a thousand pictures.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NyweekGbqX4/SRY3yVYHg2I/AAAAAAAAAcU/1gpfD0DY5yA/s320/Logos.jpg

[PurpleLama]

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a symbol is worth a thousand pictures.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NyweekGbqX4/SRY3yVYHg2I/AAAAAAAAAcU/1gpfD0DY5yA/s320/Logos.jpg

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0322/2477/products/corp_flag_1024x1024.jpg?v=1448499510

I recall from many years ago in my esoteric studies, that in ancient Egypt red and white stripes denoted human sacrifice, specifically the sacrifice of virgins/innocents/children.

[sparrow7]

I recall from many years ago in my esoteric studies, that in ancient Egypt red and white stripes denoted human sacrifice, specifically the sacrifice of virgins/innocents/children

I hate this color combination, RED and WHITE. All the royal bloodline, if you look at English and European Royality they are all dressed in Red and White.

It is the color of the bloodliners.

A word of advice, there are those who advocate freedom, and searching for truth, but offer exactly the other, meaning lies and manipulation.

Check out David Icke forum and what theme it has, colors, and how the operators moderators from there blocked me because I talked bad about Lucifer.
I posted some things on who they are and my posts got deleted.
The forum there is crawling with manipulation to my opinion that practice occult spiritual practice to manipulate and hurt others.

Some people shouted that David is of the bloodliners, but others jumped in his defence to say "so what" he is doing a good job and he is not with them. So far so good.

But.....
............
They basicly painted the whole site Black Red & White and who ever tries to debunk what has been tossed around with "Lucifer is not Satan" gets his posts deleted.

Anyone showing that Lucifer is sort of Satan will get his posts deleted on the DI forum. I posted images, with quoted sources, and the whole story line, to get it all deleted. They act like luciferians

Luciferian flag is Black Red and White.

[norski]

Wow! Excellent post!

Lately, I have been really disturbed about the extent of manipulation of humans. Particularly insidious is the manipulation of people in the alternative community.

I've come to the personal realization that the manipulation is so accomplished it can not only shape channeled messages (which we all know) it seems to reach into the hypnotic trance of humans. I few weeks back I re-read several books by Delores Cannon. I also watched some of her videos. While her clients were speaking from a seemingly credible source, the subconscious, the messages relayed are not credible to me. Cannon's regression therapy led her to believe that all abductees have a soul contract whereby they consent to abuse. Implants are used as monitors of sorts to support the well being of humans. The ETs/IDs Cannon related to were almost all some variation of the grays. It's all too much sunshine and lollipops. I don't buy it.

If the subconscious of Cannon's patients is being manipulated, that reveals a level of control that is stunning.

In addition, the stories told by Cannon's patients are pretty creative. This flies in the face of the belief that controlling entities lack imagination and creativity. Indeed I think they are very creative. From old to new religions, the gods and dramas created are titilating and addictive to humans.

My point is that the degree of discernment necessary to overcome our programming needs to challenge every "truth" set forth.

[Reaver]

I've been coming across interesting remarks by Mouravieff and George Gurdjieff (Even tough I've only read half the book called Belzebub's tales to his grandson by Gurdjieff). Very interesting since (in Don Juan's terms) both use different descriptions to point towards the flyer mind.

Boris Mouravieff wrote:

""As long as man accepts the principle of the final annihilation of his Personality without a fight, he can carry on in life without attracting the increasing pressures of the General Law upon himself. {This sounds very similar to what Don Juan called the erasure of personal history and the fact that shamans jump over walls, they never destroy them}

"The case is totally different if he struggles to surpass the limits which it imposes. It acts simultaneously on several planes: physical, mental, and moral. Its action on the moral plane is conceived by man, since time immemorial, in the form of a personification: the Devil. {this reminds me of the notion of shape-shifting, which apparently can also be psychic elements taking material form on the outside world -obstacles which ultimately reflect an inner state- this is more than anthropomorphizing just being a mere allegory, it's actual materialization of the psyche}

"In the orthodox Tradition demonology occupies a considerable place. We find there practical constatations, fine and profound observations on the highly sophisticated and insidious forms that the Devil's action takes in very varied circumstances, in which it goes as far as using the good faith of humans for its own ends. {Indeed, this is what I've been trying to hammer down on people's head on the forums, to little avail. The flyer mind will use anything, including Truth and Goodness to perpetuate itself, morality is nothing more than a clever trap lay out by the parasite}

"We will also find precious advice, based on accumulated experience over the ages, which is particularly helpful to students of esoteric science; because once the first positive results are obtained those students will unmistakably run up against the active opposition to the law and the GAME OF THE CRAFTY ONE.

"It must be realized that in placing himself under the aegis of the Law of Exception, man goes against the General Law, which he is even called upon to overthrow, if only on an individual scale. He must not forget--under penalty of 'surprise attack'--the salvation depends on victory over the Devil, which as we have said, is the personalized moral aspect of the General Law. This is so, even though this, being a cosmic law, is naturally a divine law. One must not be afraid, as the Law of Exception is also a divine law. In choosing it, man continues to serve the interests of the whole, but differently and in an incomparably more efficient manner. During his fight against the first law, he is subject to tests that often take the form of temptations{We need to be careful here not to project the classical moralistic notions of what Temptation is, less we get caught in the description which has been fed to us; looking beyond the common human perception, I think Temptation is also the obsession to perform Good Deeds or show Good Behaviour (not talking about obediecne as such, even though we could easily insert that variable), what we fail to notice is that is a trap by the Flyers; since this behaviour is heavily rooted in approval (I don't care if it actually helps another person) then it becomes a mechanism to reinsert the subject back into the description of the world.}

In orthodox Doctrine deep studies are devoted to this theme, As stated above, they contain precious advice of a practical nature, details of which we cannot cover in this present book. We are however permitted to draw attention to the indirect nature of the diabolical action. If, aiming straight towards his goal, which is liberation and salvation {Don Juan's Freedom and striving for infinity put in what seems to be esoteric Christianity}, the seeker successfully overcomes the obstacles and by this shows proof of a strength that would permit him to defy the authority of the General Law {A show of Don Juan's unbending Will?}, the latter will begin to act upon him indirectly, generally by the mediation of his near ones if they do not follow the same path: this action occurs on the moral plane, and often takes emotional forms appealing to his most noble, generous, and disinterested sentiments: to his charity; his obligations; his pity. {I can't stress enough the importance of this bit, I'll write on it on a separate post} It impels him down blind alleys, insinuating that he will be returning to his duty, that by so doing he will go on walking in the right path, etc. This will clarify the profound saying of Jesus that: 'A man's worst enemies are those of his own household.' {Almost like the Agents in the Matrix who shape-shift}

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

“People are machines. Machines have to be blind and unconscious, they cannot be otherwise, and all their actions have to correspond to their nature. Everything happens. No one does anything. ‘Progress’ and ‘civilization,’ in the real meaning of these words, can appear only as the result of conscious efforts. They cannot appear as the result of unconscious mechanical actions.

And what conscious effort can there be in machines? And if one machine is unconscious, then a hundred machines are unconscious, and so are a thousand machines, or a hundred thousand, or a million. And the unconscious activity of a million machines must necessarily result in destruction and extermination. It is precisely in unconscious involuntary manifestations that all evil lies. You do not yet understand and cannot imagine all the results of this evil. But the time will come when you will understand.”

~ G. I. Gurdjieff, In Search of The Miraculous

I don't think Gurdjieff was referring to Evil as the common moral description of it, he was rather pointing to the consequences unconscious thoughts and actions brought upon Man and the World, and just like Don Juan, he talked about something else pushing us towards this "Evil"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gurdjieff said:

"How should evolution be understood?"

"The evolution of man," Gurdjieff replied, "can be taken as the development in him of those powers and possibilities which never develop by themselves, that is, mechanically. Only this kind of development, only this kind of growth, marks the real evolution of man. There is, and there can be, no other kind of evolution whatsoever.

"We have before us man at the present moment of his development. Nature has made him such as he is, and, in large masses, so far as we can see, such he will remain. Changes likely to violate the general requirements of nature can only take place in separate units.

"In order to understand the law of man's evolution it is necessary to grasp that, beyond a certain point, this evolution is not at all necessary, that is to say, it is not necessary for nature at a given moment in its own development. To speak more precisely: the evolution of mankind corresponds to the evolution of the planets, but the evolution of the planets proceeds, for us, in infinitely prolonged cycles of time. Throughout the stretch of time that human thought can embrace, no essential changes can take place in the life of the planets, and, consequently, no essential changes can take place in the life of mankind.

"Humanity neither progresses nor evolves. What seems to us to be progress or evolution is a partial modification which can be immediately counterbalanced by a corresponding modification in an opposite direction. {sounds like Don Juan's teachings}
"Humanity, like the rest of organic life, exists on earth for the needs and purposes of the earth. And it is exactly as it should be for the earth's requirements at the present time.

"Only thought as theoretical and as far removed from fact as modem European thought could have conceived the evolution of man to be possible apart from surrounding nature, or have regarded the evolution of man as a gradual conquest of nature. This is quite impossible. In living, in dying, in evolving, in degenerating, man equally serves the purposes of nature—or, rather, nature makes equal use, though perhaps for different purposes, of the products of both evolution and degeneration. And, at the same time, humanity as a whole can never escape from nature, for, even in struggling against nature man acts in conformity with her purposes. The evolution of large masses of humanity is opposed to nature's purposes. The evolution of a certain small percentage may be in accord with nature's purposes. Man contains within him the possibility of evolution. But the evolution of humanity as a whole, that is, the development of these possibilities in all men, or in most of them, or even in a large number of them, is not necessary for the purposes of the earth or of the planetary world in general, and it might, in fact, be injurious or fatal. There exist, therefore, special forces (of a planetary character) which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity and keep it at the level it ought, to be. {Man, this paragraph opens a hugeeeee can of worms}

"For instance, the evolution of humanity beyond a certain point, or, to speak more correctly, above a certain percentage, would be fatal for the moon. The moon at present feeds on organic life, on humanity. Humanity is a part of organic life; this means that humanity is food for the moon. If all men were to become too intelligent they would not want to be eaten by the moon. {Lunar cults and lunatics}

"But, at the same time, possibilities of evolution exist, and they may be developed in separate individuals with the help of appropriate knowledge and methods. Such development can take place only in the interests of the man himself against, so to speak, the interests and forces of the motorcar, or an aeroplane, and that incompetent handling of the human machine is just as dangerous as incompetent handling of any other complex machine.

Everybody understands this in relation to an aeroplane, a motorcar, or a railway engine. But it is very rarely that anyone takes this into account in relation to man in general or to himself in particular. It is considered right and legitimate to think that nature has given men the necessary knowledge of their machine. And yet men understand that an instinctive knowledge of the machine is by no means enough. Why do they study medicine and make use of its services? Because, of course, they realize they do not know their machine. But they do not suspect that it can be known much better than science knows it; they do not suspect that then it would be possible to get quite different work out of it."

[TargeT]

Can Mind Flyers be controlled /abated through supplements/nutrition/drugs?



Scientists find key to unwanted thoughts
Have you ever wanted to stop ruminating on something and just been unable to?

Scientists could have the secret. They have identified a chemical in the brain's "memory" region that allows us to suppress unwanted thoughts.

The discovery may help explain why some people can't shift persistent intrusive thoughts - a common symptom of anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression and schizophrenia.

Researchers say controlling our thoughts is "fundamental to wellbeing".
Associated words

Prof Michael Anderson, from the University of Cambridge, who conducted the study, said: "When this capacity breaks down, it causes some of the most debilitating symptoms of psychiatric diseases - intrusive memories, images, hallucinations, ruminations, and pathological and persistent worries."

Participants were asked to learn to associate a series of words with a paired, but otherwise unconnected, word - for example ordeal/roach and moss/north.

After this, they had to respond to either a red or green signal. If it was green, they were expected to recall the associated word but if it was red, they were asked to stop themselves from doing so.

Their brains were monitored using both functional magnetic resonance imaging (FMRI), which detects changes in blood flow, and magnetic resonance spectroscopy, which measures chemical changes in the brain.
Researchers found a particular chemical, or neurotransmitter, known as Gaba, held the key.

Gaba is the brain's main "inhibitory" neurotransmitter. That means, when it's released by one nerve cell it suppresses the activities of other cells to which it is connected.

They found people who had the highest concentrations of Gaba in their brain's hippocampus (or memory hub) were best at blocking unwanted thoughts or memories.

"What's exciting about this is that now we're getting very specific," said Prof Anderson.

"Before, we could only say 'this part of the brain acts on that part', but now we can say which neurotransmitters are likely to be important."
New approaches to treatment

The discovery might shed light on a number of conditions, from schizophrenia to PTSD, in which sufferers have a pathological inability to control thoughts - such as excessive worrying or rumination.

Prof Anderson believes the findings could offer a new approach to treating these disorders. "Most of the focus has been on improving functioning of the prefrontal cortex," he said.

"Our study suggests that if you could improve Gaba activity within the hippocampus, this may help people to stop unwanted and intrusive thoughts."
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-41847030

[petra]

Can Mind Flyers be controlled /abated through supplements/nutrition/drugs?

That might depend on the case? My brother has schizophrenia, and the voices told him not to smoke cigarettes. Then they told him it's OK to smoke. Then they told him not to again. It's really juvenile.... and suspicious.

He's smoking cigarettes again now (the voices will let him), but NOT pot. He quit marijuana because he's certain it's doing the opposite of helping.

In my case, pot helps straighten my thoughts, but other times it makes them worse. I read an article recently about pot effects which refers to GABA too, and thinking about quitting, just haven't made my mind up yet. The title says your brain can change on a "cellular level" https://www.inverse.com/article/37438-long-term-marijuana-effects-brain

[TargeT]

Can Mind Flyers be controlled /abated through supplements/nutrition/drugs?

That might depend on the case? My brother has schizophrenia, and the voices told him not to smoke cigarettes. Then they told him it's OK to smoke. Then they told him not to again. It's really juvenile.... and suspicious.

I would imagine for an extra dimensional entity that not only feeds off us but is envious and despises us (my understanding from what I've read anyway); certain juvenile, insulting behavior is to be expected... (aka they are "f**king with us")




In my case, pot helps straighten my thoughts, but other times it makes them worse. I read an article recently about pot effects which refers to GABA too, and thinking about quitting, just haven't made my mind up yet. The title says your brain can change on a "cellular level" https://www.inverse.com/article/37438-long-term-marijuana-effects-brain

long term cellphones use changes the physical make up of your brain (https://www.myhealthwire.com/news/mind-body/961)... so does long term exposure to anything really.

we are highly adaptive, that is certainly one of the commonalities found in humans (both mentally and physically).

The key to EVERYTHING in life, is moderation.

Heavy cannabis users learn this and often practice "Tbreaks" (Tolerance breaks) where the individual stops consuming THC for a period of a week to a month to reset the body's built up tolerance to THC's effects. This is a very common pattern in nature (though there are some exceptions, Salvia for example has a "reverse tolerance", the more you use it the more it effects you).

I used to take gaba supplements but it was for sleep (https://www.cognitune.com/gaba-for-sleep/) (and it would give me some pretty crazy vivid dreams)


I'm wondering if manipulating things in our dimension can effect their ability to manipulate us, seems logical; and the best place to start would be our mind I would think. Perhaps this is a good tool, I've always found the ability to silence the inner monologue (which I consider to be the mind flyers, NOT me, I don't need to talk to myself in my own head.... it's redundant) to be EXTREMELY helpful.

[DNA]

It also has to be understood that the exploration of the artificial mind is NOT about suppressing/killing emotions, in fact doing so only feeds it, rather it is about keeping one's emotions in check. You accomplish it by putting your own emotions under the lens of your mind to gain a deeper understanding of the human psyche (well that's one of the methods anyway).

As it has been stated: "Their mind" takes over a person's psyche and implants a behavioural simulacra. Based on my own experience with it, I'd say this psychological virus makes use of very subtle mechanisms to take over. The damage done to the person varies in degree.

The most disturbing aspect of it is the fact that the artificial psyche goes on self-replicating without much opposition. It is normal, familiar and in its insanity it provides people with a lot of emotional security. A toxic emotional security that is. Some people can become extremely anxious in social situations, other people become anxious by being alone. Some people can become extremely sadistic, some become masochistic. The permutations and degrees of severity of this phenomenon are too many to list.

Again, in no way is this "philosophy" telling people to become emotionless droids. Rather it is telling people to watch out for this virus so that it can be sterilized and the Authentic Psyche can unfold.

Oh and the interactions with "their mind" are far from being pretty.


Greetings Reaver, I see you have put some time and thought into this.
This topic is near and dear to my heart. I've been into Castaneda since a kid, I appeared at a seminar with Florinda Donnar, Taisha Abelar and the Chacmools when I was 20, an off the grid seminar they held in the forest of central AZ right off the rim of Payson Az.
I've been practicing the methods in Castaneda's work and I've experienced some amazing results, one of which was an ability to see into the etheric as documented here, How To See A Ghost For Yourself (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21695-How-To-See-A-Ghost-For-Yourself) .
Another thread I've started that might be of interest to you is this one. 'Skyfish' of NASA tether incident Don Juan's 'mudshadows'? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?36535-Skyfish-of-NASA-tether-incident-Don-Juan-s-mudshadows)
I think you are on to something with this post here.
I feel I'm all alone in the world in terms of understanding this subject with a slant on simplifying the topic to the point of easy digestion for all.
According to luck/serendipity and or a combination of both I've stumbled on to the MICHAEL TEACHINGS as penned by Chlesea Quin Yarbro (accept no imitations).
In her work it is conveyed that mankind is fed on by life forms that come in one of seven flavors.

Key to the Chief Features:
1. Self-destruction
2. Greed
3. Self-deprecation
4. Arrogance
5. Martyrdom
6. Impatience 7. Stubbornness



It is my absolute agreement that indeed the fliers only have seven main routes they use to drain humans of energy, and that if you study these seven chief features you grow to recognize your own chief feature and that of others as well. This chief feature is all but undeafetable in terms of it's presense in your mind, the amount of effort it would take to dislodge it are reminiscent of Castaneda's discriptions of imbecability and Taoist monks living in caves making this focus their life's work to the exclusion of all else including that of friends, family and love.

Defeating the flier/archon/mudshadow in one self is so difficult it is why I have chosen the Edgar Cayce quote in my tag line. It is that much of a monstrous task, to do so places one along the lines of the great avatars we have falsely built religions around.

[petra]

I'm wondering if manipulating things in our dimension can effect their ability to manipulate us, seems logical; and the best place to start would be our mind I would think. Perhaps this is a good tool, I've always found the ability to silence the inner monologue (which I consider to be the mind flyers, NOT me, I don't need to talk to myself in my own head.... it's redundant) to be EXTREMELY helpful.

Hmm, I'm almost always talking to myself in my head... it's most noticeable when I am alone though. It hasn't always been this way, only since about 2 years ago. I've become accustomed to it now, and I can't imagine being any other way. I'm still suspicious as ever though, so far my "other self" hasn't said anything mean to me. SO FAR.

I recall saying to my brother "Why can't you just tell the voices to F off?" and I'll never forget the look he gave me. It was like "how dare you even suggest that?" kind of look.

I think it's the manipulation of feelings that's the worst. When I first heard of the "Alien love bite" phenomena that was the tip of the ice berg for me.

[Kasia KHTH]

I wonder why the Main Square genre that loves the virtue of faith and love.....Claiming that he knows it perfectly....It is possible to lead the enemies of values that they themselves profess.....he is silent or does not see evil. That's what woke me up two months ago. Inconsistency of the world. Inconsistency of history and religion. It's weird and suspicious. So I decided to become God for my mind. I forced myself to look and think. Because that is my conscious will

[Mark]

Three great and comprehensive threads - in addition to DNA's link - on this topic here in PA. The second, in particular, holds a lot of really relevant information, the third spans a lot of information as well.

Parasitic Non-Organic Multidimensional Beings (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?21614-Parasitic-Non-Organic-Multidimensional-Beings)

Their Mind and the Emotional Matrix that we create with it. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?54217-Their-Mind-and-the-Emotional-Matrix-that-we-create-with-it.)

Horus-Ra as the Archontic Alien Parasite: A follow-up interview with Maarit (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?40941-Horus-Ra-as-the-Archontic-Alien-Parasite-A-follow-up-interview-with-Maarit/page175)